**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 04 02:59:58 2013 Apr 04 08:47:43 The Google Samsung Chromebook has the same ARM chip in as the Nexus 10 - does that mean that I should technically be able to run the ARM versions of Ubuntu on the tablet? Apr 04 08:51:51 kvarley: yes, doesn't mean it would have all the pheripherals functioning correctly though Apr 04 08:52:29 pheripherals including but not limited to: display drivers (; Apr 04 08:52:29 Tm_T: Hmm, true. Could I boot the 13.04 image with the android kernel though? Apr 04 08:52:43 Tm_T: A patched driver has hit the 13.04 repos Apr 04 08:53:14 kvarley: I suppose it would be worth trying, but I have no knowledge about the said chromebook Apr 04 08:53:22 Or so Phoronix claims http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI5Mzg "The Ubuntu 13.04 repository just received ARM's new universal X.Org graphics driver, a.k.a. the xf86-video-armsoc DDX. This is a generic ARM SoC DDX driver for the X.Org Server originally derived from the xf86-video-omap driver." Apr 04 08:54:34 Tm_T: I may have to read up on this. I think the stumbling block is having to include the video driver in the rootfs because I'll likely have no wifi access on the device Apr 04 08:55:42 Hmm, the SoC is the same but the GPU is different Apr 04 08:58:13 Hello. Can you help me remap arrow keys + Alt to End,PgUp etc... I think xmodmap can't help. Apr 04 09:02:04 On Chromebook (: Apr 04 09:33:04 kvarley: 13.04 has most of things you need to get ubuntu running on chromebook Apr 04 09:38:01 hrw: Out of the box? Apr 04 09:38:11 kvarley: define 'out of box' Apr 04 09:38:19 hrw: fresh install Apr 04 09:38:28 define 'fresh install' Apr 04 09:38:43 hrw: lol, as in the images published for the chromebook 13.04 Apr 04 09:38:55 there will be no images for chromebook Apr 04 09:38:56 no, there are no images Apr 04 09:39:08 i wouldnt say "will be" ... Apr 04 09:39:22 but currently there arent any Apr 04 09:39:24 no one wanted to join in development of chromebook support and I am too lazy/occupied to work on it Apr 04 09:39:48 i use my CB to much, else i would probably invest some time to make images Apr 04 09:40:01 but creating the first set simply means a lot of reinstalls Apr 04 09:40:26 hrw: Ok, if I took this image raring-preinstalled-desktop-armhf+ac100.tar.gz would it at least boot on the Nexus 10 if I booted with the Android kernel? Apr 04 09:40:45 kvarley: nexus 10 != arm chromebook Apr 04 09:41:09 hrw: I know, but they share the same SoC so the configuration would likely be similar Apr 04 09:41:39 kvarley: ac100 share the same SoC as "LG 4xHD" cellphone - would ubuntu run on a phone? Apr 04 09:42:14 kvarley: for nexus10 you may ask ubuntu touch guys do they have some image Apr 04 09:43:12 hrw: ok, thanks Apr 04 09:43:13 for nexus 4,7,10 and galaxy nexus there are touch images Apr 04 09:43:52 kvarley: if you use ac100 image and boot it with default chromeos kernel it will start Apr 04 09:44:11 no x11 probably but will start Apr 04 09:44:53 it might even fall back to xfbdev ... who knows :) Apr 04 09:49:48 anyway that reminds me that 3.4.0-7 is waiting for be built/uploaded Apr 04 09:51:22 and I finally got microsd->sd adapters which do not stick out from chromebook Apr 04 09:52:46 ogra_: http://dx.com/p/2-in-1-tf-card-to-sd-card-adapter-usb-card-reader-white-126299 Apr 04 09:53:03 ogra_: cut usb part and it will not stick out Apr 04 09:54:31 * ogra_ wonders why the CSS is so messed up Apr 04 09:54:53 its unreadable here ... layers of text over layers of text Apr 04 10:08:24 git-buildpackage + chromium-kernel git repo == problems ;d Apr 04 10:13:30 good thing is that aptitude works now on armhf Apr 04 10:15:40 pfft, aptitude ... Apr 04 10:15:57 * ogra_ doesnt know anyone using it Apr 04 10:16:30 pretty pointless to have two package DBs installed just for some commandline UI Apr 04 10:16:49 ogra_: flash-kernel still does not have DT support? Apr 04 10:17:06 i didnt add any ... and nobody sent patches Apr 04 10:17:15 ask ppisati :) Apr 04 10:17:25 ogra_: show me other useful APT UI for console and I may switch Apr 04 10:17:52 aptitude is *not* an apt UI ... it has nothihng to do with apt at all Apr 04 10:18:09 I use it as such ok? Apr 04 10:18:16 it is its own package tool ... simply duplicating what apt does Apr 04 10:18:55 just wastes extra disk space with an additional DB Apr 04 10:19:19 * ogra_ stays with apt :) Apr 04 10:20:03 I went dselect -> console-apt -> aptitude Apr 04 10:20:55 well, except the gui part aptitude today has no features that apt doesnt provide also Apr 04 10:21:06 (it used to in the past) Apr 04 10:21:18 sure, but I use that UI part Apr 04 10:21:24 yeah Apr 04 10:22:09 i have better usage for teh several MB that wastes on my disk :) Apr 04 10:22:36 ;D Apr 04 10:29:33 hm. hacking flash-kernel does not have sense Apr 04 10:29:58 it can guess where rootfs is from /proc/cmdline but can not where kernel is stored Apr 04 10:30:16 in /boot indeed :) Apr 04 10:30:18 along with the dtb Apr 04 10:30:33 ogra_: will you package u-boot for chainloading? Apr 04 10:30:51 i pull whatever linaro packages ... as usual Apr 04 10:31:03 Linaro does not do any chromebook stuff Apr 04 10:31:08 if i even have to pull ... i think jcrigby can just upload nowadays Apr 04 10:31:50 linatro has the mainline branch as base for their packages ... so you could ask for a binary that goes into ubuntu i guess Apr 04 10:32:41 I have no idea which ver of u-boot works for chainloading Apr 04 10:33:00 * ogra_ neither Apr 04 10:33:51 I use aptitude all the time, largely because of the UI - it is much easier to select packages from multiple choices or look at suggests and recommends manually using an interactive UI than trying to add things to the apt-get command line iteratively Apr 04 10:33:51 though mainly on debian, and especially on minimal single-use embedded systems (instead of a desktop), so I guess the situation may look different from an Ubuntu desktop perspective... Apr 04 10:34:48 Rjs: I doubt that ubuntu desktop comes with something similarly usable Apr 04 10:36:33 well, especially on embedded i wouldnt use aptitude ... unless you have a lot of diskspace Apr 04 10:37:08 yep Apr 04 10:37:18 there are other tools to get rid of useless stuff Apr 04 10:37:24 debfoster for example Apr 04 10:37:29 ogra_: hmm, on embedded I've found that aptitude is the best way (for me) to keep the number of installed packages minimal and still have all features I need (I use it with auto-install recommends off and select manually perhaps around 70% of the recommends) Apr 04 10:38:05 Rjs: what is your 'embedded' hardware? Apr 04 10:38:11 i'm not talking about comfort :) Apr 04 10:38:27 aptitude adds its own package database Apr 04 10:38:35 in parallel to the apt one Apr 04 10:38:47 hrw: mostly alix's embedded geode pc's (i.e. x86) and a few openmoko gta02's Apr 04 10:39:10 Rjs: alix was nice hw. I used 1c for few years Apr 04 10:39:11 ogra@chromebook:~$ du -hcs /var/lib/apt/lists/ Apr 04 10:39:11 95M /var/lib/apt/lists/ Apr 04 10:39:32 if plain apt had an interactive UI with the features of aptitude, I'd probably switch to it, but I haven't found anything comparable... Apr 04 10:39:38 hrw@krolik:/var/lib$ du -hs aptitude/ apt Apr 04 10:39:38 7,8M aptitude/ Apr 04 10:39:38 84M apt Apr 04 10:39:42 it wont actually double that up but will definitely add a lot on top Apr 04 10:40:11 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4046282 kwi 4 12:14 pkgstates Apr 04 10:40:11 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4046326 kwi 4 12:13 pkgstates.old Apr 04 10:40:16 that's all? Apr 04 10:40:55 dunno, as i said, never using aptitude Apr 04 10:41:04 I've found on my system that keeping auto-install recommends on (which I guess would be the only practical choice with a non-interactive UI) would add much more than that amount of diskspace, plus lots of services and background processes that I have no use for Apr 04 10:41:34 so switch it off :) Apr 04 10:42:03 but it's probably heavily dependent on the user preferences and what the systems are for (e.g., I have several desktop systems without gvfs or udisks or network-manager or all that complexity, but still a somewhat minimal and very usable X11 system for my purposes) Apr 04 10:42:54 pfft, X11 .... Mir is the future Apr 04 10:42:57 *g* Apr 04 10:43:16 at least on arm Apr 04 10:43:19 but not the present :) Apr 04 10:43:41 well, i heard it works on nexus 4 and 7 already Apr 04 10:44:21 the advantage is that it doesnt need any special drivers ... you can just use the android blobs Apr 04 10:44:22 ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5676209/ - everything needed for device tree support? Apr 04 10:45:07 hrw, dunno, as i said, talk to ppisati Apr 04 10:45:28 ppisati: ping ^^ Apr 04 10:46:23 * ogra_ has no clue at all how dtb stuff is implemented in our kernels Apr 04 10:46:47 ogra_: s/dtb/DT/ Apr 04 10:47:14 and given that nearly all future ubuntu arm development will be android kernel based .... Apr 04 10:47:30 (except for server i guess) Apr 04 10:48:15 ogra_: I heard rumours that s/eglibc/bionic/ is also planned Apr 04 10:49:40 hrw, nope Apr 04 10:49:54 that would have been an april fool :) Apr 04 10:50:08 ogra_: there was such? :D Apr 04 10:50:18 we do make heavy use of libhybris to bridge between the two Apr 04 10:50:25 I was mostly travelling on 1st April Apr 04 10:50:57 Saarbrücken -> FRA -> TXL -> home Apr 04 10:51:39 yeah Apr 04 10:51:45 i read g+ :) Apr 04 10:53:07 hrw: dtb support for flash-kernel i suppose? Apr 04 10:53:13 ppisati: yes Apr 04 10:53:37 ppisati: just other way to identify machine Apr 04 10:54:10 hrw: iirc we had another patch for dtb support from... marvin? Apr 04 10:54:20 marvin24: ^ Apr 04 10:55:18 it was similar iirc Apr 04 10:55:25 19:24 < marvin24> hi, I'm about to add http://paste.ubuntu.com/5602702/ to our version of flash-kernel Apr 04 10:55:35 * ogra_ remebers it at least using the same path in /proc Apr 04 10:55:57 that's not that Apr 04 10:56:10 https://launchpadlibrarian.net/133791292/flash-kernel_3.0~rc.4ubuntu29_3.0~rc.4ubuntu29-tegra.diff.gz Apr 04 10:56:24 also not that Apr 04 10:56:49 he just added support for BT based Tegra board using FDT entry from /proc/cpuinfo Apr 04 10:57:03 ~hail /lastlog marvin Apr 04 11:38:55 ech, 3.4.0-6 has broken keyboard Apr 04 12:13:00 hrw: what is BT based? Apr 04 12:13:27 marvin24: DT? Google Snow (aka Samsung ARM Chromebook) Apr 04 12:13:27 ppisati, hrw: my goal is to find a way to tell uboot which DT to load until we have full DT support in uboot Apr 04 12:14:05 hrw: no, this is for ac100, but all tegra2/3/4 boards should be supported Apr 04 12:14:23 btw, does the flash-kernel db support wildcards? Apr 04 12:14:57 e.g. Machine: nVidia Tegra* (Flattened Device Tree) Apr 04 12:15:01 marvin24: your change used name from /proc/cpuinfo while mine adds reading of model from DT Apr 04 12:15:32 hrw: no, I use /proc/device-tree/model as you Apr 04 12:15:46 you posted the link Apr 04 12:16:03 https://launchpadlibrarian.net/133791292/flash-kernel_3.0~rc.4ubuntu29_3.0~rc.4ubuntu29-tegra.diff.gz Apr 04 12:16:18 this is used to copy the device tree to /boot where uboot can find it Apr 04 12:16:19 marvin24: you use /proc/device-tree/model to copy DTB but not to identify device in flash-kernel Apr 04 12:16:45 hrw: sorry, but why is this necessary? Apr 04 12:17:06 the kernel supports multi-soc Apr 04 12:17:08 marvin24: Chromebook returns "SAMSUNG EXYNOS5 (Flattened Device Tree)" which covers also Andale which can not boot Chromebook kernel Apr 04 12:17:30 marvin24: I have only 3.4 kernel for Chromebook Apr 04 12:18:06 looks more like missing Andale kernel support for me - right? Apr 04 12:18:12 marvin24: so my goal is to use DT model when cpuinfo reports DT device. this way same SoC devices may run other flavours Apr 04 12:18:30 marvin24: I want to support *one* device as I do that in my free time Apr 04 12:18:53 I also check for "grep -q 'Flattened Device Tree' /proc/cpuinfo " fiest Apr 04 12:18:57 when Linaro kernel teams will get Andale into working condition then they will have 3.9-rc etc Apr 04 12:18:58 *first Apr 04 12:19:23 marvin24: moment... Apr 04 12:19:35 hrw: are you also planing to copy the device tree to /boot ? Apr 04 12:19:45 or just use the device tree from uboot Apr 04 12:20:03 I don't know how far exynos support has grown Apr 04 12:21:51 when user runs 'flash-kernel' script it checks /proc/cpuinfo for Hardware line and then do whatever it has to. For your Tegra work it is enough as you have one kernel for all devices + set of DTB files. So flash-kernel do what it has to and then kernel postinst runs your script to put proper DTB in /boot/ according to /proc/device-tree/model file. In my case on Exynos5 we do not have that luxury and different devices (so far) use different kernels so I need to hav Apr 04 12:22:14 and Chrombook is using signed kernels... Apr 04 12:24:40 marvin24: but I see how my patch may make your work harder Apr 04 12:27:32 hrw: thanks for the explaination Apr 04 12:27:52 http://paste.ubuntu.com/5676446/ may be better as allows to cover your usecase (one database entry for whole DT platform) and mine (many database entries per DT platform) Apr 04 12:28:18 will require some comments in code to describe it Apr 04 12:29:34 hrw: I don't see why your original patch should cause problems Apr 04 12:30:02 marvin24: your entry from https://launchpadlibrarian.net/133791292/flash-kernel_3.0~rc.4ubuntu29_3.0~rc.4ubuntu29-tegra.diff.gz will be skipped as DT model name would be used Apr 04 12:30:49 marvin24: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5676446/ checks /proc/cpuinfo, gets "NVidia Tegra DT" identifier. Checks database - o, we support it already - go. Apr 04 12:31:25 marvin24: when there is no "This platform DT" in database it will read DT model name and search for it. Apr 04 12:31:39 ah, machine is something like Toshiba AC100 again instead of common "Tegra20 ..." Apr 04 12:31:43 yes Apr 04 12:32:27 hrw: ok, so your latter patch should match the common device tree early Apr 04 12:32:48 yes, if it is in flash-kernel database Apr 04 12:33:06 now I got it - thanks! Apr 04 12:34:40 marvin24, ppisati: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5676460/ - is this comment readable enough? Apr 04 12:36:52 hrw: looks good to me Apr 04 12:36:57 cool Apr 04 12:37:43 now how can I get the db entry into offical flash-kernel? Apr 04 12:37:52 marvin24: report a bug Apr 04 12:37:58 with debdiff Apr 04 12:38:10 ok, thanks again Apr 04 12:38:33 marvin24: so on AC100 what is in /proc/device-tree/model and what is a name of dtb? Apr 04 12:39:12 * marvin24 has to boot up first Apr 04 12:39:34 cause on Chromebook it is 'Google Snow' + exynos5250-snow.dtb so your hook for copying DTB may not work Apr 04 12:40:46 works Apr 04 12:46:10 hrw: model is "Toshiba AC100 / Dynabook AZ" Apr 04 12:46:16 thx Apr 04 12:46:23 so this would match the old fastboot entry in the db Apr 04 12:46:54 while /proc/cpuinfo gives "nVidia Tegra20 (F..D..T)" Apr 04 12:47:27 * marvin24 needs to go to the car garage ... Apr 04 12:48:19 Bug #1164484 Apr 04 12:48:20 Launchpad bug 1164484 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "Add support for checking Device Tree model name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164484 Apr 04 13:29:42 hrw, i dont think that patch will fly, you completely ignore the device DB Apr 04 13:31:13 hrw, you rather want an entry for each supported DT device in the DB and tell it to use DT ... Apr 04 13:32:20 instead of ignoring *all* checks by just runing "if ! check_supported "$machine"; then" Apr 04 13:34:30 ogra_: I do not ignore DB Apr 04 13:34:50 check_supported checks the DB Apr 04 13:34:54 yes Apr 04 13:35:10 you *want* that and a proper DB entry Apr 04 13:35:36 ogra_: so for all Tegra devices you want DB entry? Apr 04 13:35:40 imagine machines with DT and NAND ... or special bootloader setups Apr 04 13:36:08 for now you only need one for the ac100 ... andf it needs to switch between the old and new ways Apr 04 13:36:11 ok, I start to see Apr 04 13:36:20 hangout now - be back Apr 04 13:36:30 since the distro doesnt use marvins DT kernel yet Apr 04 13:40:17 re Apr 04 13:41:06 ogra_: if distro supports DT platform with one kernel - add DT entry. if with several ones - remove DT entry, add DTnames entries Apr 04 13:42:28 or we can change check to: grab cpuinfo, check for DT, check for DTName = use if present, use DT if not Apr 04 13:42:52 please add comment to the bug Apr 04 13:43:33 hrw, yeah, second option sounds good Apr 04 13:59:08 can we also add wildcards to the machine detection? or is this too dangerous? Apr 04 13:59:39 currently, it seems we only detect exact matches: if [ $value = $machine ]; ... Apr 04 13:59:41 i dont think the code can handle that Apr 04 14:01:40 something like [[ $value =~ $machine ]] Apr 04 14:01:48 (don't know if dash handles this) Apr 04 14:19:59 arr, no regex in dash Apr 04 14:24:51 dash lacks everything and more Apr 04 14:25:19 I have no idea what you're talking about, but just in case this helps: all Bourne shells should support case which supports matching by glob patterns (not regexps) Apr 04 14:25:19 e.g: case "$value" in foo-*) echo match ;; *) echo no match ;; esac Apr 04 14:26:00 marvin24: grep -e? Apr 04 14:28:34 hrw: maybe one should just replace dash by grep which has more features ;-) Apr 04 14:32:47 ogra, marvin24, ppisati: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5676804/ then Apr 04 14:32:51 "case" is I think the standard thing to use for wildcard matching in shell scripts, unless you specifically need regexps instead of glob patterns; grep is quite complicated to use in comparison (something like if echo "$value" | grep regexp >/dev/null 2>&1; then except if value begins with -, and I may have forgotten some other detail too) Apr 04 14:33:47 Rjs: if [ -n "`echo something|grep`" ]; then ;D Apr 04 14:34:22 I have it in one of my scripts... Apr 04 14:34:28 lool, any opinion about hrw's patch ? ^^^ Apr 04 14:35:47 the case equivalent would be something like: case "$machine" in *device tree*) machine="$(get_devicetree_model)" ;; esac Apr 04 14:36:22 (though $(...) is also non-portable, should use `...` instead) Apr 04 14:38:17 though if the script is complex enough to have user-defined functions, you could possibly consider just specifying /bin/bash and forgetting about portability :) (unless it's used somewhere where it's possible that only dash or e.g. busybox sh is available) Apr 04 14:39:29 hrw, ogra_: still fine I think Apr 04 14:40:00 I'll do some more tests in the next days Apr 04 14:40:09 maybe I can also solve the regex problem ;-) Apr 04 14:44:27 Bug #1164484 - v3 added Apr 04 14:44:28 Launchpad bug 1164484 in flash-kernel (Ubuntu) "Add support for checking Device Tree model name" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164484 Apr 04 14:54:13 hrw, ogra_: Might be best to call this device_tree_model instead of machine Apr 04 14:56:48 lool: and add zillion of 'if/else/fi' in code everywhere? Apr 04 14:57:18 lool: machine is also wrong named then - should be proc_cpuinfo_hardware Apr 04 14:58:27 hrw: machine is the historical name of it in the code and of the command-line override Apr 04 14:59:00 lool: machine is also variable which tells which entry from deviceDB to use - right? Apr 04 14:59:14 Yes; currently these are real Hardware names though Apr 04 14:59:26 lool: it was Yes/No question Apr 04 14:59:56 lool: so what my patch does is just expanding ways of checking for names Apr 04 15:01:16 lool: otherwise we will go back into flash-kernel < 3 version where we had huge selects instead of database Apr 04 15:04:12 hrw: It's just that I'd rather grep the db for model entries Apr 04 15:04:21 hrw: e.g. search for DeviceTree-Model: xyz in the db Apr 04 15:05:01 good point as well Apr 04 15:06:49 lool, yeah i think thats what i said above too Apr 04 19:15:55 mmh, Xorg on raring crashes Apr 04 19:16:07 paste.ubuntu.com/5677653 Apr 04 19:16:28 I've seen something like this before Apr 04 19:16:33 when pci is missing Apr 04 19:22:34 indeed, pci probe Apr 04 20:02:47 marvin24, hmm Apr 04 20:03:11 segfaulting isnt nice though ... and it works on todays ac100 image Apr 04 20:05:23 oh, indeed ... 3.8 ... Apr 04 20:39:33 ogra_: do you have nexus7 with ubuntu desktop laying around? Would you please show me it's cmdline? Apr 04 20:40:55 i dont ... Apr 04 20:41:07 okay, no problem Apr 04 20:41:47 it's just that the prebuilt boot.img has console=tty0 in cmdline, and the installer then changes it to tty1, and I'm not sure which one is correct Apr 04 20:41:57 it is the cdmline the bootloader sets plus "root=/dev/mmcblk0p7 ro quiet splash" Apr 04 20:42:19 doesnt matter Apr 04 20:42:26 as long as its a tty Apr 04 20:42:44 the prob is that the bootloader puts console= in Apr 04 20:42:50 without any value Apr 04 20:43:10 that confuses a few things Apr 04 20:45:28 ogra_: I think we can fix it - just a moment Apr 04 20:45:48 * marvin24 compiles new xserver on his ac100 Apr 04 20:51:03 marvin24, give it to tjaalton in #ubuntu-x Apr 04 20:51:42 (or mlankhorst if it takes until tomorrow) Apr 04 20:51:59 ogra_: ok, thanks - will try Apr 04 21:20:48 ogra_: no reply - I guess they will just point me to the bug tracker Apr 04 21:21:03 basicly, a simple NULL pointer check is missing Apr 04 21:21:26 yeah, i see it in the channel Apr 04 21:21:33 i guess he went to bed already Apr 04 21:21:45 yes, also time for me Apr 04 21:21:55 ha, no, he didnt Apr 04 21:22:04 dentist is waiting for me late in the night Apr 04 21:22:06 oh Apr 04 21:30:54 what's the gpu in a nexus 7? Apr 04 21:31:09 and an n900? Apr 04 21:31:37 I need to build a gles app and am wondering which way lies least pain Apr 04 21:32:10 bloody gpu people are such a PITA, making everything painful Apr 04 21:32:17 nexus7 is tegra Apr 04 21:32:18 3 Apr 04 21:32:35 if yu use the ubuntu image you even have a proper driver preinstalled Apr 04 21:32:58 n900 should be PVR ... no idea what version, no idea about drivers Apr 04 21:33:02 I thought the ubuntu image used !X of some sort? Apr 04 21:33:11 did you see this about tegra-drivers: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia_tegra_3d&num=1 Apr 04 21:33:13 the desktop image uses X ... Apr 04 21:33:19 we have two for the nexus7 Apr 04 21:33:46 wookey_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation Apr 04 21:33:53 thats for the desktop image Apr 04 21:34:26 (i would do the manual install ... but make your choice) Apr 04 21:34:39 right I read tha tpage yesterday - I didn't notice anything about two diff images Apr 04 21:34:43 gildean, yeah Apr 04 21:35:03 ogra_: didn't take them long, only like three years Apr 04 21:35:10 OK and 'desktop install' means 'normalish ubuntu' Apr 04 21:35:15 wookey_, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install ... thats the android based Ubuntu Touch Apr 04 21:35:30 right, desktop means literally desktop :) Apr 04 21:35:44 OK, just 'desktop on a small screen' Apr 04 21:35:49 yep Apr 04 21:35:57 sadly not scaling very well :) Apr 04 21:36:01 so you'll still need a keyboard and mouse to do various things Apr 04 21:36:09 yup Apr 04 21:36:37 there is an onscreen kbd Apr 04 21:36:42 OK. I was hoping that I could use the touch UI and make it work reasonably for the small set of about 3 programs I need to run Apr 04 21:36:53 but for programming you want a real one or at least ssh Apr 04 21:37:21 sure, use the touch image for that ... but that doesnt use X Apr 04 21:37:29 but as you say with onscreen keyboard and unity and some tweaking maybe the desktop version can be OK Apr 04 21:37:50 problem is that the main app uses wx and wx needs X (I think) Apr 04 21:37:52 you have the choice :) Apr 04 21:37:57 ah, yeah Apr 04 21:38:11 that keeps you stuck on the desktop image Apr 04 21:38:22 OK. that clears some things up anyway. Apr 04 21:38:38 It does seem like the least-painful option for now Apr 04 21:39:07 hopefully it'll be a bit less crufty than debian on an openmoko :-) Apr 04 21:39:21 which was pretty damn crufty Apr 04 21:41:43 heh Apr 04 21:41:53 it is snappy and pretty usable actually Apr 04 21:42:17 i used it as my living room tablet and as ebook reader ... worked fine for that Apr 04 21:42:43 the stuck-mouse-button bug is still there unfortunatelly :/ Apr 04 21:43:03 yeah, there is a fix upstream though Apr 04 21:43:13 sadly apparently hard to backport Apr 04 21:43:31 yeah, saw the discussion on launchpad Apr 04 21:44:13 but from what I can understand from that bug entry, it is set as must-fix before raring release, right? Apr 04 21:44:40 well, it was ... now touch came around ... Apr 04 21:44:47 we'll see Apr 04 21:44:52 hm, yeah, and mir Apr 04 21:45:09 Mir wont enter the archive before release Apr 04 21:46:00 no, but I suppose the nexus7 image doesn't have very high priority...or does this happen on all touchscreen devices, even PC? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Apr 05 02:59:58 2013