**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 06 02:59:57 2009
Mar 06 03:05:45 <KaraDog> <FilipLinux4> I just mention your patch for kernel 2.6.28 here: http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/4.4.3/. Please tell me whether you want to remove it.
Mar 06 03:08:04 <KaraDog> I just finished a QTextende 4.4.3 release rootfs image. Please try it http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/4.4.3/
Mar 06 03:27:12 <lpotter> cool
Mar 06 03:32:41 <KaraDog> hi, potter
Mar 06 03:38:25 <Hydrant> hey all... does gprs work with qtopia on the freerunner?
Mar 06 03:47:48 <KaraDog> Haven't try. But seems to be working
Mar 06 03:59:51 <lpotter> geez freerunner flashing is painfully slow
Mar 06 04:15:13 <lpotter> nedd more themes
Mar 06 04:15:15 <lpotter> need
Mar 06 04:37:58 <KaraDog> Got the freerunner working??
Mar 06 04:44:06 <lpotter> seems to work.
Mar 06 04:50:06 <KaraDog> Actually I did not see any improvement in 4.4.3
Mar 06 04:50:28 <lpotter> thats because we shifted gears
Mar 06 04:51:52 <lpotter> there were bugs fixed in 4.4.3
Mar 06 04:52:07 <KaraDog> Of course indeed....
Mar 06 04:52:10 <KaraDog> hehe
Mar 06 04:53:10 <KaraDog> but hard to show the difference.
Mar 06 04:53:45 <KaraDog> I like qtextended because it looks like a phone application more than FSO
Mar 06 04:53:52 <KaraDog> hehe
Mar 06 04:57:37 <lpotter> :)
Mar 06 04:57:51 <lpotter> too bad the OM hardware sucks
Mar 06 04:58:53 <KaraDog> yes... it's slow..... I hope GTA03 will be better
Mar 06 04:59:20 <lpotter> heh
Mar 06 04:59:31 <lpotter> gta02 was supposed to be better
Mar 06 05:00:38 <KaraDog> do you know anyone is doing or willing to do improvement on qtextended?
Mar 06 05:01:02 <lpotter> me... when I have time :)
Mar 06 05:01:19 <lpotter> the htc-linux guys use it as well
Mar 06 05:01:59 <lpotter> I will try and update the git repo this weekend
Mar 06 05:02:42 <KaraDog> OK. looking forward to the new repository. then we could do further improvement?
Mar 06 05:03:50 <lpotter> sure, well. the git repo exists now....
Mar 06 05:03:56 <lpotter> just doesnt have 4.4.3
Mar 06 05:04:24 <KaraDog> yes... hehe..
Mar 06 05:05:30 <KaraDog> for those htc-linux guys you just mentioned, do you mean that qtextended can be run on a specific htc device?
Mar 06 05:05:47 <lpotter> yes 
Mar 06 05:05:57 <KaraDog> which model?
Mar 06 05:06:55 <lpotter> several
Mar 06 05:07:19 <lpotter> looking for the url. you can join #htc-linux as well
Mar 06 05:07:45 <lpotter> here's one http://linuxtogo.org/~htcpxa/htcuniversal/index.html
Mar 06 05:08:33 <KaraDog> all right, having a look
Mar 06 05:12:36 <lpotter> http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Xanadux
Mar 06 05:31:55 <KaraDog> hehe, many interesting projects
Mar 06 07:26:05 <ColdFyre> so qwhere is 4.4.3? :)
Mar 06 07:35:25 <FilipLinux4> morning 
Mar 06 07:35:49 <aj1911> gm
Mar 06 07:35:59 <aj1911> ;)
Mar 06 07:36:03 <aj1911> :)
Mar 06 07:40:30 <KaraDog> hi FilipLinux4
Mar 06 07:44:17 <FilipLinux4> hi KaraDog
Mar 06 07:45:20 <KaraDog>  I just mention your patch for kernel 2.6.28 here: http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/4.4.3/. Please tell me whether you want to remove it.
Mar 06 07:49:10 <FilipLinux4> no prob, I just updated the wiki: http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/4.4.3/
Mar 06 07:49:24 <FilipLinux4> did you try the latest on a .28 kernel ?
Mar 06 07:49:48 <KaraDog> not yet. I will do it after work today.
Mar 06 07:54:38 <FilipLinux4> any idea on what version (FSO or other) has a stable .28 version to take as a starting point ?
Mar 06 07:56:39 <KaraDog> I will try daily build of openmoko then the FSO m5.1
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 06 16:41:29 2009
Mar 06 20:22:46 <BluesLee> Serdar: ping
Mar 06 20:24:24 <BluesLee> lpotter: ping
Mar 06 20:28:27 <ColdFyre> PONG
Mar 06 20:29:23 <BluesLee> ?? who r u?
Mar 06 20:36:08 <ljp> pong
Mar 06 20:41:10 <mwester> sproing!
Mar 06 20:50:20 <BluesLee> ljp: hi, are there any new freerunner images out there?
Mar 06 20:50:37 <BluesLee> any plans?
Mar 06 21:08:01 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qt_Extended_4.4.3 
Mar 06 21:08:27 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: and http://dashi-x02.karadog.net/~lihouyu/qtextended/4.4.3/
Mar 06 21:08:49 <chouimat|work> still no 2.6.28 :)
Mar 06 21:09:13 <FilipLinuxBE> chouimat: I'm using it on top of 2.6.28 / 2.6.29
Mar 06 21:09:28 <chouimat|work> I mean an image :)
Mar 06 21:09:50 <FilipLinuxBE> there is a binary tarball for .28
Mar 06 21:10:32 <FilipLinuxBE> I still have issues with >=2.6.28 with regarss to usbgadget
Mar 06 21:11:06 <chouimat|work> so I simply use the fso-console with .28 and untar the binary over? I just want to be able to maek phone call (for now)
Mar 06 21:11:25 <FilipLinuxBE> detection of connect/disconnect usb is not reliable. As a result the FR sometimes thinks it still on battery (and thus suspends) when on usb, and vica versa. 
Mar 06 21:12:23 <FilipLinuxBE> I use it on my FR, and can make phonecalls. I modified the 'acquire ssh key' script in the dev menu to do a 'apm -s' to force a suspen
Mar 06 21:15:13 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: will QtSoftware/Nokia   host a software repository (git) ? or do we need to start looking for alternatives ?
Mar 06 21:17:21 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: and what about the name ? QtSoftware/Nokia holds trademarks on both Qtopia and QtExtended...
Mar 06 21:18:10 <mwester> AFAIK, Trolltech/Nokia never did host a software repo for us normal OSS devs; we just got snapshots with no history. :(
Mar 06 21:22:45 <FilipLinuxBE> mwester: indeed, they never did. But I thought I read somewhere recently they are planning to do so for Qt 
Mar 06 21:23:45 <ljp> we are
Mar 06 21:23:54 <ljp> we are working on the implementation 
Mar 06 21:24:35 <mwester> I think it's a pivotal difference between what's really "open" software development, and what's just licensed with an "open" style license.   The snapshots were useful, but without the history to explain why things changed, one had to spend a lot time reverse-engineering each change to see what it fixed, if anything.
Mar 06 21:26:55 <FilipLinuxBE> agree 100%. and not only about changes that happened before, but also the road ahead was not open
Mar 06 21:27:33 <FilipLinuxBE> but a repo hosted by Qt/Nokia would be benficial for both:
Mar 06 21:28:05 <FilipLinuxBE> low effort for Nokia, still showing commitment, but above all no tricky trademark issues
Mar 06 21:28:48 <ljp> there is always trademark issues
Mar 06 21:28:53 <FilipLinuxBE> if we want to host a git elsewhere, I'm not sure at all we can do it using the current name as it is trademarked. And it is even more complicated
Mar 06 21:29:43 <FilipLinuxBE> in fact, Nokia *has* to enforce its tm . If not, they might loose all rights on it afterwards
Mar 06 21:29:51 <mwester> As long as we let lawyers live, there will ALWAYs be some sort of trouble around any sort of activity, and trademarks attract lawyers like cheese attracts mice.
Mar 06 21:30:16 <FilipLinuxBE> lawyers are the only people that always win
Mar 06 21:30:37 <mwester> The solution is obvious - get rid of lawyers.  But since that won't ever happen, we'll just have keep them at bay.  Garlic, silver bullets, and wooden stakes are good, I hear.
Mar 06 21:30:41 <FilipLinuxBE> but if Nokia hosts the git, there won't be a tm issue on that part. 
Mar 06 21:30:46 <FilipLinuxBE> lo
Mar 06 21:31:14 <FilipLinuxBE> so we'll have to take the RedHat/CentOS road
Mar 06 21:32:07 <mwester> Yes, if Nokia will permit that -- to the credit of RedHat they have been fairly open with the history and full commit logs of the changes they make.
Mar 06 21:33:11 <ljp> I think Nokia wouldnt go after any non commercial endevours
Mar 06 21:33:49 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: not sure. They might have to. I've seen the Palm case in the past (more 10 years ago already ?) .
Mar 06 21:34:35 <FilipLinuxBE> I'll have to check my mail archive, but way back Palm allowed any name for 3rd party software.
Mar 06 21:35:25 <FilipLinuxBE> and then suddenly, they wanted every 3rd party having the name 'palm' in their name to change it. They even helped looking for other names and aking the changes.
Mar 06 21:36:01 <FilipLinuxBE> reason was legal: if they did not enforce their TM on all fronts, they would have a hard time defending their TM in any other court-case afterwards
Mar 06 21:36:46 <FilipLinuxBE> rendering their TM worthless
Mar 06 21:38:42 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: in which image echo supression patch is included?
Mar 06 21:39:10 <BluesLee> or is it the next step?
Mar 06 21:39:44 <BluesLee> at least with the newest kernl...
Mar 06 21:40:49 <BluesLee> if i understand it right the aim is qt on fso basis + kernel 2.6.28?
Mar 06 21:41:22 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: unless Nokia is willing to provide a royalty free license 
Mar 06 21:43:10 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: what does your patch fix exactly?
Mar 06 21:44:49 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: echo: not sure,should check with KaraDog, he made the binaries
Mar 06 21:45:21 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: my patch: kernel > 2.6.28 sysfs changes (new paths for brightness, battery, usb)
Mar 06 21:45:43 <BluesLee> okay
Mar 06 21:46:44 <BluesLee> echo fix isnt included 
Mar 06 21:46:52 <FilipLinuxBE> not in my patch
Mar 06 21:47:08 <FilipLinuxBE> that's why we need a repo ;-)
Mar 06 21:47:09 <BluesLee> and not by karadog
Mar 06 21:47:17 <BluesLee> he says: 
Mar 06 21:47:17 <BluesLee> Problems to be fixed next step:
Mar 06 21:47:17 <BluesLee> 1. Make "Power Management" correct and stable
Mar 06 21:47:17 <BluesLee> 2. Apply patch for "ECHO" suppression
Mar 06 21:47:23 <BluesLee> 3. Make "Internet" setting GUI more usable
Mar 06 21:47:28 <FilipLinuxBE> to make sure we don't have to keep applying the same patches over and over
Mar 06 21:47:40 <jreznik> BluesLee: +1
Mar 06 21:48:07 <BluesLee> jreznik: hi ... why +1?
Mar 06 21:48:33 <mwester> Or re-creating the patches over and over -- I also made a set of patches to the sysfs paths.
Mar 06 21:48:37 <FilipLinuxBE> and a tracker, to keep track og there  issues 
Mar 06 21:48:41 <jreznik> Power management is more job for OpenMoko guys than QtE
Mar 06 21:48:46 <mwester> (and fixed a strange bug with the battery status handling)
Mar 06 21:48:52 <jreznik> BluesLee: why? I vote for!
Mar 06 21:50:06 <BluesLee> jreznik: :-) what about X in a box within qtextended, afaik you did some work on that ...
Mar 06 21:50:37 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: could you be the 'chinese volunteer' to check this with Nokia ? 
Mar 06 21:51:42 <BluesLee> and what about the missing app feed?
Mar 06 21:51:42 <jreznik> BluesLee: it's workin, only tricky to set up - it needs image with X... only what's missing is GUI to run apps easily... it's only xvnc server + vnc client
Mar 06 21:52:00 <BluesLee> speed?
Mar 06 21:52:38 <FilipLinuxBE> I think we need to agree on a single 'master' repo , and avoid any further fragmentation. 
Mar 06 21:53:28 <FilipLinuxBE> app feed: not too hard, just need some webspace and is rather low volume (for today's standards).  is easy 
Mar 06 21:54:41 <jreznik> but we need some support infrastructure - manually uploading packages when more users have access...
Mar 06 21:55:13 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: i dont say that it is hard ... but most of the time there was/is no feed and i wonder why ...
Mar 06 21:55:53 <BluesLee> i guess there are about 15-25 apps out there which we could compile
Mar 06 21:56:08 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: as I see it, ownership issue. Looks like Nokia made the decision to stop QtE some time ago,
Mar 06 21:57:35 <FilipLinuxBE> I can provide webspace for a feed, with write access for anyone interested. And preferrably all build using the same source
Mar 06 21:58:09 <BluesLee> okay, mainly nokia is interested in qt
Mar 06 21:59:09 <FilipLinuxBE> in the past there was no single master source used by all. That's why we need one single repo wich include all patches
Mar 06 21:59:25 <BluesLee> so it would make sense to drop qte or integrate it
Mar 06 21:59:44 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: yes
Mar 06 22:01:07 <FilipLinuxBE> and not to forget that QtE is also running on other targets (like N8x0)
Mar 06 22:02:31 <BluesLee> but there is less community activity compared to other distros  ...
Mar 06 22:02:57 * chouimat|work would like a QtE firmware on his nokia
Mar 06 22:03:01 <chouimat|work> n800
Mar 06 22:03:40 <FilipLinuxBE> I think that was partially cause by the closed development by Nokia. It was not trivial to contribute , not easy to find out what Nokia was working on. 
Mar 06 22:03:42 <ljp> an n800 qte would not be very integrated with the hardware
Mar 06 22:03:55 <FilipLinuxBE> It was ifact closed source development with an open license
Mar 06 22:04:31 <jreznik> but still thanks for open license
Mar 06 22:04:37 <FilipLinuxBE> sure
Mar 06 22:04:37 <chouimat|work> or on his beagle
Mar 06 22:05:02 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: I  think there should be no close integration with hardware on any device
Mar 06 22:05:44 <BluesLee> now its dropped by nokia and there is a big question concerning open source development ...
Mar 06 22:06:30 <BluesLee> i dont know what the guys/devs at least from the neo corner think
Mar 06 22:07:35 <ljp> well, now qtex development is completely open
Mar 06 22:07:45 <FilipLinuxBE> I'm still uing QtE on my FR. I still think its the most polished solution for the FR, in terms of speed/snapiness , reliability, battery life, close to 'finished product'
Mar 06 22:08:15 <BluesLee> i agree 
Mar 06 22:08:26 <BluesLee> but i miss apps
Mar 06 22:08:41 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: 'qtex' is not trademarked, is it ?
Mar 06 22:08:58 <FilipLinuxBE> or would it be a too-close match ?
Mar 06 22:09:31 <FilipLinuxBE> or could you convince the finish folks to donate the no longer used 'qtopia' tm ?
Mar 06 22:09:31 <BluesLee> the browser is limited, there is no "default" gps app like tangogps and so on
Mar 06 22:09:37 * chouimat|work wonders how hard it would to get it working under qt4.5
Mar 06 22:09:57 <BluesLee> hey, its only a name
Mar 06 22:10:10 <ljp> qtopia is still used. Its a gay bar in LA
Mar 06 22:10:11 <BluesLee> that shouldnt be a problem
Mar 06 22:10:17 <FilipLinuxBE> webkit is an excellent starting base
Mar 06 22:10:59 <FilipLinuxBE> and Navit should not be too hard to port to Qt; it has already been partially done
Mar 06 22:11:22 <BluesLee> but you see on the other hand there are many alternatives: from dillo, minimo and whatever they are called
Mar 06 22:11:46 * chouimat|work goes back to see if his changes can be ported to 5 differents arch, 2 differents os release and across 3 differents products ...
Mar 06 22:14:30 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: its not only the os which decides about a big community, also the number of available apps, the users need them to play with their toy
Mar 06 22:15:47 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: agree, especially for PC's. But for Phone/PDA choices are very limited. 
Mar 06 22:16:41 <BluesLee> dont say that, i am jumping between shr mainly to qte, android, sometimes fso and debian
Mar 06 22:16:43 <FilipLinuxBE> I'm convinced when we can fix a few minor issues on the current qtex base + improve webkit and port a GPS app (navit? )
Mar 06 22:17:10 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: roadmap is a good choice here
Mar 06 22:17:12 <FilipLinuxBE> qtex will be by far the most usable solution for FR.
Mar 06 22:17:36 <FilipLinuxBE> BluesLee: but why are you switching all the time ? because there is no real good solution ?
Mar 06 22:17:40 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: with the help of tsdogs i compiled it some time ago
Mar 06 22:18:42 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: i am a buzz sufferer ... remembers me of buffalo soldier:-)
Mar 06 22:18:50 <FilipLinuxBE> I had roadmap working on qt as well , but navit has a couple of advantages (like commercial maps, roadmap is too limited ), routing, ...
Mar 06 22:19:20 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: so i decided not to use the neo on a daily basis some months ago
Mar 06 22:19:39 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: still waiting for a decision of om on the buzz fix
Mar 06 22:19:55 <BluesLee> FilipLinuxBE: so i am trying out this and that from time to time
Mar 06 22:20:14 <tsdogs> FilipLinuxBE: fyi, routing is beeing worked on in roadmap, but it's far from complete.
Mar 06 22:20:45 <FilipLinuxBE> even better; having choice between roadmap & navit
Mar 06 22:20:55 <BluesLee> routing is not so important and i know a lot of neo users who are satisfied with tango and do not use navit
Mar 06 22:21:04 <tsdogs> btw, I also asked on navit if they were interested in a qt port (for the interface) but nobody answered.
Mar 06 22:21:14 <ljp> '\
Mar 06 22:21:53 <ColdFyre> 4.4.3? :D
Mar 06 22:21:53 <FilipLinuxBE> and for most apps, if there is some kind o fsplit/layering between peresentation and business logic porting to Qt is feasable with reasonable effort
Mar 06 22:22:01 <tsdogs> I had a start on doing it, as there is already the rendering part, but it kind of a hack imho, which makes porting to qt interface dificult
Mar 06 22:25:48 <FilipLinuxBE> ljp: do you feel like checking the tm aspect, and the willingness within Nokia to facilitate opensource development ? 
Mar 06 22:26:52 <FilipLinuxBE> I'm a licensed commercial Qt developer as well, so I can also open a ticket and ask these questions on an 'offical' way
Mar 06 22:28:51 <FilipLinuxBE> or do you think we should just pick  a new name and start setting it up on our own ?
Mar 06 22:30:08 <FilipLinuxBE> mwester: what's your opinion ? You provided valuable patches and binaries in the past. 
Mar 06 22:49:27 <ljp>  a new name would certainly distinguish it
Mar 06 22:52:40 <ljp> I was going to use SHE - Sky Handheld Environment for an Opie fork. I even setup a sf project. :)
Mar 06 22:58:27 <FilipLinuxBE> or antheld
Mar 06 23:05:21 <ljp> how about aipotq
Mar 06 23:05:55 <FilipLinuxBE> think apple is not going to like the phonetic 'ipot' part of it
Mar 06 23:06:54 <chouimat|work> 'idiot' sound nice 
Mar 06 23:07:11 <chouimat|work> :D
Mar 06 23:07:21 <ljp> thats Qidiot
Mar 06 23:07:25 <FilipLinuxBE> lol
Mar 06 23:08:19 * chouimat|work is tired of babysitting this rpm
Mar 06 23:11:02 <chouimat|work> ok time to go to the pub
Mar 07 00:56:55 <KaraDog> good morning
Mar 07 01:03:32 <FilipLinuxBE> good night ;-)
Mar 07 01:03:36 <FilipLinuxBE> 2AM
Mar 07 01:05:53 <FilipLinuxBE> cu later
Mar 07 01:27:02 <Ko_deZ> Hi all. Long time since the last image for the Freerunner. Anything going on here?
Mar 07 01:27:36 <Ko_deZ> I guess something is going on, what I meant was, is a new image being released soon?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 07 02:59:57 2009