**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 24 02:59:57 2010
May 24 04:35:49 <sid__> hi anybody there
May 24 04:36:38 <sid__> i want to know the exact flow of rootstock script
May 24 04:36:47 <sid__> and its functioning
May 24 07:05:48 <zyga> good morning
May 24 07:07:35 <lool> morning
May 24 07:35:48 <neure> hi
May 24 07:35:57 <neure> how good is 10.04 on beagleboard?
May 24 07:37:26 <amitk> neure: it works fairly well on the C4 board
May 24 07:37:59 <DanaG> though, rcn-ee's kernels are better than the official Ubuntu one.
May 24 07:38:38 <persia> DanaG: Do we know precisely how?  Is this fixable?
May 24 07:39:44 <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/linux-ti-omap
May 24 07:41:05 <persia> amitk: Do we have an SRU in progress?
May 24 07:41:22 <amitk> persia: some of those bugs will be fixed as SRUs, yes
May 24 07:41:47 <DanaG> I'm also interested in this: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-uefi-support
May 24 07:42:00 <DanaG> though, it'd be nice to get HP to fix the first-gen elitebooks' broken UEFI.
May 24 07:42:02 * persia looks again, having thought all of them were listed as SRU candidates
May 24 07:42:51 <persia> DanaG: That ought drop in fairly smoothly.  EFI already (mostly) works.  The main issue with UEFI is the CDs.
May 24 07:44:17 <DanaG> My issue, specifically, is that my firmware seems to claim GraphicsOutputProtocol support... but the framebuffer is at 0x0.
May 24 07:44:50 <DanaG> also: http://h30499.www3.hp.com/hpeb/?category.id=business-support
May 24 07:44:54 <persia> Ah, that's broken firmware then *)
May 24 07:44:56 <DanaG> er
May 24 07:45:02 <DanaG> fail.... urls are now dead.
May 24 07:45:58 <hrw> morning
May 24 07:47:23 <DanaG> Next-gen models are supposedly fixed... but that does me no good. =(
May 24 07:47:33 <DanaG> It'll be interesting to see uefi + ARM.
May 24 07:47:51 <neure> well i'd like to know what does not work
May 24 07:48:01 <neure> "fairly well" is rather meaningless
May 24 07:48:28 <amitk> OTG is broken ATM, and DanaG has pointed you to the buglist
May 24 07:48:44 <neure> bugs at launchpad? hmm let me see
May 24 07:48:54 <neure> my computer is really slow right now though :/
May 24 08:03:59 <neure> which package has 7za?
May 24 08:06:17 <tmzt> p7zip at one point
May 24 08:06:41 <ogra> neure, apt-cache search 7za ;)
May 24 08:07:31 <neure> thx
May 24 08:12:07 <neure> "Everything is Ok"
May 24 08:12:09 <neure> lol
May 24 08:12:12 <neure> so comforting
May 24 08:15:07 <neure> im on my x86 linux now, how do i figure out what device is my memory card reader?
May 24 08:15:23 <hrw> dmesg?
May 24 08:16:04 <ogra> or if its formatted it should just automount :)
May 24 08:16:16 <ogra> (once you plug an SD in)
May 24 08:16:40 <hrw> ogra: depends on system config - my ubuntus do not automount
May 24 08:16:49 <ogra> mine does
May 24 08:17:03 <ogra> definately in karmic and lucid
May 24 08:17:22 <ogra> with the builtin mmc reader as well as with an external USB one
May 24 08:17:51 <hrw> [161018.255969] sd 8:0:0:0: [sdi] Assuming drive cache: write through
May 24 08:17:51 <hrw> [161018.255973]  sdi: sdi1
May 24 08:17:55 <hrw> 10:17 hrw@home:~$ mount|grep sdi
May 24 08:17:55 <hrw> 10:17 hrw@home:~$
May 24 08:18:04 <ogra> wow, file a bug
May 24 08:18:19 <ogra> devkit-disks should definately pick it up
May 24 08:18:22 <hrw> ogra: for me it is not a bug but proper behaviour
May 24 08:18:47 <ogra> it should only not automount if you added a specific udev rule to omit it
May 24 08:18:53 <neure> hmm mine is sdb
May 24 08:19:28 <ogra> by default all block devices are supposed to be automounted
May 24 08:19:58 * neure ./setup_sdcard.sh --mmc /dev/sdb --uboot beagle --swap_file 100
May 24 08:20:02 <hrw> neure: I have hdds as sda/b/c, one card reader as sdd/e/f/g, pendrive as sdh and second card reader as sdi
May 24 08:20:36 <neure> i hope i get this Lucid 10.04 Xfce4 to boot on my C2 beagleboard
May 24 08:21:02 <ogra> for a C2 make sure to have a proper power supply attached
May 24 08:21:10 <ogra> and a powered hub as well
May 24 08:21:18 <neure> check, check
May 24 08:21:29 <ogra> it has HW issues wrt USB/power
May 24 08:21:32 <neure> keyboard and mouse is in the powered hub
May 24 08:21:45 <neure> the mini usb thing, also ethernet is there
May 24 08:22:00 <neure> i wonder if i need any specific boot arguments
May 24 08:22:07 <hrw> no, just boot
May 24 08:22:11 <ogra> beyond that i'd recommend the netinstall image and then install xubuntu-desktop (or xfce )
May 24 08:22:28 <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle
May 24 08:22:38 <neure> would that be somehow better?
May 24 08:22:51 <ogra> its tested and supported :)
May 24 08:23:10 <neure> ok i'll go that instead then
May 24 08:23:23 * ogra just closed a bunch of bugs as invalid from people that use their own kernels
May 24 08:23:57 <hrw> 10 years ago my desktop had 128MB ram and it was enough for gnome1. today with beagleboard/256MB ram it is hard to fit something
May 24 08:24:10 <ogra> 640k is enough for everyone !!
May 24 08:24:12 <neure> why is the netinstall image half a gig?)
May 24 08:24:22 <amitk> hrw: that's called progress
May 24 08:24:36 <ogra> neure, the netinstall image isnt half a gig
May 24 08:24:40 <hrw> neure: its SD card image
May 24 08:24:48 <hrw> neure: lot of empty space inside
May 24 08:24:48 <ogra> neure, dont mix up netinstall with netbook :)
May 24 08:25:03 <ogra> netinstall is about 10MB
May 24 08:25:23 <neure> "Download installation software" Download the ubuntu-10.04-netbook-armel+omap.img image file from ...
May 24 08:25:30 <hrw> amitk: add >logger "autogetty: $GETTY_ARGS"< to /etc/init/autogetty.conf and restart. then tell what was in syslog
May 24 08:25:32 <neure> that is the first thing on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetbookInstall
May 24 08:25:39 <neure> and that image is half a gig
May 24 08:25:41 <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall
May 24 08:25:49 <ogra> you are looking at the wrong one
May 24 08:25:53 <neure> oh
May 24 08:26:18 <ogra> the netbook image contains the whole netbook release :)
May 24 08:26:43 <ogra> which gets you what the screenshot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Beagle shows
May 24 08:27:09 <ogra> (only tested on beagle C4 though, not sure it works on a C2)
May 24 08:27:18 <hrw> I got netbook installed on C3
May 24 08:27:28 <hrw> not that I would suggest using it
May 24 08:27:30 <ogra> does C2 have 256M ?
May 24 08:27:41 * ogra thought that was still 128
May 24 08:27:50 <ogra> netbook definately needs 256
May 24 08:28:02 <ogra> (and a lot of swap)
May 24 08:29:05 <ogra> hrw, yeah, netbook was mainly thought as a base for the upcoming panda/blaze images in maverick ... probably also good to demo whats possible but surely not for daily use
May 24 08:29:06 <hrw> Cx have 256MB
May 24 08:29:14 <hrw> Ax/Bx were 128MB
May 24 08:29:27 <ogra> right, i wasnt sure if there wasnt some overlap
May 24 08:29:58 <hrw> there was cpu overlap
May 24 08:30:10 <hrw> B7 got newer silicon
May 24 08:30:16 <hrw> C4 got even newer one
May 24 08:30:34 <ogra> ah
May 24 08:32:06 <ogra> cooloney, so i was trying to build touchbook kernels on my blaze over the weekend ... seems there are still some issues, usually make uImage works fine but in make modules i then get bus errors (or the other way round if i build modules first on the second run when using make uImage i get the same)
May 24 08:32:50 <amitk> ogra: I thought the only problem with touchbook was the display resolution?
May 24 08:32:51 <ogra> i was using make -j2 so it might be a heat problem or it might trigger the same issue we see with git clone, not sure
May 24 08:33:16 <ogra> amitk, nope, there are DSS2 patches (that break all other boards) that arent in our tree
May 24 08:33:54 <ogra> i finally found a 2.6.32 tree to build that actually has all patches i need, but now my touchbook seems ot have power issues
May 24 08:34:10 <ogra> so i didnt get very far yet but seeing a tty on console
May 24 08:34:43 <ogra> somehow the battery doesnt charge ... i wonder if the power supply has issues with 220v (even though the printed specs disagree)
May 24 08:35:00 <ogra> it shuts down after a minute or two
May 24 08:35:06 <hrw> ogra: OE 2.6.32 works on TB iirc
May 24 08:35:20 <ogra> hrw, i dont use OE, i want a plain kernel tree
May 24 08:35:33 <ogra> so i can diff patches against the ubuntu tree
May 24 08:35:42 <XorA> ogra: my 4430 SDP hard locks on occasion, but this is the sort of thing we expect with ES1.0 hardware :-D
May 24 08:35:47 <ogra> but anyway the TB patches are to intrusive
May 24 08:36:06 <ogra> we would need a standalone kernel for it i guess
May 24 08:36:33 <ogra> (which i'm fine to provide from people.u.c once i have one that works though)
May 24 08:36:42 <ogra> (as unsupported build indeed :) )
May 24 08:36:51 <cooloney> ogra: what's touchbook kernel? i have no idea about that. -:/
May 24 08:37:03 <ogra> cooloney, its just a kernel
May 24 08:37:22 <ogra> cooloney, the point is thet the blaze kernel misbehaves when i try to build a kernel with it
May 24 08:37:44 <ogra> it either overheats or exposes the same issue we see with git
May 24 08:37:51 <ogra> its fine after i reboot the blaze
May 24 08:37:55 <cooloney> ogra: so what's the difference between blaze kernel and touchbook kernel?
May 24 08:38:05 <ogra> cooloney, forget about the touchbook kernel
May 24 08:38:30 <ogra> my point is that building soemthing heavyweight on the blaze with -j2 makes it die at some point
May 24 08:38:58 <ogra> gcc spills out bus errors after 1-2h of building
May 24 08:38:59 <cooloney> ogra: ok, terrible.
May 24 08:39:08 <ogra> which are gone after a reboot
May 24 08:39:11 <cooloney> bus errors
May 24 08:39:18 <ogra> we need to talk to nicolas
May 24 08:39:36 <ogra> but its a bank holiday across most of europe today
May 24 08:39:39 <cooloney> ogra: right, maybe they did similar test on blaze
May 24 08:39:45 <ogra> so it has to wait until tomorrow
May 24 08:39:54 <cooloney> ogra: ok, understand
May 24 08:40:09 <ogra> just wanted to notify you that there is some issue
May 24 08:40:36 <ogra> and a kernel is the heaviest i can build atm ... thats why i took a touchbook kernel
May 24 08:40:47 <ogra> (i didnt like to build OO.o :P )
May 24 08:40:52 <cooloney> ogra: ok, so if ~test6 works on your hardware,
May 24 08:41:10 <cooloney> i am going to ask merge the kernel as a branch in lucid
May 24 08:41:14 <ogra> ok
May 24 08:41:20 <cooloney> and upload it to PPA
May 24 08:41:20 <ogra> i'm still running test5
May 24 08:41:24 <ogra> what changed ?
May 24 08:41:40 <cooloney> oh, i went throught the email from Sebastein
May 24 08:41:45 <ogra> ah
May 24 08:41:55 <cooloney> and built-in SysLink driver which will cause linking error before
May 24 08:42:10 <cooloney> and rebased to omap4 latest kernel from omapzoom
May 24 08:42:30 <cooloney> they updated some wifi MMC things in their kernel
May 24 08:42:47 <ogra> ok
May 24 08:42:56 <cooloney> so mostly are not big change since ~test5
May 24 08:43:22 <cooloney> and ogra, before I upload it to PPA, need i solve the ABI dump and modules list issue in kernel?
May 24 08:43:23 <ogra> well, you discuss some SMP related option there
May 24 08:43:37 <cooloney> oh, that KGDB,
May 24 08:43:48 <ogra> i guess for the first upload you need to disable the abi and module checks
May 24 08:43:53 <ogra> amitk will know though
May 24 08:44:01 <cooloney> they did not implement a function for KGDB in SMP
May 24 08:44:12 <ogra> cooloney, since my building fails with -j2 it might be related
May 24 08:44:15 <cooloney> so we have to disable KGDB in our kernel
May 24 08:44:45 <ogra> i havent tried without -j2 though
May 24 08:44:47 <cooloney> ogra: so -j1 works fine in your blaze?
May 24 08:44:58 <cooloney> ok
May 24 08:44:59 <amitk> cooloney: for first upload, just ignore the abi and modules list (see wiki)
May 24 08:45:06 <ogra> havent tried yet, building a kernel with -j1 will take ages :)
May 24 08:45:30 <cooloney> ogra: ok, IC, heh
May 24 08:45:44 <cooloney> amitk: thx, i failed to find the wiki about that.
May 24 08:45:50 <cooloney> amitk: where is it?
May 24 08:46:22 <ogra_> whoops
May 24 08:46:28 <amitk> cooloney: see the first few omap uploads in lucid, there is a ignore and modules.ignore file in the  abi dir
May 24 08:46:36 <ogra_> -j2 finishes building uImage in 45min ... i think -j1 will take 3h or more :)
May 24 08:47:30 <cooloney> amitk: so i just touch those 2 files and upload the kernel source.
May 24 08:48:00 <ogra> hmm ?? where does that underscore guy come from
May 24 08:48:38 <ogra> weird, i have two xchats running but see only one on the desktop
May 24 08:49:03 <amitk> cooloney: each of those files should contain a single line with '1' in it.
May 24 08:50:25 <cooloney> amitk: thanks, i understand. so for uploading, the page in our ppa is quite simple.
May 24 08:50:42 <cooloney> amitk: 'dput <source.changes>' what does that mean?
May 24 08:51:00 <ogra> use the .changes file for uploading with dput
May 24 08:51:02 <amitk> cooloney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/KernelMaintenance (seearch for ignore)
May 24 08:52:00 <amitk> cooloney: you have to build the kernel (debuild) and upload the resulting .changes files to PPA
May 24 08:52:31 <ogra> cooloney, you need to generate a debian source package (which generates <packagename-version>_source.changes) and then upload the .changes file (it pulls the other bits of the source package with it)
May 24 08:53:51 <cooloney> ah, got it. so how to generate a debian source package for kernel?
May 24 08:54:19 <ogra> either using "dpkg-buildpackage -S -sa" or debuaild -S in the source tree
May 24 08:54:24 <ogra> *debuild
May 24 08:54:55 <ogra> make sure to have your gpg key set up right before doing that, you need to sign the package
May 24 08:56:07 <cooloney> ogra: thx, will try soon
May 24 08:56:25 <ogra> (debuild/dpkg-buildpackage will automatically ask for your passphrase and do everything for you)
May 24 08:57:47 <cooloney> ogra: it is so smart now, much easier in lucid than before
May 24 08:58:03 <ogra> building packages ?
May 24 08:58:10 <ogra> that has always been like that :)
May 24 08:58:41 <ogra> (cant speak for the kernel though, not sure that was different before lucid, but i dont think so)
May 24 08:59:02 <cooloney> ogra: need i use root or fackroot?
May 24 08:59:26 <ogra> fakeroot is ok, but you shouldnt even need that for building a source package
May 24 08:59:39 <ogra> err ... hmm, you might
May 24 08:59:47 <ogra> use fakeroot :)
May 24 09:00:05 <ogra> never use root for building packages
May 24 09:00:12 <hrw> ogra: you should like this: http://hrw.pastebin.com/aR3VSxJS
May 24 09:00:33 <ogra> hrw, great !
May 24 09:00:47 <ogra> hrw, how about dropping all the if/then ? :)
May 24 09:01:05 <ogra> [ -z $BITS ] && BITS=8
May 24 09:01:15 <ogra> works the same way and is more readable
May 24 09:01:24 <hrw> I like if/then/fi more
May 24 09:01:32 <ogra> (makes no difference execution wise)
May 24 09:01:59 <hrw> ogra: I prefer programing languages then shell ones so if/then/fi
May 24 09:02:01 <ogra> hrw, will you put that into initramfs-tools by default ?
May 24 09:02:17 * ogra votes for it 
May 24 09:02:27 <hrw> ogra: asac did put it in some package already
May 24 09:02:42 <hrw> ogra: so ask him
May 24 09:02:50 <ogra> oh, /bin/autologinroot wont work in initramfs-tools
May 24 09:02:52 <ogra> hrm
May 24 09:03:08 <ogra> hrw, i want that function in ubuntu proper too
May 24 09:03:22 <ogra> but /bin/autologinroot will make that impossible
May 24 09:04:11 <hrw> ogra: I think that /etc/default/autogetty can solve that
May 24 09:04:37 <ogra> you mean by just checking for a variable ? yeah, that would help
May 24 09:05:35 <ogra> asac, where do you plan to put that script ?
May 24 09:06:14 <ogra> (it wasnt uploadedd to maverick apparently)
May 24 09:06:20 <hrw> ogra: http://hrw.pastebin.com/LtbQBMa0
May 24 09:06:39 <hrw> ogra: I think that so far it landed in newcore package
May 24 09:07:02 <ogra> right, i'd like to have that function in maverick (and i'd like to use it for 10.07)
May 24 09:07:26 <ogra> why do you set line 17 ?
May 24 09:07:53 <ogra> if AUTOGETTY_ARGS="-n -l /bin/autologinroot" is in /etc/default/autogetty that should be fine
May 24 09:07:56 <hrw> cause I am testing it on system where I do not want to create such one
May 24 09:08:04 <ogra> ah
May 24 09:09:20 <ogra> well, for having it in maverick it would have to not use autogetty by default
May 24 09:09:33 <ogra> so you need the eaxct opposite here :/
May 24 09:10:23 <hrw> ogra: or add "START=yes/no" in /etc/default/autogetty
May 24 09:10:42 <ogra> right, something like that
May 24 09:10:58 <ogra> though that would even require to have the autogetty binary in the main distro
May 24 09:11:35 <ogra> i would propose to just source the default file if it exists, put your stuff into the distro and for your project just have a package that creates the file
May 24 09:11:52 <ogra> i.e. an autogetty package that ships binary and /etc/default/autogetty
May 24 09:12:55 <ogra> that way the distro can have serail gettys automatically without using root access on them by default
May 24 09:13:30 <hrw> ok, will discuss with asac
May 24 09:13:36 <ogra> cool, thanks :)
May 24 09:13:42 <ogra> i guess he's off today as well
May 24 09:14:09 <ogra> and i'll go enjoying a bit of my free day too now ... back later
May 24 09:15:05 <hrw> national holiday?
May 24 09:18:07 <ogra_cmpc> yes whit monday
May 24 09:21:43 <hrw> I need to readd US/UK/FR national holidays to calendar
May 24 09:23:52 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: curious, .fi has a WhitSunday
May 24 09:24:23 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, we have that too
May 24 09:24:47 <ogra_cmpc> its both days in .de
May 24 09:27:41 <kblin> amitk: what's the point on having sunday off? ;)
May 24 09:28:17 <hrw> kblin: if you work in supermarket then it matters
May 24 09:28:32 <kblin> hrw: not in .de
May 24 09:28:37 <hrw> kblin: but in .pl yes
May 24 09:28:53 <kblin> at least in my state supermarkets aren't allowed to open on sundays
May 24 09:29:00 <hrw> kblin: basically if you work in businnes which is open 7 days a week then sundayOff matters
May 24 09:29:04 <ogra_cmpc> same here
May 24 09:29:20 <kblin> which is funny, given how much more religious the polish people are in general
May 24 09:29:34 <hrw> in Poland supermarkets can be open on sundays and I even like it.
May 24 09:29:47 <hrw> during week I do not have a time to go and make big shopping
May 24 09:30:28 <kblin> well, people tried to do that in .de as well, but unions and churches lobbied against it
May 24 09:31:07 <kblin> so if you have a gas station with an attached supermarket you can open on sunday, but if you're a normal supermarket you can't
May 24 09:31:26 <kblin> obviously god likes gas stations ;)
May 24 09:55:22 <ogra_cmpc> heh
May 24 09:55:42 * ogra_cmpc just found out why his touchbook batteries didnt charge
May 24 09:55:56 <ogra_cmpc> apparetnly you can only charge it while its running
May 24 09:58:08 <hrw> common problem with cheap hardware
May 24 09:59:52 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: I'm guessing they have a driver to do charging then?
May 24 10:00:15 <ogra_cmpc> apparently
May 24 10:00:50 <ogra_cmpc> i wish the NIC would work :(
May 24 10:03:02 <XorA> quit complaining, at least you have one to play with :-D
May 24 10:03:16 <hrw> ok, lets plug some dongles and report bugs against linux-omap-ti
May 24 10:03:22 <lool> linux-ti-omap
May 24 10:03:38 <hrw> right - have it open in browser
May 24 10:03:46 <hrw> test1: rt2570
May 24 10:03:53 <lool> ogra_cmpc: Yes, on N900 the phone actually boots in a special mode when charging the batteires
May 24 10:04:10 <ogra_cmpc> well, its supposed to be a rt2879
May 24 10:04:12 <ogra_cmpc> err
May 24 10:04:15 <ogra_cmpc> 2870
May 24 10:04:32 <hrw> ogra: no, I have rt2570 and rt3072 here
May 24 10:04:44 <ogra_cmpc> loading the shipped module in OE doesnt get me a device
May 24 10:04:50 <hrw> ah
May 24 10:05:14 <ogra_cmpc> and plugging the device into an x86 system also only gets me errors in dmesg
May 24 10:05:25 <ogra_cmpc> i suspect the HW is dead
May 24 10:05:56 <hrw> let me check
May 24 10:06:23 <ogra_cmpc> plugging in my zd1211rw NIC makes the system shut down ... i guess i need to charge some more hours
May 24 10:06:32 <hrw> ok, got same in desktop. shit... it was working
May 24 10:06:43 <hrw> 6€ turned to dust
May 24 10:07:04 <ogra_cmpc> sadly OE only ships that single one USB wlan NIC driver :(
May 24 10:07:08 <hrw> will check under maverick kernel later (on desktop)
May 24 10:07:56 <ogra_cmpc> so even if it wouldnt shut down, my zd1211rw wouldnt work :(
May 24 10:08:18 <ogra_cmpc> without network its a pretty useless thing ...
May 24 10:09:04 * amitk boots a 2.6.34 maverick kernel on the beagle
May 24 10:09:18 * ogra_cmpc is envious
May 24 10:10:32 <hrw> amitk: share
May 24 10:10:56 <ogra_cmpc> will surely be in the archive soon
May 24 10:11:09 <hrw> cool
May 24 10:11:47 <hrw> rt3072 under lucid/desktop suxx
May 24 10:13:01 <ogra_cmpc> geez
May 24 10:13:03 <neure> erm
May 24 10:13:14 <neure> i cant get ARM/BeagleNetInstall to work
May 24 10:13:21 * ogra_cmpc reads the AI FAQ
May 24 10:13:27 <neure> fatload mmc 0 0x82000000 boot.scr says 227 bytes read
May 24 10:13:39 <neure> source 0x82000000 says Unknown command 'source'
May 24 10:14:01 <ogra_cmpc> "My batteries does not seem to charge ..."
May 24 10:14:06 <ogra_cmpc> "With a voltmeter, check the voltage of pin 7 of the battery connector"
May 24 10:14:09 <ogra_cmpc> oh my
May 24 10:14:26 <ogra_cmpc> neure, ouch, your u-boot is to old i guess
May 24 10:14:59 <ogra_cmpc> neure, open the boot.scr file in vi on your desktop and type in the lines manually
May 24 10:16:07 <ogra_cmpc> ugh
May 24 10:16:14 <ogra_cmpc> "Your wifi dongle may not work. Try to plug it into another USB port an wait a minute: the LED should blink. If not, please reinstall your OS"
May 24 10:16:27 <amitk> hrw: display is broken, dss2 patch was merged only after 2.6.34, cherry-picking now...
May 24 10:16:28 <ogra_cmpc> reinstall your OS, yah
May 24 10:16:34 <persia> Oh my.  That:s not a good recommedation.
May 24 10:16:49 <ogra_cmpc> persia, the AI FAQ is full of that stuff
May 24 10:17:00 <ogra_cmpc> grab your voltmeter ... reinstall your OS
May 24 10:17:32 <persia> Right.  Need to get those folk off email and in here and then everything should work
May 24 10:17:33 <ogra_cmpc> hahah
May 24 10:17:36 <ogra_cmpc> There seems to be something loose in my bottom part
May 24 10:17:36 <ogra_cmpc> You might have a loose counterweight: you can easily re-glue it by un-mounting your bottom part
May 24 10:18:14 <neure> ogra, could you pastebin that http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/lucid/main/installer-armel/current/images/omap/netboot/omap/boot.scr somewhere for me?
May 24 10:18:21 <neure> i cant seem to see it properly in windows :/
May 24 10:19:26 <neure> hmm i think i can read this somehow..
May 24 10:20:21 <ogra_cmpc> fatload mmc 0:1 0x80000000 uImage
May 24 10:20:21 <ogra_cmpc> fatload mmc 0:1 0x82000000 uInitrd
May 24 10:20:21 <ogra_cmpc> setenv bootargs vram=12M omapfb.mode=dvi:1280x720MR-16@60
May 24 10:20:21 <ogra_cmpc> bootm 0x80000000 0x82000000
May 24 10:21:51 <neurre> :/
May 24 10:22:17 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: what do you think about a feature in flash-kernel where it can flash to a different area in flash, so that if the new/test kernel is broken, I can stop uboot autobooting and point it to the alternate (old) address for a working kernel
May 24 10:22:46 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, planned for maverick already
May 24 10:23:03 * amitk ^5s ogra_cmpc 
May 24 10:23:18 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, since we will provide preinstalled SD images its no prob to keep a uImage.bak in place in the vfat partition
May 24 10:23:28 <persia> amitk: Mind you, if you implement it first/faster, that's lovely :)
May 24 10:23:44 <neurre> i still cant get keyboard work :/
May 24 10:23:51 <ogra_cmpc> we wont use NAND in maverick (since most OMAP4 devicdes we'll suppport dont have NAND)
May 24 10:24:28 <persia> Rather, we won't use NAND for any images, or by default.  No reason we can't have support there.
May 24 10:24:36 * amitk better figure out why mmc isn't working in the 2.6.34 kernel then :)
May 24 10:24:38 <persia> In fact, that makes it significantly easier to do other stuff later.
May 24 10:24:59 <ogra_cmpc> we wont use NAND at all in flash-kernel with the new images
May 24 10:26:08 <amitk> neurre: are you connected via your usb-hub to the ehci port of beagle?
May 24 10:30:23 <neure> if netinstall fails, what is the next best option
May 24 10:30:34 <persia> SD install
May 24 10:30:44 <neure> url?
May 24 10:32:14 <amitk> neure: what reason for the failure?
May 24 10:32:46 <neure> amitk, when i boot the netinstall image on my C2 beagle, usb does not seem to work
May 24 10:32:56 <neure> usb works when i boot to ångström
May 24 10:33:10 <neure> this is powered usb hub on miniusb
May 24 10:33:28 <neure> so im stuck at the language selection screen in the beginnin
May 24 10:35:01 <neure> amitk, any suggestions?
May 24 10:35:09 <persia> neure: Do you want GTK, Qt, or server?
May 24 10:35:14 <amitk> neurre: is your keyboard connected via your usb-hub to the ehci port of beagle?
May 24 10:35:24 <neure> persia, i just want X
May 24 10:35:32 <neure> amitk, usb-hub
May 24 10:35:44 <neure> powered usb hub
May 24 10:35:48 <amitk> neure: where is the usb hub connected?
May 24 10:35:52 <persia> neure: OK.  For SD install, we have two images that have X, one with GTK and one with Qt.
May 24 10:35:57 <amitk> to the ehci port or the smaller otg port?
May 24 10:36:03 <neure> amitk, the smaller usb connector on the board
May 24 10:36:08 <neure> smaller one
May 24 10:36:16 <neure> the normal looking usb port has nothing in it
May 24 10:36:18 <amitk> neure: that is broken ATM, see bug list
May 24 10:36:33 <neure> amitk, so, what should i do?
May 24 10:37:10 <amitk> neure: if you can fix it, I'll take patches. Otherwise, you'll have to wait while we fix that bug.
May 24 10:37:14 <neure> persia, which one has less space wasted?)
May 24 10:37:25 <neure> can i use preinstalled images?
May 24 10:37:51 <persia> neure: They're about the same size: you can look at manifests at http://releases.ubuntu.com/lucid/ or http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/ports/releases/lucid/release/
May 24 10:37:51 <neure> i hate those huge borders in ångström enlightenment
May 24 10:38:02 <ogra_cmpc> neure, you should use the netinstall image but using the OTG port wont work, use a powered hub on the big USB port
May 24 10:38:02 <neure> persia, i was talking about wasted screen pixels :)
May 24 10:38:03 <persia> There are no preinstalled images available.
May 24 10:38:28 <neure> ah
May 24 10:38:39 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: the B2 boards don't have the ehci port populated, I believe. So he is out of luck
May 24 10:38:40 <neure> so if i'd use usb hub on normal usb, it'd work?
May 24 10:38:49 <neure> i have C2
May 24 10:38:50 <persia> I think the Qt interface scales better, but it requires 2D accelleration to be acceptable.  The GTK interface breaks down at less than 1024x600, but works with no accel
May 24 10:38:54 <neure> not B2
May 24 10:38:55 <ogra_cmpc> neure, and a proper power supply on the board itself since the C2/3 have HW issuess otherwise
May 24 10:39:05 <neure> i have proper power supply
May 24 10:39:09 <ogra_cmpc> ok
May 24 10:39:28 <ogra_cmpc> then just plug your powered hub into the big USB port and it should just work
May 24 10:39:52 <ogra_cmpc> the OTG port is not supported in the lucid kernel as amitk said above
May 24 10:40:50 <persia> The port is entirely unsupported, or it fails to work in one or the other mode?
May 24 10:41:11 <ogra_cmpc> entirely unsupported with that kernel version
May 24 10:41:24 <persia> Ugh.  That's awkward.
May 24 10:45:06 <neure> i had to take one usb hub from my computer
May 24 10:45:12 <neure> i had two in a chain
May 24 10:45:15 <hrw> ok, I will not fight with ogra or amitk but OTG works in lucid 10.04 kernel on C3 BB
May 24 10:45:25 <neure> this usb hub is bigger than the beagleboard itself :D
May 24 10:45:29 <neure> it's HUGE
May 24 10:45:46 <persia> hrw: Maybe different chip revs?
May 24 10:46:05 <neure> great, now that i moved usb serial thing to new usb port.. it's now COM6 :D
May 24 10:46:27 <hrw> neure: my desktop has 7 serials out-of-box
May 24 10:46:52 <amitk> hrw: Are you sure you run the ubuntu kernel? CONFIG_USB_MUSB_OTG is disabled on it...
May 24 10:47:23 <neure> hrw, my "desktop" is macbook running windows xp with.. 2 usb ports :D
May 24 10:48:20 <neure> now, i did not get that error
May 24 10:48:27 <neure> lets see if keyboard will work ..
May 24 10:48:34 <neure> yes
May 24 10:48:35 <neure> \o/
May 24 10:49:06 <hrw> amitk: fun... I could swear that I installed on otg
May 24 10:49:32 <XorA> hrw: switch in Angstrom kernel, do install :-D
May 24 10:49:53 <neure> netinstall proceeds :)
May 24 10:50:20 <amitk> lunch-time
May 24 10:50:20 <hrw> XorA: I have ubuntu installed
May 24 10:50:29 <hrw> XorA: 0.22uF capacitor hack helps
May 24 10:50:42 <hrw> amitk: smacznego
May 24 10:51:16 <XorA> hrw: my usb died completely, but I have Lucid on my omap4430
May 24 10:51:21 <amitk> hrw: thanks!
May 24 10:51:26 <XorA> which is the worlds hugest board
May 24 10:51:45 <amitk> XorA: is that the OMAP4 SDP?
May 24 10:52:09 <XorA> amitk: yes
May 24 10:52:21 <XorA> amitk: took my rootstocked image and used custom kernel
May 24 10:52:57 <neure> erm
May 24 10:53:03 <neure> it doesnt detect my network :/
May 24 10:53:31 <neure> i get a redscreen during netinstall coz my network is not detected :/
May 24 10:55:04 <neure> :(
May 24 10:56:06 <ogra_cmpc> might be that we are missing some drivers here
May 24 10:56:42 <ogra_cmpc> a) file a bug with the exact description of your NIC so we can fix it in maverick, b) use the server image
May 24 10:57:15 <neure> its some logilink usb 2.0 to fast ethernet thing i have
May 24 10:57:19 <ogra_cmpc> (or the netbook one)
May 24 10:57:19 <persia> Will the server image help?  I thought it was the same initramfs as the netinstall image.
May 24 10:57:35 <ogra_cmpc> it doesnt neet network :)
May 24 10:57:36 <neure> it was in the beagleboard box
May 24 10:57:40 <persia> Or do you mean: perform the install without network, get network working, install X.
May 24 10:57:49 <neure> ok where do i get server image?
May 24 10:57:54 <ogra_cmpc> network works fine once the kernel is installed
May 24 10:58:03 <ogra_cmpc> there are issues with the udeb
May 24 10:58:12 <ogra_cmpc> neure, same wikipage
May 24 10:58:47 <neure> i rebooted..
May 24 10:58:49 <ogra_cmpc> neure, note though that you need a usb disk/key to install to
May 24 10:59:01 <neure> got one
May 24 10:59:10 <persia> Um, the lucid server image seems to have gone missing, unfortunately :(
May 24 10:59:14 <ogra_cmpc> netinst is the only one that can diretly install to the SD you booted from
May 24 10:59:44 <neure> so what, there is no server image?
May 24 10:59:49 <persia> No.  Just odd URL: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/lucid/release/
May 24 10:59:50 <neure> so now what?-|
May 24 10:59:58 <neure> thx!
May 24 11:00:01 <neure> will try that now
May 24 11:00:13 * persia was expecting http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/ports/releases/lucid/release/
May 24 11:00:22 <neure> erm
May 24 11:00:25 <neure> which image?
May 24 11:00:36 <neure> armel+omap
May 24 11:00:36 <persia> Texas Instruments OMAP server install image
May 24 11:00:37 <ogra_cmpc> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/lucid/release/
May 24 11:00:41 <ogra_cmpc> right
May 24 11:01:08 <ogra_cmpc> nothing odd about that url
May 24 11:01:47 <neure> so once i have that .img.. what do i do with it?
May 24 11:01:51 * hrw -> lucnh
May 24 11:01:59 <ogra_cmpc> dd it to the SD card
May 24 11:02:15 <neure> device?
May 24 11:02:26 <ogra_cmpc> ?
May 24 11:02:33 <neure> dd to /dev/sdb ?
May 24 11:02:45 <ogra_cmpc> if sdb is your sd card, yes
May 24 11:02:50 <persia> Depends on how your SD is mapped, really.
May 24 11:03:14 <neure> and why would i need usb stick?
May 24 11:03:23 <ogra_cmpc> to install to
May 24 11:03:33 <ogra_cmpc> the img is an installer image
May 24 11:03:37 <neure> and thats the destination where it will be running?)
May 24 11:03:43 <ogra_cmpc> right
May 24 11:03:51 <neure> so i wont need sdcard after?
May 24 11:04:00 <neure> it well keep booting from the usb key?
May 24 11:04:16 <ogra_cmpc> it will start from NAND and boot the OS from USB, right
May 24 11:04:38 <neure> not exactly ideal
May 24 11:04:47 <neure> is there any other way?
May 24 11:05:12 <ogra_cmpc> only wiht the netinstall, that will boot from NAND and then be able to run the OS from SD
May 24 11:05:33 <ogra_cmpc> but you will need a different NIC for it apparetnly
May 24 11:05:42 <neure> :/
May 24 11:06:04 <neure> would be great to have install from usbkey
May 24 11:06:09 <ogra_cmpc> all will get better in maverick with the preinstalled images :)
May 24 11:06:28 <ogra_cmpc> they will just run from SD directly
May 24 11:07:00 <ogra_cmpc> so your thrid option would be to wait 6 months *g*
May 24 11:07:31 <neure> this is AU0025C
May 24 11:07:37 <persia> neure: The main blocker to install-from-USB is the lack of support for it on the hardware.
May 24 11:08:05 <neure> really?
May 24 11:08:06 <persia> neure: if you want to play, and you have NAND, you can try to put the bootloader in NAND, and then have that boot from USB, but it might be tricky.
May 24 11:08:24 <ogra_cmpc> well, thats what we currently do post install
May 24 11:08:28 <persia> Yeah, the ROM in the processor on that chip can only load the bootloader from MMC or NAND.
May 24 11:08:42 <ogra_cmpc> but pre-install you have to rely on the possibilities the HW offers
May 24 11:08:57 <persia> ogra_cmpc: I thought it was still bootloader-on-MMC postinstall: glad to hear it's not.
May 24 11:09:10 <ogra_cmpc> nah, we have kernel and initrd in NAND
May 24 11:09:20 <ogra_cmpc> so we can boot off whatever device we want
May 24 11:09:32 <persia> Well, no.
May 24 11:09:34 <ogra_cmpc> we could even do bluetooth NFS
May 24 11:09:44 <ogra_cmpc> :)
May 24 11:09:46 <persia> When you put kernel and initrd in NAND, you mostly boot off NAND.
May 24 11:10:04 <ogra_cmpc> but your rootfs can live wherever you want
May 24 11:10:11 <persia> The location of root is completely arbitrary, but that's mounted post-boot
May 24 11:10:17 <persia> Right.
May 24 11:10:17 <ogra_cmpc> right
May 24 11:10:35 * persia is quibbling about nomenclature and semantics, but likes that NAND is used
May 24 11:10:48 <ogra_cmpc> well, not anymore after lucid
May 24 11:10:59 <neure> where should i file the bug report about the missing driver?
May 24 11:11:02 <neure> http://www.itbank.us/Logilink+UA0025C/
May 24 11:11:05 <neure> thats the device i have
May 24 11:11:15 <ogra_cmpc> neure, launchpad against linux-ti-omap
May 24 11:11:30 <ogra_cmpc> mention that its missing in the udeb package
May 24 11:11:37 <persia> neure: Best if you can run `ubuntu-bug linux-ti-omap` from the board, with the nonfunctional device attached.
May 24 11:11:44 <ogra_cmpc> haha
May 24 11:11:49 <ogra_cmpc> without network :P
May 24 11:11:54 <persia> Sure.
May 24 11:12:17 <persia> the way it works is that it prepares a report, and then, if you don't have X, gives instructions for getting that offline and filing the bug.
May 24 11:12:27 <ogra_cmpc> sure
May 24 11:12:37 <neure> well
May 24 11:12:41 <ogra_cmpc> its easier to do it via the web interface though
May 24 11:12:43 <neure> first i would need to INSTALL :)
May 24 11:12:51 <persia> So you copy the files containing the report details, and then do something like apport-submit (I forget: instructions for the process are part of the process), which submits the right stuff.
May 24 11:12:52 <ogra_cmpc> for a simple omission in the udeb at least
May 24 11:13:05 <persia> But less complete :)
May 24 11:13:12 <persia> Anyway.
May 24 11:13:16 <ogra_cmpc> we only need info about the NIC
May 24 11:13:37 <ogra_cmpc> and we most likely have the module in the std kernel package
May 24 11:13:52 <ogra_cmpc> its just about making sure it ends up in the udeb
May 24 11:14:04 <neure> lsusb in vmware says Bus 001 Device 002: ID 9710:7830 MosChip Semiconductor MCS7830 Ethernet
May 24 11:14:12 <neure> is that sufficient?
May 24 11:14:27 <ogra_cmpc> yeah
May 24 11:14:37 <neure> url for filing a bug?
May 24 11:14:37 <ogra_cmpc> moschip only has one driver
May 24 11:14:43 <ogra_cmpc> launchpad
May 24 11:14:46 <neure> and its not included?
May 24 11:15:20 <ogra_cmpc> it isnt in the udeb package which the installer uses
May 24 11:15:34 <ogra_cmpc> it is the the actual kernel after installation
May 24 11:16:16 <neure> i should first search if it is already registered as a bug?
May 24 11:22:25 <neure> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ti-omap/+bug/584920
May 24 11:22:27 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 584920 in linux-ti-omap (Ubuntu) "netinstall fails, it has no network driver for moschip (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
May 24 11:22:27 <neure> there
May 24 11:25:46 <ogra_cmpc> ah, great
May 24 11:26:52 <neure> since this was in the beagleboard box that we bought, i would expect there are other ppl with the same adapter
May 24 11:27:03 <neure> unfortunately it also comes with the
May 24 11:27:20 <neure> otg usb hub :/
May 24 11:27:42 <ogra_cmpc> in maverick everything will be better
May 24 11:27:55 <ogra_cmpc> we only had three weeks to build the lucid image
May 24 11:27:56 <neure> well i need this working today :)
May 24 11:28:05 <ogra_cmpc> it will work after install
May 24 11:28:18 <neure> well i will endup running it from the usb stick :D
May 24 11:28:19 <ogra_cmpc> just use the server image and it will be fine after installation
May 24 11:28:24 <ogra_cmpc> yeas
May 24 11:28:50 <neure> i just had sdcard bought for me
May 24 11:29:00 <neure> now i need to tell 'oops i need usb stick too' :D
May 24 11:29:14 <neure> but hmm
May 24 11:29:22 <neure> i could get even bigger usb stick?)
May 24 11:29:59 <ogra_cmpc> you can even use a real USB HDD
May 24 11:39:58 <neure> cool
May 24 11:40:06 <neure> looks like i can actually get a real usb hdd
May 24 11:40:20 <neure> is that possibly more performant than the sdcard?
May 24 11:41:11 <rcn-ee> depending on the usb hdd.. Yes. ;)
May 24 11:50:51 <kblin> it also won't wear out as fast
May 24 11:51:04 <neure> well
May 24 11:51:10 <neure> turns out i only got usb stick :/
May 24 11:51:19 <neure> well, more portable
May 24 11:51:46 <xorAxAx> are there NEON mplayer/ffmpeg packages for ubuntu lucid?
May 24 11:52:05 <kblin> so what I use is an sdcard for the system an put all the bigger data on /data
May 24 11:52:28 <kblin> which is, depending on the system either a usb stick, a usb hdd or a cifs network mount
May 24 11:55:01 <neure> ah, ok
May 24 11:55:07 <neure> so i can add that later, yeah
May 24 11:55:26 <neure> half way downloading network image
May 24 11:55:33 <neure> i mean server image
May 24 12:03:45 <neure> how does that dd work anyway?
May 24 12:03:51 <neure> my sdcard is 16gig
May 24 12:04:01 <neure> i can safely dd anything smaller that that to it?
May 24 12:04:12 <ogra_cmpc> yeas
May 24 12:11:07 <neure> just dd img -of=/dev/sdb or do i need something more?
May 24 12:11:32 <ogra_cmpc> dd if=/path/to/img of=/dev/sdb
May 24 12:11:39 <ogra_cmpc> (with sudo)
May 24 12:12:39 <neure> this is going to take a while ...
May 24 12:22:35 <neure> only 10 minutes :)
May 24 12:23:51 <neure> so..
May 24 12:23:57 <neure> how do i boot from this image?
May 24 12:24:28 <neure> mmcinit - init mmc card
May 24 12:24:33 <neure> ** Unable to use mmc 0:1 for fatload **
May 24 12:28:51 <neure> got ut
May 24 12:30:14 <neure> erm
May 24 12:30:28 <neure> the installer seems to hang
May 24 12:30:37 <neure> [!] Partition dsiks
May 24 12:30:56 <neure> Installation medium on /dev/mmcblk0p1
May 24 12:31:07 <neure> i dont seem to be able to get past that dialog
May 24 12:31:09 <ogra_cmpc> no, you want to use the usb disk
May 24 12:31:30 <neure> as installation medium?
May 24 12:31:38 <ogra_cmpc> asw target device
May 24 12:31:53 <neure> yeah but i cant get rid of this dialog
May 24 12:32:13 <neure> installer gets stuck there
May 24 12:32:19 <ogra_cmpc> it doesnt here
May 24 12:32:29 <ogra_cmpc> you should just be able to hit enter there
May 24 12:32:42 <neure> well i do, nothing happens
May 24 12:32:48 <ogra_cmpc> and then get to the partitioner
May 24 12:33:16 <ogra_cmpc> thats before the paritioner ?
May 24 12:33:42 <ogra_cmpc> (before it asks you to select a device for paritioning?)
May 24 12:33:46 <neure> yes
May 24 12:33:47 <neure> before
May 24 12:33:52 <ogra_cmpc> strange
May 24 12:34:10 <ogra_cmpc> and you are sure you have the USB key attached already ?
May 24 12:34:25 <neure> yes
May 24 12:34:34 <ogra_cmpc> it should really just tell you that mmc isnt a valid media to install to
May 24 12:34:47 <Martyn> morning
May 24 12:34:47 <ogra_cmpc> thats what happens on mz B3 and C4 at least
May 24 12:35:27 <neure> detecting disks...
May 24 12:35:28 <Martyn> ogra : do you think the 2.6.35 merge window will last as long as Jun 1?
May 24 12:35:32 <neure> starting up the partitioner
May 24 12:35:35 <neure> then i get this dialog
May 24 12:35:42 <neure> oh
May 24 12:35:43 <neure> now it worked
May 24 12:35:48 <neure> on second boot
May 24 12:36:11 <neure> what should i select?
May 24 12:36:15 <neure> guided - use entire disc?
May 24 12:36:21 <ogra_cmpc> yeah
May 24 12:36:22 <neure> its 16GB kingston usb stick
May 24 12:37:20 <neure> Failed to create a file system
May 24 12:37:29 <ogra_cmpc> ugh
May 24 12:37:55 <ogra_cmpc> Martyn, no idea, ask the kernel team
May 24 12:37:58 <Martyn> which image is neure using, on which hardware, out of curiosity?
May 24 12:37:58 <neure> The ext4 file system creation in partition #1 of /dev/sda failed.
May 24 12:38:05 <amitk> Martyn: doubtful, Linus should release the -rc1 this week IMO
May 24 12:38:14 <neure> beagleboard C2
May 24 12:38:16 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: can i use the versatile kernel to run the netinstall of the beagle initrd in qemu and then copy the resulting image file to an sd card?
May 24 12:38:34 <neure> image is ubuntu-10.04-server-armel+omap.img
May 24 12:38:34 <xorAxAx> (because i dont have an usb-ethernet card)
May 24 12:38:49 <ogra_cmpc> xorAxAx, well, you wont have a kernel in the target and your NAND wont be set up right
May 24 12:38:52 <neure> and when i get that red screen, keyboard no longer works
May 24 12:39:03 <Martyn> amit : damnit... i need one more week to get the mach-sstone patch ready
May 24 12:39:09 <ogra_cmpc> for creating a rootfs you can for sure use qemu netinstall
May 24 12:39:25 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: can i somehow manually execute those steps?
May 24 12:39:32 <ogra_cmpc> neure, but your hub is powered, right ?
May 24 12:39:44 <amitk> Martyn: you're assuming that the patches will be accepted in the first submission...
May 24 12:39:45 <neure> yes
May 24 12:39:48 <neure> it is powered
May 24 12:40:00 <Martyn> amitk : yes, i know
May 24 12:40:33 <ogra_cmpc> xorAxAx, for setting up the nand and kernel ? thats a bit tricky ... but you can look into the source of flash-kernel what it does for the beagle
May 24 12:41:48 <ogra_cmpc> xorAxAx, you should be able to use the netbook or the server image (at least thats properly tested on C3 and C4 beagles, looking at neure the C2 seems to have issues)
May 24 12:41:58 <ogra_cmpc> both dont need networking
May 24 12:42:10 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: but i want to install to the sd card
May 24 12:42:25 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: why isnt that possible using the server image?
May 24 12:42:40 <ogra_cmpc> because the installer runs from the SD
May 24 12:42:52 <ogra_cmpc> its not capable to install to the media it runs from
May 24 12:43:25 <neure> silly limitation
May 24 12:43:30 <ogra_cmpc> the netinst image copies the 10MB installer to ram after booting and doesnt need the SD afterwards ... the server install has all the packages on the SD
May 24 12:43:57 <ogra_cmpc> neure, well, add a gig of ram to your beagle and i can overcome that :P
May 24 12:44:22 <ogra_cmpc> if you have a whole package archive on the SD that needs to live somewhere
May 24 12:44:28 <neure> couldnt you use usb stick as a temp file system during installation or something like that?
May 24 12:44:36 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: can i run the server installer from an usb stick?
May 24 12:44:59 <ogra_cmpc> we could copy it to ram as the netinst installer does but that would require at least the amount of ram the SD carries as packages
May 24 12:45:11 <neure> and why not usb stick?
May 24 12:45:31 <neure> you could install the installer to usb first :)
May 24 12:45:36 <ogra_cmpc> xorAxAx, with some tricks you should be able to have the archive on usb, but dont ask me how
May 24 12:45:54 <ogra_cmpc> should be described in the debian installer docs somewhere
May 24 12:46:08 <ogra_cmpc> neure, because beagle cant boot from USb
May 24 12:46:14 <ogra_cmpc> we had that discussion before
May 24 12:46:22 <neure> ogra, it doesnt need to boot from there
May 24 12:46:30 <ogra_cmpc> for the installer it does
May 24 12:46:40 <neure> really?
May 24 12:46:47 <ogra_cmpc> the installer is the initrd
May 24 12:47:04 <ogra_cmpc> in case of debian-installer images (server and netinst)
May 24 12:47:20 <ogra_cmpc> so uImage and initrd need to come from SD
May 24 12:47:35 <ogra_cmpc> at least with this HW
May 24 12:48:13 <neure> but once loaded they dont need the sdcard
May 24 12:48:17 <lool> hrw: I've renamed the wiki page with the arm-m-cross-compilers spec to CrossCompilers instead of CrossCompilation
May 24 12:48:23 <lool> hrw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/M/ARMCrossCompilers
May 24 12:48:27 <lool> hrw: Also, did a large pass on it
May 24 12:48:30 <lool> hrw: Could you have a look?
May 24 12:48:35 <ogra_cmpc> there are tricks that you can tell d-i to use the archive from a different media
May 24 12:48:50 <ogra_cmpc> but as i said above you have to look them up in the d-i docs
May 24 12:49:08 <ogra_cmpc> and have to modify the image accordingly
May 24 12:49:10 <lool> hrw: If you're happy with the overall text, I'll add work items
May 24 12:50:02 <hrw> lool: in few minutes I will look
May 24 12:50:45 <lool> hrw: Once thing which we failed discussing is how the runtime libs should be named and packaged, either they could use the dpkg-cross namespace (package name and file locations), or the cross-compiler one; the latter seems safer, but it could confuse dpkg-cross later and means we have two runtime libs (one dpkg-crossed, the other cross-built) which is also confusing
May 24 12:55:12 <hrw> or we move to sysroot and keep all crossarch stuff in sysroot only. maybe will require adaptations in dpkg-cross to follow. and I would follow dpkg-cross naming of packages
May 24 12:55:34 <hrw> but would be nice to have 'cross/' section maybe for them
May 24 12:56:16 <neure> cross?
May 24 12:56:17 <neure> "no, we do not cross compile"
May 24 12:57:03 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: what if i install to a usb storage device which is a sd-card and then later plug the sd card into the beagle, will it still find the root fs?
May 24 12:57:33 <hrw> xorAxAx: UUID is same so it should
May 24 12:57:45 <xorAxAx> ok
May 24 12:57:46 <lool> hrw: What does moving to a third location gain us?
May 24 12:58:29 <lool> Besides the location is only half of the problem, the other namespace issue is with package names, dpkg-cross also converts dependencies
May 24 13:01:25 <hrw> lool: location is small problem which can be solved in any way. naming/deps are more important. I think that it depends on how much multiarch ubuntu will be. so far on x86-64 we have ia32-* packages for 32bit compatibility and they are stored in defined places and have own deps. but they are also ugly.
May 24 13:02:15 <hrw> lool: dpkg-cross way gives simple visibility which pacakges are cross ones but require all that converting (which can be also done at build time of packages if we will go that way)
May 24 13:02:53 <hrw> lool: I mean: how to show that libpng12 is x86-64 (host) or armel (cross)...
May 24 13:06:33 <lool> hrw: Multiarch isn't in the picture yet; we know that's what we want in the end, but it's not available right now
May 24 13:06:43 <lool> hrw: ia32-libs is horrible
May 24 13:13:19 * ogra_cmpc dances ...
May 24 13:13:26 <ogra_cmpc> finally got the touchbook booting
May 24 13:13:47 <hrw> and I got auto-serial-console working in a way wanted
May 24 13:31:54 <lool> hrw: Are you happy with the wiki page?
May 24 13:32:13 <hrw> yes, I am
May 24 13:47:08 <neure> now im trying again with a different usb stick
May 24 13:49:58 <neure> also fails for another partition :D
May 24 13:50:02 <neure> i mean stick
May 24 13:52:17 <rsavoye> lool: personally, I prefer sysroot too. nice wiki page
May 24 13:54:37 <ogra_cmpc> neure, but it is listed in the partitioner ?
May 24 13:56:29 <neure> fuck
May 24 13:56:37 <neure> i switched to another usb hub
May 24 13:57:00 <neure> now the usb hub i tried on beagle .. is giving me issues on the pc :D
May 24 13:57:15 <neure> like, mouse is not working through it :D
May 24 13:57:30 <ogra_cmpc> well, the C2 definately has USB power issues
May 24 13:57:33 <neure> now it is
May 24 13:58:23 <ogra_cmpc> see http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#EHCI
May 24 13:58:42 <lool> hrw: BTW did you manage to build an emdebian style cross-compiler using the Ubuntu sources?
May 24 13:58:51 <hrw> yes, I did
May 24 13:59:30 <rsavoye> hrw: did you hit the configure problem with libstdc++ and libiberty ?
May 24 13:59:51 <hrw> rsavoye: during build of gcc? nope
May 24 13:59:58 <rsavoye> no c++ ?
May 24 14:00:27 <hrw> g++-4.4-arm-linux-gnueabi_4.4.3-4ubuntu5_amd64.deb
May 24 14:01:38 <hrw> I built gcc, g++, gfortran, gobcj, gobcj++
May 24 14:01:56 <rsavoye> using the code sourcery patches ?
May 24 14:02:40 <hrw> no, ubuntu sources
May 24 14:03:08 <hrw> I plan to recreate it from scratch tomorrow anyway
May 24 14:03:19 <rsavoye> I'd have to check, mostly I'm just curious as I use FSF sources
May 24 14:04:12 <neure> oh dear
May 24 14:19:36 <lool> hrw: Do you have some tasks you feel like you can attack already with the cross-toolchains?
May 24 14:21:11 <hrw> lool: was thinking about dropping dh_movefiles for start and then looking how binary-cross is made
May 24 14:22:16 <hrw> lool: sysroot changes from 4.5 would be nice to have in 4.4 but did not looked at 4.5 yet
May 24 14:29:41 <lool> Hmm ok, movefiles was actually assigned to me
May 24 14:30:29 <hrw> ok, can skip it
May 24 14:33:30 <ogra_cmpc> mumble
May 24 14:33:46 <ogra_cmpc> so i got a working kernel but the screen shuts off after some minutes
May 24 14:34:15 <armin76> energy saving feature :D
May 24 14:34:43 <ogra_cmpc> i wish it would be that easy
May 24 14:40:29 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: oops?
May 24 14:40:57 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, yes, but unrelated to the framebuffer
May 24 14:41:26 <ogra_cmpc> arch/arm/mach-omap2/dpll.c:439 omap3_noncore_dpll_set_rate+0x220/0x264()
May 24 14:41:54 <ogra_cmpc> seems it doesnt like that i picked performance as governor at compile time
May 24 14:42:04 <ogra_cmpc> but its unrelated to the screen
May 24 14:42:30 <ogra_cmpc> (note that is the 2.6.34 touchbook tree i'm trying here)
May 24 14:43:15 <amitk> should be unrelated to the governor, but a real bug in the dpll code (that could take down the dss on its way down)
May 24 14:44:21 <ogra_cmpc> if i start/restart gdm i see some message about GFX underrun
May 24 14:44:31 <ogra_cmpc> saldy that doesnt show up in any log
May 24 14:46:13 <ogra_cmpc> aha !
May 24 14:46:20 <ogra_cmpc> this time it wrote to dmesg
May 24 14:46:21 <ogra_cmpc> [ 3859.026519] omapdss DISPC error: GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW, disabling GFX
May 24 14:47:24 <ogra_cmpc> hmm, and the screen didnt shut down yet i still see my xterm
May 24 14:47:40 <ogra_cmpc> wow and the touchscreen works out of the box
May 24 14:48:22 <ogra_cmpc> so apparently issuing xset dpms force on and restarting gdm made it work
May 24 14:49:08 * ogra_cmpc is brave and installs ubuntu-netbook
May 24 14:49:51 <ogra_cmpc> i hope the 4G SD card is sufficiant
May 24 14:51:39 * robclark|pb finds 4gb a bit small once you install build-essentials and a handful of builddeps..
May 24 14:52:01 <ogra_cmpc> yeah, its only a test setup to get a touchbook image together
May 24 14:52:08 <ogra_cmpc> i wont really do work on it
May 24 14:52:54 <ogra_cmpc> basically i just want a std ubuntu install to work on the touchbook
May 24 14:52:55 <ogra_cmpc> that SD is supposed to be my reference
May 24 14:54:00 <persia> ogra_cmpc: How much variance do you see?  Do you expect that we could have a single image that worked on that and on the beagles?
May 24 14:54:21 <ogra_cmpc> persia, not until someone uinfies u-boot
May 24 14:54:55 <persia> Oh, heh.  same problem as always
May 24 14:55:09 <ogra_cmpc> persia, but the pkan is to provide a script or at least a wikipage to replace MLO and u-boot on the maverick preinstall images we,ll provide
May 24 14:55:12 <ogra_cmpc> since amitk fights for a unified kernel at least :)
May 24 14:55:12 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: having a brain freeze here, what is the program that writes the kernel/initrd to nand on beagle? flash-kernel?
May 24 14:55:16 * persia omits a repitition of the the extended whining about the parlourous state of bootloaders
May 24 14:55:23 <persia> amitk: Yes
May 24 14:55:45 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, in lucid and later its update-initramfs calling flash-kernel
May 24 14:56:07 <ogra_cmpc> before it was the kernel posinst via kernel-img.conf
May 24 14:56:23 <amitk> what package?
May 24 14:56:40 <ogra_cmpc> kernel-img.conf doesnt come from any package afaik
May 24 14:56:45 <ogra_cmpc> its cretaed by the installer
May 24 14:56:58 <persia> Indeed, it is.
May 24 14:57:12 <ogra_cmpc> the ac tual work is done by flash-kernel though
May 24 14:57:20 <amitk> no, I meant flash-kernel. I want to find out the commands and addresses you write the kernel to
May 24 14:57:30 <ogra_cmpc> and the flash-kernel-installer.postinst which is used by d-i/ubiquity
May 24 14:57:55 <ogra_cmpc> ah
May 24 14:58:13 <ogra_cmpc> look at debian/flash-kernel-installer.postinst in the flash-kernel source then
May 24 14:58:13 <ogra_cmpc> it sets up the adresses etc
May 24 14:58:27 * amitk is trying to rescue a broken (test) kernel upgrade
May 24 14:58:35 <ogra_cmpc> ow
May 24 14:58:59 * ogra_cmpc checks the source
May 24 14:59:10 <persia> Isn't flash-kernel-installer.postinst basically just a reimplmentation of flash-kernel for use in a udeb?
May 24 15:00:07 <ogra_cmpc> persia, nope
May 24 15:00:15 <ogra_cmpc> its doing all the setup for flash-kernel
May 24 15:01:21 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, so basically its just writing to the mtdblock device that holds the kernel
May 24 15:01:22 <ogra_cmpc> dd if=/dev/zero of=$kmtd bs=$kmtdsize count=1
May 24 15:01:22 <ogra_cmpc> cat $tmp.uboot > $kmtd
May 24 15:01:39 <ogra_cmpc> $kmtd is the mtdblock device that is labeled as Kernel in /proc/mtd
May 24 15:01:50 <ogra_cmpc> and $tmp.uboot is the uImage
May 24 15:02:59 <ogra_cmpc> and $mtdsize is the size of the mdtblock device in bytes
May 24 15:03:09 <ogra_cmpc> *$kmtdsize
May 24 15:03:37 <ogra_cmpc> and that part is definately in flash-kernel not the installer
May 24 15:04:03 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: and initramfs?
May 24 15:04:16 <ogra_cmpc> same thing
May 24 15:04:52 <amitk> ohh, they probably use offset
May 24 15:05:06 <ogra_cmpc> but its using the "File System" space for the uInitrd
May 24 15:05:22 <ogra_cmpc> using a fixed size of 16777216 bytes
May 24 15:05:31 <ogra_cmpc> (for zeroing it)
May 24 15:05:54 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: What is "File system" space?
May 24 15:06:07 <ogra_cmpc> cat /proc/mtd
May 24 15:06:12 <ogra_cmpc> try that
May 24 15:07:19 <ogra_cmpc> you should get u-boot, u-boot config, kernel and file system
May 24 15:07:40 <ogra_cmpc> the device labeled filesystem is the one we use for initrd
May 24 15:08:06 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: I'm at uboot prompt, transferred over a kernel using ymodem. Now hoping to flash that to nand
May 24 15:08:13 <ogra_cmpc> oh
May 24 15:08:16 <ogra_cmpc> no idea
May 24 15:08:29 <ogra_cmpc> i always do it from a running system
May 24 15:08:40 <ogra_cmpc> i guess i have to refer you to the beagle wiki
May 24 15:08:56 <amitk> could I do it from initramfs? (I don't think so)
May 24 15:09:05 <ogra_cmpc> you should be able to
May 24 15:09:19 <ogra_cmpc> as soon as the /dev/mtdblock* nodes exost
May 24 15:09:24 <ogra_cmpc> exists
May 24 15:09:54 <armin76> ssvb: cosmicparrot :D
May 24 15:11:17 <hrw> did someone built maverick's gcc-4.4 for armel? ports.ubuntu.com has it but no libstdc++ package
May 24 15:11:34 <ogra_cmpc> i think doko uploaded it, yes
May 24 15:12:28 <ogra_cmpc> should be named libstdc++6 though
May 24 15:12:56 <hrw> yes, but there is -dbg, -pic, -dev but no lib
May 24 15:13:01 <hrw> anyway I will rebuild it here
May 24 15:13:09 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: the problem is that the test kernel broke mmc :-/
May 24 15:13:19 <persia> hrw: Check the build log: maybe something fixable went wrong.
May 24 15:13:26 <hrw> k
May 24 15:14:22 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, ouch, you could x/yload kernel and initramfs and boot from ram though
May 24 15:15:01 <ogra_cmpc> hrw, http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/g/gcc-4.4/libstdc++6-4.4-dev_4.4.4-2ubuntu2_armel.deb
May 24 15:15:11 <ogra_cmpc> built may 19
May 24 15:15:34 <hrw> facepalm...
May 24 15:16:37 <ogra_cmpc> hmm, only -dev though
May 24 15:16:42 <ogra_cmpc> and -pic
May 24 15:17:07 <hrw> ~curse apt-cross
May 24 15:17:14 <ogra_cmpc> there is no non-pic version
May 24 15:21:03 <hrw> exactly
May 24 15:21:39 <ogra_cmpc> well, as persia said and also ask doko
May 24 15:21:52 <hrw> yep
May 24 15:22:47 <xorAxAx> anybody knows what i need to pass on the kernel param line to get omapfb run on s-video out?
May 24 15:23:35 <ojn> xorAxAx: Check on #beagle or #linux-omap?
May 24 15:24:54 <lool> hrw: the runtime libs are built from gcc-4.5 in maverick
May 24 15:25:29 <hrw> thx
May 24 15:26:03 <lool> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcc-4.5/4.5.0-3ubuntu1 has links to the .debs
May 24 15:26:48 <ogra_cmpc> now /me facepalms :P
May 24 15:34:14 <lool> hrw: I added work items to https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-cross-compilers the dh_movefiles action was originally assigned to me, but I don't mind if you pick it up
May 24 15:35:05 <amitk> hrw: ogra: 2.6.34-based omap3 kernel - display and usb works, nand driver broken, but xubuntu works fine. Find it here -> http://people.canonical.com/~amitk/ti/
May 24 15:36:00 <hrw> lool: tomorrow I will rebuild toolchain with maverick sources and then start from movefiles
May 24 15:36:04 <amitk> it looks "good enough" to start the maverick cycle, IMHO
May 24 15:37:46 <hrw> amitk: fetching
May 24 15:50:28 <ogra_cmpc> amitk, thats beagle only ? or did you add any other nofty HW support
May 24 15:50:36 <ogra_cmpc> *nifty
May 24 15:51:31 <amitk> ogra_cmpc: nothing notably new, except for OTG support (I have no HW to test though). Once this is verified on beagles, we can start playing with more features.
May 24 15:51:58 <hrw> amitk: during UDS persia was giving otg host cables
May 24 15:52:07 <lool> JamieBennett: It seems one can retarget blueprints to a different project
May 24 15:52:17 <lool> JamieBennett: I wonder whether it would make sense to move the bps back to /ubuntu
May 24 15:52:30 <lool> It would give us all the regular milestones
May 24 15:52:57 * persia suspects this would make it easier to collaborate effectively
May 24 15:58:27 * hrw -> off
May 24 15:58:31 <hrw> have a nice rest of day
May 24 16:10:44 <JamieBennett> lool: That is possible, I'm not completely convinced its the right option though
May 24 16:22:15 <DanaG1> hmm, is a headless box supposed to automount usb drives?
May 24 16:23:48 <DanaG1> ah, usbmount just didn't use ntfs.
May 24 16:30:32 <persia> JamieBennett: What would it take to convince you?
May 24 16:32:28 <DanaG1> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=321694#17
May 24 16:32:30 <ubot2> Debian bug 321694 in usbmount "usbmount: use vendor/model in mountpoints" [Wishlist,Open]
May 24 16:43:23 <persia> DanaG1: I'm really tempted to mark that Won'tFix, for several reasons.  Firstly, I have several devices with the *same* vendor/modle that I use simultaneously.  Secondly, I have other devices with nice names I want to keep.  Thirdly, I think most users would be confused.
May 24 16:43:32 <persia> Please rebut, and I'll delay doing that :)
May 24 16:47:59 * zyga enjoys evening working spree :-)
May 24 16:48:25 <lool> JamieBennett: Do you have some time for a call?
May 24 17:41:32 <NCommander> ndec: you around?
May 24 18:27:01 <lool> NCommander: national holiday today
May 24 18:28:26 <NCommander> lool: d'oh :-/
May 24 18:43:47 <ogra_cmpc> NCommander, so i dont undrestand what your issues with genext2fs are, it works fine for me on the babbage and rolls a netbook image in ~30min
May 24 18:51:20 <NCommander> ogra_cmpc: when I tried it, it ate more and more RAM until it eventually OOMed. If it works for you, then I'll leave the code be :-)
May 24 18:52:40 <ogra_cmpc> well, you have a weird way of computing the size, it might get confused because you allocate more than actually needed
May 24 18:53:16 <ogra_cmpc> the -b parameter should take exactly the size of the chroot contents
May 24 18:53:53 <ogra_cmpc> the tool will allocate enough to add a journal later
May 24 18:54:59 <ogra_cmpc> also there is no need to add 10MB spare space, we wont need them
May 24 18:55:19 <ogra_cmpc> the partition will be resized before the first boot anyway
May 24 18:56:38 <ogra_cmpc> i agreed that genext2fs isnt actually a beauty with its habit to allocate the full image size in ram before writing to it, but we have 30G swap on the builder so no worries
May 24 18:56:45 <ogra_cmpc> *agree
May 24 18:58:04 * ogra_cmpc goes back to slurp cool Cidre and watch TV
May 24 19:06:57 <persia> So, the reason the magic 10M exists is to contain pool/
May 24 19:07:11 <persia> If debian-cd isn't going to insert that later, it's not needed, but...
May 24 19:07:11 <NCommander> ogra_cmpc: tune2fs fails if there's no free space
May 24 19:07:55 <NCommander> ogra_cmpc: feel free to improve the code, its free software afterall :-)
May 24 19:07:56 * NCommander runs
May 24 19:08:40 * persia lassos the running target
May 24 19:08:57 <persia> NCommander: So, where does pool/ end up living with this new order?
May 24 19:09:04 <NCommander> persia: what pool?
May 24 19:09:23 <persia> The set of stuff that some folk need to be able to connect to the network to get other stuff.
May 24 19:09:25 <NCommander> If we need a pool, then we need to expend toe spec
May 24 19:09:32 <persia> We need a pool.
May 24 19:09:58 <persia> I thought that it was going to prepopulate /var/cache/apt/... somehow, but there are other ways to make it work.
May 24 19:10:01 <NCommander> persia: this is a corner case IMHO.
May 24 19:10:08 <persia> It's really not.
May 24 19:10:11 <NCommander> persia: this image is for demostration purposes only
May 24 19:10:21 <NCommander> do we *really* need a pool?
May 24 19:10:23 <persia> Three of the last four machines I've installed needed pool/
May 24 19:10:38 <NCommander> what did you need from the pool?
May 24 19:10:48 <persia> Drivers for network
May 24 19:10:57 <persia> Drivers for video
May 24 19:10:59 <NCommander> persia: drivers for the network are included on OMAP4 in kernel
May 24 19:11:07 <persia> You sure?
May 24 19:11:08 <NCommander> video can be downloaded from a PPA
May 24 19:11:14 <NCommander> persia: its supposed to work
May 24 19:11:37 <persia> So, what kind of network drivers are in the kernel?
May 24 19:11:45 <persia> Do they work for my odd network environment?
May 24 19:11:52 <persia> What about with my 3G dongle?
May 24 19:11:59 <NCommander> persia: we don't have a USB port on blaze
May 24 19:12:07 <NCommander> That kinda limits what drivers are needed :-)
May 24 19:12:30 <persia> And there's onboard network of some sort?
May 24 19:12:41 <persia> And this will remain true for other devices that would use this class of image?
May 24 19:12:56 <NCommander> persia: can't speak for hardware I don't have
May 24 19:14:07 <ogra_cmpc> persia, why would you want /pool on an installed system ?
May 24 19:14:42 <ogra_cmpc> NCommander, tune2fs works for me without leaving a gap in the image
May 24 19:14:52 <persia> ogra_cmpc: I don't.  I want to be able to get to the network to install other stuff.
May 24 19:15:22 <NCommander> persia: we'll provide drivers for the machines the image is supposed that will make the onboard stuff work
May 24 19:15:22 <ogra_cmpc> persia, right, and even if we would ship a pool dir it wouldnt be inside the rootfs
May 24 19:15:34 * persia has had all sorts of devices, the most obscure network requirement was PPP-over-ISDN-on-CF card, which caused no end of annoyance to StevenK when trying not to have pool/ for MID
May 24 19:15:53 <NCommander> persia: ...... my eyes just bled from that sentence
May 24 19:16:00 <ogra_cmpc> pool is pointless for that kind of image
May 24 19:16:04 <persia> I'm against the very concept of designing software to build images that can only be used for a single device.
May 24 19:16:22 <NCommander> persia: why can't we pre-install this stuff? (or is it in restricted)
May 24 19:16:27 <persia> I've no issues with designing software that ends up being used to generate an image that can only be used for a single device.
May 24 19:16:30 <persia> Notice the different.
May 24 19:16:30 <ogra_cmpc> but thats what we'll do, feel free to come up with a better concept
May 24 19:16:34 <persia> Err, Difference.
May 24 19:17:15 <persia> ogra_cmpc: As I suggested last week, we could prepopulate /var/cache/apt/ archives with some stuff.
May 24 19:17:24 <ogra_cmpc> indeed
May 24 19:17:41 <ogra_cmpc> but with what ? all thats intresting cant be shipped anyway
May 24 19:17:43 <NCommander> persia: why don't we just preinstall it now?
May 24 19:17:51 <ogra_cmpc> i.e. the 3D drivers
May 24 19:17:53 <persia> But we really should include the debs from the ship seed *somewhere*.  This may happen to be the empty set for some specific image, but that's coincidence.
May 24 19:18:24 <persia> PPPoE is a good example of software most folks don't need and some cannot live without.
May 24 19:18:41 <NCommander> persia: at risk of stupid question, why can't we pre-install it then?
May 24 19:18:42 <ogra_cmpc> if you can tell a good reason to have the ship seed for anything i'm happy to prepopulate /var/cache/apt
May 24 19:18:43 <persia> NCommander: Because it's useless for most folks.
May 24 19:19:04 <NCommander> persia: we ship IPv6 stuff out of the box, that's useless for more folks than PPPoE :-P
May 24 19:19:23 <ogra_cmpc> the only reason i see for ship is to have the closed stuff available
May 24 19:19:32 * NCommander agrees with ogra_cmpc 
May 24 19:19:45 <persia> ogra_cmpc: Because some use cases for some devices require it.  Like I said, I don't care if you make an image where it's empty, but please make sure the facility is there to use the ship seed to populate *somewhere* on the result image for folks/devices/environments that do require it.
May 24 19:19:46 <ogra_cmpc> in which case neither preinstallinf nor perpopulating the cache will work
May 24 19:20:11 <persia> It's not about open/closed.  it's about stuff that most folk don't want and others need.
May 24 19:20:30 <persia> Is there an open SD slot?
May 24 19:20:34 <ogra_cmpc> no
May 24 19:20:40 <ogra_cmpc> else we could use an installer
May 24 19:20:42 <persia> No USB, no SD.  Anything?
May 24 19:20:52 <persia> Any expansion of any sort?
May 24 19:21:01 <ogra_cmpc> we will have devices that only come with a single SD slot and nothing else
May 24 19:21:17 <persia> No USB?
May 24 19:21:25 <persia> No expansion port?
May 24 19:21:27 <NCommander> persia: nothing usable out of the box without a custom kernel
May 24 19:21:29 <persia> Nothing?
May 24 19:21:36 <persia> NCommander: Why not?
May 24 19:21:39 <NCommander> persia: you'd have to remove the UART gadget and replace it with something else as far as I can tell
May 24 19:21:48 <NCommander> and I'm not even sure if that's possible
May 24 19:21:49 <persia> Oh, it has a serial port?
May 24 19:21:57 <NCommander> persia: it has a mini-USB port, and a micro-USB port
May 24 19:22:05 <NCommander> my Blaze won't boot if I have anything in the micro port
May 24 19:22:11 <persia> That's USB.  I can attach all sorts of things to that.
May 24 19:22:24 <ogra_cmpc> well, the blaze has eMMC
May 24 19:22:29 <persia> And I might need to have my 3G dongle attached to be able to download updated software.
May 24 19:22:30 <ogra_cmpc> and could boot from it
May 24 19:22:31 <NCommander> persia: mini-USB is OTG, and stuck in Host mode out of the box
May 24 19:22:43 <persia> Host mode means I can attach a dongle.
May 24 19:22:44 <ogra_cmpc> thats a matter of dip switches
May 24 19:22:46 <NCommander> ogra_cmpc: I thought it was panada that had eMMC, not Blaze, or do i have it backwards.
May 24 19:22:53 * NCommander probably has it backwards
May 24 19:22:54 <ogra_cmpc> both do
May 24 19:23:00 <NCommander> oh
May 24 19:23:05 <ogra_cmpc> just have a look :)
May 24 19:23:07 <NCommander> ogra_cmpc: ... then why can't we have an installer to the eMMC?
May 24 19:23:08 * persia didn't think panda specs were available yet, and wants a URL
May 24 19:23:14 <ogra_cmpc> you have mmcblk0 and 1
May 24 19:23:33 <ogra_cmpc> NCommander, because panda and blaze arent the only devices
May 24 19:24:06 <persia> So, anyway, regardless of what's in the device, at least someone is going to have an awkward use case.
May 24 19:24:16 <persia> And that person is going to need the stuff that usually goes in pool/
May 24 19:24:35 <persia> So that stuff belongs somewhere in the image.
May 24 19:24:38 <ogra_cmpc> erm, i'm wrong
May 24 19:24:44 <ogra_cmpc> panda wont have eMMC
May 24 19:26:32 <ogra_cmpc> persia, make a list of poackages that need to be in pool and dont need a pre-download EULA agreement and i'll happily add them to the cache
May 24 19:26:47 <persia> Use the content of the ship seed.
May 24 19:26:55 <persia> Same as for any other sort of image.
May 24 19:27:46 <DanaG1> hmm, how do I get usb hard drives to automount, by-label, on a headless box?
May 24 19:27:59 <prpplague> ogra_cmpc: the eMMC is available for expansion, so you could have a secondary mmc card, or use eMMC
May 24 19:28:00 <DanaG1> usbmount doesn't work for me... I need persistent labels.
May 24 19:28:12 <persia> DanaG1: Watch for udev events, and do something with them :)
May 24 19:29:16 <ogra_cmpc> persia, so looking at the lucid netbook ship seed i dont see a single package i would ship
May 24 19:30:44 <DanaG1> Unfortunately, udev alone doesn't seem to expose the label.
May 24 19:31:10 <DanaG1>  udevadm info --query=all -a -p $(udevadm info -q path -n /dev/sda2)
May 24 19:31:17 <persia> DanaG1: Your program would respond to udev, then perform operations on the device to do things like get the label, then mount it.
May 24 19:31:35 * persia looks at the maverick netbook seed
May 24 19:31:57 <DanaG1> If I can run gnome-volume-manager (or an equivalent) in xpra, that'd work, too.
May 24 19:32:06 <ogra_cmpc> DanaG1, just create a custom rule
May 24 19:32:23 <ogra_cmpc> /etc/udev/rules.d/README has info
May 24 19:33:00 <DanaG1> I found one here that tries to use an ENV that doesn't exist as an ATTR.
May 24 19:33:10 <persia> ogra_cmpc: So, based on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/netbook.maverick/annotate/head:/ship-live I'd include pptp-linux, sl-modem-daemon, bpalogin, libatm1, setserial, b43-fwcutter, bcmwl-kernel-source,
May 24 19:33:21 * DanaG1 digs up link...
May 24 19:33:28 <persia> Extra langpacks are nice, but it's the network stuff that7s critical.
May 24 19:33:55 <DanaG1> http://superuser.com/questions/53978/ubuntu-automatically-mount-external-drives-to-media-label-on-boot-without-a-us
May 24 19:34:00 <ogra_cmpc> we wont ship any langpacks
May 24 19:34:19 <DanaG1> there's a udev rule... but it doesn't work.
May 24 19:34:23 <ogra_cmpc> oem-config will install them if network is available
May 24 19:34:32 <ogra_cmpc> if not, the image will stay english
May 24 19:35:30 <persia> ogra_cmpc: Fine, but the network stuff is critical.
May 24 19:35:56 <persia> Lots of folks have broadcomm.  Lots of folks still use modems.  Lots of folks need pptp auth to get out of the local net.
May 24 19:36:47 <ogra_cmpc> what does b43-fwcutter gain you without the firmware ?
May 24 19:37:29 <persia> I don't know.  I just know that if I do a fresh install on a machine, and install b43-fwcutter and bcmwl-kernel-source I get a working network,.
May 24 19:37:41 <ogra_cmpc> you dont
May 24 19:37:51 <persia> I do.  I did it on the 11th of May.
May 24 19:37:56 <ogra_cmpc> you need trird party frimware files
May 24 19:38:04 <persia> I really didn't.
May 24 19:38:04 <ogra_cmpc> thats what b43-fwcutter does
May 24 19:38:15 <ogra_cmpc> then you only need the source file
May 24 19:38:30 <ogra_cmpc> b43-fwcutter extracts windows firmware files
May 24 19:39:16 <persia> OK.  Maybe I have a windows driver CD that came with my dongle.
May 24 19:39:34 <ogra_cmpc> fine then put the CD in your pandaboard :P
May 24 19:40:11 <persia> No problem.  I have USB DVD drives around.
May 24 19:40:45 * persia should really get a new one, as the one that uses PS/2 power is mostly obsolete, and the other one requires *two* USB ports
May 24 19:41:05 <ogra_cmpc> my point is that you have used another computer to download your image and ot write the SD, why cant you just copy debs with that computer on the SD ?
May 24 19:41:18 <persia> Because there's no space in the filesystem
May 24 19:41:25 <ogra_cmpc> ??
May 24 19:41:36 <ogra_cmpc> the filesystem is as big as the card
May 24 19:41:41 <DanaG1> weird.... ata_id and scsi_id are both returning empty strings!
May 24 19:41:44 <persia> I'd have to do the install, and then post-install monkey with the SD card, and then install more stuff, etc.
May 24 19:42:02 <ogra_cmpc> right
May 24 19:42:02 <persia> ogra_cmpc: Not at the time I dd it.  Only post-install.
May 24 19:42:12 <persia> So, that's an unpleasant experience.
May 24 19:42:24 <ogra_cmpc> alternatively you have to bastardize livecd-rootfs to install ship inside the image
May 24 19:42:34 <persia> Plus it fails the case where I get passed an already burned SD card somewhere from some guy in an overcoat
May 24 19:42:42 <ogra_cmpc> pathces accepted if the cdimage team accepts them
May 24 19:42:47 <persia> (yes, this happens: I have been on both sides of such an SD exchange)
May 24 19:43:12 <persia> OK,  As a rep of the CD image team, do you expect them to be accepted?
May 24 19:43:24 <ogra_cmpc> no idea, depends on the code :)
May 24 19:43:59 <persia> NCommander: Please present ogra with code to review :)
May 24 19:44:04 <ogra_cmpc> pfft
May 24 19:44:08 <ogra_cmpc> thats lame
May 24 19:44:27 <ogra_cmpc> NCommander has enough work with debian-cd atm
May 24 19:44:38 <persia> Well, I guess.  I'm just not expecting to get to it for 3-4 weeks, and that's probably late to jam it in.
May 24 19:44:57 <persia> Very true.
May 24 19:45:02 <ogra_cmpc> just do it if you have time
May 24 19:45:08 <ogra_cmpc> i'm happy to review it
May 24 19:45:13 <ogra_cmpc> and to merge it too
May 24 19:45:21 <persia> OK, consider my protest registerd.  I'll send a patch when I can.  Otherwise, I'll complain about it for next time.
May 24 19:45:39 <ogra_cmpc> next time livecd-rootfs wont exist anymore
May 24 19:46:36 <persia> What?  Why not?
May 24 19:46:50 <persia> Or is it being reimplemented differently?
May 24 19:47:05 <ogra_cmpc> d-cd and l-r are being dropped
May 24 19:47:18 <persia> In favour of?
May 24 19:47:25 <ogra_cmpc> apparently someone decided to switch everything to luvehelper
May 24 19:47:30 <ogra_cmpc> *live
May 24 19:47:38 <persia> Everything?
May 24 19:47:45 * persia clearly needs to read more of the specs
May 24 19:47:55 <ogra_cmpc> i havent seen a spec
May 24 19:48:07 <ogra_cmpc> it was a m+1 decision apparently
May 24 19:48:14 <ogra_cmpc> cody told me at the corridor
May 24 19:48:21 <ogra_cmpc> at UDS
May 24 19:48:23 <persia> I'm reluctant to believe that level of infrastructure migration would happen wholesale without a spec.
May 24 19:48:40 <ogra_cmpc> m+1 qill likely have a spec then
May 24 19:48:58 <ogra_cmpc> will
May 24 19:49:14 <persia> But anyway, I'll send you a patch in July, *OR* I'll make sure there is a pool/ equivalent on produced images in m+1 (regardless of the underlying technologies.)
May 24 19:51:18 <ogra_cmpc> pool/ wont happen, cache prepopulation can though
May 24 19:51:41 <persia> Oh, of course.
May 24 19:51:50 <ogra_cmpc> hmm
May 24 19:52:04 <persia> I'm not fussed about the name, so long as users can end up with a working system post-install without needing to mount the storage on *another* device.
May 24 19:52:12 <ogra_cmpc> pool/ might if we pick to ship with a huge vfat
May 24 19:52:31 <ogra_cmpc> though my plan waws to make that hidden actually
May 24 19:52:50 <persia> huge vfat?  Why?
May 24 19:53:05 <persia> But yeah, pool/ on vfat is fine, and can be wiped if the user doesn't need it.
May 24 19:53:05 <ogra_cmpc> because we boot from that vfat
May 24 19:53:25 <persia> If it's just a boot vfat, it ought be small, I think.
May 24 19:53:27 <ogra_cmpc> so the boot partition would be bigger but carry pool/
May 24 19:53:43 <ogra_cmpc> indeed that makes the plan to make it a hidden partition tricky
May 24 19:53:45 <persia> I don't like that.  I'd rather prepopulate the cache.
May 24 19:53:54 <ogra_cmpc> ok, fine as well
May 24 19:53:59 <persia> I don't think you want to hide the partition.
May 24 19:54:21 <persia> For the EFI/GPT case, the FAT partition is unhidden, which people seem to like.
May 24 19:54:32 <ogra_cmpc> i want to hide the partition
May 24 19:54:37 <ogra_cmpc> else it gets mounted
May 24 19:54:47 <DanaG1> persia: you can hack up a ps/2 to usb-power-only cable.
May 24 19:54:52 <DanaG1> or rather, the other way around.
May 24 19:55:27 <ogra_cmpc> that fat partition is our replacement for the NAND and will be handled similar
May 24 19:56:01 <persia> DanaG1: both ways, actually, but I've seen new devices that have an onboard capacitor to handle spinup with only a 5V/500mA draw.
May 24 19:56:22 <DanaG1> ah yeah, usb->ps/2->usb.
May 24 19:56:27 <persia> ogra_cmpc: Doesn't have to mount.  The FAT partition for EFI/GPT doesn't get mounted.
May 24 19:56:32 <DanaG1> Suck power from it, while passing it right back to USB protocol.
May 24 19:56:42 <ogra_cmpc> persia, it shows up in nautilus
May 24 19:56:53 <persia> ogra_cmpc: Not on a new macbook.
May 24 19:56:57 <ogra_cmpc> i dont want people to be able to muck about with it
May 24 19:57:17 <DanaG1> http://www.cablesdirect.com/prodimages/USB-PS2F_LR.jpg
May 24 19:57:17 * ogra_cmpc didnt know there will be panda based macbooks :P
May 24 19:57:33 <ogra_cmpc> TI will be happy to hear that :D
May 24 19:57:41 <DanaG1> I wish my UEFI weren't broken. =(
May 24 19:57:51 <persia> ogra_cmpc: The point isn't panda-macbooks.  The point is that we have technology that causes special bootloader partitions not to be mounted by nautilus.
May 24 19:58:00 <ogra_cmpc> right
May 24 19:58:11 <persia> So we ought use that to do this, rather than fiddling with hidden partitions.
May 24 19:58:12 <ogra_cmpc> we also have udev rules that hide such partitions completely
May 24 19:58:19 <persia> Right.
May 24 19:58:28 <DanaG1> HP_TOOLS is another example.
May 24 19:58:31 <persia> Which is the right way to do it, not with the hidden flag in the parition table.
May 24 19:58:38 <DanaG1> HP boots in CSM mode, but has their EFI partition for stuff like QuickLook.
May 24 19:58:45 <ogra_cmpc> i didnt talk about flags
May 24 19:59:00 <persia> Oh, then I've misunderstood you.  Please forget I said anything :)
May 24 19:59:21 <ogra_cmpc> but i want it completely hidden so users dont fiddle manually with the contents and instead use the provided tools
May 24 19:59:42 <persia> You can't do completely hidden.
May 24 19:59:51 <ogra_cmpc> you can through udev
May 24 19:59:57 <persia> Closest is with partition table flags (which I'll argue against)
May 24 19:59:59 <persia> No, you can't.
May 24 20:00:10 <persia> All udev does is not provide a /dev/ link, at best.
May 24 20:00:17 <ogra_cmpc> the system wont see it
May 24 20:00:34 <DanaG1> Isn't there something like UML that'll let different apps see different file systems?
May 24 20:01:00 <persia> DanaG1: Yes.
May 24 20:01:12 <DanaG1> sudo scsiadd -p
May 24 20:01:13 <DanaG1> scsiadd:scsidump():could not open /proc/scsi/scsi (r): No such file or directory
May 24 20:01:25 <DanaG1> argh... for some reason, that udev rule doesn't work.
May 24 20:01:34 <persia> ogra_cmpc: You really don't need to go to that extent.  Look up how the EFI/GPT case is handled for Intel Macs.  That7s well-tested code.
May 24 20:01:40 <DanaG1> It acts as if ENV{ID_FS_LABEL_ENC} does not exist.
May 24 20:01:52 <DanaG1> Intel Macs are weird... they don't use protective MBR.
May 24 20:02:05 <persia> Well, kinda.
May 24 20:02:08 <DanaG1> I wish Apple would recommend using EFI-installed Windows instead of CSM-installed Windows.
May 24 20:02:19 <persia> they leave space for it, but don't pay any attention to it.
May 24 20:03:32 <ogra_cmpc> i just plan to add it to /lib/udev/rules.d/80-udisks.rules at the bottom
May 24 20:03:38 * ogra_cmpc needs to go now
May 24 20:30:27 <DanaG1> ah, fixed the udev rule.
May 24 20:30:35 <DanaG1> had to change SUBSYSTEM=usb to SUBSYSTEM=block
May 24 20:30:41 <DanaG1> and rename a file I had mis-named.
May 24 21:25:44 * NCommander is dealing with some really sucky internet in his test builds :-/
May 25 00:09:40 <xorAxAx> ogra_cmpc: hmm, it seems that i dont get anything on the s-video output even though i am setting the right boot options
May 25 00:10:17 <rcn-ee> xorAxAx, which board?
May 25 00:10:27 <xorAxAx> BB C5
May 25 00:10:29 <xorAxAx> BB C4
May 25 00:11:10 <xorAxAx> i currently dont have a dvi connector, nor a serial cable, only s-video :)
May 25 00:12:48 <rcn-ee> that's going to make it almost impossible.. (speciall with no serial cable.)  the s-video settings aren't always enabled in every kernel. (nor do i test it)  take a look here, nottice how sakoman setup the tv section: http://www.sakoman.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-omap-2.6.git;a=blobdiff;f=arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-omap3beagle.c;h=915606ed2c8dd82bcd8942a2a0f958de4118e03a;hp=89eca2005d88239bd8ea411e5103c995f52b52e8;hb=9708463105204cb46fa8
May 25 00:12:48 <rcn-ee> bd59f309e85f5936d4d6;hpb=76f65e01f23f435497cbd70cb574dd5689cddb58
May 25 00:13:06 <rcn-ee> (that failed: http://www.sakoman.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-omap-2.6.git;a=commit;h=9708463105204cb46fa8bd59f309e85f5936d4d6)
May 25 00:14:08 <xorAxAx> i dont see how that commit would help me
May 25 00:14:50 <rcn-ee> i'm saying if s-video isn't working, there's a good chance the s-video bits aren't setup...
May 25 00:16:33 <rcn-ee> looks like they are.. http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-lucid.git;a=commit;h=0f66624dea24d97fc700e8effad9c4016a22224f  (what's your bootargs)
May 25 00:18:06 <xorAxAx> setenv bootargs vram=12M omapdss.def_disp=tv omapfb.mode=tv:pal file=/cdrom/preseed/ubuntu-server.seed  cdrom-detect/try-usb=true
May 25 00:19:41 <xorAxAx> rcn-ee: does that make sense?
May 25 00:20:07 <rcn-ee> that's valid...  so how are verifying that's actually getting passed to the kernel?
May 25 00:21:56 <xorAxAx> i could check the output of uboot
May 25 00:22:06 <xorAxAx> (flashed an uboot which talks over usb :))
May 25 00:22:52 <rcn-ee> okay, wasn't sure on that...  can you log the kernel boot for me..?
May 25 00:23:56 <xorAxAx> i dont get to that step anymore
May 25 00:24:04 <xorAxAx> because the kernel doesnt talk usb :-P
May 25 00:24:18 <xorAxAx> hmm, uboot doesnt echo the bootargs
May 25 00:24:31 <rcn-ee> ah right.. (stick a printenv in your script)
May 25 00:26:41 <xorAxAx> videomode=1024x768@60,vxres=1024,vyres=768
May 25 00:26:43 <xorAxAx> videospec=omapfb:vram:2M,vram:4M
May 25 00:26:46 <xorAxAx> thats in the env :)
May 25 00:27:08 <xorAxAx> but thats likely not used
May 25 00:27:14 <xorAxAx> mmcargs=setenv bootargs console=${console} video=${videospec},mode:${videomode} root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw rootfstype=ext3 rootwait
May 25 00:27:16 <xorAxAx> nandargs=setenv bootargs console=${console} video=${videospec},mode:${videomode} root=/dev/mtdblock4 rw rootfstype=jffs2
May 25 00:27:24 <xorAxAx> ah, hmm. so it prefixed with video=?
May 25 00:27:59 <rcn-ee> that's a little weird..  you can call saveenv  to safe your bootargs...
May 25 00:29:18 <rcn-ee> ah yeah i remember now.. that's an older u-boot, before they standarized on boot.scr's the video spec stuff is for 2.6.27/28 kernel's..
May 25 00:29:50 <xorAxAx> i guess i'll wait for the serial cable to arrive
May 25 00:30:28 <rcn-ee> oh you can override, just setenv bootargs ' yada' then saveenv then boot..
May 25 00:30:48 <xorAxAx> well, i am booting from sd card
May 25 00:30:56 <xorAxAx> and i just booted manually
May 25 00:31:06 <xorAxAx> with copying commands into the prompt
May 25 00:35:19 <xorAxAx> good night
May 25 01:31:50 <persia> What?  Why not?
May 25 01:32:17 <persia> Err.  That's an unintentional repeat.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 25 02:59:57 2010