**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 23 03:00:00 2012 Aug 23 07:36:39 ogra_: you changed Bootloader-sets-root: to yes even if the meaning is currently wrong! :-) Aug 23 07:36:53 that's a different behavior from debian Aug 23 07:38:03 but will at least now work after the installer finishes? Aug 23 08:00:00 rsalveti, i havent tested it on actual images yet, but beyond that it should work Aug 23 08:01:31 (as documented in the changelog) Aug 23 14:40:33 * ogra_ hugs rsalveti Aug 23 14:40:34 yay Aug 23 14:41:39 ogra_: there's only one new package that needs to land now, the libdri2 Aug 23 14:41:46 which is what I'm testing at this moment Aug 23 14:41:52 then we'll be ready to go with pvr-omap4 Aug 23 14:42:03 kernel and xorg related packages all in already Aug 23 14:42:50 yay Aug 23 14:43:19 * ogra_ wonders if omap should be in the xserver-xorg-video-all deps on arm Aug 23 14:45:20 I belive so, at least we need to make sure we're installing it by default Aug 23 15:06:14 rsalveti: libdri2-omap in the archives for 12.10? Aug 23 15:06:58 ndec: that's what I'm doing now Aug 23 15:07:04 nice1 Aug 23 15:07:04 it's needed by the sgx driver Aug 23 15:07:06 nice! Aug 23 15:07:27 are you taking the Xserver patches for dri2video as well? sounds more risky ;-) Aug 23 15:08:48 ndec: not at this point yet Aug 23 15:09:01 want to first make sure it works without any new fancy features :-) Aug 23 15:09:57 how about the clutter/totem 3.4? is there any ARM SoC which has support for that? Aug 23 15:16:10 ndec: don't think so Aug 23 15:17:36 rsalveti: also i wanted to ask you about LEB. so ubuntu is no longer doing pre-installed. how does it impat linaro LEB? Aug 23 15:17:51 in fact i don't recall exactly how LEB are generated. Aug 23 15:18:58 ndec: doesn't change much, we're still doing pre-installed images Aug 23 15:19:02 as well with hwpack + rootfs Aug 23 15:19:13 even for quantal Aug 23 15:20:05 rsalveti: ok. is there a wiki that explains your image generation? Aug 23 15:20:22 we need to change our image generation for TI releases... since we were using pre-installed images ;-) Aug 23 15:20:52 ndec: sure, 1 sec Aug 23 15:21:17 ogra_: can you grab powertop 2.1 from http://people.linaro.org/~hrw/debian/ and sponsor upload? :D Aug 23 15:21:19 ndec: http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-build-service.git;a=summary Aug 23 15:21:29 http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-build-service.git;a=tree Aug 23 15:21:43 if you see, this is how we're maintaining our build jobs Aug 23 15:22:00 the only thing done by jenkins is a cd to the right folder and ./configure && make Aug 23 15:22:22 rsalveti: and it works outside of LP, e.g. I should be able to run this script? Aug 23 15:22:22 that runs live-build and generate the tarball in the end Aug 23 15:22:27 ndec: yup Aug 23 15:22:45 hmm... why did I not look into that before... Aug 23 15:24:03 bye Aug 23 15:24:22 ndec: the logs from the job handling the quantal images: https://ci.linaro.org/jenkins/view/Ubuntu%20Build%20Service/job/quantal-armhf-ubuntu-desktop/65/consoleFull Aug 23 15:25:03 if you want to create a pure ubuntu image (without the linaro sauce), it's quite easy as well Aug 23 15:25:26 just need some minor changes, like by not installing linaro-ubuntu-desktop and installing the task ubuntu-desktop Aug 23 15:25:31 thanks a bunch! Aug 23 15:29:51 hrw, hmm, the .dsc expects a tar.gz tarball Aug 23 15:30:05 i cant extract it with dpkg-source Aug 23 15:45:55 rsalveti, any chance that we see a pcr for omap3 update (not FF critical indeed) ? Aug 23 15:46:01 *pvr Aug 23 15:46:13 ogra_: that depends on TI providing us the armhf binaries =\ Aug 23 15:46:30 i thought there were published ones Aug 23 15:47:13 not for armhf, at least not by the official channel Aug 23 15:47:30 hmm, i thought i read something about hf binary drivers Aug 23 15:47:41 but i cant findit in my history... Aug 23 15:52:21 ogra_: rsalveti: i don't think i have seen a DDK/armhf for OMAP3. Aug 23 15:52:31 k Aug 23 15:52:48 i think, though, that some TI people are working on adding armhf support in OE, so it is a sign that such binary might show up... Aug 23 15:53:41 well, probably someone talked about an inofficial binary or some such Aug 23 15:53:51 i know i catched it up somewhere Aug 23 15:59:57 * ogra_ adds unity-2d back to the ac100 images Aug 23 16:01:14 ogra_: there's a new mesa at the archive today Aug 23 16:01:21 might be nice to check if unity3d would work Aug 23 16:01:29 or at least how it'd explode Aug 23 16:01:40 rsalveti, well, slangasek apparently tested yesterday, with rather disatrous results Aug 23 16:01:48 hehe :-) Aug 23 16:01:58 it doesnt explode, but itsnt usable either Aug 23 16:03:43 hmm, i see a compiz upload but nothing in the changelog indicates its the one that has GLES Aug 23 16:28:01 ogra_: How does adding unity-2d to ac100 work when it's been removed from the archive? Or did I miss someone adopting it and re-uploading it? Aug 23 16:28:14 it hasnt been removed Aug 23 16:28:20 it was removed from the seeds Aug 23 16:28:51 and i dont think anyone plans to remove it from the archive actually Aug 23 16:29:09 ogra_: Uhm. It was removed from the archive last week. Aug 23 16:29:28 ogra_: Because no one stepped up to fix the dconf->gsettings mess, or something. Aug 23 16:29:37 why does apt-cache madison on a current panda still show source and binary then ? Aug 23 16:30:12 Because it lies? Or has precise in its sources? Or something? Aug 23 16:30:33 The source was removed. Aug 23 16:30:41 SH*T Aug 23 16:30:42 Some binaries may still linger due to them having rdeps. Aug 23 16:31:05 well, rickspencer3's suggestion was actualyl to have it back on the arm images worst case Aug 23 16:31:27 Yes, well. The desktop team screwed you there. Aug 23 16:31:27 and the results for llvmpipe are far from usable Aug 23 16:31:44 damned Aug 23 16:31:47 Probably worth an internal discussion about porting the bits that need porting and reintroducing it. Aug 23 16:31:53 as I understand it, llvmpipe is completely out of the question for ARM Aug 23 16:32:06 we need to wait for the PVR driver to run unity Aug 23 16:32:11 rickspencer3, after slangasek's test results definitely Aug 23 16:32:24 problem is that we'll be able to solve the unity issue just for panda Aug 23 16:32:25 I don't think anyone ever envisioned that it would work, really Aug 23 16:32:28 which we have the river Aug 23 16:32:41 people can dream hehe :-) Aug 23 16:32:45 rickspencer3, haha Aug 23 16:33:01 is there another DE that we can use at least to test until the PVR is available? Aug 23 16:33:11 just to bridge us until Unity is runnable? Aug 23 16:33:12 Gnome 2? Aug 23 16:33:23 rsalveti, right, and for ac100 i was just planningg to pull unity-2d in ... i wasnt aware they actually removed it Aug 23 16:33:27 rickspencer3: the pvr driver will be available later today Aug 23 16:33:40 omap4 will be fine soon Aug 23 16:33:41 oh, so Unity 3d should work(ish) later today? Aug 23 16:33:46 sorry Aug 23 16:33:50 ish, right Aug 23 16:33:57 you guys were talking about other boards Aug 23 16:34:01 * rickspencer3 backs away quietly Aug 23 16:34:03 what wont be fine are all other arm desktop images Aug 23 16:34:27 * rickspencer3 backs back in Aug 23 16:34:38 I wonder if Lubuntu might be a better flavor for other boards? Aug 23 16:34:47 my second choice after re-introducing unity-2d is lubuntu-desktop Aug 23 16:34:52 it runs my eeePC 701, which is pretty impressive Aug 23 16:34:53 but that requires more work for me Aug 23 16:35:01 ogra_: Given that ac100 is a community image, why not just switch it to Xubuntu? :) Aug 23 16:35:11 ogra_, you can't just apt-get install lubuntu-desktop? Aug 23 16:35:17 infinity, why using that much overhead ? Aug 23 16:35:17 ogra_: Or lubuntu, sure. Aug 23 16:35:18 :) Aug 23 16:35:19 lubuntu works as well Aug 23 16:35:31 yeah, and will have a tiny footrprint Aug 23 16:35:33 the lubuntu community targets exactly this scenario Aug 23 16:35:33 * ppisati +1 for reintroducing unity2d Aug 23 16:35:50 ogra_: I really see no reason to ship the full whiz-bang Unity experience for anything except our darling "tech demo" platform (OMAP4). Aug 23 16:35:54 it's the only reason that we bought new PowerPC builders, so that lubuntu could make a PowerPC version Aug 23 16:35:59 ppisati, its gone from the archive ... i dont see how we woudl get it back without lots fo extra work Aug 23 16:36:11 ppisati: And as much as I want unity-2d back, someone needs to commit to the work, it's not self-maintaining. Aug 23 16:36:18 infinity, i agree, but someone has to maintain the differences Aug 23 16:36:20 ogra_: didn't you just said it was just eliminated from seed? Aug 23 16:36:24 *say Aug 23 16:36:32 ppisati, i was just proven wron above Aug 23 16:36:36 ah Aug 23 16:36:36 *wrong Aug 23 16:36:50 ogra_: What difference? s/ubnutu-desktop/lubuntu-desktop/ in the ac100 target in livecd-rootfs, profit? Aug 23 16:37:01 infinity: i agree, but have you ever tried the "3d experience" on a pandaboard? Aug 23 16:37:12 infinity, well, i have to get used to it for testing etc etc Aug 23 16:37:19 infinity: if we need to switch for $foobarUbuntu, i prefer U2d Aug 23 16:37:20 it's working way better with latest compiz Aug 23 16:37:21 ppisati: With the PVR driver, it's not bad. Aug 23 16:37:24 you'd be surprised Aug 23 16:37:25 and will start to fix arm issues on lubuntu Aug 23 16:37:41 since people tend to copmpain to *me* Aug 23 16:37:46 *complain Aug 23 16:37:47 Fixing ARM issues in the whole archive isn't a bad thing. :P Aug 23 16:37:51 But really, it should all Just Work. Aug 23 16:37:56 If it doesn't, we suck at this. Aug 23 16:37:57 A lot. Aug 23 16:38:28 i think its a lot more than changing the target btw Aug 23 16:38:37 Either way. I don't want us shipping desktop images for a ton of platforms regardless. ac100 gets a free pass because it's a pain to install it any other way. Aug 23 16:38:45 i'm not even sure there is any oem-confi support in the lubuntu ubiquity Aug 23 16:38:55 Uhm, it's the same ubiquity... Aug 23 16:39:06 * ppisati goes testing another kernel... Aug 23 16:39:11 they have overlay packages for everythin in lubuntu, no ? Aug 23 16:39:23 Not for the installer itself. Aug 23 16:39:26 * ogra_ needs to get used to this new kbd Aug 23 16:39:33 ok Aug 23 16:39:40 well, then lets just do it :) Aug 23 16:40:07 I suspect just swapping xubuntu or lubuntu in will Just Work, as I said, but either way, it's probably less effort than committing to support unity-2d, unless you want to be the new u2d upstream in your spare time. Aug 23 16:40:14 And if you do, awesome, lots of us love and miss u2d. :P Aug 23 16:40:26 haha Aug 23 16:40:32 i'm not that crazy, no Aug 23 16:40:48 i really would like to see some community people picking it up though Aug 23 16:42:54 infinity, erm, you didnt mean livecd-rootfs but the nusakan crontab (and default-arches), right ? Aug 23 16:47:40 * rickspencer3 looks forward to dist-upgrading panda board tomorrow Aug 23 16:47:46 ogra_: Oh, fair point, it's not hardcoded anywhere. Aug 23 16:48:04 good, you had me confused :) Aug 23 16:48:48 ogra_: But yeah, just add armhf+ac100 to lubuntu's default-arches, and give it a try, I guess. Or do a test-spin by hand. Aug 23 16:48:56 ogra_: It seems like the sane(ish) way forward. Aug 23 16:49:00 yep Aug 23 16:49:10 what do we do with mx5 ? Aug 23 16:49:10 rsalveti, will HD video work tomorrow too? Aug 23 16:49:15 * rickspencer3 hopes Aug 23 16:49:17 LOL Aug 23 16:49:25 hahahaha Aug 23 16:49:25 rickspencer3, we have no codecs Aug 23 16:49:38 so, "not yet", right? Aug 23 16:49:38 and its unlikely they will ever enter the archive Aug 23 16:49:55 ogra_, well, I thought I could install them from somewhere else Aug 23 16:50:03 you can, but for precise Aug 23 16:50:03 with luck TI will provide gstreamer packages and codecs from the PPA after release Aug 23 16:50:07 ogra_: We already dropped mx5 desktop images, didn't we? Aug 23 16:50:12 ogra_: If we didn't, I'll do that. Aug 23 16:50:12 unfortunately for quantal a lot of stuff changed Aug 23 16:50:25 infinity, not sure, i thought that was only temporary Aug 23 16:50:26 they are maintaining like hundreds of patches at the gst packages Aug 23 16:50:44 wrt livebuilder shortage around a milestone Aug 23 16:51:02 ogra_: Nope, the only desktop images we should be producing are omap4 (the blessed tech demo image), and ac100 (cause it sucks installing any other way). Aug 23 16:51:18 i think we do build omap still atm Aug 23 16:51:18 ogra_: But mx5 reminds me that we still need to do d-i images from universe kernels. Aug 23 16:51:32 and i woudl like to keep the opportunity open for an omap3 HF driver Aug 23 16:51:42 so i would like to go on buildin them Aug 23 16:51:54 no need for testing or milestone releases though Aug 23 16:52:19 I see no issues with asking non-omap4 users to use netboot and install desktops by hand. It's not like ubiquity on a Beagle is a pleasant experience anyway. Aug 23 16:52:25 infinity, i guess FF day is a little late for that Aug 23 16:53:02 according to colin there is some heavy lifting involved to make d-i use universe Aug 23 16:54:08 * ogra_ would really like to see some images to actually test flash-kernel-installer Aug 23 16:58:26 ogra_: fetch again Aug 23 16:58:32 will do Aug 23 17:02:22 ogra_: new compiz doesn't include yet the gles branch Aug 23 17:02:30 it's one rev before the one we wanted Aug 23 17:04:19 D'oh. Aug 23 17:06:07 sigh Aug 23 17:06:16 oh that endless game Aug 23 17:08:20 hm, someone really need to spend some time optimizing the updating of the software catalog Aug 23 17:08:39 that always takes a huge time Aug 23 17:08:46 improve IO Aug 23 17:08:57 its unzipping huge files Aug 23 17:09:19 yeah, imagined that Aug 23 17:13:14 bah, sigh Aug 23 17:13:31 if i hadnt messed up livecd-rootfs i could now do an ac100 tesbuild Aug 23 17:13:46 life always strikes back Aug 23 17:21:15 hrw, done Aug 23 17:27:10 ogra_: cool, thanks Aug 23 17:50:23 ogra_: bug 1040611 Aug 23 17:50:24 Launchpad bug 1040611 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] libdri2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040611 Aug 23 17:50:33 ogra_: last piece before the pvr-omap4 driver Aug 23 17:53:00 rsalveti, uh, whats the license Aug 23 17:53:48 http://paste.ubuntu.com/1163077/ Aug 23 17:53:49 expat Aug 23 17:54:17 rsalveti: Is this a generic dri extension thing that's being pushed to fdo/xorg upstream and (eventually) used all over, or some ARM(or TI)-specific madness? Aug 23 17:54:18 oh, i misunderstood "as it's binary only, and built against the shared library " Aug 23 17:54:20 :P Aug 23 17:54:30 i thought that libdri2 had binary bits Aug 23 17:54:39 liked against the free one Aug 23 17:54:45 infinity: no, idea is to be the reference and generic dri extension Aug 23 17:54:52 to avoid duplicates all around Aug 23 17:54:58 rsalveti: If it's not actually generic and intended to be used cross-platform, "libdri" is pretty awful namespace pollution. Aug 23 17:55:09 robclark: ^ Aug 23 17:55:16 he's the father Aug 23 17:55:37 robclark: Bring your sideburns over here and tell me about libdri. Aug 23 18:01:19 * ogra_ runs an ac199 lubuntu-desktop testbuild Aug 23 18:01:24 *ac100 Aug 23 18:01:52 If the ac199 comes with an en_US non-android keyboard, I'll take two. Aug 23 18:02:07 infinity, rsalveti, libdri2 is basically some code extracted out of mesa so that other things can use it Aug 23 18:02:20 infinity, you and your keyboard fixation :P Aug 23 18:02:38 robclark: Sure, I grasp *what* it is, but is it being pushed upstream as a generic solution that others intend to use for this same purpose, etc? Aug 23 18:03:13 robclark: Cause if it ends up being just an ARM thing, just a TI thing, the namespace pollution of "libdri" is a bit icky. Aug 23 18:03:51 robclark: And, if it's partly cargo-culted from mesa, why not build it from mesa, so it can be more readily kept in sync? Aug 23 18:04:07 infinity, well, I did send a while back a patch for mesa to use it.. Aug 23 18:04:07 robclark: (And so others can learn of its existence and use it) Aug 23 18:04:23 anyways, the point was that mesa, vdpau, vaapi, etc where all just copy/pasting the same code Aug 23 18:04:24 robclark: Dude, are you going German on me? Aug 23 18:04:35 :-P Aug 23 18:04:51 "well, I did send a while back a patch for mesa to use it"... I thought Oli typed that, until I read the nick. :P Aug 23 18:04:54 Just sayin'. Aug 23 18:04:57 I need to kick mesa folks again... Aug 23 18:05:01 LOL Aug 23 18:05:14 texas is full of germans Aug 23 18:05:16 lol Aug 23 18:05:19 heheh Aug 23 18:05:30 robclark: Anyhow, if you've had any positive response from upstream about it at all, and if it seems likely it'll end up being "a thing" upstream, then I'm less grumpy about including it as-is as a stop-gap in Ubuntu right now. Aug 23 18:05:35 might have some bad influence on the language :) Aug 23 18:06:17 well.. my reasoning is that currently dri2 is a bit of an exception to the way most x11 extensions work.. ie most you have a proto tree plus a client side lib tree Aug 23 18:06:35 dri2 is the only one (that I know of) that doesn't have a client side lib tree.. hence libdri2 Aug 23 18:07:10 anyways, why is it a namespace issue? Aug 23 18:07:12 robclark: *nod*... Like I said, I'm down with the concept, and your reasoning. Just more curious if you've been able to sell upstream. Aug 23 18:07:24 robclark: But if you're pushing upstream to DTRT here, that's cool. Aug 23 18:07:51 robclark: It's a namespace issue only because I could totally see someone else introducing a libdri that's an entirely different thing, so it would be nice if yours was on the radar and won. :P Aug 23 18:07:52 I do need to kick them again.. if I can make it to xdc then I'll bring it up in person there.. Aug 23 18:08:59 I think main issue is that most everyone on xorg/mesa/gfx side of things has too much to do and too little time to care about those sort of little cleanups :-P Aug 23 18:09:25 bah, lubuntu build failed Aug 23 18:09:37 robclark: You'd think that would make them all the happier about someone else doing it. Aug 23 18:10:24 The following packages have unmet dependencies: Aug 23 18:10:24 indicator-application-gtk2 : Depends: indicator-application (= 0.5.0-0ubuntu1) but it is not going to be installed Aug 23 18:10:28 GRMPF Aug 23 18:11:15 i guess lubuntu wasnt a good choice if they have to port the world to gtk3 first Aug 23 18:11:31 I assume that's just buildd skew. Aug 23 18:12:00 i would assume that indicator-application stopped providing its gtk2 bits Aug 23 18:12:17 infinity: so what do we say, trust robclark and push it to the archive? :-) Aug 23 18:12:30 Oh, indeed. Very recently. Aug 23 18:12:47 rsalveti: Yeah. If robclark fails us, we can wax his face. Aug 23 18:13:18 ogra_: Yell at Seb? Aug 23 18:13:32 infinity, he will just point me to the unity team Aug 23 18:13:39 ogra_: Dropping GTK2 in indicators all over is a nightmare for Xubuntu and Lubuntu, and right before FF, no less. :/ Aug 23 18:13:52 and they then point me to sabdfl ... and i wont yell at him i fear :P Aug 23 18:14:04 You should. Aug 23 18:14:12 In cases like this, he's just another contributor. Aug 23 18:14:21 no, yelling is the wrong approach for sure Aug 23 18:14:27 Until he formally sabdfls something, which is a different matter. Aug 23 18:15:21 there was an email about moving those bits to universe? or was it a complete drop? Aug 23 18:15:32 (e.g. separate source package) Aug 23 18:16:35 well, seb just referred to that mail Aug 23 18:16:40 in -desktop Aug 23 18:17:22 so it seems xubuntu wants to take over maintenance of gtk2 parts in universe Aug 23 18:17:36 ogra_, so xubuntu is not gtk3? Aug 23 18:17:37 but seemingly need to push these in from scratch Aug 23 18:17:41 *xfce Aug 23 18:17:48 no idea Aug 23 18:17:58 they use a lot of gtk2 stuff, that i know Aug 23 18:18:07 lubuntu intrestingly as well Aug 23 18:18:12 i guess for NM Aug 23 18:18:40 infinity: ogra_: and finally, the pvr driver: http://people.linaro.org/~rsalveti/pvr/, but it needs libdri2 Aug 23 18:18:46 yay Aug 23 18:19:14 http://git.linaro.org/gitweb?p=ubuntu/pvr-omap4.git;a=summary Aug 23 18:20:47 scientes: XFCE is GTK2 for now. There was a push for GTK3 porting, and it got derailed upstream. Aug 23 18:21:02 Turns out it's a lot more work than people realised when they first got gung-ho about it. :P Aug 23 18:21:28 Like, effectively a rewrite of half the world. Aug 23 18:22:28 looks like lxde is being ported too Aug 23 18:22:42 and i *was* subscribed to the linux gtk3 migration Aug 23 18:22:56 but that patch and email flow was just too great Aug 23 20:54:48 ogra_: hey, any news about the driver? Aug 23 20:55:02 infinity: for you as well, in case you're willing to sponsor it :-) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 24 03:00:04 2012