**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 14 02:59:57 2009 Jun 14 03:00:03 I love vim Jun 14 03:00:09 I use echo and sed Jun 14 03:00:09 ;-) Jun 14 03:00:28 I use vim for everything, but someday I need to find a good project manager type plugin for it Jun 14 03:00:40 kernel source trees get a bit annoying to browse through in vim Jun 14 03:00:45 chrisa: jira? :P Jun 14 03:00:56 rwhitby: for a second i thought you were comparing vi to notepad Jun 14 03:01:15 phb: no, I mean in the source files sense Jun 14 03:01:18 But also, ugh jira Jun 14 03:01:44 whoiswhois: they are both just editors ... Jun 14 03:01:54 they arent though Jun 14 03:01:55 For anyone who was around earlier, I was using the nick "Halcyonandoff2" but I'm sticking with this one now. Jun 14 03:02:06 jblebrun: wb Jun 14 03:02:13 Thanks Jun 14 03:03:04 * rwhitby wonders whether anyone at Palm has installed optware yet ... Jun 14 03:03:26 besides ssh, what else can i do with optware Jun 14 03:03:28 We don't have much need of optware for the most part Jun 14 03:03:29 chrisa: yeah, I've been using vim for OpenAFSs code base, and it's a bit much Jun 14 03:03:32 what's optware Jun 14 03:03:33 ? Jun 14 03:03:35 so now it's vim + grep Jun 14 03:03:55 summatusmentis: The majority of us in my group tend to use kscope for the huge codebases Jun 14 03:04:01 But I still edit in vim Jun 14 03:04:06 is that like cscope? Jun 14 03:04:11 psykoz: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ is Optware Jun 14 03:04:25 oh, just KDE front end Jun 14 03:04:25 It's a very nice frontend for cscope Jun 14 03:04:36 there's a vim plugin to cscope Jun 14 03:04:40 I should set that up Jun 14 03:04:42 chrisa probably has something like "Chrisa's all in one pre-thing-a-ma-jig" and has the pre doing laundry. Jun 14 03:04:57 I wish. I don't even have a production pre Jun 14 03:05:14 whoiswhois: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/WhatPeopleAreReallyUsingTheirSlugsFor is what people use Optware for on a Linksys NSLU2 - the Pre is just another internet-connected Linux box, so you should be able to do most of that on it too. Jun 14 03:05:15 but really? are they that different? Jun 14 03:05:20 yours vs. production? Jun 14 03:05:32 egh, a compile of arm / apps is nice but really... has anyone made any apps that directly interface with Luna yet? I mean that's what we're waiting on right?' Jun 14 03:05:34 production are less scratched Jun 14 03:05:38 ha Jun 14 03:05:39 Yours are much nicer Jun 14 03:06:00 my theoretical-at-some-point-in-the-future Pre :) Jun 14 03:06:02 psykoz: having apps such as strace, tcpdump, etc are handy for working out what everything else on the device is doing Jun 14 03:06:05 my slider is already loose and wiggles. Jun 14 03:06:28 I need to swap my pre out whenever they have some stock at the store :( Jun 14 03:06:31 DOA camera Jun 14 03:06:32 back. Jun 14 03:07:09 psykoz: if we had a public SDK, the order of doing things would be different I expect ;-) Jun 14 03:07:14 But I can just swap out mine with my wife's .. ohh I should root hers when she isn't looking and then make it do fun shit while she's away! Like turn the torch on. Jun 14 03:07:32 rwhitby, ;) Jun 14 03:07:32 maybe it's just because all the people here are tech users, but it seems like there are a lot of hardware issues with the Pre's Jun 14 03:07:42 Kaerey: i think the loose slider is a common issue Jun 14 03:07:44 * rwhitby chuckles at what 'root' means in Australia and how it's being used here ... Jun 14 03:08:01 EvanPro: it's because I make it slide a lot. Jun 14 03:08:32 the only thing we need from the public sdk now is the docs Jun 14 03:08:38 and we dont really even need that i think Jun 14 03:08:53 if the rumours are correct that Palm could only get 150K out of a 500K order, then one has to expect a wide variability on hardware build quality Jun 14 03:08:55 believe me... having the docs makes it easier Jun 14 03:09:02 rwhitby: I mean... arguably there's similar connotations... Jun 14 03:09:08 if we weren't lazy, we probably could have almost written our own mojo docs by now lol Jun 14 03:09:14 cyanidepoison: we can make our own docs Jun 14 03:09:20 EvanPro: we think alike Jun 14 03:09:31 coming from iPhone 1.1.x, making your own docs isn't fun Jun 14 03:09:44 header files _aren't_ documentation Jun 14 03:09:51 hopefully by the time the Pre makes it to .au the production line will be six sigma Jun 14 03:10:24 I've been lucky with my unit Jun 14 03:10:27 me too Jun 14 03:10:29 whoiswhois: lol yeah Jun 14 03:10:46 I keep hoping Palm will release a WebOS device like the centro very soon that I can buy, and keep on my SERO plan :) Jun 14 03:11:14 but I don't see that happening Jun 14 03:11:19 prolly not Jun 14 03:11:41 What's SERO anyway? I'm not familiar with it Jun 14 03:11:57 sprint employee referel something? Jun 14 03:11:58 it was an old sprint referral plan that was leaked on the internet Jun 14 03:12:05 sprint's faux-employee referral program Jun 14 03:12:07 Sprint Employee Referral Author Jun 14 03:12:26 offer? Jun 14 03:12:29 $30/mo, 500 minutes, unlimited data, sms, 7pm n/w Jun 14 03:12:32 wow, Offer Jun 14 03:12:38 no clue where Author came from Jun 14 03:12:52 Funny when that happens Jun 14 03:13:25 So has anyone done http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository starting from scratch? Any refinements needed? Jun 14 03:13:53 rwhitby: ur really making people lazy Jun 14 03:14:05 exporting MYUSER like that Jun 14 03:14:10 atleast make us work for it Jun 14 03:14:12 So SERO is probably something they don't offer still to new people? Jun 14 03:15:24 chrisa: correct, they don't offer it to anyone anymore... I heard that you can't even renew the contract if you're already on it Jun 14 03:15:53 chrisa: nope, the stopped offering it about a year ago. The equivalent now is SERP (Sprint Everything Referral Program), but not nearly as good of a deal Jun 14 03:16:03 Hairchrm: I'm pretty sure you can't Jun 14 03:16:08 whoiswhois: this is gonna be turned into a script once it's got through a Palm OTA update ... Jun 14 03:16:14 so it's written like a script Jun 14 03:16:29 rwhitby: im going through it now. Jun 14 03:16:43 rwhitby: with my additional instructions, obviously. Jun 14 03:16:43 cool Jun 14 03:16:55 summatusmentis: but it was good while it lasted... Jun 14 03:16:55 ill let you know of any edits i make :P Jun 14 03:17:22 Hairchrm: it's still good, I'm not sure I wanna give it up for the Pre :) Jun 14 03:17:34 Hairchrm: I got it about a month before it was no longer available Jun 14 03:17:42 summatusmentis: ur missin out Jun 14 03:17:46 the pre is awesome Jun 14 03:17:57 heh i pay $60/mo for the pre. Jun 14 03:18:05 tictac: SERP? Jun 14 03:18:07 summatusmentis: wow... nice timing! Jun 14 03:18:08 nope. Jun 14 03:18:23 join alliant credit union... 25% off. Jun 14 03:18:25 whoiswhois: yeah, I know :( I only get 1x speeds most of the time Jun 14 03:18:33 oh Jun 14 03:18:36 then not so much Jun 14 03:18:43 pretty much :-/ Jun 14 03:18:50 vandi: nationwide? Jun 14 03:18:57 summatusmentis: my current employer allows for a reduction. Jun 14 03:19:02 yeah. just have to say you are a member of the PTA... Jun 14 03:19:03 I'm on an old att plan that I have a 20% discount on and my data is like $10 Jun 14 03:19:06 I'm wary of getting rid of it Jun 14 03:19:18 rwhitby: i went through it like butter. worked perfectly. thanks for all of the clarity. Jun 14 03:19:36 vandi: The Parent Teacher Alliance? :-P Jun 14 03:19:37 or if you go out to their website, you can find the magic code. Jun 14 03:19:48 yeah, I think so. Jun 14 03:20:18 hrm, just got a nintendo ds emulator to start video... rebooted though ;) Jun 14 03:21:03 hrm, it can tell if a battery is authentic? Jun 14 03:21:07 wild. Jun 14 03:21:12 vandi: 25% off of $70 is still a bit much for 1x speeds Jun 14 03:21:34 best, I can suggest... Jun 14 03:22:00 vandi: batteries these days have all sorts of crazy stuff on them Jun 14 03:22:04 rawdeadfish: thx for the feedback Jun 14 03:22:08 I think it even ends up close to cheaper than the new Employee referal. Jun 14 03:22:12 vandi: yeah, no, I know, just still a lot of money :) Jun 14 03:22:15 just realized the palm doesnt have shadow support. Jun 14 03:22:24 vandi: yeah, it is, it's about $8 cheaper Jun 14 03:22:48 what does enabling tty do Jun 14 03:23:32 tictac: that's correct, iirc somebody said that the shadow directory is present but empty? Jun 14 03:23:32 what about samba has anyone tried to get that running? Jun 14 03:23:39 laugh Jun 14 03:23:48 probably pretty easy to do. Jun 14 03:24:02 depends on if optware has a samba package or not Jun 14 03:24:06 otherwise you'll have to build it Jun 14 03:24:40 that would be a slick way of adding things over the net without usb support. Jun 14 03:25:16 vandi: thats what ssh is for. Jun 14 03:25:21 I wouldn't think samba would be very good for performance. I'd recommend just using SCP. Jun 14 03:25:29 2nd that ripper Jun 14 03:25:40 ssh + wget = ability to get anything. Jun 14 03:25:44 I don't see it. Jun 14 03:25:52 it = samba Jun 14 03:25:53 just annoying that IP kept on changing.. maybe I need to get some ddns lib so it update ip with ddns Jun 14 03:25:55 or scp if you are cautious. Jun 14 03:26:24 hmm. i should alter my dns to allow the pre. i wonder if the ipkg has a no-ip client. Jun 14 03:26:52 I would guess not Jun 14 03:27:21 tictac: it has a number of them Jun 14 03:27:25 sweatshop-sprint-castle - 1.0-118 - Version 1.0-118 of package sweatshop-sprint-castle Jun 14 03:27:25 nice... Jun 14 03:27:27 ipkg-opt install noip I think Jun 14 03:27:29 awesome. Jun 14 03:27:52 summatusmentis: optware does have samba Jun 14 03:27:52 geeze. 1x RTT is slooooooow :-/ Jun 14 03:28:05 tictac: it really is Jun 14 03:28:10 vandi, what is that sprint-castle? Jun 14 03:28:14 works fine in Palm OS Blazer thugh :) Jun 14 03:28:16 though* Jun 14 03:28:30 summatusmentis: samba (v3) or samba2 are the main packages Jun 14 03:28:31 i hate having crappy service in my house and having to resort to the airave. Jun 14 03:28:31 ./ipkg-opt list samba Jun 14 03:28:31 samba - 3.2.11-2 - Samba suite provides file and print services to SMB/CIFS clients. Jun 14 03:28:31 it is there. Jun 14 03:28:53 samba2 is also there, and is more lightweight Jun 14 03:28:54 Hello Jun 14 03:28:56 sweatshop? Jun 14 03:28:58 I wish I could get an airave. I end up putting my pre in airplane mode so it stops searching for a signal it'll never find. Jun 14 03:29:13 so get one. i got one on ebay about 8 months ago for $80. Jun 14 03:29:20 rwhitby: just a pkg thats in there. sweatshop was just so... eh.. never mind.. Jun 14 03:29:27 It's not avaliable in my zip code for whatever reason Jun 14 03:29:27 The only drawback to the airave is the fact that Sprint charges you a monthly fee to use your own internet connection Jun 14 03:29:34 I think it has to do with FCC regs or something. Jun 14 03:29:40 BTW, for those who are paranoid - 'tor' is available in optware too ... Jun 14 03:29:41 rwhitby: ok, cool Jun 14 03:29:42 rwhitby: complain to sprint and they will make it available. Jun 14 03:29:43 Im trying to run talk.py and i am still getting connection was refused and i turned off my windows firewall and my router firewall Jun 14 03:29:50 I'm told that if I could get it in my area I could call retentions and they'd give it to me for free with no fees Jun 14 03:30:06 ripper: indeed. Jun 14 03:30:16 * rwhitby would find it hard to complain to sprint, being in .au and all ... Jun 14 03:30:19 wonder if they will give me a second one... Jun 14 03:30:42 my airway is in the office and I don't have a signal in my computer room and it's on the way other side of the house. Jun 14 03:30:47 doomsday: me too.. Jun 14 03:30:49 what're we calling SPrint about? Jun 14 03:30:53 rwhitby: aussie eh? do you just have a $200 linux device then? :P Jun 14 03:30:57 I complained to sprint and they gave me the airave for free except i have to pay the monthly $4 charge Jun 14 03:31:01 Funny, I haven't heard anyone else say that they can't get it in their area. I must be horribly unlucky. Jun 14 03:31:03 tictac: I don't have a Pre Jun 14 03:31:17 rwhitby: so why are you here? :P Jun 14 03:31:17 and it's gonna be much more than $200 in .au I expect. Jun 14 03:31:23 probably $1K unlocked GSM Jun 14 03:31:33 tictac: so the Pre is in a good enough state for me to use when I get it. Jun 14 03:31:34 ahh future pre owner. Jun 14 03:31:45 tictac: 1) he started the channel. 2) he's really into embedded linux stuff :) Jun 14 03:31:51 I need help getting talk.py to run Jun 14 03:31:56 ahh. i wondered who started the channel. Jun 14 03:31:56 it has to replace my Treo 650, and it wouldn't cut it right now. Jun 14 03:31:57 can anyone help me figure that out? Jun 14 03:32:05 wow.. rwhitby.. hat out to you such dedication to ensure every kinks work out. ha..ha.. Jun 14 03:32:07 still can't figure out why putty on my laptop won't work, but it does work from my windows desktop and ssh from my uxix server... Jun 14 03:32:22 rwhitby: it wouldn't cut it? why not? Jun 14 03:32:29 diordna: this channel is just a way of getting other people to do the stuff I need done ;-) Jun 14 03:32:39 summatusmentis: no ssh gui client yet, for a start. Jun 14 03:32:51 no openvpn support Jun 14 03:32:51 pssh ftw! Jun 14 03:33:06 no IRC gui client Jun 14 03:33:19 we need an sdk for all of that ;( Jun 14 03:33:21 :( * Jun 14 03:33:30 We don't need no stinkin' SDK Jun 14 03:33:31 irc gui? pfft. irssi Jun 14 03:33:42 email app is not user friendly when managing high volume mailing lists (delete takes you back to subject list rather than to next unread) Jun 14 03:33:46 I can go on .... Jun 14 03:33:49 i've got linux identifying itself and getting from the announcement part to the NOP part ... Jun 14 03:33:59 openvpn would be very nice as would an terminal gui (such as putty) Jun 14 03:34:01 tictac: yeah, gui terminal app would be enough for most things Jun 14 03:34:01 tictac: irssi might be difficult, we'd need ctrl and esc on the keyboard Jun 14 03:34:06 email needs a way to mark all read (unless I'm blind and missing it) Jun 14 03:34:16 is everyone on here a dev? or people like me who are curious what is going on behind the scenes Jun 14 03:34:18 email needs to *work* period. :( Jun 14 03:34:25 summatusmentis: alt+arrows work fine. Jun 14 03:34:28 Max__: I'm a wanna be dev, I don't have time Jun 14 03:34:31 Max__: lots of lurkers Jun 14 03:34:33 just curious Jun 14 03:34:36 (which is good) Jun 14 03:34:38 tictac: well, do we have alt? Jun 14 03:34:52 summatusmentis: we could create a key bind for a Meta key Jun 14 03:35:01 (Meta = alt) Jun 14 03:35:05 we're trying to make the main devs with +v, so speak up if you think you should have that Jun 14 03:35:23 yah.. email everyone.. and especially for those with super-sensitive IT admin EAS got to work without getting involved with them. :( Jun 14 03:35:23 not me haha Jun 14 03:35:29 tictac: have you played with binding keys at all? Jun 14 03:35:38 i am to afraid of even rooting my pre Jun 14 03:35:43 do it Jun 14 03:35:44 * rwhitby bbiab Jun 14 03:35:48 it's easy! Jun 14 03:35:51 is it risky Jun 14 03:35:57 what benifits can i get from it tho Jun 14 03:35:57 (I say as I don't have a device) Jun 14 03:36:06 you can play sounds remotely! Jun 14 03:36:11 i dont care about the little stuff Jun 14 03:36:17 like changing universal search Jun 14 03:36:25 Who was looking into turning of the DTMF sounds? Jun 14 03:36:29 that's one thing I'm super excited about, actually Jun 14 03:36:30 come on.. Max.. lost of benefit.. Jun 14 03:36:33 summatusmentis: not for a while. mine have been the same for years. Jun 14 03:36:45 Because I just did it Jun 14 03:36:45 rwhitby: sorry, im not too good at wording things. :) Jun 14 03:36:48 BTW, we need a new term instead of 'brick' - if the doctor can recover it, it's not a brick. Jun 14 03:36:48 tictac: I meant on the device Jun 14 03:36:50 sprint call log, multi launcher page, custom notif from Scott, etc... Jun 14 03:36:59 I suggest 'soft-brick'. Jun 14 03:37:01 sweet, figured it out. was on the wrong wifi... Jun 14 03:37:08 summatusmentis: oh. nope. i havent even looked at doing that. i can add that to the research list. Jun 14 03:37:11 or just plain cool to ssh to your phone and tell it to shutdown.. or just download music, etcc... from your home server. :) Jun 14 03:37:12 call log? Jun 14 03:37:14 rwhitby: true Jun 14 03:37:33 lmao vandi. Change your SSID from Linksys :mP Jun 14 03:37:36 whats the multi launcher page? Jun 14 03:37:42 rwhitby: 2nd that Jun 14 03:37:47 hmm what about 'fixable-brick' Jun 14 03:37:49 :P Jun 14 03:37:51 Cant mount as a usb drive now lol Jun 14 03:38:00 This may completely unrelated to what you guys are doing here, but what about the default browser page icons? Jun 14 03:38:01 there's a torrent client in ipkg-opt as well... Jun 14 03:38:12 http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher Jun 14 03:38:20 any chance we can modify those? Jun 14 03:38:37 nah, I have two wireless networks, but on the same physical network, but forsome reason laptop was on the farside of the house AP, and pre is on closer side AP... Jun 14 03:38:45 Stik: The wiki's been changed for the ipkg setup. Using a loopback device makes the USB drive unmountable. The fix is to do a bind mount from /var instead of /media/internal Jun 14 03:38:51 oh that reminds me, i need to figure out why the pre doesnt like ad-hoc networks. Jun 14 03:38:53 anyone has idea for the terminal on the phone??? I think it is really needed to be done... been poking around, but no idea as where to start. :( Jun 14 03:38:58 mdklein: dude, I forgot about that, that's really awesome Jun 14 03:39:12 diordna: its on my things-to-do Jun 14 03:39:13 oh ok.. Jun 14 03:39:38 diordna: I don't know enough about it, my sense is that it'll be difficult to do with html/css/javascript Jun 14 03:39:42 but maybe I'm way off base Jun 14 03:39:50 diordna: its gonna be require some javascrip skilzz Jun 14 03:39:54 tictac: I found that if you turn off WiFi on the phone, and then do "wifidriver -i", it will turn the wifi radio on without the rest of the pre noticing. Jun 14 03:40:03 diordna: i've been thinking about some sort of webshell to localhost (the pre), but haven't had time to dig in Jun 14 03:40:12 Then you can enable ad-hoc mode and it sticks Jun 14 03:40:15 mikeDOTd: that's a good point Jun 14 03:41:06 rwhitby-treo: what client do you use? Jun 14 03:41:12 Or is there any projects that need some OS level help? I took Java in college.. but that was back in 2000 Jun 14 03:41:21 ptpchat Jun 14 03:41:36 awesome Jun 14 03:42:03 1? Jun 14 03:42:21 Maybe I should get a real IRC client Jun 14 03:42:29 BitchX Jun 14 03:42:31 :0) Jun 14 03:42:37 I meant on the 650 :) Jun 14 03:42:42 I use irssi anywhere else Jun 14 03:42:45 (I'm using Adium right now) Jun 14 03:42:50 jblebrun: ill make a note of that. thanks. Jun 14 03:42:56 im getting [Errno 10061] when running talk.py with windows firewall disabled :( anyone know why? Jun 14 03:43:22 what ver of windows doomsday? Jun 14 03:43:26 Who's running the wiki? Jun 14 03:43:26 vista Jun 14 03:43:30 I'm tempted to crack open the old java books in prep for the SDK release.. Jun 14 03:43:45 JavaScript is not Java Jun 14 03:43:47 hmm i dunno i heard vista works, i had that problem on 7 and just used a vm (winxp) Jun 14 03:43:49 It would be sweet to have a BitchX app Jun 14 03:43:50 * tictac continues to use tidbits as his personal pre storage ;) Jun 14 03:43:56 o0zeno0o: Javscript books would be more useful. Jun 14 03:43:57 (or any irc app) Jun 14 03:44:02 damn Jun 14 03:44:28 I dont have to disable the firewall on the router correct? since its just using localhost it doesnt go through the router Jun 14 03:44:28 any other security software? Jun 14 03:44:30 Mogren,doomsday.. i got talk.py work for me... on vista 64bit.. ensure you install python 2.6.2 Jun 14 03:44:35 or any 2.6.x Jun 14 03:44:36 No, no anti-virus Jun 14 03:44:59 i did novaproxy.. worked really well. Jun 14 03:45:09 i do have python 2.6.2 installed Jun 14 03:45:16 I dont have to do a reboot do I? Jun 14 03:45:24 i am really good with javascript, but the problem with a terminal app is that i have no solution for a socket connection yet. Jun 14 03:45:32 i'm waiting for the sdk to do my own apps, but i really want to add an agenda page to the calendar. any idea how hard that would be? anyone looking at this already? Jun 14 03:45:41 what about your network location? is it set to public or anything? Jun 14 03:46:02 doomsday, does the novacom device show up in device manager? Jun 14 03:46:07 rawdeadfish: I think that would be quite doable. Jun 14 03:46:18 tictac: wrt tidbits, you'll notice the "code" was removed, we don't want to run into copyright issues Jun 14 03:46:43 im on a private network Jun 14 03:46:43 summatusmentis: yes i seen that. i didnt know it was (C). my bad. Jun 14 03:46:59 rawdeadfish.. that would be a lovely idea.. Jun 14 03:47:01 well, technically anything written by palm is (c) Jun 14 03:47:05 let me plug in the usb to see if it shows up in teh device manager while under "Just charge" Jun 14 03:47:25 jblebrun: a couple images, a new view and controller, some understanding of the data storage behind the cal Jun 14 03:47:33 anyone knows if we can create additional plugin and attach to the current application like calendar from Palm?? Jun 14 03:47:53 rawdeadfish: The hardest part would be figuring out the data storage, but there are already plenty of examples in the app itself. Jun 14 03:47:56 in another way, extends the functionality of it? hopefully SDK from Palm is open enuf to do it. Jun 14 03:48:03 Would that JS/UIX have enough functionality to be useful? Jun 14 03:48:08 it's all javascript Jun 14 03:48:30 o0zeno0o: It's javascript with a *lot* of system hooks Jun 14 03:48:31 summatusmentis: that is the one thing that has me thinking i would be wasting my time Jun 14 03:48:37 doomsday, i think that's your problem, when the menu comes up for "media sync" "usb drive" or "just charge" - dont' select anything Jun 14 03:48:54 rawdeadfish: sorry, what is the one thing? Jun 14 03:49:08 i just plugged it in and its asking me to install device drivers for nova com Jun 14 03:49:11 should i let it? Jun 14 03:49:17 the copyright Jun 14 03:49:26 Did you run the driver msi yet? Jun 14 03:49:27 getting my pre first thing tomorrow woot! Jun 14 03:49:34 If you ran that it should auto-install the correct drivers. Jun 14 03:49:42 oh let me run that first Jun 14 03:50:16 anyone have any luck with the jvm? Jun 14 03:50:28 and running java apps in the browser Jun 14 03:50:33 i prefer not to alter copyrighted material, but the cal blows without an agenda view Jun 14 03:50:57 rawdeadfish: It's no problem modifying it for your own personal use Jun 14 03:50:59 rawdeadfish: Palm released their ROM thing publicly, any information gleaned from that is fair game. We don't want to be posting Palm's copyrighted code anywhere, and we don't want to be breaking any licensing/NDA/carrier agreements Jun 14 03:51:12 where is the driver msi located? Jun 14 03:51:17 i can't believe that palm released core pim functionality that was less then a treo/centro Jun 14 03:51:17 rawdeadfish: I think it'd be great if you do that and then palm adds it into the os. Jun 14 03:51:25 altering code on your own device is fine Jun 14 03:51:27 jvm: I tried from browser, but does not work.. have not got chance to look into harmony yet.. been away from Java for good 3 ysr Jun 14 03:51:27 as jblebrun said, if you're doing it for yourself, that's fine. Don't redistribute a modified version of Palm's app Jun 14 03:51:29 nvm found it Jun 14 03:52:12 I like playing with the gesture area leds :-) Jun 14 03:52:22 hmm even if i made an ssh client for this thing (somehow figuring out tcp connections), we still have no tab key... or even an "up" key... kind kills productivity in bash... Jun 14 03:52:44 EvanPro: improvise Jun 14 03:52:59 some little touchscreen tab and arrow buttons Jun 14 03:53:09 orange shift something can be used Jun 14 03:53:24 whoiswhois: yeah... we'd have to get clever. Jun 14 03:53:40 Orange key + gesture for directional buttons. Jun 14 03:53:43 i'm diging through the apps we have, trying to find a tcp / socket connection anywhere. Jun 14 03:53:46 Just like text editing Jun 14 03:53:49 orange+space Jun 14 03:54:01 EvanPro: you shouldnt write an ssh client Jun 14 03:54:05 you should write a terminal Jun 14 03:54:16 cause we alrady have an ssh client Jun 14 03:54:19 agreed Jun 14 03:54:30 true... Jun 14 03:54:34 A terminal emulator would be great. One that can be ran inside a card like everything else. Jun 14 03:54:49 what you can do is take a look at how some of the ajax based terminals work Jun 14 03:55:02 i already know how those work.. Jun 14 03:55:11 i'm a huge javascript nut.. been doing it for about 3 years now. Jun 14 03:55:13 i was going to say the same thing, as old school as it is...a terminal would solve a lot of problems in the short term. Jun 14 03:55:18 then why you need tcp/ip Jun 14 03:55:21 how easy would it be to port an existing web terminal? Jun 14 03:55:32 they are horrible, laggy, server-based, and inefficient... and being on evdo/1x would make it even worse. Jun 14 03:55:34 who needs to port anything? just use webshell on the palm. lol Jun 14 03:55:52 although, it doesnt work as well as it would on a normal browser as i have found. Jun 14 03:55:57 i need something that has enough code for me to reference for OS calls.. it has to be more "native" than the ajax terminal apps are.. those are horrible. Jun 14 03:56:12 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mressl/webshell/ Jun 14 03:56:14 Folks... need a little help with the novacom driver in Vista x32... I don't believe it's opening a port. Getting Err 10061. Disabled Antivirus, Windows Firewall, and Defender.. any thoughts? Surely I'm not the only one having htis problem. Jun 14 03:56:21 whoiswhois: yep Jun 14 03:56:30 is there a telnet app that has a gui? Jun 14 03:56:36 still, then you need a server Jun 14 03:56:45 whoiswhois: the palm could run it. Jun 14 03:56:48 whoiswhois: localhost? Jun 14 03:56:52 :P Jun 14 03:56:53 yes Jun 14 03:56:59 tictac: im gonna try that Jun 14 03:57:04 ripper: each shell would be a separate card Jun 14 03:57:14 whoiswhois: i would, but i dont really wanna make another howto tonight :P Jun 14 03:57:19 lol Jun 14 03:57:36 its either this or read the webos book i bought Jun 14 03:57:46 i think this would be better Jun 14 03:57:53 bbiaf. im going to tackle this ad-hoc network issue with the pre. Jun 14 03:58:00 the O'Reilly book is a little disappointing Jun 14 03:58:17 ill post my findings in tidbits until i can create a better page. Jun 14 03:58:19 if i make one, i would not want it to be dependant on a server side component Jun 14 03:58:21 its still a rought cut Jun 14 03:58:32 ideally, termianl would be done "properly" and not need a native install Jun 14 03:58:32 EvanPro: that wont be possible Jun 14 03:58:39 tictac: I have a tidbit for making the phone stop making those loud noises Jun 14 03:58:44 whoiswhois: do you know that? Jun 14 03:59:00 unless you figure out how to access the filesystem from the UI Jun 14 03:59:15 don't be so certain... they've got some major os hooks in this mojo stuff.. i think we just need to find the right ones. Jun 14 03:59:23 Is anyone else having novacom driver issues with Vista 32? I read about the Windows 7 issues... but I can't figure out why it won't open a port. Jun 14 03:59:34 that webshell looks good.. Jun 14 03:59:39 if it were purely just js and such, then we'd all just me making and hosting webapps and adding shortcuts to the launcher. Jun 14 03:59:41 im gonnna do webshell for now Jun 14 03:59:48 knigknog, neither can palm - so if you find out, please let them know! Jun 14 03:59:56 jblebrun: what is it? msg me. Jun 14 04:00:14 bpadalino... is there a discussion thread for this that you can point me to? Jun 14 04:00:24 haha Jun 14 04:00:26 the "monster thread" doesn't mention this. Jun 14 04:00:46 any chance making the camera take real video? Jun 14 04:00:53 nothing about the Vista 32 problems... just the Windows 7 issues. Jun 14 04:01:17 KnigKnog: i don't have one, other than someone from palm said in the channel that there are windows 7 issues Jun 14 04:01:22 that they are trying to figure out .. Jun 14 04:01:29 alright.. well i think i'm going back to my gps app then... someone will make a terminal app soon enough, i'm sure. Jun 14 04:01:31 Anyone figure out the file that controls the button LED?? Jun 14 04:01:38 but they lack some of the serious windows usb programming expertise and prefer linux/osx Jun 14 04:01:41 does the pre have python running? Jun 14 04:01:53 This universal search addon is so screwy. I just did a find-replace from twitter to amazon and now the amazon image is right aligned when twitter used to be centered. Jun 14 04:02:15 I had to work around a whole slew of win7 issues up until I just said fuck it and installed everything on XP to root my phone. Jun 14 04:02:18 bpadalino... I think you think that I'm asking about Windows 7... I ahve Vista 32 Jun 14 04:02:26 Is there a linux driver yet? Jun 14 04:02:43 o0zeno0o, i am working on my own .. but haven't gotten completely there yet Jun 14 04:03:00 KnigKnog: oh sorry about that Jun 14 04:03:07 no problem... any advice though? Jun 14 04:03:14 none at all - sorry :( Jun 14 04:03:19 i run windows in a vm and it's just xp .. and it works Jun 14 04:03:20 I've been half following all week, but haven't had time to do squat outside of work Jun 14 04:03:35 I'd be willing to help over the weekend though Jun 14 04:03:42 ripper.. be careful for trying to search some slow responding site.. it can really making the Pre unresponsive Jun 14 04:04:04 I had to remove some search from my list. :( Jun 14 04:04:17 o0zeno0o, do you know how to write c ? Jun 14 04:04:38 has anyone installed samba? Jun 14 04:05:43 yes Jun 14 04:06:06 have you got some time right now ? Jun 14 04:06:13 When I was in school, it was still a 3 credit course ;0p Jun 14 04:06:26 did u share just /media/internal? Jun 14 04:06:45 yeah, I have a few hours Jun 14 04:07:02 I need beer Jun 14 04:07:27 * EvanPro looks at beer on desk. Jun 14 04:07:40 webshell wont work so easily :( Jun 14 04:07:42 no python Jun 14 04:08:25 bpadalino yup Jun 14 04:08:33 beer! Jun 14 04:08:35 python - 2.5-1 - This is a package that sets up the default python. Jun 14 04:08:41 ? Jun 14 04:09:01 saw couple of py file in youtub and sprintNav Jun 14 04:09:03 ipkg-opt has it. Jun 14 04:09:04 tictac: what? Jun 14 04:09:13 how do i install it Jun 14 04:09:25 follow the instructions on the wiki... Jun 14 04:09:32 tictac: python24, python25 or python26 Jun 14 04:09:45 then ipkg-opt install python Jun 14 04:09:56 the description says 2.5 Jun 14 04:10:02 we compile the packages for 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 Jun 14 04:10:18 python is just an alias for python25 at the moment I think Jun 14 04:10:29 well ipkg-opt python list gets that oen. Jun 14 04:10:33 eno would know for sure Jun 14 04:10:44 ahh. so you run the ipkg repo too? geeze Jun 14 04:10:53 yep Jun 14 04:11:12 but eno does all the work :-) Jun 14 04:11:14 awesome. so if i need anything, ill forward the requests to you ;) Jun 14 04:11:23 So, is there anything special I need to do to get root permissions via sftp? Jun 14 04:11:28 tictac: we'll just give you commit access and you can do it yourself Jun 14 04:11:34 and already have openssl Jun 14 04:11:40 rwhitby: that would require _me_ to do work :) Jun 14 04:11:44 Haha Jun 14 04:11:45 tictac: exactly Jun 14 04:11:51 guys, we may be close to get webshell... tictac what do you say? Jun 14 04:11:57 You gotta earn your +v, dude :-P Jun 14 04:12:01 rwhitby: alright. well ill get with you if i need to commit anything. Jun 14 04:12:14 jblebrun: ... i already have it. Jun 14 04:12:17 Right Jun 14 04:12:19 Now earn it :-P Jun 14 04:12:32 jblebrun: did you see the post i made earlier? Jun 14 04:12:41 we (optware) welcome contributions Jun 14 04:12:41 diordna: do you really need me to do it for you? Jun 14 04:12:51 lol.. Jun 14 04:12:52 I'm just teasing you Jun 14 04:13:05 there's eno. he's done probably 80% or more of the packages in optware Jun 14 04:13:10 eno: im sure ill have some in the long run. Jun 14 04:13:13 i hope this dont slow my pre down too much Jun 14 04:13:23 tks.. Jun 14 04:13:33 catch me if you have any question regarding optware Jun 14 04:13:52 whoiswhois: webshell listens on one port. it does nothing in the background. it wont slow your pre down unless you have 100 connections to it. Jun 14 04:13:53 "wanna put OpenAFS/kerberos in it?" Jun 14 04:13:59 eno: sure thing. thanks. Jun 14 04:14:01 we can even do kernel modules as ipk's Jun 14 04:14:10 summatusmentis: ... dont tempt me! im a kerberos whore. Jun 14 04:14:11 tictac: great Jun 14 04:14:33 tictac: do it! Jun 14 04:14:37 eno: BTW, Palm was nice enough to leave /proc/config.gz in place Jun 14 04:14:40 Sweet. I <3 kerberos. Jun 14 04:14:53 hello all Jun 14 04:14:56 summatusmentis: if i do, it wont be at least 2 months. i have my lab to prep for. Jun 14 04:14:57 excellent Jun 14 04:15:02 hey dkelson Jun 14 04:15:10 hmm, optware needs contributors? Jun 14 04:15:17 tictac: well, that's faster than I'll get around to it. I don't have a device :) Jun 14 04:15:19 if i did that, id have to learn the sql that the pre uses. Jun 14 04:15:36 cause, of course, id use openldap Jun 14 04:15:41 yeah, the more the merrier Jun 14 04:16:20 chrisa: anyone who wants to port a package gets commit rights Jun 14 04:16:22 actually contribution to one optware feed usually benefit others Jun 14 04:16:53 I want to run Windows 7 on my Palm Pre via qemu Jun 14 04:16:54 yeah, ez-ipupdate works the same whether it's on a router, a NAS box or a phone. Jun 14 04:16:59 hah Jun 14 04:17:14 i tried win85 with bochs, no go. Jun 14 04:17:18 er 95 Jun 14 04:17:28 nebula, why no go? Jun 14 04:17:32 couldn't connect to x Jun 14 04:17:44 tried x, says it was started... no display Jun 14 04:17:48 actually bochs is what I meant instead of qemu Jun 14 04:18:00 if you wanna try it i have an image Jun 14 04:18:04 the process of adding packages to optware basically is http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/AddAPackageToOptware Jun 14 04:18:05 that should be ready for it Jun 14 04:18:32 bochs downloads perfectly into the deb chroot Jun 14 04:18:58 rwhitby: i might have a go at kmods for synology 0844 f/w Jun 14 04:19:28 Install file: "bin/fceux" as "/usr/local/bin/fceux" scons: done building targets. Jun 14 04:19:32 interesting! Jun 14 04:20:19 eno: looks like it's a matter of building .ipk files? Jun 14 04:20:25 summatusmentis: yep Jun 14 04:20:32 summatusmentis: right Jun 14 04:21:00 look at make/template.mk or make/hello.mk Jun 14 04:21:04 and the system we have here now on the pre allows other people to create feeds if they want, but we'd of course prefer they contribute directly to optware for stuff that is generic, so it can benefit the other 20 devices that use optware Jun 14 04:21:06 intriguing Jun 14 04:21:20 is openssl installed? Jun 14 04:21:34 most of it should be self-explanatory Jun 14 04:21:56 whois I saw it in pre Jun 14 04:22:08 eno: yeah,once I have free time/a working emulator, I'll do it Jun 14 04:22:17 http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make/hello.mk Jun 14 04:22:40 unelss asedeno_home beats me there Jun 14 04:23:01 I can't mess around much with my phone at least for today and much tomorrow.. got some issue yesterday wanna to go through and check everything I did on it before add more stuff in Jun 14 04:23:08 also need to back it up. :) Jun 14 04:23:13 what does the webos doctor combined with Palm Profile restore NOT restore (aside from stuff on /media/internal)? Jun 14 04:23:32 Doesn't restore linked contacts Jun 14 04:23:33 that would be a good thing to determine Jun 14 04:23:34 or bookmarks Jun 14 04:23:54 or launcher locations Jun 14 04:24:04 or roaming and other settings Jun 14 04:24:11 are bookmarks stored in the SQlite db? Jun 14 04:24:19 linked contacts not restoring is awful news, that took me at least a few hours Jun 14 04:24:20 pretty much seems to only restore apps and login info for synergy Jun 14 04:24:47 dkelson: I would assume so Jun 14 04:25:02 I would also assume linked contacts are in a SQLite db somewhere Jun 14 04:25:07 Yeah, it's annoying that it doesn't repopulate data back to google either. Like if I link an aim contact and a google contact, than it should update google with that persons aim name. Jun 14 04:25:10 but I don't know that for sure, as I don't have a device Jun 14 04:25:19 ripper: make a post about that stuff on the wiki. that is important. Jun 14 04:25:25 ripper: yeah, that is annoying Jun 14 04:25:43 ripper palm dev can say it for sure, but I think the link is local to Pre Jun 14 04:25:59 diordna: actually, the probably can't :-P Jun 14 04:26:01 I like it though.. nice.. hope it can be backup.. and restore.. anyone test that yet? Jun 14 04:26:02 You mean I have to quit being lazy and register for an account on the wiki. Jun 14 04:26:18 Those are just the things I remember, It's definately not a definitive list. Jun 14 04:26:18 you have to get accepted for write access also, iirc Jun 14 04:26:22 ripper: fine. ill throw it on tidbits until i can create it Jun 14 04:26:49 I' Jun 14 04:27:05 I'll register, I just didn't anticipate finding anything worth contributing. Guess I was wrong. Jun 14 04:27:11 Any input from Palm on if editing /etc/fstab will create upgrade issues? Jun 14 04:27:20 for the bind /var/opt bind mount? Jun 14 04:27:29 dkelson: thats easy enough to redo. Jun 14 04:27:55 but if the lvm changes, then the fstab will likely also if anything is added/deleted Jun 14 04:28:14 does anyone knows much about the Java-Harmony Pre has? how does it compare with J2ME or full Java? Jun 14 04:30:12 hmm, never played with a low power/embedded system like this that sleeps a lot. load is a bad indication of actual activity because when it wakes up there are lots of things in the run queue, even if just for a bit before it goes back to sleep. Jun 14 04:30:29 What's the rationale for setting up sudo vs just using su as part of the recommended Pre backdoor/optware procdure (not in the general Linux sense)? Jun 14 04:31:04 much better Jun 14 04:31:21 su is a pita. Jun 14 04:31:33 different strokes, i use su - dkelson Jun 14 04:32:14 Man, seems no matter what I do as soon as I touch the global search files I break them. I can't even replace twitter with amazon. Jun 14 04:32:32 dkelson: no feedback on the /etc/fstab Jun 14 04:32:45 ripper, make sure you back it up and careful I broke it so hard yesterday.. Jun 14 04:32:58 deb 64bit Jun 14 04:33:00 I'm well aware of what sudo is for, but what's the specific gain of sudo as part of our procedure? I saw at least one person complain of the added complexity on the precrentral ROM forum thread. Jun 14 04:33:07 ok, so i got the web part of webshell to work Jun 14 04:33:11 is there any info that cant be restored by a sycn after using the webOS Doctor? Jun 14 04:33:12 Yeah, I have backups that I've been repeatedly restoring for those files Jun 14 04:33:24 it dont work right though :( Jun 14 04:33:28 rwhitby, ? re fstab? Jun 14 04:33:32 whoiswhois: we want the shell part working though :) Jun 14 04:33:34 dkelson: no feedback from palm Jun 14 04:33:39 ah ok Jun 14 04:33:40 you cant have everything Jun 14 04:33:44 can we install webmin on this thing yet lol Jun 14 04:33:57 seriously mib? Jun 14 04:34:05 i know everyone here loves linux and loves using things like vi, but what would it take to setup a smb or ftp server so that we can use a more friendly editor like dreamweaver or html-kit to edit these js files? Jun 14 04:34:22 anyone know how to stop auto capitalization? it buggs the crap outta me Jun 14 04:34:23 Mogren: Use SCP for that. Jun 14 04:34:23 oh sweet Jun 14 04:34:26 it has its on keyboard Jun 14 04:34:28 on screen Jun 14 04:34:35 http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access Jun 14 04:34:43 Mogren: ipkg-opt install samba vsftpd Jun 14 04:34:49 fuck Jun 14 04:34:52 ssh not found :( Jun 14 04:34:58 ok, i can fix this though Jun 14 04:35:00 raw I just type the 1st character the press backspc. :) Jun 14 04:35:01 whats the ssh client Jun 14 04:35:09 dropbear or openssh Jun 14 04:35:21 /opt/bin/ssh for both Jun 14 04:35:30 k Jun 14 04:35:46 use openssh though Jun 14 04:35:54 anyone managed to bridge eth0 with ppp0 Jun 14 04:36:07 diordna: excellent, didn't notice that! yeah! learned something new. Jun 14 04:36:11 mib_0m6nnc: why would you want to? Jun 14 04:36:16 I am having an issue with SFTP access though, anyone figure out how to do SFTP with root permissions? Jun 14 04:36:42 mib_0m6nnc: as per the /topic please don't discuss tethering in this channel Jun 14 04:36:54 ripper: i was trying earlier, no success Jun 14 04:37:09 came close using sshfs though Jun 14 04:37:14 isn't there an SFTP config something or other? Jun 14 04:37:21 normally ftp doesn't allow root login Jun 14 04:37:42 ripper: do you have ssh keys installed? Jun 14 04:38:20 nope, I just followed the steps in the wiki Jun 14 04:38:35 rwhitby, is there a dyndns client in the optware feed? Jun 14 04:38:40 dkelson: many Jun 14 04:38:50 Do you install keys and generate a key for root? Jun 14 04:38:51 ez-ipupdate, noip, .... Jun 14 04:39:04 anyone knows if there is a MIB for this Pre? Jun 14 04:39:14 MIB? Jun 14 04:39:20 we can drop a script in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/ to update a dnydns hostname when the EVDO IP changes Jun 14 04:39:20 men in black? Jun 14 04:39:32 diordna, SNMP? Jun 14 04:39:34 for snmp.. otherwise, I can just use net-snmp library for linux server Jun 14 04:39:36 yah.. Jun 14 04:39:56 sshfs has a commandline option to use a custom ssh command, e.g. "sudo ssh" rather than just "ssh", which should work (and seemed to mount successfully for me, but i couldn't access it for some reason, kept getting permission denied) Jun 14 04:40:06 I don't know anything about snmp, sorry Jun 14 04:40:07 http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7636/unknown20091306141631.png can the launcher text on the upper left be changed on the fly? Jun 14 04:40:12 AFAIK there is no SNMP daemon running on it (not surprising) Jun 14 04:40:26 maybe assign a different name to each page? Jun 14 04:40:43 diordna: munin-node should run, and openwrt have a script-only version of it Jun 14 04:41:02 can anyone help me troubleshoot why i cant connect to my pre through winscp after enabling optware? Jun 14 04:41:19 diordna: mrtg is in optware too Jun 14 04:41:26 Brenner14: Did you follow this page too? http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access Jun 14 04:41:53 That should give you access, but not with root permissions so you can't edit any files, just view. Jun 14 04:41:54 no Jun 14 04:42:01 dkelson: regarding sudo vs su, Ubuntu has taught lots of people about sudo, so it's best for newbies Jun 14 04:42:02 dkelson, i've got ez-ipupdate running as daemon and it is light (~500k reported) Jun 14 04:42:04 ripper: let me know if you figure out how to get edit permissions Jun 14 04:42:11 how can i view and edit? Jun 14 04:42:32 rwhitby: is there a web search of optware? Jun 14 04:42:34 Not sure. I'm trying to figure out a good way. Jun 14 04:42:37 or a list of all the packages even? Jun 14 04:42:39 BTW, the sed to dropbearmulti on the sftp page should not be required any more, since eno updated the dropbear package Jun 14 04:42:48 dkelson, stay away from the dyndns (think that was the first in the list) because it has hella deps. Jun 14 04:42:51 summatusmentis: ipkg-opt list Jun 14 04:43:01 if you just want to work on an individual homebrew app you can just chmod 777 on that folder Jun 14 04:43:04 rwhitby: no device :) Jun 14 04:43:14 that will get you read/write Jun 14 04:43:14 dreadchicken, I'd rather not run a daemon if at all possible. My pre already using 61MB swap. Jun 14 04:43:32 ez-ipupdate runs fine from cron as well. Jun 14 04:43:42 and has a cache file so it's not transmitting all the time. Jun 14 04:43:43 or ip-up Jun 14 04:43:45 wow... dkilson.. that is what I was wondering when trying to track CPU/memory usage and swap on this phone overtime Jun 14 04:43:59 i'm doing it now Jun 14 04:44:00 how do i need to be logged in if i'm trying to edit the universal search or something like that? Jun 14 04:44:19 summatusmentis: look at http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs05q1armel/cross/unstable/ Jun 14 04:44:28 1371895899,09.06.13.23.10,88,144,-91718,10.18,5.13,3.43 Jun 14 04:44:28 1371895899,09.06.13.23.22,87,144,-338203,5.70,4.62,3.33 Jun 14 04:44:28 1371895899,09.06.13.23.36,87,144,-109531,3.25,4.13,3.24 Jun 14 04:44:31 wget the Package file, and grep it Jun 14 04:44:42 Brenner14: You can only log in using the new user you created. But it won't have root permissions to edit any files. Jun 14 04:44:44 eno: ah, ok thanks Jun 14 04:44:52 3 records out of my collected data. Jun 14 04:44:57 so how are people editing them? through telnet? Jun 14 04:45:07 I'm still waiting for someone to install an authorized_keys file and confirm root access using ssh keys ... Jun 14 04:45:07 ssh using vi Jun 14 04:45:18 I think a running ez-ipupdate from /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/ would be better for memory usage Jun 14 04:45:20 and theres no windows alternative? Jun 14 04:45:29 i'm in process of adding memory and actual cpu stats. also will do wifi on/off, gps on/off Jun 14 04:45:31 download putty Jun 14 04:45:37 for ssh access Jun 14 04:45:46 WinSCP is no good? Jun 14 04:45:52 yes, I put in authorized_keys, and works well for my normal user account, and then use sudo. Jun 14 04:46:10 vandi: did it work for root access? Jun 14 04:46:14 i'm curious if the other clients are as small/smaller than ez-update. Jun 14 04:46:33 I think WinSCP has a terminal but I'm not sure. I ment for editing the files in command line over ssh Jun 14 04:46:38 rwhitby, my webos-sshenabler disallows direct root logins Jun 14 04:46:40 whare are those dreadchicken? Jun 14 04:46:41 haha Jun 14 04:46:42 it works Jun 14 04:46:44 'night all Jun 14 04:46:44 the -w switch Jun 14 04:46:45 i cant connect at all through winscp Jun 14 04:46:49 it does have a terminal Jun 14 04:46:49 Does it compile for you? Jun 14 04:46:52 TERMINAL PARTY Jun 14 04:46:53 FYI, http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/Packages has outdated info about optware packages Jun 14 04:46:58 diordna, in optware. Jun 14 04:47:12 are there any html/css/javascript gurus here? Jun 14 04:47:18 dkelson: can we allow root with ssh keys? Jun 14 04:47:23 need to make webshell look nice on the pre Jun 14 04:47:31 rwhitby, I don't see why not Jun 14 04:47:43 brenner14, you need an actual terminal, like putty Jun 14 04:47:53 You'd have to change the -w switch and make sure to disable password login. Jun 14 04:47:58 and can we add -i eth0, and have instructions for people to remove it if the want to open up to evdo? Jun 14 04:47:58 personal preference. i never do remote root. Jun 14 04:48:00 i think winscp lets you execute some commands, but you can't use an editor like vi Jun 14 04:48:01 ok dmr, i'll try that, thanks Jun 14 04:48:09 rwhitby, sure Jun 14 04:48:20 screen isn't in optware by chance, is it? Jun 14 04:48:25 i'm just troubled because i can't even connect through WinSCP at all Jun 14 04:48:26 ripper: I don't think it allows empty password access for root Jun 14 04:48:33 EvanPro, screen is in stock webos Jun 14 04:48:35 screen is on the box EvanPro iirc Jun 14 04:48:38 oh shi... lol Jun 14 04:48:38 EvanPro: sure is Jun 14 04:48:42 Oh okay, I'd hope not but I wasn't sure. Jun 14 04:48:48 EvanPro: that was one of the first packages :-) Jun 14 04:48:50 shoulda looked before asking.. sorry lol Jun 14 04:49:08 * EvanPro facepalm Jun 14 04:49:15 brenner14, try setting the sftp-server option to default instead of the text that's on the wiki Jun 14 04:49:19 EvanPro: webshell works great Jun 14 04:49:31 in WinSCP? Jun 14 04:49:42 yep Jun 14 04:49:54 whois cool... care to update wiki? Jun 14 04:50:00 whoiswhois: right on... must not be as crappy as the ajaxterm things and stuff i played with. Jun 14 04:50:22 sure, but someone tell me how to run a command when the device starts up Jun 14 04:50:27 when i did that i got access as the user i created (e.g. no root access, but still able to read and modify the files/folders i had ownership of) Jun 14 04:51:18 whoiswhois, dkelson is excellent with native upstart. Jun 14 04:51:55 dkelson: ? Jun 14 04:52:14 i just need to add a simple command Jun 14 04:52:33 woo frickin' whoo. i just loaded mario brothers native. Jun 14 04:52:48 it's slow as shit, but who cares! Jun 14 04:52:58 nebula: nice Jun 14 04:53:06 nebula: rocking Jun 14 04:53:14 so you gotta compile the app from source Jun 14 04:53:21 the deb file wont work Jun 14 04:53:21 nebula: remember, instructions before youtube ;-) Jun 14 04:53:24 yeah Jun 14 04:53:25 lol Jun 14 04:53:29 dmr, no luck Jun 14 04:53:35 the port should be 222, yea? Jun 14 04:53:37 i want keys working first Jun 14 04:53:46 yep, hmm Jun 14 04:53:49 crap. instead of less control-alt-delete i accidentally typed it. Jun 14 04:53:53 soab. Jun 14 04:53:56 not sure what's wrong then Jun 14 04:54:14 rwhitby: so have have you been working on today? Jun 14 04:54:17 where do i put in the username/password in putty? Jun 14 04:54:19 what kind of error are you getting? Jun 14 04:54:33 no error just cant connect Jun 14 04:54:42 Brenner: when you log in, it will prompt you. Jun 14 04:54:58 wireless89: finding out from palm how our /opt can stay untouched Jun 14 04:55:00 in putty you ssh in, so use "ssh [user]@[ip] -p 222" Jun 14 04:55:17 i must have done something wrong then because putty doesn't work either... Jun 14 04:55:20 rwhitby: any new news from that so far? Jun 14 04:55:25 this is the second time i did it thougj, idk what's wrong Jun 14 04:55:42 they just time out Jun 14 04:55:51 wireless89: see the latest instructions Jun 14 04:55:56 we use /var/opt now Jun 14 04:56:07 rwhitby: ah true, checking wiki now Jun 14 04:56:31 I modified webos-sshenabler to only allow port 222 over a WiFI connection by default with a comment inside on how to open it up for EVDO access as well. Jun 14 04:56:43 to see the new script run: wget -qO - http://blogs.gurulabs.com/dax/webos-sshenabler Jun 14 04:56:56 i want to use webOS doctor to start from scratch out of fear i messed something up the first time Jun 14 04:57:02 what will i lose that cannot be restored? Jun 14 04:57:32 Brenner14, I asked that same question (basically) about 10 mins ago Jun 14 04:57:35 has anyone try to reset the phone and completely remove all changes? Jun 14 04:57:36 linked contacts, anything in the media/internal folder, some settings i think Jun 14 04:58:48 Has anyone made any progress on a webos terminal app on the Pre itself? Jun 14 04:59:13 dvarnes: how is that bug fix going? Jun 14 04:59:18 s/bug/buzz/ Jun 14 04:59:38 heh, rsync stock as well...well done gentlemen. Jun 14 05:00:30 dkelson: whoiswhois got webshell running Jun 14 05:00:38 dkelson: i was going to, but then it was decided it'd be easier to just use webshell.. so now i'm working on my gps app again. Jun 14 05:00:50 whoiswhois: got a wiki page? Jun 14 05:00:50 (which is almost done, i think) Jun 14 05:01:24 to get write access to the rest of the folders for applications i just did a change of ownership to my account with the -R switch and it works fine Jun 14 05:01:29 one sec Jun 14 05:01:36 gotta send out a screenshot to a friend Jun 14 05:01:39 he dont believe me Jun 14 05:01:45 how do i take a screen shot Jun 14 05:01:53 whoiswhois: tell him to use the wiki page to do it himself ;-) Jun 14 05:01:55 orange + sym + p Jun 14 05:02:48 EvanPro, you ever find gps info from commandline? Jun 14 05:03:05 not from command line, but i've got a working js function. Jun 14 05:03:39 rwhitby: i still gotta modify webshell so it looks nice on the pre Jun 14 05:03:46 should i post a wiki page any way Jun 14 05:04:02 yes Jun 14 05:04:04 you bet you should Jun 14 05:04:13 function before form Jun 14 05:04:20 lol Jun 14 05:05:08 i love this phone Jun 14 05:05:15 This is great Jun 14 05:05:40 * wireless89 feels left out for not having a pre, guesses rwhitby does too Jun 14 05:05:46 you bet Jun 14 05:05:51 a terminal with pinch scrolling :-D Jun 14 05:05:54 errr Jun 14 05:05:55 pinch zooming Jun 14 05:06:41 no kidding pinching support? Jun 14 05:06:49 well sure, it's just a web page :-) Jun 14 05:07:09 does the webshell require a webserver running on the pre? Jun 14 05:07:18 does anyone perform a full reset on the phone yet? webosdoctor or just from the full reset option? Jun 14 05:07:36 diordna: i did webdoctor earlier Jun 14 05:07:41 dkelson: it comes with a custom webserver made specifically to serve your shell. It's written in python. Jun 14 05:07:52 dkelson: it runs it's own built-in Jun 14 05:08:06 any special thing I need to know?? or gotchas? Jun 14 05:08:09 this works surprisingly well.... Jun 14 05:08:27 diordna: note my tidbits page (at the very bottom) for known things that dont transfer over. Jun 14 05:08:28 tictac I have to do it so I can convert to ipk-opt Jun 14 05:08:36 tictatidbits Jun 14 05:08:44 * ripper gives up on trying to add stuff to universal search. Jun 14 05:08:46 you dont have to, but its easier. Jun 14 05:08:54 jblebrun: indeed. Jun 14 05:09:07 ripper: i'll help you with that once i'm done with this gps app. Jun 14 05:09:28 well back to study i go, good luck with your respective projects :-) Jun 14 05:09:36 * tictac goes back to determining this wifi issue. Jun 14 05:09:36 I'm wondering if it's because I've been trying to edit the files in nano and gedit cause vi intimidates me. Jun 14 05:09:59 I've had to restore the backed up origional files so many times I've scripted it to save time. Jun 14 05:10:02 ripper: at least you dont have to remote into your pre using novaproxy in RAW mode. its horrible. Jun 14 05:10:13 hrmm .. Jun 14 05:10:25 ripper: nano/vim/vi/etc just dont work. Jun 14 05:10:37 * rwhitby enjoys the sense of comraderie and helping each other out - the opposite of some hacking "communities" ... Jun 14 05:10:51 bbiaf Jun 14 05:11:03 tictac: in raw mode? Or for the global search files? Jun 14 05:11:13 It would be really nice to have a "native" webos terminal app Jun 14 05:11:17 What do you edit in? Jun 14 05:11:36 I know it's been said several times on the forums already, but you guys rock and thanks for all the coolness Jun 14 05:11:52 ripper: i mean accessing the pre over usb using novaproxy which only works with putty in RAW mode Jun 14 05:12:01 argh Jun 14 05:12:07 wizkd: it's mostly me that rocks, the rest are just here :-P (kidding, I'm not doing much at all) Jun 14 05:12:11 now suddenly the address bar wants to style my keystrokes Jun 14 05:12:16 That sucks. How can you edit anything if no editors work? Jun 14 05:12:20 ripper: i dont use wifi due to hte ad-hoc issue that im currently working on fixing. Jun 14 05:12:25 dkelson: can we use -g instead of -w by default on dropbear? Jun 14 05:12:31 ripper: rm and cat Jun 14 05:12:34 * EvanPro agrees with rwhitby... this is a pretty nice community we've got going on here. Jun 14 05:12:37 ok, bed for real this time :) Jun 14 05:12:45 also, rwhitby++ Jun 14 05:13:24 Amen to that. This is the first "hacking" community where I haven't been too intimidated to try to participate. Jun 14 05:13:54 rwhitby, sure, I'll update the script Jun 14 05:14:13 how about we mark the sudo portions optional in the procedure as well? Jun 14 05:14:14 ripper... so excited... :) Jun 14 05:14:19 dkelson: thx - then people can just add keys and it works out of the box Jun 14 05:14:38 dkelson: sudo, or add ssh keys for root Jun 14 05:14:58 or su - Jun 14 05:15:01 it'd be good to teach people about ssh keys as part of this ... Jun 14 05:15:13 increase the security of the internet as a whole ... Jun 14 05:15:31 rite on.. rwhitby Jun 14 05:15:43 heh Jun 14 05:15:57 ok, so Jun 14 05:16:11 rwhitby, the webos-sshenable script is updated to use -g Jun 14 05:16:12 anyone know how to make something launch when the phone launches Jun 14 05:16:23 whoiswhois, me Jun 14 05:16:28 yay Jun 14 05:16:28 how Jun 14 05:16:49 a Upstart script in /etc/event.d/ Jun 14 05:16:50 should we start a pre ipkg repo? Jun 14 05:17:07 k Jun 14 05:17:24 dreadchicken: eno is going to do that Jun 14 05:17:43 for any pre-specific things - the current feed will work for most things Jun 14 05:17:43 is your requirement a "run once" or "run and restart if it dies" Jun 14 05:17:48 just a question, why no discussion about tethering here? Jun 14 05:18:02 bo904: Sprint has no plan available for which tethering meets the TOS Jun 14 05:19:07 bo904: since Sprint is the only carrier, if we violate that, then Sprint complains to Palm, and Palm has to react against us. We don't want that. Jun 14 05:19:13 so we need to wait until another carrier that does offer tethering to talk about it? Jun 14 05:19:28 sure Jun 14 05:19:47 hopefully that will be soon (and in .au) Jun 14 05:19:54 rwhitby: seems like there'd be something in the tos that says you can't modify the phone (like rooting it) too? i didn't read it... just guessing? Jun 14 05:20:23 Mogren: all rooting info was gained without clicking through any license Jun 14 05:21:00 rwhitby: actually, there is a license you click through when you purchase the phone. the sprint employee agrees to it for you when you purchase the phone through them. Jun 14 05:21:12 i had to click agree earlier when i ran the webDoctor. Jun 14 05:21:13 Palm have known about the rooting, are in this channel, and have not complained. They have complained about tethering talk and distributing copyrighted code. You make a judgement about that :-) Jun 14 05:21:27 ill have to figure a way to transfer it to the web for reading. Jun 14 05:21:35 tictac: I've done neither, and I knew enough to root the phone from the public webOS doctor files. Jun 14 05:21:44 (as did others) Jun 14 05:21:57 rwhitby: well obviously. you dont have a phone :) Jun 14 05:22:02 :-) Jun 14 05:22:09 There are two Linux kernel features that could really help memory usage on the Pre. Jun 14 05:22:13 way to rub it in...sheesh thats harsh :P Jun 14 05:22:34 FYI: from http://www.sprintpcs.com/common/popups/popLegalTermsPrivacy.html: We can, without notice, suspend or terminate any Service at any time for any reason, including, but not limited to: (i) modifying a Device from its manufacturer specifications Jun 14 05:22:34 rite on tictac Jun 14 05:22:38 Bales: thx for the thought Jun 14 05:22:40 so, can't you just figure out how to tether your imaginary webOS doctor files, not the actual phone? :P Jun 14 05:22:51 I don't think Palm is using either at the moment. Linux KSM (dynamic page sharing) and Linux compcache (memory compression). Jun 14 05:23:12 Mogren: I could, but I know that would upset Palm, and I don't want to do that. Jun 14 05:23:20 i cant create a new page on the wiki Jun 14 05:25:05 whoiswhois: cause you aren't leet. ;) Jun 14 05:25:11 :( Jun 14 05:25:22 ur leet isnt very l33t Jun 14 05:25:48 * rwhitby bbl Jun 14 05:30:33 can we post this link from Palm for WebOS Doctor? Jun 14 05:30:34 http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/common/article/32759_en.html Jun 14 05:31:22 OK, just finished writing the documentation to get nintendo games without webos Jun 14 05:31:25 http://predev.wikidot.com/nintendo Jun 14 05:32:18 ok, now make them within webos :) Jun 14 05:32:22 nice Jun 14 05:32:26 Awesome. Jun 14 05:34:27 Now if only we could have USB OTG, my life would be complete. Jun 14 05:35:11 apparently omap may be able to handle that Jun 14 05:35:12 crossing finger waiting for the Dr. to run.. nothing yet. :( Jun 14 05:35:18 we'd just have to figure out how to enable it Jun 14 05:35:38 Yeah.. simple, right? =P Jun 14 05:36:10 timkedojeh: ha :) It might be doable through some kernel hacking? Jun 14 05:36:14 I don't actually know Jun 14 05:36:34 and we should be getting the kernel tree released at some point Jun 14 05:36:49 http://predev.wikidot.com/global-search-addons-collection <- this is really exciting, you guys don't have any idea Jun 14 05:36:53 hrm, proving to be a pain in the ass to map keys though Jun 14 05:36:56 not sure how Jun 14 05:37:46 summatusmentis: not everything in there works perfectly Jun 14 05:38:31 if some search site that slow to respond, it could make your phone hanging with an white bg browser. :) Jun 14 05:38:32 diordna: well, I expect it will be december when I can get a pre :) Jun 14 05:38:53 I really need to sleep Jun 14 05:39:03 this is the third time I've said that. Good night all Jun 14 05:39:09 Night. Jun 14 05:39:12 l8r Jun 14 05:39:20 wtf is "start on stopped finish" Jun 14 05:39:35 upstart Jun 14 05:39:50 yes Jun 14 05:39:53 but wats it mean Jun 14 05:40:20 dio: vol up Jun 14 05:40:38 Can anyone who has ssh keys working for root login help me out? I catted my public key to /var/home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys but it still prompts for a password when trying to ssh root@pre. Is there something else I need to do? Jun 14 05:41:06 diordna, The WebOS doctor link is http://www.palm.com/ROM Jun 14 05:41:19 ripper: you usually need to change the permissions of .ssh and .ssh/authorized_keys to be owner-read-only (400) Jun 14 05:41:39 okay, I had them at 600, but I'll try that Jun 14 05:42:24 the more i dig into mojo, the more i'm liking it... it's really well put together. Jun 14 05:42:37 dkelson: yes. I'm looking for how to install. trying to redo my phone.. Jun 14 05:43:10 \quit Jun 14 05:43:12 oops Jun 14 05:43:18 long night Jun 14 05:43:19 *keyboard cat* Jun 14 05:43:23 n00b Jun 14 05:43:26 ;0p Jun 14 05:45:07 Has anyone in here had any issues syncing mail with a standard Gmail account? Jun 14 05:45:38 what issues are you having Jun 14 05:45:48 I wish WebOS didn't running everything as root. That is Windows95/98 style security or WinXP with Administrator rights. Jun 14 05:45:53 The initial mail import immediately after configuring the account works fine. Jun 14 05:46:20 But any subsequent sync doesn't work, and just results in a little caution-yellow-triangle symbol next to the unread count. Jun 14 05:46:31 dkelson: how do i get my upstart script to run after the webos-sshenabler Jun 14 05:46:45 jblebrun: gmail works great for me.. i was worried at first cause i thought it was going to try to sync all 5200 emails in my inbox.. but it was smart enough to only get recent ones. Jun 14 05:47:14 Changing permissions to 400 didn't fix it. Anyone know if I'm missing anything trying to setup SSH keys. Changed dropbear to run with -g instead of -w and cat my public key into /var/home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Jun 14 05:47:32 but it still asks for a password when I ssh root@pre Jun 14 05:48:24 whoiswhois, you probably just want the same two lines that the webos-sshenabler has "start on..." and "stop on...." Jun 14 05:48:45 i need to make sure webos-sshenabler runs first Jun 14 05:48:58 can't they both start at the same time? Jun 14 05:49:14 no Jun 14 05:49:32 the terminal uses ssh Jun 14 05:49:34 evanpro: Yeah, it seems like only a tiny number of people are having this issue. It would be nice if I could get more feedback back then "yellow triangle thing". /var/log/messages wasn't very helpful, either. Jun 14 05:49:37 cause the special python webserver is going to try to establish a connection? Jun 14 05:49:39 it ssh's into the machine Jun 14 05:49:53 it will ssh into that machine the instant it starts? Jun 14 05:49:59 good point Jun 14 05:50:01 whoiswhois: but not until you try to connect via the web, right? Jun 14 05:50:01 "the machine" Jun 14 05:50:14 just realized that jblebrun Jun 14 05:50:17 ok guess it dont matter Jun 14 05:50:20 my bad Jun 14 05:50:31 hrmm .. Jun 14 05:50:37 * jblebrun drinks more wine. Jun 14 05:51:00 good call Jun 14 05:51:08 Sargun, your doom trick. Was it using X? How did it draw on the screen? Jun 14 05:51:14 directfb Jun 14 05:51:31 back at last Jun 14 05:51:33 sdl via directfb Jun 14 05:51:47 directfb is what the palm gui uses too? Jun 14 05:52:04 wx widgets i believe is what palm is using Jun 14 05:52:15 no Jun 14 05:52:27 holy fuckin' shit: http://mypalmpre.homelinux.com:880/ Jun 14 05:52:36 sargun: nice Jun 14 05:52:43 dkelson, no, they use the frame buffer directly via luna Jun 14 05:52:47 jblebrun, not mine Jun 14 05:52:53 Gennadiy Shafranovich Jun 14 05:53:00 Quick, everyone DDoS his phone Jun 14 05:53:01 ;-) Jun 14 05:53:12 yeah, it only takes about 20 lines of code to open a framebuffer and muck with it Jun 14 05:53:19 nebula, you there Jun 14 05:53:31 I'm still working on my location hack Jun 14 05:53:44 one of those linux things where the native interface is so easy it almost is a waste of time using a higher level protocol (like libusb) Jun 14 05:53:50 er higher level api i mean Jun 14 05:53:50 Sargun: i got nintendo workin Jun 14 05:53:57 nebula, fuck yeah Jun 14 05:54:05 you got windows 95 installed on the pre? Jun 14 05:54:10 thats next Jun 14 05:54:11 LOL Jun 14 05:54:22 here's the video for nintendo Jun 14 05:54:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9uoD2byXQA Jun 14 05:55:12 geist, If would be nice to have more usable memory on my Pre. If only the kernel used KSM aka the dynamic page sharing driver and compcache (memory compression). Jun 14 05:55:13 haha Jun 14 05:55:26 good game choice, nebula. Jun 14 05:55:30 hah nice choice of games Jun 14 05:55:34 Without an emulator? Jun 14 05:55:42 dkelson: that'd probably destroy battery life Jun 14 05:55:44 meaning no classic emulator Jun 14 05:55:52 Ohhhh Jun 14 05:55:56 should have rephrased it, camera shy Jun 14 05:56:26 geist, they can be used independently or concurrently. Jun 14 05:56:32 which NES emu are you using there? Jun 14 05:56:46 KSM at least should be very battery friendly. It only scans memory on a given interval. Jun 14 05:56:47 Can you flip the screen orientation to landscape? Jun 14 05:56:53 I think I might sleep with my pre tonight :-| Jun 14 05:57:00 geist, so, the reason for not expanding is there is only one mmc interface? Jun 14 05:57:19 geist schools me on the lack of wx on the pre :( Jun 14 05:57:33 Sargun: i cannot comment on why we designed it any one way Jun 14 05:57:39 and i dont know anyway Jun 14 05:57:50 that's marketing, product design, etc Jun 14 05:58:19 geist, ah, so there wasn't a technical reason Jun 14 05:58:28 geist, i'm getting the (i think) idle or nop commands coming back from the pre in usb ... so about every half second to 1 second, sends back a 61 byte packet Jun 14 05:58:47 Sargun: why do you keep trying to derive meaning from it? keep it up and i'll stop answering at all Jun 14 05:58:54 i'm merely saying 'no comment' Jun 14 05:59:30 geist, sorry. Jun 14 06:00:06 i will not answer anything as to why a pre is a pre Jun 14 06:00:20 huh? Jun 14 06:00:36 to do that may imply future direction of product design Jun 14 06:00:41 ah.... Jun 14 06:00:50 geist, there was some big I/O performance bug in the 2.6 kernels that wasn't fixed until recently. Jun 14 06:00:56 and i've been around long enough to know that folks take stuff *wayy* too far Jun 14 06:01:05 I was thinking you meant like, why you guys chose 2.6.24 vs. 2.6.23 Jun 14 06:01:17 geist, as in the community, or corporate? Jun 14 06:01:25 community Jun 14 06:01:44 ah Jun 14 06:01:45 yeah Jun 14 06:01:52 i have no idea if it'll show up on some site the next day 'palm confirms that blahblah' Jun 14 06:02:02 or "people" in general ;0p Jun 14 06:02:08 do you really think our community is that bad/ Jun 14 06:02:09 geist. False alarm. I found the details. performance regression began with the Linux 2.6.26 kernel and ended with the Linux 2.6.29. So the Pre's kernel is not effected. Jun 14 06:02:18 dkelson: cool Jun 14 06:02:35 geist, I mean, I've been in other small hacking communities (xbox, so on), and I've seen it Jun 14 06:02:59 but, I'd like to hope that webos-internals is a tiny bit better Jun 14 06:03:11 me too, but i assume the worst Jun 14 06:03:27 hmm...im thinking webshell isnt an acceptable solution Jun 14 06:03:34 webos-internals could be, but the hundreds of lurkers waiting to send a tip to engadget may not be Jun 14 06:03:38 its using 80% of the cpu Jun 14 06:03:39 technically, it's an open channel... Jun 14 06:03:52 ripper: that was my thought, exactly. Jun 14 06:04:03 The damn AP could be in here Jun 14 06:04:10 grar Jun 14 06:04:12 AP Jun 14 06:04:15 ripper, I haven't seen any of the stuff here prematurely leaked... Jun 14 06:04:32 but then again, we're increasing at a logarithmic rate Jun 14 06:05:05 er, our size will increase at a logarithmic rat. Jun 14 06:05:06 rate Jun 14 06:05:11 or continue to. Jun 14 06:05:13 god, I'm tired Jun 14 06:05:17 I should shut up. Jun 14 06:05:23 logarithmic rat Jun 14 06:05:25 LOL Jun 14 06:05:28 that's a band name for ya Jun 14 06:05:30 mental image FTW Jun 14 06:05:43 ahh poo. my first shot at my gps app is giving a blank screen. Jun 14 06:07:00 would be nice to have the debugging tools of the sdk :( Jun 14 06:09:42 weird Jun 14 06:16:21 Well irssi works in pre Jun 14 06:17:38 grats Jun 14 06:17:59 i always thought a good name for a punk song would be "what did you say? my eye is on fire" Jun 14 06:18:10 i can imagine it being about 15 seconds long ... repeating the phrase a couple of times Jun 14 06:18:46 do we have any sort of timeline for the sdk becoming available? Jun 14 06:19:12 MY EYES IS IN FIYA Jun 14 06:19:17 Mogren: no Jun 14 06:19:31 Mogren: sometime in the future. Jun 14 06:19:38 20 minutes into the future Jun 14 06:19:38 Mogren, later. Jun 14 06:19:42 geist, FIYA? Jun 14 06:19:45 O RLY? Jun 14 06:20:12 quick post it everywhere, sdk confirmed release in 20 mins! :P Jun 14 06:20:21 "PALM SAYS SDK TO BE RELEASED IN 20 MINUTES" Jun 14 06:20:25 lol Jun 14 06:20:27 no, i didn't say that Jun 14 06:20:36 i said it would be 20 minutes into the future Jun 14 06:20:38 ha Jun 14 06:20:51 * Sargun smacks geist upside the head. Jun 14 06:20:52 in 20 minutes, I can stop using the beta SDK Jun 14 06:20:58 and either yu catch the reference, or you missed a fantastic show Jun 14 06:20:58 "PALM SAYS SDK TO MUCK WITH TIME-SPACE CONTINUUM" Jun 14 06:21:06 and he didn't say which timezone either Jun 14 06:21:07 wizkd, you have access to the (beta) sdk? Jun 14 06:21:19 couldn't say ;) Jun 14 06:21:21 rwhitby, "in 20 minutes" is exclusive of time zone. Jun 14 06:21:34 geist, the latter. Jun 14 06:21:47 google it Jun 14 06:22:16 Information No results found for "MY EYES IS IN FIYA". Jun 14 06:22:24 grrr... still getting a blank screen on my app.. like it doesn't know which scene to open. Jun 14 06:22:24 Jun 14 06:22:36 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.gentoo%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=NTj&q=FIYA&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g%3Ap3g7 Jun 14 06:22:36 not fair geist that movie came out the year i was born Jun 14 06:22:45 Mogren: tv show Jun 14 06:22:57 I have no idea what you're talking about. Jun 14 06:23:06 which you would if you'd JFGI Jun 14 06:23:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20_Minutes_into_the_Future Jun 14 06:23:38 Yeah, that'd be three years before I was born. Jun 14 06:23:52 grah, surrounded by kids Jun 14 06:23:59 =P Jun 14 06:24:11 yeah, that's got me beat by a couple of years as well. Jun 14 06:24:11 i was 4 when that came out Jun 14 06:24:50 geist, ah, I watched a little of max headroom Jun 14 06:24:55 I was about -6 Jun 14 06:26:10 some of these values going over usb seem to be somewhat arbitrary - but i am caution to just dismiss them as arbitrary Jun 14 06:26:21 i'm trying to webos Dr my phone, but it been sitting there for over one hour.. Jun 14 06:26:24 8 Jun 14 06:26:26 bpadalino: good idea Jun 14 06:26:34 I feel old now Jun 14 06:26:50 can I uplug the usb cable, shutdown webosDr and re-do? Jun 14 06:26:53 geist, mainly on the setup of the comm channel with the response in the serial field Jun 14 06:27:04 can't figure out how you get the other 40-character string Jun 14 06:27:12 which direction? Jun 14 06:27:15 or what the other 9 bytes are Jun 14 06:27:20 back to the pre Jun 14 06:27:23 it's random Jun 14 06:27:31 no wonder i couldn't figur eit out! Jun 14 06:27:42 lol Jun 14 06:27:45 funny how we tell each other our ages, not directly, but in reference to a 1980's show. Jun 14 06:27:52 that's the device id, it's fixed on the device Jun 14 06:28:01 right - going from pre -> host Jun 14 06:28:03 same id in the serial number field in the usb descriptor Jun 14 06:28:11 then replaced by the host -> pre ... Jun 14 06:28:13 since the novacomd stuff is symmetric, i had to just make one up for the host Jun 14 06:28:13 EvanPro: Oh, I would have mentioned it, had it come up. But, yeah, funnier this way. Jun 14 06:28:21 gotcha Jun 14 06:28:30 the other 9 bytes in those packets are a mystery to me Jun 14 06:28:46 if you had a shell on the device and telnetted to 6968 there, you'd see a 'device' which is the host Jun 14 06:28:50 i see the one 32-bit word change ... but i don't need to change it to get into a nop Jun 14 06:30:45 that's a session id Jun 14 06:30:47 random Jun 14 06:30:48 EvanPro: I'm 41.5 Jun 14 06:30:49 i am also guessing there is a host and a device channel ID/address that determines the source/dest address .. and when the dest is 0, it's a broadcast/announcement to connect ? Jun 14 06:30:56 they change back and forth with the packets Jun 14 06:31:08 ah, another random guy Jun 14 06:31:21 it's so that the two sides know what instance they're talking to Jun 14 06:31:26 gotcha Jun 14 06:31:36 if either novacomd got killed or restarted, there'd be no way to know that it's another instance Jun 14 06:31:39 and the state would get whacky Jun 14 06:31:47 so each side makes up a random id and they negotiate t Jun 14 06:31:51 ah, understandable Jun 14 06:32:14 TCP/IP actually has this problem, but it's generally assumed tat the computer wont restart within the usual socket timeout Jun 14 06:32:33 i would think that a new instance of novacomd would have the first read be an announcement (destination 0) and the host connected to it would have to go into a "Wtf?!" mode ? Jun 14 06:32:44 but if you reboot a computer and it comes up fast enough to start talking with the same sockets, the other end can potentially get confused Jun 14 06:32:50 uninitialized? whatever that field being 0 is Jun 14 06:33:06 ah, yes Jun 14 06:33:26 here's a hint: there are two layers of protocol there Jun 14 06:33:48 one is the usbll stuff, which handles the usb session, makes sure it's talking to the same novacomd, negotiates the device id Jun 14 06:34:02 the layer above that which is unaware of the lower level does all the multiplexing Jun 14 06:34:07 you haven't gotten into that layer yet Jun 14 06:34:20 pmux with 7 and b for the directions ? Jun 14 06:34:27 I think rwhitby/rwhitby-treo is the oldest person here Jun 14 06:34:29 pmux is what it's called, yes Jun 14 06:35:15 yeah, i am just getting to that point .. the usbl was actually confusing with those random numbers .. but now that they're just random, i can move on Jun 14 06:35:30 if you traced enough sessions you'd notice this Jun 14 06:35:41 the perils of spending all the time looking at a single session trace Jun 14 06:35:49 the crazy part is that i traced 4 sessions Jun 14 06:35:55 and the "random" numbers were all the same Jun 14 06:36:00 well Jun 14 06:36:02 some of them were Jun 14 06:36:05 but what i dont understand is why 6970 isn't giving you the full trace of this Jun 14 06:36:10 the host/device ID's changed Jun 14 06:36:21 i left that on, it should be giving you a full symbolic trace of what's going on, much like tcpdump Jun 14 06:36:21 6970 ? Jun 14 06:36:27 port 6970 Jun 14 06:36:44 you guys found that last week sometime Jun 14 06:36:48 did someoen not tell you? Jun 14 06:36:52 i guess i was unaware Jun 14 06:37:19 are you on windows or mac? Jun 14 06:37:25 i have a suspiciou that it's disabled on windows Jun 14 06:37:27 geist, no, we found it didn't work Jun 14 06:37:31 geist, remember Jun 14 06:37:37 Sargun: was it on windows or mac? Jun 14 06:37:40 winslows Jun 14 06:37:47 i am on a mac with 2 VM's open .. linux and windows Jun 14 06:38:01 lemme see... Jun 14 06:38:08 i used windows and USBTrace to get the USB dumps .. Jun 14 06:38:11 i betcha it's disabled on windows Jun 14 06:38:17 because OS X didn't have the kext enabled for that Jun 14 06:38:31 but if it's just an open port! Jun 14 06:40:27 ah yes, i see. it's disabled on windows Jun 14 06:40:36 why i dont know, but someone #ifdefed it out for win32 Jun 14 06:40:46 probably some bug with msvc and didn't get around to fixing it Jun 14 06:40:50 too bad, get a mac :) Jun 14 06:40:50 * EvanPro almost has first desire to throw his pre, after 3rd try at getting app to run yeilds a blank screen. Jun 14 06:41:41 looks like they set it in the MSVC project file, and it's disabled for release builds Jun 14 06:41:53 whereas there is no such thing for linux/mac buidls (compiled with a makefile) Jun 14 06:42:03 i have a mac - so thanks for the tip on 6970 Jun 14 06:42:25 :-) Jun 14 06:42:54 i really screwed up my current novacomd running on this host Jun 14 06:43:29 sigh Jun 14 06:43:47 if only running OS X in a VM was easy Jun 14 06:44:26 I'll just have to 'borrow' a Macbook from work when I get my Pre. Jun 14 06:44:53 so how are you tracing usb now? Jun 14 06:45:04 i assume you dont have a bus analyzer Jun 14 06:45:17 at work i do, but that's beside the point .. Jun 14 06:45:20 what i actually did Jun 14 06:45:36 run xp in a VM in OS X .. use USBTrace software to get the captures Jun 14 06:45:55 unloaded the novacomd from launchd on my mac Jun 14 06:45:58 and it seems to work pretty well Jun 14 06:46:08 ah Jun 14 06:46:18 i wanted to get the debug drivers from apple Jun 14 06:46:27 and use USB Prober Jun 14 06:46:27 Has any one actually figured out how to make new notifications vibrate longer than the default? Jun 14 06:46:48 but for some reason the latest os x debug IOUSBFamily kext's are not available Jun 14 06:46:51 not in chat but brand new notifications Jun 14 06:46:52 was in the "OK ROM" thread i think.. Jun 14 06:47:03 well, watch a transaction with the trace on and i betcha it'll clear a lot up Jun 14 06:47:05 (vibrating longer) Jun 14 06:47:19 negative, the code to edit was for notifications while in chat Jun 14 06:47:29 i am talking about brand new ones Jun 14 06:47:37 so far i've just taken a look at opening a terminal .. it looks pretty simple .. Jun 14 06:47:53 i'd like to get into the more advanced aspects, like file get/send .. Jun 14 06:48:04 there's an execute as well, isn't there ? Jun 14 06:48:18 i guess my questions is, has anyone found the mojo call for vinrate? Jun 14 06:48:27 vibrate* Jun 14 06:48:38 bpadalino: novacomd does a lot more than just open shells, yes Jun 14 06:49:08 bpadalino: what kind of work do you do? Jun 14 06:49:16 FPGAs. Jun 14 06:49:20 He works on SDRs Jun 14 06:49:21 i write signal processing algorithms that go into FPGA's for software defined radio Jun 14 06:49:44 yeah.. Jun 14 06:49:50 sounds cool. time for googling what those acronyms mean Jun 14 06:49:57 I am going to speculate that no one has found out how to turn on the LEDS for new notifications yet.. no one has found the mojo call for them yet have they Jun 14 06:49:58 geist, Like get, and put files! Jun 14 06:50:21 lol Jun 14 06:50:26 and more Jun 14 06:50:27 get file, put file, open terminal, run program, put in memory seem to be the functionality Jun 14 06:50:32 $moduleManager($moduleManager(1)).getName Jun 14 06:50:41 sorry, my bad. Jun 14 06:50:44 the run program is the most complicated Jun 14 06:51:03 since it bridges all the stdin/stdout/stderr properly, and handles signals, EOF on either end, etc Jun 14 06:51:13 sounds pretty complicated Jun 14 06:51:16 bpadalino: whoa that sounds complicated Jun 14 06:51:16 pyrognome: i can't speak for everyone, but i haven't gotten there yet. i'm playing with mojo gps stuff right now.. but mainly i'm trying to get my stupid app to stop blank screen'ing. Jun 14 06:51:25 your job, that is Jun 14 06:51:34 cyanidepoison, it's pretty neat .. very fun .. Jun 14 06:51:41 but this pre stuff has had me distracted lately Jun 14 06:51:52 the radios we build are less integrated than cell phones Jun 14 06:52:02 more synthesizers, filters, etc - since they cover significantly wider ranges Jun 14 06:52:46 I have no problem looking thru the js to see where the mojo calls are for the LEDs and vibrate function calls are. I just dont' have time this weekend. I was hoping someone else made so leyway Jun 14 06:52:50 geist, pretty impressive. Jun 14 06:53:04 you gain a lot of respect for the integrated MSM processors and how low power they can be Jun 14 06:53:04 geist, We have major issues factory testing our devices Jun 14 06:53:15 headway Jun 14 06:53:25 o0zeno0o: ? Jun 14 06:54:00 sorry.. perils of sloppy focus Jun 14 06:54:18 did you guys see the post about adding new pages or deleting pages in the wiki? Jun 14 06:54:48 nope Jun 14 06:54:58 heh Jun 14 06:55:00 lots of people have added pages Jun 14 06:55:13 pyrognome, link Jun 14 06:55:17 no i mean adding pages to the launcher Jun 14 06:55:21 3am and i am still writing c .. something is wrong with me :( Jun 14 06:55:28 http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher Jun 14 06:55:37 jvmguy, a fellow bay-arean? Jun 14 06:55:41 I tested this out add owrks Jun 14 06:55:45 cool Jun 14 06:55:46 my sleep schedule is going crazy. I've gotten into the habit of staying up till 4AM and waking up at 2PM Jun 14 06:56:32 sorry, I have been drinking tonight. I have tested it out and the add or delete page functions work. I wrote a wiki page for it. Jun 14 06:56:37 Wish I had that schedule Jun 14 06:56:43 Sargun, when you ran Doom. Did you have to kill the webOS gui? Jun 14 06:56:47 join the club Jun 14 06:56:56 dkelson, yeah, look at the wiki Jun 14 06:57:05 luckily I'm self employed and all I do is write iPhone apps since I'm off of school :) Jun 14 06:57:08 there were two pages both describing how to add/delete pages Jun 14 06:57:46 I'm not, and I recently had my first "sit down" with the boss in 9 years.. Jun 14 06:57:55 @cyanidepoison that's my favorite sleep schedule Jun 14 06:57:58 uh oh .. Jun 14 06:57:59 rawdr, you link me the second one Jun 14 06:58:00 sit down ? Jun 14 06:58:04 o0zeno0o, oh, what'd you get in trouble for Jun 14 06:58:06 that sounds bad Jun 14 06:58:10 hah I had one as well :( Jun 14 06:58:49 I ended up having to stay awake for 48 hours then go to bed at 10pm to fix my sleep-schedule Jun 14 06:59:03 rwhitby-treo: I have your FR on my desk with fix applied, just need to reflash to make test call .. can't get the andriod installed to make a call Jun 14 06:59:42 cool Jun 14 06:59:43 Ehh... I am on call 24/7 Jun 14 06:59:53 I keep trying to stay up all night to get back to going to bed at 11 but I keep falling asleep Jun 14 06:59:56 are the only thing yo guys are working on linux based? or, are any of you working on UI code? Jun 14 07:00:06 dvarnes: gonna swap for a Pre soon? Jun 14 07:00:18 But when I end up on a late call that lasts 20 hours, it screws up my sleep scedule Jun 14 07:00:32 takes me too long to get back into wack, I guess.. Jun 14 07:00:34 rwhitby-treo: when does gsm hit .au ? :-) Jun 14 07:00:54 rumours are Aug Jun 14 07:01:01 stop fighting it. nocturnal is better. Jun 14 07:01:18 dvarnes: Telstra mms settings are in the code Jun 14 07:01:21 I just need a job that agrees ;0p Jun 14 07:01:22 rwhitby-treo: .. pretty compelling :-) kudos to all .. Jun 14 07:01:23 Move to a different time-zone, that fixes it Jun 14 07:01:31 pyrognome: i am working on mojo / app stuff. Jun 14 07:01:40 i tried moving to a different timezone, didn't work for me Jun 14 07:01:49 as you know Jun 14 07:01:54 hehehe Jun 14 07:01:57 yes I do indeed Jun 14 07:02:08 perhaps that's it.. move to hawaii... that'll solve everything! Jun 14 07:03:55 Catham Islands - GMT+13:45 Jun 14 07:04:52 woohooo my app launched. Jun 14 07:05:37 terminal add? :0D Jun 14 07:05:43 app, even? Jun 14 07:06:24 lol no, sorry. i abandoned that... i'm working on a gps app for myself. Jun 14 07:06:56 tells you how far you are away from the beer? Jun 14 07:07:05 exactly Jun 14 07:07:21 but also tells me how many hours i've spent at work, driving, etc. Jun 14 07:07:22 :) Jun 14 07:07:29 I don't need it.. I stay with the beer at all times Jun 14 07:07:29 via proximity. Jun 14 07:08:23 Yeah, the main thing I want on this thing is a terminal, but it doesn't look very promising... Jun 14 07:08:50 if services are figured out it'd be possible Jun 14 07:09:21 well i gave it up cause they were saying they'll just use webshell or whatever... but since that monster eats the cpu like candy, i might go back to playing with a terminal after this gps app is done. Jun 14 07:09:50 EvanPro, that would be *much* appreciated Jun 14 07:10:11 but like i said, without mojo docs, i'll need to find an app that's doing a system call of some sort, and getting feedback. Jun 14 07:10:37 time for me to sleep .. i think i'll crack this nut tomorrow Jun 14 07:10:38 night Jun 14 07:10:53 i'd hope mojo has something similar to php's passthru. Jun 14 07:11:04 The only thing I ever wrote in java script was sudo-animated button pushes on web pages 10 years ago.. I'm next to useless when it comes to writing an app on this thing.. Jun 14 07:11:13 that, or tcp / socket abilities. Jun 14 07:11:43 look at the google maps app Evanpro, or evan some of the down-loadable, location aware apps from the app catalog Jun 14 07:12:00 EvanPro: i don't think it has any Jun 14 07:12:34 google maps is weird... there's not much to reference with it.. seems like they're loading the builk of it remotely or something. Jun 14 07:13:04 that may be the case, but there are apps from the app catalog that use GPS location Jun 14 07:13:48 they have this mapsell thing, but it seems to deadend there. Jun 14 07:13:50 I heard that the GPS assistant js will show you the functions you need to call Jun 14 07:14:05 oh, no, no.. i've got all the gps stuff figured out. Jun 14 07:14:09 :) no troubles there. Jun 14 07:14:16 oh ok, what is the trouble then Jun 14 07:14:24 i was referring to reference for making a terminal app. Jun 14 07:14:51 why do you need a terminal app? Jun 14 07:15:12 i'd either need sockets or some type of system hooks to do it at the mojo level.. without writing a browser plugin.. which i'm not that far into this stuff yet. Jun 14 07:15:28 EvanPro: gps? can you grab the corods easily Jun 14 07:15:35 what is it you are trying to accomplish evanpro? Jun 14 07:15:42 JimShoe: yeah, i have a working function for gps. Jun 14 07:16:01 pyrognome: because it seems to be the most sought after app in this community, and i wanted to contribute back. Jun 14 07:16:01 thats awesome Jun 14 07:16:12 how good does the gps work anyways Jun 14 07:16:37 The gps works better than in any other phone I've tried Jun 14 07:16:45 seems to be decent... the function i'm using pulls the coords, but i believe you can set up a listener and "subscribe" to them as well. Jun 14 07:16:46 (Not bias, I swear) Jun 14 07:16:58 you are trying to write a terminal app to get GPS? I can't think of a reason why some one would need to know that besides using an app on the pre itself Jun 14 07:17:10 pyrognome: they want a termianl in general Jun 14 07:17:20 lol, no pyrognome... terminal app and gps app are two different things. Jun 14 07:17:23 I don't see why it's hard to understand why they would want a term Jun 14 07:17:27 oh i know Jun 14 07:17:56 sorryi didn't mean to get the conversation off track, I just have a thing for gpss Jun 14 07:18:14 not a problem JimShoe. Jun 14 07:18:21 its hard for me, I want nothing to do with term. I want to have apps on the phone usable thru the UI. I don't need ackend support except SFTP Jun 14 07:18:45 A terminal means you can do things like ssh from the ui Jun 14 07:18:51 pyrognome: how are you going to use irc then Jun 14 07:18:59 pyrognome: the point of me building the terminal app would be to make it usable via the ui. Jun 14 07:19:02 or emacs Jun 14 07:19:13 * JimShoe loves him some weechat in a terminal Jun 14 07:19:15 need a terminal for emacs Jun 14 07:19:16 hrm on http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository the instructions for the bind are backwards, you gotta add it to fstab then mount it. heh Jun 14 07:19:28 rwhitby-treo: don't you mean vim Jun 14 07:19:36 no Jun 14 07:19:42 lol Jun 14 07:19:47 I mean either or both Jun 14 07:19:47 JimShoe: don't start.. we went down this road earlier tonight. Jun 14 07:19:52 lol Jun 14 07:20:31 k, so let me get this straight. you need to write a term app so that you can use it in the UI? Jun 14 07:20:37 EvanPro: ah, its cool, peveryone has their own way of doing things Jun 14 07:20:49 wouldn't a UI app be js with mojo calls and html? Jun 14 07:21:16 I'm giving up for now Jun 14 07:21:25 i think a lot of people would want a terminal app myself included Jun 14 07:21:48 got a keyboard on the thing, so you need a terminal app Jun 14 07:22:00 pyrognome: yes.. and i know plenty enough html / js to make the "ui" for a terminal app (irony?)... but i'm just missing the mojo calls that would be needed. Jun 14 07:22:02 it's as simple as that Jun 14 07:22:04 pyrognome: yes, so you would start up the terminal app, and get a promp on your phone Jun 14 07:22:49 rwhitby-treo: you must be a linux person Jun 14 07:23:01 i am sorry. I am jumping into this way too late. So you are saying a term app that runs as a UI app on the phone Jun 14 07:23:13 EvanPro: google maps is actually pretty simple Jun 14 07:23:21 pyrognome: yes Jun 14 07:23:23 pyrognome: you said yo've been drinking tonight, right? Jun 14 07:23:43 all it does is generate a special URL and passes it off to a webview widget Jun 14 07:23:44 classic emulator runs some kind of gui code embedded in the page. might be a good example Jun 14 07:24:15 ShinAli: ahh... figures... so pretty much like i said, it's all loaded remotely. Jun 14 07:24:21 no, I have a hard time understanding why you want a term app in one environment when there is the JS and html luna environment. I had to think differently and mix the 2 Jun 14 07:24:49 ... Jun 14 07:24:55 pyrognome: so you don't have to go to a computer to enter commands for your machine, so you can ssh from away from home etc... a million reasons Jun 14 07:24:59 for all the apps that were invented before JS Jun 14 07:24:59 pyrognome: oh, must have been someonoe else, said they were drinking. Jun 14 07:25:23 err "your machine" i mean your pre. heh Jun 14 07:25:30 You need a terminal. Jun 14 07:25:37 ./discussion Jun 14 07:25:46 cyanidepoison++ Jun 14 07:25:49 so you can actually use all of this cool optware stuff we are putting on. heh Jun 14 07:26:27 guis aret ways to run multiple terminals Jun 14 07:26:33 EvanPro: the webview widget is basically a little browser page for the webOS apps, at least from what i saw in the mojo framework source Jun 14 07:26:37 s/aret/are just/ Jun 14 07:26:45 ShinAli: right Jun 14 07:27:16 the card metaphor was invented just so we didn't need screen anymore ... Jun 14 07:27:23 haha Jun 14 07:27:23 gui's are way to run pretty terminals. You can have a terminal with hello kitty in the background Jun 14 07:27:24 no no, I get it now. I just for some reason didn't think about having a term app in the UI. enough, case closed. I'll shut up now that I understand what you are talking about and sorry for wasting your time. Jun 14 07:27:27 hi, btw Jun 14 07:27:48 night all Jun 14 07:28:02 night cya-p Jun 14 07:28:10 how's everything going? I was playing chess over skype and following the logs between moves Jun 14 07:28:38 chess over skype how does that work? Jun 14 07:28:42 what kind of opening did you do Jun 14 07:28:43 Sargun: you got debian set up right? Jun 14 07:28:54 well, not really. Chess on yahoo games while webcam/chatting over skype Jun 14 07:28:54 joshua, yes sir Jun 14 07:28:55 JimShoe: chess notation Jun 14 07:28:56 ShinAli: a webview widget won't work for a terminal app.. unless i want to write a server-side ssh client, and proxy the input/output through to that via ajax... that would just be horribly inefficient, and not scale at all... not to mention be laggy, etc. Jun 14 07:29:04 or what zinge said Jun 14 07:29:25 EvanPro, you run it on localhost Jun 14 07:29:45 ShinAli: teaching the gf chess. Notation would have been confusing Jun 14 07:29:47 well, that's what webshell does, and it ate 80% of the pre's cpu. Jun 14 07:29:53 EvanPro: yup, which basically means lower-level services need to be figured out Jun 14 07:30:04 or maybe the java part Jun 14 07:30:13 i still don't know how luna works with mojo Jun 14 07:30:17 ShinAli: or a simple mojo system hook :) Jun 14 07:30:23 Sargun: theres a fbterm app that i think might be available in debian to run terminal on the framebuffer Jun 14 07:30:31 EvanPro: if that existed? Jun 14 07:30:50 i haven't seen any other than accessing hardware stuff on a very basic level Jun 14 07:31:59 joshua, I'll try it out Jun 14 07:32:01 ShinAli: i'm not sure if it exists... i haven't tried looking for an example yet since i'm just doing my gps app. Jun 14 07:32:26 a good example if anything would be findapps aka app catalog Jun 14 07:32:33 ShinAli: if not, i'd imagine a browser "plugin" would have to be written. Jun 14 07:33:20 i'm trying to look into that but figuring out luna would be great Jun 14 07:33:41 i haven't dug into luna either. Jun 14 07:34:14 joshua, crashes Jun 14 07:34:33 hrm Jun 14 07:34:43 anyone figured out the download manager? Jun 14 07:37:29 Do I have to be in dev-mode to ssh in with dropbear? Jun 14 07:38:09 nope Jun 14 07:38:19 all dev mode is novacom Jun 14 07:38:30 roger Jun 14 07:38:57 I was fiddling with iptables stuff and borked it Jun 14 07:39:03 reboot. Jun 14 07:42:43 chrisa, since "bare metal apps" are browser plugins, doesn't that meant they are all running in process and one bugyy app can take down all cards ala Windows 3.1 and MacOS 9? Jun 14 07:42:55 no memory protection Jun 14 07:43:18 hrm in /etc/init.d/networking theres some checks if / is mounted via NFS or SMB before deconfiguring network Jun 14 07:43:51 dkelson: I just work on drivers/bootloaders/etc, I have absolutely no idea Jun 14 07:44:02 ok Jun 14 07:45:24 dkelson: i think that might be why classic is the only one Jun 14 07:45:47 not as perfect as they want it to be Jun 14 07:45:59 BTW everyone. I have DynDNS working on demand whenever my ppp0 (EVDO) interface comes up. That means I have the hostname/IP mapping for pre.mydomain.com changing on the fly as my EVDO address changes. Jun 14 07:46:13 dkelson, did you install a dyndns client on your phone Jun 14 07:46:21 no long running daemons Jun 14 07:46:24 Sargun, yes Jun 14 07:46:48 the client is called inadyn Jun 14 07:47:01 using the "iterations 1" option Jun 14 07:47:02 dkelson: you should post that up on the wiki Jun 14 07:47:06 I will Jun 14 07:47:16 nice Jun 14 07:47:21 :) Jun 14 07:47:34 tomorrow though, late at night here Jun 14 07:47:51 damn i just noticed the time here Jun 14 07:50:47 i'm digging through mojo right now.. seeing if there's anything that might be useful for a terminal app. Jun 14 07:52:00 EvanPro: you find anything? Jun 14 07:52:09 EvanPro: so am I, but I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for Jun 14 07:52:28 edektor: nothing yet. Jun 14 07:52:42 Mostly just googling around for lists of mojo calls and examples and such to see if therres anything that might be useful to you Jun 14 07:53:17 zinge: anything that seems to be making a lower os-level call, and exposing it via a js method would be helpful, really... Jun 14 07:53:32 k Jun 14 07:53:46 I'll let you know if I find anything Jun 14 07:53:49 heh, i'm just digging through the actual mojo framework itself, reading all the calls. Jun 14 07:54:04 ah. that will proabbly work better :-) Jun 14 07:54:34 heh.. check this one out... Mojo.doNothing=function(){}; Jun 14 07:54:54 heh. why bother? Jun 14 07:55:40 not sure, lol Jun 14 07:55:53 for some odd reason, ssh access only works when I have it connected to my machine via USB Jun 14 07:55:59 oh wel Jun 14 07:56:19 wizkd: it's probably because the phone goes to sleep really quick when it's not plugged in. Jun 14 07:56:36 yeah I have it sitting on the touchstone otherwise Jun 14 07:57:14 but it doesn't appear to sleep on the touchstone? Jun 14 07:58:18 it will appear but probably not turn off the wifi Jun 14 07:58:32 i'd try it Jun 14 07:58:42 oh wait you probably have Jun 14 07:58:43 nvm Jun 14 07:58:59 ha yes, I'm just doing something stupid. I'll figure it out Jun 14 07:59:33 i wish they didn't strip all the tabs out of the mojo source. Jun 14 07:59:54 what are these com.palm.namegoeshere.services that start with [D-BUS SERVICE] and are exec-ing /usr/bin/;una-helper? Jun 14 07:59:59 EvanPro: are you looking at that HUGE framework file? Jun 14 07:59:59 luna-helper* Jun 14 08:00:20 ShinAli: yes. Jun 14 08:00:26 yikes wrong one Jun 14 08:00:55 it is? it seems to have a lot of the methods used in the apps... Jun 14 08:01:12 its the right one technically, but its the congregated version of it Jun 14 08:01:22 doh Jun 14 08:01:31 who was the person who got a dyndns client running on their phone Jun 14 08:01:41 look in /usr/palm/framework/mojo/submissions/ Jun 14 08:01:46 yeah lol Jun 14 08:01:48 i see it now. Jun 14 08:01:51 haha Jun 14 08:01:55 ? Jun 14 08:01:58 i was too lazy to keep looking around once i found the one file. Jun 14 08:02:15 Sargun: dkelson or dreadchicken, I think Jun 14 08:02:25 mentioned they would add it to the wik Jun 14 08:02:28 its dkelson Jun 14 08:02:28 dkelson, ping Jun 14 08:02:30 sargun, was dkelson: Jun 14 08:02:49 well he got pinged about 5 times Jun 14 08:03:10 pinging dkelson 6 times wont hurt Jun 14 08:03:15 lol, I'm back just for sec (hopefully) Jun 14 08:03:39 lol Jun 14 08:03:59 ahhh whitespace can be a great thing. Jun 14 08:04:03 Sargun, what's up? Jun 14 08:04:20 dkelson, how did you get the program to run on intervals Jun 14 08:04:31 i need to get that o'reilly book on iptables. theres gotta be a way to forward traffic but the rules on the pre have traffic shaping and all that thrown into the mix Jun 14 08:04:36 no need for intervals Jun 14 08:04:54 It only needs to run when the ppp0 comes up Jun 14 08:05:21 In my case at least, I want my dyndns hostname to point at my EVDO ip Jun 14 08:05:48 dkelson, how do you get it to run when ppp0 comes up Jun 14 08:05:58 joshua: I see no traffic shaping. "qdisc" and such forth is not installed, although that would be interesting Jun 14 08:06:17 tc? Jun 14 08:06:24 ALLOWED_PACKETS icmp -- anywhere anywhere limit: avg 1/sec burst 5 icmp destination-unreachable Jun 14 08:06:29 wizkd, tc Jun 14 08:06:30 yeah, sorry Jun 14 08:06:33 yeah its using tc... at least i remember seeing it somewhere Jun 14 08:06:46 I've doing doing Linux since '93. Back when the only way online was via dialup. I created /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/99dyndns Jun 14 08:06:47 I sit corrected Jun 14 08:06:55 geeze.. surprised i didn't dig in here sooner... these are all documented and everything... the only thing we need to wait on the sdk for is getting apps listed in the catalog. Jun 14 08:07:10 a script with this command: /opt/bin/inadyn > /dev/null 2>&1 Jun 14 08:07:26 dkelson, how old are you Jun 14 08:07:32 34 Jun 14 08:07:47 ah, nearly double my age Jun 14 08:07:58 ive only been using linux since 96. Not as old school. heh Jun 14 08:08:08 An oldtimer :) Jun 14 08:08:28 "tc qdisc" reveals nothing going on Jun 14 08:09:23 i was learning like... addition and subtraction in 96... Jun 14 08:09:40 dkelson: i'm with you Jun 14 08:09:49 dkelson: i don't even understand that command Jun 14 08:09:56 I was getting attacked by a hurricane in '92 Jun 14 08:10:12 I can't remember what I was doing in 96 Jun 14 08:10:15 5 years old. Jun 14 08:10:18 evenpro i've been looking through that mojo stuff as well... seems like the actual system calls aren't documented in there, just the framework for making them is defined Jun 14 08:10:20 my character was being called into question in '89 Jun 14 08:10:27 lol Jun 14 08:10:29 haha Jun 14 08:10:43 has anyone here looked into where the function is that turns off the phone when using usb storage or media sync? Jun 14 08:10:44 wow, you're younger than i am sargun.. i thought i'd be one of the younger ones in here. Jun 14 08:11:05 Hurricane Andrew? Jun 14 08:11:07 EvanPro, how old are you Jun 14 08:11:18 although, i bet i'm the youngest homeowner in here... if that counts for anything, lol Jun 14 08:11:21 * zinge gives dkelson a cookie Jun 14 08:11:22 19 Jun 14 08:11:31 i tried grepping for some things related to the usb storage and media sync but it seems to be related to a deeper call Jun 14 08:11:40 EvanPro, Doesn't writing the windows clone for the rooter count as a homebrew Jun 14 08:11:47 I drove through Florida in '93. Saw lots of wreckage still. Jun 14 08:11:59 We had an skylight where our roof used to be Jun 14 08:12:00 EvanPro, or getting doom running on the device Jun 14 08:12:05 had to cut us out of the house with a chainsaw Jun 14 08:12:15 zinge, who were you with Jun 14 08:12:31 who was I with? Jun 14 08:12:41 Sargun, huh? i said home..owner.. not homebrew lol. Jun 14 08:12:59 oh... Jun 14 08:13:08 EvanPro, where do you own a home Jun 14 08:13:19 with as in "us"? Jun 14 08:13:25 EvanPro, what is your source of cash Jun 14 08:13:27 zinge, yup Jun 14 08:13:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert,_Arizona Jun 14 08:13:30 hahaha i thought he said homebrewer too Jun 14 08:13:35 Sargun, make sure your inadyn.conf has "iterations 1" Jun 14 08:13:45 oh. Parents and younger sister Jun 14 08:13:46 wow Gilbert has its own wiki? Jun 14 08:13:59 zinge, ah Jun 14 08:14:02 electrofreak66: lol yeah.. surprisingly.. the mormons must have made it. Jun 14 08:14:20 sargun: cash comes from my salary and web sites / businesses i run on the side. Jun 14 08:14:37 nite all Jun 14 08:14:45 EvanPro, how much do you make a year Jun 14 08:15:02 i could have sworn i saw tc being called from a script somewhere but that was the first night I got in the phone and I forgot where Jun 14 08:15:05 wow, pointed-question time Jun 14 08:15:18 wizkd: yeah, really lol. Jun 14 08:15:30 i'll PM it to you Sargun Jun 14 08:16:27 joshua: I'll look around, it might be on an as-needed basis where it's used Jun 14 08:16:45 ah Jun 14 08:20:31 dmr: i'm noticing the same thing. Jun 14 08:21:41 i don't know where we could follow those requests to Jun 14 08:22:07 does anyone know if the palm pre supports usb otg? Jun 14 08:22:26 OTG? Jun 14 08:22:32 the chip does, supposedly Jun 14 08:22:33 that sound familiar Jun 14 08:22:49 well if nothing else we should probably start making a list of all the service calls we find Jun 14 08:22:57 other than that, I don't think anyones gotten anywhere wit it Jun 14 08:23:04 on the go... my 800w has it... it allows you to connect external hd's and sound cards to it visa the microusb Jun 14 08:23:19 via the microusb* Jun 14 08:23:21 that would be stellar Jun 14 08:23:47 ya thats what I was thinking Jun 14 08:24:30 i have already tried to connect a generic usb sound card and it didn't work Jun 14 08:24:42 dmr: yeah, i agree... i just keep hoping there's some magic "bridge" method that just proxies through terminal i/o... obviously a wet dream.. but it'd be nice. Jun 14 08:24:58 what about a regular usb hard-drive? Jun 14 08:25:16 with power, that is Jun 14 08:25:25 well, within reason Jun 14 08:25:32 if it does support it anyways Jun 14 08:25:34 yeah i'll keep looking (for a bit anyway, need to get to bed soon), haven't seen anything like that though Jun 14 08:26:00 wizkd, electrofreak66: afaik, the hardware should support it, but there is no software for it Jun 14 08:26:26 well i wonder if the linux kernel recognizes things plugged in? Jun 14 08:27:16 I don't have access to a rooted pre to find out but I will be getting one soon. Jun 14 08:27:37 electrofreak66: me too Jun 14 08:27:51 I don't know enough about USB to find out, but I'll research Jun 14 08:27:55 im just waiting for my eBay auctions to end Jun 14 08:28:26 that was a recursively stupid statemen haha Jun 14 08:29:08 I have a microusb otg adapter, and can't wait to start plugging things in a testing it. I just have to get a new plan with Sprint... bye Sero Jun 14 08:29:30 I'd plug things in and test them for you, but I don't have the adapter Jun 14 08:29:41 me neither Jun 14 08:30:03 i ordered a female/female usb coupler on monoprice last night Jun 14 08:30:13 my hopes on the otg support is for some company to make a case for the pre that also allows you to plug in microsd cards Jun 14 08:30:30 that would be very nice Jun 14 08:30:49 that would be cool Jun 14 08:30:57 that would require all manner of software support though Jun 14 08:31:05 so i dunno if palm would be up for that Jun 14 08:31:07 ya but it has linux on it... Jun 14 08:31:07 dang, nothing for "terminal" in any js files on the pre. Jun 14 08:31:20 the kernel has ohci support, a hard drive would be the most likely thing to already have a driver Jun 14 08:31:34 yes... agreed Jun 14 08:31:41 ShinAli, about as much as developer mode and drive mode Jun 14 08:32:02 i mean officially Jun 14 08:32:13 developer mode is official Jun 14 08:32:28 officially sanctioned, supported by palm, etc Jun 14 08:32:31 "official" or official Jun 14 08:35:18 this silence reminds of the question i asked earlier, has anyone looked into the function that turns off the phone when using usb storage or media sync? Jun 14 08:36:09 What's the reason for that? Power saving? Jun 14 08:36:46 the phone turns off the cell radio when using it for media sync or usb storage mode right? Jun 14 08:37:15 it kicked me off novacom when i switched to media sync Jun 14 08:37:33 Wouldn't be power-saving since it gets juice from usb Jun 14 08:37:35 when the phone connects as usb storage or media sync, it has to unmount /media/internal so it can me mounted by win/mac/linux/whatever. (stop me if this is completely incorrect someone). So while you might be able to hack it to use the cell radio while its connected, if you tried to use anything like photos, music, or video, it wouldn't work Jun 14 08:37:57 novaproxy dies when you connect to media sync, but you can reconnect again after a sec Jun 14 08:38:10 yeah i reconnected Jun 14 08:38:11 zinge, makes sense Jun 14 08:38:12 and i think it turns off the cell radio aka turns off evdo and you cannot get any calls correct me if I wrong (and I hope I am) Jun 14 08:38:14 extractfs on /var/luna/data/extractfs type fuse.extractfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,user_id=0,group_id=0) Jun 14 08:38:24 joshua, I've wondered what that is Jun 14 08:38:24 was that there before? heh Jun 14 08:38:27 evenpro, i am wondering how one might register a custom service rather than rely on the ones built in Jun 14 08:38:47 you cannot get any calls, correct Jun 14 08:39:06 I observed a freinds pre and it seems to turn off the phone when in usb sync mode Jun 14 08:39:07 haven't checked to see if it actually turns off the radios, aka airplane mode, or not Jun 14 08:39:10 dmr, that's another thing i was wondering... but i feel like we're one level too high with this mojo stuff, to really see how it's working. Jun 14 08:39:12 oh yeah, it changes the usb ID somehow Jun 14 08:39:19 i think it only turns off the cell radio Jun 14 08:39:26 the wifi is still good Jun 14 08:39:29 but why? Jun 14 08:39:37 thats what i wanted to know Jun 14 08:40:12 i tried digging into the code to find out where it was that does this Jun 14 08:40:22 but couldn't find a whole lot of anything Jun 14 08:40:35 not sure... although anything that accesses the /media/internal includes things like pictures you've taken of your contacts I think (unless they are stored elsewhere after you link them) so maybe there would be problems if someone called you and it tried to show a contact pic? Jun 14 08:40:54 whatever this gadget stuff does is related to the usb mode change Jun 14 08:40:58 so race-condition Jun 14 08:41:00 hmm... yes mabye Jun 14 08:41:07 stuff like /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc.0/gadget/gadget-lun0/mediasync_sysinfo Jun 14 08:41:48 EvanPro, what are you trying to do Jun 14 08:41:50 thats where the fake iPod usb device info is in those files Jun 14 08:41:54 i don't know what's mapping those uri's to more low level instructions though Jun 14 08:42:18 dmr: neither do i, yet.. still digging. Jun 14 08:43:07 sargun: we're trying to find how to hook the high level js to lower level stuff... or at least see how mojo is doing it. Jun 14 08:43:32 EvanPro, webkit/luna-webkit is calling over dbus into the correct daemons Jun 14 08:44:09 mmm, what was that again.. dbus-util? Jun 14 08:44:20 to watch them Jun 14 08:45:40 sure Jun 14 08:47:16 theres two scripts /etc/passthru/gadget-*-hook that do something with the g_composite module, and then use ifup on a usb device Jun 14 08:49:23 hmmm i don't see any dbus daemons that would do me any good for accessing the terminal... Jun 14 08:50:14 not sure what would be involved in making / adding one... that steps out of my web dev jurisdiction. Jun 14 08:50:58 EvanPro, writing a dbus daemon is trivial Jun 14 08:51:01 even I could do it Jun 14 08:51:20 make me one that proxies terminal i/o :) Jun 14 08:52:01 trying to make a terminal app for luna? Jun 14 08:52:16 yup Jun 14 08:52:20 indeed Jun 14 08:53:03 seems palm hasn't given us a system hook like that though.... the public mojo stuff is pretty high level, as it stands. Jun 14 08:53:06 anyone know anything about gst-launch and gstreamer? Jun 14 08:53:19 EvanPro, write the frontend Jun 14 08:53:39 EvanPro, it's seriously something you should be able to hack together in an afternoon Jun 14 08:53:47 8-9 hours Jun 14 08:53:54 well, if you want to implement proper xterm support, more difficult Jun 14 08:54:00 the frontend or the daemon? Jun 14 08:54:48 i can write the frontend, no problem... but i need some way to get the terminal i/o to my javascript. Jun 14 08:54:53 EvanPro, do you have gestures on the web? Jun 14 08:54:58 er, in mojo Jun 14 08:55:13 or can you interface with the touch screen any other way than mouse Jun 14 08:55:14 yeah, i have gestures. Jun 14 08:55:41 mojo has premade ones, but i can use x/y to make our own. Jun 14 08:55:44 about the usb turn off phone thing: check out line 1768 in \usr\lib\luna\system\luna-systemui\app\controllers\bar-assistant.js it has a call to msmShutdownOtherRadios(). Is this related to turning off the cell radio? Jun 14 08:56:06 ack, backslashes :) Jun 14 08:56:10 ya ya Jun 14 08:56:20 i am on windows Jun 14 08:58:18 according to line 1824 of the same file, it won't enter usb mode if your on a call Jun 14 08:58:45 at least that's what it looks like to me Jun 14 08:58:57 ugh.. the sauce in my pizza lunchable isn't perforated. Jun 14 08:59:22 the sauce? Jun 14 08:59:30 you mean the package Jun 14 08:59:36 lol... yes the packaging. Jun 14 08:59:47 is missing a perforated spot for you to tear it apart Jun 14 09:00:00 crap Jun 14 09:00:00 just borked the camera Jun 14 09:00:00 but I found how to pick up the cam as a src in gst-launch Jun 14 09:00:00 hoping a reboot fixed it Jun 14 09:00:03 use your Pre keyboard Jun 14 09:00:16 the sauce packaging, to be exact. Jun 14 09:00:22 hmm... unrelated note: is LarrySteeze around? Jun 14 09:01:29 electrofreak66: msmShutdownOtherRadios is defined in that file, and it looks like it is Jun 14 09:01:35 EvanPro, yeah, if the entire pouch was perforated, that'd be bad Jun 14 09:02:25 * zinge sighs in relief Jun 14 09:02:32 rebooting fixed the camera app Jun 14 09:02:58 haha, yeah, i'd rather have no perforation, than complete perforation... although, what i desire is a single line of perforation across the top of the pouch so that i don't have to sacrifice my teeth or go hunting for scissors. Jun 14 09:03:19 thats why you need to carry pocketknives Jun 14 09:03:24 (yes, that was plural) Jun 14 09:03:28 again, use the edge of your Pre keyboard Jun 14 09:03:38 dysprosia: well thats good. I thought it might have been handled at a deeper level Jun 14 09:03:43 well, it is Jun 14 09:03:44 haha wizkd i missed that the first time. Jun 14 09:03:47 read the source, luke Jun 14 09:04:35 i actually dulled the keyboard edge with my teeth, as weird as that sounds... it worked thouigh, with no aesthetic side effects. Jun 14 09:04:38 I keep trying to intentionally cut my thumb with it, but I believe all the reviewers were lying about its sharpness Jun 14 09:04:59 it was only gizmodo complaining Jun 14 09:05:02 EvanPro, I recently saw pouches with some awesome ability to cut anywhere Jun 14 09:05:08 err, tear anywhere Jun 14 09:05:39 They do complain alot, but I always have to test for myself Jun 14 09:08:05 zinge: back to a point you made earlier about pics being on /media/internal... your right that could very well screw up some things if the phone was on still Jun 14 09:08:13 so, is someone writing me a terminal dbus daemon? Jun 14 09:08:48 ...I'll do it if someone wants to point me in the direction of a tutorial on how to write a dbus daemon Jun 14 09:08:53 EvanPro, what do you need said daemon to do Jun 14 09:08:53 (if we add a daemon, it's going to make installing this app a pain, by the way) Jun 14 09:09:00 dbus/glib are pretty easy Jun 14 09:09:05 and I think all mojo apps are sync Jun 14 09:09:18 chrisa, even a boot loader developer can use them! Jun 14 09:09:24 chrisa, sorry *rimshot* Jun 14 09:09:25 hey, I can do C stuff Jun 14 09:09:37 i just need it to proxy terminal i/o, i guess. Jun 14 09:09:38 I can do C stuff. C spot run? Jun 14 09:09:42 But work gave me this javascript o'reilly book and I'm afraid to open it Jun 14 09:09:46 I haven't used js in a decade Jun 14 09:10:13 they made a big fuss about "even web devs can code for webos", but i know no javascript :) Jun 14 09:10:56 i used to hate js so much... but then i was forced to use it for about 3 years, and now it's one of my strongest languages. Jun 14 09:11:00 when usb is plugged it, and you choose usb storage mode does it simply remount /media/internal or does it completely unmount and allows only usb to access it? Jun 14 09:11:26 I thought it had died over the years, but then I heard of ajax, then it died again for 3 or 4 years, and now it's back Jun 14 09:11:49 i wish palm would release all the webos code, but the chances of that are slim to none Jun 14 09:11:53 electrofreak66: I can't access /media/internal from the shell when its plugged in as usb drive, if that helps you any Jun 14 09:12:11 that does help Jun 14 09:12:16 that's how the economy affected me... it made me learn javascript... since the company i was at decided that we no longer needed "frontend" AND "backend" developers, and that the backend guys could do both.. Jun 14 09:13:11 some people foreclose.. i learn javascript. Jun 14 09:13:12 hehe Jun 14 09:13:43 I'm going to write an ADA app for Pre now Jun 14 09:14:34 EvanPro: this may not make any sense, as I only half understand what you need... but what if we just redirect terminal i/o to two seperate files and you read and write to them from your luna app. Or is that a dumb idea? Jun 14 09:15:19 that would theoretically work... but i don't know how... resource friendly that would be... Jun 14 09:15:37 Intensive on storage i/o Jun 14 09:15:44 okay Jun 14 09:15:48 wizkd: right. Jun 14 09:16:09 "but i don't know how... resource friendly that would be..." == dumb idea :-) Jun 14 09:16:13 some sort of stream would be ideal.. unless we could could set up some sort of shm object... Jun 14 09:16:46 could use inotify on the file to check for changes Jun 14 09:17:03 well, can't you do something with /dev/ttysomething? Jun 14 09:18:40 * @name function.js Jun 14 09:18:40 * @fileOverview This file has functions related to related to functions. Jun 14 09:18:44 heh Jun 14 09:18:54 lol Jun 14 09:19:02 zinge: No dumb questions, only dumb answers, etc... Jun 14 09:19:19 yeah, yeah, okay. I'll continue asking things to try and prove that wrong :-) Jun 14 09:19:51 EvanPro: on your end, how do you want the data from the terminal to be going to you? Jun 14 09:19:58 How do you recieve it in your luna gui? Jun 14 09:20:04 i'd like it to be an event i listen to. Jun 14 09:20:17 nah Jun 14 09:20:22 I need a terminal emulator Jun 14 09:20:25 You Jun 14 09:20:30 like vte Jun 14 09:20:55 you can't do that in mojo Jun 14 09:20:58 pocek: i'd imagine it's much harder to do terminal emulation in the gui without more sdk background Jun 14 09:21:04 don't know about can't Jun 14 09:21:07 more difficult, yes Jun 14 09:21:49 yeah, terminal emulators are hard Jun 14 09:21:59 i'll be able to pull it off, at least roughly, with prototype/jquery if i can get the terminal i/o somehow. Jun 14 09:23:13 the terminal i/o is all i'm worried about.. we can tweak the ui as needed, no problem... Jun 14 09:23:37 just read some libvte/xterm/whatever sources Jun 14 09:24:19 it looks like /dev/mapper/store-media is mounted on /media/internal when the phone is running normal Jun 14 09:24:42 can someone try to mount /dev/mapper/store-media to /media/internal as ro when connected via usb? Jun 14 09:24:43 well, i'm hopign someone else can do that lower stuff... then pass it up the chain to javascript / mojo as a dbus daemon. Jun 14 09:25:09 could looking through the source for this:http://sysd.org/stas/node/35 help any? clones one tty to another I think Jun 14 09:27:00 read about "pty"s Jun 14 09:27:06 you don't want to clone a tty Jun 14 09:27:09 i'm not familiar enough with that stuff to be certain. Jun 14 09:27:24 my head is not quite thinking clearly, but you basically want to start up a new login shell on a pty and then pass that through this black box you're creating in the middle Jun 14 09:27:39 yes, cloning is hacky for this Jun 14 09:27:40 ttysnoops sets up a pseudo-tty for the specified program and redirects its stdin/stdout/stderr to/from the current ctty and a specified snoop device (usually another tty or a socket) Jun 14 09:27:44 ok Jun 14 09:28:01 it might work, but it's not a nice way of doing what you want Jun 14 09:28:09 dysprosia: i agree. Jun 14 09:28:10 right Jun 14 09:28:19 reading up on pty's Jun 14 09:28:38 i wish i could brain how the login process works, but my head is hurting way too much and i don't realy want to think righ tnow :) Jun 14 09:29:46 thats new.... in addition to usb storage and novacom, my pre now shows up as a usb ethernet gadget as well Jun 14 09:30:08 must have been something I did earlier today and forgot about Jun 14 09:30:11 no drivers though Jun 14 09:31:57 okay, so EvanPro, you're looking for something to connect from a pty to an event that can be read in Luna? Jun 14 09:33:31 correct. Jun 14 09:33:47 bah. I'm out for the night. Thanks for answering questions guys. I need to start waking up at normal people times. I start work in a week Jun 14 09:33:50 well, the event would be for output... then there would have to be a method i call for relaying input. Jun 14 09:33:55 ok Jun 14 09:34:11 i have work on monday :( Jun 14 09:34:12 now at least I kinda understand it, although I obviously have no idea how to do it Jun 14 09:34:29 I don't start till the 22nd. But I don't get paid. Ever :-( Jun 14 09:34:38 zinge, internship? Jun 14 09:34:39 oh now that really sucks. Jun 14 09:34:42 yeah Jun 14 09:34:57 where at? Jun 14 09:35:00 internship with sony pictures imageworks Jun 14 09:35:04 ah, neat Jun 14 09:35:15 ahh.. the drm kingpins.. Jun 14 09:35:57 yeah, well. I'll be working on vfx hopefully. although they looked at my resume and mentioned something about making me do some web programming Jun 14 09:35:57 Thanks zinge for helping me out Jun 14 09:36:06 no prob Jun 14 09:36:30 see ya all later. g'nite Jun 14 09:36:44 I'm off to bed too. Night all. Jun 14 09:36:48 later, zinge Jun 14 09:37:12 maybe it would be easier just to sticka javascript telnet client in and connect to localhost. heh Jun 14 09:37:38 joshua: i haven't found a way to do sockets / tcp yet. Jun 14 09:37:41 what js telnet apps are there? Jun 14 09:37:58 i don't know, but i have seen ajax ssh clients Jun 14 09:38:09 they don't work right in the pre browser because of text input Jun 14 09:38:25 if one was just ported as a stand alone app maybe... then connect to your own pre Jun 14 09:38:36 those all have a serverside element, too... which make them laggy and stuff. Jun 14 09:38:41 afaik javascript can only make http request not pute tcp requests Jun 14 09:38:47 yeah, i was suspicious they would have a server-side Jun 14 09:38:54 electrofreak66 is right. Jun 14 09:39:00 it's a security hole if js could connect natively on arbitrary ports Jun 14 09:39:12 tcp / sockets need a bridge like a java applet or flash. Jun 14 09:39:25 they have all these palm Jun 14 09:39:31 well, those would be handled client-side Jun 14 09:39:36 palm:// handlers but id on't know where to get the list Jun 14 09:39:41 need sdk. heh Jun 14 09:39:45 yes, you do Jun 14 09:39:48 we all do Jun 14 09:39:50 yes Jun 14 09:40:38 i can't see the sdk adding any functionality i haven't already found, on the mojo side at least... Jun 14 09:41:00 err.. "revealing", not "adding" Jun 14 09:41:23 there *should* be a socket layer there somewhere Jun 14 09:41:23 otherwise that woudl be one crippled api Jun 14 09:41:55 i could have overlooked it, but i didn't see one in the mojo stuff.. and i haven't seen an app using it yet. Jun 14 09:42:08 well, the stuff in the current apps probably doesn't need it Jun 14 09:42:16 the browser might be an interesting place to look Jun 14 09:42:23 i haven't poked to odeeply into the apps myself Jun 14 09:42:33 hmm... didn't even think to look in the browser lol Jun 14 09:42:38 how else do you get the browser to display web apges? :) Jun 14 09:42:43 right, lol Jun 14 09:43:01 mail might be useful too Jun 14 09:43:07 mail more so Jun 14 09:43:28 the phone is making the tcp connection in this instance when it sends mail Jun 14 09:44:14 true Jun 14 09:44:17 checking both now. Jun 14 09:44:20 ok Jun 14 09:44:34 whys the vi on the pre freak out when i try to search a file with / Jun 14 09:44:37 annoying. heh Jun 14 09:44:48 oh wait that was less Jun 14 09:44:55 that explains it Jun 14 09:44:59 I'd be willing to bet anyone that this channel is 100% male Jun 14 09:45:13 ok, I got remote tracking working on the Pre. Jun 14 09:45:27 No iPhone got anything on us. Jun 14 09:45:28 bitches.. Jun 14 09:46:39 i'm female Jun 14 09:46:51 dysprosia, seriously? Jun 14 09:46:56 yeah, seriously :) Jun 14 09:47:10 holy shit, I feel terrible now Jun 14 09:47:15 hah Jun 14 09:47:24 awww lol Jun 14 09:48:03 joshua: have you tried using nano i like it better than vi Jun 14 09:48:08 ew, nano Jun 14 09:48:17 better than vi! Jun 14 09:48:26 newbies Jun 14 09:48:43 :) Jun 14 09:49:12 nano is awesome. Jun 14 09:49:27 not so new i have been dealing with linux for a while and found nano easier to use no remembering to insert this Jun 14 09:49:41 Anyone interested in remote tracking on the pre? Jun 14 09:50:11 what kind of... remote tracking? Jun 14 09:50:16 dysprosia: mail uses the dbus daemon com.palm.mail Jun 14 09:50:19 i only use nano when I am on some annoying freebsd box with stupid default vi config file that annoys me Jun 14 09:50:30 electrofreak: i won't get into an editor war with you, but there are some things you can do much easier with an editor like vi or *shudder* emacs than you can do with a dumb editor like nano Jun 14 09:50:38 joshua: what default config? Jun 14 09:50:51 evanpro: they hide the meat of sending mail away from you? aww :( Jun 14 09:50:52 dysprosia: ok Jun 14 09:50:57 like on freebsd it slips out of insert mode whenever you use arrow keys and all that Jun 14 09:51:07 drives me nuts Jun 14 09:51:13 dysprosia: i agree probabaly more powerful Jun 14 09:51:19 joshua: terminal's probably not set up right, because it gets interpreted as ^[[j or something like that Jun 14 09:51:31 use hjkl anyway Jun 14 09:52:14 electrofreak66, the kind you put on your ex Jun 14 09:52:15 i'll try that at work next time Jun 14 09:52:44 Sargun: ahh the gps kind? Jun 14 09:52:47 electrofreak66, yeah Jun 14 09:52:55 electrofreak66, kind of like the iPhone Jun 14 09:52:56 sargun, that's what my gps app i'm writing does Jun 14 09:52:57 lol Jun 14 09:53:08 EvanPro, the app I wrote already does Jun 14 09:53:09 posts gps coords to a url at intervals. Jun 14 09:53:10 also helpful when you loose you phone lol Jun 14 09:53:15 electrofreak66, yeah Jun 14 09:53:20 onSuccess: function(status){^M Jun 14 09:53:24 whattt? you wrote one already? Jun 14 09:53:24 //device_id = status.value; //not right.^M Jun 14 09:53:28 //device_id = Object.toJSON(status).value; //not right.^M Jun 14 09:53:29 EvanPro, yes ma'am Jun 14 09:53:32 //device_id = status.com.palm.properties.nduid; //not right.^M Jun 14 09:53:36 gimme, gimme. Jun 14 09:53:36 device_id = status["com.palm.properties.nduid"];//fuck yeah that's right.^M Jun 14 09:53:38 lol Jun 14 09:53:48 actually.. hardly matters now.. i'm alost done with mine. Jun 14 09:54:13 is that what yours does? just posts the gps coords to a url? Jun 14 09:54:31 texts the GPS coordinates to a URL Jun 14 09:54:33 RELIABLY Jun 14 09:54:39 Sargun: ooh Jun 14 09:54:47 texts? sms? Jun 14 09:54:48 err, s/URL/E-MAIL/ Jun 14 09:54:49 only as reliable as the gps gets you the coords ;) Jun 14 09:54:52 i like reliable Jun 14 09:55:02 hmm Jun 14 09:55:04 dysprosia, the palm pre's location API does some other stuff to get locations Jun 14 09:55:37 Sargun, are you goign to open source that baby? or should i keep working on mine? Jun 14 09:55:40 so this is a script that runs every so often with cron or what? Jun 14 09:55:47 you can improve something with assistance or triangulation, but they have their downsides too Jun 14 09:56:14 EvanPro, mine doesn't have a GUI Jun 14 09:56:19 and is very hacked/minimalistic Jun 14 09:56:31 dysprosia, they do? Jun 14 09:56:44 oh, hmm... Jun 14 09:56:47 A-GPS doesn't always work as well indoors, at least i've found Jun 14 09:56:55 i'll keep working on mine :) Jun 14 09:57:00 triangulation gets you a reasonable range, but it's not pinpoint like gps outdoors can be Jun 14 09:57:13 at least, so i've found Jun 14 09:57:35 you definitely still need partial sky access for A-GPS Jun 14 09:59:58 ya thats the S Jun 14 10:00:13 lol Jun 14 10:00:21 I am tired Jun 14 10:00:33 i'm getting there. Jun 14 10:00:47 dysprosia, WiFi Jun 14 10:00:57 dysprosia, it searches for WiFi access points Jun 14 10:01:07 huh, okay Jun 14 10:01:10 i never liked the idea, though Jun 14 10:01:14 what if someone moves their AP? :) Jun 14 10:01:17 dysprosia, it does cell based location, which can be pretty accurate (+/- 500 meters) Jun 14 10:01:33 yes, but you still have a +/- 500m tolerance to worry about Jun 14 10:01:45 yeah, and wifi on top of that.... Jun 14 10:01:57 well, wifi location is new Jun 14 10:02:06 so, if someone moves their AP 500 meters Jun 14 10:03:15 well, i'll have to try it when it comes out here :) Jun 14 10:03:42 anyway, i should go to bed before my head explodes from the pain Jun 14 10:04:01 hmm what about the java on the pre, can you use any of those functions from luna? Jun 14 10:04:19 oasis Jun 14 10:04:22 of course Jun 14 10:04:36 i haven't personally tried. Jun 14 10:04:43 all kinds of goodies inside these jar files if you unzip em Jun 14 10:04:57 like what Jun 14 10:05:02 my stupid mojo tap events aren't binding. Jun 14 10:06:37 I/O functions in the java Jun 14 10:06:46 http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/nio/channels/SocketChannel.html Jun 14 10:08:09 EvanPro, haha Jun 14 10:08:14 bash > MoJo. Jun 14 10:08:27 Sargun, shhh. i'll get it. Jun 14 10:17:20 * EvanPro sighs. Jun 14 10:17:26 this is going to have to wait until tomorrow. Jun 14 10:17:52 i need to get to sleep so i'm not screwed on monday... er.. tomorrow. Jun 14 10:18:25 g'night Sargun Jun 14 10:18:35 (and whoever's left in here) Jun 14 10:18:37 don't sleep Jun 14 10:18:45 psh Jun 14 10:19:08 maybe if these mojo events were working... Jun 14 10:21:11 ok Jun 14 10:21:15 http://predev.wikidot.com/tracking Jun 14 10:21:30 read it Jun 14 10:21:33 then you can sleep Jun 14 10:22:33 nicee Jun 14 10:22:35 * EvanPro reads Jun 14 10:23:54 nice work, Sargun. Jun 14 10:24:30 we'll add my app to that page when it's done. Jun 14 10:24:36 since it accomplishes the same thing. Jun 14 10:24:41 just with a gui. Jun 14 10:27:22 i was just thinking if we added noatime to fstab if that would speed things up but palm already has it. heh Jun 14 10:50:04 Sargun: (backlog, Re: 100% male comment): I know that one person in this channel at least has a name that doesn't sound male ... Jun 14 10:50:36 (make that two now) Jun 14 10:58:40 okay, now i'm really going to sleep. Jun 14 11:02:50 man some of these guys on the forum have like 2500 posts already, thats kinda crazy seeing as the phone wasn't even out till a week ago. heh Jun 14 11:02:57 EvanPro: going to sleep? i just got to work! Jun 14 11:03:09 haha Jun 14 11:03:17 well i'm trying, but i keep getting distracted. Jun 14 11:03:51 heh Jun 14 11:03:54 joshua: what is kinda strange, that everybody sees aplm, as it should be opensourced. (re, and such) Jun 14 11:04:05 there were no such thing back in iphone start Jun 14 11:17:44 hey guys Jun 14 12:20:28 test Jun 14 13:10:17 #webos Jun 14 13:16:58 so does developer mode just enable the novacom interface in the device? Jun 14 13:24:49 timepants: yes Jun 14 13:24:58 ah ok, thanks Jun 14 13:26:02 this thing is a blast Jun 14 13:26:07 yes it is Jun 14 13:26:28 i've been waiting for a device that i could hack around with and also has all of these features for years Jun 14 13:26:37 dream come true Jun 14 13:26:50 just need a terminal app for the gui and i'm golden Jun 14 13:26:51 lol, well remember "have fun!" Jun 14 13:27:09 i heard some guys talking about working on one last night Jun 14 13:27:33 they work/talk a lot around these parts Jun 14 13:27:43 haha Jun 14 13:28:05 just stay away from Sargun and you'll be ok ;) Jun 14 13:30:28 step 1, remove ads from accuweather app Jun 14 13:30:28 haha Jun 14 13:35:05 done. Jun 14 13:39:29 has anyone figured out all the Pmcommands???? Jun 14 13:39:40 what should we be doing with them if anything? Jun 14 13:39:53 some seem to be testing commands for various things, others ???? Jun 14 13:55:50 someone left a whole boatload of developer contact information in here Jun 14 13:56:37 i'm not sure if its dummy info or what but its kinda like oops Jun 14 13:57:26 there is stuff everywhere..... Jun 14 13:57:46 yeah i was looking through the contact app source specifically and there's about 20 names, addresses, and phone numbers Jun 14 13:59:05 i think palm is watching us for their "clean up list"... :) Jun 14 13:59:19 well there you go Jun 14 13:59:23 heh, free QA Jun 14 13:59:29 yea cheap labor Jun 14 13:59:30 lol Jun 14 13:59:51 yea sure guys, have fun, see what you can do 8-) Jun 14 14:00:57 i'd love to find a way to get aim nicknames off of the contacts list Jun 14 14:01:03 thats my next chore Jun 14 14:01:04 /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/app/controllers/launcher-assistant.js Jun 14 14:01:09 eep sorry bad paste Jun 14 14:01:21 well many folks are here too it seems Jun 14 14:01:29 guess depends on who ya wanna talk to... Jun 14 14:01:48 working it myself at the moment Jun 14 14:02:05 doing anything in particular or just lookin? Jun 14 14:02:26 i'm just bouncing around some of the different apps looking for things i can tweak Jun 14 14:02:29 PmTpUpdater Jun 14 14:02:35 PmUpdater Jun 14 14:02:40 PmUpdaterInitGraphics Jun 14 14:02:48 anyone have any ideas on these commands? Jun 14 14:02:59 where are those, /usr/bin? Jun 14 14:03:13 yea type Pm then hit Jun 14 14:03:50 well if you use the command "strings" against them you can get a feel for what their purposes is Jun 14 14:03:59 it looks like they're there for rebuilding the device image Jun 14 14:04:09 lots of mount/remount/mkfs and so on Jun 14 14:04:54 i have been, but was wondering if anyone has a better/more official list of all these commands.... Jun 14 14:05:05 gotcha Jun 14 14:05:17 any ideas why chat would be useful? ie /usr/sbin/chat? Jun 14 14:06:33 The chat program defines a conversational exchange between the computer and the modem. Its primary purpose is to establish the connection between the Point-to-Point Protocol Daemon (pppd) and the remote's pppd process. Jun 14 14:06:45 it looks like its an enhanced version of that Jun 14 14:07:03 .... Jun 14 14:07:17 Hey folks, just wanted to mention that I created a place on the wiki for Stock Application Mods - http://predev.wikidot.com/stock-application-mods Jun 14 14:07:18 tellbootie... thats look like fun Jun 14 14:07:25 heya scuba_steve Jun 14 14:07:38 hey scuba steve, been looking at that page actually Jun 14 14:07:45 There is only one mod in there now - adding timestamps to all messages received in the message app Jun 14 14:07:47 thanks for that, i already put in your timestamp mod Jun 14 14:08:03 i have one for you to disable ads in the accuweather app if you're interested Jun 14 14:08:27 timepants, sign up for a wiki account, do it yourself :) Jun 14 14:08:39 well my fear is that its against some license somewhere Jun 14 14:08:40 Sure...glad to do it. I plan to refine and add a little more later, but so many folks had asked, that I wanted to get version 1.0 out there Jun 14 14:08:57 the file header is like "don't ever access this file" Jun 14 14:09:03 i'm like D: Jun 14 14:09:04 lol Jun 14 14:09:14 thats like an invitation to come on in huh Jun 14 14:10:03 haha well i'm not afraid to do stuff to my own device Jun 14 14:10:04 hmmmm Jun 14 14:10:08 its the public aspect thats a little shakier Jun 14 14:10:16 tellbootie rebooted my pre Jun 14 14:10:37 Yes, I think that change would violate the AccuWeather license. It's a pretty decent app and the advertisement isn't that bad...and I don't want to discourage new development. they are going with ad-sponsored instead of charging for it, so there you go :) Jun 14 14:11:06 yeah i understand Jun 14 14:11:15 it was my first experiment so i gave it a try Jun 14 14:11:29 Don't want to do anything that encourages Palm to slam the device closed ;) Jun 14 14:11:36 i don't mind the ad but the animation on it annoys the pants off of me Jun 14 14:12:25 so i'll keep it to myself for now Jun 14 14:12:34 I bet we''ll be seeing about 50 weather apps before too long ;) Jun 14 14:12:43 its a pretty nice one though Jun 14 14:13:02 its cool that its location aware also Jun 14 14:13:03 yea weather apps will be hello world for pre... Jun 14 14:14:19 oh this tracker script is cool Jun 14 14:14:20 Yes, I like it too. Glad to see such high-quality development. Jun 14 14:15:00 Okay...well just wanted to say hi. I'm out for now...take care all. Cheers. Jun 14 14:15:07 * bdumm waves Jun 14 14:15:51 good morning Jun 14 14:16:02 moaning bpadalino, any new news on that driver? Jun 14 14:16:06 want tests? Jun 14 14:16:21 bdumm, well, geist gave me some verification last night ... Jun 14 14:16:22 ever play with tellbootie? Jun 14 14:16:26 :) Jun 14 14:16:39 tellbootie puts the device into bootie mode, doesn't it ? Jun 14 14:16:51 i think i ran it once and it rebooted my device Jun 14 14:16:52 it just reset mine when i did tellbootie --help Jun 14 14:17:14 how do i know if i am in bootie mode? ie it seems like normal boot/mode? Jun 14 14:17:24 look at your usb device list .. Jun 14 14:17:33 it will come up as "bootie" instead of Palm i think Jun 14 14:18:55 the bootie mode is when you hold the up button and then plug in the USB from the "off" state Jun 14 14:19:01 up volume button Jun 14 14:35:06 hmm so i'm starting to make some stuff thats harder to describe every change that needs to be put in Jun 14 14:35:24 any suggestions for the best way to describe it, since I know we don't want to post copyrighted stuff to the wiki Jun 14 14:43:36 I want to change the google contacts to sync only "my contacts" not "all contacts", where do I look? Jun 14 14:45:54 20 minutes in the future - the option doesn't exist i believe Jun 14 14:47:12 bo904, use search to find any contacts instead Jun 14 14:47:30 bpadalino: any ideas on why I didn't get a wikidot email? Jun 14 14:47:36 confirmation account email... Jun 14 14:48:14 I'm looking to changed the code, I know how to use the phone. Jun 14 14:48:49 oh sorry, i don't think there is such code??? ie they use search? Jun 14 14:49:13 bo904, there are a few layers here .. i believe there is a gdata.jar file which is what accesses google data Jun 14 14:49:23 if there is a way to query google for just my contacts versus all contacts .. Jun 14 14:49:29 that call would be required Jun 14 14:49:44 bo904, if you want to get into the programming side of things - read about dbus Jun 14 14:49:51 dbus is used heavily for IPC in the pre Jun 14 14:50:15 i'd actually love it for someone to scan the dbus for registered methods and their parameters Jun 14 14:50:22 we would probably find all sorts of things Jun 14 14:52:12 hey guys, can someone take a look at the sftp wiki page... it's still referring to the Palm ipkg. Jun 14 14:55:17 what does palmsniffer sniff? Jun 14 14:55:30 bluetooth i think ? Jun 14 14:55:39 ah thx Jun 14 14:58:10 * bdumm ponders how much room / would have w/o all this extra useless stuff... Jun 14 14:58:30 define useless ? Jun 14 14:58:43 Nascar? Jun 14 14:58:46 well for example rsync, don't they use curl? so rsync is for? Jun 14 14:58:51 nascar is on /var isn't it ? Jun 14 14:58:58 just kidding Jun 14 14:59:01 i am not talking Pre apps Jun 14 14:59:08 i mean coreos apps Jun 14 14:59:13 mke2fs is another Jun 14 14:59:41 I don't think it'd have a lot, plus Palm may want to use to use 'em in the future Jun 14 14:59:53 they left gdb which is like 3 megs Jun 14 14:59:56 without actually actually sending it down with an OTA update Jun 14 15:00:06 i think the libraries probably take up more space than the binaries ? Jun 14 15:00:20 you can do a du with a certain directory depth Jun 14 15:00:31 to see how much is utilized in each different directory Jun 14 15:01:15 du -a /var | sort -n -r | head -n 25 #top 25 directories taking up most space Jun 14 15:01:32 under var Jun 14 15:01:37 mine was simplier du |sort -nr|less ;-p Jun 14 15:01:59 if I run heavy under root it just crashes my phone Jun 14 15:02:09 like a global grep Jun 14 15:02:29 modem, luna, jvm, palmos/rom0 ipkg gconv are big dirs in /usr/lib Jun 14 15:03:21 WordToGoModule.so Jun 14 15:03:23 yeah - so the libs are going to take up most of the space Jun 14 15:03:26 whats this part of? Jun 14 15:03:30 Office ? Jun 14 15:03:34 to read .doc ? Jun 14 15:03:40 ah Jun 14 15:03:59 anyone tried stripping the libs/bins? Jun 14 15:04:17 bootie, trenchcoat to flash and now stripping ?! Jun 14 15:04:22 what are those palm guys thinking !! Jun 14 15:04:44 i think thats the reason for all the secretivity Jun 14 15:06:42 "unable to get 'My Contacts' system group, new contacts will appear under 'Suggested Contacts'... java/lang/Exception $error fetching google contact groups " Jun 14 15:07:34 interesting Jun 14 15:07:40 bo904: how did you get that error ? Jun 14 15:08:08 i didnt it looks like its from the java file Jun 14 15:08:51 interesting Jun 14 15:08:58 in pimsync.jar - gmailcontactsyncservice2.class Jun 14 15:09:39 pimsync.jar\com\palm\pimsync\services Jun 14 15:11:22 hey all Jun 14 15:13:22 does anyone have any tricks on how to create a browser plugin on the pre ? Jun 14 15:13:27 neato Jun 14 15:13:30 time for breakfast for me Jun 14 15:21:21 there looks like the is code for chosing contacts by groups Jun 14 15:22:14 Finally Jun 14 15:22:30 synergy in contacts salvation Jun 14 15:24:26 i dont want to post the code, but it looks like the contact group is hard coded as "contacts" Jun 14 15:29:02 has any body looked how it filters contact when you want to send an mms so that it displays the emails also? right now it displays only the phone numbers Jun 14 15:33:28 it should be "All Contacts" Jun 14 15:33:40 also, it would take about 30 seconds after rooting a device, to disable remote wipe, or better yet, fooling the server that a remote wipe worked... Jun 14 15:35:13 grr i need an sdk Jun 14 15:35:29 my first app doesnt show anything on the screen even though it appeared to work with that sample thing :( Jun 14 15:35:42 that provides the framework to work with chrome or safari Jun 14 15:36:55 oh i think i know why Jun 14 15:37:42 anyone here done the nes emulator and/or directfb yet? Jun 14 15:38:34 I'm creating a slickdeals top deals app Jun 14 15:38:51 nice Jun 14 15:39:05 did we figure out how to view logs yet? Jun 14 15:39:15 or get some debugging info like why my app crashes? Jun 14 15:39:25 crash meaning I get a white screen Jun 14 15:40:01 look through /var/log/ Jun 14 15:40:29 ok cool Jun 14 15:45:43 what a pita to debug this way :( Jun 14 15:45:47 EPTION [_onAddLaunchpointButtonTap], (TypeError): "", file:///var/usr/palm/applications/com.blau.app.helloworld/index.html:0 Jun 14 15:48:05 can you launch the app from the terminal? Jun 14 15:48:10 or you have to tap the icon? Jun 14 15:53:25 http://download.cnet.com/Morfik-WebOS-AppsBuilder/3000-2069_4-10776637.html Jun 14 15:53:55 is that legit? Jun 14 15:54:20 is on download.com so i think yes Jun 14 15:56:51 i think it's just one of those "our apps can run on an y platform frameworks" Jun 14 15:56:54 i could be wrong though Jun 14 15:57:18 which is still cool but i want the damn real sdk Jun 14 15:57:44 blau-mikeDG: i just bought the book Jun 14 15:57:49 this is as close as you can get for now Jun 14 15:57:52 yeah Jun 14 15:58:14 and if its not out in the next month, we can just write our own documentation Jun 14 15:58:29 i dont have to much programming skills since im kinda of a network guy Jun 14 15:58:46 programming is easy Jun 14 15:58:53 anybody can do it Jun 14 15:58:54 has anyone figured out how to call native commands from mojo? Jun 14 15:59:02 but i want a app that can search on geocaching.com based on my location Jun 14 15:59:34 and i see that the pre has already apps that workk like that Jun 14 15:59:48 lol Jun 14 16:00:09 crash_pr: do it Jun 14 16:00:15 that's another good question, have we figured out access to the gps? Jun 14 16:00:17 the associate pres app looks for news on my area based on logation Jun 14 16:00:18 looking for help rooting my pre. firewall and av are turned off, but am receiving [Errno 10061] No connection could be made because the target machine actively refused it. i installed the x64 novacomm driver. Jun 14 16:00:20 you just send in ur location Jun 14 16:00:28 does it have a public api? Jun 14 16:00:57 MyNameIsJon, you get that when you run talk.py or what? novaproxy? Jun 14 16:00:59 the gps? I don't know, that's what I'm asking. I'd be surprised if it didn't Jun 14 16:01:05 talk.py Jun 14 16:01:13 which version did you install? what os? Jun 14 16:01:18 im taking about geocaching.com Jun 14 16:01:40 i was following instructions from the pre dev wiki Jun 14 16:01:47 loking for it but theres already an iphone and blackberry app Jun 14 16:01:54 I meant to say, which version of python did you install Jun 14 16:01:59 the linked 2.6? Jun 14 16:02:07 yes Jun 14 16:02:10 what OS? Jun 14 16:02:19 actually ended up with 2.62. windows7 x64 Jun 14 16:02:33 don't think anybody has been able to get it to work in win7 Jun 14 16:02:45 you can run the XP virtualmachine though and do it through that Jun 14 16:02:51 as in no one has tried, or others have had issues Jun 14 16:02:55 had issues Jun 14 16:03:04 they ended up doing it in "xp mode" Jun 14 16:03:07 if you know what that is Jun 14 16:03:12 i wish i could, this cpu doesn't support it. I will try on another computer I guess Jun 14 16:03:24 vmware works mynameisjohn Jun 14 16:03:27 you can only do xp mode if your cpu supports it? didn't know that Jun 14 16:03:27 which means I need to fix my main desktop now... Jun 14 16:03:31 so does virtualbox Jun 14 16:03:32 I got the errno 10061 while trying to do it from windows 7 ran it from vista in vmware and it worked Jun 14 16:03:57 well, I'll either get my main desktop working again, or use my 32bit xp laptop Jun 14 16:04:16 it should go through fine once you do that Jun 14 16:04:52 the funny thing is being able to turn on call log details for the catylst for me actually getting off my rear and starting to root it. Before I saw that in the wiki, I was content to wait for a bit. Jun 14 16:05:21 funny how that option is always there but disabled Jun 14 16:05:45 Yeah, even on the treos Jun 14 16:06:28 that was one of the first things I'd do when I upgraded treos was look for a new Phone_SPCS.prc Jun 14 16:07:52 is it disabled on all palm stuff or just on sprint? Jun 14 16:08:44 I think all palm. there were different versions taht would change the evdo/1x icons in the status bar and also whether the end of call dialog would come up or not Jun 14 16:09:50 anything new been figured out since last night? Jun 14 16:16:02 http://www.geocaching.com/iPhone/default.aspx something like this Jun 14 16:17:47 i got some stuff figured out last night. ill post them when i get back from renton. bbl. Jun 14 16:20:41 rawdr: Ran talk.py from my xp x32 machine, and got the expected results. checking it out now, thanks Jun 14 16:35:39 hi everyone Jun 14 16:36:26 good i finally got irssi compiling on my macbook Jun 14 16:36:30 how lame is that....the only day I'm able to get to the sprint store to get a pre.....and their systems are down Jun 14 16:37:13 what's the system for? Jun 14 16:37:21 can't you just activate it yourself? Jun 14 16:37:44 apparently its their entire system Jun 14 16:37:48 they can't even sell me the phone Jun 14 16:37:57 doh Jun 14 16:37:59 brb Jun 14 16:39:31 nice guys....you're blowin up engadget as of late Jun 14 17:11:14 aStageController.swapScene('chatview',chatThreadId,{clearListBadgeFn:this.clearListBadgeForCh atThreadId.bind(this,chatThreadId)}); Jun 14 17:11:19 anything look wayyy wrong with that? Jun 14 17:15:08 halfway towards maing the messaging app pop out new chats! Jun 14 17:19:10 into separate cards? Jun 14 17:19:53 yeah Jun 14 17:20:42 that would be cool Jun 14 17:20:42 i got the seperate card portion working but its just a blank card so im assuming theres some error that i cant debug :/ Jun 14 17:23:17 its a pain to test too cause messages seems to get cached Jun 14 17:23:22 so i have to kill luna Jun 14 17:23:54 ah, tethering now off limits :> Jun 14 17:26:17 tethering is off-limits? Jun 14 17:26:26 hi Jun 14 17:26:42 I can't tell what's a joke and what isn't Jun 14 17:27:47 Who decides that tethering is off limits? IRC is like the wild west! Jun 14 17:28:02 This is the least wild-westy IRC channel I've ever been in Jun 14 17:28:04 yes, tethering is off limits Jun 14 17:28:33 that's cool - it will make no difference :) Jun 14 17:28:33 heh I got lots of images folders showing in my photos now Jun 14 17:28:37 what does "unlimited data" mean without the ability to tether Jun 14 17:28:37 summatusmentis: someone should update the wiki's tethering page then, 'xplaining Jun 14 17:28:45 we don't want to make sprint (and subsequently Palm) dislike us, because we'd like to keep a good relationship with them Jun 14 17:28:47 OrionPK: it's pretty clear what it means Jun 14 17:28:52 OrionPK: It means 5GB Jun 14 17:28:57 sam1am: no, it won't, we'd just prefer discussion not take place here Jun 14 17:28:59 lol Jun 14 17:29:13 dammit Jun 14 17:29:19 by the way, it looks like this is a lowlevel query to sprint asking if tethering is permitted Jun 14 17:29:23 the optware tutorial must have been updated again Jun 14 17:29:25 sam1am: is that .. per what? Jun 14 17:29:32 because if i follow the sftp tutorial Jun 14 17:29:32 aubilenon: the person who runs the channel doesn't run the blog, and I haven't seen the person who runs the blog yet Jun 14 17:29:35 i've got missing files :/ Jun 14 17:29:36 boj87: what? Jun 14 17:29:39 aubilenon: per month Jun 14 17:29:43 can we talk about tethering in general? Jun 14 17:29:45 summatusmentis: ah Jun 14 17:29:58 cant talk about it Jun 14 17:30:00 ie, not circumventing anything Jun 14 17:30:19 boj87: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying Jun 14 17:30:45 oh, or the tutorial is wrong Jun 14 17:30:56 OrionPK: I've been told that discussion of tethering will cause $big_company to take notice, and get angry Jun 14 17:30:57 it looks like the phone queries sprint asking if teathering is permitted before blocking it Jun 14 17:31:04 i think here Jun 14 17:31:05 http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access Jun 14 17:31:08 has anyone gotten this working on Windows Vista/7 and/or linux? Jun 14 17:31:11 step 3, shouldn't be sbin, just bin Jun 14 17:31:25 k, I dont mean to circumvent or violate the TOS Jun 14 17:31:33 I just want to criticize sprint for disallowing it:) Jun 14 17:31:47 can tether it via bluetooth if you are using wifi Jun 14 17:31:59 really, any service provider that artificially limits the capabilities of its phones should be a wide open target Jun 14 17:32:01 which serves no purpose lol Jun 14 17:32:03 “That price includes unlimited data,” he told me. Really? So I can watch 12 hours of Hulu and Netflix a day, every day, and it’s still the same price? “No,” he said. “There’s a 5 gigabyte cap. Which is the industry standard.” But that’s not “unlimited,” is it? Quote: “We define ‘unlimited’ as 5 gigabytes.”) Jun 14 17:32:06 in otherwords its fully built in and sprint can activate it when they want Jun 14 17:32:07 http://www.suntimes.com/business/1620099,ihnatko-palm-pre-overview061209.article Jun 14 17:32:23 thats hilarious sam Jun 14 17:32:27 tethering generally uses more data than on the handset itself Jun 14 17:32:31 boj87: could, but they don't Jun 14 17:32:39 not necessarily agentsmith Jun 14 17:32:43 like on verizon's blackberry service, they allow "unlimited" data on the handset Jun 14 17:32:45 and therefore, it's currently against ToS Jun 14 17:32:48 but if you sign up for tethering there's a 5GB cap Jun 14 17:32:48 just because you're tethered doesnt mean you're torrenting Jun 14 17:32:56 doesn't even mean torrenting Jun 14 17:33:09 full fledged computers are capable of pushing more bits than a handset itself Jun 14 17:33:18 it definately means you're doing something bad - maybe part of a sleeper cell or something Jun 14 17:33:19 good god Jun 14 17:33:19 I've only ever used tethering for irc and web browsing Jun 14 17:33:24 you can't trust tetherers Jun 14 17:33:29 i had to torrent for awhile on my treo 650 tethered Jun 14 17:33:31 they have more control over the limited usage on the handsets, they have to make sure users don't overwhelm the data network and bring every user down Jun 14 17:33:34 that, was a task Jun 14 17:33:36 I think these days it has more to do w/ the speed of the network than the size of your device, smith Jun 14 17:33:45 I'm sure I was browsing much faster so it was using more data Jun 14 17:33:55 I mean even on your phone you can clock in at 1.6mbit, thats faster than a lot of DSL connections Jun 14 17:34:05 especially than I would have with Blazer Jun 14 17:34:14 (and downloading images, css, etc) Jun 14 17:34:32 I was also browsing more than I would have with Blazer where I would get frustrated by how shitty it was and quit Jun 14 17:34:33 sure you can clock in at 1.6Mbit but can you open 30 tabs at the same time and also check your email and download a file via sftp while also IMing and listening to an internet stream and queuing up a music video and a 650 MB windows update? not so much Jun 14 17:34:34 when I was a flight attendant, tethering was convenient on my instinct because I could surf for free when the airport didn't have free wifi. I didn't want have to pay to check the loads on flts Jun 14 17:34:52 lol Jun 14 17:34:56 650mb windows update? Jun 14 17:35:01 I think you're exaggerating a bit Jun 14 17:35:12 you dont have to use a lot of bandwidth just because you're on an actual PC Jun 14 17:35:12 regardless of semantics this is what they worry about Jun 14 17:35:25 they can always cut you off though Jun 14 17:35:28 because you know there's the idiot out there that will do that Jun 14 17:35:30 when you reach your cap Jun 14 17:35:35 or they can charge you out the nose if you go over Jun 14 17:35:38 I say they just tell you what the cap is and let you do whatever the hell you want with it Jun 14 17:35:44 but that means more expense to them, traffic shaping, deep packet inspection Jun 14 17:35:49 compiz-fusion on the pre Jun 14 17:35:54 sam1am: +1 Jun 14 17:35:54 idk about that Jun 14 17:35:59 it should be really easy to exceed 5 gb in a month with pandora Jun 14 17:36:17 even if the option was there, it wouldnt mean that hundreds of people would suddenly jump on it Jun 14 17:36:23 and bring down sprint's wireless network Jun 14 17:36:26 with their palm pres Jun 14 17:36:27 you don't need hundreds of people Jun 14 17:36:41 though I guess that's probably around 40 or 50 mb/ hour so maybe not Jun 14 17:36:47 many cell sites only have one or two T1 lines going to them, when you snarf up the max DL on the data link they suddenly have 80 less voice channels available on the backhaul Jun 14 17:36:49 I used to stream radio on my palm centro every day on my commute so 3 hours a day of streaming radio and podcasts and I would pull 1 gig a month. Jun 14 17:36:51 I think you're overestimating the differences between a phone and a laptop Jun 14 17:36:58 or more specifically, THIS phone Jun 14 17:37:07 so, anyone manage to get root access working on Windows 7? Jun 14 17:37:14 Sprint had like a billion people leave them over the last few years, so they should have capacity to spare on their network Jun 14 17:37:18 XP virtual machine rrryanc Jun 14 17:37:22 this is true sam Jun 14 17:37:23 I think probably it's more of a question of allowing them to sell tethering as a value-add Jun 14 17:37:31 alright, so still not native Jun 14 17:37:32 exactly Jun 14 17:37:33 which is why they hopefully won't hork like AT&T did when the iphone came out Jun 14 17:37:38 and linux I assume the same? Jun 14 17:37:40 since if they're concerned about usage, bandwidth caps are really a better answer Jun 14 17:37:40 aubleon: true true Jun 14 17:37:43 but it's still a risk Jun 14 17:37:50 since you *can* download data plenty fast on a phone Jun 14 17:37:55 so is the place for tethering discussion the "other" channel? Jun 14 17:38:27 they don't currently sell tethering at all, right? Jun 14 17:38:49 not for pre i don't think Jun 14 17:38:53 http://nextelonline.nextel.com/NASApp/onlinestore/en/Action/DisplayPhones?filterString=Mobile_Broadband_Devices_Phone_Char&id12=UHP_PhonesTab_Link_MobileBroadbandCards Jun 14 17:38:56 oops Jun 14 17:39:02 haha Jun 14 17:39:03 they sell mobile broadband cards Jun 14 17:39:11 hey if you get 4G service and are in a wimax area you get "Unlimited!" Jun 14 17:39:15 but only on 4G Jun 14 17:39:20 unlimited in one place! Jun 14 17:39:28 where is 4G? Jun 14 17:39:39 Palm Pre v.2.0 = Wimax + tethering included Jun 14 17:39:40 that page said baltimore Jun 14 17:40:25 anyone been able to sftp in? Jun 14 17:40:39 Palm Pre v.2.0 = Tight Keyboard Slider I hope Jun 14 17:40:43 I don't have a Pre yet, so I haven't been able to Jun 14 17:41:02 has anyone set smb share Jun 14 17:41:07 I'm more excited about the Palm Pre 3.0 since i'm more likely to get one of those Jun 14 17:41:10 (since i have a 1.0) Jun 14 17:41:35 What is the upgrade policy? Is it like AT&T where you have to wait 18 month? Jun 14 17:41:46 (I'm just now switching to Sprint) Jun 14 17:41:48 upgrading every other generation is my personal upgrade policy. :D Jun 14 17:41:52 aubilenon: if your premier or whatever u can upgrade every year Jun 14 17:41:52 oh and OrionPK don't get me wrong I'm all about teh tether - back in the day I found a loophole in Verizon's network for free tethering with any unactivated phone...and told them about it several times....and they told me to shut up and enjoy the freedom Jun 14 17:42:17 heh Jun 14 17:42:18 wallace: So how do I get premier? Just wait 10 years? Jun 14 17:42:26 anyone messed around with dynamic dns clients yet? Jun 14 17:42:35 10 years'll pass like that! Jun 14 17:42:39 got it!!!!@ Jun 14 17:42:47 new cards for every chat convo Jun 14 17:42:55 tutorial soon :) Jun 14 17:42:59 sam1am: im not sure of the specifics but i haven't had them but 7 years and my rate plan is the $69 one Jun 14 17:43:46 blau-mikeDG: what about txt forwarding? :-D Jun 14 17:43:56 wallace: Maybe I can talk to sales guy into just giving me premier Jun 14 17:43:57 blau-mikeDG: good news! thanks for keeping the internals chat going :) Jun 14 17:44:28 :) Jun 14 17:44:47 are the notification, global search and now messaging mods going to survive an OTA update? Jun 14 17:45:28 porbably not, so just make sure you backup :) Jun 14 17:45:56 argh Jun 14 17:46:02 Seems like you could create a script where you input the new search provider and it does all the nitty gritty work Jun 14 17:46:23 to make getting back up and running super easy Jun 14 17:46:38 yeah but for people who ditched twitter it gets harder Jun 14 17:46:48 cause twitter has some stuff that relies o nit being last Jun 14 17:46:53 lets say the push an update for PIN, swipe of the email app, will it affect other apps? do they push a whole new image to the phone Jun 14 17:46:53 or imdb is last in my case Jun 14 17:49:54 need one mroe fix, jump to an open stge Jun 14 17:50:32 anyboyd know where the appcatalog app is...i wanna see how the get apps added without a reboot Jun 14 17:50:44 appfinder Jun 14 17:50:49 i think Jun 14 17:50:56 * konsoleX is under the impression that dropbear doesn't do sftp.... Jun 14 17:51:16 that be it Jun 14 17:52:41 cool Jun 14 17:52:42 thanks Jun 14 17:53:54 its awesome how theres no comments in their code Jun 14 17:56:42 hrmph... well i can just tar stuff up and rename it to .pdf and email it to myself... heh Jun 14 17:57:07 konsoleX: scp? Jun 14 17:57:55 hrm Jun 14 17:58:02 what should the default port be for winscp sftp on the pre? Jun 14 17:58:19 whatever dropbear is listening on Jun 14 17:58:26 what is it now, 222? Jun 14 17:58:32 yeah 222 Jun 14 17:59:54 konsoleX: did you try scp? Jun 14 17:59:56 hey all Jun 14 18:00:21 am i correct in saying that rooting still does not work on Win7? Jun 14 18:00:44 DarthPooh: i ended up using XP mode and it worked ok from within the VM Jun 14 18:00:52 but yeah it doesn't seem to work still natively Jun 14 18:00:59 ehh... i tried a variety of sftp connections and eventually got what i wanted in the silly fashion i explained above.. tar then rename to pdf in the /media/internal folder Jun 14 18:01:16 timepants, i thought so... bullocks Jun 14 18:03:12 10061 error within win7 stinks. well off to get my mini mac Jun 14 18:03:58 if you can find the xp mode installer, that works ok in 7 Jun 14 18:04:28 DarthPooh: make sure it's an intel one... the .dmg is intel-only. Jun 14 18:04:53 this is what's needed to make dropbear serve sftp Jun 14 18:04:55 http://www.cybermilitia.net/2009/02/28/dropbear-on-debian/ Jun 14 18:05:02 more-or-less Jun 14 18:05:15 too much work Jun 14 18:06:50 i love it how people troll on forums Jun 14 18:07:06 now i have to post another video about nes Jun 14 18:07:51 the nes emulator is just ran in classic, right? i mean... i have hexen on my 755p that could probably run inside of classic... Jun 14 18:08:18 http://predev.wikidot.com/nintendo Jun 14 18:08:36 looks like can run the NES emulator natively Jun 14 18:08:39 oh... not classic :) Jun 14 18:09:29 nebula: most games work? Jun 14 18:09:41 djbclark, thanks for looking out, i've rooted already, just didnt feel like getting my dell hackintosh ;) it's downstairs Jun 14 18:09:47 is someone considering making an ipkg of that instead of requiring a full blown make environment Jun 14 18:10:27 vandi: i made engadget ;) Jun 14 18:10:39 too bad i haven't figured out keymapping yet :( Jun 14 18:10:41 http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/14/pre-gets-nes-emulation-in-linux-our-thumbs-are-in-for-a-world-o/ Jun 14 18:11:08 yeah, saw that, congrats Jun 14 18:11:14 thanks Jun 14 18:11:29 so the games run, but you can't play them? Jun 14 18:11:41 yeah, which sucks until i find out how to map keys Jun 14 18:12:01 heh.. yeah Jun 14 18:12:51 good luck with that. Jun 14 18:18:30 http://predev.wikidot.com/carded-messaging Jun 14 18:18:45 grr it shuts off wifi even if you're connected... as soon as the screen turns off on battery Jun 14 18:21:17 timepants: plugging in the USB cable keeps WIFI active Jun 14 18:23:40 mike Jun 14 18:23:54 was it ever confirmed that the drag appmenu thing worked, so long as you took out none of the existing code? Jun 14 18:23:58 the wiki is phrased... odd Jun 14 18:25:25 fum: i dont know why it seemed so finnicky, but i have it perfectly working now Jun 14 18:25:35 fuman: wanna edit it to make it sound nicer? Jun 14 18:25:47 so whats new, folks ? Jun 14 18:26:08 i have no issues now, and i had some funkiness with blank lines for some reason Jun 14 18:26:47 blau-mikeDG, i can, i just dont understand what the program was Jun 14 18:26:56 originally you were taking out tap, and now you just leave it in, but add drag also? Jun 14 18:27:03 oh i always left the tap in Jun 14 18:27:12 drag and tap i felt was the best way Jun 14 18:27:18 hey, im trying to root for the first time, and have just rebooted in dev mode, do I have to pick media sync, usb drive, or just charge... can I ignore this? Jun 14 18:28:17 if anyone has some free time, please duplicate the nintendo bit... i'd like to get some help with the keyboard :( Jun 14 18:28:30 until then, i'll try xmame Jun 14 18:28:42 ncoffman: just charge works ok with it Jun 14 18:28:47 or ignore it Jun 14 18:30:03 ncoffman: you can ignore that Jun 14 18:30:27 ncoffman: in fact, novacom starts running before the palm logo disappears Jun 14 18:32:14 ok, now my next problem, Im not much of a programmer, so "Run talk.py inside of subversion" is kind of confusing, if I open talk.py inside of python and Run Module I get a syntax error, how am suppossed to perform this step? Jun 14 18:32:58 what version ofpython do you have ? Jun 14 18:33:12 3.0.1 Jun 14 18:33:22 so brand new .. Jun 14 18:33:30 i think it was tested to work with 2.5 and 2.6 ... not sure about 3.0 Jun 14 18:33:44 alright, ill roll back a few versions and see what happens Jun 14 18:33:46 3.0 breaks backwards compatibility with 2.x Jun 14 18:34:16 indeed it does, and i am no python expert to figure out the syntax changes Jun 14 18:35:25 This might be of help, then: http://docs.python.org/library/2to3.html Jun 14 18:36:30 hey look at that Jun 14 18:37:06 my bad, I missed the wiki actually states the version of python... Jun 14 18:37:23 it's all good Jun 14 18:37:30 how do you like your pre ? Jun 14 18:37:32 oh Jun 14 18:37:36 i feel so used :( Jun 14 18:37:50 question about sshin' in - default port number? Jun 14 18:38:00 222 ? Jun 14 18:38:09 22 ? Jun 14 18:38:13 that's one more than I've been trying Jun 14 18:38:17 ya, been trying 22 Jun 14 18:38:23 try 222, or 2222 Jun 14 18:38:37 what instructions did you follow ? Jun 14 18:38:45 mikedg, your wiki page says "Comment out lines 247 and 247." Jun 14 18:38:53 246, sorry Jun 14 18:38:54 the wiki instructions Jun 14 18:38:54 ill fix Jun 14 18:39:02 for pre-root Jun 14 18:39:13 rrryanc: let me go there and check it out Jun 14 18:39:18 im using the predev.wikidot.com/rooting instructions Jun 14 18:39:18 ok Jun 14 18:39:20 fixed Jun 14 18:39:23 ya those Jun 14 18:39:32 I got down to #9 ok Jun 14 18:39:43 but can't connect for whatever reason Jun 14 18:39:52 so I installed the packages... Jun 14 18:40:03 and can telnet in from putty from my windows 7 machine Jun 14 18:40:05 which page rrryanc ? Jun 14 18:40:13 but ls command brings up nothing Jun 14 18:40:17 http://predev.wikidot.com/rooting Jun 14 18:40:29 darthpooh@castle:su - Jun 14 18:40:42 darth the directory you start in might be empty Jun 14 18:40:45 oh .. Jun 14 18:40:48 try cd /usr/bin or something Jun 14 18:40:53 yeah, I did Jun 14 18:41:01 nm... Jun 14 18:41:07 just decided to cd / Jun 14 18:41:12 and it brings me back to root Jun 14 18:41:13 rrryanc: you need to telnet in first - port 23 ... not ssh Jun 14 18:41:14 thanks! Jun 14 18:41:16 you haven't set that up yet Jun 14 18:41:24 only a telnet daemon is on the pre by default Jun 14 18:41:40 I get the same thing Jun 14 18:41:44 connection timed out Jun 14 18:42:03 after you run talk.py ? Jun 14 18:42:07 do people generally leave dev mode on? Jun 14 18:42:11 ya Jun 14 18:42:32 did you reboot the pre? that will break the change that talk.py makes i believe Jun 14 18:42:32 darth, i've noticed with dev mode on the screen stays brighter when i plug it into the touchstone Jun 14 18:42:34 so i turn it off Jun 14 18:43:07 bpadalino, yeah, thats about the only difference I've noticed myself. Jun 14 18:43:09 just ran talk.py again, same deal - connection times out Jun 14 18:43:21 talk.py connection times out ? Jun 14 18:43:29 no Jun 14 18:43:30 i think he's having trouble with telnet Jun 14 18:43:31 telnet Jun 14 18:43:36 let me double-check the ip Jun 14 18:43:51 so talk.py goes "Got/Expected" Jun 14 18:44:00 ya Jun 14 18:44:07 well that's good Jun 14 18:44:08 that appears to run successfully Jun 14 18:44:13 guys running out, if you try or are trying my latest tutorial let meknow via msg Jun 14 18:44:27 rrryanc: are you on xp? Jun 14 18:44:31 sorta Jun 14 18:44:34 virtual xp atm Jun 14 18:44:40 in linux ? Jun 14 18:44:45 no, win 7 Jun 14 18:44:47 ah Jun 14 18:44:49 close enough... have you tried novaproxy.py? Jun 14 18:44:51 so many windows Jun 14 18:44:53 I could switch to linux, if that's easier Jun 14 18:45:00 oh rrryanc, try telnetting ffom win7 directly Jun 14 18:45:03 I tried novaproxy, got some bad formatting errors Jun 14 18:45:03 no, os x is the easiest platform to play around with actually Jun 14 18:45:09 ya tried that too Jun 14 18:45:17 you only need to run talk.py from within VM, nothing after that Jun 14 18:45:19 os x works beautifully Jun 14 18:45:21 OSX got me rooted initially too Jun 14 18:45:26 did you install python 3+, or 2.6? Jun 14 18:45:28 *sigh* wikidot hates me.... Jun 14 18:45:38 2.6 Jun 14 18:45:39 and i used that to install the packages to be able to ssh using my win7 lappy Jun 14 18:45:42 2.6.2 Jun 14 18:45:50 weird... Jun 14 18:45:52 I don't have OS X Jun 14 18:46:04 * bdumm signed up twice and has yet to get a verifcation email..... Jun 14 18:46:09 so when I do it from win 7, the telnet window just disappears Jun 14 18:46:11 you should root with an XP machine than Jun 14 18:46:18 i did it on xp just fine using novaproxy. Jun 14 18:46:43 rrryanc, you did root already correct? Jun 14 18:46:49 i'm still working on rewriting a novacomd for linux .. Jun 14 18:47:07 whaddya mean? Jun 14 18:47:11 I'm trying to root Jun 14 18:47:17 you cant on win7 Jun 14 18:47:21 I did the talk python script Jun 14 18:47:25 virtual XP Jun 14 18:47:29 DarthPooh: not even on a vm? Jun 14 18:47:41 ah, didnt try VM Jun 14 18:47:45 it seemed to work Jun 14 18:47:46 someone in here said they did tho Jun 14 18:47:47 no errors Jun 14 18:47:52 just can't telnet in Jun 14 18:48:12 classic sux Jun 14 18:48:14 is there a way to reload the display without rebooting the phone? Jun 14 18:48:33 got any wifi security protocols or unsecured signal? Jun 14 18:48:41 do you have a native xp box you can test to see if it's something about running the xp vm in win7? Jun 14 18:48:59 ya, let me boot it up and try there Jun 14 18:49:24 it's a WEP-secured wifi network Jun 14 18:49:53 when i did it in vm, i ran talk.py in the XP VM but telnetted in directly from win7 Jun 14 18:49:56 without a problem Jun 14 18:50:07 I turned mine off it worked, I'm surprised windows driver anything works after reading Palm's problems with windows drivers Jun 14 18:50:16 it's telling me "connection closed by host" now Jun 14 18:50:26 same for me Jun 14 18:50:33 i disabled firewall though Jun 14 18:50:37 rrryanc: also, remember that the wifi connection does down when the phone turns off Jun 14 18:50:37 in 7 Jun 14 18:50:37 so did i Jun 14 18:50:44 eg, when the screen goes dead Jun 14 18:50:50 unless you are actively listening to music Jun 14 18:50:53 yeah you want your usb cable in the whole time Jun 14 18:50:55 or performing some type of operation Jun 14 18:50:59 usb cable is in Jun 14 18:51:03 okie dokie Jun 14 18:51:04 seems to be staying on Jun 14 18:51:17 Have I missed anything neat in the last day or two? Jun 14 18:51:21 yea i always do a wifi reset and check my local wifi box's dhcp table just to "make sure" wifi is active and then i plug in my usb Jun 14 18:51:30 only other trouble i had was i entered the ip wrong because i wasn't paying attention Jun 14 18:51:38 chrisa, i've gotten to the point where i am reimplementing usbl and pmux functionality using libusb Jun 14 18:51:51 so these linux guys can get in on this novacom action Jun 14 18:51:57 I feel bad, considering we have those for linux already Jun 14 18:52:03 ........ Jun 14 18:52:06 As geist said, no clue why we didn't release it yet Jun 14 18:52:11 ........ Jun 14 18:52:14 :) Jun 14 18:52:17 it's nice to see the protocol at least Jun 14 18:52:21 chrisa, not sure. were you part of the "meeting" yesterday about going to /var/opt bind mount from /media/internal/optware.ext3 loop mounting? Jun 14 18:52:31 Probably due to support concerns, is my guess Jun 14 18:53:10 Even if you say "This comes with no support, may sell your firstborn to slavers, has a chance of burning your house down and will say terrible things about your mother" people tend to complain if they have problems Jun 14 18:53:12 chrisa, i think geist even had a request to open source a new version to see if what was made was better and more maintainable :P Jun 14 18:53:45 Though novacomd isn't *that* saucey. It won't insult your mother Jun 14 18:54:10 chrisa, it's also an excuse to learn libusb and get back into c programming Jun 14 18:54:12 would be handy for us linux types. pita to fire up a vm just for that. Jun 14 18:54:32 ya, linux would be waaay better, hate programming in windows Jun 14 18:54:34 i've been doing so much vhdl for the past 4 years, it's nice to get back to a different language Jun 14 18:54:35 did anyone ever get a look at webos 1.0.1? Jun 14 18:54:44 yea i use winhose for playing some games and now rooting my pre lol Jun 14 18:54:45 bpadalino: do you have it on github or something? Jun 14 18:54:51 chrisa, not yet Jun 14 18:55:03 Though I probably shouldn't look at it Jun 14 18:55:05 let me pastie what i have so far Jun 14 18:55:13 lol Jun 14 18:55:28 bpadalino, it MIT? Jun 14 18:56:17 sorry, clean access agent had a field day with my internet, how do i get pre's IP? Jun 14 18:56:19 if it's gpl he probably doesn't want to see it. Jun 14 18:56:42 njcoffman, ifconfig ppp0 for evdo Jun 14 18:56:48 ifconfig eth0 for wifi Jun 14 18:56:48 hmm, do debian/ubuntu still have an arm toolchain in the normal repos? Jun 14 18:56:52 http://pastie.textmate.org/private/tturvbkqvvvwiycc8fq - my own Jun 14 18:56:52 it mit ? Jun 14 18:56:52 chrisa, i'd be curious to hear your comments - but no obligation obviously ... it's still amazingly sloppy Jun 14 18:56:59 mit license. Jun 14 18:57:18 chrisa, i believe ubuntu is pushing arm pretty hard Jun 14 18:57:44 Back when I worked on network sensors I recall we used binutils-avr Jun 14 18:58:01 njcoffman: the wifi driver will tell you for wifi .. or ther is ##evdo# if you dial that to get info .. or ##debug# Jun 14 18:58:07 But that's not quite the same Jun 14 18:58:09 chrisa, how did you like those avr's ? Jun 14 18:58:16 i prefer the MSP430 for small micros Jun 14 18:58:41 you gotta admit, it was nice of palm to let us know WHERE we should install the opt packages Jun 14 18:58:43 I don't have much to say about the cpu. It was back when I was a research assistant for some darpa stuff Jun 14 18:58:46 I didn't know CPU then Jun 14 18:58:58 but there are so many nice, small arm7's now .. LPC is a big one Jun 14 18:59:00 ah, gotcha Jun 14 18:59:11 what do you think about the OMAP3 ? Jun 14 18:59:37 It's interesting enough that I might snag a beagleboard or gumstix to toy with Jun 14 18:59:43 Though the size limits are frustrating Jun 14 18:59:51 which size limits ? Jun 14 19:00:16 bootloader needs to stay under 64k iirc Jun 14 19:00:35 oh - yeah ... those highly integrated SoC's tend to have some crazy limits Jun 14 19:01:03 the clock distribution network gets insane too - changing the CPU frequency doesn't necessarily change the memory bus frequency in a way you may want or expect Jun 14 19:01:26 the new gumstix looks pretty cool. Jun 14 19:01:28 working with the OMAP2420 i think we tried to raise the CPU frequency, but it would lower our memory bus speed by 1/3 or so Jun 14 19:01:52 chrisa, did you guys do any of the C64x+ programming there - or get that all from TI ? Jun 14 19:02:17 * Sargun just woke up Jun 14 19:02:25 Not sure, I came later to the game Jun 14 19:02:26 i wish i knew how that dynamic link loader worked on the DSP side of things ... Jun 14 19:02:32 ah Jun 14 19:02:39 anyone tried my tracker: http://predev.wikidot.com/tracking Jun 14 19:03:03 i was looking at that Jun 14 19:03:10 whats tracker mean? Jun 14 19:03:12 but i haven't tried it Jun 14 19:03:15 awesome idea Jun 14 19:03:33 Sargun, yes...works great Jun 14 19:03:37 kickass. Jun 14 19:04:00 as you know, i've been looking for access to the gps. Jun 14 19:04:06 chrisa, whats your opinion of dbus ? Jun 14 19:04:35 bpadalino: it's a bit difficult if you don't use glib, but it's a cool setup especially now that things like HAL use it Jun 14 19:04:37 bpadalino, I used to hate Dbus. I worked with it quite a bit when I was mucking with the OpenMoko project, my opinion slightly improved. Jun 14 19:04:39 http://predev.wikidot.com/tracking Jun 14 19:04:46 vlaurenz, ? Jun 14 19:04:46 ^^ what does that do for me? Jun 14 19:04:51 app level bus notification of hardware changes is great if you ask me Jun 14 19:05:08 sorry, just don't follow Jun 14 19:05:12 vlaurenz, If you lose your pre, you can send it a message, and it'll tell you where it is. Jun 14 19:05:17 ahhhh Jun 14 19:05:21 location of the PRE Jun 14 19:05:22 chrisa, that does seem very slick - have you measured the latency for the whole stack from hardware up to js notification ? Jun 14 19:05:28 Is that like, "I'm afraid, ahhh!" Jun 14 19:05:36 A friend out here is huge into webhooks, when I was bored I wrote a daemon to route http hooks to dbus Jun 14 19:05:42 Sargun: no :) Jun 14 19:05:52 chrisa, sounds fun Jun 14 19:05:55 Silly project, and python's dbus support is lacking (it's implemented via decorators completely AUGH) Jun 14 19:05:55 that's more like ah ha Jun 14 19:05:59 but longer Jun 14 19:06:27 vlaurenz, ah... Jun 14 19:06:37 chrisa, oh - a suggestion i have for the browser app - when clicking a google maps link, open the maps app instead of actually viewing google maps ? Jun 14 19:06:40 thanks for the explanation Jun 14 19:06:54 Suggestions to me don't go anywhere, fair warning Jun 14 19:07:00 understandable Jun 14 19:07:07 unless it's something like "The bootloader catches fire" Jun 14 19:07:17 the bootloader doesn't catch fire :( Jun 14 19:07:23 welcome back, Sargun. Jun 14 19:07:23 drat Jun 14 19:07:30 EvanPro_, how's your app? Jun 14 19:07:43 it's gettin there.. playing with it right now. Jun 14 19:08:05 (someone registered my nick, hence the underscore) Jun 14 19:08:14 chrisa, i am sure you can come up with a routine to make the chip pretty hot and melt the touchscreen Jun 14 19:08:31 i've collected about 16 hours of stats off my pre so far, going to sql it tonight and add some new items to follow. Jun 14 19:08:49 that's a good way to fingerprint your pre Jun 14 19:08:50 dreadchicken, related to what? Jun 14 19:09:00 trust me, heating a device like that up is *easy* Jun 14 19:09:22 for data Jun 14 19:09:25 It makes me wonder what some of the vendors are doing Jun 14 19:09:30 chrisa, are you guys using the graphics processor in there at all ? Jun 14 19:09:31 tracking system stats over time Jun 14 19:09:35 chrisa, lemme guess, there is a huge hole in your desk because you made your device combust? Jun 14 19:09:45 the touchstone seems to do a pretty good job of heating it up ;) Jun 14 19:09:46 Ion/Atom stuff looks decent, but what about all these new chipsets with multicore cpus/gpus? Jun 14 19:09:46 i guess you can't say Jun 14 19:09:51 They're going to burst into flames Jun 14 19:09:56 ion/atom is SSOOOO power hungry .. Jun 14 19:09:57 4W ? Jun 14 19:10:04 wow, seriously? Jun 14 19:10:07 1371895899, 09.06.14.13.31,50,28418.34,-4375,2.99,6.92,5.69 Jun 14 19:10:07 1371895899, 09.06.14.13.49,49,28476.21,-298359,20.82,10.49,6.94 Jun 14 19:10:07 1371895899, 09.06.14.14.06,48,28600.22,-168671,18.22,11.59,7.69 Jun 14 19:10:07 yeah Jun 14 19:10:11 I should look into the spec more Jun 14 19:10:14 these OMAP3's are significantly better Jun 14 19:10:15 ^ last 3 lines of my data Jun 14 19:10:27 i <3 OMAP3 and what freescale is doing Jun 14 19:10:31 ION/atom looks great for a media center pc though Jun 14 19:10:32 Sargun: no, but I have destroyed some poor battery gas gauges Jun 14 19:10:41 xbmc on one of those little guys? Jun 14 19:10:42 unfortunately i think OMAP is going to move more towards the netbook/stb market Jun 14 19:10:43 ok guys I'm back, with no better luck Jun 14 19:10:48 still can't telnet in Jun 14 19:10:51 and less with the mobile market :( Jun 14 19:11:00 I'll be honest, I don't really understand the netbook market Jun 14 19:11:02 even after doing talk.py from an actual XP machine Jun 14 19:11:11 I have a smartphone and 13" dell xps which weighs like a pound Jun 14 19:11:12 chrisa, me neither Jun 14 19:11:36 I can't understand the small keyboards Jun 14 19:11:36 chrisa, i was joking with my friends about my next phone .. Jun 14 19:11:38 let me link you Jun 14 19:12:19 chrisa http://www.logicpd.com/products/development-kits/texas-instruments-zoom™-omap34x-ii-mdp Jun 14 19:12:41 not sure if you can get to the link with the "tm" in it ... but i wanted to be the first on my block with a phone that had an rj45 ethernet port Jun 14 19:12:42 :P Jun 14 19:13:04 You could just get one of the nicer gumstix as well Jun 14 19:13:14 those gumstix are very nice Jun 14 19:13:16 It comes with all sorts of crazy bits, and is a 3530 I think? Jun 14 19:13:23 ooh yeah - 3530 is very slick Jun 14 19:13:31 OMAP4 should be nice too Jun 14 19:13:35 i think dual a8's in those ? Jun 14 19:13:46 geist has me pondering working on a kernel for a toy lik that Jun 14 19:14:16 it sounds like you guys are having fun at palm - which is great .. Jun 14 19:14:28 all my friends said "welcome to 1995" when i told them i bought the pre ... Jun 14 19:15:02 I've felt pretty fortunate snagging this gig right out of univ Jun 14 19:15:18 oh, where did you go to school ? Jun 14 19:15:25 OSU, nothing fancy Jun 14 19:15:30 cs ? Jun 14 19:15:42 cs with some ling minors (korean, for some reason?) Jun 14 19:15:46 chrisa, ahia? Jun 14 19:15:57 s/ahia/ohio/? Jun 14 19:16:00 yes Jun 14 19:16:00 anyone familiar with novaproxy.py, and why I might be getting invalid syntax errors Jun 14 19:16:00 interesting Jun 14 19:16:19 chrisa: let me guess, your girlfriend was korean? :) Jun 14 19:16:24 nope Jun 14 19:16:32 rrryanc: can you paste your syntax errors to the web and link to them ? Jun 14 19:16:35 she moved to yemen Jun 14 19:16:38 Funny story Jun 14 19:16:55 err maybe Jun 14 19:16:55 "my girlfriend left and moved to yemen" .. that doesn't sound funny :( Jun 14 19:17:03 let me just PM you em Jun 14 19:17:10 rrryanc: better if you paste online Jun 14 19:17:15 webos.pastebin.com i think ? Jun 14 19:17:34 ok Jun 14 19:17:49 did I miss anything interesting besides the "tracking" script here? Jun 14 19:17:57 Doesn't seem like it Jun 14 19:18:43 I think I'm going to kill some time with tf2 rather than being productive Jun 14 19:18:54 http://webos.pastebin.com/d681c6c7 Jun 14 19:19:45 rrryanc: that's not a python script; that's a web page Jun 14 19:19:51 rrryanc: indeed it is Jun 14 19:20:10 o haha Jun 14 19:20:12 my bad Jun 14 19:20:23 see how much easier it was once we knew what was going on? :) Jun 14 19:20:34 that might explain why it wasn't working then Jun 14 19:20:48 it's a good indicator Jun 14 19:21:05 Brittany Spears just played on my Pandora... someone glitched... Jun 14 19:21:11 haha Jun 14 19:21:19 Stik, or pandora has insights. Jun 14 19:21:39 man I hope that's not the road I am heading down :| Jun 14 19:24:05 hey, Im all rooted in, thanks for setting up the wiki and everything else! only suggestion i would have is to note that you can get your wifi IP by tapping your network in the wifi screen Jun 14 19:24:24 haven't done java in a while what are you guys using to dig through code? Eclipse? something else? Jun 14 19:25:08 hah ncoffman thats where it is Jun 14 19:25:18 i was looking for that menu, i knew it had to be hiding someplace Jun 14 19:25:18 ncoffman brilliant!!! Jun 14 19:25:26 that actually got me in Jun 14 19:25:28 thanks Jun 14 19:25:35 antonio3: most of the code is in javascript, on a windows machine notepad++ works well for me and it's free Jun 14 19:25:45 I needed the internal ip, not the outside one Jun 14 19:26:03 ok.. i was thinking in terms of also being able to search through all the files Jun 14 19:26:10 antonio3: there are a lot of jar files in the filesystem Jun 14 19:26:25 and i've used jd-gui to look at that code .. Jun 14 19:26:26 notepad++ can do that too Jun 14 19:26:27 and their classes Jun 14 19:27:12 ok cool.. that was my biggest issue searching through the files... i've been a dba for so long now.. sigh Jun 14 19:27:13 nice, i'll have to check tha tout Jun 14 19:27:36 it would be nice if someone wrote a program to list the dbus services and methods available to use Jun 14 19:28:25 nice looks like that JD-GUI also has an Eclipse plugin Jun 14 19:28:27 bpadalino, or a dbus daemon to proxy through terminal i/o so i can write a terminal app. :) Jun 14 19:28:53 evanpro, right - getting the whole stack figured out would be nice ... we know you have to plug in to dbus to be able to send messages .. Jun 14 19:29:01 but how do you get that up to the javascript, etc Jun 14 19:29:02 EvanPro_: That would be terribly slow Jun 14 19:29:37 pocek: really? i can't think of how else to get terminal up the chain to javascript? Jun 14 19:29:51 pocek, why would it be slow ? Jun 14 19:30:33 Where can I go to get started with my own basic helloworld application and information on what we know so far? Jun 14 19:30:38 ahh nice, an example of using luna-send on the wiki. me like Jun 14 19:31:05 EvanPro_: native webkit plugin (like classic, pdf viewer) Jun 14 19:32:06 bpadalino: I just can't believe you can do efficient terminal emulator in JS *AND* pushing stuff through dbus. A total waste of CPU cycles Jun 14 19:32:57 pocek: right, that was what i suggested last night before the dbus daemon came up, but does anyone in here know how to write a webkit plugin? i figured a dbus daemon was more realistic given this group's knowledge. Jun 14 19:33:18 on one side is efficiency and on the other side is abstraction and maintainability .... i suppose the slider for webOS slides more to the right than to the left Jun 14 19:33:30 Anybody know how to get dropbear to allow root logon? Having a bitch of a time scping files into /internal/media Jun 14 19:33:45 /media/internal ? Jun 14 19:34:08 Lurking_Grue: I edited fstab to mount /media/internal owned by my non-root user Jun 14 19:34:28 Ah... that would work. *Slaps forehead. Jun 14 19:35:00 Lurking_Grue: should add "uid=1001" to mount options Jun 14 19:36:48 when usb is plugged in and you choose media sync or usb storage mode it unmounts /media/internal, correct? Jun 14 19:36:51 * EvanPro_ reads webkit objective-c programming guide Jun 14 19:37:04 electrofreak66: yes Jun 14 19:37:22 does objective-c compile into arm code? Jun 14 19:37:26 ok, so when it does this is it possible to remount /dev/mapper/store-media on /media/internal as ro? Jun 14 19:37:31 yes Jun 14 19:37:36 objc is just a language Jun 14 19:37:38 it has some good support Jun 14 19:38:02 c++ sounds better suited Jun 14 19:38:08 i know but i thought that mac webkit plugin guide was just for coacoa Jun 14 19:38:10 indeed it does Jun 14 19:38:37 evanpro: Do you think these are just vanilla webkit plugins, or are we gonna need some Palm/Luna specific headers to make plugins that work properly in the environment? Jun 14 19:39:01 the webkit plugins need a luna library Jun 14 19:39:32 have we figured out how to get an image to render inside of a card ? Jun 14 19:39:44 jblebrun: i really don't know... i think one of you guys would have a better chance at succeeding on this plugin side of things.. javascript / web dev is more my stomping ground. Jun 14 19:40:03 ...so we can't do anything until palm let us to Jun 14 19:40:17 bpadalino: ? :P Jun 14 19:40:31 bpadalino: just a static image, or like a framebuffer image? Jun 14 19:40:38 pocek: Well, we can't do anything *easily* until palm lets us ;-) Jun 14 19:40:45 eg: get doom to run in a card Jun 14 19:40:46 yo. Jun 14 19:40:55 ah Jun 14 19:40:57 ShinAli: ? how about Jun 14 19:41:00 :-p Jun 14 19:41:13 jblebrun: Sorry, it's my pesimistic nature ;) Jun 14 19:41:29 What do doom as streaming video? Jun 14 19:41:47 bpadalino: the card might need a plugin or an added system hook in mojo Jun 14 19:41:54 i noticed that pre doesnt like to read our irc txt log files. Jun 14 19:41:59 anyone know about how data: links are handled? Jun 14 19:42:07 or what they might be used for Jun 14 19:42:12 tictac: is it choking cuz of the size? Jun 14 19:42:16 yes. Jun 14 19:42:45 which sucks because its the only way ill be able to check up on the status of things for the next week. Jun 14 19:43:10 unless people constantly update the wiki, which wont happen. Jun 14 19:43:36 tictac: maybe someone could be nice and chunk them up :-) Jun 14 19:44:04 make a splitter Jun 14 19:44:22 so do it then :P Jun 14 19:44:24 Sargun: did you get quake running yet Jun 14 19:44:31 OK Jun 14 19:44:53 ill be working on various things all week but i want to be kept in the loop of things. i just wont be able to post anything in great detail until i return on friday. Jun 14 19:44:57 haven't tried yet Jun 14 19:45:13 tictac, what are you working on Jun 14 19:45:30 evanpro: How's your location app going? Jun 14 19:45:50 Sargun: wifi, terminal app, a couple other network things. Jun 14 19:46:18 id like to get an app that tells you the current network info without doing an ifconfig. one that looks nice with the webos gui. Jun 14 19:47:11 tictac: you can get that already by going to "wifi preferences", can't you? Jun 14 19:47:12 jblebrun: maybe another hour or two till i have a working beta.. err, alpha. i'm kinda taking my sweet time, playing with other things along the way... plus the debugging process is a bitch without the sdk.. basically, if you have an error, you get a blank screen or unresponsive app, with no indication of what or where the error is. Jun 14 19:47:52 steviebuns1: no. i mean your public address from ppp0 Jun 14 19:47:55 evanpro: Ouch. Jun 14 19:48:00 tictac: have you figured out how to get terminal i/o to the gui / mojo? or are you just speculating right now? Jun 14 19:48:07 is there somewhere with a short walkthrough someone's scribbled out on how to start working on apps for WebOS? Jun 14 19:48:14 EvanPro_: thats what i will get done this week. Jun 14 19:48:25 tictac: What's your approach for making a terminal app? Jun 14 19:48:35 evanpro: What are you doing exactly? I' was going to write an app that simply copies a tr.im/url into my clipboard with a link to a google map to my current location. Jun 14 19:48:38 ALL: i will be out of the net from tonight around 5pm PST until friday 8PM PST. Jun 14 19:48:53 sastafer: i will write something up once i'm done with my gps app if someone else hasn't.. that's what i got wiki access to do. Jun 14 19:48:54 i can still correspond to some emails. pm if you wnat the address. Jun 14 19:49:02 this is a bit of a beginner question, how do I copy a script on my computer over to my pre? Jun 14 19:49:15 pocek: i have a few different ways. i need to dig deeper into a few things. Jun 14 19:49:18 ncoffman: scp, if you have ssh set up Jun 14 19:49:26 EvanPro_: alright, thanks. Sort of new to this but it really interests me. Just struggling to get set up. Jun 14 19:50:17 sastafer: for now you can take a look at the o Jun 14 19:50:22 o'rielly web cast Jun 14 19:50:26 jblebrun: my app is just posting gps coords to a url at an interval... allowing the developer to do whatever he/she wants with them at that point. (for example, i had a serverside app that calculates my hours at work based on proximity to the office and stuff like that) Jun 14 19:50:48 anyway to do it over telnet? Jun 14 19:51:04 ahh brilliant evanpro, wanted to do something that'll link location to Tasks Jun 14 19:51:09 evanpro: so we can stalkz joo Jun 14 19:51:19 and pop up a reminder if you're close to where you need to do stuff Jun 14 19:51:38 ncoffman: anything you copy to the device in USB mode will appear in /media/internal Jun 14 19:51:48 * Sargun wants to write an app that'll forward the calls to your house if you are at home Jun 14 19:51:54 evanpro: Regarding the js bugs, have you tried just writing stubs for all the mojo-specific stuff, and running your code in a standard browser? Jun 14 19:52:03 but call forwarding = expensive on sprint Jun 14 19:52:08 sargun: sprint rapes you with call forwarding fees Jun 14 19:52:28 .20c/call Jun 14 19:52:33 i thought a min Jun 14 19:52:54 jblebrun: eh, i haven't bothered yet.. suppose i should. Jun 14 19:56:22 EvanPro_: "< nicoya> I think someone was working on a terminal program but I don't know how far they got" <- that was in January Jun 14 19:57:12 :-| Jun 14 19:57:55 what Jun 14 19:58:23 back in January! Jun 14 19:58:31 mikedg, something insane. Jun 14 19:58:35 the phone wasn't even out yet Jun 14 19:58:49 ShinAli: nicoya is from Palm Jun 14 19:58:53 it was on #webos Jun 14 19:59:06 oh whateverrrrrrrrrrrr Jun 14 19:59:10 Right, that's what I was gonna say... 'someone' as in... someone with connections at Palm :-) Jun 14 19:59:21 Has anyone started a batterygraph app? Jun 14 19:59:25 i don't doubt it Jun 14 19:59:35 i bet it was on early dev devices Jun 14 20:00:23 battery graph Jun 14 20:00:24 ? Jun 14 20:00:31 Yeah to plot battery level over time Jun 14 20:00:39 interesting Jun 14 20:00:50 that'd ought to be a fun small project Jun 14 20:00:58 Yeah, I guess I'll do that then Jun 14 20:01:24 as a webOS app? Jun 14 20:01:49 Maybe... if I can find what I need Jun 14 20:02:06 well, mojo has battery methods... Jun 14 20:02:16 but i would imagine to build a history, the app would need to be running. Jun 14 20:02:17 this is where knowing the methods available would be helfu l.. Jun 14 20:02:21 evanpro: yeah Jun 14 20:02:24 and canvas support! Jun 14 20:02:25 both in mojo .. and dbus Jun 14 20:02:43 /whois nicoya Jun 14 20:02:44 also, someone should try: http://www.prototypejs.org/ Jun 14 20:02:58 bpadalino: what about prototype? Jun 14 20:03:00 I'm so annoyed that they based mojo on prototype Jun 14 20:03:08 evanpro, try it out in webos and see how the performanceis Jun 14 20:03:18 what's the stuff worth backing up on the phone? Jun 14 20:03:30 mr. resig is quite a js master Jun 14 20:03:33 bpadalino: it works great, but the first thing i did was bundle jquery with my app lol. Jun 14 20:03:39 hehe Jun 14 20:03:41 jquery ftw Jun 14 20:03:50 i'm a resig fanboy. Jun 14 20:03:52 bpadalino: Everyone on comp.lang.javascript would beg to differ ;-) Jun 14 20:04:02 jblebrun, they don't like resig ? Jun 14 20:04:06 he went to my school! Jun 14 20:04:08 nope Jun 14 20:04:10 i have to like him! Jun 14 20:04:16 I use jquery Jun 14 20:04:16 why aren't they fans of him ? Jun 14 20:04:35 who is resig Jun 14 20:04:43 google ftw Jun 14 20:04:57 http://ejohn.org/ Jun 14 20:04:58 Apparently he doesn't take criticism well Jun 14 20:05:17 i can just see their arguments now.... "he made javascript too easy... waaaah!" Jun 14 20:05:29 Well, they make a LOT of good points about problems in his code Jun 14 20:05:47 Unfortunately, they all sound like monster douchebags when they do it. Jun 14 20:06:08 trolls egging on trolls .. interesting Jun 14 20:06:42 It's a shame, because they're REALLY smart Jun 14 20:07:07 * EvanPro_ loves jquery and mr resig, regardless. Jun 14 20:07:14 They certainly have a better grasp of JS than Resig... but he's much better at PR :-) Jun 14 20:07:27 I am using jquery in my latest project Jun 14 20:07:38 well then they can make their own framework if they're so inclined. Jun 14 20:07:57 oh brother Jun 14 20:08:04 lol Jun 14 20:08:04 someboby has the touchstone? Jun 14 20:08:07 evanpro: Many of them have written libraries. Jun 14 20:08:18 evanpro: Check out "Fork Javascript" and "Mylib" by David Mark Jun 14 20:08:22 crash_pr: i do Jun 14 20:08:36 jblebrun: too bad they suck at PR compared to Resig. :-p Jun 14 20:08:49 john resig is really young ... so he has probably made a lot of mistakes in his code .. Jun 14 20:08:56 I don't think it's their goal to be famous libraries writers Jun 14 20:08:58 do you have the problem that when it charges to 100% it disciconects an conects back Jun 14 20:09:06 crash_pr: no Jun 14 20:09:10 doing the notification sound everytime Jun 14 20:09:17 hmm sucks Jun 14 20:09:27 i am sorry Jun 14 20:09:28 :( Jun 14 20:09:59 theres a thread at pal with lots of people with th same issue Jun 14 20:10:27 i hope they figure it out .. i love my touchstone .. Jun 14 20:10:34 me too Jun 14 20:10:34 i was thinking of getting one for the office too Jun 14 20:11:00 Dp: I am getting one for the office... Now that I have scp I will never have to open the usb door again. :) Jun 14 20:11:02 i have it by the hometheater receiver Jun 14 20:11:12 is there an scp for optware? Jun 14 20:11:15 with a 3.5 to rca adapter Jun 14 20:11:24 hehe Jun 14 20:11:27 to sream pandora Jun 14 20:11:30 lol Jun 14 20:11:44 rr: It just worked with dropbear... I was able to just scp into it. Jun 14 20:12:05 o maybe going the wrong direction Jun 14 20:12:15 it replaced my ipod video Jun 14 20:12:18 cool Jun 14 20:12:33 the camera flash is amazingly bright ... blinded me for a bit the other day Jun 14 20:12:42 i was surprised to see how bright it was Jun 14 20:12:43 Huh Jun 14 20:12:52 the slickspeed tests don't render in this browser Jun 14 20:13:05 ha ha yes i almost blinded my baby with it :( Jun 14 20:13:15 whoops Jun 14 20:14:06 There are a lot of canvas tag bugs, too Jun 14 20:14:10 which really surprised me Jun 14 20:14:31 what type of bugs ? Jun 14 20:14:39 Gradiants don't render Jun 14 20:14:42 ah Jun 14 20:14:43 weaksauce Jun 14 20:14:45 arcs are not drawn properly Jun 14 20:15:22 Wasn't the canvas tag *born* in webkit? Jun 14 20:15:32 it was born in html5 i thought Jun 14 20:15:41 jblebrun: webkit Jun 14 20:15:49 html5 like it and used it Jun 14 20:15:56 *liked Jun 14 20:15:58 ah Jun 14 20:15:59 interesting Jun 14 20:16:04 that's what I thought Jun 14 20:16:22 hello Jun 14 20:16:40 g_money: hi Jun 14 20:17:05 im trying to ssh into my device but after entering my user/pass its telling me access denied Jun 14 20:17:08 serious newbie here, but a bit savy in the ways of Linux. Trying to follow the instructions for installing the optware package Jun 14 20:17:33 wget doesn't seem to be able to resolve the location for the optware package Jun 14 20:17:43 what ?! Jun 14 20:17:44 tried replacing the fqdn with an IP and it woudln't work Jun 14 20:18:10 Check out how the Pre renders arcs: http://media.liquidx.net/static/canvasgraph/tests.html Jun 14 20:18:45 oh, go to that on the pre Jun 14 20:18:49 let me check it out Jun 14 20:18:59 There are some scaling bugs, too... probably it's not handling context stacks right Jun 14 20:19:15 Oh nevermind, those are just div overflows Jun 14 20:20:09 But the arcs are funny :-) Jun 14 20:20:25 yikes Jun 14 20:21:25 haha, those arcs are grear Jun 14 20:21:26 t Jun 14 20:21:35 awesome Jun 14 20:21:39 bulbous .. Jun 14 20:21:39 yeah Jun 14 20:21:41 bulging out Jun 14 20:21:57 i can see marketing people using those types of graphs Jun 14 20:22:00 They should fix the bug, but keep a context.PalmPreArc function ;-) Jun 14 20:22:09 hehe Jun 14 20:22:39 hmm. a bunch of the colors are different (from chrome) also Jun 14 20:22:50 I guess I'll assume chrome's right and "web" is wrong Jun 14 20:23:01 (that browser sure could use a name) Jun 14 20:23:08 when trying to ssh into my pre im getting "access denied", any guesses as to why? Jun 14 20:23:09 joe ? Jun 14 20:23:15 The colors are matching FF3.5 Jun 14 20:23:26 mrjcarter: not enough information provided .. can you be more specific ? Jun 14 20:23:50 mrjcarter: Probably because the pre is denying you access. ;-) Jun 14 20:24:00 sorry, I just completed the enable root access and enable optware package feed Jun 14 20:24:06 chrome and FF2 do the same thing for colors for me Jun 14 20:24:13 the last step I took was remount then reset Jun 14 20:24:14 Hmmm Jun 14 20:24:28 the big difference is that the Dual Value Set has red on the pre and purple on my screen Jun 14 20:24:42 i see that too aubilenon - in safari4 Jun 14 20:24:59 bpadalino: safari4 looks like your pre, or like my firefox? Jun 14 20:25:00 lemme try safari Jun 14 20:25:10 mrjcarter: whats your ssh connection string look like ? Jun 14 20:25:20 aubilenon: pre is red, safari4 is purple Jun 14 20:25:24 im using putty Jun 14 20:25:29 port >? Jun 14 20:25:32 222 Jun 14 20:25:34 also the darker red on some of the bar graphs looks the same Jun 14 20:25:37 as the lighter red Jun 14 20:25:38 over wifi Jun 14 20:25:49 do you get a login username and ask for password as well ? Jun 14 20:25:57 yes Jun 14 20:26:04 and when you type those two in .. Jun 14 20:26:07 you get access denied ? Jun 14 20:26:09 yes Jun 14 20:26:20 what username ? Jun 14 20:26:21 who are you trying to login as. Jun 14 20:26:28 the user i created Jun 14 20:26:36 did you fat finger the password ? Jun 14 20:26:56 nah... tried it a couple times now Jun 14 20:27:03 weird Jun 14 20:27:17 did you fat finger when you created the account? Jun 14 20:27:20 CAPS LOCK? Jun 14 20:27:39 nope Jun 14 20:28:01 yeah, i have a user on my pre with an unknown password now, anyway to correct this? Jun 14 20:28:09 login as root Jun 14 20:28:12 passwd user Jun 14 20:28:18 When you are done helping mrjcarter, can someone help me with the wget problem? Jun 14 20:28:23 please? Jun 14 20:28:37 g_money: can you paste your command you're using online ? Jun 14 20:28:45 root@castle:/# wget http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk Jun 14 20:28:45 wget: bad address 'ipkg.nslu2-linux.org' Jun 14 20:28:49 bpadalino: thanks, i've forgetting all my linux commands Jun 14 20:29:02 buescher Jun 14 20:29:04 crap Jun 14 20:29:07 g_money: whats your ifconfig look like ? Jun 14 20:29:23 anyone figured out root'ing from linux yet? Jun 14 20:29:32 bsl0 and lo Jun 14 20:29:39 hemna, i am working on something Jun 14 20:29:40 am I missing the wifi? Jun 14 20:29:42 g_money, turn on wifi Jun 14 20:29:51 i thought I had it on...darn. Jun 14 20:29:55 THanks for the tip. Jun 14 20:30:07 i have bsl0, eth0, lo, ppp0, usb0, usb0:1 Jun 14 20:30:08 can I back out of the instructions and pick up where I left off at wget? Jun 14 20:30:09 I think I have a working dyndns client Jun 14 20:30:14 Awww, everyone's so nice and helpful here Jun 14 20:30:18 I have warm fuzzies Jun 14 20:30:21 bpadalino: is going back in a creating another user my best option here? Jun 14 20:30:33 though no gui interface Jun 14 20:30:35 mrjcarter: go in and just change the password for the current user Jun 14 20:31:05 hemna: do you have linux ? Jun 14 20:31:10 I'd have to telnet, login in as root correct? Jun 14 20:31:15 yes Jun 14 20:31:16 mrjcarter: yes Jun 14 20:31:34 hemna, do you want to just be able to turn on telnetd from linux ? Jun 14 20:31:38 or do the whole terminal ? Jun 14 20:31:58 telnetd is fine, unless there is sshd ? Jun 14 20:32:05 no sshd on the device by default Jun 14 20:32:10 ah k Jun 14 20:32:27 i can write canned commands to open the device and get telnetd working i think for linux ... Jun 14 20:32:33 do you know how to write and/or compile c programs ? Jun 14 20:32:37 yes Jun 14 20:32:45 im trying to set up the ssh, but not having any luck, teraterm keeps giving me a 'connection refused' Jun 14 20:33:08 use putty, teraterm ssh1 only, if you have it installed Jun 14 20:33:38 at least the last time I looked at teraterm support. Jun 14 20:33:57 still no luck, im going to try connecting via evdo to see if that makes a difference Jun 14 20:34:16 using port 222? Jun 14 20:36:23 Ok...i ensured wifi was on before connecting the pre to my mac, but I still see no other interfaces in ifconfig Jun 14 20:36:41 g_money, is the usb connected ? Jun 14 20:36:47 yes Jun 14 20:37:52 I managed to get ajaxterm working for a shell on the device, however, the webkit browser is sucking up the keystrokes interfering with its operation. Anyone else have a way to get shell on the Pre? Jun 14 20:38:33 g_money: strange .. Jun 14 20:38:42 g_money: not sure what to tell you ... if eth0 isn't coming up Jun 14 20:39:37 interesting.. Jun 14 20:39:49 tried media sync mode instead of USB mode on my Mac and it seems to have more interfaces now Jun 14 20:40:02 indeed...I have eth0 now Jun 14 20:40:08 eth0 !! Jun 14 20:40:19 maybe an addition for the wiki :) Jun 14 20:40:29 g_money: you can just use "charge only" mode, too Jun 14 20:40:48 cool... Jun 14 20:40:53 Stupid question for you guys. What's this do to my Sprint (ugh) warranty? I mean, rooting it. Jun 14 20:42:16 don't tell them about it and wipe with webOS doctor before you give it to them for anything? Jun 14 20:42:27 ^ what he said Jun 14 20:42:30 Good point Jun 14 20:42:56 I'm babying the ever living shit out of mine atm. I'm still waiting for my invisibleshield to show up Jun 14 20:43:12 How do I delete users on the Pre? Jun 14 20:43:15 thadood: If I were sprint / palm, I'd give the techs an checksum tool to compare areas of the phone before completing a warranty repair. Jun 14 20:43:44 thadood: i've been carrying mine around naked in my pocket and 0 scratches Jun 14 20:43:57 it'd be pretty hard to brick the pre unless you mess with the bootloader Jun 14 20:43:57 no keys or anything in the pocket,btw Jun 14 20:43:58 I've gotten a very light scratch (only visible on white screen) Jun 14 20:44:10 and a knick that's the same way Jun 14 20:44:18 ah Jun 14 20:44:23 I'm planning on going to a hobby store and getting some scratch remover Jun 14 20:44:29 Then throwing the protector on Jun 14 20:44:40 I have the leather pouch. It lives in it when I'm not using it Jun 14 20:44:54 mine has that light bleed problem Jun 14 20:45:05 Going to try and replace it? Jun 14 20:45:12 does anyone know how to reload the launcher w/o rebooting? (i.e. to update custom icons?) Jun 14 20:45:13 i hope so Jun 14 20:45:22 Mine has minor bleed Jun 14 20:45:31 I have to hold it at least 45 degrees to notice it Jun 14 20:45:34 mine has a little bleed too. Jun 14 20:45:36 it annoys the shit out of me when i'm watching videos Jun 14 20:46:37 i got one of those skin things yesterday... i was carrying it naked before that.. no scratches / drops luckily. Jun 14 20:46:53 I got a scratch, no idea how. I was being careful. Jun 14 20:47:02 Same for me, asedeno Jun 14 20:47:06 i'm glad i was the first one to get the pre at the store, if not anything exploring and messing with webOS has been a lot of fun Jun 14 20:47:06 I have no idea how they got there. Jun 14 20:47:13 catches the subpixels in the most annoying ways. Jun 14 20:47:35 My gf knocked it off of a table and hit her concrete floor. It was about a foot drop, but it landed right on its back Jun 14 20:47:41 and I have the touchstone back Jun 14 20:47:50 let us know how well the scratch remover works. Jun 14 20:48:07 Will do. I plan on making a trip out to Michael's tomorrow and grabbing some Jun 14 20:48:26 My iTouch never got a scratch on its screen, and I carried it in my pocket for months without a protector Jun 14 20:48:30 trying to get mojo running in safari... "The load of framework submission 175.7 failed. Perhaps it is not installed?" Jun 14 20:48:37 They really should've went for glass Jun 14 20:49:31 I've seen too many cracked iPhones... Jun 14 20:49:35 EvanPro_: someone on precentral figured out to make mojo run in safari Jun 14 20:49:38 let me get a link Jun 14 20:49:50 ShinAli: that's what i used ;-) Jun 14 20:49:55 ah Jun 14 20:49:56 nvm Jun 14 20:50:42 i love firebug... Jun 14 20:50:43 mojo.js (line 167) Jun 14 20:51:08 Firebug is amazingly indispensable Jun 14 20:51:09 doh... just the error logger function. Jun 14 20:51:57 trying to telnet into my device using port 222 just causes putty to crash (trying to change my user password) Jun 14 20:52:50 ok well not crash, but close Jun 14 20:53:01 is 222 telnet, or ssh? Jun 14 20:53:09 its ssh Jun 14 20:53:13 thought os Jun 14 20:53:16 s/os/so/ Jun 14 20:53:42 thanks for the help folks! Jun 14 20:53:54 ooops, sorry I mean to say 22 Jun 14 20:54:03 that's certainly ssh Jun 14 20:54:07 23 is telnet Jun 14 20:54:24 Has anyone successfully written into an HTML5 store from the command line? Jun 14 20:55:05 23 is doing the same Jun 14 20:56:27 yawn Jun 14 20:56:30 * geist wakes up late Jun 14 20:57:32 sounds like a great sunday Jun 14 20:57:33 jblebrun: if it's plain text i think "vi" should do it. Jun 14 20:58:12 jblebrun: as long as the filesytem is writable... rootfs_open -w (etc, etc) Jun 14 20:59:28 konsolex: Well, I'd like to do it programatically Jun 14 20:59:42 Aren't the HTML5 stores also SQLite dbs? Jun 14 21:00:20 Basically I want to write a shell script daemon that populates a store that I can later read from a Luna app Jun 14 21:01:18 thadood, i went with ghost armor and i'm pleased /except/ for one thing, one corner of mine (we have 2) has a very slight lift. Jun 14 21:01:38 Ah Jun 14 21:01:54 EvanPro_: http://antony.lesuisse.org/software/ajaxterm/ <- hmm Jun 14 21:01:56 is SQLite in the standard? I think HTML5 just has storage, SQLite is being used in the implementation of this implementation of HTML5 Jun 14 21:02:06 oops Jun 14 21:02:20 nice redundancy there Jun 14 21:02:27 yes I'm pretty sure HTML5 just defines interfaces for that, and the implementation is vendor-specific. Jun 14 21:02:36 EvanPro_: Ah, you've already seen it.. Jun 14 21:04:19 pocek: Got it working sorta. Problem is WebOS is capturing the keystrokes throwing me into Universal search Jun 14 21:04:33 yeah, i've played with ajaxterm. Jun 14 21:05:53 how does ajaxterm compare to webshell? Jun 14 21:06:01 I compiled fbterm and am trying to see if its possible to get that up on the screen. Jun 14 21:06:52 dreadchicken: http://anyterm.org/compared.html Jun 14 21:07:26 anyone know where the manual linked data for the contacts lives? Jun 14 21:08:42 i give up trying to get this safari crap working Jun 14 21:08:43 lol Jun 14 21:10:22 Just saw this on the tube. PSX on the Pre? ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXKY-xQ9jqU Jun 14 21:10:35 looks like a video clip playing on the phone Jun 14 21:10:46 2:25 is the interesting bit Jun 14 21:11:57 Following the SFTP tutorial at http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access, when I try 'sudo' I get this: >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 31 <<< Jun 14 21:11:57 sudo: parse error in /opt/etc/sudoers near line 31 Jun 14 21:11:57 sudo: no valid sudoers sources found, quitting Jun 14 21:12:19 hey guys, just rooted my pre. got ssh installed etc... works. however, i'm getting like 35% packet loss.. anyone else experience this? Jun 14 21:13:00 lol if you're a bum, you can take credit cards... re: video. Jun 14 21:13:27 EvanPro_: Yah, I used that line last week.. I rotfl Jun 14 21:13:37 I could not get the NES emulator to work but it was a fun way to spend the afternoon. Jun 14 21:14:06 needo: I got stuck at it not generating a .config file. Jun 14 21:15:20 rryanc: maybe in /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 Jun 14 21:15:24 I'm not sure, but it's a good candidate Jun 14 21:15:27 a lot going on in there Jun 14 21:15:39 zonyl: I got it running but it would not display any thing on the screen. Jun 14 21:16:04 That problem I just had... fixed it. Got it :) Jun 14 21:16:23 needo: how'd you get it past the "Could not initialize SDL: Unable to open mouse. Jun 14 21:16:48 thanks jble Jun 14 21:16:57 zonyl: export SDL_VIDEODRIVER="directfb" Jun 14 21:17:31 Ugh! -sh: ipkg-opt: not found Jun 14 21:18:49 needo: Ah.. Farther now. have a layer error Jun 14 21:19:11 What error? Jun 14 21:19:57 needo: Could not initialize SDL: DirectFBCreate: Initialization error!. (!) DirectFB/Core/layers: Failed to initialize layer 0! Jun 14 21:20:11 Never got that one Jun 14 21:21:27 Its looking for fb.modes Jun 14 21:23:03 Why am I getting this: -sh: ipkg-opt: not found Jun 14 21:23:03 after following http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 14 21:23:30 EvanPro: Read his instructions on how he did it on his website... Seems to be missing a few details. Jun 14 21:24:03 Evan: just get the latest version of coodatay? Jun 14 21:24:56 Lurking_Grue: His video at the bottom shows the "Difficult" part of copying the roms to the phone ;) Jun 14 21:25:35 Lurking_Grue: yeah, don't you have coodotay already? i know i do... Jun 14 21:25:55 Zon: Lol! Yeah, left out a few steps... like ummm how to install the "emulator" I bet the emulator has an .m4v extention. Jun 14 21:26:38 Pretty elaborate hoax though Jun 14 21:27:13 Zony: Bet he is looking for some engadget links. Jun 14 21:27:24 hehe. I submitted it :) Jun 14 21:28:43 Hmmm Jun 14 21:28:56 there are two copies of PalmDatabase.db3 Jun 14 21:29:23 that "psx emulator" is hilariously fake Jun 14 21:30:32 Aha! problem solved Jun 14 21:31:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-62ZYoVlUWM Jun 14 21:33:08 hahaha "somebody gave me a pill to rape me" Jun 14 21:33:14 er rape people Jun 14 21:33:33 lol "one of those pills that, you know... makes you rape people" Jun 14 21:37:28 just popped in, wondering "why no discussion of tethering" ? Jun 14 21:37:53 or that would be why "no discussion...." :) Jun 14 21:38:34 There are Palm and Sprint folks that keep tabs on the discussion, the mods are trying to keep them happy Jun 14 21:39:29 ok Jun 14 21:39:36 morning Jun 14 21:39:36 but the wiki has it Jun 14 21:39:41 so wiki is different than this? Jun 14 21:39:48 wiki is run by a different guy Jun 14 21:39:52 ah Jun 14 21:41:18 When a version of the Pre is sold by a carrier which has a plan available that allows tethering under the TOS, or an unlocked GSM version is available, then the policy will be able to be different. Jun 14 21:41:41 hi Jun 14 21:41:42 rwhitby: I believe there are people with everything plans who also have pam.... Jun 14 21:41:43 does anybody know how to run the webos rom with qemu? Jun 14 21:42:13 shaya: our understanding is that Sprint does not offer a plan for the Pre that allows tethering. Jun 14 21:42:19 ok Jun 14 21:43:56 hmm, you seem to be right with a bit of googling Jun 14 21:44:00 guess I was wrong. Jun 14 21:44:01 Does anything cause the gesture area LEDs to blink besides gesturing there? Jun 14 21:46:15 whoever fixed the SFTP Access page. THANK YOU!!!! Jun 14 21:46:27 shaya: I believe I saw an official palm notice on it in their forums. Something about sprint claiming it would cost as much to add tethering to your plan as it would to buy a usb dongle/plan. so they dont want to support it. Jun 14 21:47:10 I wish people would stop calling ssh access "backdoor" on the wiki. Jun 14 21:47:18 So the tracking page on the wiki, is that like a stalker app for your kids? http://predev.wikidot.com/tracking Jun 14 21:47:21 yeah, enabled by our 'leak' Jun 14 21:47:22 zonyl, interesting...i don't know anything about non X terminals. Jun 14 21:47:38 rwhitby, let's go change them all. Jun 14 21:47:41 zonyl: probably, but there's always an advantage to minimizing the # of devices one has to carry Jun 14 21:47:52 albiet a dongle isn't a big device Jun 14 21:48:02 but no biggy Jun 14 21:48:13 I was just curious Jun 14 21:48:15 s/backdoor access/ssh access/g Jun 14 21:48:28 what I want to know, has anyone investigated the npapi browser plugins? Jun 14 21:48:55 s/leak/intentional recovery tool release/ Jun 14 21:48:55 if one can figure out what they do for graphic drawing, a native app framework can be created Jun 14 21:49:15 as compiling an npapi plugin is easy Jun 14 21:49:58 it be somewhat hysterical if people could create a native framework b4 palm even releases mojo :) Jun 14 21:50:05 dreadchicken: I have a little knowledge in different areas needed, but not enough to make it work with fbterm. Needless to say Im still working on it as I desperately want to SSH from the phone. Jun 14 21:50:33 geist, i really have to say thanks for being so cool about this whole thing - how do you guys like seeing us go through your work ? Jun 14 21:50:46 is there a cron deamon running by default, or does it need to be installed? Jun 14 21:51:18 jackieripper: initctl list shows crond installed but stopped Jun 14 21:51:25 on mine, at least Jun 14 21:51:32 bpadalino: it's a lot of fun Jun 14 21:51:40 hard to get other work done, actually Jun 14 21:51:43 it is there, just initctl it on and/or set it to run on boot. Jun 14 21:51:59 dreadchicken: any news from the last 12 hours? Jun 14 21:52:09 geist: did people expect this to occur? Jun 14 21:52:50 geist, you're telling me - i've been unproductive at work being too excited to peel the layers back on the device and the operating environment .. Jun 14 21:53:48 I managed to stay away last week, I'm a little worried about my productivity next week ;-) Jun 14 21:54:22 has anyone got ssh key root access to work yet? anyone trying that needs help debugging? Jun 14 21:54:35 i literally worked 2 days last week :-/ Jun 14 21:54:46 i mean, i was "at work" every day.... Jun 14 21:55:08 I'd really like to get our sftp access page as simple as "ipkg-opt install openssh-sftp-server and use your ssh keys for root" Jun 14 21:55:13 seems like a new wave of exploration..almost 2nd wave. think a new emulator is running, gps has been found via luna-send. Jun 14 21:56:44 I also wonder why we don't just put NOPASSWD: in the sudoers file for everything. You needed the password to get in, so typing it again for root is just an inconvenience ... Jun 14 21:57:25 for what its worth Jun 14 21:57:37 i wouldn't mind a little vi instruction peppered in there when necessary Jun 14 21:57:49 being a total linux novice, vi is son of a bitch to use Jun 14 21:57:54 wat Jun 14 21:58:01 I guess it does take some getting used to Jun 14 21:58:03 But... wat Jun 14 21:58:21 using :/ to search and stuff Jun 14 21:58:23 would help a lot Jun 14 21:58:27 er Jun 14 21:58:32 you should just be using / Jun 14 21:58:33 not :/ Jun 14 21:58:42 exactly my point :> Jun 14 21:58:48 oh Jun 14 21:58:49 haha Jun 14 21:58:53 Fair enough Jun 14 21:58:59 It just requires you be in a different state of mind. Jun 14 21:59:06 overall though Jun 14 21:59:10 im a complete 0 in all htis Jun 14 21:59:16 and ive been able to follow most guides Jun 14 21:59:17 With vi, the one thing you have to keep in mind that its philosophy, as an editor, is to make lots and lots of little changes here and there. Jun 14 21:59:18 get emacs22 :p Jun 14 21:59:20 And quickly. Jun 14 21:59:34 and son of a bitch Jun 14 21:59:36 oh not emacs!!!!! :) Jun 14 21:59:38 every other time i try to sftp in Jun 14 21:59:40 * FxChiP is attempting to learn emacs as well as vi Jun 14 21:59:44 in says i dont have a server running Jun 14 21:59:51 emacs is much more intuitive Jun 14 21:59:55 imho Jun 14 22:00:01 i don't like the emacs operating system Jun 14 22:00:22 http://xkcd.com/378/ Jun 14 22:00:26 it's all I use at work Jun 14 22:00:35 some folks at the office use vi Jun 14 22:00:36 i've switch back and forth between vi and emacs over the years, but i found that i only have enough brain cells to hold one of them in my head at once Jun 14 22:00:48 i like textmate .. but in windows the best i can do is use something called 'e' which uses the same bundles Jun 14 22:00:48 I find it annoying that you have to hit 'i' to insert text Jun 14 22:01:11 it becomes second nature Jun 14 22:01:21 what i love most about vi is it really helps with my wrist hurting Jun 14 22:01:23 rrryanc: lol Jun 14 22:01:30 since i can leave my hands in exactly one spot all the time Jun 14 22:01:30 yeah, modal is second nature when you are used to it. Jun 14 22:01:38 but I like to code in emacs Jun 14 22:01:40 i actually never got into emacs .. vim is what comes naturally to me, though i admit i am definitely NOT a super power user Jun 14 22:02:12 so ive got winSCP asking me if i have an sftp running Jun 14 22:02:15 but im 99 percent sure i do Jun 14 22:02:24 anything i can type when ssh'd in to assure im not a tard? Jun 14 22:02:44 whoami Jun 14 22:02:47 what does that return ? Jun 14 22:02:51 :) Jun 14 22:03:13 preuser Jun 14 22:04:01 wait Jun 14 22:04:06 i think that was a linux tard joke Jun 14 22:04:09 hrmph Jun 14 22:05:46 * rwhitby has updated http://predev.wikidot.com/tethering Jun 14 22:05:46 Quick question....if we enable ssh access, can only the account we created gain access that way, or does root have ssh access by default? Jun 14 22:06:27 FuMan: plenty of other places on the internet where editor instructions are listed. We're not going to replicate them. Jun 14 22:06:45 g_money: the method was put in place specifically to not allow root access over ssh Jun 14 22:06:53 without su ofcourse Jun 14 22:06:59 cool, that's what I thought. Jun 14 22:07:02 Just wanted to confirm Jun 14 22:07:17 g_money: I'm expecting that root access with ssh keys is possible, and am waiting for someone to test that ... Jun 14 22:07:22 Its time to kick ass and chew bubble gum Jun 14 22:07:38 without ssh keys explicitly set up, root access is intentionally disabled Jun 14 22:08:16 myusername ALL=(ALL) ALL Jun 14 22:08:16 myusername ALL=NOPASSWD: /opt/libexec/sftp-server Jun 14 22:08:16 Quit and save your changes (ESC :x) Jun 14 22:08:23 oc80z: .. and your all out of gum? Jun 14 22:08:24 just stuff like that, its incredibly helpful Jun 14 22:08:39 Thanks! I thought that was the case. As I am a novice Linux user, I wasn't sure. Thanks for the great help! Jun 14 22:11:52 How come reboot doesn't work after I just finished up enabling SFTP? Jun 14 22:12:30 The actual reboot command. It worked once. Jun 14 22:12:43 It does, but I think the path variable gets screwed up for the new user Jun 14 22:12:47 you have to run /sbin/reboot Jun 14 22:12:57 That's what I thought Jun 14 22:13:10 That maybe it needed a path to it Jun 14 22:13:17 That works I guess, thanks. Jun 14 22:13:41 Is there any way I can modify the path variable? Jun 14 22:13:45 though Jun 14 22:14:37 i wonder how many people's first unix box is a palm pre? Jun 14 22:14:44 <-- Jun 14 22:14:48 haha Jun 14 22:14:59 lol Jun 14 22:15:02 Ah! I didnt realize you need to get luna out of the way to get directfb working. Doh! Jun 14 22:15:07 Well, not technically. But for the most part this is the most bash I've ever had Jun 14 22:15:23 dreadchicken: I expect many - it was definitely the case in nslu2-linux.org, and we always had to write the instructions with that in mind. Jun 14 22:15:25 ripper: How do you modify the path variable? Jun 14 22:16:02 looking into the best way right now. Maybe just copy roots .bash_profile Jun 14 22:16:03 quick request: can someone get me the logo.png file from NY Times app directory Jun 14 22:16:03 dreadchicken: I have been windows free since '99 but working drivers and KDE has spoiled me over the years ;) Jun 14 22:16:04 zonyl :P bazooka mode enabled! Jun 14 22:16:08 :F Jun 14 22:16:13 it's under /var/usr/palm/applications/ Jun 14 22:16:18 *I think* Jun 14 22:16:20 In http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access, we should be able to swap the order of steps 2 and 3, since ipkg-opt installation of packages shouldn't require read-write / access. Jun 14 22:16:25 oc80z: zactly! Jun 14 22:16:43 the sftp-access wiki page is completely off Jun 14 22:16:54 h2d2: why? Jun 14 22:17:08 it's really as simple as getting the sftp package Jun 14 22:17:23 then use the same port and creds for WinSCP Jun 14 22:17:30 ripper: When you figure it out, can you PM it to me? I've gotta go out on the town for a bit. Thanks for helping Jun 14 22:17:31 Oh wait, of course there isn't a bash profile. I have no idea how to do it in busybox. Jun 14 22:17:42 ripper: Oh, well... Jun 14 22:17:47 If anyone figures it out, PM me. Jun 14 22:17:58 h2d2: how do you get it to run sftp-server as root? Jun 14 22:17:59 and use "sudo su -c /opt/libexec/sftp-server" in WinSCP Jun 14 22:18:05 under Environment >> WinSCP Jun 14 22:18:08 that's it Jun 14 22:18:20 no I run it as my secondary user Jun 14 22:18:21 h2d2: how does the sudo password get typed? Jun 14 22:18:39 i haven't used linux in a long while, this helped me get back up to speed with file hierarchy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard Jun 14 22:18:48 you don't get asked for it in WinSCP because it's sudo doing su Jun 14 22:19:08 h2d2: do you have NOPASSWD in your sudoers file or something? Jun 14 22:19:14 nope Jun 14 22:19:41 so how does sudo (running as preused) run a command as root, without getting preuser's password? Jun 14 22:20:03 rwhitby: i think you need myusername ALL=NOPASSWD: /opt/libexec/sftp-server in sudoers for that Jun 14 22:20:20 timepants: exactly, but h2d2 says he does not have that Jun 14 22:20:21 otherwise you'd have to enter the password somehow Jun 14 22:20:29 yeah i'm skeptical Jun 14 22:20:34 timepants: that's what I'm saying. Jun 14 22:20:40 I haven't used PSFTP to do in command, but if WinSCP logs in successfully Jun 14 22:20:47 I don't think it gets prompted Jun 14 22:20:54 I'm giving h2d2 the benefit of the doubt until I found out what he is doing ... Jun 14 22:20:57 So, /etc/profile has has a case statement so it only sets the path variable for root. Anyone have any idea why and if it'd break anything to remove the case statement so it sets that for all users? Jun 14 22:21:21 ripper: /sbin is by convention only for root access Jun 14 22:21:42 of course I have to start a parallel ssh connection to mount / to be writable Jun 14 22:22:07 h2d2: ah, so sudo has cached your password since you ran it in the other window Jun 14 22:22:22 ahhh... perhaps Jun 14 22:22:28 that might do it Jun 14 22:22:29 ahh, the meaning of /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin and /usr/sbin. Jun 14 22:22:39 now I know how you're doing it, so we can't change the instructions as a result. Jun 14 22:22:44 I have to repeat my steps to see if it only works after I remount Jun 14 22:22:56 Okay, but those don't get loaded into path even after running sudo su, despite the fact that your user id is reported as 0. Jun 14 22:23:12 but have we updated to remove the old ipkg directions? Jun 14 22:23:21 ripper: did you use the switch on su to run the environment? Jun 14 22:23:37 h2d2: what old ipkg directions? Jun 14 22:24:24 they're not there Jun 14 22:24:33 I hadn't check the page since this morning Jun 14 22:24:43 i'll be back around 12midnight to help out if anyone cares :P Jun 14 22:24:53 so anyway, I am getting SFTP to work without modifying my sudoers file or doing visudo Jun 14 22:25:15 was that the big mystery? Jun 14 22:25:17 oh, no I wasnt. Never knew about the -l switch before Jun 14 22:25:22 Thanks rwhiby Jun 14 22:25:30 h2d2, i haven't checked today, but we do include instructions for removing dropbear from the system ipkg. Jun 14 22:25:51 we have a working nova* solution for linux yet? Jun 14 22:25:51 cool Jun 14 22:25:58 h2d2: no, but you're needing to type in your password Jun 14 22:26:37 the NOPASSWD line in sudoers is specifically so that's not required Jun 14 22:26:47 true, but since you need ssh to remount anyway, it's just retyping my password that's extra Jun 14 22:27:02 so the hottest phones on the market are all unix descendants, i find some humor in that. Jun 14 22:27:08 you only need to remount if your editing stuff outside of /opt or /var or /tmp ... Jun 14 22:27:12 alright. im outta here. see yall friday night sometime. Jun 14 22:27:14 or /media/internal for that matter Jun 14 22:27:22 later tictac Jun 14 22:27:28 have a good week Jun 14 22:27:40 jblebrun: lemme know if you chunk those out. jay@somerandomgeek.net Jun 14 22:27:58 hmmm, I get it now Jun 14 22:28:24 so I do need to modify my sudoers file and then I can skip my ssh connnection step Jun 14 22:28:45 h2d2: anyway, I'm hoping to find someone to help me test out direct root access without needing sudo at all, using ssh keys. Jun 14 22:28:45 but are we sure that the password from one SSH session gets cached for a parallel sftp session? Jun 14 22:28:50 h2d2: that is correct Jun 14 22:28:56 dreadchicken: When I worked for IBM, people used to laugh at mainframes and dumb terminals. Its seems like nowadays we are all heading back in a loop but we call it "cloud computing" Jun 14 22:29:18 rwhitby: I could not get it to work Jun 14 22:29:19 actually, the real move is to virtualization Jun 14 22:29:28 zonyl: it'll go full circle again, as soon as we have implants. Jun 14 22:29:40 I thought someone in the main precentral thread got it to work Jun 14 22:29:55 with ssh keys Jun 14 22:30:06 so anyone in here get the Nintendo thing working? Jun 14 22:30:07 JackieRipper: do you have the correct permissions on *every* directory above your authorized_keys file? Jun 14 22:30:27 heh... good point, checking Jun 14 22:30:28 h2d2: I haven't seen any posts on ssh keys in the precentral thread - got a URL? Jun 14 22:30:40 I have keys working perfectly for my regular user Jun 14 22:30:44 I think I was searching for "sftp" when I found it Jun 14 22:31:04 * zonyl waits for token ring to go back in style :) Jun 14 22:31:17 will have to dig, gotta get back to do some work for my day time job Jun 14 22:31:27 and then to my WebOS Slickdeals app Jun 14 22:31:29 h2d2: thx Jun 14 22:33:00 oh wait... Jun 14 22:33:11 When did the tethering section get taken off of the wiki? :( Jun 14 22:33:52 time to fire up google cache :-\ Jun 14 22:35:00 xandrake_: just hit the history button Jun 14 22:35:04 there was nothing there anyway Jun 14 22:35:39 rwhitby: still no joy Jun 14 22:35:42 Ah. Hmm. I can't wait for it to come out with tethering on another carrier then. Jun 14 22:35:53 w00t Jun 14 22:35:55 xandrake_: amen to that Jun 14 22:36:07 i got keys to work with the nintendo emulation Jun 14 22:36:11 JackieRipper: anything in /var/log/messages from dropbear? Jun 14 22:36:17 rwhitby: no write access for group or other from /var on down to /var/home/root/.ssh Jun 14 22:36:20 not sure how... it stopped working now, but i've made progress Jun 14 22:36:33 I've been out of town for one week without real access to irc and forums..anything big I missed? Jun 14 22:36:41 xandrake_: nintendo! Jun 14 22:36:46 zomg Jun 14 22:36:48 JackieRipper: can you telnet in, run dropbear in the foreground in verbose mode, and then see what it says? Jun 14 22:36:55 does the package come with roms? Jun 14 22:36:59 JackieRipper: alternatively, can you try out openssh instead of dropbear? Jun 14 22:37:06 xandrake_: you gotta compile fceux Jun 14 22:37:13 in the deb chroot Jun 14 22:37:15 xandrake_: one week is a *long time* here :-) Jun 14 22:37:18 looks like dropbear rejects root logins Jun 14 22:37:29 with good reason Jun 14 22:37:32 use su - Jun 14 22:37:39 ssh with root is the enemy Jun 14 22:37:47 not with keys Jun 14 22:37:56 oh, that's different ;) Jun 14 22:38:03 is dropbear running with the -w switch? Jun 14 22:38:19 JackieRipper: you updated to use -g instead of -w, right? Jun 14 22:38:25 hmmm Jun 14 22:38:37 in the upstart script Jun 14 22:39:41 * ripper is looking at how long ipkg-opt is taking to install emacs and wondering if this could be a bad idea. Jun 14 22:40:07 ripper: the flash is slow, and emacs is a big package :-) Jun 14 22:40:13 aha Jun 14 22:40:14 my pre charges at 8% per 15 minutes via usb port. Jun 14 22:40:22 JackieRipper: works now? Jun 14 22:40:36 finally got my pre yesterday -- damn thing kicks ass. Jun 14 22:40:45 i realize charge profiles are not linear, but kind of interesting anyways. Jun 14 22:41:05 yea jayrod, it's pretty nice so far Jun 14 22:41:06 besides what we are doing jayrod, it's a nice phone as well. Jun 14 22:41:18 dreadchicken: indeed. Jun 14 22:41:37 and plus, anything that runs an underlying linux OS is fine by me. :) Jun 14 22:41:46 the pre is starting to remind me of the n810 ... that makes calls Jun 14 22:41:53 the apps have some rough edges, but you can see the future. Jun 14 22:41:55 debian with homebrews. Jun 14 22:42:52 dreadchicken: yeah, but iPhone would of cost me $20 more a month with the same plan if on AT&T Jun 14 22:42:54 not worth it. Jun 14 22:43:00 apps will come, in my opinion. Jun 14 22:43:14 jayrod: no doubt Jun 14 22:44:01 user 'root' has blank password, rejected Jun 14 22:44:14 I think once they release the SDK a term app shouldn't be too far off. Unless one of you geniuses already got it done. Jun 14 22:44:23 does it break anything to set root's password? Jun 14 22:44:43 JackieRipper, we don't know...but it might do bad things Jun 14 22:44:46 JackieRipper: I wouldn't test it, personally. Jun 14 22:45:08 why don't you just create a standard user and just su to root? Jun 14 22:45:24 jayrod: we do Jun 14 22:45:28 rwhitby, i'm not sure palm has commented that they know or that any testing has been done with a passwd. Jun 14 22:45:34 xandrake_: i meant Jackie. Jun 14 22:46:21 don't login as root, you don't want root open to the world with no passwd...login as a user and su - / sudo to root. Jun 14 22:47:05 The reason for root login is for scp access that can edit files Jun 14 22:47:41 dreadchicken: the idea was to disable root logins with a password (-g) Jun 14 22:47:48 and use keys Jun 14 22:47:56 Jackie/ripper: i've just changed fstab to mount /media/internal owned by my non-root user Jun 14 22:48:29 Jackie/ripper: that gives you the ability to r/w to that partition via SFTP Jun 14 22:49:38 Okay. That partition isn't exactly what I was wanting it for though. And I think mount / that way would break things. Jun 14 22:49:39 ripper: I'm assuming you mean files owned by root? Jun 14 22:49:56 Yeah, It'd be nice to edit the app files in a gui via scp Jun 14 22:50:06 gotcha. Jun 14 22:50:24 How do I set up the chroot for nintendo? Jun 14 22:51:05 I'm waiting for a terminal app for the pre so you can talk to the underlying OS without having to SSH in, etc ;) Jun 14 22:51:18 jayrod, which os ? Jun 14 22:51:20 amen to that Jun 14 22:51:25 I know you guys might get this all the time, but how friendly is Palm towards this? Are they ambivalent? Do they help you guys out with little tidbits here and there when you need it, or is it mostly hands off? Jun 14 22:51:34 bpadalino: Pre's OS Jun 14 22:51:41 jayrod, which os do you run ? Jun 14 22:51:45 I'd be happy with a ssh client accessible from the gui Jun 14 22:51:50 bpadalino: forrrrr? Jun 14 22:51:55 your host computer Jun 14 22:51:57 jayrod: webshell works Jun 14 22:52:00 i mean Jun 14 22:52:02 w00t Jun 14 22:52:02 JackieRipper: Jun 14 22:52:07 i'm on a macbook right now bpa Jun 14 22:52:13 video coming up on youtube with nintendo (controls working!) Jun 14 22:52:18 I'm having problems running talk.py, you guys probably have answered this lots but I can't get it running. Jun 14 22:52:19 jayrod, you can get a usb terminal in OS X with no problems Jun 14 22:52:23 on the pre Jun 14 22:52:25 nebula: awesome Jun 14 22:52:25 no ssh required Jun 14 22:52:30 bpadalino: yes Jun 14 22:52:41 I mean an app ... in the launcher ... on the phone Jun 14 22:53:17 have we figured out if we can send arbitrary dbus commands through mojo ? Jun 14 22:53:39 there may be a "run command" dbus method sitting out there Jun 14 22:53:54 bpadalino, i assume we can, since that's pretty much how all the mojo stuff talks to the lower levels. Jun 14 22:53:54 brb Jun 14 22:53:56 If anyone wants to help me just message me or I guess I could paste my error here. Jun 14 22:54:12 http://webos.pastebin.com works for pasting ? Jun 14 22:54:24 EvanPro_: you done anything with mojo yet? Jun 14 22:55:46 whoiswhois: yeah, roughly... i started by taking an existing app and stripping it down, but i decided it would be a better learning experience to start from nothing and build the app from reference + the o'reily webcast.. but now i'm having trouble with my stage-assistant not firing right... Jun 14 22:55:58 to install doom, do you have to mount / as RW? Jun 14 22:56:11 whoiswhois: (building the gps app i've been blabering on about the last 2 days) Jun 14 22:56:14 hey, i just used the wiki commands to control the flash, and I was wondering if someone could clarify what each command was doing, specifically: "echo -n 1 >avinn" and "echo -n torch >mode" Jun 14 22:56:31 EvanPro_: any chance you figure you how to send the app to the pre without having to reboot Jun 14 22:56:42 or how to test it before sending it to the pre Jun 14 22:57:11 whoiswhois: negative... there's a service you can restart but i forget what it is... but once you have it up, you can just sftp the files over and re-run the app without restarting. Jun 14 22:57:16 Anyone wanna help me rooting the palm pre? :[ Jun 14 22:57:35 MattAspira: you follow the wiki? Jun 14 22:57:37 MattAspira: sure Jun 14 22:57:40 MattAspira: sure Jun 14 22:57:55 Yeah, it's getting an error with the port, but I have drivers installed, dev mode on, and firewalls disabled. Jun 14 22:57:58 whoiswhois: and someone on the forums supposedly had a way to run mojo in safari, but i tried it and had no luck.. so i'm just testing on the pre... really hard to debug this way though. Jun 14 22:58:17 I've also tried running talk.py with cygwin. Jun 14 22:58:24 you used ssh -p 222 user@IP? Jun 14 22:58:43 MattAspira: winxp? win7? vista? have you tried novaproxy.py? Jun 14 22:58:44 MattAspira: you have python installed? Jun 14 22:58:58 I'm on vista. I'll try novaproxy but I have no idea how to use it. Jun 14 22:59:06 I have little Linux knowledge. Jun 14 22:59:37 MattAspira: then what is your goal of rooting your pre, exactly? :) Jun 14 22:59:44 EvanPro_: i was just about to ask that Jun 14 23:00:02 Cant I install homebrew and other tweeks through rooting it? Jun 14 23:00:04 :] Jun 14 23:00:16 yea Jun 14 23:00:40 I gotta say, the call log showing call duration is a simple but awesome hack...that has already made it worth it for me :) Jun 14 23:00:53 Can't be too hard to mess with it, I'm a good programmer, just not good with Linux. Jun 14 23:00:58 That's one I'll have to add to my Pre. Jun 14 23:01:00 MattAspira: with little linux knowledge? depends on how clear the wiki articles are, and how closely you follow them... Jun 14 23:01:09 g_money: as is the timestamps in chat Jun 14 23:01:21 Yeah I know, I'm sure I'll run into problems with little wiki clarity. Jun 14 23:01:23 JackieRipper Yes! Jun 14 23:01:25 MattAspira: if you can use vi, ssh, mv, and tar i think thats enough Jun 14 23:01:33 Do I have to install and config apt-get on the pre or is it already in here? Jun 14 23:01:40 whoiswhois++ Jun 14 23:01:56 appears charging over usb = ~350ma while into mains is ~600ma Jun 14 23:02:03 don't know for touchstone yet. Jun 14 23:02:17 i wanna write an app catalog Jun 14 23:02:23 for syncing my apps Jun 14 23:02:28 Anyone interested in a dyndns update script? I'm not a member of the wiki, or I'd post it there Jun 14 23:02:46 whoiswhois: the Cyndia guy is porting Cyndia to webos. Jun 14 23:02:50 err, Cydia... Jun 14 23:02:54 Xandrake, I'll message you the error. Jun 14 23:03:00 ok Jun 14 23:03:14 umm Jun 14 23:03:15 JackieRipper, i just used ez-ipupdate into /etc/ppp/ip-up.d Jun 14 23:03:19 i dont want to steal apps Jun 14 23:03:23 i just want it for my apps Jun 14 23:03:41 dreadchicken: I had no idea that app existed Jun 14 23:03:43 is Cydia to steal apps? Jun 14 23:03:43 heh Jun 14 23:03:48 nvm Jun 14 23:03:49 its not Jun 14 23:03:52 lol Jun 14 23:03:52 on the debian tutorial, when those file systems get mounted, are they rw or ro? Jun 14 23:03:56 according to wikipedia Jun 14 23:04:23 JackieRipper, it does most of the dyndns and is standalone (other one i tried had deps) and will use ~600k for 2 sec on ip address change. Jun 14 23:04:36 i wanted to make my own app catalog as well, btw... but if Saurik is doing it... Jun 14 23:04:37 JackieRipper: catch you in about 1h to continue ssh key debug Jun 14 23:04:38 ^ ie. light Jun 14 23:04:40 * rwhitby bbl Jun 14 23:04:53 rwhitby: you told me to edit the wiki Jun 14 23:04:58 but its not open for editing Jun 14 23:05:24 whoiswhois: /msg'd you the pw Jun 14 23:05:26 dreadchicken: my script is way lighter than that :) Jun 14 23:05:31 k Jun 14 23:05:33 just uses wget Jun 14 23:08:09 silly question, how do I open a .js file off my pre to modify it? Jun 14 23:08:23 trying to follow this guide: http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher Jun 14 23:12:01 vi is built in but you can install nano off the repository also the same way you installed dropbear Jun 14 23:12:14 bpadalino: mojo does requests/subscriptions for services through something called "PalmServiceBridge" Jun 14 23:12:24 its a part of luna webkit Jun 14 23:12:56 try this from your terminal on your computer -- with your pre on wifi with ssh enabled: scp -p xxx.xxx.x.xxx:/path/tofile . Jun 14 23:12:56 there might be a service that'll allow you to run commands, maybe? Jun 14 23:13:03 nano is a pretty cool app Jun 14 23:13:15 I used to work with the author Jun 14 23:17:06 ncoffman: you can use VI over telnet or ssh on the device to edit files Jun 14 23:17:30 JackieRipper: Author of pico? Jun 14 23:17:52 Sargun: Your tracking script doesn't seem to work for me. Were you using the messaging interface at http://messaging.sprintpcs.com/? Jun 14 23:18:02 zonyl: nano's a clone of pico Jun 14 23:18:38 shaya: Yep. Didnt know if he was referring to the original auth or the clone auth. Jun 14 23:18:59 I've seen a few people ask about getting luna to reload without rebooting the phone Jun 14 23:19:06 pico/pine/c-client is from wustl Jun 14 23:19:11 lots of people involved in it Jun 14 23:19:12 kill -1 works on it sort of Jun 14 23:19:46 (on lunasysmgr) Jun 14 23:20:01 sort of? Jun 14 23:20:09 well it doesn't reboot Jun 14 23:20:12 but it restarts the UI Jun 14 23:20:22 anyone here have FCE working? Its clears the screen and hangs Jun 14 23:20:22 shows the splash screen, exits any running "app" Jun 14 23:20:48 but non-luna OS-level processes are unaffected Jun 14 23:20:55 zonyl: no the author of nano Jun 14 23:21:00 so for instance it doesn't drop the SSH connection Jun 14 23:21:13 it's just a pico work-alike. The share no code Jun 14 23:21:32 gotya Jun 14 23:21:56 JackieRipper: ah. Was wondering about that. I remember the big license problem a while back and didnt quite know how they resolved it Jun 14 23:21:56 looking at the phone display it appears to reboot (but I bet it's faster) Jun 14 23:22:04 and humorously, he wrote the first few versions in vi Jun 14 23:22:07 anyway, it works for changes to luna js Jun 14 23:22:10 or with vi, rather Jun 14 23:22:28 though now he claims he cannot use vi Jun 14 23:22:34 what do you guys use for SVN on Windows? Tortoise? Jun 14 23:22:44 JackieRipper: Self-hosted Editor now ;) Jun 14 23:24:03 aubilenon: it would only restart child/manged processes Jun 14 23:25:13 tmzt: right, of course Jun 14 23:25:51 Well, I have a mouse cursor now.. thats neat Jun 14 23:25:54 still having trouble with this, I have my modified js file, how do I load it onto the device, using teraterm's built in ssh scp, but it didnt seem to work Jun 14 23:26:12 zonyl: X? Jun 14 23:27:11 tmzt: Not exactly sure where that came from yet. Was playing with the directfb options and it suddenly appeared Jun 14 23:27:39 ok Jun 14 23:27:41 zonyl: write a wiki page "how to get a random mouse cursor" Jun 14 23:27:45 hehe Jun 14 23:27:46 (joking) Jun 14 23:28:23 EvanPro_: probably wouldnt be any less useful then some of the pages there.. Jun 14 23:28:33 not a terminal, person...can someone instruct me on how to load a modified file onto my device? Jun 14 23:28:34 lol Jun 14 23:29:04 i'm tempted to write one "how to follow the O'Reilly webcast exactly to the character, only to have a non-working mojo app." Jun 14 23:29:57 ncoffman: sftp -- see wiki. Jun 14 23:29:59 * zonyl got me thinking about getting X working with directfb Jun 14 23:30:57 well, why not just take it a step further and start getting some of the window managers running? lol Jun 14 23:32:35 I would just be happy with xterm at this point Jun 14 23:32:49 zonyl: ditto Jun 14 23:33:06 although, i'd prefer it in a card :-p Jun 14 23:33:34 Should line 30 of /etc/event.d/webos-sshenabler say "Remove" instead of "Remote"? Jun 14 23:36:30 does anyone have a backup of launcher-assistant.js, i forgot to copy mine before i edited it Jun 14 23:36:41 so if anyone has an unmodified one id appreciate a copy Jun 14 23:36:49 svn Jun 14 23:37:02 yeah im not sure how to get to that Jun 14 23:37:09 get tortoise Jun 14 23:37:25 or just browse to it w/ ur browser Jun 14 23:37:30 yeah Jun 14 23:37:32 whats the address Jun 14 23:37:53 j0sh: do you still have the restore image? you should be able to extract it from there Jun 14 23:38:52 http://svn.saurik.com/repos/webos-dev/trunk Jun 14 23:39:20 kevin-: there are palm folks here, and they have cautioned us on some things, and have confirmed things that we find out by ourselves. We hope to retain a good relationship. Jun 14 23:39:29 thanks Jun 14 23:39:43 a nice relationship might involve the SDK :) Jun 14 23:39:47 Well, I love 'em for it. Jun 14 23:39:49 :( Jun 14 23:40:19 any rumors as to when the SDK is coming? Jun 14 23:40:24 I am really looking fwd to it Jun 14 23:40:40 none Jun 14 23:41:01 other than some palm rep saying "near Pre release" Jun 14 23:41:22 I thought they were gonna release it the week of the iphone announcement to shift attentipon from it Jun 14 23:41:23 :) Jun 14 23:41:49 the hackability of the Pre news did pretty well on that Jun 14 23:41:59 not really Jun 14 23:42:08 it hasnt exactly gotten a lot of attention outside of the Pre community Jun 14 23:42:21 engadget is going nuts over it Jun 14 23:42:31 it is huge Jun 14 23:42:33 that's not for nothing Jun 14 23:42:41 we have some really great mods of the standard programs Jun 14 23:42:47 but people want to see apps Jun 14 23:42:49 stuff that even android as fulyl open source cant really compare to Jun 14 23:42:54 that's what they really want Jun 14 23:43:35 Orion_PK: i'm working on that part :).. so are a few others. Jun 14 23:43:39 obviously Jun 14 23:43:50 I'd personally prefer a slow and steady approach, rather than a splash on all the web sites and then a bazillion people coming in here looking for pre-built apps. Jun 14 23:43:51 yeah, but they are not accessible evan Jun 14 23:43:53 that's the problem Jun 14 23:43:58 you have to start somewhere. Jun 14 23:44:06 it's only been less than a week. Jun 14 23:44:09 not accessible to the average Pre user Jun 14 23:44:11 Orion_PK: without the sdk, debugging is a bitch.. that's the only holdup, really. Jun 14 23:44:28 and your stuff isnt going to be in the app store, people will have to root their phones Jun 14 23:44:34 steviebuns1++ it's better than making no progress at all, no? Jun 14 23:44:47 Orion_PK: there's no basis for your last statement Jun 14 23:45:07 how else are they going to get the app onto their phone rwhitby? Jun 14 23:45:14 anything done so far can be wrapped in an app, assuming the SDK allows shell commands Jun 14 23:45:21 what? Jun 14 23:45:23 got my ssh working and trying to get sftp set up, but it doesnt seem to like sudo -i to get access, any hints? "-sh:s sude: not found" is what i get Jun 14 23:45:28 palm said you can put apps you downloaded from online rather than depending on the app catalog Jun 14 23:45:40 hmm, interesting Jun 14 23:46:08 plus we're exploring avenues that isn't directly limited to just HTML/JS/etc based webOS applications Jun 14 23:46:08 ncoffman: sudo, not sude Jun 14 23:46:11 Orion_PK: we haven't even started playing with disribution yet... step 1: build the apps.. step 2: figure out distribution. Jun 14 23:46:15 su - Jun 14 23:46:21 agreed Jun 14 23:46:23 rwhitby: typo in irc, not ssh Jun 14 23:46:36 ncoffman: try /opt/bin/sudo then Jun 14 23:46:58 EvanPro_: ipkg-opt handles the distribution Jun 14 23:47:16 that's what I'm really looking forward to shinali Jun 14 23:47:32 has anyone made the exact modifications listed in the instructions to modify applauncher-controller.js to enable adding pages Jun 14 23:47:32 we can provide an app via the app store (assuming Palm allows it) that can set up ipkg-opt as it is now done manually, then another app which is a gui interface to ipkg-opt Jun 14 23:47:36 and ended up breaking launcher Jun 14 23:48:27 rhitby: still get a "-sh: /opt/bin/sudo: not found" Jun 14 23:48:43 ncoffman: is /opt mounted, have you installed sudo? Jun 14 23:48:49 rwhitby: yeah, that's how i'd really like to see it done... part of me wonders if we'll be able to just straight download an ipk file from the browser, like palmOS could do with PRC's. Jun 14 23:49:04 EvanPro_: I doubt it. Jun 14 23:49:24 rwhitby: ditto.. but you must agree, that'd be nice :) Jun 14 23:49:25 but you never know - someone might be able to write some browser plugin that does it Jun 14 23:49:34 i think? i went through the optware package wiki Jun 14 23:49:45 ncoffman: echo $PATH Jun 14 23:50:07 JackieRipper: he couldn't find /opt/bin/sudo, so $PATH is not used Jun 14 23:50:19 oops, nm Jun 14 23:50:35 shows me I have to read, not just skim :-P Jun 14 23:50:49 amen. Jun 14 23:51:02 USER@castle:~$ echo $PATH Jun 14 23:51:39 it definately seems to cache javascript grr Jun 14 23:51:40 hmm cant copy path in here Jun 14 23:51:45 i hate having to pkill LunaSysMgr Jun 14 23:52:20 ncoffman: put a dor before the first / Jun 14 23:52:23 uh oh... "Passwords for _user_ don't match. Password for _user_ is unchanged." -- got that when running adduser command. what is the default password? Jun 14 23:52:25 er, a dot Jun 14 23:52:46 examancer: just run passwd user Jun 14 23:52:51 thanks Jun 14 23:52:54 right. forgot i'm root Jun 14 23:54:09 is there a reason to not change the password for root, btw Jun 14 23:54:18 or should i just leave it whatever the default is Jun 14 23:55:10 j0sh: if you're willing to use the doctor if it doesn't work, I'd be interested in seeing what a '*' in the pw field of /etc/password does for enabling root ssh key access ... Jun 14 23:55:19 haha Jun 14 23:55:25 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9834/more-pre-hacks-and-inner-details-revealed/ has a good explanation of Optware for those interested ... Jun 14 23:55:30 yeah i dont really want to be forced to start over Jun 14 23:55:50 i changed my root pass to my own password though Jun 14 23:56:11 isnt there a generally available emulator though Jun 14 23:56:14 to test stuff like that Jun 14 23:57:15 no Jun 14 23:57:18 only in the sdk ugh Jun 14 23:57:22 so when is IRC coming to the Pre Jun 14 23:57:26 j0sh: apparently those who have the SDK are not allowed to say so, or release any details gained from it Jun 14 23:57:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYxAEEHsmeE Jun 14 23:57:38 nintendo with control Jun 14 23:57:48 shit i think i'm going to pick up a beagleboard Jun 14 23:57:48 (before it was just loading the rom) Jun 14 23:57:51 Orion_PK: optware has irssi - we're just waiting for a terminal app Jun 14 23:58:38 running natively? Jun 14 23:59:17 sheeet, i'll do bitchx if there's a armel port Jun 15 00:01:24 nebula: already in optware Jun 15 00:01:32 rwhitby: nice Jun 15 00:01:32 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/bitchx_1.1a-final-1_arm.ipk Jun 15 00:01:59 Orion_PK: all optware packages run natively, but without GUI Jun 15 00:02:25 hence the need for a good multi-card terminal app, or a public SDK to wrap them. Jun 15 00:02:29 we can run bitchx on our pre? Jun 15 00:02:39 yeah, only in terminal though Jun 15 00:03:04 anybody want to try this out: http://predev.wikidot.com/shell Jun 15 00:03:05 you guys have done some excellent work with making the root and optware processes as non-invasive and Palm update friendly as possible. Bravo! Jun 15 00:04:05 whoiswhois: that's awesome :) Jun 15 00:04:14 is there a way to make links in the launcher? Jun 15 00:04:37 That way you could just link to 12.0.0.1:8022 and not have to worry about rememebering it Jun 15 00:04:38 im loving this phone. Jun 15 00:05:03 umm... hi from inside the palm pre Jun 15 00:05:04 whoiswhois: didn't you say that eats 80% cpu? Jun 15 00:05:10 umm Jun 15 00:05:12 this is um... bitchx running ipkg Jun 15 00:05:14 only when you use top Jun 15 00:05:18 :) Jun 15 00:05:20 summatusmentis: so from there we're able to telnet\ssh into any shell account? Jun 15 00:05:23 jk Jun 15 00:05:26 ok, proven... im out Jun 15 00:05:40 there ya go Jun 15 00:05:42 when ur not using it, its less than 1% Jun 15 00:05:47 access: that should provide a terminal Jun 15 00:06:40 theres an on screen keyboard too Jun 15 00:06:47 summatusmentis: so then its not like we're running bitchx from the phone. so its the connection that eats up the cpu? Jun 15 00:06:51 so you can turn it horizontal Jun 15 00:07:09 access: you can run bitchx on the phone if you want Jun 15 00:07:10 use irssi in a screen Jun 15 00:07:20 that way you never miss anything Jun 15 00:07:23 that's providing a local terminal, but you can use it to get anywhere Jun 15 00:07:33 You guys Jun 15 00:07:40 I love this phone so much that I'm about to cry chick-flick style. Jun 15 00:07:48 hehe Jun 15 00:07:53 serious shit Jun 15 00:08:01 jblebrun, rofl Jun 15 00:08:12 we need quotes here. Jun 15 00:08:18 It's only a[n awesome] phone... Jun 15 00:08:38 how much disk space it take up whoiswhois ? Jun 15 00:08:45 and where are the screen shots!?!? Jun 15 00:08:48 whoiswhois: nice one Jun 15 00:08:51 theres one Jun 15 00:08:59 use weechat in a screen Jun 15 00:09:02 whoiswhois: how good is the terminal? can it run emacs well? Jun 15 00:09:08 haha Jun 15 00:09:08 no Jun 15 00:09:10 it sucks Jun 15 00:09:18 but if you are an irc addict, its good enough Jun 15 00:09:24 http://twitpic.com/7cvjs Jun 15 00:09:29 sure thing. nice work. Jun 15 00:10:07 outstanding, that's going on my box as soon as the kiddos are in bed. Jun 15 00:10:23 that is a great find! Jun 15 00:10:33 I only just noticed that screen is installed by default. Thanks, Palm. :) Jun 15 00:10:33 i actually used it yesterday to chat Jun 15 00:10:34 whoiswhois: come on you can give us a better pic than that can't you Jun 15 00:10:42 the onscreen keyboard is awful Jun 15 00:10:42 whoiswhois: see /msg Jun 15 00:11:44 JimShoe: one sec Jun 15 00:12:10 whats the password for root, I cant ssh into the root account Jun 15 00:12:18 nothing Jun 15 00:12:27 oh Jun 15 00:12:30 u cant Jun 15 00:12:44 wooo Jun 15 00:13:06 is there a way to go back to telnet so i can eanble su on the user i created? Jun 15 00:13:31 JimShoe: wat u wanna see Jun 15 00:13:33 ncoffman: you didn't do that as part of http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository ? Jun 15 00:14:03 i think i forgot, i was having clean access agent mess around with my internet, so i was distracted Jun 15 00:14:06 time to restore? Jun 15 00:14:25 you should be able to just repeat the root access steps Jun 15 00:14:40 and do the steps you missed in http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 15 00:14:50 okay, ill try that, thanks Jun 15 00:15:49 whoiswhois: i don't know something with some info Jun 15 00:16:10 let's see the keyboard Jun 15 00:17:27 whoiswhois: are you using webshell with dropbear or openssh? Jun 15 00:18:31 dropbear Jun 15 00:18:47 who wants to build me a status bar on the startup palm screen? :) or at least an area below the palm logo that shows the text of what's going on... Jun 15 00:21:08 i guess I made a mistake in creating my 'sudoers' file and I get " /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 31" ... how do I restore root access so I can fix the file? Jun 15 00:21:28 will re-running the python script accomplish that? Jun 15 00:21:43 examancer: just repeat the root access steps Jun 15 00:21:51 thanks Jun 15 00:22:01 you have to do "sh make_certificate.sh" or make make_certificate.sh executable Jun 15 00:22:05 that step seems to be missing Jun 15 00:22:32 the command is also missing the ".sh" Jun 15 00:22:37 or the file, rather Jun 15 00:23:15 that is, the name of the file is make_certificate.sh, not make_certificate Jun 15 00:23:47 If it's still being discussed, I am logging in with a DSA key Jun 15 00:23:54 thanks rwhitby Jun 15 00:23:59 I saw some people asking about it earlier, don't know if anyone still cares :-) Jun 15 00:24:05 trying to get back to be able to telnet into root, but talk.py is no longer working correctly, do I need to take it in and out of dev mode or something? Jun 15 00:24:06 jblebrun: I care Jun 15 00:25:04 I just used the id_dsa.pub that I've been using for other servers... it and "just worked" Jun 15 00:27:31 jblebrun: are you logging in as root with the key, or as the user you created? Jun 15 00:27:46 as a user. Was the question doing it as root? Jun 15 00:27:54 yeah Jun 15 00:27:56 oh Jun 15 00:27:58 Sorry :-) Jun 15 00:28:03 no worries Jun 15 00:28:26 I'm happy running sudo bash Jun 15 00:29:45 it's a wonder how i ever lived without this phone. Jun 15 00:29:48 http://twitpic.com/7fdyq Jun 15 00:29:56 jblebrun: so where did you end up putting authorized_keys for the user? Jun 15 00:30:05 jblebrun: can you create a wiki page for it please? Jun 15 00:30:13 so rooting the device only lasts until a reboot? i shouldn't be able to telnet into it with 'root' after restarting, right? Jun 15 00:30:21 I put it in ~username/.ssh/authorized_keys Jun 15 00:30:33 .ssh chmod to 700, authorized_keys chmod to 400 Jun 15 00:30:33 jblebrun: ok, so nothing out of the ordinary then Jun 15 00:30:36 nope Jun 15 00:30:36 irc! Jun 15 00:30:56 whoiswhois: you need a pic of you announcing it in this channel ... Jun 15 00:31:10 cant Jun 15 00:31:20 dont have an ssh server on my linux boxes at home Jun 15 00:31:24 and i dont have irssi on the phone Jun 15 00:31:41 and my school is retarded and blocks all irc channels and freenode dont support ssl Jun 15 00:32:13 i think ive covered every excuse Jun 15 00:32:55 okay now i'm really starting to get a hang of this mojo stuff.. should have my app done soon :) Jun 15 00:33:10 blog about it Jun 15 00:33:19 so i dont have to figure it out Jun 15 00:33:24 +1 Jun 15 00:33:26 :-) Jun 15 00:33:32 evanpro, whats your opinion about it ? Jun 15 00:33:38 am i correct in assuming that right now the only way to launch the NES emulator is through a telnet/ssh session from an external device? Jun 15 00:34:00 whoiswhois: reckon you can do the debian chroot from the webshell? Jun 15 00:34:02 loving it so far, except i hate how some changes to an app require a reboot, but some don't.. i haven't figured that out yet. Jun 15 00:34:24 rwhitby: i dont know what that is Jun 15 00:34:28 i use arch Jun 15 00:34:32 obviously, i'm sure the sdk tools will fix that. Jun 15 00:34:42 if i had a working emulator, it wouldn't be a problem :) Jun 15 00:34:57 examancer: probably only until nebula works out whoiswhois's webshell Jun 15 00:35:09 question -- didn't see anything on wiki about how to access the pre from a linux machine...does that mean it hasn't been figured out yet? Jun 15 00:35:10 cool. thanks again Jun 15 00:35:30 xcomp: the rooting process hasn't been done from linux yet, afaik Jun 15 00:35:30 xcomp: once you get ssh set up( it rooted ), you can ssh in fine Jun 15 00:35:33 so the login for the user I created isn't working. what command do I execute to change the password for that user (im root right now) Jun 15 00:35:42 but until then you need XP or mac OS X Jun 15 00:35:49 or an emulator Jun 15 00:35:51 thanks...got it Jun 15 00:36:23 am I supposed to plug in the pre before or after installing novacomd? Jun 15 00:36:34 xcomp: doesn't matter really Jun 15 00:36:40 afaik :-P Jun 15 00:37:02 I'd install novacomd first. Jun 15 00:37:07 the novacomd installer seemed to hang at the end so I was wondering if that had something to do with it. I'll try again Jun 15 00:37:39 mrjcarter: passwd (usernmae) Jun 15 00:38:03 xcomp: it should take a while at the end, and then just dissappear. that is the extent of the install Jun 15 00:38:13 i see, thanks Jun 15 00:39:16 tmzt: thanks Jun 15 00:41:00 hey guys, question: when it says "Run talk.py inside of subversion", it means just to run it with pyton, right? Jun 15 00:41:30 Sometimes I think we should change the instructions to use novaproxy instead of talk. Jun 15 00:41:30 yeah Jun 15 00:41:33 run it with python Jun 15 00:41:48 go for it Jun 15 00:41:55 done. Jun 15 00:42:11 asedeno, can python talk to usb ala libusb easily in windows ? Jun 15 00:42:42 No idea. I've never done anything directly with usb. Jun 15 00:42:59 Not at that level, anyhow. Jun 15 00:43:32 Maybe I'll change the instructions after I (or someone) adds telnet negotiation to the proxy so we can stop using raw mode and such. Jun 15 00:43:39 anyone good at troubleshooting python problems? Jun 15 00:44:07 got the webshell working, had to give the full path of ssh in the command Jun 15 00:44:13 hmm Jun 15 00:44:17 but its pretty unusable D: Jun 15 00:44:25 does the palm cautioning against tethering mean we were close? Jun 15 00:44:29 telnet negotiation ? Jun 15 00:44:55 asedeno_home: you read up on the arm archietecture? Jun 15 00:45:01 asedeno_home: I agree we should change the root instructions to those that have least problems Jun 15 00:45:02 letting PuTTY and the proxy negotiate turning off echo and such. Jun 15 00:45:09 do i need to be running python to telnet to it/ Jun 15 00:45:14 i got a dumb question Jun 15 00:45:16 Also, terminal resizing. Jun 15 00:45:22 i have no idea wtf the ip register is Jun 15 00:45:23 asedeno_home: ah interesting Jun 15 00:45:41 ShinAli: some Jun 15 00:45:56 I'm leaning toward installing openssh and dumping Dropbear Jun 15 00:46:11 JackieRipper: reasons? Jun 15 00:46:16 (I would agree, BTW) Jun 15 00:46:20 I can't seem to ssh out usign a key Jun 15 00:46:28 asedeno_home: you know whats the ip register is for? Jun 15 00:46:43 JackieRipper: dropbear client doesn't do agent forwarding, if that's what you're attempting Jun 15 00:46:44 or even yo localhost Jun 15 00:46:46 ip = instruction pointer ? Jun 15 00:46:47 ShinAli: one sec, let me pull up the list and post a link Jun 15 00:46:56 no, that's pc (program counter) Jun 15 00:47:07 here's one: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms253914(VS.80).aspx Jun 15 00:47:15 EvanPro_: hows the dev going Jun 15 00:47:22 pc is current instruction plus 8 bytes (8 cause it already loaded the next instruction) Jun 15 00:47:47 intra-procedure call? Jun 15 00:47:48 not even agent forwarding, just pointing it to a private key Jun 15 00:48:07 intra-procedure call scratch register Jun 15 00:48:09 interesting Jun 15 00:48:15 help- i cant telnet to it. I used my wifi connection to get the IP address, tried to putty through- connection refused. Jun 15 00:48:31 no Jun 15 00:48:32 any suggestions? Jun 15 00:48:35 8 for pipeline Jun 15 00:48:42 so arm==+8 Jun 15 00:48:59 then thumb==+4 Jun 15 00:49:01 access: if you installed the dropbear ssh server then by default its configured to listen on 222 Jun 15 00:49:03 JackieRipper: what does verbose mode or logs say? Jun 15 00:49:45 rwhitby: there's no -v option Jun 15 00:49:58 chron: thumb instructions are 2 bytes right? Jun 15 00:49:58 j0sh: havnt done that step yet. the steps say to telnet first, which i cant. Jun 15 00:50:04 rwhitby: the error I'm getting is ssh: exited: string too long Jun 15 00:50:08 yup Jun 15 00:50:12 ah ok Jun 15 00:50:13 hehe Jun 15 00:50:14 string too long Jun 15 00:50:21 tried both an rsa key and a dsa key - same error Jun 15 00:50:22 did the talk.py script work? Jun 15 00:50:31 did you get the correct output Jun 15 00:50:33 so I just got webshell working, but when I go to 127... it doesn't ask for password Jun 15 00:50:34 its listed on the page Jun 15 00:50:39 just says "Can't find ssh" Jun 15 00:50:43 and then disconnects me Jun 15 00:51:12 rrryanc: change the startup command to /opt/bin/ssh Jun 15 00:51:12 chron: can you give me a brief description on what the ip reg is for? Jun 15 00:51:25 ahh gotcha Jun 15 00:51:28 j0sh: no errors when running it with pyton. its just extracted that file. Jun 15 00:51:30 rrryanc: that is, specify the full path to ssh Jun 15 00:51:37 extracted? Jun 15 00:51:40 yup yup, makes sense, thanks Jun 15 00:51:43 timepants: can you update the wiki with that fix please? Jun 15 00:51:47 or rrryanc Jun 15 00:52:01 don't have access I don't think Jun 15 00:52:02 but sure Jun 15 00:52:11 extracted a file named: conv Jun 15 00:52:11 you ran the talk.py script while the pre was connected via USB after installing the drivers, got the correct response, and telnet doesnt work? Jun 15 00:52:20 i am not sure Jun 15 00:52:23 rrryanc: /msg'd you the wiki pw Jun 15 00:52:27 oh wait Jun 15 00:52:29 i have only used ip when making syscalls in asm Jun 15 00:52:30 didnt do that. Jun 15 00:52:36 I'm trying to :wq this file I edited but it's telling me it's read only Jun 15 00:52:43 whoops Jun 15 00:52:56 ok- so have it on USB mode, run the talk.py file, then try the steps? Jun 15 00:52:59 am I missing something here? Jun 15 00:53:08 hmm Jun 15 00:53:11 well Jun 15 00:53:12 http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.dui0041c/ch09s02s02.html too, though technically that doc has been withdrawn, as per the huge watermark Jun 15 00:53:16 have it in dev mode Jun 15 00:53:19 did you do that Jun 15 00:53:28 yah, its on dev mode Jun 15 00:53:35 mrjcarter: you have to remount the root filesystem rw before editing whatever file you're editing Jun 15 00:53:38 and dont put it in usb storage mode Jun 15 00:53:40 just charge only Jun 15 00:53:47 ok, so now its on USB mode- will run talk.py Jun 15 00:53:56 you dont want it in usb mode Jun 15 00:53:59 im not sure if that works Jun 15 00:54:12 JackieRipper: sorry, but can you elaborate a little more? Jun 15 00:54:14 alright- back to charge mode. Jun 15 00:54:15 storage mode doesn't matter for getting in. Jun 15 00:54:18 yeah Jun 15 00:54:21 btw- thanks for the help man.. Jun 15 00:54:22 ok Jun 15 00:54:29 j0sh: usb mode worked when I did it... though milage may vary Jun 15 00:54:38 yeah, it didnt work for me Jun 15 00:54:41 charging.. Jun 15 00:54:43 protip: if your app doesn't show up in the launcher, make sure your appinfo.json isn't missing a comma... *sigh* Jun 15 00:54:45 then i did it in charge only omde and it worked Jun 15 00:54:45 mrjcarter: which wiki page are you following? Jun 15 00:54:51 I've been jumping back and forth between usb drive and charge without disconnecting, all while maintaining a terminal over novaproxy. Jun 15 00:54:56 http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher Jun 15 00:54:56 dev mode on Jun 15 00:55:06 Useful for file transfer. :) Jun 15 00:55:15 yeah Jun 15 00:55:16 anything i should be running on windows? Jun 15 00:55:22 i've edited the file, just need to save and quit now Jun 15 00:55:24 novacom should be able to do ftp Jun 15 00:55:30 long as python is installed the script should run Jun 15 00:55:35 and give you the success output Jun 15 00:55:39 does it? Jun 15 00:55:39 i'll figure that out once i am done with this terminal stuff Jun 15 00:55:40 mrjcarter: exit from vi, q! then run mount -o rw,remount / Jun 15 00:55:41 ok, so run talk.py Jun 15 00:55:41 asedeno_home: geist has been continually telling us that novaterm rules :-) Jun 15 00:56:03 dont just run it in a window that will close Jun 15 00:56:03 mrjcarter: then edit the files, then run mount -o ro,remount / Jun 15 00:56:10 novaterm, or novaproxy? Jun 15 00:56:12 make sure you can see the output Jun 15 00:56:16 novaterm Jun 15 00:56:17 thats what i was doing.. Jun 15 00:56:20 novacom Jun 15 00:56:20 yeah Jun 15 00:56:22 and novacomd Jun 15 00:56:22 just in case Jun 15 00:56:29 novaterm is just a small wrapper around novacomm, which looks really cool Jun 15 00:56:45 JackieRipper: I don't have to be root do I? Jun 15 00:56:47 (maybe novacom, I forget since I don't have one) Jun 15 00:56:57 mrjcarter: yes, indeed you do Jun 15 00:56:58 novacom .. Jun 15 00:57:10 asedeno_home: do you use windows then ? Jun 15 00:57:13 keep in mind that once you do enable root over telnet you have to do what youre going to do before rebooting, once you reboot that access is gone until you rerun the script Jun 15 00:57:13 how do i run it to view any errors? Jun 15 00:57:31 just execute the script in a command line Jun 15 00:57:58 bpadalino: yes Jun 15 00:58:17 are you the one who wrote novaproxy ? Jun 15 00:58:20 yes Jun 15 00:58:23 JackieRipper: ok, i've remounted. do I need go back and redo those changes now? Jun 15 00:58:30 j0sh Jun 15 00:58:31 do you have cygwin on your windows box ? Jun 15 00:58:34 , no errors Jun 15 00:58:36 yeah mrjcarter Jun 15 00:58:36 mrjcarter: yes Jun 15 00:58:37 you do Jun 15 00:58:38 IIRC, you did the packet capture that Sargun used to write talk.py? Jun 15 00:58:40 ok access Jun 15 00:58:43 yeah Jun 15 00:58:43 telnet should work Jun 15 00:58:56 yeah, I used what bits of it he posted to write novaproxy. Jun 15 00:58:58 i have os x and have been doing work using VM's .. Jun 15 00:59:00 that java app that shinali wrote should work better actually Jun 15 00:59:01 itll work over evdo IP or wifi IP Jun 15 00:59:02 either or Jun 15 00:59:13 geist, which one was that ? Jun 15 00:59:20 optian ip address from whatismyip.com? Jun 15 00:59:20 bpadalino: cygwin, of course I have it Jun 15 00:59:22 since it isn't just replaying stuff, it actually uses the com.palm.novacom classes inside the .jar file Jun 15 00:59:25 telnet, port 22? Jun 15 00:59:35 dont have to enter the port, but yeah Jun 15 00:59:37 23 Jun 15 00:59:50 mrjcarter: the idea is that the root filesystem is mounted read-only. In order to make changes, you have to remount it read-write, make your changes, then remount read-only again. You need to be root to do all of that Jun 15 01:00:15 FYI irc chat stats: http://webos.pastebin.com/mdf791cb Jun 15 01:00:18 still no luck Jun 15 01:00:25 used 23? Jun 15 01:00:26 geist: that little terminal thing i wrote? Jun 15 01:00:29 or no port number at all Jun 15 01:00:29 yah Jun 15 01:00:35 well Jun 15 01:00:39 make sure you have no firewall on Jun 15 01:00:49 and see if you can ping its wifi or evdo IP Jun 15 01:01:14 make sure you have the right address Jun 15 01:01:33 ShinAli: yeah Jun 15 01:01:36 i can ping to the ip Jun 15 01:01:48 if the script gave you the success output Jun 15 01:01:53 then you should be able to telnet in now Jun 15 01:01:56 no firewall running on windows? Jun 15 01:02:01 none Jun 15 01:02:24 try disabling wifi, going to whatismyip.com in the browser on the phone Jun 15 01:02:28 and using that IP address Jun 15 01:02:35 thats the cell network ip Jun 15 01:02:58 shinali, where is that terminal java program ? Jun 15 01:02:58 JackieRipper: thanks, im starting to understand. so I do need to remount it again after I :wq or am I done? Jun 15 01:03:08 let me post it again Jun 15 01:03:25 Hmmm Jun 15 01:03:33 I just did a passwordless login as root Jun 15 01:03:54 how can i check if dropbear is running on the device? Jun 15 01:03:55 jblebrun: what's the secret? Jun 15 01:04:02 opie_: ps -ef | grep dropbear Jun 15 01:04:05 ok now for the terminal I'm getting that localhost is not in the trusted hosts Jun 15 01:04:07 I had to *set* a root password Jun 15 01:04:25 jblebrun: does it work with '*' in the pw field for root (i.e. a disabled account) Jun 15 01:04:29 /* check for an empty password */ Jun 15 01:04:29 if (ses.authstate.pw_passwd[0] == '\0') { Jun 15 01:04:29 TRACE(("leave checkusername: empty pword")) Jun 15 01:04:29 dropbear_log(LOG_WARNING, "user '%s' has blank password, rejected", Jun 15 01:04:29 ses.authstate.pw_name); Jun 15 01:04:30 send_msg_userauth_failure(0, 1); Jun 15 01:04:32 return DROPBEAR_FAILURE; Jun 15 01:04:34 } Jun 15 01:04:48 I dunno, i'll try Jun 15 01:04:53 jblebrun: does it really check that even for ssh keys? Jun 15 01:05:11 Yes Jun 15 01:05:13 j0sh: bingo Jun 15 01:05:23 Yes it does that check before it gets to the kex code Jun 15 01:06:04 JackieRipper: oops, didn't see your last comment. Thanks. Jun 15 01:06:16 changing to * in /etc/passwd also works (it just can't be empty) Jun 15 01:06:32 bpadalino: http://webos.pastebin.com/f56d19183 Jun 15 01:06:37 j0sh: thanks again man- now i should setup the Optware package- right? Jun 15 01:06:55 ah right Jun 15 01:09:13 ok, I'm just spitting out an idea here, but rather than starting WebShell as a service, I'm thinking I could create an index.html that asks for a username, hostname and port, and then calls WebShell with the ssh command with the user's inputs.... possibly even allowing a user to copy a key to the fake usb drive and using that, too... Jun 15 01:09:32 oh also, you of course need to run it without -w in webos-sshenabler Jun 15 01:09:47 jblebrun: but with -g instead of -w, right? Jun 15 01:10:12 jblebrun: hmm - '*' in /etc/passwd will prevent telnet access, right? Jun 15 01:10:35 it works with or without -g Jun 15 01:10:41 access: yeah, definitely Jun 15 01:11:06 jblebrun: -g will disable root logins with a password, making it key-only Jun 15 01:11:07 jblebrun: right, but we want to keep -g there (it's there by default now) Jun 15 01:11:26 It should be there for thoroughness Jun 15 01:12:04 we never want to allow root access via password Jun 15 01:12:07 I worry that the * will disable access to things that are expecting no password, like telnet Jun 15 01:12:17 JackieRipper: yeah, I worry the same thing. Jun 15 01:12:46 :: means blank password, :*: means unusable password Jun 15 01:12:56 Yes. Jun 15 01:13:19 Do we have stable root access means that don't need telnet for all platforms yet? Jun 15 01:13:26 *shrug* Jun 15 01:13:31 I'm spoiled on an OS X machine Jun 15 01:14:12 jblebrun: are there internal processes that are depending on root's password being blank? Jun 15 01:14:20 that's my real worry Jun 15 01:14:25 That I don't know. Jun 15 01:14:43 I'll run my phone with root:* for a while and see what happens Jun 15 01:14:46 that, and messing up my ssh access, and needing to go to dev mode again Jun 15 01:14:50 is shutdown -r now the right way to reboot? Jun 15 01:14:54 I'd like to think not, but I can't say that with any certainty. Jun 15 01:14:56 I imagine it could end up being an issue during updates Jun 15 01:15:30 xcomp: I haven't been around for anything specific, but there is a "reboot" command in Linux Jun 15 01:15:32 very likely it would cause problems with updates i think Jun 15 01:15:34 I'm thinking of creating a failsafe user, in case I mess up ssh access with my main user again (like trying to change my shell to bash) Jun 15 01:15:35 /sbin/reboot works Jun 15 01:15:44 ryanworl: yeah reboot is a shortcut for that -- ok Jun 15 01:15:54 Well, next update, my phone is fubar anyway ;-) Jun 15 01:16:23 xcomp: why? Jun 15 01:16:53 xcomp: why do you think it will cause problems on update? Jun 15 01:17:00 (since the update will be running as root anyway) Jun 15 01:17:20 well we assume it's running as root Jun 15 01:17:25 well, another option is to patch dropbear to allow null-password root logins Jun 15 01:17:27 it's a trivial patch Jun 15 01:17:28 but supposing it isn't Jun 15 01:17:40 I can't see why anything actually already on the phone will depend on a blank root password, but I could easily be wrong. Jun 15 01:17:59 well someone's gonna have to try it out Jun 15 01:18:00 :) Jun 15 01:18:07 what is the size difference bewteen openssh and dropbear? Jun 15 01:18:49 it's simple enough to be done as post-install binary patch, if someone feels like dasming and digging :-) Jun 15 01:19:01 jblebrun: we don't wanna be patching dropbear to remove checks - think most recent Debian key security issue ... ;-) Jun 15 01:19:17 Fair enough Jun 15 01:19:47 hmmmm Jun 15 01:19:53 Although allowing passwordless telnet and simultaneously being worried about a no-pw root seems.... contradictory Jun 15 01:19:54 if you allowing root login with a null password, I don't think you're worrying about security much... Jun 15 01:20:04 brikus: we are never doing that Jun 15 01:20:38 rwhitby: jblebrun: well, another option is to patch dropbear to allow null-password root logins Jun 15 01:20:39 jblebrun: as soon as an alternate root access method is available, telnet instructions will be removed Jun 15 01:20:49 brikus: only for key access Jun 15 01:20:54 ah Jun 15 01:20:57 that makes sense Jun 15 01:20:57 gotcha Jun 15 01:21:00 rwhitby: I think it's best to just wait for that Jun 15 01:21:00 also Jun 15 01:21:21 I got root on my linux desktop using windows in VirtualBox Jun 15 01:21:28 root on the pre that is Jun 15 01:21:35 brikus: we want to allow ssh key access direct to root, but not password access to root. Jun 15 01:22:10 whats the command to remove a user that has been created? Jun 15 01:22:19 What's the issue with creating a user? Jun 15 01:22:31 created 2 users, need to delete one of them Jun 15 01:22:50 where is the config file for dropbear? All I see in /etc/opt/dropbear are the keys. I'm used to openssh Jun 15 01:22:53 jblebrun: no issue, just the hassle of having to have people configure WinSCP with the sudo command Jun 15 01:23:00 Ohhh Jun 15 01:23:03 rwhitby: what about setting root's passwd to nothing? That is, running passwd, then hitting enter twice? Jun 15 01:23:06 brikus: just install openssh then :-) Jun 15 01:23:11 yah, in dropbear Jun 15 01:23:24 JackieRipper: isn't that what it is now? Jun 15 01:23:40 I just tested it with a test user, and though it complains the pass is too short, it creates a hash, and allows login via ssh Jun 15 01:23:41 no, it's an md5 hash of null if you do it that way Jun 15 01:23:49 it isn't Jun 15 01:23:55 I see Jun 15 01:23:58 failsafe:$1$POe7e8He$Tqa6zqwkhfqfVF6.uMH/M0:1002:1002:Linux User,,,:/var/home/failsafe:/bin/sh Jun 15 01:24:05 that is a blank password Jun 15 01:24:09 JackieRipper: how do you delete the test users? Jun 15 01:24:15 sh run users? Jun 15 01:24:31 or whats the cmd to see users? Jun 15 01:24:35 JackieRipper: we don't want to be doing that for root, cause then forgetting to use -g on dropbear will open up a wide hole Jun 15 01:24:54 rwhitby: agreed the -g is important Jun 15 01:25:11 agreed rwhitby Jun 15 01:25:14 we can't decrease the security for convenience. we're looking for convenience while keeping the same security Jun 15 01:25:31 well, the -g is rather secure Jun 15 01:25:34 /opt/sbin/dropbear is about 183k, /opt/sbin/sshd 348k Jun 15 01:26:03 I'm leaning toward openssh, simply for key use on oubout ssh connections Jun 15 01:26:03 i'm following this halfways because it seems to me the problem is your workflows, not any issue with ssh. Jun 15 01:26:56 dreadchicken: the use case is easy access to files on the pre as root, from windows. Jun 15 01:27:17 dreadchicken: I agree for linux savvy people the workflow is enough Jun 15 01:28:20 So what's the flow if ssh breaks? Jun 15 01:28:30 how do you change the password for a user that you created with dropbear? Jun 15 01:28:38 is telnet just allows running, ready to accept a root lgin with null pssword? Jun 15 01:28:51 perish the thought and i haven't even seen it in many years, but how about the added user as 0:0 ? Jun 15 01:28:52 access: as root: passwd Jun 15 01:29:02 access: as the user: passwd Jun 15 01:29:20 * zonyl is finally playing super mario 3 on the pre.. whew Jun 15 01:29:26 thanks. :) Jun 15 01:29:27 think the old root and toor. Jun 15 01:29:58 jblebrun: we need a novacom solution for all platforms, which requires physical access to the device. that can have no root password required. all other access must be guaranteed no root password access, only root ssh keys. Jun 15 01:30:00 jblebrun: I believe telnetd is only running when you're in dev mode and have run talk.py Jun 15 01:30:28 Oh i see, so that telnet login only works through a cable? Jun 15 01:30:31 I like the toor idea Jun 15 01:30:48 toor w/passwd at 0:0 Jun 15 01:30:53 right Jun 15 01:30:57 I'll try it out Jun 15 01:31:03 toor with :*: Jun 15 01:31:30 keep a root session open JackieRipper, i don't know how linux reacts to the very old toor method. Jun 15 01:31:31 perhaps make the user 'konami' ;-) Jun 15 01:32:18 LOL Jun 15 01:32:20 konami:*:0:0:... Jun 15 01:32:29 yup, works Jun 15 01:34:21 zonyl: have keymap working? Jun 15 01:34:44 hell yeah.. got my gps app pretty much working :) Jun 15 01:34:53 is someone reversing novacom? Jun 15 01:34:58 i am Jun 15 01:35:00 any links for the sm3 game? Jun 15 01:35:08 So, can anyone see a downside for adding a konami:*:0:0 user and using that for all ssh access? Jun 15 01:35:09 rock Jun 15 01:35:18 hah Jun 15 01:35:25 and leaving Palm's root user as-is? Jun 15 01:36:08 rwhitby, it could break some scripts Jun 15 01:36:15 Sargun: how? Jun 15 01:36:48 rwhitby, I used to do it on our RHEL machines Jun 15 01:36:56 it broke a bunch of RPM updates Jun 15 01:37:04 because of UID collisions? Jun 15 01:37:11 jblebrun, ja. Jun 15 01:37:30 can a rooted Pre be upgraded to 1.0.2 OTA? If so, does it remain rooted? Jun 15 01:37:47 Ingenium13, who knows, someone try it! Jun 15 01:37:53 Mine came 1.0.2 Jun 15 01:38:04 as did mine Jun 15 01:38:04 Ingenium13: we want a tcpdump of a rooted Pre update Jun 15 01:38:23 Sargun: how did it break them? Jun 15 01:38:31 (it certainly won't break ipkg updates) Jun 15 01:39:13 evanpro: is your code in sharable state yet? Jun 15 01:39:16 rwhitby, wouldn't' distributing that be, uhm, illegal. Jun 15 01:39:25 Sargun: distributing what? Jun 15 01:39:33 a tcpdump of the update. Jun 15 01:39:40 we just want to analyze it Jun 15 01:39:46 not dist. Jun 15 01:39:54 Sargun: depends what's in it. agree with nebula Jun 15 01:40:15 Sargun: but your caution is warranted Jun 15 01:40:35 Did someone already tcpdump a "no-update" update? Jun 15 01:40:42 Could i ask a question? Jun 15 01:41:06 pojoman: It depends on the question. Jun 15 01:41:06 pojoman: you just did ;-) Jun 15 01:41:11 Grrr Jun 15 01:41:11 Im pretty dense when it comes to rooting this pre Jun 15 01:41:16 So i had a question Jun 15 01:41:16 I was trying so hard not to say that ;-) Jun 15 01:41:31 Well you've just spent 3 lines asking to ask, so have at it ;-) Jun 15 01:41:40 :-D Jun 15 01:41:42 Ok im working on wording Jun 15 01:41:45 Kaerey, hey Jun 15 01:41:54 pojoman: we're pretty friendly here, so just ask Jun 15 01:42:01 Ok, that's always promising! Jun 15 01:42:03 Turn on the wifi on your pre. Get your pre's IP address, and you can telnet into it (username: root) Jun 15 01:42:10 In this step is says get your pres ip Jun 15 01:42:13 How do you do thaT? Jun 15 01:42:42 go into wifi prefs on your pre Jun 15 01:42:48 and select the network you're on Jun 15 01:43:10 ahh Jun 15 01:43:10 Oh man that's way easier than what I did Jun 15 01:43:13 ok one more lol Jun 15 01:43:26 If you do not secure the network, your device will be accessible by anyone on the internet until rebooted. Jun 15 01:43:31 pojoman: and your payment for the answer is to go into the wiki and add that clarification :-) Jun 15 01:43:32 I went and looked at my router's DHCP table Jun 15 01:43:42 Kaerey, you there Jun 15 01:44:07 we really need to move on from that telnet method to something that works over usb only Jun 15 01:44:15 Thanks i dont much understand any of this wish i did Jun 15 01:44:17 So your tracking script Sargun, can you better explain for the less advanced. Like do you put it in a file with no extension? Jun 15 01:44:23 I just want nes emulator :< Jun 15 01:44:28 Kaerey, uhm, it doesn't matter Jun 15 01:44:36 rwhitby: btw, there is one plan (not available to the general public) that allows both tethering and the pre :) Jun 15 01:44:48 though not a good reason to change policy Jun 15 01:44:56 shaya: is that plan offered by Sprint for the Pre? Jun 15 01:45:05 the pre is activatable on it Jun 15 01:45:07 So how do you telnet into the pre with ip address? Jun 15 01:45:07 can I return the palm pre if I've exchanged it once already? Jun 15 01:45:12 pojoman: if you're expecting to run an NES emulator from anywhere as a regular app, we're not there yet Jun 15 01:45:12 employee plans :) Jun 15 01:45:21 as I said, not a good reason to change policy :) Jun 15 01:45:26 SERO? Jun 15 01:45:27 shaya: nod Jun 15 01:45:29 no Jun 15 01:45:31 not sero Jun 15 01:45:32 Ohhh Jun 15 01:45:36 actual employees? Jun 15 01:45:39 yes Jun 15 01:45:43 guys, quick Q about rooter... Does it work w/ Python 64bit / Win 7 64bit? Jun 15 01:45:43 webshell don't work too well does it Jun 15 01:45:45 Really Shin so what will i be doing exactly Jun 15 01:46:06 I guess its better i get a feel for this now so i dont have to spend time learning later Jun 15 01:46:14 Stik: we couldn't make it too good, or else it would stop development of a real multi-card terminal app ;-) Jun 15 01:46:26 True lol Jun 15 01:46:28 Kaerey, .sh is certainly an extension. Jun 15 01:46:37 I'm get'n the typical Errno 10061, but no firewalls are enabled, no AV installed Jun 15 01:46:55 linuxkidd, it should Jun 15 01:47:00 linuxkidd, are you even actually a kid? Jun 15 01:47:02 Ok thanks. I am going to try it with my finally working sftp read/write access Jun 15 01:47:13 My last name is Kidd.. Jun 15 01:47:19 KIDDDDD Jun 15 01:47:21 ROCK Jun 15 01:47:23 :D Jun 15 01:47:29 KHAAAAAAAAAAAN! Jun 15 01:47:36 Whoops. Wrong channel. Jun 15 01:47:54 so, ShinAli, any recommendations? Jun 15 01:48:14 for what Jun 15 01:48:37 if its anything about networking or linux admining i'm the wrong guy Jun 15 01:49:00 For the Errno 10061 on Win 7 64bit.. Jun 15 01:49:08 I can do networking and linux admin.. no problem. Jun 15 01:49:18 just try'n to get rooter to work Jun 15 01:49:34 I've verified that the firewall is off, and no AV is installed Jun 15 01:49:42 i don't think novacom drivers work in win7 Jun 15 01:49:50 hmm.. Jun 15 01:49:56 Hello all Jun 15 01:50:05 If they do...what should I see in DevManager for it? Jun 15 01:50:08 you could use a windows xp/vista vm Jun 15 01:50:16 palm novacom Jun 15 01:50:25 also.. I just selected 'charge' mode on the pre in dev mode.. Jun 15 01:51:01 I had to do it with vista in vmware Jun 15 01:51:07 wait Jun 15 01:51:10 bummer Jun 15 01:51:15 then how does the NES emulator work with the pre? Jun 15 01:51:31 chroot w/ directfb Jun 15 01:51:43 @linuxkidd: have you tried the built in XP vm in 7? Jun 15 01:51:55 NES: the directions on the wiki have issues. Jun 15 01:51:58 Hmm... good thought... haven't even toyed w/ that yet Jun 15 01:52:05 I am guessing that making scripts in event.d unexecutable will prevent them from running like any other init script eh? Jun 15 01:52:18 Ajaxify: whoa theres a XP vm in win7? Jun 15 01:52:18 Stik, no Jun 15 01:52:26 No? Jun 15 01:52:35 Bum Deal Jun 15 01:52:50 Would any one want to explain why we would want to install Optware? I am no linux guru by no means. So i really don't understand why we would need it Jun 15 01:52:54 Yup. http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/24/virtualized-windows-xp-coming-to-windows-7-professional-and-ulti/ Jun 15 01:53:05 Ajaxify: I think that's a new addition on RC1... I'm still running build 7000 on this box.. Jun 15 01:53:12 oh. :( Jun 15 01:53:36 I'd love it if the damn thing could be rooted from linux.. Jun 15 01:53:40 novacom is pretty small Jun 15 01:53:44 being the 'linux kidd' and all.. Jun 15 01:53:44 Jules: English, motherfucker! Do you speak it?! Jun 15 01:53:47 What is telnet :S Jun 15 01:53:48 thats really cool Jun 15 01:53:50 ROFL Jun 15 01:54:20 heh Jun 15 01:54:21 I understand linuxkidd. I love linux... when it works. Jun 15 01:55:19 Sargun: say what again Jun 15 01:55:29 Ajaxify: That's the fun of it.. get'n it to work! Jun 15 01:55:34 It's just the newest version of vpc with an xp VHD. Jun 15 01:55:37 nebula, look above: No? Jun 15 01:55:37 does anyone know how to use the webshell? when iconnect it just says "disconnected" Jun 15 01:55:50 FYI http://mobilitytoday.com/news/009562/Hidden_Palm_Pre_Features Jun 15 01:55:58 say what again, i dare you Jun 15 01:56:05 haha Jun 15 01:56:29 nebula, so, you successfully got the reference Jun 15 01:56:41 clean the car Jun 15 01:56:50 i got the reference :) Jun 15 01:56:52 please? Jun 15 01:56:55 I think it' Clean the fucking car. Jun 15 01:57:16 samuel l. jackson ftw. Jun 15 01:57:35 I believe his name is actually: Samuel L. Motherfucking Jackson. Jun 15 01:57:44 hahaha Jun 15 01:57:53 pyrognome: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9834/more-pre-hacks-and-inner-details-revealed/ has a good explanation of Optware Jun 15 01:57:54 Oh, I have Palm Novacom Modules now in the Dev Mgr... try'n rooter again. Jun 15 01:58:08 fuck me... still no joy Jun 15 01:58:21 anyone know the return policy of the pre? Jun 15 01:58:30 linuxkidd: service installed? Jun 15 01:58:37 jwm: 30 days i think Jun 15 01:58:38 jwm: should be 14 days just like any other sprint device Jun 15 01:58:43 hmmm? Jun 15 01:58:45 thought it was 30 Jun 15 01:58:51 could be wrong... Jun 15 01:58:53 I could be Jun 15 01:58:53 jwm, why do you wanna return it? Jun 15 01:59:04 I had thought it was 30 as well Jun 15 01:59:25 nebula: don't see a service... Jun 15 01:59:37 what would it be called ( checked under 'Palm' and 'Novacom', nothing ) Jun 15 01:59:59 does anyone know how to get webshell running Jun 15 02:00:12 wbeshell? Jun 15 02:00:18 linuxkidd: thats why it's not workin! Jun 15 02:00:23 It dont work very well Jun 15 02:00:26 what version of windows? Jun 15 02:00:42 Win 7 64bit, Build 7000 Jun 15 02:00:46 that, is why you fail. Jun 15 02:00:51 lol Jun 15 02:01:01 Well, I mentioned that when I first hopped in.. LOL Jun 15 02:01:05 i told you drivers don't work in win7 >:| Jun 15 02:01:05 doh! Jun 15 02:01:06 chris_l: Been trying to get a shell all weekend Jun 15 02:01:11 how come you're "linuxkidd"? Jun 15 02:01:14 Sargun: I did a stupid thing, I exchanged one because it had 7 stuck pixels in the center Jun 15 02:01:14 Well... I got the drivers work'n.. Jun 15 02:01:18 the drivers work i think, it's the service that doesn't Jun 15 02:01:20 what's the bestway to install g++? Jun 15 02:01:22 doesn't work for you either? Jun 15 02:01:26 chris_l: Couldnt get ajaxterm working which is the basis of webshell I believe Jun 15 02:01:28 o rite Jun 15 02:01:30 Sargun: the one I got in exchange is worse, it has dead and stuck pixels, squeaky back cover, and static in the phone Jun 15 02:01:31 vandi: ipkg-opt install optware-devel Jun 15 02:01:35 oh ok Jun 15 02:01:41 @aubilenon: I'm a linux nut, and my last name is Kidd Jun 15 02:01:44 jwm, weird Jun 15 02:01:46 I want to develop for the thing too Jun 15 02:01:47 heh Jun 15 02:01:47 vandi: careful of space requirements though Jun 15 02:01:54 thanks. Jun 15 02:01:57 chris_l: Im working on a old school way that we did for the zaurus. Im trying to get Xvnc running along with directvnc right now Jun 15 02:01:59 Sargun: this one also came up in spanish when we were setting it up Jun 15 02:02:06 when the guy hit english Jun 15 02:02:07 hehe Jun 15 02:02:10 chris_l: stuck on configuration for the mouse Jun 15 02:02:15 OH, the Zaurus... SL-5500... how I loved the Jun 15 02:02:19 it runs really hot when I am talking on the phone too Jun 15 02:02:22 Hey all.. I've been working through the phoneprefs app and luna files trying to figure out how to enable a "Roam Only" mode. I don't want to reinvent the wheel here. So just wondering if anybody else is working on it? Jun 15 02:02:22 like uncomfortable Jun 15 02:02:23 oh thats what it's expecting Jun 15 02:02:30 zonyl: what progress have you made with X? Jun 15 02:02:37 and then, the Nokia N810... now, the Pre... Jun 15 02:02:45 I love webos but hate the pre Jun 15 02:02:46 heh Jun 15 02:02:48 linuxkidd, Pre > Nokia N810 for now Jun 15 02:02:50 My keyboard is sloppier than a hooker but other than that it is great.. Jun 15 02:02:54 Gotta get an SSH app on the Pre... need to be able to manage my servers! Jun 15 02:03:12 nebula: Im trying to get directvnc running. Ran into: (#) DirectFBError [dfb->GetInputDevice( dfb, DIDID_MOUSE, &mouse )]: Requested ID not found! Jun 15 02:03:24 nebula: dont know anything about directfb config, but Im learning Jun 15 02:03:55 why is it that after i reboot, the ip changes, and i try to SSH to it, i cant (without usb connected) Jun 15 02:04:31 I was wondering since I've already exchanged this one if I take it back and get a refund Jun 15 02:04:36 can I buy another one after it? Jun 15 02:04:39 heh Jun 15 02:05:04 I guess I'll call sprint Jun 15 02:05:05 heh Jun 15 02:06:00 Alright, question. After flashing the phone, it doesn't go past the Palm screen at boot. Likely suspects? Jun 15 02:06:09 alright all... I guess I'll work up a VM to rooter my pre... :( Jun 15 02:06:15 thanks for the help! Jun 15 02:06:19 Have fun linuxkidd! Jun 15 02:06:31 and good luck. Jun 15 02:06:35 Thanks Ajaxify... I certainly will w/ Root access! :) Jun 15 02:07:54 Ok, I just transfered my verizon number to sprint with a new pre. They told me not to turn on my phone for 24 hrs. Will it really mess up my phone, or is this just BS? Jun 15 02:08:23 its BS Jun 15 02:08:27 wait til your other phone stops working Jun 15 02:08:29 wait 30 min Jun 15 02:08:35 then turn on ur pre Jun 15 02:08:50 what Orion_PK said. Jun 15 02:09:10 try ur voicemail on ur verizon phone Jun 15 02:09:12 til it stops working Jun 15 02:09:15 sweet thanks guys Jun 15 02:09:25 the LNP database is pretty quick to update.. never seen more than a 30 minute lag. Jun 15 02:09:47 mine had switched over by the time I got in my car after leaving the spring store Jun 15 02:09:57 EvanPro_, I've seen propagations take hours Jun 15 02:10:03 I told the guy "Do you realize what you just told me to do?" Jun 15 02:10:30 woot got it to root Jun 15 02:13:21 sargun, really? weird.. must depend on the "TTL" the carrier has set, i guess... Jun 15 02:13:37 crap-o-la Jun 15 02:13:46 ugh, still no pre in canada Jun 15 02:13:50 so lame Jun 15 02:13:54 time to cross the border Jun 15 02:14:03 just noogied my /media/internal fs... Jun 15 02:14:03 sargun, by the way. gps app is working.. i'll PM you a link to see it in action in a few minutes. gotta get my old web UI for this thing working again. Jun 15 02:14:06 who's fault is that, flash Jun 15 02:14:13 are there CDMA carriers in canada? Jun 15 02:14:18 well its certainly not mine Jun 15 02:14:19 ya Jun 15 02:14:25 flash67: "Still"? it's only been a week Jun 15 02:14:38 well has there been any announcement? Jun 15 02:14:38 im impatient Jun 15 02:14:43 yea for one carrier Jun 15 02:14:47 which im not one Jun 15 02:14:48 mikeDOTd: yes Jun 15 02:14:50 on* Jun 15 02:14:57 EvanPro_, kind of Jun 15 02:14:59 which carrier Jun 15 02:15:19 Telus... I think. Jun 15 02:15:19 Sometimes a carrier only pulls one root version of the LNP database every couple hours on their edgeg Jun 15 02:15:23 SS7 = expensive Jun 15 02:15:49 EvanPro_: gps app? can I see? Jun 15 02:15:57 true.. i looked into ss7 connectivity for my sms gateway i run... man, that stuff will bankrupt you real quick. Jun 15 02:16:53 EvanPro_, for SMS, it's a little more than plain ss7 Jun 15 02:17:06 you've gotta peer with carriers Jun 15 02:17:33 sargun, oh i know.. i've been down that road. Jun 15 02:17:44 EvanPro_, yeah..... Jun 15 02:17:45 whatever happened to JohnSmith1967? Jun 15 02:17:54 summatusmentis: give me about 5 minutes to get the serverside stuff moved over so i can show the coolness off... also i've gotta update the lat/lon of my house since i moved since i last had this working. Jun 15 02:18:40 EvanPro_: no worries, I'm just curious :-P Jun 15 02:19:22 they have wireless in canada? Jun 15 02:19:23 summatusmentis: it just takes the coords and posts to a url... then i've got a whole serverside element to it. Jun 15 02:20:06 uh, yes? Jun 15 02:20:07 oh, so it's not a native Pre app? or is that what "moved over" means? Jun 15 02:21:09 it's a native pre app.. i said i moved as in, i live in a new house now, and my app uses proximity to detect where i'm at, lol Jun 15 02:21:59 "give me about 5 minutes to get the serverside stuff moved over so i can show the coolness off" Jun 15 02:22:05 ohhhh Jun 15 02:22:20 haha Jun 15 02:22:29 forgot i said that lol... just moving some database tables off another server i have that's running a REALLY busy site right now. Jun 15 02:22:39 I'm sure I'll figure it out in five minutes when you have it ready to show off :) Jun 15 02:24:34 rwhitby thanks for that link. I am reading it now. Jun 15 02:25:07 dreadchicken: JohnSmith1967 is not allowed to tell you what happened to him Jun 15 02:26:13 ha! indeed. Jun 15 02:26:14 anyone know how to get the old "chirp" sound from the old Treo's? Jun 15 02:26:20 o.O Jun 15 02:26:27 rwhitby, you killed him Jun 15 02:26:31 I reeeaaalllyyy want the chirp back Jun 15 02:27:06 the chirp? Jun 15 02:27:10 that sounds like an STD? Jun 15 02:27:22 Sargun: he tried to recruit me into his secret society of developers. I told him to come back when he had a URL and list of members ... Jun 15 02:27:38 ha Jun 15 02:27:46 rwhitby, yeah, he tried the same to me Jun 15 02:27:50 he tried to recruit me too Jun 15 02:28:02 me as well Jun 15 02:28:04 My guess is he was only interested in the AdSense hits Jun 15 02:28:08 guy goes around Jun 15 02:28:08 The old treo's had a sound called "chirp"... used it for SMS Jun 15 02:28:26 not the clap Jun 15 02:28:40 They need to add a contact delete option for the pre thats just dumb to me Jun 15 02:28:47 There's gonna be a bazillion Pre development forums and blogs that are only in it for the ad revenue ... Jun 15 02:29:28 there was that one dude with the fake psx emulator Jun 15 02:29:39 I want to replace the Pre sms ringtone, but I don't think the old palm ringers were independant wav's Jun 15 02:29:51 said that he's having trouble with roms with analog stick control like n64 hahaha Jun 15 02:29:53 gimme some of that internet money Jun 15 02:30:27 did they change the phone email address from 5554443333@messaging.sprintpcs.com to something else? Jun 15 02:30:38 lol Jun 15 02:30:52 anyone know where I can get the default contents of /media/internals? Jun 15 02:31:07 vandi: from your backups ;-) Jun 15 02:31:09 Kaerey: Not as far as I can tell. Jun 15 02:31:37 Kaerey: If you're trying Sargun's tracking tutorial, know that I couldn't get it to work either.... Jun 15 02:31:42 they are exchanging my palm pre Jun 15 02:31:44 yay Jun 15 02:31:45 hehe Jun 15 02:31:55 ultraBlack, where were you having a problem in my tracker Jun 15 02:31:58 they said with the protection plan you can exchange up to 4 times in a year Jun 15 02:32:01 sorry, taking me a few more minutes that i thought. Jun 15 02:32:16 Sargun: It just doesn't work. I send a text message to the phone, and it never emails me anything back. Jun 15 02:32:40 ultraBlack, can you post your secret code, and your phone number Jun 15 02:32:59 also your SSN Jun 15 02:33:06 I'd rather not. Jun 15 02:33:06 summatusmentis, yeah, that would help too Jun 15 02:33:07 and full name, date of birth, and home address Jun 15 02:33:14 mother's maiden name Jun 15 02:33:16 and addresses to your hot sisters Jun 15 02:33:16 ultraBlack, why not Jun 15 02:33:22 if they are hot, of course Jun 15 02:33:22 ShinAli, yup Jun 15 02:33:28 last deposit you made in your bank account Jun 15 02:33:30 :) Jun 15 02:33:39 blood type Jun 15 02:33:41 actually to get all of those all you need is his email password Jun 15 02:33:45 heh Jun 15 02:33:48 ShinAli, their age delta with me has to be less than 3 years Jun 15 02:33:51 email is like security hole #1 Jun 15 02:34:00 hmm, seems like dropbear isn't running on start up, i checked that /opt is mounting though, well it's there and wasn't before. how can i tell what's registered to run on startup? Jun 15 02:34:30 ooo, command line positioning Jun 15 02:35:17 ultraBlack, anyways, if you want support, I'm gunna need that Jun 15 02:36:47 sargun: I'm not getting it either. Jun 15 02:37:38 Kaerey, what's your secret code Jun 15 02:37:45 oaky.. got it working.. Jun 15 02:37:54 i will PM it to who's interested... Jun 15 02:38:13 * summatusmentis aises his hand Jun 15 02:38:17 pon pon pata pon Jun 15 02:38:46 I made the edits and then rebooted Jun 15 02:39:01 that requires time and effort Jun 15 02:39:06 wow, wrong window Jun 15 02:39:06 I'm interested Jun 15 02:39:26 EvanPro_: why pm Jun 15 02:39:32 write about it Jun 15 02:39:33 Will they exchange if you have torn pre apart? Jun 15 02:39:43 summatusmentis: it's kinda stalker-enabling. Jun 15 02:39:52 oops, i mean whoiswhois on that last message Jun 15 02:40:05 lol Jun 15 02:40:52 Sargun: should "etc/cron/crontabs/root" be empty except for the like "*/5 * * * * /home/scripts/tracker/tracker.sh" Jun 15 02:41:10 oh snap Jun 15 02:41:15 i just got vnc to work on the pre Jun 15 02:41:18 Kaerey, just append it Jun 15 02:41:22 (no mouse support though) Jun 15 02:41:28 there was nothing else in the file Jun 15 02:41:52 dreadchicken: the toor thing works perfectly Jun 15 02:41:55 Kaerey, lemme double check Jun 15 02:43:13 Sargun: That file doesn't exist until we create it. Jun 15 02:43:22 crap, pre says my palm profile hasn't been verified "resend verification email" yet on the website it says verified. Jun 15 02:43:24 ultraBlack, ok, wait Jun 15 02:43:24 At least for me it didn't. Jun 15 02:44:40 JackieRipper: are we gonna call it konami rather than toor? Jun 15 02:44:54 sounds good to me Jun 15 02:44:59 start on stopped configure Jun 15 02:44:59 stop on runlevel [!2] Jun 15 02:44:59 description "crond" Jun 15 02:45:15 ultraBlack, Kaerey, use those lines on the top of /etc/event.d/crond Jun 15 02:45:22 gotcha brb Jun 15 02:45:36 ok Jun 15 02:45:45 So other than Sarguns' RHEL problems, anyone else got a reason not to add konami:*:0:0 to /etc/passwd and use that for ssh access? Jun 15 02:45:51 (with keys) Jun 15 02:46:31 konami:*:0:0:sort of root:/home/konami:/bin/sh Jun 15 02:46:52 JackieRipper: why wouldn't it have the normal root home dir? Jun 15 02:47:11 hmm, good question Jun 15 02:47:28 and s/sort of root/Secure SSH Access/ perhaps? Jun 15 02:47:48 The NES emulator guide lists a number of packages to install via apt-get. I thought the Pre just had the ipkg it came with and the ipkg-opt I put on it. where does apt-get come into the mix? am I missing something? Jun 15 02:47:57 works fine with the nornal root home Jun 15 02:48:06 examancer: it's inside a debian chroot Jun 15 02:48:07 Sargun: Should the file of the script itself be /home/scripts/tracker/track.sh? Jun 15 02:48:13 ultraBlack, why Jun 15 02:48:15 is it just me or is VI impossible to us? Jun 15 02:48:24 lol Jun 15 02:48:31 ultraBlack, er, it should be in /home/scripts/track.sh Jun 15 02:48:32 opie_: it's you ;) Jun 15 02:48:33 opie_: ipkg-opt intall nano Jun 15 02:48:40 its just you, opie_ Jun 15 02:48:41 Sargun: I'm not sure my file's named correctly/in the right place...because in /etc/cron/crontabs/root you refer to it as /home/scripts/track.sh? Jun 15 02:49:05 I put it in a different location if you are following what I posted here Jun 15 02:49:07 ok Jun 15 02:49:14 good nano it is Jun 15 02:49:47 ultraBlack, I editted the wiki Jun 15 02:49:57 ultraBlack, try tat Jun 15 02:50:01 Sargun: refreshing.. Jun 15 02:50:15 thank you rwhitby Jun 15 02:50:33 Sargun: okay, yeah. i had a feeling /home/scripts/tracker wasn't right Jun 15 02:51:04 i guess if anyone searches the log for vi alternative they'll find '/opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano' Jun 15 02:51:06 rwhitby: where do i find info on setting up the debian chroot? is that something I should know? Jun 15 02:51:17 examancer: should be on the same wiki page Jun 15 02:51:46 rwhitby: i love ipkg! Jun 15 02:52:04 examancer, http://predev.wikidot.com/debian Jun 15 02:52:27 * rwhitby bbl Jun 15 02:52:34 ultraBlack, try that Jun 15 02:52:38 ultraBlack, and reboot your pre Jun 15 02:52:45 Sargun: yeah, i'm rebooting Jun 15 02:52:47 sargun, in theory, could a script like this be written to turn on the torch when a message comes in? Jun 15 02:53:26 Kaerey, the light? Jun 15 02:53:30 yeah Jun 15 02:53:36 yeah, why would you wanna do that Jun 15 02:53:53 then you could email your self if you ever needed the flash light and then email your self to turn it off Jun 15 02:54:09 I'm looking into making the gesture LEDs light up when notifications come in Jun 15 02:54:09 I'm waiting for a flashlight app. Jun 15 02:54:13 Kaerey, uhm... sure Jun 15 02:54:15 since we haven't had a system yet to toggle it from the device Jun 15 02:54:22 thanks guys Jun 15 02:54:27 ultraBlack: take a picture of a piece of paper... Jun 15 02:54:42 that would be awesome jblebrun Jun 15 02:54:44 rwhitby: konami:*:0:0:Secure Access:/home/root:/bin/sh Jun 15 02:54:48 nebula: I mean using the flash Jun 15 02:54:51 ahhh Jun 15 02:54:55 gotcha Jun 15 02:54:57 works perfectly with keys Jun 15 02:55:03 maybe have the LED in the center ping at a certain interval when theres a new email u havent checked yet :D Jun 15 02:56:11 Sargun, Kaerey: Still not getting a thing. Jun 15 02:56:28 ultraBlack, did you restart Jun 15 02:56:32 Sargun: yep Jun 15 02:56:46 ultraBlack, do a "ps aux|grep cron" Jun 15 02:56:48 The secret code isn't supposed to be the subject line is it? Jun 15 02:56:48 does anything show up Jun 15 02:57:01 Orion_PK: one of the devs from Palm mentioned something about "non-trivial" power consumption when they were testing features such as that Jun 15 02:57:13 ultraBlack, doesn't matter Jun 15 02:57:21 really... that doesnt seem like it would use up that much energy Jun 15 02:57:24 I have ssh ass, sftp access with out optware and sudo. Would it be worth my time to start over with the new optware install? Jun 15 02:57:44 Sargun: ps aux|grep cron returned root 1021 0.0 0.3 3004 800 ? Ss 19:52 0:00 /usr/sbin/crond -f Jun 15 02:57:49 if it flashed for like 1/2 second every 4 seconds Jun 15 02:57:51 access* Jun 15 02:58:18 ultraBlack, run these commands in succession Jun 15 02:58:19 cmd='SELECT messageText FROM com_palm_pim_FolderEntry WHERE timeStamp > (strftime("%s000", "now")-600000);' Jun 15 02:58:25 echo $cmd|sqlite3 -init /tmp/trackersql /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 Jun 15 02:58:34 ultraBlack, do you see your secret code somewhere in there Jun 15 02:58:43 the instructions for "Activating Debian Rootfs" in the debian install guide... I am mounting the custom debian image while ssh'ed into the device, right? Jun 15 02:58:46 I have a feeling that if I don't start over I will miss out on all of your new work Jun 15 02:58:51 orion_pk, I'm guessing its not the LED that would be the highest yield of power consumption, it'd be the service running in the background pinging it Jun 15 02:59:03 examancer, sure Jun 15 02:59:16 Sargun: oh boy...umm...somewhere in that big file. hold on Jun 15 02:59:21 sargun, no no secret code Jun 15 02:59:38 not in the return from "ps aux|grep cron Jun 15 02:59:43 ultraBlack, did you email yourself the secret code less than 10 minutes ago? Jun 15 02:59:52 how do you guys keep your Pre's awake? music? Jun 15 02:59:53 embedded cpu's are pretty good at sleeping **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 15 02:59:57 2009