**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 19 02:59:56 2010 Apr 19 03:05:47 You can't really compare directly. Apr 19 03:06:39 hmm. Apr 19 03:06:49 How would you compare them, then? Apr 19 03:07:17 Generally, you want to find some repeatable workload, and then run it on different hardware. Apr 19 03:07:28 Depending on the available hardware features, you'll get varying performance. Apr 19 03:08:01 But there's a huge set of dependencies on the actual workload. Just being fast at one workload as no relevance whatsoever to being fast at another workload. Apr 19 03:08:21 I'd find it interesting to put a radeon on an ARM processor's PCIe slot. Apr 19 03:08:28 And lots of hardware has accellerated features for certain workloads or subsets, *especially* in the SoC realm. Apr 19 03:08:57 I know folks have done that with some success in the past. Apr 19 03:09:03 Speaking of ARM... I keep seeing Flash for Arm on Android... but what about every other ARM system? Apr 19 03:09:14 MInd you, it's only interesting if you have workloads easily accelerated with a GPU... Apr 19 03:09:31 Flash is available for just about any ARM system. Apr 19 03:09:34 Compiz is my biggest GPU-usage thingy on any platform. Apr 19 03:09:37 But I don't believe it's free. Apr 19 03:09:45 Price, or source? Apr 19 03:09:49 Both. Apr 19 03:10:00 Dang, that sucks. Apr 19 03:10:01 It's very definitely not free-as-in-speech, but I think it's also not free-as-in-beer. Apr 19 03:10:31 Consider it an incentive to 1) improve gnash or 2) not use flash formats. Apr 19 03:11:42 Right. Flash sucks -- that's not news on any platform. Apr 19 09:07:59 morning Apr 19 09:23:13 hey hrw Apr 19 09:24:43 XorA: you had a problem to discuss Apr 19 09:25:47 hrw: touchscreen with Xorg, I beleive you did some work on making them just work (tm) Apr 19 09:26:47 what is a problem? Apr 19 09:31:28 hrw: the fact by default Xorg thinks they are touchpads Apr 19 09:31:50 never had such problem Apr 19 09:32:11 or moment... Apr 19 09:32:19 ah you never ran Angstrom without the nasty hack? Apr 19 09:32:21 show me modalias of it? Apr 19 09:32:51 hrw: I would if I knew how :-) Apr 19 09:33:28 XorA: cat `find /sys/class/input/eventX -name modalias` Apr 19 09:33:52 "input:*-e0*,3,*a0,1,*18,*" is regexp for touchscreen usually Apr 19 09:34:54 input:b0000v0000p0000e0000-e0,1,3,k102,14A,ra0,1,10,11,18,1C,30,32,35,36,mlsfw Apr 19 09:35:25 looks like ts for udev Apr 19 09:35:29 tslib works with it? Apr 19 09:36:17 hrw: yes in Angstrom Apr 19 09:36:54 ah lack of tslib in default lucid might not help Apr 19 09:42:37 try evdev driver in angstrom first Apr 19 09:44:55 well thats a secondary task, I need to get back to what Im supposed to be doing :-) Apr 19 09:46:21 tslib is available in ubuntu ... just not in any default install Apr 19 09:46:43 ogra: is what I just said Apr 19 09:46:44 you should be able to just install it (though it might miss config or patches for your specific board) Apr 19 09:48:55 * XorA is always wondering if evdev should just learn about touchscreens Apr 19 09:49:05 * ogra tries out the begale netinst image ... Apr 19 09:49:08 tslib seems a bit pointless on modern kernels Apr 19 09:49:15 XorA, it knows about them Apr 19 09:49:33 XorA, but it ignores all that dont use the usbtouchscreen kernel driver Apr 19 09:49:42 ogra: which is stupid Apr 19 09:49:51 so make your LCD use that driver and it will work Apr 19 09:49:54 most touchscreens not being USB Apr 19 09:50:07 ogra: no shit Apr 19 09:50:09 well, most new ones in the x86 world are Apr 19 09:50:19 ogra: I have Atmel devboard which is fine with evdev driver Apr 19 09:50:21 x86 is probably >1% of touchscreen market Apr 19 09:50:35 and indeed development is focused in these shiny new touchscreen convertible x86 laptops :P Apr 19 09:50:59 bug 2.0 will work with evdev driver rather then with tslib one too Apr 19 09:51:23 hrw: in OE? Apr 19 09:51:29 hrw: so we can steal the magic Apr 19 09:51:38 the kernel driver needs to export some specifics (i forgot which) so evdev picks it up Apr 19 09:51:46 XorA: at91sam9263ek Apr 19 09:52:13 but its very unlikely usb touch will ever take off in arm world Apr 19 09:52:17 XorA: basically write xorg.conf part for input device with driver 'evdev' Apr 19 09:52:35 hrw: the trick is to do it without an xorg.conf Apr 19 09:52:44 hrw: which means udev magic Apr 19 09:52:49 XorA: and then check does it work. you can be forced to swap axes (option for evdev driver) Apr 19 09:52:58 XorA: first test does it work at all with evdev Apr 19 09:53:10 XorA: otherwise you will lose time Apr 19 09:53:21 it works as a touchpad Apr 19 09:53:32 XorA: ok Apr 19 09:53:43 relative not absolute position? Apr 19 09:53:51 XorA, well, its just some flags the kernel needs to set ... i'm sure you can make other drivers work with evdev, its just that none but usbtouchscreen export the right stuff yet Apr 19 09:53:51 so relative movements and no mouse clicks Apr 19 09:55:31 XorA: check drivers/input/touchscreen/ads7846.c - at91sam9263ek uses it Apr 19 09:55:44 iirc Apr 19 09:57:00 hrw: cool, will do Apr 19 10:10:41 * ogra sits in excitement watching d-i installing on the beagle Apr 19 10:11:43 C4? Apr 19 10:12:50 yep Apr 19 10:12:58 http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/installer-armel/current/images/omap/netboot/omap/ Apr 19 10:13:03 starting with that one Apr 19 10:13:11 if it works i'll test -server Apr 19 10:13:24 -desktop will need another image respin until it works Apr 19 10:43:28 ogra: hi! so i't s working better now? Apr 19 10:43:52 ndec, it should be installable but hasnt been tested yet Apr 19 10:44:01 i'm half way through Apr 19 10:44:31 the bootloader stuff only entered the archive on friday and while all bits work they havent been tested inside the installer yet Apr 19 10:44:56 ogra: does it support hub connected to OTG? Apr 19 10:45:47 hrw, nope, amitk didnt manage to get proper testing from anyone with usable HW before kernel freeze Apr 19 10:46:39 we'll surely push an SRU kernel poist release though, if we can get enough tests from users that have OTG cables with the shortened pins that patch might go in Apr 19 10:46:42 hrw: do you have OTG HW? Apr 19 10:47:51 I don't have access to the special cable nor do I have time to solder one until after release... Apr 19 10:48:15 amitk: so far no luck with my cable Apr 19 10:56:32 amitk: beagleboard C3 has a jumper near otg to force host anyway Apr 19 10:56:57 C4 too ? Apr 19 10:57:09 * ogra sees a jumper next to OTG on his C4 Apr 19 10:57:19 hi, was anyone successful with kexec on 2.6.28-araneo? Apr 19 10:59:11 ogra: that one Apr 19 10:59:25 well, i might try it later then Apr 19 10:59:46 i cant risk to damage the board before all images are 100% sure to work Apr 19 10:59:55 hrw: good to know, now I only need a mini-to-mini cable Apr 19 11:00:09 but i have proper mini-> normal adapters to actually do the testing if OTG switching works Apr 19 11:00:15 amitk: you need usbA<>usbA female-female adapter Apr 19 11:01:30 btw - how many of you go to UDS? Apr 19 11:01:56 * lool is considering it Apr 19 11:02:00 heh Apr 19 11:02:33 * ogra wonders if we'll all be europeans there ... arriving by train or car this time round Apr 19 11:02:39 given the flight situation Apr 19 11:02:54 hrw: FYI https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/Attendees and https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m/ have some lists of people too Apr 19 11:03:01 I know Apr 19 11:03:11 got mail from Alice about it Apr 19 11:03:25 hrw: all of us? Apr 19 11:03:48 (assuming the volcano is doused by some water) Apr 19 11:03:58 amitk, well, take a ferry :P Apr 19 11:04:22 ogra: actually not a bad idea. I've got a ferry to Rostok... Apr 19 11:04:25 ogra: I hope for plain - 12h in 2 trains is a bit too much Apr 19 11:05:02 amitk, yeah, rostock->bruxelles might make a nice train ride ... though all german trains are painfully full atm Apr 19 11:05:32 hrw, especially when sitting on your suitcase for the whole ride :) Apr 19 11:05:48 ogra: rootstock -> bruxelles!! Apr 19 11:06:05 hahaha Apr 19 11:06:07 Build a rootfs while taking the train Apr 19 11:06:25 i would be feared the hang inpacts the train though :) Apr 19 11:06:32 *fearing Apr 19 11:06:38 *impacts Apr 19 11:06:44 ogra: please... I once returned from London with having to stay still in overloaded night bus for 5h Apr 19 11:06:45 sigh, i need new fingers !! Apr 19 11:07:14 lool: to build rootfs in train power outlets are needed ;( Apr 19 11:07:31 hrw, all german trains have them Apr 19 11:07:45 what good is a train w/o power outlets... Apr 19 11:07:57 yeah Apr 19 11:08:08 some even have WLAN but not all of them yet Apr 19 11:08:47 amitk: come to Poland - here trains even have some power outlets but I would not put anything other then multimeter there Apr 19 11:09:52 ogra: on ICEs you dont have power everywhere ... just by coincident from my experience on some seats Apr 19 11:10:15 asac, all ICEs have power between the seats Apr 19 11:10:22 i havent seen one without ever Apr 19 11:10:27 i have ;) Apr 19 11:10:48 so everybody cross your fingers ... Apr 19 11:11:02 beagle d-i install finished without errors ... pray it boots ! Apr 19 11:13:27 hmm, it boots but / is mounted ro Apr 19 11:14:59 sigh Apr 19 11:15:06 ext4 fs errors Apr 19 11:18:55 ogra@beagle:~$ lsb_release -a Apr 19 11:18:55 No LSB modules are available. Apr 19 11:18:55 Distributor ID: Ubuntu Apr 19 11:18:55 Description: Ubuntu lucid (development branch) Apr 19 11:18:55 Release: 10.04 Apr 19 11:18:56 Codename: lucid Apr 19 11:18:58 wohoo Apr 19 11:19:10 though i had to do two manual fsck's Apr 19 11:19:22 not sure thats the kernel or my USB key Apr 19 11:19:36 * ogra repeats the install and installs to SD this time Apr 19 11:20:59 amitk: sorry to disturb you directly - is kexec on 2.6.28-araneo broken somehow? Apr 19 11:21:57 amitk: or - do you know, who is aware of that? Apr 19 11:22:22 im trying to get the mcspi4 controller working on my beagleboard using the kernel sources here: https://code.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/2.6-stable/ but, i dont know which files to edit, as there looks to be many ways to implement spi. should i just set the pinmux (arch/arm/mach-omap2/mux.c), or should i setup spidev (arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3beagle.c)? Apr 19 11:25:11 ndec, so http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/installer-armel/current/images/omap/netboot/omap/ definately works ... (you need a NIC thats supported by the ubuntu kernel, i use an asix here ... create a vfat on SD, put the three files on it and just boot into the installer) Apr 19 11:25:46 ogra: thx. this is cool! Apr 19 11:25:53 install took about 1h here Apr 19 11:26:06 ogra: install on SD ? Apr 19 11:26:09 but pulls everything from network so speed varies based on net connection Apr 19 11:26:27 my test install was to USB key, but SD is supposed to work too, i'm testing that now Apr 19 11:26:41 Sleep_Walker: I am not working on araneo, please talk to AceLan in #ubuntu-kernel Apr 19 11:26:44 ogra: where on SD. you need to create a separate partition first? Apr 19 11:27:12 ndec, no, the netboot installer lives in ram after boot, you can just wipe the media you just booted from ;) Apr 19 11:27:38 it actually offers you the mmc in the partitioner Apr 19 11:27:53 ogra: this is great. where do you put the uImage? Apr 19 11:28:09 ndec, you mean after install ? Apr 19 11:28:26 ogra: yes. so that it finds it after reboot Apr 19 11:28:36 ndec, it turned out to be easier to overwrite NAND for now, so initrd and kernel live in NAND Apr 19 11:28:37 amitk: thank you! Apr 19 11:29:30 ogra: K. i see. so when kernel is updated it goes to NAND as well. is it possible to keep a FAT boot partition for kernel ? Apr 19 11:29:31 ndec, we surely need to revisit that for 10.n+ but time was very short to get anything going Apr 19 11:30:18 ogra: yes, for sure. we might have boards without NAND as well! Apr 19 11:30:52 ndec, as i said we have to come up with something, /boot on fat isnt possible in itself since dpkg tries to create hardlinks during package upgrades for the vmlinuz file, what we will likely do is to have a /boot/uboot partition that we treat like flash ors something similar in later releases Apr 19 11:31:57 ndec, or better something thats mounted during flash-kernel phase or some such, i discussed several models with lool last week, for beagle C4 the NAND variant is the best one for now Apr 19 11:32:15 s/mounted/mounted temporary/ Apr 19 11:32:47 and especially for the short time i had to create an image it was the only achievalbe thing Apr 19 11:32:57 *achievable Apr 19 11:33:22 all future images can change and there is a lot room for improvement :) Apr 19 11:44:49 ogra: ok. we can talk on that after 10.04 Apr 19 11:45:57 ndec, yes, we have to Apr 19 11:46:11 its on my list for things we will have to improve Apr 19 11:46:16 ogra: and we want to as well ;-) Apr 19 11:46:26 yeah :) Apr 19 11:47:10 * ogra goes for a coffebreak, install to SD is a lot slower Apr 19 12:43:37 amitk: I have OTG cables that are known to work Apr 19 12:45:26 XorA: I'll push out a kernel with OTG enabled for your testing pleasure (probably tomorrow after some release-related work) Apr 19 12:46:46 * XorA has zero omap3 devices with EHCI ports Apr 19 12:47:20 XorA: no C2-4 beagleboard even? Apr 19 12:47:30 hrw: C3 EHCI is broken :-( Apr 19 12:47:37 ok Apr 19 12:47:49 hrw: it was working for about an hour, then it just died and works no longer Apr 19 12:56:29 welcome in cruel omap3 world Apr 19 12:56:32 * hrw -> out Apr 19 13:00:32 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall Apr 19 13:00:57 everybody: feel free to enhance :) Apr 19 13:06:53 I just finished following this with pretty good success (so far) http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu Apr 19 13:07:22 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall seems like a better place to have good docs though Apr 19 13:07:45 well, one is community built, one is using an official ubuntu image Apr 19 13:07:54 I understand that Apr 19 13:08:23 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall is for the image we will release with ubuntu arm this month Apr 19 13:08:24 just thinking might be a good place to help with adding to the official docs initially Apr 19 13:08:42 cool Apr 19 13:09:48 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu is definately more flexible and uses its own kernels which might have additional features over the ubuntu kernel though Apr 19 13:10:42 we will also have a netbook and a server installation image Apr 19 13:10:53 cool Apr 19 13:14:07 I'll be following the arm progress for sure Apr 19 13:15:07 my beagleboard needs an OS and I'd prefer to keep with something familiar ;) Apr 19 13:15:33 thats why we build the images :) Apr 19 13:15:39 indeed Apr 19 13:20:53 yay Apr 19 13:20:59 so install to SD works as well Apr 19 13:21:14 amitk, i see an opps, seems OTG related Apr 19 13:21:58 ogra@beagleC4:~$ lsb_release -a Apr 19 13:21:58 No LSB modules are available. Apr 19 13:21:58 Distributor ID: Ubuntu Apr 19 13:21:58 Description: Ubuntu lucid (development branch) Apr 19 13:21:58 Release: 10.04 Apr 19 13:21:59 Codename: lucid Apr 19 13:22:03 :D Apr 19 13:22:22 ogra@beagleC4:~$ mount |grep 'on / ' Apr 19 13:22:22 /dev/mmcblk0p1 on / type ext4 (rw,errors=remount-ro) Apr 19 13:22:29 \o/ Apr 19 13:24:16 sweet Apr 19 13:27:29 * ogra files bug 566639 Apr 19 13:27:34 Launchpad bug 566639 in apt-setup (Ubuntu) "omap install ends up with security.ubuntu.com urls in sources.list after install (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566639 Apr 19 13:29:50 plars, GrueMaster ^^^ can you check if thats also the case under imx51/dove ? Apr 19 13:36:52 ogra: the imx51 install I did on Friday did not have security.ubuntu.com Apr 19 13:37:24 plars, cool, can you comment on the bug that you dont see it on imx51 ? Apr 19 13:37:36 amitk, bug 566645 for you Apr 19 13:37:39 Launchpad bug 566645 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu) "doing a netinstall to SD card results in OTG related oops on first boot (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566645 Apr 19 13:37:51 ogra: will do Apr 19 13:38:11 thanks :) Apr 19 13:38:25 plars, also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall ... happy installing :) Apr 19 13:38:50 ogra: woo! Apr 19 13:40:01 * ogra goes to test the server image now Apr 19 13:40:14 -netbook still needs a respin with the latest ubiquity Apr 19 13:44:07 re Apr 19 13:46:54 7Mbps usb ethernet suxx Apr 19 16:10:31 there an easy way to configure the auto mount to not open a window on the desktop every time it automounts a device? Apr 19 16:19:44 prpplague: yes, though there's no user-friendly menu config option for it. Instead, run gconf-editor, and disable apps -> nautilus -> preferences -> media_automount_open Apr 19 16:19:55 ugh Apr 19 16:20:05 indeed there is a config option for it Apr 19 16:20:14 its in the nautilus preferences Apr 19 16:20:30 Really? Oh well, do that then :) Apr 19 16:20:40 dmart: thanks Apr 19 16:20:43 * prpplague tries that Apr 19 16:20:45 just open a nautilus window ... edit->preferences ... Apr 19 16:20:57 in the devices tab Apr 19 16:21:35 ogra: hmm, i don't see a devices tab Apr 19 16:21:49 might be called differently, german installation here :) Apr 19 16:22:05 prpplague, you are on lucid, right ? Apr 19 16:22:08 There's Media -> "Browse media when inserted" which is probably what prpplague wants Apr 19 16:22:15 media, yeah Apr 19 16:22:29 ahh found it Apr 19 16:22:31 I often want to disable automount completely, which you can only do through gconf-editor :/ Apr 19 16:22:33 * prpplague tests Apr 19 16:22:40 there is also "dont perform any action ..." here Apr 19 16:22:47 dmart: yea i hate auto mount Apr 19 16:22:57 * ogra loves it Apr 19 16:23:05 i rely on it for all my SD stuff Apr 19 16:23:15 Depends what you're trying to do :) Apr 19 16:23:16 lets you get very lazy though Apr 19 16:23:28 and eject doesn't seem to work as expected in ubuntu Apr 19 16:23:33 ?? Apr 19 16:23:43 it removes the device Apr 19 16:23:52 its a kernel feature Apr 19 16:24:25 there is a separate unmount function in the context menu if you want to keep the device node of an USB device Apr 19 16:25:13 ogra: yea, normally i would expect that if you have /dev/sdb1 and /dev/sdb2 mount, you could issue the command: eject /dev/sdb and it would unmount /dev/sdb1 and /dev/sdb2 and eject the removable device Apr 19 16:25:26 ah Apr 19 16:25:30 ogra: on ubuntu it fails Apr 19 16:25:45 Was eject ever that clever? Apr 19 16:25:51 well, there were some upstream kernel changes in that area, not sure thats ubuntu specific Apr 19 16:25:57 dmart: works fine on fedora and debian Apr 19 16:26:06 ok then Apr 19 16:26:34 it definately removes all device nodes if you klick the little eject thingie in nautilus Apr 19 16:27:08 have a nice rest of day Apr 19 16:27:17 hrw: later Apr 19 16:27:49 ogra: i'll have to dig into that, possible the syntax has changed Apr 19 16:27:59 * ogra goes back to TV to watch snooker champoinship while the beagle server install runs ... watching d-i work is tiring Apr 19 16:30:39 ogra: fun fun, thanks for the info Apr 19 16:30:43 dmart: you too Apr 19 16:58:04 ndec, hmm, smells like there are additional changes in the omapbf package needed Apr 19 16:58:10 *omapfb Apr 19 16:58:29 your log definately shows that the loading works correctly Apr 19 17:45:19 laughs, flash-kernel works a little too great... but the omap kernel works good on my Bx beagle.. Apr 19 17:58:55 ok, server install on beagle works fine as well ! Apr 19 17:58:57 \o/ Apr 19 17:59:08 two happy images already Apr 19 17:59:22 sounds great ogra.. ;) Apr 19 17:59:37 rcn-ee, what dont you like about flash-kernel ? Apr 19 18:00:35 laughs, it's overriding my external kernel.. ;) I'm trying to add a /etc/flash-kernel.conf override shortly after debian-install creates the partition.. ;) Apr 19 18:00:58 /etc/flash-kernel.conf isnt used Apr 19 18:01:19 But i discovered the omap kernel works great on a Bx, otg/dvi etc.. Apr 19 18:01:22 edit /etc/kernel-img.conf or flash-kernel itself Apr 19 18:01:34 yeah, that one.. sorry was looking at both... Apr 19 18:01:47 or even uninstall flash-kernel Apr 19 18:02:04 since you would also have to edit update-initramfs otherwise Apr 19 18:02:05 i have it echo "you are using the community kernel, remove this file to use ubuntu's" then it calles exit, which works... Apr 19 18:02:24 safest is to just apt-get remove it Apr 19 18:02:52 Yeah, that would be the safest.. Except i decided to hack into the NetInstall... ;) Apr 19 18:03:02 ah, heh Apr 19 18:03:46 ps: i put your wiki link here: http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#NetInstall so you shoudl get more users, i didn't know what else to put other then the http link... Apr 19 18:04:02 awesome, thanks ! Apr 19 18:04:34 i'll also blog about it once i have all images tested Apr 19 18:04:57 though netbook is still building and its my turn with cooking today Apr 19 18:05:05 that's going to be a fun week, I'll be in esc so i'm going to miss all the thursday/friday release fun.. Apr 19 18:05:16 so i'll call it a day now ... Apr 19 18:05:30 * ogra has to cook a trout ... never done that ... will be intresting Apr 19 18:07:42 Hey, ogra (or anyone else) .. who made a server armel image? Apr 19 18:07:47 where is it hiding? Apr 19 18:08:03 (I'm sitting in an office with Rob and Dustin) Apr 19 18:10:14 I don't know if he uploaded it yet, he used the NetInstall methiod.. Apr 19 18:13:40 http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/ports/daily/current/ Apr 19 18:16:48 thanks for the link Apr 19 20:35:56 I'm new to ARM development. I have a proprietary library (camera driver) that "has EABI version 0" and I am trying to compile it with an "EABI version 4" toolchain. Or at least I think that's what my console is telling me. Can somebody point me in the right direction on what it means and how to resolve this? Apr 19 20:39:46 I think its more likely its an OABI binary Apr 19 20:40:53 entirely possible - can you give me the short version of what that means? Apr 19 20:40:59 how I could determine that? Apr 19 20:43:13 I guess what I'm trying to determine is which of the following is true: Apr 19 20:43:13 * I can "wrap" the proprietary library somehow and link it against other code. Apr 19 20:43:13 * I could install an older version of linux/compilers/etc. and make everything the same version as the library. Apr 19 20:43:13 * I'm up a creek unless I can get a different version of the library. Apr 19 20:50:15 chrismurf: up the creek is the safest estimation, you can make an OABI chroot, but that depends on ubuntu kernel fully working with OABI Apr 19 20:51:00 XorA, what if I went back several versions of ubuntu/debian/whatever? I'm happy to do that if it would fix the problem. Apr 19 20:51:09 we had similar issues with GPS chip in OpenMoko and it was always pain Apr 19 20:51:22 or does Cortex-A8 mandate the EABI? Apr 19 20:51:23 chrismurf: pre armel version of debian should work Apr 19 20:51:26 okay Apr 19 20:51:38 and I'll just see decreased floating point performance and what have you Apr 19 20:51:46 chrismurf: the main issue is no-one is doing it so support rapidly rots Apr 19 20:51:56 duly noted Apr 19 20:52:01 the evils of proprietary libraries Apr 19 20:52:09 sadly sometimes we don't have choices in these matters Apr 19 20:52:22 could try sending ubuntu dudes to chat with the vendor Apr 19 20:52:31 we just shot the vendor an email Apr 19 20:52:39 they've been decent folks in the past, maybe we'll get lucky Apr 19 20:53:13 suspect they just haven't had call for a recent ARM version Apr 19 20:53:28 Ubuntu is the current buzzword for PHB so just mentioning their stuff doesnt work might be enough Apr 19 20:54:31 duly noted ;-) Apr 19 21:14:57 re Apr 19 21:15:35 After meeting with Dustin and Rob, we've got a good idea now for what blueprints Smooth-stone will be working on for UDS-M Apr 19 21:26:06 anyone run ubuntu on dockstar ? it is an arm chip Apr 19 21:26:20 http://ahsoftware.de/dockstar/ Apr 19 21:32:33 it says you can install ubuntu .. but not in much details Apr 19 21:32:37 http://ahsoftware.de/dockstar/ Apr 19 21:41:02 this page says debian does not support seagate freeagent dockstar Apr 19 21:41:04 http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/plugs.html Apr 19 21:41:14 is that mean ubuntu arm won't compile in here ? Apr 19 21:53:46 axisys: Ubuntu Lucid ( and M ) will not work on the sheeva based device Apr 19 21:54:18 because sheeva is arm version 5 code, and lucid/M are compiled thumb2 which requires arm version 7 code Apr 19 21:54:30 you can, however, use debian if you like\ Apr 19 22:05:51 Dang. Apr 19 22:48:42 how about karmic ? will sheeva based devices work with karmic ? Apr 19 22:49:18 nope karmic is armv6 Apr 19 22:50:08 looks like jaunty will work Apr 19 22:50:16 armv5t Apr 19 22:54:32 the sheeva is shipped with Jaunty isn't it Apr 19 22:55:26 Kinda. It's shipped with a custom derivative of jaunty. Apr 19 22:59:37 tormod: oh ok Apr 19 22:59:44 persia: thanks Apr 20 00:30:41 Bummer. Are there any Marvell ARM thingies that WILL run lucid? Apr 20 00:31:19 I'm still wanting an ARM with PCIe slot. =þ Apr 20 00:36:06 DanaG : Dove Apr 20 00:36:14 and an ARM with a PCIe slot -- is a tegra2 Apr 20 00:36:27 two PCIe 1x slots in fact Apr 20 00:36:31 (Mini PCIe) Apr 20 00:36:41 Hmm, but that already has a video card... a non-open one. Apr 20 00:37:31 Interesting adapter: http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4L.html Apr 20 00:37:34 Doesn't mean you have to use it. Apr 20 00:37:51 well, pcie doesn't have a lot of bandwidth, when you're using just one lane Apr 20 00:38:05 DanaG : But even if it's not open, that doesn't mean there aren't open source DRIVERS for it Apr 20 00:38:09 2D is well supported Apr 20 00:38:17 WIth nouveau? Apr 20 00:38:37 why would nouveau even work? Apr 20 00:38:57 the technology in use on the tegra2 has nothing in common with the nvidia GPU's Apr 20 00:39:02 it's made by nVidia.. Apr 20 00:39:07 that's about it Apr 20 00:39:27 Ah :) Apr 20 00:39:29 2D is supported by it being a bog-standard framebuffer Apr 20 00:39:30 Which drivers then? Apr 20 00:39:34 fbcon Apr 20 00:39:36 Oh. That make sense. Apr 20 00:39:47 persia : And I even disabled /that/ Apr 20 00:39:53 since it steals memory that I want for appliations Apr 20 00:39:59 heh. Apr 20 00:40:08 servers don't need memory, so instead of having nearly a gig, I had barely more than 600meg Apr 20 00:40:17 servers don't need VIDEO rather Apr 20 00:40:21 Right. Apr 20 00:40:55 I'm down 512MB on one of my servers for similar reasons, and thinking about fixing it (although with 4G, it's a little less painful) Apr 20 00:42:04 hmm, I can't find much about Marvell Dove. No boards easily findable. Apr 20 00:42:19 They aren't easy to get, no. Apr 20 00:42:33 DanaG : Frankly, if you're patient, there is a new OMAP44xx board coming out soon Apr 20 00:42:39 and that is a DUAL CORE cortex a9 Apr 20 00:42:42 more than powerful enough Apr 20 00:42:53 or you can spend $300 and get into the tegra2 program Apr 20 00:42:59 I'm not in any rush to buy anything... I'm just eyeing stuff and thinking "ooh, that looks interesting." =þ Apr 20 00:43:05 well, closer to $400 Apr 20 00:43:13 it's a great board though, and we have ubuntu working now Apr 20 00:43:40 Hmm, is there info about that board, publicly available? Apr 20 00:45:36 heh, I can't find even a _picture_ of the Marvell Dove boards. Apr 20 00:46:13 http://swik.net/Gentoo/Planet+Gentoo/Ra%C3%BAl+Porcel:+ARMv7+SoCs:+Freescale+i.MX51+Babbage,+TI+OMAP3,+Marvell+Dove%2FArmada,+Qualcomm+Snapdragon%E2%80%A6/do9pt Apr 20 00:46:14 ah Apr 20 00:48:08 I see... it's all very new stuff. Apr 20 00:50:38 DanaG : There's even a public FORUM for development of tegra2 Apr 20 00:50:53 http://developer.nvidia.com/tegra/forum Apr 20 00:51:14 I am prevented from photographing it due to NDA, but it's neat Apr 20 00:52:01 Can you say if it's a mobile form, or a desktop-ish form? Apr 20 00:52:10 Desktop-is as in, openrd-base counts as that. Apr 20 00:53:08 mobile, about 15cm on a side, square Apr 20 00:53:33 embedded memory, two PCIe slots, three USB, one USB OTG (used to load firmware), etc.. Apr 20 00:53:43 Spiffy. Apr 20 00:53:52 Hmm, is there an expiration date on that NDA? Or is the date itself... under NDA? Apr 20 01:28:51 Martyn: Are you allowed to describe the embedded memory? raw NOR, raw NAND, uses FTL, etc.? Apr 20 01:29:05 (and how much?) Apr 20 01:33:17 persia : There is 1GB of 667MHz DDR2 ram Apr 20 01:33:33 I honestly don't know how much flash there is, but there is quite a bit Apr 20 01:33:54 there is no NOR that I'm aware of, but I have a SPI nor chip attached (8mbit) for my own use Apr 20 01:34:14 I know they also have some kind of SPI EEPROM Apr 20 01:35:42 Thanks. I'm mostly interested in flash, as I like the idea of / on NAND, but that can wait for retail :) Apr 20 01:36:05 * persia is mostly happy to wait for retail, but kinda wishes things would move a little faster sometimes Apr 20 01:36:19 http://developer.nvidia.com/tegra/tegra-devkit-features Apr 20 01:36:25 They released a devkit picture and overview! Apr 20 01:36:29 No more NDA for me then Apr 20 01:36:59 512MB SLC nand Apr 20 01:37:02 Nifty! Apr 20 01:37:06 it's a droolable board, and they are just now out of stock too Apr 20 01:37:10 more stock coming around May 1 Apr 20 01:37:14 Oh :( 512MB isn't quite enough. Apr 20 01:37:25 It's PLENTY for a boot/root filesystem Apr 20 01:37:31 you can put /usr on something else Apr 20 01:37:39 Yeah. Apr 20 01:37:55 persia : Consider for a moment, that ALL of android fits in 64MB Apr 20 01:38:00 128MB on th eoutside Apr 20 01:38:00 My preference is / on NAND, and /var, /home on rotary (as I churn that), but that's just me. Apr 20 01:38:20 I only consider Ubuntu, which wants ~2GB for the base install. Apr 20 01:38:39 doens't need to be Apr 20 01:38:45 I've gotten the base down to 384M Apr 20 01:38:52 Depends on the install. servers can be a lot less. Apr 20 01:39:01 base is -very small- Apr 20 01:39:06 everything else on top of it is big Apr 20 01:39:10 Right. Apr 20 01:39:16 but my tarball of base is 276mb right now Apr 20 01:39:26 uncompressed Apr 20 01:40:07 My armel buildd chroot is 304MB uncompressed. Apr 20 01:40:15 that's about right Apr 20 01:40:29 and if you do tasksel server, it increases to ~380 Apr 20 01:40:36 (base+build-essential+vim-tiny+less) Apr 20 01:40:44 yeah, you need GCC in there Apr 20 01:40:52 For my buildd? Yeah :) Apr 20 01:41:35 But it gets *lots* bigger when you install all the Desktop/Netbook stuff. Apr 20 01:41:50 depends what you install Apr 20 01:42:04 I have basic browser, and support files, coming in at ~780m Apr 20 01:42:08 Oh, did you ever get a chance to dig into eucalyptus-nc and make it work for headless managed servers, rather than just KVM? Apr 20 01:42:14 no Apr 20 01:42:21 that's our new blueprint for UDS-M Apr 20 01:42:28 one of three that we've decided on Apr 20 01:42:29 Oh, cool. Apr 20 01:42:33 What are the other two? Apr 20 01:42:38 eucalyptus + LXC is one Apr 20 01:42:50 arm-server image without kernel/initrd Apr 20 01:43:07 so that more people can just download the .img and get working Apr 20 01:43:24 (because other than kernel/initrd .. all armv7 images are the same) Apr 20 01:43:39 I'm philosophically opposed to that, because I think separating the kernel from the rest of it is poor design, but yeah, that's probably best until we can *fix* the issues with ARM kernels. Apr 20 01:43:46 yep. Apr 20 01:44:08 Actually, do you have a working qemu target for your board? Apr 20 01:44:09 but the kernel --is-- separate .. there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get a .img of an ext4 filesystem Apr 20 01:44:23 no. We are not going to do QEMU of our board Apr 20 01:44:33 we're not in the business of building simulators Apr 20 01:44:42 by not doing so, we'll get to hardware that much faster Apr 20 01:44:51 Fair. Apr 20 01:45:09 Means no chance of changing the qemu kernel target though :) Apr 20 01:45:15 plus the performance of qemu of multicore architectures -sucks- Apr 20 01:45:22 much less of quad core Apr 20 01:45:22 Yeah :) Apr 20 01:45:27 much less one with 4GB of ram Apr 20 01:45:57 But I argume the kernel isn't separate: it inherently depends on the toolchain, and is interrelated. Apr 20 01:46:10 The initrd is even more not separate, since it's constructed based on the filesystem. Apr 20 01:46:19 And the filesystem contains all the kernel modules, etc. Apr 20 01:46:47 but the initrd is mostly -not used- by ARM targets Apr 20 01:46:51 But that's all well-known, and it doesn't make the situation better for folks stuck in the embedded model. Apr 20 01:46:55 in fact, Dustin and I use monolithic kernels Apr 20 01:47:02 right Apr 20 01:47:13 so, if you ignore it (and you can .. ) things get easier Apr 20 01:47:26 plus you can build the initrd after completing the install with a monolithic kernel if needed Apr 20 01:47:39 Well, I won't ignore it, but I'm willing to take a longer term view, and let folks work around it for now :) Apr 20 01:48:03 For some classes of install: the d-i installer is based inside the initrd, for example :) Apr 20 01:48:15 Which installer is the one used by the server installs. Apr 20 01:48:30 But I'll attend the session: some of this can be worked around. Apr 20 01:48:44 And what can't can probably be scripted in some way. Apr 20 01:49:01 So, what's the third spec? Apr 20 01:54:38 that's private for now Apr 20 01:54:54 but just for a week or so while the guy working on it gets it completed Apr 20 01:55:12 it's something around cluster control Apr 20 01:55:16 (aka cloud control) Apr 20 01:55:28 OK. From your first comment I worried that you'd forgotten that UDS is incredibly public (sessions are icecasted, specs are on the internet, etc.) Apr 20 01:56:02 No, I just don't want to say what I don't know :) Apr 20 01:56:04 That's as much detail as I sought. Makes sense, given the vision from your webpages. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 20 03:00:03 2010