**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 14 02:59:57 2009
Jul 14 03:01:29 <tlz> my boss has his laptop at work sometimes that can connect to the vpn, im gunna see if i can still his info ;)
Jul 14 03:03:43 <PreGame> why not use your exchange server?
Jul 14 03:04:47 <tlz> cause i cant, only salaried employees can access it
Jul 14 03:04:55 <tlz> im not salary! :(
Jul 14 03:08:54 <rawdeadfish> sry aztekk, server down at work, had to take a call....
Jul 14 03:10:25 <aztekk> its ok i figured it out thnx for ur help i am finally in the root of my phone. now the confusion comes of what i can do from here on
Jul 14 03:11:40 <tlz> lol
Jul 14 03:12:41 <rawdeadfish> the biggest thing is to do the sound notifications patches, have diff sounds play for ringer, email, other alerts
Jul 14 03:13:29 <rawdeadfish> plus mods for messaging, email landscape
Jul 14 03:13:48 <rawdeadfish> and everyone has to install apache web server on their pre, come on!
Jul 14 03:14:58 <tlz> why in the hell would you want apache web server on the pre
Jul 14 03:15:25 <rawdeadfish> tlz: joke!
Jul 14 03:15:28 <tlz> lol
Jul 14 03:26:03 <tharris-> i had to setup dns for it to work tlz
Jul 14 03:26:33 <tlz> you added dns to the pre?
Jul 14 03:26:39 <tharris-> no to my server =p
Jul 14 03:26:42 <tlz> ahhh
Jul 14 03:26:48 <tlz> u install bind?
Jul 14 03:27:03 <tharris-> i can do pop just not imap yet
Jul 14 03:27:24 <tharris-> well i cheated on dns, didnt feel like setting up bind, used my router
Jul 14 03:27:35 <tharris-> bind sux
Jul 14 03:27:37 <tharris-> to configure
Jul 14 03:29:55 <tlz> lol
Jul 14 03:53:02 <tmzt> tharris-: dnsmasq?
Jul 14 03:57:36 <sgtkwol> hi all, anyone interested in helping convert an interface I have created from standard html and js into the app structure of the pre?
Jul 14 03:59:47 <PreGame> anyone know which file the webos uses to know which program to use for which file extension?
Jul 14 04:00:07 <Eguy> I think it is a .so plugin
Jul 14 04:00:34 <PreGame> well there is command-resource-handlers.json in /usr/palm
Jul 14 04:00:44 <PreGame> but i edited that and it didn't open the application i wanted
Jul 14 04:01:25 <Eguy> http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins
Jul 14 04:01:29 <Eguy> Have you looked there?
Jul 14 04:03:49 <JamesBaud> mna, that Active Home Screen looks hella clean
Jul 14 04:03:51 <JamesBaud> man*
Jul 14 04:03:59 <Eguy> yup
Jul 14 04:04:01 <tmzt> sgtkwol: #webos can help you with that
Jul 14 04:04:09 <destinal> JamesBaud: just screenshots or has he released something?
Jul 14 04:04:23 <Eguy> He released an alpha to a select few
Jul 14 04:04:25 <destinal> I tire of all these people holding things back to beta, just let everyone play and patch bugs
Jul 14 04:04:35 <destinal> release early
Jul 14 04:04:38 <destinal> release often
Jul 14 04:04:44 <JamesBaud> i think he released to some people
Jul 14 04:04:56 <destinal> JamesBaud: it's the proprietary software model
Jul 14 04:04:58 <destinal> it sucks
Jul 14 04:04:59 <Eguy> I keep forgetting that the versions are in device info :) Helps
Jul 14 04:05:29 <destinal> many hands make light work
Jul 14 04:05:43 <destinal> who cares if it's perfect
Jul 14 04:05:44 <destinal> release
Jul 14 04:05:48 <destinal> get feedback
Jul 14 04:05:54 <destinal> some will even submit patches for bugs
Jul 14 04:06:04 <Eguy> Only one hand to make a man work... oops that should be in the watercooler channel :P
Jul 14 04:06:47 <Eguy> destinal: you think you can get mms/asx support in the video app by wednesday? :P
Jul 14 04:07:29 <destinal> Eguy: heh, I know almost nothing about the video app / plugin
Jul 14 04:07:45 <Eguy> Or from the web broweser? :P
Jul 14 04:07:48 <destinal> I want a terminal much more
Jul 14 04:07:49 <Eguy> browser*
Jul 14 04:07:55 <tlz> time to learn!!
Jul 14 04:08:04 <Eguy> I want to stream an asx playlist
Jul 14 04:08:17 <tlz> destinal, can u help me root my pre
Jul 14 04:08:18 <destinal> do we know if it will play windows media files at all?
Jul 14 04:08:20 <Eguy> I was able to on my Centro :(
Jul 14 04:08:32 <destinal> tlz: now you're just _trying_ to provoke me
Jul 14 04:08:36 <tlz> lol
Jul 14 04:08:37 <Eguy> LOL
Jul 14 04:08:38 <tlz> sorry!!!
Jul 14 04:08:56 <Eguy> Video Formats: MPEG-4, H.263, H.264
Jul 14 04:08:58 <Eguy> hmm
Jul 14 04:09:03 <destinal> so probably not then
Jul 14 04:09:18 <jdub> what's the active home screen thing?
Jul 14 04:09:19 <destinal> it'll take an mplayer port to get where you want to go I think
Jul 14 04:09:37 <Rick___> the active home screen thing is just an app.
Jul 14 04:09:52 <Rick___> At this point, he's not planning on making it the screen behind the "drag up to unlock" screen.
Jul 14 04:09:54 <destinal> and still I don't know if there are any arm versions of the codecs or source for asf
Jul 14 04:10:00 <Rick___> alwhtough that would be a good place for him to go with it.
Jul 14 04:10:09 <Eguy> I want to be able to play http://www.nasa.gov/55644main_NASATV_Windows.asx
Jul 14 04:10:13 <jdub> destinal: or building more gstreamer plugins
Jul 14 04:10:18 <Eguy> I still am not sure what codec it usex
Jul 14 04:10:21 <Eguy> uses*
Jul 14 04:10:29 <destinal> jdub: oh is that what it uses for video?
Jul 14 04:10:59 <jdub> destinal: based on what's on the filesystem, yeah -> plus dsp offloading
Jul 14 04:11:17 <Eguy> tiz: Where is the wiki?
Jul 14 04:11:18 <jdub> so adding plugins would probably mean doing everything in software, but doable nonetheless
Jul 14 04:11:26 <destinal> jdub: that sounds promising
Jul 14 04:11:36 <destinal> we have a fast cpu
Jul 14 04:11:47 <destinal> for a portable device
Jul 14 04:11:53 <jdub> sadly the x86 emu doesn't have much of the video stuff on it, so i haven't been able to play :-(
Jul 14 04:12:04 <destinal> ah
Jul 14 04:12:09 <Eguy> yup
Jul 14 04:13:23 <tmzt> gst uses ffmpeg codecs for those I think
Jul 14 04:13:44 <tmzt> wmv7 is native, not sure about wm9
Jul 14 04:14:00 <tmzt> you might find a different stream for nasatv though
Jul 14 04:14:49 <Eguy> hmm, they have a qtl http://www.nasa.gov/qtl/151335main_NASA_TV_QT.qtl
Jul 14 04:15:02 <tmzt> qtl?
Jul 14 04:15:06 <Eguy> Quicktime
Jul 14 04:15:07 <Eguy> '
Jul 14 04:15:17 <Eguy> and http://www.nasa.gov/ram/35037main_portal.ram Real, which won't happen
Jul 14 04:15:17 <tmzt> h264?
Jul 14 04:15:25 <Eguy> I am not sure it is h264
Jul 14 04:15:44 <tmzt> what does the source say?
Jul 14 04:15:52 <tmzt> wget -O -
Jul 14 04:16:47 <Eguy> mpeg4
Jul 14 04:16:54 <Eguy> aac audio
Jul 14 04:17:59 <tlz> mmm
Jul 14 04:20:58 <Eguy> :( just brings up endless cards for me
Jul 14 04:24:14 <raeb> ##786# in dialer
Jul 14 04:24:22 <raeb> fun times
Jul 14 04:48:55 <oc80z> yo.
Jul 14 04:50:02 <tlz> yo
Jul 14 04:50:45 <oc80z> whats good?
Jul 14 04:51:25 <tlz> not much
Jul 14 04:51:29 <tlz> messin round on the ole pre
Jul 14 04:51:44 <raeb> its all good
Jul 14 04:51:56 <raeb> except for my brand new pre
Jul 14 04:51:58 <raeb> wont freakin activate
Jul 14 04:52:00 <Eguy> What's a Pre?
Jul 14 04:52:10 <oc80z> activate how?
Jul 14 04:52:18 <oc80z> get IP?
Jul 14 04:52:19 <tlz> root it anyways!@$
Jul 14 04:52:38 <raeb> activate with sprint
Jul 14 04:52:41 <raeb> u know first time you turn it on
Jul 14 04:53:30 <Eguy> Mine activated faster than it took to pair it to my car
Jul 14 04:53:44 * raeb cries
Jul 14 04:54:02 <tlz> mine came pre-activated
Jul 14 04:54:14 <raeb> the guy at best buy said 'take it home and try it again'
Jul 14 04:54:30 <Eguy> Best Buy... Ouch
Jul 14 04:54:39 <tlz> ouch, who would work for best buy
Jul 14 04:54:43 * tlz looks away
Jul 14 04:54:49 <raeb> yeah
Jul 14 04:54:50 <raeb> well
Jul 14 04:54:56 <raeb> best buy takes mail in rebate at the register
Jul 14 04:54:57 <raeb> so
Jul 14 04:54:58 <raeb> hehe
Jul 14 04:54:59 * tlz slowly walks out of the room
Jul 14 04:55:16 * tlz closes door and runs to safety
Jul 14 04:56:32 <tlz> ;)
Jul 14 04:56:39 <Eguy> Worst Buy
Jul 14 04:56:52 <tlz> you guys would love my best buy
Jul 14 04:57:02 <tlz> we price match everyone
Jul 14 04:57:06 <tlz> bad ass service
Jul 14 04:57:08 <Eguy> Are you on crack?
Jul 14 04:57:15 <tlz> no, i run it ;)
Jul 14 04:57:57 <tmzt> Eguy: did that stream work?
Jul 14 04:58:15 <Eguy> Best Buy is a corporation of fail.
Jul 14 04:58:26 <Eguy> tmzt: nope, endless browser cards
Jul 14 04:58:46 <tmzt> did you get the actual url?
Jul 14 04:58:54 <Eguy> yup
Jul 14 04:59:14 <tmzt> what is it?
Jul 14 04:59:56 <tlz> u lie
Jul 14 05:00:26 <Eguy> I wrote it a while back
Jul 14 05:00:46 <tmzt> the qtl?
Jul 14 05:00:56 <Eguy> Yeah
Jul 14 05:01:08 <tmzt> what happens if you wget -O - that?
Jul 14 05:01:20 <Eguy> Oh, I didn't try that
Jul 14 05:01:29 <Eguy> My pre isn't rooted right now
Jul 14 05:01:48 <Eguy> And the commander app is less than stellar
Jul 14 05:01:48 <tmzt> do you have a pc?
Jul 14 05:01:57 <Eguy> How do you root the Pre?
Jul 14 05:02:26 <tmzt> try sh -e 'echo $(wget -O - url)'
Jul 14 05:02:45 <tmzt> wiki
Jul 14 05:02:56 <tlz> lol
Jul 14 05:03:04 <Eguy> tmzt: echo sarcasism
Jul 14 05:03:24 <Eguy> wget spellcheck
Jul 14 05:03:38 <Eguy> Did you mean?   sarcasm
Jul 14 05:03:43 <Eguy> Why yes, yes I did.
Jul 14 05:04:11 <tmzt> ?
Jul 14 05:04:23 <tmzt> oh
Jul 14 05:04:30 <tmzt> wget is not installed?
Jul 14 05:04:36 <tmzt> I thought it was
Jul 14 05:04:42 <Eguy> Just having some fun tmzt ;)
Jul 14 05:06:47 <tlz> if (eguy == jerk) { kill -9 eguy }
Jul 14 05:07:17 <destinal> Eguy:  stop asking how to root the pre!!!
Jul 14 05:07:26 <Eguy> lol you javascripted murdereds mes
Jul 14 05:07:42 <Eguy> destinal: but it is so hard! I don't get it!!
Jul 14 05:07:49 <tmzt> ?
Jul 14 05:08:08 <tmzt> do you have a computer with vlc?
Jul 14 05:08:13 <Eguy> Yeah
Jul 14 05:09:29 <tmzt> try playing that url in vlc
Jul 14 05:10:53 <Eguy> Exclusive pic of Snow Leopard: http://i31.tinypic.com/juhfd2.jpg
Jul 14 05:11:03 <Eguy> Apple's newest OS
Jul 14 05:12:12 <tlz> ur mom's an OS
Jul 14 05:12:15 <Eguy> :O
Jul 14 05:12:24 <Eguy> tmzt: it plays fine
Jul 14 05:12:28 <Eguy> here is the URL:  rtsp://a1352.l1857053128.c18570.g.lq.akamaistream.net/D/1352/18570/v0001/reflector:53128
Jul 14 05:12:38 <tmzt> okay
Jul 14 05:12:44 <tmzt> try that url
Jul 14 05:12:54 <Eguy> frack, it's so long
Jul 14 05:13:21 <tmzt> put it in an m3u or pls
Jul 14 05:13:27 <Eguy> tinyurl won't work
Jul 14 05:13:35 <tmzt> no
Jul 14 05:15:47 <Eguy> WIN
Jul 14 05:16:06 <Eguy> It worked
Jul 14 05:16:41 <Eguy> I wonder why the qtl file didn't work
Jul 14 05:16:46 <Eguy> or an asx
Jul 14 05:17:03 <tmzt> it doesn't support those
Jul 14 05:17:37 <Eguy> I can't add it as a bookmark though
Jul 14 05:19:32 <Eguy> Look at the asx url: mms://209.73.191.58/nqsenc006_b?StreamID=87995605&pl_auth=54146bf0c3798f2b940ab2ddd8ac7acc&ht=120&pl_b=0044B4C2954CACDB336D57FC9E4A5C154A&CG_ID=1368570
Jul 14 05:19:35 <Eguy> geesh
Jul 14 05:21:18 <tmzt> usually you wget the asx and get the mms
Jul 14 05:21:21 <tmzt> oh yeah
Jul 14 05:21:32 <tmzt> this is the mms/asf
Jul 14 05:23:49 <Eguy> Is there a way to add the rtsp to a bookmark
Jul 14 05:24:09 <Eguy> nrvm I just got an idea
Jul 14 05:25:04 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10447 optware/trunk/make/erlang.mk: erlang: added -stage
Jul 14 05:25:13 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10448 optware/trunk/ (4 files in 2 dirs): ejabberd: 1.1.4 -> 2.0.5
Jul 14 05:30:49 <Eguy> hehe, it worked
Jul 14 05:30:59 <Eguy> Got a bookmark for it now
Jul 14 05:39:00 <Eguy> tmzt: where should I put the m3u?
Jul 14 05:39:05 <Eguy> On a web server?
Jul 14 05:43:39 <oc80z> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/apple-tablet/
Jul 14 05:43:49 <oc80z> i bet it cant multi task.
Jul 14 05:44:05 <Eguy> It can overheat though
Jul 14 05:44:14 <oc80z> how freakin ugly is that
Jul 14 05:44:22 <oc80z> its -not- backpackable.
Jul 14 05:44:46 <Eguy> It will sell millions
Jul 14 05:45:06 <oc80z> and if you root it, it will brick
Jul 14 05:45:15 <oc80z> heh
Jul 14 05:45:27 <Eguy> lol
Jul 14 05:45:47 <oc80z> just looking at that gives me a migrain.
Jul 14 05:45:52 <oc80z> if it has no keyboard, its pointless to me.
Jul 14 05:46:06 <oc80z> im all set with a LCD keyboard.
Jul 14 05:46:13 <Eguy> It's apple
Jul 14 05:46:15 <oc80z> yeh
Jul 14 05:46:25 <Eguy> Keyboard is $69.99 extra
Jul 14 05:47:02 <oc80z> yeh
Jul 14 05:48:38 <destinal> does the browser load pls files into the music player?
Jul 14 05:48:57 <destinal> ie shoutcast?
Jul 14 05:49:29 <Eguy> I am not sure, I made a m3u but I tried putting it in media/internal to no avail
Jul 14 05:49:48 <destinal> put it on a web server then?
Jul 14 05:50:45 <oc80z> ...
Jul 14 05:50:55 <oc80z> can we post more into predev/videoplayer
Jul 14 05:50:58 <oc80z> or musicplayer
Jul 14 05:51:20 <oc80z> what protocols it can use, does use, buffer + speed requirements etc.
Jul 14 05:51:28 <oc80z> or ill do it in a sec.
Jul 14 05:52:57 <Eguy> Didn't buffer for me
Jul 14 05:53:05 <Eguy> Although I was using my wifi
Jul 14 05:55:17 <oc80z> ... right
Jul 14 05:55:23 <oc80z> did it play?
Jul 14 05:55:41 <Eguy> The rtsp did
Jul 14 05:56:22 <oc80z> it does use rtsp..
Jul 14 05:56:59 <oc80z> so you can watch tv from your house, or slingbox,
Jul 14 05:57:11 <oc80z> or ah.. u know, TVersity
Jul 14 06:03:59 <Eguy> hmm
Jul 14 06:04:03 <Eguy> mp3's are a no go
Jul 14 06:04:06 <Eguy> m3u*
Jul 14 06:04:19 <Eguy> Just opens up the music app and says streaming
Jul 14 06:06:51 <destinal> Eguy: it plays pls files
Jul 14 06:06:55 <destinal> shoutcast etc
Jul 14 06:07:09 <Eguy> How do you make pls files?
Jul 14 06:07:15 <JamesBaud> im getting no sound out of my palm pre, wtf?
Jul 14 06:07:16 <tlz> ask nicely, and say pls!
Jul 14 06:07:21 <Eguy> LOL
Jul 14 06:07:46 <JamesBaud> any ideas?
Jul 14 06:07:47 <destinal> [playlist]
Jul 14 06:07:47 <destinal> NumberOfEntries=1
Jul 14 06:07:47 <destinal> File1=http://sc6.purestream1.com:8050/
Jul 14 06:08:58 <JamesBaud> WTF, my sound does not work on my pre
Jul 14 06:11:59 <Eguy> mms pls didn't work
Jul 14 06:12:08 <destinal> how'd you try it?
Jul 14 06:12:25 <destinal> they _do_ work
Jul 14 06:12:28 <oc80z> heh
Jul 14 06:12:36 <destinal> oh mms
Jul 14 06:12:36 <Eguy> I created a pls file with a mms file and it didn't play
Jul 14 06:12:39 <destinal> nevermind
Jul 14 06:12:42 <Eguy> yeah
Jul 14 06:12:49 <destinal> yeah mms is not bloody likely
Jul 14 06:12:52 <destinal> in any format
Jul 14 06:13:06 <Eguy> rtsp works just fine
Jul 14 06:13:09 <destinal> yeah
Jul 14 06:13:17 <destinal> rtsp has a supported codec on the device
Jul 14 06:13:28 <destinal> mms is a totally different beast
Jul 14 06:13:31 <Eguy> Yup
Jul 14 06:13:44 <destinal> that's cool it has rtsp tho
Jul 14 06:13:55 <oc80z> very
Jul 14 06:13:57 <Eguy> Now I can get NASA TV :)
Jul 14 06:13:57 <destinal> and mp3 streaming via pls
Jul 14 06:14:07 <destinal> and maybe m3u
Jul 14 06:14:17 <Eguy> But its 150k versus 500k+ on the mms
Jul 14 06:14:37 <destinal> apples and oranges
Jul 14 06:14:46 <destinal> bitrate means very little compared between protocols
Jul 14 06:15:00 <Eguy> You can see the quality difference
Jul 14 06:15:08 <destinal> oh well ok then :)
Jul 14 06:15:13 <Eguy> :P
Jul 14 06:15:38 <Eguy> and hear the audio...mono vs stereo ;) But on the Pre, the audio is so bad anyway that it is fine :D
Jul 14 06:15:52 <destinal> well if you used headphones audio is good
Jul 14 06:16:03 <Eguy> I havent tried with the stream yet
Jul 14 06:16:10 <Eguy> Lemme try it out
Jul 14 06:16:25 <destinal> I mean the stream may still be bad
Jul 14 06:16:29 <destinal> but pre audio is good
Jul 14 06:16:46 <Eguy> Oh, yeah. But the Pre's speaker is bad
Jul 14 06:16:55 <destinal> so someone just needs to make a shoutcast app now
Jul 14 06:17:00 <destinal> can't be that hard
Jul 14 06:17:04 <JamesBaud> how can I 'hard reset' my pre? my sound dont work
Jul 14 06:17:14 <tlz> take the battery out!
Jul 14 06:17:15 <tlz> ;)
Jul 14 06:17:21 <destinal> JamesBaud: I remember hearing people complain about that
Jul 14 06:17:22 <JamesBaud> tried that
Jul 14 06:17:24 <tosha> hold the power button down
Jul 14 06:17:24 <destinal> trying to remember what did it
Jul 14 06:17:47 <tosha> JamesBaud: what sound doesn't work?
Jul 14 06:18:04 <JamesBaud> everything, phone dialer, swoosh sounds, my alarm
Jul 14 06:18:09 <oc80z> who was looking to sync tasks
Jul 14 06:18:10 <tlz> flip the sound on/off switch?
Jul 14 06:18:23 <oc80z> exchange works.
Jul 14 06:18:24 <JamesBaud> its on and full volume
Jul 14 06:18:25 <tosha> does your headset works?
Jul 14 06:18:36 <tosha> is it vibrating?
Jul 14 06:18:41 <JamesBaud> yes
Jul 14 06:18:50 <tosha> I wonder if it's the vibrate on/off switch--does that switch modes? can you see volume changing?
Jul 14 06:19:11 <Eguy> Hey! The audio quality on the stream with headphones is great
Jul 14 06:19:22 <JamesBaud> headphones dont work either
Jul 14 06:19:36 <JamesBaud> this is my phucking luck
Jul 14 06:19:54 <tosha> JamesBaud: don't blame yourself--get it replaced
Jul 14 06:20:09 <tmzt> add gst plugins for mms
Jul 14 06:20:13 <JamesBaud> but i modded the shit out of it, lol
Jul 14 06:20:24 <tmzt> if the codec is supported
Jul 14 06:20:53 <destinal> JamesBaud: do you have pandora installed?
Jul 14 06:20:55 <tlz> JamesBaud
Jul 14 06:20:58 <tlz> go to device info
Jul 14 06:21:00 <tlz> and reset options
Jul 14 06:21:00 <JamesBaud> yes
Jul 14 06:21:01 <Eguy> That is probably why it isn't working :P
Jul 14 06:21:22 <destinal> I seem to recall the person who had the problem had pandora
Jul 14 06:21:25 <destinal> and it was related to that
Jul 14 06:21:54 <JamesBaud> wtf, pandora works, i hear sound now
Jul 14 06:22:08 <tlz> lol
Jul 14 06:22:39 <destinal> right like it was pandora seizing the audio device
Jul 14 06:22:49 <destinal> and somehow didn't let go properly
Jul 14 06:23:55 <JamesBaud> shit, still not working, wtf
Jul 14 06:24:07 <destinal> I don't remember the fix though
Jul 14 06:24:14 <JamesBaud> when i run pandora, i hear music, when i try to change my ringtone, i dont hear anything
Jul 14 06:24:24 <tmzt> fix?
Jul 14 06:24:32 <Seanstar> Hello
Jul 14 06:24:35 <tmzt> sounds like pa stream volume
Jul 14 06:24:37 <destinal> tmzt: there was a way they stopped having the problem
Jul 14 06:24:48 <pg13> Will there be any issues I will suffer from uncommenting the additional launcher page functionality?
Jul 14 06:25:07 <tmzt> nothing should seize the audio with pa
Jul 14 06:25:30 <destinal> well maybe it adjusted stream volumes
Jul 14 06:25:32 <destinal> I don't recall
Jul 14 06:25:42 <tmzt> without pavue I'm not sure how to fix it
Jul 14 06:25:50 <tmzt> pactl should work though
Jul 14 06:26:04 <Decimation> hey guys.
Jul 14 06:26:06 <tmzt> pavucontrol I meant
Jul 14 06:26:11 <destinal> I wonder if pandora is palm.com.pandora because of private bus calls
Jul 14 06:26:19 <Decimation> this is dhMassacre at precentral
Jul 14 06:26:30 <destinal> Decimation: welcome
Jul 14 06:26:37 <Decimation> someone told me to do this
Jul 14 06:26:37 <Decimation> rwhitby
Jul 14 06:26:39 <Decimation> contact
Jul 14 06:26:39 <Decimation> rwhitby
Jul 14 06:26:45 <tmzt> rwhitby:
Jul 14 06:26:46 <JamesBaud> trying a reset one more time
Jul 14 06:26:56 <rwhitby> Decimation: hi
Jul 14 06:27:11 <Decimation> hey, i was told to contact you by someone at precentral
Jul 14 06:27:17 <rwhitby> do you remember who?
Jul 14 06:27:22 <Decimation> im looking to set up a repo system for the palm pre
Jul 14 06:27:25 <rwhitby> (or which thread?)
Jul 14 06:27:38 <Eguy> Almighty rhwitby, I seek answers
Jul 14 06:27:42 <Decimation> rboatright
Jul 14 06:27:45 <Decimation> that guy told me to
Jul 14 06:27:58 <Eguy> :)
Jul 14 06:28:04 <rwhitby> Decimation: ok, are you familiar with the stuff we're doing here in webos-internals?
Jul 14 06:28:15 <Decimation> i am making a packaging/repo system for homebrew app downloading, and he just said i should know you
Jul 14 06:28:24 <destinal> Decimation: nice
Jul 14 06:28:27 <Decimation> not too much rwhitby, can you explain a little?
Jul 14 06:28:34 <JamesBaud> phuck, sounds still does not work
Jul 14 06:28:37 <tmzt> open apps or modified ones?
Jul 14 06:28:37 <Eguy> Oh, was that the installer?
Jul 14 06:28:49 <tmzt> JamesBaud: pactl
Jul 14 06:29:10 <JamesBaud> nope
Jul 14 06:29:12 <Decimation> just any app that a homebrew developer wants to sumbit
Jul 14 06:29:15 <Decimation> submit*
Jul 14 06:29:25 <rwhitby> Decimation: there are a number of people looking into exactly that, and we're trying to get some coordination going so as not to duplicate work where people don't specifically want to, and to make things interoperable at least where people do want to duplicate (for instance) clients and/or repos.
Jul 14 06:29:49 <tmzt> like an api?
Jul 14 06:29:52 <tmzt> cool/good
Jul 14 06:30:11 <rwhitby> Decimation: to start with, we have a couple of repositories at gitorious.org
Jul 14 06:30:14 <tmzt> is ipkg too limited anyway?
Jul 14 06:30:16 <tosha> JamesBaud: try to avoid yanking the battery because that's not healthy for flash
Jul 14 06:30:27 <tmzt> tosha: ?
Jul 14 06:30:31 <Decimation> well, im looking to create my own sort of thing
Jul 14 06:30:37 <tmzt> only if you are flashing
Jul 14 06:30:43 <Decimation> i have it kind of developed already, i think i have a good idea going here.
Jul 14 06:30:49 <rwhitby> the first is the webos-internals/modifications repository, where we store patches for existing Palm apps (and possibly patches for third-party apps too)
Jul 14 06:31:26 <rwhitby> Decimation: so for modifications to existing apps, we've implemented a quilt-based system which manages patch files.
Jul 14 06:31:31 <tosha> tmzt: I guess I should say--it may corrupt data
Jul 14 06:32:05 <Decimation> Well, as of now, im just making two windows apps
Jul 14 06:32:16 <rwhitby> the interoperable format is the standard patch file, and one mechanism of managing them is by using quilt on the target device.  we've left room for people to write GUI apps which use the patch files and present a more friendly user interface (function first, form comes later)
Jul 14 06:32:18 <tosha> rwhitby: what's quilt?
Jul 14 06:32:29 <Decimation> one for developers to package their homebrew .ipk's with info such as title, developers, version, and comments
Jul 14 06:32:36 <rwhitby> tosha: take a look at the applying-patches page on the wiki
Jul 14 06:32:52 <Decimation> the other for users to open up, view all apps hosted on the repo, and download and install via usb
Jul 14 06:33:08 <Decimation> using greg_roll's command line tool with my GUI
Jul 14 06:33:21 <rwhitby> Decimation: .ipks already have quite a few defined fields for that type of meta-information about the package
Jul 14 06:33:39 <rwhitby> Decimation: what things do you need that aren't already covered by the ipkg format itself?
Jul 14 06:33:47 <Decimation> yeah, its just easier for me to package it seperatly..
Jul 14 06:33:56 <rwhitby> pardon?
Jul 14 06:34:05 <Eguy> tosha: http://quilt.sourceforge.net/getting-started.html
Jul 14 06:34:09 <Decimation> im just a 14 year old programmer looking to get into helping develop anything for the pre.
Jul 14 06:34:12 <tmzt> rwhitby: pkgkit might work if we can talk to it from js
Jul 14 06:34:31 <tmzt> Decimation: a front end would be useful
Jul 14 06:34:32 <JamesBaud> phuck, i want to cry, my sounds dont work
Jul 14 06:34:45 <tmzt> ipkg already has a package format and repo layout
Jul 14 06:35:01 <Eguy> 14 :O?
Jul 14 06:35:07 <rwhitby> Decimation: you've got a choice in front of you then.  go it alone with your own metadata format, or build upon 10 years of work on ipkg and over 1300 existing ipkgs available for the Pre.
Jul 14 06:35:12 <tmzt> it can handle network installs and upgrades
Jul 14 06:35:22 <destinal> JamesBaud: you could try  initctl stop pulseaudio; rm -rf ~root/.pulse;   reboot
Jul 14 06:35:23 <tmzt> and also multiple install locations
Jul 14 06:35:40 <tmzt> just stop/restart pulse
Jul 14 06:35:44 <rwhitby> Decimation: if you were going to create packages for Debian, would you create your own format, or use the .deb format?
Jul 14 06:35:49 <destinal> tmzt: well he's rebooted
Jul 14 06:35:53 <tmzt> if that doesn't fix it something is wrong
Jul 14 06:35:55 <tmzt> oh
Jul 14 06:36:02 <jdub> tmzt: packagekit on the pre would be hilarious (-ly useful)
Jul 14 06:36:05 <destinal> but pulse saves settings in .pulse so I figured...
Jul 14 06:36:09 <rwhitby> Decimation: if you were going to create packages for RedHat, would you create your own format, or use the .rpm format?
Jul 14 06:36:11 <destinal> it will mkdir it on start
Jul 14 06:36:21 <tmzt> okay
Jul 14 06:36:23 <Decimation> i see you're point
Jul 14 06:36:29 <JamesBaud> ok, i will try that
Jul 14 06:36:50 <rwhitby> Decimation: my advice would be to work with the existing ipkg format, extract the information that already exists in there, and use that information directly in your excellent GUI installer app.
Jul 14 06:37:03 <rwhitby> (i.e. work on the stuff that isn't already solved)
Jul 14 06:37:09 <Decimation> im just looking to help make it easier for the masses to browse, download, and install apps for the pre via usb...
Jul 14 06:37:11 <tmzt> rwhitby: I suggest pk because it already has support
Jul 14 06:37:21 <tmzt> via usb?
Jul 14 06:37:37 <tmzt> what's wrong with on the pre itself?
Jul 14 06:37:46 <Decimation> i am still learning that
Jul 14 06:37:48 <Decimation> im just saying
Jul 14 06:38:03 <rwhitby> Decimation: then your installer can work with *any* package created for the Pre (Palm updates, app store signed ipks, the 1300+ optware package, all existing homebrew) without needing to create a new format which you'll have to convince developers to support.
Jul 14 06:38:03 <Decimation> a temporary solution for the masses
Jul 14 06:38:11 <tmzt> rwhitby: it's a dbus service
Jul 14 06:38:26 <tmzt> Palm is using ipks?
Jul 14 06:38:29 <rwhitby> yes
Jul 14 06:38:32 <Eguy> yup
Jul 14 06:38:50 <destinal> all existing stuff does as does the sdk and update service
Jul 14 06:38:57 <tmzt> I mean for apps
Jul 14 06:38:57 <destinal> and catalog
Jul 14 06:39:03 <tmzt> not just core packages
Jul 14 06:39:06 <destinal> yes
Jul 14 06:39:12 <tmzt> okay
Jul 14 06:39:14 <rwhitby> Decimation: ipkg also has a repository layout standard, and a Packages file format which is an index to packages in a package feed, and the ability to install packages from multiple feeds.
Jul 14 06:39:46 <rwhitby> Decimation: and to handle upgrades, and handle (and support merging of) user changes to configuration files that the package wants to update.
Jul 14 06:39:50 <tmzt> it's also mostly compatible with apt
Jul 14 06:40:04 <tmzt> and dpkg
Jul 14 06:40:08 <rwhitby> Decimation: ipkg has been used in the hand-held, router and NAS world for many years.  it is very mature.
Jul 14 06:40:15 <destinal> tmzt: note this from the catalog  -  https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/apps/21/0.9.11/files/com.palm.pandora_0.9.11_all_signed.ipk
Jul 14 06:40:22 <rwhitby> (that's why Palm chose it I expect)
Jul 14 06:40:23 <destinal> that may be an older version but palm still is hosting it
Jul 14 06:40:47 <Decimation> okay
Jul 14 06:40:52 <Decimation> then heres what im looking to do
Jul 14 06:40:59 <tmzt> debian version 2 package?
Jul 14 06:41:00 <rwhitby> Decimation: what is missing is a host-based version of an ipkg installer.  I think that's what you want to develop.
Jul 14 06:41:32 <rwhitby> Decimation: your host application should take a specification of ipkg feeds, and present the user the ability to install selected pakages on the Pre via usb
Jul 14 06:41:45 <tmzt> can we add signing certs yet?
Jul 14 06:41:45 <rwhitby> *that* would be a killer app right now.
Jul 14 06:42:04 <tmzt> so we could have a temporary root
Jul 14 06:42:07 <rwhitby> Decimation: are you aware of optware?
Jul 14 06:42:08 <tmzt> install cert
Jul 14 06:42:31 <rwhitby> tmzt: we can do that at any time, but it's not necessary when using the usb install method I believe.
Jul 14 06:42:34 <tmzt> or develop modified firmware images like that webblog post from launch
Jul 14 06:42:42 <JamesBaud> destinal: didnt work, but i dont get it, pandora works, so i have sound, but when i try to change my ringtone, doesnt work, and im testing with stock ringtones
Jul 14 06:42:44 <tmzt> usb install method?
Jul 14 06:42:52 <JamesBaud> pandora works=i hear music
Jul 14 06:43:01 <rwhitby> tmzt: installation using novacom
Jul 14 06:43:03 <tmzt> pactl list
Jul 14 06:43:07 <destinal> JamesBaud: yeah, I'm guessing something to do with the pulse mixer
Jul 14 06:43:20 <tmzt> rwhitby: a novacom protocol command?
Jul 14 06:43:36 <rwhitby> tmzt: yep
Jul 14 06:43:39 <destinal> JamesBaud:  in an extreme case you could just restore with the doctor
Jul 14 06:44:00 <destinal> not sure what got you in this fix though
Jul 14 06:44:01 <tmzt> do we have filesystem commands yet?
Jul 14 06:44:08 <JamesBaud> yea, but ill loose all that modding did, yea know
Jul 14 06:44:10 <tmzt> jdub: pactl status
Jul 14 06:44:12 <Decimation> yes rwhitby.. thats what im looking to do, present the user with the option of browsing/downloading files and installing via usb
Jul 14 06:44:14 <Decimation> all in one app
Jul 14 06:44:18 <tmzt> jdub: sorry
Jul 14 06:44:28 <rwhitby> Decimation: take a look at http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/ and http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/ and especially http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ (which works on the Pre) for examples of existing ipkg repositories.
Jul 14 06:44:36 <Eguy> Should keeps the n00bs at bay :)
Jul 14 06:44:42 <tmzt> JamesBaud: pactl status
Jul 14 06:44:45 <destinal> Decimation: do you intend to use the java files from the doctor or handle communication to novacomd on the host or create your own novacom client?
Jul 14 06:44:52 <rwhitby> Decimation: we can *easily* create a repository feed like those for all existing homebrew applications
Jul 14 06:45:19 <rwhitby> Decimation: then your app could just read the Packages file from that feed (which includes all the information you are looking for) and present that to the user for them to choose which apps to install
Jul 14 06:45:46 <destinal> Decimation: by the way, this is very much how cydia works on the iphone
Jul 14 06:45:47 <rwhitby> Decimation: bpadalino knows all about the novacom protocol to install apps over usb
Jul 14 06:46:09 <Seanstar> how would I load up a directory in the emulator?
Jul 14 06:46:13 <JamesBaud> pactl status?
Jul 14 06:46:19 <destinal> dpkg and all
Jul 14 06:46:25 <destinal> err ipkg
Jul 14 06:46:58 <destinal> Seanstar: define "load up"
Jul 14 06:47:51 <Seanstar> i was following the steps in the create your own app section of the site
Jul 14 06:48:19 <destinal> Seanstar: sdk or no sdk?
Jul 14 06:48:25 <Seanstar> sdk
Jul 14 06:48:38 <Seanstar> im learning >_>;;
Jul 14 06:50:07 <rwhitby> Decimation: another example of ipkg usage is for the OpenMoko mobile phones at http://downloads.freesmartphone.org/fso-testing/feeds/
Jul 14 06:50:36 <destinal> Seanstar:   palm-package myprojectdir
Jul 14 06:50:36 <destinal>   look at the name of the ipk it makes
Jul 14 06:50:42 <destinal> palm-install  thatname
Jul 14 06:50:52 <tmzt> and they had assasin on one version
Jul 14 06:50:55 <Seanstar> ok
Jul 14 06:51:00 <tmzt> which was a front endd
Jul 14 06:51:01 <rwhitby> and many different types of handheld organisers at http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/releases/2007.12/images/
Jul 14 06:51:05 <rwhitby> Decimation: ^
Jul 14 06:51:20 <tmzt> do palm ipks have dependencies?
Jul 14 06:51:33 <rwhitby> tmzt: yep
Jul 14 06:51:48 <rwhitby> tmzt: there are two types of palm ipkgs
Jul 14 06:51:56 <rwhitby> the ones from openembedded that form the base linux platform
Jul 14 06:52:07 <rwhitby> and the ones from Palm that form webOS and the applications
Jul 14 06:52:19 <rwhitby> the openembedded ones definitely have dependencies
Jul 14 06:52:27 <destinal> the apps don't have dependencies
Jul 14 06:52:38 <rwhitby> I don't think Palm have put much dependency information in the webOS and apps ipkgs.
Jul 14 06:52:42 <tmzt> odd
Jul 14 06:52:43 <rwhitby> destinal: right
Jul 14 06:53:00 <tmzt> yeah, I assumed core ones did
Jul 14 06:53:09 <rwhitby> tmzt: we (webos-internals) have put dependency information in our open source apps - e.g. commander depends on the shell service ipkg
Jul 14 06:53:27 <Decimation> so i would need info from you guys to create an app that will provide a feed of .ipk files to download
Jul 14 06:53:32 <tmzt> I would rather see a webos virtual
Jul 14 06:53:36 <Decimation> and i already know how to install via usb
Jul 14 06:53:53 <destinal> 352 with dependencies 88 without
Jul 14 06:53:58 <rwhitby> Decimation: you should assume that the feed exists, and have your app read the Packages file directly from the feed.
Jul 14 06:54:24 <rwhitby> Decimation: then we get the community to manage a feed which points to all the known homebrew apps.
Jul 14 06:54:28 <Decimation> okay, where do i read from?
Jul 14 06:54:50 <rwhitby> Decimation: we can create an ipkg.webos-internals.org site for the feed.
Jul 14 06:55:09 <tmzt> it's on nslu hosting?
Jul 14 06:55:23 <tmzt> nslu-project
Jul 14 06:55:23 <Decimation> okay, so you provide a feed
Jul 14 06:55:24 <rwhitby> tmzt: yep, servers at OSUOSL, in the same rack as master.kernel.org
Jul 14 06:55:33 <tmzt> cool
Jul 14 06:55:34 <Decimation> and maybe the community will host their own apps
Jul 14 06:55:52 <rwhitby> Decimation: the feed can point to apps located anywhere, as long as they are packaged as ipks.
Jul 14 06:56:04 <destinal> anyone can maintain their own
Jul 14 06:56:10 <tmzt> rwhitby: did I ever tell you I'm using optware on nslu(unslung) for irc?
Jul 14 06:56:11 <Decimation> and ill even allow adding of repositories so anyone can add a special repo
Jul 14 06:56:14 <destinal> you just ship your tool with a default list and let people add
Jul 14 06:56:21 <rwhitby> some in the community will use the webos-applications open source application source code repository that we have set up, others will host their own
Jul 14 06:56:21 <destinal> yup
Jul 14 06:56:48 <tmzt> huh, how are we defining homebrew anyway?
Jul 14 06:57:02 <rwhitby> tmzt: any app that is not in the app catalog?
Jul 14 06:57:07 <rwhitby> dunno
Jul 14 06:57:29 <destinal> rwhitby: so hey, does it make sense for their to be an auto build process like optware, people check in code, ipgks automagically go up?
Jul 14 06:57:33 <tmzt> packages that do quilt scripts are okay if the license on the script is?
Jul 14 06:57:38 <rwhitby> destinal: absolutely
Jul 14 06:57:48 <tmzt> like ttfcorefonts or similar packages
Jul 14 06:57:55 <rwhitby> destinal: and we can add such a thing to the existing autobuilder which builds the optware ipkgs
Jul 14 06:58:16 <Decimation> okay guys, bed time for me.
Jul 14 06:58:23 <Decimation> what time zone areyou in rwhitby?
Jul 14 06:58:25 <destinal> Decimation: this sounds cool
Jul 14 06:58:29 <rwhitby> Decimation: GMT+9:30
Jul 14 06:58:42 <Decimation> okay, ill try my best to catch you whenever i can
Jul 14 06:58:50 <Decimation> you seem genius, can't wait to talk again
Jul 14 06:58:52 <Decimation> cya guys
Jul 14 06:58:57 <destinal> Decimation: later
Jul 14 06:59:03 <rwhitby> Decimation: I'm always idling here, and if you reference me by 'rwhitby' I will see it when I wake and get back to you.
Jul 14 06:59:17 <Decimation> okay, thanks.
Jul 14 06:59:26 <Eguy> He is pretty smart eh? :)
Jul 14 06:59:38 <rwhitby> Decimation: if you build on the community, your app will excel, and you won't have to do as much work.
Jul 14 06:59:54 <destinal> and people will use it for everything even beyond what you expect :)
Jul 14 07:00:53 <rwhitby> that is what building a community is all about.  getting people excited about working with interoperable standards.
Jul 14 07:01:29 * rwhitby goes to create ipkg.webos-internals.org ...
Jul 14 07:01:45 <destinal> I like the idea of not having a formal acceptance process like palm, but rather just having people sign up to commit stuff
Jul 14 07:02:14 <destinal> any abuses are easy to shut down without micromanaging
Jul 14 07:02:19 <Decimation> yeah rwhitby, interoperable is where the success is at :)
Jul 14 07:02:24 <rwhitby> destinal: we have found with optware, that anyone who is smart enough to write a makefile that the autobuilder can use, is not someone who is going to abuse.
Jul 14 07:02:48 <Decimation> i hope my novice programming skills *imonly14* will help out the pre community
Jul 14 07:02:50 <rwhitby> we have over a hundred people with optware commit rights, and not one incident of abuse in over 4 years of operation.
Jul 14 07:03:17 <destinal> Decimation: how do you plan on licensing, and will you be distributing source code?
Jul 14 07:03:19 <rwhitby> Decimation: it's the attitude and the aptitude that counts, not the age.
Jul 14 07:03:34 <Eguy> Kids these days... ;)
Jul 14 07:03:49 <Decimation> my application will be full open-source.
Jul 14 07:04:02 <Decimation> if you aren't profitting, why hide it?
Jul 14 07:04:05 <destinal> awesome, that means the community can help you improve it too
Jul 14 07:04:37 <rwhitby> Decimation: excellent.  would you like to host the source code at http://gitorious.org/webos-applications ?
Jul 14 07:05:04 <Decimation> sure :)
Jul 14 07:05:25 <rwhitby> Decimation: we can give you commit rights there to a new repository of your choice right now.  just sign up with gitorious, tell me your username, and your preferred application name.
Jul 14 07:05:32 <destinal> Decimation: the nice thing about being 14 especially in summer, is you have time to hack on this stuff -- I'm jealous :)
Jul 14 07:05:51 <Eguy> hahaaha destinal
Jul 14 07:05:55 <rwhitby> Decimation: have you learnt how to use git ?
Jul 14 07:06:07 <Decimation> learning every day rwhitby
Jul 14 07:06:18 <Decimation> and destinal, between girls and friends, there is hardly time ;)
Jul 14 07:06:30 <Decimation> just late at night for me, 3 AM here right n ow.
Jul 14 07:06:30 <destinal> heh, ok I see you have your priorities straight
Jul 14 07:06:36 <destinal> :)
Jul 14 07:06:41 <Eguy> haha
Jul 14 07:07:11 <destinal> but girls friends and a job would be less time
Jul 14 07:07:37 <Decimation> hah, i guess i
Jul 14 07:07:48 <Decimation> i guess i'll just have to make time by not getting a job :P
Jul 14 07:08:12 <Eguy> Sooner or later you will have to young grasshoppa :)
Jul 14 07:08:40 <Decimation> i know i know, might as well enjoy it while i have it
Jul 14 07:08:40 <destinal> Decimation: consider that starting an open source project can be valuable experience for stuff later in life.  sounds like you're doing ok..
Jul 14 07:09:06 <Decimation> lol, well, starting high school in september will cut time down a lot
Jul 14 07:09:37 <rwhitby> Decimation: I make hiring decisions at the company where I work, and open source project involvement is something I look for in candidates.
Jul 14 07:09:40 <destinal> Decimation: by then hopefully you have a popular tool and people will help, I know I may myself
Jul 14 07:09:42 <Decimation> A.P math and science for-sure won't help
Jul 14 07:10:04 <Eguy> :) When I was 14, I was playing with a calculator :)
Jul 14 07:10:29 <Decimation> lol, i just got out of iphone development, didn't like it, don't know why.
Jul 14 07:10:57 <rwhitby> I expect there's not much open source community atmosphere in iphone development ...
Jul 14 07:11:02 <Decimation> the main reason i got out was because i sold my ipod touch to buy my pre, good decision i like to think...
Jul 14 07:11:11 <HebrewzHammer> lol, nice
Jul 14 07:11:13 * Eguy thinks rwhitby is right
Jul 14 07:11:17 <Decimation> no, open source is not what they are about
Jul 14 07:11:29 <destinal> Decimation: I think so.  I think the pre is going to be way more powerful before long
Jul 14 07:11:30 <Decimation> the iphone dev team is a full team of pure-genius though.
Jul 14 07:11:38 <destinal> Decimation: I agree there
Jul 14 07:11:50 <Eguy> meh, I am not budging :)
Jul 14 07:12:02 <Decimation> i just know the pre has so much potential
Jul 14 07:12:09 <Decimation> although it is missing a lot of key features.
Jul 14 07:12:23 <destinal> Decimation: if you mainly want to fight against "the man", this is the wrong platform
Jul 14 07:12:24 <button> you gotta start somewhere
Jul 14 07:12:42 <Eguy> Yup, 1.0...It's pretty damn good
Jul 14 07:12:43 <destinal> if you want a very extensible platform in a lot of ways, it is
Jul 14 07:12:59 <destinal> the right platform
Jul 14 07:13:00 <button> yeah i think its a pretty full featured 1.0
Jul 14 07:13:01 <Decimation> i just want to make the pre, better.
Jul 14 07:13:11 <tmzt> the first homebrew apps on iPhone where gpl I think
Jul 14 07:13:19 <rwhitby> Decimation: some of the iphone dev team are in this very channel
Jul 14 07:13:24 <Decimation> i guess i just don't remember the iphone at 1.0
Jul 14 07:13:25 <tmzt> even before the sdk was released
Jul 14 07:13:39 <Decimation> rwhitby: :O, who?!?
Jul 14 07:13:52 <Decimation> musclenerd
Jul 14 07:13:53 <Decimation> :O
Jul 14 07:13:55 <destinal> tmzt: yeah well the toolchain was based on GCC
Jul 14 07:14:21 <rwhitby> Decimation: s aurik too
Jul 14 07:14:26 <destinal> apple didn't provide one so it was extended totally by the iphone hacker community
Jul 14 07:14:53 <Decimation> saurik, now there is a genius.
Jul 14 07:15:10 <tmzt> destinal: I mean the terminal and other apps
Jul 14 07:15:15 <tmzt> forget the name
Jul 14 07:15:21 <HebrewzHammer> so, what does the iphone run on? i.e., the Pre is linux
Jul 14 07:15:23 <destinal> tmzt: ah, cool
Jul 14 07:15:41 <tmzt> iPhones is OSX\Darwin
Jul 14 07:15:43 <destinal> HebrewzHammer: same as OSX
Jul 14 07:15:46 <HebrewzHammer> oh
Jul 14 07:15:52 <HebrewzHammer> should've guessed
Jul 14 07:16:12 <destinal> just built for ARM and different libraries layered on top of the kernel
Jul 14 07:16:22 <Decimation> ive always wondered, why are the apple fanboys so much more diehard from other fanboys? lol
Jul 14 07:16:34 <destinal> It's the reality distortion field
Jul 14 07:16:44 <HebrewzHammer> b/c apple is god's gift to man, duh
Jul 14 07:16:44 <button> ^
Jul 14 07:16:51 <HebrewzHammer> lol
Jul 14 07:16:55 <Eguy> ahahahah
Jul 14 07:17:01 <Eguy> Steve Jobs is
Jul 14 07:17:06 <destinal> heh
Jul 14 07:17:13 <Decimation> I like steve jobs
Jul 14 07:17:18 <Decimation> lol
Jul 14 07:17:22 <Eguy> You can leave now :)
Jul 14 07:17:28 <Eguy> hehe just kidding
Jul 14 07:17:28 <HebrewzHammer> lol
Jul 14 07:17:31 <destinal> ok good night folks.  Decimation: check out the git repository for posting code
Jul 14 07:17:40 <destinal> so when you're ready it has a home
Jul 14 07:17:46 <Decimation> okay
Jul 14 07:17:52 <Decimation> not sure how soon that will be
Jul 14 07:17:54 <Decimation> but it will happen
Jul 14 07:17:57 <Decimation> cya destinal
Jul 14 07:18:02 <destinal> night
Jul 14 07:19:26 <rwhitby> Decimation: you're on the right path now.  it will happen.
Jul 14 07:19:46 <rwhitby> and you've got a bunch of people who will help you traverse that right path
Jul 14 07:19:53 <rwhitby> (here)
Jul 14 07:20:52 <Decimation> thanks.
Jul 14 07:20:58 <Decimation> im just nervous, im really new to all this.
Jul 14 07:21:28 <HebrewzHammer> same here, i'm on HTML Dog learning CSS, lol
Jul 14 07:21:31 <tmzt> destinal-asleep: so how is terminal doing, who's the other developer?
Jul 14 07:21:46 <tmzt> ah
Jul 14 07:21:51 <tmzt> sleeping
Jul 14 07:21:59 <Decimation> lol, asleep... :P
Jul 14 07:22:44 <Decimation> oh, and rwhitby, i registered at gitorious.org
Jul 14 07:22:47 <HebrewzHammer> If I already have a few patches installed and there's an update, all I have to do is "git pull" to update the list and then "quilt push" to update the patches, right? I don't have to re-import patches, right?
Jul 14 07:23:05 <rwhitby> Decimation: username?
Jul 14 07:23:22 <Decimation> decimation
Jul 14 07:23:31 <rwhitby> HebrewzHammer: it's best to quilt pop the patch in question, then re-import the updated patch, then quilt push it
Jul 14 07:24:13 <rwhitby> Decimation: http://gitorious.org/+webos-applications-developers/memberships
Jul 14 07:24:27 <HebrewzHammer> oh, then how would you know which patches have updates?
Jul 14 07:24:53 <rwhitby> anyone else who is developing open source webos apps is welcome to be part of that team, and have their own repo in the webos-applications project at gitorious.org
Jul 14 07:24:57 <tmzt> git status?
Jul 14 07:25:15 <rwhitby> HebrewzHammer: git pull will tell you which files have changed
Jul 14 07:25:19 <HebrewzHammer> oh
Jul 14 07:25:19 <Decimation> rwhitby, this is going to sound stupid, but this is actually my first time using irc
Jul 14 07:25:27 <Decimation> how do i copy and paste in this window... it wont let me select
Jul 14 07:25:34 <rwhitby> Decimation: depends on the client
Jul 14 07:25:38 <Decimation> mirc
Jul 14 07:25:43 <rwhitby> dunno
Jul 14 07:26:05 <Decimation> hah, darn.
Jul 14 07:26:24 <tmzt> paste into?
Jul 14 07:26:30 <tmzt> try ctrl-v
Jul 14 07:26:35 <tmzt> or ctrl-ins
Jul 14 07:26:36 <Decimation> not to paste
Jul 14 07:26:39 <tmzt> out of
Jul 14 07:26:42 <Decimation> to copy from the convo
Jul 14 07:26:48 <tmzt> no idea
Jul 14 07:26:58 <tmzt> it should have a logging option
Jul 14 07:26:58 <Decimation> hah, nvm
Jul 14 07:27:00 <Decimation> figured it out
Jul 14 07:27:07 <tmzt> or use the logs from topic
Jul 14 07:27:09 <tmzt> how?
Jul 14 07:27:30 <Decimation> just double clicked on the link
Jul 14 07:27:36 <tmzt> those aren't realtime though
Jul 14 07:27:37 <tmzt> ah
Jul 14 07:27:45 <HebrewzHammer> interesting, the powersave smartflex/ondemand patches don't have the .patch extensions, neither does the phone-show-call-duration ptach
Jul 14 07:27:50 <rwhitby> tmzt: logs here are realtime
Jul 14 07:27:58 <tmzt> on nslu2?
Jul 14 07:28:01 <rwhitby> yep
Jul 14 07:28:14 <tmzt> didn't know that
Jul 14 07:28:17 <Decimation> hey, would anyone in here know anything about the text message forwarding patch, i have a question about it.
Jul 14 07:28:37 <rwhitby> tmzt: http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt
Jul 14 07:28:40 <rwhitby> and http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals-prev.txt for the previous 24 hours
Jul 14 07:28:45 <tmzt> #htc-linux is on rikers and what use to be iclem
Jul 14 07:28:47 <rwhitby> then they go into the archives dir
Jul 14 07:28:53 <tmzt> which is realtime
Jul 14 07:28:57 <tmzt> ah
Jul 14 07:29:16 <tmzt> the interfaceat irc.netripper.com is good
Jul 14 07:29:42 <rwhitby> "Apache is functioning normally" <- good interface ;-)
Jul 14 07:30:37 <tmzt> h
Jul 14 07:30:39 <tmzt> hey
Jul 14 07:30:41 <tmzt> irclog
Jul 14 07:30:41 <Decimation> gosh, i feel so novice.
Jul 14 07:30:56 <Decimation> im still trying to figure out how to do so much, im a linux-noob :/
Jul 14 07:31:16 <tmzt> irclog.netripper.com
Jul 14 07:31:21 <HebrewzHammer> you know more than me
Jul 14 07:31:29 <Decimation> hah, i doubt it ;)
Jul 14 07:39:57 <rwhitby> Decimation: http://ipkg.webos-internals.org/ is created ...
Jul 14 07:40:44 <Decimation> :o, great!
Jul 14 07:41:12 <rwhitby> we can start with a hand-crafted Packages file, and automate later.
Jul 14 07:42:19 <Decimation> well, here its 3:45 AM so i don't really wanna get started tonight.
Jul 14 07:45:17 <Decimation> oh my gosh rwhitby, this has actually gotten me really excited to get working on this :)
Jul 14 07:46:30 <HebrewzHammer> how would you get root privileges with winscp? i'm just trying to rename a file.
Jul 14 07:46:38 <rwhitby> Decimation: remember, release early, release often
Jul 14 07:46:57 <HebrewzHammer> Decimation: what are you working on?
Jul 14 07:47:05 <rwhitby> Decimation: put your code in the repo right from day one, before it even works.
Jul 14 07:47:34 <rwhitby> Decimation: then you will get helpful review of what you are doing from others here, preventing wasting your time
Jul 14 07:48:06 <Decimation> HebrewzHammer: idk, but i would like to.. i have problems with winscp
Jul 14 07:48:10 <rwhitby> don't be afraid that your code is not good enough.  any public code of any form is much better than perfect proprietary code - it's just a matter of time.
Jul 14 07:48:29 <Eguy> Anything interesting happenening? I am watching a movie :P
Jul 14 07:48:35 <Decimation> rwhitby: i just want some sign of life in my code, i want a small proof of concept before i distribute code
Jul 14 07:48:42 <rwhitby> Decimation: why?
Jul 14 07:49:14 <Decimation> i'm a perfectionist :)
Jul 14 07:49:26 <rwhitby> Decimation: if you put up a code skeleton into a team repo before you go to bed, you might find that people have filled out some of the functions for you when you awake.  you still get the credit as the main author.
Jul 14 07:49:48 <rwhitby> that's the multiplicative effect of open source
Jul 14 07:50:00 <rwhitby> perfection is the enemy of good
Jul 14 07:50:21 <Decimation> im not even sure where to start, its just so late :/
Jul 14 07:50:28 <Decimation> only thing keeping me up is my girlfriend.
Jul 14 07:50:31 <HebrewzHammer> or just so EARLY
Jul 14 07:50:43 <HebrewzHammer> i got my 2 hours
Jul 14 07:51:00 <rwhitby> Decimation: reread your last sentence :-)
Jul 14 07:51:29 <Decimation> lol, why? :)
Jul 14 07:52:02 * rwhitby whistles ...
Jul 14 07:52:07 <Eguy> :D
Jul 14 07:52:10 <Decimation> ;)
Jul 14 07:52:57 <rwhitby> Decimation: my advice: think of a name, get a repo created.  add a README file with your vision.  ask for help.
Jul 14 07:53:28 <tmzt> what do you mean host-based anyway
Jul 14 07:53:34 <Decimation> the name could be the hardest :/
Jul 14 07:53:35 <tmzt> what toolkit?
Jul 14 07:53:43 <rwhitby> tmzt: runs on the PC, not the Pre.
Jul 14 07:53:54 <tmzt> yeah
Jul 14 07:54:01 <tmzt> which is why I ask
Jul 14 07:54:08 <rwhitby> yep, good question.
Jul 14 07:54:12 <tmzt> only for Windows?
Jul 14 07:54:18 <rwhitby> hopefully not
Jul 14 07:54:25 <Decimation> thats all i can develop for, i know no other.
Jul 14 07:54:29 <rwhitby> there are any cross-platform gui toolkits
Jul 14 07:54:34 <Decimation> but im not the only developer, am i? :)
Jul 14 07:54:41 <rwhitby> Decimation: that's the attitude.
Jul 14 07:54:58 <rwhitby> s/are any/are many.
Jul 14 07:54:58 <tmzt> I would have to recommend Qt, gtk or wxwidgets
Jul 14 07:55:08 <rwhitby> I'd go wxwidgets myself
Jul 14 07:55:11 <tmzt> if you must Gtk# is that works with vs
Jul 14 07:55:12 <rwhitby> and python
Jul 14 07:55:23 <tmzt> yeah, probably
Jul 14 07:55:34 <rwhitby> can't go wrong with python and wxwidgets
Jul 14 07:55:48 <rwhitby> it'll work on anything, including eventually the Pre itself
Jul 14 07:55:52 <tmzt> well, it's hard to make an interface that people will want to use with it
Jul 14 07:56:03 <tmzt> then you have to install python
Jul 14 07:56:18 <rwhitby> freeze it as an exe
Jul 14 07:56:21 <tmzt> what does novacom need or have we replaced that yet?
Jul 14 07:56:22 <rwhitby> (for windows)
Jul 14 07:56:27 <rwhitby> tmzt: precomd
Jul 14 07:56:29 <tmzt> like bitpim?
Jul 14 07:56:41 <tmzt> precomd is c?
Jul 14 07:56:50 <rwhitby> on linux and macosx python will already be there
Jul 14 07:56:53 <tmzt> using the Palm driver?
Jul 14 07:56:55 <tmzt> yes
Jul 14 07:57:07 <tmzt> but not necessarily the wx package
Jul 14 07:57:12 <Decimation> all i can provide is a windows .exe.. lol, sorry :)
Jul 14 07:57:26 <rwhitby> tmzt: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/precomd/trees/master
Jul 14 07:57:27 <tmzt> using what?
Jul 14 07:57:31 <Eguy> Oh my god there is a lot of activity here
Jul 14 07:57:43 <Decimation> tmzt: hmm
Jul 14 07:57:48 <Decimation> what do you recommend? lol
Jul 14 07:58:11 <Decimation> might be c# based.
Jul 14 07:58:13 <rwhitby> Decimation: just make it cross-platform, otherwise you loose your best developers who will help you.
Jul 14 07:58:53 <Decimation> coding expierence and learning process in one, oh the joy :)
Jul 14 07:59:11 <tmzt> was that a cli subsystem app?
Jul 14 07:59:21 <tmzt> what do clients connect to it over?
Jul 14 07:59:44 <tmzt> oh, tcp?
Jul 14 08:00:37 <tmzt> Decimation: one way would be write the important parts as stl c++, then it can be either ported with winelib/winebuild or natively
Jul 14 08:00:48 <tmzt> abstract the ui as much as possible
Jul 14 08:01:12 <tmzt> especially if you are writing your own ipkg repo client
Jul 14 08:02:11 <rwhitby> tmzt: the app shouldn't need to look into ipkgs at all.
Jul 14 08:02:25 <tmzt> Packages
Jul 14 08:02:29 <rwhitby> all the info is in the Packages file, and then you just pass the ipkg directly to the install process on the pre
Jul 14 08:02:34 <tmzt> not even control data?
Jul 14 08:02:42 <rwhitby> yeah, you need a Packages file parser
Jul 14 08:03:08 <tmzt> if want to use Qt I would suggest looking a rockboxutil
Jul 14 08:03:36 <tmzt> it has a similar purpose and recently gained some online integration
Jul 14 08:04:31 <tmzt> I think it means your app has to be lgpl or gplv3 though
Jul 14 08:04:51 <tmzt> to support Windows and Mac
Jul 14 08:07:40 <tmzt> with static compilation you get a .exe you can distribute
Jul 14 08:17:39 <Decimation> you guys, i have a question maybe someone can answer
Jul 14 08:18:08 <Decimation> when i login via ssh
Jul 14 08:18:10 <Decimation> and try to type
Jul 14 08:18:13 <Decimation> sudo -i
Jul 14 08:18:14 <Decimation> i get this
Jul 14 08:18:21 <Decimation> >>> /opt/etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 33 <<<
Jul 14 08:18:21 <Decimation> sudo: parse error in /opt/etc/sudoers near line 33
Jul 14 08:18:21 <Decimation> sudo: no valid sudoers sources found, quitting
Jul 14 08:18:37 <HebrewzHammer> interesting, "sudo -i" never gave me any trouble
Jul 14 08:18:47 <tlz> bed timmmee
Jul 14 08:19:00 <HebrewzHammer> maybe some path didn't get setup right?
Jul 14 08:19:06 <HebrewzHammer> u double check the wiki?
Jul 14 08:19:10 <Decimation> i have no idea
Jul 14 08:19:13 <Decimation> i redid everything
Jul 14 08:19:15 <Decimation> step by step
Jul 14 08:19:22 <Decimation> made sure i did it all exactly as written
Jul 14 08:19:24 <HebrewzHammer> hmmmmm, wish I could help.
Jul 14 08:19:49 <HebrewzHammer> I rooted my pre a week or so ago and I can't remember all the steps I did, but sudo -i works for me
Jul 14 08:22:06 <HebrewzHammer> well, there's no one here so I guess no one will mind if I paste a few lines of code. Anyway, I believe this will fix your problem:
Jul 14 08:22:08 <HebrewzHammer> # install portion
Jul 14 08:22:08 <HebrewzHammer> ipkg-opt install sudo
Jul 14 08:22:08 <HebrewzHammer> # configure portion
Jul 14 08:22:08 <HebrewzHammer> chmod 640 /opt/etc/sudoers
Jul 14 08:22:08 <HebrewzHammer> echo "$MYUSER ALL=(ALL) ALL" >> /opt/etc/sudoers
Jul 14 08:22:10 <HebrewzHammer> chmod 440 /opt/etc/sudoers
Jul 14 08:22:53 <HebrewzHammer> (where MYUSER will be the user account you created)
Jul 14 08:23:13 <HebrewzHammer> Decimation: that work?
Jul 14 08:25:19 <Decimation> nope
Jul 14 08:25:22 <Decimation> have already done that
Jul 14 08:25:24 <Decimation> just did again.
Jul 14 08:25:35 <HebrewzHammer> well, i'm out of ideas. lol
Jul 14 08:25:41 <Decimation> lol, i have one more
Jul 14 08:25:42 <Decimation> bed
Jul 14 08:25:43 <Decimation> goodnight.
Jul 14 08:25:48 <HebrewzHammer> night
Jul 14 08:30:03 <rwhitby> Decimation: you have a syntax error in your /opt/etc/sudoers file.  double check for typos.
Jul 14 08:30:14 <rwhitby> Decimation: pastebin the file contents for someone else to check it
Jul 14 08:30:17 <HebrewzHammer> i believe he's gone
Jul 14 10:46:56 <alphakamp> http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/xmonad.hs_for_the_Palm_Pre/ interesting anyway...
Jul 14 11:34:03 <eddieck> consider me crazy. I'm ordering a Centro for $0.01 at Amazon with Verizon
Jul 14 11:34:10 <eddieck> want to play with VZ on the Pre
Jul 14 11:34:14 <eddieck> and they have the 30 day period in which I'll just cancel
Jul 14 11:34:37 <HebrewzHammer> VZ?
Jul 14 11:35:10 <eddieck> Verizon
Jul 14 11:35:12 <mikedg> got my shortcut app to load settings from the web :)
Jul 14 11:35:47 <HebrewzHammer> congrats
Jul 14 11:36:55 <psykoz> I think their real acronym is VZW :)
Jul 14 11:36:57 <HebrewzHammer> I had a working app, then I tried adding something...now it doesn't work anymore. The classic circle of programming
Jul 14 11:37:10 <psykoz> and man I feel sorry for Verizon users, did you see their latest app store policy for phones on their network
Jul 14 11:37:20 <mikedg> no
Jul 14 11:37:25 <mikedg> whats it like
Jul 14 11:37:40 <eddieck> yeah
Jul 14 11:37:42 <psykoz> Only Verizon can have an app store, anyone who has an app store can't include their app store application on the phone, users will have to manually download it (windows mobile for example)
Jul 14 11:37:44 <HebrewzHammer> yea, just read it on engadget
Jul 14 11:37:49 <HebrewzHammer> sux for them
Jul 14 11:37:54 <eddieck> I would never use VZW other than for things like this
Jul 14 11:38:06 <HebrewzHammer> I'm very happy I left VZW for The Pre on Sprint
Jul 14 11:38:11 <eddieck> and Apple will never release an iPhone with them if they continue with this. Apple would NEVER let someone take control of their prized App Store
Jul 14 11:38:12 <eddieck> :)
Jul 14 11:38:13 <eddieck> yeah
Jul 14 11:38:20 <eddieck> I left AT&T from an iPhone
Jul 14 11:38:32 <HebrewzHammer> nice
Jul 14 11:39:01 <eddieck> I think I'm gonna pay for my Centro with my Sprint card LOL
Jul 14 11:39:05 <psykoz> Verizon is trying to disguise it as "we want developers to submit their apps to us so it can be charged directly to customers bills" :)
Jul 14 11:39:09 <eddieck> LOL
Jul 14 11:39:19 <HebrewzHammer> its been fun. I've never used linux, CSS, Javascript, etc. and i've learned them all within a week.
Jul 14 11:39:22 <mikedg> thats awesome
Jul 14 11:39:25 <eddieck> and so they can cripple apps!
Jul 14 11:39:56 <HebrewzHammer> though I still can't get a hold on writing apps, or atleast apps that work
Jul 14 11:40:15 <mikedg> hebrew: how about you help me write shortcuts for my app :)
Jul 14 11:40:51 <eddieck> Amazon's terms scare me
Jul 14 11:41:01 <eddieck> says they can charge me $250 for disconnecting
Jul 14 11:41:06 <eddieck> yet Verizon's contract says 15 days to cancel w/o a fee
Jul 14 11:41:11 <eddieck> screw it, I'm going to VZW directly
Jul 14 11:41:31 <HebrewzHammer> mikedg: i wish I could help, but I really don't know what i'm doing.
Jul 14 11:41:32 <mikedg> eddieck: thats cause thye pass on part of their commision to you
Jul 14 11:41:44 <eddieck> I know, but they should offer a return policy IMO
Jul 14 11:41:53 <eddieck> unless it's covered under the same usual Amazon return terms
Jul 14 11:41:55 <mikedg> eddieck: they do
Jul 14 11:42:10 <mikedg> the $250 is supposed to be after 30 days and less than 6 months
Jul 14 11:42:16 <eddieck> not from what I'm seeing. VZW will let you cancel the contract within 15 days and return any equipment you ordered from them
Jul 14 11:42:18 <eddieck> hmm
Jul 14 11:42:23 <mikedg> although i canceled a plan in 30 days and kept the phone and they never charged me
Jul 14 11:42:28 <eddieck> meh, not gonna take the risk
Jul 14 11:42:40 <eddieck> really? they never charged you?
Jul 14 11:42:45 <eddieck> maybe I will take the risk :P
Jul 14 11:42:56 <mikedg> they charged me the initial, $100 that was the after instant rebates prices
Jul 14 11:43:04 <eddieck> this would be $0.01
Jul 14 11:43:05 <eddieck> for a centro
Jul 14 11:43:11 <mikedg> haha mine was a centro too
Jul 14 11:43:27 <mikedg> when it first came out, it was cheaper to pay the $250 fee
Jul 14 11:43:30 <mikedg> than to pay full price
Jul 14 11:43:33 <eddieck> I have actually never had a Palm phone before the Pre. I used to have Palm PDAs (m100 is sitting right here on my desk)
Jul 14 11:43:35 <mikedg> and then they just never charged me
Jul 14 11:43:38 <eddieck> lol
Jul 14 11:43:40 <eddieck> I'm gonna try it
Jul 14 11:43:58 <mikedg> i cant guarantee it wasnt a complete fluke
Jul 14 11:44:01 <eddieck> yeah
Jul 14 11:44:06 <eddieck> they have the legal right to do so
Jul 14 11:44:12 <mikedg> i do remember getting a credit for shipping because ups screwed up
Jul 14 11:44:27 <mikedg> maybe the person who gave me that credit scrwed something up with the expected $250 charge
Jul 14 11:44:37 <psykoz> I've had samsung's sph500 which ran palmOS, and then a treo 600
Jul 14 11:44:44 <mikedg> i had ordered i 2 days before xmas
Jul 14 11:44:46 <mikedg> with overnight shipping
Jul 14 11:44:53 <eddieck> hmm
Jul 14 11:44:54 <psykoz> I always hated how bulky my treo600 was, at least the samsung phone was capable of clamshelling shut
Jul 14 11:44:58 <mikedg> it shipped on time and then ups just didnt deliver it even though it was on truck for delivery
Jul 14 11:45:21 <eddieck> the $250 discount allows them to charge me that - it states "you agree to maintain service for 181 consecutive days". although I'm sure they'd allow a return
Jul 14 11:45:23 <eddieck> I'm gonna take the risk
Jul 14 11:45:50 <psykoz> the i500 was sorta nice but had drawbacks too, http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/zoom.php?p=187&g=1
Jul 14 11:46:43 <eddieck> order placed!
Jul 14 11:47:22 <mikedg> http://pastebin.com/m2b160dd7
Jul 14 11:47:32 <mikedg> anyone interested in writing shortcuts for me can take a look at that
Jul 14 11:47:36 <eddieck> and, time to return this pre..
Jul 14 11:47:52 <mikedg> basically all i need is for you to go through all the app-assistants and create stuff in that format that looks interesting
Jul 14 11:47:55 <eddieck> 3rd Pre and it still sucks (for build quality)..
Jul 14 11:47:55 <mikedg> :)
Jul 14 11:48:09 <eddieck> why does everyone use pastebin? pastie works better imo
Jul 14 11:48:22 <mikedg> my battery life is allll over the place with the pre, last night it lost %50 of battery :(
Jul 14 11:48:28 <eddieck> yeah
Jul 14 11:48:29 <mikedg> just sitting their on my nightstand
Jul 14 11:48:32 <eddieck> I have the same problem
Jul 14 11:48:38 <HebrewzHammer> they have a pastebin setup specifically for this irc channel
Jul 14 11:48:45 <mikedg> other nights ive had 3 percent
Jul 14 11:48:49 <eddieck> yeah
Jul 14 11:49:07 <eddieck> I like keeping it near my bed during the limited time I DO sleep, since it's not uncommon for me to wake up in the middle of the day (yes, day) to check things
Jul 14 11:50:01 <eddieck> I played "Shoot the iPhone" the other day with an old iPhone screen
Jul 14 11:50:18 <eddieck> I grabbed my BB pistol and fired at it a couple times, broke the glass of course :P
Jul 14 11:50:36 <mikedg> lol
Jul 14 11:53:32 <eddieck> does VZW allow you to make limited calls (i.e. 611 to activate service) on a non-activated phone?
Jul 14 12:16:28 <gordian> hey guys, any reason why i can't manage to get more than 60 wallpapers to display in my albums?
Jul 14 12:16:40 <gordian> i mean, i put about 90 in the wallpapers folder and only 60 turn up :/
Jul 14 12:17:03 <gordian> tried via WinSCP and USB transfer
Jul 14 12:17:10 <gordian> same result
Jul 14 12:18:42 <mikedg> ugh stupid title case isnt working
Jul 14 12:30:54 <mikedg> anyone got a suggestion for where to stick totals in my finance app
Jul 14 12:30:57 <mikedg> webos.mikedg.com
Jul 14 12:42:13 <pitcjd01> mikedg: You could put a status bar at the bottom of your app that displays the totals
Jul 14 12:42:25 <pitcjd01> mikedg: Take a look at http://www.freepoc.org/viewapp.php?id=58
Jul 14 13:03:07 <rwhitby> dent: yes, it should be possible to boot a raw openembedded-based distro on the Pre.
Jul 14 13:03:29 <rwhitby> (since Palm has based the webOS linux platform on openembedded)
Jul 14 13:09:14 <djk1> Got my google events to stop blanking the display by exporting (to backup) then deleting the calendar and importing. Wish there was an adgenda view.
Jul 14 13:19:39 <mikedg> djk: work on one :)
Jul 14 13:34:33 <DSouljah187> So has anyone figured out how to mute the damn text sounds in your ear while you are talking on the phone????
Jul 14 13:34:47 <mikewx> amen
Jul 14 13:36:02 <Lacutis> yes, i smashed the phone against the wall several times
Jul 14 13:36:59 <Lacutis> lol jk
Jul 14 13:37:36 <DSouljah187> I went through the "Changes Alert/Notification Sounds" and now the 7 second file I selected blares in my ear!  I'm sure this is a issue with everyone who changed the message sound
Jul 14 13:37:49 <mikedg> dont pick a 7 second sound
Jul 14 13:37:51 <mikedg> nub
Jul 14 13:38:54 <DSouljah187> then what ist he point in changing the sound then
Jul 14 13:39:04 <DSouljah187> If I wantede a 2 second ding I would have left it the same
Jul 14 13:39:42 <Lacutis> why are you worried about making it longer if you want it muted? seems kind of backwards to use a longer sound
Jul 14 13:40:03 <DSouljah187> I only want it muted while I'm on the phone
Jul 14 13:40:14 <DSouljah187> at least vib or something else
Jul 14 13:40:33 <Lacutis> Email palm with the issue
Jul 14 13:40:33 <DSouljah187> That makes no sense at all... who wants anything playing in their ear while on the phone
Jul 14 13:40:36 <Lacutis> make it known
Jul 14 13:41:23 <mikedg> people on android bitched and moaned about the notificaiton sounds not playing while they were on the phone
Jul 14 13:41:30 <Lacutis> LOL
Jul 14 13:41:38 <Lacutis> it doesn't really bother me
Jul 14 13:41:52 <DSouljah187> I will if I can get a direct email to them at not some support person that has 10 million other emails
Jul 14 13:42:09 <DSouljah187> It bothers me when the person on the other end can hear it too
Jul 14 13:42:21 <mikedg> thats awesome
Jul 14 13:42:51 <Lacutis> DSouljah187 i think you are worrying too much
Jul 14 13:42:57 <DSouljah187> haha
Jul 14 13:43:11 <DSouljah187> it's just nerve rackin
Jul 14 13:43:14 <Lacutis> it's well known that you can't do this
Jul 14 13:43:41 <alphakamp> so I hopped into #andriod and htc dream ran things as root to begin with also, as more apps came out.. each app began to have a user...
Jul 14 13:44:05 <Lacutis> ..
Jul 14 13:44:38 <mikedg> ?
Jul 14 13:45:12 <Lacutis> mikedg did you understand that?
Jul 14 13:45:12 <Lacutis> lol
Jul 14 13:45:28 <psykoz> Post it on their forums
Jul 14 13:45:28 <mikedg> alphajamps thing i didnt understand
Jul 14 13:45:41 <psykoz> they pay attention to each post on their forums
Jul 14 13:45:57 <alphakamp> mikedg: the pre executes all processes as root
Jul 14 13:46:07 <mikedg> ok
Jul 14 13:46:23 <psykoz> but seriously, make your notification ding very short, you dont' want that any more than 1-2 seconds, it's a "ping" alert, not a listen to your favorite hannah montana song alert
Jul 14 13:46:29 * Lacutis is trying to understand the point
Jul 14 13:46:34 <Lacutis> LOL
Jul 14 13:47:03 <Lacutis> i just left the default
Jul 14 13:47:18 <psykoz> I have mario hitting a block-coin ;)
Jul 14 13:47:23 <psykoz> and my calendar is the mario bros 1up sound
Jul 14 13:47:29 <psykoz> so you usually hear several coin dings and then a 1up
Jul 14 13:48:24 <Lacutis> haha
Jul 14 13:48:29 <Lacutis> where did you get that
Jul 14 13:49:00 <psykoz> just sampled them out of nintendo games I have
Jul 14 13:49:10 <Lacutis> o0
Jul 14 14:23:27 <mikedg> i still dont see the excitement in this "home screen" app
Jul 14 14:27:26 <Rick__> the intention is,eventually to replace the wallpaper with it.
Jul 14 14:27:32 <Rick__> active desktop.
Jul 14 14:27:35 <Rick__> active wallpaper.
Jul 14 14:27:46 <Rick__> but FIRST, he has to get it running as an ap.
Jul 14 14:27:59 <Rick__> now do you get it?
Jul 14 14:31:30 <Lacutis> i do!
Jul 14 14:32:28 <mikedg> i still dont see the excitement
Jul 14 14:32:33 <mikedg> lol
Jul 14 14:33:14 <drnull> Personally, I'd love to see the home screen app bound to the useless center button.  Then I could hit that button and get a quick summary, upcoming appts, new emails, etc.  Yeah, some of that's in the notification area, but a card dedicated to it seems like a good idea
Jul 14 14:33:36 <mikedg> yeah
Jul 14 14:33:40 <mikedg> the center button sucks
Jul 14 14:35:33 <mikedg> anyone poke around thos ejar files?
Jul 14 14:38:07 <mikedg> the hoem screen thing is stillll photoshopped?
Jul 14 14:41:34 <drnull> apparently not so much... http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/189712-my-home-screen-work-progress.html
Jul 14 14:41:58 <CIA-76> bzhou * r10449 optware/trunk/make/sudo.mk: sudo: strip manually
Jul 14 14:42:11 <mikedg> i cant believe people are donating money to this guy
Jul 14 14:42:12 <mikedg> sigh
Jul 14 14:46:06 <drnull> Why not?  It looks like quite a nice app.  Better than anything I've done by miles (which would be just simple lists and such)
Jul 14 14:49:58 <mikedg> shrug
Jul 14 14:51:15 <drnull> I just don't see the reason in belittling other development efforts. It might not float your boat, but expense tracking doesn't float mine.  That being said, its great that you're developing an app that MANY people will get use out of.
Jul 14 14:51:39 <mikedg> not sure theres any way to get at thedata from tasks and calendars from the same app :/
Jul 14 14:52:11 <mikedg> bah
Jul 14 14:52:35 <drnull> They're probably all just serviceRequest calls.
Jul 14 14:57:18 <Phrozen> Anyone know why the sudo package is not longer available via ipkg?
Jul 14 14:58:44 <Phrozen> nvm looks like it got readded just now :) could be a good reason
Jul 14 15:01:56 <Rick__> mikedg -- why would you not be able to open the two different sqlite tables?
Jul 14 15:02:22 <Rick__> I mean, I know it's not likely that there's hooks to simply query the app, but shouldn't you be able to open the db directly?
Jul 14 15:05:21 <mikedg> its available via service request i think
Jul 14 15:05:28 <mikedg> didnt think it was
Jul 14 15:05:39 <mikedg> cant open a db by name created by another app though
Jul 14 15:05:44 <mikedg> afaik
Jul 14 15:05:54 <mikedg> gotta run out for lunch bbiab
Jul 14 15:06:51 <drnull> right, you can't just open any db by name.  But have a look at app/models/calendar-luna-service.js in the calendar app. Tons of serviceRequest calls to palm://com.palm.calendar
Jul 14 15:08:39 <ron001> Goodmorning all.  I was wondering if someone might be able to help me with an error I received when Setting up ipkg-opt to access the Optware package feed
Jul 14 15:32:18 <freetim> no guarantees but we'll listen if you wish to describe error -- ?
Jul 14 15:32:55 <ron001> sure
Jul 14 15:33:36 <ron001> after step 9 "ipkg-opt update", I received the error "/bin/sh: .pkg-opt: not found"
Jul 14 15:34:11 <ron001> I made a printscreen of my entire dialog if its possible to send a file
Jul 14 15:34:12 <freetim> Did you have any err on step 7 like mkdir
Jul 14 15:34:54 <ron001> no
Jul 14 15:35:18 <freetim> but it sounds like it may be looking in /bin/sh where it should find it in /opt/bin   actually.  Did you export the PATH in step 8 which allows that ?
Jul 14 15:37:03 <ron001> I entered "export PATH=/opt/bin:$PATH"
Jul 14 15:37:28 <ron001> there was not response other than returning me to my root@castle:/# prompt
Jul 14 15:37:43 <freetim> that looks good to me. - thinking
Jul 14 15:37:55 <ron001> I shouldn't have made typos as I used cut and paste
Jul 14 15:38:15 <freetim> to check just type 'set' by itself on a line.  near the bottom you'll see PATH
Jul 14 15:38:26 <freetim> should look like this one PATH='/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin'
Jul 14 15:38:49 <freetim> er; whoops sorry i'm not root
Jul 14 15:40:07 <ron001> I can check that,  I will have to do it in about an hour though, as I am at work and cant keep my pre rooted all the time.  In about an hour.  Might u be around?
Jul 14 15:40:19 <freetim> well near the end of the path line you should see   :/sbin::/opt/bin:/opt/sbin'
Jul 14 15:40:24 <freetim> when as root that is.
Jul 14 15:40:50 <ron001> ok, I'll check that too
Jul 14 15:41:00 <ron001> is it a problem to repeat the entire process?
Jul 14 15:41:08 <freetim> ok i'll be here and others...
Jul 14 15:41:36 <freetim> not sure...does anyone here know ?
Jul 14 15:43:24 <ron001> Thanks for the help freetim, I have a client and will be back in a bit.  Sorry I have to be in and out.
Jul 14 15:50:45 <A2NY|pre> hi
Jul 14 15:53:22 <gordian> yo
Jul 14 15:53:25 <freetim> Yes no problem if i know something i'll assist as possible. Going back to my corner now
Jul 14 15:53:45 <gordian> any of you fellas experience any kind of limit on the number of wallpapers will show up in your album?
Jul 14 15:53:57 <gordian> strangely, i can only get 60 to show up
Jul 14 15:54:07 <A2NY> sexty ?
Jul 14 15:54:16 <gordian> i transferred ~90 to the device via webscp AND usb
Jul 14 15:54:21 <gordian> and still only 60 show up
Jul 14 15:54:59 <gordian> it's really putting a damper on the random wallpaper switching script
Jul 14 16:08:44 <ron001> hi freetim:  my path is a follows.  PATH='/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin::/opt/bin:/opt/sbin'
Jul 14 16:18:34 <djk1> Any know can you root the SDK webOS VM?
Jul 14 16:19:18 <Eguy-sleepy> Really?
Jul 14 16:19:28 <Eguy-sleepy> Was that a serious question?
Jul 14 16:19:46 <mikedg> lol
Jul 14 16:19:53 <mikedg> this is why people should be spanked for leaking the sdk
Jul 14 16:20:04 <Eguy-sleepy> beaten more like it :P
Jul 14 16:20:35 <Eguy-sleepy> Palm should track them down and smack them around
Jul 14 16:20:37 <Eguy-sleepy> :D
Jul 14 16:20:53 <mikedg> grrr service reques tis just doing nothing wtf
Jul 14 16:21:14 <mikedg> no failure no success :(
Jul 14 16:21:27 <djk1> sorry for thinking out loud
Jul 14 16:22:10 <ron001> found my problem.  I missed a rather important step tar xvzf /tmp/ipkg/data.tar.gz
Jul 14 16:23:59 <A2NY> djk1, you can gain access to root via novacom xD
Jul 14 16:24:13 <FreeTim3> @ron001 - good to hear
Jul 14 16:25:35 <mikedg> anyway to find a list of all services?
Jul 14 16:25:47 <Eguy-sleepy> ls -a
Jul 14 16:26:40 <mikedg> ls -la
Jul 14 16:26:56 <Eguy-sleepy> la la -la
Jul 14 16:27:24 <Eguy-sleepy> Whoohoo PreFarts has been upgraded, the world is at peace again
Jul 14 16:27:45 * mikedg gets back to work on his agenda screen
Jul 14 16:30:29 <Eguy-sleepy> Anyone see there is a hidden clock theme?
Jul 14 16:34:11 <mikedg> what would you like to see in an agenda screen, tasks with due dates of the next few days and calendar events too?
Jul 14 16:35:36 <FreeTim3> colors for those tasks corresponding to the set priority of task
Jul 14 16:35:48 <Eguy-sleepy> Isn't someone already making one?
Jul 14 16:36:11 <mikedg> that home screen thing?
Jul 14 16:36:17 <Eguy-sleepy> Si
Jul 14 16:36:19 <mikedg> not fast enough
Jul 14 16:36:31 <Eguy-sleepy> Well, it is alpha
Jul 14 16:38:33 <mikedg> what about a synergy mod for tasks?
Jul 14 16:38:51 <mikedg> that dump the tasks in calendar as read only all day events?
Jul 14 16:39:20 <Eguy-sleepy> ugh Syndergy
Jul 14 16:39:28 <Eguy-sleepy> Synergy*
Jul 14 16:42:19 <sugardave|work> gordian: how many wallpapers do you need? :D
Jul 14 16:43:09 <gordian> i suppose everyone only *needs* 1
Jul 14 16:43:27 <gordian> but i've taken the time to rig for random wallpaper switching
Jul 14 16:43:27 <Eguy-sleepy> pfft... the Pre ads are the worst in history
Jul 14 16:43:34 <gordian> so i'd love to have a nice collection
Jul 14 16:43:43 <gordian> found about 90 landscapes i really enjoy
Jul 14 16:44:08 <gordian> how many i "need" shouldn't factor into the equation though imho
Jul 14 16:44:11 * sugardave|work hasn't looked at it, but there may be a limiter in the script that does the switching/reading?
Jul 14 16:44:35 <gordian> if i want to fill 6gb worth of wallpaper i should be able to
Jul 14 16:44:50 <gordian> well it was weird, b/c once it showed 72 images in the album
Jul 14 16:44:56 <sugardave|work> if so, yet another cron job could handle renaming "sets of 60" wallpapers
Jul 14 16:45:02 <gordian> so i recopied all the pics
Jul 14 16:45:26 <gordian> i haven't examined the script too closely myself
Jul 14 16:45:46 <gordian> ...but will do so now
Jul 14 16:46:19 <Phrozen> I love the new clock, and just uncommenting 2 lines and changing two i got the Day & Date in it as well :)
Jul 14 16:46:33 <Eguy-sleepy> eh?? which ones?
Jul 14 16:46:35 <sugardave|work> mikedg, yes we need Google task synergy...I wondered if the current tasks app could be modified to do it
Jul 14 16:46:41 <Phrozen> Palm really needs to just stop commenting stuff out
Jul 14 16:46:46 <Eguy-sleepy> Amen
Jul 14 16:47:12 <sugardave|work> woohoo, it's naplunch time
Jul 14 16:47:13 <Phrozen> Eguy: /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.clock/themes/manualanalog/manualanalog-clock.html
Jul 14 16:47:26 <Phrozen> remove the <!-- and --> from line 3 & 4
Jul 14 16:47:37 <gordian> http://predev.wikidot.com/random-wallpaper-switching if anyone else wants to have a gander
Jul 14 16:47:51 <drnull> mikedg: only ways I know of to get list of services.  1) SDK docs 2) look at model directories for -service.js files and see what serviceRequests are called 3) examine LunaSysMgr to see if you can find strings that look like services 4) decompile the *Service.class files from the jars files in /usr/lib/luna/java to see what is exposed.
Jul 14 16:47:52 <Eguy-sleepy> Did you put the results on the wiki?
Jul 14 16:48:07 <Phrozen> in manualanalog-clock-functions.js towards the bottom uncomment the two lines for formatting date
Jul 14 16:48:12 <Phrozen> I'm going to in a minute
Jul 14 16:48:27 <mikedg> drnull: sdk docs are limited to the stuff they want you to use
Jul 14 16:48:33 <Phrozen> and doesnt look like there is a page might as well create it real quick.
Jul 14 16:48:46 <mikedg> but thanks for the other suggestions
Jul 14 16:49:07 <drnull> #4 is probably the most fun and rewarding  :)
Jul 14 16:49:14 <mikedg> yeah
Jul 14 16:49:55 <mikedg> trying to figure out if i can query the tasks service to only return tasks with due date in certain range
Jul 14 16:49:58 <Eguy-sleepy> You can put it on http://predev.wikidot.com/stock-application-mods
Jul 14 16:50:45 <Phrozen> good idea :)
Jul 14 16:50:57 <Eguy-sleepy> You might want to include this: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192411-nice-analog-clock-face-hidden-feature-requires-root-access.html
Jul 14 16:51:12 <Eguy-sleepy> Instead of that stupid silver theme :)
Jul 14 16:51:24 <Phrozen> Yup already sitting on his page :)
Jul 14 16:51:58 <Eguy-sleepy> I still don't know why Palm wrote the code to all this stuff and just commented out all these useful features
Jul 14 16:53:06 <mikedg> not tested, not to specs
Jul 14 16:53:16 <summatusmentis> "users won't want it"
Jul 14 17:02:42 <Phrozen> updated it
Jul 14 17:03:41 <Eguy-sleepy> I was looking at the digital one to try and make it flip like the winmo one
Jul 14 17:03:56 <Phrozen> Yeah i remember that
Jul 14 17:03:57 <Eguy-sleepy> Like a calendar
Jul 14 17:04:12 <Eguy-sleepy> I failed at finding anything but may have overlooked it
Jul 14 17:04:18 <Phrozen> if anyone wants to fix any of my modificatiosn go at it, i've gotta go fix a computer so i gotta put the pre down :9
Jul 14 17:04:29 <Phrozen> well if you can do what the new clock is it might be possible.
Jul 14 17:04:49 <Phrozen> it has some method of figuring out how to kinda do a "tick" on the 2nd hand
Jul 14 17:04:53 <Phrozen> second rather then 2nd
Jul 14 17:05:06 <Eguy-sleepy> Ah yes, that would be cool
Jul 14 17:09:25 <drnull> mikedg: I really think the best you can do so far (judging by what is exposed in tasks.jar:TasksService.class) is to take the output from luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.tasks/getTasks '{}' and just parse out the dueDates that are in your range yourself.
Jul 14 17:10:06 <Eguy-sleepy> http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/14/apples-app-store-crosses-the-1-5-billion-download-mark/ :(
Jul 14 17:10:28 <summatusmentis> surprised?
Jul 14 17:10:43 <Eguy-sleepy> Nope, dissappointed
Jul 14 17:11:40 <bpadalino|work> why disappointed ?
Jul 14 17:12:04 <Eguy-sleepy> That Palm has only 30 apps
Jul 14 17:12:22 <bpadalino|work> that is very true
Jul 14 17:12:32 <Eguy-sleepy> And there are more homebrew ones than "official" apps :)
Jul 14 17:12:45 <bpadalino|work> that should be encouraging, not disappointing
Jul 14 17:12:56 <Eguy-sleepy> It's good yes, I use them all the time
Jul 14 17:13:11 <Eguy-sleepy> Even the news app from rough cuts
Jul 14 17:13:30 <Eguy-sleepy> Although mine does not refresh all the time
Jul 14 17:14:48 <drnull> Remind me, how many apps did the iPhone have 1 month in?  :)
Jul 14 17:15:24 <Eguy-sleepy> 1,000,334,223,355,554,764
Jul 14 17:15:31 <bpadalino|work> correct
Jul 14 17:16:13 <Eguy-sleepy> 1,000,334,223,355,554,765 if you cant iFart
Jul 14 17:16:19 <Eguy-sleepy> count*
Jul 14 17:18:03 <mikedg> 5 apps if you excllude all fart apps
Jul 14 17:22:44 <gordian> i wish i could mod my pre to be able to set custom reminders like palmOS
Jul 14 17:23:19 <gordian> i.e., have a 100% choosable number followed by a selectable time measurement
Jul 14 17:23:32 <gordian> the reminder options are not particularly pleasing
Jul 14 17:24:11 <gordian> my 16 hr reminders for things i need to do the next day are imperative!!
Jul 14 17:31:28 <Eguy-sleepy> I wish my Pre cooked breakfast for me
Jul 14 17:31:41 <Eguy-sleepy> Drove me to work
Jul 14 17:31:49 <Eguy-sleepy> Tucked me into bed at night
Jul 14 17:36:13 <tlz> urs doesnt do that?
Jul 14 17:36:15 <tlz> mine does
Jul 14 17:36:27 <Eguy-sleepy> Mine only cooks dinner for me
Jul 14 17:36:46 <Eguy-sleepy> Return?
Jul 14 17:37:10 <mikedg> lolzllepozzle
Jul 14 17:37:17 <tlz> k, off to work!
Jul 14 17:37:24 <Eguy-sleepy> same here
Jul 14 17:46:53 <sugardave|work> mine has the "morning birdsong" feature...it's awesome
Jul 14 17:59:44 <Keegs> random q: is there an easy way to get a list of the settable properties (ie valid arguments for the setProperty method) on a service? im specifically interested in the power and display services
Jul 14 18:00:26 <FreeTim3> Some of them are called out ont he wiki page       /processor
Jul 14 18:00:36 <FreeTim3> at least for the power ones.
Jul 14 18:04:13 <Decimation> howdy guys.
Jul 14 18:11:25 <phrough> question: is it possible to use the webOS doctor even if the phone isn't bricked?
Jul 14 18:11:32 <Keegs> FreeTime3: thanks for the lead. I've looked around, and noticed on http://predev.wikidot.com/changing-the-turn-off-after-x-time-in-the-palm-pre, the onWhenConnected property is set. What's interesting is that property doesn't appear to be referenced anywhere in palm's code, so im curious how it was discovered
Jul 14 18:12:43 <FreeTim3> It's possible someone curious was simply poking through code of the Beast.  :)
Jul 14 18:15:58 <phrough> My phone is not bricked, and WebOS doctor doesn't seem to recognize it when I plug it in via USB. Was wondering if this is the expected behavior, or if some of the things I've installed to root the pre are possibly interfering.
Jul 14 18:18:38 <Keegs> FreeTim3 - my thoughts, but again, I don't see this property used anywhere else... im wondering what other properties may be available if there's some sort of introspection ability
Jul 14 18:19:05 <drnull> Keegs: I put that in.  iirc, I just did strings LunaSysMgr, and was poking through the results
Jul 14 18:19:53 <Keegs> drnull: gotcha. i'll do the same then
Jul 14 18:27:28 <drnull> Keegs: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.preferences/appProperties/GetKeys '{"appId": "com.palm.display"}'
Jul 14 18:27:45 <drnull> I don't know if that gets properties that have never been set.
Jul 14 18:31:00 <FreeTim3> @drnull   Thanks - you rule :)
Jul 14 18:31:22 <drnull> well, it gets you nada for com.palm.power.  Sorry.  :)
Jul 14 18:31:40 <drnull> And GetAll is better than GetKeys
Jul 14 18:46:47 <CIA-76> jomaster * r10450 optware/trunk/make/erl-ejabberd.mk: add missing expat-stage
Jul 14 18:55:29 <Decimation> hii guys.
Jul 14 18:57:38 <Rick__> hi Decimation
Jul 14 18:57:46 <Rick__> saw your chat last night in the logs.
Jul 14 18:57:52 <Rick__> Glad I was able to hook you up.
Jul 14 18:59:47 <Rick__> kinda slow just now.  rwhitby is gmt-9:30 (australia) so it's just now 5am Wed morning for him.  He'll show up in about 3 hours.....
Jul 14 18:59:55 <Rick__> and I'm leaving for the airport.
Jul 14 19:00:52 <Rick__> but there are people around.
Jul 14 19:22:43 <destinal> hey
Jul 14 20:10:37 <wirelessdreamer> anyone have usb host working yet?
Jul 14 20:27:22 <destinal> wirelessdreamer: haven't heard of it if so
Jul 14 20:54:29 <Decimation> hey everyone
Jul 14 20:54:30 <Decimation> im back
Jul 14 20:55:03 <Phrozen> Hmm this is a little odd for palm
Jul 14 20:55:05 <Phrozen> (payload.name == "wall" || payload.name == "puck")
Jul 14 20:55:13 <Phrozen> so touchstone is a puck not anything else :)
Jul 14 20:55:57 <christophercomp> hello everyone
Jul 14 20:57:12 <destinal> Decimation: hey
Jul 14 20:58:28 <Keegs> phrozen: yea, the terminology used throughout the code is not always consistent. i'm seeing nicknames / alternate names for quite a few things
Jul 14 20:58:52 <bpadalino|work> infighting at palm over terms!
Jul 14 20:59:03 <Keegs> puck1.png and puck2.png are touchstone images, even
Jul 14 20:59:26 <Phrozen> Keegs: yeah i am trying to see if there is a way to turn off the lock on the screen and make it load up somethign simple like the clock
Jul 14 21:00:52 <Decimation> destinal: whats up?
Jul 14 21:01:04 <Phrozen> most of the stuff i see in the code is kinda funny how they reference it :)
Jul 14 21:01:44 <Keegs> phrozen: im looking at a similar task. when the pre is on the touchstone im my car i'd rather it not lock
Jul 14 21:01:45 <destinal> Decimation: not much, working and dreaming up pre apps and custom hw accessories
Jul 14 21:01:59 <Keegs> the lock screen is somehow embedded in the LunaSysMgr binary
Jul 14 21:02:28 <Phrozen> Keegs: i agree, its not needing to be locked if i'm 5inchs away
Jul 14 21:02:57 <Phrozen> if i hit the power button i rather it lock, then when im charging
Jul 14 21:09:29 <Decimation> destinal: dream away, thats how the magic happens :)
Jul 14 21:12:07 <wirelessdreamer> destinal: thanks
Jul 14 21:12:45 <tehnoir> I have a really noob question if somebody wouldn't mind helping me out.
Jul 14 21:13:15 <tehnoir> When editing files, I don't seem to be able to view the line numbers or use :gg to go straight to a particular line.
Jul 14 21:13:47 <tehnoir> When the wiki mentinos which lines to edit, but does not say what's on the line so I can't search for it, what's the best way to get to the line that I need to edit?
Jul 14 21:14:16 <bpadalino|work> :<number>
Jul 14 21:14:51 <bpadalino|work> i thought that's what i used before
Jul 14 21:15:13 <destinal> wirelessdreamer: I orders a micro usb A male to standard female
Jul 14 21:15:19 <tehnoir> Wow...I'm an idiot.
Jul 14 21:15:27 <tehnoir> Thank you so much, bpadalino.
Jul 14 21:15:34 <destinal> wirelessdreamer: which coupled with the right driver should make usb OTG work, so I'm told
Jul 14 21:15:59 <bpadalino|work> tehnoir, no problem
Jul 14 21:16:24 <FreeTim3> @technoir  you can type 440 G  to make vi go to line 440
Jul 14 21:16:58 <tehnoir> Ah, nifty.
Jul 14 21:17:19 <tehnoir> I definitely need to brush up on my vi skills. I've been scraping by with basic commands for too long now.
Jul 14 21:17:32 <wirelessdreamer> I'm very interested to know if it works. I've got an adapter still from a zaurus, haven't picked up a pre yet, if host usb works is almost my deciding factor
Jul 14 21:17:55 <wirelessdreamer> I saw rumor that the nokia n900 may be coming to tmobile
Jul 14 21:18:09 <wirelessdreamer> so i'm holding out a bit
Jul 14 21:19:15 <destinal> wirelessdreamer: yeah  someone I forget who had identified that the chipset is OTG capable and has a driver in linux kernel mainline but not on pre normally
Jul 14 21:19:44 <destinal> so we'll see
Jul 14 21:20:37 <rwhitby> morning
Jul 14 21:21:56 <destinal> rwhitby: morning
Jul 14 21:22:51 <Decimation> good morning rwhitby :)
Jul 14 21:50:47 <sushi2> n00b question: best way to trigger .wav file from within an app (not a script)?
Jul 14 22:00:36 <blau-mikedg> hmm
Jul 14 22:13:54 <sushi2> blau-mikedg: do you know how one can trigger a .wav file (without launching the audio player) within an app? I can trigger via the command line: aplay -q [filename]
Jul 14 22:14:12 <blau-mikedg> sushi, havent tried anything yet but ill take a quick look
Jul 14 22:15:32 <sushi2> or if you can point me to where to look - the sdk has an example, but it uses the audio app
Jul 14 22:16:12 <destinal> rwhitby: remember that PG stuff?  Palm seems to use something called Piranha graphics library.
Jul 14 22:16:22 <destinal> looks like an in house thing
Jul 14 22:16:35 <rwhitby> ah, Piranha Graphics
Jul 14 22:16:42 <rwhitby> never heard of it ;-)
Jul 14 22:16:46 <destinal> a vector graphics lib
Jul 14 22:17:01 <destinal> lots of really useful functions there
Jul 14 22:17:28 <destinal> that's also why we're missing headers with #include <P*.h>
Jul 14 22:17:47 <destinal>  -  < xyz >   = outside libs
Jul 14 22:17:51 <destinal> err headers
Jul 14 22:17:56 <rwhitby> ok, so they're keeping that internal?
Jul 14 22:18:05 <rwhitby> or just forgot to include it?
Jul 14 22:18:09 <destinal> not sure yet
Jul 14 22:18:11 <destinal> have to ask
Jul 14 22:18:29 <destinal> at least they should have to include the headers needed to make the OSS stuff compile I'd imagine
Jul 14 22:19:19 <destinal> I've been looking for a library to draw to our screen buffer... I think I may have found just the one. :)
Jul 14 22:19:55 <blau-mikedg> grr ran into another issue wtf
Jul 14 22:20:05 <blau-mikedg> gimme a few more mins to look up sound stuff
Jul 14 22:20:20 <sushi2> blau-mikedg: no hurry
Jul 14 22:20:34 <blau-mikedg> stupid database isnt getting created grr
Jul 14 22:21:02 <destinal> rwhitby: Luna also links against it
Jul 14 22:22:34 * blau-mikedg makes sad face
Jul 14 22:26:42 <blau-mikedg> i try a transaction that fail, then the db object is invalid wtf
Jul 14 22:30:21 <blau-mikedg> got it, forgot to bind a method variable
Jul 14 22:30:31 <blau-mikedg> lame, cause i swear it worked on the device but not palm host
Jul 14 22:38:22 <sushi2> blau-mikedg: hehe
Jul 14 22:38:29 <aryr100> hello all
Jul 14 22:39:49 <aryr100> any web links that you guys like ?
Jul 14 22:40:22 <blau-mikedg> cant find the audio thing i thought i knew about
Jul 14 22:40:26 <blau-mikedg> :/
Jul 14 22:54:44 <rwhitby> is there anyone here who is good at graphics, and would like to be famous for creating the webos-internals logo?
Jul 14 22:58:48 <sushi2> that was interesting
Jul 14 23:08:24 <LESKA> I'm a linux user attempting to use the webos-internals novacom to root my pre; I access the device terminal properly, have UID 0 (# prompt) but don't actually have root access (can't modify /usr/palm/applications, /etc/palm/luna.conf, etc). What am I doing wrong?
Jul 14 23:12:44 <destinal> LESKA: you do have root access.   you've just got a read-only root filesystem
Jul 14 23:13:09 <destinal> LESKA: try -    mount -o remount,rw /
Jul 14 23:15:57 <LESKA> haha right you are, thanks much :)
Jul 14 23:16:14 <destinal> LESKA: you're welcome :)
Jul 14 23:22:17 <HebrewzHammer> anyone here that can grant me perission to the wiki?
Jul 14 23:24:10 <destinal> msg'd
Jul 14 23:45:14 <Decimation> rwhitby: hey!
Jul 14 23:45:50 <sushi2> destinal: any clue on where to look to trigger a .wav file within an application (such as an assistant) without using the audio player?
Jul 14 23:45:58 <destinal> hmmm
Jul 14 23:46:56 <sushi2>  this.controller.serviceRequest('palm://com.palm.audio/systemsounds', {
Jul 14 23:46:58 <sushi2>             method:"playFeedback",
Jul 14 23:47:00 <sushi2>             parameters:{ name: '0' }
Jul 14 23:47:01 <sushi2>         });
Jul 14 23:47:09 <sushi2> but can I tell it to trigger other audio files?
Jul 14 23:50:38 <destinal> what about changing the name parameter
Jul 14 23:50:55 <sushi2> well, I think you can change it, but what does it reference?
Jul 14 23:51:06 <sushi2> for example, the camera uses name: 'shutter'
Jul 14 23:53:29 <showergel> does anyone know if it's possible to access alsa (via amixer or whatever) and set equalizer preferences?
Jul 14 23:53:41 <destinal> sushi2: ls /usr/share/systemsounds
Jul 14 23:53:52 <Decimation> i have vb.net, c++, and c# knowledge, is whatever pre apps are coded in a like at all?
Jul 14 23:54:19 <LESKA> pre apps are straight js/html/css, so no, not really
Jul 14 23:54:21 <sushi2> destinal: so if I drop a file in there, it would trigger the proper .pcm?
Jul 14 23:54:32 <destinal> sushi2: good question.  why not try it? :)
Jul 14 23:54:40 <destinal> sushi2: I have never attempted that
Jul 14 23:54:44 <sushi2> destinal: just what I was thinking ;)
Jul 14 23:55:50 <Jack__> hi
Jul 14 23:55:53 <sushi2> one more question: if I modify an assistant, do I have to reboot to note the change?
Jul 14 23:55:59 <LESKA> Anyone experimented with adding more robust terminal text editors? The vi is horribly underfeatured :/
Jul 14 23:56:10 <destinal> sushi2: no, just rescan
Jul 14 23:56:33 <destinal> LESKA: that's because it's busybox vi
Jul 14 23:56:48 <destinal> LESKA:  ipkg-opt install vim
Jul 14 23:57:33 <Jack__> member:destinal: what is vim
Jul 14 23:57:44 <destinal> vi improved
Jul 14 23:58:17 <Jack__> cool deal
Jul 14 23:59:06 <destinal> http://www.vim.org/about.php
Jul 14 23:59:25 <LESKA> destinal: run this command in pre terminal? (I'm not really familiar with the ipkg package manager)
Jul 14 23:59:41 <destinal> LESKA: you need to have installed optware per the instructions on the wiki first
Jul 14 23:59:49 <LESKA> ah, kk
Jul 15 00:00:12 <destinal> then you can run    "ipkg-opt install vim"  without the quotes at a shell prompt
Jul 15 00:00:12 <LESKA> I'll read a bit more before I bug you again :)
Jul 15 00:02:42 <sushi2> destinal: Okay, if you substitute the name of the .pcm then it will trigger that file
Jul 15 00:02:52 <destinal> sushi2: cool
Jul 15 00:02:53 <sushi2> but it won't trigger new files in that directory
Jul 15 00:03:01 <sushi2> (like a copy of an existing one)
Jul 15 00:03:03 <destinal> sushi2: you tried copying one to another name?
Jul 15 00:03:06 <sushi2> perhaps a reboot?
Jul 15 00:03:14 <destinal> yeah, try that
Jul 15 00:03:29 <destinal> it may be a list cached at the startup of the service
Jul 15 00:06:50 <sushi2> yep
Jul 15 00:07:14 <sushi2> now to see if it can trigger files other than .pcm
Jul 15 00:08:20 <destinal> well you should be able to make your own pcm's, worst case
Jul 15 00:08:30 <destinal> with sox or something
Jul 15 00:08:40 <sushi2> exactly
Jul 15 00:08:49 <sushi2> ah - it can trigger .wav files
Jul 15 00:08:52 <sushi2> excellente
Jul 15 00:08:52 <destinal> cool
Jul 15 00:08:59 <sushi2> thanks for the help
Jul 15 00:09:05 <destinal> did you have to reboot to get it to take the new name though?
Jul 15 00:09:13 <sushi2> yes
Jul 15 00:09:22 <sushi2> would be nice to refresh that list without reboot
Jul 15 00:09:25 <destinal> probably you could restart the service
Jul 15 00:09:56 <Jack__> this is off topic on your guy's convo but i want to throw it out there. has anyone figured out ow to keep wifi from turning off when pre is in sleep with screen off or any idea of  a rout for that
Jul 15 00:10:24 <Jack__> considering the wifi works when phone goes to sleep while charging indicates there is a way to keep wifi going when a sleep i believe
Jul 15 00:10:28 <destinal> sushi2: try initctl stop audiod; initctl st'art audiod
Jul 15 00:10:32 <destinal> start
Jul 15 00:10:47 <destinal> os pkill -1 audiod   (to send HUP)
Jul 15 00:10:52 <destinal> or pkill -1 audiod
Jul 15 00:11:26 <sushi2> destinal: yeah - that would probably work, let me try
Jul 15 00:12:03 <Jack__> perhaps a trick making wifi manager think phone is charging when not plugged in
Jul 15 00:12:54 <destinal> Jack__: why not just stop it from going to sleep?
Jul 15 00:13:31 <sushi2> destinal: it's not audiod
Jul 15 00:13:37 <destinal> you could run:  initctl stop powerd     -- keep in mind battery life will suffer
Jul 15 00:14:07 <destinal> sushi2: it's definitely audiod that's listening on the com.palm.audio bus
Jul 15 00:14:15 <Jack__> battery life becomes an issue at that point destinal
Jul 15 00:14:19 <destinal> dbus-util  --list|grep -i audio
Jul 15 00:14:21 <sushi2> it's pulseaudio
Jul 15 00:14:47 <Jack__> screen being on constant is a major drain
Jul 15 00:15:08 <destinal> Jack__: well I think powerd powers off a lot of things at once
Jul 15 00:15:12 <destinal> wifi included
Jul 15 00:15:41 <Jack__> what do you mean by powered?
Jul 15 00:16:05 <destinal> root@castle:/usr# ps auxw|grep powerd
Jul 15 00:16:05 <destinal> root     22789  9.0  1.1  22992  2876 ?        Ssl  18:16   0:00 /usr/sbin/powerd
Jul 15 00:16:16 <destinal> you can stop it with initctl stop powerd   for instance
Jul 15 00:16:23 <sushi2> it's also important to note that it seems to favor .pcm files
Jul 15 00:16:29 <destinal> it's what's in charge of going into power save mode
Jul 15 00:16:36 <sushi2> if you have a .pcm and a .wav of the same file name, it will trigger the .pcm
Jul 15 00:17:14 <Jack__> hum... is there a possibility to edit the code to not power off wifi?
Jul 15 00:17:21 <destinal> sushi2: so you can pkill -1 pulseaudio to get it to pick up new names, for sure?
Jul 15 00:17:36 <sushi2> I did a initctl start/stop
Jul 15 00:17:41 <sushi2> so it should be the same
Jul 15 00:17:49 <destinal> do you mind trying it?
Jul 15 00:17:52 <sushi2> sure
Jul 15 00:18:38 <WillJitsu> is it possible to ssh to my rooted Pre over USB? if so, what address would I put into putty?
Jul 15 00:18:49 <sushi2> pkill -1 pulseaudio  (doesn't work)
Jul 15 00:20:28 <destinal> pkill -TERM pulseaudio   should as upstart will restart it
Jul 15 00:20:59 <destinal> or just "pkill pulseaudio"
Jul 15 00:21:12 <sushi2> that kills all sounds
Jul 15 00:21:21 <sushi2> even though the service restarted
Jul 15 00:21:31 <destinal> ok try stop start again
Jul 15 00:21:58 <sushi2> that reset it
Jul 15 00:22:02 <sushi2> I just used:
Jul 15 00:22:03 <destinal> ok stop start wins
Jul 15 00:22:12 <sushi2> initctl stop pulseaudio; initctl start pulseaudio
Jul 15 00:22:21 <destinal> cool
Jul 15 00:22:22 <sushi2> ftw
Jul 15 00:22:39 <sushi2> you want to update the wiki with our epic findings? ;)
Jul 15 00:23:27 <destinal> hmm, where would it go?
Jul 15 00:24:20 <sushi2> new item under coding triggering system sounds?
Jul 15 00:24:28 <sushi2> I couldn't find anything in there at all on this
Jul 15 00:25:23 <destinal> yeah perhaps just system-sounds
Jul 15 00:25:35 <sushi2> I agree
Jul 15 00:28:39 <Keegs> looking in the LunaSysMgr binary, i see method signatures for a LockWindow class... like void LockWindow::lock(bool)
Jul 15 00:28:44 <Keegs> clearly related to the lock screen
Jul 15 00:29:10 <Keegs> q is (im not a c / system programmer) is there a way to invoke those externally?
Jul 15 00:30:14 <Keegs> ive looked at the liblunaservice shared objects and don't see obvious hooks
Jul 15 00:36:28 <sushi2> destinal: just to confirm that you were going to add those details to the wiki
Jul 15 00:36:42 <destinal> yes
Jul 15 00:36:43 <destinal> I am
Jul 15 00:36:47 <destinal> command-line version
Jul 15 00:36:48 <destinal> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.display/control/setProperty '{"onWhenConnected":true}'
Jul 15 00:36:51 <destinal> err dog
Jul 15 00:37:01 <destinal> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.audio/systemsounds/playFeedback '{"name":"shutter"}'
Jul 15 00:37:14 <destinal> the second one
Jul 15 00:37:32 <sushi2> destinal: Okay - just didn't want to drop the ball and not post the details if you were going to -thx
Jul 15 00:38:02 <destinal> you can play sounds from the command line with that
Jul 15 00:40:39 <sushi2> gotcha - I had been using aplay -q [filename]
Jul 15 00:40:46 <sushi2> but it doesn't work properly on all files
Jul 15 00:48:46 <bobwashere> how do you update a list with json data from an ajax request?
Jul 15 00:55:39 <Decimation> hey guys
Jul 15 00:58:04 <bobwashere> how do you update a list with json data from an ajax request?
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