**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 27 02:59:57 2009 Jul 27 03:01:10 rwhitby: you could ask pH5 about hosting it on linuxtogo.org Jul 27 03:01:23 There's always sourceforge. Jul 27 03:01:32 if you want more of a mailing list than forum feel Jul 27 03:01:52 http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals-announce - bow to our new Google overlords :-) Jul 27 03:02:19 low volume announce-only list. Jul 27 03:02:32 Terminal 1.0.4 will be announced there later today ... ;-) Jul 27 03:03:26 Joined. :-) Jul 27 03:04:55 rwhitby, will it be released for download? Jul 27 03:05:24 rwhitby: How does it handle modifier keys? Jul 27 03:10:07 rwhitby: hmm, maybe we should change the versioning scheme Jul 27 03:10:24 1.0.4 makes more sense than what the actual number is right now probably :) Jul 27 03:11:02 james_: it will be in preware.org Jul 27 03:11:08 well, maybe not, the 0 as the first digit was designed to indicate alpha Jul 27 03:11:28 destinal: make it 1.0.0 when it runs emacs correctly ;-) Jul 27 03:11:43 rwhitby: hehe, I thought you might say something like that :P Jul 27 03:12:16 towers of hanoi in emacs should be the test case Jul 27 03:12:55 quotemstr_: we have shift, orange, sym, and gesture hold as modifiers right now Jul 27 03:13:02 sym is the control key Jul 27 03:13:22 we do x.y.z as in, x = whole new product upgrade, y = major feature changes, z = minor updates/bugfixes Jul 27 03:13:28 for the product my company designs Jul 27 03:13:38 psykoz: yeah that was the model I intended originally as well Jul 27 03:13:59 destinal: is there a way to do special characters yet? such as |{}[] Jul 27 03:14:01 but we're releasing so frequently I'm just using the last digit Jul 27 03:14:15 JackieRipper: well, the pipe is orange + period key Jul 27 03:14:28 Heh. At least it's not the scheme I'm using. First version is 1, second version is 2, and so on. Who needs dots? :-) Jul 27 03:14:28 cool Jul 27 03:14:29 the others, not yet. we need a sym popup (double tap sym maybe) Jul 27 03:14:35 well it doesn't seem all that crazy that you guys might dredge through so many bugfixes that you end up at 1.0.15 to be honest Jul 27 03:14:53 perhaps an on screen kb of just special characters? Jul 27 03:14:55 then you slap some new awesome feature in and make it 1.1.0 Jul 27 03:15:11 JackieRipper: actually we'll probably go that way, (on screen) Jul 27 03:15:22 destinal, you could also include build numbers if you want to go a little further with beta Jul 27 03:15:26 you guys rule... but you know that :) Jul 27 03:15:35 a row of touchable keys that changes based on shift, sym, orange, and gesture hold. that should give us tons of keys Jul 27 03:15:35 destinal, ie: just for now say this will be 1.0.4beta-build-xyz Jul 27 03:15:49 and then when 1.0.4 final is final, then its no longer beta Jul 27 03:15:51 well it's alpha so it's 0.1.4 Jul 27 03:16:16 yeah, I'm just saying you could throw in build number to keep from 0.1.4 clobbering through 0.1.35 Jul 27 03:16:21 but really the middle # should probably be higher by now with all the new functionality Jul 27 03:17:50 we could maybe do a sym popup in addition later for non-power-users Jul 27 03:18:09 (besides just the touch row for those who know what's on shift vs sym vs orange) Jul 27 03:18:58 quotemstr_: I'm with you on the versioning. Any monotonically increasing integer will do :-) Keeps the users guessing as to whether it's safe to upgrade or not. Jul 27 03:19:06 (since there's never a .0 version) Jul 27 03:19:29 rwhitby: heh, that's basically what we've done here so far Jul 27 03:19:37 so I'd liek to voice a sorta (non-complaint?/suggestion).. landscape mode is sorta really useless (unless there's going to eventually be an onscreen keyboard *puke*), why even have it rotate/landscape, seems like a waste Jul 27 03:19:43 nightlies with the last digit signifying which one Jul 27 03:19:58 psykoz: for watching top Jul 27 03:20:02 psykoz, you can type sideways! Jul 27 03:20:13 bpadalino, psh ;) Jul 27 03:20:23 psykoz: some people are actually typing sideways, amazingly enough. but more for viewing, yes Jul 27 03:21:03 has anyone used the scripts to access linux since 1.1? Jul 27 03:21:54 PreHero: the wiki instructions linked from the front page should work for 1.1 Jul 27 03:24:33 PreHero: I have Jul 27 03:25:03 my update to 1.1 didn't take... I had to use the doctor, and then noaterm and the script Jul 27 03:25:36 what happened when you updated to 1.1? Jul 27 03:26:02 Wouldn't boot Jul 27 03:26:43 actually, even the doctor didn't fix it... I had to call sprint and do a factory reset Jul 27 03:27:19 that is, the WebOSDoctor got it booted, but I couldn't sign into my profile Jul 27 03:27:26 the doctor fixes it, but when the phone boots it does not connect to the palm profile because the evdo settings are bad Jul 27 03:30:22 that's it Jul 27 03:30:53 I had to do something with hashes... I wish I had written down what he had me do Jul 27 03:31:28 yep ##786#, hit reset and enter you master subsidy lock code Jul 27 03:31:33 yes Jul 27 03:32:07 then all was well Jul 27 03:32:22 cept you had to update to 1.1 again :P Jul 27 03:32:27 Is there a way to make applications deleteable? Jul 27 03:32:30 yes Jul 27 03:32:35 but it worked that time Jul 27 03:33:01 quotemstr_, downloaded apps or stock apps? Jul 27 03:33:13 The guy at sprint was exceptionally cool Jul 27 03:33:35 james_: Stock Jul 27 03:33:51 For example, I really, really, don't need an "app" that just loads the Sprint homepage Jul 27 03:33:58 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Hide/Delete_The_NASCAR_App Jul 27 03:33:58 Or Nascar, for that matter Jul 27 03:34:04 Thanks! :-D Jul 27 03:34:57 helo all Jul 27 03:35:02 hello* Jul 27 03:35:03 hi wchriseg Jul 27 03:35:13 lol at the part that says "by now yhou should get the basic idea of how to delete an app" Jul 27 03:35:19 is there someone that might beable the help me really quick Jul 27 03:35:33 what's the problem? Jul 27 03:35:43 destinal: one thing I thought of re: security -- we could have something like a captcha, where some letters are shown on the screen and you have to type them in Jul 27 03:35:43 i dont know crap about linux Jul 27 03:36:00 i am trying to edit the webos to bypass activation Jul 27 03:36:06 i get tho this part Jul 27 03:36:17 patch foo.js < patch Jul 27 03:36:24 how do i do that Jul 27 03:36:59 wchriseg: that is a command Jul 27 03:37:00 mrvc: hmmm... Jul 27 03:37:45 mrvc: /bin/login is simpler, but that's an interesting idea Jul 27 03:37:47 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation Jul 27 03:37:54 i am stuck at number 7 Jul 27 03:37:55 wchriseg: which page are you following? Jul 27 03:38:01 heh Jul 27 03:38:17 that is silly Jul 27 03:38:53 what is silly is how are it was to figure out how to get root to extract all the files Jul 27 03:39:02 the instructions Jul 27 03:39:12 mrvc: one important thing I forgot about, we need to kill the shell we spawned if the card gets destroyed. IIRC the kill should cascade-kill everything that's a child of the shell Jul 27 03:39:22 wchriseg, are you in a sprint service area? are you trying to repair the phone from a failed update? Jul 27 03:39:41 no i am trying to do what is on the page i posted Jul 27 03:39:59 i am modifying the webos to bypass activation Jul 27 03:40:10 mrvc: right now people who don't type exit leave lots of random processes behind Jul 27 03:40:54 i know, but if you are in a sprint area and you are trying to bypass because it prompts you to enter a sprint service area then there is an easier way to fix your phone Jul 27 03:41:09 destinal: yep Jul 27 03:43:09 no this is for phones that will not be on sprint at all ever Jul 27 03:43:21 they are going to cricket and metro pcs Jul 27 03:43:43 right now i am root and stuck on set 7 Jul 27 03:43:53 set-step* Jul 27 03:44:06 destinal: make sure we can detach from screen, close the card, and open a new card and reattach later. Jul 27 03:44:19 wchriseg: it looks like the sections under "files to patch" should be saved as /tmp/patch1 and /tmp/patch2 Jul 27 03:44:45 and then you would run: patch /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/firstuse-util.js < /tmp/patch1 Jul 27 03:45:02 and : patch /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/models/account-service.js < /tmp/patch2 Jul 27 03:47:06 rwhitby: yeah Jul 27 03:53:09 bzhou * r10499 optware/trunk/make/aria2.mk: aria2: 1.5.0 -> 1.5.1 Jul 27 03:53:18 Why does using a USB mode turn off wifi and cellular access? Jul 27 03:53:41 bzhou * r10500 optware/trunk/make/hiawatha.mk: hiawatha: 6.15 -> 6.16 Jul 27 03:53:53 quotemstr_: usb mass storage? because it unmounts /media/internal Jul 27 03:54:01 bzhou * r10501 optware/trunk/make/nanoblogger.mk: nanoblogger: 3.4 -> 3.4.1 Jul 27 03:54:02 Ah. Jul 27 03:54:03 and you can't get MMS's or do other useful phone things Jul 27 03:54:22 * quotemstr_ wonders whether the phone could run samba or nfsd Jul 27 03:54:35 quotemstr_: it could, but I'd just use sshfs Jul 27 03:54:47 Thanks Jul 27 03:54:50 over usb0 (usbnet) Jul 27 03:55:19 you could do it over wifi but I like USB networking, better latency, stability, etc Jul 27 03:56:06 destinal: ssh over wifi has been fine now that it stays on while connected Jul 27 03:56:06 True. Or I could just configure it to listen on both interfaces, right? Jul 27 03:56:16 quotemstr_: sure Jul 27 04:03:29 I wonder why Sprint ever accepted a completely open phone. Jul 27 04:03:46 quotemstr_: because they are not verizon Jul 27 04:04:02 Is it possible to code an app that passes commands to the linux shell? Jul 27 04:04:14 commander Jul 27 04:04:20 PinkFloyd: You mean, a terminal emulator? Jul 27 04:04:27 or terminal Jul 27 04:04:30 I just noticed that heyu is in the Optware feed and would love to control my lights. Jul 27 04:05:04 No, I mean like an app with buttons. Such as "On" and "Off". And when you press those buttons, they send commands via the shell. Jul 27 04:05:21 Oh, okay. Jul 27 04:05:23 look at PreGame's flashlight app Jul 27 04:05:37 i believe thats how it works Jul 27 04:05:40 PinkFloyd: That sounds like an excellent way to learn Mojo. :-) Jul 27 04:05:46 True Jul 27 04:06:21 I just need an app that will establish an SSH connection to pass a remote command to my server with an attached X10 device and then kill that connection. Jul 27 04:07:01 PinkFloyd -- you will need two parts. Jul 27 04:07:07 You will need your mojo app Jul 27 04:07:16 and then you will need a linux backend that the mojo app talks to Jul 27 04:07:33 Problem is, I have no idea how to do that :D Jul 27 04:07:33 there are two ways to do that, with a service running on the dbus, and with a browser plugin. Jul 27 04:08:01 PinkFloyd one way, and NOT THE WAY WE LIKE THE MOST is to get a copy of "commander" and use the back end built into that. Jul 27 04:08:21 I'll pass on that Jul 27 04:08:23 commander accepts any arbitrary command typed into the text box, and executes it, and returns the output. Jul 27 04:08:36 well. if you want to work on it now, commander's what we got. Jul 27 04:08:40 * rwhitby mentions http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals-announce again, in case anyone missed it before Jul 27 04:08:58 unelss you can program in c++ in which case, you get destinal's basic plug in and code against that. Jul 27 04:08:58 Rick_: So Mojo can't directly run processes? Jul 27 04:09:03 commander should be deprecated now Jul 27 04:09:08 quotemstr_ no. Mojo lives in the sandbox. Jul 27 04:09:19 yes rwhitby can you get deiter to pull it? Jul 27 04:09:29 Rick__: Jul 27 04:09:32 yes? Jul 27 04:09:36 Well if anyone wants a project, just find me then. Jul 27 04:09:39 Rick__: But one could create a run-any-command dbus service, yes? Jul 27 04:09:52 yes, and we did, several weeks ago. Jul 27 04:10:15 it has some security issues ... Jul 27 04:10:24 rwhitby: A few. :-) Jul 27 04:10:27 Interesting though. Jul 27 04:10:29 some? SOME!?!?! It's nothing BUT a security issue. Jul 27 04:10:37 one giant security issue. Jul 27 04:10:56 Rick__: It could be worse. It could let you directly write any offset into /dev/mem. :-0 Jul 27 04:11:06 it does Jul 27 04:11:10 heh Jul 27 04:11:11 Well, indirectly. Jul 27 04:11:20 quotemstr_ you could also use the terminal plugin, and write a mojo app to talk to the terminal plugin as though a user was typing.... Jul 27 04:11:33 Is there anyway to disable the "Charging Battery" notification? Jul 27 04:11:51 haven't seen anyone scripting that Jul 27 04:12:07 PinkFloyd are you giving up already? 'cause I have an alternative for you. Jul 27 04:12:23 Im not much of a coder Jul 27 04:12:27 I do PHP and that's about it Jul 27 04:12:29 don't have to be Jul 27 04:12:39 that's my point. destinal and crew have done the work already. Jul 27 04:12:44 Id like to get into js but Jul 27 04:12:46 ok Jul 27 04:12:54 if you grab a copy of terminal -- and look at the mojo side of it, Jul 27 04:12:57 PinkFloyd: start and IRC channel and get others to do the coding for you .... Jul 27 04:13:09 sec Jul 27 04:13:14 you will see how to send commands to the terminal plugin. Jul 27 04:13:33 you can write a DIFFERENT mojo app, that uses that plugin to send commands to the linux to do your remote control. Jul 27 04:13:48 Ah ok Jul 27 04:13:56 Now... they're going to be increasing the security of that plugin, but you COULD write one Jul 27 04:13:56 I'll poke around the app Jul 27 04:13:59 yep Jul 27 04:14:06 note note note Jul 27 04:14:21 they're going to be increasing the security of tht plugin probably tonight to require a root password. Jul 27 04:14:48 which is a good idea, so your app would have to LOG IN in order to send commands, so your app would have to REQUEST the root password, but then you could save it.... Jul 27 04:15:03 ok Jul 27 04:15:04 Rick__: actually it does require login now Jul 27 04:15:11 Novaterm just keeps complaining about being unable to find the server. I'm on OS X. Is there anything else I need to do other than run novaterm in a terminal? Jul 27 04:15:11 destinal ok Jul 27 04:15:23 quotemstr_ you installed the sdk? Jul 27 04:15:31 my point generally about services and plugins Jul 27 04:15:34 they should never be generic Jul 27 04:15:45 Rick__: Yeah. Jul 27 04:15:56 to match the sandbox model, they should be crafted for a specific task and just have the power to perform that task Jul 27 04:16:03 So now that Im poking around the terminal app Jul 27 04:16:07 Is there anyway to disable the "Charging Battery" notification? Jul 27 04:16:12 quotemstr_ the pre is plugged in and either on charge or you didn't choose a model? Jul 27 04:16:22 Rick__: Yep Jul 27 04:16:28 Direct USB connection. Just charge. Jul 27 04:16:32 then I have no idea Jul 27 04:16:33 Tried disconnecting and reconnecting a few times too Jul 27 04:16:53 do you have your iptables locked too tight? novaterm runs on 69xx somehting. Jul 27 04:17:58 Huh? It's OS X. No iptables here. Besides -- it works over the USB cable, doesn't it? Jul 27 04:18:37 usb cable still uses ports Jul 27 04:18:48 it's over the novacomm but it's an ip connection Jul 27 04:19:06 To localhost. Jul 27 04:19:10 osx doesn't have a way to lock ports? Jul 27 04:19:15 Ah, there we go. Jul 27 04:19:21 Turns out the server wasn't running. Jul 27 04:19:40 The SDK installer installed /Library/LaunchDaemons/com.palm.novacomd with the wrong permissions. Jul 27 04:19:51 hm, I like this terminal Jul 27 04:20:10 yeah so do the rest of us. Jul 27 04:20:18 new version coming in a little bit. Jul 27 04:20:27 launch multple sessions, and text in COLOR... Jul 27 04:20:56 Wow. Jul 27 04:21:00 This thing even uses lvm. Jul 27 04:21:04 Im spoiled with PuTTY and Ubuntu, pretty colors. Jul 27 04:21:17 Why would you use Putty under Ubutu? Jul 27 04:21:19 err, Ubuntu Jul 27 04:21:29 I SSH into my server Jul 27 04:21:29 PinkFloyd: we have colors coming shortly, the code's already in the source tree Jul 27 04:21:30 :) Jul 27 04:21:42 I dont run Ubuntu desktop anymore Jul 27 04:21:45 PuTTY on Windows Jul 27 04:21:46 Ah, too bad this is busybox and not real GNU ls Jul 27 04:21:49 I'm more a fan of putty tray guy myself Jul 27 04:21:57 http://haanstra.eu/putty/ Jul 27 04:21:59 quotemstr_: you can install real ls, there's even a doc on the wiki Jul 27 04:22:07 Not because of the tray icon though, because of hyperlink recognition Jul 27 04:22:16 destinal: Oh, I plan to. Sorry, I need to stop blathering in public. Jul 27 04:22:22 :-/ Jul 27 04:22:25 :P Jul 27 04:22:54 does anyone know the path to the blue background image that's displayed during the Pre's initial setup? Jul 27 04:22:58 so Terminal was just updated to 0.1.3 adding login support Jul 27 04:23:26 h2d2: yes Jul 27 04:23:31 but because of my complex password, I am timing out of the login prompt Jul 27 04:23:47 guess I should choose a simpler password (security!) Jul 27 04:24:19 or learn to type faster Jul 27 04:24:29 yea or that Jul 27 04:24:48 but I've got 3 symbol and 2 letter in between 5 alphas Jul 27 04:24:52 h2d2: tricky problem to solve.. we've been talking about storing in encrypted form in the app a password so you don't have to type it but there are always potential concerns there Jul 27 04:25:15 h2d2: how do you know that Terminal was updated? the wiki page is still referencing 0.1.2 Jul 27 04:25:21 or we could just prompt in a mojo dialog I suppose Jul 27 04:25:30 * destinal smacks forehead for not updating wiki this morning Jul 27 04:25:43 the likelihood of a security issue goes down if it requires physical access Jul 27 04:26:09 so I don't think storing the password would be a big security issue Jul 27 04:26:13 Why would you use dropbear instead of openssh? Jul 27 04:26:28 imagine all the other stuff physical access would give; without a password Jul 27 04:26:37 h2d2: right, if the security model in webos does what we think in terms of kepeing other apps out of reading that stored password Jul 27 04:26:52 quotemstr_: dropbear uses less memory per connection (less than half, I think) than OpenSSH Jul 27 04:26:54 quotemstr_: less space, memory etc Jul 27 04:27:20 Interesting. Had no idea dropbear existed. Jul 27 04:27:22 quotemstr_: the only thing missing is sftp, which, you can get by installing just openssl-sftp Jul 27 04:27:42 quotemstr_ you would use dropbear because it's half the size of openssh Jul 27 04:27:43 gkatsev: I almost always just use scp anyway. Does that work out of the box? Jul 27 04:27:51 yep Jul 27 04:27:54 scp uses ssh Jul 27 04:28:06 Well, so does sftp, in a manner of speaking. Jul 27 04:28:27 quotemstr_: i guess Jul 27 04:28:50 quotemstr_: just remember that if you use something like pscp, to force it to only use scp otherwise it will fail Jul 27 04:29:18 i really want to get ssh finally working on my pre, cuz then i wont ever have to actually plug it in anywhere Jul 27 04:30:00 but for some reason dropbear doesnt want to run or something... Jul 27 04:30:14 so... does anyone know the path to the blue background image that's displayed during the Pre's initial setup? Jul 27 04:30:48 find a string on that page, and you'll find the image Jul 27 04:31:08 hey guys Jul 27 04:31:53 well, i better go to sleep Jul 27 04:31:56 night Jul 27 04:32:22 wait, so I can't login to my secondary login that I created when I enabled SSH access; but I can login to root without a password (on the Terminal app) ? Jul 27 04:32:42 h2d2: do you mean something like "grep -r "Palm Profile" *" ? Jul 27 04:32:43 hey Jul 27 04:32:58 hey back Jul 27 04:34:09 hmm, do you know of one that's displayed during the initial setup? Jul 27 04:34:39 well I would search for something more specific Jul 27 04:35:14 watch this video to find a good string: http://www.precentral.net/palm-pre-setup-and-gestures-video-overview Jul 27 04:36:22 whats the command to make the file system read/writeable Jul 27 04:36:26 mount something Jul 27 04:36:28 once you find the JS, you'll have to look in to the related CSS file Jul 27 04:36:32 mount -o remount,rw / Jul 27 04:36:39 ty sir. Jul 27 04:36:45 np Jul 27 04:37:04 and then "ro" to make it read-only again Jul 27 04:37:15 instead of rw Jul 27 04:38:35 okay, so im in putty Jul 27 04:38:38 using VI to modify a file Jul 27 04:38:42 how do i delete a line Jul 27 04:38:49 what is the command, i cant remember :/ lol Jul 27 04:38:50 dd Jul 27 04:38:51 dd Jul 27 04:38:59 Decimation, install nano or something like that Jul 27 04:39:02 must not be in insert mode Jul 27 04:39:03 It's a lot easier to use >_> Jul 27 04:39:26 hmm, how do i install nano? Jul 27 04:39:38 ipkg-opt install nano Jul 27 04:40:21 thanks, dh2d! I'm viewing it now Jul 27 04:40:42 you know something, I've been having problems with keeping /opt/bin in my PATH Jul 27 04:41:11 after installing Jul 27 04:41:12 PATH isnt something that just changes randomly Jul 27 04:41:13 do i just do Jul 27 04:41:16 nano filename Jul 27 04:41:17 nano filename Jul 27 04:41:19 yeah Jul 27 04:41:20 lol Jul 27 04:41:27 lol, that was weird. Jul 27 04:41:39 lol, sorry for asking so much guys, just learning :) Jul 27 04:42:13 h2d2: how are you adding it to your $PATH? Jul 27 04:42:16 yeah, I don't know about the PATH issue, but I don't mind doing /opt/bin/[exec_name] Jul 27 04:42:18 If I edit /etc/pmnetconfig/funcs, it'll be overwritten on the next OS update, right? Jul 27 04:43:47 h2d2: Have you configured /etc/profile.d/optware ? Jul 27 04:44:07 export PATH =$PATH:/new/path Jul 27 04:44:32 no space Jul 27 04:44:37 wow, nano is easier Jul 27 04:44:39 destinal, Zuchmir2: so, arrow keys are basically working, but if you hold the gesture area and press C, it is being captured by mojo Jul 27 04:44:39 so edited my file Jul 27 04:44:41 now how do i save Jul 27 04:44:44 no space after PATH, yes Jul 27 04:44:51 PATH=$PATH... Jul 27 04:45:00 but that will only work through your session Jul 27 04:45:06 it won't stick Jul 27 04:45:11 destinal, Zuchmir2: you really need to be able to hold it down to make it practical Jul 27 04:45:13 see, that's why Jul 27 04:45:18 so how do I make it stick Jul 27 04:45:20 ? Jul 27 04:45:38 h2d2: mkdir -p /etc/profile.d ; vi /etc/profile.d/optware Jul 27 04:45:48 http://predev.pastebin.com/m37d31d29 Jul 27 04:45:53 mrvc: does it feel usable? Jul 27 04:46:34 h2d2: because terminal and all plugins already run as root I think Jul 27 04:46:38 hmm, anybody that can help me with nano? Jul 27 04:46:44 i dont know how to exit, or save, or anything :/ Jul 27 04:46:52 destinal: you can still make it somewhat workable by tapping the gesture area twice to lock it Jul 27 04:46:57 Ctrl + O to save Jul 27 04:47:03 Ctrl + X to exit Jul 27 04:47:12 Ctrl + W to search Jul 27 04:47:18 Ctrl + K to cut an entire line Jul 27 04:47:20 wow, i love this some much more than vi Jul 27 04:47:23 lol Jul 27 04:47:23 Ctrl + C tells you the current line Jul 27 04:47:26 tmzt: yeah, but then what's the point of the login prompt... if it'll log me in with root... faux security! Jul 27 04:47:35 thanks Jackie! Jul 27 04:47:40 Decimation: bite your tongue :-P Jul 27 04:47:40 destinal: if we can figure out how to disable the default cut/copy/paste that would be better though Jul 27 04:48:02 h2d2: does it log you in as root when you specify another user? Jul 27 04:48:05 h2d2: np Jul 27 04:48:36 well, I'm off to bed Jul 27 04:48:42 have a good one Jul 27 04:48:47 PinkFloyd: thanks Jul 27 04:48:48 h2d2: I mean if you deliberately log in as root and enter root's password, it's supposed to log you in as root. that's a feature. :) Jul 27 04:48:51 np Jul 27 04:49:42 you are talking about the terminal application here, right? Jul 27 04:49:48 h2d2: well, not sure how they implemented it Jul 27 04:50:00 I thought it wwwwrked like xterm Jul 27 04:50:12 pty, non-login shell Jul 27 04:50:28 destinal: would one have the option of logging in as another user? Jul 27 04:50:29 I think they changed it Jul 27 04:50:46 tmzt: there needed to be a login prompt so other apps couldn't embed us and stuff us keystrokes Jul 27 04:50:56 if you have an idea for a better way, let me know Jul 27 04:51:27 if you want another user you su - user Jul 27 04:51:28 oh Jul 27 04:51:29 ok Jul 27 04:51:30 Jackie: so create the optware conf file and type the new paths (and a check for the exec if it's in the default sbin path...) that's all? Jul 27 04:51:39 with /bin/login? Jul 27 04:51:43 tmzt: yes Jul 27 04:52:14 did you prevent it from killing it? Jul 27 04:52:20 so other apps can't that anymore, even though root nopass works? Jul 27 04:52:26 h2d2: actually, that check is to a root-user check. That is, if you're root, add /opt/sbin to the PATH Jul 27 04:52:36 h2d2: well you need to set a root password Jul 27 04:53:00 otherwise they can. the next feature is to check if you have a root password and prompt for a new one if it's null Jul 27 04:53:01 kk, rebooting, lets see if i didnt totally fuck up with nano :) Jul 27 04:53:04 sorry, just blindly retyped, didn't pay attention to "uid" Jul 27 04:53:21 I mean, did you pty process exec /bin/login so it can't be ctrl-c and return to root shell Jul 27 04:53:30 tmzt: yes Jul 27 04:53:38 tmzt: there is no shell under it Jul 27 04:53:52 if your going to do that, drop privs and use a user account maybe Jul 27 04:54:09 anyone who wants root can sudo Jul 27 04:54:17 off topic: I don't like the whole "donationware" thing, it's just another word for shareware... Jul 27 04:54:19 tmzt: I have no objection to root login if they want Jul 27 04:54:33 it prompts for login name of course so they can choose Jul 27 04:54:36 h2d2: donations should have no strings attached. Jul 27 04:54:53 if there are strings attached, it's a payment, not a donation. Jul 27 04:54:54 yes, I don't like aonic's $10 donation to get security features deal Jul 27 04:55:03 to My Tether Jul 27 04:55:05 h2d2: not compulsery, but I don't like it when worded as a license Jul 27 04:55:15 donation is a gift without expecting anything in return. Jul 27 04:55:43 woot, i totally messed up my messaging app! Jul 27 04:55:55 I've got no problem with people making cash from apps. Just be up front about it. Jul 27 04:55:58 I don't mind people charging for open source... but let's not call it "donation" if you put a fixed amount to it and that's the way to get newer versions. Jul 27 04:56:11 is there a root password? Jul 27 04:56:20 exactl Jul 27 04:56:22 tmzt: not by default. Jul 27 04:56:37 so they type root? Jul 27 04:56:38 but mine is set to 'virtura' Jul 27 04:56:50 I thought we discussed this weeks ago Jul 27 04:57:02 root should random md5 Jul 27 04:57:13 no ssh root without key Jul 27 04:57:17 etc. Jul 27 04:58:06 no need for random md5, just put a * there Jul 27 04:58:19 ah Jul 27 04:58:30 that works for openssh? Jul 27 04:58:55 it makes a password you can never crypt to, don't think it affects any other aspects of the account but not positive Jul 27 04:59:31 having a really hard time with my password, changing to alpha only Jul 27 04:59:36 hah.. good thing that d2globalinc guy had all the 1.1 original files, i forgot to backup myself :) Jul 27 04:59:51 ugh, we are the death of security. Jul 27 05:00:11 ? Jul 27 05:00:19 well people can always log into an unprivileged account Jul 27 05:00:32 with an easier to type password... Jul 27 05:00:46 tmzt: second complaint of passwords being to hard to enter fast enough so people considering making their root passwords easy Jul 27 05:00:46 we can't fix luna Jul 27 05:01:17 but we can make webint stuff consisten and hopefully secure Jul 27 05:01:22 change we change the timeout... Jul 27 05:01:30 I mean, can't we...? Jul 27 05:01:51 could you force changing user password when first starting term? Jul 27 05:01:58 LOGIN_TIMEOUT is a define Jul 27 05:02:01 compile time Jul 27 05:02:03 des -- my root password is z -- simplest key to hit reliably. Jul 27 05:02:10 or standardize uid or something Jul 27 05:02:23 Rick__: lo, Jul 27 05:02:28 s/,/l/ Jul 27 05:02:28 destinal meant: Rick__: lol Jul 27 05:02:47 since pty is root, it can seteuid any user Jul 27 05:02:51 Rick if you type your password here, all we are gonna see are ****** Jul 27 05:03:04 if we say its 500 or 100 or whatever Jul 27 05:03:13 since I don't think anyone is going to run an auto-password script on my pre, I doubt it's horrifically insecure. Jul 27 05:03:18 sudo becomes the user's problem Jul 27 05:03:25 Rick__: unless you let them run a mojo app that does it Jul 27 05:03:30 same as osx and ubuntu Jul 27 05:03:38 or you run their mojo app that does it Jul 27 05:03:58 destinal evil apps will come Jul 27 05:04:02 you and I both know that Jul 27 05:04:07 it's the price of the open platform Jul 27 05:04:20 Rick__: right, but I don't want terminal to be the way they get to the underlying OS Jul 27 05:04:48 and the effective defense is to let user make choices and own Sc Jul 27 05:04:52 but, can all apps talk to other apps? Jul 27 05:04:53 security Jul 27 05:05:03 I think that would be a security issue in itself... Jul 27 05:05:05 tmzt: true Jul 27 05:05:08 with sensible defaults Jul 27 05:05:17 h2d2: plugins can't at this point define what app can embed them Jul 27 05:05:29 h2d2: this is different than mojo app to mojo app Jul 27 05:05:36 that's a security issue to me Jul 27 05:05:42 you could do challenge/response Jul 27 05:06:00 tmzt: set a matched random key on installation? Jul 27 05:06:02 wouldn't be easy but better than nothing Jul 27 05:06:06 yes Jul 27 05:06:13 yeah I'm starting to think maybe that's better Jul 27 05:06:15 or check the caller's md5 Jul 27 05:06:24 same thing Jul 27 05:06:28 h2d2: I did a search for PNGs instead and found it in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/images/background.png Jul 27 05:06:36 but js can modify Jul 27 05:06:38 h2d2: not really, can't be sure about the md5 since you don't know who embeds you Jul 27 05:06:42 or be modified Jul 27 05:06:44 but a shared key will wokr Jul 27 05:06:45 work Jul 27 05:06:47 and there's xss Jul 27 05:06:50 chris: awesome... Jul 27 05:06:52 Hrm, that's strange. Jul 27 05:06:56 Why doesn't webos use shadow passwords? Jul 27 05:07:04 tmzt: we will _not_ have xss Jul 27 05:07:08 not in this app Jul 27 05:07:08 it doesn't Jul 27 05:07:11 good Jul 27 05:07:16 Or PAM, for that matter. Jul 27 05:07:36 I mean an alternative app could be modified Jul 27 05:07:41 quotemstr_: it doesn't matter what mechanism is used Jul 27 05:07:49 quotemstr_: it doesn't have any users with passwords Jul 27 05:07:50 after telling us it's md5 Jul 27 05:08:07 tmzt: Don't use MD5. Jul 27 05:08:13 quotemstr_: the point is we have to authenticate app or user and we chose user Jul 27 05:08:20 right Jul 27 05:08:22 I think we have to reconsider and go app Jul 27 05:08:44 destinal -- your plugin knows what app's calling it right? Jul 27 05:08:46 but all mojo apps have fs access? Jul 27 05:08:49 Rick__: no Jul 27 05:09:00 destinal: You can authenticate applications trivially by giving each one a separate user. Jul 27 05:09:06 is the browser download patch broken with the 1.1 update? Jul 27 05:09:16 quotemstr_: check into NPAPI first :) Jul 27 05:09:25 the android approach Jul 27 05:09:42 destinal: Yeah, it's a plugin API. Jul 27 05:09:46 but won't work on webos Jul 27 05:09:55 luna is one process Jul 27 05:09:57 destinal: Unless NPAPI is different from the NPAPI I looked into for Mozilla. Jul 27 05:10:12 destinal can the plugin call a luna function and get the app and scene with focus? Jul 27 05:10:13 quotemstr_: yeah, your plugin doesn't run as a different user than the browser Jul 27 05:10:30 destinal: Well, there's mozplugger. :-) But I see your point. Jul 27 05:10:31 and the browser runs as root Jul 27 05:10:32 and browser runs as root Jul 27 05:10:46 but regardless we need root for this plugin Jul 27 05:10:49 what other caller variables can a plugin see... Jul 27 05:10:55 mozplugger needs X Jul 27 05:11:27 we need to assume a user id, root's or some other user's. we're doing that with login at the moment Jul 27 05:11:34 'cause if you can get the app and scene with focus, then you could go get the hash of that app, and check that it's the right one. Jul 27 05:11:49 and always distribute plugins and frontends in pairs. Jul 27 05:11:57 tmzt: Right, but the concept would apply. So webos uses JS-level sandboxes to isolate applications from each other. I imagine there's no trivial overwrite-the-default-String-object attack. Jul 27 05:12:31 Rick__: yeah, if you could, but I don't think it's in the API, and we can't call arbitrary luna functions, at least not yet, and it may never be a good idea Jul 27 05:12:43 what if there was a transitional user? Jul 27 05:12:59 it boils down to only embedding in the proper app Jul 27 05:13:01 with only access to a home in /var Jul 27 05:13:08 none of the user discussion matters for this problem Jul 27 05:13:20 yeah Jul 27 05:13:24 true Jul 27 05:14:08 yeah it's not in the api at all Jul 27 05:14:52 what about cookies? Jul 27 05:14:57 Rick__: can mojo read in arbitrary text files on the filesystem? I know you were working on that Jul 27 05:15:05 geist, how was your weekend ? i saw you wrote a novaterm for windows Jul 27 05:15:15 and I'm sure the seperation is of js contexts Jul 27 05:15:26 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194825-filecoaster-first-pre-gui-downloader-installer-12.html#post1782149 Jul 27 05:15:31 mojo can read arbitrary text files in the folder the app is installed in, and in /media/internal using ajax.request Jul 27 05:15:37 ok, good Jul 27 05:15:48 then our key should be safe from apps Jul 27 05:15:49 ok Jul 27 05:15:58 bpadalino: not too bad, took it easy mostly Jul 27 05:16:04 so if it canocalizes paths it's good Jul 27 05:16:15 whats the easiest way to parse an xml file Jul 27 05:16:25 dom? Jul 27 05:16:27 geist, always nice using the weekend to relax - i'm sure life at palm is pretty hectic still Jul 27 05:16:28 sax? Jul 27 05:16:29 CorpX have the server send it as a json. Jul 27 05:16:31 can sort of newbies ask questions? First time here and don't want to break any traditions. Jul 27 05:16:33 :-) Jul 27 05:16:45 talsair we were all newbies a few weeks ago Jul 27 05:16:49 how do i know if the server can send it as a json Jul 27 05:16:50 except geist Jul 27 05:16:53 lol Jul 27 05:16:59 and eval or is there a safer way? Jul 27 05:16:59 im a noob Jul 27 05:17:02 http://www.texassports.com/headline-rss.xml thats teh feed Jul 27 05:17:02 you don't CorpX that was humor Jul 27 05:17:08 lol Jul 27 05:17:15 h2d2: I just discovered that the wallpapers can't be PNGs. I converted it to a JPG and it worked Jul 27 05:17:24 so you want rss anyway Jul 27 05:17:30 are you sure? Jul 27 05:17:34 oh that reminds me, need to toss up the source for that novaterm thing Jul 27 05:17:45 that would be most kind. Jul 27 05:17:48 yeah - kind of weird the backgrounds cant be pngs ... since luna definitely supports painting backgrounds using pngs Jul 27 05:17:57 then maybe you can debug what the deal is with 64bit Jul 27 05:18:05 geist, planning on hosting it at your git repo ? Jul 27 05:18:22 Templarian thinks it's just an ignorable exception. Jul 27 05:18:34 nah, figured i'd just toss up a tarball, someone else can go figure out what to do with it Jul 27 05:18:43 is there a good place i can read about using dom to parse stuff Jul 27 05:18:44 probably use it as an inspiration than anything else Jul 27 05:18:46 it's pretty grody Jul 27 05:18:47 yes. oddly, we can figure that out. Jul 27 05:19:03 CorpX the dom will not help you parse an xml feed. Jul 27 05:19:13 Is there anything that prevents an application from loading any available NPAPI plugin? Jul 27 05:19:13 how is the setup process using it as an background then? Jul 27 05:19:20 well, what could? Jul 27 05:19:20 pre has a lot of 64 byte muxes Jul 27 05:19:27 quotemstr_: no Jul 27 05:19:30 has anyone verified the browser download patch for 1.1? Jul 27 05:19:31 mrvc: what keys are being used as arrows? Jul 27 05:19:37 haven't even looked at the msm yet Jul 27 05:19:37 that's weird, with all their talk of supporting HTML5 and not allowing PNGs for backgournd Jul 27 05:19:45 keep in mind it has some external code in it, but as far as i can tell the guy put no copyright on it Jul 27 05:19:56 FYI: file coaster has been updated to 1.0.1 in preware.org Jul 27 05:20:00 can you cite a source for us so we can research it? Jul 27 05:20:01 Zuchmir2: gesture-area hold plus 2/4/6/8 Jul 27 05:20:27 i mean, is there something i can load the feed into that'll let me access stuff sequentially Jul 27 05:20:52 why not dom? Jul 27 05:20:56 yeah Jul 27 05:21:00 http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.src.zip Jul 27 05:21:03 knock yourself out Jul 27 05:21:06 there must be a JS out there to parse XML Jul 27 05:21:07 comes with no warranty Jul 27 05:21:20 that sounds cool, is it easy to use? Jul 27 05:21:21 and put it in to an array Jul 27 05:21:21 CorpX http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1664 Jul 27 05:21:50 these are #webos questions anyway Jul 27 05:21:58 the data sample app has all that stuff. Jul 27 05:22:14 ok cool Jul 27 05:22:14 geist, nice Jul 27 05:22:15 perfect Jul 27 05:22:16 thanks Jul 27 05:22:36 the vt100 control i got from http://www.codeproject.com/KB/IP/terminalcontrol.aspx Jul 27 05:23:06 .net? Jul 27 05:23:39 driver use can't be copyrighted.. right? Jul 27 05:23:45 as long as it's available Jul 27 05:23:50 ? Jul 27 05:24:00 like the api? Jul 27 05:24:08 it's the vt100 emulator that is being used in the project Jul 27 05:24:09 like novacom Jul 27 05:24:15 not the novacom stuff Jul 27 05:24:38 right Jul 27 05:24:43 stuff on codeproject is likely not either Jul 27 05:24:56 putty was in the pdf Jul 27 05:25:14 "This article has no explicit license attached to it but may contain usage terms in the article text or the download files themselves." Jul 27 05:25:18 that's from codeproject Jul 27 05:25:50 rwhitby: I'm sure someone can deal with rewriting the vt100 code, really.. Jul 27 05:27:19 anybody ever see the ipkg-opt cron stop working after disabling dev mode. I was doing the wallpaper switcher thing and it was working beautifully. Now I can't get it to start up again. Jul 27 05:27:20 rwhitby -- the vt100 parts are from sourceforge..... Jul 27 05:27:43 oh Jul 27 05:27:47 not cp? Jul 27 05:28:12 might be dual posted Jul 27 05:28:13 yay, got my message forwarding mod applied that forwards attachments too :) Jul 27 05:28:42 Decimation: is it working for you? Jul 27 05:28:42 I don't like the forwarding setup, too many false clicks Jul 27 05:28:48 ? Jul 27 05:28:59 if you READ the codeproject page, the codeproject page explainst that all she did was paste a vt100 library from sourceforge -- which she linked to, into an ssh library from somwhere else. Jul 27 05:29:01 well, i added all code, and replaced that one handlemessagetap function or whatever Jul 27 05:29:11 I'm still trying to figure out how to get the text /and/ attachment to forward Jul 27 05:29:11 message forwarding works fine, but i havent recieved an attachment yet Jul 27 05:29:15 so im not sure if that actually works Jul 27 05:29:19 so, I went there, and sure enough dot for tittle exactly the code geist used. Jul 27 05:29:20 http://sourceforge.net/projects/ackterm/ Jul 27 05:29:36 but when a message failed to send, it opened the resend dialog when clicked instead of forwarding dialog Jul 27 05:29:47 as if palm made it themselves :) Jul 27 05:29:57 cool Jul 27 05:30:03 could you send me a picture or something to see if it works jackie? Jul 27 05:30:08 i have no problem giving my number out. Jul 27 05:30:11 sure Jul 27 05:30:31 586-944-4726 Jul 27 05:30:32 or you can send yourself one :) Jul 27 05:30:38 Rick_: i ran the sample code and replace the feed with mine, but its not displaying result.attributes[0].nodeValue; Jul 27 05:30:40 send a picture or anything :) Jul 27 05:32:18 nm Jul 27 05:32:21 what does this do this.path = "/artist/opml-feeds/opml-feed"; Jul 27 05:32:49 JackieRipper: it works :) Jul 27 05:32:50 CorpX: you need to lookup attributes by name Jul 27 05:32:57 cool Jul 27 05:32:59 the order can be different Jul 27 05:33:04 now I'm really off to bed Jul 27 05:33:14 lol, i should be too Jul 27 05:33:22 have to be up in 4 and a half hours :) Jul 27 05:33:25 quick question..before updating to 1.1, i flashed my pre to start from scratch. i used the rooting scripts instead of manual and the ssh is acting weird. i had no problem using putty before 1.1 but now i cant get wifi to work and get time out errors. the evdo works fine. anyone have any suggestions? Jul 27 05:33:47 i verified the eth0 and everything is good as far as i can tell Jul 27 05:34:04 ah nm Jul 27 05:34:05 im a noob Jul 27 05:37:27 question, could we have done what Palm did to re-enable iTunes sync? Jul 27 05:37:57 spoof the usb vendor id? Jul 27 05:38:03 yes Jul 27 05:39:50 and I know iTunes support isn't a priority here Jul 27 05:39:56 not that I use it either Jul 27 05:40:59 im not that leet Jul 27 05:41:07 i dont even know how to parse an rss feed Jul 27 05:41:13 Should I be able to ping my phone on its ppp0 address? Jul 27 05:42:57 has anyone had issues with logging into their pre since 1.1? Jul 27 05:44:01 hey Jul 27 05:45:23 I don't think ppp0 responds on ping Jul 27 05:45:29 or may be it does Jul 27 05:45:33 I don't recall Jul 27 05:45:43 Well, I can't ssh into it at that address either, and there's no firewall rule restricting it. Jul 27 05:45:57 it does Jul 27 05:46:04 I just pinged Jul 27 05:46:25 I can Jul 27 05:46:33 I have dyndns setup Jul 27 05:47:01 hah, this development is so much more exciting than what was happening with my old phone... lg-dare.net :P Jul 27 05:47:18 alright I'm out... gotta wake up at 6 to make it to work on time Jul 27 05:47:28 ciao Jul 27 05:47:31 Night Jul 27 05:47:56 YES! Jul 27 05:47:58 i just parsed this feed Jul 27 05:48:00 yay! Jul 27 05:55:25 foo.js???? Jul 27 05:55:37 more like .. foo.js!!!! Jul 27 05:57:17 ok so is that somethign i need to install or what to run this "patch foo.js < patch" Jul 27 05:57:59 trying to do number 7 Jul 27 05:58:01 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 27 05:58:10 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 27 06:03:37 2009 Jul 27 06:04:47 foo.js!!!! Jul 27 06:04:52 foo.js! Jul 27 06:05:27 http://pastebin.com/m31d0fbbc Jul 27 06:05:29 c a l m Jul 27 06:05:30 d o w n Jul 27 06:05:35 Why would I see that very strange pattern of ping responses? Jul 27 06:06:57 im sorry Jul 27 06:07:46 wchriseg wait one. I've never looked at that page. Jul 27 06:07:53 why are you wanting to bypass activation anyway? Jul 27 06:08:29 i am moving phone that have never been activated on sprint and will be going to metropcs and cricket Jul 27 06:08:35 ok Jul 27 06:08:49 wchriseg the foo.js line in step 7 is an example. Jul 27 06:09:09 you are then to patch the two specific files listed in the next two bits Jul 27 06:09:16 foo is a common term used in computerese for "somehting" Jul 27 06:09:28 hmm ok Jul 27 06:10:00 you will see commands like "so, you have to insert foo and it gets converted to bar." knowing full well that those are synonyms for "something" and "something else." Jul 27 06:10:44 is there any sample code that'll show me how to keep the same navigational header in all my scenes Jul 27 06:10:54 in this case, you're going to patch first-use-util and account-service Jul 27 06:10:59 does that make more sense now? Jul 27 06:11:14 nope i am so lost now Jul 27 06:11:16 CorpX you can pass a parameter to a scene when you push it. Jul 27 06:11:26 wchriseg one moment Jul 27 06:11:31 ok thank you Jul 27 06:11:56 CorpX you can pass a scene a parameter just like you can pass a function a parameter. Jul 27 06:12:06 mm Jul 27 06:12:08 okay Jul 27 06:12:10 so you can pushscene(foo,"header text" Jul 27 06:12:22 but the header is going to have some buttons Jul 27 06:12:56 and then the first function at the very very top of the scene assistant add "incomingtext" as a parameter of the function(incomingtext) bit and then stuff it into a variable or a property of the scene. Jul 27 06:12:57 ill have 3 scenes and the links in the header let u switch between them Jul 27 06:13:02 nodnod Jul 27 06:13:12 ok, wchriseg back to you Jul 27 06:13:16 ok Jul 27 06:13:27 :) Jul 27 06:14:11 immediately below the foo line that was bothering you so much, there is a block of code. Jul 27 06:14:12 right? Jul 27 06:14:22 yes Jul 27 06:14:57 it suggests that you need to edit the firstuse-util.js file. Jul 27 06:15:20 and that after line 95, you want to add a line 96 that says Jul 27 06:15:22 so i can open the file and edit in like a editor??? Jul 27 06:15:22 {label: $L('Enable WiFi'), command: 'peef-hack-mode'}, Jul 27 06:15:24 should i use images for the links or just buttons Jul 27 06:15:31 CorpX up to you Jul 27 06:15:44 could i make some sort of a "push effect" for images somehow Jul 27 06:16:04 i guess i could add border ? Jul 27 06:16:11 Rick_: hey Jul 27 06:16:12 and then that after line 105 you should add lines which will NOW become 107 and 108 (because 105 became 106 when you added line 96) with the two bits of code there. Jul 27 06:16:39 wchriseg -- you do not put in the > symbols, just the lines. The > implies insert this.... Jul 27 06:17:06 now, if you saved these code bits to a file, you could use them to have the computer edit the file FOR YOU. Jul 27 06:18:07 that's called using a patch. So, if you saved the first code bit as a file patch1 you could then type patch /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/firstuse.js < patch1 Jul 27 06:18:12 or you can do it by hand. Jul 27 06:18:26 wchriseg does it make more sense now? Jul 27 06:18:30 anyway to run it in termanal Jul 27 06:18:43 only by typing them into the file Jul 27 06:18:54 and you'll have to know how to run an editor on the linux. Jul 27 06:19:47 if i upload the files to filedropper can you edit them Jul 27 06:19:49 wchriseg do you have any geekish friends? Jul 27 06:19:50 i am so lost Jul 27 06:19:51 Zuchmir2, mrvc: are you guys happy with the code as it is, regarding stability, etc? I'll have to hold back my mojo UI changes for tomorrow but I think I know how to do multiple cards now. Jul 27 06:20:01 i am the geekiest Jul 27 06:20:36 I'm so sorry wchriseg if I could reach through and do it for you I would help, but this requires knowing a bit more computerism than you have. Jul 27 06:20:52 where in the world are you wchriseg? Jul 27 06:20:54 Is there a way to do | in terminal Jul 27 06:20:57 Zuchmir2, mrvc: if it's good as it is we should push another release, since there should be serious performance and functionality improvements and I think people will want it Jul 27 06:21:02 yes there is. Jul 27 06:21:15 Eguy: orange + period Jul 27 06:21:20 Eguy: it's on the wiki :P Jul 27 06:21:20 ok hold on Jul 27 06:21:28 ok Jul 27 06:21:46 destinal, i'm ok w/going forward, there are lots of imrovments Jul 27 06:22:05 Thanks :P Jul 27 06:22:08 go for it. Be brave! Publish early! Publish often! Jul 27 06:22:42 so can i copy all the code and save it as a patch file i can run it like this right patch /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.firstuse/app/controllers/firstuse-util.js Jul 27 06:22:42 < patch Jul 27 06:22:53 Zuchmir2: kk sounds good Jul 27 06:23:04 yes Jul 27 06:23:11 for one of the TWO patches you have. Jul 27 06:23:30 and then, similarly for the other one. Jul 27 06:23:47 ok so to make a patch file i just copy all of the code then save it in like notepad as filename "patch" Jul 27 06:24:14 yes Jul 27 06:24:19 but you have to get it onto the pre. Jul 27 06:24:30 and save in the same area as the js file right Jul 27 06:24:49 save it anywhere as long as you know where it is and can type the path to it. Jul 27 06:25:01 ok let me try this Jul 27 06:25:07 good luck sir. Jul 27 06:25:09 I'm off to bed Jul 27 06:25:23 ok thak you Jul 27 06:25:30 good luck Jul 27 06:25:58 hey, anyone working on the termplugin here? Jul 27 06:26:07 epv: a few of us, yeah Jul 27 06:26:24 i was just trying to play around and wondering if i should be able to build it successfully with the cs08q1armel tools Jul 27 06:26:43 seems to crash the browser with my builds, but works fine wih the ones from the ipk Jul 27 06:26:58 epv: I believe that's what is being used to build it for the ipk's now Jul 27 06:27:14 a couple of us build it on native g++ on the pre as well Jul 27 06:27:16 ok. i'm probably breaking something else then. :) Jul 27 06:27:20 haha yay. Jul 27 06:27:25 i suppose that's worth a try too Jul 27 06:27:31 Is it normal to see prcm_check_power_domain_status timeout messages in the kernel log? Jul 27 06:28:27 epv: have you tried rebooting? Jul 27 06:28:53 epv: segfaults commonly occur on the pre when overwriting browser plugins because they're already loaded by Luna Jul 27 06:29:04 yes, i figured it'd be necessary because it'd be preloaded anyway. Jul 27 06:29:13 if you restart luna or reboot that should avoid it Jul 27 06:29:22 epv: can you try something? Jul 27 06:29:25 sure Jul 27 06:29:44 epv: ssh into your pre and run: initctl stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr Jul 27 06:29:56 oh also this is from the git tip so i may be building nonworking source anyway :) Jul 27 06:30:10 i should try the same rev that the ipk was built from first, i guess Jul 27 06:30:12 epv: if so we need to know before we push a new release :) Jul 27 06:30:44 haha ok. Jul 27 06:30:57 okay guys, i have to be up in 3 and a half hours, time to sleep :) Jul 27 06:31:00 epv: anyway to try to figure out the crash run that and that will cause Luna to be stopped and then run foreground on your terminal Jul 27 06:31:02 goodnight everyone Jul 27 06:31:13 epv: you'll get a lot of debug info on stderr Jul 27 06:31:39 ohhh good idea, i adn't thought of that Jul 27 06:32:02 we've added a bunch of stderr logging to the plugin as well so you *should* be able to see where it's dying Jul 27 06:32:27 ok.. let's see Jul 27 06:32:39 Where is it on the wiki destinal? Jul 27 06:33:19 Eguy: apparently not in the current entry -- that's odd Jul 27 06:33:21 Eguy: sorry Jul 27 06:33:35 * destinal checks history Jul 27 06:34:17 Eguy: nope, looks like my mistake. good question! :) Jul 27 06:34:48 :P Jul 27 06:35:04 sometimes with lack of sleep you can misremember things you started to do with actually having been done Jul 27 06:35:58 epv: at least now you can see what Luna does while it's taking forever to start Jul 27 06:36:15 yeah, all 41 seconds of it.. Jul 27 06:36:50 btw i assume restarting luna restarts the browser too so the new plugin will be loaded? Jul 27 06:37:18 yes Jul 27 06:37:30 Luna is the browser, basically Jul 27 06:37:41 ok. Jul 27 06:38:58 a Jul 27 06:39:33 ok, as expected, it runs fine now and I can't reproduce the crash. :) Jul 27 06:39:46 heh Jul 27 06:40:21 it's actually looking great so far, the scrolling stuff is good news Jul 27 06:40:52 epv: special edition green screen version? :) Jul 27 06:40:58 hehe yeah. :) Jul 27 06:41:11 we're going to make default color configurable, maybe tomorrow though Jul 27 06:41:27 things are still a little weird in screen sessions which is what i was originally going to look at Jul 27 06:41:38 how so? Jul 27 06:42:14 epv: the reason the screen is green for the moment has to do with the fact that ANSI color should now work Jul 27 06:42:30 so if you get a color ls or something else cool, check it out Jul 27 06:44:25 oh yeah, it's pretty.. i hate colorls, but it's nice to have the possiblilty Jul 27 06:44:54 i think there was some case where it wraps lines differently from how screen expects the lines to be wrapped.. let me see if i can be specific Jul 27 06:46:36 has the terminal app been released yet? Jul 27 06:46:41 epv: if you can get a reproducible series of events, that's even better Jul 27 06:46:46 of course. Jul 27 06:47:05 james_: we first released terminal some days ago Jul 27 06:47:18 is it on precentral? Jul 27 06:47:33 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 27 06:47:44 thanks Jul 27 06:47:50 it uses a plugin so best way to install it is to load up the preware ipk feed Jul 27 06:49:30 hmm ok so ircii just chops lines when it gets SIGWINCH and the new size is narrower.. so that's not a prob with the pre terminal Jul 27 06:49:46 maybe it's good now Jul 27 06:50:59 epv: if escape sequence rendering is good enough to run an (n)curses based irc client, that's great Jul 27 06:51:12 if stable especially Jul 27 06:51:18 oh yeah certainly. well, even running screen is a big step Jul 27 06:51:46 destinal, thanks it's cool Jul 27 06:51:49 epv: do you notice performance differences with this release also? Jul 27 06:51:49 and of course once it runs screen well, anything you run under screen sees a very complete emulation Jul 27 06:51:58 well, will be a release in the next couple hours :) Jul 27 06:52:38 epv: *nods* Jul 27 06:53:02 screen drawing was optimized quite a bit this time around by some stuff mrvc added to it today. Jul 27 06:53:10 working fantastic destinal, just installed the new my tether with it Jul 27 06:53:15 it does seem to scroll respectably... it was painful in the first release Jul 27 06:53:25 mostly just because it didn't scroll, but just ran off the "bottom" Jul 27 06:53:34 epv: there's still a ways to go to improve, but yeah, usability is good Jul 27 06:53:42 yeah it's perfectly fine to use Jul 27 06:54:00 mainly we've got to add keyboard stuff Jul 27 06:54:03 i'm mostly on icb and it's very very usable for that Jul 27 06:54:07 epv: oh, can you test arrow keys? Jul 27 06:54:20 hold down your finger on the gesture area so the led lights up Jul 27 06:54:33 and use 2, 4, 6, 8 (ala numpad) for arrow Jul 27 06:55:53 i get no arrow key action - it sends r, c, d, g (or 2, 4, 6, 8 if shifted) Jul 27 06:56:07 the led does light, though Jul 27 06:56:09 hmmm Jul 27 06:56:30 ^P, ^N etc work as expected Jul 27 06:56:30 and your clone is up to date? Jul 27 06:56:40 i'll pull again to make sure, but i believe so Jul 27 06:57:08 oh do i need to update the webapp too ? Jul 27 06:57:39 no, the mojo side didn't change for this piece Jul 27 06:57:42 yeah it's up to date, all i just got was the update to appinfo.json Jul 27 06:57:50 *nods* Jul 27 06:57:52 hmm Jul 27 06:58:06 try again with just tapping gesture area Jul 27 06:58:22 ok. Jul 27 06:58:25 once, then one of the keys, Jul 27 06:58:43 and double-tap should theoretically do a lock Jul 27 06:58:51 not working here either dest Jul 27 06:59:22 ok im back anyone know how to get the md5sums Jul 27 06:59:33 wchriseg: for which? Jul 27 06:59:35 for the pre activation bypass files Jul 27 06:59:47 destinal: this is "gesture_hold_state" ? Jul 27 06:59:47 I think you just run md5sum Jul 27 06:59:51 epv: yes Jul 27 06:59:56 ok Jul 27 06:59:58 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Bypassing_Activation number 8 Jul 27 07:00:18 epv: brand new, apparently not working quite right Jul 27 07:00:20 let me switch back to running LunaSysMgr from a terminal Jul 27 07:00:33 so i can see the key events or whatever gets logged Jul 27 07:01:12 epv: thanks. we'll push a release anyway since it's stable but it's not as cool as i was hoping for. Jul 27 07:05:16 unless gesture_hold_state is some sort of extern, the only code i see in the source is the bit at the top of KeyManager::KeyPressed where it rotates through 3 states on tap Jul 27 07:05:24 nothing seems to check the state anywhere else Jul 27 07:05:36 oh maybe the changes aren't checked in yet? Jul 27 07:06:03 epv: yeah, that was mrvc's push, maybe it has not been committed after all yet (I thought it had been) Jul 27 07:06:10 ok Jul 27 07:06:47 at any rate it certainly works well enough to rate a release even without it Jul 27 07:07:25 epv: if you have any ideas on improvements, let us know, we're trying to focus on what will make the terminal more useful / usable Jul 27 07:07:33 destinal: hey, still trying to get gesture-v, etc. to work Jul 27 07:07:37 mrvc: ah, ok Jul 27 07:08:14 destinal: pretty frustrating -- I'm going through the system js code Jul 27 07:08:36 mrvc: maybe it has to do with native textbox handling Jul 27 07:08:53 and the app has no control over it Jul 27 07:08:56 i'd just like to point out.. # of people on here? 140ish. number of poeple on palm's developer site? 4 Jul 27 07:09:00 destinal: yeah, I haven't proven that yet Jul 27 07:09:10 epv: wow Jul 27 07:09:28 now that you mention it the number has been a lot higher lately Jul 27 07:10:25 future things that might be nice... sacrificing a line at the top and/or bottom so you don't lose the characters in the rounded corners... Jul 27 07:10:37 possibly a tinier font for 80 col wide text Jul 27 07:11:10 epv: I'd like to get libfreetype going to replace the current xpm / bitmap font, but I've never used it before Jul 27 07:11:24 ooh yeah Jul 27 07:11:44 so it may take me a bit to figure it out unless someone jumps in who knows it Jul 27 07:12:28 epv: also if you find a bug or have an improvement, patches are always most welcome Jul 27 07:12:49 yah if nothing else it shouldn't be that bad to generate xpm fonts from freetype ones, maybe Jul 27 07:13:15 oh definitely... i didn't really look at it at all until today, but i'll try to figure out enough to be useful :) Jul 27 07:13:26 I figure it should be able to hand us arbitrary glyphs based on font size and face Jul 27 07:13:43 so zoom in and out gestures may even be possible Jul 27 07:13:51 hehe be careful, next people will start demanding unicode :) Jul 27 07:14:10 hehe Jul 27 07:14:29 we get the occasional requests for alt, meta, and hyper (!) Jul 27 07:14:38 emacs, what can I say Jul 27 07:14:55 hahaha Jul 27 07:15:04 it's a way of life Jul 27 07:15:20 i have nfi what hyper is, but yeah i was an emacs person once Jul 27 07:15:26 are there any homebrews out there that use non standard buttons Jul 27 07:15:29 so i know what to do Jul 27 07:15:33 epv: if you want to start contributing stuff, we'll just give you commit access. Jul 27 07:15:56 if you've cross-compiled it from HEAD already, you've passed the test :-) Jul 27 07:16:10 hahhaa. yeah well. let me read a bit first Jul 27 07:16:21 I do mostly embedded programming so this stuff is a bit out of my area Jul 27 07:16:29 all this fancy stuff like having an operating system under you! Jul 27 07:16:59 but cross compiling is no problem, my laptop has like 5 different cross compile environments on it Jul 27 07:19:05 CorpX: sorry I'm not big on the button styles stuff in mojo Jul 27 07:19:19 can be customized in css, so I'm told Jul 27 07:19:36 * rwhitby bbl Jul 27 07:20:18 im trying to do that Jul 27 07:20:21 but failing horribly Jul 27 07:20:22 lol Jul 27 07:20:43 epv: it's a weird channel, now that we have native binaries running we have everything from c++ code, to javascript, to dbus and java, packaging formats and app installation, and everything between Jul 27 07:21:02 yeah, it's a very odd mix! Jul 27 07:21:04 as well as the occasional OMAP or bootloader discussion Jul 27 07:21:13 heh. Jul 27 07:21:41 phew worked Jul 27 07:21:42 finally Jul 27 07:22:38 mrvc: do you mind working with rwhitby to coordinate yet another late night release? have to get some sleep to get to work in the morning. Jul 27 07:22:58 if the gesture hold stuff isn't quite there, we can just omit it and go ahead without Jul 27 07:23:54 fwiw it does log the sendKey* events for the gesture touch area Jul 27 07:24:04 assuming it's supposed to be keycode 231 Jul 27 07:24:09 epv: yes, 231 Jul 27 07:24:30 yeah i get a down and up for that Jul 27 07:25:32 epv: yeah, it was just that the code I expected to see hadn't been pushed yet Jul 27 07:25:48 actually you know the best thing would be cut/paste, and selecting/launching URLs in text :) Jul 27 07:26:00 i have no idea how cut buffers work in webos though Jul 27 07:26:07 me either Jul 27 07:26:29 but i bet launching a url would just be a matter of calling a luna://com.palm.browser somethingorother Jul 27 07:26:42 sure, *that* we can do Jul 27 07:27:10 the js code is already on the wiki I think Jul 27 07:27:24 yeah i think i tried it from the command line with luna-send a while back Jul 27 07:28:01 what do i need to put in the css file if i want my background to be somehting Jul 27 07:28:09 the images is in the /images folder Jul 27 07:28:21 background: url(../images/orangebutton.png); Jul 27 07:28:25 thats what i have now and its not working Jul 27 07:28:45 tried with one dot and that too failed Jul 27 07:28:59 CorpX: try with jpg just in case, I remember someone saying something about png issues Jul 27 07:29:11 not sure if that applies here or not Jul 27 07:32:08 oh well, have to get to bed for woerk in the morning Jul 27 07:32:10 ok i better get to sleep... Jul 27 07:32:19 night folks. Jul 27 07:33:33 no luck with jpgs either Jul 27 07:35:57 Pack the nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs folder into nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz (make sure that the tar's root contains the root file system, and not a folder containing the root file system). Jul 27 07:36:03 can someone help with that Jul 27 07:37:30 http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Packing_and_Unpacking_Files Jul 27 07:37:47 that will help thank you Jul 27 07:42:13 i cant sleep :/ Jul 27 07:43:38 is the ipkg-opt cron stable? I found out that it is spontaneously dying. no error messages in the sys log. It works for about 5 or 10 minutes than the process dies. Jul 27 08:01:04 is changing the background of a button even possible? Jul 27 08:14:12 * rwhitby notes that an announcement will be sent to webos-internals-announce@googlegroups.com soon about Terminal. Sign up at http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals-announce Jul 27 08:16:24 rwhitby: hello Jul 27 08:56:37 http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals-announce/browse_thread/thread/3af2f4d45787d622 Jul 27 08:56:58 yup, just got the email :) Jul 27 09:00:23 where can I download it? Jul 27 09:00:31 through terminal Jul 27 09:00:34 enter the following commands Jul 27 09:01:18 /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var update Jul 27 09:01:20 /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var list Jul 27 09:01:27 then, if you have a previous version installed Jul 27 09:01:29 just enter Jul 27 09:01:36 /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var upgrade Jul 27 09:01:39 if not Jul 27 09:01:52 /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install TERMINALNAMEHERE Jul 27 09:02:01 ok thanks Jul 27 09:02:06 for terminalnamehere, enter the name that showed up on the list of applications for the terminal Jul 27 09:03:34 is the orange button considered shift or control on the pre? Jul 27 09:03:56 shift Jul 27 09:04:01 ty Jul 27 09:04:02 err Jul 27 09:04:03 no Jul 27 09:04:08 control Jul 27 09:04:10 sorry Jul 27 09:04:12 :O Jul 27 09:04:15 no problem :) Jul 27 09:04:18 the shift key is an up arrow Jul 27 09:04:26 wow, it's late, night all Jul 27 09:04:32 lol, what time is it there? Jul 27 09:04:38 5am Jul 27 09:04:44 same here :/ Jul 27 09:04:47 have to be up in 2 hours Jul 27 09:04:50 cant go to bed now :P Jul 27 09:04:51 lol Jul 27 09:11:19 6:40pm here :-) Jul 27 09:11:50 I guess I should have put a link to the wiki page in the announcement email :-) Jul 27 09:13:25 it still shows as 0.1.3.... Jul 27 09:21:20 Decimation-zzz_: where? Jul 27 09:21:42 when i do like.... /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var update Jul 27 09:21:45 then the list command Jul 27 09:21:47 in my terminal Jul 27 09:22:26 org.webosinternals.terminal - 0.1.4 - Terminal Jul 27 09:22:27 x-webosinternals-termplugin - 0.1.4 - Terminal Service Plugin Jul 27 09:22:32 looks fine here Jul 27 09:22:58 did the update command download the new Packages.gz file correctly? Jul 27 09:24:31 hmm Jul 27 09:24:33 let me try again Jul 27 09:25:25 no sir Jul 27 09:25:27 didnt work right Jul 27 09:25:30 i get errors. Jul 27 09:31:10 got it fixed, no need to worry Jul 27 09:31:12 testing now. Jul 27 10:03:18 Decimation-zzz_: what was the problem? Jul 27 10:05:23 Hi Jul 27 10:06:20 Is anyone else hacking on the simulator version of WebOS, out of curiosity? Jul 27 10:08:23 vmlemon_: you mean the emulator in the SDK? Jul 27 10:08:44 rwhitby: i guess my file system had to be read/writable? Jul 27 10:08:53 Decimation-zzz_: yep Jul 27 10:09:05 ugh, i have to be up in an hour Jul 27 10:09:14 rwhitby: Yup Jul 27 10:09:14 have been up for about 26 hours Jul 27 10:09:17 you're early then! Jul 27 10:09:31 I've been playing with chrooting into it, last night Jul 27 10:09:32 and have to stay up for another 8 Jul 27 10:09:39 34 hours :| Jul 27 10:09:43 vmlemon_: for those of us not in the .us, it's the only option Jul 27 10:09:43 and almost got a few tools to nearly start runnin Jul 27 10:09:46 *running Jul 27 10:10:02 rwhitby: how come everyone is so secretive about their GUI installer projects for the pre Jul 27 10:10:08 (LunaSysMgr starts, although it bails out with D-BUS permission errors) Jul 27 10:10:28 Decimation-zzz_: cause they think they are the hotest developers since Bill Gates. Jul 27 10:10:37 Heh Jul 27 10:10:43 Same deal with the hypePhone folks Jul 27 10:10:54 rwhitby: lol, i just dont get it...if it was truely about helping the community, it would be open source. Jul 27 10:10:55 I blame the App Store. Jul 27 10:11:01 i guess these people arent about that. Jul 27 10:11:05 Decimation-zzz_: they're not about helping the community Jul 27 10:11:22 they're about helping themselves, which is fine with me, as long as they are up-front about it. Jul 27 10:11:26 "Must protect result of reverse-engineering..." Jul 27 10:11:33 but are they upfront about it? Jul 27 10:12:07 Decimation-zzz_: WebOS Quick Install and fileCoaster have been. Jul 27 10:12:24 they clearly stated their licensing up front. Jul 27 10:12:32 file coaster just runs a few terminal commands though, right? Jul 27 10:13:20 Decimation-zzz_: actually, it goes through the luna InstallNoVerify service. even easier. it if went through terminal it would be able to handle all homebrew apps instead of just those that don't require anything outside of /var Jul 27 10:13:33 (or /media/internal) Jul 27 10:14:00 then why not have it go through the terminal? Jul 27 10:14:29 neither of those two apps brought any new functionality to the table, they just made existing known stuff convenient for the non-developer (which is a worthwhile thing in itself) Jul 27 10:14:46 the question is, when will the real gui installer come Jul 27 10:14:51 the one that alerts of updates, etc. Jul 27 10:14:57 Decimation-zzz_: well, when you have a closed development model, you can't take advantage of the latest advances in the community Jul 27 10:15:37 and if it does come, or when it does, how hard will it be to manage all the apps in one spot, and make sure they are released directly to this app management system. Jul 27 10:16:04 most of the gui installer app developers haven't thought through the whole app lifecycle, including dependencies between apps and upgrades. Jul 27 10:16:21 major mistake imo. Jul 27 10:16:33 Decimation: the app management system should accept any number of standard ipkg feeds (like preware.org) Jul 27 10:16:58 so is there a standard way one has to set up a repo? Jul 27 10:17:17 where it will get the feed to download, install, check most updated version, ect. Jul 27 10:17:20 etc.* Jul 27 10:17:22 Decimation: yep, look at our preware repo, all the tools we use to set up the repo are there in public view Jul 27 10:17:43 ~repo Jul 27 10:17:44 The webos-internals source code repositories are hosted at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals and http://gitorious.org/webos-applications Jul 27 10:17:56 * rwhitby bbiab Jul 27 10:18:07 well, i have no problem with people taking their time on the GUI installer, but they might as well think it through, and plan for EVERYTHING Jul 27 10:18:22 if you aren't going to plan for everything, and still want to be a success, it must be open source. Jul 27 10:27:24 <_neural_> freenode problems? Jul 27 10:28:03 guess so, lol Jul 27 11:05:18 i see this Jul 27 11:05:20
#{numDownloaded} Jul 27 11:05:34 where is the numdownloaded part getting filled in at? Jul 27 11:05:44 ive looked through all the JS files but im not certain Jul 27 11:09:52 nm Jul 27 11:17:43 mornin CorpX :) Jul 27 11:43:49 anyone is using the battery patch? the one that shows percentage instead of battery icon? Jul 27 11:44:14 no but i may be able to answer a question or two about it? Jul 27 11:44:23 whatcha need en0x? Jul 27 11:45:52 well just asking... wanted to know if it works perfectly Jul 27 11:45:52 ohh no but i want that one :) Jul 27 11:46:20 gotta apply it Jul 27 11:46:34 is it in quilt or no? Jul 27 11:46:47 idk i found it on the forum Jul 27 11:46:59 can you link me? Jul 27 11:47:05 no :p Jul 27 12:01:10 org.webosinternals.services is this used for anything? Jul 27 12:01:21 en0x: not any more Jul 27 12:02:57 lol @ hotspitfire "Reboot immediately and pray it works. " Jul 27 12:03:43 s/hot/hop/ Jul 27 12:03:43 raeb meant: lol @ hopspitfire "Reboot immediately and pray it works. " Jul 27 12:03:45 rwhitby: thx Jul 27 12:24:43 does anyone knows where prepod saves podcasts? Jul 27 12:28:07 rwhitby: you any good with calling services? I am trying to get the device nduid and I have the methods all in place. The issue I am having is that the docs do not specify what the property name is for the returned objects. I tried response.nduid but that is returned as undefined. I checked the sample code and they keep dumping the object to json Jul 27 12:28:49 jcrawford: dunno - is it a dbus service? if so, have you tried dbus-monitor ? Jul 27 12:28:58 it's a palm service Jul 27 12:29:06 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1550#SystemProperties-Get Jul 27 12:29:14 not sure if it is dbus no idea what that is :D Jul 27 12:29:55 the response object in JSON looks like this Jul 27 12:30:40 {"com.palm.properties.nduid": "7cff64277b4a23ffff6f224fffff0e65ff6bff22"} Jul 27 12:39:21 hmm Jul 27 12:40:22 nice update for terminal byut I cant login as a regular user Jul 27 12:40:23 :( Jul 27 12:46:30 it loosk like webos services is used by led notification tweak Jul 27 13:08:21 en0x: org.webosinternals.services is a huge security hole Jul 27 13:08:37 i'm not saying it isnt Jul 27 13:08:46 i removed it anyway because I dont need it Jul 27 13:09:18 afaik webosinternals.services can access any part of system and execute any command right? Jul 27 13:09:26 rwhitby, feature request for terminal (or share with destinal)... the "bottom" status bar, could we have some kind of indicator which key is pressed like if sym was pressed (ctrl) or orange-space (for alt) think that'd be helpful for usability, not a huge issue though Jul 27 13:09:56 psykoz: destinal-zzz, mrvc or Zuchmir2 will see it here. Jul 27 13:10:54 anyway in the terminal i cannot login with my username and password Jul 27 13:11:13 morning Jul 27 13:33:01 Wow what a great morning laugh: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/195052-pre-virus.html#post1781846 Jul 27 13:34:40 LOL Jul 27 13:35:36 : Hahaha Jul 27 13:35:48 Hey, I'm pretty sure the Patch on Message Sound (if the code on that page is the same as the patch) won't work. They have an new check in 1.1 that checks to see if the display is on and if so they made a mod on how the banner is shown. Jul 27 13:37:16 could someone check compare they code on that page and the 1.1 code in that section in notification-assistant.js Jul 27 13:47:40 * thatdude is away: work Jul 27 13:50:58 bbl Jul 27 14:08:24 Anyone checking this out? Jul 27 14:09:00 cause I wouldn't recommend anyone running the patch until it's fixed Jul 27 14:10:42 DSouljah: have you updated the wiki page to warn people? Jul 27 14:17:49 I don't have an account Jul 27 14:18:56 but I also wanted someone to double check Jul 27 14:29:29 DSouljah: anyone can create an account on the new wiki Jul 27 14:32:22 Yeah, just did Jul 27 14:35:46 does anyone know if the Pre supports PGP in anyway? Jul 27 14:38:36 PuffTheMagic: ipkg-opt install gnupg Jul 27 14:38:57 i mean like through the mail interface Jul 27 14:39:07 like as a default feature Jul 27 14:40:13 asedeno_work: did you ever try putting OpenAFS on your Pre? Jul 27 14:51:14 <+rwhitby> ok I didn't have any code at hand while at work, but I did sum it up and put a warning in there! Jul 27 14:52:14 DSouljah: thx Jul 27 14:53:31 * stefan_schmidt is waiting patiently for the GSM Pre Jul 27 15:09:46 grrr what's castle's USBNET ip address? Jul 27 15:09:49 192.168.0.212 ? Jul 27 15:10:46 ah ha 202 Jul 27 15:19:09 summatusmentis: not yet. Jul 27 15:19:22 no presure, just curious Jul 27 15:19:45 has anybody compiled vpnc from palm's opensource website? Jul 27 16:05:26 does anyone know the command to type a pipe (|) in Terminal? Jul 27 16:09:36 copy and paste? lol Jul 27 16:10:36 heh I can't get anything to paste in Terminal =/ Jul 27 16:10:52 ok, i dont know, havent had time to play around with this yet Jul 27 16:11:02 hopefully someone else knows Jul 27 16:12:12 anybody know if the API currently includes a means to record audio from the microphone? Jul 27 16:17:35 i would assume and worst you could capture from /dev Jul 27 16:21:26 xcomp: "video and audio capture is not supported in the initial webOS products, but is inherently supported by the architecture." Jul 27 16:21:30 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1769 Jul 27 16:21:52 xcomp: which means, that, eventually mojo will have it, but right now, capture the right /dev/ device Jul 27 16:22:38 Just have to say: (ipkg -o /var upgrade)++ Jul 27 16:23:16 That's so hot. Jul 27 16:44:40 anyone here happen to have a rooted G1 that I can talk to in PM? (yes, I realize this is the webOS internals channel; I'm trying to get Android running on the Pre, and I had some questions about how it works in the real device) Jul 27 17:17:53 what's the other command for remount root rw (not mount but the script we were using before)? Jul 27 17:29:44 destinal: rootfs_open w Jul 27 17:30:07 s/w/-w/ Jul 27 17:30:08 raeb1 meant: destinal: rootfs_open -w Jul 27 17:30:53 when i download an attachment from email app Jul 27 17:31:01 where does attachment get downloaded to Jul 27 17:32:15 raeb1: thanks, since I didn't get a reply right away I just wget'd a wiki article that had the remount,rw line in it and grep|head|sh Jul 27 17:32:29 since I lacked a comma in the older version of the terminal I needed a workaround :) Jul 27 17:33:32 raeb: find . -type f -mtime 0? Jul 27 17:34:49 /var/luna/data/attachments Jul 27 17:34:50 sheesh Jul 27 17:34:55 thanks quotemstr_ Jul 27 17:35:19 No problem. Jul 27 17:38:07 raeb1: have you checked out arrow keys in the new terminal version? it is teh awesome ;) Jul 27 17:38:18 upupdowndownleftright Jul 27 17:38:36 About the only code better than that would be xyzzy. Jul 27 17:38:37 hold down finger on the gesture area and use 2,4,6,8 Jul 27 17:38:44 Though I suspect that's before most people's time. :-) Jul 27 17:39:05 quotemstr_: gradius and contra baybee Jul 27 17:39:24 you are in a twisty maze of passageways, all alike Jul 27 17:39:37 :-) Jul 27 17:39:56 colossal caverns Jul 27 17:39:59 or Jul 27 17:40:01 "adventure" Jul 27 17:40:01 hehe Jul 27 17:40:41 yeah adventure was before my time but a lot of the old zork games implemented it to say something snarky at least Jul 27 17:41:09 even today I find myself using it as a unique test string to find in program output Jul 27 17:41:53 Speaking of which, I'm hoping to get my webOS chops up to the point to get this working as an app: http://code.google.com/p/parchment/ Jul 27 17:42:22 lmorchard: you should be able to play a linux based z machine emulator in terminal also Jul 27 17:42:27 It mostly works in the browser, though the URL/search bar wants to intercept all the keystrokes Jul 27 17:42:42 * destinal checks optware Jul 27 17:42:45 well, yeah, but would be nicer as a card-based app Jul 27 17:42:48 destinal: im Jul 27 17:43:26 Card based app could play some z-machine games straight off the web too Jul 27 17:44:38 Waste the rest of your day here: http://parchment.toolness.com/ :) Jul 27 17:45:17 bzhou * r10502 optware/trunk/make/lsof.mk: lsof: 4.81 -> 4.82, use LDFLAGS for rpath Jul 27 17:45:20 alas looks like I need to update the terminal wiki entry, or I will burn in seven hells. Jul 27 17:45:37 may i ask a question? why on the wiki page nobody posts a patch file. they only post at which line what should have been changed Jul 27 17:46:03 heh Jul 27 17:46:09 easier to type that out then figure out how to get a diff ? Jul 27 17:46:43 but when you have the diff source you just copy it to a file and use patch command don't ya thing would be easier? Jul 27 17:46:51 sure Jul 27 17:46:55 however, even when i have a patch file Jul 27 17:47:00 i like to review it to see whats changing Jul 27 17:47:43 but for me personally i like to use patch and thats it than going to editor and finding the right line Jul 27 17:47:46 hmm Jul 27 17:48:04 yeah, specially when theres multiple changes Jul 27 17:48:34 optware/vpnc gives error (when trying to do cert mode): vpnc was built without openssl: Can't do hybrid or cert mode. Jul 27 17:49:12 i will try to make some patch files idk if admins will allow me to add it to wiki Jul 27 17:49:15 will check Jul 27 17:49:35 i duno why not, patch file contains same info as just plaintext on the wiki Jul 27 17:52:18 optware Jul 27 17:52:29 wrong window Jul 27 17:55:42 patches + quilt FTW Jul 27 17:58:16 * destinal saves new version of http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 27 17:58:24 now with 1.4 shininess Jul 27 17:58:38 s/1/0.1/ Jul 27 17:58:39 destinal meant: now with 0.1.4 shininess Jul 27 17:58:55 oooo Jul 27 17:59:23 wow, development moving fast on that thing. nice! Jul 27 17:59:25 gosh Jul 27 17:59:28 really would like to see Jul 27 17:59:32 press orange button to show overlay on screen Jul 27 17:59:35 with these buttons Jul 27 17:59:39 so i dont hafta memerize em Jul 27 17:59:54 kinda how the 'sym' button works elsewhere Jul 27 18:00:19 Rotating the pre will take the terminal to landscape mode. The keyboard will not rotate with you. Jul 27 18:00:22 rofl what does this mean Jul 27 18:00:30 it's a joke Jul 27 18:00:32 ok Jul 27 18:00:34 just making sure Jul 27 18:00:37 dont wanna bork my pre Jul 27 18:00:40 hehe Jul 27 18:00:56 physically trying to reorient your keyboard in relation to the screen WILL damage the pre Jul 27 18:01:01 I bet if you try hard enough, it'll rotate Jul 27 18:01:23 and you're complaining about oreo NOW Jul 27 18:01:23 You try first and take pictures :) Jul 27 18:02:13 That would've been a cool feature, had they been able to build it that way Jul 27 18:02:42 raeb1: regarding the symbol popup, we hope to do that with double-tap sym key Jul 27 18:02:49 ya ya Jul 27 18:02:56 do it Jul 27 18:02:56 now Jul 27 18:02:58 :D Jul 27 18:05:34 why is it all green Jul 27 18:06:08 raeb1: to announce color support. we meant to put in a default color selector in as well but ran out of time last night Jul 27 18:06:16 soo Jul 27 18:06:17 but color ls and other fun things should work now Jul 27 18:06:21 really Jul 27 18:06:39 you'll need to install a color-capable ls binary, but yeah Jul 27 18:08:09 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Use_%22ls%22_In_Color Jul 27 18:08:22 ty Jul 27 18:09:05 neat, color! Jul 27 18:09:37 raeb1: do you notice whether the terminal seems much faster? Jul 27 18:09:54 yeah still not the fastest Jul 27 18:09:55 but yeah Jul 27 18:09:58 its 1px too tall hehe Jul 27 18:10:00 usable now at least Jul 27 18:12:16 well Jul 27 18:12:19 it was usable before hehe Jul 27 18:12:27 just now its fancier Jul 27 18:12:33 s/us/more us/ Jul 27 18:12:33 destinal meant: more usable now at least Jul 27 18:13:04 s/usable/shiny/ Jul 27 18:13:05 destinal meant: shiny now at least Jul 27 18:13:15 haha Jul 27 18:14:19 s/s/$;s/i/1;/s/e/3/ Jul 27 18:14:38 * destinal fails (misformatting) Jul 27 18:15:21 wah wah wah Jul 27 18:16:04 just want to see how far the bot takes this concept. Jul 27 18:16:05 Huh, this seems odd: If I turn off my pre while ssh'd into it, powerd starts going nuts with wall messages "System going to sleep now" followed by "System woke up" Jul 27 18:16:06 s/s/$/;s/i/1/;s/e/3/;s/o/0/ Jul 27 18:16:25 lmorchard: it's doing that anyway Jul 27 18:16:30 lmorchard: you're just seeing it now Jul 27 18:16:38 That seems not quite right Jul 27 18:16:41 yah i see those bcast messages often, when not plugged into usb Jul 27 18:16:54 is that normal? or is the thing wasting the battery? Jul 27 18:17:01 that is powerd, Jul 27 18:17:14 you're just able to see it because you're running a local terminal Jul 27 18:17:37 Are there docs on powerd somewhere, by chance? Jul 27 18:19:27 lmorchard: I believe it's proprietary palm and I don't think they've published anything on it Jul 27 18:19:44 I could be wrong Jul 27 18:19:55 Ah, I see the com.palm.powerd package Jul 27 18:20:41 yay for colour term! Jul 27 18:22:20 i duno bout the double login deal Jul 27 18:22:30 i mean, my phone is already on, luna is running as a user Jul 27 18:22:37 why do i need to type in username n pword again in terminal Jul 27 18:23:14 raeb1: because terminal isn't the only app that can use termplugin, and stuffing keystrokes to a root shell via calls from javascript is _powerful_ Jul 27 18:23:33 so ? Jul 27 18:23:50 i'll be sure to review anything i install so it doesn't exploit this behavior in ways i dont wanna it to Jul 27 18:24:05 i suppose Jul 27 18:24:08 i could modify term plugin Jul 27 18:24:20 of course, but this is temporary anyway Jul 27 18:24:20 s/plugin/mojo app/ Jul 27 18:24:20 raeb1 meant: i could modify term mojo app Jul 27 18:24:28 to auto submit my root un/pw Jul 27 18:24:48 raeb1: we considered that option but it may be easier to just authenticate the app to the plugin Jul 27 18:24:57 create a preshared key on install Jul 27 18:25:41 then we don't have to worry about people not setting their root passwords, etc Jul 27 18:25:47 ooo Jul 27 18:26:15 first pre-based unix worm ahoy! Jul 27 18:26:23 lol Jul 27 18:26:53 lmorchard: hmmm, except how would it distribute itself? Jul 27 18:27:05 well, yeah Jul 27 18:27:13 ir proximity sensor Jul 27 18:27:13 more like first pre trojan Jul 27 18:27:18 raeb1: lol Jul 27 18:27:20 pre has to be RITE NEXT to another pre Jul 27 18:27:42 pre's first STD Jul 27 18:28:23 uh oh Jul 27 18:28:27 i threw away terminal card Jul 27 18:28:32 before i 'exit' Jul 27 18:28:51 do i have a process still running, or does it clean up after itself ? Jul 27 18:29:41 o lookit that Jul 27 18:29:42 it shure does Jul 27 18:30:09 Ironically, stuff like this makes my Pre feel more like my Mac than my iPod touch Jul 27 18:30:15 yes, that's a known issue (which we hopefully will have figured out today) Jul 27 18:30:21 uh Jul 27 18:30:26 already figured out? Jul 27 18:30:31 while running card i had a sh process Jul 27 18:30:37 when i threw the card away (without logging out) Jul 27 18:30:39 the process ended Jul 27 18:30:57 oh it did? then mrvc must have fixed it while I slept. Jul 27 18:30:58 nice Jul 27 18:31:01 destinal: i have a problem with loging in to a terminal with my username and password. I have letters and numbers in password and is no working Jul 27 18:31:29 mrvc is way faster than me at coding c++ anyway Jul 27 18:32:04 en0x: even with the symbol key? Jul 27 18:33:44 yap Jul 27 18:33:55 en0x: very soon we should be able to eliminate the login prompt as we'll be able to authenticate the app and then just run like xterm does rather than force you to login again Jul 27 18:34:49 en0x: for the moment you might try creating an unprivileged user, logging in as him, and then su - Jul 27 18:34:59 will do Jul 27 18:35:25 well i worked around it but i didnt know why i could not log in as user in logs i had invalid password Jul 27 18:35:35 but there is a good progress Jul 27 18:35:36 :) Jul 27 18:35:40 on the term app Jul 27 18:35:53 en0x: it could have been that shift lock or sym lock got stuck on and the output didn't get echoed back Jul 27 18:35:58 since it's a password prompt Jul 27 18:36:47 did any one have issues with the roam control patch? Jul 27 18:39:53 my patch doesnt seem to be working with no errors i can see from the step Jul 27 18:40:45 Epyon1: I was told the ability to configure that was broken in 1.1 Jul 27 18:40:56 it may not be possible any more Jul 27 18:41:05 according to the page it works Jul 27 18:41:26 so it needs to be removed from the works with 1.1 next to it Jul 27 18:44:15 Epyon1: unless someone can confirm it working in 1.1 Jul 27 18:45:21 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal (now covers 0.1.4) Jul 27 18:45:44 cool cool Jul 27 18:46:02 should i make a note on the page? that it may not work for some 1.1 phones? Jul 27 18:48:42 destinal: can we get a new screenshot? Jul 27 18:49:35 nah Jul 27 18:49:54 nope because its my screenshot and I said no to change! :p Jul 27 18:49:56 buehehe Jul 27 18:50:02 lol Jul 27 18:50:22 Hopefully they left "scary black screen". Jul 27 18:50:53 brb smokme Jul 27 18:50:57 Any thoughts on where I should start looking to see what's making PDFView crash every time it tries to close a PDF? Jul 27 18:51:47 open a bug :) Jul 27 18:51:58 so it doesn't happen to other people Jul 27 18:52:00 Haha. Jul 27 18:52:25 id say try and find away to get a log of whats going on when it crashes Jul 27 18:52:31 *a way Jul 27 18:52:43 have you checked /var/log/messages Jul 27 18:53:00 tail -n 80 /var/log/messages right after the crash Jul 27 18:53:08 sudo or as root Jul 27 18:54:18 Yeah, looking at messages, but not seeing anything special. Jul 27 18:54:28 Gonna try tail -f /var/log/messages and make it crash. See if anything interesting pops up. Jul 27 18:54:29 take away -n 80 Jul 27 18:54:36 ya Jul 27 18:56:21 destinal: any reason shift key doesn't keep it's toggle state? Jul 27 18:56:52 A bunch of messages from daemon.info upstart about documentserver Jul 27 18:56:52 ie if i press shift, release shift, then press 'A' i get 'a' not 'A' Jul 27 18:57:20 is this at the begining of a sentence? Jul 27 18:57:21 Zuchmir2: that happens on a normal terminal, too - so i bet it's some kind of additional feature needed Jul 27 18:57:33 same w/sym Jul 27 18:58:06 looks like mrvc tri-stated the control key Jul 27 18:59:03 Heh. It looks like it tries to write a log to /etc/rootfs_open.log which doesn't exist. Jul 27 18:59:30 hmm, looks like mrvc saw 131 as sym key, i'm seeing 130 Jul 27 18:59:57 Does the Pre automatically send off error logs? Jul 27 19:00:12 That are stored in /var/log/rdxd? Jul 27 19:02:01 ~eno Jul 27 19:02:02 Eno works tirelessly on Optware. He is the unsung hero keeping it all working. Jul 27 19:02:44 Maybe I'll just keep crashing PDFView so that it keeps sending them the logs. Jul 27 19:07:19 looks like mrvc has been seeing different sym/shift values than i did Jul 27 19:07:49 newbie here. Would 1.1.0 apply if I've modified palm source code? I'm getting validation errors for a few days now. I don't care about my mods. I can redo them. Jul 27 19:11:49 what kind of mods? i did a couple tweaks on mine and it had no problem updating to 1.1 Jul 27 19:12:26 it replaced all the .js programs that were affected by the updates from my understanding Jul 27 19:12:49 maybe u have some internet issues and its not downloadig the update corectly? Jul 27 19:14:25 I did a few with quilt that I popped out. Did mods on the Add page/remove page in the Launcher without applying patch. Jul 27 19:15:16 I have tried several times. Is 'Validating' only to check the downloaded update? Jul 27 19:15:25 destinal: do u have any objections to me overlaying the key-states on the top-left corner of drawing area? Jul 27 19:15:28 oh i know what your talking about Jul 27 19:15:46 the validating i was assuming is similar to an md5 check Jul 27 19:15:56 cause it did it after the download Jul 27 19:16:12 ie, when there's a key toggled, the top line uses a few bytes to indicate which keys are toggled Jul 27 19:16:45 are you using wifi or sprints internet Jul 27 19:17:10 cause if your in a poor reception area it probably wont download correctly Jul 27 19:17:17 epyon1: I'm using Wifi. Also tried with sprints internet. and different wifi networks as well. Jul 27 19:18:22 Short of using webos doctor, I don't know what else to do to get updates. Jul 27 19:18:41 is this your first or second update? Jul 27 19:19:13 First update after I rooted the Pre. Updated to 1.0.4 without issues. Jul 27 19:20:43 well i would have to assume its a software issue then mine was rooted when i updated to 1.1 and no issues other than losing some of my tweaks Jul 27 19:21:29 destinal: ok, since no objections, i just pushed a mod with key-states on the top line (only visible when any toggle key is on) Jul 27 19:21:59 ok. do you know where the update is downloaded to? Jul 27 19:22:51 i have no idea Jul 27 19:23:59 epyon1: ok. thanks. I will try to use webos doctor to restore to 1.1 and see what happens. Jul 27 19:24:06 ok Jul 27 19:38:02 it's at git, there's one more fix pending... Jul 27 19:40:07 destinal: you there? Jul 27 19:44:03 destinal: ok, just pushed a tri-stated version Jul 27 19:54:42 greetings all Jul 27 20:00:25 rwhitby: you around? Jul 27 20:03:09 what's the palm class to use to make text span a couple of rows Jul 27 20:03:26 truncating-text truncates it... only one line Jul 27 20:04:28 CorpX: probably more for the #webos channel, but multi-line works in palm-page-header divs Jul 27 20:04:38 cool Jul 27 20:05:04 hey all Jul 27 20:14:33 I don't like the green font for terminal Jul 27 20:14:38 I hate green for lettering Jul 27 20:14:39 heh Jul 27 20:14:49 I've never had a nix terminal be green Jul 27 20:15:22 I think the only terminals that were ever green were ibm something Jul 27 20:15:23 heh Jul 27 20:15:35 I don't mind the green, but I really need to be able to type a "|" Jul 27 20:15:59 I thought destinal said it was orange + period, but that doesn't work for me Jul 27 20:16:26 yeah, pipe symbols are good Jul 27 20:16:27 heh Jul 27 20:16:54 and we can't copy/paste in terminal yet can we? Jul 27 20:17:10 I'm just happy to see that we have a terminal now Jul 27 20:17:16 but yes, that pipe would be handy Jul 27 20:19:59 Will, do alias pipe="echo -e \\0174" Jul 27 20:20:49 type that from the shell? Jul 27 20:21:07 well Jul 27 20:21:14 you can have echo output a pipe symbol Jul 27 20:21:24 but that doesn't work that way heh Jul 27 20:22:04 Will, you should take note terminal app just came out on Friday or Saturday Jul 27 20:22:16 psykoz: yes I realize that. I Jul 27 20:22:17 So I mean it's only natural it's goign to be uhm.. missing stuff Jul 27 20:22:29 Or even have annoying things to you like green fonts Jul 27 20:22:30 I'm just bringing it up because he said it was working Jul 27 20:22:50 well maybe it is working for him ;) Jul 27 20:23:00 maybe so :) Jul 27 20:23:31 you know, I just tried orange-. and got the | Jul 27 20:23:31 pipe is btw owrking for me in 0.1.4 Jul 27 20:23:37 working* Jul 27 20:23:40 the green fonts are new Jul 27 20:24:02 I was saying I don't like the green font Jul 27 20:24:27 I don't know why some (very few) terminal apps use a green font heh Jul 27 20:24:36 so pipe works for me but I don't know if I'm doing the arrows wrong or not but have been able to make them work Jul 27 20:24:45 oh huh, it looks like orng-. for | stopped working again. Jul 27 20:25:17 is there a newer rev since last night? Jul 27 20:25:35 i'm building from git head, so i dunno Jul 27 20:26:05 hm i wonder if the keycode changed or something Jul 27 20:26:39 I'm using v.0.1.4 Jul 27 20:26:41 my friend bought a laptop that when he uses putty enter screws up Jul 27 20:26:46 it's weird Jul 27 20:26:54 it doesn't send a regular ^M heh Jul 27 20:27:08 I have him typing ctrl+m Jul 27 20:27:25 i think you can change that in putty Jul 27 20:28:58 WillJitsu: orange + period = | suffered a regression :( Jul 27 20:29:04 :( Jul 27 20:29:17 psykoz: you have it working in 1.4? Jul 27 20:29:25 s/1/0.1/ Jul 27 20:29:25 destinal meant: psykoz: you have it working in 0.1.4? Jul 27 20:29:34 anyway we can take a vote on doing green text? Jul 27 20:29:35 hehe Jul 27 20:29:36 destinal, yes Jul 27 20:29:50 jwm: no vote needed, preferences coming soon Jul 27 20:29:51 destinal, but I'm unable to get the arrow keys working Jul 27 20:30:00 heh the keypress translation is getting to be a jungle Jul 27 20:30:03 psykoz: then you're probably not actually updated Jul 27 20:30:11 what are you editing the xpm with? Jul 27 20:30:11 psykoz: have you rebooted / restarted luna? Jul 27 20:30:27 destinal, i restarted luna after updating to 0.1.4 last night, but did you put up another build of 0.1.4? Jul 27 20:30:48 he's probably still waiting for it to finish rebooting Jul 27 20:30:49 I was asleep, dunno, what's your md5sum Jul 27 20:30:52 it's only been a night Jul 27 20:30:56 jwm: lol Jul 27 20:31:11 it would be nice if we mapped a double-tap of the symbol key to actually allow for symbols to be selected Jul 27 20:31:15 where's the packages stored? Jul 27 20:31:34 sushi2: double-tap symbol key for symbol overlay coming soon to a terminal near you Jul 27 20:31:43 destinal: you rock Jul 27 20:32:14 do you guys think battery life estimation would be feasible? Jul 27 20:32:26 like a time estimation like you have on a laptop Jul 27 20:33:09 all it needs to say is less than 4 hours Jul 27 20:33:16 after full charge Jul 27 20:33:27 you get 4 hours on yours?? Jul 27 20:33:33 hehe Jul 27 20:33:40 I always leave mine plugged in Jul 27 20:33:44 I've never tried the battery Jul 27 20:33:48 too scared Jul 27 20:33:49 ive been getting 12 ish Jul 27 20:34:04 kinda sucks when your on a 12 hour shift Jul 27 20:34:12 and no place to plugin Jul 27 20:34:13 jvm: do u want bright red? Jul 27 20:34:30 I just like native colors of the terminal Jul 27 20:34:39 light gray default Jul 27 20:34:54 I've never used a green terminal Jul 27 20:35:18 it can be changed back easily, ut for the moment we are showcasing the color :-) Jul 27 20:35:18 I actually want to make my own terminal app Jul 27 20:35:22 using ajax Jul 27 20:35:29 and have a pretty bg and text shadow Jul 27 20:35:39 *pats* jwm Jul 27 20:35:52 I'm use to terminals like Eterm and mrxvt Jul 27 20:35:56 kind of spoiled Jul 27 20:35:57 jwm: the green screen was part of celebrating real ANSI color support, like you can run color ls now. Jul 27 20:36:08 they have font shadowing and bg pixmap Jul 27 20:36:17 ohh, Ididn't know that Jul 27 20:36:22 now I do Jul 27 20:36:36 can you change the green using escape sequences then? Jul 27 20:36:43 sure Jul 27 20:36:44 I like my gentoo default prompt Jul 27 20:36:52 destinal, just uninstalled completely and reinstalled, arrow keys work, so guess something didn't upgrade right Jul 27 20:36:53 \[\033[01;31m\]\h\[\033[01;34m\] \W \$\[\033[00m\] Jul 27 20:36:56 heh Jul 27 20:37:00 psykoz: sorry you lose pipes :( Jul 27 20:37:04 lol Jul 27 20:37:10 destinal, :) Jul 27 20:37:18 destinal, I don't need pipes as much as I need arrows right now Jul 27 20:37:25 you can do what I said though Jul 27 20:37:28 just pushed update with toggle states as "words": Gesture/Orange/Sym/Shift Jul 27 20:37:29 I don't know what changed, I have to check out commits Jul 27 20:37:29 destinal: quit stealin' my pipes! Jul 27 20:37:41 alias pipe="echo -e \\\0174" Jul 27 20:37:44 Epyon1: You might check with your local Sprint store - they gave me an extra battery when I asked if I could purchase one. Jul 27 20:37:59 eval cat `pipe` grep stuff Jul 27 20:38:01 hehe Jul 27 20:38:05 jwm: lol, awesome Jul 27 20:38:07 really? i was looking into the extended battery Jul 27 20:38:12 the one from sideo Jul 27 20:38:28 Epyon1: so was I, but if I can get a Palm battery for free, why bother Jul 27 20:38:32 if i buy it b4 the 31st i get 10% off Jul 27 20:38:35 lol Jul 27 20:38:44 Zuchmir2: have you checked out the pipe regression today? I'm at work so haven't gotten a chance Jul 27 20:38:49 extended batteries that are the same physical size as the stock one are nonsense Jul 27 20:38:58 no the bigger one Jul 27 20:39:05 usually they just stick a "2000mAH" label over the "1200mAH" label :) Jul 27 20:39:13 I'm still contemplating on strapping a car battery to mine Jul 27 20:39:13 oh yeah i haven't seen one of those.. sounds bulky Jul 27 20:39:13 with the extra casing Jul 27 20:39:18 I thought that was a good idea Jul 27 20:39:37 i wouldnt mind the phone is fairly small any ways or at least to me Jul 27 20:39:38 i saw that as well, it may have been due to me messings around with displaying key-state Jul 27 20:39:41 Epyon1: no larger one for me - just resized from the Touch Pro to the Pre. Jul 27 20:39:42 the problem though is the pre doesn't charge fast enough to handle a phone call it seems Jul 27 20:39:57 ... although i tried disabling my code, and it didn't help Jul 27 20:40:15 i'm unclear on what happened to the @/| thing Jul 27 20:40:24 my business is riding on this terminal app working fully Jul 27 20:40:27 the test is still there Jul 27 20:40:30 you guys better hurry up Jul 27 20:40:33 Pre charges insanely fast if you actually use the wall charger Jul 27 20:40:35 make it enterprise quality Jul 27 20:40:38 instead of plugging into a PC and rightfully so Jul 27 20:40:38 haha Jul 27 20:40:39 jwm: lol Jul 27 20:40:52 I'll have to fire 10 people if you don't get the pipe working Jul 27 20:40:57 :P Jul 27 20:40:58 yeah the usb doesnt have enough juice Jul 27 20:41:01 haha Jul 27 20:41:04 yeah usb charging is horrible Jul 27 20:41:11 I was trying to use terminal and charge it at the same time Jul 27 20:41:13 it didn't go well Jul 27 20:41:32 http://www.seidioonline.com/product-p/bacy26pmpre-bk.htm Jul 27 20:41:38 epv: I think mrvc's comma fix broke | Jul 27 20:41:39 i do it all the time Jul 27 20:41:53 err maybe Jul 27 20:41:54 been using the terminal all day fixing the patches that 1.1 broke for me Jul 27 20:42:26 "It has 90% more capacity than the original battery" Jul 27 20:42:29 Epyon1: you're editing lots of code using the terminal? just with vi? Jul 27 20:42:41 nano Jul 27 20:42:46 vi works nice in the terminal for me Jul 27 20:42:52 I installed vim too Jul 27 20:42:58 its fairly annoying with the usb thing Jul 27 20:43:17 i have to figure out maybe sshfs mount or somthing similar Jul 27 20:43:22 cool. it's awesome to see people getting lots of real use out of the app Jul 27 20:43:38 my entire irc client runs on a server in screen Jul 27 20:43:47 The bulky extended battery looks like it adds 1/4" an inch of thickness to your phone Jul 27 20:43:53 i hope the terminal apps get more stable Jul 27 20:43:54 so the terminal app was a needed one when I am out and about Jul 27 20:44:01 "4mm" aparently Jul 27 20:44:09 will this battery be chargable through the touchstone? Jul 27 20:44:15 Okay so slightly less than 1/4th, roughly 1/8th Jul 27 20:44:29 nah if you click on the link it has all the info Jul 27 20:44:49 ohh Jul 27 20:44:51 90% would be nice i could at least make it through one day with that Jul 27 20:44:51 I love their marketing Jul 27 20:44:53 yeah it says it isn't Jul 27 20:44:57 "made from the highest quality Japanese cells" Jul 27 20:44:59 I hope they make one that is Jul 27 20:45:10 they're outright saying "this battery isn't made in China you fuckwits" just like Fujitsu does with all of its products ;) Jul 27 20:45:12 do you have a touchstone? is it nice Jul 27 20:45:15 haha Jul 27 20:45:15 they should just put on there "made where sony batteries aren't" Jul 27 20:45:27 and dell Jul 27 20:45:36 I don't have a touchstone Jul 27 20:45:40 dell's wer chinese right thats why they were exploding like sonys Jul 27 20:45:43 I'm still looking at cases for the pre Jul 27 20:46:26 i ordered the invisible shield Jul 27 20:46:44 had alot of luck with those 2 mp3 players and a camera Jul 27 20:46:57 kinda weary with the touch screen though Jul 27 20:46:59 that thing is impossible to put on Jul 27 20:47:04 I bought two of them Jul 27 20:47:07 the full body one Jul 27 20:47:10 ah ok Jul 27 20:47:15 took it back because it wraps around the whole thing! Jul 27 20:47:21 have you had experience putting them on? Jul 27 20:47:33 then I thought based on their picture the front only wasn't full size Jul 27 20:47:40 so I bought it and took it home Jul 27 20:47:44 ive done a couple and know what not to do at least Jul 27 20:47:46 it was just the full body one without the back Jul 27 20:47:58 I wet my fingers... my hands, my entire body Jul 27 20:48:02 before touching the stuff Jul 27 20:48:03 you could trim it if you wanted Jul 27 20:48:15 it's not the right design for touch screen Jul 27 20:48:20 your finger sticks on it Jul 27 20:48:31 yeah well ill try it out for a little while Jul 27 20:48:35 see how it goes Jul 27 20:48:38 I'm just going to get a hard case Jul 27 20:48:57 ill probally stick with it...no pun intended cause im rough on phones and hate the hard cases Jul 27 20:49:16 I like the microfiber case Jul 27 20:49:24 but I miss so many calls getting it out and touching the screen wrong Jul 27 20:49:33 haha Jul 27 20:49:38 I've never answered a phone call on my pre successfully yet Jul 27 20:49:45 lol Jul 27 20:49:49 I even ignored a call once.. I didn't even know you could do that Jul 27 20:49:59 it's a special color Jul 27 20:50:04 i usally put it back and it the keypad will still be up and accedently call somone Jul 27 20:50:15 yeah Jul 27 20:50:32 I once put my girlfriend on 3 way calling with her own voice mail! Jul 27 20:50:36 haha Jul 27 20:50:52 not even intentionally I wasn't even trying to do 3 way heh Jul 27 20:51:13 oh question have you guys heard anything of some sort of app that would vib like 5 min after a missed call or txt msg Jul 27 20:51:34 i had one on my wm5 phone it was nice when i missed the vibration Jul 27 20:51:46 that sounds like a battery drainer Jul 27 20:52:16 yeah but it sucks when you miss an important txt and dont realize it till like 4-5 hours later Jul 27 20:53:03 sadly my moto q had better battery life than the pre Jul 27 20:53:35 didnt think it was possible to have that Jul 27 20:54:05 looks like '.' is comming in instead of 190, and ',' is comming in instead of 188 Jul 27 20:55:15 ah well im off Jul 27 20:58:34 ok, just pushed fix for pipe and underscore Jul 27 21:00:44 sweet. thanks! Jul 27 21:02:09 jwm: now you can re-hire those 10 ppl! :-) Jul 27 21:02:09 Zuchmir2: hmm.. "ipkg -o /var update ; ipkg -o /var upgrade" returns: "Nothing to be done" Jul 27 21:02:49 these updates were not yet packaged, they are available from git Jul 27 21:02:54 ahh Jul 27 21:02:57 how do I get them from there? Jul 27 21:03:17 git clone git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications.git Jul 27 21:03:27 ... and then compile them... Jul 27 21:05:35 ok. I'm not sure how to do that (linux newb) and I don't want anyone wasting their time teaching me. do you know when the next packaged version will be uploaded? Jul 27 21:10:50 prob. tommorow Jul 27 21:11:35 awesome. thanks Jul 27 21:22:30 Zuchmir2: did you know that you can now automatically cause a release? Jul 27 21:24:48 how? Jul 27 21:26:34 Zuchmir2: bump the version number in appinfo.json, then clone the preware repo (you have commit access), and bump the versions in the Makefiles for app/terminal and plugins/termplugin. Push the appinfo.json change first, then push the preware repo Makefile version bumps. The autobuilder will them build and publish the new versions within 15 minutes. Jul 27 21:27:30 Zuchmir2: then send the announcement email to the webos-internals-announce group. Let me know your username there and I'll give you posting rights. Jul 27 21:28:17 appinfo.json is not the plugin Jul 27 21:40:51 !seen eno Jul 27 21:41:03 * raeb1 kicks infobot Jul 27 21:41:03 can i paste something into the emulator? Jul 27 21:41:11 CorpX, should be able to Jul 27 21:41:18 ~seen eno Jul 27 21:41:21 eno is currently on #webos-internals #nslu2-linux, last said: 'nathan7: openwrt experts are in #openwrt and #openwrt-devel'. Jul 27 21:41:25 how? Jul 27 21:41:28 whats the shortcut? Jul 27 21:41:31 click+v? Jul 27 21:42:13 i believe so, i remember the emu stating that it supports clipboard integration Jul 27 21:42:43 not working for me Jul 27 21:43:58 rwhitby: s/matic/magic/ :) Jul 27 21:45:54 Zuchmir2: you edit the json to bump up the mojo app version (since we're keeping them in sync now even if the mojo side doesn't change) then you update the preware Makefiles so it knows to do a new build. commit, push, and It's done automagically by autobuilder. Jul 27 21:46:10 Zuchmir2: rwhitby set it up Jul 27 21:46:45 s/it up/up us the bomb/ Jul 27 21:46:45 destinal meant: Zuchmir2: rwhitby set up us the bomb Jul 27 21:48:25 destinal: should i bumb up the version for this fix Jul 27 21:52:52 should I use "WebOS Quick Install" or "PreBrew"? Jul 27 21:55:51 Zuchmir2: I wouldn't yet Jul 27 21:56:13 destinal: that's what i thought Jul 27 21:56:29 Zuchmir2: I've been trying to keep to no more than 1 release per day, people are probably dizzy as-is with all the releases. :) Jul 27 21:56:55 yeah, i know how dizy i am from them :-) Jul 27 21:59:03 Zuchmir2: I expect that to slow down once things stabilize a bit, 1 release per day in an alpha where things are rapidly taking shape is far different from a more mature app Jul 27 21:59:53 could some fill me in on todays pre news? Jul 27 22:00:09 Zuchmir2: but for anyone who doubted, I think this shows that the open development model works (where the whole project is in the open from the beginning, even before it's ready for prime time) Jul 27 22:04:02 well, looks like theres no need for me to make a google voice app anymore...looks like someone beat me to the punch. Jul 27 22:06:01 They did ? Jul 27 22:06:42 yeah, there's a gv dialer app in the homebrew section of precentral Jul 27 22:06:51 it's not full fledged yet, but it's got the dialer Jul 27 22:07:49 so, I have another idea for an app to help with all these updates...any developers here wanna help me? Jul 27 22:08:12 i'd like to make a "beta app catalog" Jul 27 22:08:51 basically an app catalog for developers to distribute apps in a beta only capacity (to abide by the TOS agreement distributed in the SDK) Jul 27 22:09:15 but it'd be able to check for updates and such similar to the official one... Jul 27 22:09:21 ooh ooh ooh Jul 27 22:09:28 can we call it... Jul 27 22:09:30 it'd also keep things categorized Jul 27 22:09:32 wait for it... Jul 27 22:09:39 palm apps labs Jul 27 22:09:42 instead of messy, like a forum Jul 27 22:09:43 :) Jul 27 22:09:44 haha Jul 27 22:10:06 LarrySteeze: where did u see it @ precentral? Jul 27 22:10:21 zuchmir: the google voice app? Jul 27 22:10:44 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194662-gdial-google-voice-dialer-v0-1-1-7-26-a.html Jul 27 22:13:24 yeah, was hoping they had something that just used the wifi for the call Jul 27 22:13:44 looks good though Jul 27 22:17:03 yeah...i'm not aware of anything using the wifi without using a voip account in addition to it (or something like skype) Jul 27 22:17:49 it'd be amusing to install the optware asterisk package and make it work :) Jul 27 22:22:03 wow ATT and verizon pre's as soon as exclusivity is over Jul 27 22:22:20 i'll be honest Jul 27 22:22:29 i wouldn't want an att or verizon pre anyways Jul 27 22:22:41 verizon is more expensive and handicaps their phones Jul 27 22:22:48 sprint lets you roam mostly free onto verizon anyway Jul 27 22:22:50 and att doesn't offer me anything sprint doesn't Jul 27 22:22:55 and their data network is barely used so it's nice and fast Jul 27 22:23:00 yeah...i never get charged for roaming Jul 27 22:23:01 it might be cool to have a gsm pre though Jul 27 22:23:07 I'm happy with sprint, but a friend of mine is a die hard verizon guy and this will give him the option without switching at any rate Jul 27 22:23:14 only if they made it quadband Jul 27 22:23:25 but verizon handicaps ALL of their phones Jul 27 22:23:30 just put it in "always roam" mode... "verizon" pre :) Jul 27 22:23:39 i don't know why...horsepower is always lower on the verizon versions Jul 27 22:23:45 no Jul 27 22:23:59 all the htc ones anyways... Jul 27 22:24:09 that's still roaming from sprint Jul 27 22:24:15 lol Jul 27 22:24:19 LarrySteeze: hopefully bootie will still be open and we can reflash a more standard image Jul 27 22:24:19 won't work on verizon Jul 27 22:24:29 i wish everyone writing apps that run shell commands would stop writing their own shell services Jul 27 22:24:41 why? Jul 27 22:24:42 destinal: i'll stick with sprint ;-) Jul 27 22:24:49 epv: I wish generic shell services were all eliminated Jul 27 22:24:53 yes Jul 27 22:24:58 it's sketchy Jul 27 22:25:07 the proper way to do it is obviously to make a service do the one thing you want Jul 27 22:25:14 rather than the nearly infinite number of things you don't want Jul 27 22:25:21 and having more than one is even worse Jul 27 22:25:38 and the fact that it's always as root is just asking for trouble Jul 27 22:26:11 the reason so far is pretty clearly laziness, which is a really lame reason for poor security Jul 27 22:26:36 somebody's going to write a downloader or something that doesn't parse its input well and then people will put up websites that execute shell commands on your phone Jul 27 22:27:14 that's why you have to use your own sense when downloading unofficial apps Jul 27 22:27:32 sure but there's no sense in inviting disaster either :) Jul 27 22:27:37 and continue to download only from 1. trusted sources or 2. sources you don't mind investigating Jul 27 22:27:49 ~saurik Jul 27 22:27:50 LarrySteeze: the sandbox that palm created should make mojo apps unable to reach a shell. period. Jul 27 22:28:03 we should avoid like the plague breaking that wall Jul 27 22:28:28 speaking of which has someone already done a flash-LED service? Jul 27 22:28:31 for what it's worth, I have avoided installing apps that require external services Jul 27 22:28:38 yes, PreGame has. Jul 27 22:28:46 oh good Jul 27 22:29:03 LarrySteeze: what about plugins and the terminal app? Jul 27 22:29:07 it's a service I want, but I have still avoided installing it Jul 27 22:29:25 destinal: I'm still ssh'ing everything. Jul 27 22:29:38 LarrySteeze: it's a safe approach. Jul 27 22:29:45 so technically, it's a service Jul 27 22:29:56 but I basically stopped at giving myself a door. Jul 27 22:30:13 i'm more in it for research Jul 27 22:30:19 genuinely Jul 27 22:30:30 "educational purposes" Jul 27 22:30:32 I mean avoiding installing anything non-mojo is a good way to keep from breaking the security model Jul 27 22:31:14 you would hope your service and plugin providers are taking care to protect your security but not installing them at all certainly never takes the risk Jul 27 22:31:24 i mean i'm not an "important person" and anyone getting info off my phone isn't going to get any incriminating evidence...but it's just what I do Jul 27 22:31:54 destinal: If I found a service that I felt I absolutely needed, I may do it Jul 27 22:32:03 I was tempted by the tether app Jul 27 22:32:22 talk about inviting bad things to happen. heh. Jul 27 22:32:38 but instead I just added an extra line to my account for free Jul 27 22:32:49 if you have source for the service you can audit it Jul 27 22:32:51 and re-added my mogul, which can tether Jul 27 22:33:02 maybe we should get onnman working Jul 27 22:33:07 connman Jul 27 22:33:10 epv: yeah tether relied on the arbitrary shell service. bad mojo. Jul 27 22:33:14 or something Jul 27 22:33:22 yeah i looked at that and said no thanks Jul 27 22:33:36 the tether app now uses its own service, right? Jul 27 22:33:38 exactly why i didn't install it Jul 27 22:33:39 yes. Jul 27 22:33:43 destinal, Zuchmir2: so you guys are all set for Terminal releases now? One more single point of failure (me) removed? Jul 27 22:33:53 anyway if i'm going to do that kind of stuff i'm certainly not going to do it by packet forwarding in the phone Jul 27 22:34:06 rwhitby: yeah, we should be, I'll test it out later Jul 27 22:34:44 rwhitby: i meant to tell you last night, I like the your "contact" page :-) Jul 27 22:34:50 why? Jul 27 22:35:18 tmzt: why what? Jul 27 22:35:20 what's wrong with packet forwarding? Jul 27 22:35:34 LarrySteeze: yeah, you have to load it into PGP to get my email address. Jul 27 22:35:38 i'm paranoid, probably nothing wrong with it for other people Jul 27 22:35:46 tmzt: oh, yeah, it's what your average home router does Jul 27 22:35:46 what do you think about getting connman to work Jul 27 22:35:49 LarrySteeze: let's see spammers do that automatically ... Jul 27 22:35:53 I got that Jul 27 22:36:06 wsup my people Jul 27 22:36:28 rwhitby: you see, the part that I liked about it was it basically says "if you can't figure this out, you have no business contacting me anyways" Jul 27 22:36:30 atlanta: preware autobuilder, new Terminal releases. Jul 27 22:36:53 rwhitby: good stuff i love to see you guys bring new stuff Jul 27 22:37:20 hopefully i can get a app kinda stuff up for our homebrewed apps Jul 27 22:37:28 with Pregame's filecoaster Jul 27 22:38:21 atlanta: what do you mean? Jul 27 22:38:43 Like right now how PreCentral has the link in the box Jul 27 22:38:49 PreCentral is going to publish a standard ipkg feed. I'm hoping the GUI app installer authors just support that, and don't go down the proprietary feed metadata format path, or even down the proprietary secret metadata lockin path. Jul 27 22:38:51 right... Jul 27 22:38:53 make some php on a server Jul 27 22:39:04 that would be really good Jul 27 22:39:05 ah Jul 27 22:39:11 yeah i was talking to PreGame about that Jul 27 22:39:15 and have where authors can submit to the server Jul 27 22:39:16 or rather starting to talk to him abou tit Jul 27 22:39:25 PreGame is the auth...that's exactly what i'm working on Jul 27 22:39:27 atlanta: that is being worked on too Jul 27 22:39:29 refer to above Jul 27 22:39:46 rwhitby: oh ok cool whos heading that camp Jul 27 22:39:46 ? Jul 27 22:39:50 a webos "beta catalog" Jul 27 22:39:57 atlanta: PreGame Jul 27 22:39:59 atlanta: PuffTheMagic and Templarian and Rick_ Jul 27 22:40:13 rwhitby: yo! Jul 27 22:40:23 well, I guess there are a few projects doing the same thing then :-\ Jul 27 22:40:26 rwhitby: http://preware.zen-sources.org/services/feed Jul 27 22:40:30 ^^ dynamic feed! Jul 27 22:40:43 LarrySteeze: there are at least 5 different groups working on this stuf Jul 27 22:40:49 lol Jul 27 22:40:55 rwhitby: i want to put the version number in the package name so that we can depend on a specific version Jul 27 22:40:59 there needs to be one unified one :-\ Jul 27 22:41:00 i hope thats ok Jul 27 22:41:02 PuffTheMagic: want to work on a script to allow authors to upload Jul 27 22:41:02 ? Jul 27 22:41:24 PuffTheMagic: ipkg already has a Depends: field which can do that Jul 27 22:41:24 atlanta: a java app maybe.... Jul 27 22:41:28 atlanta: but you can use a website Jul 27 22:41:34 oh Jul 27 22:41:35 whee, md5! :D Jul 27 22:41:37 rwhitby: right but how do you depend on a particular version Jul 27 22:41:37 just went up Jul 27 22:41:40 in the tree i see it now Jul 27 22:41:41 PuffTheMagic: I'll give you some examples. Look in the optware Packages file Jul 27 22:41:43 LarrySteeze: thats the idea, the hope is that this will be the real one. Jul 27 22:41:48 it can even do > version Jul 27 22:41:56 rwhitby: oh ok Jul 27 22:42:00 yeah show me an example Jul 27 22:42:09 PuffTheMagic: sorry for not pointing that out earlier Jul 27 22:42:12 rwhitby: even better would be an exact spec/api for the ipk feed Jul 27 22:42:17 rwhitby: no biggie Jul 27 22:42:19 PuffTheMagic: what backend is being used custom? Jul 27 22:42:23 Templarian: if that's what is going on, I suppose I should halt my project Jul 27 22:42:24 i just got the feed working a while ago Jul 27 22:42:25 yeah, that stuff is built into the format Jul 27 22:42:32 good thing I hadn't even started production lol Jul 27 22:42:40 atlanta: drupal with some custom tweaking of modules Jul 27 22:42:41 so i'm looking at the PreGame flashlight app, and it looks like its service is just an arbitrary shell command service, am I mistaken? Jul 27 22:43:00 epv: haven't used or researched it... Jul 27 22:43:01 PuffTheMagic: how do we publish the custom tweaking we are doing, so that people can see the code which runs the service? Jul 27 22:43:04 epv: pretty much Jul 27 22:43:08 :( Jul 27 22:43:14 PuffTheMagic: doesn't the obscured email address thing break the ipkg spec? Jul 27 22:43:16 LarrySteeze: lol, spend time working on an application or feel free to give input on the one being produced. Jul 27 22:43:43 destinal: idk, i dont see how it does Jul 27 22:43:55 destinal: Templarian claims its not required anyway Jul 27 22:44:08 destinal: i just want people to be able to contact the dev Jul 27 22:44:19 but i will have the bug tracker working soon Jul 27 22:44:21 right and to prevent someone spamming them all, I get you Jul 27 22:44:23 destinal, PuffTheMagic: package authors usually want the support email address to be in the clear for people to use. I can be a website URL too. Jul 27 22:44:36 rwhitby: thats what I said Jul 27 22:44:36 that was what I was thinking Jul 27 22:44:43 rwhitby: but Templarian dont like that Jul 27 22:44:52 im for reguarl e-mail addresses Jul 27 22:45:02 PuffTheMagic: the convention in the ipkg world is that it's not obsfucated. Jul 27 22:45:17 It's a support address, not necessarily the email address of the author Jul 27 22:45:19 rwhitby: well i've seen examples both ways Jul 27 22:45:19 rwhitby: I'm for it but allow the user to set it if your' going to require it. Jul 27 22:45:31 true Jul 27 22:45:41 something custom like he said a website also Jul 27 22:45:47 Templarian: absolutely - it needs to be separate from the site profile email address the author gives to log into the site Jul 27 22:46:06 add a extra field have it pull from there Jul 27 22:46:07 rwhitby: ok i can do something like that Jul 27 22:46:09 rwhitby: if you do that it can go to a clean email (it's just the main email is most peoples main email) Jul 27 22:46:21 i can add an extra field to the project node for maintaier address Jul 27 22:46:26 and it could be e-mail or www Jul 27 22:46:28 thats easy Jul 27 22:46:34 PuffTheMagic: do that Jul 27 22:46:34 PuffTheMagic: sounds good. Jul 27 22:46:39 the author should have full control of that field, and it should be made clear that it will be public, and it should not be obsfucated (unless the author types it in as such) Jul 27 22:46:44 sounds like a compromise Jul 27 22:47:06 * rwhitby bbl Jul 27 22:47:17 rwhitby: try to get me that depends example Jul 27 22:48:58 hey does anybody know how to use luna-send to change cdma networks...working on a script Jul 27 22:49:49 Someone want to test a mod for me Jul 27 22:49:50 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Display_Full_Status_Messages%28Messenger%29 Jul 27 22:49:51 the service is com.palm.data.carriernetworksettings or something Jul 27 22:50:18 i though that one looked promising Jul 27 22:50:43 wasn't sure about where to find docs Jul 27 22:51:40 How about we make a login method for one login at all these places Jul 27 22:51:49 oh boi i swear i have like 4 accounts for the community Jul 27 22:52:08 openid maybe Jul 27 22:53:21 PuffTheMagic: thought about making the feed xml? Jul 27 22:53:31 or json Jul 27 22:53:37 would make it heller easier on devs Jul 27 22:54:24 is there any documentation on making new native services? (before I start reverse engineering that myself? ;P) Jul 27 22:56:14 atlanta: i can make other output formats later Jul 27 22:57:09 PuffTheMagic: ok cool Jul 27 22:57:16 atlanta: but it really wouldnt be hard to parse this file Jul 27 22:57:32 each entry is split with a new line Jul 27 22:57:40 and each key/value pair is split with a : Jul 27 22:57:41 yea i could do it with ereg or preg but far as built in functions with js etc Jul 27 22:57:45 would make it easier Jul 27 22:57:46 ya dig Jul 27 22:57:59 you wouldnt need regex Jul 27 22:58:02 you just need to split Jul 27 22:58:06 split the feed by newline Jul 27 22:58:12 then split that result by : Jul 27 22:58:17 no regex necessary Jul 27 22:58:29 i've used json and xmlrpc before Jul 27 22:58:32 true i finally completly learned ereg and stuff so im in love with it now Jul 27 22:58:32 lol Jul 27 22:58:36 and walking an xmltree is much more annoying Jul 27 22:58:36 ereg? Jul 27 22:58:38 jjonez: maybe look in the com.palm.app.phoneprefs app? Jul 27 22:58:49 PuffTheMagic: That's what xpath is for. Jul 27 22:59:13 yeah that's the one that gets modded for roamonly Jul 27 22:59:17 right Jul 27 22:59:30 quotemstr_: regular expressions Jul 27 22:59:32 but luna-send says it's not running Jul 27 22:59:38 xpath is for validating xml i thought Jul 27 22:59:42 that does not make parsing it easy Jul 27 22:59:45 atlanta: What's wrong with the built-in JS nes? Jul 27 22:59:46 maybe that;s a general error message Jul 27 22:59:51 PuffTheMagic: No, it's for querying XML. Jul 27 22:59:56 PuffTheMagic: You can easily use it to extract values. Jul 27 22:59:57 it probably makes the interesting call when you change the network roam setting in the ui tho, maybe Jul 27 23:00:32 welll.... i've already said I would add everything extra that people want once im done getting the basics done Jul 27 23:01:00 i didnt go to school for CS or IT, all my progamming is self taught and i only know a little bit of a bunch of languages Jul 27 23:01:07 i am resourcefull though Jul 27 23:01:10 * saurik takes that as a "no, native services are still not documented by anyone" ;P Jul 27 23:01:18 so i need to do research as a program Jul 27 23:01:19 ;) Jul 27 23:01:36 saurik: not in wiki? Jul 27 23:01:37 saurik: yeah..... there are no docs for doing a c/c++ service yet Jul 27 23:01:58 hey saurik Jul 27 23:02:01 saurik: i sent an e-mail to palm about the lack of lunaservices.h Jul 27 23:02:02 aren't the requied functions known though? Jul 27 23:02:05 in libpurple adapter Jul 27 23:02:14 i havent gotten a real reply back yet Jul 27 23:02:25 i just got the defacto... we are looking into it Jul 27 23:02:28 nm on existing plugins? Jul 27 23:02:57 tmzt: well even if the functions were known we dont have a header Jul 27 23:03:02 so the compiler will bitch Jul 27 23:03:19 saurik: aren't you in the wrong place? :) nice to see u here anyhow. if and when we do get info, the wiki is the place to put it Jul 27 23:05:19 has anyone here had any trouble with the webos quick install? Jul 27 23:05:35 i just downloaded it and tested it and for some reason...it doesn't do anything for me Jul 27 23:05:54 PuffTheMagic: look at the apache package in http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/Packages Jul 27 23:06:19 There are also Conflicts and other fields you will find in that feed metadata Jul 27 23:06:51 * rwhitby bbl (1h) Jul 27 23:07:11 saurik: sorry, was away. have you looked at libpurple-adapter ? Jul 27 23:07:17 Is the zoom functionality limited or I have code to zoom in more in the palm pre? Jul 27 23:07:47 rwhitby: thanks Jul 27 23:07:50 i noticed the conflicts Jul 27 23:08:03 rwhitby: does that take > = and >= Jul 27 23:08:08 or just >= ? Jul 27 23:08:27 destinal: no; I decided to just ask here first before doing any other work on the matter (and even just knowing "libpurple is an example of a native service" has been invaluable, so I'm excited ;P) Jul 27 23:09:02 How do I get the new Terminal from preware.org? Jul 27 23:10:42 ~seen eno Jul 27 23:10:45 eno is currently on #webos-internals #nslu2-linux, last said: 'nathan7: openwrt experts are in #openwrt and #openwrt-devel'. Jul 27 23:11:25 eno or rwitby: around? Jul 27 23:12:17 mmmm reeces pieces Jul 27 23:13:16 saurik: http://www.meetup.com/palm-webos/ Jul 27 23:13:50 FYI for anyone else in the SF Bay Area, tomorrow night at Palm HQ.. meetup Jul 27 23:14:15 Everything is in SF. Jul 27 23:14:17 raeb: i'm here Jul 27 23:14:34 saurik: palm even provides the code to their adapter (a dbus service wrapped around libpurple) under the GPL, but it's only a partial release, lots of stuff missing for it to build Jul 27 23:14:47 ahhh Meta Viewport Jul 27 23:15:00 Robi_: for the record, I am in southern california (Santa Barbara) Jul 27 23:15:04 eno: hey i dunno if you saw my message in openwrt-devel Jul 27 23:15:06 I've requested it but I think palm hates me :( Jul 27 23:15:22 eno: but, the vpnc wasn't built with the openssl libraries, preventing me from connecting to vpn with a certificate Jul 27 23:15:39 and i was wondering what are the options Jul 27 23:15:57 destinal: ok, I might make another massive twitter complaint about it (I heard through the grapevine that the webcore fixed patch happened partially due to the bad PR storm I started there) Jul 27 23:16:27 raeb: does vpnc provides the option of building with openssl? Jul 27 23:16:37 yes sir Jul 27 23:16:42 if it does, i can take a look at adding it Jul 27 23:16:48 what would be awersome Jul 27 23:16:53 s/what/that/ Jul 27 23:16:53 raeb meant: that would be awersome Jul 27 23:16:59 saurik: webcore fixed patch? Jul 27 23:17:01 destinal: wheres the code to that adapter Jul 27 23:17:02 ? Jul 27 23:17:19 destinal: the webcore/webkit patches were also missing a lot of stuff due to the way the diff was made Jul 27 23:17:22 !infobot random Jul 27 23:17:24 atlanta: opensource.palm.com Jul 27 23:17:36 atlanta: but its sorta useless since its missing headers Jul 27 23:17:42 gotcha Jul 27 23:17:51 we need lunaservice.h and cjson/json.h Jul 27 23:17:58 i thought he ment like adapter as in syntax to stuff already there Jul 27 23:18:02 gotcha Jul 27 23:18:08 anybody asked palm about those Jul 27 23:18:08 ? Jul 27 23:18:13 atlanta: yes i did Jul 27 23:18:19 i said that like 20 lines ago ;) Jul 27 23:18:22 lmfaoo Jul 27 23:18:25 i walked away Jul 27 23:18:25 sorry Jul 27 23:18:28 atlanta: you can write a java service though Jul 27 23:18:31 and thats documented Jul 27 23:18:33 and easy Jul 27 23:18:37 damn Jul 27 23:18:40 i would just go that route for now Jul 27 23:18:57 docs on the developers site Jul 27 23:18:57 ? Jul 27 23:19:12 atlanta: look at my LEDService service Jul 27 23:19:14 in the git repo Jul 27 23:19:20 that will give you an idea Jul 27 23:19:27 ok cool Jul 27 23:19:29 is cjson modified? Jul 27 23:19:35 tmzt: modified Jul 27 23:19:39 they need to get openGL going Jul 27 23:19:41 its pure palm code Jul 27 23:19:43 3d gaming Jul 27 23:19:49 wasn't saurik asking? Jul 27 23:20:10 tmzt: cjson is not the python binding you are probably thinking of Jul 27 23:20:14 its a C json lib Jul 27 23:20:16 oh, I thought it was based on library from somewhere Jul 27 23:20:18 which palm wrote i think Jul 27 23:20:28 tmzt: if you can find a C json lib let me know Jul 27 23:20:32 there is no reason we need to use plams Jul 27 23:20:33 somebody said that here Jul 27 23:20:34 palms Jul 27 23:20:55 tmzt: me and destinal googled for it and didnt find anything Jul 27 23:20:59 true Jul 27 23:21:14 but in all honesty.... Jul 27 23:21:21 try the logs from June 14-16 Jul 27 23:21:25 99% of the services from palm are java services Jul 27 23:21:32 and they really dont hurt performance Jul 27 23:21:35 I still want c services Jul 27 23:21:38 its not like you are making a java game Jul 27 23:21:44 destinal: i know.. so do i Jul 27 23:21:54 but java does get ripped apart for no reason Jul 27 23:21:54 libpurple-adapter is still a great example of why you'd want to Jul 27 23:22:13 destinal: jni should accomplish the same though right? Jul 27 23:22:19 PuffTheMagic: ugly Jul 27 23:22:24 JNI is an abomination. Jul 27 23:22:33 It's truly horrid. Jul 27 23:22:38 There's nothing wrong with the dbus idea. Jul 27 23:22:42 IPC isn't the bottleneck. Jul 27 23:22:47 no dbus ftw! Jul 27 23:22:51 If palm won't comply with the GPL I'll raise the complaint in the right places and write my own, but be sad. Jul 27 23:22:57 but.... Jul 27 23:23:01 actually Jul 27 23:23:20 you dont want to write a daemon Jul 27 23:23:23 just to relay dbus events Jul 27 23:23:30 cause it would have to poll Jul 27 23:23:32 and waste cpu Jul 27 23:23:33 What's wrong with a daemon? Jul 27 23:23:34 and battery Jul 27 23:23:40 As long as it's sleeping, it doesn't consume any resources. Jul 27 23:23:42 wouldn't operate while in sleep Jul 27 23:23:45 A process that isn't running isn't running, silly. Jul 27 23:23:59 It's not as if select() means while(!we_have_events()) { ; } Jul 27 23:23:59 PuffTheMagic: it gets kicked up when the message comes in first, right? Jul 27 23:24:05 no Jul 27 23:24:09 not at all Jul 27 23:24:11 ah Jul 27 23:24:21 destinal: a dbus daemon that is Jul 27 23:24:25 the java service "Waits" Jul 27 23:24:35 and the api notifies it to wake up and do shit Jul 27 23:24:38 I figured it just blocked on input of some kind, which doesn't consume much Jul 27 23:24:41 if you subscribe to a dbus event, its not polling Jul 27 23:24:43 rite? Jul 27 23:24:46 but since you cant tie into the luna api with dbus daemon Jul 27 23:24:54 you would have to poll Jul 27 23:25:08 PuffTheMagic: what is lunaservice.h if not tying into the luna api? Jul 27 23:25:30 lunaservices.h WOULD let us tie into it Jul 27 23:25:32 * quotemstr_ tries to figure out why Emacs tramp won't work with webos Jul 27 23:25:36 but we dont have it Jul 27 23:25:40 so thats not an option Jul 27 23:25:44 PuffTheMagic: right, I'll write an equivilent if I have to Jul 27 23:25:48 so the only way to make a dbus service would be a polling daemon Jul 27 23:25:49 not rocket science Jul 27 23:26:00 nice LED service Jul 27 23:26:02 destinal: if you an RE the api that would be fine Jul 27 23:26:09 *nods* Jul 27 23:26:14 but good luck Jul 27 23:26:31 time to go learn some java Jul 27 23:26:33 destinal: i would rather have libPiranha Jul 27 23:26:36 bzhou * r10503 optware/trunk/make/vpnc.mk: vpnc: staged, configured, depends on openssl Jul 27 23:26:37 than lunaservices Jul 27 23:26:39 "its not rocket surgery" Jul 27 23:26:55 PuffTheMagic: hopefully palm will provide both (crosses fingers) Jul 27 23:27:10 destinal: there is no service that I can imagine right now that needs a native service Jul 27 23:27:18 java should be fine Jul 27 23:27:21 but for graphics Jul 27 23:27:23 i think palm should open it all up Jul 27 23:27:27 we could use the native pirahana Jul 27 23:27:46 PuffTheMagic: java's not always the right tool, especially for adapting a C lib Jul 27 23:28:02 /agree destinal Jul 27 23:28:08 destinal: im not arguing that Jul 27 23:28:10 im just saying Jul 27 23:28:23 for most "from scratch" services... Jul 27 23:28:26 java will be fine Jul 27 23:28:36 PuffTheMagic: Memory isn't free, and the JVM isn't lightweight. Jul 27 23:28:43 If you can write it in C, why use java? Jul 27 23:28:46 the java vm is already loaded Jul 27 23:28:49 raeb: please test when ipk arrives in the feed Jul 27 23:28:49 bleh c Jul 27 23:28:59 eno: woot, that was quick Jul 27 23:29:08 every service beside the libpurple adapter is java Jul 27 23:29:08 when ipk arrives in the feed ? Jul 27 23:29:09 so jvm is already loaded Jul 27 23:29:14 C99 is a fine language. C++ is a little better, but that's beside the point. :-) Jul 27 23:29:26 i have memory management Jul 27 23:29:27 PuffTheMagic: Ah, but don't they run in separate processes? Jul 27 23:29:34 s/v/t Jul 27 23:29:38 Of course, I'd rather write in Common Lisp. Jul 27 23:29:40 in the long run, we hope there're more ppl become optware developers Jul 27 23:29:43 nope Jul 27 23:29:49 the services each get their own thread Jul 27 23:29:54 raeb: probably take 3-4 hours Jul 27 23:29:56 but they are loaded by the luna framework Jul 27 23:29:59 which only needs 1 vm Jul 27 23:30:07 eno: kk Jul 27 23:30:08 PuffTheMagic: Ah. Is the libpurple service in its own process? Jul 27 23:30:20 are they going to release a gui debugger anytime soon Jul 27 23:30:22 all the services get their own thread Jul 27 23:30:24 i hate this command line one Jul 27 23:30:50 see http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Optware_Cross_Compilation for optware build instruction Jul 27 23:31:22 eno: what takes 3-4 hours? Jul 27 23:31:40 saurik: I'm aware, but it's not a long drive. If you need a place to stay the night, let me know.. Jul 27 23:31:46 when nslu2-linux takes turn building other stuff Jul 27 23:31:59 takes about 3-4 hours for a round Jul 27 23:32:01 eno: if i ipkg-opt update; ipkg-opt list | grep vpn, will i see the version number increase? Jul 27 23:32:15 anybody know why html in alert dialogs stop working Jul 27 23:32:23 yeah, when it reaches the feed Jul 27 23:32:27 great, thanks Jul 27 23:32:35 in this case, you'll see IPK_VERSION increment Jul 27 23:32:53 i don't have the time to upgrade vpnc to latest version Jul 27 23:33:10 oic Jul 27 23:33:15 no worries Jul 27 23:33:18 Robi_: with 1 days notice spending 10 hours (round-trip) driving is not something I can do ;P Jul 27 23:33:32 just the fact that libssl-dev is included in the build Jul 27 23:33:40 should fix me right up Jul 27 23:34:36 more like 4, and over 2 days, it's an easy trip. i hear u on the sooness of it.. but if you don't have other commitments, you can have a place to stay at in San Jose Jul 27 23:34:57 last tiem i was in san jose, 1998 Jul 27 23:35:05 <3 the boardwalk Jul 27 23:35:32 raeb: boardwalk at Santa Cruz? Jul 27 23:35:45 saurik: think cost/benefit ratio and poking at palm devs AT palm. Jul 27 23:35:46 just south of san jose ? Jul 27 23:35:48 i think so Jul 27 23:35:51 i was young, family vacation Jul 27 23:36:07 right, not much to see in San Jose (I live in San Jose) Jul 27 23:36:12 Robi_: yeah, "don't have other commitments" is pretty much impossible for me ;P its too bad it isn't over a weekend... although maybe they didn't want people travelling ;P Jul 27 23:36:30 we went from san fransisco down to san diego Jul 27 23:36:41 santa cruz is SW of SJ across a mountain, 45min. Jul 27 23:36:50 that should be a very fun trip Jul 27 23:37:08 saurik: no prob, wanted to make sure it wasn't only the drive. offer stands. Jul 27 23:37:43 raeb: that is a trip. done it over a weekend helping someone move stuff up from SD. Jul 27 23:37:55 yow, a weekend Jul 27 23:38:00 we did it over like 4 days Jul 27 23:38:01 lol Jul 27 23:38:05 stopped at various places Jul 27 23:38:18 saurik: so, re the services intertface, are you interested in diving into hacking on webos now? Jul 27 23:38:29 s/rtfa/rfa/ Jul 27 23:38:29 destinal meant: saurik: so, re the services interface, are you interested in diving into hacking on webos now? Jul 27 23:38:32 mostly sf and la Jul 27 23:38:46 * raeb watercoolers it Jul 27 23:38:49 raeb: new package should be in cs08q1armel feed now, (I did a manual build on autobuilder) Jul 27 23:38:56 rock! Jul 27 23:40:03 i think im doign something wrong http://webos.pastebin.com/m3b256bb7 Jul 27 23:40:03 destinal: as I think you know, I have been for a while Jul 27 23:40:29 saurik: sure, you've just been quiet. :) Jul 27 23:40:44 i keep trying to read cs08q1armel as some coded way to write carmel Jul 27 23:40:46 keeping busy, I expect.. Jul 27 23:41:01 i get carmel Jul 27 23:41:14 saurik: are you the proud owner of a Pre ? Jul 27 23:41:23 saurik: not like you have anything else going on or anything, right? :P Jul 27 23:41:29 raeb: is tun builtin in the kernel? Jul 27 23:41:36 eno: yes Jul 27 23:41:39 eehhhhhhhhhh Jul 27 23:41:46 yay destinal Jul 27 23:41:51 then you can safely ignore that error Jul 27 23:42:11 Robi_: I have a giant pile of every cell phone I find remotely interesting Jul 27 23:42:33 so many contracts.. Jul 27 23:42:39 woohoo Jul 27 23:42:40 now to test it Jul 27 23:42:45 Robi_: I keep only one contract per carrier Jul 27 23:42:57 which hw do you choose to receive calls on? Jul 27 23:43:32 humorously enough, I currently don't receive incoming calls, but that's a random thing that occured over the last few days and is mostly just funny to mention ;P Jul 27 23:43:37 my main phone is an iPhone 3GS Jul 27 23:44:23 Ew, closed platform. Jul 27 23:44:25 borked sw/fw or messed up call routing due to GV ? Jul 27 23:44:32 eno: "vpnc was built without openssl: Can't do hybrid or cert mode." Jul 27 23:44:48 quotemstr_: for me the iPhone is about as open as it gets; I can modify the source code to any existing application without even having to recompile it Jul 27 23:44:56 quotemstr_: but then again, I am more than happy to read Objective-ARM Jul 27 23:45:17 i see they released the 1.10 patch Jul 27 23:45:23 anyone know what's in it? Jul 27 23:45:26 saurik: :-) Jul 27 23:45:29 Technobabble: There's a page on the wiki. Jul 27 23:45:33 k Jul 27 23:45:39 Technobabble: Nothing spectacular, AFAICS Jul 27 23:45:55 saurik: without having to recompile.. ok maybe I have a lot to learn about objc and how osx on mach-o works Jul 27 23:45:57 ooo its because upgrade failed Jul 27 23:46:00 raeb: i see it clearly is linked with libssl Jul 27 23:46:04 yeah, thats my bad Jul 27 23:46:05 that's very surprising to me Jul 27 23:46:07 with objdump Jul 27 23:46:09 it didn't actually upgrade, sorry Jul 27 23:46:10 destinal: the fact that apple's stuff is written in objective-c is just plain amazing Jul 27 23:46:35 destinal: you can take libraries.... even executables... and run a tool on the binary to generate a complete set of headrs for it Jul 27 23:46:37 ah, you probably need to use some -force-... flag Jul 27 23:46:52 destinal: nothing is inline, its all by-name lookuped... its the most simple to read source code you can imagine Jul 27 23:46:57 saurik: that would be nice about now :) Jul 27 23:47:01 tonight I'm going to be adding some features to the maps app Jul 27 23:47:09 eno: i forgot -force-depends Jul 27 23:47:10 yeah Jul 27 23:47:23 I want a legend, a compass rose, and I am going to start messing with adding latitude support (reverse engineered out of android) Jul 27 23:47:37 where might that page on the update be? Jul 27 23:47:47 someone just posted a modification they've been working on this week to add youtube downloading to the youtube application Jul 27 23:47:48 saurik: cool Jul 27 23:48:01 nm, found it Jul 27 23:48:02 saurik: javascript's not hard to modifiy, either ;) Jul 27 23:48:08 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Update_1.1.0 Jul 27 23:48:15 Is it me, or is Palm's indentation style screwy? Jul 27 23:48:20 destinal: http://www.funkyspacemonkey.com/yourtube-download-youtube-videos-iphones-native-app Jul 27 23:48:21 nice, so it turns out to be just code porting for saurik Jul 27 23:48:24 can't see objc, even if easy, being *easier* Jul 27 23:48:44 but for the low level stuff that sounds amazing Jul 27 23:48:49 destinal: while that's true, it goes all the way down to the bottom Jul 27 23:48:54 Added the following Auto-Replace entries: "ill|I'll, r|are, yinz|you, yous|you" Jul 27 23:49:01 did they really add "ill" to "i'll" Jul 27 23:49:04 'cause ill's a word Jul 27 23:49:07 saurik: I thought iPhone applications were *compiled* Objective C. Even if everything is looked up by name, the actual functions are all machine code, right? Jul 27 23:49:12 destinal: even apple's hardware interfaces are written with objective-c compatible objects Jul 27 23:49:22 destinal: no wonder the apps are snappier on the iphone/touch Jul 27 23:49:31 quotemstr_: the functions are machine code, but machine code is quite easy to read; every function call is by name Jul 27 23:49:36 saurik: I guess I need to pick up my 2g iphone again and start playing Jul 27 23:49:38 PuffTheMagic: I believe Depends takes >, =, >=, but I'll check the source code and let you know. Jul 27 23:49:56 saurik: So it's like unstripped C. I'd still prefer JS. Jul 27 23:49:56 raeb: I'm here now Jul 27 23:50:15 like the pre a lot so far though Jul 27 23:50:23 quotemstr_: yes, but the JS only goes so deep ;P Jul 27 23:50:47 as deep as the app service it runs on Jul 27 23:50:49 hey, eno's been helpin me out get a fix in optware for vpnc - it wasn't compiled with openssl libs so i couldn't connect with a cert Jul 27 23:51:22 rwhitby and PuffTheMagic, i can confirm ipkg depends can take >, =, >= Jul 27 23:52:12 vpnc by default turn off openssl, so it can be purely GPL Jul 27 23:52:20 PuffTheMagic: eno is the ipkg expert - he's been working with it about 10 times more intensely than i have for 4 years. Jul 27 23:52:56 eno: is it APT compatible, or "logical" (as in, does > mean >= and >> mean >, or does > mean > and there is no >>) Jul 27 23:53:42 saurik: i'll need to look in ipkg code to answer that Jul 27 23:54:01 i don't remember seeing >> Jul 27 23:54:27 so probably compatible Jul 27 23:54:45 as in the purpose of ipkg .. Jul 27 23:54:59 there's also gnutls Jul 27 23:56:43 Robi_: if he doesn't remember >> then it isn't compatible Jul 27 23:56:45 how long does the hardware on the pre have a warentee for? Jul 27 23:56:50 Robi_: well, if he fails to find it per his remembrance Jul 27 23:56:59 (which would be sad, as it sort of seems to claim to be compatible) Jul 27 23:57:25 * Robi_ waits eno's grep results Jul 27 23:57:44 saurik: in ipkg code, there're actually "<=", "<", "<<" Jul 27 23:57:48 there is mention from a while ago of the ipk format also being deb compatible, but it doesn't actually seem to be (it seems really really close, though; I need to examine why it is failing; might be able to mess with dpkg) Jul 27 23:57:55 eno: ok, and hopefully < means <= ;P Jul 27 23:58:42 nice, ok time to drive to SJ.. Jul 27 23:58:49 PuffTheMagic: will we have an xmlrpc (or something) way for another aggregation site to suck the data out of the submission database? Jul 27 23:59:12 saurik: i think so, http://webos.pastebin.com/m4bc2c63a Jul 27 23:59:14 rwhitby: thats not a problem Jul 27 23:59:33 rwhitby: i need to figure out how to add dependencies and conflicts into the website first Jul 27 23:59:39 then the feed should be all set up Jul 27 23:59:39 awesome! Jul 27 23:59:48 then i need to add a way to filter the feed Jul 27 23:59:51 like by category Jul 27 23:59:53 or by program Jul 27 23:59:55 etc. Jul 28 00:00:14 PuffTheMagic: I have this vision of a federated open source ipkg feed community, where one site can be a submission site for a certain group of authors, and another site can be another submission site, but then a third site can be an "aggregator" site which has no submission process, but adds things like support forums and user reviews. Jul 28 00:00:14 so /feed?category=Entertainment Jul 28 00:00:18 or /feed/Entertainment Jul 28 00:00:36 In that way, no one site feels the need to "hoard" applications or authors, cause everyone can get the data from everyone else and add their own value-add around that data. Jul 28 00:00:47 rwhitby: well drupal as a forum module Jul 28 00:00:53 i can add that in the blink of an eye ;) Jul 28 00:01:07 and it has aggregator support Jul 28 00:01:10 rwhitby: that will be really hard to maintain due to costs and where value adds occur Jul 28 00:01:13 PuffTheMagic: you're not getting the concept - the idea is to *not* centralise everything on one site. Jul 28 00:01:36 rwhitby: im not saying other people cant have their own sites... Jul 28 00:01:38 rwhitby: That sounds overcomplicated to me. Centralized repositories work for Linux distributions. Jul 28 00:01:45 saurik: e.g. PreCentral.net would be happy (I've spoken to them about this) to just suck the package data from elsewhere, and do the forums and reviews and rating part. Jul 28 00:01:49 what i am saying is that our site can do all the things you just mentioned Jul 28 00:01:55 rwhitby: And as PuffTheMagic said, other people can set up their own repositories. Jul 28 00:02:00 rwhitby: yeah, so would I; the forumsa nd reviews and ratings are where all the money is ;P Jul 28 00:02:13 bbl Jul 28 00:02:25 saurik: ah, the money is with Palm. this is all about FOSS applications. Jul 28 00:02:39 rwhitby: free stuff makes tons of money if you do it right Jul 28 00:02:40 rwhitby: in terms of ads, page views, etc Jul 28 00:03:20 saurik: sure, but preware.org is not getting into that. there's no way I'm putting a site registered in my name between Palm and a dollar. Jul 28 00:03:54 (that's why it's .org, not .com) Jul 28 00:03:58 rwhitby: I'm just saying that your wording was a little weird; precentral would be happy to be in that position because from their perspective they are screwing you ;P Jul 28 00:04:22 saurik: whether you are being screwed or not depends on what your motivation is. Jul 28 00:05:03 you're busy construcitng, organizing, and possibly even hosting content, and they are raking in the moolah from all your time; the community would be much better served if you didn't have to /also/ do somethign else to eat because precentral was taking all of your cash ;P Jul 28 00:05:35 The code that runs preware.org will be open source so that anyone can replicate it. The database contents will be extractable by anyone. Jul 28 00:05:49 saurik: again, depends on your motivations :-) Jul 28 00:06:47 if you want to make a dollar out of it, be up-front and host as .com Jul 28 00:06:53 you keep equating open source with "isn't possible to make money"; most of the stuff I do for the iPhone is BSD or GPL (in fact, everything but two binaries I've ever released are) Jul 28 00:07:03 saurik: no, I don't equate those at all. Jul 28 00:07:12 * quotemstr_ wonders what develSecret in the Youtube application is for Jul 28 00:07:14 the goal should be to benefit your user community Jul 28 00:07:23 I'm purely saying there is a sub-category of open source which does not want to make money Jul 28 00:07:24 and if you could do what you do full time, and even bring on help Jul 28 00:07:28 yea because palm is taking forever Jul 28 00:07:32 that would help a lot more people and make even more awesome open source software Jul 28 00:07:52 non-profits don't ignore money: they simply spend it all on their goals Jul 28 00:07:55 saurik: yep, and by making the source code to the site open and the database open, someone who has that motivation will be able to do it. Jul 28 00:08:14 some people would not want to do that full-time. Jul 28 00:08:36 yea someone will try to profit Jul 28 00:08:41 get there name high on google Jul 28 00:08:46 atlanta: good luck to them Jul 28 00:08:47 and most people see and and just pay Jul 28 00:08:55 exactly Jul 28 00:09:33 rwhitby: who pays for your bandwidth? Jul 28 00:09:56 saurik: Oregon State University, same as they do for lots of other open source projects. Jul 28 00:10:16 rwhitby got connections lol Jul 28 00:10:19 http://osuosl.org/services/hosting/communities Jul 28 00:10:31 been doing so for 3 years now. Jul 28 00:11:12 rwhitby: sponsorships like that are just another way of making money (and convincing people you are worth sponsoring or supporting, with money or coding time, requires people knowing your brand) Jul 28 00:11:25 saurik: and community donations have paid for the hardware that sites in the rack, and the upgrades since. Jul 28 00:11:50 saurik: sure, OSUOSL gets their brand out there as a result. Jul 28 00:11:54 rwhitby: if no one ever knew who you were, because you were behind precentral's better marketted aggregated frontend, you wouldn't get the good will and donations that result Jul 28 00:12:01 in fact, they would Jul 28 00:12:04 even though they have no costs Jul 28 00:12:19 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8170027.stm Jul 28 00:12:23 (or at least, not appreciable ones; running metadata is not as expensive as running data) Jul 28 00:12:25 this will be an awesome app to make Jul 28 00:12:43 saurik: if they end up running the database instead, and the community gets the same result, then I have less work to do Jul 28 00:12:57 (and can focus on the next interesting device instead) Jul 28 00:13:04 heh, I live 20 minutes from OSU... Jul 28 00:13:25 rwhitby: maybe I misunderstand what your proposal was, but they aren't running the database: you are, they just prepresent the "feed" for the users Jul 28 00:13:47 rwhitby: but now everyone is dealing with them, despite it being your work and, if they did it semi-intelligently, your bandwidth for the ipk files Jul 28 00:14:24 idk why we would want precentral pulling in our feed Jul 28 00:14:29 saurik: right, and if I run the database but they don't, then they'll start donating if there is a a chance the database will go away, or they will host it themselves (we'll make the proviso that they have to have the data open just like we did, so that someone else can do the same to them) Jul 28 00:14:51 rwhitby: ok, that's the moral equivalent of charging them for access; now that makes sense Jul 28 00:15:02 saurik: just like GPL for data. Jul 28 00:15:47 saurik: e.g. I have already convinced them that any package feed they create should be an open ipkg feed format, so that anyone can mirror it. Jul 28 00:17:07 rwhitby: I don't think US copyright law covers mere databases. Jul 28 00:17:20 rwhitby: See Feist. Jul 28 00:17:54 licenses can cover anything you put into the wording... Jul 28 00:17:58 quotemstr_: you may be right. if it comes to the fine point of the law, then PreCentral looses the confidence of the community which contributes the packages. Jul 28 00:18:20 it is entirely up to the courts as to whether or not that wording is enforceable or not...but you can word it any way you like Jul 28 00:18:39 just like a company that screws with the GPL gets bad karma from GPL authors. Jul 28 00:18:51 (even if they are within the letter of the law) Jul 28 00:19:21 Hasn't hurt Tivo. Jul 28 00:19:33 (and yes, this only works for Free, Libre, Open Source apps. commercial authors will just go to the Palm Catalog anyway. Jul 28 00:24:04 I'm of mixed feelings about it, but it could work Jul 28 00:25:52 destinal: it's worth a try in my mind. it removes all the person-against-person stuff that having money in the mix brings. Jul 28 00:26:20 yeah, if we can turn it into everybody wins, it's worth a shot Jul 28 00:26:33 JackieRipper: you around? Jul 28 00:27:55 sup? Jul 28 00:28:06 eno: lol, * cert: server + client certificate (not implemented yet) Jul 28 00:28:10 in vpnc Jul 28 00:28:17 JackieRipper: Have you tested the message sound on 1.1? Jul 28 00:29:00 I updated the patch, but not the wiki page Jul 28 00:29:16 ahh cool, you are my hero Jul 28 00:29:20 JackieRipper: just update the wiki page to point to the patch instead of having it inline. Jul 28 00:29:26 will do Jul 28 00:30:19 xvalentinex: I just did the message tone... if you want to have custom notification and alert sounds, install Keary's MyNotifications Jul 28 00:30:53 the message tone is the most important, and I like having it different from other sounds Jul 28 00:31:18 cool Jul 28 00:31:42 the message forward patch has been updated to forward attachments, too Jul 28 00:31:50 I'm a network engineer and a blaring sound to wake me up at nights Jul 28 00:31:54 though there are a few kinks left to work out Jul 28 00:32:06 I'm a server admin... same deal with me Jul 28 00:32:18 have you seen the pager script from cron? Jul 28 00:32:28 I haven't Jul 28 00:32:52 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pager_Nagger Jul 28 00:34:39 Cool. I'll check it out. Thanks for the patches. Jul 28 00:37:54 cddb Jul 28 00:38:15 JackieRipper: Did you ever manage to solve the notification sound while on a call? Jul 28 00:38:25 destinal: did u check out the patches for visual key-toggle-state? Jul 28 00:38:38 does anyone know what might have changed with the bluetooth on the Pre in the last update that would have stopped the Yamaha NX-B02 speaker from working? it pairs fine, but no sound comes out. Jul 28 00:39:38 Zuchmir2: will check it out Jul 28 00:41:35 ok Jul 28 00:41:53 WillJitsu: pactl list Jul 28 00:41:56 and status Jul 28 00:41:59 I think Jul 28 00:42:10 or is pa used for bluetooth? Jul 28 00:42:34 any idea why the Pre wouldn't ask for the code to pair, but an iPhone would? Jul 28 00:46:00 raeb: http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~massar/vpnc/ "Known Bugs / TODO" Jul 28 00:46:24 thx, checking Jul 28 00:46:30 i think its this: cert auth support missing Jul 28 00:46:32 hehe Jul 28 00:46:45 right Jul 28 00:47:37 adding openssl only enables "hybrid: server certificate + xauth (if built with openssl support)" Jul 28 00:48:02 yeah, not server cert + client cert Jul 28 00:48:09 sorry for taking your time on this, shoulda done my research better Jul 28 00:48:25 it's alright Jul 28 00:51:50 hey guys, looking for some help here Jul 28 00:52:27 I have some apps id like to uninstall because they were installed incorrectly, and cannot be deleted because of it. Jul 28 00:52:33 following these instructions on this post Jul 28 00:52:34 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/192762-why-cant-i-delete-my-homebrew-installed-apps.html#post1755457 Jul 28 00:52:51 I have to cd to the directory he posted Jul 28 00:53:03 bzhou * r10504 optware/trunk/sources/kernel-modules/kirkwood/Makefile: sheevaplug kmods: 2.6.30.2 -> 2.6.30.3 Jul 28 00:53:23 but then in order to delete the application I specify, how can I find the name of the application and how it was installed Jul 28 00:54:06 (example - i want to uninstall webhangman.........and I tried to do the following - rm -rf com.application.webhangman Jul 28 00:54:09 and that did not work Jul 28 00:54:18 is anyone here to help a brotha out :) ? Jul 28 00:55:33 italiano: ipkg -o /var list Jul 28 00:55:51 italiano: or ipkg -o /var list_installed Jul 28 00:56:14 ahhhhhh perfectly easy thank you Jul 28 00:56:20 italiano: you can just hold down the red button and click the app in the GUI to remove it also :) Jul 28 00:56:27 may be a bit easier Jul 28 00:56:29 yeah but i didnt install them Jul 28 00:56:31 orange Jul 28 00:56:32 into /var Jul 28 00:56:35 Has the mediaplayer bookmark patch been updated for 1.1 yet? Jul 28 00:56:37 err orange Jul 28 00:56:39 and the problem is I cant delete it Jul 28 00:56:42 what app? Jul 28 00:56:44 any of them haha Jul 28 00:56:52 italiano: how did you install? Jul 28 00:56:55 were you can click to remove it Jul 28 00:57:03 even if installed in /var? Jul 28 00:57:17 tmzt: you can't click to remove if on rootfs Jul 28 00:57:30 yeah, but what program do you use? Jul 28 00:57:35 b/c rootfs is normally ro so they wouldn't be able to support it Jul 28 00:57:47 italiano: what DID you use that time, so we know where to look? :) Jul 28 00:58:03 italiano: try ipkg list_installed | grep -i hangman Jul 28 00:59:30 i installed it by...copying the ipk to the phone using usb drive......then I cd'd to /media/internal/....ipkg install filename.ipk Jul 28 00:59:49 anddd none of them installed to /var anddd none of them could be deleted! Jul 28 01:00:28 rofl @ ipkg list_installed | grep sprint: Jul 28 01:00:29 sweatshop-sprint-castle - 1.1-14 - Version 1.1-14 of package sweatshop-sprint-castle Jul 28 01:00:52 buncha lil underpaid foriegn kids inside my pre makin it go! Jul 28 01:00:58 bzhou * r10505 optware/trunk/make/lftp.mk: lftp: 3.7.14 -> 3.7.15 Jul 28 01:07:21 did they change the text alert sound? Jul 28 01:07:28 in the 1.10 update? Jul 28 01:08:01 Technobabble: yeah Jul 28 01:08:41 is it weird that i just heard the sounds of a 56k modem Jul 28 01:08:46 though there is no 56k modem near here Jul 28 01:11:45 I had that as an extra annoying ringtone once Jul 28 01:13:35 has anyone successfully gotten the music streamer to play an icecast or shoutcast stream? Jul 28 01:14:09 mine will only go for 7 seconds on them. i tried PocketTunes in Classic and it blew Classic up (PocketTunes played both these streams fine on treo 755p) Jul 28 01:15:03 can't find a commercial version of a non-proprietary music streamer avail yet, nor an open source one. where would I start to see why the built-in one doesn't deal with the streams? Jul 28 01:15:49 mpg123? Jul 28 01:15:54 mplayer? Jul 28 01:16:02 mpg321? Jul 28 01:16:10 i thought of those, but I could not figure out how to output to the pre's pulseaudio Jul 28 01:16:14 curl |mpg321 - maybe Jul 28 01:16:21 libao supports it now I think Jul 28 01:16:21 i tried mp3blaster and mpd, as well Jul 28 01:16:36 they said could not find pulse server or some such. Jul 28 01:16:41 is it on a nonstandard port? Jul 28 01:16:50 you probably need to set an environment variable Jul 28 01:16:57 ask in #pulseaudio? Jul 28 01:17:51 will do. Jul 28 01:18:25 i think my streams probably just need to add or remove some header for the built-in one to work. Jul 28 01:18:40 i need to tcpdump a session with a stream that does work. Jul 28 01:19:14 Where's the launcher icon (if I wanna replace it w/ a diff img.) Jul 28 01:19:52 they're standard mp3 streams (http://65.124.26.30:8000 and http://music.bougyman.com:8443/bougy-low.mp3) Jul 28 01:20:21 tried two different streaming servers, just to troubleshoot... odd that they both have the same result (7 seconds of audio) Jul 28 01:20:36 with any other client they play fine. Jul 28 01:22:50 interesting Jul 28 01:22:57 my pre just froze Jul 28 01:23:02 the app launcher froze Jul 28 01:23:06 i've had that happen. Jul 28 01:23:09 are you in the shell? Jul 28 01:23:17 no, i was just trying to open photos Jul 28 01:23:18 usually it's i/o wait that does it on mine. Jul 28 01:23:31 in the shell top shows java almost always the process doing that. Jul 28 01:23:32 the photos app started to open Jul 28 01:23:39 in the process it froze and both were stuck Jul 28 01:29:43 speaking of the photos ap, how do you create folders in it? Jul 28 01:30:00 Lurking_Grue: I keep meaning to get back around to doing that. Just been busy with PrePod. I'll try to refresh it tomorrow if nobody else hits it. Jul 28 01:32:30 http://anti-analog.com/pp/ Jul 28 01:32:42 lol Jul 28 01:34:04 what are we lookin at here? Jul 28 01:34:31 gnome? Jul 28 01:34:35 nothing, my pre froze so i took a screenshot Jul 28 01:35:57 bbl (commute) Jul 28 01:38:07 james_: Huh, what's the Gnome foot icon - haven't seen that on a pre yet Jul 28 01:38:21 it's my talk button Jul 28 01:38:30 it is just a cool icon Jul 28 01:38:41 james_: Also, you know you can reboot with orange-sym-r? Jul 28 01:38:57 yes Jul 28 01:39:00 (just in case you didn't) Jul 28 01:39:11 james_: eww Jul 28 01:39:34 Weird freeze though :/ Jul 28 01:40:23 thadude, i like it :) Jul 28 01:40:26 someone should type up a list of all key combos on the wiki or somewhere Jul 28 01:41:00 james_: I do like the background, wish to share it? Jul 28 01:41:21 sure, hold on Jul 28 01:41:54 james_: I have only seen a smaller version of the penguin. I like the bigger version, linux is phat. Jul 28 01:42:03 gkatsev: FWIW, there's this - http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/186420-palm-pre-tips-tricks.html Jul 28 01:44:17 http://anti-analog.com/pp/index.php?showimage=4 Jul 28 01:44:36 http://anti-analog.com/pp/index.php?showimage=1 Jul 28 01:44:42 2nd link is the bigger penguin Jul 28 01:45:41 james_: thanks Jul 28 01:45:49 np Jul 28 01:45:54 it was just something i whipped up Jul 28 01:45:57 i like it Jul 28 01:46:17 Gatsev if you wanted to write up that precenttral thread for the wiki and link it under RESEARCH that would be really really nice. Jul 28 01:47:22 gkatsev sorry Jul 28 01:56:07 Hey guys Jul 28 01:56:25 Can anyone tell me why my PALM SDK keeps "rolling back" during installation and telling me it's getting interrupted? Jul 28 01:56:39 xvalentinex: still here? Jul 28 01:57:29 Anyone? Jul 28 01:57:58 have you guys gotten any errors installing tar Jul 28 01:59:42 Epyon1: installing tar or installing from a tarball? Jul 28 01:59:54 installing gnu tar Jul 28 02:00:03 with the ipkg-opt Jul 28 02:00:22 root@castle:~# ipkg-opt install tar Jul 28 02:00:22 Package tar (1.22-2) installed in root is up to date. Jul 28 02:00:22 Configuring bzip2 Jul 28 02:00:22 /opt/bin/update-alternatives: line 185: sed: not found Jul 28 02:00:22 postinst script returned status 127 Jul 28 02:00:23 ERROR: bzip2.postinst returned 127 Jul 28 02:00:25 Configuring tar Jul 28 02:00:27 /opt/bin/update-alternatives: line 185: sed: not found Jul 28 02:00:29 postinst script returned status 127 Jul 28 02:00:31 ERROR: tar.postinst returned 127 Jul 28 02:00:33 sorry little too long Jul 28 02:00:59 thats the second time i tried to install it Jul 28 02:01:02 I haven't tried... what functionality is missing from the busybox version? Jul 28 02:01:42 im trying to install ajaxterm and i think it requires the full tar Jul 28 02:02:20 Does the Palm SDK install on windows 7? Jul 28 02:03:09 Can anyone confirm? Jul 28 02:03:19 idk does it say it works on vista Jul 28 02:04:19 Yes, it says it should work for 32-bit Vista Jul 28 02:04:23 and I'm using 32-bit 7 Jul 28 02:04:36 well 7 is very similar to vista so i would give it a try Jul 28 02:05:11 Yeah, I did Jul 28 02:05:21 everytime I try to install it, it will decompress everything Jul 28 02:05:40 and then during installation it will "roll back" after a while and tell me the installation was interrupted and not installed Jul 28 02:05:51 packed exe? im sorry if im not alot of help i havent installed it Jul 28 02:06:32 No? how do you root? Jul 28 02:06:51 As you may be able to tell; I'm pretty illiterate when it comes to linux and such Jul 28 02:06:52 i used novaterm in linux Jul 28 02:08:27 what do you think roamguard means? Jul 28 02:08:38 Is that with python and such? Jul 28 02:10:27 Rick__: ill see what i can do Jul 28 02:10:36 lol the guy left Jul 28 02:10:46 was just about to answer him Jul 28 02:15:35 Zuchmir2: the visible modifier state is cool Jul 28 02:16:12 hmm...my busybox tar doesnt work Jul 28 02:39:46 JackieRipper: Here now, you around? Jul 28 02:40:30 hi, who are you looking for? Jul 28 02:41:01 JackieRipper Jul 28 02:41:41 not sure if JackieRipper is here... Jul 28 02:44:17 So has anyone been trying to implement the createCalendar function in Mojo? Jul 28 02:50:16 Noob here. Having trouble w/ emulator using "Apply Patches" instructions from Wiki. Jul 28 02:50:53 root@qemux86:/# sudo -i Jul 28 02:50:53 sh: sudo: not found Jul 28 02:50:53 root@qemux86:/# Jul 28 02:50:53 Why does this command fail? Jul 28 02:51:32 Not sure, did you follow the wiki instructions in order? Jul 28 02:51:33 sudo isn't installed on your device ? Jul 28 02:51:49 it doesn't come with sudo standard ... you need to install it Jul 28 02:51:55 SHould I ask this on #WebOS? Jul 28 02:52:26 just ignore the sudo command if you're already root Jul 28 02:52:28 heh Jul 28 02:53:04 Yep, looks like you are in root... Jul 28 02:53:26 you're root by default in the emulator. Jul 28 02:54:15 any one used ajaxterm here? Jul 28 02:54:25 how do i put numbers in Jul 28 02:55:23 I ran both the Optware and Quilt scripts without errors. Is there something else I need to do to install sudo? Jul 28 02:55:50 did you create a new user account Jul 28 02:55:51 Loogie_Pre: you don't need sudo on the emulator Jul 28 02:56:06 oh nvm Jul 28 02:56:07 and those scripts specifically don't install a separate user on the emulator. Jul 28 02:57:07 ahh I was wondering about that, ok, so I should see a user installed when I do it on the Pre? Jul 28 02:57:21 would it screw any thing up if i put a password on root? Jul 28 02:57:44 rwhitby, I really enjoyed your interview on the PalmCast! Jul 28 02:57:47 yeah itll ask you Jul 28 02:58:36 Loogie_Pre: thx Jul 28 02:58:46 Epyon1:you can set up a user name an password Jul 28 02:58:52 This info (regarding emulator differences) would be helpful on the Wiki. I've spent about an hour trying to figure it out. Thanks for the help! Jul 28 02:58:59 i know i have one Jul 28 02:59:10 but i just installed ajaxterm and it goes right into root Jul 28 02:59:14 Epyon1: for Terminal, you should set a password for root now. But don't use root with password with ssh open to the internet. Jul 28 02:59:14 no password Jul 28 02:59:28 yeah i know i use linux all the time Jul 28 02:59:48 Loogie_Pre which wiki page? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 28 02:59:57 2009