**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 22 02:59:57 2009 Jun 22 02:59:57 wifi Jun 22 03:00:20 showergel: link up with eno on testing those modules Jun 22 03:00:22 evdo keeps powerd alive too Jun 22 03:00:25 has anyone figured out sftp access to / ? Jun 22 03:00:37 altho it gives annoying messages Jun 22 03:01:02 mogren: only with openssh Jun 22 03:01:15 rwhitby: thanks ;) Jun 22 03:01:40 you mean like cli and not in a drag and drop gui right? Jun 22 03:01:53 I've got openssh set up on my Pre, but SFTP doesn't seem to be activated by default...? Jun 22 03:02:28 ipkg-opt install openssh-sftp-server Jun 22 03:03:08 aha; thank you, rwhitby Jun 22 03:03:10 haha, an attack to Mac here: Sorry, User Console is not currently supported on Mac browsers. (from palmws.com) Jun 22 03:03:39 SFTP is a special module that belongs to OpenSSH. Jun 22 03:04:00 you may be able to get sftp to work with dropbear running, but openssh installed Jun 22 03:04:08 I seem to be missing something very important in the webkit sources... the root Makefile has only one line: "include ../Makefile.shared" ... but there is no "../Makefile.shared" Jun 22 03:04:22 openssh-sftp-server should work fine with dropbear instead of openssh too Jun 22 03:04:34 twobitsprite: a MYSTERY! Jun 22 03:04:46 here is a note for all wanting more micro-usb cables for their Pre: none of the non-palm cables fit into the touchstone. Jun 22 03:04:54 * sugardave fires up The Mystery Machine. Jun 22 03:05:17 i am forced to use my palm cable for the touchstone, however all other cables work great to include the "motorola" charger. Jun 22 03:05:51 monoprice cables is where i found most of my stuff, although i picked up other cables on ebay to verify they also do not work with the touchstone. Jun 22 03:06:00 cant get rooted through vbox Jun 22 03:06:02 jusy fyi. Jun 22 03:06:03 The samsung highnote charger works directly with the pre. Jun 22 03:06:15 * twobitsprite waits for the results from The Mystery Machine Jun 22 03:06:39 haha, I was making a joke about the old cartoon show, sorry! :P Jun 22 03:06:43 im not familiar with that charger. unfortunately, the instinct has some stupid samsung-only cable :-/ Jun 22 03:06:59 sugardave: ahh :) ... I thought you we just being a smartass... :P Jun 22 03:07:00 * tictac goes back to his ie written prep Jun 22 03:07:11 I was trying to think of a smartassed comeback Jun 22 03:07:25 Ive been charging my pre using the highnotes Jun 22 03:07:30 haha Jun 22 03:07:33 any suggestion it wont find the port and all firwalls are down Jun 22 03:08:03 rwhitby: good call that's the only subsystem needed Jun 22 03:08:12 Anyway to restore my delted email accounts? The pre backups eveyday so Jun 22 03:08:19 Robi-: that's how we designed it ;-) Jun 22 03:08:36 hmm...my default scaling_max_freq was already 600000 -- is this a feature of 1.0.3? Jun 22 03:08:39 schweet Jun 22 03:09:00 although that doesn't make sense since ondemand wasn't enabled Jun 22 03:09:00 Yeah i noticed my def was that too Jun 22 03:09:19 it can be set w/o being in use Jun 22 03:09:42 the touchstone worked great in my car. I used the sprint charger, had to do some serious shaving on the usb plug to get it into the touch stone, though. pretty much the only place for me to mount the touch stone was the cheap vinyl center console. worked great, though, even though the vinyl is textured. Jun 22 03:10:14 Robi-: yeah, I was wondering if they thought about it and then decided against it before release Jun 22 03:10:27 PullingJ: what did you use to shave the sprint charger plug? Jun 22 03:10:43 xcomp: the knife on my leatherman Jun 22 03:10:48 I need to do that for mine...the touchstone sits nicely in front of the gearstick Jun 22 03:10:58 i had to take a large amount off the top of the plug Jun 22 03:10:59 ok, howdo i restore backed up files onto my pre from palm profile? Jun 22 03:11:09 Well..... huh. At least I now have it saying UNDEFINED instead of just setting there. Jun 22 03:11:20 xcomp: it seems all who try it see undesired side-effects, so the onedemand scaling parameters need some tweaking to make everything smooth before being default Jun 22 03:11:30 pretty much 3/4 of the way back, and maybe 1/16" deep at torwards the tip Jun 22 03:11:38 it's nice being able to talk handsfree without using bluetooth Jun 22 03:11:57 and have your phone charge :) Jun 22 03:12:00 i was amazed how well the touchstone stuck to the vinyl Jun 22 03:12:10 magnets Jun 22 03:12:14 and it was able to charge about as fast as direct connect Jun 22 03:12:42 I dont see the point in it though, honestly. Jun 22 03:12:52 really as long as it can keep up is all that really matters Jun 22 03:13:01 imop45, what point? Jun 22 03:13:05 It saves you an additional.. 3 seconds? Jun 22 03:13:08 lets you ssh in too! :> Jun 22 03:13:17 THe point of the touchstone Jun 22 03:13:37 imop45, you'll see the point if you ever get one. Jun 22 03:14:17 the price is a bit pointless Jun 22 03:14:19 it is just nice. just drop the phone on it and you're charging, and in the car, it holds the phone in place. Jun 22 03:14:38 check amazon, they are having some good deals on the touchstone stuff, shipping in 1-4 weeks, though Jun 22 03:14:55 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-accessories/187815-palm-touchstone-products-amazon-kit-50-charger-30-cover-18-a.html Jun 22 03:15:12 $30 ? Jun 22 03:15:14 even without charging, the touchstone is already a godsend for my car Jun 22 03:15:19 They had these powerpad things, where you could put all kinds of things on to charge. But you had to buy adapters to plug into your phone (each adap costed $34) Jun 22 03:15:28 no more fumbling around to handle phone calls or gps Jun 22 03:15:30 I'm definately buying another touchstone for the car. and prbly one for the office Jun 22 03:15:48 the $30 at amazon is just the touchstone, no back or cables included Jun 22 03:16:03 Just get a magnet. $4, and put it under the cover. I did that with my old phone. Jun 22 03:16:23 you need the back for the induction coil Jun 22 03:16:24 the cable and back is another $40 :) Jun 22 03:16:25 imop45: but your magnet doesn't charge. :) Jun 22 03:16:26 not just the magnets Jun 22 03:16:41 Did anyone ever get a working VNC *server* on the Pre yet? Jun 22 03:16:51 heh so $18 and $30 is still less than the $50 kit Jun 22 03:17:11 imop45, I think I saw a deal for the Touchstone with back for about $50-$55 Jun 22 03:17:15 the touchstone held the phone admirably in the car. I did some pretty violent aceleration and braking while out today. isn't the kit $70ish msrp at sprint stores Jun 22 03:17:27 yeah $70 Jun 22 03:17:46 i paid for mine with a couple of best buy gift cards I've been keeping around for over a year Jun 22 03:17:57 Idk, i'd never ever pay $35 for a charger. You know how much it costs to make one of those? $0.60 Jun 22 03:17:59 I can't believe that guy with the bmw replaced his cupholder functionality for charging his phone Jun 22 03:18:01 the thing works well enough that I'm prbly buying two more touchstones, (one with powerplug and cable) Jun 22 03:18:06 unfortunately drink holder > phone charger in my book Jun 22 03:18:19 lol Jun 22 03:18:32 psykoz, just replace the cup holder with one of those plastic things that walmart sells that you hang in the window gap Jun 22 03:19:11 or upgrade :) Jun 22 03:19:19 Seriously, stuff is cheap. I saw the breakdown of the iphone and pre, it costing $170 a piece to make. i dont believe it. THings are sooo cheap to make nowadays Jun 22 03:19:36 the "nanotubes" sticky base is amazing, too. sticks to painted dry wall, sticks to tables, sticks to textured vinyl in the car... Jun 22 03:20:00 lots of geckos gave up their feet for that ... Jun 22 03:20:03 imop45, and rumor has it that the touchstone costs palm $5 to make. I'll still by more Jun 22 03:20:04 a gecko genocide Jun 22 03:20:07 err buy Jun 22 03:20:22 and give time for seido and the rest to make third party docks Jun 22 03:20:37 the palm touchstone works great, though. and easily is worth $30 Jun 22 03:20:54 $5? i dont think so, cheaper than that Jun 22 03:21:27 seriously i had it stuck to a horizontal textured vinyl surface and the car, it held the phone on many 70-120mph runs, and a couple 100-60mph braking sessions Jun 22 03:22:01 topgear test eh? Jun 22 03:22:15 Go to best buy and ask them how much best buy pays for their stuff. if youre a BB employee you pay what best buy does for things, +9%. Jun 22 03:22:26 while testing it, wiggling the touchstone was pulling the vinyl covering up as i wiggled it so i was satisfied. Jun 22 03:22:29 Love topgear.. MM, fine british hosting Jun 22 03:22:46 imop45, something like that. 450hp diesel truck Jun 22 03:22:50 http://blogs.bnet.com/businesstips/?p=2226 gps mount Jun 22 03:22:51 what i hate about the touchstone is that it uses a PIC microcontroller ... http://s1.guide-images.ifixit.com/igi/WSAkIYKUHBdyT5fA :( Jun 22 03:23:02 the STIG stunt was good this last time Jun 22 03:23:36 wow, not all that much of a coil. what's the problem with the pic? Jun 22 03:23:50 What stig stunt? Well, american shows get annoying after a while, bad camera angles, bad hosting. Jun 22 03:24:12 pullingj, the pic micro used to control it Jun 22 03:24:26 all the american hosts do is give a fake smile, say a prewritten crappy joke, and go on Jun 22 03:24:46 bpadalino, what's wrong with it? it charges my phone fine. seems to work just as well as direct connect Jun 22 03:25:04 pullingj, nothing - i love the function of the touchstone .. i jut hate pic micros Jun 22 03:25:13 i think they're too hobbyist and not very professional Jun 22 03:25:17 ah Jun 22 03:25:26 it's doing the job at least Jun 22 03:25:32 elitist! Jun 22 03:25:40 i am! Jun 22 03:25:40 Well, prob cheap Jun 22 03:25:41 :( Jun 22 03:25:46 I have a question concerning the mojo programming example provided in the wiki Jun 22 03:25:56 msp430 is just as cheap .. Jun 22 03:26:09 but it's just my opinion Jun 22 03:26:23 Is there any mojo example where a button actually performs an action? or is the only example out there now the 'hello world' button with no action example? Jun 22 03:26:27 eh, maybe partnership? Jun 22 03:26:44 bpadalino: probably a corp decision ;[ Jun 22 03:26:54 http://blogs.bnet.com/businesstips/?p=2226 oh build your own gps mount Jun 22 03:27:08 yeah, wondering why they went with PIC when they could've just bought MSP430 from TI Jun 22 03:27:38 xcomp, right - they're buying the OMAPs.. you would think TI would throw in an MSP430 for free! Jun 22 03:27:39 diff group designed the charging? Jun 22 03:27:44 * xcomp works in the same TI business unit that makes MSP430 Jun 22 03:27:49 oh neat Jun 22 03:27:52 i <3 the msp430 Jun 22 03:28:10 i <3 bpadalino! Jun 22 03:28:10 *pretends to undersatnd Jun 22 03:28:17 hehe Jun 22 03:28:21 so much heart Jun 22 03:28:25 bpadalino: the org that makes omap isn't the same as the one that makes msp430 though Jun 22 03:28:35 then lets get a bunch of MSPs and make another touchstone Jun 22 03:28:38 xcomp but the sales people are all the same - right ? Jun 22 03:28:39 i wonder if that had something to do with why msp430 wasn't marketed to palm Jun 22 03:28:47 bpadalino: not necessarily Jun 22 03:28:51 ah Jun 22 03:28:53 we have our own sales people Jun 22 03:29:00 bpadalino, might you know of a mojo example out there where a button actually performs an action? Jun 22 03:29:10 xcomp, do you know anyone in the high speed adc/dac group ? Jun 22 03:29:15 prenoob, i don't :( Jun 22 03:29:16 i am sorry Jun 22 03:29:18 it's something they're trying to do better at -- providing solutions to customers that cross SBU lines Jun 22 03:29:18 pullingj, that's so redneck ;) Jun 22 03:29:27 pullingj, I'd never put that crap hanging from my window in my car ;) Jun 22 03:29:43 not for a cell phone* Jun 22 03:29:50 bpadalino, thanks anyway... i shall continue my search Jun 22 03:29:55 psykoz, haha was the point Jun 22 03:30:04 bpadalino: no ... I work in auto mcu so I don't really know anyone outside of mcu Jun 22 03:30:14 get enough, and you can hang a six pack from the window rest, though Jun 22 03:30:18 have they announced anything closer to a date for the public release of the sdk besides 'coming soon'? Jun 22 03:30:32 PreNoob: looks at how other existing apps do it Jun 22 03:30:51 haha, hear that guy who called the police b/c someone stole his crack Jun 22 03:31:15 Why are they waiting to release MOJO? Jun 22 03:31:18 xcomp, OH! auto MCU Jun 22 03:31:21 then i have a question for you Jun 22 03:31:37 xcomp, dual ARM cores with FPU's and CAN ... Jun 22 03:31:43 let me take this to msg Jun 22 03:32:00 mmm CAN Jun 22 03:32:19 the only way the corvette c5 and later function Jun 22 03:32:28 Robi-, are there open source apps on the wiki? I didn't see any actual applications... or are you talking about the stock apps? I didn't know those were open source? Jun 22 03:33:13 PreNoob: no, yes. they're not. you can still look. Jun 22 03:34:09 Robi-, oh yeah, my bad... i haven't rooted my pre yet, but i'm getting around to it eventually. Thanks. Jun 22 03:34:25 ok.... pdf viewer calls this.controller.serviceRequest('palm://com.palm.applicationManager', { Jun 22 03:34:27 method: 'open', Jun 22 03:34:27 PreNoob: if you have 5 min and run xp, you'll be done. Jun 22 03:34:59 hmmmm Jun 22 03:35:03 well, I can try that. Jun 22 03:35:05 Robi-, and there are no performance hindering drawbacks to rooting correct? Jun 22 03:35:11 Rick__: tada.. Jun 22 03:35:20 PreNoob: correct Jun 22 03:35:21 rooting does not effect the operation of the phone at all Jun 22 03:35:46 except that mine no longer pluses palm when it starts up.... ::: it cross fades between two images I like more... Jun 22 03:35:54 and I have more pages in launcher.... Jun 22 03:36:05 and I have my own app that doen't work yet on the darned hting. Jun 22 03:36:11 :-) Jun 22 03:36:15 it's been fun Jun 22 03:36:25 can anyone help me root?? havin issues Jun 22 03:36:29 Rick__, is that the only app you've tried to develop? Jun 22 03:36:43 jban whats up? Jun 22 03:36:56 I'm just interested to see if anyone has created anything simple with some simple actions in a homebrew app Jun 22 03:37:15 ok running windows 7 with vbox Jun 22 03:37:15 uh.... I've had 20 or thirty revs of this on my phone. Jun 22 03:37:39 I have a plain text ebook reader that works FINE as loong as I'm getting text from a web site, but I'm trying to read the files from local storage. Jun 22 03:37:56 And it's _really annoying_ that I'm having trouble getting content out of the local file system. Jun 22 03:38:06 buttons are dead simple. Jun 22 03:38:12 * Robi- nods Jun 22 03:38:19 Rick__: That's cool! is there an emulator out, or do you have to push it every time you want to test? Jun 22 03:38:23 try using the palm calls Jun 22 03:38:26 Rick_ How did you change the start up image? Jun 22 03:38:35 no emulator without sdk Jun 22 03:38:51 _what_ palm calls is the issue Robi. Jun 22 03:39:03 You have a suggestion about how to format that, I would appriciate it. Jun 22 03:39:12 changing the startup image is dead simple. Jun 22 03:39:29 imop45 i run xp in vbox but i keep gettin errors leading 2 firewalls Jun 22 03:40:06 Hmm, dont think i can help you. I ran putty in windows vista Jun 22 03:40:13 there are two files palm.logo.png and palm-logo-bright.png on startup the pre cross fades them. They should be 200px square. Jun 22 03:40:25 in /usr/palm/sysmgr/images/ Jun 22 03:40:28 Hey, wth is the disk.tga image? Jun 22 03:40:38 Rick__: have you heard anything on the public release of the SDK besides 'coming soon'? Jun 22 03:40:46 should i try putty in windows7??? Jun 22 03:41:11 what's on the palm web site. "Expanding membership to several thousand developers in the next few weeks from several hundred. Public release by the end of the summer. " Jun 22 03:41:23 Hmm, yes, but run the program as windows xp compitibilty Jun 22 03:41:54 Rick__: you have the open call right? so try filling in some parameters in the curlys Jun 22 03:42:09 oh wow, I really don't like the palm-logo-bright picture Jun 22 03:42:15 do i still need 2 turn off firewalls and what exactly is putty?? Jun 22 03:42:19 didn't occur to me I could change it Jun 22 03:42:30 Rick__: Thanks! I didn't catch that... did they say whether or not they are going to attempt to restrict users from putting their own apps on the phone without going through the app catalog? Jun 22 03:42:50 Rick__: of write a popup for the app that tells you the format of whats being passed to that call Jun 22 03:43:01 hey, can someone tell me how i can restart my pre instead of turning it off and back on? via ssh or otherwise? Jun 22 03:43:14 onexistence: reboot Jun 22 03:43:18 orange + sym + r ? Jun 22 03:43:38 wont the luna rescan do for most changes? Jun 22 03:43:39 i tried reboot and it can't find that command. am i missing something really simple? Jun 22 03:43:53 i'll try the orange + sym + r suggestion. thx Jun 22 03:44:09 if your in via ssh, as root you can run: shutdown -rf now Jun 22 03:44:26 noob, go read the blog off of developer.palm.com for yourself Jun 22 03:44:57 oh, heh, guess i'm used to the alias 'reboot' which probably does exactly that (shutdown -rf now) Jun 22 03:44:59 hold power button and cycle mute switch 3 or 4 times. Jun 22 03:45:01 thx Jun 22 03:45:01 pkill LunaSysMgr Jun 22 03:45:44 I'd avoid the -f. shutdown -r now works fine. and wouldn't you want fsck to run if needed? Jun 22 03:45:53 will pkill LunaSysMgr work for applying changes? i'm assuming it's quicker than a full reboot? Jun 22 03:46:05 I think 'reboot' worked for me the other night? Jun 22 03:46:06 it works for applying changes to luna Jun 22 03:46:14 to use reboot (and other power commands) in SSH with the pre, do "sudo su -", then reboot (so the right directories are PATH'd) Jun 22 03:46:16 why kill Jun 22 03:46:18 it's not enough if you're needing to reboot linux Jun 22 03:46:20 ok cool. that's probably all i need then Jun 22 03:46:37 BVecause I can never remember the syntax for the rescan Jun 22 03:47:17 "/sbin/reboot" if needed (that dir is where the other power binaries are too) Jun 22 03:47:18 It's MUCH faster than booting the phone Jun 22 03:47:36 LunaSysMgr restarts by itself Jun 22 03:47:48 how am i suppose 2 root through putty?? Jun 22 03:47:57 it would be nice if that cmd could be called via the interface... like, with a launcher icon... Jun 22 03:48:03 kill -1? Jun 22 03:48:06 or maybe a menu option Jun 22 03:48:21 Now to see how high I can get uptime. currently at 1.5 days on the pre. I just need to avoid killing the battery at work. I spend a lot of time deep inside buildings with poor signal. Jun 22 03:48:37 Rick__: make an alias ? Jun 22 03:48:57 why the touchstone, though? I don't get what's so hard about plugging in a cable, it's like 5 more seconds Jun 22 03:49:19 5 more seconds everytime you plug or unplug. Jun 22 03:49:32 destinal, cool factor, plus easy speakerphone in the car Jun 22 03:49:37 I like the touchstone but I'd like it more if it wouldn't keep the screen on Jun 22 03:49:47 and the USB door on the pre is hella annoying Jun 22 03:49:50 does it really keep the screen on? Jun 22 03:49:56 that's bs Jun 22 03:49:57 ShinAli, no doubt Jun 22 03:50:04 you have to do some wiggle waggle magic shit to make it flush with the pre's body Jun 22 03:50:06 ShinAli agreed Jun 22 03:50:09 ok, well i applied to do the wiki Jun 22 03:50:12 yeah, it turns down the backlight and shows a different display with a drag-to-unlick thing and the time Jun 22 03:50:27 keeps the phone in place, too Jun 22 03:50:41 That's awful. I keep my phone next to me at night when I'm on call. I can't have it bright. Jun 22 03:50:57 bouquet: yeah I've filed a bug for it :D Jun 22 03:51:13 there should be a user-controllable setting, yeah Jun 22 03:51:19 that's what I said Jun 22 03:51:35 I guess really I filed a "Feedback & Feature Request" Jun 22 03:51:37 Anyone know if there are alternate IMAP email clients in development? Jun 22 03:51:39 destinal: i made the same arguement Jun 22 03:51:42 ok, so I may hack a touchstone for my car, if it also holds it in place Jun 22 03:52:01 yeah I've been thinking of trying to make one that folds into my ashtray slot Jun 22 03:52:01 or an XMPP add-on for the IM client? Jun 22 03:52:16 destinal, see my earlier comments about violent acceleration and braking in a 450hp truck. worked great! Jun 22 03:52:22 we CRUD PUPPIES Jun 22 03:52:26 arrrgh Jun 22 03:52:28 I said to buy some $4 flat magnets to hold your Pre in your car Jun 22 03:52:29 blech Jun 22 03:52:32 frug Jun 22 03:52:48 imop45: that would be okay but I want to charge it too Jun 22 03:52:53 the only time it moved was when i bumped it. If i'm going to buy something, then might as well pay a little more and charge it too Jun 22 03:53:01 imop45: yeah, but $30 for something you do once isn't that bad. Jun 22 03:53:02 THen plug it in. Take 3 secs Jun 22 03:53:25 I don't want to mess with the plug in m ycar Jun 22 03:53:28 50 is way too much tho Jun 22 03:53:36 Well, the $30 doesnt include the backplate or the cords Jun 22 03:53:38 right $30 can be made up by skipping starbucks and mcdonalds a couple time Jun 22 03:53:49 backplate? Jun 22 03:54:01 already have a car charge, already have backplate from when the sprint store raped me for $70 for the kit Jun 22 03:54:08 in order to use a call to the service manager for com.palm.application Manager you have to REGISTER YOUR APPLICATION for a mime type in command.resource.handlers.json Jun 22 03:54:10 to use the touchstone you have to replace the battery door with on with an induction coil on it Jun 22 03:54:18 Thank you! $50 for something that costs $1.19 to make, ship, label, and market Jun 22 03:54:22 which also happens to be a nice matte thing Jun 22 03:54:31 the backplate is $18 at amazon. the replacement door is great, too nice matte finish Jun 22 03:54:50 i like the matte back of the touchstone cover Jun 22 03:54:51 again, if hacking into a car, maybe don't need backplate Jun 22 03:54:52 yeah, the pre's ass is too slippier Jun 22 03:55:11 that's an interesting way to put it :P Jun 22 03:55:13 unless the backplate _is_ the replacement door? Jun 22 03:55:16 imop45, you might not be willing to pay it, but i am, as are a LOT of other consumers. It solves the "car problem" for me. Jun 22 03:55:17 i might just get the touchstone backplate so its not as slippery with greasy hands Jun 22 03:55:26 is the USB cable is standard compliant? I need another and I don't see a reason to buy it from Palm. Jun 22 03:55:31 the backplate is the replacement door Jun 22 03:55:32 Ok, that's it for tonight. Now officially frustrated and glarg. Jun 22 03:55:32 ah Jun 22 03:55:39 I have an idealistic vision of the future where lots of electronics use the same wireless charging interface Jun 22 03:55:56 aubilenon, I think that's the idea behind touchstone Jun 22 03:55:57 I will edit command.resource.handlers.json tommorow, and then try the stupid open file command again. Jun 22 03:55:59 Bouquet: yeah, I guess you can just get any microusb cable Jun 22 03:56:04 eventually other products will use it Jun 22 03:56:04 yeah why cant there just be a standard connection Jun 22 03:56:05 I think its cool and awesome, but im a mega cheapskate. I hate the fact i have to pay 3000% more than the cost of it Jun 22 03:56:19 imop45: accessories are money makers .. Jun 22 03:56:20 i agree imop45 Jun 22 03:56:24 PullingJ: realistically I think everyone will put their magnets in different places just to be assholes Jun 22 03:56:28 or something Jun 22 03:56:33 Does anyone kno of any other firewalls that maybe running in background besides windows defender Jun 22 03:56:39 note by the way, that this implies that if you want to interact with the local file system in your app, you will need to include registration stuff in your post-install script. Jun 22 03:56:51 Noabody: usb micro is standard Jun 22 03:56:51 Noabody: usb micro is standait's jsut rare Jun 22 03:56:51 yeah, if I have to spend $50, I may just get some strong magnets Jun 22 03:56:55 Windows defender isn't a firewall. The windows firewall is seperate Jun 22 03:57:03 you need a beefy power source to run the touchstone though. usb ports don't provide enough juice. Jun 22 03:57:05 destinal: that'll save me a bucket of cash. I have those things all over the place. Jun 22 03:57:20 yeah but not everyone uses micro usb for charging the phones is what i mean Jun 22 03:57:22 Bouquet: not mini usb mind, it's *micro* you need Jun 22 03:57:22 Really?? Jun 22 03:57:26 Rick__: note that down in the wiki :P Jun 22 03:57:40 Yes, they are. Like i said, talk to a cool best buy employee and they will tell you what best buy pays for their stuff Jun 22 03:57:40 my g1 is mini so I had a bunch of those, but now we have a new standard :( Jun 22 03:57:40 destinal, you still need the touchstone back that has the metal in it for the magnets to attract Jun 22 03:57:41 yeah everyone using the same plug would be good too Jun 22 03:57:45 yeah Jun 22 03:57:57 on the hello world page, or do you have naother suggestion Jun 22 03:57:59 ok thanks Jun 22 03:58:04 destinal-samsung highnote uses the same as the pre Jun 22 03:58:13 I don't think mini usb is supposed to do usb on the go, is it? Jun 22 03:58:25 Rick__: that's fine. Jun 22 03:58:27 nfi Jun 22 03:58:32 though I haven't heard of anyone getting that to work with the pre either so: meh Jun 22 03:59:14 anyone know a reason why WebShell wouldn't work remotely (wifi enabled)? Jun 22 03:59:17 I used magnets on my old phone. Mounted to the back inside cover on the centro, and to my car and my bench at my shop..and my wall next to my bed Jun 22 03:59:24 aubilenon: if we have a chipset that can do usb on the go, we can control it in software as well as hardware Jun 22 03:59:44 aubilenon: no need for special cables Jun 22 03:59:47 if i get the exact error mess. u think u may be able 2 help Jun 22 04:00:18 aubilenon: I don't think much experimentation has yet happened with host mode / otg modes Jun 22 04:00:21 destinal: well I think you're not supposed to put the A end of USB on a mini port Jun 22 04:00:35 you being a device designer in this context Jun 22 04:00:45 zsazs tried it a little and didn't have any luck Jun 22 04:00:47 and ok the bathroom wall to play music...and i think thats it. Got a pack of 15 quarter size neodymeon magnets Jun 22 04:01:01 my long term hacking goal is to program AVR microcontrollers from my pre :D Jun 22 04:01:06 aubilenon: with the G1 there is an OTG chipset but no drivers Jun 22 04:01:11 aubilenon: we may have the same thing here Jun 22 04:01:33 wait, on the wiki it says: You can not apply. Jun 22 04:01:33 It seems you have already applied for membership. Jun 22 04:01:41 after all the drivers are going to do what they designed it to do, in this case client Jun 22 04:01:49 destinal: ah, perhaps Jun 22 04:02:21 regardless, the need for a power injector limits the usefulness Jun 22 04:02:25 even if there is a host mode Jun 22 04:03:02 it makes it not very portable Jun 22 04:03:11 done... at the bottom of the page Jun 22 04:03:12 portable in the carry-around sense? Jun 22 04:03:13 Want to Thank all the GEEKS for dedicating sleepless nights to little black pebble called Palm Pre..and making it iFone ass kicker =) Jun 22 04:03:35 coo Jun 22 04:03:36 aubilenon: yeah, I mean, it's a phone, right? if you want a desktop you can get one cheaper :) Jun 22 04:03:52 good obseration TheOb Jun 22 04:04:48 rooting for the underdog! can't wait for Sprint store to call me tell me they got one for me =) Jun 22 04:04:52 Mm.. anyone want to invite me to the wiki? Jun 22 04:05:08 What cha wanna work on impo? Jun 22 04:05:13 TheObserver: you may get lucky, they told me 1 wk expected and had it in a day Jun 22 04:05:37 TheObserver: I'd call a few different stores if you have multiple nearby, they all have their own lists Jun 22 04:05:40 Well i asked if someone could put an idea up about mulitple card rows and they said just join Jun 22 04:05:40 have they been shipping a lot more out since initially selling out? Jun 22 04:05:53 sweet Jun 22 04:06:16 all you want is to put a request for multiple card rows in the small card view into the tweaks page? Jun 22 04:06:28 I am on the waiting list in both BestBuy and the Sprint Store Jun 22 04:06:30 Yeap pretty much.. Jun 22 04:06:39 anyone working on imitating google lattitudes with a shell script? the tracking app prbly has the guts needed to get position. Jun 22 04:07:11 Here it goes ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10 Jun 22 04:07:25 ok. Done. Jun 22 04:08:54 Yay thanks. Maybe they just got tired of my asking to add things :) Jun 22 04:09:51 pullingj, somebody pasted commands in here the other night to grab location info Jun 22 04:09:51 right above that return int(portnum) Jun 22 04:10:00 Rick_ do you think thats possible> Jun 22 04:10:09 I think it's on the wiki now, too Jun 22 04:11:09 jbann, which os ? Jun 22 04:11:16 i get that error with and with out pre being plugged in Jun 22 04:11:57 windows 7 with sun virtualBox running xp Jun 22 04:12:12 ah .. hrm Jun 22 04:12:18 is novacomd.exe running ? Jun 22 04:12:26 yes Jun 22 04:12:46 does the Palm Novacom device show up in device manager ? Jun 22 04:12:58 yes Jun 22 04:13:50 interesting Jun 22 04:14:00 port 6968 should be opened up if novacomd found your device Jun 22 04:14:41 yea i dont get it Jun 22 04:14:50 is that port open at all ? Jun 22 04:14:56 is your phone in dev mode ? Jun 22 04:15:37 yea its in dev mode, but i get that error with not plug in also Jun 22 04:16:16 right - novacomd opens a port on 6968 when it finds the pre connected and novacomd running on the pre .. Jun 22 04:16:23 if not, the port is closed Jun 22 04:16:37 ok let recheck Jun 22 04:18:58 hmm, made a discovery. You dont have to have dev mode on with ajax Jun 22 04:19:35 imop, I'm quite sure it's possible. Jun 22 04:20:00 im in it now editing the amazon store Jun 22 04:22:27 how can i check if the port is open Jun 22 04:27:08 jbann, netstat .. not sure if thats in windows ? Jun 22 04:27:52 it is in some windows Jun 22 04:28:02 2000 and XP for sure Jun 22 04:28:14 well.... I don't see it on quick look around imop. I don't know what js is responsible for the card-view Jun 22 04:28:21 it isn't flipcard I don't think... Jun 22 04:28:44 hmm, getting an error with the amazon hack: cannot stat 'download-manager.js':no such file or directory Jun 22 04:28:52 that' it. Dislocating yawn means go to bed Jun 22 04:29:15 sorry got disconnected bpada Jun 22 04:29:38 how do i check if port is open Jun 22 04:29:53 ill log into my linux ubuntu and see if i can find it in the webos resources Jun 22 04:29:55 netstat ? Jun 22 04:32:37 `why am i gettting this error?? Jun 22 04:32:49 cannot stat 'download-manager.js':no such file or directory Jun 22 04:33:30 ok now im gettin error 10061 Jun 22 04:34:17 say, how do you hide/remove the sprint portal app Jun 22 04:36:17 http://predev.wikidot.com/hide-delete-the-nascar-app just apply it to whatever app Jun 22 04:36:28 there's no appinfo.json file for that app Jun 22 04:36:32 I tried making one but it didn't work Jun 22 04:37:20 the sprint portal app opens in the browser Jun 22 04:37:26 yeah Jun 22 04:38:07 hmm.. Delete all file for it>? Jun 22 04:38:17 any one know if nano or pico can be installed on the pre? Jun 22 04:38:18 could work Jun 22 04:38:20 yes Jun 22 04:38:22 i HATE vi Jun 22 04:38:28 What would happen if you did that? Jun 22 04:38:30 ipkg-opt install nano Jun 22 04:38:35 ok Jun 22 04:38:40 imop45, I don't know, but I' Jun 22 04:38:46 i havent rooted mine yet but was just asking Jun 22 04:38:50 I'll move the files first I think :) Jun 22 04:38:50 Try it and see ltm Jun 22 04:39:00 Noahbody, there's also vim if you'd prefer that Jun 22 04:39:05 yeah, cp them to .sav Jun 22 04:39:06 I don't think emacs is available in optware Jun 22 04:39:09 never used vim Jun 22 04:39:11 i had to use nano myself Jun 22 04:39:15 since i'm a pico boy from way back Jun 22 04:39:21 me too Jun 22 04:39:22 too dumb to use vi :) Jun 22 04:39:24 Vi/vim is really powerful, it just has a high learning curve Jun 22 04:39:27 most of the time nano is fine Jun 22 04:39:28 same here lol Jun 22 04:39:44 "let's see... colon... something... crap. " Jun 22 04:39:51 problem with vi, vim and emacs is that they are text editors and ONLY text editors Jun 22 04:39:56 confusing Jun 22 04:40:03 I mean, that's what they're for, but for programming, hahaha, yeah right Jun 22 04:40:04 emon - nah , emacs is an operating system Jun 22 04:40:14 I know it's a fucking joke Jun 22 04:40:24 you're saying emacs isn't for programming ? Jun 22 04:40:29 I'm saying it sucks at it Jun 22 04:40:47 interesting .. emacs is real powerful when it comes to programming Jun 22 04:40:57 vi has been a better C ide than anything I've used so far Jun 22 04:41:06 yeah, for lisp maybe Jun 22 04:41:17 compared to features in modern IDEs, vi and emacs dont have shit Jun 22 04:41:35 but they have superior text editing. someone makes a vi editor plugin for visual studio, but its not free Jun 22 04:41:51 i am shocked to read that Jun 22 04:42:20 oh? Jun 22 04:42:42 Emon: emacs22 is available in optware Jun 22 04:42:52 oh ok Jun 22 04:42:55 my mistake Jun 22 04:43:10 absolutely - vim and emacs are pretty feature rich for debuggers and programming in all languages .. Jun 22 04:43:27 emon did you delete them? Jun 22 04:43:35 no I' Jun 22 04:43:40 I'm not going to bother tonight Jun 22 04:43:57 aw i wanted to know! Jun 22 04:43:57 bpadalino, vim supports automated refactoring, code profiling and source control? Jun 22 04:43:59 thought so Jun 22 04:44:50 of course automated refactoring in C/C++ is a joke anyway Jun 22 04:45:04 Its all a joke. all of it Jun 22 04:45:08 i think we're fighting some religious wars here ? Jun 22 04:45:12 :P Jun 22 04:45:30 i mean - just because you may not know how to use and harness the power doesn't make it disappear Jun 22 04:45:42 hmm, you can login to the pre while its still booting Jun 22 04:45:46 i don't like emacs personally .. but i can't dismiss it Jun 22 04:45:47 sorry i was just asking if nano or pico could be installed lol Jun 22 04:45:48 who says I don't know how to use them? I don't prefer to Jun 22 04:45:55 they are powerful, at some things Jun 22 04:45:58 and utterly fail at others Jun 22 04:46:01 noah-you started WW3 Jun 22 04:46:08 SORRY Jun 22 04:46:09 which is what bothers me about ides, because they fail at text editing Jun 22 04:46:12 where vim is good Jun 22 04:46:24 too much mouse control Jun 22 04:46:43 uh Jun 22 04:46:50 so the pre loads wifi b4 if even shows the GUI... Jun 22 04:46:51 * bpadalino gets even more confused Jun 22 04:46:53 vim has refactoring and source control Jun 22 04:47:04 define "refactoring" Jun 22 04:47:19 99% of my nix experience comes from cli on a remote dedicated server so i just happen to prefer nano Jun 22 04:47:37 google.com/refactoring Jun 22 04:47:51 :/ Jun 22 04:48:24 I'm not talking about renaming local variables but system-wide refactoring support Jun 22 04:49:09 nvm its a script on my vim environment Jun 22 04:49:33 THats really strange.. Is the gui what takes it so long to load? Jun 22 04:49:39 it does smart refactoring though, same as netbeans or any other IDEs Jun 22 04:50:04 imop, luna takes a very long time to finish loading Jun 22 04:50:05 oh, I suppose plugins or tools change that a bit Jun 22 04:50:29 in any case Jun 22 04:50:36 I have to work tomorrow :/ Jun 22 04:50:37 good night Jun 22 04:50:40 i thought it came standard but its something a friend helped me out when i first set up with vim Jun 22 04:51:30 though the real GOOD refactoring you have to pay for. the refactoring in NetBeans or eclipse is laughable compared to ReSharper and CodeRush products for visual studio Jun 22 04:51:36 which is unfortunate Jun 22 04:51:37 I was able to log into my pre through wifi witin 30 secs from with starting Jun 22 04:51:51 imop, yeah - the novacomd service starts up before luna is called Jun 22 04:51:58 blah anyway sleep Jun 22 04:52:11 same with the wifi service Jun 22 04:52:43 also hilarious thing about javascript Jun 22 04:52:47 yeah, seems like almost everything does except luna Jun 22 04:53:27 it has bitshift operators but number based variables are always doubles Jun 22 04:54:03 so when you use bitshift, it converts it into a 32 bit integer, does the operation, then back to a double Jun 22 04:54:08 AWESOME. Jun 22 04:55:17 * ShinAli is watching a bunch of javascript videos from Yahoo! UI Jun 22 04:55:47 Hey, does anyone know how to turn off the boot delay when the battery has died (know what im talking about?) Jun 22 04:55:51 interesting about the doubles and bitshifting Jun 22 04:57:20 i guess it'd only piss off people who think they're being clever by bitshifting the number when they multiply it by something thats a power of two Jun 22 04:57:30 Could someone add that to the wiki ideas? Jun 22 04:57:32 even though all decent compilers already do that for you Jun 22 04:59:10 although i'm liking that functions are first class objects Jun 22 04:59:29 Yeah, i like to think im doing smart things even though im not Jun 22 04:59:30 which i should've figured that out whenever i looked at anything javascript Jun 22 05:05:05 Douglas Crockford has some great JavaScript articles Jun 22 05:05:27 i'm watching his videos right now Jun 22 05:05:31 he's a smart guy Jun 22 05:06:05 He's one of the best to learn from, I'd say Jun 22 05:06:49 yeh, i like his style than any javascript books or whatever since he talks about it as a language and how it works rather than what i can do with it Jun 22 05:06:57 and thats something i can understand a lot better Jun 22 05:07:21 How do i exit out of vi without saving? Jun 22 05:07:22 i hate doing stuff in programming where i have no idea what its doing Jun 22 05:07:23 JavaScript is a terribly interesting language, but it took me years to realize that Jun 22 05:07:27 imop45: q! Jun 22 05:07:27 :q! Jun 22 05:07:46 this is kind of the reason why i picked up on reading java bytecode Jun 22 05:07:46 um... ...more specific.. Jun 22 05:07:53 ESC :q! Jun 22 05:08:17 ok, thanks im getting it slpwly Jun 22 05:08:27 and always have source code available from any library i use Jun 22 05:08:36 [11:37] (Emon) ipkg-opt install nano << is how you exit out of vi Jun 22 05:08:36 Yeah Jun 22 05:09:08 It's nice, because then you can just find any clever tricks they used in the library, and then write your own tight libraries that avoid all the cruft :-) Jun 22 05:09:21 i hate propietary libraries that don't give source code along with the licenses >:| Jun 22 05:09:37 A lot of stuff in the popular JS libraries are going to be useless on the Pre, since they generally exist to smooth over browser inconsistencies. Jun 22 05:09:54 I was a little miffed that Palm used Prototype Jun 22 05:10:11 They really should've written Mojo from scratch Jun 22 05:10:58 i was hoping to write an extension of GWT for Mojo and i used that as a reason for my SDK request to Palm Jun 22 05:11:15 i think that would be interesting shinali Jun 22 05:11:19 and thought about that as well Jun 22 05:11:46 Hmmm Jun 22 05:12:04 i think it would be interesting to do a dual android/webos app .. Jun 22 05:12:09 and be able to use the same code to deploy in both places Jun 22 05:12:10 It would certainly further widen the developer base Jun 22 05:12:31 then developers would likely be drawn to develop for android and webos since they can kill 2 birds with 1 stone Jun 22 05:12:46 ESC ZZ to save right? Jun 22 05:12:50 i know what palm is going for and everything, and there are certainly a lot more web developers than regular old developers, but scheme-like languages themselves aren't really that popular beyond javascript Jun 22 05:13:10 Despite the rabis evangalism of the LISPies :-) Jun 22 05:13:13 *rabid Jun 22 05:13:23 I've tried over and over to get into LISP Jun 22 05:13:26 I think it's so fucking cool Jun 22 05:13:31 but it's just atrocious Jun 22 05:13:36 And I can't stand looking at it Jun 22 05:13:50 Conceptually it's quite beautiful, though :-) Jun 22 05:13:58 i had my fill of parenthesis in my programming languages class Jun 22 05:14:02 in VI, ZZ to save? Jun 22 05:14:07 ML was pretty cool though! Jun 22 05:14:16 imop45: :w Jun 22 05:14:20 ESC :w Jun 22 05:14:34 ok, whats ZZ do? THats what ive been using.. Jun 22 05:14:38 Uhhh Jun 22 05:14:40 Iono Jun 22 05:14:55 http://www.cs.colostate.edu/helpdocs/vi.html imop45 for you Jun 22 05:14:57 Oh Jun 22 05:15:01 Apparently it also saves :-) Jun 22 05:15:04 I never knew that Jun 22 05:15:06 neat Jun 22 05:15:11 Yeah hopefully! Jun 22 05:15:14 i like the fact in javascripts inception that the guy wanted to be scheme like but the higher ups were like "no one will ever accept that many parenthesis'" Jun 22 05:15:20 thank god for those higher ups Jun 22 05:15:20 Yeah Jun 22 05:15:36 Although I think they made too many concessions with Javascript Jun 22 05:15:45 Which have ended up making it quirkier and harder to work with Jun 22 05:15:54 definately Jun 22 05:16:00 Noah- ZZ isnt listed Jun 22 05:16:22 imop45: Google vim ZZ :-) Jun 22 05:16:23 fucking standards aren't doing shit to help out on that either Jun 22 05:16:25 that just vi basics on that Jun 22 05:16:36 zz Jun 22 05:16:47 actually thats why i really don't like web development at all Jun 22 05:16:49 or :wq Jun 22 05:17:04 they try to be strict with standards and shit but EVERYONE tries their best to break them Jun 22 05:17:12 hello everyone, i have my pre rooted...i dont know shite about linux commands, but my screen cracked today and i need to root in and copy out my pictures and ringtones....anyone wanna help? Jun 22 05:17:50 look for your stuff into media Jun 22 05:17:55 mikejaret: They're in /media/internal Jun 22 05:17:56 I think Jun 22 05:18:08 ya gettin there and doin that is foreign to me Jun 22 05:18:12 pm if you wanna help Jun 22 05:18:18 cd /media/internals Jun 22 05:18:24 ill hook you up with a free download of the games my company makes... Jun 22 05:18:48 I'll paste you something Jun 22 05:19:17 ShinAli: There's some interesting stuff to learn on comp.lang.javascript, but the smart guys on there are real pricks, so it takes some steeling :-) Jun 22 05:20:12 screw those guys Jun 22 05:21:09 They're really some of the most terrible people I've ever come across Jun 22 05:21:44 yeah, i like that the ppl here arent assholes when you ask them a question :) Jun 22 05:21:58 i'm tempted to sometimes Jun 22 05:22:01 yes that is REAL nice Jun 22 05:22:08 we're likely to change over time ;-) Jun 22 05:22:16 i'd be tempted if i new the answers... Jun 22 05:22:27 but im usually the one asking Jun 22 05:22:41 i am a auto mechanic and i sometimes get to be an asshole to some people Jun 22 05:22:53 that usually want something for nothing Jun 22 05:23:03 i usually ask a lot of questions as i'm on the whole design side of things concerning the development of software Jun 22 05:23:04 I work at a resort. Asshole is my middle name Jun 22 05:23:10 lol Jun 22 05:23:22 i try hard at it Jun 22 05:23:44 Seems im a natural... Jun 22 05:23:51 lol Jun 22 05:23:59 analysis of algorithms has been one of my favorite classes thus far and i'm disappointed its the last in the undergrad track Jun 22 05:24:32 has anyone gotten webshell working right? Jun 22 05:24:41 it doesn't seem to take up my full screen, seems glitchy etc Jun 22 05:25:42 psykoz: haven't tried webshell. installing ajaxPHPterm right now Jun 22 05:25:48 hey Noah.. im sorry but i dont have A/c and im half dead by the time i get where i need to be... Could i change the compressor myself with a lot of zeal but not that much auto knowledge (i learn fast) Jun 22 05:26:02 I tried ajaxPHPterm, it was kinda meh ;( Jun 22 05:26:19 Yeah... and some things dont work Jun 22 05:26:40 how can I trun wifi on from novaproxy? Jun 22 05:27:09 I mean, to turn wifi on via novaterm Jun 22 05:30:22 ShinAli: Get the Knuth books :-) Jun 22 05:30:34 already got em Jun 22 05:30:37 whole set Jun 22 05:30:47 Well then you're done, who needs classes :-) Jun 22 05:31:28 the best part of them is where i can hammer out theories with the prof who really knew her stuff on this Jun 22 05:31:55 Are you going to grad school? Jun 22 05:32:02 definately Jun 22 05:32:15 Good Jun 22 05:33:32 i'm getting into two research projects next year actually, one with her and the other with a programming languages prof Jun 22 05:34:14 What year will that be for you? Jun 22 05:34:37 my senior, actually. it'll be the last round of CS classes Jun 22 05:34:52 and if i can finish my core by then, i'll be graduating Jun 22 05:35:53 Have you been looking at grad schools? Jun 22 05:36:46 yeah, i'm dreaming about all the big schools like MIT or UT Austin, but I'm definately going to be a shoe in at the one I'm going to right now Jun 22 05:37:00 Where do you go now? Jun 22 05:37:13 university of texas san antonio Jun 22 05:37:28 small CS department but really smart profs so I like it Jun 22 05:38:29 Are you from TX? Jun 22 05:38:35 yup Jun 22 05:38:51 Grad school is a good chance to move, too Jun 22 05:39:01 I was pretty eager to leave DE, so maybe I'm biased ;-) Jun 22 05:39:50 if i leave then i'd be leaving a full-time job which is kind of disappointing as i've wanted to work full-time while i work at grad school. Jun 22 05:39:55 then again i maybe insane Jun 22 05:40:17 but i was also insane enough to take 19 hours last sem while doing tutoring work and working 30 hours a week at my internship Jun 22 05:40:40 It's not insane if you like it :-) Jun 22 05:40:48 I think it's great when people work that hard Jun 22 05:40:50 "tutoring work" meaning being a CS mentor for two undergrads Jun 22 05:41:11 i got 2500 out of it though so that was awesome Jun 22 05:41:42 jblebrun: i was really surprised when i made it out with all As except for one B Jun 22 05:41:58 and that B as attributed to a computer graphics class being insanely hard but fun Jun 22 05:44:41 * ShinAli blabbers Jun 22 05:45:01 I took an undergrad graphics class in grad school Jun 22 05:45:03 it was very cool! Jun 22 05:45:28 we have an undergrad and grad course in graphics Jun 22 05:46:02 though i think the undergrad one was more useful since that it taught lots of theory and math than actually learning how to use opengl Jun 22 05:46:19 Oh, wait, I took a grad one too... Jun 22 05:46:19 i want to add another Launcher Page but moving all the icons is going to take forever. Were do they store the icons for the launcher pages? Jun 22 05:46:26 but it was more researchy... lots of paper reading Jun 22 05:46:47 JamesBaud: Good question :-) Jun 22 05:46:54 i'm taking a summer class in steganography, the guy is crazy about papers Jun 22 05:48:38 they have to store is in some file, is there a linux command to see what was the most recent file written too? Jun 22 05:49:00 JamesBaud: all of the prefs stuff is under /var, that's a good place to start Jun 22 05:49:31 ok, ill check it out now Jun 22 05:49:40 Within a single directoary, you can use ls -lat | head to find the most recently modified files. Jun 22 05:51:28 JamesBaud: You could try ls -lar | grep "Jun 21 22:51" Jun 22 05:51:34 or whatever the exact time you make the change is Jun 22 05:51:44 sorry, ls -laR Jun 22 05:52:06 ls -laR will recursively list all subdirectories, too Jun 22 05:54:16 JamesBaud: It's in a sqlite3 db in /var/palm/data/file_.usr.lib.luna.system.luna-applauncher_0 Jun 22 05:57:46 JamesBaud: It looks like "container" entries in the properties table define the boundaries of a page... Jun 22 05:57:54 i see Jun 22 05:58:31 0000000000000005.db Jun 22 05:58:54 yes Jun 22 05:59:15 k, ill check out the file Jun 22 05:59:20 Do you know how to use sqlite3? Jun 22 05:59:34 That will be helpful for this. Jun 22 05:59:52 nope, but i will check out that file Jun 22 06:00:41 sqlite3 0000000000000005.db Jun 22 06:00:47 select * from properties; Jun 22 06:00:50 that will get you started Jun 22 06:01:10 ok Jun 22 06:04:30 SQLite version 3.6.1 Jun 22 06:04:30 Enter ".help" for instructions Jun 22 06:04:30 Enter SQL statements terminated with a ";" Jun 22 06:04:30 sqlite> Jun 22 06:04:59 ill go look for commands Jun 22 06:06:38 anybody know if dropbear comes with keygen tools? Jun 22 06:06:48 and if so, what are they called Jun 22 06:06:49 I thought I saw some... Jun 22 06:07:22 dropbearkey ? Jun 22 06:07:47 and dropbearconvert Jun 22 06:07:51 yup awesome Jun 22 06:07:51 to convert openssh keys Jun 22 06:07:52 ty Jun 22 06:09:39 thats the reboot code for the pre? Jun 22 06:09:40 wewt, found it, ty jblebrun Jun 22 06:09:55 sqlite> select * from properties; Jun 22 06:09:55 210|com.palm.app.youtube_default|3|4|0|string Jun 22 06:10:10 JamesBaud: .headers on Jun 22 06:10:15 That will show you the names of the fields Jun 22 06:10:17 but now i gata learn how to edit/change the tables Jun 22 06:10:20 hmm weird key it generates Jun 22 06:11:43 looks like the break is at: Jun 22 06:11:49 210|(container)|2|21|0|array Jun 22 06:13:24 is there any like desktop gui software i can use to edit 0000000000000005.db Jun 22 06:15:15 JamesBaud: I think there's a windows SQLite3 GUI. Jun 22 06:15:29 I don't know of any off the top of my head, though. Jun 22 06:15:52 ok, thankx for all the help, ill let you know if i get somewere Jun 22 06:16:06 would someone add this idea to the wiki: find a way to turn the reboot delay off when charging from a dead battery Jun 22 06:16:51 imop45: The reboot delay? Jun 22 06:17:22 Yeah, you cant boot your phone untill 5 or so minutes of charging Jun 22 06:17:25 JamesBaud, there is a way to dump the sqlite db's to html and view through a browser Jun 22 06:17:34 someone wiki'd a nice how to on that Jun 22 06:17:50 JamesBaud: Back up that database before you start playing around Jun 22 06:17:51 sqlite supports a few different display formats Jun 22 06:18:06 retry: He wants to make changes, too Jun 22 06:18:11 i see Jun 22 06:18:14 what's he up to? Jun 22 06:19:04 JamesBaud, basic SQL : UPDATE SET attribute=value, attribute=value, etc. WHERE attributevalue; Jun 22 06:19:33 INSERT INTO
VALUES(value1, value2, value3, etc.); Jun 22 06:19:58 i'm guessing you'll mostly be running updates Jun 22 06:20:44 jb: understand now? Jun 22 06:21:20 yes, but i thought it would be eaiser to edit the file then moving icons, i dont know now, lol Jun 22 06:21:55 Yeah, I just tried making a change Jun 22 06:21:55 what do i need to rebuild shanali's service class? i'm new to java Jun 22 06:22:01 and now I only have one launcher page Jun 22 06:22:49 xorg here? Jun 22 06:24:30 oops, lol Jun 22 06:31:19 hmm, im having problems commentin out something. for example, would i "//" everthing like this: //if (does.something) { //stuff.Controller.topSecret().showSecrets Jun 22 06:31:20 }, Jun 22 06:31:36 You need to comment out the last bracket, too Jun 22 06:31:58 ok, so // EVERYTHING Jun 22 06:32:07 Wherever there is a { in the code, there must be a } to match it. So if you comment out the {, make sure to comment out the closing }, too Jun 22 06:32:33 In the example you've given, yes. Jun 22 06:32:35 ok thanks :) Jun 22 06:35:42 ok, i found all the info in 0000000000000005.db, but i have to edit each feild indivisually, i wish there was some type of drag and drop Jun 22 06:35:57 drag and drop feature Jun 22 06:39:52 why isnt reboot working? root@castle:/# reboot /bin/sh: reboot: not found Jun 22 06:42:27 try /sbin/reboot Jun 22 06:44:23 i got it with /sbin/shutdown -r +4 (wanna listen to this 4 min long song Jun 22 06:45:35 there should be a web page for graphics, like diffrent "Phone Locked" background, or "Dialer Background" Jun 22 06:47:35 yeah the wki is getting disorganized Jun 22 06:49:25 hmm, audio continues 20 secs during shutdown Jun 22 06:54:17 Wheres the palm bootup logo located? Jun 22 06:58:00 /usr/palm/sysmgr/images/palm-logo-bright.png Jun 22 06:58:34 Should be in the wiki Jun 22 06:58:39 it fades between that and the "normal" one Jun 22 06:59:01 put it in the wiki :) Jun 22 06:59:14 is it possible to edit the dialer? Jun 22 06:59:18 Yeeah, thinking of changing it to the apple logo on fire or with bullet holes Jun 22 06:59:36 that an animated png file? Jun 22 06:59:37 Yes you can acc Jun 22 06:59:46 add features too? Jun 22 06:59:53 Can i edit the wiki now? Jun 22 06:59:57 i want to have an automatic speed dialer Jun 22 07:00:01 do you have an account imop45? Jun 22 07:00:21 joshua: no, it automatically fades between the two Jun 22 07:00:30 I made on yes b/c someone else told me to just add an idea myself Jun 22 07:00:40 ok- so i can modify the code and image thats on the one used on the phone? Jun 22 07:00:42 A page about the locations of graphical elements is a good idea Jun 22 07:00:46 and rearrage it the way i like? Jun 22 07:00:48 you should be able to edit as long as your account's been confirmed imop45 Jun 22 07:00:52 do i need anykind of decomplier? Jun 22 07:01:21 It said i needed to apply and the admins will approve id they wanted to Jun 22 07:01:22 what type of file is it? Jun 22 07:01:30 yes, did you do that? Jun 22 07:01:40 you'll get an email if it's approved Jun 22 07:01:50 what type of files are we working with? Jun 22 07:02:27 ?? Jun 22 07:03:02 guess i cant get a legit anwser? Jun 22 07:03:04 =P Jun 22 07:04:13 access: A large portion of the core applications is written using HTML+JS. Jun 22 07:04:31 access: It's not obfuscated or compressed, so you can simply view and edit the code. Jun 22 07:04:40 Firefly-no i havent gotten anything Jun 22 07:04:47 you mean all the core applications. Jun 22 07:05:29 access: However, that's a very rudimentary question for you to ask, you may want to explore the predev wiki and the Palm Developer Network portal to become a bit more acquainted with the platform. Jun 22 07:05:33 what about the image Jun 22 07:05:51 are there image files within the sub folders/ Jun 22 07:06:10 cdm: If you ignore the huge amounts of functionality that are implemented in java or native code, and accessed through service calls, then OK, yes. :-) Jun 22 07:06:24 Oh well... I guess im not good enough to add things:) Jun 22 07:06:25 sure, but services != applications Jun 22 07:07:44 Yes, but in the context of his question, I think it's fair to say that not everything is written in JavaScript. Jun 22 07:08:34 grr.. i wanna add one idea to the damn wiki! either that or organize it or sumsing. Jun 22 07:08:58 Ok, well goodnight Jun 22 07:14:18 Yes, bed is seeming like a good idea. Jun 22 07:25:27 has anybody figured out how to run shell scripts from the GUI yet? Jun 22 07:25:37 is that in the wiki anywhere? Jun 22 07:25:59 retry: ShinAli wrote a basic Java service that allows you to trigger commands via luna-send Jun 22 07:26:04 retry: So, kinda Jun 22 07:26:19 trigger linux shell commands? Jun 22 07:26:23 Yes Jun 22 07:26:33 i thought luna-send WAS a shell command Jun 22 07:26:52 there's got to be built in facilities for it Jun 22 07:27:02 i mean the palm apps do all kinds of filesystem manipulations Jun 22 07:27:20 Yes, it's a command-line utility for mimicing the service requests you can submit from within an application. Jun 22 07:28:11 If something responds via luna-send, it should be possible then to use the service from a webOS application. It's just that no one has written anything around it yet. Jun 22 07:28:19 retry: Do they? Or do they ask a service to do it for them? Jun 22 07:29:24 cdm well they probably ask a service Jun 22 07:29:45 but one would hope the service has some simple facility to just fire off shell cmds Jun 22 07:30:19 I'd settle for something akin to a backtick operator even if it's blocking Jun 22 07:31:11 An amazing amount of stuff you would do at a shell prompt can be done via JS. Jun 22 07:32:30 oh? Jun 22 07:32:54 can I loop over a dir with the find cmd and rsync files to a remote server? Jun 22 07:33:49 btw, I have a script run from cron that will scan for new pics and upload them to a remote server Jun 22 07:34:18 can you pastebin it? Jun 22 07:34:21 it uses a lock file to avoid multiple concurrent crons Jun 22 07:34:38 and renames the pics with an x at the front and excludes all pics beginning with x from future attempts Jun 22 07:34:51 retry: You could probably write a headless app that listens for camera events and uploads the files when they're created. Jun 22 07:34:56 Filefly, sure , I'll probably write it up in wiki too Jun 22 07:35:07 I guess you will have to wait for the SDK. But you will notice that several apps are able to get a listing of all the image files on the device. And that the PDF and Office viewers can get file lists and have a file chooser. Jun 22 07:35:22 cmd, yeah good point Jun 22 07:35:25 instead of renaming the files, you could just move them to a directory Jun 22 07:35:25 I might poke at those Jun 22 07:35:28 keep the photo's app open when you take a picture, for example. Jun 22 07:35:39 Filefly, but I want them to still be accessible by the phone Jun 22 07:35:45 aha :D Jun 22 07:35:47 if you move them into a subdir of the DCIM pic dir they are in Jun 22 07:35:55 idk if the frontend can still see them Jun 22 07:35:56 modern apps really shouldn't be worrying about filesystem semantics or where files are stored, etc, etc. Jun 22 07:36:06 huh? Jun 22 07:36:44 what if there was a device with no filesystem? Jun 22 07:36:48 booted from the cloud Jun 22 07:36:59 apps served over the air, live Jun 22 07:37:09 there'd still be data then to access Jun 22 07:37:14 you'd have to use different techniques to get them Jun 22 07:37:16 sure, but not in a filesystem Jun 22 07:37:24 it's a filesystem on the cloud Jun 22 07:37:25 which is why there are other techniques Jun 22 07:37:26 it's just masked Jun 22 07:37:38 you have to use an API to connect to the cloud Jun 22 07:37:48 i mean before there were clouds Jun 22 07:37:50 there was nfs Jun 22 07:37:58 and samba Jun 22 07:38:18 i mean if someone wants to write some middleware Jun 22 07:38:22 that isn't the same at all... not conceptually. Those are conceptually the same as a disk. Jun 22 07:38:22 This is why I keep a magic wand in my desk drawer at work. Jun 22 07:38:24 that can deal with all those various protocols Jun 22 07:38:39 the cloud is conceptually teh same as a disk Jun 22 07:38:41 S3 is a disk Jun 22 07:38:51 albeit a very big, very limited one Jun 22 07:39:06 only if you try to limit it to being a disk. It isn't a disk, it's a data source. Jun 22 07:39:18 a disk is a data source Jun 22 07:39:24 Jun 22 07:39:28 never mind Jun 22 07:39:31 i don't get your semantic games Jun 22 07:39:36 no games Jun 22 07:39:50 if you want to have a single api to deal with various data sources Jun 22 07:39:53 someone has to do that work Jun 22 07:40:18 right now, i'm interested in writing front end apps for the pre that can read the filesystem and call shell cmds Jun 22 07:41:12 if someone wants to port s3cmd to it, great Jun 22 07:41:23 should work since its just python Jun 22 07:43:44 Filefly, http://webos.pastebin.com/d12a83e7 Jun 22 07:44:11 thank you Jun 22 07:44:24 on the remote side, i have a simple php script that'll display pics from a dir and if they are larger than 1000 wide or 800 tall, they'll get resized on the fly Jun 22 07:44:47 retry: You should just make it a webOS app Jun 22 07:44:58 prerequisites are: enabling cron and having a keypair set up Jun 22 07:45:02 jblebrun, yeah I want to Jun 22 07:45:32 but I haven't had time to figure out how the MOJO code interacts with the backend Jun 22 07:45:43 if someone does , I'll reimplement Jun 22 07:46:13 Have you looked at the Photo viewing app? Jun 22 07:46:51 cdm was giving you some useful hints, there. Jun 22 07:47:27 yeah I know Jun 22 07:47:34 I will eventually Jun 22 07:47:52 is cdm one of the pre devs or something? Jun 22 07:48:33 Google his name :-) Jun 22 07:48:44 already done Jun 22 07:50:31 :) Jun 22 07:51:11 next time I'll genuflect more Jun 22 07:51:15 yoooo Jun 22 07:51:45 love how that 1.0.3 update wipe the camera tweaks Jun 22 07:51:48 mmm Jun 22 07:52:07 yeah but they're easy to put back if you made backups of all the files tweaked Jun 22 07:52:08 luckily i backed up all my files that i tweaksed so i just sftp's em over Jun 22 07:52:16 there ya go Jun 22 07:52:23 :D Jun 22 07:52:28 i diffed the files they removed comments is all Jun 22 07:52:31 When you tweak apps, copy them to /var/usr/palm/applications and give them a new name and ID :-) Jun 22 07:52:36 at least from the modded files Jun 22 07:52:43 but nowww initctl doesnt work from putty only root Jun 22 07:53:00 jblebrun, i dont liek that approach Jun 22 07:53:06 then if an update changes more stuff Jun 22 07:53:11 Well, sure. Jun 22 07:53:12 I have to merge probably a lot more code than the tweaks I made Jun 22 07:53:14 you can still get root through a putty ssh shell pazookie :) Jun 22 07:53:16 But you can't have everything. :-) Jun 22 07:53:24 You want the Palm updates to do code merges now? ;-) Jun 22 07:53:31 no no Jun 22 07:53:37 but merging my 10 line hacks here and there Jun 22 07:53:47 is much simpler than merging whatever palm is likely to do Jun 22 07:53:52 aalways gives me wrong password Jun 22 07:54:01 I think peef is working on a patch repo Jun 22 07:54:02 pazookie: sudo su - Jun 22 07:54:06 So that'll be nice. Jun 22 07:54:10 but the point is before i could use initctl on my username in putty and now i cant after update Jun 22 07:54:14 hell I could put every app I play with into svn Jun 22 07:54:28 pazookie: try /sbin/initctl Jun 22 07:54:32 assuming palm updates don't wipe out .svn dirs Jun 22 07:54:39 I'd have a nice change log Jun 22 07:54:57 retry: it's a git repo Jun 22 07:55:04 pazookie, you probably lost /etc/profile mods Jun 22 07:55:17 I'm not a fan of git Jun 22 07:55:19 prefer svn Jun 22 07:55:24 more of a familiarity thing Jun 22 07:55:42 git is much more powerful (although I've not really used it yet.. just read about it) Jun 22 07:55:51 It also doesn't little your filesystem with .svn directories Jun 22 07:55:55 *liter Jun 22 07:55:57 *litter Jun 22 07:55:59 argh Jun 22 07:56:02 hm Jun 22 07:58:26 ok Jun 22 07:58:32 soooo time for bed Jun 22 08:06:13 web servers... who needs em. bah humbug Jun 22 08:09:34 heh Jun 22 08:09:37 i like web servers Jun 22 08:09:54 that reminds me, I should try installed that php-thttpd pkg Jun 22 08:10:00 installing* Jun 22 08:11:53 how much smaller than lighttpd or nginx is that Jun 22 08:16:49 a lot smaller from what I gather Jun 22 08:17:10 lighty and nginx are smaller than apache but thttpd and cherokee are another level of small Jun 22 08:36:21 hey folks. Jun 22 08:36:21 I have a quick question. Jun 22 08:36:30 I'm trying to root to my palm device, but I keep hitting erno 10061. Jun 22 08:36:40 firewalls are off, antivirus is off, palm pre is connected. Jun 22 09:30:48 hi Jun 22 09:50:40 hmm Jun 22 10:55:10 hey i ran into a problem any1 here to help me ? :D Jun 22 10:55:44 im up to /opt/bin/ipkg-opt update and im getting an error Jun 22 10:55:56 in the root Jun 22 10:58:32 what error Jun 22 11:00:20 are you on wifi or evdo? Jun 22 11:00:48 hmm Jun 22 11:01:23 wifi Jun 22 11:01:51 can you ping ipkg.nslu2-linux.org Jun 22 11:03:14 64 bytes from blah blah Jun 22 11:04:06 wow its spamming lol Jun 22 11:04:43 how do i stop it from pinging? Jun 22 11:04:58 can you cut n' paste the exact error Jun 22 11:05:20 yea sure but how can i stop this from pining Jun 22 11:05:23 pinging* Jun 22 11:05:27 ctrl-c Jun 22 11:05:33 kk Jun 22 11:05:44 never used linux before? :) Jun 22 11:05:50 nah lol Jun 22 11:05:58 im good with computers though i learn quick :P Jun 22 11:06:51 how can i copy ctrl c usually copys but idk how to on linux Jun 22 11:07:04 are you using putty? Jun 22 11:07:31 oops Jun 22 11:07:33 you using putty? Jun 22 11:07:39 nah command prompt Jun 22 11:08:22 oh you're still telnetting.. Jun 22 11:08:28 yea Jun 22 11:08:32 you'd have to make it a window and there's an option to copy Jun 22 11:09:28 ok i think i got it 1 sec Jun 22 11:09:43 http://ipkg,nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cross/kernel/pac Jun 22 11:10:04 don't mind that Jun 22 11:10:14 i need the exact url so i can check if its up or not Jun 22 11:10:46 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cross/kernel/Pa Jun 22 11:10:46 ckages.gz Jun 22 11:10:46 wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Jun 22 11:10:46 An error ocurred, return value: 1. Jun 22 11:10:46 Collected errors: Jun 22 11:10:46 ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp Jun 22 11:10:48 -q -P /opt/ipkg-XDU33b http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cro Jun 22 11:10:50 ss/kernel/Packages.gz' Jun 22 11:10:52 root@castle:/# Jun 22 11:13:29 u get it ? Jun 22 11:14:25 yeah Jun 22 11:14:32 i have an idea what the problem is Jun 22 11:14:43 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cro Jun 22 11:15:04 forgot the ss? Jun 22 11:15:32 nah Jun 22 11:15:40 under feeds, should be optware not opware Jun 22 11:15:50 o0oo Jun 22 11:16:03 shit Jun 22 11:16:05 looks like the address has changed from what you had Jun 22 11:16:15 there's no kernel subdiir under cross Jun 22 11:16:30 you have to change it to cross/stable/Packages.gz Jun 22 11:17:16 honestly man i was just following the lines, i fucked up with that 1 letter but I don't know how to change shit exactly Jun 22 11:17:26 hold up a sec Jun 22 11:17:28 kk Jun 22 11:17:39 you just ran /opt/bin/ipkg-opt update? Jun 22 11:17:48 i tried to yea Jun 22 11:17:53 and thats the error i got Jun 22 11:18:23 ok hold up a sec Jun 22 11:19:24 cd /opt/bin Jun 22 11:19:29 type that ^^^ Jun 22 11:19:32 then Jun 22 11:19:33 k Jun 22 11:19:35 ./ipkg update Jun 22 11:20:39 it says sh /ipkg not found Jun 22 11:20:49 use hte . Jun 22 11:20:53 ./ipkg update Jun 22 11:21:07 should look like this Jun 22 11:21:19 root@castle:/opt/bin# ./ipkg update Jun 22 11:22:06 got a big error now here ill paste it Jun 22 11:22:19 oh i know what the problem is .. hold up Jun 22 11:22:29 k Jun 22 11:23:06 ok Jun 22 11:23:11 type this Jun 22 11:23:19 make sure its letter by letter Jun 22 11:23:23 kk Jun 22 11:23:31 and dont' press enter until i tell cus its going to go to multiple lines Jun 22 11:23:41 got ya Jun 22 11:24:11 echo src/gz cs08q1armel Jun 22 11:24:29 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable Jun 22 11:24:42 >> /opt/etc/ipkg/optware.conf Jun 22 11:24:45 then press enter Jun 22 11:25:09 make sure thats letter by letter Jun 22 11:25:13 otherwise it wont work Jun 22 11:26:49 ok i typed it in Jun 22 11:26:55 nothin happened Jun 22 11:27:01 went to next line Jun 22 11:27:24 ok so now Jun 22 11:27:28 ./ipkg update Jun 22 11:28:08 i think part of it worked Jun 22 11:28:11 but i got an error Jun 22 11:28:12 3. Get the ipkg-opt package from the Optware package feed: Jun 22 11:28:12 cd /tmp Jun 22 11:28:12 wget http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/ipkg-opt_0.99.163-10_arm.ipk Jun 22 11:28:17 oops Jun 22 11:28:22 wrong copy Jun 22 11:28:29 hah Jun 22 11:29:20 Downloading http://ipkg Jun 22 11:29:20 ckages.gz Jun 22 11:29:20 wget: server returned e Jun 22 11:29:20 Downloading http://ipkg Jun 22 11:29:20 ackages.gz Jun 22 11:29:21 Inflating http://ipkg.n Jun 22 11:29:23 kages.gz Jun 22 11:29:25 Updated list of availab Jun 22 11:29:27 An error ocurred, retur Jun 22 11:29:29 Collected errors: Jun 22 11:29:31 ipkg_download: ERROR: C Jun 22 11:29:33 -q -P /opt/ipkg-YXsAaW Jun 22 11:29:35 ss/kernel/Packages.gz' Jun 22 11:30:00 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cross/kernel/Pa Jun 22 11:30:01 ckages.gz Jun 22 11:30:01 wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Jun 22 11:30:01 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/P Jun 22 11:30:01 ackages.gz Jun 22 11:30:01 Inflating http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/Pac Jun 22 11:30:03 kages.gz Jun 22 11:30:05 Updated list of available packages in /opt/lib/ipkg/lists/cs08q1armel Jun 22 11:30:07 An error ocurred, return value: 1. Jun 22 11:30:09 Collected errors: Jun 22 11:30:11 ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp Jun 22 11:30:13 -q -P /opt/ipkg-YXsAaW http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cro Jun 22 11:30:15 ss/kernel/Packages.gz' Jun 22 11:30:17 there we go Jun 22 11:31:08 for some reason your ipkg is downloading the wrong package Jun 22 11:31:50 try this Jun 22 11:32:03 lol its retarded thats y Jun 22 11:32:30 ./ipkg -f /opt/etc/ipkg/optware.conf update Jun 22 11:33:12 ipkg-opt? Jun 22 11:33:21 they're one n' the same Jun 22 11:33:39 ipkg in /opt/bin is a link to ipkg-opt in /opt/bin Jun 22 11:33:53 err visa versa Jun 22 11:34:03 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cross/kernel/Pa Jun 22 11:34:04 ckages.gz Jun 22 11:34:04 wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Jun 22 11:34:04 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/P Jun 22 11:34:04 ackages.gz Jun 22 11:34:04 Inflating http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/Pac Jun 22 11:34:06 kages.gz Jun 22 11:34:08 Updated list of available packages in /opt/lib/ipkg/lists/cs08q1armel Jun 22 11:34:10 An error ocurred, return value: 1. Jun 22 11:34:12 Collected errors: Jun 22 11:34:14 ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp Jun 22 11:34:16 -q -P /opt/ipkg-YXsAaW http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cro Jun 22 11:34:18 ss/kernel/Packages.gz' Jun 22 11:34:29 weird.. strength, you know how to port forward? Jun 22 11:34:41 nope Jun 22 11:34:45 are you behind a router? Jun 22 11:34:53 yea Jun 22 11:34:56 what kind Jun 22 11:34:59 linksys Jun 22 11:35:17 well the option ic an give u is to let me telnet to ur pre Jun 22 11:35:33 its up to u if u can trust me Jun 22 11:36:15 had to do it for someone else a couple nights ago Jun 22 11:36:19 i would never let any1 do that lol even though ur so helpful and nice :P Jun 22 11:36:53 no prob.. but not much more i can do here.. not sure why wget isn't downloading the proper package Jun 22 11:37:09 route? Jun 22 11:37:25 you think i should start over with the commands lol ? Jun 22 11:37:29 its tryin gto download from an incorrect directory Jun 22 11:37:44 strength, well yo'ud have to uninstall and reinstall opt-ware Jun 22 11:37:54 tmzt, like an old directory thats invalid now Jun 22 11:38:02 o0 that sucks Jun 22 11:39:02 well.... Jun 22 11:39:13 was it 404? Jun 22 11:39:18 yea Jun 22 11:39:29 is kernel part of the url? Jun 22 11:39:43 ya Jun 22 11:40:01 wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found Jun 22 11:40:13 ipkg_download: ERROR: Command failed with return value 1: `wget --passive-ftp Jun 22 11:40:13 -q -P /opt/ipkg-YXsAaW http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cro Jun 22 11:40:13 ss/kernel/Packages.gz' Jun 22 11:40:19 can you open it in a browser? Jun 22 11:40:25 no that one doesn't exist Jun 22 11:40:29 hense 404 Jun 22 11:40:48 it should be feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/Packages.gz Jun 22 11:40:49 rwhitby: here? Jun 22 11:40:58 not opware and kernel Jun 22 11:41:07 yea how do i fix that? Jun 22 11:41:08 so edit the .conf file Jun 22 11:41:09 Stregth Jun 22 11:41:16 i just had him cat to the conf file Jun 22 11:41:20 strength Jun 22 11:41:25 go to /opt/etc/ipkg Jun 22 11:41:27 cat optware.conf Jun 22 11:41:29 and paste it here Jun 22 11:41:57 permission denied Jun 22 11:42:05 on which command? Jun 22 11:42:10 cat optware.conf? Jun 22 11:42:11 as root? Jun 22 11:42:13 ur not root then Jun 22 11:42:15 this 1 /opt/etc/ipkg Jun 22 11:42:21 i may have disconnected Jun 22 11:42:25 cd /opt/etc/ipkg Jun 22 11:42:26 they say to play music Jun 22 11:42:52 that command went Jun 22 11:42:54 threw Jun 22 11:43:02 now type cat optware.conf Jun 22 11:43:12 and paste the results Jun 22 11:43:33 src/gz kernel http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/opware/cs08q1armel/cross/kernel Jun 22 11:43:33 src/gz cs08q1armel http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/s Jun 22 11:43:33 table Jun 22 11:43:33 root@castle:/opt/etc/ipkg# Jun 22 11:43:41 ok thats why Jun 22 11:43:47 rm optware.conf Jun 22 11:43:48 opware Jun 22 11:43:54 when you catted i told you >> instead of > Jun 22 11:43:54 my bad Jun 22 11:44:06 its all good man Jun 22 11:44:11 rm optware.conf Jun 22 11:44:14 just use nano/vi Jun 22 11:44:24 tmzt, he doesn't have optware installed so nano isn't there Jun 22 11:44:28 and i don't really plan on teaching him vi Jun 22 11:44:31 so anyways Jun 22 11:44:33 rm optware.conf Jun 22 11:44:36 then Jun 22 11:44:47 kk Jun 22 11:44:49 done Jun 22 11:44:49 echo src/gz cs08q1armel Jun 22 11:45:01 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable Jun 22 11:45:10 > optware.conf Jun 22 11:45:14 then press enter Jun 22 11:45:17 letter for letter Jun 22 11:45:18 kk Jun 22 11:46:02 then /opt/bin/ipkg update Jun 22 11:46:37 yay !! Jun 22 11:46:44 it worked awesome Jun 22 11:46:59 cool Jun 22 11:47:27 now back to my homebrew beer stuff Jun 22 11:47:35 thanks so much man Jun 22 11:47:43 now i need to follow the rest of the stuff right Jun 22 11:48:13 dropbear or openssh? Jun 22 11:48:19 openssh right ? Jun 22 11:50:29 openssh is what i use Jun 22 11:50:38 but i notice my phone has slowed down a bit since i used it Jun 22 11:50:44 from what i hear dropbear is less memory intensive Jun 22 11:53:12 alright i'm out.. 'nite Jun 22 11:54:56 sorry i got disconnected Jun 22 12:26:16 hey guy i need quick help Jun 22 12:26:20 simple question Jun 22 12:27:18 im on putty, im trying to follow the codes to put the flashlight and im getting a lot of nano not found 0mA not found etc Jun 22 12:27:23 lots of not found Jun 22 12:32:17 any1? Jun 22 12:36:02 nano not found ? Jun 22 12:36:06 did you install nano ? Jun 22 13:07:51 see uz tomorrow for help !! :D Jun 22 13:23:49 I need help on permissions for my pre. Jun 22 13:24:02 I'm trying to scale the CPU, however, when I try to access /sys/ as root, it says permission denied. Jun 22 13:24:05 Anyone? Jun 22 13:32:33 you try to just cd /sys and you get permission demied ? Jun 22 13:32:46 Yeah. Jun 22 13:32:50 that's a little crazy Jun 22 13:33:04 root@castle:/var/home/root#: /sys/ Jun 22 13:33:06 can you go to webos.pastebin.com and paste exactly what you're typing and the error you get ? Jun 22 13:33:09 -sh:/sys/:Permission denied Jun 22 13:33:16 ah, yes Jun 22 13:33:18 you need ... Jun 22 13:33:28 http://predev.wikidot.com/basic-linux-use Jun 22 13:33:36 sigh. Jun 22 13:33:41 What am I missing? Jun 22 13:33:53 I've been trying different things, but I can't get access to that directory. Jun 22 13:33:57 cd /sys Jun 22 13:34:00 change directory Jun 22 13:34:27 ... Jun 22 13:34:28 well Jun 22 13:34:28 shit Jun 22 13:34:30 seriously? Jun 22 13:34:39 sorry to ask, what's the difference in just doing /sys/ vs cd /sys/ Jun 22 13:34:59 /sys/ is a command to the shell interpreter to try to do something Jun 22 13:35:01 like run a command Jun 22 13:35:10 an execution if you will Jun 22 13:35:18 cd is the action and /sys is the location Jun 22 13:35:29 just saying a location doesn't tell the shell what you want to do Jun 22 13:36:16 ah Jun 22 13:36:19 cool. Jun 22 13:36:41 yeah - hope that helped Jun 22 13:36:49 neat. Jun 22 13:36:54 I have cpu scaling enabled Jun 22 13:37:35 Not much of a difference it seems Jun 22 13:38:05 that's good, right ? Jun 22 13:38:11 well - unless battery is the same Jun 22 13:38:23 cpu scaling should help when you go into deep sleep mode - and scale your processor backk Jun 22 13:38:33 or while you're just reading an email and doing nothing else Jun 22 13:38:39 Well. People have said that the battery runs cooler, and its faster. Jun 22 13:38:56 and yeah. Jun 22 13:38:58 it is faster... Jun 22 13:39:14 hopefully my battery life doesn't take a hit Jun 22 13:39:22 make sure you heed the warning about less life of the product while running at 600MHz Jun 22 13:39:55 ah overheating = reduced life. Jun 22 13:40:05 I doubt it, most processors can handle pretty high heat levels. Jun 22 13:40:20 especially if users are noticing colder runs? Jun 22 13:41:03 I enabled scaling yesterday morning. Oddly, this morning the phone's alarm sounded and everything was fine. But the next time I tried to turn it on, it would not. Jun 22 13:41:16 yikes. Jun 22 13:41:21 I think I'm going to have to pull the battery. Jun 22 13:41:31 Any suggestions? Jun 22 13:41:53 can't get in via ssh either. Jun 22 13:42:09 have you force restarted the device? Jun 22 13:42:10 pull the battery Jun 22 13:44:08 how long does it need to be out? :-/ Jun 22 13:44:19 a few seconds Jun 22 13:44:26 couple seconds then put it back and hit the button Jun 22 13:45:02 palm logo. whew. Jun 22 13:45:24 has anyone, or have i missed it, figured out how to change the image associated with the bookmarks on the main browser page? Jun 22 13:45:31 I read one other account where someone tried it and it did pretty much what I just experienced. Jun 22 13:45:37 wouldn't come out of sleep at some point. Jun 22 13:45:49 I think it was either precentral.net forums or maybe here. Jun 22 13:46:04 * lars47 ducks out to grab eats. Jun 22 13:47:59 awfully quiet in here Jun 22 13:48:06 too quiet ? Jun 22 13:48:19 lol Jun 22 13:48:46 anyone have a clue about what I asked? Jun 22 13:48:59 ...what'd you ask? Jun 22 13:48:59 so I've not been around for a few days, anything new and exciting? Jun 22 13:49:18 God Jun 22 13:49:19 I love this pre. Jun 22 13:49:22 And I work at the apple sotre. Jun 22 13:49:23 *store Jun 22 13:49:41 Trying to find out if there is a way to change the bookmark image on the main browser screen (the one when the browser is opened) Jun 22 13:50:09 Not unless you delete it and resave the bookmark. Jun 22 13:50:26 When you resave it, just pinch into whatever logo or whatever part of the website you want as the main picture? Jun 22 13:50:42 djbclark: you here? Jun 22 13:50:51 tried that. the image in the bookmarks menu item is fine. this is the image that shows up on the main browser page when opened. it looks like it just defaults to the left top corner Jun 22 13:51:24 Pain in the ass. Jun 22 13:51:28 I don't think you can change that. Jun 22 13:51:33 very much a pain Jun 22 13:51:53 i was hoping someone had stumbled across the file after rooting Jun 22 13:52:23 tie an image to it, i.e. the facebook one, the palm one...etc. Jun 22 13:52:47 No idea.... Jun 22 13:54:15 anyone try a dinovo mini with the hid driver yet? Jun 22 14:00:28 well crap Jun 22 14:02:47 lmao hellsadvocate....Apple guru loving the Pre? Jun 22 14:18:22 Hello, not exactly sure how this works but I am having trouble rooting my pre and followed the directions from pre dev but cannot get talk.py to open my pre. Jun 22 14:18:50 do you errors when running the talk.py Jun 22 14:19:23 no errors, but when i try to telnet says cannot open port 23 Jun 22 14:20:40 what are you using to telnet to it? puTTY? Jun 22 14:21:22 I was just using the command line from DOS Jun 22 14:21:45 trying using puTTY Jun 22 14:21:59 I think there are problems with the command line one Jun 22 14:22:51 mornin everyone, anything exciting happen over the weekend? Jun 22 14:23:07 ok, I'll try that. Another question, when running talk.py do you run it from the Python GUI or from the Python command line program? Jun 22 14:23:23 haven't had any issues with command line telnet. which version of windows are u using? Jun 22 14:23:30 I have been running it from command line Jun 22 14:23:45 Im on windows XP Jun 22 14:23:54 ah...try Putty LMAO Jun 22 14:24:15 I managed to get novaproxy working on Win7 Jun 22 14:24:16 x64 even Jun 22 14:24:27 wow Jun 22 14:24:36 i dumped win7 because i couldn't get crap to work on it Jun 22 14:24:51 I'll bundle it up into an installer eventually and see if I can link it on the wiki Jun 22 14:25:06 When I bring up the Python command line program, it will not let me get to the directory where the talk.py program resides Jun 22 14:25:22 TemperamentalMan: really? From my experience, aside from things that explicitly check what OS version they are on, it's been at least as compatible as vista Jun 22 14:25:36 mayge I'm doing it wrong Jun 22 14:26:03 just cd to where talk.py is and running it from there Jun 22 14:26:06 oh man...i went through 4 hours of trying it on 7 man...i gave up. as soon as i reinstalled Vista, enabled telnet, it went right through Jun 22 14:26:41 avr8.....cd /users/chris/downloads/repository files (just an example) Jun 22 14:26:51 then from there c:\python26\python talk.py Jun 22 14:26:53 when I type "cd file" it says syntax error Jun 22 14:27:08 virtualbox is a good thing to have when needing to run different OS's to get something done Jun 22 14:27:21 agreed djk Jun 22 14:27:54 cd file? you mean directory Jun 22 14:28:03 yes directory Jun 22 14:28:20 let me try it again and I'll tell you what it says Jun 22 14:29:46 says 'cd' is not defined Jun 22 14:30:02 once you are in the directory of talk.py script then just Jun 22 14:30:02 python talk.py Jun 22 14:30:26 you cd at the OS command level not interactive python Jun 22 14:30:58 If you want to try the novaproxy way, you can just double-click the script file Jun 22 14:31:38 so, you're saying that I cd from the DOS command line? Jun 22 14:31:53 Not the command line in Python? Jun 22 14:32:23 right Jun 22 14:33:23 Ok, I did it from the DOS command line and I got the whole screen with all of the "expected" messages and still could not telnet Jun 22 14:33:35 huh weird, emailing myself the bit.ly link to simply flip flops app and then clicking on it just starts a loop of browser windows opening Jun 22 14:33:42 is your virus prot and firewall turned off? Jun 22 14:34:09 no firewall but avg antivirus is on still Jun 22 14:34:40 a/v shouldn't be a problem are you using puTTY or xp telnet still Jun 22 14:34:50 xp telnet Jun 22 14:35:26 yeah a/v should be fine. Jun 22 14:36:10 I followed all the directions to the T from the pre dev instruction list but no luck Jun 22 14:37:00 av8r: get puTTY and try telnet Jun 22 14:37:22 ok, I'll get it now Jun 22 14:37:28 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ Jun 22 14:38:17 ok, I got it, now what? Jun 22 14:39:55 dumb question, I've had the phone fully charged at 7:30PM and now its down to 63% at 9:39AM is that good or bad for the phone Jun 22 14:40:09 av8r: run putty.exe Jun 22 14:40:20 ok Jun 22 14:40:35 Bsims: i had fully charged at 6am now is 10:40 and I have 92% Jun 22 14:40:35 :) Jun 22 14:41:01 I put in my ip address Jun 22 14:41:07 Bsims: has it be sitting idle? do you have bluetooth on, checking for email automatically, IM? Jun 22 14:41:09 what port? Jun 22 14:41:30 av8r: just select the telent button it will select 23 Jun 22 14:41:38 djk1: email and IM via google talk Jun 22 14:41:48 bluetooth is off Jun 22 14:42:09 how frequently are you getting email? I have recommend setting it to manual Jun 22 14:42:25 are you at the latest version of 1.0.3? Jun 22 14:42:41 yes Jun 22 14:42:48 and email is every 15 minutes Jun 22 14:42:56 not push email ? Jun 22 14:43:29 set mail to never unless you really need it to be updated all the time Jun 22 14:43:42 push email FTW! Jun 22 14:44:09 Well I like it to be constant Jun 22 14:44:23 how do I set google and yahoo mail to push Jun 22 14:44:25 then you will drain the battery Jun 22 14:45:04 Ran puTTY and selected telnet and clicked "open" and it just gives me the Windows "something's wrong" alert and closes. Jun 22 14:45:17 anything that uses the cell radio frequently will drain it. If you able to use WiFi turn it on Jun 22 14:45:23 * Bsims grrs its convenient for me to have it on my phone, if I wanted to manualy sync my email I'd have stuck with my fusic Jun 22 14:45:29 its on now I have it at work not at home Jun 22 14:46:10 wifi is less intense on the battery Jun 22 14:46:16 wifi turns off when the phone goes to sleep and it isn't in use Jun 22 14:47:29 is setting email to as items arrive more efficent? Jun 22 14:47:46 Also, I don't understand where Python comes in if you run the talk.py from a DOS command line Jun 22 14:47:52 Bsims: you'll have to experiment Jun 22 14:47:54 I don't tend to get a /lot/ of email but they can be important Jun 22 14:47:58 that is just for notifications, right? how often do you want to see the email notifications ? Jun 22 14:47:58 djk1: Ok fair enough Jun 22 14:48:26 Hrm also what besides cpu scailing would I get from rooting my phone Jun 22 14:48:38 a sense of exploration Jun 22 14:49:38 Bsims: check the web forums there are several that have suggestions on battery life. I have awful life initially but it has greatly improved. Not sure if the battery needed some cycling of if I tweaked the email etc Jun 22 14:50:19 Bsims: again check the web site on what has been done so far by the rooting Jun 22 14:50:48 there are some tweaks to apps and other things you might find useful Jun 22 14:51:31 * Bsims nods first thing I did was update the phone Jun 22 14:51:54 Well back to work Jun 22 14:53:48 hello, has anybody performed the New Cards For Each Messaging Conversation hack? Jun 22 14:55:40 I found that if I receive a message while the the messaging app is closed, after the new convo's card appears, you cannot open the main messaging app Jun 22 14:56:00 unless you close that convo card Jun 22 14:56:13 djkl wondering if you'd walk me through rooting this thing? I'm very intelligent and can't see why this is not working. I've followed the directions to the letter. Jun 22 14:58:25 av8r: I just msg'd you to chat outside the channel Jun 22 14:58:52 how do I chat with you outside? Jun 22 15:00:05 mrjcarter: and in messaging if you have a sms conversation going and you app is open and someone sends you a sms u will still get notification even if the messaging app is open Jun 22 15:00:26 you can do /msg djk to start it Jun 22 15:01:08 en0x, yes I've noticed that too Jun 22 15:02:50 I believe the creator of the hack, Mike dg, mentioned that he found a way to correct at least the first issue (not opening the app) but I haven't seen him around lately Jun 22 15:35:07 noticed that to en0x Jun 22 15:36:00 a lot of things that need modded Jun 22 15:38:37 mornin Jun 22 15:38:45 morning Jun 22 15:38:49 ahoy Jun 22 15:39:08 mrjcarter - if you go to card view after sending, then rcv...open the card, it removed the notification. but only if u are in card view first Jun 22 15:39:09 hemna, any camera progress? Jun 22 15:39:14 hey hemna Jun 22 15:39:35 I didn't get a chance to work on it this weekend Jun 22 15:39:39 I took my son camping Jun 22 15:39:50 father's day yesterday and today is his bday Jun 22 15:39:57 :) going camping today/tonight :) Jun 22 15:40:04 nice Jun 22 15:40:08 TemperamentalMan, I'm more concerned about not being able to go back into the message app than having pointless notifications Jun 22 15:40:50 ahhhh gotcha. Jun 22 15:42:38 thanks for the tip though Jun 22 15:43:17 no problem Jun 22 15:44:02 wb hellsadvo Jun 22 15:44:07 thanks TemperamentalMan Jun 22 15:44:25 You know. I've figured that the Pre is much better than the 3GS Jun 22 15:44:38 what confuses the hell out of me, is that the 3GS with the same hardware, is faster with applications. Jun 22 15:44:55 it's all smoke and mirrors LMAO Jun 22 15:44:59 If there's one thing I'd love to change about the Pre, is application launch times. Jun 22 15:45:06 Yeah, since they're just running 1 APPLICATION at a time. Jun 22 15:45:29 i would add the ability to minimize cards Jun 22 15:45:31 they use a totally different software architecture .. Jun 22 15:45:35 and actual very different hardware as well Jun 22 15:45:48 true true Jun 22 15:45:59 They both use an A8 Jun 22 15:46:05 even though apple's is a modified version. Jun 22 15:46:09 they both have the same graphics chip as well. Jun 22 15:46:45 Man the Pre + Zune HD = Sex. Jun 22 15:46:53 lmao Jun 22 15:47:05 Those hardware specs on the zune sound like somekind of a porno. Jun 22 15:47:11 i had the original iphone, and the 3G...loved them 'til i realized they sucked Jun 22 15:47:11 Tegra based Chipset. Jun 22 15:47:16 Same. Jun 22 15:47:19 And I got bored. Jun 22 15:47:27 Everyone has one :p and it's not very hackable. Jun 22 15:47:32 tegra is arm11 - which is old news .. Jun 22 15:47:38 whaaaa Jun 22 15:47:42 Tegra is Arm 11? Jun 22 15:47:49 have you seen MID's running Tegra? Jun 22 15:47:52 they out like 1080p. Jun 22 15:47:55 I wish the Pre had a micro sd slot, that's basically the only issue I have with it (having never seen one) Jun 22 15:48:21 I wish it smiled at me. Jun 22 15:48:23 that would be nice. Jun 22 15:48:23 one day maybe Jun 22 15:48:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQa9nP4yyms Jun 22 15:48:35 lol Jun 22 15:48:41 I'm thinking a card slot will be one of the "new features" on a second-gen Pre Jun 22 15:48:43 The tegra is awesome because of how qiuck shit launches. Jun 22 15:48:50 hope so dice Jun 22 15:48:55 a lot of peope wish that. But if you look at the internals, it would have been impossible to fit into the case as it is. a second gen pre will have to be bigger Jun 22 15:48:55 i honestly hope Palm doesn't just throw away the Pre though. Jun 22 15:48:58 any clues why I get connection refused? is there a way to check what the running iptable has? Jun 22 15:49:04 Apple does one big thing, it supports it's old hardware real well. Jun 22 15:49:14 The original iphone users still are getting an upgrade (3.0 Jun 22 15:49:21 Palm needs to focus on each device. Jun 22 15:49:32 so, your definition of old is '2 years' ? Jun 22 15:49:36 Yup. Jun 22 15:49:46 yeah and i love their underhanded marketing....EMTPY store with 10 people outside posing for pictures. You can't go in and buy a case for an iPod this weekend without standing in a BS line Jun 22 15:50:00 sigh Jun 22 15:50:03 I have to work today Jun 22 15:50:05 because apple does _not_ support their older hardware hardly at all. Jun 22 15:50:06 at the only Apple Store in 30 miles. Jun 22 15:50:07 Rick! what's up? Jun 22 15:50:29 the iphone came out... 2 years ago?! Jun 22 15:50:30 Beating on the open file in local file system service. Jun 22 15:50:30 Holy shit. Jun 22 15:50:40 Hellsadvocate: what do you mean by each device? Palm is moving onto webOS and PalmOS is done Jun 22 15:50:55 No no, like Palm should really focus on WebOS Jun 22 15:50:59 which so far I have utterly failed to make work. Jun 22 15:51:01 instead of pumping out more powerful devices. Jun 22 15:51:05 Andriod and WinMO have one problem. Jun 22 15:51:11 They have to make their OS's for all types of devices. Jun 22 15:51:27 Whereas Palm, can customize it towards each phone and nurture it. Jun 22 15:51:46 the pre will continue to evolve as will the software. at that point i'm sure newer versions of webos will continue to work on the original pre Jun 22 15:52:07 just like ipone 3.0 Jun 22 15:52:40 This is weird: Jun 22 15:52:43 iphone 3gs: ARM Cortex-A8 833 MHz underclocked to 600 MHz PowerVR SGX GPU[10] Jun 22 15:52:49 Pre: 600 Mhz Texas Instruments OMAP 3430 (ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX) Jun 22 15:52:55 ...they're using the same GPU? Jun 22 15:53:26 the problem is that people aren't comparing 1st gen devices. forgetting that the current ipone took 2 years to get here. forgetting that it took 2 years to get MMS. things like that Jun 22 15:53:32 the open and launch services can be used as callbacks. So, you can be runing "MyEbookReader" and tell it to Jun 22 15:55:08 Why is the palm pre getting shit for not having games when it has the same amazingly next gen GPU as the 3gs? Jun 22 15:55:36 I'm missing something, is it because Java, CSS, HTML won't let you code it? that won't be an issue if palm opens the SDK deeper right? Jun 22 15:55:46 b/c we don't have 50,000 apps..90% of which are useless Jun 22 15:55:50 Okay, I have some Win7 installers for Novacom - anyone have a win7 box and would be willing to test? Jun 22 15:56:12 hahah we have 100, out of which 40% are useless. Jun 22 15:56:13 damn siegel...where were you last week??!?!?!?! lol Jun 22 15:56:19 right people forget the iPhone didn't have a bunch of apps to start either Jun 22 15:56:19 this.controller.serviceRequest('mojo://com.palm.applicationManager', { method: 'open', parameters: { target: "file://text/chapter1.txt"},onFailure: this.onFailureHandler}); Jun 22 15:56:38 when did we get 100? Jun 22 15:56:43 Has anyone here tried putting a DNS service like dyndns on their Pre? Jun 22 15:56:57 not yet dice...sometime today i'm going to try that Jun 22 15:56:57 searedice: there are directions for that on the wiki Jun 22 15:56:58 The Pre as a 1.0 device, is solid. I love it. I can't wait to go to work today, while selling Iphone 3GS's and use my Pre in the back. Jun 22 15:57:12 Thanks, cphelps; I'll check that out Jun 22 15:57:12 Hellsadvocate: hehe Jun 22 15:57:14 TemperamentalMan: I'm around from time to time - How busy I get at work is inversely related to how much I can play with this stuff Jun 22 15:57:16 and it goes out to the resource list and double checks what apps should open .txt files. Jun 22 15:57:39 Rick_: where is the resource list located? Jun 22 15:57:39 so, you have to add myebookreader to the command.resources.json list of mime types.... Jun 22 15:57:45 lol i gave up on 7 is all. meh...works fine now Jun 22 15:57:55 djk1: the pre is off to a much faster start than 3rd party iphone devs were -- admittedly most of the problems are easier Jun 22 15:58:10 Rick_: And why the fuck doesn't the browser use it? Jun 22 15:58:12 command.resource.handers.json Jun 22 15:58:20 the browser DOES use it Jun 22 15:58:20 Windows 7 is a bitch to SSH into the Pre with. Jun 22 15:58:37 ssh my ass...couldn't even get that far Jun 22 15:58:38 that's why the browser says "I don't have an application to use that file type." Jun 22 15:58:50 Hellsadvocate: you can't just run putty or something? Jun 22 15:59:03 has anyone got a native gui terminal yet? Jun 22 15:59:04 Setting up SSH and a backdoor on the Pre, is impossible with Windows 7. Jun 22 15:59:11 not impossible Jun 22 15:59:14 Putty runs fine once you have SSH setup. Jun 22 15:59:22 if you edit / hack command.resource.handers.json, andcreate an app that just SAVES the freaking file using serviceRequest applicationManager with method 'save' ofwhatever it's handed Jun 22 15:59:28 Virtual Box + Windows XP Jun 22 15:59:30 Hellsadvocate: Assuming these installers work, that will no longer be true :p Jun 22 15:59:40 youcould registerthat for a gazillion mime types and just enable downloads. Jun 22 15:59:57 Rick_: Then why can't the browser open a PDF while the email app can? Jun 22 16:00:26 browser uses a DIFFERENT resource list. Jun 22 16:00:39 Rick_: That's seriously lame Jun 22 16:00:45 I have a couple win7 test machines here I am going to give them a good run-through Jun 22 16:00:46 stupid pdf reader doesn't have a "save" function .... Jun 22 16:00:53 Oh dude Jun 22 16:00:57 why can't the browser save images? Jun 22 16:01:02 That's bogus. Jun 22 16:01:14 I had to email myself images, in order to save them as wallpapers. Jun 22 16:01:27 Rick_: although the real issue I am having now is why I can't install the ipk that was posted from an email Jun 22 16:01:29 hahah most random thing webOS doesn't have. Jun 22 16:01:43 Rick_: if I attach it directly, the email app says it doesn't have a handler Jun 22 16:01:47 You can make wallpapers from the photo-view app too (if you can hook up the USB connection/media drive) Jun 22 16:01:49 but you COULD write an app that would accept the pdf and then, based on the mime type open the pdf reader against it. Jun 22 16:01:52 Rick_: and if I just link it, it does nothing Jun 22 16:02:26 I have done nothing with the installer stuff. You'll need to wait until one of that team shows up later, they're generally on in the evening us time. Jun 22 16:02:54 searedice1: Thanks for that bit of info. Jun 22 16:03:04 I'm just sad I can't hold my finger on the picture, and save. Jun 22 16:03:33 searedice, do what??? Jun 22 16:03:50 Rick_: Where are those json files for registering mime handlers? Jun 22 16:04:34 come on cp.... use find. Jun 22 16:05:06 Rick_ if you don't mind me askin, what are you guys tryin to do? Jun 22 16:05:11 open PDF's in browsers? Jun 22 16:05:24 Rick_: I'm not on my phone now. At work. Jun 22 16:05:35 Hellsadvocate: have the browser send PDF's to the pdf app Jun 22 16:05:59 Rick_: The browser is all set for doing downloading IF a mime handler is found Jun 22 16:06:07 What _I_ am trying to do is write an ebook reader app. Jun 22 16:06:18 correct cp Jun 22 16:06:34 try downloading a word doc. xxx.doc Jun 22 16:06:35 I've traced out that code pretty thoroughly, and it seems it should work if the mime reader is registered Jun 22 16:06:41 yep Jun 22 16:06:49 Sounds interesting. Jun 22 16:06:53 But tough. Jun 22 16:07:01 no. not really Jun 22 16:07:34 Seriously, where do you guys upload these custom apps? Jun 22 16:08:15 Rick_: I am getting no hits on that filename Jun 22 16:08:24 Rick_: was it in a jar? Jun 22 16:08:49 cp, it's in /usr/palm Jun 22 16:09:04 command.resource.handlers.json I left an"l" out Jun 22 16:09:13 it was in the rootfs tar Jun 22 16:09:30 Rick_: it's dashes, not . Jun 22 16:09:43 command-resource-handlers.json Jun 22 16:09:48 nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs Jun 22 16:09:55 arrrggghhh. right. so it is. Jun 22 16:09:56 morning Jun 22 16:11:08 Aha! So that's what the streaming music player is for, and why it's not visible Jun 22 16:11:13 it's just a mime handler Jun 22 16:11:16 interesting file then, huh.... Jun 22 16:11:20 yep Jun 22 16:11:47 Rick_: I still don Jun 22 16:11:55 so this is not for the browser? Jun 22 16:12:09 No, it IS ALSO for the browser Jun 22 16:12:18 but notice how pdf has "streamable: false" Jun 22 16:12:33 the BROWSER won't open files that have resources that aren't streamable Jun 22 16:12:40 Right, so the download has to occur first Jun 22 16:12:47 I hate accountants/accounting Jun 22 16:12:49 nodnod Jun 22 16:12:55 Rick_: then what is the deal with all that downloading code? Jun 22 16:13:19 I have no freaking idea Jun 22 16:13:31 and that's part of my problem. Jun 22 16:13:54 recognize, I'm working on the apps side, not the browser side where you are. Jun 22 16:14:09 Rick_: I don't understand.. Jun 22 16:14:28 Rick_: if the PDF viewer can get a list of all PDFs on the internal memory... Jun 22 16:14:28 is there anyone here who can add me to the dev group on gitorious? Jun 22 16:14:29 and I can not FOR THE LIFE OF ME figure out how to open a local file system file in my app and get the contents into variables in the js Jun 22 16:14:39 Rick_: then you should be able to do the same for txt? Jun 22 16:14:43 which it can CP.... Jun 22 16:15:05 Yes, I should. But clearly, I have not registered something correctly, or I have not made the call correctly. Jun 22 16:15:24 I need help with SSH timing out, if anyone can offer some help working on step #17 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 22 16:15:55 when I try to ssh to the evdo ip or wifi IP i get timed out attempting to ssh Jun 22 16:15:57 but if you've been looking at the download stuff in the browser, it's_got_ to be calling this file for the registration information unless there's ANOTHER registry somwhere. Jun 22 16:16:12 doesn't it? Jun 22 16:16:24 Rick_: I think what you said makes sense. Jun 22 16:16:34 Streamable is something it queries on Jun 22 16:16:48 Tivon: ssh -p 222 yourusernamehere@preipaddy. Jun 22 16:16:54 why is it timing out? Jun 22 16:16:55 does running the webosdoctor take the phone back to the original state or are the changes for dropbear /opt etc still there? Jun 22 16:17:01 I -think-that's why the email trick works. Jun 22 16:17:04 Rick_: and since downloading is enabled on the email app, that's why PDF works Jun 22 16:17:29 Rick_: so the ipkg is or is not streamable? Jun 22 16:17:51 email downloads FIRST, then calls the 'open' method of the applicationManager service.... which launches the right file. Jun 22 16:18:27 Why is it timing out? I'm thinking something along the lines of the vi command I did with openssh settings and removed"-i eth0" Jun 22 16:18:34 Rick_: That method definitely does not work Jun 22 16:18:53 Rick_: downloading an ipkg and then attempting to launch it will say that there is no handler Jun 22 16:18:57 ipkg does not appear in the resource file I have Jun 22 16:18:57 then tivBook:~ tivon$ ssh -p 222 tivon@192.168.0.103 Jun 22 16:18:57 ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.103 port 222: Operation timed out Jun 22 16:19:02 but It times out Jun 22 16:19:04 Rick_: however, that could easily be fixe Jun 22 16:19:13 right. Jun 22 16:19:36 that's my thinking.... I -think- you could just add ipkg to the resource file as streamable and bingo. Jun 22 16:19:38 I think. Jun 22 16:19:57 Rick_: Should be easy enough to test, eh? Jun 22 16:20:25 what would be REALLY easy to test, and interesting to see what happens,would be to flip pdf to streamable.... :-) Jun 22 16:20:43 Tivon, make sure the device is still connected to the internet. Jun 22 16:20:46 If anything, just exit out Jun 22 16:20:48 Rick_: flip, or add? Jun 22 16:20:51 telnet back into the device Jun 22 16:20:56 and set it up Jun 22 16:21:02 telnet back as root Jun 22 16:21:03 pdf is already in there. ipkg isn't. Jun 22 16:21:05 don't run talk.py Jun 22 16:21:25 Rick_: I'm willing Jun 22 16:21:37 trying pdf now. Jun 22 16:21:38 wait one Jun 22 16:21:39 Rick_: are we streaming it to findapp? Jun 22 16:21:47 ok Jun 22 16:22:14 I'm going to try just flipping this line: { "extn":"pdf", "mime":"application/pdf", "appId":"com.palm.app.pdfviewer", "streamable":false }, Jun 22 16:22:17 to say true Jun 22 16:22:46 hi all. It seems that the novacom application that palm provides only works on x86 mac architecture. Is this a known issue? I did not see anything about it on the forums or wiki. Jun 22 16:23:17 I do remember reading something that said that Jun 22 16:23:30 correct fallen Jun 22 16:24:57 connected via wifi , still times out via evdo Jun 22 16:25:04 drat. thanks. Jun 22 16:25:11 evdo will timeout. Jun 22 16:25:17 Just set up through wifi right now Jun 22 16:25:33 when everything is done, you can ssh into the phone using the evdo ip from PuTTY Jun 22 16:25:45 ok CP, luna is coming back up Jun 22 16:25:47 mac os, so I'm in terminal Jun 22 16:25:53 ok though Jun 22 16:25:58 Same rules. Jun 22 16:26:00 yeah Jun 22 16:26:04 ssh through evdo later. Jun 22 16:26:05 just specifying Jun 22 16:26:07 ok Jun 22 16:27:33 before I restored my OS, i was able to ssh via evdo, and not wifi (ironically enough) Jun 22 16:29:30 CP Jun 22 16:29:58 when you do that.... here's what happens.... the browser launches the pdf viewer, which failes with "render failed." Jun 22 16:30:10 Rick_: still, that's awesome Jun 22 16:30:13 SO.... to open up downloads we need a "intermediate app" Jun 22 16:30:20 Rick_: it means (a) you are right about streaming Jun 22 16:30:43 Rick_: and (b) we can fix the whole shit with a downloader based on code from the browser Jun 22 16:30:54 Rick_: OR just figure out how to use the downloader as is Jun 22 16:30:57 a "generic app" which accepts downloads as streams, and then saves them as files using applicatonManager with the method "save" which saves into /media/.... Jun 22 16:31:06 rather Jun 22 16:31:30 Rick_: do you know what the mime type of ipk is? Jun 22 16:33:08 so I ssh'd via wifi before reboot, rebooted the phone to confirm ssh access, ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.103 port 222: Connection refused Jun 22 16:33:13 what are you trying to do? just download a file? Jun 22 16:33:15 and got connection refused Jun 22 16:35:35 application/vnd.shana.informed.package ???? Jun 22 16:35:52 Tivon, I wonder if ssh didn't start up on boot... might just do it the initial telnet way, and confirm that it's configured to start correctly (step 13) Jun 22 16:36:21 see http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oesf.org%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DIPKG_Howto&ei=6bI_SuPjOobOMY691awO&usg=AFQjCNFgarwR7zN0p4tDjE6X0mZJsTmSNQ&sig2=f-aGesk7zDdNCobeI8JxnA Jun 22 16:36:41 mdklein: we are talking about two sides of the same issue. Jun 22 16:37:17 from the browser, how do you register a file to be "downloadable" since on almost all file types, the browser says "I have nothing registered to use that file type" Jun 22 16:37:41 Well, we found the controlling file.... command-resource-handlers.json -- but it's still got problems. Jun 22 16:38:19 because the browser uses the same code that we have to use in APPS to open files... which is a service call to applicationManager using an "open" or "launch" method. Jun 22 16:38:28 and the opening or launching app has to be registered in that file. Jun 22 16:38:53 so if you want to make a new app to edit text files you have to register YOUR app in that json to handle txt mime types. Jun 22 16:39:15 Rick_: adding ipk as an application/octet-stream did not do the trick for the email app with ipk's attached Jun 22 16:39:17 and if you want to be able to DOWNLOAD them, you have to also deal with the need for them to be "streamable." Jun 22 16:39:50 If anyone wants to test the Win7 installers, you can download them from http://github.com/bsiegel/novacom_win7 - they are under the bin directory Jun 22 16:40:15 cphelps: -- uh.. so why is xorg and company saying it works for them. And PreDevCentral has a mailto on the FRONT PAGE Jun 22 16:40:34 which, I admit, Ihaven't tried yet Jun 22 16:40:51 brb afk 4 minutes Jun 22 16:41:07 Rick_: That is a link to an ipk. That one doesn't do anything for me Jun 22 16:41:23 Rick_: k, I've been looking for that too, so I'll keep you posted... It sounded like you were just trying to figure out a call to get pre to download a file, which is pretty simple. Jun 22 16:42:27 mdklein: what we need is to flip whatever switch is off in the browser Jun 22 16:42:37 mdklein: since it has all of the download code in there Jun 22 16:42:59 will it be possible soon to root from an emailable app? Jun 22 16:43:30 timboy: I can't even verify that the emailed app works Jun 22 16:43:32 thanx searedice, however I went back to #13 redid the stops through #16 and now I get connection refused when trying to ssh on both evdo & wifi (#17) Jun 22 16:43:59 cphelps, gotcha Jun 22 16:44:00 using openssh config Jun 22 16:44:01 Rick_: maybe killing LunaSysMgr isn't enough. I will restart completely,. Jun 22 16:46:48 Tivon: do you even get a response if you ping your Pre "ping preipaddy" (from your own comp) Jun 22 16:47:22 yes 5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss Jun 22 16:47:34 mdklein: If you look at the code for the pdf reader, and if you look at the services chapter of the O'Reilly book, the call to open an existing file is straightforward. Jun 22 16:47:55 you call the service com.palm.applicationManager with the method "open" Jun 22 16:48:19 but THAT looks to command-resource-handlers.json to figure out -what- can open a file of that type. Jun 22 16:48:38 so you have to register your app in there to be able to handle the file. Jun 22 16:48:43 and then it can function as a callback Jun 22 16:49:12 BUT BUT BUT that doesn't automatically get you downloads out of the browser because the browser will only download resources which are tagged as "streamable." Jun 22 16:49:55 So, to enable downloading some particular mime type, you have to create a helper app which can accept the stream, and then save THAT to a file. Jun 22 16:49:59 and I'm not there yet Jun 22 16:51:18 Tivon: if you get in with telnet, you can try running ssh from there (ssh -p 222 tivon@localhost)... if it doesn't work, then at least you know it's a problem with openssh config... if it does work, then the problem could still be with the connection to the Pre (your computer firewall or something) Jun 22 16:52:02 Rick_: I am going to attack it from the browser side to see if there is something that just needs to be enabled Jun 22 16:52:17 Rick_: the call to download an arbitrary file to /media/internal/downloads is also straight forward. Jun 22 16:52:36 really? Jun 22 16:52:42 palm://com.palm.downloadmanager/download {"target":"http://www.some.file",\"subscribe\":\"true\"} Jun 22 16:52:42 ????? Jun 22 16:53:16 escape out the first param appropriately Jun 22 16:53:16 is there an ipk content-type hiding in the browser somewhere already? Jun 22 16:54:02 cphelps: When I click on the link in the email I sent to myself, it did in fact download and install siplyflipflops app onto my pre. Jun 22 16:54:04 that worked. Jun 22 16:54:22 no, there is no ipk in the resource Jun 22 16:54:43 Rick_: Why the hell isn't it doing anything for me? Jun 22 16:54:43 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.downloadmanager/download {\"target\":\"http://www.google.com/index.html\"} <-- will put index.html into /media/internal/downloads Jun 22 16:54:58 tell you what cp, pm me your email Jun 22 16:55:08 and I will send it to you and you can try it. Jun 22 16:55:12 I think I bricked my pre :( Jun 22 16:55:12 ah. does the ipk installation via email chroot or have limited permissions or could it be used to enable remote access? Jun 22 16:55:35 twobitsprite: you mean you can't even restore it with the doctor now? Jun 22 16:55:38 note that ___nothing happens___ on the screen when you do it, but if you go to the first page of the launcher, and scroll to the bottom, it is added. Jun 22 16:55:55 Rick_: maybe that's the issue Jun 22 16:55:55 I clocked it up to 600MHz and turned on scaling... then I made a phone call, and when I went to hang up, the screen was blank and now I can't get it to do anything Jun 22 16:56:06 destinal_work: dunno, I haven't tried... I'm at work Jun 22 16:56:14 Rick_: I'm officially a moron Jun 22 16:56:19 twobitsprite: power cycle by removing battery / reinserting? Jun 22 16:56:39 destinal_work: rwhitby said that optware is working on signing and posting links to auto-install optware packages to the pre via email links as soon as today. Jun 22 16:57:00 cool Jun 22 16:57:32 good and bad, really. good if we can root via ipks, bad that stupid users may be afflicted with trojans by installing dancing bear screensavers from email. :) Jun 22 16:57:47 sadly the user is dumb Jun 22 16:57:56 destinal_work: such is life, I guess Jun 22 16:58:12 twobitsprite: power off -- battery out. hold volume button up, battery in while holding, power on -- should go to rom routine which will download from webosdoctor. Jun 22 16:58:17 hope you had backups Jun 22 16:59:03 twobitsprite: as fas as I know, that's what has happened to everyone who has tried cpu clock scaling. Jun 22 16:59:09 too dangerous to screw with Jun 22 16:59:24 cphelps: welcome to moronosity Jun 22 16:59:50 searedice can you elaborate more, I can telnet in n/p Jun 22 16:59:53 now, if they will just PUBLISH THE DAMNED INSTRUCTIONS. Jun 22 17:00:12 Rick_: yeah, lesson learned :P Jun 22 17:00:16 Rick_: actually come to think of it, it's worse. A man in the middle could replace your cool emailed app with a dangerous one. Jun 22 17:00:23 since they can sign it themselves Jun 22 17:00:30 nodnod Jun 22 17:00:38 but yeah, battery out and back in seems to have fixed it... its booting now Jun 22 17:00:44 but but but Jun 22 17:01:15 the fact that the technique works means that we SHOULD be able to write a non-palm app-store app. Jun 22 17:01:34 Tivon: In the telnet session, just try "ssh -p 222 tivon@localhost" and see if it connects to itself... if so, openssh is indeed running and so you know that's not the problem Jun 22 17:01:38 which might have to go in via "oddball" installation techniques when they close the email hole, which I suspect they will. Jun 22 17:01:42 but in the mean time...... Jun 22 17:01:55 * Lurking_Grue wonders where he could get a dancing bear screensaver for his pre as it would be nice to get anything new for the phone. :) Jun 22 17:02:24 Grue, we're WORKING ON IT. Jun 22 17:02:34 x3 Jun 22 17:02:39 :) Jun 22 17:02:52 Rick_: The problem is PageAssistant.prototype._downloadResource Jun 22 17:03:06 Rick_: Instead of starting a download, it just bails out Jun 22 17:03:43 nodnod Jun 22 17:03:55 /bin/sh: ssh: not found Jun 22 17:04:41 maybe try "sudo su -" before the ssh line, then? Jun 22 17:04:58 Rick_: we'll be downloading in an hour probably, this shouldn't be that difficult Jun 22 17:06:03 Wow. and furthermore -- gosh. Jun 22 17:06:04 I can't ssh from within the same terminal window doesn't even find the command Jun 22 17:06:11 after that tiny tiny edit to the resource file..... Jun 22 17:06:16 damn Jun 22 17:06:27 when I clicked on a link to a zip file, it got looping new windows Jun 22 17:06:32 lol Jun 22 17:06:39 yeah Jun 22 17:06:50 just have to flick the newest quickly Jun 22 17:07:28 huh? Jun 22 17:07:40 oh, before it loops out? Jun 22 17:07:43 yeah Jun 22 17:07:45 What is it DOING? Jun 22 17:07:58 man Jun 22 17:08:33 I just reboot my pre, so I can't quote the code at the moment, but it's just looping open commands, which are calling browser and repeating Jun 22 17:09:26 but but but ... I didn't EDIT the zip line, aamof, there ISN'T a zip line. I edited PDF. Jun 22 17:09:29 weird. Jun 22 17:10:20 Tivon: It's like ssh isn't set up, then... either not installed, or the daemon isn't running (sshd)... could happen if you had trouble with step 13b Jun 22 17:10:35 question: did you try a zip earlier pre-edit? Jun 22 17:10:52 because I also didn't do anything related to zips and my browser loops on them Jun 22 17:11:51 ahhh Jun 22 17:11:57 then perhaps zips are a special case Jun 22 17:12:11 I -hate- special cases. Jun 22 17:12:23 I thought I had busted something while messing with the download controller code, but I'm thinking they're special case too Jun 22 17:12:28 a special broken case... Jun 22 17:12:33 yep, restored json.... and it still loops Jun 22 17:12:47 but pkill LunaSysMgr still does.... Jun 22 17:13:07 cphelps: Does the fact that zips are a broken special case help you? Jun 22 17:13:19 is there a way to post my "cat optware-openssh" code without disrupting the chan Jun 22 17:13:29 step #13b was complete with no problem Jun 22 17:13:32 pastebin Jun 22 17:13:41 if that's what you mean? Jun 22 17:13:50 yeah Jun 22 17:14:49 Rick_: Not sure Jun 22 17:15:04 Rick_: from the browser or email? Jun 22 17:15:11 browser Jun 22 17:15:27 attempt to download a zip file, and the browser keeps launching new browsers, loops. Jun 22 17:15:34 when unmodified. Jun 22 17:16:53 Rick_: I don't see anything in the code that would make that happen thus far Jun 22 17:17:51 http://pastebin.com/m32719bba Jun 22 17:18:20 I can't really verify for sure as I'm not completely unmodified :-/ currently I have it endless loops on any unhandled file type for me now... I've been trying to debug and catch it for a download dialog Jun 22 17:19:50 mdklein: are you screwing with the handlers, or the code itself? Jun 22 17:20:09 cphelps: a bit of both Jun 22 17:21:12 mdklein: did you find the part in the page handler that disables all downloads that aren't streams? Jun 22 17:22:00 http://pastebin.com/d39ebc6b2 Jun 22 17:22:02 Tivon: what about "/opt/bin/ssh -p 222 tivon@localhost" o___o Jun 22 17:23:13 in the telnet session, that is Jun 22 17:23:15 root@castle:/# ssh -p 222 tivon@localhost Jun 22 17:23:15 /bin/sh: ssh: not found Jun 22 17:23:30 put the /opt/bin/ part in there too Jun 22 17:23:35 so you specify exactly where it's going Jun 22 17:23:57 also might try "ls /opt/bin" and see if "ssh" shows up in the output Jun 22 17:24:04 root@castle:/# /opt/bin/ssh -p 222 tivon@localhost Jun 22 17:24:04 /bin/sh: /opt/bin/ssh: not found Jun 22 17:25:05 cphelps: right now I'm looking at getting downloadResource functional.. the problem is I've modified a lot of stuff, so I'll probably need to webdoctor before I can be sure it works with minimal amounts of changes ;-) Jun 22 17:25:29 Tivon: running "ls /opt/bin | grep ssh" should show ssh,ssh-add,ssh-keygen,ssh-keyscan Jun 22 17:26:12 If it doesn't, ssh's just not there...something went bad in the openssh install Jun 22 17:26:15 mdklein: understood. I am looking at the same thing. I can't find any examples of setting up the DownloadController, so I'll just be winging it Jun 22 17:28:37 horrible Jun 22 17:28:44 grep ssh hung up the search Jun 22 17:28:55 root@castle:/# ls /opt/bin Jun 22 17:29:00 ls: /opt/bin: No such file or directory Jun 22 17:29:37 damn I guess I have to do another webdoctor restore? it takes so long its horrible. Jun 22 17:30:10 I don't understand what excatly the issue is, it remains unclear, thats my major problem Jun 22 17:30:49 the /opt directory is not in the stock image Jun 22 17:30:56 you have to create it and enable the optware feed Jun 22 17:30:58 the /opt directory is one you make in step 2a, and the bin directory should be created by the optware installers, i believe Jun 22 17:31:00 then install things Jun 22 17:31:30 Yes, he's supposedly going through the steps in the wiki Jun 22 17:32:17 Step 1 is important :P Jun 22 17:32:28 it would probably be helpful to put all the steps in a shell script which gets executed Jun 22 17:32:32 Hello all.. Jun 22 17:32:38 though I dont' think the other steps would fail silently if step1 were done wrong... Jun 22 17:32:41 so people less familiar with linux get it all in one shot Jun 22 17:32:53 yeah Jun 22 17:33:19 a shell script would be great Jun 22 17:33:26 and I'm confident I did step 1 lol Jun 22 17:33:31 lol Jun 22 17:33:41 and every step proceeding Jun 22 17:33:49 I connected ssh via wifi, Jun 22 17:33:50 I've got a (hopefully) quick question about the novaproxy.py Jun 22 17:33:57 then I followed the reboot the phone instructions Jun 22 17:34:01 and thats when it all went to hell Jun 22 17:34:10 tokyo, shoot Jun 22 17:34:30 and I can't run the webdoctor from my macOS I have to get on a windows machine to do it Jun 22 17:34:40 tivon, why not ? Jun 22 17:34:52 osx should be very good for the web doctor Jun 22 17:35:09 the xcode software that came with the iphone sdk screwed up my default programs somehow Jun 22 17:35:14 and everytime I try to run web doctor Jun 22 17:35:15 it errors Jun 22 17:35:22 what is the error ? Jun 22 17:35:51 I'm running windows xp virtually on 7, it gives me the response "invalid syntax" and quotes an html doctype.. Jun 22 17:36:08 when I run novaproxy with python 2.6.2 Jun 22 17:36:14 it trys to launch "dashcode" Jun 22 17:36:17 tokyo, it seems as if you've grabbed the html file from the website and NOT the python code Jun 22 17:36:37 tokyo, try getting the raw python instead of the prettified html Jun 22 17:36:47 "The application dashcode quit unexpectedly" Jun 22 17:36:49 when I followed the link from the wiki thats all I found, figured html is out of place there Jun 22 17:36:50 when trying to run webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jnlp Jun 22 17:36:58 but I thought that file should open up with java Jun 22 17:37:09 it's a jnlp now not a jar ? Jun 22 17:37:11 interesting Jun 22 17:37:33 is Open with... an option for it tivon ? Jun 22 17:37:53 do u have a url for that? The wgit site has a download button that's just a self-anchor /# so it's not a dl link Jun 22 17:38:07 tokyo, plz hold Jun 22 17:38:10 I mean github site* Jun 22 17:38:54 java doesn't pop up as an option for open with Jun 22 17:39:03 isn't that what it should use to handle that file extention? Jun 22 17:39:05 tivon, try using the commandline to force java to run the jar ? Jun 22 17:39:15 weird - can't get to github Jun 22 17:39:37 unfamilar with how to do that. Jun 22 17:39:56 tivon, java -jar filename.jar from the commandline Jun 22 17:40:13 Tivon/bpadalino: This url is still the correct one http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar Jun 22 17:40:40 yea github seems to be down atm Jun 22 17:40:42 http://www.palm.com/ROM is for the doctor url Jun 22 17:41:01 tokyo, yeah - if it's down oh .. i think it's back Jun 22 17:41:06 and it serves up a .jnlp Jun 22 17:41:16 o nevermind Jun 22 17:41:17 When I first accessed it, it DID give me some XML stuff...I figured Opera was just being stupid, so I looked through the XML and found the URL I just mentioned inside it Jun 22 17:41:18 which works fine on windows Jun 22 17:41:29 ok Jun 22 17:41:33 I'm not a member, do i need too be? Jun 22 17:41:53 tokyo, no Jun 22 17:42:03 tivon, grab that jar file Jun 22 17:42:10 nvm I got the java downloader, getting zip now. Jun 22 17:42:13 i doubt cashcode will try to muck with the jar Jun 22 17:42:35 for some reason I had to go to the novaproxy html page, then hit download button Jun 22 17:42:38 dl'n now Jun 22 17:42:41 thanks Jun 22 17:42:43 ty Jun 22 17:43:07 on a tagent, somehow that dashcode/xcode is muffed Jun 22 17:43:17 Tivon: I still wonder why /opt/bin disappeared after rebooting your phone...that's exceptionally odd Jun 22 17:43:17 http://github.com/asedeno/novaproxy/raw/master/novaproxy.py Jun 22 17:43:42 searedice, if the rootfs was not writable at the time they did the mkdir .. it would have given an error Jun 22 17:43:52 searedice, I'm confused myself, i did every step via the wiki Jun 22 17:43:59 ok Jun 22 17:44:06 jws Jun 22 17:44:19 Im downloading the jar, hopefully do a webdoctor and start again, Jun 22 17:44:21 exactly...errors galore, and he says he got ssh working, but it was all gone after a reboot Jun 22 17:44:40 yeah, I def ssh'd via wifi, before reboot Jun 22 17:44:51 setup the key's and everything Jun 22 17:45:05 did the phone reboot, then connection was refused for every attempt Jun 22 17:45:48 I wonder if it was some rare filesystem hiccup or something...hopefully it works out for you soon, Tivon Jun 22 17:46:28 ok thanks paladino, got the file Jun 22 17:46:46 ill find out after an hour of this damn web doctor lol Jun 22 17:46:49 tivon, you don't need to use the web doctor ... Jun 22 17:46:57 tivon, use novaterm connected over usb to figure things out Jun 22 17:47:02 and fix it Jun 22 17:47:52 well, I'm clueless, and when you're unfamilar with command lines/linux people seem to get impatient at times. Jun 22 17:47:55 in all honesty Jun 22 17:47:56 tivon, the pkg file in the jar installs some files in osx to /opt/nova Jun 22 17:48:19 and you can get a terminal by just typing ./novaterm in the /opt/nova/bin directory Jun 22 17:48:22 in a terminal Jun 22 17:48:32 yeah Jun 22 17:48:33 tivon, have you read the linux basics? Jun 22 17:48:38 yeah Jun 22 17:48:44 keep it open in a tab lol Jun 22 17:48:47 heh Jun 22 17:50:00 ok, so I'm connected to root, via usb cable ./novaterm Jun 22 17:50:44 tivBook:~ tivon$ ssh -p 222 tivon@192.168.0.103 Jun 22 17:50:44 ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.103 port 222: Connection refused Jun 22 17:50:56 is my current issue trying to ssh via wifi Jun 22 17:51:26 ps auxw | grep ssh on the pre Jun 22 17:51:46 when you type | your signifying 2 different commands right? Jun 22 17:51:46 ps auxw will show you all the processes running .. grep ssh will look for lines that have "ssh" in them Jun 22 17:51:51 no - type exactly Jun 22 17:51:54 ps auxw | grep ssh Jun 22 17:51:57 ok Jun 22 17:52:11 root 2282 0.0 0.1 2692 448 pts/1 S<+ 10:26 0:00 grep ssh Jun 22 17:52:13 in nix, it's a pipe - which takes the output from the left and shoves it into the input to the right Jun 22 17:52:15 root 2354 0.0 0.2 2692 532 pts/2 R<+ 10:52 0:00 grep ssh Jun 22 17:52:25 the | character is a "pipe" it says, do the first command, and pass the output to the second command which will process THAT Jun 22 17:52:44 tivon, so it appears that your sshd is NOT currently running Jun 22 17:53:10 Sorry about the | I used earlier, Tivon...should have explained that Jun 22 17:53:12 tivon, re-do the steps to enable an ssh daemon on your phone Jun 22 17:53:22 cphelps: mdklein: is the fact that the prototype.js files in the email folder and the mojo folder are _different_ interesting? Jun 22 17:53:29 and you should see a process similar to "sshd -d 222" ... Jun 22 17:53:36 ok Jun 22 17:53:40 Rick_: I dunno Jun 22 17:53:54 Rick_: But the Download stuff is NOT in the sources.json Jun 22 17:53:58 Rick_: which is a bitc Jun 22 17:54:25 Im unclear as to which step I should start from, #9b? Jun 22 17:54:34 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 22 17:54:34 tivon, which guide? please link me Jun 22 17:54:37 thanks Jun 22 17:54:57 what's wrong with starting at line 1 ? Jun 22 17:55:08 rootfs_open -w Jun 22 17:55:13 oops, accident Jun 22 17:55:19 Tivon: are there any dropbear processes running? Jun 22 17:55:21 email has 1.6.0.2 mojo has 1.6.0.3 Jun 22 17:55:50 Bartman007: Tivon said a while back that he was setting up openssh instead of dropbear Jun 22 17:56:01 oops. ignore me then. Jun 22 17:56:30 just saying; I've been lurkin' :P Jun 22 17:57:14 Rick_: Not sure, but I doubt it really matters. Jun 22 17:57:22 k Jun 22 17:57:28 trying to get a handle on this Jun 22 17:57:45 'Rick_: what does matter is that I can't code in the Download stuff if they aren't in the sources list I suspect Jun 22 17:58:04 true enough Jun 22 17:58:50 which takes us back to the helper-app idea unless mdklein: has a better idea Jun 22 17:59:18 Rick_: I dunno. I might just slap together a patch to enable downloading. Jun 22 17:59:26 that would be good. Jun 22 18:01:02 slap it together, then find a way to clean it up and make it pretty Jun 22 18:01:14 Rick_: First I have to make it work Jun 22 18:01:17 then I make it pretty Jun 22 18:01:39 ok, currently @ #14 http://pastebin.com/d20aa8d9f Jun 22 18:03:49 Tivon: did you already edit out the "-i eth0" part of those two lines by the bottom (34/35)? When I did this setup yesterday, I had to do that myself...file came with those in there Jun 22 18:04:14 success ssh w/ wifi & evdo Jun 22 18:04:26 I removed them myself Jun 22 18:04:30 via "vi" Jun 22 18:04:49 Nice; glad to hear it's working now...rebooted yet? o_o Jun 22 18:05:00 @ step #18 before the reboot Jun 22 18:05:46 Sources included...lets see how she flows Jun 22 18:06:27 * Tivon *crossing fingers & rebooting* Jun 22 18:06:38 Browser doesn't start. Ace Jun 22 18:07:16 before I even figure it out, I'd like to say much thanks sear & bpadalino Jun 22 18:08:04 no problemo Jun 22 18:08:21 glad to help Jun 22 18:09:04 Has anyone tried rooting their Pre from Linux? Jun 22 18:09:35 jlefler: I think most people have done it virtually if they are on lin Jun 22 18:10:16 Thanks, cphelps. I should just fire up qemu or vbox, but it feels....dirty... logging into one closed source system to expose an open source system ;) Jun 22 18:10:27 jlefler, there isn't a version of novacomd that is released that runs on linux Jun 22 18:10:47 tivBook:~ tivon$ ssh -p 222 tivon@192.168.0.103 Jun 22 18:10:47 ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.103 port 222: Connection refused Jun 22 18:10:49 jlefler, if you want to help - you can download my precomd C file and help finish the programming Jun 22 18:10:53 jlefler: it's just the first step. Everything else you can do from lin Jun 22 18:11:02 connection refused after reboot, without connecting the USB cable Jun 22 18:11:05 via wifi Jun 22 18:11:16 Tivon: are you sure there are no firewall issues? Jun 22 18:11:27 Tivon, that's better - refused means it's actually running and your pre actively refused it Jun 22 18:11:37 bpadalino, where is the source for that? Jun 22 18:11:56 gaffo, plz hold Jun 22 18:12:13 gaffo, http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/precomd Jun 22 18:12:15 bpadalino|work: Someday I might be able to help out. (I am a developer) Unfortunately, I don't know that I'll have time in the next couple of weeks and I am not yet sure I am keeping the Pre. Jun 22 18:12:36 (Rooting it to enable the "roam only" patch to see if that makes signal usable at my work) Jun 22 18:12:49 gaffo, it uses libusb and i have enough of the protocol reversed to get a working terminal Jun 22 18:12:52 cphelps: Thanks. I'll see if virtualbox wants to play nice today. Jun 22 18:13:04 but i just haven't had the time to really finish it up Jun 22 18:14:25 bpadalino|work: I'll be sure to check out your script. I really appreciate that someone has started a Linux effort and has kept it open source. Jun 22 18:14:34 Does anyone know the mojo function to log a line to /var/log/messages? Jun 22 18:14:42 (er, program, not script) Jun 22 18:14:52 Whoohoo, browser back! Jun 22 18:15:06 Still doesn't load pages though Jun 22 18:15:31 mdklein: dude, how far have you gotten with the download launcher code? Jun 22 18:15:53 connection refused for both wifi & evdo Jun 22 18:16:07 unsure where to go from here Jun 22 18:16:24 Am i understanding this correctly...i haven't heard of ddns before now, but this modification will allow us the ability to access our phone with the same hostname or ip address? Jun 22 18:16:45 tivon, it sounds like your iptables isn't being updated appropriately .. Jun 22 18:16:50 no1leftypitcher: hostname only... your IP address is still subject to change Jun 22 18:16:54 tivon, after you installed everything - did you reboot ? Jun 22 18:17:00 yes Jun 22 18:17:04 interesting Jun 22 18:17:08 oh ok cool Jun 22 18:17:09 no1leftypitcher: ddns = dynamic DNS, basically, a provider that quickly updates DNS records so you can have a static hostname point to a quickly changing IP Jun 22 18:17:11 tivon, does the ps auxw | grep ssh show it running ? Jun 22 18:17:12 connected ssh' before rebooting wifi& evdo Jun 22 18:17:32 cool thanks guys Jun 22 18:17:35 root@castle:/# ps auxw | grep ssh Jun 22 18:17:35 root 1914 0.0 0.2 2692 536 pts/0 S<+ 11:17 0:00 grep ssh Jun 22 18:17:36 cphelps: not super far, just started looking today... going to grab some lunch and poke some more... I just restored a stock browser app so now I have both modified and original running to look at differences Jun 22 18:17:38 root@castle:/# Jun 22 18:17:41 that would mean no, i assume Jun 22 18:17:42 Tivon: you installed the upstart script and chmod'd? Jun 22 18:17:54 yeah seems like it isn't .. check what cphelps is suggesting Jun 22 18:18:03 so then once this is done, what would i do differently to access my phone...say from putty Jun 22 18:18:39 cphelps/bpadalino: last time, when Tivon ran "ls /opt/bin", the directory appeared to be totally missing after that reboot Jun 22 18:18:47 http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 22 18:18:52 searedice: this isn't next time Jun 22 18:18:55 step #13b? Jun 22 18:19:00 searedice: last time rather Jun 22 18:19:04 bpadalino, ugh, they don't support http Jun 22 18:19:09 tivon you tweet as tivon? Jun 22 18:19:11 yes Jun 22 18:19:17 gaffo, who doesn't ? Jun 22 18:19:19 oh - yeah Jun 22 18:19:21 it's git:// Jun 22 18:19:27 Tivon: that's the one Jun 22 18:19:33 tivon: followed. Jun 22 18:19:51 nm just type the hostname in from now on? Sweet! Jun 22 18:19:54 tivon, try ls /opt/bin and see what's there ? Jun 22 18:20:01 mdklein: eating is for the weak Jun 22 18:20:24 root@castle:/# ls /opt/bin Jun 22 18:20:24 ls: /opt/bin: No such file or directory Jun 22 18:20:38 tivon, mkdir /opt/bin Jun 22 18:21:07 bpadalino, we block non-standard ports at work to anywhere not in north america Jun 22 18:21:07 mdklein: I have confirmed that the function in page-assistant.js is the one to hack. Jun 22 18:21:11 yeah Jun 22 18:21:15 created Jun 22 18:21:17 gaffo, ah :\ Jun 22 18:21:22 tivon, ls -l /opt/bin Jun 22 18:21:22 bpadalino, have to tunnel. Jun 22 18:21:25 cool kaerey, whats your username Jun 22 18:21:33 I tweet as michaelpule Jun 22 18:21:48 gaffo, do you know c ? Jun 22 18:21:56 bpadalino, some Jun 22 18:21:59 ah Jun 22 18:22:01 done bp Jun 22 18:22:16 in putty, should it say "root@castle:/var/home/root#"? Jun 22 18:22:36 tivon, this is all very confusing to me Jun 22 18:22:36 type cd / Jun 22 18:22:49 got it Jun 22 18:22:50 will bring you up Jun 22 18:22:51 k Jun 22 18:23:18 that's why there's no /usr <--linux newb Jun 22 18:23:42 lol if its confusing to you imagine being in my brain Jun 22 18:24:25 would the WebOS update likely cause some problems? shouldn't, but I updated my webos after the webdoctor this morning Jun 22 18:24:32 before going through the optware feed process Jun 22 18:24:38 tivon, no - it should be find Jun 22 18:24:42 everything seemed to work fine prior to phone reboot Jun 22 18:24:51 Aye, I updated before going through the optware setup Jun 22 18:25:12 tivon, ls -l /var/opt Jun 22 18:25:58 root@castle:/# ls -l /var/opt Jun 22 18:25:58 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 22 10:57 bin Jun 22 18:25:58 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 22 08:52 doc Jun 22 18:25:58 drwxr-xr-x 6 root root 4096 Jun 22 10:57 etc Jun 22 18:25:58 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 22 08:50 include Jun 22 18:26:00 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 22 10:57 lib Jun 22 18:26:03 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 22 08:50 libexec Jun 22 18:26:05 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 22 08:50 sbin Jun 22 18:26:08 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Aug 22 2008 share Jun 22 18:26:10 drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 22 08:50 var Jun 22 18:26:13 [A[Bsorry Jun 22 18:26:26 . Jun 22 18:26:44 heh Jun 22 18:26:46 whoops Jun 22 18:26:51 http://webos.pastebin.com Jun 22 18:26:52 xD Jun 22 18:27:21 tivon, next time webos.pastebin.com - but it looks ok .. ls -l / | grep opt Jun 22 18:28:10 sorry Jun 22 18:28:16 it's ok Jun 22 18:28:21 cphelps: I mean, I got the browser to download the files, I'm looking at a way to prompt a user to be sure they want to... maybe give them option to open the file afterwards... stuff like that... right now I just hijacked the call into a downloadmanager request Jun 22 18:28:56 mdklein: Rather than using the built in downloading classes? Jun 22 18:28:58 yeah Jun 22 18:29:05 root@castle:/# ls -l / | grep opt Jun 22 18:29:05 drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 22 11:20 opt Jun 22 18:29:13 mdklein: but you did it in page-assistant.js? Jun 22 18:29:15 pastebin 5+ lines? or even small lines Jun 22 18:29:16 yep Jun 22 18:29:41 not sure on the etiquite Jun 22 18:29:57 so why is opt a directory and not a link ? Jun 22 18:30:03 mdklein: Yeah, that works. The question though is, why not just use what they gave us? Jun 22 18:30:27 I really wish I knew the answer to that myself. Jun 22 18:30:36 why would opt be a link? Jun 22 18:30:37 cphelps: plan to, this is just step 1 Jun 22 18:30:47 step 2 I will do after lunch Jun 22 18:30:50 its a directory fuill of programs Jun 22 18:31:17 opt i believe stands for optional Jun 22 18:31:30 mdklein: we shall race :-) Jun 22 18:31:32 optional Jun 22 18:31:34 you installed apps there so they don't override/conflict with the os opnes Jun 22 18:32:00 i see .. i didn't realize y ou mkdir /var/opt and mkdir /opt then mount -o bind /var/opt /opt .. i wonder why Jun 22 18:32:04 instead of just ln -s Jun 22 18:32:08 rwhitby would be the one to answer that Jun 22 18:32:29 bpadalino, looks like you have simple connection (tty) working and some logging? Jun 22 18:32:32 me neither to tell you the truth Jun 22 18:32:38 ok, I think im giong back to the drawing board. Jun 22 18:32:53 ohh Jun 22 18:33:00 because / is not writeable Jun 22 18:33:02 gaffo, well - i have the usbl layer done - but not the pmux stuff Jun 22 18:33:15 so you create the opt folder in /var the you mount it in/opt/ Jun 22 18:33:16 pmux is the app layer that sits atop of the usbl right? Jun 22 18:33:30 gaffo, yeah Jun 22 18:33:43 bkuberek, rootfs_open -w should make the whole thing writable Jun 22 18:33:47 which is step 1 Jun 22 18:33:56 right Jun 22 18:34:23 I don't really know why. I am not expert in unix Jun 22 18:34:28 how do u copy a file from outside the pre into it? in putty Jun 22 18:34:35 it would be nice to understand that though Jun 22 18:34:44 ssh Jun 22 18:34:46 i think i realize now ... Jun 22 18:34:53 http://aplawrence.com/Linux/mount_bind.html - article explains it Jun 22 18:34:56 I'll webdoctor now and start over before it gets too late in the day Jun 22 18:36:31 bpadalino|work: ln -s should work too Jun 22 18:36:47 bind mount is just a little more transparent Jun 22 18:37:16 bpadalino, you doing this mainly on linux or osx? Jun 22 18:37:51 bkuberek was that to me? ssh to copy files onto the pre? Jun 22 18:38:40 gaffo, it works on both Jun 22 18:39:00 mount --bind is undeletable while sym link is Jun 22 18:39:03 gaffo, but i have a mac at home - so mainly on that Jun 22 18:39:21 Tokyo_Ben: scp command. "scp --help" and there are guides online Jun 22 18:39:22 Tokyo_ben Jun 22 18:39:22 gaffo, but i check in a linux vm every time i do some major work Jun 22 18:39:34 Tokyo_ben: yes Jun 22 18:39:47 unless someone knows otherwise Jun 22 18:40:12 I helped someone recover their files from a broken pre and the only way I could figure out waqs SSH Jun 22 18:40:15 bpadalino, so what do you see as the next major task, the pmux? autoconf? testing? Jun 22 18:40:17 bpadalino|work, http://lwn.net/Articles/159077/ explains it better Jun 22 18:40:21 we used scp to transfer the files Jun 22 18:42:10 also, once ssh is set up, for SFTP (if you don't want to use scp): "sudo ipkg-opt install openssh-sftp-server" Jun 22 18:43:36 which, purportedly, will work with dropbear running instead of openssh, though I haven't tried Jun 22 18:44:14 I'm in putty using telnet connection, how do I get ssh set up? Jun 22 18:44:50 Tokyo_Ben: the steps on this page include setting up ssh http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 22 18:45:17 optware feed is the same thing? Jun 22 18:45:18 ok Jun 22 18:45:31 well, you install optware feed so that you can easily install SSH from optware Jun 22 18:46:03 this is why the sdk would be nice.. Jun 22 18:46:14 optware is the best way as of now Jun 22 18:46:20 ok thx Jun 22 18:46:24 its a suit of tools Jun 22 18:47:17 putty gives me no reply to rootfs_open Jun 22 18:48:09 bkuberek: umount /opt, then you can delete Jun 22 18:48:41 stop daemons before umounting Jun 22 18:48:49 eno: delete what? Jun 22 18:49:10 you mean copy? Jun 22 18:49:13 Tokyo_Ben: i get no output from the rootfs_open line either...not really a verbose one :P Jun 22 18:49:22 you said "mount --bind is undeletable" Jun 22 18:49:27 we were trying to copy stuff into the ore or out of the pre Jun 22 18:49:33 ohh Jun 22 18:49:34 also, I don't know these commands. Jun 22 18:49:54 you have to unmount Jun 22 18:50:07 a sym link you can just rm it Jun 22 18:50:29 but how many time do you want to rm it? Jun 22 18:50:33 that's why they do it that way on the instructions, to make sure no one delete it by mistake Jun 22 18:50:48 I don't want to delete it Jun 22 18:50:59 sorry, it would be easier if someone just told me what to type Jun 22 18:51:01 for this step.. Jun 22 18:51:07 it was just a discussion of why they use mount bind instead of a sym link Jun 22 18:51:30 Tokyo_ben: you should be able to follow the steps on that webpage...what is wrong? Jun 22 18:51:45 right, it's more for the benefit of /opt/bin/programs Jun 22 18:52:11 they cannot detect that /opt is actually another place Jun 22 18:52:12 I like that better. kinda makes it a solid Jun 22 18:52:13 I can't enable rw access Jun 22 18:52:17 that's step #1 Jun 22 18:52:42 then I can continue once I get that going Jun 22 18:52:43 Tokyo_Ben: if it doesn't print anything out, that's okay... it doesn't print anything out for me either. Do you get an error message? Jun 22 18:53:17 nope, so it worked? I guess I'll find out on the next step Jun 22 18:53:26 mhm :) Jun 22 18:58:33 I'm getting 404 on the wget for optware ipk file Jun 22 18:58:42 double checked url.. Jun 22 18:59:02 although 1s and ls are almost indistinguishable Jun 22 19:00:11 Tokyo_Ben: browse http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ Jun 22 19:00:30 unstable? Jun 22 19:01:07 stable or unstable, right now makes no diff Jun 22 19:01:12 ok Jun 22 19:02:32 workked, thanks again Jun 22 19:02:54 bpadalino|work, so what's the next major task for it? Jun 22 19:03:09 bpadalino|work, or a good minor one to start with? Jun 22 19:07:00 what's the point of the echo commands in optware setup? Jun 22 19:07:50 gaffo, open the pmux channel and get the "ok" signal back Jun 22 19:08:36 is dropbear vs openssh just preference? Jun 22 19:10:08 bpadalino|work, you mean the terminal one? Jun 22 19:10:21 yes Jun 22 19:10:48 there is a transmission of a pmux request, then a response, then an open tty .. then an ok response .. then y ou get the shell Jun 22 19:10:51 and you can type Jun 22 19:11:06 So I just had a thought for getting an onscreen keyboard. How can we edit the function of the [Sym] button? Has anyone gone looking at what controls the [Sym] button? Jun 22 19:11:15 can someone help me im tryin to run talk.py but i get an error Jun 22 19:11:19 bpadalino, given that the host app is actually taking "shell" style input Jun 22 19:11:22 Quick note: i plan to update the mojo app wiki page i started and commit the hello world app + whatever else to gitorious very soon... just got side tracked this weekend. Jun 22 19:11:34 gaffo, yeah Jun 22 19:11:51 Tokyo_Ben: which echo command? Jun 22 19:11:56 anyone know if the talk.py hack works on Windows vista? Jun 22 19:12:42 bpadalino|work, you thought of breaking any of these levels of functioanlity up into "tests" that can more easily and seperately be run? Jun 22 19:12:51 bpadalino|work, instead of one evolving main Jun 22 19:12:52 ? Jun 22 19:13:01 gaffo, i thought about it - but never separated them out ... Jun 22 19:13:31 gaffo, the whole stack really needs to be thought out and engineered .. it was just a side thing for me currently :( Jun 22 19:13:39 echo commands for comfiguring optware feeds Jun 22 19:14:31 Tokyo_Ben: yeah, they configure optware feeds, what do you suggest? Jun 22 19:14:35 tokyo, they add the optware repositories to your configurations Jun 22 19:14:42 mdklein: Finish eating, chief. I need somes help with this here JS bullshit Jun 22 19:14:43 ok Jun 22 19:15:34 gaffo_work, if you notice tho - main is pretty small, isn't it ? Jun 22 19:15:57 regarding dropbear vs openssh, dropbear is about 100kB smaller Jun 22 19:16:07 oh ok Jun 22 19:16:24 openssh is usually used on bigger platforms, probably more featureful Jun 22 19:16:54 but i've used openssh on nslu2 (266MHz/32MB) for years Jun 22 19:17:05 we i just messed up the user creation, it told me my pw was weak then didn't change it. anyone know how to change the pw now? Jun 22 19:17:11 gaffo_work, yeah - i create a new device init the connection, then receive and process the packet Jun 22 19:17:47 Tokyo_Ben: It prob changed it anyways, but you can use 'passwd' Jun 22 19:19:11 well when it told me it was weak, I typed a different one and it told me they dont match, still says it's weak. alphanumeric not good enough huh Jun 22 19:19:21 bpadalino|work, I might do a better job of that, breaking it up and organizing it more libraryish. The main is small, yes :) Jun 22 19:19:38 gaffo, please do .. i meant to make it into novacom calls and pmux calls .. Jun 22 19:19:51 bpadalino|work, so what's the goal, to be able to use this lib/app to root? or to open the terminal? Jun 22 19:20:00 gaffo, open a terminal .. Jun 22 19:20:02 bpadalino|work, or make a full sdk eventually? Jun 22 19:20:06 gaffo, full sdk in the end Jun 22 19:20:12 can someone help @_@ Jun 22 19:20:13 gaffo, well - full novacom functionality Jun 22 19:20:26 gaffo, novacom has the ability to work with bootie and load/boot memory .. Jun 22 19:20:39 bpadalino|work, yeah, I saw that in the dumps Jun 22 19:20:40 gaffo, it can also execute commands as well as put/get files when linux is running Jun 22 19:28:12 Tokyo_Ben: you can ignore the weak message. It will take it. it just complains Jun 22 19:28:37 bpadalino|work: do you know where the damned Mojo log file is at? Jun 22 19:28:52 i do not Jun 22 19:28:57 sorry Jun 22 19:28:57 :( Jun 22 19:31:26 So I installed lynx on my Pre just to be super 1337, but I can't get it working in ajaxphpterm ... does anyone know if webshell would work better for this kind of thing? Jun 22 19:31:43 (It works fine via ssh) Jun 22 19:32:34 ncurses apps aren't going to work via the web terminals Jun 22 19:33:24 As far as I've been able to tell Jun 22 19:33:33 That's too bad ... that kills my dreams of irssi running as well... Jun 22 19:34:43 sam1am-: it won't be long before you can run a real terminal Jun 22 19:35:11 cphelps: Don't Mojo.Log messages show up in /var/log/messages? Jun 22 19:35:28 jblebrun: not sure. I can check though Jun 22 19:35:47 I know i've gotten my own messages to appear there before Jun 22 19:36:01 But later I had problems re-creating that behavior Jun 22 19:36:38 to note I haven't even been able to get webshell towork reliably under webOS anyway Jun 22 19:37:18 the text is white on the bluebackgroudn but disappears unless you're typing stuff, while you're typing you can see the actual terminal but soon as you stop typing it disappears again Jun 22 19:37:25 jblebrun: This doesn't reallylook like mojo stuff Jun 22 19:38:06 cphelps: Mojo.Log.info() messages go there. Jun 22 19:38:09 I just confirmed it. Jun 22 19:38:29 jblebrun: what about logException? Jun 22 19:39:33 jblebrun: Looks like maybe it is Jun 22 19:39:44 jblebrun: now I just have to figure out what the fuck this means :-) Jun 22 19:39:49 2009-06-22T19:38:57.284423Z [172440] castle user.err LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgrJS} Info: Custom PDF Launch message, Jun 22 19:39:50 Hey, i'm having problems with the amazonstore 3g mod. The app is dim and wont run Jun 22 19:40:24 impo45: There's probably a syntax error in the script Jun 22 19:40:45 I'm not commenting everything out correctly? Jun 22 19:40:57 quite possibly not Jun 22 19:41:48 h Jun 22 19:42:04 impo45: If there's an error, you'll see it in /var/log/messages Jun 22 19:42:19 cat /var/log/messages | grep amazon Jun 22 19:43:00 dumb question... do I need windows to root my palm, why assuming I have the proper version of python installed can't i run talk.py on my linux box Jun 22 19:43:16 Bsims: no drivers for lin yet Jun 22 19:43:18 ok, thank you Jun 22 19:43:48 Bsims: Windows or OS X Jun 22 19:43:49 cphelps: Ah well it shows up as a usb drive, I can sync it like an ipod with amarok Jun 22 19:44:08 * Bsims grumbles well fair enough Jun 22 19:44:35 woe lots of errors Jun 22 19:45:00 * Bsims grins all I really want to do is change the inaudable notification sound, and maybe enable cpu scailing for more battery life Jun 22 19:45:33 Bsims-cpu scaling might not actually improve batt life Jun 22 19:47:02 Hrm really Jun 22 19:47:07 stands to reason it should Jun 22 19:47:24 you could install the windows drivers using a wrapper.... Jun 22 19:47:46 cpu scaling seems to be prone to crashing Jun 22 19:47:50 In my tests thats what happened.. but oh, i found a cuase of battery drain-wifi Jun 22 19:48:12 is it possible to connect to the Pre via a com port from a workstation? When plugged in via USB all I get is the mass storage device. Jun 22 19:48:37 If i have wifi on, and my phone goes into stand by, itll start draning faster. Jun 22 19:48:59 Cant have it on USb-should be on just charge Jun 22 19:49:01 Hrm if I can get notifications to the point I can hear them and a ssh client from the phone to my linux box I'll be happy Jun 22 19:49:32 Also, wifi on when you don't have wifi available does it help bat life or no, I'd think not Jun 22 19:49:41 imop45: wifi turns off when the phone goes into standby Jun 22 19:50:26 Yes, but for some reason, it drains much faster. I see the icon turning back on when i turn the screen on. Jun 22 19:50:42 I leave wifi on all the time, use a hotspot at home and work. don't notice much battery issues unless I keep walking out of the zone Jun 22 19:51:19 You know what, im taking the pre to get fixed unless someone has any ideas to debug and fix it myself Jun 22 19:51:58 whats wrong with yours Jun 22 19:52:08 Battery life issues Jun 22 19:52:32 * Bsims nods Jun 22 19:52:44 I was 100% at 7:00PM yesterday Jun 22 19:52:48 When the phone goes into standy, maybe wifi is hanging up not alowing it to go to sleep Jun 22 19:53:09 imop45: not unless you hosed something Jun 22 19:53:28 You actually have to plug the USB in and tell it to charge in order to keep it from going down Jun 22 19:53:35 No, been an issues since day one Jun 22 19:53:49 imop45: check your router's status page... if the palm goes to sleep, the client should not show as active Jun 22 19:54:03 was down to 60ish at 10ish and half hour on the charger at 11 took it 72 and its now at 65 Jun 22 19:54:12 Hmm, true, then yeah it is going to sleep. Hmm. Jun 22 19:54:52 Bsims-it seems like some of the pre batteries are shortcircuiting, draining themselves. Have sprint check it. Jun 22 19:56:48 I'm in USB mode now but I still don't get a com port or modem to connect to. Jun 22 19:57:09 adns_pre: you have to root your pre and use SSH Jun 22 19:58:14 I'm not trying to get to the root of the OS I want to poke around in the hardware itself if I can connect via a COM port Jun 22 19:58:24 it's a 40-hex bit number .. so we could convert it into a long long .. Jun 22 19:58:27 whoops Jun 22 19:58:54 imop45: Hrm I may do that next weekend, see its a 40 minute drive to find a sprint store Jun 22 20:01:15 adns_pre: If you want to poke at it without rooting it, you're going to have to emulate the novacomm drivers. Jun 22 20:01:42 take a look at talk.py in the rooting instructions. and check out the novacomm drivers and go on from there. Jun 22 20:01:44 imop45 - got a source for that battery info? Jun 22 20:02:24 I need some help getting ssh working Jun 22 20:02:28 adns_pre: it's not going to respond as a comm port -or- as a modem. Jun 22 20:02:54 I finished the tutorial, rebooted the phone but now I can only get in via telnet on localhost Jun 22 20:02:57 Tokyo_Ben: can you be more specific? Jun 22 20:03:24 trying to access via putty with the wifi IP of the phone, times out Jun 22 20:03:41 dropbear or ssh? Jun 22 20:03:59 Yeah, the sprint on the northside (3rd party) checked the batt and said it was bad, it was draining itself. So i took it to the sprint store where i bought the pre (southside corperate store; both have repair services). The one on the southside said that its impossible to test the pre battery-the tools havent arrived. He saw my centro batt in it and said, "Oh, your pre's bricked. Cant use a centro battery." Well after a bit of argu Jun 22 20:04:02 dropbear, it's listening on 8023 Jun 22 20:04:37 so you changed the scripts to have it listen there instead of 222? Jun 22 20:04:46 btw i am in windows 7, rooted it in vm winxp Jun 22 20:05:03 no, that's what it was on before, lemme try 222 Jun 22 20:07:00 so what's the status with the emulator? Jun 22 20:07:00 connection is good, now my pw is rejected Jun 22 20:07:11 well, that's better. Jun 22 20:07:14 it's the one i creating during setup of dropbear right?? Jun 22 20:07:27 it's the SAME ONE you used when you logged in via telnet. Jun 22 20:07:28 Tokyo_Ben: yes, the username and password Jun 22 20:07:37 Tokyo_Ben: didnt know vm xp would work. nice Jun 22 20:07:53 via telnet i was in as root with no pw, at the beginning Jun 22 20:08:25 ahhh. but you said a moment ago "can only get in via telnet." Jun 22 20:08:33 I presumed that ment you COULD log in via telnet Jun 22 20:08:53 yea windows 7's built in virtualization works Jun 22 20:09:26 if my username was invalid would it reject that? Jun 22 20:09:58 Tokyo_Ben: no Jun 22 20:10:00 is it supposed to not display anything when u enter the pw? Jun 22 20:10:04 it only rejects after the password Jun 22 20:10:05 ok.. Jun 22 20:10:51 On step 3 for sign your ipk what exactly does it want me to type? Jun 22 20:11:02 ok linux folk, I've got an old Dell Laptop I'm going to nuke and isntall a linux package on. What should I get to start learning? Jun 22 20:12:17 yea crap im locked out Jun 22 20:13:10 anyone know how to get pico onto webos? Jun 22 20:13:37 sam1am-: you can ipkg-opt nano Jun 22 20:13:44 sam1am-: not sure pico is there Jun 22 20:13:58 I'll give it a try, thanks Jun 22 20:15:01 can I display the users in putty? Jun 22 20:15:16 Ubuntu linux. Great first stepping stone Jun 22 20:15:28 Tokyo_Ben: ls /var/home Jun 22 20:15:42 Tokyo_Ben: it should have created your use home directiory in /var/home Jun 22 20:16:05 ok, heres my amazon store problems and lines all put into a nice package: http://webos.pastebin.com/m636177f6 Jun 22 20:17:05 ok, my users are good and I just changed the pw of root but it's still giving me access denied Jun 22 20:17:45 Tokyo_Ben: don;t fuck with root Jun 22 20:18:14 Tokyo_Ben: in fact, I would nuke your setup and start again, lest you hose something really badly Jun 22 20:18:17 should the pw be empty? Jun 22 20:18:32 Tokyo_Ben: not sure if it's empty or just unset Jun 22 20:18:37 I didn't mess with it just did passwd Jun 22 20:18:46 that's messing with it Jun 22 20:18:59 so i change it back...and? Jun 22 20:19:03 There is a reason people have setup the wiki with specific instructions Jun 22 20:19:09 You do that stuff, and everything works Jun 22 20:19:17 You don't do that stuff in the right order, you get fucked Jun 22 20:19:29 hey, is this correct? if (1 == 1) { Jun 22 20:19:29 if ( (1 == 1) Jun 22 20:19:29 { Jun 22 20:19:34 ok i got it Jun 22 20:19:47 the second iff has mismatched parens, imop45 Jun 22 20:19:48 imop45 Thanks for suggestion. Jun 22 20:19:52 imop45: your code looks fine, but maybe you hosed the formatting? Jun 22 20:20:10 imop45: what program are you using to edit? Jun 22 20:20:12 THe secont one? How do i change it? Jun 22 20:20:13 I know it's annoying for ppl like me to be in here, thanks for the help Jun 22 20:20:13 vi Jun 22 20:20:42 jlefler-what do i need to change? Jun 22 20:20:45 imop45: use nano instead. New users will usually just fuck things up with vi Jun 22 20:20:55 Hey i wanted to put an alternate method for auto podcast downloading on the wiki, how to I gain access? Jun 22 20:21:03 imop45, ignore me Jun 22 20:21:18 I've used vi before in linux Jun 22 20:21:23 imop45, I didn't look at your pastebin..its fine there.. just unusual to have a multi-line if like that Jun 22 20:21:27 imop45, my mistake Jun 22 20:21:44 Ok, so it looks good? Jun 22 20:21:54 imop45: the directions as listing in the wiki work, I've done that mod without any problems Jun 22 20:21:55 let me /sbin/reboot Jun 22 20:22:00 imop45, actually, I take that back. Since the next line of the if is commented out, the next closing ) doesn't get matched Jun 22 20:22:10 imop45: that's not going to help Jun 22 20:23:09 and we make sure it gets incremented by 1 for rx .. Jun 22 20:23:32 Does anyone know off-hand where the touchpanel threshold stuff is? Jun 22 20:23:37 stupid tabs :( Jun 22 20:23:39 hmm, it was like that originally. cp: No, i editted it to show if (blah) instead of if ( (blah) Jun 22 20:24:46 jl, what about the {? Doesnt seem to et closed either Jun 22 20:25:39 if (1 == 1) **{** Delete that? Jun 22 20:25:46 that obviously not a complete code block at the pastebin. I'd suggest you restore the original and rework the mod carefully. (as it looks pretty simple) Jun 22 20:26:01 imop45, Its probably harder to "fix" your code now than to just start over. Jun 22 20:26:32 I only pasted what i needed, lines 416-423 and 446-4something Jun 22 20:28:00 I think i found the problem. I'm rebooting, and if its not fixed then i'll restore and rework it Jun 22 20:28:25 hmm, these { dont need to close, do they? Jun 22 20:28:33 imop45: yes, they do. Jun 22 20:29:11 imop45: the {} determine what is affected by the previous if. (Stuff between { and } get executed if the previous "if" is true) Jun 22 20:30:05 maybe it closes later down the road Jun 22 20:30:32 Still not working. OK restore it is Jun 22 20:30:48 How do i restore a .sav file? Jun 22 20:34:59 do u have to run novaproxy every time you access the pre? Jun 22 20:35:48 once you have SSH setup, you can use that instead of novaproxy Jun 22 20:36:04 in fact, you want to disable dev mode (konami code) once SSH is working Jun 22 20:36:14 so the pre is still listening on same port? Jun 22 20:36:31 can I just use wifi then? Jun 22 20:36:32 it listens to whatever you configure the ssh service as...the website uses 222 Jun 22 20:36:48 I am this (still) |-| close to separating the messaging sound from the rest of the system sounds! Jun 22 20:36:50 the wiki instructions say to use 222, i mean Jun 22 20:37:35 oh wow that works Jun 22 20:37:38 nice Jun 22 20:38:01 Would i do this? cp download-manger.js.sav /usr/palm/appl Jun 22 20:38:02 ications/com.palm.app.amazonstore/app/models/download-manager.js Jun 22 20:38:05 when u move files into the pre, do u generally put it into the media/internal folder? Jun 22 20:38:25 Tokyo_Ben: that's the safest way Jun 22 20:38:31 with usb sync, then manipulate within ssh? Jun 22 20:38:37 ok thanks Jun 22 20:38:53 replacing the bootup logo Jun 22 20:41:28 What are you replacing it with? Jun 22 20:45:31 morning Jun 22 20:45:41 ahoy rwhitby Jun 22 20:46:38 Hey someone should write about changing the boot logo Jun 22 20:46:41 rwhitby: illustrious leader, where are you from? Jun 22 20:50:16 gm rwhitby Jun 22 20:51:25 Hi rwhitby Jun 22 20:52:31 Crap. Anyone know how to get line numbers out of Mojo Exceptions? Jun 22 20:54:58 bpadalino|work: re: why /opt is a bind mount rather than a symlink. it's so that (cd /opt ; cd ..) leaves you in / rather than in /var. Jun 22 20:55:16 rwhitby, understood :) Jun 22 20:55:17 thanks Jun 22 20:56:13 cp -rp com.palm.app.xamazonstore /usr/palm/applications would be correct, right? Jun 22 20:58:46 cphelps: .au, GMT+9:30 Jun 22 20:59:09 rwhitby: thanks, good to know. Jun 22 20:59:32 I hope i dont have 3 applications now. Jun 22 20:59:43 cphelps: although I am no longer young enough to stay up all night here to talk with the people who know their shit when they are on the other side of the planet Jun 22 21:03:14 *Facepalm* Got an iphone user that wants me to change the corporate wireless key as it contains characters that the iphone wont copy and paste. The copy in paste filters the | symbol??? WTF? Jun 22 21:03:17 ok now.. i did cp -rp com.palm.app.amazonstore /usr/palm/applications but it how do i restore com.palm.app.amazonstore? Jun 22 21:03:38 haha funny Jun 22 21:04:40 wow, really? | is filtered in iphone copy/paste ? Jun 22 21:05:17 At least thats what I am getting. I don't have the phone in front of me. That would be nuts. Jun 22 21:05:20 how do i take com.palm.app.amazonstore and replace it with com.palm.app.xamazonstore Jun 22 21:05:47 maybe it's got a shell metacharacter filter in there to stop chaining shell command attacks or something ... Jun 22 21:06:42 imop45: If you've created xamazonstore, you need to change the ID in appinfo.json, as well. Jun 22 21:06:56 imop45: Then both will appear. You can set visible: "false" in the original amazon app, if you want to hide it. Jun 22 21:07:31 Then, send an app rescan command Jun 22 21:08:15 Ok, com.palm.app.amazonstore seems to be the one i screw up. Its useless now, so i want to restore xamazonstore and make it amazonstore Jun 22 21:08:17 Which you can find here: http://predev.wikidot.com/luna-send Jun 22 21:08:32 Get the correct amazonstore from a web doctor image Jun 22 21:08:43 rwhitby: Is someone working on a homebrew catalog yet? Jun 22 21:08:55 xamazonstore is completely untouched Jun 22 21:09:39 its clean, it works. So is there anyway to put it as amazonstore and get rid of the original? Jun 22 21:10:29 imop45: BTW, unless you work for palm you should not be using com.palm. for your application id ... Jun 22 21:10:47 Somehow overwrite amazonstore with xamazonstore Jun 22 21:11:14 Its for the amazon 3g mod... Jun 22 21:11:16 jblebrun: dunno. I'm expecting palm to quickly patch the email an ipk vulnerability, so I'm not gonna spend much effort on it. Jun 22 21:11:41 rwhitby, you think they will ? Jun 22 21:11:56 i suppose it's pretty bad ... someone could install some pretty bad stuff Jun 22 21:12:01 bpadalino|work: absolutely, it's a Windows Internet Explorer grade security problem. Jun 22 21:12:34 rwhitby: it checks to make sure it's signed though, so what's the problem? Jun 22 21:12:35 since it is explicitly disabled in the browser, allowing it in email must be a simple oversight. Jun 22 21:12:48 cphelps: anyone can self-sign Jun 22 21:12:54 including the guy who wants to phish you. Jun 22 21:12:56 rwhitby: it's not explicitly disabled in the browser Jun 22 21:13:26 rwhitby: all downloading is disabled. I've been working on it for hours trying to get their DownloadController to instantiate Jun 22 21:13:44 cphelps: also, a Palm dev in #webos (who, based on his previous discussions in channel is likely to know about these things) was very surprised when told about the email installation vector, and specifically said that it should not do that. Jun 22 21:13:59 +rwh:i messed up the amazonstore, so im just trying to uses the copied one and restore it as the original one Jun 22 21:14:05 (note to "tech" bloggers who got the tethering issue so wrong, the above is *not* a statement from Palm) Jun 22 21:14:26 cphelps: If you don't mind, could you put a few notes about that on the wiki? Make a link from the list item that's in http://predev.wikidot.com/tweak-ideas Jun 22 21:15:18 jblebrun: I'm on it as soon as the fucker actually runs. The setup function is giving me TypeMissmatch errors Jun 22 21:15:30 jblebrun: assumedly it's coming from the controller, but I am not sure yet Jun 22 21:15:44 cphelps: heh, we're at same point I guess Jun 22 21:15:45 I tried passing it the stageController, but that's apparently even worse Jun 22 21:15:51 cphelps: Ok. If you end up not having luck, at least mention what you've tried. Jun 22 21:16:09 mdklein: I just don't know what to pass in order to make it work Jun 22 21:16:47 mdklein: do you think it wants a scene controller instead of a stage controller? Jun 22 21:17:04 setup appears to take no arguments, I'm actually working on the download-controller.js right now Jun 22 21:17:06 rwhitby: The email vector is only needed for installing the catalog without rooting, right? Should a homebrew catalog still be possible, in theory? Jun 22 21:17:18 (I haven't done a dive into the app catalog code yet) Jun 22 21:18:02 jblebrun: sure, anything is possible until Palm changes the bootloader to no longer accept unsigned firmware images. Jun 22 21:18:16 mdklein: I put in a bunch of try-catch areas, and all three fail Jun 22 21:18:27 the controller bombs on the easy access to elements we store handles code Jun 22 21:18:27 The only common object between the 3 sections is the controller object Jun 22 21:18:29 rwhitby: ack, don't say that Jun 22 21:18:41 here's the thing, if this email installation vulnerability is not patched, then it *will* get exploited, and then the bad press will come, and then Palm will be forced to react by changing the bootloader. Jun 22 21:19:21 rwhitby: but running unsigned firmware has nothing to do with it Jun 22 21:19:28 I'd prefer that the user specifically have to go into dev mode, and have sufficient disclaimers that Palm can say they have no security vulnerabilities out of the box, and there not need to shut down dev mode for everyone. Jun 22 21:19:59 destinal_work: actually it does. if you can load unsigned firmware, then you patch out any fixes that Palm does for security vulnerabilities. Jun 22 21:20:02 rwhitby: I'm envisioning "go into dev mode, run this script to install homebrew cat, which also automatically disables dev mode" Jun 22 21:20:20 rwhitby: you can also run anything you want on your PC, it doesn't make your vendor responsible Jun 22 21:20:50 destinal_work: so you think Windows Internet Explorer is a responsible web browser from a security standpoint? Jun 22 21:21:07 (since that's exactly the grade of security vulnerability we're talking about here) Jun 22 21:21:25 rwhitby: microsoft patches vulnerabilities in MSIE. they don't alter your kernel so that it's impossible to run the old version Jun 22 21:21:28 jblebrun: as long as the user is required to go into dev mode at least once, then it's up to them to accept the consequences. Jun 22 21:21:46 rwhitby: let Jun 22 21:21:51 rwhitby: let's not get crazy here Jun 22 21:22:10 destinal_work: you're correct that Palm fixing the bug would be a responsible response from them. Jun 22 21:22:38 rwhitby: how do we feel about downloading and then launching with additional dialogs? Jun 22 21:23:24 cphelps: Like those "unsigned certificate" dialogs that *everyone* pays attention to? ;-) Jun 22 21:23:27 rwhitby: I think people should calm down about the sky falling and giving ultimatums to avoid creating panic which might set the stage for overly harsh responses Jun 22 21:23:30 Yeah, it ends up being your responsibilty for doing the DEV mode, but if you dont do that and an expliot is made where the user just downloaded one file, then its palms responsibilty Jun 22 21:24:01 destinal_work: who's giving ultimatums? Jun 22 21:24:02 If palm wants us to be able to install our own firmware outside of the app catalog they should provide a non-retarded way to do that. Jun 22 21:24:15 either way they should patch the email client. Jun 22 21:24:16 Has the iPhone had any malicious expliots? Jun 22 21:24:23 forgetting about palm, sprint probably doesn't want to deal with thousands of people saying their pre was "bricked" by opening an email link Jun 22 21:24:35 rwhitby: I was talking about the engadget article and something in the wiki, nothing you said specifically Jun 22 21:24:46 er not firmware but apps Jun 22 21:24:47 Imop: Yes http://securityevaluators.com/content/case-studies/iphone/ Jun 22 21:24:51 destinal_work: being able to install an app that has root priviledges through a phishing link without any confirmation is a pretty serious security vulnerability. Jun 22 21:24:52 imop, yesit has .. Jun 22 21:25:04 mdklein: That very first line of the download-controller throws and exception, so we've got to be looking at the wrong controller, eh? Jun 22 21:25:27 destinal_work: ah yeah, all the "tech" blogs will cover this issue with the same accuracy and rationality that they covered the tethering issue Jun 22 21:25:35 rwhitby: I agree completely Jun 22 21:25:44 rwhitby: good point re tethering lol Jun 22 21:25:45 well, if palm pre gets large enough to start having expliots, then its palms fault for not giving security Jun 22 21:26:23 Palm will plug this hole. Guaranteed. Jun 22 21:26:41 Hopefully, they will not feel threatened enough to have to plug developer mode at the same time. Jun 22 21:26:42 You know, its strange, the iphone could kill you in your sleep, and tech bloggers will say, eh, not apples fault Jun 22 21:26:43 imop45: he who has not written vulnerable code may cast the first stone. the question is whether the response is relatively quick and also reasoned (ie fix the vuln, not go after the community) -- I think it will be. Jun 22 21:27:28 destinal_work: I expect their response will be reasonable, unless an alternative app store suddenly springs up and starts to hurt their marketing strategy. Jun 22 21:27:31 cphelps: huh? Jun 22 21:28:32 the lack of sdk has the odd side effect of all the friendly hackers are trying to find exploits, which is a lot better than them staying hidden until there's a zillion pre's in use. Jun 22 21:28:39 "An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." Jun 22 21:28:58 i wonder how long it will take palm to sell 1M pre's .. Jun 22 21:29:07 rwhitby: how can people installing their own apps hurt their marketing strategy? Jun 22 21:29:19 bpadalino: hopefully only as long as it takes to make them :D Jun 22 21:29:29 aubilenon, hopefully Jun 22 21:29:52 destinal_work: dunno - marketing guys don't always see things rationally :-) Jun 22 21:30:29 destinal: if you make it, then whats the problem? Its one perso making for himself, like ripping dvd's to your comp for personal use. It starts being a problem if you start giving it to everyone else Jun 22 21:30:54 imop45: even me putting my own apps onto my site and letting everyone download. how's it a problem? Jun 22 21:30:57 destinal_work: but if that alternative apps store trys to keep such a security vulnerability active (e.g. by telling people to install unsigned firmware which has the vulnerability patched back in), then there's a problem. Jun 22 21:31:00 Imop: The MPAA would argue with you. Jun 22 21:31:01 the PC has had this forever Jun 22 21:31:13 it's only apple that started this war on people running their own code Jun 22 21:31:35 I think that actually encouraging people to use the app catalog really benefits users, for the most part Jun 22 21:31:42 destinal_work: an alternative app store that uses a valid installation method supported by Palm is not a problem in any way - it would be a marketing asset I would expect. Jun 22 21:31:43 Then MPAA can come over to my house and steal my damn computer. I bought the damn DVD, i could smoke it for damn's sake Jun 22 21:32:11 let's not invite the MPAA keyword filtering software in here please ... Jun 22 21:32:12 discoverability is important Jun 22 21:32:15 rwhitby: even an invalid one unsupported by palm doesn't hurt them. :) Jun 22 21:32:17 4:25] (imop45) well, if palm pre gets large enough to start having expliots, then its palms fault for not giving security Jun 22 21:32:29 ok then what is iptables running on the pre? Jun 22 21:32:37 destinal_work: if it's a security vulnerability for non-tech users, it does. Jun 22 21:32:38 whats blocked or whatever on it? Jun 22 21:32:55 ok, like i said also "An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." Jun 22 21:32:57 rwhitby: right, people not upgrading hurts the users, not palm Jun 22 21:33:43 destinal_work: or non-tech people using pre-packaged windows apps to install unsigned rootfs firmware that puts the vulnerability back in simply to be able to install alternative apps Jun 22 21:33:52 microsoft doesn't suffer for people not installing a security patch that prevents a worm infection for instance. the user does Jun 22 21:34:08 destinal_work: microsoft suffers badly in the press for exactly that Jun 22 21:34:12 But in the end microsoft does, b/c it gets a bad rap Jun 22 21:34:23 destinal: microsoft does suffer - their reputation is terrible and a lot of that is security holes that were patched years ago Jun 22 21:34:36 for the vulnerability. not for whether people choose to patch their systems Jun 22 21:34:48 every kiddie out there goes after ms systems since its so vulnerable Jun 22 21:34:49 Palm is trying to recover from looking like a washed out company. THey dont need any problems Jun 22 21:35:02 Funny I was just handed a laptop to install office on and I discover is is running XP with NO service packs... *Cringe* Jun 22 21:35:19 My big fear is that there will be a bunch of returns as July 6th draws near. (Not due to the phone, due to the provider) That would make news and make palm look bad. Jun 22 21:35:21 THe press are stupid, ltm. Jun 22 21:35:27 maybe it doesnt go online Lurking_Grue Jun 22 21:35:34 rwhitby: think about it. if people are going to run unsigned firmware to install apps, there will be an image that can do it securely Jun 22 21:35:51 destinal_work: if it's done securely, no probs. Jun 22 21:35:53 Lurking_Grue, i asked some friends to try the copy/paste with | .. and it looks like the paste works but when you copy you need to make sure to include past the | as it normally stops there and you need to extend it Jun 22 21:35:58 Noah: It isn't going to now. Thing this is getting updates stat. :) Jun 22 21:36:09 yeah Jun 22 21:36:30 Bp: Ah... I thought it might be user error as I cant believe apple would filter copy paste. Jun 22 21:36:37 destinal_work: that is why I was so adamant that our basic rooting instructions could not leave telnet running and must use ssh Jun 22 21:36:41 even the iphone exploit people used to jailbreak their phones back inthe day patched the vuln :) Jun 22 21:36:43 THe press takes stories, and deforms them into nasty nonhuman POS Jun 22 21:36:51 any white-hat hacking must leave the device in a secure state. Jun 22 21:37:00 i am a mechanic and most computer based alignment machines NEVER get updates or go online Jun 22 21:37:09 the community can be smart Jun 22 21:37:51 destinal_work: yep, it is. but it still needs to know how not to be dumb :-) Jun 22 21:37:55 Yeah, there's no point in hacking the phone to make it better if its left extremely vulnerable. Its like breaking your legs to be taller Jun 22 21:38:10 Noah: yeah in this case it is a laptop for a graphic artist... I doubt she doesn't take it on line. Jun 22 21:38:19 ok Jun 22 21:38:41 What of vista SP2? I havent noticed any performance changes Jun 22 21:38:49 destinal_work: as long as the community realises that the current email installation vector *is* a security vulnerability, then the community will be smart about it. Jun 22 21:38:59 I guess palm forcing updates is a good thing concidering end users Jun 22 21:39:11 don't update. Jun 22 21:39:12 imop45: that's completely off-topic, please discuss elsewhere. Jun 22 21:39:16 Haha!!! Yeah! Amazon store is working again!! Jun 22 21:39:24 rwhitby: agreed Jun 22 21:40:15 As much as I like how open this phone is... I think its going to get hacked in a bad way. Jun 22 21:41:24 Lurking_Grue: I do too, and I'm trying to make sure that the smart hackers do things in such a way that non-tech people are drawn towards the good hacks before they go to the dark side. Jun 22 21:41:30 Lurking_Grue: we have to watch out, that kind of FUD (associating openness with vulnerability) is dangerous Jun 22 21:41:30 Hmm, kinda. That MS that was going on a few months back, that was even in the news, yet ppl still got it. Also, who opens links for "You've won $125,00!" and downloads the attachments? People do it Jun 22 21:41:32 could never understand why some one wants to hack a phone Jun 22 21:41:32 bpadalino: thinks the cut and paste was user error ;) Jun 22 21:41:45 closed phones can be just as vulnerable or more so Jun 22 21:41:57 destinal_work: agreed Jun 22 21:42:05 Lurking_Grue, agreed Jun 22 21:42:45 noahbody: smartphones are very important to black hats. since smartphones store all your personal information that can then be used for social engineering or idenitity theft. Jun 22 21:42:56 true Jun 22 21:43:02 the fact that it can be modified and run unsigned firmware is a large part of why I bought this phone, and I'm a security professional Jun 22 21:43:06 Dest: Look at the installer over email. That may be a future exploit. It is important to keep a watch on that sort of thing. Jun 22 21:43:19 i dont keep real important stuff on mine Jun 22 21:43:31 thats what the encrypted laptop is for Jun 22 21:43:40 the point is windows and linux can be modified too but that doesn't make them more likely to get hacked Jun 22 21:43:59 noahbody: paris hilton is not as security conscious as you, unfortunately. Jun 22 21:44:07 lol Jun 22 21:44:12 I am sure iphone is looking like a good install base for things like botnets already. I bet it will happen as phone are going to be able to grab all sorts of info in mass. Jun 22 21:44:16 so let's try to avoid encouraging draconian controls that don't add more security but restrain their users Jun 22 21:44:24 destinal_work: absolutely Jun 22 21:45:43 I'm all for a user being able to make their phone more vulnerable if they really want to, that's choice and freedom, but as a community we should push good mechanisms that don't make them vulnerable, as rwhitby was suggesting Jun 22 21:46:21 I have a bluetooth exploit on my ubuntu. I can grab all info, make phone calls, use their SMS, etc Jun 22 21:46:23 The best way to deal with this is good defaults so the masses are not vulnerable to encourage mass hacks. Jun 22 21:47:07 Lurking_Grue: very true, let it be hardened out of the box but reconfigurable by individual users if they want, that's generally a solid approach Jun 22 21:47:09 that's why I'm advocating Palm fix this email installation vector, but keep all else untouched. Jun 22 21:47:09 time to go home finally Jun 22 21:47:12 imop: Con artists would use smart phones to exploit peoples phones in crowded locations. Force them to call 900 numers. Jun 22 21:47:17 RIM, PALM OS, WINMO, they all have where you can download from the browser Jun 22 21:47:51 imop45: yes, but the apps do not run as root on an underlying Linux platform. Jun 22 21:48:00 They dont need a smart phone, that bluetooth program i have sends a message out to all phones with bluetooth on Jun 22 21:48:10 Hmm, and these can, i see. Jun 22 21:48:21 rwhitby: on windows they often are Jun 22 21:48:50 Imop: I saw examples where they had a linux based phone as it was easier to conceal. Jun 22 21:48:51 i cannot move files to my pre over sftp Jun 22 21:48:57 im using cyberduck client Jun 22 21:49:01 im on mac Jun 22 21:49:13 does anyone know how to correct this? Jun 22 21:49:25 Aaron_: are you sure that you have provided the correct startup command? Jun 22 21:49:28 it's generally, if you install bad apps from people you don't trust, you can be taken advantage of, I think a big warning about installing and a cancel box, as well as validating the certificate and warning if it's self-signed might be a good approach Jun 22 21:49:31 yes Jun 22 21:49:33 i can log in Jun 22 21:49:38 i mean i can connect Jun 22 21:49:40 Oh, you mean using a smartphone to xpliot other phones? Jun 22 21:49:58 Aaron_: you have to set the phone to RW Jun 22 21:50:03 and i can get files off the phone Jun 22 21:50:12 Aaron_: mount -o remount,rw / Jun 22 21:50:12 set it to rw in term? Jun 22 21:50:24 Yep Jun 22 21:50:28 do i close term after or leave it open? Jun 22 21:50:45 leave it opne so you can set it back to ro later Jun 22 21:50:47 Imop: Yeah, they even showed it on the show the real hustle. Jun 22 21:51:20 i just used that bluetooth to mess around with ppl. I saw something on the news about bluetooth hacking, so i ent and downloaded the programs ltm Jun 22 21:51:22 Imop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZRdnQ4g4NQ Jun 22 21:51:29 with my friends** Jun 22 21:51:34 ok let me see if this works Jun 22 21:52:30 Aaron_: it only doesn't work when you SFTP over bluetooth. That's the only time I've had issuyes Jun 22 21:52:35 WEll, i dont know about you, but when i see these things on the news, etc, it go and find out how to do it Jun 22 21:53:24 imop45: me too (but then I work in the security field) Jun 22 21:53:47 Yeap, blue-jackr is one of the programs. ltm, like with anti-drug things, they show you how to get drugs, how to use them, etc! ltm! Jun 22 21:54:27 if only everyone took efforts to educate themselves on how this stuff worked they could make better choices on security (but most people won't, as with any education) Jun 22 21:55:00 destinal: It's too complex and dull for most people. Jun 22 21:55:02 works great Jun 22 21:55:04 thanks guys Jun 22 21:55:34 Lurking_Grue: in some ways it takes a certain mindset to find it fun / interesting Jun 22 21:56:50 wb Sargun Jun 22 21:56:55 destinal: Guess that is why Hollywood has done such a bad job of hacking movies. "You are going to hack the gibson??" Jun 22 21:57:01 let me plead again for palm not to kill off the community with crypto bootloaders and locking out dev mode... please, oh palm-people, or whatever you call them... :) Jun 22 21:57:29 didn't we make a press release or something today about this? Jun 22 21:57:31 Dest: Don't think that is in palm's dna. Jun 22 21:57:48 oh, was there one? if so I didn't see it Jun 22 21:57:54 Well, sometimes it makes the problem worse. EXample: "It seems that people have been going to the Chase ATM on 29th and May Ave and stealing money out from the left-handside off it under the Visa logo. Some how a large crack was made there. It is unknown when Chase will get this repaired." Wth do you think people are going to do?? Go there and try to get some free money Jun 22 21:58:14 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2349113,00.asp Jun 22 21:58:27 destinal: "People of the Palm" Jun 22 22:00:14 cdm: cool, thanks. I think there was a lot of fear that there might be overreaction to the research into installing IPK's from emailed URL's. A lot of us have worked with the iphone platform so are once-bitten, twice-shy, as it were. :) Jun 22 22:00:27 cdm: it's cool to deal with a phone platform that isn't dealing with its users in a heavy-handed way Jun 22 22:00:55 But Apple hs shown themselves as abusive lovers Jun 22 22:01:10 Whats up with the app store staying at only 30 apps? Jun 22 22:01:13 cdm, there was a press release saying that the community's efforts are nowhere as cool as the official ones Jun 22 22:01:20 destinal_work: although cool handed would have been to leave the download manager in place for the browser Jun 22 22:02:07 Deos the palm deep sleep, like the PALM OS? Jun 22 22:02:13 cdm: can you confirm whether the email installation vulnerability will be patched? Jun 22 22:02:21 oh oh -- I speak nothing Jun 22 22:02:37 only repeat stuff that has already been put out there, etc. Jun 22 22:02:41 cdm: only public info, I get it, no worries. :) Jun 22 22:02:51 cdm: ok, no probs. thanks. Jun 22 22:03:10 hey guys im trying to install sudo and it says permission denied Jun 22 22:03:13 Destin: Maybe a bribe will give cdm more incentives Jun 22 22:03:20 * rwhitby still asserts that Palm will patch this one ASAP. Jun 22 22:03:45 cdm: it's cool that palm folks are here at all and says a lot about the company IMO Jun 22 22:03:56 or the people who work there Jun 22 22:04:16 rwitby: palms aware, so if they do or dont patch it it'll reveal about future patches Jun 22 22:04:35 can someone please help me ? Jun 22 22:04:39 imop45: yeah, but be aware of QA cycle time for OTA updates, so it may not be in the very next one Jun 22 22:05:18 Right, but either way, action or no ation speak the same for finding out how palm deals with things. Jun 22 22:05:18 (i.e. the next OTA update you see is very likely to have been frozen more than a week ago. Jun 22 22:05:34 (Frozen?) Jun 22 22:05:45 freezered Jun 22 22:05:51 functionality frozen, passed to testing and QA and release packaging. Jun 22 22:05:51 congealed Jun 22 22:06:01 Ah, i see. Jun 22 22:06:22 bbl Jun 22 22:06:29 imop45: and when you're forcing updates on hundreds of thousands of devices, you don't skimp on those QA processes ... Jun 22 22:06:57 Yeah, no kidding. itll just be better not to have the update at all Jun 22 22:07:27 (which is also why we're being careful with what we're doing here, to reduce the risk of our stuff causing an OTA update problem to as small as we can make it.) Jun 22 22:07:41 I really wonder what hey're update cycle will be. I know with cowon, its about every 3-5 weeks, which is really exciting Jun 22 22:07:49 hey guys can someone help me real quick why does it say permission denied when i go to install sudo? Jun 22 22:08:00 StrengthFreak: are you logged in as root? Jun 22 22:08:10 im logged in oputty yea Jun 22 22:08:23 should i log in threw telnet ? Jun 22 22:08:23 type: whoami Jun 22 22:08:27 im new to lenux :P Jun 22 22:08:29 ok Jun 22 22:08:30 if so, then use webos.pastebin.com to show us the full log of what you have done so far, what you are tring to do, and tell us what you are expecting to happen. Jun 22 22:08:44 no, not telnet Jun 22 22:09:05 my username comes up Jun 22 22:09:06 sudo su - should work Jun 22 22:09:14 Ok, type sudo su - Jun 22 22:09:29 and your password Jun 22 22:09:36 it says sudo not found Jun 22 22:09:39 k Jun 22 22:09:46 sudo -i su -l Jun 22 22:09:56 (people always forget those options) Jun 22 22:10:12 Whats those options means? Jun 22 22:10:37 StrengthFreak: did you forget to do step 18 of http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository ? Jun 22 22:10:55 imop45: it means use root's environment, and therefore sets up the path correctly. Jun 22 22:11:01 yea Jun 22 22:11:12 im trying to install sudo though step 12 Jun 22 22:11:13 no, the -1 Jun 22 22:11:26 imop45: what I said Jun 22 22:11:31 * sugardave remembers why he likes to use 'su -' and then be REALLY careful. Jun 22 22:11:50 ok ltm :) Jun 22 22:12:03 StrengthFreak: use /opt/bin/sudo (or /opt/sbin/sudo - I forget which) then Jun 22 22:12:15 kk ill try them both Jun 22 22:12:37 Shouldnt he be using telnet, as the root user? Jun 22 22:12:53 im using putty now Jun 22 22:13:26 hey Jun 22 22:13:27 StrengthFreak: since you skipped steps in the instructions, I should really be telling you to use the webOS Doctor and start from scratch again .... ;-) Jun 22 22:13:39 does anyone know how you can turn the LED on without a hsell script? Jun 22 22:13:43 Did you log in under ssh or telnet? Jun 22 22:13:47 ssh Jun 22 22:13:57 Ok, go back into telnet Jun 22 22:14:02 ok Jun 22 22:14:13 jclusso: if they did, it should be on the wiki. Jun 22 22:14:50 You dont have any privileges in the unpriviledged account, so you cant install sudo Jun 22 22:14:52 hmm for some reason i cant connect to telnet Jun 22 22:14:58 crap... Jun 22 22:15:22 my phone is on wifi and connected to the computer Jun 22 22:16:35 Well... log back into your username and password Jun 22 22:17:03 on ssh? Jun 22 22:17:13 yes, if telnet wont work Jun 22 22:17:16 k Jun 22 22:17:40 kk done Jun 22 22:18:11 try sudo -s Jun 22 22:18:31 still nothing Jun 22 22:18:33 ? Jun 22 22:19:10 didn't he said he got permission denied trying to install sudo? Jun 22 22:19:23 sudo not found Jun 22 22:19:24 he needs su - and the root password Jun 22 22:19:31 su - Jun 22 22:19:43 /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install sudo Jun 22 22:19:57 or something close to that Jun 22 22:20:20 (null) permission denied Jun 22 22:20:36 run talk.py again to enable root from telnet again, then do step 12 as root Jun 22 22:20:39 and actually you're prlby going to have to rerun the python script to get telnet running again because root doesn't have a password Jun 22 22:21:46 and if you disabled developer mode you'll need to reenable it. Jun 22 22:21:47 ok im in root Jun 22 22:22:07 ok, now do step 12 Jun 22 22:22:21 i enabled developer mode it said reset and the phone restarted.. does that mean im in developer mode it sure looks the same? Jun 22 22:22:22 ok Jun 22 22:22:27 then do the /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install sudo Jun 22 22:22:54 and the set up for sudo (visudo) you need to finsih the rooting procedure Jun 22 22:22:56 Yes, what DEV MODE does is just turn off some firewalls. thats it Jun 22 22:23:07 and start novacomd so you can run talk.py Jun 22 22:23:23 pullingj-he already did all that Jun 22 22:23:26 it says permission denied again Jun 22 22:23:34 whoami Jun 22 22:23:40 youre root@castle? Jun 22 22:23:46 my username comes up Jun 22 22:23:53 o0 i should logged in as root right Jun 22 22:23:54 I tought you were in as root? Jun 22 22:23:55 after you reboot with developer mode enabled, run talk.py again Jun 22 22:24:00 sry Jun 22 22:24:02 1 sec Jun 22 22:24:04 then telnet in to your wifi address Jun 22 22:24:08 you're basically starting over Jun 22 22:24:09 ok, go in through telnet Jun 22 22:24:59 ok done Jun 22 22:25:08 i installed sudo it said ! :P Jun 22 22:25:44 ok, goodie. See on step 13 it says to log in as your user, not step 11 :) Jun 22 22:25:56 now finish the instructions, next should be visudo Jun 22 22:26:44 yea Jun 22 22:26:54 kk thx for the help guys apprecaite it!!!! Jun 22 22:27:15 no prob. But tips are appreciated :) Jun 22 22:28:03 ok got to go. bye bye Jun 22 22:28:03 StrengthFreak: actually, wiki updates so that the next person does not get into the same situation are even more appreciated, and stick around so that you can help the next guy. Jun 22 22:28:40 lata.. Jun 22 22:28:43 +rwhitby: No, tips! Jun 22 22:29:06 yea ill help as i can Jun 22 22:29:07 Having anyprobs strengthfreak? Jun 22 22:29:21 i dont seem to be i do have a lot of steps left tho lol Jun 22 22:29:37 ok, the visudo stumbled me Jun 22 22:30:04 oh, and dropbear is recommended btw Jun 22 22:30:11 i kind of feel like that the rooting steps should be like a test. because the level of knowledge required to complete them is low, but that knowledge is required to do anything once you get access to your phone Jun 22 22:30:41 i installed ssh :/ Jun 22 22:30:45 Yeah, like stepping stones Jun 22 22:31:04 Hmm, what step are you on? Jun 22 22:31:15 18 Jun 22 22:31:23 if you wanted to bypass the activation would the device need to be rooted first? Jun 22 22:31:30 but if we baby someone through the entire process, they stand a very good chance of screwing up something that'll leave them with an expensive paperweight Jun 22 22:31:31 mkdir /etc/profile.d/ Jun 22 22:31:34 that 1 Jun 22 22:31:50 Like me. excet i got mine fixed Jun 22 22:32:22 well continue then. Jun 22 22:32:50 Hey, who changed the information on the wiki, about the differences between dropbear and openSHH? Jun 22 22:33:12 nvm found it Jun 22 22:33:20 StrengthFreak, did you do the echo $myuser sudoers stuff in step 12? that's very important Jun 22 22:33:42 rwhitby: How's the patch stuff going with pEEF? Jun 22 22:33:53 jblebrun: haven't heard from him Jun 22 22:33:57 and since you did this in too parts, $myuser prbly wasn't defined still Jun 22 22:34:01 step 12 he did prefectly. The only prob is that he logged out of root before he should have Jun 22 22:34:15 cat /opt/etc/sudoers and verify your username is listed on the last line Jun 22 22:34:24 ah Jun 22 22:34:52 ok im on step 20 restart device O_o Jun 22 22:34:56 I personally think anyone who skips steps needs to use the Doctor and start again. That way they will learn to follow carefully written instructions which have no steps which can be left out ... ;-) Jun 22 22:35:13 StrengthFreak, verify your username is on the last line of /opt/etc/sudoers before you reboot Jun 22 22:35:23 k Jun 22 22:35:27 So all id good. THats what was stumbling him, he logged into his username prematurely and then tried to install sudo Jun 22 22:35:29 ie while you are logged in as root still type: cat /opt/etc/sudoers Jun 22 22:35:51 +rwhitby-it was just a small error thats all Jun 22 22:36:23 you should see something like: pullingj ALL=(ALL) ALL Jun 22 22:36:26 on the last line Jun 22 22:36:37 I had a quick question about visudo if someone wouldn't mind helping me out Jun 22 22:36:55 go ahead Jun 22 22:37:26 no i dont see my username and i got this message in the beginning Jun 22 22:37:27 # This file MUST be edited with the 'visudo' command as root. Jun 22 22:37:27 # Failure to use 'visudo' may result in syntax or file permission errors Jun 22 22:37:27 # that prevent sudo from running. Jun 22 22:37:53 when I try ln -s /opt/bin/visudo /usr/local/bin/visudo Jun 22 22:38:05 I get this error msg no such file or directory Jun 22 22:38:06 * rwhitby adds a big warning to the top of http://predev.wikidot.com/adding-the-ipkg-repository Jun 22 22:38:28 or more specifically ln: /user/local/bin/visudo: No such file or directory Jun 22 22:38:46 chafedbm: usr, not user Jun 22 22:39:11 10-4 lemme try that real quick Jun 22 22:39:14 StrengthFreak, do stop 12 everything after # configure portion Jun 22 22:39:39 sorry guys I feel dumb :) Jun 22 22:39:48 ok i have a question you know how they go by lines, do i press enter after each line or after the whole few lines? Jun 22 22:39:53 long day... Jun 22 22:40:07 i been after each line Jun 22 22:40:11 thanks rwhitby Jun 22 22:40:16 StrengthFreak, you should be able to cut and paste. but each line is a different command Jun 22 22:40:23 oh ok good Jun 22 22:40:23 chmod Jun 22 22:40:33 echo stuff >> filename Jun 22 22:40:34 chmod Jun 22 22:40:42 chmod changes permissions Jun 22 22:40:53 echo stuff >> filename appends stuff to the end of filename Jun 22 22:41:20 echo stuf > filename would have overwritten filname with stuff (DONT DO THIS RIGHT NOW) Jun 22 22:41:38 and check out the basic unix commands wiki page Jun 22 22:41:54 http://predev.wikidot.com/basic-linux-use Jun 22 22:42:16 and if vi messes with your mind, just do /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano Jun 22 22:42:34 and then substitute vi with nano whenever editing a file is required Jun 22 22:43:04 ok step 12 done Jun 22 22:43:08 and i installed nano Jun 22 22:43:22 so cat /opt/etc/sudoers shows your username now on the last line? Jun 22 22:43:25 nano messes with my mind .... Jun 22 22:43:28 let me try Jun 22 22:44:11 im in root right now it says root@castle Jun 22 22:44:12 because I prbly steered you wrong because you prbly didn't do export MYUSER=yourusername this boot Jun 22 22:44:29 * rwhitby bbl Jun 22 22:44:30 i did that yesturday Jun 22 22:44:37 probally have to do it again right Jun 22 22:44:44 right doesn't survive reboots Jun 22 22:44:53 and the lines i told you to do depend on them Jun 22 22:45:06 ok Jun 22 22:45:14 im doing that step now Jun 22 22:45:16 so what is the last line in /opt/etc/sudoers Jun 22 22:46:10 Is there a way to sign a already created ipk file? Jun 22 22:46:21 Templarian, i'm sure there is Jun 22 22:46:37 if we know how it'd be in the wiki Jun 22 22:46:44 ALL =(ALL) ALL Jun 22 22:46:55 darn it Jun 22 22:47:03 PullingJ: nothing there yet... the actual developers want this to work also hehe. Jun 22 22:47:06 when i put my username it says its in use Jun 22 22:47:16 should i just pick a different name ? Jun 22 22:47:23 you need to edit that file and addyour username to the begining of the line Jun 22 22:47:28 no your username is fine Jun 22 22:47:36 it's because the environment variable wasn't set Jun 22 22:47:41 oh Jun 22 22:47:42 have you used vi yet? Jun 22 22:47:47 nope Jun 22 22:47:55 type visudo Jun 22 22:48:00 you should get something strange Jun 22 22:49:00 at the bottom of the page it should say /opt/etc/sudoers.tmp 1/xx xx% Jun 22 22:49:05 how many is 1/xx ? Jun 22 22:49:35 actually just type G Jun 22 22:49:37 capital G Jun 22 22:49:41 k Jun 22 22:49:49 g not found Jun 22 22:49:58 visudo first Jun 22 22:50:29 >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 31 <<< Jun 22 22:50:29 >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 32 <<< Jun 22 22:50:29 >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 33 <<< Jun 22 22:50:29 >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 34 <<< Jun 22 22:50:29 visudo: parse error in /opt/etc/sudoers near line 31 Jun 22 22:50:30 visudo: no valid sudoers sources found, quitting Jun 22 22:50:39 thats the msg Jun 22 22:50:40 wow Jun 22 22:50:41 StrengthFreak, use an editor Jun 22 22:51:03 StrengthFreak, cut and paste your sudoers file to the pastebin Jun 22 22:51:32 im sorry how do i do that? Jun 22 22:51:39 er, a pastebin Jun 22 22:51:47 cat /opt/etc/sudoers Jun 22 22:51:55 then copy everything to clipboard Jun 22 22:52:10 kk Jun 22 22:52:11 go to http://webos.pastebin.com and paste it in submit and paste the url to the channel Jun 22 22:52:28 basically avoid pasting 34 lines of crap to the channel Jun 22 22:53:45 ok did it Jun 22 22:54:06 paste the url pastebin gives you Jun 22 22:54:23 hey amigos I am at step 20 of the rooting process (rebooting the device). Would yall recommend I reboot it from the CLI or doing a soft reset with volume button? Jun 22 22:54:59 chafedbm: reboot from the CLI works fine Jun 22 22:55:01 they do the same thing Jun 22 22:55:05 k thanks Jun 22 22:55:14 you get a clean shutdown either way Jun 22 22:55:22 gotcha Jun 22 22:56:21 hmm they didnt give me a url, i put in strengthfreak as my domain Jun 22 22:56:38 paste your crap and then hit send Jun 22 22:56:43 then paste the url you end up at Jun 22 22:57:09 http://strengthfreak.pastebin.com/d4490a717 Jun 22 22:57:33 ok, here's what you need to do. Jun 22 22:58:27 http://strengthfreak.pastebin.com/m36a8d1dc Jun 22 22:58:36 replace strengthfreak with your username Jun 22 22:58:56 copy that from the bottom frame of the url i pasted into your clipboard Jun 22 22:59:30 ok then paste it in root? Jun 22 22:59:34 no Jun 22 22:59:40 you need to paste it into a new file Jun 22 22:59:43 so Jun 22 22:59:48 cd /opt/etc Jun 22 23:00:06 cat > sudoers.new Jun 22 23:00:10 PASTE CLIPBOARD Jun 22 23:00:15 CTRL-D Jun 22 23:01:06 break break ctrl-d obviously means push control-d not type ctrl-d Jun 22 23:01:28 do i type PASTE CLIPBOARD Jun 22 23:01:48 no, pastre your clipboard. did you already type it? Jun 22 23:02:10 i did it and it exited Jun 22 23:02:25 not type cat sudoers.new Jun 22 23:02:37 you should see a 32 line file that looks like this: http://strengthfreak.pastebin.com/m36a8d1dc Jun 22 23:02:44 edited for your username Jun 22 23:02:57 i have to get back into telnet Jun 22 23:03:03 it exited for some reason Jun 22 23:03:13 is that normal? Jun 22 23:03:18 i held down ctrld Jun 22 23:03:21 yeah Jun 22 23:03:28 if you held down ctrl-d that's normal Jun 22 23:03:42 ctrl-d is end of file and sending it to the shell exitsd it Jun 22 23:03:46 im connecting to telnet and its saying SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_5.2 Jun 22 23:04:01 why would it say ssh when im trying to connect to telnet Jun 22 23:04:13 you're telneting to your ssh port Jun 22 23:04:26 o0oo Jun 22 23:04:44 kk Jun 22 23:04:45 im back in Jun 22 23:04:54 cd /opt/etc Jun 22 23:04:56 cat sudoers.new Jun 22 23:05:09 and we're destroying the channel Jun 22 23:05:17 join #pullingj Jun 22 23:05:30 anyone tried the emulator here? Jun 22 23:07:08 which emulator ? Jun 22 23:10:00 only the folks w/ a legit copy of the sdk have the emulator Jun 22 23:10:04 afaik Jun 22 23:10:50 hemna, there was somthing about pulling an image out of the doctor and running it in qemu Jun 22 23:10:59 hemna, on the wiki Jun 22 23:11:09 yeah - that didn't get very far ... Jun 22 23:11:27 i couldn't get qemu to boot very far (read: at all) with the image Jun 22 23:12:00 :( Jun 22 23:14:08 i know .. very sad panda :( Jun 22 23:14:58 is qemu supposed to emulate linux hardware? Jun 22 23:15:47 it emulates different targets .. arm, mips, sparc, etc Jun 22 23:16:04 the maemo people supposedly use it for emulating their platform Jun 22 23:16:09 as do the beagle board people Jun 22 23:16:24 but i couldn't get any cortex-a8 platform to actually boot Jun 22 23:16:28 does it just not have the hardware it needs to boot? Jun 22 23:16:29 aah Jun 22 23:17:39 afaik there's a separate fork for beagle board Jun 22 23:18:08 there's a fork on google code for beagle .. and that points to the maemo port .. Jun 22 23:18:11 which has even more support Jun 22 23:18:22 http://code.google.com/p/qemu-omap3/ Jun 22 23:18:25 right Jun 22 23:20:46 anyone know how we can get the emulator for webos Jun 22 23:21:03 i read something about qemo on the wiki but it didnt make sence Jun 22 23:21:40 :) Jun 22 23:25:47 for some reason I'm not getting alerts for my incoming txts any more Jun 22 23:26:14 Howdy Jun 22 23:27:54 yeah, qemu seems like a dead end Jun 22 23:27:55 :( Jun 22 23:33:44 ipv6 Jun 22 23:35:23 ipv4 Jun 22 23:35:46 gah... I even undid my soundsandalerts hack, and I still can't get text's to alert me... Jun 22 23:35:54 not even an icon on the alert bar Jun 22 23:36:21 trying to figure out why my service doesn't work until you call a method from it in root Jun 22 23:36:24 doesn't make sense Jun 22 23:38:16 any idea's? Jun 22 23:38:39 it doesn't even show up in dbus-util --list until i do a method call in root Jun 22 23:38:40 then it will Jun 22 23:39:01 maybe the other services are pre-loaded and yours isn't bein preloaded? Jun 22 23:39:28 pregame, i can only thing you need to register your service somehow .. Jun 22 23:39:36 any ideas on why I don't get alerted for incoming texts? :) Jun 22 23:40:07 typo on the sound file ? Jun 22 23:43:02 twobitsprite: are you running a completely stock pre? Jun 22 23:50:38 where is that flipflop beach bum Jun 22 23:51:16 bpadalino: I would think its being registered Jun 22 23:51:34 if i run a command from the pre it wont work until i run a command from root Jun 22 23:51:40 its weird Jun 22 23:51:41 hrm Jun 22 23:51:43 You guys think it would be useful to write a how to use cygwin for that email thing? Jun 22 23:51:57 pregame, so doing a dbus-util --list doesn't show it ? Jun 22 23:52:05 not until i run a method from root Jun 22 23:52:05 (since openssl and binutil isn't enabled by default) Jun 22 23:52:09 Templarian: absolutely - go forit Jun 22 23:52:18 but where would I put it? Jun 22 23:52:31 pregame, what happens if you dbus-util --capture while you run the command as root? Jun 22 23:52:36 maybe it's registering at that point ? Jun 22 23:52:53 once i do palm://com.pregame.prelease/version {} it will show in the list Jun 22 23:52:53 its CRAZY Jun 22 23:53:01 NUTS! Jun 22 23:53:38 hmm... anyone get filezilla to work on their pre? Jun 22 23:53:43 its weird that the same command works for root but not the pre Jun 22 23:53:48 I followed the instructions on the wiki for sftp... Jun 22 23:53:54 but filezilla keeps saying it timed out Jun 22 23:55:06 looks like you guys had a busy weekend Jun 22 23:55:36 nm... bad typo Jun 22 23:56:23 WAIT A SEC Jun 22 23:56:32 bpadalino, turns out new people can't edit the page oh well I tried. hehe. Jun 22 23:59:21 * konsoleX has a pregasm Jun 22 23:59:33 If someone can edit that page I can tell them the steps for doing it with cygwin on windows. Jun 23 00:00:03 unless gnutar is the same thing then nvm. Jun 23 00:02:43 Templarian: the "tar" in cygin is gnutar Jun 23 00:02:48 cygwin* Jun 23 00:03:01 eno: can we make ipkg-opt always use /opt/bin/update-alternatives, irrespective of path? Jun 23 00:03:38 twobitsprite: yea I figured it out. Jun 23 00:03:54 Templarian: I've /msg'd you the wiki pw - if you create a wikidot account with your own password, then you can use that password to join the predev wiki Jun 23 00:05:54 hmm.... it seems I some how overwrite the back up I had of my soundsalertsconfig-scene.html... where would I find a clean copy of it? Jun 23 00:06:23 rwhitby: plan to make that change, with exception on a few targets Jun 23 00:06:37 eno: thx Jun 23 00:06:48 np Jun 23 00:06:49 twobitsprite: webOS doctor .jar file Jun 23 00:07:17 hey guys im having trouble with the flashlight when i get to the part shutdown torch torch/flash i get this error msg Jun 23 00:07:18 is it normal for a phone to zap 30%+ of its battery in an hour with "real world usage" aka... playing music while chatting and surfing the web and running a few apps...?? Jun 23 00:07:19 root@castle:/var/home/root# shutdown torch torch/flash Jun 23 00:07:19 shutdown: illegal time value Jun 23 00:07:19 Try `shutdown --help' for more information. Jun 23 00:08:08 konsole, 30% in an hour seems a little excessive? Jun 23 00:08:13 whats the command to untar Jun 23 00:08:14 but i wouldn't doubt 10% Jun 23 00:08:22 tar xvf tarfilename.tar Jun 23 00:08:28 if it's a .tar.gz then tar zxvf Jun 23 00:08:35 StrengthFreak: which step on which wiki page? Jun 23 00:08:39 if it's a tar.bz2, it's tar jxvf Jun 23 00:08:43 ty Jun 23 00:08:47 np Jun 23 00:08:48 it was a .tar and i was using the zxvf Jun 23 00:08:52 the z was messing it up Jun 23 00:08:54 mode options on flashlight app Jun 23 00:08:55 yes Jun 23 00:09:02 bpadalino: i wasn't playing videos... i was partially distracted at the laundromat too.. but yeah 30% surfing and playing music, oh i was on aim/gtalk too... Jun 23 00:09:09 StrengthFreak: url please Jun 23 00:09:20 http://predev.wikidot.com/torch-flash Jun 23 00:09:29 konsoleX: there seems to be an issue with aim that drains the battery Jun 23 00:09:51 StrengthFreak: I released a flashlight application Jun 23 00:10:03 StrengthFreak: those are option which can be used with the mode file in /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0033 Jun 23 00:10:08 rwhitby: I don't see anything in there... what directory? Jun 23 00:10:12 StrengthFreak: why are you typing in things you don't understand? Jun 23 00:10:30 twobitsprite: there is a tarball of the castle rootfs in there Jun 23 00:10:40 because i thought you just type in thoes commands and you get the application Jun 23 00:10:57 thats what i was told to do Jun 23 00:11:18 rwhitby: I don't see any tarballs.... sorry to be a pain, but I honestly can't find it Jun 23 00:11:54 nm Jun 23 00:11:57 found it :) Jun 23 00:12:01 heh Jun 23 00:12:27 +rwhitby what shuold i do Jun 23 00:13:09 wow... winrar does not like that tar file Jun 23 00:13:40 use 7zip Jun 23 00:16:12 simply u around Jun 23 00:16:31 or shaya Jun 23 00:19:43 t? Jun 23 00:20:37 StrengthFreak: this may be a good opportunity to get up to speed on the basics. For example, takre a look at `shutdown --help' to loearn about the shutdown command. Jun 23 00:20:44 hi, anything new on the wiki today? Jun 23 00:23:09 everfine: you can always just check. :) Jun 23 00:23:30 can we talk about the T-word here? Jun 23 00:23:42 how Evan? Jun 23 00:24:08 i can't figure out how it's organized. Is there a way to see the latest modded pages? Jun 23 00:24:17 http://predev.wikidot.com/system:recent-changes Jun 23 00:24:37 Thanks Evan, this will be very helpful. Jun 23 00:25:11 should I take that as a no? :) Jun 23 00:25:21 What is the T-word? Jun 23 00:25:30 tethering Jun 23 00:25:47 by the way, awesome find on installing homebrew apps, whoever did that :) Jun 23 00:25:52 No. Jun 23 00:25:58 Read the topic. Jun 23 00:26:03 didn't think so... Jun 23 00:26:05 thanks Jun 23 00:26:15 You can google it. Jun 23 00:26:39 also, are any of the wiki mods in here? i'd like to upgrade our wiki to a pro lite, so we can go back a little further on revisions (my treat). Jun 23 00:26:50 i know, i have (they all are forwarded to the same page) Jun 23 00:26:56 just vista issues Jun 23 00:27:05 cheers, talk to you guys later Jun 23 00:28:44 ok like a retard i typed in all the flashlight commands, not knowing what they were, does that mean i fucked something up? Jun 23 00:29:02 i thought thats how to get a flashlight app.. Jun 23 00:29:15 everything seems fine tho Jun 23 00:33:20 you don't get a flashlight app by typing in the commands Jun 23 00:33:47 it will turn the light on and off only when rooted in Jun 23 00:34:01 yea i know :/ Jun 23 00:34:08 i thought it was different Jun 23 00:35:37 anyone found good dialer backgrounds? Jun 23 00:36:08 i think people have just been using images they already have Jun 23 00:36:30 like just get a desktop background and resize it Jun 23 00:37:06 yeah, i tried to make a few, but they all come out not-so-nice Jun 23 00:37:20 http://idesignpre.com has tons of wallpapers maybe one of those would look nice. Jun 23 00:37:28 thanks Jun 23 00:38:16 So has Palm responded to the xorg crew yet? Jun 23 00:38:21 * Templarian is reminded that we need randomly switching wallpapers out of the wallpaper folder... hope palm adds that soon. Jun 23 00:38:30 How can I get scp to work with dropbear? I have regular ssh and sftp working, but I can't scp. I didn't see an scp ipkg in the repository (just scponly, which I don't want). Jun 23 00:38:49 Templarian, there is a page on predev to do that Jun 23 00:39:12 everfine: will look into it later. thanks. Jun 23 00:39:18 simplyflipflops: You there? Jun 23 00:39:46 i'm here Jun 23 00:40:03 PreGame: have you looked into creating luna/dbus services that are accessible to mojo? Jun 23 00:40:32 yea... i released one with my flashlight app Jun 23 00:40:43 ok, I givee up, I'm going to have webosdoctor it Jun 23 00:40:53 DONT DO IT Jun 23 00:40:54 if I do a reinstall, what do I lose? Jun 23 00:40:57 no? Jun 23 00:41:01 the doctor will ask you to bend over and cough Jun 23 00:41:07 What is the idea behind waiting for Palm's approval on the unsigned apps thing? Is it a test? Jun 23 00:41:07 heh Jun 23 00:41:09 PreGame: was that dont do it to me? Jun 23 00:41:13 no Jun 23 00:41:15 twobitsprite Jun 23 00:41:22 PreGame: how did yours work? Jun 23 00:41:27 just a regular dbus service? Jun 23 00:41:27 seriously though... should I not do it? Jun 23 00:41:29 its a dbus service Jun 23 00:41:30 luna does the rest? Jun 23 00:41:34 I don't mean *unsigned I mean the ipk through email thing Jun 23 00:41:36 yes Jun 23 00:41:43 PreGame: why not? Jun 23 00:41:46 PreGame: we should make an install ipk service Jun 23 00:41:59 so you just create a service request and in your appliction have the service request use palm://com.pregame.prelease/method Jun 23 00:42:23 yea we could all it is, is untarring Jun 23 00:42:34 PreGame: well ipk's can do more Jun 23 00:42:36 run scripts Jun 23 00:42:48 if something fails, back changes out Jun 23 00:42:49 thats in the control files right? Jun 23 00:42:56 right Jun 23 00:43:01 yea Jun 23 00:43:03 PreGame: are you just trying to scare me, or are you going to tell me why I shouldn't do the reinstall? Jun 23 00:43:10 I'm thinking we should be prepared for palm to close the email hole Jun 23 00:43:18 and have a new method ready to go Jun 23 00:43:22 we could however, i don't know how useful it will be when palm releases the SDK in a month or two Jun 23 00:43:30 even if it has to be installed from a web os doctored machine Jun 23 00:43:39 shaya: It would just be so great of them if they told you "Yea go ahead, but give us a day or two to add a warning for users installing apps this way" Jun 23 00:43:42 su: must be suid to work properly? Jun 23 00:43:51 i'm trying to get root from ssh Jun 23 00:43:56 PreGame: do you think palm will ever let standard devs install native services? Jun 23 00:44:17 i'm sure they will Jun 23 00:44:37 so then why are they so uptight about tethering right now? Jun 23 00:44:39 PreGame: ok, I'm going to assume you were just being sarcastic and that it's ok to reinstall Jun 23 00:44:43 i'm sure some applications that users make will require something palm hasn't yet made Jun 23 00:44:46 once the sdk is released people will just do it anyways Jun 23 00:44:49 sprint agreement prohibits tethering Jun 23 00:44:55 twobitsprite: Yes reinstall Jun 23 00:45:01 reboot and call dell Jun 23 00:45:05 it's not thatp alm is against it, it is sprint who wants to sell their myfi/laptop cards Jun 23 00:45:10 right Jun 23 00:45:13 I'm not sure any phone carrier could defend their ability to prevent you from tethering in court Jun 23 00:45:16 but once the sdk is released we can make apps that do it too Jun 23 00:45:27 so what difference does it make in the big picture Jun 23 00:45:37 What if I download a icture on my phone and transfer it over USB to my computer? Have I tethered? At what point does it become against the TOS? Jun 23 00:45:52 i don't consider it tethering, i consider it displaying my palm pre on a larger screen Jun 23 00:46:04 :) Jun 23 00:46:06 that has nothing to do with tethering lol transferring usb files Jun 23 00:46:31 Cleanser: Okay so if I tether over USB, and initiate the download of the picture from my computer, then what''s the difference? Jun 23 00:46:39 The only difference is the request originated from a different place Jun 23 00:47:08 Tethering = transferring USB files Jun 23 00:47:53 So technically downloading an image on your phone and sending it to your computer is tethering, because you're using your connection to get web content on your computer Jun 23 00:48:10 can you plug multiple lines into terminal like in the predev instructions? Jun 23 00:48:25 one after the other ? Jun 23 00:48:32 yeah. Jun 23 00:48:36 should work unless there is user input Jun 23 00:48:53 Sprint already has 5Gb limit on your "unlimited" connection, so why should they care how you use it? It's only so they can find a way to charge you more for what yoou're already paying for Jun 23 00:48:53 ok. just cp individual files but a lot of them Jun 23 00:49:02 Which I can't agree to on principle Jun 23 00:50:03 Besides that, it's probably against the law for an ISP to determine which end points are okay to have on your internet connection Jun 23 00:50:35 Like, comcast can't say to me "You're free to use Windows machines, but don't use Linux machines" <-- That's essentially what Sprint is saying Jun 23 00:51:09 I had a rep tell me once that my Windows Mobile phone costs more fore data because it has a bigger screen, and therefore needs to download more data to fill it Jun 23 00:51:21 sounds logical to me Jun 23 00:51:30 lol Jun 23 00:51:34 sounds like crap to me Jun 23 00:51:34 good stuff Jun 23 00:51:49 sam1am, not quite the law, but it could violate the AUP/ToS Jun 23 00:52:30 Sargun: Do you think it might fall under net neutrality? Jun 23 00:52:42 fuck neutrality, this is capitalism. Jun 23 00:52:59 Hmm Jun 23 00:53:07 No Jun 23 00:53:37 Compuserve, AOL, and prodigy were all capitalism. Jun 23 00:53:38 no? Jun 23 00:53:52 The internet wasn't ever built as a business Jun 23 00:54:09 The government wasn't worried about revenue and subscriber numbers when they built it Jun 23 00:54:41 Its very nature is the reason the closed networks all failed and you arent using compuserve today Jun 23 00:55:01 doesn't matter what it was then, matters what it is now Jun 23 00:55:22 space started off as the USSR and US to compete about whose dick was bigger -- at the time, it didn't matter Jun 23 00:55:50 Sargun: True, but just because things can evolve doesn't make breaking them a good idea Jun 23 00:56:13 huh? Jun 23 00:56:14 If the idea of non-neutraility lead to the demise of all the early "internet" providers, then why would it be a good thing now? Jun 23 00:56:31 augh, my lungs are killing me. Jun 23 00:56:46 nice i just edited dialer :P Jun 23 00:56:47 Shall I start my antibiotics? Jun 23 00:56:58 sam1am: you can tether all you want - the channel just won't really help you out with it ... and, in turn, breaking your tos Jun 23 00:56:59 how do i change the white to a different color now? Jun 23 00:57:38 bpadalino: eh I don't know why we got off on that subject. I was actually more interested in the thought behind getting Palm's blessing for our every development Jun 23 00:58:32 bpadalino: I understand the community has made a concession on the tethering thing, and that's fine because the archaic practice will come to an end soon enough, but as far as distributing apps via email - it shouldn't be us asking palm for permission Jun 23 00:58:32 honestly this whole home working development keeps the blogs buzzing and news coming out with the pre while palm get the sdk out the door .. Jun 23 00:59:25 palm letting apps get installed through email was an oversight and will likely get plugged quickly by palm .. it is a pretty bad security disaster Jun 23 00:59:31 If it was me, I would ask Palm, and then release the instructions to the wild anyway. Let whatever their statement was stand as what kind of a company they want to be Jun 23 00:59:47 sam1am: the instructions are in the wild Jun 23 00:59:55 htey are in the precentral forums Jun 23 01:00:13 shaya: Oh, then what's all this business about waiting to hear back from Palm? Jun 23 01:00:23 I dont know Jun 23 01:00:25 I never said it Jun 23 01:00:28 that was all the xorg person Jun 23 01:00:39 oh Jun 23 01:00:40 ha Jun 23 01:00:58 he just wanted to install apps Jun 23 01:01:03 sff figured out the email thing Jun 23 01:01:06 I figured out the signing Jun 23 01:01:14 a true joint venture Jun 23 01:01:32 bpadalino: wouldn't that include Wonder420 ? Jun 23 01:02:07 did they help out ? Jun 23 01:02:08 Well that's good to hear, someone should probably contact Pre News and Gizmodo and set the record straight. It's making the dev community sound like a bunch of pansies Jun 23 01:02:08 then sure! Jun 23 01:02:13 honestly, the only thing that we'd need to make the pre fully usable is figure out how to write graphical browser plugins Jun 23 01:02:44 someone should figure out how classic does it's thing Jun 23 01:02:49 oh neat - the pre commercia Jun 23 01:02:50 l Jun 23 01:06:26 did you guys see the updated patch on webcore? Jun 23 01:06:31 ?? Jun 23 01:06:33 link ? Jun 23 01:06:40 on opensource.palm.com Jun 23 01:06:46 before it didn't include any new files Jun 23 01:06:50 ah Jun 23 01:06:59 but now its VERY interesting Jun 23 01:07:18 it even got PalmServiceBridge and most of the Piranha stuff Jun 23 01:07:57 no one saw it? :( Jun 23 01:08:35 ShinAli: sorry, working all day on getting the browser to download files. Jun 23 01:08:41 GestureEvent ! Jun 23 01:08:58 I LOVE HOW LONG IT TAKES TO REBOOT THE PRE! Jun 23 01:10:24 me too Jun 23 01:10:42 I need to change that reboot throbber Jun 23 01:10:52 the bright version of it looks to me like my screen's fogged up Jun 23 01:10:56 I hate it Jun 23 01:11:21 ShinAli: that's interesting Jun 23 01:11:41 look for the npapi stuff Jun 23 01:12:07 think it would be modified ? Jun 23 01:12:12 i would think that is just stock stuff Jun 23 01:13:20 NPAPI wouldn't be modified much other than passing a context to draw to Jun 23 01:13:56 which the context stuff is the aforementioned Piranha stuff and thank god i see some of that on there Jun 23 01:14:53 ShinAli: that's what I meant Jun 23 01:14:59 see what context npapi is passing Jun 23 01:19:58 site said to come here if I need help Jun 23 01:20:06 I can't find a telnet client for vista 64. I Jun 23 01:20:13 putty ? Jun 23 01:20:15 'm an idiot. please help Jun 23 01:20:24 does it work on non-x86 systems? Jun 23 01:20:37 what is your system ? Jun 23 01:20:51 i have no idea if it works on itanium actually Jun 23 01:21:09 Has anyone discovered a built-in function for calling shell commands? Jun 23 01:21:53 on where, webOS apps? Jun 23 01:22:21 if so, no Jun 23 01:22:26 they made it pretty safe Jun 23 01:23:20 I'm finishing up my Pre app already. Working on CSS :) Jun 23 01:23:28 congrats Jun 23 01:23:29 vista 64 on 4core 3ghz processor Jun 23 01:23:43 what type of app ? Jun 23 01:23:53 A game. Jun 23 01:25:42 argh Jun 23 01:25:46 just want to root the damn thing Jun 23 01:25:46 has anyone contacted SLACKER about releasing an app? Jun 23 01:25:50 and get usb access Jun 23 01:26:23 whose slacker Jun 23 01:26:31 who is slacker* Jun 23 01:27:59 ShinAli: all plugins seems to windowless Jun 23 01:28:06 NPWindowTypeDrawable Jun 23 01:28:19 which would seem to be a pixmap of sort Jun 23 01:28:36 they'd have to be Jun 23 01:29:29 are people shring source for their apps, goatslacker? Jun 23 01:29:53 have no clue. i'll be sharing source though Jun 23 01:30:23 ShinAli: though that sucks for acceleration Jun 23 01:30:53 accelerated apps can work fine windowless, quake live is a good example Jun 23 01:31:06 ShinAli: not if the only context we have to draw in is a pixmap Jun 23 01:31:14 i keep getting remote host forced connection closed, but I didn't see any problems after the talk.py ran Jun 23 01:31:15 o rite Jun 23 01:31:35 let me run my patch so i can take a better look Jun 23 01:32:06 what'd you make? Jun 23 01:34:09 i should make an ipk and rick roll peeps rofl Jun 23 01:36:42 will someone please help me? Jun 23 01:36:50 I can't seem to log into my pre Jun 23 01:37:00 use novaproxy.py Jun 23 01:37:03 and the usb Jun 23 01:37:12 I'm trying. Jun 23 01:37:17 I'm running novaproxy.py. Jun 23 01:37:25 I'm trying to telnet into the little bastard. Jun 23 01:37:37 it's not working. I keep getting remote host closed connection errors Jun 23 01:37:39 and timeouts Jun 23 01:37:55 i'm not sure if it's Putty screwing up or if I've done something wrong. Jun 23 01:37:57 Necromek, try a different OS using virtualbox (windows xp 32bit) Jun 23 01:38:04 ugh. Jun 23 01:38:11 great. virtuboxing. Jun 23 01:38:12 joy. Jun 23 01:38:39 is there a style guide anywhere? Jun 23 01:38:59 for pre apps? Jun 23 01:39:00 not really Jun 23 01:39:04 for the mojo Jun 23 01:39:42 ... it really pisses me off when I've got to drop down to a virtual XP box when I'm running a quad core on 64bit. why does NOTHING seem to run? Jun 23 01:39:43 what do you mean? Jun 23 01:40:21 Necromek: Maybe because the OFFICIAL tools have not been released yet so people are making whatever they can Jun 23 01:40:27 more cycles doesn't mean everything starts working all of a sudden Jun 23 01:40:34 that and vista is shit Jun 23 01:40:52 im using the novaproxy just fine on visa Jun 23 01:40:54 nista Jun 23 01:40:54 s/vista/windows/ Jun 23 01:40:56 vista Jun 23 01:41:08 that doesn't change the notion that vista is shit! Jun 23 01:41:19 agree Jun 23 01:41:38 it's not novaproxy that I think is screwing me. Is there something other than putty I can run? Jun 23 01:41:39 i'd help but i never went through rooting it on my vista installation Jun 23 01:41:54 what is the .py script you are running? Jun 23 01:42:02 novaproxy. Jun 23 01:42:11 do you have developer mode enabled? Jun 23 01:43:00 araxis merge is so SLOW Jun 23 01:43:04 og it finished Jun 23 01:43:09 s/og/og Jun 23 01:43:13 ARGH Jun 23 01:43:20 he's going insane Jun 23 01:43:41 BLOO BLEAH BLOO BLOO Jun 23 01:44:11 plugged the thing in. Jun 23 01:44:14 ran talk.py Jun 23 01:44:19 ran novaproxy. Jun 23 01:44:32 tried to run putty. kept getting remote host errors Jun 23 01:44:35 DID YOU ENABLE DEVELOPER MODE??? Jun 23 01:44:44 YES, GODDAMNIT Jun 23 01:44:50 !! Jun 23 01:44:54 watch it buddy Jun 23 01:45:04 I already answered that question three damn times Jun 23 01:45:09 no you didn't Jun 23 01:45:17 uh... yes, I did. Scroll up. Jun 23 01:45:23 oy vey Jun 23 01:45:25 no you didn't mecro Jun 23 01:45:28 neco* Jun 23 01:45:29 <+PreGame> do you have developer mode enabled? Jun 23 01:45:29 yes. Jun 23 01:45:35 nope Jun 23 01:45:40 your connection timed out Jun 23 01:45:44 [6:42:11 pm] <+PreGame> do you have developer mode enabled? Jun 23 01:45:44 [6:42:42 pm] * Necromek (n=bob@cpe-173-093-204-119.sc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 23 01:45:44 [6:42:50 pm] * Necromek (n=bob@cpe-173-093-204-119.sc.res.rr.com) has joined #webos-internals Jun 23 01:45:46 you got disconnected Jun 23 01:46:17 ............. Jun 23 01:46:19 argh. Jun 23 01:46:29 this is why I'm not a software engineer. Jun 23 01:46:33 get a better internet connection and the pre problem will get fixed too Jun 23 01:46:51 necromek, what exactly is the problem/error you're getting ? Jun 23 01:47:06 remote host closed connection. error: connection timeout. Jun 23 01:47:13 both from puttytel.exe Jun 23 01:47:23 necromek, where are you trying to connect to and on what port ? Jun 23 01:47:25 when I try to log in via the settings in novaproxy. Jun 23 01:47:44 man, here we go again Jun 23 01:47:45 Necromek Jun 23 01:47:51 192.168.1.104 on my network, via port 8023, in RAW mode Jun 23 01:47:55 did you read the novaproxy.py script at the top? Jun 23 01:48:03 just went through all the steps for optwarefeed AGAIN, and now operation is timing out Jun 23 01:48:05 use localhost Jun 23 01:48:08 yes. Jun 23 01:48:12 localhost? Jun 23 01:48:14 vista defaults to ipv6, use 127.0.0.1 Jun 23 01:48:19 just type localhost instead of the ip Jun 23 01:48:23 unless you edited your hosts file Jun 23 01:48:29 i'm on vista and use localhost Jun 23 01:48:40 yeah, me too, I just know some apps screw up with it Jun 23 01:49:03 ... the localhost bit I never knew. Jun 23 01:49:05 thank you. Jun 23 01:49:37 could have sworn novaproxy says to connect to localhost :-/ Jun 23 01:49:39 make sure your pre is connected to USB and that the novacomd service is running Jun 23 01:49:41 heh Jun 23 01:49:57 necromek, does it work now ? Jun 23 01:51:35 I'm logged in. Jun 23 01:51:36 yes. Jun 23 01:51:45 thank you. Jun 23 01:51:54 congrats :) Jun 23 01:52:18 now to figure out how to get it to give me usb root access so i don't have to screw with too many linux commands every time I want to change something Jun 23 01:52:38 that last statement confused me :( Jun 23 01:52:59 you are in usb root Jun 23 01:53:07 yah really Jun 23 01:53:28 you know how to actually use linux? Jun 23 01:53:40 if not, i'd stay away from root and use sudo Jun 23 01:54:00 also - there is a linux basic guide on the wiki if you need some references Jun 23 01:54:02 opie_, what do you mean style guide? like palm's css classes? Jun 23 01:54:02 i knew just little basic commands but learned more from rooting the pre Jun 23 01:54:10 meaning of last statement: I want to find a way to enable windows' basic file structure to see the hidden directories in the pre. Jun 23 01:54:11 I give palm thanks for teaching me linux Jun 23 01:54:35 Necromek: that explanation doesn't help that much Jun 23 01:54:36 The only things I really want to do are replace files, with a gui, instead of linux based transfer commands. Jun 23 01:54:41 they're not "hidden" Jun 23 01:54:47 they're on different file systems Jun 23 01:54:57 ah. Jun 23 01:55:00 damn it all. Jun 23 01:55:04 which you really can't mount onto windows because they're not FAT or NTFS Jun 23 01:55:24 curse you gates.... curse you.... and your incompatible hard drive standards.... Jun 23 01:55:25 you can use sftp Jun 23 01:55:29 learn linux, it's not that hard Jun 23 01:55:37 but DON'T USE ROOT ALL THE TIME Jun 23 01:55:40 Necromek, why don't you use an ftp program? Jun 23 01:56:05 I would like to. please direct me to instructions on this process? Jun 23 01:56:17 or do i just get the FTP to log into localhost on 8023? Jun 23 01:56:28 SFTP works on the palm pre Jun 23 01:56:32 i believe there's a tut in the wiki Jun 23 01:56:37 its on the wiki for sure Jun 23 01:56:46 http://predev.wikidot.com/sftp-access Jun 23 01:56:46 a link would be nice for him Jun 23 01:56:49 there you go Jun 23 01:56:50 its one of the featured articles Jun 23 01:57:04 also one more thing Jun 23 01:57:07 don't use root Jun 23 01:57:32 and here's an ftp client that is cross-platform: http://filezilla-project.org/ Jun 23 01:58:03 might have better luck with putty or winscp but I have never used Filezilla Jun 23 01:58:09 it supports drag-n-drop and has a decent ui. although you can keep your fancy GUI programs, i'll stick to scp Jun 23 01:58:10 winscp is also kind of nice if you're stuck on windows Jun 23 01:58:24 yeah scp and sshfs Jun 23 01:58:30 I appreciate command line interface. I get frustrated with them easily. Jun 23 01:58:45 patience. rome wasn't built in a day Jun 23 01:58:58 A gui helps me do things quickly, and lets me see a structure to the directories. Jun 23 01:59:23 what you learn will be useful. one day you'll have more available to you than what the gui apps give you. Jun 23 02:00:19 I'm a visual person. I understand the need to learn proper command line. I'm currently in a job where I do not have the time to spend studying. Right now, I should be in bed. I have a twelve hour day tomorrow and three more following it this week. I want to learn linux. I just have to wait until I have a wee bit more free time. Jun 23 02:02:04 so I've reached the point in the instructions where it says, if you "can't seem to get past this step, join our IRC channel" Jun 23 02:02:20 specifically, I'm trying to telnet and it keeps timing out Jun 23 02:02:33 if anybody has any helpful hints, it would be much appreciated Jun 23 02:02:52 dont telnet Jun 23 02:02:58 use novaproxy Jun 23 02:03:05 ah Jun 23 02:03:10 ok, I'll give that a try Jun 23 02:03:11 if you guys want to learn linux i would suggest getting a livecd /dvd and run that Jun 23 02:04:14 Learn through Gentoo :P Jun 23 02:04:24 anyone have a understanding of Mojo.Service.Request? I'm trying to pull something from a database, but the request looks like it's hanging Jun 23 02:04:28 a few good ones are sabayonlinux.org fedora Jun 23 02:04:32 i wonder if theres a way to download different color schemes for the dialer etc... Jun 23 02:04:37 I learned on slackware Jun 23 02:04:39 i prefer gentoo Jun 23 02:04:41 because its annoying painting it Jun 23 02:04:55 it doesnt come out professional Jun 23 02:05:16 If I plug in the usb cable, SSH in to the ppp interface's IP, and then unplug the USB and wait for the screen to go blank, the putty window gets assaulted with tons of system-broadcast "powerd: System woke up." and "powerd: System going to sleep now" messages....is this expected? The repeating sleep/wakeup? Jun 23 02:05:25 at the risk of starting a holy war, I'll put in a plug for Ubuntu, if you wish to learn linux Jun 23 02:05:32 ewww Jun 23 02:05:37 searedice: yes, that's expected Jun 23 02:05:44 you dont want to know what i call ubuntu Jun 23 02:07:03 Is the SSH session waking it up, or is that sleep/awake pattern how the thing manages saving power while idle? Jun 23 02:07:37 Ubuntu isn't bad. It's really user-friendly. Jun 23 02:07:44 and that's an understatement Jun 23 02:08:16 Ubuntu's all I use outside of oddball environments like the Pre Jun 23 02:08:17 searedice: wifi is waking up Jun 23 02:08:19 hey guys can u reccomend me a good paint program to edit the dial numbers? i want them to ome out perfect O_o Jun 23 02:09:04 Jackie: wifi? I have wifi turned off...do you mean the cell-tower connection? Jun 23 02:09:09 paint.NET Jun 23 02:09:20 i always do vector drawing Jun 23 02:09:21 StrengthFreak, GIMP Jun 23 02:09:28 thanks Jun 23 02:09:29 paint.NET is good stuff, and GIMP has way more features, but is kinda clunky Jun 23 02:10:04 StrengthFreak, some nice Pre Dialers should start coming up soon. I'll give it a go once I'm done with my app Jun 23 02:10:46 which reminds me, anyone have experience writing to the database? Jun 23 02:10:49 alright sounds awesome.. I put blue but i can see white shadows behind it Jun 23 02:10:57 doesnt look that professional Jun 23 02:10:59 i need to keep track of high scores, i can do this on the phone or online. Jun 23 02:11:21 suggestions? Jun 23 02:13:04 what does Mojo.loadScript() do i can't find it in the source Jun 23 02:13:21 opie_, it loads a javascript file. Jun 23 02:13:31 goatslacker: right, but does it start some lifecycle? Jun 23 02:14:23 hmm, let me check Jun 23 02:14:39 i'm searching again, i couldn't come across it Jun 23 02:15:31 this is what it does: document.write('