**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 24 02:59:57 2009 Jun 24 02:59:59 nxl, there is a jvm installed .. Jun 24 03:00:01 thanks... i'll brb. thanks again for the help Jun 24 03:00:06 java is built in. All the internal service are written in java Jun 24 03:00:14 nxl, if you want to run classes you compile - use the javahy command Jun 24 03:00:24 but no java vitual machine though Jun 24 03:00:36 ... Jun 24 03:00:52 nxl, what do you want to do with the java virtual machine ? Jun 24 03:00:56 i want to login to this website and use java to control a pan/tilt camera. It uses java virtual machine Jun 24 03:01:19 ahhhh... so you want to enable java embedding in the BROWSER. Jun 24 03:01:27 oh i see Jun 24 03:01:30 there _is_ a jvm. It's not linked to the BROWSER Jun 24 03:01:44 no way to link it? Jun 24 03:01:46 darn Jun 24 03:01:57 oh, I didn't say that. Jun 24 03:02:08 quick question. I have finally downloaded the web doctor image, extracted the webos.tar and now have nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz, when I unzip, I cannot untar the final file... I just need a couple .js from it.... Jun 24 03:02:23 how then, please do tell? Jun 24 03:02:30 I mean you get to start hacking the browser. Which is utterly do-able. cphelps and mdklein did it yesterday and enabled downloads. Enabling jvm couldn't be much worse. Jun 24 03:02:53 hmmm i'll have to do some research. thanks all Jun 24 03:04:15 peasley: how did you unzip the rootfs tar.gz Jun 24 03:04:48 NxlKing2304, you might want to start with Chris Phelps page on his mods to the browser for downloading Jun 24 03:05:28 I am trying to find out how to.. for some reason it unzips, then it fails with the extraction from tar... Jun 24 03:05:32 i''m on osx Jun 24 03:06:00 got command line? Jun 24 03:06:01 what parts failing? it won't be able to create some of the dev nodes but they won't be important on non-device Jun 24 03:06:36 yes Jun 24 03:06:48 just don't know how to with command line. care to share? Jun 24 03:07:05 tar xzf file.tar.gz Jun 24 03:07:34 tar -xvf nova-cust-image-castlerootfs.tar.gz all in one go. Jun 24 03:07:39 does it all at once. Jun 24 03:08:05 tar -zxvf Jun 24 03:08:05 add a z if it's gzipped Jun 24 03:08:18 ahh, you're right. I left the stupid z off Jun 24 03:08:28 hot damn anyone else having battery life issues with the dynamic dns updating? Jun 24 03:09:10 you in the middle of nowhere a gazillion miles from towers Ahchoo? Jun 24 03:09:29 rick you still here? Jun 24 03:09:35 cool! thanks! Jun 24 03:09:40 sometimes I am when I move between tunnels or some of the building I am in I dont have signal Jun 24 03:09:53 I am averaging about a 30% loss in battery life Jun 24 03:09:53 'cause ever time it has to update, it has to send packets... and if it's having to go to a big power pulse to send, then it drains the battery when the radio is in high power mode Jun 24 03:10:29 yeppers. It's like leaving the radio on when you're on an airplane. It goes to high power mode for the whole flight and drains th ebattery. Jun 24 03:10:43 slik... right here Jun 24 03:10:56 ok... im reinstalling novacomd now Jun 24 03:11:01 k Jun 24 03:11:49 rick, trying to modify the camera, but how do i edit files and so forth. I mounted the filesystem, but how do i navigate and edit Jun 24 03:11:58 During a normal day with out the script I am getting about a 30% increase in life its only with the script that I lose it. Jun 24 03:12:02 i'm so confused andd i'm usually pretty good with pc's Jun 24 03:12:03 ok, the updates come from https://ps.palmws.com (or at least the start of the conversation does). to effectively sniff that traffic I'll need to man-in-the-middle SSL. and if it validates certs against a trust store (which I really hope it does) I'll need to alter that to get it to trust a cert I sign as well. Jun 24 03:12:15 nxl, are you pretty good with linux ? Jun 24 03:12:23 (trying to watch the update and see what it grabs from where) Jun 24 03:12:29 not really, i wish i was, lol Jun 24 03:12:30 destinal, sounds awesome Jun 24 03:12:54 destinal, let me crack open a jar file and see if i can see something that may be useful Jun 24 03:13:17 interestingly the pre also makes NTP requests when it starts up Jun 24 03:13:22 which updates? Jun 24 03:13:38 and occasionally talks to google to triangulate its location based on wifi access points and their strength, I think Jun 24 03:14:21 mdklein: webOS updates Jun 24 03:14:35 1.0.3 update packages were not signed at all, dunno about in the future Jun 24 03:14:41 If the palm can find them and download them, so can I. :) Jun 24 03:14:48 Nxl, you need to learn how to navigate and edit in linux. Jun 24 03:15:05 i see this......sigh Jun 24 03:15:06 mdklein: how did you know the update packages weren't signed? Jun 24 03:15:08 I have all of them unpacked on my pre Jun 24 03:15:11 Go buy a linux for dummies book. and read the basic linux page... and etc. Jun 24 03:15:19 mdklein: how did you do that? Jun 24 03:15:21 You can't do this without understanding what you're doing. Jun 24 03:15:38 they are downloaded to /media/internal/downloads before they are installed Jun 24 03:15:41 ah Jun 24 03:15:43 will do, Thanks again all!! Jun 24 03:15:58 the update packages were not signed?!?!?!? Jun 24 03:16:00 wow. Jun 24 03:16:01 rick: i am in as root Jun 24 03:16:03 I ar -x .ipk and tar xfzed the contents... they were not signed Jun 24 03:16:04 well they're downloaded over SSL Jun 24 03:16:07 yippee!!!! Jun 24 03:16:24 yes. links in the email app don't work over https Jun 24 03:16:27 now http://predev.wikidot.com/next-steps-after-rooting and be VERY VERY CAREFUL. Jun 24 03:16:42 and don't disconnect the telnet session until AFTER you have another window working in SSH. Jun 24 03:16:48 palm uses the downloadManager application to grab the updates, which puts everything in /media/internal/downloads Jun 24 03:16:51 of course that may not protect the updates against a Man in the middle Jun 24 03:16:57 ok... should i do dropbear again? Jun 24 03:17:16 or can i unistall dropbear and use openssh? Jun 24 03:17:22 depends on whether it validates the certs cn against what it is trying to connect to Jun 24 03:17:29 and against the trusted root store Jun 24 03:17:47 slik, dropbear is HALF THE MEMORY HIT of openssh. Go with dropbear Jun 24 03:19:30 and do you want me to do the optware stuff again too? Jun 24 03:19:35 no Jun 24 03:19:40 optware should be there. Jun 24 03:19:43 skip that. Jun 24 03:19:59 if it's there, it's there. Jun 24 03:20:05 ok... so just run rootfs_open and go back to dropbear? Jun 24 03:20:23 or just mount -o remount,rw / Jun 24 03:20:41 since you've already done rootfs_open Jun 24 03:21:02 * destinal1 is back Jun 24 03:21:13 You know something.. tech support is a skill set. Jun 24 03:21:25 yes it is... Jun 24 03:21:27 that's what I get for reconfiguring my network while connected to IRC on it. :) Jun 24 03:21:42 ok i ran that Jun 24 03:21:44 tech support hurts Jun 24 03:21:51 should i start from the top of dropbear? Jun 24 03:21:53 Well.. dstinal_ THAT was the best idea you ever had.... :-) Jun 24 03:21:57 :) Jun 24 03:22:31 i think i broke classic, at least it won't acknowledge things i wget into classicapps folder... le sigh Jun 24 03:22:32 slik start with pkill dropbear ; pkill -9 dropbear Jun 24 03:22:39 anyone from FL here? Jun 24 03:22:49 and see if you can just go on from there. Jun 24 03:23:14 who manages the wiki? Jun 24 03:23:15 God no. Oceans. Hurricanes. Alligators. [[[shudder[[ Jun 24 03:23:30 ok on step 3 i get file exists Jun 24 03:23:33 rwhitby has op on the wiki. emkmon owns it Jun 24 03:23:41 skip it then slik Jun 24 03:23:50 thanks Jun 24 03:24:55 ok did everything else and I still get putty fatal error network connection refused Jun 24 03:25:00 simplyflipflops do you need an edit invtation? 'cause any member can do that. Jun 24 03:25:19 no I have that.. I have other ideas Jun 24 03:25:21 thanks Jun 24 03:25:23 initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 24 03:25:23 (01362/541176756) optware-dropbear (start) waiting Jun 24 03:25:23 (01362/542397459) optware-dropbear (start) starting Jun 24 03:25:23 (01362/560799559) optware-dropbear (start) pre-start, process 2094 Jun 24 03:25:23 (01362/602028807) optware-dropbear (start) spawned, process 2097 Jun 24 03:25:24 (01362/603615721) optware-dropbear (start) post-start, (main) process 2097 Jun 24 03:25:26 (01362/604958495) optware-dropbear (start) running, process 2097 Jun 24 03:25:38 well, that's good. Jun 24 03:25:39 thats what i get... so it looks like its running Jun 24 03:25:58 i am supposed to use ssh port 222 correct? Jun 24 03:26:23 and i am using putty Jun 24 03:26:39 right. Jun 24 03:26:41 222 Jun 24 03:26:56 yup... i got all that and it is not connecting Jun 24 03:27:08 is port 222 open on your pc? Did you turn off your firewall, or open port 222 in it? Jun 24 03:27:14 destinal_: still there ? Jun 24 03:27:41 i am running symantec endpoint protection... its turned off Jun 24 03:28:01 ok, I accept that, but the windows firewall isn't ALSO running? Jun 24 03:28:29 Tech support people gots to ask stupid questions. It's in the rules. Jun 24 03:29:09 nope Jun 24 03:29:12 no Jun 24 03:29:14 ok. Jun 24 03:29:21 hmmmmm Jun 24 03:29:30 hold on... i just created a rule in network threat protection on SEP Jun 24 03:29:35 what needs to happen with that is, to even stimulate the economy, to create a position for people to SCREEN to allow individuals to be connected to tech support Jun 24 03:30:09 still didnt work Jun 24 03:30:24 Rick__: actually, regarding the wiki, I just have the password, like any other contributor. Jun 24 03:30:30 no special privs Jun 24 03:30:48 ahh. good to know rwhitby Jun 24 03:30:54 just double checked and windows firewall is def off too Jun 24 03:31:04 should i try openssh? Jun 24 03:31:08 hey uhm, since this is like, running linux and all... And i'm pretty sure pf isn't running so.. what's the deal with the firewall? Jun 24 03:31:09 ok slik... pkill dropbear again Jun 24 03:31:17 ok Jun 24 03:31:18 then start it with exec /opt/sbin/dropbear -g -F -p 222 Jun 24 03:31:19 is your fone just an open box waiting to get owned on the sprint network? Jun 24 03:31:27 rwhitby: drop me a note. my irc does pick you up for msg Jun 24 03:31:35 doesn Jun 24 03:31:36 t Jun 24 03:32:04 its says not found Jun 24 03:32:26 oh missed the exec Jun 24 03:32:28 huh? Jun 24 03:32:38 oh... drop the exec Jun 24 03:32:45 it closed the putty window Jun 24 03:32:46 sorry I copied that out of the script. Jun 24 03:32:52 simplyflipflops: you gotta register your nick with freenode and sign in to nickserv to be able to /msg me I think Jun 24 03:33:03 i lost my telnet session again Jun 24 03:33:16 the exec on it just completely closed the window Jun 24 03:33:17 slik, is your pre plugged in to the usb ? Jun 24 03:33:22 yes Jun 24 03:33:27 on charge only Jun 24 03:33:31 ok Jun 24 03:33:39 get back in with telnet.... Jun 24 03:33:42 music running so it doesnt timeout Jun 24 03:33:47 and cat /usr/sbin/iptables Jun 24 03:33:55 it doesn't time out if it's plugged in. Jun 24 03:34:28 you need to make sure that 222 is open on the pre.... Jun 24 03:34:36 the script should have done that.... but uh, perhaps not. Jun 24 03:34:46 hello everyone Jun 24 03:35:08 hi showegel Jun 24 03:35:08 does anyone know the path to the "usb drive" on the pre ? Jun 24 03:35:16 i ran cat /usr/sbin/iptables and got a bunch of garbage Jun 24 03:35:26 its /media/internal Jun 24 03:35:29 u rock Jun 24 03:35:43 ok, we've reached the edge of Rick's linux knowledge. Iptables is beyond me. Jun 24 03:35:54 Linux geeks step in and help slik please. I'm outa here. Jun 24 03:36:11 /usr/sbin/iptables is the firewall binary Jun 24 03:36:33 what should i be looking for? Jun 24 03:37:12 sorry, scrolling back to see what's going on Jun 24 03:37:12 rick: is there an easy way for me to remove dropbear? Jun 24 03:37:22 bpadalino: am now Jun 24 03:37:26 ipkg-opt remove dropbea Jun 24 03:37:29 r Jun 24 03:37:35 whoa Jun 24 03:37:39 there's a package manager?! Jun 24 03:37:42 jackie: i am trying to ssh in and i get a network error: connection refused Jun 24 03:37:42 for real?! Jun 24 03:37:43 JackieRipper. He has dropbear installed. It's running. Jun 24 03:37:46 the reason your session closed is that "exec" replaces the current process with the one specified Jun 24 03:37:48 that's so cool Jun 24 03:38:02 yeah, that was my bad. I cut and pasted an extra word. Jun 24 03:38:14 i am back in now... but still cant ssh Jun 24 03:38:20 but ignore that, he can't get to the pre on ssh 222 Jun 24 03:38:22 to you replaced tour shell process with dropbear Jun 24 03:38:38 Hey Guys, I have a quick question you guys could prolly answer pretty easily Jun 24 03:38:48 that's what we're here for. Jun 24 03:38:53 slikone27: ps ps aux | grep dropbear Jun 24 03:38:58 YAY!!! I HAVE DEAD PIXELS!!!! Jun 24 03:39:01 oops, only one ps Jun 24 03:39:15 slikone27: ps aux | grep dropbear Jun 24 03:39:36 ps aux | grep dropbear Jun 24 03:39:37 root 2303 0.0 0.2 2692 532 pts/0 R<+ 23:39 0:00 grep dropbear Jun 24 03:39:47 Sweet, for my gmail account, (in order to save battery and whatnot) I changed the settings so that days = 1 day (only have one day of e-mail) and updates = MANUAL... but when its sleeping (black screen) it still gets new e-mails... what exactly does manual mean then? Jun 24 03:40:08 slikone27: dropbear is not running Jun 24 03:40:19 ok... what should i do? Jun 24 03:40:39 PreRocks: There's a bug with the Manual setting. Try setting to every 24 hours. Jun 24 03:40:56 slikone27: initctl start dropbear Jun 24 03:41:15 jblebrun: thanks Jun 24 03:41:44 jblebrun: but when i actually click INBOX in the mail program, it will still update then correct? Jun 24 03:41:46 jackie: (02422/562233885) dropbear (start) running, process 2322 Jun 24 03:41:50 is the last line Jun 24 03:41:50 btw, PreRocks. days-1 does not save battery. only memory. Jun 24 03:41:52 slikone27: ps aux | grep dropbear Jun 24 03:42:14 root 2327 0.0 0.2 2692 532 pts/0 S<+ 23:42 0:00 grep dropbear Jun 24 03:42:24 Rick__: you know, i thought that, but I was just blindly following one of those aritlces online, thx for the info, i'm setting it back to 7 Jun 24 03:42:36 PreRocks: yes, it should still update when you tell it to. Jun 24 03:42:49 did you download the start script that goes into /etc/event.d? Jun 24 03:42:50 alright, decided to switch to dropbear Jun 24 03:42:53 pretty painless Jun 24 03:43:00 I think that it is important to explain Kill to nubs. It's probably one of the most important commands Jun 24 03:43:03 8 ) Jun 24 03:43:07 which step is that? Jun 24 03:43:14 i copied and pasted them all Jun 24 03:43:36 step 3 line 2 Jun 24 03:44:08 Hey one last thing before i call it a night guys.... Jun 24 03:44:25 rick: in the dropbear install or optware? Jun 24 03:44:37 slikone27: dropbear install Jun 24 03:44:38 How big of a factor is brightness in battery life... is there a big difference between 50% brightness and say, 20% brightness? Jun 24 03:44:42 http://predev.wikidot.com/dropbear-install -- the two lines of step 3 Jun 24 03:44:59 no one has documented that. Jun 24 03:45:09 cd /etc/event.d/ ; wget http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jun 24 03:45:12 PreRocks -- no one has documented that Jun 24 03:45:21 PreRocks: epic Jun 24 03:45:40 shades: epic? as in big difference? Jun 24 03:45:47 warning: Shades has been known to practice irony _and_ sarcasm in public. Jun 24 03:45:47 my intuition feels it's not a matter of n but like, n^2 Jun 24 03:45:50 jackie: this is last line... wget: can't open 'optware-dropbear': File exists Jun 24 03:46:00 hahahahaha Jun 24 03:46:01 no, i'm serious about this brightness Jun 24 03:46:06 oh really? Jun 24 03:46:06 it was not designed to be a flashlight Jun 24 03:46:14 but it's dark in here Jun 24 03:46:15 somehow i got stuck in > prompt Jun 24 03:46:16 i'm sure it's exactly like gasoline Jun 24 03:46:23 the harder you floor it, the faster and more it burns, exponenitally Jun 24 03:46:31 slikone27: you're missing a quote Jun 24 03:46:41 :-| Jun 24 03:46:41 hmm Jun 24 03:46:43 how do i exit back to cmd line? Jun 24 03:46:48 ctrl+c Jun 24 03:46:50 ctrl c Jun 24 03:46:55 nope Jun 24 03:47:01 ' Jun 24 03:47:02 type a quote mark and hit enter Jun 24 03:47:02 but its no fun to have it down at 0-5% right, so is 20-30% brightness a good comfort zone to have, or should i learn to deal with less brightness? Jun 24 03:47:18 have it as bright as you need and charge every night Jun 24 03:47:28 ok thanks im back Jun 24 03:47:30 mine is almost always turned down as much as possible Jun 24 03:47:38 unless i'm in the direct sun and i need more Jun 24 03:47:39 jackie: what am i missing? Jun 24 03:47:52 Rick__: i guess the whole point of this goes down to this question... is it okay to charge it every night? evy night charging won't take some sort of major toll on teh battery right? Jun 24 03:47:54 i copied and pasted right from the step Jun 24 03:47:55 what is the last command you ran? Jun 24 03:48:21 it's a lithium-plastic battery. They -like- being keep topped off. they HATE deep discharging. Jun 24 03:48:21 slikone27: there is no quote in that step, so you must have hit ' when you hit enter Jun 24 03:48:28 wget http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/bl Jun 24 03:48:28 obs/raw/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jun 24 03:48:46 thebest way to treat the pre's battery is to keep it nearly topped off all the time. Jun 24 03:48:50 rick, don't ni-cads like deep discharging? Jun 24 03:49:06 lithium batteries are not like nicads. Jun 24 03:49:13 right Jun 24 03:49:24 Rick__: thanks man, thats exactly what i needed to know Jun 24 03:49:25 yes, nicads need to be -gently- deep cycled to avoid plating out needles which short circuit the battery. Jun 24 03:49:29 Lithiums do not do that. Jun 24 03:49:54 jackie: i still get wget: can't open 'optware-dropbear': File exists Jun 24 03:49:58 they HATE deep discharging. AAMOF, if you go below 50% they will never recover. So most products using liithiums do not allow you to go below 50% Jun 24 03:50:04 shades: LED backlighting has nothing to do with internal combustion engines. Jun 24 03:50:15 shades: Please stop saying total nonsense. Jun 24 03:50:17 slikone27: mount -o rw,remount / Jun 24 03:50:22 no it doesn't Jun 24 03:50:32 slikone27: wait no, cancel that Jun 24 03:50:33 but the way the juice is drained might be analogous Jun 24 03:50:38 shades: It's not. Jun 24 03:50:38 to gasoline, rather Jun 24 03:50:38 jackie: ok Jun 24 03:50:43 the power drain vs light output of led's is not exponential. Jun 24 03:50:44 jackie: already did it Jun 24 03:50:49 it's linear. Jun 24 03:50:59 you're sure about that now Jun 24 03:51:09 cause it seems to be a, lil, faster than linear Jun 24 03:51:11 Well I'm logarithmic and i'm out... thx for the help guys Jun 24 03:51:28 slikone27: what's the optput of pwd Jun 24 03:51:29 jackie: should i uninstall dropbear and reinstall? Jun 24 03:51:36 not to mention, it's already like, WAY, too bright, on the lowest brightness setting Jun 24 03:51:39 I"m very irritated Jun 24 03:51:46 I was hoping to get it like, at least 70% darker Jun 24 03:51:46 slikone27: no Jun 24 03:51:51 slikone27: what's the optput of pwd Jun 24 03:51:59 at 100% i can't even look at it it's burning so brightly Jun 24 03:52:03 it's like staring at the sun Jun 24 03:52:03 jackie: Jun 24 03:52:07 jackie: /etc/event.d Jun 24 03:52:23 slikone27: initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 24 03:52:31 shades: The "%" setting in the dialog probably corresponds to the amount of current running through the diode Jun 24 03:52:32 shades, I'm very sure. LED brightness is determined by the current flowing through the LED. Jun 24 03:52:44 jblebrun: now we're talking Jun 24 03:52:54 jackie: ok did that Jun 24 03:52:56 shades: Right, so that's linear. Jun 24 03:53:00 that % needs to get jacked the hell down... Jun 24 03:53:16 oh, i'm sorry, I thought you were talking about a variable I could alter Jun 24 03:53:17 your eyes ARE NOT LINEAR Jun 24 03:53:20 but the led is. Jun 24 03:53:20 that would make it more dim Jun 24 03:53:21 slikone27: ps aux | grep dropbear Jun 24 03:53:50 root 2501 0.0 0.2 2692 532 pts/0 S<+ 23:53 0:00 grep dropbear Jun 24 03:54:06 I've gotten my 700 to go days w/o charging like 4 or so Jun 24 03:54:11 w/ 0% brightness Jun 24 03:54:26 or whatever the minimal setting that triggered the light Jun 24 03:54:35 because you could actually shut it off entirely, the backlighting. Jun 24 03:54:42 Which was adaquate more often than not for me Jun 24 03:54:50 my 755p would shut off entirely Jun 24 03:55:03 jackie: its still not running right? Jun 24 03:55:11 slikone27: no Jun 24 03:55:21 slikone27: ls /opt/sbin/dropbear Jun 24 03:55:46 so far, this pre has been disappointing in battery life Jun 24 03:55:46 no such file or directory Jun 24 03:55:55 slikone27: ls /opt/bin/dropbear Jun 24 03:56:05 i'm wondering if there are any other tricks outside of bluetooth, wifi, brightness, for battery life Jun 24 03:56:18 because it's constantly streaming pandora 24/7 Jun 24 03:56:26 so we can just constitute that a 'given' on the battery draw Jun 24 03:56:30 oh wait Jun 24 03:56:34 and I occasionally fire up the GPS for googlemaps Jun 24 03:56:37 jackie: it says no such file or dir Jun 24 03:56:39 slikone27: ls /opt Jun 24 03:56:40 Shade -- long and good discussion here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=834054 Jun 24 03:56:48 slikone27: df /opt Jun 24 03:56:56 I don't know if my eyes have more rods or what Jun 24 03:57:00 but everything is just too bright Jun 24 03:57:07 jackie: ls gives me bin doc etc lib share Jun 24 03:57:24 ad df? Jun 24 03:57:27 and df? Jun 24 03:57:34 Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on Jun 24 03:57:34 253920 57408 196512 23% /var Jun 24 03:57:49 so that's 7gb addressble then? Jun 24 03:57:52 JackieRipper -- Rick__ is learning a lot from you tonight. Thank you for doing this. Jun 24 03:57:55 is that a programmers 7gb or a salesmans 7gb? Jun 24 03:58:10 thanks to both of you all for helping Jun 24 03:58:17 slikone27: ls /opt/bin/ipkg-opt Jun 24 03:58:19 i swear i copied and pasted each line Jun 24 03:58:51 shades wifi can IMPROVE battery life if you're in a low signal area for evdo and have good wifi connectivity, since the wifi radio can run at a LOWER POWER than the evdo radio needs to reach the tower. Jun 24 03:58:52 jackie: that only gave me... /opt/bin/ipkg-opt Jun 24 03:58:56 cool Jun 24 03:59:01 Rick__: oh REALLY ? Jun 24 03:59:08 uyes. Jun 24 03:59:10 slikone27: /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install dropbear Jun 24 03:59:10 yes Jun 24 03:59:20 wait a minute here Jun 24 03:59:26 if you have one bar of evdo, the radio has to run at FULL POWER to send information to the tower. Jun 24 03:59:31 Rick__: And also at a higher rate. So you can get things done faster. Jun 24 03:59:42 so, how's this wifi->voip->sprint's_towers wicked voodoo chain of events happen? Jun 24 03:59:43 jackie: it is downloading and installing Jun 24 03:59:49 If there's a wifi radio 10 feet from it, it can wifi at it's absolutely lowest power. So wifi can SAVE BATTERY. Jun 24 03:59:59 slikone27: that's step on on the dropbear page Jun 24 04:00:02 is this an encrypted stream? Jun 24 04:00:06 step one, that is Jun 24 04:00:08 jackie: ok its done... did alot of stuff and got a public key Jun 24 04:00:12 is WHAT an encrypted stream? Jun 24 04:00:14 can anypunk on that wifi network sniff out those packets && hear what i'm saying even if I'm not in ear shot? Jun 24 04:00:23 the voice->sprint through wifi Jun 24 04:00:26 it depends on wht's going through them. Jun 24 04:00:26 ok, move to step 2: pkill dropbear ; pkill -9 dropbear Jun 24 04:00:28 im sure i did that Jun 24 04:00:35 because the AP clearly doesn't send a signal to the towers itself Jun 24 04:00:36 voice never goes through wifi. Only data. Jun 24 04:00:47 oh well that's a given Jun 24 04:00:50 of course data's going through it Jun 24 04:00:53 I thought you were talking voice Jun 24 04:00:56 *sigh* Jun 24 04:00:59 jackie: ok... step 3 now? Jun 24 04:01:02 no shades. Jun 24 04:01:06 data. Jun 24 04:01:10 So, WIFI for voice, will not improve battery life Jun 24 04:01:12 Since he said "EvDO", he wasn't talking voice. Jun 24 04:01:14 slikone27: you can skip step 3, because you already downloaded the file Jun 24 04:01:15 But assume you're running pandora --w hich is data. Jun 24 04:01:16 is what i'm trying to say Jun 24 04:01:23 ok.. step 5? Jun 24 04:01:24 running wifi --can-- help that. Jun 24 04:01:24 with a question mark at the end of it Jun 24 04:01:38 Rick__: even if you're uusing zero data? Jun 24 04:01:39 so after the pkils, do: initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 24 04:01:44 uh Jun 24 04:01:47 and then ps aux | grep dropbear Jun 24 04:01:54 brb Jun 24 04:01:57 smoke break Jun 24 04:02:08 JackieRipper: quit holdin out Jun 24 04:02:14 jackie: ok now root 2726 0.0 0.2 1988 656 ? Ss 00:01 0:00 /opt/sbin/dropbear -g -F -p 222 Jun 24 04:02:15 root 2734 0.0 0.2 2692 532 pts/0 S<+ 00:01 0:00 grep dropbear Jun 24 04:02:20 now it's apparnt where you're elite linux skills come from ;) Jun 24 04:02:24 no. if you're using zero data, and you're not getting email, and you're not texting, and you're not doing any data at all whatsoever, then having wifi on is bad. Jun 24 04:02:31 * treesloth sends greets Jun 24 04:02:38 Rick__: okay, that's what I wanted to make sure of Jun 24 04:02:54 cutting wifi && bluetooth && gps will improve battery life Jun 24 04:02:57 if you're only awaiting fonecalls Jun 24 04:03:00 slikone27: it's running Jun 24 04:03:02 yes. Jun 24 04:03:09 try logging in as your user using ssh Jun 24 04:03:19 but for most people wanting to use the Pre, that's an a-typical situation. Jun 24 04:03:43 jackie: slikone27@castle:~$ Jun 24 04:03:52 Rick__: it happens more often than you'd think Jun 24 04:03:54 jackie: yay!! fianlly Jun 24 04:03:59 you're not texting 24/7 Jun 24 04:04:03 Does the GPS burn any energy if you're not using a location-aware app? Jun 24 04:04:09 unless you are, then you should be infront a fullsize keyboard ;) Jun 24 04:04:20 jblebrun: I'd love to hope not Jun 24 04:04:27 jackie and rick: thanks for all your help!! I swear i did not skip step 1 Jun 24 04:04:28 but I think I'm noticing an improved battery life if it's off Jun 24 04:04:42 Is there anyone that I should ask about setting up the wallpaper changer script? Jun 24 04:04:50 slikone27, sometimes when you paste it doesn't paste right Jun 24 04:04:50 jblebrun: yes it does, it's constantly processing signals it gets from the sattelites Jun 24 04:04:52 is it possible i did it and it didnt run correct or did i really miss it Jun 24 04:05:11 i didn't skip part 4 of step 2a but it certainly seemed that way yesterday Jun 24 04:05:19 jblebrun: if it's on you have to remember, not only you can find you, but other people can find you faster Jun 24 04:05:25 plus electronically, that entire chip is energized Jun 24 04:05:34 because having to triangulate your position using cellular towers is going to take way longer than tracking a gps signal Jun 24 04:05:42 jackie: i can unmount and reboot the phone now correct? Jun 24 04:05:49 jackie: and turn off dev mode? Jun 24 04:06:02 slikone27: yes Jun 24 04:06:26 shades: Uhhhh, no. Jun 24 04:06:50 again... thanks to you both for your help Jun 24 04:06:52 jblebrun: you're sure about that? Jun 24 04:06:52 Would anyone more familiar with javascript than I care to look help me debug a bit of code? Jun 24 04:07:08 shades: Unless I'm explicity broadcasting my GPS coordinates, no one will know them. Jun 24 04:07:09 It is driving me *crazy* Jun 24 04:07:19 jackie, throw it up in pastebin and show it Jun 24 04:07:26 i doubt i could fix it, but show it anyway Jun 24 04:07:27 jblebrun: you're giving way too much faith in the security of our pres here Jun 24 04:07:51 although, i'm sure if someones managed to remotely root it, turning on gps is no thing\ Jun 24 04:07:53 someone want to throw my app into IPK? Jun 24 04:07:53 http://webos.pastebin.com/d7e60e3da and http://webos.pastebin.com/d4cc6cf73 Jun 24 04:07:57 i havent done any in a while but i shouldnt be that rusty Jun 24 04:08:19 this pack manager Jun 24 04:08:28 who is the arbitrary entity Jun 24 04:08:40 who adds/removes packages from the listing Jun 24 04:08:48 it can't be any ole sally joe or john Jun 24 04:08:57 shades: you're referring to optware? or something else? Jun 24 04:09:12 I'm not sure Jun 24 04:09:23 I haven't been in a position to play with it enough to know the differences Jun 24 04:09:32 I'm not sure what's available, I was just suprised to hear one existed Jun 24 04:09:39 it was like a 'too-good-thing-to-hear' Jun 24 04:10:10 it's all so automated, not like, back in the day, when kernels took like, days to weeks to compile Jun 24 04:10:28 Hey can anyone point me to more information about how this mysterious novacom thing works? I'm interested in getting it working on linux or 64 bit windows Jun 24 04:10:42 sb107, good day, sir! Jun 24 04:10:53 you can see my git project Jun 24 04:10:56 it has some information Jun 24 04:11:14 sb107, http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/precomd/ Jun 24 04:11:15 http://predev.wikidot.com/using-novaproxy Jun 24 04:11:19 sb107 ^ Jun 24 04:11:23 cool, I'll check it out Jun 24 04:11:29 i have no problem explaining more about novacom(d) Jun 24 04:12:02 anyone have a second to look at a cron problem? I Jun 24 04:12:12 thanks, I'll read whats there and then ask questions once I have some Jun 24 04:12:12 'm trying to set up the wallpaper changer... Jun 24 04:12:13 treesloth: maybe Jun 24 04:12:18 what's wrong Jun 24 04:12:32 hey guys how can i get a clear pic of my phones UI? is there some sorta way of doing it Jun 24 04:12:33 I followed the instructions for the wallpaper changer... Jun 24 04:12:50 It just comes down to this: I can run the script manually, no problems. Jun 24 04:13:14 has anyone been able to compile FCEUX? Jun 24 04:13:17 Just for fun, I ran it from a script, sleeping the script after each change for 10 seconds. Jun 24 04:13:20 i made my keyboard and everything black/blue looks hot i wanna take a pic of it.. Jun 24 04:13:21 That also worked. Jun 24 04:13:33 THe only thing that doesn't work is running it in a cron. Jun 24 04:13:34 treesloth: is crond running? Jun 24 04:13:52 It was... lemme make sure it survived the reboot... Jun 24 04:13:53 treesloth: ps -aef | grep cron Jun 24 04:13:55 StrengthFreak: Orange+Shift+P (http://preguides.wikidot.com/keyboard-tips) Jun 24 04:13:57 i'm bewildered as to how to download the fceux package into the debian chroot Jun 24 04:15:03 Technobabble: any ideas? Jun 24 04:15:15 ok, maybe I asked for help too soon... Jun 24 04:15:44 I redid the cron, saved it, waited, and saw nothing... then I went crying for help... Jun 24 04:15:46 so it works now eh? Jun 24 04:15:51 But now it's working. Jun 24 04:16:01 start crond upon booting Jun 24 04:16:05 treesloth: did you update to 1.0.3? Jun 24 04:16:07 is thatin rc.d/ or what's the deal w/ that Jun 24 04:16:12 Yes, I did. Jun 24 04:16:20 shades: it's in /etc/event.d Jun 24 04:16:21 etc/rc.d/ or what? Jun 24 04:16:27 ok Jun 24 04:16:29 that's /werird/ Jun 24 04:16:32 but whatever Jun 24 04:16:44 awesome... well, thanks for considering the problem :-) Jun 24 04:16:51 treesloth: the update removed the crontab and replaced the crontab event.d script, making it no longer run at boot Jun 24 04:17:08 ooh nice, a protocol doc, thanks bpadalino Jun 24 04:17:08 it's toally awesome, when someone's question, is answered with a question. Jun 24 04:17:16 pastebin url? Jun 24 04:17:25 JackieRipper, what's wrong with it? Jun 24 04:17:29 sb107, it's still incomplete - but it's more information than i could find elsewhere Jun 24 04:17:43 yeah its better than what I've turned up as of yet Jun 24 04:17:46 sb107, if you git clone and "make linux" with libusb installed, you can start talking to the pre Jun 24 04:17:57 cross compile for ffmpeg is failing for me Jun 24 04:17:58 beatiful Jun 24 04:18:02 has anyone gotten it to work? Jun 24 04:18:04 Ah, good to know... So, once I go back out of dev mode, should I expect to have to restart the crontab? Jun 24 04:18:05 I'll give it a try now Jun 24 04:18:06 but i have yet gotten the motivation to finish it up and get to the pmux portion Jun 24 04:18:15 sb107, it will be interesting to see what happens! Jun 24 04:18:19 Technobabble: I call it like so: var messageTone = SoundalertsAssistant.getMessagetone(); Jun 24 04:18:28 has anyone bricked their pre yet? Jun 24 04:18:30 yet it always returns '' Jun 24 04:18:35 just wondering :-P Jun 24 04:18:36 sb107, seems the web doctor can fix most everything Jun 24 04:18:40 twice now tonight my phone has rebooted...the first time it threw up the critical battery notification, but when it rebooted the charge was at 88% Jun 24 04:18:43 wtf? Jun 24 04:18:59 is your battery seated properly? Jun 24 04:19:00 and I'm positive the proper db entry is there: messagetone|{ "fullPath": "\/media\/internal\/ringtones\/letsgo.mp3", "name": "letsgo.mp3" } Jun 24 04:19:02 sb107, there is also a boot loader that shows up when you hold volume up and plug your pre into USB from an off state Jun 24 04:19:05 are teh contacts nice and clean? Jun 24 04:19:08 if so you'[ve got a defect Jun 24 04:19:12 I have heard of loose battery issues Jun 24 04:19:24 my battery is super tight - i can barely yank it Jun 24 04:19:31 i'm pretty pissed, I put a small cip into the screen Jun 24 04:19:36 it's noticible, but not significant Jun 24 04:19:37 No bricking yet, but for some reason mine just wouldn't accept the talk.py... always failed... fixed that, though... Jun 24 04:20:10 I hate trying to take the back off....makes me nervous, I'll see if I can make it sit better or something Jun 24 04:20:24 http://webos.pastebin.com/mfce719e Jun 24 04:20:32 sugardave: just remember to do it like a bandaid, in quick swift motion Jun 24 04:21:50 shades: Optware (http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/) is managed by the nslu2-linux.org project, which I lead (see http://www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf for details). 'eno' does most of the updates to the packages contained therein, but anyone can become an optware developer. Jun 24 04:22:15 bt to get it submitted to the tree it needs approval? Jun 24 04:22:35 the barrier we have is that you need to be able to write a makefile fragment. Jun 24 04:22:45 (and it needs to be an open source program) Jun 24 04:22:48 in what lang? Jun 24 04:22:59 it's not a Pre GUI application store or anything. Jun 24 04:23:09 heavens no Jun 24 04:23:10 shades: any programming language. Jun 24 04:23:20 depends on the program's author Jun 24 04:23:25 that's cool Jun 24 04:23:30 rick: you still here? Jun 24 04:23:36 Oh, quick question about the cron... It appears that the output of the script is being redirected into the script: Jun 24 04:23:37 so, how'd you manage to get optware to be the prefered package manager for the pre? Jun 24 04:23:37 Optware is simply repacking all the existing open source applications that are already available for Linux Jun 24 04:23:41 /opt/share/wallswitcher/wallswitcher.sh > /opt/share/wallswitcher/wallswitcher.log 2>&1 Jun 24 04:23:44 are you on the actual dev team? Jun 24 04:23:59 shades: same way you do anything - build something that works. Jun 24 04:24:11 It seems to make more sense to just do: Jun 24 04:24:11 /opt/share/wallswitcher/wallswitcher.log 2>&1 Jun 24 04:24:13 I lead the optware team, but eno does 95% of the work. Jun 24 04:24:27 Why that redirection into itself (sort of...)? Jun 24 04:24:33 I can clearly say you're a good leader then ;) Jun 24 04:24:42 treesloth: one ends in ".sh" the other in ".log" Jun 24 04:24:48 why was optware chosen? Jun 24 04:24:52 versus like, emerge or something Jun 24 04:24:59 or whatever redhat/suse are using Jun 24 04:25:02 **centos Jun 24 04:25:06 jackie: what do i need to do to use vi to edit a file? it says its read only Jun 24 04:25:19 jackie: sorry not very good at linux Jun 24 04:25:22 slikone27: chmod Jun 24 04:25:24 ahh... I should really read those words that are on that screen thingee in front of me... Jun 24 04:25:25 slikone27: mount -o romount,rw / Jun 24 04:25:35 oh Jun 24 04:25:39 you're talking about mouting the drive Jun 24 04:25:41 give the remount instead Jun 24 04:25:47 hrmm no idea why ffmpeg is failing to build Jun 24 04:25:59 whats up party peoples? Jun 24 04:25:59 jackie: thanks... then to change it back when im done? Jun 24 04:26:07 slikone27: yes Jun 24 04:26:19 when it boots, the rootfs will be mounted ro Jun 24 04:26:28 to make changes, you need to mount it rw Jun 24 04:26:50 JackieRipper: you tell em! Jun 24 04:26:54 jackie: so as soon as i reboot it changes back? i dont have to do anything? Jun 24 04:27:03 slikone27: yes Jun 24 04:27:20 jackie: ok... as my user i have to run that with sudo correct? Jun 24 04:27:23 JackieRipper: you can, change that though, right? Jun 24 04:27:33 that's setup in the startupfile? Jun 24 04:27:49 shades: not sure you can remount / though Jun 24 04:28:03 slikone27: yes Jun 24 04:28:38 cphelps: mount -o remount,rw / and mount -o remount,ro / work consistently Jun 24 04:28:44 cool, precomd apparently can talk to my pre Jun 24 04:28:55 sb107, yay! Jun 24 04:28:58 i write good c code Jun 24 04:28:59 :) Jun 24 04:29:06 lol nice Jun 24 04:29:13 JackieRipper: of course they do, but that doesn't mean you can do it from a startup script Jun 24 04:29:14 yea, i'm not sure if C apps will run the fastest Jun 24 04:29:19 sb107, feel free to hack away at it .. Jun 24 04:29:26 what language will apps run the fastest anyone know? Jun 24 04:29:29 will do Jun 24 04:29:29 cphelps: you could change /etc/fstab Jun 24 04:29:31 bpadalino: you are free from the work nick Jun 24 04:29:35 jackie: i got an error... mount: mounting rootfs on / failed: No such file or directory Jun 24 04:29:36 but why would you want to? Jun 24 04:29:39 shades: what do you mean? Jun 24 04:29:41 cphelps: i am indeed not at work Jun 24 04:29:48 JackieRipper: incase you're testing for stuff that requires frequent reboots Jun 24 04:29:49 JackieRipper: no offense, but I don't really need advice Jun 24 04:29:54 slikone27: cat /etc/fstab Jun 24 04:29:54 shades: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ Jun 24 04:29:56 I don't want to have to type all that crap in each time, those keys are small! Jun 24 04:30:02 cphelps: ahh cool Jun 24 04:30:08 bpadalino: does that mean you can hack! Jun 24 04:30:23 !!! Jun 24 04:30:25 cphelps: and none taken :) Jun 24 04:30:32 jackie: Jun 24 04:30:32 rootfs / ext3 ro,suid,dev,exec,auto,nouser,async,noatime 1 1 Jun 24 04:30:32 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 Jun 24 04:30:32 devpts /dev/pts devpts mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 Jun 24 04:30:32 tmpfs /tmp tmpfs size=64M,mode=1777 0 0 Jun 24 04:30:33 tmpfs /media/ram tmpfs defaults 0 0 Jun 24 04:30:34 maybe for another 15 minutes .. it's way past my bed time anyway Jun 24 04:30:34 shades: I chose optware cause it is optimised for small memory systems, and installs everything in /opt so it doesn't collide with the vendor files Jun 24 04:30:36 it's 12:30a! Jun 24 04:30:47 bpadalino: do something extraordinary tonight, eh? Jun 24 04:31:07 shades: optware does the same job on about 20 other embedded devices like routers, NAS boxes, etc ... Jun 24 04:31:12 nothing extraordinary Jun 24 04:31:17 slikone27: and the mount command you ran was exactly: mount -o remount,rw / Jun 24 04:31:18 i never do anything extraordinary Jun 24 04:31:19 :) Jun 24 04:32:32 jackie: oops... i pretty sure i copied what you told me but it said romount Jun 24 04:32:33 rwhitby: ... you chose optware; did i interpret that correctly then? Jun 24 04:32:37 instead of remount Jun 24 04:32:41 you must be lead of the pre team too Jun 24 04:32:44 slikone27: oops Jun 24 04:32:48 bpadalino: I don't believe you. You give good advise if nothing else Jun 24 04:32:49 if you chose optware for the hardware? Jun 24 04:32:56 thanks Jun 24 04:32:56 I did Jun 24 04:32:59 sorry, typo Jun 24 04:33:13 jblebrun: man, that's a cop out answer ;p Jun 24 04:33:17 jackie: thanks for your help... no problem if it wasnt for you i would still be stuck Jun 24 04:33:27 whatever takes less code to run is going to run more efficiently right? Jun 24 04:33:36 shades: Uh, no. Jun 24 04:33:48 nope Jun 24 04:33:52 what the hell confucios say "simplest way best!" Jun 24 04:33:53 jackie: anything windows related i am good... just not linux. my job is actually network eng/admin but all windows Jun 24 04:33:55 shades: that is patently false Jun 24 04:34:02 does anyone know what RDXREPORTER is ? Jun 24 04:34:04 shades: optware is not a Palm thing Jun 24 04:34:10 I'm not related to Palm Jun 24 04:34:14 oh Jun 24 04:34:20 so it's part of the root package then? Jun 24 04:34:22 Palm chose ipkg, which Optware happens to use too. Jun 24 04:34:34 shades: confusious say, I'm smarter than you, so whatever way I find is best. Jun 24 04:34:38 bless their hearts Jun 24 04:34:40 Palm chose OpenEmbedded, which I've had a lot of experience with too. Jun 24 04:34:46 cphelps: what can run in x lines of code isn't going to consume less battery life with x-y lines of code if it does the same thing? Jun 24 04:35:12 shades: it depends entirely on the number of cycles consumed by N lines of code Jun 24 04:35:17 shads: Lines of code is a bogus metric. Jun 24 04:35:25 anyone? rdxreporter? Jun 24 04:35:30 Optware fit the job perfectly, so I made it work. The community chooses whether to use it or not. Jun 24 04:35:31 shades: and that changes by language and by arch Jun 24 04:35:36 occam's razor in full effect Jun 24 04:35:41 yes it does Jun 24 04:35:59 so what's it's boiling down to is, what's going to take the least code && least cpu cycles Jun 24 04:35:59 as close as we can get Jun 24 04:36:24 i'm sure a larger program with redundant code that's consuming the same amount of cycles as a smaller program, would still end up draining the battery faster? Jun 24 04:36:28 jackie: i still get file is read only Jun 24 04:36:34 you know uh.. consuming all that extra space in memory Jun 24 04:36:42 slikone27: which file? Jun 24 04:36:46 jackie: i am trying to add the add page and remove page to the launcher Jun 24 04:36:47 cycles = power Jun 24 04:37:01 fewer cycles = more juice Jun 24 04:37:01 * rwhitby bbl Jun 24 04:37:04 slikone27: use sudo before each command Jun 24 04:37:04 the less bits toggle, the less power Jun 24 04:37:04 oh Jun 24 04:37:11 i thought it ran at a fixed rate Jun 24 04:37:17 jackie: so sudo vi? Jun 24 04:37:36 aren't you suppose to sudo -e Jun 24 04:37:39 \not sudo vi Jun 24 04:38:39 simplyflipflops: so you're not choosing the clockrate between cycles then? Jun 24 04:38:45 it's just goignt to keep chugging at max? Jun 24 04:38:48 slikone27: yes, sudo vi filename Jun 24 04:38:52 shades: sudo vi seemed to work Jun 24 04:38:58 jackie: thanks Jun 24 04:39:01 JackieRipper: yea but i think that's not proper protocol Jun 24 04:39:03 if you read the man pages Jun 24 04:39:05 for sudo Jun 24 04:39:15 is sudo -e any diff? Jun 24 04:39:31 I don't know what kind of wicked riff in time and space happens if you 'sudo vi' but it works.. Jun 24 04:39:35 It's suppose to be sudo Jun 24 04:39:48 I don't know if sudo vi, does weirds things for your stuff running in active memory like buffers Jun 24 04:39:56 ok... so technically i should do sudo -e? Jun 24 04:39:57 may or may not leave stuff in memory which can be exploited Jun 24 04:40:03 I always sudo -e Jun 24 04:40:04 shades: You are uttering absolute bullocks again. Jun 24 04:40:20 becfause I was told I'd burn in hell otehrwise Jun 24 04:40:22 lol Jun 24 04:40:28 shades: thanks... when i reboot i should be good after doing sudo vi correct? Jun 24 04:40:31 shades: agreed with jblebrun Jun 24 04:40:47 slikone27: sudo -e works, too Jun 24 04:41:00 they were being quite serious when they said to always sudo -e and not sudo vi Jun 24 04:41:03 jackie: thanks Jun 24 04:41:18 thanks all... i will get the hang of this eventually Jun 24 04:41:23 sure the ends are the same, but i'm sure the means are quite different Jun 24 04:41:24 maybe Jun 24 04:41:31 Oh boy do I love this phone :) Jun 24 04:41:57 anyone know what rdxd / rdxreporter is ? crash reporter ? Jun 24 04:42:21 jblebrun: yea well I'm not saying you're going to cause youre system to get rooted or anything by a local user who happens to be logged in at the time Jun 24 04:42:35 Maybe someone here can help me out, I rooted my phone without a problem, I'm enabling SFTP access, worked fine, one last thing I noticed on the predev wiki for SFTP access is the very last line of the page that reads: Jun 24 04:42:37 but until i read up about the specifics I'm going to stick with what sudo says to do in the manual Jun 24 04:42:38 Be sure to set "mount -o remount,rw /" to write and "mount -o remount,ro /" when done. (If on Windows, do this through PuTTY. I haven't found a way to do it through WinSCP, but you can go to "Commands>Open in PuTTY" from the main toolbar.) Jun 24 04:42:39 showergel, i don't know - but i wish someone would figure it out .. Jun 24 04:42:46 i dont know if sudo vi caused it... but i got disconnected from my ssh session once i saved Jun 24 04:43:07 a system handles the file differently i'm pretty sure, when you just do sudo vi Jun 24 04:43:09 Will a hard reset completely restore a rooted Pre? Jun 24 04:43:20 slikone27: plug your shit in, and that wont happen Jun 24 04:43:41 Do I need to type those commands in putty before and after my SFTP session? Jun 24 04:44:08 cphelps: even plugged in it seemed to do it so I have been running music while working on it Jun 24 04:44:13 gnight everyone. off to bed Jun 24 04:44:23 bpadalino: my pre's been having at it for the last 10 minutes with it. the app never ran until I had an unexpected shutdown.. i saw everything from bzip to rdxreporter, rdxd, uploadd also running thereafter Jun 24 04:44:24 Nrbelex: no, it will be as you left it mostly Jun 24 04:45:01 hey hey! I'm connecting through my Pre's WiFi Ad-Hoc tether! Jun 24 04:45:02 it works! Jun 24 04:45:03 interesting Jun 24 04:45:13 slikone27: I hacked the browser apps for over 9 hours today. It works Jun 24 04:45:16 cphelps, thanks, After rooting, is there any way to restore a Pre to factory state? Jun 24 04:45:21 Wonder420: not here, dude Jun 24 04:45:27 still? Jun 24 04:45:31 Wonder420: never. Jun 24 04:45:31 and file_indexer .. or something to that nature Jun 24 04:45:39 Would anyone more familiar with javascript than I care to look help me debug a bit of code? The DB query is driving me crazy. Jun 24 04:45:50 they took the "no tether" mention off the front page Jun 24 04:45:58 Wonder420: this is kind of the palm official spot since cdw is here Jun 24 04:46:00 or the fact that it's not returning what it should Jun 24 04:46:13 Wonder420: Did you read the topic of the IRC channel that you've just joined? Jun 24 04:46:25 honor all NDA's? Jun 24 04:46:39 JackieRipper: what is the problem? Jun 24 04:46:41 Keep reading. Jun 24 04:46:55 Wonder420: "...No discussion of tethering please..." Jun 24 04:47:02 JackieRipper: I wrote a new DB-connected scene, today... Jun 24 04:47:03 ok sorry Jun 24 04:47:08 With Linux scrips do they have to be formatted a specific way with white space and tabs and such? Jun 24 04:47:19 or is like C and all that is thrown out Jun 24 04:47:38 cphelps: I'm attempting to make "messagetone" a separate sound from "alerttone" Jun 24 04:47:38 Ahchoo: no formatting Jun 24 04:47:50 'that thing that we shall not discuss' works good, but now my my Pre says "please connect to a Network" when I try to use it's browser Jun 24 04:47:56 damn... :-( having trouble getting that tracking script to work then... Jun 24 04:48:07 cphelps: I've modified the Sound settings app, and it properly records the entry in the db Jun 24 04:48:09 JackieRipper: dunno about that hack, sorry. Been on the browser app mostly Jun 24 04:48:10 thanks all... going to sleep now. work in like 5 hours Jun 24 04:48:20 Wonder420: Please stop. Jun 24 04:48:27 cphelps: It's my hack... Jun 24 04:48:46 the db write is fine Jun 24 04:48:59 it's the query for the file path in the mssaging app Jun 24 04:49:17 query for the media file? Jun 24 04:49:19 that is failing, and I'm sure it's just my js syntax Jun 24 04:49:27 bpadalino, hey, I got autoconf|automake working with the app Jun 24 04:49:34 gaffo, yay! Jun 24 04:49:43 http://webos.pastebin.com/d7e60e3da and http://webos.pastebin.com/d4cc6cf73 Jun 24 04:49:48 bpadalino, I wanted you to try it out on a mac Jun 24 04:49:52 gaffo, someone else in the channel asked about linux and the program worked for him Jun 24 04:49:55 gaffo, ok Jun 24 04:50:01 gaffo, how was the flight ? Jun 24 04:50:06 JackieRipper: which hackis that? Jun 24 04:50:12 bpadalino, not bad. only had power 1/2 of the way Jun 24 04:50:16 ah Jun 24 04:50:25 bpadalino, which program? Jun 24 04:50:29 precomd Jun 24 04:50:31 good day all, I was wondering. Is sqlite on the pre or a part of webos? Jun 24 04:50:37 shades: I haven't put it on the wiki yet, as it currently doesn't work Jun 24 04:50:42 brontos, its on the pre Jun 24 04:50:48 sqlite3 Jun 24 04:51:05 bpadalino: ahh fantastic news! Jun 24 04:51:16 bpadalino, it runs for me as well, or used to, autoconf / automake will just make it easier to do all of the library / app / install type stuff on multi platforms much easier Jun 24 04:51:41 gaffo, excellent Jun 24 04:51:53 now hopefully I will be able to get my hands on mojo Jun 24 04:52:00 hold on boys, muh lady says I need to eat Jun 24 04:52:05 bpadalino, so I can either push to master and you can roll it back out if it doesn't work, or I can send you patch files Jun 24 04:52:15 gaffo, push it Jun 24 04:52:19 gaffo, we can always revert Jun 24 04:52:39 kk Jun 24 04:53:03 bpadalino, pushed Jun 24 04:53:05 JackieRipper: er but what is it for? Jun 24 04:53:12 i'm kinda away from the chat a minute Jun 24 04:53:16 bpadalino, run ./autogen.sh, ./configure, make Jun 24 04:53:44 pulling Jun 24 04:54:09 haha, lots more files Jun 24 04:54:14 it allows one to specify a separate sound for messaging than for other alerts, so the same tone doesn't play for a text message and and charging, for example Jun 24 04:54:50 bpadalino, yeah, autoconf wants about 8 files, mostly standard stuff, like readme, news, and the copying (license) which I think we need to fill in Jun 24 04:55:21 hrmm .. couldn't find my libusb installation .. Jun 24 04:56:18 hrm Jun 24 04:56:26 you have the devel obviously Jun 24 04:57:02 ok, I rewrote the download code to prompt user to be sure they actually want to download the file Jun 24 04:57:09 bpadalino, go to configure.ac and comment out line 12 with a #, and try that again Jun 24 04:57:16 hrmm .. couldn't find usb.h .. probably my environment is wrong Jun 24 04:57:17 hold on Jun 24 04:57:23 kk Jun 24 04:57:28 bpadalino, which step did it fail on? Jun 24 04:57:31 not sure the best way to share it, it involve adding a few new files :-/ Jun 24 04:57:40 checking for usb_init in -lusb... no Jun 24 04:57:45 but it didn't error out ? Jun 24 04:57:53 the make failed Jun 24 04:58:02 well, good news, the update manager does some certificate validation, it won't make requests of my MITM web server because it doesn't know my certificate. now, if I can only install it.. Jun 24 04:58:04 because it didn't -I the place where usb.h is Jun 24 04:59:34 hrm, I had some issues doing libraries. Jun 24 04:59:46 mdklein: Just make a unified diff Jun 24 04:59:48 bpadalino, is that the standard place for usb to be installed on mac? Jun 24 05:01:10 JackieRipper: oh that's kinda cool Jun 24 05:01:13 but in retrospect Jun 24 05:01:22 the sms sound I get would be cool to play for when it's plugged into the wall as well Jun 24 05:01:28 gaddo, looks good! Jun 24 05:01:30 jblebrun: will do, in the meantime I put up snippets http://predev.wikidot.com/downloading-from-the-browser I think I remembered to include everything Jun 24 05:01:35 which is the sound that happens in zelda when you discover a secret Jun 24 05:01:41 it's never tiring and never gets old Jun 24 05:02:04 8 D Jun 24 05:06:22 shades: I use my phone as a pager when I'm on call. I need a nice loud, long message tone, but I'd rather not hear it every time I plug in the phone Jun 24 05:06:23 so...tethering Jun 24 05:06:24 is it cool or is it whack Jun 24 05:06:42 MTW: NOO!!!!! Jun 24 05:06:57 when will the "Pimp My Pre Ringtone Manager" be ready for dl? Jun 24 05:07:14 * destinal_ points at the topic Jun 24 05:07:20 JamesBaud: it isn't already? Jun 24 05:07:57 here's an interesting fact. accept an invalid / self-signed certificate for any site and it'll work for every site (wow) Jun 24 05:08:00 APP REMOVED UNTIL DELETE ISSUE IS FIXED! Jun 24 05:08:17 ahhh Jun 24 05:08:22 it still won't work in the update manager :( Jun 24 05:08:43 I'm trying to replicate the functionality by hacking the stock apps Jun 24 05:14:33 gaffo_laptop: cool, so you're our autoconf expert? ;-) Jun 24 05:14:46 rwhitby, HA! Jun 24 05:14:53 rwhitby, but I'm learning :) Jun 24 05:15:06 rwhitby, there's other c/c++ stuff we're doing? Jun 24 05:15:35 gaffo_laptop: lots of c/c++ stuff in optware ;-) Jun 24 05:16:03 rwhitby, but it's all already done, right? Jun 24 05:16:09 rwhitby, currently nothing new Jun 24 05:16:29 gaffo_laptop: there's always stuff being added to optware Jun 24 05:16:47 rwhitby, well, maybe after I get the driver workin :) Jun 24 05:17:08 rwhitby, bout time for me to go to bed. later man Jun 24 05:17:20 ciao Jun 24 05:17:46 rwhitby, I thought aussies said cheers Jun 24 05:18:12 all aussies on tv, maybe :-) Jun 24 05:18:28 if you'd given me a beer, it would have been "cheers" Jun 24 05:20:43 rwhitby, my footy teemates say cheers when heading out Jun 24 05:21:10 gaffo_laptop: are they drinking beer while heading out? :) Jun 24 05:21:11 ah, that's cause they're going to have beers after the game ;-) Jun 24 05:21:27 no, when they're heading out after beers after the game :) Jun 24 05:23:04 gaffo_laptop: right - any time beer is involved, it's "cheers" :-) Jun 24 05:23:22 aah Jun 24 05:23:36 rwhitby, thanks for the clarification Jun 24 05:23:40 night Jun 24 05:25:49 k, another quick question. what is the difference between alerts and notifications? any way to change sounds for sms and email seprately? Jun 24 05:27:42 peazley: I'm working on it Jun 24 05:27:56 cool. seems like a big oversight... Jun 24 05:28:06 literally testing the code as I type Jun 24 05:29:22 what is the difference between an alert and a notification? I don't even know how to set an alert, I've heard them both... Jun 24 05:29:29 man, the global search addons made rooting the pre worth it Jun 24 05:30:03 my only problem I had was that if I removed twitter from the global search, launcher would crash... Jun 24 05:30:28 I figure I just need to remove every instance in the code then it would work, didn't have time to check everything over though Jun 24 05:31:03 someone really needs to write a python script which generates the global search files based on selected providers ... Jun 24 05:31:50 Did you modify all 3 files? Jun 24 05:32:24 or just the expanded-searches-div.html file? Jun 24 05:32:55 yep. when I would take out twitter, using the same bits of code that I copied for the rest of them it would not launch correctly and freeze. putting it back in and they all worked fine.... Jun 24 05:33:06 weird Jun 24 05:33:07 ok, here's something interesting. http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar that I was looking at, thinking it was 1.0.0, is actually 1.0.3 now Jun 24 05:33:13 they've updated it Jun 24 05:33:18 oh, cool. Jun 24 05:33:37 should we be using the updated one? Jun 24 05:33:45 we need to keep md5sums, so we can tell. Jun 24 05:33:46 though there is a style problem with one of the dividing lines between two of my global search links... just pushed down for some weird reason... Jun 24 05:33:55 well, cool, on the one hand, but I need to revert and may be screwed. Jun 24 05:34:17 Sounds like you messed up expanded-searches-div.html file? Jun 24 05:35:47 I was trying to monitor the update process and ended up updated, and unfortunately I don't have an old copy of the doctor to go back to update again Jun 24 05:37:34 and there may be some other reason we want to revert Jun 24 05:38:03 I'm sure plenty of people here still have a 1.0.2 copy, and have now been alerted to save that copy ... Jun 24 05:39:09 md5sum webosdoctorp100ewwsprint-1.0.2.jar Jun 24 05:39:10 4b3e396f8b1f1c5d3388e3c298af0484 webosdoctorp100ewwsprint-1.0.2.jar Jun 24 05:39:35 0c8027b5a707eb0d02b1997d48021bd5 webosdoctorp100ewwsprint-1.0.3.jar Jun 24 05:40:38 I wonder if a bindiff would be fair use? sigh Jun 24 05:40:39 where are you getting those jars from? Jun 24 05:40:50 PreGame: just renamed the download Jun 24 05:41:13 PreGame: renamed versions of the saved URL above, different times, different versions Jun 24 05:41:22 ahhh Jun 24 05:41:25 i haven't been doing that Jun 24 05:41:31 i thought it was always the same Jun 24 05:41:37 I don't think we were expecting it to change until just now :) Jun 24 05:42:36 i'm a little pissed i cant forward txt messages Jun 24 05:43:08 * rwhitby writes http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions Jun 24 05:44:41 done Jun 24 05:45:28 good deal. anyone know if the license on the firmware image lets us redistribute it unmodified? Jun 24 05:46:21 no specific license allowing redistribution, so we need to assume it is not allowed. Jun 24 05:47:29 wsup people Jun 24 05:47:40 new doctor version Jun 24 05:47:50 whats in it Jun 24 05:47:50 ? Jun 24 05:47:55 1.0.3 Jun 24 05:48:32 anyone gotten a webserver to run? i've been trying lighttpd, but must not have things configured properly or something Jun 24 05:48:47 reports of thttpd and nginx working Jun 24 05:49:41 actually it comes with this license Jun 24 05:49:42 RESTRICTIONS: The Software is licensed for use only with the single Palm device you originally purchased, and you may not distribute or make the Software available over a network or for use with multiple devices. The Software and supporting documentation may be copied only as necessary for backup or archive purposes in support of your use of the Software. Jun 24 05:49:46 alas Jun 24 05:50:00 there you go. thanks. Jun 24 05:52:12 rwhitby, I have php-thttpd running Jun 24 05:54:17 success Jun 24 05:54:35 I did a dirty hack to get it to download unknown files instead of opening them Jun 24 05:54:44 (which caused endless loop) Jun 24 05:54:52 nice! Jun 24 05:55:01 I'm not sure it's going to be valid in all cases yet, but I'll post it Jun 24 05:55:18 i'll give it a shot when you do Jun 24 05:55:20 mdklein: post it up maybe we can mod it and fix it up Jun 24 05:57:00 * rwhitby does a diff from 1.0.2 to 1.0.3 for http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions Jun 24 05:58:22 any1 wanna be a lifesaver and send me the defualt dial-button.png? i forgot to back it up :*( Jun 24 05:58:58 StrengthFreak: it's in the doctor .jar Jun 24 05:59:22 oh cool where can i get that? Jun 24 05:59:51 the link rwhitby just included has the URL :) Jun 24 06:00:24 you'll have to unzip the jar and then extract multiple levels of tarballs Jun 24 06:00:31 hemna: did you have to change iptables stuff to access files hosted by thttpd? I can access my default index.html on the Pre's web browser by navigating to its wifi IP, but lightttpd won't serve it to my computer's web browser Jun 24 06:00:51 ok thanks alot Jun 24 06:01:09 searedice: Jun 24 06:01:13 you have to open the port Jun 24 06:02:49 where is iptables config located on this distribution? Jun 24 06:06:41 Only in 1.0.3: /com/palm/nova/installer/core: DesktopDriversMgr$OffloadedStreamReader.class Jun 24 06:06:41 Only in 1.0.3: /com/palm/nova/installer/core: SuperToolUtilities.class Jun 24 06:06:41 Only in 1.0.3: /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle/usr/palm/applications: com.palm.app.ondevicedemo Jun 24 06:06:49 only three new files in 1.0.3 compared to 1.0.2 Jun 24 06:06:52 hey whats good Jun 24 06:07:12 There, I think fixed a palm browser bug Jun 24 06:07:23 ^5 Jun 24 06:08:06 i had a wiki edit on that indyn dns.. Jun 24 06:08:16 can someone verify the issue. Jun 24 06:08:26 IS it really necessary to type mount -o remount,rw / and ro before and after SFTP sessions? Jun 24 06:09:04 s0urce i would Jun 24 06:09:17 i ran in to kernel panics about a week ago.. Jun 24 06:10:01 * rwhitby adds http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-version-1-0-3 with list of files which differ between 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 Jun 24 06:11:04 mdklein: which one? :_P Jun 24 06:11:14 hey sweet I just downloaded a tar.gz file Jun 24 06:11:16 rwhitby: it would also help to do the same for the tars within it Jun 24 06:11:23 jblebrun, the infinite loop one Jun 24 06:11:30 if you don't get a chance to I can check it out tomorrow Jun 24 06:11:40 destinal_: I unpacked the rootfs tarball before diffing Jun 24 06:11:44 oh Jun 24 06:12:02 i see now, nevermind then :) Jun 24 06:12:39 there's sprint.tar that differs. maybe a new NASCAR! Jun 24 06:12:42 :) Jun 24 06:12:58 why does nothing ever consistently work properly? Why would something that worked perfectly two hours ago no longer work Jun 24 06:12:59 sigh Jun 24 06:13:04 mdklein, do you have your changes on the wiki somewhere? Jun 24 06:13:20 hi guys. Jun 24 06:13:20 heh...been sitting here staring at putty windows...forgot to clock out of my work shift :P Jun 24 06:13:47 Techno: http://predev.wikidot.com/downloading-from-the-browser <-- near the bottom, I should probably make a new "bug fix page" Jun 24 06:13:53 so, its been a long day, but I finally have gotten all the hacks I wanted done. I've learned a ton about java today, feel good that I actually understand why things work or don't, thanks for all of your help! Jun 24 06:14:17 some interesting paths in /usr/bin/mkdfiff ... Jun 24 06:14:36 Hooray for downloading arbitrary files! Jun 24 06:14:43 Anyone of you tried to boot a selfcompiled kernel already? I have one here built with an OE armv7a toolchain from the Palm sources. Jun 24 06:14:54 Anyone interested to test it? :) Jun 24 06:15:13 stefan_schmidt: I think someone said they did boot one earlier tonight Jun 24 06:15:24 im not sure what you maen stefan_schmidt Jun 24 06:15:29 but they hadn't tested it much Jun 24 06:15:31 stefan_schmidt: ... arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -mthumb-interwork -mno-thumb ... Jun 24 06:15:39 destinal_: ok, that's good news. Do you remember who? Jun 24 06:15:42 (from /usr/bin/dfbdump Jun 24 06:15:43 ) Jun 24 06:15:54 checking Jun 24 06:16:03 stefan_schmidt: http://predev.wikidot.com/custom-kernels Jun 24 06:16:09 uNF Jun 24 06:16:21 stefan_schmidt: tonycpsu Jun 24 06:16:35 tonycpsu Jun 24 06:16:39 rwhitby: heh, using plain beagleboard toolchain from Oe here. /me will take a look Jun 24 06:16:39 heh, late Jun 24 06:16:50 thanks guys Jun 24 06:17:28 stefan_schmidt: /usr/bin/dfbdump has full gcc lines in it, with paths and bitbake versions and all Jun 24 06:18:04 rwhitby: heh, that's nice :) Jun 24 06:18:40 rwhitby: Just playing around without the device here. Same as you. Jun 24 06:18:48 when did the 1.0.3 update come out OTA? Jun 24 06:19:01 mdklein: You mean the stream URI routing loop? Any idea why unknown files default to streamable:true? Jun 24 06:19:04 the idea that it boots and runs tends to suggest "correspondence" and other fun stuff. :) Jun 24 06:19:09 was there a 1.0.2 or was it skipped? Jun 24 06:19:12 looks like 1.0.3 was built on 20090616184858 Jun 24 06:19:31 stefan_schmidt: 1.0.2 was in the first doctor jar we found Jun 24 06:19:41 jlebrun: the default appIdbyExtension is "com.palm.app.browser" Jun 24 06:19:45 anyone working on a wifi router app? that would be cool to turn the pre in to a mifi Jun 24 06:19:48 I dunno why it's default to stream == true Jun 24 06:19:56 1.0.1 is the gpl source release, lagging binary releases Jun 24 06:20:15 peazley: that still falls under the category of "tethering", see the topic Jun 24 06:20:21 rwhitby: And the binary releases lagging coresponding source code releases... Jun 24 06:20:47 sorry... ; ( seemed like a good idea Jun 24 06:21:12 stefan_schmidt: there has been no matching source and binary release yet as far as I know. Jun 24 06:21:16 mdklein: I just have it skipping the streaming code path for now, but I'll probably want that back :-) Jun 24 06:21:25 rwhitby: yeah, let's wait Jun 24 06:21:29 jlblebrun heh Jun 24 06:21:30 (oh, did the device come shipped with 1.0.0 or 1.0.1?) Jun 24 06:21:36 interesting: Jun 24 06:21:37 diff -r 1.0.2/resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle/etc/palm/defaultPreferences.txt 1.0.3/resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle/etc/palm/defaultPreferences.txt Jun 24 06:21:38 6a7 Jun 24 06:21:38 > "region": { "countryName":"United States", "countryCode":"us"}, Jun 24 06:21:53 looks like they are preparing for multiple regions ... Jun 24 06:22:05 Although downloading zips and tarballs seems more useful than streaming audio links wrking, at the moment :-) Jun 24 06:22:11 you can really just add the check to make sure it knows the mimetype by extension... that's all the checking the browser ever does (extension) Jun 24 06:22:15 rwhitby: I hoüpe so! :) Jun 24 06:22:26 err, hope Jun 24 06:23:01 Can anyone point me to the location of the iptables config file? I tried /etc/sysconfig and /etc/init.d which seem to be the location's you might typically find it Jun 24 06:23:27 technically palm has to release sources for every binary version that anyone has downloaded a copy of, yes? I'm willing to be patient for a bit thouhg Jun 24 06:23:46 for the GPL code Jun 24 06:23:54 destinal_: only if a person with each version requests in writing Jun 24 06:24:03 (for the GPLv2 code) Jun 24 06:24:42 Binary files 1.0.2/resources/webOS/boot-castle.bin and 1.0.3/resources/webOS/boot-castle.bin differ Jun 24 06:24:48 (bootloader update) Jun 24 06:25:19 just wondering, how do they change these files? do they do like an svn update or something? Jun 24 06:25:27 on the phone, i mean Jun 24 06:25:53 god, i asked that horribly.. lets try that again Jun 24 06:26:03 we don't know yet the mechanism the updater uses. I was trying to trace that conversation when I accidentally upgraded, and can't downgrade. Jun 24 06:26:09 how does the phone update these files and get the new ones, svn up? Jun 24 06:27:06 I am almost certain the updates are just one BIG ipk. Jun 24 06:27:21 the updater app makes an https connection to https://ps.palmws.com/ and I haven't successfully man-in-the-middled that traffic yet Jun 24 06:27:33 looks like 1.0.2 was built on 32 bit linux, and 1.0.3 was built on 64 bit linux. Jun 24 06:27:35 tshark runs on this thing, right? Jun 24 06:27:39 yep Jun 24 06:27:42 it's SSL Jun 24 06:27:47 yep Jun 24 06:27:48 damn Jun 24 06:28:09 they grab the new ipkg files by ssl, and then just ipkg install them. Jun 24 06:28:18 yes. I agre Jun 24 06:28:26 we know that it does multiple ipkg files - there is a download.log file Jun 24 06:28:36 it's logical to use the same "generic" deployment acorss the board Jun 24 06:28:54 across Jun 24 06:29:15 1.0.2 was official build number 118, 1.0.3 is build number 124 Jun 24 06:29:24 what is needful is to sign your own root cert, install that into your rooted phone in /etc/ssl/certs, then create a cert chain with that and your self signed cert and install that into stunnel and set up your own DNS server with a palmws.com zone on it pointing to your stunnel server's IP address and manually configure your wifi to use your DNS server. Jun 24 06:29:37 "-I/home/reviewdaemon/projects/nova/oe/build_palm_castle_release/...." Jun 24 06:29:41 then you should be able to load your private key into wireshark and decrypt the traffic Jun 24 06:30:53 (oh, I guess I missed mentioning that you have to capture it, but that's easy enough) Jun 24 06:31:13 anyone noticed all the /usr/lib/libMA_Foo.so files before ? Jun 24 06:31:38 motion apps shared libraries, which have names like the old PalmOS libs Jun 24 06:31:39 are build numbers usually this small for a complex thing like this? Jun 24 06:31:56 Technobabble: those would be reviewdaemon official builds Jun 24 06:32:22 (i.e. release candidates) Jun 24 06:32:23 i figured Jun 24 06:33:08 good night / happy hacking. :) Jun 24 06:33:31 (of course I'm just guessing at all this - I have no insider knowledge) Jun 24 06:33:40 i would make sense Jun 24 06:34:19 so. anyone try and change root password? Jun 24 06:34:25 Heh Jun 24 06:34:37 sup oc Jun 24 06:34:39 webmin on the palm pre -> http://i44.tinypic.com/103h3xl.jpg Jun 24 06:34:54 heh - /usr/lib/luna/luna-media/palmInitMedia.js had a number of changes to remove profanities ... Jun 24 06:34:55 Nada boss, just trying to catch up with everyone takin what i want to do :PP Jun 24 06:35:06 simplyflipflops: yeah, seems to work. Jun 24 06:35:15 no problems? Jun 24 06:35:20 Technobabble u do any graphics? Jun 24 06:35:23 or eound editing? Jun 24 06:35:30 we need a themes section asap ;] Jun 24 06:35:35 nope, sorry Jun 24 06:35:40 i'm pretty much a noob Jun 24 06:35:44 simplyflipflops: dunno if anyone is running like that long-term Jun 24 06:36:02 someone should try Jun 24 06:36:05 :D Jun 24 06:36:06 i've delved in graphics Jun 24 06:36:08 hmm Jun 24 06:36:26 i can create some batch scripts Jun 24 06:36:34 so we can auto make rington/reminders Jun 24 06:36:37 why oh why did palm make root password null Jun 24 06:36:46 it worries me Jun 24 06:36:54 did they? Jun 24 06:37:07 especially with what I have discovered about how it all works Jun 24 06:37:29 haha Jun 24 06:37:35 there isn't a root password to my knowledge Jun 24 06:37:49 mdklein: I've just got it so that the ResourceHandOff path doesn't try to stream something if it's registered with the browser as a handler, seems to be doing the trick Jun 24 06:38:37 that's what I did first time around, but I thought, what if it was registered to use the browser, thought going mime would be safer overall... if it's missing mime type I doubt it has business in the browser Jun 24 06:39:07 there is a mime type lookup table somewhere Jun 24 06:39:08 I'm good with graphics if anyone needs anything Jun 24 06:39:22 Just give me the pixel dimensions you need and the look you want Jun 24 06:39:34 I remember finding it when I was looking for a way to insert applicatoin/x-debian-package Jun 24 06:39:52 simplyflipflops: yes, but the problem is the getResourceInfo call returns canStream: true on uinknown types because the default handler is com.palm.app.browser :-p Jun 24 06:40:01 the browser looks up the mime type and decides what application to load with the file Jun 24 06:40:11 so if you try opening an unknown file, it cascade endless loops the browser Jun 24 06:40:13 mdklein: The only time I can find when that code path gets called is when the browser object has already reported that it can't handle the type. So re-dispatching it would be pointless. Jun 24 06:40:38 hmm.. Jun 24 06:40:44 simplyflipflops: yes, there is no root password (which is different from an empty root password) Jun 24 06:40:45 which controller are you working on? Jun 24 06:40:47 jblebrum: fair enough, I went that route originally, it seemed to work fine Jun 24 06:40:56 page-assistant.js Jun 24 06:41:04 I put the info in the Bugs page of the wiki Jun 24 06:41:05 my bad on the different between none and null Jun 24 06:41:38 sorry I'm jumping in late here.. what mime type are you trying to access? Jun 24 06:41:51 In a way I really want the SDK, but in another way... not being bound by a NDA is kind of nice too... plus I'm learning a ton by having to look into how stuff is done by the palm apps :-p Jun 24 06:42:10 Has anyone ever gotten ad-hoc wireless to consistently work? Two hours ago "iwconfig eth0 mode ad-hoc essid pre" worked perfectly, now, nothing Jun 24 06:42:12 luckily, neither dropbear or openssh will allow login for root when root has no password. Jun 24 06:42:21 I never made web pages with dreamweaver and I'm better for it. Jun 24 06:42:27 simplyflipflops: we're 1. having it no longer loop endlessly on unknown files, and 2. we implemented a download functionality to the browser so if you click an "unknown" file, you have option to download it Jun 24 06:42:27 :D Jun 24 06:42:32 jterhune: no reports here of anyone following in your footsteps yet Jun 24 06:42:56 nothing angers me more than intermitant failure/success Jun 24 06:43:01 maybe you should implement the mime type to force download Jun 24 06:43:07 it is... ummm... Jun 24 06:43:12 mdklein: I haven't even applied for the SDK, in case I'm granted access and have to do the NDA thing. Jun 24 06:43:14 let me think or google Jun 24 06:43:34 the problem is, it only queries mimetype by extensions though :-/ we want it to be able to download anything it doesn't know how to render Jun 24 06:44:17 the only thing we worry about right now is the browser thinks it can render ANYTHING, which causes it to launch another browser to do so Jun 24 06:44:20 and repeats Jun 24 06:44:20 I'm sure there's a possiblity to implement an ELSE clause. the mime type check must be a case or if/else statement Jun 24 06:44:55 page-assistant.js Jun 24 06:44:56 right? Jun 24 06:45:00 I don't care about the mime type though... this is the part of the browser that hands off the url to an app to open it (such as the youtube player) Jun 24 06:45:29 if we implement mimetypes, it would be valid, and thus handled Jun 24 06:45:37 this is just catching unimplemented types Jun 24 06:45:37 I'll need to look at the code Jun 24 06:45:38 so are the mime types browser specific? or are they global for the OS Jun 24 06:45:47 depends Jun 24 06:46:02 I think each app has a specific mime type call Jun 24 06:46:08 and then the globals take over Jun 24 06:46:11 from what i remember Jun 24 06:46:50 I remmeber making changes in the mime types for the email app but that didn't seem to change anything for the browser Jun 24 06:47:08 interesting Jun 24 06:47:19 I'd assume each app would have it's own way of handling various filetypes Jun 24 06:47:28 but no success doesn't mean that global isnt in existance Jun 24 06:47:36 Then again, this is day 1 for me with the pre Jun 24 06:48:01 sorry.. I didn't have success. that doesn't mean there isn't a bigger scheme Jun 24 06:48:36 yes. I agree and am sure each app has it's own way to handle mime types Jun 24 06:48:48 but there is a global default Jun 24 06:48:55 I gotcha Jun 24 06:49:04 simplyflipflops: basically I'm well aware of the mime handler and how to use it, but at this point... it's trying to open a file based on mimetype without checking to see if the mimetype exists, so I just added the check... Jun 24 06:49:09 So, you're trying to override the global defaults right now? Jun 24 06:49:18 or perhaps the apps themselves override the global rules. Jun 24 06:49:35 example. broswer renders images in browser. email renderes images as attachments Jun 24 06:49:36 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/getResourceInfo {\"uri\":\"http://www.google.com/index.html\"} Jun 24 06:49:36 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, { "returnValue": true, "uri": "http:\/\/www.google.com\/index.html", "appIdByExtension": "com.palm.app.browser", "mimeByExtenstion": "text\/html", "canStream": true } Jun 24 06:49:46 I think the latter Jun 24 06:49:57 that's the data the browser uses Jun 24 06:50:20 at least in the place where it decides to stream or nto Jun 24 06:50:22 I did a lot of research on mime types for the app installation Jun 24 06:50:42 I thought if I could force a mime type to debian package I could get any app to do the ipk installation Jun 24 06:51:00 if it was global Jun 24 06:51:04 !aha Jun 24 06:51:07 I'm with you now Jun 24 06:51:21 I found the loop in the email module Jun 24 06:51:47 I would assume it would also exist in the calendar or any other third party apps that get written. such as twitter Jun 24 06:51:58 or COULD exist Jun 24 06:52:28 maybe even notes Jun 24 06:52:38 anything that calls a web link really Jun 24 06:52:52 and it's up to the app to decide what to do with it Jun 24 06:53:21 hmm.. image? move to wallpaper? hmmm.. pdf.. launch pdf app? hmmm.. ipk.. move to installer? Jun 24 06:54:53 mdklein: what's the strategy for carrying these browser modifications forward? are you going to fork the browser, or rebase the mods on each webOS upgrade? Jun 24 06:55:02 I dunno Jun 24 06:55:24 forking browser is tricky Jun 24 06:55:37 I dunno legal stuff with that :-p Jun 24 06:55:53 I wasn't even thinking legal on this question. Jun 24 06:56:00 the browser is the logical thing to lock down the most Jun 24 06:56:02 (but that's a good point) Jun 24 06:56:22 right now I was planning rebase mods, but forking is def easier Jun 24 06:56:26 it has the easiest access to the rest of the world Jun 24 06:56:36 it better be water tight Jun 24 06:56:45 hey this should work right: sudo cp -r /usr/ /media/internal Jun 24 06:56:54 yeah it should Jun 24 06:57:04 I've been trying to get people to think about patch management before the problem is upon us ... ;-) Jun 24 06:57:18 "cannot create symlink" Jun 24 06:57:29 heh - /media/internal is vfat Jun 24 06:57:38 can't do symlinks or special files Jun 24 06:57:47 poop Jun 24 06:57:49 So it seems "iwconfig" works only if my pre is currently associated with an AP. It sticks for about 5 seconds, then gets overwritten. If anyone has an idea why it won't stick without being associated, or what process I might disable to prevent overwriting settings, let me know Jun 24 06:57:55 I have my doubts Jun 24 06:58:03 Webizard: sudo tar zcvf /media/internal/usr.tar.gz /usr Jun 24 06:58:06 I plan on testing logical calls to the fs Jun 24 06:58:10 via uri Jun 24 06:58:15 jterhune: I just put information about that on the wiki Jun 24 06:58:24 thanks Jun 24 06:58:24 http://predev.wikidot.com/ad-hoc-networking Jun 24 06:58:32 Webizard: make sure you do zcvf, not zxvf .... Jun 24 06:59:00 Webizard: are you going to write a 'how to completely back up your Pre' wiki page? Jun 24 06:59:23 if so, don't forget /var Jun 24 06:59:38 I might lol Jun 24 06:59:48 so the actual .js file changes between 1.0.2 and 1.0.3 are quite small ... Jun 24 07:00:05 they are? Jun 24 07:00:14 Webizard: you're obligated to now, since I answered your question :-) Jun 24 07:00:17 interesting Jun 24 07:00:43 How small Jun 24 07:00:46 the changes are,,,? Jun 24 07:01:15 I'll let you know how it goes ;) Jun 24 07:01:51 simplyflipflops: less than 100 lines of functional .js Jun 24 07:02:06 how about filesize chnages to the bins? Jun 24 07:02:09 most of the packages were backend changes it appeared, not much in way of actual apps Jun 24 07:02:14 oh, heaps of changes to bins Jun 24 07:02:15 it was only like a 13MB patch Jun 24 07:02:20 I'm thinking most changes happen at the luna level Jun 24 07:02:40 and the javascripts are updates to call these new internal functions Jun 24 07:02:49 small .js changes means no real new features in the apps accessible from the UI Jun 24 07:02:51 I unpacked all the ipks and pasted a file list somewhere back when it was pushed out, can't remember where though, pastebin Jun 24 07:02:53 it would be how I would do it Jun 24 07:03:23 keep all changes at the bin level Jun 24 07:03:28 if possible Jun 24 07:03:39 are any of you guys getting horribly off GPS readings? Jun 24 07:03:43 but 100k of code is different than 100k of js Jun 24 07:04:00 Techno, only indoors and away from windows Jun 24 07:04:05 how off are we takling? Jun 24 07:04:11 talking Jun 24 07:04:14 i take this thing outside with nothing and it's a good mile off Jun 24 07:04:34 where are you, if you don't mind me asking Jun 24 07:04:55 generally speaking Jun 24 07:04:57 southern cali Jun 24 07:05:15 mdklein: do you want to put some patches in the gitorious repo? Jun 24 07:05:26 grepping through strings in the palm /usr/bin files did help me find a few unused-by-sdk calls... so far the only one I've found really useful is the applicationmanager rescan... came in very helpful when changing the browser code, killing luna is soooo fricking slow Jun 24 07:05:46 rwhitby: I will in the morning... gf wants me to sleep now Jun 24 07:05:47 heh Jun 24 07:06:01 what's the call on that and can it be called via command line? Jun 24 07:06:02 mdklein: do you have access, and a place to put them? Jun 24 07:06:22 no access that I know of Jun 24 07:06:26 simplyflipflops: there's a wiki page on that. Jun 24 07:06:27 but I can put them up somwhere Jun 24 07:06:31 ah ok Jun 24 07:06:36 mdklein: we can fix that if you like Jun 24 07:06:41 sure Jun 24 07:06:48 I don't read the wiki that often Jun 24 07:06:58 mdklein: just create an account, and message me the your username Jun 24 07:07:17 we have an applications repo, perhaps we start a modifications repo alongside it. Jun 24 07:07:20 anybody know how to get ms vitural pc to work on win 7? Jun 24 07:07:26 simply: I made a script in /usr/bin called reload.sh while I was working on app, rescan just populates the launcher, but also uninstalls applications missing from the app path, and installs them when you put them in Jun 24 07:07:27 sooo Jun 24 07:07:30 #!/bin/sh Jun 24 07:07:30 mv /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.browser /tmp/ Jun 24 07:07:30 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jun 24 07:07:30 mv /tmp/com.palm.app.browser /usr/palm/applications/ Jun 24 07:07:30 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jun 24 07:07:44 nice script Jun 24 07:07:52 I've been using pkill Jun 24 07:08:01 if you're in the directory working, cd ./ to get back to a valid handle Jun 24 07:08:07 but it works Jun 24 07:08:15 it'll kill the app if you forgot to on the pre too Jun 24 07:08:16 we've confirmed that git from optware runs on the Pre, right? Jun 24 07:08:21 anyway Jun 24 07:08:23 Yes Jun 24 07:08:24 I have Jun 24 07:08:27 I used simply cd Jun 24 07:08:33 I'm heading to bed, see ya in the morning Jun 24 07:08:38 nite Jun 24 07:08:52 i need windows 7 help Jun 24 07:09:15 too much bs to root this pre Jun 24 07:09:15 we need a workflow where people can checkout the modifications repo, and then just use patch to apply the diffs. Jun 24 07:09:37 heh Jun 24 07:09:45 make ipks for each article in the wiki Jun 24 07:09:53 click and download to implement Jun 24 07:10:02 simple Jun 24 07:10:26 uh, it looks like this gps is snapping to a grid all around me, but not where i am Jun 24 07:10:45 simplyflipflops: ipks are a bit cumbersome for modifications Jun 24 07:10:54 do you have your microwave on making popcorn? :D Jun 24 07:11:08 (unless all the ipkg does is run patch in the postinst file) Jun 24 07:11:11 not if they are versioned Jun 24 07:11:47 simplyflipflops: I'm looking for a flow where mdklein can just go "quilt refresh ; git commit ; git push" to release a new version of his patch Jun 24 07:12:03 and the consumers just go "quilt pop ; git pull ; quilt push" to apply them Jun 24 07:12:07 This is taking a while Jun 24 07:12:34 this is beyond me. I don't know these commands Jun 24 07:13:01 those commands are commonly used in Linux kernel development. Jun 24 07:13:14 that would explain it Jun 24 07:13:16 quilt applies patches Jun 24 07:13:17 rickbobby: what have you done so far? Jun 24 07:13:17 ;) Jun 24 07:15:20 you're not on fire RickyBobby! Jun 24 07:16:30 rwhitby: couldn't you have an IPK with cascading IPK files within it? Jun 24 07:16:52 simplyflipflops: that's not the problem. ipkgs can have dependencies on other ipkgs no problem Jun 24 07:17:10 I'm not taking dependencies Jun 24 07:17:19 I;m talking ipk within ipk within ipk Jun 24 07:17:22 within ipk Jun 24 07:17:24 etc Jun 24 07:17:32 patch upon patch Jun 24 07:17:33 the problem is how can we make the workflow path from mdklein creating a browser mod patch, to you applying a browser mod patch, need no packaging work, and no manual typing of lines. Jun 24 07:18:19 well.. everyone needs to be on the same order of operations Jun 24 07:18:22 so he can modify a line, type up to three commands directly on his Pre, and then you can test his mod with less than three commands directly on your Pre Jun 24 07:18:46 I see Jun 24 07:18:52 the workflow has to operate for the case where I might want to apply between 1 and N of the patches. Jun 24 07:19:05 hard to implement as the more developers who are writing and testing at the same time Jun 24 07:19:25 no, it happens every day with the linux kernel. quilt and git are designed for such things. Jun 24 07:19:48 tactical code changes Jun 24 07:19:52 interesting Jun 24 07:21:04 I just need to find someone who (1) has a Pre, (2) is creating modifications to built-in apps, and (3) has had experience in managing distributed code changes to common source files. Jun 24 07:21:27 couldn't svn handle something like that? Jun 24 07:22:03 Technobabble: svn merges across multiple producers don't work as well as git. Jun 24 07:22:11 mkay, git then Jun 24 07:22:46 does the pre have crond? Jun 24 07:23:04 Technobabble: when I have a few producers (e.g. managing changes to /etc files on a Linux server), I just create an svn checkout at / and check in the changes. Jun 24 07:23:12 Technobabble: optware certainly does Jun 24 07:23:30 but you'll want a special crond that is sleep aware Jun 24 07:23:44 (so your Pre doesn't wake up each minute to check cron) Jun 24 07:29:43 nite Jun 24 07:31:55 * rwhitby wonders whether stgit will work for this ... Jun 24 07:42:47 Has anyone made a 1.0.2->1.0.3 diff of the js files? Jun 24 07:43:00 i think rwhitby did Jun 24 07:43:32 jblebrun: I did, but decided not to put it anywhere, cause all lines in it are Palm copyright code. Jun 24 07:43:51 I did put up a list of modified files. Jun 24 07:44:13 Where? Jun 24 07:44:24 http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-version-1-0-3 Jun 24 07:44:56 Thanks. Search was not being my friend. Jun 24 07:45:14 Technobabble hows it going Jun 24 07:45:19 whacha workin on now Jun 24 07:45:20 (referenced from http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions) Jun 24 07:45:50 this southpark where they fake Butters' death by pushing a big off a building dressed in his clothes Jun 24 07:45:58 to get him to come back as a girl to get that stupid paper thing from the girls that they think is a future telling device Jun 24 07:46:17 it's really F'd up Jun 24 07:49:40 * rwhitby begins packaging stgit for optware ... Jun 24 07:51:35 nice Jun 24 07:51:53 stgit!#$ Jun 24 07:51:56 git r done? Jun 24 07:51:58 :D Jun 24 07:52:05 lol Jun 24 07:52:27 nah.... Jun 24 07:52:28 StGit is a Python application providing similar functionality to Quilt (i.e. pushing/popping patches to/from a stack) on top of Git. Jun 24 07:52:40 thats some hype right there. Jun 24 07:55:04 hype? Jun 24 08:05:36 er yea Jun 24 08:12:45 * rwhitby wonders exactly what directories on the Pre get backed up to Palm Jun 24 08:13:11 e.g. when we have an ssh gui client, will your private id_dsa key get sent to Palm as part of the Palm Profile backup? Jun 24 08:20:29 * rwhitby considers http://ext3cow.com/Welcome.html for the Pre rootfs too ... Jun 24 08:21:12 yoo brb man Jun 24 08:21:16 cigg break ;/ Jun 24 08:21:28 guess i should reboot too Jun 24 08:21:30 bbiab ;] Jun 24 08:23:48 oc80z: I didn't even know Optware had fortune in it - nice! Jun 24 08:29:02 Wow Jun 24 08:29:12 this neon phone theme Jun 24 08:29:20 hype. Jun 24 08:32:04 since cdma is 2 channels (no?), can we prevent EVDO from powering off during a phonecall? Jun 24 08:32:18 or is that hal programmed. Jun 24 08:45:11 So i've completely colorized my pre... webos look like a pack of skittles Jun 24 08:46:57 ugh damn route Jun 24 08:47:00 thats cool Jun 24 08:50:57 post some pics Jun 24 08:54:49 grr Jun 24 09:07:37 in a bit Jun 24 09:08:08 is it possible to screencapture when the phone is locked? Jun 24 09:12:12 yup Jun 24 09:13:59 sure right? Jun 24 09:14:43 yup im sure Jun 24 09:16:16 so yea Jun 24 09:16:20 i want background :P Jun 24 09:16:37 bout to make a bunch of ringers too i guess. Jun 24 09:17:51 i dont mind the 4mbit evdo Jun 24 09:17:54 :D Jun 24 09:18:36 faster than my dsl line :| Jun 24 09:18:51 speedtest said 3.8 Jun 24 09:19:14 what time is it where your at? Jun 24 09:20:07 5:30ish Jun 24 09:20:46 yea... don't think the network is too clogged. do you still get those speeds at like... 7:15pm? Jun 24 09:21:32 great question Jun 24 09:21:53 ill check it around peak 11pm or so tonight Jun 24 09:22:39 Im not sure the speedtest is actually testing the speed between your pre and the tower either. Jun 24 09:22:55 more like their network and the speedtest server Jun 24 09:23:00 yea Jun 24 09:25:24 although an app for tower diagnostics would be neat. Jun 24 09:28:21 heh... i was trying to get those co-ord's for the sidekick/hiptop Jun 24 09:29:27 they removed it didn't they? Jun 24 09:30:09 they messed up a bunch of stuff. Jun 24 09:30:46 grime Jun 24 09:31:27 aye,. Jun 24 09:33:21 lol Jun 24 09:35:09 hrmm Jun 24 09:38:45 dunno Jun 24 09:38:52 u can do gfx? Jun 24 09:39:07 i can do some audio editing / Jun 24 09:40:10 is it possible to buy a pre for developing, from palm or so? don't want to make a useless contract just for getting a pre. Jun 24 09:40:16 Not like 3d max or anything but im proficient with adobe Jun 24 09:40:42 just wait for the sdk and you can virtualize it Jun 24 09:40:53 yeah Gelb i would apply asap. Jun 24 09:41:31 oc80z-: i just saw that I can apply for the sdk. can I then buy a phone, after they approved me for the sdk? Jun 24 09:41:48 yea you can buy a phone without getting approved Jun 24 09:41:54 but it aint cheap Jun 24 09:42:07 and not just yet Jun 24 09:42:09 i ebayed mine for like 450 Jun 24 09:42:17 with a free car charger Jun 24 09:42:25 traitor! Jun 24 09:42:27 lol Jun 24 09:42:32 would like to begin developing for it as soon as possible, and i dont like to do everything in the simulator. Jun 24 09:43:12 you could always convince one of your friends to buy it and then just give him some free apps in exchange Jun 24 09:43:39 will first apply for the sdk, and will see then. Jun 24 09:44:01 Webizard: I dont want to have a mobile contract with it. Jun 24 09:44:26 or work 40 hours under the table, buy the phone+cntract, and then cancle the contract. Jun 24 09:45:06 Yay! Filezilla into the Pre. I don't know why I thought that was going to be difficult. Thanks to everyone for letting me lurk and learn. :) Jun 24 09:46:26 we <3 you Jun 24 09:49:19 you don't need one. you can buy a phone from sprint at retail... only thing is i don't think itll let you use it without a service plan Jun 24 09:49:59 it won't boot without a palm profile Jun 24 09:50:07 although, i'm sure one of you guys could hammer that little issue out Jun 24 09:50:30 yea you can probably redirect how it checks and fake a profile Jun 24 09:50:33 Webizard: I would use it only on wifi. Couldn't use it on a mobile network, because here (uk) are no compatible networks for it. Jun 24 09:51:04 i'd like to see skype on the phone via wifi, that would be cool Jun 24 09:51:11 Hells yeah Jun 24 09:51:14 that shouldent be an issue. Jun 24 09:51:18 iskoot too :D Jun 24 09:51:24 there's so much stuff i wanna do Jun 24 09:51:40 you'll either have to wait for the gsm version, sdk, or wait till someone hacks the profile checker mechanism Jun 24 09:52:20 and you'll have to get someone to buy it and ship you a cdma version cause sprint won't ship it overseas. ebay would prob be cheaper Jun 24 09:52:24 Webizard: ok, thank you. I think I will wait till I am approved for the sdk, maybe till then the situation has changed. Jun 24 09:53:26 someone needs to home brew a theme app Jun 24 09:54:20 nick babbleSleep Jun 24 09:54:28 see you guys tomorrow Jun 24 09:54:38 anyone know why know there are landscape versions of images but they don't actually go landscape? Jun 24 09:56:12 hrmz Jun 24 09:56:16 lata babbleSleep Jun 24 10:04:25 hrmz Jun 24 10:06:52 ? Jun 24 10:12:14 nada work is blah Jun 24 10:12:34 tell me about it.... what do you do Jun 24 10:16:57 does anybdy know the proper syntax to remove a user created on the pre? or to change the password on an existing user??? Jun 24 10:17:02 I'm Stuck Jun 24 10:17:18 passwd Jun 24 10:18:09 WTF?? I tried that lastnight and it didn't work, lol! Thank you! Jun 24 10:18:28 taking it worked today lol Jun 24 10:18:38 yeah, strange Jun 24 10:18:55 hmm? Jun 24 10:18:57 remove a user? Jun 24 10:19:29 its deluser Jun 24 10:19:36 ohh and to change passwd :P Jun 24 10:19:44 he typed in his password wrong when creating a user and go stuck i'm guessing Jun 24 10:19:49 got Jun 24 10:20:34 do you use any google calendars? Jun 24 10:21:07 exchange. why? Jun 24 10:21:18 all day events are not syncing. Jun 24 10:21:22 eg birthdays :| Jun 24 10:21:52 **Webizard** -- How do you run Sudo?? Jun 24 10:22:02 you have to install it first Jun 24 10:22:09 done Jun 24 10:22:21 then sudo before a command Jun 24 10:22:53 so sudo run?? Jun 24 10:23:08 i'm new to linux, obviously Jun 24 10:23:11 oc: all day events didn't sync(or so i thought) for me either but when it got within two days they appeared. try to view in month or week Jun 24 10:23:14 yea lol Jun 24 10:23:19 sudo is not something you run Jun 24 10:23:36 its used to gain root access only when you need it Jun 24 10:23:56 so when you want to elevate you type sudo Jun 24 10:24:01 ok i see, lol! sudo login. Jun 24 10:24:05 thank you Jun 24 10:24:23 yup Jun 24 10:24:40 dropbear or openssh?? which is better> Jun 24 10:25:07 neither... i'd go with bropbear since your learning still Jun 24 10:25:24 ok will install that one then. Jun 24 10:25:34 i'm sure i'll have some more ??? for ya. Jun 24 10:25:36 sory Jun 24 10:25:40 **sorry Jun 24 10:25:59 its ok.... onlu gonna be around for another 15 min though... almost time to head home from work Jun 24 10:26:05 only* Jun 24 10:27:14 nice Jun 24 10:27:17 same here... finally Jun 24 10:27:29 lol, i hear ya! so i tried to install dropbear, while being logged in as my new user and it said permission denied Jun 24 10:27:37 sudo... Jun 24 10:28:06 sudo?? Jun 24 10:28:09 sudo... Jun 24 10:28:27 you have to type "sudo install dropbear" Jun 24 10:28:32 or w/e the command is Jun 24 10:28:44 lol sudo ipkg-opt install dropbear Jun 24 10:28:44 like i said sudo is to gain root previlages Jun 24 10:28:50 sudo /opt/bin/ipkg-opt update Jun 24 10:28:54 sudo /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install dropbear Jun 24 10:28:55 oh, lol Jun 24 10:29:00 gotcha Jun 24 10:29:46 sudo == super user do Jun 24 10:30:06 lol that still sounds funny Jun 24 10:30:13 caveman linux Jun 24 10:30:46 so did an australian write dropbear? Jun 24 10:31:29 yup lol Jun 24 10:32:23 heh Jun 24 10:32:46 initctl start optware-dropbear Jun 24 10:32:46 Says initctl - command not found Jun 24 10:33:18 thats cool Jun 24 10:33:24 are you following the directions? Jun 24 10:33:47 yea.... you gotta follow them closely. Jun 24 10:33:50 line by line Jun 24 10:33:53 try again look for typos Jun 24 10:34:01 copy and paste Jun 24 10:34:06 is king Jun 24 10:34:10 start from scratch... Jun 24 10:34:56 initctl is optware? no right? Jun 24 10:37:02 this is for Starting the Dropbear SSH daemon for testing. Jun 24 10:37:13 yup Jun 24 10:37:27 initctl is a valid command Jun 24 10:37:29 ? Jun 24 10:37:33 yup Jun 24 10:37:43 hmmm, wonder why it didn't work Jun 24 10:38:07 i just did the wget command and it downloaded it Jun 24 10:40:10 did it install without error? Jun 24 10:40:19 hi Jun 24 10:40:25 hi there Jun 24 10:40:42 anything exciting tonight? Jun 24 10:40:51 morning* Jun 24 10:40:56 ey webizard Jun 24 10:40:59 yup Jun 24 10:41:07 palm's relaxing the NDA soon :D Jun 24 10:41:09 can't wait Jun 24 10:41:10 did initctl again and it asked for password? Jun 24 10:41:16 get to start my website back up Jun 24 10:41:23 cause you need to get to root Jun 24 10:41:28 put it in Jun 24 10:41:43 YEY! Hell with NDAs Jun 24 10:42:00 **piratebay.org** Jun 24 10:42:17 there isn't a password fo root? Jun 24 10:42:24 no Jun 24 10:42:42 nopey dope Jun 24 10:42:59 i forgot to turn wifi on when i threw my pre on my touchstone :( Jun 24 10:43:04 now i have to run upstairs and turn it on Jun 24 10:43:07 so i can ssh into it Jun 24 10:43:25 lol... shoulda done evdo... woulda saved you a trip Jun 24 10:43:28 but its 3:43 am and i'm drinking and too lazy Jun 24 10:43:45 i don't have the evdo ip right now.. i need to set up the hostname thing Jun 24 10:43:56 think i'm going to install apache on my phone Jun 24 10:44:09 and make a website for me so i can locate my phone and other stuff Jun 24 10:44:09 :P Jun 24 10:44:11 I've been trying but when i edit dropbear it just stops working Jun 24 10:44:45 now it says initctl command not found again Jun 24 10:44:56 nxlking, are you rooot? Jun 24 10:45:07 try /sbin/initctl Jun 24 10:45:16 i think its in /sbin Jun 24 10:45:22 er Jun 24 10:45:23 but i don't have my pre with wifi on yet Jun 24 10:45:23 :) Jun 24 10:45:27 so i can't be certain Jun 24 10:45:34 can anybody give this guy a path Jun 24 10:45:46 a path to what? Jun 24 10:45:48 seigex t/y Jun 24 10:45:48 :P Jun 24 10:45:49 throw the phone away? Jun 24 10:45:50 :) Jun 24 10:45:51 lol Jun 24 10:45:52 j/k Jun 24 10:45:53 HEH Jun 24 10:45:54 sorry guys Jun 24 10:46:01 its not a big deal Jun 24 10:46:02 nxlking, for what? Jun 24 10:46:04 new at linux, everybody has to learn at some point. Jun 24 10:46:04 how do you like the phone Jun 24 10:46:06 this is all part of the fun Jun 24 10:46:07 its late...we're just grumpy :) Jun 24 10:46:09 lol Jun 24 10:46:13 yeah we're happy its not just an ipx yet Jun 24 10:46:21 lmao Jun 24 10:46:22 er .ipgx w/e palm:// Jun 24 10:46:24 hold up a sec lemme turn wifi on Jun 24 10:46:24 brb Jun 24 10:47:53 ok, how do i get back to root??? Jun 24 10:48:04 this is so frustrating Jun 24 10:48:14 how did you get out of root? Jun 24 10:48:57 well i logged in as my user!? Jun 24 10:49:14 shouldn't i be in root@castle? Jun 24 10:50:05 yea Jun 24 10:50:27 just get out and go back in... you'll be root again Jun 24 10:51:02 although your user should work too... i think Jun 24 10:51:04 true lol Jun 24 10:51:44 alright geeks... see ya on the flip side Jun 24 10:51:54 'Night Jun 24 10:51:56 good luck to ya king.... sure we'll hear from you later Jun 24 10:52:03 thanks my man Jun 24 10:52:07 i'll need it Jun 24 10:58:04 back Jun 24 10:58:10 whew that was annoying Jun 24 10:58:28 woot Jun 24 10:58:34 geeks? Jun 24 10:58:36 GEEKS? Jun 24 10:58:39 oh yeah Jun 24 10:59:08 erm Jun 24 11:14:29 eh? Jun 24 11:14:47 im pc out Jun 24 11:14:50 bblz homiez Jun 24 11:14:52 grr found more alarm clock annoyances Jun 24 11:14:59 blau-mikeDG how come, whats up man Jun 24 11:15:03 (me too) Jun 24 11:15:14 i somehow managed to toast sound coming out of the alarm clock yesterday Jun 24 11:15:17 can u put em in wikidot http://predev.wikidot.com/bugs Jun 24 11:15:21 a reboot fixed it, im trying to reproduce it now Jun 24 11:15:40 ill read teh znc bnc Jun 24 11:15:41 bblz Jun 24 11:15:41 :/ Jun 24 11:16:02 also noticed that if you turn the phone on and an alarm goes off Jun 24 11:16:03 hmm Jun 24 11:16:11 you have a good amount of time before you can snooze or dismiss it Jun 24 11:16:13 oops Jun 24 11:16:42 anyone know the title of the email you got confirming that you signed up for sdk access? Jun 24 11:16:53 yeah hold up i'll tell u Jun 24 11:17:41 Welcome to the Palm Mojo SDK early access program! Jun 24 11:17:41 Jun 24 11:17:41 Inbox X Jun 24 11:17:41 Jun 24 11:17:41 Reply to all Jun 24 11:17:41 thanks Jun 24 11:17:57 well Jun 24 11:17:59 thatw as gay Jun 24 11:18:07 seig: thats the one where you apply or got accepted? Jun 24 11:18:08 thats what i get for copying a title from gmail Jun 24 11:18:13 thats when i got accepted Jun 24 11:18:15 how much of that posted? Jun 24 11:18:16 lol Jun 24 11:18:23 what about applied :) Jun 24 11:18:27 Welcome to the Palm Mojo SDK early access program! Jun 24 11:18:32 erm Jun 24 11:18:43 didn't get one for applying Jun 24 11:19:42 oh ok Jun 24 11:19:55 what was the last line that pasted when i just pasted that before Jun 24 11:20:16 before i disconnected for flooding Jun 24 11:21:03 Reply to all Jun 24 11:21:15 oh ok good Jun 24 11:21:16 phew Jun 24 11:21:20 lol Jun 24 11:22:50 seigex: just check the public logs ... Jun 24 11:29:17 hmm Jun 24 11:29:21 i need something to work on Jun 24 11:29:55 or should i go to sleep Jun 24 11:31:31 added my bugs to the wiki Jun 24 11:31:54 what was added to the rough cuts book yesterday? Jun 24 11:44:09 ooo amazon touchstone is back up to $40 Jun 24 11:44:17 glad i bought two Jun 24 11:46:20 how much it was before? Jun 24 11:46:25 $30 Jun 24 11:46:29 for just the stone Jun 24 11:47:08 and 20 for backplate? Jun 24 11:48:19 18 Jun 24 11:48:32 plus i have prime and an amazon credit card Jun 24 11:48:33 ic Jun 24 11:48:47 so they seemed to be the best discounted place to buy from Jun 24 11:48:51 going OT here Jun 24 11:48:58 i think precentral has the pack for $50 Jun 24 11:49:00 k Jun 24 11:49:09 does anyone have verizon fios tv? Jun 24 11:49:50 my girlfreidns parents do Jun 24 11:50:05 i can answer limited questions about it, and i used to have fios internet Jun 24 11:50:17 i have fios internet and phone Jun 24 11:50:18 * rwhitby creates applauncher/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch Jun 24 11:50:26 i'm planing to switch to fios tv now Jun 24 11:50:29 and i wonder how is it Jun 24 11:50:32 their billing dept sucks, and the cable boxes via hdmi seem to screw up audio alot Jun 24 11:50:56 from what ive played around with it, the boxes are snappy, hd quality is very nice compared to at least the cable tv in my area Jun 24 11:50:58 guys, a reminder that people read the public logs of this channel to see the discussion while they are sleeping Jun 24 11:51:09 so the less off-topic chat, the better for them. Jun 24 11:51:12 thanks. Jun 24 11:51:14 where do you get the public logs? Jun 24 11:51:26 at porn.com Jun 24 11:51:26 :P Jun 24 11:51:26 mtkatwork: at the place listed in the /topic Jun 24 11:51:31 thanks Jun 24 11:51:41 blau-mikeDG: i gotta look for some reviews Jun 24 11:51:43 time to google Jun 24 11:57:30 http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/ApplyOnline/ApplyStart.aspx?el=true&Job_DID=J3H10X670Y6SFDN1RVM its android but lollable Jun 24 12:03:20 anyone do some development for webos w/o the sdk in eclipse? Jun 24 12:06:21 bpadalino|work: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/trees/master Jun 24 12:10:20 hm Jun 24 12:10:26 rwhitby, whatr u doing up so late Jun 24 12:10:48 9:40pm here Jun 24 12:10:49 blau, yeah i do Jun 24 12:10:54 my phones been wonky lately, when i eject it , it stays with the drive picture Jun 24 12:10:55 rwhitby, oh where the hell u at :) Jun 24 12:10:56 and just now it bitched about recovered damaged data bah Jun 24 12:11:02 blau, but i switched to straight up aptana Jun 24 12:11:05 .au, GMT+9:30 Jun 24 12:12:03 ah Jun 24 12:12:22 what are u doing playing with the pre then? :) Jun 24 12:12:38 don't have a Pre Jun 24 12:13:37 yeah figured as much Jun 24 12:13:37 :) Jun 24 12:14:30 wtf.. i didn't know freenode had netsplits Jun 24 12:21:26 rwhitby, interesting .. you were still able to write that without having a pre ? Jun 24 12:21:59 bpadalino: the instructions for the diff are in the wiki Jun 24 12:22:13 I just turned it into a diff file on the file from the doctor jar Jun 24 12:22:23 very nice Jun 24 12:22:31 are you still looking into quilt ? Jun 24 12:22:37 BTW, I'm looking for the original author of that patch Jun 24 12:22:42 (so I can credit it properly) Jun 24 12:22:49 bpadalino: using stgit at the moment Jun 24 12:22:55 ah Jun 24 12:23:14 which patch? Jun 24 12:23:42 http://predev.wikidot.com/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher Jun 24 12:24:01 ah ok Jun 24 12:24:01 pyrognome said: "The credit to this goes to someone in the forums, at the time this was written I wasn't able to find out who exactly was it who wrote about it first (purely I don't have the time to look.) Pyrognome tested and confirmed the new page and delete page functionality." Jun 24 12:24:11 so I'm looking for the forum post Jun 24 12:24:57 is it this post? http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/185489-i-did-can-make-new-pages-now.html#post1672993 Jun 24 12:26:12 Jun 11 15:33:00 I put some instructions on how to enable adding pages to the launcher on the wiki Jun 24 12:30:54 its 0530 am Jun 24 12:30:58 guss i should go to sleep Jun 24 12:33:53 ugh internet sucks all around today wtf Jun 24 12:34:03 mine's fine Jun 24 12:34:05 where u at? Jun 24 12:34:50 new jersey Jun 24 12:34:51 phone internet sucks Jun 24 12:34:52 and it seems like our network is toast as well Jun 24 12:43:57 hrmz Jun 24 12:44:08 why the frig is my scroll wheel/touchpad not working Jun 24 12:44:12 omfg. bbiab. Jun 24 12:44:17 so lame Jun 24 12:44:17 heh Jun 24 12:48:06 anyone got a stereo bt headset Jun 24 12:49:38 better name for note taking Jun 24 12:49:43 Action Notes or Notes Desk or something else Jun 24 12:56:59 nop Jun 24 13:19:20 hmm Jun 24 13:19:44 Noates Jun 24 13:19:45 :P Jun 24 13:20:01 * rwhitby has completed packaging stgit for Optware, and it is now in the feed. Jun 24 13:20:35 * oc80z has swalloed tylonol pm and read for zzz Jun 24 13:20:35 Looking for someone with a Pre to test it ... Jun 24 13:20:36 :P Jun 24 13:20:50 yea what can i patch Jun 24 13:21:08 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications Jun 24 13:21:31 only the add/delete launcher pages patch so far Jun 24 13:23:08 im not on teh same page as you Jun 24 13:23:12 hang loose Jun 24 13:26:01 Can someone point me in the right direction regarding opening specific ports on the Pre? I'd just edit the iptables config file or use iptables and iptables-save, but I can't find the config file and iptables-save is missing Jun 24 13:26:57 searedice: have a look at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/master/etc/event.d/optware-dropbear Jun 24 13:27:55 ah, so in the absence of iptables-save, just write a script to do it every time....thanks :) Jun 24 13:32:12 are logs of chat in this IRC room hosted somewhere public? Jun 24 13:32:18 porn.com Jun 24 13:32:23 heh Jun 24 13:32:46 ya here http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/ Jun 24 13:33:59 Thanks a lot, Cr4shOv3rid3 Jun 24 13:37:14 whisper words of wisdom Jun 24 13:37:16 let it beeeee Jun 24 13:37:45 searedice: FYI, that information is also in the topic Jun 24 13:37:54 that is, /topic Jun 24 13:38:37 * oc80z lookin at Jun 24 13:38:50 Oy; missed that ... the joys of not yet having consumed the day's cup of coffee Jun 24 13:39:14 create.class Jun 24 13:40:52 * rwhitby bbt Jun 24 13:47:28 anyone think it's possible to boot the phone without its battery? Jun 24 13:47:54 should be Jun 24 13:48:00 u can do that with a lot of phones Jun 24 13:48:13 when I had my pocket phone it worked without battery in Jun 24 13:48:24 yeah, worked with my past treos... Jun 24 13:48:32 but this phone just comes up with a battery icon with a question mark in it Jun 24 13:49:02 I went swimming with my pre the other day so the battery self-destructed Jun 24 13:49:15 but the phone would work more or less now Jun 24 13:50:21 interesting Jun 24 14:10:24 actually the pre is supposed to be able to work on usb power, I remeber someone commenting on development being done that way Jun 24 14:14:34 Anyone else having problems with mail not checking favorite folders on yahoo? Jun 24 14:14:47 i have a few questions about the steps for Downloading From The Browser. Anyone care to discuss? Jun 24 14:15:17 just ask your questions Jun 24 14:16:27 ok i didn't want to clutter the channel with my problem, i'm following the instructions for modifying the sources.json in com.palm.app.browser and I can't figure out what "Next, at the end of the app/controllers/page-assistant.js function "PageAssistant.prototype.setup":" means. Jun 24 14:16:44 link: http://predev.wikidot.com/downloading-from-the-browser Jun 24 14:16:57 theres a pageassistnat..js file Jun 24 14:17:06 and a function name .setup in there Jun 24 14:17:11 so at the end of that, do whatever Jun 24 14:18:25 Is it possible to modify the youtube viewer to look at redtube? Jun 24 14:19:21 blau-mikeDG: this is what it looks like. where do I add? Jun 24 14:19:24 http://webos.pastebin.com/m434da126 Jun 24 14:20:02 Good day all, anyone know if there will be a ssh app available on the Pre any time soon. It sure would be nice for managing some servers remotely. Jun 24 14:20:14 everfine:: its telling you to open another file Jun 24 14:20:22 nto modifying souorces.json anymore Jun 24 14:20:27 oh. ok thanks. wasn't very clear. Jun 24 14:20:33 you are modifying app/controllers/page-assistant.js now Jun 24 14:21:05 brontos: if you root the phone I beleve you can install a ssh client and server Jun 24 14:21:46 brontos: its an app I am waiting for too Jun 24 14:21:55 Bsims: and the client is setup so that I can use it like I would the normal apps Jun 24 14:22:10 not yet is my understanding Jun 24 14:22:16 ah ok Jun 24 14:22:24 but beleve me its one I want Jun 24 14:22:35 or even better tie it into the browser Jun 24 14:22:43 me too! :) Jun 24 14:22:57 I've seen javascript/java based ssh clients Jun 24 14:24:38 brontos: if you want a native (plugin) version somebody needs to figure out the plugin api/headers or wait for a more open sdk Jun 24 14:24:51 there are some attempts to use the framebuffer Jun 24 14:25:34 * Bsims laughs ssh and java is all I need, and the java/flash is mostly for porn Jun 24 14:26:00 I know flash is supposed to be comming Real Soon Now^tm Jun 24 14:26:06 java? Jun 24 14:26:21 * Bsims smiles some speed tests etc use java Jun 24 14:26:43 ok, so it says to add "this._downloadController = new DownloadController(this.controller); Jun 24 14:26:43 this._downloadController.setup();" at the end of PageAssistant.prototype.setup function. Where do I add it in this: http://webos.pastebin.com/m5112aa34 ? Jun 24 14:26:44 Beta of flash scheduled for October. Jun 24 14:26:47 Ive seen a ssh client that will work on any phone with java I used it on my ancient of days fusic Jun 24 14:27:19 fusic supported applets? or you mean j2me Jun 24 14:27:20 there's a jvm on the machine, it's just not linked to the browser. Jun 24 14:27:48 j2me Jun 24 14:28:04 has it been confirmed if npapi plugins will load without graphics? Jun 24 14:28:12 is there a null plugin anywhere? Jun 24 14:28:17 midpSSH to be precice Jun 24 14:28:21 yes Jun 24 14:28:25 http://webos.pastebin.com/m8adf039 Jun 24 14:28:37 no one has created a null plugin yet. Jun 24 14:28:55 I mean does it have a null plugin? Jun 24 14:29:05 Uh.... Jun 24 14:29:25 if there anyway to get stdout/stderr from the browser process? Jun 24 14:29:33 you want to ask that in a waythat would be meaningful assuming I have no idea what you're askiing tmzt? Jun 24 14:29:52 no. There is currently no way to get stdout/stderr from the browser. Jun 24 14:30:56 netscape/firefox usually ship with a null plugin in the plugin folder, what I'm asking is if the pre does Jun 24 14:30:57 tmzt: only problem is of course the browser doesn't support downloads Jun 24 14:31:03 find / |grep null should tell you Jun 24 14:31:16 tmzt: and then there is the question of would I need the jad or the .jar and how to get it on the phone Jun 24 14:31:16 I hear that's a minor javascript change :) Jun 24 14:32:17 http://predev.wikidot.com/downloading-from-the-browser Jun 24 14:33:45 Bsims: it doesn't have j2me so that won't work Jun 24 14:34:07 * Bsims laughs smeg, it was an idea Jun 24 14:34:28 your options now are use (and pay for) classic and use a palmos client, try to get framebuffer thing working, or use ajax Jun 24 14:35:33 Default Plugin Jun 24 14:35:34 File name: libnullplugin.so The default plugin handles plugin data for mimetypes and extensions that are not specified and facilitates downloading of new plugins. Jun 24 14:35:52 (from firefox about:plugins) Jun 24 14:36:27 tmzt: I didn't think they got anyterm working Jun 24 14:36:52 so, what are webkit plugins like? Jun 24 14:36:57 there are javascript vt100 emulators right? Jun 24 14:37:08 similar from what I've read Jun 24 14:37:36 my big open question is what NpWindow* is a wrapper for Jun 24 14:37:59 http://fzort.org/bi/o.php Jun 24 14:38:08 and of course the details of the api. The json stuff is supposed to be based on some available library that was mentioned earlier Jun 24 14:38:11 what is that? Jun 24 14:38:16 oh Jun 24 14:39:41 does anyone know where the image files are located for bookmarks? and the files to edit/call for those images? Jun 24 14:40:09 check the logs, someone posted that the other day,, but it didn't make it into the wiki Jun 24 14:42:27 yeah i didn't see it in the logs rick. grrrrr Jun 24 14:43:00 if cphelps shows up, ask him. He's been digging in the browser more than anyone else. Jun 24 14:44:00 thanks Rick_ Jun 24 14:44:01 Grr catapa suck Jun 24 14:44:58 OK.... looking for a volunteer for a bit of cleanup. Anyone willing to donate 10 or 15 minutes to the wiki? Simple request. Jun 24 14:45:58 [[notes how everyone scurries for the shadows]] Jun 24 14:49:16 ok, ok I take it back. Jun 24 14:50:13 haha Jun 24 15:09:52 who can help in changing Search functions in webos? Jun 24 15:10:01 http://predev.wikidot.com/global-search-addons Jun 24 15:10:30 what is it you want to do? Jun 24 15:10:34 i completed all steps to the T and when i try to search for something, there are no images that appear, only empty lines Jun 24 15:10:45 can't even see what your searching. Jun 24 15:11:14 I had that, I think.... Jun 24 15:11:36 what could have happened? I made the root ro again. Jun 24 15:11:49 you made a punctuation error in step 3 Jun 24 15:11:56 Turns out the lines I added in "this.URLs = {" section did not have commas at the end of them Jun 24 15:12:07 all need commas at the end, only the last one doesn't Jun 24 15:12:20 that would do it too. Jun 24 15:12:42 ahh syntax Jun 24 15:13:08 colons, semi-colons, commas, spaces. Computers are so /fussy/ Jun 24 15:13:17 what a pain in the a$$ Jun 24 15:13:34 is that the error that is caused by not having twitter as the last entry? Jun 24 15:13:49 you ever work with python? invisible syntax! Jun 24 15:14:03 nope, 1st time Jun 24 15:14:04 I don't think I had twitter as my last, but wasn't a problem Jun 24 15:14:14 rwhitby is working on a multi-file patching system out of ipkg-opt. They're cross-compiling it this morning, and we ought tobe able to post links to multi-file patches that just DO this stuff instead of having to edit by hand. Jun 24 15:14:31 i am right in the way i am editing right? copy file to media/internal, then USB, and open in word pad? Jun 24 15:14:37 Rick_: awesome Jun 24 15:14:42 Robi- that's why I promised never -ever- to write another line of python as long as I live. Jun 24 15:14:45 I saw his patch add/remove launcher pages Jun 24 15:14:47 use meta packages for diffs Jun 24 15:15:02 NxlKing2304 -- that's not the way _I_ would do it. Jun 24 15:15:14 how do you do it? Jun 24 15:15:30 Rick_: that's a bit harsh.. .py is useful, just need a text editor that illuminates spaces ;] Jun 24 15:15:46 FIRST, I would /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano Jun 24 15:15:59 which gets you the nano editor which is really really easy to use. Jun 24 15:16:10 then, if you want to edit file xxx.yy Jun 24 15:16:23 cp ccc.yy ./xxx.yy.safe Jun 24 15:16:44 then /opt/bin/nano xxx.yy Jun 24 15:16:49 and edit it right there. Jun 24 15:16:52 * sugardave is hearing about how he won't be getting a raise again this year. Jun 24 15:16:55 interesting Jun 24 15:16:57 nano -cwz file Jun 24 15:17:11 sugardave, you're nt getting fired or laid off? Jun 24 15:17:13 -c helps with line numbers Jun 24 15:17:19 -w long lines Jun 24 15:17:21 good point Robi- Jun 24 15:17:28 -z suspend if needed Jun 24 15:17:32 is there a way to find what my evdo IP is? It seems the IP that I get from hitting a web page is not the same Jun 24 15:17:43 and if you're using putty, drag the window out real wide so that long lines don't bother you. Jun 24 15:17:57 djk1: ifconfig ppp0 Jun 24 15:18:17 and your wifi is ifconfig eth0 Jun 24 15:18:27 I don't have wifi access to it from the work Jun 24 15:18:46 djk1, go to cmyip.com with the browser on your phone while in EVDO mode Jun 24 15:19:10 with ad-hoc wifi you may soon Jun 24 15:20:17 djkl, you can do usbnet to the pre from your laptop, and then from the laptop out to the universe..... Jun 24 15:21:40 just dont use the t word Jun 24 15:22:08 yes I understand that is a dirty word Jun 24 15:22:35 try a different libertas driver Jun 24 15:23:22 sorry, that would be if the firmware is compatible Jun 24 15:23:55 from the mjg post I find that it uses a preloader for the firmware, but I don't know if the protocol is the same as other libertas devices Jun 24 15:24:19 sorry got cut off Jun 24 15:24:34 everything still looks right though. Jun 24 15:24:35 Rick_: I didn't do the usbnet steps at home last night and can't do much using the work machine. I was hoping I could connect from the ppp0 but the IP that hits web pages is not the actual phone most likelly a proxy Jun 24 15:25:22 PtPP Jun 24 15:25:25 I was able to connect to the ppp0 last night unfortunately didn't note the IP Jun 24 15:25:26 NxlKing2304, it can't be. Jun 24 15:25:52 cut those lines out, and paste them into the pastebin http://webos.pastebin.com and paste the link back here. Jun 24 15:25:59 so i should be checking step 3 or 2 Jun 24 15:26:02 djk1: then set up DYNDNS for your pre once you get home Jun 24 15:26:03 seperate pastebin for each of the 3 files.... Jun 24 15:26:19 NxlKing2304 -- all 3 steps. Jun 24 15:26:34 do what? Jun 24 15:27:12 Robi-: That is the plan do the scripts support no-ip.org? Jun 24 15:27:52 pretty much all are supported by ez-ip Jun 24 15:27:54 oh ok, brb Jun 24 15:28:30 i use a service that's not mentioned, which is gnudip2 compatible.. Jun 24 15:28:44 Rick_: btw I did webosdoctor and followed the rooting steps. The rewrite is good Jun 24 15:29:03 thank you Jun 24 15:29:14 I tried. Jun 24 15:29:26 you do more than try Jun 24 15:29:28 willing to pay forward djkl ? Jun 24 15:30:01 What do you have in mind Jun 24 15:30:34 js file = http://webos.pastebin.com/m3ffff0f7 Jun 24 15:31:03 pick any one of the portal pages on the startup of the wiki, and add a descriptive line for each link. Jun 24 15:31:16 should take 10 minutes max. Jun 24 15:31:52 css file = http://webos.pastebin.com/m662ec554 Jun 24 15:32:46 html file = http://webos.pastebin.com/m7046ec81 Jun 24 15:33:03 what do you guys think? am i missing something. I'm sure it's like a dumb comma or something. Jun 24 15:33:09 i've been up all night Jun 24 15:33:11 sorry Jun 24 15:34:23 comma missing after ebay line Jun 24 15:34:29 comma missing after imdb line Jun 24 15:34:31 in the js Jun 24 15:35:25 damn, your right, that was the only thing Jun 24 15:35:28 what the hell, lol Jun 24 15:35:48 * Robi- plays the violin (briefly) Jun 24 15:36:21 djk1, that's odd about the EVDO IP being proxied...I was able to hit mine from the one I got by visiting an IP display web site (I used cmyip.com as I suggested to you)....are you sure you aren't accidentally connected to a WiFi spot? Jun 24 15:36:37 http://predev.wikidot.com/usbnet-setup that's pretty cool. it was fairly easy to enable dhcp without any additional packages, so you don't have to set your ip. Jun 24 15:37:08 I'd like to edit the page to that effect, but it may be too close to topics verboten. Anyone want to chime in on that idea? Jun 24 15:37:21 drnull: no, you are ok Jun 24 15:37:23 no, that's not forbidden at all. Jun 24 15:37:25 go for it. Jun 24 15:37:30 thanks Jun 24 15:37:35 you need an edit invite for the wiki? Jun 24 15:37:40 pm me an email address Jun 24 15:37:43 drnull: just don't use the T word Jun 24 15:38:03 it's *SOOO* much nicer scping WebOS apps over when your connection doesn't keep timing out. :) Jun 24 15:38:07 mdklein_: you around, chief? Jun 24 15:38:13 Rick_: I'm good, got one, thanks. Jun 24 15:38:42 drnull: that can be avoided, see the /ad-hoc-networking page Jun 24 15:39:35 cphelps: yeah Jun 24 15:40:20 * sugardave still maintains that 'ping -n -1' against a USB-connected Pre keeps other SSH sessions alive. Jun 24 15:40:28 though I hear some people say it doesn't work for them Jun 24 15:40:40 usb connection should keep the wifi on anyway Jun 24 15:40:42 no need to ping Jun 24 15:40:47 mine doesn't do that Jun 24 15:40:53 it still sleeps sometimes Jun 24 15:40:53 interesting - mine does Jun 24 15:41:03 but, it may be that battery thing I might be running into Jun 24 15:42:17 interesting Jun 24 15:42:25 i wonder if it's a dev mode thing then ? Jun 24 15:42:30 sugardave: not on wifi, maybe the ssh and iptalbes changes didn't stick but that is hard to believe Jun 24 15:42:33 usually when i am connected via usb, i am in dev mode .. Jun 24 15:42:42 so maybe dev + usb makes it not go to sleep Jun 24 15:43:00 ah, that might be....I think I was in dev mode, though, when it was happening...I'll have to play around with it some more tonight Jun 24 15:44:11 anybody know irssi and how to swith to windows 11 and beyond? Jun 24 15:44:46 esc+{q,w,e,r,t,y} etc. Jun 24 15:45:13 or /window close the ones you dont need anymore Jun 24 15:45:23 ah, yes, just found it, thanks! Jun 24 15:45:28 you can also use /wc instead of /window close Jun 24 15:45:36 ah, that's more helpful Jun 24 15:45:38 thanks! Jun 24 15:45:41 Robi-: I NEED ALL OF THEM!!!! :-P Jun 24 15:45:59 hehe no bathroom break for you then! (/wc) Jun 24 15:52:21 ok, anybody want to give the dhcp settings a shot to make sure I didn't miss anything? http://predev.wikidot.com/usbnet-setup Jun 24 15:53:16 anything fun going on? :) Jun 24 15:53:27 it was until you showed up >_> :-P Jun 24 15:53:33 :P Jun 24 15:56:19 drnull: fix bluetooh spelling :P Jun 24 15:56:46 hahaha, I'm not responsible for that whole page. But I'll fix it. Jun 24 15:56:56 does precentral keep selling out of stuff, or do they just not know when they are getting official palm items Jun 24 15:57:40 drnull: that's a huge dhcp pool range for just 1 ip Jun 24 15:58:05 why not leave it at 1-2 ips Jun 24 15:58:28 rick, you still here? Jun 24 15:58:44 i got disconnected again. they are playing with my connections over here Jun 24 15:59:10 Robi-: sounds good. I was just following examples I had seen. Jun 24 15:59:16 nice re: the ipk prompt Jun 24 15:59:21 the fixed the problem sort of?? Now when I search, I can see the text and the find bar, but no other bars appear under it, like the google, and so forth Jun 24 16:00:55 has anyone figure out how to scroll left-right in the browser URL bar? Jun 24 16:01:15 **RICK**, you still here? Jun 24 16:01:57 Rick_: ^ Jun 24 16:02:06 Robi-: Orange button and then right/left movement on the touchscreen? Or do you mean something else? Jun 24 16:03:39 thats it! sux u gotta hold it Jun 24 16:04:07 whoever mentioned last night that their update check was slow...man, it sure is today Jun 24 16:05:05 searedice: that in the docs somewhere? Jun 24 16:05:42 Rick back Jun 24 16:05:53 nice Jun 24 16:06:49 rick is at work, and occasionally has to talk toactual customers. Jun 24 16:06:57 Robi-: I think it's in the "quickstart" pamphlet thing that comes in the box with the Pre...probably in the PDF manual too Jun 24 16:06:57 lol, me too Jun 24 16:08:23 nubs Jun 24 16:08:52 searedice: that explains it, never went through that stuff Jun 24 16:10:46 Robi-: Page 49 of the PDF manual :P... which also shows how to select text (hold [Shift] instead of [Orange] and then do the same touchscreen draggy stuff). Also see the "tip" box on page 68 for how to copy/paste/cut without using the Edit menu Jun 24 16:10:50 the pdf manual? Jun 24 16:11:05 * sugardave must have missed something. Jun 24 16:11:23 http://www.palm.com/us/support/handbooks/pre/p100eww/PalmPre_UG_Sprint_p100eww.pdf Jun 24 16:11:30 so rick, what do ya think? the 1st problem is fixed sort of. When I try to search, i can see the textfield and everything, but no buttons for google etc. Jun 24 16:11:57 danke Jun 24 16:12:08 dou itashimashite Jun 24 16:13:51 speaking of the selection/cursor movement shortcuts...I think they made the finger movement amount for moving the cursor a single character too small...I wonder if that's something I could tweak Jun 24 16:19:52 niec Jun 24 16:23:05 To delete multiple list items, throw each one off the screen. If you get the Jun 24 16:23:09 Delete confirmation prompt after throwing the first item, you don.t need to Jun 24 16:23:12 tap it.just throw the second item, and the first deletion is confirmed Jun 24 16:23:14 automatically. Jun 24 16:23:19 correct Jun 24 16:23:30 I hope palm looks at the way Apple did copy text on the iPhone, it's such a slick way of doing it Jun 24 16:23:56 what did they do? Jun 24 16:24:00 NxlKing2304 I didn't look at your other pastebins after I did the firstone. Jun 24 16:24:07 i like palms, its a bit sensitive tho Jun 24 16:24:15 but I'm prepared to bet a bright shiny new nickle that there are similar erors Jun 24 16:24:33 lol, i'll check it again, brb Jun 24 16:24:40 you hold your finger down on the text for 2-3 seconds, then it selects the word you were holding and puts too little knobs around it Jun 24 16:24:43 ok, my pre is so hot it hurts to touch Jun 24 16:24:43 wtf Jun 24 16:24:52 you can then drag the knobs how you like, to the left, to the right, and if you don't want to copy text you just click somewhere else to cancel it Jun 24 16:24:58 i wish i had one of those point to test temperature things Jun 24 16:25:10 psykoz: could be patented ;-/ Jun 24 16:26:04 palm could do top or left pulls selection left, bottom or right pulls selection right Jun 24 16:26:20 that would be one way to improove the existing selections Jun 24 16:29:43 Can anyone recommend a hex-editor for windows? Jun 24 16:31:53 blau-mikeDG: ya if you tap-hold and pull, the selectino should start ;-/ Jun 24 16:32:02 if over selectable text.. Jun 24 16:32:18 I briefly wrote some documents on com.palm.downloadmanager http://predev.wikidot.com/com-palm-downloadmanager Jun 24 16:32:20 at least xcv work Jun 24 16:33:31 http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~prewett/hexedit/ Jun 24 16:33:35 mdklein_: cool, someone will format it.. Jun 24 16:34:05 Thanks, Rick_ Jun 24 16:34:15 mdklein did you link it off the research portal? Jun 24 16:36:57 Rick_ just did Jun 24 16:37:25 good Jun 24 16:37:41 portals good. Orphan pages bad. Jun 24 16:38:03 I have to take 2 days vacation by end of month, so I'll hopefully get a bunch more interfaces documented soon Jun 24 16:38:17 thinking friday and monday... Jun 24 16:38:19 heh Jun 24 16:38:36 that sounds like an excellent plan Jun 24 16:38:54 you can end up with a 3-day week the following week, too Jun 24 16:39:07 oh yeah, forgot about that Jun 24 16:40:06 end of July I'm offline for a week as I ride a bike across iowa... it's much more fun than it sounds Jun 24 16:42:56 that COULD be fun, I suppose.... Jun 24 16:43:11 but not here, Austin, TX is freaking HOT right now Jun 24 16:44:18 last year it started out horribly windy... then it got hot and sunny... then it rained and was fairly cold and calm the rest of the week... Jun 24 16:44:31 this year, SNOW Jun 24 16:44:39 and earthquakes! Jun 24 16:45:00 there's like 10,000 other people doing it too though, and there's vendors along the route... it's 50-80 miles a day, but you stop so much it doesn't seem that bad :-p Jun 24 16:45:21 I actually heard a guy saying "we're expecting weather tonight" when the college world series was going to play Jun 24 16:45:24 how much cash you need for the trip? Jun 24 16:45:27 no shit? weather, huh? Jun 24 16:45:31 I think we;re having that, too! Jun 24 16:45:32 it's a big travelling party... on bicycles heh Jun 24 16:45:54 event name? Jun 24 16:46:08 mdklein, that's cool, how many total miles/ Jun 24 16:46:09 ? Jun 24 16:46:16 mdklein: you're doing the RAGBRAI? Jun 24 16:46:38 Robi: last year I think I took 300, but didn't come close to spending it... camping helps, and I'm on a team that cooks provides beer... eating out every night/buying vendor beer would probably get pretty expensive Jun 24 16:46:41 djk1: yeah Jun 24 16:46:50 RAGBRAI is the name Jun 24 16:47:37 A few friends have done that about 3 or 4 times they would have a great time Jun 24 16:48:02 this year is 442miles Jun 24 16:48:21 it'll be my second year Jun 24 16:48:33 cool Jun 24 16:48:35 you have to dip the back wheel in the river on one side and the front on the other if you are really doing it ;-) Jun 24 16:49:34 road bikes i take it, not mtn Jun 24 16:49:40 I'm hoping to have the pre do some tracking of progress. Jun 24 16:49:51 Robi: there's some crazy people that do it on mtn... Jun 24 16:49:58 last year I saw a guy rollerblading it Jun 24 16:50:03 hehe Jun 24 16:50:38 I had a hybrid last year... it was rough... this year I have a nice road bike... hoping it's easier ;-) Jun 24 17:00:05 mdklein_: you ride and hack the Pre. Officially my new hero. Jun 24 17:01:08 They need to release some more new apps Jun 24 17:01:32 we're doing ok for no SDK.. Jun 24 17:02:26 RICK -- Still haveing problems, could you look at it one more time for me? I'm going blind. Jun 24 17:03:06 http://webos.pastebin.com/m3ffff0f7 Jun 24 17:03:16 http://webos.pastebin.com/m662ec554 Jun 24 17:03:24 http://webos.pastebin.com/m7046ec81 Jun 24 17:03:24 Robi-: I wasn't meaning the hacking apps/tweaks Jun 24 17:03:37 neither was i Jun 24 17:03:49 i have checked all these files and can't find anything wrong. Jun 24 17:06:08 you didn't do new ones, right NxlKing2304 ? This is the same ones? Jun 24 17:06:38 right, i only corrected those two commas you pointed out before Jun 24 17:06:49 uh Jun 24 17:06:58 so there is still a comma after wikipedia? Jun 24 17:07:08 grrr Jun 24 17:07:19 which, being the last element in the list, should not have a comma after it? Jun 24 17:07:22 lol Jun 24 17:07:57 whassa matter nebula Jun 24 17:08:06 freakin sdl Jun 24 17:08:16 i swear i'm a moron!!! Jun 24 17:08:18 ty Jun 24 17:08:18 keybindings, screen stretching... Jun 24 17:08:21 ugh. Jun 24 17:08:52 contra is running at 100% speed, yet my key bindings are... impossible. Jun 24 17:10:44 can you map EVERYTING to a lower case letter? Jun 24 17:11:10 NxlKing2304 -- note, I STILL havnnt looked at theother two files. Jun 24 17:12:14 ok, that is pobably the problem. that will teach me to copy and paste stuff Jun 24 17:12:17 Rick_: there is no "legend" for mapping that i have found to be accurate, ie remapping 5 to j just doesnt work Jun 24 17:12:28 seems like the codes are off Jun 24 17:16:25 nebula, trying to figure out how to type numbers ? Jun 24 17:16:29 heh Jun 24 17:16:31 yeah Jun 24 17:16:51 remap your keymapping .. and make escape-letter be equal to the number .. Jun 24 17:17:03 1 and 5 to be precise, then need to remap lctrl, lalt and lshift Jun 24 17:17:06 there has to be an easy way to do multi-stroke keymaps Jun 24 17:17:22 bpadalino|work: yeah thats not working, both sdlmap and normal map Jun 24 17:17:24 i just wanted to state "You peeople have no lives" :P Jun 24 17:17:31 the codes just dont match up Jun 24 17:17:56 <-- feeling stupid. I just realized that the animal on the cover of O'Reilly's book is a Luna Moth Jun 24 17:18:04 nebula: from they key-codes wiki page? Jun 24 17:18:20 er? which is where Jun 24 17:18:26 its not an owl? Jun 24 17:18:26 rick: what is the latest chapter thats in the rouch cuts? Jun 24 17:18:32 topic Jun 24 17:18:41 nebula, write a small program to print out the ascii code for when you press the buttons ? Jun 24 17:18:48 so you can easily map ? Jun 24 17:18:50 i thought it was an owl Jun 24 17:18:54 yeah it doesn't seem to be ascii codes Jun 24 17:19:02 lemme explain with links Jun 24 17:19:15 rick, same thing is happening, after taking that comma out Jun 24 17:19:18 i feel sooo stupid Jun 24 17:19:19 chapter 10 came out yesterday. Jun 24 17:19:36 nebula, please do Jun 24 17:20:10 I thought they already used an owl for another book. Jun 24 17:20:44 so, what happens when the "real" book is released, do the rough-cut buyers get a "final" pdf of the pressed copy? Jun 24 17:20:55 or are you stuck with the maybe not revised copy Jun 24 17:20:56 ? Jun 24 17:21:04 bpadalino|work: example, http://www.koders.com/noncode/fid2115607F6C98C299D9F5167D756FADE1047E85DE.aspx Jun 24 17:21:47 sugardave: We get emailed a link to a new pDF any time the book is updated. I will also get a physical copy of the book upon completion. Jun 24 17:21:55 http://predev.wikidot.com/key-codes help? Jun 24 17:22:09 bpadalino|work: using that somewhat logically as a reference, i've tried to remap both mapkey and sdlmapkey to various settings, nothing works Jun 24 17:22:11 lemme check that Jun 24 17:22:33 Robi-: i don't think xmame uses ascii key codes Jun 24 17:23:00 those are more for the ui then Jun 24 17:23:37 NxlKing2304 http://webos.pastebin.com/d1d055454 is the corrected js Jun 24 17:24:09 i'll check it out, bbr Jun 24 17:24:10 brb Jun 24 17:24:22 nebula, according to the comments in that thing you pasted ... Jun 24 17:24:33 # An example: map space as "firebutton" (Mame predefines it as KEY_LCONTROL) Jun 24 17:24:34 # in symbolic Xlib/Mame notation it should be: Jun 24 17:24:34 # Jun 24 17:24:34 # mapkey XK_space,KEY_LCONTROL Jun 24 17:24:43 XK_space is the ascii character returned .. Jun 24 17:24:57 as seen here: http://www.openmash.org/lxr/source/xlib/X11/keysymdef.h?c=tk8.3#L245 Jun 24 17:25:28 so, to replace sdl m in place of sdl 5? Jun 24 17:26:59 NxlKing2304 does search-imdb.png exist images? Jun 24 17:27:14 in the images directory? Jun 24 17:27:21 yes Jun 24 17:27:34 i used the one on the site Jun 24 17:27:35 nebula, btw - the keypad is connected to a MAX7359 over i2c for the keys .. Jun 24 17:27:57 i checked my file and is exactly like yours. unless i'm missing something Jun 24 17:28:03 NxlKing2304 -- tell me again what happens..... Jun 24 17:28:27 and did you re-start luna? Jun 24 17:28:32 to clear the cache? Jun 24 17:28:42 re-start luna? Jun 24 17:28:42 pkill LunaSysMgr or one of the alteratives? Jun 24 17:29:02 you need to re-start webOS after modifying a webOS program Jun 24 17:29:16 when i search something no buttons appear except the find button which is the text fiel Jun 24 17:29:28 i did a reboot while in python Jun 24 17:29:39 on the palm? Jun 24 17:29:45 you put python on the palm? Jun 24 17:29:50 no Jun 24 17:29:56 i mean in putty, sorry Jun 24 17:30:11 log into your pre, and type pkill LunaSysMgr Jun 24 17:30:16 you will get the pulsing palm Jun 24 17:30:19 then try again. Jun 24 17:30:32 ok brb Jun 24 17:32:18 did that, waiting for it to come back up. i'll let you kknow what happens! Jun 24 17:33:14 you have to restart luna every time you mod a program in luna Jun 24 17:33:29 still same thing Jun 24 17:33:35 there are several ways to do that. this one is just the shortest to type Jun 24 17:33:36 you can tell luna to rescan, can't you? or does that not flush the cache ? Jun 24 17:33:52 see previous rock bpadalinao Jun 24 17:35:00 http://webos.pastebin.com/m430fbfe9 Jun 24 17:35:12 that is my js file which is modified. Jun 24 17:38:56 did you keep backups? Jun 24 17:39:01 Rick_: doesn't the remove fakeapp avoid the restart? Jun 24 17:39:18 Rick knows nothing about remove fakeapp Jun 24 17:39:35 rick sleeps sometimes Jun 24 17:39:41 yes sir Jun 24 17:39:46 luna command that removes an app that doesn't exist , seems to force an update of the cache/etc Jun 24 17:39:59 i have backups of all files! at least i'm smart like that. should i just redo thm again? Jun 24 17:40:13 NxlKing2304 -- put your backups back. prove that it's your files. restart luna see if it works default Jun 24 17:40:36 then... ADD a line without deleting any. Just add. Jun 24 17:41:01 http://predev.wikidot.com/background-editing Jun 24 17:41:13 Then to reload you can try the following command instead of a reboot: Jun 24 17:41:13 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.appinstaller/remove {\"subscribe\":true,\"packageName\":\"somerandomstring\"}} Jun 24 17:41:18 Iseem to recall someone saying that removing twitter broke it to.... Jun 24 17:41:39 Robi- yea. See why I use pkill LunaSysMgr? SO MUCH SHORTER TO TYPE. Jun 24 17:41:41 i did that before, and it worked fine. not restarting luna ever Jun 24 17:41:49 ok Jun 24 17:42:01 then try adding your add, and DO NOT REMOVE TWITTER and see if that works. Jun 24 17:42:11 ok Jun 24 17:42:13 dude, alias lr=luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.appinstaller/remove {\"subscribe\":true,\"packageName\":\"somerandomstring\"}} Jun 24 17:42:27 lunareload in 2 chars Jun 24 17:42:28 Dude.... Jun 24 17:43:02 in quotes of course Jun 24 17:45:39 Robi-: after I discovered that I discovered palm://com.palm.appinstaller/rescan {} which is a lot less to type (also, it doesn't clear caches, you'll have to move app outside of path, scan, and move it back) Jun 24 17:45:54 I'm still trying to find a better call, but those work for now Jun 24 17:46:40 mdklein_: but the remove call works and clars cache? Jun 24 17:46:43 +e Jun 24 17:47:13 mdklein_: I've found rescan will clear caches. At least on applications in /var/usr/palm/ Jun 24 17:48:32 drnull: good to know, I didn't do a ton of testing Jun 24 17:48:59 Robi-: I believer that remove just called rescan after it removed the app, so it would do same functionality Jun 24 17:49:09 erm, believe Jun 24 17:49:18 r Jun 24 17:49:21 :P Jun 24 17:49:28 makes sense Jun 24 17:49:43 iBeliever, now that is hilarious Jun 24 17:49:56 * Robi- chuckled Jun 24 17:50:35 whee, get to go work from home now, see y'all in a while Jun 24 17:53:09 woo wiki search is working again Jun 24 17:59:12 ok. now. add your add line in Jun 24 18:07:56 anyone found a way to switch from USB Drive back to just charge without having to unplug the usb cable? Jun 24 18:08:24 it's possible the cpu/driver don't support that Jun 24 18:09:00 PreGame: you can kill lunasysmgr Jun 24 18:09:14 PreGame: which means you can probably do it with a luna-send Jun 24 18:09:23 cphelps: ah, you were working on browser stuff? did you do anything with plugins Jun 24 18:09:47 tmzt: no, just enabling downloading of files Jun 24 18:34:46 now that it has been figured out how to install an app via email has anyone figured out how to launch a Java app? Jun 24 18:34:57 with output on the screen ? Jun 24 18:35:25 yes Jun 24 18:35:59 probably not possible while luna is still running Jun 24 18:36:01 it has been for vnc client and a game emulator via an sshconnection Jun 24 18:36:29 i don't understand your last statement ? Jun 24 18:38:13 it has been done ... Jun 24 18:38:38 djk: those are not Luna Jun 24 18:38:48 djk: you have to install an alternate frame buffer Jun 24 18:38:57 Ah Jun 24 18:39:16 hmm Jun 24 18:39:43 anyone know how to get virtualbox ubuntu to see my shared folder? Jun 24 18:39:55 nebula: you got the vnc client working right? Jun 24 18:40:08 no keys though :( Jun 24 18:40:30 yeah, vnc was fun Jun 24 18:40:41 djk: I created a java service which is running on the pre Jun 24 18:41:08 PreGame, i believe it's a standard smb share. try going to places network and if you don't see it there you could in a address bar type smb://vboxsvr/SHARENAME (not positive) Jun 24 18:41:25 PreGame: Do you think that would allow me to connect to databases outside of what Mojo wants me to? Jun 24 18:41:45 yep Jun 24 18:42:14 that's one thing i didn't look at - is there a JDBC for the sqlite db's for java access ? Jun 24 18:42:52 bpadalino|work: most assuredly Jun 24 18:43:18 PreGame: are you going to write up what you've done on the wiki? Jun 24 18:43:37 ah, there ti is .. Jun 24 18:43:43 sqlitejdbc-053.jar Jun 24 18:43:46 wait vut. someone's writing to the sqlite3 db? Jun 24 18:44:46 cphelps: No i am to lazy Jun 24 18:45:27 PreGame: mind passing on your project files? Jun 24 18:45:30 laziness abounds Jun 24 18:45:59 when i get this shell issue figured out i will Jun 24 18:46:03 PreGame.... I have a question. Jun 24 18:46:17 k Jun 24 18:46:27 you say in your post on precentral that you can use the prelease service to execute shell commands. Jun 24 18:46:46 yes Jun 24 18:47:36 just any old shell commands? Jun 24 18:49:06 what ever is on the system Jun 24 18:49:16 ok. Jun 24 18:49:25 basically what it does is execute /bin/sh Jun 24 18:49:38 well no Jun 24 18:50:12 it executes whatever file you specify so if you want it to do a shell command just type runCmd {"cmd":"/bin/sh echo hello"} Jun 24 18:50:36 so... is there a theoretical reason we could not take the commands that are executed by talk.py, root the pre from a mojo app? which could be done just by pressing a button? Jun 24 18:50:49 andthen produce a mailable ipk to just do that? Jun 24 18:51:07 are you talking to me? Jun 24 18:51:12 I was. Jun 24 18:51:56 well, you could create a mojo app which runs commands via root access Jun 24 18:52:27 you wouldn't need any commands from talk.py since you wont need to use any novacom commands Jun 24 18:52:41 is there any way to get the stdout information that it produces BACK? from running the command? Jun 24 18:55:25 yes it should return any output given Jun 24 18:56:12 do luna-send -n 1 palm://com.pregame.prelease/runCmd '{"cmd":"echo hello"}' Jun 24 18:56:30 the only issue right now it it seems to not want to do redirects Jun 24 18:57:24 so, ignoring the idea of running things like editors.... it would be possible to make a simple two field mojo app, where you could type in a command in a text box, and get the reply in a response text box, essentially giving you command line access to the pre without rooting. Jun 24 18:58:40 Rick_: that would be great for ifconfig -a Jun 24 18:59:20 unless I am completely mis-understanding what PreGame is saying. Jun 24 19:04:49 and, if I understood what rwhitby was saying last night, then the ipk packager can run an after completion script.... so if you write an app like this that has a service, the after-completion script can start the service for you.... Jun 24 19:04:57 hmmmm Jun 24 19:05:45 root@castle:/# luna-send -n 1 palm://com.pregame.prelease/runCmd '{"cmd":"whoami Jun 24 19:05:45 "}' Jun 24 19:05:45 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returned:":"root"} Jun 24 19:10:19 PreGame: what does ifconfig -a return? Jun 24 19:10:27 PreGame: nice Jun 24 19:10:31 sweet Jun 24 19:10:52 PreGame: did you add your own service? Jun 24 19:11:27 he did. Jun 24 19:11:33 add his own service, yes. Jun 24 19:21:45 It got quiet in here Jun 24 19:22:20 I sispect several of us were reading java source code..... Jun 24 19:22:26 at least I was Jun 24 19:23:01 That or working so we keep getting a paycheck Jun 24 19:23:20 how did he add his own service Jun 24 19:25:38 You might try to get PreGame to write that up. but he says in the readme that he based his service on ShilAli's. Jun 24 19:26:36 get his app here: http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/homebrew-apps/20272d1245783244-my-flashlight-requires-rooting-flashlight_w_readme.zip Jun 24 19:26:59 I gotta say, a java class named "flameon" :-) hehehehehe Jun 24 19:29:44 and who says geek don't have a sense of humor Jun 24 19:30:00 I've been reading through this channel's chat logs...funny seeing the guys in here a few days ago figuring out the same things I've been knocking my head over Jun 24 19:30:15 that's why the logs are so useful. Jun 24 19:30:42 you don't have to beat yourself up re-inventing the wheel. Since not everything gets written up into the wiki. Jun 24 19:31:07 yeah...the logs are a lot to read, but it's worth it Jun 24 19:40:46 lol @ Rick Jun 24 19:41:30 I was going to make a .wave when you turned on the flashlight it would be me speaking in a lisp going *snap my fingers* FLAME ONNNN!!! Jun 24 19:41:46 lol Jun 24 19:41:47 lol Jun 24 19:42:02 PreGame... here's my stupid question number 10^3.14 -- where did you get the includes? Jun 24 19:42:12 quick wuestion: there is no way to see the pre's linux filesystem in a GUI? its all command line? Jun 24 19:42:30 the java libraries? Jun 24 19:42:33 lane: You could install sftp per the wiki then browse it with an SFTP client. Jun 24 19:42:35 ah Jun 24 19:42:43 PreGame, yes. Jun 24 19:42:44 probably Jun 24 19:42:52 from the webdoctor.jar file Jun 24 19:43:14 rick, you can link against .class files .. Jun 24 19:43:24 oic, SFTP it is then Jun 24 19:43:25 and finally, what version of java did you compile with? Jun 24 19:43:32 and palm did nothing to obfuscate the files Jun 24 19:43:51 ill probably be back, all ive done is rooted it Jun 24 19:43:52 the bytecode is all the same - so it shouldn't matter? but i think 1.6 or 1.5 would both work Jun 24 19:44:06 bpadalino|work I keep forgetting that. I hate java. Really hate writing it a lot. Jun 24 19:44:39 understandable Jun 24 19:45:06 Rick_: the pre uses 1.5 Jun 24 19:45:28 1.6 will not work on 1.5 :-\ i tried Jun 24 19:45:41 oh Jun 24 19:45:41 ok Jun 24 19:45:50 54 years old, progrmaming since 1971. Java just seems _wrong_ to me. It seems like a philosophical statement about object inheritance masquerading as a language. Jun 24 19:46:14 it is very object oriented, that is true Jun 24 19:46:15 Oddly, I don't mind writing javascript, and simply adore Ruby. But java.... ick. Spit. Jun 24 19:46:20 i wouldn't say it's wrong Jun 24 19:46:27 interesting Jun 24 19:47:03 It is possible for something to be intensly object oriented without making some of the decisions that the Java implementors insist on. Jun 24 19:47:27 interesting opinion Jun 24 19:49:28 :/ in vi via ssh and i cant get it to save/close Jun 24 19:49:41 esc+w/q isnt working Jun 24 19:49:54 bpadalino|work, this discussion doesn't belong here, but I'll make one point about java that simply offends me. Strings. Strings being immutable is just silly. Strings not being able to be tested with < and > and == is just silly. There's a lot of that there. Jun 24 19:49:59 press escape to get into command mode Jun 24 19:50:03 then type :wq Jun 24 19:50:04 then hit enter Jun 24 19:50:06 lane, escape :wq Jun 24 19:50:41 lane -- /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install nano then use that instead. :-) Jun 24 19:50:44 morning Jun 24 19:50:47 it says "q is not implemented" Jun 24 19:50:50 i can use nano? Jun 24 19:50:51 sweet Jun 24 19:50:54 morning rwhitby Jun 24 19:51:16 thanks rick Jun 24 19:51:47 Morning rwhitby. seven WHOLE hours down. :-) Jun 24 19:58:18 where is my sudoers file? Jun 24 19:58:40 /opt/etc? Jun 24 19:58:41 in /etc Jun 24 20:01:44 So, is there anyone in here who can test stgit for me on the Pre? Jun 24 20:01:56 lane: ipkg-opt files sudo Jun 24 20:02:06 ipkg-opt list | grep -i editor Jun 24 20:02:26 eno: thx for fixing and promoting stgit Jun 24 20:03:17 rwhitby: no problem, it's still missing python, git in DEPENDS Jun 24 20:03:33 I'll fix that Jun 24 20:03:52 i did run it on a qnap, it at least starts okay Jun 24 20:04:28 haven't had the time to do more testing Jun 24 20:05:20 well, hopefully someone in here with a Pre with the Optware feed on it will be helpful and see if it at least runs ... Jun 24 20:05:35 rwhitby, did you see you can write a love letter to the pre and win one ? Jun 24 20:05:53 bpadalino|work: bound to be only open to residents of the USA Jun 24 20:05:58 yeah, some confirmation would be nice Jun 24 20:06:01 rwhitby, lets see Jun 24 20:06:16 rwhitby, I'm more than willing. What do you need me to do? Jun 24 20:06:33 Rick_: ipkg-opt update ; ipkg-opt install git python stgit Jun 24 20:07:01 rwhitby, nothing really limiting to the USA? read here: http://www.precentral.net/win-free-pre-where Jun 24 20:08:08 "You'll need to be creative and original, though" Jun 24 20:08:11 * rwhitby is neither Jun 24 20:08:53 haha Jun 24 20:09:17 i saw that presentation you have online .. it looked creative Jun 24 20:09:36 maybe you could even convey your love with ipkg-opt commands Jun 24 20:10:26 bpadalino|work: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/presentation.pdf is Powerpoint, which is never creative. Jun 24 20:10:35 (by definition) Jun 24 20:10:42 :D SFTP Jun 24 20:11:22 rwhitby, good point Jun 24 20:11:51 * rwhitby realises that SFTP could mean "Source From The Pre" ... Jun 24 20:12:19 look how creative you are!! Jun 24 20:12:29 i think it's a good day for some creative haiku's Jun 24 20:12:53 rwhitby -- fail http://webos.pastebin.com/d737a359b Jun 24 20:13:47 Rick_: weird - did the ipkg-opt update work ok? Jun 24 20:13:56 it did the second time yes. Jun 24 20:14:09 what happened the first time? Jun 24 20:14:26 eno: any ideas ^^ Jun 24 20:14:36 ipkg: invalid compressed data--crc error Jun 24 20:14:59 it's usually because missed "ipkg-opt update" Jun 24 20:15:22 Rick_: are you sure you don't have connection problems Jun 24 20:15:34 second time I got ipkg-opt update Jun 24 20:15:36 Downloading http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/Packages.gz Jun 24 20:15:37 Inflating http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/Packages.gz Jun 24 20:15:39 Updated list of available packages in /opt/lib/ipkg/lists/cs08q1armel Jun 24 20:15:40 Successfully terminated. Jun 24 20:15:43 oops. sorry. Jun 24 20:15:47 Rick_: are you sure you always used "ipkg-opt"? Jun 24 20:15:57 yes Jun 24 20:16:06 both of those errors point to corruption of the download stream Jun 24 20:16:21 ok, lemme try the install again. Jun 24 20:16:39 eno: I'm considering making git depend on openssh, and hard-coding /opt/bin/ssh Jun 24 20:17:13 (since agent forwarding won't work with dropbear, and you really want agent forwarding if you're using git on a Pre, otherwise Palm could get your private ssh keys) Jun 24 20:17:14 rwhitby: it should only suggest openssh Jun 24 20:17:46 eno: I specifically think it should depend on openssh for that reason Jun 24 20:18:19 although one could argue that a non-developer user of git won't need to use ssh ... Jun 24 20:18:57 rwhitby: ah. well, you could mount your ssh keys from a network filesystem, but agent forwarding sounds better, yeah Jun 24 20:19:21 destinal_work: how do you know the Palm backup script won't catch them on that mount? Jun 24 20:19:30 there're scenario of standalone usage of git, but I agree with you, for all practical usage, people use git with ssh Jun 24 20:19:42 oh, uh, because, uh you don't.. Jun 24 20:19:44 :) Jun 24 20:19:59 good point Jun 24 20:20:07 * rwhitby is *very* careful with his private ssh keys Jun 24 20:20:11 rwhitby eno ok python installed stgit installed git -- on six trys always says: Package git md5sum mismatch. Either the ipkg or the package index are corrupt. Try 'ipkg update'. Jun 24 20:21:04 Rick_: try alternating ipkg-opt update and ipkpg-opt install git Jun 24 20:21:26 BTW, I think this proves you've got data corruption in your download stream Jun 24 20:21:43 that's one of the things I plan on working on, documenting all the pre's network traffic in general use Jun 24 20:21:45 unless there is something weird happening on ipkg.nslu2-linux.org at the moment Jun 24 20:21:58 destinal_work: I'll be very interested in that. Jun 24 20:22:09 for instance, it sends location based data to google without asking.. wifi signal strength at least. Jun 24 20:22:38 oh, you can bet Google is working on a database of wifi access points Jun 24 20:22:47 well, that's what it's there for Jun 24 20:22:49 I think Jun 24 20:22:55 is to help your pre locate itself without gps Jun 24 20:23:07 there's an option for that in the location services section Jun 24 20:23:17 rwhitby: it's done Jun 24 20:23:21 just did an "ipkg-opt -force-reinstall install git" on a NAS with cs08q1armel feed Jun 24 20:23:25 works fine Jun 24 20:23:35 Robi-: stg works? Jun 24 20:23:45 rwhitby: googles streetview already scanned wifi networks Jun 24 20:23:56 Robi-: ah, right. good point. Jun 24 20:24:03 bifflechips: ah, background data collection. good call Jun 24 20:24:08 it's on by default AFAIK Jun 24 20:24:16 and google phones will keep it up to date Jun 24 20:24:20 gmaps locates my iTouch over wifi ;] Jun 24 20:24:27 yeah, i've turned mine off Jun 24 20:24:41 rwhitby: google doesn't need to aggregate a database of wifi access points, they use some company, the name escapes me at the moment. Jun 24 20:25:01 sky...something Jun 24 20:25:04 rwhitby - see pm Jun 24 20:25:09 Hi All.. I'm trying to copy something to my pre through WinSCP through sftp.. I must have did something wrong as I get access denied when trying to copy something.. in putty I did sudo mount -o remount,rw / before trying to copy? any help Jun 24 20:25:18 Bartman007: that company's business plan better address the fact that Google will take over their business within a few years ... Jun 24 20:25:29 so while it's supposed to be anonymous, it still contains your IP, which potentially matters a great deal depending on what google stores Jun 24 20:25:34 Skyhook, that's it. Jun 24 20:26:13 rwhitby: quite possibly, but Google currently uses Skyhook to improve non-gps geolocation in Android. Jun 24 20:26:16 spectre686: there is another step during the connection Jun 24 20:26:29 Spectre: when you set up the login info in winSCP did you go to Environment>SFTP and where it says default change it to sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server? Jun 24 20:26:42 spectre686: what Kaerey said Jun 24 20:27:11 We really need to teach people how to set up ssh keys for root and use that for direct sftp access ... Jun 24 20:27:25 all this stuffing around with winscp options is too much Jun 24 20:27:52 oops. I retract that statement, Google doesn't use Skyhook, but a fair number of apps do. Jun 24 20:29:18 I read the directions twice and still missed that lol.. Jun 24 20:29:56 eno: I'm at least going to hard-code /opt/bin/ssh, then it can just be a suggests for openssh Jun 24 20:30:10 Weird I can't find Enivroment>SFTP.. Maybe because I'm running portable WinSCP? Jun 24 20:30:19 rwhitby: sounds good Jun 24 20:30:22 i cant modify files with winscp Jun 24 20:30:25 where is the sound located for the closing of cards? Jun 24 20:30:29 standalone that is Jun 24 20:30:32 Found Enviroment.. But not SFTP option Jun 24 20:30:53 oh I'm a retard Jun 24 20:31:09 haha advanced options duh Jun 24 20:32:58 rwhitby did you ever get access to a pre? Jun 24 20:32:59 Thanks.. Works great. Can't believe I missed a step.. LOL. Jun 24 20:33:44 Kaerey: nope Jun 24 20:34:09 bpadalino you around? Jun 24 20:34:14 i am Jun 24 20:34:15 hi Jun 24 20:36:13 i keep getting permission enied when trying ot edit files Jun 24 20:36:16 denied Jun 24 20:36:22 lane, make your rootfs writable ? Jun 24 20:36:33 i have Jun 24 20:36:35 ill try again Jun 24 20:36:41 strange Jun 24 20:40:43 lane mount -o remount,rw / Jun 24 20:41:10 * Lurking_Grue wants to hunt the the people that made exchange and hit them with a stick. Jun 24 20:42:27 * bromius lights a torch... and is glad he didn't code exchange Jun 24 20:42:42 Ok so who's comfortable with the syntax of the application code and can help me debug something? Jun 24 20:42:46 * Lurking_Grue runs. Jun 24 20:42:47 if I am ssh'd in to root, where would I find the folder where I drop stuff into as a usb drive? Jun 24 20:44:33 peazley, /media/internal Jun 24 20:44:36 i need help... I'm attemting the http://predev.wikidot.com/camera-modifications-additions modifications and i sdon'tkno where to start. I'm just interested in the Jun 24 20:44:54 second button self-timer function. Jun 24 20:45:22 hmm... thats what I thought... all it shows is dcim, and then its empty... when I just click on the drive in my finder I see other folders, but in ssh they don't show up... Jun 24 20:45:43 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1707994&posted=1#post1707994 - who's up for creating some ipkgs which use stgit? Jun 24 20:46:16 :/ Jun 24 20:46:21 still permission denied Jun 24 20:47:01 rwhitby, does git still require python to be installed (as suggested by Rick earlier?) Jun 24 20:48:26 ah, stgit requires python Jun 24 20:48:27 bpadalino|work: stgit is in python, so right now it depends on python25 and git Jun 24 20:48:30 gotcha Jun 24 20:49:58 rwhitby, "Note that StGit is not an SCM interface on top of Git and it expects a previously initialised Git repository" - to perform the patches, does palm's original source code need to be in the git repo ? Jun 24 20:50:02 nevermind, you cannot be in usb drive mode if you want to ssh into those folders..., I know you guys knew that, I wasn't thinking... Jun 24 20:51:08 bpadalino|work: that git repo will be on your device, and will not leave your device. Only the patches leave your device. Jun 24 20:51:33 bpadalino|work: I'm interested to see whether just stgit import will add the files automatically or not. Jun 24 20:51:35 Has anybody here got a pre working with exchange? Jun 24 20:51:45 gotcha - interesting Jun 24 20:51:59 rwhitby, should be trivial to try in a sandbox on any machine ? Jun 24 20:52:21 yeah, I didn't get to that last night. Jun 24 20:52:41 understandable Jun 24 20:53:37 i should be able to log in as root via SFTP right Jun 24 20:54:05 can anybodyhelp me with the camera mod??? Jun 24 20:54:57 rwhitby, quilt wasn't working out for you ? Jun 24 20:56:49 PreGame: are you around? Jun 24 20:58:01 did the qemu image ever work? Jun 24 20:58:22 robi, i couldn't get it working - no Jun 24 20:58:51 ;[ Jun 24 20:59:35 can someone please wget http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk to their Pre and run md5sum on it? Jun 24 21:00:14 md5sum will work anywhere, no? Jun 24 21:00:30 git is 5MB? Jun 24 21:00:31 jeeze Jun 24 21:00:33 or is the pre ver specific Jun 24 21:00:44 $ md5sum git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:00:44 d0b516f3b88d5447a661ad203579e14e *git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:01:25 bpadalino|work thanks -- and weird. Jun 24 21:02:19 is that the correct sum ? Jun 24 21:02:35 i get acc ess denied when i try to login as root via SFTP, and access denied when i try to modify files as the user i made Jun 24 21:03:07 bpadalino|work: yep, that's what I get on my desktop. Jun 24 21:03:20 Rick__ is getting a different md5sum when he downloads to his Pre Jun 24 21:03:23 interesting Jun 24 21:03:31 bpadalino|work: that's also what's in feed Packages file Jun 24 21:03:33 RICK** -- the other thing worked fine. I redid the files without copy and paste and all was well. i must have had an extra space somewhere Jun 24 21:03:41 can you help me with the camera mod Jun 24 21:03:42 btw, python 2.5 seems to be 11M, and 2.6 13M from the cs08q1armel unstable Jun 24 21:03:54 bpadalino: did your download come from osuosl, or dyoung-mirror? Jun 24 21:03:59 let me check Jun 24 21:04:11 dyoung-mirror Jun 24 21:04:39 can I get an third check of that md5sum sum on the Pre please? Jun 24 21:04:56 doing it now, rwhitby Jun 24 21:04:58 thx Jun 24 21:05:00 we initially built these packages for NAS, so size was not a big concern at that time Jun 24 21:05:10 rwhitby: d0b516f3b88d5447a661ad203579e14e Jun 24 21:05:14 eno, understandable Jun 24 21:05:20 guess the packaging should be more fine grained Jun 24 21:05:23 for Pre Jun 24 21:05:35 (thats from my pre, DLed over wifi) Jun 24 21:05:41 jlefler|work: thx Jun 24 21:05:50 Rick__: you have a download corruption problem. Jun 24 21:06:08 rwhitby: the question on the table is whether we should still consider quilt Jun 24 21:06:19 Wow, I managed to completely torch the email service engine. Jun 24 21:06:19 since it's lot smaller Jun 24 21:06:36 rwhitby -- any ideas about what I might do about that? Jun 24 21:08:05 Rick_: nope, but it's a big worry for you. Jun 24 21:08:16 you don't have full partitions or something like that? Jun 24 21:08:45 jblebrun: by overdriving the LED ? ;] Jun 24 21:08:51 god no rwhitby Jun 24 21:09:01 Robi: LOL.. not quite. I was playing with jars ;-) Jun 24 21:09:20 I was trying to fix a bug with attachment handling. Jun 24 21:09:31 oh you need a jar opener.. Jun 24 21:09:57 whats it do now ? Jun 24 21:09:59 jblebrun: you need stgit Jun 24 21:10:17 rwhitby: I need webOS doctor, at the moment ;-) Jun 24 21:10:19 then you could just revert to your previous commit Jun 24 21:10:25 anybody??? Jun 24 21:10:35 rwhitby: I completely reverted all of the files I had touched. Jun 24 21:10:55 which is why it hosed ;] Jun 24 21:11:02 jblebrun: if that was the case, it would be working, right? ;-) Jun 24 21:11:08 But the mail service still won't load on boot. I'm not sure if something's getting cached, or what. Jun 24 21:11:09 Sorry. can't help with the camera mod Jun 24 21:11:39 * rwhitby wonders whether putting the whole Pre filesystem in git would allow us to check things like that ... Jun 24 21:12:32 EvanDotPro: you need an IRC bouncer :-) I use 'bip' myself. Jun 24 21:12:38 does git do binary diffs? Jun 24 21:12:55 yep, better than any other SCM. Jun 24 21:12:56 i still have muh Jun 24 21:13:20 sweet, git subversioned Jun 24 21:14:22 rwhitby: i know, haha. i really just need to pay for xchat instead of using the cracked version.. i was just trying it out, but the crack makes it randomly crash. Jun 24 21:14:53 can anyboy help with the camera mod??? Jun 24 21:15:08 EvanDotPro: I use YChat 2.8.6-1, from silverex.org Jun 24 21:15:28 windows, and no need for cracks Jun 24 21:15:56 well, i didn't _need_ the crack.. heh. i'm all for buying software.. i just wanted to try it out in full before deciding to buy a client. Jun 24 21:16:09 but i'll check out that, thanks. Jun 24 21:16:09 Apparently my Pre is uploading a crash dump report somewhere every few seconds, too ;-) Jun 24 21:16:11 http://www.silverex.org/download/xchat-2.8.6-2.exe Jun 24 21:16:12 what happaned to irssi/BitchX from shell accounts? Jun 24 21:16:15 irssi is a great irc client Jun 24 21:16:22 * EvanDotPro installs Jun 24 21:16:31 NxlKing2304 -- this isn't going to be very nice... and I apologise in advance... but here it is. The wiki is right. If your camera mod isn't working, it's like the search mod. You made a mistake. If you're running on a windows machine, you might copy the unmodified files, and your midified files out to your windows machine and use a tool like csdiff to graphically compare them and... Jun 24 21:16:33 ...see if you did the edits correctly. Jun 24 21:16:34 xchat source is free - you're paying for someone to compile it on windows. there are people who compile it on windows for free. Jun 24 21:16:41 mirc is still free too, no? Jun 24 21:16:47 it was never free Jun 24 21:16:50 shareware Jun 24 21:16:53 i was looking at irssi, but as much as i love cli, i still like to use my mouse for _some_ things lol Jun 24 21:17:03 mirc == paid Jun 24 21:17:09 chatzilla is free. Jun 24 21:17:17 EvanDotPro: you dont need a mouse for irc Jun 24 21:17:26 whoiswhois: yeah, yeah.. i knoww. Jun 24 21:17:31 if you try it ull love it Jun 24 21:17:45 it's pretty efficient Jun 24 21:17:50 i just leave my irc running 24/7 on an external machine in a screen Jun 24 21:17:55 that way i never miss anything Jun 24 21:18:06 screen! Jun 24 21:18:09 * Robi- installs on the pre Jun 24 21:18:12 screen! Jun 24 21:18:13 haha no Jun 24 21:18:22 ssh into another machine from your pre Jun 24 21:18:25 screen -wipe Jun 24 21:18:25 whoiswhois: I use bip, then I can connect to it from multiple different devices (xchat, chatzilla, n800, treo 650, ...) Jun 24 21:18:28 * eno using irssi under screen on nslu2 for years Jun 24 21:18:44 Wow, interesting... Jun 24 21:18:53 eno: nice Jun 24 21:18:55 I removed the jar completely, and now everything is fine. Jun 24 21:19:04 NxlKing2304 -- and I'm sorry I said it, and I wish I knew a better way to put this, but you need to learn techniques for diffing files and finding edit errors if you're going to be messing with hardware at this level of detail. Otherwise, wait a few weeks, and there will be apps and packages to download with these things in them. Jun 24 21:19:07 jblebrun: just renamed it previously? Jun 24 21:19:30 ok thanks Jun 24 21:19:36 Robi: I was just trying to restore the original mail.jar Jun 24 21:19:40 I know it was rude. and I feel bad about it. Jun 24 21:19:47 Robi: The versions from the webOS doctor image were not helping Jun 24 21:20:06 Rick_: on the contrary, you were very polite with an appropriate response. Jun 24 21:20:10 it's all good. I just need a little direction on what to do. I knw what i was doing wrong last time. Jun 24 21:20:17 1.0.2 instead of 1.0.3 ? Jun 24 21:20:25 i didn't think you were rude either, don't orry about it Jun 24 21:20:35 Robi-: I tried both Jun 24 21:21:00 What's odd is now there's *no* mail.jar in /usr/lib/luna/java, but mail services seem to be working fine :-) Jun 24 21:21:20 until you restart luna. :-) Jun 24 21:22:47 how is it that git will not download, but python downloaded, wget downloaded, sgit downloaded, etc etc etc. Jun 24 21:22:59 but I get an md5sum error on git. Jun 24 21:23:16 seems _wrong_ Jun 24 21:23:48 Rick_: can you try manually "wget git_ipk_URL"? Jun 24 21:25:23 yep. Jun 24 21:25:29 root@castle:/opt/bin# md5sum ./git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:25:31 f4629c0568b0228798c4fefdc374a8e8 ./git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:25:34 which is wrong Jun 24 21:25:51 Is pimpmypre in here anywhere? Jun 24 21:26:25 rick, is the filesize correct ? Jun 24 21:26:52 Rick_: which wget? can you try "ipkg-opt install wget-ssl"? Jun 24 21:27:08 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5194963 Jun 4 15:39 git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:27:34 yeah, that's the same size as mine Jun 24 21:27:34 hrm Jun 24 21:27:56 which md5sum? Jun 24 21:28:12 maybe someone can help i am trying to make it so i can add and remove pages in launcher i think i sucessfully rooted my pre but whenever i go to edit a file it brings up in read only Jun 24 21:28:32 yep... wget-ssl installed. Jun 24 21:28:40 jsblair: you have to mount -o remount,rw / Jun 24 21:29:04 we should put a faq on the wiki with that question Jun 24 21:29:09 cphelps: interested in playing around with stgit on the device? Jun 24 21:29:12 "Whenever i try to save files, it says I can't ..." Jun 24 21:29:34 bpadalino|work: we should change the instructions to ssh in as root with ssh keys. Jun 24 21:29:40 rwhitby: what's it do? Jun 24 21:29:51 rwhitby, good idea Jun 24 21:29:54 rwhitby, good idea Jun 24 21:29:56 Rick_: "type md5sum" Jun 24 21:30:10 cphelps: allows you to manage your modifications to the palm files, and import and export them as patches Jun 24 21:30:14 i'm using /opt/bin/md5sum from coreutils ipk Jun 24 21:30:39 rwhitby: is there really anything I can't do with diff -ru ? Jun 24 21:31:10 c2fe0cdd5ba050f2834770b587780d59 -- wrong again. Jun 24 21:31:32 cphelps: yeah, float and sink patches :-) Jun 24 21:31:35 md5sum is a tracked alias for /usr/bin/md5sum Jun 24 21:31:44 and revert to previous versions of the file, ... Jun 24 21:32:16 rwhitby: I think I would rather research it on cygwin and mess around there before putting it on the phone Jun 24 21:32:24 cphelps: sure Jun 24 21:32:36 (btw, yeah, it's all just convenience on top of diff) Jun 24 21:33:15 rwhitby: I can see how people would want to use it Jun 24 21:33:51 rwhitby: but mostly I'm just making an application that will apply my patches to each app on the phone via a button press Jun 24 21:33:57 rwhitby: using PreGame's service Jun 24 21:34:02 so eno -- do you want me to install coreutils? Jun 24 21:34:14 Rick_: "openssl dgst git_1.6*.ipk" Jun 24 21:34:35 cphelps: how will you manage multiple overlapping patches? Jun 24 21:34:47 MD5(git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk)= f4629c0568b0228798c4fefdc374a8e8 Jun 24 21:35:00 cphelps: and what's your workflow for refreshing patches against a new webos version? Jun 24 21:35:12 rwhitby: I'm only using my code changes Jun 24 21:35:42 no plans to export the patches so others can use them? Jun 24 21:35:43 strange that openssl and md5sum does not agree Jun 24 21:36:04 Yay, attachments bug fixed Jun 24 21:36:11 rwhitby: sure, but I wouldn't try to integrate with any other patches Jun 24 21:36:15 jblebrun: which one? Jun 24 21:36:27 Rick_: have you been getting the same incorrect md5sum each time on the same file, or does it keep changing? Jun 24 21:36:27 md5sum git_1.6* Jun 24 21:36:29 f4629c0568b0228798c4fefdc374a8e8 git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:36:31 Rick_: actually it agrees with the previous md5sum, doesn't it? Jun 24 21:36:47 cphelps: If I received attachments that had a Content-ID header specified, they wouldn't show up in the attachments list Jun 24 21:36:51 cphelps: that's what stgit is for - to allow patches from many sources to be used with each other Jun 24 21:37:00 I have gotten two. the f4 and the c2 versions Jun 24 21:37:11 same file, or two different downloads? Jun 24 21:37:23 two different downloads Jun 24 21:37:36 rwhitby: does everyone have to use stgit though, or can you just provide a standard patch that gets used? Jun 24 21:37:45 f4629c0568b0228798c4fefdc374a8e8 git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 21:37:46 c2fe0cdd5ba050f2834770b587780d59 git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk.1 Jun 24 21:37:56 cphelps: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/trees/master/applauncher Jun 24 21:38:09 looks like the download is not reliable Jun 24 21:38:23 eno, that's what I conclude. Jun 24 21:38:38 cphelps: standard patch, can use normal tools to apply, or stgit or quilt to manage the application of multiple standard patches Jun 24 21:38:47 But I've tried a couple of dozen tims and never gotten a match to YOUR md5 Jun 24 21:38:49 (including refresh on webos OTA updates) Jun 24 21:39:13 rwhitby: so what do I need to do to make it happen? I am ready to provide a patch for the browser app for downloading Jun 24 21:40:51 cphelps: the workflow I have been trialling is to install stgit on the Pre, then git init in /, then stg init in /, then stg new name-of-patch, then modify the files, then stg refresh, then stg export -p to get the patch Jun 24 21:40:57 then commit that patch to our git repo. Jun 24 21:41:26 alternatively, just use diff -u and upload the patch. Jun 24 21:41:48 others can then still use that patch with stgit if they choose Jun 24 21:41:49 Does anybody know where the code for the dock is located on the webOS image? Jun 24 21:41:51 rwhitby: I am more comfortable with #2, but I don't currently have a clean backup Jun 24 21:42:09 cphelps: that's what stgit helps with - you can always revert to the pristine file Jun 24 21:42:16 OMG I can't figure out these stupid scenes Jun 24 21:42:19 eno, what's the url for the non dyoung mirror Jun 24 21:42:29 edektor, i want to say it's in luna - but i am not 100% sure Jun 24 21:42:34 rwhitby: I understand, but it's a little late now :-) Jun 24 21:42:37 eno, i would liek to try downloading from the OTHER mirrow Jun 24 21:42:43 cphelps: nod Jun 24 21:42:48 I have a 1.0.1 from the webosdoctor Jun 24 21:42:50 Yeah ive been looking in there but I cant seem to find it Jun 24 21:43:10 cphelps: BTW, we have a 1.0.3 doctor now Jun 24 21:43:26 rwhitby: point me to it, and you'll have your patch, sir Jun 24 21:43:27 http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions Jun 24 21:43:37 cphelps: ^^ Jun 24 21:43:49 rwhitby IS THAT LINKED OFF THE FRONT PAGE? Jun 24 21:44:04 arrrrggghhh Jun 24 21:44:11 Rick_: absolutely. Jun 24 21:44:14 ok Jun 24 21:44:19 I create pages by creating the link first. Jun 24 21:44:19 it must be -very- new Jun 24 21:44:25 good for you Jun 24 21:44:38 then click on the link to create the page Jun 24 21:45:05 ok, just got the FOURTH md5sum downloading git from the dyoung mirror. Jun 24 21:45:25 four different md5sums. how is this possible? using wgetssl Jun 24 21:45:34 oh! the novacom driver is different ?! Jun 24 21:45:35 i wonder what changed Jun 24 21:45:53 Rick_: something very wrong with the path between your Pre and the internet Jun 24 21:46:01 * rwhitby bbl Jun 24 21:46:31 try just wget Jun 24 21:46:36 Well, duh, except that it's the primary 6 mbps feed for my company, and we use it constantly for all sorts of things. :-/ without errors. Jun 24 21:47:05 Robi- tried wget, tried wgetssl tried ipkg-opt install -- md5 errors. Jun 24 21:47:29 wow Jun 24 21:47:35 curl? ;] Jun 24 21:47:47 Rick_: someone in the air is against you using git Jun 24 21:47:58 you going over wifi or evdo ? Jun 24 21:48:02 Rick_ any chance you're out of space? Jun 24 21:48:07 duh u just said.. wifi Jun 24 21:48:50 switch the fs where you're downloading to Jun 24 21:51:13 * Robi- waits for that aha moment Jun 24 21:51:14 hey Jun 24 21:51:22 i've got ssh working Jun 24 21:51:29 anybody got sshfs to work? Jun 24 21:51:41 i'm getting the connection dropped after login Jun 24 21:51:47 "remote host has disconnected" Jun 24 21:51:55 which sshd? Jun 24 21:52:00 dropbear Jun 24 21:52:19 i dont believe it'll do sshfs Jun 24 21:52:27 it has to support sftp, yes? Jun 24 21:52:39 yeah - that's what i figured Jun 24 21:52:44 wasn't sure of the limitations of dropbear Jun 24 21:52:57 it's very 'light' Jun 24 21:53:12 check the wiki Jun 24 21:53:43 if you install openssl you should be able to get it going but openssl uses 2x the RAM or so Jun 24 21:53:58 er openssH Jun 24 21:54:09 yeah - i don't really want that Jun 24 21:54:14 ok - thansk Jun 24 21:56:40 i'm going to try to use just the sftp server from openssh Jun 24 21:56:42 awesome.. xulryan updated the tracking wiki for gmaps url mapping including direction and speed Jun 24 21:57:28 beelzabub: unless someone packaged sshfs separately like sftp.. Jun 24 21:57:55 search the ipkg db Jun 24 21:58:42 enu rwhitby df Jun 24 21:58:43 Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on Jun 24 21:58:45 rootfs 452296 378528 73768 84% / Jun 24 21:59:13 eno I mean Jun 24 21:59:57 downloaded it to my desktop. and by golly md5 checks. Jun 24 22:00:52 weird Jun 24 22:01:19 WOOT JACKPOT Jun 24 22:01:27 downloading to /media/internal Jun 24 22:01:30 I converted the sounds and alerts config screen hack into a stand alone app Jun 24 22:01:56 md5sum git* Jun 24 22:01:58 b13b5c2ba4d1dc877e945b9d87c5b930 git_1.6.3.2-1_arm.ipk Jun 24 22:02:02 checksum number seven\ Jun 24 22:02:18 and there's 7 gig free in /media/internal Jun 24 22:03:42 so it sounds like write corruption? can't be the bits on the wire (wireless) because of TCP and especially TCP + SSL Jun 24 22:04:17 in this case it's just TCP Jun 24 22:04:33 he tried downloading it with wgetssl too I think Jun 24 22:04:38 same issue, yes? Jun 24 22:04:50 wget-ssl is just a version of wget that support SSL Jun 24 22:06:16 anyone know where the motionapps classic file is to purge for a hosed install? i rm'd everything from the /media/internal and /var/usr/palm/apps/com.motion* folders but it sitll shows that one app i installed and refuses to show the ROM updater :( Jun 24 22:06:19 I'd try a hexdump on each and diff the two to try to figure out what's happening to the files Jun 24 22:07:22 ok. Downloaded git to my desktop. Jun 24 22:07:25 maybe you have a man in the middle trying to poison you with a malicious ipk ;) (ok, not bloody likely) Jun 24 22:07:33 ftp'ed it from my desktop to /media/internal Jun 24 22:07:39 checksum now checks. Jun 24 22:07:55 (over the same freaking wifi connection that wget used.) Jun 24 22:08:10 so, the last few days I've been trying to get uvccapture to cross compile Jun 24 22:08:10 I don't understand it.... but I can install it now. Jun 24 22:08:18 that suggest some rather troubling instability on the phone Jun 24 22:08:21 finally got it compiled and an .ipk made Jun 24 22:08:30 root@castle:/media/internal# /opt/bin/uvccapture Jun 24 22:08:30 Unable to set format: 22. Jun 24 22:08:30 Init v4L2 failed !! exit fatal Jun 24 22:08:33 doh Jun 24 22:08:33 is it just ipkg-opt install /media/internal/git...... ?? Jun 24 22:08:36 hemna|work: that's great Jun 24 22:08:41 n/m hard reset actually took that time Jun 24 22:08:57 for those of you with root access you can install http://www.carrytheone.org/webOS the tarball linked there ONLY getit if you know what you are doing for now. until I package it up as an ipkg file it's just a tar of the folder. Jun 24 22:09:11 ah, init v4l2 failed Jun 24 22:09:11 Rick_: yeah, that should do it Jun 24 22:09:11 :( Jun 24 22:09:11 It creates an app that allows for changing of the notification sound Jun 24 22:09:48 When I get home from work I'll post it all on the wiki and would love some other people to help me expand it and clean it up. Jun 24 22:09:50 hemna|work: maybe look at what's required to init v4l2? Jun 24 22:09:57 kernel support? Jun 24 22:10:06 yah I'm going inside uvccapture.c now Jun 24 22:10:15 /dev/video0 is there Jun 24 22:10:20 so I assume it's v4l Jun 24 22:10:22 or v4l2 Jun 24 22:10:27 I thought the kernel we had supports v4l but not v4l2 Jun 24 22:11:13 but check the logs, someone else was talking about that Jun 24 22:11:22 ok. that ran, and it downloaded libcurl, diffutils, and rcs all of which downloaded and installed. Jun 24 22:12:07 Rick_: those installed where git failed? stranger still Jun 24 22:12:12 ret = ioctl (vd->fd, VIDIOC_S_FMT, &vd->fmt); Jun 24 22:12:14 that's the fail Jun 24 22:12:20 python installed. sgitinstalled Jun 24 22:12:24 only git failed. Jun 24 22:12:36 I've installed a BUNCH of stuff. Jun 24 22:12:51 only git failed. Python as downloaded was 11 meg. TWICE the size of git. Jun 24 22:13:10 makes no sense Jun 24 22:13:36 someone set up us the git. all your source are belong to us. Jun 24 22:13:40 lol Jun 24 22:15:22 what is the size of the camera images? Jun 24 22:15:24 might be a dumb question but is there an easy way to use the .patch file I tried the patch command but i guess i am not using it right or something Jun 24 22:16:14 jsblair: patch -p1 < whatever.patch Jun 24 22:16:29 oops forgot the < Jun 24 22:16:30 adjust p1 to the right number Jun 24 22:24:03 bbiab -- on my way home Jun 24 22:32:48 dang, can't get passed that format init Jun 24 22:34:16 beelzabub: openssh-sftp-server is designed to work with dropbear too Jun 24 22:38:18 * rwhitby waits for Kaerey to return to offer him gitorious write access Jun 24 22:46:24 rwhitby: still working on my patch for Downloads in the browser. I am thinking about adding a dialog to the streaming path as well so people can download mp3s and stuff for ringtones. Jun 24 22:46:42 nice Jun 24 22:47:21 rwhitby: I'd have done it already, but I got sidetracked writing an app to use PreGame's command runner to enable the seekrit "T" feature Jun 24 22:48:11 rwhitby: I creates a gitorious account Jun 24 22:48:16 erm created Jun 24 22:48:17 telepathy, cool. I like telepathic phones Jun 24 22:48:20 I can not type today Jun 24 22:49:10 mdklein: you want to handle the downloader patch? Jun 24 22:49:15 mdklein: added Jun 24 22:49:16 sure Jun 24 22:49:33 the idea is that the subdir under modifications is the name of the palm app being modified Jun 24 22:49:47 (without the com.palm... prefix) Jun 24 22:51:21 is there a low chance of duplicates so that is not a concern? (removing prefix) Jun 24 22:55:28 did kaerey get his script working? Jun 24 22:58:45 man I'd like to see the driver for the camera Jun 24 22:58:46 nemix: since the modifications repo is only for modifications to Palm apps (we have a separate repo for applications we create ourselves, and we use the full app id to name those), then there won't be duplicates Jun 24 22:58:53 I can't get it to accept the format ioctl Jun 24 23:01:18 ok, I generated a unified diff Jun 24 23:03:59 Sheesh. I go out of town for a long weekend and you all get homebrew apps working?!!?! /heart Jun 24 23:05:33 wb xandrake Jun 24 23:05:50 ty rwhitby Jun 24 23:06:20 So...I know I should read through all 7432980 pages of that thread -- but I'm going to ask anywho. Jun 24 23:06:40 How do I get past the silly new card creation when I click on the emailed link? Jun 24 23:06:59 It just keeps making new one after new one. Jun 24 23:07:16 I fixed that Jun 24 23:07:19 I think Jun 24 23:07:27 if it's loopin new browser cards Jun 24 23:08:21 @mdklein What do you mean? For example, I tried to install the flashlight app from emailing the link from forums to myself -- no joy. Jun 24 23:08:54 k, I dunno anything about the way the email installation vector works, but I fixed an endless loop bug in the browser app Jun 24 23:09:36 the fix is included in the diff I'm about to post, but if you feel comfortable editing files, it's listed in the wiki under Bugs Jun 24 23:09:48 I dunno if it'll help your problem or not Jun 24 23:09:53 IOk. Jun 24 23:10:04 Yea, I'm a *nix nerd. Jun 24 23:10:30 I'll look for it then. Jun 24 23:13:38 Anyone removed the sprint portal? Jun 24 23:13:42 damn it. I can't find the email with my password for the pre dev wiki....trying to log in. Jun 24 23:14:04 mount -o remount,ro / Jun 24 23:14:07 oops Jun 24 23:15:22 xandrqake. The flashlight app as posted was a ZIP file. Jun 24 23:15:24 lol Jun 24 23:15:32 correct. Jun 24 23:15:34 the emailed downloads have to be ipk files Jun 24 23:15:39 oh, fml Jun 24 23:15:45 PreGame is working on an ipk of flashlight Jun 24 23:15:47 it's a rooted vs non-rooted thing Jun 24 23:15:51 even as we speak Jun 24 23:15:54 reading > xandrake Jun 24 23:16:07 no no, it's not a root vs non-root thing. Jun 24 23:16:27 it's that his package _as it was packaged_ was not self-installing. It didn't have scripts. Jun 24 23:16:47 but that's being worked on _right now_ Jun 24 23:16:56 Gota keep my underscore running. :) Ok. I'll look forward to learning how to really develop on this platform. I'm still a huge rookie to all of this. Jun 24 23:16:59 review the page on the wiki about self-installing apps. Jun 24 23:17:40 I write bash scripts all day at work and used to write html in notepad 14 years ago, so how hard can this be -- right? :D Jun 24 23:18:45 actually, pretty easy Jun 24 23:20:56 Ok. I'm here, but I'm not going to be doing a lot of tech support tonight. Jun 24 23:21:14 I'll take your shift, Rick. Jun 24 23:21:22 op me ;) Jun 24 23:21:47 uh, here's how _that_ works xandrake. 24 hours after you take the shift, rwhitby may approach you. Jun 24 23:22:04 word Jun 24 23:22:15 It took me about 30 hours in here.... and a complete refactor of the rooting pages on the wiki. :-) Jun 24 23:22:30 I helped as much as I could with the filesystem and other *nix things. I'm not much an app dev just yet. Jun 24 23:22:54 _most_ of the people coming here for support can't seem to follow the instructions in the wiki. If you're a *nix guy, youll be better off than me at that. Jun 24 23:23:01 Yea, I think he asked me to write some pages, but I had a work trip. :-\ Jun 24 23:23:33 I helped some of the guys get SFTP running. Jun 24 23:24:04 Me, I'm going to be working on my "using PreGame's command runner service to create a command-line mojo app to run commands." It doesn't get a full term. I'm not that good, but it'll be an app that can let you type wgets and ls's and etc and run stuff _from mojo_ :-) Jun 24 23:25:06 I'm thinking with some new packages and improving some existing ones, we can make things way easier for the new folks. the only downside, is it also eliminates the requirements for the learning that they have to go through to get the harder methods working. I have mixed feelings Jun 24 23:25:30 ohh, nice Rick_ Let me know if I can help. Jun 24 23:25:43 heehehehe the classic "should there be a barrier" discussion. Jun 24 23:25:46 I think generally easier is better and those who want to learn, can Jun 24 23:26:06 ideally, there won't be a learning curve evenutally. ie iphone, jailbreak and cydia. Jun 24 23:26:07 If you want, I can copy you on 20 years of emails about discontinuing the morse code requirement for a ham license..... Jun 24 23:26:08 I think learning all of the stuff that we've been pondering since day one is very advantageous for everyone to know. Jun 24 23:26:20 xandrake_: looking forward to your contributions ... Jun 24 23:26:22 LOL Jun 24 23:26:38 until then, i think of it like a test, if you can follow the rooting and optware wiki pages, wait until it is easier Jun 24 23:26:40 PullingJ__: yeah, that's true Jun 24 23:26:47 Aye, I'll contribute what I can. Jun 24 23:26:48 what are is that user going to do once their pre is "rooted" Jun 24 23:26:52 plus the other thing, if they don't HAVE to use the shell, why should they? Jun 24 23:26:56 beg us to walk them through one hack or another Jun 24 23:27:05 or let me put that a different way.... people working with computers today do NOT learn edlin, and batch file scripting in dos. :-) Jun 24 23:27:17 pity that Jun 24 23:27:23 haha ^_^ Jun 24 23:27:54 remember that the only thing that "rooting" does is open up the port so that you can log in as root. There's no change to the underlying operating system. Jun 24 23:27:56 I've tried to make sure that I taught everyone that I helped what the commands they were typing were doing Jun 24 23:27:59 the linux was always there. Jun 24 23:28:19 Rick__: true, it's not like the iphone in that we have to break out of anything Jun 24 23:28:21 if you don't have to have ssh to load apps, and to load optware and stuff, that's not nessesarily bad. Jun 24 23:28:24 Rick__: just open up access Jun 24 23:28:32 well, you've successfully played with /etc/passwd Jun 24 23:28:58 and in order to do anything fun you need new optware packages Jun 24 23:29:00 the way I see it, we need robust low-level mechanism and interchange formats, and then we build scripts and guis and wizards on top of that Jun 24 23:29:12 I'm with him ^^ Jun 24 23:29:15 sounds like a very unix way of doing things Jun 24 23:29:17 rwhitby: for this gitorious thing, should I just be putting up a unified diff in a directory, or is there something else special I need to do? Jun 24 23:29:28 http://www.thenakedowls.com/snap.jpg Jun 24 23:29:31 closer! Jun 24 23:29:38 mdklein: just a unified diff, have a look at the one that's there. Jun 24 23:29:42 PullingJ__ I understand the sentiment... But I know from 25 years of training my end users, that not everyone _can_ understand what's going on. Some people substitute neatness for intelligence. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be empowered to do spiffy things. Jun 24 23:29:51 the jailbreak programs do similiar things. break out, and install a bunch of "essential" packages. Jun 24 23:30:07 Rick_, I know what you mean Jun 24 23:30:08 took that picture from a command line app I'm trying to get working on the Pre Jun 24 23:30:25 green scan lines = secks Jun 24 23:30:27 I just don't see what the person who can't follow the optware install is going to do once rooted at this point Jun 24 23:30:45 right. 'at this point' is the operative clause Jun 24 23:30:47 rwhitby: I think we could add a service to install packages and then toss a mojo GUI on top of that, but there are some security issues behind that. Jun 24 23:31:08 The person who will root and optware upgrade is either a huge nerd and will have something to offer or a ballsy rookie. Jun 24 23:31:09 rwhitby: but can;t we just make an application for applying the patches? Jun 24 23:31:13 destinal_work: absolutely. and the service works on the fundamental ipkg-opt framework we've put in place Jun 24 23:31:20 rwhitby: shit, we can pull them right from the git site Jun 24 23:31:20 it seems we're getting closer to the point where the pre homebrew is ready for the novice user Jun 24 23:31:33 maybe not novice, but less than geek Jun 24 23:31:35 cphelps: yep, we can - but it should get the patches directly from the git repo, rather than copying them into the application binary. Jun 24 23:32:28 rwhitby: I'm starting to understand the idea. I would be happy to write the app for it when the time comes Jun 24 23:32:31 the main reason we use patches and not a standalone replacement is copyright, yes? Jun 24 23:32:51 since we're enhancing palms apps by adding some code to them but we can avoid redistributing palm's code Jun 24 23:32:57 yep Jun 24 23:33:04 downloading streaming files is working now Jun 24 23:33:12 you can't distribute modified palm files Jun 24 23:33:26 but we're assuming that Palm is ok with distributing context diffs which include our code Jun 24 23:33:52 as they are only useful to enhance the value of the existing software? Jun 24 23:33:56 why not make the patches ipkgs with a patch binary and a install and remove scripts to apply or back out the patch? Jun 24 23:34:15 cphelps: I'm currently all about getting the basic functionality, repositories, workflows for developers and services in place, so that others can write the guis on top. Jun 24 23:34:15 and context diffs seem to fall under fair use from the little searching I did the other day Jun 24 23:34:37 I notice busybox on the pre has diff but apparently not patch Jun 24 23:34:40 destinal_work: that's exactly why I'm working on stgit, cause it's the underlying mechanism to do just that reliably Jun 24 23:34:52 stgit? Jun 24 23:35:04 yep. ported it to optware last night. Jun 24 23:35:05 package manager Jun 24 23:35:07 python, though? Jun 24 23:35:09 kind of heavy Jun 24 23:35:19 mt Jun 24 23:35:31 rwhitby: yes, but what is it? Jun 24 23:35:40 then again we have the space and even on evdo we have fast net access Jun 24 23:35:43 destinal_work: haven't found anything lighter which can handle pushing and popping overlapping patches in any order Jun 24 23:35:43 rwhitby: when you feel like there is something ready, just let me know. It makes sense to me to make a .patch mime handler from the browser Jun 24 23:35:46 I just tend to think KISS Jun 24 23:35:51 ah Jun 24 23:35:53 rwhitby: but maybe it should be something else. Jun 24 23:36:03 http://www.procode.org/stgit/ Jun 24 23:36:27 sure, if someone can define a workflow with straight diff and patch which meets the requirements I'm all ears. Jun 24 23:36:42 rwhitby: I don't know push / popping patches and how that solves the overlap problem Jun 24 23:36:45 I guess I should RTFM Jun 24 23:37:01 cphelps: that would be interesting, I guess it would have to have the path embedded in the diffs Jun 24 23:37:37 tmzt: have a look at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/trees/master/applauncher Jun 24 23:37:38 tmzt: unknown. we'll have to see how it shakes out Jun 24 23:37:49 it seems to me it would still be possible to break stuff with patches that don't anticipate each other Jun 24 23:37:51 that is a patch I created using stgit. Jun 24 23:38:10 destinal_work: yes, but stgit allows you to cleanly back out and alert the user Jun 24 23:38:15 actually I'm not working with modifications to webos source code Jun 24 23:38:33 tools for other people to do it, ok Jun 24 23:38:36 and cleanly back out all patches before an OTA update, and then apply them all back again afterwards Jun 24 23:38:45 shoot, I screwed up that patch Jun 24 23:38:53 That's pretty slick Rwhitby Jun 24 23:38:54 and you can wrap guis around all that. Jun 24 23:39:21 if you can't get it right on the command line first, you can't get the gui app right either. Jun 24 23:39:24 kinda like git rebase Jun 24 23:40:06 ok gents -- time to cut the grass...it's grown a lot in the 5 days I've been out of town. Jun 24 23:40:06 http://www.procode.org/stgit/doc/tutorial.html Jun 24 23:40:11 * xandrake_ will brb. Jun 24 23:40:20 rwhitby: ok, you're right, this is a pretty slick approach Jun 24 23:40:57 destinal_work: it works for the Linux kernel, so it must be able to work in this case. Jun 24 23:41:13 but there may well be a more lightweight solution I can't see yet. Jun 24 23:41:37 that's why I'm hoping for feedback from someone on how the stgit I packaged works on a real Pre. Jun 24 23:41:49 eno and I have tested it on other embedded devices and it seems to work fine. Jun 24 23:41:58 rebase deals with patches packaged in blobs right? Jun 24 23:42:00 (couple of hours testing overnight that is) Jun 24 23:42:08 it looks like it's more for sequential patching rather than parallel though (when the parallel patches modify the same file the whole thing seems to fall down) Jun 24 23:42:09 Hey, just curious guys. Do we all have the same rev. for our processor on our phones? Jun 24 23:42:10 s0urce@castle:/$ cat /proc/cpuinfo Jun 24 23:42:10 Processor : ARMv7 Processor rev 3 (v7l) Jun 24 23:42:26 destinal_work: look at the float and sink commands Jun 24 23:42:41 we may need to have some ordering of patches that overlap Jun 24 23:43:02 sOurce: Yup, i do Jun 24 23:43:26 s0urce: same Jun 24 23:43:32 s0urce: that's the rev that corresponds to the Cortex A8. Jun 24 23:43:37 cool, thanks guys Jun 24 23:43:37 not the silicon rev Jun 24 23:43:41 oh ok Jun 24 23:43:48 had a temporary save file in that patch, included a complete version of palm code :-p removed it quick! Jun 24 23:43:57 fixed version going up soon Jun 24 23:44:19 mdklein: another reason for using stgit to create the patch - it shows you things like that easily. Jun 24 23:46:29 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/master/browser/enable-browser-downloads.patch Jun 24 23:46:56 mdklein: ah, you're paths are not from / ? Jun 24 23:47:17 :-/ naw, I can easily replace if needed Jun 24 23:47:18 so you need to be in the right directory to apply it Jun 24 23:47:36 mdklein: I was using stgit at /, so that happens automagically Jun 24 23:48:17 I also need to update my patch so it says what version of webOS it has been tested against ... Jun 24 23:48:45 if you want to repackage the patch go ahead, I'm not familiar with stgit,will have to look Jun 24 23:49:45 mdklein: ok, will do. that will be a good test of the workflow - one developer updating/fixing another developer's patch Jun 24 23:50:21 mdklein: I put the stream/download option dialog at the end of the wiki page that one can be another optional patch over the top of the other one Jun 24 23:51:13 rwhitby: this still tends to lend itself to maintaining "a project", ie there were one webos-internals version of alarm clock, or whatever. I mean, yeah, you can easily manipulate it once you have it, but I don't see where it lends itself well to, I make an optional feature and so do you that alter the same file, and how do we allow you to choose one or the other or both Jun 24 23:51:19 maybe I'm missing something Jun 24 23:51:36 it seems like you'd want two branches Jun 24 23:51:56 two different patches Jun 24 23:52:17 either they both apply independent of order, or not. Jun 24 23:52:53 I guess I'd have to see the workflow in practice Jun 24 23:53:07 it'd be nice to have an app that pulled down patches and patched for users... Jun 24 23:53:15 if you're going to allow multiple independent modifications to the same file (like Linux kernel developers do), then you need a technology that can handle that (like kernel developers use stgit) Jun 24 23:53:30 mdklein: that's exactly the thing I'm building this infrastructure for Jun 24 23:53:47 I should have probably seperated out the loop bug patch and the download patch... but I can't really see a case where users wouldn't want the download functionality Jun 24 23:53:59 that app needs to have a robust underlying methodology for applying and removing patches that come from multiple sources and overlap on the same file Jun 24 23:54:40 if we can't define that methodology using command-line tools first, then there is no way a gui app is going to get it right Jun 24 23:55:56 destinal_work: I think there needs to be some community review and merging of different versions of the same modification, but that process also has to allow for independent options when agreement can't be reached or they really are different modifications Jun 24 23:55:56 I have a few questions for the fellow gurus Jun 24 23:57:29 intent to submit queries understood. fire away (though I won't claim to be a guru) Jun 24 23:58:10 i echoed a broken line into my /opt/etc/sudoers file and can't remove it Jun 24 23:58:31 moted: log back in as root using telnet or novaproxy, and fix it. Jun 24 23:58:36 when putty'd into the pre over nova proxy vi and/or vim is almost not usable Jun 24 23:58:44 su - ? Jun 24 23:58:56 moted: use 'echo "..." > file' Jun 24 23:59:16 right Jun 24 23:59:20 the problem is the broken line Jun 24 23:59:23 it breaks sudo Jun 24 23:59:33 you'll have to rewrite the entire file , sans the brokne line Jun 24 23:59:36 yep, as I said you need to go back to scratch and log in as root again Jun 24 23:59:40 haha Jun 24 23:59:41 fun Jun 24 23:59:42 novaterm is autoroot Jun 24 23:59:56 I suggest using visudo as it will perform sanity checking Jun 24 23:59:59 moted: that's why visudo was invented :-) Jun 25 00:00:08 yeah.. i can fix it that way, i was just hoping i would have to echo the entire file from scratch Jun 25 00:00:25 if you're in as root, you can edit it directly Jun 25 00:00:47 yeah, but arrows keys with putty and editing in vi != working Jun 25 00:00:57 :) Jun 25 00:00:58 use hjkl Jun 25 00:01:16 moted: the other thing you could do is cp /etc/sudoers /tmp/badsudoers and then grep -v badstuff /tmp/badsudoers > /etc/sudoers Jun 25 00:01:24 moted: sed -i '/broken_line/d' /opt/etc/sudoers Jun 25 00:01:40 or sed even better. :) Jun 25 00:01:49 cut sed cut Jun 25 00:01:51 perl -pie ... Jun 25 00:02:07 python -die :P Jun 25 00:02:13 /opt/bin/ssam Jun 25 00:02:28 /opt/bin/emacs22 Jun 25 00:02:28 I was trying to keep it simple but eno's sed line isn't that nasty. Jun 25 00:02:42 emacs22 sure is big gun Jun 25 00:03:00 too big Jun 25 00:03:10 the problem with the sed line is that it would remove good stuff, and ALL=(ALL) is in the bad line Jun 25 00:03:37 moted: you could have retyped it from scratch during this discussion :-) Jun 25 00:03:45 you just need to define the broken_line regex to be unique Jun 25 00:03:49 :) Jun 25 00:05:23 yeah Jun 25 00:05:50 you can remove more than you need, then add back what you needed to stay w/o the bad stuff Jun 25 00:06:16 next time you edit, remember cp /etc/sudoers /etc/sudoers.old.1 first. :) Jun 25 00:06:49 backups rule Jun 25 00:07:25 cocky confidence is more exciting! Jun 25 00:08:10 lmao Jun 25 00:08:14 yeah yeah :) its all fixed Jun 25 00:08:25 thanks lads Jun 25 00:08:52 cool Jun 25 00:20:47 ls . Jun 25 00:38:21 ls -lHra Jun 25 00:39:13 EvanDotPro: do you have a good git tutorial for Kaerey to upload his notifications app to gitorious? Jun 25 00:52:42 rwhitby: i just talked to him via PM... i don't personally have a link to a git tut, but they're alllll over. i told him to get some basics of git down first, then i can help him with gitorious... he was scared when he got a CLI window from msysgit, lol. Jun 25 00:53:58 i get scared too .. the git bundle for textmate makes my life easier Jun 25 00:55:53 git is pretty scary the first time you see it Jun 25 00:56:04 I'm not past the quivering stage myself ... Jun 25 01:01:07 bash-completion helps a little bit Jun 25 01:01:44 bin/sh anything is great Jun 25 01:08:11 rwhitby: but once you get the hang of it, it's just so amazing, you never want to develop without it. Jun 25 01:31:04 Ok I added an app to gitorious if someone knows how to package correctly I could use some help. Jun 25 01:32:51 Kaerey: did you get the app to work? Jun 25 01:33:18 yeah Jun 25 01:33:22 what was the problem ? Jun 25 01:33:41 I couldn't get the stages set right wasn't using consistant names Jun 25 01:34:16 ah Jun 25 01:34:20 inconsistent names Jun 25 01:39:53 to get stages to work correctly you need to use the right name in basically everything. Jun 25 01:40:15 sounds about right Jun 25 01:42:04 has anyone worked out who to use Palm scenes instead of replicating built-in functionality? Jun 25 01:42:17 (e.g. for a ringtone selection scene) Jun 25 01:44:04 I found a piece from the rough cuts that teaches how to call apps, but not specific scenes Jun 25 01:44:29 i have a feeling that is part of the SDK documentation Jun 25 01:44:31 wasn't that touted as one of the advantages of webOS that you could do things like re-use the ringtone selector from a different application in your application? Jun 25 01:44:43 bpadalino: I've been following your work on precomd Jun 25 01:44:49 mrvc, oh yeah ? Jun 25 01:44:55 yep -- very nice Jun 25 01:45:00 i have to admit - it's pretty terrible right now :( Jun 25 01:45:06 I've been trying to get to the point where I can help some Jun 25 01:45:08 it can identify the pre and that's about it Jun 25 01:45:26 oh, more help would be great Jun 25 01:45:35 do you have any questions about novacom(d) ? Jun 25 01:45:47 I'm making a parser for the utl files Jun 25 01:45:51 sup Robi- Jun 25 01:46:00 imah be on around midnight Jun 25 01:46:03 talk then Jun 25 01:46:12 hello all. Jun 25 01:46:24 NxlKing2304 howd it go Jun 25 01:46:25 mrvc, yeah i am so sorry about that - i wish i could store them in XML .. Jun 25 01:46:28 can crond run while the pre is in standby/sleep? folowed the "tracking" article but it only runs the script if the screen is on Jun 25 01:46:29 u get everything str8 Jun 25 01:46:32 the HTML there may be easier to parse ? Jun 25 01:46:43 no, I'm past that Jun 25 01:46:46 oh ok Jun 25 01:46:51 I can get the packet information out fin Jun 25 01:46:52 fine Jun 25 01:46:57 I'm decoding the usbl packets Jun 25 01:46:59 i've been reading up on SFTP...but i'm a little stuck.....sorry for being a pain. I modified the visudo file, and ran WINSCP but i get, "Connection has been unexpectedly closed. Server sent command exit status 1" Jun 25 01:47:00 ah cool Jun 25 01:47:01 !! Jun 25 01:47:02 trying to decode pmux now Jun 25 01:47:03 any ideas?? Jun 25 01:47:16 mrvc, did you read the protocol description in there ? Jun 25 01:47:21 yep! big help Jun 25 01:47:25 ah good Jun 25 01:47:33 do the structures and casting make sense ? Jun 25 01:47:52 yep -- very familiar Jun 25 01:48:08 I'm doing the utl parser in python though since I can work a little faster that way Jun 25 01:48:32 ah, that would probably be helpful to have for the future as well Jun 25 01:48:48 I would be glad to contribute whatever I have Jun 25 01:48:53 sounds good Jun 25 01:49:05 it is very rough right now Jun 25 01:49:05 NxlKing2304 get fireftp for firefox Jun 25 01:49:07 later Jun 25 01:49:17 ok i'll try that, thanks Jun 25 01:49:23 anyway, just thought you might want to know Jun 25 01:49:54 you seem to be the only one taking some initiative on rooting with linux Jun 25 01:50:17 hopefully I will be able to help Jun 25 01:50:25 i wish i had more ambition - unfortunately i use os x so it works well already Jun 25 01:50:36 i just saw a lot of linux people asking about it and i had never worked with usb before Jun 25 01:50:38 so it was fun Jun 25 01:50:48 yep, cool Jun 25 01:51:00 mrvc, feel free to fork on gitorious, make changes and request a merge Jun 25 01:51:20 gaffo and i want to try to make it as compatible with novacomd as possible .. Jun 25 01:51:28 basically an open source version of their tool Jun 25 01:51:35 I'm guessing that if I can parse through the captures and understand what each packet does, I'll be a long ways towards being able to communicate Jun 25 01:51:42 absolutely Jun 25 01:51:58 the precomd.c file can almost open a terminal and execute a command Jun 25 01:52:07 anyone know how to package ipks in vista? Jun 25 01:52:09 i just lose ambition after work :( Jun 25 01:52:17 understood Jun 25 01:52:20 heh Jun 25 01:52:24 I started on this about a week ago Jun 25 01:52:30 it's more fun to work on this at work :) Jun 25 01:52:33 mrvc, excellent Jun 25 01:52:45 trying to finish up the webcam C app Jun 25 01:52:57 hemna, i know - i didn't get anything done at work .. but now i need to be productive at work Jun 25 01:53:10 I didn't do much at work today either Jun 25 01:53:13 do you have any idea why there are duplicate packets? Jun 25 01:53:16 but I was waiting for a code review Jun 25 01:53:24 did anyone ever wonder, pre-what? :) Jun 25 01:53:29 mrvc, yes - for guaranteed delivery of packet .. Jun 25 01:53:39 but I was able to figure out the optware packaging system and get a C app to cross compile and package Jun 25 01:53:40 oh - you mean in the uti file ? Jun 25 01:53:47 yeah Jun 25 01:53:54 i think the way i setup the capture wasn't 100% correct .. Jun 25 01:53:59 it might have been a request to send the urb Jun 25 01:54:02 then the urb going out Jun 25 01:54:05 hemna: which app? Jun 25 01:54:14 v4l2 app Jun 25 01:54:19 to snap pictures from the camera Jun 25 01:54:33 eno: we have a new optware contributor ^^^ Jun 25 01:54:43 I want to get a C app running in the background to snap picts Jun 25 01:54:50 hemna: didn't they open the source for snapping pictures? camd? Jun 25 01:54:51 and then write a WebOS app to control it Jun 25 01:54:51 ok, good Jun 25 01:55:01 camd? Jun 25 01:55:24 err camsrc Jun 25 01:55:34 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.0.1/camsrc-1.0.0.tgz Jun 25 01:55:55 I think it's already a daemon running on the phone that you can just talk to though maybe Jun 25 01:56:47 gah I didn't see that Jun 25 01:57:10 bpadalino: I see some reference to castle-linux vs. castle-bootie mode in your docs -- I have heard the terms, but I don't understand what puts it in one more vs. the other Jun 25 01:57:14 there's a base version and a 300k patch so they must have added to it Jun 25 01:57:37 mrvc, castle is the name of the phone, right? so linux or bootie is just the current operating environment .. Jun 25 01:57:47 bootie is the boot loader Jun 25 01:57:47 bootie is the bootloader ... linux is, obviously, when it's all booted up Jun 25 01:57:55 bootie is able to write memory directly .. Jun 25 01:57:59 and boot images Jun 25 01:58:05 has camsrc been ported into optware yet? Jun 25 01:58:19 hemna, it's running on the phone stock, why optware? Jun 25 01:58:25 oh Jun 25 01:58:39 so ps should show it? Jun 25 01:58:41 bpadalino: so, the protocol changes during the boot process? Jun 25 01:58:54 hemna: maybe, I don't know how it's called as a service Jun 25 01:58:55 no - protocol stays the same.... Jun 25 01:58:55 or the mode rather Jun 25 01:59:02 but the commands change - like put mem:// Jun 25 01:59:02 ok, I don't see it Jun 25 01:59:04 get mem:// Jun 25 01:59:07 boot mem:// Jun 25 02:00:15 so, does it stay in the bootloader for a short period of time, and then if it doesn't get any commands, it starts booting? Jun 25 02:00:32 mrvc, actually - when you "power off" your pre with the usb connected .. Jun 25 02:00:33 theres a /usr/bin/camd Jun 25 02:00:35 bootie gets loaded Jun 25 02:00:42 so I guess I was right about that name :) Jun 25 02:00:46 OR if you hold the volume up key and plug in the usb - bootie loads .. Jun 25 02:01:08 but there's a camd and a camsrc ipkg standard Jun 25 02:01:24 ok, I see Jun 25 02:02:09 camsrc is a library at /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstcamsrc.so Jun 25 02:03:10 castle user.err camd: {camd}: [camd_main.c:517] in camd_main_init() fatal failure detected, expr='0' libc state {errno=2,strerr='No such file or directory'} Jun 25 02:03:11 hrmm Jun 25 02:03:33 camsrc is called "reference platform SW camera gstreamer plugin" Jun 25 02:04:02 camd is "reference platform sw camera 3a daemon" Jun 25 02:04:07 guess I just have to interface w/ that somehow Jun 25 02:05:49 also check out /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.camera which may offer interesting clues about the service Jun 25 02:07:11 handy command: "md5sums -c /md5sums" - tells you what files on the Pre you have edited Jun 25 02:08:15 simplyflipflops: saw your email patch for the ipk, i'm not sure it will help with malicious code. wondering what happens if the ipk isn't given an ipk extension, does luna still try to install it? Jun 25 02:09:05 shaya: oh, in other words is there a content-type it will accept as well? Jun 25 02:09:20 or you think it does 'sniffing' ? Jun 25 02:09:25 destinal: maybe, or luna could just libmagic its filetype Jun 25 02:09:40 right. that's pretty dangerous in general though Jun 25 02:09:46 shaya: wouldn't be easy to magic an ipkg Jun 25 02:09:58 (it's just a targz of targz's) Jun 25 02:10:09 IE has caused all kinds of trouble with sniffing / fingerprinting and trying to adaptively render content regardless of server-returned content-type Jun 25 02:10:22 rwhitby: Jun 25 02:10:23 spotter@dent:~$ file /var/cache/apt/archives/audacity_1.3.7-3_i386.deb Jun 25 02:10:23 /var/cache/apt/archives/audacity_1.3.7-3_i386.deb: Debian binary package (format 2.0) Jun 25 02:10:24 its what lets you make so called gif files with javascript in them Jun 25 02:10:32 ipk's are .debs Jun 25 02:10:41 shaya: you're right. Jun 25 02:10:47 hmm Jun 25 02:11:02 and a malicious server can return a specific content-type for any file Jun 25 02:11:13 basically, someone should just take PreGame's java code and create a package installation service Jun 25 02:11:22 then with a little mojo can wrap it Jun 25 02:11:25 ipkg can take a url Jun 25 02:11:48 so all you have to do is mojo interface a url, mojo passes it to java services that exec's ipkg url Jun 25 02:12:03 then we say palm "tear down this e-mail hole" Jun 25 02:12:08 as we odnt care Jun 25 02:12:23 if you want the hole, you web doctor to 1.0 install our service and then upgrade Jun 25 02:12:33 as now have other way to install packages Jun 25 02:13:31 shaya: it would be best if there's an official install via browser mechanism. the sky won't fall if there is some x509 cert validation and a prompt before install Jun 25 02:13:51 destinal: agreed Jun 25 02:14:34 shaya: we can always work around it but supporting non-palm apps without having to go devmode or modified doctor images is preferable Jun 25 02:14:55 can cron run while the phone is sleeping? Jun 25 02:15:18 destinal: we dont have to modify doctor images Jun 25 02:15:28 worst case, you install web doctor 1.0 as is Jun 25 02:15:31 shaya: because we have devmode Jun 25 02:15:32 install our service Jun 25 02:15:33 upgrade Jun 25 02:15:38 destinal: even without dev mode Jun 25 02:15:46 shaya: oh, I see Jun 25 02:15:49 web doctor will always have the hole Jun 25 02:15:55 shaya: no it doesn't Jun 25 02:15:59 as long as web doctor for 1.00 exists Jun 25 02:16:02 shaya: they replaced the old version from download Jun 25 02:16:05 the email hole will always be recoverable Jun 25 02:16:06 shaya: you can't get it legally Jun 25 02:16:06 ok Jun 25 02:16:10 eh Jun 25 02:16:40 they haven't patched the hole, so how can web doctor be patched not to contain it? Jun 25 02:16:58 I think we should do the install a service by root first, and then package that into a generic "set up for third-party stuff" later Jun 25 02:17:00 I'm just saying 1.00 is gone and 1.02 as well Jun 25 02:17:13 so 1.03 will soon enough Jun 25 02:17:42 grab your jar's now! Jun 25 02:17:51 destinal: I also think we should have a root a pre via ipk Jun 25 02:18:03 i.e. installs dropbear.... and anything else you need Jun 25 02:18:14 would make it easy for people to root their pres Jun 25 02:18:16 shaya: for optware we normally do a bootstrap script Jun 25 02:18:18 shaya: I agree, I had started on that but got distracted with sniffing the patch mechanism Jun 25 02:18:28 that would really just be "Install sshd" - not really root it ... :( Jun 25 02:18:32 wget .../bootstrap.xsh ; sh bootstrap.xsh ; done. Jun 25 02:18:51 the lack of access to a Pre has delayed that activity so far Jun 25 02:19:04 install sshd and add an account and sudo or install sshd and add ssh as root and change the root password -- along with iptables, that'll do it Jun 25 02:19:04 I don't have a pre either Jun 25 02:19:15 though have an idea of how I can get one on my plan :) Jun 25 02:19:38 rumor has it that an old plan + the sprint pro pack addon enables the pre to activate Jun 25 02:20:35 the boostrap script would need to ask the user for the 'preuser' username and password (since you don't want everyone to have the same username) Jun 25 02:21:19 rwhitby: I'm personally down with just giving root. we had the discussion and for most people getting in there's nothing they want to do on their phone that doesn't take root. Jun 25 02:21:42 the phone itself basically runs as root! Jun 25 02:21:47 it does, yeah Jun 25 02:22:41 if there's no non-root userland activities to do generally, there's no point in non-root userland. people will just be su or sudo immediately anyway Jun 25 02:23:00 anyone know what sudo: parse error in /opt/etc/sudoers near line 32 means? I tried all the steps several times and i'm stuck now =x Jun 25 02:23:01 those of us who do a lot more on our phone have a reason for privilege seperation, but we're the exception Jun 25 02:23:16 rwhitby: case in point re parse error in sudoers Jun 25 02:23:27 trixx, it means the sudoers file is not valid Jun 25 02:23:27 destinal: if we think we can teach people to use ssh keys, then I'm up for it. we can't have root with a password. Jun 25 02:23:37 i also started on the package, but couldnt get preinst or postinst to work Jun 25 02:24:07 tharris: interesting. nicoya in #webos hinted that the palm package installer strips those out ... Jun 25 02:24:08 bpadalino, you think reinstalling sudo might work? Jun 25 02:24:11 rwhitby: you're worried that people will set weak passwords and get broken into over wifi? Jun 25 02:24:16 yep Jun 25 02:24:18 and i been busy with other stuff too Jun 25 02:24:24 trixx, no - making sure the sudoers file is correct should fix the problem Jun 25 02:24:25 or no password and be wide open Jun 25 02:24:54 but how is a user account with sudo any better? Jun 25 02:25:01 people are gonna have cached online banking info on their pre Jun 25 02:25:02 it's the same thing Jun 25 02:25:07 you gotta guess their username too Jun 25 02:25:07 well my plan was root, add ssh, start ssh, run telnet (once) add user account and let them add a passwrd Jun 25 02:25:13 so make people set their root username Jun 25 02:25:22 make a new uid0 Jun 25 02:25:28 ok anyone who's interested... sound is possible with chrooted apps Jun 25 02:25:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcWk2CrDHWA Jun 25 02:25:31 bpadalino, thanks man Jun 25 02:25:35 no problem Jun 25 02:25:50 destinal: we tried that. nebula said it used to break things on RHEL, so we got scared off. Jun 25 02:25:56 hmm Jun 25 02:26:03 hadn't heard that Jun 25 02:26:22 I've done on a small / embedded system and never had trouble, never tried with RH Jun 25 02:26:58 destinal: I do it on a qnap NAS box, with no problems either. Jun 25 02:27:34 trouble is then you need to say to people "log in as that user that you used when you first installed this stuff - remember that name?" instead of just "log in as root with your ssh key" Jun 25 02:27:50 when connected to a wifi, the phone tries to route internet traffic through that, right? Jun 25 02:28:34 rwhitby: I agree in principle, but I doubt that we'll get much traction among the average target user Jun 25 02:28:44 you have the same thing with user id though Jun 25 02:28:46 and sudo Jun 25 02:28:55 you have to remember your login name Jun 25 02:29:46 I don't really think sudo's very practical for most doing this. I know for most other phones that have this they have a default username. they generally have ssh off until they need it though Jun 25 02:29:51 so camd seems to get started automatically when you run the camera app Jun 25 02:30:52 thinking of iphone jailbreak specifically Jun 25 02:31:27 something else creates /dev/shm/sem.camd Jun 25 02:31:40 sudo is safest though Jun 25 02:31:44 two layers Jun 25 02:31:54 destinal: it is a dilemma Jun 25 02:31:57 unless that semaphore is there, camd bails Jun 25 02:32:19 tharris: privilege seperation is good if you have things you intend to do as a user Jun 25 02:32:20 anyone notice u cant add a url with https to the contacts list? Jun 25 02:32:36 the phone overidies it with http in front of it Jun 25 02:32:45 tharris: most people don't so they're jumping right into root / sudo immediately anyway Jun 25 02:33:12 on a linux workstation or server there's lots of nonroot stuff to do, you should rarely be in a root shell Jun 25 02:33:27 on a phone when you're there, you typically need to be in a root shell or you wouldn't be there Jun 25 02:33:40 then sudo su lol Jun 25 02:33:46 two layers Jun 25 02:33:52 tharris: it adds complexity to no purpose Jun 25 02:34:16 it lets the user make a choice and sort of warning them Jun 25 02:34:21 tharris: the argument rwhitby made was good, that another login name makes it harder to brute force since you won't guess it Jun 25 02:34:29 destinal: agreed on the use cases, but I don't see that as a justification for lessening the security of something that will have my bank account details on it in an unencrypted rootfs by default (mine certainly won't, but others will) Jun 25 02:34:30 but that login may as well be uid0 Jun 25 02:34:58 no offence BF is a non issue, cause if u allow root in ur borked anyway....... Jun 25 02:34:59 where applications have root privs, BTW ... Jun 25 02:35:01 rwhitby: what I'm saying is that the user by putting in a root password is taking on the same responsibility / choice / security as if they typed sudo Jun 25 02:35:02 no difference Jun 25 02:35:23 it doesn't give them a non-root login to use for userland stuff, but nobody needs one Jun 25 02:35:30 dest, it just adds an extra step (saying u sure you want to do this?) kinda stuff Jun 25 02:35:31 there's really just about nothing to do Jun 25 02:35:50 tharris: we can agree to disagree :) Jun 25 02:35:54 lol Jun 25 02:35:56 roger =p Jun 25 02:35:58 sudo usually adds security Jun 25 02:36:04 here it's just adding complexity Jun 25 02:36:04 destinal: agreed. I'm personally a bit uncomfortable with anyone who allows the current setup (sudo) open to wifi or evdo Jun 25 02:36:22 I would prefer it to be ssh keys or no access unless over usb. Jun 25 02:36:36 well i agree with rwhitby Jun 25 02:36:48 usb or bust Jun 25 02:36:51 tbh that is best Jun 25 02:37:07 is there a terminal yet, or are we using the ajax one still? Jun 25 02:37:13 usb/bluetooth imo Jun 25 02:37:44 could always do keys and iptables lol Jun 25 02:37:47 bluetooth with pairing and auth+encrypted transport only Jun 25 02:37:59 ^^ exactly Jun 25 02:38:07 local or bust Jun 25 02:38:34 open wifi and EVDO access scares me Jun 25 02:38:35 rwhitby: ok, but the hard thing is making it easy to use Jun 25 02:39:05 rwhitby: think entry level want to hack their phone people Jun 25 02:39:15 yep, but who says it needs to be easy to set up. the instructions need to be precise and very hard to get wrong however. Jun 25 02:39:36 rwhitby: rooting by ipk can setup usbnet and dropbear configured to only listen on it Jun 25 02:39:55 user can then choose to change configuration if they want Jun 25 02:39:59 that;s their choice Jun 25 02:40:05 I do like the idea of rooting without reliance on a second machine Jun 25 02:40:07 shaya: yeah, the technical mechanism is no problem. it's the policy that's the problem :-) Jun 25 02:40:20 rwhitby: for ssh with password, what about using iptables? Jun 25 02:40:29 thats what i said =p Jun 25 02:40:36 shared keys? Jun 25 02:40:42 can't the app generate them? Jun 25 02:40:45 put in your source IP. yeah it's vulnerable to arp spoofing and really exotic mitm stuff, but it raises the bar Jun 25 02:40:48 have an input for ip address bam Jun 25 02:41:06 makes it easy and adds comleixty Jun 25 02:41:07 xandrake_: the ssh private keys should never be on the Pre, even temporarily. Jun 25 02:41:15 hmm Jun 25 02:41:28 can generate an ssh key on the pre Jun 25 02:41:32 for ssh keys, just upload the key file, thats not too bad Jun 25 02:41:37 and email it to an email addr mojo provides Jun 25 02:41:42 ugh Jun 25 02:41:53 i like the optables idea though Jun 25 02:41:55 emailing ssh private keys? you're joking, right? Jun 25 02:41:56 iptables Jun 25 02:42:00 lol Jun 25 02:42:03 lol Jun 25 02:42:12 rwhitby: its a one time generated key, its deleted Jun 25 02:42:16 are pub-keys out of the picture then? Jun 25 02:42:18 generating them ON the target AND emailing them? ouch Jun 25 02:42:21 I dont think its a major whole Jun 25 02:42:24 hole Jun 25 02:42:29 shaya: it's in email in cleartext. not acceptable. Jun 25 02:42:49 and the attacker would have to have access to the Pre Jun 25 02:42:52 xandrake_: generate your ssh key securely, and upload the public version to the Pre. Jun 25 02:42:56 at the same time Jun 25 02:42:58 yes Jun 25 02:43:12 u cnause putty to generate, upload public key file during install Jun 25 02:43:13 rwhitby: or you can just have a servie that install the public key for you Jun 25 02:43:14 we could put together a java client to do that stuff Jun 25 02:43:21 I like a rock solid security solution Jun 25 02:43:26 Encrypt the key and then email it? ;) Jun 25 02:43:30 non of this is rock solid :) Jun 25 02:43:31 rot13 ? Jun 25 02:43:37 Lurking_Grue: using the root password? ;-) Jun 25 02:43:38 no generate keypair and upload the pubkey to the phone Jun 25 02:43:47 over usb Jun 25 02:43:48 The last thing we need is a gaping security hole to make people scared to support/dev the homebrew Jun 25 02:44:02 lol -- have not heard ROT13 forever Jun 25 02:44:02 las thing we need to do is overcomplicate it too =p Jun 25 02:44:07 uh, homebrew is supported by a graping security hole at hte moment :) Jun 25 02:44:12 hehe Jun 25 02:44:13 lol Jun 25 02:44:15 yeah Jun 25 02:44:18 xandrake, it'll be the last thing they think of! Jun 25 02:44:22 @shaya you're totally correct Jun 25 02:44:24 your ssh private key should be generated on a secure machine that is not connected to the internet, and should be passphrase protected immediately. Jun 25 02:44:41 rwhitboy, in a perfect world yeah Jun 25 02:44:46 there's no such thing as bulletproof security Jun 25 02:44:46 shaya: actually dev mode is very secure Jun 25 02:44:59 oh did I mention never accept certs that the palm alerts on? once accepted once that key works for any hostname. Jun 25 02:45:02 who has machines not connected to the world anymore =p Jun 25 02:45:07 you can't enter it without physical access to the Pre, and a machine to connect to it via usb. Jun 25 02:45:10 (or wifi) Jun 25 02:45:14 except for an machine in a locked room lined with rf insulating material that is not powered on and not connectd to any network Jun 25 02:45:22 I work in IT Security...we have completely secure ;D Jun 25 02:45:32 xandrake_: me too, how funny Jun 25 02:45:43 I would use double rot-13. Jun 25 02:45:44 keys s best, in lieu of keys, iptables is best Jun 25 02:45:46 just need to determine what the threat one wants to protect against Jun 25 02:45:48 as it stands, you cannot root a pre without the person with physical access doing something. Jun 25 02:45:49 lol Jun 25 02:45:54 double rot13 ftw Jun 25 02:45:59 Lurking_Grue: double the encryption power - i like it Jun 25 02:46:03 :) Jun 25 02:46:13 we cannot reduce the security relative to that position Jun 25 02:46:15 rwhitby: who knows. maybe an email can be constructed that will automatically pass the url of ipk to luna :) Jun 25 02:46:18 xandrake_: coming to defcon this year? Jun 25 02:46:38 destinal: I don't have the funds for it this year :( Jun 25 02:46:39 i am =p Jun 25 02:46:46 me too, already booked Jun 25 02:46:51 travel Jun 25 02:47:01 I live in Cincinnati and the flights out there are $300+ Jun 25 02:47:28 at least you aren't in Lexington they would be $100 more :( Jun 25 02:47:35 We do have a lot of security related meetings and forums here locally though Jun 25 02:47:53 nowai -- cincinnati airport is nasty expensive Jun 25 02:48:16 dude, its $100 cheaper than Lexington almost 100% of the time Jun 25 02:48:30 its better for me to drive to Cinci or Lou and park my car than to fly out of Lex Jun 25 02:48:39 I can't honestly say I've ever tried booking a flight out of Lex though. Jun 25 02:49:15 who has a rooted pre and wants to test an app? Jun 25 02:49:19 mvrc: you too good for underscores now? Jun 25 02:49:34 xandrake, delta, $297 round trip non-stop Jun 25 02:50:00 yea ~300 is too much for me ATM. I just bought a ton of toys... Jun 25 02:50:06 It's my fault Jun 25 02:50:20 pre, macbook pro, netbook, car parts > defcon Jun 25 02:50:22 like a pre haha Jun 25 02:50:59 I also thought my company would pay for me to go out there....no joy this year Jun 25 02:51:55 Is there a channel out there for help... Trying to get openssh enabled on pre but denies my connections, i am assuming its a firewall issue on the phone. Followed steps on pre dev wiki Jun 25 02:52:16 yepper crashx. you could do it out of lou for $292 Jun 25 02:52:22 on cattle car airways Jun 25 02:52:41 ventralnet your in the right place. Jun 25 02:53:08 (when it's not the defcon booking channel) Jun 25 02:53:13 hehehehe Jun 25 02:53:25 ventralnet. you're in as root? Jun 25 02:53:31 you got optware installed? Jun 25 02:53:44 and you did ipkg-opt install openssh ? Jun 25 02:54:35 Yea, it looks like openssh actually starts Jun 25 02:54:40 the daemon Jun 25 02:54:50 but then i goto my laptop and try to ssh Jun 25 02:54:54 connection timeout Jun 25 02:55:21 Did the cmd I sent you work out, ventralnet? Jun 25 02:55:51 are you going to the wifi ip or to the evdo ip? and are you going to port 222? Jun 25 02:56:04 wifi and yes on 222 rick Jun 25 02:56:24 wifi yup and 222 Jun 25 02:56:28 can you ping it? Jun 25 02:57:12 no Jun 25 02:57:13 can't ping Jun 25 02:57:22 I wonder if this is something stupid with my cheap wireless router Jun 25 02:57:48 I'd hope not. Jun 25 02:58:01 Let me try to do it from my desktop that is hardwired Jun 25 02:58:04 ok now for the really REALLY stupid question that's bit three people in the last two days. Jun 25 02:58:21 what's the ip address of the pre, and what's the ip address of the pc you're pinging it from? Jun 25 02:58:33 lol @ subnet Jun 25 02:58:52 192.168.0.105 -- laptop Jun 25 02:58:54 ((Rick has to figure out a way to put this into the wiki... "if none of this works, go to this page...: Jun 25 02:58:56 ok Jun 25 02:58:56 192.168.0.104 -- pre Jun 25 02:59:00 darn Jun 25 02:59:01 ssh -p 222 localhost Jun 25 02:59:03 works on the pre Jun 25 02:59:04 not subnet mask. Jun 25 02:59:32 Trying from hard wire computer now Jun 25 02:59:41 thanks for the help by the way guys Jun 25 02:59:55 :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 25 02:59:57 2009