**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 15 02:59:57 2009 Jul 15 03:11:32 Hello everyone. Has anyone else had a problem with the browser downloads patch? Jul 15 03:11:45 PreHero: yep, it's broken Jul 15 03:11:55 hopefully someone who has a Pre can fix it. Jul 15 03:12:03 something about malformed patch at line 125? Jul 15 03:13:23 i do have a pre, but until got it, i had never really dug deep into linux Jul 15 03:14:05 does anywhere list what the fix is for the patch? like just that line being broken and can be manually changed? Jul 15 03:20:33 rwhitby, did my push fail or did you rollback the repo? Jul 15 03:20:54 Sloloem: I haven't reverted anything. Jul 15 03:21:00 bzhou * r10451 optware/trunk/make/py-sqlalchemy.mk: py-sqlalchemy: 0.5.4p2 -> 0.5.5 Jul 15 03:23:00 I had to restore my pre, was there anything we did for the openssh install special to make it only exist as a client? Jul 15 03:24:53 got a question, just rooted my palm, but for some reason it is not accepting my password at the ssh level... how do I change or reset the password Jul 15 03:26:27 DL_, simple answer is mount / as rw and run the passwd command. Which SSH did you pick and which user are you trying to login as? Jul 15 03:28:08 dropbear Jul 15 03:28:42 and I'm trying to login as the name I selected as 'preuser' Jul 15 03:29:54 I'm using putty to set up the ssh at port 222 Jul 15 03:34:42 I'd make sure the user existed in /etc/passwd and then do `mount -o remount,rw /` and `passwd preuser` as root from the telnet session. Just to be sure. Jul 15 03:34:53 would someone mind giving me a hint as to uninstall an ipk? Jul 15 03:35:04 ipkg-opt remove package Jul 15 03:35:33 that's what I tried, but alas, it tells me "No packages removed. Nothing to be done Successfully terminated." Jul 15 03:35:52 if it's a mojo app, you could also just delete the folder from /var/palm/applications Jul 15 03:36:04 gotcha Jul 15 03:36:05 thanks sloloem... if I could get into the pre, past it asking for the password, I'd check.... Jul 15 03:36:09 what did you type to INSTALL the package.... Jul 15 03:36:14 it is under /var/palm/applications Jul 15 03:36:23 ok, then you delete it from there... Jul 15 03:36:37 ipkg install [app] Jul 15 03:36:39 that's the wrong place for a mojo app tho. Only palm's internal apps are supposed to go there. Jul 15 03:36:49 which one was it? Jul 15 03:36:57 DL_, you should be logging in via telnet until SSH works. Jul 15 03:37:15 ok, thx Jul 15 03:37:15 Rick_: com.danielfarina.tetris_1.8_all.ipk Jul 15 03:37:31 huh Jul 15 03:37:40 he's doing something wrong in his packaging then. Jul 15 03:38:12 sushi2 - try ipkg-opt list and see what it THINKS is installed.... Jul 15 03:39:26 Rick_: Not on that list Jul 15 03:39:38 huh Jul 15 03:39:56 unfortunate. Jul 15 03:40:17 ipkg list shows it though Jul 15 03:41:24 ipkg remove com.danielfarina.tetris_1.8_all.ipk worked Jul 15 03:41:56 is it against rules to put an entire js file on pastebin? Jul 15 03:42:01 perhaps I'm the one who is installing incorrectly. Perhaps I should use ipkg-opt? Jul 15 03:45:55 ok, now I seem not to be able to telnet... Jul 15 03:46:18 Rick_: Downloaded his newest version (name change, hence the uninstall), tried ipkg-opt install com.danielfarina.pretetris_2.0_all.ipk and it returned "ipkg: invalid magic" Jul 15 03:50:41 Sloloem: if you're just about to restore your pre, we have a script to test now Jul 15 03:51:14 sushi2: if you used ipkg to install, then just use ipkg to remove Jul 15 03:51:38 rwhitby: affirmative - but should I be using ipkg? or ipkg-opt? Jul 15 03:51:39 sushi2: go "ipkg list" to find the name of the package, then "ipkg remove " to remove it Jul 15 03:51:50 sushi2: use the same as what you used to install it Jul 15 03:51:54 rwhitby: Affirmative. Was able to remove via that method Jul 15 03:52:11 rwhitby: in the future, what's the recommended install method Jul 15 03:54:54 Anyone try the character counter mod? I tried it and it didn't work, but I thought it was just something I did wonr gbut it seems that more people are having the same problem (except I made backups of my original files :) ) Jul 15 03:56:17 bzhou * r10452 optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/erl-ejabberd.mk): ejabberd: Jabber/XMPP server written in Erlang/OTP. Added & promoted Jul 15 03:58:11 do i need to be in linux in order to package my app to test on an actual pre? Jul 15 03:58:33 tont - no Jul 15 03:58:47 bzhou * r10453 optware/trunk/make/erl-yaws.mk: yaws: 1.76 -> 1.84 Jul 15 03:59:01 you can package by hand from windows following the wiki, or you can grab the leaked sdk and use palm-package. Jul 15 03:59:26 if you're on a mac, go to a command prompt and pretend you're on linux. Jul 15 03:59:39 oh i just need to use palm-package/ Jul 15 03:59:40 ? Jul 15 04:04:39 any1 want to help test optware erlang and inferno on pre? Jul 15 04:05:03 erlang is about 8MB Jul 15 04:05:25 inferno-small about 460kB Jul 15 04:07:36 you can be the first person to run erlang/inferno on pre Jul 15 04:28:52 whats good whats good Jul 15 04:49:23 wakey wakey Jul 15 04:49:26 no Jul 15 04:49:31 sleepy sleepy Jul 15 04:49:54 ...so pissed im out of swap & opt Jul 15 04:49:56 :P Jul 15 04:50:06 add a swapfile :) Jul 15 04:50:10 no swap, phone turns into a tmobile dash. Jul 15 04:50:24 yea lets see Jul 15 04:51:16 /dev/mapper/store-swap Jul 15 04:51:22 dd if=/dev/zero of=swap bs=1024 count=64000 Jul 15 04:51:27 mkswap swap Jul 15 04:51:31 swapon swap Jul 15 04:51:33 hehe Jul 15 04:52:15 yeaaaaaaaa Jul 15 04:53:19 whats default size u know Jul 15 04:54:06 im lookn @ swaphack.sh Jul 15 04:57:41 whats deefault? 130,040?? Jul 15 05:06:54 and ur method is 64mb? Jul 15 05:06:55 Heh Jul 15 05:28:50 Eguy Jul 15 05:28:53 where u be Jul 15 05:29:11 its been quiet here Jul 15 05:29:23 a little...too quiet Jul 15 05:29:24 a little tooo quite Jul 15 05:29:30 lol Jul 15 05:29:30 hmmm Jul 15 05:29:49 que jurassic park sound effects and zoom in on cup of water Jul 15 05:31:22 no? nothing? Jul 15 05:31:26 lol Jul 15 05:31:45 HebrewzHammer: hi Jul 15 05:35:10 * rwhitby has been working on a logo for this community: http://www.rwhitby.net/images/webos-internals-logo.png Jul 15 05:35:25 anyone using filebrowser in here? if I add 'project.filebrowser' to installed_apps I can't select an image to upload from tinymce. however if I add it as 'filebrowser' to installed_apps it works fine. same on production Jul 15 05:35:29 rwhitby: nice Jul 15 05:35:45 rwhitby, awesome! Jul 15 05:36:29 rwhitby: hey Jul 15 05:36:53 so the verdicto nmy rsync restore is that it blows out when it tries to do a back up otherwise it worked fabulously for about a day Jul 15 05:37:08 so the verdict for my rsync.... Jul 15 05:37:12 correction. :) Jul 15 05:37:21 now to make that the bootup logo Jul 15 05:38:12 until I figure out how or somebody else figures how the back up palm login stuff works, it won't be possible to do this kind of restore Jul 15 05:38:18 lmaooo, nice logo rwhitby Jul 15 05:38:32 is there any additional information on that part of the system ? Jul 15 05:39:17 bhuey: you weren't tripping over the /dev/mem problem were you? Jul 15 05:39:21 does anybody know where the antenna is on the pre ? Jul 15 05:39:26 rwhitby: no Jul 15 05:39:33 bhuey: all over Jul 15 05:39:35 I rebooted the thing and it worked perfectly for a while Jul 15 05:39:52 Robi_: where specifically is the placement ? Jul 15 05:39:56 which edge, etc... Jul 15 05:40:05 because I want to make a booster for it Jul 15 05:40:15 out of some kind of corner or parabolic reflector Jul 15 05:40:33 look at the 'take appart' pictures Jul 15 05:40:39 with the unit in the middle of it, but knowing the placement of the antenna would help me a lot here Jul 15 05:40:40 there's no need for a booster Jul 15 05:40:56 it's already a multiphaze antenna Jul 15 05:40:59 the take apart pictures don't show the antenna traces Jul 15 05:41:03 bhuey: what are you tring to do? Jul 15 05:41:12 HebrewzHammer: get a better signal Jul 15 05:41:20 oh Jul 15 05:41:48 I experience with 2.4 ghz antenna building so I know what works well versus what doesn't Jul 15 05:42:03 anyone have a clue on how to change the text forwarding mod so instead of tapping to forward, its a double tap? Jul 15 05:42:05 and I'd like to get better signal in this area Jul 15 05:42:37 if it's the entire unit I can just put the unit in the focus of the reflector, but that doesn't help me if the antenna parts are out of phase in some wierd way Jul 15 05:43:46 which is why I ask about the antenna placement Jul 15 05:43:56 reception sucks when I have my hand around it Jul 15 05:45:03 rwhitby: the closest I can figure out is that one of the sqlite3 dbs contains the relevant information, but I don't have the time to look and test through the behaviors of the backup system Jul 15 05:45:28 otherwise the Palm Pre is a phenomenal unit Jul 15 05:45:34 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192782-webos-internals-logo.html Jul 15 05:45:53 the iPhone has some additional UI goodies that I hope the that pre gets, prevasive copy/cut/paste Jul 15 05:45:59 pervasive Jul 15 05:46:15 and it's got a bunch of annoying bugs Jul 15 05:46:22 but it's still pretty amazing Jul 15 05:46:48 if something calls luna://com.palm.power/timeout/ Jul 15 05:46:56 where'd those files be? Jul 15 05:46:58 rwhitby: very penguinish logo :) Jul 15 05:53:01 who here codes for the pre? Jul 15 05:53:51 technically I do..., but just technically Jul 15 05:53:54 lol Jul 15 05:56:48 ;p Jul 15 06:00:22 Bad battery life for me tonight Jul 15 06:00:32 ouch Jul 15 06:01:24 i didn't thihnk smartflex did much until I "tortur tested" it today and it had almost 20% more battery life than it used to. Jul 15 06:02:00 I just got back from the gym...I got there at 9 battery was at 100% and streamed pandora until the Pre was so hot I could feel it through my gloves and the battery was at 63% :( FAIL. Jul 15 06:02:19 dam Jul 15 06:05:48 has anyone tried seeing if powertop runs on the pre? Jul 15 06:06:15 I remember someone mentioning it before Jul 15 06:06:45 but I haven't seen anyone doing anything with it though Jul 15 06:06:45 grr I'm going to have to set up a cross compile environment Jul 15 06:14:07 Anyone know if a Palm Centro battery is safe for the Palm Pre? Jul 15 06:14:35 i believe i've read that they are not Jul 15 06:16:04 jauderho: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/platforms/toolchain-cs08q1armel.mk Jul 15 06:16:27 whats that? the cross compile env? Jul 15 06:17:44 heh Jul 15 06:17:59 just do what i did, go to the sprint store, and tell them that ur pre keeps shutting off when you close the keyboard Jul 15 06:18:03 and they gave me 2 new batteries lol Jul 15 06:18:06 and said TAKE EM Jul 15 06:21:59 interesting. Jul 15 06:22:34 in 1.0.4 the kernel patch shows PREEMPT to be set Jul 15 06:24:12 rwhitby: if you run into any experts here regarding those db-s, please tell me somehow Jul 15 06:29:16 Is it tough to swap a battery in a Palm Pre? I read somewhere that you can easily damage/wear out the connectors. Jul 15 06:29:29 Just pull the tab. Jul 15 06:30:14 If I root the pre and update the launcher to have multiple pages, will I lose these changes when the webos update comes out? Jul 15 06:30:18 or will these changes remain? Jul 15 06:30:56 any changes, for that matter ;op Jul 15 06:32:02 Some things stay and some things go back to original like the boot logo Jul 15 06:32:16 ic Jul 15 06:32:33 So updates don't "patch" rather they replace a file altogether... Jul 15 06:32:40 so i wont have anything to worry about iwth any modified filez? Jul 15 06:33:00 they edit a file, but everything is documented so it can "unedit" any file Jul 15 06:33:28 oic, not bad not bad. Jul 15 06:35:40 well there is not a patch right now for adding/removing pages in the launcher that I know of Jul 15 06:35:57 I dont use that functionality so didnt bother to build a patch for it. Jul 15 06:36:00 Oh, he was referring to the patching systemtype of thing Jul 15 06:36:08 so if i manaully go in Jul 15 06:36:19 and add additional launcher pages hack (i.e., uncomment the functionality) Jul 15 06:36:22 hey jauderho Jul 15 06:36:25 why was the functioanlity commented out Jul 15 06:36:37 is there any type of issue that occurs (like battery drainage) or (ramusage) Jul 15 06:36:38 no idea. Jul 15 06:37:03 I just hang out here. I've been building patches for the things I use but this is not one that I use so I have not bothered. Jul 15 06:37:12 oh ic ic Jul 15 06:37:55 shouldnt be too hard though Jul 15 06:38:19 so do you think that i will have to go in and replace the file with the original Jul 15 06:38:23 before i do an OTA update Jul 15 06:38:43 pg13: you quilt pop -a before the update, and quilt push -a after the update Jul 15 06:38:50 see the applying-patches wiki page Jul 15 06:38:56 rwhitby: yes sir Jul 15 06:38:58 hey guys. Jul 15 06:39:02 hey Decimation Jul 15 06:39:40 What did you guys do about your battery life situation? Jul 15 06:39:43 whats up pg13? Jul 15 06:40:02 Decimation: Nothign at all, I just cancelled my iPhone contract early and switched to SprintPCS to get a Palm pre :D Jul 15 06:40:12 :D Jul 15 06:40:19 i sold my ipod touch and canceled my verizon contract Jul 15 06:40:21 had the LG dare Jul 15 06:40:21 and now i have a palm pre and its awesome. its like what google chrome os is trying to be lol Jul 15 06:40:27 nice Jul 15 06:40:33 i really love the palm pre Jul 15 06:40:44 there are only a few caveats which i am not too fond of but im sure they will be fixed in the OTA updates Jul 15 06:40:50 yup, great 1.0, and i plan for an even better 2.0 Jul 15 06:41:05 mainly: AIM contacts in contact list, tasks syncing, cut/paste uneditable text Jul 15 06:41:09 besides that im really good Jul 15 06:41:14 except for maybe battery life too :| Jul 15 06:41:22 my battery life last all day :/ Jul 15 06:41:29 the other thing i hope they release the sdk so ppl can make apps but that is inevitable so im gonna be patient about that Jul 15 06:41:33 you are so lucky Jul 15 06:41:52 ive got AIM running 24/7 and 3 emails IMAP/push and i think the battery can only make it about 9 hours Jul 15 06:42:08 i was contemplating buying a palm centro battery but im quite scared... Jul 15 06:42:13 * rwhitby reminds folks about the #webos-watercooler channel ... ;-) Jul 15 06:42:17 i have AIM, 1 email account, constant texting/calling Jul 15 06:42:23 I had an hour of low signal Pandora and it went from 100 to 63 with the Seidio battery :( Jul 15 06:42:32 Eguy: ahh Jul 15 06:42:46 thanks for taking one for the team though and finding out how the seidio battery works Jul 15 06:42:49 Decimation: how is your app design going? Jul 15 06:43:00 ive been in the hospital all day Jul 15 06:43:08 my grandpa had a heart attack :/ Jul 15 06:43:15 decimation: :( Jul 15 06:43:16 Sorry Jul 15 06:44:12 thanks :) Jul 15 06:45:12 rwhitby: i think im just going to make the GUI design and all tonight Jul 15 06:45:15 code tomorrow :) Jul 15 06:45:39 Decimation: what language is palm pre coding done w/? Jul 15 06:45:47 I'm putting some notes together about the power thing. Some of the kernel compile choices that Palm made are just strange. Jul 15 06:45:50 palm pre is java based i believe. Jul 15 06:46:01 javascript.. Jul 15 06:46:33 Big difference ;) Jul 15 06:46:45 yeah, i know, the correction was made though :P Jul 15 06:48:36 javascript Jul 15 06:48:37 seriously? Jul 15 06:48:44 so i can code it too if i know javascirpt? Jul 15 06:48:46 what else do i need Jul 15 06:49:00 CSS and html Jul 15 06:49:05 errk Jul 15 06:49:08 thtas cool Jul 15 06:49:11 wait i got a queston then Jul 15 06:49:16 what about games Jul 15 06:49:29 What about them? Jul 15 06:49:35 is there some kind of javascript graphics library Jul 15 06:49:37 they have? Jul 15 06:49:41 has there been any new hacks for the pre recently that's worthy / Jul 15 06:49:43 ? Jul 15 06:50:00 man everyone and their mother is gonna be making apps for palm pre i guess lolz Jul 15 06:50:08 if all u need is jscrip css and html Jul 15 06:50:08 =x Jul 15 06:50:21 wow, guys, look at this Jul 15 06:50:22 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192787-preide-01-requires-sdk.html Jul 15 06:50:30 made a small little preutility app Jul 15 06:50:30 they way that palm is using JS is pretty clever though Jul 15 06:50:34 seems pretty handy. Jul 15 06:50:37 it's a classis reimplementation of MVC Jul 15 06:50:42 classic Jul 15 06:50:53 I was impressed by it when I looked at the source code for the apps Jul 15 06:51:05 mvc? Jul 15 06:51:13 the JS syntax could be more compact and better for a dynamic typed language, but it's a good combo imo Jul 15 06:51:20 model/view/controller Jul 15 06:51:31 im very happy. Jul 15 06:51:36 i will make an app for you guys :D Jul 15 06:51:41 the closest system to that is Smalltalk Jul 15 06:51:50 and Apple's UI kit Jul 15 06:51:51 Time for me to sleep Jul 15 06:52:01 that are some what used Jul 15 06:52:09 I guess you can think of LISP systems as that as well Jul 15 06:52:47 wakey wakey Jul 15 06:52:54 lol Jul 15 06:53:13 I got a flight to catch tomorrow. Jul 15 06:53:18 anyone workin on teh wiki right now Jul 15 06:53:41 Nein Jul 15 06:55:40 * bhuey hopes there will be tons of hacks for the pre Jul 15 06:57:16 hrm Jul 15 06:57:23 im going to do the ah. Jul 15 06:57:26 homebrew Jul 15 06:57:30 section Jul 15 06:57:32 oc80z, you know doing patches Jul 15 06:57:47 w about em Jul 15 06:58:42 how to apply one Jul 15 06:58:55 i did ipkg-opt install patch Jul 15 06:59:01 and then patch Jul 15 06:59:05 but it just chills there lol Jul 15 07:00:13 eh? which patch Jul 15 07:00:38 adding the state for #'s that aren't in caller id Jul 15 07:00:54 there was a webcast today for test driven mojo app development Jul 15 07:01:08 pivotal labs was talking a little about their dev process Jul 15 07:01:35 they have jasmine (yet another framework) but is not DOM based so good for mojo Jul 15 07:01:58 there's also pockets which does a lot of mock/setup work but is not released yet. Jul 15 07:02:21 the state? Jul 15 07:02:33 yes Jul 15 07:02:47 i like Jul 15 07:02:52 for area codes Jul 15 07:02:57 like old times Jul 15 07:03:08 er, which file are you patching Jul 15 07:03:40 http://wklej.org/id/118622/txt Jul 15 07:03:43 trying to install that patch Jul 15 07:03:43 lol Jul 15 07:07:24 oh Jul 15 07:08:08 its not pushed on gitorious Jul 15 07:08:59 dunno guess look at that be in ..../app/controllers/ and patch -p0 < patchfile , no? Jul 15 07:09:34 lol found a TI internal only doc Jul 15 07:09:36 http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:VLmXLi8WpOkJ:www.celinux.org/elc08_presentations/TI_OMAP3430_Linux_PM_reference.ppt+smartreflex+%22linux-pm%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a Jul 15 07:10:23 is taht wrong? Jul 15 07:14:54 can someone please do the following Jul 15 07:15:10 preuser@castle:/sys/power$ Jul 15 07:15:19 i mean cat /sys/power/vdd* Jul 15 07:15:54 I want to know what values you are seeing as well as if you have smartreflex or cpu-scaling enabled. Jul 15 07:16:12 there a patch to disable amazone tunes when starting ah, music. Jul 15 07:22:12 anyone in here familar with the text message forwarding patch? Jul 15 07:24:52 tlzz: do you know who the author of that patch you pasted is? Jul 15 07:25:11 jauderho: it's not really TI internal if they present it at ELC08 :-) Jul 15 07:25:21 true =) Jul 15 07:25:33 its just funny it sez ti internal Jul 15 07:27:09 tlzz: check this thread out.. http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/191758-howto-show-state-location-u-s-numbers-incoming-outgoing-calls-log.html Jul 15 07:27:18 just login into you're pre however you want Jul 15 07:27:27 all he said to copy Jul 15 07:27:29 and paste Jul 15 07:29:11 guys, i have a question about using winscp... think anyone will be able to help? Jul 15 07:42:13 hmmm Jul 15 07:42:19 wonder if i can just make that a script Jul 15 07:42:30 Decimation: What's the question? Jul 15 07:42:42 http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/191758-howto-show-state-location-u-s-numbers-incoming-outgoing-calls-log.html Jul 15 07:42:48 his code that he says copy/paste Jul 15 07:42:54 wonder if i can just make that into a script Jul 15 07:43:03 tlzz: already exists Jul 15 07:43:18 really? Jul 15 07:43:21 i saw the patch Jul 15 07:43:32 tlzz: check precentral.net, someone has created a script combining all of his together Jul 15 07:43:40 with menus Jul 15 07:43:42 i loaded that script already Jul 15 07:43:44 to pick the ones you want Jul 15 07:43:46 that part wasn't in there Jul 15 07:43:50 ah Jul 15 07:43:53 really? Jul 15 07:44:15 then mod that script to include it - should be easy to copy another entry Jul 15 07:44:24 Decimation: did you have a question on winscp? Jul 15 07:44:26 en0x: do you want to upload that patch you made to the repo? Jul 15 07:45:59 hey, sushi2, still here? Jul 15 07:46:11 Decimation: yep - for a few more min Jul 15 07:46:26 well, in winscp, i log into my username created Jul 15 07:46:29 it is Jul 15 07:46:32 dhMassacre Jul 15 07:46:37 but when i try to save an edited file Jul 15 07:46:39 it doesnt let me. Jul 15 07:46:56 Decimation: you need to make the rootf rw, and you may need to sudo as well Jul 15 07:47:21 dump the file into your username home dir Jul 15 07:47:25 Using an Unlocked iPhone? Forget About Push-Enabled Apps Apple - http://tinyurl.com/m2zxs3 Jul 15 07:47:34 then ssh and cp it to the final location Jul 15 07:47:38 (fastest method) Jul 15 07:48:55 okay Jul 15 07:48:57 thanks Jul 15 07:50:11 Decimation: good luck Jul 15 07:51:13 lol, i feel so new to all this :/ Jul 15 07:51:50 btw, sushi2, u were right Jul 15 07:51:53 it was in there Jul 15 07:51:55 and im an idiot ; Jul 15 07:51:56 ) Jul 15 07:51:58 :) Jul 15 07:52:16 ;) 'tis okay Jul 15 07:52:21 anyone here familiar with the text forwarding patch? Jul 15 07:52:39 Decimation, the txt forwarding patch is in that script Jul 15 07:52:47 that i DO KNOW lol Jul 15 07:52:48 yeah, i know that. Jul 15 07:53:05 ahh, so u must have a different question Jul 15 07:53:06 im just curious if anyone would know how to make it so it requires a double tap to forward Jul 15 07:53:09 instead of tap. Jul 15 07:53:17 touche Jul 15 07:53:20 i was thinking the same thing Jul 15 07:53:35 because if you tap the screen to align a copy/paste Jul 15 07:53:41 it would try to forward Jul 15 07:53:42 :D Jul 15 07:55:21 well Jul 15 07:55:23 in my case Jul 15 07:55:27 if it fails to send Jul 15 07:55:34 when i click it to hit send again Jul 15 07:55:40 it just goes to forward the message Jul 15 08:23:39 oc80z? Jul 15 08:23:57 do you know who added the verbiage on the processor page about missing modules? Jul 15 08:24:10 I looked at the doc and it's not clear what is missing. Jul 15 08:24:42 I did notice the vdd1 is set differently though. Jul 15 08:33:25 wdup Jul 15 08:34:11 i replaced brick the device, with freeze kernel panic, fix by usb, reboot, remove /etc/event/smartfelx scripts Jul 15 09:12:16 I was just about to restart firefox when it crashed. FML. Jul 15 09:40:44 ok, update on the use of a reflector to boost the signal to my Pre Jul 15 09:40:46 it works :) Jul 15 09:41:17 I used a simple corner reflector and dropped it approximately where I think the focal point is Jul 15 09:41:33 a proper parabolic should get me more gain Jul 15 10:52:32 wow Jul 15 10:53:25 what? Jul 15 11:18:07 er what Jul 15 11:28:00 bblz Jul 15 12:13:08 * raeb sneezes Jul 15 13:02:08 raeb: gesundheit Jul 15 13:07:50 Ok, browser/enable-browser-downloads.patch has been fixed. For future reference, if you are going to manually edit a patch file, make sure you update the patch line that says how many lines the new version has... http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/commit/f2900f809215624f83c9302846bf3a5e8709e6cf Jul 15 13:30:39 drnull: thx Jul 15 14:00:37 whats the method with git/quilt to update patches you've already applied? Jul 15 14:00:56 are you suppose to manually notice the change and remove and reapply or is there some built in mechanism? Jul 15 14:04:41 rawdr: you have to notice that the patch has changed (just like with the homebrew apps, you have to keep track of updates) Jul 15 14:06:38 but then do you have to pop it and then push the new one? Jul 15 14:07:42 that's the best method I know of to do. I'm not sure what would happen if you had a pushed patch, made changes to the patch, and then repushed the patch Jul 15 14:07:45 rawdr: do a git pull, note the patches that have changed, quilt pop -a, quilt import the changed patches, quilt push -a Jul 15 14:08:17 might need a -f on the quilt imports to overwrite the existing patch Jul 15 14:08:31 it's possible to rearrange the order of patches, correct? (so that you don't have to pop *all* of your patches) Jul 15 14:08:32 okay, thanks Jul 15 14:09:01 drnull: you can only rearrange patches that are not pushed. Jul 15 14:09:09 (by editing the series file) Jul 15 14:09:10 I only ask because I had a patch that referenced a new binary file. quilt pop, binary file goes away... quilt push, binary file doesn't come back as quilt/patch/somebody isn't handling the binary file Jul 15 14:09:30 rwhitby: gotcha, so reordering is not supported, it's just kinda "hacked" in. Jul 15 14:09:34 drnull: if quilt is not handling the binary file, why would it go away? Jul 15 14:09:53 because I did a quilt add on it... Jul 15 14:10:06 * drnull slaps forehead Jul 15 14:11:02 note that stgit supports floating and sinking of patches, but using stgit meant that you had to put your whole Pre rootfs under a local git repo on the Pre. Jul 15 14:11:50 morning Rick_ Jul 15 14:12:13 morning.... Jul 15 14:12:19 or evening Jul 15 14:12:47 is there a way to re-import all patches you've already imported? Jul 15 14:12:50 let's see.... almost midnight for you? Jul 15 14:12:57 http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jul 15 14:13:29 rawdr: foreach f in *.patch ; do .... ? Jul 15 14:13:52 yeah figured.. okay thanks Jul 15 14:14:29 Rick_: yeah, 15 to midnight. working on getting my ubuntu vm running under virtualbox on the macbookpro and nfs mounting work areas from macos. Jul 15 14:14:59 (so I can share work areas between multiple VMs running at the same time in virtualbox on OSX host) Jul 15 14:15:19 you have the most complex work environment I know of. I thought mine was bad. Yours is worse. Jul 15 14:16:24 well, the osx bit is new. used to do this on windows, and couldn't share work areas easily amongst VMs. Jul 15 14:16:38 (at least not work areas that can handle kernel compilations and symlinks) Jul 15 14:17:29 now I can run virtualbox on the osx host, and have windows, centos, ubuntu, and openembedded all running under virtualbox, and all mounting work areas concurrently from the same directory hierarchy on the osx host. Jul 15 14:17:44 (and then ssh into any of them from osx) Jul 15 14:18:02 * Rick_ vista32 with a virtual win2k running sql server 2000, and a virtual xp to test software compatibility against, and an xp idiling unless I need to do maintenance work on old client software written in VFP 5 which won't RUN on vista.... Jul 15 14:19:28 and Templarian is trying to convince me to switch programming editors, and has pretty much accomplished the argument I think. Jul 15 14:19:37 at least for webOS stuff. Jul 15 14:25:02 Rick_: from eclipse or something else? Jul 15 14:26:33 and isn't it the case that the "official" sdk plugins will be available for eclipse and (I think) netbeans. Not komodo, right? Jul 15 14:32:07 eclipse as I understand it Jul 15 14:33:45 hi guys Jul 15 14:34:06 is anyone here familiar with how to get hamanachi working? Jul 15 14:34:51 or, does anyone know how to copy apps out of the root access onto your pc Jul 15 14:34:53 ? Jul 15 14:38:08 im back Jul 15 14:38:12 lol Jul 15 14:38:14 brb Jul 15 14:39:03 better Jul 15 14:39:09 :D Jul 15 14:43:26 I want a QR-code app :) Jul 15 14:45:52 http://code.google.com/p/zxing/ - go at it Jul 15 14:47:03 ooooooooooooooboi. Jul 15 14:47:16 http://reader.kaywa.com/ alrready a java app.. prob wouldnt be to dificult to port Jul 15 14:47:37 though I dont code so, I can only make sujestions Jul 15 14:48:14 bout to port my brain Jul 15 14:51:03 chances are you could add that as a service that runs in java ... accepts an image to process, and returns the results Jul 15 14:55:06 heh Jul 15 14:55:10 ill program that Jul 15 14:55:16 do it Jul 15 15:04:27 anyone know anything about the hamanachi app for the pre? Jul 15 15:04:58 hamachi* Jul 15 15:09:20 Picard: there's a wiki page about it I think Jul 15 15:09:44 im having some troubbles doing the edits it wants me to do Jul 15 15:09:53 bpadalino: http://developer.danger.com/site/user/login <-- should have cam/barcode in there Jul 15 15:10:53 i get to unpacking hamachi Jul 15 15:10:56 then, nothing Jul 15 15:12:52 sdlkajsdaf;lkjsadf;lkjasdf;lkjasdf;lkjasdf;kljsdf;lkjasdf;kljasdf;lkjasdfl;kjasdfl;kjasdf;lkjsadf;lkjasdf;ljasdf;ljk Jul 15 15:12:53 it tells me to edit the install script, but how do i do that? Jul 15 15:13:04 http://predev.wikidot.com/hamachivpn Jul 15 15:13:39 just switched to a Palm Pre from my Blackberry Curve.... So far i'm loving the pre, but I really miss my persistant LED notification. anyway to add this? I noticed there is no "LED" but maybe one of the nav lights could flash? if they're not just an LCD controlled hole for the backlight that is.... Jul 15 15:13:54 welcome PreGame Jul 15 15:15:42 I definitely agree that LED notification is a major feature missing. Jul 15 15:16:00 and the nav lights would be perfect (except for not being at the top of the case) Jul 15 15:16:19 cause there's 3 LEDs for potentially more info and they are dimmable Jul 15 15:16:30 good i'm not alone :) .. It looks to me like the nav lights only work if the back light is on... .. Jul 15 15:16:39 oh so there are LED's? Jul 15 15:16:58 I believe they are Jul 15 15:17:05 I didn't think of that before but thats true Jul 15 15:17:17 any clues? Jul 15 15:18:10 anyone know how to reboot the messenger app to load a new style.css (without rebooting the entire pre?) Jul 15 15:18:19 not sure.. To me the look like they are part of the back light and controlled similar to an LCD screen just pass some voltage to make them transparant Jul 15 15:18:43 czarphanguye, luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 15 15:19:01 picard, the install script is a file called 'install' and you can edit it with vi by typing 'vi install' Jul 15 15:19:12 but you have to learn how to use vi Jul 15 15:19:18 rawdr: thanks Jul 15 15:19:37 http://predev.wikidot.com/controlling-leds-from-the-shell Jul 15 15:19:43 ahh Jul 15 15:19:51 rawdr thanks Jul 15 15:20:07 awesome! Jul 15 15:20:41 yeah they are LEDs for sure Jul 15 15:25:41 well that's good to know, so at least it's possible. I have no clue how to do it, but hopefuly someone will in the future. So far that's the only thing I really "miss" from the blackberry. Jul 15 15:28:39 (rawdr): what does it mean when it says follow instructions from readme, there is nothing in that file when i do vi readme Jul 15 15:40:20 there is a thread on precentral with code for turning the led on when messages or emails come in. Jul 15 15:40:34 in the absense of a formal led api, there's no way _right now_ to make it blink. Jul 15 15:50:23 very interesting I will check that out. Jul 15 15:57:38 how do i install apps on the pre emulator Jul 15 16:14:17 hi Picard Jul 15 16:15:18 Picard: that WOULD be a question for #webos, if the SDK were released :D Jul 15 16:15:46 Picard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkf5te4JkOs&feature=related Jul 15 16:16:05 U S S ENTERPRISE Jul 15 16:30:59 Is anybody else getting a "Unable to connect. Try again later," message when trying to use the update program? Jul 15 17:06:23 CoolManLuke: No, it is working for me (Checking for Updates... Your Phone is Up To Date.) - I am on wifi connection. Jul 15 17:08:45 checking for updates always takes me a very long time Jul 15 17:08:46 WFM as well. I apparently have (two?!) tweed updates. Jul 15 17:15:10 hello all Jul 15 17:15:30 howdy Jul 15 17:15:34 im about to get my Pre today and excited to join you guys in the hacking/devel process Jul 15 17:15:55 im a long time linux dev so I should be able to help out Jul 15 17:16:23 i read something on the wiki about how native apps needs to be written in a plugin architecture Jul 15 17:16:35 i was curious how far the terminal work has progressed Jul 15 17:17:00 not very far for a native terminal which fits into a card Jul 15 17:17:09 it's definitely a standard web plugin architecture .. Jul 15 17:17:22 you get a draw event, and a pointer to a raw frame buffer Jul 15 17:17:56 Mostly I keep thinking that I'd like a terminal, and that's about as far as I've gotten. :) Jul 15 17:17:58 disecting how the classic app passes keypresses/HID events is good .. Jul 15 17:18:20 and looking at the basic plugin in the gitorious repo is good Jul 15 17:18:27 i think it draws a blue picture to the screen Jul 15 17:18:56 cool Jul 15 17:19:09 i cant want to start hacking on this Jul 15 17:19:50 if you're good with C and/or web plugin architecture - i am sure destinal would be a good person to talk to about the stuff he has done Jul 15 17:22:35 PuffTheMagic: absolutely Jul 15 17:24:07 PuffTheMagic: work is moving slowly because of lack of manpower and c++ and graphics library experience Jul 15 17:24:20 PuffTheMagic: so we could use all the help we can get Jul 15 17:24:49 PuffTheMagic: to get started check the plugin page Jul 15 17:24:50 http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins Jul 15 17:25:22 check out the sample code, build it, install it in an emulator if you have one or cross compile it to arm and copy it to the pre Jul 15 17:25:49 I recommend using eclipse and the egit plugin to download the code from the repository Jul 15 17:26:14 but command line works well also Jul 15 17:34:07 hello all Jul 15 17:34:35 hi Jul 15 17:35:03 destinal: well I have C/C++ and graphics lib experience Jul 15 17:35:11 i just never written a browser plugin Jul 15 17:35:15 but that should be trivial Jul 15 17:35:20 i have written other types of plugins Jul 15 17:35:58 PuffTheMagic YEA!!!! Jul 15 17:36:14 we rather dramatically lacked someone with graphics experiance Jul 15 17:36:41 PuffTheMagic: awesome Jul 15 17:37:29 i guess the first step would be getting this SDK running Jul 15 17:37:34 PuffTheMagic: check out the sample plugin I've got going in git and the handling code for the palm draw events. let me know if there's any way I can help you get up to speed Jul 15 17:37:35 too bad the linux version didnt get leaked Jul 15 17:38:20 hi Jul 15 17:42:54 will do Jul 15 17:44:30 so when you guys say "graphics" I take it you just mean 2d drawing with out a nice widget toolkit Jul 15 17:44:54 i noticed root image and example plugin use glib2 Jul 15 17:45:28 yes, just 2D drawing Jul 15 17:45:36 i bet there would be a way to use gtk+ though a plugin ;) Jul 15 17:45:44 quite possibly Jul 15 17:45:49 and not have to reinvent the wheel Jul 15 17:46:32 * PuffTheMagic will have to get an arm toolchain working Jul 15 17:46:51 they use codesourcery Jul 15 17:47:05 the nslu2 stuff they use for cross compiling works Jul 15 17:47:37 yeah but I would like to have a regular gcc cross toolchain in my gentoo env Jul 15 17:47:44 so i dont have to work in an emu or chroot Jul 15 17:47:48 yes Jul 15 17:47:50 i am saying Jul 15 17:47:52 codesourcery Jul 15 17:48:03 and the nslu2 cross compiling toolchain they use Jul 15 17:48:21 i will check it out Jul 15 17:48:35 http://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/debian/trunk/toolchain/Makefile - maybe that's it / Jul 15 17:48:38 building cross toolchains in gentoo is trivial though Jul 15 17:48:50 but you get the idea Jul 15 17:50:16 do u know what kernel version they have running? Jul 15 17:50:31 2.6.24 i believe ? Jul 15 17:50:34 hold Jul 15 17:50:46 http://opensource.palm.com/1.0.4/index.html Jul 15 17:50:50 that will be helpful for you Jul 15 17:51:17 yes that is nice :D Jul 15 17:51:42 .24 is OLD! Jul 15 17:51:43 :D Jul 15 17:52:03 i bet we would see some improved PM with newer kernels Jul 15 17:52:21 someone was working on getting their own kernel running .. Jul 15 17:52:22 * PuffTheMagic is getting too excited and doesnt even have a Pre in hand yet Jul 15 17:53:05 bpadalino|work: i do kernel hacking all the time, run my own patchet for the past ~7 years so new kernel will be the very first thing I do :D Jul 15 17:53:26 excellent Jul 15 17:53:46 there is a way to put your kernel into memory without reflashing the pre .. to boot "experimental" kernels Jul 15 17:53:54 in fact, a whole custom user land will be on its way :D Jul 15 17:55:14 sounds like a good time Jul 15 17:55:39 gentoo on my pre Jul 15 17:55:46 i dont think it gets any better :D Jul 15 17:55:53 might take a while to compile on that OMAP Jul 15 17:56:49 i wouldnt bother compiling that on the OMAP, thats why I want a cross toolchain Jul 15 17:56:58 i can build it on my core duo Jul 15 17:57:05 then rync it to the pre Jul 15 17:57:08 or something like that Jul 15 17:57:18 thats how I work on my OLPC and iPod Jul 15 17:57:54 ah cool Jul 15 17:58:00 or some form of distcc could work i bet Jul 15 17:58:02 a much better idea for sure Jul 15 17:58:08 hi all Jul 15 17:58:17 so why arey ou still typing? go out and buy your pre! Jul 15 17:58:40 i need to wait for my bother to get home from work to convice him that we should get them from best buy Jul 15 17:58:50 since all the sprint stores seem to be on backorder Jul 15 17:59:06 they should not be as of this week. Jul 15 17:59:08 i had read the sprint stores have inventory now ? Jul 15 17:59:38 well the bestbuy extended warranty would also be nice Jul 15 17:59:51 i cant see the Pre lasting thought too many falls Jul 15 18:00:00 s/throught/through Jul 15 18:00:31 i haven't dropped mine yet ... Jul 15 18:00:45 but i can see it cracking in half like an egg .. breaking the slider if it took a fall too hard Jul 15 18:01:00 yeah thats why I want the BB warranty Jul 15 18:01:06 the spring warranty is a rip off Jul 15 18:01:16 5 dollars a month plus the replacement charge Jul 15 18:01:23 versus 1 fixed fee Jul 15 18:02:18 nick hemna|work Jul 15 18:02:21 errg Jul 15 18:02:30 i love the bb warranty Jul 15 18:02:34 helps that i work for them Jul 15 18:03:01 yeah i had some friends who work at BB get me some car audio stuff years back Jul 15 18:03:05 that was nice Jul 15 18:03:15 heh, and they could have gotten fired ;) Jul 15 18:03:23 got products at cost plus 6% and then like 6 more dollars for the warranty ;) Jul 15 18:03:35 hehe, ahh, i remember those days Jul 15 18:03:39 i used to do that Jul 15 18:03:55 but i dont anymore, dont feel like losing my management position over someone that wants a discount lol Jul 15 18:04:12 actually, they worked at Media Play Jul 15 18:04:17 which best buy owned back then Jul 15 18:04:36 and they were pretty slack about checking Media Play employee purchases Jul 15 18:05:30 one thing i dont like about the bb warranty is that it doesn't cover lost/stolen :\ Jul 15 18:05:57 id rather pay the sprint deductible! Jul 15 18:07:43 any one have a preference with gtk vs qt on the Pre Jul 15 18:08:05 qt would be hot Jul 15 18:19:42 Hey guys, I just deactivated the debian rootfs, now I'm trying to mount it again, but I'm getting this error... Jul 15 18:19:49 mount: could not find any free loop device Jul 15 18:20:04 Did I do something wrong when deactivating it or is this normal? Jul 15 18:26:14 can you query the Palm internal DBs (such as contacts) with Mojo apps? Jul 15 18:27:53 contacts is written in mojo .. so yes Jul 15 18:28:17 someone stole my mojo Jul 15 18:30:31 oh noes Jul 15 18:31:52 did he have bad teeth? Jul 15 18:33:43 yesss Jul 15 18:42:26 PuffTheMagic: I don't want to replace the entire gui any time soon, so uh, neither gtk nor qt. :) Jul 15 18:43:50 i dont mean reaplace the whole gui, but if we are gonna write native apps instead of using this html/css/javascript crap then it seems still to create widgets in pure x11 Jul 15 18:44:06 PuffTheMagic: we're not under X11 Jul 15 18:44:27 PuffTheMagic: Luna is a whole different ballgame Jul 15 18:46:09 PuffTheMagic: basically in browser plugins we're given a viewport on the screen that's a bunch of RGBA values. we can blit into it and return and it gets drawn Jul 15 18:47:38 similar to a gdkpixbuf but not quite Jul 15 18:48:17 is there any docs on Luna that i can read more about Jul 15 18:48:35 hahahahaha Jul 15 18:48:39 that was funny :D Jul 15 18:49:07 :/ Jul 15 18:49:15 PuffTheMagic: it's palm proprietary, but we have headers in their open source release that have given some ideas. it's that, trial and error, and reverse engineering where needed Jul 15 18:49:52 http://opensource.palm.com/1.0.4/ Jul 15 18:50:34 download webcore.tgz, open it up and apply the patch from webcore-patch.gz Jul 15 18:51:01 well what is forcing us to use "Luna" Jul 15 18:51:07 Luna IS the gui Jul 15 18:51:18 rather than X11 or whatever you're used to Jul 15 18:51:25 X11 is not a gui either Jul 15 18:51:52 Luna is _the_ application that runs on the palm to interact with the user Jul 15 18:51:53 whatever graphical thingies we make need to show up within luna Jul 15 18:52:01 PuffTheMagic: you can use what you want, just no phone Jul 15 18:52:13 yet Jul 15 18:52:21 everything you see on the screen and all of mojo and everything else, that's in Luna Jul 15 18:52:21 .... i just trying to understand what is going on here.... Jul 15 18:52:35 ah lunasysmgr you fun thing Jul 15 18:53:20 so luna sounds like a stripped down xorg-server w/ integrated webkit Jul 15 18:53:36 integrated webkit yes Jul 15 18:53:38 xorg no Jul 15 18:53:53 oh right, you said it used directfb Jul 15 18:54:00 yeah, no xorg Jul 15 18:54:13 It's a program that does its own rendering to the screen, deals with touch and keyboard input, and talk, talks to the CDMA modem etc etc Jul 15 18:54:16 we should be able to make an X proxy at some point though Jul 15 18:54:26 some through other interfaces and os level services Jul 15 18:55:06 it is to webOS what xorg is to your typical linux box but it's not much alike Jul 15 18:55:33 and it's more of a stack than just a gui Jul 15 18:56:08 it's more like luna is the root of all gui processes Jul 15 18:56:42 but if you want to make graphical apps, look at the plugin code I pointed you at and start handling drawevent calls that Luna sends you Jul 15 18:56:44 but it also handles the display for its plugins, like webkitluna Jul 15 18:56:54 the browser plugin is basically our world at this point Jul 15 18:57:05 in terms of direct graphics in luna Jul 15 18:57:51 or you can stop luna completely, but don't expect to use it as a phone anytime soon Jul 15 19:00:07 im not trying to stop luna, im trying to figure out how i can avoid writting widgets for every app Jul 15 19:00:10 What has vweification has apple added to itunes to blcok the pre? Jul 15 19:01:01 PuffTheMagic: use Luna for widgets Jul 15 19:01:17 u said Luna just gives u a canvas for 2d though Jul 15 19:01:38 Well, there's a couple of things. One, you can do bidrectional connection from Mojo apps to plugin Jul 15 19:01:55 I advise doing all your UI on the Mojo side except where raw drawing is absolutely needed Jul 15 19:02:06 Look at the app "classic" for an example' Jul 15 19:02:28 i will i will, once I start looking at the code im sure this will start making more sense Jul 15 19:02:34 as to exactly what they did Jul 15 19:02:39 PuffTheMagic: what you can do is write a very basic html wrapper for a plugin, the plugin can use the whole card Jul 15 19:02:56 you can also make the plugin only take up some fraction of the card Jul 15 19:03:02 your embed can be arbitrarily sized Jul 15 19:03:06 or even invisible Jul 15 19:03:19 well, you need some js, but we are trying to standardize this Jul 15 19:03:21 yes Jul 15 19:03:59 i was thinking the best way would be to do things client/server ish, so expose what is needed to via the plugin then use js/html/css as a light wrapper for it Jul 15 19:04:19 right Jul 15 19:04:34 well do as much as possible in the mojo side Jul 15 19:04:51 that allows you to present standard UI's, alerts, notifications, etc etc Jul 15 19:05:00 right Jul 15 19:07:34 mainly we'd want to use plugins to extend functionality, so filesystem or network access mojo doesn't support, raw drawing.. For a terminal we could even conceivably do it all in the DOM with the right font and not need direct drawing Jul 15 19:08:38 I haven't had much time in the last couple of days but raeb and I have been looking into porting something like anyterm http://anyterm.org/ Jul 15 19:10:42 regarding graphics libraries, Palm has an internally developed toolkit called Piranha graphics library, for 2d vector drawing Jul 15 19:11:01 some of the headers for it are in their webkit patch but some are missing Jul 15 19:11:10 err webcore patch Jul 15 19:11:44 I think it's actually based on open source code but I'm not sure if its BSD licensed or if it requires them to provide it Jul 15 19:12:46 bpadalino|work, hey, tried precomd from github on ubuntu and I get a 'Error claiming interface 1: -16' Jul 15 19:13:06 bpadalino|work, also, hows it goin. Jul 15 19:13:33 gaffo, work has been pretty difficult .. they have these summer hours which are 4x10 hour days Jul 15 19:13:46 gaffo, weird about the error ... very weird Jul 15 19:15:48 gaffo, which version of libusb are you using ? Jul 15 19:20:06 What has vweification has apple added to itunes to blcok the pre? Jul 15 19:21:26 i am guessing it makes sure the vendor field is set to apple instead of palm Jul 15 19:22:05 bpadalino|work: media sync mode uses an apple vendor field, doesn't it? Jul 15 19:22:34 i thought media sync mode just changed the interface, but the device showed up as a Palm device still Jul 15 19:22:55 as it would be against the USB people to claim you are another company's device Jul 15 19:23:11 http://nanocr.eu/2009/06/04/palm-pre-usb-hack-confirmed/ Jul 15 19:23:29 it claims apple ipod Jul 15 19:23:56 However, it.s only the Mass Storage interface that identifies itself as an iPod. The root USB node (IOUSBDevice) still identifies the device as a Palm Pre (not visible in the image above). This means that Apple can very easily update iTunes to block the Pre. Jul 15 19:24:05 ah Jul 15 19:25:36 it's kind of futile to try to maintain interoperability with a moving target that wants to stop you, I'm kind of annoyed apple would do this though. wouldn't you think they'd want market share from pre users? Jul 15 19:26:11 No Jul 15 19:26:18 they want to control all their users ;) Jul 15 19:26:20 that's the Apple way Jul 15 19:26:30 pre users using itunes doesn't sell ipods .. Jul 15 19:26:40 the thought is that this is already violating the USB spec Jul 15 19:26:48 but does palm even use the USB logo anywhere? Jul 15 19:26:52 oh, on bootie, doh Jul 15 19:27:44 http://www.usb.org/developers/compliance/logo/ - i don't see the bootie logo anywhere on that page Jul 15 19:28:33 http://nttup.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/img_3160_usb-logo.jpg - is that image copyright ? Jul 15 19:28:36 ah, I think they're using the old usb logo like http://nttup.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/img_3160_usb-logo.jpg -- but is that trademarked or just electrical? Jul 15 19:28:54 heh Jul 15 19:29:12 you beat me by 3 seconds Jul 15 19:29:32 When extracting fceu, what directory should I be doing it in? Jul 15 19:32:43 hearsay but I'm seeing people say that apparently the old usb logo is free to use without any legal restriction Jul 15 19:33:00 it's funny, it's the one I'd recognize most Jul 15 19:33:01 very interesting Jul 15 19:33:54 Running bunzip on fceu, I keep getting an I/O error and it fails. Jul 15 19:34:08 that sounds bad Jul 15 19:34:48 Yeah, it's a little unnerving... Jul 15 19:34:57 bunzip2: No space left on device Jul 15 19:35:43 Hmm...ran apt-get clean and it looks like I might be okay now. Jul 15 19:36:30 space usually helps Jul 15 19:40:18 what file do modify for it report a different vendor id to itunes? Jul 15 19:41:24 good question Jul 15 19:50:48 Milt: probably somewhere in the bowels of a binary file that sets up the dirver Jul 15 19:50:55 driver, too Jul 15 19:54:24 I doubt it's that burried, any idea where palm store the info for usb mode? Jul 15 19:55:30 Anyone fix iTunes synching yet? ;D Jul 15 19:57:03 Is it detecting the chip or is it referencing a OS device ID? Jul 15 19:58:38 sushi2, can't say - at work :( Jul 15 19:59:36 Milt: I wouldn't be surprised if the root id is in hardware :( Jul 15 20:00:09 oh it is Jul 15 20:00:22 the software created usb ID that is passed to itunes _already_ claims to be an ipod Jul 15 20:00:33 but all they have to do is look one layer up and get the real answer Jul 15 20:00:43 which sounds like what they've done Jul 15 20:01:25 maybe you can figure out which dll from the older version you need to make it work Jul 15 20:01:29 or just downgrade Jul 15 20:08:28 to be honest I'm surprised palm did this thing with media sync mode acting like an ipod, but I guess even if they can break itunes a lot of hardware devices will still be compatible with the pre Jul 15 20:10:52 from the kernel patch: Jul 15 20:10:53 +extern struct usb_function eth_usb_function; Jul 15 20:10:53 +extern struct usb_function gs4_usb_function; Jul 15 20:10:53 +extern struct usb_function fsg_usb_function; Jul 15 20:10:53 +extern struct usb_function gadgetfs_usb_function; Jul 15 20:11:04 gadgetfs_usb_function defined novacom Jul 15 20:11:22 * bhuey wishes fairplay would work Jul 15 20:15:02 what do you need fairplay for ? Jul 15 20:38:01 itunes Jul 15 20:43:14 itms is drm free now other than the movies i thought Jul 15 20:43:51 lol, my annoying palm about cpuboot+lgpl finally got noticed by them :P Jul 15 20:43:55 fun fact: cdm uses a mac Jul 15 20:46:02 a lot of those guys use macs Jul 15 20:48:19 that's pretty awesome Jul 15 20:49:11 anyone figure out how to fire an event from the accelerometer? Jul 15 20:51:03 turn your phone ? Jul 15 20:51:15 bpadalino: :P Jul 15 20:51:19 :) Jul 15 20:53:07 chron: cpuboot? Jul 15 20:53:44 chron: I've noticed some lgpl code that palm needs to post Jul 15 20:54:50 i just got the obj files Jul 15 20:54:51 cpuboot uses libusb and hasn't been released Jul 15 20:54:57 yes Jul 15 20:54:58 it has Jul 15 20:55:03 oh Jul 15 20:55:03 ok Jul 15 20:55:07 on their opensource site their libusb has Jul 15 20:55:13 they are being dick-ish tho Jul 15 20:55:30 even tho its LGPL, they are including libUSB in the program, not just linking to it Jul 15 20:55:33 we should go through and try to build everything on the open source site and point out the ones that don't build because they haven't completely released Jul 15 20:55:52 destinal, it's not a bad idea Jul 15 20:56:05 chron, for the 1.0.4 release, i can't find libusb ? Jul 15 20:56:14 103 Jul 15 20:56:23 they probably took it out since they apparently plan to remove cpuboot Jul 15 20:56:27 piranha graphics library is one BIG thing based on some LGPL code (pango) that they need to release Jul 15 20:56:34 ah Jul 15 20:56:38 which is pointless because it'll pop up on the pirate bay and stuff if its ever needeed Jul 15 20:57:16 chron, doesn't the SDK come with cpuboot ? Jul 15 20:58:01 well, looks like the newest version of iTunes is goign to block out the pre Jul 15 20:58:19 * bhuey is afraid to download the latest version of iTunes Jul 15 20:58:39 bhuey: don't get it unless you want media sync to stop working with itunes Jul 15 20:58:53 what about keeping a copy of the old app around ? Jul 15 20:58:53 the pre has pretty terrible battery life when playing music ... i tried to do that - but it was going to die too quick at work Jul 15 20:58:58 People use itunes? Jul 15 20:59:03 keep the old installer then you can go back Jul 15 20:59:07 I think Jul 15 20:59:11 lurking_grue lol Jul 15 20:59:21 wouldn't know where that old package is Jul 15 20:59:23 Lurking_Grue: apparently...I've never even seen it, myself Jul 15 20:59:30 * Lurking_Grue never got into the habit. Jul 15 20:59:38 probably best Jul 15 20:59:56 well, somebody has got to verify that this is going to break the Pre Jul 15 20:59:57 I wonder what they did to kill the sync. Jul 15 21:00:02 bhuey, it does Jul 15 21:00:03 I guess that's going to be me Jul 15 21:00:13 bhuey, it's been reported by numerous gadget websites Jul 15 21:00:17 it's busted after the upgrade Jul 15 21:00:25 well, too bad Jul 15 21:00:28 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/192856-apple-blocks-palm-pre-itunes-syncing-itunes-8-2-1-a-2.html Jul 15 21:00:29 installing it now Jul 15 21:00:43 ???? Jul 15 21:00:50 why would you do that? Jul 15 21:01:45 ok Jul 15 21:02:23 Well apple iPod's have to be activated to listen to DRM music right? I'm sure there's some way to poll the iPod for it's certificate/license/whatever that they need to then activate it to listen to your DRM'd media Jul 15 21:02:59 itms is drm-free now for music .. Jul 15 21:03:03 I wonder how many old ipods they broke. Jul 15 21:03:23 lurking_grue, why would they break ipods? Jul 15 21:03:42 definitely breaks syncing Jul 15 21:03:43 it is drm free now but they still probably use the same setup incase they ever have to DRM again Jul 15 21:03:48 the evice doesn't come up any more Jul 15 21:03:50 The pre pretends to be an old ipod. Jul 15 21:04:24 lurking_grue, a lot of those guys used to work for apple - so i am sure it was just remembering what they did before :) Jul 15 21:04:45 Lurking_Grue: the good thing is that copying the old .app still gets a working iTunes with sync ability Jul 15 21:05:14 the bad thing about that is that if Apple changes the format and organization of the music directory, you're incompatible with the old program Jul 15 21:05:27 Funny if palm fixes the problem quickly. Jul 15 21:05:31 I hope they actually dont' spend any time on this issue, people can still do dvd jon, Palm really needs to clean up some Pre issues instead of try to wage war against Apple in a hack race Jul 15 21:05:36 the Pre iTunes sync era is now dead Jul 15 21:06:23 psykoz: there's UI bugs that need to be fixed that are pretty annoynig Jul 15 21:06:31 bugs in general on this device is pretty annoying Jul 15 21:08:24 having really solid copy/cut/paste support would be great Jul 15 21:09:41 bugs should probably get fixed Jul 15 21:11:12 I love words like "should" Jul 15 21:11:34 that one I especially love to tell customers..."Well, it _should_ do this." Jul 15 21:13:39 ugh palm cal really needs a custom reminder time setting. 1 hr max just doens't cut it Jul 15 21:13:43 the good thing is that I still have the old iTunes Jul 15 21:14:12 the bad is that I'll never be able to run a newer iTunes if I want to keep compatibility Jul 15 21:14:26 egh iTunes is gay anyway Jul 15 21:14:41 iTunes is what a large portion of the world uses Jul 15 21:14:50 ergo... Jul 15 21:14:51 so you have to have respect for it Jul 15 21:15:32 whether it displeases people or not Jul 15 21:16:56 The interesting thing is whether this will energize the homebrew community to break it Jul 15 21:17:04 if it doesn't then it's a lost battle Jul 15 21:17:37 whatever happened to tried and true manually copying mp3s? Jul 15 21:17:37 bzhou * r10454 optware/trunk/make/bind.mk: bind: 9.5.0-P2 -> 9.6.1 Jul 15 21:17:59 mediamonkey ftw Jul 15 21:18:52 will it manage my preexisting aac-s ? Jul 15 21:20:11 sushi2: don't see an OS X image Jul 15 21:20:12 double-twist will Jul 15 21:20:17 get it instead of itunes. Jul 15 21:20:24 http://www.precentral.net/doubletwist-manages-pre-media-freely-easily-transparently Jul 15 21:20:48 bhuey: alas, there isn't one... Jul 15 21:21:08 Rick_: will it be compatible with my preexisting iTunes music hierarchy ? Jul 15 21:22:26 no idea... why not go read on it? Jul 15 21:22:29 bhuey, doubletwist uses your itunes library xml file i believe Jul 15 21:22:34 to figure out what itunes knows Jul 15 21:22:40 I suspect palm will have another volley in that war before the end of the month.... Jul 15 21:25:51 bpadalino|work: thanks Jul 15 21:26:13 Rick_: hopefully they can fix their bugs in this system soon Jul 15 21:26:40 even with the bugs, it's a fantastic device, but the competition isn't standing still Jul 15 21:30:13 doubletwist doesn't seem to work very well Jul 15 21:45:23 bzhou * r10455 optware/trunk/platforms/packages-vt4.mk: packages-vt4: demoted ERLANG_PACKAGES Jul 15 21:49:23 df -k Jul 15 21:49:29 hah Jul 15 21:57:19 IPHONES ARE THE BEST Jul 15 21:57:20 hey guys. Jul 15 22:03:52 Decimation: MOTOROLA STARTAC FTW Jul 15 22:07:37 flip phones are teh coolest Jul 15 22:10:06 wow, am I reading this wrong, or does Pre DFU srsly not allow firmware images bigger than 512 bytes to be sent? Jul 15 22:10:31 bootie isn't even that big, they must have some kinda hella small loader, but even that doesnt make sense o.O maybe hexrays fail Jul 15 22:10:45 errr, s / bootie isn't even that big / bootie isn't even that small Jul 15 22:11:09 preloader? Jul 15 22:11:30 they said the boot loader was rom I think Jul 15 22:11:48 well it goes like this Jul 15 22:11:55 omap dfu->boot.bin->bootie Jul 15 22:12:11 ok Jul 15 22:12:16 in dfu tho, if boot.bin is fucked, they probably have a recovery bootloader, or maybe they just send bootie Jul 15 22:12:20 what is boot.bin? Jul 15 22:12:25 i fail @ x86 reversing i guess Jul 15 22:12:35 boot.bin simply decompresses and runs bootie Jul 15 22:12:43 or boot.bin is not flashed Jul 15 22:12:48 huh? Jul 15 22:12:49 I would think Jul 15 22:12:58 just ram loader Jul 15 22:13:15 well, i mean if it's not there, the device will probably fallback to dfu mode Jul 15 22:13:26 and await a transfer of a firmware file via usb or serial Jul 15 22:13:31 yeah, okay Jul 15 22:13:50 where is boot.bin/bootie loaded from? sd? Jul 15 22:13:56 yeah Jul 15 22:14:08 anyone else wanna take a look? it's cpuboot that I'm looking at Jul 15 22:14:37 boot.bin is boot sctor/mbr? Jul 15 22:14:48 what does beagle do? Jul 15 22:14:56 and for some reason it appears that at the beginning of sending the firmware file to dfu in dfu_load_firmware, it will check if the size is over 512 bytes, it "trunicates" it Jul 15 22:15:02 beagle? where did you hear of that? Jul 15 22:15:16 beagleboard Jul 15 22:15:18 a beagle board, you mean? they use the same proc pretty much Jul 15 22:15:19 ah Jul 15 22:15:45 * chron hates when he presses enter after guessing something, only to have it answered a split second before :P Jul 15 22:15:47 so I guess boor.bin is sd bootsector Jul 15 22:15:54 huh? Jul 15 22:15:55 it's cool Jul 15 22:16:03 boot.bin Jul 15 22:16:12 afaik it just decompresses and runs bootie, which is the _real_ bootloader Jul 15 22:16:20 bootie is tacked on the end of boot.bin as a gzip Jul 15 22:16:30 does it end in 55AA? Jul 15 22:16:40 not sure Jul 15 22:17:14 I mean the first lba sector on the embedded sd Jul 15 22:17:29 I don't have a Pre, just the fs dump from webOS doctor :) Jul 15 22:17:39 which explains the first partition Jul 15 22:17:40 ok Jul 15 22:17:51 fs is not enough Jul 15 22:17:57 we need dd dump Jul 15 22:18:21 you don't have boot.bin? Jul 15 22:19:09 boot.bin is just a file on the fs Jul 15 22:19:13 boot / boot.bin Jul 15 22:19:20 the first partition is just device info Jul 15 22:19:38 so mmc/vfat are in the rom loader? Jul 15 22:19:42 like serial, some cdma programming related shit, and then the logos like "panic" and such Jul 15 22:19:45 drivers Jul 15 22:19:59 i don't think anyone has dumped ROM yet Jul 15 22:20:12 that would be pretty neat tho Jul 15 22:20:21 the rom is in cpu Jul 15 22:20:30 so? :P Jul 15 22:20:32 there is only the nand Jul 15 22:20:38 ok Jul 15 22:20:49 sorry Jul 15 22:20:54 there is only the sd Jul 15 22:21:18 no, but I am talking about how it would be cool if someone dumped the _ROM_ Jul 15 22:21:23 I believe omap can boot from sd and usb host Jul 15 22:21:25 the first thing that runs :P Jul 15 22:21:43 yes, sd == normal, usb host == dfu, if i understand what you are saying Jul 15 22:21:50 I think it's the same as beagle Jul 15 22:21:55 and you can dump ROM via software Jul 15 22:21:57 no Jul 15 22:22:03 lol Jul 15 22:22:07 host is storage Jul 15 22:22:12 dfu is client Jul 15 22:22:14 i did it with the iDevices all the time Jul 15 22:22:27 for ipt2, i just dumped 0x20000000 Jul 15 22:22:42 for the pre, it's probably like the 3G[s], where you need to disable mmu, and then dump 0x0 Jul 15 22:22:43 yes, unless it's protected Jul 15 22:22:54 so we need /dev/mem Jul 15 22:23:04 protected? Jul 15 22:23:25 I mean 'secure' Jul 15 22:23:25 if the miu / mmu is documented, which it probably is for omap3530, that can probably be taken care of Jul 15 22:23:35 anyway, not arguing with you Jul 15 22:23:40 i am not arguing either Jul 15 22:23:44 wait, /dev/mem? Jul 15 22:23:52 you are too far ahead :) i am thinking @ bootie level Jul 15 22:24:01 ah Jul 15 22:24:02 ;] Jul 15 22:24:11 rwhitby: why not Jul 15 22:24:13 smth like, modding a command to disable mmu then hexdump 0x0 Jul 15 22:24:15 you know that protocol Jul 15 22:24:33 I'm asking why Jul 15 22:24:41 you can, but why Jul 15 22:24:43 the "go" command will boot an unsigned bootie, so it should work in theory Jul 15 22:25:02 because, I am interested in it :P Jul 15 22:25:08 why do you need rom loader Jul 15 22:25:24 and why isn't dumping from linux good enough Jul 15 22:25:29 ok Jul 15 22:25:35 i doubt you can dump rom with kernel running Jul 15 22:25:43 you need access to 0x0 (phys) Jul 15 22:26:03 iomap? Jul 15 22:26:14 kernel module Jul 15 22:26:28 boot loader is good though Jul 15 22:26:34 it would probably be easier to patch a bootie command Jul 15 22:26:37 and _much_ more safe Jul 15 22:26:44 ah Jul 15 22:26:46 ok Jul 15 22:26:46 just go to bootie mode, and use the "go" command Jul 15 22:27:00 anyone with pre can help Jul 15 22:27:06 everything would be done in memory, no need to re-write bootie or anything Jul 15 22:27:10 I don't have one either Jul 15 22:29:13 I think on this hardware I'd be more interested in having gpu work Jul 15 22:29:25 maybe fso phonestack and X Jul 15 22:44:29 hi ya folk Jul 15 22:55:48 hi! Jul 15 22:56:11 any new excitement Jul 15 23:15:28 wsup everyone Jul 15 23:15:52 Any coders got a second check out Jul 15 23:15:53 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192932-appmenu-help.html Jul 15 23:21:45 funny, the pre/itunes thing got /.-ed Jul 15 23:24:42 everyting gets /.-ed Jul 15 23:27:55 * Jul 15 23:28:11 is 'puff' a verb or noun Jul 15 23:29:24 mount Jul 15 23:29:29 noun Jul 15 23:29:33 puffing Jul 15 23:29:35 verb Jul 15 23:29:40 to puff Jul 15 23:29:51 maybe adverb Jul 15 23:30:01 * raeb goes back to 3rd grade to find out Jul 15 23:30:07 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192932-appmenu-help.html Jul 15 23:30:34 adverb describes or modifies a verb Jul 15 23:31:11 raeb somtimes jumps high Jul 15 23:31:14 sometimes being the adverb Jul 15 23:32:31 puff is simple form of the verb, while puffing is a progressive form Jul 15 23:32:42 http://leo.stcloudstate.edu/grammar/tenses.html Jul 15 23:32:46 glad to have cleared that up. Jul 15 23:32:49 ;) Jul 15 23:36:52 grrrr Jul 15 23:36:59 stupid pidgeon read errors Jul 15 23:38:25 Is the Pre's screen an oled? Jul 15 23:38:30 i wish Jul 15 23:38:31 y Jul 15 23:38:34 but no it is not Jul 15 23:38:40 wha? Jul 15 23:38:43 lcd with backlight Jul 15 23:38:46 backlight may be LED Jul 15 23:38:51 but screen is not OLED Jul 15 23:38:52 that sux, why wouldn't they use oled? Jul 15 23:38:57 i know Jul 15 23:39:05 i wonder if i could replace it...... Jul 15 23:39:46 Robi_: you can tell, cuz on an all black image, u still see light in a dark room Jul 15 23:39:49 with oled Jul 15 23:39:51 if the screen is black Jul 15 23:39:55 there is 0 light coming from it Jul 15 23:40:00 which means Jul 15 23:40:05 we could use a few pixels to show time all the time Jul 15 23:40:09 without using very much power at all Jul 15 23:40:23 i dont agree Jul 15 23:40:29 ? Jul 15 23:40:29 with 0 light? Jul 15 23:40:42 when the phone is powering on i dont see any light cept where the logo is Jul 15 23:40:47 oled would save alot of power consumption and i believe they run very cool Jul 15 23:40:49 do it in a dark room Jul 15 23:40:50 like Jul 15 23:40:51 really dark Jul 15 23:40:58 you'll see light coming thru the black lcd pixels Jul 15 23:41:05 its a nice screen, for sure Jul 15 23:41:12 but still backlit lcd Jul 15 23:41:12 i dont plan on rebooting anytimesoon Jul 15 23:41:17 ok Jul 15 23:41:19 just sometime Jul 15 23:41:21 u know Jul 15 23:41:35 if u do have an oled palm i'm gonna b pissed amazed Jul 15 23:41:43 yea, even if the screen is completely black, there definitely still is light. Its all relative, if ur in a bright room, u wont notice; turn the lights off and its like a flashlight (well, maybe not that bad) Jul 15 23:41:43 that would also coincide with the power usage with screen on Jul 15 23:42:03 so OLED = no backlight = only the pixels in use are using power Jul 15 23:42:22 OLED = badass :) Jul 15 23:42:35 indeed, i was going to wait for the samsung omnia pro Jul 15 23:42:42 but its winmo hehe Jul 15 23:42:47 ew Jul 15 23:42:50 800x480 oled screen tho..... Jul 15 23:42:56 /drool Jul 15 23:43:01 maybe it was a cost thing? OLEDs are awesome and they cut power consumption AND heat, but i'm pretty sure they would drive the price way up Jul 15 23:43:20 holy shizzle 800x480 oled screen?! Jul 15 23:43:35 when the pre hardware was designed (a few years ago i'm sure) oled manufacturing process was hella expensive Jul 15 23:43:53 and not very reliable, the oleds had problems with lifespan Jul 15 23:44:02 they still kinda do, but your device will be obsolete before then Jul 15 23:44:26 yeah, 800x480 on a fone Jul 15 23:44:34 sheesh! Jul 15 23:44:54 oled screen is thin to, sometimes can be printed on a sheet of plastic thinner than paper and be flexible Jul 15 23:44:59 look for oled on youtube, you'll see Jul 15 23:45:07 true, i didn't realize that they designed the hardware that long ago though. It would be nice if they reviewed hardware before deciding to release phone, but i guess with Palm almost going bankrupt and everything, they were a little pressured Jul 15 23:45:33 they did review hardware. Jul 15 23:45:37 COST was a major issue. Jul 15 23:45:46 yea, i can go to the electronics store here and find 55" OLED tvs that are literally 3 inches thick! Jul 15 23:46:05 abd cist a gybzullion dollars Jul 15 23:46:09 oops Jul 15 23:46:14 switched keyboards. Jul 15 23:46:26 i would pay 100 dollas more if it had an oled screen methinks Jul 15 23:46:33 adn they look amazing, except those 240Hz algorithms they run make video look surreal. Anyway, i'm getting waaaay off track Jul 15 23:46:47 (i think the oled screen would have made it even thinner, a factor in my 100 dollar quote) Jul 15 23:47:11 i dont think OLED would have made it thinner at all Jul 15 23:47:19 no? Jul 15 23:47:21 eh, $100 difference (i think) would have destroyed the Pre's success, maybe not $50 Jul 15 23:47:24 i think most of its thickness has to do with sliter keyboard Jul 15 23:47:28 100 dollars more would have killed Palm. Jul 15 23:47:31 slider Jul 15 23:47:48 not at all? i mean you can get rid of the entire backlight layer.. and they have those thin as paper oled displays Jul 15 23:47:59 yeah, i think they could have made better use of the keyboard area too Jul 15 23:48:08 like blackberry buttons go all the way to the edge of the device Jul 15 23:48:10 yes, i'm not sure about thinner (maybe a bit), but it's the properties (less power usage and less heat output!) Jul 15 23:48:26 regardless, i love me Pre! Jul 15 23:48:28 well sure that would be a plus Jul 15 23:48:45 but switching to a .28 or .29 kernel will bring nice power saving too Jul 15 23:48:48 with nohz Jul 15 23:48:49 so would a iphone search and destroy mode, lol Jul 15 23:48:49 :D Jul 15 23:48:55 heh Jul 15 23:49:03 they need to get enterprise features goin Jul 15 23:49:05 costs like that come down to pennies for make it or break it.. Jul 15 23:49:08 .or maybe just a apple fanboy search and destroy mode, that would be muuuch better Jul 15 23:49:13 being unable to connect to exchange with advanced security kinda sux Jul 15 23:49:37 raeb: is that possible with linux in general Jul 15 23:49:49 from what i knew exhange support generally sucks in linux Jul 15 23:49:57 not palms fault Jul 15 23:50:02 duno, however Jul 15 23:50:07 palm has commited to implementing support Jul 15 23:50:09 its in the 1.1 release Jul 15 23:50:36 http://www.precentral.net/webos-11-coming-soon-exchange-improvements-tap-palm-pre Jul 15 23:50:46 has anyone tried the Character Counter mod for txt messaging? I couldn't get it to work and it seems other ppl can't either, but the creator of the mod upated his wiki page and didn't mention anything about it not working. Jul 15 23:53:32 also, anyone working on getting bluetooth keyboard/mouse working with Pre? I couldn't find anything on the wiki Jul 15 23:53:36 yeah, pre has LED backlight, no heat Jul 15 23:53:44 saves power Jul 15 23:53:54 oh! really? i thought it used CFL Jul 15 23:54:08 yeah i thought it might Jul 15 23:54:14 but good Jul 15 23:54:20 not local dimming Jul 15 23:54:29 but i wonder if thats possible thru firmware mod or something Jul 15 23:54:35 shit Jul 15 23:54:54 just updated ad-hoc wiki page with test notes Jul 15 23:55:03 woot Jul 15 23:55:11 not pretty ;-/ Jul 15 23:55:15 am i timed out? Jul 15 23:55:17 results that is Jul 15 23:55:36 bullocks Jul 16 00:05:37 call duration display stuff is nice Jul 16 00:05:51 I just "git pull" and there's an update for one of the mods I installed. Now do I just "quilt push" or do I have to uninstall first? Jul 16 00:07:31 the free version of double twist doesn't seem to work that well trying to do a sync with my rep Jul 16 00:07:35 pre Jul 16 00:08:28 .... :(, no one? Jul 16 00:09:26 nifty, i didn'tknow u could rearange the cards Jul 16 00:11:24 look at card view, hit the wallpaper, cards shrink, rearrange! Jul 16 00:16:13 yeah, wow, I didn't know Jul 16 00:16:20 but I never RTFM'd either Jul 16 00:17:16 Anyone know?: I just did "git pull" and there's an update for one of the mods I installed. Now do I just "quilt push" or do I have to uninstall first? Jul 16 00:17:34 HebrewzHammer: sorry I don't, maybe someone does Jul 16 00:17:37 me needer Jul 16 00:17:47 dam Jul 16 00:18:14 once, i found out. its going on the wiki, b/c i have been trying to find out for days now Jul 16 00:20:36 raeb: also you don't need to tap the wallpaper Jul 16 00:20:45 raeb: just tap-hold a card in the cardview Jul 16 00:20:52 ah tap hold Jul 16 00:20:55 is that a common gesture Jul 16 00:22:08 for some things yeah Jul 16 00:22:20 tap hold an icon on the launcher bar to move it around Jul 16 00:22:28 or to remove Jul 16 00:22:31 ? Jul 16 00:22:45 don't think so Jul 16 00:23:28 looks like no yeah Jul 16 00:24:23 so Jul 16 00:24:24 what now Jul 16 00:24:48 # Jul 16 00:26:56 I have to drive home but then plugin scripting ftw Jul 16 00:28:00 okay - now I want to try triggering vibrate events Jul 16 00:28:25 I've tried the sample code on the wiki (found a snippet in the radio power code) Jul 16 00:28:31 but it doesn't seem to triggger it within the app Jul 16 00:28:58 command line trigger: /usr/bin/luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.vibrate/vibrate {\"period\":500,\"duration\":1500\} works fine Jul 16 00:30:09 within the app ? Jul 16 00:30:16 yes Jul 16 00:30:21 i don't know what that means Jul 16 00:30:38 from within an application Jul 16 00:31:18 how are you trying to do that inside an application ? Jul 16 00:31:20 this.serviceRequest = new Mojo.Service.Request("palm://com.palm.vibrate", { Jul 16 00:31:20 method: 'vibrate', parameters: { 'period': 500,'duration': 1500 } Jul 16 00:31:20 }); Jul 16 00:33:24 thx destinal - can one do a second service request for a sound as well? Jul 16 00:34:01 I'm sure they don't block Jul 16 00:34:11 so you could do one then the other and they'd appear to happen at once Jul 16 00:34:42 hmm - the vibrate doesn't seem to happen Jul 16 00:34:52 hmm Jul 16 00:35:03 // Fire off a vibrate event Jul 16 00:35:04 this.serviceRequest = new Mojo.Service.Request("palm://com.palm.vibrate", { Jul 16 00:35:06 method:'vibrate', Jul 16 00:35:07 parameters:{'period': 500, 'duration': 1500 } Jul 16 00:35:09 }); Jul 16 00:35:16 sound works though Jul 16 00:35:39 // Fire off a sound event Jul 16 00:35:41 check to make sure vibrate works on the public bus and not just private, but I don't see what the problem would be Jul 16 00:35:41 this.controller.serviceRequest('palm://com.palm.audio/systemsounds', { Jul 16 00:35:42 method:"playFeedback", Jul 16 00:35:44 parameters:{ name: 'dice' } Jul 16 00:35:45 }); Jul 16 00:35:53 <3 pastebin Jul 16 00:36:19 yeah pastebin ftw Jul 16 00:36:55 sushi2: try going back to the command line and sending the same thing you did earlier on the public bus Jul 16 00:37:08 sushi sounds tasty Jul 16 00:37:27 destinal: how does one send it to the public bus instead? Jul 16 00:37:35 (didn't realize I was sending it private) Jul 16 00:37:37 leave it at the public bus stop Jul 16 00:37:48 -P Jul 16 00:38:05 by default luna-send sends on the private bus Jul 16 00:38:21 only com.palm.* apps get their messages sent on that Jul 16 00:38:38 Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"serviceName":"com.palm.vibrate","returnValue":false,"errorCode":-1,"errorText":"com.palm.vibrate is not running. Jul 16 00:38:44 yup Jul 16 00:38:46 private only Jul 16 00:38:47 darn Jul 16 00:39:15 so you have to be a true app dev to take advantage of it? Jul 16 00:39:20 nope Jul 16 00:39:23 you have to be palm Jul 16 00:39:24 or fake it Jul 16 00:39:30 ? Jul 16 00:39:34 change your namespace Jul 16 00:39:58 from org.whoever.myapp to com.palm.myapp Jul 16 00:40:14 it's lame, I know, but that'll give you private bus access Jul 16 00:41:01 it's a double standard between the special apps palm can make and the normal ones we mortals get ;) Jul 16 00:41:04 hmm - this is someone else's app - so would I have to take apart the ipk? Jul 16 00:41:16 not if its installed Jul 16 00:41:23 it's installed Jul 16 00:41:55 just mv it to com.palm.[name] ? Jul 16 00:42:10 no its in the appinfo.json i believe Jul 16 00:42:13 k Jul 16 00:42:34 ah - change the id Jul 16 00:44:02 hmph - changing the id without moving the directory seems to make the app disappear from the launcher Jul 16 00:44:32 doh Jul 16 00:44:58 try renaming the dir. if that doesn't fix it try moving it from /var/usr/palm/applications to /usr/palm/applications Jul 16 00:45:24 don't move it to /usr/palm/application Jul 16 00:45:31 i couldnt remove the app when i moved apps there Jul 16 00:45:33 that's where it was already Jul 16 00:45:39 which app was it Jul 16 00:45:39 ? Jul 16 00:45:40 I've been able to remove apps from there Jul 16 00:45:45 pdice Jul 16 00:46:03 non-palm apps are supposed to get installed to /var/usr Jul 16 00:46:10 yup yup Jul 16 00:46:29 if you do ipkg install it installs it to /usr/palm though Jul 16 00:46:29 "supposed" to Jul 16 00:46:34 ah Jul 16 00:46:40 so if I do ipkg-opt install? Jul 16 00:46:42 atlanta: do you know if you can give an app a com.palm.* namespace and still have it run in /var/usr ? Jul 16 00:46:50 don't ipkg-opt install apps Jul 16 00:46:57 apps should be installed with regular ipkg Jul 16 00:46:58 yea dont use that Jul 16 00:47:12 destinal: yea you have to change it in appinfo.json also Jul 16 00:47:13 though Jul 16 00:47:15 ok - so how do you force it to install to /var/usr instead? Jul 16 00:47:24 remount! Jul 16 00:47:27 use the palm-install.bat Jul 16 00:47:38 atlanta: he may not have sdk you insensitive clode Jul 16 00:47:41 clod Jul 16 00:47:41 lol Jul 16 00:47:46 lmfaooo Jul 16 00:47:59 well ipkg install installs to /usr/ also Jul 16 00:48:10 i didnt even hear the problem he was having lol Jul 16 00:48:11 ? Jul 16 00:48:17 sushi2: whats the problem Jul 16 00:48:25 I don't want to use the blasted palm-install.bat for everything Jul 16 00:48:26 silly really Jul 16 00:48:39 lol Jul 16 00:48:41 when I can wget directly to the device and install without dev mode enabled Jul 16 00:48:57 true Jul 16 00:48:59 ok do this Jul 16 00:49:12 this is how i did it before i start developing Jul 16 00:49:28 (I do have the sdk) Jul 16 00:49:30 just untar the data.tar.gz thats in the Jul 16 00:49:30 ;) Jul 16 00:49:35 ipk Jul 16 00:49:47 and just move the folder to /var/usr/palm/applications Jul 16 00:49:51 and restart LunaSysMgr Jul 16 00:49:54 or rescan it Jul 16 00:50:03 want the untar commands? Jul 16 00:50:15 I know those - but how to get the file from the ipk? Jul 16 00:50:31 I'm not a developer - more of a bug hunter/fixer Jul 16 00:50:51 hold on Jul 16 00:51:01 ill write the commands Jul 16 00:51:27 sushi2: why not just use the installed dir? Jul 16 00:51:39 you don't need to redo it Jul 16 00:51:59 if I ipkg install this app, it dumps it into /usr/palm/applications Jul 16 00:52:02 which is fine by me Jul 16 00:52:16 but if there is a better way, I'd love to know it Jul 16 00:52:36 sushi2: ok that's a bug Jul 16 00:52:39 I think Jul 16 00:53:08 I agree Jul 16 00:53:31 there are a couple of devs that end up in /usr/palm Jul 16 00:54:30 could be they were testing on emulator Jul 16 00:54:43 true, true Jul 16 00:54:45 emulator at least older versions of it had no /var/usr/palm Jul 16 00:55:24 ic Jul 16 00:56:03 actually Jul 16 00:56:27 can someone who has pandora check what dir its installed into? Jul 16 00:57:19 destinal: /var Jul 16 00:57:41 and it's named com.palm.pandora Jul 16 00:58:09 yea u can use palm Jul 16 00:58:23 ok. looks like app ipks may all use /usr/palm/applications/ in them Jul 16 00:58:49 and rely on palm's client side installer to put them in /var/ Jul 16 00:59:20 as long as your app id is not com.palm.*, you can freely dump apps in the /usr/palm or /var/usr/palm directories with no fear of collisions. Just use a reversed domain that you own. Jul 16 00:59:41 rwhitby: we're talking about experimentation with the private bus Jul 16 00:59:44 wierd when i have them in /usr/palm they dont remove Jul 16 01:00:01 rwhitby: for that you need to be com.palm.* Jul 16 01:00:14 they remove atlanta Jul 16 01:00:23 I've done it Jul 16 01:00:25 destinal: seriously? have we found out where that check is done? Jul 16 01:00:35 rwhitby: not yet Jul 16 01:01:04 the check on Jul 16 01:01:05 ? Jul 16 01:01:13 but anything com.palm.* sends out goes over the private bus, anything else over public Jul 16 01:01:26 oh ok Jul 16 01:01:27 and vibrate is on the private Jul 16 01:01:28 this is what allows the stock apps to change your settings and prevents third party apps from doing so Jul 16 01:01:34 vibrate privates Jul 16 01:01:36 ha Jul 16 01:01:38 anyway Jul 16 01:01:41 yea they had to allow pandora over the private bus to access the streaming stuff Jul 16 01:01:45 luna-send uses public by default and private only with -P Jul 16 01:01:52 atlanta: right so thus com.palm.pandora Jul 16 01:01:53 :( Jul 16 01:01:59 I don't like it Jul 16 01:01:59 indeed Jul 16 01:02:04 me either Jul 16 01:02:06 so perhaps one could tap the palm DBs with the private code as well... Jul 16 01:02:14 i thought i had the so files that call them once but Jul 16 01:02:17 was a no go Jul 16 01:02:39 alrighty - my problem is solved - thanks again to all for the help - off to watch geeky movies Jul 16 01:02:56 sushi2: you can vibrate on com.palm.* then? Jul 16 01:03:03 yes sir Jul 16 01:03:28 weird that's a private only function Jul 16 01:04:14 there must be some other more appropriate notification call that doesn't need the private bus but will end up vibrating (maybe with less granularity of control over pulse modulation) Jul 16 01:05:09 bbl Jul 16 01:06:13 driving bbl Jul 16 01:07:21 Anybody have experience with the "Sorry, Not Enough Memory" error? Jul 16 01:09:01 i know tweed just added vibrate functions Jul 16 01:09:05 anyone checked that out Jul 16 01:09:05 ? Jul 16 01:09:44 I would, but uh...well, my phone says its out of space :) Jul 16 01:10:32 Not thrilled that the best solution I can find on Google is to do a full erase...which doesn't even necessarily work. Jul 16 01:12:18 Is the dbus restriction based on the app id, or the dbus interface name? Jul 16 01:14:34 tehnoir: whats your problem Jul 16 01:14:56 If I try to install an app from the app catalog I get "Sorry, Not Enough Memory" Jul 16 01:15:11 Goes on to say "Please delete an application you have installed to make room." Jul 16 01:15:23 But it shouldn't be anywhere near full. Jul 16 01:18:00 df shows that /media/internal has 5.7GB available. Jul 16 01:23:19 tehnoir: it doesnt use /media/internal for space Jul 16 01:23:22 how much does / hav e Jul 16 01:23:23 ? Jul 16 01:23:48 Size: 442M Used: 369M Avail: 74M 84% / Jul 16 01:24:03 wierd Jul 16 01:24:51 Which, if that's where apps get installed, it'd probably run out very quickly. Jul 16 01:25:55 yup Jul 16 01:25:55 yup Jul 16 01:26:35 How much space is usually available to /? Jul 16 01:26:44 im not sure if it makes it though Jul 16 01:27:00 rwhitby: do you know if it maps your installed apps Jul 16 01:27:00 ? Jul 16 01:27:29 we put optware under /var Jul 16 01:27:38 dunno whether other homebrewers put their apps Jul 16 01:30:00 I thought app store apps installed themselves under /var/palm/applications/... Jul 16 01:32:13 atlanta: Can you look to see how big your / is? Jul 16 01:32:33 rootfs 452296 379468 72828 84% / Jul 16 01:32:35 same thing Jul 16 01:32:36 lol Jul 16 01:32:49 Well crap. Jul 16 01:32:52 Heh. Jul 16 01:33:33 They're under /var/usr/palm/applications Jul 16 01:34:01 How big is your /var? Jul 16 01:34:04 yea thats where they suppose to be Jul 16 01:34:25 \/dev/mapper/store-var 253920 160568 93352 63% /var Jul 16 01:34:34 yours Jul 16 01:34:34 ? Jul 16 01:34:42 Can you add the -h option to df? :) Jul 16 01:34:44 I'm tarded. Jul 16 01:35:03 \/dev/mapper/store-var 248.0M 156.8M 91.2M 63% /var Jul 16 01:35:19 Size: 248M Used:195M Avail: 54M 79% /var Jul 16 01:35:42 So they really only allocate 248M to apps? Jul 16 01:36:17 Hi, I'm trying to setup bash on my pre but when I enter "sudo echo -e "# /etc/shells: valid login shells\n/opt/bin/bash\n/bin/sh" >/etc/shells" I get "-sh: cannot create /ect/shells: Permission denied" Jul 16 01:37:02 yeah so Pre is fail with certain IMAP servers :/ Jul 16 01:37:04 Well /ect is not a direcotry :P Jul 16 01:37:20 I meant /etc Jul 16 01:37:23 lawl Jul 16 01:37:23 Ah, okay. Jul 16 01:37:29 Wasn't sure if you copied and pasted. Jul 16 01:37:45 do sudo -i Jul 16 01:37:47 enter password Jul 16 01:37:50 and you will be root Jul 16 01:37:57 ok Jul 16 01:38:00 Ill try that now Jul 16 01:38:01 thanks Jul 16 01:38:03 np Jul 16 01:38:10 tehnoir: i dunno what palm doing Jul 16 01:38:10 lol Jul 16 01:38:26 k, that worked Jul 16 01:38:29 awesome Jul 16 01:38:35 Well we're certainly getting nowhere very quickly :) Jul 16 01:38:47 lol Jul 16 01:39:17 I found it interesting that when Googling for it, somebody who claims to have not hacked their Pre is having the issue. Jul 16 01:41:01 Can we use ipkg to list everything installed on the Pre? Jul 16 01:42:29 Got it: ipkg status Jul 16 02:22:00 how do I uninstall an app that I installed via email attachment? Jul 16 02:22:09 I installed tetris, and installed the latest version and the old version is still there Jul 16 02:22:14 the keyboard keys + click doesn't work Jul 16 02:23:07 do u have root on your phone Jul 16 02:23:08 ? Jul 16 02:23:20 yeah Jul 16 02:25:44 anyone? Jul 16 02:28:31 how do I uninstall an app if the delete option isn't available on the phone? Jul 16 02:31:33 u have to root it Jul 16 02:31:39 and remove the directory Jul 16 02:31:49 how do I find the directory? Jul 16 02:31:54 the app is either in /usr/palm/applications Jul 16 02:31:55 or Jul 16 02:32:02 s Jul 16 02:32:12 /var/usr/palm/applications Jul 16 02:32:19 what is the command to list all the directories? Jul 16 02:35:32 ls Jul 16 02:35:39 =) Jul 16 02:35:53 ok thanks Jul 16 02:36:32 has anyone here tried compiling a custom kernel for this yet? Jul 16 02:37:00 how do I remove a directory? Jul 16 02:37:05 :( heh Jul 16 02:37:43 umm you probably do not want to be mucking around if you do not know your way around things. Jul 16 02:37:51 hey, were can I get the build #2 of Active Home Screen? Jul 16 02:37:54 well I've had no problems using root so far... Jul 16 02:38:03 remount rw Jul 16 02:38:07 I just need to know how to remove some directories tied to an application Jul 16 02:46:09 what's going on? Jul 16 02:54:36 what directory do you want to remove? Jul 16 02:54:55 JamesBaud You'll have to ask the guy who wrote it. He's never been in here. Jul 16 02:55:31 commandercup -- what directory? Jul 16 02:56:02 * Rick__ talking to himself again.... **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 16 02:59:57 2009