**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 16 02:59:59 2012
Apr 16 03:00:41 <scientes> pnphi, PASTE
Apr 16 03:02:18 <pnphi> checking for pam_start in -lpam... no
Apr 16 03:02:23 <pnphi> configure: error: "PAM libraries not found"
Apr 16 03:02:30 <pnphi> make: *** [debian/stamp-autotools] Error 1
Apr 16 03:02:38 <pnphi> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
Apr 16 03:02:45 <pnphi> E: Failed autobuilding of package
Apr 16 03:03:55 <scientes> pnphi, did you install libpam-dev?
Apr 16 03:04:08 <pnphi> yes
Apr 16 03:04:32 <scientes> pnphi, paste dpkg -L libpam-dev
Apr 16 03:04:35 <pnphi> libpam0g-dev is already the newest version. 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Apr 16 03:04:43 <scientes> pnphi, paste dpkg -L libpam0g-dev
Apr 16 03:04:45 <twb> infinity: I realize that; I just don't remember which bits are still debuild-specific
Apr 16 03:06:31 <pnphi> yes
Apr 16 03:10:03 <pnphi_> so what else ?
Apr 16 03:10:21 <pnphi_> dpkg -L libpam0g-dev
Apr 16 03:10:34 <pnphi_> usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev
Apr 16 03:10:39 <pnphi_> usr usr/share usr/share/doc usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/vpass.c usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/modules usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/modules/pam_secret.c.gz usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/modules/Makefile usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/xsh.c.gz usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/check_user.c usr/share/doc/libpam0g-dev/examples/agents usr/s
Apr 16 03:10:53 <twb> pnphi_: http://paste.debian.net
Apr 16 03:11:26 <pnphi_> what is it ?
Apr 16 03:11:42 <twb> pnphi_: you put your text there, hit "submit" and copy the resulting link here, rather than pasting the original text here
Apr 16 03:11:52 <twb> This is called a "pastebin", it stops us going insane
Apr 16 03:13:00 <pnphi_> ok
Apr 16 03:14:26 <pnphi_> paste.debian.net/163365/
Apr 16 03:17:01 <pnphi_> http://paste.debian.net/163366/
Apr 16 03:17:45 <pnphi_> Log of build and result of "dpkg -L"
Apr 16 03:20:13 <scientes> <pnphi> checking for pam_start in -lpam... no configure: error: "PAM libraries not found" make: *** [debian/stamp-autotools] Error 1 dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
Apr 16 03:20:18 <scientes> specifically -lpam
Apr 16 03:20:29 <scientes> there is no pam.h....doesn't -lpam require pam.h?
Apr 16 03:21:08 <pnphi_> i don/t understand
Apr 16 09:23:51 <janimo`> ogra_, hi, which packages needed to be touched to get unity-3d gles working? nux, compiz+unity?
Apr 16 09:24:22 <janimo`> I'd like to to do a GLES rebuild for x86 and touch the minimum numer of packages locally
Apr 16 09:27:37 <ogra_> nux, unity, compiz and compiz-plugins-main
Apr 16 09:27:38 <ogra_> just grab the packages in precise, they are ready
Apr 16 09:27:38 <ogra_> you will need to change the arch checks etc
Apr 16 09:28:10 <janimo`> ogra_, and all of them need an extra config option passed, none do runtime detection right?
Apr 16 09:28:25 <ogra_> right
Apr 16 09:28:33 <janimo`> ogra_, thanks!
Apr 16 09:28:42 <ogra_> talk to alf_ for a different patch set
Apr 16 09:29:05 <janimo`> ogra_, for now the ones in precise are fine if they actually work with gles
Apr 16 09:29:09 <ogra_> iirc the new one they have in linaro can run with GL and GLES enabled
Apr 16 09:29:25 <ogra_> not sure when you have to select or if its automatic at all though
Apr 16 09:29:31 <janimo`> ogra_, ah they already hae packages for that, I'll ask him then
Apr 16 11:43:57 <LetoThe2nd> infinity: ping
Apr 16 11:45:05 <infinity> LetoThe2nd: pong?
Apr 16 11:45:25 <LetoThe2nd> infinity: ogra told me ask you:
Apr 16 11:45:32 <LetoThe2nd> any ideas why http://paste.pocoo.org/show/582316/ goes bi***ing about some dependency issues concerning linux-libc-dev:i386 and linux-libc-dev in a clean 12.04 chroot, and if you just re-run it, everything is fine? dependency solver problem?
Apr 16 11:46:10 <infinity> LetoThe2nd: Temporary annoyance with a transition.  If you add precise-proposed to your sources.list, it'll be happy.
Apr 16 11:46:33 <infinity> LetoThe2nd: Should be resolved in ~5 hours when gcc-4.6 is built everywhere, and I can promote gcc and eglibc to release.
Apr 16 11:46:39 <LetoThe2nd> infinity: ahkay. nothing urgent, so will probably be sorted out soon?
Apr 16 11:46:46 <LetoThe2nd> i see, thx then.
Apr 16 11:46:59 <ogra_> infinity, compiz-plugins-extra (universe) is FTBFS on all arms with the new GLES compiz, should we leave it that way, or upload a package that has the arm arches dropped for final release ? (i dont think anyone ever cared in a port to GLES for these plugins)
Apr 16 11:47:32 <infinity> ogra_: Ugh, really?  Is it not a simple fix?
Apr 16 11:47:45 <infinity> rsalveti: Hey, wake up and come be helpful.
Apr 16 11:48:10 <ogra_> i dont think linaro ever touched that package (not needed for unity) and afaik all GL->GLES switches need heavy patching
Apr 16 11:48:18 <infinity> ogra_: Dropping the arches isn't necessary, but fixing it would be nice.
Apr 16 11:48:28 <ogra_> (more than just a config option)
Apr 16 11:48:40 <infinity> Needs heavy patching for plugins?  That seems wrong.
Apr 16 11:49:02 <ogra_> well, even in our normal compiz build on arm we have to disable more than half of the plugins
Apr 16 11:49:38 <ogra_> because the functions arent patched yet, i doubt its fixable in time for release and i also doubt linaro will ever care for these plugins
Apr 16 11:49:58 <infinity> Letting it be FTBFS is fine.  As you note, it's universe.
Apr 16 11:50:08 <infinity> We just need to remove the stale binaries.
Apr 16 11:50:14 <ogra_> right, and makes SRUing a possible fix easier
Apr 16 11:50:40 <infinity> And wow, compiz-plugins-main-gles2.patch is extensive.
Apr 16 11:50:41 <ogra_> i still try to catch alf_ or rsalveti to find out if they ever plan to fix that
Apr 16 11:50:47 <ogra_> right
Apr 16 11:50:51 <infinity> What an awful architecture compiz is...
Apr 16 11:50:59 <ogra_> well, compared to the compiz patch its still small :)
Apr 16 11:51:05 <infinity> The GNOME people really got this right with cogl.
Apr 16 11:51:19 <ogra_> well, we should just switch to Qt
Apr 16 11:51:24 <ogra_> unity-2d ftw
Apr 16 11:51:38 <ogra_> but i promised kaleo to not rave about that for a year :)
Apr 16 11:51:52 <infinity> Heh.
Apr 16 11:52:04 <infinity> I prefer 2d anyway.
Apr 16 11:52:12 <infinity> To each their own, though.
Apr 16 11:52:23 <ogra_> yeah, and it shouldnt be to hard to get all the functions in that 3D has
Apr 16 11:52:55 * ogra_ completely reinstalled his ac100 this weekend from ubuntu-core 
Apr 16 11:53:07 <ogra_> using lxde now
Apr 16 11:53:26 <ogra_> so much more free ram !
Apr 16 11:53:56 <ogra_> (needed a reinstall to switch to hf)
Apr 16 11:54:37 <ogra_> using -core as a base it a big pain in the butt though ...
Apr 16 11:54:48 <infinity> Well, yes.
Apr 16 11:54:53 <infinity> It has no installer. :P
Apr 16 11:55:00 <ogra_> yeah
Apr 16 11:55:15 <ogra_> well, and getting the bootloader setup working by hand isnt really fun
Apr 16 11:55:15 <LetoThe2nd> <3 debootstrap
Apr 16 11:55:28 <infinity> I'd suggest feeding core to linaro-image-tools (which works really well), but I assume they have no ac100 target.
Apr 16 11:55:35 <ogra_> LetoThe2nd, -core is essentially debootstrap --minbase
Apr 16 11:55:37 <ogra_> iirc
Apr 16 11:55:49 <ogra_> yeah, ac100 is spethial
Apr 16 11:56:10 <LetoThe2nd> ogra_: ah yea.
Apr 16 11:56:28 <infinity> I don't mind my ac100 with unity-2d, but the RAM starvation does hurt.
Apr 16 11:56:29 <ogra_> the prob with the ac100 is to get it to a point where you can use the wlan for further install ... thats a real PITA starting from core
Apr 16 11:56:37 <infinity> I had some builds failing on it because of that.
Apr 16 11:56:53 <ogra_> right, with lxde my system now uses 75MB with the idling desktop
Apr 16 11:57:02 <infinity> ogra_: Hahaha.  Yeah, my first ac100 install was from core, and involved a whole lot of wgetting and dpkg -i, and head-scratching.
Apr 16 11:57:19 <ogra_> thats half of what unity-2d uses
Apr 16 11:57:40 <infinity> I don't really know what posessed Toshiba to only put 512MB on the thing.
Apr 16 11:57:52 <ogra_> adnroid
Apr 16 11:57:55 <infinity> If they wanted to be competitive with crappy Atom netbooks, they all have 1G.
Apr 16 11:58:05 <fhilly> Hi All
Apr 16 11:58:07 <ogra_> i dont think that was the plan with the ac100
Apr 16 11:58:18 <infinity> Yeah, I suppose it was Android-specific.
Apr 16 11:58:27 <infinity> But even Android breathes more easily with 1G.
Apr 16 11:58:30 <ogra_> its more like a POC of using android on netbooks
Apr 16 11:58:59 <ogra_> well, it is using 2.1 in the original setup ... that doesnt need much ram ... and has not many apps :)
Apr 16 11:59:01 <infinity> It's the one thing I'd change about my phone, if I could (and the only reason I might look for upgrades)
Apr 16 11:59:09 <fhilly> anyone have detailed documentation on the architecture and packages on Ubuntu core rootfs?
Apr 16 11:59:25 <LetoThe2nd> hrhrhrhr
Apr 16 11:59:27 <ogra_> theer should be a manifest file in the download dir
Apr 16 11:59:32 <infinity> Is there?
Apr 16 11:59:33 <ogra_> that has the packagelist
Apr 16 11:59:44 <ogra_> infinity, if there isnt ... it *should* :)
Apr 16 11:59:59 <infinity> Oh look, I do publish the manifest.
Apr 16 12:00:00 <infinity> Go me.
Apr 16 12:00:01 <ogra_> (there is)
Apr 16 12:00:30 <ogra_> fhilly, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/ ...
Apr 16 12:01:17 <ogra_> and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/releases/ for released images
Apr 16 12:01:22 <fhilly> thanks ogra, I assume there is detailed information in there?
Apr 16 12:01:46 <ogra_> fhilly, well, there are the manifests and you can see which arches it is built for
Apr 16 12:02:06 <fhilly> how about rootstock? is it still maintained?
Apr 16 12:02:10 <ogra_> no
Apr 16 12:02:10 <fhilly> thanks ogra
Apr 16 12:02:43 <ogra_> hmm, that remonds me i should probably file a removal bug for the package
Apr 16 12:02:47 <fhilly> ok, if I want to get involved in the building process of the Ubuntu core rootfs, is there any specific root advised?
Apr 16 12:03:12 <ogra_> we use live-build (config files for that are in livecd-rootfs) to roll it
Apr 16 12:03:29 <ogra_> just take a look at the source of these
Apr 16 12:03:41 <infinity> ogra_: I'll happily remove rootstock right now, no need for a bug.
Apr 16 12:03:49 <ogra_> infinity, go for it !
Apr 16 12:03:55 <infinity> ogra_: But I think you should do something about the LP project too.
Apr 16 12:04:04 <ogra_> yeah, i'll kill it
Apr 16 12:04:05 <fhilly> ok thanks a lot
Apr 16 12:04:22 <ogra_> or at least mark it inactive or so
Apr 16 12:04:41 <ogra_> there are some good code snippets in rootstock i wouldnt like to lose
Apr 16 12:05:18 <ogra_> (the fifo to serial interaction with qemu for example to do stuff scripted inside a VM)
Apr 16 12:05:37 <fhilly> well, I have tried ubuntu-core rootfs on x86, however I believe there is "sudo" package missing, as the user will not be able to install anything including "sudo" unless unlock the files system as sudo or su user
Apr 16 12:05:52 <ogra_> fhilly, thats on purpose
Apr 16 12:06:45 <ogra_> ubuntu-core is to *build* images on top (or as an easy to use base for a chroot), not actually to use it as an install base ...
Apr 16 12:07:04 <infinity> sudo would be kinda useless given that there's also no user.
Apr 16 12:07:27 <infinity> rootstock | 0.1.99.4-0ubuntu1 | precise/universe | source, amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
Apr 16 12:07:30 <infinity> rootstock-gtk | 0.1.99.4-0ubuntu1 | precise/universe | all
Apr 16 12:07:34 <LetoThe2nd> infinity: one could make an alias called "medo" that root himself can use.
Apr 16 12:07:34 <infinity> ogra_: ^--- That rootstock?
Apr 16 12:07:35 <ogra_> the typical usecase is for something like embedded IVI systems (car entertainment) where you wont even have a user account  thats accessible by the ednuser
Apr 16 12:07:41 <ogra_> \o/
Apr 16 12:07:52 <ogra_> infinity, yeah
Apr 16 12:08:10 <ogra_> funny, i didnt know we built it for armel/armhf ...
Apr 16 12:08:27 <fhilly> forgive my ignorance but can you tell me why? as in the short explanation of it, it says after you finish you can use pat-get, how can we use apt-get if we don't have sudo? I am new to community stuff and I am trying to get involve so I know I am asking too much
Apr 16 12:08:31 <fhilly> ok I see
Apr 16 12:08:58 <LetoThe2nd> ogra_: haven't you noticed all the people in #pandaboard who asked about starting from -core because the sound of the name suggested a more minimal image to them?
Apr 16 12:09:18 <infinity> And it is a minimal image.
Apr 16 12:09:23 <infinity> It just also has no installer.
Apr 16 12:09:24 <fhilly> lets say I want to build Ubuntu distro for ARM (beagle board) can I do it based on Ubuntu -core rootfs, or there is a better way of doing things?
Apr 16 12:09:25 <ogra_> well, it is
Apr 16 12:09:39 <ogra_> but you need to do a ton of things manually depending on your usecase
Apr 16 12:09:51 <infinity> ogra_: Removed, should be gone in the next publisher run.
Apr 16 12:10:03 <ogra_> fhilly, well, i would just use one of the official beagle images from ubuntu for that
Apr 16 12:10:09 * ogra_ hugs infinity 
Apr 16 12:10:46 <fhilly> is there any detailed documentation about it? guys I see you know everything about it, instead of me asking you, I could just read and get back to you if I have any questions
Apr 16 12:10:48 <ogra_> if you want a minimal install on your beagle, use the server image
Apr 16 12:11:13 <ogra_> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP for instructions etc
Apr 16 12:12:01 <ogra_> if you want even more flexibility, use the netinstall SD card image
Apr 16 12:12:33 <fhilly> orga_ I am trying to get as much information as I can, as I would liek to be part of the community at one point, and contribute. it is not about the BeagleBoard only
Apr 16 12:12:41 <ogra_> (falsely called netboot on that wikipage) ... but nore that you nedd a network connection wired up for thet indeed
Apr 16 12:13:16 <ogra_> well, just hang out in this channel ... thats already a good step to being involved in the community ;)
Apr 16 12:13:56 <LetoThe2nd> fhilly: and, hint: tabcompletion for nicks works in any sane IRC client :)
Apr 16 12:14:25 <fhilly> ok thanks LetoThe2nd
Apr 16 12:14:28 <fhilly> it works
Apr 16 12:15:02 <fhilly> as a starting point for me, where can I start contributing? in terms of anything I could do?
Apr 16 12:15:38 <LetoThe2nd> oO( purge errors out of omappedia/elinux *duckandrun* )
Apr 16 12:15:45 <ogra_> http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ ... you could for example have a look at all packages that only fail on armel/armhf
Apr 16 12:16:10 <ogra_> or weed through launchpad and look for bugs that the ubuntu-arm team is subscribed to
Apr 16 12:16:27 <fhilly> then try to fix it, and report back?
Apr 16 12:16:39 <ogra_> if you have HW you can help testing images right before milestone (or final) releases
Apr 16 12:16:47 <ogra_> right
Apr 16 12:16:58 <fhilly> ok
Apr 16 12:17:22 <fhilly> I have BeagleBoard XM rev: C4 and BeagleBone
Apr 16 12:17:35 <fhilly> any testing procedures?
Apr 16 12:18:11 <janimo`> infinity, !! I started using a caching proxy and it's great! apt-cacher-ng
Apr 16 12:18:18 <janimo`> which year are you welcoming me into?
Apr 16 12:19:43 * ogra_ uses approx 
Apr 16 12:20:43 <janimo`> I just picked this one as at one point in one of the mailing lists it was mentioned it more or less works out of the box
Apr 16 12:21:00 <janimo`> and it indeed does, besides putting a line in apt.conf
Apr 16 12:21:07 <ogra_> approx as well and i find it easier to configure for special cases like ports.u.c
Apr 16 12:21:42 * infinity just has a local Ubuntu and Debian mirror.
Apr 16 12:22:14 <infinity> ... running on an i.MX53
Apr 16 12:22:18 <ogra_> http://www.grawert.net:9999/ubuntu-ports ... :)
Apr 16 12:22:22 <ogra_> thats my laptop
Apr 16 12:22:23 <janimo`> ... uphill
Apr 16 12:22:53 <ogra_> (as long as i dont take it with me indeed (which i really rarely do since i have the ac100))
Apr 16 12:27:05 <fhilly> how can I test the images before release? where can I get them from? can I subscribe to get notifications?
Apr 16 12:34:42 <LetoThe2nd> fhilly_: they're all up on the servers
Apr 16 12:35:43 <LetoThe2nd> fhilly_: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current/ for example
Apr 16 12:36:52 <morphis> LetoThe2nd: you know with which tool the images are build? live-build?
Apr 16 12:37:10 <LetoThe2nd> morphis: no idea.
Apr 16 12:37:21 <morphis> infinity: you know how they are build?
Apr 16 12:38:07 <infinity> Which images?
Apr 16 12:38:18 <infinity> But yes, we use live-build to create live/preinstalled filesystems.
Apr 16 12:39:21 <morphis> infinity: the images you can download from here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current/
Apr 16 12:39:47 <ogra_> fhilly_, for testing you can subscribe to teh images you want to be notified about on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
Apr 16 12:40:25 <infinity> morphis: live-build to create the filesystem, and then some hackery on top of that to make it bootable.
Apr 16 12:40:51 <morphis> infinity: means installing system dependent files (fstab,kernel-modules, ...)
Apr 16 12:41:29 <ogra_> kernel modules come from the kernel package ... fstab and HW sepcific bits usually come from the installer
Apr 16 12:41:30 <infinity> And creating a FAT filesystem, and populating it with a bootloader and kernel, and...
Apr 16 12:41:50 <fhilly_> ogra_, LetoThe2nd thanks
Apr 16 12:41:59 <morphis> infinity: ok
Apr 16 12:46:00 <fhilly_> what do I have to do? just install them? do something specific? run scripts? or just work as normal?
Apr 16 15:32:11 <djszapi> Hey! Is it okay if the daemon part of my project is started automatically by an upstart job put into the /etc/init/ folder with the ubuntu desktop version ? Is there a better interface for that like we had /etc/init/apps on Harmattan ?
Apr 16 15:57:36 <pnphi> i don't know to fix this problem
Apr 16 15:57:38 <pnphi> checking for pam_start in -lpam... no configure: error: "PAM libraries not found" make: *** [debian/stamp-autotools] Error 1 dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
Apr 16 15:58:48 <ogra_> pnphi, just add the right dependency to your packge (or if you dont build a package, make sure to have the right -dev package installed that gives you the pam headers
Apr 16 15:58:49 <ogra_> )
Apr 16 15:59:21 <pnphi> detail ?
Apr 16 15:59:38 <ogra_> djszapi, i dont know /etc/init/apps, but upstrart is surely a proper way to start daemon processes
Apr 16 16:00:06 <ogra_> pnphi, well, its your project, you should know what deps you need to build whatever you build there
Apr 16 16:00:16 <djszapi> ogra_: start on runlevel [23] or [12345] ?
Apr 16 16:00:34 <pnphi> so...i install deps of package
Apr 16 16:00:36 <pnphi> !!!
Apr 16 16:00:54 <ogra_> well, usually runlevels are moot anyway :) all debian and ubuntu systems default to 2
Apr 16 16:01:24 <pnphi> what runlevel ?
Apr 16 16:01:36 <ogra_> (so [2 3<9 should be good)
Apr 16 16:01:38 <ogra_> err
Apr 16 16:01:45 <ogra_> [2 3]
Apr 16 16:02:57 <pnphi> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
Apr 16 16:03:00 <pnphi> what the err ?
Apr 16 16:03:53 <ogra_> read your build log it should say
Apr 16 16:04:36 <djszapi> ogra_: runlevel 5 means for instance "Start the system normally with appropriate display manager. ( with GUI )"
Apr 16 16:04:52 <ogra_> djszapi, it doesnt
Apr 16 16:05:15 <djszapi> ogra_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runlevel#Typical_Linux_runlevels
Apr 16 16:05:18 <ogra_> (nmot sure where you got that line from, but on debian based systems runlevel 2-5 are identical)
Apr 16 16:05:37 <ogra_> 1 is singleuser, 6 is reboot
Apr 16 16:07:02 <ogra_> (and 0 is halt)
Apr 16 16:07:12 <djszapi> read the link.
Apr 16 16:07:15 <pnphi> configure.ac:3: warning: AC_INIT: not a literal: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gdm if [ -e ./Makefile.am ]; then cd . && automake-1.11  ; fi configure.ac:3: warning: AC_INIT: not a literal: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=gdm data/greeter-autostart/Makefile.am:10: `%'-style pattern rules are a GNU make extension automake-1.11: cannot open < gnome-doc-utils.make: No such file or directory make: *** 
Apr 16 16:07:19 <pnphi> oh my god
Apr 16 16:07:29 <djszapi> and I have the desktop version of ubuntu on my pandaboard.
Apr 16 16:07:30 <ogra_> how would reading thge link change anything ?
Apr 16 16:07:47 <djszapi> the linux runlevels are defined in there...
Apr 16 16:08:19 <ogra_> no, they arent ... someone wrote up how the runlevels on his fedora box look like i guess
Apr 16 16:09:38 <ogra_> first of all, runlevels are moot, upstart is event based and only retains the runlevel concept for backwards compatibility ... if you develop something from scratch i would rather tie to an even than to a runlevel ....
Apr 16 16:10:00 <ogra_> and second, i onlycan repeat (for the last time now) runlevels 2-5 are identical on debian based systems)
Apr 16 16:10:52 <djszapi> what would you recommend to me, if my goal is to run my binary during the bootup ?
Apr 16 16:11:07 <ogra_> rsalveti, poke ... seems compiz-plugins-extra FTBFS with the new compiz
Apr 16 16:11:10 <djszapi> that is the trigger event.
Apr 16 16:11:20 <rsalveti> ogra_: oh well, let me check
Apr 16 16:11:41 <ogra_> rsalveti, well, i didnt expect anyone to have a patch or so, just wanted to make sure i'm right
Apr 16 16:11:58 <ogra_> its a universe package etc etc blah blah ...
Apr 16 16:12:39 <rsalveti> plugins-main is the one needed, this extra might not be useful in the end
Apr 16 16:12:40 <ogra_> djszapi, well, what does your daemon do ? i.e. for a network based service i would tie to a network-up event for something related to HW i would tie to a udev event
Apr 16 16:12:42 <djszapi> start on runlevel [23] stop on runlevel [!23]
Apr 16 16:12:51 <djszapi> I had the impression I should do something like that for this goal.
Apr 16 16:13:00 <rsalveti> janimo`: there's a runtime detection for unity for gles as well
Apr 16 16:13:07 <ogra_> rsalveti, yes, thats what i thought, just wanted to look if you guys possibly have a patch
Apr 16 16:13:11 <djszapi> ogra_: listening to the serial port, and act accordingly for the incoming data.
Apr 16 16:13:23 <djszapi> so prolly udev.
Apr 16 16:13:24 <rsalveti> janimo`: /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
Apr 16 16:13:36 <rsalveti> ogra_: I'll check
Apr 16 16:13:43 <ogra_> djszapi, well, either use the runlevel or take a look if there is a udev event when the serial device shows up
Apr 16 16:25:42 <pnphi> dpkg-buildpackage: error: debian/rules build gave error exit status 2
Apr 16 16:25:44 <pnphi> @ @
Apr 16 16:26:32 <ogra_> read the log, find the error, fix it :)
Apr 16 16:38:14 <janimo`> rsalveti, yes, ran that already and works fine, still unity still crashes on logon
Apr 16 16:39:04 <djszapi> ogra_: I am unsure if there is an udev event for that.
Apr 16 16:58:00 <smplman> are there any updates on SGX for omap3?
Apr 16 17:10:17 <ben_> Out of interest.
Apr 16 17:10:31 <ben_> Does the l-cache actually destroy back to back compatibility with prior programs?
Apr 16 17:10:47 <ben_> Because it forces ARM into a modified Harvard Architecture...
Apr 16 17:11:11 <ben_> Take for example the case where you write over and instruction, but the l-cache keeps a prior version and then executes the prior version.
Apr 16 17:11:29 <ogra_> djszapi, so just take [23]
Apr 16 17:11:35 <ben_> You have to force the cache to clear...
Apr 16 17:11:51 <djszapi> ogra_: might fail if udev is not up yet
Apr 16 17:12:02 <djszapi> since connecting to the serial port depends on the udev
Apr 16 17:12:03 <ogra_> udev comes up in initrd
Apr 16 17:12:19 <djszapi> so it is guaranteed my binary would be run later ?
Apr 16 17:12:24 <ogra_> and i think also before the runlevels start
Apr 16 17:13:03 <ogra_> ogra@horus:~$ grep "start on" /etc/init/udev.conf
Apr 16 17:13:03 <ogra_> start on virtual-filesystems
Apr 16 17:13:13 <djszapi> so ?
Apr 16 17:13:15 <ogra_> yup ... udev comes up with /proc, /sys and friends
Apr 16 17:13:31 <ogra_> way before anything cares for runlevels
Apr 16 17:16:17 <djszapi> fine :-)
Apr 16 17:16:43 <djszapi> does the kernel care about the proper respawning ? Say, I open the serial port while launching the daemon, and I would ideally close the serial port while stopping.
Apr 16 17:16:51 <djszapi> what if the daemon dies, and there is a respawning ?
Apr 16 17:17:00 <djszapi> there is a proper serial port close and then open again ?
Apr 16 17:19:52 <ogra_> no, not the kernel ... init does (well upstart in our case)
Apr 16 18:01:27 <djszapi> ogra_: is "stop on runlevel [!23]" fine for stopping ?
Apr 16 19:27:51 <recur> is there an arm equivalent to dmidecode ?
Apr 16 19:31:13 <infinity> recur: That would imply there was such a thing as device tables on ARM.
Apr 16 19:31:22 <recur> Hi infinity
Apr 16 19:31:28 <recur> ah, so I'm completely out of luck then :)
Apr 16 19:31:39 <infinity> Pretty much.
Apr 16 19:31:51 <recur> I wanted to programmatically get my hardware serial, but I've used dmidecode for that in the past.
Apr 16 19:31:57 <recur> thanks for the info!
Apr 17 01:47:02 <electroglue> hey guys can someone point me to a ubuntu how to for beaglebone. Seem I'm not using the right image
Apr 17 01:48:32 <rsalveti> infinity: ogra_: bug 983555
Apr 17 01:48:34 <ubot2> Launchpad bug 983555 in compiz-plugins-extra "compiz-plugins-extra FTBFS on ARM" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/983555
Apr 17 01:48:48 <rsalveti> and attached a debdiff containing the patch that disables the plugins that are gl-only compatible
Apr 17 01:49:17 <electroglue> can someone tell me if http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/release/ubuntu-11.10-preinstalled-server-armel+omap.img.gz is the right image for beaconboard?
Apr 17 01:49:48 <electroglue> I mean beaglebone
Apr 17 01:50:02 <infinity> rsalveti: \o/
Apr 17 01:50:32 <infinity> electroglue: Other than the part where I'd strongly recommend using precise/armhf instead of oneiric/armel, yes.
Apr 17 01:51:12 <electroglue> infinity: armhf performance is much better than the soft one?
Apr 17 01:51:26 * twb perks up - ubuntu has a solid armhf now?
Apr 17 01:51:35 <infinity> Better performance, plus we're dropping support for armel.
Apr 17 01:51:39 <infinity> twb: Hrm?
Apr 17 01:51:45 <infinity> twb: Where have you been for the last 6 months?
Apr 17 01:51:52 <twb> infinity: last time I looked, which was months- asleep
Apr 17 01:52:03 <electroglue> thanks infinity
Apr 17 01:52:17 <twb> wrt ubuntu arm I well and truly have my "user" hat on and my "dev" hat off :P
Apr 17 01:52:38 <infinity> I have a few too many dev hats.
Apr 17 01:53:03 <infinity> rsalveti: So, I'm guessing no Linaro folk got around to taking gnat off markos' plate?
Apr 17 01:55:53 <infinity> rsalveti: Also, uploaded that compiz fix for you.
Apr 17 01:56:04 <rsalveti> infinity: I thought SteveMcIntyre was looking at it, need to ping folks to check
Apr 17 01:56:23 <rsalveti> let me write down an email about that
Apr 17 01:56:32 <rsalveti> infinity: thanks
Apr 17 01:56:36 <infinity> rsalveti: Unless someone magically produces a compiler in the next few days, we're pretty much officially "too late" anyway.
Apr 17 01:56:46 <rsalveti> yeah =\
Apr 17 01:56:46 <infinity> Thankfully, no one actually uses ADA... Right?
Apr 17 01:57:39 <rsalveti> well, there are always some weird folks that might be using it, but afaik not that many at least :-)
Apr 17 01:58:07 <infinity> Well, the pet hobby language of the month seems to be haskell.
Apr 17 01:58:19 <rsalveti> yup
Apr 17 01:58:20 <infinity> I'd still love it if we got ghci working for those folks.
Apr 17 01:58:30 <infinity> But at least ghc works.
Apr 17 02:00:41 <rsalveti> cool, and do we have any issue with other haskell related packages?
Apr 17 02:01:00 <rsalveti> I remember they were always a bit of a pain go get all in sync and building for arm
Apr 17 02:01:05 <rsalveti> issues with builder and such
Apr 17 02:01:25 <infinity> haskell-src-exts was having OOMing issues, that was fixed.
Apr 17 02:01:36 <rsalveti> cool
Apr 17 02:01:42 <infinity> So, it's only ghci that needs love.  And I'm told that porting ghci to a new arch is a lot of Not Fun.
Apr 17 02:01:53 <infinity> Which is why upstream only supports two arches. :/
Apr 17 02:02:11 <rsalveti> oh, ok, so will probably take time then
Apr 17 02:02:28 <infinity> But I know, for instance, that CompSci classes teach interactive ghc usage, etc, so to many people, ghc without ghci is "useless".
Apr 17 02:02:55 <twb> infinity: GHC struggles on "second class" archs because it has to compile to C first, then run a C compiler
Apr 17 02:03:03 <infinity> Something to ponder spending time on for Q anyway.  Maybe.
Apr 17 02:03:11 <twb> infinity: last time I looked upstream GHC team didn't support arm at all, that was all Debian
Apr 17 02:03:46 <twb> infinity: if they want GHCI they can bloody well ssh into the student shell server :-/
Apr 17 02:03:48 <infinity> twb: Yeah, most of the porting effort with GHC has been Debian, and the Debian maintainer's awesome, but he's also a limited resource. :P
Apr 17 02:04:13 <twb> I used to maintain Darcs in Debian, from 2.0 up to about 2.4 or .5
Apr 17 02:06:20 <infinity> Hrm, Uploaders gets filtered out by dpkg-gencontrol, doesn't it?
Apr 17 02:06:32 <infinity> So I can still fix this source without rebuilding the binaries.
Apr 17 02:06:33 <infinity> Shiny.
Apr 17 02:07:14 <scientes> you you guys saying alot is broken with armhf?
Apr 17 02:07:38 <infinity> scientes: Other than gnat, no, it's just as broken (or slightly less) a armel. :P
Apr 17 02:07:52 <infinity> s/a armel/than armel/
Apr 17 02:08:26 <scientes> cause i ran into the opposite with firefox
Apr 17 02:08:37 <scientes> to run on armv5 you have to turn off the JIT or you get segfaults
Apr 17 02:08:52 <twb> Meh, ff is always a problem child
Apr 17 02:09:10 <micahg> scientes: you'll want Debian's build if you're using armv5
Apr 17 02:09:13 <scientes> twb, ever try to build ff?
Apr 17 02:09:19 <twb> Yes
Apr 17 02:09:20 <scientes> micahg, yeah that is what i was using
Apr 17 02:09:31 <twb> Although nowadays it's separate from xulrunner so the heavy lifting happens there
Apr 17 02:09:34 <scientes> micahg, it works except it doesn't turn off the jit by default for some reason
Apr 17 02:09:54 <micahg> twb: AIUI in Debian xulrunner and Firefox are built from the same source now
Apr 17 02:10:01 <twb> oh.
Apr 17 02:10:05 <scientes> the 2GB for libxul linking sure caught be off gaurd
Apr 17 02:10:07 <twb> grumble grumble
Apr 17 02:10:12 <scientes> <micahg> twb: AIUI in Debian xulrunner and Firefox are built from the same source now
Apr 17 02:10:14 <scientes> correct
Apr 17 02:10:19 <scientes> i like that
Apr 17 02:10:21 <twb> scientes: hey man you can't even CHECK OUT emacs from bzr unless you have 800MB of RAM
Apr 17 02:10:26 <twb> Let alone compile it
Apr 17 02:10:35 <scientes> well that a bzr problem
Apr 17 02:10:45 <twb> Yeah I know ;-)
Apr 17 02:10:50 <scientes> which is not exactly something i care about
Apr 17 02:10:56 <infinity> Checking out emacs seems more like a personal problem.
Apr 17 02:11:02 <scientes> haha
Apr 17 02:11:14 <twb> infinity: it's a communicable disease
Apr 17 02:11:23 <infinity> This is right up there with "I find it really difficult to masturbate to rotting corpses".
Apr 17 02:11:29 <scientes> i just dont see why in bzr explicit renaming support is touted as a "feature"
Apr 17 02:11:34 <infinity> The obvious response being "don't do that, then."
Apr 17 02:11:42 <scientes> the content-centric approach of git seems much better
Apr 17 02:12:04 <twb> scientes: it's better enough that Darcs adopted it too
Apr 17 02:12:28 <scientes> > its cancer enough that darcs adopted it too
Apr 17 02:12:31 <scientes> FTFY
Apr 17 02:13:21 <scientes> infinity, so are you guys going to maintain some sensible armel multiarch so that broken packages can still be installed as armel?
Apr 17 02:13:39 <twb> If you analyse the Θ of typical operations in a traditional delta-store backend vs. a content-oriented database, the latter is a clear win for VCS
Apr 17 02:13:59 <infinity> scientes: We do support multiarch, yes.
Apr 17 02:14:46 <scientes> so you will have a armel and armhf repo like debian, just not support the armel for primary arch?
Apr 17 02:15:10 <infinity> We have both for now.  We'll have both for the life of precise.  I can't say if we'll have both forever.
Apr 17 02:15:17 <infinity> (really, probably not)
Apr 17 02:16:07 <scientes> well then they cant accuse your of breaking stuff that doesn't work on armhf, they can install the armel packages, and port it if someone cares
Apr 17 02:16:16 <scientes> sounds perfectly reasonable to me
Apr 17 02:16:46 <twb> I thought not all of the multiarch ducks were lined up yet
Apr 17 02:17:04 <twb> Like, it's in dpkg now, but not in apt yet
Apr 17 02:17:05 <infinity> I have a fine collection of ducks here.
Apr 17 02:17:19 <infinity> It's been supported since oneiric...
Apr 17 02:17:22 <scientes> haha, yeah there is alot of gui lack, and i've seen bugs in aptitude
Apr 17 02:17:28 <infinity> We shipped with multiarch on by default for amd64 in oneiric.
Apr 17 02:17:35 <infinity> aptitude is buggy, yes.
Apr 17 02:17:37 <scientes> but ubuntu has had it for a while unlike debian
Apr 17 02:17:42 <infinity> But who cares, it's aptitude. :P
Apr 17 02:17:53 <scientes> infinity, I use it!
Apr 17 02:17:56 <micahg> aptitude is better in precise, but still needs help
Apr 17 02:18:05 <twb> infinity: oooh, so you did biarch while waiting for Debian to solve the general case?
Apr 17 02:18:10 <scientes> i use apt-get and aptitude
Apr 17 02:18:22 * micahg would like apt-getitude
Apr 17 02:18:24 <scientes> i use to use synaptic, but now heavily dislike it, along with software-center
Apr 17 02:18:27 <infinity> twb:
Apr 17 02:18:31 <infinity> twb: Err, what?
Apr 17 02:18:39 <infinity> twb: No, multiarch in oneiric was multiarch.
Apr 17 02:19:00 <twb> So I could add precise armhf to my existing oneiric/precise armel sources.list, and it should Just Work?
Apr 17 02:19:14 <infinity> Well, to precise/armel, sure.
Apr 17 02:19:14 <scientes> twb, if you have armv7 hardware, yes
Apr 17 02:19:29 <twb> Is there a howto wiki page somewhere?
Apr 17 02:19:35 <infinity> Given that multiarch needs package versions to match, oneiric/precise won't exactly work.
Apr 17 02:19:43 <infinity> And it's not added in sources.list at all.
Apr 17 02:20:12 * scientes uses [arch=amd64] in sources to make downloads faster
Apr 17 02:20:15 <twb> infinity: what I mean is I'm currently using oneiric and cherry-picking things I care about from precise
Apr 17 02:20:20 <infinity> twb: echo "foreign-architecture armhf" > /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch && apt-get update
Apr 17 02:20:25 <infinity> twb: Congrats, you're multiarch.
Apr 17 02:20:26 <scientes> ^^bingo
Apr 17 02:20:30 <twb> Thanks
Apr 17 02:20:41 <scientes> and you can also change the primary arch to armhf
Apr 17 02:21:16 <infinity> twb: I'd recommend having an armhf base, though, and cherry-picking in the other direction if absolutely necessary.
Apr 17 02:21:34 <infinity> (Which, unless you really like ADA, it shouldn't be)
Apr 17 02:21:52 <scientes> armhf can bring like 25% performance improvement
Apr 17 02:21:56 <micahg> infinity: pascal as well
Apr 17 02:21:57 <twb> I'm currently running a random wacky android .36 kernel.  Do I need that to be compiled with specific options for armhf to work, and if so, how do I check those options?
Apr 17 02:22:02 <scientes> and even more on VFP-intensive stuff
Apr 17 02:22:13 <infinity> micahg: I'm still pondering a 0-hour pascal transition.
Apr 17 02:22:19 <twb> scientes: yeah I was going to put Debian armhf on this box but my previous box died and I was in a rush :-(
Apr 17 02:22:30 <scientes> twb, i think it even works with a armel kernel
Apr 17 02:22:31 <infinity> twb: The kernel doesn't give a hoot about VFP.
Apr 17 02:22:40 <twb> That's what I thought, thanks
Apr 17 02:22:43 <infinity> No such thing as an "armel" or "armhf" kernel.
Apr 17 02:22:59 <scientes> but you can compile your kernel with VFP support, but there is very little FP in the kernel
Apr 17 02:23:04 <twb> Hm, I can't see apt-get update pulling down armhf entries yet...
Apr 17 02:23:05 <scientes> the option is there
Apr 17 02:23:09 <scientes> in make nconfig
Apr 17 02:23:16 <twb> http://paste.debian.net/163468/
Apr 17 02:23:36 <twb> I guess because it hasn't got to the precise one yet, and there isn't one for oneiric?
Apr 17 02:24:06 <infinity> There's no armhf in oneiric, no.
Apr 17 02:24:27 <twb> Yep, there's the armhf dl now
Apr 17 02:24:29 <scientes> upgrade!
Apr 17 02:24:35 <twb> SHINY
Apr 17 02:25:03 <twb> The main thing is to avoid bricking it in any way, because this is my main / only workstation
Apr 17 02:25:20 <infinity> You're as bad as ogra...
Apr 17 02:25:41 <twb> So-rry
Apr 17 02:25:51 <infinity> ;)
Apr 17 02:25:57 <twb> If this was a normal server I wouldn't be worried about the userland bricking it because I can deal with that
Apr 17 02:26:07 <scientes> twb, then use even more shiny like me and switch to btrfs :P
Apr 17 02:26:12 <twb> But this stupid thing can't exactly just boot off a USB live key atm :P
Apr 17 02:26:20 <twb> scientes: how do you think my last laptop died
Apr 17 02:27:39 * infinity slams his head on the desk.
Apr 17 02:27:58 <infinity> I need to alias git/bzr/svn all to one wrapper that checks for .git, .svn, bzr and DTRT.
Apr 17 02:27:59 <twb> Not to worry tho, my scratch VM is still btrfs all the way
Apr 17 02:28:16 <twb> infinity: http://cyber.com.au/~twb/.bin/twb-get
Apr 17 02:28:25 <infinity> So sick of running the wrong commands in the wrong projects.
Apr 17 02:28:30 <twb> infinity: or you could use Emacs which does exactly that ;-)
Apr 17 02:28:31 <micahg> infinity: debcheckout/debcommit?
Apr 17 02:28:41 <twb> micahg: mm, that too
Apr 17 02:28:47 <infinity> micahg: In this case, it was "bzr diff" in a subversion checkout.
Apr 17 02:29:11 <infinity> Last night, it was git merge.  Because I can't imagine merging without git.
Apr 17 02:29:16 <infinity> But then I realised I had to.
Apr 17 02:29:18 <infinity> Etc.
Apr 17 02:29:24 <scientes> <infinity> I need to alias git/bzr/svn all to one wrapper that checks for .git, .svn, bzr and DTRT.
Apr 17 02:29:26 <scientes> i feel you
Apr 17 02:29:37 * scientes wishes it was all git
Apr 17 02:29:49 * scientes uses the git mirror of mozilla-central
Apr 17 02:30:21 <infinity> I miss the fix-it-yourself appeal of RCS/CVS.
Apr 17 02:30:25 <infinity> Of course, they also sucked.
Apr 17 02:30:28 <scientes> hahahaha
Apr 17 02:30:28 <infinity> A lot.
Apr 17 02:30:53 <infinity> But, still.  If I wedge a repository for any of the new shiny VCSs, it's over.
Apr 17 02:31:00 <twb> infinity: hey hey I still use RCS - for evil
Apr 17 02:31:31 <twb> http://paste.debian.net/163469/
Apr 17 02:32:27 <twb> gpg + rcs = version-controlled, encrypted netrc files
Apr 17 02:33:53 <twb> http://paste.debian.net/163470/ is the manpage, since that sh code is pretty obtuse
Apr 17 02:37:18 <scientes> why did ubuntu switch to statically linking libxul into firefox?
Apr 17 02:37:30 <scientes> esp when they switched to shipping thunderbird by default
Apr 17 02:37:36 <scientes> seems you could save a few MB of ram for nothing
Apr 17 02:37:59 <infinity> You could, but the pain of keeping the world in sync was awful.
Apr 17 02:38:23 <infinity> And when you're running firefox and thunderbird, "a few MB" is laughably nothing.
Apr 17 02:38:37 <scientes> true....
Apr 17 02:38:39 <infinity> My Firefox is happily dining on 3G of RAM.
Apr 17 02:38:50 <scientes> it use to crash at 2GB all the time
Apr 17 02:39:05 <scientes> no that that is fixed there is no end in sight
Apr 17 02:41:15 * twb sighs
Apr 17 02:42:24 <twb> I know RAM is cheap, but "it's cheaper to add ram than code an O(logn) algorithm instead of an O(n) one" is like fingernails on a blackboard to me
Apr 17 02:42:34 <scientes> well, xml is neither fast nor ram-sensitive by its very nature
Apr 17 02:42:52 <twb> The problem XML solves is not hard, and XML does not solve it well.
Apr 17 02:43:03 <scientes> xml only creates problems
Apr 17 02:43:08 <scientes> yes, it is context-free which is nice
Apr 17 02:43:22 <scientes> but so is json, which is much better
Apr 17 02:43:43 <twb> So are sexprs, a better solution to the problem that existing in *1959*
Apr 17 02:43:45 <scientes> are there any 100% xml-compatible binary representations
Apr 17 02:44:02 <scientes> that we could support in browsers?
Apr 17 02:44:12 <twb> Who cares
Apr 17 02:44:23 <twb> The browsing public doesn't give a shit about anything except stupid shiny web apps
Apr 17 02:44:25 <scientes> it would be easier to parse
Apr 17 02:45:08 <twb> Personally I avoid 90% of the problem by using w3m for everything except the odd broken site
Apr 17 02:45:20 <scientes> thats pretty extreme
Apr 17 02:45:30 <scientes> i mean even noscript and adblockplus gets you pretty far
Apr 17 02:45:46 <twb> adblockplus is a clusterfuck; that code belongs in DNS
Apr 17 02:45:56 <twb> afk food
Apr 17 02:46:06 <scientes> thats what people say, but adblockplus works much better IMHO
Apr 17 02:46:15 <scientes> cause it actually removes the elements from the DOM
Apr 17 02:46:22 <scientes> and they are never rendered at all
Apr 17 02:46:34 <scientes> or requested
Apr 17 02:46:45 <twb> I wouldn't know about that, I was pulling its data files and putting them into squid and polipo
Apr 17 02:46:51 <scientes> and it works better than simple host forging
Apr 17 02:46:54 <twb> I haven't actually used ff since about 1.5
Apr 17 02:47:04 <twb> Since webkit has slightly less bloat
Apr 17 02:47:14 <scientes> well adblockplus is ported to chromium
Apr 17 02:47:36 <scientes> but i use firefox cause its the only browser than you can coaxe into slightly keeping your privacy
Apr 17 02:52:14 <micahg> twb: you should give Firefox 13 a go, much smaller memory footprint
Apr 17 02:52:41 <scientes> and much faster javascript
Apr 17 02:52:45 <scientes> and also video support
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 17 02:59:59 2012