**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 29 02:59:57 2009
Jul 29 03:00:01 <raeb-pre> bitchx in terminal on pre
Jul 29 03:00:50 <raeb> test
Jul 29 03:01:58 <jjcklp> Yes, very.
Jul 29 03:02:03 <tris> hmm this is printing "Drawing time" to stderr?  where does that go?
Jul 29 03:02:06 <jjcklp> Also telnet is neat, and ssh, and running a webserver.
Jul 29 03:02:13 <jjcklp> Hell, being able to ssh into my pre blows my mind.
Jul 29 03:02:14 <gkatsev> how can i change password for the user?
Jul 29 03:02:23 <jjcklp> passwd
Jul 29 03:02:23 <jjcklp> ?
Jul 29 03:02:35 <gkatsev> passwd says "must be suid to work properly"
Jul 29 03:02:42 <jjcklp> sudo passwd ?
Jul 29 03:02:47 <gkatsev> sudo passwd will change root password
Jul 29 03:02:51 <epv> tris: "stop LunaSysMgr" , then run "LunaSysMgr" from a terminal
Jul 29 03:03:08 <epv> then you will get the stderr/stdout from it, which you don't when its running under upstart
Jul 29 03:03:22 <raeb> initctl stop LunaSysMgr
Jul 29 03:03:26 <jjcklp> sudo passwd username
Jul 29 03:03:27 <jjcklp> ?
Jul 29 03:03:32 <epv> you can run it again as a service with "start LunaSysMgr"
Jul 29 03:03:35 <tris> I just edited /etc/passwd and made my password empty (::) and uncommented "PermitEmptyPasswords no" in sshd_config
Jul 29 03:03:38 <epv> raeb: start/stop work too
Jul 29 03:03:46 <raeb> nice, goot to know
Jul 29 03:03:50 <gkatsev> jjcklp: that works
Jul 29 03:03:53 <tris> not the greatest solution, but it will work until there's a way to open the terminal without logging in
Jul 29 03:04:06 <tris> (i use ssh keys to ssh to the pre itself)
Jul 29 03:04:25 <jjcklp> gkatsev, do you run linux natively or only on your pre?
Jul 29 03:04:41 <gkatsev> jjcklp: natively, just havent had much use for passwd
Jul 29 03:04:50 <jjcklp> gkatsev, man passwd :)
Jul 29 03:04:59 <jjcklp> that's where i got the answer ;)
Jul 29 03:05:12 <gkatsev> lol
Jul 29 03:05:34 <epv> i think it's pretty cool that novacom and usbnet can coexist
Jul 29 03:05:42 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: lemme look, i thought charbuf had to know widths and height...
Jul 29 03:05:46 <epv> ie, both work simultaneously
Jul 29 03:05:55 <gkatsev> where can i put my ssh key on the pre so that i can ssh out of it?
Jul 29 03:06:11 <epv> your homedir/.ssh/id_rsa maybe?
Jul 29 03:06:17 <gkatsev> ~/.ssh for use, /var/home/user/.ssh doesnt do anything
Jul 29 03:07:07 <epv> woo ssh-keygen takes a LONG time on the pre
Jul 29 03:07:13 <gkatsev> lol
Jul 29 03:07:39 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: The original idea was that the charbuf knew about the screen as a set of characters and the pixelbuf knew about the screen as a set of pixels
Jul 29 03:07:39 <raeb> yeah ~/.ssh/*.pub for your keys, ~/.ssh/authorized_keys for remote clients, ~/.ssh/known_hosts for remote hosts
Jul 29 03:07:59 <tris> or often ~/.ssh/authorized_keys2
Jul 29 03:08:08 <epv> ~/.ssh works, yes
Jul 29 03:08:22 <gkatsev> doesnt work for me...
Jul 29 03:08:26 <epv> huh
Jul 29 03:08:31 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: and then the drawing function transferred from characters to pixels
Jul 29 03:08:36 <raeb> on the pre, ssh localhost
Jul 29 03:08:37 <epv> are you trying to do it as root or did you make another user?
Jul 29 03:08:41 <raeb> it will create the .ssh folders for u
Jul 29 03:08:51 <tris> the default of ~/.ssh/id_dsa{,pub} is good, anything else and you'd have to use -i or run ssh-agent and load it in manually
Jul 29 03:08:58 <Zuchmir2> i'm ok with seperating that
Jul 29 03:09:03 <tris> er ~/.ssh/id_dsa{,.pub}
Jul 29 03:09:16 <raeb> rsa ?
Jul 29 03:09:23 <jjcklp> anyone play around with the podcasting proggy?
Jul 29 03:09:34 <tris> oh right, i used -t dsa
Jul 29 03:09:38 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: ok, I'll make a class
Jul 29 03:09:44 <raeb> fancy
Jul 29 03:10:06 <tharris-> evening
Jul 29 03:10:46 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I may just call it screen
Jul 29 03:10:59 <Zuchmir2> ::resize i think was the one that needed to know about font
Jul 29 03:11:16 <JamesBaud> ok, ive been using the install method or dragging ipk's to palm-install.bat, did alot with no problems, now when I try, no luck, was it cuz of the 1.0.4 update?
Jul 29 03:11:19 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yeah, I think it would be screen.resize()
Jul 29 03:11:29 <gkatsev> hm... yeah, its still asking me for the password
Jul 29 03:11:42 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: and it would calculate the new size in characters and update the charbuffer
Jul 29 03:12:16 <Zuchmir2> ... then screen.resize has to call CharBuffer::resize() to update the buffer size
Jul 29 03:12:41 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yep, but it would be passing the number of chars instead of the number of pixels
Jul 29 03:12:53 <Zuchmir2> ok, sounds good to me
Jul 29 03:13:00 <mrvc> ok
Jul 29 03:13:03 <tris> epv: yours only takes 45 seconds to start?  mine takes 62
Jul 29 03:13:16 <Zuchmir2> ... so you want the screen to have the font then
Jul 29 03:13:34 <jjcklp> Do you think it's feasable to stream music over a phone call?
Jul 29 03:13:46 <epv> tris: yeah, 41 to 45, depending on how long the cell modem takes to get its shit together mostly, i think
Jul 29 03:13:55 <jjcklp> Like start a song, call someone, ???, profit?
Jul 29 03:14:00 <epv> haha
Jul 29 03:14:56 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yep, screen would have the font
Jul 29 03:15:36 <jjcklp> What about if you remove the bit that mutes your music while you're connected on a phone call?
Jul 29 03:15:37 <tris> jjcklp: hah, that'd be fun. especially if you could have it do it in the bg.  palm pre wardialer app? :)
Jul 29 03:15:41 <jjcklp> mic would prolly pick it up great
Jul 29 03:16:02 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: ok
Jul 29 03:16:05 <jjcklp> that's totally feasable, logistically i believe.
Jul 29 03:16:18 <epv> the mic works really well... if you run parec to record a sample, you can hear all sound in a room very nicely
Jul 29 03:16:31 <tris> i'm most interested in hooking into received SMSes somehow, so i can change the notification sound depending on content/sender
Jul 29 03:17:07 <jjcklp> tris, or have your phone read it to you ;) also a simple patch i would think given debian's native ability to read text aloud
Jul 29 03:17:37 <epv> oh yeah building festival should be easy and amusing
Jul 29 03:17:42 <tris> yeah the real trick is getting the sms event
Jul 29 03:17:44 <jjcklp> epv, you think an app that lets you turn on/off the ability to stop your phone from muting when you make/get a phonecall is feasible?
Jul 29 03:17:49 <tris> i fear that is deep inside the black box
Jul 29 03:18:03 <jjcklp> tris, we have to get to it eventually :D time to dive in the rabbit hole lol
Jul 29 03:18:07 <gkatsev> yeah, for some reason even with id_rsa in ~/.ssh for the user, its still asking me for th password
Jul 29 03:18:15 <jjcklp> Just gotta figure out how the event manager works, is all..
Jul 29 03:19:02 <tris> so my drawing time appears to be 0.10 consistently now.  i should try zuchmir's cflags now
Jul 29 03:19:17 <jjcklp> 100ms is good right?
Jul 29 03:19:32 <tris> yeah, he said he got 0.05 though
Jul 29 03:19:44 <jjcklp> maybe his hardware is better than yours ;)
Jul 29 03:19:54 <epv> you can read SMS messages directly from the cell modem when it isn't in use, but it's always held open by ppp
Jul 29 03:20:03 <tris> perhaps :) i haven't done any cpu scaling stuff
Jul 29 03:20:15 <jjcklp> lol i was actually joking hehe
Jul 29 03:20:18 <tris> oh wow epv
Jul 29 03:20:48 <epv> and you don't want to have to drop your connection to interrogate the modem for SMSs
Jul 29 03:20:54 <gkatsev> grr... now ssh is saying "string too long"
Jul 29 03:20:55 <Zuchmir2> tris: i was getting from 0.4 to 1.7
Jul 29 03:21:19 <Zuchmir2> 0.04 to 0.07
Jul 29 03:21:32 <tris> zuchmir: did you try my flags yet?
Jul 29 03:21:37 <Zuchmir2> tris: just pushed your mods
Jul 29 03:22:26 <tris> epv: the modem actually stores already-received SMSes?
Jul 29 03:22:37 <jjcklp> creepy
Jul 29 03:23:15 <epv> actually i dunno, gsm ones do, cdma maybe not
Jul 29 03:23:46 <quotemstr_> So Verizon will offer the Pre.
Jul 29 03:24:02 <quotemstr_> Will Verizon allow weboOS to stay open?
Jul 29 03:24:51 <jjcklp> I think that is their problem.
Jul 29 03:24:53 <tris> hmmm.. "Libpcap on linux supports usbmon sniffing, which means you can use tcpdump to sniff a USB port and write this to a capture file. But best of all: wireshark, the all-singing all-dancing network analyzer that uses tcpdump capture files, has USB support as well."
Jul 29 03:24:54 <jjcklp> They _think_ they want the pre.
Jul 29 03:25:04 <jjcklp> They are going to cripple it. And everyone else will open it anyway :P
Jul 29 03:25:34 <jjcklp> tris, do it. now. i will test, support and guinea pig for you all day every day :)
Jul 29 03:25:35 <epv> they'll probably just make palm not enable devmode
Jul 29 03:25:51 <quotemstr_> Cell phone network companies shouldn't be allowed to sell phones.
Jul 29 03:26:04 <jjcklp> epv, You don't think the phone is hackable without dev mode?
Jul 29 03:26:14 * jjcklp coughs bufferoverflow coughs
Jul 29 03:26:25 <epv> oh i imagine it is, it just won't be handed to you like that :)
Jul 29 03:26:29 <jjcklp> ah lol
Jul 29 03:26:33 <quotemstr_> jjcklp: It *is* based on a fairly recent Linux kernel. It doesn't seem to have any obvious vulnerabilities.
Jul 29 03:26:38 <jjcklp> It would actually be fun to find another way...
Jul 29 03:26:40 <gkatsev> ive just generated a new keypair, but it still is asking me for the password
Jul 29 03:26:43 <jjcklp> quotemstr_, that is a very good point too
Jul 29 03:26:52 <epv> i'm amused by the precentral.net discussion about "rooting" or "jailbreaking" the pre
Jul 29 03:27:04 <jjcklp> That's hysterical, actually.
Jul 29 03:27:06 <epv> i mean, you ask it "please give me a root shell" and it does, what's to root?
Jul 29 03:27:18 <Rick__> we've been trying to teach them that for quite a while.
Jul 29 03:27:20 <quotemstr_> epv: It goes along with calling every lockup "bricking"
Jul 29 03:27:23 <epv> yay dumbassitude
Jul 29 03:27:33 <epv> oh, yes bricking, that too
Jul 29 03:27:35 <tris> gkatsev: you took the contents of id_dsa.pub and put it in authorized_keys2 on the other end?
Jul 29 03:27:41 <gkatsev> tris: yep
Jul 29 03:27:41 <tris> without line breaks?
Jul 29 03:27:44 <Rick__> jjcklp security testers have documented at least 7 ways in without turning on devmode.
Jul 29 03:27:44 <jjcklp> Actually, you put in a old konami code and it asks you to ask it for a root shell ;)
Jul 29 03:27:49 <epv> bricking is when you need a soldering iron and 30ga wire to fix it
Jul 29 03:28:01 <jjcklp> JTAG ftw ;)
Jul 29 03:28:05 <tris> ssh -v should tell you the stages it's going through... whether it's reading a key and offering it up to the server, etc
Jul 29 03:28:10 <gkatsev> tris: ive done this before, and everything *should* work
Jul 29 03:28:39 <gkatsev> ssh on the pre doesnt have -v...
Jul 29 03:28:52 <quotemstr_> Is it possible to easily turn off password masking in the browser? I'm not really worried about shoulder surfing.
Jul 29 03:28:55 <epv> i installed openssh, and it does
Jul 29 03:29:06 <gkatsev> i am using dropbear, btw
Jul 29 03:29:10 <epv> ohh
Jul 29 03:29:12 <tris> ah yes, you probably need openssh for all this then
Jul 29 03:29:16 <jjcklp> Would be a pretty simple patch I'd imagine quotemstr_
Jul 29 03:29:23 <epv> btw UGH i HATE autocapitalization
Jul 29 03:29:25 <gkatsev> does dropbear not like this? or what?
Jul 29 03:29:26 <tris> dropbear sshd doesn't support keys, i'd imagine the client doesn't either
Jul 29 03:29:32 <gkatsev> ah, ok
Jul 29 03:29:33 <quotemstr_> jjcklp: Depends where it is. If it's in the compiled part of webkit, maybe not.
Jul 29 03:29:34 <Rick__> jjcklp  consider hacked and re-packaged webOS doctor jars with ssh pre-enabled....
Jul 29 03:29:39 <gkatsev> i guess ill install openssh
Jul 29 03:29:50 <tris> epv: like for outbound SMSes?  i got used to it after realizing i could backspace to undo autocapitalization
Jul 29 03:29:54 <jjcklp> I see.
Jul 29 03:30:08 <epv> Rick__ the other part of it though is they may ship phones with a bootloader that will only accept signed images
Jul 29 03:30:13 <jjcklp> So... you guys ready for the pre bot net?
Jul 29 03:30:28 <Rick__> epv - the omap bootloader is available below bootie.
Jul 29 03:30:36 <tris> oh yeah, I haven't installed eggdrop on my pre yet.  ircd yes...
Jul 29 03:30:37 <jjcklp> epv, don't give them any good ideas, verizon isn't smart enought for that
Jul 29 03:30:58 <epv> haha. yeah jjcklp, just as soon as a few more people install precentral apps that use generic shell command services
Jul 29 03:31:00 <Zuchmir2> tris: not sure if your mods made it faster
Jul 29 03:31:15 <epv> i am pretty sure the omap bootloader can be disabled
Jul 29 03:31:19 <tris> zuchmir2: still 0.04-0.07 or?
Jul 29 03:31:20 <jjcklp> Seriously, how many people do you think enable devmode and just leave it on perm? I mean.. it's not _that_ big of a deal...
Jul 29 03:31:35 <epv> i've never turned off devmode on mine
Jul 29 03:31:47 <jjcklp> I haven't either. I'm just thinking of why it's a problem.
Jul 29 03:32:02 <Zuchmir2> i'm getting either way approx 0.06 - 0.07
Jul 29 03:32:02 <jjcklp> I mean I use ddns... that could make it worse somehow
Jul 29 03:32:03 <quotemstr_> It allows passwordless root logins, doesn't it?
Jul 29 03:32:07 <epv> unless someone clueful gets their hands on your phone
Jul 29 03:32:09 <Rick__> jjcklp your usb port is reasonably secure.   doesn't seem like a problem to me
Jul 29 03:32:16 <epv> quotemstr_: it didn't for me
Jul 29 03:32:18 <gkatsev> and so, to remove dropbear its just ipkg-opt remove dropbear   anything else that needs to be done?
Jul 29 03:32:26 <tris> zuchmir: hrm, oh well.  wish i knew why yours was faster.  2008q1 or 2009q1?
Jul 29 03:32:40 <Zuchmir2> maybe
Jul 29 03:32:41 <gkatsev> i guess rm /etc/event.d/optware-dropbear as well
Jul 29 03:32:45 <jjcklp> Well techincally _anyones_ phone is rootable. We need to make a patch to turn off dev mode without root password on our own phones ;)
Jul 29 03:32:49 <Rick__> quotemstr_  it allows root logins VIA NOVACOM -- devmode only effects the USB CABLE.
Jul 29 03:32:51 <Zuchmir2> r u testing in plain text or in irc?
Jul 29 03:33:05 <Zuchmir2> in irc i'm seeing 0.25
Jul 29 03:33:15 <tris> gkatsev: should take care of everything, maybe check that it stopped the daemon also
Jul 29 03:33:22 <gkatsev> tris: ok, cool
Jul 29 03:33:40 <jjcklp> So Sprint blocks port 80... I wonder what feasible ways there are around that.
Jul 29 03:33:43 <tris> zuchmir2: just shell
Jul 29 03:33:49 <tris> actually, irc too
Jul 29 03:34:00 <tris> seemed to be about the same
Jul 29 03:34:00 <epv> haha they block port 80?
Jul 29 03:34:07 <gkatsev> lol, i probably shouldve installed openssh first... i kicked myself off when i uninstalled dropbear
Jul 29 03:34:07 <tris> also, TERM=vt100, not linux
Jul 29 03:34:13 <gkatsev> oops
Jul 29 03:34:29 <jjcklp> yeah, my webserver has to be on a diff port. it works fine but i can't get to it from other pres ;) (the pre web browser doesn't allow url.com:4333 syntax)
Jul 29 03:34:29 <Zuchmir2> maybe the 2009q1 is not as optimised????
Jul 29 03:35:07 <jjcklp> i wonder if 443 would work....
Jul 29 03:35:15 <tris> jjcklp: how many pres do you have over there? ;)
Jul 29 03:35:19 <jjcklp> or I can just put the port number after my ddns addy lol, no biggie.
Jul 29 03:35:28 <jjcklp> tris, how many you want? ;)
Jul 29 03:35:47 <jjcklp> I may, or may not, own a cell phone store, or be a big FOSS fan
Jul 29 03:35:59 <epv> heh, they do block port 80, bummer
Jul 29 03:36:14 <Zuchmir2> tris: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/35e5835cec855b3ef36b3e52f778cd90ec0697de is the optimization i ultimately used
Jul 29 03:36:26 <jjcklp> It's ok, the web access really is for my own use. I couldn't imagine wanting to run an actual public webserver from the thing
Jul 29 03:36:40 <jjcklp> although I wonder if there's a way around it. Maybe I can convince some sprint tech to type in a few commands ;)
Jul 29 03:36:41 <epv> sprint apparently couldn't either :)
Jul 29 03:37:02 <jjcklp> they just don't want to pay the bandwidth
Jul 29 03:37:11 <jjcklp> they have enough guys using 20gb a month from their smartphones already
Jul 29 03:37:12 <jjcklp> lol
Jul 29 03:37:14 <tris> looks like 443 is not blocked
Jul 29 03:37:20 <epv> they didn't always block it, i recall years ago being able to run a web server on my treo
Jul 29 03:37:23 <jjcklp> 443 only works with https right?
Jul 29 03:37:24 <rwhitby> tris: dropbear sshd does support keys
Jul 29 03:37:34 <rwhitby> client does too
Jul 29 03:37:38 <jjcklp> (Also, how did you test that so fast?)
Jul 29 03:38:01 <tris> jjcklp: you could put whatever you want on it, but if you want to get around the http://host:port/ not working, you'd have to make it ssl and use https://host/
Jul 29 03:38:08 <epv> just open it with iptables, use "nc" to listen on the port, and try telnetting in
Jul 29 03:38:31 <jjcklp> tris, one really isn't better than the other, :port is almost easier than https :P
Jul 29 03:38:32 <tris> rwhitby: oh, okay, cool
Jul 29 03:38:55 <jjcklp> tris, although i suppose the advantage, you could make a secure log in ;)
Jul 29 03:39:07 <gkatsev> sweet!
Jul 29 03:39:11 <gkatsev> openssh works
Jul 29 03:39:12 <jjcklp> epv, that's pretty smart, i gotta get myself into that sorta problem solving thought process ;)
Jul 29 03:39:19 <tris> jjcklp: oh, i thought you wanted to get to it from other pres
Jul 29 03:39:23 <jjcklp> gkatsev, congrats, sorry i was spamming during your troubleshooting :)
Jul 29 03:39:39 <rwhitby> tris: the only thing that dropbear doesn't support is the client side of authentication agent forwarding.  but no-one except me seems to use that - everyone else just seems to put their private keys on any random machine that they ssh from ...
Jul 29 03:39:46 <jjcklp> tris, oh, not primarily, i just thought it was a cool.. OH I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE. Because pre's suppose https :D:D :D: D:D D
Jul 29 03:39:46 <gkatsev> jjcklp: thats ok, ive been on irc long enough to be able to read only what i need
Jul 29 03:40:18 <epv> haha rwhitby
Jul 29 03:40:21 <epv> i hate that
Jul 29 03:40:25 <jjcklp> Honestly, I just realized I've typed have the lines for the last 50 lines up. Probably because I'm 2 glasses deep in a 21 year scotch. Time for bed I suppose.
Jul 29 03:40:35 <rwhitby> tris: so we use dropbear for server, and openssh for client.  openssh server takes twice the run-time ram footprint than dropbear, and there is no disadvantage to using dropbear server compared to openssh (the differences are only in the client)
Jul 29 03:40:50 <tris> rwhitby: hah, yeah.  I actually do use that
Jul 29 03:41:01 <jjcklp> Anyone hear about that supposed REALLY BIG OpenSSH exploit that's suppose to end the internet?
Jul 29 03:41:07 <rwhitby> tris: you want dropbear sshd and openssh ssh then.
Jul 29 03:41:26 <epv> does dropbear server do all the fancy port forwarding crap as well?
Jul 29 03:41:40 <rwhitby> tris: the optware-bootstrap.sh script sets things up that way automatically
Jul 29 03:41:45 <rwhitby> epv: yep
Jul 29 03:41:48 <epv> openssh's pseudo-socks-proxy thing is, while gross, occasionally useful
Jul 29 03:41:48 <gkatsev> sweet
Jul 29 03:41:50 <gkatsev> !
Jul 29 03:41:51 <tris> how about X11 forwarding?  not that I have an X11 environment, but...
Jul 29 03:42:07 <rwhitby> epv: the server side at least.  use openssh for the client side
Jul 29 03:42:17 <jjcklp> tris, if you can get X to run on a pre, you would officially be the winner
Jul 29 03:42:32 <rwhitby> X (clients) run the pre no problems
Jul 29 03:42:41 <rwhitby> xterm is in optware
Jul 29 03:43:01 <rwhitby> you need a remote X server of course
Jul 29 03:43:02 * jjcklp blinks
Jul 29 03:43:10 <tris> someone had the idea of running a vncserver on the pre and using PalmVNC in Classic to connect to it
Jul 29 03:43:21 <rwhitby> tris: should work
Jul 29 03:43:36 <tris> so far everything i've tried in classic (TuSSH and pssh) crashes, though
Jul 29 03:43:48 <jjcklp> The X11? Isn't there like a huge problem with getting it to work with the fb?
Jul 29 03:43:49 <rwhitby> tris: yeah, modulo classic bugs
Jul 29 03:44:03 <rwhitby> jjcklp: read what I said - remote X server
Jul 29 03:44:11 <epv> tris: pssh works for me, depending on the version
Jul 29 03:44:40 <epv> i was using it to ssh localhost for a while
Jul 29 03:45:22 <jjcklp> http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/xmonad.hs_for_the_Palm_Pre/ <--- this fellow right?
Jul 29 03:45:35 <gkatsev> so, is there something i can use as an alt key in the terminal app? would be useful in irssi
Jul 29 03:45:36 <jjcklp> rwhitby, i see now :) sorry
Jul 29 03:46:00 <jjcklp> dest would know, he's not here tho :/
Jul 29 03:46:27 <epv> alt for sending non-7-bit-ascii characters?
Jul 29 03:46:40 <jjcklp> all i know is sym + . is a pipe, and that makes me HAPPY.
Jul 29 03:46:59 <tris> looks like sprint filters at least these well-known tcp ports: 80 113(auth) 135(msrpc) 139(netbios-ssn) 445(microsoft-ds) 901(samba-swat) 1022 1023 1025 1433(ms-sql-s) 2967(symantec-av) 3128(squid-http) 3306(mysql) 4000(remoteanything) 4899(radmin) 5000(upnp) 6129 9898
Jul 29 03:47:06 <jjcklp> The day I can get compiz running on my pre, that will be the happiest day of my life.
Jul 29 03:47:20 <tris> and hey, there's dbus listening on 4444 and 4445... wonder what interesting stuff is being passed through there
Jul 29 03:47:42 <jjcklp> Wait, sprint has dbus listening on 4444 and 4445?
Jul 29 03:47:48 <jjcklp> And why the hell would you block 9898?
Jul 29 03:47:57 <tris> nono, the phone does
Jul 29 03:48:00 <epv> you can snoop dbus with dbus-monitor
Jul 29 03:48:06 <epv> it's even already there
Jul 29 03:48:08 <jjcklp> Oh, 9898, some virus thingy
Jul 29 03:48:12 <tris> i just opened everything up and nmapped it from outside
Jul 29 03:48:17 <JamesBaud> god damn it, I cant install ipk's on my pre anymore, ive done it before, no problems, now I cant, and I tried all 3 methods, dev mode is on, wtf?
Jul 29 03:48:17 <epv> that might be a way to capture text messages?
Jul 29 03:48:36 <jjcklp> JamesBaud, what's your syntax as root?
Jul 29 03:48:56 <epv> nope
Jul 29 03:48:59 <epv> o well
Jul 29 03:49:06 <jjcklp> epv, why not?
Jul 29 03:49:09 <JamesBaud> ive tried the WebOS Quick Install and drag drop ipk to palm-install.bat
Jul 29 03:49:24 <JamesBaud> trying the web page ipk link method now
Jul 29 03:49:29 <quotemstr_> What kind of device is the framebuffer anyway? Is it some kind of custom video thing?
Jul 29 03:49:38 <jjcklp> JamesBaud, oh, so you tried 2 methods? lol. And the 2 I'm not familiar with :/ get a putty terminal going and then we can talk...
Jul 29 03:49:49 <JamesBaud> k, 1 sec
Jul 29 03:50:07 <jjcklp> quotemstr_, the GUI uses something called DirectFB, it's really... interested. And different from everything I know about X :P
Jul 29 03:50:15 <tris> epv: you got dbus-monitor to run?
Jul 29 03:50:20 <jjcklp>  /s/ed/ing
Jul 29 03:50:27 <epv> well, i just ran it, and it showed some dbus events
Jul 29 03:50:30 <quotemstr_> jjcklp: Right, but DirectFB still talks to *something*.
Jul 29 03:50:33 <epv> i dunno about "got"
Jul 29 03:50:40 <quotemstr_> And I imagine there isn't a VGA BIOS sitting in the device somewhere. :-)
Jul 29 03:50:46 <tris> epv: did you have to run dbus-uuidgen first?
Jul 29 03:50:47 <rwhitby> jjcklp: ah, cool.  JoeyH has a Pre.  That means Debian will support it soon.
Jul 29 03:50:59 <epv> no
Jul 29 03:51:02 <jjcklp> good stuff lol
Jul 29 03:51:03 <JamesBaud> whats command to install ipk from /media/internal ?
Jul 29 03:51:05 <epv> dbus-capture also seems to work
Jul 29 03:51:31 <tris> i get Failed to open connection to session message bus: dbus-launch failed to autolaunch D-Bus session: Autolaunch requested, but X11 support not compiled in.
Jul 29 03:51:42 <epv> weird.
Jul 29 03:51:43 <jjcklp> quotemstr_, hm... well the gpu is on the arm chipset right? i'm assuming there's a gpu, is that a big assumtion?
Jul 29 03:51:49 <epv> do you have DISPLAY set or something?
Jul 29 03:51:53 <quotemstr_> Now that's interesting -- there's a PTT button /proc/interrupts
Jul 29 03:52:01 <tris> jamesbaud: a WebOS app?  "/usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install /media/internal/file.ipk" or so, probably
Jul 29 03:52:13 <jjcklp> i suppose it could be using INDIRECT rendering. hmm...
Jul 29 03:52:36 <jjcklp> JamesBaud, yes, exactly what he just said
Jul 29 03:52:38 <epv> i'm really impressed that they named all the interrupts sanely
Jul 29 03:52:53 <epv> and all the pulseaudio sources/sinks
Jul 29 03:52:56 <tris> epv: nope, that's not it either. where'd you find dbus-capture?
Jul 29 03:53:01 <jjcklp> epv, I'm really impressed there are NO CURSE WORDS in the core lol
Jul 29 03:53:12 <quotemstr_> http://www.directfb.org/index.php?path=Projects%2FXDirectFB
Jul 29 03:53:19 <JamesBaud> k, ty
Jul 29 03:53:20 <epv> oh sorry, dbus-util --capture
Jul 29 03:53:30 <epv>  /usr/bin
Jul 29 03:53:33 <quotemstr_> jjcklp: I'm not the only one who grepped for those. :-)
Jul 29 03:53:40 <quotemstr_> jjcklp: But try XXX, TODO, and FIXME. :-)
Jul 29 03:53:52 <epv>  or // drunk, fix later
Jul 29 03:54:03 <quotemstr_> Hrm, I didn't find that one
Jul 29 03:54:04 <jjcklp> Yes.
Jul 29 03:54:07 <jjcklp> hehe
Jul 29 03:54:08 <rwhitby> dbus-monitor --system is fun
Jul 29 03:54:29 <jjcklp> that x11 over directfb thing is really interesting
Jul 29 03:54:43 <quotemstr_> Clearly, the Pre was coded at the Ballmer Peak :-)
Jul 29 03:54:43 <rwhitby> libPirahna is what Palm use to draw
Jul 29 03:54:57 <rwhitby> (under webcore)
Jul 29 03:55:05 <jjcklp> i know a lot of the guys that worked on the compiz core... so if eventually it comes down to getting x running, maybe i can get them to help with compositing
Jul 29 03:56:33 <quotemstr_> jjcklp: You shouldn't even need that. I see no reason in principle you couldn't treat DirectFB as just another video device.
Jul 29 03:57:08 <jjcklp> rwhitby, you're onto something, it's actually super interesting :)
Jul 29 03:57:57 <jjcklp> quotemstr_, you're over my head now ;) I leave that stuff to the sysadmins lol
Jul 29 03:58:08 <epv> oh, tris, you can get the text of SMSs with dbus-monitor --system
Jul 29 03:58:27 <rwhitby> jjcklp: there's a wiki page on dbus introspection ...
Jul 29 03:58:28 <jjcklp> epv, you seriously? you ran it and sent a text to yourself or something?
Jul 29 03:58:34 <epv> yeah
Jul 29 03:58:39 <rwhitby> everything goes over dbus on the Pre
Jul 29 03:58:40 <jjcklp> D: o.O
Jul 29 03:59:00 <jjcklp> Totally gotta do it. What's the most efficient way to strip sms from dbus?
Jul 29 03:59:14 <quotemstr_> I'm curious -- were is that drunk comment?
Jul 29 03:59:26 <jjcklp> i'm sorry there are a lot of drunk comments... I actually... gotta ... go
Jul 29 03:59:29 <jjcklp> lol, night guys
Jul 29 04:00:30 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root# /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install /media/internal/carpen
Jul 29 04:00:30 <JamesBaud> terslevel_0.1.0_all.ipk
Jul 29 04:00:30 <JamesBaud> Begin installation of carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:00:30 <JamesBaud> Installing carpenterslevel (0.1.0) to root...
Jul 29 04:00:30 <JamesBaud> Configuring carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:00:30 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root#
Jul 29 04:00:32 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root# /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install /media/internal/carpen
Jul 29 04:00:34 <JamesBaud> terslevel_0.1.0_all.ipk
Jul 29 04:00:36 <JamesBaud> Begin installation of carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:00:38 <JamesBaud> Installing carpenterslevel (0.1.0) to root...
Jul 29 04:00:40 <JamesBaud> Configuring carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:00:42 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root#
Jul 29 04:00:51 <Eguy> anyway to do { and } in terminal yet? :)
Jul 29 04:01:50 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root# /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install /media/internal/carpen
Jul 29 04:01:50 <JamesBaud> terslevel_0.1.0_all.ipk
Jul 29 04:01:50 <JamesBaud> Begin installation of carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:01:50 <JamesBaud> Installing carpenterslevel (0.1.0) to root...
Jul 29 04:01:50 <JamesBaud> Configuring carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:01:51 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root#
Jul 29 04:01:53 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root# /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install /media/internal/carpen
Jul 29 04:01:55 <JamesBaud> terslevel_0.1.0_all.ipk
Jul 29 04:01:57 <JamesBaud> Begin installation of carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:01:59 <JamesBaud> Installing carpenterslevel (0.1.0) to root...
Jul 29 04:02:01 <JamesBaud> Configuring carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:02:03 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root#
Jul 29 04:02:03 <epv> aaieerrggh
Jul 29 04:02:05 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root# /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install /media/internal/carpen
Jul 29 04:02:07 <JamesBaud> terslevel_0.1.0_all.ipk
Jul 29 04:02:09 <JamesBaud> Begin installation of carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:02:11 <JamesBaud> Installing carpenterslevel (0.1.0) to root...
Jul 29 04:02:13 <JamesBaud> Configuring carpenterslevel
Jul 29 04:02:15 <JamesBaud> root@castle:/var/home/root#
Jul 29 04:02:17 <JamesBaud> sory for the spam
Jul 29 04:02:20 <JamesBaud> didnt scroll down on irc
Jul 29 04:02:26 <Eguy> copy and pasteeeeeeeeeeeee
Jul 29 04:02:29 <JamesBaud> didnt see it in chan, my bad
Jul 29 04:02:29 <tris> epv: sweet!!
Jul 29 04:02:31 <Rick__> for GHUS SAKE use PASTEBIN
Jul 29 04:02:43 <JamesBaud> my bad, im a lil high too
Jul 29 04:02:47 <Eguy> lol
Jul 29 04:02:48 <tris> jamesbaud: time to switch to irssi :)
Jul 29 04:02:58 <JamesBaud> but yea, i cant get ipk's to install now
Jul 29 04:03:09 <Rick__> type to switch to sleep.   Don't compute drunk in public.
Jul 29 04:03:16 <JamesBaud> or are they installing and I dont see the icon in the launcher?
Jul 29 04:03:26 <Eguy> did you reboot after?
Jul 29 04:03:31 <JamesBaud> no...
Jul 29 04:03:35 <Eguy> or force luna to resart
Jul 29 04:03:39 <Eguy> WELL
Jul 29 04:03:45 <Eguy> DUHHH
Jul 29 04:03:48 <JamesBaud> what would be the command to do that
Jul 29 04:03:50 <Eguy> you have to restart
Jul 29 04:03:54 <rwhitby> JamesBaud: search for "rescan" on the wiki
Jul 29 04:03:58 <JamesBaud> okz
Jul 29 04:03:59 <Eguy> http://www.autoblog.com/photos/ferrari-458-italia-1/low/
Jul 29 04:04:05 <Eguy> I did you a big favor
Jul 29 04:04:12 <Eguy> oops
Jul 29 04:04:17 <Eguy> my copy and paste didn't work
Jul 29 04:04:25 <Eguy> luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {}
Jul 29 04:04:40 <rwhitby> Eguy: yours? (the ferrari)
Jul 29 04:04:44 <tris> epv: figured it out.  i was running /opt/bin/dbus-monitor, not /usr/bin/dbus-monitor (why I have two copies, I have no idea)
Jul 29 04:04:46 <Eguy> New model :P
Jul 29 04:04:51 <Eguy> Replacing the F430
Jul 29 04:05:17 <JamesBaud> SWEET, worked, TY TY TY
Jul 29 04:05:37 <JamesBaud> now i can show off Pre apps to my damn iPhone fan boys at work, TY TY TY
Jul 29 04:05:49 <Eguy> lol
Jul 29 04:05:56 <Eguy> I've been doing that for weeks
Jul 29 04:06:01 <Eguy> And it works
Jul 29 04:06:11 <JamesBaud> =)
Jul 29 04:06:13 <Eguy> especially my Touchstone
Jul 29 04:06:33 <JamesBaud> aight, ty eguy and rwhitby, later
Jul 29 04:06:46 <destinal> gkatsev: no alt key at the moment -- irssi needs alt?
Jul 29 04:08:10 <tris> jamesbaud: also useful is the three-finger salute, orange-sym-r (reboot)
Jul 29 04:08:25 <Eguy> I just did that
Jul 29 04:08:26 <tris> but that takes 4 mins or so :)
Jul 29 04:08:34 <Eguy> 4??? come on :P
Jul 29 04:08:59 <raeb1> hold power button and toggle ringer switch 3 times
Jul 29 04:09:47 <gkatsev> destinal: well, alt+num changes to that window, alt+q,w,e,r,t,y,u,i changes to windows 11-18
Jul 29 04:10:06 <gkatsev> i have alt-a go to previous window and alt-s to the next window requiring focus
Jul 29 04:10:38 <tris> raeb1: (trusting this is not the magic "rm -rf /" sequence... :)
Jul 29 04:10:42 <psykoz> speaking of cars
Jul 29 04:10:45 <psykoz> http://www.inautonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/702299l.jpg
Jul 29 04:10:55 <destinal> gkatsev: hmmm .. not sure we have metakeys left
Jul 29 04:11:10 <Eguy> yeah that was confirmed to be a fake
Jul 29 04:11:16 <Eguy> but it made it to Top Gear
Jul 29 04:11:18 <tris> gkatsev: it'd be good if someone could document how the other popular mobile ssh clients handle this
Jul 29 04:11:23 <destinal> gkatsev: we use sym, shift, orange, and gesture hold already
Jul 29 04:11:26 <raeb1> psykoz: thats fake
Jul 29 04:11:30 <raeb1> he was doing 100 in his altima
Jul 29 04:11:34 <Eguy> yep
Jul 29 04:11:36 <destinal> though there's not much on gesture hold, we're using it for arrow keys now
Jul 29 04:11:46 <raeb1> o yeah i saw it on top gear
Jul 29 04:11:53 <tmzt> tris: handle what?
Jul 29 04:11:56 <Eguy> best show ever
Jul 29 04:11:58 <tris> can't capture the volume buttons, right?
Jul 29 04:12:12 <Eguy> bbl
Jul 29 04:12:13 <raeb1> i guess
Jul 29 04:12:13 <tris> tmzt: meta keys (alt+etc)
Jul 29 04:12:15 <gkatsev> tris: i think they just have like a bar at the top or bottom for mod keys
Jul 29 04:12:19 <raeb1> clarkson is a cock sometimes
Jul 29 04:12:22 <tris> or any other key that's weird
Jul 29 04:12:29 <destinal> yeah we probably just need a row
Jul 29 04:12:42 <tris> gkatsev: oh yeah, and that works a lot better with a stylus than a finger :/
Jul 29 04:13:06 <destinal> tris: we could get volume keys but then what if you actually want to control volume?  (gesture hold plus volume, or switch cards?)
Jul 29 04:13:12 <gkatsev> tris: works fine on the iphone/g1
Jul 29 04:13:47 <destinal> I guess we need to start allowing arbitrary reconfiguration
Jul 29 04:14:01 <psykoz> raeb1, notice what car that is
Jul 29 04:14:08 <psykoz> Bugatti, probably a Veryon
Jul 29 04:14:14 <raeb1> altima
Jul 29 04:14:15 <psykoz> which goes 253mph, he still had 40mph to go
Jul 29 04:14:18 <raeb1> probably a nissan
Jul 29 04:14:45 <raeb1> scratch
Jul 29 04:14:47 <raeb1> infinity
Jul 29 04:14:53 <gkatsev> destinal: perhaps a bar with keyboard gestures for them, so, like, ctrl will be in the bar, but can also be the sym key?
Jul 29 04:15:01 <raeb1> psykoz: http://www.excitador.com/2009/07/bugatti-veyron-speeding-ticket-a-fake/
Jul 29 04:15:36 <destinal> also I guess we could use swipe left to right for alt
Jul 29 04:15:36 <psykoz> I am pwned
Jul 29 04:15:37 <psykoz> u win
Jul 29 04:17:49 <destinal> mrvc: did you guys track down the latency issue from today's commits?
Jul 29 04:17:59 <quotemstr_> Holy cow
Jul 29 04:18:00 * destinal has been out for a bit
Jul 29 04:18:05 <quotemstr_> "Bing will become Yahoo's default search engine"
Jul 29 04:18:43 <Zuchmir2> destinal: when using the -O2 compile switch it went from 0.5 to 0.06-0.07
Jul 29 04:18:52 <epv> yeah that certainly made a big difference
Jul 29 04:19:26 <destinal> Zuchmir2: yeah but that may not answer the question
Jul 29 04:19:48 <destinal> or wait -O2 is what the autobuild uses?
Jul 29 04:19:54 <destinal> so that does explain the difference
Jul 29 04:20:01 <Zuchmir2> in theory, gesture+control+qwerty can be used as F1,F2,F3 etc.
Jul 29 04:20:52 <Zuchmir2> the pre-out was not using -O2, (now it is), dunno about the autobuild
Jul 29 04:20:56 <destinal> Zuchmir2: I think that's best for button bar
Jul 29 04:21:00 <epv> i still think a popup menu for rarely used characters would be better
Jul 29 04:21:02 <destinal> we need one
Jul 29 04:21:10 <rwhitby> destinal: autobuilder just does what the makefile says
Jul 29 04:21:14 <destinal> we also need a symbols pane for regular symbols
Jul 29 04:21:48 <destinal> ok, so I'm a little nervous that we introduced a huge speed issue between two builds with the same switches and then fix it with switches
Jul 29 04:22:00 <destinal> that indicates we may just be papering over the problem
Jul 29 04:22:23 <destinal> ie how much faster *could* it have been before today with -O2
Jul 29 04:23:09 <Zuchmir2> dunno, i don't think there was anything introduced today to slow it down
Jul 29 04:23:33 <epv> hopefully someone other than me noticed it being slow?
Jul 29 04:23:38 <destinal> I guess we need to build before / after with the same switches and compare the numbers
Jul 29 04:24:04 <Zuchmir2> epv: i also noticed the lag, but i ignored it, until it was mentioned
Jul 29 04:24:10 <epv> ok
Jul 29 04:24:31 <Zuchmir2> destinal: try it out
Jul 29 04:26:28 <Zuchmir2> i don't know how to back to yesterdays build to test (I guess someone with the ipk can test the speed)
Jul 29 04:26:29 <epv> i built before and after without the optimization switches and got 100ms vs 500ms
Jul 29 04:27:01 <Zuchmir2> epv: before and after today's commits?
Jul 29 04:27:41 <epv> zuchmir: if you don't have locally modified files, you can do "git reset 3b2f3f4f055dd662ba6c51bd3113b96ef9d08df2" for example
Jul 29 04:27:51 <epv> yeah, i did this morning
Jul 29 04:28:03 <Zuchmir2> epv: when developing/testing/fixing/debuging/etc things are ALWAYS too slow :-)
Jul 29 04:29:28 <destinal> epv: thanks for the data point.  that is concerning
Jul 29 04:30:06 <epv> it did seem odd. i didn't see anything that seemed obvious as a cause, though it seemed to be in that one commit?
Jul 29 04:30:15 <Zuchmir2> epc: before today's comits with/without -O2 was differences
Jul 29 04:30:34 <epv> i never built with optimization on until tonight
Jul 29 04:30:55 <epv> someone else should try comparing speed between the revisions just to confirm that i wasn't on crack or something
Jul 29 04:30:57 <destinal> Zuchmir2: the fact that we suddenly _need_ optimization for a usable experience means maybe we should consider
Jul 29 04:31:09 <destinal> if we didn't expect such a difference especially
Jul 29 04:31:15 <Zuchmir2> ok, can u try last night's w/optimization vs. today's w/optimization
Jul 29 04:31:31 <epv> yeah, sweeping a problem under the rug with the optimizer only works once :)
Jul 29 04:32:16 <destinal> I'm not saying optimization is bad in general, just that this is a red flag worth checking into
Jul 29 04:32:22 <destinal> and knowing *why* before continuing
Jul 29 04:32:31 * destinal goes hunting for his x compiler
Jul 29 04:32:34 <Zuchmir2> let's 1st get the facts as to optimization, then deal further
Jul 29 04:32:59 <Zuchmir2> btw: mrvc is redoing/reorganizing stuff, so the tests here are not absolute
Jul 29 04:36:05 <psykoz> Quick feature request... when you switch cards (ie: go to card view) clear keystates
Jul 29 04:36:12 <psykoz> for gesture/sym/orange
Jul 29 04:36:39 <psykoz> It's sorta sucky coming back to that card sometimes and having to double tap gesture, sym orange or some combination of the 2 or 3 to get back to typing mode
Jul 29 04:36:49 <Zuchmir2> btw we also need to know how much scrren real-estate is being used by notifications  (to shring/expand)
Jul 29 04:38:04 <psykoz> and has anyone reported problems with irssi where inputting text clears the activity bar, and when people say stuff garbles the text as well?  Just curious it could be relate dto me having utf8 enabled on all of my shells/apps
Jul 29 04:38:38 <epv> i've had similar linewrapping/scrolling issues but i'm not sure if it's a problem with terminal
Jul 29 04:39:43 <Zuchmir2> epv: are u using the latest HEAD?
Jul 29 04:39:57 <epv> yes
Jul 29 04:39:58 <Zuchmir2> that should fix alot of scrolling issues
Jul 29 04:40:03 <Zuchmir2> hmm...
Jul 29 04:40:04 <epv> well
Jul 29 04:40:16 <epv> i haven't updated in the last couple of hours, if you've committed anything
Jul 29 04:40:26 <epv> i'll pull
Jul 29 04:40:46 <destinal> Zuchmir2: shouldn't draw event tell us that?
Jul 29 04:40:54 <destinal> how much to draw, I mean
Jul 29 04:41:03 <Zuchmir2> did u take the commit marked "Added scroll-region"
Jul 29 04:41:41 <epv> yes
Jul 29 04:41:49 <epv> well, let me rebuild just t be sure
Jul 29 04:41:51 <Zuchmir2> destinal: that doesn't help the "Bottom" (which mrvc is reserving for buttons) stay in view
Jul 29 04:41:53 <epv> and i'll try it again
Jul 29 04:43:37 <epv> hmm ok i'm on the terminal now inside of screen
Jul 29 04:44:06 <epv> which is always a good torture test of terminal emulation
Jul 29 04:45:16 <epv> oh maybe it is much better now
Jul 29 04:46:22 <epv> yeah, it was getting messed up by lines wrapping differently than screen expected them to, but i don't think it is any more
Jul 29 04:47:26 <epv> maybe i'll see how it works with 4x6 font too
Jul 29 04:51:07 <epv> yay microscopic
Jul 29 04:53:30 <epv> testing
Jul 29 04:54:04 <epv> so.. scrolling is all good with 8x8 font, but not always with 4x6
Jul 29 04:54:13 <epv> maybe there is an assumption somewhere that shouldn't be :)
Jul 29 04:54:26 <epv> sorry, i should say line wrapping, rather than scrolling
Jul 29 04:54:41 <james_> has anyone installed the pretorrent app?
Jul 29 04:54:55 <epv> looks like sometimes a line will wrap in terminal, but screen will have expected it to not have wrapped, and so it will scroll when it shouldn't
Jul 29 04:55:01 <epv> why would you torrent on a pre? :)
Jul 29 04:55:11 <james_> i was just curious
Jul 29 04:55:14 <destinal> pretorrent?  wtf?
Jul 29 04:55:20 <epv> that was my response :)
Jul 29 04:55:33 <gkatsev> there is an rtorrent page on the wiki
Jul 29 04:55:45 <james_> someone also said they thought it could be bad for the pre, and could overwork it
Jul 29 04:55:59 <epv> maybe if your only other internet connectivity is an iridium phone
Jul 29 04:56:11 <Zuchmir2> epv: that prob has todo with handling last char on line/screen ... that's tricky, hast to be seen what other apps assume about that
Jul 29 04:56:24 <Zuchmir2> mrvc was tackling that
Jul 29 04:56:38 <epv> yeah
Jul 29 04:56:41 <destinal> james_: oh, it looks like it just sends the torrent to another box to get
Jul 29 04:57:29 <james_> like i could do the torrent on my phone and it would download to my home computer?
Jul 29 04:58:11 <destinal> well, depends on what you mean by "do"
Jul 29 04:58:29 <james_> select the torrent you want to dl
Jul 29 04:58:33 <destinal> you're basically just grabbing torrent files and sending them off to your own server somewhere to handle
Jul 29 04:58:48 <destinal> not the actual data, just the .torrent
Jul 29 04:59:11 <james_> interesting
Jul 29 04:59:17 <gkatsev> well, a torrent app would be useful if its basically just a control app for the web interface
Jul 29 04:59:25 <gkatsev> i dont think you actually want to torrent on the phone
Jul 29 04:59:38 <destinal> so it's for browsing torrents and queuing them up to run on some other server
Jul 29 04:59:43 <james_> ok, i won't get it
Jul 29 04:59:53 <gkatsev> such as, you have transmission on desktop and control it from phone
Jul 29 04:59:58 <destinal> right
Jul 29 05:00:05 <james_> it would be really cool if that is how it worked
Jul 29 05:00:19 <james_> and it used my computer's transmission and downloaded while i was out
Jul 29 05:00:24 <destinal> not sure how much control right now other than sending stuff, but maybe he's going for that
Jul 29 05:00:34 <gkatsev> well, pretorrent is a front end for transmission, but thats installed on the phone
Jul 29 05:01:50 <gkatsev> anyway, good night
Jul 29 05:02:02 <james_> cya
Jul 29 05:04:59 <oc80z> b0h
Jul 29 05:11:10 <psykoz> http://blogs.ajc.com/mike-luckovich/files/2009/07/mike07222009.jpg
Jul 29 05:13:58 <epv> heh
Jul 29 05:16:05 <Decimation_> hello
Jul 29 05:18:58 <gnuyen> after installing optware
Jul 29 05:19:27 <gnuyen> it says it installed a ssh server, and the client, is there anyway to run the client from the phone?
Jul 29 05:20:01 <gnuyen> i mean i can ssh into it, and then ssh out
Jul 29 05:25:16 <oc80z> eh?
Jul 29 05:25:30 <gnuyen> i want to ssh from the phone
Jul 29 05:25:37 <oc80z> you can do that
Jul 29 05:25:54 <oc80z> do you want to ssh from a WebOS homebrew application?
Jul 29 05:27:40 <gnuyen> yeah i guesss
Jul 29 05:28:06 <destinal> Zuchmir2, mrvc:  is this worthy of a release tonight or should we wait for more stuff?
Jul 29 05:28:11 <destinal> or more testing
Jul 29 05:28:36 <destinal> epv: also what do you think since you've been playing with it
Jul 29 05:29:25 <oc80z> yeah try it./
Jul 29 05:29:37 <destinal> oh, and also, do we risk people becoming not excited about new releases if we bundle tiny incremental ones every night?
Jul 29 05:31:14 <hopspitfire> destinal: I'd love to see incremental, nightly releases
Jul 29 05:32:18 <hopspitfire> destinal: somebody has to test it all ;)
Jul 29 05:33:10 <destinal> heh, maybe there's a point to having a second feed for bleeding edge and stabilizing the main one a bit.  although we don't have to do that now
Jul 29 05:36:06 <destinal> Zuchmir3: irssi?
Jul 29 05:36:36 <Zuchmir3> ircii NOT on pre
Jul 29 05:36:37 * Robi_ just came back from the webOS Meetup at Palm, Inc.
Jul 29 05:36:48 <destinal> Robi_: cool, how'd that go?
Jul 29 05:36:56 <Robi_> oh it was great
Jul 29 05:37:05 <Zuchmir3> i'm in novaterm, trying to see what it's supposed to look like
Jul 29 05:37:11 <Robi_> 8 palm guys to poke questions at
Jul 29 05:37:21 <Robi_> 1 dev from pivotal labs
Jul 29 05:38:01 <Robi_> and 2 talks about basic webOS framework and about how pivotal does tools and dev for the pre
Jul 29 05:38:02 <destinal> Robi_: so, did they answer any?  like, native sdk?
Jul 29 05:38:44 <Robi_> you didn't ask me to ask that :P
Jul 29 05:38:57 <destinal> sheesh, how could you NOT know
Jul 29 05:39:05 <destinal> :P
Jul 29 05:39:13 <Robi_> i wore the wrong t-shirt today, that's why
Jul 29 05:39:34 <destinal> did they answer anything about future of platform(s)?
Jul 29 05:39:52 <Robi_> they're not going in that direction (i think) because it's more difficult to support the diff platforms
Jul 29 05:40:14 <Robi_> veery little, they cant comment on future bits much other than maybe and looking into it
Jul 29 05:40:19 <destinal> well they clearly make exceptions for special vendors, like motion apps
Jul 29 05:40:45 <destinal> could be an exclusive deal or there could be a few other partners that get secret bits
Jul 29 05:40:57 <destinal> maybe licensing deals like the PS3 and such
Jul 29 05:41:36 <Robi_> those deals can't be huge as palm has other stuff to worry abt too
Jul 29 05:41:50 <destinal> yeah, app catalog?
Jul 29 05:41:52 <Robi_> meaining whatever exceptions
Jul 29 05:42:03 <destinal> just like, getting apps to the market?
Jul 29 05:42:14 <Robi_> yeah app cat is comign along, cant say much but it's gonna be cool
Jul 29 05:42:18 <Robi_> soon soon soon
Jul 29 05:42:29 <Robi_> when when when, sigh
Jul 29 05:42:31 <destinal> any comment re: homebrew folks?
Jul 29 05:42:35 <Robi_> none
Jul 29 05:42:43 <destinal> did anyone ask?
Jul 29 05:42:45 <Robi_> feeling was that it's not a problem
Jul 29 05:42:52 <Robi_> they know we hack , they dont mind
Jul 29 05:43:01 <Robi_> ooh here's a gen
Jul 29 05:43:03 <Robi_> er gem
Jul 29 05:43:09 <hopspitfire> Robi_: why don't they care about the hacking?
Jul 29 05:43:28 <Robi_> talked to a guy who may make a keyb combo to do a luna-send ...rescan {}
Jul 29 05:43:29 <destinal> hopspitfire: why does dell not care if you hack your vostro?
Jul 29 05:43:43 <Robi_> which is kinda pointless but hey
Jul 29 05:43:48 <jauderho> re
Jul 29 05:44:02 <Robi_> hopspitfire: more like don't care in some gestapo tightass way
Jul 29 05:44:11 <destinal> it's just a computer, people have been making their own stuff for their own computers forever
Jul 29 05:44:28 <Robi_> the palm team got props for the open platform and ease of use and multitasking
Jul 29 05:44:33 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: ok, I've pushed my changes
Jul 29 05:44:44 <hopspitfire> I meant more along the lines of how Apple cares about their IP, along with Sony and their PS3/PSP
Jul 29 05:44:46 <mrvc> destinal, Zuchmir2: hopefully I didn't break things too badly
Jul 29 05:44:57 <Zuchmir2> :-)
Jul 29 05:45:07 <destinal> mrvc: what's your feeling, wait for a feed release or go bleeding edge?
Jul 29 05:45:19 <jauderho> so I asked chuq about palm's stance on sideloading
Jul 29 05:45:21 <destinal> ie push to non-git users or no
Jul 29 05:45:51 <mrvc> destinal: I checked top and vi and changing screen orientations
Jul 29 05:45:53 <destinal> trying to figure out the balance between demand for improvements and stability
Jul 29 05:46:10 <jauderho> and his basic response is (unofficial of course) is that sideloading is fine as long as no one tries to build a separate app catalog for commerical purposes which I think is very reasonable
Jul 29 05:46:11 <mrvc> destinal: Probably need to test with something that uses the scroll region
Jul 29 05:46:25 <mrvc> destinal: I'm not sure what that is
Jul 29 05:46:46 <mrvc> destinal: I mean, I'm not sure which program uses that
Jul 29 05:46:52 <destinal> ah
Jul 29 05:47:11 <mrvc> destinal: I'm assuming some program came up that wasn't working right
Jul 29 05:47:21 <destinal> jauderho: good question, and great answer.  he specifically mentioned app catalog for _commercial_ purposes?
Jul 29 05:47:24 <james_> the podcast app is my favorite app
Jul 29 05:47:24 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: did you add the scroll region to make a particular program work better?
Jul 29 05:47:41 <jauderho> yes I kinda pressed him on that
Jul 29 05:47:51 <destinal> so that would imply free open source is not a concern for them
Jul 29 05:47:57 <Zuchmir2> ircii wasn't working
Jul 29 05:47:58 <destinal> wish they'd put that in writing
Jul 29 05:47:58 <jauderho> he said it's fine if it's amongst friends or a group of people
Jul 29 05:48:06 <Zuchmir2> ... as that scrolls middle of screen
Jul 29 05:48:18 <jauderho> HOWEVER
Jul 29 05:48:37 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: ok, I'll try it
Jul 29 05:48:43 <jauderho> having a huge single repo would probably neccesitate having to talk to them just to clear things
Jul 29 05:49:08 <james_> webos should make an app catalog of their own for free apps
Jul 29 05:49:23 <hopspitfire> jauderho: Even if it's an entirely open source repo?
Jul 29 05:49:25 <destinal> james_: exists and it's called preware
Jul 29 05:49:27 <jauderho> i'm pretty impressed with their attitude tonight.
Jul 29 05:49:28 <james_> webos=webos-internals
Jul 29 05:49:28 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: btw, 80 columns actually doesn't look too bad on the pre itself -- this thing has an amazing screen
Jul 29 05:49:36 <james_> destinal, i was wondering about that
Jul 29 05:49:37 <james_> cool thanks
Jul 29 05:49:48 <jauderho> hopspitfire: dont quote me on it but that should be fine
Jul 29 05:49:48 <destinal> we just need to make it bigger
Jul 29 05:50:04 <jauderho> just need more apps. and probably a more polished interface
Jul 29 05:50:11 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I was looking at the emulator before
Jul 29 05:50:23 <destinal> jauderho: well the thing is that they can't actually do anything legally about a competing app store, just go after the developers who post there
Jul 29 05:50:30 <james_> destinal, you mean "it works!" isn't pretty enough :)
Jul 29 05:50:32 <destinal> if they agreed the eula
Jul 29 05:50:41 <jauderho> well it depends on how it is implemented.
Jul 29 05:50:50 <destinal> james_: well, right now it all works on the command line
Jul 29 05:50:59 <jauderho> I bet if the app catalog app is subverted, they might not be too happy about it.
Jul 29 05:51:09 <jauderho> i'm fine with palm being the only commercial source
Jul 29 05:51:18 <jauderho> they have to pay the bills somehow
Jul 29 05:51:20 <destinal> jauderho: nobody's talking subverting the app, just making their own
Jul 29 05:51:48 <destinal> jauderho: and their main way to try to prevent that is the eula's with the developers
Jul 29 05:52:06 <destinal> but that doesn't stop the store, just the developer
Jul 29 05:52:27 <jauderho> if it is a completely different app catalog app plus repo, then it's up to palm to see how they want to enforce that but I rather see things happen in good faith. open source repo is fine just as long as it's not commercial.
Jul 29 05:52:33 <jauderho> destinal: true
Jul 29 05:53:14 <jauderho> I also mentioned the various outstanding patches to chuq and he promised to think/find out if there is some way to get some of this stuff back into palm.
Jul 29 05:53:20 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: i'm looking over your code...
Jul 29 05:53:27 <destinal> I think there's something bad about trying to be the one distribution point for your platform like apple did
Jul 29 05:53:41 <Zuchmir2> i hope u made sure the flip back/forth doesn't clip text
Jul 29 05:54:15 <jauderho> destinal: nothing wrong with being the distribution point imo it's apples app approval policy that is not fun.
Jul 29 05:54:32 <destinal> jauderho: right, but that's part of it
Jul 29 05:54:35 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yeah, I tested that -- seemed good
Jul 29 05:54:51 <jauderho> if palm could pull it off, they would take a smaller cut than apple for now to get people going.
Jul 29 05:55:06 <destinal> jauderho: being the one point like that means you're the one point of failure when people want what you don't want to publishj
Jul 29 05:55:19 <destinal> it's effectively like censorship
Jul 29 05:55:52 <jauderho> well there are always the jailbroken apps but the pre compartively makes it much easier to sideload than apple.
Jul 29 05:56:09 <destinal> but as long as there are experimental distribution mechanisms for test releases of open source stuff that we can all test prior to those apps getting approved on the catalog, things will be better than the iphone
Jul 29 05:56:37 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: did u test irc?
Jul 29 05:56:40 <destinal> and yeah there's always novacom
Jul 29 05:57:11 <jauderho> I asked the sdk guys if luna-send had a command seq for the camera to take a picture on the command line and their response was go look inside the camera code =)
Jul 29 05:58:07 <destinal> yeah, totally
Jul 29 05:59:00 <destinal> Zuchmir2: let me try
Jul 29 05:59:16 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: working on it
Jul 29 05:59:43 <destinal> jauderho: I am curious what they think about things like terminal
Jul 29 06:00:21 <jauderho> dunno
Jul 29 06:00:24 <jauderho> didnt ask
Jul 29 06:00:27 <oc80z> is it 100% open?
Jul 29 06:00:39 <jauderho> they would not comment on opengl support
Jul 29 06:00:41 <destinal> since to me (with the exception of the dbus services we had before) its the first major app that's gone beyond the sdk stuff, ie the intended ways for developers to do things
Jul 29 06:00:44 <destinal> oc80z: yes
Jul 29 06:00:57 <oc80z> then its 100% solid :D
Jul 29 06:00:57 <destinal> GPLv2, code on the git repo
Jul 29 06:01:00 <jauderho> chuq did mention that c/c++/java support is amongst the most requested.
Jul 29 06:01:19 <jauderho> java is in there already but the harmony build is old.
Jul 29 06:02:06 <jauderho> does the terminal app use the fb or is it still an html app?
Jul 29 06:02:10 <mrvc-test> amazing
Jul 29 06:02:25 <destinal> jauderho: well termplugin is c++ ,but it's not in any mechanism from any approved sdk
Jul 29 06:02:36 <destinal> totally off the beaten track
Jul 29 06:02:44 <jauderho> ah.
Jul 29 06:02:58 <destinal> so what people want is of course possible
Jul 29 06:03:01 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: does the height shring when rotate back/forth?
Jul 29 06:03:04 <destinal> just palm's not making any official support for it
Jul 29 06:03:12 <destinal> yet
Jul 29 06:03:30 <destinal> mrvc-test: greetings
Jul 29 06:04:18 <destinal> jauderho: it's a browser plugin, I think the first homebrew one (besides the hello world one we made before that)
Jul 29 06:04:43 <mrvc-test>  think it works properky
Jul 29 06:05:19 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: line 84: int height_chars = _height_pixels/font.char_height();
Jul 29 06:05:28 <Zuchmir2> ... doesn't do a max()
Jul 29 06:07:47 <destinal> I wish I would have been at the meetup,  I would have asked about the GPL, and palm was going to get their packages fixed up
Jul 29 06:07:48 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yeah, it didn't seem like it was necessary since this is the scrollback size
Jul 29 06:08:18 <destinal> right now the few I've tested don't build
Jul 29 06:08:19 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: so you are only losing characters off the top
Jul 29 06:08:37 <tris> anyone using the powersave-cpu-scaling patch?  is it worth applying?  last time I tried something like this, my phone started crashing a lot
Jul 29 06:08:45 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: i'm looking at the code, not the screen :-)
Jul 29 06:08:56 <jauderho> tris. not really
Jul 29 06:09:05 <jauderho> it's not really all that stable
Jul 29 06:09:22 <Zuchmir2> also: int scrollTop() { return (_scroll_top == 1) ? 0 : _scroll_top; } was there before, as i was seeing ircii giving 1-50 as top/bottom
Jul 29 06:09:25 <jauderho> look at the userspace app in the precentral forums. that one works ok for now.
Jul 29 06:09:40 <tris> ah, cool.  how about powersave-smartreflex?
Jul 29 06:09:43 <Zuchmir2> ... also when it exits
Jul 29 06:09:54 <jauderho> lol. I made both patches =)
Jul 29 06:10:03 <jauderho> you can try either one
Jul 29 06:10:09 <jauderho> but not together.
Jul 29 06:10:15 <Zuchmir2> as such, i want to make sure scrolling works normal after exiting
Jul 29 06:10:31 <mrvc-test> i guess the scroll region is working properly, since ircii looks basically right
Jul 29 06:12:34 <Zuchmir2> the question is after u exit whether the entire screen scrolls
Jul 29 06:12:45 <Zuchmir2> also, do u have full scroll back in irc?
Jul 29 06:14:03 <Zuchmir2> now when i exit irc i loose scroll-back
Jul 29 06:14:34 <Zuchmir2> that's what those lines were for
Jul 29 06:15:36 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I think it is an off-by-one problem in CharBuffer::setScrollRegion
Jul 29 06:16:14 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: the term state has the top row at 1, but the char buffer as the top row at 0
Jul 29 06:16:39 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: so, I've just made it use top-1
Jul 29 06:16:40 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: testing
Jul 29 06:16:57 <Zuchmir2> then test again in irc
Jul 29 06:17:02 <rwhitby> jauderho: great info from the palm meetup, thanks.  validates our preware.org plans I think.
Jul 29 06:17:26 <jauderho> rwhitby; you should still confirm with chuq
Jul 29 06:17:59 <rwhitby> jauderho: sure, but sometimes it's best not to ask directly, just to get guidance from third-parties.
Jul 29 06:18:28 <destinal_emu> 88&:8
Jul 29 06:18:35 <jauderho> just as long we agree i am not to be quoted =)
Jul 29 06:18:56 <rwhitby> jauderho: I didn't hear it from you.  Some random guy in the IRC channel said something.
Jul 29 06:19:01 <jauderho> lol
Jul 29 06:19:35 * rwhitby figures he should contact chuq one of these days ....
Jul 29 06:20:45 <destinal> right now all I know is there was a movie on my pre when it first started up telling me to have fun, so that's what I'm doing. :)
Jul 29 06:21:42 <destinal> hopefully some of you guys are having a good time also
Jul 29 06:21:59 <oc80z> hells yes
Jul 29 06:22:16 <oc80z> ...should even post some 3rd party apps
Jul 29 06:22:26 * rwhitby is sitting in an airport - this IRC channel is the most fun around here ...
Jul 29 06:22:27 <mrvc-test> testing
Jul 29 06:22:36 <oc80z> ah wdup rw
Jul 29 06:23:01 <destinal> rwhitby: treo?
Jul 29 06:23:18 <oc80z> get your pachinko on rw
Jul 29 06:23:20 <rwhitby> destinal: nah, Adelaide airport has free wifi.
Jul 29 06:23:20 <oc80z> :D
Jul 29 06:23:41 <rwhitby> oc80z: I once was involved in an SoC project doing a chip for pachinko ...
Jul 29 06:24:08 <oc80z> haaa!
Jul 29 06:24:16 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: looks good -- pushing
Jul 29 06:24:26 <rwhitby> is matthewn from gitorious here?
Jul 29 06:24:28 <oc80z> so cool
Jul 29 06:25:05 <mrvc> Zuchmir, destinal: pushed
Jul 29 06:25:31 <Zuchmir2> fwiw this is down to 0.02 per draw
Jul 29 06:26:31 <destinal> so effectively 50fps?  that works.
Jul 29 06:26:41 * rwhitby enjoys seeing Terminal development happen in real-time in the channel.  That's exactly the type of thing this channel was created for ...
Jul 29 06:27:25 <oc80z> wha?
Jul 29 06:27:30 <oc80z> whats at 50fps?
Jul 29 06:27:35 <rwhitby> matthewn submits two patches, so gets commit rights.
Jul 29 06:27:40 <oc80z> Yeah rw
Jul 29 06:27:57 <destinal> oc80z: if it's down to 0.02 seconds per draw, that's 50 full draws per second, yes?
Jul 29 06:28:11 <destinal> well some may be partial, but anyway
Jul 29 06:28:15 <oc80z> ja
Jul 29 06:29:26 <mrvc> destinal: it seems slower than 50fps to me, but it is probably from time spent outside our code
Jul 29 06:30:01 <destinal> mrvc: true
Jul 29 06:30:20 <Zuchmir3> im looking @ output ...
Jul 29 06:30:57 <destinal> I keep thinking about this with an eye to games and other things that will care about performance, I think double buffering and a read blit function should help though, shouldn't it?
Jul 29 06:31:04 <Zuchmir3> and its faster than 0.01
Jul 29 06:31:21 <destinal> s/read/real/
Jul 29 06:31:46 <Zuchmir2> btw the same bug i had, if u type in the there more than the screen-width,  it scrolls a line for every char
Jul 29 06:31:56 <destinal> rwhitby: where did infobot go?
Jul 29 06:31:57 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: oops, I left some output
Jul 29 06:32:42 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: fixed
Jul 29 06:32:50 <oc80z> would any hiptop software help?
Jul 29 06:32:59 <oc80z> like the Terminal Monkey software?
Jul 29 06:33:04 <Zuchmir2> actually that was fatser than *0.02*
Jul 29 06:33:32 <rwhitby> destinal: infobot seems to be offline.
Jul 29 06:34:11 <mrvc> destinal: double-buffering reduces flicker, but doesn't help performance
Jul 29 06:35:20 <destinal> mrvc: depends on how slow or fast it is to draw unnecessarily
Jul 29 06:35:25 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: i think what destinal means, if u keep a copy of the "screen" and only change the needed updates, it would be faster
Jul 29 06:36:03 <destinal> ie we're rendering glyphs on every draw, if we're asked for a lot of draws and things haven't changed, we're wasting a lot of cycles
Jul 29 06:36:32 <tmzt> no cache?
Jul 29 06:36:42 <mrvc> destinal: maybe, but we don't know what is in our destination buffer
Jul 29 06:36:51 <tmzt> is it utf8 based
Jul 29 06:36:52 <tmzt> ?
Jul 29 06:36:56 <destinal> mrvc: that's why you overwrite it with the source buffer
Jul 29 06:37:04 <destinal> and the source buffer changes only when the screen does
Jul 29 06:37:20 <Zuchmir2> if top/bottom/left/right havnt changed... we can use existing buf
Jul 29 06:37:37 <destinal> Zuchmir2: that's not all
Jul 29 06:38:06 <destinal> if Luna makes a rectangle dirty that we had before but with only a small subsection of the screen, it still makes sense to blit it in from our source buffer when it requests it redrawn
Jul 29 06:38:48 <destinal> ie if we're partly covered with a pop up
Jul 29 06:38:52 <destinal> and then it goes away
Jul 29 06:38:54 <mrvc> destinal: well, yeah, if there are only a small number of changes on each draw -- if there are a lot of changes it would be slower
Jul 29 06:39:05 <tmzt> can we track what it considers dirty?
Jul 29 06:39:30 <destinal> tmzt: well it just messes up the buffer and then asks for parts of it drawn where needed
Jul 29 06:39:39 <tmzt> ah, ok
Jul 29 06:39:49 <tmzt> so it doesn't matter to us if we've changed it
Jul 29 06:39:56 <destinal> draw once blit many sounds a LOT faster
Jul 29 06:39:57 <tmzt> it still needs redrawn (or blitted)
Jul 29 06:39:58 <destinal> I don't know about you
Jul 29 06:40:09 <destinal> but for me it does
Jul 29 06:40:16 <tmzt> glyph cache would be even better
Jul 29 06:40:21 <tmzt> if pre doesn't have a shared one
Jul 29 06:40:22 <mrvc> destinal: since it would have to update most of the pixels and copy the buffer
Jul 29 06:40:34 <destinal> mrvc: why would it have to update most of the pixels?
Jul 29 06:40:37 <tmzt> anything in webkit source? the other implementations I've looked at had something like that
Jul 29 06:40:42 <mrvc> destinal: if there were a lot of changes
Jul 29 06:40:42 <destinal> I'm talking about a situation where the screen hasn't changed
Jul 29 06:40:47 <destinal> but luna is covering it up
Jul 29 06:40:57 <rwhitby> destinal: on Pre, you resize, not get covered with a pop-up, right?
Jul 29 06:41:05 <jauderho> oh one more thing from the meetup tonight
Jul 29 06:41:08 <destinal> rwhitby: we can get covered by menus
Jul 29 06:41:13 <jauderho> I asked chuq about nitro in webkit
Jul 29 06:41:13 <destinal> by alerts
Jul 29 06:41:16 <destinal> by notifications
Jul 29 06:41:20 <jauderho> not yet but coming soon.
Jul 29 06:41:28 <mrvc> destinal: for smooth operation, I would think minimizing the maximum time would be more important than minimizing the average time
Jul 29 06:41:43 <tmzt> it must resize as well as be invalidated
Jul 29 06:41:54 <tmzt> unless the compositor handles all that
Jul 29 06:41:57 <tmzt> which is unlikely
Jul 29 06:42:00 <destinal> mrvc: EXCEPT
Jul 29 06:42:11 <destinal> mrvc: there are some situations where luna goes NUTS with redraws
Jul 29 06:42:24 <destinal> mrvc: hit a menu and check out what happens to our draw events
Jul 29 06:42:36 <tris> wow, it's even down to 0.01 - 0.02 on my pre now
Jul 29 06:42:38 <tris> great work guys
Jul 29 06:42:41 <destinal> that's a clear double buffer situation
Jul 29 06:42:46 <destinal> or where one would win
Jul 29 06:43:16 <tmzt> is src buffer enough?
Jul 29 06:43:41 <destinal> well the dst buffer is luna's, src buffer is what we'd be adding
Jul 29 06:44:43 <oc80z> :D
Jul 29 06:44:47 <destinal> anyway I'm no expert with graphics, I just made some observations
Jul 29 06:44:55 * oc80z checky checky
Jul 29 06:44:57 <mrvc> destinal: it does do a lot of redraws
Jul 29 06:44:57 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: did u notice the issue with irc scrolling a line for every char added past bottom-right corner? (when typing)
Jul 29 06:44:58 <destinal> I'm not sure on the details
Jul 29 06:45:10 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: no
Jul 29 06:45:12 <destinal> but it's worth some research
Jul 29 06:45:19 <tmzt> carriage return without line feed?
Jul 29 06:45:20 <destinal> and some experimentation
Jul 29 06:45:27 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I'll try it
Jul 29 06:45:34 <tmzt> or something else, is setpos or whatever used?
Jul 29 06:45:46 <tmzt> sorry, the other way
Jul 29 06:45:48 <tmzt> just line feed
Jul 29 06:46:02 <Zuchmir2> it's very anoying trying to type a response or something there, because of that issue
Jul 29 06:46:28 <Zuchmir2> it's prob. a term issue
Jul 29 06:48:49 <destinal> rwhitby: with notifications that may technically be a resize
Jul 29 06:49:08 <destinal> but menus is a good example of being covered, I'll try and think of more
Jul 29 06:49:47 <Zuchmir2> ... umm, not sure if this is a bug or a feature....
Jul 29 06:50:11 <Zuchmir2> ... but now when u close the card, and reopen, u have the old history on your screen
Jul 29 06:50:39 <destinal> wow
Jul 29 06:50:40 <destinal> what?
Jul 29 06:51:00 <tmzt> from bash?
Jul 29 06:51:14 <Zuchmir2> close the terminal, then open it again
Jul 29 06:51:16 <tmzt> history or the screen contents?
Jul 29 06:51:28 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I'm not seeing an issue with scrolling
Jul 29 06:51:41 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: are you running with the larger or smaller font?
Jul 29 06:51:44 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: type a long message
Jul 29 06:51:57 <destinal> I can't hit escape and throw away the card, either
Jul 29 06:51:58 <destinal> in the emu
Jul 29 06:52:14 <Zuchmir2> ... that's wider than screen (in normal mode)
Jul 29 06:52:31 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: using the small font, it never gets to the right side
Jul 29 06:52:33 <destinal> that's bad, there's like no way out of this card in the emulator  (??)
Jul 29 06:52:37 <Zuchmir2> 8x8
Jul 29 06:52:40 <mrvc> hit home
Jul 29 06:52:43 <mrvc> destinal: hit home
Jul 29 06:52:58 <destinal> mrvc: ah, ok.  esc used to do that I think so that's what I was trying
Jul 29 06:53:16 <destinal> yeah it works with other cards just not term
Jul 29 06:53:33 <mrvc> I think esc is the back gesture
Jul 29 06:53:37 <destinal> oh
Jul 29 06:54:34 <Zuchmir2> looks like it's keeping the old obj, not destroying anything
Jul 29 06:54:37 <tmzt> 8x8? seems unusual
Jul 29 06:54:50 <tmzt> square font?
Jul 29 06:55:44 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I'm not seeing that behavior
Jul 29 06:56:29 <Zuchmir2> you typed a very wide response, that wrapped past the end of screen (a few letters past end)?
Jul 29 06:57:01 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I meant the closing/re-opening
Jul 29 06:57:06 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: trying with a smaller font
Jul 29 06:57:12 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: now
Jul 29 06:57:28 <mrvc> I mean larger
Jul 29 06:57:56 <destinal> Zuchmir2: close / reopen on emulator shows no issue like that, let me try pre
Jul 29 06:58:12 <Zuchmir2> hmm, CharBuffer::CharBuffer() doesn't clear rows any more
Jul 29 06:58:56 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yeah, it starts with a zero-size buffer new
Jul 29 06:59:02 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: so it isn't necessary
Jul 29 07:02:29 <Zuchmir2> hmm, i've trown away my card 5 times, each time it comes back the same way
Jul 29 07:04:07 <Zuchmir2> ok, now it's a new card!
Jul 29 07:04:11 <destinal> mrvc: are you sure it's zero size?
Jul 29 07:04:24 <destinal> do we force that?  what if the plugin is already running
Jul 29 07:04:57 <mrvc> destinal: it is initialized to zero in the constructor
Jul 29 07:05:12 <mrvc> destinal: it quickly gets changed once the window is set
Jul 29 07:05:50 <Zuchmir2> ouch, i now have back an old ghost....
Jul 29 07:05:59 <Zuchmir2> this is scary!
Jul 29 07:06:04 <destinal> remember this is not a monolithic executable
Jul 29 07:06:11 <mrvc-test> this is a long message
Jul 29 07:06:18 <destinal> there's only one instance of the plugin in memory
Jul 29 07:06:37 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I'm still not seeing an issue with scrolling
Jul 29 07:06:42 <Zuchmir2> i wonder if it's getting destroyed
Jul 29 07:06:45 <destinal> so globals will be preserved across multiple calls
Jul 29 07:07:04 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I only get about 2/3rds of the way across before it clears the line and puts the cursor at the beginning
Jul 29 07:07:04 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: i guess it's only my device that has the issue :-)
Jul 29 07:07:23 <Zuchmir2> maybe there's a setting
Jul 29 07:07:26 <destinal> Zuchmir2: it's got to be the code, not your device
Jul 29 07:07:43 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: are your stty cols being set properly?
Jul 29 07:07:52 <Zuchmir2> ... unless we are running 2 diff versions of ircii
Jul 29 07:08:06 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yeah, that is probably it
Jul 29 07:08:15 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I'm running it inside a debian jail
Jul 29 07:08:51 <Zuchmir2> i'm testing on the pre
Jul 29 07:09:02 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yeah, a debian jail on the pre
Jul 29 07:09:12 <destinal> I've got one too now
Jul 29 07:09:19 <tmzt> same TERM setting?
Jul 29 07:09:22 <Zuchmir2> ... could be that's why we are not seing the same thing when throwing away cards?
Jul 29 07:09:28 <destinal> a deb jail I mean
Jul 29 07:09:34 <tmzt> there are some tput tests that might be useful, not sure
Jul 29 07:09:35 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I don't see how
Jul 29 07:10:35 <Zuchmir2> Version (BitchX-1.1-final) -- Date (20040326).
Jul 29 07:11:02 <Zuchmir2> is that the same u r using?
Jul 29 07:11:24 <tris> just made a video of some of the emulation bugs i'm running into: http://flickr.com/tristanhorn/3767704815
Jul 29 07:11:41 <tris> (everything pretty much clears up with vt100 iirc)
Jul 29 07:11:44 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: how do you get the version?
Jul 29 07:11:52 <Zuchmir2> i'm throwing asway cards, 1 time it brings me the last card, somethims the card before that
Jul 29 07:11:56 <tris> the noise is new, though
Jul 29 07:12:01 <Zuchmir2> -v
Jul 29 07:12:45 <mrvc> ircII version 20050921
Jul 29 07:13:42 <destinal> the garbage at the top of bitchx is that it's ansi logo is getting mangled
Jul 29 07:13:49 <destinal> Zuchmir2: I can't reproduce the card thing either, at this point
Jul 29 07:14:01 <destinal> well never could, but yeah
Jul 29 07:14:22 <Zuchmir2> ok, could be a bug in this version: http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/stable/bitchx_1.1a-final-1_arm.ipk
Jul 29 07:14:36 <Zuchmir2> where did u get the 2005 version?
Jul 29 07:14:47 <destinal> Zuchmir2:  no I think our ansi rendering is broken.
Jul 29 07:14:57 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: apt-get install ircii
Jul 29 07:15:14 <destinal> BitchX is a good test target because it does extra ansi stuff
Jul 29 07:15:21 <destinal> mrvc: you should get it
Jul 29 07:16:12 <Zuchmir2> ok, i guess i'm the only with ghost cards :-)
Jul 29 07:16:51 <destinal> Zuchmir2: that's bizarre but has to be related to not clearing the values now
Jul 29 07:17:05 <destinal> just odd that it happens for you and not us
Jul 29 07:17:29 <Zuchmir2> i think mrvc is correct, we are clearing buffer when we resize
Jul 29 07:19:44 <destinal> bitchX's ansi drawing only looks proper on an 80 column term anyway
Jul 29 07:19:59 <destinal> just confirmed with evilvte sshing into the pre
Jul 29 07:23:03 <destinal> Zuchmir2: ok, I have to get to bed, you guys know how to push a new release on preware if you end up deciding to, yeah?
Jul 29 07:23:51 <destinal> if any issues we can always do one in the morning sometime
Jul 29 07:24:14 <mrvc> I gotta go to bed too
Jul 29 07:24:15 <Zuchmir2> i don't maybe mrvc does...
Jul 29 07:24:20 <Zuchmir2> good nite!
Jul 29 07:25:54 <destinal> night all
Jul 29 07:26:01 <mrvc> ok, see ya
Jul 29 07:26:12 <destinal> Zuchmir2: good luck with the exorcism, let us know if you figure it out
Jul 29 07:26:21 <Zuchmir2> :-)
Jul 29 07:26:44 <Zuchmir2> i did a fresh reboot, and same prob (after thrrowing away card)
Jul 29 07:26:54 <destinal> Zuchmir2: are you cross compiling?
Jul 29 07:27:13 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I just got it to happen
Jul 29 07:27:18 <destinal> ah, good
Jul 29 07:27:23 <destinal> nice when things can be reproduced
Jul 29 07:27:56 <destinal> the biggest thing to remember is the plugin spans being embedded, it doesn't get closed when a card closes
Jul 29 07:28:50 <destinal> and it will be one instance for multiple cards, also
Jul 29 07:29:00 <destinal> when we get that working with multiple simultaneously
Jul 29 07:29:29 <mrvc> yeah, this is weird
Jul 29 07:29:51 <destinal> it's part of the luna process, and luna keeps running
Jul 29 07:30:37 <destinal> so we probably need to create a class for a card / instance
Jul 29 07:30:43 <mrvc> destinal: yeah, but all our stuff is tied to an instance
Jul 29 07:30:45 <destinal> and destroy it on card destroy
Jul 29 07:30:59 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: you don't dlete _char_buf in ~Screen()
Jul 29 07:31:18 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: it isn't a pointer
Jul 29 07:31:20 <zinge> hey
Jul 29 07:31:36 <zinge> haven't been on here in about a month... How's it going?
Jul 29 07:31:56 <destinal> anyway still have to get to bed, I figure we just postpone a release and get it sorted
Jul 29 07:31:58 <Zuchmir2> ah, ok
Jul 29 07:32:18 <destinal> tomorrow or whenever works for everyone
Jul 29 07:32:56 <Zuchmir2> ok
Jul 29 07:33:05 <mrvc> yep, ok
Jul 29 07:33:05 <destinal> night
Jul 29 07:33:08 <mrvc> night
Jul 29 07:34:11 <Zuchmir2> night
Jul 29 07:37:28 <Zuchmir2> ok, i'm gonna go to sleep...
Jul 29 07:37:37 <mrvc> ok, see ya Zuchmir2
Jul 29 07:37:54 <Zuchmir2> night
Jul 29 08:00:32 <Decimation> anyone here have luck with the charcounter patch?
Jul 29 08:31:24 <plinder> Hy web OS people. I have a short question. I wanted to ask you, if someone knows the Telephone API for calls. I would be interested if there is an API for phone calls.
Jul 29 08:54:12 <Decimation> question... is a vnc app possible?
Jul 29 09:15:35 <plinder> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/VNC_(Virtual_Network_Computing) ;-)
Jul 29 09:20:15 <button> cool
Jul 29 11:21:53 <en0x> w00t
Jul 29 11:22:00 <en0x> i tried to install new app
Jul 29 11:22:04 <en0x> open table
Jul 29 11:22:13 <en0x> and osx is telling me that there is not enough memory
Jul 29 11:22:19 <en0x> s/osx/webos
Jul 29 11:24:43 <en0x> here is df: http://wklej.org/id/127569/
Jul 29 11:26:41 <blau-mikeDG> :(
Jul 29 11:29:35 <en0x> maybe i should use webdoctor
Jul 29 11:33:39 <en0x> blau-mikeDG: do you have to activate the phone after webos doctor use?
Jul 29 11:33:43 <en0x> it it will be fine?
Jul 29 11:36:26 <blau-mikeDG> ?
Jul 29 11:36:30 <blau-mikeDG> what do you mean activate
Jul 29 11:36:42 <blau-mikeDG> you do exactly what you did when you first bought the phone
Jul 29 11:36:48 <en0x> oh i see
Jul 29 11:36:53 <en0x> never did it so i'm asking
Jul 29 11:37:03 <blau-mikeDG> and then it downloads most of your settings through the palm profile
Jul 29 11:37:10 <en0x> yap right
Jul 29 11:37:10 <james_> you just fill in the blanks for your palm profile
Jul 29 11:37:18 <blau-mikeDG> not all, but most, you also lose eveyrthing on your /media/internal
Jul 29 11:37:35 <en0x> i have a copy of internal at home
Jul 29 11:37:38 <blau-mikeDG> so pictures and files are kaput
Jul 29 11:37:46 <en0x> all of my ringtones etc
Jul 29 11:37:51 <blau-mikeDG> yup
Jul 29 11:38:30 <blau-mikeDG> ok cool got auto updates for shortcuts in my app working!
Jul 29 11:38:33 <blau-mikeDG> release time i suppose
Jul 29 11:38:38 <en0x> hmm
Jul 29 11:39:02 <en0x> ok so it says connect your phone directly to your computer with usb cable I did that and the next button is not active
Jul 29 11:39:05 <en0x> :(
Jul 29 11:39:55 <blau-mikeDG> try rebooting your phone and keep it connected, there might be a driver ot install
Jul 29 11:40:00 <blau-mikeDG> i did mine on osx i think
Jul 29 11:40:01 <en0x> ok
Jul 29 11:40:07 <en0x> i'm doing under linux
Jul 29 11:41:15 <james_> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover
Jul 29 11:49:45 <blau-mikeDG> big pimping!
Jul 29 11:53:43 <blau-mikeDG> where are user apps stored?
Jul 29 11:55:45 <blau-mikeDG> found it
Jul 29 12:07:51 <en0x> hmnm where i get the drivers for linux?
Jul 29 12:34:09 <jtomawski> hmm
Jul 29 12:34:11 <en0x> http://wklej.org/id/127607/ that little shit webos doctor is not working
Jul 29 12:34:34 <blau-mikeDG> en0x: do you have a working phone, that you can use?
Jul 29 12:34:51 <en0x> yes
Jul 29 12:34:54 <en0x> but still
Jul 29 12:35:03 <en0x> why it dont want to work under linux?
Jul 29 12:35:38 <gkatsev> works for me... in fact, i couldnt get it to work under windows... lol
Jul 29 12:36:29 <en0x> do i have to put my phone into a dev mode?
Jul 29 12:39:06 <gkatsev> you shouldnt need to.
Jul 29 12:39:25 <en0x> gkatsev: so u got the webos doctor working under linux? what distro?
Jul 29 12:39:27 <gkatsev> connect it and tell the pre to just charge
Jul 29 12:39:38 <en0x> thats what Ive been doing
Jul 29 12:39:39 <gkatsev> en0x: im using ubuntu jaunty
Jul 29 12:40:04 <en0x> http://wstaw.org/d/241b
Jul 29 12:40:07 <en0x> and its sits on this
Jul 29 12:40:13 <en0x> next button doesnt become active
Jul 29 12:40:49 <gkatsev> yeah, thats what happened to me on windows...
Jul 29 12:40:50 <gkatsev> hm...
Jul 29 12:41:05 <en0x> and i'm using fedora 11
Jul 29 12:47:37 <atlanta> Morning all
Jul 29 12:47:46 <atlanta> !infobot goodmorning
Jul 29 12:47:53 <atlanta> infobot: goodmorning
Jul 29 12:51:28 <jcrawford> good morning everyone :D
Jul 29 12:57:19 <en0x> i'm giving up
Jul 29 12:57:25 <en0x> will do webos doctor at home
Jul 29 12:57:27 <en0x> on osx
Jul 29 12:58:16 <blau-mikeDG> going to post my first app to precentral
Jul 29 12:58:21 <blau-mikeDG> anyone wanna take a quick crack at it
Jul 29 12:58:30 <en0x> i cant install shit
Jul 29 13:00:35 <edwindoebler> i need help getting files off a pre that's rooted, but the touchscreen isn't working
Jul 29 13:00:47 <edwindoebler> can i enable disk mode from the command line?
Jul 29 13:01:45 <jcrawford> blau-mikeDG, what is the app?
Jul 29 13:01:58 <en0x> blau-mikeDG: what if i use full erease on pre?
Jul 29 13:02:04 <en0x> i need that stupid code for it to run
Jul 29 13:02:18 <en0x> or maybe not
Jul 29 13:02:19 <en0x> hmm
Jul 29 13:02:19 <en0x> ;]
Jul 29 13:06:48 <en0x> didnt help
Jul 29 13:06:52 <edwindoebler> so noone knows how to force disk mode?
Jul 29 13:13:20 <oc80z> hey now
Jul 29 13:13:23 <oc80z> mypre.com
Jul 29 13:14:54 <oc80z> Yo
Jul 29 13:14:57 <oc80z> opentable is online
Jul 29 13:15:08 <Epyon1> morning
Jul 29 13:15:14 <oc80z> yea Epyon1
Jul 29 13:15:30 * oc80z has a sick account with opentable
Jul 29 13:15:39 <Epyon1> whats opentable?
Jul 29 13:15:39 <oc80z> bunch of comps :D
Jul 29 13:15:43 <oc80z> new app in teh catalog
Jul 29 13:15:58 <oc80z> i got like $300 saved up in comps :PPP
Jul 29 13:16:30 <oc80z> umm
Jul 29 13:16:30 <oc80z> and
Jul 29 13:16:42 <oc80z> fliq bookmarks
Jul 29 13:16:42 <Rick__> that was weird.  I got up this morning and my phone had the lightning bolt on it.
Jul 29 13:16:42 <oc80z> :D
Jul 29 13:16:50 <Rick__> unplugged it and I got the plug thing
Jul 29 13:16:51 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 13:16:58 <raeb> thunderbolts and lightning
Jul 29 13:17:09 <en0x> hehe
Jul 29 13:17:11 <en0x> thats nothing
Jul 29 13:17:12 <Rick__> battery in and out and got plug thing again, and plugged it in and got lightning bolt.
Jul 29 13:17:18 <en0x> mine says that there is no more space :)
Jul 29 13:17:36 <Rick__> So, I figured I had to run doctor.  Loaded the doctor file onto the cpu and the damned phone booted.  :-/
Jul 29 13:17:38 <Rick__> weird.
Jul 29 13:17:45 <raeb> sure
Jul 29 13:17:46 <oc80z> i am going to write a delicious apps
Jul 29 13:17:53 <en0x> is /media/internal adjusted automatically?
Jul 29 13:17:56 <raeb> take your car to the mechanic, and it starts runnin smooth as you pull in the parking lot
Jul 29 13:17:58 <jcrawford> doo dee dahh i am bored
Jul 29 13:17:59 <oc80z> forget this heh
Jul 29 13:18:04 <en0x> like when you install a lot of apps etc will it shrink?
Jul 29 13:18:05 <Rick__> en0x how much space do you have in /var?
Jul 29 13:18:09 <jcrawford> oc80z, so are you really from the boston area?
Jul 29 13:18:14 <en0x> Rick__: 40mb left
Jul 29 13:18:14 <en0x> ;p
Jul 29 13:18:16 <oc80z> er yea
Jul 29 13:18:18 <jcrawford> and what is with that nickname :)
Jul 29 13:18:20 <Rick__> out of what?
Jul 29 13:18:26 <Epyon1> i ran out of room on opt it sucks
Jul 29 13:18:27 <en0x> free
Jul 29 13:18:30 <en0x> jcrawford: i'm too
Jul 29 13:18:31 <oc80z> *shrug*
Jul 29 13:18:35 <jcrawford> ohh
Jul 29 13:18:39 * jcrawford is from Lynn watchout haha
Jul 29 13:18:46 <en0x> braintree here
Jul 29 13:18:47 <en0x> :p
Jul 29 13:18:49 * jcrawford moved here unaware of the area
Jul 29 13:18:51 <Rick__> Palms ipkg won't install with more than 76% used.
Jul 29 13:18:54 <oc80z> yea?
Jul 29 13:19:01 <jcrawford> i want to move out of Lynn and eventually will
Jul 29 13:19:05 <oc80z> yikes
Jul 29 13:19:06 <en0x> Rick__: thats a bummer
Jul 29 13:19:07 <oc80z> why lynn?
Jul 29 13:19:17 <en0x> because he got no life
Jul 29 13:19:17 <Rick__> we need to work out a way to re-partition.
Jul 29 13:19:18 <en0x> ;]
Jul 29 13:19:25 <oc80z> why not brookline :D
Jul 29 13:19:36 <en0x> jew?
Jul 29 13:19:54 <jcrawford> oc80z, well we had an apt all set in Peabody but the landlord was a dick.  told us he was renovating the apt.  we gave him 1 month, he said yea it's done move on down.  we packed the uhaul made the move only to find he had done nothing to the apartment leaving us homeless
Jul 29 13:20:14 <jcrawford> we stayed with my fiances father for a few months so we could find a new place...  We could not be too picky about where it was heh
Jul 29 13:20:24 <oc80z> yikes
Jul 29 13:20:28 <en0x> lol
Jul 29 13:20:35 <oc80z> its all about boston.craigslist.org boss
Jul 29 13:20:38 <jcrawford> but we've been here for over a year now :)
Jul 29 13:20:44 <oc80z> get your ass to cambridge, or brookline
Jul 29 13:20:50 <oc80z> clean, and liberal.
Jul 29 13:20:57 <jcrawford> oc80z, that's where we found the initial apt we got screwed on
Jul 29 13:20:59 <oc80z> forget lynn, the city of sin.
Jul 29 13:21:02 <en0x> oc80z: i dont complain about braintree
Jul 29 13:21:12 <jcrawford> brb
Jul 29 13:21:52 <oc80z> yikes
Jul 29 13:21:53 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 13:21:56 <oc80z> anyways
Jul 29 13:21:58 <oc80z> mypre.com
Jul 29 13:22:02 <oc80z> has a skype app
Jul 29 13:22:30 <oc80z> http://www.shapeservices.com/en/products/details.php?product=skype&platform=webos
Jul 29 13:22:47 <en0x> yeah 10 bucks
Jul 29 13:22:49 <oc80z> there are alot of apps popping up off the app catalog , and off precentral
Jul 29 13:22:52 <oc80z> pfft
Jul 29 13:23:21 <oc80z> ill prolly buy that shit heh
Jul 29 13:23:41 <oc80z> *shrug*
Jul 29 13:23:47 <oc80z> is soemone developing a delicous app
Jul 29 13:24:59 <en0x> ppl still use delicious?
Jul 29 13:25:19 <en0x> i thought delicious is obsolete
Jul 29 13:25:19 <en0x> ;)
Jul 29 13:25:43 <en0x> oh
Jul 29 13:26:16 <oc80z> i use shareoholic extention for ah, firefo
Jul 29 13:26:21 <oc80z> er.. minefield.
Jul 29 13:27:41 <en0x> Rick__: but they use lvm so it should be easy to resize partitions
Jul 29 13:27:51 <edwindoebler> still nobody with an idea on how to force media mode? even from the terminal?
Jul 29 13:28:55 <blau-mikeDG> precentral is ass grrr
Jul 29 13:29:21 <atlanta> Dont know if i would like the IM+
Jul 29 13:29:23 <atlanta> its a webapp
Jul 29 13:29:53 <en0x> i'm waiting for real skype app
Jul 29 13:30:10 <atlanta> en0x: ditto
Jul 29 13:30:18 <blau-mikeDG> i dont udnerstand why i cant create a new thread in the homebrew section of precentral
Jul 29 13:30:22 <atlanta> kinda cheesy as a webapp
Jul 29 13:30:24 <jcrawford> oh god this is too much
Jul 29 13:30:25 <oc80z> edwindoebler i can look
Jul 29 13:30:46 <atlanta> blau-mikeDG: because if people had thread creation rights there would be all kind of unrelated threads there
Jul 29 13:30:46 <edwindoebler> oc80z: thanks. i've looked through initctrl but i can't see any service in there that might help
Jul 29 13:31:07 <jcrawford> my boss just had me watch a video of ted nugent talking about your right to defend yourself
Jul 29 13:31:09 <en0x> blau-mikeDG: talk to dieter
Jul 29 13:31:11 <atlanta> click the contact page i think and ask them for access
Jul 29 13:31:19 <jcrawford> he stated: I don't like repeat offenders... I like dead offenders
Jul 29 13:31:50 <blau-mikeDG> atlanta: ohh
Jul 29 13:32:05 <jcrawford> said he would rather the woman who got car jacked and killed in MA shot the offender, and that he wished the little old lady who got beat to death with a whiskey bottle in front of her grandchildren could have shot the guy dead
Jul 29 13:32:10 <jcrawford> too funny
Jul 29 13:32:14 <jcrawford> but who's to argue with that :D
Jul 29 13:32:35 <psykoz> ;)
Jul 29 13:32:38 <psykoz> Ted Nugent is hilarious
Jul 29 13:32:55 <jcrawford> hey lmorchard why am i getting emails about git merges when they have nothing to do with code i have done anything with :)
Jul 29 13:33:06 <atlanta> jcrawford: damn was this  recent? i havent been on the news lately
Jul 29 13:33:19 <lmorchard> jcrawford: I don't know?
Jul 29 13:33:24 <atlanta> jcrawford: same here on the git issue
Jul 29 13:33:30 <jcrawford> atlanta, not sure how recent those things were... but the video is pretty recent i believe
Jul 29 13:33:32 <atlanta> i got a request for merge and nothing was there
Jul 29 13:33:34 <psykoz> I love Anthony Bourdain's Texas episode where he visits Nugent
Jul 29 13:33:35 <lmorchard> I think it's a gitorious thing
Jul 29 13:33:44 <atlanta> jcrawford: link me
Jul 29 13:33:46 <lmorchard> I asked for a merge at one point, but rwhitby took care of it
Jul 29 13:33:56 <lmorchard> and then I deleted my cloned repo
Jul 29 13:34:01 <jcrawford> atlanta, waiting for it to come through email
Jul 29 13:34:05 <oc80z> is it in /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.usbpassthrough)-
Jul 29 13:34:09 <jcrawford> will once it is local here
Jul 29 13:34:15 <lmorchard> I think gitorious emails everyone on the project when a merge request comes in
Jul 29 13:34:15 <atlanta> ok ocol
Jul 29 13:34:21 <atlanta> oh ok
Jul 29 13:34:24 <lmorchard> jcrawford: Is that what you saw?
Jul 29 13:34:46 <jcrawford> yea just a merge email
Jul 29 13:34:51 <psykoz> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_aSglGw88U
Jul 29 13:35:15 <oc80z> yikes
Jul 29 13:35:17 <oc80z> 1 sec
Jul 29 13:36:06 <edwindoebler> oc80z: there has to be some way to force the phone into that state... i can't find it though
Jul 29 13:36:19 <oc80z> yeah
Jul 29 13:36:23 <oc80z> 1 sec
Jul 29 13:37:09 <en0x> Rick__: i think that there is a method to increase /var size and decrease /media/internal size
Jul 29 13:37:17 <en0x> Rick__: i will look deeper into it
Jul 29 13:39:35 <jcrawford> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY5x334fji8
Jul 29 13:39:38 <jcrawford> atlanta, that's the video
Jul 29 13:39:56 <atlanta> ok watching now
Jul 29 13:41:14 <psykoz> wow, I have never seen this clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5OkcRVs5ik
Jul 29 13:41:45 <psykoz> It's funny too because all the comments are calling Ted Nugent narrow-minded but Anthony Bourdain is agreeing with him, no one is bitching about Bourdain ;)
Jul 29 13:44:32 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 13:44:40 * oc80z copying every .png over to picasa
Jul 29 13:45:45 <atlanta> So one of the iphone fanboys just shut up when he tethered to my phone via his wifi
Jul 29 13:45:46 <atlanta> lol
Jul 29 13:45:46 <blau-mikeDG> png
Jul 29 13:46:04 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 13:46:52 <blau-mikeDG> if anyone is bored and wants to try my app before i post it on precentral
Jul 29 13:47:15 <oc80z> yea
Jul 29 13:47:24 * oc80z renames and posts as his own
Jul 29 13:48:04 <blau-mikeDG> lol
Jul 29 13:49:08 <raeb> i find it interesting that so many guuides on the wiki say to 'sudo' this and 'sudo -i' that, when the device doesn't even come stock with sudo
Jul 29 13:51:10 <atlanta> lol
Jul 29 13:51:39 <Epyon1> cause the device only has one user
Jul 29 13:51:45 <oc80z> should i post this?
Jul 29 13:51:46 <Epyon1> no need for sudo
Jul 29 13:51:47 <oc80z> like
Jul 29 13:51:54 <oc80z> targz all the .pngs on the device?
Jul 29 13:51:54 <raeb> exactly
Jul 29 13:52:00 <raeb> no need for sudo, yet all the guides say to sudo
Jul 29 13:54:52 <Epyon1> raeb if you want ur device to be secure when you do ssh and stuff you dont want to connect to root
Jul 29 13:55:35 <edwindoebler> oc80z: no luck on disk mode?
Jul 29 13:55:59 <Epyon1> brb
Jul 29 13:56:13 <raeb> epyon1: wha?
Jul 29 13:56:44 <raeb> epyon1: connecting as not root = more secure than connecting as root, why ?
Jul 29 13:59:04 <Epyon1> man kde4 really hates usbnet
Jul 29 13:59:23 <raeb> epyon1: connecting as not root = more secure than connecting as root, why ?
Jul 29 14:00:01 <oc80z> i am still looking
Jul 29 14:00:01 <Epyon1> raeb cause if you have root access to a sys you are god for that sys
Jul 29 14:00:11 <raeb> so?
Jul 29 14:00:13 <oc80z> /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.dataimport)
Jul 29 14:00:14 <Epyon1> but if your just a regular user your not
Jul 29 14:00:18 <oc80z> err
Jul 29 14:00:46 <raeb> i dont see whats wrong with being a god user
Jul 29 14:00:58 <Epyon1> cause if somone else is a god user and not you
Jul 29 14:01:03 <raeb> who else
Jul 29 14:01:12 <Epyon1> idk somone you dont want to be
Jul 29 14:01:12 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 14:01:15 <edwindoebler> raeb: if you're just looking around in a system as a normal user, then you have less of a chance of deleting something important
Jul 29 14:01:19 <raeb> ah ha
Jul 29 14:01:25 <raeb> so its a protection against my own stupidity
Jul 29 14:01:29 <edwindoebler> raeb: if you really need to do something important, sudo
Jul 29 14:01:33 <edwindoebler> raeb: yes!
Jul 29 14:01:35 <raeb> i think the solution for that is training
Jul 29 14:01:48 <raeb> don't put a brick under the accellerator, instead teach your kid to drive slow
Jul 29 14:02:41 <edwindoebler> raeb: one solution, sure. but try doing (dont') rm -rf / as a normal user, most of the time the system won't get borked and you'd just lose user data.  rm -rf / as root, and no warning, everything is gone.
Jul 29 14:03:18 <blau-mikeDG> but sudo doesnt protect you from dropping your phone in the toilet
Jul 29 14:03:22 <blau-mikeDG> so....
Jul 29 14:03:31 <raeb> ok, "rm -rf /" says "you must be root" so i "sudo rm -rf /" and i still delete everything
Jul 29 14:03:33 <raeb> wheres the protection
Jul 29 14:03:40 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 14:03:43 <oc80z> is it not mediaserver?
Jul 29 14:03:46 <raeb> a gun has a safety, doesn't mean you still won't blow your head off
Jul 29 14:04:06 <oc80z> what is /usr/bin/mediaserver
Jul 29 14:04:28 <raeb> so i guess, if a newb user sees 'you must be root', i'd hope they'd say, hmmm why does this operation require root
Jul 29 14:04:33 <raeb> rather than just sudo'ing and calling it a day
Jul 29 14:04:51 <edwindoebler> raeb: but, if you're not thinking straight when you type it the first time, it's a little safety catch
Jul 29 14:05:10 <raeb> until you get in the habit of sudo'ing before every command
Jul 29 14:05:19 <raeb> sudo ls
Jul 29 14:05:22 <en0x> who is managin ipkg-opt?
Jul 29 14:05:30 <en0x> repo
Jul 29 14:05:35 <raeb> en0x: rwhitby and eno
Jul 29 14:05:41 <en0x> gcc is borked
Jul 29 14:05:41 <edwindoebler> raeb: i think the tutorials assume more of a linux background than they should
Jul 29 14:06:09 <Epyon1> and a slight programing background
Jul 29 14:06:24 <edwindoebler> true.
Jul 29 14:06:30 <Epyon1> i know if i try and patch somthing it would never work so i just would do it manually
Jul 29 14:06:33 <raeb> edwindoebler: i agree, newbs setting up sudo without realizing what sudo is for
Jul 29 14:06:40 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 14:06:47 <raeb> "oh i gotta sudo for this command, but i dont know why"
Jul 29 14:07:11 <Epyon1> should pass out ubuntu and make them use it for 6 months b4 they start working with the pre
Jul 29 14:07:42 <raeb> even on ubuntu, i sudo -s lol
Jul 29 14:07:49 <edwindoebler> Epyon1: hell that won't work. my grandmother can work ubuntu... at the top of the webos-internals.org page should be "go install gentoo to learn linux"
Jul 29 14:08:22 <raeb> no premodding until you've compiled your own kernel
Jul 29 14:08:28 <Epyon1> edwindoebler: well yeah gentoo was a fun install did it for the first time like 6 months ago and i love it
Jul 29 14:08:55 <edwindoebler> Epyon1: i use it on everything here.  the install pretty much forces you to learn the command line
Jul 29 14:09:51 <Epyon1> edwindoebler: yeah it does and how to manipulate the linux system chroot and such
Jul 29 14:11:11 <oc80z> /usr/bin/luna-prefs-service
Jul 29 14:11:29 <edwindoebler> oc80z: rebooting phone, i'll look at that
Jul 29 14:11:34 <oc80z> might be it
Jul 29 14:11:58 <jcrawford> oc80z, or en0x you guys know of any PHP Developer positions open?
Jul 29 14:12:07 <oc80z> hrm
Jul 29 14:12:09 <edwindoebler> great... now novacomd won't see the phone
Jul 29 14:12:16 <oc80z> ah yeah jc
Jul 29 14:12:31 <oc80z> i wrote an job harvester
Jul 29 14:12:48 <oc80z> if u want to harvest job postings for PHP Web Developer , off boston.craigslist
Jul 29 14:13:02 <Epyon1> uh oh
Jul 29 14:13:13 <oc80z> compiles 35 to 75 emails,
Jul 29 14:13:21 <oc80z> mass bcc: your resume
Jul 29 14:14:20 <jcrawford> oc80z, that would be sweet
Jul 29 14:14:23 <jcrawford> where cna i get it :)
Jul 29 14:14:44 <blau-mikeDG> i want a webos developer position
Jul 29 14:15:34 <edwindoebler> how do you do an 'erase' reset just with the buttons on the phone?
Jul 29 14:15:39 <Epyon1> ooo get paid to sit in this chat room all day and mess with my pre
Jul 29 14:15:39 <oc80z> shit ah
Jul 29 14:15:47 <Epyon1> wait i do that already
Jul 29 14:15:58 <oc80z> i can compile you a list or u can run teh script if i paste bin it
Jul 29 14:16:25 <blau-mikeDG> Epona!
Jul 29 14:16:34 <blau-mikeDG> thats all i see when i see epyon
Jul 29 14:16:44 <jcrawford> either would work for me :)
Jul 29 14:20:26 <oc80z> update your resume
Jul 29 14:20:29 <oc80z> ill do it by tonight or so
Jul 29 14:20:48 <oc80z> still trying to figure out how to force mediasync
Jul 29 14:21:41 <oc80z> /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc.0/gadget/gadget-lun0
Jul 29 14:21:45 <atlanta> oc80z: whats the task?
Jul 29 14:21:52 <oc80z> force mediasync mode
Jul 29 14:22:07 <atlanta> oh ok
Jul 29 14:22:12 <oc80z> its not just echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc.0/gadget/gadget-lun0/mediasync_mode
Jul 29 14:22:14 <oc80z> i hope not heh
Jul 29 14:22:20 <atlanta> lmfao
Jul 29 14:24:24 <jcrawford> oc80z, my resume is up to date :) No problem if you cannot get to it anytime soon :)
Jul 29 14:24:41 <jcrawford> I am working for a company now but under contract and no guarantee it will go permanent
Jul 29 14:26:39 <edwindoebler> oc80z: did you try that command? i'm still working on resetting the phone
Jul 29 14:26:53 <oc80z> dunno
Jul 29 14:26:54 <oc80z> im lookn
Jul 29 14:27:02 <oc80z> i should just find
Jul 29 14:27:04 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 14:32:17 <oc80z> hang loose
Jul 29 14:32:40 <oc80z> ok found that
Jul 29 14:33:57 <oc80z> when you press teh media sync button it forks over "imasq"
Jul 29 14:34:04 <oc80z> is this non-disclosure
Jul 29 14:35:16 <edwindoebler> ok?
Jul 29 14:35:52 <oc80z> ./storagealert/storagealert-scene.html:                <div class="palm-notification-button" id="imasq"><span x-mojo-loc=''>Media Sync</span>
Jul 29 14:39:40 <oc80z> ok
Jul 29 14:39:43 <oc80z> its cool
Jul 29 14:39:53 <oc80z> aint this in the sdk manual?
Jul 29 14:41:40 <oc80z> its the MSM section
Jul 29 14:41:48 <oc80z> this code flows.
Jul 29 14:41:56 <oc80z> The PalmPre's CPU runs netbooks.
Jul 29 14:42:12 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 14:42:28 <oc80z> the fps was recorded at like 50fps last night?
Jul 29 14:42:44 <blau-mikeDG> just put my app up whehee
Jul 29 14:42:46 <oc80z> for that note, destinal-zzzz the ipkg update didnet like the new term
Jul 29 14:42:48 <blau-mikeDG> anyone wanna test? http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1788855#post1788855
Jul 29 14:42:50 <oc80z> blau-mikeDG woot
Jul 29 14:44:47 <oc80z> yeya
Jul 29 14:45:39 <oc80z> edwindoebler
Jul 29 14:46:24 <qinray> Full version of webOS Doctor v1.1.0 can download now
Jul 29 14:47:29 <FreeTim3> Mike does it allow editing of shortcuts earlier created ?
Jul 29 14:47:50 <blau-mikeDG> no, have to delete and re enter, im looking into that though
Jul 29 14:47:58 <blau-mikeDG> dont think its possible, but im hoping im wrong
Jul 29 14:48:17 <FreeTim3> ok that will work.  :)
Jul 29 14:48:18 <blau-mikeDG> i could do a work around for shortcuts my app created
Jul 29 14:48:37 <oc80z> Configuring com.palm.app.dgquickcut
Jul 29 14:48:42 <blau-mikeDG> but thats a lower priority than finding out how to actually edit
Jul 29 14:49:22 <blau-mikeDG> id love it if you guys wanted to work on finding shortcuts
Jul 29 14:50:06 <edwindoebler> alright echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc.0/gadget/gadget-lun0/mediasync_mode does nothing
Jul 29 14:50:08 <edwindoebler> even with mediasync_vendor set to 000
Jul 29 14:50:27 <oc80z> cool Q
Jul 29 14:50:34 <edwindoebler> oc80z: yes?
Jul 29 14:50:50 <blau-mikeDG> ncie comment oc80z
Jul 29 14:50:52 <oc80z> i think look at /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/controllers/bar-assistant.js
Jul 29 14:51:00 <oc80z> look for MSM
Jul 29 14:51:12 <oc80z> heh blau
Jul 29 14:54:06 <oc80z> updated automatically, ejeet.
Jul 29 14:54:13 <blau-mikeDG> lunch time
Jul 29 14:54:15 <blau-mikeDG> 5 guys mmmm
Jul 29 14:54:21 <en0x> if i copy all the database files from my pre and do webos doctor restore can i copy the database file back and reboot and everything will be all fiene?
Jul 29 14:54:25 <en0x> fine*
Jul 29 14:54:46 <oc80z> what database files? just curious
Jul 29 14:54:59 <en0x> sms
Jul 29 14:55:03 <blau-mikeDG> en0x: not that im aware
Jul 29 14:55:11 <en0x> the one that it stores sms
Jul 29 14:55:17 <blau-mikeDG> i know why my specific apps, the database files have different names
Jul 29 14:55:19 <oc80z> dunno
Jul 29 14:55:27 <blau-mikeDG> the directories they are in are the same
Jul 29 14:55:32 <blau-mikeDG> but they get named differently
Jul 29 14:55:38 <en0x> :S
Jul 29 14:55:38 <blau-mikeDG> although i think the names are stored in a database
Jul 29 14:55:45 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: what's the point of the contact name field when creating a dialing shortcut? does it show up anywhere?
Jul 29 14:56:17 <blau-mikeDG> wil: i couldnt get it to work without dumping some random data in there
Jul 29 14:56:22 <blau-mikeDG> ive never seen it anywhere
Jul 29 14:56:29 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: ok cool
Jul 29 14:56:36 <blau-mikeDG> so i put mike dg is my friend :)
Jul 29 14:56:48 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: can you make the number field default to numeric values only?
Jul 29 14:57:22 <blau-mikeDG> ooo thats going in my today list
Jul 29 14:58:55 <blau-mikeDG> doh, ive created quite the pain with that download from web thing
Jul 29 14:59:06 <blau-mikeDG> i have to figure out how to debug without my stuff getting overwritten :(
Jul 29 14:59:34 <blau-mikeDG> when i edit the shortcuts
Jul 29 14:59:57 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: does it do a check for new shortcuts everytime you launch the app?
Jul 29 15:00:32 <blau-mikeDG> will: yeah, but it just pulls down the entire file, it was easier and its small
Jul 29 15:00:50 <WillJitsu> cool
Jul 29 15:01:01 <blau-mikeDG> it does 3 steps, pull the default file, pull from the depot, pull from the web, if it pulled from the web, then store in the depot
Jul 29 15:01:19 <blau-mikeDG> in my testing its been fst enough to not notice the list possibly changing
Jul 29 15:02:02 <WillJitsu> sounds good
Jul 29 15:02:55 <blau-mikeDG> lunh time, ill be back soon, and hopefully with a fix or two :) or maybe new shortcut
Jul 29 15:03:10 <jcrawford> so blau-mikeDG what is the app you released?
Jul 29 15:03:51 <blau-mikeDG> it lets you create a few launcher shortcuts, right now theres only 4, plus the copy function (which i use to make universal search a little better)
Jul 29 15:04:24 <jcrawford> nice i will install now :D
Jul 29 15:05:57 <oc80z> im bout to go to the pool
Jul 29 15:06:38 <atlanta> oc80z:
Jul 29 15:06:41 <atlanta> whats your loco
Jul 29 15:06:48 <oc80z> beantown
Jul 29 15:06:55 <atlanta> hot up there today
Jul 29 15:06:56 <atlanta> ?
Jul 29 15:06:57 <atlanta> ?
Jul 29 15:07:04 <oc80z> muggy heh
Jul 29 15:07:39 <atlanta> same here in Florida
Jul 29 15:07:46 <atlanta> already hot as crap outside
Jul 29 15:08:08 <gkatsev> thankfully i have AC at work, otherwise id have been melted by now
Jul 29 15:08:16 <Epyon1> its like over cast here in dc and like 85% humidity
Jul 29 15:08:17 <Epyon1> ugh
Jul 29 15:08:40 <jcrawford> blau-mikeDG, you work for palm?
Jul 29 15:08:43 <gkatsev> yeah, himidity--
Jul 29 15:08:45 <jcrawford> why would you release under the palm domain?
Jul 29 15:08:50 <jcrawford> and not your own
Jul 29 15:09:07 <jcrawford> muggy as hell the last few days near beantown :D
Jul 29 15:09:34 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 15:09:45 <gkatsev> jcrawford: you in boston?
Jul 29 15:10:11 <jcrawford> wtf is the commanbd to install an ipk?
Jul 29 15:10:21 <oc80z> ipkg-opt
Jul 29 15:10:22 <jcrawford> ipkg /var install com.blah.ipk?
Jul 29 15:10:25 <gkatsev> ipkg install /path/to/ipk?
Jul 29 15:10:25 <oc80z> ?
Jul 29 15:10:30 <jcrawford> gkatsev, close to boston, Lynn
Jul 29 15:10:33 <gkatsev> er, ipkg-opt
Jul 29 15:10:37 <drnull> jcrawford: blau-mikeDG said in the post why it's released under the palm domain: "It requires the com.palm.app naming convention in order to access the list of current shortcuts"
Jul 29 15:10:40 <gkatsev> jcrawford: i live in newton, work in boston
Jul 29 15:11:01 <jcrawford> i tried ipkg-opt install /var and ipkg-opt /var install keeps complaining :)
Jul 29 15:11:05 <jcrawford> gkatsev, cool
Jul 29 15:11:17 <drnull> the install command, I'm fairly certain, is ipkg -o /var /path/to/ipk if you're installing an application.  Otherwise you can't uninstall it (through the gui)
Jul 29 15:11:19 <jcrawford> gkatsev, if you know of any php developer positions hook me up :)
Jul 29 15:11:26 <jcrawford> ah the damn -o is what i forgot :D
Jul 29 15:11:29 <drnull> aye
Jul 29 15:11:33 <oc80z> alias iinstall="sudo /usr/bin/ipkg -o /var install"
Jul 29 15:11:34 <gkatsev> jcrawford: heh, nope, sorry
Jul 29 15:12:35 <jcrawford> installed blau-mikeDG will check it out in a few
Jul 29 15:13:23 <gkatsev> jcrawford: you installed blau-mikeDG?
Jul 29 15:13:34 <gkatsev> jcrawford: is that similar to installing linux on a dead badger?
Jul 29 15:13:38 <Epyon1> haha
Jul 29 15:13:57 <jcrawford> :D
Jul 29 15:14:28 <jcrawford> so someone should create a boston user group for webos development :)
Jul 29 15:14:32 <gkatsev> jcrawford: lets go find some roadkill and take over boston. then put it in a giant bubble with a giant centrail air
Jul 29 15:14:44 <gkatsev> s/centrail/central/
Jul 29 15:14:44 <infobot> gkatsev meant: jcrawford: lets go find some roadkill and take over boston. then put it in a giant bubble with a giant central air
Jul 29 15:14:44 * jcrawford doesn't have the time to coordinate something like that
Jul 29 15:15:05 <gkatsev> thats awesome, i with every channel had that
Jul 29 15:15:13 <jcrawford> yea that is awesome :)
Jul 29 15:15:35 <gkatsev> s/awesome,/awesome!!!/
Jul 29 15:15:35 <infobot> gkatsev meant: thats awesome!!! i with every channel had that
Jul 29 15:15:44 <gkatsev> s/with/wish
Jul 29 15:15:57 <gkatsev> aww, oh well
Jul 29 15:15:59 <gkatsev> lol
Jul 29 15:16:00 <Epyon1> whats with info bot telling us the thing that he said
Jul 29 15:16:04 <gkatsev> ill stop playing with the infobot
Jul 29 15:16:18 <Epyon1> ohhh
Jul 29 15:16:20 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 15:16:24 <gkatsev> Epyon1: i was correcting myself and infobot was putting replacement in
Jul 29 15:16:53 <oc80z> we have an info bot here
Jul 29 15:17:04 <oc80z> if u guys are from bostn
Jul 29 15:17:10 <oc80z> i recomend efnet's #redsox
Jul 29 15:17:56 <gkatsev> not that big of a sports fan
Jul 29 15:19:03 <oc80z> shokr
Jul 29 15:20:42 <oc80z> im gunna go sailer dive
Jul 29 15:21:06 <oc80z> heh, im gunna be sleepin @ work tonight ;_;
Jul 29 15:21:39 * jcrawford liked redsox but not efnet
Jul 29 15:23:58 <gkatsev> lol
Jul 29 15:24:24 <gkatsev> well, i like the redsox, but not enough to join an irc chat about them, lol
Jul 29 15:24:29 <oc80z> :-O
Jul 29 15:26:17 <edwindoebler> bah i've got nothin
Jul 29 15:28:10 <oc80z> heh
Jul 29 15:28:12 <oc80z> edwindoebler?
Jul 29 15:28:19 <edwindoebler> yeah
Jul 29 15:28:24 <oc80z> nothin what
Jul 29 15:28:25 <oc80z> http://obeygiant.com/
Jul 29 15:29:21 <edwindoebler> now, i've got my pre into a state where novacomd won't recognize it... and i can't turn developer mode back on
Jul 29 15:30:13 <Epyon1> ouch
Jul 29 15:30:20 <edwindoebler> nevermind, developer mode is on... but novacomd won't see it when it's attatched
Jul 29 15:30:20 <Epyon1> sounds like a hard reset time
Jul 29 15:30:41 <edwindoebler> yeah, and hard reset erases the things i want on the usb drive...
Jul 29 15:30:58 <Epyon1> you cant access the usb drive?
Jul 29 15:31:06 <Rick_> power cycle it and see if you can get the usb to respond
Jul 29 15:31:28 <oc80z> yea thats all
Jul 29 15:31:30 <edwindoebler> usb drive comes up, but i can't press the button b/c the screen won't accept touch input
Jul 29 15:31:31 <jcrawford> oc80z, what do you do for work?
Jul 29 15:33:18 <edwindoebler> so yeah, i'm pretty much screwed. i can't find any combination on the keypad that will select either media sync, or usb mode
Jul 29 15:38:34 <gkatsev> edwindoebler: can you ssh into it or something?
Jul 29 15:38:44 <edwindoebler> gkatsev: nope, wifi is off...
Jul 29 15:38:58 <gkatsev> and sshing into it over evdo is not setup...
Jul 29 15:38:58 <edwindoebler> and i didn't set it up for evdo, even if i did... i've swapped esn's already
Jul 29 15:39:10 <gkatsev> ouch
Jul 29 15:39:32 <gkatsev> i guess you could probably go to a store and see if they can get the data for you, maybe
Jul 29 15:40:12 <edwindoebler> i don't know if they have any tools that we don't via the sdk
Jul 29 15:41:07 <gkatsev> woudnt hurt to try, would it?
Jul 29 15:41:39 <edwindoebler> well, that and i'm 2.5 hrs away from a corporate store... yuck.
Jul 29 15:42:24 <gkatsev> ah... hm...
Jul 29 15:42:58 <edwindoebler> eh i give up, it was mostly pictures. some are backed up, but not all... my own fault for not making sure i had copies on a pc
Jul 29 15:45:21 <thatdude> Hello everyone!
Jul 29 15:45:31 <atlanta> edwindoebler: what did you do to do taht
Jul 29 15:45:33 <atlanta> so i dont do it
Jul 29 15:45:47 <blau-mikeDG> anyone got a code snippet to differentiate between emualtor and device?
Jul 29 15:46:11 <blau-mikeDG> i always see it and when i see it, i dont need it, now i cnt find it and need it
Jul 29 15:48:19 <en0x> http://pstraghi.blox.pl/resource/megan_fox_gq_02.jpg who is this? :> anyone knows i do
Jul 29 15:49:32 <blau-mikeDG> mmmm
Jul 29 15:49:47 <blau-mikeDG> and i didnt even look at it yet
Jul 29 15:49:51 <en0x> [;
Jul 29 15:49:55 <en0x> regret it
Jul 29 15:50:07 <raeb> en0x: its jacked up thumb lady
Jul 29 15:50:18 <blau-mikeDG> its transformers girl
Jul 29 15:50:21 <raeb> she got a toe for a thumb
Jul 29 15:50:31 <raeb> google megan fox thumb, you'll see
Jul 29 15:50:51 <blau-mikeDG> google images megan fox gq for the full set
Jul 29 15:51:23 <gkatsev> megan fox is hot
Jul 29 15:51:25 <gkatsev> lol
Jul 29 15:51:26 <en0x> raeb: wtf man ;( now i dont like her
Jul 29 15:51:27 <en0x> ;(
Jul 29 15:51:32 <raeb> rofl
Jul 29 15:52:30 <raeb> mornin, hops
Jul 29 15:52:36 <hopspitfire> Hey raeb
Jul 29 15:56:56 <Epyon1> wheres the wiki for destinals and all their terminal
Jul 29 15:57:42 <Rick_> www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jul 29 15:58:08 <Epyon1> you need to link that up on the main pages
Jul 29 15:58:24 <Epyon1> nvm i see where it is
Jul 29 15:58:35 <Rick_> we need a "featured article"  section. It'slinked, I promise.
Jul 29 16:00:32 <thatdude> Yikes, it does look like a toe
Jul 29 16:01:12 <thatdude> Wow I am all late with Megan Fox.  You guys already chatting about webos-internals :/
Jul 29 16:01:19 * thatdude needs to speed it up
Jul 29 16:03:45 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: is it possible to add contact icons for the dialer shortcuts or are we stuck with the phone icon?
Jul 29 16:05:48 <blau-mikeDG> i havent looked into that yet but its something i was considering
Jul 29 16:06:04 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: ok cool
Jul 29 16:06:15 <blau-mikeDG> do you know if the pictures are stored anywhere as simple files?
Jul 29 16:07:07 <blau-mikeDG> found a bug where the text of a field was being set to the hint text if you left it blank, woops
Jul 29 16:08:25 <blau-mikeDG> and that solved my issue with the instant dial shortcut, now if you leave the contact name blank
Jul 29 16:08:41 <blau-mikeDG> now you can leave the contact name blank, or itll show the contact name in the dialer app when you call that number
Jul 29 16:10:08 <blau-mikeDG> just added dev mode switcher, ill upload it to my web server soon :)
Jul 29 16:12:21 <WillJitsu> do we need to redownload the app itself to update the bug fixes?
Jul 29 16:12:44 <WillJitsu> and I'm not sure if those pics are stored anywhere as files
Jul 29 16:13:08 <blau-mikeDG> yeah, ill post the updated one tonight, itll still work with the new shortcut file though, and ill note in the description full functionality requires the latest ver
Jul 29 16:13:34 <blau-mikeDG> ill look into how the contacts app handles that stuff
Jul 29 16:14:13 <WillJitsu> sounds good
Jul 29 16:14:33 <bsiegel> Hey folks, what is needed to get involved with the project at Gitorious?
Jul 29 16:14:53 <bsiegel> I have a service in my github that I would like to link up
Jul 29 16:18:46 <hopspitfire> Terminal 0.1.5 is dead sexy
Jul 29 16:24:53 <thatdude> Can Meta Viewport be use on any WebOS app?
Jul 29 16:25:08 <blau-mikeDG> upload new shortcut file
Jul 29 16:25:20 <thatdude> Or it's only specifically for the Browser
Jul 29 16:27:17 <Epyon1> hard resetting my phone
Jul 29 16:29:31 <WillJitsu> blau-mikeDG: nice on the Phone Prefs shortcut :) I use that often.
Jul 29 16:29:45 <blau-mikeDG> yeah me too :)
Jul 29 16:29:54 <blau-mikeDG> im happy the seamless download worked as well :)
Jul 29 16:30:03 <Epyon1> well...that didnt do what i thought it was gonna do
Jul 29 16:30:53 <blau-mikeDG> i suppose i should work on a News or notifications thing. Once theres a ton of shortcuts, people won't even notice a new one
Jul 29 16:33:10 <Epyon1> well... didnt do at all what i wanted how can i bring the pre back to its factory state
Jul 29 16:33:16 <i700plus> anyone out there?
Jul 29 16:33:54 <hopspitfire> i700plus: yup
Jul 29 16:34:30 <i700plus> nice, last night i came in here and the place was dead!
Jul 29 16:34:40 <bougyman> Epyon1: it's on the wiki under recovery
Jul 29 16:34:48 <bougyman> you need windows, atm.
Jul 29 16:35:15 <Epyon1> ugh
Jul 29 16:35:28 <bougyman> you install some Doctor and hook up usb and watch it restore for like 11 minutes
Jul 29 16:35:40 * bougyman has been there
Jul 29 16:35:46 <Epyon1> well my phone works
Jul 29 16:35:52 <Epyon1> i jsut watnt to reformat
Jul 29 16:36:00 <i700plus> and then you hope that data is provissioned on the device or you need to have your MSL to reset your vison profile
Jul 29 16:36:16 <Epyon1> what?
Jul 29 16:36:34 <Epyon1> oh
Jul 29 16:36:43 <hopspitfire> Epyon1: if you cannot connect to your network, contact sprint for your MSL
Jul 29 16:36:58 <i700plus> after i restored my factory OS on my phone and it came up it asks you to login to your palm profile, well it wouldnt let me login because i didnt have EV access. I had to go into the dialer and do ##786# and hit reset at the bottom to reset my profile
Jul 29 16:37:02 <Epyon1> ugh for once winmobile was ez'er
Jul 29 16:37:30 <blau-mikeDG> oh crikey
Jul 29 16:37:32 <blau-mikeDG> that sucks
Jul 29 16:37:37 <i700plus> true but it also "Ran" like windows... weird errors random crashing
Jul 29 16:37:37 <Epyon1> yeah
Jul 29 16:37:38 <hopspitfire> anyone, how does the gestures works for Terminal?
Jul 29 16:37:39 <blau-mikeDG> we can loginto this phone without EV can we?
Jul 29 16:37:45 <hopspitfire> do*
Jul 29 16:37:56 <i700plus> you cant login to the phone without data if it is not set up
Jul 29 16:38:15 <blau-mikeDG> there go my dreams of using it as a pda when i give up on sprint
Jul 29 16:38:15 <blau-mikeDG> :(
Jul 29 16:38:19 <i700plus> it will say go into a coverage area, it wont even let you setup wifi or go anywhere else but the dialer
Jul 29 16:38:20 <Epyon1> isnt there a hack to set it up for wifi
Jul 29 16:38:21 <Technobabble> hospit, hold down the gesture area so it lights up
Jul 29 16:38:24 <Technobabble> then use the keypad
Jul 29 16:38:37 <Technobabble> 2 for up, 8 for down, and so on
Jul 29 16:38:45 <i700plus> @Epyon1 i hope... that would be nice
Jul 29 16:39:15 <Epyon1> i700plus im pretty sure there is saw it somwhere
Jul 29 16:39:18 <i700plus> im running irssi on a ssh window on my palm pre right now because work blocks IRC connections haha
Jul 29 16:39:24 <Epyon1> haha
Jul 29 16:39:25 <hopspitfire> Technobabble: it seems to not allow any keys after I hold the gesture area, only Return
Jul 29 16:39:33 <Epyon1> does freenode have any other ports?
Jul 29 16:39:59 <Epyon1> thats how i used to get around it at school gamesurge had 6667 6668 and 6669
Jul 29 16:40:09 <Epyon1> so  i just used one that wasnt 6667
Jul 29 16:40:55 <i700plus> my work blacks all ports that are not approved... i work in IT but security controls the "websense" server
Jul 29 16:41:01 <i700plus> *blocks
Jul 29 16:41:14 <Epyon1> ew websense
Jul 29 16:41:15 <bougyman> openvpn on port 443
Jul 29 16:41:18 <bougyman> no one can block that.
Jul 29 16:41:26 <bougyman> i do so when behind restrictive settings.
Jul 29 16:41:32 <Epyon1> yeah hamachi if it can get through
Jul 29 16:41:41 <Epyon1> then you just make an ssh tunnel
Jul 29 16:41:48 <bougyman> i've never seen anyone successfully block 443 outbound.
Jul 29 16:41:53 <bougyman> i can't do it, heh.
Jul 29 16:42:03 <bougyman> if you allow https, you have to allow TCP CONNECT on 443
Jul 29 16:42:07 <i700plus> thats how i ssh into my pre, i use port 443 at work, i actually like using the pre terminal for irc chat
Jul 29 16:42:10 <bougyman> meaning any tcp service.
Jul 29 16:42:23 <hopspitfire> I requested my server have a static link from the netops manager so that I could have access
Jul 29 16:42:23 <Epyon1> nice
Jul 29 16:43:57 <i700plus> im not new to linux but fairly dumb when it comes to anything but simple command line stuff, im learning quicker with this phone than when i installed ubuntu on my laptop lol, this phone is basically a portable linux box
Jul 29 16:44:23 <bougyman> i use debian on the pre for 99% of my linux stuff on it
Jul 29 16:44:28 <bougyman> via ssh from my netbook.
Jul 29 16:44:42 <Epyon1> nice
Jul 29 16:44:47 <bougyman> i messed with some optware stuff but there's not a lot of space.
Jul 29 16:45:04 <bougyman> easier to put a 1gb+ debian chroot in /media/internal and play with that
Jul 29 16:45:48 <bougyman> now if I can just get sound to output i'll be golden
Jul 29 16:45:58 <bougyman> with mpd as my audio player.
Jul 29 16:45:59 <i700plus> the only issue is other than the pre i do not have another linux box to resize the image
Jul 29 16:46:19 <bougyman> i700plus: novaterm or putty from windows to it.
Jul 29 16:46:32 <Epyon1> yeah i just ran out of space in my optware
Jul 29 16:46:40 <Epyon1> think im gonna go the debian route
Jul 29 16:47:13 <i700plus> bougyman , then i spose if i fudge somthing up i can delete the img and just recreate it to start over then huh?
Jul 29 16:47:21 <Epyon1> yep
Jul 29 16:48:25 <i700plus> nice, i installed a different irc client with ipkg-opt and it installed alot of dependencies, i ran ipkg-opt remove centerim to remove it and it didnt seem to remove all the dependencies, is their a command to remove the left over ones?
Jul 29 16:49:59 <bougyman> ipkg-opt list_installed|more
Jul 29 16:50:03 <bougyman> then start removing
Jul 29 16:50:10 <bougyman> "meatware"
Jul 29 16:51:25 <t3rmin> ipkg-opt info centerim
Jul 29 16:51:31 <t3rmin> Depends: gpgme, libcurl, libjpeg, libotr, libstdc++, ncursesw, openssl
Jul 29 16:51:36 <bougyman> oh nice
Jul 29 16:51:48 <i700plus> sweet nice.. .thanks both
Jul 29 16:51:51 <Epyon1> bbl gonna go into windows and dl webosdoctor
Jul 29 16:54:56 <i700plus> brb installing debian
Jul 29 16:56:45 <bougyman> anyway from the cli to force luna to stay awake?
Jul 29 16:56:55 <bougyman> i hate wifi-ing in and powerd taking over
Jul 29 16:57:10 <Technobabble> you can plug it into the USB and it won't power down
Jul 29 16:57:15 <Technobabble> but yes, there's a way
Jul 29 16:57:17 <bougyman> nm
Jul 29 16:57:18 <bougyman> stop powerd
Jul 29 16:57:18 <Technobabble> not sure how though
Jul 29 16:57:20 <bougyman> does it
Jul 29 16:57:30 <bougyman> and start powerd turns it back on
Jul 29 16:58:36 <bougyman> heh, the batter monitor in luna turns to a question mark when I do that
Jul 29 16:58:44 <bougyman> other than that, no ill results that I can see.
Jul 29 17:03:40 <epyon1> windows is weird
Jul 29 17:03:53 <epyon1> lol
Jul 29 17:05:56 <thatdude> I just got owned by Character Counter patch
Jul 29 17:08:27 <epyon1> haha what did it do?
Jul 29 17:08:54 <tris> did it install a rootkit? :)
Jul 29 17:10:09 <thatdude> epyon1: I have two radio in the message and no counter and unable to read any messages.
Jul 29 17:10:26 <thatdude> tris: ha!
Jul 29 17:10:32 <tris> ouch
Jul 29 17:10:33 <epyon1> did you make a backup of your old file?
Jul 29 17:10:50 <tris> hopefully you used quilt or at least patch(1) :)
Jul 29 17:11:06 <thatdude> epyion1: Nah! I was brave ;)
Jul 29 17:11:30 <epyon1> well...
Jul 29 17:11:46 <epyon1> you need a working copy of that file now lol
Jul 29 17:11:52 <epyon1> cause yours doesnt
Jul 29 17:12:09 <thatdude> epyion1: wanna help, lol.
Jul 29 17:13:17 <epyon1> if you give me all the file names that it modified i can give you mine that work for charcount
Jul 29 17:14:06 <thatdude> epyion1: Just compress the entire dir of /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/
Jul 29 17:14:26 <epyon1> thers only like 4 files
Jul 29 17:14:48 <epyon1> if you go on the wiki and look at the patch file they are on the lines of the diff
Jul 29 17:14:59 <thatdude> epyion1: Right, but to be on the safe side
Jul 29 17:15:30 <thatdude> epyion1: It patches the following: patching file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/controllers/chatview-assistant.js
Jul 29 17:15:30 <thatdude> patching file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/controllers/compose-assistant.js
Jul 29 17:15:30 <thatdude> patching file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/utilities/CharacterCounter.js
Jul 29 17:15:30 <thatdude> patching file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/views/chatview/chatview-scene.html
Jul 29 17:15:31 <thatdude> patching file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/app/views/compose/compose-scene.html
Jul 29 17:15:33 <thatdude> patching file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.messaging/stylesheets/messaging.css
Jul 29 17:15:51 <aYellowBanana> baah, I hate how it's all web oriented >_>
Jul 29 17:16:11 <thatdude> epyion1: You can send me those six files I guess ;)
Jul 29 17:16:35 <tris> oh, so you did use patch?
Jul 29 17:16:39 <tris> just look for .orig files then
Jul 29 17:16:57 <tris> or, patch -R
Jul 29 17:17:28 <thatdude> tris: I did not see no sign of it backing it up unless something did not match, lame.
Jul 29 17:17:44 <tris> btw, did you restart luna after applying that patch?
Jul 29 17:18:11 <thatdude> resend
Jul 29 17:19:19 <epyon1> thatdude did you get my file request
Jul 29 17:21:16 <epyon1> wtf i have to dl webos doctor every time just to use it
Jul 29 17:28:38 <aYellowBanana> fuck. pscp isn't working
Jul 29 17:28:43 <aYellowBanana> connection refused >_>
Jul 29 17:29:07 <dog44> hey how come when i login to win scp i wont let me save any changes
Jul 29 17:29:38 <thatdude> epyon1: Thanks, working normal now with the patch.
Jul 29 17:29:54 <epyon1> your welcom
Jul 29 17:30:02 <aYellowBanana> gaay, why can I ssh into it but not SFTP into it with Filezill
Jul 29 17:30:28 <epyon1> into what?
Jul 29 17:30:49 <thatdude> epyon1: How do I disable that patch if I decide to do so?
Jul 29 17:31:13 <aYellowBanana> my emulator
Jul 29 17:31:21 <dog44> sftp wont let me save it says permission denied
Jul 29 17:31:41 <Technobabble> mount -o remount,rw /
Jul 29 17:31:44 <epyon1> thatdude you need to get the orignal non patched files
Jul 29 17:31:52 <epyon1> and replace them again
Jul 29 17:32:00 <Technobabble> dog44, that was for you ^
Jul 29 17:32:18 <dog44> ohh im retarded
Jul 29 17:32:31 <thatdude> epyon1: Ok, no biggie then.
Jul 29 17:33:17 <aYellowBanana> why can't I sftp into my emulator >.<
Jul 29 17:33:39 <thatdude> Welcome destinal
Jul 29 17:33:45 <destinal> aYellowBanana: you need to install openssh's sftp server program if you want sftp.  otherwise just use scp
Jul 29 17:33:52 <destinal> thatdude: hey
Jul 29 17:34:04 <thatdude> destinal: How you been?
Jul 29 17:34:37 <destinal> doing well, excited about defcon friday / this weekend
Jul 29 17:35:17 <aYellowBanana> have fun :)
Jul 29 17:35:19 <thatdude> What's going to be the main topic?
Jul 29 17:35:40 <thatdude> Oh many contest this year
Jul 29 17:40:22 <kraklist> i dont know it was working should i just make a new privledged user?kraklist@castle:~$ mount -o remount,rw /
Jul 29 17:40:22 <kraklist> mount: permission denied. (are you root?)
Jul 29 17:40:51 <destinal> put "sudo" before that line
Jul 29 17:41:02 <destinal> err at the start of that line
Jul 29 17:41:03 <kraklist> alright let me try
Jul 29 17:41:29 <thatdude> epyon1: Just noticed I have to re-patch  text forwarding
Jul 29 17:41:52 <epyon1> ok
Jul 29 17:42:06 <epyon1> yeah i have it patched for the timestamp and the counter
Jul 29 17:42:47 <epyon1> so backup the ones you have now
Jul 29 17:42:59 <epyon1> and make sure your putting the code in the right place
Jul 29 17:46:33 <thatdude> Hmm forward message not working
Jul 29 17:48:23 <thatdude> Interesting.  Anyone has the message counter and message forwarding working at the same time?
Jul 29 17:48:24 <epyon2> hmm
Jul 29 17:48:37 <epyon2> any one use webos doctor
Jul 29 17:48:49 <thatdude> I did before
Jul 29 17:49:00 <epyon2> did you have problems detecting your phone?
Jul 29 17:49:31 <thatdude> Couple of times but there is a page in webos-internals  that help me pass that issue.
Jul 29 17:49:37 <thatdude> Let see if I can find it
Jul 29 17:49:42 <epyon2> got the link
Jul 29 17:49:50 <epyon2> yeah that would be nice if you can find it
Jul 29 17:49:56 <thatdude> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover
Jul 29 17:50:21 <thatdude> Read the part where it says "If you find that your PC is not recognizing your Pre...."
Jul 29 17:50:33 <epyon2> yeah
Jul 29 17:52:46 <FreeTim3> I had that problem and; just used one of the other USB ports and it worked. I have no idea why that worked.
Jul 29 17:53:20 <FreeTim3> also I noticed that, it took over 1min to begin to work. Driver loads slowly ?
Jul 29 17:53:25 <FreeTim3> Just my two cents.
Jul 29 17:53:46 <epyon2> i tried the bootloader recovery mode
Jul 29 17:56:10 <epyon2> there we go
Jul 29 17:56:27 <thatdude> Rebooting the phone which is my last option to see if the message forwarding patch works
Jul 29 17:56:55 <thatdude> epyon2: Used the bootloader recovery mode?
Jul 29 17:57:00 <epyon2> yeah
Jul 29 17:57:14 <epyon2> pop the battery out
Jul 29 17:57:22 <epyon2> unplug it from usb
Jul 29 17:57:31 <blau-mikeDG> damn i think i lost the mods i made for universal search :(
Jul 29 17:57:31 <epyon2> hold the up on the ringer vol button
Jul 29 17:57:37 <epyon2> :(
Jul 29 17:57:44 <thatdude> ouch!
Jul 29 17:57:44 <epyon2> i need to do those
Jul 29 17:58:10 <thatdude> I was reading about it earlier, did not see it useful for me.
Jul 29 17:59:55 <thatdude> Well to anyone interesting to know the message forward patch does not work when having the message counter patch :*(
Jul 29 18:03:11 <epyon2> your sure you put all the code in the correct location
Jul 29 18:05:54 <thatdude> I am using quilt to patch the message forward patch
Jul 29 18:06:05 <thatdude> The counter I did manually with the files you send me
Jul 29 18:06:32 <hopspitfire> thatdude: did you figure out why it doesn't work?
Jul 29 18:06:46 <thatdude> No
Jul 29 18:08:02 <epyon2> i havent even tried the forwarder code
Jul 29 18:08:24 <thatdude> The counter is working fine.  Is having the message forward not working now.
Jul 29 18:08:39 <thatdude> Well you should try it epyon
Jul 29 18:09:36 <epyon2> lol well right now if i disconect my pre ill brick it
Jul 29 18:09:48 <epyon2> doing webosdoctor
Jul 29 18:09:55 <epyon2> you should see if you can figure it out
Jul 29 18:09:58 <thatdude> hahaha I forgot you are restoring
Jul 29 18:10:35 <epyon2> hmm its sitting at 66% a long time
Jul 29 18:10:44 <thatdude> It's normal
Jul 29 18:10:49 <epyon2> ok cool
Jul 29 18:10:51 <hopspitfire> thatdude: leave a note on the wiki that combining them doesn't work atm
Jul 29 18:11:08 <thatdude> Ok
Jul 29 18:11:09 <epyon2> its probally just line number issues
Jul 29 18:12:40 <bsiegel> I love that I am still randomly discovering new features of this phone nearly 2 months after I got it
Jul 29 18:12:57 <epyon2> lol
Jul 29 18:13:00 <bsiegel> specificly, only recently did I discover you can upload photos to photobucket
Jul 29 18:13:09 <bsiegel> and that you can add a contact to the launcher
Jul 29 18:13:27 <epyon2> is that a rooted pre thing?
Jul 29 18:13:31 <epyon2> or is that a feature
Jul 29 18:13:38 <bsiegel> both of those are built-in features
Jul 29 18:13:41 <epyon2> nice
Jul 29 18:13:50 <epyon2> i didnt know you could add a contact to the launcher
Jul 29 18:14:25 <bsiegel> I now have a full page of my "speed dials"
Jul 29 18:14:33 <bsiegel> much easier than doing it by the keyboard
Jul 29 18:14:40 <epyon2> nice did you add another page
Jul 29 18:14:43 <bsiegel> yeah
Jul 29 18:15:17 <blau-mikeDG> i have a messy page of stuff i only acces via universal search :)
Jul 29 18:15:21 <blau-mikeDG> and then a clean page of frequent stuff
Jul 29 18:15:49 <bsiegel> I have: speed dials, basic apps, app catalog / sprint apps, homebrew apps, settings apps
Jul 29 18:15:56 <epyon2> cool right now mine is like normal apps then the last one is like sys apps
Jul 29 18:16:05 <epyon2> and the middle one is just eh apps
Jul 29 18:16:06 <epyon2> lol
Jul 29 18:16:19 <bsiegel> Commenting out the ability to add pages was really pretty dumb
Jul 29 18:16:32 <epyon2> its just an uncomment thing?
Jul 29 18:16:38 <thatdude> hopspitfire: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Messaging_Mods#Notes
Jul 29 18:16:42 <blau-mikeDG> yup
Jul 29 18:17:08 <bsiegel> it seems fully baked to me
Jul 29 18:17:16 <epyon2> damn palm is stupid..or maybe it was a design request from sprint
Jul 29 18:18:00 <bsiegel> well for things like Call duration, that request from sprint was implemented with a setting that you can access over the service bus
Jul 29 18:18:07 <psykoz> I don't think they were stupid, I"ve noticed making too many pages LUna slows down quite a bit
Jul 29 18:18:12 <hopspitfire> thatdude: sweet
Jul 29 18:18:23 <epyon2> pages or cards?
Jul 29 18:18:31 <psykoz> pages in launcher
Jul 29 18:18:35 <epyon2> really
Jul 29 18:18:41 <epyon2> i guess it takes up ram
Jul 29 18:18:42 <psykoz> I've noticed a lot of slowdown if I make too many
Jul 29 18:18:45 <bsiegel> psykoz: perhaps but they could at least have a limit, or control the availability / number of extra pages via a pref
Jul 29 18:18:50 <bsiegel> rather than commenting the source out
Jul 29 18:19:03 <hopspitfire> This is interesting: http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/29/sprint-loses-384m-257k-subscribers-in-first-full-quarter-of-pr/
Jul 29 18:19:04 <psykoz> bsiegel, I assume at a later update when they figure out why it didn't work they way they intended they'll uncomment it out
Jul 29 18:19:06 <epyon2> they probally store it directly in ram
Jul 29 18:19:44 <psykoz> larger fish to fry at the moment for them if they're going to make this phone long term competitive against Android and iPhone
Jul 29 18:20:10 <epyon2> i think its a very good alternative to android
Jul 29 18:20:15 <bsiegel> that is true, there are a lot of things to do
Jul 29 18:20:26 <epyon2> i got it instead of waiting for sprint to release their android
Jul 29 18:20:28 <bsiegel> and yeah, I am impressed that the device seems even more open than Android
Jul 29 18:20:29 <epyon2> cause they lied to me
Jul 29 18:20:32 <i700plus> i havent heard much about android at all but everywhere i go i hear about the pre or webos
Jul 29 18:20:34 <bhuey> haha, iTunes has been enabled. :)
Jul 29 18:20:34 <epyon2> yeah it does
Jul 29 18:21:01 * bhuey hasn't played with an android phon yet
Jul 29 18:21:13 <epyon2> the android phone was suposed to come out on sprint when the pre did
Jul 29 18:21:26 <epyon2> but the pre went ahead of it
Jul 29 18:21:43 <i700plus> i still cant beleive that at&t is controlling apple so much with the iphone, all because their network cant handle the data!
Jul 29 18:22:20 <i700plus> can you imagine what the pre would be like if it was an att launch...
Jul 29 18:22:22 <bsiegel> The official development story has the advantages of a limited environment (low power use, sandboxing, etc) but you have full access to the OS if you want to do whatever outside of the official development system
Jul 29 18:22:39 <bsiegel> Really, so far the only thing I miss with the Pre is video recording
Jul 29 18:22:39 <bhuey> how does android compare to webos ? url ?
Jul 29 18:22:44 <hopspitfire> Seriously, iPhone already has MMS support but AT&T doesn't even support it :fail:
Jul 29 18:22:56 <epyon2> haha
Jul 29 18:23:04 <thatdude> :lame:
Jul 29 18:23:42 <i700plus> im waiting for the day that at&ts network just collapses and all the iphone users are left with no service, at least sprint can roam on verizon towers
Jul 29 18:23:44 <bsiegel> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=webos+vs+android
Jul 29 18:24:11 <bhuey> Sprint doesn't seem to be doing that well
Jul 29 18:24:26 <bsiegel> sprint has been losing money and subscribers for a while
Jul 29 18:24:52 <bsiegel> I think with the release of the Pre the rate they are losing money has slowed a little but it will be a long time before they are able to pull back into the black
Jul 29 18:24:57 <bsiegel> or get bought by verizon
Jul 29 18:24:57 <i700plus> i personally think they are doing "better" only losing a couple hundread thousand customers per quarter rather than a couple million
Jul 29 18:24:57 <dug> http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/28/hackers-iphone-apple-technology-security-hackers.html
Jul 29 18:24:58 <epyon2> did it annoy any one that all the apps arnt in alphebetical order in the menus?
Jul 29 18:25:30 <bhuey> I remember when Sprint was da bomb as a carrier
Jul 29 18:25:53 <bsiegel> I just like the fact that when i got into a sprint store, the associate walks up to me and asks if they can help me with something
Jul 29 18:26:01 <i700plus> i remember when sprints customer service was so bad... and you could NEVER get them to release the MSL even of any phones
Jul 29 18:26:06 <epyon2> thats the coolest hack every
Jul 29 18:26:13 <bsiegel> vs verzion, where I walk into purgatory, sign in my name, and wait 30 minutes to be sold a phone
Jul 29 18:26:21 <i700plus> now i ask them though chat and get mine in 2 minutes lol
Jul 29 18:26:42 <i700plus> verizon wouldnt be that bad if they didnt lock down there phones like crazy
Jul 29 18:27:03 <bsiegel> i700plus: do you just ask directly or do you lead them through a script, like "oh I need to reset my phone... now its asking for a 6 digit code... what could that be?"
Jul 29 18:27:08 <i700plus> look at the verizon touch pro compaired to sprints, half the memory slower clock speed and no touch flo
Jul 29 18:27:14 <bsiegel> Oh man I forgot about brew
Jul 29 18:27:39 <gkatsev> verizon likes to cripple their phones...
Jul 29 18:27:40 <i700plus> I actually just asked them for my msl code because i needed to reset my data profile on the pre and the lady gave me it in 2 minutes
Jul 29 18:27:48 <bsiegel> good luck loading an app onto your verizon phone that you didn't get through their download site
Jul 29 18:28:22 <gkatsev> bsiegel: yeah, in fact, there are rumors that the pre that will show up on verizon will not have the current app store but ONLY the verizon app store
Jul 29 18:28:26 <i700plus> i explained it to her full truth... i also called retentions and told them on crackberry.com (when i had the tour) that people were calling and getting free AirRaves... and that i wanted one, i got one the next day for free
Jul 29 18:28:50 <gkatsev> AirRaves?
Jul 29 18:28:54 <epyon2> yeah well they want to keep their customers
Jul 29 18:29:04 <i700plus> I've always had luck with sprint just by telling them the truth, if i beat around the bush they tend to think somthing is up, plus the people at my local sprint store rock...
Jul 29 18:29:07 <epyon2> like i think they figured they were going to give out airraves
Jul 29 18:29:14 <gkatsev> sprint lost 275k customers in Q2
Jul 29 18:29:15 <i700plus> air rave.. mobile cell tower basically
Jul 29 18:29:32 <gkatsev> ah, k
Jul 29 18:29:52 <gkatsev> yeah, sprint is pretty good about giving out msl and unlocking your phone for dev
Jul 29 18:30:18 <bsiegel> hmm
Jul 29 18:30:32 <gkatsev> you just sign up on developer.sprint.com and enter your phone  number and the phone's code and you will get a text message that will dev unlock the phone, to some degree
Jul 29 18:30:36 <bsiegel> the signal at my house is terrible, maybe i should give them a call and see if they are amenable
Jul 29 18:30:39 <gkatsev> but that isnt needed on the pre
Jul 29 18:31:01 <blau-mikeDG> anyone here got my app? can you just run a quick check for the most recent file?
Jul 29 18:31:09 <i700plus> brb
Jul 29 18:34:01 <bsiegel> blau-mikeDG: the shortcut thinger>
Jul 29 18:34:20 <blau-mikeDG> yeah
Jul 29 18:34:28 <bsiegel> yep, got a new one
Jul 29 18:34:31 <bsiegel> Instant SMS message
Jul 29 18:34:36 <bsiegel> incidentally, great app :)
Jul 29 18:34:36 <blau-mikeDG> hrmm found some funkiness with the sms shortcut :/
Jul 29 18:34:56 <blau-mikeDG> i now have 2 entries in the messaging app
Jul 29 18:35:11 <blau-mikeDG> ill add a note to it :)
Jul 29 18:35:44 <epyon2> brb going back to linux
Jul 29 18:40:55 <thatdude> epyon: When you get a chance please patch Message Forwarding while having Message Counter already patched.
Jul 29 18:41:16 <Epyon1> maybe later today
Jul 29 18:41:28 <Epyon1> ive gotta get my pre back to all my specs
Jul 29 18:41:45 <hopspitfire> I need to split up that Messaging Mods page, it breaks the Wiki standard.
Jul 29 18:41:46 <Epyon1> any one got the new dev mode code off hand btw
Jul 29 18:41:58 <hopspitfire> upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
Jul 29 18:42:24 <Epyon1> i thought they changed it
Jul 29 18:42:30 <blau-mikeDG> they added a second one i think
Jul 29 18:42:37 <Epyon1> ah ok
Jul 29 18:44:35 <i700plus> webos06062009 or somthing of that matter
Jul 29 18:45:00 <thatdude> What's the difference?
Jul 29 18:45:08 <i700plus> nothing, just an easier way
Jul 29 18:45:25 <thatdude> Ok, I just have mine enable on my launcher
Jul 29 18:45:36 <i700plus> that works too
Jul 29 18:45:46 <i700plus> i never disable mine so no point for me
Jul 29 18:45:47 <Epyon1> well you cant enable it if you dont have root access lol
Jul 29 18:46:10 <i700plus> konami code FTW
Jul 29 18:46:33 <i700plus> its amazing that this phone is only 2 months old and already has so much going for it
Jul 29 18:47:30 <i700plus> Rim and HTC have such nice devices but im sick of beating a dead horse with the software...
Jul 29 18:47:54 <i700plus> i would love to see the touch pro 2 with web os... and a flash, id pay a grand for that...
Jul 29 18:48:00 <Epyon1> so is it definate that palm will stick with webos for alot more of their phones?
Jul 29 18:48:54 <i700plus> i really hope so, the linux backend just makes so much sense, they really are heading in the right place, i hope they dont screw this up
Jul 29 18:49:37 <destinal> Epyon1: there's another device codename pixie
Jul 29 18:49:42 <i700plus> one thing that worries me is how much people are complaining about issues over at precentral, not so much hardware but how 1.1 is taking two steps backwards and how 1.0.4 was perfect for some
Jul 29 18:49:43 <destinal> we've seen stuff on for webos
Jul 29 18:50:20 <Epyon1> whats that different about 1.1
Jul 29 18:50:23 <i700plus> i'd love to see the iphone with Webos... too bad it has a GSM radio haha
Jul 29 18:50:29 <Epyon1> haha
Jul 29 18:50:44 <hopspitfire> Epyon1: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Update_1.1.0
Jul 29 18:51:07 <i700plus> @epyon1 i've heard alot of people with battery issues,laggy phones,hot phones,and issues such as notifications sounding corrupt
Jul 29 18:51:08 <blau-mikeDG> backwards?
Jul 29 18:51:21 <blau-mikeDG> ive had none of those issues
Jul 29 18:51:25 <Rick_> Guys, please check the bottom of the www.webos-internals.org  wiki front page and tell me if that seems ok?
Jul 29 18:51:37 <blau-mikeDG> a lot of these things are probably people who srewed up their phones by "rooting" them without knowing what they were doing
Jul 29 18:51:47 <Epyon1> yeah exactly
Jul 29 18:51:54 <Epyon1> what did you change on the wiki page
Jul 29 18:51:57 <Epyon1> the disclaimer?
Jul 29 18:52:04 <Rick_> They did change the sound for notifications.   But they CHANGED THE SOUND FILE.
Jul 29 18:52:09 <Rick_> some people dislike it.
Jul 29 18:52:13 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 18:52:16 <Rick_> no,  above the disclaimer.
Jul 29 18:52:27 <i700plus> true true, i have had some battery issues but once an extended battery door that works with the touchstone comes out i will be like a kid in a candy store
Jul 29 18:52:36 <Rick_> no wait,  BELOW the disclaimer.
Jul 29 18:52:43 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 18:52:43 <Rick_> DAMN  i gotta go fix that now...
Jul 29 18:52:45 <Rick_> arrrghhh
Jul 29 18:52:48 <i700plus> im dizzy!
Jul 29 18:52:51 <Epyon1> 'yeah thats cool
Jul 29 18:52:58 <Rick_> bue what do you think  -- featured article and project?
Jul 29 18:53:10 <i700plus> nice featured article and project
Jul 29 18:53:26 <i700plus> i like how terminal is for both haha
Jul 29 18:53:39 <Rick_> that should be uncommon.  But right now......
Jul 29 18:53:49 <i700plus> understandable :P
Jul 29 18:54:09 <Rick_> anyone with proposals for other things to feature, put proposal links on the "past and future" page
Jul 29 18:54:21 <bsiegel> Rick_: writen -> written
Jul 29 18:55:23 <blau-mikeDG> grr cant figure out how to compose a message to multiple contacts at once :(
Jul 29 18:55:27 <blau-mikeDG> so close
Jul 29 18:55:46 <Epyon1> oh man thats not there?
Jul 29 18:55:52 <Epyon1> i had that in my moto q
Jul 29 18:56:00 <blau-mikeDG> i mean prgramatically
Jul 29 18:56:03 <blau-mikeDG> its possible manually
Jul 29 18:56:05 <Epyon1> ah
Jul 29 18:56:38 <i700plus> i would love to see a HTTP camera server setup, that would be the bee's knees
Jul 29 18:56:43 <hopspitfire> Rick_: It's too far down the page to be a featured article
Jul 29 18:56:50 <blau-mikeDG> lol
Jul 29 18:57:00 <Epyon1> haha bee's knees
Jul 29 18:57:12 <blau-mikeDG> in the Palm code // composeAddress: TODO: this needs to be expanded to support multiple address and different address types
Jul 29 18:57:47 <i700plus> be right back
Jul 29 18:58:11 <Epyon1> well found the brick wall lol
Jul 29 18:58:23 <blau-mikeDG> haha yeah
Jul 29 18:59:02 <Epyon1> man unlocking the second time around was a cintch
Jul 29 18:59:04 <hopspitfire> I'm gonna grab lunch, bbl
Jul 29 19:00:07 <Epyon1> oh man trickery
Jul 29 19:00:33 <Epyon1> enio if you started talking i would think that you were somone else not en0x lol
Jul 29 19:00:33 * thatdude agrees with hopspitfire and will grab lunch as well.
Jul 29 19:00:47 <enio> Epyon1: lol
Jul 29 19:01:20 <blau-mikeDG> i hope people start using some of my ideas now
Jul 29 19:01:26 <destinal> lots of TODO's in the palm code
Jul 29 19:01:40 <blau-mikeDG> we can make web os better!
Jul 29 19:01:42 <destinal> maybe some of them are good ideas for community enhancement
Jul 29 19:03:17 <blau-mikeDG> apps need to provide the ability to create launcher shortcuts for their frequent functions
Jul 29 19:03:22 <Epyon1> yeah!
Jul 29 19:03:34 <blau-mikeDG> like my finance program lets me create a New Item shortcut for a specific account
Jul 29 19:03:36 <Epyon1> lets take over webos
Jul 29 19:03:50 <blau-mikeDG> rather than requiring me to run my app, then go into my account, then hit new item
Jul 29 19:03:52 <Epyon1> im sure palm will love us to fix the os for free
Jul 29 19:06:25 <blau-mikeDG> lol yeah
Jul 29 19:09:22 <Rick_> ok, featured above disclaimer now
Jul 29 19:09:54 <Epyon1> looks good
Jul 29 19:11:26 * jcrawford wonders if i would be charged for using roaming data
Jul 29 19:11:35 * jcrawford is on hold while the sprint person finds out
Jul 29 19:11:49 <Epyon1> lol i hope not
Jul 29 19:11:55 <Epyon1> or my parents are going to kill me
Jul 29 19:12:05 <Epyon1> i was on roaming for a whole week
Jul 29 19:13:41 <jcrawford> yep and a whopping 0.08 per kb
Jul 29 19:13:50 <Epyon1> uh oh
Jul 29 19:14:19 <jcrawford> nah j/k
Jul 29 19:14:25 <jcrawford> it is included in the unlimited data :0
Jul 29 19:14:31 <Epyon1> phew
Jul 29 19:15:01 <Epyon1> i was just like shit gotta check the bill b4 my rents get it whats the pw again to sprint.com do i have that much money crap
Jul 29 19:15:06 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 19:15:59 <jcrawford> haha
Jul 29 19:16:03 <jcrawford> wait how old are you?
Jul 29 19:16:20 <Epyon1> 21
Jul 29 19:16:26 <FreeTim3> Me TOO !! Extended battery WITH an extended battery door that works for the Touchstone
Jul 29 19:16:30 <jcrawford> and your parents pay your sprint bill ahaha
Jul 29 19:16:41 <jcrawford> i was waiting for you to say 15 then i was gonna say you lucky shit
Jul 29 19:16:41 <Epyon1> im still in college
Jul 29 19:16:46 <jcrawford> having a pre at that age :D
Jul 29 19:16:59 <jcrawford> Epyon1, nah understandable was just giving crap ":d
Jul 29 19:17:14 <jcrawford> FreeTim3, it does work with the touchstone?
Jul 29 19:17:18 <Epyon1> yeah i know i just hope my lil sis doesnt get one
Jul 29 19:17:23 <jcrawford> i emailed asking and they never responded
Jul 29 19:17:26 <FreeTim3> It was just a wish, Sorry - my exuberance over that comment from many minutes ago made me shout into the channel
Jul 29 19:17:33 <Epyon1> haha
Jul 29 19:17:34 <jcrawford> bah
Jul 29 19:17:35 <jcrawford> :(
Jul 29 19:17:48 <Epyon1> any one thinking about getting the seidio extended battery?
Jul 29 19:18:05 <jcrawford> if it works with touchstone i would but no one knows heh
Jul 29 19:18:07 <blau-mikeDG> did someone say the new seidio worked with touchstone?
Jul 29 19:18:12 <Epyon1> hahaha
Jul 29 19:18:13 <blau-mikeDG> id get it if it worked with touchstone
Jul 29 19:18:27 <blau-mikeDG> or i could cannibalize the existing door
Jul 29 19:18:34 <Epyon1> what you do is make an extension on the touchstone
Jul 29 19:18:35 <blau-mikeDG> a few wires and some duct tape should work?
Jul 29 19:18:45 <Epyon1> cut out the back of the extended battery
Jul 29 19:18:50 <Epyon1> yep
Jul 29 19:18:51 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 19:18:58 <Epyon1> im sure thats the only problem with it
Jul 29 19:19:59 <blau-mikeDG> the painful part is going to be soldering to your pre, hope you got insurance :)
Jul 29 19:20:31 <jcrawford> lol
Jul 29 19:20:44 <jcrawford> anyone know how soon you can make an insurance claim and how many times you can make a claim?
Jul 29 19:20:57 <blau-mikeDG> wow
Jul 29 19:21:00 <blau-mikeDG> just took my cover off
Jul 29 19:21:01 <Epyon1> i think that might get away from the "sleekness" palm was going for
Jul 29 19:21:06 <blau-mikeDG> my speaker was soooo dirty
Jul 29 19:21:09 <Epyon1> haha
Jul 29 19:21:32 <jcrawford> mine is too blau-mikeDG
Jul 29 19:21:34 <jcrawford> eww
Jul 29 19:21:37 <blau-mikeDG> it looks like the touchstone crap takes up a huge portion of the cover
Jul 29 19:23:15 <bsiegel> jcrawford: comment is a little late, but watch out for international roaming data though, thatll kill you
Jul 29 19:23:26 <Epyon1> ouch
Jul 29 19:23:38 <jcrawford> bsiegel, i don't leave the country :D
Jul 29 19:23:45 <Epyon1> thers not much cdma networks out there though
Jul 29 19:23:48 <jcrawford> though they said in some areas the roaming data wont work
Jul 29 19:26:05 <blau-mikeDG> im out guys
Jul 29 19:26:13 <Epyon1> uh oh
Jul 29 19:26:20 <Epyon1> cya blau-mikeDG
Jul 29 19:26:33 <jcrawford> lata
Jul 29 19:26:40 <sam1am> Who is working on preware.org?
Jul 29 19:26:50 <sam1am> On the Drupal stuff?
Jul 29 19:28:12 <Epyon1> hamachi doesnt have an install script any more
Jul 29 19:30:24 <Epyon1> somone edited the hamachi wiki and screwed it up
Jul 29 19:31:08 <Rick_> what page Epyon1???
Jul 29 19:31:18 <Epyon1> hamachiVPN page
Jul 29 19:31:31 <Epyon1> google cache still has the old one
Jul 29 19:31:32 <Epyon1> http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:GzVlPpgOe_oJ:www.webos-internals.org/wiki/HamachiVPN+hamachi+nokia+pre&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Jul 29 19:31:34 <Rick_> Epyon1 you can look at the dit history.
Jul 29 19:31:52 <Epyon1> yeah but the one now doesnt work because its changed
Jul 29 19:32:09 <Rick_> Epyon1 huh?  Go here:   http://www.webos-internals.org/index.php?title=HamachiVPN&action=history
Jul 29 19:32:55 <Rick_> So, the n770 stuff is wrong?
Jul 29 19:33:04 <Epyon1> that stuff is correct
Jul 29 19:33:08 <Rick_> you wannat roll back to the july 21 edit?
Jul 29 19:33:24 <Epyon1> cause it has the basic ./install file
Jul 29 19:33:39 <Epyon1> the new one you have to do make install and isnt described in the page
Jul 29 19:33:48 <sam1am> Templarian: Who is working on the Drupal site for preware?
Jul 29 19:33:56 <Rick_> Can you fix it?
Jul 29 19:34:02 <Rick_> sam1am  PuffTheMagic is
Jul 29 19:34:16 <Rick_> Epyon1 why don't you just fix the page?  It's a wiki.  Edit it.
Jul 29 19:34:17 <Epyon1> just take it back to the 21st one
Jul 29 19:34:27 <PuffTheMagic> sam1am: yeah?
Jul 29 19:34:31 <Epyon1> oh wait
Jul 29 19:34:31 <Rick_> Epyon1  you can do that.
Jul 29 19:34:35 * Templarian looks around and goes back to wroking.
Jul 29 19:34:37 <Epyon1> k ill fix it
Jul 29 19:35:09 <Rick_> Epyon1 make you in the comment for your edit you explain WHY you're maing that change.
Jul 29 19:35:21 <Epyon1> ok
Jul 29 19:35:21 <Rick_> and you might want to put something on Eain's user-talk page.
Jul 29 19:36:28 <raeb> yahoo, he got sprint to activate his "fraudulent ESN" phone!!!
Jul 29 19:36:38 <raeb> the ebay pre lives!!
Jul 29 19:36:48 <Rick_> goody
Jul 29 19:40:18 <raeb> does the 1.1.0 update come ota ?
Jul 29 19:40:21 <raeb> or do u need to be on wifi
Jul 29 19:40:52 <Epyon1> ota
Jul 29 19:40:55 <Epyon1> or wifi
Jul 29 19:41:07 <Epyon1> i would recomend wifi and being plugged in though
Jul 29 19:41:16 <Epyon1> for speed and making sure the phone doesnt die
Jul 29 19:42:42 <Rick_> Epyon1  I did a re-format of your note.  See page now.
Jul 29 19:43:07 <Epyon1> i dont see it
Jul 29 19:43:08 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 19:43:40 <Epyon1> and my note disapeared
Jul 29 19:45:30 <Rick_> I moved it up to just above the link
Jul 29 19:45:37 <Rick_> since it was explaining the link.
Jul 29 19:45:40 <Rick_> look up
Jul 29 19:45:43 <Rick_> indented PP
Jul 29 19:45:57 <Epyon1> ah ok
Jul 29 19:45:58 <Epyon1> i see
Jul 29 19:46:11 <Rick_> explanantions should be near what they're explaining.  :-)
Jul 29 19:46:39 <Epyon1> where can i talk to the guy
Jul 29 19:46:39 <Rick_> If you need MORE explanation, or to argue about something with another editor, it goes on the talk page.
Jul 29 19:46:46 <Epyon1> ah ok
Jul 29 19:47:17 <Rick_> on the associated talk page of that page, OR on HIS talk page (just click on his name in the history page, it'll take you to his talk page.  Sign your note with
Jul 29 19:47:31 <Rick_> four tildes  ~~~~  AND  it will insert your name and the time
Jul 29 19:49:35 <Epyon1> woah cool
Jul 29 19:50:01 <Epyon1> im new to editing wiki;s
Jul 29 19:50:34 <Zuchmir2> destinal: just added color-choosing in the JS, and changed the default to green if not set in JS, and in the JS to Light Magenta
Jul 29 20:20:38 <jcrawford> ah WTF
Jul 29 20:21:11 <jcrawford> http://webos.pastebin.com/m4aa130b8
Jul 29 20:21:27 <jcrawford> cannot get palm-emulator to work on Fedora :(
Jul 29 20:21:29 <jcrawford> brb
Jul 29 20:22:26 <thatdude> change distro
Jul 29 20:22:30 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 29 20:22:44 <thatdude> lol
Jul 29 20:26:02 <jcrawford> anyone know why I would get the error in that pastebin when trying to start the emulator?
Jul 29 20:26:03 <CIA-35> bzhou * r10510 optware/trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): git: 1.6.3.3 -> 1.6.4
Jul 29 20:27:21 <Epyon1> yay i love when things work
Jul 29 20:28:22 <HebrewzHammer> hey, has anyone else tried orange+tapping a homebrew program?
Jul 29 20:28:38 <Epyon1> no whats it do?
Jul 29 20:28:47 <jcrawford> Epyon1, it is used to delete apps from the device
Jul 29 20:28:58 <Epyon1> ah cool
Jul 29 20:29:30 <HebrewzHammer> yea, but for the homebrew program i did it to, the windows is blank except for the program name, and now I can't get it off my screen.
Jul 29 20:30:42 <HebrewzHammer> I just had to kill the LunaSysMgr to fix it
Jul 29 20:34:10 <StoneRyno> I'm having login issues on my pre using putty to connect wirelessly can anyone help me troubleshoot or repair?
Jul 29 20:38:35 <jcrawford> SICK got the emulator working perfect on Fedora thanks to whomever posted the roms :D
Jul 29 20:41:49 <Epyon1> lol hopspitfire
Jul 29 20:42:10 <Epyon1> got the spelling correction
Jul 29 20:43:35 <FreeTim3> StoneyRyan one secret is to play mp3 to keep the Pre alive... there is a config page for putty on http://www.webos-internals.org/putty
Jul 29 20:44:15 <FreeTim3> hm the page is gone. Let me look...
Jul 29 20:45:04 <FreeTim3> ah ok. here is the putty page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Putty
Jul 29 20:54:11 <StoneRyno> FreeTim3 that link comes up not found
Jul 29 20:55:07 <StoneRyno> I have the pre on the touchstone when attempting to log in doesn't that mean it is always connected? And how come just seconds after attempting to log in with putty i can log in with winSCP without issue?
Jul 29 20:55:28 <StoneRyno> oh opps didn't see 2nd link let me check that one
Jul 29 20:59:24 <jcrawford> see everyone tomorrow :)
Jul 29 20:59:27 <jcrawford> work is finally over
Jul 29 20:59:28 <jcrawford> heh
Jul 29 20:59:30 <jcrawford> lata
Jul 29 21:04:26 <StoneRyno> FreeTim3 ok i got it working now it must have been a config issue with putty those steps set it right
Jul 29 21:05:14 <StoneRyno> now to troubleshoot using it
Jul 29 21:05:28 <StoneRyno> I can't perform ls
Jul 29 21:06:36 <StoneRyno> How can I verify that the user account was setup properly?
Jul 29 21:06:55 <StoneRyno> or how can I log in via wifi as root?
Jul 29 21:07:03 <A2NY> open a new term
Jul 29 21:07:59 <StoneRyno> ok new term open
Jul 29 21:09:09 <A2NY> StoneRyno, oops missed a line, you just want to view your users you have set up ?
Jul 29 21:09:10 <FreeTim3> StonyRyno I'm so glad that wiki page helped.  Cool !! :)
Jul 29 21:09:50 <A2NY> ssh defaults blocks root login
Jul 29 21:10:02 <StoneRyno> I'm trying to get access via wifi working so i can mess around with root stuff without having to use the usb
Jul 29 21:10:32 <StoneRyno> i am able to log in with the user created during the optware, user, whatever page of setup from the wiki
Jul 29 21:10:35 <FreeTim3> You can't login as root, logon as the backup user you created, then sudo to root and you're golden
Jul 29 21:10:47 <StoneRyno> but i appear to not have any rights since i can ls or cde
Jul 29 21:10:52 <StoneRyno> *cd
Jul 29 21:11:13 <A2NY> cat /etc/passwd
Jul 29 21:11:20 <A2NY> does your user exists ?
Jul 29 21:11:24 <StoneRyno> so i thought the user account is setup wrong is i can't do anything
Jul 29 21:12:34 <StoneRyno> should i paste the results of entering that?
Jul 29 21:12:44 <A2NY> do you see your user ?
Jul 29 21:12:47 <A2NY> lets all i need
Jul 29 21:14:07 <StoneRyno> yep i see <username> followed by a string 1st char is $ and then what appears to be randon letters and numbers and a $ here or there
Jul 29 21:14:40 <StoneRyno> a couple 4 digit numbers after that and the word linuc user
Jul 29 21:19:02 <StoneRyno> looks like this usename:BunchOfRandomCharacters:1001:1001:Linux User,,,:/var/home/username:/bin/sh
Jul 29 21:19:23 <A2NY> ok
Jul 29 21:19:41 <A2NY> and in visudo you set up your user access ?
Jul 29 21:20:21 <StoneRyno> it was setup during the process on this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps
Jul 29 21:20:33 <A2NY> ok
Jul 29 21:20:36 <A2NY> so whats the problem
Jul 29 21:20:39 <A2NY> login
Jul 29 21:20:49 <A2NY> with your user
Jul 29 21:20:55 <A2NY> sudo -i
Jul 29 21:20:57 <A2NY> enter password
Jul 29 21:21:40 <StoneRyno> or this one http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP i can't remember which
Jul 29 21:22:11 <StoneRyno> i am logged in as the user but i can't perform any actions such as ls or cd
Jul 29 21:22:19 <A2NY> SUDO -I
Jul 29 21:22:39 <StoneRyno> oh i see so i have to use that before i can do anything as that user?
Jul 29 21:22:52 <A2NY> that will give you root priv
Jul 29 21:23:09 <StoneRyno> ah
Jul 29 21:24:33 <StoneRyno> ok after entering sudo -i it asks for a password is that the password of the user account i logged in with?
Jul 29 21:30:39 <A2NY> yes
Jul 29 21:31:14 <StoneRyno> cool beans
Jul 29 21:31:22 <StoneRyno> thanks much
Jul 29 21:31:31 <A2NY> np
Jul 29 21:31:43 <StoneRyno> I'm slowly getting the hang of using command line
Jul 29 21:32:21 <StoneRyno> haven't done this kind of stuff since the DOS days
Jul 29 21:33:30 <StoneRyno> now all I need to do is figure out the whole process of making the patches
Jul 29 21:34:01 <StoneRyno> since I will want to start editing things to make it more to my linking like messing with font sizes and such
Jul 29 21:34:34 <lmorchard> StoneRyno: Quilt will be your friend
Jul 29 21:34:40 <A2NY> you know where to edit those right ?
Jul 29 21:35:24 <lmorchard> StoneRyno: fyi - http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Creating_a_patch
Jul 29 21:35:30 <StoneRyno> yup i seen the wiki page on using quilt to apply and remove and create patches i have used it to apply the add/delete laucher pages
Jul 29 21:35:53 <StoneRyno> just need to digest the howto
Jul 29 21:36:16 <lmorchard> It's pretty easy once you've gotten the hang of it.
Jul 29 21:36:19 <StoneRyno> The 1st thing I want to do is edit font sizes
Jul 29 21:36:36 <A2NY> you know how to ?
Jul 29 21:36:47 <lmorchard> was using quilt a lot to juggle multiple in-progress bug fixes on a few projects in subversion
Jul 29 21:37:04 <StoneRyno> the CSS files is where that stuff is done right? and each app and part of webOS has it's own CSS right?
Jul 29 21:37:04 <lmorchard> git's better for that now, but quilt's perfect for patches on a pre
Jul 29 21:37:18 <A2NY> yup
Jul 29 21:37:18 <lmorchard> Yup, there should be lots of CSS files to tweak
Jul 29 21:37:45 <A2NY> is the latest webdoc 1.1.0 ?
Jul 29 21:37:59 <StoneRyno> so if I wanted to theme the pre font wise each and every CSS has to be edited correct?
Jul 29 21:38:07 <lmorchard> Pretty much
Jul 29 21:38:25 <lmorchard> This might give you an idea: find /usr/palm/applications -type f -name '*css'
Jul 29 21:38:27 <A2NY> i wouldnt worry about indivual apps
Jul 29 21:38:39 <lmorchard> but I think there are some overall theme files
Jul 29 21:39:16 <lmorchard> like those under /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.15/stylesheets/
Jul 29 21:39:20 <StoneRyno> Ultimately what I'd like to figure out is making an app that themes it for you much like making themes on the blackberry or by using various apps on palmOS for altering visual stuff
Jul 29 21:39:54 <lmorchard> There are a set of styles for a light and a dark theme, but I think apps decide for themselves which to use
Jul 29 21:39:54 <ultraBlack> Can someone tell me what is wrong here?
Jul 29 21:39:58 <ultraBlack> Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on
Jul 29 21:40:02 <ultraBlack> rootfs 441.7M 389.8M 51.9M 88% /
Jul 29 21:40:04 <ultraBlack> /dev/root 31.0M 11.1M 19.9M 36% /boot
Jul 29 21:40:06 <ultraBlack> /dev/mapper/store-root
Jul 29 21:40:07 <StoneRyno> almost all of the font sizes are way to big most notable is the memo app
Jul 29 21:40:08 <ultraBlack> 441.7M 389.8M 51.9M 88% /
Jul 29 21:40:10 <ultraBlack> /dev/mapper/store-root
Jul 29 21:40:12 <ultraBlack> 441.7M 389.8M 51.9M 88% /dev/.static/dev
Jul 29 21:40:16 <ultraBlack> tmpfs 2.0M 152.0k 1.9M 7% /dev
Jul 29 21:40:18 <ultraBlack> /dev/mapper/store-var
Jul 29 21:40:20 <ultraBlack> 248.0M 244.7M 3.3M 99% /var
Jul 29 21:40:22 <ultraBlack> /dev/mapper/store-log
Jul 29 21:40:24 <ultraBlack> 38.7M 9.9M 28.9M 25% /var/log
Jul 29 21:40:26 <ultraBlack> tmpfs 64.0M 620.0k 63.4M 1% /tmp
Jul 29 21:40:32 <ultraBlack> tmpfs 119.6M 0 119.6M 0% /media/ram
Jul 29 21:40:34 <ultraBlack> /dev/mapper/store-media
Jul 29 21:40:34 <A2NY> dude
Jul 29 21:40:35 <lmorchard> ultraBlack: No one will make sense of that - you should use http://webos.pastebin.com/
Jul 29 21:40:36 <ultraBlack> 6.7G 3.9G 2.8G 58% /media/internal
Jul 29 21:40:37 <A2NY> use pastebin
Jul 29 21:40:38 <ultraBlack> /dev/loop0 503.9M 138.9M 339.4M 29% /opt
Jul 29 21:41:05 * lmorchard flees for dinner
Jul 29 21:41:07 <ultraBlack> http://webos.pastebin.com/m10f54dab
Jul 29 21:41:36 <ultraBlack> Any better? ;-)
Jul 29 21:41:45 <A2NY> very
Jul 29 21:41:50 <ultraBlack> kay
Jul 29 21:41:54 <A2NY> the problem ?
Jul 29 21:41:59 <ultraBlack> Can't install apps.
Jul 29 21:42:02 <ultraBlack> or update
Jul 29 21:42:04 <ultraBlack> no free space
Jul 29 21:42:07 <ultraBlack> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/192673-sorry-not-enough-memory.html?s=0fd75ae0fb372de60d68159df9c52fac&
Jul 29 21:42:23 <ultraBlack> that pastebin is the result of a df -h
Jul 29 21:42:41 <ultraBlack> following 1lnxraider's instructions (second to last in the thread, right above me)
Jul 29 21:43:04 <StoneRyno> how do i know if an app is using /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.15/stylesheets/ or specifying its own fonts and sizes?
Jul 29 21:44:52 <Rick_> ultraBlack  your /var is at 99%
Jul 29 21:45:06 <ultraBlack> Rick_: I can see that. How do I fix?
Jul 29 21:45:19 <ultraBlack> There's pretty much nothing in /var
Jul 29 21:45:21 <Rick_> the IPKG in the pre will not even attempt to install if the /var space is over 76%
Jul 29 21:45:38 <Rick_> well, FIRST you have to figure out what's taking up all the space in /var.
Jul 29 21:45:50 <ultraBlack> Rick_: How would you go about that
Jul 29 21:45:58 <ultraBlack> Actually nvm there is stuff in /var
Jul 29 21:46:05 <ultraBlack> yeah -_-
Jul 29 21:46:08 <lmorchard> You might find something with  du /var | sort -rn | more
Jul 29 21:46:25 <lmorchard> Biggest thing on mine is perl since installing quilt
Jul 29 21:46:28 <Rick_> nodnod.  du is your friend.
Jul 29 21:46:51 * lmorchard really flees for food
Jul 29 21:47:04 <ultraBlack> I see python at 51436 (kb?)
Jul 29 21:47:17 <ultraBlack> /var/opt/lib and /var/opt are above that
Jul 29 21:47:34 <ultraBlack> /var/opt/lib/python2.5 at 51436 though
Jul 29 21:48:40 <A2NY> rm /var/opt/lib/python2.5
Jul 29 21:48:42 <A2NY> lol
Jul 29 21:48:58 <raeb> ~seen destinal
Jul 29 21:49:00 <infobot> destinal is currently on #webos-internals (4h 15m 45s). Has said a total of 9 messages. Is idling for 2h 47m 17s, last said: 'maybe some of them are good ideas for community enhancement'.
Jul 29 21:49:06 <ultraBlack> how about i just move it to the desktop
Jul 29 21:49:12 <ultraBlack> (on windows)
Jul 29 21:49:17 <ultraBlack> :P
Jul 29 21:49:35 <ultraBlack> is python a prerequisite for quilt?
Jul 29 21:49:47 <ultraBlack> webshell?
Jul 29 21:49:47 <Rick_> try this:
Jul 29 21:49:50 <ultraBlack> i wonder how it got there
Jul 29 21:50:08 <Rick_> du -sk /var/* | sort -n | while read size fname; do for unit in k M G T P E Z Y; do if [ $size -lt 1024 ]; then echo -e "${size}${unit}\t${fname}"; break; fi; size=$((size/1024)); done; done
Jul 29 21:50:18 <ultraBlack> hot damn
Jul 29 21:50:21 <Rick_> that will give you a list of everything in var sorted by size
Jul 29 21:50:40 <Rick_> webshell if you installed ajaxterm
Jul 29 21:50:44 <raeb> kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta, exa, zotta, yotta
Jul 29 21:50:59 <ultraBlack> if i don't think i installed ajaxterm, that probably means i didn't
Jul 29 21:51:22 <haroldborts> anyone know why when trying to root my pre it said that the novaterm couldnt connect to the server but then it said permission denied and i followed the stuff but i cant do the sdk so i am pulling the novaterm out of the webdoc
Jul 29 21:51:30 <ultraBlack> /var/opt is 161M, which is vague
Jul 29 21:51:49 <Rick_> so,  do the command again, but start at /var/opt/* instead of /var/*
Jul 29 21:51:52 <raeb> 161ish would be vague
Jul 29 21:51:53 <raeb> ;)
Jul 29 21:51:55 <ultraBlack> right
Jul 29 21:51:57 <ultraBlack> duh
Jul 29 21:52:35 <ultraBlack> lib, just like the first du i did said. alright thanks rick. i'll sort it out from here and maybe get back to y'all
Jul 29 21:52:43 <A2NY> ipkg-opt list_installed
Jul 29 21:53:01 <ultraBlack> A2NY: ipkg_conf_init: Failed to create temporary directory `(null)': Permission denied
Jul 29 21:53:02 <ultraBlack> :X
Jul 29 21:53:14 <haroldborts> anybody have any clues on fixing?
Jul 29 21:53:22 <ultraBlack> whoops i wasn't root
Jul 29 21:53:28 <Rick_> root
Jul 29 21:53:48 * Rick_ loves shell scripts
Jul 29 21:54:02 <A2NY> my middle initial is sh ;)
Jul 29 21:54:03 <ultraBlack> yeah. python 2.5 is there in ipkg-opt list_installed
Jul 29 21:54:05 * Rick_ can't write them...
Jul 29 21:54:27 <raeb> lol my shell scripts generally end up being really really really long one liners
Jul 29 21:54:35 <ultraBlack> i'm sure i need python for something
Jul 29 21:54:42 <ultraBlack> it wouldn't be there otherwise.
Jul 29 21:54:45 <haroldborts> anyone know why when trying to root my pre it said that the novaterm couldnt connect to the server but then it said permission denied and i followed the stuff but i cant do the sdk so i am pulling the novaterm out of the webdoc
Jul 29 21:55:06 <ultraBlack> but with it gone apparently /var is small enough to download apps now
Jul 29 21:55:58 <Garrett92C> hey everyone.. I have a quick question regarding PuTTY. Is there a way to copy an entire folder in the Pre's file system to /media/internal/ ?
Jul 29 21:56:11 <Rick_> yes
Jul 29 21:56:39 * raeb thinks cp -r /some/folder /media/internal/
Jul 29 21:56:55 <A2NY> cp -r /hi/* /media/internal/hi
Jul 29 21:56:58 <Garrett92C> oh, that makes sense lol
Jul 29 21:57:07 <destinal> raeb: hello
Jul 29 21:57:08 <Rick_> raeb would be right.  except for the lack of a target dir on the end.
Jul 29 21:57:24 <A2NY> Rick_, you do not need the *
Jul 29 21:57:25 <A2NY> ?
Jul 29 21:57:31 <raeb> doesn't putting the / at the end of the target means make new folder  ?
Jul 29 21:57:33 <Rick_> if you wanted  some/folderin the ROOT of /media/interna
Jul 29 21:58:07 <Garrett92C> i'm gonna copy /luna-systemui/images/ over to the USB drive so I can put them on my comp and edit some
Jul 29 21:58:17 <Rick_> uh
Jul 29 21:58:20 <Rick_> there's a betterway
Jul 29 21:58:31 <raeb> winscp, if you're a windows fella
Jul 29 21:58:35 <Rick_> nodnodnod
Jul 29 21:58:40 <Garrett92C> ah ok
Jul 29 21:58:53 <haroldborts> anyone know why when trying to root my pre it said that the novaterm couldnt connect to the server but then it said permission denied and i followed the stuff but i cant do the sdk so i am pulling the novaterm out of the webdoc
Jul 29 21:59:05 <Garrett92C> thanks guys! I'm still kinda new to linux so i'm still exploring lol
Jul 29 21:59:14 <Rick_> http://winscp.net/eng/download.php
Jul 29 21:59:25 <Garrett92C> tyvm
Jul 29 21:59:31 <Rick_> that program will give you an explorder like drag and drop
Jul 29 21:59:38 <Rick_> copying ability from your windows box to the pre
Jul 29 21:59:55 <Rick_> assuming you have installed dropbear on the pre.
Jul 29 21:59:56 <A2NY> ultraBlack, http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/unslung/cross/Packages
Jul 29 21:59:56 <Garrett92C> really??? thats amazing and will help me out so much
Jul 29 22:00:01 <ultraBlack> Rick_: That shell script you gave me is strange. Keeps segfaulting every few tries
Jul 29 22:00:06 <Garrett92C> yep, got dropbear
Jul 29 22:00:17 <ultraBlack> A2NY: neat.
Jul 29 22:00:22 <A2NY> check depends
Jul 29 22:00:24 <Rick_> sorry ultraBlack -- not my fault,  I just googled it
Jul 29 22:00:30 <ultraBlack> Rick_: Yeah I know
Jul 29 22:00:39 <ultraBlack> Rick_: Thanks tho
Jul 29 22:01:16 <Rick_> My google-fu is mighty.   My shell-script-fu is pathetic.
Jul 29 22:02:35 <ultraBlack> Can anyone vouch for 1lnxraider's method in that thread I linked? Because I tried it, and it gave me problems. Especially after I went ahead to delete my entire /var ! :o
Jul 29 22:02:41 <ultraBlack> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/192673-sorry-not-enough-memory.html?s=0fd75ae0fb372de60d68159df9c52fac&
Jul 29 22:02:52 <ultraBlack> I mean, it sounds like what I'd want
Jul 29 22:02:58 <ultraBlack> A resizable virtual space
Jul 29 22:03:08 <haroldborts> sudo lauanyone wanna help me?
Jul 29 22:03:11 <haroldborts> pleasE?
Jul 29 22:04:13 <ultraBlack> Supposedly since there aren't any apps in the app catalog to push the /var/usr/palm/applications directory's storage allotment up at all, that would be the solution.
Jul 29 22:04:35 <ultraBlack> I tried it, as you can see in my post -_-
Jul 29 22:05:24 <haroldborts> cmon someone help
Jul 29 22:06:29 <A2NY> ultraBlack looks like it works
Jul 29 22:06:40 <ultraBlack> A2NY: You tried it?
Jul 29 22:06:46 <A2NY> no
Jul 29 22:06:49 <ultraBlack> :/
Jul 29 22:06:50 <Rick_> the one in post 19...?
Jul 29 22:06:53 <A2NY> i lost my pre 2 weeks ago because i was drinking
Jul 29 22:06:54 <Rick_> it OUGHT to work.
Jul 29 22:07:01 <A2NY> i would try it
Jul 29 22:07:01 <ultraBlack> aye 19
Jul 29 22:07:12 <ultraBlack> a2ny: that sucks :(
Jul 29 22:07:20 <A2NY> i have insurance
Jul 29 22:07:26 <Rick_> ultraBlack  if it works,  make a wiki page.
Jul 29 22:07:26 <ultraBlack> good! i don't :p
Jul 29 22:07:31 <A2NY> they want a affidavit
Jul 29 22:07:54 <ultraBlack> Rick_: I already tried it Rick, like I showed in my post, it didn't for me. I'll try it again, I suppose, from the top, but... I think my phone is f'ed
Jul 29 22:08:25 <Rick_> webos doctor ultraBlack
Jul 29 22:08:28 <haroldborts> hello anyone wnna help?
Jul 29 22:08:29 <destinal> A2NY: yeah, just sign something saying you set it down somewhere, came back later and it was gone.   that's what happened, yeah?
Jul 29 22:08:39 <Rick_> un-borks anything that's not hardware
Jul 29 22:08:40 <A2NY> yup pretty much
Jul 29 22:09:03 <ultraBlack> Rick_: well, there aren't even apps in the catalog yet, so...it's not a huge deal :)
Jul 29 22:09:18 <A2NY> ultraBlack, did you already doctor your phone ?
Jul 29 22:09:18 <destinal> they're just trying to make sure they can sue you if they find out you really sold it instead
Jul 29 22:09:28 <ultraBlack> a2ny: not once since i got it
Jul 29 22:09:42 <A2NY> lol, but you rm your whole /var/opt ?
Jul 29 22:09:49 <ultraBlack> ya kinda
Jul 29 22:09:55 <Rick_> destinal --
Jul 29 22:09:58 <ultraBlack> idk
Jul 29 22:10:07 <ultraBlack> yesterday
Jul 29 22:10:11 <destinal> Rick_:  ??
Jul 29 22:10:22 <Rick_> destinal -- there's a  procedure on the forums for making a virtual ext3 file system inside /media/internal
Jul 29 22:10:31 <Rick_> which I extract here...  http://webos.pastebin.com/d77a51278
Jul 29 22:10:36 <Rick_> should that actually work?
Jul 29 22:10:38 <destinal> yeah, I've used it successfully
Jul 29 22:10:41 <ultraBlack> everything's working fine now, ssh, webshell, haven't tried tethering lately but i'm sure it's all fine
Jul 29 22:10:56 <destinal> wait you extract it instead?
Jul 29 22:11:08 <haroldborts> anyone know why when trying to root my pre it said that the novaterm couldnt connect to the server but then it said permission denied and i followed the stuff but i cant do the sdk so i am pulling the novaterm out of the webdoc
Jul 29 22:11:11 * destinal reads pastebin
Jul 29 22:11:56 <Rick_> haroldborts did you do the orca thing?
Jul 29 22:12:09 <haroldborts> orca?
Jul 29 22:12:24 <A2NY> big black/white thing in the sea, but thats not important
Jul 29 22:13:28 <A2NY> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Novacom_with_Windows_7
Jul 29 22:13:29 <destinal> Rick_: looks decent, although I don't think the lo stuff is needed
Jul 29 22:13:37 <Rick_> http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/195043-setting-up-novacom-windows-7-easier-method.html
Jul 29 22:13:44 <haroldborts> im on osx 10.4.11
Jul 29 22:13:45 <ultraBlack> destinal: Alrighty, thanks for your input
Jul 29 22:13:46 <destinal> losetup I mean shouldn't be needed
Jul 29 22:13:48 <Rick_> oh
Jul 29 22:13:55 <Rick_> you didn't say haroldborts
Jul 29 22:14:10 * Rick_ doesn't do fruit.
Jul 29 22:14:24 * Rick_ going home
Jul 29 22:14:27 <A2NY> destinal
Jul 29 22:15:03 <destinal> I just dd  to the device,  mkfs.ext3 it, mount -o loop   it   and go
Jul 29 22:15:25 <destinal> s/device/disk image file/
Jul 29 22:15:25 <infobot> destinal meant: I just dd  to the disk image file,  mkfs.ext3 it, mount -o loop   it   and go
Jul 29 22:15:29 <Rick_> destinal  can you put the process on a wiki page for us......
Jul 29 22:15:29 <ultraBlack> I guess the problem is I still don't know what to remove from /var/opt
Jul 29 22:15:34 <Rick_> pretty please pretty please?
Jul 29 22:15:50 <destinal> Rick_: is the intention to migrate existing /opt as well?
Jul 29 22:15:54 <Rick_> since that explanation was serbo-croation Ithink.  Or perhaps greek.
Jul 29 22:16:00 <ultraBlack> destinal: I believe so
Jul 29 22:16:01 <destinal> because I think we can do that more easily as well
Jul 29 22:16:12 <Rick_> just to quit having /var fill up so you can't install apps.
Jul 29 22:16:20 <destinal> ok
Jul 29 22:16:27 <Rick_> installing quilt pretty much hoses /var
Jul 29 22:16:31 <destinal> will in a few, brb
Jul 29 22:16:34 <ultraBlack> Thank you so much guys
Jul 29 22:16:44 <ultraBlack> so quilt is the perp
Jul 29 22:17:17 <Rick_> link off of accessing linux under next steps please destinal
Jul 29 22:17:37 <Rick_> or under advanced topics would probably be better destinal
Jul 29 22:18:22 <A2NY> we have this...
Jul 29 22:18:22 <A2NY> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Alt_optmedia
Jul 29 22:18:43 <czarphanguye> any real performance decrease using Openssh-server Vs. Dropbear?  Dropbear doesn't appear to support the `safe` dss key for password-less login.
Jul 29 22:20:03 <A2NY> i was only using openssh just fine
Jul 29 22:20:52 <ultraBlack> I just totally bricked it. Time for webOS Doc. I might as well some day
Jul 29 22:21:23 * czarphanguye just ran dr for the first time last week.  Glad I did
Jul 29 22:40:41 <thatdude> What is Palm Pre dev code, the short one?
Jul 29 22:54:54 <Rick__> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Update_1.1.0
Jul 29 22:56:25 <raeb> ~seen destinal
Jul 29 22:56:27 <infobot> destinal is currently on #webos-internals (5h 23m 13s). Has said a total of 23 messages. Is idling for 39m 56s, last said: 'will in a few, brb'.
Jul 29 22:56:36 <raeb> whatta idler
Jul 29 22:57:29 <destinal> ~seen god
Jul 29 22:57:30 <infobot> god <n=fridgid@cpe-71-64-9-146.ma.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #waruidev, 287d 17h 10m 58s ago, saying: 'oh i called in sick when huxton was born'.
Jul 29 22:57:39 <A2NY> LOL
Jul 29 22:57:46 <raeb> rofl ok then
Jul 29 22:57:50 <A2NY> ~seen jesus
Jul 29 22:57:51 <infobot> jesus <n=chatzill@189.192.244.176> was last seen on IRC in channel #gnu-kbsd, 385d 1h 3m 10s ago, saying: 'hi'.
Jul 29 22:57:55 <thatdude> thanks Rick__
Jul 29 22:58:13 <thatdude> I used the old one
Jul 29 22:59:33 <destinal> ~seen cdm
Jul 29 22:59:34 <infobot> cdm <n=cdm@adsl-69-107-75-149.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 5d 14h 12m 23s ago, saying: 'wayyyy to busy this week!!!'.
Jul 29 23:00:40 <raeb> so when i was picking out my google voice number, they allow you to try words to see if they are available
Jul 29 23:00:45 <raeb> i almost got (xxx) 88-SATAN
Jul 29 23:00:54 <raeb> but instead went with
Jul 29 23:01:01 <HiQ> Having some troubles.. I have enabled dev mode.. Restarted and plugged in usb.. Installed novacom and python.. I run talk.py and I get some output.. No errors from the looks of it, but the expected and got don't match if that matters.. then can't get any response with telnet'ing to its ip
Jul 29 23:01:02 <raeb> (xxx) NO-ERROR
Jul 29 23:02:02 <A2NY> nice
Jul 29 23:02:09 <A2NY> lol
Jul 29 23:02:49 <hopspitfire> HiQ: you could try novaproxy instead
Jul 29 23:03:03 <ultraBlack> novaproxy always does something for me
Jul 29 23:03:23 <A2NY> raeb you in NJ? ;)
Jul 29 23:03:31 <raeb> colorado
Jul 29 23:03:32 <raeb> denver area
Jul 29 23:03:49 <A2NY> lol
Jul 29 23:03:53 <A2NY> i can call you
Jul 29 23:03:55 <HiQ> hopspitfire: Okay I'll try that. Thanks
Jul 29 23:04:01 <HiQ> exit
Jul 29 23:04:06 <raeb> yes you can
Jul 29 23:04:10 <raeb> and i think thats the great thing about gvoice
Jul 29 23:04:13 <raeb> dont care WHO i give the # to!
Jul 29 23:04:17 <A2NY> exactly
Jul 29 23:04:25 <A2NY> i was with grandcentral before
Jul 29 23:04:36 <A2NY> and all you could do is pick a block of numbers for the most part =\
Jul 29 23:05:00 <raeb> oic, yeah, i got my gvoice invite like right after they bought a gazillion numbers
Jul 29 23:05:14 <A2NY> nice
Jul 29 23:05:30 <opie_> ohh man, i just bought a touch stone, it only works plugged into the wall socket.. what a bunch of crap-ola
Jul 29 23:05:32 <hopspitfire> Rick__: what are you thoughts on renaming all the pages in the Patches To webOS Section to: (APP) MOD (DESCRIPTION)
Jul 29 23:05:58 <destinal> opie_: it's because you can't source 1000ma from most USB hosts
Jul 29 23:06:07 <ultraBlack> opie_: I've been waiting to use the adapter for a different USB gadget
Jul 29 23:06:09 <A2NY> has anyone tried 700mA?
Jul 29 23:06:31 <opie_> destinal: yeah, makes sense i just didn't really think about it before hand
Jul 29 23:06:40 <A2NY> that is what the touchstone charges at, or is it losing -300mA due to resistance ?
Jul 29 23:07:06 <ultraBlack> I don't really care, but my Pre must get to be 70 Celsius in the process
Jul 29 23:07:25 <hopspitfire> Rick__: for example -> Application:MCraig_Enabling_Personals_Category
Jul 29 23:07:37 <A2NY> you can check temps
Jul 29 23:07:49 <Lurking_Grue> Does webdoctor work under windows 7?
Jul 29 23:07:58 <ultraBlack> a2ny: i'll do it when my pre has rebooted from webos doctor
Jul 29 23:07:59 <A2NY> normally mine would hit 40C
Jul 29 23:08:08 <hopspitfire> Lurking_Grue: Yes, it does. Be sure to use the guide to install novacom
Jul 29 23:08:25 <hopspitfire> A2NY: how do you check temps?
Jul 29 23:08:35 <ultraBlack> a2ny: yeah, for future reference
Jul 29 23:08:55 <Lurking_Grue> Hop: Ok... So install the drivers first and make sure they work sort of thing right?
Jul 29 23:09:55 <hopspitfire> Lurking_Grue: Yup, just follow this guide up until you finish installing the drivers -> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Novacom_with_Windows_7
Jul 29 23:10:23 <A2NY> grep BATTERY: /var/log/messages
Jul 29 23:10:24 <Rick__> hopspitfire  I think the patches rename is a great idea.
Jul 29 23:10:55 <ultraBlack> a2ny: thnx
Jul 29 23:11:15 <hopspitfire> Rick__: Ok, otherwise it becomes way too convoluted
Jul 29 23:11:57 <Rick__> I've been moving pages off of there that don't belong, that are really apps, or linux things, or research....
Jul 29 23:13:28 <A2NY> can you use sed for math equations ?
Jul 29 23:14:29 <Rick__> A2NY  pull up a sed page in the browser, if it works there, it's likely to work in an app
Jul 29 23:14:37 <ultraBlack> I thought it was fishy I never got an activation email for my Palm Profile. I must have used the wrong address. Crap
Jul 29 23:20:42 <Templarian> Theres no activation email for the Palm Pre registration.
Jul 29 23:22:40 <ultraBlack> Templarian: It just said there was when I created a new Palm Profile
Jul 29 23:24:46 <epyon2> i got 2
Jul 29 23:24:47 <epyon2> lol
Jul 29 23:26:07 <Templarian> epyon2: do you have to do anything with the email?
Jul 29 23:26:20 <destinal> ultraBlack: ugh, does a remote wipe fix it?
Jul 29 23:26:31 <destinal> ie let you firstuse again
Jul 29 23:26:39 <epyon2> what do you mean any thing to do?
Jul 29 23:26:40 <epyon2> lol
Jul 29 23:26:51 <epyon2> like do i work at palm
Jul 29 23:26:52 <epyon2> no
Jul 29 23:27:19 <ultraBlack> You have to verify your email address
Jul 29 23:27:22 <epyon2> destinal when you do a webosdoctor wipe it will ask for the palm login again
Jul 29 23:27:30 <ultraBlack> destinal: ??
Jul 29 23:27:34 <destinal> trying to think of a faster way
Jul 29 23:27:38 <destinal> faster than doctor
Jul 29 23:27:43 <ultraBlack> oh
Jul 29 23:27:47 <ultraBlack> idk
Jul 29 23:27:50 <destinal> you could do a remote wipe in their web interface but you'd have to log in
Jul 29 23:27:51 <ultraBlack> never done a remote wipe
Jul 29 23:28:08 <ultraBlack> i just used the doctor and am back to a stock pre
Jul 29 23:28:15 <destinal> ah ok
Jul 29 23:28:19 <ultraBlack> i'll be fine, all my data's in the cloud
Jul 29 23:28:27 <ultraBlack> it'll just take all night
Jul 29 23:28:30 <ultraBlack> to sort it out
Jul 29 23:28:37 * Templarian should look into why that email was never sent, I've activated two phones with that email so far so meh.
Jul 29 23:28:51 <ultraBlack> Templarian: lucky
Jul 29 23:29:04 <ultraBlack> I wasn't so. They never verified my email so I am now back to my stock install
Jul 29 23:29:48 <ultraBlack> except i have my NFL app!
Jul 29 23:30:17 <A2NY> =\
Jul 29 23:30:22 <ultraBlack> I have to say, the device feels snappy again
Jul 29 23:30:32 <ultraBlack> Snappier. And I thought it was bad when I bought the thing
Jul 29 23:30:44 <ultraBlack> Now I see how worse it got over time too
Jul 29 23:31:38 <epyon2> yeah i just did a fresh install cause i filled up my opt
Jul 29 23:31:44 <epyon2> and it runs alot better
Jul 29 23:32:33 <Rick__> Templarian  just go to palm.com and log into your palm profile to make sure that the email's valid.
Jul 29 23:33:11 <ultraBlack> Rick__: where is the login on palm.com?
Jul 29 23:33:25 <epyon2> i had to google it to find it
Jul 29 23:33:31 <ultraBlack> i had to google "palm profile" and go to #2: https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console/pages/LoginPage.iface
Jul 29 23:33:41 <Rick__> https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console/pages/LoginPage.iface
Jul 29 23:33:42 <ultraBlack> ha! epyon2 you and i are one in the same
Jul 29 23:33:59 <epyon2> like you couldnt get it from the palm site
Jul 29 23:34:07 <Rick__> sure you could
Jul 29 23:34:16 <ultraBlack> suuuuuuuuure
Jul 29 23:34:22 <Rick__> go to the palm site, in the search box type profile login and boom.
Jul 29 23:34:28 <epyon2> epyon2
Jul 29 23:34:33 <epyon2> lol doesnt work on my self
Jul 29 23:34:37 <epyon2> somone say my name
Jul 29 23:34:42 <epyon2> i think pidgin is acting up
Jul 29 23:34:48 <Rick__> epyon2
Jul 29 23:34:51 <ultraBlack> novacom -t open tty://
Jul 29 23:34:52 <ultraBlack> unable to find device
Jul 29 23:34:56 <ultraBlack> shoot
Jul 29 23:35:09 <epyon2> yeah sound not working weird
Jul 29 23:35:09 <Rick__> infobot slap epyon2 with the salmon of correct software
Jul 29 23:35:11 * infobot slaps epyon2 with the salmon of correct software, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Jul 29 23:35:12 <epyon2> haha
Jul 29 23:35:25 <epyon2> ultraBlack you got dev mode on?
Jul 29 23:35:31 <ultraBlack> epyon2: oh, duh
Jul 29 23:35:39 <ultraBlack> it's been so long since i've used the dev mode enabler
Jul 29 23:35:57 <ultraBlack> ugh.. upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
Jul 29 23:36:07 <epyon2> webos20060606
Jul 29 23:36:12 <Rick__> infobot slap epyon2 's pidgin and tells it to straighten UP!
Jul 29 23:36:13 * infobot slaps epyon2 's pidgin and tells it to straighten UP!, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Jul 29 23:36:13 <epyon2> ezier to remember for me
Jul 29 23:36:18 <epyon2> haha
Jul 29 23:36:19 <Rick__> hehehehehe
Jul 29 23:36:26 <Rick__> joke gets old fast.
Jul 29 23:36:30 <bougyman> how di I restart luna?
Jul 29 23:36:31 <Rick__> infobot help
Jul 29 23:36:38 <bougyman> my fileindexer is all jacked up
Jul 29 23:36:46 <bougyman> i was moving pictures with the 'photo' app open
Jul 29 23:36:48 <Rick__> pkill LunaSysMgr
Jul 29 23:36:54 <ultraBlack> webos20060606?
Jul 29 23:36:55 <bougyman> it'll restart?
Jul 29 23:37:02 <Rick__> yes
Jul 29 23:37:05 <Rick__> upstart restarts it
Jul 29 23:37:13 <epyon2> webos20090606
Jul 29 23:37:19 <Rick__> ultra that's the new short konami code
Jul 29 23:37:24 <Rick__> the old one still works
Jul 29 23:37:25 <bougyman> will that take care of the fileindexer issue?
Jul 29 23:37:31 <bougyman> i couldn't find a file with the bad images in it.
Jul 29 23:37:34 <Rick__> who knows.  But it can't hurt
Jul 29 23:37:38 <raeb> ~seen eno
Jul 29 23:37:41 <infobot> eno is currently on #webos-internals #nslu2-linux, last said: 'it's alright'.
Jul 29 23:37:49 <ultraBlack> Rick__: doesn't seem to work for me
Jul 29 23:37:57 <ultraBlack> oh you typoed
Jul 29 23:37:58 <epyon2> lol
Jul 29 23:37:59 <Rick__> should work on 1.1
Jul 29 23:38:01 <raeb> eno, rwhitby, what about aircrack-ng suite in optware?
Jul 29 23:38:04 <ultraBlack> you didn't put the 9 in earlier
Jul 29 23:38:06 <epyon2> last said its alright
Jul 29 23:38:10 <raeb> maybe no cuz it requires specific drivers, etc ?
Jul 29 23:38:10 <bougyman> when I  run fileindexer in terminal I get weird errors
Jul 29 23:38:11 <bougyman> (process:13696): LunaService-CRITICAL **: Can't request name com.palm.mediadb with bus
Jul 29 23:38:15 <bougyman> fileindexer[13696]: Failed to register media service!
Jul 29 23:38:16 <bougyman> er
Jul 29 23:38:17 <bougyman> sorry
Jul 29 23:38:27 <Rick__> bougyman  reboot
Jul 29 23:38:27 <epyon2> ooo that would be cool
Jul 29 23:38:31 <ultraBlack> excellent
Jul 29 23:38:39 <epyon2> have a wifi hacking phone
Jul 29 23:38:40 <bougyman> Rick__: more than just luna restart?
Jul 29 23:38:45 <bougyman> um.
Jul 29 23:38:50 <Rick__> yep
Jul 29 23:38:51 <bougyman> install debian, apt-get install kismet
Jul 29 23:38:55 <bougyman> it's in the package repo.
Jul 29 23:39:00 <epyon2> yeah im working on debian right now
Jul 29 23:39:18 * ultraBlack afk
Jul 29 23:40:00 <bougyman> yep, luna restart did nada
Jul 29 23:40:02 <bougyman> rebooting
Jul 29 23:40:14 <bougyman> i hate doing that.
Jul 29 23:40:24 <epyon2> takes forever
Jul 29 23:40:27 <bougyman> one time I rebooted and she didn't come back :(
Jul 29 23:40:33 <epyon2> ouch
Jul 29 23:40:37 <bougyman> had to take it and get a new one from best buy.
Jul 29 23:40:49 <epyon2> why didnt you just webosdoctor it
Jul 29 23:40:50 <bougyman> well, it was my fault.  i was editing an interfaces file in terminal o nthe phone
Jul 29 23:40:56 <bougyman> i did webos doctor it.
Jul 29 23:41:03 <bougyman> but even then the radio would not come on.
Jul 29 23:41:07 <ultraBlack> bougyman: I'd try novaproxy
Jul 29 23:41:08 <epyon2> ah
Jul 29 23:41:11 <bougyman> just stuck on the profile screen.
Jul 29 23:41:14 <ultraBlack> That happened to me the exact same way
Jul 29 23:41:25 <ultraBlack> Editing interfaces
Jul 29 23:41:26 <bougyman> now I always just ssh in.
Jul 29 23:41:37 <bougyman> and never edit the system in terminal
Jul 29 23:41:43 <ultraBlack> I used novaproxy to restore my backup / put everything back to defaults
Jul 29 23:41:48 <epyon2> ~seen atlanta
Jul 29 23:41:49 <bougyman> i just use terminal for an ssh client an to do ifconfigs now and then.
Jul 29 23:41:50 <infobot> atlanta <i=c6167a04@gateway/web/freenode/x-2521736d5be7f992> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 7h 56m 16s ago, saying: 'so i dont do it'.
Jul 29 23:42:02 <bougyman> mine was only a few days old, so I didn't mind getting a new one.
Jul 29 23:42:15 <bougyman> to be honest, that ones mini-usb cover wasn't quite right
Jul 29 23:42:18 <bougyman> this one fits flush.
Jul 29 23:42:23 <ultraBlack> I have a large crack in my screen and am perfectly okay with it until it affects the use of touch
Jul 29 23:42:35 <bougyman> though I know if I used it a lot it could get weak.
Jul 29 23:42:37 <epyon2> how long have you had ur phone ultraBlack
Jul 29 23:42:40 <bougyman> that's why I got the touchstone
Jul 29 23:42:43 <ultraBlack> since launch day
Jul 29 23:42:50 <epyon2> so what 2 months?
Jul 29 23:42:53 <ultraBlack> I guess
Jul 29 23:42:55 <ultraBlack> Haven't kept track
Jul 29 23:42:56 <bougyman> touchstone + wifi ssh
Jul 29 23:43:02 <bougyman> so I don't have to plug it in.
Jul 29 23:43:04 <ultraBlack> I don't have the $7 insurance thing
Jul 29 23:43:08 <epyon2> ouch
Jul 29 23:43:11 <ultraBlack> Got rid of that the second day
Jul 29 23:43:13 <raeb> o noes
Jul 29 23:43:22 <bougyman> i always pay for insurance on phones.
Jul 29 23:43:24 <epyon2> i always use ssh even over evdo though its kinda laggy
Jul 29 23:43:24 <bougyman> i'm horrible to them.
Jul 29 23:43:27 <bougyman> except this one.
Jul 29 23:43:33 <raeb> im scared of scratching screen
Jul 29 23:43:37 <bougyman> this one I caress and wipe with a soft cloth.
Jul 29 23:43:41 <epyon2> haha
Jul 29 23:43:43 <ultraBlack> Well, this is my first smart phone. Didn't know to expect this kind of thing
Jul 29 23:43:46 <raeb> i keep mine in the bag
Jul 29 23:43:52 <bougyman> same.
Jul 29 23:43:53 <raeb> microsueded felt bag
Jul 29 23:44:01 <epyon2> i have the side clip
Jul 29 23:44:03 <epyon2> its nice
Jul 29 23:44:05 <bougyman> i'm gonna get the leather hip holster, though, i think.
Jul 29 23:44:11 <epyon2> yeah that thing
Jul 29 23:44:17 <ultraBlack> And I will tell you all: I have no idea how it cracked.
Jul 29 23:44:20 <raeb> imma get a touchstone and 2 more bases
Jul 29 23:44:25 <raeb> home, work, car
Jul 29 23:44:27 <bougyman> because i keep it in my upper shirt pocket a lot and even in the bag it seems dangerous.
Jul 29 23:44:28 <epyon2> though if i get the extended battery it wont fit in the holster any more
Jul 29 23:44:29 <ultraBlack> I've only dropped it once. On carpet, and I looked afterwards in terror. It was fine
Jul 29 23:44:39 <ultraBlack> Anyway this isn't really about webos-internals
Jul 29 23:44:44 <bougyman> yeah, i don't mind carrying the touchstone around too much.
Jul 29 23:44:48 <bougyman> but I'd like home, work, car.
Jul 29 23:44:50 <epyon2> havnt dropped mine yet
Jul 29 23:45:06 <bougyman> does the extended battery also mean no touchstone?
Jul 29 23:45:17 <bougyman> oh woops off-topic.
Jul 29 23:45:18 <epyon2> so they should design a internal feature that activates when it drops to make a force sheild
Jul 29 23:45:31 <epyon2> there we go back on topic
Jul 29 23:45:45 <bougyman> on-topic... how to access pulse-audio.
Jul 29 23:45:47 <epyon2> bougyman yes it means no touchstone
Jul 29 23:45:56 <bougyman> i think i just found the socket in /var/tmp/pulse-RanDomNess
Jul 29 23:45:57 <ultraBlack> gtg finish setting up my pre. probably won't be back in here tonight, if all goes well enough. :) see ya's
Jul 29 23:45:59 <raeb> epyon2: are you sure? why does that mean that?
Jul 29 23:46:07 <ultraBlack> thanks all who helped
Jul 29 23:46:13 <ultraBlack> sorry i have to miss out on convo
Jul 29 23:46:33 <epyon2> raeb cause the back doesnt have the things to let the power in
Jul 29 23:46:44 <raeb> um
Jul 29 23:46:47 <raeb> the contacts are on the phone
Jul 29 23:46:49 <raeb> not on the battery
Jul 29 23:47:08 <epyon2> raeb but you need a new back to fit the battery
Jul 29 23:47:33 <raeb> epyon2: are you sure? i heard otherwise
Jul 29 23:48:09 <epyon2> im taling about the 90% extended battery not the 20% one
Jul 29 23:48:44 <epyon2> http://www.seidioonline.com/product-p/bacy26pmpre-bk.htm
Jul 29 23:49:00 <raeb> ooooo
Jul 29 23:49:02 <raeb> mmmm
Jul 29 23:49:06 <raeb> i say mod it
Jul 29 23:49:08 <raeb> make it work
Jul 29 23:49:17 <epyon2> lol we talked about this earlier today
Jul 29 23:49:50 <hopspitfire> epyon2: What's the capacity?
Jul 29 23:49:50 <raeb> neat, i've never seen this 90% battery before
Jul 29 23:50:21 <epyon2> 2600 mah i guess
Jul 29 23:50:33 <epyon2> i think normal is like 1360 or somthing
Jul 29 23:50:43 <raeb> i think i'd rather have touchstone, imma wear this usb port out
Jul 29 23:51:04 <epyon2> lol belive me if they are any thing mini usb they are strong as shit
Jul 29 23:51:15 <gkatsev> yeah, and sprint doesnt cover fixing it
Jul 29 23:51:16 <epyon2> used it all the time on my moto q
Jul 29 23:52:37 <raeb> my warranty covers lost or stolen phones so
Jul 29 23:52:44 <raeb> er 7 dollar replacement plan
Jul 29 23:52:56 <gkatsev> which would you prefer top or side pouch?
Jul 29 23:53:22 <hopspitfire> raeb: What was the difference between the $7 and $4 plan?
Jul 29 23:53:28 <raeb> oh uhhh
Jul 29 23:53:35 <raeb> i duno
Jul 29 23:53:35 <dug> three dollars?  ;)
Jul 29 23:54:13 <hopspitfire> dug: no wai
Jul 29 23:54:22 <raeb> covers loss, theft, water damage
Jul 29 23:54:28 <epyon2> lol
Jul 29 23:54:54 <hopspitfire> raeb: the $7 or $4?
Jul 29 23:54:58 <raeb> seven
Jul 29 23:55:07 <raeb> i think
Jul 29 23:55:14 <raeb> its what the best buy guy told me so
Jul 29 23:55:15 <gkatsev> perhaps the spring clip is better, it has access to the audio port
Jul 29 23:55:39 <raeb> and he was trying to sell me on best buy plan
Jul 29 23:55:51 <hopspitfire> Those are always the worst
Jul 29 23:56:15 <raeb> like no way do i want a monthly best buy bill for 9 dollars
Jul 30 00:00:18 <tmzt> monthly?
Jul 30 00:00:51 <raeb> yeah
Jul 30 00:00:55 <raeb> for best buy to warranty my phone
Jul 30 00:02:34 <raeb> landscape mode and still ez to type? thank destinal for http://www.webosarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/picture-5-300x227.png
Jul 30 00:03:09 <hopspitfire> raeb 0_0
Jul 30 00:03:44 <raeb> betcha didn't know ur phone could do that
Jul 30 00:03:45 <epyon2> broke it?
Jul 30 00:06:07 <hopspitfire> My phone is already feeling wobbly, I wouldn't be surprised if I woke up to find it like that
Jul 30 00:07:37 <epyon2> i think they all are like that
Jul 30 00:07:55 <epyon2> me and my dads have a little wobble and a seperation on the left side
Jul 30 00:07:58 <thatdude> What am I looking at here: http://www.webosarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/picture-5-300x227.png
Jul 30 00:08:23 <thatdude> Is that a broken phone or mod hardware?
Jul 30 00:08:24 <epyon2> thatdude your looking at a new feature
Jul 30 00:08:31 <epyon2> lol jk
Jul 30 00:08:35 <epyon2> i think its a broken phone
Jul 30 00:08:46 <thatdude> ouch!
Jul 30 00:08:50 <hopspitfire> New code unlocks that feature!
Jul 30 00:08:54 <destinal> from http://www.webosarena.com/2009/07/23/extreme-case-of-pre-malfunction/
Jul 30 00:09:03 <thatdude> That is why I use two thumbs to slide that bad sucker up
Jul 30 00:22:11 <StoneRyno> I found out that the memo app is using the global stylesheet for font size for memo view
Jul 30 00:23:37 <StoneRyno> so if you want the text to be a smaller size when viewing a memo it appears you have to edit the font size for textarea.text-edit part of the global-textfields.css
Jul 30 00:25:52 <StoneRyno> This is ok if one wants global text entry to be a smaller font size but I think I will track down if there is a way to override the global css with the app css
Jul 30 00:29:53 <bougyman> any bluetooth keyboards work with this thing yet?
Jul 30 00:30:20 <destinal> bougyman: no build in HID stack
Jul 30 00:30:25 <destinal> s/ld/lt/
Jul 30 00:30:26 <infobot> destinal meant: bougyman: no built in HID stack
Jul 30 00:30:42 <bougyman> hidd isn't a userspace hid driver?
Jul 30 00:30:45 <bougyman> that's what i thought that did.
Jul 30 00:30:49 <destinal> no
Jul 30 00:30:56 <destinal> it talks with other human interface devices
Jul 30 00:31:02 <bougyman> oh.
Jul 30 00:31:02 <destinal> like the touchscreen and keyboard
Jul 30 00:31:05 <epyon2> man why does beardrop screw up after i edit the passwd file
Jul 30 00:31:17 <destinal> beardrop lmao
Jul 30 00:31:18 <bougyman> cause you're doing it wrong
Jul 30 00:31:21 <bougyman> use vipw
Jul 30 00:31:29 <bougyman> instead of vi /etc/passwd
Jul 30 00:31:39 <epyon2> really?
Jul 30 00:32:01 <epyon2> ive gotta novaterm it now ugh
Jul 30 00:32:10 <JackieRipper> I don't believe the pre comes with vipw
Jul 30 00:32:18 <destinal> I've been meaning to try using bluez instead of palm's stack, but to get palm's stuff to talk to it may be interesting
Jul 30 00:32:20 <JackieRipper> does it?
Jul 30 00:32:23 <bougyman> ew
Jul 30 00:32:27 <bougyman> vipw command not found.
Jul 30 00:32:31 <epyon2> wait unless destinal terminal thing works :)
Jul 30 00:32:51 <epyon2> yep
Jul 30 00:32:56 <destinal> yay win
Jul 30 00:32:58 <JackieRipper> epyon2: what is screwing up?
Jul 30 00:33:02 <bougyman> dang, vipw comes with the 'passwd' package on debian.
Jul 30 00:33:09 <epyon2> just ssh connection
Jul 30 00:33:14 <bougyman> i guess it's not in optware
Jul 30 00:33:21 <JackieRipper> hasn't happened to me
Jul 30 00:33:22 <epyon2> like i was changing to bash shell
Jul 30 00:33:29 <epyon2> so i had to edit the passwd
Jul 30 00:33:33 <bougyman> is optware opensource?
Jul 30 00:33:40 <destinal> bougyman: yes
Jul 30 00:33:40 <epyon2> and now it wont take the password when i ssh in
Jul 30 00:33:41 <JackieRipper> vipw isn't that necessary on a single user box
Jul 30 00:33:53 <epyon2> but it takes it everywhere else
Jul 30 00:34:12 <bougyman> destinal: cool, is this the place to discuss optware dev, too?
Jul 30 00:34:14 <JackieRipper> epyon2: try running passwd username
Jul 30 00:34:17 <JackieRipper> reset the pass
Jul 30 00:34:25 <epyon2> did that a couple times
Jul 30 00:34:35 <bougyman> epyon2: you change root's password?
Jul 30 00:34:40 <JackieRipper> are you logging in as root?
Jul 30 00:35:08 <bougyman> changing root's shell messed a bunch of stuff up on mine.
Jul 30 00:35:15 <bougyman> i log in as me and sudo -i /opt/bin/bash
Jul 30 00:35:15 <raeb> think id get press/blog time if i got a palm pre tattoo ?
Jul 30 00:35:19 <bougyman> (i have an alias for it)
Jul 30 00:35:24 <epyon2> lol
Jul 30 00:35:27 <epyon2> ah
Jul 30 00:35:33 <bougyman> raeb: everyone would think it's an iphone
Jul 30 00:35:35 <JackieRipper> if you installed dropbear using the script, root ssh using passwords is turned off
Jul 30 00:35:37 <gkatsev> bougyman: why not just change /bin/sh for your user in /etc/passwd?
Jul 30 00:35:46 <JackieRipper> disallowed, rather
Jul 30 00:35:50 <bougyman> gkatsev: i mean to go to toor.
Jul 30 00:35:52 <bougyman> er root
Jul 30 00:35:57 <bougyman> my user is already bash
Jul 30 00:36:04 <gkatsev> right
Jul 30 00:36:08 <bougyman> < dyslexic
Jul 30 00:36:38 <bougyman> i never ssh to anything as root, so never tried it on this thing, good to know it's disabled.
Jul 30 00:36:47 <bougyman> i moved to key-only auth, though.
Jul 30 00:36:56 <destinal> bougyman: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/HomePage
Jul 30 00:37:12 <raeb> bougyman: heh, not if it has its keyboard hangin out
Jul 30 00:37:37 <raeb> specially if the tattoo is a pic of a pre takin an iphone from behind
Jul 30 00:37:38 <epyon2> idk what to do
Jul 30 00:37:44 <epyon2> i had to do this last time
Jul 30 00:37:49 <epyon2> but somehow i got it work
Jul 30 00:37:53 <destinal> raeb: lol
Jul 30 00:37:57 <raeb> /s/takin/givin it to/
Jul 30 00:38:09 <raeb> bah
Jul 30 00:38:12 <epyon2> lol
Jul 30 00:38:15 <destinal> no botsnack
Jul 30 00:38:26 <Steeze> hmm
Jul 30 00:38:41 <destinal> infobot: alive?
Jul 30 00:38:42 <infobot> i guess alive is someone who still lives
Jul 30 00:38:52 <raeb> yeah i just put a /
Jul 30 00:38:57 <JackieRipper> epyon2: you didn't answer my question.  Are you logging in as root?
Jul 30 00:39:00 <destinal> oh
Jul 30 00:39:03 <raeb> s/i/dumbass me/
Jul 30 00:39:05 <infobot> raeb meant: yeah dumbass me just put a /
Jul 30 00:39:13 <epyon2> what for ssh or to change th passwd?
Jul 30 00:39:20 <JackieRipper> for ssh
Jul 30 00:39:29 <epyon2> nope my user
Jul 30 00:39:45 <JackieRipper> what did you change in /etc/passwd?
Jul 30 00:40:08 <epyon2> just the end part
Jul 30 00:40:17 <epyon2> from /bin/sh
Jul 30 00:40:24 <epyon2> to /opt/bin/bash
Jul 30 00:40:35 <epyon2> shouldnt affect the pw taking though
Jul 30 00:40:44 <JackieRipper> and you added /opt/bin/bash to /etc/shells ?
Jul 30 00:40:56 <epyon2> yeah it works when i use the terminal on the phone
Jul 30 00:41:09 <epyon2> somthings screwed up with beardrop
Jul 30 00:41:17 <JackieRipper> restart dropbear
Jul 30 00:41:31 <LarrySteeze> blah, the sdk won't install on this computer!
Jul 30 00:42:04 <destinal> ~seen pEEf
Jul 30 00:42:05 <infobot> destinal: i haven't seen 'peef'
Jul 30 00:42:15 <destinal> ~seen enkman
Jul 30 00:42:16 <infobot> i haven't seen 'enkman', destinal
Jul 30 00:42:19 <bougyman> i still can't get the emulator to work on debian
Jul 30 00:42:23 <destinal> ~seen emkman
Jul 30 00:42:24 <bougyman> just buntu and windows
Jul 30 00:42:24 <infobot> i haven't seen 'emkman', destinal
Jul 30 00:42:40 <epyon2> didnt help
Jul 30 00:42:56 <raeb> infobot: dont get smart with me
Jul 30 00:42:58 <destinal> bougyman: the emulator can work anywhere it seems
Jul 30 00:43:05 <epyon2> is ther like a file where beardrop stores caches the passwd file or somthing
Jul 30 00:43:14 <JackieRipper> no
Jul 30 00:43:22 <destinal> just install specifically the SUN java 6 jre, VirtualBox 3.x
Jul 30 00:43:23 <LarrySteeze> anyone have trouble installing the sdk on their machines?
Jul 30 00:43:26 <JackieRipper> what is the error you're getting?
Jul 30 00:43:39 <LarrySteeze> i did that :S
Jul 30 00:43:49 <LarrySteeze> it keeps saying the installation is being interrupted
Jul 30 00:43:57 <LarrySteeze> and then it starts rolling back the install
Jul 30 00:44:12 <raeb> x64  ?
Jul 30 00:44:15 <LarrySteeze> nope
Jul 30 00:44:16 <raeb> or win 7?
Jul 30 00:44:23 <LarrySteeze> 7
Jul 30 00:44:28 <raeb> there it is
Jul 30 00:44:41 <LarrySteeze> i installed it on my other 7 box with no hitch
Jul 30 00:44:51 <Zuchmir2> setinal: someone should really make a mojo config page for term, for now, to select color, font size, scroll size
Jul 30 00:45:10 <epyon2> justin@5.173.187.61's password:
Jul 30 00:45:10 <epyon2> Permission denied, please try again.
Jul 30 00:45:10 <epyon2> justin@5.173.187.61's password:
Jul 30 00:45:10 <epyon2> Permission denied, please try again.
Jul 30 00:45:10 <epyon2> justin@5.173.187.61's password:
Jul 30 00:45:11 <epyon2> Permission denied (publickey,password).
Jul 30 00:45:21 <epyon2> ^error im getting
Jul 30 00:46:07 <destinal> epyon2: did you change that user to use bash by any chance?
Jul 30 00:46:24 <epyon2> destinal yeah and it works in your terminal
Jul 30 00:46:35 <destinal> sure but we don't check /etc/shells IIRC
Jul 30 00:46:47 <destinal> make sure that /opt/bin/bash is listed in /etc/shells
Jul 30 00:47:26 <LarrySteeze> so there's been noted problems with the sdk on win 7?
Jul 30 00:48:15 <destinal> epyon2: you can just  (echo /bin/sh; echo /opt/bin/bash) > /etc/shells     [as root]
Jul 30 00:48:20 <epyon2> yeah
Jul 30 00:48:24 <epyon2> it was scrwed up
Jul 30 00:49:02 <epyon2> there we go
Jul 30 00:49:04 <epyon2> ugh
Jul 30 00:49:10 <epyon2> well that was a hasle
Jul 30 00:49:22 <epyon2> same error different problem as last time lol
Jul 30 00:50:31 <epyon2> thx guys
Jul 30 00:50:57 <destinal> epyon2: no problem
Jul 30 00:51:10 <destinal> bbl, driving
Jul 30 00:54:16 <epyon2> man the terminal app takes away the need for a dev mode
Jul 30 00:54:18 <epyon2> its nice
Jul 30 00:54:42 <tmzt> how do you install it then?
Jul 30 00:55:26 <epyon2> well you need the dev mode to install the terminal app
Jul 30 00:55:35 <epyon2> but it elimiates needing to turn it back on
Jul 30 00:55:45 <JackieRipper> I haven't needed to turn it back on
Jul 30 00:55:56 <epyon2> when you screw things up bad you do lol
Jul 30 00:56:11 <dug> whoa, a terminal app that runs inside the regular UI?  or one that takes over the entire UI?
Jul 30 00:56:23 <epyon2> runs in luna
Jul 30 00:56:29 <dug> ooooooooo
Jul 30 00:56:29 <JackieRipper> dug: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jul 30 00:56:36 <dug> \:D/   thank you
Jul 30 00:56:38 <epyon2> yeah its awesome
Jul 30 00:56:48 <jl> currently reading this page, haha
Jul 30 00:56:50 <epyon2> thats how all the guys are getting on irc
Jul 30 00:57:08 <jl> thats the only reason i want terminal, ssh to my system with irssi running :D
Jul 30 00:57:28 <epyon2> lol
Jul 30 00:58:46 <dug> this sure beats running pssh inside Classic to ssh to localhost and get a shell :|
Jul 30 01:00:41 <JackieRipper> some thing are still missing, but so far, it's pretty damn awesome
Jul 30 01:01:35 <epyon2> yeah and they are making leaps every new release
Jul 30 01:03:30 <LarrySteeze> *cough*
Jul 30 01:03:48 <LarrySteeze> has anyone here had success installing the sdk on win7?
Jul 30 01:07:36 <JackieRipper> guess not
Jul 30 01:07:49 <epyon2> when i use debain chroot will it install in my debsmall.img file?
Jul 30 01:08:00 <epyon2> when i apt-get
Jul 30 01:12:48 <bougyman> yes, epyon2
Jul 30 01:13:01 <LarrySteeze> YES! I got it!
Jul 30 01:13:02 <bougyman> i'm {} close to getting sound working in debian
Jul 30 01:13:13 <LarrySteeze> anyone here running win7 and need help getting it running?
Jul 30 01:13:13 <epyon2> bougyman sweet just what i want cause i filled up my opt last time
Jul 30 01:13:23 <LarrySteeze> orca saved me :D
Jul 30 01:14:38 <epv> hmm
Jul 30 01:15:19 <tharris-> evening all
Jul 30 01:15:33 <epyon2> hey tharris-
Jul 30 01:15:35 <JackieRipper> hiya tharris
Jul 30 01:16:29 <tharris-> what is going on
Jul 30 01:28:31 <rwhitby> raeb: I believe the wifi kernel drivers in the pre don't support the right mode for aircrack-ng.
Jul 30 01:28:57 <raeb> no promiscuous and no packet injecting?
Jul 30 01:29:08 <epv> it'd be surprising if those were there
Jul 30 01:29:21 <raeb> could always plug in a usb atheros chip i suppose
Jul 30 01:29:22 <tharris-> yeah
Jul 30 01:29:47 <rwhitby> czarphanguye: dropbear supports ssh keys just fine.  just read the doco on where to put them, and make sure the username involved actually has a password (even though the password is not used, and can be the '*' account locked entry in /etc/passwd if you want, but not blank)
Jul 30 01:29:50 <tharris-> making the pre a wireless sniffer would be fun
Jul 30 01:29:55 <raeb> though pre's usb port probably doesn't provide enough powa
Jul 30 01:30:15 <epv> you'd have to make a cable that supplies power, or use a powered hub
Jul 30 01:30:23 <epv> plus build usb host mode modules
Jul 30 01:30:53 <epv> is omap a standard HCI usb interface?
Jul 30 01:31:09 <epv> that would be neat
Jul 30 01:31:24 <Robi_> WillJitsu: blueswitch?
Jul 30 01:31:59 <LarrySteeze> for what it's worth...the pre emulator will NOT allow you to take it out of developer mode ;-)
Jul 30 01:32:32 <raeb> although 3 tripple-a's, a 1 ohm resistor, and a 5.1v zener diode would make for a nice usb battery pack
Jul 30 01:32:50 <WillJitsu> Robi_: eh?
Jul 30 01:33:39 <epyon2> that would be sweet
Jul 30 01:35:29 <derek> Can anyone point me to some documentation on doing web http/ajax requests inside a mojo app?
Jul 30 01:36:09 <Robi_> saurik: you know michael from blueswitch?
Jul 30 02:00:31 <saurik> Robi_: I know a lot of people in the field of iphone software. I don't know anyone as "michael from blueswitch"
Jul 30 02:00:38 <saurik> Robi_: that does not mean I do not know him ;P
Jul 30 02:00:59 <saurik> maybe as either some random username, for example, or an e-mail address; or maybe I met him and forgot his name
Jul 30 02:06:53 <derek> where are app catalog apps installed?  Can't find them in  /var/usr/palm/applications/  or  /usr/palm/applications/
Jul 30 02:07:30 <bougyman> ok, got paplay to play in the debian chroot
Jul 30 02:07:50 <bougyman> mount --bind /var/run /media/cf/var/run and mount --bind /tmp /media/cf/tmp was necessary
Jul 30 02:08:02 <rwhitby> derek: should be in /var/usr/palm/applications
Jul 30 02:08:08 <bougyman> that will probably  help with other such socket daemons, as well.
Jul 30 02:08:11 <rwhitby> derek: ipkg -o /var list should show them
Jul 30 02:08:20 <bougyman> still can't get anything that'll stream mp3 to use pulse in the debian chroot
Jul 30 02:08:29 <Robi_> saurik: nod, he flew in from NY last night to attend the meetup, then I found him a ride to the airport the same night so he could get back ;]
Jul 30 02:08:31 <bougyman> but i'll get there tomorrow, i bet.
Jul 30 02:09:45 <derek> rwhitby: Ohhh.... novaterm went into the emulator that I had open, and didn't realize it.  Closed emu, reconnected, and looks good now.  Thanks
Jul 30 02:13:35 <mrvc> destinal: ping
Jul 30 02:13:40 <destinal> mrvc: pong
Jul 30 02:13:47 <mrvc> hey
Jul 30 02:13:52 <mrvc> how's it going?
Jul 30 02:14:27 <destinal> good. looking forward to heading to vegas tomorrow for defcon
Jul 30 02:14:39 <mrvc> destinal: oh yeah? Nice
Jul 30 02:15:25 <Eguy> anyone's update app say "unable to connect"
Jul 30 02:15:31 <Eguy> mine won't work
Jul 30 02:16:13 <mrvc> destinal: so, what are we looking for next steps on terminal?
Jul 30 02:16:17 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: i saw your patch, can't understand why it helped, maybe CellBuffer *tmp = (new_size==0) ? 0 : new CellBuffer [new_size]; fixed it
Jul 30 02:16:42 <destinal> mrvc: did you figure out what was up with the ghosts?
Jul 30 02:17:05 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: it seemed like the old code wasn't clearing i properly
Jul 30 02:17:11 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: was hoping someone would implement a prefs page to choose color/font/scroll-size
Jul 30 02:17:27 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: yep, sounds like a good project
Jul 30 02:17:27 <Zuchmir2> i think the tmp=0 fixed it
Jul 30 02:17:53 <destinal> PuffTheMagic said he's looking at some of the mojo but more couldn't hurt
Jul 30 02:18:03 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: i exposed setColors() to JS, so this will make lots of ppl happy
Jul 30 02:18:07 <PuffTheMagic> looking at it now
Jul 30 02:18:07 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: I was having the ghosting until I added the code to clear the whole new buffer to spaces
Jul 30 02:18:18 <PuffTheMagic> might have to convert Terminal to a lightweight app
Jul 30 02:18:23 <PuffTheMagic> that means using sources.json
Jul 30 02:18:28 <PuffTheMagic> and some other code refactoring
Jul 30 02:18:39 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: sure, what's the difference?
Jul 30 02:18:45 <PuffTheMagic> to get multiple stages
Jul 30 02:18:50 <destinal> ah
Jul 30 02:19:03 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: if you have some time and you're up to it, go for it
Jul 30 02:19:16 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: it seemed odd to me the line that said
Jul 30 02:19:25 <mrvc>  CellBuffer *o = tmp + _height;
Jul 30 02:19:30 <PuffTheMagic> what the difference between a stage and a scene
Jul 30 02:19:33 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1598
Jul 30 02:19:36 <destinal> the code predates sdk so it's whatever was the bare minimum in getting things going
Jul 30 02:19:48 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: yeah i notices
Jul 30 02:19:59 <PuffTheMagic> the default mojo app in eclipse uses the new format
Jul 30 02:20:05 <PuffTheMagic> and so do all the examples it seems
Jul 30 02:20:19 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: maybe it was supposed to be
Jul 30 02:20:35 <mrvc>  CellBuffer *o = tmp + _height*new_width;
Jul 30 02:20:45 <Zuchmir2> you mean: o += new_width
Jul 30 02:20:54 <destinal> feel free to create a new one with palm-generate or  eclipse plugin or whatever and copy the assistant code we have into it
Jul 30 02:21:25 <Zuchmir2> that goes th the next row
Jul 30 02:21:26 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: scenes happen on stages, like in a play :)
Jul 30 02:21:36 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Jul 30 02:21:40 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: no
Jul 30 02:21:41 <PuffTheMagic> so we need to start a new stage
Jul 30 02:21:47 <Zuchmir2> ... oh, i see what u mean
Jul 30 02:22:35 <bpadalino> yay for pointers
Jul 30 02:22:45 <Zuchmir2> ... yeah, that's definately fauly line, yeah it should have been CellBuffer *o = tmp + _height*new_width;
Jul 30 02:22:46 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: Rick_ offered this code recently when I asked about it
Jul 30 02:22:48 <destinal> http://webos.pastebin.com/m3283c31f
Jul 30 02:22:55 <destinal> I just haven't had a chance to do anything with it
Jul 30 02:23:26 <PuffTheMagic> i did something like that
Jul 30 02:23:30 <Zuchmir2> that could have caused a write an unknown buffer
Jul 30 02:23:37 <PuffTheMagic> it kind of doesnt work
Jul 30 02:23:47 <bougyman> so none of the optware sound utilities are linked against pulse nor alsa
Jul 30 02:24:16 <bougyman> but with pulse working in the debian chroot there's gotta be _somethin_ for debian which can use it.
Jul 30 02:24:20 <bougyman> probably mpd.
Jul 30 02:24:47 <LarrySteeze> anyone here use komodo?
Jul 30 02:25:27 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: it seems cleaner to me to just clear the whole thing anyway
Jul 30 02:25:38 <destinal> mrvc: I think the first thing we need is to keep focus
Jul 30 02:25:52 <Zuchmir2> is there an "official" folder for app data?
Jul 30 02:25:53 <destinal> mrvc: things steal focus and only enter works after.  is there an autofocus capability?
Jul 30 02:26:04 <Zuchmir2> mrvc: the reason i did it the other way was for speed
Jul 30 02:26:42 <mrvc> Zuchmir2: understood, but that code is only executed when you change orientations
Jul 30 02:27:16 <destinal> Zuchmir2: apps aren't supposed to store files I believe, they're supposed to use sqlite3 db's
Jul 30 02:27:32 <Zuchmir2> ... the alternate way is : 		CellBuffer *o = tmp;
Jul 30 02:27:32 <Zuchmir2> 		for(int j = 0; j < new_height; j++, o++)
Jul 30 02:27:32 <Zuchmir2> c->ch = ' '
Jul 30 02:27:32 <destinal> for any app created content
Jul 30 02:28:02 <Zuchmir2> it also executes on startup, but depending on the scroll buffer size....
Jul 30 02:28:33 <Zuchmir2> destinal: but an ap like classic, is going to have to store data
Jul 30 02:28:53 <destinal> Zuchmir2: well there's no official docs on how to do an app like classic. :P
Jul 30 02:29:08 <Zuchmir2> i did: find /usr -type d;find /var -type d, and couldn't find anythng interesting
Jul 30 02:29:15 <bougyman> classic puts its stuff in /media/internal
Jul 30 02:29:21 <destinal> right
Jul 30 02:29:22 <mrvc> destinal: I haven't noticed it losing focus.  Does it do that when you use a menu item?
Jul 30 02:29:42 <Zuchmir2> bougyman: i think the *read* it from that folder, then move it out
Jul 30 02:29:44 <destinal> you have to assume everything but /media or /var is off limits due to rootfs being readonly
Jul 30 02:29:58 <Zuchmir2> ... once it's "installed" it's not on the USB drive anymore
Jul 30 02:30:06 <bougyman> i was playing with the sqlite dbs
Jul 30 02:30:12 <bougyman> the schemas are pretty clean.
Jul 30 02:30:31 <bougyman> Zuchmir2: i didn't dig too deep on that.
Jul 30 02:30:32 <destinal> I believe some services or plugins use sqlite3 db's also in a way that
Jul 30 02:30:37 <destinal>  is compatible with apps
Jul 30 02:30:43 <bougyman> but I didn't see it in the db directory either.
Jul 30 02:31:00 <destinal> 0200.
Jul 30 02:31:58 <bougyman> not in /var/palm/data, anyway.
Jul 30 02:32:06 <bougyman> is there another place for 'non-core' apps?
Jul 30 02:32:06 <Zuchmir2> i see folder like: /var/palm/data/file_.usr.palm.applications.com.palm.app.browser_0
Jul 30 02:32:34 <Zuchmir2> ... and /var/pubsub ?
Jul 30 02:32:47 <bougyman> root@castle:/var/palm/data# sqlite3 Databases.db "select * from Databases"
Jul 30 02:32:50 <bougyman> er.
Jul 30 02:33:02 <Zuchmir2> bougyman: that's what i'm wondering
Jul 30 02:33:10 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: ahh browser start off headless :D
Jul 30 02:33:20 <PuffTheMagic> the terminal will need to also
Jul 30 02:34:21 <PuffTheMagic> and it creates stages on the fly it seems
Jul 30 02:34:22 <PuffTheMagic> var stageName = "browser-" + Date.now();
Jul 30 02:34:41 <PuffTheMagic> i might be able to get this working tonight
Jul 30 02:35:05 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: aha
Jul 30 02:35:24 <PuffTheMagic> cause each stage has to have a new name
Jul 30 02:35:25 <destinal> that would mean we can just click terminal again to start more
Jul 30 02:35:31 <PuffTheMagic> cant push term is its already open
Jul 30 02:35:36 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: right
Jul 30 02:35:53 <PuffTheMagic> but we need to use the AppAssistant framework
Jul 30 02:36:04 <PuffTheMagic> and converting to that might be messy
Jul 30 02:36:10 <PuffTheMagic> but i will try to do it tonight
Jul 30 02:36:42 <PuffTheMagic> this.controller.createStageWithCallback({name: stageName, lightweight: true}, f);
Jul 30 02:36:59 <PuffTheMagic> then we can use notifications and shit
Jul 30 02:37:12 <bougyman> for terminal?
Jul 30 02:37:16 <bougyman> that will be hawt.
Jul 30 02:37:22 <PuffTheMagic> yeah
Jul 30 02:37:35 <bougyman> is this pure js now, not the .so anymore?
Jul 30 02:37:47 <PuffTheMagic> yeah this is in the mojo part
Jul 30 02:38:11 <Rick__> there's still an so part
Jul 30 02:38:37 <bougyman> that's the part i'm wondering about.
Jul 30 02:38:47 <bougyman> there's not an official way to write those, is there?
Jul 30 02:39:51 <Rick__> there is not an official way
Jul 30 02:40:00 <Rick__> destinal and crew worked out the details
Jul 30 02:40:26 <Rick__> if you're not drawing graphics, it's very straightforward since the so part is a pure npapi mozilla style browser plugin
Jul 30 02:40:39 <Rick__> so you don't NEED official sdk for it.  Because it just is a mozilla plugin.
Jul 30 02:40:47 <bougyman> i didn't notice if the source was avail on that or not.
Jul 30 02:41:05 <Rick__> The last 3 weeks have mostly been beating up how the graphics part -- which is undocumented works.
Jul 30 02:41:15 <Rick__> bougyman all the source for the plugin is at gitorious
Jul 30 02:41:22 <Rick__> the links are in the wiki article.
Jul 30 02:41:42 <bougyman> ok cool, i've been staying away from the gitorous repo until i get a better feel for the OS layout, and have more time to spare.
Jul 30 02:41:59 <Rick__> the information on Terminal is at http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Jul 30 02:42:01 <bougyman> i'm two days from a virtual did company opening.
Jul 30 02:43:01 <Epyon1> ~seen atlanta
Jul 30 02:43:03 <infobot> atlanta <i=c6167a04@gateway/web/freenode/x-2521736d5be7f992> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 10h 57m 30s ago, saying: 'so i dont do it'.
Jul 30 02:45:01 <bougyman> that a lot of c++ for my tired eyes http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/blobs/master/termplugin/termplugin.cpp
Jul 30 02:45:08 * bougyman sleeps
Jul 30 02:45:55 <destinal> bougyman: check out basicplugin
Jul 30 02:46:21 <destinal> it's a lot easier to see what's going on, though we should probably port the javascript stuff back to it
Jul 30 02:47:33 <Zuchmir2> bougyman: what's a virtual did co? is that DID?
Jul 30 02:47:46 <bougyman> yeah.
Jul 30 02:47:50 <psykoz> Hey guys, did you hear?  Apple has been doing some really honorable things all along
Jul 30 02:47:52 <bougyman> it's google voice, but not free, heh.
Jul 30 02:47:58 <psykoz> They've apparently been helping protect me from local or international hackers, national security threats etc
Jul 30 02:48:07 <bougyman> apple pulled all their google voice apps today.
Jul 30 02:48:07 <psykoz> They've also been protecting me from drug dealers
Jul 30 02:48:08 <destinal> psykoz: right
Jul 30 02:48:20 <psykoz> Finally they've been protecting all AT&T users from problematic service
Jul 30 02:48:31 <destinal> ~apple
Jul 30 02:48:33 <infobot> apple is a "different" computer company :). They are currently known for the iMac, eMac, PowerMac, XServe, iPod, iBook, and Titanium Powerbook. Their computers use (motorola) PowerPC processors, of the G3 (750) and G4 (74XX) nature. the G4 processor has vector processing known as "altivec". Apple can be found at http://www.apple.com, or apple recently adopted the G5 (ibm) processor which kicks butt
Jul 30 02:48:33 * bougyman loves sprint
Jul 30 02:48:42 <destinal> wow that's old
Jul 30 02:48:44 <psykoz> Just think, without Apple, we'd have no protection from these things, they clearly are fighting off terrists, drug dealers and bad users to boot.  Just think if they weren't doing this, we'd all have terrists next door, drug dealers in our schools etc.
Jul 30 02:48:50 <Zuchmir2> why what's wrong w/GV?
Jul 30 02:49:11 <bougyman> Zuchmir2: free sms, for one.
Jul 30 02:49:12 <destinal> right, it's a great thing they're protecting us from google voice
Jul 30 02:49:25 <bougyman> and lower rate international calls
Jul 30 02:49:26 <psykoz> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10298646-1.html
Jul 30 02:49:35 <bougyman> at&t to Yemen: $2.33/minute
Jul 30 02:49:36 <psykoz> "Jailbreaking iPhone could pose threat to national security, Apple claims"
Jul 30 02:49:45 <bougyman> google voice: .38/minute
Jul 30 02:49:50 <bougyman> or was that Dubai
Jul 30 02:49:52 <Epyon1> lol
Jul 30 02:49:53 <bougyman> one of those two
Jul 30 02:49:59 <bougyman> we had to route one through google voice the other day for that.
Jul 30 02:50:02 <Epyon1> have you hear abou the iphon hack?
Jul 30 02:50:13 <Epyon1> some sms bug to take over all iphones
Jul 30 02:50:19 <tlp> Is the new terminal application developed with the Mojo SDK? i.e. could it become a 'legitimate' Palm app?
Jul 30 02:50:23 <psykoz> Epyon, yah will reveal at blackhat ;)
Jul 30 02:50:34 <bougyman> tlp: problem would be distributing the .so, i think.
Jul 30 02:50:46 <tlp> ah
Jul 30 02:51:01 <tlp> granted, I don't know if Palm would approve a terminal anyway
Jul 30 02:51:10 <bougyman> i wouldn't, if I were them.
Jul 30 02:51:24 <bougyman> I wouldn't allow as much access to it that I have, unless they really want us making apps.
Jul 30 02:51:31 <tlp> I mostly just want ssh access
Jul 30 02:51:35 <tlp> a client, that is
Jul 30 02:51:37 <bougyman> but if they really wanted us making apps why don't they have a way for us to distribute them?
Jul 30 02:51:46 <bougyman> i'm confused about this.
Jul 30 02:51:50 <psykoz> bougyman, they do, through them ;)
Jul 30 02:52:02 <bougyman> i'm still waiting on a response about that.
Jul 30 02:52:09 <Epyon1> yeah they want all control of th apps
Jul 30 02:52:10 <bougyman> who do I distribute through them?
Jul 30 02:52:16 <bougyman> er how
Jul 30 02:52:32 <bougyman> i submitted my app idea to them.
Jul 30 02:54:20 <Zuchmir2> bougyman: why wouldnt u want to use GV's DID, that u waiting impatintly for anor DID co?
Jul 30 02:54:37 <bougyman> Zuchmir2: i was paid to do it.
Jul 30 02:54:40 <bougyman> this is a client's company
Jul 30 02:54:53 <bougyman> we do custom phone switches (freeswitch based)
Jul 30 02:54:56 <bougyman> he needed one
Jul 30 02:55:05 <Zuchmir2> oh, ok
Jul 30 02:55:08 <bougyman> we got suckered into doing the web app for him, though.
Jul 30 02:55:11 <bougyman> which just sucks
Jul 30 02:55:14 <bougyman> i hate webapps.
Jul 30 02:55:21 <bougyman> i like backend work.
Jul 30 02:55:45 <bougyman> we wrote freeswitcher to control freeswitch, i want to get the accompanying administration tools done for it.
Jul 30 02:56:01 <bougyman> so it's a full-fledged gui carrier-grade switch and nice pbx.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 30 02:59:57 2009