**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 20 02:59:59 2012 Aug 20 04:38:37 janimo: And a followup question to the above, did you want that copied to the archive? Aug 20 06:35:48 ogra_: aptitude merge was done long time ago. during weekend it was review/sponsored/uploaded Aug 20 07:25:33 Hey guys, I'm trying to get video playback with my pandaboard ES, I heard this was a better platform then the old pandaboards but every OS I install on it has serious performance issues. Aug 20 07:25:45 Is there a way to squeak better performance out of this? I've tried Linaro Ubuntu and Android, I'm switching to a usb 2.0 boot harddrive Aug 20 07:25:48 but it looks like the software not the hardware is rendering 3d, I know people got smooth playback with the old pandaboard and linaro, is there a way to get the graphics drivers from TI or anything like that? Aug 20 10:43:27 rsalveti: first great screenshots of 3d working nice on the pandaboard.. Aug 20 10:43:42 encouragins to see Aug 20 10:44:50 well i tested to boot up my own pandaboard and installed the latest drivers offered by "jokey" .. something installed but it did not get connected all the way to silicon http://paste.ubuntu.com/1156993/ Aug 20 10:45:06 running quantal Aug 20 10:45:31 forget quantal until the new drivers are uploaded Aug 20 10:47:56 ogra_: ok well cant help it.. i have to try it before its stable.. will try the 3.5 kernel and use the precise drivers in hope to see http://lockerz.com/s/236484513 Aug 20 10:47:59 :) Aug 20 10:48:22 xranby: where? Aug 20 10:49:00 RoyK: (17:17:33) robclark: this omap ppa for precise plus this kernel works fine w/ unity3d: http://people.freedesktop.org/~robclark/try9 Aug 20 10:49:08 if only nvidia would provide us with a nice working driver :( Aug 20 10:49:29 xranby, i'd rather use rsalveti's packageds than the precise ones ;) Aug 20 10:49:38 i guess there is a PPA somewhere Aug 20 10:49:38 xranby: thanks - gotta try that when I get back home :) Aug 20 10:50:08 ogra_: i hope so. i was hoping rsalveti would say.. hey use my secret ppa at location X) Aug 20 10:51:06 xranby, well, patience will help too, it has to be uploaded this week (feature freeze coming) Aug 20 10:52:05 RoyK: good luck Aug 20 10:53:56 thanks Aug 20 10:54:28 xranby: should this work with precise, or should I upgrade to quantal? Aug 20 10:54:45 RoyK: honesly i do not know Aug 20 10:54:51 i have not tested it yet Aug 20 10:54:58 the shots are from the quantal development drivers ... they arent uploaded yet Aug 20 10:55:13 but will ... during the week Aug 20 10:56:17 RoyK: to get the nice result shown in rsalveti screen shots ogra_'s advice is the best.. be patient and wait for the upload Aug 20 10:56:35 to get something working today with a high chance of breaking things use the link i posted Aug 20 10:57:03 :) Aug 20 11:05:05 ogra_: the "unaccelerated" experience on the omap4 is amazinly snappy in quantal.. running the lubuntu desktop and it flies Aug 20 11:05:41 great progress Aug 20 11:05:43 yeah, same on the ac100 :) Aug 20 11:06:13 the accelerated expirience with unity running isnt so great i heard though Aug 20 11:06:17 if i only can get away from my opengl es addiction ;) Aug 20 11:06:33 i.e. massively limits your video playback framerate to have compositing on Aug 20 11:07:14 ogra_: how is it imagined to get solved? Aug 20 11:07:34 can unity get re-engineered to fix this limitation? Aug 20 11:08:20 for example is someone working on temporally disable composition if openmax is running Aug 20 11:08:22 ? Aug 20 11:08:42 no idea, i was even surprised by the llvmpipe as default switch ... Aug 20 11:08:50 i guess you have to ask the unity guys Aug 20 11:09:14 lovely, have you send them a pandaboard? Aug 20 11:09:20 to test their work on? Aug 20 11:09:52 i think they have one ... but that wont help ... upstream llvmpipe isnt ready on arm afaik Aug 20 11:10:04 i fear panda will have to use swrast (and fail with that) Aug 20 11:12:35 i will install the package and check, by running some 3d fluff to see if it is working on the panda Aug 20 11:12:53 its only a libGL replacement after all Aug 20 11:12:59 the grand plan is to ship pvr by default though Aug 20 11:13:08 this is plan B Aug 20 11:13:12 if all else fail Aug 20 11:13:25 of course getting the accelerated bits in would be great Aug 20 11:13:29 well, plan B wuold be more intresting on all the other arm images we have Aug 20 11:13:37 hello there Aug 20 11:13:43 plan A has to happen in any case for the panda Aug 20 11:13:45 anyone own beagleboard ? Aug 20 11:13:49 the nice thing about llvm-pipe is ofcourse that it supports all desktop GL applications Aug 20 11:14:04 but only runs on SSE currently Aug 20 11:14:08 i imagine that the accelerated bits only supports opengl es Aug 20 11:40:55 ogra_: you are correct as allways. its only using the traditional old and slow mesa sw rasterizer Aug 20 11:41:13 well, i was just guessing :) Aug 20 11:42:55 nice guessed then! Aug 20 12:18:03 infinity, I wanted to make 100% sure it builds in the archives not only on my machine. And then I'd want it copied sure, but no meta yet so others can test too Aug 20 12:18:45 infinity, this is a code-drop from Marvell, my attempt at forward porting the 3.2 patches did resulted in a kernel that hangs while calling init Aug 20 12:18:52 did result Aug 20 13:05:15 xranby: hopefully we should have the packages at a ppa today Aug 20 13:05:41 there's a fix at the kernel package that needs to land as well, bug 1038846 Aug 20 13:05:42 Launchpad bug 1038846 in linux-ti-omap4 "linux-headers pkg for omap4 doesn't include omap_drv/drm headers" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1038846 Aug 20 13:05:43 ppisati: ^ Aug 20 13:15:10 rsalveti: i fwded to the ukml, but it's in master next Aug 20 13:15:22 rsalveti: i'll cut a new relase with what we have now + that fix Aug 20 13:18:21 great, already got applied at master-next Aug 20 13:18:29 ppisati: awesome, thanks! Aug 20 13:18:38 just because without it we can't install the pvr-omap4 package Aug 20 13:19:25 rsalveti: ok, thumbs up, thank you for processing all the bits and packages through the grinder Aug 20 13:20:06 rsalveti: have the drivers been tested on both old and new pandaboards? Aug 20 13:20:38 i got a rev A here (assuming its the old panda) Aug 20 13:20:45 A1 Aug 20 13:21:23 xranby: yup Aug 20 13:25:15 rsalveti: does pvr-omap4 need anything else to work properly with 3.5? Aug 20 13:25:42 ppisati: not at this point, it worked just fine with 3.5 Aug 20 13:25:57 unfortunately I got 2 freezes while testing, similar to what I was having with 3.4 Aug 20 13:26:00 not sgx specific Aug 20 13:26:16 didn't get any logs at the serial, just stopped completely, without blinking leds Aug 20 13:26:24 that's with a panda es Aug 20 13:43:24 plymouth is rather married into the bootup process, right? I tried to remove it but mountall depends on it. Does it do anything except provide splash? What should I do if I don't want any of that at all? Aug 20 13:44:59 sveinse: it prints *all* of the login text as well.... Aug 20 13:45:05 s/login/boot/ Aug 20 13:46:28 xnox: ok.. I added console= to my serial port and I think I got all of the boot output (fsck and such). It's plymouth that does that? Aug 20 13:47:04 sveinse: i am not sure. but my experience was that, that is the case Aug 20 13:47:58 Point is: I have plymouth installed, but no themes. Now initramfs does not contain plymouth binaries, just some init-top and init-bottom scripts which complain upon boot. Aug 20 13:52:15 I'm tempted to not use plymouth at all since I have all the output I want, yet for some reason mountall depends on plymouth, so some connection/requirement must there be Aug 20 13:55:06 ah, it's a requirement to mountall because mountall pass progress to the plymouth daemon Aug 20 13:56:39 sveinse, imagine libplymouth as a poor mans dbus :) Aug 20 13:57:12 yep. Aug 20 13:57:30 it lives between the UI and the backend, so mountall is heavily tied into it for any kind of user communication Aug 20 13:57:32 ogra_: i'd rather imagine btrfs giving me a pony Aug 20 13:57:38 haha Aug 20 13:57:57 lol Aug 20 13:58:16 It seems its not in ubuntu's use cases to not have any plymouth themes installed, since its complains without one Aug 20 13:59:20 Having no plymouth theme installed, will result in having no plymouth[d] installed in initramfs, yet they are referred to by the init-top and init-bottom plymouth scripts :P Aug 20 14:00:28 the init-top and init-bottom scripts are parts of the plymouth package, they are gone if the package is gone Aug 20 14:00:50 and plymouth should force a rebuild of the initrd from its postinst Aug 20 14:01:41 no, you can't rid yourself of plymouth. Its a dep of mountall. So you have it either way. However if you don't have any themes installed, no ply bin end up in the initramfs, but their init-* script does Aug 20 14:02:30 in all cases, plymouth does not bother me. point is. Is there a theme I should use if I want text/serial output only. No hazzle dazzle. Aug 20 14:03:54 (I'm optimizing a product for faster bootups...) Aug 20 14:04:32 I wish I could get it to display the splash :p Aug 20 14:05:13 I have to press the down or up arrow for it to appear :/ Aug 20 14:07:00 Well, we did write a simple plymouth theme showing a simple splash (no progress & stuff). and it works. However, plymouth assumes that the text console and the splash device are the same, so for embedded products where you want everything on the serial port, while keeping the screen with a splash, it not easy with plymouth AFAIK. Aug 20 14:48:31 Are there any tools for recording the timestamps during boot. I want to see what the system is spending time on while booting. Aug 20 14:49:39 sveinse, dmesg shows time since boot Aug 20 14:50:06 or well time since kernel start Aug 20 14:50:34 and there is indeed bootchart ... Aug 20 14:50:38 sveinse: you may want to look at bootchart Aug 20 14:50:40 lilstevie: Well, dmesg only shows kernel events. Theres a 20 second delay between the last kernel message during boot and our application start Aug 20 14:50:46 oh well, ogra_ was faster ;) Aug 20 14:50:52 heh Aug 20 14:51:08 bootchart, thanks both of you. I'll look at it Aug 20 15:11:26 I'm asking to make sure: Is there any way to get plymouth to log to a serial console, while displaying a splash on the fb? Aug 20 15:19:09 no Aug 20 15:19:29 plymouth will not allow a splash as soon as console= is set Aug 20 15:19:38 (silly upstream decision) Aug 20 15:19:46 * xnox wants dual screen support for plymouth: splash on the left, console messages on the right. Aug 20 15:20:07 * ogra_ wants two splashes ... Aug 20 15:20:16 i got a triple screen setup ;) Aug 20 15:20:18 janimo: Is this Marvell code drop audited and all the non-free stuff removed? I spent a lot of time license checking and removing junk from the old source. Aug 20 15:20:36 infinity, they say so, and that the code can be published Aug 20 15:20:45 heh Aug 20 15:20:52 I pushed it onto zinc anyway Aug 20 15:20:58 I want a splash screen on one screen, logs in the middle, and a youtube video of cats on the 3rd one Aug 20 15:21:22 janimo: Their last code drop could be published, that didn't make it Free (and it wasn't). Aug 20 15:21:48 what's worst that can happen? Aug 20 15:22:23 janimo: The worst that happens is that we lie to people and give them things they can't modify or redistribute legally. :P Aug 20 15:22:41 well, if someone notices we can fix whatever is wrong :) Aug 20 15:23:01 Aug 20 17:12:35 ubuntu acpid: 1 rule loaded Aug 20 15:23:01 Aug 20 17:12:35 ubuntu acpid: waiting for events: event logging is off Aug 20 15:23:07 * ogra_ glares at his beagleboard Aug 20 15:23:09 it's not like we reveal secrets or offer non-free but irreplacable code Aug 20 15:23:17 small mistakes at worst imo :) Aug 20 15:23:23 * sveinse wants splash on screen with console on serial port Aug 20 15:23:26 ogra_, wait... console= means no splash? so then on tegra we are screwed Aug 20 15:23:36 lilstevie, my saying :) Aug 20 15:23:39 with that stupid bug where it dies unless we set it Aug 20 15:23:39 since months Aug 20 15:23:48 :/ Aug 20 15:23:52 not much we can do though Aug 20 15:24:06 lilstevie, nvidia is supposed to be working on that bug already Aug 20 15:24:20 janimo, yeah yeah, we'll see :p Aug 20 15:24:44 lilstevie: Yes it's like that. You get console though since getty runs. But you lose console output between kernel handing off to initramfs and until getty is run if you enable splash Aug 20 15:25:32 janimo: Hrm? No, no secrets, but there's plenty of "all rights reversed" code in their code drops with no license. Even if they hand-wave and tell us we can distribute it (which their engineering department really can't tell us anyway), third parties definitely can't. Aug 20 15:26:23 janimo: This isn't the sort of thing we should do the "well, we'll just ship it and wait for them to whine" thing with. We put serious effort into cleansing that tree for 3.2, for good reason. Aug 20 15:26:35 afaik the talks were among sales/whatever departments too or at least not just engineers Aug 20 15:27:07 infinity, I had no idea 3.2 was assumed clean by them but cleansing was needed Aug 20 15:27:50 With Marvel, never assume anything. Aug 20 15:32:36 wait Aug 20 15:32:37 holy Aug 20 15:32:54 apparently that bug is fixed for tegra3 already :p Aug 20 15:37:25 Tegra 2 does not have NEON, right. So no armhf? What about newer tegras? Aug 20 15:37:42 ?? Aug 20 15:37:51 why would there be no armhf ? Aug 20 15:38:34 no float ops implemented in HW... I might well be misinformed. I though NEON and FPU was part of the same deal Aug 20 15:39:12 no Aug 20 15:40:32 it is a pain to not have NEON but NEON and FPU are not mutually exclusive Aug 20 15:41:42 right. And FPU is generally implemented across the >=ARMv7 devices today? Aug 20 15:43:32 is a requirement of armv7 AFAIK Aug 20 15:44:14 aha (while reading http://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort/). ARM implements a VFP which is the FPU. And it poses an extra set of registers -- which is the same reason the EABI is different Aug 20 15:45:20 But from what I understand, the kernel is agnostic to armel/armhf, right? The VFP is never used for passing arguments to/from kernel? Aug 20 15:45:35 sveinse: Right. Aug 20 15:46:16 excellent. That might help a lot... You see. If mgmt decides they want armhf in the next release, I need to figure out how to dist-upgrade armel -> armhf... Aug 20 15:46:51 LOL ! Aug 20 15:46:55 now you made my day Aug 20 15:48:03 (It's always interesting to be the center point for laughing. Especially when you don't know why....) Aug 20 15:48:07 dist-upgrade does not sound fun at all Aug 20 15:48:26 like potentially broken.... everywhere Aug 20 15:48:43 well, currently the distro doesnt support that path withoutu tinkering a lot on the low level Aug 20 15:49:37 I think I'll have to construct some chroot jail with armel and let it stage the upgrade the main system Aug 20 15:49:40 It's not something we support, period. It's something you can make work in a very controlled environment, but you're not going to upgrading customer machines blind. Aug 20 15:49:55 No, I dont expect you to either Aug 20 15:50:09 speaking of crossing armel/armhf, still haven't found a reason worth setting up multiarch Aug 20 15:50:10 :p Aug 20 15:50:34 Let me put it differently. It's not something YOU will be able to support any more than we can. Unless your machines are all a specific image with no extra packages. And if they are, you can just re-image them armhf. :P Aug 20 15:50:39 ok hud is starting to annoy me :/ Aug 20 15:50:50 ogra_, I need some assistance, it would be nice to get linaro-boot-utils pushed to quantal before ff Aug 20 15:50:56 lilstevie, shout at it ... that surely helps *g* Aug 20 15:51:19 ooh, it has voice recognition already? Aug 20 15:51:21 jcrigby, where is it ? Aug 20 15:51:31 it is only in a ppa now, Aug 20 15:51:36 jocarter, only shout recognition yet :) Aug 20 15:51:39 https://code.launchpad.net/~jcrigby/+recipe/linaro-boot-utils-daily Aug 20 15:51:39 is it possible to multiarch armel/armhf? I though the nature of the incompatabilities between the EABIs made them unable to multiarch Aug 20 15:51:39 ogra_, I have had several cases where I am working away nicely in my terminal, accidentally trigger hud, and all of a sudden my sudo password has ended up in xchat :( Aug 20 15:51:42 ogra_: heh Aug 20 15:51:52 sveinse: We can multiarch them, yes. Aug 20 15:52:00 sveinse: We put a lot of effort into that. Aug 20 15:52:14 lilstevie, do you use focus-follows-mouse ? Aug 20 15:52:16 sveinse: (And ABI incompatibility is the use-case for multiarch... i386 and amd64 are incompatible ABIs too...) Aug 20 15:52:31 infinity: right Aug 20 15:52:48 ogra_, that shouldn't make a difference right? I run my terminal windows at full screen Aug 20 15:53:07 lilstevie, it makes a massive difference, unity isnt ready for FFM Aug 20 15:53:34 lilstevie: Just re-bind the HUD hotkey to something you never press (mine is "pause"), and your life will be much better. Aug 20 15:53:50 infinity: Am I understanding that armel->armhf is not possible at all? (If not, I can save me the attempt) Aug 20 15:54:35 sveinse: Multiarch cross-grading isn't something that's "possible" on more than a macihne-by-machine with insane amounts of effort and breakage basis. Aug 20 15:54:56 sveinse: So, for someone who's wanting to attempt it to more than "their personal laptop that they're happy breaking", I'd call it impossible, yes. Aug 20 15:55:06 ogra_, in any case I haven't changed the setting from default, I was considering it though, but if it will make it worse :p Aug 20 15:55:14 jcrigby, so are the source packages on https://code.launchpad.net/~linaro-maintainers/+archive/kernel/+packages in a state you want to have them released in ? Aug 20 15:55:52 infinity, sounds like a good idea, while I like the idea of hud, I still haven't really used it Aug 20 15:56:26 jcrigby, signing and uploading them only takes me a few :) Aug 20 15:57:34 lilstevie: If I still did a lot of graphic arts things, I could see it maybe being useful. Or if I did office productivity type things. But if you don't use complex applications with thousands of menu entries, the novelty wears off pretty quickly. And the bugs become the only part that you notice. :P Aug 20 15:58:18 infinity, I live in the command line Aug 20 15:58:20 so yeah Aug 20 15:58:23 not really much use Aug 20 15:59:11 * ogra_ really doesnt get that acpid thing in his beagle boot Aug 20 15:59:41 i mean, i dont mind that we have it installed, by why the heck does it start ?! Aug 20 16:00:03 ogra_, I believe so except for the funky version string Aug 20 16:01:08 jcrigby, yeah, looks a bit like a math exercise :) Aug 20 16:01:29 anyway, I'm turning in for the night Aug 20 16:01:32 later Aug 20 16:01:42 so pick a nicer version, put the source package somewhere and i'll upload Aug 20 16:02:19 ogra_, ok thanks Aug 20 16:10:30 infinity: Thanks. You'll have to excuse me for challenging armel->armhf upgrade feasability. I'm trying to measure the degree of "impossibleness". Not trivial is not the same as impossible. (A couple of years ago we were told cross building of armel deb package was impossible, but that turned out to be just non-trivial, but implementable.) Aug 20 16:11:57 sveinse: Oh, yeah, no. This is way beyond "not trivial" for anything other than a single system. And the single system is something that would need excessive babysitting. Aug 20 16:12:29 you could write a babysitter ;) Aug 20 16:13:17 Well, in our case, if you babysit one, then you've handled all. All installed systems are *exactly* the same in respect of package composition Aug 20 16:14:02 ogra_: You really couldn't. Aug 20 16:14:08 ogra_: That's why it's not feasible. Aug 20 16:14:25 sveinse: If they're identical, re-image. Seriously. You'll hate yourself less. Aug 20 16:14:48 sveinse: Heck, that's a truism for dist-upgrading when not cross-grading too. :P Aug 20 16:15:34 infinity: This is an embedded device with no alternative boot. The only bootsource available is the sd-card (which we don't want customers to fiddle with). That's why I trying to hot-upgrade a running system Aug 20 16:17:49 For the fun of it: Here's how I hoped it would work: 1) deboostrap armel into a dir 2) chroot into jail. Bind mount system drive. Run debootstrap armhf over armel installation (which "resets" the list of installed packages). 3) reboot 4) finish install and install the set of packages needed on the system Aug 20 16:22:35 I have to leave. _ogra, infinity. Have a nice evening (or whatever TZ you're in) Aug 20 16:23:16 samei guess :) Aug 20 16:51:07 One way to handle the switch from armel to armhf is through a two-step reboot. I'd have to diagram it out, then script it, but it is possible. For an embedded system, it is a bit tricky, but that is what test environments are for. Aug 20 16:51:33 And it also depends on how the embedded system is layed out to begin with. Aug 20 16:53:04 Actually, I wonder if it could be done with netboot d-i & preseed? Aug 20 16:53:33 * GrueMaster wishes he had free time to experiment with this idea. Aug 20 17:25:30 ogra_, http://people.canonical.com/~jcrigby/linaro-boot-utils/ Aug 20 17:41:03 bah, sigh Aug 20 17:41:21 since when does dpkg-buildpackage fail hard on a missing ubuntu maintainer address Aug 20 17:41:25 how silly Aug 20 17:49:11 ogra_: Since forever. Aug 20 17:49:18 ogra_: But it depends on if you have DEB_EMAIL set. Aug 20 17:49:23 ogra_: Which is a weird heuristic. Aug 20 17:49:26 infinity, no, im sure it never killed the build Aug 20 17:49:39 ogra_: It's done this for ages. Aug 20 17:49:47 it was a warning Aug 20 17:49:52 (And I actually quite appreciate it) Aug 20 17:49:59 * ogra_ doesnt Aug 20 17:50:21 ogra_: No, really, it's hard failed like this for quite a long time. Unless you've been building all your source packages on an ancient release for the last few years. Aug 20 17:50:22 i like to maintain the packages i'm upstream for in ubuntu ... Aug 20 17:50:53 now, i'm in the lucky position to have an ubuntu.com address ... others arent Aug 20 17:50:55 I maintain my Debian packages in Ubuntu too. That's not a problem, unless you try to upload something with an ubuntu revision but no ubuntu maintainer. Aug 20 17:51:21 well, it breaks for sponsored linaro uploads Aug 20 17:51:36 It doesn't "break" at all, it's working as intended. Aug 20 17:52:06 Just run update-maintainer(1) and be done with it. Aug 20 17:52:32 jcrigby, adding a watch file would be nice, the standards version is one behind and apparently you need to run update-maintainer as infinity suggests above Aug 20 17:53:07 ogra_, just catching up, my xchat lost connection just after I sent link Aug 20 17:55:08 yeap, saw that Aug 20 18:33:01 ogra_, I fixed the standards version and maintainer. I did not add a watch file because after searching I'm still unsure how to do that part. I pushed the result to http://people.canonical.com/~jcrigby/linaro-boot-utils/ **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 21 02:59:58 2012