**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 22 02:59:58 2010
Nov 22 03:58:24 <bradh> Hi. I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RootfsFromScratch and am a bit confused. I'm interested in knowing if my software works OK on arm, but I don't have any ARM hardware. So I'm looking for the easiest way to get ubuntu going on qemu.
Nov 22 03:59:16 <bradh> Do I have to build the rootfs? Or is it possible to say "qemu --magic_options" and install an image as usual?
Nov 22 06:52:21 <persia> zumbi_, GrueMaster: There aren't any arch-specific mailing lists for Ubuntu.  ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com is usually a good choice.
Nov 22 07:19:44 <GrueMaster> persia: Thanks.  Didn't knpw if we were replacing ubuntu-mobile or not.
Nov 22 07:19:50 <GrueMaster> know
Nov 22 07:20:56 <persia> It's about purpose.  Flavours can have mailing lists: interesting discussions about how to solve various issues (What use cases do we support?  How do we handle USB drives?  What program is useful for making phone calls?)
Nov 22 07:21:12 <persia> Since each flavour has a *different* answer to these questions, it makes sense to have separate discussions.
Nov 22 07:21:46 <persia> In the case of architectures, there's very rarely such interesting discussions.  Most of the meaty bits are really more appropriately handled in toolchain discussions, which tend to happen in bug reports.
Nov 22 07:21:46 <GrueMaster> ah
Nov 22 07:22:31 <persia> And porting issues are usually interesting to everyone, although some architectures get more support than others (mostly seems to be related to what developers have, rather than anything else)
Nov 22 08:16:24 <hrw> hi
Nov 22 10:41:49 <bradh> I asked earlier, but didn't get a response: is the best way to set up a generic (not representative of any particular hardware) qemu vm to build the rootfs? Or is there something easier?
Nov 22 11:05:36 <hrw> multistrap, rootstock, linaro-image-create
Nov 22 11:05:40 <hrw> some of them
Nov 22 11:30:03 <fredim> This error happens when I install ubuntu10.10-netbook-arm
Nov 22 11:30:18 <fredim> ubuntu-netbook-10.10-netbook-armel+dove
Nov 22 11:30:41 <fredim> "Not omap EVM"
Nov 22 11:34:30 <persia> fredim, You probably want to try to catch NCommander about that: I think he did most of the dove testing (and I don't know anyone else offhand who has dove)
Nov 22 12:55:22 <zumbi_> persia: ubuntu-devel best choice or ubuntu-mobile.. i just want to invite/let know ubuntu-arm about emdebian sprint/worksession
Nov 22 12:59:28 <persia> zumbi_, ubuntu-devel is probably best for that.
Nov 22 12:59:39 <persia> ubuntu-mobile will likely go away soon enough.
Nov 22 12:59:50 <persia> (as the flavours it discussed are no longer extant)
Nov 22 13:07:33 <zumbi_> persia: ack, thanks :)
Nov 22 13:13:52 <joolzg> afternoon fromuk
Nov 22 13:14:45 <joolzg> got a problem, just installed ubuntu10.10 on my beagle board, system up but mouse and keyboard not working so i cannot get past the 1st welcome screen
Nov 22 13:15:18 <joolzg> ive also tried a couple of mice but same outcome
Nov 22 13:15:47 <joolzg> i know the keyboard works cause i have been playing with building new kernels
Nov 22 13:17:15 <joolzg> forgot to say im using the Maverick build linked from wiki.ubuntu.com
Nov 22 13:18:10 <joolzg> anybody here, feel all alone :-)
Nov 22 13:20:05 <ogra_ac> what beage version is that ?
Nov 22 13:20:10 <ogra_ac> *beagle
Nov 22 13:20:19 <ogra_ac> pre-C4 had USB issues iirc
Nov 22 13:20:19 <joolzg> c4 version
Nov 22 13:20:33 <ogra_ac> do you have a powered HUB attached ?
Nov 22 13:21:05 <joolzg> yep, i started with the EBV Beagle Kit which comes with everything except keyboard and mouse
Nov 22 13:21:29 <joolzg> as i said i have been running non-gui for over a week, so i know keyboard works
Nov 22 13:21:43 <ogra_ac> which instructions exactly did you follow ? got  a link ?
Nov 22 13:22:12 <joolzg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAPMaverickInstall
Nov 22 13:22:29 <ogra_ac> ok, thats the official image
Nov 22 13:22:51 <joolzg> it boots and runs but it fails to let me past the "System Configuration"
Nov 22 13:22:53 <ogra_ac> do you properly boot with the initrd ?
Nov 22 13:23:26 <ogra_ac> ah, if you see the oem config screen you should be fine wrt initrd
Nov 22 13:23:42 <ogra_ac> did you try to reconnect mouse and kbd after X is up
Nov 22 13:24:39 <joolzg> nope
Nov 22 13:24:45 <ogra_ac> try that
Nov 22 13:25:27 <joolzg> not working
Nov 22 13:26:26 <ogra_ac> hmm
Nov 22 13:26:40 * ogra_ac hasnt heard of any such issues yet
Nov 22 13:27:30 <joolzg> any way of getting the console up
Nov 22 13:28:20 <ogra_ac> edit boot.scr before you do the first boot, during the resize the image should set up a serial getty
Nov 22 13:36:02 <joolzg> im a bit new on this stuff so any more pointers please
Nov 22 13:37:56 <joolzg> i just booted from another SD card which i can see "4 port hub found"
Nov 22 13:38:13 <joolzg> and it shows in dmesg "CHESEN USB Keyboard"
Nov 22 13:38:15 <joolzg> and
Nov 22 13:38:25 <joolzg> "PIXART USB Optical Mouse"
Nov 22 13:44:54 <joolzg> found it will turn on the serial and see what messages i get
Nov 22 13:56:56 <joolzg> ive added in the console=ttyS2,115200n8 and nothingon console, should i try ttyS1
Nov 22 14:13:33 <joolzg> right got console up and there are no messages after the console login message, the system continues to boot but will without USB Keyboard or Mouse
Nov 22 14:13:45 <joolzg> i also cannot see any USB messages in the console output
Nov 22 14:21:22 <suihkulokki> lool: any idea why ldconfig would not plunge into hwcap directories, but ld.so does (ie when no ld.so.cache is around)
Nov 22 14:33:21 <lool> suihkulokki: Is your glibc/eglibc patched similarly than Ubuntu's?
Nov 22 14:33:25 <lool> debian/patches/arm/local-hwcap-updates.diff
Nov 22 14:34:54 <lool> suihkulokki: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%2Bbranch/ubuntu/eglibc/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/arm/local-hwcap-updates.diff
Nov 22 14:36:11 <lool> suihkulokki: In fact, I'm not even sure this is enough
Nov 22 14:37:03 <lool> suihkulokki: Right; the patch has been broken in Ubuntu for some reason
Nov 22 14:37:28 <suihkulokki> lool: thats not the problem.. I see ld.so crawl the directories and load hwcap libraries as expected
Nov 22 14:37:45 <suihkulokki> the problem is ldconfig doesnt crawl them
Nov 22 14:37:46 <lool> suihkulokki: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lool/ubuntu-toolchain/glibc-neon-and-misc-hwcaps/revision/214
Nov 22 14:37:53 <lool> suihkulokki: Yes; that's the HWCAP_IMPORTANT thing
Nov 22 14:38:31 <suihkulokki> without HWCAP_IMPORTANT ld.so doesn't crawl them
Nov 22 14:39:11 <lool> well I remember reading through that code when patching for vfp and neon, and there were different sets for ldconfig and for ld.so
Nov 22 14:39:34 <lool> ah debian/patches/arm/local-no-hwcap.diff is the other patch
Nov 22 14:40:36 <lool> suihkulokki: Is this in a chroot with /proc mounted?
Nov 22 14:41:17 <lool>   * Update patch arm/local-no-hwcap to also flag HWCAP_ARM_NEON as an
Nov 22 14:41:17 <lool>     important hwcap; this adds /lib/neon, /usr/lib/neon etc. to the ldconfig
Nov 22 14:41:17 <lool>     and ld.so search pathes.
Nov 22 14:41:37 <lool>   * New patch, arm/local-hwcap-updates, add support for some recent ARM hwcaps
Nov 22 14:41:40 <lool>     additions.
Nov 22 14:41:59 <lool> So one of them is for the ldconfig cache, and the other is for ld.so and ldconfig; indeed it seems you should be seeing the same behavior for ldconfig and ld.so
Nov 22 14:45:06 <lool> suihkulokki: Is this with ldconfig -r?
Nov 22 14:45:20 <lool> suihkulokki: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=11149 was "recently" fixed and apparently introduced a regression
Nov 22 14:45:40 <ubot2> lool: Error: Could not parse XML returned by sourceware.org: timed out (http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/xml.cgi?id=11149)
Nov 22 14:48:58 <suihkulokki> lool: no -r option
Nov 22 14:49:44 <lool> suihkulokki: Ok; then I'm out of ideas and would have to debug it
Nov 22 14:49:53 <lool> I'm afraid I forgot most of the reading I did back then
Nov 22 14:51:08 <lool> suihkulokki: I'm curious to hear for the issue when you've found it  :-)
Nov 22 14:51:13 <lool> suihkulokki: Do you have this in a bug somewher?
Nov 22 16:25:01 <GrueMaster> ogra: Friday's image fails to boot a second time.  Am planning to look into it further, but here is the boot log.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/535244/
Nov 22 16:25:21 <rsavoye> Is the OpenGLES & OpenVG libraries in Natty accelerated or are they the Mesa versions ?
Nov 22 16:25:56 <rsavoye> plus I was wondering if they were desktop only, as I was planing on using a framebuffer with no X11
Nov 22 16:26:29 <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, there were some X issues
Nov 22 16:28:44 <hrw> rsavoye: mesa iirc provides only opengl not openles
Nov 22 16:28:53 <GrueMaster> ogra_ac: This is a kernel panic, and doesn't look X related.  I could be wrong, but I don't see any indication of X starting here.
Nov 22 16:29:19 <ogra_ac> oh, k
Nov 22 16:29:26 <rsavoye> hrw: actually there are OpenGLES1 & 2, plus OpenVG libraries for Mesa, I'm already using them
Nov 22 16:29:43 <rsavoye> but eventually need to move them off the desktop and onto the real device
Nov 22 16:29:48 <rsavoye> i.mx51 based
Nov 22 16:30:30 <rsavoye> I assume I can use the ARM Mali libraries with Natty or Maverick ?
Nov 22 16:31:18 <hrw> rsavoye: babbage?
Nov 22 16:31:36 <rsavoye> nope, custom hardware
Nov 22 16:31:45 <rsavoye> initially using the Freescale eval board
Nov 22 16:32:05 <hrw> rsavoye: planning to use 2.6.35-fsl or other version?
Nov 22 16:32:30 <rsavoye> right now they're using ltib for building images
Nov 22 16:32:55 <rsavoye> but may move to Ubuntu
Nov 22 16:37:59 <GrueMaster> ogra_ac: Did the image builder crash?  Not seeing images since 20101119, and no email for omap4 imaages (blank email for omap only).
Nov 22 16:38:50 <prpplague> ogra_ac: does your ac100 have touchscreen ?
Nov 22 16:38:52 <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, no, only the logging
Nov 22 16:38:56 <ogra_ac> prpplague, nope
Nov 22 16:39:16 <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, ubuntu-netbook-default-settings was borked, fix went in today
Nov 22 16:39:31 <GrueMaster> Ah.
Nov 22 16:39:52 <prpplague> ogra_ac: how is it working out for you?
Nov 22 16:40:05 <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, i dont know how ubuntu-netbook will behave though
Nov 22 16:40:15 <ogra_ac> so tomorrows build may still fail
Nov 22 16:40:29 <ogra_ac> prpplague, using ubuntu without touchscreen on the ac100 ? works fine ;)
Nov 22 16:41:12 <prpplague> ogra_ac: sorry i meant in general, not specific to the touch part
Nov 22 16:42:00 <ogra_ac> well, its works so so ... given that all power management, sound, button control etc is done in a proprietary tool in userspace i cant make full use of all the device features
Nov 22 16:42:44 <prpplague> ogra_ac: have you seen the HP touchsmart units? they are x86, but i am curious what you think about the form factor:  http://www.amazon.com/HP-TouchSmart-tm2-2150us-12-1-Inch-Argento/dp/B00429LI9W
Nov 22 16:43:23 <prpplague> ogra_ac: it's one of those designs that folds down into a psuedo-tablet
Nov 22 16:43:45 <ogra_ac> my laptop is such a device
Nov 22 16:43:54 <ogra_ac> i dont use the touchscreen much
Nov 22 16:45:25 <ogra_ac> http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_configurator.asp?PRID=11149
Nov 22 16:54:05 <ogra_ac> prpplague, to be honest i dont use my normal laptop much anymore, when i bought it it felt light any breezy but since i have the ac100 everything feels clunky, i even do tasks on the laptop only remotely from the ac100 atm
Nov 22 16:55:05 <prpplague> ogra_ac: interesting
Nov 22 16:55:54 <prpplague> never even heard of AVA before
Nov 22 16:56:16 <ogra_ac> i guess if you ask macbook air users you will hear something similar from them
Nov 22 16:56:29 <ogra_ac> the form factor is really intreaguing
Nov 22 16:57:02 <ogra_ac> AVA is just an ODM, the OEM is Clevo for that laptop
Nov 22 16:57:14 <ogra_ac> err, other way round ;)
Nov 22 16:57:40 <ogra_ac> i bought mine as "nexoc"
Nov 22 16:57:56 <prpplague> interesting
Nov 22 16:58:53 <ogra_ac> (the ac100 is originally built by compal btw)
Nov 22 16:59:04 <prpplague> the prices are certainly good
Nov 22 16:59:36 <ogra_ac> yeah, its cheap and everything works out of the box with ubuntu, that were my critical points back then
Nov 22 17:00:09 <ogra_ac> and you can upgrade every part of it (CPU, RAM, DIsk etc)
Nov 22 17:00:22 <prpplague> hmm, this would be interesting with omap4 - http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_configurator.asp?PRID=13877
Nov 22 17:00:40 <ogra_ac> with laptops i usually buy some average standard and upgrade it after 1.2 years
Nov 22 17:00:43 <ogra_ac> 1-2
Nov 22 17:01:06 <ogra_ac> heh, toughbook like
Nov 22 17:01:08 <prpplague> yea
Nov 22 17:04:27 <hrw> prpplague: I would prefer 10-11" with >=1024x600 but needs to have hdmi out
Nov 22 17:06:36 * ogra_ac would prefer a pandaboard in the ac100 case ;)
Nov 22 17:07:28 <prpplague> ogra_ac: already done that
Nov 22 17:07:43 <ogra_ac> wooot ?!?
Nov 22 17:07:56 <ogra_ac> a std panda ?
Nov 22 17:08:23 <prpplague> minus the connectors
Nov 22 17:08:27 <ogra_ac> wow
Nov 22 17:08:36 <ogra_ac> indeed, minus the connectors ;)
Nov 22 17:13:03 <prpplague> it was more of a proof of concept thing
Nov 22 17:13:20 <ogra_ac> bah, do it in mass production !
Nov 22 17:13:21 <prpplague> i thought about making a "retro fit kit"
Nov 22 17:13:40 <ogra_ac> :)
Nov 22 17:40:14 <prpplague> ogra_ac: http://www.frys.com/product/6280390?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
Nov 22 17:40:21 <prpplague> ogra_ac: thats the netbook i used
Nov 22 17:41:04 <ogra_ac> thats not an ac100 ;)
Nov 22 17:41:20 <prpplague> ogra_ac: yea i needed the room inside to shove a panda in
Nov 22 17:41:38 <prpplague> ogra: if i did a nice pcb, i could get it down into a 7" netbook
Nov 22 17:41:48 <ogra_ac> yeah, thats why i was so suprised you said ac100
Nov 22 17:42:00 <ogra_ac> thats like 4x thicker than the ac100
Nov 22 17:42:13 <ogra_ac> my gf has the same one sitting next to me
Nov 22 17:42:20 <prpplague> ogra_ac: yea, if i were to do a custom pcb, i could get it pretty thin
Nov 22 17:42:32 <ogra_ac> yup
Nov 22 17:43:54 <prpplague> 7" seems too small to me
Nov 22 17:44:00 <prpplague> 8.9" is about right
Nov 22 17:44:26 <ogra_ac> board size you mean ?
Nov 22 17:44:30 <prpplague> the smallest 1280x800 i've seen is 11.4"
Nov 22 17:44:33 <prpplague> display
Nov 22 17:44:41 <ogra_ac> ah, the ac100 is 10"
Nov 22 17:44:55 <ogra_ac> and the MSI too (at least the one next to me)
Nov 22 17:45:39 <prpplague> yea the choices for lvds displays right now are 7" , 8.9", 10.1", 11.6" and 12.1"  for netbooks
Nov 22 17:45:51 <ogra_ac> who needs 1280x800 anyway
Nov 22 17:45:55 <prpplague> 10.1" is the standard pers se
Nov 22 17:46:01 <ogra_ac> as long as you lead the HDMI outside
Nov 22 17:46:25 <prpplague> yea that is my thoughts as well
Nov 22 17:46:33 <ogra_ac> 1024x600 is just fine for the internal display
Nov 22 17:46:49 <prpplague> ogra_ac: but i get alot of end user feedback saying they want 1280x800
Nov 22 17:47:02 <ogra_ac> well
Nov 22 17:47:22 <prpplague> (note most end users have no clue what they actually need verses what they want)
Nov 22 17:48:02 <ogra_ac> i doubt you will actually be able to tell the difference between a 1024x600 downscaled  and 1280x800 full HD movie
Nov 22 17:48:15 <prpplague> indeed
Nov 22 17:48:29 <ogra_ac> which is the only reason why i wuld want a 1280x600 LCD
Nov 22 17:48:44 <ogra_ac> but then i would use a 50" TV via HDMI anyway :P
Nov 22 17:58:18 <prpplague> hehe
Nov 22 18:12:37 <ogra_ac> GrueMaster, https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/664431 needs some NEON testing (again)
Nov 22 18:12:40 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 664431 in qt4-x11 (Ubuntu Natty) (and 3 other projects) "QT on armel is built with NEON by default (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 40)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
Nov 22 18:13:40 <GrueMaster> What kind of testing do you need me to do?  Be aware I only have one pandaboard with me.  I can remote into my dove, but it is limited.
Nov 22 18:17:58 <GrueMaster> I can do more thorough testing with the dove next week.
Nov 22 18:19:35 <ogra_ac> well, as soon as you can then
Nov 22 18:20:23 <ogra_ac> just install a QT app and try to run it (ssh -X will be fine too, you dont need to have a desktop installed)
Nov 22 18:20:41 <GrueMaster> Ok, I'll see what I can do.
Nov 22 18:20:42 <ogra_ac> and report back that you dont see a SIGILL
Nov 22 18:20:55 <ogra_ac> no hurry, we have 10 days
Nov 22 18:21:06 <ogra_ac> or so
Nov 22 18:21:34 <ogra_ac> i asked some ac100 people too, but we need a test from a supported arch as well i think
Nov 22 18:23:35 <GrueMaster> I can test the panda in a little bit.
Nov 22 18:24:32 <ogra_ac> panda has neon
Nov 22 18:25:02 <ogra_ac> i need a dove test once you are back home
Nov 22 18:25:14 <GrueMaster> Ah.  Ok.
Nov 22 22:16:16 <ogra_ac> ndec, !
Nov 22 22:16:25 <ndec> ogra_ac: hi
Nov 22 22:16:51 <ogra_ac> ndec, i'm waiting since a week to give you this link ;) https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-October/031860.html
Nov 22 22:17:03 <ogra_ac> somehow i either forgot it or you werent around
Nov 22 22:17:15 <ogra_ac> that has info about the linker changes
Nov 22 22:17:46 <ndec> ogra_ac: hehe... thx!
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 23 02:59:57 2010