**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jul 23 02:59:57 2009 Jul 23 03:02:46 garfield was installed in the wrong folder Jul 23 03:03:05 telnet into the palm and delete the directory from /usr/palm/applications Jul 23 03:03:24 it should have been in /var/usr/palm/applications but... early days. Jul 23 03:03:50 seems like a bunch in the wrong place Jul 23 03:04:10 there was, for about a week and a half till we figured it out. Jul 23 03:04:19 remember, this was before the sdk came out public Jul 23 03:04:21 no docs. Jul 23 03:04:40 not complaining understandable Jul 23 03:06:12 have to stop/start luna for it do take effect? Jul 23 03:06:23 nodnod Jul 23 03:07:29 cool thanks precentral should have that info somewhere but my searches weren't finding it Jul 23 03:17:23 novaterm is fast hehe Jul 23 03:19:38 mojo looks like mootools a little Jul 23 03:19:45 well the coding they use Jul 23 03:30:19 PreGame: jwm != jwz Jul 23 03:54:51 Yeah novaterm is really easy Jul 23 03:56:20 ~git Jul 23 03:56:27 ~apps Jul 23 03:56:28 apps is probably at http://www.linuxapps.com Jul 23 03:56:34 ~repo Jul 23 03:56:36 The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 23 03:57:02 ~hackers Jul 23 03:57:03 hackers is probably the crapiest movie ever made. Please refer to War Games for a better movie. Jul 23 03:57:09 LOL!!! Jul 23 03:59:31 s/War Games/WarGames/ Jul 23 04:20:45 destinal: where is liboptware Jul 23 04:20:57 liboptware? Jul 23 04:22:00 you mean the idea of an ipkg library linkable with a c++ service? Jul 23 04:22:34 no i thought you said you already wrote it Jul 23 04:22:53 no, alas, I was brainstorming Jul 23 04:22:54 sorry Jul 23 04:23:07 oh Jul 23 04:23:09 no prob Jul 23 04:23:19 i just wanted to see what i need to implement in java Jul 23 04:23:20 should be very easy to take the ipkg code and make a lib out of it though Jul 23 04:23:28 no need for a lib Jul 23 04:23:30 PuffTheMagic: no c++ headers yet? Jul 23 04:23:31 alas Jul 23 04:23:33 since we have no native support yet Jul 23 04:23:38 but i can do this in java no prob Jul 23 04:23:45 really prob wont make a difference Jul 23 04:23:55 its not like its a realtime app Jul 23 04:23:58 destinal: libipkg already exists Jul 23 04:24:02 or something that need low latency Jul 23 04:24:04 *on* the Pre Jul 23 04:24:08 rwhitby: ah, cool Jul 23 04:24:10 there you go Jul 23 04:24:16 bzhou * r10482 optware/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): nmap: 4.68 -> 5.00 Jul 23 04:24:27 I guess I should have figured it would already be modular Jul 23 04:24:34 http://www.finkproject.org/pdb/package.php/libipkg-dev Jul 23 04:24:37 :D Jul 23 04:24:45 well still Jul 23 04:24:51 i dont actually NEED libipkg Jul 23 04:25:02 could you use jni? Jul 23 04:25:04 i just wanted to know what I should be provding in the java service Jul 23 04:25:15 jni?? you mean system calls? Jul 23 04:25:33 err linking java code with c++, I haven't done much of it but they tell me it works Jul 23 04:25:44 yeah i've never done that either Jul 23 04:25:55 but thats how swt/swing/awt work Jul 23 04:25:59 so it must be possible Jul 23 04:26:25 if you want to prototype something quickly you could just wrap system calls to ipkg -o /var Jul 23 04:26:31 libipkg works with ipkg-optware? sorry, i really dont know jack yet about ipkg-optware Jul 23 04:26:51 PuffTheMagic: we're not using ipkg-opt anyway, this is a regular standard ipkg in a different dir Jul 23 04:27:03 ohhh Jul 23 04:27:12 PuffTheMagic: there is a built-in libipkg and an optware one, both on the Pre Jul 23 04:27:15 what is "special" about ipkg-opt? Jul 23 04:27:28 it looks under /opt Jul 23 04:27:44 rwhitby: isn't it more or less -o /opt but hard-coded? Jul 23 04:27:57 destinal: pretty much Jul 23 04:28:17 PuffTheMagic: so the apps ipkg library is -o /var Jul 23 04:28:34 so similar thing as we do they've got a secondary ipkg lib in a nonstandard directory Jul 23 04:28:43 we didn't realize that until recently :) Jul 23 04:28:53 destinal: ipkg-opt looks under /opt for config, but can write outside of /opt. the optware packages do most stuff under /opt by convention Jul 23 04:29:11 ah right, so -o /var makes the installed root for everything var instead of / Jul 23 04:29:17 yep Jul 23 04:30:03 are there any docs about ipkg so i doint have to bother you guys about it Jul 23 04:30:06 which is why all the ipkgs reference /usr when they end up in /var/usr. apparently the first emulator didn't have the distinction so I think this is how they preserved compatibility with the original paths Jul 23 04:30:12 -o /opt doesn't work if any paths compiled into the apps are still looking in /etc instead of /opt/etc Jul 23 04:30:14 i feel like im a month+ behind you all Jul 23 04:30:17 at the minimum Jul 23 04:30:47 since webos apps don't have compiled in paths, they can use -o /var Jul 23 04:31:09 ~google ipkg Jul 23 04:31:17 .... can i interrupt for a second... I have another "idea" Jul 23 04:31:25 ~ipkg Jul 23 04:31:26 from memory, ipkg is the Itsy Package Management system: http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG or find the source in the handhelds.org CVS http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/familiar/dist/ipkg or see the howto at http://docs.zaurus.com/ipkg_howto.shtml Jul 23 04:32:57 idk if any of you are familiar with drupal, but drupal (a content managment system) has about 10000000 modules to add features, one of them is an excellent project management system with issue tracking integration.... they also have a very sweet fileframework api and a shit load of services to export aspect of the site including json and REST like stuff Jul 23 04:33:10 i really really thing we need something like that to manage all this stuff Jul 23 04:33:21 git isnt really gonna cut it for releases for apps Jul 23 04:33:24 and the wiki wont either Jul 23 04:33:40 git is great for devel work with multi users Jul 23 04:33:50 but i dont think the end users shoudl really have to bother with it Jul 23 04:34:00 PuffTheMagic: sure, for app development you want the git version of Trac Jul 23 04:34:30 but for package feeds, the ipkg Packages file format is the standard. Jul 23 04:34:32 rwhitby: I forgot, itsy, wasn't that a DEC handheld? Jul 23 04:34:38 just like rfc822 is the standard for email Jul 23 04:34:46 rwhitby: we can keep the ipkg format Jul 23 04:34:49 ~itsy Jul 23 04:34:51 well, itsy is the spritual predecessor of the iPAQ - a small research prototype. More information is at http://handhelds.org/Compaq/#Itsy_Summary Jul 23 04:34:51 destinal: dunno, predates me Jul 23 04:35:00 PuffTheMagic: the Packages file format Jul 23 04:35:08 yeah... that does not have to change Jul 23 04:35:09 oh compaq, close enough Jul 23 04:35:28 but we should still store them somewhere besides the git repo Jul 23 04:35:32 PuffTheMagic: doesn't matter how http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages is created. Jul 23 04:35:43 that's the "submission" leg of the three-legged stool Jul 23 04:35:53 Submission, Feed, Installer. Jul 23 04:36:02 preware.org is the "Feed" part of that. Jul 23 04:36:10 there are at least 4 people working on Installers. Jul 23 04:36:34 ok...i will stay out of this Jul 23 04:36:36 Rick_ is thinking about Submission (in a way that populates the Feed, rather than like PreCentral does it now) Jul 23 04:37:22 there is no need to think about submission, drupals project module can handle all that and we could still have feeds and the ipkg stuff Jul 23 04:37:53 (BTW, preware.org is just *one* feed, for Free, Libre Open Source applications only - there will be many other feeds, including Palm's) Jul 23 04:38:05 PuffTheMagic: please intercept Rick_, he was thinking some custom forms for submission. Jul 23 04:38:15 if there is an off-the-shelf solution, even better Jul 23 04:39:39 well drupal project module could organize all the apps/projects, allows users to see all verions, i could write another module to make a feed out of all this Jul 23 04:39:51 the fileframe work already works based on md5 fingerprints Jul 23 04:40:05 it can categorize al the apps Jul 23 04:40:30 who owns webosinternals.org Jul 23 04:40:51 PuffTheMagic: a number of people here run the server that hosts that domain. Jul 23 04:41:00 PuffTheMagic: I can get DNS entries added. Jul 23 04:41:31 PuffTheMagic: I can also get other packages installed and configured on that server. Jul 23 04:41:35 rwhitby: well if you add something like preware.webosinternals.org to my servers IP i can get a proof of concept up in the next day or so Jul 23 04:42:29 PuffTheMagic: I can point www.preware.org there if it works out to be what we're looking for, Jul 23 04:42:47 and we link to that from the existing wiki Jul 23 04:42:51 well if it works out, i would imagine you would want to transfer it to your server Jul 23 04:43:07 PuffTheMagic: the same server serves preware.org :-) Jul 23 04:43:33 i mean if you point a dns to my server while I get the POC working Jul 23 04:43:40 if you like it... it should go on the real server Jul 23 04:43:42 the domains are separate, in case preware.org gets a cease and desist, in which case webosinternals.org is not affected. Jul 23 04:44:29 PuffTheMagic: just do the PoC on any domain, we can rename later? Jul 23 04:45:00 the domain is arbitrary... its the location of the user db and all the content Jul 23 04:45:10 PuffTheMagic: and do get Rick_'s input - he's been thinking about this a bit Jul 23 04:45:27 PuffTheMagic: we can host a mysql db Jul 23 04:45:29 Rick_: ping me in the am about this Jul 23 04:45:39 rwhitby: yeah drupal needs php/mysql Jul 23 04:45:49 PuffTheMagic: just like mediawiki :-) Jul 23 04:45:54 k Jul 23 04:46:00 (so it's all there already) Jul 23 04:46:38 rwhitby: so wanna set up a A-Name to my server? Jul 23 04:47:41 PuffTheMagic: we're in the middle of a DNS nameserver transition right now, so it would be tomorrow at earliest. Jul 23 04:47:50 k Jul 23 04:47:57 i will ping you about it tomorrow Jul 23 04:48:17 I just moved my domains over Jul 23 04:48:27 they screwed up on my buddies Jul 23 04:48:39 took them a week to rectify it hehe Jul 23 04:49:14 jwm: we have people here at both ends :-) Jul 23 04:49:23 no companies involved. Jul 23 04:54:41 rwhitby: you guys run apache or lighttpd? Jul 23 04:56:13 rwhitby: so for preare... should we have the same categories as the app catalog? Jul 23 04:56:24 or is there already a lit Jul 23 04:56:25 list Jul 23 04:56:31 should it be free tag Jul 23 04:56:44 * PuffTheMagic is not really a fan of free tagging Jul 23 04:58:32 free tagging bad. Jul 23 04:58:40 categories in the wiki are plenty extensive enough. Jul 23 04:59:05 PuffTheMagic: apache at the moment Jul 23 04:59:56 so those are the same as the palm app catalog it seems Jul 23 05:00:03 rwhitby, I moved all the orphans on the wiki into misc... there are now 115 pages in misc. I edited the CONVERSION page to lead people there to help with sorting now that the conversion process is done. Jul 23 05:00:03 ok no prob Jul 23 05:00:15 At the same time, we need to start searching out "root" --- Jul 23 05:00:29 Rick_: ? what do you mean Jul 23 05:00:49 lots of the pages on the wiki that are conversion use "rooting" Jul 23 05:00:54 we're eliding that term. Jul 23 05:01:34 and yes PuffTheMagic we chose those to match the palm app catalog Jul 23 05:01:39 it really looked like a good list. Jul 23 05:01:43 good call Jul 23 05:01:49 i have no prob with that Jul 23 05:02:43 * jwm runs nginx Jul 23 05:03:14 jwm: apache at the moment cause it's the only one that does x509 client certificate authentication properly. Jul 23 05:03:40 PuffTheMagic, I want to talk to you about submissions protocal and architecture for preware. but not tonight Jul 23 05:03:45 it's 0003 and I've got to go crash Jul 23 05:03:59 but in principle drupal projects works fine for me. Jul 23 05:04:16 Rick_: i will be around tomorrow Jul 23 05:04:20 I'm going to write up a description tommorow of how I think the submissions process should go, Jul 23 05:04:46 and we can hash it over... the software and web side is near trivial. The user-interface and the PHILOSOPHICAL decisions are the critical parts. Jul 23 05:04:48 you guys are too productive Jul 23 05:04:51 you need to tone it down a bit Jul 23 05:05:00 lol Jul 23 05:05:09 i think we are all excited Jul 23 05:05:14 i like OSS projects Jul 23 05:05:27 and i have been waiting for an open device like the pre for years Jul 23 05:05:33 i cant run a nokia n810 in the US Jul 23 05:05:41 not on Sprint at least Jul 23 05:05:49 linux in my hand.... :D Jul 23 05:05:54 cant get any better than that Jul 23 05:06:25 I was first an OS/2 lover then freebsd Jul 23 05:06:31 and all the bsds Jul 23 05:06:32 hated linux Jul 23 05:06:41 i never got into bsd Jul 23 05:06:41 446 pages on the wiki Jul 23 05:06:42 now I'm a linux fan I guess Jul 23 05:06:44 hey guys, can i get your opinions on a cleanup of the wiki's sidebar? http://webos-internals.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Sidebar Jul 23 05:06:54 more of an open source guy Jul 23 05:07:10 48K page views in uh, 2 days? Jul 23 05:07:11 wow. Jul 23 05:07:12 I want to make money producing/releasing code heh Jul 23 05:07:46 rick: webos is just awesome that way Jul 23 05:08:28 jwm - so do I Jul 23 05:08:43 but you have to have a commercial idea and a phenominal implementation. Jul 23 05:08:54 or be very lucky. Jul 23 05:09:05 but you can't be first with an iphone fart app any more.... Jul 23 05:09:28 X1011, I like it. Jul 23 05:09:41 can you ask tommrowo when Templarian is up Jul 23 05:09:52 tell him I said yes, and ask his opinion Jul 23 05:09:58 if he says yes, then one of us will do it. Jul 23 05:10:30 I'm off to bed now. Jul 23 05:10:31 Rick_: k Jul 23 05:10:35 night Jul 23 05:10:37 night Jul 23 05:10:51 PuffTheMagic, I will have a functional spec for you by tommorow sometime. Jul 23 05:11:22 (( a description of the submissions process, not a graphic design of the submissions page. Not a graphics guy.)) Jul 23 05:14:44 i added a-name on my dns Jul 23 05:14:49 should be working in a few hours Jul 23 05:14:57 but if you add 134.155.50.250 in your /etc/hosts Jul 23 05:15:05 and point that to preware.zen-sources.org Jul 23 05:15:12 you can peep at my progress Jul 23 05:15:21 that wont be needed by the am though Jul 23 05:18:51 it works for me Jul 23 05:19:02 is it a new host? those are typically instant Jul 23 05:19:27 works for me Jul 23 05:19:40 no.. not a new host Jul 23 05:19:45 i've had it for a while Jul 23 05:19:54 but yeah it propagates pretty fast usually Jul 23 05:19:59 zoneedit ftw Jul 23 05:20:00 :D Jul 23 05:20:13 PuffTheMagic: heh, I use them too for my personal sites. Jul 23 05:20:33 yeah i get a domain or 2 a year and they are all on that site Jul 23 05:23:16 yyyyyyo Jul 23 06:20:01 quick question. I'm in root on the pre, i was looking at the .git/config file. Using sudo vi /opt/src/modifications/.git/config Jul 23 06:20:01 How do I get out break out of this command? Jul 23 06:22:40 doesn't work. it's in some kind of edit mode. is there some kind of key sequence? Jul 23 06:27:36 pre escape Jul 23 06:27:38 the : Jul 23 06:27:40 then q Jul 23 06:27:46 s/the/then/ Jul 23 06:27:46 PuffTheMagic meant: thenn q Jul 23 06:30:25 thanks, didn't get to try that just shut down session before i modified that file too much Jul 23 06:58:48 evening all Jul 23 06:59:52 Downloaded 114.0 megabytes in 48 seconds. (2426.92 KB/s) Jul 23 07:01:29 yea Jul 23 07:01:33 i get that @ my house Jul 23 07:01:34 :P Jul 23 07:02:07 wiki looks awesome. Jul 23 07:14:37 :D Jul 23 07:18:29 oc80z: yeah, the guys doing the wiki in this project are about 5 times better than the last open source project I was involved in ... Jul 23 07:18:51 (no offence to the other guys from the previous project) Jul 23 07:19:13 it's definately more appealing to look at and easier to navigate Jul 23 07:20:55 why do wives have to be such bitches Jul 23 07:20:58 geeze Jul 23 07:25:25 •••â€hehe seige Jul 23 07:39:37 ok, the terminal is pretty rough right now but it works for simple things. it's not even an alpha and no ipk, but if you follow applications git repository, check it out Jul 23 07:41:07 when you can run ssh -> irssi with the terminal it's good enough (note: haven't tried, don't know if it does that) ;) Jul 23 07:41:09 I'm going to bed though, already too late to get much sleep before work :-/ Jul 23 07:42:39 zomg: I haven't tried. it runs top reliably but there's an issue about lines wrapping over themselves.. anyway, pre-alpha, YMMV. Jul 23 07:43:09 lots of credit to mrvc Jul 23 07:56:13 * seige slaps destinal around a bit with a large trout Jul 23 08:43:30 X1011_: are you intending for your wiki summary lines to read as confrontational, or am i just misreading the tone of them? Jul 23 08:45:55 X1011_: maybe I'm misreading the tone based on too small a sample size :-) Jul 23 08:47:20 lol, no, i'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to keep the mood light Jul 23 08:47:31 X1011_: no probs :-) Jul 23 08:48:09 X1011_: I realised after I checked the diff and saw the section that was deleted :-) Jul 23 08:49:08 hehe Jul 23 09:00:39 hehh Jul 23 09:07:38 destinal, mrvc, PuffTheMagic: awesome work on the terminal - I just tested it on the Emulator. Jul 23 09:07:57 it's in PreCentral front-page state already. Jul 23 09:43:55 :D Jul 23 09:43:57 * oc80z back Jul 23 09:51:14 wakey wakey Jul 23 09:51:16 eggs and bakey Jul 23 10:07:25 oc80z: quit holdin out Jul 23 10:10:48 mmm, eggs and bakey Jul 23 10:15:15 :DDDD Jul 23 10:15:21 *n0m* *n0m* *n0m* *n0m* Jul 23 10:17:29 hows the twitter going Jul 23 10:21:28 cuz i got the k's Jul 23 10:21:30 w00t Jul 23 10:25:07 mrvc: could you please set your user.email config in git? Jul 23 10:25:36 destinal: same with you :-) Jul 23 10:26:37 ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward) Jul 23 10:30:00 hrm Jul 23 10:30:03 do i --force Jul 23 10:33:02 yea no write access Jul 23 10:33:17 for profile.aliases Jul 23 10:33:53 you generally dont want to force anyway Jul 23 10:33:59 unless you really know what you're doing Jul 23 10:34:13 like, you're rebasing that branch Jul 23 10:34:55 it can always revert heh Jul 23 10:35:30 not if you push over it Jul 23 10:35:46 git push is pretty much the only destructive command in the git arsenal Jul 23 10:36:11 waa Jul 23 10:36:58 so the non-fast forward is what Jul 23 10:37:18 means you're pushing a commit that isn't a child of the one that you're pushing over Jul 23 10:37:31 commonly this means someone else pushed before you Jul 23 10:37:38 and you need to rebase your changes on top of theirs Jul 23 10:37:42 resolve the change, then push Jul 23 10:38:03 wierd. Jul 23 10:41:15 ill start from scratch Jul 23 10:52:26 want to help me out with this real quick Jul 23 10:53:18 cause im not sure if i should either git clone bootstrap.sh, create (or link) a file in the bootstrap/etc/profile.d/aliases.profile initfile, or just work in my existing /etc/ Jul 23 10:53:25 (existing /etc/profile.d/ Jul 23 10:58:00 ... Jul 23 10:58:01 Push url: git@gitorious.org:~oc80z/webos-internals/oc80zs-bs.git Jul 23 10:58:08 do it like dat? Jul 23 10:58:11 Ugk Jul 23 10:58:36 hell no Jul 23 10:58:44 i tested the keys and thats ok Jul 23 11:33:57 oc80z: what are you trying to do ? Jul 23 11:42:15 Good morning eveyronew Jul 23 11:42:29 :( Jul 23 11:42:52 stupid stupid company i work with now bid wayyy to much for this contract Jul 23 11:43:04 now theres no way i can jusityf the cost :( Jul 23 11:44:17 oh NO Jul 23 12:31:18 rw: push that aliases.profile Jul 23 12:35:38 bblz Jul 23 12:40:09 i'm currently thinking about getting a pre Jul 23 12:40:26 one of the main things i do with my current smartphone (nokia e70) is use ssh Jul 23 12:40:29 with symbian putty Jul 23 12:40:42 if i was to get a pre, what are my options ssh client wise? Jul 23 12:41:04 i looks like you can root the pre, and thus use the openssh client, right? Jul 23 12:41:18 but how does that fit in with the phone's regular UI Jul 23 12:41:57 and more generally, is the keyboard up to the task of ssh (ctrl, alt, shift, esc, | etc.) Jul 23 12:42:30 what keyboard Jul 23 12:43:01 http://mobinttechno.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/palm-pre-first-wireless-charged-phone.jpg that one Jul 23 12:43:32 the "keyboard" you're referring to isn't really a keyboard Jul 23 12:43:43 and what ui? Jul 23 12:43:50 there is no ui for ssh on the pre Jul 23 12:44:04 what do you use ssh for? Jul 23 12:44:14 on the e70 Jul 23 12:44:19 Timbo: as far as I know, you can install a web server, and a web based terminal. Then, you would use it thru Safari Jul 23 12:44:30 Or something along those lines anyway. Jul 23 12:44:37 yeah there's no built in ui though Jul 23 12:45:11 There was some discussion regarding some terminal a while back and it sounded like it's pretty decent Jul 23 12:45:16 ultraBlack: shelling in to various servers to use irc/mutt among others Jul 23 12:45:20 webshell? Jul 23 12:45:37 Not sure which one but I would assume it was some web based one Jul 23 12:45:46 i've googled a bit and most people say the web based ssh clients don't really work all that well on the pre Jul 23 12:45:48 webshell runs through the browser Jul 23 12:45:51 i have it on my pre Jul 23 12:45:59 hmm ok Jul 23 12:46:09 Timbo: tbh you're out of luck regarding ssh on most smartphones :P Jul 23 12:46:10 and yes, it doesn't work that well Jul 23 12:46:22 I have a winmo phone with pocketputty and while it works it isn't very good Jul 23 12:46:35 zomg: well, it's pretty good on my e70 Jul 23 12:46:41 but the phone is slow Jul 23 12:46:49 ya what's the ssh client you use on that? Jul 23 12:46:50 and it's symbian so the browser is fairly cruddy Jul 23 12:46:55 symbian putty Jul 23 12:47:00 hm will have to check it out Jul 23 12:47:40 gonna see problems with it tho unless it has some tricks to allow you send ctrl+key and alt+key =) Jul 23 12:47:49 of course the e70 has the party trick of a fold out qwerty keyboard (or whatever you want to call it :P) which makes things easier Jul 23 12:48:08 the e70 has a ctrl key Jul 23 12:48:19 and you can get other combinations with the menus Jul 23 12:48:27 ah sounds nice Jul 23 12:48:33 which is only needed for alt really Jul 23 12:48:34 I wonder why the winmo version of putty didn't have that Jul 23 12:48:49 Ya I have a N97 from work I can use and while it has a qwerty keyboard I don't think any of the keys represent ctrl Jul 23 12:49:06 hmm odd Jul 23 12:49:26 the e70 is frustrating because it's a nice bit of hardware (albeit a bit slow) Jul 23 12:49:35 but nokia bit bugger all for it support wise Jul 23 12:49:41 s/bit/did/ Jul 23 12:49:41 Timbo meant: but nokia did bugger all for it support wise Jul 23 12:49:50 thanks infobot Jul 23 12:50:06 infobot: cookie Jul 23 12:50:08 Hey timbo, find us nerds with no lives some chicks is Oh, like thats possible! Jul 23 12:50:15 hur, silly bot Jul 23 12:56:17 oc80z, so are you really from the Boston area? Jul 23 13:33:42 is plugins/adapters on the wiki suppose to be linking to "Portal:Patches_to_webOS" Jul 23 13:45:53 hmm Jul 23 13:46:01 y and u send same keycode in the terminal Jul 23 13:46:09 but yes Jul 23 13:46:13 omg great work Jul 23 13:48:04 PuffTheMagic: yeah there's a bug in the emulator Jul 23 13:48:14 try it on a pre Jul 23 13:48:21 oh yreally it works there :D Jul 23 13:48:41 if you go to device info, more info, run interactive tests Jul 23 13:49:00 you see the same problem in Palm's diag software, it's the emulator's key events, not the term plugin Jul 23 13:49:12 oh Jul 23 13:51:15 glad it's working for you -- driving to work Jul 23 14:56:42 bzhou * r10483 optware/trunk/make/nmap.mk: nmap: manually strip ncat Jul 23 15:00:27 bzhou * r10484 optware/trunk/make/nmap.mk: nmap: corrected ndiff #! path Jul 23 15:18:49 hey everyone, anyone around to answer a quick question? Jul 23 15:19:29 Just go ahead and ask the question. Jul 23 15:19:50 trying to find out the ip address so I can ssh into the phone Jul 23 15:22:25 It's on wifi? Jul 23 15:22:54 yeah Jul 23 15:23:16 figured there was a way to check on the phone itself, dont want to bug IT since I am here at work. Jul 23 15:23:51 1) Open up the wifi preferences. Jul 23 15:24:07 2) Tap on the network you're connected to Jul 23 15:24:11 3) read :) Jul 23 15:24:41 doh Jul 23 15:25:03 thankz Jul 23 15:25:06 no problem. Jul 23 15:25:20 and goodbye? *shrug* Jul 23 15:56:44 anyone running emulator in a win64 environment Jul 23 16:06:15 oc80z: quite a few. Jul 23 16:06:26 oc80z: what flavor? Jul 23 16:09:59 Hey everyone, it's been a while Jul 23 16:13:06 imop45: it sure has... Jul 23 16:13:36 Well, i went through 2 more palm pre, and this one is a keeper Jul 23 16:14:00 lol, good to hear. Jul 23 16:14:02 hey pcemkr: Also there is a DynDNS page how-to on the wiki, so you don't have to look up the wifi IP all the time. Jul 23 16:15:09 Yes, and this one barely has any wobble. Jul 23 16:15:11 damn ipkg files have not mime type Jul 23 16:15:18 at least not one picked up my file -i Jul 23 16:15:31 imop45: the wobble is normal it's a slider lol. Jul 23 16:15:57 Someone said on engadget that it can be tightened. Jul 23 16:16:44 Yeah but this one *barely* does. and there's no marks on the mirror either. (check to see if yours shows a line on the mirror) Jul 23 16:17:24 imop45: nope no marks... but the mirror is just a gimmick. Jul 23 16:17:52 * Templarian enjoys his lunch and fig newtons. Jul 23 16:18:03 Templarian: got a link of tightening it? Jul 23 16:18:26 Hmm, well then. On the sprint demo's and my 3 previous pre's it looked like it was grinding into the mirror. Jul 23 16:18:37 Guys if you didn't already check out googles front page. Jul 23 16:19:52 Templarian: It's a gimmick, but works great in shutting kids up. Jul 23 16:22:07 how's the SDK compared to the old webos doctor method? Jul 23 16:23:33 imop45: you don't use the old way, the wiki has been updates to reflect that. Jul 23 16:23:37 Hey do i uninstall the novaproxy b4 installing the SDK? Jul 23 16:23:53 imop45: it does it for you. Jul 23 16:24:09 ok, thanks. How is the new system? Jul 23 16:24:24 PuffTheMagic: i tooked online and can't find anything must of been a rumor. Jul 23 16:24:45 imop45: I don't know, <- early access from start. lol. Jul 23 16:32:27 mrvc: ping Jul 23 16:34:53 [ping timeout] Jul 23 16:41:21 I'm sorry, Java seems to be crashing my computer Jul 23 16:42:07 Ok, so why aren't they allowing untill fall? Jul 23 16:51:01 ? Jul 23 16:51:08 what was his q Jul 23 16:52:05 Who's? Jul 23 17:00:29 does 'file -i somedebpackage.deb' say application/x-debian-package for anyone Jul 23 17:00:41 or is it application/octet-stream for everyone Jul 23 17:06:14 @puff should I type that command exactly? Jul 23 17:07:21 what folder is that in Jul 23 17:08:06 Mine shows -sh: file: not found Jul 23 17:15:03 ok, so palm-generate isn't working, although the emulator is working fine Jul 23 17:15:39 What should i do? Jul 23 17:15:46 for what? Jul 23 17:15:51 palm-package . Jul 23 17:15:56 make an ipkg Jul 23 17:16:56 i'm not sure, the palm website says that if palm-generrate doesn't work, then i didn't install the tools correctly Jul 23 17:17:29 why are you running it... idk what its fore Jul 23 17:17:55 ohh it jsut creates a new app seed Jul 23 17:18:20 I'm just wanting to add apps to my pre. Hack into it. Jul 23 17:19:16 thats not what palm-generate does Jul 23 17:19:37 I haven't messed with hacking since the old old way. WebOS doctor, novaterm and subversions Jul 23 17:19:39 you want palm-install probably Jul 23 17:20:03 palm-generate is for staring a new program from scratch Jul 23 17:20:16 Open a command-line window (Start > Run > cmd) and type palm-generate to verify that the tools are installed. Jul 23 17:20:18 If help information appears, the tools are correctly installed. Jul 23 17:20:19 If palm-generate is not recognized as a command, the tools are not correctly installed. Jul 23 17:21:21 well... you still dont needthat to install an app Jul 23 17:21:29 but sounds like your PATH is not complete Jul 23 17:22:57 Ah ok. Also, have packages have been created for the various hacks, like allowing call durations and new launcher pages. Jul 23 17:23:02 ? Jul 23 17:23:14 Or do you still need to do that manuelly? Jul 23 17:29:18 i have an ipkg for enabling/disabling dev mode Jul 23 17:29:25 and for keeping the display on when power is connected Jul 23 17:29:33 idk what else there is yet Jul 23 17:33:05 Well, on the old wiki there was things like adding extra launch pages, ondemand cpu feq, show call duration in phone app, etc Jul 23 17:39:05 ok, ..i'm lost here. I'm on the "Next steps" to "Automated Setup of Optware, Users and Access" and i am confused as to how to use putty Jul 23 17:40:16 Ive used putty before but don't kno how to with this new system Jul 23 17:40:51 there is nothing different Jul 23 17:40:57 you just ssh into your pre Jul 23 17:41:06 hmm... nothing Jul 23 17:41:07 after you get dropbear running Jul 23 17:41:13 its on port 222 Jul 23 17:41:40 Oh yes thank you. Hey its been a while Jul 23 17:42:42 anyone know why every reboot my palm re-sets /media/internal back to a fresh reinstall? re; http://tinyurl.com/ko8tmu Jul 23 17:43:12 Connection time out.. I dont have any users set up as this is a new pre Jul 23 17:45:25 imop45: then use novaterm to add a user Jul 23 17:47:08 Where s novaterm? Jul 23 17:50:13 I dont know how to get to novaterm Jul 23 17:57:06 Should be in the PalmSDK no ? Jul 23 17:57:26 are you on wiki page step3 ? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Jul 23 18:03:33 'Ok, back. Where would i find novaterm? Jul 23 18:03:42 is the proper extension ipkg or ipk Jul 23 18:04:43 ps -ef Jul 23 18:05:09 Yeah, in putty ive tried telnet also-nothing Jul 23 18:05:09 hey all, I'm getting palm-install: FAILED_NOT_ENOUGH_INSTALL_SPACE when trying to install a package using palm-install on the device...any ideas? Do I need to mount /opt in loopback? Jul 23 18:07:41 hey finder, how do i find novaterm? Jul 23 18:07:57 on windows? no clue, sorry. I've just used it on linux Jul 23 18:08:05 you can maybe search the C: drive for novaterm Jul 23 18:08:45 Hmm... i have linux also. I'm trying to access my pre.. ive downloaded the SDK, etc.. Jul 23 18:10:24 for linux it's in /opt/Palm/novacom/novaterm Jul 23 18:10:54 imop45_: ^ Jul 23 18:11:22 hmm.. i have novacom installed from the old way of rooting Jul 23 18:11:56 I run windowsXP and I launch novaproxy.py from my temp folder, not sure if that detail helps or not Jul 23 18:12:14 then I don't know that you can use novaterm, I don't know...I just started this this week, sorry. :-/ Jul 23 18:12:54 Hmm, ok, so python Jul 23 18:13:00 imop45_: You may want to follow the new instructions for getting linux access by installing the SDK Jul 23 18:13:30 I have installed, im on the "next steps" page.. Jul 23 18:13:42 imop45_: Palm's instructions have you install Novacom from a .deb Jul 23 18:14:07 imop45_: And then novaterm is set up on your path appropriately Jul 23 18:15:34 ok, for the SDK: i updated java, installed virtual box then installed Mojo.. The emulator works great, etc, but on the "Automated Setup of Optware, Users and Access" page pon the wiki, i'm stuck. I'm trying to use Putty with vista Jul 23 18:17:28 So you believe your SSH server is running on the pre? By default it's port 222 so you need to set that in putty. Jul 23 18:18:19 Right, but i haven't set up a user though. All i've done is enter Dev Mode, installed the SDK, and followed all of those steps. Jul 23 18:19:12 Ok, did you install Novacom as part of the steps you followed to install the SDK? Jul 23 18:19:15 is there a listing of app catalog apps yet? Jul 23 18:20:11 There was no instruction to do that, but i have found the novacom files in the Palm/SDK/Bin folder and installed the drivers Jul 23 18:20:25 oh, sorry, this is a little offtopic I see... Jul 23 18:21:10 sep: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:webOS_Applications Jul 23 18:21:24 imop45_: This page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux links to the Palm SDK instructions in step 2. It's in there where it tells to install Novacom. Jul 23 18:22:37 imop45_: Here's the acutal page for installing on linux: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1585. See "3. Download Novacom". Jul 23 18:22:43 step 2:# Make sure VirtualBox is not running before starting the Palm SDK Installer. I am running windows Jul 23 18:22:57 imop45_: Oh my bad, I thought you were on linux Jul 23 18:23:26 No, no, ltm. Do you run windows? Jul 23 18:24:26 No -- I'm on linux myself. heh Jul 23 18:24:38 imop45_: thanks. But is there no official app catalog listing available? Jul 23 18:24:45 Grrr... Jul 23 18:25:12 Sep: Like an application for the pre that lets you download homebrew apps? Jul 23 18:25:27 Anyone here running windows and can help me? Jul 23 18:26:09 Dunnoo, I thaught there was an official app catalog like for the iphone Jul 23 18:26:35 there is an official app catalog... Jul 23 18:27:37 sepisultrum: do you have a device? Jul 23 18:27:38 Do you not own a pre sep? Jul 23 18:29:45 sepisulttum: Step 1: go buy a pre. Step 2: rejoice. Step 3: smash your iphone Jul 23 18:30:24 sepisultrum: if you don't have a pre, however, there's no way to see what's in the current official app store Jul 23 18:30:54 summatu-eh..its not very eventful in their anywayd Jul 23 18:31:30 well, perhaps not, but still, it'd be nice for people without a pre to se what's available Jul 23 18:31:48 summatusmentis: unfortunately I'm in europe :/ Jul 23 18:31:57 sepisultrum: ah Jul 23 18:31:59 Yes, thats why he needs to follow my steps Jul 23 18:32:14 Oh, its only a few weeks off then for EU, right? Jul 23 18:32:20 imop45_: your steps don't help the cautious consumer :) Jul 23 18:32:55 Revision- Step 1: go buy a pre. Step 2: rejoice. Step 3: sell your iphone Jul 23 18:32:58 summatusmenti: strange that palm doesn't have a web interface to their catalog to brag about the apps... Jul 23 18:33:37 sepisultrum: not really, apple's interface is through iTunes, the web interface for android is provided by a third party Jul 23 18:33:53 it's not uncommon for the compnay not to provide a web interface Jul 23 18:33:54 i dont think they want to brag just yet.. Jul 23 18:33:55 hmm, ok Jul 23 18:34:22 summatusmentis: soow many apps are there ? Jul 23 18:34:46 Not many, will be tons more when 1.1 is released. Jul 23 18:34:51 I don't know, I don't have a pre either Jul 23 18:34:56 Sep-the pre is amazing though. Really is. It's a complete linux box basically. 30 apps about Jul 23 18:34:59 is it difficult to get an app into the catalog? Jul 23 18:35:12 palm is not currently accepting apps into their store Jul 23 18:35:18 they will, but just not yet Jul 23 18:35:25 imop45_: I'm waiting....and I'm fucking impatient Jul 23 18:35:35 I'm not sure why, but apps aren't here untill about fall. Jul 23 18:35:45 sepisultrum: is your app done I suppose lol... just pefect it. Jul 23 18:36:17 imop45_: I assume because they just released sdk, and they may not have the infrastructure up yet Jul 23 18:36:20 is there a terminal emulator yet? Jul 23 18:36:26 no Jul 23 18:36:30 temp: Why are they waiting untill fall? Jul 23 18:36:35 not that I'm aware of Jul 23 18:36:46 summatusmentis: hmmm, that sucks Jul 23 18:36:46 imop45_: obvious reasons really. lol. Jul 23 18:37:12 Parts of the software still need work and systems have to be put in place. Jul 23 18:37:30 But it was given to early developers though. Seems like theyd have time to build an app. why not release an app when it's ready? Jul 23 18:37:45 a terminal? Jul 23 18:37:48 imop45_: they will when 1.1 comes out for them. Jul 23 18:37:57 But all others have to wait. Jul 23 18:38:02 Templarian: why will there be tons more when 1.1 is released? Jul 23 18:38:03 Isn't there the terminal for the Web application? Ajax? Jul 23 18:38:22 destinal: because that's what peoples apps are based on. lol. Jul 23 18:38:36 imop45_: what do you mean by that? Jul 23 18:38:47 destinal: current devices don't have accelerometer and a bunch of random api's right now so they can't release the apps. Jul 23 18:39:05 1.0.4 is missing a lot of random stuff that the sdk has. Jul 23 18:39:06 Templarian: ah, well I thought the issue was more the catalog wasn't live Jul 23 18:39:11 just beta Jul 23 18:39:32 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pre_Terminal_Options Jul 23 18:39:34 destinal: patience young padwan. Jul 23 18:40:12 s/young// Jul 23 18:40:12 Templarian meant: destinal: patience padwan. Jul 23 18:40:29 Templarian: I don't mind that much but they did drop the ball Jul 23 18:40:33 It means that you can access you palm pre via a terminal in the palm pre's web browser Jul 23 18:40:49 imop45_: what does? Jul 23 18:41:01 ajaxterm Jul 23 18:41:24 destinal: not really. There was work to be done for a new OS. Bugs to fix, it was more important that palm get their phones out there. Jul 23 18:41:52 aha, so it communicates using http with a python app. why not Jul 23 18:42:27 imop45_: we also have a native mojo app but I consider it pre-alpha quality at the moment Jul 23 18:42:45 expect to see a lot more on it in the next few days Jul 23 18:42:49 Hey, i need help accessing my pre-I'm running windows and have putty, but get connection errors. Ive followed the steps to install the SDK Jul 23 18:43:00 Native mojo? What is that meaning? Jul 23 18:43:04 is python installed on the pre by default? Jul 23 18:43:15 imop45_: it's based on a browser plugin and wrapped in mojo Jul 23 18:43:22 runs in luna and way better idea than ajaxterm Jul 23 18:43:34 OO.. Well sep was asking about a terminal in the pre so Jul 23 18:43:58 yeah, our new term app is the way forward Jul 23 18:44:04 it's just really buggy at the moment Jul 23 18:44:15 what is it based on? Jul 23 18:44:17 Yeah, its been a few weeks since i've rooted the pre. Kept getting new one b/c the others werent working right Jul 23 18:44:25 sepisultrum: from scratch more or less Jul 23 18:44:47 ajaxterm was usefull-kinda. Jul 23 18:44:49 what architecture is it? Jul 23 18:44:58 sepisultrum: architecture? Jul 23 18:45:10 how do you mean Jul 23 18:45:12 well, is it in javascript and html? Jul 23 18:45:22 it's c++ Jul 23 18:45:27 or what libraries do you use? Jul 23 18:45:35 writes direct to the browser's draw buffer Jul 23 18:45:58 how can you output grapics and is it running in a card? Jul 23 18:46:15 Can someone please help me out. I need help accessing my pre-I'm running windows and have putty, but get connection errors. Ive followed the steps to install the SDK Jul 23 18:46:21 it runs in a card, and it outputs graphics via something called NPAPI which is a standard browser plugin framework Jul 23 18:46:45 the browser loads the plugin (a .so library) and makes calls to it Jul 23 18:46:54 destinal: is this an official method? Jul 23 18:47:05 not really I guesss Jul 23 18:47:08 I'm on the "Next Steps" page but can't install Jul 23 18:47:10 sepisultrum: it's the same method classic uses, but there's no native sdk if that's what you mean Jul 23 18:47:25 ie palm hasn't told us mere mortals how, we've figured it out Jul 23 18:47:32 hmh, so it's the same method the flash plugin uses Jul 23 18:47:51 well there's no pre flash plugin at the moment but it's similar to how a flash plugin would work in a desktop browser Jul 23 18:48:00 yeah. Jul 23 18:48:14 I have no users set up so... Jul 23 18:48:19 imop45_: You said you have the SDK installed, right? Jul 23 18:48:28 I use novaterm right? Ys, it's installed Jul 23 18:48:29 sepisultrum: you can check out the code in the webos-internals applications git repository if you want Jul 23 18:48:37 so it's possible to use all graphics libraries that compile for the pre Jul 23 18:48:46 sepisultrum: well Jul 23 18:48:49 destinal: ahh, I was going to ask :) Jul 23 18:49:03 imop45_: Yes, you need to use novaterm to connect to the pre via USB. Jul 23 18:49:10 sepisultrum: we have an RGBA pixbuf the browser hands us in a pointer Jul 23 18:49:18 But how do i use novaterm? Jul 23 18:49:21 sepisultrum: right now we're writing direct pixel values to it Jul 23 18:49:22 it's pointer madness Jul 23 18:49:31 bpadalino|work: hey Jul 23 18:49:33 hey Jul 23 18:49:49 bpadalino|work: checked out the terminal you helped on yet? :) Jul 23 18:49:59 no - what happened ? Jul 23 18:49:59 imop45_: You should execute if from a DOS command window while youre Pre is plugged into USB. Jul 23 18:50:12 i have been busy at work lately :( Jul 23 18:50:13 destinal: is there something like doublebuffering or how is the display synchronized? Jul 23 18:50:15 bpadalino|work: there's a working terminal in the git repo but it's a bit rough at the moment Jul 23 18:50:24 oh yeah? mrvc is the man, isn't he ? Jul 23 18:50:35 bpadalino|work: yes, he's done awesome work Jul 23 18:50:44 sepisultrum, return from the callback draws to the screen Jul 23 18:50:45 Not recongized Jul 23 18:50:55 ahh, ok Jul 23 18:50:56 destinal, i'll check it out .. it runs in the card and all that jazz ? Jul 23 18:51:00 bpadalino|work: he took what I had with basicplugin and ran with it Jul 23 18:51:14 I've been helping but he's way better than me :P Jul 23 18:51:15 I'd really like to contribute, but I'm waiting until I can get the gsm device Jul 23 18:51:30 he is good - he helped a LOT with the stuff i was writing Jul 23 18:51:35 mrvc is amazing. Jul 23 18:52:00 and the terminal plugin is ALSO amazing considering what he had to work with. A raw pixel buffer???? Jul 23 18:52:01 jeeez Jul 23 18:52:16 ok, guys... that's enough... :) Jul 23 18:52:22 I'm just imagining running an X server in parallel to the native webos browser/windowmanager Jul 23 18:52:38 /4op mrvc Jul 23 18:52:39 :) Jul 23 18:52:48 Rick_: what's the problem with raw pixbufs? Jul 23 18:53:00 there's no problem with raw pixbufs IMHO Jul 23 18:53:02 they're fine Jul 23 18:53:13 is there a screen cap of the terminal in action ? Jul 23 18:53:21 you could just usecairo or a font rendering lib Jul 23 18:53:38 bpadalino|work: considering it just got mostly usable last night, no Jul 23 18:53:47 ah Jul 23 18:53:49 last night Jul 23 18:53:49 cool Jul 23 18:53:53 there's no problem with them, it's just that, there's a lot more work to get a terminal working against a raw pixbuff than there is against an existing graphic library..... Jul 23 18:54:26 Rick_: well, libpiranha would be the best tool for the job Jul 23 18:54:35 but it hasn't been released yet Jul 23 18:54:36 well ok, that's true, but that's why we have rendering libs Jul 23 18:55:04 sepisultrum - but the rendering lib already ON the pre isn't oss, and they've been trying to reverse the calls for it. Jul 23 18:55:16 and palm has been stingy with the headers. Jul 23 18:55:46 and putting a _different_ rendering lib on means modifying that rendering lib to work with the pixbuff in the plugin.... Jul 23 18:55:49 mrvc: I was thinking, we could just wrap the pixbuf in GDK stuff, couldn't we? Jul 23 18:55:59 which is beyond the abilities of most of the people we had.... Jul 23 18:56:20 but if mvrc can do what destinal just said, then we'ld be the bees knees. Jul 23 18:56:21 destinal: yeah probably Jul 23 18:56:22 Rick_: yes that's true Jul 23 18:56:28 destinal: I haven't used gdk much Jul 23 18:56:38 ok mvrc, what HAVE you used? Jul 23 18:56:53 Rick_: I could imagine doing stuff like this if nobody has done it until then (after the pre is released in europe) Jul 23 18:57:15 sepisultrum -- why couldn't you do it on the emulator? Jul 23 18:57:26 or was that a stupid question? Jul 23 18:57:27 the thing with me is I have little c++ experience and no native graphics lib experience Jul 23 18:57:34 Rick_: I messed around with pango some a while back Jul 23 18:57:37 Rick_: I don't like doing stuff until I have the real device Jul 23 18:57:41 I'm glad to have done as much as I did Jul 23 18:57:43 :) Jul 23 18:58:00 sepisultrum - gsm pre sometime before xmas Jul 23 18:58:06 Yes, pango what what I was thinking about too Jul 23 18:58:12 the best way to learn is to do, so they say Jul 23 18:58:15 ok, Jul 23 18:58:25 sepisultrum: libpiranha actually seems to be partially based on pango Jul 23 18:58:29 so can you wrap the pixbuff in pango? Jul 23 18:58:31 they deny it but the headers say so Jul 23 18:58:45 converting from one pixbuf format to another can't be too difficult Jul 23 18:58:53 How do i use novaterm in Windows? Jul 23 18:59:14 imop45_ plug the pre into the usb, choose charge only run novaterm. Jul 23 18:59:17 done Jul 23 18:59:26 Rick_: yeah, probably. I used it for some opengl font rendering Jul 23 18:59:26 destinal: link tolibpiranha Jul 23 18:59:26 But wheres novaterm? Jul 23 18:59:28 Rick_: novaterm win32 comes with the sdk? Jul 23 18:59:36 sepisultrum: we lack the needed headers Jul 23 18:59:46 you basically get it to draw characters for you into a bitmap, then you can do whatever you want with the bitmap Jul 23 18:59:50 I cant get it to work, its "not recognized Jul 23 19:00:04 the pre isn't recognized? Jul 23 19:00:12 sepisultrum: we could try to puzzle out our own compatible headers Jul 23 19:00:12 what version of windows? Jul 23 19:00:15 ahh, libpiranha is the palm native rendering lib? Jul 23 19:00:18 re: ipkg file extension Jul 23 19:00:19 sepisultrum: yes Jul 23 19:00:25 is it ipk or ipkg or both? Jul 23 19:00:25 ok, damn Jul 23 19:00:41 imop45_ what version of windows? Jul 23 19:00:41 Vista Jul 23 19:00:44 but why use the native one? Jul 23 19:00:59 vista 32 or vista 64 Jul 23 19:01:08 if no-one else is working on the scrol-back (in term), i'll bln look into it in a few hours Jul 23 19:01:11 bbiab Jul 23 19:01:19 Novaterm is not a recognized command. Palm-install works fine. Win 32 Jul 23 19:01:26 ok Jul 23 19:01:33 imop45_ wait one Jul 23 19:01:42 Rick_: wouldn't it be easier to just go with pango? Jul 23 19:01:55 Zuchmir2: we're not working on that piece at the moment -- whatever you can figure out would be cool Jul 23 19:02:06 Do windows guys still have to do the python, subversion, etc steps? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accessing_Linux_From_Windows Jul 23 19:02:23 mrvc: we need to come up with an interesting name :) Jul 23 19:02:28 ok Jul 23 19:02:33 what, term isn't creative enough? :) Jul 23 19:02:39 the windows guys should just install gnu/linux ;) Jul 23 19:02:39 hehe Jul 23 19:02:40 :P Jul 23 19:03:19 why don't you use separate git repos for separate apps? Jul 23 19:03:21 I have linux on my other partition. Just preferred on my vista Jul 23 19:03:56 imop45_ there's a vista compat novaterm. Jul 23 19:04:03 which I am looking forthe freaking link to. Jul 23 19:04:06 today, i went into a debian jail and apt-get installed ssh and then logged into another system and ran vi on a file, without my pre being attached to a computer Jul 23 19:04:29 it is surreal somehow Jul 23 19:05:39 Hmm, in Palm/SDK/BIN/ theres a few files Jul 23 19:07:32 for novacom Jul 23 19:07:33 Rick_: haha, using bitmap fonts, nice Jul 23 19:08:03 not me sepisultrum mrvc did it Jul 23 19:08:10 me not linux programmer Jul 23 19:08:25 me software designer. Me USE coders... :-) Jul 23 19:10:16 k Jul 23 19:10:25 novacom applicatoin, in NOVACOM folders there's dpinst for the drivers Jul 23 19:10:36 but it's actually the best idea to begin with I guess Jul 23 19:12:59 This is aggrevating! Jul 23 19:13:15 yeo Jul 23 19:13:18 yes it is Jul 23 19:13:20 I had this Jul 23 19:13:25 I'm looking again Jul 23 19:14:42 so, Sepisultrum why is it needed for me to install gnu/linux. ? I'm on Windows. I only used Novacomm.py until I could install DynDNS and dropbear and since then I can access via PuTTY over Wifi with a friendly hostname and also I can move files to/from WinSCP to my Pre... so no more need for Novacomm. Jul 23 19:15:06 also it's SS2 so the session is secure... including the login password Jul 23 19:15:17 Rick_: You had to go through this? Jul 23 19:16:00 no, i did this three weeks ago and did the python thing. Jul 23 19:16:12 and I took SOMEONE ELSES WORD FOR IT that novaterm was installed. Jul 23 19:16:14 stupid me Jul 23 19:16:16 working Jul 23 19:16:31 imop45_ give me 10 minutes and I will have a definative answer.... Jul 23 19:16:37 FreeTim3: I have no idea about novacom. you don't need linux Jul 23 19:17:13 FreeTim3 novacomm is used BY THE PALM-INSTALL.BAT to talk to the pre to install things Jul 23 19:17:25 if you don't want to use it, then fine... Jul 23 19:17:34 but if you do,then you have to have novacomm drivers installed. Jul 23 19:17:41 So do i need to go through these steps like before SDK? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accessing_Linux_From_Windows Jul 23 19:17:54 imop45_ as I said. give me 10 minutes. Jul 23 19:18:02 I mean I ::do:: have access to several Unix boxes, if needed but no need to so far. Jul 23 19:18:05 Ok, i will. Take your time :) Jul 23 19:18:06 I need a pre NOW dammit Jul 23 19:18:09 @Rick ah- OK thanks for that. Jul 23 19:25:29 imop45_ if someone has cross-compiled novaterm onto the windows platform I can not find it. Jul 23 19:25:44 I am sorry, but I think you're still stuck with talk.py for today. Jul 23 19:25:59 Hmm. So run these steps then :http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accessing_Linux_From_Windows Jul 23 19:26:04 But by golly, I'll find someone toget teh sources for /opt/bin/nova and see what it takes... Jul 23 19:26:08 Crud puppies. Jul 23 19:27:21 Hmm, this info should be on the wiki Jul 23 19:27:25 rwhitby, ka6sox, Templarian cphelps, bpadalino, asd puff, Sargun summatusmentis -- I can find no copy of novaterm for windows anywhere. This makes the wiki's accessing linux -wrong- unless one of you know where I can find one, or can cross-compile one. Help! Jul 23 19:29:11 * Templarian doesn't do actual internals stuff, only sdk work. One of the others should know. Jul 23 19:29:53 Maybe we should have a normal people friendly part on the wiki also-aka the "WebOS Installing An IPK"-it's not seasily accessible Jul 23 19:30:00 Templarian might have remembered a conversation. Jul 23 19:32:14 perhaps a big friendly pink button on the front page that says "don't panic" and takes you to the noob page? Jul 23 19:33:55 like before the accessing linux page and all of that have a big pink button that asks what you plan on doing- Noob: Do you want to just install a few Homebrew Apps? Intermediate: Do you want to install A few apps and patches? Advanced: You want to tinker with it all Jul 23 19:34:42 Or a page that says what you can do for noobs or people who dont want to root their pre Jul 23 19:35:13 A true getting started page Jul 23 19:36:52 I wouldn't mind working on that Jul 23 19:37:52 How can I launch an app from the command line? Jul 23 19:38:02 Well, rick send my an email at luciss-@hotmail.com if you get the novaterm going Jul 23 19:38:49 I think it may be a day or so imop45_ Jul 23 19:38:52 check the wiki later Jul 23 19:39:16 and if you want to work on the wiki, be my guest. Jul 23 19:39:24 build your sample pages off a user page Jul 23 19:39:34 and then let us know when they're ready and we can move them. Jul 23 19:39:49 I really LIKE the idea Jul 23 19:39:51 can we use the Sym+4/6/8/2/5 for left/right/up/down/tab keys? Jul 23 19:39:51 ok, i dont have the access to the wiki though. Not invited Jul 23 19:39:58 in the term Jul 23 19:39:59 don't NEED to be invited Jul 23 19:40:07 ok Jul 23 19:40:07 just go register Jul 23 19:40:16 it's mediawiki just like wikipedia Jul 23 19:41:05 So i create an account and then make that page Jul 23 19:41:13 is a port of termlib to mojo useful? Jul 23 19:41:14 create an account Jul 23 19:41:22 it will make a user page for you Jul 23 19:41:53 on your user page make a link called [[imop45_demo]] and then save it and click it, and it will takeyou to a nice new blank page Jul 23 19:41:59 that you can do ANYHTING YOU WANT TO with. Jul 23 19:42:01 :-) Jul 23 19:42:02 have fun Jul 23 19:42:14 Ok, thank you :) Jul 23 19:42:20 also, that will let you edit any non-protected page on the wiki Jul 23 19:42:31 I think the only page we have protected just now is the front page. Jul 23 19:44:50 Yes perfect, ill work on that tonight. I gotto take my cousin swiming so bye bye Jul 23 19:49:51 Rick_: front page isn't protected... should be though. Jul 23 19:56:16 yes it is. Jul 23 19:56:23 until 1 aug 2009 Jul 23 19:56:58 lol... *sees what you did there* Jul 23 20:04:38 Zuchmir2 those keys would be fine. Jul 23 20:05:55 PuffTheMagic See message in other channel Jul 23 20:09:06 Zuchmir2: yeah, we were actually thinking sym + numbers for dpad Jul 23 20:09:22 I don't think it's in yet Jul 23 20:09:25 but intended Jul 23 20:09:40 ok Jul 23 20:09:57 we actually have one more "metakey" if we want Jul 23 20:10:13 I think, at least. and that its to hold a finger on the gesture area Jul 23 20:11:11 hmm, thinking a left-to-wrote swipe for tab perhaps (if we can trap that) Jul 23 20:11:12 so we have shift, orange, sym (control now IIRC), and gesturetap Jul 23 20:11:26 yeah we should be able to get gesture swipes too Jul 23 20:11:39 how's that done Jul 23 20:11:43 sym is control? Jul 23 20:11:47 not rightalt? Jul 23 20:12:03 where do we the swipe Jul 23 20:12:09 tmzt: rightalt? Jul 23 20:12:13 where do we see the swipe Jul 23 20:12:23 tmzt: what's that on a pre? Jul 23 20:12:28 yeah, it maps to AltGr and is usable in keymaps Jul 23 20:12:54 well we need control Jul 23 20:12:55 does Palm have a kernel keymap at all? I know the keyboard is matrix so there must be something Jul 23 20:12:59 ah, true Jul 23 20:13:15 you don't have a mail key or anything like that? Jul 23 20:13:18 tmzt: at this point we get raw event codes, I think from hidd Jul 23 20:13:26 via luna Jul 23 20:13:36 yeah, the input drivers are broken Jul 23 20:13:44 they lock the device when hidd opens it Jul 23 20:14:29 what would you guys like to use for a tab key? Jul 23 20:14:42 or is ctrl-i ok? Jul 23 20:16:39 that would break the %, no? Jul 23 20:16:51 Zuchmir2: control is symbol not orange Jul 23 20:17:00 oh, ok Jul 23 20:18:09 I'm fine with control i, we could consider right gestuer Jul 23 20:18:12 gesture Jul 23 20:18:25 perhaps both Jul 23 20:18:31 typing without tab completion is a bit annoying.. Jul 23 20:18:44 well control-I is the key for tab so it should just work Jul 23 20:18:53 yeah, doesn't for some reason Jul 23 20:19:00 but the right gesture is good for unfamilair users Jul 23 20:19:29 ... and also easier than a key-combo Jul 23 20:21:19 well, it is working, but it is clearing the text Jul 23 20:21:25 I'll have to look into it Jul 23 20:34:24 destinal: huh, does this mean terminal is coming? Jul 23 20:43:23 tmzt: well, terminal is here, if you want to download and compile and copy it over to a pre or emulator. We haven't made an ipk and submitted it to preware yet but I imagine very soon Jul 23 20:44:27 anyone have suggestions for a name? "Term" seems so generic and ambiguous (though kind of cool for its simplicity, there will be more terms) Jul 23 20:45:01 webos-interminals. ;) Jul 23 20:45:03 FirstTerm Jul 23 20:45:16 or perhaps Freshman. Jul 23 20:45:53 drnull: lol Jul 23 20:46:11 destinal: preware? Jul 23 20:46:23 gkatsev: the webos-internals package repository Jul 23 20:46:23 a terminal for the pre as a stand alone mojo app? Jul 23 20:46:39 ah, cool Jul 23 20:46:42 gtslk: like optware but mojo apps, plugins,etfc Jul 23 20:46:50 well Quantsini -- with a plugin Jul 23 20:46:50 i like webos-interminal Jul 23 20:48:10 ooh, what frontend is it using? Jul 23 20:48:27 i've seen termlib get ported to webos Jul 23 20:49:39 destinal: in git now? Jul 23 20:55:03 lunaterm Jul 23 20:55:04 tmzt: yes, its been in git since inception :) Jul 23 20:55:20 ? Jul 23 20:55:22 application repo Jul 23 20:56:34 lunaterm sounds good but let's not change yet, maybe a better one will occur Jul 23 20:56:41 destinal: and it should allow sshing out? Jul 23 20:56:52 gkatsev: yeah, I did that today Jul 23 20:56:58 cool Jul 23 20:57:09 ive been waiting for that, ajaxPHPterm wouldnt let me do that Jul 23 20:57:37 ive got irssi and finch on a server, so, i could just ssh into there to chat and aim when im on the go Jul 23 20:57:50 if the terminal plugin works, how hard will it be to mod it to be an irc plugin? Jul 23 20:58:07 couldnt you just install irssi? Jul 23 20:58:45 on the pre? Jul 23 20:58:47 Huh. duh Jul 23 20:58:56 keep forgetting. Jul 23 20:59:05 lol Jul 23 20:59:23 ok, now that they've got that solved.... how long for an x client. :-) ((((( LOL )))) Jul 23 20:59:24 Rick_ for IRC, I'd use a service Jul 23 20:59:36 destinal suggestions? Jul 23 20:59:37 Rick_: like the messaging app does Jul 23 20:59:44 destinal: yeah, I just misunderstood your comment about the packages Jul 23 20:59:54 any open services, or do I need torun one on my server here at work? Jul 23 21:00:19 Rick_: I assume you mean X server Jul 23 21:02:35 if ((key_code>=32 && key_code<128) || key_code==190 || key_code==8 || key_code==13) { Jul 23 21:02:43 there's some famous binary tricks for that stuff Jul 23 21:02:47 not sure if it's worth it Jul 23 21:03:05 I prefer not to be more tricky than necessary Jul 23 21:08:15 regarding an x server, the next thing I want to work on beyond the terminal is abstracting plugins into adapters, it seems to be palm's model. make the plugin handle talking to the browser but then give it a very simple thin interface to other programs, so you can make minor changes to an existing (maybe directfb) app and link it in Jul 23 21:08:53 destinal: does the term support copy and paste? Jul 23 21:08:55 the idea being to accelerate porting other apps to live in the browser Jul 23 21:09:28 yeah, like kdrive Jul 23 21:09:41 if you know how to do the shared memory graphics Jul 23 21:09:44 adapter I guess Jul 23 21:10:19 yeah, shared memory for the framebuffer, the plugin blits it into the the browser's buffer on drawevent Jul 23 21:10:36 from a seperate process? Jul 23 21:11:07 tmzt: I think that's simplest, it's what PalmClassic does Jul 23 21:11:32 destinal: it looks like the actual terminal is handled in the plugin, is there plans to move that to the mojo application space? (implementing the terminal in javascript) Jul 23 21:11:32 lets the adapted app think it's a standard monolithic type application Jul 23 21:12:26 Quantsini: we've talked about porting anyterm, that should be possible Jul 23 21:13:05 in this case drawing was pretty simple once we'd worked out the NPAPI extensions needed Jul 23 21:13:21 but if you look at the code javascript function calls into the binary work as well Jul 23 21:14:14 you'll always need the vty layer (backend) in native code, but you could do the frontend in javascript -- this is how anyterm works Jul 23 21:15:01 I've ported termlib to mojo, and was wondering if this can be used as a starting step? Jul 23 21:15:33 termlib, huh? I haven't seen it, I'll check it out Jul 23 21:15:49 have you posted your ported code anywhere? Jul 23 21:16:07 nope, but I can upload it to an svn repository Jul 23 21:16:11 hold on a sec. Jul 23 21:20:15 destinal: http://svn.quantsini.com/PalmTerm/ Jul 23 21:20:35 I've hacked together the code fairly quickly, so excuse the crappy code organisation Jul 23 21:28:31 Quantsini: I'll check it out, it sounds like it's an ajax-based back end to a terminal service that provides http access, very much like anyterm Jul 23 21:28:43 and if you've got the mojo, the c side should be straightforward Jul 23 21:29:33 basically just move from xml/http to dbus Jul 23 21:34:07 how is it implemented now? just captures keyboard events directly? Jul 23 21:35:41 Quantsini: the events are trapped by mojo and sent to the plugin Jul 23 21:35:50 is there really any reason to keep the terminal code in javascript? Jul 23 21:36:15 hi, sorry if this is off topic, but anyone know where i can get itunes 8.2 from? Jul 23 21:36:29 nope Jul 23 21:37:18 apple, I guess ;-) Jul 23 21:37:31 http://www.filehippo.com/download_itunes_32/5702/ Jul 23 21:37:35 they're not distributing 8.2 on their website anymore, only 8.2.1 Jul 23 21:37:54 brilliant, thank you very much ogremustcrush! Jul 23 21:38:20 ogremustcrush: please don't post links to redistribution of proprietary programs against the wish of the copyright holder in this channel Jul 23 21:38:38 Hey all, I'm getting palm-install: FAILED_NOT_ENOUGH_INSTALL_SPACE when trying to palm-install my app...I've installed the ipkg-opt...any ideas on how I can fix this? Jul 23 21:39:03 tmzt: keeping it modular, if there is a need for different terminal modes, or if we want the term to look pretty. basically mojo apis are used. Jul 23 21:39:06 palm-install, that was the extremely useful hotsync installer wasn't it? Jul 23 21:39:27 tmzt: it came with palm's sdk, I don't know Jul 23 21:39:35 finder, what app-store apps have you got installed on that pre? Jul 23 21:39:49 Sorry Finder. Jul 23 21:40:40 there was a problem with --- oh gads I forget, but one of the app-store apps was causing the out of memory error. Jul 23 21:40:45 and nothing would install. Jul 23 21:40:51 hmmm Jul 23 21:40:54 Rick_: A few...pandora, sodoku, where, mobile, speed brain, tweed, linkedin, express stocks, flixster, spaz Jul 23 21:41:01 infopedia and new york times Jul 23 21:41:40 I can't remember which it was. :-( Jul 23 21:41:47 wait one Finder I'll go look Jul 23 21:41:50 thanks Jul 23 21:42:50 I tried it after a fresh reboot and got the error too Jul 23 21:43:19 damned if I can remember. Jul 23 21:43:40 I can try just removing stuff, but I was worried it's actually a space issue and not a memory issue? Jul 23 21:44:05 it's unlikly to be a space issue unless you've installed a HUGE number of optware packages. Jul 23 21:44:17 no, just python really Jul 23 21:44:23 but that's large Jul 23 21:44:48 can anyone here help me with quilt? Jul 23 21:45:07 what device is /opt supposed to be? should it be /media/internal? Jul 23 21:45:54 because it's actually /var which is store-var Jul 23 21:45:57 Finder, do a df on the pre Jul 23 21:46:09 48208 available/253920 in 1k blocks Jul 23 21:46:15 81% used Jul 23 21:46:45 in rootfs? Jul 23 21:46:51 81% USED!?!?! Jul 23 21:46:56 84% used in rootfs Jul 23 21:47:02 wow Jul 23 21:47:06 /media/internal has 6 gigs free Jul 23 21:48:20 how about /var ? Jul 23 21:48:28 which is where your apps load into Jul 23 21:48:39 Finder: what about /tmp ?! Jul 23 21:48:56 65 megs Jul 23 21:48:58 free Jul 23 21:49:00 0% use Jul 23 21:49:01 hmm Jul 23 21:49:13 Finder: is that /var or /tmp Jul 23 21:49:18 that was /tmp Jul 23 21:49:26 so then check /var Jul 23 21:49:42 /var is the 81% used Jul 23 21:49:49 /opt is mounted on /var Jul 23 21:50:24 quilt isn't being very nice Jul 23 21:51:22 var starts out at 253920 so, 81 used leaves 50 meg or so. Jul 23 21:51:23 Finder: /media/internal is vfat, so you can't store optware there Jul 23 21:51:30 ok Jul 23 21:51:43 I think the palm service starts complaining at 75% Jul 23 21:51:50 I think so too. Jul 23 21:51:57 I think you're out of var space. Jul 23 21:52:16 how big is python? Jul 23 21:52:35 python should be in usr now I think Jul 23 21:52:40 you could shrink /media/internals and give yourself more room in /var Jul 23 21:53:07 python is in /opt/bin Jul 23 21:53:09 Hi Jul 23 21:53:33 which is mounted in /var Jul 23 21:53:36 right Jul 23 21:53:39 how big is it? Jul 23 21:53:45 vmlemon hi back Jul 23 21:53:56 50.2 megs Jul 23 21:54:06 probably a bit more with the bin Jul 23 21:55:44 so I probably need to remove it for now then relocate it later or resize my partitions Jul 23 21:55:47 can anyone help me with quilt? Jul 23 21:56:09 HebrewzHammer: explain your issue with it first Jul 23 21:57:41 I tried making a ptch but messed up so I wanted to start again. I deleted the patch with "quilt delete 'patch-name'.patch", but qhen I type "quilt files" it says it is still monitoring them Jul 23 21:58:23 *monitoring the files i i'm changing for my patch Jul 23 21:58:52 anyway to tell quilt to stop monitoring those files? Jul 23 21:58:53 Finder, I think you're going to have to. Jul 23 21:59:04 I would re-size, and steal a gig from /media/internal Jul 23 21:59:37 can the doctor or whatever repair that if it screws up the file location table? Jul 23 21:59:56 HebrewzHammer: as long as your patch does not modify the files, it won't matter. Jul 23 21:59:57 I'm not even entirely sure I can since / would have to be unmounted? Jul 23 22:00:16 HebrewzHammer: I think that monitoring them doesn't mean that they've changed? Jul 23 22:00:21 or you deleted them? Jul 23 22:01:01 How can I launch a palm app from the command line? Jul 23 22:01:16 rwhitby: the problem is I accidently made the patch when I had the modified files active. So I need it to stop monitoring those files b/c now when I put the originals back, the patch want to change them back to the modified versions. Jul 23 22:01:47 scsinutz I don't know that you can. Jul 23 22:01:53 I would be a luna-send command. Jul 23 22:02:18 HebrewzHammer: ah, I see. Jul 23 22:02:31 HebrewzHammer: there used to be a command to do that, but they removed it for some reason. Jul 23 22:02:55 :( Jul 23 22:02:58 HebrewzHammer: have a look in /.pc/.... - there might be some state info in there you can just delete Jul 23 22:05:54 I haven't tried to use it yet, but does FileSystemObject work in webOS? Jul 23 22:06:54 trying to write a script that will launch Pandora Jul 23 22:07:29 scsinutz cool Jul 23 22:07:40 but I don't think anyone has done that Jul 23 22:07:40 Kaerey: that's a Microsoft thing or did they add that to dom? Jul 23 22:07:46 I don't recall seeing it in the logs. Jul 23 22:07:51 you might search the logs. Jul 23 22:08:07 which one in particular? Jul 23 22:08:08 nothingin the wiki either Jul 23 22:08:17 scsinutz you might have a research project on your hands. Jul 23 22:08:33 destinal do you recall anyone launching a luna app from shell? Jul 23 22:09:03 rwhitby: I tried it, but it didn't do anything. When I type "quilt files" it shows the files quilt is watching from the current patch on top plus the files from the patch I deleted. wtf quilt? Jul 23 22:09:05 there should be a luna command for that Jul 23 22:09:14 tmzt there should be Jul 23 22:09:19 luna-send something probably Jul 23 22:09:27 but do you recall anyone DOING it Jul 23 22:09:44 no Jul 23 22:10:11 cool... well I now have something to go on.. .I was clueless before. Jul 23 22:10:13 thanks Jul 23 22:14:03 Rick_: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Luna_Send Jul 23 22:14:11 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/launch {\"id\":\"com.palm.app.browser\"} Jul 23 22:14:21 or any other app Jul 23 22:15:06 ipkg-opt remove python did not seem to clear up any space... Jul 23 22:15:48 sepisultrum: we do use separate git repos for separate apps on http://gitorious.org/webos-applications/ Jul 23 22:15:58 destinal thanks Jul 23 22:16:04 scsinutz you see that Jul 23 22:16:22 Finder, you can always rm it Jul 23 22:16:34 Rick_: yeah, going to have to remove each part I guess Jul 23 22:16:39 sorry Jul 23 22:16:48 no problem, I'm not convinced it's still there Jul 23 22:16:48 * Rick_ going home. back on later Jul 23 22:16:50 it won't run... Jul 23 22:16:58 but maybe a reboot will help update the disk stats or something Jul 23 22:17:33 PuffTheMagic: any update from palm on the headers for purple adapter? Jul 23 22:17:33 sync Jul 23 22:17:43 destinal: not yet Jul 23 22:17:51 adding muc/irc? Jul 23 22:18:16 anyone know if orbited will work on the pre? Jul 23 22:18:40 what is that? Jul 23 22:18:40 destinal: term should be called "PreTerm" of course :-) Jul 23 22:18:48 +Rick, +destinal: Thank you... very helpful Jul 23 22:19:07 orbited is a socket client in javascript for web browsers, includes irc and ssh Jul 23 22:19:20 ah, cool Jul 23 22:19:30 Quantsini: what's the licensing on your PalmTerm code? Jul 23 22:19:45 that could be done through a plugin I think Jul 23 22:20:06 is there a trademark policy, I'm sure Palm had one in the past Jul 23 22:20:45 geist: any kind of trademark policy you could point us towards? Jul 23 22:20:52 DeTerm for destinal Term Jul 23 22:21:03 or of course, PreDeTerm Jul 23 22:32:23 is there a reason term is using fixed "screen_height = 40", not adjusted according to (window_height / 80)? Jul 23 22:32:27 FreeTim3: heh, I definitely don't want to name it after myself, there are a lot of contributors, and mrvc has done most of it in terms of actually making my proof of concept plugin code a real terminal Jul 23 22:32:55 I'm definitely part of it, but I don't want to take *that* much credit :P Jul 23 22:33:01 Ah right ok well said. I just liked the way it sounded is all... Jul 23 22:33:18 it does have a nice ring to it though ;) Jul 23 22:33:45 or is that just a place-holder for now Jul 23 22:34:16 Zuchmir2: I think it was a quick hack, nothing more Jul 23 22:34:26 it should definitely be calculated as you say Jul 23 22:35:22 ok, lemme look at that Jul 23 22:36:07 Probably just "Pre and WebOS are trademarks or registered trademarks of Palm, Inc in the US and other countries, obtain written permission before using" or something like that... Jul 23 22:36:18 *Palm Pre Jul 23 22:37:15 Anyone think we'll see a Google Wave client for the Pre, eventually? ;) Jul 23 22:37:35 vmlemon: write one! :) Jul 23 22:37:52 well, if you want one Jul 23 22:37:57 I would, if I wasn't such a bad coder Jul 23 22:38:18 vmlemon: best way to improve is start doing work beyond your abilities Jul 23 22:38:19 Oh well Jul 23 22:38:42 Good point, though Jul 23 22:40:37 if you feel it needs a name (the developers) some variant of determ is a good one Jul 23 22:41:11 rwhitby: I've been wary of naming projects pre* Jul 23 22:41:15 I think it would be best to avoid trademark issues, but it should also be clear that it's a terminal, so a name to far from that might not be the best choice either Jul 23 22:41:27 the pre is just the first handset Jul 23 22:41:49 of course we have preware, but we argued that pre has multiple meanings there if you consider that its a test repo Jul 23 22:42:37 destinal: yeah, you're probably right about the name Jul 23 22:42:40 how bout calling it just Terminal? Jul 23 22:42:44 but calling things web* or webos* is awkward and lame Jul 23 22:43:09 I actually like the generic name, Terminal, Console whatever Jul 23 22:43:09 it fits the unix philosophy Jul 23 22:43:19 I've thought of lTerm (where L is luna) mrvc mentioned lunaterm Jul 23 22:43:36 tmzt: yeah, that's good except when it's one of many Jul 23 22:43:51 LTerm's pretty cool, though the L is kinda awkward, unlike x Jul 23 22:44:22 lunatic (tic = terminal interface client) :) Jul 23 22:44:29 destinal: how many do you need? I mean there is xterm and hundreds of variants, but xterm is still the X11 core application Jul 23 22:44:48 we can just call it "Scary black screen" Jul 23 22:45:30 tmzt: wow, that's a lot of pressure. :) but then again, nothing says the name can't survive rewrites Jul 23 22:45:32 which is what people usually think when they see a terminal window... :) Jul 23 22:46:43 the biggest problem is when someone comes up with another terminal and then tries to compare it to "terminal" .. it's like naming your automobile automobile Jul 23 22:46:45 I say org.webosinternals.term is the app id, so you can just call it "Terminal" Jul 23 22:47:38 rwhitby: you have a point, but the average user will call it whatever the icon says Jul 23 22:47:52 destinal: we can politly suggest they contribute useful improvements to the shared community version Jul 23 22:47:54 destinal: good - we will have the first, and best Terminal Jul 23 22:48:15 * rwhitby bbl Jul 23 22:48:17 rwhitby: again, no pressure or anything :) but it is first, and it is best *now* I'll agree Jul 23 22:48:29 we'll just have to keep it that way Jul 23 22:50:17 mrvc: ok, so maybe the longer name, "Terminal" , and nickname it "scary black screen" :) Jul 23 22:50:42 I think the > icons like gnome use are nice, though green screen is pretty cool Jul 23 22:50:54 tengen toppa gurren terminal Jul 23 22:51:01 hehe Jul 23 22:51:33 destinal: it is, and will continue to the best, since it's open source with a community repo. Jul 23 22:53:21 TermiNet? Jul 23 22:53:31 I'm definitely hoping with the interest the release will raise, people will be scrambling to submit patches :) Jul 23 22:53:43 we'll see Jul 23 22:54:15 I'm sure we can expect an irc client soon, if it's worth it to have one with native code Jul 23 22:54:36 tmzt: I would just make it a service Jul 23 22:54:43 then plug it into messaging for now Jul 23 22:55:32 I guess you could write a new mojo gui for it but the service api should be the same libpurple wrapper than the other stuffu ses probably Jul 23 22:55:54 s/u.ses/uses/ Jul 23 22:56:21 I'm wondering if gestures should be shared with that Jul 23 22:56:35 with and irc client I mean Jul 23 22:56:47 does Terminal support pty processes? Jul 23 22:57:28 I'm probably wrong, but couldn't the IRC module be a straight "port"/recompilation of the one that's already part of "full" libpurple/Pidgin? Jul 23 22:58:59 yes, if muc was added to the messaging app Jul 23 23:02:48 GRRRRRRR Jul 23 23:02:54 stupid cat knocked over and broke my 28" lcd Jul 23 23:02:55 monitor Jul 23 23:08:06 yo dudes Jul 23 23:10:13 i'd be eating that cat tonight...if this was china. Jul 23 23:23:36 raeb, my lcd's are attached to something. Jul 23 23:23:42 Is there a command to wake the phone up? Maybe something to do with powerd? Cron does seem to work when the phone is sleeping Jul 23 23:25:50 binary_tech: yeah they got yelled at Jul 23 23:26:06 rick__: yeah, im just glad both didn't fall Jul 23 23:26:08 but damn dude Jul 23 23:26:08 sux Jul 23 23:27:56 raeb -- next time, a single screw through the lcd base saves $$$ Jul 23 23:28:07 no kidding Jul 23 23:28:09 but then, we have 2 cats and lots of neighborhood children Jul 23 23:28:15 totally worth it Jul 23 23:30:21 Anybody here install 1.1 yet? Jul 23 23:30:44 is it OUT? Jul 23 23:30:51 I am downloading it now. Jul 23 23:30:54 yeah, I was curious of 1.1 is a package of diffs or is it a complete copy of each replaced file Jul 23 23:31:04 Its 87 megs. Jul 23 23:31:38 I may be nuts trying to install it 30 minutes before my commute home. Jul 23 23:31:40 ie, will mods to existing apps (like messaging app) cause it to fail to update Jul 23 23:32:12 I will let you know if I brick my phone ;) Jul 23 23:33:17 is there any format for the wiki for patches? Jul 23 23:33:40 diff Jul 23 23:33:55 well, i should i clarify Jul 23 23:34:01 Lurking_Grue, it's 87 meg Jul 23 23:34:02 i have created a patch Jul 23 23:34:26 do i upload the patch file or should i create a page with the patch information in there? Jul 23 23:34:29 Rick: I am 50% though the download. Jul 23 23:35:28 HattCzech, please creat a page on the wiki Jul 23 23:35:41 explain what/why and then post your patch diff in a code frame. Jul 23 23:35:51 i've created one with the instructions... should i put it there? or create a new one for the patch? Jul 23 23:36:15 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Messaging_Mods#Character_Counter Jul 23 23:36:20 put it on a page linked off here Jul 23 23:36:21 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Patches_to_webOS Jul 23 23:37:05 The Release notes: http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/50607_en.html Jul 23 23:37:50 "Resolves an issue preventing media sync from working with latest version of iTunes (8.2.1)." Jul 23 23:38:23 rick, it's linked off there already... should i add a "patch" section? i'm just thinking that's probably not the best way Jul 23 23:38:35 cuz then i'll have my source up basically twice Jul 23 23:39:33 raeb: my condolences Jul 23 23:39:33 wasn't bad, took about 3 minutes to download Jul 23 23:39:45 nice, i didn't realize 1.1 was out... sweet Jul 23 23:39:59 HattCzech, we haven't established a house style yet for patches. Jul 23 23:40:07 we're talking about a patch repository right now Jul 23 23:40:23 but patches are "tricky" since they're version dependent If palm changes the underlying code.... Jul 23 23:40:23 who's involved in the conversation about the repository? Jul 23 23:40:26 who knows how to get the ipk files from the update, ie where they're kept during update? Jul 23 23:40:34 i'm not a fan of the quilt method, it's too bulky Jul 23 23:40:45 yeah, that's true Jul 23 23:41:14 So, here's my suggestion. make a SEPERATE PAGE for the patch code and link it off the patch page with a big clear === Patch for version 1.04 === link Jul 23 23:41:28 HattCzech: we're not fans of quilt either, but please suggest an alternative that can handle multiple patches and unapply them all automatically before an OTA update? Jul 23 23:41:31 I think the git branches will work well Jul 23 23:41:33 now that 1.1.0 is out, i'll update it so it'll work Jul 23 23:41:33 and then, you can come back and say === Still compatible with 1.1=== or make a new patch Jul 23 23:41:46 okay Jul 23 23:41:51 since they can still sure code between branches and the versions split at the branch Jul 23 23:41:58 * Lurking_Grue crosses fingers and hits install now. Jul 23 23:41:59 new commits go to one or the other Jul 23 23:42:17 i don't know of an alternative that's reasonable... i'm planning to do some shell scripting for my updates Jul 23 23:42:26 tmzt: right - that's why the patches are in an SCM like git, so you can apply normal SCM release procedures to them Jul 23 23:42:39 for now HattCzech that's the best that I have. We hope to have a better answer "soon" in terms of a repository, but for now, use the wiki. Jul 23 23:42:51 okay, cool, thanks Jul 23 23:42:54 HattCzech: quilt is the initial process that sets the standard for the patch repo and format Jul 23 23:43:01 HattCzech: better clients come later Jul 23 23:43:16 i had issues with quilt... well, kinda Jul 23 23:43:27 i wasn't a fan that it installed like 10 other packages so i could use it Jul 23 23:43:43 like git? Jul 23 23:43:43 eh my pre got fubar after the update Jul 23 23:43:45 :( Jul 23 23:44:03 Gah... how so? Jul 23 23:44:04 HattCzech: right - we're still looking for a lighter-weight tool that meets the requirements Jul 23 23:44:08 or maybe not Jul 23 23:44:09 then i couldn't install apps from the app catalog because i had too much memory used Jul 23 23:44:13 it was booting for 4 minutes Jul 23 23:44:15 lol Jul 23 23:44:26 well, i couldn't update tweed, which irritated me Jul 23 23:44:26 Chuq just tweeted 1.1 Jul 23 23:44:37 Mine has the "Do not remove battery" part. Jul 23 23:44:43 by just I mean 9 minutes ago Jul 23 23:44:46 rwhitby: lighter than quilt? I wouldn't suggest topgit then Jul 23 23:45:11 yey nfl app Jul 23 23:45:13 rwhitby: well, WyrM understands it better than me, but I just see it repeating the same operation with a few more changes Jul 23 23:45:32 en0x: oh boy... new app to uninstall. Jul 23 23:45:54 tmzt: topgit? is that like stgit? Jul 23 23:46:08 I think so Jul 23 23:46:11 tmzt: does topgit require you to git add your whole existing filesystem first? Jul 23 23:46:11 it looks like it replaces most of the patches Jul 23 23:46:12 openezx uses it Jul 23 23:46:17 1.1 installing... Jul 23 23:46:27 ex: expect it would is dropbear still running? Jul 23 23:46:29 1.1 is out? Jul 23 23:46:29 I don't think so Jul 23 23:46:30 Do not remove the battery. Jul 23 23:46:37 PreGame: yes Jul 23 23:46:42 tmzt: I trialled stgit - having to git add your whole device rootfs, and the problems you get from doing that after an OTA update, ruled it our for me. Jul 23 23:46:49 ah yes, we named PreTerm after PreGame, not the Pre Jul 23 23:46:59 1.1 is out and I have it downloaded. Jul 23 23:47:03 oh, that kind of thing Jul 23 23:47:03 hehe Jul 23 23:47:03 installing now. Jul 23 23:47:06 87 meg Jul 23 23:47:11 mine is validating Jul 23 23:47:12 no this is more scm than configuration mangement Jul 23 23:47:17 kewl Jul 23 23:47:18 took me about 3 mins to downloda on wifi Jul 23 23:47:23 terminal without an interesting name would be an acronym collision Jul 23 23:47:36 fatalities would be immense Jul 23 23:47:36 the neat thing is you can say 'tg patch' and get a patch against a tree Jul 23 23:47:46 even if the changes are on seperate branches Jul 23 23:47:54 but one branch has to depend on another Jul 23 23:47:57 I am about 80% done... at least accoring to the progress bar under the palm log. Jul 23 23:48:00 err logo. Jul 23 23:48:12 how many patches are there against each file? Jul 23 23:48:16 ...it's making me install 1.0.4 before 1.1 :\ Jul 23 23:48:32 Lurking_Grue, you're going to beat me. I did _not_ uninstall all my patches, so I'll see what survived. Jul 23 23:48:58 Rick: I didn't uninstall anything either... Let you know if mine survives ;) Jul 23 23:49:00 animations are smoother Jul 23 23:49:24 tmzt: there could be many Jul 23 23:50:00 here goes the install Jul 23 23:50:21 * rwhitby will be happy if someone comes up with a better tool or workflow than git - the patch format and repository will remain unchanged Jul 23 23:50:22 rwhitby: and there's no reason for one to depend on another? Jul 23 23:50:36 is phpterm better than webshell? Jul 23 23:50:44 and is there anything better than those? Jul 23 23:50:55 tmzt: where two patches affect the same context lines, they will depend on each other. Jul 23 23:50:59 destinal, has a new terminal that runs on the pre via a plugin Jul 23 23:51:04 rwhitby: I would guess that everybody wants to be able to choose a specific version of modifcations against certain files Jul 23 23:51:05 HattCzech, that's the one you want. Jul 23 23:51:08 it's in git Jul 23 23:51:13 excellent Jul 23 23:51:26 binary terminal using a pixbuff and a plugin real terminal Jul 23 23:51:31 just as they would select different version of an application Jul 23 23:51:33 sweet Jul 23 23:51:35 they're adding functionality to it as we speak... Jul 23 23:51:37 tmzt: everyone needs to be able to choose the specific set of patches they apply Jul 23 23:52:04 tmzt: and as you say, we just use the normal SCM tools like git to do branches for different webOS versions Jul 23 23:52:07 Hey ! new gesture. forward swipe in web goes forward.... Jul 23 23:52:14 I don't think we can trust git to handle multiple independent changes without dependcies Jul 23 23:52:27 that's a needed feature, glad they added that Jul 23 23:52:28 tmzt: that's why I needed to use quilt Jul 23 23:52:46 I don't mean versions of the os, I mean the version (patches) that somebody prefers Jul 23 23:52:58 best comment on precentral. The update icon should be a pony... Jul 23 23:52:58 like if they want certain email features Jul 23 23:53:18 so who's done 1.1? Jul 23 23:53:21 wow Jul 23 23:53:25 palm added useless features Jul 23 23:53:30 lol Jul 23 23:53:38 why not fix the copy/paste and allow text message forwarding? Jul 23 23:53:45 rick, is it that much faster? Jul 23 23:53:45 tmzt: you need to support multiple conflicting patches too Jul 23 23:53:45 I wish. Jul 23 23:53:58 Dood: Mine is at 100% but just kinda sitting there... Its just trying to keep me at the edge of my seat. Jul 23 23:54:00 i am jealous of the 3gs copy/paste support Jul 23 23:54:22 ahh update just showed up Jul 23 23:54:37 your not missing much Jul 23 23:54:41 Haha. Jul 23 23:54:44 the update is more like a downgrade Jul 23 23:54:48 HattCzech, it's at 90% Jul 23 23:54:49 I am at 100% too... waiting for the reboot Jul 23 23:54:53 Does it feel any better? Jul 23 23:54:54 PreGame: how so? Jul 23 23:54:56 lol, downgrade? Jul 23 23:55:09 quilt always works with a patch series? Jul 23 23:55:10 i've only done a few hacks Jul 23 23:55:37 that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying there's this version of email and that version of email, both against a clean Palm version Jul 23 23:55:44 tmzt: yep, and our process gets you to build your own series by importing the patches you choose Jul 23 23:55:48 if palm is so worried about getting back at apple why not create an onscreen keyboard as well as an awesome copy/paste feature like in the iphone 3gs commercial Jul 23 23:55:49 if you want these features you choose this, if you want those you chose that Jul 23 23:55:52 show time in call log, processor throttling, enabled tether, and a cronjob for wallpaper swapping Jul 23 23:56:15 tmzt: I'm saying that too - you just choose which patch to quilt import Jul 23 23:56:39 doodums, how did the processor throttling help? Jul 23 23:56:51 it seems like it added a slight touch of battery life Jul 23 23:56:52 bar done. cylon still scrolling Jul 23 23:56:59 it turns the processor off when making an emergency call Jul 23 23:57:05 If the phone isn't doing anything, the cpu throttles down to 125mhz Jul 23 23:57:23 and up to 550mhz (can do 600, default is 500mhz) when you're doing something intensive Jul 23 23:57:25 that sounds like it would help my battery life issues Jul 23 23:57:26 PreGame: was that serious? Jul 23 23:57:47 I can't see the omap being disabled with display on Jul 23 23:57:57 pregame is unhappy with nfl app and lack of ccopy and past. Pregame will get over it.... Jul 23 23:58:04 HattCzech: it doesn't add much Jul 23 23:58:05 also, the audio is handled through omap soc I think Jul 23 23:58:11 oh, damn Jul 23 23:58:21 cuz i'm still trying to get through some days of moderate use Jul 23 23:58:22 palm is rebooting now Jul 23 23:58:23 damn? Jul 23 23:58:25 NFL app? awesome Jul 23 23:58:35 i get to like 9pm some nights, and it's out Jul 23 23:58:36 that'll go nicely with my nascar app Jul 23 23:58:38 you'd probably be at 30% if you were normally down to 24% or so Jul 23 23:58:39 nfl app - waste of flash Jul 23 23:58:48 nfl app = deleted soon Jul 23 23:58:50 Mine is rebooting and I drive home in 2 minutes... Jul 23 23:58:58 same with nascar Jul 23 23:59:00 palm brings us useless apps but does not allow simple text copy/paste or text message forwarding... Jul 23 23:59:06 i removed nascar from the list of apps Jul 23 23:59:08 more cyclon Jul 23 23:59:27 glowy palm now Jul 23 23:59:31 haha. Jul 23 23:59:32 i'm still at the "do not remove battery" :( Jul 23 23:59:33 PreGame, palm didn't bring us the useless apps, sprint did. Jul 23 23:59:40 It lives and dropbear is still running. Jul 23 23:59:40 should be up in a minute or two, then, raeb Jul 23 23:59:42 YAY SPRINT Jul 23 23:59:46 its being installed by palm Jul 23 23:59:49 hehe Jul 23 23:59:52 and PreGame copy and paste is a non-trivial mod to the mojo base library as you know perfectly well. Jul 23 23:59:57 HattCzech: yep thats the cylon screen heh Jul 24 00:00:06 Bastards put nascar back! Jul 24 00:00:09 Rick__: got a link to how to do it? Jul 24 00:00:10 hah Jul 24 00:00:11 can we move the complaining about what Sprint told Palm to install on the Sprint version of the Pre to #webos? Jul 24 00:00:11 hahhhhaaha Jul 24 00:00:13 i'm tired of having to hack my pre because palm sucks at life Jul 24 00:00:18 c'monnnnnnn luna Jul 24 00:00:20 and I'll bet that they are still arguing about how to implement it in terms of gestures.... Jul 24 00:00:25 yep its 1.1, the glowy palm glows more Jul 24 00:00:25 hehe Jul 24 00:00:37 i can tell its 1.1, my pre feels heavier Jul 24 00:00:39 it's being installed by palm PreGame but palm didn't write it any more than they wrote sprint tv Jul 24 00:00:39 I'm up to the left side of the 'D' in 'Downloading...' Jul 24 00:00:53 i'm at the i in Downloading Jul 24 00:00:57 enable wifi Jul 24 00:00:58 rebooting Jul 24 00:01:00 downloads faster Jul 24 00:01:02 * destinal is contemplating reverse tethering to download over fast wired network Jul 24 00:01:02 yup Jul 24 00:01:05 PreGame: what you have in your hands is a device who's application load is detemined by Sprint. The unlocked GSM version that I buy will not have a NASCAR app on it. Jul 24 00:01:07 i think there are 2 pixels left in the update Jul 24 00:01:13 did, but on a crappy network.. Jul 24 00:01:13 once you download you get to go through the slow process of validating Jul 24 00:01:15 is SprintTV ip only? Jul 24 00:01:18 i wish all updates could be measured in pixels Jul 24 00:01:39 oooooo AIM just otle me i signed on from a dif location Jul 24 00:01:41 lol Jul 24 00:01:43 luna should be here soooon Jul 24 00:01:45 oop theres una Jul 24 00:01:51 i wish these 2 pixels would hurry up Jul 24 00:01:55 "Update Installed" Jul 24 00:01:56 nice Jul 24 00:02:03 anybody have the updates download path handy? Jul 24 00:02:04 HattCzech: those pixels may be dead Jul 24 00:02:04 what do you get, a collection of ipks? Jul 24 00:02:10 pulsing Jul 24 00:02:10 hahahah, i hope not Jul 24 00:02:10 HattCzech: then you're hosed Jul 24 00:02:16 can't you just install the ones you want? Jul 24 00:02:16 I'm watch'n /var/spool/update, but nothing showing up there while d/l's Jul 24 00:02:20 you'd think that US folks would know most of all that the set of applications on carrier-branded phones is completely determined by the carrier, not the phone hardware or operating system OEM Jul 24 00:02:25 mrvc: we should be able to use the gesture area for key up/down/left/right actions in the term shouldnt we Jul 24 00:02:27 lsof Jul 24 00:02:41 uhhhh Jul 24 00:02:44 i could give a rats ass about the nfl app Jul 24 00:02:47 select favorite team Jul 24 00:02:55 PreGame, go for a walk. Jul 24 00:02:56 i want some damn good copy/paste like in the iphone 3gs commercial Jul 24 00:02:57 american or national league Jul 24 00:02:58 hehe Jul 24 00:03:02 PreGame: exactly - blame Sprint, not Palm. Jul 24 00:03:12 i duno n e thing bout football Jul 24 00:03:14 lol Jul 24 00:03:22 PreGame, really. Perhaps petting the dog.... Jul 24 00:03:29 does the nfl app follow college football? Jul 24 00:03:30 have you guys seen the 3gs commercial? Jul 24 00:03:38 (yes, i know they're not the nfl) Jul 24 00:03:40 now, for whats REALLY important: Jul 24 00:03:45 exchange EAS with advanced security Jul 24 00:03:54 YAY! palm screen Jul 24 00:03:58 PreGame, apple commercials are mean. Jul 24 00:04:06 PreGame: ithought the pre had cut-n-paste before the 3GS Jul 24 00:04:07 i wonder how much battery life is saved Jul 24 00:04:11 HattCzech, it's going to be a long boot. 2 minutes before pulsing starts Jul 24 00:04:24 yeah, i hoped they'd improve that with this version Jul 24 00:04:33 not so much, huh? Jul 24 00:04:40 it only has copy/paste for text in a mojo textbox Jul 24 00:04:43 PuffTheMagic: you mean holding the gesture area while sliding your finger up/down/left/right? Jul 24 00:04:43 still pulsing Jul 24 00:04:57 you cant highlight things in an email and copy/paste or on a webpage Jul 24 00:05:07 seriously guys, please take this crap about official Palm features and official applications to #webos. It's off-topic for -internals. Jul 24 00:05:19 mrvc: well i mean make an up/down/left/right gesture in the gesture area Jul 24 00:05:24 wow Jul 24 00:05:25 i dont think i requires pressing the button Jul 24 00:05:28 ok guys just don't talk at all Jul 24 00:05:32 rwhitby will get mad Jul 24 00:05:34 PreGame, it will be interesting to see if the kernel has been updated at all. If they updated to include the bits so that we can use processor speed control WITH voltage control then we can put in the patches to double or triple battery life. Jul 24 00:05:53 that would be awesome Jul 24 00:06:02 i definitely need better battery life Jul 24 00:06:07 PuffTheMagic: seems like up would conflict with minimizing the card Jul 24 00:06:08 fo sho Jul 24 00:06:10 did you hear about the blackberry virus that drained the battery life Jul 24 00:06:14 gl? Jul 24 00:06:20 HattCzech, the hardware is there, but the kernel lacked the appripriate tables. Jul 24 00:06:29 ahhhh, sad Jul 24 00:06:30 Rick__: i doubt they implemented a cpufreq interface Jul 24 00:06:38 3/4 done downloading Jul 24 00:06:38 does arm even use acpi? Jul 24 00:06:42 I doubt it too, but it wuld be cool. Jul 24 00:06:43 PreGame: I would like to know how it did that, if it required running machine code I'm really interested :) Jul 24 00:06:54 woot Jul 24 00:06:56 no it doesn't use acpi Jul 24 00:06:59 email from exchange in my inbox Jul 24 00:07:00 huzzah Jul 24 00:07:01 infact i think all power control is done over i2c Jul 24 00:07:04 or gpio Jul 24 00:07:11 or something non standard like that Jul 24 00:07:11 tmzt the virus? Jul 24 00:07:17 it's done through twl I think Jul 24 00:07:19 PreGame: yes Jul 24 00:07:21 and now my company can remote wipe my device XD Jul 24 00:07:21 they rejected my request for powerd docs Jul 24 00:07:29 so how long does this pulsing last? Jul 24 00:07:38 blackberry didn't create it but the carrier oversees issued the patch Jul 24 00:07:46 i think it was an internal carrier job Jul 24 00:07:50 DONE! Jul 24 00:07:52 changes: Drag menus gone. Ability to add launcher pages - gone -- additional launcher pages -- still there. Jul 24 00:08:07 so the carrier sent out a text saying there was a blackberry update Jul 24 00:08:09 PreGame: patch? Jul 24 00:08:17 yea Jul 24 00:08:42 booo to palm for not mention all my security issues i found in the new release .... Jul 24 00:08:43 fliashlight service - still works Jul 24 00:08:57 AWESOME! EMOTICONS! Jul 24 00:09:04 commander still works Jul 24 00:09:06 are they the same with treo? Jul 24 00:09:09 i feel like i'm back in 1999 Jul 24 00:09:10 hrrmmmmm but my emails have no body Jul 24 00:09:15 so if a treo emoticon is sent to a pre we will see it? Jul 24 00:09:18 woot Jul 24 00:09:33 only if you have ascii support Jul 24 00:09:39 we will now see it Jul 24 00:09:45 did anyone update to 1.1.0 yet Jul 24 00:09:45 if not you get these confusing little pictures Jul 24 00:09:48 what does it brealk? Jul 24 00:09:50 reverse tunneling -- on pre: route delete default; route delete default; route add default gw 192.168.0.1 Jul 24 00:10:01 well, i think... :-) :-( and ;-) are in there Jul 24 00:10:08 ipmasq on workstation Jul 24 00:10:08 mods to clock themes gone Jul 24 00:10:10 see, you have ascii Jul 24 00:10:23 it broke my character counter in the messaging app Jul 24 00:10:32 haha Jul 24 00:10:32 oo exchange is still synching Jul 24 00:10:37 i didnt touch too many apps Jul 24 00:10:41 guess i got too many emails in my inbox Jul 24 00:10:44 HattCzech: when you say broke Jul 24 00:10:48 call duration in call log still there. Jul 24 00:10:48 does it overwrite everything? Jul 24 00:11:15 new sound for text message, or at least it sounded like it Jul 24 00:11:20 hmm Jul 24 00:11:26 its validating Jul 24 00:11:30 * PuffTheMagic awaits the carnage Jul 24 00:11:31 buddy of mine says he has some different sounds now too Jul 24 00:11:31 it could have... yeah, it overwrote Jul 24 00:11:43 I'm at the l in 'downloading...' Jul 24 00:11:43 cuz i don't have the other mod in the app either... with always showing time Jul 24 00:11:46 guys how do i restore my pre to the stage that it was before I bought it? only web doctor? Jul 24 00:12:02 en0x: yeah Jul 24 00:12:25 well so i gotta wait for the webdoctor to be updated to 1.1 Jul 24 00:12:27 mines in the process of installing after a reboot Jul 24 00:12:42 damn it takes a while to validate Jul 24 00:12:55 same sound for e-mail Jul 24 00:13:05 damnit, i was hoping they were different Jul 24 00:13:14 Well shits. Update removed edits to the Sounds and Alerts App Jul 24 00:13:34 "My Notification" still works just fine. Jul 24 00:13:35 HattCzech: i bet someone could amke a nice mojo app for changing the sounds Jul 24 00:13:37 can someone make me an icon for my new app of the Pre taking it in the backside from the 3GS? Jul 24 00:13:44 so it wasnt such a hack Jul 24 00:13:48 but more of an interface Jul 24 00:13:54 palm.com/RESTORE ? thats the address for web doctor? Jul 24 00:14:00 ok list in one... drag menus gone, launcher add pages gone, additional pages premade still there, call duration still there, mynotifications still works, flashlight still works, commander still works, nascar did not come back from the dead Jul 24 00:14:07 yeah, i have my notification Jul 24 00:14:21 Templarian: can i get your opinion on a cleanup of the wiki's sidebar? Rick_ has given it the ok. http://webos-internals.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Sidebar Jul 24 00:14:28 date/time stamp on texts gone Jul 24 00:14:29 random wallpaper switcher doesn't work anymore Jul 24 00:14:31 Rick__: so if it needs to update something it overwrites it sounds like Jul 24 00:14:34 did anyone elses update get stuck in the updating process for the last 2 pixels Jul 24 00:14:35 like a rsync -u Jul 24 00:14:50 PreGame, yes, for about 3 or 4 minutes Jul 24 00:14:59 ok Jul 24 00:15:03 * PuffTheMagic goes to stores Jul 24 00:15:04 bbl Jul 24 00:15:05 pregame, yeah, takes a while at that point Jul 24 00:15:11 I wonder if css generated content would work for some of those patches Jul 24 00:15:29 if there is a well-known id for a span you could use :before or :after Jul 24 00:15:36 Can anyone help me with a patch cannot remove cleaning error? (PuTTY) Trying to remove patches before OTA? Jul 24 00:15:47 in term, if/when alternate fonts get supported, wont CharBuffer be the object responsible for keeping font info? Jul 24 00:15:48 37.1M of 87M downloaded Jul 24 00:15:50 patches? Jul 24 00:15:55 Yes. Jul 24 00:16:02 yeah, i figured cronjobs would stop again Jul 24 00:16:05 what patches Jul 24 00:16:13 like the timestamps or chars remaining thing Jul 24 00:16:21 just update Jul 24 00:16:28 damnit! friggin green phone color! i like my blue! Jul 24 00:16:28 it will take care of that for you Jul 24 00:16:31 Ya, don't worry about removing patches.. Jul 24 00:16:37 I'm trying to remove all of them... but the error only came up on rotate e-mail. (no other patches were mentioned) Jul 24 00:16:37 the downloaded udpates overwrite the files anyway Jul 24 00:16:40 X1011: looks fine. Jul 24 00:16:56 are you talking about hacks? Jul 24 00:17:28 Just patches from wiki... if you all just updated over them I suppose I can too... I'm just not fimilar Jul 24 00:17:31 mrvc: in term, if/when alternate fonts get supported, wont CharBuffer be the object responsible for keeping font info? Jul 24 00:17:49 just click updates andnstall Jul 24 00:17:56 the install will overwrite the files needed Jul 24 00:18:02 does the new version happen to allow the face button to wake up/unlock the device? Jul 24 00:18:11 nope Jul 24 00:18:17 it would probably make sense to use fontconfig or something when the time comes Jul 24 00:18:31 Alright, thx. Jul 24 00:18:33 anyone using the terminal now? Jul 24 00:18:41 i am Jul 24 00:18:49 terminal? Jul 24 00:18:53 hmm exchange eas isn't the fast st thing around Jul 24 00:18:54 Zuchmir2: I would think pixelbuffer would be more correct Jul 24 00:18:59 ultimately, it should be in a "Settings" page, where the user can choose a font Jul 24 00:19:07 destinal: this has full pty and things like ctrl-c working? Jul 24 00:19:16 Zuchmir2: the pixelbuffer is more like a drawing surface that knows about details like fonts Jul 24 00:19:19 tmzt: yes Jul 24 00:19:25 or mrvc Jul 24 00:19:31 tmzt: it does Jul 24 00:19:38 web pages use new fonts Jul 24 00:19:40 do you guys know any menus where the device uses radio selections? Jul 24 00:19:43 prvc: the problem is, if you have to diff size fonts, PixelBuffer gets created each draw Jul 24 00:19:45 cool Jul 24 00:19:56 and multiple cards, even with seperate instances? Jul 24 00:19:59 i'm trying to think but can't come up with any Jul 24 00:20:01 Zuchmir2: although it could be something else -- some intermediate object that knows about moving charbuffer data into the pixelbuffer Jul 24 00:20:09 which means *someone* has to keep track of the font untill then Jul 24 00:20:38 is there any reason CharBuffer shouldnt do that? Jul 24 00:21:14 ... even if it's an object whose parent is CharBuffer Jul 24 00:21:21 I guess CharBuffer is the low level terminal component, so it should certainly get font data for rendering Jul 24 00:21:39 but it's proably not the place to actaully configure it Jul 24 00:21:53 yay! back to blue phone Jul 24 00:21:59 other updates will come later Jul 24 00:22:00 MLJones8: if a palm update overwrites one of the files that were patched, but not another, you're gonna get problems if you don't unapply the patches first. Jul 24 00:22:08 i'm off to dinner, hopefully i'll bbl tonight Jul 24 00:22:10 if you have variable width fonts, there are libraries for that Jul 24 00:22:20 Zuchmir2: it would probably be some kind of rendering context object Jul 24 00:22:36 I think that's called a toolkit Jul 24 00:22:48 tmzt: libfreetype? Jul 24 00:22:51 MLJones8: it may not happen this time, but could happen on the next update. if you're happy to fix the mess if it does happen, go right ahead and just accept the OTA before removing your patches Jul 24 00:22:57 installing update now Jul 24 00:22:58 my validated update is only 48.2 Megs Jul 24 00:23:04 at some point a decision needs to be made to use an existing one or plan a new one Jul 24 00:23:17 destinal: I think that's just for reading ttf files Jul 24 00:23:18 * doodums watches Serenity while phone updates Jul 24 00:23:30 it's more of a low level font library Jul 24 00:23:36 hold on, no Jul 24 00:23:43 maybe we create an object FontBuffer, and all info stored there, and CharBuffer is the parent of that object? Jul 24 00:23:56 but you usually use a wrapper with it I think Jul 24 00:23:58 my phone's update directory has been holding at 41.8meg for a while now... Jul 24 00:24:04 but download status is about 2/3 across Jul 24 00:24:37 what does palm use for fonts, do we have any idea from the webkit patches? Jul 24 00:24:55 tmzt: libfreetype Jul 24 00:25:03 just that? Jul 24 00:25:03 and some ttf fotns Jul 24 00:25:04 fonts Jul 24 00:25:05 okay Jul 24 00:25:15 but you need a few fixed-width fonts for terminal Jul 24 00:25:22 it's almost unusable without them Jul 24 00:25:22 I think they may include one Jul 24 00:25:40 tmzt: you don't like the hard coded ones? :) Jul 24 00:25:48 i'm currently trying to deal with CharBuffer::resize, which is going to have to know what font is being used, so that it can resize accordingly Jul 24 00:25:52 hard coded is fine, long as its monospace Jul 24 00:25:57 it is monospace Jul 24 00:26:07 destinal: I mean terminal is unusable without a fixed width font Jul 24 00:26:11 right, we have one Jul 24 00:26:12 twould be nice to see some antialiasing Jul 24 00:26:14 in general Jul 24 00:26:21 yeah, so I said that wrong Jul 24 00:26:50 which we would have had, had we implemented the gui in mojo Jul 24 00:27:00 (what do u mean we, whiteman) Jul 24 00:27:19 raeb: we can still do a gui in mojo Jul 24 00:27:39 I've made one :) Jul 24 00:27:41 I mean if freetype is used and not a hardcoded font, then variable width fonts need to be provided Jul 24 00:27:48 2/3 done updating Jul 24 00:27:52 if Palm doesn't include usable ones Jul 24 00:27:56 Quantsini: what is the licensing on your source code? Jul 24 00:28:43 rwhitby: go ahead and use it, though it is under the license of http://www.masswerk.at/termlib/ Jul 24 00:28:48 tmzt: variable width, eh ? Jul 24 00:28:58 tmzt: I thought we needed monospace Jul 24 00:29:00 no Jul 24 00:29:03 lol Jul 24 00:29:06 tis what u said Jul 24 00:29:17 okay, I should stop talking then Jul 24 00:29:24 heh Jul 24 00:29:30 tmzt: we're using a hard coded xpm of a font right now Jul 24 00:29:40 but a lib and standard ttf would be nicer Jul 24 00:29:43 more like gpm Jul 24 00:29:52 right, that was the point Jul 24 00:30:08 however it's loaded there needs to be at least one fixed-width terminal font Jul 24 00:30:20 Quantsini: is that URL resolvable for you? Jul 24 00:30:27 that works at the pre's dpi Jul 24 00:30:28 tmzt: ok, and yes, we have that in source code :) Jul 24 00:30:29 of courese Jul 24 00:30:39 gpm: gheto pix map Jul 24 00:30:42 destinal: yeah Jul 24 00:31:05 I have no doubt it will be replaced soon enough once more pressing concerns are addressed Jul 24 00:31:13 pressing Jul 24 00:31:14 like? Jul 24 00:31:17 rwhitby: yes, let me pm you the license it has Jul 24 00:31:19 drawing Jul 24 00:31:34 need proper drawling libs, maybe the 1.1.0 source will have em Jul 24 00:31:34 well, that's why I was asking Jul 24 00:31:35 we're doing it well enough to get by at the moment Jul 24 00:31:37 watchu think bout that Jul 24 00:31:39 but not quite proper Jul 24 00:31:48 Quantsini: got it from google cache - it's restricted to private and academic use only Jul 24 00:31:52 since Palm doesn't use gl or other way of managing hardware glyphs they must be software Jul 24 00:32:08 Quantsini: have you checked out anyterm? Jul 24 00:32:17 it's fully open source and a very similar thing Jul 24 00:32:37 doesn't freetype already have aa and hinting? Jul 24 00:32:45 destinal: check pm Jul 24 00:32:57 Quantsini: so the license on the code you've got there is not compatible with the org.webosinternals.term code license unfortunately Jul 24 00:32:59 so Palm must have some kind of glyph cache in luna I would think Jul 24 00:33:24 Quantsini: what exactly did you develop? is it javascript? Jul 24 00:33:34 destinal: i have looked at an overview, but have not looked at any specifics. it looks to be the same but with a fully working backend Jul 24 00:34:13 tmzt: i just ported termlib to mojo. http://svn.quantsini.com/PalmTerm/ Jul 24 00:34:59 phone still updating. Jul 24 00:35:43 Quantsini: you'll need to replicate those termlib license conditions on your code Jul 24 00:36:07 Quantsini: you said you had aa? Jul 24 00:36:15 will do, i was putzing around with it Jul 24 00:36:17 Quantsini: did you derive from the code, or you just use termlib as an unchanged library? Jul 24 00:36:28 and reboot Jul 24 00:37:13 rhwtby: i modified termlib to work with mojo, otherwise it is unchanged. there was an issue with the constructor and capturing the carrage return key Jul 24 00:37:46 Quantsini: ok, cool. nice work, but unfortunately we won't be able to use that code in org.webosinternals.term due to that license Jul 24 00:37:59 tmzt: since it is made in mojo/js/dom, it implicitly has aa Jul 24 00:38:10 ah Jul 24 00:38:12 okay Jul 24 00:38:22 so we need to see what LunaWebkitPlugin uses Jul 24 00:39:01 rwhitby: understood, i was afraid the license would not work Jul 24 00:39:03 Quantsini: want to help with the freely-licensed term app? Jul 24 00:39:58 Quantsini: if so, destinal is coordinating that ... Jul 24 00:41:25 rwhitby: i would love to :) Jul 24 00:42:46 X1011: just read your sidebar proposal. Jul 24 00:42:49 Quantsini: two options.. if you want to work on the c++ version or the gui for it, termplugin is in our git applications repository. if you want to do a javascript / ajax conversion to mojo javascript / dbus, there may be a good use for that too. I don't think us having two terminal programs done different ways would be bad Jul 24 00:43:07 for a javascript / ajax terminal to mojo / dbus I recommend snagging anyterm Jul 24 00:43:25 dbus is not designed for that though Jul 24 00:43:33 says who Jul 24 00:43:36 things like curses will start to get slow Jul 24 00:43:38 tmzt: no more than xmlhttprequest is Jul 24 00:43:59 I consider that a workaround until native or at least socket was supported Jul 24 00:44:22 well, thats kinda what the plugin term is for Jul 24 00:44:27 yeah Jul 24 00:44:37 so what is gained from supporting ajax? Jul 24 00:44:58 maybe being able to execute command lines for maintainance tasks Jul 24 00:45:09 but it's not a terminal in the linux sense Jul 24 00:45:09 i think writing the gui in mojo has benefit Jul 24 00:45:25 could get pinch zoom without aliased text Jul 24 00:45:34 raeb: well we could also do transport over javascript plugin methods Jul 24 00:45:40 sure Jul 24 00:45:43 plugin for comm Jul 24 00:45:43 we don't *need* to use dbus Jul 24 00:45:44 that's true Jul 24 00:45:46 read/write Jul 24 00:46:09 hmm Jul 24 00:46:10 I agree that logic all in mojo may have some advantages Jul 24 00:46:12 thats something to think about for other apps Jul 24 00:46:21 plugin for comm rather than dbus Jul 24 00:47:06 does twee work for anybody on 1.1? Jul 24 00:47:36 only thing update touched was, yet again, crontab Jul 24 00:48:00 time on call list still shows, cpu freq scaling works Jul 24 00:48:34 doodums: which method are you using for cpu freq scaling? Jul 24 00:48:37 anyone seen a skin/theme for phone ? Jul 24 00:48:57 is webos skinned through css? Jul 24 00:49:16 tmzt: i would assume so Jul 24 00:49:37 gkatsev: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/CPU_Frequency_or_Voltage_Scaling Jul 24 00:49:42 rwhitby: good? i need an admin to implement it. Jul 24 00:50:53 doodums: smartreflex or the event.d script? Jul 24 00:51:13 event.d Jul 24 00:51:44 ok, neither worked for me actually. ill try again, want to reset my phone Jul 24 00:55:45 does anyone still have a "notifications" option for email any more? Jul 24 00:56:05 exchange EAS FTW Jul 24 00:56:35 yea but i had notifcations on my gmail that do not seem to exist Jul 24 01:09:36 ok, i'm working on abstracting "font", which is modifying CharBuffer as well as PixelBuffer Jul 24 01:10:29 Has anyone upgraded to 1.1.0 yet? Any known gotchas? Jul 24 01:10:39 i have, and none thus far Jul 24 01:10:47 halula: no probs Jul 24 01:11:24 Did you back out all the patches or simply apply it on top ? Jul 24 01:13:38 when did 1.1.0 come out? Jul 24 01:13:47 Today Jul 24 01:13:59 im resetting phone now, would it automatically put 1.1.0 on there? Jul 24 01:14:07 halula: ah, cool Jul 24 01:14:19 no you have to run upgrade mgr Jul 24 01:14:24 ok Jul 24 01:14:32 update mgr Jul 24 01:14:38 wouldve been cool if webOSdr can do that Jul 24 01:15:56 raeb & czarphanguye: did you back out patches or update over the top of them? Jul 24 01:16:44 drive home bbl Jul 24 01:16:50 stay safe Jul 24 01:16:54 I hate driving Jul 24 01:16:54 heh Jul 24 01:17:06 halula: tbh I used webos dr and formatted, then rooted, then updated. idk about the patches Jul 24 01:17:06 im learning right now Jul 24 01:17:07 easy on the road Jul 24 01:17:16 need to get my license Jul 24 01:17:17 jwm: I like teleporting better but ever since the reality patch I can't get it to work Jul 24 01:17:26 heh Jul 24 01:17:27 whats the scoop on the itunes fix? Jul 24 01:18:37 is there an itunes fix? Jul 24 01:18:44 oh yeah!! Jul 24 01:18:46 Wail: id just use doubletwist Jul 24 01:20:00 yeah, don't use itunes Jul 24 01:20:02 that fixes it Jul 24 01:20:39 ooh, i forgot it palm profile restores apps. nice Jul 24 01:20:52 * rwhitby plugs http://www.precentral.net/palmcast-episode-68 and http://media.libsyn.com/media/treocentral/palmcast68-5.mp3 (you get to hear the mellifluous tones of some guy talking about webos-internals ...) Jul 24 01:21:48 it works, my question is what did palm "fix" Jul 24 01:22:01 does anyone still have a "notifications" option for email any more? Jul 24 01:22:36 rofl Jul 24 01:22:37 http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/solutions/article/50607_en.html#11 Jul 24 01:22:40 rofl @ rwhitby Jul 24 01:22:47 entire interview in uncut form Jul 24 01:22:50 extra nerdery lmao Jul 24 01:23:13 this is awesome Jul 24 01:25:14 notifications for sms, aim, and chat still work though o.0 Jul 24 01:26:11 * AgentSmith listens Jul 24 01:26:39 * Templarian listens to podcast. Jul 24 01:26:45 * AgentSmith listens to Templarian Jul 24 01:26:59 * Quantsini is doing the crazy, compiling anyterm on his pre Jul 24 01:27:39 rwhitby: do u play with all these various linux devices? nokia tablet, slugs, etc ? Jul 24 01:27:53 raeb: i run the slug project. Jul 24 01:29:24 raeb: I'm part of the openwrt core team, and have ported that to a number of ixp4xx-based devices Jul 24 01:29:34 haven't done a whole lot on the n800, but I do own one. Jul 24 01:29:47 worked on the openmoko project, doing the MokoMakefile build system for that Jul 24 01:30:27 oh wow, 1.1 breaks google maps from universal search ? Jul 24 01:31:01 "sneaky, bittorrenty ways" Jul 24 01:32:10 noooooo ur a root hayter on the podcast! Jul 24 01:33:05 raeb: couldn't resist getting that one in ;-) Jul 24 01:33:55 good stuff Jul 24 01:36:08 Were are going to get a nice irc channel? Jul 24 01:36:12 "bang! you've got a root prompt on the pre!" Jul 24 01:36:13 (hehe) Jul 24 01:37:34 So Jul 24 01:37:42 am I seeing what I think I see Jul 24 01:37:52 1.1 fixes iTunes sync and basically says Zark off apple? Jul 24 01:38:24 i would think that foreground and background should be members initialized in PixelBuffer::PixelBuffer, no? Jul 24 01:38:36 "super duper developer" Jul 24 01:38:37 classic Jul 24 01:39:10 raeb: you wait until the very last sentences of the interview, you'll cringe ... Jul 24 01:39:30 i dont have a pre myself Jul 24 01:40:32 rwhitby, do you have your email account attached to ur pre emulator and use it to send and receieeve emails? Jul 24 01:40:36 cuz Jul 24 01:40:39 i did before i got my pre Jul 24 01:40:47 raeb: I tested it, but don't use it regularly Jul 24 01:42:05 hey everyone, I was hoping you could help me real quick. I am trying to run the optware-bootstrap script on my pre. however I get the following error. "optware-bootstrap.sh: line 1: syntax error: redirection unexpected" Jul 24 01:43:28 I hope it doesn't have anything to do with the new WebOS 1.1 update Jul 24 01:43:38 krische: are you sure you downloaded the script, and not the web page that displays the script? the url must have 'raw' in it. Jul 24 01:44:29 raeb: I also got definition of "bricking" and "webOS is not open source" in there too. Jul 24 01:44:50 how can I remove a homebrew app if using the "orange key + tap" doesn't give a "delete" option? Jul 24 01:44:53 yeah i herd the bricking of the iphone bit, that was nice Jul 24 01:44:54 rwhitby I ran the command on the wiki page: wget http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/raw/master/optware-bootstrap.sh Jul 24 01:45:17 layman translation: "you can smash your iphone with a brick! but it wont hurt a pre!!" Jul 24 01:45:31 so that went into my /tmp directory and then I tried to execute the script. Jul 24 01:46:17 YEAH! new browser plugins! Jul 24 01:46:21 krische: is the first line of the script "#!/bin/sh" ? Jul 24 01:46:26 "Bunch of guys"... "and gals"... really? Jul 24 01:46:37 yeah. That's what it shows when I go to read the script Jul 24 01:46:43 Templarian: there are gals in this channel, yes. Jul 24 01:46:53 Nice. Jul 24 01:46:54 is it just me or is someone at palm stoned? Jul 24 01:47:14 * After you enter search text, you can tap the Search Search icon icon to perform a search. You still have the option of pressing Enter Enter key to perform the search. Jul 24 01:47:21 rwhitby: you should of plugged Komodo when he mentioend using terminal. lol. Jul 24 01:47:34 search search search Jul 24 01:47:35 * A new gesture is now available that works the same as the onscreen Forward Web Forward button button. To move forward through open web pages, make a short swipe left to right in the gesture area. Jul 24 01:47:58 * If you have a page open at a certain zoom level, leave the page, and use the onscreen Back Web Back button button or the back gesture to return to the page, the zoom level is restored right away. Jul 24 01:48:31 "you really really have to work hard to brick a pre" Jul 24 01:48:42 :) Jul 24 01:49:06 I personally think Palm is giving us fatality key sequences in the latest mortal kombat Jul 24 01:49:18 "if you want to kill someone with this move, he forward forward button button" Jul 24 01:49:31 "do back web back button button to remove their head" Jul 24 01:49:36 its true Jul 24 01:49:41 thats the konami code or something Jul 24 01:49:46 krische: is there a chance it has crlf as opposed to simply lf? Jul 24 01:49:50 * psykoz grins Jul 24 01:49:52 (i thought the konami code was different, but whatever) Jul 24 01:50:01 lol psykoz or the documentation was outsourced to India Jul 24 01:50:07 AgentSmith ;) Jul 24 01:50:33 when i first heard it im like Jul 24 01:50:34 uh Jul 24 01:50:36 i dont have an up arrow Jul 24 01:50:43 hahaha Jul 24 01:50:55 Oh nevermind Jul 24 01:50:59 Gizmodo fails Jul 24 01:51:11 bill gates guest wrote for gizmodo this afternoon Jul 24 01:51:19 ha! Jul 24 01:51:25 they copy/pasted from Palm's site so really it's "Search 'Search Icon [tooltip for image]' icon" Jul 24 01:52:02 and the "Forward 'Forward Button[image w/ tooltip]' button" Jul 24 01:52:11 Okay so they're not stoned, darn ;( Jul 24 01:52:14 i want my email notificaitons back :( Jul 24 01:52:25 tharris-, they broked your email notifications? Jul 24 01:52:30 changed them Jul 24 01:52:39 that's the frown of releasing essentially a beta to the public Jul 24 01:52:45 stuff will change change change constantly for a while Jul 24 01:53:05 What did they change? Jul 24 01:53:17 how they work, or just how the code is which breaks the homebrew email notification hacks? Jul 24 01:53:27 they seemed ot have removed them to fix a security issue i had found in them instead of fixing the issue.... Jul 24 01:53:43 but you wouldnt know that cause they didnt give me the credit =p Jul 24 01:53:52 lol tharris- Jul 24 01:53:54 wierd touchy subject..... Jul 24 01:53:56 So they outright removed email notifications? Jul 24 01:53:58 no Jul 24 01:54:00 they changed them Jul 24 01:54:03 it used to be, you'd get an email Jul 24 01:54:05 bottom of screen would go Jul 24 01:54:10 "6 new messages on account satan@hell.com" Jul 24 01:54:16 then swoop down to a mail icon Jul 24 01:54:19 now it just dings and shows the mail icon Jul 24 01:54:27 no 10-second alert showing how many and what account etc. Jul 24 01:54:52 Ahh Jul 24 01:55:00 I actually didn't like the "6 emails in blah@blah account" Jul 24 01:55:04 I prefered just a ding and the email icon Jul 24 01:55:21 yeah it's a difference is all, i can probably adapt to the envelope only Jul 24 01:55:29 it's still more informative than the darn iphone Jul 24 01:55:30 why did they consider that a big security issue? Jul 24 01:55:37 because it showed the account name? Jul 24 01:55:38 "my phone vibrated, i wonder why? could it be email? app alert?" Jul 24 01:55:40 no Jul 24 01:55:49 cause you could do dirty things with it =p Jul 24 01:55:55 oh I figured out my problem. I think the downloaded script must have got corrupted or something. I redownloaded it and now it's working. Jul 24 01:55:58 tharris-, like? Jul 24 01:56:11 execute arbitrary html code on anyone phone =p Jul 24 01:56:22 Gotcha Jul 24 01:58:09 So i'm confused about the iTunes war Jul 24 01:58:21 at this point is Palm saying "screw you apple, we know your devices just as well as you do" Jul 24 01:58:55 or does Palm secretly pay apple royalties and the apple fix was just a big media stunt to relenquish them from litigation against bluwiki but then said in the backgroudn to Palm "here's the fix" for gayTunes Jul 24 01:59:04 psykoz: Palm knows they can win the battle. iTunes updates are annoying to their users. Jul 24 01:59:29 should I pop all my patches beofre doing the OTA upgrade? Jul 24 02:00:52 ******************** TA DAH ********************** Jul 24 02:00:58 ??? Jul 24 02:01:06 the conversion of pages from the old to the new wiki is done. Jul 24 02:01:12 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jul 24 02:01:13 CONGRATS! Jul 24 02:01:15 and THANX! Jul 24 02:01:19 none left. Jul 24 02:01:26 Now only sorting and renaming and un-rooting Jul 24 02:01:43 Rick_: Should I pop all my patches before doing the OTA upgrade? Jul 24 02:01:46 What's the webos-internals equivalent of a barn-star Jul 24 02:01:56 'cause hopspitfire gets one. Jul 24 02:02:01 whatever the hell it is. Jul 24 02:05:47 ROFLMAO we're the real heroes guys and gals Jul 24 02:05:56 heeeeerrroooooeeeesssssss Jul 24 02:06:00 right rwhitby ? Jul 24 02:06:00 raeb: I warned you :-) Jul 24 02:06:32 very nice Jul 24 02:06:36 Hmmm the bookmarking in the media player stopped working. Jul 24 02:07:52 anyone? should I pop all my patches before doing the OTA upgrade? Jul 24 02:08:07 HebrewzHammer: yes, you should. Jul 24 02:08:09 Lurking_Grue: have you only lost old bookmarks or new ones not working either? Jul 24 02:08:22 thank you Jul 24 02:08:30 HebrewzHammer: then you will know which ones don't apply cleanly after the new update Jul 24 02:08:43 does anyone here know how to remove a homebrew app that does not give you the option to delete it on the Pre? Jul 24 02:09:01 WillJitsu: you need to go into the Pre command line and ipkg uninstall it Jul 24 02:09:43 dr: looks like the media player was reverted so the bookmarks are gone and it isn't making them. Jul 24 02:09:49 rwhitby: where can I pull up a list of the exact names of the apps so I can use the correct command? Jul 24 02:10:05 WillJitsu: ipkg list Jul 24 02:10:17 ipkg remove com.handson.app.nfl Jul 24 02:10:20 WillJitsu: or ipkg -o /var list (but if it's in there then you should be able to remove it) Jul 24 02:10:27 Lurking_Grue: I'll try to rollback the patches, upgrade tomorrow and reapply and see what needs fixing. Jul 24 02:10:27 wrong window ;) Jul 24 02:10:39 WillJitsu: or ipkg-opt list if you've gone and used ipkg-opt to install a normal webos app for some reason Jul 24 02:10:56 hey yall Jul 24 02:11:10 Dr: I didn't roll back the patches before... they may have updated the app. Jul 24 02:11:39 does anyone know how long my phone will go before it forces me to update Jul 24 02:11:52 Music player has jul 17 dates on it. Jul 24 02:13:38 joe - probably a week Jul 24 02:14:06 i've implemented an "FontInfo" to term, would like a 2nd pair of eyes to look it over before commit Jul 24 02:14:30 thanks rick Jul 24 02:14:37 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/User_talk:Hopspitfire Jul 24 02:14:51 Matt did MASSIVE work on the conversion effort. as in over 100 pages. Jul 24 02:15:02 Please stop by his user page and thank him if yu have a moment. Jul 24 02:15:16 has anyone been able to re-aply the fwd of email and text msg mod Jul 24 02:15:32 rwhitby: I tried "sudo ipkg remove com.ctladvance.prebrewfarts" and it returns: "No packages removed. Nothing to be done" Jul 24 02:17:55 WillJitsu: find the app files and just delete them, then reboot Jul 24 02:19:00 rwhitby: do you know where most app files are installed? or at least a hint where to start looking? Jul 24 02:19:56 WillJitsu: /var/usr/palm/applications, or /usr/palm/applications Jul 24 02:20:09 if in the former, you should be able to delete them Jul 24 02:20:48 rwhitby: so I can just do a "rm -rf directory" and then reboot and that should cleanly remove all traces of the app? Jul 24 02:20:58 WillJitsu: yes Jul 24 02:22:37 rwhitby: hmm looks like prebrewfarts is in the /usr/palm/applications dir. anyway to delete from there? Jul 24 02:23:01 WillJitsu: same deal, just make the rootfs rw first Jul 24 02:23:07 gotcha Jul 24 02:23:07 thanks Jul 24 02:23:21 i need some assistance getting the pre connected to vista 64 Jul 24 02:23:44 everything is up and running but palm-install -d usb -l gives me no devices found Jul 24 02:24:59 novacom is running (amd64 version), pre is detected with 'palm novacom' Jul 24 02:25:59 pre is in the dev mode... Jul 24 02:26:33 podcast, hehe "palm is perfect" Jul 24 02:28:25 rwhitby: good interview Jul 24 02:29:46 destinal: thx Jul 24 02:31:47 I love this device -- just a simple thing like someone being able to IM me a link and that clicking it and listening in the background works, you'd think that would be common on smartphones, but not really Jul 24 02:32:27 see: iphone's background application restrictions, etc Jul 24 02:34:09 am i the only one having issues with novacom & vista 64? Jul 24 02:34:25 hey yall, I just plugged my pre into my windows xp laptop and I cant find the connection under "network connections" any ideas? Jul 24 02:34:54 they re-enabled itunes? Jul 24 02:35:00 interesting Jul 24 02:35:24 palm literally bitch smacked apple with that one Jul 24 02:35:29 LOVED IT Jul 24 02:35:42 anyone know yet what they did? Jul 24 02:36:05 ie was it changing root usb vendor name, or.. Jul 24 02:36:19 joesmith: i don't think that's what 'literally' means Jul 24 02:37:31 1. In a literal manner; word for word: translated the Greek passage literally. Jul 24 02:37:41 In a literal or strict sense: Don't take my remarks literally. Jul 24 02:37:59 destinal, it's funny whatever they did, they forgot to say "yeah apple, take that you bitches" :) Jul 24 02:38:00 joesmith: literally as opposed to figuratively. they figuratively smacked apple with that one Jul 24 02:38:05 You mean figuratively i think. Jul 24 02:38:09 I guess I am wrong :) Jul 24 02:38:34 palm has no palms and cannot smack, but a large palm smacking a large apple is an amusing image Jul 24 02:38:55 xD Jul 24 02:38:56 what is the term for adding text to scripts that a user can read but the computer ignores them? Jul 24 02:39:06 love this article: http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10013277o-2000334309b,00.htm titled - "Palm now open themselves up to be sued by Apple" Jul 24 02:39:17 james_: comment Jul 24 02:39:22 thank you Jul 24 02:39:55 Such a apple fanboy the writer is Jul 24 02:40:13 yep Jul 24 02:40:39 Palm has basically by doing this put themselves on Google News' front page, they're going to in this battle with Apple get more press attention than they could have ever paid for ;) Jul 24 02:40:42 he sounds like a whiney little B1Tch Jul 24 02:40:44 if i wanted to edit the .js file to add/remove launcher pages, could i make the commands that i am supposed to delete into a "comment" so that if i go back i know exactly what i editted, and the script would still work? Jul 24 02:41:33 any ideas why my pre wont show up under network connections? Jul 24 02:42:39 psykoz: I think that apple is more opening themselves to lawsuit than palm is Jul 24 02:42:44 if they block again Jul 24 02:42:56 Looks like the amazon down loader was updated as well. Jul 24 02:43:12 destinal, nah DMCA holds its weight in the US Jul 24 02:43:20 see HP and generic toner cartridges for precedent Jul 24 02:43:40 psykoz: DMCA has an exception for interoperability actually, doesn't it? Jul 24 02:43:44 joesmith: did you install USBnet? Jul 24 02:43:58 but it will however bring light of the issue publicly of apple's obsession with monopolising the music and player industry ;) Jul 24 02:43:58 yeah it was working an hour agoa Jul 24 02:44:40 I just checked and somehow usbnet was disabled on my pre, wierd Jul 24 02:44:50 now it shows up Jul 24 02:45:40 did apple block the pre's ipod spoof? Jul 24 02:45:57 they did in 8.2.1, but Palm's latest update fixes it again and says f'you apple Jul 24 02:46:09 I thought the DMCA was only a problem when encryption was involved. Jul 24 02:46:34 lurking_grue, which is why cracking the iPodHash has been a problem, because it's attempting to crack encryption Jul 24 02:47:42 did apple block the pre's ipod spoof? Jul 24 02:47:50 woohoo Rod ftw! Jul 24 02:48:03 all I know is I am a fan of anyone who dares to poke the apple dragon Jul 24 02:48:10 21:45 < james_> did apple block the pre's ipod spoof? Jul 24 02:48:10 21:45 < psykoz> they did in 8.2.1, but Palm's latest update fixes it again and says f'you apple Jul 24 02:48:12 amen Jul 24 02:48:20 it doesn't seem like they could win a lawsuit to me Jul 24 02:49:19 psykoz, sorry, hit a button in my terminal and couldn't read the channel Jul 24 02:49:29 james_, np Jul 24 02:49:38 WOOT! Borked my phone with 1.1.0!!!!!! Jul 24 02:49:47 Yaaaaaaay! Jul 24 02:49:48 destinal: i've implemented an "FontInfo" to term, would like a 2nd pair of eyes to look it over before commit Jul 24 02:49:50 def bricked... Jul 24 02:49:55 'grats Jul 24 02:50:04 it's work-in-progress Jul 24 02:50:05 Zuchmir2: can you pastebin a patch and post URL? Jul 24 02:50:07 on my second go around with the doctor... failed the first time Jul 24 02:50:09 Ouch Jul 24 02:50:11 DP Jul 24 02:50:14 mrvc: you around? Jul 24 02:50:27 yep Jul 24 02:50:30 Mine is halfway through installing Jul 24 02:50:39 just pushed some changes Jul 24 02:50:43 Zuchmir2's hacking on the term lib too Jul 24 02:50:45 I am the first to have borked theirs... according to this rep Jul 24 02:51:07 he said engineers said it was Rare but not impossible. I am like a rare pokemon card... Jul 24 02:51:13 very valuable Jul 24 02:51:16 haha Jul 24 02:51:20 Hi Zuchmir2 Jul 24 02:51:49 hi, am abstractinf the fontinfo... Jul 24 02:51:50 Rod said you would have to light it on fire to have bricked it... well, I say nay nay... Jul 24 02:51:52 Zuchmir2: does that sound good? ie just make a diff against git HEAD and pastebin it? Jul 24 02:52:07 then I and maybe mrvc can check it out Jul 24 02:52:08 yeah, doing it now Jul 24 02:52:13 DarthPooh: no, you're like a shiny pokemon, rare but not valuable Jul 24 02:52:20 i want to test handling of side scrolling Jul 24 02:52:25 anyone know how to enable that? Jul 24 02:52:26 but dont worry eguy... I am like the only one whose done it with 1.1.0 Jul 24 02:52:38 Oh ok Jul 24 02:52:45 mrvc: Zuchmir2 had vertical scrolling going by changing the height Jul 24 02:52:45 you had me going there ;) Jul 24 02:52:48 destinal, the court's ruling on Lexmark Toner cartridges just says that a manufacturer can't use lockout chips to disable interoperability from competitive aftermarket replacement parts Jul 24 02:52:51 I imagine you could change the width Jul 24 02:52:56 ~80% :) Jul 24 02:53:17 destinal, I don't know how this would apply to software and hardware interoperability ie: itunes and ipod, as neither have aftermarket replacement parts Jul 24 02:53:18 I hate having to restore my mods after updates :( Jul 24 02:53:20 I tried making it wider than 320, but no luck Jul 24 02:53:23 nah, don't be worried, only someone with my skillz could bork a Pre with an update. Jul 24 02:53:30 seems like side scrolling is a special feature that has to be enabled Jul 24 02:53:42 http://pastebin.com/d3fd3d199 Jul 24 02:53:43 mrvc: obviously it _can_ work as the web browser is a plugin too Jul 24 02:53:48 yep Jul 24 02:54:00 vertical scrolling seems to be enabled by default, but not horizontal Jul 24 02:54:05 I can look it up Jul 24 02:54:20 destinal, so this would only apply to like if apple said "you can't use a generic charger, we're putting licensed chips in all of our chargers, you have to buy our chargers, not theirs" Jul 24 02:54:46 hmm Jul 24 02:54:52 kvm and virtualbox don't like each other Jul 24 02:54:53 heh Jul 24 02:54:57 Zuchmir2 mrvc: with diff highlighting http://pastebin.com/m628e80ad Jul 24 02:55:35 mrvc: these mods are a prelude to scrolling... Jul 24 02:55:46 Any way to get landscape rotation in the AP news app? same deal as the email app? Jul 24 02:57:26 DarthPooh: volume-up restore didn't fix it? Jul 24 02:57:29 esp look over the alloc/free stuuf (as i'm pretty new to C++) Jul 24 02:58:14 Oh my Rod, I envisioned your voice a lot different haha! I forgot you were an Aussie Jul 24 02:58:44 :( None of my patches work with the new OTS update :( :( :( Jul 24 02:58:53 currently reset the screen to use 56 lines (that's calculated) Jul 24 02:59:26 also didn't understand the mutext stuff, so that has to be fixed Jul 24 02:59:44 Eguy: I had a cold too, so it sounds slightly muffled **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jul 24 02:59:57 2009