**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 21 02:59:57 2009 Jul 21 03:00:03 HebrewzHammer: probably a easy hack Jul 21 03:00:16 if there is no option already Jul 21 03:00:20 i assumes so but i couldn't find a way to do it Jul 21 03:00:51 HebrewzHammer: we're running mediawiki 1.11 on ubuntu 8.04 LTS. whatever it can do without modification is available. Jul 21 03:01:04 (well without modifications that can't be done in LocalSettings.php that is) Jul 21 03:01:23 PuffTheMagic: are you ssh'ing in to root directly? Jul 21 03:01:31 yeah Jul 21 03:01:45 nm i got it Jul 21 03:01:50 i had to add it to /etc/shells Jul 21 03:04:18 rwhitby: what now? Jul 21 03:04:23 un/reinstall? Jul 21 03:04:31 gordian: yep Jul 21 03:04:35 grrr Jul 21 03:04:48 gordian: I did warn you ... Jul 21 03:04:49 aright we're gonna have to pick this up tomorrow Jul 21 03:04:54 i know Jul 21 03:04:59 i just gotta get some rest Jul 21 03:05:01 i'm beat as it is Jul 21 03:05:31 gordian: ok, ping someone here on how to add a virtual disk to virtualbox (or use the virtualbox doco) and then format it as ext3 for /dev/hdb1. Jul 21 03:05:43 then the script will pick it up and use it Jul 21 03:06:08 do i need to run both scripts? Jul 21 03:06:23 (after i've reinstalled) Jul 21 03:08:52 mmmmmmm Jul 21 03:09:04 * PuffTheMagic now has colorful bash terminal Jul 21 03:09:12 now me feels at home Jul 21 03:10:13 no kidding! i missed out over the weekend Jul 21 03:10:17 link me Jul 21 03:10:18 gordian: yep, you'll have plenty of space then Jul 21 03:10:28 right on Jul 21 03:10:32 well thanks for the help tonight Jul 21 03:10:37 ttyl Jul 21 03:10:53 no probs - you gave good feedback on the space requirements Jul 21 03:11:43 I just noticed that the email program also writes to /var, but it does not seem to have an easy way to archive messages. I know we write to /var/opt, but I think Palm has a problem by not managing what email and possibly some logs write to /var. I've written up a "bug report" for your reading at http://webos.pastebin.com/m7f962ed8 which I'd like to discuss here Jul 21 03:13:22 I read that 75% seems to be the cutoff (when you see the "Sorry, Not Enough Memory" message. Jul 21 03:13:25 Hey all.. what sftp client do you all recommend for a new guy? I simply want the ability to transfer files w/o switching to usb drive... Jul 21 03:13:34 bclancy84: looks perfect to me Jul 21 03:14:02 bclancy84: what I like about your bug report is the reproduction steps that only require Palm approved methods to access and debug the problem Jul 21 03:14:15 rwhitby: I did not mention that homebrew installs exacerbate (sp?) the problem. Jul 21 03:14:17 MLJones8: which host platform? Jul 21 03:14:26 bclancy84: correctly so Jul 21 03:14:54 LMAO, anyone check out the app request for a fingerprint scanner for the Pre?!?! --> http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193761-app-reqest-pre-fingerprint-scanner.html Jul 21 03:15:13 rwhitby: I don't want to alarm people over in PreCental.net. Is there someone you can forward this to? Jul 21 03:15:34 bclancy84: what's alarming about your bug report? Jul 21 03:16:32 rwhtby: windows xp Jul 21 03:16:33 I'd just post it in both the webOS dev forum (they have a bug report section) and on the Pre forum on PreCentral. Jul 21 03:16:41 MLJones8: WinSCP Jul 21 03:16:53 rwhitby: If users realize that they can't keep both all of their email history as well as apps, they might bail from the Pre as a platform. That could hurt Palm. Jul 21 03:17:30 bclancy84: I think people will just see it as a bug that Palm will fix. You can't get around the memory limitations of 8MB. Jul 21 03:17:42 s/8MB/8GB/ Jul 21 03:17:42 rwhitby meant: bclancy84: I think people will just see it as a bug that Palm will fix. You can't get around the memory limitations of 8GB. Jul 21 03:17:48 rwhitby: You may be right. Jul 21 03:19:03 If anyone here knows how to file a bug report (and be sure it gets entered into Palms bug database), can you please let me know. Jul 21 03:19:23 bclancy84: bug reports forum in webOS dev forums on palm.com Jul 21 03:19:27 I most certainly missing something but who keeps 8gb of email? Jul 21 03:19:40 my gmail is about 8GB right now Jul 21 03:19:44 MLJones8: I do. Jul 21 03:19:56 rwhitby keeps a lot of mail Jul 21 03:20:00 it's not just email - there are also other things that write to /var Jul 21 03:20:06 (on my archive IMAP server, not my home account or work account IMAP servers) Jul 21 03:21:11 can someone with root access on their pre send me their /etc/profile Jul 21 03:21:14 I have every email I've sent or received since about 2002, and lots from 1990 onwards. Jul 21 03:21:43 but I don't trust them to google to store for me. Jul 21 03:21:53 bpadalino: i have LKML for about 2 years and i still have gigs free on gmail Jul 21 03:21:58 wtf do you have in your inbox Jul 21 03:22:00 movies? Jul 21 03:22:35 oh, we're talking gigabytes ? Jul 21 03:23:00 i was slightly exaggerating my email usage :( Jul 21 03:23:56 The bottom line is that /var gets filled up - both Palm and homebrew should come up with easy ways to manage this. Jul 21 03:23:57 my email archive is 7.GB Jul 21 03:24:11 no movies Jul 21 03:24:24 plenty of powerpoint in the work section Jul 21 03:24:26 palm can resize /var and i thought rwhitby said palm has thought about that Jul 21 03:25:04 bpadalino: sure, they can resize /var and /media/internal in whatever ratio they choose, with an OTA update that requires you to save your media files first. Jul 21 03:25:17 right Jul 21 03:26:15 so where's the terminal app? Jul 21 03:26:41 /bin/sh Jul 21 03:26:52 What are we doing with {{ }}? Jul 21 03:26:58 what was PuffTheMagic going on about ? Jul 21 03:27:32 there also is some stuff in /var/logs/reports that seems to show up. I've recorded some notes about the state of my /var here: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/193005-low-disk-file-system-work-around.html#post1764145 Jul 21 03:28:07 I meant "fill up", nit "show up? Jul 21 03:29:17 Robi_: dunno, have you written it yet ;-) Jul 21 03:29:22 (the terminal app) Jul 21 03:29:56 hey i was gone for 3 days and see Puff saying some fun stuff Jul 21 03:29:58 bclancy84: yeah, app crashes and debug uploads will take up some space on /var too Jul 21 03:30:26 i see i'm reading out of context Jul 21 03:30:35 Robi_: he installed optware bash and configured it to suit his tastes. Jul 21 03:30:42 new wiki, heh, what was the prob? Jul 21 03:31:44 old wiki was single point of failure, and failed too often. Jul 21 03:31:50 rwhitby: I really don't feel like reproducing this the way I said. I need to look a bit more into what's actually filling up my device and to make a good story Jul 21 03:32:05 bclancy84: ok Jul 21 03:32:23 rwhitby: I'll look at it more tomorrow Jul 21 03:32:25 Robi_: there's a thread on it on PreCentral Jul 21 03:32:49 Ooh, people are looking into the Pres falsely running out of space? Jul 21 03:33:04 k Jul 21 03:33:37 Oh, this thread is addressing people running out of space for homebrew apps. Jul 21 03:33:47 My issue was running out of space for legit apps, heh. Jul 21 03:33:54 bzhou * r10475 optware/trunk/make/bzr.mk: bzr: 1.16.1 -> 1.17 Jul 21 03:34:05 Could not send confirmation mail. Check address for invalid characters. Jul 21 03:34:06 Mailer returned: 1 Jul 21 03:34:23 I think the the legit apps gives you the err msg around 75%, in order to leave room for other stuff Jul 21 03:34:26 Robi_, I got that too, but the e-mail was still delivered. Jul 21 03:34:39 bclancy84: The issue was that my Pre was not running out of space for apps. Jul 21 03:34:48 we take up a lot of that headroom for homebrew as this are currently Jul 21 03:34:53 ok Jul 21 03:35:01 oh, please explain Jul 21 03:36:18 noir: nod. Jul 21 03:37:20 Robi_: how can we make the notice at the top of the front page more prominent so you would see it? Jul 21 03:37:59 bclancy84: I have the thread bookmarked on my other computer, but basically it's the "Sorry, Not Enough Memory" error when trying to install from the app catalog, even though there is plenty of free space. Jul 21 03:38:25 On the wiki, what should we be using instead of {{ }}? Jul 21 03:39:55 noir: what are you expecting {{ }} to do ? Jul 21 03:40:19 noir: does http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Help:Style_Guide (linked from the front page) help? Jul 21 03:41:05 Didn't see it on there, rwhitby. Jul 21 03:41:13 Look here for an example of what {{ }} was doing: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:MrittEVeUqcJ:predev.wikidot.com/hidden-features+site:predev.wikidot.com+hidden+features&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a Jul 21 03:41:37 If you look above the first code snippet, you'll see that "phoneAppHideCallDuration" is a different font. Jul 21 03:41:58 Robi_: oh, the new wiki doesn't have ads like the link that noir just pasted from the old wiki Jul 21 03:42:17 Looking here, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hidden_Features , you can see the problem that's causing on the new wiki. Jul 21 03:45:00 {{}} is an attempt to call to a template Jul 21 03:45:05 but no template was specified... Jul 21 03:45:08 so it borks Jul 21 03:45:20 noir: try backticks `monospace` Jul 21 03:45:27 just don't do that, unless you MEAN to use a template (like we did in the list of apps.) Jul 21 03:45:41 Rick__: {{ }} means monospace on wikidot Jul 21 03:45:43 noir or stuff Jul 21 03:45:45 also works Jul 21 03:45:55 it did, but it sure as heck doesn't in the new wiki Jul 21 03:46:04 I need to go edit the conversion page to discuss that. Jul 21 03:46:07 ooops Jul 21 03:46:11 noir: I found that by doing google for wikidot syntax, then google for mediawiki monospace Jul 21 03:47:17 Not working for me, but I have to head to ed. Jul 21 03:47:20 *bed Jul 21 03:47:30 Thanks for looking, rwhitby. I'll play around with it tomorrow. Jul 21 03:47:58 rwhitby: that page was google gnerated Jul 21 03:48:07 what am i supposed to notice? Jul 21 03:48:23 i saw the wiki moved just fine Jul 21 03:48:32 much of it. Jul 21 03:48:33 not all Jul 21 03:48:38 people are still working on that Jul 21 03:49:10 Robi_: wikidot reserves the right to put adds on the wiki pages - and they did on the page that noir linked. the new wiki does not and will not have banner ads like that. Jul 21 03:49:22 s/adds/ads/ Jul 21 03:49:23 rwhitby meant: Robi_: wikidot reserves the right to put ads on the wiki pages - and they did on the page that noir linked. the new wiki does not and will not have banner ads like that. Jul 21 03:49:35 is there a way to disable the crazy "lock" feature that shows up when the screen turns on? Jul 21 03:49:51 and also, how can I add icons to my quicklauncher thing Jul 21 03:50:17 sucky everyone is jumping on mediawiki Jul 21 03:50:29 rwhitby: the ads on the bottom about other wikis? Jul 21 03:51:03 Robi_: no, the banner ad for Firefox (in this instance) at the top of the page - nothing against Firefox, but they choose what ads go there. Jul 21 03:51:29 i dont see those.. i guess noScript doing it's job in my browser ;] Jul 21 03:51:30 d03boy: open the app menu, touch and hold an icon on the quick launch until it glows, then drag it off into the menu. Do the same thing to drag an item into the quick launch Jul 21 03:52:50 Robi_: the point is, we had little control over the old wiki, so we had to move before it got too big and entrenched. Jul 21 03:55:30 d03boy there is a mod on precentral to change the launch bar from 4 to 6 icons... I haven't tried it. Jul 21 03:55:55 rwhitby: no worries, i get it. just not pleased with the new wiki syntax Jul 21 03:59:53 hmm ok Jul 21 04:00:01 all this while i read an email from someone @ twiki, heh Jul 21 04:00:06 what about my other question about the lock? Jul 21 04:00:26 Robi_: twiki, or foswiki ? Jul 21 04:01:34 Robi_: low barrier to entry means mediawiki syntax. Jul 21 04:01:48 why not just use mediawiki? Jul 21 04:03:18 d03boy: the new wiki does just that Jul 21 04:03:35 ah Jul 21 04:08:25 bzhou * r10476 optware/trunk/make/tshark.mk: tshark: 1.2.0 -> 1.2.1 Jul 21 04:08:45 twiki Jul 21 04:10:13 Robi_: isn't twiki evil and commercial now? Jul 21 04:12:20 it has an enterprise version but no, still free Jul 21 04:12:34 mediawiki has the advantage that there are ten gazillion wikipedia editors out there that know mediawiki syntax Jul 21 04:12:44 i'm not sugegsting we switch Jul 21 04:13:46 Robi_: I saw somewhere that the guy who ran Twiki went all dictatorial and commercial, and the community had to fork a fosswiki Jul 21 04:15:05 yea possibly .. i met him.. peter thoeny Jul 21 04:15:05 http://foswiki.org/About/WhyThisFork Jul 21 04:15:53 wow that's recent Jul 21 04:17:21 rwhitby: still around? Jul 21 04:17:27 yep Jul 21 04:17:36 can't sleep Jul 21 04:17:41 so i did a reinstall Jul 21 04:17:59 is there a way to take a snapshot now so i wont have to do that again in the future? Jul 21 04:18:04 can snapshot be used in that way? Jul 21 04:18:18 gordian: yep, virtualbox supports snapshots Jul 21 04:18:39 well i'd love to do that and then mount the virtual drive Jul 21 04:18:44 ...if you're up for it Jul 21 04:18:52 but be careful with those snapshots. Jul 21 04:19:06 I wanted to discard my snapshot, and I ended up screwing up my whole VM Jul 21 04:19:22 ok Jul 21 04:20:46 gordian: have you created the virtual drive according to virtualbox instructions and worked out some way to format the first partition as ext3 ? Jul 21 04:21:21 nope Jul 21 04:21:31 i just came back from a reboot after reinstalling Jul 21 04:21:51 where do i need to mount the partition once its created? Jul 21 04:22:00 ./dev/hdb ? Jul 21 04:23:13 the first partition will be /dev/hdb1, and the script will mount that Jul 21 04:24:07 * rwhitby bbl (lunch) Jul 21 04:35:42 if u increase the size of the swap fs will that increase the RAM? Jul 21 04:36:00 and in doing so speed up the phone? Jul 21 04:37:14 HELLO?! Jul 21 04:43:32 seekis -- I wouldn't think so Jul 21 04:43:44 wwhy not Jul 21 04:44:01 swap and ram aren't the same Jul 21 04:44:04 i know Jul 21 04:44:10 well kinda Jul 21 04:44:20 what is swap used for then Jul 21 04:44:42 swap is used whenever you run out of ram Jul 21 04:45:06 so when you exceed the 256 MB stock it overflows in to the swap? Jul 21 04:45:08 so that the app can keep running, although slower Jul 21 04:45:21 oh Jul 21 04:45:22 ok Jul 21 04:45:49 without the swap, the app would just crash, or fail because it ran out of memory Jul 21 04:46:13 cuz i found the swaphack.sh on my pre and thought if i upped the swap size i could run more things at once without worrying about "too many cards open" message Jul 21 04:46:16 increasing the swap size would let you run larger apps, but not run them faster Jul 21 04:46:50 yeah, it might let you run more apps also Jul 21 04:46:57 but not faster Jul 21 04:47:06 well more is still a nice option to have Jul 21 04:48:48 ok i've made a new drive in virtualbox but cant figure out how to format to ext3 or mount it Jul 21 04:49:23 any help would be appreciated Jul 21 04:51:01 How do you install X.org on this device? Jul 21 04:52:10 woo foswiki sounds great with those videos Jul 21 04:54:09 pg13: if you need to ask that you probably shouldnt Jul 21 04:55:15 puffthemagic: ah Jul 21 04:55:23 puffthemagic: how am i gonna run gtk appz :( Jul 21 04:56:27 i didnt say it couldnt be done... but there is a lot of work for that which no one i know has attempted yet Jul 21 04:56:36 oh i c Jul 21 04:57:49 bzhou * r10477 optware/trunk/make/9base.mk: 9base: 20070601 -> 20090309 Jul 21 04:58:25 puffthmagic: how do find out the ip of the device (local lan ip) short of using novaterm or looking at router dhcplist? Jul 21 04:58:43 look in the wireless settings on the pre Jul 21 04:58:56 ok cool Jul 21 04:59:02 thanks :) Jul 21 04:59:56 puffthemagic: what gonn happen when an update for webos comes out and the files are changed so drastically Jul 21 05:00:00 that the patches cannot be reapplied Jul 21 05:00:01 o_O Jul 21 05:00:15 the patches get updates? Jul 21 05:00:17 updated Jul 21 05:00:25 oh Jul 21 05:00:48 puffy: last question mate, what do i do to get a terminal on the palm mang i dont have mobile classic.... Jul 21 05:01:01 and puffthemagic mean puff the weed? Jul 21 05:01:10 there are not quality terminals yet Jul 21 05:03:06 puffthemagic: so just restarting will exit out of developer mode mate? Jul 21 05:03:14 no Jul 21 05:03:18 you need to turn it off Jul 21 05:03:24 developer mode that is Jul 21 05:03:50 oh ok sounds good mate Jul 21 05:03:57 now my palm pre is open mate Jul 21 05:04:21 thanks a lot puff the magic Jul 21 05:04:24 gordian: what host OS are you running virtual box on? Jul 21 05:04:24 np Jul 21 05:04:36 xp Jul 21 05:05:01 gordian: there are two options - the long but easy option, or the short but harder option Jul 21 05:05:26 puffhtemagic i got a question man - what if there is wifi but the wifi does not have internet accss Jul 21 05:05:30 which is the *better* option Jul 21 05:05:31 if the laptop connects to the palm pre thru wifi Jul 21 05:05:32 ? Jul 21 05:05:36 will the palm pre still have internet thru evda? Jul 21 05:06:06 y Jul 21 05:06:10 harder is fine with me Jul 21 05:06:23 longer doesn't bother me terribly either Jul 21 05:07:13 gordian: the longer one is to use a Linux Live CD to format the virtual disk. Jul 21 05:07:27 ahh well i haven't got one of those Jul 21 05:07:30 the harder one is to do it on the Pre Emulator directly. Jul 21 05:07:35 and don't feel like d/ling one Jul 21 05:07:39 lets try the emu directly Jul 21 05:08:31 gordian: ok, hang on while I boot mine. Jul 21 05:09:02 gordian: while you're waiting, Rick__ will advise you where to create the wiki page where you're going to document this as we go ... Jul 21 05:09:18 hmm Jul 21 05:09:21 ok Jul 21 05:09:31 PuffTheMagic: When the screen turns off it seems as though wifi turns off Jul 21 05:09:34 :( Jul 21 05:09:39 yes Jul 21 05:09:47 pg13: yes that tends to happen Jul 21 05:09:53 use the patch i made to keep it on when connected Jul 21 05:09:53 what should i do about that puffthemagic or gordian Jul 21 05:09:56 its ont he wiki Jul 21 05:09:57 oh ok Jul 21 05:09:59 thanks Jul 21 05:10:11 or play music Jul 21 05:10:21 http://www.webos-internals.org/index.php?title=PalmAppMods:screenlock Jul 21 05:11:29 hopefully i can log this Jul 21 05:13:40 yess Jul 21 05:13:47 ok rwhitby Jul 21 05:13:50 ready whenever you are Jul 21 05:14:31 gordian: do you have a new virtual disk attached to the Pre Emulator virtual machine? Jul 21 05:14:32 Puffthemagic Jul 21 05:14:43 can i simply take ur patch and put it in this /opt/src/modifications folder Jul 21 05:14:52 and then apply it the same way that u do the other patchez Jul 21 05:15:12 idk how any of that automated stuff works i havent looked at it yet Jul 21 05:15:18 i do everything with git and patch Jul 21 05:15:24 oo Jul 21 05:15:56 README browser clock luna musicplayer phoneprefs Jul 21 05:16:00 applauncher camera email messaging phone tasks Jul 21 05:16:12 what section would yours be in Jul 21 05:16:16 if you had to put it in a secton lol Jul 21 05:16:25 idk what u are talking about Jul 21 05:16:34 ah Jul 21 05:18:21 PuffTheMagic: what built-in app does your patch modify? Jul 21 05:18:33 screenlock Jul 21 05:18:42 i should add that to the wiki Jul 21 05:18:44 :D Jul 21 05:19:12 what is the id of the screenlock application? if it's com.palm.screenlock, then "screenlock" is the right subdir in which to put the patch in the modifications repo Jul 21 05:19:23 oh Jul 21 05:19:38 rwhitby: what should the filename be? Jul 21 05:19:54 onWhenConnected.patch ? Jul 21 05:20:04 some-long-name-that-describes-precisely-what-the-patch-does.patch Jul 21 05:20:16 puffthemagic: what did you name the patch file on ur computer Jul 21 05:20:28 name dont matter Jul 21 05:20:34 i just want it to be uniform Jul 21 05:20:34 ;o Jul 21 05:20:47 it does if pg13 is going to contribute it to the repo Jul 21 05:21:13 someone is gonna put my patch in the repo instead of me? Jul 21 05:21:25 lol i won dont worry but since im manually putting it in my local repo Jul 21 05:21:29 i just wnana follow ur naming Jul 21 05:21:31 :o Jul 21 05:21:43 so i dont end up after updating w/ 2 patches with diff names that are exactly identical =x Jul 21 05:21:46 i didnt create a name for it... i just ran git diff and pasted into the wiki Jul 21 05:22:06 ah Jul 21 05:22:13 PuffTheMagic: work with us here - what would you call it if you needed to give it a long descriptive name Jul 21 05:22:46 describe in 5 words or more what it does Jul 21 05:22:58 StayOnWhenConnected Jul 21 05:23:07 oo nice name Jul 21 05:23:24 so would it be like 'stay-on-when-connected.patch' Jul 21 05:23:28 located in /opt/src/modifications/screenlock Jul 21 05:23:29 ? Jul 21 05:23:31 yep Jul 21 05:23:34 cool :D Jul 21 05:24:09 rwhitby Jul 21 05:24:19 pg13: before the patch goes in the repo, it should be re-rooted at / Jul 21 05:24:19 sorry mate, gotta crash Jul 21 05:24:30 gordian: ok, i was waiting for you to answer my last question Jul 21 05:24:32 rwhitby: yes sir Jul 21 05:24:37 oh didnt see it Jul 21 05:24:45 gordian: do you have a new virtual disk attached to the Pre Emulator virtual machine? Jul 21 05:25:12 would it be violating some license if we put the whole pre useland in a git repo Jul 21 05:25:14 i'm not sure Jul 21 05:25:17 i might Jul 21 05:25:17 and made branches for each patch Jul 21 05:25:40 in virtual media manager i have a new hard disk that's 1gb Jul 21 05:25:46 PuffTheMagic: having the whole files available in a public git repo would violate the license Jul 21 05:25:58 it's attached to the pre emu, so i guess "yes" Jul 21 05:25:59 gordian: what does 'cat /proc/partitions' say? Jul 21 05:26:08 i thought there was some "for development" clause Jul 21 05:26:17 ls Jul 21 05:26:19 oops Jul 21 05:26:30 PuffTheMagic: not as far as redistributing proprietary palm code there isn't Jul 21 05:27:17 but they didnt release any proprietary palm code that I know of... everything is a closed binary or open code ;) Jul 21 05:27:19 major minor #blocks name Jul 21 05:27:21 3 0 512000 hda Jul 21 05:27:22 3 1 506016 hda1 Jul 21 05:27:23 but i know what u are saying Jul 21 05:27:27 3 64 1048576 hdb Jul 21 05:27:33 that's it Jul 21 05:27:38 it's not mounted or formatted Jul 21 05:27:40 rwhitby: is there a howto for lvresize-ing yet Jul 21 05:27:59 i just did it on my pre so i should be able to write one Jul 21 05:28:00 right? Jul 21 05:28:02 PuffTheMagic: nope, I don't think the guy who did it wrote up a wiki page Jul 21 05:28:08 hey i think i screwed up Jul 21 05:28:08 PuffTheMagic: sweet Jul 21 05:28:18 it was pretty smooth too Jul 21 05:28:33 easier to do this with out stuff on /opt though Jul 21 05:28:36 http://webos.pastebin.com/d15933012 Jul 21 05:28:51 gordian: yeah, I'm just looking for an fdisk on the emulator other than the one in optware (which would be a chicken and egg) Jul 21 05:28:55 like there should be a "maybe you want to do this first" message before optware gets installed Jul 21 05:29:21 hehe yeah i get it Jul 21 05:29:36 rwhitby; does that pastebin i pasted make any sense o.o;; Jul 21 05:29:40 PuffTheMagic: we discussed resizing with Palm folks - they said that would probably cause problems if they had to do an OTA resize themselves Jul 21 05:29:55 they would do something like that Jul 21 05:30:07 that seems scary Jul 21 05:30:15 cause it wipes your parition Jul 21 05:30:17 when you resize it Jul 21 05:30:22 PuffTheMagic: nope Jul 21 05:30:27 it did on mine Jul 21 05:30:34 after resize it was empty Jul 21 05:30:34 so I've got a noob question that might make my working with my Pre a little easier at least as far as modifying files is concerned Jul 21 05:30:38 PuffTheMagic: they have the means to increase the ext3 size. they get you to save your media contents first Jul 21 05:30:45 What the heck is going on in here Jul 21 05:31:01 rwhitby: ehh... i will deal with that when it comes Jul 21 05:31:16 pg13: PuffTheMagic's patch is anchored at /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.screenlock (or something) Jul 21 05:31:31 pg13: for the instructions that we publish, it needs to be anchored at / Jul 21 05:31:35 ohh Jul 21 05:31:44 so i need to be in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.screenlock Jul 21 05:31:44 i can redo it Jul 21 05:31:47 to apply that patch Jul 21 05:31:49 how can I copy files to my local computer to view instead of just editing with VI I made a mistake somewhere and that screen is getting tiresome Jul 21 05:31:57 give me like 5 min to finnish this resize on my pre Jul 21 05:31:58 pg13: yep, or just wait for PuffTheMagic to redo it Jul 21 05:32:01 and then i will rebase it Jul 21 05:32:02 oh ok :D Jul 21 05:32:10 rwhitby; how do i temporarily remove the failed install ? Jul 21 05:32:12 (patch) Jul 21 05:32:14 Quantum_Mechanic: scp Jul 21 05:32:22 rwhitby Jul 21 05:32:27 my eyes are closing Jul 21 05:32:28 pg13: it didn't apply, so didn't change anything Jul 21 05:32:30 let's do it tomorrow Jul 21 05:32:32 cuz i still see it in quilt series =x tho o_o Jul 21 05:32:59 rwhitby: is there a non busybox version of bash in optware? Jul 21 05:33:06 gordian: you can either mke2fs the new disk, and change the script to mount /dev/hdb instead of /dev/hdb1, or wait for tomorrow to see if I find a way of partitioning the disk on the emulator Jul 21 05:33:14 PuffTheMagic: yes package is bash Jul 21 05:33:21 PuffTheMagic: there is no bash in busybox Jul 21 05:33:21 i have that installed Jul 21 05:33:27 and it seems like busybox bash Jul 21 05:33:34 i can change the script Jul 21 05:33:35 busybox has ash I think never bash Jul 21 05:33:39 shouldnt be a prob Jul 21 05:33:45 mke2fs ? Jul 21 05:33:45 you are right its not bash in busybox Jul 21 05:33:58 it has some bashisms Jul 21 05:34:03 but closer to sh probablyt Jul 21 05:34:04 something is right about my sh/console/ssh Jul 21 05:34:04 PuffTheMagic: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make/bash.mk Jul 21 05:34:12 come keys dont work right Jul 21 05:34:17 PuffTheMagic: bash 3.2 from ftp.gnu.org Jul 21 05:34:18 rwhitby, should i delete /opt/src/patches/series and /opt/src/patches/stay-on-when-connected.patch Jul 21 05:34:19 s/come/some/ Jul 21 05:34:19 PuffTheMagic meant: some keys dont work right Jul 21 05:34:24 pg13: yep Jul 21 05:34:24 o_O or is there a correct way to do it Jul 21 05:34:29 oh ok :D Jul 21 05:34:36 i have no command history Jul 21 05:34:40 pg13: and you'll want / to be rw next time too Jul 21 05:34:52 rwhitby: yes sir Jul 21 05:35:14 PuffTheMagic: dunno - the build recipe is in the .mk file I pasted Jul 21 05:35:21 rwhitby: why not just wget the util-linux dpkg and extract the fisk binary from it into tmp? Jul 21 05:35:31 destinal: yeah, that's the last resort. Jul 21 05:35:31 to avoid the chicken / egg thing Jul 21 05:35:49 destinal: we are gonna need to make a special build of upstart Jul 21 05:35:53 destinal: I was hoping palm left an fdisk in there - they have e2fsprogs installed in the emulator by default Jul 21 05:35:53 i think they are using an old one Jul 21 05:35:56 with out dbus Jul 21 05:36:10 I don't think they built fdisk in their busybox Jul 21 05:36:16 no, they didn't Jul 21 05:36:33 rwhitby: we'll hit it tomorrow Jul 21 05:36:36 gotta run mate Jul 21 05:36:38 thanks again Jul 21 05:36:42 destinal: hmm - maybe we just copy the rootfs virtual disk and reformat the copy Jul 21 05:36:46 i'll be on earlier tomorrow Jul 21 05:37:02 rwhitby sorry for noobness and further noobness with failure to search wiki - do i just -- "mount -o remount,rw /" to do it and then "mount -o remount,ro /" when done? Jul 21 05:37:04 but i'll idle Jul 21 05:37:25 rwhitby: oh, to keep it simple.. Jul 21 05:37:33 destinal: yeah Jul 21 05:37:41 rwhitby: you don't actually technically need to fdisk Jul 21 05:37:51 you *could* just lay down a raw fs on /dev/hdb Jul 21 05:37:58 destinal: I know, but weren't you the one who suggested /dev/hdb1 ? Jul 21 05:38:10 destinal: I ran /dev/hdb as ext3 for some time Jul 21 05:38:14 yes, I did, mainly because it's more conventional and what people will be used to Jul 21 05:38:19 and they can fdisk -l etc Jul 21 05:38:26 but it's not a big deal Jul 21 05:38:40 rwhitby destinal what are you talking about... sdb* Jul 21 05:38:40 destinal: yeah, I'll go /dev/hdb before wgetting util-linux and unpacking Jul 21 05:38:43 what context is this Jul 21 05:38:58 PuffTheMagic: extra virtual disk on emulator to store optware Jul 21 05:39:05 oh Jul 21 05:39:47 rwhitby: had anyone dealt with how to make the hdb disk or a guide just walks them through doing it in vbox? Jul 21 05:40:34 destinal: nope, gordian is going to write that one up I expect Jul 21 05:40:36 since obviously there's no red pill :) Jul 21 05:40:58 rwhitby: this is interesting my palmpre restarted but im still connected via ssh O_O Jul 21 05:41:09 destinal: if he doesn't write it up, he will find getting help from me tomorrow difficult ... ;) Jul 21 05:41:19 heh Jul 21 05:41:53 one of my personal rules of behaviour is that if I help someone, I expect them to write it up on the wiki for the next guy. Jul 21 05:42:08 share the load Jul 21 05:42:08 rwhitby: yes sir Jul 21 05:42:19 rwhitby: i will add all your help knowledge in the wiki when done promise Jul 21 05:42:28 rwhitby: when i want to add more patches after i have applied one patch Jul 21 05:42:36 should i clear out the /opt/src/patches directory Jul 21 05:42:38 or just keep adding more Jul 21 05:42:43 and then quilt push'ing Jul 21 05:42:58 pg13: are you following the existing wiki page for that? Jul 21 05:43:01 yes sir Jul 21 05:43:09 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches Jul 21 05:43:35 i followed it and added one patch and it applied successfully and restarted and now the patch is visible (laucnherpages patch) Jul 21 05:43:51 now i want to add another patch but /opt/src/patches/series still has the laucnherpage.patch there and the patch file is in the directory also Jul 21 05:44:07 so im wonering if i should erase the folder's contents or continue quilt import'ing Jul 21 05:44:42 pg13: quilt delete to remove a patch Jul 21 05:44:58 otherwise just keep importing them to get a list of patches in the series file Jul 21 05:45:38 you *want* quilt to know all the patches you have applied, so that it can unapply them automatically for you before the next OTA update (you have to tell it to do so) Jul 21 05:45:56 oh ok Jul 21 05:46:15 that series file and the /.pc directory is the record of the state of your filesystem. Jul 21 05:47:29 does anyone know how to enable developer mode with luna-send? Jul 21 05:47:39 ok so rwhitby im very sorry for stupidity seriously im very stupid but ill try to help ppl who come in here in the future and u know i will cuz human nature tends to have ppl share the knowledge they gain... but Jul 21 05:47:54 right now i can just keep importing a ton of patches and then push quilt push all at once Jul 21 05:48:00 yep Jul 21 05:48:06 cool ty :D Jul 21 05:48:13 but probably better to do one at a time Jul 21 05:48:17 (to make sure each works) Jul 21 05:48:29 oh ok :D Jul 21 05:48:37 and i take it the -a flag is just for "all" :D :D cool Jul 21 05:48:38 pg13: this quilt stuff is not an easy concept, so don't be discouraged. Jul 21 05:48:42 bzhou * r10478 optware/trunk/make/9base.mk: 9base: default get9root Jul 21 05:48:49 rwhitby: yes sir Jul 21 05:49:12 pg13: you're here rather than wallowing in ignorance and unable to do cool webos things, so you shouldn't call yourself stupid. :) Jul 21 05:50:17 the most important steps are questioning and knowing where to go to get answers Jul 21 05:51:43 (and using your own resources to search google and the wiki before asking each question) Jul 21 05:52:15 destinal: :D Jul 21 05:52:17 right, there's an order of precedence for answers and where to get them. public resources first Jul 21 05:52:18 rwhitby: yes sir :D Jul 21 05:52:40 that's why we all work to make them Jul 21 05:52:41 * rwhitby isn't a knight of the realm (yet) Jul 21 05:53:58 destinal: looks like we need to do /dev/hdb, since there is no fdisk on the emulator, but there is mkfs.ext3 Jul 21 05:54:04 (and mkfs.ext4 for that matter) Jul 21 05:54:32 rwhitby: do you know if there is going to be a gui or curses based interface for quilt in the future? o_o;; i'd love for my friends to have access to this wonderful stuff but im scared they might get confused :( Jul 21 05:54:47 rwhitby: cool, block device is a block device and functionality and availability beat tradition Jul 21 05:54:58 destinal: any ideas on how to safely tell that /dev/hdb has not been formatted yet, and that we should run mkfs.ext3 on it? Jul 21 05:55:27 alas, no "file" either Jul 21 05:55:30 pg13: we've built the basic functionality - anyone with the right skills can add a GUI on the front Jul 21 05:55:36 Applying patch /opt/src/patches/phone-show-call-duration.sh Jul 21 05:55:36 patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input. Jul 21 05:55:37 was looking for magic Jul 21 05:55:43 Hey sorry for pasting here it was only 2 lines thts why i did :( Jul 21 05:55:48 but doesnt that look a little weird lol Jul 21 05:56:18 pg13: malformed patch it seems. look at it with "cat " and see if it looks like PuffTheMagic's patch Jul 21 05:56:35 you know what Jul 21 05:56:38 it doesnt look like a patch Jul 21 05:56:51 it is some kind of !/bin/sh script Jul 21 05:56:52 o_o;; Jul 21 05:57:07 pg13: ah, it's a .sh file, not a .patch file Jul 21 05:57:14 ah Jul 21 05:57:22 i wonder how it got in the repository o.o;; i didnt add it manually lol Jul 21 05:57:29 it's meant to be there Jul 21 05:57:36 you need to run it to enact that modification Jul 21 05:57:41 ohh Jul 21 05:57:42 ic :D Jul 21 05:57:43 it changes an sqlite database I believe Jul 21 05:57:51 nice Jul 21 05:57:59 im not gonna mess w/ it though cuz i dont know how to remove it after lol O_O Jul 21 05:58:08 good plan Jul 21 05:58:16 :D Jul 21 05:58:32 we need to ask the person who committed it what their plan is for OTA updates for that modification Jul 21 05:58:49 ls Jul 21 05:58:51 oops Jul 21 05:59:45 hmm Jul 21 06:00:07 too bad there isnt some kind of cydia type interface for all this cool stuff you guys made lol... Jul 21 06:00:21 if there was, i think palm pre would blow up and be one of hte most popularphones on campus =x Jul 21 06:00:35 palm should pay you guys Jul 21 06:00:53 pg13: all these apps should end up in Palm's app catalog Jul 21 06:00:59 it's just a matter of time Jul 21 06:01:05 oh what about hte patches/mods though lol Jul 21 06:01:11 i mean this launcher pages thing alone is huge! Jul 21 06:01:19 you dont knokw how it helped me in terms of organization Jul 21 06:01:28 rwhitby Jul 21 06:01:32 pg13: that code was already in Palm's sources. we just uncommented it. Jul 21 06:01:36 sudo dd if=/dev/sda3 of=fsbegin bs=2000 count=1 Jul 21 06:01:41 $ file fsbegin Jul 21 06:01:41 fsbegin: Linux rev 1.0 ext3 filesystem data, UUID=f35b8060-a10f-415e-ad77-a497999a1fb1 (needs journal recovery) (large files Jul 21 06:01:53 we could find the magic without file I suppose Jul 21 06:02:07 destinal: maybe I just try and mount it, and mkfs it if the mount fails. Jul 21 06:02:30 sure, that's simpler and should work Jul 21 06:02:40 I was thinking of some kind of fsck args but I'd have to dig for them Jul 21 06:02:45 since it's only when people run the bootstrap script, it should be fine Jul 21 06:04:56 * PuffTheMagic fixing patch now Jul 21 06:05:42 destinal: what are you trying to do now? Jul 21 06:05:44 yup mount -t ext2 /dev/hdb /mnt/hdb || echo failed Jul 21 06:05:46 works as expected Jul 21 06:05:55 oh still emu stuff Jul 21 06:05:55 n,m Jul 21 06:06:38 PuffTheMagic: mrvc made a lot of progress on plugins, he's got all the javascript object properties and function / invoke stuff working Jul 21 06:06:48 nice Jul 21 06:06:49 git pull to check it out Jul 21 06:07:00 destinal: you get my message about upstart Jul 21 06:07:36 the latest version having dbus yeah Jul 21 06:07:54 err well i said the version on the pre does not have dbus it seems Jul 21 06:08:03 rwhitby: really dumb Q -- http://predev.wikidot.com/hide-delete-the-nascar-app -- in OTA update is there an issue? Jul 21 06:08:07 but would it talk to luna-send or do they do something special to dbus for the busses? Jul 21 06:08:12 (in other words should i make it into a patch lol) Jul 21 06:08:26 it should work Jul 21 06:08:33 but we need a upstart with dbus first Jul 21 06:08:39 idk how about adding that to optware Jul 21 06:09:04 pg13: dunno Jul 21 06:09:28 PuffTheMagic: should be easy to add to optware Jul 21 06:09:35 rwhitby: ill make a patch :D Jul 21 06:09:57 PuffTheMagic: the hard bit is that optware can't modify Palm files, so you need to work out how the two interoperate Jul 21 06:10:15 (not "can't" but "doesn't by design and policy") Jul 21 06:10:18 well we can install it anywhere Jul 21 06:10:25 rwhitby: its just diff -u originalfile modifiedfile > thisisthepatch.patch Jul 21 06:10:27 and just change init= in the boot config Jul 21 06:10:28 ? Jul 21 06:10:38 pg13: yep, running that from / Jul 21 06:10:44 rwhitby: cool sounds good Jul 21 06:10:45 =) Jul 21 06:18:57 rwhitby: sorry for the stupidity Jul 21 06:19:08 In root@castle:/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.sprintportal# Jul 21 06:19:24 there is a file called 12022008... at first glance it looks just like an appinfo.json file Jul 21 06:19:43 so in that case is it identical to an appinfo.json, i noticed in there it says "launchPointId": "12022008", Jul 21 06:20:00 in other words just like hiding nascar can i hide it by doing "visible": "false" Jul 21 06:21:05 the sprint portal has it self in two locations Jul 21 06:21:20 /usr/palm/applications and then another /usr/luna/launcher or osmething like that Jul 21 06:21:47 psykoz: ic Jul 21 06:21:57 psykoz: so if i put "visible": "false" in Both of those files Jul 21 06:22:02 it will be hidden? o_O Jul 21 06:22:03 you'll have to not take that second path literally but basically look for it by hand etc Jul 21 06:22:14 you just need to do the file in the luna (or launcher?) folder Jul 21 06:22:20 not the /usr/palm/applications one Jul 21 06:22:28 oh ok cool Jul 21 06:22:28 =) Jul 21 06:23:35 looks like it might be: /usr/luna/launchpoints Jul 21 06:23:52 I dunno, mine is empty because I just rm'd the sprint portal rather than doign visible false Jul 21 06:24:22 ooo Jul 21 06:24:32 pyskoz: you aren't scared for what could happen on OTA? o_O Jul 21 06:24:36 update* Jul 21 06:25:13 no Jul 21 06:25:17 I'm not scared of anything Jul 21 06:25:23 man i made a successful patch ;o how do i donate this to the repository or is it a useless patch heh Jul 21 06:26:01 fixed patch here http://dpaste.com/69391/ Jul 21 06:26:08 someone can upload that i guess Jul 21 06:28:07 :D Jul 21 06:38:58 Yikes Jul 21 06:39:22 cant we link to outside [[image:http: Jul 21 06:39:22 s Jul 21 06:40:27 Anyone know if dropbear ssh daemon will affect batery life at all =x Jul 21 06:44:32 oc80z: dunno, maybe it's goatse prevention by default Jul 21 06:45:09 Rick__: PreChess added to PreWare Jul 21 06:52:10 This is a specific question to a specific patch so this may be the wrong place -- but what happens if the download times out or fails (http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Downloading_From_The_Browser) Jul 21 06:56:14 rwhitby - url? for preware? I'll go edit the precentral post Jul 21 06:56:20 we may as well start mentioning it Jul 21 06:57:06 Rick__: preware grabs it from the PreCentral thread. Jul 21 06:57:16 oc80z - you have to upload the image to the wiki Jul 21 06:57:27 we have 'external images' turnd off in mediawiki Jul 21 06:57:47 Rick__: that would invoke ouroboros Jul 21 06:57:54 oh, really!!! Gosh Jul 21 06:58:05 what's the url for preware tho? Jul 21 06:58:23 I promise not to cause a time-like-loop Jul 21 06:58:40 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/ Jul 21 07:00:21 k Jul 21 07:00:37 so how does it decide to pick up items from precentral? Jul 21 07:13:09 alright I have no idea how I did it but the files I'm trying to change have become read only. what did I do wrong? went back to using VI have changed it all once, think I figured out where it messed up and can't save Jul 21 07:15:46 are you root? use sudo Jul 21 07:16:10 connected via USB, pretty sure I used login root Jul 21 07:16:31 what's the terminal say? user@castle: Jul 21 07:16:40 does it say root@castle or another username? Jul 21 07:16:41 let me see, Jul 21 07:17:04 yes root@castle Jul 21 07:17:19 is the operating system read/write? type mount and look at the first line Jul 21 07:17:43 Rick__: the preware packaging makefile has a SRC url Jul 21 07:18:20 Rick__: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/preware/blobs/master/apps/prechess/Makefile is the one for PreChess. Jul 21 07:18:24 footfs on / type rootfs (rw) Jul 21 07:18:30 hmmm.... Jul 21 07:18:51 so you vi a file and then it won't let you save your changes? Jul 21 07:19:00 gonna try it again now Jul 21 07:19:47 nope can't save it Jul 21 07:20:16 can you create a new file? cp the file to a new filename in the same directory Jul 21 07:20:18 rwhitby: regarding your "rooting" / brick thread on precentral, I would bet dd out to the flash disk would brick a pre by killing bootie which is in flash. you'd need DFU to recover I think Jul 21 07:20:22 quick question, does dropbear support ssh tunneling? Jul 21 07:20:59 psykoz: yep Jul 21 07:21:18 rwhitby: I'm _not_ going to test that theory Jul 21 07:21:18 destinal: do we know if the first partition is writeable? Jul 21 07:21:47 I don't know but I would imagine so Jul 21 07:22:01 I guess we can check in the kernel sources Jul 21 07:22:02 oc80z: dunno, maybe it's goatse prevention by default Jul 21 07:22:03 haha Jul 21 07:22:11 can't copy the file Jul 21 07:22:19 rwhitby: you can also do odd things like change serial numbers in there I think Jul 21 07:22:44 destinal: yeah, I expect our mates on mobile forums could tell us the answers :-) Jul 21 07:22:48 although the nduid is on a seperate chip I believe Jul 21 07:23:14 I swear i just need to add a closing and this thing should work Jul 21 07:23:22 a kernel module for misreporting your nduid would be good for the paranoid Jul 21 07:23:44 I don't understand Quantum_Mechanic. what are the file permissions when you do a ls -l? Jul 21 07:24:31 -rw-r--r-- Jul 21 07:25:12 that is for the folder /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.soundsandalerts/app/views/soundsalertsconfig/soundsalertsconfig-scene.html Jul 21 07:25:22 nix the html file Jul 21 07:27:03 ok I guess I should sleep :) night all Jul 21 07:27:17 night destinal Jul 21 07:29:22 Dunno Quantum_Mechanic ... try a reboot? Jul 21 07:30:10 does the "enable developer's console" reset after the phone is reset... Jul 21 07:30:42 no Jul 21 07:30:45 or is that more or less permanently enabled? Jul 21 07:30:51 hm Jul 21 07:30:53 It will stay on until you turn it off Jul 21 07:32:24 didn't see that option to turn it off, just found the site here today... or yesterday now was curious to try something out lol enabling the notification tone selections been messing with this for 3 - 4 hours now Jul 21 07:32:49 You turn it off the same way you turned it on. It's just a switch you flip Jul 21 07:33:12 you mean the konami code thing? Jul 21 07:33:55 just typed it in again now i remember the switch Jul 21 07:36:58 I'm leaving now, good luck though Jul 21 07:38:27 kk Jul 21 07:39:31 oc80z: I think there is a homebrew wiki page already - what do you intend to put in the one you just created? Jul 21 07:40:00 oc80z: see http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:webOS_Applications Jul 21 07:41:14 oc80z: please use the templates on that page and categorise accordingly instead of just moving the disorganisation of the old wiki across to the new one ;-) Jul 21 07:44:52 oc80z: I've removed it from http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pages_to_be_Transferred - please choose another :-) Jul 21 07:45:53 * rwhitby bbl Jul 21 09:05:19 ok Jul 21 09:05:57 yea rw, i selected that one Jul 21 09:06:04 the homebrew one.. Jul 21 09:06:09 it was there yesterday :P Jul 21 09:15:58 hi guys Jul 21 09:32:31 yup Jul 21 09:50:04 ,..i think the roam patches are borked? Jul 21 10:14:10 ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward) Jul 21 10:14:37 cat *.pub | pdcopy Jul 21 10:14:41 oops Jul 21 10:14:43 yo rw Jul 21 11:31:55 oc80z: yeah, sorry about that - that one shouldn't have been on the list cause it's not a straight transfer. Jul 21 11:37:49 hey rwhitby Jul 21 11:38:12 any solutions present themselves since last night? Jul 21 11:45:08 gordian: let me push the latest version of the script Jul 21 11:46:11 gordian: grab the new versions of both the optware and the quilt scripts now, and as long as you have a /dev/hdb before running them they should complete successfully. Jul 21 11:47:00 pastebin if you get anything other than all lines showing OK Jul 21 11:51:56 ok after almost two weeks of vacation time to get to work :) Jul 21 11:56:18 * rwhitby bbt Jul 21 11:58:52 morning Jul 21 11:59:00 hah i found a bug with the messaging-forwarding patch Jul 21 11:59:23 0o Jul 21 11:59:31 you cannot play any mp3 audi that is sent to you because everytime you click it, it wants to forward. Also when you do forward the media is not sent along with the message :( Jul 21 11:59:37 have to take that patch off for now Jul 21 12:01:31 ouch Jul 21 12:01:49 Ford motor is now #1 in quality among car makers Jul 21 12:01:52 wow Jul 21 12:02:23 they cfall ford quality? Jul 21 12:02:26 * jcrawford shakes head Jul 21 12:02:46 it had the least amount of problems vs all other car makers Jul 21 12:15:57 rwhitby still use the -x switch? Jul 21 13:26:11 I asked this last night, but I'm still lost Jul 21 13:26:19 how can I flash my pre? Jul 21 13:26:50 I have my own webOS.jar file I want to upload to it, not one that the java applet wants to download Jul 21 13:26:52 mark__: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover Jul 21 13:27:03 oh nvm. Jul 21 13:27:26 (it's probably on the site though) Jul 21 13:29:22 nah, only find the same info as I was previously pointed to Jul 21 13:29:56 that site on Palm just wants to re-download the 200 MB file, then upload that Jul 21 13:30:08 I want a manual process where I choose what to upload to phone Jul 21 13:31:55 or does it ask me after it has fully downloaded the file? Jul 21 13:32:36 No, all that file will do is restore the phone to factory settings (with the latest firmware). Jul 21 13:33:06 where can I find a program to do it manually? Jul 21 13:33:29 I'm a little versed in linux, so don't have problem doing cmd line if I have to Jul 21 13:33:56 - or if there is a way to do it that way - I should say Jul 21 13:34:05 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page_beta Comments /Suggestions on the new Main Page of the wiki. Jul 21 13:35:56 Templarian: how do the current and beta main pages look on the Pre? Jul 21 13:36:14 let me check. Jul 21 13:36:14 A webos-internals site has to be readable on the device itself. Jul 21 13:36:49 You could check for your self... ohhh... yea. (hehe) Jul 21 13:37:17 Actually with the emulator but then the jokes not funny. Jul 21 13:40:13 Views good on my device. Still a few changes needed. Jul 21 13:41:04 if the icons on the beta page take you to the portals instead of the image, then it works for me Jul 21 13:41:24 Yea, I noticed that I'm about to fix it. Jul 21 13:41:37 (they actually won't link anywhere.) Jul 21 13:42:23 or should I be asking these questions at #webos? Jul 21 13:42:35 Patches_to_webOS and Source_Patches are duplicates Jul 21 13:42:42 need to merge those into one Jul 21 13:42:56 (one is on current main page, one is on beta) Jul 21 13:42:57 I'm trying to follow this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation Jul 21 13:43:13 I'mve done with all the rest, but can't find a way to now flash phone Jul 21 13:43:50 mark__: no-one currently here has done it. you need to speak to pEEF or Ajax. Jul 21 13:44:13 hm.. and how can I get a hold of them? Jul 21 13:44:40 dunno. perhaps send a PM to them on the old wiki site. Jul 21 13:45:13 (another reason for email verification of accounts on the new site) Jul 21 13:45:33 n where is the old wiki? Jul 21 13:47:01 * rwhitby bbt Jul 21 13:48:31 mark__: If you're in linux you can reflash with the webos doctor, you just need to install the linux sdk an novacomd, and then download the doctor jar and run it with java -jar ... Jul 21 13:48:38 morning Jul 21 13:49:03 PuffTheMagic: good morning Jul 21 13:49:23 PuffTheMagic: keep an eye on the applications.git repository. interesting things starting Jul 21 13:49:28 but that doctor only wants to flash with original right, or can I specify my own file Jul 21 13:49:49 mark__: well modify the jar, rebuild it with the new nova image Jul 21 13:49:51 then run it Jul 21 13:50:22 Oh, alright.. thanks. . will look into that then Jul 21 13:50:23 destinal: anyting new besides catching mojo events? Jul 21 13:50:51 has anyone got custom methods calls working? Jul 21 13:51:02 yes arbitrary js methods Jul 21 13:53:57 off to work, have fun Jul 21 14:07:35 i am moving that onwhenconnected patch into its own little swiss army knive app Jul 21 14:07:52 that way its not touching pre files and I dont have to edit it every webos update Jul 21 14:37:53 btw guys in case no one has said it - thanks for offering this channel and the wiki, learned a lot already just from reading thru the irc logs. Jul 21 14:38:13 welcome Jul 21 14:38:19 pay it forward. Jul 21 14:38:21 edit the wiki Jul 21 14:43:12 nice! dev mode can be enabled/disabled with luna-send Jul 21 14:43:17 * PuffTheMagic writes gui for it Jul 21 14:45:07 jcrawford: re not playing a sound if one is playing: try luna-send -n 100 palm://com.palm.mediaevents/playingStatus '{subscribe:true}', I think it will send you a response.isPlaying set to true or false. Maybe that will apply to notifications as well, I have no idea. Jul 21 14:45:34 drnull: you are the dbus master huh Jul 21 14:45:47 what are you using to find all this out? Jul 21 14:45:49 nah, I was just looking around for my own purposes and stumbled upon that. :) Jul 21 14:45:54 use the source, luke Jul 21 14:46:07 oh so no introspection? Jul 21 14:46:21 nope, just reading through streamingmediaplayer and looking at palmInitMedia.js Jul 21 14:46:37 drnull: i am going to make a little swiss army app for useful luna comamnd and what not Jul 21 14:46:47 that can be manipulated in mojo Jul 21 14:46:48 Did you find your luna-send for enable/disable in the devmode-switcher app? Jul 21 14:46:53 so if you find anything cool Jul 21 14:46:56 yeah i found it Jul 21 14:47:28 luna-send -i palm://com.palm.connectionmanager/setnovacommode '{"isEnabled":true}' Jul 21 14:47:34 luna-send -i palm://com.palm.power/shutdown/machineReboot '{"reason":"User initiated/DevModeSwitcher"}' Jul 21 14:47:47 hehe, nice. :) Jul 21 14:48:15 so i am gonna move the power on option and the dev mode into this one app so i dont touch the screenlock app any more Jul 21 14:48:20 let me know if u get new stuff Jul 21 14:48:30 tragically, dev mode has to be enabled already for novacomm to work, otherwise that would be a great way to turn it on via novaterm. Jul 21 14:48:47 it'd be kinda nice to leave it in screenlock as well. *shrugs* Jul 21 14:48:48 well yes but i turn it on and off alot now Jul 21 14:48:54 and i hate typing in that password Jul 21 14:49:18 drnull: i just thinking touching palm apps is gonna make maintaining them a pain Jul 21 14:49:20 agreed. It's also in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.devmodeswitcher Jul 21 14:50:27 ha... idk how I missed that there Jul 21 14:51:11 has anyone made a mod to make the led's blink when there are notifications? Jul 21 14:52:10 I swear there used to be a wiki page that talked about setting visible to true in appinfo.json to enable that application, can't find it now... Jul 21 14:52:26 I've seen mention of that mod, but I think it only blinked once. Jul 21 14:52:31 i heard about it Jul 21 14:52:50 it was based on bash scripts Jul 21 14:53:21 well for the sake of not touching palm apps im gonna add it to another app Jul 21 14:53:27 even if its sorta redundant Jul 21 15:32:12 hey Jul 21 15:32:32 i want to help moving pages from old wiki to new one can I get some access on old wiki so I can use edit button? Jul 21 15:34:22 ka6sox also has access, I beleive Jul 21 15:39:50 Hang on, en0x. Jul 21 15:44:00 tehnoir: kk Jul 21 15:44:05 no rush Jul 21 16:00:25 bzhou * r10479 optware/trunk/make/tshark.mk: tshark: stage and depend on c-ares Jul 21 16:01:02 notepad++ keeps crashing so I'm converting a page from the browser. Jul 21 16:01:05 Not recommended. Jul 21 16:04:17 why are we using org.webosinternals. instead of org.webos-internals. ????? Jul 21 16:05:33 is anyone working on an ssh client for webos? Jul 21 16:05:39 or even terminal Jul 21 16:10:06 jwm: i hope so :) Jul 21 16:10:08 i want one heh Jul 21 16:14:40 ultraMobile: lol you okay there? Jul 21 16:15:07 Templarian: That was the last restart I think :P Stupid xchat wants me to restart it for every pref change to take effect Jul 21 16:15:24 Sorry for the join leave spam, room! Jul 21 16:20:56 heh Jul 21 16:43:36 where can I find novacom? I'm in linux. I have the webOS.jar unzipped, found the NovacomInstaller.pkg.tar.gz, untarred, but find only postinstall and postupgrade scripts Jul 21 16:45:06 novacomd Jul 21 16:45:09 oops Jul 21 16:45:30 there is a link for it on the sdk website Jul 21 16:45:45 follow the linux instructions Jul 21 16:46:33 jwm: yes Jul 21 16:49:12 terminal is being worked on and the beginnings of it are in git. are you interested in helping out? :) Jul 21 16:49:38 yeah I would love to Jul 21 16:49:39 far from functional at this point but events and javascript function calls between native code and plugins exist Jul 21 16:49:57 well, we're starting a team and would like to make money from some venture Jul 21 16:50:45 jwm: you're trying to make money from some venture? Jul 21 16:50:50 hehe Jul 21 16:50:54 smartphone apps Jul 21 16:50:58 ah Jul 21 16:51:05 I've been with nix and computers for 15 years now Jul 21 16:51:11 haven't made a penny off my experience Jul 21 16:51:20 and I'd like to do this full time finally Jul 21 16:51:22 coding/etc Jul 21 16:51:31 not just smartphones but they're a good start Jul 21 16:51:55 well the terminal itself as well as all the webosinternals stuff is open source, but there's probably money to be made in developing apps or services... Jul 21 16:52:23 actually I'd release our apps opensource too Jul 21 16:52:43 just would like to get them into the app store Jul 21 16:53:10 yeah, I was thinking of a few services in mind Jul 21 16:53:10 interesting, I hadn't considered, but the palm app catalog could be a good way to actually sell OSS software Jul 21 16:53:30 are they going to make for money apps on the store? heh Jul 21 16:53:42 Yea. Jul 21 16:53:47 ok good :) Jul 21 16:54:05 anyone buying your app could redistribute it of course but enough people want the convenience of the catalog that they might buy it direct through the official mechanism if it's good Jul 21 16:54:19 definitely Jul 21 16:54:35 Yea, there are a lot of non tech people that own the device. Jul 21 16:55:34 I'm an opensource guy though heh Jul 21 16:55:53 I know we could make more money if it were closed though Jul 21 16:55:57 As are most people here. hehe. Jul 21 16:55:57 but come on.. it's javascript Jul 21 16:55:59 yeah, there's the myth that you can't sell open source but the FSF is big on pointing out that you can Jul 21 16:56:11 and a phone app store is a great mechanism for that Jul 21 16:56:22 that's my opinion Jul 21 16:56:35 I've been using free nix since 96 or so Jul 21 16:56:45 started out on freebsd actually heh Jul 21 16:57:23 where are the html databases kept Jul 21 16:57:26 i always forget :( Jul 21 16:57:53 Closed source always ends up being better though... lets hope to see some quality things coming out. Jul 21 16:58:32 Templarian, not always true Jul 21 16:58:53 Sargun: always was a bad word. Most of the time. Jul 21 16:59:00 is the current terminal code public? Jul 21 16:59:10 is it on github? Jul 21 16:59:48 oh dur no wonder i couldnt find them Jul 21 16:59:55 i novatermed to the emu instead of device Jul 21 17:00:17 i novatermed to the emu instead of device Jul 21 17:00:49 jwm: what we've got is on our git repository, but it's not really a terminal yet Jul 21 17:01:20 ohh, I see on the website Jul 21 17:01:30 the wasted white space all over the pre apps is rediculous Jul 21 17:01:44 nothing is indented nicely either Jul 21 17:01:49 hehe Jul 21 17:01:55 it all looks indented nicely to me Jul 21 17:01:56 its like 4 year olds wrote these things Jul 21 17:02:07 w/ space not tabs Jul 21 17:02:17 hehe Jul 21 17:02:22 spaces are better than tabs Jul 21 17:02:58 jwm: I cobbled together an npapi proof of concept plugin called "hello plugin", and mrvc figured out getting the key and pen events across from mojo into the c++ code and some other stuff Jul 21 17:03:06 Heya guys, just a quick one. Jul 21 17:03:18 err basicplugin rather, hello plugin is the mojo app wrapping it Jul 21 17:03:26 If I find a patch on the wiki that's plaintext, and not in the quilt patches yet, how do I apply it? Jul 21 17:03:33 e.g. http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/PalmAppMods:screenlock-onWhenConnected Jul 21 17:03:36 destinal: does the pre have touch event processing? Jul 21 17:03:53 I was thinking of running a client/server arch like APE (ape-project.org) Jul 21 17:04:10 destinal: I meant in its javascript code Jul 21 17:04:19 I am part of the developer program I just haven't downloaded the sdk yet Jul 21 17:04:21 jwm: yeah, it's all javascript Jul 21 17:04:22 heh Jul 21 17:04:30 cool Jul 21 17:04:41 I was thinking then just using httprequest events Jul 21 17:04:50 put ape on localhost Jul 21 17:04:55 jwm: in the plugin now we're just taking the mojo event and passing it through via the npruntime stuff into c++ code Jul 21 17:05:14 cool Jul 21 17:05:34 so you want to code most of it in c++ using linux's termlib or something? Jul 21 17:05:40 destinal: is there a way to push an app to the phone via eclise Jul 21 17:05:46 i know it says there is a run on device option Jul 21 17:05:49 but if failed Jul 21 17:05:55 PuffTheMagic: yes, with the eclipse plugin you just "run" Jul 21 17:05:57 does this method need a cert ot something Jul 21 17:06:18 do you have novacomd up and running to the point where palm-install works? Jul 21 17:06:20 hmm gues now Jul 21 17:06:25 idk it worked the second time Jul 21 17:06:29 first time there was an error Jul 21 17:07:09 jwm: possibly, I have no experience writing a linux terminal. Jul 21 17:07:50 I was going to code it in javascript and just send back/forth events to ape to the real terminal hehe Jul 21 17:08:05 I think that would be better than just an ssh client Jul 21 17:08:10 because you could do lots of other apps Jul 21 17:08:58 well you would want to use dbus to a "service" or npapi / npruntime to a "plugin" if you want to talk to local components, not xmlhttprequest Jul 21 17:09:00 I'd also like to be able to set the background to an image and do font shadows :) Jul 21 17:09:17 generally we don't want to run a web server on the pre Jul 21 17:09:23 a dbus term would be easy Jul 21 17:09:40 avoid the whole plugin layer Jul 21 17:09:42 have you seen the ape server? Jul 21 17:09:48 jwm: no Jul 21 17:09:51 it's extremely light Jul 21 17:10:15 still, when we have a perfectly good bus, why http-ize things? Jul 21 17:10:35 so you can code everything in javascript :) Jul 21 17:10:42 you still can Jul 21 17:10:54 mojo is all javascript Jul 21 17:11:43 I suggest digging in a bit to see how webos is architected Jul 21 17:12:29 Did internals ever have the idea of making an internals version of mojo? Jul 21 17:13:00 but basically stuff that reaches outside javascript, rather than ajax, uses dbus calls, there are javascript mechanisms to call exposed service methods and subscribe to response data Jul 21 17:13:43 the local on-phone service can be written in any language so long as it communicates on the dbus properly Jul 21 17:14:04 but all the client side js stuff would still be client side js, just the same as if it were ajax Jul 21 17:14:17 that would be mojo code Jul 21 17:20:01 yeah, I just want to use the same bus/ipc system as our other apps Jul 21 17:23:39 Templarian1: yeah there was that idea floated Jul 21 17:24:01 Templarian1: it's obviously very non-trivial :) Jul 21 17:24:11 i've noticed Classic does the following: sampleAdapterApp.SndCtrl(), i'm guessing it's calling into the plugn, my question is, how do i expose a "function" and/or variable from a plugin so that it's visible from JS? Jul 21 17:24:51 Zuchmir2: check the git repository for basicplugin and the mojo app org.webosinternals.helloplugin for examples Jul 21 17:25:04 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications Jul 21 17:25:41 it's just npruntime but it's easier to read code than the API docs IMO Jul 21 17:26:19 scripting api is the same? Jul 21 17:26:31 i've dowloaded that, and made alot of mods to that, but can't find where to expose additional functions from the plugin Jul 21 17:26:37 tmzt: yeah, pull git to see what I mean Jul 21 17:27:17 right now it's taking pen events from the touchscreen and invoking exposed functions of the plugin to deliver them Jul 21 17:27:30 the plugin then draws them Jul 21 17:27:36 ie a dot at that x, y Jul 21 17:28:34 ok Jul 21 17:28:49 so not plugin events yet? they didn't work? Jul 21 17:29:35 tmzt: only some events actually seem to be delivered by luna. look at classic and you'll see it does much the same as we are Jul 21 17:31:14 anyone know of someone making an on screen keyboard? Jul 21 17:31:15 hehe Jul 21 17:31:17 despite the fact that a lot more event types seem to be defined, we never get them Jul 21 17:31:23 my question is, i want my plugin to dictate the height of the object, at the moment it's being dictated by helloplugin-assistant.js Jul 21 17:31:56 helloPluginApp.height = x, i want that to be variable Jul 21 17:32:30 do you mean the height of the embed or your own custom property? Jul 21 17:33:19 look at Object_SetProperty in basicplugin to see how custom properties work Jul 21 17:33:20 the height of the embed Jul 21 17:33:27 the height of the embed is in the mojo Jul 21 17:34:52 you should be able to set width or height to a value from a variable before replacing the div tag Jul 21 17:35:16 ie ./app/controllers/helloplugin-assistant.js: helloPluginApp.height = 480; Jul 21 17:35:36 just make that a numeric variable instead, I think Jul 21 17:35:39 hmm... can only certain apps use palm:// ? Jul 21 17:35:54 PuffTheMagic: no, but only certain apps can use the private bus Jul 21 17:36:10 what is on the private bus? Jul 21 17:36:24 like how do i know if the method i want to use is on the private bus Jul 21 17:36:26 when you use luna-send it uses the private bus by default Jul 21 17:36:26 +destinal: did you mean: NPN_SetProperty? Jul 21 17:36:34 if you use luna-send -P Jul 21 17:36:40 it'll go on the public bus and you can test it Jul 21 17:36:43 oh... Jul 21 17:37:19 do you know how to get on the private bus? Jul 21 17:37:27 only apps with a namespace in com.palm.* have their messages sent on the private bus Jul 21 17:37:55 oh Jul 21 17:37:57 until we figure out what makes a namespace special (and hopefully it's not just hard-coded) it seems you have change your namespace to com.palm.foo Jul 21 17:38:03 oh Jul 21 17:38:05 i want myPlugin to calculate the height, and tell the JS what to use there Jul 21 17:38:06 :( Jul 21 17:38:07 thats in /etc/dbus-1/ Jul 21 17:38:11 easy to change Jul 21 17:38:13 i think Jul 21 17:38:15 let me check Jul 21 17:38:20 ok that would be good Jul 21 17:39:01 yea Jul 21 17:39:08 wb all :) Jul 21 17:39:16 wb all :) Jul 21 17:39:21 can anyone contribute to Mojo or is that closed to public contributions? Jul 21 17:39:24 Zuchmir2: you can't make the plugin calculate the height of its embed afaik because it's not instantiated when you define it. It may be possible to have it change while a plugin is running but I have no idea Jul 21 17:39:49 jcrawford: closed Jul 21 17:40:30 I would try making a plugin and then changing its height in javascript to see if that even works Jul 21 17:40:49 if it does you could communicate between the js and the plugin to get its desired value and set it I imagine Jul 21 17:41:00 hmm nothing good in /etc/dbus-1 Jul 21 17:41:03 don't know if the plugin can access that property directly Jul 21 17:42:17 lunch & bbl Jul 21 17:43:22 shit so you cannot even see the source? Jul 21 17:45:18 do NOT egrep -r on / on the pre Jul 21 17:45:23 it does NOT like it Jul 21 17:47:01 +destinal: i've already done that, drawEvent->srcTop / drawEvent->srcBottom indicate "where" in the "plugin-page" the user is viewing Jul 21 17:47:22 what does src mean then? Jul 21 17:48:21 also, in NPP_SetWindow(), window->width / window->height Jul 21 17:49:30 src = source (say for example the plugin displays an BMP, the BMP is the SRC, and the srcTop = which line in the BMP to start from Jul 21 17:51:11 jcrawford no Jul 21 17:51:13 well Jul 21 17:51:16 not all of it Jul 21 17:51:18 parts Jul 21 17:51:25 and since LOTS is java Jul 21 17:51:31 and lots and lots is javascript Jul 21 17:51:34 you can see all that. Jul 21 17:51:37 but .... Jul 21 17:52:12 but... Jul 21 17:52:27 but it's closed. Jul 21 17:52:29 i was just wondering because if it were open i am sure there would be many more widgets to use Jul 21 17:52:42 which is why people like des are reverse engineering the plugins. Jul 21 17:52:55 one such that i want developed is a checkbox in a list so that when you are in mail/contacts you can select multiple and delete them all at once Jul 21 17:53:14 jcrawford there's nothing that prevents you from doing that... Jul 21 17:53:26 aamof, checkboxes in lists aresupported. Jul 21 17:53:39 Rick_: oh i thought a new widget would have to be created since they did not do it in their own apps Jul 21 17:53:45 but writing widgets isn't that hard.... Jul 21 17:53:51 they really need to push app updates and get all those fixed lol Jul 21 17:54:04 aamof? Jul 21 17:54:06 The source code for the widgits is mostly javascript and mostly available in the foundation classes. Jul 21 17:54:55 anything can be shoved into a list Jul 21 17:55:24 i havent been able to understand how to use widgets in a list yet though so :/ Jul 21 17:55:26 if the plugin could communicate/set the height, the plugin can resize to size of BMP Jul 21 17:55:30 its definately possible though Jul 21 17:55:32 WHOO HOOO!!! Jul 21 17:55:40 my crappy chess program hit the front page of precentral Jul 21 17:55:53 rick: nice Jul 21 17:55:55 congrats Jul 21 17:56:56 * jcrawford checks Jul 21 18:02:19 hallo Jul 21 18:03:00 ohaithar Jul 21 18:03:38 hello Jul 21 18:03:42 welcome Jul 21 18:03:45 hi Jul 21 18:04:56 nice friendly texts here Jul 21 18:05:39 what'sup? Jul 21 18:05:53 just joining the party Jul 21 18:06:13 Figured this is where I belong Jul 21 18:06:14 ;) Jul 21 18:06:16 brb Jul 21 18:06:41 have you been working on the Pre? what are you interested in? Jul 21 18:06:50 any special knowledge we can grab? Jul 21 18:08:13 mostly disecting it right now, small changes here and there. Jul 21 18:08:20 Been diving into the kernel Jul 21 18:08:36 I think they can do a much better job stream lining it Jul 21 18:08:49 sure Jul 21 18:08:52 what have you found? Jul 21 18:09:18 Dotel_Center: yeah the kernel is half-baked Jul 21 18:09:58 not alot, havn't had the time, except for alot of support for things I don't think will ever be used Jul 21 18:09:58 like? Jul 21 18:09:58 Dotel_Center: that dont matter too much Jul 21 18:09:58 we are talking about a few kb extra mem Jul 21 18:09:58 looks like they branched from the vanilla kernel, and only tweaked it slightly Jul 21 18:10:03 its 2.6.24 with omap v3 support patched in Jul 21 18:10:11 which i think is in upstream already Jul 21 18:10:26 brb Jul 21 18:11:08 yeah Jul 21 18:15:00 yeah, we didn't get enough time to polish it off Jul 21 18:15:06 it was based on the at then current omap patch set Jul 21 18:16:06 unforunately the community seems to have gone i a different direction since then Jul 21 18:16:06 at some point we got so tired of dealing with the deltas that we just branched the mach-omap3 directory into mach-omap3pe Jul 21 18:16:06 etc Jul 21 18:16:06 we're having to deal with that now, get it all cleaned up Jul 21 18:16:06 geist: are you a palm dev Jul 21 18:16:06 yes, kernel team Jul 21 18:16:06 is there a git repo for this? Jul 21 18:16:08 no Jul 21 18:16:08 :/ Jul 21 18:16:25 stay tuned though, that will change Jul 21 18:16:25 good Jul 21 18:16:30 Really! Good news! Jul 21 18:16:40 you make certain concessions for 1.0, get it out the door, etc Jul 21 18:16:47 right... Jul 21 18:16:48 true enough. Jul 21 18:16:59 1.1 is a BIG improvement in so many ways. Jul 21 18:17:06 anxious to get it on my PHONE.... Jul 21 18:17:43 is there a list? Jul 21 18:17:48 of changes Jul 21 18:20:06 so geist, are you going to re-merge with the omap main line, or going to keep off on your own? Jul 21 18:21:17 yay netsplit Jul 21 18:31:17 does virtualbox 3.x work with the sdk? Jul 21 18:31:26 yup Jul 21 18:31:30 cool Jul 21 18:31:44 do I need the pre connected to the computer that runs the sdk? Jul 21 18:31:51 drnull: you come up with anything new luna-send wise Jul 21 18:31:57 or could I run the software on say a linux server Jul 21 18:31:59 jwm: no Jul 21 18:32:06 cool Jul 21 18:32:09 well... Jul 21 18:32:10 jwm --not yet. Jul 21 18:32:32 I was wondering if kvm would work instead of virtualbox Jul 21 18:32:53 jwm, there's a product called "palm host" that runs a luna environment on apache, which lets you test and debug luna apps with any webkit browser and not just the emulator. Jul 21 18:33:07 But this has not yet been released to the public,although it'smentioned in the docs.... Jul 21 18:33:24 * Rick_ spacebar sucks Jul 21 18:34:19 I'll see if it works with kvm first Jul 21 18:34:24 I'd rather run the emulator on the server Jul 21 18:35:23 I wish they packaged it as a tgz instead of a deb Jul 21 18:35:24 hehe Jul 21 18:36:02 Heya jwm, do you know how to apply patches from a file such as http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/PalmAppMods:screenlock-onWhenConnected ? Jul 21 18:36:25 yeah Jul 21 18:36:26 just use patch Jul 21 18:36:27 you have to copy it to a file Jul 21 18:36:56 --- a/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/controllers/securityconfig-assistant.js Jul 21 18:36:59 +++ b/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/controllers/securityconfig-assistant.js Jul 21 18:37:05 this will bust your patch command Jul 21 18:37:19 remove b before /usr.... Jul 21 18:37:27 just do patch -p1 Jul 21 18:37:39 strips the first dir Jul 21 18:37:57 Alrighty Jul 21 18:38:25 well Jul 21 18:38:32 I see in the Decrypt SSL (rusted man in the middle technique) how-to that the Pre can be told to trust certain certificates. how is this different than using the Certificate Manager? Jul 21 18:38:32 or youi can do like jwm said :) Jul 21 18:38:37 strips the first slash but in this case there is no slash so first dir hehe Jul 21 18:39:20 [; Jul 21 18:40:09 Okay, here's one Jul 21 18:41:25 If I throw it in /opt/src/modifications, can I push and pop it with quilt with the rest of the patches? Jul 21 18:41:39 idk i don't use quilt Jul 21 18:46:31 I just made a backup/restore guide for the wiki: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Backing_Up_via_Rsync Jul 21 18:47:25 :D Jul 21 18:47:30 nice rsync ftw! Jul 21 18:47:51 will one of you guys add my username to gitorious Jul 21 18:49:11 @jwm can you review the page titled Diff ? I am unsure about the patch section - would welcome your improvements Jul 21 18:52:12 do i need to initialise something to access NPN_Version() ? Jul 21 18:53:22 within HandleDrawEvent() i try: NPN_Version(&plugin_major, &plugin_minor, &netscape_major, &netscape_minor); and that causes a reboot Jul 21 18:57:51 before I go digging... does anyone know if its possible to manipulate the LEDs in a mojo app Jul 21 18:58:27 no Jul 21 18:59:05 blau-mikeDG: was that to me? and no it cant be done or no u dont know Jul 21 19:01:54 yes Jul 21 19:02:00 LOL Jul 21 19:02:15 im pretty sure it cant be done Jul 21 19:02:18 * Dotel_Center tosses a salmon at blau Jul 21 19:02:19 :) Jul 21 19:02:20 thru js Jul 21 19:03:00 I agree with blau, tho I don't think it will be long before we see some kind of platform "shiv" alowing more hardware access via mojo Jul 21 19:03:22 yeah i think we are gonna see some "rooted" apps come out soon Jul 21 19:03:41 anything fun going on? Jul 21 19:03:51 im continuing to work on OFX crap Jul 21 19:04:04 financial? Jul 21 19:04:08 and came up with a potentially awesome way to reconcile apps Jul 21 19:04:10 tmzt: yeah Jul 21 19:04:24 for what desktop software? Jul 21 19:04:29 reconcile transactions i mean Jul 21 19:04:37 ah Jul 21 19:04:39 okay Jul 21 19:04:51 to pull financial transactions from your banking institutions Jul 21 19:04:54 onto the pre Jul 21 19:04:55 right Jul 21 19:05:19 you might need a browser plugin/mime type then Jul 21 19:05:30 or dbus Jul 21 19:05:30 so far its looking good Jul 21 19:05:34 for some websites Jul 21 19:05:47 i got it working for chase on my cc and checking Jul 21 19:06:00 no, I mean to detect when an ofx/qfx/qif is downloaded Jul 21 19:06:11 but yeah, you are parsing in javascript? Jul 21 19:06:22 it does the ofx download and parsing Jul 21 19:07:58 although for crappy sites, it might be nice to be able to naviagte to the webpage download area and get the file that way Jul 21 19:09:01 so OFX is a one-way thing, just basically an xml doc of your financial transactions? Jul 21 19:09:11 I can say at least key works like that Jul 21 19:09:17 blau : Just asking, but I'd be concerned about PCI compliance... is it all secure including the logon and 128-bit & on SSL3 or better along the transaction? Jul 21 19:09:20 it's two way but i dont think many insitutions let you send stuff Jul 21 19:09:30 and has limited time ranges, and less than useful filenames Jul 21 19:09:35 (like account.ofx) Jul 21 19:09:40 FreeTim3: that is up to the service provider / bank Jul 21 19:09:50 most of it's over https Jul 21 19:09:54 he's just working on a client Jul 21 19:10:04 SSL3 is TLS1 isn't it? Jul 21 19:10:07 my only concern would be storing the passwords if the user wants to do that Jul 21 19:10:08 right, but the client also can't save data unencrypted, is my understanding Jul 21 19:10:21 TLS1 is better than SSL3... both are better than SSL2 Jul 21 19:10:23 tmzt: no, TLS what could be considered SSL4 Jul 21 19:10:53 huh, I thought netscape refered to it as ssl3 in places Jul 21 19:11:09 tmzt: there's a seperate sslv3 Jul 21 19:11:38 okay Jul 21 19:12:00 TLSv3.1 is the actual protocol... they call it TLS1 for short.. And then differently SSL3 is an older one... it's good though.... and then SSL2 is ancient these days and not very secure Jul 21 19:12:47 Use TLS if you have a choice about it, these days most places support it Jul 21 19:12:52 FreeTim3: it's not the customer's job to be pci compliant, and anyway it's not really pci probably since it's more like a financial statement. it's sensitive data and it might be good to encrypt it on the flash if it's being stored though Jul 21 19:13:11 or I guess I should say, just don't allow SSL2 :) Jul 21 19:13:17 @destinal agree with you Jul 21 19:13:59 i dont really have to worry about encryption though Jul 21 19:14:06 im just going to steal all their info anyway Jul 21 19:14:13 lol Jul 21 19:14:14 it doesnt make a difference if someone else gets it too Jul 21 19:14:23 a nice backdoor? Jul 21 19:15:10 geist: do you know off hand what the maximum value for the led brightness is? Jul 21 19:15:57 i dont want to set it too high Jul 21 19:15:57 where? Jul 21 19:15:58 1 Jul 21 19:16:32 /sys/bus/i2c/devices/3-0032/leds\:core_navi_center/brightness Jul 21 19:16:34 for example Jul 21 19:16:40 blau-mikeDG: its not 1 Jul 21 19:16:44 its a range Jul 21 19:16:54 10-15 Jul 21 19:16:55 :P Jul 21 19:17:10 usally 255, but not alwasys Jul 21 19:17:10 so tomorrow will be webos 1.1? ha? Jul 21 19:17:21 i dont need guesses... i can look at the patch and check im just lazy Jul 21 19:17:35 1-2 Jul 21 19:17:51 puff, i think around 90 to 128 was the top range i was getting ? Jul 21 19:18:08 bpadalino: k Jul 21 19:18:16 * PuffTheMagic checks source code anyway Jul 21 19:21:31 haha so i had my palm pre replaced right Jul 21 19:21:37 they sent me a brand new one now i got all of it haha Jul 21 19:21:52 wow... there is no max set in the kernel code Jul 21 19:22:00 thats scary Jul 21 19:23:03 eh, it's probably fine Jul 21 19:23:44 so now time to write a sysctrl plugin Jul 21 19:24:03 puff the magic dragon lived by the sea... Jul 21 19:25:28 hmmm nm... forget sysctrl is for /proc/sys not /sys Jul 21 19:26:13 systool is what i need Jul 21 19:28:01 you can't just echo and cat ? Jul 21 19:28:36 sure I could echo... but why not use libsysfs :D Jul 21 19:28:42 would be more secure woudlnt it Jul 21 19:28:50 how? Jul 21 19:28:59 how what? Jul 21 19:29:13 how would it be more secure? Jul 21 19:29:16 i would have to use some code that executes arbitrary commands Jul 21 19:29:23 instead of just making sysfs calls Jul 21 19:29:32 which people couldnt abuse as much Jul 21 19:29:32 open, write Jul 21 19:31:18 or that ... Jul 21 19:31:30 :D Jul 21 19:33:04 well im sure there is some reason to use libsysfs or they wouldnt have made it Jul 21 19:43:11 http://download.boulder.ibm.com/ibmdl/pub/software/dw/library/os-ltc-kernel/libsysfs-lca-prez.pdf - good overview of why libsysfs exists Jul 21 19:47:56 Whata up yall? Jul 21 19:49:10 hi Joesmith Jul 21 19:51:07 just a side note... someone should add .so and .o to the .gitignore file Jul 21 19:51:18 there is no reason we need to have binary objects in the repo Jul 21 19:56:16 about time the damn thing updates Jul 21 20:00:00 Is there a maximum file size for videos? Jul 21 20:00:07 See I encoded a video with handbrake using the ipod touch presets and its not playing Jul 21 20:02:14 Bsims: how large is it? Jul 21 20:02:49 Bsims: I used handbrake and have convered quite a few videos usually around 1hour and 30 minutes each. Jul 21 20:03:25 Just under a gig... 2hrs 20 minutes Jul 21 20:03:36 this file is just under a gig, and I have a case number with palm but they are being useless Jul 21 20:03:40 I may retransfer it, maybe it got corrupted Jul 21 20:03:41 on vfat? Jul 21 20:03:46 proably 2gb Jul 21 20:03:56 or is that still true with fat32? Jul 21 20:03:58 tmzt: shows as 900meg on the pre Jul 21 20:04:03 Bsims: make sure you encoded it correctly. Jul 21 20:04:21 Templarian: I used handbrake with ipod touch preset Jul 21 20:04:22 I encoded mine in h.264 at 480x320. Jul 21 20:04:27 Hey all, was just curious if there is a way to launch a shell directly on the device without usb after accessing linux? Jul 21 20:04:40 Bsims: use a small video file and test it. Jul 21 20:04:46 Finder: not yet, except the ajax shells Jul 21 20:04:53 ok, thanks Jul 21 20:05:01 Ahh that could be I forced the 480 and let it maintain aspect ratio rather than forcing it to 480x320 Jul 21 20:05:35 Bsims: it can't be more than 320... there is a limit of 480x320 for the device. Jul 21 20:05:59 I was hoping it would scale Jul 21 20:06:12 Bsims: force both to a fixed width and height... scaled good for my widescreens. Jul 21 20:06:25 Bsims: it won't scale it I think. Jul 21 20:06:36 s/it/the pre/ Jul 21 20:06:37 Templarian meant: Bsims: the pre won't scale it I think. Jul 21 20:06:42 * Bsims nods Jul 21 20:07:01 I'd really love to have ssh client or even better sftp over wireless Jul 21 20:07:15 Or at least a file browser on this thing Jul 21 20:07:43 Bsims: thats what I do lol. Jul 21 20:07:54 Bsims: I store them and watch them over wifi usually. Jul 21 20:09:01 I am talking for transfer on the go Jul 21 20:09:07 It will stream perfectly at 480x320 for a 550mb 1h and 30min movie over 3g (if you don't care about taking a hit to your data for the month) Jul 21 20:12:08 Heh I can't wait till we get some more apps on this thing Jul 21 20:13:08 Bsims: you know there are a lot apps avalible to devs right? Jul 21 20:13:25 Hrm I may have to sign up Jul 21 20:13:34 anything really compelling so far? Jul 21 20:13:51 I know I am still on the sprint developer network Jul 21 20:13:54 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:webOS_Applications (it's still be converted) Jul 21 20:14:15 Theres a few nice games. Jul 21 20:15:06 Nothing to amazing yet, just small remakes of other games. The real games will come later. Jul 21 20:17:07 * Bsims nods any rumors on when the next update comes out? Jul 21 20:19:47 Bsims: is it difficult to get access to the Sprint Dev network? Jul 21 20:19:50 Bsims: "soon", no one knows now that the nda is lifted everyone just has rumors. Jul 21 20:20:39 Bsims: no need to duplicate all questions to each channel lol. Jul 21 20:21:45 hopspitfire: not really, you just give them your email address Jul 21 20:22:07 hopspitfire: I know I had developer root on my old fusic... Jul 21 20:22:31 Hell, sprint gave me the password over the phone, even before I was on the deveoper network Jul 21 20:22:36 here's a question Jul 21 20:22:51 why do i want /opt on a lo device in /media/internal, rather than /var/opt ? Jul 21 20:23:35 hopspitfire: https://developer.sprint.com/ssl/user/RegisterUser.jsp Jul 21 20:24:06 raeb: You'll have major problems when connecting via USB since the device is supposed to unmount /media/internal Jul 21 20:24:27 Bsims: Thanks Jul 21 20:25:17 hopspitfire: see I signed up because I wanted to use mobile gmaps, and I needed to run unsigned aplications Jul 21 20:25:17 raeb: I'm not completely sure though Jul 21 20:25:40 /var/ is for stuff like system logs Jul 21 20:26:12 its stuff that lasts longer than a reboot but changes often... at least on a regular linux box Jul 21 20:26:47 http://tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/ Jul 21 20:27:41 Bsims: Ah that makes sense. Does Sprint have documentation for the Pre on the dev site? Jul 21 20:28:46 dunno not looked there in ages Jul 21 20:29:41 hmm Jul 21 20:31:46 Nope nothing on the pre Jul 21 20:32:49 Bsims: that's no fun :/ Jul 21 20:33:15 hehe I know Jul 21 20:33:53 ya don't need to be registered to see the specs and such Jul 21 20:34:22 I registered anyway, I'm poking around Jul 21 20:34:58 bingo found it Jul 21 20:35:14 Camera Details Jul 21 20:35:14 * Maximum Resolution (list in pixels) Jul 21 20:35:14 o 2048x1536 Jul 21 20:35:14 * Mega Pixel Jul 21 20:35:14 o 3.2 Jul 21 20:35:29 woot Jul 21 20:35:45 and according to sprint it supports java j2me Jul 21 20:35:51 its not a bad camera Jul 21 20:35:56 but we've not seen any thing on it Jul 21 20:35:59 i took a photo of my sushi the other day, looked pretty good Jul 21 20:36:56 A cell phone camera with optical zoom would be incredible Jul 21 20:36:57 # Optical Zoom: No Jul 21 20:36:57 # Auto Focus: No Jul 21 20:38:12 ya know I've never tried installing a j2me app on the pre... Jul 21 20:38:37 Software Jul 21 20:38:37 * J2ME Characteristics Jul 21 20:38:37 o Java support: Yes Jul 21 20:41:21 it sucks how much crap you have to install for the sdk to run Jul 21 20:41:21 hehe Jul 21 20:41:46 tell me about it.. It took me almost an hour to get the sdk working in my windoz Jul 21 20:41:57 I'm getting Error claiming interface 1: -16 when trying to run novacom...any ideas? Jul 21 20:42:21 novacomd running? Jul 21 20:42:35 or novacom service, if in windows Jul 21 20:43:12 yes it is Jul 21 20:43:23 Palm's novacomd, right? Jul 21 20:43:27 yeh Jul 21 20:46:30 Hrm dumb question I know you can't download on a non hacked pre... anyone try to install midpssh.jar? Jul 21 20:46:47 I did all the work in http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation, now I want to upload/flash that file, but having the hardest time figuring out how to do it Jul 21 20:47:00 I got the SDK install, where do I go from there? Jul 21 20:50:57 bzhou * r10480 optware/trunk/platforms/packages-vt4.mk: packages-vt4: demoted ulogd Jul 21 20:57:22 hmm Jul 21 21:00:02 anyone done the palm profile thing inside the vm? Jul 21 21:00:03 hehe Jul 21 21:19:30 i have a highly modified basicplugin, is there somewhere to upload it? Jul 21 21:22:15 folks Jul 21 21:22:23 Zuchmir2: how modified? modified enough to require its own separate project or just enhancements along the demonstration plugin theme? Jul 21 21:22:26 * bhuey loves it that the homegrown community is so active Jul 21 21:22:52 jwm: odd, the silence. Jul 21 21:23:11 but but but Jul 21 21:23:17 I've never tried setting up a profile in the emulator, wasn't sure you could Jul 21 21:23:20 pre's are being returned 33% of the time! Jul 21 21:23:25 and 40% of them have manufacturing defects! Jul 21 21:23:33 and there's only 678 really hardcore/true fans! Jul 21 21:23:35 ;) Jul 21 21:24:05 Zuchmir2: either way we can host it on the git repo Jul 21 21:25:32 +destinal: added "color" and "Scrolling", and resizing from within the plugin (currently it's hardcoded - proof of concept) Jul 21 21:25:36 +destinal: ok, i will clean it up, and then deal w/it Jul 21 21:27:09 also compiles with cross-compiler Jul 21 21:27:33 Zuchmir2: excellent. /msg'd Jul 21 21:29:45 destinal: it worked and it even emailed me hehe Jul 21 21:32:55 jwm: ah, ok, cool Jul 21 21:33:24 jwm: did you just run firstuse? Jul 21 21:33:37 or add it in one of the apps? Jul 21 21:36:39 yeah, just firstuse Jul 21 21:36:51 I couldn't figure out how to get out of it so I had to go ahead with it hehe Jul 21 21:40:01 you could hit escape and toss the card I think, but maybe not Jul 21 21:40:57 not with that one Jul 21 21:49:12 yyyyyyyyyyyo Jul 21 21:49:49 anyone about? Jul 21 21:53:52 rwhitby, I added instructions for devs when posting their apps at precentral per your request Jul 21 21:54:08 oops Jul 21 21:54:17 sorry Jul 21 21:55:52 DarthPooh: thx Jul 21 21:56:42 rwhitby, np, shoulda been done from the beginning, I am not sure how many devs will go back and edit, but at least going forward we can enforce it more closely. Jul 21 21:58:37 also I attempted to clear up the NRR, RR, rooting issue, but yano how things get started. Jul 21 21:58:51 bzhou * r10481 optware/trunk/make/9base.mk: 9base: corrected download Jul 21 21:59:18 PuffTheMagic: Re: org.webosinternals vs org.webos-internals - java conventions don't allow hyphens in those names Jul 21 21:59:25 DarthPooh: line 3 seems to have some extra negatives in it. either way it's not clear what is required "now" Jul 21 21:59:33 I was wondering, should I install any of the overclock patches found in the quilt package? Jul 21 21:59:39 thanks, I will correct. Jul 21 21:59:40 PuffTheMagic: Re: org.webosinternals vs org.webos-internals - we also now have org.preware.* for apps that have been submitted to preware Jul 21 22:00:56 and somewhere instructions on how to install applications when you have command line access Jul 21 22:01:32 hey rwhitby Jul 21 22:01:47 i ran those scripts this morning Jul 21 22:01:50 all error free Jul 21 22:01:54 thanks for changing them Jul 21 22:02:22 gordian: cool, thanks for letting me know. how's the wiki page going? Jul 21 22:02:35 umm Jul 21 22:02:42 well you mooted the issue, i thought Jul 21 22:02:52 hey, i was browsing the new wiki, and a lot of links were broken because it was trying to take me to the "edit" page Jul 21 22:03:01 shall i still create one detailing the steps to create a virtual drive? Jul 21 22:03:11 i can do that, no problemo Jul 21 22:03:38 on here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setting_up_optware_feed Jul 21 22:03:57 gordian: yes please. Templarian or Rick_ will let you know the best place for a tutorial on how to add a second virtual drive to the emulator to give more space. Jul 21 22:04:01 rwhitby: i don't have any info on how to add to the wiki yet from Rick, though Jul 21 22:04:12 ok Jul 21 22:05:11 PullingJ_, the framework is being put together. if you have content to add to those pages you are being sent to the edit page then by all means help filling in the information. Jul 21 22:05:51 ka6sox: no content to add, i was just trying to follow through the wiki and it was taking me to the edit page instead of the actual destination Jul 21 22:06:23 PullingJ_, please proofread... I had someone do it earlier, shows you have reliable Dieter is ;) Jul 21 22:06:41 DarthPooh: i'll take a look Jul 21 22:07:19 thanks Jul 21 22:08:29 DarthPooh: that line looks better, i'll look at the rest more in a bit Jul 21 22:09:28 thanks... appreciate it Jul 21 22:09:31 PuffTheMagic: what's your username for gitorious? Jul 21 22:22:32 hmm an unprivleged user on a fone with sudo? Jul 21 22:22:51 seems like a hassle for not much gain Jul 21 22:24:06 saves accidental bad typing Jul 21 22:24:24 perhaps Jul 21 22:24:25 but if you've never ACCIDENTALLY typed the wrong path, then don't bother Jul 21 22:24:40 me, I'm glad for the safety Jul 21 22:24:43 but if i sudo somecommand /wrongpath Jul 21 22:24:46 i'll still just type my password Jul 21 22:24:59 yeah, but I know to be careful if Im sudoing. Jul 21 22:25:04 that makes sense Jul 21 22:25:10 again, it's an attitudinal thing Jul 21 22:25:46 raeb: anyone who knows better will just install ssh keys for root and use that. Jul 21 22:25:49 then again, be careful always isn't a bad idea Jul 21 22:25:51 thats what i do Jul 21 22:25:59 ssh key, disable password login on anything but usbnet Jul 21 22:26:01 if someone doesn't now how to do that, then they get sudo to keep them safe Jul 21 22:27:40 in essence, the default instructions are not intended for the people who know how to do things better/easier ... Jul 21 22:28:07 (since they will do things the way they are used to anyway) Jul 21 22:31:03 true Jul 21 22:31:19 however, what about an advanced guide on the wiki Jul 21 22:35:02 raeb: FWIW, I agree with you. I think the people who can't handle direct root are the people who should be using gui tools and not a direct shell Jul 21 22:35:07 now if we only had the gui tools done :P Jul 21 22:35:13 hehe Jul 21 22:36:10 I can't tell you how many zillions of people come in trying to figure out what the heck with sudoing inside winscp.. sudoing INSIDE winscp, dear gods. Jul 21 22:37:24 rwhitby: I know we have this slight difference in approach but I'd just give them root and if they don't know what they're doing, they'll break something. they will anyway, alas. Jul 21 22:37:35 it worked for iphone Jul 21 22:37:59 rofl Jul 21 22:38:11 destinal: I'm happy for the instructions to set up direct root access via ssh keys. Jul 21 22:38:34 destinal: the thing I am against is setting people up with root password login on the internet when they don't know what they are doing. Jul 21 22:39:16 oh, well, yeah, exposing ssh to the internet on one of these things at all is dumb, IMO Jul 21 22:39:17 it seemed to be deemed by consensus that sudo was easier for a newbie than ssh keys. Jul 21 22:39:29 I think sudo is much harder Jul 21 22:39:36 I do to. Jul 21 22:40:01 I'd prefer we teach people to use SSH properly, with agent forwarding, and passphrases on private keys. Jul 21 22:40:33 rwhitby: I'd prefer we avoid ssh for the majority Jul 21 22:40:58 destinal: that too, but at the moment, root access is required for a lot of things. Jul 21 22:41:02 if we get the right tools in place, they won't need a root shell Jul 21 22:41:05 I agree we're not there yet Jul 21 22:41:32 but when we get there, much less carnage :) Jul 21 22:43:05 though Jul 21 22:43:11 has there been reports of carnage thus far Jul 21 22:46:13 well much less questions in here on how to do basic linux things Jul 21 22:46:16 :) Jul 21 22:46:45 s/less/fewer/ Jul 21 22:47:24 Blame/credit the wiki. :) Jul 21 22:47:30 hey, learning basic linux isn't a bad thing Jul 21 22:47:32 has anyone tested (extensively) the benefits of the overclocking patches for quilt? Jul 21 22:47:39 and if having a pre facilitates that Jul 21 22:47:40 there will always be people who want to get root and don't know how to do it Jul 21 22:47:49 more power to the newbs Jul 21 22:47:55 we should teach them the right ways to do things Jul 21 22:48:09 * rwhitby bbiab (1h) Jul 21 22:48:10 Hey all, I can't get the novacom term from the git repos to work...is there any reason to not use /opts/Palm/novacom/novaterm ? Jul 21 22:48:14 yeah, and if they break it, they can fix it, what better way to learn Jul 21 22:48:43 Finder1: if it works, then use it Jul 21 22:48:57 raeb: it does, gives me a nice root term. Thanks. :) Jul 21 22:50:23 rwhitby: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Adding_Disks_to_the_Emulator Jul 21 22:50:44 also threw in a link to the page in http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Jul 21 22:52:59 awesome job on all of this, guys...have to say seeing your site and getting to linux got me really excited about developing for and using the pre. :) Jul 21 22:53:08 so it was fun to be able to copy my c# executable made with visual studio (.net 3.5) to my device and run it Jul 21 22:53:13 with mono Jul 21 22:54:04 hope it can run python ok Jul 21 22:54:07 no one runs CPU scaling? Jul 21 22:55:37 gordian: awesome Jul 21 22:56:02 so now they just add it, run bootstrap and they're off to the races? Jul 21 22:56:06 very cool Jul 21 22:56:10 yup Jul 21 22:57:15 raeb: you've got mono running? Jul 21 22:58:40 yeah Jul 21 22:58:44 easy peasy Jul 21 22:59:00 its in optware Jul 21 22:59:05 then copy your .exe over Jul 21 22:59:09 and mono your.exe Jul 21 22:59:16 Hello world, from .net! Jul 21 22:59:33 there is dbus libraries for .net allowing you to communicate with mojo apps Jul 21 23:00:23 No kidding. Jul 21 23:00:53 yeah, write your front end in mojo, back end in .net Jul 21 23:01:04 sounds like a good time if you ask me Jul 21 23:01:26 That's actually freakin' awesome. Jul 21 23:01:43 all fun high level platform goodness Jul 21 23:01:50 even if it does mean joining the dark side Jul 21 23:01:52 theres a project in git Jul 21 23:02:00 visual studio, monodeveloper, and eclipse compatible Jul 21 23:02:05 well I guess mono is OSS, so it's just flirting with the dark side Jul 21 23:02:13 rofl Jul 21 23:02:15 and Jul 21 23:02:21 microsoft has commited to releasing all its .net source code Jul 21 23:02:22 and has Jul 21 23:02:42 They're not so dark any more. I kinda know "from the inside", if you know what I mean. Jul 21 23:02:52 rofl, they got a creamy center Jul 21 23:02:54 is what your'e saying Jul 21 23:03:20 They cut out the performance bonuses this year, so not any more. Jul 21 23:03:34 i'm working on getting mono remote debugger working, so i'll have f5/play support in visual studio Jul 21 23:04:00 I mean merit raises. Same thing. Extra money. Whatever. Jul 21 23:04:01 emulator or device required, obviously Jul 21 23:04:13 yeah merit, the standard raise Jul 21 23:04:19 u get it for workin here Jul 21 23:04:34 Yeah. For FY09 they cut 'em out. Jul 21 23:05:22 Question: Even though the SDK doesn't say anything about it, what's Palm's position on native apps? Jul 21 23:06:20 well the phone runs linux, linux is open source Jul 21 23:06:33 I mean, interacting with the GUI. Jul 21 23:06:34 which hopefully implies the device is open Jul 21 23:06:44 Like Classic, which uses a plugin. Jul 21 23:06:54 well thats the question isn't it Jul 21 23:07:04 is luna OSS Jul 21 23:07:22 and bound by the licenses of its parent container (linux) Jul 21 23:07:56 rboatright are you around? Jul 21 23:08:36 I don't think so. The Linux mods, sure. Kernel mods and whatnot, already open source. Jul 21 23:08:43 But luna? Not so sure. Jul 21 23:09:05 not that it has to be open to write gui apps for it Jul 21 23:09:32 u could always email palm's opensource folks see what they say Jul 21 23:09:33 No. But a backend API would be nice. Jul 21 23:09:53 you could write a replacement for luna Jul 21 23:10:25 You know. That's very true. But wouldn't that be reinventing the wheel? Jul 21 23:10:53 isn't webOS just basically a web browser that has alot of functionality? Jul 21 23:11:17 webos is an architecture implemented on a linux core and userland Jul 21 23:11:42 then, luna is the "web browser" Jul 21 23:15:25 kind of Jul 21 23:15:46 their actual "web browser app" is just a plugin inside the real browser which is part of Luna, yeah Jul 21 23:16:23 well the app is mojo embedding a plugin to be exact Jul 21 23:16:36 k, thats roughly what I thought, just curious. Jul 21 23:16:46 but there's more to webos Jul 21 23:16:59 upstart, dbus, alsa, pulseaudio Jul 21 23:17:06 and lots more Jul 21 23:17:38 the biggest thing is that they have back-end services which talk to mojo apps over dbus Jul 21 23:17:52 i still think it needs a command line phone daemon Jul 21 23:17:54 but those run along side luna on linux, right? Jul 21 23:17:58 yes Jul 21 23:17:58 # phone-answer Jul 21 23:18:14 broadcast from system: phone ringing! Jul 21 23:18:15 hehe Jul 21 23:18:18 hehe Jul 21 23:19:46 do you still need ppl to help move over old wiki pages? Jul 21 23:20:34 last i checked they do Jul 21 23:22:23 rwhitby you around? Jul 21 23:23:19 gordian: according to his last message he expects to be back in ~25 minutes Jul 21 23:24:00 but of course he may get creative and stay away longer. :P Jul 21 23:25:45 ahh Jul 21 23:25:55 good call Jul 21 23:26:15 has anyone tried the "Character Counter" mod? I tried it and it didn't work and I haven't heard of anyone else getting it to work. I mssg'd the creator but he hasn't responded. Jul 21 23:27:21 hmm Jul 21 23:27:36 the bootstrap didn't appear to install sudo on the emu Jul 21 23:39:15 grrrr Jul 21 23:41:56 gordian: you don't need sudo on the emulator Jul 21 23:43:02 gordian: thanks for the emulator disks page. you go to the front of the queue when asking me questions now Jul 21 23:44:21 cool Jul 21 23:44:30 i'm happy to contribute as much as i possibly can Jul 21 23:44:34 which brings me to: Jul 21 23:44:50 how can i manage to get access the emu via scftp Jul 21 23:44:51 ? Jul 21 23:45:13 sorry, sftp rather Jul 21 23:45:28 gordian: winscp, and access via port 5522 on the host Jul 21 23:45:35 i'm trying that Jul 21 23:45:59 'Cannot initialize SFTP protocol. Is the host running a SFTP server?' Jul 21 23:46:32 gordian: ah, tell winscp to use SCP prototocl rather than SFTP Jul 21 23:47:10 *doh* Jul 21 23:47:19 thanks Jul 21 23:47:22 whew Jul 21 23:47:26 finally Jul 21 23:48:54 HebrewzHammer: haven't tried it Jul 21 23:49:49 dam, i really want that mod to work Jul 21 23:50:55 what's the url Jul 21 23:50:59 i'll see if i can get it working Jul 21 23:52:18 i'm getting winscp to work with the emulaotr but every time it connects it gives an error "Error looking up user groups". I'm assuming its just a setting but i can't find it. Jul 21 23:52:46 gordian: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Messaging_Mods THANX1 Jul 22 00:05:16 anyone know if the NSLU2 NAS device is good for native Palm Pre C/C++ programming development evironment Jul 22 00:05:31 mtlemmonrunner: nope, different arch Jul 22 00:05:49 crosscompile on which linux version Jul 22 00:05:53 mtlemmonrunner: but just use the optware cross compilation environment which was used for the NSLU2 - we've added the Pre as a supported platform Jul 22 00:09:03 thanks Jul 22 00:09:51 heh, basic linux question: how can I get the files inside nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz to have a ./ in front? Jul 22 00:10:50 sparkymarkd: not sure what you mean Jul 22 00:10:52 sparkymarkd: ./ refers to the current working directory...you probably don't want to Jul 22 00:11:17 Later guys Jul 22 00:11:31 ftp them Jul 22 00:11:41 ah, I think I figured it out - in the dir tar -czvf nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz ./ Jul 22 00:12:09 un-pack and tar x them to /opt/foo Jul 22 00:12:28 well, I'm trying to make it look exactly like the original. I did on tar that did not have the ./ but then when I did the tar -tf on the original, I see it has the ./ in front of each file Jul 22 00:12:53 sparkymarkd: that means they will untar to the current directory Jul 22 00:13:13 you will overwrite your root Jul 22 00:13:29 with 1.0.2 files most likely Jul 22 00:13:30 so the ./ is not really necessary? I actually flashed the phone without it, and it almost worked.. Jul 22 00:13:54 ./ means the current directory Jul 22 00:14:12 I did it on my pc first to see what is in there Jul 22 00:14:31 but if the original nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz file has it that way, then it won't hurt to do it same way again right? Jul 22 00:14:33 it is the complete OS fs Jul 22 00:14:49 tar -tf file.tar will list the contents Jul 22 00:15:10 I just use that tar for backups and refernce Jul 22 00:15:21 yes, I was listing contents of my file I created versus original compariing thm Jul 22 00:15:50 is there some special you want from that tar cause it is the complete everything Jul 22 00:17:05 it will wipe out any mods you made to palms apps on phone if you tar it as is Jul 22 00:18:09 yes, that's the intentions Jul 22 00:18:55 rwhitby what development environment do you use for native palm pre c/c++ apps e.g. which linux distro, ide, or are you just vi/cc/ln Jul 22 00:19:59 mtlemmonrunner: at the moment we're using Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, and Makefiles Jul 22 00:20:25 great info thank you again Jul 22 00:21:40 mtlemmonrunner: are you working with destinal on this? Jul 22 00:22:43 Does anyone here have an idea about how a webOS application would be able to access and parse an ipkg Packages file like http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages ? Jul 22 00:23:01 To create a homebrew GUI app installer, we need to be able to do that. Jul 22 00:24:05 rwhitby I'm flying solo maybe getting couple of others at work w/Pre's Jul 22 00:24:13 who are our Javascript text parsing experts? Jul 22 00:24:22 jquery Jul 22 00:24:29 mtlemmonrunner: destinal is spearheading the effort to do native apps Jul 22 00:25:10 which room does he hang out on Jul 22 00:25:17 mtlemmonrunner: and there's a wiki page which has all the info about plugins. Jul 22 00:25:22 mtlemmonrunner: he's here now Jul 22 00:25:49 rwhitby I hate to say this, but I think that puff may be our best regex guy... but he's not a javascript guy... so it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Jul 22 00:25:53 mtlemmonrunner: do you run any of the nslu2-linux.org stuff on your slug? Jul 22 00:26:17 Rick__: regexps are the problem - just how to do text parsing and regexps in javascript Jul 22 00:26:57 rwhitby no but was going to use it for native coding but guess that will be just for SLUG Jul 22 00:26:59 I've got a guy who is developing an app installer gui, but he wants to create a new xml format for ipkg feeds instead of just parsing the existing standard ipkg Packages file. Jul 22 00:27:53 so he wants to install via XML feed instead of .ipkg? Jul 22 00:27:55 mtlemmonrunner: I run the nslu2-linux.org project ... Jul 22 00:28:06 cool Jul 22 00:28:34 been all over the site last couple days sponging Jul 22 00:28:44 mtlemmonrunner: no, he wants to use XML for the metadata instead of the standard ipkg Packages file (like the one I pasted above) Jul 22 00:28:48 mtlemmonrunner: hey Jul 22 00:29:14 hi Jul 22 00:29:34 heard you write native pre apps? Jul 22 00:30:21 mtlemmonrunner: yes. mainly right now browser plugins. plugins and services are the two major ways to implement native code that interface through mojo Jul 22 00:31:00 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications if you feel like jumping in head first :) Jul 22 00:31:33 mtlemmonrunner: and the best dev environment IMO is the emulator from the SDK. yes, it's x86, but other than that it's webOS and even browser plugins are 99% accurate in it Jul 22 00:31:47 or so it seems. Jul 22 00:32:27 destinal so I can just compile in c link make in emulator and test and it will be close enough huh Jul 22 00:32:29 the same code runs the same from there on x86 or cross compiled to arm for a real pre Jul 22 00:32:46 mtlemmonrunner: the optware dev environment can build for Pre or Emulator too Jul 22 00:32:47 good enough Jul 22 00:33:34 mtlemmonrunner: lately I've also been building natively in eclipse on x86 ubuntu 9 and copying my plugins to the emulator (in my make install target) Jul 22 00:33:37 just works Jul 22 00:33:42 mtlemmonrunner: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Optware_Cross_Compilation Jul 22 00:34:06 other than add one? I did and got an email but weirdly doesn't seem to proceed anywhere afterward for me. Jul 22 00:34:16 destinal are the MOJO api's in c documented the .so and such? Jul 22 00:34:47 *doh* I need to scroll *down* before I start typing :/ Jul 22 00:35:17 destinal e.g. the hooks for c compiling and linking to MOJO where is that information? Jul 22 00:35:51 mtlemmonrunner: well you compile C and create .so's and put them where luna will load them and then it dynamically loads and calls you Jul 22 00:35:55 it's all NPAPI actually Jul 22 00:36:27 check out the helloplugin mojo app and the basicplugin lib Jul 22 00:36:31 in the git repo I linked above Jul 22 00:36:47 destinal right on Jul 22 00:37:01 there are no docs from palm, this is all trial and error, mozilla docs, and a little reversing Jul 22 00:37:56 it should be noted that plugins aren't the right answer all the time Jul 22 00:37:59 maybe this is profound but how come I got a feeling there are no palm developer teams other than the grassroots one Jul 22 00:38:09 for many things services are better, basically daemons that talk dbus to mojo Jul 22 00:39:10 mtlemmonrunner: cause all the closed source teams will usually be secretive and not release any details until they are sure they have the means to lock you in and extract as much money out of you for as little application value as they can. Jul 22 00:39:16 mtlemmonrunner: well there may be a native SDK you get if you are special, motionapps obviously has a lot of material we don't, their plugin is a solid palmos emulator which is a significant hack to be sure Jul 22 00:40:15 hmm pidgin crash Jul 22 00:40:28 is debian chroot the route for some low level development Jul 22 00:40:29 hi i have a problem with the drag and drop install in dev mode..... Jul 22 00:41:11 mtlemmonrunner: depends if you want to interact with webOS or not Jul 22 00:43:06 anyone? Jul 22 00:43:22 tbird02 just create ipgk and drag-drop over the palm-install.bat file Jul 22 00:43:51 must be in dev mode and the phone on line via usb and emulator off Jul 22 00:44:16 yeah. i did all that, the installer told me the app should be visible, didnt give me any errors. Jul 22 00:44:28 can't see the app however. even after reboot Jul 22 00:44:28 use the palm-package.bat to build passing it the base folder of project Jul 22 00:44:49 on phone or emulator? Jul 22 00:44:56 phone Jul 22 00:45:04 is it in dev mode? Jul 22 00:45:07 yes Jul 22 00:45:43 is nova running as service? Jul 22 00:45:59 novacmd Jul 22 00:46:25 check taskmanager novacmd.exe should be up Jul 22 00:46:30 gordian: you try that character counter mod? Jul 22 00:46:40 i see "palm novacom" as started in services.msc Jul 22 00:46:51 tbird02: try stopping and restarting it Jul 22 00:46:56 restart it Jul 22 00:47:01 :) Jul 22 00:47:13 okay, now what? Jul 22 00:47:24 bbl (commute) Jul 22 00:47:27 public release of SDK fixed novacmd.exe bug do you have it? Jul 22 00:47:41 or are you using the leaked one? Jul 22 00:47:49 uhoh, i didnt install the new drivers, i kept the ones that i installed when i rooted it Jul 22 00:48:12 seperate install you have two now Jul 22 00:48:25 is that the one it asks you to install when you install the prebrew installer? Jul 22 00:48:40 i said no to that Jul 22 00:49:26 i removed leaked SDK and removed Palm* folders and shutdown the service novecmd.exe and re-installed the public release version Jul 22 00:49:49 okay. is the public release included in the prebrew installer Jul 22 00:50:16 it's novacmd.exe that I'm more suspect of Jul 22 00:50:24 the installers are just .bat files Jul 22 00:50:27 HebrewzHammer: just tried it Jul 22 00:50:33 what happens when you apply it? Jul 22 00:50:43 okay.. Jul 22 00:51:11 unless you are talking about the .jar files it uses Jul 22 00:51:31 does the messaging app just freeze up? Jul 22 00:51:52 where do i get the new sdk Jul 22 00:52:05 and how do i get rid of the leaked SDK Jul 22 00:52:07 haven't tried the count mod but the radio off one blew chunks maybe new wiki fixed the typos Jul 22 00:52:24 tbird02: the public release could not be included in the PreBrew installer, cause that would violate Palm copyright Jul 22 00:52:27 control panel remove programs Jul 22 00:52:28 gordian: when I open the messaging app everything looks fine but when you tap on any mssg/contact nothing happens Jul 22 00:52:36 yeah i get the same issue Jul 22 00:52:36 gordian: what did you get? Jul 22 00:52:43 i cant even start a new msg Jul 22 00:52:53 +rwhitby: thanks. Jul 22 00:53:01 gordian: someone on the forum said he has it working...I guess he's the only one in the world Jul 22 00:53:10 link pls Jul 22 00:53:26 gordian: me neither. Well, thanx for comfirming i'm not insane b/c its been driving me crazy Jul 22 00:53:37 how about the radio off mod is that fixed yet anyone get that one working? Jul 22 00:53:39 gordian: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1766849#post1766849 Jul 22 00:53:45 +rwhitby: how do i get rid of the leaked sdk? Jul 22 00:53:55 tbird02: dunno, I never installed it. Jul 22 00:53:59 un-install control panel Jul 22 00:54:08 thanks. i will try that Jul 22 00:54:11 just like any program Jul 22 00:54:19 do i need to uninstall novacom? Jul 22 00:54:24 kill the novacmd.exe too Jul 22 00:54:27 yes Jul 22 00:54:36 uninstall novacmd.exe Jul 22 00:54:48 * rwhitby is surprised that people come out and say in publicly logged channels that they have installed an illegally redistributed leaked SDK ... Jul 22 00:54:49 then delelte the palm folders out of program files Jul 22 00:55:15 never installed it just passing on what I read Jul 22 00:55:22 wow, really? Jul 22 00:55:36 who cares? i know palm doesnt Jul 22 00:55:39 the internet have the answers Jul 22 00:55:49 I just the messenger Jul 22 00:56:14 google has some lame plug-in that is all I ever used before public release Jul 22 00:56:44 guess i'll go to hell for messing with my open source phone Jul 22 00:57:04 have you bricked it yet that was fun Jul 22 00:57:11 tbird02: no problem messing with open source phones. but open source is built on respecting copyrights. Jul 22 00:57:26 (or copylefts, which still are built on copyright law) Jul 22 00:57:36 palmdoctor was free download Jul 22 00:57:46 mtlemmonrunner: if the doctor can fix it, it was never bricked Jul 22 00:58:07 +rwhitby: i understand that, but they are not going to go after you for using a leaked SDK. Jul 22 00:58:09 I was too lazy for bootie that night Jul 22 00:58:10 yeah, we used palm doctor to get all the info, cause it was not under NDA Jul 22 00:58:38 now if you agreed to a NDA, thats different Jul 22 00:58:52 tbird02: sure, they probably won't, but your future employer might be reading this channel - it all depends on the reputation you wish to uphold in public places Jul 22 00:59:22 I messed with the reflex and cpuspeed mod together some dude said it was working for him hahahahaha Jul 22 00:59:24 I'd hire ya, tbird02 ;) Jul 22 00:59:39 lol Jul 22 00:59:39 thanks Jul 22 00:59:49 i highly doubt my employer is on IRC forums. Jul 22 01:00:03 tbird02: google searches the logs from this channel Jul 22 01:00:20 evening Jul 22 01:00:22 so tor in then Jul 22 01:00:30 lol, it still doesnt matter. Jul 22 01:00:50 only if you are the exit node right Jul 22 01:00:55 tbird02: sure - for some people it doesn't matter, for others it does - it's a personal choice Jul 22 01:01:06 i hear you. Jul 22 01:01:30 so political in here Jul 22 01:01:36 so anyway, i removed the bad stuff and am installing VB. is there anything else i need to run the sdk Jul 22 01:01:39 mtlemmonrunner: not usually. Jul 22 01:01:40 other than java Jul 22 01:02:02 mtlemmonrunner: most people usually don't mention the "not quite legit" stuff they do Jul 22 01:02:09 check the pre-req on plam site Jul 22 01:02:20 I think just java Jul 22 01:02:55 thanks installing Jul 22 01:02:57 sounds like he's scratching his scabs off Jul 22 01:03:21 peels the skin from getting burned Jul 22 01:03:44 I hear the install is much better than that leaked one Jul 22 01:04:06 actually works with the emulator and stuff like so the grape vine claims Jul 22 01:05:03 he's installing Jul 22 01:05:13 done.. Jul 22 01:05:14 screws with the network connections Jul 22 01:06:01 drag your fully working hello world project base folder onto the SDK/bin/palm-package Jul 22 01:06:29 I made mine desktop shortcuts 8-) Jul 22 01:06:33 hmm Jul 22 01:06:36 mtlemmonrunner: the Palm SDK is definitely the easiest way to install apps Jul 22 01:06:53 and package projects too Jul 22 01:07:10 so now what? i made sure i can still root into the pre, and it worked. Jul 22 01:07:19 it did yell at me about novacom drivers.. Jul 22 01:07:20 MyNotifications was borken at one time and I needed to repackage it Jul 22 01:07:20 so, no javascript experts here who can say how to parse the file at http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages in a webOS app? Jul 22 01:07:47 mtlemmonrunner: hey, do you want to help with repackaging stuff for preware.org ? Jul 22 01:08:05 is the format documented? Jul 22 01:08:26 looks binary Jul 22 01:09:09 loading one in Notepad++ Jul 22 01:09:23 viewing in hex Jul 22 01:09:43 mtlemmonrunner: which format? Jul 22 01:09:54 some head info and then the code I guess ipgk Jul 22 01:10:04 mtlemmonrunner: I'm just talking about the metadata file that I pasted the link to Jul 22 01:10:44 the package information that should be simple it's human readable Jul 22 01:10:46 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages <- can anyone tell me how they would parse that file using webOS javascript? Jul 22 01:11:07 Package: com.boatrights.prechess Jul 22 01:11:07 Version: 0.0.01 Jul 22 01:11:07 Section: misc Jul 22 01:11:07 Architecture: all Jul 22 01:11:07 Maintainer: Boatrights Jul 22 01:11:08 MD5Sum: e481639607cc8f84a10bba187bfc0a8f Jul 22 01:11:08 mtlemmonrunner: agreed, but I'm not a javascript guy, so looking for someone who is Jul 22 01:11:10 Size: 141316 Jul 22 01:11:12 Filename: com.boatrights.prechess_0.0.01_all.ipk Jul 22 01:11:14 Description: PreChess Jul 22 01:11:16 Package: com.danielfarina.pretris Jul 22 01:11:18 Version: 0.2.5 Jul 22 01:11:20 Section: misc Jul 22 01:11:22 Architecture: all Jul 22 01:11:24 Maintainer: danielfarina Jul 22 01:11:26 MD5Sum: f2173eabb49f08d21f0f73b8ba3f8cb7 Jul 22 01:11:28 Size: 249268 Jul 22 01:11:30 Fi Jul 22 01:11:32 that stuff Jul 22 01:11:44 yes, that stuff. Jul 22 01:11:55 is it easy to parse is webOS javascript, or hard? Jul 22 01:12:14 you want javascript to convert from that text to xml format should be simple Jul 22 01:12:24 someone is trying to tell me that we need a new XML format instead of using that standard Packages format that has been around for over 5 years. Jul 22 01:12:54 I have XML object code in javascript alreqady from scratch creqated Jul 22 01:13:27 if that doesn't work I'm sure there is something else to create the XML in dom form and them toString it Jul 22 01:13:31 do i need novacom drivers? it asked me for them when i connected my pre Jul 22 01:13:46 should be able to just pull it apart using a simple regular expression, then make it json Jul 22 01:14:07 rwhitby, though if you're in charge of the packages, it might be better to just transfer it over as json already Jul 22 01:14:14 which would be easy peasy for webos to pull apart Jul 22 01:14:26 why reg ex when the format is so static Jul 22 01:14:30 bpadalino: but then you have to convince everyone that has an ipkg feed to do that Jul 22 01:15:06 we already have a standard format. we should just write a common javascript library that parses it and makes it available. Jul 22 01:15:29 mtlemmonrunner, simpler to write? your first capture becomes the key, the colon is the separator and the rest of the line is the other field Jul 22 01:16:00 you don't try and change SMTP to use something other than rfc822 message formats just because your latest email client is written in javascript ... Jul 22 01:16:01 I'm unclear about how it fed into javascript e.g. URL Jul 22 01:16:37 then how do we output HTML DIV Jul 22 01:16:41 rwhitby, true Jul 22 01:17:18 e.g. is this just a help javascript class to read from URL and then the consumer will be responsible for toString Jul 22 01:18:04 rwhitby, i didn't realize there were other feeds - and thought this was something 100% under your own control Jul 22 01:18:08 I'll prptotype some on tomcat against that link and see if I can create XML output back to browser Jul 22 01:18:21 no reason to waste pre cpu cycles when you can ship it over as something webOS likes already Jul 22 01:18:36 bpadalino: optware is an example of existing feeds. I'd expect there will be many ipkg feeds for Pre native applications. Jul 22 01:18:41 so is it json or XML Jul 22 01:18:50 something right Jul 22 01:19:13 it comes in as that text format, but i think you should parse it into json Jul 22 01:19:59 so this all needs to occur client side right no service or backend code right Jul 22 01:20:48 I extimate that work to be four hours to stand it up Jul 22 01:21:00 another few to get it right Jul 22 01:21:19 then longer to match up with the real requirements Jul 22 01:21:31 :p Jul 22 01:21:47 I start it now Jul 22 01:23:54 http://www.hunlock.com/blogs/Mastering_JSON_(_JavaScript_Object_Notation_) Jul 22 01:24:03 "JSON Via Parse" Jul 22 01:24:51 oh, that's if you want JSON to come in Jul 22 01:25:54 rwhitby i'll check back in tommorrow night Jul 22 01:26:18 mtlemmonrunner: sweet, thanks. do you have an account on gitorious.org so we can put the code there? Jul 22 01:26:50 not yet Jul 22 01:27:44 hi, i'm back. Jul 22 01:28:01 is the pre brew installer any good? i can't get it to work.. Jul 22 01:28:27 I;ll get one soon Jul 22 01:28:29 tbird02: dunno, I think most of us just use the plain Palm SDK to install stuff Jul 22 01:28:42 mtlemmonrunner: let me know the username and I'll add you to the group Jul 22 01:28:52 mtlemmonrunner Jul 22 01:29:00 of course Jul 22 01:29:01 how do you use the SDK to install? noob question.. Jul 22 01:29:15 enter soon before someone swipes it Jul 22 01:29:21 rwhitby mind if i pm you? Jul 22 01:29:44 see yah! Jul 22 01:29:53 gordian: I prefer that any questions about how to use webos-internals stuff is asked in the channel. feel free to pm me for any private stuff. Jul 22 01:30:06 ok no worries Jul 22 01:30:23 my goal is to alter the way you set reminders Jul 22 01:30:38 i'm definitely new at this Jul 22 01:30:52 but i've taken c++, java, and i'm pretty decent with css Jul 22 01:31:00 gordian: anything to do with the the snooze feature? Jul 22 01:31:10 HebrewzHammer our goals are similar Jul 22 01:31:22 i just want to be able to set reminders the old palmOS way Jul 22 01:31:34 where you have "Remind me in X Z" Jul 22 01:31:41 where X is an integer and Z is a unit of time Jul 22 01:31:52 gordian: i'm working on it as we speak...or type Jul 22 01:32:17 where are you working? Jul 22 01:32:24 i've never had to really read code like this before Jul 22 01:32:33 i'm not talking about a separate app Jul 22 01:32:35 i mean a mod Jul 22 01:32:36 gordian: yup, that exactly what i'm working on but i'm in the same position as you. I know Java and C++ but no JS Jul 22 01:32:57 ok Jul 22 01:33:14 gordian: yea, same here. Actually mod the calendar/clock app Jul 22 01:34:37 any decent progress? Jul 22 01:34:56 i've found that you can't (atleast I can't figure it out) get a integer picker to work properly in a banner alert. So i'm thinking that when you hit the snooze button, a popup dialog will appear and there will be an integer picker and then another picker/list for units of time Jul 22 01:35:33 a little progress, it's all trial/error b/c i'm still figuring out how to code for the PRe Jul 22 01:40:35 not to step on anybody's toes... I was just scanning the logs. rwhitby, would something like this do? http://webos.pastebin.com/m1eb57229 Jul 22 01:40:53 ouch drnull_ Jul 22 01:40:57 you stepped on my toes Jul 22 01:41:03 ;) Jul 22 01:41:04 there's no error checking or anything. Jul 22 01:41:14 Pardon me! :D Jul 22 01:41:51 just sent you my information Jul 22 01:42:21 rwhitby you there? Jul 22 01:46:55 drnull: sure, that looks pretty simple - can a webOS app get that initial package variable from a file? Jul 22 01:47:36 A file sure, but I think it could ajax get it as well? Jul 22 01:48:18 Either way, it has to do an ajax get, to the best of my knowledge. Jul 22 01:50:11 given that URL, can it get the info ? Jul 22 01:50:54 new Ajax.Request(URL, {method:'get', onComplete: function(transport) {Mojo.Log.error(transport.responseText);}}); Jul 22 01:51:00 I *think* that's right. Jul 22 01:52:04 What is the point of trying to cram an entire chess engine into less than 2K of C source. Jul 22 01:52:13 Why is unreadable source a _good_ thing? Jul 22 01:52:59 I am getting this error when installing ipk's using the SDK: FAILED_PACKAGEFILE_CORRUPT Jul 22 01:53:37 how old IPK's? Jul 22 01:53:40 one's you made? Jul 22 01:54:00 new SDK? Jul 22 01:54:05 no, i tried the chess app and stopwatch Jul 22 01:54:23 yes, public release Jul 22 01:54:28 ok, well since the chess ap is MINE, Jul 22 01:54:34 we ought to be able to figure that out. Jul 22 01:54:39 haha i hope Jul 22 01:54:45 windows mac or linux Jul 22 01:54:51 windows vista Jul 22 01:55:00 32 or 64? Jul 22 01:55:20 32 Jul 22 01:55:23 k Jul 22 01:55:29 same as I compiled it on. Jul 22 01:55:33 wait one. Jul 22 01:56:12 dev mode on, can root and sftp into phone Jul 22 01:59:05 back Jul 22 01:59:07 ok tbird02 Jul 22 01:59:16 sup Jul 22 01:59:36 go to that file, right click, pick properties, and tell me the EXACT SIZE in bytes of the file you have. Jul 22 02:00:03 40,294 bytes Jul 22 02:00:10 nope Jul 22 02:00:14 your download failed. Jul 22 02:00:19 you only have about 1/3 of it Jul 22 02:00:23 hmm Jul 22 02:00:29 actual file 140,336 Jul 22 02:00:32 wait Jul 22 02:00:42 do you have to be signed into precentral to download ipks??? Jul 22 02:00:47 nope Jul 22 02:00:51 oh Jul 22 02:01:13 but it's polite.... Jul 22 02:01:50 hold on Jul 22 02:02:39 HAHA! i got it Jul 22 02:02:46 you DO have to be signed into precentral Jul 22 02:02:51 I will be it will install better.... Jul 22 02:02:54 i was just right-click save Jul 22 02:02:57 it works. Jul 22 02:03:06 what a stupid fail. Jul 22 02:03:07 ahhh so what you got was a saved page saying "you have to be signed in..." Jul 22 02:03:16 is there a way to screenshot from the emulator? Jul 22 02:03:20 gee, I've ___NEVER___ done that ::nose grows:: Jul 22 02:03:26 yes there is Jul 22 02:03:33 search developer.palm.com for it. Jul 22 02:03:35 no, if you try and right click save as, it will download a ipk with a bunch of numbers in front of it Jul 22 02:03:39 ok Jul 22 02:03:44 not a valid ipk obviously Jul 22 02:04:04 obviously Jul 22 02:04:14 live and learn. Jul 22 02:04:20 thanks! catch you guys later Jul 22 02:04:21 I just figured out why the chess engine in it is so utterly crappy. Jul 22 02:04:26 rwhitby: split by line Jul 22 02:04:33 Why? Jul 22 02:04:37 * Templarian was scrolled wrong lol Jul 22 02:05:11 get the ipkg from ipkg.preware.org instead, then you don't need to be logged into precentral Jul 22 02:05:18 because it's a direct port of the 1433 character c++ micro-max engine Jul 22 02:05:30 which was NOTABLY stupid. Jul 22 02:05:55 If I wanted to bang my head against it, I could port the 2K micromax 4.8 and it would play 2 or 3 times better. Jul 22 02:06:29 but I'm trying to learn PRE PROGRAMMING not how to port C++ to javascript Jul 22 02:06:39 rwhitby, mtlemmonrunner, etc: if we're talking about an installer app, why don't we have an installer service? we know we can't use palm's install service without modifying keys anyway Jul 22 02:06:57 then we can just wrap ipkg in a service Jul 22 02:07:13 destinal: sure, the architecture should be as such Jul 22 02:07:15 * Lurking_Grue hasn't played chess it probably 15 years so doubt I would notice. Jul 22 02:07:28 parsing ipkg repositories in javascript = bad idea IMO Jul 22 02:07:32 destinal: ah, so the service downloads the Packages file and passes that info up to the app? Jul 22 02:07:39 right, json over dbus Jul 22 02:07:50 anyone using the emulator with kvm? Jul 22 02:07:52 works for me. Jul 22 02:07:56 or on linux Jul 22 02:07:58 basically an ipkg list, wouldn't it be? Jul 22 02:07:58 (that was to destinal( Jul 22 02:08:04 ipkg update to pull down repo Jul 22 02:08:08 ipkg list Jul 22 02:08:10 same as anything Jul 22 02:08:14 destinal: need to be able to add feeds from the app too Jul 22 02:08:18 sure no problem Jul 22 02:08:35 I'm going to try and use kvm instead of virtualbox Jul 22 02:08:47 the only wrinkle is security (ie how do we keep other apps from doing it too) and I think I've figured that out Jul 22 02:08:51 Lurking_Grue == you would notice. Jul 22 02:09:00 Rick_: any helpful search terms? Jul 22 02:09:05 i'd appreciate it Jul 22 02:09:09 It stalemates when it's a king a pawn a queen and a rook against a bare king. Jul 22 02:09:10 i've searched to no avail Jul 22 02:09:11 I believe webos prevents an app from accessing the sqlite3 db of another app Jul 22 02:09:16 for a way to screenshot on the emu Jul 22 02:09:17 that's ___ bad ___ Jul 22 02:09:17 Ok guys, the sdk has some how blocked me from usb connecting to my pre when doing novaproxy with putty, it was working until I installed the sdk... so I uninstalled everything and was going to start from scratch with the "rooting pre" instructions but it still won't work. So I installed the sdk again to see if the USB feature would allow me to connect to my pre but it's greyed out... can someone please help or has someone ex Jul 22 02:09:29 destinal they SAY it does Jul 22 02:09:35 you're just saying it's effective. Jul 22 02:09:44 Rick__: do you know it's not? Jul 22 02:10:01 no, I have been operating on the presumption that it IS effective Jul 22 02:10:05 ok Jul 22 02:10:06 it's like 3 layers deep Jul 22 02:10:06 so if so Jul 22 02:10:24 we create a random token on first start and save it in our sqlite db Jul 22 02:10:30 the service, being root, can read it too Jul 22 02:10:37 DSouljah: have you tried reinstalling your usb stack? Jul 22 02:10:38 heh Jul 22 02:10:39 we pass it as a parameter in our dbus command Jul 22 02:10:58 destinal: why do we want to restrict access to the service? Jul 22 02:11:08 The funny thing is, when I use novaproxy with the emulator running, it finds a pre, then I use putty with the settings I normally used to connect to the pre before I installed sdk it then connects to the emulator pre!!!! Jul 22 02:11:13 your sql app talks to a service that talks to a sql re-director which talks to your table which returns the results to you. The service refuses to open tables that don't belong to you, and it knows whos is whos from that internal table it keeps, which you can't access Jul 22 02:11:18 because we don't want malicious apps adding feeds and running arbitrary code Jul 22 02:11:24 jwm, no how would I go about doing that! Jul 22 02:12:02 hehe, it connects to the emulator pre Jul 22 02:12:14 I think it messes with the ports Jul 22 02:12:21 * rwhitby bbl Jul 22 02:12:33 go to your device manager Jul 22 02:12:37 ok Jul 22 02:13:00 I'm there Jul 22 02:13:01 Rick__ et al: does my idea make sense? and do others feel it is necessary? Jul 22 02:13:33 destinal: it seems like rwhitby had someone who was close to having an installer working, and they just needed this last piece. It would be nice to not overcomplicate it, but I understand your concerns. Jul 22 02:13:48 Especially with the pre/postinst ability of ipkg's Jul 22 02:13:55 I currenly have the emulator running, and my pre is connected by usb Jul 22 02:13:57 drnull_: I don't want another org.webosinternals.command whatever it was Jul 22 02:14:45 well Jul 22 02:14:51 when you turn off the emulator what happens? Jul 22 02:14:55 drnull_: anyway we need a service to do it properly IMO Jul 22 02:15:12 sup Jul 22 02:15:29 and once the service is happy they should be able to make their app work in it Jul 22 02:15:43 i wonder if we ask palm if we can get the natice service headers if they would give them to us Jul 22 02:15:44 when I turn off the emulator and try novaproxy, it says it novacomm couldn't find the pre Jul 22 02:15:54 i dont like this java idea Jul 22 02:15:59 but i will do it if i have to Jul 22 02:16:04 destinal: yes, definitely need a service to call ipkg install. Jul 22 02:16:13 PuffTheMagic: we can make our own c services Jul 22 02:16:25 yeah but how... i only saw a java example Jul 22 02:16:26 drnull_: I'm thinking a c service that links to ipkg Jul 22 02:16:36 drnull_: the reason is we want to ipkg list in xml Jul 22 02:16:38 destinal: i can do that :D Jul 22 02:16:48 I guess we could wrap it in something to sed it all but that's ugly Jul 22 02:16:59 i've done xml in C Jul 22 02:17:10 PuffTheMagic: or even json Jul 22 02:17:13 may not need to be xml Jul 22 02:17:17 why did they build a 32bit version of the webos sdk for linux?? Jul 22 02:17:19 pita Jul 22 02:17:28 jwm: are you doing ia32libs? Jul 22 02:17:31 jwm: what does it matter... its in a VM Jul 22 02:17:47 it does matter Jul 22 02:17:47 jwm: should be possible to run 32 bit on 64 bit deb / ubuntu Jul 22 02:17:54 because it dictates what environment I have to build Jul 22 02:17:59 PuffTheMagic: he means the apps and novacom Jul 22 02:18:00 I have to install 32bit versions of swt Jul 22 02:18:00 jwm: no Jul 22 02:18:04 yes Jul 22 02:18:09 32bit versions of gtk Jul 22 02:18:10 jwm: swt? Jul 22 02:18:21 just install 64bit vbox Jul 22 02:18:29 it wants to use swt Jul 22 02:18:29 ++ Jul 22 02:18:34 64bit Jul 22 02:18:48 destinal: I just wish there wasn't so much talk about the homebrew app installer. And more app installer to the homebrew app installer. Seems like it's been being talked about for a good month. :) I guess we're all just busy with our own projects. Jul 22 02:19:05 drnull_: I've been kind of focused on plugins Jul 22 02:19:13 aye, understand. Jul 22 02:19:21 really wasn't directed at anybody. Just a statement. Jul 22 02:19:30 so how do i get the usb reset to wrork with the pre I have connected? Jul 22 02:19:31 I think you're right re: all busy with projects Jul 22 02:19:46 and the enemy of better is good enough Jul 22 02:19:48 I like that we have a ipkg repo setup at least. Jul 22 02:19:52 the current methods are good enough Jul 22 02:19:54 alas Jul 22 02:20:13 ok, searched the palm dev site can't figure out how to get the emulator to take a screenshot Jul 22 02:20:18 so we focus on the stuff that isn't good enough :) Jul 22 02:20:18 any help would be appreciated Jul 22 02:20:21 i can help with what ever, cause i have no real projects atm, i am just tinkering with various things at once to get familar with the env/platform Jul 22 02:20:26 that really is bad or nonexistent Jul 22 02:20:31 but anywhere i can be most useful let me know Jul 22 02:20:46 PuffTheMagic: I'd say look at wrapping ipkg with a service that accepts update, install, remove, list, etc in json Jul 22 02:20:47 I got a call this evening from the PreDevCamp organizer for Kansas City... asking if I would do two short sessions on porting old javascript apps, and on "the community." :-) Jul 22 02:20:54 and i'd do it in C personally but it's up to you Jul 22 02:21:14 I'd link to ipkg code and call the functions directly Jul 22 02:21:30 destinal: how do I get notifications and shit from Luna in ? Jul 22 02:21:34 I just try to start it with palm-emulator Jul 22 02:21:36 and it fails Jul 22 02:21:44 destinal: should the c service be able to add a new repo, or should that be done via the .conf? Jul 22 02:21:44 ... not that that would be needed for the ipkg thing Jul 22 02:21:59 drnull_: I'd add that to the service also Jul 22 02:22:06 drnull: sure part of service Jul 22 02:22:07 add, list, remove repo Jul 22 02:22:43 PuffTheMagic: it should do the equivilent of ipkg -o /var Jul 22 02:22:53 but with its own repos Jul 22 02:23:20 well just add to the standard list maybe Jul 22 02:23:21 i can make path a variable for the gui to set too Jul 22 02:23:25 hmm Jul 22 02:23:35 i can already imagine the layout Jul 22 02:23:40 something like the messages interface Jul 22 02:23:46 with the two buttons at top Jul 22 02:23:54 one for packages/repo view Jul 22 02:23:57 i mean Jul 22 02:24:00 packges per repo Jul 22 02:24:13 and the other button for the repo list maybe Jul 22 02:24:14 idk Jul 22 02:25:08 destinal: we could have the service only access verified repos Jul 22 02:25:18 or check signatures on Packages files Jul 22 02:25:56 I wish they didn't just support ubuntu with the linux version Jul 22 02:26:14 jwm it works on all distros Jul 22 02:26:27 using deb2tgz? Jul 22 02:26:33 yeah Jul 22 02:26:41 in tht will be a data.tar.gz file Jul 22 02:26:44 extract that to / Jul 22 02:26:51 everything will be in /opt Jul 22 02:26:51 I've done that Jul 22 02:26:58 so you should be all set Jul 22 02:27:04 do you use it on 64bit? Jul 22 02:27:16 rwhitby: well the thing about the signatures issue is what about hostile repositories? Jul 22 02:27:24 if you're going to allow adding feeds Jul 22 02:27:30 the feed could say, sure, I'm good Jul 22 02:27:34 no... but it dont matter... if you have a build vbox built and java it will work Jul 22 02:27:42 destinal: they are not signed with a private key that the service accepts Jul 22 02:27:50 if we go with signatures, then all we need to do is add our signing key to /etc/ssl/certs/PalmCACert.pem, and we could use the appinstaller service. Then we have the built-in security that only apps that are com.palm could use it. Jul 22 02:27:54 rwhitby: then what's the use of other feeds Jul 22 02:27:59 rwhitby: they won't work Jul 22 02:28:08 destinal: as they are qualified, they are added Jul 22 02:28:09 destinal: who cares about signatures... if someone wants to add a repo its their choice Jul 22 02:28:10 it won't really Jul 22 02:28:24 it builds against several 32bit versions of the java libraries Jul 22 02:28:30 PuffTheMagic: the problem is an app can surreptitiously add a rogue repo Jul 22 02:28:32 PuffTheMagic: the point is we don't want a malicious app installing arbitrary code Jul 22 02:28:56 that is always a risk installing code/apps you dont know about Jul 22 02:28:58 rwhitby: so we just add repos as packages to our feed then? Jul 22 02:29:14 you should expect that with non official apps Jul 22 02:29:16 well Jul 22 02:29:20 assume that risk i mean Jul 22 02:29:21 the problem is it eliminates the use of a company internal feed Jul 22 02:29:41 destinal: you can go in via root to do that Jul 22 02:29:43 I like the idea of validating the app and the feed but allowing user entry of any feed Jul 22 02:29:59 something like that could be done Jul 22 02:30:18 but we would have to have a static list of verified keys/signatures some how Jul 22 02:30:20 ie validating that the packages are signed by the feed signature Jul 22 02:30:29 Need some n00b help here: I am getting "Not enough memory" even though I have plenty...I am guessing something in tmp? or logs? Jul 22 02:30:33 PuffTheMagic: validate the app by a key in a database the service can read would work Jul 22 02:30:33 and im not sure how to do that securly Jul 22 02:30:42 that prevents rogue apps Jul 22 02:30:58 yeah i guess... Jul 22 02:31:04 this dont have to be C really Jul 22 02:31:08 i mean this is easy in java Jul 22 02:31:16 i've done md5 fingerprints before Jul 22 02:31:24 rwhitby: why not restrict the service to our app? they can always modify the service if need be Jul 22 02:31:34 is there a libipkg Jul 22 02:31:36 destinal: is our app open source? Jul 22 02:31:40 PuffTheMagic: yes Jul 22 02:31:41 sure it would be Jul 22 02:31:41 or do i need to make system calls Jul 22 02:31:55 destinal: then how to restrict to just our app? Jul 22 02:32:03 I wrote it up earlier hang on Jul 22 02:32:07 PuffTheMagic: libipkg is there Jul 22 02:32:25 on first start of the app you create a sqlite3 database and insert a long random token Jul 22 02:32:32 too bad there is no java bindings ;) Jul 22 02:32:34 when calling the service you provide it Jul 22 02:32:44 the service is root and can read the app's database Jul 22 02:32:50 other apps cannot Jul 22 02:33:18 this feels bad Jul 22 02:33:20 bingo, exclusive access Jul 22 02:33:23 like we are being restrictive Jul 22 02:33:28 like Palm is being Jul 22 02:33:29 PuffTheMagic: it's called security Jul 22 02:33:42 we provide the code, and anyone can edit app or service to their liking Jul 22 02:34:07 there's nothing to prevent someone from installing a wide open service, I just don't want wide open defaults Jul 22 02:34:10 i dont get what use the db is... Jul 22 02:34:12 Trying to install an app from the catalog Jul 22 02:34:16 the db would have to be on our server Jul 22 02:34:20 no Jul 22 02:34:23 sqlite3 Jul 22 02:34:29 what is the point of that? Jul 22 02:34:30 apps have their own sqlite databases Jul 22 02:34:36 i thought you wanted to verify the app some how Jul 22 02:34:38 apps can't read other apps sqlite databases Jul 22 02:34:59 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 324009984 Jul 2 00:46 nova-cust-image.vmdk Jul 22 02:35:01 hmm Jul 22 02:35:04 why does an app need an sqlite db in the first place Jul 22 02:35:06 PuffTheMagic: not drm Jul 22 02:35:10 just authentication Jul 22 02:35:17 alright fine, I will wait for the geek talk to stop :) Jul 22 02:35:36 any app can call any service. I want our service to check what app is calling and this is the only way I've thought of so far Jul 22 02:35:47 it relies on the fact that a rogue app can't steal our db Jul 22 02:35:53 on the phone itself Jul 22 02:36:28 what's up Eguy? Jul 22 02:36:32 so consider it a shared key generated whenever the app wants to generate it but before calling the service Jul 22 02:36:51 you have me so confused, we were talking about verifying a particular app is trusted in the ipkg service... i dont understand how a local db can be used for such verification Jul 22 02:36:58 anyone could access that db if they are rooted Jul 22 02:37:06 PuffTheMagic: yes but other MOJO apps cant Jul 22 02:37:07 I am getting "Sorry, Not Enough Memory" trying to install an updated app from the app catalog Jul 22 02:37:15 mojo is what I'm protecting against Jul 22 02:37:26 I know it has got to be from an optiware thing because I have 2 GB free Jul 22 02:37:39 Eguy: did you install ajaxterm? Jul 22 02:37:42 Eguy: hahaaha,.... i had that Jul 22 02:37:46 Negatory Jul 22 02:37:49 hmm Jul 22 02:37:59 No ssh, no term Jul 22 02:38:01 your are SOL Jul 22 02:38:11 Eguy: i couldnt recover from that Jul 22 02:38:18 i needed disk doctor Jul 22 02:38:24 is this because of filling up /var ? Jul 22 02:38:27 Just me mondifications Jul 22 02:38:33 ah it could be Jul 22 02:38:34 destinal: nfc Jul 22 02:38:41 all my aps are in var Jul 22 02:38:44 apps* Jul 22 02:38:44 i didnt install to /var Jul 22 02:38:47 i mean... Jul 22 02:38:52 /var/opt -> /opt ? Jul 22 02:38:55 i didnt have many real apps Jul 22 02:39:37 [var/usr/palm/applications Jul 22 02:39:50 PuffTheMagic: so do you get where I'm going? I don't want "approved feeds" that seems too controlling, I just want to make our service check that only our mojo app is calling it so a rogue mojo app doesn't kill everything Jul 22 02:39:51 all my homebrew stuff is in there Jul 22 02:40:16 but they are only a couple of hundred kb's each, why the hell is it saying no memory Jul 22 02:40:16 there is no ACL on this kind of power so I figured service to app auth Jul 22 02:40:22 destinal: yeah that i understand... i thought we were taliong about something else Jul 22 02:40:25 and why can I keep installing ipk's fine Jul 22 02:40:50 I think something with the /opt directory Jul 22 02:40:53 is fishy Jul 22 02:41:04 destinal: what about the C api... i get how to use dbus... but idk how to make a Luna Service Thread in C or how to recive notifications Jul 22 02:41:12 hmm Jul 22 02:41:16 good question Jul 22 02:41:30 Eguy: the /opt directory is mounted from /var Jul 22 02:41:40 ah Jul 22 02:41:54 PuffTheMagic: could this be your answer? http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.0.4/libpurple-adapter-1.0.tgz Jul 22 02:41:56 and it's total size is ~248M Jul 22 02:42:10 Well the only optiware I have installed is patch and quilt Jul 22 02:42:26 But I have 2GB free listed in device info Jul 22 02:42:29 Eguy: that pulls in quite a few deps, too Jul 22 02:42:33 destinal: :D Jul 22 02:42:37 that should do it :D Jul 22 02:42:44 that 2GB is a different partition Jul 22 02:42:56 That is what I figured Jul 22 02:43:09 A completely empty /var is 248MB Jul 22 02:43:17 Is there a way to see the filesizes? Jul 22 02:43:20 in putty Jul 22 02:43:35 destinal: how do you stop the rogue app being the first app to call the service and get it's token in the database? Jul 22 02:43:42 ls -sh shows sizes Jul 22 02:44:00 rwhitby: they would never have our app name so never have our db file Jul 22 02:44:00 Eguy: patch and quilt are about 40MB Jul 22 02:44:07 well Jul 22 02:44:09 I think Jul 22 02:44:14 destinal: a rogue app can use our app id Jul 22 02:44:17 ugh Jul 22 02:44:28 I knew they couldn't be that big Jul 22 02:44:49 Eguy: how much email do you have cached? Jul 22 02:44:52 rwhitby: have to go rain on my parade, don't you? :P Jul 22 02:44:53 so, back to /etc/ssl/certs/PalmCACert.pem... why not just add a private key there that we use to sign our packages, then just use appinstaller? Jul 22 02:44:57 how are you guys starting the webos emulator on linux? Jul 22 02:45:04 Not much email Jul 22 02:45:09 maybe 30 Jul 22 02:45:37 drnull_: doesn't allow for the user to add a new feed Jul 22 02:45:39 rwhitby: for that matter a rogue app with our app id might steal access to the db anyway. that's ugly Jul 22 02:45:40 I just checked tmp and var and nothing with big sizes Jul 22 02:46:02 do we know that works? Jul 22 02:46:23 * rwhitby figures that Palm has had all the conversations sometime in the last 9 months ... Jul 22 02:46:32 s/all the/all these/ Jul 22 02:46:44 bad bot, no action sensing, no botsnack Jul 22 02:46:53 ~lart infobot Jul 22 02:46:54 * infobot executes killall -KILL rwhitby Jul 22 02:46:56 destinal: problem! Jul 22 02:47:02 i dont have a arm toochain yet Jul 22 02:47:13 rwhitby: the user adding a new feed would require running something on his host os anyway Jul 22 02:47:14 PuffTheMagic: get it going in emulator first Jul 22 02:47:21 PuffTheMagic: just use the optware toolchain Jul 22 02:47:24 hmm everything shows up as 4 using ls -sh Jul 22 02:47:26 emulator = x86 Jul 22 02:47:28 that "something" could just as easily insert the new private key in. Jul 22 02:47:54 rwhitby: does the optware toolchain install in /opt ? Jul 22 02:47:57 drnull_: so you can only add new feeds using the usb cable? Jul 22 02:48:14 PuffTheMagic: cross compile or native? Jul 22 02:48:23 rwhitby: I would think you would want the user to be very aware of when he was adding in a new feed. Jul 22 02:48:31 crosstoolchain Jul 22 02:48:36 just like when he is installing the homebrew installer app. Jul 22 02:48:41 drnull_: we were thinking to make it a button in the app Jul 22 02:48:41 I am so not using the webos doctor unless I can backup all my mods and I don't even remember what I have don Jul 22 02:48:44 PuffTheMagic: installs whereever you want. Jul 22 02:48:47 e Jul 22 02:48:54 drnull_: call the service, install a feed Jul 22 02:48:57 Eguy: should have used quilt for the mods .... Jul 22 02:49:03 haha Jul 22 02:49:12 I did them before we were using quilt Jul 22 02:49:25 When the wiki just started Jul 22 02:49:27 Eguy: should have redone your mods and contributed the patches ;-) Jul 22 02:49:40 Don't you remember when I was trying? Jul 22 02:49:51 stupid quilt wouldn't cooperate with me Jul 22 02:50:20 destinal: yes, but there are security issues there... Jul 22 02:50:25 I would like to find out what is hogging all the FS space Jul 22 02:50:38 I don't know where to look though Jul 22 02:50:39 drnull_: if we could authenticate app to service it would be a nonissue though Jul 22 02:50:55 drnull_: but rwhitby just poked a large possible hole in my database-based auth idea Jul 22 02:51:10 destinal: I should have your job, hey? Jul 22 02:51:12 destinal: signing the request seems a little crazy Jul 22 02:51:15 http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index.jsp Jul 22 02:51:17 oops Jul 22 02:51:29 rwhitby: I didn't realize palm would allow something insane like duplicate id's Jul 22 02:51:31 Is this something abnormal? 828 md5sums Jul 22 02:51:33 are we sure about that? Jul 22 02:51:49 I'm jsut saying that palm already has provided a nice appinstaller service that checks that the package was signed, and that the person asking to do the install is com.palm.* Jul 22 02:51:50 that was from ls -sh Jul 22 02:51:53 how about we worry about this after i get the basics working :D Jul 22 02:51:55 destinal: IMO, yes. Jul 22 02:52:04 so guys Jul 22 02:52:04 destinal: oh, I'm thinking the rogue app can social engineer the user into installing the service and then running the rogue app first Jul 22 02:52:07 future reference Jul 22 02:52:17 the webos development system is NOT compatible with 64bit java Jul 22 02:52:19 thanks :P Jul 22 02:52:24 If we just use that, then we don't open up any more holes using our own services. Jul 22 02:52:40 rwhitby: hmmm.. what if the service goes to us to get an md5 of the apps files.. is that crazy? Jul 22 02:52:43 drnull: do you know how to sign "as palm" ? Jul 22 02:52:44 drnull_: we can't release an app as com.palm.* Jul 22 02:52:54 drnull_: and more importantly, is doing so legal? Jul 22 02:52:57 rwhitby: we can't release a homebrew app store anyway Jul 22 02:53:01 crazy++ Jul 22 02:53:06 is that md5sums size too big? Jul 22 02:53:18 drnull_: that's not only wrong, it's bad AND wrong. Jul 22 02:53:20 cphelps: we don't have to sign as palm, we just have to make palm agree that our app is signed legally. Jul 22 02:53:29 drnull_: who's doing a store. we're providing a homebrew test environment Jul 22 02:53:34 drnull_: know anyone who has done that? Jul 22 02:53:43 ruh roh Jul 22 02:53:53 rwhitby: you know who is doing a store :-) Jul 22 02:53:54 cphelps: why is it bad to have a com.palm.prebrew.installer Jul 22 02:53:55 drnull_: it's a free open source test repo, no selling, no competing Jul 22 02:54:14 drnull_: palm owns the com.palm namespace Jul 22 02:54:17 drnull_: you are infringing on their namespace. They could sue your ass. Jul 22 02:54:22 lol Jul 22 02:54:26 I doubt iut Jul 22 02:54:26 it Jul 22 02:54:28 using that namespace will get you a cease and desist I expect Jul 22 02:54:30 And they will sue this is america Jul 22 02:54:32 lol Jul 22 02:54:38 destinal: bah, slip of the tongue. Wasn't implying store, just a place to put apps. Jul 22 02:54:43 (if they want to get your app removed for some other reason) Jul 22 02:54:51 drnull_: I am working on said place to put a store Jul 22 02:55:05 drnull_: and people can charge or not, depending on their preference Jul 22 02:55:07 drnull Jul 22 02:55:28 cphelps: I don't think it helps to have an alternative store, but that's your call. Jul 22 02:55:43 rwhitby: can you release and app today though palm? Jul 22 02:55:48 preware.org is a staging area for testing apps before they are submitted to the palm store Jul 22 02:55:54 rwhitby: until that is the case, I will work on a store Jul 22 02:56:03 cphelps: will your store disappear the day the app store is released? Jul 22 02:56:05 cphelps: I really don't care what it is you're trying to do. My hopes was that we could get an app out soon for downloading all of this homebrew. Jul 22 02:56:11 rwhitby: it doesn't help to use the private bus, a rogue app could too Jul 22 02:56:13 so... Jul 22 02:56:30 drnull_: that's the key to the whole thing. Jul 22 02:56:36 drnull_: adding feeds to get apps from Jul 22 02:56:42 and getting them direct to the phone Jul 22 02:56:51 what about crypto Jul 22 02:57:07 destinal: i've heard it's a useful technology ... ;-) Jul 22 02:57:22 what assumptions can we make.. Jul 22 02:57:30 our directory can't be read by a rogue app Jul 22 02:57:31 cphelps: why is that key? Why does it *have* to be done from the phone? How many feed locations will there be? Jul 22 02:57:38 destinal: the stuff in my repository will be signed or not, it will be up to the programmer. Jul 22 02:57:55 cphelps: the app installer itself has to be installed from a computer Jul 22 02:58:02 cphelps: hopefully you're using ssl then Jul 22 02:58:04 drnull_: it doesn't have to be done from the phone, it's just a lot easier. The palm-install situation teaches us that Jul 22 02:58:18 drnull_: that's the beginning, yes Jul 22 02:58:30 I propose that adding feeds can require a host computer (or at least native root access to the shell), but updating an existing feed and installing apps from an existing feed must be able to be done on the phone without root access by the user. Jul 22 02:58:37 if our directory can't be read by a rogue app, we could encrypt something with a key in our dir if it can be added on install Jul 22 02:58:38 drnull_: but I've made it so that all you have to do is dev mode your phone to begin with Jul 22 02:58:51 there are some crypto functions Jul 22 02:59:18 but again another app could do all that before us Jul 22 02:59:19 sigh Jul 22 02:59:22 rwhitby: adding the installer app must be done from the usb cable, yes **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 22 02:59:56 2009