**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 05 02:59:57 2011
Sep 05 09:04:57 <soren> Will Ubuntu's ARM stuff work with a Pandaboard? Everyone seems to talk about Beagleboards, and I have no clue how similar they are.
Sep 05 09:09:07 <hrw> it does
Sep 05 09:10:53 <soren> hrw: Excellent, thanks. They seem much beefier than Beagleboards and only a bit more expensive. Is there any particular reason by Beagleboards are still the center of attention (which is the impression I get)?
Sep 05 09:15:44 <hrw> beagleboard is easy to buy
Sep 05 09:16:02 <hrw> and if you want to make own hw then omap3 cpu is also easy to buy
Sep 05 09:16:18 <hrw> so companies are buying beagleboards to experiment and then develop own hw
Sep 05 09:17:10 <soren> Funny you should say that. The reason I ask about Pandaboards is exactly because those actually seem to be available, while Beagleboards seemed to be out-of-stock in most places.
Sep 05 09:17:26 <soren> ...but thanks for clarifying. Your other points make lots of sense.
Sep 05 09:28:27 <hrw> I worked for company which went that route ;)
Sep 05 09:31:47 <soren> Ok :)
Sep 05 09:47:47 <infinity> soren: Beagles aren't the center of attention by any means.
Sep 05 09:48:00 <infinity> soren: Pandas are out target proof-of-concept platform for most of what we do right now.
Sep 05 09:48:17 <infinity> soren: (And the omap4 images are built specifically with Pandaboards in mind)
Sep 05 09:48:45 <infinity> s/out target/our target/
Sep 05 09:50:25 <soren> infinity: I must either not be paying attention or be paying attention to the wrong folks :)
Sep 05 09:50:35 <infinity> soren: To put that in perspective, my desk has Pandas, an i.MX53, an i.MX51, a Toshiba AC100, an LG-P999, but no Beagleboards. :P
Sep 05 09:51:27 <soren> Great.
Sep 05 09:51:37 * soren commences twiddling thumbs until his shiny new Pandaboard arrives
Sep 05 09:51:37 <ogra_> panda ftw !
Sep 05 09:51:58 * ogra_ sees that soren finally made it to the bright side of HW :)
Sep 05 09:52:05 <infinity> soren: We *do* try to make sure the Beagle images continue to function, because there are a TON of them in the community, but our *current* proof-of-concept platforms are the Panda, i.MX53, and the AC100, and the Panda is the only one we fully support on a corporate level as well as community.
Sep 05 09:52:42 <infinity> (Well, for some value of the word "support" that I would refuse to commit to in any capacity more official than an IRC channel)
Sep 05 09:53:20 <infinity> Being a dev board, the word "support" tend to always have "proof-of-concept" floating around it somewhere. ;)
Sep 05 09:53:24 <infinity> s/tend/tends/
Sep 05 09:53:43 * ogra_ prefers "reference" :)
Sep 05 09:54:19 <ogra_> (sounds less unfinished)
Sep 05 09:54:19 <infinity> ogra_: Well, it's sticky.  It's our ref platform for desktop and "mobile", but it's a POC platform for server, since the Panda is pretty effin' obviously not server hardware. ;)
Sep 05 09:54:50 <infinity> It's really not desktop hardare either, to be honest.
Sep 05 09:54:54 <infinity> Mobile is all I'm comfy calling it.
Sep 05 09:54:55 <soren> ogra_: I did play around with an NSLU2 a couple of years ago, but it wore out my patience pretty quickly. I get the impression things have changed ever so slightly since then :)
Sep 05 09:54:57 <ogra_> indeed
Sep 05 09:55:00 <infinity> Or "a giant cell phone".
Sep 05 09:55:30 <infinity> soren: The Panda's quite nice, modulo a couple of kernel bugs that we've finally got a handle on.
Sep 05 09:55:37 <ogra_> nuslu2 makes a good NAS :)
Sep 05 09:55:42 <infinity> soren: And the fact that all your I/O is over USB, which can get frustrating.
Sep 05 09:55:42 <ogra_> -s
Sep 05 09:55:47 <ogra_> err
Sep 05 09:55:52 <ogra_> -u indeed
Sep 05 09:55:53 <infinity> soren: But they're speedy, other than that.
Sep 05 09:56:06 <soren> infinity: Oh, no SD card or anything?
Sep 05 09:56:12 <hrw> infinity: anything omap based is mobile
Sep 05 09:56:16 <soren> infinity: (or is that connected over a USB bus?)
Sep 05 09:56:24 <ogra_> soren, SD is the default boot media
Sep 05 09:56:36 <infinity> soren: The SD reader isn't on USB, but how that would make you happy, I don't know. :P
Sep 05 09:56:45 <infinity> soren: Given that SD isn't exactly "fast".
Sep 05 09:56:47 <ogra_> and in our preinstalled images also the default rootfs media, but of you want to use the board in production you want USB root
Sep 05 09:57:18 <soren> infinity: Err... Right you are.
Sep 05 09:57:56 <infinity> soren: The ethernet, and any external storage you might attempt, will be over USB2, however.  Which isn't AWEFUL, it's just not ideal.
Sep 05 09:58:22 <infinity> soren: Still, they're good little boards, for what they are.  And the price point is nice for a dev kit.
Sep 05 09:58:41 <infinity> (As is the price point for an iMX.53, if you're in a collecting mood).
Sep 05 09:58:54 <ogra_> they surely can cope with the low end atoms speed wise
Sep 05 09:59:12 <infinity> Oh, all the ARM kit on my desk blows my Atom netbook out of the water.
Sep 05 09:59:16 <ogra_> sadly not IO wise
Sep 05 09:59:30 <infinity> I only still use the Atom because it has a sane SATA controller, and, like, a portably form factor. :P
Sep 05 09:59:57 <soren> The ethernet adaptor is hooked up to the USB bus?
Sep 05 09:59:58 <infinity> (The i.MX53 has sane SATA, the AC100 has a good form factor, if only I could combine the two...)
Sep 05 10:00:02 <infinity> soren: Yes.
Sep 05 10:00:06 <ogra_> soren, well ...
Sep 05 10:00:10 <soren> Hm. Ok.
Sep 05 10:00:16 <ogra_> the ethernet adapter *is* the host afaik
Sep 05 10:00:28 <ogra_> its one chip
Sep 05 10:01:17 <infinity> Not that it matters.  USB2 is 480Mbps, the ethernet is only 100Mbps. :P
Sep 05 10:01:40 <ogra_> indeed
Sep 05 10:02:41 <infinity> soren: Wait... I thought you were living in the US these days?
Sep 05 10:02:43 <ogra_> infinity, i have the ac100 datasheet, you could write a PCIe driver and use SATA SSDs
Sep 05 10:02:50 <infinity> soren: What are you doing awake at this ungodly hour?
Sep 05 10:02:53 <soren> infinity: Good grief, no.
Sep 05 10:03:06 <infinity> soren: Oh, you're in .dk?
Sep 05 10:03:18 <soren> infinity: Yup. Not planning on going anywhere either :)
Sep 05 10:03:18 * infinity wonders where he got the US idea...
Sep 05 10:03:41 <soren> infinity: What are *you* doing up at this ungodly hour? Or did you move to a more sensible timezone?
Sep 05 10:03:48 <ogra_> heh
Sep 05 10:03:55 * ogra_ was about to ask the same
Sep 05 10:03:59 <infinity> ogra_: That would be more tempting if I they had PC105 keyboard variants.
Sep 05 10:04:19 <infinity> soren: Long weekend, lots of gin, I dunno.  DON'T JUDGE ME.
Sep 05 10:05:08 <infinity> I don't work tomorrow, I'm travelling on Tuesday, and at Plumbers on Wednesday.
Sep 05 10:05:21 <infinity> I'm not sure that sane sleep patterns matter between now and then.
Sep 05 10:05:23 <soren> You're in UTC-5? Or -6?
Sep 05 10:05:35 <infinity> -6
Sep 05 10:05:55 <soren> Ooh, lunchtime.
Sep 05 10:06:16 <infinity> I don't often eat lunch at 4am.
Sep 05 10:06:17 <infinity> But sure.
Sep 05 10:06:34 <infinity> (Okay, who am I kidding, there's nothing I don't often do at 4am)
Sep 05 10:06:49 * ogra_ considers breakfast ...
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 05 11:28:16 2011
Sep 05 11:56:40 <lilstevie> persia: ping me when you are about
Sep 05 11:56:57 <lilstevie> ogra_: so the ac100 has an unused mini pci-e?
Sep 05 12:26:31 <ogra_> lilstevie, well, depends on the model, all of them have a PCIe slot, but we only have a driver for the USB part of ot atm
Sep 05 12:26:59 <ogra_> all non 3G models dont have a header soldered to the socket though
Sep 05 12:27:18 <lilstevie> sounds like what we have on the transformer
Sep 05 12:27:24 <ogra_> that makes using the slot a bit difficult  on the non 3G ones
Sep 05 12:27:51 <lilstevie> the non 3G tf has the port with no header
Sep 05 12:28:11 <lilstevie> and well same deal with the usb part only having a driver
Sep 05 12:28:35 <lilstevie> trimslice has a driver for its pci-e
Sep 05 12:28:40 <lilstevie> wonder if that would help at all
Sep 05 12:29:08 <ogra_> i doubt its a 1x1 replacement
Sep 05 12:29:40 <ogra_> so even if they have a driver, that would likely only be a base to build on
Sep 05 12:29:48 <lilstevie> true
Sep 05 12:30:03 <ogra_> i think there is also a driver in the old harmony kernels
Sep 05 12:30:13 <lilstevie> one good thing is they are all AP50
Sep 05 12:30:16 <lilstevie> er
Sep 05 12:30:18 <lilstevie> AP20
Sep 05 12:48:03 <sebjan>  /join #linaro
Sep 05 12:48:10 <sebjan> oups
Sep 05 12:52:40 <lilstevie> ogra_: do you have a good test of egl for the ac100?
Sep 05 12:53:18 <ogra_> not atm, i think janimo did some gles testing on ac100
Sep 05 12:53:50 <lilstevie> ogra_: hm, what about that quake3 port?
Sep 05 12:54:11 <ogra_> ask phh, i think he has something like that
Sep 05 12:54:20 <lilstevie> heh ok,
Sep 05 12:54:34 <phh> ok i need to find the url.
Sep 05 12:54:37 <lilstevie> I have been running CrOS kernel and u-boot on the tf
Sep 05 12:54:37 <ogra_> not sure thats usable on a std ubuntu though, i think he adjusted it for the nvidia overlay stuff
Sep 05 12:54:49 <phh> ogra_: no
Sep 05 12:54:53 <ogra_> ah, k
Sep 05 12:55:02 <phh> lilstevie: it's pandora's quake3 port
Sep 05 12:55:24 <phh> ogra_: well ok there is one change, i changed the hardcoded :0 to :1
Sep 05 12:55:28 <lilstevie> which also is compatible with the L4T stuff
Sep 05 12:55:46 <ogra_> heh, well, that should probably work on all tegras
Sep 05 12:55:56 <phh> lilstevie: http://kotelett.no/ac100/phh/Android2.1/Games/openarena.tar
Sep 05 12:55:57 <lilstevie> phh: ah ok, well I have that
Sep 05 12:56:08 <phh> sed -ie s/:1/:0/g on the binary
Sep 05 12:56:10 <lilstevie> awesome
Sep 05 12:56:14 <lilstevie> kk
Sep 05 12:57:45 <lilstevie> phh: did that libflashplayer.so come from an android flash apk?
Sep 05 12:58:01 <phh> lilstevie: no, it comes from Atrix' L4T
Sep 05 12:58:27 <phh> you can't use android's libflashplayer.so
Sep 05 12:58:28 <lilstevie> ah ok
Sep 05 12:58:32 <phh> well not as is
Sep 05 12:58:38 <lilstevie> yeah I found that out :p
Sep 05 12:58:50 <lilstevie> I attempted with flash 10.3 apk
Sep 05 12:58:58 <phh> and making it work on "standard" linux would be REALLY painful
Sep 05 12:59:05 <lilstevie> heh
Sep 05 13:02:18 <lilstevie> I'm also having a strange problem in oneiric, I don't know if it is my fault though
Sep 05 13:02:20 <lilstevie> :p
Sep 05 13:02:28 <lilstevie> default route is not being set when wifi connects
Sep 05 13:03:17 <ogra_> works fine here, its usually the duty of NM
Sep 05 13:03:54 <lilstevie> hm
Sep 05 13:04:05 <ogra_> might be that your driver does not expose the bits and pieces the right way for NM
Sep 05 13:04:18 <lilstevie> it works perfect in natty
Sep 05 13:04:24 <lilstevie> it is the brcmfmac staging driver
Sep 05 13:04:45 <ogra_> well, might be an NM bug, but i definitely dont see it here
Sep 05 13:05:01 <ogra_> so i would guess driver ...
Sep 05 13:05:59 <lilstevie> ok
Sep 05 13:08:27 <lilstevie> hmm ok
Sep 05 13:09:08 <lilstevie> so looking at the network manager logs, i have <warn> Failed to add route Invalid input data or parameter
Sep 05 13:09:31 <lilstevie> but that is for setting ipv6 stuff which I don't use cause I don't have
Sep 05 13:32:31 <lilstevie> ogra_: are builds still taking 70 minutes when you build locally on your ac100?
Sep 05 13:33:35 <ogra_> kernel ?
Sep 05 13:34:03 <ogra_> i havent built locally for quite some time, and before i always had a configured tree, so only changed files were rebuilt
Sep 05 13:34:22 <lilstevie> heh yeah
Sep 05 13:34:41 <lilstevie> building with debuild cleans the tree every time though :/
Sep 05 13:34:55 <ogra_> yeah, i dont do that for tests
Sep 05 13:35:12 <ogra_> and for binary packages i just use the archive :)
Sep 05 13:35:34 <lilstevie> yeah I am building this not as a test though, trying to seed it into an image
Sep 05 13:36:29 <lilstevie> but also making sure that it builds
Sep 05 13:36:44 <lilstevie> so if I send it to persia that it doesn't get rejected again :p
Sep 05 13:37:06 <lilstevie> I'm not lucky enough to have an archive that I can upload it to :p
Sep 05 13:38:01 <ogra_> just get more sponsored packages in ... and then apply for upload rights ;)
Sep 05 13:38:14 <lilstevie> heh, well I don't have one yet
Sep 05 13:40:25 <lilstevie> ogra_: though some massive stuff has happened for us with the transformer
Sep 05 13:40:30 <lilstevie> we got a u-boot port
Sep 05 13:40:53 <ogra_> we have a u-boot port for the ac100 as well
Sep 05 13:41:03 <lilstevie> working well?
Sep 05 13:41:09 <ogra_> its just not usable without any input device support
Sep 05 13:41:26 <lilstevie> ah yeah, similar space then
Sep 05 13:41:29 <ogra_> seems to work if you have soldered a serial port on
Sep 05 13:41:47 <lilstevie> trying to figure out how to to get the stupud EC keyboard to work with it
Sep 05 13:42:30 <lilstevie> keyboard gives us some input, just it is random noise
Sep 05 13:43:15 <lilstevie> but I have interaction through boot.scr :p
Sep 05 18:29:06 <plm> the ubuntu for omap will works in this board too? http://igloocommunity.org/
Sep 05 18:29:32 <plm> of course is omap.. but my question is about the board.. or just pandaboard with omap4 is supported?
Sep 05 18:37:40 <infinity> The Snowball isn't OMAP.
Sep 05 18:38:29 <plm> infinity: ahh sorry.. is just cortex-A9
Sep 05 18:38:36 <infinity> Of course, Ubuntu's userspace will run fine on Snowballs, we just don't ship a kernel or installer for them currently.
Sep 05 18:38:41 <plm> infinity: but.. they say that supported by ubuntu
Sep 05 18:39:00 <plm> infinity: but what ubuntu I get to install in snowball?
Sep 05 18:39:30 <infinity> See above.  We don't have a Snowball installer.
Sep 05 18:39:30 <plm> infinity: because don't have a ubuntu for ARM. just for omap
Sep 05 18:39:38 <plm> humm
Sep 05 18:39:54 <infinity> All of our packaged software will work fine on them.  Just, like I said, no kernel or installer.
Sep 05 18:40:05 <infinity> Linaro's hwpacks should work for Snowball.
Sep 05 18:40:21 <plm> infinity: yes.. option is linaro
Sep 05 18:40:34 <infinity> And you could, for instance, use linaro-image-create with an ubuntu-core tarball as the rootfs and a snowball hwpack, to create a Snowball image.
Sep 05 18:41:52 <plm> humm
Sep 05 18:42:44 <infinity> We're working on trying to make this whole "every board is different, so we can't have a unified installer" business a bit less messy going forward.
Sep 05 18:42:52 <infinity> But building 32 different images isn't the way to go. :P
Sep 05 18:42:59 <plm> infinity: maybe is better use entire linaro.. because has modified kernel and apps to works with board.. like, acell, GPIO, gps and so one
Sep 05 18:43:09 <infinity> It will, ultimately, be about leveraging linaro hwpack type stuff with Ubuntu rootfses, I imagine.
Sep 05 18:43:47 <infinity> Hrm?  Other than the kernel, "linaro" is Ubuntu.  Well, except that they rebuild binaries to test their toolchain.
Sep 05 18:44:02 <infinity> If you want your userspace to be supported sanely, Ubuntu userspace with a linaro kernel is the way to go.
Sep 05 18:44:07 <infinity> Which is what you get with a linaro hwpack.
Sep 05 18:44:13 <infinity> And an ubuntu tarball.
Sep 05 18:45:52 <plm> infinity: so I use just kernel of linaro and the rest is the same ubuntu used in ubuntu for omap?
Sep 05 18:46:06 <infinity> Yes... There is no "Ubuntu for OMAP".
Sep 05 18:46:13 <infinity> Don't confuse installers with the archive.
Sep 05 18:46:18 <plm> ok
Sep 05 18:46:26 <plm> so for arm :-)
Sep 05 18:46:28 <infinity> Our OMAP images are Ubuntu with an OMAP kernel and an installer that knows how to boot the system.
Sep 05 18:46:29 <plm> ubuntu for arm :-)
Sep 05 18:46:56 <plm> but the packages are ported/recompiled for arm arch.. is not the same use in cisc right
Sep 05 18:46:57 <infinity> The ubuntu/arm packages are just generic armv7, they work on anything.
Sep 05 18:47:11 <infinity> Well, anything v7 and up.
Sep 05 18:47:55 <plm> infinity: are there in "cookbook" or a tutorial for to do that.. linaro kernel + ubuntu?
Sep 05 18:48:34 <infinity> linaro-image-tools takes an argument for a rootfs tarball.  You'd just need to point it at an ubuntu-core tarball, and that would be that.
Sep 05 18:48:54 <infinity> I'm sure there's l-i-t documentation somewhere, but other than manpages, I'm not sure where to point you online.
Sep 05 18:49:04 <plm> ok
Sep 05 18:49:13 <plm> infinity: thanks.. that is a good start point :-)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 06 02:59:56 2011