**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 19 03:00:01 2012
Oct 19 03:56:18 <mjrosenb> that is odd
Oct 19 03:57:00 <mjrosenb> I ran sudo apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)
Oct 19 03:57:10 <mjrosenb> uname -r is 3.1.0-1282-omap4
Oct 19 03:57:17 <mjrosenb> and it downloaded linux-ti-omap4_3.0.0-1205.10.tar.gz
Oct 19 09:22:13 <mjrosenb> anyone up?
Oct 19 09:24:51 <XorA> yes
Oct 19 09:25:04 <mjrosenb> good to know i'm not the only one.
Oct 19 09:25:17 <XorA> well its 11:25am, even in France we are awake :_D
Oct 19 09:26:05 <mjrosenb> anyone (over in europe) know if it is possible to install a multilib arm system, such that both armel and armhf executables will work?
Oct 19 09:26:33 <mjrosenb> it looks like the default 12.04 system does not have this functionality out of the box.
Oct 19 09:27:00 <XorA> mjrosenb: it is actually possible, but it requires special builds, arm libc can use different varients depending on the capabilities flags
Oct 19 09:27:28 <XorA> mjrosenb: but in reality I think it lead to insanity
Oct 19 09:28:12 <XorA> some really clever person in open moko days even got OABI on EABI loader working
Oct 19 09:28:37 <infinity> XorA: It doesn't require special builds.
Oct 19 09:28:45 <infinity> XorA: And it has nothing to do with capabilities.
Oct 19 09:28:55 <mjrosenb> needing to use an 11.10 install just so Ican have an armel system isn't very sane
Oct 19 09:29:16 <infinity> mjrosenb: 'echo foreign-architecture armel > /etc/dpkg/dpkg.cfg.d/multiarch'
Oct 19 09:29:19 <infinity> mjrosenb: And apt-get update.
Oct 19 09:29:26 <infinity> mjrosenb: And then  you can install foo:armel
Oct 19 09:29:47 <infinity> mjrosenb: Like, say, libc6:armel, if that's what you need.
Oct 19 09:30:15 * mjrosenb tries it.
Oct 19 09:30:16 <infinity> XorA: Caps can't do this at all, armel and armhf are ABI incompatible.
Oct 19 09:37:16 <XorA> sorry was thinking of soft vs softfp
Oct 19 09:37:51 <XorA> arm really needs to stop making up new ABIs!
Oct 19 09:39:46 <mjrosenb> libc6:armel seems to be installing!
Oct 19 09:40:23 <mjrosenb> hey cool, it is dying with a different error!
Oct 19 09:41:07 <mjrosenb> ugh... dependency conflicts
Oct 19 09:42:51 <mjrosenb> why do I have to run "apt-get install libstdc++6-4.6-dev:armel g++-4.6:armel gcc-4.6:armel cpp-4.6:armel binutils:armel", shouldn't debian be able to resolve everything as a dependency when I run apt-get install libstdc++6-dev:armel
Oct 19 09:43:40 * mjrosenb also wonders if gcc-4.6:armel is a cross-compiler to armel, or if it is a native-compiler for armel
Oct 19 09:44:32 <mjrosenb> update-alternatives: using /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/mesa-egl/ld.so.conf to provide /etc/ld.so.conf.d/arm-linux-gnueabihf_EGL.conf (arm-linux-gnueabihf_egl_conf) in auto mode.
Oct 19 09:44:51 <mjrosenb> that looks like it could be bad
Oct 19 09:46:13 <mjrosenb> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1870782
Oct 19 09:46:19 <mjrosenb> ok, that looks *much* worse
Oct 19 09:48:37 <mjrosenb> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1870783
Oct 19 09:48:41 <mjrosenb> well, that's fun.
Oct 19 09:57:11 <phh> mjrosenb: gcc-4.6:armel should be a native armel compiler
Oct 19 09:58:02 <mjrosenb> phh: so if I install gcc-4.6:armel on an x86 machine, I'll get a compiler that I can't use?
Oct 19 09:58:30 <phh> 1.i doubt you can install it; 2.there could be the qemu stuff involved
Oct 19 13:47:46 <ppisati> ndec: any plan to get DVFS upstream?
Oct 19 13:48:00 <ndec> hehe
Oct 19 13:48:08 <ndec> it will, eventually.
Oct 19 13:48:34 <ppisati> i'll take it as "we've no ETA"
Oct 19 13:48:36 <ndec> that is a big task, and it requires developing a generic ARM framework. many people are working on that right now...
Oct 19 13:48:49 <ndec> it will be there, when it's ready ;-)
Oct 19 13:48:52 <ppisati> ok
Oct 19 13:50:33 <ogra_> http://victorpalau.net/2012/10/19/nexus-7-raring-to-go-to-copenhaguen/
Oct 19 13:51:33 <ogra_> :D
Oct 19 13:53:46 <ndec> eheh
Oct 19 13:53:56 <lilstevie> ogra_, hah nice, do you happen to know if that is with the tegra libs?
Oct 19 13:54:54 <ogra_> lilstevie, thats fully running GLES,yes
Oct 19 13:55:11 <lilstevie> oh nice
Oct 19 13:55:29 <lilstevie> good to know that trusted foundations doesn't break the libs
Oct 19 13:55:34 <ogra_> nux was fixed for tegra in that branch
Oct 19 13:55:46 <ogra_> the fixes will flow back into mainline nux
Oct 19 13:56:08 <lilstevie> yeah, that wasn't really the biggest part that I was interested in :)
Oct 19 13:56:30 <lilstevie> the biggest part I was interested in is that the nexus 7 bootloader (and kernel) have trusted foundations enabled
Oct 19 13:56:40 <lilstevie> and the libs, well, don't
Oct 19 13:56:55 <lilstevie> in android it matters
Oct 19 13:58:08 <ogra_> doesnt in ubuntu :)
Oct 19 13:58:15 <ogra_> and the nexus7 ids fully open
Oct 19 13:58:16 <lilstevie> clearly :p
Oct 19 13:58:26 <ogra_> took me a day to get a full native installation working
Oct 19 13:59:11 <lilstevie> yeah, well my main concern as I said was trusted foundations :p I have actually been holding off with the tf201 cause I haven't updated yet
Oct 19 13:59:48 <lilstevie> asus enabled it on the jellybean update for us, involving a very fragmented experience
Oct 19 14:00:05 <lilstevie> tf enabled kernels don't boot on non tf bootloaders and vice versa
Oct 19 14:07:19 <ogra_> ah, well, the nexus is just like the ac100
Oct 19 14:07:38 <ogra_> not much difference apart from double the ram and double the cores
Oct 19 14:10:19 <lilstevie> and the addition of a trustzone driver :p
Oct 19 14:10:35 <lilstevie> point is at least the nexus is consistent
Oct 19 14:11:13 <lilstevie> all n7s have it, not just those with the latest firmware update
Oct 19 14:12:05 <ogra_> i'm not sure it is used at all after you unlocked the bootloader
Oct 19 14:12:19 <ogra_> we definitely dont have any TF firmware in the image
Oct 19 14:12:31 <ogra_> and i dont think TF works without blob
Oct 19 14:12:35 <lilstevie> it is in the kernel though
Oct 19 14:12:49 <hrw> ogra_: so good ubuntu is on nexus7?
Oct 19 14:12:57 <hrw> s/so/so how/
Oct 19 14:12:59 <lilstevie> that is besides the point if it is enabled in the bootloader, it needs to be enabled in the kernel :p
Oct 19 14:13:01 <ogra_> hrw, yeah
Oct 19 14:13:19 <ogra_> hrw, its fine, faster than on panda
Oct 19 14:13:22 <lilstevie> ogra_, turn off CONFIG_TRUSTED_FOUNDATIONS and it will fail boot :p
Oct 19 14:13:42 <hrw> ogra_: two cores more and faster gpu helps I think
Oct 19 14:14:14 <lilstevie> I would love to see unity3d on the tf201
Oct 19 18:53:22 <mjrosenb> hey, has anyone used oprofile on 12.04?
Oct 19 18:56:23 <ogra_> #linaro might
Oct 19 19:52:06 <mjrosenb> ok, slightly easier question
Oct 19 19:52:16 <mjrosenb> is oprofile included with 12.04?
Oct 19 19:56:08 <ojn> I thought all the cool kids used perf these days
Oct 19 19:56:28 <mjrosenb> yes, but perf does not have jit integration.
Oct 19 19:56:49 <ojn> ah
Oct 19 19:58:22 <mjrosenb> and I ended up building oprofile from source, since it looks like it is not in apt
Oct 19 19:58:51 <mjrosenb> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1871282
Oct 19 19:59:39 <ogra_> well, did you ask #linaro ?
Oct 19 19:59:49 <ogra_> ubuntu usually takes what they provide
Oct 19 20:03:17 <GrueMaster> mjrosenb: From what I can tell, precise omap4 kernel has it enabled.
Oct 19 20:11:06 <mjrosenb> GrueMaster: yes, the kernel has it (onieric did not)
Oct 19 20:11:20 <mjrosenb> GrueMaster: but the actual package itself does not have it
Oct 19 20:11:43 <mjrosenb> ogra_: I did, they told me fridays are bad, and gave me a mailing list to email
Oct 19 20:11:49 <mjrosenb> my email there bounced :(
Oct 19 20:14:54 <GrueMaster> Hmm.  Not even in the x86 repo.
Oct 19 20:16:05 <mjrosenb> well, that isn't *too* annoying.
Oct 19 21:44:18 <SoulShadow> soo
Oct 19 21:44:36 <SoulShadow> this place will probably be buzzing in a few days
Oct 19 21:45:24 <SoulShadow> anyone in here planning to pick up the exynos chromebook?
Oct 19 22:02:25 * GrueMaster is tempted, but may have to wait a bit.
Oct 19 22:03:12 <SoulShadow> as soon as they get into BB i'm going to go play with one
Oct 19 22:03:57 <SoulShadow> for $250 it's highly tempting
Oct 19 22:12:25 <mjrosenb> SoulShadow: is that the one that samsung is making?
Oct 19 22:16:18 <SoulShadow> mjrosenb yes
Oct 19 22:16:58 <mjrosenb> yeah, if fry's has any next week, I am totally going to purchase one.
Oct 19 22:19:22 <SoulShadow> they're on amazon
Oct 19 22:22:36 <mjrosenb> yes, but i'm going to be spending the week in california, not at home, so having one delivered here does not do me any good.
Oct 19 22:31:24 <SoulShadow> ahah
Oct 19 22:40:13 <SoulShadow> the only thing really holding me off from buying one mjrosenb is support for other os's
Oct 19 22:40:18 <SoulShadow> since i don't have az whole ton of faith in chrome os
Oct 19 22:41:59 <SoulShadow> is there any a15 support in ubuntu?
Oct 19 22:42:06 <GrueMaster> SoulShadow: From what I understand, the bootloader is unlocked, so if you have a kernel (which should land in Ubuntu for 13.04), you can run Ubuntu.  The rest of the code in the repo should just work.
Oct 19 22:42:24 <SoulShadow> so stuck with chrome os till next year
Oct 19 22:42:41 <SoulShadow> unless someone writes a kernel earlier than 13.04?
Oct 19 22:43:17 <GrueMaster> From what I understand the kernel source is available, but will be pushed mainstream in 3.8.
Oct 19 22:43:28 <SoulShadow> hm
Oct 19 22:43:44 <SoulShadow> well, someone should be able to compile 12.10 w/ 3.8
Oct 19 22:44:33 <SoulShadow> i would imagine it all depends on how much real interest there is in this device
Oct 19 22:44:38 <SoulShadow> it's #1 on amazon in laptops
Oct 19 22:46:32 <GrueMaster> Well, considering kernel 3.7 isn't even out yet, 3.8 should fall inline with the 13.04 timeline.  And I'm sure it will be in backports for 12.04 & 12.10.
Oct 19 22:47:13 <SoulShadow> googling found me some reference of 3.7 a15 support
Oct 19 22:47:54 <SoulShadow> looks like xen support was merged in 3.7
Oct 19 22:47:55 <SoulShadow> for a15
Oct 19 22:48:02 <SoulShadow> so that would mean a15 is already supported, right?
Oct 19 22:48:18 <GrueMaster> Yea, it has been trickling in.  There should be more SOC's coming soon.
Oct 19 22:48:39 <SoulShadow> so there's a chance that 12.10 w/ 3.7 might work
Oct 19 22:48:47 <GrueMaster> I'd say half backed.  Core support is in the kernel, but may need tweeking once real systems come out.
Oct 19 22:49:16 <GrueMaster> Kind of like Intel's Haswell video support.
Oct 19 22:49:18 <SoulShadow> yeah
Oct 19 22:49:24 <SoulShadow> imean, as long as it works
Oct 19 22:49:26 <SoulShadow> it will be supported
Oct 19 22:50:19 <GrueMaster> But the fact that it is in the kernel means it should work (somewhat) when hardware arrives.  This is actually very cool for Linux.
Oct 19 22:51:09 <SoulShadow> this is possibly one of the first truly mainstream devices that linux will be really focused on with
Oct 19 22:51:40 <GrueMaster> I wouldn't say that.  Look at android.
Oct 19 22:52:04 <SoulShadow> i don't consider android to truly be 'linux'
Oct 19 22:52:07 <SoulShadow> in that sense
Oct 19 22:53:38 <GrueMaster> Well, until the hardware settles, there will be limited support in the mainstream kernel.  Expect distro's to have patch sets on top of that to cleanup and optimize functionality.
Oct 19 22:54:19 <SoulShadow> i mean
Oct 19 22:54:24 <SoulShadow> chrome os can't be THAT bad as a daily driver
Oct 19 22:55:27 <GrueMaster> If all you want to do is browse the web, sure.  But I don't think Chromeos is a GP OS.
Oct 19 22:56:44 <SoulShadow> well at the same time the hardware isn't exactly on the levels of a normal laptop
Oct 19 22:58:19 <GrueMaster> Define "Normal".  I did a lot of Banshee debugging while flying to UDS Orlando last year on an AC100.
Oct 19 22:58:56 <SoulShadow> normal as being an intel based laptop
Oct 19 22:59:24 <GrueMaster> If you wanted normal, you wouldn't be in this channel.  :P
Oct 19 22:59:52 <SoulShadow> i'm typing from an inspiron 1520 with an ssd lol
Oct 19 23:00:09 <GrueMaster> Besides, the AC100 took up half the space of my Acer Netbook, and had 2x the battery life.
Oct 19 23:00:38 <GrueMaster> I'm typing from a Windows 7 based T60 (new job - sucks).
Oct 19 23:00:53 <SoulShadow> doesn't the t60 have the high res 4:3 display
Oct 19 23:01:51 <GrueMaster> Not sure.  Oops.  T61 (my bad).  It is a Centrino based system.  My netbook can run circles around it.
Oct 19 23:02:09 <SoulShadow> lol
Oct 19 23:02:29 <SoulShadow> i'm curious about true battery life of the notebook
Oct 19 23:02:37 <GrueMaster> I actually run a remote desktop on an Ubuntu platform for doing real work.  Just IT won't support it on the wifi network.
Oct 19 23:02:38 <SoulShadow> they say 6.5 hours
Oct 19 23:02:39 <SoulShadow> but
Oct 19 23:02:43 <SoulShadow> that is very low
Oct 19 23:02:46 <infinity> I was using a T61 until just a few months ago, I'm not sure how anything could run circles around it...
Oct 19 23:02:47 <GrueMaster> Hard to say.
Oct 19 23:02:52 <infinity> Unless you just meant the battery life.
Oct 19 23:02:59 <GrueMaster> For a 3-cell, that is about right.
Oct 19 23:03:01 <SoulShadow> my desktop runs circles around it :P
Oct 19 23:03:06 <SoulShadow> it's a 30whr it seems
Oct 19 23:03:18 <SoulShadow> but, tablets with 30whr batteries are getting much higher battery life
Oct 19 23:03:20 <GrueMaster> Try running Windows 7.
Oct 19 23:03:34 <infinity> I gamed in Win7 on it.
Oct 19 23:03:39 <SoulShadow> and this is a tablet chip in a netbook
Oct 19 23:03:53 <SoulShadow> i feel like it's very conservative
Oct 19 23:03:58 <SoulShadow> or at least, i hope it is
Oct 19 23:04:06 <GrueMaster> infinity: With Intel Integrated Graphics?  Really?
Oct 19 23:04:23 <SoulShadow> he's probably got an upgraded one
Oct 19 23:04:28 <infinity> GrueMaster: No, mine had the nvidia discrete.
Oct 19 23:04:30 <GrueMaster> We're talking bottom barrel.
Oct 19 23:04:31 <SoulShadow> not a bare minimum model
Oct 19 23:04:42 <infinity> And 8G of RAM.  And such.
Oct 19 23:04:45 <infinity> It was no slouch.
Oct 19 23:04:47 <GrueMaster> Well, there you go.
Oct 19 23:05:06 <infinity> The CPU in the T61, at least on the top end, was faster than my current WhateverBridge.
Oct 19 23:05:15 <GrueMaster> Mine has 2G, Intel Graphics, and a slow 250G Sata drive.
Oct 19 23:05:39 <infinity> Well, even at those specs, it's a heck of a lot faster than an ac100.  Just sayin'.
Oct 19 23:05:43 <infinity> But yes, the batter life sucks. :P
Oct 19 23:05:51 <GrueMaster> My netbook at least has a 120G SSD and 2G.
Oct 19 23:06:09 <GrueMaster> The only issue I had with the AC100 was ram and storage.
Oct 19 23:06:15 <SoulShadow> [19:04:54] <infinity> The CPU in the T61, at least on the top end, was faster than my current WhateverBridge.
Oct 19 23:06:16 <SoulShadow> no.
Oct 19 23:06:28 <SoulShadow> i don't care what cpu it is, it's not faster than sandy/ivy
Oct 19 23:06:40 <mjrosenb> GrueMaster: hey, you seemed to know something about oprofile last night, you up for helping me figure out why it isn't working?
Oct 19 23:06:54 <GrueMaster> My battery is so old, it barely survives walking to the lab from my cube.
Oct 19 23:07:24 <GrueMaster> mjrosenb: I really don't, other than I can look on my pandas at home to see if it is supprted.
Oct 19 23:07:37 <GrueMaster> I haven't used it.
Oct 19 23:07:55 <mjrosenb> GrueMaster: ahh. oh well.
Oct 19 23:08:00 <infinity> SoulShadow: For multi-threaded builds, my old machine was faster, yes.  This Bridgy thingee shines for single-threaded tasks when it gets to overclock itself and go all turbo.
Oct 19 23:08:09 <SoulShadow> infinity: uhmmm
Oct 19 23:08:13 <GrueMaster> mjrosenb: Sorry.
Oct 19 23:08:18 <SoulShadow> what is your processor
Oct 19 23:08:26 <SoulShadow> because sandy and ivy are faster period
Oct 19 23:08:30 <infinity> i7-2640M
Oct 19 23:08:31 <SoulShadow> no questions asked
Oct 19 23:08:39 <SoulShadow> k, you have a dual core w/ HT
Oct 19 23:08:46 <SoulShadow> sandy bridge
Oct 19 23:08:46 <infinity> Yes, I know what I have.
Oct 19 23:08:50 <SoulShadow> what was the other one
Oct 19 23:09:00 <infinity> The other one is on another continent right now.
Oct 19 23:09:06 <SoulShadow> do you know what it was?
Oct 19 23:09:10 <SoulShadow> x9100?
Oct 19 23:09:19 <infinity> Don't recall.
Oct 19 23:09:30 <infinity> I just know what "faster" means.
Oct 19 23:09:38 <infinity> And it's not synthetic benchmarks or brochures.
Oct 19 23:09:59 <SoulShadow> well i'm TELLING you that the i7 is faster period, there's another bottleneck somewhere you're experiencing
Oct 19 23:10:20 <GrueMaster> Probably io bound.
Oct 19 23:10:25 <infinity> Well, thank god you're TELLING me that, now I know.
Oct 19 23:10:42 <infinity> UPPER CASE makes everything on the internet MORE TRUE.
Oct 19 23:10:44 <SoulShadow> you're telling me that a c2d is faster than an i7
Oct 19 23:10:50 <SoulShadow> and that's a blatantly false statement
Oct 19 23:11:00 <GrueMaster> Or if the other system was a Core2Quad.
Oct 19 23:11:49 <SoulShadow> i don't believe t61 supported that
Oct 19 23:12:19 <GrueMaster> Not sure.  Should be socket compatible though.
Oct 19 23:12:19 <SoulShadow> yeah the fsb difference makes it not post
Oct 19 23:12:25 <SoulShadow> the quads are 1066
Oct 19 23:12:27 <mjrosenb> SoulShadow: I could imagine an incredibly high end core2quad being faster than a very low end corei7, but the fact that it is *bridge rather than nehalem makes it less beliveable.
Oct 19 23:12:36 <SoulShadow> mjrosenb: but it's not a quad
Oct 19 23:12:44 <GrueMaster> SoulShadow: Not on the Cor2 series.
Oct 19 23:12:52 <SoulShadow> GrueMaster: q9000 is 1066
Oct 19 23:13:06 <SoulShadow> http://ark.intel.com/products/40480/Intel-Core2-Quad-Processor-Q9000-6M-Cache-2_00-GHz-1066-MHz-FSB
Oct 19 23:13:27 <SoulShadow> the t61 was 800mhz
Oct 19 23:13:30 <infinity> Wikipedia claims it was a T9600.
Oct 19 23:13:56 <SoulShadow> http://ark.intel.com/products/33918/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-T9500-6M-Cache-2_60-GHz-800-MHz-FSB fastest proc in a t61
Oct 19 23:13:57 <infinity> (Which was a 1066 MHz FSB, FWIW)
Oct 19 23:13:59 <SoulShadow> because it's 800mhz
Oct 19 23:14:06 <SoulShadow> when i googled everything said 800mhz, infinity
Oct 19 23:14:09 <SoulShadow> so...that's odd
Oct 19 23:14:40 <infinity> Meh, maybe it was the 9500.  Remember the "other side of the planet" thing.
Oct 19 23:15:00 <SoulShadow> yeah, the t9500 is not even close to being as fast as an i7-2640m
Oct 19 23:15:11 <SoulShadow> at all
Oct 19 23:15:11 <GrueMaster> I was going to say the same thing, since I have both Core2Duo & Core2Quad systems at home.
Oct 19 23:15:17 <infinity> Because you bench them together all the time?
Oct 19 23:15:22 <SoulShadow> um
Oct 19 23:16:02 <SoulShadow> because the c2d is really old, and sandy bridge is an evolution on that, with much higher clocks and a newer architecture with more cache and hyperthreading, therefore giving you higher overall performance
Oct 19 23:16:11 * GrueMaster wonders how the ubuntu-arm channel became a place for debating Intel spec's.
Oct 19 23:16:22 <SoulShadow> because he said that the i7 was slower than a c2d
Oct 19 23:16:33 <SoulShadow> and i almost spit my pop out
Oct 19 23:16:45 <infinity> SoulShadow: Everything you said there ignored everything we know about CPU design.
Oct 19 23:17:06 <infinity> SoulShadow: "Much higher clocks" imply "deeper pipelines" imply "CPUs at the same clock as the previous generation will be slower".
Oct 19 23:17:22 <SoulShadow> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/54?vs=289
Oct 19 23:17:26 <infinity> SoulShadow: And my i7 is only 200MHz higher clock than my C2d.
Oct 19 23:17:30 <SoulShadow> highest end c2d (desktop)
Oct 19 23:17:31 <SoulShadow> um
Oct 19 23:17:35 <SoulShadow> vs lowest end i3
Oct 19 23:17:37 <SoulShadow> sandy bridge
Oct 19 23:17:44 <SoulShadow> LOWEST END I3
Oct 19 23:18:15 * GrueMaster wanders off from the SHOUTING MATCH.
Oct 19 23:18:36 <SoulShadow> your i7 turbos
Oct 19 23:18:40 <SoulShadow> you can't not take that into account
Oct 19 23:18:44 <SoulShadow> because it should almost always run at turbo clocks
Oct 19 23:18:53 <infinity> SoulShadow: I kinda pointed out that my i7 doesn't turbo.
Oct 19 23:18:57 <SoulShadow> what
Oct 19 23:19:04 <infinity> SoulShadow: Because that's not how multi-threaded loads work.
Oct 19 23:19:15 <SoulShadow> it still does turbo
Oct 19 23:19:17 <SoulShadow> just not as much
Oct 19 23:19:34 <infinity> Infrequently.  Not enough to make much of a blip.
Oct 19 23:19:49 <SoulShadow> o.O
Oct 19 23:19:56 <SoulShadow> do you have heat issues?
Oct 19 23:20:09 <SoulShadow> it should run at max (dual core) turbo during load
Oct 19 23:20:22 <infinity> SoulShadow: It's a laptop, of course it has heat issues.
Oct 19 23:20:30 <SoulShadow> not all laptops have heat issues..
Oct 19 23:20:40 <infinity> It's a Lenovo laptop, of course it has heat issues.
Oct 19 23:20:40 <SoulShadow> i guess a better question is
Oct 19 23:20:45 <SoulShadow> there we go
Oct 19 23:20:48 <SoulShadow> that's what i was about to ask
Oct 19 23:21:04 <infinity> Anyhow, I'm more than through with you talking down to me like I'm a seven year old child who has no idea what a computer is.
Oct 19 23:21:54 <SoulShadow> hah.
Oct 19 23:22:11 <SoulShadow> anyway, back to the more channel-appropriate discussion of the chromebook
Oct 19 23:23:06 <SoulShadow> i wish they put more storage in it, 16GB is too small.
Oct 19 23:24:27 <GrueMaster> Add a 32G or 64G SD.
Oct 19 23:24:38 <SoulShadow> true, but it's not quite the same
Oct 19 23:25:08 <GrueMaster> Depends on usage model.
Oct 19 23:25:32 <GrueMaster> If you are playing a movie or music, they are plenty fast.  Even for doc storage.
Oct 19 23:25:50 <GrueMaster> It's when you are doing heavy compiles that it really hurts.
Oct 19 23:26:52 <GrueMaster> Of course, I have never liked the idea of using a laptop for heavy loads.  They cost too much and weigh too much to handle the equivalent load of a remote desktop system.
Oct 19 23:27:36 <SoulShadow> does it have a media and music player?
Oct 19 23:27:36 <SoulShadow> lol
Oct 19 23:28:01 <GrueMaster> Not sure if chromeos does.  Ubuntu does.
Oct 19 23:28:35 <GrueMaster> But you should be able to install Ubuntu into a chroot and run with it, worst case.
Oct 19 23:29:21 <SoulShadow> true, but yeah, a chromebook isn't for compiling
Oct 19 23:29:46 <GrueMaster> Neither is an AC100.  But it can do it.
Oct 19 23:30:03 <SoulShadow> i wouldn't try it
Oct 19 23:30:37 <SoulShadow> what's the a100 run?
Oct 19 23:30:41 <SoulShadow> tegra 2?
Oct 19 23:30:50 <GrueMaster> yea.
Oct 19 23:30:53 <SoulShadow> ew
Oct 19 23:30:54 <SoulShadow> lol
Oct 19 23:31:07 <GrueMaster> With 512M ram and 8G eMMC.
Oct 19 23:31:34 <SoulShadow> do we have any info on the performance of a15 cores?
Oct 19 23:31:34 <GrueMaster> Like I said, for Ubuntu Desktop the only real limiter was the memory.
Oct 19 23:31:54 <mjrosenb> SoulShadow: I've heard a15 is much much better than a9.
Oct 19 23:32:30 <SoulShadow> it's faster sure, but we have no real benchmarks
Oct 19 23:33:38 <SoulShadow> the DDR3 in the chromebook should provide some nice performance
Oct 19 23:35:05 <GrueMaster> Again, it's all relative.  From what I can see the sticking point will be with storage, but any linux distro can live comfortably in 4G or less.  The rest is user storage, which can be supplanted with SD.
Oct 19 23:35:32 <GrueMaster> 2G memory on an arm platform is like 8G on an Intel platform.
Oct 19 23:35:50 <SoulShadow> does mali have good linux support
Oct 19 23:36:00 <GrueMaster> (note that is a usage comparison).
Oct 19 23:36:31 <GrueMaster> Mali is the GPU, right?
Oct 19 23:36:32 <mjrosenb> GrueMaster: but attempting to do dev work with 4G is a mit constraining
Oct 19 23:36:35 <mjrosenb> or eve debug
Oct 19 23:36:39 <mjrosenb> GrueMaster: yes, Mali is the gpu.
Oct 19 23:36:50 <SoulShadow> mali-t604
Oct 19 23:36:52 <SoulShadow> quad core gpu
Oct 19 23:37:08 * mjrosenb will just be happy to have storage that isn't over a usb bus.
Oct 19 23:37:09 <GrueMaster> Like all Arm GPU's, linux support is binary only.
Oct 19 23:37:28 <SoulShadow>  Depending on clock speeds I would expect peak performance north of the PowerVR SGX 543MP2, although I'm not sure if we'll see performance greater than the 543MP4. The Mali-T604 also brings expanded API support including DirectX 11 (feature level 9_3 though, not 11_0).
Oct 19 23:37:34 <SoulShadow> hm
Oct 19 23:38:16 <GrueMaster> Yea, cause Linux needs that DirectX support.
Oct 19 23:38:42 <mjrosenb> yeah, I was going to say...
Oct 19 23:38:43 <SoulShadow> i'm more amused by the fact they say 'dx11 supported'
Oct 19 23:38:46 <SoulShadow> but only supports 9.3
Oct 19 23:38:54 <mjrosenb> how about opengl support?
Oct 19 23:39:19 <SoulShadow> supposedly supports 3.0
Oct 19 23:39:19 <GrueMaster> They must be supporting Windows RT as well.
Oct 19 23:39:27 <SoulShadow> opengl es 3.0
Oct 19 23:39:30 <SoulShadow> and opencl 1.1
Oct 19 23:39:32 <GrueMaster> THAT is good.
Oct 19 23:40:58 <SoulShadow> what is openvg
Oct 19 23:42:56 <SoulShadow> it supports: OpenGL ES 1.1 -> 3.0, OpenVG 1.1, OpenCL 1.1, DX11, Renderscript
Oct 19 23:43:38 <GrueMaster> OPenVG - Vector Graphics Acceleration
Oct 19 23:47:47 <SoulShadow> still torn between nexus 7 and chromebook
Oct 20 00:01:43 <SoulShadow> so..
Oct 20 00:01:49 <SoulShadow> GrueMaster: seems there's no working mali drivers for linux?
Oct 20 00:02:29 <GrueMaster> I wouldn't know.  I think Linaro are working on some, but not sure.
Oct 20 00:02:46 <SoulShadow> linaro tweaks on android break a shit ton of things
Oct 20 00:03:52 <GrueMaster> Time to shutdown and go home.  I'll be back on line later tonight and tomorrrow.
Oct 20 00:09:38 <dfernandes> just tried to boot 12.10 on a pandaboard, and ubiquity crashed during the install, is this known?
Oct 20 00:14:25 <ozzloy> will ubuntu arm run on the new google chromebook?
Oct 20 00:15:39 <dfernandes> Also, is there any equivalent of the preinstalled image for 12.10?
Oct 20 00:16:33 <SoulShadow> ozzloy: we have no idea
Oct 20 00:16:38 <SoulShadow> chances are not right away
Oct 20 00:18:20 <ozzloy> SoulShadow, http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.com/2012/04/chrubuntu-1204-now-with-double-bits.html i just looked for "chromebook ubuntu" looks like it can
Oct 20 00:18:27 <ozzloy> sorry for asking before doing that
Oct 20 00:18:47 <SoulShadow> you said the new one
Oct 20 00:19:08 <SoulShadow> the new chromebook is A15 cores
Oct 20 00:19:11 <SoulShadow> the old ones were a9
Oct 20 00:19:23 <SoulShadow> a15 support doesn't seem to be here until 3.7 or 3.8
Oct 20 00:19:42 <SoulShadow> and it doesn't seem to be that there's a mali t604 driver
Oct 20 00:24:01 <ozzloy> SoulShadow, oic
Oct 20 00:24:28 <ozzloy> i was more wondering if ubuntu would run on chromebooks in general
Oct 20 00:24:56 <ozzloy> so linux 3.8 and later will probably be needed to run on a chromebook?
Oct 20 00:25:03 <ozzloy> on the latest chromebook*
Oct 20 00:25:14 <SoulShadow> on the latest chances are it will need kernel 3.7 or so
Oct 20 00:25:19 <SoulShadow> can't quote me on that
Oct 20 00:25:32 <ozzloy> kk
Oct 20 00:25:46 <SoulShadow> more info will be available once the device is widely avail
Oct 20 00:26:03 <ozzloy> i believe it's widely available right now
Oct 20 00:26:12 <ozzloy> i plan on going to best buy and getting one for my mom
Oct 20 00:26:15 <SoulShadow> it's prorder.
Oct 20 00:26:16 <SoulShadow> preorder
Oct 20 00:26:20 <SoulShadow> doesn't go on sale till next week
Oct 20 00:26:26 <ozzloy> aw
Oct 20 00:26:44 <ozzloy> well thanks for letting me know that
Oct 20 00:26:58 <SoulShadow> lol
Oct 20 00:27:05 <SoulShadow> yeah
Oct 20 00:27:20 <ozzloy> i've wanted a chromebook for a while, and just recently decided to do it.  then i found out there was a new one out
Oct 20 00:27:27 <ozzloy> but i guess it's not even out for reals yet
Oct 20 00:52:52 <mjrosenb> SoulShadow: chrome os is based on a linux kernel, I can't imagine that linux *won't* run on it.
Oct 20 00:57:54 <SoulShadow> mjrosenb guess we'll find out huh
Oct 20 00:58:05 <SoulShadow> i mean, it'll run, yeah
Oct 20 00:58:21 <SoulShadow> just a matter how soon they get it running
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