**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Aug 11 02:59:57 2009
Aug 11 03:00:21 <Decimation_> s/irssa/irssi... whats that mean
Aug 11 03:00:25 <Decimation_> ive seen you guys do that a few times
Aug 11 03:00:27 <Decimation_> lol
Aug 11 03:00:39 <gkatsev> Decimation_: s/match/replaced/
Aug 11 03:00:42 <gkatsev> s/replaced/replace
Aug 11 03:00:50 <gkatsev> crap...
Aug 11 03:00:52 <tlz> uhhh
Aug 11 03:00:57 <gkatsev> s/.../!/
Aug 11 03:00:57 <infobot> gkatsev meant: crap!
Aug 11 03:01:00 <tlz> yeah, what is this irssi you speak of!
Aug 11 03:01:09 <gkatsev> tlz: it's an irc client
Aug 11 03:01:12 <tlz> WERD
Aug 11 03:01:16 <tlz> irc on teh pre
Aug 11 03:01:18 <tlz> must have
Aug 11 03:01:45 <Decimation_> yeah, i want it, dunno how to get it though
Aug 11 03:01:47 <Decimation_> :/
Aug 11 03:02:05 <gkatsev> you type in "ipkg -o /var install irssi"
Aug 11 03:02:12 <gkatsev> and then you can run it in the terminal app
Aug 11 03:02:34 <Decimation_> "Cannot find package irssi."
Aug 11 03:02:46 <tlz> ipkg -o /var update
Aug 11 03:03:50 <Decimation_> still no luck
Aug 11 03:03:59 <tlz> hmmm
Aug 11 03:04:02 <tlz> me too actually lol
Aug 11 03:05:01 <gkatsev> is filesystem writable and are you sudoing the command/running as root?
Aug 11 03:06:17 <tlz> hmm
Aug 11 03:06:43 <rwhitby> ipkg-opt, no -o /var, for optware
Aug 11 03:07:03 <gkatsev> right, -o /var is preware
Aug 11 03:07:42 <rwhitby> ipkg-opt
Aug 11 03:07:56 <tlz> ahhh
Aug 11 03:07:58 <tlz> there she goes
Aug 11 03:08:21 <NetWhiz> Dang, missed the services fun!
Aug 11 03:08:27 <bsdbandit> cool
Aug 11 03:09:18 <NetWhiz> I am so tired of people saying that the webOS will not have any killer apps/games like the iPhone b/c of it being JS/HTML based. There will be something or some way ...
Aug 11 03:10:17 <bsdbandit> yes
Aug 11 03:10:23 <bsdbandit> i hear you net wiz
Aug 11 03:16:27 <egaudet> Rick_home, did you do any work with the look of the keyboard, i.e. size, dimensions etc...?
Aug 11 03:20:39 <Rick_home> egaudet:  no,
Aug 11 03:20:50 <Rick_home> I was trying to focus on getting the normal alphabet into it first.
Aug 11 03:26:30 <egaudet> what does Mojo.Controller()"s constructor do with the model element?  does it go in this.model?
Aug 11 03:27:02 <bsdbandit> does the reboot command from the command line reboot the palm pre as if you were tuning it off
Aug 11 03:27:05 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 11 03:27:54 <Decimation_> yay, i figured out how to show more apps in a row on the launcher :)
Aug 11 03:28:09 <Decimation_> almost perfected, still expierementing
Aug 11 03:29:52 <bsdbandit> does anyone know what dir the palm log png resides in
Aug 11 03:29:53 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 11 03:30:34 <Decimation_> how do i take a screen shot?
Aug 11 03:31:15 <Decimation_> orange+symbol+p
Aug 11 03:31:17 <Decimation_> nice :)
Aug 11 03:33:41 <bsdbandit> my pre is staying on the palm screen a long time
Aug 11 03:33:43 <bsdbandit> :/
Aug 11 03:33:46 <bsdbandit> im not liking this
Aug 11 03:34:06 <Decimation_> it always does that :P
Aug 11 03:34:11 <Decimation_> its called shitty boot time :)
Aug 11 03:34:35 <bsdbandit> oh ok
Aug 11 03:34:42 <bsdbandit> so i just have to wait it out
Aug 11 03:34:43 <bsdbandit> o k
Aug 11 03:35:08 <bsdbandit> is there a way to enable verbose booting on this divice
Aug 11 03:35:09 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 11 03:35:11 <bsdbandit> device
Aug 11 03:37:57 <Rick_home> not yet no
Aug 11 03:38:23 <Rick_home> bsdbandit:  log is in /var/log
Aug 11 03:38:38 <bsdbandit> i  think i bricked it
Aug 11 03:38:44 <bsdbandit> its still on the palm logo
Aug 11 03:39:03 <egaudet> doubt it
Aug 11 03:39:05 <Decimation> any of you guys interested in this?
Aug 11 03:39:07 <Decimation> http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2140/unknown20091008233442.png
Aug 11 03:39:21 <egaudet> sweet
Aug 11 03:39:35 <bsdbandit> cool
Aug 11 03:39:42 <Decimation> some guy on precentral posted a thread asking for it
Aug 11 03:39:46 <destinal> what are we looking at?
Aug 11 03:39:54 <Decimation> should i release, idk, its kinda weird to me
Aug 11 03:40:00 <egaudet> much better than the default 3
Aug 11 03:40:03 <destinal> changing dock icons?
Aug 11 03:40:08 <bsdbandit> i thought there was documentation on this site on how to unbrick the palm pre
Aug 11 03:40:08 <egaudet> 4 in a row
Aug 11 03:40:10 <Decimation> destinal: the pages.. the have 4 icons in a row instead of 3
Aug 11 03:40:20 <destinal> ah, can you do even more?
Aug 11 03:40:35 <Decimation> yeah
Aug 11 03:40:39 <Decimation> it gets pretty sloppy
Aug 11 03:40:42 <destinal> and isn't there a patch already to enable this btw?
Aug 11 03:40:43 <Decimation> and more will take more work
Aug 11 03:40:54 <Decimation> will have to start resizing icons
Aug 11 03:41:09 <destinal> wait nevermind
Aug 11 03:41:12 <Decimation> i dont think there is a patch for it?
Aug 11 03:41:13 <destinal> I think the patch is only for pages
Aug 11 03:41:17 <destinal> not for more icons on dock
Aug 11 03:41:17 <Decimation> yeah
Aug 11 03:41:39 <destinal> so this is that json file right?
Aug 11 03:42:05 <destinal> I know there's one that defines which icons
Aug 11 03:42:37 <Decimation> help me find a the file that decides how big icons show up as
Aug 11 03:42:41 <Decimation> lol
Aug 11 03:42:49 <destinal> hmm
Aug 11 03:42:51 <destinal> sure
Aug 11 03:42:57 <Decimation> ive looked
Aug 11 03:43:10 <Decimation> right now this is kinda sloppy because idk where to change that
Aug 11 03:44:36 <Decimation> would you rather have 4 horizontally, or 4 vertically?
Aug 11 03:45:14 <Decimation> nah, nvm, horizontally is probably better.
Aug 11 03:46:24 <Zuchmir2> Decimation: how did u do 4 in a row?
Aug 11 03:46:47 <Decimation> just messing with the launcher-assistant file
Aug 11 03:49:43 <Decimation> lol, i modified the global-search-assistant file so that instead of typing upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart
Aug 11 03:49:45 <Decimation> you just type
Aug 11 03:49:47 <Decimation> "dev"
Aug 11 03:49:48 <Decimation> so much nicer.
Aug 11 03:50:44 <bsdbandit> its still on the palm logo
Aug 11 03:50:49 <bsdbandit> how do i power this thing down
Aug 11 03:50:56 <quotemstr_> Decimation: I installed ssh. I don't need to type the code ever.
Aug 11 03:51:10 <quotemstr_> Decimation: Why bother turning on the code after the initial installation?
Aug 11 03:51:25 <Decimation> who knows :P
Aug 11 03:51:38 <Decimation> i have ssh installed also, hence how im browsing these files.. (winscp)
Aug 11 03:51:44 <Decimation> but i like making thinks easier
Aug 11 03:51:56 <Decimation> things*
Aug 11 03:53:35 <quotemstr_> A set up ssh key login and dynamic DNS.
Aug 11 03:53:44 <quotemstr_> All I need to do is type 'ssh myphone.example.com' and I'm in.
Aug 11 03:54:26 <Decimation> all i do is open winscp and double click my saved profile
Aug 11 03:54:28 <Decimation> and im in :P
Aug 11 03:55:10 <quotemstr_> I bet I can type that faster than you can click your profile.
Aug 11 03:57:05 <egaudet> alias pre 'ssh -p 222 mypre.mypre.com'
Aug 11 03:57:06 <egaudet> i win!
Aug 11 03:57:12 <bsdbandit> can someone help me out
Aug 11 03:57:16 <bsdbandit> im bricked and floating
Aug 11 03:57:22 <egaudet> try removing battery
Aug 11 03:57:29 <quotemstr_> bsdbandit: Have you eaten any little paper squares lately?
Aug 11 03:57:29 <egaudet> unplugging, remove battery, reinsert, turn on
Aug 11 03:58:37 <egaudet> if you have an eventhandler listening to a mouse event, the mouse event triggers, you do what you gotta do, do you have to setup your handler again?
Aug 11 04:02:37 <bsdbandit> ok
Aug 11 04:02:38 <egaudet> hmmmmmm
Aug 11 04:05:28 <bsdbandit> how do you remove the battery
Aug 11 04:08:02 <Decimation> wheres the file that handles the quicklaunch bar?
Aug 11 04:09:49 <egaudet> Rick_home, were you able to successfully capture multiple mouse events with the keyboard up?
Aug 11 04:10:45 <Rick_home> egaudet:   no
Aug 11 04:10:56 <Rick_home> I had to have a handler fire for each event
Aug 11 04:11:16 <Rick_home> ohhhh with the altchar keyboard up
Aug 11 04:11:18 <Rick_home> right
Aug 11 04:11:20 <Rick_home> sorry.
Aug 11 04:11:22 <Rick_home> uh
Aug 11 04:11:26 <Rick_home> no.   but I wasn't trying to
Aug 11 04:11:35 <Rick_home> I was trying to get MY CHARACTERS into their keyboard first.
Aug 11 04:11:50 <egaudet> in general though, an event handler should be called each time the event is triggered when it is set to listen right?
Aug 11 04:16:17 <Rick_home> yes
Aug 11 04:16:53 <egaudet> ok i see what i missed
Aug 11 04:25:47 <bsdbandit> im ok now
Aug 11 04:25:54 <bsdbandit> the battery saved me
Aug 11 04:34:07 <bsdbandit> hey rick
Aug 11 04:34:30 <bsdbandit> hope you didnt mind i make a change on how to recover the palm pre
Aug 11 04:35:49 <egaudet> are /**/ comments in .json files ignored?
Aug 11 04:39:18 <Decimation> everything inside the /* and */
Aug 11 04:40:13 <Decimation> egaudet: so yeah, those and everything inside are ignored.
Aug 11 04:40:17 <oc80z> whats good
Aug 11 04:40:26 <Decimation> hi oc80z
Aug 11 04:40:27 <oc80z> ..think im due for another rehash :/
Aug 11 04:40:37 <egaudet> cool thanks!  The difficult parts are just about done :)
Aug 11 04:41:23 <Decimation> egaudet: what are you doing?
Aug 11 04:41:54 <egaudet> onscreen keyboar
Aug 11 04:41:57 <egaudet> keyboard*
Aug 11 04:42:28 <oc80z> keep on keepin on
Aug 11 04:44:08 <destinal> Decimation: resizing the icons to make them smaller doesn't work, luna scales them up and they just become blurry
Aug 11 04:44:52 <destinal> also I can't find a setting to control that
Aug 11 04:44:55 <Decimation> destinal: aw man :(
Aug 11 04:45:10 <Decimation> we need to find where to control it
Aug 11 04:45:15 <Decimation> ill look into it sometime tonight.
Aug 11 04:47:34 <destinal> on the fun side imagemagick is in optware so I resized them on a webos device for use on itself. :)
Aug 11 04:47:43 <destinal> too bad it didn't help
Aug 11 04:48:20 <oc80z> how is optware-bootstrap.sh going
Aug 11 04:51:19 <Decimation> optware-bootstrap.sh... no modifications need to be made to that, do they?
Aug 11 04:51:42 <JackieRipper> it was updated to do quilt-lite
Aug 11 04:56:01 <oc80z> hmm?
Aug 11 04:56:04 <oc80z> yea
Aug 11 04:57:02 <egaudet> hey in the initialize() function, i don't have a this.controller yet?
Aug 11 04:59:08 <destinal> Decimation: looks like it's in css, I was able to change the size of the icons in the launcher popup, now to find the ones in the dock
Aug 11 04:59:33 <button> egaudet: nope, controller is set after/during setup()
Aug 11 04:59:55 <Decimation> wheres it located destinal?
Aug 11 05:00:15 <egaudet> button, is there anyway to access an element passed into my constructor at the time of initialize()?
Aug 11 05:00:56 <destinal> uh, somewhere under /usr/lib/luna/system/
Aug 11 05:01:13 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: the constructor of a function and initialize are the same
Aug 11 05:01:30 <PuffTheMagic> just depends if you use create or not
Aug 11 05:02:22 <PuffTheMagic> i mean, there are 2 styles of creating your js
Aug 11 05:02:34 <egaudet> A) so in intialize() i want to access the 3 parameter, do i have to redefine initialize to take 3 parameters?  And B) if initialize() says this.var = x, do i do this.controller.var to access it from setup or still this.var?
Aug 11 05:02:53 <destinal> Decimation:  I think the launcher ones are  #app-icon  in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/stylesheets/launcher.css
Aug 11 05:03:00 <destinal> I changed a lot so I have to recheck
Aug 11 05:03:40 <Decimation> ill just check
Aug 11 05:03:42 <Decimation> restarting luna now
Aug 11 05:04:27 <destinal> meh, I don't know which one I changed, but it's in the css somewhere.  I should have made better notes.
Aug 11 05:04:39 <destinal> I recommend doing it on the emulator, restarting luna is much faster there
Aug 11 05:06:11 <Decimation> destinal: meh, im just so used to this.. lol
Aug 11 05:06:24 <destinal> sloooow on a pre
Aug 11 05:06:26 <destinal> too slow
Aug 11 05:06:32 <egaudet> Can I create a class that inherits everything from another, and overwrite one method only
Aug 11 05:07:17 <Decimation> destinal: #app-icon doesnt seem to be it
Aug 11 05:07:29 <Decimation> i made it 1x1 and i see no difference.. lol
Aug 11 05:07:55 <button> egaudet: yes, through prototype. Check the prototype.js docs for Class.create.
Aug 11 05:08:26 <button> you can also do it with raw javascript but you will not have access to the super class
Aug 11 05:08:28 <atlanta> gonna try to make a audio recording app 2mro
Aug 11 05:08:31 <oc80z> ....
Aug 11 05:08:32 <oc80z> fail
Aug 11 05:08:38 <oc80z> cant get evdo to activate :D
Aug 11 05:08:43 <Decimation> atlanta: do it please :)
Aug 11 05:08:44 <oc80z> downtown boston , outstanding.
Aug 11 05:08:52 <atlanta> Decimation: yea will be real basic
Aug 11 05:09:02 <destinal> Decimation: ok   "sed -i s/64px/32px/ launcher.css"   works  but it's not the right way obviously, so I need to figure out which setting it was :)
Aug 11 05:09:03 <atlanta> just got my music player on the phone to read the one i recorded
Aug 11 05:09:03 <Decimation> i wouldnt expect anything more.
Aug 11 05:09:20 <atlanta> and it plays back fine
Aug 11 05:09:25 <atlanta> so look for something 2mro
Aug 11 05:09:26 <Decimation> lol, found it
Aug 11 05:09:26 <destinal> Decimation: that's just the launcher scrollable list though, no help for the dock icons
Aug 11 05:09:42 <Decimation> .draggable {
Aug 11 05:09:43 <Decimation> 	width:1px;
Aug 11 05:09:45 <Decimation> 	height:1px;
Aug 11 05:09:47 <Decimation> 	margin: 0 auto;
Aug 11 05:09:48 <Decimation> 	-webkit-user-drag: any;
Aug 11 05:09:49 <Decimation> 	-webkit-user-select: none;
Aug 11 05:09:51 <Decimation> }
Aug 11 05:09:52 <Decimation> did the trick
Aug 11 05:09:56 <egaudet> hmmmm ok ok
Aug 11 05:10:13 <atlanta> good night guys see you 2mro
Aug 11 05:10:23 <Decimation> atlanta: nighty night :)
Aug 11 05:10:27 <atlanta> destinal: do you know how to add encoders to gstreamer?
Aug 11 05:10:44 <destinal> Decimation: heh, your 1px icons are hillarious
Aug 11 05:10:55 <Decimation> lol, they look great.
Aug 11 05:11:14 <destinal> atlanta: not offhand, you'd want to compile them and copy them over but I know nothing about gstreamer
Aug 11 05:11:32 <Decimation> destinal: any luck on decreasing text size ?
Aug 11 05:12:13 <destinal> yup
Aug 11 05:12:22 <destinal> .launcher_page .name {
Aug 11 05:12:22 <destinal>     font-size: 4px;
Aug 11 05:12:24 <destinal> is funny
Aug 11 05:12:36 <Decimation> lol, looking at 10 right now
Aug 11 05:12:36 <atlanta> destinal: ok ill look into it
Aug 11 05:12:39 <Decimation> whoa, this is fun :)
Aug 11 05:13:12 <egaudet> button, There is an initialization() that sets this.table = something;  Now in my setup() function I want to modify that, how would I acess it?
Aug 11 05:13:51 <button> switching to #webos
Aug 11 05:13:56 <destinal> Decimation: so where's the css for the dock, I wonder, or does it even have any
Aug 11 05:14:22 <Decimation> i saw dock size info in the launcher assistant
Aug 11 05:14:24 <Decimation> but that was it
Aug 11 05:19:23 <oc80z> ..running into cdma modem issues, following bottom of bypass activation,
Aug 11 05:20:52 <destinal> Decimation: ok so it's NOT launcher.css, I lobotomized it, removed it, and no change
Aug 11 05:21:21 <Decimation> destinal: lol, im all out of ideas.
Aug 11 05:22:40 <destinal> yup, this time I totally removed  or renamed the /usr/lib/luna/system/launcher directory and launching anything not on the dock fails, but the dock itself is fine
Aug 11 05:24:11 <destinal> the emulator is great, it's fun to trash a running webos and know you can just --reset to get it back
Aug 11 05:24:13 <Eguy> Can anyone tell me what invalid magic means?
Aug 11 05:25:01 <Eguy> trying to install an ipk with Terminal 0.1.6 I get invalid magic
Aug 11 05:25:01 <destinal> Eguy: have you said all the right incantations?  your sorcery may be less powerful than normal
Aug 11 05:25:12 <Eguy> lol
Aug 11 05:25:25 <Eguy> I need the nimbus 3000
Aug 11 05:25:35 <destinal> Eguy: magic in this case is a special sequence of bits in a file that identify its file type
Aug 11 05:25:52 <destinal> your ipk may be corrupt or a bad format
Aug 11 05:26:00 <destinal> try "ipkg-opt install file"
Aug 11 05:26:05 <destinal> then "file whatever.ipk"
Aug 11 05:26:12 <Eguy> I need to put it in var
Aug 11 05:26:18 <button> are you out of disk space?
Aug 11 05:26:26 <Eguy> Nope
Aug 11 05:26:35 <button> (emulated disk space)
Aug 11 05:26:37 <button> heh
Aug 11 05:26:42 <Eguy> my var is fine
Aug 11 05:26:49 <destinal> literally the word file
Aug 11 05:26:50 <Eguy> I removed the offending perl :P
Aug 11 05:27:03 <destinal> file is a program that identifies file type
Aug 11 05:27:07 <destinal> using magic
Aug 11 05:27:14 <Decimation> destinal: well, i made my launcher look pretty neat...
Aug 11 05:27:20 <Eguy> I'tt try with filecoaster
Aug 11 05:27:22 <oc80z> yawn heh
Aug 11 05:27:44 <destinal> Decimation: I removed launcher and luna-systemui
Aug 11 05:27:56 <destinal> I get a black screen on boot but a proper dock over that
Aug 11 05:28:01 <Decimation> loll
Aug 11 05:28:12 <destinal> so we know dock comes from elsewhere
Aug 11 05:28:26 <Decimation> must be fun completely trashing webos? :P
Aug 11 05:28:34 <destinal> hehe, yeah
Aug 11 05:29:18 <oc80z> notepad++ is nice for win
Aug 11 05:29:38 <destinal> yeah it doesn't depend on /usr/lib/luna/system  (since mine is gone)
Aug 11 05:30:12 <destinal> doesn't even need /usr/lib/luna (that's gone too now)
Aug 11 05:30:52 <destinal> wonder if the dock's settings are only hard coded or in a config file
Aug 11 05:31:08 <Eguy> :O I just crashed webos for the first time
Aug 11 05:31:15 <Eguy> Pre just reset
Aug 11 05:31:25 <Eguy> *blows the party blower Yay!!!!!
Aug 11 05:31:37 <Decimation> destinal: lord, i hope not hard coded
Aug 11 05:31:59 <button> well you can change the launcher icons
Aug 11 05:32:04 <button> so it isn't hard coded
Aug 11 05:32:29 <button> er dock icons
Aug 11 05:33:02 <egaudet> ugh badly formed json!
Aug 11 05:33:54 <destinal> Decimation: aha, maybe my sysmgr card view was just cached
Aug 11 05:34:13 * destinal --resets 
Aug 11 05:34:31 <Decimation> lmao
Aug 11 05:34:35 <Decimation> destinal: http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5265/unknown20091108012618.png
Aug 11 05:35:27 <destinal> Decimation: what's different than normal?
Aug 11 05:35:36 <Decimation> text size, icon size, apps per row
Aug 11 05:35:42 <destinal> ah, cool
Aug 11 05:36:01 <Decimation> lol, i have overlapping text and everything
Aug 11 05:36:03 <Decimation> sososososososo sloppy
Aug 11 05:37:35 <destinal> oh, I just brought up a normal luna and I can easily see the diff
Aug 11 05:37:45 <destinal> mine was so warped yours looked fine :P
Aug 11 05:38:36 <Technobabble> fart machine?
Aug 11 05:38:38 <destinal> I like the 5 apps per row thing, can you make your text wrap under the icons?
Aug 11 05:39:30 <Decimation> i can try
Aug 11 05:39:32 <Decimation> lol
Aug 11 05:39:35 <destinal> css ftw
Aug 11 05:42:20 <Decimation> lol, idk wth im doing
Aug 11 05:42:39 <destinal> Decimation: ok I was wrong about the dock surviving systemui removal, it was just cached.  only way I've figured out so far to kill the cache entirely is:    initctl stop LunaSysMgr; mv /etc/palm /etc/palm.old; initctl start LunaSysMgr; initctl stop LunaSysMgr; mv /etc/palm.old /etc/palm; initctl start LunaSysMgr
Aug 11 05:43:39 <destinal> you should see my dock bar with just a launcher button in it :)
Aug 11 05:45:05 <Decimation> lol
Aug 11 05:45:10 <Decimation> if only i could :)
Aug 11 05:48:29 <Decimation> 57 apps
Aug 11 05:48:31 <Decimation> 4 pages
Aug 11 05:48:36 <Decimation> no vertical scrolling needed
Aug 11 05:48:38 <Decimation> not to bad :P
Aug 11 05:50:04 <oc80z> aefhaef
Aug 11 05:50:29 <Eguy> What is that Solitare app Decimation?
Aug 11 05:51:25 <oc80z> im getting out of memory issues with 7z
Aug 11 05:51:46 <oc80z> trying to put back the cdma fix in app-assistant.js
Aug 11 05:51:48 <Decimation> destinal: mine doesn't look too bad.
Aug 11 05:53:23 <destinal> hmm wish I knew where that cache was
Aug 11 05:53:45 <oc80z> clearly not out of ram
Aug 11 05:55:05 <oc80z> blah
Aug 11 05:55:19 <Decimation> destinal: any luck finding dock info.. i cant :/
Aug 11 05:55:55 <destinal> Decimation: I think it's in systemui
Aug 11 05:56:01 <egaudet> Alrighty!  I have a working on-screen keyboard :)  the same scroll box look as the symbols
Aug 11 05:56:04 <destinal> the problem is it's hard to get a change to take effect
Aug 11 05:56:14 <destinal> egaudet: congrats
Aug 11 05:57:17 <egaudet> thanks, the real work begins tomorrow with making it look better (qwerty, dimensions, special-key functionality)
Aug 11 05:58:23 <Xerran> Hola everyone
Aug 11 05:58:32 <oc80z> tu que tal
Aug 11 05:58:36 <egaudet> good night everyone, hopefully I'll be able to get a patch out in the next couple of days for the kb
Aug 11 05:58:41 <Xerran> ooops
Aug 11 05:58:47 <Xerran> sorry, I only know Hola
Aug 11 05:58:49 <Xerran> lol
Aug 11 05:59:01 <Eguy> Herro Xerran
Aug 11 05:59:05 <destinal> tiene root?
Aug 11 05:59:38 <Xerran> any of you guys attend the Pre Dev camp?
Aug 11 06:00:11 <Xerran> brb
Aug 11 06:00:27 <egaudet|Away> good job with the icons guys, keep it up :)
Aug 11 06:00:37 <Eguy> Nein Xerran
Aug 11 06:01:25 <destinal> oh where oh where has my little cache gone..
Aug 11 06:02:08 <Eguy> [/destinal/var/lib/cache -h]
Aug 11 06:02:21 <destinal> heh
Aug 11 06:02:46 <oc80z> da fawk
Aug 11 06:03:07 <Eguy> tony fawk?
Aug 11 06:04:13 <destinal> cd /usr/lib/luna/system; mv luna-systemui hiding; pkill LunaSysMgr
Aug 11 06:04:14 <destinal> doesn't make the dock go away properly, but really its code is gone from the fs, just cached
Aug 11 06:07:39 <Decimation> the solitare app on precentral
Aug 11 06:07:39 <Decimation> im goin to bed
Aug 11 06:07:39 <Decimation> night
Aug 11 06:07:47 <destinal> night
Aug 11 06:07:50 <Eguy-hunghimself> cya
Aug 11 06:08:05 <destinal> Eguy-hunghimself: you're still alive?  cool
Aug 11 06:08:20 <Eguy-dead> Not anymore
Aug 11 06:08:26 <psykoz> Bye Eguy
Aug 11 06:08:36 <destinal> undead eguy?
Aug 11 06:08:40 <Eguy-dead> Nice knowing ya
Aug 11 06:09:02 <oc80z> the fawk
Aug 11 06:09:21 <Eguy-dead> Free wifi at the cemetery!
Aug 11 06:09:48 <destinal> meh, we've all got EVDO :)
Aug 11 06:10:07 <Eguy-dead> Oh yeah???
Aug 11 06:10:13 <Eguy-dead> Well I got WiMax
Aug 11 06:10:20 <destinal> ok, I'm going then
Aug 11 06:10:20 <Eguy-dead> on my Palm Pre 2 in heaven
Aug 11 06:10:33 <Eguy-dead> They finally fixed the Oreo!
Aug 11 06:10:49 <destinal> If wimax comes out in my area I'm getting an extended battery cover just to put a wimax dongle in and soldering that bad boy on
Aug 11 06:11:03 <oc80z> yea?
Aug 11 06:11:11 <oc80z> :/
Aug 11 06:11:29 <Eguy-dead> The Pre 2 has a 35 year battery life
Aug 11 06:11:32 <destinal> apparently clear has got it in vegas and a bunch of other places
Aug 11 06:11:32 <oc80z> im stuck on activation, no evdo
Aug 11 06:11:36 <Eguy-dead> thanks to nuclear power
Aug 11 06:11:52 <destinal> oc80z: sprint customer?
Aug 11 06:12:17 <Eguy-dead> LOL
Aug 11 06:12:40 <oc80z> yea
Aug 11 06:14:51 <destinal> oc80z: just have them fix it
Aug 11 06:15:16 <destinal> I've seen phones stop activating due to problems on their provisioning stuff
Aug 11 06:16:05 <destinal> kk going to bed, good night
Aug 11 06:16:26 <oc80z> ...
Aug 11 06:16:37 <oc80z> had to use powerarchiver to put up appassistant.js
Aug 11 06:16:50 <oc80z> yeah? whys that?
Aug 11 06:17:05 <destinal> dunno, sprint issues
Aug 11 06:17:20 <rwhitby> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1817242#post1817242 <- good to see the donate button is put in well before the app is functional :-)
Aug 11 06:17:34 <destinal> rwhitby: lmao
Aug 11 06:17:48 <rwhitby> that just speaks volumes about sections of the palm homebrew community.
Aug 11 06:18:16 <rwhitby> no offence to anyone - anyone is free to try and make money
Aug 11 06:18:18 <Xerran> oc80z: I had that same issue, you have to call sprint and they will give you some special code and it will be fixed
Aug 11 06:18:25 <destinal> rwhitby: Decimation and I were tweaking css, he got this going.  http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5265/unknown20091108012618.png
Aug 11 06:18:44 <destinal> (many screenshots of different panes)
Aug 11 06:19:22 <destinal> I was looking originally for ways to shrink the dock icons and I think it's there but has a very determined cache
Aug 11 06:19:35 <destinal> so I can't make the changes actually take effect
Aug 11 06:19:38 <rwhitby> donations used to be about people optionally rewarding an author for doing something useful.
Aug 11 06:20:15 <rwhitby> these days it seems that donations are being used in the pre homebrew community as (1) ransom for getting the latest version or (2) an 'advance' on getting any functionality at all
Aug 11 06:20:16 <destinal> rwhitby: in the case of some apps they're being used as a way to make pseudo-free but really-paid apps (by some, not saying this one is one that will)
Aug 11 06:20:46 <rwhitby> yeah, I want to be clear that I'm making a generalisation, not pointing a finger at this particular app
Aug 11 06:21:25 <rwhitby> hopefully the opening of the app store will clear all this up.  those will dollar signs as the primary motivator will have a clear outlet.
Aug 11 06:21:41 <rwhitby> s/those will/those with/
Aug 11 06:21:41 <infobot> rwhitby meant: hopefully the opening of the app store will clear all this up.  those with dollar signs as the primary motivator will have a clear outlet.
Aug 11 06:22:11 <oc80z> hrm
Aug 11 06:22:16 <oc80z> ok
Aug 11 06:22:59 <rwhitby> I fully support people making money off apps, and asking for donations.  Let's not muddy the distinction between those things, however.
Aug 11 06:23:15 <destinal> agree totally
Aug 11 06:23:22 <destinal> must sleep now, gn
Aug 11 06:23:26 <ka6sox> nn
Aug 11 06:24:07 <Xerran> good night
Aug 11 06:24:14 <oc80z> yea
Aug 11 06:24:43 <Xerran> oc80z: that evdo bug is annoying
Aug 11 06:25:07 <Xerran> I was going nutso trying to find a signal
Aug 11 06:25:49 <Xerran> take care all
Aug 11 06:28:52 <oc80z> i got a saved 5/28/2009 webOSDoctor.jar
Aug 11 06:29:21 <oc80z> build 42.18
Aug 11 06:29:24 <oc80z> 41.118
Aug 11 06:34:03 <rwhitby> oc80z: does it match one of the versions on our webos doctor versions wiki page?
Aug 11 06:34:44 <oc80z> possibly, was before last major update
Aug 11 06:34:59 <oc80z> was going to edit it and confirm it
Aug 11 06:35:21 <oc80z> ...webos doctor wont even detect the phone now , yikes
Aug 11 06:35:23 <rwhitby> http://twitter.com/webOSdev/following
Aug 11 06:37:52 <oc80z> ill holla at sprint
Aug 11 06:38:35 <oc80z> ah i thought they removed that ah... hard reset
Aug 11 06:42:01 <Eguy-dead> http://omegle.com/
Aug 11 06:43:05 <oc80z> factory reset
Aug 11 06:44:30 <oc80z> that u eguy
Aug 11 06:44:42 <oc80z> 1 out of 4500 or so hah
Aug 11 06:46:54 <Eguy-dead> nope
Aug 11 06:47:04 <Eguy-dead> I am on there though lol
Aug 11 06:49:20 <oc80z> hrm
Aug 11 06:49:32 <oc80z> airbubbles on the pre are growing like h1n1
Aug 11 06:51:38 <oc80z> destinal: I've seen phones stop activating due to problems on their provisioning stuff
Aug 11 06:51:46 <oc80z> ugk, totally right
Aug 11 07:01:16 <MrJester> hello?
Aug 11 07:03:22 <MrJester> hello?
Aug 11 07:03:41 <oc80z> ffs
Aug 11 07:05:05 <MrJester> So I am trying to root my pre but when im trying to run the optware-bootstrap.sh Dropbear SSH daemon can not initiate.
Aug 11 07:05:10 <MrJester> Anyone know anything about that?
Aug 11 07:06:01 <oc80z> so during
Aug 11 07:06:18 <oc80z> the optware-bootsrap script, it says it cannot initiate? what are the errors?
Aug 11 07:08:57 <oc80z> jester?
Aug 11 07:09:15 <oc80z> i'll be going through the same process with ya in a min
Aug 11 07:09:25 <MrJester> yea
Aug 11 07:09:26 <MrJester> sorry
Aug 11 07:09:32 <MrJester> i was trying to work with the pre
Aug 11 07:09:46 <MrJester> lemme try to find the errors in the log file
Aug 11 07:11:43 <MrJester> Ok, so the error is in Dropbear SSH daemon starting up.
Aug 11 07:11:48 <MrJester> It follows:
Aug 11 07:12:12 <MrJester> initctl: (05756/751132553) Unknown job: optware-dropbear
Aug 11 07:12:28 <MrJester> ERROR: Failed to start the Dropbear SSH daemon:
Aug 11 07:13:01 <MrJester> although it says Dropbear is already installed and no upgrades are available.
Aug 11 07:13:11 <MrJester> Some with OpenSSH and OpenSSH sFTP
Aug 11 07:13:16 <MrJester> same ^
Aug 11 07:18:38 <oc80z> oh
Aug 11 07:18:50 <oc80z> what?
Aug 11 07:19:04 <MrJester> Hmmm
Aug 11 07:19:06 <MrJester> Nevermind
Aug 11 07:19:48 <MrJester> I have the pre rooted just cant get the optware bootstrap thing to install
Aug 11 07:19:53 <MrJester> i guess ill deal with that later
Aug 11 07:19:55 <MrJester> thanks anyways
Aug 11 07:19:55 <oc80z> are you in
Aug 11 07:19:57 <oc80z> /
Aug 11 07:20:02 <MrJester> yea
Aug 11 07:20:08 <MrJester> I can access root
Aug 11 07:20:17 <MrJester> just cant get the optware script to finish running
Aug 11 07:21:53 <oc80z> hrm
Aug 11 07:21:55 <oc80z> ok
Aug 11 07:21:56 <oc80z> hang on
Aug 11 07:23:11 <oc80z> why not ah
Aug 11 07:23:13 <oc80z> edit the script?
Aug 11 09:49:39 <oc80z> root@castle:/# ./optware-bootstrap.sh
Aug 11 09:52:35 <oc80z> root@castle:/# ./quilt-bootstrap.sh
Aug 11 10:25:17 <oc80z> bada ba ching ching
Aug 11 11:04:26 <FreeTim31> Can I ask a dumb n00b question - can i use reflection (typeof command) to look into mojo properties
Aug 11 11:10:10 <zomg> FreeTim: anything that works with javascript works with mojo because mojo is javascript ;>
Aug 11 11:11:21 <FreeTim> thanks zomg.   Digging out my old js books, blowing dust offa them
Aug 11 12:11:43 <CIA-29> rod * raf6c434d8641 bootstrap/quilt-bootstrap.sh - quilt-bootstrap: Now uses quilt-lite instead of quilt
Aug 11 12:11:44 <CIA-29> jack * ra3350ea61aca bootstrap/quilt-bootstrap.sh - Added prompting for uninstalling quilt, perl, libdb and gdbm, and installing quilt-lite -JackieRipper
Aug 11 12:11:47 <CIA-29> rod * r900b69330916 bootstrap/quilt-bootstrap.sh - Removed quilt-lite dependency on util-linux-ng.
Aug 11 13:43:25 <Webizard> When trying to install optware i get "wget: server returned error: HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error"
Aug 11 13:45:49 <Webizard> i really dont want to do it the old way...
Aug 11 13:54:15 <Rick_Left_for_ho> Webizard  can you get that url from your browser?
Aug 11 13:54:43 <Rick_work> webos-internals underwent a substantial update yesterday
Aug 11 13:54:49 <Rick_work> and something might be broken
Aug 11 13:55:15 <Webizard> I got the url b4 it went down, but it was the same after
Aug 11 13:57:29 <Webizard> i was looking at it with my pre's browser... aparently it just cutoff after blobs/
Aug 11 13:57:38 <Webizard> should work fine now
Aug 11 14:01:01 <xalbo> Apropos of nothing: I find myself constantly wanting an equivlant of Greasemonkey, or at least Stylish for the Pre browser.
Aug 11 14:11:56 <Rick_work> What I want is for them to update to a more current webkit build that supports transform and canvas better.
Aug 11 14:43:17 <nebula> fyi: google calendar is dead
Aug 11 14:45:17 <czarphanguye> ffs, my pre got a drop of water on it, now the power button is 'stuck' and the power off screen keeps popping on and off. ;-(
Aug 11 14:45:59 <nebula> hairdryer
Aug 11 14:46:00 <dijital1> is it possible to tether with the pre and recieve/make phone calls?
Aug 11 14:46:05 <nebula> on cold
Aug 11 14:46:21 <czarphanguye> nebula: thanks, I'll give that a try.  atm it's sitting in a bowl of rice ;-x
Aug 11 14:47:43 <nebula> be sure the battery is out
Aug 11 14:48:04 <nebula> dijital1: not on sprint's network
Aug 11 14:49:39 <dijital1> hrm
Aug 11 14:50:23 <dijital1> is that a sprint technology limitation or something that's enforced by the handset itself?
Aug 11 14:51:13 <czarphanguye> nebula: how long would you recommend I run the hairdryer?
Aug 11 14:51:15 <PuffTheMagic> dijital1:just use IP forwarding/NAT
Aug 11 14:51:26 <epyon22> dijital1: i think its a limitation of cdma
Aug 11 14:51:35 <dijital1> ok
Aug 11 14:51:42 <PuffTheMagic> lol, no its not a limitation of cdma
Aug 11 14:52:02 <PuffTheMagic> how do u suppose to make make an outgoing call to #777 and recieve incoming call
Aug 11 14:52:15 <dijital1> because i currently have an iphone and considering the pre but I want to make sure that I'm not losing functionality
Aug 11 14:52:34 <dijital1> with the iphone you can tether and make/receive calls
Aug 11 14:52:57 <PuffTheMagic> you can do ipforwarding/nat over wifi/bluetooth/usbnet and still make calls
Aug 11 14:53:05 <nebula> czarphanguye: if it's on the cold setting, a few minutes
Aug 11 14:53:09 <nebula> maybe a foot back
Aug 11 14:53:10 <PuffTheMagic> forget "teathering"
Aug 11 14:53:50 <dijital1> alright...
Aug 11 14:54:06 <destinal> czarphanguye: hairdryer?  this sounds scary (goes to check logs)
Aug 11 14:54:07 <raeb1> PuffTheMagic: doesn't your data pause while on phone
Aug 11 14:54:08 <nebula> PuffTheMagic: but not the evdo net
Aug 11 14:54:20 <czarphanguye> destinal: lol ;-)
Aug 11 14:54:43 <destinal> a *drop* of water? wow
Aug 11 14:55:01 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: what the status of the confirmationdaemon thing
Aug 11 14:55:59 <PuffTheMagic> raeb1: hmm
Aug 11 14:56:02 <dijital1> what about being able to shoot video. I'm still looking through webos-internals site to see if anyone has done a homebrew as yet
Aug 11 14:56:08 <PuffTheMagic> raeb1: how does a 3-way call work?
Aug 11 14:56:13 <czarphanguye> yeah, no kidding.  moved a cup of cold water over it, and the condensation from the bottom of the cup 'dripped'
Aug 11 14:56:15 <raeb1> all cellular
Aug 11 14:56:21 <raeb1> dont need data at all for 3way call
Aug 11 14:56:40 <atlanta> hello
Aug 11 14:56:44 <destinal> yeah, data pauses on a call, I think that's CDMA
Aug 11 14:56:48 <PuffTheMagic> right but data/voice should still be using same hardware
Aug 11 14:56:52 <atlanta> destinal: your correct
Aug 11 14:57:13 <atlanta> thats why CDMA voice is better than GSM's
Aug 11 14:57:36 <dijital1> as in the quality? but it can't do both data and voice at the same time?
Aug 11 14:57:40 <destinal> more dedicated bandwidth, etc?  hmm
Aug 11 14:59:01 <psykoz> Every sprint phone I've had that has evdo on it had to pause data while call came in
Aug 11 14:59:11 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: re confirmation daemon I have not much more than sketches.. people are waiting on me to do other pieces, aren't they?   :-/
Aug 11 14:59:52 <dijital1> so no browsing the web while on a phone call?
Aug 11 14:59:55 <atlanta> dijital1: yea quality wise
Aug 11 15:00:07 <destinal> bbl
Aug 11 15:00:21 <atlanta> dijital1: you have to turn on wifi
Aug 11 15:00:22 <atlanta> to do it
Aug 11 15:00:38 <dijital1> I see... well that's not very appealing
Aug 11 15:00:41 <atlanta> dijital1: but yea no evdo/1x internet while on a call
Aug 11 15:00:42 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: what other peices
Aug 11 15:01:11 <atlanta> im gonna make a voice recorder today so how that turns out
Aug 11 15:01:34 <gkatsev> yeah, thats the only downside to evdo...
Aug 11 15:02:58 <dijital1> I see
Aug 11 15:05:10 <psykoz> it appears sprint would have had to implement EV-DV if they wanted full duplex capabilities for simultaneous voice/data
Aug 11 15:05:32 <dijital1> does verizon have that?
Aug 11 15:05:47 <psykoz> no
Aug 11 15:05:48 <dijital1> that's probably cost prohibitive to do
Aug 11 15:10:01 <PuffTheMagic> well i would rather not have that
Aug 11 15:10:08 <PuffTheMagic> data speeds are nice on evdo
Aug 11 15:10:12 <PuffTheMagic> voice quality is nice
Aug 11 15:10:30 <dijital1> yes but so is multitasking is too
Aug 11 15:10:49 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Aug 11 15:11:02 <PuffTheMagic> how are u gonna use the internet and talk on the phone at the same time
Aug 11 15:12:23 <bpadalino|work> bluetooth
Aug 11 15:12:59 <PuffTheMagic> so you are worried about your torrent download from pausing?
Aug 11 15:13:48 <bpadalino|work> setting up plans to meet up with someone, need to see if the place we're considering is still open .. maybe call for reservations but don't have the number handy
Aug 11 15:14:36 <PuffTheMagic> yet you are somewhere with out real wifi with a laptop?
Aug 11 15:14:44 <PuffTheMagic> seems like a rare event
Aug 11 15:15:20 <bpadalino|work> i am often at a place without a laptop or wifi
Aug 11 15:15:58 <PuffTheMagic> so then if you are talking on the phone i would think it would be pretty hard to use the browser on the phone at the same time
Aug 11 15:16:00 <bpadalino|work> either way - you're arguing that someone's use case isn't yours, therefore doesn't exist
Aug 11 15:16:07 <bpadalino|work> bluetooth
Aug 11 15:16:27 <PuffTheMagic> oh bt headset
Aug 11 15:16:32 <bpadalino|work> moreover, it's a convergence device - this is what it is meant to do
Aug 11 15:17:02 <bpadalino|work> if i am on the phone and setting up a meeting while on a train ...
Aug 11 15:17:26 <PuffTheMagic> im not arguing against someone cause, i was trying to find out what the scenario actually is
Aug 11 15:17:39 <PuffTheMagic> where that would be needed
Aug 11 15:18:43 <bpadalino|work> ah, so now you know
Aug 11 15:19:37 <dijital1> puff I do it all the time
Aug 11 15:19:51 <dijital1> headphones or speakerphones
Aug 11 15:20:43 <raeb1> destinal: did you get that sandwich made for me, yet ?
Aug 11 15:20:59 <dijital1> a common issue is when I'm on the phone and I'm looking up the number for them that requires me searching google or using gps
Aug 11 15:21:04 <dijital1> that wouldn't work
Aug 11 15:21:08 <dijital1> and I do that pretty often
Aug 11 15:24:04 <PuffTheMagic> i've never had a service that allowed that so i've never developed that habbit... i would just call them back with the answer
Aug 11 15:24:16 <Robi_> raeb1: you try, "sudo make me a sandwich"?
Aug 11 15:24:59 <dijital1> well apple has ruined me then :-|
Aug 11 15:25:52 <epyon22> Robi_: hahaahha best joke ever
Aug 11 15:27:33 <czarphanguye> raeb1 Robi_, think it might be `sudo ./make >> sandwich"
Aug 11 15:27:47 <Robi_> no
Aug 11 15:27:56 <raeb1> rofl
Aug 11 15:28:30 <Robi_> this is an xkcd joke
Aug 11 15:28:33 <raeb1> gotta ./configure --meat=pastrami --cheese=provalone
Aug 11 15:28:50 <czarphanguye> +1 raeb1 :)
Aug 11 15:28:52 <Robi_> heh gota  syntax error there
Aug 11 15:29:21 <Robi_> http://xkcd.com/149/
Aug 11 15:29:32 * czarphanguye slaps Robi_ with a large trout
Aug 11 15:34:18 <ka6sox> Robi_, doesn't work with my wife!
Aug 11 15:38:35 <PuffTheMagic> czarphanguye: did you try some rubbing alcohol to unstick your button
Aug 11 15:39:17 <atlanta> im back
Aug 11 15:48:23 <NetWhiz> Who said you can not use the web while on a call on the Pre?
Aug 11 15:50:12 <gkatsev> NetWhiz: everyone, sprint
Aug 11 15:50:27 <jcrawford> NetWhiz, you cannot browse because evdo is turned off when you are on the phone
Aug 11 15:51:01 <jcrawford> i wonder if we could modify the phone app to *not* turn off EVDO when a call is active, wonder if it would work then
Aug 11 15:51:14 <jcrawford> though tit is probably more low-level than the phone app
Aug 11 15:51:19 <jcrawford> anyway lunch, bbl
Aug 11 15:52:07 <Rick_work> there is nothing in the evdo and cdma specs that prevent it.  The RADIO is capable of it, it is a sprint POLICY decision.  A pre on a different carrier would have different policies.
Aug 11 15:52:17 <Rick_work> altho verison also disallows dual use.
Aug 11 15:53:58 <gkatsev> Rick_work: so, technically, we could hack the pre to allow it?
Aug 11 15:54:07 <gkatsev> would sprint be able to tell and thus cancel our plans?
Aug 11 15:55:15 <dug> yes, they are monitoring this channel as we speak
Aug 11 15:55:54 <gkatsev> lol
Aug 11 15:58:03 <nebula> lets keep the topic on track, eh
Aug 11 15:58:05 <nebula> ;)
Aug 11 15:58:58 <gkatsev> im just wondering if its possible, i dont really need it. i barely talk on the phone as it is.
Aug 11 15:59:48 <gkatsev> lunch time
Aug 11 16:00:17 <NetWhiz> Thought I had it working at one point ... gonna have to look into it again. Really stupid on their part but understand not wanting to use another channel per user.
Aug 11 16:25:41 <djk> Anyone having trouble with some of the homebrew apps not installing due to space?
Aug 11 16:30:12 <Templarian> djk: theres a thread under FAQ about that I think in the official forums.
Aug 11 16:30:28 <djk> thanks
Aug 11 16:38:28 <dug1> yes, you might have filled up /var basically
Aug 11 16:38:32 <dug1> i ran into this
Aug 11 16:38:51 <dug1> since optware gets installed in /var/opt if you do it by the book
Aug 11 16:42:05 <gaffo> 
AWAY I am away

Aug 11 16:42:12 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 16:42:22 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 16:42:32 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 16:42:42 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 16:42:52 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 16:43:02 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 16:43:12 <gaffo> 
AWAY

Aug 11 17:10:52 <djk1> Templarian: The filecoaster space error discussion is on the PreCentral site? My searchs are coming up blank
Aug 11 17:12:06 <Templarian> djk1: no that error is related to a palm thing i believe "official forums" means Palm btw.
Aug 11 17:12:18 <Templarian> (I don't know about filecoaster though)
Aug 11 17:12:33 <djk1> thanks looking in the wrong spot ;-)
Aug 11 17:14:15 <Templarian> It's probably because the person has a massive ipk file I think the limit is around 10mb or something huge though.
Aug 11 17:16:58 <djk1> odd the ones I am having problems with say they are under that. one is 26.11kb
Aug 11 17:17:26 <Templarian> Maybe they are not clearing the temp folder or something weird.
Aug 11 17:17:41 <Templarian> Try and install through the command line?
Aug 11 17:19:01 <djk1> I will have to give that a try. Maybe I'm the only having the problem I'm not find anyone on precentral talking about
Aug 11 17:19:27 <Templarian> I've seen it a lot during early access... but figured it got fixed.
Aug 11 17:20:37 <Templarian> djk1: is this the device or emulator?
Aug 11 17:21:27 <Templarian> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=824 (could be related to this)
Aug 11 17:22:18 <djk1> device
Aug 11 17:22:55 <Templarian> nvm then over look that thread.
Aug 11 17:23:38 <djk1> Have you tried file Coaster? It is looking like a great way to install the homebrew apps especially for those not wanting to 'root' the pre and deal with sftp and ssh console
Aug 11 17:41:14 <epyon22> file coaster is very nice to use now that it has the homebrew list and such
Aug 11 17:43:40 <gkatsev> mmhmm, and 1.1.1 has file descrptions now
Aug 11 17:43:57 <gkatsev> s/file/app/
Aug 11 17:43:58 <infobot> gkatsev meant: mmhmm, and 1.1.1 has app descrptions now
Aug 11 17:49:52 <destinal> 1.1.1 of what, file coaster?
Aug 11 17:50:03 <gkatsev> yes
Aug 11 18:01:25 <oc80z> yeah it does
Aug 11 18:06:12 <dreadchicken> but it can't upgrade itself it seems? (filecoaster)
Aug 11 18:06:36 <epyon22> ? if you click the new version of filecoaster it shuts it self down and the new one is there
Aug 11 18:06:45 <epyon22> it wont do it auto matically though
Aug 11 18:09:09 <Decimation> hey everyone
Aug 11 18:09:49 <destinal> Decimation: hey
Aug 11 18:10:47 <gkatsev> filecoaster can upgrade itself
Aug 11 18:10:54 <destinal> Decimation: turns out I was wrong about some kind of cache for the doc, that was an artifact of something else I did surprisingly emptying out my /var/palm/user-dock-positions.json
Aug 11 18:11:30 <destinal> even without a /usr/lib/luna, the dock works.  think it's hard coded but still looking
Aug 11 18:17:14 <tmzt> destinal: which dock?
Aug 11 18:17:23 <destinal> tmzt: Luna dock
Aug 11 18:17:36 <tmzt> oh, that it's not webkit based
Aug 11 18:17:42 <tmzt> you remoeved the plugin?
Aug 11 18:18:06 <Decimation> destinal: my launcher pages look sooo pretty.
Aug 11 18:18:16 <destinal> no, I removed /usr/lib/luna
Aug 11 18:18:33 <destinal> tmzt: the launcher popups are all css-based and customizable
Aug 11 18:18:44 <destinal> tmzt: but the dock itself _seems_ to be hard-coded
Aug 11 18:18:56 <destinal> in terms of style info, icon size, etc
Aug 11 18:19:25 <destinal> Decimation: did you get text to wrap for the smaller icons?
Aug 11 18:19:42 <tmzt> destinal: what's in /usr/lib/luna?
Aug 11 18:20:11 <Decimation> destinal: no it failed miserably.
Aug 11 18:21:08 <destinal> tmzt: lots and lots of luna stuff, in this case I was going for /usr/lib/luna/system which has luna-applauncher and luna-systemui
Aug 11 18:21:22 <tmzt> oh, ok
Aug 11 18:21:59 <destinal> but you can get rid of /usr/lib/luna and the dock and launching icons from the dock works, but nothing else
Aug 11 18:22:13 <destinal> which proved to me that the dock stuff isn't in there :)
Aug 11 18:22:36 <Decimation> http://is.gd/2c8mI
Aug 11 18:22:41 <Decimation> look pretty? :P
Aug 11 18:23:02 <destinal> yeah, looks good.. are you posting a patch?
Aug 11 18:23:30 <Decimation> lol, i dont know how to make a patch
Aug 11 18:23:42 <Decimation> ill just make a wiki page telling people how to do it
Aug 11 18:23:45 <destinal> diff -u oldfile newfile > file.patch
Aug 11 18:23:54 <Decimation> oh wow.
Aug 11 18:24:14 <tmzt> launching icons works? what does that mean?
Aug 11 18:24:29 <destinal> tmzt: in other words you can launch what's on the dock only
Aug 11 18:24:33 <destinal> nothing else
Aug 11 18:24:45 <tmzt> ah
Aug 11 18:24:51 <xalbo> Very nice looking, but it could probably be moved just a little to the left to center better.
Aug 11 18:24:56 <tmzt> it would help if I had ever used WebOS :)
Aug 11 18:25:50 <destinal> xalbo: agree, that should be possible in the css also
Aug 11 18:26:11 <destinal> Decimation: if you just want to write up what changes you made for that, others can make the patch
Aug 11 18:26:58 <Decimation> yeah, ill just make  wiki page for it.
Aug 11 18:27:09 <Decimation> finishing up some things
Aug 11 18:27:17 <destinal> Decimation: I take it any larger font size overlapped?
Aug 11 18:27:27 <Decimation> yeah, it was horrid.
Aug 11 18:28:32 <destinal> Decimation: also, who's Cindy?  :P
Aug 11 18:28:38 <Decimation> ;)
Aug 11 18:29:09 <Decimation> forgot my convo was open :P
Aug 11 18:30:10 <Decimation> okay, i'll make a wiki page right now
Aug 11 18:30:12 <Decimation> lol
Aug 11 18:57:24 <CIA-29> Decimation wiki * r4213 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row - New page: {{template:patch}} I'm gonna show you guys how to edit your launcher to customize the icon size, text size, distance between page indicators, and also, most importantly, how to make more t...
Aug 11 18:59:19 <gkatsev> thats cool, though, the spacing is a bit off.
Aug 11 19:03:59 <Decimation> lol, iim pretty new to making wiki pages
Aug 11 19:05:02 <czarphanguye> Decimation: Nice.  Didn't even think about that, but I'd love to see smaller icons.. going to have to check it out
Aug 11 19:06:00 <nebula> yeah
Aug 11 19:06:01 <nebula> cool
Aug 11 19:06:02 <Decimation> the wiki pages tells you how to edit icon size.
Aug 11 19:06:09 <destinal> 15 icons per page is way better than 9 and it looks usable
Aug 11 19:06:20 <nebula> wonder if theres a way to get the title closer to the icon
Aug 11 19:06:25 <nebula> =more items
Aug 11 19:06:41 <nebula> 20!
Aug 11 19:06:47 <czarphanguye> going to just remove the text all together, the icon is enough to tell what it does.
Aug 11 19:06:53 <nebula> ya
Aug 11 19:07:38 <Decimation> do it.
Aug 11 19:07:42 <czarphanguye> Decimation: have you resized the quick launch bar icons?  I'd like to see those smaller too
Aug 11 19:08:06 <epyon22> pics?
Aug 11 19:08:23 <czarphanguye> epyon22: it's on the wiki, `Now, heres my end result... http://screensnapr.com/u/x0hw1u.png`
Aug 11 19:08:55 <destinal> czarphanguye: quick launch resizing is where we got started with this, I've been looking but ran across launcher icon sizes instead :)
Aug 11 19:09:07 <epyon22> any speed differences
Aug 11 19:09:08 <epyon22> ?
Aug 11 19:09:10 <destinal> and Decimation figured out a good layout and the css to have more per row
Aug 11 19:09:18 <epyon22> destinal: faster or slower?
Aug 11 19:09:37 <destinal> epyon22: I haven't installed it on my pre yet, only in emulator
Aug 11 19:10:05 <destinal> no difference in emulator but that's not saying much
Aug 11 19:10:24 <epyon22> yeah id be willing to test is on the actual pre
Aug 11 19:10:38 <destinal> epyon22: I think Decimation has been developing and testing it on his pre the whole time
Aug 11 19:11:21 <epyon22> ohh ok
Aug 11 19:11:33 <nebula> w00t, madden 10
Aug 11 19:14:20 <kesne_> Anybody here know how to play sounds?
Aug 11 19:16:20 <NetWhiz> Anyone know of a way for a user with PPC to gain access to his Pre? I can not find anything for them about a novacom binary they can use. Anyone tried to compile the precomd as PPC?
Aug 11 19:22:34 <czarphanguye> mmm, my custom launcher tweak looks pretty ugly, and setting font-size; 0px; doesn't make it not show ;-/  Trying again
Aug 11 19:23:12 <nebula> kesne_: from?
Aug 11 19:23:18 <Zuchmir2> kesne_: i think: palm://com.palm/applicationManager ... id:"com.palm.app.streamingmusicplayer', params:[target:rtsp://audio-file]
Aug 11 19:23:27 <Decimation> yeah guys, i do all testing on my pre
Aug 11 19:24:08 <Decimation> destinal: ive looked EVERYWHERE, cant find dock info
Aug 11 19:25:27 <nebula> http://store.precentral.net/palm-touchstone-charging-kit-dockback-cover/5A100A5628.htm
Aug 11 19:25:32 <nebula> in stock
Aug 11 19:28:15 <enio> mine got sent today
Aug 11 19:28:30 <gkatsev> i should get another touchstone for work...
Aug 11 19:29:18 <gkatsev> i also want the prong holster with audio port access
Aug 11 19:29:26 <nebula> yup
Aug 11 19:35:13 <Zuchmir2> anyone know where the predevcamp apps are?
Aug 11 19:35:21 <tmzt> czarphanguye: visible: false for inline element
Aug 11 19:35:23 <tmzt> like span
Aug 11 19:35:33 <tmzt> display: none; for anything else
Aug 11 19:44:23 <czarphanguye> tmzt: thanks
Aug 11 19:48:13 <dijital1> what made you choose the pre over the iphone?
Aug 11 19:48:29 <nebula> linux.
Aug 11 19:48:48 <nebula> on that note, train.
Aug 11 19:49:28 <dijital1> i see
Aug 11 19:52:24 <Decimation> destinal: my diagnosis is that it is hard-coded, i think i'm done searching.
Aug 11 19:59:42 <Decimation> anyone have an issue with their pre
Aug 11 19:59:50 <Decimation> sometimes when the lock it
Aug 11 19:59:56 <Decimation> by pressing the top right button on the pre
Aug 11 20:00:01 <Decimation> the center LED is on
Aug 11 20:00:06 <dijital1> yes... can't make phone calls and surf the web at the same time
Aug 11 20:00:12 <dijital1> it's upsetting
Aug 11 20:00:34 <Decimation> lmao, who has EVER needed to do that?
Aug 11 20:00:43 <dijital1> i do.. all the time
Aug 11 20:01:01 <Decimation> 1 in a million buddy
Aug 11 20:01:06 <dijital1> on the speaker phone or bluetooth and need to get a phone number from online site or browse the internets
Aug 11 20:02:24 <Decimation> i hate on the iphone
Aug 11 20:02:34 <Decimation> like.. when im doing something, and i wanna switch to something else.
Aug 11 20:02:40 <Decimation> i have to close what im currently doing
Aug 11 20:02:48 <Decimation> or if im in the car using gps, and i get a call
Aug 11 20:02:51 <Decimation> my gps stops
Aug 11 20:02:55 <Decimation> i just hate that.
Aug 11 20:05:53 <dijital1> that's not true
Aug 11 20:06:02 <dijital1> I mulitask
Aug 11 20:06:06 <dijital1> I just don't have the cards
Aug 11 20:17:35 <tmzt> once it has a fix it shouldn't need the data connection
Aug 11 20:24:00 <dijital1> but like normal web surfing doesn't work
Aug 11 20:34:57 <PuffTheMagic> dijital1: you are still talking about not being able to do voice and data at once
Aug 11 20:35:05 <dijital1> yes
Aug 11 20:35:13 <PuffTheMagic> its not gonna change
Aug 11 20:35:14 <dijital1> at lunch i went to try it out at the palm store
Aug 11 20:35:23 <dijital1> and it does in fact not work
Aug 11 20:35:36 <dijital1> the sprint person was surprised herself
Aug 11 20:36:33 <PuffTheMagic> faster data speeds and clearer voice >> doing both at once
Aug 11 20:37:38 <dijital1> maybe 5 - 7 years ago
Aug 11 20:37:40 <bougyman> eh?
Aug 11 20:38:01 <bougyman> what kinda data?
Aug 11 20:38:04 <dijital1> but not it seems pretty *bad/poor_design/odd* that it doesn't do both
Aug 11 20:38:07 <bougyman> i'm going data and voice simultaneously.
Aug 11 20:38:56 <PuffTheMagic> yeah but att's data is slower than sprints and sprints voice quality is better too
Aug 11 20:39:04 * PuffTheMagic hides from the att fanboys
Aug 11 20:40:15 * dijital1 hates att
Aug 11 20:40:26 <dijital1> but likes/needs to be able to do more than one thing at a time
Aug 11 20:40:36 <PuffTheMagic> its not a "bad design" its a trade off
Aug 11 20:40:48 <PuffTheMagic> if you have X amount of bandwidth
Aug 11 20:40:56 <PuffTheMagic> and you have to multiplex it between voice and data
Aug 11 20:41:05 <dijital1> bandwidth will increase over time and you acn do both better
Aug 11 20:41:05 <PuffTheMagic> its not gonna be as fast or clear as voice alone or data alone
Aug 11 20:41:06 <bougyman> i'm soconfused
Aug 11 20:41:16 <bougyman> i'm doing data and voice _right now_
Aug 11 20:41:31 <PuffTheMagic> bougyman: wifi dont count
Aug 11 20:41:38 <PuffTheMagic> we are taliing using evdo data
Aug 11 20:41:42 <PuffTheMagic> and voice at same time
Aug 11 20:42:20 <PuffTheMagic> dijital1: yes bandwidth inscreases, but the issue is still the same
Aug 11 20:42:42 <PuffTheMagic> att chose 1 way, spring chose another
Aug 11 20:42:45 <dijital1> not really.. because you only need so much bandwidth to be able to carry voice well
Aug 11 20:42:59 <dijital1> the foundation then was a bad choice then
Aug 11 20:43:02 <dijital1> how's that
Aug 11 20:43:26 <bougyman> PuffTheMagic: oh, that's simply silly
Aug 11 20:44:03 <bougyman> none of the wireless bandwidths available at this time are strong enough to give any kind of good data access while voice is in use.
Aug 11 20:44:16 <dijital1> ?
Aug 11 20:44:33 <dijital1> if you're out in the middle of nowhere or in a parking lot for example
Aug 11 20:44:36 <dijital1> there's no wireless
Aug 11 20:44:37 <bougyman> if you're at a place without wifi/usbnet chances are your wireless network is even less capable of doing so.
Aug 11 20:44:52 <dijital1> it's not a stretch to bwan to be able want to accesss the internet while on the phone
Aug 11 20:44:54 <bougyman> and.. both at the same time is usable how?
Aug 11 20:45:13 <dijital1> have you ever used an iphone?
Aug 11 20:45:21 <bougyman> i don't routinely have people on the phone who want to wait for me to browse an evdo site.
Aug 11 20:47:40 <bougyman> most often thing i'll do while on the phone is look at my contacts, at most at email.
Aug 11 21:07:56 <PuffTheMagic> bougyman: att does
Aug 11 21:38:57 <DesktopMa> Been looking around but difficult to find accurate info, is it true there is no opengl es driver?
Aug 11 21:39:59 <tmzt> as shipped, I believe not
Aug 11 21:40:15 <tmzt> the hardware is very similar to beagleboard and openpandora though
Aug 11 21:41:00 <tmzt> if you wanted it to work, the first task would probably be getting upstream kernel to work
Aug 11 21:41:00 <DesktopMa> yeah. I ordered a pandora last year
Aug 11 21:41:42 <DesktopMa> if the driver is a binary blob with a small open source interface it might work across kernels though?
Aug 11 21:42:13 <DesktopMa> more of a embed dever than linux so will have to look more into it
Aug 11 21:43:03 <destinal> ~seen mrvc
Aug 11 21:43:08 <infobot> mrvc <n=vaughn@c-67-191-184-192.hsd1.ga.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 9d 5h 16m 25s ago, saying: 'dreadchicken: it is a separate font'.
Aug 11 21:43:11 <tmzt> well, the linux on Pre is a customized 2.6.24
Aug 11 21:43:23 <tmzt> so I would start with the op kernel
Aug 11 21:43:32 <tmzt> then you have that compatiblity
Aug 11 21:43:39 <destinal> ~seen Zuchmir2
Aug 11 21:43:40 <infobot> zuchmir2 is currently on #webos-internals (2d 19h 23m 46s). Has said a total of 10 messages. Is idling for 2h 8m 27s, last said: 'anyone know where the predevcamp apps are?'.
Aug 11 21:44:53 <tmzt> DesktopMa: I mean that the kernel on Pre is not compatible with the driver that will ship with OP, because it's a n older version
Aug 11 21:45:21 <DesktopMa> ah
Aug 11 21:45:22 <tmzt> so to make that driver work you would first have to make a similar kernel work on Pre
Aug 11 21:45:49 <DesktopMa> does the 3530 allow different hardware configurations, e.g. memory maps and peripherals?
Aug 11 21:45:52 <DesktopMa> or is it mostly stock
Aug 11 21:46:03 <tmzt> the great thing about Pre is the hardware is so simple that it should be possible
Aug 11 21:46:37 <tmzt> what do you mean?
Aug 11 21:47:09 <DesktopMa> well, if everything is identical it's more of a copy/paste job than anything else
Aug 11 21:49:02 <tmzt> some external periphrials are different
Aug 11 21:49:54 <tmzt> like devices on the i2c bus, for instance
Aug 11 21:50:05 <DesktopMa> yeah I'd except so
Aug 11 21:50:22 <tmzt> boar board-omap3-sierloin would have to be ported
Aug 11 21:58:52 <DesktopMa> does the current windows manager run on top of an existing system? or is it just a pure webkit app running directly on the kernel
Aug 11 21:59:52 <tmzt> sorry?
Aug 11 21:59:59 <tmzt> it's running on frameuffer
Aug 11 22:00:27 <tmzt> it's not running on webkit only, but I'm nost sure what you mean by existing system
Aug 11 22:00:59 <DesktopMa> well, I guess, existing window manager. not too well versed in linux terms
Aug 11 22:01:24 <tmzt> it's not X
Aug 11 22:19:56 <Decimation> at the guy talking about data and voice at the same time
Aug 11 22:20:03 <Decimation> lmfao, if its a big deal for you, get another phone.
Aug 11 22:20:34 <Technobabble> which phones do data and voice at the same time, i've never had one
Aug 11 22:22:32 <eternaleye> Has anyone in here tried/succeeded in running 2.6.3* on the Pre? I'm curious, because the newer versions support the Marvell wifi chip in mac80211 natively (ie, without needing the closed-source drivers). According to the wiki, exmap.ko and bridedriver.ko are the only other binary modules, and they both can be rebuilt to match the new kernel.
Aug 11 22:23:28 <kevin-> Any GSM/HSDPA phones will do data and voice simultaneously, except when on GPRS. EDGE and above provide both.
Aug 11 22:24:28 <eternaleye> dspbridge: https://omapzoom.org/gf/project/omapbridge/frs/ ; exmap: http://www.berthels.co.uk/exmap/doc.html
Aug 11 22:25:29 <rwhitby> eternaleye: there was one person here some days ago that was attempting to port android to the pre, and we have some wiki pages on compiling custom kernels.
Aug 11 22:26:41 <eternaleye> rwhitby: I've seen the wiki page (that's where I found the list of binary modules), but it only talks about building 2.6.24, not .30 or .31
Aug 11 22:27:07 <rwhitby> yeah, I don't think anyone has tried newer (or at least they haven't discussed it here)
Aug 11 22:27:34 <eternaleye> I'm so going to try it if I can get my hands on a Pre
Aug 11 22:28:07 <Zuchmir2> destinal: pong
Aug 11 22:28:37 <destinal> the first thing is we need to try to boot via omap or change some bootie setting if it exists so we can see the kernel boot screen (unless that's just a patch in their kernel that we can omit)
Aug 11 22:29:40 <destinal> Zuchmir2: any thoughts on terminal 0.1.6 vs git HEAD?   I know mrvc has been away and I've been working on other stuff this last week
Aug 11 22:30:06 <destinal> mainly, do we need a new release?
Aug 11 22:30:08 <Decimation> is porting android to the pre even possible?
Aug 11 22:30:18 <Decimation> doesnt android need like.. a back, forward, and home button.
Aug 11 22:30:20 <destinal> Decimation: it's not only possible, it's probably easy
Aug 11 22:30:43 <Zuchmir2> i think we need to get the full width (when rotated) working again (it broke in one of the last builds)
Aug 11 22:31:10 <Zuchmir2> ... also the prefs thing really has to be dealt with, now it's all over the place
Aug 11 22:31:23 <destinal> Decimation: we may have to use volume up volume down and the center button, and if more are needed we have keyboard
Aug 11 22:31:54 <destinal> or we could do something with the gesture area although that would be a more advanced patch
Aug 11 22:32:25 <destinal> Zuchmir2: heard anything from mrvc?
Aug 11 22:32:49 <destinal> the two of you were doing so well I had mostly moved on to other stuff
Aug 11 22:32:55 <Zuchmir2> destinal: ... i know PuffTheMagic was working on the mojo side, and not sure how far he got (beyond what he has in the HEAD)
Aug 11 22:33:17 <Decimation> so who exactly is working on porting android if anyone?
Aug 11 22:33:33 <destinal> Decimation: unknown
Aug 11 22:33:47 <Zuchmir2> yeah, understood, but i'm not sure what PuffTheMagic was thinking/doing with the mojo, so i didn't procedd with that stuff
Aug 11 22:33:48 <bsdbandit> i just installed irssi on my pre and im trying to find the best terminal to install so i can run irc on my phone
Aug 11 22:34:02 <rwhitby> Decimation: take a look through the IRC logs of the last week, and you'll find them
Aug 11 22:34:17 <destinal> bsdbandit: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal
Aug 11 22:34:50 <destinal> it has its problems but I think most would agree it's the best solution inside luna right now
Aug 11 22:34:52 <Zuchmir2> there's some interesting tidbits i've done for another app, where the app calls mojo, if that's of any use to u
Aug 11 22:35:23 <destinal> Zuchmir2: I'd love to see how you manage it
Aug 11 22:35:53 <Zuchmir2> esp: scrolling the page (we could use it for scrolling to the bottom of Terminal when user starts typing)
Aug 11 22:35:59 <destinal> k leaving for home, bbl
Aug 11 22:39:53 <Decimation> rwhitby: any idea where the dock info?
Aug 11 22:39:59 <Decimation> like.. the luna dock.
Aug 11 22:40:14 <rwhitby> nope
Aug 11 22:40:20 <Decimation> i searched my pre, and destinal looked for a while also, we cant find anything :/
Aug 11 22:44:21 <Decimation> rwhitby: so is there a way to get around the app limit
Aug 11 22:44:29 <Decimation> i tried symlinking, it didnt work :/
Aug 11 22:44:53 <rwhitby> Decimation: no idea.  I haven't come across the limit in the emulator yet.
Aug 11 22:44:59 <rwhitby> (I don't have a Pre)
Aug 11 22:45:12 <Decimation> ahh :/
Aug 11 22:46:09 <bsdbandit> anyone used ajaxterm yet ?
Aug 11 22:50:38 <Technobabble> bsdbandit, there's a terminal that runs in the phone now
Aug 11 22:50:43 <Technobabble> destinal made it
Aug 11 22:51:14 <bsdbandit> whats the name of it
Aug 11 22:51:15 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 11 22:51:22 <Technobabble> one sec
Aug 11 22:51:25 <bsdbandit> ok
Aug 11 22:51:37 <bsdbandit> what im trying to do is run irc from my phone
Aug 11 22:51:39 <bsdbandit> :)
Aug 11 22:51:40 <bsdbandit> lol
Aug 11 22:51:45 <bsdbandit> so i can talk to you guys still
Aug 11 22:52:53 <tmzt> Terminal
Aug 11 22:53:10 <bsdbandit> im trying to find it in the menu
Aug 11 22:53:18 <bsdbandit> what menu is it located under
Aug 11 22:54:13 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: ping
Aug 11 22:54:16 <PuffTheMagic> what were you talking about
Aug 11 22:54:23 <PuffTheMagic> i saw something about full width when rotated
Aug 11 22:54:35 <PuffTheMagic> yes i was hoping we would support that at some point
Aug 11 22:55:05 <PuffTheMagic> but i was trying to fix the general suckyness of the scrolling in its normal state
Aug 11 22:55:25 <PuffTheMagic> and we need a way of going full screen
Aug 11 22:55:31 <PuffTheMagic> yet still proving a minimal toolbar
Aug 11 22:55:48 <PuffTheMagic> otherwise when we are in wide mode there will be no hight to use
Aug 11 22:56:16 <PuffTheMagic> for the most part though no one should expect a really decent terminal
Aug 11 22:56:37 <PuffTheMagic> cause wide mode cant be used well with the keyboard
Aug 11 22:56:45 <PuffTheMagic> and tall mode is just narrow
Aug 11 22:58:59 <eternaleye> Gah, what I wouldn't give for Palm to have made their kernel patches proper format-patches with history!
Aug 11 22:59:46 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: how does a patch have a history
Aug 11 22:59:55 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: a patch is a snapshot in time
Aug 11 23:00:03 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: are you talking about a git repo?
Aug 11 23:00:13 <PuffTheMagic> they are working on that
Aug 11 23:00:18 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: format-patches addd mail-like headers, such that each commit in the source repo is represented as a commit in the dest repo
Aug 11 23:00:34 <eternaleye> git format-patch and git apply-mailbox
Aug 11 23:00:57 <PuffTheMagic> well... they are going towards that
Aug 11 23:01:14 <PuffTheMagic> when they started working on the pre kernel a few years ago there was no upstream omap3 support
Aug 11 23:01:18 <PuffTheMagic> but since they started on it
Aug 11 23:01:23 <PuffTheMagic> opensource people did too
Aug 11 23:01:32 <PuffTheMagic> and the opensource version made it upstream
Aug 11 23:01:46 <PuffTheMagic> and palm is working to get back upstream
Aug 11 23:01:56 <PuffTheMagic> so they will have a git repo at some point
Aug 11 23:01:59 <PuffTheMagic> idk how soon
Aug 11 23:02:08 <PuffTheMagic> but its gonna happen so i hear
Aug 11 23:02:39 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: Even if they had just had the changes _they_ made to 2.6.24 in a format-patch, the I could rebase it on top of a recent kernel. With the monolithic blog they have, that's impossible
Aug 11 23:02:50 <eternaleye> *blob
Aug 11 23:03:21 <PuffTheMagic> well you would never be able to rebase it anyway since there is omap3 shit upstream and there would be mad conflicts
Aug 11 23:03:47 <PuffTheMagic> but there is nothing stopping you from forward porting their .24 patch to .31 if you wanted to
Aug 11 23:04:04 <PuffTheMagic> but since palm is already working towards that i would focus your engergy else where
Aug 11 23:04:42 <Decimation_> lol, i need to learn to code in js
Aug 11 23:04:58 <Decimation_> ME WANTZ TO MAKE A VIDEO CAMERA
Aug 11 23:05:18 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: but with out an intimate knowledge of the omap3 you arent gonna get anything out of just forward porting it
Aug 11 23:05:35 <PuffTheMagic> its not gonna give us Nohz/dyntick support
Aug 11 23:05:45 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: Or just cherry-pick their patches for the LEDs, accelerometer, etc
Aug 11 23:05:46 <PuffTheMagic> since that requires new code that is not in the .24 patches
Aug 11 23:05:57 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: what do u mean
Aug 11 23:06:03 <PuffTheMagic> that code is all in there in the .24 patch
Aug 11 23:06:29 <PuffTheMagic> what would you do with it anyway
Aug 11 23:06:49 <PuffTheMagic> there is already an led service for using the leds in a mojo app
Aug 11 23:06:54 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: Exactly! That's why I wish they had done format-patch'es instead
Aug 11 23:06:57 <PuffTheMagic> and same for increasing the acceleromter poloing rate
Aug 11 23:07:25 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: cause it saves you 1/4 of a second of searching the monolithic patch
Aug 11 23:07:34 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: That's not what I want. WHat I want is the wireless stuff that lets you have multiple virtual radios
Aug 11 23:07:47 <PuffTheMagic> a patch isnt gonna help u there
Aug 11 23:08:17 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: No, it lets me choose what parts I want logically with metadata rather than making me search a multi-megabyte text file for code that has no context with it
Aug 11 23:08:45 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: You seem to have it backwards
Aug 11 23:09:06 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: i've been hacking and writing kernel code since 2.6.12
Aug 11 23:09:13 <eternaleye> I don't want to port 2.6.30 to their patch. I want to port what of their patch is necessary to get 2.6.30 to run on the Pre
Aug 11 23:09:30 <PuffTheMagic> thats what "forward porting" is
Aug 11 23:09:37 <PuffTheMagic> obviously you have never done something like that
Aug 11 23:09:48 <PuffTheMagic> broken out patches wont help you there
Aug 11 23:10:12 <PuffTheMagic> you can take the monolithic patch and split it by looking for diff -urN
Aug 11 23:10:17 <PuffTheMagic> and break it into 1000 pieces
Aug 11 23:10:20 <PuffTheMagic> if that makes it easier
Aug 11 23:10:21 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: No, it means I don't have to port the whole patch. I can instead port individual commits, a much smaller task
Aug 11 23:10:36 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: And that just separates it by file, not timeline
Aug 11 23:10:48 <PuffTheMagic> why does timeline matter
Aug 11 23:10:51 <PuffTheMagic> its all against .24
Aug 11 23:11:00 <PuffTheMagic> its all the same "time"
Aug 11 23:11:21 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: Because that will let me get a better idea of what portions depend on each other
Aug 11 23:11:50 <eternaleye> PuffTheMagic: I don't think you honestly believe they made that entire huge patch outside of source control...
Aug 11 23:12:12 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: no i dont, but it wont really make forward porting it any easier
Aug 11 23:15:19 <PuffTheMagic> eternaleye: apply the palm .24 patch to vanialla .24 then diff that against .31 and and use that as a base for your forward poring
Aug 11 23:15:27 <bsdbandit> when the palm pre first boots is shows palm  then it show my png file and then my png bright file. My question is what file to i need to edit in order to get rid of the palm symbol
Aug 11 23:16:32 <PuffTheMagic> bsdbandit: since plam uses upstart i would image they use usplash
Aug 11 23:16:42 <PuffTheMagic> but it sounds like they have an image built into the cpio image
Aug 11 23:17:00 <PuffTheMagic> so you would need to rebuild the kernel with your image embedded
Aug 11 23:17:07 <bsdbandit> oh ok
Aug 11 23:17:22 <PuffTheMagic> but i havent really looked into anything kernel releated yet
Aug 11 23:17:28 <PuffTheMagic> but that is my intuition
Aug 11 23:17:34 <bsdbandit> me niether
Aug 11 23:17:49 <bsdbandit> right now trying to get the right termail for the phone
Aug 11 23:17:49 <bsdbandit> lol
Aug 11 23:18:03 <PuffTheMagic> termail? terminal?
Aug 11 23:19:38 <bsdbandit> yes terminal
Aug 11 23:19:45 <bsdbandit> ll
Aug 11 23:21:20 <PuffTheMagic> bsdbandit: i havent payed any attention to what is on precentral, but the terminal that we have develoiped is the best so far, imo
Aug 11 23:21:31 <PuffTheMagic> even though its a wip
Aug 11 23:21:42 <bsdbandit> oh ok
Aug 11 23:22:39 <PuffTheMagic> but i really doubt any termianl is gonna be that function on a pre with the keyboard/screen layout
Aug 11 23:22:56 <PuffTheMagic> functional
Aug 11 23:25:19 <bsdbandit> where does on dump custom wallpaper ?
Aug 11 23:25:37 <bsdbandit> where do you put the custom wallpaper on the pre
Aug 11 23:25:42 <bsdbandit> which directory
Aug 11 23:31:23 <JackieRipper> PuffTheMagic: I'm very happy with the terminal
Aug 11 23:31:51 <bsdbandit> hey jackie what dir can you put your custom wallpape
Aug 11 23:31:51 <bsdbandit> r
Aug 11 23:31:53 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic, destinal, mrvc: i have a patch to add auto-scrolling (to bottom) when a key is pressed, will upload in approx 1hr
Aug 11 23:31:54 <bsdbandit> ?
Aug 11 23:32:08 <Zuchmir2> bbl
Aug 11 23:32:12 <JackieRipper> bsdbandit: wallpapers, I believe
Aug 11 23:32:33 <JackieRipper> er /media/internal/wallpapers/
Aug 11 23:32:42 <bsdbandit> ok
Aug 11 23:32:47 <bsdbandit> thanks
Aug 11 23:32:52 <JackieRipper> just wallpapers, if you're using the usb drive
Aug 11 23:34:25 <JackieRipper> PuffTheMagic: as soon as the terminal can do special characters, I think it will be perfect for whatever I'd use it for.
Aug 11 23:39:45 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: nice
Aug 12 00:00:49 <Zuchmir2> JackieRipper: what do u mean "special chars"?
Aug 12 00:17:53 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic, destinal, mrvc: just added auto-scrolling (to bottom) when a key is pressed
Aug 12 00:20:01 <JackieRipper> Zuchmir2: sorry, I was in the other room
Aug 12 00:20:26 <JackieRipper> Zuchmir2: <>^{}[]~\
Aug 12 00:20:36 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: re: full screen width in landscape: Mojo.View.getViewportDimensions(document).height / width should give area
Aug 12 00:21:07 <Zuchmir2> lemme see, i thought they were added already
Aug 12 00:21:12 <PuffTheMagic> i know how to change orientation
Aug 12 00:21:16 <PuffTheMagic> whatim worried about is...
Aug 12 00:21:22 <PuffTheMagic> if we have a big fat header at the top
Aug 12 00:21:26 <PuffTheMagic> for the menu
Aug 12 00:21:34 <PuffTheMagic> and the notifications at the bottom
Aug 12 00:21:42 <PuffTheMagic> then in wide mode there will be not much space
Aug 12 00:21:49 <PuffTheMagic> so full screen in any orientation is a must
Aug 12 00:21:59 <PuffTheMagic> but we need to make a nice slick menu
Aug 12 00:22:04 <PuffTheMagic> we cant use appMenu in fullscreen
Aug 12 00:22:10 <PuffTheMagic> so we have to use viewMenu
Aug 12 00:22:15 <PuffTheMagic> but make it look like appMenu
Aug 12 00:22:22 <Zuchmir2> ywhat's wrong w/appmenu?
Aug 12 00:22:31 <PreGame> appMenu doesn't show in fullscreen
Aug 12 00:22:35 <PuffTheMagic> nothing... except that it does not run in full screen
Aug 12 00:22:43 <Zuchmir2> u want to get rid of clock etc?
Aug 12 00:23:07 <PuffTheMagic> its more about preventing the notifications at the bottom
Aug 12 00:23:11 <PuffTheMagic> and if the clock were not at the top
Aug 12 00:23:19 <PuffTheMagic> then we could move the keylock indicator up there
Aug 12 00:23:31 <PuffTheMagic> while we figure out how to make the nice inline indicator
Aug 12 00:24:21 <PuffTheMagic> an if we are full screen then we dont have to deal with resizing the height when the notification shit pops up
Aug 12 00:24:29 <Zuchmir2> how bad are notifications?
Aug 12 00:24:30 <PreGame> you could try and use javascript to make your own menu similar to the appmenu
Aug 12 00:24:41 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: i tried
Aug 12 00:24:44 <PuffTheMagic> i failed
Aug 12 00:24:48 <PuffTheMagic> my css skills suck
Aug 12 00:24:49 <PreGame> make it like the appmenu that appears like the viewmenu when the screen is tapped
Aug 12 00:25:09 <PreGame> if you make the javascript i will do the css
Aug 12 00:25:10 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: i couldnt figure out the templates/classes to reuse the appMenu
Aug 12 00:25:23 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: have you tried using templates yet
Aug 12 00:25:28 <PreGame> just make the javascript have a box and i will add the images etc
Aug 12 00:25:35 <PreGame> yea i've used templates for lists
Aug 12 00:25:54 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: i "had" a viewMenu working once
Aug 12 00:26:05 <PuffTheMagic> its pretty trivial to get it working
Aug 12 00:26:09 <PreGame> yep
Aug 12 00:26:10 <PuffTheMagic> it should be in the git history
Aug 12 00:26:22 <PreGame> i was going to use one for fileCoaster the beginning version but it was a pain
Aug 12 00:26:24 <PuffTheMagic> but i couldnt make it look exactly like the app menu
Aug 12 00:26:33 <PuffTheMagic> pain++
Aug 12 00:26:49 <PreGame> palm sucks at their documentation/tutorials for the sdk
Aug 12 00:26:52 <PuffTheMagic> my Pre dev work is my first reall css and js experience
Aug 12 00:27:02 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: yeah they are pretty half assed
Aug 12 00:27:08 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: i would guess that Mojo.View.getViewportDimensions(document).height / width would resize based on notifications
Aug 12 00:27:16 <PuffTheMagic> but it was released before they intended due to the leak
Aug 12 00:27:31 <PreGame> true so i guess i can't complain
Aug 12 00:27:32 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: i dont want to resize based on notifactions
Aug 12 00:27:36 <PuffTheMagic> thats the hole point
Aug 12 00:27:43 <PuffTheMagic> we are limited with space as it is
Aug 12 00:27:49 <PuffTheMagic> we dont need notifications taking up more space
Aug 12 00:27:53 <PreGame> i wouldn't use a header
Aug 12 00:27:58 <PreGame> make the header dissapear
Aug 12 00:28:05 <PreGame> like a viewMenu
Aug 12 00:28:20 <PreGame> use banners
Aug 12 00:28:26 <PuffTheMagic> ehh
Aug 12 00:28:27 <PreGame> banners will go away after 5 seconds
Aug 12 00:28:27 <Zuchmir2> can we use popmenu?
Aug 12 00:28:51 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: we need a header/menu to access the new terminal and preferences options
Aug 12 00:29:01 <PreGame> you know what would be a kick ass app?
Aug 12 00:29:06 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: yes we can use a popup but that has to be tied to a button
Aug 12 00:29:19 <PuffTheMagic> and a button has to be in a appmenu or viewmenu essentially
Aug 12 00:29:19 <PreGame> a plugin that lets you use the USB cable to hook up to a computer monitor and see the pre on the monitor
Aug 12 00:29:48 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: id never use anything like that
Aug 12 00:29:54 <PreGame> what about making it so the gesture area will make the menu appear
Aug 12 00:30:14 <PuffTheMagic> well sure
Aug 12 00:30:21 <PuffTheMagic> but we still need a viewMenu
Aug 12 00:30:24 <Zuchmir2> or gesture+orange
Aug 12 00:30:24 <PuffTheMagic> that dont look like shit
Aug 12 00:30:40 <PuffTheMagic> and a view menu that looks like the appmenu would be best imo
Aug 12 00:30:44 <PuffTheMagic> even if it autohides
Aug 12 00:30:58 <PreGame> view the sdk for the appmenu and create a custom menu
Aug 12 00:31:01 <PuffTheMagic> or is triggered by a key/gesture binding
Aug 12 00:31:26 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: i tried that for about a day but my css/js/mojo skills suck
Aug 12 00:31:36 <PuffTheMagic> im a linux expert with some C/C++/java skillz
Aug 12 00:31:39 <PuffTheMagic> ;_
Aug 12 00:31:40 <PuffTheMagic> :)
Aug 12 00:31:59 <PuffTheMagic> expert/addict
Aug 12 00:32:57 <PreGame> if you can get the viewmenu you had in git working i can come up with some css to make it look nice
Aug 12 00:33:17 <PreGame> just make it display a crappy menu and i will add all the effects
Aug 12 00:33:37 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame:  all you need to do is change the appMenu code to viewMenu really
Aug 12 00:33:46 <PuffTheMagic> its 95% the same code
Aug 12 00:33:49 <PuffTheMagic> just different class
Aug 12 00:34:00 <PuffTheMagic> except
Aug 12 00:34:08 <PreGame> yea but appmenu stations it in a predefined location while view menu we decide where to put it.
Aug 12 00:34:13 <PuffTheMagic> it does not have a default popup menu like appmenu did
Aug 12 00:34:20 <PreGame> i can take a look at it, at a later date but i have a few projects i have to complete
Aug 12 00:34:43 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: yeah i have a lot on my plate too so this is not too high on my todo list
Aug 12 00:34:47 <PuffTheMagic> i need to find a new car
Aug 12 00:35:01 <PreGame> PuffTheMagic: Use the findMyCar app :P
Aug 12 00:35:02 <PuffTheMagic> cause i rearended someone a week ago
Aug 12 00:35:16 <PuffTheMagic> PreGame: I found a car, test driving it tomorrow
Aug 12 00:35:20 <PuffTheMagic> 350Z :D
Aug 12 00:35:26 <PreGame> nice
Aug 12 00:35:32 <PuffTheMagic> 6sd[
Aug 12 00:35:34 <PuffTheMagic> spd
Aug 12 00:35:44 <PuffTheMagic> its so damn hard to find a manual
Aug 12 00:36:08 <PuffTheMagic> w/ a v6
Aug 12 00:36:30 <PuffTheMagic> unless i wanted a mustang
Aug 12 00:36:35 <PuffTheMagic> there are tons of those
Aug 12 00:40:08 <Zuchmir2> JackieRipper: <>^ should be easy (Shift + ,.6), whereas {}[]~\` are a bit more tricky, where would u expect them mapped to?
Aug 12 00:40:55 <Decimation_> hey guys :)
Aug 12 00:41:22 <JackieRipper> Zuchmir2: I have no idea... perhaps an on-screen row?
Aug 12 00:41:29 <JackieRipper> hi Decimation_
Aug 12 00:41:48 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: btw w/my latest patch u have access to mojo calls from within plugin
Aug 12 00:41:52 <Decimation_> whats up JackieRipper
Aug 12 00:42:13 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: you are generating keystate events?
Aug 12 00:42:27 <PuffTheMagic> i dont want to poll the plugin for them
Aug 12 00:42:37 <PuffTheMagic> if i have to do that i'd rather listen to them from mojo
Aug 12 00:42:40 <PuffTheMagic> and skip the plugin
Aug 12 00:42:50 <JackieRipper> Zuchmir2: won't shift + 6 = "G" ?
Aug 12 00:43:35 <Zuchmir2> no, i'm generating mojo calls
Aug 12 00:43:44 <PuffTheMagic> what do u mean?
Aug 12 00:43:52 <Zuchmir2> JackieRipper: u are right, but perhaps orange+shift+6
Aug 12 00:44:29 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: calling this.scroller.mojo.revealBottom() from within plugin...
Aug 12 00:44:39 <PuffTheMagic> oh
Aug 12 00:44:56 <PuffTheMagic> well you need to figure out how to generate events for the keystate
Aug 12 00:45:18 <Zuchmir2> which means u don't have to mix JS with C to do various functions
Aug 12 00:45:29 <Zuchmir2> what do u mean by that?
Aug 12 00:45:38 <Zuchmir2> why do u need events?
Aug 12 00:46:01 <PuffTheMagic> cause i dont want the plugin drawing that ugly yellow box with the keystates
Aug 12 00:46:09 <PuffTheMagic> i want the mojo to display the key states
Aug 12 00:46:24 <PuffTheMagic> so i can listen to the key events directly in mojo
Aug 12 00:46:25 <PuffTheMagic> or i can listen to the plugin
Aug 12 00:46:29 <PuffTheMagic> if it generates events
Aug 12 00:46:46 <Zuchmir2> oh, so u can expose a function, pass the object to the plugin, then plugin calls the function in JS
Aug 12 00:46:57 <PuffTheMagic> something like that
Aug 12 00:47:21 <PuffTheMagic> but i dont really understand why the plugin is keeping track of state
Aug 12 00:47:29 <PuffTheMagic> the plugin should just be reacting to events
Aug 12 00:49:39 <Zuchmir2> say this.keyStates(shift, ctrl, alt, gesture), then call this.termplugin.keyStateFunction(this)...
Aug 12 00:50:08 <Zuchmir2> and whenever there a keystate change this app sends the *text* to display in each state
Aug 12 00:50:48 <PuffTheMagic> why would it send text?
Aug 12 00:50:48 <Zuchmir2> the plugin is eeping track of the tri-state, as otherwise: 1) the user doesn't know the state, and 2) the app doesn't know the state
Aug 12 00:51:03 <PuffTheMagic> the app could know the state
Aug 12 00:51:09 <PuffTheMagic> if it listened to the events
Aug 12 00:51:16 <PuffTheMagic> the plugin doesnt need to do it
Aug 12 00:51:24 <Zuchmir2> because there are 3 posibilities for each key, i can send numbers, but text is clearer
Aug 12 00:51:41 <PuffTheMagic> why does the plugin need to do that
Aug 12 00:51:54 <PuffTheMagic> what does the plugin do with that info
Aug 12 00:51:58 <PuffTheMagic> beside draw the yellow box
Aug 12 00:52:02 <Zuchmir2> if u put debug code in the app, u will see that the keyboard does NOT keep all states as we need them
Aug 12 00:52:04 <PuffTheMagic> with the text in it
Aug 12 00:52:29 <Zuchmir2> it uses it to know when the 'g' is 'g', 'G' or '6'
Aug 12 00:53:01 <Zuchmir2> ... or right
Aug 12 00:53:16 <Zuchmir2> ... (w/gesture area)
Aug 12 00:53:30 <PuffTheMagic> well i want a way to display the keystate in mojo
Aug 12 00:53:34 <PuffTheMagic> thats all i am saying
Aug 12 00:53:38 <PuffTheMagic> i dont care how it happenes
Aug 12 00:54:02 <Zuchmir2> that's fine, five me a function such as this.keyStates(shift, ctrl, alt, gesture), then call this.termplugin.keyStateFunction(this)...
Aug 12 00:55:12 <PuffTheMagic> i'd rather use ints not strings
Aug 12 00:55:17 <PuffTheMagic> strings are slower to parse
Aug 12 00:55:24 <Zuchmir2> ok, so u want 0, 1, 2
Aug 12 00:55:30 <PuffTheMagic> and a struct/object with every keys state in it would be even better
Aug 12 00:55:42 <Zuchmir2> that's easier on the C as well, as that's how it's stored
Aug 12 00:55:52 <PuffTheMagic> cool
Aug 12 00:56:22 <Zuchmir2> but remeber there's 3 posibilities each: "", "Shift", "*Shift"
Aug 12 00:57:09 <Decimation_> destinal: i figured out how to fix the problem with like, page indicators going off screen, and the apps being spaced to the right too much
Aug 12 00:57:48 <Decimation_> http://is.gd/2c8mI <-- original version
Aug 12 00:58:04 <Decimation_> http://is.gd/2cwP6 <-- new version
Aug 12 00:58:26 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: btw can u think of a better name for that object than keyStatesParentObj?
Aug 12 00:59:11 <Zuchmir2> Decimation_: is the difference the backgound conversation? :-)
Aug 12 00:59:30 <Decimation_> :P cant stop talkin to cindy :)
Aug 12 00:59:43 <Zuchmir2> Decimation_: looks better centered
Aug 12 00:59:48 <Decimation_> yeah
Aug 12 00:59:52 <Decimation_> and the page indicators are fixed
Aug 12 00:59:53 <Zuchmir2> did u update the wiki page for that?
Aug 12 01:00:12 <Decimation_> not yet
Aug 12 01:00:15 <Decimation_> kinda lazy
Aug 12 01:00:29 <Zuchmir2> i know that feeling
Aug 12 01:02:00 <Decimation_> lol
Aug 12 01:02:07 <Decimation_> i dont even totally remember what i changed
Aug 12 01:02:12 <Decimation_> cant i just like, make a patch for it?
Aug 12 01:04:06 <Decimation_> Zuchmir2: so do you think it looks nice?
Aug 12 01:04:31 <Zuchmir2> i think it's diff oldfile newfile
Aug 12 01:04:40 <Zuchmir2> yes, it looks nice
Aug 12 01:08:23 <JackieRipper> Decimation_: you can also bring the names closer to the icons
Aug 12 01:08:51 <Decimation_> JackieRipper: do you know where that is located in the code, or are you just making a suggestion?
Aug 12 01:09:05 <JackieRipper> Decimation_: in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/app/controllers/launcher-assistant.js
Aug 12 01:09:13 <JackieRipper> this.kAppHeight = 70;
Aug 12 01:09:27 <JackieRipper> right below where you changed this.kAppWidth = 58;
Aug 12 01:09:36 <JackieRipper> and then in /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/stylesheets/launcher.css
Aug 12 01:09:48 <JackieRipper> top: 48px;
Aug 12 01:10:13 <JackieRipper> those values work pretty well along with the changes on the wiki page
Aug 12 01:10:59 <JackieRipper> sorry, top: 48px; is in the ".launcher_page .name" block
Aug 12 01:11:18 <Decimation_> yeah, figured it out.
Aug 12 01:11:37 <Decimation_> kk, let me see how this looks with my changed
Aug 12 01:11:39 <Decimation_> changes*
Aug 12 01:11:47 <Decimation_> then i'll make a patch out of it,.
Aug 12 01:12:21 <JackieRipper> heh... I actually already submitted a quilt patch
Aug 12 01:13:02 <Decimation_> hah, well i changed some stuff :/
Aug 12 01:13:08 <JackieRipper> I've been going through the different mods in the wiki that aren't yet in the modifications repo and making patches
Aug 12 01:13:11 <Decimation_> centered it, fixed page indicators.
Aug 12 01:13:26 <JackieRipper> Decimation_: clone git and replace :)
Aug 12 01:13:37 <Decimation_> JackieRipper: holy shitt, these icons are close
Aug 12 01:13:47 <Decimation_> i could probably fit 30 on a page
Aug 12 01:13:55 <JackieRipper> I think 25
Aug 12 01:13:58 <JackieRipper> 5x5
Aug 12 01:14:47 <Decimation_> no, i gotta change this back
Aug 12 01:14:50 <Decimation_> i cant even reorder icons
Aug 12 01:14:52 <Decimation_> its so laggy.
Aug 12 01:17:26 <Decimation_> JackieRipper: editing the kAppheight is what caused it.. let me mess around with it and try to fix... making text closer to the icon works fine still though.
Aug 12 01:17:55 <JackieRipper> caused lag?
Aug 12 01:18:08 <Decimation_> i couldnt rearrange icons.. lol
Aug 12 01:18:25 <JackieRipper> weird... works fine for me
Aug 12 01:19:07 <JackieRipper> weird... now I can't
Aug 12 01:19:18 <JackieRipper> it's like I got one shot to move something
Aug 12 01:22:12 <Decimation_> lol
Aug 12 01:22:18 <Decimation_> im slowly decreasing the app height
Aug 12 01:22:20 <Decimation_> 90 worked fine
Aug 12 01:22:23 <Decimation_> trying 80
Aug 12 01:23:07 <Decimation_> nope, 80 doesnt work
Aug 12 01:23:27 <Decimation_> JackieRipper: let me pump it up to 85
Aug 12 01:24:43 <Decimation_> nope
Aug 12 01:24:54 <Decimation_> 90+ is the only functional values.
Aug 12 01:26:15 <Decimation_> so 90 for app height, along with 48 in the css file, is PERFECT for this.
Aug 12 01:26:17 <JackieRipper> does that line actually need to be modified?
Aug 12 01:27:27 <Decimation_> which line?
Aug 12 01:27:30 <Decimation_> the appheight?
Aug 12 01:28:03 <Decimation_> 90 allows for 4 apps per column, perfectly actually.
Aug 12 01:29:00 <Rick_home> egaudet:  so,  where are you on keyboard?  Anything to share?
Aug 12 01:29:28 <egaudet> I split off into two parts
Aug 12 01:29:35 <Rick_home> nodnod
Aug 12 01:29:55 <JackieRipper> Decimation_: awesome
Aug 12 01:29:56 <egaudet> First I did a proof of concept that I can get the keyboard to appear when hitting the gesture area from a text box
Aug 12 01:30:02 <Rick_home> ok
Aug 12 01:30:13 <Decimation_> JackieRipper: I'll make a patch for it in a minute
Aug 12 01:30:28 <Rick_home> Palm's keyboard, or you call to a MODIFIED popupkeyboard routine?
Aug 12 01:30:41 <egaudet> I've gone through the framework and have a relatively good idea how they do the symbols, and I plan to make the keyboard a watered down version of it at first (copy the CharSelector class to OnScreenKeyboard and patch the rest of framework to see it like it sees CharSelector)
Aug 12 01:31:53 <egaudet> I've also created an app to test that I can get the keyboard layout to look ok, 4 rows, entire width of screen
Aug 12 01:32:06 <Rick_home> ok
Aug 12 01:32:26 <Rick_home> willing to share?  or post code to git?
Aug 12 01:32:28 <egaudet> so I have all the parts floating around and now I have to carefully put it together to make a good patch that won't effect the rest of the framework and will hopefully be compaitible for future
Aug 12 01:32:58 <egaudet> Yes, if you want to see any of it now I have a lot of console.log debugs all over.
Aug 12 01:33:09 <Decimation_> yay. pizzas here
Aug 12 01:33:10 <Rick_home> I would LOVE to see it.
Aug 12 01:33:11 <egaudet> I'm hoping to maybe MIT it in case Palm wants to put it in
Aug 12 01:33:18 <Rick_home> yep
Aug 12 01:33:54 <Rick_home> it could be the app that brings a LOT of people to preware.
Aug 12 01:33:56 <Decimation_> egaudet: anyway i can check it out also? :)
Aug 12 01:34:10 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: adding some code which will require: USE_MOJO_FOR_KEYSTATE defined to see the effect, initialize with:   this.termplugin.keyStatesParentObj = this;   and make sure u have a function    this.keyStatesChanged(gesture, red, sym, shift)
Aug 12 01:34:13 <egaudet> Yea, let me verify the file works
Aug 12 01:34:30 <Rick_home> webos quick install from PC  or Preware from ipkg feed,  poof - on screen keyboard.
Aug 12 01:34:48 <Rick_home> and since it inherits from palm's existing symbol keyboard it automagically deals with landscape mode
Aug 12 01:34:55 <egaudet> boo yah
Aug 12 01:35:24 <Rick_home> egaudet:   are you ok if I post a screenshot of where you are in the precentral thread?
Aug 12 01:35:35 <egaudet> yea I'm fine with that
Aug 12 01:35:42 <Rick_home> coolness.
Aug 12 01:35:53 <Rick_home> and congrats on hitting a nail that was really sticking up.
Aug 12 01:36:06 <egaudet> though a screenshot of it right now is just gonna be the symbol keyboard on screen, maybe with a bunch of a's
Aug 12 01:36:12 <Decimation_> egaudet: if you want another tester, im here :) the on-screen keyboard interest me most next to video.
Aug 12 01:36:17 <egaudet> i'll throw up my app too
Aug 12 01:36:18 <egaudet> screenshot that one
Aug 12 01:37:04 <egaudet> ok give me like 30 minutes to clean up a little and verify it works
Aug 12 01:38:25 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: just pushed that, haven't tested, but should work...
Aug 12 01:39:17 <Rick_home> Decimation_:  did I see that you're working on a lauch panel re-configurer to allow more icons per page?
Aug 12 01:39:54 <Decimation_> http://is.gd/2cBUq
Aug 12 01:40:11 <Decimation_> Rick_home: look good? :)
Aug 12 01:40:27 <Rick_home> NICE!!!
Aug 12 01:40:31 <Rick_home> making a patch?
Aug 12 01:40:40 <Decimation_> mhm
Aug 12 01:40:50 <Decimation_> never actually made one before
Aug 12 01:40:54 <Rick_home> me either
Aug 12 01:41:00 <Decimation_> but the file conflicts with the launcher pages?
Aug 12 01:41:18 <Rick_home> with the add-pages-to-launcer mod?
Aug 12 01:41:43 <Rick_home> So, you need two versions of the patch?  one WITH add pages and one WITHOUT?
Aug 12 01:41:49 <Rick_home> and a conditional script?
Aug 12 01:41:56 <Rick_home> someone here OUGHT to be able to help you.
Aug 12 01:44:05 <Decimation> Rick_home: so do you like it?
Aug 12 01:44:27 <Rick_home> you didn't see NICE!!!  about 10 lines up?
Aug 12 01:44:42 <Decimation> :P so thats a yes.
Aug 12 01:44:46 <Rick_home> nodnod
Aug 12 01:44:54 <Decimation> my first mod, im pretty happy with it :)
Aug 12 01:45:04 <Decimation> with the help of destinal and JackieRipper of course.
Aug 12 01:45:17 <JackieRipper> Decimation: Nice work!  Looks smooth
Aug 12 01:45:54 <Decimation> thanks
Aug 12 01:46:00 <Decimation> im leaving tomorrow morning
Aug 12 01:46:05 <Decimation> only reason im not being so lazy
Aug 12 01:46:19 <JackieRipper> Decimation: I would just incorporate the add/remove pages into your patch
Aug 12 01:46:22 <Rick_home> Decimation  are you going to make a wiki page about this patch?  Please pretty please?
Aug 12 01:46:35 <Rick_home> that's a good idea JackieRipper
Aug 12 01:46:43 <JackieRipper> Rick_home: it's already there
Aug 12 01:46:50 <Decimation> Rick_home: there is one, but dont follow those instructions
Aug 12 01:46:53 <Rick_home> ahhhhh
Aug 12 01:46:57 <Decimation> i'm gonna update it, there are some problems with it.
Aug 12 01:46:59 <Rick_home> well, that's my point actually.
Aug 12 01:47:06 <Rick_home> can we have a good one?  Please?
Aug 12 01:48:49 <Decimation> instructions will tell you how to make it look exactly like mine
Aug 12 01:50:48 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: please double check http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/a45462e758db7e06f71ee76eda9bbed6ea066013, and lemme know if that was declared properly
Aug 12 01:52:19 <Decimation> okay
Aug 12 01:52:22 <Decimation> i have on my desktop
Aug 12 01:52:25 <Decimation> the two modified files
Aug 12 01:52:28 <Decimation> and the two original files
Aug 12 01:52:33 <Decimation> what do i do to make a patch
Aug 12 01:53:07 <JackieRipper> Decimation: do you have quilt installed?
Aug 12 01:53:26 <Decimation> i think, lol
Aug 12 01:53:30 <tharris-> evening
Aug 12 01:53:43 <JackieRipper> Decimation http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Removing_all_patches
Aug 12 01:53:47 <JackieRipper> oops
Aug 12 01:53:47 <Rick_home> tharris-:   evening
Aug 12 01:53:58 <JackieRipper> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Creating_a_patch
Aug 12 01:54:01 <JackieRipper> sorry
Aug 12 01:54:13 <tharris-> if anyone has an LG ENV 2 you should read my blog =p
Aug 12 01:54:14 <Rick_home> tharris-:   exciting news..   egaudet  has cracked the on-screen-keyboard goal.  !
Aug 12 01:54:24 <tharris-> Wow! grats
Aug 12 01:54:57 <tharris-> im pressive
Aug 12 01:55:46 <rwhitby> Rick_home: url?
Aug 12 01:55:54 <Rick_home> proof of concept he says at this point, but he can bring up a keyboard using the gesture area, and it has normal letters in it, but functions like palm's on-screen symbol kb except it doesn't go away when you type.
Aug 12 01:56:09 <Rick_home> rwhitby:   he'ls going to post a url in here in a little bit.
Aug 12 01:56:22 <tharris-> fantastic news
Aug 12 01:56:52 <Rick_home> but he's using the charselector class that's in framework -- the thing that makes the symbol table, which we have been talking about for about 2 weeks,  and he's figure out how to patch it.
Aug 12 01:57:30 <Rick_home> and his idea is better than mine was.  I was editing the sym + period table.  He's making a new class, and instantiating it with a gesture when in a text box.
Aug 12 01:57:38 <Rick_home> demo app sometime tonight.
Aug 12 01:58:24 <Rick_home> once again proving that people who understand what's going ON in the programing can do more than people who do not.
Aug 12 01:58:33 <Rick_home> 'cause I -never- understood the charselector class.
Aug 12 01:58:34 <Decimation> so wait
Aug 12 01:58:44 <Decimation> i put the original files on my pre
Aug 12 01:58:50 <Decimation> then add them to the patch
Aug 12 01:58:54 <Decimation> then put the modified one it
Aug 12 01:58:57 <Decimation> and refresh
Aug 12 01:59:03 <Decimation> and it tracks the changes and makes the patch
Aug 12 02:00:31 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: the part in the constructor is wrong
Aug 12 02:00:41 <Zuchmir2> Decimation: try diff oldfile newfile
Aug 12 02:01:08 <Zuchmir2> PuffTheMagic: please explain
Aug 12 02:01:11 <PuffTheMagic> you want to do it like the keydown handler
Aug 12 02:01:32 <Zuchmir2> ok, i see
Aug 12 02:01:53 <Zuchmir2> 	SessionAssistant.prototype.keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift)
Aug 12 02:02:03 <Zuchmir2> is that correct?
Aug 12 02:03:21 <PuffTheMagic> in the constructor you want something like this:
Aug 12 02:03:22 <PuffTheMagic> this._onKeyStateEventHandler = this._onKeyStateEvent.bind(this);
Aug 12 02:03:33 <JackieRipper> Decimation: correct... you you have commit access to gitorious?
Aug 12 02:03:43 <Zuchmir2> do i need a bind?
Aug 12 02:03:53 <Zuchmir2> can't i just call the function?
Aug 12 02:03:58 <Decimation> JackieRipper
Aug 12 02:04:00 <Decimation> i dont think so
Aug 12 02:04:03 <Decimation> can i just send you the patch
Aug 12 02:04:12 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: i beleive the bind() is how JS lets you pass a function as a variable
Aug 12 02:04:18 <JackieRipper> Decimation, email me the patch... I'l commit it
Aug 12 02:04:21 <PuffTheMagic> Zuchmir2: just like u can use a pointer for a function in C
Aug 12 02:04:29 <Decimation> JackieRipper: email is...
Aug 12 02:04:38 <JackieRipper> pm
Aug 12 02:05:34 <rwhitby> Decimation: if the patch is well-formed, we'll give you gitorious commit access.
Aug 12 02:06:02 <Decimation> rwhitby: okay
Aug 12 02:06:07 <Decimation> JackieRipper: sent
Aug 12 02:06:18 <Decimation> hope i did it right, lol
Aug 12 02:06:18 <Zuchmir2> would it not work with a simple: SessionAssistant.prototype.keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift)
Aug 12 02:06:39 <Zuchmir2> is the problem that the "this" doesn't get passed to it?
Aug 12 02:08:45 <Decimation> http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/11/zune-hd-video-hands-on-chock-full-of-media-edition/
Aug 12 02:08:49 <Decimation> sososososososo smoothhhh.
Aug 12 02:11:20 <Zuchmir2> is   this.keyStatesChanged = this._keyStatesChanged.bind(this); / SessionAssistant.prototype._keyStatesChanged = function(gesture, red, sym, shift){}   correct?
Aug 12 02:20:20 <Decimation> JackieRipper: does all and all look fine?
Aug 12 02:20:37 <JackieRipper> having trouble applying it... but it may be me
Aug 12 02:20:39 <JackieRipper> heh
Aug 12 02:20:56 <Decimation> do you currently have the launcher pages mod on?
Aug 12 02:22:52 <JackieRipper> I had done it manually... and I just found the typo I made undoing it
Aug 12 02:22:55 <JackieRipper> heh
Aug 12 02:23:15 <JackieRipper> I did /* at the end, rather than */
Aug 12 02:23:25 <Decimation> lol
Aug 12 02:23:27 <JackieRipper> looks good
Aug 12 02:23:33 <JackieRipper> committing it now
Aug 12 02:23:50 <Decimation> JackieRipper: beautiful, thanks for your help with it.
Aug 12 02:25:08 <Rick_home> Decimation:  1) update the wiki
Aug 12 02:25:20 <Decimation> ughhh :P
Aug 12 02:25:33 <Rick_home> 2) find those "Launcher doesn't allow enough apps" threads in precentral and POINT TO THE WIKI PAGE.   :-)
Aug 12 02:25:35 <Rick_home> 3) bow
Aug 12 02:25:48 <Rick_home> the jobs not done until the paperwork is complete
Aug 12 02:26:30 <Rick_home> egaudet:  got into making it pretty since I said I was going to do a screenshot, didn't he?
Aug 12 02:26:48 <Decimation> Rick_home: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row
Aug 12 02:26:56 <Decimation> i think im just gonna delete all that
Aug 12 02:27:08 <Decimation> and just add the patch
Aug 12 02:27:14 <Decimation> and link to the applying patches page
Aug 12 02:27:37 <JackieRipper> Decimation: mention that the patch in in the modifications repo - luna/more_icons_per_row.patch
Aug 12 02:28:00 <Rick_home> Decimation:   put the fully qualified lnk to the patch onto the page.
Aug 12 02:28:06 <Rick_home> and yes,  delete all that
Aug 12 02:28:12 <Rick_home> since it's all in history if someone wants it.
Aug 12 02:28:24 <Rick_home> and make sure you label it as 1.1 safe
Aug 12 02:36:49 <Decimation> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row
Aug 12 02:41:25 <Decimation> rwhitby: can i get commit access?
Aug 12 02:45:03 <Rick_home> Decimation:  instead of the link to the screenshot,  make a line like this [[Image: 5by7Launcher.png]]   then  click that link and upload your screenshot.
Aug 12 02:47:23 <Decimation> better?
Aug 12 02:49:34 <max_> Decimation: have you looked into increasing the number of rows by decreasing the space between them?
Aug 12 02:50:04 <max_> even if you couldn't fit an entire row in you could at least be able to see the tops of the icons and figure out what they are
Aug 12 02:50:05 <Decimation> max_: I did that, there are now 4 rows, instead of 3
Aug 12 02:50:15 <Rick_home> better
Aug 12 02:50:20 <Rick_home> I floated it right.
Aug 12 02:50:24 <Rick_home> but left might be better
Aug 12 02:50:27 <max_> oh, nvm then.
Aug 12 02:50:42 <Decimation> thats how i am keeping it, if you want more, you'll have to edit the file yourself
Aug 12 02:51:22 <max_> Decimation: looks good. when my new cable comes tomorrow this will be one of the first things I do.
Aug 12 02:52:24 <Decimation> max_: glad to hear it :)
Aug 12 02:53:32 <kesne> Hello all!
Aug 12 02:53:56 <Rick_home> hi ho
Aug 12 02:53:57 <egaudet> fahgetaboutit
Aug 12 02:54:11 <Rick_home> ok egaudet   no pressure no worries
Aug 12 02:54:16 <egaudet> lol
Aug 12 02:54:35 <egaudet> this palm framework is annoying
Aug 12 02:55:32 <egaudet> im reverting to the ugly debugging file that actually doesn't crap out on launch
Aug 12 02:55:37 <Rick_home> no shit egaudet
Aug 12 02:55:55 <egaudet> want me to git the patch
Aug 12 02:59:36 <egaudet> where do you want the patch?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 02:59:57 2009