**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jul 25 02:59:57 2009 Jul 25 03:00:48 does anyone have any solutions to flashing a pre when the webos doctor doesnt recognize when you plug it in? i have set it up in bootloader mode and still nothing Jul 25 03:01:17 jwm: not on the Pre kernel there isn't Jul 25 03:01:33 PreHero: you've done steps 1 to 6 precisely? Jul 25 03:02:15 yes. i have flashed the pre before, so as best i can tell, i am following everything to a t Jul 25 03:02:47 preIRC :) Jul 25 03:03:36 Do any of you guys know if WebOS Doctor is comptible with vista x64? Jul 25 03:03:38 the next button never comes up to proceed Jul 25 03:04:15 is your pre in usb mode? Jul 25 03:04:25 jwm: kexec Jul 25 03:04:30 PreHero: to be clear, are you following steps 1 to 6 on www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover ? Jul 25 03:04:39 but it kills everything until proper freezing is implemented Jul 25 03:04:43 yes, i have it open and following it Jul 25 03:05:00 james: i have it set to bootloader mode Jul 25 03:05:10 I am wondering if everyone is trying to re-image there pre back to default due to using the recommended method of using novacom. Jul 25 03:05:31 thatdude: why? Jul 25 03:05:41 rwhitby: yeah, I *wish* the pre booted as fast as the emulator Jul 25 03:06:24 rwhitby: pkill LunaSysMgr should do it too, but takes almost as long as a reboot and reboots are easier for most Jul 25 03:06:37 1.1 update is killing my battery, it drains it from full to 13% in an hour Jul 25 03:06:53 Xerran: is that even possible? Jul 25 03:06:56 : The old way before the SDK is not supported. So I guess users want that webos-internal recommends Jul 25 03:06:59 yes Jul 25 03:07:08 It is on the pre central forums also Jul 25 03:07:15 it's because of java Jul 25 03:07:19 java is sooo slow Jul 25 03:07:28 thatdude: oh, I see - people are reflashing to make sure they're in sync with the latest procedures Jul 25 03:07:48 Xerran: bugs are annoying like that. Jul 25 03:07:52 : Yep, which I did yesterday. Jul 25 03:07:54 great Jul 25 03:07:55 ya Jul 25 03:07:59 I shouldn't of put 1.1 on there Jul 25 03:08:03 thatdude: good plan :-) Jul 25 03:08:10 I may have to go tot he sprint store Jul 25 03:08:18 : :D Jul 25 03:08:19 *the Jul 25 03:08:25 PreHero, when my pc was not recognizing my pre i held the up volume button and pressed the power button Jul 25 03:08:29 it then displayed a graphic Jul 25 03:08:40 after that the device was recognized by the computer and the recovery began Jul 25 03:08:58 : Btw, where you the one at the precentral potcast? Jul 25 03:09:20 pot? where? :P Jul 25 03:09:33 hehe Jul 25 03:09:35 potcast Jul 25 03:09:56 : I like saying potcast, I just think it's funny. Jul 25 03:10:12 lol Jul 25 03:10:15 james, i did that and it seems to refresh the bootloader on the phone, but the next button still doesnt change. Jul 25 03:10:56 Anyone know if people are getting new phones or refurbs from sprint? Jul 25 03:11:08 well Jul 25 03:11:12 the one I got was new Jul 25 03:11:12 thatdude: yep, http://media.libsyn.com/media/treocentral/palmcast68-5.mp3 is my dulcet tones. Jul 25 03:11:19 but it's been long enough to be refurbs now Jul 25 03:11:28 jwm, thats yoru 2nd right? Jul 25 03:11:31 3rd Jul 25 03:11:32 hehe Jul 25 03:11:37 2nd one was the worst Jul 25 03:12:03 overheated, had poor signal, and the screen was really loose from the keyboard Jul 25 03:12:15 mine overheats too Jul 25 03:12:15 and 7 stuck, 3 dead pixels Jul 25 03:12:20 Xerran: I got a new one before my 30 day expired and now the one I have which I exchanged on 7/3 has dead pixels which I should get a new one. Jul 25 03:12:22 infobot: podcast is The webos-internals full interview can be found at http://media.libsyn.com/media/treocentral/palmcast68-5.mp3 Jul 25 03:12:24 okay, rwhitby Jul 25 03:12:35 they ALL have stuck and/or dead pixels Jul 25 03:12:45 I've never seen worse screens in my life Jul 25 03:13:20 if you only have stuck pixels keep the phone Jul 25 03:13:24 that is all I have to say Jul 25 03:13:24 okay Jul 25 03:13:34 PreHero: if steps 1 to 6 don't work, you need to talk to DarthPooh to find out what to say to Palm to get it replaced. Jul 25 03:13:39 i think there is a video on youtube that is said to correct stuck pixels Jul 25 03:13:39 dead is a lot worse than stuck Jul 25 03:13:45 Yea, the screens are really cheap quality. The backlight problems are way worse than stuck/dead pixels. Jul 25 03:13:54 hehe Jul 25 03:14:01 I don't mind backlight issues Jul 25 03:14:09 it seems most lcds have them Jul 25 03:14:10 PreHero: apparently some Palm tech told him there is an issue with updates and some are failing, completely unrelated to homebrew or linux access. Jul 25 03:14:14 clouding and stuff Jul 25 03:14:20 Xerran: I also dislike that I see the lights on the edge of the phone, it makes it look like it's broken. Jul 25 03:14:31 but come on.. it's a few inches of frigging screen Jul 25 03:14:32 me and the wife are both having murder with sprint atm Jul 25 03:15:11 PreHero, btw when i had to use the webos i actually erased the device first from the palm website Jul 25 03:15:13 rwhitby, ok. i guess i need to start posting so i can send him a message on the forums. i had some weird update screens since ive been talking not even messing with the phone. Jul 25 03:15:29 so if you think you might have to get a new phone i would use the feature on the website first (as a last resort) Jul 25 03:15:32 james, how did you do that? Jul 25 03:15:38 then try the volume up + power Jul 25 03:15:47 lol, but i'm very inexperienced Jul 25 03:16:12 not sure if the WebOS Doctor supports vista x64 or not Jul 25 03:16:34 palm's website has a "manage device" page where you can login with your e-mail and password (that you used to setup the phone) Jul 25 03:17:01 i have windows 7 x64 and its been a pain to do just about everything lol. Jul 25 03:17:16 PreHero: smooth here. lol. :) Jul 25 03:17:34 it's use is to make the phone inoperable if it's lost or stolen i believe, and i thought the option to "erase device" was the actual webos doctor at the time Jul 25 03:17:56 Does WebOS Doctor support Ubuntu x64? Jul 25 03:18:19 hmm, im up for that. at this point i would be happy to just start over, everything was working great before the 1.1 Jul 25 03:18:24 Xerran: you should be able to do it with ia32libs Jul 25 03:18:43 if you can get novacomd running Jul 25 03:19:52 i dont have enough post on the forums to put up a picture, but this evening i have had an update pop up saying that system update 0 was installed successfully...im pretty sure thats not common Jul 25 03:21:05 james, im going to try the palm website and see if i get anywhere with what you mentioned. Jul 25 03:21:32 idk if it will work Jul 25 03:22:03 but when i had to use the webos doctor i had already erased the device mistakingly and it worked for me Jul 25 03:22:40 i can not get the doctor to work Jul 25 03:22:45 rwhitby, so all of the .ipk optware packages on the webos-internals site will work on the phone? Jul 25 03:22:45 cant click next Jul 25 03:23:21 PreHero - go to ten threads, put a post that says "Tht's really interessting" and you'll have attach ability. Jul 25 03:23:40 james_: which site? Jul 25 03:23:56 xerran, that is the same problem i am having. i also noticed that the reset options through the device settings didnt actually work... Jul 25 03:24:06 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ Jul 25 03:24:10 james_: all the packages listed by "ipkg-opt list" are available, yes. Jul 25 03:24:48 the all compile for the Pre, all the ones we've tried so far run on the Pre too, they may not be optimally configured for the Pre but should be pretty good since optware is for embedded devices. Jul 25 03:24:48 Xerran: # Disconnect the USB cable Jul 25 03:24:48 # Remove the battery Jul 25 03:24:48 # Hold the Up button on the volume rocker Jul 25 03:24:48 # While holding the Up button, reconnect the USB cable Jul 25 03:24:48 # Re-insert the battery. Jul 25 03:25:20 ahh i see the page now Jul 25 03:25:23 Xerran: Just check this link - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover Jul 25 03:25:25 thx Jul 25 03:26:07 I'm sick of the program I was working on Jul 25 03:26:12 someone ask me a tech support question Jul 25 03:26:13 Wow saurik hangs out here, that's nice. Jul 25 03:26:44 The idiot who wrote it inter mingled his functions, his global variables and his calls to functions. Jul 25 03:26:58 it's like reading ms-basic in javascript Jul 25 03:27:06 it's like reading FORTRAN in javascript. Jul 25 03:27:24 It's going to take DAYS to sort out the logic from the setup from the actual program loop. Jul 25 03:28:04 joesmith you on? Jul 25 03:29:20 infobot, slap Rick with the salmon of sensibility. Quit Whining! Jul 25 03:29:21 * infobot slaps Rick with the salmon of sensibility. Quit Whining!, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! Jul 25 03:30:38 PreGame: You here? Jul 25 03:30:50 yea Jul 25 03:30:59 the podcast app is so nice Jul 25 03:31:12 success Jul 25 03:31:15 good interview rwhitby Jul 25 03:31:43 PreGame: Your flashlight program only have white background? Jul 25 03:32:06 how long does it take roughly? Jul 25 03:32:37 PreGame: I might download it just to see if I can make it easy for this sprint noobs to see dead pixel on my phone. Jul 25 03:33:01 thats a thought Jul 25 03:33:23 I am so sick and tired of people working places and do not know their jobs Jul 25 03:33:42 The datacenter I was workign at was like that Jul 25 03:33:46 working Jul 25 03:34:15 thatdude: no it turns on the camera LED Jul 25 03:34:26 bet it's bright as hell Jul 25 03:34:31 ohhhh yea Jul 25 03:34:34 i blinded myself Jul 25 03:34:36 I never heard of a Datacenter technician that did not know how to install or remove RAM before i worked there Jul 25 03:34:39 i will install your app tonight Jul 25 03:34:45 PreGame: Ah that's hot. I was thinking it would be like the iPhone. Did not think of the flash. Jul 25 03:34:46 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254026 $300 for 28" monitor Jul 25 03:35:02 a friend had an led flashlight app on his blackberry storm and it was cool Jul 25 03:35:51 I wonder how long it takes to create a black led background to just see dead pixel. The only way I know is when I am booting webOS Jul 25 03:36:23 dead pixel! Jul 25 03:36:25 craziness! Jul 25 03:36:25 raeb http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3326540&CatId=3774 Jul 25 03:37:09 My Axim X50v had a dea dpixel once Jul 25 03:37:16 i massaged it out Jul 25 03:37:23 rick__ winnar Jul 25 03:37:42 actually Jul 25 03:37:46 newegg has free shipping Jul 25 03:37:52 I like those folks, they've NEVER screwed me, honored every warranty, and their shipping policies are reasonable. Jul 25 03:38:01 newegg rocks Jul 25 03:38:03 Of course, the fact that I'm 70 miles from one of their warehouses helps.... Jul 25 03:38:43 damn, i truly need a UPS :( Jul 25 03:39:00 if somehtign happened now my pre would be toast Jul 25 03:39:02 free shipping - newegg wins by $3 Jul 25 03:39:11 why? Jul 25 03:39:12 for me, by $7 Jul 25 03:39:23 the bootsector writing is probably very short Jul 25 03:39:23 as I said. 70 miles Jul 25 03:39:27 running WebOS Doctor Jul 25 03:39:28 lol Jul 25 03:39:38 however, newegg deal is only for the weekend, then it goes up 10 bux Jul 25 03:39:45 no Xerran you just start it over. Jul 25 03:39:45 looks like tigerdirect has that price always Jul 25 03:39:48 I think it's always recoverable anyway Jul 25 03:39:54 you can't hurt the bootloader Jul 25 03:39:55 ohh Jul 25 03:40:04 it's in a protected rom that we _THINK_ is on the modem chip. Jul 25 03:40:08 reminds me of BIOS updates back in the day Jul 25 03:40:10 lol Jul 25 03:40:17 but anyway, webdoctor doesn't overwrite it when you update the os. Jul 25 03:40:21 Rick__: I think it's in the soc Jul 25 03:40:23 as rom Jul 25 03:40:26 so, powerup always works. Jul 25 03:40:28 but not radio Jul 25 03:40:44 what about sprint's wipe fetaure Jul 25 03:40:49 can u get outta that with the doctor ? Jul 25 03:41:12 hey rick Jul 25 03:41:18 still here Jul 25 03:41:31 Rick__: where did you see that anyway? Jul 25 03:43:31 I wonder why palm chose java for luna Jul 25 03:45:11 it's not all java Jul 25 03:45:15 java = cross platform Jul 25 03:45:16 but I wonder that also Jul 25 03:45:33 java devs are plentiful Jul 25 03:46:11 java programmers 24 for $1.29 Jul 25 03:46:15 hehe Jul 25 03:46:16 if I understand it, luna is mostly a compositor and a host for luna plugins Jul 25 03:46:20 it's rapid I guess Jul 25 03:46:21 uh Jul 25 03:46:23 no Jul 25 03:46:30 of which there is only one, the LunaWebkitPlugin Jul 25 03:46:30 java is slow as crap to load though Jul 25 03:46:38 and memory eater Jul 25 03:46:47 seems they use java to bootstrap jni native code Jul 25 03:46:53 which makes no sense to me Jul 25 03:48:07 so java dudes. plugin people. Jul 25 03:48:20 I'm about to give up on my career of porting oler apps. Jul 25 03:48:23 older Jul 25 03:48:37 since I'm sick to death of the programming quality and just almost broke my desk. Jul 25 03:48:54 that bad, huh Jul 25 03:48:59 yeah Jul 25 03:49:01 that bad. Jul 25 03:49:22 its hard for me to read my teammates code without cringing and wanting to gouge my eyeballs out Jul 25 03:49:48 intermingling process code with function definitions. Jul 25 03:49:57 intermingling process code with variable initialization Jul 25 03:50:19 the call to start the program half way down the code.... Jul 25 03:50:19 hehe Jul 25 03:50:37 any good links to read for creating clean js code? Jul 25 03:50:42 I'm just starting to code js Jul 25 03:50:56 I guess going to use the mvc way of coding Jul 25 03:51:02 lol Jul 25 03:51:05 good choice ;) Jul 25 03:51:08 and then there's the frustration that porting older javascript video games will never feel right due to the lack of the music, since the pre lacks a midi player. Jul 25 03:51:29 jwm, "Javascript: The Good Parts." Jul 25 03:51:48 did your english teacher show you Strunk and White's "Elements of Style" ??? Jul 25 03:51:53 is it me or does mojo look like mootools? Jul 25 03:52:02 tiny little book with everything you need to know about writing english? Jul 25 03:52:03 I never had an english teacher Jul 25 03:52:09 I was born in the usa unfortunately Jul 25 03:52:11 heh Jul 25 03:52:17 * rwhitby has another dig at secretive GUI installer projects in http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1777790 Jul 25 03:52:37 ahhh well, anyway, Javascript: the good parts is the Strunk and White of js programming Jul 25 03:52:46 everythign you need to know in less than 200 pages. Jul 25 03:52:54 it's dense, but it's wonderful. Jul 25 03:52:58 strunk and white ? Jul 25 03:53:15 that's cool my attention span is about 200 pages Jul 25 03:53:24 Rick__: the very first stage bootloader can only be accessed by TI tools we think, not the doctor. The second stage bootloader needs to be in place for the doctor to work. Jul 25 03:54:05 raeb, you had really crappy school teachers, right? Jul 25 03:54:13 definately Jul 25 03:54:17 jwm: "never had an english teacher", "born in the usa" <- nice one centurion Jul 25 03:54:25 public school Jul 25 03:54:45 some public schools are great. My children (and I) went to great schools Jul 25 03:54:49 depends on where you live. Jul 25 03:54:58 * destinal adds Javascript the good parts to a shopping cart Jul 25 03:55:34 until you get a copy of that, go read http://www.crockford.com/javascript/ Jul 25 03:55:46 douglas crockford is the lead javascript programmer for Yahoo. Jul 25 03:55:52 he invented JSON Jul 25 03:56:09 hmmmmm Jul 25 03:56:11 as a matter of fact, the international JSON standards body is Douglas Crockford. :-) Jul 25 03:56:42 and 80% of what's in JS:TGP is on his web page. Jul 25 03:56:53 most of whats in JSON existed in javascript Jul 25 03:56:58 nodnod Jul 25 03:57:08 that's why he did it that way Jul 25 03:57:19 json standard must describe the communicaiton protocol Jul 25 03:57:21 yeh? Jul 25 03:57:29 nope Jul 25 03:57:41 hey rick Jul 25 03:57:47 hey goe Jul 25 03:57:49 joesmith Jul 25 03:57:50 did you want something earlier Jul 25 03:57:54 yeah Jul 25 03:58:12 if you plan on useing brothercakes chess notator, use it in the pre's browser for now. Jul 25 03:58:32 it works? Jul 25 03:58:39 'cause the thing is written with such utter spaghetti javascript that it will take literally 30 to 40 hours to untangle and move into a scene Jul 25 03:58:50 it works FINE in the browser from his web site. Jul 25 03:58:56 jsut maeke a shortcut. Jul 25 03:58:57 cool I was going to try it, but I thought it would just fail Jul 25 03:58:58 rofl Jul 25 03:59:02 nope Jul 25 03:59:17 testing it now then Jul 25 03:59:33 joesmith it's like reading late 1970's home taught microsoft basic - directly translated to javascript. Jul 25 03:59:52 sorting out what does what and getting a functional scene will take days. Jul 25 04:00:04 WOW Jul 25 04:00:15 and since I have to make a living, and keep my wife resonably happy, that translates to MONTHS of time on hobby stuff. Jul 25 04:00:49 dont worry about it then, I appreciate all you have done Jul 25 04:00:52 so, try the notator directly from his web site. It will work. Jul 25 04:00:52 rick, you seem intelligent in javascript. would you like to test something for me for confirmation? Jul 25 04:01:27 hehehe. Rick is moderately unretarded in js. Rick still has trouble with lambda and closures. Jul 25 04:01:35 but sure. Jul 25 04:01:37 go for it. Jul 25 04:02:43 well for starters Jul 25 04:02:47 * Rick__ still thinks recursion is cheating, or perhaps magic. Jul 25 04:02:56 can you view e-mail in landscape mode on your phone? Jul 25 04:03:03 yes. Jul 25 04:03:13 by default or did you script it? Jul 25 04:03:28 mod'ed the email program -- was it a one or two line mod? Jul 25 04:03:35 ok i did as well Jul 25 04:03:38 ok Jul 25 04:03:50 the page regarding it says the following: Currently does NOT work in 1.1. Typing "wide" at the account listing activates this feature in 1.1, but it is not persistent between application launches. Further work needs to be done to make it persistent and not require a keyword entry. Jul 25 04:04:06 but my e-mail works in landscape mode with no keyword entry Jul 25 04:04:09 mod didn't live through the 1.1 update tho. Jul 25 04:04:21 i modded it last night (the additions to the script) Jul 25 04:04:27 huh Jul 25 04:04:32 i did not mod the "wide" for RocknRollHax Jul 25 04:04:36 I haven't looked at it since 1.1 Jul 25 04:04:59 so which mod did you use? Jul 25 04:05:03 all 3 Jul 25 04:05:15 let me be specific 1 sec Jul 25 04:05:18 ????????????? Jul 25 04:05:28 mine works in 1.1.0 Jul 25 04:05:34 I redid the mod though Jul 25 04:05:40 list-assistant.js, accounts-assistant.js, and compose-assistant.js Jul 25 04:05:42 hey guys, wondering if there is an update for the character counter Jul 25 04:05:44 * Rick__ wonders what this has to do with him being intelligent about javascript, but oh well.... Jul 25 04:05:57 and all those HOW TO scripts that were posted work for 1.1 now. Jul 25 04:06:19 rick, basically i added the scripts for those files that the wiki said to mod Jul 25 04:06:24 and it works in 1.1 Jul 25 04:06:28 james_ where's the source of what yu did.... ? Jul 25 04:06:31 but the site says it doesn't work Jul 25 04:06:47 which page? Jul 25 04:07:03 james, what do you want to mod? Jul 25 04:07:04 * joesmith forgot aboot character counter, need to redo that Jul 25 04:07:43 Decimation he _did_ mod it, but the wiki says it doesn't work in 1.1 but it did. Persistant landscape for email. Jul 25 04:07:55 is there a way to make /media/internal writable by user? Jul 25 04:07:56 yes, it has been updated to work Jul 25 04:08:02 the page is inaccurate in that it says 1-the mods do not work in webos 1.1 and 2-the scripts require a keyword entry Jul 25 04:08:05 i have that enabled also rick Jul 25 04:08:07 I've tried a million ways to remount and it won't budge Jul 25 04:09:02 I even tried creating a new mountpoint and it doesn't work still Jul 25 04:09:09 xcomp /media/internal si the only dir that IS writable by user Jul 25 04:09:15 has anyone been able to confirm bookmarks in audio work Jul 25 04:09:26 Rick__: i mean writable by my login userid Jul 25 04:09:34 right now it's only writable by root Jul 25 04:09:35 * rwhitby chuckles at "Attempting to rotate the keyboard to landscape mode is known to bork a Pre." :-) Jul 25 04:09:44 i dont wanna try it myself joesmith, but i havent heard any mention of it. Jul 25 04:09:49 rwhitby -- good morning. Jul 25 04:09:49 lol, rwhitby, i read that Jul 25 04:09:53 but where did i read that? Jul 25 04:09:55 I'm glad you liked that. Jul 25 04:10:01 in the setup instructions for terminal Jul 25 04:10:06 oh, lol Jul 25 04:10:07 Decimation: on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 25 04:10:19 lol Jul 25 04:10:47 Rick__: problem is that I can't write to it using sshfs unless it's writable by the login user (no root ssh login) Jul 25 04:10:52 rwhitby: screenshot? (or does that not work while it's open?) Jul 25 04:10:56 it would be cool if it worked... hardware hackers of the world-- get started. Jul 25 04:11:16 Templarian: there's a screenshot on PreCentral Jul 25 04:11:36 rwhitby we ought to put a screenshot on the page tho. Jul 25 04:11:38 which I think en0x sent it, so he could upload to wiki too. Jul 25 04:11:39 simple enough. Jul 25 04:11:58 he just screenshot the emulator Jul 25 04:12:47 james_ since it works, why don't you go edit the wiki and fix it. Jul 25 04:13:07 destinal: let me know when you guys have a stable update, and we'll start teaching people how to ipkg -o /var upgrade .... Jul 25 04:13:17 (hehehe -- rick recruits wiki editors at every turn.) Jul 25 04:13:26 rwhitby: will do Jul 25 04:13:36 any progress today destinal? Jul 25 04:13:39 Rick_, i have no confirmation if it works for others as well Jul 25 04:13:51 yes you do Jul 25 04:13:58 destinal: or once I have the autobuilder set up you guys can just increment the numbers in the preware git repo and the feed will be updated automatically. Jul 25 04:14:32 seems like the terminal is fond of memory leaks Jul 25 04:14:37 james_ Decimation said he had it enabled. Jul 25 04:14:40 asked me to close cards with nothing open... Jul 25 04:14:46 DarthPooh yes it is. Jul 25 04:15:06 Rick_ lol ok, just making sure I wasnt on crack... well anymore at least :) Jul 25 04:15:07 they're working on that. Jul 25 04:15:39 yeah, no big deal, thought I'd give some feedback, just came home and installed it Jul 25 04:15:44 netwhiz wrote 7/24/09 that with 1.1 there is no need to edit any pages Jul 25 04:15:46 if I understood the explanation correctly earlier, it scrolls and scrolls and scrolls and scrolls and never scrolls off, and if I understood corectly,it's scrolling PIXELS not CHARACTERS.... Jul 25 04:15:48 of course it's too little too late Jul 25 04:16:14 james_ since when do you take everything that someone else wrote to heart. Jul 25 04:16:28 ah, so it's filling the buffer hence the crash Jul 25 04:16:35 well, leak Jul 25 04:16:41 i just don't feel right about editing the wiki :P i'm a newbie Jul 25 04:16:44 if you have reality and the wiki doesn't in fact reflect reality, please fix it. Jul 25 04:17:00 james_ NONE OF THIS EXISTED TWO WEEKS AGO Jul 25 04:17:05 none of it. Jul 25 04:17:06 nothing Jul 25 04:17:07 yeah, i had the same problem with the terminal darthpooh Jul 25 04:17:37 james_: it save the histroy, that's one of the features of a wiki Jul 25 04:17:40 Rick__: were you going to do it if not I'll add the screenshot right now? Jul 25 04:17:43 It was combobulated out of the combined minds of several dozen people crystalizing around rwhitby's vision Jul 25 04:17:52 Go ahead Templarian Jul 25 04:17:56 Dieter has filled me in with how Precentral would like to handle it... I love the idea essentially, Rod has allured to it in his posts Jul 25 04:18:13 alluded? Jul 25 04:18:16 and any way... as Decimation said, if you do something stuipd, the history is there, we can just revert the page. Jul 25 04:18:21 that too Jul 25 04:18:27 james_: don't mind Rick__, he uses all caps sometimes but he doesn't bite :-) Jul 25 04:19:11 is anyone developing a google voice app that you guys know of? Jul 25 04:19:31 DarthPooh: I had a long skype call with Dieter and Marcus last night, and I think I converted them to my way of thinking about a free and open market for package feeds :-) Jul 25 04:19:34 Decimation, did you edit all 3 files to enable e-mail in landscape? Jul 25 04:19:37 * Rick__ pounds head against table... DOn't hit noobs. Don't hit noobs. Don't hit noobs. No hitting. -- there.. I feel MUCH better now. Jul 25 04:19:40 or just the 2? Jul 25 04:19:45 james, i used that guys HOWTO post Jul 25 04:19:51 just quicker.. Jul 25 04:20:11 only files ive edited manually have been to enable text forwarding with the message pop up asking if you want to forward or not Jul 25 04:20:17 * joesmith wonders when msn will be supported on the pre Jul 25 04:20:29 when joesmith writes it? :-) Jul 25 04:20:38 ok Jul 25 04:20:42 can you compile libpurple with msn support? Jul 25 04:20:51 I am just using the cloud atm Jul 25 04:21:01 ?? Jul 25 04:21:06 DarthPooh -- PuffTheMagic is deep into coding the php to accept submissions to the repository. Jul 25 04:21:09 Decimation, what howto pot? Jul 25 04:21:12 err post Jul 25 04:21:12 -{ }- Jul 25 04:21:27 james, here it is Jul 25 04:21:28 http://discussion.treocentral.com/web-os-development/191814-howto-always-enable-e-mail-app-rotation-w-landscape-view.html Jul 25 04:21:32 http://www.meebo.com/ Jul 25 04:21:46 just copy his whole script into the terminal when logged in as root or your name or whatever you ues Jul 25 04:21:47 [_] - { } - [_] Jul 25 04:21:47 and rwhitby has the repository running, as terminal proves. Jul 25 04:21:48 use Jul 25 04:21:50 rwhitby, yep, I am a fan of your compelling arguments, I spoke to dieter yesterday and told him I felt it should be very "open" as well Jul 25 04:21:58 and Palm installed the over-the-air installer for us. Jul 25 04:21:59 he concurs. Jul 25 04:22:01 I use this at my local college where the block all those im ports Jul 25 04:22:16 http://www.meebo.com/ Jul 25 04:22:18 and so, all we need is a graphical front end to call ipkg Jul 25 04:22:28 it needs to get a list from ipkg of what's on the repository, Jul 25 04:22:42 present a list of "stuff" and then let you click on one to install it. Jul 25 04:22:54 Rick__: there are appmanager services which give the javascript interface to ipkg Jul 25 04:22:56 and that's it. Instant "freeware app-store." Jul 25 04:23:12 and a Weave Js library too Jul 25 04:23:25 rwhitby so, we just need a tiny tiny plugin to call the ipkg from mojo right? Jul 25 04:23:38 did anyone answer what the minimum api to connect js to dbus is? Jul 25 04:23:39 has anyone wonders why you can make the app launcher icon invisible on the sdk but no on the pre? Jul 25 04:23:47 it took iphone jailbreakers months to do what you guys are doing :) we're ahead of the game fine sirs :P Jul 25 04:24:00 Rick__: I think (haven't looked) that everything you need is already in the javascript libraries Jul 25 04:24:25 rwhitby but the js is in the sandbox. You have to have a plugin to activate the ipkg. Jul 25 04:24:25 Decimation: heh - they started with a closed phone. we started with a wide open phone. not really a good comparison. Jul 25 04:24:27 Decimation: they had an actual technical challenge and no headers at all, so no actual apps Jul 25 04:24:42 I mean a security challenge to run code at all Jul 25 04:24:59 hah, yeah, just saying. Jul 25 04:25:00 whereas, Palm has freely given some headers in response to open source requests. Jul 25 04:25:01 for Pre you need to know some code that was found in a file Jul 25 04:25:04 Iphones are for; in the words of fischer, "patzers" ;) Jul 25 04:25:20 james: get the email rotation working? Jul 25 04:25:40 I say a week before there is a "wrapper" for the terminal Jul 25 04:25:58 So, rwhitby where are js implementations of ipkg wrappers? Jul 25 04:26:04 there is one now Jul 25 04:26:08 Rick__: we should do a screen shot running "ipkg -o /var list" Jul 25 04:26:31 if you want a plugin just for executing code or some js api in the plugin that could be done if it isn't already Jul 25 04:26:50 think of the embedded terminal in synaptic Jul 25 04:26:51 Rick__: PreGame knows Jul 25 04:26:58 which is vte Jul 25 04:27:03 Rick__: (where the JS libraries are) Jul 25 04:27:10 :rod_ http://brothercake.com/site/resources/games/chess/ doesnt work in web browser Jul 25 04:27:15 :( Jul 25 04:27:26 well crud. Jul 25 04:27:32 ok, what happens joesmith? Jul 25 04:27:41 * rwhitby wonders why joesmith directed that at me specifically ... Jul 25 04:27:51 he ment rick Jul 25 04:28:06 ah, that makes more sense :-) Jul 25 04:28:08 the same thing when you try it in firefox Jul 25 04:28:21 Sorry ... ChessPlayer is not compatible with your web browser. The game supports Windows versions of Internet Explorer 5 and 6 only. Jul 25 04:28:28 ah crud puppies. Jul 25 04:28:37 wait. Jul 25 04:28:38 tmzt, there is? i musta missed that Jul 25 04:29:29 what the terminal is .ipk already? Jul 25 04:29:40 so when do you guys expect to see a GUI for the termnial installation method. Jul 25 04:30:20 edited the e-mail landscape view page! i am now part of the webos community! Jul 25 04:30:36 lol Jul 25 04:30:48 lol, congrats james. Jul 25 04:31:02 Bummer I was updating to 1.1.0 & I think I just bricked my Pre. Any tricks when using WebOSDr? Jul 25 04:31:26 how did you brick it? Jul 25 04:32:32 I did a cd /; quilt pop -a; ran update and when it rebooted, it just won't power on Jul 25 04:32:38 halula, put it in USB mode Jul 25 04:32:46 and run webOS doc Jul 25 04:32:54 * joesmith loves personally knowing a manager at sprint, who gives free accessories and pre exchanges out like candy Jul 25 04:33:33 Robi_: regarding your edit on the Terminal page for luna-send, can you please note the instructions for an upgrade of the plugin, cause a rescan will not cut it. Jul 25 04:33:34 Is that Vol up and power at same time to put in USB mode Jul 25 04:34:02 no Jul 25 04:34:03 rwhitby: restart service? Jul 25 04:34:24 Robi_: yeah, but I can't test that now, so please confirm. Jul 25 04:34:57 halula, pull the battery out... hold up, insert usb into the Pre, you should see a battery with a ?, insert the battery, then a nice BIG USB symbol will appear, run webOS doc Jul 25 04:35:04 not sure i can either Jul 25 04:35:28 Robi_: reboot is guaranteed to work ;-) Jul 25 04:35:33 i'll provide escalated instructions in case desired results aren't achieved Jul 25 04:35:46 including a fucking reboot Jul 25 04:36:03 joesmith the idiot used microsoft -exclusive calls to dom elements. Jul 25 04:36:10 Recoding that will take forever. Jul 25 04:36:28 every line will have to re-factored to use innerhtml instead of document.write. Jul 25 04:36:29 omd, geekgasm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6jfm0hq0bk Jul 25 04:36:32 hours and hours and hours Jul 25 04:36:42 might be faster to start from scratch. :-( Jul 25 04:37:29 Yea... much quicker. Jul 25 04:39:35 has anyone figured out how to get an image into the header Jul 25 04:40:18 would I be a n00b if I thought wtf was tron? Jul 25 04:41:12 you would be like, uh under 30, right? Jul 25 04:41:28 16 Jul 25 04:41:33 actually, my 30 year old knows all about tron. Jul 25 04:41:40 yeah. 16 that makes sense. Jul 25 04:42:07 back when dinosaurs ruled the earth... and the world was young.... Jul 25 04:42:17 rwhitby: whomever edited the page last left it uneditable Jul 25 04:42:26 hmm that kinda sounds insulting "that makes sense" Jul 25 04:42:32 ;) Jul 25 04:42:40 Robi_ which page? Jul 25 04:42:48 joesmith I'm old. Jul 25 04:42:55 for a programmer, I'm -really- old. Jul 25 04:43:45 terminal Jul 25 04:43:55 has a SS now but can't edit sections Jul 25 04:45:08 Rick_, no, for a programmer, my dad is old! 63, Cobal programmer :) Jul 25 04:45:24 not Cobal 2 either... Jul 25 04:45:34 the orignal gansta shit Jul 25 04:45:36 ;) Jul 25 04:45:51 * Robi_ hacks the edit url Jul 25 04:45:58 http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/24/iphones-augmented-reality-apps-coming-with-september-os-3-1-lau/ Jul 25 04:46:03 that is some cool stuff Jul 25 04:46:04 but, oddly enough, to this day, he still complains about shitty code. Jul 25 04:47:15 Robi_ it's editable now Jul 25 04:47:55 ya i see you got it out of the yellow madness Jul 25 04:48:12 you may want to move the pic to a better place Jul 25 04:48:27 DarthPooh Yeah, i work with a guy as a consultant who's 74 who programmed in fortran and cobol in the early 60's. Now he write control logic for model airplanes. Jul 25 04:48:28 and make it smaller for pete's sake Jul 25 04:48:39 Robi_ the template is the problem Jul 25 04:48:43 that template needs to be edited. Jul 25 04:48:44 oh yeah, he did fortran too... Jul 25 04:48:52 That's the part at the top in the {{ }} Jul 25 04:48:59 punch cards Jul 25 04:49:06 and who ever set it up was not entirely uh, well, it needs work. Jul 25 04:49:18 DarthPooh _I_ did punch cards. Jul 25 04:49:26 yeah, you're old :D Jul 25 04:49:26 ltos and lots and lots of punch cards. Jul 25 04:49:34 and lots Jul 25 04:49:45 sucks you gotta use Jul 25 04:49:46 boxes and boxes of them, stacked in my room under the bed. Jul 25 04:49:48 lol, when I was a kid... I used to say to my dad, Don't Trip. Jul 25 04:50:05 can it do aliased command tags? Jul 25 04:50:13 [[code]] was nice Jul 25 04:50:21 he always laughed, cause I said if you fall all of your programming is down the tubes. He told me he would make me reorder it. Jul 25 04:50:24 Robi_ use Jul 25 04:50:47 we always punched guide numebrs on the edge and used a card-sorter. Jul 25 04:50:49 welp guys, off to bed. I heart youse Jul 25 04:51:07 Rick_ so did they, but it was a running gag we had going Jul 25 04:51:32 Robi_ http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting Jul 25 04:51:38 I told him if I reordered it, it would spit out the cure to the common cold :) Jul 25 04:51:49 its not the same Jul 25 04:52:02 doesn't look good Jul 25 04:53:11 ok Jul 25 04:53:16 that's a css problem Jul 25 04:53:27 not a problem with the coding of the page. Jul 25 04:53:40 frekin 
 tags galore, yuck
Jul 25 04:53:45  but you can do this:  (it sucks but you can do it) until we get the css for code fixed...
Jul 25 04:54:33  
 

Jul 25 04:54:36  that looks fine
Jul 25 04:54:45  and we can edit the css.
Jul 25 04:55:22  all the sections are messed up too
Jul 25 04:55:28  edits the wrong one
Jul 25 05:04:15  Rick__: you resize the image?
Jul 25 05:06:22  i gues someone did
Jul 25 05:06:30  my attempts at style mods fail
Jul 25 05:06:40  and then the image shrinks on its own
Jul 25 05:06:43  Robi_  I edited the tempate.
Jul 25 05:06:49  the Image is not part of the page.
Jul 25 05:06:56  Mediawiki is moderately complex
Jul 25 05:06:59  where the heck is the template
Jul 25 05:07:13  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Template:Application
Jul 25 05:07:44  that is the thing that gets called when the mediawiki encounters the {{Appication  phrase.
Jul 25 05:08:00  that says _- go find the application template and take these here values and insert them into it.
Jul 25 05:08:09  which is REALLY COOL so you get consistant formatting from page to page.
Jul 25 05:08:21  templates are VERY VERY powerful.
Jul 25 05:08:25  yae ya
Jul 25 05:08:41  i see u made it a thumbb
Jul 25 05:08:50  Hiya fellas
Jul 25 05:08:51  right no less
Jul 25 05:09:31 * Robi_ bows to the Rick__wiki_moves
Jul 25 05:11:41  1600 wikipedia edits Robi_
Jul 25 05:11:53  you learn a few things about mediawiki in 1600 trys
Jul 25 05:12:15  oldest wikipedia edit - 9 feb 2003
Jul 25 05:12:26  coulda been intranet mediawiki edits
Jul 25 05:14:22  that doesn't count the wikimedia edits, or the non-english ones....
Jul 25 05:16:34  Guys, what is the website for palm profile?
Jul 25 05:18:53  any way to transfer palm profile contacts to my google account?
Jul 25 05:19:27  ha, i have been having problems with my pre, just made a little progress. i have windows 7 x64 (inherently troublesome with drivers) so i deleted the nova drivers and reinstalled manually and re-added the registry file and i now have linux access again.  still working on my log in though, its still mia
Jul 25 05:20:57  "upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart" can now be done with: "webos20090606"
Jul 25 05:21:12  anyone know if the old one still works?  It's MUCH cooler.
Jul 25 05:21:41  PreHero  if you have linux access, run the optware-bootstrap shell script
Jul 25 05:21:44  haha!  that fixed the webos doc issue i was having!  the doc program wouldnt recognize when i connected my pre
Jul 25 05:22:00  what is the bootstrap?
Jul 25 05:22:30  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps
Jul 25 05:22:39  that
Jul 25 05:22:44  my initial plans are to go ahead and re-flash, then set access again
Jul 25 05:22:50  ok
Jul 25 05:22:59  we strongly urge that you run that script after getting access....
Jul 25 05:23:40  ahh, sorry. i had only worked the old way with everything manually
Jul 25 05:24:43  upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastarts still works
Jul 25 05:24:48  i look forward to using those scripts, makes an easy job less chance of fat finger errors, though truthfully i always cut and paste lol
Jul 25 05:25:19  PreHero, did you get your phone working?
Jul 25 05:26:10  getting closer...just got a phone disconnect error on the doc program, setting it up again
Jul 25 05:27:06  but i got root access again through the nova proxy after i deleted all the drivers off my computer and reinstalled, manually of course bc im running windows 7 64
Jul 25 05:29:42  ha, ill take it! web doc is running good now
Jul 25 05:30:32  whew, im heading to bed. thanks for all your help guys. you guys rock!
Jul 25 05:32:45  PreHero: good news
Jul 25 05:32:54  yes congrats
Jul 25 05:33:21  drat. I need a mic.
Jul 25 05:33:39  I impressed my friends with the 8 ball app
Jul 25 05:33:49  too bad someone has not hacked the pre to act as a usb mic
Jul 25 05:33:51  and convinced them the Pre is better than the iPhone :)
Jul 25 05:34:02  Victory is ours
Jul 25 05:34:17  haha, cool
Jul 25 05:34:22  i saw the 8ball app post but did not install it
Jul 25 05:34:35  i'll have to check it out now
Jul 25 05:36:27  anyone ever had issues signing into your palm profile after using WebOS Doctor?
Jul 25 05:36:46  *their
Jul 25 05:37:54  Xerran: I haven't heard of it
Jul 25 05:38:19  keeps telling me to move into a wireless service area
Jul 25 05:38:21  wth?
Jul 25 05:38:23  *knock on wood* haven't had to use the webos doctor
Jul 25 05:38:25  i am in nYC
Jul 25 05:38:32  NYC
Jul 25 05:38:38  it needs to connect to your palm profile
Jul 25 05:42:36  good evening
Jul 25 05:43:17 * BlitzK seems to be having some issues with the prebrew installer.
Jul 25 05:43:19  Anyone willing to throw a few suggestions my way?
Jul 25 05:45:49  BlitzK: RTF... i mean, be more specific so someone can help you
Jul 25 05:45:57  how can i delete a username on my pre?
Jul 25 05:46:16  in the opt
Jul 25 05:47:11  BlitzK  -- use the installer that came with the sdk for now.
Jul 25 05:47:39  ok, I will look into that.  I hadn't donwloaded it yet
Jul 25 05:47:43  ty
Jul 25 05:47:52  BlitzK it's the simplest answer, really it is
Jul 25 05:48:04  kk
Jul 25 05:48:06  we'll have something "more intersting" in a couple of days
Jul 25 05:48:36  heh, cool.  is there good documentation with the SDK for installing ipk's?
Jul 25 05:48:43  (((Rick thinks of gui over-the-air installs from an alternate app store and decides that yes, that's more interesting. )))
Jul 25 05:49:01  BlitzK  It gives you a batch file, cleverly called palm-install.bat
Jul 25 05:49:16  you drag any ipk onto that bat file, and drop it, and boomo-it installs it.
Jul 25 05:49:17  kk, thank you
Jul 25 05:49:21  is that simple enough?
Jul 25 05:49:24 * BlitzK wanders off to install the SDK
Jul 25 05:49:31  yes, it is.  :-)
Jul 25 05:49:42  right.  I thought so too.
Jul 25 05:50:01 * Rick__ still wants the over-the-air-gui-app-store thingy.
Jul 25 05:50:15 * BlitzK seconds that
Jul 25 05:51:29  meh, SDK installer says to close IRC.  catch ya laters, and thanks again!
Jul 25 05:53:20 * Rick__ off to bed
Jul 25 05:59:23  Robi_: about the  tag: we could make a template for shorthand; something like {{src| code goes here}}
Jul 25 05:59:58  X1011: plz do the needful
Jul 25 06:05:38  hey guyss.
Jul 25 06:05:54  yo
Jul 25 06:06:05  any webOS programmers here?
Jul 25 06:06:12  Robi_ X1011  I edited common css
Jul 25 06:06:29  the pre-tag that source and code uses is now at font 120%
Jul 25 06:06:36  please go look at a page with source now.
Jul 25 06:06:47  it looks "better"
Jul 25 06:06:50  hey rick, any news on a gui for installing apps? lol
Jul 25 06:06:58  i know it hasnt been long, but im anxious
Jul 25 06:06:59  Decimation  patience
Jul 25 06:07:09  Puff  and Temp need sleep
Jul 25 06:07:11  So do I
Jul 25 06:07:18  uhh it looks worse
Jul 25 06:07:24  worse?
Jul 25 06:07:40  there's something about a courier font getting large that looks arse
Jul 25 06:07:46  ok
Jul 25 06:07:51  what font family would you like?
Jul 25 06:07:51  there's better monospace font
Jul 25 06:07:58  it _has_ to be monospaced.
Jul 25 06:08:12  fixedsys
Jul 25 06:08:23  Robi_ yes, but this is the web...
Jul 25 06:08:30  lol, i know
Jul 25 06:08:39  i just dont know what time zones and such you guys are in
Jul 25 06:08:43  So, politely we have to list a cascade of fonts that people might, or might not have....
Jul 25 06:08:50  the new wiki confused me.
Jul 25 06:08:55  Decimation irc will tell you that.
Jul 25 06:09:52  right now all it says is font-family:monospace; so it uses whatever YOUR BROWSER's DEFAULT MONOSPACE is....
Jul 25 06:09:56  which of course, you could change
Jul 25 06:10:09  Rick_: that's a good thing
Jul 25 06:10:10  to anything you wanted....
Jul 25 06:10:14  nodnod.
Jul 25 06:10:26  mine automatically uses Lucida Console.
Jul 25 06:10:53  which is my favorite fixed width font.  It - more than almost anything I use makes ( and { and [ clear at small sizes.....
Jul 25 06:11:05  which courier and fixedsys fail at miserably
Jul 25 06:11:08  maybe leave the font size alone; what exactly are you trying to fix anyway?
Jul 25 06:11:24  hi all,
Jul 25 06:11:24  ok, I'll back it down
Jul 25 06:11:30  off topic. does anyone know about computer mics?
Jul 25 06:11:40  it was at 75% and was a LOT smaller than the font for the rest of the text.
Jul 25 06:11:46  I'll try 100.
Jul 25 06:11:50  I'm looking at a snowball. or a semi decent mic for a mac mini
Jul 25 06:11:50  do I need to create an account to make changes to the wiki or do we use the previous password with a generic account?
Jul 25 06:11:50  right now it's like the duplo experience
Jul 25 06:11:57  ok
Jul 25 06:12:12  shoot for lego size
Jul 25 06:12:13  yes sushi2 you have to make an account to make changes to the wiki
Jul 25 06:12:33  Rick_ thx - will do now - have some bits to add to the accelerometer page
Jul 25 06:12:49  hey, i have a question about syncing between my palm profile contacts and google contacts...
Jul 25 06:13:57  do the palm migration tools do anything>?
Jul 25 06:14:07  see the palm support website
Jul 25 06:15:01  ive looked around
Jul 25 06:15:03  Rick_: where do you see 75%? it's default size for me
Jul 25 06:15:19  couldnt find any solution to sync my palm profile contacts to my google account
Jul 25 06:17:04  ok try it now.
Jul 25 06:17:07  at 100%
Jul 25 06:17:46  Decimation - there are ways, but it's too late to discuss them tonight
Jul 25 06:19:13  it should be back to the way you want it X1011 and Robi_
Jul 25 06:19:25  I liked it bigger....
Jul 25 06:19:26  ya it's been a few min
Jul 25 06:19:27  oh well.
Jul 25 06:19:38  ya prolly cuz u run your screen rez at 1600
Jul 25 06:19:48  with ratpoison
Jul 25 06:19:49  uh yeah.
Jul 25 06:20:15  Rick_: you don't have to specify font size 100%, there's nothing saying otherwise
Jul 25 06:20:39  well,  1280x1024 on screen 1 and 1600 x 960 on screen 2
Jul 25 06:20:46  Rick_: also, these should probably be in monobook.css instead
Jul 25 06:20:53  nodnod
Jul 25 06:20:55  added some sample code to the wiki RE: accelerometer
Jul 25 06:20:56  they should
Jul 25 06:21:10  and if you want to edit common.css and monobook.css again, go for it.
Jul 25 06:21:41  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Monobook.css
Jul 25 06:21:55  amd http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css
Jul 25 06:22:06  whatever's in there, overrides the css file
Jul 25 06:22:08  :-)
Jul 25 06:22:12  now  bed.  damn it.
Jul 25 06:22:13  who, me? i'll need sysop status
Jul 25 06:22:19  I don't think you do
Jul 25 06:22:22  try it.
Jul 25 06:22:40  i'm staring at it. says view source
Jul 25 06:22:46  crud puppies
Jul 25 06:22:48  ok
Jul 25 06:22:50  tommrow
Jul 25 06:22:58  sure
Jul 25 06:23:21  g'night
Jul 25 06:24:13  ok, my account doesn't have a magic wand.  I'll borrow one tommorow for you
Jul 25 06:24:14  gnight
Jul 25 06:24:47  tap you on the head and make you a bureaurocrat -- one layer below sysop.
Jul 25 06:25:00  ah
Jul 25 06:29:20  gnight
Jul 25 06:36:38  nite
Jul 25 06:37:28  is it legal to post the master subsidy lock code on the wiki?
Jul 25 06:39:10  its not illegal, some may just not like it
Jul 25 06:39:36  who is some?
Jul 25 06:40:09  you'll find out im' sure
Jul 25 06:40:25  haha, no thanks. ill let it lie
Jul 25 06:41:41  though honestly im not sure why its a bad thing. using it is essentially the same as using the webos doctor. it does a complete factory install of the phone including the linux underlay
Jul 25 06:42:43  i'd go for it
Jul 25 06:43:36  well, since ive yet to post to the wiki, ill hold off and get better clarification lol
Jul 25 06:45:21  what's the master subsidy lock code?
Jul 25 06:45:29  how do you "enter" it?
Jul 25 06:45:46  heh, I just went through that with Palm, but I didn't have a pen
Jul 25 06:45:50  bzhou * r10490 optware/trunk/make/discount.mk: discount: markdown text to HTML. Initial addition
Jul 25 06:45:50  make a page just dont link it anyplace yet
Jul 25 06:45:52  using the hash codes
Jul 25 06:46:17  there's already a page we had on the old wiki with a bunch of hash codes
Jul 25 06:46:25  and when you enter the code it does what?
Jul 25 06:46:28  i was thinking of adding it to that page
Jul 25 06:47:22  using the ##rtn# at the bottom of the screen there is a reset button, press it and it ask for the code to be able to do a complete factory reset
Jul 25 06:49:48  do it and we'll review it
Jul 25 06:50:15  bzhou * r10491 optware/trunk/Makefile: discount: promoted
Jul 25 06:52:29  ok
Jul 25 06:53:05  yeah, the sprint guy i talked to was awsome, a complete opposite from the tool i talked to earlier
Jul 25 06:53:23  what else did you learn
Jul 25 06:54:38  mmm, not much more than that. over the last few hours i found out that when i got the 1.1 update, it messed with the driver interactions on my computer.
Jul 25 06:55:00  lol ##gps#
Jul 25 06:55:16  and
Jul 25 06:55:18  after i deleted the drivers and the registry and reloaded everything, i was able to get standard root with novaproxy and putty
Jul 25 06:56:12  still couldnt ssh. so i web doc my phone and the activation stuff on my account was all screwed up from the corporate guy.
Jul 25 06:57:43  final lesson, never go to a corporate store, only talk with tech support after midnight, and next time i get an itch to reinstall windows 7, im using the 32 bit version until better support comes out!
Jul 25 06:57:47  so new drivers come with 1.1
Jul 25 06:58:17  i dont think so, i was getting some weird errors on my phone several hours after the update
Jul 25 06:59:02  i am so tempted to do the factory reset with ##786#
Jul 25 06:59:04  i hadnt messed with my phone for over an hour and the screen comes on telling me that the systems update 0 was successfull?  pretty sure thats not standard
Jul 25 06:59:44  well, it accomplishes the exact same thing as the web doc.  i could have used it hours ago when i couldnt get it to connect to the program...
Jul 25 06:59:51  lol
Jul 25 07:00:15  so as a last resort, if someone cant get the next button to appear, there is an alternative!
Jul 25 07:00:41  so maybe should be mentioned on the recovery page as well...
Jul 25 07:01:30  i will go ahead and make the updates to those 2 pages, and call it a night.
Jul 25 07:01:36  PreHero: yeah, put that in the recovery page if it's used for recovery
Jul 25 07:01:56  if its an issue, please pull it
Jul 25 07:02:01  if it's used for some other reason which could be a grey area, just don't mention the other reason :-)
Jul 25 07:02:12  sounds good to me
Jul 25 07:03:20  PreHero: if a sprint tech gave it to you on the phone for recovery, and didn't tell you to keep it quiet, then we can list it for recovery purposes.
Jul 25 07:03:44  we tend to stay away from the whole phone unlocking business - there's a parallel group of folks who concentrate on that.
Jul 25 07:04:29  they used to be in #webos-unlocking, dunno if they're still there or whether they just use mobile-files forum exclusively now
Jul 25 07:04:47  Hey guys, maybe someone can help me out. I can't seem to download the /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install x-webosinternals-termplugin
Jul 25 07:05:36  his code did not work on my phone
Jul 25 07:05:37  It's returning Error 4 during the install of this package. ultimately I'm trying to install the terminal on the pre, I'm rooted in right now
Jul 25 07:05:41  auth failed
Jul 25 07:06:16  james, are you talking about the install instructions on: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jul 25 07:06:36  no
Jul 25 07:07:29  s0urce: is the package listed in ipkg -o /var list ?
Jul 25 07:08:48  no
Jul 25 07:09:01  the only package I see here is: org.webosinternals.terminal
Jul 25 07:09:08  and others, not relevant
Jul 25 07:10:06  x-webosinternals-termplugin
Jul 25 07:10:12  That one is not present
Jul 25 07:10:32  s0urce: double check the > and >> when you created preware.conf
Jul 25 07:11:52  I skipped the part where it said "If you are on the Pre, type: "
Jul 25 07:11:58  "echo "src/gz armv7 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7" >> /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf"
Jul 25 07:12:09  Should I echo that line into preware.conf as well?
Jul 25 07:12:37  the instructions say to do that, yes
Jul 25 07:12:52  Since I'm in the pre via SSH I skipped that. /facepalm
Jul 25 07:13:06 * psykoz grins
Jul 25 07:13:16 * Robi_ double facepalms
Jul 25 07:13:45  if you notice the line above it there is actually a difference, /preware/all and then /preware/armv7, also note the emulator has /preware/i686 etc
Jul 25 07:14:12  Got it
Jul 25 07:14:54  s0urce: you must have skipped the part that says "Do not stray from or vary these instructions. If you don't do it all, in precisely the right order, with zero mistakes, it's not going to work." :-)
Jul 25 07:15:21  it is natural that humans don't read instructions
Jul 25 07:15:22  That conditional statement threw me off
Jul 25 07:15:22  ;)
Jul 25 07:15:27  I read them very well
Jul 25 07:15:33  I took it too literally I suppose
Jul 25 07:15:40  Surely I'm not the only one that made that mistake!
Jul 25 07:15:41  yeah, we're working on a script to replace the instructions
Jul 25 07:15:47  (or maybe I am)
Jul 25 07:16:09  s0urce: don't sweat it :-)
Jul 25 07:16:19  Working great though guys
Jul 25 07:16:32  This will be so useful, what an excelent application
Jul 25 07:16:34  we get the textual instructions down first, then put it in a script once we know the best sequence
Jul 25 07:16:48  even better!
Jul 25 07:18:43  I think JackieRipper has a script just about ready for alpha testing
Jul 25 07:18:52  rwhitby, can you delete users from the optware packages?
Jul 25 07:19:25  james_: yeah, use vi on /etc/passwd :-)
Jul 25 07:19:33  thank you
Jul 25 07:19:54  there's probably an optware package that has userdel or something in it, but I forget which
Jul 25 07:20:08  theres 1300+ packages - hard to keep track of all of them :-)
Jul 25 07:20:10  ~eno
Jul 25 07:20:12  Eno works tirelessly on Optware.  He is the unsung hero keeping it all working.
Jul 25 07:20:31  Robi_: the template's not working; it seems you can't put a parameter in a 
 (or ) tag
Jul 25 07:20:51  rwhitby, unacceptable.
Jul 25 07:21:04  you should be aware of them all :)
Jul 25 07:21:33  james_: grep in Packages.filelist - it's 12MB long
Jul 25 07:21:43  jokin'
Jul 25 07:21:54 * rwhitby bbl
Jul 25 07:22:17  uhh
Jul 25 07:22:54  not even wrapped ?
Jul 25 07:23:35 * Robi_ pops into a pumpkin
Jul 25 07:25:35  Robi_: i could use a div and give it the same styles, but i dunno, that seems wrong
Jul 25 07:48:58  anyone know why SSH doesnt work in terminal?
Jul 25 07:49:48  s0urce@castle:/usr/bin$ ssh
Jul 25 07:49:48  usage: ssh [-1246AaCfgKkMNnqsTtVvXxYy]
Jul 25 07:50:01  Works fine when I'm remotely logged into the pre
Jul 25 07:50:34  on the pre it returns sh: ssh: not found
Jul 25 08:03:12  s0urce: I expect terminal may not run /etc/profile
Jul 25 08:07:42  rwhitby, how do i remove all optware
Jul 25 08:08:29  rm -rf /opt /etc/profile.d/optware /etc/event.d/optware-*
Jul 25 08:08:52  feel free to put that in the wiki :-)
Jul 25 08:09:00  s0urce, /opt/bin/ssh
Jul 25 08:09:06  (for now)
Jul 25 08:10:04  cannot remove '/opt': device or resource busy
Jul 25 08:10:50  james_: initctl stop optware-dropbear
Jul 25 08:11:17  make sure you're not logged in via dropbear when you do that
Jul 25 08:12:08  s0urce: what's "echo $PATH" when on the terminal?
Jul 25 08:13:33  rwhitby, how do i know if i'm logged in via dropbear?
Jul 25 08:13:43  i just did novaterm
Jul 25 08:13:46  same result
Jul 25 08:13:59  after doing rm -rf etc,etc,etc
Jul 25 08:14:38  let me check
Jul 25 08:16:05  path is: /usr/loca/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/bin
Jul 25 08:16:23  sans the typo on local
Jul 25 08:19:22  If my initctl command does not work in remote terminal, do i need to edit profile.d?
Jul 25 08:28:27  Thanks again psykoz! SSH works great
Jul 25 08:32:42  Hiya everyone!
Jul 25 08:32:57  hey guys
Jul 25 08:33:41  What's up everyone?  Total newb here, hah.
Jul 25 08:34:29  hah, thats good
Jul 25 08:34:38  someone without knowledge, willnig to learn
Jul 25 08:34:41  i love to see it :)
Jul 25 08:35:20  Oh, well, thanks, hah.
Jul 25 08:35:38  I'm just poking around in the wiki trying to figure all this stuffs out.  My brain is about to explode. >_>
Jul 25 08:35:46  Hello, whether the full ROM of 1.1.0 is out?
Jul 25 08:38:44  brb
Jul 25 08:42:45  Back!
Jul 25 08:42:46  :_
Jul 25 08:42:48  *:)
Jul 25 08:56:38  So...ummm..what's up?
Jul 25 09:02:19  Talkative bunch!
Jul 25 09:04:34  Leprecub: the US is asleep
Jul 25 09:05:19  Hah, I'm in Kansas.
Jul 25 09:05:24 * Leprecub <-- Night Owl
Jul 25 09:07:00 * destinal is in Colorado
Jul 25 09:08:07  an infant relative staying in our home woke up and woke the household up.  apparently he wants to play, and doesn't care about the hour
Jul 25 09:08:11  :-/
Jul 25 09:08:16  dallas here
Jul 25 09:08:42  destinal: yeah, kids do that :-)
Jul 25 09:09:23  lies, u just wanted to hang out with us
Jul 25 09:09:34  Cleanser: how's it going?
Jul 25 09:09:38  got EVDO?
Jul 25 09:09:43  1x =(
Jul 25 09:09:47  better than nothing
Jul 25 09:10:14  that's about EDGE speeds?  (I'm mostly familiar with GSM)
Jul 25 09:10:14  i will find a way =-p
Jul 25 09:10:20  termplugin 0.1.2 pushed to preware
Jul 25 09:10:21  yeah oof
Jul 25 09:10:44  use "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade ; reboot" to update to the latest version of Terminal
Jul 25 09:11:11  destinal: the symlink works well for an upgrade :-)
Jul 25 09:11:27  ive been meaning to get that
Jul 25 09:13:40  rwhitby: I still show 1.1 in ipkg -o /var list   (after update)
Jul 25 09:13:49 * Leprecub watches with fascination
Jul 25 09:13:51  0.1.1
Jul 25 09:14:51  destinal: for x-webosinternals-termplugin ?
Jul 25 09:15:06  yup, it didn't upgrade either
Jul 25 09:15:08  odd
Jul 25 09:15:30  destinal: yeah, you're right
Jul 25 09:15:45  the ipkg-index step didn't update the Packages file
Jul 25 09:15:52 * rwhitby investigates
Jul 25 09:17:29  Hrmm, I upgraded to 1.1.0 and had to do the webOS doctor to restore. Now, the Pre says I cannot access the Cell Network (BS since I'm able to make emergency calls). Any ideas? I've tried the guide: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation but the flashing process fails.
Jul 25 09:17:54  Yea, no dice on 0.1.2
Jul 25 09:17:58  hopspitfire: were you bypassed in the first place?
Jul 25 09:18:05  before 1.1
Jul 25 09:18:09  hopspitfire: some people have reported in the PreCentral forums having to call Sprint to fix that
Jul 25 09:18:22  Nope, I've been able to use the original activation method before 1.1.0
Jul 25 09:18:35  hopspitfire: yeah, definitely talk to sprint
Jul 25 09:19:20  destinal: I don't want to get a new phone :( That will be my 4th pre
Jul 25 09:19:50  have u tried webos doctor to an old version
Jul 25 09:19:53  then upgrade again?
Jul 25 09:19:56  hopspitfire: they should be able to fix it without that
Jul 25 09:20:18  1.1 seems to be re-writing some data profiles n such..
Jul 25 09:20:25  Cleanser: The webOS version hasn't been updated for 1.1, so I'm using the one from 7/5/09
Jul 25 09:20:29  hopspitfire: it could also be something up with your account
Jul 25 09:20:42  hopspitfire: a friend had his pre listed as a sanyo and couldn't activate
Jul 25 09:21:30  destinal: That's strange since everything was working fine until I restored my system (the update went along just fine)
Jul 25 09:21:51  I wanted to restore just so I could do all the patches again from scratch
Jul 25 09:22:08  still something could have happened between your first activation and your latest
Jul 25 09:22:13  on your acct
Jul 25 09:22:29  I really doubt it's the pre
Jul 25 09:22:46  Yeah, that's true. I'll talk to them. Would they be around now or would I have to wait until tomorrow (2:22am here) ?
Jul 25 09:23:11  don't know their hours offhand
Jul 25 09:23:51  30
Jul 25 09:24:03  -
Jul 25 09:24:20  have u tried *228 and re-program?
Jul 25 09:24:49  Well, right now I tried making a rom using that guide, so I gotta reflash anyway to get back to the menu
Jul 25 09:24:52  thats a shot in the dork
Jul 25 09:24:59  dark even
Jul 25 09:25:05  hahaha
Jul 25 09:25:40  actually nvm sprint doesnt do PRL and programming via *228 ignore what i said
Jul 25 09:26:07  Thanks though :)
Jul 25 09:30:33  destinal: try again now please
Jul 25 09:30:39  use "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade ; reboot" to update to the latest version of Terminal
Jul 25 09:30:53  Worked!
Jul 25 09:31:23  whitby any idea why the "reboot" command doesnt work for me
Jul 25 09:31:34  s0urce: try /sbin/reboot
Jul 25 09:31:41  Yea, that works always
Jul 25 09:31:52  is there something I can do to make just reboot work as well?
Jul 25 09:32:00  s0urce: the path needs to be fixed in terminal
Jul 25 09:32:07  chmod +s?
Jul 25 09:34:17  ?
Jul 25 09:36:59  whitby appinfo.json still states 0.1.1
Jul 25 09:41:05  Definitely updated though, the problems with the @ key are fixed
Jul 25 09:41:31  s0urce: the webOS application didn't change, just the termplugin
Jul 25 09:41:43  Ah, yes just saw that!
Jul 25 09:42:29  destinal: pushed the preware repo rebuild versions fix
Jul 25 09:43:11  cool
Jul 25 09:43:56  will set up the autobuilder later tonight
Jul 25 10:07:58  hello
Jul 25 10:08:14  someone here?
Jul 25 10:15:20  magic8ball now in prewar
Jul 25 10:15:23  prewar
Jul 25 10:15:26  prewar*e*
Jul 25 10:23:59  use "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var install com.orbsix.app.magic8ball" to install it
Jul 25 10:24:18 * rwhitby needs to look into postinst for rescan
Jul 25 10:27:35  rwhiby, im getting an error code 2 on the ipkg -o /var update
Jul 25 10:28:04  $ ipkg -o /var update;
Jul 25 10:28:04  Downloading http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages.gz
Jul 25 10:28:04  Inflating http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/Packages.gz
Jul 25 10:28:04  Downloading http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7/Packages.gz
Jul 25 10:28:04  Inflating http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7/Packages.gz
Jul 25 10:28:04  An error ocurred, return value: 2.
Jul 25 10:28:25  so 8ball doesnt show up in the list
Jul 25 11:01:43  jomaster * r10492 optware/trunk/.cvsignore: .cvsignore: add all missing targets
Jul 25 11:20:09  s0urce: dunno, works fine on the emulator
Jul 25 11:41:34  hey guys since the 1.1.0 update has anyone gotten the error that they have too many cards open when you actually have 0 cards open and try to launch an app?
Jul 25 11:41:35  http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=592
Jul 25 11:45:38  Hey guys, I need a little assistance.
Jul 25 11:46:02  I'm a total newd, but I've searched google, PreCentral, etc.  I've looked everywhere for an answer but can't find it.
Jul 25 11:46:12  *newb, who is NOT newd
Jul 25 11:47:12  When I try to use the PalmEmulator.exe, it doesn't run.  When I tried running some of the .bat files such as palm-generate, they say "PalmSDK variable not set".
Jul 25 11:47:35  I can't find an instance of anyone else getting this error.  I'm sure it's something simple that I've overlooked, but I'm baffled.
Jul 25 11:47:54  So, any suggestions?
Jul 25 11:49:44  What OS?
Jul 25 11:49:51  Windows 7.
Jul 25 11:50:29  I have 7 as well, had some other problems but not that one
Jul 25 11:50:46  I'm not sure what I've done wrong.
Jul 25 11:51:03  Well it's easy to fix
Jul 25 11:51:29  Because in the start menu, the Palm Emulator is launched from the .bat file, which always closes itself with that SDK error.
Jul 25 11:51:30  Control Panel, System, Advanced System Settings
Jul 25 11:52:00  Then go to Environment Variables, then under the user variables box hit New...
Jul 25 11:52:21  Variable name PalmSDK, Variable value the path to where you installed the SDK, such as C:\Palm SDK
Jul 25 11:52:40  After adding that it should start working
Jul 25 11:53:20  I'm sorry, but I can't find "Advanced System Settings".
Jul 25 11:53:38  Baha!
Jul 25 11:53:40  FOund it.
Jul 25 11:53:40  it's in the sidebar, or at least is there for me
Jul 25 11:53:41  Okay.
Jul 25 11:54:55  It's already there, and correct.
Jul 25 11:55:26  That's odd.. Are you running 64 bit?
Jul 25 11:55:36  Nope.
Jul 25 11:55:53  PalmSDK | C:\PROGRAMS\Palm\SDK\
Jul 25 11:55:55  Which is correct.
Jul 25 11:57:08  open command prompt and type in "if defined PalmSDK echo foo"
Jul 25 11:57:13  does it say "foo" after that?
Jul 25 11:57:30  Nope.
Jul 25 11:57:50  it would seem that for some reason the variable isn't being defined in the command prompt
Jul 25 11:58:07  Is there any way I can correct this?
Jul 25 11:58:12  type "set" and see if the variable appears in the list it outputs
Jul 25 11:58:59  Doesn't look like it is. :/
Jul 25 11:59:01  you can fix it manually by typing set PalmSDK="C:\PROGRAMS\Palm\SDK"
Jul 25 11:59:12  but you'll have to run the palm-emulator.bat file from the same command prompt session
Jul 25 11:59:56  oh you did open a new command prompt window after installing the SDK? because changes to environment variables won't propage to ones which were already open
Jul 25 12:00:11  I did.
Jul 25 12:00:16  if you just tried running it by doubleclicking the bat file it should've worked though
Jul 25 12:00:35  Yeah, manually setting the variable in the command prompt fixed it.
Jul 25 12:00:49  You can edit the emulator bat file to include the set command as the first thing in it
Jul 25 12:00:58  I was about to ask!  Hah
Jul 25 12:01:20  but it seems a bit odd that it doesn't show up in set since it should... no clue why though
Jul 25 12:02:35  okay, what do I put in there to define that variable upon startup?
Jul 25 12:02:49  same thing?
Jul 25 12:03:16  Yeah
Jul 25 12:03:38  Thanks so much for the help!
Jul 25 12:03:40 * Leprecub hugs
Jul 25 12:03:41  np
Jul 25 12:15:10  Leprecub: how would you like to write up a wiki page with those hints for windows 7 ?
Jul 25 12:16:10  Sure!  I'll get to work now. :)
Jul 25 12:17:13  Leprecub: I'd say on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux put a note under step 2 of the Procedure, point to your new page, perhaps call the new page SDK_on_Windows_7
Jul 25 12:26:10  rwhitby: got a moment?
Jul 25 12:26:22  depends what for ...
Jul 25 12:27:15  i just created another patch for the repo and added it.  I noticed that whenever i execute these commands my .git/config is altered and I can no longer git push until i modify the config again
Jul 25 12:27:16  git remote rm origin # (if you did a clone, we have to replace the origin)
Jul 25 12:27:16  git remote add origin git@gitorious.org:webos-internals/modifications.git
Jul 25 12:27:58  i added comments to the wiki last week about what to do if you had trouble but what causes it to wipe your config settings for the [branch "master"] section?
Jul 25 12:28:41  jcrawford: the best thing to do is just to clone into a new directory using the push URL
Jul 25 12:35:26  Leprecub: or just point to http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=219 for Windows 7
Jul 25 12:36:37  (although I don't think that thread actually covers the issue you had)
Jul 25 12:36:52  I'm rewriting that post for the Wiki
Jul 25 12:37:26  Oh
Jul 25 12:37:29  No, not that post
Jul 25 12:37:43  The post for getting the installer to work on Windows 7
Jul 25 12:37:55  Yeaaaahhh
Jul 25 12:37:59  the one in the post.
Jul 25 12:38:36  ...maybe it would be fast to just link to his site.  >_>
Jul 25 12:38:43  faster, rather
Jul 25 12:40:48  darnnit forgot to quilt pop -a before the update yesterday lol
Jul 25 12:41:02  hey rwhitby ssh is on my pre, why can the terminal app not take advantage of ssh?
Jul 25 12:41:24  jcrawford: in what way?
Jul 25 12:43:51  I'll have to finish later...my normal phone has performed voodoo magic and I must investigate...
Jul 25 12:48:33  morning
Jul 25 12:49:05  destinal: did you happen to look in the latest webcore patch and see if any more headers are included?
Jul 25 13:09:06  hey for the Gentoo fans out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 25 13:09:08  crossdev -t armv7a-softfloat-linux-gnueabi
Jul 25 13:09:24  ^^^ thats how you make a Pre cross toolchain
Jul 25 13:19:34  softfloat? the 3430 has an fpu
Jul 25 13:19:57  has anyone had a problem playintg music on their pre since 1.1 update?
Jul 25 13:20:02  (from the actual music player)
Jul 25 13:22:25  I'll be testing Pandora for the next few hours, prior to the update it used to lock up my phone after 4-5 songs
Jul 25 13:23:08  Oh the problem I'm having is different
Jul 25 13:23:22  music that was originally sync'd on my pre with itunes in 1.0.4
Jul 25 13:23:29  upgraded to webOS 1.1
Jul 25 13:23:51  now it just plays each song for 1 second (doesn't really play) and hops to the next
Jul 25 13:23:58  so, i can't say for the itunes songs -. I can test it on the way home around 6pm
Jul 25 13:24:16  Oh reallY? i can test that right now...
Jul 25 13:24:19  i wonder if they fix the acc+ bug
Jul 25 13:24:23  gotta check
Jul 25 13:24:40  just tried copying files manually to the Pre via USB, still same issue
Jul 25 13:24:43  en0x, acc+?
Jul 25 13:25:36  ok, no problem playing van Halen right now... I got this music onto here via WinAmp, not itunes
Jul 25 13:26:13  Perhaps specific to iTunes songs then.
Jul 25 13:26:23  Nah I just copied files over via USB
Jul 25 13:26:25  same problem
Jul 25 13:28:55  en0x, did you mean aac+ bug?
Jul 25 13:36:30  wow, actually n o sounds playing on my pre at all
Jul 25 13:36:36  except through pandora app
Jul 25 13:37:44  oh i wonder if this is that typical headphone jack issue
Jul 25 13:41:02  damn, I'm unable to remove the dependency of quilt on perl.
Jul 25 13:42:58  did you write quilt?
Jul 25 13:43:22  oh nevermind
Jul 25 13:43:28  I've actually never heard of that patch management software
Jul 25 13:46:03  used extensively in linux kernel patch management
Jul 25 13:46:14  written by or for andrew morton
Jul 25 13:46:39  <-- stays away from the linux kernel monster
Jul 25 13:46:41  unfortunately, the 'refresh' quilt command depends on perl, and may not work with miniperl or microperl.
Jul 25 13:46:48  <-- bsd slickness preferred
Jul 25 13:49:24  ok, so the quilt monster can't be sliced and diced at the package dependency level.  time to delve into the relevant optware packages and see what can be trimmed ...
Jul 25 13:50:59  rwhitby * r10493 optware/trunk/platforms/toolchain-pre-emulator.mk: pre-emulator: Make sure the directories are created before building the toolchain
Jul 25 13:51:33  a job for another day.
Jul 25 13:51:37 * rwhitby bbt
Jul 25 13:51:57  finally made it, hello
Jul 25 13:52:21  newbie here, ran into bootstrap.sh error
Jul 25 13:52:37  posted to pastebin as "walter"
Jul 25 13:53:19  2009-07-25T13:52:58.268402Z [681] castle user.notice audiod: _pulseConnectSocket: connect error 'Connection refused' on fd (12)
Jul 25 13:53:22  getting this in messages a lot
Jul 25 13:54:41  apparently I borked my phone, figured out why pulseaudio isn't starting
Jul 25 13:55:03  wwwalter: paste the url here please
Jul 25 13:55:29  http://webos.pastebin.com/m7d35c9df
Jul 25 13:57:09  wwwalter: you need to create a second virtual disk first - which wiki page are you following?
Jul 25 13:58:23  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Novcom_on_Windows
Jul 25 13:58:24  wwwalter: assuming you're following http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps, note the line that says "If you're attempting to install these packages to your emulator, you must first add sufficient space by enabling a virtual disk." and follow the link.
Jul 25 13:59:03  gah.  I asked people to remove the bootstrap from the end of that page.
Jul 25 13:59:21  lol, k, I'll follow the new thread.
Jul 25 14:01:01  wwwalter: ok, I removed the wrong stuff from that page.
Jul 25 14:02:30  wwwalter: "Your prompt will change to root@castle:/# ←[J" - do those last three characters actually show on the screen, or is that a wiki typo?
Jul 25 14:03:38 * rwhitby bbt, really this time.
Jul 25 14:17:40  they actually show.
Jul 25 14:17:42  rwhitby: the pre toolchain uses softfloat right?
Jul 25 14:20:10  anyone having trouble signing into your palm profile after webos doctor?
Jul 25 14:22:22  help_: make sure you have a data connection (and sometimes it takes a second), that or restart the device and try again.
Jul 25 14:22:36  i have literally been at it for hours
Jul 25 14:22:46  even drove around
Jul 25 14:22:50  tried all kinds of areas
Jul 25 14:23:39  btw data connection = EV?
Jul 25 14:24:06  if so, i have NOT had any EV or 1x
Jul 25 14:24:17  even with full signal
Jul 25 14:29:43  is the terminal application open source or closed?
Jul 25 14:30:19  open source
Jul 25 14:30:43  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal#License
Jul 25 14:31:42  who do i need to contact to get the source to play around with?
Jul 25 14:32:28  one moment
Jul 25 14:36:43  http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications it's hosted there
Jul 25 14:37:10  and it's in org.webosinternals.terminal and termplugin dirs
Jul 25 14:37:22  I think
Jul 25 14:37:27  but it's in that git repo
Jul 25 14:39:26  ok thanks alot for the link summantusmentis. gonna look for it now on the site.
Jul 25 14:40:25  doesnt seem like it was put up on the site yet
Jul 25 14:40:38  either that or i'm blind lol
Jul 25 14:42:22  PreGame, did you get your phone returned?
Jul 25 14:44:09  darth, have you heard of any troubles with signing into the palm profile after the webos doc?
Jul 25 14:44:32  help_, yes...
Jul 25 14:44:40  if you tap on Make a Call
Jul 25 14:44:49  delete out the 911.
Jul 25 14:44:57  ##786#
Jul 25 14:45:19  down at the bottom, reset button should work...
Jul 25 14:45:29  helps reset the network settings including EVDO
Jul 25 14:45:36  i tried that, it says to enter the msl
Jul 25 14:45:40  which i don't know
Jul 25 14:46:01  ah, call sprint, tell them you reset your phone and it's asking for the MSL, they hand it right over.
Jul 25 14:46:03  DarthPooh:  A password is required to reset the phone.
Jul 25 14:46:23  DarthPooh i am not the owner of the account, will they still give me the msl?
Jul 25 14:46:27  thatdude, yup, sprint gives it over with no hassle
Jul 25 14:46:39  DarthPooh:  Yep.
Jul 25 14:46:47  help_, that's a different issue, if you know the account information and password, you should be able to get it from them
Jul 25 14:47:08  help_, if not, have the account owner call for you.
Jul 25 14:47:31  thanks for help DarthPooh
Jul 25 14:47:39  help_, yup.
Jul 25 14:48:16  my Pre is so much more gooder with BB sounds :)
Jul 25 14:48:20  ok I found the source tree. thanks again +summatusmentis
Jul 25 14:48:28  Binary_Tech: sure thing
Jul 25 14:49:16  hey summatusmentis, has anyone tested quilt patches on 1.1.0?
Jul 25 14:49:29  DarthPooh: that I do not know, I don't have a Pre
Jul 25 14:50:01  summatusmentis, wasn't sure if you saw talk of it.
Jul 25 14:50:20  not that I've seen
Jul 25 14:50:21  sorry
Jul 25 14:51:30  no big deal, thanks
Jul 25 14:52:02  found my answer
Jul 25 14:52:04  NOTE: 7/25/2009 Doesn't seem to work with 1.1 update (?) Worked great for months, update, now doesn't. Other patches work ok after update.
Jul 25 14:52:18  that is the download from browser patch
Jul 25 14:52:26  which is hte one I was interesed in
Jul 25 14:52:29  interested too
Jul 25 14:52:51  I am debating in returning my Pre due to two dead pixel on my screen.  What do you advice?
Jul 25 14:53:19  when did you notice the pixels? from the beginning?
Jul 25 14:53:31  or just recently...
Jul 25 14:53:48  DarthPooh:  Just recently.  Room was dark and I was booting my phone.
Jul 25 14:54:15  DarthPooh:  When I notice two dead pixel.  Now that I know where they located on my screen it annoys me.
Jul 25 14:54:16  ive heard that people who had zero dead pixels from day one start developing bad ones over time
Jul 25 14:54:38  where one person woke up one day who had 3, ended up having about 11
Jul 25 14:55:01  that sucks, that's why I want to exchange it.
Jul 25 14:55:03  could have been stuck pixels, and the person just didnt know the difference
Jul 25 14:55:26  http://www.ebaspace.com/iphone-app/#_home
Jul 25 14:55:29  try that from the phone
Jul 25 14:55:37  The one that is noticeable is located in the status bar
Jul 25 14:56:06  ok... thats a stuck pixel... cause the status bar is black
Jul 25 14:56:17  and dead pixels are black.
Jul 25 14:56:25  is it white or some other color?
Jul 25 14:56:41  DarthPooh:  Other color, varies when you move the phone side to side
Jul 25 14:57:09  yeah, probably stuck pixel
Jul 25 14:57:11  DarthPooh: i don't have a bad pixel and i got mine on the release day
Jul 25 14:57:11  that fix might work
Jul 25 14:57:25  DarthPooh:  I will keep you posted, going to visit that site now.
Jul 25 14:57:28  en0x, uh... great!
Jul 25 14:57:38  and no oreo twist
Jul 25 14:57:44  only battery issue i had and thats all
Jul 25 14:57:47  but its fixed :)
Jul 25 14:57:55  yeah, the majority of users don't have issues actually
Jul 25 14:57:55  DarthPooh:  Btw, thanks for your help in the forum the other day.
Jul 25 14:58:05  thatdude, what did i do?
Jul 25 14:58:30  en0x, the battery issue is because of the day 1 batteries that were shipped are different from the current Pre batteries.
Jul 25 14:58:37  DarthPooh:  I am thatdude from PreCentral.
Jul 25 14:58:46  DarthPooh:  ...forums
Jul 25 14:59:00  thatdude, ever since Dieter (master) has me working hard, I don't remember everything I've done :)
Jul 25 14:59:13  lol
Jul 25 15:00:22  he's a bastard that one :) but his boyish good looks have me drawn in.
Jul 25 15:00:43  he's prob not even paying attention to channel traffic right now either.
Jul 25 15:01:24  I am shocked that no one has posted the difference between release day batteries and current batteries.
Jul 25 15:02:50  Does Pre supports animated gif?  I think not.
Jul 25 15:03:39  That stuck pixel is located on my status bar which that web app is just doing all that in my main screen.
Jul 25 15:04:39  i just realized down stairs that would be a problem
Jul 25 15:04:49  doh
Jul 25 15:04:57  thatdude, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liMySLZkF5o
Jul 25 15:05:14  some users claim it works, but i haven't tried it
Jul 25 15:05:17  sweet help_
Jul 25 15:05:34  Nice help_
Jul 25 15:05:43  i have also read that it may take a few tries
Jul 25 15:07:21  help_ want a beer?
Jul 25 15:11:10  That stuck pixel is bright white
Jul 25 15:11:31  It is a variation of stuck pixel, correct?
Jul 25 15:15:19  DarthPooh: what? i have 3 pre batteries, 1 is day 1, 2 are from 2 weeks ago
Jul 25 15:15:25  they look the exact same?
Jul 25 15:17:09  meshuga, some day one devices came with batteries that are being used today
Jul 25 15:17:20  did you ever have the slider shut off problem?
Jul 25 15:18:32  yes, i just started getting that
Jul 25 15:18:33  look, closely at the little tabs on the bottom of them, the "bad" day one batteries are solid stubs, the newer ones are a bit longer and have an indentation in them
Jul 25 15:18:39  i didnt have it until like last week
Jul 25 15:19:01  DarthPooh: damn. i think all mine are solid stubs
Jul 25 15:19:08  the short ones
Jul 25 15:19:08  i am on vacation but when i get home i will inspect
Jul 25 15:19:23  Hey all.
Jul 25 15:19:38  which allow the battery to "slide" and lose contact with power if the slider is shut hard enough
Jul 25 15:19:45  How do I remove a patch from (next steps on wiki) my repository? (very new to this stuff)
Jul 25 15:20:21  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches
Jul 25 15:21:21  meshuga, the temp fix is a piece of paper...
Jul 25 15:21:33  DarthPooh, thanks for help
Jul 25 15:21:37  phone works again
Jul 25 15:21:38  Darth: I've read the whole page many times and I undestand the majority of it... by I have a few patches in my directory (not pushed to my pre) that I don't want pushed to my pre ... so i need to remove them from my repository first.
Jul 25 15:21:44  had no data signal
Jul 25 15:21:59  help_ how'd you get the mls?
Jul 25 15:22:03  DarthPooh: haha, ya, i saw the 1.1.0 update warning :P
Jul 25 15:22:07  just called
Jul 25 15:22:10  i wonder if sprint/palm will give me new batteries
Jul 25 15:22:15  they needed the pin # and/or password
Jul 25 15:23:23  so you are saying you imported quilts you didnt want?
Jul 25 15:24:03  Yes, I imported a quilt a few days ago, that now I decided I do not want.
Jul 25 15:24:40  meshuga they should...
Jul 25 15:24:51  ust show them the difference in your battery, should be a convincing argument
Jul 25 15:25:18  Darth: yes I imported a quilt a few days ago, that I no longer want...
Jul 25 15:25:20  help_ glad your up and running again
Jul 25 15:25:28  me too
Jul 25 15:25:35  installing optware again
Jul 25 15:25:44  mljones8, hmmmm, wonder if EXPORT command would work
Jul 25 15:26:53  I was thinking i'd just wipe the directory and re-install the patches I do want, but I was also thinking there might be a better way
Jul 25 15:28:01  quilt pop *specific patch directory
Jul 25 15:28:14  pop -a i believe
Jul 25 15:28:16  instead of quilt pop -a #which stands for all
Jul 25 15:28:22  pop -a filename.patch
Jul 25 15:28:34  you don't have to use all the patches
Jul 25 15:28:40  that much i have figured out :)
Jul 25 15:28:50  yeah not all of them are imported
Jul 25 15:28:59  Oh I see.
Jul 25 15:29:03  I have yet to run the quilt on my new Pre
Jul 25 15:29:28  what happened to your old pre?
Jul 25 15:29:29  what sucks is I can't use my favrorite one... downloading in the browser is borked
Jul 25 15:29:44  help_ unlike you, I could not restore with the doctor
Jul 25 15:30:02  help_ 1.1.0 killed my phone and the doctor would get to 84% and fail
Jul 25 15:30:15  i got lucky that i still had a pc
Jul 25 15:30:22  there is no webos doc for linux
Jul 25 15:30:27  I tried on my pc, mac, and linux box
Jul 25 15:30:32  unless i have really missed something
Jul 25 15:30:41  linux running vb
Jul 25 15:30:50  lol
Jul 25 15:30:58  DarthPooh: thx dude
Jul 25 15:31:02  ok that's good to know
Jul 25 15:31:09  meshuga, what for?
Jul 25 15:31:16  for the battery info
Jul 25 15:31:26  oh, np... I was kind of shocked myself really
Jul 25 15:31:43  i was wondering wtf was up with the shutting off thing
Jul 25 15:31:46  now i know!
Jul 25 15:32:03  sprint gave me 2 extra batteries cuz it took them 3 trips and 6 hours to swap out my phone once
Jul 25 15:32:11  hopefully one of them are diff
Jul 25 15:32:17  if not, i will make them give me more :D
Jul 25 15:32:18  happened on my original device... never on my 2nd and 3rd
Jul 25 15:32:44  lol... ask to swap out the other two batteries if they look different, I bet the shut off only happens with the faulty battery too
Jul 25 15:33:09  my phone never shut off from the keyboard
Jul 25 15:33:25  but my friend's does
Jul 25 15:33:33  his slider is also loose
Jul 25 15:33:49  i don't know anyone else who owns a pre
Jul 25 15:33:54  I had a bit of the oreo going, nothing major
Jul 25 15:34:23  this orea concept is so foreign to me because my pre is really nice
Jul 25 15:35:18  lol
Jul 25 15:37:41  This stuck pixel wont go away.
Jul 25 15:37:50  balls
Jul 25 15:37:59  thatdude: did you make an app to flash the screen a  ton lol?
Jul 25 15:38:49  Templarian: No, I did help_ advice in using youtube.
Jul 25 15:39:38  oh lol.
Jul 25 15:40:10  does that youtube video hit the pixel?
Jul 25 15:40:18  Alright I'm all cleaned up with my patches now... cheers and thanks
Jul 25 15:40:29  good stuff
Jul 25 15:40:48  : It's full screen, Yes.
Jul 25 15:41:10  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liMySLZkF5o
Jul 25 15:41:13  this one looks quicker
Jul 25 15:41:43  the problem is you are supposed to rub the screen at that spot to help warm it up
Jul 25 15:41:49  i dont know if you are doing that...
Jul 25 15:41:56  : The quicker the better?
Jul 25 15:41:58  and it can take a few tries
Jul 25 15:42:14  supposedly your hitting it harder it loosen it up
Jul 25 15:42:31  : I was not rubbing the screen.
Jul 25 15:43:05  i dont know if it'll work, but its worth a shot yano?  rub at the area...
Jul 25 15:43:25  i dont know how far down the lcd is... your only touching the digitizer
Jul 25 15:43:58  a buddy of mine and I are going to open one up tomororw
Jul 25 15:44:00  tomorrow too
Jul 25 15:45:34  : Have fun with that.
Jul 25 15:45:44  it always is
Jul 25 15:45:47  what am i doing wrong... i installed the optware but i cannot ssh from the terminal
Jul 25 15:46:04  are your ssh settings correct?
Jul 25 15:46:25  user@ipnumber -p 222
Jul 25 15:46:56  hmmm
Jul 25 15:47:00  works for me
Jul 25 15:47:17  but truthfully... I am a cable guy anyways :)
Jul 25 15:47:24  don't have to do all that sudo shit :)
Jul 25 15:47:32  uh oh
Jul 25 15:47:37  looking at my device info
Jul 25 15:47:41  i have webos 1.0.4
Jul 25 15:47:47  cross fingers
Jul 25 15:48:28  Rick__: document.write is not a Microsoft thing, that was in Netscape and is considered dom level 0 now
Jul 25 15:51:00  DarthPooh: (I think it was you) what I meant by wrapper was the Terminal js code, if you want a special purpose wrapper (like an ipkg installer) you need to write it
Jul 25 15:51:35  destinal: couple questions, how complete is vt100 and is there javascript api to change the background (pty) process?
Jul 25 15:52:24  or could .execute('bash'); or whatever be used instead of assuming, of course that could be a security issue also so we might need to think carefully about this
Jul 25 15:52:38  tmzt, hmmm, I don't think I asked about a wrapper.  Maybe a Gui, but that was last night
Jul 25 15:52:52  yeah
Jul 25 15:53:14  I think I fell asleep before I could answer you
Jul 25 15:54:26  lol
Jul 25 15:55:03  ok ssh works nice
Jul 25 15:57:42  the stuck pixels on pres don't go away
Jul 25 15:57:54  I don't care what color flashing app you run
Jul 25 15:57:54  heh
Jul 25 15:58:02  shitty screen
Jul 25 16:02:32  sssssssssssssup
Jul 25 16:08:54  jomaster * r10494 optware/trunk/platforms/toolchain-fsg3v4.mk: toolchain-fgs3v4: automatic installing
Jul 25 16:13:32  found it. http://theesylum.com/2008/02/29/where-to-find-news-on-universal-applets/
Jul 25 16:15:46  Hey guys
Jul 25 16:16:20  It was the damn Ev bug
Jul 25 16:16:44  yep
Jul 25 16:16:48  i was about to ask you
Jul 25 16:17:04  did you call sprint and get the msl#?
Jul 25 16:17:14  After using WebOS Doc i was unable to sign into Palm Profile
Jul 25 16:17:21  yep
Jul 25 16:17:31  I had to reset the device twice to get Ev then bingo
Jul 25 16:17:47  i had to call sprint and get the code to reset mine
Jul 25 16:17:54  I am all updated to 1.1.0 with no insane battery drain
Jul 25 16:17:56  restarting it was not enough to get the ev signal again
Jul 25 16:18:16  Phew...saved a trip to the sprint n00b store
Jul 25 16:18:19  lol
Jul 25 16:19:43  I'm so happy they fixed the symbol bug
Jul 25 16:20:46  symbol bug?
Jul 25 16:21:20  symbol key did not work correctly
Jul 25 16:21:24  you could not add symbols to a webpage
Jul 25 16:21:49  now all we need is full copy & paste
Jul 25 16:23:38  nice
Jul 25 16:23:59  any of you guys ever add a wallpaper and then not be able to see it in the wallpaper album?
Jul 25 16:24:02  that keeps happening to me
Jul 25 16:24:07  it's kinda intermittent
Jul 25 16:24:16  no
Jul 25 16:24:18  well, not really
Jul 25 16:24:23  you sure the filetype is .jpg and not something like .png?
Jul 25 16:24:29  it's only since i've tried adding after 1.1.0
Jul 25 16:24:33  yes, jpeg
Jul 25 16:24:37  320x480
Jul 25 16:25:12  haven't noticed
Jul 25 16:25:47  it's driving me crazy
Jul 25 16:25:53  i can't add any new bloody wallpaper
Jul 25 16:26:12  i still have all my previous wallpprs
Jul 25 16:26:37  maybe it will display a maximum of x thumbnails in the wallpaper chooser
Jul 25 16:27:26  i read somewhere that when you exceed x # of apps the newly installed apps do not show up in the launcher, but have to be opened with the global search
Jul 25 16:45:32  so the battery drain issue is still present
Jul 25 16:45:58  and the phone is hot
Jul 25 16:49:10  help_  that's true, but the solutionn is to enable the add pages function to the launcher and put in more pages.
Jul 25 16:49:54  gordian I though wallpapers HAD to be png -- but I guess I'm wrong
Jul 25 16:51:00  all the ones i've used, even the default wallpapers, are jpg
Jul 25 16:51:20  ok
Jul 25 16:51:23  So I was wrong
Jul 25 16:51:34  nah
Jul 25 16:51:38  just misinformed ;)
Jul 25 17:11:29  and off to the sprint n00bstore i go
Jul 25 17:11:31  bye all
Jul 25 18:07:36  howdy everybody
Jul 25 18:09:47  good day!
Jul 25 18:11:25  DieterBohn: hi!
Jul 25 18:11:43  have a quick question -- is there a fairly easy way to look inside a .ipk file to grab the icon?
Jul 25 18:11:47  what is the other directory besides "/usr/palm/applications" that apps are installed to?
Jul 25 18:12:08  Mr Bhon!
Jul 25 18:12:20  Bohn* sorry
Jul 25 18:12:27  yeah, an ipk is a zip and then ar i thought ..
Jul 25 18:12:41  DieterBohn: it's a couple of tar.gz's wrapped in an ar file
Jul 25 18:15:58  mkdir pandora; cd pandora; ar x ../com.palm.pandora_0.9.11_all_signed.ipk; tar xvzf data.tar.gz; grep icon usr/palm/applications/com.palm.pandora/appinfo.json
Jul 25 18:16:05  	"icon": "icon.png",
Jul 25 18:16:14  aha - got it!  Will have to see if I can use some mac tools to do this a little faster -- file juicer + unpack + unpack is a long process.  :)  Thanks destinal!
Jul 25 18:17:21  $ file usr/palm/applications/com.palm.pandora/icon.png
Jul 25 18:17:21  usr/palm/applications/com.palm.pandora/icon.png: PNG image, 64 x 64, 8-bit/color RGBA, non-interlaced
Jul 25 18:17:35  but you'll always need the appinfo.json to know the proper filename
Jul 25 18:20:56  DieterBohn: should be able to do it with a good shell script on the mac.  OSX = UNIX (yay) !
Jul 25 18:21:55  @destinal - appreciate the help, but definitely will take me more time to figure out how to do shell scripts.  I think I've got enough to work with now.  Cheers!
Jul 25 18:22:08  DieterBohn: cool!
Jul 25 18:22:22  is the app  catalog down?
Jul 25 18:22:29  i can't access it for half a day already
Jul 25 18:23:18  DieterBohn: thanks for the front page mention on Terminal, we hope people like it (though it's got a ways to go and even this morning we released a new ver that fixes a few of the keyboard issues)
Jul 25 18:23:52  destinal: can you type an underscore now?
Jul 25 18:24:32  WillJitsu: I think I fixed that but it was 2AM, let me check :)
Jul 25 18:25:26  I know I got @ and comma and |
Jul 25 18:26:47  destinal: yeah I think I was trying to install something from the precentral forums today and I couldn't do "spe_attachment" in the URL
Jul 25 18:31:59  btw, guys, check the homebrew forums.  there's now an editable text field on every attachment and when you tap it on the pre it autoselects the entire field for copying - works on both m.forums and regular.
Jul 25 18:32:24  DieterBohn: nice
Jul 25 18:32:38  hey everyone I need some help on an app
Jul 25 18:33:00  does anyone know how to enaple the help link on the drop down menu
Jul 25 18:33:03  DieterBohn: but you still can't ipkg -o /var install    from there, right, since you need to be logged in to download?
Jul 25 18:33:20  nope, you just need to be logged in to see the url
Jul 25 18:33:35  the url is open to the internets (though obviously we'd prefer it not get spread around too much ;) )
Jul 25 18:33:59  I just installed several apps using those links and the "ipkg -o /var install " method. works great!
Jul 25 18:34:35  WillJitsu: great.  now we just need paste inside terminal!  :)
Jul 25 18:34:42  does anyone know how to enable the "help" clickable on the dropdown for homebrew?
Jul 25 18:34:45  destinal: I know! :)
Jul 25 18:35:06  destinal: hey what's the easiest way to update the terminal app as you make bug fixes and release new versions?
Jul 25 18:36:12  WillJitsu: ipkg -o /var update
Jul 25 18:36:13  WillJitsu: use "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade ; reboot"
Jul 25 18:36:16  WillJitsu: ipkg -o /var upgrade
Jul 25 18:36:16  ?
Jul 25 18:36:17  :>
Jul 25 18:36:54  I noticed some of the apps I have installed list older versions on that feed. will it downgrade those apps if I use the "upgrade" command?
Jul 25 18:37:24  nah
Jul 25 18:39:15  Also you only need the reboot if you're updating loaded binary software (like libterminal)
Jul 25 18:39:20  s/libterminal/libterm/
Jul 25 18:39:20  destinal meant: Also you only need the reboot if you're updating loaded binary software (like libterm)
Jul 25 18:39:44  why? does it cache things like that even if no cards are using it?
Jul 25 18:40:21  tmzt: the Browser appears to load all plugins on first start and doesn't unload them
Jul 25 18:40:31  oh
Jul 25 18:40:42  has anyone here created a hombrew app?
Jul 25 18:40:44  even with luna restart? (not luna-send)
Jul 25 18:41:19  you can restart luna instead but that takes almost as long (since Luna is really what makes the boot process slow)
Jul 25 18:43:20  we figured "reboot" was easier for most users
Jul 25 18:43:59  how do you take a screenshot again?
Jul 25 18:44:05 * joesmith needs to find a hombrewer
Jul 25 18:44:45  joesmith: heh, there are some homebrewers of beer and developers of pre apps, both here. :)
Jul 25 18:45:44  orange+sym+p
Jul 25 18:46:11  WillJitsu: the comma and underscore key is still broken -- we'll get that fixed today though -- it's kind of important!
Jul 25 18:46:36  well underscore works but commas are broken still
Jul 25 18:46:42  destinal: you guys rule
Jul 25 18:46:43  in 0.1.2
Jul 25 18:46:51  dest, are you talking about the terminal app?
Jul 25 18:47:02  tlz: yes
Jul 25 18:47:24  my underscore doesnt work ! :'(
Jul 25 18:47:34  tlz: are you running 0.1.2?
Jul 25 18:47:44  destinal: okay, I just don't want people saying things like you have to reboot the pre everytime you install an application
Jul 25 18:48:07  destinal: doesn't compare well with iPhone for instance
Jul 25 18:48:22  1.1
Jul 25 18:48:26  it would be nice is Palm would support USR1 or something to reload plugins
Jul 25 18:48:27  tmzt: no, and if we can find a better way to force unload from the browser we will, it just hasn't been high on the list of priorities.  and yeah, plugin based apps only
Jul 25 18:48:28  guess i sh ould go update
Jul 25 18:48:43  tlz: yeah,  "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade ; reboot"
Jul 25 18:49:08  tmzt: and then only if the back end browserplugin changes, for mojo, no
Jul 25 18:49:10  ipkg -o /var ? nice, so no more ipkg-opt?
Jul 25 18:49:23 * joesmith is really confused, How do I "enable" the "help button" on the drop down menu, I stage-assistant.js telling help to go to a .js and its html but it wont work?
Jul 25 18:49:36  tmzt: well ipkg-opt is still with us for optware, which is really more a linux package distro
Jul 25 18:50:05  so what is this?
Jul 25 18:50:07  optware doesn't contain pre apps though, so we've got the preware feed
Jul 25 18:50:12  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jul 25 18:50:30  ahhh
Jul 25 18:50:33  thx sir
Jul 25 18:50:37  rebooting as we speak
Jul 25 18:51:12  maybe we can find a way to unload plugins and then we won't need the reboot
Jul 25 18:51:46  also mrvc added a bunch of support for the linux terminal type last night so you don't need to set your TERM variable to vt100 any more :)
Jul 25 18:52:11  you guys are nuts
Jul 25 18:52:14  i love it
Jul 25 18:52:14  colors? :)
Jul 25 18:52:44  tmzt: I didn't ask or read his commit in detail, but that should definitely be on the list if it's not there already
Jul 25 18:58:53  bbiab
Jul 25 19:04:37  i love the translate app
Jul 25 19:06:02  dudes, how do i update the webos version my emu is running?
Jul 25 19:08:23  gordian: you can't, you basically just install the latest SDK and it comes with an emulator running the latest
Jul 25 19:08:46  has there been an updated SDK since 1.1.0 rls?
Jul 25 19:08:54  the SDK came with 1.1
Jul 25 19:08:59  it beat the pre by a bit
Jul 25 19:09:05  ahh ok
Jul 25 19:09:22  wasnt sure if the SDK ver # corresponded with the webOS ver # or not
Jul 25 19:09:36  must have been waiting for sprint to finish the NFL app to release it for the OTA update
Jul 25 19:10:01  bpadalino: lol, yeah, NFL is serious business
Jul 25 19:10:07  :)
Jul 25 19:12:01  lunch & bbl
Jul 25 19:17:41  i BELIEVE THE DEV-MODE-ICON patch is false
Jul 25 19:17:54  Soory, all caps were on didnt notice lol
Jul 25 19:22:52  2 patches seem not to work
Jul 25 19:22:55  http://webos.pastebin.com/m2c9ec7af
Jul 25 19:28:16  destinal: hey what's the latest version of Terminal?
Jul 25 19:31:20  1.2
Jul 25 19:31:23  0.1.2
Jul 25 19:32:38  hmm I ran "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade ; reboot" and I'm still at v0.1.1
Jul 25 19:35:30  hmmm
Jul 25 19:35:32  does anyone know how to add an "about" button on the dropdown menu?
Jul 25 19:36:11  good call on that one..
Jul 25 19:36:22  i ran that earlier, thinking i updated mine, and im still sitting at 1.1 lol
Jul 25 19:36:26  heh
Jul 25 19:37:40  oh dessstinalllll ;)
Jul 25 19:37:49  Yeah its annoying. ok be back in 30 - 50 mins. check the paste bin. When you refresh the dev icon it says nothings in their.
Jul 25 19:38:22  http://webos.pastebin.com/m2c9ec7af
Jul 25 19:43:50  joesmith: i think that question should go in #webos
Jul 25 20:01:28  is the rough cuts book free?
Jul 25 20:02:22  no
Jul 25 20:02:26  but it's less than $20
Jul 25 20:02:30  k
Jul 25 20:02:49  they have like 5 chapter online though i think
Jul 25 20:04:31  ok is the rough cuts book useful?
Jul 25 20:06:02  are most programming books useful?
Jul 25 20:06:42  I dont know thats why I am asking?
Jul 25 20:09:58  I am 16, and dont like buying things unless they are useful, and I was wondering if the information contained in the book was already availible via palms docs/ pre central forums/ weboshelp.net
Jul 25 20:16:05  im betting most people here have nto bought it
Jul 25 20:16:09  maybe you should ask in #webos
Jul 25 20:16:28  its dead in there
Jul 25 20:17:53  so apparently the pre email app does not like html emails?
Jul 25 20:19:11  no?...
Jul 25 20:19:39  well I received an html email and all I see are html tags
Jul 25 20:23:43  afternoon
Jul 25 20:23:58  afternoon raeb
Jul 25 20:26:47  ok I saw the latest pre ad from palm and all I can say that is some creepy sh!t
Jul 25 20:27:10  yep
Jul 25 20:27:30  i think that might be the point
Jul 25 20:28:11  to scare you into buying it?
Jul 25 20:28:39  joesmith: if you listen to the precentral pod cast it's funny as hell when they talk about them.
Jul 25 20:28:48  "palmcast"*
Jul 25 20:29:33  I know I LOld, thats why I googled it.
Jul 25 20:30:16  palmcast hehe
Jul 25 20:30:31  PreGame: Good work, is it suppsed to restart or just refresh allplicationManager after an install?
Jul 25 20:30:43  If I wanted to install homebrew through wifi (b/c i'm too lazy tu plug my Pre into my computer), "ipkg-opt install" will work, right?
Jul 25 20:31:25  ipkg-opt contains optware, not necessarily classified as homebrew
Jul 25 20:31:54  oh, what would be the command to use then?
Jul 25 20:31:58  if you can ssh to your pre over wifi
Jul 25 20:32:03  yea
Jul 25 20:32:09  then you can wget http://somewhere.com/somepackage.ipk
Jul 25 20:32:38  or you can add teh preware package feed to your ipkg sources list
Jul 25 20:33:07  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OPS:webOS-ware
Jul 25 20:33:46  "a group of women aged 45 to 82 who had not previously used a Pre. "
Jul 25 20:33:49  raeb: that's a work in progress.
Jul 25 20:33:49  what is the command to add it?
Jul 25 20:33:55  oh
Jul 25 20:33:59  geez, geriatrics with palms
Jul 25 20:34:17  raeb: It's the OPS thinking of stuff.
Jul 25 20:34:21  oic
Jul 25 20:34:27  still vapor, you're saying
Jul 25 20:34:37  technically.
Jul 25 20:34:42  well then
Jul 25 20:35:06  well, I used "wget" and I have the ipk on my PRe but now what's the command to install?
Jul 25 20:35:23  just "install"?
Jul 25 20:35:24  raeb: also it's a good user base, we are trying to get OSS apps to "everyone" in the easiest way possible.
Jul 25 20:35:51  user base = number of users using your product
Jul 25 20:35:55  or interested in
Jul 25 20:35:58  rite?
Jul 25 20:36:16  "always think of your user base!"
Jul 25 20:36:24  No, that page is for UI design.
Jul 25 20:36:38  yeah i can tell thats what the page is for
Jul 25 20:36:41  And making the process easy to the user base (everyone).
Jul 25 20:36:48  how about /usr/bin ipkg -o /var install URLHERE
Jul 25 20:36:59  im just tyin to figure out Templarian: raeb: also it's a good user base
Jul 25 20:37:19  Oh the "women aged 45 to 82"
Jul 25 20:37:24  lol yeah
Jul 25 20:37:28  grandma with a pre
Jul 25 20:37:41  Decimation: thank you
Jul 25 20:37:43  And not as tech savy (they don't know the phone inside and out)
Jul 25 20:38:07  never woulda guessed that
Jul 25 20:38:14  HebrewzHammer: no problem :)
Jul 25 20:38:41  raeb: if you're in any UI 101 class it's basically out of the book what rick did.
Jul 25 20:39:38 * Templarian goes back to writing this addon.
Jul 25 20:40:10 * raeb is neilson norman usability certified
Jul 25 20:40:34  in web design
Jul 25 20:40:51  It's all the same thing lol.
Jul 25 20:40:54  it really is
Jul 25 20:40:58  and most of it is common sense
Jul 25 20:41:22  just gotta make sure you keep "good ideas" out of the way unless they really are good
Jul 25 20:41:27  Actually most of it isn't...
Jul 25 20:41:28  cuz they tend to pile up making your ui bad
Jul 25 20:41:38  well for me it is
Jul 25 20:41:42  maybe not for you
Jul 25 20:42:07  I meant for others. My job is making admin internal software.
Jul 25 20:42:54  sux
Jul 25 20:43:01  internal software dev that is
Jul 25 20:43:12  business always driving your needs
Jul 25 20:43:30  often they care about functionality, nothing else
Jul 25 20:43:48  then again, public facing development is no joy either, marketing breathing down ur back
Jul 25 20:44:38  Public facing is far worse (I can release software with small bugs and recieve an email with a description instead of angry management)
Jul 25 20:44:48  rofl true
Jul 25 20:45:06  smaller user base ;)
Jul 25 20:49:07  Can someone check if the add/del launcher pages patch is disabled in update 1.1?
Jul 25 20:49:18  I did it still works
Jul 25 20:49:42  did 1.1 break anything?
Jul 25 20:49:43  You have to reapply after upgrading but it still works
Jul 25 20:49:53  Hmm. Will not work for me. What about the dev mode icon, and the browser download patch?
Jul 25 20:50:00  devmode still exists
Jul 25 20:50:06  er devmode icon
Jul 25 20:50:09  I've ran the code and nothing. look-
Jul 25 20:50:52  http://webos.pastebin.com/d1110fb2
Jul 25 20:51:13  When i refresh devmode icon, it says nothing is there
Jul 25 20:51:40  imop, you have to reapply patches.
Jul 25 20:51:57  most everything still "works" you just have to redo it
Jul 25 20:52:08  I've accessed my linux after the 1.1 update so no patches were there in the first place.
Jul 25 20:52:25  http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/194531-howto-official-d2globalinc-1-1-0-howtos.html
Jul 25 20:52:46  there is a list along with copy and paste instructions to modify some stuff.
Jul 25 20:53:13  Hmm. THe /opt/src/modifications list is were i pulled the patches
Jul 25 20:54:46  So they need to be updated at git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.gi
Jul 25 20:54:53  ?
Jul 25 20:58:18  right?
Jul 25 21:02:12  Whats the edit button in vi?
Jul 25 21:02:17  its been too long lol
Jul 25 21:02:37  ok, q! is save right?
Jul 25 21:08:04  wait, :wq is save right?
Jul 25 21:08:13  or :x? in vi
Jul 25 21:09:55  both
Jul 25 21:10:15  :wq  and :x both mean write and quit
Jul 25 21:10:28  :x is newer, but works on the pre's version
Jul 25 21:10:51  also ZZ (without the :)
Jul 25 21:10:59  :x and :q! is all i use
Jul 25 21:11:16  without the smiley face X!)!!?
Jul 25 21:11:29  ok, ill use :x :)
Jul 25 21:11:43  X1011*
Jul 25 21:11:54  lol
Jul 25 21:12:08  shoot... its read only..
Jul 25 21:12:21  how do I uninstall a homebre app? (orange + clicking on app doesn't have an option to delete)
Jul 25 21:12:41  it probebly installed itself into the wrong place HebrewzHammer
Jul 25 21:13:05  if so, you'll have to go to linux, and cd to /usr/palm/applications and delete the directory for it
Jul 25 21:13:07  What do i do now? its read only
Jul 25 21:13:39  save it to a writable partition like /media/internal  and then remount the root fs as writable.
Jul 25 21:13:44  imop45
Jul 25 21:13:59  Rick_: so just deleting the directory will work? I don't have to change anything in the registry or anything?
Jul 25 21:14:00  credit would be nice... that's all I'm saying :)
Jul 25 21:14:04  lol, just j/k
Jul 25 21:14:18  ok Rick
Jul 25 21:14:27  HebrewzHammer yes
Jul 25 21:14:34  HebrewzHammer you have to restart luna.
Jul 25 21:14:47  or it won't disappear from the launcher
Jul 25 21:14:58  Rick_: k, thanx
Jul 25 21:20:10  Rick_: the add/del patch and the enable browser download patches from gitorious.org dont work anymore
Jul 25 21:54:36  morning
Jul 25 21:55:33  rwhitby: morning
Jul 25 21:56:25  destinal: ka6sox is going to create the autobuilder instance today - once that is up and running new versions into the preware will be automatic after the commit.
Jul 25 21:56:51  playing with fileCoaster
Jul 25 21:56:53  destinal: based on overnight backlog, it's probably best to bump the terminal app version every time the plugin changes
Jul 25 21:57:38  ok
Jul 25 21:57:53  more intuitive
Jul 25 21:58:15  we can has autobuilder?  :P
Jul 25 21:59:54  hey destinal, I committed some terminal changes
Jul 25 22:00:05  mrvc: cool, pulling
Jul 25 22:00:24  destinal: trying to get scrolling working better
Jul 25 22:00:28  destinal: still needs some work
Jul 25 22:00:37  are we keeping up with teh cursor yet?
Jul 25 22:01:19  Robi_: no, you still have to scroll manually to stay at the bottom
Jul 25 22:02:35  k -:/
Jul 25 22:02:37  Robi_: I'm planning on having it just scroll to the bottom initially, and the main terminal will always be at the bottom
Jul 25 22:02:46  rwhitby: did you write the program that allows /OTA app instals?
Jul 25 22:02:52  then push up, ya
Jul 25 22:03:00  imop45: which program?
Jul 25 22:03:06  then scroll up if needed
Jul 25 22:03:19  like a terminal based app catalog
Jul 25 22:03:51  Robi_: yep, kinda
Jul 25 22:04:13  uh now since 1.1 my quilts are borked
Jul 25 22:04:16  imop45: are you talking about something that exists now? or some conceptual idea?
Jul 25 22:04:22  Robi_: ideally you never know there is stuff above the terminal unless you flick
Jul 25 22:04:50  page at a time ?
Jul 25 22:05:05  Hmm, maybe it wasnt you. Someonone posted a link to precentral yesterday about the "first" something about apps on the pre
Jul 25 22:07:09  where is the quilt patch files HOME directory?
Jul 25 22:07:12  imop45: that was me.  Terminal app, plus Palm's version of ipkg
Jul 25 22:07:21  Ok
Jul 25 22:07:29  james_: /opt/src/patches I think
Jul 25 22:07:43  imop45: I wrote almost none of it.
Jul 25 22:08:16  Ok, what's its name?
Jul 25 22:09:00  Terminal
Jul 25 22:09:42  ok, and can you pull homebrew installs from their?
Jul 25 22:10:09  I would think so
Jul 25 22:10:14  if you can list them with ipkg
Jul 25 22:11:59  So to install an app onto the pre.. You have to download it from your comp, put it into the internal/media part on the pre, then go to a command line and use palm install?
Jul 25 22:12:05  imop45: have you read the Terminal wiki page?
Jul 25 22:12:12  or the thread on PreCentral?
Jul 25 22:12:20  No, not yet, im serching for it
Jul 25 22:12:44  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jul 25 22:12:44  rwhitby: someone pointed out that we're falling behind on some of the apps hosted there.. don't know how to fix other than the developer submitting new versions (or a Makefile to build and autobuild for)
Jul 25 22:13:09  destinal: as soon as autobuild is up, you just bump the version in the makefile
Jul 25 22:13:30  http://www.precentral.net/
Jul 25 22:13:31  rwhitby: right, but hopefully the maintainer of that app does it
Jul 25 22:13:36  gui installers
Jul 25 22:14:13  Robi_: ah, good.  PreGame's app and Jason's apps are out.
Jul 25 22:14:40  so what is the status of quilt patches and 1.1?
Jul 25 22:14:42  WebOS Quick Install is freeware, but not open source.
Jul 25 22:14:57  I uninstalled all before upgrading, and was wondering what was safe to apply to 1.1
Jul 25 22:15:03  So what app would be best to install homebrews
Jul 25 22:15:57  fileCoaster is cc-nc-nd, so not an open source license either (since you can't make derivatives of it)
Jul 25 22:16:21  :(
Jul 25 22:16:22  But what uses the palm-install and sdk method?
Jul 25 22:16:25  but both WebOS Quick Install and fileCoaster are excellent new apps for end users.
Jul 25 22:16:27  Yeah i saw that
Jul 25 22:16:53  So should i add those as exceptible programs on my Portal page?
Jul 25 22:16:56  PreGame: no OSS love?
Jul 25 22:17:54  PreGame has freed the information and techniques, but not the code.  That's a reasonable mid-point for someone who wants to try and make some cash in the app store but still support webos-internals.
Jul 25 22:18:17  ya gotta keep your brand going ;]
Jul 25 22:18:24  always about money
Jul 25 22:18:39  rwhitby: yeah, I hear you.
Jul 25 22:18:52  imop45: it may not be about the money - I don't know PreGames motivation.
Jul 25 22:19:12  I'm not characterising PreGame in any way.
Jul 25 22:19:12  Oh, no about the midpoint comment. Not about pregame
Jul 25 22:20:02  People will have all sorts of reasons not to go full open source.  Author's wishes should always be respected when it comes to licensing.
Jul 25 22:20:23  best option is to give code snippets
Jul 25 22:20:28  Oh yes i know. But to charge money for use of an app...
Jul 25 22:20:30  ouch
Jul 25 22:20:55  We can try and convince them otherwise, but we should respect an author's decision on how they want to license their work.
Jul 25 22:21:52  imop45: we're talking about software here, right?  charging money for software is something some might consider common :P
Jul 25 22:22:17  and he's licensing CC so you can copy it around
Jul 25 22:22:32  imop45: seen the iPhone app store? :P
Jul 25 22:22:33  Right, but charging money for a software program so you can download software programs.
Jul 25 22:23:03  it's just a tool to make it easier
Jul 25 22:23:12  You dont have to buy the App store though ltm. And theres a lot a freeware. I remember Palm OS-freeware everyware! ltm
Jul 25 22:24:35  imop45: i thought you were talking about charging for an app, not for the app store itself
Jul 25 22:25:28  Yeah i agree in charging for an app, but like our homebrew apps are normally free.
Jul 25 22:25:50  And filecoster, etc is free
Jul 25 22:26:32  hmm, having a problem
Jul 25 22:27:56  Ive done the updates
Jul 25 22:28:00  http://webos.pastebin.com/d4478a8c
Jul 25 22:28:13  Whats wrong?
Jul 25 22:28:34  to quilt, or not to quilt, that is the question.   So if I am on 1.1 and I apply a patch via quilt, and it's not 1.1 compatible, would break something?  (I don't know how quilt patches work behind the scenes to patch things.  )
Jul 25 22:29:06  No not mess anything up
Jul 25 22:29:28  it messed up my messaging
Jul 25 22:29:36  i think the message-forwarding.patch
Jul 25 22:29:48  Um, hasnt for me. It just doesnt work ltm
Jul 25 22:30:00  ltm?
Jul 25 22:30:07  laugh to myselg
Jul 25 22:30:14  myself*
Jul 25 22:30:45 * rwhitby posts http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1779339 to congratulate PreGame
Jul 25 22:30:52  ok it was not the patch i don't think
Jul 25 22:31:03  after the removing of patches and reboot it's still not working
Jul 25 22:31:06  The add/del launcher pages doesnt work or the enable browser downloades, or the enable dev mode icon dont work for me. With the quilt patches
Jul 25 22:32:05  Hmmmm, does it give an error when you try to apply the patches that don't work?
Jul 25 22:32:17  Can someone help me? Have no idea what to do
Jul 25 22:32:40  Sirwill: http://webos.pastebin.com/d1110fb2
Jul 25 22:33:53  tbanks
Jul 25 22:33:53  rwhitby: Cannot find package x-webosinternals-termplugin.
Jul 25 22:34:20  imop45: check your > and >> when creating preware.conf
Jul 25 22:34:44  ok, triple checking
Jul 25 22:35:01  your preware.conf file should have two lines in it
Jul 25 22:35:05  rwhitby: tee -a might be better
Jul 25 22:35:08  harder to mess up
Jul 25 22:35:38  rwhitby:  looks like the apps announced today aren't repository based, don't support upgrades like the preware feed does
Jul 25 22:36:21  hate how putty freezs up and delays
Jul 25 22:36:29  destinal: yep, none of these 5 groups developing app installers have really thought about the complete life-cycle, and all of them have decided to just ignore the 10 years of package management experience embedded in ipkg.
Jul 25 22:37:04  maybe we should provide a dbus api with popup confirmation
Jul 25 22:37:08  for installs
Jul 25 22:37:12  and uninstalls
Jul 25 22:39:48  destinal: the best thing is that now application installation support can be handled in the forums around these convenience apps, so we can concentrate on creating new stuff here :-)
Jul 25 22:40:31  So what convience app would you be supporting the most? File coaster?
Jul 25 22:41:20  imop45: I don't think necessarily *support* either one
Jul 25 22:41:26  here
Jul 25 22:41:55  Well on my page i'd like to put a link to an app other than prebrew
Jul 25 22:43:12  well coaster is on phone, so that's nice.  definitely point them at whatever tool will make it easy to get it going, not sure if we need a "webos-internals stamp of approval" on either one for you to use it  :)
Jul 25 22:44:17  what is coaster?
Jul 25 22:44:28  imop45: neither tool seems honestly to be much easier than SDK, palm-install whatever.ipk
Jul 25 22:45:20  Ok so do i download the ipk to the palm pre /media/internals?
Jul 25 22:45:31  ah i see
Jul 25 22:45:36  we need a repo :)
Jul 25 22:45:48  that whole copy link is a PITA so i will wait for now :D
Jul 25 22:45:50  PreGame awesome work
Jul 25 22:45:51  jcrawford: we have a repo -- preware.   we need a gui app
Jul 25 22:46:09  destinal: thought file coaster was the gui app?
Jul 25 22:46:12  right now you can use terminal on the phone to add preware
Jul 25 22:46:34  jcrawford: file coaster isn't open source and isn't repository based, we'll want a gui app that installs from preware feed
Jul 25 22:47:02  ipkg remove *nfl
Jul 25 22:47:43  hmm i almost didnt use my phone today and in 12hrs i lost 43% of battery
Jul 25 22:47:46  hmm
Jul 25 22:49:23  en0x: theres a way to see the batt log
Jul 25 22:49:34  ah
Jul 25 22:49:40  how do you install an ipk again?
Jul 25 22:49:45  ipkg-opt install?
Jul 25 22:51:10  ipkg -o /var install url/file.ipkg
Jul 25 22:51:11  imop45: i know
Jul 25 22:51:12  Anyone feel like helping me root a pre and remove the nascar app?
Jul 25 22:51:16  directfb - 1.1.0-9 - DirectFB is a thin library that provides developers with h
Jul 25 22:51:17  <-- is a noob
Jul 25 22:51:20  ardware graphics acceleration, input device handling and abstraction,
Jul 25 22:51:28  but i think 43% in 12 hrs basically with no phone use is too much
Jul 25 22:51:29  :S
Jul 25 22:52:01  But where do you download the ipkg?
Jul 25 22:53:09  destinal1: I'm working with the WebOS Quick Install author to package our terminal plugin in a way that it can be automatically intalled by his app.
Jul 25 22:53:20  ...I'll take that as a no.
Jul 25 22:53:55  Shur-i think its already been done
Jul 25 22:54:06  rwhitby: what about a package for the preware feed that that they can autoinstall also?
Jul 25 22:54:26  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hide/Delete_The_NASCAR_App
Jul 25 22:54:27  destinal1: yeah, good idea.
Jul 25 22:54:27  if he's not against repo-based on-device stuff
Jul 25 22:55:12  destinal1: his app is freeware closed source, with no restrictions on what it can be used for, and he's a good guy.
Jul 25 22:55:59  Shurukian[TSI]: sure :)  there's a bunch of instructions on the wiki to walk your right through rooting and then you can run the instructions on the hide / delete page imop45 sent
Jul 25 22:57:37  thank you sir. :)
Jul 25 22:58:08  Shurukian[TSI]: if you run into any questions or issues in that, just shout ;)
Jul 25 22:58:29  anyone got arkon car holder for pre? :>
Jul 25 22:58:49  what if i left off the /var?
Jul 25 22:59:05  I might have many.
Jul 25 22:59:27  jcrawford: you'd be messing with palm's built-in application database, with potential for future OTA upgrade breakage.
Jul 25 22:59:51  rwhitby: how do i uninstall so i can re-install then?
Jul 25 23:00:11  destinal: we're going to work with Jason on getting his app to do postinst scripts automatically.
Jul 25 23:00:31  rwhitby: nice
Jul 25 23:02:22  Why is there connect 4 and shortcovers, etc stuff on the /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var list?
Jul 25 23:02:32  imop45: for all of your app deletes, you only need to have luna-send a rescan: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Jul 25 23:02:35  Are they modded applications?
Jul 25 23:02:46  less impact, faster results
Jul 25 23:02:47  imop45: 3rd party pre applications
Jul 25 23:03:00  Does anyone leave dev mode on all the time?
Jul 25 23:03:07  Aw, ok. So they show alll of your apps also?
Jul 25 23:03:09  Eguy: i do
Jul 25 23:03:13  I am starting to think I should just leave it on all the time
Jul 25 23:03:22  imop45: cause you've installed them from the palm app catalog
Jul 25 23:03:24  how can I maximize battery?
Jul 25 23:03:29  imop45: yeah, any app you've installed normally will show there
Jul 25 23:03:51  we're using palm's standard application packaging system
Jul 25 23:03:59  I don't think I've ever turned it on, except for the first time.  once dropbear is installed, there's no need
Jul 25 23:04:16  ok, makes sense
Jul 25 23:04:51  sigh
Jul 25 23:04:56  bleh I don't like dropbear
Jul 25 23:05:23  Once  is installed, there's no need
Jul 25 23:05:32  The terminal app sure helps but it kills the device ram
Jul 25 23:05:44  Eguy: kills RAM? how so?
Jul 25 23:05:55  My pre gets way laggy when I use it
Jul 25 23:06:03  Eguy: same here
Jul 25 23:06:06  Eguy: it's not RAM, it's redraw
Jul 25 23:06:08  ditto
Jul 25 23:06:15  does anyone know which file would affect the look of sms conversations?  i have this script 
 before every text message
Jul 25 23:06:27  smartass :P
Jul 25 23:06:29  our redraw mechanism is really slow at the moment.
Jul 25 23:06:48  I have high hopes that you will fix it :)
Jul 25 23:07:34  Eguy: we're trying to figure out why, and what the "right way" to do drawing is (since palm omitted headers to their graphics library from webcore)
Jul 25 23:09:03  I want to come up with a new architecture for plugins, very different from what's in terminal now, that will make conventional gui apps easier to port and hopefully avoid those issues.   I don't know what it will look like, yet
Jul 25 23:09:07  suckers cant u just add the headers?
Jul 25 23:09:35  en0x: we can dump object information and make the headers but we still have to figure out how to use the functions properly
Jul 25 23:10:11  i c
Jul 25 23:10:41  some information in the headers we can't get by just dumping libraries though
Jul 25 23:10:51  it can be somewhat time consuming
Jul 25 23:11:07  james_: that's not a script, that's a div with a css class, it has to be before and after (enclosing) the message
Jul 25 23:11:30  oh, you mean in your actual sms messages as they display?
Jul 25 23:11:31  i applied the quilt patches and that was the result
Jul 25 23:12:01  james_: perhaps the 1.1 update broke one of the patches
Jul 25 23:12:09  which did you apply?
Jul 25 23:12:09  then i removed the patches and it was the same, so i'm replacing the entire com.palm.app.messaging with my backup
Jul 25 23:12:14  i did all
Jul 25 23:12:23  hrmph
Jul 25 23:12:34  how the heck does pretracker not have any files under the app directory?
Jul 25 23:12:37  pretty sure the update broke a lot of patches
Jul 25 23:12:38  there is nothing in the app heh
Jul 25 23:12:49  I'm currently verifying the sound one...
Jul 25 23:12:54  what is LEDService?
Jul 25 23:13:02  pretracker is the ups shipper tracker?
Jul 25 23:13:06  no
Jul 25 23:13:09  it's the running app
Jul 25 23:13:11  ah nm
Jul 25 23:13:12  that is prepackage
Jul 25 23:13:17  to track speed, etc.
Jul 25 23:13:27  but it is not packaged like most other apps it is in
Jul 25 23:13:43   /usr/palm/applications/pretrack/
Jul 25 23:13:51  but there are 0 files under the directory
Jul 25 23:14:33  jcrawford: all packages are packed for /usr/palm, but the -o /var puts them in /var/usr/palm
Jul 25 23:14:53  hmm then why does the directory exist?
Jul 25 23:15:00  all my apps are under /usr/palm
Jul 25 23:15:28  what method did you use to install them?
Jul 25 23:15:57  ipkg -o /var install pretrack.ipk
Jul 25 23:16:13  first though i did do ipkg-opt install pretrack.ipk
Jul 25 23:16:24  then ipkg-opt remove pretrack
Jul 25 23:16:57  fucking sms
Jul 25 23:17:44  jcrawford: if something was holding a file open in /usr/palm/applications/pretrack, then rm would not be able to delete it.
Jul 25 23:17:49  so did anyone figured out a way to light the notification lights on missed call or something?
Jul 25 23:17:52  just delete the empty directory by hand
Jul 25 23:17:52  ok
Jul 25 23:18:19  en0x there is something called LEDService in the repo but I don't know what it is
Jul 25 23:18:35  thats the one based on bash scripts
Jul 25 23:18:41  ah
Jul 25 23:18:48  looks like ugly hack i thought of something thats using mojo
Jul 25 23:18:49  I think that is the only way right now
Jul 25 23:20:43  LEDServices it NOT based on bash scripts
Jul 25 23:20:53  its a java services
Jul 25 23:21:04  that reads and writes directly to the proper /sys files
Jul 25 23:21:16  Mojo does not provide a way to access LEDs yet
Jul 25 23:21:17  en0x: to get low level access to things you need services, and then your mojo app calls the services
Jul 25 23:21:47  so i made a service to do it
Jul 25 23:21:57  for the love of god
Jul 25 23:22:04  the author of pretrack is not following standards
Jul 25 23:22:10  is there a good read me file on rooting some where for the pre? anyone know?
Jul 25 23:22:11  PuffTheMagic: oh i see
Jul 25 23:22:17  "id": "pretrack",
Jul 25 23:22:23  jcrawford: ugh
Jul 25 23:22:29  that is in the appinfo and that is why it is installed to /applications/pretrack/
Jul 25 23:22:32  PuffTheMagic: so its like that they have a service for the leds when you press the gesture area right
Jul 25 23:22:39  and they calling that service from mojo
Jul 25 23:23:10  en0x: i have node idea how Palm does it
Jul 25 23:23:13  but they have no public way of doing it
Jul 25 23:23:14  professorjason there's nothing to root, and the details of what to do to get full linux access are on the wikihttp://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux
Jul 25 23:23:47  jcrawford: that author needs to read the doco more - I doubt they have created a new top-level DNS domain called 'pretrack'
Jul 25 23:23:57  but professorjason you need to understand that the pre --- comes --- open there's no "breaking in"  Palm supplies 100% of the software and the pre is set up for it OUT OF THE BOX.
Jul 25 23:24:14  rwhitby: yea i know :D
Jul 25 23:24:16  i do understand that
Jul 25 23:24:19  There's no rooting required.  If you want to use linux on the pre, you just attach to it and open the right software.
Jul 25 23:24:19  rwhitby: hey, you never know, he may be insanely powerfule
Jul 25 23:24:22  maybe this should be my first app
Jul 25 23:24:28  s/ule/ul/
Jul 25 23:24:28  destinal meant: rwhitby: hey, you never know, he may be insanely powerful
Jul 25 23:24:48  ok then,  professorjason  there's a summary, and links to detailed walk through's on the wiki at the page I pointed you to.
Jul 25 23:24:54  what's a new TLD here and there for new apps
Jul 25 23:24:57  but we're kinda sensitive to the "R" word.
Jul 25 23:25:01  destinal: insanely powerful, or just unable to follow instructions.  hmm - wonder which :-)
Jul 25 23:25:25  do it the proper way heh
Jul 25 23:26:24  Can someone destroy protection an make it so you don't have to enable dev mode :P?
Jul 25 23:26:32  lol files named like this
Jul 25 23:26:32  first-assistantworking3
Jul 25 23:26:41  first-assistant[working1]
Jul 25 23:26:44  rofl
Jul 25 23:26:48  they are not reading docs
Jul 25 23:26:55 * jcrawford will remove this app from his pre very soon
Jul 25 23:26:58  What did you expect?
Jul 25 23:27:31  jcrawford: he may have done it before docs were freely available, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Jul 25 23:27:36  what is putty an abreveation for?
Jul 25 23:27:46  pu tty
Jul 25 23:27:56  rwhitby: yes but... that does not mean he has not had time to correct things
Jul 25 23:28:28  so i am trying to put the teathering program on my pre , do i need pu tty?
Jul 25 23:28:32  rwhitby: still, looking at the on-phone and market apps should have helped there
Jul 25 23:29:05  but yeah if no docs, hard to blame someone much
Jul 25 23:29:19  professorjason: you've read the Precentral and mytether forums for help first?
Jul 25 23:29:35  yes
Jul 25 23:29:42  Uh.. ive installed a few homebrews.. My pre is really lugging along
Jul 25 23:30:00  I thought we were still trying to refrain from talking about tethering on both PC and webos-internals?
Jul 25 23:30:20  imop45: if you've run the terminal a lot and closed it without exiting the shell, you may want to reboot
Jul 25 23:30:41  it doesn't currently terminate processes on card destroy
Jul 25 23:30:45  you can run "killall /bin/sh"
Jul 25 23:31:38  what about the ","? Have you all found teh character code for that?
Jul 25 23:31:49  anyone that can explain the poing in doing this?
Jul 25 23:31:51  http://pastie.org/559029
Jul 25 23:32:20  why are they doing the same calc for lon1 and lon2 then doing dLon = lon2 - lon1
Jul 25 23:32:24  will always be 0
Jul 25 23:32:53  lon2=lon2*(Math.PI/180);  converts dec to deg, i believe
Jul 25 23:33:17  maybe vice versa
Jul 25 23:33:18  raeb: i believe so too but what is the point of doing the same calc for lon2 and lon1 then subtracting them?
Jul 25 23:33:26  jcrawford: they're doing the same calc for each against its current value
Jul 25 23:33:33  not the same value
Jul 25 23:33:35  aH
Jul 25 23:33:39 * jcrawford bows head
Jul 25 23:33:46  i see they are passing the values in
Jul 25 23:34:18 * jcrawford pushes destinal for knowing that without seeing the entire function code :D
Jul 25 23:35:03  jcrawford: I'd probably use different variables if I was them, if for nothing more than to make the code self-documenting
Jul 25 23:35:40  ie lat1deg = lat1dec *  .. etc
Jul 25 23:36:12  you lose a tiny bit of RAM though but that doesn't look that important here
Jul 25 23:37:41  or maybe just make a function
Jul 25 23:37:50  simplyflipflop does nothing either
Jul 25 23:37:50  :D
Jul 25 23:38:04  i'm going to talk to them about partnering up on the app before i just start a competing app
Jul 25 23:38:21  i have ideas for a running app myself but we will see their thoughts
Jul 25 23:44:20  what is the command to restart luna again?
Jul 25 23:44:27  i know i do not have to always reboot the device
Jul 25 23:44:32  just to see an installed app show up
Jul 25 23:45:42  jcrawford: you don't even have to restart luna: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Jul 25 23:46:23  ah thanks :D
Jul 25 23:57:36  hey guys.
Jul 26 00:01:30  Decimation: hey
Jul 26 00:10:31  is each version of webos doc customized based on the SN provided?
Jul 26 00:14:39  czarphanguye: no, we've checked md5sums
Jul 26 00:14:51  czarphanguye: you can check yours against the md5sum in the wiki page
Jul 26 00:17:48  rwhitby: thanks
Jul 26 00:21:53  you know I never knew you could not use the data transfer when roaming
Jul 26 00:21:55  that blows
Jul 26 00:22:04  they should tell you that when you get the contract
Jul 26 00:22:30  ... or i should have read the papers closer though the guy did say you are free to read this but i will tell you what it says and started spewing off but never mentioned data only works in-network
Jul 26 00:26:25  i have my device connected via usb however palm-install keeps telling me there is no device connected :(
Jul 26 00:37:17  if someone wants a job to get themselves commit access to our git repos, please clone gitorious.org/webos-internals/preware.git and go in and update the app//Makefile files with the latest versions of the open source apps from PreCentral and the new direct-download URLs that PreCentral is providing for them?
Jul 26 00:37:20  how do i remove a user from the pre?
Jul 26 00:39:04  vi/nano
Jul 26 00:40:28  tmzt: is that for me?
Jul 26 00:40:39  yeah
Jul 26 00:40:44  edit /etc/passwd
Jul 26 00:40:52  remove the home directory (if any)
Jul 26 00:41:00  edit /etc/group if you want
Jul 26 00:41:07  ok, is that the way? cuz on linux they have deluser or w/e
Jul 26 00:41:15  maybe run pwconv, but I don't know how
Jul 26 00:41:28  you can try deluser, it does the same things though
Jul 26 00:41:42  there is no deluser on the pre, thats why i was asking
Jul 26 00:48:07  jcrawford you still here?
Jul 26 00:48:12  now the question is, why cant i ssh into the pre?
Jul 26 00:48:19  how long do you think it will be till all the homebrew apps are listed when you enter /usr/bin ipkg -o /var list
Jul 26 00:48:21  i keep getting connection refused
Jul 26 00:48:44  gkatsev did you run the optware setup script from teh wiki?
Jul 26 00:48:57  Rick__: yes
Jul 26 00:49:06  Decimation: as soon as they are put into standard ipkg feeds
Jul 26 00:49:16  Decimation: preware.org only lists FLOSS apps
Jul 26 00:49:18  are you trying to ssh in to the wifi ip or to the evdo ip?
Jul 26 00:49:31  Rick__: wifi
Jul 26 00:49:33  I'm hoping PreCentral will host a free for homebrew apps with any licenses
Jul 26 00:49:41  what is the wifi address of your pre?
Jul 26 00:50:03  Decimation: and I've discussed with the PreCentral tech guys how to do that
Jul 26 00:50:14  i have a server
Jul 26 00:50:15  192.168.1.4, i should be able to connect
Jul 26 00:50:18  repo.ytpocket.com
Jul 26 00:50:25  i could host stuff there :)
Jul 26 00:50:42  they may decide to do FLOSS apps only too, since anything involving money will cause Palm to have to react I expect
Jul 26 00:50:49  gkatsev what's the ip address of your computer?
Jul 26 00:51:01  .3
Jul 26 00:51:04  ok
Jul 26 00:51:27  Decimation: sure - write a script which scours the precentral.net homebrew forum, picks out all the ipkgs and puts them in a standard feed on your site.
Jul 26 00:51:31  we sometimes have people whos wifi router puts computers and pres into different subnets and the subnet mask prevents connection
Jul 26 00:51:54  then just put a /var/etc/ipkg/decimation.conf file on the Pre and they will all be listed alongside the preware.org ones
Jul 26 00:51:58  yeah, i actually told my router to keep the pre's mac at .4, my lappy at .3 and the comp downstairs as .2
Jul 26 00:52:11  gk - good on you
Jul 26 00:52:24  though, sometimes it is weird, and i end up with my lappy on .4 and the pre on .5
Jul 26 00:52:29  Decimation: how you handle the apps that don't have clear licensing declarations as far as redistribution goes is up to you
Jul 26 00:52:31  Ok,  can you PING the computer from the pre?   if you use terminal on the pre, or go in via novacom?
Jul 26 00:52:53  yep, can ping both ways
Jul 26 00:52:57  ok
Jul 26 00:53:06  so,  is dropbear RUNNING?
Jul 26 00:53:29  i just started it again
Jul 26 00:53:45  before, i got "no route to host"
Jul 26 00:54:17  ok
Jul 26 00:54:20  rwhitby: i might actually work on that, i was working on a desktop installer with a live feed from that server but i decided to step back and let that pregame guy do his.. so i'll try to get working on this.
Jul 26 00:55:23  hey guys with the mojo sdk is there a way to get a unique device id?
Jul 26 00:55:28  do the devices have an id?
Jul 26 00:55:38  i guess i could use the mac address because those would all be unique right?
Jul 26 00:55:48  but is there a way for an application to get at that data?
Jul 26 00:56:28  actually, seems like it is not running...
Jul 26 00:57:08  Rick__: how can i start it? "initctl start optware-dropbear"?
Jul 26 00:58:42  palm-install: no device found -grrr
Jul 26 01:00:28  Decimation: that's the thing with open standards, people can work on interoperating things
Jul 26 01:04:21  Now what can be a reason my laptop cannot recognize my palm pre when I run palm-install?
Jul 26 01:04:37  It is a new phone, different from the one before.
Jul 26 01:04:38 * rwhitby notices that PreGame has http://precoder.net/ :-)
Jul 26 01:06:05  I see someone got an early pre shell app running
Jul 26 01:06:06  >.>
Jul 26 01:06:07  <.,
Jul 26 01:06:10  <.<*
Jul 26 01:06:25  it's still a dumb term though :<
Jul 26 01:09:01  no it's not
Jul 26 01:09:05  well sort of
Jul 26 01:09:18  but it was hard.
Jul 26 01:09:23  and they're still working on it
Jul 26 01:12:41  Is it a direct C plugin for the webos broswer?
Jul 26 01:12:51  Tilton53: yes
Jul 26 01:12:55  nice
Jul 26 01:12:59  Tilton53: the source is in our git repo
Jul 26 01:13:08  I saw someone wrote the ajaxterm into a webos app too
Jul 26 01:13:09  XD
Jul 26 01:13:16  Tilton53: yeah it's a "dumb terminal" but it has vt100 and now linux emulatioin
Jul 26 01:13:16  well halfway
Jul 26 01:13:51  Tilton53 recognize that key-mapping is a major challenge... since there is no {}| or ESC keys.....    :-)
Jul 26 01:13:56  rwhitby: do the pre's have a unique device id
Jul 26 01:14:05  or is there a way to get the unique mac address from mojo?
Jul 26 01:14:08  Rick keymapping always sucks
Jul 26 01:14:09  :/
Jul 26 01:14:18  i think there is a mac id in device info?
Jul 26 01:14:21  the pre just makes it that much harder
Jul 26 01:14:24  i will need some unique identifier for each device for an app i am brainstorming
Jul 26 01:14:24  i thought that's how it spoofed the ipod
Jul 26 01:14:29  plus, at this point, they still have  not completely reversed the headers on palm's graphic's library and they're raw blitting the charcaters into the pixbuff.
Jul 26 01:14:40  no James
Jul 26 01:14:50  Palm basicly tells the computer it's an ipod
Jul 26 01:14:55  made by apple
Jul 26 01:14:57  jcrawford there is  a unique identifier for each device.
Jul 26 01:15:01  basically... that's what it does lol.
Jul 26 01:15:04  obviously
Jul 26 01:15:09  Rick__: how do you access that via mojo?
Jul 26 01:15:27  the app might require a service and an app in order to wok fast and properly
Jul 26 01:15:31  the omap has a unique id I believe
Jul 26 01:15:35  the app i am brainstorming that is :D
Jul 26 01:15:58  jcrawford: any unique id you use from webOS will be able to be spoofed by an appropriate root-level modification :-)
Jul 26 01:16:11  rwhitby: hmm
Jul 26 01:16:14  jcrawford did you think, perhaps of going to developer.palm.com and typing unique id into the search box?
Jul 26 01:16:16  .....
Jul 26 01:16:23  but here, I'll do it for you.
Jul 26 01:16:24  http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1550
Jul 26 01:16:36  okay preware.org now contains fileCoaster
Jul 26 01:16:37  i am not that concerned with spoofing really it's only used to identify the device on a website because the app will interact with a web service
Jul 26 01:17:03  Rick__: i figured i would let you do the work for me haha j/k
Jul 26 01:17:10  basically, device properties returns a json, one element of which is a unique id.
Jul 26 01:17:12  it meets the criteria for preware.org, since the source code is available and redistributeable, even though it's not modifiable.
Jul 26 01:17:28  fileCoaster?
Jul 26 01:17:44  PreGame's on-device GUI installer app
Jul 26 01:17:55  seriously rwhitby ?
Jul 26 01:17:58  "It works!"
Jul 26 01:17:59  XD
Jul 26 01:18:13  Tilton53: seriously
Jul 26 01:18:24  >.> No pretty frontpage
Jul 26 01:18:25  ?
Jul 26 01:18:52  Tilton53: which URL are you referring to?
Jul 26 01:18:58  preware.org
Jul 26 01:19:05  function before form
Jul 26 01:19:33  ipkg doesn't care what HTML you have on the web page :-)
Jul 26 01:19:37  it's just a file repository right?
Jul 26 01:19:41  for ipkg?
Jul 26 01:19:44  yep
Jul 26 01:20:14  that's the most important part, since it's the interoperable standard amongst which all the other apps can work.
Jul 26 01:20:55  Raw SMTP mail headers aren't pretty either ...
Jul 26 01:21:19  but they form the solid foundation upon which all mail clients are based
Jul 26 01:22:16  unfortunately, most of the GUI app installer developers haven't thought through the complete life-cycle of applications, including upgrades and clean removal.
Jul 26 01:22:39  they've gone for convenience before getting the functionality complete first.
Jul 26 01:22:58  it's two different approaches.  each has pros and cons.
Jul 26 01:23:17 * geist downloads the sdk, stops the presses
Jul 26 01:23:50  geist!!!!!
Jul 26 01:23:58  hey geist, are you pleased we're promoting novacom for everything now ;-)
Jul 26 01:24:06  yeah, saw that
Jul 26 01:24:18  is that what the gui installers are doing?
Jul 26 01:24:23  punching files around via novacom?
Jul 26 01:24:45  geist: most are, yes.
Jul 26 01:25:01  the host-based ones.
Jul 26 01:25:11  killer
Jul 26 01:25:31  bout to run through hello world. i've actually never to this day written a line of mojo app
Jul 26 01:25:51  geist: I'm not surprised.  Neither have I :-)
Jul 26 01:26:03  someone has to focus on the plumbing.
Jul 26 01:26:10  i operate almost entirely on the other end of the sw stack
Jul 26 01:27:26  geist: we're just working out now how to support postinst files in ipkgs via novacom (since the /var off-line mode of ipkg doesn't run them)
Jul 26 01:27:54  oh also, you might bump into a long standing novacom bug with that
Jul 26 01:28:06  should be able to do postinst and prerm, but probably not preinst and postrm
Jul 26 01:28:08  if you try to run ipkg directly without launching a shell
Jul 26 01:28:43  some of the postinst scripts may fail, since it doesn't have the right environment set up, i think
Jul 26 01:28:56  geist: we were just going to run the scripts directly from /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/.postinst
Jul 26 01:29:21  kay
Jul 26 01:29:25  and restrict plugin app postinsts to not require the environment
Jul 26 01:29:31  geist: you
Jul 26 01:29:39  kay
Jul 26 01:29:40  geist: you've seen the termplugin?
Jul 26 01:29:42  any google voice users here?
Jul 26 01:29:51  rwhitby: a little, saw it on precentral
Jul 26 01:29:59  it goes in through a browser plugin?
Jul 26 01:29:59  LarrySteeze: i am a google voice user.
Jul 26 01:30:04  geist: yep
Jul 26 01:30:04  geist...  lemme ask you a stupid question.
Jul 26 01:30:11  Decimation: would you like a GV dialer app?
Jul 26 01:30:16  since you're a novacomm guru...
Jul 26 01:30:27  yeah, on day one cdm and i were waiting for someone to figure out that you can draw directly to the framebuffer and still get to live in a card if you write a browser plugin
Jul 26 01:30:27  LarrySteeze: more than words could describe
Jul 26 01:30:34  but you know, couldn't say it, etc
Jul 26 01:30:34  ok
Jul 26 01:30:45  i've decided to build one but i need help
Jul 26 01:30:50  LarrySteeze: are you my savior? :)
Jul 26 01:30:52  lol
Jul 26 01:30:53  what do you need help with?
Jul 26 01:31:10  i need the resources that i would need to access with the app
Jul 26 01:31:20  Rick__: shoot
Jul 26 01:31:29  i am a brand new GV user, so I'm not incredibly versed in how it works
Jul 26 01:31:41  There are genius' here, ask around, they know their programming.
Jul 26 01:31:47  so I need to be pointed to a place that I can learn about the things I would need to implement
Jul 26 01:31:48  I'm new too, as of the 21st
Jul 26 01:32:00  geist - really stupid question -- is there -any- way to get an effective term app on windows talking through novacom.  Every trick I've tried failed.  But perhaps you know something I don't.
Jul 26 01:32:13  'cause the command line thing -works- but it's very very very lame.
Jul 26 01:32:15  call out from the google voice number, text from it, view voicemail inbox
Jul 26 01:32:27  Rick__: not really
Jul 26 01:32:29  so in essence
Jul 26 01:32:31  Rick__: without hacking some code
Jul 26 01:32:45  essentially the novacom.exe binary doesn't have any of the termios stuff you get on a posix environment
Jul 26 01:32:45  all it needs to do is dial out (probably through the phone app_
Jul 26 01:32:52  and view the web
Jul 26 01:33:00  so it doesn't disable line discipline, get the equivalent of SIGWINCH, etc in windows
Jul 26 01:33:03  Accessing Linux != "rooting your Pre" << THANK YOU rwhitby
Jul 26 01:33:03  ?
Jul 26 01:33:09  -.- that was driving me insane
Jul 26 01:33:13  i should take a look at it, I just think there's no equivalent in windows
Jul 26 01:33:27  right.
Jul 26 01:33:28  for windows, really the best strategy there is to write a native app. C#, java, etc
Jul 26 01:33:35  and draw it in a purdy window
Jul 26 01:34:12  Rick__: but mostly, it's just a JIRA sitting in someone's queue at Palm
Jul 26 01:34:57  I can take a look at it though, maybe there's some sort of windows command line equivalent
Jul 26 01:35:05  there almost has to be, really
Jul 26 01:35:06  nope
Jul 26 01:35:15  they pulled all that from cmd when they released xp
Jul 26 01:35:27  no kidding...
Jul 26 01:35:31  no kidding.
Jul 26 01:35:51  not even a version of old kbhit() or somethign from the dos days?
Jul 26 01:35:54  they required applications wanting to effect the command window to make system calls.
Jul 26 01:36:03  ugh
Jul 26 01:36:20  basically, they specifically prohibited anything like the old ansi-sys functionality
Jul 26 01:36:20  and anyway, i dont know if the command line actually emulaqtes vt100 at all
Jul 26 01:36:24  i would guess no
Jul 26 01:36:32  right
Jul 26 01:36:40  of course, novacom.exe for cygwin would totally work
Jul 26 01:36:41  well, it was worth asking.
Jul 26 01:36:50  since they've done all the hard stuff
Jul 26 01:37:16  we had nearly the same thing at Danger, and the solution was to write a gui app for windows
Jul 26 01:37:26  yeah.  I may in fact just bundle up an absolutely minimal cygwin set to wrap around an xterm and novacom and call that novaterm for windows and post it on the wiki.
Jul 26 01:37:41  Anyone here?
Jul 26 01:37:54  no, tht list of people on the left are  all ghosts.
Jul 26 01:37:57  you could factor out the protocol bits in novacom.exe pretty easily and write a native app if youw ant
Jul 26 01:38:00  Larry, are you still here?
Jul 26 01:38:08  that has been reverse engineered mostly
Jul 26 01:38:39  yo
Jul 26 01:38:47  novacom.exe just implements a little packet based protocol that keeps stdin/stderr/stdout streams interleaved and allows SIGWINCH, etc
Jul 26 01:39:07  geist -- I have other projects, plus life, and my actual paying programming, so no thanks.  :-)  I think the xterm and novacom under cygwin is going to be the solution of the day until _someone else_ comes up with a magic app.
Jul 26 01:39:16  and it also does the misc work of connecting to port 6970 first, getting the port the device is on, etc
Jul 26 01:39:40  Rick__: I might look into it this evening. Might be fun to brush off some C# skills
Jul 26 01:39:51  hello
Jul 26 01:39:52  the hardest part would be implementing vt100, if there isn't already a control for that
Jul 26 01:39:53  geist: yeah, we have precomd which implements a bit of novacom protocol without infringing on copyright
Jul 26 01:40:08  copyright?
Jul 26 01:40:09  I am getting started with messing around modifying exiting apps and such but before I start messing around with the files I wanted to backup the entire file and folder structure on the pre to my pc. I setup SFTP and.......
Jul 26 01:40:11  geist - if you hack something, I'll send you your preffered beverage of choice. -- well within reasonable price restrictions....
Jul 26 01:40:21  geist: redistribution of novacom stuff
Jul 26 01:40:31  oh. well okay
Jul 26 01:40:53  Rick__: sure. Not sure i'd be able to open sores it though, is the only gotcha
Jul 26 01:40:56  can access my pre with winSCP but at various places I get any where from generic errors to access issue errors
Jul 26 01:40:59  probably so though, it's pretty well understood
Jul 26 01:41:00  we don't have the right to distribute novacom drivers, so people currently have to unpack the doctor or install the SDK to get them for the host-based gui installer apps
Jul 26 01:41:24  rwhitby: ah, yeah. and anyway as updates come it'd be nice if there weren't rogue versions floating around
Jul 26 01:41:32  geist: agreed
Jul 26 01:41:34  so that got me to thinking perhaps a command line backup method would be better and archive the whole pre to a file on the pre to copy over to my pc instead
Jul 26 01:41:44  is there a way to do that?
Jul 26 01:41:52  geist: maybe just the novacom drivers can be separated out as an easy install
Jul 26 01:42:09  hey i was wonderin if someone could help me gain access to my pre with win7 64 bit... i did it with my desktop but for some reason i cant get it to work with my laptop
Jul 26 01:42:20  rwhitby: yeah
Jul 26 01:42:48  iv tried just about everything
Jul 26 01:43:03  when i check the device manager the novacom drivers are installed
Jul 26 01:43:24  Rick__: SetConsoleMode() looks like maybe what you want
Jul 26 01:43:44  and i am able to tether just fine i just cant root or use the prebrew or use that new webos quick install
Jul 26 01:44:03  though the lack of vt100 probably clobbers it anyway
Jul 26 01:44:25  geist: fully agree that sourcing the novacom drivers for all platfoms only from Palm is the best way forward, cause then you guys synchronise updates at both ends of the pipe.
Jul 26 01:44:38  yeah
Jul 26 01:44:54  coffee shop closing down, gotta go
Jul 26 01:44:56  back in a while
Jul 26 01:45:01  well,  there's always something like jc-term to start from.
Jul 26 01:45:04  geist: thx for dropping by
Jul 26 01:45:10  then all the terminal parts are done.
Jul 26 01:45:54  so no one wants to help i guess
Jul 26 01:46:16  anyone have any recommendations for a complete command line backup solution to get all the files off the pre to my pc?
Jul 26 01:46:19  xTKxhom3r: which forums and wiki pages have you searched already?
Jul 26 01:46:25  StoneRyno: rsync
Jul 26 01:46:44  StoneRyno  what he said
Jul 26 01:46:51  xTKxhom3r
Jul 26 01:46:53  don't leave
Jul 26 01:47:02  StoneRyno: get root ssh key access working first, using the procedure on the applying-patches page so you don't need sudo, then run rsync as root
Jul 26 01:47:03  we were in the middle of talking to a comm engineer from Palm.
Jul 26 01:47:13  just precentral and i followed all the directions on webos-internals
Jul 26 01:47:39  xTKxhom3r: there is a thread in the Palm webOS developer forums on windows 7 64 bit problems
Jul 26 01:47:44  xTKxhom3r  - which precentral post?
Jul 26 01:48:48  oh well im sorry for interrupting you guys i didnt know
Jul 26 01:48:57  xTKxhom3r we're done now
Jul 26 01:49:00  he's gone
Jul 26 01:49:05  ok
Jul 26 01:49:06  and we're wanting to work with you
Jul 26 01:49:15  so
Jul 26 01:49:19  alright well
Jul 26 01:49:20  slick rick gonna take care of you
Jul 26 01:49:27  you installed the sdk?
Jul 26 01:49:40  the real new one from palm not the leaked one.
Jul 26 01:49:50  i tried the new sdk you guys posted but i cant get it to work
Jul 26 01:50:02  we guys didn't post nothing.
Jul 26 01:50:11  you downloaded the sdk from palm, right?
Jul 26 01:50:15  anyone here wanna point me in the right direction for this app i'm trying to dev?
Jul 26 01:50:18  straight from developer.palm.com...
Jul 26 01:50:24  Yes so far I have completed the instructions on Set up users, Optware, and access, Applying Patches, and Setup SFTP
Jul 26 01:50:59  yes
Jul 26 01:51:25  ok
Jul 26 01:51:39  prior to that xTKxhom3r had you installed a previous version of the sdk?
Jul 26 01:51:57  I guess then all I need now is instructions on how to use rsync
Jul 26 01:51:59  not the sdk just the prebrew method
Jul 26 01:52:20  so you had previously installed novacom drivers prior to downloding the sdk?
Jul 26 01:52:32  yes
Jul 26 01:52:36  StoneRyno  google is your friend.
Jul 26 01:52:45  xTKxhom3r  ok
Jul 26 01:52:49  here's my advice.
Jul 26 01:52:57  1) uninstall the sdk using add/remove programs
Jul 26 01:53:03  yep was getting ready to type in a search for it
Jul 26 01:53:12  2: plug the pre in and go to DEVICE MANAGER in windows
Jul 26 01:53:22  see if there is a novacom device listed in there.
Jul 26 01:53:22  prior to the new sdk i had the novacom drivers from the webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar file
Jul 26 01:53:30  if there is, delete it.
Jul 26 01:53:40  LarrySteeze: what's your question?
Jul 26 01:53:43  then,  run a search over your c: drive for novacom*.*
Jul 26 01:53:47  and delete all of them.
Jul 26 01:53:52  Then, re-install the sdk
Jul 26 01:54:08  WITHOUT PLUGIN THE PRE IN until after the sdk install is done.
Jul 26 01:54:09  ok let me try that right now
Jul 26 01:54:14  oh,  and make sure w
Jul 26 01:54:16  WAIT WAIT
Jul 26 01:54:21  im here lol
Jul 26 01:54:22  thank you guys for your help will jump back in if i get confused
Jul 26 01:54:31  and make sure that you have installed the 64 bit java jdk before you start.
Jul 26 01:54:36  and safari 4
Jul 26 01:54:40  and virtualbox.
Jul 26 01:54:42  I'm trying to START development on a google voice application, as I now have google voice
Jul 26 01:54:44  (safari 4 is optional)
Jul 26 01:54:53  I just don't know where to start...I can't find any google voice apis
Jul 26 01:54:54  Templarian  shhhhhhh.....
Jul 26 01:54:56  i have the virtualbox installed
Jul 26 01:55:04  do you have the java sdk?
Jul 26 01:55:14  but i dont think i have sava64 installed
Jul 26 01:55:19  get that too.
Jul 26 01:55:25  before you start the sdk install
Jul 26 01:55:29  i downloaded java from the java website but i think it gave me 32
Jul 26 01:55:41  you have to ask it for 64.
Jul 26 01:55:44  Yea you need to grab the 64bit one on their site.
Jul 26 01:55:46  don't uninstall the 32.
Jul 26 01:55:59  you have to jump through ALL the hoops.
Jul 26 01:56:00  i just install the 64 over?
Jul 26 01:56:06  it installs parallel
Jul 26 01:56:13  sweet
Jul 26 01:56:33  hey how about the winusb drivers do i need to uninstall those? the pre is my only source of internet right now
Jul 26 01:56:36  then, after you jump all those hoops, plug the pre in, select charge only and you should be good to go.
Jul 26 01:56:46  DO NOT mess with the winusb stuff yet.
Jul 26 01:56:56  ouch
Jul 26 01:57:00  OHHH you know what i remember why i couldnt install the new sdk
Jul 26 01:57:07  yes?
Jul 26 01:57:29  it would say the installation was inturrupted or something during the installation
Jul 26 01:57:35  nodnod.
Jul 26 01:57:38  no java64
Jul 26 01:57:43  ic ic
Jul 26 01:57:52  but you may lose your winusb stuff when you do this.
Jul 26 01:58:00  damn
Jul 26 01:58:03  not good
Jul 26 01:58:05  lol
Jul 26 01:58:10  you can always put it back.
Jul 26 01:58:17  hey kinda off topic but
Jul 26 01:58:23  *sigh*\
Jul 26 01:58:34  LarrySteeze  sorry.
Jul 26 01:58:39  hows the speed of your tethering with the pre?
Jul 26 01:58:42  I've never tried to program to google voice.
Jul 26 01:58:52  but they HAVE to have an api somewhere.
Jul 26 01:58:58  xTKxhom3r off topic for this channel.
Jul 26 01:59:42  it would be the same as evdo pretty much
Jul 26 01:59:42  which I would guess is on-topic
Jul 26 01:59:56  LarrySteeze, http://posttopic.com/topic/google-voice-add-on-development any help?
Jul 26 02:00:31  LarrySteeze  http://adriel.dynalias.com/blog/?p=252
Jul 26 02:00:49  LarrySteeze http://posttopic.com/topic/google-voice-add-on-development
Jul 26 02:00:57  LarrySteeze  google is your friend.....
Jul 26 02:00:59 * psykoz prods Rick__
Jul 26 02:01:01  ;)
Jul 26 02:01:03  trying to show me up eh?
Jul 26 02:01:28  psykoz  great minds think alike.
Jul 26 02:01:37  great minds
Jul 26 02:01:39 * psykoz looks around
Jul 26 02:01:44  must be the guy behind me you're talking to
Jul 26 02:01:50  hehehehe
Jul 26 02:01:51  AH HAH
Jul 26 02:02:00  ah ha?
Jul 26 02:02:01  64bit java download in progress
Jul 26 02:02:09  good luck sir
Jul 26 02:02:31  only 60kb/s :( my touch pro used to get about 170
Jul 26 02:03:01  thanks a lot rick i hope this fix's everything
Jul 26 02:03:07  put the pre at the focus of a spherical steel colendar and point it at the nearest sprint tower.
Jul 26 02:03:19  lol
Jul 26 02:03:29  that should triple your radio reception strength and increase your bandwidth
Jul 26 02:03:34  I'm not kidding.....
Jul 26 02:03:43  oh ... lol
Jul 26 02:04:59  xTKxhom3r  http://www.engadget.com/2005/03/22/wifi-wok-and-the-chinese-cookware-2-4ghz-repeaters/
Jul 26 02:05:44  ok so if I type rsync *.* /media/internal/PreBackup/ this will dupicate all files and folders to the specified folder on the pre right?
Jul 26 02:05:57  xTKxhom3r http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
Jul 26 02:06:58  LMAO who woulda thought wow thats awesome lol
Jul 26 02:08:37  or are there options in need to specify, I'm command line challanged with linux
Jul 26 02:08:52  StoneRyno http://everythinglinux.org/rsync/
Jul 26 02:09:27  the thing they're doing there is no different than a satellite dish being a perfect parabola with w/ focus into that cell phone ;)
Jul 26 02:09:40  so you could skip the wok and just get you a directtv dish
Jul 26 02:09:47  and affix your cellphone on the boom
Jul 26 02:09:54  less math work involved
Jul 26 02:11:20  I'd rather use my wok for cooking anyway ;)
Jul 26 02:12:07  Rick__: did you manage to get your hands on one of those magic wands?
Jul 26 02:14:23  test
Jul 26 02:14:27  can anyone read this?
Jul 26 02:15:21  LarrySteeze: yes
Jul 26 02:15:47  ok cool
Jul 26 02:16:08  my browser isn't seeming to work so i was worried that my net stopped working for some reason
Jul 26 02:18:02  well
Jul 26 02:18:07  that didnt work
Jul 26 02:18:16  i got the same error
Jul 26 02:19:04  you still there rick?
Jul 26 02:24:52  thanks much i believe i have it: rsync -a -v / /media/internals/PreBackup/
Jul 26 02:25:59  I have rooted my Pre and can ssh into it; yet su does not seem to work. Please give me some insight on troubleshooting this scenario.
Jul 26 02:26:01  does pregame's flashlight app install cleanly?
Jul 26 02:26:06  uninstall*
Jul 26 02:26:10  rujin, sudo su
Jul 26 02:26:11  ?
Jul 26 02:26:43  psykoz: let me try that
Jul 26 02:26:58  rujin, did you do the sudoers parts the wiki talks about?
Jul 26 02:27:27  psykoz: sure did
Jul 26 02:27:45  or sudo -s
Jul 26 02:27:53  psykoz: sudo su  ... works
Jul 26 02:28:04  rujin, that's the point ;)
Jul 26 02:28:39  I dunno why, I'm not much of a sudoer person myself (prefers wheel group / su instead) but that's what the instructions set you up for, sudo
Jul 26 02:30:07  does that allow you to avoid typing root password?
Jul 26 02:30:28  xTKxhom3r  sorry, wife wante dto talk
Jul 26 02:30:38  xTKxhom3r I have no more suggestions for you.  Sorry.
Jul 26 02:30:56  LOL not what i was expecting to hear
Jul 26 02:31:11  well i tried the prebrew again and now i got a different error
Jul 26 02:31:23  k
Jul 26 02:31:30  what?
Jul 26 02:32:04  Install Application 1.2 by Greg Roll 2009
Jul 26 02:32:05  Installs an application on the Palm Pre
Jul 26 02:32:06  Ensure your Palm Pre is connected and running in developer mode.
Jul 26 02:32:08  Press any key to continue . . .
Jul 26 02:32:09  Starting PreTool...
Jul 26 02:32:11  Checking for webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar...
Jul 26 02:32:13  webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar found.
Jul 26 02:32:14  Running Java...
Jul 26 02:32:16  PreTool 1.2 by Greg Roll 2009
Jul 26 02:32:18  Connects to the Palm Pre and performs various opperations.
Jul 26 02:32:20  NOTE: Requires Dev Mode Enabled on Palm Pre. (upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbast
Jul 26 02:32:21  art)
Jul 26 02:32:23  NOTE: Requires Pre connected in "Just Charge" mode.
Jul 26 02:32:24  Connected to Novacom Controller
Jul 26 02:32:26  Listing devices...
Jul 26 02:32:28  Unable to connect to Novacom. Check driver is running.
Jul 26 02:32:29  Error: java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect
Jul 26 02:32:31  Things to try....
Jul 26 02:32:33  Ensure your Pre is connected and running in DEV mode. (upupdowndownleftrightleft
Jul 26 02:32:34  rightbastart)
Jul 26 02:32:36  Check Palm Pre is connected in "Just Charge" mode.
Jul 26 02:32:38  Ensure the 'Palm Novacom' Service is running.
Jul 26 02:32:39  Disconnect your Palm Pre and restart your computer, connect your Palm Pre back t
Jul 26 02:32:41  o the computer and wait for it to say charging then try again.
Jul 26 02:32:43  Java complete.
Jul 26 02:32:45  Complete. Check for any error messages above.
Jul 26 02:32:47  Press any key to continue . . .
Jul 26 02:32:57  next time you have a long thing, please use pastebin
Jul 26 02:33:09  dont do that. use pastebin
Jul 26 02:33:18  xTKxhom3r  -- did the sdk install without errors?
Jul 26 02:33:26  how do i use pastebin
Jul 26 02:33:31  no i got the same error
Jul 26 02:33:44  what error was that?
Jul 26 02:33:48  xTKxhom3r_: unfortunately, Greg Roll doesn't frequent this IRC channel, and we recommend just using the SDK and Palm's documentation
Jul 26 02:34:04  rwhitby he's trying to install the sdk.
Jul 26 02:34:08  it is't installing...
Jul 26 02:34:44  xTKxhom3r what's the errro when you instakk the sdk.
Jul 26 02:34:51  Rick__: has he checked the webOS dev forum I pointed to?
Jul 26 02:34:53  yea it starts installing then it says the installtion got interrupted
Jul 26 02:35:18  ok,  xTKxhom3r  you're going to have to move to the palm forums on developer. palm.com
Jul 26 02:35:24  'cause we've tried the simple stuff.
Jul 26 02:35:32  don't have to move, but please check there first
Jul 26 02:35:33  rwhitby pointed you at the right thread there.
Jul 26 02:35:40  ok
Jul 26 02:35:47  there's a specific thread on windows 7 ther
Jul 26 02:35:48  sorry.  simple fix didn't work.
Jul 26 02:35:51  thanks for the help you guys
Jul 26 02:35:52  nodnod
Jul 26 02:36:35  do you think ill have better luck on a vista 64 rig?
Jul 26 02:36:42  xTKxhom3r_: if that doesn't help, feel free to come back here to debug some more
Jul 26 02:37:24  or post in the webOS dev forums - where Palm can see it and have people who's job it is to make the SDK work on their supported platforms :-)
Jul 26 02:37:42  xTKxhom3r no, people here have sucessfully installed on windows 7
Jul 26 02:38:18  honestly, if I had to guess xTKxhom3r I suspect it's some remnent of your experiments with Greg Roll's installer that is in the way.
Jul 26 02:38:23  haha ok well im gonna go search their forums
Jul 26 02:38:23  but I'm not sure.
Jul 26 02:40:56  what is the current rev of the sdk?
Jul 26 02:41:02  I guess I should update
Jul 26 02:41:45  jauderho if you're usint the leaked sdk, then yes.  If you're using a palm-released sdk, there have been no releases in the past week.
Jul 26 02:42:21  I have the prerelease sdk from a while ago.
Jul 26 02:43:11  jauderho: early release or the really old one.
Jul 26 02:43:25  haha the flashlight app works good
Jul 26 02:43:29  shoot. it's been weeks =)
Jul 26 02:43:39  jauderho: go update lol.
Jul 26 02:43:48  heh =) I figured
Jul 26 02:43:50  I will
Jul 26 02:44:15  but learning japanese right now (offtopic). learning a new language in your 30s is hard... =(
Jul 26 02:44:52  you should get a nintendo ds and it's fun to learn!
Jul 26 02:45:20  lol. nah. trying out rosetta stone
Jul 26 02:45:23  The ds game's fun (my friend has it)
Jul 26 02:45:43  it's slick i'll say but i'm not convinced that this is the best way to learn.
Jul 26 02:45:43  rosetta is so typical for an old guy :P
Jul 26 02:45:51  lol
Jul 26 02:46:17  I'm trying to learn enough to have a conversation not to live/write/work there.
Jul 26 02:46:41  i'd like to try rosetta
Jul 26 02:47:14  bittorrent...*cough* *cough*.
Jul 26 02:47:23  so i have heard
Jul 26 02:47:28  I'll pay for it if I decide to keep it but undecided right now.
Jul 26 02:47:32  and it's crazy $$$
Jul 26 02:48:21  besides japanese is silly hard to learn. 3 char systems that are randomly interchangable.
Jul 26 02:48:33  i miss you guys
Jul 26 02:48:44  my friend learned japanese on his ds for real
Jul 26 02:48:53  because he got a position there
Jul 26 02:48:57  and lives there currently
Jul 26 02:49:00  hmm
Jul 26 02:49:05  will have to check it out
Jul 26 02:49:18  plus most games on the ds are in japanese
Jul 26 02:49:43  or have japanese versions
Jul 26 02:51:02  which game is it ? http://www.tofugu.com/2007/08/02/studying-japanese-with-a-nintendo-ds/
Jul 26 02:51:11  i'm not sure exactly
Jul 26 02:51:25  he had a game that was for learning and one for translating
Jul 26 02:51:32  you can write on the screen w/ the stylus
Jul 26 02:51:45  and the rest were just games he played
Jul 26 02:51:55  put together the stories from what he knew
Jul 26 02:52:14  hmm, you would think japanese is easier for me since I took 14 years of chinese but nope
Jul 26 02:52:18  forgot it all
Jul 26 02:52:23  sad.
Jul 26 02:55:01  hey guys
Jul 26 02:58:52  Anybody watch formula 1 here?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jul 26 02:59:56 2009