**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 30 13:17:41 2009
Nov 30 13:26:34 <armin76> lool: does the lange board have sata?
Nov 30 13:40:00 <Meizirkki> does anyone here know if the debian unstable is no more armv4t ?
Nov 30 13:54:25 <armin76> Meizirkki: suihkulokki should know
Nov 30 13:55:21 <Meizirkki> ok
Nov 30 14:02:32 <ogra> armin76, no imx51 based board has sata yet
Nov 30 14:03:16 <armin76> ogra: i thought the babbage did?
Nov 30 14:08:32 <asac> no
Nov 30 14:11:25 <lool> armin76: No
Nov 30 14:11:38 <lool> armin76: Well there are multiple lange boards, but none of them has SATA I think
Nov 30 14:11:48 <armin76> ack, thanks
Nov 30 14:12:07 <lool> armin76: The babbage 2.x+ boards have a SATA port but it's actually wired to USB IIRC
Nov 30 14:12:20 <lool> (I think it's wired to USB, but I'm not sure it's not wired to PATA)
Nov 30 14:12:33 <armin76> lool: well, better than nothing :)
Nov 30 14:12:46 <lool> Plus, there's a software bug with the SATA port too
Nov 30 14:13:55 <ogra_> there is a patch and there should be an SRU soon
Nov 30 14:23:59 <cwillu_at_work> anyone have any success running karmic on a beagleboard at a video resolution better than 800x600?
Nov 30 14:24:47 <cwillu_at_work> I can't seem to get this figured out;  my lcd complains about the signal being out of range; as far as I can tell I'm running at 1024x768MR16@60, but I don't know that for sure
Nov 30 14:24:58 <cwillu_at_work> the lcd works fine on the default oe install
Nov 30 14:26:38 <cwillu_at_work> could somebody give me a hand?
Nov 30 15:45:29 <cwillu_at_work> woot, I have success!
Nov 30 16:28:18 <ogra> lool, tickle
Nov 30 16:56:14 <ogra> lool, in linux-user/arm/syscall.h in qemu user we have a hardcoded #define UNAME_MACHINE "armv5tel" for all little endian arms ... what do you think of defaulting that to v7 ?
Nov 30 16:57:40 <lool> That's odd
Nov 30 16:58:24 <ogra> well, the current situation is bad for using qemu for lucid stuff
Nov 30 16:58:54 <ogra> and i think we should match our default compile settings here ... probably with a commandline switch though
Nov 30 16:59:15 <lool> I'm fetching an up-to-date qemu.git to see if it's still relevant
Nov 30 16:59:31 <lool> ogra: I think it should report whatever is emulated
Nov 30 16:59:38 <lool> Not a hardcoded string
Nov 30 17:00:03 <ogra> well, how do you tell which exact armel platform is emulated with qemu-user :)
Nov 30 17:00:26 <ogra> it surely makes sense to do that for qemu-system
Nov 30 17:00:27 <lool> Still an issue in tip
Nov 30 17:00:48 <ogra> but -user will just emulate "something"
Nov 30 17:00:57 <ogra> and translate the syscalls
Nov 30 17:01:16 <lool> ogra: I guess they report the oldest uname which supports EABI
Nov 30 17:01:24 <ogra> right
Nov 30 17:01:32 <ogra> which doesnt help us on lucid
Nov 30 17:01:41 <lool> ogra: perhaps it's nicer to just use linux32 style overrides for this?
Nov 30 17:02:20 <ogra> i pretty much doubt there are many differences between the actual syscalls, but if apps use uname anywhere they will get the wrong thing returned
Nov 30 17:05:06 <lool> ogra: There are no differences since it's all EABI
Nov 30 17:05:12 <ogra> right
Nov 30 17:05:37 <lool> You can copy EABI binaries around to different armvN, as long as the binaries don't use instructions for the newer arches
Nov 30 17:05:58 <lool> sh-4.0# setarch armv7l uname -m
Nov 30 17:05:58 <lool> /usr/bin/setarch: armv7l: Unrecognized architecture
Nov 30 17:06:01 <lool> Hmm
Nov 30 17:06:12 <armin76> :D
Nov 30 17:06:40 <lool> Just needs implementatin in util-linux apparenlty, seems trivial
Nov 30 17:06:54 <lool> ogra: Actually I have to ask: why do we care?
Nov 30 17:07:19 <lool> Some packages might default to looking at uname output, but that's wrong
Nov 30 17:07:28 <ogra> lool, oem seems to use qemu-arm-static for testbuilds etc, lamont pinged me that he gets the wrong uname info
Nov 30 17:07:42 <ogra> well, depends ...
Nov 30 17:07:46 <lool> Yeah I told them about it
Nov 30 17:07:50 <ogra> for sure you shouldnt use uname during buiold
Nov 30 17:07:54 <lool> Perhaps it's someone else though
Nov 30 17:08:14 <ogra> but i bet there are a ton of packages that use uname calls at runtime, from scripts etc
Nov 30 17:08:33 <ogra> if you want to test your stuff and it relies on uname it will not work
Nov 30 17:08:47 <ogra> i agree its a failure if a package uses it at build time
Nov 30 17:09:21 <lool> ogra: I think setarch is an elegant fix
Nov 30 17:09:36 <ogra> if it works :)
Nov 30 17:09:50 <lool> I'm not sure whether we want to allow v5 -> v7 by default, so it might be good to add some force flag or something
Nov 30 17:09:58 <lool> ogra: it's a trivial table
Nov 30 17:10:23 <ogra> ah, well .... /me puts it on TODO to take a look at some point
Nov 30 17:10:41 <ogra> i just brought it up bacause lamont asked about it
Nov 30 17:10:53 <ogra> i dont think its *that* important
Nov 30 18:36:15 <fta> asac, could you please file bugs against chromium wrt the tests that abort but leave children behind?
Nov 30 18:37:20 <fta> asac, also if you feel brave, one bug per FAILED would be nice (the ones that are ARM only)
Nov 30 18:44:48 <stevesmith1983> hi all
Nov 30 18:46:00 <stevesmith1983> I've got a tevion pvr hardisk video recorder, wondering about trying ubuntu on it.  is the kernel mentioned in the last paragraph of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM goingto be suitable?  I've never tried ubuntu on arm before!
Nov 30 18:46:52 <ogra> no, thats a qemu kernel for the emulator
Nov 30 18:47:05 <ogra> god, that page is horridly outdated
Nov 30 18:47:09 <armin76> :D
Nov 30 18:47:13 <stevesmith1983> lol!!
Nov 30 18:47:16 <stevesmith1983> ahh
Nov 30 18:47:20 <armin76> stevesmith1983: its highly unlikely you're going to find a kernel
Nov 30 18:47:26 <stevesmith1983> ah, okay :(
Nov 30 18:47:39 <stevesmith1983> I know nothing about kernels really
Nov 30 18:47:41 <ogra> see the url in the channel topic for the last paragraph ...
Nov 30 18:47:48 <stevesmith1983> well, I know what they do, just not how they do it :P
Nov 30 18:48:14 <stevesmith1983> ah, I have that webpage onscreen already...
Nov 30 18:48:23 <ogra> unlike x86 you need a kernel specifically build for the mainboard you use if you work with ARM
Nov 30 18:48:39 <stevesmith1983> ohh, I see
Nov 30 18:49:06 <stevesmith1983> the rootfsfromscratch, will that compline me a suitable kernel, or o I have to have someone write me one?
Nov 30 18:49:10 <ogra> so first of all you would have to find the linux kernel for your tevion ... without it you are lost
Nov 30 18:49:10 <stevesmith1983> *do
Nov 30 18:49:28 <stevesmith1983> well, it's got linux on it now, so could I use the existing kernel if I can get it off there?
Nov 30 18:49:31 <ogra> the rootfs from scratchj will only create you a userspace root filesystem
Nov 30 18:49:39 <stevesmith1983> that makes sense
Nov 30 18:49:40 <ogra> no kernel or modules or anything
Nov 30 18:50:41 <stevesmith1983> kernels aren't distro specific, are they?  so since it's runnign some version of linux now, I could use that kernel with ubuntu on it, have I understood that right?
Nov 30 18:51:46 <ogra> you probably could
Nov 30 18:51:57 <ogra> there are other arm specifics ...
Nov 30 18:52:06 <ogra> like the version of the arm implementation
Nov 30 18:52:33 <ogra> jaunty was supporting ARMv5 CPUs ... karmic only ARMv6 and lucid will only work on v7 CPUs
Nov 30 18:53:04 <stevesmith1983> I haven't yet dug out a datasheet for the one I've got, so not sure which arm version it's got in it
Nov 30 18:53:06 <ogra> so you first have to find out what implementation your CPU is and then you can make a decision what release/reootfs to use
Nov 30 18:53:27 <stevesmith1983> this is all sounding a bit out of my depth, I think!
Nov 30 18:54:07 <stevesmith1983> maybe I'm just going to have to accept that not everything in the house including the toaster needs to run ubuntu...
Nov 30 18:54:16 <ogra> heh
Nov 30 18:54:19 <stevesmith1983> :)
Nov 30 18:54:35 <ogra> you should probably ask in #ubuntu-toaster :)
Nov 30 18:54:43 <stevesmith1983> well, thanks so much for your help anyway, you've saved me hours of research!!
Nov 30 18:54:47 <stevesmith1983> haha :P
Nov 30 18:54:55 <ogra> welcome
Nov 30 18:55:46 <Q_Continuum> why is Ubuntu rapidly dropping arm5 and arm6 anyway?
Nov 30 18:55:56 <stevesmith1983> I'll have a go at seeing if I can get into a shell on it with the current version of linux it's got on it, that'll keep me busy for long enough :)
Nov 30 18:56:04 <Q_Continuum> I bought a SheevaPlug because Ubuntu ran on it, now it's basically EOL'd for 12 months from now :-(
Nov 30 18:56:36 <ogra> i heard ruoumors that the newer sheeva should run a dove CPU
Nov 30 18:56:47 <ogra> for which we provide images since karmic
Nov 30 18:57:11 <ogra> s/dove/armada iirc ... afaik it was renamed
Nov 30 18:57:27 <stevesmith1983> speak again ogra, bye!
Nov 30 18:57:35 <ogra> bye
Nov 30 18:58:38 <Q_Continuum> Eh, at this point I'll stick to x86 for whatever I end up using.  Either an Atom 330 or one of Via's new chips.  That way I won't have a "SURPRISE!" moment before I even get it set up. lol
Nov 30 18:58:39 <ogra> Q_Continuum, backwards compatibility costs performance ... even though it was a hard decision to make v7 provides the fastest and smallest today ...
Nov 30 18:59:03 <Q_Continuum> yeah
Nov 30 18:59:22 <ogra> v7 is and will stay the smallest denominator though ...
Nov 30 18:59:24 <Q_Continuum> At the same time, I wish the Sheeva had been done with a newer-tech chip
Nov 30 18:59:43 <ogra> even when cortex-a9 comes around next year we'll likely keep v7
Nov 30 19:00:39 <ogra> (we had a quadcore -a9 demo at UDS ... quite awesome)
Nov 30 19:01:42 <Q_Continuum> I was hoping to have a little shell box/email server, but now that I'm stuck with 9.04, and that will die in 12 months, it isn't worth my time to set it up.
Nov 30 19:02:10 <ogra> well, there is debian for pre v7 arches
Nov 30 19:02:15 <Q_Continuum> So for now it'll just have to be my old Athlon64 Desktop Replacement laptop until I have monies
Nov 30 19:02:15 <armin76> yep
Nov 30 19:02:24 <Q_Continuum> Eh, I try to stick to one distro.
Nov 30 19:02:35 <Q_Continuum> Makes it easier to keep track of things
Nov 30 19:02:50 <armin76> knowledge doesn't hurt :)
Nov 30 19:02:50 <Q_Continuum> and how long until Debian drops v5? heh
Nov 30 19:03:03 <armin76> don't think they ever will
Nov 30 19:03:03 <Q_Continuum> knowledge doesn't hurt, but time is the limitation.
Nov 30 19:03:15 <armin76> ogra: why ubuntu doesn't support the beagleboard?
Nov 30 19:03:32 <ogra> no comment :)
Nov 30 19:03:54 <ogra> our userspace does though ...
Nov 30 19:03:56 <armin76> ogra: why not?
Nov 30 19:04:01 <ogra> we just dont have distro kernels
Nov 30 19:05:28 <ogra> armin76, simply because nobody stepped up to maintain a kernel for it ... you are free to package one for uinverse
Nov 30 19:05:40 <ogra> *uni
Nov 30 19:05:52 <armin76> lol, no thanks :)
Nov 30 19:06:34 <ogra> anyway ...
Nov 30 19:06:39 * ogra calls it a day now ... 
Nov 30 19:06:43 <ogra> for real ! :)
Nov 30 22:01:31 <cwillu_at_work> wait, who said ubuntu doesn't support the beagleboard?
Nov 30 22:01:43 * cwillu_at_work is on a beagleboard right now with a nearly stock ubuntu
Nov 30 22:02:14 <cwillu_at_work> oh, kernel
Nov 30 22:02:28 <cwillu_at_work> ogra, what is involved in maintaining a kernel package for it?
Nov 30 22:02:45 * cwillu_at_work has a bunch of beagleboards in little boxes that he has to support anyway
Nov 30 22:11:52 <cwillu_at_work> (afk, back later)
Nov 30 22:59:54 <Linjan> доброй ночи
Nov 30 23:00:15 <Linjan> захотелось мне вот поставить это чудо на O2 Xda Flame
Nov 30 23:00:19 <Linjan> возможно ли?
Nov 30 23:00:26 <lool> ELANG
Nov 30 23:00:41 <Linjan> english?
Nov 30 23:00:45 <lool> Yeah
Nov 30 23:00:54 <Linjan> ok
Nov 30 23:00:59 <Linjan> good night
Nov 30 23:01:01 <lool> I'm afraid we don't support phones
Nov 30 23:01:10 <lool> You can use an Ubuntu chroot if you like
Nov 30 23:01:29 <Linjan> i want to install ubuntu-arm on O2 xda flame
Nov 30 23:01:39 <Linjan> now it working on Windows Mobile 6.1
Nov 30 23:02:07 <Linjan> hm
Nov 30 23:02:30 <Linjan> ARM here is not a type of CPU?
Nov 30 23:02:39 <lool> It is
Nov 30 23:02:45 <lool> But you need some kernel to run it on
Nov 30 23:04:09 <Linjan> where can I read a... manual, for example
Nov 30 23:04:15 <Linjan> or known issues
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 01 02:59:58 2009