**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 16 02:59:57 2009 Jul 16 03:00:33 evening all Jul 16 03:01:26 I see iTunes got updated today Jul 16 03:01:40 yes Jul 16 03:01:49 did they do the dirty deed? Jul 16 03:02:21 Pre has been blocked from iTunes syncing Jul 16 03:02:26 I assume that's what you mean Jul 16 03:02:26 lame sauce. Jul 16 03:02:29 yea Jul 16 03:02:56 and it's apparently Pre specific, and not just an iPod thing Jul 16 03:03:02 which means it'll be harder to get around Jul 16 03:03:57 anyone figure out what they did to block it? Jul 16 03:05:02 I don't know of anyone looking Jul 16 03:05:16 eh I'll bet that Palm is poking around Jul 16 03:06:04 it's an arms race. Block, emulate, block, emulate. The iphone jailbreakers should, by now, have taught apple that this is pointless. Jul 16 03:06:13 haha yeah Jul 16 03:06:20 summatusmentis: It's probably an ipod thing actually Jul 16 03:06:32 no, that would probably require a firmware update Jul 16 03:06:32 they can't exclude pre specifically or that could get them in legal trouble Jul 16 03:06:43 instead they'll look for apple usb id's at the root of the device Jul 16 03:07:41 and I don't know whether that's software modifiable on the pre's platform Jul 16 03:08:14 i would assume it's software since it emulates different USB devices at different times Jul 16 03:08:19 also, what else might it break? Jul 16 03:08:32 freakshow: it can emulate different devices beneath its OWN root Jul 16 03:08:39 but it never changes the root so who knows really Jul 16 03:08:46 ah ok Jul 16 03:09:17 also this device faking would break the USB standard but some have pointed out it's probably that the pre was never USB certified Jul 16 03:09:29 the only USB logo used is the old one which is apparently free-for-all Jul 16 03:09:41 haha Jul 16 03:14:46 http://nanocr.eu/2009/06/04/palm-pre-usb-hack-confirmed/ Jul 16 03:16:04 well, guess the only thing to do is chill out on 8.2 until someone finds a workaround Jul 16 03:16:12 I like how apple calls them "important bug fixes" Jul 16 03:17:24 compatibility is certainly a bug Jul 16 03:17:26 for apple Jul 16 03:17:52 at least in the iPod system Jul 16 03:18:14 love my macbook pro, but not averse to using Windows Jul 16 03:18:51 idiots on the forums are acting like it's a crime to change your usb id Jul 16 03:20:00 sub nodes aren't, are they? I know the BB will change to mass storage mode when asked and mount it Jul 16 03:20:59 yeah but in my opinion, interoperability = good Jul 16 03:21:16 exactly, not like it was going to kill the iphone's momentum at all Jul 16 03:21:32 wonder if Palm will take any legal action Jul 16 03:23:21 I liked the quote by seth on that forum: "I think it’s scandalous that users have sympathy for anyone who deliberately tries to break interoperability of products, let alone lining up to cheer on the use of the legal system to crush competitors. Things that can interoperate should interoperate. When someone makes them fail to interoperate, that’s breaking a product; restoring interoperability is fixing breakage. " Jul 16 03:23:56 I think he has a platform based on interoperability. just a hunch. Jul 16 03:24:03 apple sucks don't use them :) Jul 16 03:24:15 freakshow: I don't know, where'd you get that idea ;) Jul 16 03:24:19 that's called being a fanboi @bdumm Jul 16 03:24:29 My guess is pre will work with itunes after next patch Jul 16 03:24:45 freakshow, whatever i've disliked apple since the 80s, fanboi lol Jul 16 03:25:34 haha yeah, idk. grew up on Macs, work with Windows all day. both are good for what they are Jul 16 03:25:49 that they are :) Jul 16 03:26:14 and, no bdumm, the mac's uses do not include coasters and/or paperweights :D Jul 16 03:26:31 they are good @ that Jul 16 03:27:13 though they do make great cake cutters for higher-ups at HP Jul 16 03:27:18 * rwhitby thinks windows, linux, mac, iphones, pre's are all just tools. means to an end, not an end in themselves. you use the tool you need at any particular time to get the end that you desire. Jul 16 03:27:42 rwhitby, wish it was so, but some tools are "better" than others Jul 16 03:27:52 and I don't mean in terms of improved functionality.... Jul 16 03:28:18 only where "better" achieves the end goal, not based on some ideology regarding who made the tool. that's my stance. Jul 16 03:28:26 @bdumm, I'm more productive on a mac just because I know the ins and outs of it. I'm sure you know a few tricks in Windows/Linux/whatever you use that i'd learn Jul 16 03:29:47 freakshow, i was sorta happy apple used a *nix till I had to use it... :\ Jul 16 03:30:17 rwhitby, if the end goal is a walled in whatever, then i guess so :) Jul 16 03:30:40 mac os x isn't exactly a walled-in garden...? Jul 16 03:30:41 bdumm: protocols and apps are separate from OS's. Jul 16 03:31:10 I run run an open source app and protocol just as well on any of windows, linux, macosx, solaris, qnx, .... Jul 16 03:31:47 I can run linux, windows and macos on any of PC, Mac, or Sun hardware. Jul 16 03:32:09 exactly Jul 16 03:32:23 well what started this discussion was apple-pre-their fix right? Jul 16 03:32:34 and those OSes are not open, they are walled off, ie iphone/ipod etc Jul 16 03:32:35 haha Jul 16 03:32:51 right, so talk about the non-open iTunes protocol, not the hardware or OS it runs on. Jul 16 03:32:54 so the protocols/apps are not seperate, open etc Jul 16 03:33:10 i said apple sucks don't use them :) Jul 16 03:33:13 http://www.salling.com/MediaSync/windows/ Jul 16 03:33:33 freakshow started with all the OS talk :) Jul 16 03:33:45 haha no problem Jul 16 03:33:48 I do what I can Jul 16 03:33:58 that will sync like itunes Jul 16 03:34:00 bdumm: if some tool from apple sucks, don't use the tool. if some tool from linux sucks, don't use that one either. Jul 16 03:34:09 its obviously always a touchy subject... :) Jul 16 03:34:32 * rwhitby is not a fanboy for linux or windows or macos, they are all just tools to be used to achieve end goals. Jul 16 03:34:34 haha no, I just can't stand when people take sides Jul 16 03:34:35 rwhitby, i don't. i just haven't found any apple tools i've liked Jul 16 03:34:54 and i've tried to be open/try many different apple tools, but thats just me :) Jul 16 03:35:00 bdumm: great, but why do you feel the need to tell other people not to use tools that do work for them? Jul 16 03:35:24 anti-fanboyism is just as bad as fanboyism Jul 16 03:35:32 @robi interesting link... Jul 16 03:37:09 people seem to have a need to evangelise their choice of tools onto others, when they should just choose the tools that work for them and get on with the job instead. Jul 16 03:38:11 rwhitby: Stallman would hate you so ;) Jul 16 03:38:18 haha Jul 16 03:38:43 not that I think Stallman is... er... Jul 16 03:38:49 sane or anything Jul 16 03:38:52 JackieRipper: I've discussed this with Stallman 10 years ago Jul 16 03:39:35 the open source world needs people like stallman, but only a very few of them ... Jul 16 03:39:42 * psykoz grins Jul 16 03:40:06 I love my favorite stallman quote, it's int he man pages for 'su' and discusses why he thinks the wheel group that BSD utilizes is such a bad idea Jul 16 03:40:10 Whenever I need to be reminded that Stallman is insane, I google sudo man su Jul 16 03:41:29 but that may be that I work with Unix in a corporate environment Jul 16 03:42:03 and I *am* one of those evil "sysadmins" Jul 16 03:42:19 rwhitby, sorry phone, i guess same reason other accuse folks of it being a crime to change a usb id, or others to call those folks idiots, ie it is my opinion, you want to avoid the apple hassle, don't use them, i think they suck doesn't make me an anti-fanboi Jul 16 03:42:29 wheel ftw Jul 16 03:43:14 bdumm: you mean don't use iTunes (the tool) rather than don't use anything Apple (the anti-fanboyism) Jul 16 03:43:40 well as i said, i've yet to find an apple tool i like, i think they all suck Jul 16 03:43:44 I've been wondering if the pre would sync with rhythmbox Jul 16 03:44:02 I synced mine with banshee Jul 16 03:44:04 @JackieRipper, probably since it's just a mass storage device Jul 16 03:44:07 as rhythmbox is supposed to sync with ipods and iphones Jul 16 03:44:16 freakshow: I mean in media sync mode Jul 16 03:44:34 bdumm: anyway, we should continue this in #webos-watercooler, not here. Jul 16 03:44:39 it's the other side of emulation - rhythmbox emulates itunes Jul 16 03:45:23 alrighty ladies and gents I'm out for the night, glad I could start up a battle of the OSes :D Jul 16 03:47:49 * rwhitby doesn't battle OS's - I use them all regularly. Jul 16 03:49:49 rwhitby: So I started making updates to the bootstrap script Jul 16 03:50:18 checking to see if each step has already been performed before executing it Jul 16 03:51:13 JackieRipper: excellent - we need to start getting other people here to test it Jul 16 03:51:20 yes Jul 16 03:51:26 it's scary, though Jul 16 03:51:55 hech, had I not written it, *I* probably wouldn't try it until it had been tested a few times by others ;) Jul 16 03:52:34 i gotta go take my phone to sprint Jul 16 03:52:40 a corner cracked Jul 16 03:52:49 $50 co payment Jul 16 03:52:50 :/ Jul 16 03:53:13 when it comes to installing packages, it compares the installed version (if any) vs the available version, and if it's not installed, or if there's an upgrade available, it installs it Jul 16 03:55:25 rwhitby: what do you think of a "dos-like" optional profile? alias dir="ls" etc? Jul 16 04:00:41 okay, I almost have the cross compile env set up but time for din-din with the gf Jul 16 04:02:15 JackieRipper: DOS-like profiles are an evil crutch and just prevent learning unix Jul 16 04:02:33 agreed... but it may help n00bs Jul 16 04:02:43 :) Jul 16 04:02:45 but n00bs will be more helped by staying out of the shell Jul 16 04:02:48 or learning linux Jul 16 04:03:13 dir is usually ls -lh Jul 16 04:03:21 or nothing Jul 16 04:27:44 maybe found a way to tweak wifi power usage Jul 16 04:41:29 JackieRipper is your shell script ready to be made the main-line method on the wiki? Jul 16 04:41:38 and all that freaking typing go away? Jul 16 04:41:42 please pretty please? Jul 16 04:41:44 Robi_: oh? Jul 16 04:41:51 Rick... it works Jul 16 04:41:57 I know it does. Jul 16 04:42:12 that being said, to my knowledge, I'm the only one who has done it Jul 16 04:42:13 So, are you ready to raise your hand and say "yes Rick. Mainline it." Jul 16 04:42:21 tmzt: just look at the ad-hoc page Jul 16 04:42:24 I did it. Jul 16 04:42:29 ahh cool Jul 16 04:42:36 it worked. Jul 16 04:42:49 Rick, I'd wait one more day... I'm 7/8 through a rewrite Jul 16 04:42:57 a bunch more error checking Jul 16 04:43:03 ok fine. Jul 16 04:43:23 checks to see if each step has already been done before it doe it Jul 16 04:43:23 then it goes on to the webos-internals.org server.... and we change the instructions from all that typing to Jul 16 04:43:26 does* Jul 16 04:43:44 wget webos-internals.org/setMeUp.sh Jul 16 04:43:50 ./setMeUp.sh Jul 16 04:43:52 :-) Jul 16 04:44:01 i had a question about installing apps on a non-rooted pre Jul 16 04:44:02 ok Jul 16 04:44:05 this is so good. Jul 16 04:44:13 In the middle: chmod +x setMeUp.sh Jul 16 04:44:18 i am about to package up my app and i know i am going to be making future versions of it Jul 16 04:44:20 ok Jul 16 04:44:26 and before: cd /tmp Jul 16 04:44:30 :) Jul 16 04:44:30 however, i dont want multiple icons for the same thing on my pres desktop Jul 16 04:44:34 tont, what does it do again? Jul 16 04:44:37 I agree, it's way simpler Jul 16 04:44:44 how do i go about avoiding running into that issue? Jul 16 04:45:03 Rick_: its a puzzle game called 5 or more Jul 16 04:45:06 tont, as long as the com.something.appname stays the same when it's installed, it overwrites the previous Jul 16 04:45:22 anyone that has ubuntu installed should have it on there :P Jul 16 04:45:27 and version number doesn't matter. Jul 16 04:45:44 as long as the ID stays the same? Jul 16 04:46:04 title wont affect it or anything? Jul 16 04:46:11 you can install 1.0 and mod it and install 1.0 and mod it etc and it always overwrites. as long as the name of the app stays the same. the com.something.appname that whole string in appinfo.json Jul 16 04:46:30 title doesn't matter. Jul 16 04:46:33 nothing else mattes. Jul 16 04:46:36 just the appname Jul 16 04:47:08 awesome Jul 16 04:47:25 have you not installed yours 10 or 20 or 30 times during the development process? Jul 16 04:47:47 actually (and im afraid) i have "completed" the game on the emulator Jul 16 04:47:51 havent put it on the pre yet Jul 16 04:48:17 yeah, but every time you upload to the emulator, you're doing the exact same thing as uploading to the pre. Jul 16 04:48:24 ahh Jul 16 04:48:31 well yeah Jul 16 04:48:39 i noticed that i had like 3 icons on t he emulator now Jul 16 04:48:45 tont, it'll be fine, as long as you made your touch targets at least 25px and 35 is better and 45 is optimal. Jul 16 04:48:55 thats why i asked. dont want that crap on the pre Jul 16 04:48:56 you probably got like 3 appnames Jul 16 04:49:28 ssh into the emulator and delete the directories from /var/usr/palm/applications Jul 16 04:49:43 or, just use the list menu and delete them that way.... Jul 16 04:50:05 list menu? Jul 16 04:51:21 also, if i want to delete it from the actual pre, would i have to root it?/ Jul 16 04:54:49 hey guys, just joined this channel and was looking for just a little help Jul 16 04:55:08 k Jul 16 04:55:09 tont - bring up the app launcher Jul 16 04:55:19 go to the menu for the app launcher in the upper left Jul 16 04:55:26 pick "list installed apps" Jul 16 04:55:28 click on one Jul 16 04:55:31 Choose DELETE Jul 16 04:55:33 and poof. Jul 16 04:55:57 on a real pre, do the same thing or.... Hold down the orange key and click the icon for the app. say "yes delete the damned thing" and poof Jul 16 04:56:13 italiano what's your question? Jul 16 04:56:16 sweet! Jul 16 04:56:17 thanks :) Jul 16 04:57:04 nevermind rick, thanks, i solved my own problem..after fiddling with it all day...ironic how i solve it right as I'm about to ask for help Jul 16 04:57:24 italiano: im amazing at doingg that :P Jul 16 04:57:38 we call that toothache-dentist syndrome. Jul 16 04:58:03 actually I guess I do have a question Jul 16 04:58:20 generally we either got answers or we blow hard. Jul 16 04:58:22 I've done a bunch of the wikidot and precentral hacks and added a bunch of apps Jul 16 04:58:28 nodnod Jul 16 04:58:47 and what I thought was a problem was that I couldn't delete any of the apps I installed Jul 16 04:58:54 I forgot I threw it into developer mode Jul 16 04:59:01 and now I'm able to delete these apps Jul 16 04:59:23 I guess this is the only way? Why is that that I couldn't delete them without dev mode being on? Jul 16 05:06:16 you pprobably installed them into /usr/palm/applications instead of into /var/usr/palm/applications Jul 16 05:06:19 which is wrong Jul 16 05:06:35 when you are installling the apps, can you specify where they go/ Jul 16 05:06:36 ? Jul 16 05:07:44 you can specify when you build the ipk Jul 16 05:07:50 * Rick__ off to bed Jul 16 05:07:56 How would I specify? I installed them via root by typing in putty Jul 16 05:07:59 cd / Jul 16 05:08:05 cd /media/internal/applications/ Jul 16 05:08:16 ipkg install myapplication.ipk Jul 16 05:08:50 is there a way to install to var/ this way? Or are the developers the ones that need to be aware of this Jul 16 05:09:04 this is what im concerned with right now Jul 16 05:09:05 hehe Jul 16 05:09:13 i wish Rick_ wasnt hte only one who talked in here Jul 16 05:09:14 heh Jul 16 05:10:39 hi Jul 16 05:11:13 hey Jul 16 05:11:24 hi Jul 16 05:12:03 any fun pre projects in the works? Jul 16 05:12:22 nope just fun pre problems! Jul 16 05:12:36 rick isn't the only one who talks, Rick is the only one talking _now_ Jul 16 05:12:44 there was a lot of folks earlier. Jul 16 05:12:46 really Jul 16 05:12:51 i want to talk Jul 16 05:13:02 haha i just dont have anything in particular to talk about Jul 16 05:13:11 are you running into an issue italiano Jul 16 05:13:23 someone shoudl talk about how to make sure you install your app to the correct directory Jul 16 05:13:23 hehe Jul 16 05:13:39 if you use the palm-package batch file, you're fine. Jul 16 05:13:44 if you want to talk, but don't have anything on-topic to say, there's #webos-watercooler .... Jul 16 05:13:54 * Rick__ REALLY to bed now Jul 16 05:14:00 oo cool deal Jul 16 05:14:03 tont: look at the ipkg documentation for the alternate root support Jul 16 05:16:42 Tont and I have the same problem Jul 16 05:16:50 well i dont have the problem yet Jul 16 05:16:55 where am I going wrong doing this: Jul 16 05:17:01 id like t o avoid the problem but id like to put my app on my pre Jul 16 05:17:02 heeh Jul 16 05:17:03 cd /media/internal/applications/ Jul 16 05:17:09 ipkg install myapplication.ipk Jul 16 05:17:32 italiano: ipkg does not care which directory you are in when you run it Jul 16 05:17:35 (ive already put the myapplication in the 'applications' folder through USB) Jul 16 05:17:42 that does not control where the app is installed Jul 16 05:17:53 so how do I control where it is installed Jul 16 05:18:11 Yeah, all i'm doing is telling it to install the file i specify Jul 16 05:18:12 search for the ipkg documentation for the alternate root support Jul 16 05:18:35 okay, rather stupid question I'm sure, but many guides include commands such as 'initctl stop ' or just 'stop ', but my terminal has no access to either of these commands. What am I missing? Jul 16 05:19:55 How do I specify through putty to install to /var/ rather than not to var? Jul 16 05:21:26 what about FTP Jul 16 05:21:37 using Winscp Jul 16 05:21:55 can you justout the install folder for the app where you wish through winscp Jul 16 05:22:15 put* Jul 16 05:22:30 LESKA: you need to be logged in as root, with the correct path Jul 16 05:24:15 ... I don't know why it wasn't working, before 'which stop' was blank, killing the ssh session and restarting seemed to fix it Jul 16 05:25:10 Well rwhitby... using WinSCP would allow you to directly put the app folder in whatever directory you wish. but apps can only run out of ony the var applicatoins and usr applications right? Jul 16 05:25:48 Jack87: are you talking about an exploded app folder, or an ipkg file? Jul 16 05:27:16 exploded... you would have to unpackage it and put the app directory in manualy Jul 16 05:27:47 just an idea for these guys if they want to simply install their app and be able to remove it easily after testing Jul 16 05:37:09 bzhou * r10456 optware/trunk/ (make/faad2.mk sources/faad2/ sources/faad2/libtool22.patch): faad2: patched to build with libtool >= 2.2 Jul 16 05:45:17 yo ah Jul 16 05:45:21 whats good. Jul 16 05:45:26 thanks cia Jul 16 05:46:52 w/b jack Jul 16 05:46:58 yesss Jul 16 05:48:45 yo sup tlz Jul 16 05:49:02 im looking for global search updates on ah... gitorious Jul 16 05:50:01 is that palm stuff ://// Jul 16 05:51:08 hi oc Jul 16 05:51:18 so I followed the steps for "New Cards for Each Messaging Conversation" and now the new cards it opens are blank so I can't text. I didnt make a backup of the file. Can someone tell me what the file said by default? Jul 16 05:51:28 are you talking to me or another jack Jul 16 05:59:08 anybody know or could tell me? maybe send me a copy of the default file? Jul 16 05:59:30 maybe I could just get it from the SDK Jul 16 05:59:35 this is incredible the kind of upgrades that have already been made with little effort Jul 16 05:59:52 what do you mean tmzt Jul 16 06:00:00 i can send you my files.. they are not stock Jul 16 06:00:06 like the text thing Jul 16 06:00:26 what are the upgrades to text you speak of Jul 16 06:00:40 http://predev.wikidot.com/carded-messaging Jul 16 06:00:43 mine have the timestamp flak Jul 16 06:00:53 bzhou * r10457 optware/trunk/make/fetchmail.mk: fetchmail: 6.3.9 -> 6.3.10 Jul 16 06:00:54 thats fine Jul 16 06:00:57 think about the work that would be needed to do that on android or iPhone Jul 16 06:00:58 I only need that one portion Jul 16 06:01:14 (with source) Jul 16 06:02:39 hello Jul 16 06:05:06 flak give me a momment i will get it shortly.. Jul 16 06:05:13 sure thing Jul 16 06:05:13 shoot me an email at akop87@gmail.com Jul 16 06:05:18 thanks for the help Jul 16 06:07:40 no problem Jul 16 06:07:57 Check your credit card bills.. watch out for that quadrillion dollar charge.. - http://bit.ly/8rHg Jul 16 06:08:00 hey im not breaking any rules by agreeing to send file to flak am i? Jul 16 06:08:16 if so you might want to join me in #webos channel Jul 16 06:08:30 :) Jul 16 06:08:55 I think the optware-bootstrap.sh rewrite is all set Jul 16 06:10:28 so are we going to #webos? Jul 16 06:11:51 flak what file is it Jul 16 06:12:01 /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/controllers/listview-assistant.js Jul 16 06:12:50 Jack1987: um, #webos channel has Palm employees as ops, so it's even worse to do it there. Jul 16 06:12:59 I just found it in the emulator so I dont necessarily need it anymore Jul 16 06:13:02 just get the file out of the doctor Jul 16 06:13:32 oh. Jul 16 06:13:36 i got it for you haha Jul 16 06:13:59 whats your email addy ill send it over incase the emulator one doesnt do the trick Jul 16 06:14:11 01.flakmonkey.10@gmail.com Jul 16 06:14:18 thanks for the help Jul 16 06:14:43 can i copy text on mirc? Jul 16 06:16:48 Jack1987: yes Jul 16 06:16:59 bzhou * r10458 optware/trunk/platforms/packages-vt4.mk: packages-vt4: removed duplicated erlang erl-yaws Jul 16 06:17:32 Jack1987: I believe simply highlighting the text "copys" it - no need for ctrl-c or right-clicking Jul 16 06:17:42 it's been a while since I've used it Jul 16 06:19:49 awesome thanks jackie Jul 16 06:19:56 flak i sent you email Jul 16 06:20:07 thanks Jul 16 06:21:53 jackie... how do i send a message reflected to a person like you did for me there Jul 16 06:22:56 bzhou * r10459 optware/trunk/make/lame.mk: lame: avoid picking up gtk devel files on build machine Jul 16 06:22:59 bzhou * r10460 optware/trunk/make/mpd.mk: mpd: 0.15 -> 0.15.1 Jul 16 06:26:29 sorry jackie did you send me a reply Jul 16 06:32:01 does anyone know if there is any personal info storred in any of the app directorys Jul 16 06:32:07 such as browser or contacts Jul 16 06:32:09 hmm Jul 16 06:32:12 or is that all stored somewhere else Jul 16 06:32:19 u can always grep Jul 16 06:32:27 what is grep Jul 16 06:32:44 grep will find a string in a file Jul 16 06:32:50 or from output Jul 16 06:33:05 eg; ps aux | grep luna Jul 16 06:33:06 jacko87: http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?grep (man page for grep) Jul 16 06:33:14 eg; cat /etc/passwd | grep root Jul 16 06:33:20 hum... Jul 16 06:33:32 i been using winscp to browse the file system Jul 16 06:33:49 or: find | grep -i pandora Jul 16 06:33:52 lets say if i take an app such as the messaging app anf put it on my computer Jul 16 06:33:53 * oc80z looking for global addons patch Jul 16 06:34:13 will that also take all my messages or contact info or is that stored somewhere else Jul 16 06:35:03 normally, that would be stored elsewhere (so far that I see) Jul 16 06:36:11 ... Jul 16 06:36:12 hr Jul 16 06:36:19 is that global addons palm code Jul 16 06:37:25 Jack1987: Your text messages are stored in a database Jul 16 06:37:43 sure Jul 16 06:37:55 to be specific, /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 Jul 16 06:38:11 com_palm_messaging_data_ChatThread Jul 16 06:38:29 im at a coffee shop having connection issues damn it Jul 16 06:38:47 anyway susi i dont think i got your reply about contacts app from one pre to the other Jul 16 06:39:23 are you trying to copy contacts from one pre to another jacko? Jul 16 06:39:26 Jack1987: Your text messages are stored in a database, to be specific, /var/luna/data/dbdata/PalmDatabase.db3 ... com_palm_messaging_data_ChatThread Jul 16 06:39:35 oops Jul 16 06:39:49 thanks jackie Jul 16 06:39:57 *shrug* Jul 16 06:40:01 no i am trying to copy contacts app Jul 16 06:40:29 or messaging app or any app for that matter without personal info being transffered with it Jul 16 06:40:41 jacko1987: to make your own? Jul 16 06:40:43 like favorits in the browser app Jul 16 06:41:04 well incase someone messes up moding an ap Jul 16 06:41:05 app Jul 16 06:41:19 ahhh Jul 16 06:41:27 if i copy my whole app directory and send it to em will they have the personal stuff within the app or just the app Jul 16 06:41:30 jacko1987: The applications are in /usr/palm/applications, and contain strictly static content Jul 16 06:41:39 just the app Jacko Jul 16 06:41:40 i dunno where all the data is kept Jul 16 06:41:50 variable data, for the most part, is stored in /var Jul 16 06:41:52 thats what i assumed jackie i wasnt sure. thank you Jul 16 06:41:54 thanks guys Jul 16 06:42:02 oops Jul 16 06:42:12 you could also run an rysnc and make a backup of the device to the "internal" storage Jul 16 06:42:13 hey ah Jul 16 06:42:16 is webos doctor 1.04 now?> Jul 16 06:42:22 I should have said *stock* applicatiopns are in /usr/palm/applications Jul 16 06:42:48 and that is a read-only file system, so your personal data won't be there Jul 16 06:43:05 oc80z: yes it is Jul 16 06:43:07 (http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions) Jul 16 06:43:17 copy that Jul 16 06:43:25 do you know where the personal data is kept Jul 16 06:43:44 jacko1987: probably in sqlite3 db's Jul 16 06:43:46 downloadable applications are in /var/usr/palm/applications, and that is a read-write file system, so personal data *could* be stored in there, but almost certainly is not Jul 16 06:43:51 which ones, I don't know Jul 16 06:43:55 jacko1987: multiple places Jul 16 06:44:08 jacko1987: for example /var/luna/data/dbdata Jul 16 06:44:24 but not in each individual app directory is what i am understanding Jul 16 06:44:27 the 'internal storage' is vfat filesystem Jul 16 06:44:29 correct Jul 16 06:44:39 at least for the current app set Jul 16 06:44:42 got it. thanks a lot guys Jul 16 06:44:43 sushi2: you know there's got to be another api for vibrating notifications besides the private-only one Jul 16 06:44:55 off to bed Jul 16 06:44:59 have a good one Jul 16 06:45:02 lata jRip Jul 16 06:45:04 destinal: probably right Jul 16 06:45:11 later jackie Jul 16 06:45:21 i think im going to webos doctor and put w/e back with gitorious's updates Jul 16 06:45:22 sushi2: the other one probably won't let you control precise pulse stuff Jul 16 06:45:25 tohugh Jul 16 06:45:26 though Jul 16 06:45:37 backed up most of my stuff, but damn Jul 16 06:45:53 no idea why i am out of application room Jul 16 06:46:42 with sftp Jul 16 06:46:48 you can back up all your stock apps to your pc Jul 16 06:46:59 all the stock apps add up to over 25mb Jul 16 06:47:04 yea Jul 16 06:47:14 i made some global search addon, modifications Jul 16 06:47:18 like m.break.com, and youtube.com Jul 16 06:47:21 ok really going to bed now Jul 16 06:47:25 lies Jul 16 06:47:28 lata d Jul 16 06:47:31 what sushi2 Jul 16 06:47:37 ah the sleep Jul 16 06:47:38 heh Jul 16 06:47:38 not you oc Jul 16 06:47:40 :P Jul 16 06:47:41 ;) Jul 16 06:47:49 did i lie? Jul 16 06:47:58 I found a reference to vibrate in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.deviceinfo/app/models destinal Jul 16 06:48:08 hmm Jul 16 06:48:10 interesting Jul 16 06:48:18 but it doesn't contain much Jul 16 06:51:21 now does anyone know if you can run apps out of the media drive? Jul 16 06:51:51 installing homebrew and var style apps to the media drive? Jul 16 06:52:36 I suppose you could - I wonder if you created a symlink if that would work Jul 16 06:53:07 just a moment and I will try Jul 16 06:54:29 cool deal let me know what you find sushi Jul 16 06:54:40 might be a gread addition to the homebrew comunity Jul 16 06:55:29 sushi... my computer battery is about to die. i am at a coffee show.. im just going to head home Jul 16 06:55:33 please email your findings Jul 16 06:56:00 email them to akop87@gmail.com Jul 16 06:57:26 i thought that was posible. Jul 16 06:57:28 odd - cp wouldn't let me copy a sample app dir to the media dir Jul 16 06:57:35 only rysnc would Jul 16 06:57:45 sudo cp Jul 16 06:57:50 no? Jul 16 06:58:02 try it with sftp? Jul 16 06:58:04 logged in as root for this Jul 16 06:58:10 mm. Jul 16 06:58:23 fuck im not going to make it Jul 16 06:58:23 haha Jul 16 06:58:24 cp: omitting directory 'com.palm.pdice' Jul 16 06:58:42 well see if you can do it with sftp to the media directory Jul 16 06:58:55 -r Jul 16 06:58:59 throw that flag up Jul 16 06:59:05 cp -R here there Jul 16 06:59:21 hehe! Jul 16 06:59:22 doh Jul 16 06:59:24 lol Jul 16 06:59:30 haven't used cp in a while Jul 16 06:59:38 zall gooood Jul 16 06:59:57 ugh, getting vista 64x updates, webos updates, and backing up media/internal Jul 16 07:00:06 device been acting odd Jul 16 07:00:22 starting over *shrug* Jul 16 07:00:30 synnergy baby Jul 16 07:00:36 i fucking love this phone. Jul 16 07:01:03 still here jacko? Jul 16 07:01:05 it works Jul 16 07:01:13 ls Jul 16 07:01:16 lol Jul 16 07:01:18 wrong window Jul 16 07:01:53 I created a symlink from /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.pdice to /media/internal/apps/com.palm.pdice Jul 16 07:01:59 refreshed luna Jul 16 07:02:00 and it runs Jul 16 07:02:27 not bad not bad :D Jul 16 07:03:17 oh...wait...need to try one more thing Jul 16 07:03:59 phew Jul 16 07:04:09 thought it might have been indexing the renamed folder of the original Jul 16 07:05:48 add to wiki? Jul 16 07:08:01 oc80z: are you reflashing? Jul 16 07:13:04 yeah rwhitby Jul 16 07:13:15 ...wuts up? Jul 16 07:13:24 oc80z: can you test the new optware bootstrap script? Jul 16 07:13:32 absolutly. Jul 16 07:14:04 jrip updated it? Jul 16 07:14:12 (that was the last push?) Jul 16 07:14:28 yep Jul 16 07:14:41 ugh cant wait Jul 16 07:14:45 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/optware-bootstrap.sh Jul 16 07:14:59 wget that and sh it Jul 16 07:15:12 do all the slices of the flashram stay the same... can we not resize/symlink them Jul 16 07:17:01 cause yikes. Jul 16 07:20:39 ok - symlink info updated on the wiki Jul 16 07:21:24 rwhitby: what will the new bootstrap do (or hope to do)? Jul 16 07:21:27 sushi2: that'll work fine as long as apps don't have symlinks internally themselves Jul 16 07:21:57 sushi2: all the steps on the wiki for installing optware, dropbear, openssh, sudo, git, quilt, ... Jul 16 07:22:22 ahhh Jul 16 07:22:32 should I add the caveat for the symlink? Jul 16 07:22:54 I was under the impression it didn't really matter if the app had a symlink - it still would point to the right spot Jul 16 07:23:53 sushi Jul 16 07:23:57 chea Jul 16 07:24:05 aight lemmie ssh over Jul 16 07:24:06 jack87 Jul 16 07:24:14 hi im back.. at home now :) Jul 16 07:24:18 ah Jul 16 07:24:22 it works Jul 16 07:24:31 http://predev.wikidot.com/symlink-applications Jul 16 07:24:33 so what did you use to move the directory over Jul 16 07:24:56 whatever method works best for you Jul 16 07:25:03 rwhitby nice Jul 16 07:25:03 I ended up rsyncing it Jul 16 07:25:16 but cp -r would have worked as well Jul 16 07:25:25 so did you remove it from the var directory first? Jul 16 07:25:29 you will have to remove the existing app after the copy Jul 16 07:25:42 or rename it Jul 16 07:25:54 then symlink it and refresh luna Jul 16 07:25:56 sushi2: an app with an internal symlink will not be able to be stored in /media/internal, since that's a vfat filesystem Jul 16 07:26:11 rwhitby: ah Jul 16 07:26:23 as long as the app was able to be copied to /media/internal successfully, symlinking to it will not be a problem., Jul 16 07:26:33 did you write that wiki sushi? Jul 16 07:26:42 i just did jack, yes Jul 16 07:26:49 going to add rwhitby's comments Jul 16 07:26:53 very well done amazingly fast Jul 16 07:27:17 hum using sftp would let you pretty much copy any app wouldnt it rwhitby? Jul 16 07:27:40 this should solve the low disk space people been running into for their apps Jul 16 07:27:42 jack87: if you're copying to a vfat filesystem, no program can create a symlink on that filesystem Jul 16 07:27:57 but I doubt any webOS applications will have internal symlinks anyway Jul 16 07:28:01 i like that script rw Jul 16 07:28:11 optware apps, on the other hand, do require symlink support. Jul 16 07:28:15 rwhitby: I agree, but it's good to note Jul 16 07:28:18 oc80z: does it work well> Jul 16 07:28:20 ill do the flash now Jul 16 07:28:20 ? Jul 16 07:28:29 I am flashing, (i was just raeding it) Jul 16 07:28:44 * oc80z bite nails Jul 16 07:28:44 oh, cool. yeah JackieRipper has done a good job on that script. Jul 16 07:28:46 rwhitby: in other words, stick with the webos applications Jul 16 07:28:50 what exactly is a symlink Jul 16 07:29:13 jack87: don't make me send you packing to Google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_link Jul 16 07:29:17 ;) Jul 16 07:29:37 haha sorry sushi you are my hero Jul 16 07:29:37 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=symlink Jul 16 07:30:09 basicaly seems as if its a shortcut Jul 16 07:30:15 a magical shortcut Jul 16 07:30:19 alias google say http://lmgtfy.com/?q= $+ $1 Jul 16 07:30:20 :P Jul 16 07:30:49 god im getting hell for that haha Jul 16 07:30:51 thanks guys Jul 16 07:31:11 oc80z: awesome Jul 16 07:31:27 rwhitby so like 5m ill execute it. Jul 16 07:31:47 do it after right? Jul 16 07:31:49 oc80z: going to mention that on the next podcast Jul 16 07:31:51 haha Jul 16 07:31:53 oc80z: do a df before and after Jul 16 07:31:58 k Jul 16 07:32:05 oc80z: so we know how much flash space the whole process takes Jul 16 07:32:25 sushi2: where's your podcast at? Jul 16 07:32:50 it's not a Pre podcast but you can find me over at FreelanceSwitch.com Jul 16 07:33:03 now could i creat a symlink file with notepad or any other text editor and place it via sftp? Jul 16 07:33:08 We do a Freelance Recommends Jul 16 07:33:17 so I'm going to mention the link ;) Jul 16 07:33:35 jack, jack, jack Jul 16 07:34:01 haha am i driving you nuts?? i apologize. i am not quit strong on the programing end Jul 16 07:34:02 Time for you to dig into the real meat of the Pre. Get Putty and try it out from the command prompt Jul 16 07:34:21 jack87: Oh no, you aren't driving me nuts. Glad to see you are eager to learn. Jul 16 07:34:30 i been using command promt actualy today is when i been playing with sftp Jul 16 07:34:43 great - create your symlinks there Jul 16 07:34:58 you can learn to script them later ;) Jul 16 07:38:01 wow.. Jul 16 07:38:20 the flash failed to even connect, so i have to re-download the jar n etc.. Jul 16 07:38:26 but yeah the script worked flawlessly. Jul 16 07:39:04 not having any luck copying the file over to the media foler Jul 16 07:39:34 oc80z: how much space was used? Jul 16 07:40:19 Ughk Jul 16 07:40:32 it wasent accurate. Jul 16 07:40:42 since i already had all the appliations installed. Jul 16 07:40:43 :/ Jul 16 07:41:26 (ill obv do this after the flash) Jul 16 07:41:49 The script ran Great though, sorry for the delay boss, but im on ah DSL right now... Jul 16 07:42:02 had to mount the media dir rw Jul 16 07:42:15 did it via putty and coppied app over winscp Jul 16 07:42:48 vfat ughk Jul 16 07:43:05 still has ntfs properties. Jul 16 07:43:40 ok so after copying app over is when i delete the orginal directory or after symlink is created Jul 16 07:43:58 er Jul 16 07:44:08 why are you doing that eh Jul 16 07:44:25 rm? Jul 16 07:44:35 yeah Jul 16 07:44:38 the stock ones Jul 16 07:44:43 not the stock apps Jul 16 07:44:46 oh Jul 16 07:44:51 heh Jul 16 07:44:53 im working with homebrew apps Jul 16 07:45:01 what's the app? Jul 16 07:45:09 the one you did pdice Jul 16 07:45:22 haha useless app to me so i dont mind using it as test Jul 16 07:45:34 can you make child directory with files in it Jul 16 07:45:42 then just throw all your ipkgs in there Jul 16 07:45:55 you installed the app first, right? Jul 16 07:45:58 but im not doing it with ipkgs Jul 16 07:46:01 yes Jul 16 07:46:02 er u know Jul 16 07:46:07 ok Jul 16 07:46:07 .com.hakkr Jul 16 07:46:12 (0.6 Kb .JNLP file which downloads a 200Mb .JAR file) Jul 16 07:46:13 ugk Jul 16 07:46:23 and where did it place the file? /usr/palm/applications/ ? Jul 16 07:46:23 why is this 200mb jar not cached Jul 16 07:46:42 (cause its sec) right Jul 16 07:46:43 var/usr/palm/applications/ Jul 16 07:46:54 3min rwhitby, going to retry Jul 16 07:47:00 okay Jul 16 07:47:04 oc80z: sweet Jul 16 07:47:14 so from the command prompt (using putty or somesuch) Jul 16 07:47:17 as root Jul 16 07:47:22 (or sudo) Jul 16 07:47:32 yeah guess ill disable linux rdis driver Jul 16 07:47:36 also coppied it to media/ Jul 16 07:47:42 rndis* Jul 16 07:47:58 so you copied it to media already? Jul 16 07:48:04 indeed Jul 16 07:48:19 i remounted media file system rewriteable with putty Jul 16 07:48:21 even reauthenticated with my exhange servers, stil cant contact search Jul 16 07:48:23 did you want to link it there? or under /media/internal/ Jul 16 07:48:27 allowed me to use sftp to copy there Jul 16 07:48:27 ...primary raeson for flashing Jul 16 07:48:45 jack87: so I'm confused - thought you said that you weren't able to copy it Jul 16 07:48:55 would internalbe a metter choise Jul 16 07:49:09 i wasnt at first till i made the file system rw Jul 16 07:49:12 jack87: depends entirely on how clean you want your filesystem Jul 16 07:49:32 I created an apps directory under /media/internal/ Jul 16 07:49:52 what if i made a directory... media/apps put all my homebrew there would that clean Jul 16 07:49:55 ok..will od then Jul 16 07:50:22 jack87: that would also work, but remember that when connecting via USB, it mounts /media/internal/ Jul 16 07:50:26 done Jul 16 07:50:36 so my pdice is in media/internals/apps Jul 16 07:50:43 ok - now need to delete the original dir or rename it Jul 16 07:51:56 gonee Jul 16 07:52:21 now create the symlink in the same directory Jul 16 07:52:51 ln -s /media/internal/apps/com.robobeau.pdice /var/usr/palm/applications/com.robobeau.pdice Jul 16 07:52:56 should do the trick? Jul 16 07:53:05 yep Jul 16 07:53:34 then do: ls -al Jul 16 07:53:37 rwhitby the stuff i added in predev.wikidot.com/profile-d should include some shortcuts too Jul 16 07:53:40 and you can see the symlink there Jul 16 07:53:48 may be we should have /etc/skel cloned no? Jul 16 07:54:21 what does ls -al do Jul 16 07:54:54 this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ls+-al Jul 16 07:55:00 ;) Jul 16 07:55:09 i saw the list of stuff but i am in my media directory in putty Jul 16 07:55:12 do an ls and then a ls -al and compare Jul 16 07:55:25 i know ls :) Jul 16 07:55:35 got it bad ass Jul 16 07:55:38 i like ls -al Jul 16 07:56:03 go into /var/usr/palm/applications and do the ls -al Jul 16 07:56:04 wtf.... Jul 16 07:56:07 Download Stalled Jul 16 07:56:07 haha but i can see it in winscp Jul 16 07:56:12 lookslike ashort cut Jul 16 07:56:17 yep Jul 16 07:56:21 has the little arrow :) Jul 16 07:56:25 now refresh luna Jul 16 07:56:39 i cant remember the luna refresh command Jul 16 07:57:04 It's /usr/bin/luna-send palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Jul 16 07:57:15 ya know what i didnt even need to refresh Jul 16 07:57:25 its working and its on the launcher Jul 16 07:57:34 very nice Jul 16 07:57:42 that's true because it was already there, but no harm in refresh Jul 16 07:57:45 i never ran into the low disk space issue as some others have talked about Jul 16 07:58:10 but i was hoping for a solution thanks for helping find one Jul 16 07:58:21 np Jul 16 07:58:24 haha also gave me a chance to play with this sftp Jul 16 07:58:30 I'm off - gnight all Jul 16 07:58:37 gnight Jul 16 08:00:04 sushi Jul 16 08:00:09 you didntleave yet did you Jul 16 08:00:40 with winscp... you right click you can creat a new link and simply enter the directory. super easy Jul 16 08:01:25 yes - but that's for girls ;) Jul 16 08:01:55 be a man! use shell commands typed in via morse code on a green screen terminal over a 14.4k modem! Jul 16 08:02:09 haha sent that to your email... Jul 16 08:02:26 hehe i like easy. not for my sake but for when i explain to others Jul 16 08:02:43 im loving learning the shell comands and appreciate you helping me so very much Jul 16 08:02:53 ok dude get somesleep.. goodnight Jul 16 08:02:56 certainly Jul 16 08:03:22 friggin cnnection Jul 16 08:07:10 whats of oc Jul 16 08:07:30 sorry ihavent been fallowing withwhat you are up to... having trouble using the web os doctor? Jul 16 08:32:45 has anybody tried adapting http://antony.lesuisse.org/software/ajaxterm/ to the pre? Jul 16 08:33:08 it's python but you can run vim and and other fullscreen terminal programs in it Jul 16 08:33:43 I got it run on a pre but the web browser on the pre won't take the keyboard input too it, it keeps try to search Jul 16 09:10:18 back Jul 16 09:10:35 Tilly: that's one approach Jul 16 09:10:51 It works ok outside the pre Jul 16 09:10:51 XD Jul 16 09:11:00 we are working on a native terminal though Jul 16 09:11:07 yes it would be nice Jul 16 09:11:22 you could make an app for it, that will ensure the evtns get to it Jul 16 09:11:38 modify it wit Palm js events Jul 16 09:11:55 I am trying Jul 16 09:11:57 >.> Jul 16 09:12:02 it's kind of a bitch Jul 16 09:12:02 XD Jul 16 09:13:18 #webos might be able to help Jul 16 09:15:09 phone got d/c during start of flash rwhitby, gave me a 2nd chance.. Jul 16 09:19:53 reboot or somthing ill let you know Jul 16 09:29:59 by flash do you mean reapplying webos doc? Jul 16 09:36:43 ok Jul 16 09:36:53 the only problem with ajaxterm is keeping focus Jul 16 09:37:08 if you tap the screen before you tupe each letter Jul 16 09:37:11 it works fine Jul 16 09:37:13 >.> Jul 16 09:37:51 so maybe a version of the ajax html page can be rolled up into an app without the search Jul 16 09:37:51 XD Jul 16 09:39:03 < Tilly> if you tap the screen before you tupe each letter Jul 16 09:39:03 < Tilly> it works fine Jul 16 09:39:03 < Tilly> >.> Jul 16 09:39:03 < Tilly> so maybe a version of the ajax html page can be rolled up into an app without the search Jul 16 09:39:03 < Tilly> XD Jul 16 09:39:19 raeb any ideas? Jul 16 09:39:41 oc80z: only 7pm here, I got all night ;-) Jul 16 09:39:55 Night rwhitby ? Jul 16 09:39:56 O.o Jul 16 09:40:10 GMT+9:30, .au Jul 16 09:40:13 XD Jul 16 09:41:11 :D cool Jul 16 09:41:29 Yeah Jul 16 09:41:43 my pals in deutchland are up soon, time to get on skype/gtalk heh Jul 16 09:41:46 its flashing now, btw.. Jul 16 09:41:49 http://nexus404.com/Blog/2009/01/21/bluetooth-folding-keyboard-for-handhelds-msi-bk100-bluetooth-keyboard/ Jul 16 09:42:50 THATS nice. Jul 16 09:43:09 im sure with these custom kernels coming out, Jul 16 09:43:28 we could possibly just go command warrior Jul 16 09:43:43 and save an insane ammount of batter Jul 16 09:43:57 and get out IRC on heh Jul 16 09:44:38 Your phone is now restarting. Follow the instructions on your phone to set your language and sign in to your Palm profile. Jul 16 10:16:41 oc80z: what do you mean? Jul 16 10:21:42 aye Jul 16 10:21:44 done Jul 16 10:22:05 tmzt, duel boot Jul 16 10:22:35 oc80z: ah Jul 16 10:22:37 how? Jul 16 10:22:46 please no wiki tonight :) Jul 16 10:23:08 dunno, leave out any modules you dont need. Jul 16 10:23:20 from that custom kernel, Jul 16 10:23:37 Grrrrrrrrrrrr Jul 16 10:23:48 why cant i search a contact through exchange! Jul 16 10:24:12 how is that dual boot? Jul 16 10:25:21 its got to do with the video Jul 16 10:26:18 you will see Jul 16 10:26:23 heh Jul 16 10:26:29 i just talked to a apple guy Jul 16 10:27:36 the worlds largest apple store is like across teh street from me, lookn down on it u can see a garden on the roof Jul 16 10:27:38 heh Jul 16 10:27:45 waste of space. Jul 16 10:27:56 oc80z: so how much space used after the script? Jul 16 10:28:06 aight lets do this Jul 16 10:33:53 hang loose, work is kickin up Jul 16 10:36:05 video? Jul 16 10:36:27 upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Jul 16 10:36:36 they killed kenny, you bastart Jul 16 10:37:27 phones booting Jul 16 10:37:43 nova'd in Jul 16 10:37:49 (waitin on boot) Jul 16 10:39:34 what does dual boot have to do with a video Jul 16 10:43:14 a stripped down kernel? Jul 16 10:43:47 prolly good as is Jul 16 10:44:10 but im just saying, its better to choose on boot if u want gui or command line Jul 16 10:45:00 Creating an unprivileged user account to be used when logging in... Jul 16 10:46:49 Installing openssh: Jul 16 10:47:13 yo... this is outstanding. Jul 16 10:47:34 tmzt u know what i mean? Jul 16 10:48:01 no Jul 16 10:48:25 dual boot means more than one kernel, we don't know how to do that yet Jul 16 10:48:42 if you just want to disable luna you can do that Jul 16 10:48:48 but no phone yet Jul 16 10:49:22 oc80z: did it work? Jul 16 10:51:39 nawp Jul 16 10:51:44 need to ah, push a mkdir , possibly. Jul 16 10:52:01 you don't have to change the kernel for command line options Jul 16 10:52:16 they get passed to init (upstart) Jul 16 10:52:19 tmzt i know Jul 16 10:52:26 optware-bootstrap.sh: cd: line 616: can't cd to /opt/src Jul 16 10:54:25 Creating a local clone of the webos-internals modifications repository: OK Jul 16 10:54:25 Setup complete Jul 16 10:54:31 ok so yea just need to mkdir there Jul 16 10:57:19 tmzt yea ah Jul 16 10:57:26 tmzt smartflext runs a diff kerneL?? Jul 16 10:59:10 rwhitby http://webos.pastebin.com/m36be4d8e Jul 16 10:59:48 dunno someone said that battery saver smartflex needed that custom kernel, saved more battery, and w/ just cli ur good. Jul 16 10:59:56 so 63.3MB Jul 16 11:00:23 oc80z: do you have commit privs at gitorious? Jul 16 11:01:59 mmno Jul 16 11:02:11 do i need a keypair Jul 16 11:03:13 you need to set up as per the applying-patches page Jul 16 11:03:26 or just let JackieRipper know when he returns ... Jul 16 11:04:18 oc80z: yes, but I'm saying it's only dual boot if you choos kernel at boot Jul 16 11:04:28 yea Jul 16 11:04:29 this replaces it in /boot Jul 16 11:05:12 aright Jul 16 11:05:35 still, replacement kernel is interesting Jul 16 11:05:46 wish the instructions made more sense Jul 16 11:05:55 the proof of concept is on the wiki Jul 16 11:06:00 marex says the patched kernel won't build Jul 16 11:06:36 usong beagle defconfig makes no sense Jul 16 11:06:41 it's a sirloin Jul 16 11:07:11 mm Jul 16 11:07:19 yea so ill hit up jrip later on Jul 16 11:07:35 may be there is more kernel dev on c4pda.com Jul 16 11:08:09 anybody working on gpu stuff yet? Jul 16 11:08:17 or openpandora port Jul 16 11:09:50 i was looking at that tonight Jul 16 11:15:07 cool Jul 16 11:15:16 need to go Jul 16 11:16:37 aright man Jul 16 11:25:44 im outtt Jul 16 11:57:15 rwhitby http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e306/Whats_Life53/webshell2.gif Jul 16 12:06:58 http://predev.wikidot.com/pre-terminal-options Jul 16 14:27:02 woohoo Jul 16 14:27:09 palm SDK officially publicly available Jul 16 14:27:20 yea except you can't register for an webos dev account Jul 16 14:27:45 I just did it and the confirmation email I got was malformed. There isn't a confirmation URL, just a hash that I assume was supposed to be the URL. Jul 16 14:28:12 s/hash/replacement string Jul 16 14:29:11 not a URL -> #INTERPRET:EVENTVAR:TOKENTEXT# Jul 16 14:54:21 finally damn SDK is out Jul 16 14:54:23 thanks palm Jul 16 14:54:42 sdk is out? Jul 16 14:54:51 yep Jul 16 14:54:57 cool Jul 16 14:55:00 http://developer.palm.com/index.php Jul 16 14:55:06 sdk is out? Jul 16 14:55:07 sweet Jul 16 14:55:44 they really hit their target early Jul 16 14:56:22 I assume they felt like they needed to get something out the door, since it'd been leaked Jul 16 14:56:36 I don't know that for sure though Jul 16 14:56:42 i actually got accepted to the early access a few weeks back Jul 16 14:56:51 right about when it was leaked :P Jul 16 14:57:29 I don't know if you're supposed to tell us that :) Jul 16 14:58:04 and they have it for win/linux/osx, nice Jul 16 14:58:10 yep Jul 16 14:58:17 the NDA is actually pretty flexible Jul 16 14:58:31 fair enough Jul 16 14:58:43 I wish there was more in it about lower level stuff Jul 16 14:58:55 I understand it's an SDK, and not intended for systems stuff Jul 16 14:59:07 but I want an official way to insert kernel modules Jul 16 14:59:11 i'm sure people will bitch Jul 16 14:59:16 and eventually it'll be added Jul 16 14:59:21 oh noes it's iPhone all over again Jul 16 15:00:04 gtslk: dont talk about that device here Jul 16 15:00:05 !!! Jul 16 15:00:06 Also, if it comes down to it, I suppose I can just deal with "unofficial" applications, but yeah Jul 16 15:00:09 j.k Jul 16 15:00:09 lol Jul 16 15:01:52 Awww i already see it now im not going to get nothing done at work today Jul 16 15:01:59 gonna be on the sdk site all day Jul 16 15:02:06 oooh, file:// looks interesting Jul 16 15:02:16 which means a file browser should be at least do-able Jul 16 15:02:32 thanks Jul 16 15:02:34 * PuffTheMagic downloading Jul 16 15:02:39 api docs nice Jul 16 15:10:09 has anyone tried downloading the novacom image Jul 16 15:10:11 http://developer.palm.com/sdk-beta/release20090701/palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb Jul 16 15:10:15 i cant seem to get it Jul 16 15:10:32 i actually want to see the contacts browser work sort of like SenseUI's contact browser for Android. Jul 16 15:10:59 that would be a nice mod. i should add to wiki. Jul 16 15:11:09 so question, with the release of the web os development tools to the public, does this mean the app store is open to the general developers now too? Jul 16 15:11:21 or still just the select few? Jul 16 15:11:43 according to the blog post, it will be opened up in the fall Jul 16 15:11:51 thanks Jul 16 15:12:05 something tells me that the community will develop some app store clone while we wait Jul 16 15:12:10 http://blog.palm.com/palm/2009/07/mojo-sdk-available-to-all-.html Jul 16 15:12:36 alas, the developer still has to agree to not distribute except in palm catalog Jul 16 15:14:34 are any of u using the sdk w/ virtualbox 3? or is everyone still on 2? Jul 16 15:14:54 PuffTheMagic: vbox 3 works fine Jul 16 15:15:03 must just be -ose then Jul 16 15:15:08 i will try the bin version Jul 16 15:15:31 yes never tried ose Jul 16 15:19:04 fall!?! Jul 16 15:19:34 bpadalino|work: they're shooting themselves in the foot Jul 16 15:20:10 Fall will come fast Jul 16 15:20:35 there should have been an open app catalog week 1 of release Jul 16 15:21:41 even the first day of fall is two months away. then again, they beat their SDK estimates so maybe they'll beat this estimate as well Jul 16 15:21:51 destinal: agreed Jul 16 15:22:05 on needing the app catalog week 1 Jul 16 15:22:23 30 apps in this day and age of smart phones is just pitiful Jul 16 15:22:39 within a month I bet our homebrew catalog is the place everyone will go Jul 16 15:22:55 yes but Pre is more open than any other smart phone to my knowledge Jul 16 15:23:00 which i am happy for Jul 16 15:23:07 i put linux on everything i can Jul 16 15:23:10 and this already has it on it Jul 16 15:23:15 PuffTheMagic: agreed, it's not locked down Jul 16 15:23:16 i am like a pig in shit Jul 16 15:23:20 what is pitiful is they there aren't more being added on a frequent basis Jul 16 15:23:45 PuffTheMagic: Palm's code isn't open though nor is their hardware docs, but I think it's way more open than the other major smartphones except android and openmoko Jul 16 15:23:46 i bet the add a bunch in bulk Jul 16 15:23:48 djk: that is where a working app store is needed Jul 16 15:23:56 and I guess openmoko's not exactly major at this point Jul 16 15:24:26 openmoko kinda lost steam a while ago Jul 16 15:24:30 idk, i see palm going the way of ati/amd with docs and what not Jul 16 15:24:32 so not locked down is a lot closer to open Jul 16 15:24:51 PuffTheMagic: if they wanted to OSS everything they could have Jul 16 15:24:55 they can still have some closed source stuff as long as they help us Jul 16 15:25:16 but OSS everything would be better ;) Jul 16 15:25:23 PuffTheMagic: the thing is I don't see how it helps them to keep it closed Jul 16 15:25:29 it would help more to have it open Jul 16 15:25:53 destinal: it gets the cell companies to consider them Jul 16 15:26:02 destinal: you dont have to argue with me about that, I am all about OSS.... but for a big companies like Palm.... this is a huge step for them Jul 16 15:26:07 summatusmentis: android's getting considered Jul 16 15:26:12 summatusmentis: android is totally open Jul 16 15:27:14 they would only benefit by having open code by having a larger webos platform Jul 16 15:27:19 and more support Jul 16 15:27:36 can't see the downside Jul 16 15:27:52 destinal: that's a fair point, I suppose. Google is in a much stronger position to bargain with cell companies than Palm is Jul 16 15:28:11 summatusmentis: baseband is seperate from phone so an open phone doesn't hurt anything Jul 16 15:28:34 no idea why a phone company would be averse Jul 16 15:29:09 ever worked with VZW? Jul 16 15:29:15 they're all about control Jul 16 15:29:29 summatusmentis: then they wouldn't like the pre anyway Jul 16 15:30:07 summatusmentis: yea they are all about control they wanna control the phones OS, bluetooth functiosn Jul 16 15:30:09 and everything else Jul 16 15:30:23 pretty much Jul 16 15:30:39 my sense has been that AT&T is similar, beyond the extent that gsm is more open Jul 16 15:30:47 now, I don't have any first hand experience with AT&T Jul 16 15:30:56 distributed Applications may be viewable or inspectable by third parties, and Palm is not obligated to take any steps to obfuscate the code associated with the Applications or take any other steps to prevent third parties from viewing or inspecting Application code. Jul 16 15:31:00 hmmmm Jul 16 15:31:06 well than the cool phones will go to the likes of sprint and tmobile Jul 16 15:31:14 might as well make your code open source Jul 16 15:31:34 totes6: there's an important difference. Jul 16 15:31:51 totes6: if you download an app from the catalog redistributing it is still copyright infringement Jul 16 15:32:08 totes6: unless the vendor gives you a license to do it Jul 16 15:32:35 ya but proving that and having to go to court is way too much of a hassel Jul 16 15:32:46 no matter whether it's compiled java (which you can decompile and read anyway) or readable code Jul 16 15:33:04 readability doesn't equal "may as well" anything IMO Jul 16 15:33:24 I could see that if the app was not provided through the app catalog, but it iritates me a little that now Palm is backing out of the option to side load apps Jul 16 15:33:54 totes6: side load will still be possible via dev mode Jul 16 15:34:02 yes it is Jul 16 15:34:15 but for the non technical savvy which Jul 16 15:34:19 I have a few of at work Jul 16 15:34:24 it is a pain Jul 16 15:34:26 totes6: also bootie should work Jul 16 15:34:33 power off, hold down up, plug in USB is easy Jul 16 15:35:12 not as easy as just download install but as easy or easier than iphone Jul 16 15:35:41 not familar with that install method. Is there a guide for that? Jul 16 15:35:48 thats basically same procedure for the iPod 5th gen Jul 16 15:35:48 totes6: there aren't any tools yet Jul 16 15:35:49 :D Jul 16 15:36:08 totes6: that use bootie to bootstrap dev mode Jul 16 15:36:12 but it should be possible Jul 16 15:36:25 ahh ok Jul 16 15:36:53 do you think that would be much better than konami code? Jul 16 15:37:05 possibly Jul 16 15:39:10 I'm just thinking of when I have 100+ people I have to help install any of the apps we would use for business, and several have issues with basic office use Jul 16 15:40:07 being able to tell them go out to a server which I control and download an install package would be alot easier than trying to get them through the dev mode and using SDK to install the apps Jul 16 15:40:16 thats all Jul 16 15:40:18 WTF? Palm released the SDK today? Jul 16 15:40:22 yes Jul 16 15:40:37 http://blog.palm.com/palm/2009/07/mojo-sdk-available-to-all-.html Jul 16 15:41:44 totes6: company owned or personal? Jul 16 15:41:48 the phones for business Jul 16 15:41:54 company owned Jul 16 15:42:22 so once we get an installer you can just add your corporate feed to it when the phone's first installed Jul 16 15:42:39 you can add the installer and your corporate feed to a doctor image and just doctor all inbound phones Jul 16 15:42:47 yeah not as easy as it could be Jul 16 15:42:50 but workable Jul 16 15:43:03 so on this page: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1585 Jul 16 15:43:07 it says step 3 Jul 16 15:43:10 download novacom Jul 16 15:43:17 does that link work for anyone? Jul 16 15:43:26 dead link Jul 16 15:45:02 is that really required? any alt links? Jul 16 15:46:20 yeah, the eclipse plugin update location mentioned here http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1639 is dead as well. Jul 16 15:46:40 destinal: ya I'm still trying to convince the company to go with the Pre, but its things like this that are blocking the way. "Why should we go with a product we can't write apps for business use?" that was fixed today, next question "How do we easily install those apps?" it just seems that everytime Palm makes a step forward they still don't have the complete product lined up, and I am... Jul 16 15:46:41 ...running out of time. Company wants a smart phone that can have customized apps written for it and now they are seriously considering "Other" options Jul 16 15:47:18 the phone came out a month ago... Jul 16 15:48:04 mikeDOTd: I understand that, but unfortunately my company is not a patient company and the world we are in is not a patient world Jul 16 15:48:07 totes6: so you need an installer. we'll get there soon I hope Jul 16 15:48:16 destinal: agreed Jul 16 15:48:35 but yeah we should come up with a guide or a tool for making a corporate doctor image too Jul 16 15:48:41 try to get some adoption Jul 16 15:49:40 I am thankful that Palm came out with that recent update to the exchange to include security measures, that has really helped push the phone further to the front Jul 16 15:49:56 so its getting there Jul 16 15:50:08 ok guys so I think an ipkg feed of signed apps, autopackaged and signed with a tool like the autobuilder tool optware already has, and a mojo app and service is the way to go. Jul 16 15:50:19 the service should allow for list, search, add, remove etc Jul 16 15:50:54 and the ability to allow signed or unsigned app repos to be hosted by anyone should be easy Jul 16 15:51:40 then a corporate image can include our feed and the corporate feed, or just ours Jul 16 15:51:42 err theirs Jul 16 15:52:02 in case the company doesn't want to allow third party apps easily Jul 16 15:52:13 or just certain ones Jul 16 15:53:34 destinal: that would be great Jul 16 15:54:03 totes6: I'd jump into building it but I'm working on graphical and scriptable plugins Jul 16 15:54:11 Yea like a cynia or whatever that wackphone app thing is called Jul 16 15:54:18 atlanta: cydia you mean? Jul 16 15:54:21 yea Jul 16 15:54:21 lol Jul 16 15:54:39 but only thing is we would have to make ipkg install the damn app in the right place Jul 16 15:54:48 INSTALL_DIR haven't got it to work yet Jul 16 15:54:57 atlanta: why? Jul 16 15:55:13 atlanta: we can bootstrap over usb Jul 16 15:55:40 or for corps they can bootstrap by flashing their own custom doctor image (a tool to edit that is another thing we need) Jul 16 15:56:25 someone just needs to make the app and service at this point Jul 16 15:56:45 true Jul 16 15:56:49 by service, you know a standard dbus service Jul 16 15:56:52 i can help on the app and provide the servers for it Jul 16 15:57:07 but not a hardcore coder so yea Jul 16 15:57:13 atlanta: talk with rwhitby I think we have the infrastructure we can use Jul 16 15:57:48 oh yea i remember him telling me we (community) were getting some servers and stuff Jul 16 15:57:49 muahahahaha Jul 16 15:57:59 love the sdk full release Jul 16 15:57:59 w00t Jul 16 15:58:05 you basically need a java service wrapping the ipkg functions or a version of ipkg-opt compiled with dbus support Jul 16 15:58:09 destinal: hopefully we can get some coders on it Jul 16 15:58:17 gotcha Jul 16 15:58:34 isnt there native jars on the phone we can use or you have to still be in dev mode Jul 16 15:58:35 ? Jul 16 15:59:05 dev mode or bootie is still the only way to load up our stuff Jul 16 15:59:13 but don't worry about that Jul 16 15:59:20 if the app exists we'll get it loaded Jul 16 15:59:33 gothca Jul 16 15:59:34 gotcha Jul 16 16:01:26 havent tried bootie yet basically the same thing righ Jul 16 16:02:48 atlanta: the doctor uses bootie to reflash, we can modify doctor images and use it, or maybe just use bootie to write individual files but we haven't gotten to the latter yet Jul 16 16:03:05 ie if you gold down up it's a recovery mode Jul 16 16:03:09 hold down Jul 16 16:03:28 oh ok gotcha Jul 16 16:03:44 anybody else getting a dns error on palm's subversion Jul 16 16:03:45 ? Jul 16 16:04:17 atlanta: yeah I suspect it's internal only Jul 16 16:05:03 Lol k im tired of seeing the link on every other page then Jul 16 16:05:04 lol Jul 16 16:06:29 Any if anyone here got some good help and good knowledge of some api features get your butt over to the developer forum at palm and start posting Jul 16 16:07:46 atlanta: lower level access -- just a thought? :) good question but I'd be surprised if they're forthcoming Jul 16 16:10:10 destinal: i 100% have vbox installed but when I start palm-emulator it says that it is not.... Jul 16 16:10:19 I'm annoyed that they kept the developer agrees not to distribute outside of catalog. that's a deal breaker IMO Jul 16 16:10:19 do you know where it is looking for vbox? Jul 16 16:10:40 PuffTheMagic: do you have java 1.6? Jul 16 16:10:50 official sun java Jul 16 16:10:52 not oss vers Jul 16 16:11:04 i have it installed but 1.5 is default atm Jul 16 16:11:06 let me switch it Jul 16 16:11:25 same error Jul 16 16:11:40 it started when i had -ose installed Jul 16 16:11:49 but not with -bin Jul 16 16:12:02 probably cause -bin is installed in /opt Jul 16 16:12:02 uninstall and then do it Jul 16 16:12:05 and not inpath Jul 16 16:12:05 atlanta: want to post in the forums a request for clarification on why they require developers to not distribute outside the catalog? I would but I can't sign up without agreeing to it Jul 16 16:12:07 i had to uninstall eveyrthing Jul 16 16:12:20 Yes i will." Jul 16 16:12:32 they say we retain all rights Jul 16 16:12:39 and then go ahead and make us agree to give up some of them Jul 16 16:13:12 wtf Jul 16 16:14:10 yea makes no sense Jul 16 16:14:21 but NDA and EULA i say fuck em excuse my french Jul 16 16:14:40 I would agree except that the battle.net court case upheld an EULA Jul 16 16:14:51 vs bnetd Jul 16 16:14:53 Yup Yup Jul 16 16:15:02 time to start releasing with Code names and stuff Jul 16 16:15:24 why do I have to agree to anything to get the sdk? Jul 16 16:15:27 foriegn vpns Jul 16 16:15:34 to get on the store I understand Jul 16 16:15:37 exactly Jul 16 16:15:37 but if I don't want to Jul 16 16:15:55 It will be up on some file sharing site soon Jul 16 16:16:08 but let me find which forum i want to post in Jul 16 16:17:41 worse yet: USING OR ACCESSING ANY PART OF THE SDK, DEVELOPER WEBSITE OR PALM MATERIALS INDICATES THAT YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS Jul 16 16:18:04 but many parts of the dev website don't require you to agree to anything Jul 16 16:18:54 yup yup Jul 16 16:20:09 heh -- use the APIs in a manner that exceeds reasonable request volume? Jul 16 16:20:22 that's restricted as well Jul 16 16:21:20 Don't you love how they fail to define what "resonable" is :D Jul 16 16:21:55 Well i think they mean far as battery life goes Jul 16 16:22:02 because i was reading where they have recommendations Jul 16 16:22:18 no this is specifically for abusive use of the apis Jul 16 16:24:01 anything else you wanted me to put in the post Jul 16 16:24:02 ? Jul 16 16:24:58 atlanta: I'll leave it up to your discretion Jul 16 16:25:08 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=52 Jul 16 16:25:38 cool, we'll see how and if they respond Jul 16 16:26:04 atlanta: nice post Jul 16 16:26:18 can't wait to see what Palm replies or if they just ignore it Jul 16 16:26:51 Yea Jul 16 16:26:54 or remove it Jul 16 16:26:54 lol Jul 16 16:27:00 or that too :D Jul 16 16:27:07 well that it existed is logged here, we'll see Jul 16 16:27:37 so... is there anything that you can do with the SDK that you simply cannot do without it? Jul 16 16:28:46 i.e., if you publish a side-load app on a website, and they tell you you are in violation of the EULA, would it be reasonable to argue that you didn't use the SDK and thus are not bound to it? Jul 16 16:29:43 well technically you need the palm-generate to create the package which im sure you can do without it Jul 16 16:30:15 is there an official palm pre irc channel Jul 16 16:30:16 correct me if Im wrong but the current way to sideload apps to is to get into dev mode and use the SDK to upload the app over USB Jul 16 16:30:20 but then like destinal said using any app from palm you are pretty much saying you agree to the damn thing Jul 16 16:30:23 I thought packages were already figured out from the homebrew scene? Jul 16 16:30:39 twobitsprite: they are but using the palm provided apps Jul 16 16:30:49 totes6: yea there is Jul 16 16:30:57 dev mode and just copying folder works Jul 16 16:31:01 ahh ok Jul 16 16:31:03 so that might be a way past it Jul 16 16:31:18 atlanta: I don't think they'll be able to claim that just visiting a web site is agreement Jul 16 16:31:22 atlanta: whatever they say Jul 16 16:31:39 yea i dont think that would stand up Jul 16 16:31:49 because you have to visit the website before even agreeing to something Jul 16 16:31:56 yup Jul 16 16:32:02 so thats a catch 22 on their part Jul 16 16:32:11 but technically the way the scene has been going now Jul 16 16:32:19 the only way they could make it stick probably is the first page you see is the EULA Jul 16 16:32:26 i don't think palm will do anything to mess up their relationship wit devs Jul 16 16:32:45 oh lalala accelrometer stuff Jul 16 16:34:34 the accelerometer stuff is nice :) Jul 16 16:37:22 How about the direct links to the sdk: https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1/sdkBinaries/Palm_Mojo_SDK-Win-1.1.0-sdk62-build08.exe Jul 16 16:38:54 Lurking_Grue: LMFAO that works too Jul 16 16:39:02 but you probably just broke EULA lol Jul 16 16:39:03 https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1/sdkBinaries/Palm_Mojo_SDK-Mac-1.1.0-sdk62-build08.pkg Jul 16 16:39:17 D:\Users\bob.caron\Desktop\palm_mojo_sdk-Ubuntu-1.1.0-sdk62-hud25_i386.deb Jul 16 16:39:38 If I don't develop does it matter if I broke it? Jul 16 16:39:44 exactly Jul 16 16:39:55 technically i dont care Jul 16 16:39:58 and i dont think palm cares Jul 16 16:40:16 but again technically speaking it does matter because you accepted it Jul 16 16:40:21 It may just be cover their ass language. Jul 16 16:40:43 I wasn't reading the page I just clicked on things. Jul 16 16:45:19 wakey wakey, eggs and bakey! Jul 16 16:45:28 Jripz Jul 16 16:49:37 FYI this channel is logged. Jul 16 16:53:02 FYI regarding that broken novacom link Jul 16 16:53:04 here is the proper one Jul 16 16:53:05 https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1/sdkBinaries/palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb Jul 16 16:53:33 thanks Jul 16 16:53:39 i still cant get vbox working Jul 16 16:53:42 i installed the bin Jul 16 16:53:48 and now the emulator cant find it Jul 16 16:53:58 it can find the ose version but it fails Jul 16 16:56:46 I'd try remove the OSE Jul 16 16:56:54 its gone Jul 16 16:57:26 no idea, any specific error? Jul 16 16:59:39 im going back to ose with newer modules Jul 16 16:59:41 see what happens Jul 16 17:01:15 There aren't amd64 linux sdk builds, are there? Jul 16 17:02:04 am I the only one who got sdk registration emails with #INTERPRET:EVENTVAR:TOKENTEXT# crap in them instead of links? Jul 16 17:06:06 PuffTheMagic: 3.x bin works great Jul 16 17:06:25 bdumm: you're not the only one Jul 16 17:06:38 bdumm: I've heard others complain of the same Jul 16 17:08:12 destinal, k thx :) Jul 16 17:08:34 is this part of their custom sdk creation thingy? Jul 16 17:09:21 no idea Jul 16 17:11:19 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193057-read-before-accepting-palm-sdk-tos.html Jul 16 17:12:11 PreGame's advocating using a leaked SDK? Jul 16 17:13:00 destinal: what distro? Jul 16 17:13:48 PuffTheMagic: ubuntu 8.x and 9.x Jul 16 17:14:01 gentoo must install it differently Jul 16 17:14:02 :/ Jul 16 17:14:13 PuffTheMagic: yeah they only support ubuntu at this point Jul 16 17:14:17 Gentoo users a used to installation pain ;) Jul 16 17:14:36 destinal: edited :) Jul 16 17:15:11 PreGame: rather than leaked, you could just download from a direct link :) Jul 16 17:15:28 they may make the case that you agreed just by being on their site though Jul 16 17:16:46 ok back Jul 16 17:17:34 atlanta Jul 16 17:17:42 you may want to read http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193057-read-before-accepting-palm-sdk-tos.html Jul 16 17:17:43 PreGame: wsup Jul 16 17:18:25 oh i know Jul 16 17:18:31 me and destinal just had a long talk about Jul 16 17:18:31 it Jul 16 17:18:54 destinal: the ubuntu support dont scare me... the emulaor found virtualbox when i had ose installed... it just couldnt run the image Jul 16 17:18:58 and i think that was a driver issue Jul 16 17:19:03 but now i got newer drivers Jul 16 17:19:10 so i think i can fix this Jul 16 17:19:26 PuffTheMagic: well you'll want novacom also Jul 16 17:19:33 i saw the link Jul 16 17:19:37 got it and installed thanks Jul 16 17:19:47 cool then you should be good Jul 16 17:20:05 and PreGame: ill just make homebrew with the leaked sdk and catalog apps with the official Jul 16 17:20:20 have it on my other computer just to show Jul 16 17:20:50 destinal: yeah i just reinstalled -ose and it finds it no prob Jul 16 17:21:00 ...weird it dont find -bin properly Jul 16 17:21:24 but it looks like i need pulse audio too Jul 16 17:21:25 :/ Jul 16 17:21:26 lame Jul 16 17:23:00 i think i found a way to make an on Pre application installer Jul 16 17:23:12 that way you don't have to have a computer with sdk when you want to install an app Jul 16 17:23:13 how Jul 16 17:23:14 ? Jul 16 17:23:23 its a secret Jul 16 17:23:26 lol Jul 16 17:23:28 i don't want anyone to steal my idea Jul 16 17:23:30 quick outline Jul 16 17:23:33 i love secrets tell me Jul 16 17:23:35 use a api request to download a file Jul 16 17:23:39 i'm working on an application Jul 16 17:23:42 then use commands to install it Jul 16 17:23:48 that's funny that you would stay steal your idea Jul 16 17:23:53 heh Jul 16 17:23:57 keep it up pG Jul 16 17:23:59 lol its been out there for a while Jul 16 17:23:59 does the SDK work with the 3.0 vbox ? Jul 16 17:24:15 PreGame: you should be open to releasing stuff. Jul 16 17:24:20 ... Jul 16 17:24:23 someone might take your idea but you are the orginator Jul 16 17:24:27 screw that i'm greedy Jul 16 17:24:34 j/k Jul 16 17:24:35 what is there to gain? Jul 16 17:24:36 nah Jul 16 17:24:39 hes kiddin Jul 16 17:24:45 cause i'll stop sharing my ideas too Jul 16 17:24:49 i am putting together a PoC first Jul 16 17:24:54 to make sure it will work Jul 16 17:24:55 i think the point is , Jul 16 17:25:00 its going to somewhat effect palm.com Jul 16 17:25:09 ^^ Jul 16 17:25:13 Robi_: supposedly yes Jul 16 17:25:16 like the ipkg over email did , no? Jul 16 17:25:21 yea yea release it under GNU and call it a day Jul 16 17:25:23 yep :) Jul 16 17:25:28 haha Jul 16 17:25:36 i'm going to sell it for $99.99 Jul 16 17:25:39 lmfaoo Jul 16 17:25:45 * oc80z attaks PreGame Jul 16 17:25:46 ill come steal your computer Jul 16 17:25:47 lol Jul 16 17:25:51 lol Jul 16 17:25:56 * oc80z 2 damage Jul 16 17:25:56 * oc80z 2 damage Jul 16 17:26:09 how do you do the * thing im new to irc Jul 16 17:26:09 ? Jul 16 17:26:10 I will give you a 10% discount coupon Jul 16 17:26:13 * atlanta test Jul 16 17:26:16 nevermind Jul 16 17:26:18 is /me Jul 16 17:26:20 i remembered Jul 16 17:26:20 lol Jul 16 17:26:25 and /ame for all windows Jul 16 17:26:53 and /exit for reality. Jul 16 17:27:26 tsk. Jul 16 17:27:43 i need to throw a patch in for search-addons Jul 16 17:27:51 there's a command to put stars around whatever I say IRL? Jul 16 17:27:54 cool! Jul 16 17:28:02 HEH Jul 16 17:28:07 /me can't make it work! Jul 16 17:28:18 thats japaneese right Jul 16 17:28:26 sue meh sehy Jul 16 17:29:56 PuffTheMagic: there a difference in using the sun.com or vbox.org version? Jul 16 17:30:10 nfc Jul 16 17:31:03 guess ill bbl or somthin Jul 16 17:31:35 2TB Cavalry CADA002SA2-H Hard Drive Array for $199.99 + Free Shipping (Regular Price: $235) Jul 16 17:31:52 Updated to: Gadget and Gear Deals of the Day [Dealhacker] - http://tinyurl.com/nky8sp Jul 16 17:31:54 Later pplz Jul 16 17:32:58 ohhh eclipse plugin ftw! Jul 16 17:36:21 PreGame: lay off the drugs, man Jul 16 17:36:26 :) Jul 16 17:36:56 $100 catalog lol Jul 16 17:37:22 lol Jul 16 17:38:04 atlanta: agreeing to the terms is agreeing to the terms, doesn't matter what version of sdk you use Jul 16 17:39:55 true hehehehe Jul 16 17:40:00 but oh well Jul 16 17:40:03 whatever Jul 16 17:40:31 if they do sue wont get money out of my semi broke ass Jul 16 17:40:31 lol Jul 16 17:41:03 atlanta: that's not quite how suing works :) Jul 16 17:41:13 "oh, you can't pay? oh, well then nevermind" Jul 16 17:41:28 lol summatusmentis enlighten me Jul 16 17:41:28 is there a public list of the apps in the app catelog, or do u actually need a pre to see what is available Jul 16 17:41:45 because im no lawyer Jul 16 17:41:48 atlanta: I assume being sued means you're required to pay, by whatever means necessary Jul 16 17:41:52 which means loans, etc. Jul 16 17:41:57 PuffTheMagic: for now you need a pre. I want to make an open client but we don't have one yet Jul 16 17:42:06 the judge may take pity on you if you're living in a box somewhere, but yeah Jul 16 17:42:37 if you're developing software while living in a box, I'm impressed Jul 16 17:42:38 summatusmentis: gotcha but in the long wrong someone won't be getting there money Jul 16 17:42:46 destinal: lol Jul 16 17:43:13 atlanta: good luck with that Jul 16 17:43:46 summatusmentis: thanks i mean not that i was gonna break the EULA anyway just like stating outside the box Jul 16 17:43:46 lol Jul 16 17:43:57 heh Jul 16 17:44:16 just dont put your name on things u release... then u can break the TOS all day long ;) Jul 16 17:46:16 * destinal points to topic Jul 16 17:48:14 * PuffTheMagic hides in shame Jul 16 17:48:27 heh Jul 16 17:48:35 good day all, Do you happen to know where to get the novacom software? The one in palm's link is giving a 404 Jul 16 17:48:42 yup yup offshore VPN /ftw Jul 16 17:48:59 brontos: download the sdk mine was packaged with it Jul 16 17:49:01 since it's in an open URL I assume they intend anyone to have it Jul 16 17:49:02 https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1/sdkBinaries/palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb Jul 16 17:49:22 vbox is pissing me off Jul 16 17:49:28 the one on the page is a broken link but it's not a registration required link Jul 16 17:49:42 so I assume they just haven't fixed it to point at the new directory as above Jul 16 17:49:50 atlanta: where was it located when you installed the sdk? Also what OS are you using? Jul 16 17:50:08 It auto installed within the sdk isntall Jul 16 17:50:09 windows xp Jul 16 17:50:11 u? Jul 16 17:50:31 for linux it's a seperate package, note the .deb there Jul 16 17:50:55 atlanta: oh I am using linux Jul 16 17:51:15 anything new in the official sdk vs the pre release? Jul 16 17:51:31 brontos: that would be the problem Jul 16 17:51:39 destinal: i see it now loser Jul 16 17:51:39 lol Jul 16 17:52:01 heh Jul 16 17:52:25 YAY it runs now! Jul 16 17:52:47 what do do first.... Jul 16 17:52:51 so many ideas Jul 16 17:52:59 PuffTheMagic: novaterm also? Jul 16 17:53:04 PuffTheMagic: thats exactly how i felyt Jul 16 17:53:07 and palm-install etc etc Jul 16 17:53:15 i think im going to go home and read the docs Jul 16 17:53:16 all night Jul 16 17:53:46 destinal: ty Jul 16 17:54:06 cool beans sdk is out for everyone now? Jul 16 17:54:14 just in time for apple to close up itunes Jul 16 17:54:20 opie: yes Jul 16 17:54:40 opie: doubletwist is much better anyway Jul 16 17:54:49 lets me manage more than just my damn ipod Jul 16 17:54:54 and there damn macntrash Jul 16 17:55:58 PuffTheMagic: you could join me on hacking graphical plugins! ;) btw if you get eclipse and the eclipse plugins and egit you should be able to pull down the projects from the repository and one-click install them Jul 16 17:56:13 w00t Jul 16 17:56:17 :D Jul 16 17:56:22 got mojo installed on aptana without eclipse Jul 16 17:56:30 aptana? Jul 16 17:56:33 yeah thats my next step.... getting the plugin installed Jul 16 17:56:38 aptana > eclipse Jul 16 17:56:40 its an ide Jul 16 17:56:44 oh ok Jul 16 17:56:44 no way Jul 16 17:56:47 eclipse ftw! Jul 16 17:56:47 aptana makes me shiver Jul 16 17:57:00 its much more robust Jul 16 17:57:05 destinal: yeah im gonna work on new kenel and the terminal thing with you Jul 16 17:57:47 destinal: can i help out or watch Jul 16 17:57:47 ? Jul 16 17:58:46 teamviewer ftw Jul 16 17:59:55 atlanta: we're using git in the gitorious applications repository Jul 16 18:00:14 oh ok comment stuff i wanna learn Jul 16 18:00:22 atlanta: and there are eclipse projects in it so with the eclipse egit plugin you should be able to check out Jul 16 18:00:28 ok Jul 16 18:00:35 hopefully you guys like to teach Jul 16 18:00:38 because im down for learning Jul 16 18:00:56 atlanta: yeah, if we can get you up to speed to the point where you can contribute, all the better Jul 16 18:02:11 anyone running mojo on something other than ubuntu (linux) Jul 16 18:02:22 yeah i have it on gentoo Jul 16 18:02:29 mickeyl: hey, you have graphics experience right? we're trying to make a terminal in a browser plugin and at this point we just have something like a gdk-pixbuf (a pointer to a chunk of RGBA values and dimensions) Jul 16 18:03:01 PuffTheMagic: able to run the emulator? Jul 16 18:03:06 yeah it runs Jul 16 18:03:24 using vbox 3 Jul 16 18:03:29 2 prob works Jul 16 18:03:34 since palm hasn't released their vector graphics library we either need to figure out the proper headers for it or port another graphics library to Jul 16 18:03:35 but i needed newer kernel modules Jul 16 18:03:37 did you use the palm-emulator script? or just move the vmdk? Jul 16 18:03:41 cause i am running 31-rc3 Jul 16 18:03:58 alphakamp: i extracted the data.tar.gz file out of the dep package Jul 16 18:04:03 and then extracted that to / Jul 16 18:04:08 PuffTheMagic: you may have problems Jul 16 18:04:13 destinal: my gtk knowledge is rusty, can't you use vte and bind it via XEMBED? Jul 16 18:04:18 puts everything in /opt and /usr/local/bin Jul 16 18:04:22 extracted to / ?? Jul 16 18:04:24 ah Jul 16 18:04:24 destinal: i think i am good Jul 16 18:04:36 i have installed debian and ubuntu crap like that before Jul 16 18:04:50 mickeyl: there's a custom palm draw event with their own struct as opposed to using any of the standard mechanisms Jul 16 18:04:51 and i have novacomd running in background Jul 16 18:04:55 seems to be working Jul 16 18:04:57 it's mostly NPAPI Jul 16 18:05:08 but there are some custom events Jul 16 18:05:59 mickeyl: and also luna != X Jul 16 18:06:07 ah Jul 16 18:06:10 almost forgot about that Jul 16 18:06:11 destinal: is there anyway around the profile thing on the pre emu? Jul 16 18:06:18 since you said gdk-pixbuf Jul 16 18:06:21 seems the novacomd link is dead.. Jul 16 18:06:23 gdk via directfb? Jul 16 18:06:28 destinal: sounds good Jul 16 18:06:56 mickeyl: well it's not actually a gdk-pixbuf but their own struct, but it's similar Jul 16 18:06:58 alphakamp: destinal posted a working link Jul 16 18:07:18 we have a screen buffer of RGBA values and row length and a rectangle of start and end x and y Jul 16 18:07:56 and since I don't know much of graphics I just wrote 320x480 blue pixels into it, that works Jul 16 18:08:06 but I want to port a terminal program to drawing to that Jul 16 18:08:09 alphakamp: https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1/sdkBinaries/palm-novacom_0.3-svn177284-hud9_i386.deb Jul 16 18:08:26 destinal: then you could use libvte and teach it drawing into a buffer instead Jul 16 18:08:34 and rip out the X specifics Jul 16 18:08:41 naaa Jul 16 18:08:45 libvte needs gtk Jul 16 18:09:02 we "could" build gtk for the arm/pre Jul 16 18:09:13 but i am trying to find a better solution Jul 16 18:09:19 there are opensource terms that dont need vte Jul 16 18:09:25 that we could base things on Jul 16 18:10:03 start an X server on another VT and forget about porting ;) Jul 16 18:10:10 * mickeyl hides Jul 16 18:10:10 :D Jul 16 18:10:23 mickeyl: that's not bad if we can get VT's going Jul 16 18:10:28 yeah Jul 16 18:10:34 it would allow you to keep the present OS Jul 16 18:10:37 PuffTheMagic: thank you for the link Jul 16 18:10:39 but integrate all kinds of apps Jul 16 18:10:39 that would be easy Jul 16 18:10:41 on demand Jul 16 18:10:44 look at the chvt app Jul 16 18:10:45 or even an x root in a browser plugin could work Jul 16 18:10:52 in busybox Jul 16 18:11:24 I've never tried porting any of that sort of thing Jul 16 18:12:00 mickeyl: are you one of the folks harald mentioned wanting pre's to start hacking on? (with or without GSM?) Jul 16 18:12:29 yes, that's me Jul 16 18:12:48 destinal: see pm Jul 16 18:12:49 me and my team (freesmartphone.org) Jul 16 18:12:58 you know you want to help us integrate with luna rather than just running straight OM, right? :) Jul 16 18:13:07 oh FSO Jul 16 18:13:09 anyone have the eclipse plugin installed? Jul 16 18:13:23 download link is broke Jul 16 18:13:49 how is FSO going btw mickeyl ? Jul 16 18:13:52 you don't click the link you install eclipse then click on help -> update software and add the link there Jul 16 18:14:41 summatusmentis: great. apart from the big Openmoko lossage, we started w/ FSO 2.0, rewriting it in Vala Jul 16 18:14:54 PreGame: clarification, the link to download eclipse is broke Jul 16 18:15:18 really??? i just clicked it 10 minutes ago and it worked Jul 16 18:15:32 mickeyl: cool :) where's the next step? WebOS/Android? Jul 16 18:15:34 straight from the palm doc Jul 16 18:15:47 what link did you use? Just tried it about 5 min ago and it 404'd Jul 16 18:15:53 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1639 Jul 16 18:15:58 i used the windows one Jul 16 18:16:04 they fixed it again Jul 16 18:16:06 haha Jul 16 18:16:43 summatusmentis: Android is of little interest to me. WebOS seems more interesting, although it remains to be seen whether introducing an alternative middleware makes sense there. I'm more interested in the actual hardware, less in the OS Jul 16 18:16:50 since there is so few free hardware Jul 16 18:17:09 mickeyl: :-D Why doesn't Android interest you? Jul 16 18:17:14 just out of curiosity Jul 16 18:17:53 mickeyl: I too want to figure out a way to get free hardware, but that's just because I'm a poor college student :) Jul 16 18:18:13 heh Jul 16 18:18:18 free as in speach Jul 16 18:18:31 oh, well, there's that too >_> Jul 16 18:18:44 android is not interesting to me because it's a completely other system Jul 16 18:18:50 it's Android/Linux, not GNU/Linux Jul 16 18:19:03 ah, that's fair Jul 16 18:19:06 too many differences to consider Jul 16 18:19:16 yeh, entirely reasonable Jul 16 18:21:24 PuffTheMagic: i guess you had to change the permissions.. of everything manually? Jul 16 18:21:56 nope Jul 16 18:21:59 errr Jul 16 18:22:07 hi mickeyl Jul 16 18:22:09 i had to chmod 777 the image file Jul 16 18:22:16 i was getting some UUID error Jul 16 18:22:58 hey rwhitby Jul 16 18:23:11 hrmm .. android/linux? it seems like it is more hybrid than that - they still use glibc, don't they ? Jul 16 18:24:05 something heavily modified according to my sources Jul 16 18:24:25 PuffTheMagic: when as root you exctracted the data.tar.gz you didn have to change permissions Jul 16 18:24:27 oh, glibc is even heavily modified ? Jul 16 18:24:31 interesting Jul 16 18:24:40 hmm Jul 16 18:24:42 let me recheck Jul 16 18:24:55 ah right Jul 16 18:24:59 not even that Jul 16 18:24:59 nope Jul 16 18:25:00 "Google developed a custom library for the C compiler (libc) called Bionic. This was necessary for three main reasons: " Jul 16 18:25:04 ... Jul 16 18:26:27 wow Jul 16 18:26:38 yeah Jul 16 18:26:48 so it is a lot less hybrid than i thought Jul 16 18:26:49 i don't use the term Android/Linux lightheartedly Jul 16 18:26:51 very interesting Jul 16 18:27:10 welcome stefan_schmidt Jul 16 18:27:54 hi mickeyl Jul 16 18:33:27 got it Jul 16 18:33:41 need to keep novacom up though.. Jul 16 18:37:54 bzhou * r10461 optware/trunk/make/libpng.mk: libpng: 1.2.37 -> 1.2.38 Jul 16 18:53:01 So, the SDK is available at https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.1/sdkBinaries/Palm_Mojo_SDK-Mac-1.1.0-sdk62-build08.pkg, and you don't need to click through an EULA to access the files inside that package. Jul 16 18:53:34 Therefore , the information in those files is public. Jul 16 18:54:42 And, people who don't click through the EULA can distribute applications based on that information outside of the Palm App store without any legal impediment (since the information is no longer under an NDA) Jul 16 18:55:11 does this mean by using the SDK you aren't obligated to only distribute using the app catalog? Jul 16 18:55:30 read my mind Jul 16 18:55:36 djk: depends whether you click the EULA or not. Jul 16 18:55:49 if you don't agree to an EULA, you can't be bound by it. Jul 16 18:55:49 click wha t:-P Jul 16 18:56:31 we have access to the internals of the Doctor, and the internals of the SDK, all without needing to click through any agreements. Jul 16 18:56:37 the path is clear. Jul 16 18:56:50 just use that power for good, not evil ;-) Jul 16 18:57:37 let's hope it is a good all the time Jul 16 19:00:48 read this guys post Jul 16 19:00:51 its ashame Jul 16 19:00:52 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=64&p=185#p185 Jul 16 19:01:56 my smart ass always have something to say hehehehe Jul 16 19:02:09 atlanta: well if they break win2k that's a bug and they'll probably want to fix it Jul 16 19:02:16 no no no Jul 16 19:02:18 he installed xp Jul 16 19:02:21 and it broke xp Jul 16 19:02:22 I'm just going to install under a VMWare copy and that should protect me Jul 16 19:03:07 here is a discussion on the fourm http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193057-read-before-accepting-palm-sdk-tos.html Jul 16 19:03:18 destinal: it was just beyond me how he accused palm for his problems Jul 16 19:06:03 FreeTim3: yeah but emulators under emulators feel kind of dodgy to me Jul 16 19:07:24 * rwhitby has removed any mention of NDA from the /topic, since there is no longer any NDAs in force for the SDK Jul 16 19:07:38 @destinal : I'll print out a copy of the emulator and fax it to myself, then I can scan it into a .pdf Jul 16 19:08:12 lol Jul 16 19:08:52 * rwhitby declares http://ipkg.webos-internals.org to be a "test environment" as per section 4.2 of the Palm SDK License Agreement Jul 16 19:08:52 lol Jul 16 19:09:13 rwhitby: hehehe i like Jul 16 19:10:15 This is where the open source Pre applications feed will reside. s/applications/test applications Jul 16 19:10:45 lol now that's service Jul 16 19:10:46 mikewx: refresh the page Jul 16 19:11:37 This is where the open source Pre applications feed will reside. Jul 16 19:11:37 This site is declared to be a "Test Environment" as defined by Section 4.2 of the Palm SDK License Agreement. Jul 16 19:11:45 rwhitby: awesome Jul 16 19:12:17 if it ever came up in court it could be argued but if it gets there that's bad anyway Jul 16 19:12:27 ok, any other loose ends we need to tie up before we can get back to making this device do more cool things? Jul 16 19:13:33 rwhitby: think we about hit it Jul 16 19:14:01 oh fyi for those of you running the eclipse plugin you can commit .project files and push them into the repositories and egit in eclipse will import Jul 16 19:14:26 I have set up the basicplugin and org.webosinternals.helloplugin that way Jul 16 19:14:46 oh, I guess I should declare the gitorious repos to be test environments too ... Jul 16 19:15:14 so if you have the egit modules you can import, select, and one click to build and install. it's very nice. Jul 16 19:16:08 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals updated Jul 16 19:16:48 http://gitorious.org/webos-applications updated Jul 16 19:17:00 rwhitby: lol Jul 16 19:20:27 off of work Jul 16 19:20:29 time to go Jul 16 19:20:30 home Jul 16 19:20:31 bbl Jul 16 19:22:08 Hello all Jul 16 19:22:55 I am shocked that there seems to be no x64 support in the released SDK Jul 16 19:31:28 don't i386 apps work fine under x64 platforms? Jul 16 19:31:50 whoa whats this Jul 16 19:32:07 gtk stuff in Webcore/platform Jul 16 19:32:11 libvte might work afterall Jul 16 19:38:35 * rwhitby adds a 2GB .vdi disk to VirtualBox to mount as /opt in the emulator Jul 16 19:41:32 * rwhitby also adds a second host-only network interface alongside the NAT interface, and adjusts /etc/network/interfaces to make it come up on a static IP Jul 16 19:42:56 PuffTheMagic: well it might be for another platform Jul 16 19:43:05 webkit is a cross platform framework Jul 16 19:46:22 sorry Destinal Jul 16 19:46:24 i was away Jul 16 19:46:58 for people who are wondering about what your Pre sends back to Palm, see http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals/webos-internals.20090630.txt timestamp Jun 29 09:06:14 Jul 16 19:47:02 i get the ereeo that tells me i should have a high version of VirtualBox installed Jul 16 19:47:05 error Jul 16 19:47:35 destinal: gdk_draw_rectangle((GdkDrawable*)drawEvent->dstBuffer, (GdkGC*)drawEvent->graphicsContext, TRUE, 0, 0, 320, 480); Jul 16 19:47:40 seems to work Jul 16 19:47:51 had to link against gdk-2.0 Jul 16 19:47:54 rwhitby interesting Jul 16 19:48:08 rdxd upload tarballs contain the device serial number, the device uid, the phone meid, ps -f output, a list of java threads, a list of wireless ssids that are in range, your current network connection details, and other syslog information. Jul 16 19:48:31 PuffTheMagic: awesome Jul 16 19:48:42 rwhitby so would that contain the currently active mojo apps? Jul 16 19:48:56 that's a huge win Jul 16 19:49:02 raja_: I would expect so Jul 16 19:49:19 any ideas why they are doing this Jul 16 19:49:26 PuffTheMagic: we still have to adapt to drawevents, they're not always for the whole screen Jul 16 19:49:27 raja_: to debug crashes Jul 16 19:49:38 PuffTheMagic: and the screen (our embed) can vary in size Jul 16 19:49:46 hmm maybe it didnt work Jul 16 19:49:47 idk Jul 16 19:49:50 it didnt segfault Jul 16 19:49:54 thats for sure Jul 16 19:50:05 raja_: you agreed to it in the EULA you clicked when you turned on the device (assuming you didn't bypass activation) Jul 16 19:50:43 PuffTheMagic: you can debug better if you initctcl stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr Jul 16 19:50:56 err initctl Jul 16 19:51:06 PuffTheMagic: nice work with gdk Jul 16 19:51:10 PuffTheMagic: then you get stderr Jul 16 19:52:57 anyone using OpenSolaris? Jul 16 19:53:25 infobot: save Jul 16 19:53:26 saved user and chan files Jul 16 19:53:30 ~logs Jul 16 19:53:31 All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Jul 16 19:54:22 TimRiker: thanks! Jul 16 19:55:06 np :) Jul 16 20:00:45 infobot: botsnack Jul 16 20:00:45 thanks, rwhitby Jul 16 20:01:19 hi timriker Jul 16 20:03:27 what would be the most useful way to try to hook up with a coder who's looking for an idea for a pre app? Jul 16 20:04:35 glass_: I think at the phase we're at there are no coders not already working on good ideas Jul 16 20:04:38 heh /opt Jul 16 20:04:39 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Jun 28 23:19 ipkg-39Mfyg Jul 16 20:04:39 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Jun 20 01:06 ipkg-dNlCWu Jul 16 20:04:39 drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Jun 19 21:29 ipkg-lkM72Q Jul 16 20:04:45 we're high on ideas, low on implementors Jul 16 20:04:59 gotcha Jul 16 20:05:00 has anyone here tried this on mac os x 10.5? http://predev.wikidot.com/usbnet-setup Jul 16 20:07:09 * rwhitby wonders if that will work on the emulator ... Jul 16 20:07:50 glass_ you could wave very very large sums of money in the air. Jul 16 20:08:06 For enough money, several coders would set aside the project they're working on. Jul 16 20:08:24 In general, that kind of attention starts somewhere north of $100 an hour. Jul 16 20:09:08 the other technique is to have a REALLY GOOD IDEA ... so good it drags coders awayfrom what THEY are working on just 'cause it's so darned cool. Jul 16 20:09:09 Oh boy, well, I wish I could. I'm an MFA student in poetry, and I've noticed all the poetry implementations that aren't magnetic poetry knockoffs are....either not there or terrible on the pre (ie the stuff from poets.org) Jul 16 20:09:18 Both are unlikey, but feel free to go for it. Jul 16 20:09:36 nodnod Jul 16 20:09:40 so what is it you want? Jul 16 20:09:49 glass_: the most useful way in this channel is to just state the idea ... Jul 16 20:09:59 ugh there a terminal app yet? Jul 16 20:10:20 not yet Robi_ they're working on it. it turns out to be someehwat harder than we thought. Jul 16 20:10:30 i bet Jul 16 20:10:49 PuffTheMagic may have found a key element within the last hour. I'm not sure, but it SOUNDED good. Jul 16 20:10:53 all i've done is to imagine carrying well formatted poetry in my pocket. Easy highlighting, easy note taking, tagging one poem to another, poem of the day, etc et Jul 16 20:11:03 so glass_ go for it. What is it you want? Jul 16 20:11:05 oh? Jul 16 20:11:06 dont celebrate yet Jul 16 20:11:17 Key - not final Jul 16 20:11:18 this is without the webos-internals pkg for shell cmds right Jul 16 20:11:21 drawEvent definately has a buffer and graphic context Jul 16 20:11:26 which is needed for most gdk shit Jul 16 20:11:27 there's *nothing* i've found even in the itunes app store that does that Jul 16 20:11:38 * PuffTheMagic still working this out Jul 16 20:11:39 does what? Jul 16 20:11:53 PuffTheMagic: small steady steps are good :-) Jul 16 20:12:21 displays poems formatted correctly on a phone, allows touch highlighting, easy note taking, and tagging one poem to another Jul 16 20:12:29 for those wondering who infobot is, see http://www.infobot.org/guide-0.43.x.html Jul 16 20:12:51 heh, I just closed that page. Jul 16 20:13:07 but, obvi, this is poetry....so not really tons of initial $$ Jul 16 20:13:18 i just know *i'd* pay $1 for this app! Jul 16 20:13:42 besides, ebook reading on a phone can get really tedious Jul 16 20:13:52 poems work easier Jul 16 20:14:34 no one has gotten that to work with OS X? Jul 16 20:14:44 glass_: since all that could be done with the standard Palm SDK, you'll probably find more app developers in #webos Jul 16 20:15:29 wtf ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.101 port 22: Connection refused Jul 16 20:15:38 it worked until i rebooted the device Jul 16 20:15:41 oops sorry, didn't mean to be off topic! thanks Jul 16 20:15:50 this is without the webos-internals pkg for shell cmds right? Jul 16 20:16:03 glass_: not really off topic, no problem. Jul 16 20:16:32 glass_: i.e. you might have had some idea about hooking it up to the linux 'fortune' command or something ;-) Jul 16 20:17:19 jcrawford: I've found that occasionally one needs to reconnect after a reboot - first try fails Jul 16 20:17:32 ok will try again Jul 16 20:17:39 jcrawford: fyi - in my putty config, I'm connecting to port 222 Jul 16 20:17:54 yea i changed it to 22 Jul 16 20:18:31 jcrawford: real Pre or emulator? Jul 16 20:18:37 real pre Jul 16 20:18:50 ok, cause the emulator starts dropbear itself on port 22 Jul 16 20:19:16 jcrawford: you changed both the dropbear options and the iptables commands? Jul 16 20:19:34 i did not change the iptables because i do not want to ssh over evdo Jul 16 20:19:47 just wifi and usb cable if possible but that is looking close to impossible on os x Jul 16 20:19:56 jcrawford: then your iptables is only allowing port 222 and not 22 Jul 16 20:20:31 oh rwhitby no i changed the port there too Jul 16 20:20:43 i thought you were talking about the -i eth0 Jul 16 20:21:07 jcrawford: ok, dunno then. Jul 16 20:21:13 rebooting device to see if it is working now Jul 16 20:23:33 hmm now it is just hanging Jul 16 20:23:35 wtf Jul 16 20:25:05 hmm now it is just timing out Jul 16 20:25:58 AVAILABLE:~ jcrawford$ ssh jcrawford@192.168.1.101 -p 22 Jul 16 20:25:58 ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.101 port 22: Operation timed out Jul 16 20:26:33 did it work before you chagned the ports? Jul 16 20:28:00 did you make sure your iptables rule allowed port 22 ? Jul 16 20:28:41 yes Jul 16 20:28:49 odd it does not seem like dropbear is running Jul 16 20:28:54 http://pastie.org/548632 Jul 16 20:29:26 brb Jul 16 20:33:09 * rwhitby has updated http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-internals-irc-channel-policy to reflect the SDK is no longer under NDA Jul 16 20:34:19 if it's timing out you probably have firewall rule issues. if the firewall rule was right and dropbear wasn't running, you'd get connection refused Jul 16 20:34:55 hmm' Jul 16 20:35:04 so what would you suggest I do to get ssh working again? Jul 16 20:35:29 hi guys, i have a question about reverting to 1.0.3, is that possible? Jul 16 20:35:45 jcrawford: use the original root access procedure and check the dropbear install on port 222 first. Jul 16 20:35:46 enable dev mode and get back in the way you originally rooted the pre. figure out what is wrong from there Jul 16 20:36:00 MoMail: it is if you have a copy of the 1.0.3 webOS Doctor Jul 16 20:36:05 i am in that way Jul 16 20:36:23 i was able to use commander when i broke my dropbear script to start a new drop bear and add a firewall Jul 16 20:36:26 ok cool, is anyone keeping a copy of each image whenever there is an upgrade? Jul 16 20:36:27 rule Jul 16 20:36:34 whats up with PGContextIface-hacked? Jul 16 20:36:42 i dont have 1.0.3 but I can start keeping them from now on Jul 16 20:36:53 MoMail: I'm sure a number of people here are, but since they are Palm copyright files we cannot publicly redistribute them. Jul 16 20:37:32 ok if anyone wants to talk privately with me feel free ;) Jul 16 20:37:57 im back Jul 16 20:38:07 also is there an easy way to check exactly what was changed when the upgrade occurs, to know exactly what they change? Jul 16 20:38:09 isnt the latest webos doc still 1.0.03 ? Jul 16 20:38:17 MoMail: on Palm support site Jul 16 20:38:31 is it just a matter of making a back up and then comparing the changed files? Jul 16 20:38:40 i checked with webos doctor today Jul 16 20:38:45 and their image is 1.0.4 :( Jul 16 20:38:56 ahh nice Jul 16 20:39:13 yeah pretty good of them to do that Jul 16 20:39:21 just doesnt help me ;) Jul 16 20:39:22 finally, lol Jul 16 20:39:25 what do you want to do Jul 16 20:39:25 ? Jul 16 20:39:34 do you have it with you ? Jul 16 20:39:54 i want to test the email link package installation method and look at the code responsible Jul 16 20:40:16 awww ok hopefully we come out with a better method soon Jul 16 20:40:27 you can already patch it Jul 16 20:40:43 no need for the email thing Jul 16 20:40:45 atlanta: somebody fixed their "Out Of Memory" error Jul 16 20:40:50 tehnoir: Jul 16 20:40:50 Unfortunately it wasn't me. Jul 16 20:40:50 how Jul 16 20:40:51 ? Jul 16 20:40:59 iyeah i have already rooted it etc as per the wiki Jul 16 20:40:59 For them it was fixed by remove ajaxterm Jul 16 20:41:13 oh gotcha Jul 16 20:41:23 but wanted to see why the email link worked, where the bug was and see if I could dig around for similar code elsewhere in the OS Jul 16 20:41:34 MoMail: oh ok gotcha Jul 16 20:41:43 ah ok that's useful to know tehnoir Jul 16 20:43:40 MoMail, im confused what are you trying to do exactly Jul 16 20:43:58 we already have a patch to enable 1.0.4 ipkg downloads Jul 16 20:44:44 My desktop also started BSODing a few days ago. Maybe my electronics are just turning on me. Jul 16 20:44:47 i want to look at the code responsible for the email link vulnerability, and understand why it worked, and see if there is other code in the OS that would enable you to install a package without rooting the device Jul 16 20:44:54 point a click type deal Jul 16 20:46:31 MoMail: My uneducated guess would be it wasn't necessarily the code that was in there, it's what was left out. Perhaps they had a check in the browser to disallow certain extensions, but they didn't include one in the e-mail. Jul 16 20:46:32 ok i got rid of dropbear Jul 16 20:46:38 and installed openssh seems to work just fine now Jul 16 20:47:02 ah ok yeah that would make sense Jul 16 20:47:05 so has anyone here gotten the ssh over usb working on mac os x 10.5 yet? Jul 16 20:47:22 i'll dig around and see what i can find, thanks for the info Jul 16 20:48:43 jcrawford: yes... but it's not ready to share yet Jul 16 20:48:48 I just put it in the wiki Jul 16 20:48:56 mdklein: darn i want it lol Jul 16 20:49:06 the pre forces usbnet to use RNDIS which os-x does not implement Jul 16 20:49:07 i will keep my eye on the wiki for updates i guess :D Jul 16 20:49:23 mdklein: yea i installed the driver but that seemed to do nothing for my 10.5 system Jul 16 20:49:27 I modified the kernel module running on the pre so that it can talk the correct method Jul 16 20:49:32 i see no "extra" interfaces in my network devices Jul 16 20:49:42 however in doing so I broke novacom Jul 16 20:49:54 so I'm trying to figure out if I can just include both methods Jul 16 20:50:08 but I've been pretty busy w/work so it's been slow Jul 16 20:50:26 mdklein: no problem :) Jul 16 20:50:57 one question though is this. once I have ssh setup i can see my ip by using novaterm, do i have to use novaterm everytime i want to get my ip as it will change due to dhcp Jul 16 20:51:06 or is there an app i can install that will show that information? Jul 16 20:51:28 jcrawford: are you connecting via wifi? Jul 16 20:51:34 yes wifi Jul 16 20:51:48 jcrawford: go into the wifi settings, tap the connection, it will show the ip Jul 16 20:51:53 if the lease has expired Jul 16 20:52:20 nice thanks Jul 16 20:53:02 infobot: high five Jul 16 20:53:03 low five Jul 16 20:53:17 * PreGame pokes infobot in the eye Jul 16 20:53:33 infobot, help Jul 16 20:55:15 jcrawford : you can install DDNS works on Wifi and then you can connect to it all the time using a custom hostname like jcrawford.getmyip.com, which is kind of nice. Jul 16 20:57:19 Is there anyway to make it so that when I want to run a script I don't have to specify the location of the script? Like define the script to be a command or something? Jul 16 20:57:48 try echoing $0, that could be useful Jul 16 20:58:23 spell pregame Jul 16 20:58:58 infobot, spell mississippi Jul 16 20:59:00 possible spellings for mississippi: Mississippi Mississippi's Mississippian Jul 16 20:59:08 peee-are-ee-gee-aye-gee-em-ee Jul 16 20:59:19 lol Jul 16 20:59:20 atlanta: I just posted http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=52&p=238#p238 Jul 16 20:59:37 infobot, is it true canadian isn't a nationality but infact a disability? Jul 16 20:59:56 Thanks rwhitby Jul 16 20:59:59 rwhitby: boy, their forum is wonky Jul 16 21:00:04 infobot, tell PreGame about Canada Jul 16 21:00:12 Error: Infinite login loop intercepted. (when clicking your link) Jul 16 21:00:22 PuffTheMagic: PGContextiface-hacked.h is a hacked version of PGContextiface.h Because palm has not provided all the headers needed to build their version of webcore I had to comment out some functions. Jul 16 21:00:29 [2:00:03 pm] drnull wants you to know: We're sorry we called your president a moron, I mean he IS a moron but it wasn't nice of us to point it out. besides it's not like you voted him into office. Jul 16 21:00:40 hahaha Jul 16 21:01:05 * rwhitby waits for the usual infobot first-time-in-channel games die down ... ;-) Jul 16 21:01:20 infobot: tell me about Obama Jul 16 21:01:53 since we're toying with Bot at the moment may I ask, should we redefine mojo to be at the new download link Jul 16 21:02:16 also does it pick up delcaritive statements from just anyone ? Jul 16 21:02:25 yep Jul 16 21:02:26 declaritive Jul 16 21:02:49 infobot, don't forget FreeTim3 has the learning curve of a brick Jul 16 21:03:14 note that you can /msg infobot so the responses to off-topic questions will not clutter the channel ... Jul 16 21:04:21 wtf Jul 16 21:04:53 infobot: please note Mojo SDK is now public Jul 16 21:04:54 okay, PreGame Jul 16 21:05:20 infobot: Also note you can download the Mojo SDK at http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:05:38 infobot: note you can download the Mojo SDK at http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:05:39 * infobot takes note of you can download the Mojo SDK at http://developer.palm.com and submits the information to google Jul 16 21:05:47 infobot: sdk is The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:05:48 ...but sdk is already something else... Jul 16 21:05:54 infobot: what is mojo? Jul 16 21:05:55 [mojo] the libido, the life force, the right stuff, the essence, what the french call a certain ... oh I don't know what. Jul 16 21:06:16 infobot: no, sdk is The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:06:17 rwhitby: okay Jul 16 21:06:21 ~sdk Jul 16 21:06:22 sdk is, like, The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:06:31 infobot: is osama really a dirty wizard or homeless santa Jul 16 21:06:44 infobot: is osama really a dirty wizard or homeless santa? Jul 16 21:06:54 PreGame: please use /msg for offtopic stuff and don't pollute our infobot. Jul 16 21:07:10 infobot: will PreGame finally use /msg and quit cluttering the channel? Jul 16 21:07:18 no Jul 16 21:07:25 PreGame: didn't ask you Jul 16 21:07:31 lol Jul 16 21:07:32 ;) Jul 16 21:08:04 infobot: wiki is The webos-internals wiki can be found at http://predev.wikidot.com (for the time being) Jul 16 21:08:09 I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=is+The+webos-internals+wiki+can+be+found+at+http://predev.wikidot.com+(for+the+time+being)&go=Go Jul 16 21:08:29 doh! wiki is a reserved command Jul 16 21:08:32 infobot: where can i download webos homebrew apps? Jul 16 21:09:42 infobot: When I say "check the wiki" I want you to respond with "Please visit http://predev.wikidot.com for information regarding the topic in question!" Jul 16 21:10:15 infobot: repo is The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:10:16 ...but repo is already something else... Jul 16 21:10:23 infobot: no, repo is The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:10:24 okay, rwhitby Jul 16 21:10:27 ~repo Jul 16 21:10:28 extra, extra, read all about it, repo is The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:10:51 infobot: check the wiki is Please visit http://predev.wikidot.com for information regarding the topic in question! Jul 16 21:10:52 * infobot slams the wiki is Please visit http://predev.wikidot.com for information regarding the topic in question! into the glass nose first Jul 16 21:11:06 wow a bit harsh Jul 16 21:11:18 PreGame: the first word is a command. it doesn't understand plain english questions Jul 16 21:11:38 "check" is like "lart" Jul 16 21:11:39 can it not use multiple words Jul 16 21:11:47 PreGame: just read the doco Jul 16 21:11:50 so has anybody seen an error when trying to send mail "java.io.IOException: unable to make space in filecache" Jul 16 21:11:57 infobot: checkthewiki is Please visit http://predev.wikidot.com for information regarding the topic in question! Jul 16 21:11:58 okay, PreGame Jul 16 21:12:06 I'm assuming I'm out of space somehow, but not sure where the pre stores email Jul 16 21:12:45 infobot: !repo is The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:12:46 okay, PreGame Jul 16 21:12:55 !repo Jul 16 21:13:05 grrrr eclipse and debug feature killling me Jul 16 21:13:09 infobot: !repo Jul 16 21:13:10 somebody said !repo was The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:13:24 lamontsf: did you run a df to see? Jul 16 21:13:45 rwhitby: didn't you get services to run on the emu? Jul 16 21:13:47 ~repo Jul 16 21:13:48 emulator Jul 16 21:13:48 [repo] say The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:14:07 sushi2, not yet Jul 16 21:14:12 PreGame: haven't tried that yet Jul 16 21:14:30 i thought you had .shell running on the emulator Jul 16 21:15:29 ~repo Jul 16 21:15:30 The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 16 21:15:33 why am i finding an ircd user in my passwd file? Jul 16 21:15:42 irc:*:39:39:ircd:/var/run/ircd:/bin/sh Jul 16 21:15:56 PreGame: nope Jul 16 21:16:36 PreGame: but I can try it tomorrow Jul 16 21:16:59 anybody got eclipse debug to work good Jul 16 21:17:00 ? Jul 16 21:17:20 atlanta: work well. :D Jul 16 21:17:46 gkatsev: maybe its just i dont know how to step throug the code mind helping me in pm Jul 16 21:18:07 atlanta: lol, i meant to correct your grammar Jul 16 21:18:11 so, I tried to do the 'New Cards For Each Messaging Conversation' tutorial (http://predev.wikidot.com/carded-messaging) and it resulted in blank cards launching instead of conversations. When I reverted the file to the original it flat refuses to open a conversation. It highlights the name on click but does nothing Jul 16 21:18:23 gkatsev: aww you panzi lol Jul 16 21:18:24 thanks Jul 16 21:18:35 infobot: no, sdk is The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:18:37 rwhitby: okay Jul 16 21:18:39 flakmonkey: did you backup your files Jul 16 21:18:39 ? Jul 16 21:18:40 ~sdk Jul 16 21:18:41 The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:19:00 I didnt but I got the original from the SDK Jul 16 21:19:09 and loaded that via usb Jul 16 21:19:16 and copied it over the modded file Jul 16 21:19:34 flakmonkey: ok tech advice number 1 ALWAYS BACKUP Jul 16 21:19:43 maybe rwhitby should put that in the topic Jul 16 21:19:48 remember to BACKUP Jul 16 21:19:55 hmm, so running df on my pre shows no drives full Jul 16 21:20:29 right, but what would be different about my file compared to the SDK that would cause it not to work Jul 16 21:20:39 but I cannot send mail, cause I get an "unable to make space in filecache" Jul 16 21:20:53 flakmonkey: which file do you need Jul 16 21:20:54 ? Jul 16 21:21:03 or did you change Jul 16 21:21:03 ? Jul 16 21:21:05 hi Jul 16 21:21:16 listview-assistant.js and chatview-assistant.js Jul 16 21:21:23 ok hold on Jul 16 21:21:41 is there any way to report a serious issue with the windows installer? Jul 16 21:21:51 *of the webos sdk Jul 16 21:22:17 infobot: where is the sdk? Jul 16 21:22:19 destinal: I think you lost me on that one Jul 16 21:22:19 http://wiresocket.com/com.palm.app.messaging.rar Jul 16 21:22:29 thanks! Jul 16 21:22:31 irc:*:39:39:ircd:/var/run/ircd:/bin/sh Jul 16 21:22:33 no problem Jul 16 21:22:33 Ill report back in a sec Jul 16 21:22:37 let me know when you done downloading Jul 16 21:22:43 so i can delete it Jul 16 21:22:46 and also umm make sure you do Jul 16 21:22:50 infobot: sdk Jul 16 21:22:51 The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com Jul 16 21:22:53 stop LunaSysMgr Jul 16 21:22:56 cool Jul 16 21:22:58 then Jul 16 21:22:59 ok so now it's rooted what kind of fun stuff can i do haha Jul 16 21:23:02 start LunaSysMgr Jul 16 21:23:18 still curious why there is an irc/ircd user in my /etc/passwd file Jul 16 21:23:24 Im done Jul 16 21:23:31 ok Jul 16 21:23:35 infobot: random Jul 16 21:23:37 Hey destinal, toolbox _disposhandle is Atrap: 0xA023 Jul 16 21:23:44 jcrawford:we all have it Jul 16 21:24:00 destinal: lol Jul 16 21:24:03 mad random Jul 16 21:24:08 that's very random Jul 16 21:24:13 Interesting, I just got a "This message has been submitted successfully, but it will need to be approved by a moderator before it is publicly viewable. You will be notified when your post has been approved." on the Palm forum, on my second post, but not on my first post. Jul 16 21:25:00 MoMail: re installing ipk files. I believe you used to be able to call the installer via: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/open '{"target":"/tmp/pkg.ipk"}' Jul 16 21:25:12 however, that command now returns "open method does not support ipk files" Jul 16 21:25:15 ah, the post has been approved Jul 16 21:25:21 you'll find that string in LunaSysMgr Jul 16 21:25:45 along with: "Unauthorized call to open an ipk", which is a ray of hope... Jul 16 21:27:00 infobot: x en es palm pre is good. buy one now. Jul 16 21:27:03 la palma pre es buena. ahora compre uno. Jul 16 21:28:30 rwhitby: yea certain sections they moderate Jul 16 21:29:15 atlanta: That's fantastic. I'll assume that by letting my post through, Palm is officially agreeing with my interpretation of section 4.2 :-) Jul 16 21:29:45 oh wow you can see the full source for app installed on the phone? Jul 16 21:29:59 yep Jul 16 21:30:08 rwhitby: which post? Jul 16 21:30:09 rwhitby: what is section 4.2 and your interpretation of it? Jul 16 21:30:19 jcrawford: except for the binary plugins and shared libraries Jul 16 21:30:30 rwhitby: I concur because its wierd how they accepted my post but didnt answer Jul 16 21:30:41 gkatsev: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=238#p238 Jul 16 21:30:48 atlanta: uh, don't send copies of palm apps around (assuming that's what it was) -- send patches Jul 16 21:31:19 destinal: sorry was just quick thinking Jul 16 21:31:31 we want to stay happy with copyright law Jul 16 21:31:35 woot! messaging fixed Jul 16 21:31:43 atlanta: thanks a lot Jul 16 21:31:43 time to get into the nitty gritty and see how the big apps are done :D Jul 16 21:31:45 indeed Jul 16 21:31:53 flakmonkey: no problem Jul 16 21:31:55 rwhitby: what apps are binary plugins? Jul 16 21:32:01 destinal: well at least he got it fixed hehehehe Jul 16 21:32:02 sorry Jul 16 21:32:12 pandora i believe ? Jul 16 21:32:19 jcrawford: the /etc/passwd file on the Pre is built using OpenEmbedded, and includes a whole lot of accounts that are not used for anything. Jul 16 21:32:24 no not pandora Jul 16 21:32:33 jcrawford: classic is one Jul 16 21:32:40 jcrawford: http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins Jul 16 21:32:53 is there a forum moderator present please? Jul 16 21:33:05 socketbind: which forum? Jul 16 21:33:17 umm, webosdev Jul 16 21:33:20 web browser, media player, office, pdf, and navigator Jul 16 21:33:31 and classic Jul 16 21:33:39 hmm i can ssh to the phone Jul 16 21:33:39 but never mind, my post got approved, it had contained an important fix Jul 16 21:33:51 why can i not sshfs mount it as a drive? Jul 16 21:33:55 socketbind: the files one Jul 16 21:33:55 ? Jul 16 21:34:03 yes Jul 16 21:34:19 jcrawford: does sshfs use sftp? Jul 16 21:34:23 thanks for the fast approval if it was you : ] Jul 16 21:34:25 jcrawford: or just scp Jul 16 21:34:33 yea u need sp3 for it to work Jul 16 21:34:33 i believe it is sftp Jul 16 21:35:04 jcrawford: dropbear doesnt' support sftp by itself, you need the sftp-server component from something like openssh Jul 16 21:35:14 socketbind: there are no palm officials in this channel Jul 16 21:35:18 i have openssh installed Jul 16 21:35:35 jcrawford: ah. then I would think it should work Jul 16 21:35:44 but i did not install anything other than openssh Jul 16 21:35:46 never tried Jul 16 21:36:01 you mentioned a sftp-server bit =is that extra install? Jul 16 21:36:21 jcrawford: ipkg-opt install openssh-sftp-server Jul 16 21:36:53 ok installed Jul 16 21:37:00 sick Jul 16 21:37:01 thanks Jul 16 21:37:05 worked like a charm Jul 16 21:38:04 ah didn't realize it wasn't included in base openssh server in optware Jul 16 21:38:30 scp is included, not sftp Jul 16 21:38:42 grrr me and eclipse not getting alone Jul 16 21:39:15 so theoretically anyone could write a new service for the pre Jul 16 21:40:02 jcrawford: we already do Jul 16 21:40:07 nice Jul 16 21:40:13 what ya have brewing? Jul 16 21:40:46 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/org.webosinternals.services Jul 16 21:40:53 drnull: thanks for the info, somewher to start looking at least Jul 16 21:41:17 jcrawford: Sargun and PreGame created a shell command service Jul 16 21:41:30 anyone working on a terminal app Jul 16 21:41:37 so that I could ssh into my home server from the pre etc. Jul 16 21:41:45 my boss is really interested in that functionality Jul 16 21:41:50 jcrawford: you've read the wiki page on that already? Jul 16 21:42:07 rwhitby: i saw something about using ssh through the browser not sure if that is what you mean Jul 16 21:42:21 MoMail: also, luna-send -n 10 palm://com.palm.appinstaller/install '{"target":"/tmp/pkgl.ipk", "subscribed":true}' returns "FAILED_PACKAGEFILE_CORRUPT". This is the install method that findapps uses. Jul 16 21:44:15 CORRUPT! Jul 16 21:44:30 bpadalino|work: huh? Jul 16 21:44:31 aye Jul 16 21:44:37 oh Jul 16 21:47:30 does anyone know the stats for how many users upgrade when prompted? i guess it must be close to 100% right? Jul 16 21:47:51 i upgraded :) Jul 16 21:48:14 MoMail: Palm forces you to upgrade unless you hack the code. Jul 16 21:48:25 (or keep your battery under 30%) Jul 16 21:48:37 oh really i thought i got a prompt asking if i wanted it or not Jul 16 21:48:51 you do for a couple of times, then it's forced Jul 16 21:48:56 oh ok Jul 16 21:48:58 lol Jul 16 21:49:16 bpadalino|work: huh, I captured a valid .ipk file from the download process, and it installs just peachy using the appinstaller/install method. Sad. I guess we just don't know how to sign them properly? Jul 16 21:49:18 good to know, and they seem to be pretty quick to release patches Jul 16 21:50:05 wow ssh over EVDO is slow eh Jul 16 21:52:11 is there a way to make it so your pre does not go to sleep when there is an active ssh session? Jul 16 21:52:31 bye Jul 16 21:53:59 rwhitby: do you know if that is possible? Jul 16 21:54:52 jcrawford: I don't have a Pre Jul 16 21:54:59 :( Jul 16 21:55:17 in general is there a way to make a linux system not go to sleep if there is an active ssh connection heh :D Jul 16 21:56:40 a linux system, or a palm pre? :-p Jul 16 21:57:04 apt-get remove apmd ? Jul 16 21:57:19 (for a linux system, not a Pre) Jul 16 21:57:38 if your screen is on, everything woken up, you can turn off the power daemon by, "initctl stop powerd" Jul 16 21:57:51 but if you do that and your device is asleep, it won't turn back on Jul 16 22:02:19 jcrawford: you can play mp3 and then dim the screen with power button to same effect Jul 16 22:08:52 crap, I have to go and I can't keep playing with this installer stuff. Wait, I know. Jul 16 22:08:56 infobot: dual Jul 16 22:08:57 * infobot clones drnull, to the horror of everyone else on the channel Jul 16 22:09:04 So has anyone discovered what Apple did exactly to break iTunes syncing? Jul 16 22:09:17 hmm - the webos forums have a section entitled "Techniques and Tutorials" which says "A place for you to talk about your favorite hacks, programming techniques and to create tutorials and contribute to the common knowledgebase for those writing software for webOS." Jul 16 22:09:37 maybe we should contribute some hacks there ... Jul 16 22:16:45 http://www.salling.com/MediaSync/windows/ to continue syncing your pre Jul 16 22:23:16 rwhitby: I'd join the forum but I think you have to accept the EULA Jul 16 22:24:05 and test permitted or not I don't like the distribution clause and a couple other minor things Jul 16 22:37:07 infobot: 1.0.3 Jul 16 22:37:08 1 Jul 16 22:49:11 infobot: random Jul 16 22:49:14 * infobot spins the wheel of knowledge and ponders... zip 32784... Umatilla Lake FL Jul 16 22:51:12 anyone know where i can get an 1.0.3 install package or image? Jul 16 22:53:09 infobot: doctor Jul 16 22:53:10 hmm... doctor is Dr Who a renegade Time Lord who travels through time and space in this Tardis (cleverly disguised as a police box) fighting evil in all its forms and kicking some serious ass Jul 16 22:53:24 I really hate to change that one Jul 16 22:53:25 http://predev.wikidot.com/webos-doctor-versions Jul 16 22:53:34 yeah read that Jul 16 22:53:38 infobot: tardis Jul 16 22:53:39 hmm... tardis is Dr Who's time machine/spaceship, which, due to an accident looks like a UK police telephone box, TARDIS stands for "Time And Relative Dimensions In Space (Doctor Who TV series)" Jul 16 22:53:47 searching for the 1.0.3 jar file in google but no luck :( Jul 16 22:53:51 MoMail: you can't get 1.0.3 Jul 16 22:53:55 only 1.0.4 Jul 16 22:54:08 Infobot: xyzzy Jul 16 22:54:09 twice as much happens Jul 16 22:54:18 * Lurking_Grue laughs. Jul 16 22:54:58 * rwhitby updates http://ipkg.webos-internals.org/ with a no-compete notice. Jul 16 23:00:04 thanks destinal, i was hoping someone somewhere was secretly saving all these images and could help me out :( damn Jul 16 23:00:27 many people are saving the images for their own backup but we can't redistribute them Jul 16 23:00:36 copyright law Jul 16 23:00:39 sure i understand that of course Jul 16 23:00:53 it even says it clearly on the web page Jul 16 23:00:54 but save your 1.0.4 for when 1.0.5 comes out :) Jul 16 23:00:58 yeah Jul 16 23:01:01 exqactly ;) Jul 16 23:01:03 MoMail: why do you want that particular version? Jul 16 23:01:07 if only i had known earlier Jul 16 23:01:17 we haven't been locked out of anything yet Jul 16 23:02:19 i want to investigate one aspect in particular, the install via email link vulnerability, i want to know what exact changes palm made to the code to fix that issue Jul 16 23:03:16 well some of it could have been binary changes Jul 16 23:03:20 MoMail: ask tharris- Jul 16 23:03:44 he's our palm security vulnerability expert :-) Jul 16 23:03:51 :D Jul 16 23:04:48 ok will do thanks, i pressume he's the same guy who was credited with helping palm with 1.0.4 : http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/50607_en.html Jul 16 23:04:58 yep Jul 16 23:05:14 infobot: action me Jul 16 23:05:15 bonks destinal over the head Jul 16 23:05:33 infobot: botsnack Jul 16 23:05:33 thanks, rwhitby Jul 16 23:12:43 rwhitby: de: can infobot remeber things per channel? Jul 16 23:13:13 infobot: infobot Jul 16 23:13:14 from memory, infobot is a hack!, or known to have only said one useful thing. a tool, or dating the fembots, or [TK]D-Fender's b*tch, or suck, or a pain in the ass Jul 16 23:19:18 infobot: why? Jul 16 23:19:58 infobot: uc because Jul 16 23:19:59 BECAUSE Jul 16 23:20:35 Cute. Jul 16 23:22:13 plugins are a work in progress. More information is available on the wiki at http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins Jul 16 23:22:20 infobot: plugins Jul 16 23:23:00 infobot: hello Jul 16 23:23:01 Howdy Bub Jul 16 23:23:14 infobot: plugins Jul 16 23:23:27 infobot: pulgins Jul 16 23:23:33 typo check Jul 16 23:23:34 :) Jul 16 23:23:37 lol Jul 16 23:23:43 I guess it doesn't like me Jul 16 23:24:35 destinal: you probably have to address it Jul 16 23:24:59 infobot: plugins are a work in progress. More information is available on the wiki at http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins Jul 16 23:25:01 okay, rwhitby Jul 16 23:25:04 ~plugins Jul 16 23:25:05 plugins are a work in progress. More information is available on the wiki at http://predev.wikidot.com/browser-plugins Jul 16 23:25:08 ah, cool Jul 16 23:25:20 I thought it could pick things up in context of normal conversation though Jul 16 23:25:31 or is that turned off Jul 16 23:25:53 I hate bots that speak before they are spoken to. Jul 16 23:26:57 like that the cool thing was that it could just listen and regurgitate something useful later even though we were talking to each other when it learned it Jul 16 23:27:11 if we have to teach it things by hand, that's not a big deal though Jul 16 23:28:01 just not quite as useful Jul 16 23:29:02 ideally learning should be everything spoken and retrieval only when adressed Jul 16 23:29:10 this lack of PContext.h sucks! Jul 16 23:29:25 PuffTheMagic: no kidding. Jul 16 23:29:58 alrighty. time to try this compile Jul 16 23:31:12 infobot: who is zaphod? Jul 16 23:31:12 hmm... zaphod is just this guy, you know? Jul 16 23:31:59 * destinal is irresistibly drawn to shiny toys -- sorry for the noise. Jul 16 23:40:50 is anyone still on 1.0.3? Jul 16 23:40:54 by any chance? Jul 16 23:41:53 haven't we passed the point in time where it gets forced to people that haven't updated yet, or no? Jul 16 23:42:10 1.0.4 I mean Jul 16 23:42:59 it's easy to reflash 1.0.3 if you have it Jul 16 23:48:03 no I just want someone to run a grep for me if they are stll running 1.0.3 Jul 16 23:48:22 i am running 1.0.3 Jul 16 23:48:45 awesome, can you do a grep NO_HZ on /boot/config* for me and post the output? Jul 16 23:48:55 standby Jul 16 23:50:20 CONFIG_NO_HZ=y Jul 16 23:50:52 that's it. is that what you were looking for? Jul 16 23:51:17 okay thanks. Jul 16 23:51:19 yes. Jul 16 23:51:31 so tickless has been enabled for a while Jul 16 23:52:48 not sure why Palm decided not to enable CONFIG_PREEMPT Jul 16 23:53:53 wow huge power savings in tickless apparently. I had no idea. Jul 16 23:54:04 it might be easier/more worth it to port sirloin stuff to latest beagle/linux-omap kernel Jul 16 23:54:17 tickless? Jul 16 23:54:20 so no lime disease? Jul 16 23:54:31 lol Jul 16 23:55:08 other than lcd init and the i2c devices there doesn't seem to be much that's pre specific Jul 16 23:55:24 most of the patch is omap stuff that wasn't in 2.6.24 Jul 16 23:55:43 tmzt: which is now mainline? Jul 16 23:56:15 infobot: kernel Jul 16 23:56:17 Linux kernel versions, stable: 2.6.30.1, prepatch: 2.6.31-rc3, snapshot: 2.6.31-rc3-git2, 2.4: 2.4.37.2, 2.2: 2.2.26, prepatch: 2.2.27-rc2, -mm patch: 2.6.28-rc2-mm1 Jul 16 23:56:27 linux-omap tree has omap3 support Jul 16 23:56:40 well, each of those in a way Jul 16 23:56:50 the closer you get to tip the better Jul 16 23:57:08 as staying current is easier from their Jul 16 23:57:37 yeah so has anyone tried cutting down the patches and building 2.6.30 / 31 Jul 16 23:57:44 relying on its OMAP support Jul 16 23:58:19 >B Jul 16 23:58:20 if we can come up with a cleanly applying patch to a later linux kernel it'll make things simpler to manage Jul 16 23:58:28 those r suposta be scissors Jul 16 23:58:38 infobot: scissors Jul 16 23:58:39 rock, I win. Jul 16 23:58:41 I wouldn't mess with the patch, just take the board and the i2c chip drivers Jul 16 23:58:53 add them to Makefiles/Kconfig Jul 16 23:59:12 doesn't seem fair Jul 16 23:59:13 oh they're whole source files Jul 16 23:59:25 yeah Jul 16 23:59:35 playing rock paper scissors in a request response fasion Jul 16 23:59:45 raeb: yeahl ol Jul 17 00:01:12 infobot: paper Jul 17 00:01:13 scissors, I win. Jul 17 00:01:17 dammit! Jul 17 00:01:19 oh, and the lcdc stuff needs integrated, not sure what linux-omap looks like Jul 17 00:01:28 infobot: machinegun Jul 17 00:01:41 pan support Jul 17 00:01:43 infobot: rock Jul 17 00:01:43 [rock] an addon framework for World of Warcraft written by ckknight. More information is available at http://wowace.com/wiki/Rock. It is also an object best not thrown in glass houses. what we're all about, it's what we live for, c'mon and shout it out Jul 17 00:02:17 lame, you only have 2/3 options Jul 17 00:02:21 okay I've been looking around the kernel configs Jul 17 00:02:23 * sugardave thinks infobot may make some people sorry they added it here. Jul 17 00:02:24 again Jul 17 00:02:26 doesn't seem fair Jul 17 00:02:28 tickless is compiled and enabled Jul 17 00:02:38 infobot: paper Jul 17 00:02:39 paper, play again. Jul 17 00:02:41 hires timers are compiled and enabled. Jul 17 00:02:42 infobot: paper Jul 17 00:02:50 sugardave: it happens every time it joins a new channel. it passes. Jul 17 00:02:54 so that's good. no PREEMPT but then again the apps need to be aware. Jul 17 00:03:16 infobot: paper Jul 17 00:03:17 scissors, I win. Jul 17 00:03:17 unfortunately we have PreGame who hasn't learnt about /msg infobot yet ... ;-) Jul 17 00:03:18 rwhitby: we can use apt, etc instead Jul 17 00:03:19 problem with getting a later version of the kernel to compile is there appear to be some binary only kernel modules. Jul 17 00:03:23 your a cheater Jul 17 00:03:35 infobot: Do you prefer the iPhone or Pre? Jul 17 00:03:36 yes, I prefer the iPhone or Pre. Jul 17 00:03:41 ? Jul 17 00:03:55 ju: what modules? Jul 17 00:03:59 infobot: Do you prefer the iPhone or the Pre? Jul 17 00:04:00 yes, I prefer the iPhone or the Pre. Jul 17 00:04:10 jauderho: what modules? Jul 17 00:04:15 rofl Jul 17 00:04:18 infobot: Do you prefer the iPhone or do you prefer the Pre? Jul 17 00:04:19 yes, I prefer the iPhone or do you prefer the Pre. Jul 17 00:04:23 wtf Jul 17 00:04:26 mvl wireless is supposed to be gpl Jul 17 00:04:28 rwhitby: I didn't know that either, but thanks to you, I do now :D Jul 17 00:04:28 i've upgraded my skills to drawing rounded rectangles Jul 17 00:04:29 :D Jul 17 00:04:32 look inside /lib/modules Jul 17 00:04:39 PuffTheMagic: you mean a circle? Jul 17 00:04:42 no Jul 17 00:04:47 yay for puff Jul 17 00:04:49 a rounded edge rectangle Jul 17 00:04:52 jauderho: I don't have a pre/jar Jul 17 00:04:54 single radius Jul 17 00:04:55 PuffTheMagic: awesome. pastebin your .cpp file Jul 17 00:04:56 or x & y radiuses Jul 17 00:04:57 ? Jul 17 00:04:57 so an oval Jul 17 00:04:59 PuffTheMagic: on what? Jul 17 00:05:04 do you have a rooted pre? Jul 17 00:05:16 i didnt do anything special Jul 17 00:05:16 PGContextIface *iface = (PGContextIface *) drawEvent->graphicsContext ; Jul 17 00:05:16 iface->drawRoundRect(30,30,60,60,5,5); Jul 17 00:05:17 me? Jul 17 00:05:18 sooo i'm still bound by my NDA aren't i Jul 17 00:05:21 ah Jul 17 00:05:21 yes Jul 17 00:05:23 just that? cool Jul 17 00:05:24 no pre at all Jul 17 00:05:35 I thought I tried that but maybe not Jul 17 00:05:47 this is what is currently on the pre Jul 17 00:05:48 http://webos.pastebin.com/d34225ad7 Jul 17 00:05:55 raeb: just download the public SDK, and refer to that ... Jul 17 00:06:06 hey guys is there a way to keep my palm pre from sleeping when there is an active ssh connection? Jul 17 00:06:15 PuffTheMagic: really wish we had those other headers Jul 17 00:06:26 destinal: i am using the non-hacked headers right now Jul 17 00:06:37 i made a PContext.h in /usr/include Jul 17 00:06:39 PuffTheMagic: how'd you get there? Jul 17 00:06:45 and i just added a few fake typedefs Jul 17 00:06:47 ah Jul 17 00:06:50 to shut shit up Jul 17 00:06:52 rofl Jul 17 00:07:03 so you'd crash trying to actually call those funcs Jul 17 00:07:14 or get a compiler error or something Jul 17 00:07:20 right Jul 17 00:07:35 mind pastebining your .h to save us from figuring it out? Jul 17 00:07:36 jcrawford: initctl stop powerd Jul 17 00:07:54 but don't forget to turn it back on when you're done Jul 17 00:08:03 these are the modules that are compiled when I did a build Jul 17 00:08:03 http://webos.pastebin.com/d3ff17654 Jul 17 00:08:07 im pretty good at crashing this thing though Jul 17 00:08:08 :D Jul 17 00:08:26 heh Jul 17 00:08:27 good Jul 17 00:08:33 cuz both d & i Jul 17 00:08:39 sux at c/c++ Jul 17 00:08:57 I've drawn characters but they're just huge blank squares Jul 17 00:09:01 I think you need to load a font Jul 17 00:09:01 YES! 2 rounded rectangles! Jul 17 00:09:05 rofl Jul 17 00:09:26 ah ah ah Jul 17 00:09:33 PuffTheMagic: so do they move along with the screen when you scroll the screen? Jul 17 00:09:41 do they bounce against the edges Jul 17 00:09:47 right that Jul 17 00:09:50 the lines i made go faster than the scroll Jul 17 00:09:54 they just sit in one spot afaict Jul 17 00:09:59 hmmmm! Jul 17 00:10:05 even if you finger them? Jul 17 00:10:14 cuz i could get my plugin to bounce Jul 17 00:10:25 they stay where they should in relation to the card Jul 17 00:10:28 (what were we talking about?) Jul 17 00:10:33 PuffTheMagic: excellent Jul 17 00:10:33 (fingering plugins?) Jul 17 00:10:41 thats very good in fact Jul 17 00:10:43 can you put Jul 17 00:10:43 sugardave: well is there a way of writing an app that would do that? Jul 17 00:10:47 some HTML on your mojo Jul 17 00:10:57 when an ssh connection is initiated and closed? Jul 17 00:11:17 and see if it scrolls and the plugin stays still Jul 17 00:11:19 jcrawford: possibly...but I haven't looked into executing command lines from Mojo Jul 17 00:11:36 raeb: if he were to do that he'd have to change the embed size and respect it Jul 17 00:11:36 i am not messing with any mojo yet Jul 17 00:11:36 just c++ Jul 17 00:11:39 sugardave: i think maybe that will be my first application heh, headless app :) Jul 17 00:11:45 okay so looks like 3 binary only modules Jul 17 00:11:51 right now in helloplugin we're embedding over the whole card Jul 17 00:11:55 i assume you're loading the plugin thru an obj / embed element in a mojo app.... Jul 17 00:11:55 jcrawford: but I don't see why you need one...if you're ssh'd in, just run the command Jul 17 00:12:01 SPAM Jul 17 00:12:01 hooray for netsplits Jul 17 00:12:08 sugardave: yea and i forget all the time :) Jul 17 00:12:10 deeeaaaathhhhh Jul 17 00:12:14 would rather it be automated Jul 17 00:12:24 raeb: what do u mean scroll? Jul 17 00:12:36 this plugin takes up the whole card Jul 17 00:12:39 sugardave: can you post the command once more that split pushed it out of my view :) Jul 17 00:12:41 destinal Jul 17 00:12:42 why do u have to change the embed size Jul 17 00:12:46 jcrawford: cool, go for it :D Jul 17 00:12:50 because it's an object Jul 17 00:12:57 no requirement to, can't plugin be further down on the page but still full size Jul 17 00:13:16 uh, what? Jul 17 00:13:23 object is still an html element Jul 17 00:13:25 the plugin owns all its space Jul 17 00:13:25 on an html page Jul 17 00:13:35 I guess html would wrap around it Jul 17 00:13:38 exactly Jul 17 00:13:41 what does that look like Jul 17 00:13:41 if it wasn't 320x480 Jul 17 00:13:43 can you scroll that Jul 17 00:13:46 jcrawford: I THINK it's 'initctl stop powerd' or it might be 'initctl powerd stop' Jul 17 00:13:48 ah Jul 17 00:13:52 maybe Jul 17 00:14:04 yeah that makes sense Jul 17 00:14:16 raeb: you can just add html to the scene Jul 17 00:14:28 yes yes Jul 17 00:14:33 but how does that behave Jul 17 00:14:35 with scrolling Jul 17 00:14:38 well, try it! :) Jul 17 00:14:42 does the text scroll without plugin, with plugin Jul 17 00:14:44 yeah yeah Jul 17 00:14:46 sec Jul 17 00:14:56 lol Jul 17 00:15:07 PuffTheMagic: can you pastebin your junk .h ? Jul 17 00:15:10 stop powerd should work too Jul 17 00:15:26 save us the time of making junk? Jul 17 00:15:26 works for other services Jul 17 00:15:35 http://dpaste.com/68078/ Jul 17 00:15:37 junk? Jul 17 00:15:48 ah, that's easier than I thought it would be Jul 17 00:15:50 :) Jul 17 00:15:54 besides that I added a -I to the cflags section Jul 17 00:16:11 which points to: -I/home/rmh3093/webcore/WebCore/platform Jul 17 00:16:25 and i use Jul 17 00:16:25 #include "graphics/pg/PGContextIface.h" Jul 17 00:16:25 #include "graphics/pg/PGShared.h" Jul 17 00:16:28 in the header Jul 17 00:17:17 sure would be nice to figure out this PColor32 thing Jul 17 00:17:36 and the type for "center" Jul 17 00:17:42 im sure its some 2dpoint like type Jul 17 00:17:42 ok we can copy those back in and the fake Pcontext.h Jul 17 00:18:12 i will be back in a few Jul 17 00:24:15 rwhitby: I haven't been following the IRC for a week or maybe longer. I added a post helping to educate some potential app developers on PreCentral,net about revision control system and what they might need to learn to play in the #webos-internals sandbox. Can you please review my post at http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1756660 to make sure I'm not leading anyone astray in... Jul 17 00:24:17 ...what I said? -- thx Jul 17 00:25:41 if people dont know git already they should be embarrased :D Jul 17 00:25:46 bclancy: looks fine to me Jul 17 00:25:58 wow words Jul 17 00:26:05 eyes blurring Jul 17 00:26:27 PuffTheMagic: there will be lots of app developers who have come from other mobile platforms who will not even know 'ls', let alone 'git' .... Jul 17 00:26:39 poff the magic dragon Jul 17 00:26:41 puff Jul 17 00:27:40 rwhitby: I wasn't sure if you all were still using the gitorius server or if you moved to a repository somewhere else. I mentioned that you would probably post the URL to the GIT server to where checkins should be made. Jul 17 00:28:27 I don't think we want checkins untill people have at least visited here Jul 17 00:28:42 maybe with the build system that will change Jul 17 00:29:21 agree; We can delay posting the URL at the moment - they need to get more up to speed in their own sandboxes anyway. Jul 17 00:29:54 tmzt: they need to come here to request commit access anyway. posting the URL is not a problem. Jul 17 00:30:06 I also need to "catch up" on what's been happening here (as well as my own continued learning about building and packaging apps) Jul 17 00:31:47 hmm ipkg updated sudo Jul 17 00:31:47 I advocated that they learn GIT if they are new to revision control systems. If they have an SVN fileset, you all will be able to review their code to see if they know what they are doing. (I'm sure that will happen anyway.) Jul 17 00:32:27 back to lurking for me (for the moment, anyway) Jul 17 00:32:36 evening all Jul 17 00:37:29 thanks everyone for your help today, ttyl Jul 17 00:38:42 heyo sush Jul 17 00:41:42 Any reason why I would want to try to prevent an upgrade from 1.0.3 to 1.0.4? Jul 17 00:42:45 tilted: nope Jul 17 00:56:48 hello Jul 17 01:00:25 kback Jul 17 01:22:45 infobot: party Jul 17 01:22:46 Woohoo! Bot on the loose! Jul 17 01:31:11 whats the best ringtone sound? Jul 17 01:32:03 Simon and Garfunkel know the answer Jul 17 01:32:34 no. Jul 17 01:32:41 * sugardave nods. "Yes. Jul 17 01:36:20 Canadian Brass - Saints Jul 17 01:37:05 which I alternate with a LOUD mp3 of a Western Electric 550 ringer, when I'm outdoors around lots of people. Jul 17 01:37:46 why dont you just use the vibrate if youre around a lot of people? Jul 17 01:38:57 fwiw, if someone wants to know how to push to multiple repos using git Jul 17 01:38:58 http://tumblelog.jauderho.com/post/142216027/pushing-to-multiple-repos-using-git Jul 17 01:39:49 bzhou * r10462 optware/trunk/make/e2fsprogs.mk: e2fsprogs: 1.41.4 -> 1.41.8 Jul 17 01:59:28 evening ladies and gents Jul 17 02:00:38 JackieRipper: hey, I think we're ready to roll out the bootstrap script, but it installs 63.3MB of stuff. Can we split out the git and quilt bits into a separate script? Jul 17 02:00:49 sure Jul 17 02:01:06 Someone noticed a bug last night... a missing mkdir Jul 17 02:01:21 I added it in, and added credit in the changelog Jul 17 02:02:17 how about I make the git/quilt installs optional? "Would you like to install git and quilt to enable patching from the webos-internals modifications repository?" Jul 17 02:02:59 since the script can be run multiple times, the user can always run it again and say yes, if they change their minds Jul 17 02:03:05 Or I can separate it out Jul 17 02:03:29 I'll separate it out Jul 17 02:03:33 simple enough Jul 17 02:03:41 JackieRipper: I haven't been following the IRC lately, but if there is a chunk of shell script work (like splitting things out) that you want to farm out to me while you do other stuff, I'm game to help. Jul 17 02:04:24 it's really going to be removing a 30-50 line block Jul 17 02:04:27 no biggie Jul 17 02:04:35 k Jul 17 02:07:44 can someone make me an icon? Jul 17 02:13:25 for what PreGame? Jul 17 02:15:29 bclancy: I wouldn't mind another set of eyes, though... http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/optware-bootstrap.sh Jul 17 02:16:04 rwhitby: the changes you requested have been implemented Jul 17 02:16:06 my app Jul 17 02:16:16 JackieRipper: OK, looking at it will be a great way for me to catch back up - will do that now Jul 17 02:16:37 PreGame that wasn't very helpful. What do you need an icon to represent? Jul 17 02:17:02 i'm thinking maybe a pre with a lightning bolt? Jul 17 02:18:28 for what sort of app? Jul 17 02:19:11 Apple should have my sawed up ipod touches in a few days Jul 17 02:19:50 saved up? Jul 17 02:20:36 Cut all 3 of them up at work and sent them back to apple Jul 17 02:21:13 why? Jul 17 02:21:25 are they armv7 yet? Jul 17 02:21:29 May be a drop in the bucket to them but I am no longer an apple customer Jul 17 02:21:42 its an app installer for the pre without having to have devmode enabled Jul 17 02:21:48 The itunes crap Jul 17 02:22:28 They wont let us sync the 3 ipods and the pre they get no business from me :| Jul 17 02:22:48 an ipod that cant sync with itunes? Jul 17 02:22:59 Ipod can but my pre cant Jul 17 02:23:39 * rwhitby wishes he had spare cash to throw away ipod touches on ideological grounds ... Jul 17 02:24:26 uh Jul 17 02:24:28 ebay Jul 17 02:24:30 why didn't you just replace iTunes with an application with an open protocol? Jul 17 02:24:37 rwhitby: is it ok that I put the bootstrap script in the root of the bootstrap repo like that? Jul 17 02:24:45 JackieRipper: best place for it Jul 17 02:24:52 I am with my pre Jul 17 02:24:54 alrighty Jul 17 02:25:08 Not sure what the others wanna do.. think they all want to get pres also Jul 17 02:25:15 * Rick__ with my plan to retire and play with computers someday Jul 17 02:25:45 others? Jul 17 02:26:15 Wife and kids... they were all on board with it... son came to work and cut his in half himself lol Jul 17 02:26:38 pre is not a landscape web terminal Jul 17 02:26:49 iPod Touch is/can be Jul 17 02:26:58 * rwhitby thinks of the poor starving children in Africa who don't have ipod touches .... Jul 17 02:27:11 different hardware form factors for different uses Jul 17 02:27:16 Speaking of... Has there been work on a terminal app for the pre? Jul 17 02:27:28 with mesh they could be great toys/tools Jul 17 02:27:57 tmzt: cheaper than an OLPC ;-) Jul 17 02:29:01 you could of traded those 3 ipods for 3 african babies named OJ. Jul 17 02:29:31 yes lots of work Jul 17 02:29:33 Yes but then someone else would have used them ipods on itunes and made money for apple :P Jul 17 02:29:46 it turns out Stik to be "hard: Jul 17 02:29:54 Apple makes very little money from Itunes Jul 17 02:30:12 The terminal app = hard? Jul 17 02:30:41 no, it needs somebody to port a terminal to the plugin code we have Jul 17 02:30:55 any of you guys seen Bruno? Jul 17 02:31:14 yes Jul 17 02:31:16 hated it Jul 17 02:31:30 What is it? Jul 17 02:31:34 THe movie? Jul 17 02:31:35 a movie Jul 17 02:31:36 yeah Jul 17 02:31:38 Javascript runs in a sandbox. Jul 17 02:31:51 to write an ap that talks to ports OTHER Than through http Jul 17 02:31:55 THat the one that was banned in russia or some crazy place Jul 17 02:31:57 * rwhitby points to #webos-watercooler for movie reviews ... Jul 17 02:32:00 you have to use a plugin. They've written plugins. Jul 17 02:32:19 but they are still trying to get a graphics library to talk to the plugin AND talk to a terminal app and talk to mojo Jul 17 02:32:23 it's "hard." Jul 17 02:32:31 this channel is barely active right now, i doubt a little chit chat would hurt Jul 17 02:32:34 hello Jul 17 02:32:36 Sounds like it... Jul 17 02:32:40 PreGame: people read the logs Jul 17 02:32:43 w2ho is they? other than destinal Jul 17 02:33:00 raeb and PuffTheMagic Jul 17 02:33:08 yeah? Jul 17 02:33:15 are helping with plugins, yeah? Jul 17 02:33:16 :) Jul 17 02:33:23 oh yeah? Jul 17 02:33:25 forget the library then, take something simple Jul 17 02:33:36 support pty and forking shell Jul 17 02:33:39 PuffTheMagic: you don't have to if you don't want to lol Jul 17 02:33:40 naa we need the rest of these damn headers Jul 17 02:33:44 no i want to Jul 17 02:33:47 I haven't checked the wiki in awhile I will take a look Jul 17 02:33:47 it needs to happen Jul 17 02:34:02 yeah the headers thing is in progress Jul 17 02:34:06 we have pixmap, we shouldn't need anything else Jul 17 02:34:22 or, destinal, what do you say?i Jul 17 02:34:45 tmzt: yeah I think we can do it all with pixmap but there are some nice features we could use in Piranha Jul 17 02:35:01 to make it easier Jul 17 02:35:18 destinal: i need a name of a font Jul 17 02:35:21 the other thing we're working on is getting scriptable plugins, which will be needed Jul 17 02:35:24 that might exist on the pre Jul 17 02:35:45 PuffTheMagic: look in /usr/share/fonts Jul 17 02:35:45 do the headers have a fast blit Jul 17 02:35:53 or font drawing? Jul 17 02:35:55 tmzt: yes Jul 17 02:36:00 to both Jul 17 02:36:27 we will need scriptable plugins, but not for basic events, right? Jul 17 02:36:29 there are functions in libPiranha to do those things that we could use if we could figure out the headers Jul 17 02:36:43 whether we get the originals or reverse them Jul 17 02:36:47 there are only a few missing parts it seems Jul 17 02:36:53 destinal: can you tell me who to use egit in eclipse over in #webos ? Jul 17 02:36:53 PColor32 Jul 17 02:36:59 and PVector2D Jul 17 02:37:05 if had those I would be golden Jul 17 02:37:13 guess :) Jul 17 02:37:19 rwhitby: u dont need egit Jul 17 02:37:24 learn real git Jul 17 02:37:26 color is almost certainly argb or grba Jul 17 02:37:32 rgba Jul 17 02:37:34 thats not the point Jul 17 02:37:35 PuffTheMagic: I know real git already Jul 17 02:37:44 we need a header to shut up the compiler Jul 17 02:37:57 why is that? Jul 17 02:38:04 what is it saying? Jul 17 02:38:35 it says PColor32 undefined Jul 17 02:38:38 or something like that Jul 17 02:40:04 tmzt: you're welcome to clone the git repo and try your hand at fixing it Jul 17 02:40:10 that doesn't take a pre :) Jul 17 02:43:49 JackieRipper: first thing I noticed so far: in get_version function, you test numeric exit status as a string. It would be more clear to rewrite such parts that are clearly numbers to use numeric comparisons (example to follow once I type one) Jul 17 02:47:23 bclancy: in javascript? or shell? Jul 17 02:47:39 JackieRipper: Here's an example with the lines changed: Jul 17 02:47:41 RETURN=$? Jul 17 02:47:42 if [ $RETURN -eq 0 ] ; then Jul 17 02:47:44 count=$(ipkg-opt info $x | grep Status: | wc -l) Jul 17 02:47:46 fi Jul 17 02:47:48 if [ $RETURN -eq 1 ] || [ "$y" -gt 1 ] ; then Jul 17 02:47:54 tmzt: in shellk Jul 17 02:48:09 damn emoticons Jul 17 02:48:11 heh Jul 17 02:50:40 you just changed the = to -eq in the if [$RETURN lines, correct? Jul 17 02:50:42 now I'm curious to see if I can hack the catalog client on the emu to work Jul 17 02:50:53 must.. stay.. with... plugins.. focus :) Jul 17 02:51:34 destinal: heh - I guess I need to install CDT in this new eclipse installation to compile the plugin :-) Jul 17 02:52:00 or not use eclipse? Jul 17 02:52:09 rwhitby: yup Jul 17 02:52:35 it's got one click install to an emulator too if you have a pubkey on your emu Jul 17 02:52:52 tmzt: I need to use the method that Joe End-User will use if we ask them to install the SDK to load homebrew apps ... Jul 17 02:53:00 install: is just an scp -P 5522 root@ . .. Jul 17 02:53:22 rwhitby: we won't need to for long Jul 17 02:53:30 destinal: we need a webos-internals plugin for eclipse :-) Jul 17 02:53:41 yay for one click Jul 17 02:53:41 eclipse for end users is the wrong thing Jul 17 02:53:42 JackieRipper: yes, plus removing the quotes from around the "$?" exit status before assigning it. Jul 17 02:53:56 don't we have a gui app going? Jul 17 02:54:06 oh but webos doctor :( Jul 17 02:54:08 we need standalone Jul 17 02:54:55 JackieRipper: I typically use a variable named $status where you are using $RETURN, but that's my style and not yours. Your's is fine of course? Jul 17 02:55:00 rwhitby: the method we need to use is this. we have a gui bootstrap that copies our mojo+service based installer Jul 17 02:55:14 then they go to the phone and install whatever like they would with cydia on iphone Jul 17 02:55:23 destinal: yep. Jul 17 02:55:54 the only question is whether we should use a bootie method or konami code for the bootstrap Jul 17 02:56:01 destinal: but to work out the file formats and interoperable protocols, I need to use what Palm supports for the Joe Random Developer who doesn't use the command line Jul 17 02:56:17 oh right Jul 17 02:56:17 bclancy: is there a reason not to quote $? Jul 17 02:56:21 JackieRipper: Next I want to see what the $y is about here. Probably just a global variable dependency between functions. I do that a lot too when needed. Shell is not always beautiful. :-) Jul 17 02:56:21 yeah palm-install etc Jul 17 02:56:38 destinal: since that will be the only API we can be sure they will keep stable. Jul 17 02:57:19 well yeah I mean we get novacom's ipkg install working, that'll keep working Jul 17 02:57:27 bclancy: that is an unnecessary remnant of a previous revision Jul 17 02:57:33 it can be removed Jul 17 02:57:41 we should never depend on stuff which would be easy for Palm to change. We need to use the same methods that the standard dev tools use to do stuff, only more convenient for end users. Jul 17 02:57:57 when it's quoted, it's a string. It probably will work being quoted but it just looks confusing. A variable assigned to another does not need to be quoted. It just makes me ask: Was there a reason he did that? Jul 17 02:58:00 avutually... it needs to be changed to "$count" Jul 17 02:58:22 rwhitby: are we in agreement that the novacom usb protocols aren't likely to change? Jul 17 02:58:37 wow... that function is wrong.... completely wrong Jul 17 02:58:43 if they do it should be simple to keep up Jul 17 02:59:33 JackieRipper: you mean $y needs to be changed to $count. (I guess that's why it looked brain-deadto me! :-) Jul 17 02:59:33 bclancy: count=$(ipkg-opt info "$PKG" | grep Status: | wc -l) Jul 17 02:59:55 bclancy: if [ "$RETURN" = 1 ] || [ "$count" -gt 1 ] ; then **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 17 02:59:56 2009