**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 11 02:59:56 2011 Jul 11 03:29:59 is anyone around that can tell me how the initial boot stuff works with the preinstalled image Jul 11 03:30:44 with my device I found nvflash to have a 4GB filesize upload restriction Jul 11 03:38:04 Maybe. What part don't you understand? Jul 11 03:38:42 well, 1 is triggering it on another device Jul 11 03:39:04 2 is a bit more difficult to explain Jul 11 03:39:10 Another device? Do you mean different partitions? Jul 11 03:39:22 (or rather, different /dev/ nodes) Jul 11 03:39:26 no I mean the transformer rather than panda Jul 11 03:39:28 :p Jul 11 03:39:45 I upload an ext4 image Jul 11 03:39:54 which does not take up all the room it is allocated Jul 11 03:41:43 Ah, so you want to resize the filesystem on first boot? Jul 11 03:41:58 Doesn't the transformer have significant internal flash? Jul 11 03:42:30 yeah 16 or 32 Jul 11 03:42:47 but I am trying to retain enough for the android system to co-exist Jul 11 03:43:13 Heh, OK. Ubuntu requires 4GB, and 8 or more is recommended. Jul 11 03:43:27 well my current image is 4.2GB Jul 11 03:43:33 Is the transformer capable of booting from alternate media (e.g. SD)? Jul 11 03:43:35 which is nvflashes max upload Jul 11 03:43:45 yeah it can, but emmc is soooooo much faster :) Jul 11 03:44:04 its like an F1 next to a smart Jul 11 03:44:11 That's fine. Jul 11 03:44:20 Sure, but slow installation media isn't the end of the world. Jul 11 03:44:33 ah installation media :p Jul 11 03:44:38 In cases where it is possible to boot off removable media OR internal storage, you don't want to do what is done with the panda. Jul 11 03:44:51 I see Jul 11 03:44:58 Instead you want to cause booting off the SD to perform an install to the internal media Jul 11 03:45:17 actually that would be better Jul 11 03:45:17 (and you want to give the user choices to set up dual-boot or completely reformat and just run Ubuntu). Jul 11 03:45:33 providing everyone has µSD Jul 11 03:45:42 infinity, Were you ever pointed to the branch for that tarball installer ogra wrote? Jul 11 03:45:47 yeah that does sound nicely Jul 11 03:45:50 nicer* Jul 11 03:45:57 persia: Nope, but we'll get it all public RSN. Jul 11 03:46:09 Oh well. Jul 11 03:46:14 persia: Especially since it'll find its way into an official image soon. :P Jul 11 03:46:36 lilstevie, So, there exists an installer that does precisely what you want. Unfortunately, it's not being developed transparently, so you have to wait, or reinvent the wheel :( Jul 11 03:46:36 eh :( Jul 11 03:46:50 (Not that you have to wait long, mind you) Jul 11 03:46:54 I am not reinventing something when it does not need to be Jul 11 03:47:03 infinity: define not that long :) Jul 11 03:47:06 There's no reason it's not public except a bit of laziness. We have the technology to fix that. Jul 11 03:47:33 I'm not sure there is a technical solution to ogra being lazy, really. Jul 11 03:47:34 heh Jul 11 03:47:35 Like, you're not waiting for weeks/months on process or anything, just waiting hours/days on people being poked sufficiently violently. Jul 11 03:47:43 heh Jul 11 03:47:45 * persia has been waiting months Jul 11 03:47:49 well it would make things easier Jul 11 03:47:50 persia: I poke harder. Jul 11 03:48:03 flash kernel, insert SDCard, make the choises Jul 11 03:48:05 True. I've only tried cajoling, shaming, and bribing. Jul 11 03:48:12 does this installer have the option for a virtual keyboard Jul 11 03:48:14 Sharp sticks. Jul 11 03:48:15 Bribery doesn't work Jul 11 03:48:33 lilstevie: Virtual keyboard is mostly up to your FS image, not the installer. Jul 11 03:48:45 lilstevie, From my experience with my dynabook, it's more 1) tell the bootloader to boot from SD, 2) insert SD card, 3) make the choices. Jul 11 03:48:50 lilstevie: Well, "installer" here meaning "tiny initramfs shim". Jul 11 03:48:50 Kernel should come from the archive. Jul 11 03:49:06 StevenK, It's worked for me many a time. Corruption and graft are rife. Jul 11 03:49:16 infinity: heh, cause that is somethign of a must for me, while the dock is there, it is not always going to be Jul 11 03:49:24 some people don't own the keyboard dock Jul 11 03:49:48 lilstevie: I'll keep that in mind as I generalise this. Since I suspect that virtual keyboards and early boot will NOT get along. Jul 11 03:50:08 lilstevie: We might want to generalise something for phone-like hardware interrupt hooks. Jul 11 03:50:08 lilstevie, Aren't there some function buttons on the tablet? Jul 11 03:50:25 (things like "press the home button to select installation to media X", etc) Jul 11 03:50:29 persia: power, vol-up vol-down Jul 11 03:50:44 We can work with that. Jul 11 03:50:50 hc devices have no other GPIO buttons Jul 11 03:50:57 Yeah, if there's any hardware button at all, we can do clever things. Jul 11 03:51:02 I have a bit more to work with on the SGT Jul 11 03:51:07 vol-up/vol-down to select. Power to choose. Hold power for hard-reset. Jul 11 03:51:10 I have that plus a touchstrip Jul 11 03:51:23 For some value of "we" that won't be me, unless I have devices to muck with. But I could proof-of-concept the idea on my N900 or G1 or something. Jul 11 03:51:38 Do you have a working kernel for that? I'd *really* like to upload it. Jul 11 03:52:01 infinity, If you can get something working for the n900, the kubuntu-mobile folk would love you. Jul 11 03:52:05 persia: for which ? Jul 11 03:52:14 They've a wiki page with all sorts of annoying mucking about currently. Jul 11 03:52:17 lilstevie, SGT. Jul 11 03:52:33 We were talking about it a couple weeks ago, and you ran into a touchscreen issue, and I hadn't heard from you since. Jul 11 03:53:01 persia: oh the issue is much bigger than we though Jul 11 03:53:05 persia: My N900 is pretty much Just Another armel Buildd right now, so yeah, I'm happy to screw with it as a dev device again. Jul 11 03:53:28 2.6.32 is the only kernel with a working tsp at the moment, and one of the utouch team has found a bug Jul 11 03:53:31 apachelogger, Notice the volunteer for the installer work above Jul 11 03:53:44 but I have been a little preoccupied with the transformer for the time being Jul 11 03:54:35 Oh, annoying. Can I have a kernel with broken touchscreen? Jul 11 03:54:57 We can call that a bug, and fix it later, but we can't fix not having a package once the freezes start. Jul 11 03:55:15 Real men ssh to their tablets and phones anyway Jul 11 03:55:19 Touchscreens are for the weak. Jul 11 03:55:52 (Is the above pretty much proof of all the Maemo work I did for Nokia?) Jul 11 03:56:02 persia: heh, well bug on which Jul 11 03:56:09 persia: cause both of them are kinda working Jul 11 03:56:24 2.6.35 has a weird issue where clicks are not being interpretted correctly Jul 11 03:56:29 lilstevie, So, we upload linux-sgt 2.6.35+, and we file a bug "Touchscreen driver is broken". Jul 11 03:56:32 and 2.6.32 is duplicating the touch frame Jul 11 03:56:34 There was a 2 month period or so where neither the hardware OR on-screen keyboards worked on the N9 prototypes. :P Jul 11 03:56:56 infinity: Which gave you what, ssh? Jul 11 03:56:57 infinity, Isn't that why one has bluetooth? Jul 11 03:56:58 persia: sure then I can upload one :) Jul 11 03:57:17 StevenK: SSH and serial. Jul 11 03:57:22 lilstevie, That would be lovely! Put it anywhere, and I'll dig through it for packaging stuff, and stick it in the archive. Jul 11 03:57:42 persia: source or binary Jul 11 03:57:56 and we need to mark 2 major bugs :) Jul 11 03:58:00 Source. Preferably packaged source :) Jul 11 03:58:09 That's fine. Once it's in the archive, we just report them to LP. Jul 11 03:58:11 persia: How do you pair a bluetooth keyboard with a host you can't talk to? ;) Jul 11 03:58:11 1) TSP, 2) Temp broken command line Jul 11 03:58:27 infinity, agressive udev rule. Jul 11 03:58:35 persia: well I have te source up on github if that helps Jul 11 03:59:10 persia: I imagine the GUI folks probably pulled such tricks. I don't touch UI anyway, so whatever. Serial/SSH are less hassle than poking phones anyway. Jul 11 03:59:11 Well, kinda. Are you up for packaging it, or do you need someone else to help with that? Jul 11 03:59:30 well I have only packed for butchered apt before Jul 11 03:59:37 so I would need some help :) Jul 11 03:59:43 infinity, You are my favourite flavour of luddite :) Jul 11 03:59:58 * persia tries to find jcrigby's handy kernel packaging instructions Jul 11 04:00:27 persia: Have you seen how I use computers? Heck, even my mobile phone is pretty much just a mobile terminal emulator. Jul 11 04:00:40 do I need to strip the .gitignores? Jul 11 04:00:41 persia: X exists to multiplex terminals. That's it. Jul 11 04:01:12 infinity, I've seen you use GUI browsers :p Jul 11 04:01:23 lilstevie, https://wiki.linaro.org/Resources/HowTo/PackageYourOwnKernel Jul 11 04:01:35 It's not absolutely perfect, but it will get you 95% of the way there. Jul 11 04:01:57 persia: I blame that on the fact that HTML5 and Flash and other fancy crap is pretty painful in lftp/w3m/lynx/etc. Jul 11 04:01:58 If you want a comparison source, take a look at the linux-n900 package: I tweaked a few bits there. Jul 11 04:02:24 infinity, You just haven't configured your MIME handlers properly then. Jul 11 04:02:48 Heh. Jul 11 04:03:18 lilstevie, Actually, please ignore the hints to add ccache in that HOWTO: I forgot to clear that, and my first upload FTBFS. Jul 11 04:03:38 heh ok Jul 11 04:04:03 If any of the free swf reader libraries were actually usable, I'd totally waste a weekend writing an aalib frontend. Jul 11 04:04:15 Why aalib? Jul 11 04:04:27 No reason you can't spawn a useful viewer Jul 11 04:04:38 * persia fondly remembers web surfing with twm and no internal browser handlers Jul 11 04:04:54 Ahh, but if I want to live my life entirely in terminals. Jul 11 04:05:00 persia: thanks, will get on to that soon :) Jul 11 04:05:06 There are any number of terminals that can show bitmaps... Jul 11 04:05:27 lilstevie, If you get stuck or run out of time, let me know, and I'll see what I can do from your git tree. Jul 11 04:05:39 Well, I guess with framebuffers being the norm these days. In my mind, I still live in a "terminal = text mode" world. Jul 11 04:05:48 Even if that's almost never true anymore. Jul 11 04:05:53 But I'd rather if you have time to learn it, as I'd be counting on you to maintain it :) Jul 11 04:06:07 persia: :) no problems Jul 11 04:06:49 Cool. Two more kernels queued :) Jul 11 04:07:21 Now if only there were documentation on how to create an image with arbitrary kernels and extra driver bits from a published rootfs... Jul 11 04:08:23 * infinity glares. Jul 11 04:08:43 We'll get there. Jul 11 04:09:44 We're not in a terrible hurry. The kernels need a preview cycle before any of the product managers are supposed to request an image anyway. Jul 11 04:10:03 (sometimes people work around that, but it involves bribing the release managers, and it's just easier to wait a few extra months). Jul 11 04:10:08 heh Jul 11 04:10:17 I accept pie. Jul 11 04:11:04 And peanut butter cookies. Jul 11 04:11:15 I've been trying to get someone to send me homemade peanut butter cookies for months. Jul 11 04:11:38 I'll accept a job Jul 11 04:11:38 :p Jul 11 04:12:00 I'll give you a job baking me cookies. That's some corporate synergy right there. Jul 11 04:12:09 hah Jul 11 04:12:39 * persia suggests http://www.simplesimonpies.com/ as preferred pie provisioners Jul 11 04:13:18 persia: They don't have pumpkin. Jul 11 04:13:21 * micahg wishes -pie and arm would get along Jul 11 04:13:31 infinity, You failed to specify Jul 11 04:13:41 micahg: We have Top Men working on that bug, apparently. Jul 11 04:14:38 * persia has lost the site for delivery of peanut butter cookies, unfortunately :( Jul 11 04:19:12 * micahg wonders if giving infinity pie will get me -pie on arm :) Jul 11 04:19:12 persia : Delivery .. of .. wha? Jul 11 04:19:20 persia : Sign me up. Jul 11 04:19:50 * Martyn is busy putting in even _more_ patches to u-boot Jul 11 04:20:02 to allow loading configs from disk, with menu Jul 11 04:20:06 approaching syslinux capability now Jul 11 04:20:13 syslinux levels of capability rather Jul 11 04:20:20 Martyn, We've a temporary issue: simplesimonpies apparently doesn't carry pumpkin, which means we aren't actually arranging a delivery just now. Jul 11 04:20:31 poo Jul 11 04:21:05 Martyn, Did you see jcrigby's proposal for the configuration file? He had something that would allow one u-boot compilation per SoC, rather than per-board (at least in theory). Jul 11 04:21:09 Not to mention pecan-coconut being an abomination. Jul 11 04:21:19 I did .. Jul 11 04:21:22 persia : It's a ways off though Jul 11 04:21:54 infinity : coconut creme, equally so Jul 11 04:23:59 Hrm? I thought it was RSN, for a unified OMAP u-boot. Jul 11 04:24:37 persia: I didn't get the impression that it was THAT soon when we chatted about it in Dublin. Jul 11 04:24:49 persia: Just a definite "working-toward" thing. Jul 11 04:24:53 Which beats "it's on the TODO". Jul 11 04:25:36 yep Jul 11 04:25:45 it _might_ be ready, just after Oneric Jul 11 04:26:00 GrueMaster: mahmoh: found the issue with pxe Jul 11 04:26:07 is a bug at the device tree support at u-boot Jul 11 04:26:10 rsalveti: Issue? Jul 11 04:26:14 rsalveti: *perk* Jul 11 04:26:17 rsalveti, Nice! Jul 11 04:26:22 what happened? Jul 11 04:26:30 rsalveti, you are my hero! Jul 11 04:26:45 Martyn, I'm reminded: do you have network and usb gadget drivers for u-boot for your devices? Jul 11 04:26:54 network, yes Jul 11 04:26:58 USB, no (we don't do USB) Jul 11 04:27:09 Heh, if there's no port, there's no need for the driver. Jul 11 04:27:28 But if you don't do USB, how do you handle KVM? Jul 11 04:27:39 Well, in-theory- I guess you could put a USB device on a PCIe bus .. but .. um .. yea Jul 11 04:27:44 jcrigby: hey! Jul 11 04:27:52 persia : We have our own built-in management CPU Jul 11 04:27:55 the issue is kind of stupid Jul 11 04:28:04 persia : Where we're going .. we don't need .. keyboards: ) Jul 11 04:28:06 Martyn, So only VKVM via IPMI? Jul 11 04:28:17 SOL, yep Jul 11 04:28:20 all out of band Jul 11 04:28:27 Ah, that works. Jul 11 04:28:28 jcrigby: common/cmd_pxecfg.c, check function label_boot Jul 11 04:28:39 rsalveti : Looking here too Jul 11 04:28:44 jcrigby: in the end it tries to set the agv[3] Jul 11 04:28:51 bootm_argv[3] = getenv("fdtaddr"); Jul 11 04:28:58 and later call do_bootm(NULL, 0, 4, bootm_argv); Jul 11 04:29:03 so argc is always 4 Jul 11 04:29:11 Most of the implementations I've seen in the past end up wiring something that looks like PS/2 or USB to the HW, but if you don't need that, more power to you (or rather more power saved, really). Jul 11 04:29:11 even when argv[3] is NULL Jul 11 04:29:34 so later on u-boot things the ftd file is there, because argc > 3 Jul 11 04:29:43 and tries to use it, and boom, seg fault Jul 11 04:29:49 Aha! Jul 11 04:30:04 so, transformer is wifi capable now, but this is far from optimal Jul 11 04:30:15 rsalveti : Oops.. Jul 11 04:30:17 needs a full network block in the wpa_supplicant Jul 11 04:30:20 no scanning Jul 11 04:30:24 Martyn: :-) Jul 11 04:30:25 rsalveti : Make sure you tell jason.hobbs@calxeda.com Jul 11 04:30:33 we'll fix it ... Jul 11 04:30:34 Martyn: sure, cooking a patch now Jul 11 04:30:46 plus it means we need to patch the upstream, again .. *sigh* Jul 11 04:31:21 * Martyn is on the trail of getting rid of pre-baked configs in configuration.h now Jul 11 04:32:15 since, if everything works according to plan, you'll be able to load the configuration and environment in u-boot from -- an AHCI device (FAT/EXT2,3,4), off the network, off some local flash ... Jul 11 04:32:21 instead of having it all baked in Jul 11 04:32:41 leaving the only thing needing to be baked in .. the order of where to search Jul 11 04:32:49 Why? Jul 11 04:33:51 Create a menu that lists the various (detected) options, and whilst it is scanning them, waits for the user to select the preferred one. Jul 11 04:34:08 if the user completely fails to be paying attention, then fall back to a predetermined order once the scan is complete. Jul 11 04:34:18 rsalveti: when you have a u-boot with a patched pxe please ping me Jul 11 04:34:26 mahmoh: in a minute :-) Jul 11 04:34:35 persia : Chicken and egg problem Jul 11 04:34:40 Martyn, Why? Jul 11 04:34:59 persia : Because even with a timeout, you need to have -some- indication of where to look first Jul 11 04:35:07 since the u-boot environment is coming from there, and not from configuration.h Jul 11 04:35:27 Martyn, So, as you're doing device discovery, you're prepared to accept an interrupt from console input. If an interrupt is received, you wait for the user to confirm the list before proceeding. If no interrupt is received, you go ahead with your prebaked order. Jul 11 04:35:31 persia : Also, u-boot doesn't do detection Jul 11 04:35:37 persia : At least, not _yet_ it doesn't Jul 11 04:35:44 Fix the yet :p Jul 11 04:35:49 it only detects what you tell it to :) Jul 11 04:36:05 yes yes yes Jul 11 04:36:15 But I'll attack this one (large) problem at a time Jul 11 04:36:20 rsalveti: in a min.? I was hoping tmw ;) Jul 11 04:36:24 if I try to patch too much at once, Wolfgang will have kittens Jul 11 04:36:46 haha Jul 11 04:36:53 lol Jul 11 04:37:13 Martyn, So, short term: you tell it to detect foo, bar, baz, and quux in a predetermined order for your hardware. Jul 11 04:37:24 Then you start constructing a menu whilst it's doing that. Jul 11 04:37:40 And if the user does something, you let them reorder the sequence before starting the selected config. Jul 11 04:37:50 If the user is too slow, you proceed with your initial intentions. Jul 11 04:38:03 Yep, that's more or less what's in store Jul 11 04:38:11 although the menu generation code is brand-spanking new Jul 11 04:38:17 and it's really designed to handle PXE stuff Jul 11 04:38:27 however, things are progressing nicely Jul 11 04:38:33 Ah, good. Your initial announcement made me think it was just going to check foo, bar, baz, and quux in compile-time order, and boot the config found first. Jul 11 04:38:53 persia : Well that's what _will_ happen in the first pass Jul 11 04:38:53 (which config might include a menu, etc.) Jul 11 04:38:57 Awwww..... Jul 11 04:39:13 however, from whatever source it finds first, it will load the menu Jul 11 04:39:33 and so it's not any worse than, say, syslinux booting from EXT2, or a CD, or whatever Jul 11 04:39:49 And thanks to the AHCI support, it just may .. MAY .. be possible for me to boot a CD on ARM .. wouldn't that be something? Jul 11 04:40:09 Just in time for the whole CD technology to go obsolete, of course .. but .. :) Jul 11 04:40:10 I'm going to pretend you didn't say that. Jul 11 04:40:16 I suppose. Can't we do that today with EHCI and USB CD drives? Jul 11 04:40:31 If someone asks me for ARM ISOs, I intend to stuff my fingers in my ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you". Jul 11 04:40:47 mahmoh: http://people.canonical.com/~rsalveti/pxe/3/u-boot.bin Jul 11 04:40:57 infinity : I -promise- you the format of an ARM CD will be something simple and sane Jul 11 04:41:03 infinity, There is a reason why the provided images on cdimage.ubuntu.com are supposed to be less than 700MB compressed. Jul 11 04:41:13 infinity, Something about tradeshows and pressing costs... Jul 11 04:41:13 infinity : Such that you won't have to bend your tools Jul 11 04:41:28 Martyn: Good, I don't like bending my tool. Jul 11 04:41:30 Err. Jul 11 04:41:34 infinity: But ARM is a good place to break clean away from CD's Jul 11 04:41:42 Martyn, they have already been warped beyond recognition, in ways that may significantly improve the situation for other architectures. Jul 11 04:41:50 infinity: There is absolutely NO reason that we shouldn't be booting from good, standard 1G memory sticks Jul 11 04:42:20 Martyn: Yeah, I tend to boot from USB or SD on all my non-ARM hardware too. Jul 11 04:42:21 I have put in an order for 500 ubuntu, oneric logo'ed usb keys for Orlando to give away Jul 11 04:42:26 Martyn, trade shows...pressing costs... Jul 11 04:42:31 (But in that case, it often involves pretending it's a CD, which is VILE) Jul 11 04:42:47 infinity: It shouldn't ... at least not on ARM Jul 11 04:43:02 infinity : AFAIK, the ARM installer is nothing more than the standard net installer really.. Jul 11 04:43:09 infinity, Hrm? Even most of my powerpcs can boot from USB if I glower at them enough. Jul 11 04:43:23 bunch of seeds and a repository .. which is a far easier layout than the usual CD layout Jul 11 04:43:35 no ISO9660 to worry about Jul 11 04:43:35 persia: I was pointing a finger at x86 in that case. PPC is much saner, as are all the arches that grew up in the UNIX world. Jul 11 04:43:44 Martyn, So, there are *four* installers currently provided (well, three and the one expected later this week). Jul 11 04:43:53 yeah, noticed that Jul 11 04:44:09 infinity, I don't believe I have any remaining x86 devices that can't boot USB, but then I'm kinda rough on hardware. Jul 11 04:45:20 * Martyn got his hands on a Nufront machine .. cute laptop, but FLIMSY Jul 11 04:45:36 someone out there MUST be making a better laptop with the Cortex A9 Jul 11 04:45:46 Martyn, All of them are based on debian-installer in one way or another. We have the base d-i environment (sometimes called "alternate" or "netboot"), the ubiquity wrapper for running it in a live environment, jasper which does just enough to launch oem-config, another d-i wrapper, and another initramfs shim (yet to be named), which again does just enough to run oem-config (at least, as last I heard it described). Jul 11 04:46:15 Although I did see a Kal-El based prototype here in Austin that -was- seeeeexxxy ... looked like a thin thinkpad .. ran 2Ghz, had 3Gb of RAM Jul 11 04:46:42 mahmoh: let me know if it works for you Jul 11 04:46:46 jcrigby: just sent you the patch Jul 11 04:46:51 had one hell of a pretty screen (1400x900) too Jul 11 04:46:56 Martyn: also included jason Jul 11 04:47:00 thanks! Jul 11 04:47:09 he'll get to it tomorrow when he gets into work Jul 11 04:47:25 * Martyn is doing OpenMPI work this weekend Jul 11 04:47:40 making sure the whole OpenMPI set works .. Jul 11 04:47:50 great, panda booted with PXE :-) Jul 11 04:47:52 and working fine Jul 11 04:47:56 then I need to convince all -you- folks to compile and put OpenMPI 1.5.3 into the repository Jul 11 04:47:57 awesome Jul 11 04:48:07 jcrigby: then we just need to fix the mac address problem with panda Jul 11 04:48:07 rsalveti : Awesome... Jul 11 04:48:10 rsalveti : Doesn Jul 11 04:48:15 and it'll be done :-) Jul 11 04:48:16 Doesn't the panda use a USB adapter? Jul 11 04:48:31 so you have to get USB up first, then the network adapter, then get all the PXE stuff up? Ever fun. Jul 11 04:48:36 Martyn: it uses smsc95xx, usb hub and usb eth Jul 11 04:48:45 yeah.. thought so Jul 11 04:48:57 the kernel is setting a unique mac address using the die id Jul 11 04:49:01 rsalveti: small problem Jul 11 04:49:02 we just need to use the same code at u-boot Jul 11 04:49:07 I'll be -much- happier when more SoC vendors get off their asses and integrate a NIC right into the AMBA bus like we do Jul 11 04:49:16 mahmoh: didn't work? Jul 11 04:49:22 rsalveti: it works, now I have more work to do! I was hoping for a few days off ;) Jul 11 04:49:33 rsalveti: want a bug for it? Jul 11 04:49:35 mahmoh: ;-) Jul 11 04:49:38 Buah-ha-ha-ha! Jul 11 04:49:50 mahmoh: don't need, just sent the patch to jcrigby Jul 11 04:50:07 rsalveti: ok but we should track the work ... Jul 11 04:50:19 hm, maybe a bug to update the package before the 07 release... Jul 11 04:50:24 mahmoh: yeah, please fill a bug :-) Jul 11 04:50:26 Bah. Filing bugs is for when you *don't have the fix ready. Jul 11 04:50:29 then we can patch the package Jul 11 04:50:37 and properly track it Jul 11 04:51:12 rsalveti: against lp:u-boot? Jul 11 04:51:25 mahmoh: against package u-boot-linaro Jul 11 04:51:37 you can also link at u-boot-linaro project Jul 11 04:51:50 mahmoh: let me know the number and I'll take care of it Jul 11 04:51:54 shortly Jul 11 04:55:09 rsalveti: u-boot-linaro ? Jul 11 04:55:18 mahmoh: yup Jul 11 04:55:37 rsalveti: I'll file it there then you can add the other one? Jul 11 04:55:42 mahmoh: sure Jul 11 04:55:48 sweet, thx Jul 11 05:00:32 rsalveti : Hey, mail me the patch as well -- martin@calxeda.com Jul 11 05:00:49 Martyn: sure, 1 sec Jul 11 05:01:03 (yeah, different style address to everyone else ... early hire hath it's privs ... and besides, who wants to type martin.bogomolni@ all day?) Jul 11 05:01:31 Martyn: sent Jul 11 05:01:54 danke Jul 11 05:06:29 rsalveti: is this panda specific? I'm guessing not. Jul 11 05:06:36 mahmoh: nops Jul 11 05:07:04 but you'll only find this issue if you build with CONFIG_OF_LIBFDT Jul 11 05:07:57 rsalveti: all yours, thx all! https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot-linaro/+bug/808612 Jul 11 05:07:58 Ubuntu bug 808612 in u-boot-linaro "pxe fails after loading kernel and initrd" [Undecided,New] Jul 11 05:08:12 mahmoh: great, thanks Jul 11 05:08:16 np Jul 11 05:10:55 nighty, nite Jul 11 05:11:24 and good work, I appreciate it (everyone) Jul 11 09:09:29 hi all Jul 11 09:10:12 can any one point me how to build a rootfs using rootstock for custom kernel Jul 11 09:20:23 iam following steps mentioned at here to build rootfs Jul 11 09:20:32 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu Jul 11 09:20:55 i have a doubt in Jul 11 09:20:58 stm__: For which board? Jul 11 09:21:00 sudo ./rootstock --fqdn omap --login ubuntu --password temppwd --imagesize 2G \ --seed wget,nano,linux-firmware,wireless-tools,usbutils --dist natty --serial ttyO2 \ --components "main universe multiverse" \ --kernel-image http://rcn-ee.net/deb/natty/v2.6.39-x1/linux-image-2.6.39-x1_1.0natty_armel.deb Jul 11 09:21:06 pandaboard Jul 11 09:21:31 what changes i have to do in the above command Jul 11 09:21:40 i have bulded uimage Jul 11 09:21:47 I don't think you need to make any changes? Jul 11 09:21:56 What's wrong with the image that's produced? Jul 11 09:22:01 of xenomai patched kernel 2.6.37.6 Jul 11 09:23:18 no , i have to build rootfs for the custom kernel Jul 11 09:23:48 which patched with xenomai alreay Jul 11 09:24:30 how should i use that kernl to build the rootfs Jul 11 09:58:35 stm__: Sorry, I didn't know you replied Jul 11 09:58:49 stm__: Please use my nick when replying Jul 11 09:59:02 ok Jul 11 09:59:07 stm__: The rootfs is not built for the kernel Jul 11 09:59:27 stm__: Once you have a rootfs you can just install a new kernel into it and it'll just work Jul 11 09:59:40 stm__: Is your kernel in *.deb or uImage form? Jul 11 10:00:15 lag: mkdir /tmp/xeno cd /tmp/xeno wget http://www.codesourcery.com/sgpp/lite/arm/portal/package7851/public/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/arm-2010.09-50-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 tar -xvjf arm-2010.09-50-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2 export PATH=/tmp/xeno/arm-2010.09/bin:$PATH git clone --depth 1 git://git.xenomai.org/xenomai-2.5.git git clone --depth 1 --branch for-ipipe-2.6.37-arm git://git.xeno Jul 11 10:00:47 lag: this is the procedure i got the patched kernel and Jul 11 10:00:58 builded u Image Jul 11 10:02:02 lag: how should i build the rootfs using this uImage Jul 11 10:02:53 stm__: You don't Jul 11 10:03:09 stm__: I'm assuming you're using an SD card? Jul 11 10:03:21 lag: yes Jul 11 10:03:25 iam using sdcard Jul 11 10:03:41 Mount the SD card Jul 11 10:04:20 Llag: i placed uImage and mlo and uboot.bin in fat16 partion Jul 11 10:04:29 sorry Jul 11 10:04:34 That's it then Jul 11 10:04:35 lag Jul 11 10:04:37 Boot it Jul 11 10:04:57 All you have to do is replace the uImage with your own kernel Jul 11 10:05:03 placed modules on ext partion Jul 11 10:05:12 Great Jul 11 10:05:18 Done - boot it Jul 11 10:05:49 lag: its not booting Jul 11 10:06:02 Then there's a problem with the kernel Jul 11 10:06:19 Or u-boot Jul 11 10:06:26 Does u-boot boot? Jul 11 10:06:43 if dide not use update initramfs then its givng me root partion is not mounted Jul 11 10:06:58 u-boot Jul 11 10:07:33 Paste me your output Jul 11 10:07:34 lag: if i done update initramfs Jul 11 10:07:43 @ paste.ubuntu.com Jul 11 10:08:04 ok Jul 11 10:21:00 lag:http://paste.ubuntu.com/641780/ Jul 11 10:22:32 stm__: Can you paste your u-boot variables (printenv) Jul 11 10:22:55 stm__: Did you back-up the old kernel? Does that still work? Jul 11 10:23:11 lag: yes i backuped Jul 11 10:23:36 In: serial Out: serial Err: serial Hit any key to stop autoboot: 0 Panda # printenv bootcmd=if mmc init ${mmcdev} Jul 11 10:23:44 sorry Jul 11 10:24:44 bootcmd=if mmc init ${mmcdev}; then if run loadbootscript; then run bootscript;i bootdelay=3 Jul 11 10:25:13 bootcmd=if mmc init ${mmcdev}; then if run loadbootscript; then run bootscript;i bootdelay=3 baudrate=115200 loadaddr=0x82000000 console=ttyS2,115200n8 usbtty=cdc_acm Jul 11 10:26:12 mmcdev=1 mmcroot=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw mmcrootfstype=ext3 rootwait Jul 11 10:27:33 lag: here is the printenv Jul 11 10:27:35 http://paste.ubuntu.com/641786/ Jul 11 10:30:51 the board booting up with the old kernel nd with this bootargs Jul 11 10:32:30 It may just be a serial issue Jul 11 10:32:59 you mean ttyO2 Jul 11 10:33:02 In your rootstock command you had ttyO2, whereas in u-boot is says ttyS2 Jul 11 10:33:23 The kernel could actually be running just fine Jul 11 10:37:26 lag: but the rootstock created images or configs related to kernel 2.6.38. Jul 11 10:37:40 but my kernel is 2.6.37.6 Jul 11 10:38:07 i have tried changing in bootscr file Jul 11 10:38:14 ttyo2 Jul 11 10:39:25 Is this might be because of configs the boot program uses during booting Jul 11 10:43:28 Mount the card again and provide me with `ls /etc/init` Jul 11 10:43:51 From /rootfs/ Jul 11 10:47:30 stm__: It's not ttyo2, it's ttyO2 Jul 11 10:54:51 lag:yes Jul 11 11:02:34 lag: http://paste.ubuntu.com/641802/ Jul 11 11:02:50 the init contails different configs Jul 11 11:06:36 Are you sure this is the rootfs you built with rootstock Jul 11 11:06:54 Unless I am mistaken, you are missing the serial init script Jul 11 11:07:34 I see tty[1,2,3,4,5,6], but no ttyO1 Jul 11 11:09:12 stm__: Paste me your boot.scr Jul 11 11:09:43 stm__: And try issuing this in u-boot: setenv console ttyO2,115200n8 Jul 11 11:09:55 Then type boot Jul 11 11:10:12 lag: ok Jul 11 12:15:46 lag: http://paste.ubuntu.com/641839/ Jul 11 12:16:01 here is the log Jul 11 12:16:17 it seems i have some problem Jul 11 12:16:34 i can able to login through console Jul 11 12:17:03 Did you change the boot.scr? Jul 11 12:24:42 lag: no actually last time i used the mlo and uboot.bin from ubuntu10.10 builin binaries Jul 11 12:24:58 but now i canged the mlo and uboot.bin Jul 11 12:26:08 Well for some reason your boot.scr is no longer being successfully read Jul 11 12:26:10 i mean i builded mlo and uboot.bin Jul 11 12:29:13 lag: how should i know that the problem Jul 11 12:34:55 does anyone know if a simple USB stick would suffice to alleviate the performance issues associated with using SD as the main storage on the pandaboard? Jul 11 12:34:57 It's hard to judge Jul 11 12:35:03 i.e. is the problem with flash or SD Jul 11 12:35:06 Firstly make sure it's still there and readable Jul 11 12:35:12 And that you haven't change it in any way Jul 11 12:35:51 i don't actually need that much storage space but would rather not have all the lag Jul 11 12:46:39 lag: how can i make the initrd.img-2.6.38-8-omap to uinitrd Jul 11 12:49:42 http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#U-Boot_uImage_and_uInitrd Jul 11 12:49:59 stm__: Google really is your friend Jul 11 12:50:32 hmm . iam sorry Jul 11 13:15:20 brendand, It depends on the USB stick. There are USB sticks that are faster than some SD cards, but flash connected to USB isn't that different from flash connected to MMC connected to USB, and there's plenty of USB sticks that are implemented as USB to MMC to flash anyway (I have at least one where you can see the microSD through the plastic, but it's firmly glued in). Jul 11 13:15:46 persia - that's a whole can of worms Jul 11 13:16:33 brendand, The big win with rotary disks or fast SSD is twofold: 1) they tend to have cache RAM, often with advanced precaching algorithms, and 2) they tend to be turned for non-sequential reads. Jul 11 13:17:34 Whereas most flash is tuned for sequential reads, as the presumed use cases are things like "store media", "stream media", "transfer some files", etc. Jul 11 13:19:11 persia - from a previous life i'm all too aware of that :) Jul 11 13:20:01 i once tested a 32GB Panasonic SDHC card which was designed for HD camcorders Jul 11 13:20:22 but when you tried random access operations on it... Jul 11 13:20:58 Then you understand precisely why running an operating system from SD isn't precisely fast. Jul 11 13:21:08 yes Jul 11 13:21:58 so i guess my safest bet is a proper usb rotary disk drive Jul 11 13:22:16 Or fast SSD, if you have some extras laying about :) Jul 11 13:22:33 i don't want to spend $100 for 1TB of storage i don't need Jul 11 13:22:46 that seems to be the smallest you can get in most shops these days Jul 11 13:22:57 probably looking online might do it Jul 11 13:29:48 brendand: what board are you using? Jul 11 13:29:59 mahmoh - panda Jul 11 13:47:36 hallo zusammen Jul 11 13:48:45 Good morning. Jul 11 13:49:30 hello, is there a way to INSTALL ubuntu on a pandaboard using a small (<=2gb) sdcard for boot and a USB pendrive for root? i manage to do it with archlinux and gentoo but i can't figure a way to do it with ubuntu Jul 11 13:51:46 LPhas: yes, you can specify your root=/dev/sda2 or similar on the kernel command line (assuming you have your root fs on the the first USB stick attached/detected) or install to the USB stick Jul 11 13:52:29 mahmoh, ok i know how to boot with root on a usb stick, but i don't know how install root on a usb stick Jul 11 13:52:37 LPhas, The documentation for that is not yet ready (as we're just finishing making it simple). Jul 11 13:52:39 i do not have any sdcard > 2gb Jul 11 13:52:41 LPhas: you can use the new netinstaller for the insall, Jul 11 13:52:43 install Jul 11 13:52:56 mahmoh, let see Jul 11 13:52:56 or you can copy what you have over to the USB stick Jul 11 13:53:50 Be aware that the netinstaller is only available for the development release right now: if you want a production install, you'll want the store© solution. Jul 11 13:54:01 mahmoh, were can i find the netinstaller image for omap4? Jul 11 13:54:57 LPhas: http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/oneiric/main/installer-armel/current/images/omap4/netboot/ from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP Jul 11 13:56:19 LPhas: note the partitioning caveat! Jul 11 13:56:54 yep reading it Jul 11 13:58:04 how do i use these images? i guess that uInitrd, uImage, boot.scr goes on the usual boot partition Jul 11 13:58:13 but the boot.img* file where it goes? Jul 11 13:58:57 LPhas: boot.img contains the all of them, if you're using then separately you won't need them Jul 11 13:59:06 ook Jul 11 13:59:08 ^them^it Jul 11 13:59:32 so basically i put the files in the boot partition in the sdcard, plug the usb stick, start installation and install / on sdcard Jul 11 13:59:38 ehm on usb Jul 11 14:00:21 but if i must put these files on the sdcard Jul 11 14:00:27 and then repartition sdcard Jul 11 14:00:38 i mean.. this sound strange Jul 11 14:00:50 LPhas: install / on USB stick, no? The quickest way would be to just copy the partition you have over to the USB stick, it depends on what your goal is I guess? Jul 11 14:01:17 LPhas, You can partition the SD card *first*, and then copy in the files you need. This avoids repartioning. Jul 11 14:01:38 LPhas: you'll be using the SD card to boot (like a bios) then handing over the root fs to the kernel on the USB stick Jul 11 14:02:06 Um, no. Jul 11 14:02:30 mahmoh, yeah, this i get and it's basically what i do with gentoo Jul 11 14:02:33 If we're looking at a BIOS model, it's bios+bootflash accelerator. Jul 11 14:02:39 it's the installation process that bothers me Jul 11 14:02:59 well, let make some experiments, i will be back Jul 11 14:03:07 LPhas: good luck Jul 11 14:03:40 persia: excuse my sloppy example ;) Jul 11 14:04:26 Excused. I just think it's important to be correct when drawing parallels, as the details can cause confusion later. Jul 11 14:04:49 Err. s/correct/precise/ (yes, I'm guilty too) Jul 11 14:05:14 persia: fair Jul 11 14:06:00 isn't there something missing? like MLO? Jul 11 14:06:21 you can use the same one that's already on your SD Jul 11 14:06:39 the one i just deleted? Jul 11 14:06:41 LPhas, good catch. There's one in the boot.img files (just loop-mount one). Jul 11 14:06:47 oops Jul 11 14:06:48 (na, joking i made a backup) Jul 11 14:07:03 NCommander, Any reason not to expose MLO as an available netboot download option? Jul 11 14:08:27 LPhas: people claim that if you don't write the MLO first to a clean boot partition it may not boot, fyi Jul 11 14:08:52 persia, not really, beyond "we have never done it before" Jul 11 14:08:57 also u-boot.bin Jul 11 14:09:02 yeah Jul 11 14:09:19 can you file a bug against debian-installer ? Jul 11 14:09:31 ogra_, That's because most of the netinst targets have SPL in flash, and we rely on vendor SPL. Jul 11 14:10:00 persia, nope, thats just because we always built mini isos in the past and sold them as netinst ;) Jul 11 14:10:43 with the exception of versatile where we only wanted a kernel :) Jul 11 14:12:04 to use the img* instead is ony dd if=img of=device ? Jul 11 14:12:19 yes Jul 11 14:16:28 the installer look a beutyful Jul 11 14:17:04 beautyful Jul 11 14:18:34 ogra_, Erm, no. See http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/dists/oneiric/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/ Jul 11 14:18:47 That has kernel, initrd, and yaboot. Jul 11 14:18:52 But it *doesn't* have OF. Jul 11 14:22:26 mahmoh, ok now i'm officially confused. i'm at this point http://img233.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2fy.png/ Jul 11 14:23:18 now i think that the correct way of doying it is to create a partition for / on the usb stick Jul 11 14:23:28 and a partition for /boot on the SDcard Jul 11 14:24:05 LPhas, You want /boot on USB as well: there's a utility called flash-kernel that will extract stuff from /boot and stick it in the FAT partition on the SD card. Jul 11 14:24:22 persia, i'm tsalking about arm Jul 11 14:24:26 (well, you could also put /boot on *another* partition on the SD card, if you prefer, but that's just for fun) Jul 11 14:24:27 persia, ok and i'm supposed to run it when? Jul 11 14:24:53 LPhas, The installer will run it automatically as part of the install, and it will be run automatically whenever you install a new kernel. Jul 11 14:24:59 ok Jul 11 14:25:14 LPhas: so yo don't have to have boot separate though, just make sure you create a fat32 partition on the MMC/SD and make that bootable too Jul 11 14:25:26 oh Jul 11 14:25:29 ogra_, Architecture doesn't matter. Even for ARM targets where we use vendor SPL, the current stuff is fine. Jul 11 14:25:36 so the note about partitioning in the guide refers to that Jul 11 14:25:48 and I assume you have sda #2 as / since I cannot see it Jul 11 14:25:54 ogra_, And for targets for *any other* architecture where we wanted to use our SPL, we'd need to do the same. Jul 11 14:26:10 and i have to create a separate /boot partition on the usb drive or can i just do only one partition for / (and another for swap maybe) Jul 11 14:26:26 LPhas, You can get by with just the one partition if you like. Jul 11 14:26:28 still, i was referring to arm and the fact that we never provided actual netboot images Jul 11 14:27:07 swap is a nice thing on the USB stick if you don't mind the usage Jul 11 14:27:17 ogra_, Wasn't there some netboot images that worked with Freescale redboot for the Babbage? Jul 11 14:27:24 i can buy another 8gb card for 4 euros Jul 11 14:27:28 persia, yes, mini isos Jul 11 14:27:33 Swap on flash is bad for the flash, whether it's USB or not. Jul 11 14:27:36 same goes for omap3 Jul 11 14:28:00 For omap3, I thought we always wanted our own u-boot. Jul 11 14:28:19 Anyway, if we used vendor SPL on the babbage, then the ancillary files would have worked without needing to be the mini ISO. Jul 11 14:28:19 we have (had) mini isos for beagle Jul 11 14:28:32 in lucid ... Jul 11 14:28:47 Yes, but those contained the SPL. Jul 11 14:30:10 "No mount point is assigned for the fat32 file system in partition #1" and this message should means that i've done correctly, am i right? Jul 11 14:30:18 LPhas, Yes. Jul 11 14:31:36 * mahmoh1 has personality problems for 60 mins ... Jul 11 14:32:12 * persia waits for bzr Jul 11 14:36:14 mahmoh1: were you able to test the netboot image with pxe? Jul 11 14:37:35 rsalveti: yes, booted and installed fine with a tweek - we'll need to setup kernel_ram and initrd_ram addresses manually for now unless you specify it in the boot.scr or uEnv.txt - I'll throw in a bug for it Jul 11 14:37:46 tweak Jul 11 14:38:38 mahmoh1: I believe it should be fine to have that values as default at boot cmdline for panda Jul 11 14:39:08 rsalveti: yeah, all the other boot options have addresses assigned, I think it was an oversight Jul 11 14:39:29 mahmoh1: yeah, open a bug, and we'll see what to do :-) Jul 11 14:39:32 but that's the only thing I think needs changing Jul 11 14:39:35 what's the default video driver used by ubuntu in omap4? Jul 11 14:39:36 thx Jul 11 14:39:52 Anyone have any suggestions for descriptions for MLO and u-boot.bin? Jul 11 14:40:12 persia, x-boot image, u-boot image? Jul 11 14:40:15 first stage bootloader and second stage bootloader ? Jul 11 14:40:16 LPhas, The default is just framebuffer. TI has a PPA with powervr drivers that many people use. Jul 11 14:40:40 LPhas, Not very informative, but maybe :) Jul 11 14:40:51 rsalveti: panda specific bug? u-boot-linaro-panda? Jul 11 14:41:07 xboot image (second stage bootloader), u-boot image (first stage bootloader) Jul 11 14:41:09 mahmoh1: u-boot-linaro package :-) Jul 11 14:41:10 ogra_, The issue there is that there is too much terminology using that structure. The "S" in SPL stands for "second", but that's MLO. Jul 11 14:41:17 ack Jul 11 14:41:20 but yeah, specific to panda Jul 11 14:41:42 persia, powervr are the closed source driver, am i correct? Jul 11 14:41:43 persia, well, if you call hard wired ROM code FPL indeed Jul 11 14:41:50 LPhas, Yes. Jul 11 14:42:11 ogra_, Most folk seem to do so. I'm in agreement with you, but then I don't come from an embedded background. Jul 11 14:42:12 (which i wouldnt) Jul 11 14:42:59 well, i cant make up better descriptions :) Jul 11 14:43:00 is there a repository with binary omap-gstreamer that you know about? Jul 11 14:43:10 not for natty Jul 11 14:43:30 unless TI recently uploaded something Jul 11 14:44:35 ogra_, can i compile from sources i guess Jul 11 14:44:49 my whole point would be have pandaboard playback hd video with gstreamer Jul 11 14:45:11 rsalveti: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/u-boot-linaro/+bug/808815 thx Jul 11 14:45:12 Ubuntu bug 808815 in u-boot-linaro "pxe missing kernel_ram and initrd_ram defaults" [Undecided,New] Jul 11 14:45:42 * persia decides to go with "Mini Loader for OMAP Beagle" and "Universal Bootloader for OMAP Beagle" (switching Beagle/Panda when I get to that file) Jul 11 14:45:59 persia, http://omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project Jul 11 14:46:19 what would "mini loader" mean ? Jul 11 14:46:33 That's apparently what "MLO" abbreviates. Jul 11 14:46:37 no Jul 11 14:46:48 its Mmc LOader Jul 11 14:46:54 Your internet has a different selection of wild guesses than mine. Jul 11 14:46:58 Ah, cool. I'll use that. Jul 11 14:46:58 persia, i would mention uboot and xboot in the description, when a first got my hands on the pandaboard one thing i didn't figure out in the first momento was "what *CENSORED* is uboot?" Jul 11 14:47:50 persia, according to the doc above x-loader is 1st stage by their definition Jul 11 14:48:12 I know. Didn't I say there was wild inconsistency in the nomenclature? Jul 11 14:48:52 well, its conform with my assumption, no inconsistency at all :) Jul 11 14:49:07 bbib Jul 11 14:55:34 ogra_, The issue is that there is the IPL, SPL, TPL, QPL, PPL, HPL sequence, which implies cardinality which fails to match your and my prior understanding of bootloaders. Jul 11 15:02:20 * persia sadly watches bzr push 73K at 9kB/s for a 3019 character patch Jul 11 15:08:05 Or maybe it's lying, as that ought to have been done by now :( Jul 11 15:08:58 who did design the ascii installer for the omap4 netinstall? he's a genius Jul 11 15:09:01 i love it Jul 11 15:10:28 LPhas, The Debian Installer team. Jul 11 15:10:37 oh, i don't love it anymore Jul 11 15:11:27 it was a short infatuation Jul 11 15:12:10 What happened? Jul 11 15:14:34 i don't like debian :p Jul 11 15:18:08 Well, Ubuntu is heavily based on Debian: I hope your dislike doesn't translate (and maybe that we can erode some of it). Jul 11 15:19:22 yeah, ubuntu is basically debian, but they are intended for different porpuses. even if ubuntu is not my favourite distribution i can manage to live with it (an i used and loved it heavily in the past) but debian i can't stand it Jul 11 15:20:09 Intended for different purposes? Jul 11 15:20:19 yeah i mean Jul 11 15:20:31 as i see it, ubuntu is intended mainly for desktop/workstations Jul 11 15:20:37 while debian is mainly used for servers Jul 11 15:21:45 when i go for "software selection" should i include also "basic ubuntu server" or if i install "ubuntu desktop" there's no need for that? Jul 11 15:22:04 Nah, more like Debian is geared towards the hacker and Ubuntu is geared more towards the user. Jul 11 15:22:43 What are you going to do with your install? That should give you a direction on what task to select. Jul 11 15:22:50 GrueMaster, mmh i don't really share your point of view. there are more "hackish" distribution like gentoo (urgh) or archlinux (which i prefer) Jul 11 15:23:30 They're just different styles of hackish. Fedora could also count in that list. Jul 11 15:23:37 well, my goal is to have a working x installation possibily with a minimal window manager but also GNOME will be fine where i can run some gstreamer/python application Jul 11 15:23:52 as easily as possible Jul 11 15:24:04 so a full ubuntu installation is fine at the moment Jul 11 15:24:12 Then select Ubuntu Desktop or one of the other desktop environments. Jul 11 15:24:24 only that? Jul 11 15:24:48 Hrm. Ubuntu offers a server product, of which many folk are fairly proud (and any number of folks run Debian as desktop) Jul 11 15:24:51 yes. Just be aware that the more you select, the more of a chance it will fail due to pool churn. Jul 11 15:25:07 well... it failed Jul 11 15:25:39 persia, yep i know of ubuntu server, but it's really not my kind of server. (while i bet it has some advantages depends on what you do) Jul 11 15:25:40 Probably dependency issues. I've been seeing that since Alpha 2. Jul 11 15:25:59 GrueMaster, so do you think should i try? Jul 11 15:26:16 can i install "basic ubuntu server" and then add gnome-desktop later? Jul 11 15:26:27 Give it a try, but don't get your hopes up. It is installing oneiric after all. Jul 11 15:26:38 "oneiric"? Jul 11 15:27:26 You should be able to install ubuntu server. YOu could also not select anything here (I recommend openssh-server as a minimum). This will give you a minimal install and you can always add from there. Jul 11 15:27:43 let's try Jul 11 15:27:48 oneiric is the currently "in development" release. Jul 11 15:27:55 ok Jul 11 15:28:30 I'm not sure that the netinstall could be preseeded to pull from natty instead (but it would be nice). Jul 11 15:28:56 yeah, unstable is always quite.. unstable Jul 11 15:29:05 at least it was when i was using ubuntu years ago Jul 11 15:29:58 On arm it is more so due to the length of time it takes to rebuild dependencies. Jul 11 15:30:09 is it longer? why? Jul 11 15:30:46 We hope to get a cluster of pandas online soon to help with that. Right now, we only have a small handfull of single core 512M systems doing builds. Jul 11 15:36:15 GrueMaster, can't you just use cross compilers? Jul 11 15:37:12 Not really. They can be hit or miss. And a lot of packages have post-build test suites to verify the builds. Jul 11 15:37:36 mmh i see Jul 11 15:38:18 isn't possible to use cross compilers to compile the packages and move the post-build test on the actual hardware/emulated enviroment? that would be cool Jul 11 15:39:25 And painful. You would have to break up the build process, rewrite make files, bundle up partially completed builds, etc. Jul 11 15:39:36 i see that Jul 11 15:40:26 The reason for the poor hardware in the buildd pool is simply due to availability. Panda is the first dual core system that was widely available. Jul 11 15:40:35 And economical. Jul 11 15:41:18 i see Jul 11 15:41:47 so are you actually working in canonical? Jul 11 15:42:11 (if i may ask) Jul 11 15:42:26 Yes. I am the QA guy for the arm releases. But I also do some hackery on the side, when time allows. Jul 11 15:42:40 that's really cool Jul 11 15:43:03 I used to do alsa development for Intel HD Audio based systems. Jul 11 15:43:21 i'we always wanted to meet a canonical guy to say "good work guys, you changed the way that linux is" Jul 11 15:43:44 Heh, thanks. Glad to hear you like our work. Jul 11 15:47:04 one might like more hackish distros for himself, but only stupids can't appreciate the marvelous fact that you put a ubuntu cd (usb stick) and 30 minutes later you have a fully functioning linux based workstation with basically no effort Jul 11 15:47:27 I'll +1 that. Was annoyed at the direction natty took until I started using oneiric, regained my trust right there :) Jul 11 15:47:45 Part of my unofficial testing is to see if my mom can install and use it. So far, so good. Jul 11 15:47:52 (the +1 was for the "good work .." part btw :) ) Jul 11 15:48:12 haha, I Like the mom test :) Jul 11 15:48:15 still, seems that the installer didn't worked Jul 11 15:48:28 it completed successfully but it won't boot Jul 11 15:48:34 I do that constantly with xbmc also, if I can picture my mom using it its simple enough Jul 11 15:48:35 i don't have output on the serial console Jul 11 15:49:04 LPhas: YOu are using the netboot installer? Jul 11 15:49:09 yep Jul 11 15:49:19 for the record I installed ubuntu on my ex's moms computer a while back and she loved it so much more than windows :) soemthing I found quite a lot of fun Jul 11 15:49:40 Hmmm. I'll have to check it to make sure it is setting up a serial console properly after boot. Jul 11 15:50:27 well, there's no output at all, neither from the bootloader Jul 11 15:50:36 so problem is "before the boot" Jul 11 15:51:30 Not even any u-boot test? Jul 11 15:51:37 not even Jul 11 15:51:40 *text Jul 11 15:51:54 not a single bit on the serial Jul 11 15:52:02 not a blink from the led Jul 11 15:52:21 Hmm. I heard there may be a problem with the board not rebooting after install. Try just hitting reset and see if it comes up. Jul 11 15:53:02 nope Jul 11 15:53:53 that's quite strange because apparently there are u-boot.bin MLO uImage uInitrd on the partition of the sdcard Jul 11 15:54:00 also boot.scr Jul 11 15:54:51 Yes, but if the kernel doesn't actually reboot the system after install, they won't come up. Jul 11 15:55:01 yeah but i rebooted the pandaboard Jul 11 15:55:12 Reset does nothing? Jul 11 15:55:37 Can you check to see if the boot flag is enabled on the SD fat partition? Jul 11 15:55:51 Also check the partition type. Jul 11 15:56:09 reset does nothing Jul 11 15:56:16 for the boot flag give me some minute Jul 11 15:56:24 the only sd-enabled system i have is a mac Jul 11 15:56:30 and fdisk on osx is quite different Jul 11 15:59:25 mmh, i wrote a boot flag on the partition Jul 11 15:59:29 but stil won't boot Jul 11 16:05:36 Hmmm. Jul 11 16:06:08 i can see two things running parted Jul 11 16:06:12 ehm fdisk Jul 11 16:06:41 /dev/sdb1 * 2048 141311 69632 b W95 FAT32 Jul 11 16:06:47 Unfortunately, I am still ramping up hardware wise. I will look into this later today, after I run to the store and get some external drive enclosures. I have drives, just no enclosures. :( Jul 11 16:06:49 the first is that the partition doesn't start from sector 0 Jul 11 16:07:14 That is one problem. The other is the partition needs to be type c. Jul 11 16:07:23 "type c"? Jul 11 16:07:40 LBA Jul 11 16:07:43 oh Jul 11 16:07:51 well ok, i can manage to fix this i think Jul 11 16:07:59 Which version of the installer did you copy down? Jul 11 16:08:31 boot.img-fat-serial this i think Jul 11 16:08:50 on the guide they say that the partition should be 75 MiB Jul 11 16:08:58 should it be precisely this amount? Jul 11 16:09:15 cause i have a nice script that automatically partition the sdcard for the pandaboard Jul 11 16:09:23 but the boot partition is lik 66mib Jul 11 16:09:32 No, it can be as low as 20M, but 40-70 is recommended as flash-kernel backs up the old kernels. Jul 11 16:10:48 GrueMaster, Ncommander wrote that there was a bug which required the FAT partition to be 72MiB at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP : is this only conservative advice? Jul 11 16:11:29 persia: That is soley based on my recommendation from what the preinst images use. Jul 11 16:11:46 Heh. And now my understanding is complete :) Jul 11 16:11:49 I haven't had a chance to figure out a definitive size. Jul 11 16:12:22 But based on kernel and initrd sizes, we could probably go down to 40M. Jul 11 16:13:35 That'd cover about 5 updates? Jul 11 16:14:15 flash kernel only stores current & 1 previous version. Jul 11 16:15:31 In that case, I suspect we might be able to get down to ~30, but yeah, it's complicated (and widely depends on what one has in the initramfs) Jul 11 16:15:50 Not sure if we care about old versions of MLO and u-boot.bin. Jul 11 16:16:10 Personally, I think those are even more critical. Jul 11 16:16:20 If you don't have a working kernel, but you have a working bootloader, you can fuss about. Jul 11 16:16:54 If you don't have a working bootloader, your device is bricked, unless you happen to have a device with the bootloader on removable media, or some other way to update he bootloader (e.g. via USB gadget). Jul 11 16:18:37 On panda's, it is easy enough to change out the bootloader, either by pulling the SD and overwriting it on a PC (or Mac), or by booting a custom kernel via usbboot. We just don't happen to provide the custom kernel. Jul 11 16:19:19 ogra_, infinity: you guys fiddle with image stuff more than I: would one of you review https://code.launchpad.net/~persia/debian-installer/publish-omap-spl/+merge/67575 ? Jul 11 16:19:59 GrueMaster, Right. My concern is about architecture for consumer devices. Anything we do that presumes a development board needs to be redone later if we expect to have our software delivered retail. Jul 11 16:21:01 I'm less worried there, as we don't release alpha or beta software to retail channels usually. Jul 11 16:21:25 And for the x-loader & u-boot, they are usually tested heavily before release. Jul 11 16:23:43 Besides, most retail products have special partitions for each, usually just big enough to hold one copy with a little room to grow. Jul 11 16:24:35 And as long as we have flash-kernel not overwrite them (and don't install our versions in those images), we ought be safe. Jul 11 16:25:00 Of course, if our reputation grows enough that retail folk *want* our bootloaders, then the picture gets more complicated. Jul 11 16:25:22 heh the mighty script worked Jul 11 16:25:46 LPhas: Cool. Jul 11 16:26:02 hail to that crazy gentoist who, probably waiting hours to compile gnome, wrote it Jul 11 16:26:17 heh Jul 11 16:30:33 now should i try to install ubuntu-desktop? Jul 11 16:30:58 at least i could give you the precise error if it's a dependency problem Jul 11 16:31:28 Sure. Try "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop". Jul 11 16:32:27 `sudo apt-get ubuntu-desktop^` may have slightly different results (and more closely matches what would be in a default desktop install image). Jul 11 16:32:32 http://hpaste.org/48952 and tht;s your error Jul 11 16:32:37 Note the '^', used to distinguish a task from a package. Jul 11 16:35:27 LPhas: The error you are seeing is similar to what I had last friday, but with different packages. This is good, in that it means the buildds are still churning and not failing to build a package. Jul 11 16:35:56 Sucks in that there is no frozen packages to pull from. Jul 11 16:39:03 GrueMaster, is there another metapackage for another desktop manager (not kde please, no kde) maybe xfce Jul 11 16:39:23 Not sure. I think so. Jul 11 16:40:07 KDE is (was) horribly broken on arm last cycle. While I prefer it on x86, it had serious arm specific issues. Jul 11 16:40:22 KDE is horribly broken everywhere :p Jul 11 16:40:29 But I think the kde dev's have been working on those. Jul 11 16:41:32 Depends on point of view. A lot of people were upset with 4.0 and how nothing worked. They don't fully realize that 4.0 was a development release to enable devs to port their 3.5 apps over. Jul 11 16:41:46 yeah, just kidding Jul 11 16:42:10 well, after installing xinit, startx works Jul 11 16:42:15 that's a start Jul 11 16:42:22 Cool. Jul 11 16:42:51 Should be able to get lxde or xfde to install. Jul 11 16:43:03 lwm would be enough Jul 11 16:43:17 now i've to get the closed source video driver work Jul 11 16:43:39 and get a decent resolution Jul 11 16:44:14 What resolution do you have now? Jul 11 16:44:28 LPhas, If you like LXDE, try installing lubuntu-desktop: it's a prepared environment based on LXDE for Ubuntu. Jul 11 16:44:38 That should be up to the frame buffer. Jul 11 16:53:36 switching to pvr-omap4 have i just to install it and hal handles all the stuff or is there some configuration to alter in xorg? Jul 11 16:54:49 LPhas, It ought be all autodetected. Jul 11 16:55:16 that's cool Jul 11 16:57:03 persia: init is running 100% and I cannot figure out why, who can I ping to take a look at it? Jul 11 17:01:40 You could file a bug. Jul 11 17:01:54 mahmoh: have you tried killing it? :) Jul 11 17:01:58 You could try attaching strace to upstart to see if it tells you anything useful. Jul 11 17:02:04 Daviey, That just reboots. Jul 11 17:02:05 HUP Jul 11 17:02:14 persia: incorrect... try killing init. Jul 11 17:02:22 yeah, that's the plan but I'm outsourcing it ;) Jul 11 17:02:47 Daviey: yeah, but I want to know why first ;) Jul 11 17:02:52 Daviey, The behaviour changed? It meant "reboot" for a long time. Jul 11 17:03:38 mmh not sure but it seems to have worked Jul 11 17:03:43 Oh, interesting. It doesn't appear to do anything I can detect (nor log anything anywhere I tend to look) Jul 11 17:03:53 still the resolution is still VGA Jul 11 17:03:56 well, time to go Jul 11 17:04:05 persia: i suspect it's one of the upstart changes. Jul 11 17:04:11 I could just ask it to dump a trace, hmmm Jul 11 17:04:16 thank you guy, you were wonderful, i owe you a beer Jul 11 17:04:28 see you Jul 11 17:04:49 Daviey, I suspect so, as something called "sysvinit" ought behave like a proper System V init :) Jul 11 17:05:09 lol Jul 11 17:05:31 who uses that anyway Jul 11 17:06:27 ogra_, I did, for > 20 years. Jul 11 17:08:10 stop living in the past then :) Jul 11 17:09:00 Yeah, well. I'm learning. Jul 11 17:09:46 persia, your merge looks fine apart from the broken changelog Jul 11 17:10:12 So, when it takes over an hour for bzr to push 3019 bytes to LP, other folk sometimes push their own branches. Jul 11 17:10:26 yeah Jul 11 17:10:33 I'm not willing to wait another hour to fix that: I can send a patch somewhere *OR* someone else can fix the changelog. Jul 11 19:55:24 persia: ping, here's one for you, tried getting a kernel crash but no output to the serial for panda - any ideas why or why not? Jul 11 19:56:03 You had working serial console right before the crash? Jul 11 19:56:30 (also, best to ask questions generally: even if you think I am likely to answer, someone else may answer sooner, and they might also be more well informed) Jul 11 19:58:01 yes, ttyO2 Jul 11 19:58:18 boot info. goes to the console just fine Jul 11 19:59:30 Are you sure you're experiencing a kernel crash? Jul 11 19:59:59 Hardware lockups != Kernel crashes. And the former will, for pretty obvious reasons, give you no output. Jul 11 20:00:10 manually caused it to get the stack (or tried to at least), yes Jul 11 20:00:15 hello, I need to get ubuntu 10.04 preinstalled for beagle Jul 11 20:00:16 Oh. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 11 20:00:49 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 11 20:02:14 2011 Jul 11 20:02:27 fredim, Could you use 10.10 or 11.04? Alternately, would you be able to do an install from a bare rootfs? Jul 11 20:03:08 mahmoh, Hrm. Dunno. Check the kernel config: maybe it isn't set to dump to console when it crashes. Jul 11 20:03:26 persia, xibo client (http://wiki.xibo.org.uk/wiki/Install_Guide_NET_Client) not suported ubuntu >= 10.10 Jul 11 20:03:58 persia: thx Jul 11 20:05:13 fredim, So, I think you're not going to end up with a nice solution. My memory is that there were still isses with the .NET stack for armel in lucid, plus there don't seem to be images for OMAP3 for lucid. Jul 11 20:05:25 CONFIG_CMDLINE="console=ttyO2,115200n8 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw rootwait mem=1G" Jul 11 20:06:26 So, you get a choice between creating your own mess, and hoping it works, potentially with support from xibo, *or* using a newer release which is known to work (11.04 finally had decent .NET support for armel), but that isn't supposed by xibo. Jul 11 20:06:55 mahmoh, Not that config: /proc/config (and no, I don't know which options govern where to dump kcrashdumps) Jul 11 20:08:36 it's the same (?) Jul 11 20:08:59 Err. Sorry. /boot/config Jul 11 20:09:22 Well, that should match /proc/config Jul 11 20:09:29 right, they happen to be identical (haven't upgraded since install) Jul 11 20:09:30 Your entry matches /proc/cmdline Jul 11 20:09:51 all the same Jul 11 20:09:53 persia: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/10.04/release/ seems to disagree with you about there having been "no images" (though none were what you'd call "preinstalled", I imagine) for lucid/omap, but your argument about mono not actually working back then probably stands anyway. :P Jul 11 20:09:54 ttyO2 Jul 11 20:10:12 Sure. I'm just saying that I have never heard of someone seeing a kernel crash dump on serial with an Ubuntu kernel, so I'm unsure if the kernel is configured to deliver those. Jul 11 20:10:41 infinity, Ah, thanks for finding that. I forgot that we didn't drop the "ports" designation for cdimage until maverick. Jul 11 20:10:53 I've seen plenty, but I think it was turned on ... let me go ask Jul 11 20:11:02 fredim, ^^ has desktop and server images for omap. No idea if the .NET support is good enough for xibo. Jul 11 20:11:44 mahmoh, IF you *usually* get crashdumps, but just not in this case, then I'm inclined to agree with infinity that it's probably a fault rather than a crash Jul 11 20:14:43 Thanks, persia! I'll see what I can do Jul 11 20:15:01 fredim, Sorry for my confusion. Thank infinity. Jul 11 20:23:59 I think it has to be turned on so we're ok Jul 11 20:24:52 Ah, good. That behaviour is sane. Jul 11 20:24:58 How does one turn it on and off? Jul 11 20:26:08 "dmesg -n 8" increasing logging which in turn dumps to console, resetting to 4 turns it back off again Jul 11 20:33:52 rsalveti: I'm trying the latest (your dev release from yesterday - "U-Boot 2011.06-dirty (Jul 11 2011 - 01:31:39)" on my old board and when I try usb start I get "scanning bus for devices... The request port(2) is not configured" then the board resets and I get X-Loader again (1.5.0 Jun 28 2011) - any ideas? Jul 11 20:34:15 do I have to update the X-Loader? Jul 11 21:50:32 mahmoh: which x-loader are you using? Jul 11 21:50:44 mahmoh: was it working before with the same board? Jul 11 21:51:16 mahmoh: if you grab current x-loader and u-boot-linaro binaries from the packages, it should work same way as before Jul 11 22:18:22 rsalveti: I'll update it and try it tomorrow (I'm not near the board right now) but the x-loader must change too? if so, then that's probably what did it Jul 11 22:18:58 mahmoh: not if you got it working before Jul 11 22:19:15 rsalveti: that part I don't know, I'll find out tmw though ;) Jul 11 22:32:22 GrueMaster: mahmoh: bug 809015 Jul 11 22:32:22 Launchpad bug 809015 in u-boot-linaro "u-boot lacks unique mac address on Pandaboard while netbooting" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/809015 Jul 11 22:33:10 rsalveti, Thanks for getting that logged and assigned. Does this mean anything in terms of delivery timing expectations? Jul 11 22:36:24 persia: linaro 11.07, end of this month Jul 11 22:36:54 Wonderful! Thank you very much. Jul 11 22:37:50 Is this the super solution for all vendors, or just taking the code from the omap kernel and putting it in u-boot as a stop-gap? Jul 11 22:40:40 persia: for now we want the same solution for omap 4 as we have at the kernel Jul 11 22:41:01 persia: to be a stop-gap and having a fully functional u-boot with tftp + pxe Jul 11 22:41:06 that can be used by the release Jul 11 22:41:14 Heh, yeah, that makes sense. Jul 11 22:41:17 but we should also start the discussion for the generic vendor solution, sure Jul 11 22:43:43 What's the best way to start that discussion? I liked wookey's proposal, but it probably ought be formalised somehow. Jul 11 22:45:03 linaro boot architecture + u-boot m-l I'd say Jul 11 22:45:57 wookey, Would you be up for summarising your proposal there? Would you prefer that I try to paraphrase it to start the discussion? Jul 11 22:50:27 which proposal are we talking about? Jul 11 22:50:45 I'm having a big fght with mercurial on a server right now Jul 11 22:55:21 wookey, The proposal about what bitfields made sense for pregenerated MAC addresses for deficient hardware. Jul 11 22:57:44 ah. I see Jul 11 22:58:41 persia: feel free to paraphrase - It was just an idea (from some dim memory of doing this on LART circa 2003) Jul 11 22:59:24 and DVCS officially does my head in OK? Jul 11 22:59:38 wookey, Heh, OK. I seem to remember something like 4 bytes for vendor, 2 bytes for board, and the rest based on a detectable identifier on the system. Does that sound like a roughly accurate paraphrase? Jul 11 22:59:59 DVCS is best experienced when *someone else* is the server admin :) Jul 11 23:00:24 I was thinking PCI ID for vendor - that's only 2 bytes IIRC Jul 11 23:00:48 or ethernet ID if you prefer Jul 11 23:01:19 * persia reads the media access control address specification Jul 11 23:01:27 and one byte for board ID ought to be enough Jul 11 23:02:46 the whole thing is only 48 bits - 6bytes IIRC Jul 11 23:03:15 Right. Three bytes for "Organisationally Unique Identifier", some of which are reserved for special purposes, and 3 bytes for the NIC. Jul 11 23:05:26 Looking at the spec, I think it's 1 bit for "unicast", 1 bit for "This is a locally administered address", 6 bits for board ID, and 16 bits for vendor ID. Then 24 bits for the specific device. Jul 11 23:05:52 Does that seem wide enough? Do we expect more than 127 deficient boards from the same vendor in medium time? Jul 11 23:06:03 Err, 64 Jul 11 23:19:32 Oh, nifty. The IEEE Registration Authority only delivers 12 bits for vendor ID, including the reserved bits, so 10 bits in practice. Jul 12 00:04:23 rsalveti: thx! ( persia too ) Jul 12 00:04:59 * persia had nothing to do with it Jul 12 00:05:17 persia: you did twist arms during the sprint though ;) Jul 12 00:05:21 gently Jul 12 00:27:31 Is anyone especially attached to Headless/omap3, now that we have server images? Jul 12 00:28:57 Oh, nevermind. I'm reading the wiki page wrong. the answer has apparently been "no" for some time. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 12 02:59:57 2011