**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 28 02:59:57 2009 Jul 28 03:00:24 what is ssh for the novice? Jul 28 03:00:31 ~google ssh Jul 28 03:00:40 do you know what telnet is? Jul 28 03:00:59 infobot: no botsnack for you. Jul 28 03:00:59 rwhitby: thanks Jul 28 03:01:05 Rick: The "Applying Patches" page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches Jul 28 03:01:05 wilco Jul 28 03:01:30 ok, Loogie_Pre -- I see your point. Do you now know what you think it OUGHT to say? Jul 28 03:02:42 Loogie_Pre? Jul 28 03:02:50 do drawers have to be spawned from buttons or can they be spawned from anything Jul 28 03:03:07 drawers are widgets. Jul 28 03:03:13 Rick: Just a note that the sudo -i command is not required for the emulator - that's as far as I've gotten so I'm not sure if there are any other emulator specific differences. Jul 28 03:03:15 they don't have to be spawned, they can just exist. Jul 28 03:03:27 ok Jul 28 03:03:35 has anyone been able to remove a newly created calendar entry with deleteCalendar() in Mojo? Jul 28 03:03:50 Loogie_Pre Ok, since you got the answer from the community, pay it forward and just edit the wiki to fix it. :-) It's a WIKI, we did that on purpose. :-) Jul 28 03:04:43 Rick: I'll do that, thanks! Jul 28 03:05:10 The entry remains in calendar accounts, even though the calendar is disabled... Jul 28 03:05:10 * Rick__ notices that 424 people so far have registered for edit rights on the wiki. Jul 28 03:05:19 any one use ajaxterm? Jul 28 03:05:30 apparently not Epyon1 Jul 28 03:05:39 well not proficiently Jul 28 03:05:41 lol Jul 28 03:05:41 I tried it for a few minutes, but didn't pursue it. Jul 28 03:05:47 i cant put numbers in Jul 28 03:05:51 or symbols Jul 28 03:05:52 ahhh Jul 28 03:05:54 ahhh Jul 28 03:06:01 did you figure that out? Jul 28 03:06:01 no great suprise. It's not done. Jul 28 03:06:09 works good so far Jul 28 03:06:12 lol Jul 28 03:06:17 You could on the other hand, figure out why, and patch it, and post your changes. Jul 28 03:06:24 which would be very nice of you. Jul 28 03:06:47 i might but i dont have alot of time on my hands Jul 28 03:06:57 like the rest of us Epyon1 Jul 28 03:07:00 like the rest of us Jul 28 03:07:25 * Rick__ is happy to notice how well requests to pay it forward are received by this community. :-) Jul 28 03:07:39 i would love to help comlete a terminal if i had time Jul 28 03:08:05 i might take a look at ajax one tomorrow at work Jul 28 03:08:14 tiny bits of time add up. Take a look at the key handlers in the source and see if you see anything. Who knows, 15 minutes might make a miracle happen. Jul 28 03:08:27 Epyon1: it may be modifiers Jul 28 03:08:37 huh? Jul 28 03:08:39 Epyon1: tap the gesture area to make sure it's not gesture locked Jul 28 03:09:05 there is gesture and shift and symbol, all three are metakeys but also can lock with a double click Jul 28 03:09:33 gesture is where the white LED is where you make back / up gestures normally Jul 28 03:09:43 yeah Jul 28 03:09:49 i tapped it Jul 28 03:10:05 somehow managed a ^[ Jul 28 03:10:11 cant reproduce it Jul 28 03:10:22 symbol space is escape Jul 28 03:10:33 gesture and the numbers are arrow keys together Jul 28 03:10:52 thats not workin Jul 28 03:10:57 (which is made of escape and then a key sequence) Jul 28 03:11:12 try throwing away the card and trying again Jul 28 03:11:36 still just typing d Jul 28 03:12:00 just toss card and open another and login, then try Jul 28 03:12:04 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Ajaxterm Jul 28 03:12:11 this is the same one your talking about right? Jul 28 03:12:34 no, I thought you were talking about the Terminal app Jul 28 03:12:45 which one are you talking about Jul 28 03:12:51 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 28 03:12:54 ill try that one out cause this one is incomplete Jul 28 03:13:46 heh, they're all incomplete :-) Jul 28 03:14:18 yeah well Jul 28 03:14:31 lol that one is more complete like numbers Jul 28 03:14:46 which help alot when you have a pw with numbers in it Jul 28 03:16:17 the latest Terminal 1.4 is starting to really come together Jul 28 03:16:39 yeah ive heard the guys talking on this ch earlier today Jul 28 03:17:10 they're doing an amazing job Jul 28 03:17:51 lol i love how i made it so simple to ssh into my pre now Jul 28 03:18:02 all i type is ssh pre -p222 Jul 28 03:21:20 Epyon1: make it even simpler... echo "Host pre" >> ~/.ssh/config ; echo Port 222 >> ~/.ssh/config Jul 28 03:21:33 then you can just "ssh pre" Jul 28 03:21:40 haha nice Jul 28 03:22:11 awesome work fellas on the new Terminal!! It's fantastic Jul 28 03:22:22 im installing it right now Jul 28 03:22:29 i prefer the word fantabulous but whatever Jul 28 03:22:45 awesome1337ness Jul 28 03:24:33 can i do real VI in terminal? Jul 28 03:24:42 yes Jul 28 03:24:49 and vim too Jul 28 03:24:53 60 sec timeout Jul 28 03:24:56 wtf Jul 28 03:24:57 yes, but your hand will cramp Jul 28 03:25:07 lol Jul 28 03:25:16 if that happens just switch to your toes Jul 28 03:27:37 emacs work in terminal too, but you have to click back in the window after hitting escape in the emulator. Jul 28 03:27:43 is there any way to get the screen to fit better? Jul 28 03:28:35 mine hangs off the bottom a little and its hard to read the corner on vi Jul 28 03:30:12 Epyon1: that's a bug Jul 28 03:30:37 k Jul 28 03:30:52 destinal do you know whats causing it? i might take a look at the source Jul 28 03:32:03 I think it is an issue where the browser is slightly misreporting the actual useable window size so if we draw to use the whole thing we overdraw, but you might try cross-compiling git HEAD and trying it, Zuchmir2 said he was working on stuff earlier Jul 28 03:32:12 it may be fixed in the repository Jul 28 03:32:23 ah ok Jul 28 03:32:55 amazing how fast a nightly build is out of date on this project -- it's wonderful really :) Jul 28 03:33:00 lol Jul 28 03:33:21 JackieRipper: Hey man, sorry I missed you earlier Jul 28 03:33:22 man get an osk working for this and use it in landscapemode im in heaven Jul 28 03:33:31 no worries Jul 28 03:33:40 looks awesome in landscape mode Jul 28 03:33:59 I wanted to let you know I'm working on the sound during call Jul 28 03:34:14 JackieRipper: You are amazing. Jul 28 03:34:18 what does that mean? Jul 28 03:35:06 Let me know if I can do anything to help. Besides java programming :) Just bought some books on it though. Jul 28 03:35:35 java is ez Jul 28 03:36:04 Epyon1: there's use for java in services on the pre, so your skills should serve you well Jul 28 03:36:12 I hope so. I've always been a scripter though. I know a little bit of python and it seems similar Jul 28 03:36:48 yeah time is always a factor during the summer im working alot and school year im always busy Jul 28 03:36:51 JackieRipper: sorry, what do you mean by audio during calls? Jul 28 03:37:12 but as long as i have the phone i should be putting my 2cents in every so often Jul 28 03:37:16 tmzt: stopping the message tone from playing during a call Jul 28 03:37:27 it does play? Jul 28 03:37:31 yes Jul 28 03:37:37 annoyingly so Jul 28 03:38:01 it's not noticeable with the two ding, but if you have sirens, it's interesting to hear what the other party says. Jul 28 03:38:26 xvalentinex: it plays *into* the call? Jul 28 03:38:32 or on the handset monitor / speaker Jul 28 03:38:50 well if you have it loud enough it plays through the speaker and into the mic Jul 28 03:39:07 ah Jul 28 03:39:21 that really shouldn't happen Jul 28 03:39:51 some kind of pulseaudio command to stop the sound and reenable it later would be good, or maybe there's a service that will do that for you Jul 28 03:40:00 as a workaround you could just flip vibrate mode while talking Jul 28 03:40:12 yeah, but dsp and mixer should handle things like this Jul 28 03:40:45 No, for some reason vibrate mode doesn't work while on a call Jul 28 03:41:14 I don't know if that was an older message sound patch, or is a pre default Jul 28 03:41:34 or is currently that way, I just applied JackieRipper's patch today Jul 28 03:49:10 is it just me or does terminal seem to really lag when you press the menu Jul 28 03:49:43 hrmm, I thought an update earlier fixed pipe right? Jul 28 03:52:57 can/does anyone want to help me get ssh working on my pre? Jul 28 03:54:06 i installed the optware-bootstrap ok and dropbear should be installed, but after i run "initctl start optware-dropbear" when running "ps aux Jul 28 03:54:11 | grep dropbear" Jul 28 03:54:18 it doesnt show up. Jul 28 03:54:39 ssh -p 222 returns a "connection refused" Jul 28 03:56:34 destinal just so you know i found a bug in nano it doesnt display returns unless you rotate the window Jul 28 04:01:53 does anyone here know where i should submit suggestions for the terminal app? Jul 28 04:02:17 i know destinal was working on it Jul 28 04:02:33 ericwait: yeah, go ahead Jul 28 04:02:35 i think the wiki Jul 28 04:02:43 gkatsev: do you get a bunch of start messages after starting Jul 28 04:02:44 wiki works as well Jul 28 04:02:50 xvalentinex: yes Jul 28 04:03:16 optware-dropbear (start) running, process 15071 Jul 28 04:03:18 but mrvc and Zuchmir2 and myself work on terminal, and others as well Jul 28 04:03:25 i am just concerned that you can log on as root w/o a password Jul 28 04:03:42 i gave my root a password Jul 28 04:03:42 ericwait: a few things Jul 28 04:03:51 gkatsev: Occasionally, I have to start do an activity on the Pre before I can connect Jul 28 04:03:52 i have a root password too Jul 28 04:03:58 ericwait: which version are you running? Jul 28 04:04:04 sushi2: what do you mean? Jul 28 04:04:10 gkatsev: are you using wifi? Jul 28 04:04:13 sushi2: yes Jul 28 04:04:14 version 1.1 Jul 28 04:04:20 ericwait: we're up to 1.4 Jul 28 04:04:29 gkatsev: can you ping the ip of the Pre? Jul 28 04:04:33 yes Jul 28 04:04:34 s/1./0.1./ Jul 28 04:04:34 destinal meant: ericwait: we're up to 0.1.4 Jul 28 04:04:35 oh you mean of term not pre Jul 28 04:04:42 of term Jul 28 04:04:49 i can ping both ways Jul 28 04:05:06 gkatsev: great - what OS are you running on your PC Jul 28 04:05:12 linux Jul 28 04:05:17 i just installed two sec ago so i am assuming the .1.4 but let me check Jul 28 04:05:18 ericwait: it does prompt for username and password Jul 28 04:05:26 ubuntu jaunty, currently connected via novaterm Jul 28 04:05:26 gkatsev: and what port are you connecting to on the Pre? Jul 28 04:05:38 222 Jul 28 04:06:20 it prompts for username and no password for root but it does for my other user Jul 28 04:06:40 gkatsev: tried rebooting the Pre yet? Jul 28 04:06:50 yes... Jul 28 04:07:17 gkatsev: odd - I'm using dropbear on mine, but connecting via Putty/Windows XP Jul 28 04:07:25 destinal, is there any magic I have to do to clean up my install of terminal? I tried doing the full uninstall/rm'ing stuff but still reinstalling, no fix for pipe Jul 28 04:07:44 gkatsev: you might check through the dropbear instructions and make sure there weren't any missed steps - it should work Jul 28 04:07:54 psykoz: that's because you're running the latest build on the feed and it doesn't have the fix Jul 28 04:07:58 i used optware-bootstrap Jul 28 04:08:11 psykoz: if anyone says it's fixed its because they're working out of the git source code repositories Jul 28 04:08:22 destinal, oh I thought I saw Zuchmir2 say he pushed fix for pipe and underscore, guess probably to the repository is what he meant Jul 28 04:08:27 right Jul 28 04:08:32 gkatsev: ahhh - I haven't attempted that method Jul 28 04:09:02 let me try to manually reinstall it or something Jul 28 04:09:12 destinal: will the root thing fix itself with a reboot? or does this happen to anyone else? Jul 28 04:09:30 ericwait: did you install fresh as 0.1.4 or upgrade? Jul 28 04:10:00 destinal: this would have been fresh Jul 28 04:10:03 man you know youve been using the terminal too much when you try to type exit in an aim window Jul 28 04:10:14 or ^o to save somthing Jul 28 04:10:17 gkatsev: Not sure if this exists - but is there an auth.log in /var/log on the Pre that mentions why the connection is failing? Jul 28 04:10:39 ericwait: and you've run passwd root at some point to set a root pw? Jul 28 04:11:17 is it possible to input a pipe ( | ) in the terminal app Jul 28 04:11:32 destinal: yes, unless when the 1.1 webos was pushed out... it wouldn't have changed that? Jul 28 04:11:45 ericwait: it may have, I'd run passwd root just to make sure Jul 28 04:11:58 somebody please help me. Jul 28 04:12:00 destinal: let me run it again... back in a sec Jul 28 04:12:08 xvalentinex: it should be orange + period Jul 28 04:12:13 larrysteeze whats up Jul 28 04:12:20 i just got engaged. Jul 28 04:12:35 ...ok Jul 28 04:12:35 LarrySteeze: congratulations! Jul 28 04:12:38 lol Jul 28 04:12:39 larrysteeze, grats ;) Jul 28 04:12:49 hmmm orange + . doesn't seem to work for me Jul 28 04:12:49 marriage is grand Jul 28 04:12:53 divorce is 10 grand, if you're lucky Jul 28 04:12:55 LarrySteeze: Hahah - and you rushed on here to tell us? Congrats! Jul 28 04:12:56 haha Jul 28 04:12:59 thank you :-) Jul 28 04:12:59 xvalentinex: | is unfortunately broken in 0.1.4 -- a regression caused by a complete change to the way we handle keystroke events Jul 28 04:13:03 congrats man Jul 28 04:13:07 thought you needed help Jul 28 04:13:08 no, i didn't rush in here Jul 28 04:13:12 seriously?! Don't the palm people realize that "ill" is a word, and that it should NOT be auto corrected into "i'll" Jul 28 04:13:13 i just got back home Jul 28 04:13:23 Technobabble: is this a new change? Jul 28 04:13:23 Technobabble: So fix it. Jul 28 04:13:23 and Jul 28 04:13:24 hahaha Jul 28 04:13:28 Technobabble: it never used to do that Jul 28 04:13:29 i've had a couple drink Jul 28 04:13:29 s Jul 28 04:13:36 but i love you guys Jul 28 04:13:45 is there a new version of term with the fixed | avail via the ipkg /var install? Jul 28 04:13:48 LarrySteeze: good, if you hadn't had a couple of drinks something would be wrong with you :) Jul 28 04:13:49 more than a couple by the sounds of it Jul 28 04:13:52 destinal, the 1.10 does it Jul 28 04:14:06 and seriously, i was just talking about preware and the feed and stuff....so i figured i may as well come tell you guys Jul 28 04:14:12 Technobabble: what's 1.10 ? Jul 28 04:14:16 oh 1.1 Jul 28 04:14:43 oh technobabble Jul 28 04:14:47 yes? Jul 28 04:14:48 LarrySteeze: cool, that's awesome. Jul 28 04:14:50 i thought you were talking about templarian :S Jul 28 04:14:59 *sigh* Jul 28 04:15:14 LarrySteeze: I'd be excited and nervous as hell all at once. and several drinks may be needed :) Jul 28 04:15:21 yeah Jul 28 04:15:29 i kind of feel bad about being here after a couple drinks Jul 28 04:15:32 i'm talking about the auto correct being changed in 1.10 to make it to where "ill" autocorrects into "i'll" even though "ill" is a word Jul 28 04:15:39 but i really, oddly, wanted to tell rod Jul 28 04:15:55 oddly because i have only had a couple conversations with him, ever. Jul 28 04:16:11 that's just the alcohol Jul 28 04:16:17 rwhitby: ping? Jul 28 04:16:18 yeah...not really. Jul 28 04:16:38 when i said a couple drinks, i really meant a couple. I'm not drunk Jul 28 04:17:08 I was just about to propose to my girlfriend but we separated ;( Jul 28 04:17:15 i'm sorry man Jul 28 04:17:19 * Templarian gets excited when he gets highlighted. Jul 28 04:17:29 lol...I like you Templarian Jul 28 04:17:37 Technobabble http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Add_Words_to_AutoCorrect_Dictionary Jul 28 04:17:39 I even had Duke Nukem record my proposal message Jul 28 04:17:39 destinal: syn|ack Jul 28 04:17:43 ooh, PreGame is online again. Jul 28 04:17:44 Epyon1, already there Jul 28 04:17:47 lol Jul 28 04:17:53 rwhitby: yo Jul 28 04:18:02 rwhitby: psh|ack Jul 28 04:18:03 Technobabble ok cool just makin sure Jul 28 04:18:09 thank you though Jul 28 04:18:10 destinal: passwd did the trick, 1.1 must have done something. not to happy when an update opens up security Jul 28 04:18:10 haha Jul 28 04:18:10 rwhitby: Larry had news Jul 28 04:18:10 <-- is too much of a nerd Jul 28 04:18:25 what's the news? Jul 28 04:18:28 I know LarrySteeze. :) Jul 28 04:18:30 I just got engaged. Jul 28 04:18:40 LarrySteeze: congrats Jul 28 04:18:43 thanks Jul 28 04:18:48 to a woman, or a Pre? Jul 28 04:18:48 ericwait i think its like a semi image for updates so it just sets alot of stuff to default Jul 28 04:18:55 LOL Jul 28 04:18:58 haha Jul 28 04:19:00 what if he got engaged to a woman with a Pre? Jul 28 04:19:03 well Jul 28 04:19:04 oooo Jul 28 04:19:07 psykoz: even better Jul 28 04:19:12 sadly, a woman with an iPhone. Jul 28 04:19:16 ewww Jul 28 04:19:19 whoa Jul 28 04:19:19 yuck Jul 28 04:19:24 wait, it gets worse Jul 28 04:19:26 and you wanna marry her? Jul 28 04:19:31 i BOUGHT her the iPhone...last december. Jul 28 04:19:31 turn back before it's too late! Jul 28 04:19:35 lol Jul 28 04:19:39 destinal: thanks for the help Jul 28 04:19:39 The only thing semi-redeemable about iPhone is it runs BSD Jul 28 04:19:40 LarrySteeze: ah, it's ok then :) Jul 28 04:19:43 oh lawrds Jul 28 04:19:45 BEFORE I knew the Pre was coming...i didn't find out till January. Jul 28 04:19:52 haha Jul 28 04:20:06 well now that your engaged you get a plan for the both of you Jul 28 04:20:08 but if it makes you feel better, I bought Palm stock in Dec. at $2 a share. Jul 28 04:20:09 on sprint Jul 28 04:20:28 whats it at now? Jul 28 04:20:31 LarrySteeze: No excuse. ;) Jul 28 04:20:35 last i looked, 15 Jul 28 04:20:41 nice Jul 28 04:20:50 yeah but i didn't buy much Jul 28 04:20:51 LarrySteeze: are you asking for a PreNuptial ? Jul 28 04:20:52 how much did you buy? Jul 28 04:20:53 oh Jul 28 04:20:55 hahaha Jul 28 04:20:56 LOL! Jul 28 04:21:05 rwhitby, nice Jul 28 04:21:05 I bought 250 shares Jul 28 04:21:08 omg bad pre jokes are starting to come out Jul 28 04:21:08 since hte Pre was annouced last june Jul 28 04:21:12 it's all I could afford at the time Jul 28 04:21:23 thats not bad you still made a decent amount of money Jul 28 04:21:25 Epyon1: I'm done ;-) Jul 28 04:21:28 the pre certainly wasn't announced in june, was it? Jul 28 04:21:39 is there a way to reauthenticate the RSA host key? Jul 28 04:21:40 i didn't learn about it until CES Jul 28 04:22:08 either way Jul 28 04:22:12 guys, I'm getting married. Jul 28 04:22:15 yeah Jul 28 04:22:17 haha Jul 28 04:22:26 and i'm happy about it. Jul 28 04:22:32 at D:Everything Digital or whatever it's called Jul 28 04:22:33 seriously. Jul 28 04:22:39 LarrySteeze, be careful, as to not get her Pre-gnant yet Jul 28 04:22:46 hahahahah Jul 28 04:22:48 *sigh* that was just bad. Jul 28 04:22:48 rofl Jul 28 04:22:54 ugh Jul 28 04:23:08 so I thought Palm (PAM/PLMO)) would have alreaay gone up Jul 28 04:23:41 so was the pre considered a hit by sprint and palm? Jul 28 04:23:45 it was at 18 aat one point Jul 28 04:24:06 would i have to reboot to have the auto replace file changes take effect? Jul 28 04:24:23 rwhitby: do you have the feed all covered now or do you still need help? Jul 28 04:24:37 * destinal Epyon1 they're saying it's "too early to call" Jul 28 04:24:52 LarrySteeze: we're covered - go celebrate with your fiance. Jul 28 04:24:58 I called it one, does that count? :) Jul 28 04:24:58 shes not here Jul 28 04:25:06 psykoz: OS X is a lousy BSD Jul 28 04:25:09 i was celebrating with her for the last few hours Jul 28 04:25:15 destinal ah ok not that early things are starting to calm down for the pre sales Jul 28 04:25:23 quotemstr, I'm saying the only half-redeeming part Jul 28 04:25:30 Epyon1: well with AT&T and Verizon lining up Jul 28 04:25:31 i didn't mean tonight, rwhitby, i meant in general Jul 28 04:25:33 things will keep going Jul 28 04:25:38 yeah Jul 28 04:25:40 destinal: I think I'll start looking into multi-card support Jul 28 04:25:43 "celebrating" Jul 28 04:25:53 psykoz: Yeah. At least it's not a Android, with its completely novel and bizarre userland. Jul 28 04:26:00 haha Jul 28 04:26:05 mrvc: rick recommended a fix on that, just create a new stage and push the scene to it Jul 28 04:26:10 uugggghhh android userland Jul 28 04:26:13 mrvc: I was working on it last night when something came up Jul 28 04:26:26 alright everyone, i'm going to leave you now. Jul 28 04:26:28 sweet! Jul 28 04:26:38 thank you for the congrats. Jul 28 04:26:38 LarrySteeze: congrats again man, have a good night Jul 28 04:26:39 destinal: ok, I could work on something else Jul 28 04:26:43 have a wonderful evening. Jul 28 04:26:43 reinstalling optware-dropbear made ssh work Jul 28 04:26:45 congrats man Jul 28 04:26:51 thank you :-) Jul 28 04:26:53 ill edit the wiki with the tip Jul 28 04:27:02 keep plugging away, i'll see you tomorrow. Jul 28 04:27:07 mrvc: are the issues with the cut off at the bottom still there, haven't checked the commits Jul 28 04:27:10 :-) Jul 28 04:27:21 where should i add it? Jul 28 04:27:22 * destinal cheers LarrySteeze Jul 28 04:27:23 ugh need to go to bed i have work tomorrow early Jul 28 04:27:36 destinal: I'm not familiar with that Jul 28 04:27:44 ill cya guys around probally be on tomorrow Jul 28 04:27:58 mrvc: the bottom line of text tends to get cut off Jul 28 04:28:19 only if there's a notification at the bottom, isn't it? Jul 28 04:28:31 I don't think I had one Jul 28 04:28:35 X1011: are you around? Jul 28 04:28:44 destinal: where should i add the tip that forcing reinstall of dropbear will fix ssh not working if everything looks like it should? Jul 28 04:28:46 rwhitby: yes Jul 28 04:28:50 destinal: I haven't seen that... under what conditions? Jul 28 04:29:03 i just see the "BOTTOM" bar thing and text above it, unless there's a notification, in which case no BOTTOM bar Jul 28 04:29:23 mrvc: just seemed to happen, don't know. I think we need to avoid the top and bottom rather than having DOM elements try to do it for us Jul 28 04:29:32 X1011: what's the outstanding points to make a decision on regarding wiki policy? Jul 28 04:29:34 they're not working at this point reliably Jul 28 04:30:03 rwhitby: what do you mean? Jul 28 04:30:05 X1011: (i.e. on which items is there not consensus yet) Jul 28 04:30:46 destinal: the "Bottom" text was a placeholder. I was planning on adding the buttons there. Jul 28 04:31:03 we need to somehow keep them from scrolling then Jul 28 04:31:06 buttons? Jul 28 04:31:19 why is the size wrong? Jul 28 04:31:22 destinal: when the bottom text gets clipped, does flicking upward fix it? Jul 28 04:31:24 have you found that? Jul 28 04:31:32 mrvc: yes until it scrolls down on its own Jul 28 04:31:32 mrvc: it does for me Jul 28 04:31:41 with more text Jul 28 04:31:51 epv: do you know how to make it happen? Jul 28 04:31:57 let me see. Jul 28 04:32:13 now that i'm trying to, i doubt it. heh Jul 28 04:33:13 rwhitby: i don't think anything proposed on the talk page has reached consensus yet Jul 28 04:33:45 mrvc: what was the 5px thing that was just changed again Jul 28 04:33:49 could that be it? Jul 28 04:33:52 mrvc: yeah. open a terminal, get text on the last line... then open the clock app and turn on an alarm (or anything else to get a notification at the bottom) then go back to the terminal scree Jul 28 04:34:00 a pixel or two of the bottom line are cut off Jul 28 04:34:16 seems pretty innocuous to me Jul 28 04:34:22 epv: oh, so it is cutt off by the notification? Jul 28 04:34:27 yeha Jul 28 04:34:29 it was worse for me Jul 28 04:34:52 X1011: ok, perhaps we can find a time when all the people involved are on-line here and can discuss in real time rather than on talk pages. Jul 28 04:36:06 destinal: was it the notification in your case also? Jul 28 04:36:07 rwhitby: ok, but afterwards i'll post the log and wait a day or so in case anyone missed it Jul 28 04:36:14 mrvc: I don't think so Jul 28 04:37:08 actually maybe so Jul 28 04:37:22 notification icons are easy to forget about Jul 28 04:38:02 I discovered something this weekend. Extreme heat makes the case expand and flipping open the Pre causes it to disengage the power somehow. I fixed it by folding up a post-it note between the case and the battery. Jul 28 04:39:03 a lot of people have been complaining about that on precentral Jul 28 04:39:08 i dunno if heat is required Jul 28 04:39:23 i stuck a piece of tape on my battery and its been fine Jul 28 04:39:26 seems like there's a fix in a new battery Jul 28 04:39:40 they make one that fits more securely Jul 28 04:39:47 oh good Jul 28 04:40:00 the battery contacts aren't great either Jul 28 04:40:58 X1011: ok, let's do that. Jul 28 04:50:53 Mine has worked fine since I bought it at the beginning of the month. This weekend it finally got super hot (35C) and it started happening spontaneously. It only happened during the day. Expanding case is a pretty likely scenario when heat is applied. Jul 28 04:55:29 so anyway... is there a better SSH shell than webshell or ajaxPHPterm? Jul 28 04:55:54 install openssh + Terminal - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 28 04:56:12 thx Jul 28 04:56:29 dropbear is better, if you dont need sftp Jul 28 04:56:53 oh nice, i'm gonna totally do that right now Jul 28 04:56:54 and by better i mean, it just uses half the resources for 98% of the features Jul 28 04:58:28 I need an ssh client from the pre. I already have openssh running otherwise. Jul 28 04:58:35 Isn't dropbear an ssh server? Jul 28 04:58:55 dropbear does it all, except sftp Jul 28 04:58:59 scp works Jul 28 04:59:32 does it have an ssh shell app that I can access from the pre? Jul 28 04:59:59 well, you can use ssh via the terminal app above Jul 28 05:00:25 dropbear is an alternative to openssh which is useful on the phone because it uses less resources than openssh Jul 28 05:01:00 man the homebrew forums has just really blown up with apps Jul 28 05:01:08 This probably makes Palm happy in a weird way Jul 28 05:02:18 gkatsev: I know this, I need an ssh app that I can access from the phone so I can operate servers while driving my car and drinking my latte. Jul 28 05:02:36 bouquet, if you already have openssh then you're fine Jul 28 05:02:43 psykoz: Link? Jul 28 05:02:44 because terminal + running ssh will allow you to connect outbound Jul 28 05:02:52 quotemstr, http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/ Jul 28 05:03:28 bouquet, openssh is not only a ssh daemon for accepting ssh connections, it also is an ssh client Jul 28 05:03:33 psykoz: Thanks. Jul 28 05:03:49 This is amazing. Jul 28 05:04:03 terminal is pretty badass Jul 28 05:04:05 I thought tethering wasn't allowed as a subject of conversation here or on the forums though. Jul 28 05:04:06 naturally, but how on earth do you bring up a terminal on the Pre without an ssh app? Jul 28 05:04:20 Technobabble: The latest version? I still need to try it out. Jul 28 05:04:27 bouquet, a terminal app is just a tty Jul 28 05:04:34 Technobabble: If for nothing other than the, "can your iphone do this?" factor. :-) Jul 28 05:04:37 the one they just posted Jul 28 05:04:47 i thought the iphone had a terminal... Jul 28 05:05:21 Right, that's why I'm install the terminal app. There isn't one otherwise. Jul 28 05:05:26 it has terminal apps, but i think they can only do ssh or something like that Jul 28 05:05:39 * psykoz facepalms Jul 28 05:05:58 a terminal is just a connection to a tty, think of it like a serial console on a cisco, just not thorugh a serial cable Jul 28 05:06:08 all a terminal does is connects to tty0, tty1, tty2, etc Jul 28 05:06:29 telnet and ssh are protocols that are capable of relaying a terminal across networks Jul 28 05:06:31 psykoz: I know this, but I have to install it myself. You're talking like I have this capability because I'm already running dropbear or openssh. Jul 28 05:06:44 yeah Jul 28 05:06:48 AFAIK, there's no local terminal for the iPhone. Jul 28 05:07:03 quotemstr, someone told me there was Jul 28 05:07:14 bouquet, you already have this capability because you're running openssh, you install the terminal app on your Pre, and then since you have openssh you run /opt/bin/ssh or wherever the file is located (find / -name ssh) Jul 28 05:07:22 but maybe it was just a "nuh uh! mine has it too" in response to me saying my phone had one Jul 28 05:07:24 Technobabble: That's news to me. Jul 28 05:07:37 Technobabble: But we don't need to jailbreak out phones. :-) Jul 28 05:07:48 yeah, i think they had to jailbreak it Jul 28 05:07:53 not even sure what that means, anyway Jul 28 05:08:03 psykoz: ya, that's what I said. I think you misunderstood me. Just installing openssh or dropbear alone does not give you terminal access. You have to install the app posted earlier. Jul 28 05:08:40 I don't see a terminal on the homebrew page. Jul 28 05:08:43 Where can I find it exactly? Jul 28 05:08:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 28 05:09:01 quotemstr: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 28 05:09:01 bouquet, which is what I said from the getgo, install openssh + terminal, there's no point in having a one app to rule them all when openssh and dropbear are perfectly fine ssh clients, why reinvent the wheel? terminal+ssh is a great point-a-b solution Jul 28 05:09:24 quotemstr, url bouquet pasted is where you get instructions to install terminal Jul 28 05:09:47 Thank you. Jul 28 05:10:00 psykoz: gotcha. I think we were talking about the same thing and I just wasn't clear. tty is the way to go. Jul 28 05:10:04 psykoz: cuz lol i use putty on windows and can't wrap my head around a local pty lololol Jul 28 05:10:31 quotemstr, have you ever used putty tray instead? Jul 28 05:10:34 much better than putty Jul 28 05:10:42 http://haanstra.eu/putty/ Jul 28 05:10:44 You realize that was snark, right? Jul 28 05:10:54 ;) Jul 28 05:11:20 putty is a mediocre terminal emulator attached to a half-decent ssh client. I'd much rather be using cygwin and win32 rxvt. Jul 28 05:11:29 (Along with real openssh, that is.) Jul 28 05:11:37 i really dont like cygwin... Jul 28 05:11:53 my only complaing with cygwin is their installer interface Jul 28 05:12:08 Cygwin's package manager is horrific and non-scriptable, yes. Jul 28 05:12:08 god this terminal is sexy Jul 28 05:12:13 But the installed system isn't half bad. Jul 28 05:12:18 if they would clean it up some, and have a redistributable version I'd be happy as hell Jul 28 05:12:43 instead if you want to push it out to multiple machines you're spent replicating the effort on each machine individually (or at least the last time I used it) Jul 28 05:12:48 which sucked Jul 28 05:13:09 love it! Terminal is awesome! Thanks for the link Jul 28 05:13:27 bouquet, np Jul 28 05:14:41 Sym-I is the tab? Jul 28 05:14:46 yes Jul 28 05:14:48 Why did you license Terminal under the GPLv2, not v3? Jul 28 05:15:18 do i hold sym down and press i? Jul 28 05:15:43 that works, but i think pressing them in sequence also works Jul 28 05:16:13 oh, i have to hold it Jul 28 05:16:31 ok Jul 28 05:16:43 good to know Jul 28 05:17:50 sup guys Jul 28 05:17:52 This tty should be frontpaged at the webos-internals site. This is a key app. Jul 28 05:18:09 Bouquet: Not for most people it isn't. Jul 28 05:18:35 It's a terminal emulator. Most people couldn't give the right definitions of those words alone, much less together. Jul 28 05:18:43 haha Jul 28 05:18:46 sad but true Jul 28 05:19:04 I think the people who find themselves at webos-internals are the types that could use a tty on their phone. Jul 28 05:19:31 it is under linux apps Jul 28 05:19:44 there's talk of a implementing a featured article on the main page's talk page Jul 28 05:20:22 i personally think this one is a "front and center" app Jul 28 05:21:00 How do I stop the goddamn wall messages about going to sleep and waking up? Jul 28 05:21:04 They're interrupting my ssh session. Jul 28 05:21:13 plug your phone into the USB Jul 28 05:21:25 * quotemstr tries hacking syslog. Jul 28 05:21:29 or put it into touchstone Jul 28 05:21:33 s/into/on Jul 28 05:22:14 I really don't see why those messages need to be LOG_EMERG Jul 28 05:23:43 anyone know where i can read up on printing stuff like #{title} the term for it so i can look it up? Jul 28 05:23:55 sweet! vim on my phone Jul 28 05:25:31 Err, my terminal window is screwy Jul 28 05:25:38 The text just floats off the bottom of the window Jul 28 05:25:45 quotemstr: probably easiest to edit /usr/sbin/suspend_action Jul 28 05:25:52 and comment out the wall message Jul 28 05:26:20 Thanks. Jul 28 05:26:22 Done Jul 28 05:26:23 sure Jul 28 05:26:46 X1011: the featured items idea is one that I want to see implemented Jul 28 05:26:57 it was both funny and super annoying with the wall messages Jul 28 05:27:30 That tweak to /usr/sbin/suspend_action sounds like a good patch for the repo, it was annoying me earlier Jul 28 05:28:23 there are a few other things like that that are easy but hard to find Jul 28 05:28:43 like by default the bluetooth headset volume is 86% and there's no way to change it afaict Jul 28 05:28:54 That's the kind of thing that should go through syslog. That's what syslog is *there* for. Jul 28 05:28:54 Does that message tell you anything useful? seemed like debugging Jul 28 05:29:08 other than by changing the value in an sqlite db Jul 28 05:29:09 Then you can just edit syslog.conf to customize where the message goes instead of having to tinker with system programs. Jul 28 05:29:24 it *also* goes through syslog, i think, in some form Jul 28 05:29:40 pre doesn't really use a normal syslogd Jul 28 05:30:00 hrm, you're right. I don't see one running. Jul 28 05:30:36 they use a modified version Jul 28 05:30:39 called pmsyslogd Jul 28 05:30:46 pm presumably is Palm Jul 28 05:30:53 they have lots of utilitys prefixed with pm Jul 28 05:31:21 Yay for NIH syndrome Jul 28 05:31:37 well if that were true Jul 28 05:31:41 they wouldn't have used linux ;) Jul 28 05:31:42 palm seems to have been really good with the NIH syndrome overall... have oyu looked at android?? Jul 28 05:32:00 palm is practically a standard distro by comparison Jul 28 05:32:11 also webos is like android but done by grownups Jul 28 05:32:26 Right. Jul 28 05:32:30 I shouldn't complain. Jul 28 05:32:32 :-) Jul 28 05:32:43 Palm doesn't have a full-fledged outbreak. Jul 28 05:32:46 Not sure why android was touted so much as "linux" Jul 28 05:32:49 But there are a couple scattered blisters. Jul 28 05:33:02 even the java dialect seems like alien technlology Jul 28 05:33:21 that's because google is so brilliant they can do everything better than everyone else. :) Jul 28 05:33:23 lmorchard: Supposedly, Android's Java is a registed-based VM instead of a stack-based one Jul 28 05:33:35 Supposedly it's indistinguishable from a regular one most of the time. Jul 28 05:33:37 And smaller. Jul 28 05:33:43 (I don't buy it: more NIH) Jul 28 05:33:48 Symbian suffers from the same proble. Jul 28 05:33:51 problem, dammit. Jul 28 05:34:03 In the mobile phone world, we're going through exactly the same thing unix went through in the 80s. Jul 28 05:34:05 also my android phone sent hundreds of kb of encrypted data to google every day, which made me nervous, because wtf? Jul 28 05:34:11 Zillions of incompatible proprietary platforms. Jul 28 05:34:19 epv: I didn't know that. That's disturbing. Jul 28 05:34:35 it was to me too Jul 28 05:34:38 I kinda keep waiting for the other shoe to drop from palm - no one can really deliver embedded linux on a cell phone, can they? heh Jul 28 05:34:40 i sol it Jul 28 05:34:42 sold Jul 28 05:34:47 epv, that would scare the crap outa me Jul 28 05:35:02 lmorchard: I'm amazed Sprint hasn't thrown a bit. Jul 28 05:35:03 err, fit. Jul 28 05:35:15 epv: palm does much the same. looked at rdxd? Jul 28 05:35:20 I hope they don't... it pretty much kept me on their network Jul 28 05:35:30 I mean, I'm actually able to remove the 'Sprint' application that just links to Sprint's website. That must make some marketdroid somewhere twitch. Jul 28 05:35:32 yeah i turned off a lot of the things in rdxd :) Jul 28 05:35:38 are any of you guys ryin to replace the ssh keys on the phone and decrypt the update and stuff Jul 28 05:35:54 I love fakesteve's blog on google chrome OS Jul 28 05:36:00 Technobabble: there's a wiki page on how to do a MITM attack on that. Jul 28 05:36:01 Technobabble: Why would you need to decrypt it? It's right there in plain sight on the installed system, isn't it? Jul 28 05:36:02 i think that's been done, there's a mitm capture of it posted somewhere Jul 28 05:36:17 i thought there was other stuff they were up to Jul 28 05:36:24 the traffic with palm is encrypted Jul 28 05:36:25 Rdxd? Jul 28 05:36:36 rdxd is palms diag call-home thing Jul 28 05:36:58 when certain things crash it makes a little tarball of current system state for debugging and sends it to palm Jul 28 05:37:04 or tries to, it seems to fail more often than not Jul 28 05:37:26 epv: You can't mean it actually tars up the filesystem and sends that, can you? Jul 28 05:37:40 Honestly, Google, is there anyone in charge over there? Is there anyone who knows how to criticize anything in that fucked up little Montessori preschool of yours? Jul 28 05:37:43 no, just things like the java vm stderr logs and stuff Jul 28 05:37:43 -FakeSteve Jul 28 05:37:48 http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2009/07/lets-all-take-deep-breath-and-get-some.html Jul 28 05:37:54 haha Jul 28 05:38:16 rdxd is at least not at all obfuscated and you can easily edit rdxd.conf to comment out anything you don't want it sharing Jul 28 05:38:50 psykoz: But, but, gourmet chef! Jul 28 05:39:10 quotemstr: it sends your nearest wifi bssid's too Jul 28 05:39:16 and your ps -ef output Jul 28 05:39:29 Yeah, that's it, I'm turning the damn thing off. Jul 28 05:39:33 and your phone number and serial Jul 28 05:39:35 haha Jul 28 05:39:41 and the name of your cat Jul 28 05:39:57 Can I just set AutoUpload=false Jul 28 05:39:58 ? Jul 28 05:40:05 i think so Jul 28 05:42:01 i'm mostly happy to let them have debugging info Jul 28 05:42:05 i turned off the ps output though Jul 28 05:43:33 Trying to make an OS out of Chrome is like saying you're going to turn a Pontiac Aztek into a stretch limousine. I suppose it could be done, but why? Jul 28 05:44:10 epv: yeah, I did the MITM and posted the trace :) Jul 28 05:44:23 oh yay Jul 28 05:44:36 that's for the update process Jul 28 05:44:49 i was planning on doing one for the android phone but it got bought on craigslist sooner than i expected so i never did it Jul 28 05:44:51 I haven't done any of the other stuff yet but I plan on making a tool to make it easy for everyone to do Jul 28 05:44:59 that's a very good thing to do Jul 28 05:45:28 yeah we don't want vendor X using SSL to keep secrets from us about what our own phone is phoning home on :) Jul 28 05:45:47 especially if it gets any attention/press... it might encourage them to think twice before doing anything obnoxious if they know that people are paying attention Jul 28 05:46:05 the google location stuff is also creepy Jul 28 05:46:20 technobabble, :) Jul 28 05:46:28 fakesteve pwns Jul 28 05:46:42 that part was pretty good Jul 28 05:46:51 as was the ending half of part 5 Jul 28 05:46:56 basically what's needed is a tiny transparent proxy that terminates SSL (stunnel does that) but that also dynamically signs new server certs for the names it's terminating for based on a given SSL CA key Jul 28 05:47:14 shouldn't be hard to add to stunnel with openssl lib Jul 28 05:47:40 then you could even install it on a pre with iptables Jul 28 05:47:49 if you want to be totally mobile Jul 28 05:48:28 I was using a seperate workstation Jul 28 05:50:42 ooh now I have the idea of making it controllable via a switch flipped in a mojo app that calls a local service to turn on the daemon and flip iptables. instant monitor mode Jul 28 05:51:39 haha yay. and/or privacy mode, for people who really don't want to be snooped on Jul 28 05:52:02 you could sanitize what it passes, or just stop various services from connecting Jul 28 05:52:08 very true Jul 28 05:52:32 org.webosinternals.tinfoilhat Jul 28 05:52:34 ftw Jul 28 05:52:35 :) Jul 28 05:52:44 hahaa yes Jul 28 05:52:50 rotfl Jul 28 05:53:36 there's no need for palm to store all my contact info, either, for that matter Jul 28 05:53:58 i absolutely refused to let my contact db ever touch google Jul 28 05:54:02 when i had the g1 phone Jul 28 05:54:23 and it was very, very hard to use the phone without handing all that info over Jul 28 05:55:05 basically required writing it all to a sqlite db on the phone directly Jul 28 05:55:14 would be cool to do a palm profile workalike on a server the user owns Jul 28 05:55:21 yes, yes it would. Jul 28 05:55:46 i don't like stuff that depends on a vendor's services like that. Jul 28 05:56:29 I wonder what a pre does without firstuse at all Jul 28 05:56:32 does it still work? Jul 28 05:56:58 there was some discussion about bypassing firstuse.. but i forgot where Jul 28 05:57:14 well they were generally bypassing the phone activation that happens inside firtstuse Jul 28 05:57:19 ohh ok Jul 28 05:57:22 s/irts/irst/ Jul 28 05:57:23 destinal meant: well they were generally bypassing the phone activation that happens inside firsttuse Jul 28 05:57:29 * destinal fails Jul 28 05:57:30 haha Jul 28 05:57:56 infobot: botsnack Jul 28 05:57:56 destinal: thanks Jul 28 05:58:13 hello Jul 28 05:58:44 lmorchard: ping Jul 28 05:58:54 rwhitby_: Allo there Jul 28 05:59:53 why is the terminal app installed with ipkg instead of ipkg-opt Jul 28 05:59:54 ? Jul 28 05:59:58 lmorchard: what's your gitorious username, I'll give you commit rights. Jul 28 06:00:11 rwhitby_: lmorchard Jul 28 06:00:18 Tilton53: cause it's not part of optware, and doesn't live under /opt Jul 28 06:00:25 Only have the one contribution so far, but hopefully will have more eventually :) Jul 28 06:00:31 ah Jul 28 06:00:51 night everyone Jul 28 06:01:09 lmorchard: nice find on the powerd silencing Jul 28 06:01:18 I can't claim it myself, just the patch Jul 28 06:01:31 which watch? Jul 28 06:01:32 epv mentioned it earlier Jul 28 06:01:33 patch Jul 28 06:01:34 ohh Jul 28 06:01:35 that one Jul 28 06:01:49 you put up a patch? yay Jul 28 06:01:52 it annoyed me so much that I made a patch from it :) Jul 28 06:01:53 lmorchard: gitorious is telling me "No user was found with that username", but that doesn't make sense cause I saw your merge request Jul 28 06:01:55 haha Jul 28 06:02:06 Hmm that's odd... my email is l.m.orchard@pobox.com, if that counts Jul 28 06:02:26 I was thinking we should probably allow change mesg mode in the terminal, does that stop wall? Jul 28 06:02:27 yeah, it shows me that too Jul 28 06:02:33 I also seem to have a page at http://gitorious.org/~lmorchard Jul 28 06:02:36 weird Jul 28 06:02:53 mesg just chmods the pty, term shouldn't have to care Jul 28 06:03:00 epv: right Jul 28 06:03:04 epv: I mean does that stop wall? Jul 28 06:03:05 lmorchard: ok, it went through that time. Jul 28 06:03:14 not if the wall is from root, i think Jul 28 06:03:15 lmorchard: please feel free to commit the patch Jul 28 06:03:29 lmorchard: and no need to request in the future, just do it ;-) Jul 28 06:03:42 Cool, I'll try not to muck anything up Jul 28 06:04:01 no, mesg n doesn't stop walls from root Jul 28 06:04:03 just tested Jul 28 06:04:08 lmorchard: I'm positive you won't, and if you do it's an SCM designed to revert those things :-) Jul 28 06:04:17 oh, there's even an mesg binary on webos, wow Jul 28 06:04:24 yup :) Jul 28 06:04:24 heh heh, true Jul 28 06:04:32 i love that. also i love that it has screen out of the box Jul 28 06:04:41 epv: really? Jul 28 06:04:43 wow Jul 28 06:04:44 yep Jul 28 06:04:56 it's kinda sad that my PHONE has a better userland than solari Jul 28 06:04:57 says something about palm IMO Jul 28 06:04:58 s Jul 28 06:05:22 they really did do some stuff right Jul 28 06:05:28 destinal: it says that they couldn't be bothered changing the openembedded default rootfs config ;-) Jul 28 06:05:42 haha yeah i guess that Jul 28 06:05:43 destinal: heh, is that base OE? I didn't know Jul 28 06:05:49 err rwhitby_ Jul 28 06:05:53 well, they did add some good stuff too. Jul 28 06:06:34 ooh, /usr/palm/patches -- have we ever seen that get used? Jul 28 06:06:50 not that I know of Jul 28 06:07:03 could it be where it store the updates? Jul 28 06:07:11 at least on a temp basis Jul 28 06:07:18 no, we know where that is Jul 28 06:07:21 how could I not have seen /usr/palm/command-resource-handlers.json ? Jul 28 06:08:36 ooh Jul 28 06:09:01 this could be fun Jul 28 06:09:24 destinal: they used that for the ipkg browser download patch didn't they? Jul 28 06:10:14 Anyone work with the /etc/network/interfaces file? I'm trying to build a bridge from eth0 to ppp0 (also, why in the world is the wifi interface eth0? heh) Jul 28 06:11:05 rwhitby: maybe, they reference it on the wiki as someplace to investigate Jul 28 06:11:06 lipgiga: make your interface stanza start with "iface br0 ..." Jul 28 06:11:15 and then under it do "bridge-ports eth0 ppp0" Jul 28 06:11:20 though i dunno if that's really a good idea Jul 28 06:11:23 way ahead of you epv, thank you :) borked the boot Jul 28 06:11:29 hahah Jul 28 06:11:41 gui wouldn't boot at all, could just get in nova to fix the file, so all is good :) Jul 28 06:11:43 epv: can you bridge eth to ppp? I tried once and at least in older kernels it doesn't work Jul 28 06:11:48 no Jul 28 06:11:58 eth0 is wifi in this case. Jul 28 06:12:00 ppp is point-to-point, it doesn't make sense to bridge that to a broadcast medium Jul 28 06:12:10 which is why i suggested it might not be what he actually wanted to do Jul 28 06:12:27 ... ppp0 is EVDO. Jul 28 06:12:34 lipgiga: wifi is the same as ethernet in these terms Jul 28 06:12:54 yeah, no difference, it is still a point-to-point interface Jul 28 06:12:58 Hm.. Jul 28 06:13:08 wifi uses ethernet frames basically Jul 28 06:13:08 So you're saying the KERNEL doesn't support bridging in that direction? Jul 28 06:13:19 i'm saying it's not possible, really Jul 28 06:13:37 Or, not possible to do using the interfaces file? Jul 28 06:13:43 It's definately possible ;) Jul 28 06:13:46 it doesn't make sense.. a p-to-p interface won't know what to do with an ethernet frame Jul 28 06:14:08 try it by hand with brctl, if you want Jul 28 06:14:11 you probably want to route, instead Jul 28 06:14:13 brctl addif br0 ppp0 Jul 28 06:14:19 yes, packet forward, nat, etc... Jul 28 06:14:41 or else just redirect the serial device over the network with something like nc or ser2net Jul 28 06:15:11 * lipgiga sighs Jul 28 06:15:12 you could probably do some ebtables hack Jul 28 06:15:28 if you could build ebtables for the pre kernel, which you probably could Jul 28 06:15:44 Just when I thought I was getting fancy with the iface br0 bridge-ports bit i came up with all on my own, I come in here and get my ego handed to me. Jul 28 06:15:51 aw! Jul 28 06:16:04 :) Jul 28 06:16:06 if the goal's just to tether, there's many other ways to do it Jul 28 06:16:15 or are you trying to do something fancy and interesting? :) Jul 28 06:16:19 no :( Jul 28 06:16:22 aw Jul 28 06:16:23 Just provide an ap really. Jul 28 06:17:03 there's a huge thread on precentral.net, which i guess is aas far as we're supposed to discuss it in here Jul 28 06:17:10 OH Jul 28 06:17:19 there's an app already out that does it as well Jul 28 06:17:21 i knew it must be somewhere... i suppose that was the 1 place i didn't look, eh Jul 28 06:17:25 heh Jul 28 06:17:33 Honestly i'm more interested than the _how_ than actually using it lol Jul 28 06:17:37 guess i'll check out the app ;) Jul 28 06:17:42 the app will install a service that can execute arbitrary shell commands as root, just so you know Jul 28 06:17:50 that's really bad. Jul 28 06:17:52 i find that objectionable, but some people don't care Jul 28 06:18:03 * lipgiga gasps Jul 28 06:18:08 * lipgiga is full of objection Jul 28 06:18:09 epv: discussion of linux networking is fine in here Jul 28 06:18:18 but unpack the app, it just runs a provided shell script which will show you everything you're looking for Jul 28 06:18:25 cool Jul 28 06:18:30 thank you muchly Jul 28 06:18:33 sure Jul 28 06:18:41 oh, while i have you here Jul 28 06:18:55 epv: yeah, we really need to pull the org.webosinternals.services code before someone else goes and uses it for something else too Jul 28 06:19:06 yeah. :( Jul 28 06:19:17 * rwhitby goes and does that now Jul 28 06:19:19 any idea how the GUI works? It seems like it's definately composited, but I can't imagine the hardware supporting DRI. Jul 28 06:19:33 why not? Jul 28 06:19:39 it seems to be built on directfb, no? Jul 28 06:19:55 i don't know much about it Jul 28 06:20:04 hm. Jul 28 06:20:07 a valid point Jul 28 06:20:23 i believe there's a directfb X server, that'd be kind of amusing to get working :) Jul 28 06:20:33 rootless, even Jul 28 06:20:36 which would make it hardware acceleration Jul 28 06:20:51 there is someone working on it, he said the biggest problem was getting it to interface with the framebuffer Jul 28 06:20:54 correctly, atleast Jul 28 06:21:09 aw Jul 28 06:22:54 i mean like you said, there is support for X, it's just not straight forward because of the built in GUI Jul 28 06:23:22 right, i didn't know if directfb allows nonexclusive access to the fb or whatever Jul 28 06:24:24 the answer to that is pretty much no :-/ Jul 28 06:24:34 bummer :( Jul 28 06:24:37 all we need is some magic! Jul 28 06:25:37 Play around with Apache yet? Totally need to get that working. Jul 28 06:26:07 haha. why not use a small, light httpd like lighttpd or something? Jul 28 06:26:28 i think optware has more than one Jul 28 06:26:56 ooo, good idea :) Jul 28 06:26:59 it has lighttpd, minihttpd, thttpd, and apache Jul 28 06:27:25 i just haven't dived into it yet because i'm sure it involves more than just an install, the configure will be strange for me. i'm not normally a Debian person... i'd like to think i'm learning fast tho :) Jul 28 06:27:33 and... iptables Jul 28 06:27:36 * lipgiga shudders Jul 28 06:27:53 the ipkg packages are prebuilt, you don't have to compile them if you don't want to Jul 28 06:28:02 and if you do, there are instructions at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Optware_Cross_Compilation Jul 28 06:29:16 not worried about compiling, just configuration after install Jul 28 06:29:35 although SFTP works marvelously with out touching a thing Jul 28 06:30:57 lipgiga: optware is reasonably preconfigured to do something sensible out of the box Jul 28 06:31:09 never played with it at all before Jul 28 06:31:26 actually i feel kinda dumb, i assumed it was a package manager specifically for arm-based hardware? Jul 28 06:31:30 you should be pleasantly be surprised Jul 28 06:32:10 it doesn't have to be arm-based. it's like any other package manager, just small Jul 28 06:32:31 lipgiga: optware supports about 20 different platforms. a lot of them are arm-based, but many are not. Jul 28 06:32:41 it did originate with the Linksys NSLU2. Jul 28 06:32:53 i see. i was always a fan of the apt system. and familiar with emerge. guess it's time to branch out Jul 28 06:33:00 that's a cool tidbit lol. Linksys eh. Jul 28 06:33:10 it's not very different from apt/dpkg really Jul 28 06:33:20 yeah, it seemed very similar Jul 28 06:35:20 how does .ipk work exactly? Jul 28 06:36:01 it's a dpkg format file, just like .debs Jul 28 06:36:29 basically an archive with the right metadata in the right files, etc Jul 28 06:37:05 dpkg-deb on debian will read the .ipk files ok Jul 28 06:37:56 oh yay I got tethering to work on the palm.... i love this community that's grown around the pre Jul 28 06:38:00 thanks to everyone :D Jul 28 06:39:47 ^_^ Jul 28 06:42:09 hak: what tutorial did you use? Jul 28 06:42:14 I've been lazy Jul 28 06:42:20 haven't bothered with tethering yet Jul 28 06:42:45 hmm Jul 28 06:42:47 one sec Jul 28 06:43:06 http://mytether.net/ Jul 28 06:43:22 haha of course that exists Jul 28 06:43:37 that is the author's site Jul 28 06:43:42 I originally followed this one Jul 28 06:43:46 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/191213-my-tether-tether-over-wifi-usb-bt-v1-5-0-7-27-a.html Jul 28 06:43:57 but hte same instructions are on both it seems Jul 28 06:44:12 basically you just wget the latest version from root, and then it does its magic Jul 28 06:44:28 to tether over bluetooth, pair your pre with your computer through bt like normal Jul 28 06:44:32 then just run USB tether Jul 28 06:44:37 and it will work Jul 28 06:44:47 wow, awesome Jul 28 06:44:48 note you have to reboot when you enable USB tethering Jul 28 06:45:10 how is it on battery life? Jul 28 06:45:14 no idea Jul 28 06:45:17 i just got it installed Jul 28 06:45:46 It kills the battery Jul 28 06:45:55 But it is awesome while it lasts Jul 28 06:45:59 works GREAT Jul 28 06:46:04 Eguy Jul 28 06:46:11 Tlz Jul 28 06:46:20 i love you Jul 28 06:46:21 hehe Jul 28 06:46:28 I will just have it plugged into the cig lighter Jul 28 06:46:33 i love you too /lie Jul 28 06:47:00 i love all you guys Jul 28 06:47:05 Who wrote this thing? Jul 28 06:47:30 raja [dot] kapur [at] gmail.com Jul 28 06:47:41 i thought maybe he was in here :D Jul 28 06:47:41 so i guess a chap called raja kapur Jul 28 06:48:01 He is on precentrAL Jul 28 06:48:05 but it is weird Jul 28 06:48:21 1.5 on PC but 1.2.4 on his website looks more up to date.. Jul 28 06:49:49 Seems 1.5 is older than 1.2.4 LOL Jul 28 06:50:59 hmmm Jul 28 06:51:03 heh Jul 28 06:51:04 this google voice sounds interesting Jul 28 06:51:09 yeah Jul 28 06:51:12 what im reading now Jul 28 06:51:19 It is bomb Jul 28 06:51:22 im lost Jul 28 06:51:24 am i missing something with this software? do i have to turn the wifi on on my phone manually first? Jul 28 06:51:27 im kinda lost too Jul 28 06:51:28 i suppose i should install 1.2.4 Jul 28 06:51:32 but thats cause im tired as balls Jul 28 06:51:37 i have 1.5 from precentral Jul 28 06:51:43 me too x.x Jul 28 06:51:48 nearly midnight :( Jul 28 06:51:52 I have 1.5 as well Jul 28 06:51:57 hak where ya at? Jul 28 06:52:04 california Jul 28 06:52:06 Yes you need wifi on first Jul 28 06:52:09 where at? Jul 28 06:52:13 bay area Jul 28 06:52:32 aw Jul 28 06:52:35 I'm down south Jul 28 06:52:40 la metro? Jul 28 06:52:43 Si Jul 28 06:52:46 I don't think wifi works well with wifi turned off Jul 28 06:52:48 (local language) Jul 28 06:52:49 hak: we'd prefer that support for apps happens in the forum that the author has set up for the app, rather than us supporting all the thousands of apps in this channel Jul 28 06:52:49 but ymmv Jul 28 06:53:02 actually, it seems it has to be off in the phone. Jul 28 06:53:15 the script the software runs i guess activates the card from the backend Jul 28 06:53:37 it turns it into an infrastructure ap? Jul 28 06:53:40 that is sweet Jul 28 06:53:47 the hw does adhoc only, i think Jul 28 06:53:58 Why the hell would people use the Pre to download torrents...presumably illegal ones Jul 28 06:54:04 depends on firmware Jul 28 06:54:09 it said wifi hotspot Jul 28 06:54:17 I was assuming more than one connection Jul 28 06:54:18 heh Jul 28 06:54:31 you can have multiple peers in adhoc mode, i think Jul 28 06:54:40 it'd be interesting if someone had made the device work in AP mode though Jul 28 06:54:45 eguy, i was thinking the same thing Jul 28 06:54:48 My Tether turns the pre into a wifi hotspot but like rwhitby said, carry the disscussion onto the forum or the watercooler channel if you wish Jul 28 06:55:28 oh, discussion of ap mode for the wifi is fine here Jul 28 06:55:32 we're just talking about the hardware Jul 28 06:55:41 jwm: yeah, no problem with that. Jul 28 06:55:52 I don't even plan using tethering, I already have sprint wireless heh Jul 28 06:56:15 So expensive :( Jul 28 06:56:24 agreed Jul 28 06:56:26 not for me! Jul 28 06:56:29 it was my ISP for 3 years xD Jul 28 06:56:30 I have a Sprint Rev A card built into my computer Jul 28 06:56:31 $20 for my aircard :( Jul 28 06:56:35 60 a month is like eating out once Jul 28 06:56:40 59.99/mo when i had it Jul 28 06:56:45 haha the author of that app removed all whitespace/formatting from the javascript Jul 28 06:56:54 I could get EPRP for it Jul 28 06:57:00 but I really don't need it Jul 28 06:57:13 especially since I had tether on my Centro and now Pre Jul 28 06:57:18 ping 192.168.1.120 Jul 28 06:57:26 and $20 for my 3000 free and clear plan, with unlimited txt, nights @ 7, and unlimited data :( Jul 28 06:57:27 eprp? Jul 28 06:57:28 oops, all these windows all look the same Jul 28 06:57:35 it might be bed time Jul 28 06:57:42 Everything Plus Referral Jul 28 06:57:43 I also have verizon wireless on my work laptop Jul 28 06:57:44 off topic: where is a nice place to dl music? Jul 28 06:57:46 it is sooo slowww Jul 28 06:57:48 SERO v2.0 Jul 28 06:57:59 epv: yeah, my tether is a bit of the opposite from the webos-internals information that we share in this channel - he seems to be wanting to hide all his information Jul 28 06:58:02 VZW is soooo slow Jul 28 06:58:14 how is that? Jul 28 06:58:26 ok, im outtie Jul 28 06:58:33 goodnight gents! Jul 28 06:58:39 antianalog: we don't discuss that in here, ask around in #webos-watercooler Jul 28 06:58:45 cya tlz Jul 28 06:58:45 * lipgiga wonders if the wifi hardware supports monitor mode Jul 28 06:59:03 lipgiga: I've wondered the same Jul 28 06:59:10 it would be a cool phreaking phone Jul 28 06:59:11 the pre Jul 28 06:59:12 and frame injectoin Jul 28 06:59:16 or hacking rather heh Jul 28 06:59:17 Yeah wifi scanner? Jul 28 06:59:21 upsidedownterphone Jul 28 06:59:27 i could run the command to try putting it in monitor mode.. it would take... 1 second. i'm wayyyy to tired tho Jul 28 06:59:43 the Pre needs a 28926982mah battery Jul 28 06:59:48 hah Jul 28 06:59:50 I believe the hardware does not support master or monitor modes Jul 28 06:59:52 even if it doesn't support monitor mode and injection, if we can get USB OTG (which this device supposedly has) working, we can just hook up a wifi usb dongle Jul 28 06:59:58 it needs an 18 amp cold start battery Jul 28 07:00:01 heh Jul 28 07:00:10 very good point dest Jul 28 07:00:24 destinal: yeah, like a pentesting company sells for the openmoko phone Jul 28 07:00:24 yeah ti omap should have usb host support, but you'd have to build a dongle to supply 5v power Jul 28 07:00:27 the my tether app works well Jul 28 07:00:38 http://img.hisupplier.com/var/userImages/old/hangtian/hangtian$122216169.jpg Jul 28 07:00:44 that is my next pre battery Jul 28 07:00:47 rwhitby: do they? that sounds cool, do you have a reference? Jul 28 07:01:02 lol jwm Jul 28 07:01:08 hahaha Jul 28 07:01:09 antianalog: have they closed the security hole that allows any rogue app to run anything on your Pre as root yet? Jul 28 07:01:20 hahaa Jul 28 07:01:34 jwm: Do you have a sholder bag for that? Jul 28 07:01:35 rwhitby, you are asking the wrong person Jul 28 07:01:42 as far as tethering, the app works Jul 28 07:01:50 as far as security, i have no clue Jul 28 07:01:51 considering the install instructions are "run this shell script as root" it seems unlikely Jul 28 07:01:55 I just haven't found the right cables for it yet Jul 28 07:01:58 i wonder how many people this phone will get into learning linux Jul 28 07:02:13 lipgiga, i have already switched from vista to ubuntu Jul 28 07:02:13 epv: it's more the wide open service that was the concern Jul 28 07:02:15 rwhit, he _claims_ the whole is closed in 1.5 Jul 28 07:02:23 the libertas chip is actually similar to the one in olpc Jul 28 07:02:32 it's the firmware that's limited Jul 28 07:02:41 destinal: yeah, i just meant the general attitude displayed toward security Jul 28 07:02:46 *shudder* olpc Jul 28 07:02:54 I'm worried when they "fix" the root security issue they'll "fix" all of us Jul 28 07:02:57 heh Jul 28 07:02:58 lipgiga: is the source available for you to check he has closed it? Jul 28 07:03:14 that's a good point. Jul 28 07:03:14 heh Jul 28 07:03:14 I could imagine every pre ending up with a rootkit Jul 28 07:03:22 that would be pretty awesome Jul 28 07:03:26 GIANT PRE BOTNET Jul 28 07:03:30 yep Jul 28 07:03:33 all with dynamic ips Jul 28 07:03:36 oh my god Jul 28 07:03:36 rwhitby: is it neopwn you were referring to? Jul 28 07:03:42 attacking windows installs to put more bots on them heh Jul 28 07:03:43 i'm going to go code that, brb Jul 28 07:03:44 rwhitby, should i be worried about using the tether app? Jul 28 07:03:46 we'll all just complain our battery life gets even worse Jul 28 07:03:53 lol Jul 28 07:03:58 hehe, yeah, the pre botnet would be pretty weak Jul 28 07:03:58 we would anyway hak Jul 28 07:04:00 pre botnet would run out of steam very fast Jul 28 07:04:15 lol but it would be a great clicknet while it lasted Jul 28 07:04:18 destinal: yep that's the one Jul 28 07:04:22 clicknet? Jul 28 07:04:28 antianalog: dunno - can I get the source code? Jul 28 07:04:28 i wonder how long we can tether before sprint starts charging us all Jul 28 07:04:42 they can't legally charge us until we get over 5GB Jul 28 07:04:42 *installs javad* Jul 28 07:04:51 hehe Jul 28 07:04:52 tmzt, advertiser/publisher program fraud, i wasn't actually condoning it, just a jest. Jul 28 07:04:57 yeah and if you go over 5GB you need to stop streaming porn so much :P Jul 28 07:04:59 ah Jul 28 07:05:00 ok Jul 28 07:05:01 though I've never had them charge me, and i routinely go over 30gb or so Jul 28 07:05:15 rwhitby, how do i find you the source code? Jul 28 07:06:10 antianalog: ask the author to publish the source for the latest version, so anyone can review it. I'm not interested myself, since I'm in a country that has unlocked GSM as the norm. Jul 28 07:06:24 ok Jul 28 07:06:29 rwhitby, i love your country Jul 28 07:06:42 me too Jul 28 07:06:47 They drink alot Jul 28 07:06:48 whereever it is Jul 28 07:06:56 i hate our, our telecoms suck Jul 28 07:07:03 shouldn't ipk's be EASILY unpacked? Jul 28 07:07:04 our internet sucks too Jul 28 07:07:05 or no? Jul 28 07:07:08 Yes they do Jul 28 07:07:22 dpkg-deb -x filename.ipk directory/ Jul 28 07:07:25 My upstream sucks...downstream is fantastic Jul 28 07:07:46 but the class in question is a java class file Jul 28 07:07:50 lipgiga: they are. use 'ipkg -o /var install' Jul 28 07:08:06 i assumed it was one of the 2 commands lol Jul 28 07:08:25 lipgiga: or get our preware.org git repo and use the ipkg-unbuild python script Jul 28 07:08:28 fwiw the app includes some shell scripts with the TetherService.class file in the jar Jul 28 07:08:29 also, for what it's worth, the script that downloads and launches the .ipk install is written nicely :) Jul 28 07:08:46 wait, the pre supports Java? Jul 28 07:08:51 so it probably runs one or the other rather than arbitrarily executing commands handed to it Jul 28 07:09:00 which is of course mostly meaningless Jul 28 07:09:31 luna runs on java Jul 28 07:09:33 heh Jul 28 07:09:46 that's why it is so slow Jul 28 07:10:01 there are so many apps Jul 28 07:10:04 i see Jul 28 07:10:28 Anyone know anything about a fix for the imagemaping problem the browser is having? or an alternative browser posibility? Jul 28 07:10:37 luna is part java Jul 28 07:10:41 but mostly jni I think Jul 28 07:10:48 and the webkit plugin is c Jul 28 07:11:52 damn preGame, filecoaster is REALLY awesome now Jul 28 07:12:13 what is filecoaster? Jul 28 07:12:59 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194825-filecoaster-first-pre-gui-downloader-installer.html Jul 28 07:13:43 ooo Jul 28 07:13:47 a rollercoaster for files! Jul 28 07:13:48 :D Jul 28 07:13:57 Eguy: why more awesome? Jul 28 07:14:13 all the new changes Jul 28 07:14:19 I have been using 1.0.0 Jul 28 07:14:39 Anyone's signal gone WAY bad since 1.1? Mine has been really messed up Jul 28 07:14:50 yes Jul 28 07:15:05 I have an Airave and the Pre just switched to roaming Jul 28 07:15:26 probably just a coincidence Jul 28 07:15:43 you probably need to exchange your pre Jul 28 07:15:49 has it been more than 3 weeks? Jul 28 07:15:51 heh Jul 28 07:16:17 Got mine the 5th ;) Jul 28 07:16:26 Don't need to exchange it Jul 28 07:16:39 nothing wrong with it other than bad build quality ;) Jul 28 07:16:57 how can i make "|" character in my pre terminal? Jul 28 07:17:15 orange + . Jul 28 07:17:35 thanks Jul 28 07:17:41 installing my tether eh? Jul 28 07:18:07 how did you know Jul 28 07:18:08 im gunna install my tether tomorrow Jul 28 07:18:33 I can see your computer screen Jul 28 07:18:39 Muahahaha Jul 28 07:18:55 Eguy, is the previous version of my tether with the webosinternals.services safer, atleast for now, than the new one? Jul 28 07:19:22 I don't know Jul 28 07:19:28 I don't use it Jul 28 07:19:39 Haven't had the need to at least Jul 28 07:19:55 it's pretty cool for my nintendo ds Jul 28 07:20:21 hahahahahah you have a DS Jul 28 07:21:28 heh Jul 28 07:22:08 what's so funny about that? Jul 28 07:22:18 thats precentral forum talk. Jul 28 07:22:23 I better not comment Jul 28 07:25:15 antianalog: the version with webosinternals.services (which was a proof of concept of how to open up a security hole) is not safe Jul 28 07:25:37 ok thanks rwhitby Jul 28 07:26:40 jomaster * r10506 optware/trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): vt4-kernel-modules: Added vt4 kernel modules Jul 28 07:27:26 wdup. Jul 28 07:37:26 night folks. Jul 28 07:45:15 fyi terminal 0.1.5 is released on preware feed Jul 28 07:45:36 minor fixes, keyboard and some metakey display status Jul 28 07:47:00 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 28 07:47:05 this one ^?? Jul 28 07:47:08 yeah Jul 28 07:47:16 I should update the wiki with new number I guess Jul 28 07:47:34 will the /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var update update it? Jul 28 07:47:51 update then upgrade then reboot yeah Jul 28 07:48:08 ejeet Jul 28 07:49:20 still green, haven't gotten to the color selection mojo yet, alas Jul 28 07:50:00 that's probably soon Jul 28 07:50:28 oh it's so cute Jul 28 07:50:41 i thought it was green to match my terminal on my desktop xD Jul 28 07:50:59 heh Jul 28 07:51:09 I like the green Jul 28 07:51:35 green doesn't bother me either Jul 28 07:51:41 i'm just glad it's not on a white background Jul 28 07:51:48 :) Jul 28 07:51:49 yeah, it's cool, but a few actually asked for it to be white again. I figure we'll let you select for yourself :) Jul 28 07:51:52 destinal: color escape sequences are handled? Jul 28 07:51:55 * rwhitby reminds people that all Terminal update announcements go to our webos-internals-announce mailing list .. Jul 28 07:51:56 tmzt: yes Jul 28 07:52:01 but it returns to the font color on reset? Jul 28 07:52:06 correct Jul 28 07:52:14 core application, Jul 28 07:52:16 where are the mailing lists? Jul 28 07:52:22 so if you haven't signed up - go to http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals-announce Jul 28 07:52:30 where are downloaded apps saved to the phone? Jul 28 07:52:57 ant, on install? Jul 28 07:53:36 var usually Jul 28 07:53:44 var/usr/palm/applications Jul 28 07:54:04 rwhitby: you should check out Colloquy ;) Jul 28 07:54:17 thanks Jul 28 07:54:29 Eguy: I did, but liked LimeChat better. Jul 28 07:54:48 nice, this also fixes the Y U problem in the emulator Jul 28 07:54:56 Really? Jul 28 07:55:09 limechat looks much nicer than irssi Jul 28 07:55:11 :( Jul 28 07:55:11 I think it is a little plain for me :D Jul 28 07:55:14 mrvc figured out a better way to handle key events (the native way, we just needed focus) and that doesn't have the bug Jul 28 07:55:19 Eguy: I like plain. Jul 28 07:55:29 the bug is in the emulator itself on raw key codes Jul 28 07:55:32 bling gets in the way of content Jul 28 07:55:44 haha Jul 28 07:55:57 I would think you would like Andriod better than webOS than ;) Jul 28 07:56:08 webOS has little bling Jul 28 07:56:13 Y U> Jul 28 07:56:16 Lots I think Jul 28 07:56:16 I think android is actually flashier Jul 28 07:56:27 I think webOS is flashier :P Jul 28 07:56:47 Especially with the green dialer...that's risky Jul 28 07:56:48 winmo has the least bling Jul 28 07:56:54 I like things that are not themeable :-) Jul 28 07:57:00 no way hak Jul 28 07:57:07 POS was soooo stale Jul 28 07:57:14 and ugly Jul 28 07:57:18 my point exactly Jul 28 07:57:32 same general uisince 2003 Jul 28 07:57:44 they added some gradients in 6.0 Jul 28 08:00:12 ok, going to bed Jul 28 08:00:25 good night, all Jul 28 08:02:41 test Jul 28 08:13:28 yea Jul 28 08:17:25 ew green dialer Jul 28 08:17:27 i got rid of it Jul 28 08:17:35 ? Jul 28 08:17:45 I'm too lazy to get rid of it Jul 28 08:18:26 you could dl the desaturated images off the wiki and just cp them over :P Jul 28 08:28:20 heh Jul 28 08:28:50 u use the greyblack , indigo theme? Jul 28 08:29:06 Kinda freaky Jul 28 08:29:18 You technically can color them whatever you want Jul 28 08:29:42 need moar themes Jul 28 08:29:52 Photoshop Jul 28 08:30:05 gimp Jul 28 08:30:11 Ewww Jul 28 08:30:56 http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/27/verizon-reiterates-itll-have-the-pre-early-next-year/ booo Jul 28 08:32:27 that's a good thing Jul 28 08:51:48 can anyone help me with usbnet? Jul 28 08:55:06 destinal-zzz: how did you create font.xpm originally? not by hand, hopefully? Jul 28 08:57:46 i see ppmtoxpm and of course *toppm but not pcftoppm Jul 28 10:09:42 finally Jul 28 10:46:12 anyone know how to get battery life info from the commandline? Jul 28 11:10:31 destinal-zzz: looks like i've successfully hacked termplugin and terminal to use a 4x6 (hand-converted to xpm) instead of 8x8. much more pleasing to my eyes :) 80x66 in portrait mode or 120x44 in landscape Jul 28 11:11:56 still getting a bit of emulation weirdness with linux TERM, mostly, but also with vt100 at least when in screen :/ Jul 28 11:28:47 tris: did u post the xpm? Jul 28 11:29:47 ... that should have been the only mod Jul 28 11:32:19 http://tris.net/software/4x6term/ has the patches Jul 28 11:32:33 aside from the xpm it's just a matter of adjusting a few height/width #s Jul 28 11:33:03 http://flickr.com/tristanhorn/sets/72157621747382411 Jul 28 11:33:36 (that's with the brightness all the way down... still bleeeds in the photo!) Jul 28 11:34:18 oh i dont have colors in irssi Jul 28 11:34:18 :) Jul 28 11:34:21 :( Jul 28 11:36:00 my cross-compiled termplugin.so turned out to be about 1/4 the size of the one distributed in the ipkg Jul 28 11:36:06 strange Jul 28 11:37:08 those new commercials from palm are creppy Jul 28 11:37:08 :S Jul 28 11:43:15 tris: it works? Jul 28 11:43:39 yep, just as well as the other font Jul 28 11:43:52 maybe better/faster, even, since the chars are smaller... dunno Jul 28 11:44:40 tris: if anything slower, as more chars to draw... Jul 28 11:44:44 if you end up replacing termplugin.so, you need to reboot the pre to get it to take effect apparently Jul 28 11:45:16 zuchmir: that's true, though at least the xpm is smaller Jul 28 11:46:08 will have to try this font..., maybe a config to choose which font Jul 28 11:46:19 it feels faster to me probably just 'cuz there's less scrolling/redrawing for the things i'm doing Jul 28 11:47:37 5x7 would be a nice font to have too Jul 28 11:47:56 from linux? Jul 28 11:48:05 yeah Jul 28 11:48:44 i used fontforge to view 4x6.pcf while making the xpm Jul 28 11:49:12 you didn't use pcf to whatever? Jul 28 11:49:36 xfonts-utils - X Window System font utility programs Jul 28 11:49:51 pcf2bdf - convert X11 font from PCF to BDF format Jul 28 11:50:06 not sure what xfonts-utils contains, but yeah i couldn't find one Jul 28 11:50:09 pcf2bdf - convert X11 font from PCF to BDF format Jul 28 11:50:21 i'm sure it'd be easy to write a converter Jul 28 11:50:27 bdf2psf - font converter to generate console fonts from BDF source fonts Jul 28 11:50:50 don't have them installed, those are in ubuntu repos Jul 28 11:50:53 why not use the pre default font? Jul 28 11:51:13 en0x: is there a monospaced one? Jul 28 11:51:34 dont think so Jul 28 11:51:47 i like dejavu in mine terminal on osx Jul 28 11:52:19 destinal wants to get libfreetype going for all that stuff Jul 28 11:53:00 what would be really nice is a subpixel-rendered tiny monospaced font :) Jul 28 11:54:27 bgr? Jul 28 11:54:32 that would be interesting Jul 28 11:54:44 so use libfreetype/fontconfig Jul 28 11:54:52 maybe Jul 28 11:55:00 or a custom bitmap font, which is a lot of work Jul 28 12:11:13 ok updated terminal to 0.1.5 rebooting now Jul 28 12:12:25 i wonder if instead of rebooting we could use ldconfig Jul 28 12:12:32 to rload the .so module or something Jul 28 12:12:47 in linux rebooting for loading .so is not required to idk why in pre we have to reboot Jul 28 12:16:52 lol Jul 28 12:17:05 in terminal 0.1.5 i have twice preferences in menu Jul 28 12:17:06 o_x Jul 28 12:17:25 you don't Jul 28 12:17:33 just the process using .so Jul 28 12:17:38 which is luna in this case Jul 28 12:22:12 tris: do u use a magnify glass with your 4x6 font? :-) Jul 28 12:23:19 4x6 is big enough for pre Jul 28 12:23:39 anyway to get color irssi i got to use tris .so and patches right? Jul 28 12:24:20 or maybe i wont do it this font me dont like Jul 28 12:25:47 en0x: are you already running 0.1.5? i think color was added in 0.1.4 or so Jul 28 12:26:49 if so, try /set colors on, /set term_force_colors on (though you shouldn't need that), try running outside of screen, changing term type... Jul 28 12:27:34 i'm not using irssi in screen Jul 28 12:27:46 hrm Jul 28 12:27:55 08:27 term_force_colors = OFF Jul 28 12:27:59 got tha sucka Jul 28 12:28:01 will try now Jul 28 12:29:27 hmm Jul 28 12:29:50 something aint right Jul 28 12:30:15 i c only one line Jul 28 12:30:23 when im typing hehehe Jul 28 12:31:47 //)%3/ Jul 28 12:33:02 http://twitpic.com/bx0nf Jul 28 12:33:09 tris: tmzt ^ Jul 28 12:33:43 you got it working? woot Jul 28 12:34:16 wow, arora browser is nic Jul 28 12:34:31 got wat working? i had terminal app working since day 1 Jul 28 12:34:32 ;P Jul 28 12:34:38 what do you mean by one line? Jul 28 12:34:40 I don't see it? Jul 28 12:34:58 well when i type Jul 28 12:35:14 like for example I typed 4 lines Jul 28 12:35:23 and i only see one not 4 in my term Jul 28 12:35:46 it think this is because of terminal Jul 28 12:35:51 i mean echo TERM Jul 28 12:35:56 echo $TERM Jul 28 12:40:35 nope its not the $TERM Jul 28 13:01:41 Sprint bought Virgin Mobile Jul 28 13:02:22 really Jul 28 13:02:24 interesting Jul 28 13:02:42 Good morning by the way Jul 28 13:05:06 http://bit.ly/oYrmq Jul 28 13:06:18 they say that sprint dont have money but they still buy other companies Jul 28 13:08:34 en0x: the engadget article made it sound like it was a stock deal Jul 28 13:09:06 Sprint will retire all of Virgin Mobile USA’s outstanding debt, which is $248 million net of cash and cash equivalents as of March 31, 2009, but is expected to be no more than $205 million net of cash and cash equivalents on Sept. 30, 2009. Jul 28 13:10:01 they could give me a 1 mill Jul 28 13:46:35 tris: wow, 4x6? Jul 28 14:02:24 destinal: i'm about to push an update that incorporates both fonts... Jul 28 14:02:50 and allows you to choose in the JS which one to use Jul 28 14:07:59 Zuchmir2: for what app Jul 28 14:08:00 ? Jul 28 14:17:02 atlanta_away: terminal Jul 28 14:17:18 oh ok gotcha Jul 28 14:54:49 tris: just added support for choosing font sizes (in the JS) Jul 28 15:25:24 ugh patches never work for me Jul 28 16:03:02 Hey guys. Got the go ahead from the other two preDevCamp global organizers to make forums available for preDevCamp. Just added a pDC FAQ topic. http://www.weboscast.com/forum/9-organizer-checklists/6-predevcamp-faqs Jul 28 16:03:45 cool Jul 28 16:04:02 Would really like to encourage members of this channel to participate in the local preDevCamps in your area and the preDevCamp channel on Aug 8th Jul 28 16:05:34 You guys are awesome and I think your participation will go a long way in making preDevCamp a success. Jul 28 16:06:34 Is the one in chicago going to be pretty big? Jul 28 16:06:51 where are the locations listed at? Jul 28 16:07:12 Epyon1: http://predevcamp.org/ Jul 28 16:07:15 Go to preDevCamp.org and look for your city. Jul 28 16:07:39 there is an attendees under each city. Jul 28 16:08:17 lol just noticed chicago's was on like the 13th. Jul 28 16:09:12 Hmm, no preDevCamp in ann arbor / detroit area? Jul 28 16:09:20 Check with organizer. May have been an early meetup. Jul 28 16:09:22 thers one in dc Jul 28 16:09:25 wish I had the time to organize one :/ Jul 28 16:09:42 Still time to organize one and get the word out. Jul 28 16:09:50 but every thing is going on that day for me i have like 4 differnt things already to go to Jul 28 16:10:12 if there's a #predevcamp, I'll attend virtually at least :) Jul 28 16:10:17 IRC well also provide a sort of virtual camp. Jul 28 16:11:15 * lmorchard sets his tent up early Jul 28 16:11:38 lol Jul 28 16:12:30 GregStevenson: are you runnign those? Jul 28 16:15:30 are the venues listed there as well? Jul 28 16:16:48 heh Jul 28 16:20:29 lmorchard: if you hear of one let me know, I would probably go. Jul 28 16:20:41 Templarian: Are you in the MI area? Jul 28 16:20:53 lmorchard: I work at Western Michigan University. Jul 28 16:21:32 Ah, smallish world... I'm in Livonia,MI Jul 28 16:22:15 hah, i used to live in FArmington Jul 28 16:23:04 and Canton, and Plymouth... Jul 28 16:23:52 Heh, yup, that's all a hop and a skip from me Jul 28 16:25:06 Do you guys think that the Pre is capable of having animations that are as smooth as the iPhone 3GS given the current hardware? I actually thought the Pre slide effects were pretty good until I was using my brother's iPhone 3GS last night. It's a pretty stark difference. Jul 28 16:25:30 WillJitsu: it can they just need to optimize more. Jul 28 16:25:58 Those people with the tegra chips have it easy though. lol. Jul 28 16:27:25 Templarian: does the 3GS have a tegra chip? Jul 28 16:27:41 nope, basically same processor as the pre. Jul 28 16:27:57 I'm running the forums on webOScast.com and responsible for getting content up on same. Dan is organizer running preDevCamp.org and handling the registration stuff. Jul 28 16:28:10 WillJitsu: http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/28/creative-debuts-android-powered-zii-egg-for-developers-and-oems/ this is the hardware devs dream to dev ontop of. Jul 28 16:28:30 ahh gotcha. Jul 28 16:33:49 WillJitsu: http://www.precentral.net/palm-pres-processor-fast (theres the article I was looking for) Jul 28 16:34:10 thanks Jul 28 16:34:57 Templarian: so technically the Pre should be able to capture video with the same quality as the 3GS, right? Jul 28 16:35:44 WillJitsu: I think it has an image chip that does something also... haven't really looked into it enough. Jul 28 16:38:12 Templarian: The "hardware devs dream to dev ontop of" is always the one after the one they just got. In any case 2010 looks like the year of the smartphone developer. Jul 28 16:38:32 bbl Jul 28 16:43:09 GregStevenson: I'm still waiting for the tegra based WinMo7 phones. So yea 2010 will be the year for us. Jul 28 16:44:51 I've never been a fan of Windows Mobile =/ Jul 28 16:46:21 WillJitsu: Yea, the phones use to be amazing back in their time now they look dated. But their develoment backend is still superior by far in most accounts. Jul 28 16:49:01 Templarian: is it possible to develop an app that shows a graphical representation of the info obtained from running "top" from Terminal? Jul 28 16:52:23 okay, which developer earned himself a roudn between the eyes Jul 28 16:52:28 +1 on what en0x said a while ago Jul 28 16:52:31 since this last update my battery life went from bad to worse Jul 28 16:52:44 Only one line scrolls in terminal app when running BitchX Jul 28 16:52:54 the line just above the status lines Jul 28 16:52:56 and the processor runs really hot with pandora now Jul 28 16:57:43 it's a little late/arly for an april fool's joke to see how fast mybattery can be drained Jul 28 16:57:48 anyone know what gives? Jul 28 16:58:27 Palm pre transitions are quite slow Jul 28 16:58:32 add any new email accounts? Jul 28 16:58:32 it eurkks me Jul 28 16:58:42 make sure Aim is not on all the time Jul 28 16:59:19 i added a 3 hour email check time for better battery life Jul 28 16:59:29 i thought 1 hour was too close together Jul 28 17:01:13 i have mine on idle wait Jul 28 17:01:58 To access Linux on the Palm Pre; does one have run the Palm emulator; then type novaterm? does one have to have wifi running? Jul 28 17:02:17 brb Jul 28 17:02:37 I keep getting this message Jul 28 17:02:46 macbookpro:~ user$ novaterm Jul 28 17:02:46 failed to connect to server Jul 28 17:02:55 you have it plugged in usb? Jul 28 17:03:07 novaterm connects through usb Jul 28 17:04:15 Epyon1: Yes, the Palm pre is plugged into usb. Jul 28 17:04:30 devlopers mode enabled? Jul 28 17:04:45 Epyon1: no Jul 28 17:04:58 you have to enable it Jul 28 17:06:28 hello Jul 28 17:06:41 good morning room Jul 28 17:06:50 good afternoon actually. Jul 28 17:07:07 lol was about to say its afternoon where i am Jul 28 17:07:30 Epyon whats up Jul 28 17:07:34 any way to check the power status from the command line? Jul 28 17:07:52 Zuchmir2: good morning Jul 28 17:07:58 I have a palm pre phone. I wanna make sure I'm in the right room Jul 28 17:08:05 yep ur good Jul 28 17:08:40 then.. someone can help me. I have some $$$ to donate. Jul 28 17:08:52 PM me anyone Jul 28 17:08:53 bougyman, they put the power data inside messages, so you could conceivably do grep /var/log/messages | tail -l 1 Jul 28 17:08:54 thecakeman: yes u r Jul 28 17:08:55 ? Jul 28 17:09:22 who you trying to donate to? Jul 28 17:09:28 Lol Jul 28 17:09:33 ok thanks atlanta Jul 28 17:09:35 Epyon1: thanks Jul 28 17:09:38 the atlanta pocket fund lol Jul 28 17:09:43 rujin np Jul 28 17:09:45 Zuchmir2: terminal has got some drawing problems I'm looking into, run BitchX for a great example. there are some unsupported escape codes as well as you have to rotate the screen and rotate it back to new text to show up properly Jul 28 17:10:06 s/new/get new/ Jul 28 17:10:06 destinal meant: Zuchmir2: terminal has got some drawing problems I'm looking into, run BitchX for a great example. there are some unsupported escape codes as well as you have to rotate the screen and rotate it back to get new text to show up properly Jul 28 17:10:28 thanks, psykoz Jul 28 17:10:43 anyone have the magic to output sound on this thing? Jul 28 17:10:56 i've tried from optware and a debian chroot Jul 28 17:11:07 seem to be missing some socket to pulseaudio, nothing can find it. Jul 28 17:16:29 root@castle:/var/home/root# tac /var/log/messages|ack -m1 BATTERY|awk -F, '{print $2}' 16% Jul 28 17:16:37 ^^ psykoz Jul 28 17:16:51 boughyman what does that output Jul 28 17:16:56 16% Jul 28 17:16:59 nice Jul 28 17:17:10 any way to check the power status from the command line? Jul 28 17:17:17 root@castle:/var/home/root# tac /var/log/messages|ack -m1 BATTERY|awk -F, '{print $2}' Jul 28 17:17:21 blau-mikeDG: ^^ Jul 28 17:17:21 lol Jul 28 17:17:39 ipkg-opt install ack first Jul 28 17:17:53 or use grep BATTERY|head -1 Jul 28 17:18:10 where can i get head? Jul 28 17:18:19 head is part of core Jul 28 17:18:24 actually Jul 28 17:18:53 head and less indeed Jul 28 17:19:02 grep BATTERY /var/log/messages|tail -1|awk -F, '{print $2}' Jul 28 17:19:11 that will do it without installing anything special Jul 28 17:19:35 ack should have a 'reverse match' option. Jul 28 17:19:36 what comments out on .json files? Jul 28 17:19:50 double slash doesn tit Jul 28 17:20:03 i think it just doesnt work for the appinfo.json and the like Jul 28 17:20:39 ah Jul 28 17:20:43 well thats what i needed it for Jul 28 17:20:44 lol Jul 28 17:20:48 ill just delete it Jul 28 17:20:57 i dont think those take comments Jul 28 17:28:32 if i turn off developer mode it just disables the novaterm connection right? Jul 28 17:29:52 Epyon1: yup Jul 28 17:38:35 anyone noticed performance difs with dev mode on/off Jul 28 17:38:43 i swear my gf's pre is snappier than mine Jul 28 17:38:49 but maybe its drop bear? Jul 28 17:39:14 weird, mine got snappier in dev mode Jul 28 17:40:04 blau-mikeDG yeah i just turned mine off and it does seem snappier Jul 28 17:40:13 if you turn dev mode off, usbnet still works, right? Jul 28 17:40:21 should be all you need. Jul 28 17:40:34 i just ssh into mine Jul 28 17:40:39 same Jul 28 17:40:40 i still have dropbear running Jul 28 17:41:13 i never used usbnet Jul 28 17:42:01 is there specific format to the pdf's that the pdf reader can read? or size limitations? Jul 28 17:43:09 destinal: is that last night's build or from git? Jul 28 17:43:58 Lurking_Grue: It appears the media player bookmarking patch just needs a refresh. It may complain, but it should apply fine. I did some very basic testing of it and it seems to be fine. Jul 28 17:44:05 turning off dev mode now Jul 28 17:44:57 yeah def less laggy with dev turned off which is weird Jul 28 17:46:21 it just seems i dont see how 3gs and pre have about the same processor and pre takes long to do tranistions Jul 28 17:46:27 anybody else thinks trans are long Jul 28 17:46:35 Zuchmir2: last night's, don't have a cross compiler set up at work Jul 28 17:46:37 wtf i just noticed that the help rotates but our email doesnt Jul 28 17:46:37 like pressing a name in in the buddy list etc Jul 28 17:47:20 ok, i have to find bitchx for pre... Jul 28 17:47:35 atlanta i think its reasonable though but im coming from a wm5 phone Jul 28 17:48:11 atlanta which was wayyy laggy interface Jul 28 17:48:12 ehhh depends i dont mind cuz i love the phone but coming from q9c win6 , pre can step it up a bit Jul 28 17:49:07 atlanta yeah i had the moto q Jul 28 17:49:24 yea that was my first love Jul 28 17:49:24 lol Jul 28 17:49:46 its a bit choppy and laggy :( Jul 28 17:49:58 i just discovered the pinch/pull in email list to preview Jul 28 17:49:59 pretty slick Jul 28 17:50:16 blau-mikeDG: yea i like it Jul 28 17:50:18 well i enjoyed the flexibilty but a windows os wasnt the best written Jul 28 17:50:27 i think its a little hard to use Jul 28 17:50:29 Epyon1: That is true Jul 28 17:50:46 i would rather just click the email Jul 28 17:54:34 i hate Aim doesnt show the full status Jul 28 17:55:04 i had an idea earlier today Jul 28 17:55:20 get a webos frotend for the libpurple Jul 28 17:55:52 all the chat stuff is built already just make a nice frontend for it Jul 28 17:56:11 doesn't the webos chat use libpurple already? Jul 28 17:56:19 oh it does? Jul 28 17:56:41 I thought so, I might be wrong Jul 28 17:56:47 summatusmentis: yea it does Jul 28 17:56:54 well thats cool Jul 28 17:57:00 libpurple is part of the OS apps Jul 28 17:57:05 that it utilizses Jul 28 17:57:05 man palm outsmarted me already Jul 28 17:57:17 it does use libpurple Jul 28 17:57:21 Epyon1: Get yahoo and msn together Jul 28 17:57:24 :-) Jul 28 17:57:34 but idk if they compiled all of the IM protocols Jul 28 17:57:58 yeah they probally left msn out cause of the ssl libs Jul 28 17:59:37 i know they make a full featured console app for libpurple Jul 28 18:01:02 wow...interface is really slow for aim Jul 28 18:04:33 Epyon1: yup takes forever to laod Jul 28 18:05:04 and now i have all the aim names in my contacts crap Jul 28 18:05:21 Gotta Remove your aim account to make them PUFF Jul 28 18:05:24 away Jul 28 18:05:48 some of the sync stuff is nice but really i dont need aim contacts cluttering my phone up Jul 28 18:06:22 is there any way to sign out of aim? Jul 28 18:06:39 yea click Jul 28 18:06:45 the green icon at the top Jul 28 18:06:51 the status icon Jul 28 18:06:54 ah ok Jul 28 18:06:56 then click sign off Jul 28 18:07:03 still leaves the contacts there thoug Jul 28 18:07:08 i just learned to live with it Jul 28 18:07:13 yeah Jul 28 18:07:26 en0x: it IS libpurple, they wronte a service adapter that connects dbus to the library's functions Jul 28 18:07:31 s/onte/ote/ Jul 28 18:07:31 destinal meant: en0x: it IS libpurple, they wrote a service adapter that connects dbus to the library's functions Jul 28 18:07:49 It's in the open source repository as libpurple-adapter but it's seriously incomplete Jul 28 18:07:59 ill just have to go through and match up the aim names in my contacts Jul 28 18:08:11 missing headers and missing cjson library sources Jul 28 18:08:26 destinal ah ok Jul 28 18:08:31 i know this is an unrelated question, but most of you guys are good at this stuff Jul 28 18:08:53 whats up? Jul 28 18:08:56 if i dd my old hard drive into an of=/tmp/image.iso will it copy the free space over too? Jul 28 18:09:06 they also provide their patches to libpurple so you can rebuild it but without being able to rebuild the adapter I don't think you can integrate more IM protocols Jul 28 18:09:22 ie the service won't call them Jul 28 18:09:23 and if so, is there a way to have it ignore free space? Jul 28 18:10:07 what about a independent program Jul 28 18:10:11 compress you free space! Jul 28 18:10:13 a couple of us have requested code under the GPL (since it's part of the license, they need to make it available) so hopefully it's just a matter of time Jul 28 18:10:43 i would rather have an independent im client Jul 28 18:11:03 Epyon1: regardless you need a service Jul 28 18:11:16 yeah Jul 28 18:11:33 and right now we don't have any working code for c++ services and wrapping it in java is just ugly Jul 28 18:12:09 destinal oh yeah i was thinking about how i would the the java to interact Jul 28 18:12:10 you could reverse engineer the c++ services interface and write one that way, but they have to provide the code, so the palm code would be the easiest way to go Jul 28 18:12:22 libpurple-adapter is a c or c++ service Jul 28 18:12:30 nude robots.org Jul 28 18:12:35 haha Jul 28 18:12:36 wtf Jul 28 18:13:03 lol Jul 28 18:21:12 So right now if you wanted to do a purple modification you'd have to do your own java service as a JNI wrapper for purple. ugly :( Jul 28 18:21:29 yeah i was just reading the same site as you Jul 28 18:21:29 destinal: can't get ircii to compile Jul 28 18:21:50 Zuchmir2: just install bitchx from optware Jul 28 18:22:01 Epyon1: site? Jul 28 18:22:39 which site? Jul 28 18:22:44 destinal i was just doing a google search and was reading up on it Jul 28 18:22:48 destinal http://pidgin.im/pipermail/devel/2007-May/000938.html Jul 28 18:23:01 oh, thanks. Jul 28 18:23:27 Epyon1: no I wasn't looking at that, just figured to connect java and c (purple) code you'd need JNI Jul 28 18:24:13 a native c++ service as palm did is really the right way to do things Jul 28 18:24:14 destinal first time ive heard of it actually but my java experience is more class work then actual program implementation Jul 28 18:25:18 yeah Jul 28 18:32:49 zuchmir2: very cool (the font switching stuff)! Jul 28 18:33:07 have you guys thought about adding beep (^G) support? Jul 28 18:33:17 bell, yay Jul 28 18:33:28 er bell Jul 28 18:34:37 should be easy, though probably the "right" way to do it is to push a bell event back up to mojo and have the mojo app play the sound. it would definitely have to be switchable on/off Jul 28 18:37:23 from termplugin? hmm Jul 28 18:37:47 oh, it could even use the notification system... hmmm, possibilities Jul 28 18:38:14 it could show context in the notification area (whatever they call that) around the bell Jul 28 18:38:22 res Jul 28 18:38:30 test Jul 28 18:38:48 hehe irc from my pre Jul 28 18:38:51 epyon_: :) Jul 28 18:39:14 u got irc on your pre? Jul 28 18:39:21 everyone got Jul 28 18:39:21 :} Jul 28 18:39:25 really Jul 28 18:39:25 ? Jul 28 18:39:33 webchat in the browser? Jul 28 18:39:41 usong bitchx in terminal Jul 28 18:39:48 oh ok Jul 28 18:39:49 gotcha Jul 28 18:39:52 atlanta: http://twitpic.com/bx0nf Jul 28 18:40:01 bitchx is no longer developed Jul 28 18:40:02 :( Jul 28 18:40:04 epyon_: are you having the issue where you have to rotate and rotate back? Jul 28 18:40:20 to get drawing to look right Jul 28 18:40:22 yeah Jul 28 18:40:32 yes Jul 28 18:40:37 i have issue with browser even if I keep my phone in horizontal mode the browser opens in landscape Jul 28 18:40:40 :S Jul 28 18:40:43 wtf Jul 28 18:40:48 btw it does it too if you use nano too Jul 28 18:40:52 80% of time Jul 28 18:41:06 destinal: i have same thing with irssi Jul 28 18:41:16 ... and it draws very slow Jul 28 18:41:18 yeah it's a problem in drawing definitely Jul 28 18:41:26 ugh need bigger keyboard Jul 28 18:41:27 lol Jul 28 18:41:31 it drows fast for me Jul 28 18:41:50 have to see that the log shows.... Jul 28 18:42:02 I would really dig having Fennec on the Pre someday, not sure what the porting would entail Jul 28 18:42:18 fennec = fail Jul 28 18:42:34 well now i know i can stalk you guys from my pre Jul 28 18:42:35 Why's that? Jul 28 18:43:10 the browser will never come out of alpha stage and the way they visioned it is just not right Jul 28 18:43:14 a port of opera would be nice Jul 28 18:43:16 cool I'll have to check out irssi Jul 28 18:43:31 I work at Mozilla, on the webdev team Jul 28 18:43:36 i used to use opera mini on my old phone and the browser quality was about as good as the pre Jul 28 18:43:36 (btw) Jul 28 18:43:40 destinal: is there a way to have white font on black background instead of green font? Jul 28 18:43:42 just a smaller screen and keys Jul 28 18:43:56 Epyon1: opera mini uses opera servers to process the page Jul 28 18:44:11 en0x yeah i know made it real fast Jul 28 18:44:12 en0x: we just need a color selector and a fontcolor property of the embed Jul 28 18:44:22 not there yet but soon I'm sure Jul 28 18:44:29 destinal: for now its hardcoded in termplugin.so? Jul 28 18:44:33 en0x worked better than the native opera mobile Jul 28 18:44:34 yes Jul 28 18:44:40 ok Jul 28 18:44:56 and one more thing Jul 28 18:45:04 does it know utf-8? Jul 28 18:45:20 en0x: very nice Jul 28 18:45:46 [; Jul 28 18:48:28 do you guys think tabs would be useful for the pre? or do the cards take care of that Jul 28 18:49:23 I would argue cards take care of that Jul 28 18:49:40 vote cards Jul 28 18:49:50 although, I was toying with the idea of application specific "decks" Jul 28 18:49:51 no need to stage yet another way of managing multiple windows on it Jul 28 18:50:05 so you could have cards within the context of the application Jul 28 18:50:11 yeah Jul 28 18:50:37 was just thinking about if it would be nice to have tabs or just as ez to hit the button and swipe through them Jul 28 18:50:58 hmm what would be nice is landscaped cards Jul 28 18:51:14 I think you'd hit hardware constraints before you run into card management issues though Jul 28 18:51:42 oh yeah Jul 28 18:52:10 irss Jul 28 18:52:20 whoops Jul 28 18:52:24 lol Jul 28 18:52:41 for some reason my pre terminal stopped responding to everything but enter :) Jul 28 18:52:55 yeah mine does that alot Jul 28 18:53:00 tris: check the yellow status line Jul 28 18:53:13 see if you have shift or control or gesture locks on Jul 28 18:53:20 or sym Jul 28 18:53:24 yeah, nope Jul 28 18:53:35 tried hitting all those an extra 1 or 2 times too Jul 28 18:53:36 you probably lost focus then Jul 28 18:53:43 have to check into that Jul 28 18:53:50 respawn doesn't work either (is that supposed to work?) Jul 28 18:53:50 enter is the only key that works without focus Jul 28 18:54:03 how do you get focus back? Jul 28 18:54:06 tap it? Jul 28 18:54:07 did you guys ever fix pipe? Jul 28 18:54:30 i think pipe is fixed according to the webpage Jul 28 18:54:34 tap doesn't work to regain focus Jul 28 18:54:34 Epyon1: we probably need to add a tap event focuser or something Jul 28 18:55:07 destinal or just check for focus Jul 28 18:55:26 oh destinal, you guys are using a 2008q1 toolchain from somewhere? any reason? i grabbed the 2009q1 one Jul 28 18:55:31 well it has to be something in the mojo Jul 28 18:56:08 tris: rwhitby has set up the build box, he's the one to ask there Jul 28 19:10:59 btw: Anyone who saw my merge request on gitorious last night and is in here now - rwhitby took care of it :) Jul 28 19:11:13 I guess it broadcast to every team member, and now I'm getting responses :) Jul 28 19:12:04 but, it's confusing because I've since deleted my cloned repo Jul 28 19:17:00 baaah Jul 28 19:17:06 I wish I was here in the beginning of the scene Jul 28 19:17:33 how did people first get access to the Pre? Developer console + install ssh? Jul 28 19:17:56 This pretty much still is the beginning :) Jul 28 19:18:00 www.webos-internals.org has the tutorial Jul 28 19:18:19 magic :) Jul 28 19:18:20 ;) Jul 28 19:18:22 yeah thers not much that is bug free yet Jul 28 19:18:25 haha Jul 28 19:18:46 hmm Jul 28 19:18:51 every new web os release i install less hacks out of lazyness Jul 28 19:18:58 i havent even installd my drag menus yet :( Jul 28 19:19:01 lol Jul 28 19:19:06 do you guys think a public unlock is coming soon? :D Jul 28 19:19:10 i just got back to where i was b4 the 1.1 release Jul 28 19:20:11 * aYellowBanana is curious Jul 28 19:20:22 how are bin utilities "specifically compile for the pre"? Jul 28 19:20:45 aYellowBanana: what do you mean Jul 28 19:21:30 I was looking at a page, forget it already, and it said now that the community is growing, you can use the Pre's internal linux just like any other with "thousands of utilities specifically compiled for the pre" Jul 28 19:21:46 I'm curious, how would I go about compiling something for the pre? Jul 28 19:21:55 thers a repository Jul 28 19:22:06 similar to the way ubuntu has one Jul 28 19:22:15 just for the pre's arcetecture Jul 28 19:22:24 i need some recognition, im gonna release my shortcut app Jul 28 19:22:32 here it is, You can install the Optware package manager (ipkg-opt) and use it to install over 1300 Linux utilities and command-line applications that have been specifically compiled to run on the Pre. Jul 28 19:22:39 yep Jul 28 19:22:45 aYellowBanana: Check out http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=cross-compile&go=Go Jul 28 19:22:45 shortcut app? Jul 28 19:22:47 whats it do Jul 28 19:22:54 lmorchard, thanks, I'll try that out Jul 28 19:23:03 does the Pre use ARM? Jul 28 19:23:08 yurp Jul 28 19:23:08 too lazy to find out :-/ Jul 28 19:23:11 I haven't tried any of that, but that'd be my first stop Jul 28 19:23:11 o? Jul 28 19:23:17 it makes launcher shortcuts, http://webos.mikedg.com Jul 28 19:23:21 hmm, I really want to use Jul 28 19:23:30 'ps' 'gdb' and some more Jul 28 19:23:44 you can copy existing ones to get them to come up as different universal search names, have a shortcut that directly calls someone with one click Jul 28 19:23:49 yes five guys is awesome Jul 28 19:23:50 I really want the launcher to have categories instead of nameless pages Jul 28 19:23:51 shortcuts for directions to an address Jul 28 19:24:07 considering hacking it up, but might be easier to write a new launcher heh Jul 28 19:24:37 looks cool Jul 28 19:26:22 thanks Jul 28 19:26:41 oh crap just ran df -h on my pre Jul 28 19:26:41 i started work to dynamically load the shortcuts form the web Jul 28 19:26:42 arrgggh. I'm fucking stuck with AT&T. motherfuckin contracts.... Jul 28 19:26:47 but thats a security issue :( Jul 28 19:27:16 I want the Pre to be unlcoked!! >.< Jul 28 19:27:27 the os is on like a 400mb partition Jul 28 19:27:34 uncoked haha Jul 28 19:27:51 lol Jul 28 19:27:52 im out Jul 28 19:29:11 yes, uncocked Jul 28 19:31:36 hey folks, I have some questions about accessing via SSH, if someone has a moment Jul 28 19:31:41 even if pre is unlocked its not gonna give u anything because it wont work on GSM version Jul 28 19:31:46 aYellowBanana: ^ Jul 28 19:31:52 haha Jul 28 19:31:53 eain: just ask Jul 28 19:31:59 en0x, is it on CDMA??? O_o Jul 28 19:32:08 aYellowBanana: omg wtf u r from? Jul 28 19:32:15 I know right?? Jul 28 19:32:18 XD Jul 28 19:32:21 sprint is cdma Jul 28 19:32:24 probably texas Jul 28 19:32:24 :S Jul 28 19:32:31 Chicago, kthx Jul 28 19:32:40 i have cusins in texas Jul 28 19:32:45 er chicago Jul 28 19:32:47 I've set up access to linux over novaterm, and set up Optware, users, and access from http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Jul 28 19:32:47 lol Jul 28 19:32:55 but then how exactly do I SSH into it? Jul 28 19:33:06 eain: connect to wifi or use evdo Jul 28 19:33:07 you using putty or linux? Jul 28 19:33:12 then go to checkmyip.com Jul 28 19:33:22 and do ssh -P 222 -l urlogin IP Jul 28 19:33:23 ;] Jul 28 19:33:24 done Jul 28 19:33:35 ok and now u can transfer 10 buck to my paypal account Jul 28 19:33:35 ;] Jul 28 19:33:40 email? Jul 28 19:33:51 pawelkilian@gmail.com ;] Jul 28 19:33:56 haha Jul 28 19:34:07 the en0x tip hotline Jul 28 19:34:13 10$ a min Jul 28 19:34:23 quickest money Jul 28 19:34:29 i should write a webos app Jul 28 19:34:41 make it alpha and only ppl who donate will get it Jul 28 19:34:42 ;]\ Jul 28 19:34:47 and what it will do Jul 28 19:34:50 it will just say. Jul 28 19:34:52 write a webos app that pm's you to ask questions Jul 28 19:34:58 "u got screwed for 10 bucks" Jul 28 19:35:01 haha Jul 28 19:35:28 like the imRich app for iphone Jul 28 19:35:28 :) Jul 28 19:35:35 haha Jul 28 19:35:39 en0x, jestes Polakiem? ;) Jul 28 19:35:40 best app ever Jul 28 19:35:43 I loved the $1000 iPhone app. Not that I bought it, but I love that someone made it AND SIX PEOPLE BOUGHT IT Jul 28 19:35:49 aYellowBanana: tak Jul 28 19:36:40 Epyon1: for sure Jul 28 19:36:55 just photoshop some stuff and let it sell Jul 28 19:36:56 ;] Jul 28 19:37:08 Oh, and en0x, thank you. I use the old SSh client for windows by SSH, but I couldn't figure out how to actually get TO the device. It never occurred to me to go to checkmyip.com Jul 28 19:37:13 Why are you guys hating on Texas? Jul 28 19:37:30 psykoz: because i saw this guy in hells kitchen Jul 28 19:37:32 http://www.flickr.com/photos/24917549@N04/3762843475/sizes/l/ Jul 28 19:37:33 the texas guy Jul 28 19:37:37 and he is CRAZY! Jul 28 19:37:39 cause of that ^ Jul 28 19:37:46 lol Jul 28 19:37:50 gotta love digg Jul 28 19:38:13 psykoz: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060630111129AAkUnce here is your answer Jul 28 19:38:22 i think the little kid's cart makes the picture. lmfao Jul 28 19:39:05 en0x, weirdo ;) Jul 28 19:39:13 hahahaha Jul 28 19:39:40 "the texas smile" Jul 28 19:39:43 that one marine guys, I would love to beat the living shit out of him Jul 28 19:40:08 when connecting over EVDO, it tells me that the host is unreachable Jul 28 19:40:22 wifi is not an option at the moment Jul 28 19:40:33 eain: because u havent modified your firewall file ;) Jul 28 19:40:37 I thought trying to connect to devices that are on EVDO or 3G is impossible for the way they're NATed or something? :-/ Jul 28 19:40:48 ah Jul 28 19:40:51 aYellowBanana: it is possible Jul 28 19:40:55 just setup hamachi Jul 28 19:41:09 working on that ;) Jul 28 19:41:12 static ip no matter where you are Jul 28 19:41:16 eain: it says right in the file that u added to ustart or wherever it was Jul 28 19:41:19 aka DNS? Jul 28 19:41:27 Epyon1: i use ddclient with my own runing hack Jul 28 19:41:47 en0x i use hamachi on like 4 other comps so it works for me Jul 28 19:41:48 en0x, czy jestes w Polsce? Jul 28 19:42:25 ustart? I just ran the scripts that http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps mentioned ;) Jul 28 19:43:13 oh wow, I see saurik in here. He's going to be doing Pre development now? XD XD Jul 28 19:44:18 en0x: where should I be looking on the wiki? Jul 28 19:45:20 hmm Jul 28 19:45:22 wait Jul 28 19:45:52 man the mounting as a usb drive kills every thing Jul 28 19:46:10 Ah! Got it Jul 28 19:46:15 I was using the wrong port # Jul 28 19:46:22 yeah i did that too Jul 28 19:46:52 epyon1: do you have hamachi set up? actually i imagine that wouldn't work as it's binary-only and not compiled for arm Jul 28 19:47:08 yeah theres some nokia build Jul 28 19:47:17 Hey guys, does anyone know where the launcher icon can be found? Jul 28 19:47:23 tris its under the linux section Jul 28 19:47:33 i've been meaning to set up openvpn with very long timeouts so that my pre can have a static ip which floats between evdo and wifi Jul 28 19:47:45 err long keepalives that is (so as to not run down the battery) Jul 28 19:47:58 eain: sed -i '/INPUT/ s/ -i eth0//' /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear . Run this if u havent enabled access thru wifi/evdo Jul 28 19:48:07 tris ah yeah idk how bad hamachi has been hitting my batt Jul 28 19:48:25 en0x, I got in, I'm looking at it now Jul 28 19:48:28 great some how i crashed dolphin Jul 28 19:48:29 kk Jul 28 19:48:35 eain: port 222 Jul 28 19:48:43 although the spam from root telling me that it's going to sleep or waking up is annoying ;) Jul 28 19:49:03 theres a cmd to turn that off when its plugged in Jul 28 19:49:04 well ur device has to be awake for u to be able to connect to it Jul 28 19:49:08 eain: ^ Jul 28 19:49:16 it does? Jul 28 19:49:21 haha Jul 28 19:49:23 any way to set it to not go to sleep? Jul 28 19:49:29 mine allows connections on port 222 when asleep, but only on the evdo. Jul 28 19:49:35 Epyon1: i modified a file and now I have to turn of the screen after an hour which is enough Jul 28 19:49:40 then it scrolls that silly 'powerd' stuff on the console. Jul 28 19:49:56 bougyman: mine doesnt if you dont have active connection on evdo it wont work and when you put the device to sleep evdo doesnt work Jul 28 19:50:00 afaik Jul 28 19:50:01 or who know Jul 28 19:50:04 never got into it Jul 28 19:50:09 en0x i had some command that just makes it stay on when its plugged it some luna cmd Jul 28 19:50:18 lol i'm in the taping mood today Jul 28 19:50:29 haha Jul 28 19:50:29 Epyon1: seen it Jul 28 19:50:42 ha! Jul 28 19:50:43 http://www.worldchampionshiprockymountainoysters.com/pictures2008/I%20don%27t%20know%20anyone%20who%20could%20resist%20a%20Texas%20Smile%20Like%20this..JPG Jul 28 19:50:46 ;] Jul 28 19:50:48 texas smile! Jul 28 19:50:52 i wish the touchstone allowed usbnet access, too Jul 28 19:50:55 that would be kickin. Jul 28 19:51:03 i solved the powerd sleeping problem by just setting it to play some mp3s :) Jul 28 19:51:05 * en0x dont have a touchstone :( Jul 28 19:51:11 and the touchstone only works in the car and on an ac plug Jul 28 19:51:12 tris: lol ;] Jul 28 19:51:15 hey guys, is there a WebOS emulator somewhere out there yet? Jul 28 19:51:16 not with a computer usb port. Jul 28 19:51:20 aYellowBanana: yes. Jul 28 19:51:26 #webos Jul 28 19:51:28 aYellowBanana: developer.pal.com Jul 28 19:51:31 aYellowBanana: developer.palm.com Jul 28 19:51:34 i do wonder about that though...is it always going to sleep and waking up every few seconds even when i'm not ssh'd in, i wonder... Jul 28 19:51:44 thanks guys Jul 28 19:51:47 oh yeah to save battery Jul 28 19:52:08 it looks like it wakes up to poll for changes to the subscribed services. Jul 28 19:52:09 yeah it still just seems like excessive waking Jul 28 19:52:09 run pandora Jul 28 19:52:10 ;] Jul 28 19:52:28 well your trying to use it Jul 28 19:52:58 this is just an idle ssh connection though, should be passing no packets Jul 28 19:53:06 ah Jul 28 19:53:10 no tcp or ssh keepalives Jul 28 19:53:16 there is no such as idle Jul 28 19:53:22 uggh, I fucking hate virtual box Jul 28 19:53:24 there is always a pocket Jul 28 19:53:25 ; Jul 28 19:53:57 * aYellowBanana is curious what Ipkg is, hops on gogle Jul 28 19:54:25 yap Jul 28 19:54:30 uncle google knows everything Jul 28 19:54:40 what workaround have you guys used for the usb drive thing Jul 28 19:54:51 what usb thing? Jul 28 19:54:53 usbnet? Jul 28 19:54:56 usb thingie/ Jul 28 19:54:57 when you connect to pc Jul 28 19:54:57 it doesnt work on mac Jul 28 19:54:58 ;( Jul 28 19:55:17 for the usb drive like a usb stick Jul 28 19:55:30 it kills every thing including hamachi Jul 28 19:55:32 ssh Jul 28 19:55:38 i think it should be much easier way to do it Jul 28 19:55:40 Epyon1, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Linux_DDNS_for_EVDO Jul 28 19:55:44 but i'm just saying Jul 28 19:56:19 you think an ftp server would take too much resources? Jul 28 19:56:31 nah Jul 28 19:57:02 i was using sshfs but i keep getting write problems cause i dont have permissions Jul 28 19:57:11 setup nfs Jul 28 19:57:22 Hm. I try to sudo, and it asks me for a password, but I never set up a password for root... Jul 28 19:57:35 not a root password Jul 28 19:57:40 sudo is the password for the user your in Jul 28 19:57:49 the user password looks like u didnt even know what did u do with that bootstrap script Jul 28 19:57:53 ;] Jul 28 19:58:16 Epyon1, u.nic0rn@live.com Jul 28 19:58:18 whoops Jul 28 19:58:20 hahahah Jul 28 19:58:26 lol Jul 28 19:58:30 dude, check out that link I told you. I think that might be what you're looking for Jul 28 19:58:39 nah Jul 28 19:58:43 i use hamachi for that Jul 28 19:58:47 ew Jul 28 19:58:52 * aYellowBanana slaps Epyon Jul 28 19:58:56 >_> Jul 28 19:59:08 time to go home Jul 28 19:59:12 enough work for today Jul 28 19:59:13 ;] Jul 28 19:59:28 hahahaha Jul 28 19:59:29 whats wrong with hamachi Jul 28 19:59:32 en0x, I see you're hard at work Jul 28 19:59:41 ;] Jul 28 19:59:41 yeah ive got about another hour Jul 28 19:59:49 system analyst Jul 28 19:59:49 ;] Jul 28 19:59:50 then im leaving work cause im workin hard Jul 28 19:59:54 lol Jul 28 20:00:05 currently installing debian on the pre :-D Jul 28 20:00:10 heh Jul 28 20:00:11 lame Jul 28 20:00:11 ;] Jul 28 20:00:14 install windows on it Jul 28 20:00:15 ;] Jul 28 20:00:18 en0x, are you analysing our IRC system? :P Jul 28 20:00:19 screw that Jul 28 20:00:22 ok im out later Jul 28 20:00:27 windows moble Jul 28 20:00:31 bad Jul 28 20:00:33 aYellowBanana: if they pay for ircing why not? :P Jul 28 20:00:40 haha, hell yeah Jul 28 20:01:05 Epyon1: debian or debian chroot? Jul 28 20:01:11 debian chroot Jul 28 20:01:35 i hear there are guys working on gentoo for the pre though Jul 28 20:01:38 oe is similar enough you should be able to just replace it, unlike android Jul 28 20:01:57 which would be sweet cause of the full source repositories they have Jul 28 20:02:11 does debian have upstart? Jul 28 20:02:12 * aYellowBanana wants a Palm Pre so bad Jul 28 20:02:13 so you would have a huge repository Jul 28 20:02:22 pull out of att then Jul 28 20:02:30 * aYellowBanana is on contract Jul 28 20:02:31 not sure Jul 28 20:02:37 pay to get out of it Jul 28 20:02:50 aYellowBanana: what phone? Jul 28 20:02:51 * aYellowBanana and is definately not switching to CDMA. and come to think of it, the contract ends in like March.... Jul 28 20:02:51 With Gentoo installed on the pre would it still work as a phone? Jul 28 20:03:08 if luna works it will still work as a phone Jul 28 20:03:14 true Jul 28 20:03:18 tmzt, had a blackjack but parents are punishing me with a shitty sony ericsson now cause I got the blackjack pickpocketed on the bus Jul 28 20:03:19 and there's no reason for luna not to work Jul 28 20:03:21 def not at least right now they would have to port luna over Jul 28 20:03:31 which blackjack was it? Jul 28 20:03:38 first gen. I don't like the second Jul 28 20:03:45 omap? Jul 28 20:03:46 sorry to but in but I keep getting C:\Program Files (x86)\Palm\SDK\bin>novacom -d usb -t open tty:// Jul 28 20:03:46 unable to find device anyone know why it will not talk to my pre. Its in devl mode. Jul 28 20:03:52 i had the moto q Jul 28 20:04:02 on Sprint? Jul 28 20:04:08 did you run the novasomthing.py Jul 28 20:04:20 yeah Jul 28 20:04:29 I was/am working on linux for the cdma one, have to finish my research and update my board though Jul 28 20:04:38 I should point out that I am also running vista 64 Jul 28 20:04:50 what the q? you hacked to bootloader? Jul 28 20:04:57 no, using haret Jul 28 20:05:19 i still have my old q it would be fun to put linux on it Jul 28 20:05:21 how old are you guys? Jul 28 20:05:26 bootloader could be flashed though, #openezx sometime if your still interested in playing with it, it's to off topic here Jul 28 20:05:50 yeah Jul 28 20:06:24 idk what i would do with it cause it would have no service and doesnt have a wifi radio like the pre Jul 28 20:07:00 bigwookiee -- if you're running vista 64 and that didn't work, then the sdk didn't install correctly. Jul 28 20:07:18 aYellowBanana -- I'm 54 Jul 28 20:07:24 and your parents were right. Jul 28 20:07:49 Epyon1: bluetooth, but yeah, I have the same problem, I have a verizon touch pro now and the q sits Jul 28 20:07:53 no they weren't! >_> :'( Jul 28 20:07:58 Epyon1: that's the problem with cdma Jul 28 20:08:17 tmzt haha yeah Jul 28 20:08:31 bigwookiee -- did you install the java64 jdk before installing the palm sdk? Jul 28 20:08:40 * aYellowBanana hates CDMA Jul 28 20:09:42 * aYellowBanana also hates Virtual box. Jul 28 20:09:47 why aYellowBanana ? Cdma provides better call density for the same number of towers and transmitters, -- i.e. more calls going through on crowded towers. GSM is "fluffy." Jul 28 20:09:49 * aYellowBanana hates a lot of things. Jul 28 20:09:52 it isnt that bad on sprint cauist its cheaper Jul 28 20:10:24 aYellowBanana you might want to get over that. People don't like a hater. Find some joy in your life. -- Hmmm I suspect you're 15. Jul 28 20:10:27 Rick_, you bring up a good point. And I will bring up a bad one cause I don't have any good ones. I like them because of SIM cards. They fascinate me, and I like them so much Jul 28 20:11:03 Rick_, I'm just jokin around. I'm a fun guy. and it's disturbing how dead on you were with the age. Jul 28 20:11:17 aYellowBanana that's not a cdma vs gsm thing. The folks who make cdma phones COULD have decided to put the identity in a chip. They didn'tbut it has nothing WHAT SO EVER to do with the back-haul protocal. Jul 28 20:11:37 will the pre have voice dial? Jul 28 20:11:38 cough cough cough. I taught high school. Jul 28 20:11:38 yes, I know. But then I guess it's my perogative. Jul 28 20:11:42 haha i could have guessed you were around 15 Jul 28 20:11:51 yes, eventually jwm. Jul 28 20:11:53 Rick_, haha! Really? What subject? Jul 28 20:11:57 sweet Jul 28 20:12:02 physcis, chemistry earth science Jul 28 20:12:19 wow. This reinforces my theory. Hackers are the smartest people around. No doubt about it Jul 28 20:12:42 Renaissance men. Very well rounded in most cases. Really great crowd.... Jul 28 20:13:20 what are you planning on studing banana Jul 28 20:13:54 aYellowBanana: geeks always love to learn any and all things Jul 28 20:14:10 hah yeah Jul 28 20:15:05 ugh Jul 28 20:15:13 Rick_: I know that, but I'm using cdma to mean qualcomm's is95 without uim, in the senese it's used in the US Jul 28 20:15:47 fuck. I'm locked out of my nick Jul 28 20:15:59 this just reinforces my hate for virtual box. resetting my connection without telling me Jul 28 20:16:04 >_> Jul 28 20:16:18 how long will it take for the nick to reset? :-/ Jul 28 20:16:35 bougyman: so you want a contactless charging system with wired data? Jul 28 20:16:52 of course! Jul 28 20:17:01 yes! Jul 28 20:17:01 Rick_, could you do be a favor and kick that asshole "aYellowBanana"? :) :) Jul 28 20:17:05 power for the ppl Jul 28 20:17:06 me* Jul 28 20:17:14 bougyman: how did you do that? Jul 28 20:17:41 aYellowBanana_: /msg nickserv ghost (nick) Jul 28 20:17:58 ah. thank you. I don't use IRC much :( Jul 28 20:18:17 it says I may not ghost a yellowbanana >_< Jul 28 20:18:25 the other one Jul 28 20:18:27 sorry Jul 28 20:18:31 you have to type a password Jul 28 20:18:48 I'm sorry what? Jul 28 20:19:00 you have to register your nick with the nickserv Jul 28 20:19:03 win 10 Jul 28 20:19:11 type /motd and read it. Jul 28 20:19:15 I registered aYellowBanana Jul 28 20:19:18 ghost Jul 28 20:19:21 but then I accidently registered this nick Jul 28 20:19:22 then you have a password Jul 28 20:19:29 I wasn't thinking at the moment :-/ Jul 28 20:19:33 hah Jul 28 20:20:18 what did that do.... Jul 28 20:20:35 YAY! Jul 28 20:20:37 hahaha Jul 28 20:20:39 you can drop aYellowBanana_ Jul 28 20:20:43 * aYellowBanana thanks everyone Jul 28 20:21:15 are you guys "Packin' the K!"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHxyHlFZ778 Jul 28 20:21:24 that won a contest at Blackhat. hahahha Jul 28 20:23:23 okay, let's see if I implemented that new global search option... Jul 28 20:23:30 didn't show up. rebooting... Jul 28 20:24:37 eain, are you trying something like that global search on iPhone 3.0? Jul 28 20:24:58 I'm doing this: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Global_Search_Addons Jul 28 20:25:01 but with IMDb Jul 28 20:25:27 nice Jul 28 20:25:32 Okay, it shows up after a reboot Jul 28 20:25:33 i need to do that sometime Jul 28 20:25:35 intnert movie database? Jul 28 20:25:39 yeah Jul 28 20:25:42 but isn't clickable, heh Jul 28 20:26:04 will have to poke at it later, time to get back to work Jul 28 20:26:21 oh, that ' Jul 28 20:26:25 that's fucking cool!!! Jul 28 20:26:26 is opensearch supported? Jul 28 20:26:38 thanks for your help, guys :) Jul 28 20:26:39 i think it is i had it in opera mini Jul 28 20:26:43 np man Jul 28 20:26:48 I'll be back later ;) Jul 28 20:29:07 I want to add those.... Jul 28 20:29:39 is there like an apt-get for the Pre? I would want to code an app that allows you to add/remove those entries in that list and gives you TONS to choose from Jul 28 20:29:59 sorta Jul 28 20:30:07 slightly different Jul 28 20:30:19 why are you hangin in this room if you have an ipod? Jul 28 20:30:25 iTouch Jul 28 20:30:43 I wanted to see how it is early in a scene. I despise easy tuts and tools Jul 28 20:30:59 why? Jul 28 20:31:02 makes it ez'er for you Jul 28 20:31:21 I like to know how things work. the whole point is to learn, for me Jul 28 20:31:32 I want to be able to code my own hacks and stuff Jul 28 20:31:42 I want to be able to take a fresh device and start modding it Jul 28 20:31:55 get going on the itouch Jul 28 20:31:58 turn it into a phone Jul 28 20:32:08 hah Jul 28 20:32:13 im serious Jul 28 20:32:16 hahaha Jul 28 20:32:18 skype Jul 28 20:32:23 it's out there Jul 28 20:32:35 I'm such an uber leet h4x0r downloading Skype from the appstore Jul 28 20:33:04 yeah but your itouch is now a phone Jul 28 20:33:16 umm....yeah. Jul 28 20:33:33 no mic? Jul 28 20:33:41 and since I have the first gen, no mic and no speaker Jul 28 20:33:48 and the gay mic attachment is gay. Jul 28 20:33:51 :-/ Jul 28 20:34:19 but then it brings me back to the main point, I'd rather be helping out the iPhone-Linux team reversing engineering the NAND and shit instead of instaling Skype from the appstore... Jul 28 20:34:22 or bluetooth Jul 28 20:34:29 which is the really bad part Jul 28 20:34:34 bluetooth on the iPhone is a pain in the ass' Jul 28 20:34:43 it would be a great dun/pan tablet Jul 28 20:34:43 so I've heard Jul 28 20:35:05 but I wouldn't even know where to start Jul 28 20:35:08 what would I do? Jul 28 20:36:04 google Jul 28 20:36:15 -____- Jul 28 20:36:16 what? Jul 28 20:36:26 you always start at google Jul 28 20:37:39 wahahahaha! yay! I love emulators ^.^ Jul 28 20:37:45 * aYellowBanana plays with WebOS Jul 28 20:38:10 erm.. Jul 28 20:38:14 what's the home button? :( Jul 28 20:38:20 and does it have sound? :-/ Jul 28 20:42:07 destinal, mrvc: looks like TERM_SET_SCROLL_REGION is not being handled (what's it supposed to do?) Jul 28 20:43:14 * aYellowBanana rages. What's the button for home on the Emulator??? Jul 28 20:44:44 escape Jul 28 20:44:51 ... Jul 28 20:44:56 actually that's back Jul 28 20:44:58 anyone seen this yet Jul 28 20:45:09 root@castle:/var/home/vitviper# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_driver Jul 28 20:45:09 omap Jul 28 20:45:22 aYellowBanana: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1744 Jul 28 20:45:41 i only noticed this since I noticed something was causing my custom CPUSpeed scaling app to cause LunaSysMgr & Java to go bonkers when i used it Jul 28 20:45:55 wasn't the scaling driver userspace before 1.1? Jul 28 20:45:57 (default Jul 28 20:47:18 jwsh, haha, I was looking at it right at that moment, but thank you Jul 28 20:48:28 i guess no one knows anything! Jul 28 20:49:13 lol yeah i guess so Jul 28 20:49:39 not us about that. Jul 28 20:49:53 you might check later vitviper -- more kernal types here later. Jul 28 20:50:45 i swear something wierd happens to me every day Jul 28 20:50:54 lol Jul 28 20:50:59 has anyone had the problem where they delete a conversation with someone Jul 28 20:51:08 and then you filter the list and person is still there Jul 28 20:51:25 with everything still there Jul 28 20:51:47 it could be cached Jul 28 20:51:56 that's what you get for having indexing I thin Jul 28 20:52:23 huh ? Jul 28 20:52:29 how do i turn it of lol Jul 28 20:53:06 its wierd because her text never come to the top when she text me Jul 28 20:53:09 i have to type her name Jul 28 20:53:17 i think my pre likes her Jul 28 20:53:17 lol Jul 28 20:53:38 lol Jul 28 20:54:03 someone help lol dont laugh at me Jul 28 20:54:09 hi everyone. Jul 28 20:54:34 Decimation: hello Jul 28 20:55:12 hello Jul 28 20:55:39 so you have a convo in the messages but you deleted it but its still there? Jul 28 20:55:46 hey guys Jul 28 20:56:54 pandora is sucking right now Jul 28 20:56:55 heeh Jul 28 20:56:59 went down for a few minutes Jul 28 20:57:02 can someone please tell me where the damn .png for the password lock screen is? Jul 28 20:57:52 can someone tell me what this mojo shit is? Is this some sort of javascript thing? Is Palm telling me that the applications I write for WebOS are not actual machine code, but JAVASCRIPT??? Jul 28 20:58:06 aYellowBanana: that's whet they're telling you Jul 28 20:58:12 for now Jul 28 20:58:13 lol Jul 28 20:58:17 FUCKING BLASPHEMY!!!!! >_< Jul 28 20:58:18 s/he/ha/ Jul 28 20:58:19 destinal meant: aYellowBanana: that's what they're telling you Jul 28 20:58:40 FUCKING BLASPHEMY AGAIN!!! >_< Jul 28 20:58:48 aYellowBanana: hey, family room. :P Jul 28 20:58:49 well im off from work guys Jul 28 20:58:54 cya all later Jul 28 20:59:04 * aYellowBanana apologizes to destinal Jul 28 20:59:13 I understand a strong reaction, wow Jul 28 20:59:27 you can make native code and wrap it in a mojo app if you want Jul 28 20:59:30 that's what terminal is Jul 28 20:59:49 have fun guys Jul 28 20:59:51 wait so all these apps on the launcher are actually javascript and stuff? Jul 28 20:59:55 * aYellowBanana waves goodbye to Epyon1 Jul 28 21:00:10 aYellowBanana: yep, js, html and css Jul 28 21:00:11 aYellowBanana: yep, you can read them and edit them. that's one of the cool parts. Jul 28 21:00:11 who are more of the kernel types on here generally? Jul 28 21:00:54 well, for fucks sake, I thought this would be a great start into mobile device development and I get a bitch slap to the face, for I DESPISE web development. Jul 28 21:01:01 * aYellowBanana is fuming Jul 28 21:01:04 aYellowBanana: it's ingeniuous really Jul 28 21:01:08 Buthow do you really feel? Jul 28 21:01:28 i personally prefer machine code, myself Jul 28 21:01:30 aYellowBanana: terminal is basically all c++ with a little bit of mojo for a UI Jul 28 21:01:46 what is this terminal you speak of? Jul 28 21:01:54 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 28 21:02:01 Instead, webOS is a way to lure web developers into mobile Jul 28 21:02:10 well...yes...that's a terminal Jul 28 21:02:18 so, really, you can write python and ruby or w/e other language that i can get onto the phone? Jul 28 21:02:25 yeah Jul 28 21:02:31 it's just a Linux environment Jul 28 21:02:37 aYellowBanana: it's a result of mine and others investigation into native linux binaries. Jul 28 21:02:37 that is pretty cool, actually Jul 28 21:02:38 Otherwise, enjoy hacking the gibson^Wunderlying Linux install Jul 28 21:02:40 is there a C++ library? Jul 28 21:02:43 running inside Luna Jul 28 21:03:02 Luna, that's like the springboard of WebOS? Jul 28 21:03:03 Epyon1: yea Jul 28 21:03:12 Luna appears to be a Java application, amirite destinal? Jul 28 21:03:13 destinal: you ever heard of a convo not deleting Jul 28 21:03:26 vitviper: no, c++ I believe Jul 28 21:03:34 the future of computing involves web standards Jul 28 21:03:51 heck, the current of computing involves them Jul 28 21:03:52 heh Jul 28 21:03:55 uh... luna services are Java though Jul 28 21:03:57 aYellowBanana: luna is the GUI and all the interface in general Jul 28 21:04:02 no escaping them even if you want to Jul 28 21:04:03 gotcha Jul 28 21:04:25 I actually prefer javascript/svg/css Jul 28 21:04:26 destinal: sound right? luna service threads are Java (from what I've seen), but the Luna UI itself is C++? Jul 28 21:04:32 pretty nice for interface development Jul 28 21:04:43 vitviper: services are written in whatever language you like, it seems Jul 28 21:04:51 eeh, I love event handled code in C Jul 28 21:04:53 vitviper: the ones that come with the pre are written in Java or C++ Jul 28 21:05:00 Cpp syntax* Jul 28 21:05:39 oh! is WebOS multitouch? Jul 28 21:05:44 atlanta: I have not Jul 28 21:05:55 aYellowBanana: yes Jul 28 21:06:11 baah, too bad I can't do multitouch gestures on the emulator >.< Jul 28 21:06:31 blah Jul 28 21:06:33 destinal: i guess I've only seen the Java services so far. I haven't seen the API for C++ services Jul 28 21:06:34 making me upset Jul 28 21:06:55 aYellowBanana: you want to? I bet we could hack it in if you want Jul 28 21:07:08 that would be amazing Jul 28 21:07:52 it would take a bit of research but we have the kernel and the touchscreen driver is there, it should be possible to abstract touch events to make them work with some external peripheral Jul 28 21:09:05 is there a top-like program that shows disk usage Jul 28 21:09:13 top-like? Jul 28 21:09:15 df? Jul 28 21:09:15 how so Jul 28 21:09:30 du -h? df -h? Jul 28 21:10:15 Technobabble: you could probably change the clock on the top bar to run the command df | grep (disk)| (random cut options) Jul 28 21:10:21 not disk usage as in storage used Jul 28 21:10:21 anyone know where the pic file is for the secure lock screen? u know the one with the clouds... Jul 28 21:10:28 but like.. what the disks are doing right at this moment Jul 28 21:10:28 be careful when you run du -h Jul 28 21:10:46 Technobabble: you mean I/O or load? Jul 28 21:10:52 Oh, like some blinkenlights for I/O? Jul 28 21:11:03 yeah, like io Jul 28 21:11:10 sorry, i didn't really know how to put it into words Jul 28 21:11:35 Technobabble: vmstat or lsof might be what you're looking for Jul 28 21:11:40 Too bad we can't get conky for webOS ;) Jul 28 21:12:14 hopspitfire: im sure you could, youll just have to rewrite it's display Jul 28 21:12:46 Would be kind of keen to have an X server in a card, not sure how intensive that wouldbe Jul 28 21:13:08 destinal, looks like there are 2 distinct regions, 1) visible region 2) scroll region, and we are using a single region for _cursorr() Jul 28 21:13:35 gkatsev: that would be pretty cool, since the main-screen is pretty useless, for the most part Jul 28 21:13:36 lmorchard: probably would waste a lot of battery Jul 28 21:13:46 X server in a card + a tiled WM would make me giggle Jul 28 21:13:52 hopspitfire: that would be awesome actually Jul 28 21:14:49 have it show battery, time in big lettering, weather, cpu usage Jul 28 21:14:51 ram usage Jul 28 21:15:13 i'd use it Jul 28 21:15:18 iotop? Jul 28 21:15:34 gkatsev: you could even have it show IO using $diskio_read and $diskio_write Jul 28 21:16:00 let's come up with even more ways of killing our battery why don't we? Jul 28 21:16:01 heheh Jul 28 21:16:04 right, but personally, im not that interested in that. Jul 28 21:16:27 I hope the next pre has a bigger screen Jul 28 21:16:30 jwm: well, we could just limit how quickly it refreshed to like once a minute or once every 5 minutes or something, no? Jul 28 21:16:33 Technobabble: Looks like there happens to be an optware package of iotop, if that's what you want Jul 28 21:16:36 I know the next model is smaller Jul 28 21:16:39 jwm: I'm quite disappointed with the 1800mah battery Jul 28 21:17:00 gkatsev: yeah but still Jul 28 21:17:01 aYellowBanana there is no home button Jul 28 21:17:18 palm eos, is it?, is supposed to be like a bb curve or something, no? Jul 28 21:17:47 I can't wait until we have screens that can slide out Jul 28 21:17:49 paper thin Jul 28 21:17:50 heh Jul 28 21:18:16 Zuchmir2: aha Jul 28 21:18:40 would be cool if we had flexible color e-ink, then it could roll up into this pen type thing or somethin Jul 28 21:18:43 g Jul 28 21:20:44 hmm, would be cool to be able to bookmark an auto-run command, like "add page to launcher" in Web Jul 28 21:22:38 er, for terminal, that is :) Jul 28 21:39:59 what purpose does novacom suit on linux? Jul 28 21:49:06 novacom is the protocal that palm uses (same as apple) to get files onto and off of the phone when not in "usb drive' mode. It's what palm-install uses, it's what the webos Dr uses. Jul 28 21:49:40 thanks Rick. that's what I thought, but then I asked myself why it's necessary Jul 28 21:49:49 oh! wait! I'm stupid, nvm Jul 28 21:50:07 a simple SSH on port 5522 on the emulator gets you a shell right? Jul 28 21:50:48 aYellowBanana: yes Jul 28 21:51:03 thanks Jul 28 21:51:22 I'm thinking of helping with the .so effort, and trying to code my own app for the system... Jul 28 22:04:48 testing scroll on term, ok now Jul 28 22:05:37 just (hopefully) got the scroll to work on term now in irc Jul 28 22:10:26 destinal: just pushed that fix Jul 28 22:10:47 Zuchmir3: cool Jul 28 22:10:52 will pull Jul 28 22:11:27 is there anything about creating a network between your computer and the pre Jul 28 22:11:31 when u type long lines in irc ut still scrolls oddly, but... at least the conversation scrolls Jul 28 22:11:45 on the wiki Jul 28 22:13:08 Epyon22 search for usbnet Jul 28 22:13:31 or if you want wifi search for adhoc Jul 28 22:13:31 Rick_: on the wiki or google Jul 28 22:13:35 on the wiki Jul 28 22:13:40 k Jul 28 22:13:45 you asked about the wiki Jul 28 22:14:11 just makin sure Jul 28 22:22:52 just (hopefully) got the scroll to work on term now in irc Jul 28 22:23:41 i get this: /opt/bin/mc: error while loading shared libraries: libext2fs.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Jul 28 22:24:15 I think ext2 is linked in, not dynamic / module Jul 28 22:25:02 actually maybe libext2fs is a userland lib? Jul 28 22:25:15 should be Jul 28 22:37:06 Rick_: the Patches page looks MUCH better Jul 28 22:49:08 is there a SIP/VoIP client for pre? Jul 28 22:49:18 is there a command I can run from terminal to see how much space I have left? Jul 28 22:49:33 df -h Jul 28 22:50:55 hi all Jul 28 22:51:03 Zuchmir2: which section are apps installed in? Jul 28 22:52:40 i think they are in /var Jul 28 22:53:01 ... /var/usr/palm/applications Jul 28 22:54:39 thanks Jul 28 22:57:47 Hello all Jul 28 23:16:35 What can be the reason for the following error: Jul 28 23:16:58 Nvm. Jul 28 23:25:33 <_neural_> cucu Jul 28 23:25:56 <_neural_> i was thinking of an app that monitor the cpu usage, can an app be launch to stay hidden and update only the pre status bar? could be possible? Jul 28 23:26:30 _neural_: cpu usage of the Pre? Jul 28 23:27:30 <_neural_> yes to track applications that use too many cpu for examples (i know that there is only one process, but this is a secondary problem :)) Jul 28 23:27:42 _neural_: conky ;) Jul 28 23:28:05 <_neural_> what's that? Jul 28 23:28:34 _neural_: interesting - in my mind, I started brainstorming about remote system monitoring on the Pre using the status bar Jul 28 23:29:00 It's a highly customizable *nix app that can monitor cpu, mem, disk usage among other things Jul 28 23:29:03 http://conky.sourceforge.net/ Jul 28 23:29:20 usally monitoring wastes alot of battery Jul 28 23:29:23 <_neural_> ok yes something similar but with just an icon on the bar Jul 28 23:29:43 Yes, unless you make it cycle every minute or 5 minutes Jul 28 23:30:11 yeah Jul 28 23:30:40 <_neural_> exactly Jul 28 23:32:04 <_neural_> for the sake of the argument... is there an application that access the upper bar ? can I make that with the SDK or I need some hack? Jul 28 23:32:45 _neural_: /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/controllers/bar-assistant.js ?? Jul 28 23:33:01 i think hes talking about the upper upper one with the time in it Jul 28 23:33:02 <_neural_> ohhh thank u! :) Jul 28 23:33:19 <_neural_> yes that one Jul 28 23:33:24 <_neural_> not the notification system Jul 28 23:33:39 the one he gave you is the menu that comes down when you tap the bar Jul 28 23:33:45 or at least has the menu Jul 28 23:33:46 lol Jul 28 23:34:13 The one I gave _neural_ is the file you edit to change the carrier string, so it should be the top bar Jul 28 23:35:26 <_neural_> someone told me there is an application that change the battery monitor to show percentage Jul 28 23:37:49 you can see the percentage if you tap the bar Jul 28 23:38:42 <_neural_> yes Jul 28 23:39:06 <_neural_> i've found that it is in the bar-assistant.js Jul 28 23:39:15 You could probably change the battery icon to the variable 'payload.percent' Jul 28 23:39:20 <_neural_> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Show_Actual_Battery_Percent Jul 28 23:40:57 I am trying to install the latest terminal. When I ran the app I get the following: http://ecreon.net/terminal_2009-28-07_193804.png Jul 28 23:41:53 thatdude: how did you install it? Jul 28 23:43:17 :mount -o remount,rw / - ipkg -o /var install Jul 28 23:43:22 * jjcklp sighs Jul 28 23:43:40 thatdude: installed from .ipk or from the feed? Jul 28 23:43:49 :feed Jul 28 23:43:59 I really wish I was more familiar with debian/opt file system structure. I'm having quite a time getting my LAMP up Jul 28 23:44:14 sorry, destinal I used the feed. Jul 28 23:44:56 thatdude: get a shell and ls -al /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Jul 28 23:45:26 destinal, did you work on the terminal app? Jul 28 23:45:33 jjcklp: yes Jul 28 23:45:49 destinal, it is SUPURB. I can not even tell you. Jul 28 23:46:08 destinal: ls: /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so: No such file or directory Jul 28 23:47:22 jjcklp: several other people besides me have helped and mrvc and Zuchmir2 especially deserve credit Jul 28 23:47:30 jjcklp: but thanks for the compliment Jul 28 23:47:42 glad you enjoy it Jul 28 23:48:38 destinal: Any idea? Jul 28 23:50:31 thatdude: try ls -al /var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Jul 28 23:51:26 destinal: It's located in that path. Jul 28 23:51:35 thatdude@castle:/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins$ ls -al /var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/term Jul 28 23:51:35 plugin.so Jul 28 23:51:35 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 246549 Jul 28 03:34 /var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Jul 28 23:51:51 thatdude: are you sure your root fs was read-write when you first installed? Jul 28 23:52:23 destinal: Well the only command I used was mount unless there is another one. Jul 28 23:52:36 ln -s /var/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins Jul 28 23:53:04 then ls -al /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins/termplugin.so Jul 28 23:53:55 done Jul 28 23:54:01 now try it out Jul 28 23:54:38 destinal: sexy! Jul 28 23:54:58 thatdude: I think the issue may be caused if you try installing it once, and you're not rw. then even if you try it again it won't actually do it again Jul 28 23:55:13 you would have to uninstall / reinstall or manually make the symlink as you did Jul 28 23:55:35 destinal: Which I did not mount when I did the first time. Jul 28 23:55:46 thatdude: yup, that's it Jul 28 23:56:04 destinal: Second time I did but like you mentioned did not work. Jul 28 23:56:05 probaby easiest way to tell people is remove, install Jul 28 23:56:40 remove the plugin that is Jul 28 23:56:42 and install Jul 28 23:56:49 (the app is a seperate package) Jul 28 23:58:26 any one familar with using the route cmd? Jul 28 23:59:16 Anyone have any experiencing getting apache to work? I downloaded it through ipkg-opt and started it with /opt/sbin/httpd start, and it's running, but it doesn't seem to be _running_. I'm used to getting a "your apache server has been successfully installed" webpage when i connect to http://localhost Jul 29 00:00:02 sounds like its running to me Jul 29 00:00:08 : Excuse my ignorance but what is the advantage of installing apache on a phone? Jul 29 00:00:58 jjcklp: Open your firewall, it's set to block all incoming connections Jul 29 00:01:13 hopspit, when you say firewall, you mean i need to adjust iptables? Jul 29 00:01:15 jjcklp: I got the same issue when I was setting up an Rsync daemon Jul 29 00:01:28 jjcklp: yup, make it accept incoming connections to port 80 Jul 29 00:01:32 thatdude, uh... a webserver that's always in my pocket and with free bandwidth? Jul 29 00:02:03 thatdude: you could run cacti, and could possibly use it as a webcam or security camera Jul 29 00:02:24 hopspitfire, although I'm sure my studying the subject would learn me, but iptables always seems like a big challenge to me. is there a quick line of code you could give me? Jul 29 00:02:32 or alternatively you could call me lazy and curse at me Jul 29 00:02:36 jjcklp: Of course, give me a sec Jul 29 00:02:42 * jjcklp beams with excitement Jul 29 00:02:52 and i'll run the code in destinal's wonderful terminal program ;) Jul 29 00:03:06 lol @ jjcklp Jul 29 00:03:12 ;) Jul 29 00:03:33 thatdude, apache is just the first step to a LAMP, and then you can get all sort of very useful and nice things going Jul 29 00:04:17 : Nothing has come to mind yet and sadly I am a webdeveloper, ouch! Jul 29 00:04:38 Oh this is interesting. My pre is plugged into my computer usb, and it's charging... IN REVERSE. Actually draining the battery really slowly lol. gotta fix my usb drivers Jul 29 00:04:57 jjcklp: /usr/sbin/iptables -A INPUT -p TCP --dport 80 -j ACCEPT Jul 29 00:04:59 * jjcklp reminds himself to at noapic on boot to menu.lst Jul 29 00:05:00 that should work Jul 29 00:05:04 hopspitfire, you're the best :) Jul 29 00:05:21 jjcklp: I just mount my phone to my touchstone and use ssh from my linux laptop. Jul 29 00:05:50 jjcklp: you should probably put that in your httpd startup script Jul 29 00:06:07 thatdude, a good option for running complicated/long code.. but not half as fun ;) when the novalty of a term on the pre wears off i prolly will do that lol Jul 29 00:06:44 lol Jul 29 00:07:19 I'm out, good luck. Jul 29 00:13:44 Hm.... Jul 29 00:16:30 Sometimes I think I know absolutely nothing about networking in general. Jul 29 00:19:09 jjcklp: I concur Jul 29 00:19:18 you know absolutely nothing about networking in generanl Jul 29 00:19:21 general* Jul 29 00:19:21 :) Jul 29 00:24:02 jwm, Thanks, I feel a lot better now :) Jul 29 00:24:46 I always feel like a super genius when I install/configure dd-wrt to act as a repeater or something to fix a friends wifi. Then I look at the iptables man pages and I want to kill myself. Jul 29 00:25:02 haha Jul 29 00:25:28 i know what you mean you know so much but theres still soo far to go Jul 29 00:25:45 Is there any great way to trouble shoot apache? Seems I opened port 80. I restarted with /opt/sbin/httpd -k restart.... and... nothing Jul 29 00:25:53 it's running according to ps -aux Jul 29 00:26:05 Epyon22, yes, if by 'so much' you mean infinity :) Jul 29 00:26:07 install lsof and see if it's holding port 80? Jul 29 00:26:34 damn Jul 29 00:26:36 no links Jul 29 00:26:41 that is Jul 29 00:26:42 the most Jul 29 00:26:44 obvious thing Jul 29 00:26:48 i've ever not thought of Jul 29 00:26:50 * jjcklp hugs epv Jul 29 00:26:57 jjcklp oh got infinity i will always feel stupid Jul 29 00:27:01 *oh god Jul 29 00:27:14 man i was hoping optware would have a links pkg Jul 29 00:27:26 that would solve my browser functionality woes Jul 29 00:27:40 Epyon22, problem with mapping? Jul 29 00:27:52 or i should say, with the img-mapping bug? Jul 29 00:27:56 mapping? Jul 29 00:28:00 in terminal? Jul 29 00:28:04 OH. Jul 29 00:28:06 right. Jul 29 00:28:09 links Jul 29 00:28:09 links Jul 29 00:28:14 i'm with you now Jul 29 00:28:15 terminal browser Jul 29 00:28:16 i've used it lol Jul 29 00:28:16 lol Jul 29 00:28:19 :D Jul 29 00:28:22 ok someone made Terminal slow :) Jul 29 00:28:25 i was unsure of the spelling tho Jul 29 00:28:26 thought it would be nice to use Jul 29 00:28:30 epv, working fine for me :) Jul 29 00:28:36 they have a lynx too but it sucks Jul 29 00:28:37 Epyon22, build it from source :D Jul 29 00:28:45 ah, lynx might have been the one i used Jul 29 00:29:00 are you running a recent build from git, or the released one? Jul 29 00:29:04 lynx was the original one Jul 29 00:29:05 it's since some commit today Jul 29 00:29:15 links is good Jul 29 00:29:18 i think the one that added the new xpm font Jul 29 00:29:21 epv, I'm running the git clone from.. er... last night Jul 29 00:29:30 yeah it happened this morning Jul 29 00:29:35 my favorite is w3m Jul 29 00:29:35 i see Jul 29 00:29:39 it lets you page stuff too Jul 29 00:29:43 yeah Jul 29 00:29:52 i'll look at the commits Jul 29 00:30:13 is there a way to like.. symlink /opt/sbin to like.. /usr/bin, so i don't have to constantly type /opt/sbin to run opt-installed programs? or is that a REALLY bad idea? Jul 29 00:30:37 no not symlink Jul 29 00:30:39 umm Jul 29 00:30:44 add /opt/sbin to your path by editing /etc/profile Jul 29 00:30:54 yeah add it to that Jul 29 00:30:54 that's what i was looking for :) Jul 29 00:31:04 i did it when i was making my default terminal bash Jul 29 00:31:15 ah, good old bash. Jul 29 00:31:22 just edit your ~/.profile Jul 29 00:31:25 did what's his face leave? Jul 29 00:31:26 and add /opt/sbin to your path Jul 29 00:31:31 epv: do not edit /etc/profile Jul 29 00:31:37 use the /etc/profile.d/optware file Jul 29 00:31:37 export PATH=/opt/sbin:$PATH Jul 29 00:31:39 put it first Jul 29 00:31:46 yea terminal is SLOW Jul 29 00:31:51 /etc/profile.d/* rather Jul 29 00:31:52 destinal... no he's still here. Dest, is there anyway to make a pipe in the term app? Jul 29 00:31:53 the optware-bootstrap.sh script does this automatically Jul 29 00:32:09 there working on it Jul 29 00:32:11 jjcklp: have you run that script? Jul 29 00:32:17 that must be a recent change, rwhitby Jul 29 00:32:18 95% sure i have. Jul 29 00:32:28 epv: at least 4 days ago Jul 29 00:32:34 jjcklp: sym + . (period) Jul 29 00:32:36 hm, lemme see... Jul 29 00:32:38 oh i think i set it up by hand weeks ago actually Jul 29 00:32:46 and didn't do that, but I tossed something in /etc/profile.d anyway Jul 29 00:32:51 destinal, that makes a . :) Jul 29 00:32:57 eval program `echo -e \\\0174` grep blah Jul 29 00:33:02 jjcklp: what version are you running? Jul 29 00:33:02 that will put a pipe in it Jul 29 00:33:07 jwm: NO Jul 29 00:33:10 jwm: we have pipe Jul 29 00:33:13 you do? Jul 29 00:33:14 heh Jul 29 00:33:17 I haven't updated :) Jul 29 00:33:26 destinal, sym . totally doesn't work :/ Jul 29 00:33:26 people are saying it's slow heh Jul 29 00:33:33 pregame: slow Jul 29 00:33:35 jjcklp: update Jul 29 00:33:37 maybe the pipe broke it ;) Jul 29 00:33:37 ? it seems pretty speedy for me these days Jul 29 00:33:38 jjcklp: then reboot Jul 29 00:33:41 I can't update, it's broken ;) Jul 29 00:33:49 what's broken Jul 29 00:33:58 2 people were complaining it's crawling, just a minute ago Jul 29 00:34:14 maybe they got the first edition pres Jul 29 00:34:16 the current version is faster than the previous Jul 29 00:34:18 with the 80mhz processors Jul 29 00:34:29 destinal: it's very much not as of this morning Jul 29 00:34:45 epv: oh really? hmm.. Jul 29 00:34:46 output seems fine but there's a lag echoing keyboard input Jul 29 00:34:56 but I'm using it here Jul 29 00:34:57 just since the "code cleanup" commit maybe Jul 29 00:34:58 epv: this is 0.1.5? Jul 29 00:35:21 oh you're tracking git Jul 29 00:35:44 yeah just tell me when 0.1.5 is out Jul 29 00:35:45 i reverted to before zuchmir2's commit this morning and it got fast again Jul 29 00:35:45 epv: ah, maybe HEAD is broken Jul 29 00:35:50 yeah Jul 29 00:36:05 i dind't mean to complain, just thought i'd mention Jul 29 00:36:17 i haven't tried the new one with the refactored font code Jul 29 00:36:18 epv: no, that's useful feedback Jul 29 00:36:35 did we make it so I can choose white font again? Jul 29 00:36:36 :) Jul 29 00:36:50 green is so 1337 h4x0r tho :( Jul 29 00:36:58 epv: the end of that changeset has some unrelated code which extends event logging Jul 29 00:36:59 green is efficent Jul 29 00:37:00 i'd call it a good 300ms lag before characters get echoed Jul 29 00:37:09 its the ez'est on the eyes Jul 29 00:37:29 yeah i was just going to run LunaSysMgr from a terminal to see if its just dumping tons of logging after every keystroke :) Jul 29 00:37:41 um Jul 29 00:37:49 I've never used a green font in a terminal Jul 29 00:37:52 heh Jul 29 00:38:15 you can look up the ansi escape sequencees to change it Jul 29 00:38:19 i can't remember it offhand Jul 29 00:38:37 ps hi tris Jul 29 00:38:40 ok the lsof man file is HUGE :/ is there any simple way to get it to output what I'm looking for? like just whatever is associated with port 80? Jul 29 00:38:40 yeah, I was going to copy over my gentoo PS1 Jul 29 00:39:03 destinal: maybe we remtake out all the debug code? Jul 29 00:39:05 epv: terminal logs a lot but that hasn't slowed it down Jul 29 00:39:13 in general Jul 29 00:39:27 hehe every time i type a char it logs "Drawing time: 0.522034" Jul 29 00:39:33 so i was off a bit, it's really half a sec Jul 29 00:39:34 Zuchmir2: check out the font stuff you added that may have broken it Jul 29 00:40:05 it's fast in 1.5 (last night) and slow in the current HEAD Jul 29 00:40:08 Epyon22: u wont believe it Jul 29 00:40:09 destinal: font stuff is done at startup Jul 29 00:40:12 what Jul 29 00:40:14 oh its every time you draw a block of text i guess Jul 29 00:40:28 Epyon22: this guy with the ssh issue right? before i went home Jul 29 00:40:36 yeah? Jul 29 00:40:37 Epyon22: he sent me 10 bucks on paypal ;) lol Jul 29 00:40:42 hahaahahaha Jul 29 00:40:55 lol Jul 29 00:41:03 i was just kidding and he took it seriously Jul 29 00:41:04 :) Jul 29 00:41:04 lol Jul 29 00:41:07 green is the hardest color for a human to discriminate Jul 29 00:41:13 perhaps wrap all fprintf(stderr) with an ignore wrpper for production Jul 29 00:41:18 its got the best contrast Jul 29 00:41:21 ez'est to read Jul 29 00:41:28 thats awesome Jul 29 00:41:29 lsof -i @localhost:80 ??? would that work? Jul 29 00:41:32 Zuchmir2: the logging to stderr isn't causing it though Jul 29 00:41:39 en0x what you going to use your $10 for Jul 29 00:41:40 yeah it's any time it writes a chunk of text to the screen Jul 29 00:41:51 even if i echo stuff to the pty from another terminal Jul 29 00:41:55 nothing to do with key typing Jul 29 00:42:00 Epyon22: pack of cigarettes Jul 29 00:42:00 :) Jul 29 00:42:22 Zuchmir2: I'd look closely at any commits from today Jul 29 00:42:25 nice Jul 29 00:42:26 also doesn't matter what size chunk of text Jul 29 00:42:29 I would but I have to head home Jul 29 00:42:36 i was like email from paypal Jul 29 00:42:36 1 char or 50, takes about half a second Jul 29 00:42:40 and there is ike Jul 29 00:42:43 so im gonna complie links from source Jul 29 00:42:45 you have got your money Jul 29 00:42:46 r0tfl Jul 29 00:42:51 haha Jul 29 00:43:08 when i monitor the output for every keypress there's a bunch of lines of logging Jul 29 00:43:12 en0x were you here for the banana kid? Jul 29 00:43:14 Subject: You've got money! Jul 29 00:43:15 hahaha Jul 29 00:43:19 Epyon22: yap Jul 29 00:43:25 he is polish from chicago Jul 29 00:43:25 god he was soooo annoying Jul 29 00:43:25 :) Jul 29 00:43:29 Zuchmir2: and that's something you changed today? Jul 29 00:43:42 I'm getting pretty annoying myself ;) Jul 29 00:43:44 nope Jul 29 00:43:48 he was like well i have a itouch but i WANT a pre sooo bad Jul 29 00:43:51 it's today the regression happened Jul 29 00:43:58 don't look at logging for now Jul 29 00:44:00 so im going to sit her and ask stupid questions Jul 29 00:44:01 Epyon22: yes but I have contract with att Jul 29 00:44:04 actually, i added a few Jul 29 00:44:14 lol Jul 29 00:44:42 specificall keyup/down events are showing more than yesterday Jul 29 00:44:58 yay bleach is done downloading Jul 29 00:45:18 lsof -i @localhost:80 gives me no output, does that mean that I'm misunderstanding how lsof works, or is my apache server not bound to port 80? Jul 29 00:45:26 Epyon22: bleach, as in the anime? Jul 29 00:45:31 yeah Jul 29 00:45:34 is it possible to run an IRC client such as BitchX through Terminal on the Pre? Jul 29 00:45:39 new one came out recently Jul 29 00:45:45 WillJitsu, why not? Jul 29 00:45:46 Epyon22: what episode is it on now? Jul 29 00:45:53 yep did it earlier today Jul 29 00:45:58 jjcklp: is that the best solution for IRC from the Pre right now? Jul 29 00:45:59 gkatsev 230 Jul 29 00:46:01 Epyon22: ive stopped following the anime, i strictly read the manga Jul 29 00:46:08 I was MUDing before. pretty decent resolution. Jul 29 00:46:11 i read sick comic Jul 29 00:46:12 ;] Jul 29 00:46:14 WillJitsu: I recommend irssi Jul 29 00:46:15 gkatsev ah ok Jul 29 00:46:21 WillJitsu, i second irssi :) Jul 29 00:46:32 you have to install perl for it to be happy though apparently Jul 29 00:46:39 maybe just libperl Jul 29 00:46:40 lsof -i | grep :www should work Jul 29 00:46:43 is it difficult to get it installed and running? (my linux knowledge is kinda limited) Jul 29 00:46:46 isnt it written in perl? Jul 29 00:47:18 WillJitsu: ipkg-opt install perl; ipkg-opt install irssi Jul 29 00:47:29 ha. pretty simple Jul 29 00:47:36 destinal: damn, beat me to it, i was making sure that irssi was in optware Jul 29 00:47:49 gkatsev: :) Jul 29 00:47:50 oh well Jul 29 00:47:56 lol Jul 29 00:48:12 Epyon22: what arc is the anime on? or are they completely of the manga by now? Jul 29 00:48:23 arc? Jul 29 00:48:27 idk i dont read the manga Jul 29 00:48:45 Epyon22: well, whats happening in the anime? Jul 29 00:48:45 epv, i can't pipe with the version of terminal i have running :/ guess it's novacom time? Jul 29 00:49:05 yeah you'll need to log in some other way i guess Jul 29 00:49:37 gkatsev well they are kinda on a tangent but the ppl from hueco mundo just came to earth and theyve almost destroyed eachother Jul 29 00:49:56 i feel like the drawing slowness must be to do with the font stuff that was added Jul 29 00:50:13 Epyon22: have they come to earth before? Jul 29 00:50:35 gkatsev like a couple of times but not like this Jul 29 00:50:48 ok, i think i know where it is. Jul 29 00:50:54 gkatsev: once I've got it installed, what's the command to launch it? Jul 29 00:50:57 gkatsev the leader of the 13 protection squads is there Jul 29 00:51:06 lsof -i | grep :www only returns 1 process (google something or other, probably email sync). but ps -e shows httpd is running it's parent and child processes just fine... Jul 29 00:51:06 WillJitsu: irssi Jul 29 00:52:16 WillJitsu: you'd probably want to install the terminal app and then run it from there. Jul 29 00:52:28 WillJitsu: http://www.webos-internals.org/Application:Terminal Jul 29 00:52:32 yeah that's what I'm doing Jul 29 00:52:50 hola :) Jul 29 00:52:53 crap gcc is in the optware pkgs right? Jul 29 00:52:53 is there a way to restart apache like.. verbosely? I can't figure out why it's not binding to 80... Jul 29 00:53:10 well, if /opt/sbin is in your path, irssi should just be able to open it, otherwise, /opt/sbin/irssi or /path/to/irssi Jul 29 00:53:43 jjcklp: /etc/init.d/apache2 restart? initctl restart apache something along those lines Jul 29 00:54:05 jjcklp: apache2ctl restart Jul 29 00:54:40 er... it's installed in /opt/sbin i thought? there's no 'service' per se Jul 29 00:54:47 atleast nothing in /etc/init.d Jul 29 00:54:56 jjcklp: check /etc/services Jul 29 00:55:06 Anyone have the link on how to get a terminal app on the pre? Jul 29 00:56:04 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 29 00:56:07 cat /etc/services | grep -i apache .. returns nothing Jul 29 00:56:15 man the gcc pkg is a big one Jul 29 00:56:29 it's www not apache in /etc/services Jul 29 00:56:39 scsinutz, have you not been following the wiki? Jul 29 00:57:13 "www 80/tcp http # WorldWideWeb HTTP" <-- just that, nothing about httpd or apache Jul 29 00:58:35 epv: damn, forgot the wiki/ part, oh well Jul 29 01:00:41 epv, SHOULD there be a service? I wasn't under that impression. Jul 29 01:02:18 it's odd too. because apache would give me an error on start if it wasn't binding... Jul 29 01:02:25 where is the .conf file located again.. Jul 29 01:02:32 whats the current version of terminal app? Jul 29 01:02:42 0.1.5? Jul 29 01:03:13 yes Jul 29 01:03:17 i sure wish it didn't take 45 seconds to restart LunaSysMgr Jul 29 01:03:28 epv, recode it ;) Jul 29 01:03:35 lol Jul 29 01:03:50 epv: i don't see how the font stuff could be slowing it down. did you read the end of this: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/f0652bb1e693fa8e3b197db3939992ad42dfe667#termplugin/termplugin.cpp Jul 29 01:04:04 crap... Jul 29 01:04:07 i should recompile and try it ere i guess Jul 29 01:04:12 i ran out of room on opt Jul 29 01:04:14 Is it possible I need to issue iptables a command to allow 80 to a _certain interface_? Jul 29 01:04:21 epv: did you try rebooting? Jul 29 01:04:38 yeah tris, the change happened two commits back Jul 29 01:04:49 is there any way i can make opt larger? Jul 29 01:04:55 i haven't read through all the changes yet because i'm hungry and want to go eat dinner Jul 29 01:04:55 oh, the cleanup one? Jul 29 01:05:21 i think so, i just rebuilt with head at c57ac0d92c0e37e00e490e02831fe94130ee3d4c and it is not slow Jul 29 01:05:58 (there's a change to the mojo app too though, between that and current head) Jul 29 01:06:03 so my pops got a pre from ebay... tried to activate it and couldn't due to 'fraudulent ESN' Jul 29 01:06:09 eewww Jul 29 01:06:17 ewww stolen phones Jul 29 01:07:10 yeah, suck, rite? Jul 29 01:07:16 think sprint will activate it for him? Jul 29 01:07:19 or is he SOL Jul 29 01:07:36 if a phone's ESN has been reported stolen no carrier is going to activate it Jul 29 01:07:46 stolen/cloned/whatever Jul 29 01:08:00 any one try the opt loopback? Jul 29 01:08:01 if he bought it through paypal... they might cover that under like fraud or misrepresentation or something Jul 29 01:08:18 rwhitby: any reason you're using 2008q1 instead of 2009q1 for your build env? Jul 29 01:08:18 haha good luck with paypal Jul 29 01:08:33 yeah, bought thru payapel Jul 29 01:08:34 haha tris you're a trouble maker Jul 29 01:08:38 paypal* Jul 29 01:08:38 yeah somone might pay you 10$ en0x Jul 29 01:08:46 tris: to match the gcc, glibc, etc versions that Palm used in it's rootfs. Jul 29 01:09:17 tris: and also because we had that feed "on the shelf" from an optware point of view Jul 29 01:09:46 ah gotcha. you're cross-compiling, right? Jul 29 01:09:53 so none has tried the opt loopback? Jul 29 01:10:03 tris: yep, on a ubuntu 8.04 host build machine Jul 29 01:10:38 i noticed that my termplugin.so was 1/4 the size when i built it with 2009q1, but i haven't tried it with 2008q1 yet. not sure why Jul 29 01:10:42 i wonder if the seller he bought it from knows its fraudulent, or would be willing to replace it Jul 29 01:13:09 tris: yeah, I saw you mention that. if you find out, let me know. maybe I've got poor compile flag settings in the preware makefile Jul 29 01:15:01 the makefile in git doesn't strip it Jul 29 01:15:13 if you strip the debugging symbols its like 90k or something Jul 29 01:15:48 epv: ok, stripping will be it. I didn't bother with that in case we needed to debug. Jul 29 01:16:00 hahaha that 4x6 font is ridiculously tiny Jul 29 01:16:07 Grrr Jul 29 01:16:25 80 columns by 66 lines though :) Jul 29 01:16:25 My first time to disconnect from this channel since it was put up...something like 48 days. Jul 29 01:16:30 aw Jul 29 01:16:31 the N and + are weird, never noticed that about 4x6 before Jul 29 01:16:37 and it was because my roommate was 2 months behind on the comcast bill. Jul 29 01:17:01 So...1. I had to pay it...and 2, that makes me wonder where the heck my checks were going. Jul 29 01:17:21 eeew Jul 29 01:17:26 LarrySteeze: drugs can be very expensive Jul 29 01:17:35 mmm drugs Jul 29 01:17:55 rofl Jul 29 01:18:00 not if u steal em Jul 29 01:18:16 evening folks Jul 29 01:18:23 yo Jul 29 01:18:47 Have any of you tried to install an IRC client on Palm Pre console? Jul 29 01:18:58 yeah works great Jul 29 01:19:00 yea i use vi Jul 29 01:19:03 destinal has experience with bitchX Jul 29 01:19:15 i was using bitchx earlier today Jul 29 01:19:17 Epyon22 which client? Jul 29 01:19:22 *sigh* Jul 29 01:19:24 Oh ok Jul 29 01:19:25 oh, PreGame Jul 29 01:19:26 the Pre already has a chat client on it Jul 29 01:19:36 irc client? Jul 29 01:19:40 ? Jul 29 01:19:41 you can ignore my PM on the forums the other day Jul 29 01:19:45 yea... VI Jul 29 01:19:58 apparently there are like 5 projects developing what I wanted to do Jul 29 01:20:00 PreGame: Keep going Jul 29 01:20:00 just type in what you want to say Jul 29 01:20:07 you may not get a response though Jul 29 01:20:14 lol Jul 29 01:20:18 lol Jul 29 01:20:35 i'm using notepad to chat Jul 29 01:20:39 could someone help me figure out where to put a new page on the wiki? Jul 29 01:20:40 So how do I connect VI /connect server :P Jul 29 01:20:42 lol Jul 29 01:20:43 any of you guys tried opt on loopback Jul 29 01:20:44 yea Jul 29 01:20:44 lol Jul 29 01:21:01 vi irc.client Jul 29 01:21:07 press i Jul 29 01:21:09 hehehe @PreGame Jul 29 01:21:10 tris: text drawing is way faster with your version too Jul 29 01:21:19 then type vi /connect irc.freenode.irc Jul 29 01:21:26 dinner time Jul 29 01:21:28 then type /nick meow Jul 29 01:21:37 I ssh and run screen Jul 29 01:21:42 on my server Jul 29 01:21:49 im just wondering cause i might do it cause i ran out of room but i still will want to use my media/internal usb thing Jul 29 01:21:57 so I can use irssi Jul 29 01:22:01 ah Jul 29 01:22:35 LarrySteeze did you pm me? Jul 29 01:23:10 irssi or bitchx? Which one you guys preferred? PreGame like VI, lol. Jul 29 01:23:16 ahh yea Jul 29 01:23:19 PreGame: yes Jul 29 01:23:27 evp: what are you getting for Drawing time: on last nights build of term? Jul 29 01:23:42 yea i been working with dieter to help create the app list Jul 29 01:23:45 I basically wanted to develop an entire app catalog, but with a very specific purpose...to connect developers to beta testers. Jul 29 01:24:19 which, under the sdk guidelines, would be a valid form of distribution Jul 29 01:24:35 that sould be cool Jul 29 01:24:42 everyone says that but 4.2 is for application signing Jul 29 01:24:52 you don't have to sign the apps for TESTING purposes Jul 29 01:25:17 yeah, i realize everyone says that Jul 29 01:25:18 but Jul 29 01:25:19 ah, speaking of... is posting it on the precentral.net forums for testing acceptable? Jul 29 01:25:28 yes Jul 29 01:25:30 i'd like to actually attract commercial developers Jul 29 01:25:30 Zuchmir: about 110 ms i think Jul 29 01:25:37 to the program Jul 29 01:25:41 PreGame: thx, vi irc client is nice Jul 29 01:25:46 lightweight Jul 29 01:25:54 as opposed to ~500ms now Jul 29 01:25:56 and its free Jul 29 01:26:00 yes Jul 29 01:26:16 notepad is free too :D Jul 29 01:26:17 brb Jul 29 01:26:26 epv: can u look @ output so that can get a nahdle on what the diff is,a dn track it down Jul 29 01:26:34 if you want to make a app catalog for beta testing thats cool Jul 29 01:26:47 the hard thing is, who do you give it to? Jul 29 01:26:53 lol Jul 29 01:27:02 ooh, that last commit looks like an emulation fix i need Jul 29 01:27:03 put it in the forums for testing Jul 29 01:27:38 what do you mean who do you give it to? do you mean who are the beta testers? Jul 29 01:27:47 am I retarded or does the Pre not have an RSS reader? Jul 29 01:27:59 SDK has one. Jul 29 01:28:13 todays additions: allow alternate font (which should *not* have affected speed) ... and handling of "scroll-area" for irc etc. Jul 29 01:28:16 I have to wonder whythey don't put the SDK rss reader in the app catalog Jul 29 01:29:09 so the scroll area works now? Jul 29 01:29:12 zuchmir: what about the end of that commit http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/f0652bb1e693fa8e3b197db3939992ad42dfe667 ... you're printing out more stuff in npPalmKeyDownEvents etc Jul 29 01:29:17 could that be it? Jul 29 01:29:25 it doesn't seem like that should slow it down any Jul 29 01:30:45 tris: i just remmed it out, and i'm getting same time results Jul 29 01:38:54 I have a dumb question Jul 29 01:39:11 I have a dumb answer Jul 29 01:39:12 is it possible to take an ipk file and "unpackage" it right on my computer? Jul 29 01:39:17 Yes Jul 29 01:39:23 how? Jul 29 01:39:28 dpkg i believe in debian/ubuntu Jul 29 01:39:39 how about windows? Jul 29 01:39:55 7zip might be able to rip it apart Jul 29 01:40:07 i have 7zip...let me try it Jul 29 01:40:34 what do you mean windows? like the X Windowing System? Jul 29 01:41:17 no, i mean I"m not running linux. Jul 29 01:41:29 leave this room this instant! Jul 29 01:41:31 not running linux! Jul 29 01:41:32 lol Jul 29 01:41:35 heh Jul 29 01:41:40 lol Jul 29 01:41:45 i have an ubuntu system...but most of the time it isn't even turned on Jul 29 01:42:28 thats a tragedy Jul 29 01:42:28 yep, 7zip works fine Jul 29 01:43:11 will note that Jul 29 01:43:28 Also, what do you mean you aren't running linux? Like you use FreeBSD? Jul 29 01:43:35 Wait, you're not a mac user are you? Jul 29 01:43:43 *blink* Jul 29 01:43:56 i said windows, man... Jul 29 01:43:57 lol Jul 29 01:44:07 windows? is an operating system? Jul 29 01:44:09 never heard of it. Jul 29 01:44:18 operating system? Jul 29 01:44:23 hah Jul 29 01:44:24 no Jul 29 01:44:31 its not an operating system Jul 29 01:44:37 i mean...i can open it Jul 29 01:44:47 and throw your computer out of it...from the 14th floor Jul 29 01:45:27 Odd. Jul 29 01:45:30 it's just Jul 29 01:45:32 zuchmir: yeah, i'm getting some dinner, i'll get back to looking at the slow draw thing when i get back Jul 29 01:45:33 Well i suppose as long as it supports 7zip you're good. Jul 29 01:45:37 there's the devmode launcher Jul 29 01:46:02 and I figure as long as it already exists, why create a whole new program, and just update his to include the other hidden files Jul 29 01:46:13 like usbnet Jul 29 01:46:36 No idea what you're talking about. Jul 29 01:46:48 i'll link you Jul 29 01:46:56 give me just a min Jul 29 01:48:34 Just got my apache server up and running. 2 things to note. 1, apparently sprint blocks port 80 listening, and 2 MY PRE IS A WEBSERVER Jul 29 01:49:37 hehe Jul 29 01:49:44 how did you get around port 80? Jul 29 01:49:50 hamachi? :) Jul 29 01:50:07 zuchmir2/rwhitby: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels is actually where i got the cross-compilation instrux/env vars from... although it didn't work that well, ended up having to do some stuff by hand Jul 29 01:50:13 I would of put nginx on the pre Jul 29 01:50:16 definitely not apache Jul 29 01:50:17 heh Jul 29 01:50:40 tris: we use the optware toolchain Jul 29 01:50:52 i'm not sure what's up with that honestly, ${PRETOOL_DIR}/arm/... is referenced all over the place but there's no such dir ... ${PRETOOL_DIR}/usr/local/... too Jul 29 01:50:56 Could just move it to port 81. Jul 29 01:50:56 tris: remember the wiki is the result of many people doing many different things with little coordination Jul 29 01:51:15 tris: if it's not in code in a git repo, don't trust it. Jul 29 01:51:17 yeah... i'm trying to figure out how to set up 2009q1 and 2008q1 in parallel so i can figure out if there's a speed diff Jul 29 01:51:35 define "get around port 80"? Jul 29 01:51:38 i used 2009q1 to compile termplugin and it works fine Jul 29 01:51:44 I'm going to put mysql on my pre Jul 29 01:51:46 tris: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Optware_Cross_Compilation Jul 29 01:51:48 just so I can Jul 29 01:51:52 aha, thanks Jul 29 01:52:08 comcastbusiness? Jul 29 01:52:20 He's at work, clearly. Jul 29 01:52:25 tris: I know nothing about anything else on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Cross_Compiling Jul 29 01:52:25 is that the new docsis 3? Jul 29 01:52:29 Also that username is terribly FreeNode unfriendly. Jul 29 01:52:40 muchtall? Jul 29 01:52:47 i'm following the instrux in http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Cross_Compiling currently (waiting for "port upgrade outdated" right now) Jul 29 01:52:49 docsis3 is like 23489237498234mbps right? Jul 29 01:52:51 I find muchtall offensive because I am only 6' Jul 29 01:52:54 rwhitby: gotcha Jul 29 01:53:02 jjcklp: well, rounded to 50mbps yes Jul 29 01:53:18 jwm, that's fast. Jul 29 01:53:24 I get 23 right now Jul 29 01:53:27 it's fast for the USA Jul 29 01:53:32 it's ok for the rest of the world hehe Jul 29 01:53:39 I think uganda has faster speeds than the usa Jul 29 01:53:59 2.2mbps here. Jul 29 01:54:09 almost faster to tether through my pre lol Jul 29 01:54:11 There are isolated pigmy tribes that have faster internet. Jul 29 01:54:12 mbps or MBps? Jul 29 01:54:16 mbps :( Jul 29 01:54:19 lol Jul 29 01:54:22 poor soul Jul 29 01:54:58 honestly, i just MUD when I'm sad about my bandwidth. 2.2mpbs is like a full overflowing measure to a telnet server game :) Jul 29 01:55:03 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/194467-hidden-apps-1-1-a.html Jul 29 01:55:12 sorry, took me a min to find the post Jul 29 01:55:25 your pre almost gets faster than your home connection Jul 29 01:55:33 an iphone 3gs would get 3 times Jul 29 01:55:34 hehe Jul 29 01:55:44 Haven't mudded in 17 years. Jul 29 01:55:51 granted, it's possible to unhide the apps Jul 29 01:56:16 but for those that do not want to root their pre, an app that calls up all hidden apps works just as well Jul 29 01:56:21 LarrySteeze, Nifty. Jul 29 01:56:28 Lurking_Grue, where's the last place you played? :) Jul 29 01:56:50 LarrySteeze, those who don't want to root their pre are lazy and do not deserve hidden apps ;) Jul 29 01:57:14 Jjcklp: Last place I played was on Abermud V as it was being written. Jul 29 01:57:36 lol Jul 29 01:57:43 maybe Jul 29 01:57:45 wow the people who edited this http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Patches_to_webOS page after I mentioned it needing work and began a slight alteration did a great job the page looks sweet and much easier to figure out Jul 29 01:57:54 Lurking_Grue, you are part of the history of the internet, lol. Jul 29 01:58:13 StoneRyno: hopspitfire is pretty good with the wiki Jul 29 01:58:23 StoneRyno, holy crap you're right, it's tres nice Jul 29 01:58:31 i'm almost tempted to hide a bunch of my lesser used apps, and creating one app to call them up :P Jul 29 01:58:43 if you see then pass the word along that they did an excellent job Jul 29 01:59:03 but anyways...bed time for me Jul 29 01:59:08 enjoy the night everyone Jul 29 01:59:12 LarrySteeze: nite Jul 29 01:59:40 Jjcklp: Took me years to realize it was the same Alan Cox. I didn't talk to him but a friend would test puzzles with him. mostly have things dropped on him. At the time I had an shell account on project gnu. Jul 29 01:59:46 yea i need to hit the sack too i just jumped in right quick to pass the complements along in hopes the contributers were here Jul 29 02:00:11 Lurking_Grue, pretty cool stuff :) Jul 29 02:00:35 looking forward to trying my hand at moding stuff myself will probably spend some vaction time at the summer home messing around Jul 29 02:00:51 oo summer home fancy Jul 29 02:01:02 * Lurking_Grue is old. Jul 29 02:01:26 have a good night all will drop in again in the near future Jul 29 02:08:11 Lurking_Grue wannt check which one of us is older? Jul 29 02:10:06 Has anyone played with processingjs? (processingjs.org) Jul 29 02:10:12 Is it possible to use on the Pre? Jul 29 02:10:49 A lot of the examples work within the Pre's browser, so I assume there must be some way to port them over Jul 29 02:10:58 yeah looks cool Jul 29 02:11:13 seems like its suposed to work on as many broswers as it can Jul 29 02:11:31 Would make 2D game development a breeze Jul 29 02:11:50 sam1am I would work fine. Jul 29 02:12:21 it means using canvas calls rather than mojo. But you could wrap mojo scenes for setup &c. around a canvas scene with your app. Jul 29 02:12:59 seems slow Jul 29 02:13:59 twitch game is neat tho Jul 29 02:14:31 canvas is slow in many ways compared to html entity sprites. Jul 29 02:14:33 just compiled term with -O2 its 0.05! Jul 29 02:14:40 but it does give you pixel by pixel control. Jul 29 02:15:01 So I'm trying to set up an app but can't get it working. Basically I'm using the example on the front page - I've dumped the javascript into my scene helper, but obviously it's not going to work Jul 29 02:15:09 I need to know how to make it call back to the canvas id Jul 29 02:15:33 The tower defense game is awesome too Jul 29 02:15:47 almost works in the pre browser Jul 29 02:17:01 Maybe I should start with basic canvas stuff .. I'm pretty new to all this Jul 29 02:17:24 zuchmir: 0.05? what was it before? Jul 29 02:17:34 0.5 Jul 29 02:17:38 wow Jul 29 02:17:45 Oh and this seems like the place to ask - anyone working on an irc client? Maybe a port of jisirc or mibbit? Jul 29 02:17:53 so the -O2 optimised it Jul 29 02:18:06 to give better speed Jul 29 02:18:11 vi irc works fine in terminal now Jul 29 02:20:08 sam1am: have you tried mibbit on the pre? it may just work... Jul 29 02:20:30 mibbit works, but freenode is a nono Jul 29 02:20:31 tris: I haven't tried it, I was thinking about doing a native port or something Jul 29 02:20:53 it's possible to freenode from mibbit. Jul 29 02:20:57 ah, that would be cool Jul 29 02:21:15 Rick__: since when? Jul 29 02:22:07 I like the 3d javascript rendere Jul 29 02:22:10 renderer Jul 29 02:22:15 anyone ever seen that? Jul 29 02:25:08 ok, nevermind, you can't any more, you're right. It's been over 30 days since I did that Jul 29 02:25:24 webchat.freenode.net does work on the pre Jul 29 02:25:31 and the client would be portable to an app. Jul 29 02:26:16 i think just irssi+terminal will work, though, yeah, i guess a stand alone would be nice. Jul 29 02:26:30 though, i want to be able to ssh out of the terminal Jul 29 02:26:41 i can ssh, but it isnt reading/sending my password correctly Jul 29 02:26:49 and thus i cant login Jul 29 02:26:56 Is there a pretty terminal application installable as an .ipk yet? Jul 29 02:27:19 sam1am: nope, only http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 29 02:28:10 two ipks, not one. Jul 29 02:28:21 plus a line of root command Jul 29 02:28:57 is there an alt/meta key for the terminal? Jul 29 02:29:49 i keep looking for < and > etc, alas Jul 29 02:30:22 gkatsev there is now. Jul 29 02:30:25 there wasn't before. Jul 29 02:30:27 new version? Jul 29 02:30:30 yay, got the 2008q1 toolchain working Jul 29 02:30:32 1.0.5 Jul 29 02:30:53 uses the gesture area as a modifier key as well as orange and symbol. Jul 29 02:30:57 compiled w/o -O, 108K stripped... with -O2 76K Jul 29 02:31:00 Rick__: the wiki doesnt say it Jul 29 02:31:10 Rick__: so... 3 "buttons"? Jul 29 02:31:17 gk nodnod Jul 29 02:31:28 i guess better than nothing at all Jul 29 02:31:31 your hand will cramp Jul 29 02:31:34 good luck running emacs on here. :D Jul 29 02:31:38 what's the alternative.... Jul 29 02:31:45 alt-shift-meta-cokebottle. Jul 29 02:32:10 anything I can't edit with nano I don't need to edit. :-) Jul 29 02:32:24 i use vim. Jul 29 02:32:50 then, golly, you should get vimIRC :-) Jul 29 02:32:55 Rick__: you mean, version 0.1.5? Jul 29 02:33:00 yes Jul 29 02:33:11 ok, shall i edit the wiki? Jul 29 02:35:19 check with Zuchmir2 before you do that my understanding matches the code. Jul 29 02:35:41 Zuchmir2 -- can you review the gesture-area-keymaps for us pretty please? Jul 29 02:35:59 or mrvc if you're around? Jul 29 02:38:23 tris: fwiw, just pushed a newer version, where much of the logging doesn't happen Jul 29 02:38:53 and in the Makefile added the -O2 Jul 29 02:40:05 rick: whay do u want to know about it (mrvc would know more than myself, he did the keys) Jul 29 02:40:44 Zuchmir2: the wiki does not reflect addition of an alt/meta key, was going to add it, but rick suggested checking in with one of you before doing so Jul 29 02:43:09 what's the _proper_ procedure for installing .ipk's from novacom? Jul 29 02:43:14 hey Jul 29 02:44:15 gkatsev: not sure what you mean Jul 29 02:44:23 gkatsev: we added the gesture-hold recently Jul 29 02:45:09 gkatsev: I guess that you could think of that as alt, but it doesn't really correspond to any standard key Jul 29 02:45:11 mrvc: well, rick said that the alt/meta button is gesture-hold+orange+sym, was going to add that to the wiki but was checking in with you first to make sure that is right Jul 29 02:46:45 ah nm, found it Jul 29 02:47:07 so far i added the gesture area, except 190, mrvc: what's 190? Jul 29 02:47:37 Zuchmir: it is the period Jul 29 02:47:51 Zuchmir: I was trying to relate it to the numeric keypad Jul 29 02:48:13 Zuchmir: so, gesture-9 is page-up, etc. Jul 29 02:48:15 gkatsev that isn't what I ment. Jul 29 02:48:23 ok, sometimes that comes through as '.' Jul 29 02:48:24 Zuchmir: gesture-0 is insert, gesture-period is delete Jul 29 02:48:36 I ment that gesture is a modifier key as well as orange and sym not that all 3 together are meta. Jul 29 02:48:44 just been modifying: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Jul 29 02:48:48 although I guess they could be, but your hand really WOULD cramp Jul 29 02:48:55 heh Jul 29 02:49:00 Rick_: yeah, that would be real convenient Jul 29 02:49:20 hmmmmm Jul 29 02:49:48 you COULD do gesture+orange with one hand, laying the finger along gesture, and holding orange with your thumb while pressing something else. Jul 29 02:50:02 I suppose that COULD be meta/alt, but it isn't -now-.... Jul 29 02:50:34 Rick__: I think we can live without it! :) Jul 29 02:50:45 at some point it will be easier to have a special characters popup than a million modifiers :) Jul 29 02:51:22 curly braces and square brackets have been something I've been wondering how to represent Jul 29 02:51:55 zuchmir2: cool Jul 29 02:52:28 Zuchmir2: the 4x6 font is cool Jul 29 02:52:36 gesture+orange+ parenthesis. and shifted-gesture+orange+parenthesis :-) (running away now) Jul 29 02:52:38 Zuchmir2: not really readable, but cool Jul 29 02:52:42 hahaha Jul 29 02:52:58 oh is the tiny font in there now too? Jul 29 02:53:47 mrvc: that was courtisy of tris, he thought it was... Jul 29 02:54:06 epv: there's no option to enable it yet Jul 29 02:54:11 it's readable, if you're really nearsighted Jul 29 02:54:15 Thanks tris! Jul 29 02:54:18 ... it was also proof of concept, we can have multiple fonts now, and the prefs can choose Jul 29 02:54:24 quite welcome, thanks mrvc :) Jul 29 02:54:26 Rick__: ah, ok, lol Jul 29 02:54:37 I had been considering doing anti-aliased fonts Jul 29 02:54:48 It might make smaller fonts more readable, but I don'tkn ow Jul 29 02:54:51 tris: yes there is, if u change in the JS the fontHeight/fontWidth... Jul 29 02:55:13 yeah i just meant no UI to change it Jul 29 02:55:46 is adding copy/paste easy? would be useful Jul 29 02:55:49 in theory 7x8 or 6x8 shouldn't be that bad Jul 29 02:56:09 Zuchmir2: I would really like to move all pixel stuff out of the charbuffer into a new class, maybe a ScreenRenderer class. Jul 29 02:56:45 Zuchmir2: I know it doesn't make too much practical difference, but the overlap in functionality is bugging me Jul 29 02:57:21 Zuchmir2: I don't think the charbuffer should know anything about fonts or pixels Jul 29 02:59:13 Zuchmir2: what do you think? Jul 29 02:59:48 neat **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 29 02:59:57 2009