**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 02:59:57 2009 Aug 12 03:00:18 how do i screenshot from phone? Aug 12 03:01:19 egaudet: Orange+Sym+P Aug 12 03:01:38 it goes to /media/internal? Aug 12 03:01:58 egaudet: Yes, creates a folder called screenshot or something. Aug 12 03:02:12 egaudet: You can view them on your photo app as well. Aug 12 03:03:33 cool Aug 12 03:03:45 whats the best place to upload it quick for everyone to see Aug 12 03:09:14 debugging patch pushed in... have a screenshot of the CSS modified to a better keyboard size... where do i upload it Aug 12 03:10:39 http://imageshack.us/ Aug 12 03:10:45 egaudet: http://imageshack.us/ Aug 12 03:10:48 egaudet, go there, upload, then post the direct link here. Aug 12 03:10:56 thatdude: weird, we both posted that.. lol Aug 12 03:10:59 egaudet: http://tinypic.com/ Aug 12 03:11:11 Decimation: haha Aug 12 03:11:38 egaudet: when are you going to make it public? Aug 12 03:12:16 http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9963/kbtest20091108230156.png Aug 12 03:12:27 I uploaded the patch to git/modifications/ Aug 12 03:12:35 the patch does NOT include the layout of the screenshot Aug 12 03:13:07 i am integrating now, cleaning up the debugging, making it more Palm-friendly Aug 12 03:16:49 okay, how do i access it? Aug 12 03:16:52 i installed the patch Aug 12 03:19:42 hello all, quilt question, i had the full version of quilt on the pre, but i just removed it and installed quilt-lite, i then imported the actual battery % patch, ran quilt push and got "File series fully applied, ends at patch /opt/src/patches/enable-dev-mode-icon.patch" and then stop LunaSysMgr && start LunaSysMgr Aug 12 03:19:43 to restart, but the battery indicator has not changed to % Aug 12 03:20:16 how do i clear out the series so that i can apply the batter patch? Aug 12 03:22:10 hello Aug 12 03:22:25 egaudet: can you post the patch somewhere so i can manually do it? Aug 12 03:22:34 the patch is in git Aug 12 03:22:50 idk where to get it, im not familiar with all this stuff Aug 12 03:22:52 lol Aug 12 03:22:56 make sure you backup entire frameworks directory first Aug 12 03:23:00 I may have the wrong channel, I'm trying to get a little help changing some file permissions inside of /media/internal inside of my Pre. Aug 12 03:23:16 Is that webos, or here at -internals? (Assuming here, but I could be wrong) Aug 12 03:23:54 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/raw/master/onscreen_keyboard/kb.patch Aug 12 03:23:58 heisenman: what do you need to do? Aug 12 03:23:58 Decimation, Aug 12 03:24:08 Decimation, if you install that patch, backup frameworks first please Aug 12 03:24:31 I've used the tutorial at the webos-internals site to set up samba3, and I have it running more or less well, serving up my /media/internals directory as a share on the network. Aug 12 03:24:38 I can see my files, open them, play videos, whatever... Aug 12 03:25:05 But I don't have write access, because I'm authenticated as a user who has no permission to any files/folders from /media/internal on down Aug 12 03:25:06 egaudet: lol, way to much for me to do. Aug 12 03:25:14 but i cant seem to install it with quilt. Aug 12 03:25:50 I set up my account as primary group users (edited /etc/passwd manually, shoot me later), then tried to chown -R /media/internals with group users Aug 12 03:25:51 it's just a .patch, i'm not too familiar with quilt and just did a diff -uNrp Aug 12 03:26:01 and I get ... Operation not permitted Aug 12 03:26:03 As root. Aug 12 03:26:24 With the filesystem mounted rw still (I think, I haven't reset it to ro yet) Aug 12 03:26:59 As a digression, is /media/internals a separate filesystem that I can have constantly mounted rw, or am I just keeping everything open forever? Aug 12 03:28:09 (I'm a VERY inexperienced just-barely-enough-to-be-dangerous network administrator at my company, with ~10 years experience doing minimal installation/setup of mainly redhat-based distros. This stuff is getting way over my head) Aug 12 03:29:19 egaudet: patch wont install. Aug 12 03:29:44 heis: i have ubuntu on my home pc and samba on it, not super experienced either, have not tried samba on the pre though, so i can't really help Aug 12 03:30:04 go to /usr/palm Aug 12 03:30:11 cp -rL frameworks frameworks.bak Aug 12 03:30:12 nodnod Aug 12 03:30:25 copy the patch to /usr/palm/kb.patch Aug 12 03:30:31 go to /usr/palm if not there already Aug 12 03:30:47 patch -p1 < kb.patch Aug 12 03:30:53 this is NOT the supported or desired way Aug 12 03:31:09 and you better make sure you backup ! :) Aug 12 03:31:23 The part that kills me is that I can't chown files AS ROOT. That makes no sense to me. Unless I'm not "root", because there seem to be multiple instantiations of infrastructure keeping certain aspects of the device discreet from each other. Aug 12 03:31:50 Also something I've sorta seen in a few places (specifically these little one-function devices, like the Pre and NAS boxes) but I don't know how all of the pieces interact with each other. Aug 12 03:32:01 Does anyone know why you can't chown a file in /media/internals? Aug 12 03:32:35 Or, well, if you know, you probably can. So I guess I mean why I can't. Aug 12 03:33:53 heis: i get the same thing trying to chown the havefun.mp4 file Aug 12 03:34:00 nod Aug 12 03:34:07 root, non-root, it's all the same. Aug 12 03:34:19 heisenman, it's vfat Aug 12 03:34:20 becuase that filesystem is FAT32 Aug 12 03:34:20 and i "sudo su - " first Aug 12 03:34:50 ... which doesn't support users Aug 12 03:34:51 ah. If it's vfat, no unix permissions, hence no access in that manner... Aug 12 03:34:54 nod, I see. Aug 12 03:35:11 The original purpose was to be able to drag and drop files from windows Aug 12 03:35:14 egaudet: how do i use the keyboard? Aug 12 03:35:23 it would be in the /etc/fstab that u can set who's perm is on that FS Aug 12 03:35:26 wow that whole time my problem was a stupid comma!! arg Aug 12 03:35:32 Decimation, hit the gesture area when text area is up Aug 12 03:36:09 Alternatively, would simply setting...hm. Aug 12 03:36:12 i guess i didnt install it right Aug 12 03:37:28 I see the fstab, and it looks...different than I'm used to. Aug 12 03:37:32 did you reboot LunaSysMgr after installing Aug 12 03:37:42 pkill LunaSysMgr Aug 12 03:38:05 There appears to be no explicit entry about /media/internal (I'm right that this is where you normally store user files?) Aug 12 03:38:32 ah, my fault, it's at the end. Aug 12 03:42:16 gah, I'm chickening out. Before I leap, I'm thinking about changing: Aug 12 03:42:40 dev/mapper/store-media /media/internal vfat utf8,shortname=mixed 0 0 Aug 12 03:43:10 to dev/mapper/store-media /media/internal vfat utf8,gid=100,shortname=mixed 0 0 Aug 12 03:43:24 But I could brick it if I'm not careful. Aug 12 03:44:06 Been a while since I modified this part of the fstab, but that would set the folder/files permissions to group users, no? Aug 12 03:44:44 heisenman: that would change the group protecting /media/internal ro users Aug 12 03:44:51 but would not affect permissions Aug 12 03:44:57 gah. Aug 12 03:45:04 Glad I didn't jump then. Aug 12 03:45:05 edgaudet: yeah, just cant get it workin :/ Aug 12 03:45:07 that is, if group does not have write access... Aug 12 03:45:31 i'll have a new cleaner one soon Aug 12 03:45:35 so should I explicitly add in user,rw ? Aug 12 03:45:45 hmm Aug 12 03:45:48 one sec Aug 12 03:46:57 I would do uid=1001 (or the uid of your user) Aug 12 03:47:20 egaudet: i just dont get why this one wont install Aug 12 03:47:39 hm Aug 12 03:47:40 ok Aug 12 03:48:13 fstab now shows: Aug 12 03:48:26 dev/mapper/store-media /media/internal vfat utf8,shortname=mixed,uid=1001 0 0 Aug 12 03:48:42 Rebooting, let's see what happens. Aug 12 03:50:02 did the output of patch -p1 look oK? Aug 12 03:52:05 has anyone successfully compiled directvnc on the pre? Aug 12 03:53:27 lmao, guys, i made it, so the quick launch allows 5 apps Aug 12 03:53:41 but the when i moved the 5th app on there, i know it went to it Aug 12 03:53:44 but it doesnt show up Aug 12 03:54:11 like.. it dissappeared from the launcher Aug 12 03:54:20 SWEET ACTION. Aug 12 03:54:21 but it doesnt show up on the quicklaunch Aug 12 03:54:29 JackieRipper, danke very mucho. Aug 12 03:54:37 That did the trick. Aug 12 03:54:45 destinal, JackieRipper: you guys here? Aug 12 03:54:51 I'm here Aug 12 03:54:55 heisenman: cool Aug 12 03:55:08 canAddDockPoint: function(launchPointId) { Aug 12 03:55:10 return this._quicklaunchApps.length < 4 || this.getDockPoint(launchPointId) != null; Aug 12 03:55:12 }, Aug 12 03:55:14 i found that function Aug 12 03:55:16 changed 4 to 5 Aug 12 03:55:25 it allowed me to drag to icon over the quicklaunch Aug 12 03:55:32 and it removed it from the launcher Aug 12 03:55:40 but now the icon is gone, magically vanished. Aug 12 03:55:44 Very. I'm not sure if this would be considered a security issue, but adding it to the webos-internals website for installing samba would probably help a LOT of people get r/w access to their Pre. Aug 12 03:56:03 heisenman: what about sftp ? Aug 12 03:56:27 Jackie: wouldn't the same issue apply? You don't have user permissions for file creation. Aug 12 03:57:13 I had a hell of a day, but I vaguely remember trying winscp once as an alternate method. Aug 12 03:57:15 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setup_SFTP Aug 12 03:57:19 Same issue, more or less. Aug 12 03:57:23 this has been scripted Aug 12 03:57:26 Er. Let me read that tutorial. Aug 12 03:57:48 it's part of the optware setup script here http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Aug 12 03:58:38 okay, so i figured out how to actually add the 6th icon to the quicklaunch Aug 12 03:58:44 now i dont know how to make it show up :/ Aug 12 03:58:48 I'm confused... Aug 12 03:59:02 I actually did follow the next_steps tutorial, all except for installing quilt. Aug 12 03:59:31 Where does it say to change user id for the filesystem? Or is that supposed to be part of the shell script? Aug 12 04:00:04 sorry, I meant installing and configuring sftp is part of the next_steps script Aug 12 04:00:45 In WinSCP, check 'Advanced Options' and select "Environment>SFTP". In the SFTP server box enter: sudo /opt/libexec/sftp-server Aug 12 04:01:26 Ah. Ok... Aug 12 04:02:10 Even there, I just don't see the place where you set file permissions to allow for file creation. I'm willing to believe that installing the sftp server makes some changes to the fstab, but perhaps there's an intricacy I'm missing. Aug 12 04:02:18 ive put my phone in a weird situation Aug 12 04:02:34 heisenman: running something with sudo = running as root Aug 12 04:02:42 when i drag an icon over the quicklauncher, it makes the icon dissappear from my launcher... Aug 12 04:02:45 got it. Aug 12 04:02:46 then when i restart luna Aug 12 04:02:48 HAH. Aug 12 04:02:48 its back Aug 12 04:03:21 Well, I definitely see the advantage in keeping everything as root... Aug 12 04:03:43 But I'm happy to just require authentication of a non-root user for samba purposes :) Aug 12 04:03:54 But thank you, that approach is one I hadn't thought of. Aug 12 04:04:02 samba is rather huge, though Aug 12 04:04:27 Agreed. Someone on some forum (pre-somethingoranother) claimed to have gotten samba2 working instead of samba3. Aug 12 04:04:38 Cuts the install size by a lot, I think. Aug 12 04:05:00 how big is it, though? Where are they installing? Aug 12 04:05:30 Either way, one way or another having windows-based drag and drop over the network is quite useful. No more plugging the phone into the computer (unless you calendar sync) Aug 12 04:05:53 gotta love winscp :) Aug 12 04:06:03 it may be useful for some.... Aug 12 04:06:05 :) Aug 12 04:06:13 I don't actually have a win box Aug 12 04:06:22 I envy you. Aug 12 04:06:23 :P Aug 12 04:06:32 have a fruit? Aug 12 04:06:38 hell no Aug 12 04:06:41 :-P Aug 12 04:06:45 I've ended up in so much hardware hell I've almost had to give up on linux as a main OS. Aug 12 04:07:00 Almost everything non-desktop is some variant of unix still, however. Aug 12 04:07:14 windows 7 is my love. Aug 12 04:07:24 And, with luck, all of the hardware issues go away when any and all tv tuner cards just stop working :P Aug 12 04:07:42 heh Aug 12 04:08:35 bbiab Aug 12 04:10:04 egaudet: http://webos.pastebin.com/m50ca4bbb Aug 12 04:10:17 what i get when i try to install your patch Aug 12 04:11:01 Decimation: it looks like you are in a directory other than where the patch was created Aug 12 04:12:04 JackieRipper: what should i go to then? Aug 12 04:12:10 not sure Aug 12 04:12:21 # You should still be in the / directory to run quilt. Aug 12 04:12:22 quilt push Aug 12 04:12:23 I'm trying to figure out what is getting patched Aug 12 04:12:28 thats from the wiki Aug 12 04:12:31 says i have to be in / Aug 12 04:12:40 what did you use to patch it? Aug 12 04:12:42 is that a quilt patch? And was he in / when he created it? Aug 12 04:12:48 not quilt Aug 12 04:12:51 just a diff -uNrp Aug 12 04:12:57 base is /usr/palm Aug 12 04:13:31 idk what to do with that :/ Aug 12 04:13:37 im not linux-savy just quite yet.. lol Aug 12 04:14:13 Decimation: cd /usr/palm ; patch < /path/to/file.patch Aug 12 04:16:52 http://webos.pastebin.com/m1b4b569 Aug 12 04:17:43 JackieRipper, egaudet: i just don't know what it wants from me.. lol Aug 12 04:20:56 odd Aug 12 04:21:21 http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/158/browser20091208001720.png Aug 12 04:21:24 :D Aug 12 04:21:31 get your backup back Decimation Aug 12 04:23:32 kk, i reverted back to my backup Aug 12 04:23:33 Rick_home, you still around Aug 12 04:25:19 got tossed Aug 12 04:25:21 just got back Aug 12 04:25:42 egaudet: whenever you release a version i can install, tell me :P Aug 12 04:26:21 check the screenshot :) and now I want to make a legit patch for people to use... who's gonna walk me through it ?? :( Aug 12 04:26:40 like, a quilt patch? Aug 12 04:26:45 i just made my first one today, i could help. Aug 12 04:26:49 egaudet: which screenshot Aug 12 04:26:49 yea Aug 12 04:26:50 egaudet: our patches are all rooted at /, not /usr/plam Aug 12 04:27:00 http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/158/browser20091208001720.png Aug 12 04:27:06 ok Aug 12 04:27:16 nice Aug 12 04:27:27 destinal: i found a file that allowed me to add one more icon to the quicklaunch Aug 12 04:27:39 cool Aug 12 04:27:42 egaudet: I can take you through the patch creation process Aug 12 04:27:49 the display didnt change on the quicklaunch, but when i dragged it over the quicklaunch, it removed from the launcher. Aug 12 04:27:52 rwhitby, ok lets do it Aug 12 04:27:55 now i just gotta find that. Aug 12 04:28:00 I just copied the entire frameworks directory from my pre to my pc Aug 12 04:28:11 egaudet: you're on the Applying_Patches page? Aug 12 04:28:26 egaudet: BTW, I find the emulator the easiest place to create patches Aug 12 04:28:34 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches Aug 12 04:30:31 ok let me run the quilt-lite upgrade Aug 12 04:32:10 WHAT A GREAT IMAGE Aug 12 04:32:11 cool Aug 12 04:32:14 thanks egaudet Aug 12 04:32:41 I'm so happy to have gotten through the framework i think i saved a copy to 5 different places lol Aug 12 04:33:17 I'm going to try to echo all of the submissions/ into a big file one day and see how close it matches the big framework file Aug 12 04:34:11 Hmmm ok Aug 12 04:34:20 so i'm ready to quilt Aug 12 04:34:34 do i need a "virgin" copy of the pre rootfs Aug 12 04:34:49 or is quilt just going to patch the files I request? Aug 12 04:35:17 egaudet: you add the unedited files Aug 12 04:35:26 then replace them with your modifed ones Aug 12 04:35:30 and run the refresh command Aug 12 04:35:39 it it creates the patch by looking at the changes Aug 12 04:38:06 egaudet: you need virgin copies of all the files that are going to be touched Aug 12 04:38:31 then you need to tell quilt about every file you are going to touch, *before* you touch it. Aug 12 04:38:47 (so it can squirrel away the unedited version, and then diff against it later) Aug 12 04:40:07 JackieRipper: do you need to remove the add/delete launcher pages mod to install mine correctly? Aug 12 04:40:15 Decimation: yes Aug 12 04:41:00 I'm still trying to figure out how to remove a patch Aug 12 04:41:05 I can remove them all Aug 12 04:41:13 which is what I've been doing Aug 12 04:41:25 lol, kk, some guy asked on pre central and i didnt know the answer.. lol Aug 12 04:41:42 quilt pop -a ; quilt delete /opt/src/patches/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch ; quilt push -a Aug 12 04:42:52 that will revert all patches, remove the add/delete launcher pages mod from the group of patches, then reapply the rest of the patches Aug 12 04:43:52 JackieRipper: I just quilt pop -a, then quilt import or quilt new. no need to delete patches Aug 12 04:44:33 rwhitby: Decimation's patch incorporates and expands the add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch Aug 12 04:44:52 so we're trying to unapply /opt/src/patches/add-delete-pages-in-the-launcher.patch Aug 12 04:44:53 JackieRipper: ah, ok. Aug 12 04:45:19 rwhitby: yeah, my patch assumes you dont have the add-delete-pages patch installed. Aug 12 04:45:26 damnit Aug 12 04:45:30 i just quilt add to like 10 files Aug 12 04:45:35 and then quilt files says no patches applied Aug 12 04:45:47 did you add the original files? Aug 12 04:45:55 yea Aug 12 04:45:57 okay Aug 12 04:46:01 now once you do that Aug 12 04:46:16 oh wrong window Aug 12 04:46:17 nm Aug 12 04:46:24 lol Aug 12 04:46:37 after you add them Aug 12 04:46:45 just replace them with modified files and run quilt refresh Aug 12 04:46:45 egaudet: add, edit, refresh Aug 12 04:47:10 rwhitby: can i get commit access to git. Aug 12 04:47:17 get it got it good Aug 12 04:48:49 Decimation: just clone it and and push to your private one and i will merge in your changes Aug 12 04:48:57 someone will get sick of that and add you eventually Aug 12 04:49:13 Decimation: rwhitby is in the process of switching us over to a new git server anyway Aug 12 04:49:31 PuffTheMagic: gotcha, thanks. Aug 12 04:49:53 so im supposed to do git remote rm origin Aug 12 04:49:57 Decimation: I haven't had a chance to look at your patch yet, but yes, if it's well formed you will. Aug 12 04:50:08 egaudet: no Aug 12 04:50:19 that's what the wiki say Aug 12 04:50:35 rwhitby: okie dokie. Aug 12 04:50:39 egaudet: why would you do this? Aug 12 04:50:43 maybe i am missing something Aug 12 04:50:58 * PuffTheMagic hasnt done that in 2 years of using git Aug 12 04:51:22 that's why i didn't do it, it sounded funny Aug 12 04:51:24 but the wiki says to Aug 12 04:51:37 origin is "typically" the name of the main repo that you have push access to Aug 12 04:51:42 anyhow i just git commit on my pre Aug 12 04:51:42 rwhitby: the patch applied cleanly on my pre, for what it's worth Aug 12 04:51:45 so git push should work? Aug 12 04:51:48 the name on your local box Aug 12 04:52:01 what is the link to this wiki Aug 12 04:52:06 wiki page Aug 12 04:52:11 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches Aug 12 04:52:11 egaudet: i dont really know what u are doing Aug 12 04:52:20 pushing on screen keyboard patch Aug 12 04:52:22 so unless you say why you were gonna do that then i cant help Aug 12 04:52:45 i quilted it, and it's in /opt/source/modifications/OnScreenKeyboard git commited Aug 12 04:54:37 i dont advise using git and quilt together Aug 12 04:55:10 I used quilt to create the patch Aug 12 04:55:15 PuffTheMagic: what's wrong with keeping a git repo of quilt patches? Aug 12 04:55:22 now i have the .patch i need to push it in Aug 12 04:55:33 there is no such thing as a "quilt patch" Aug 12 04:55:36 there are just patches Aug 12 04:55:42 a patch via quilt Aug 12 04:55:46 a patch made using quilt Aug 12 04:56:16 PuffTheMagic: have you read the Applying Patches page? Aug 12 04:56:33 egaudet: you've done the right thing Aug 12 04:56:54 egaudet: how did you choose the subdirectory name in which you put the patch? Aug 12 04:57:24 its just a mess and very complicated for git noobs, it has people doing things with out giving them an idea why they are doing it Aug 12 04:57:31 I made it OnScreenKeyboard, but I want it to be onscreen_keyboard like the last checkin, so i gotta uncommit this on my pre Aug 12 04:57:39 im just gonna copy the file out to my pc and git it Aug 12 04:57:49 PuffTheMagic: then please write a better process. until then, that process stands. Aug 12 04:58:34 http://webos.pastebin.com/m2eb082c Aug 12 04:58:37 well the whole idea of storing diffs in a git repo is stilly since a diff of a diff isnt gonna make much sense Aug 12 04:58:38 should i name the subdirectory framework? Aug 12 04:58:45 but i understand we cant post whole palm code Aug 12 04:58:47 any idea why someone would get that error while trying to install my patch? Aug 12 04:59:00 its just a a very weird system Aug 12 04:59:08 egaudet: in which directory on the Pre are the files modified? Aug 12 04:59:16 /usr/palm/frameworks Aug 12 04:59:19 PuffTheMagic: what's your alternative? Aug 12 04:59:27 Decimation: yeah because you created the diff int he wrong directory and applied it with the wrong patch command Aug 12 05:00:04 egaudet: ok, so it should be in a frameworks subdir, and name the patch a-really-long-name-that-says-what-it-does-functionally.patch Aug 12 05:00:32 add-onscreen-keyboard.patch Aug 12 05:00:39 or just onscreen-keyboard.patch Aug 12 05:00:42 yup Aug 12 05:00:48 either is fine Aug 12 05:01:09 make sure that patch has / as the origin for the filenames in it Aug 12 05:01:20 PuffTheMagic: so what would the person who tried to apply it do to make it work? Aug 12 05:01:25 rwhitby: ftp? idk havent really thought of a better way, its just like, a really weird way of using git Aug 12 05:01:45 PuffTheMagic: git is just the distribution mechanism. think of them as binary files, not patches. Aug 12 05:01:50 rwhitby: they dont need to be in /, they can just cd into the correct directory and use the right -p# command Aug 12 05:01:58 rwhitby: like i said i get why its being done Aug 12 05:02:04 its just..... ugly Aug 12 05:02:10 JackieRipper: did you let quilt install my patch or do it manually? Aug 12 05:02:15 PuffTheMagic: they need to be /, so that there is *one* way to apply them Aug 12 05:02:16 a bad first impression for git users Aug 12 05:02:22 Decimation: quilt Aug 12 05:02:56 JackieRipper: okay, just makin sure it works.. lol, it isnt working for this guy who posted on my precentral thread, and idk what to tell him, im not familiar with this stuff :/ Aug 12 05:02:57 PuffTheMagic: what is wrong with using git to store patches? git is simply a content management system. Aug 12 05:03:03 rwhitby: people should learn to use patch properly, telling them to "just do it this way" does not make people learn Aug 12 05:03:08 then we have issues like Decimation has Aug 12 05:03:44 PuffTheMagic: people installing the patches usually arent looking to learn, just modify their phone. Aug 12 05:03:59 PuffTheMagic: I'd have to say it's an extremely common way to use git - a repository of revision-controlled files Aug 12 05:04:15 PuffTheMagic: if you want to change the process, change the *whole* process and surrounding infrastructure. don't just butt in a lead someone down the wrong path on one single tiny item of the process and confuse everything. Aug 12 05:04:24 EVENTUALLY what we're going to want is a Webos-internals PATCHING APP Aug 12 05:04:25 the fact that the files are not source code may be a bit odd, granted Aug 12 05:04:44 JackieRipper: there's nothing that says git needs to control source code Aug 12 05:04:54 git is *intentionally* content agnostic Aug 12 05:04:56 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/197904-how-get-more-icons-row-launcher.html Aug 12 05:04:59 which will take patches, and apply them.... and Aunt Mimzy can do it. Aug 12 05:05:03 rwhitby: agreed... that's just its most common use Aug 12 05:05:03 if anyone knows how to fix that guys problem, feel free to reply Aug 12 05:05:17 Ok patch is in Aug 12 05:05:54 until then, all this command-line complex stuff is WAY BEYOND Aunt Mimzy. We need the file-coaster of patching programs. :-) Aug 12 05:05:56 Now when I update the custom files I added that are in that patch, i gotta go through that whole quilt process again Aug 12 05:06:22 egaudet: quilt pop back to the specific patch, then modify the files, then quilt refresh Aug 12 05:06:29 Decimation: are you referring to intro's post? Aug 12 05:06:58 60 app limit, you got to be kidding meh Aug 12 05:07:00 he has applied the add/delete pages mod, but most likely not using patch Aug 12 05:07:03 why are people not using git to create patches? Aug 12 05:07:11 egaudet: does the palm code you are patching really have no indentation? Aug 12 05:07:21 rwhitby, REALLY Aug 12 05:07:26 you don't even want to get me started Aug 12 05:07:27 hunks 2 and 3 of your patch replicate that mod Aug 12 05:07:28 JackieRipper: yes Aug 12 05:07:32 PuffTheMagic: cause then you need to git add / on the Pre. Aug 12 05:07:41 60 app limit, you got to be kidding meh Aug 12 05:08:06 they take all their javascripts, throw them into one huge file with terrible indentation and call it a day Aug 12 05:08:24 So difficult to debug that missing comma i had earlier lol Aug 12 05:09:13 rwhitby Framework.js has not QUITE been minified, but it has been de-spaced, de-commented and de-indented. Aug 12 05:09:23 rwhitby: something wrong with doing dev work on a desktop/laptop instead of a pre Aug 12 05:09:30 then only applying the final product to the pre Aug 12 05:09:33 so just for those of us who came in late... Aug 12 05:09:36 use quilt on the pre fine Aug 12 05:09:42 use git to create the patch on the desktop Aug 12 05:09:50 rwhitby, it's the equivalent of compiled code. the source is in the charselector app class files, and it's quite NICELY indented. Aug 12 05:09:59 egaudet: keyboard looks nice Aug 12 05:10:03 needs a backspace thoughhh. Aug 12 05:10:18 yea I was too tired to add anything other than the alphabet for now Aug 12 05:10:51 heisenman: for those who came in late, egaudet has solved the on-screen-keyboard problem. Aug 12 05:10:55 tomorrow i'll have a good detailed list of ideas on where to expand and start getting it functional. My idea is to mimic the look/layout of the hard keyboard Aug 12 05:11:38 egaudet: sounds great, cant wait. Aug 12 05:11:43 amazing work sir. And my hats off to you for the bravery to dig into framework Aug 12 05:11:55 Decimation: and if people cant be bothered to learn patch they have no business hacking the pre Aug 12 05:11:56 rwhitby: how should two patches that conflict be handled? Aug 12 05:12:05 the program is dead simple Aug 12 05:12:28 PuffTheMagic: my take on this, is that it should all be noob friendly. Aug 12 05:12:45 you shouldn't have to learn to modify your phone, its the ease of use. Aug 12 05:12:46 Decimation: we are not at that state at this point Aug 12 05:12:53 Rick_home, heh thanks, I only wish I could have edited the nicer-looking submissions/ files. Tomorrow we can get a nice list of things we want to do to the kb Aug 12 05:12:57 Decimation: this is hacking an interface Aug 12 05:13:02 this is not installing a plug and play app Aug 12 05:13:06 there is learning Aug 12 05:13:14 PuffTheMagic: it depends.... Aug 12 05:13:22 PuffTheMagic: this COULD be installing a plug and play app Aug 12 05:13:26 this is not noob territory Aug 12 05:13:26 PuffTheMagic: well plug and play is all the general community wants. Aug 12 05:13:27 we could make a PATCHING APP Aug 12 05:13:36 that Aunt Mimzzy could use. Aug 12 05:13:39 Decimation: we are working to that Aug 12 05:13:39 I'm with Rick_home Aug 12 05:13:57 we should no be holding peoples hands using git and quilt and patch Aug 12 05:13:59 that is crazy Aug 12 05:14:05 Rick_home: patches should be built into the app installer. Aug 12 05:14:14 actially, of course, the reality is if we get preware working Aug 12 05:14:17 PuffTheMagic: Decimation patched an app to make it cooler... what's wrong with sharing that with n00bs? Aug 12 05:14:23 the ipkg can run a post-install file Aug 12 05:14:31 and the post-install file can do anything INCLUDING a patch Aug 12 05:14:37 and have dependencies. Aug 12 05:14:39 so, Aug 12 05:14:42 JackieRipper: share it all you want, dont come here for help applying it Aug 12 05:14:56 what happens when we start having multiple patches in the same area that conflict Aug 12 05:15:13 egaudet: that's the tricky part isn't it? Aug 12 05:15:18 egaudet: that has already happened with my patch, and im concerned about it as well. Aug 12 05:15:25 rwhitby: a simple script could use -p[1-9] and apply any patch regardless of where it was based Aug 12 05:15:47 patches based at / make things harder Aug 12 05:16:04 Decimation: -- the solution we saddly can't use is to distribute the patched version of the file.... :-( Aug 12 05:16:11 PuffTheMagic: i came here asking for help so IIIII could learn. Aug 12 05:16:16 The only solution I can think of is making patches required Aug 12 05:16:24 dependencies. Aug 12 05:16:26 Decimation: but you said you didnt want to learn patch Aug 12 05:16:27 PuffTheMagic: making things n00b friendly is what quieted all the n00b chatter in here... since the boot strap scripts have been put out there, 99% of the "I need help rooting my pre" have been eliminated. I, for one, don't care if people don't know what the script does, as long as it works for them Aug 12 05:16:30 patch 1 is dependent on patch 2 Aug 12 05:16:35 which is dependent on patch 3 Aug 12 05:16:41 and IPKG HANDLES DEPENDENCIES Aug 12 05:16:44 PuffTheMagic: I do, but the people using my patch don't Aug 12 05:16:52 so if we package patches as ipkg's we're all set. Aug 12 05:17:00 I'm here to learn, but I also want to be able to help those who just want to easily modify their phone. Aug 12 05:17:10 Patches are clearly the trickiest part of this all, and I think we should design strict rules/formats for the process Aug 12 05:17:19 nodnod Aug 12 05:17:29 quilt helped. Aug 12 05:17:33 maybe start with Palm base and do numbered patches, any subsequent patch must be patched against entire patched tree Aug 12 05:17:34 yes and diffs should be made within the source directory Aug 12 05:17:36 but it isn't the magic we hoped it would be. Aug 12 05:17:58 numbered patches with DEPENDENCIES Aug 12 05:18:08 you can patch email without having to path launcher... Aug 12 05:18:17 actually i am against putting patches in ipkgs Aug 12 05:18:22 Rick_home: there's never going to be perfect magic. Some patches will conflict Aug 12 05:18:27 but if you do the resize patch to launcher you HAVE TO have installed the pages patch Aug 12 05:18:35 Jackie I know that, Aug 12 05:18:49 and of couse, then, programmers will be making NEW ONES. Aug 12 05:18:56 there's no true magic solution. Aug 12 05:19:09 but a dependency tree would help. Aug 12 05:19:15 ok Aug 12 05:19:19 I'm off to bed Aug 12 05:19:33 if someone comes up with a clever plan.... write it up and post it Aug 12 05:19:43 yea sleep sounds good, good night all Aug 12 05:19:52 congrats egaudet Aug 12 05:21:55 PuffTheMagic: is there a particular reason diffs should be made in the source dir? Aug 12 05:22:08 other than common usage? Aug 12 05:24:32 PuffTheMagic: : our patches are rooted at /, so that *all* the information required to apply the patch is included in the same file. Aug 12 05:24:54 PuffTheMagic: otherwise, you also need to distribute *where* you need to run the patch from, or what the -pN value should be. Aug 12 05:25:05 This is an interchange format. Aug 12 05:26:12 as Rick_zzzzz says, this will be wrapped in convenience just like we wrapped the bootstrap scripts. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 05:26:18 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 05:28:14 2009 Aug 12 05:28:19 Should I force, or is this something I should be worrying about? Aug 12 05:28:23 this is a place peopel should come to discuss development Aug 12 05:28:28 I would not force it Aug 12 05:28:29 this is not the spoon feeding place, but it is the teaching a man to fish with the pre-configured fishing rod you sold him place Aug 12 05:28:30 not to learn how to apply patches Aug 12 05:28:51 rwhitby: they should make their own fishing rod too Aug 12 05:28:53 ;) Aug 12 05:29:00 PuffTheMagic: they will, eventually. Aug 12 05:29:07 no they wont Aug 12 05:29:15 not with all this hand holding Aug 12 05:29:29 I guess I'm in the wrong place then Aug 12 05:29:29 we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. Aug 12 05:29:44 heh, i got a new pre last night Aug 12 05:29:52 JackieRipper: you're the classic example. You learnt enough to create the bootstrap scripts and make it easy for everyone else. Aug 12 05:29:53 and by "new' i mean refurb Aug 12 05:30:02 and it looks like it was already novacom'd Aug 12 05:30:03 JackieRipper: i am usually in the minority around here Aug 12 05:30:05 JackieRipper is the existence proof. Aug 12 05:30:07 so dont go running away Aug 12 05:30:50 PuffTheMagic: it's true that a good many people won't learn. but if you don't teach, then you won't find the diamonds in the rough like JackieRipper Aug 12 05:31:16 JackieRipper: i have no patience for people that want to hack on a linux box but wont learn what they are doing Aug 12 05:31:23 rwhitby: In some form or another, I'm in Unix tech support, though I don't interact with users very much as late Aug 12 05:31:32 JackieRipper: and i didnt mean you in that statement Aug 12 05:31:34 just in general Aug 12 05:31:56 If I hadn't taught JackieRipper about optware bootstrap, I would have needed to write an maintain that bootstrap script myself. Now I know that JackieRipper will maintain it, and I don't have to lift a finger. That's how the community scales. Aug 12 05:32:02 Puff: I may be a culprit here. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 05:32:06 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 12 05:34:15 2009 Aug 12 05:34:19 that should be in the "advanced hacking" section Aug 12 05:34:20 Right, and the onscreen kb is invalid as is until there is a user configurable way to shut off and use Palm default behavior Aug 12 05:35:18 The only way around patch conflicts is a central repository with strict guidelines, otherwise it's just not going to work Aug 12 05:35:28 PuffTheMagic: what's the alternative, which allows for a patch to a palm app to be applied by Rick_zzzzz's Aunt Minnie who only knows enough to run WebOS Quick Install and fileCoaster ? Aug 12 05:36:02 egaudet|Away: that's what the modifications git repo is meant to be. that patches are rooted at / is one of the strict guidelines. Aug 12 05:36:07 rwhitby: should should not be doing such things Aug 12 05:36:19 she^^ Aug 12 05:36:30 PuffTheMagic: that's too elitist for me to agree with. Aug 12 05:36:38 lol, this guy PMed me asking about rooting Aug 12 05:36:43 and i asked if he had msn or aim Aug 12 05:36:45 he replies Aug 12 05:36:46 Yeah I do I have yahoo messenger and msn on my laptop do I need to remove those cuz I don't use them? Aug 12 05:36:55 PuffTheMagic, with knowledge comes power, with power comes responsibility Aug 12 05:36:59 Yes, yes you should. Aug 12 05:37:16 If you don't use system32 on a regular basis, you should remove that as well. Aug 12 05:37:17 we have a responsibility to those annoying noobs Aug 12 05:37:19 * rwhitby bbiab Aug 12 05:37:29 (Don't say that. It's mean.) Aug 12 05:37:35 (Refer him to the tutorial) Aug 12 05:37:55 rwhitby: can you show me where the palm licenses are on the pre userland that actually prohibit us from posting whole files Aug 12 05:37:58 heisenman: lol, i did. Aug 12 05:38:38 cause i dont remember anything about source code when i first created my palm profile Aug 12 05:38:49 and i dont know how anything can prove that i used the sdk Aug 12 05:39:08 i could have used dd to dump the disk contents and then inspected the content in a hex editor Aug 12 05:39:28 PuffTheMagic: all source code is copywrited by default in many countries Aug 12 05:39:37 right copyrighted Aug 12 05:39:41 but where is the license Aug 12 05:39:56 PuffTheMagic: unless specifically granted a licence to distribute, you may not Aug 12 05:40:17 PuffTheMagic: Without a license, no sharing is permitted. THe law of copyright is "default deny" Aug 12 05:40:22 so the lack of license you're asking for means that you may not distribute Aug 12 05:40:29 Like a good firewall Aug 12 05:40:32 why cant i run a library for code Aug 12 05:40:36 books are copyrighted Aug 12 05:40:44 and yet people can go to a library and look at books Aug 12 05:40:54 and i belive code falls into the same category as books Aug 12 05:40:59 But you can't _copy_ them Aug 12 05:41:00 but you may not make a new copy Aug 12 05:41:04 or post to the net Aug 12 05:41:15 writing out the contents of a book and selling it is illegal, too Aug 12 05:41:19 only small excerpts for review purposes Aug 12 05:41:25 i can quote a whole book if i reference it Aug 12 05:41:32 no you can't Aug 12 05:41:38 not legally Aug 12 05:41:52 i cant sell it Aug 12 05:41:56 but i can pass it around Aug 12 05:42:01 PuffTheMagic: Look up 'Fair Use Guidelines' - Basically, small bits for review or parody is OK. Otherwise, no. Aug 12 05:42:02 no you can't Aug 12 05:42:11 PuffTheMagic: think napster Aug 12 05:42:32 you can't distribute without permission Aug 12 05:42:43 PuffTheMagic: It's any redistribution that is disallowed. Giving it to your brother is illegal too. Aug 12 05:43:22 so everyone post a portion of the palm code online for fair use Aug 12 05:43:36 fair use has to be justified Aug 12 05:43:38 we can napster palm Aug 12 05:43:43 what's the fair use? Aug 12 05:44:08 PuffTheMagic: Napster was ruled illegal Aug 12 05:45:13 PuffTheMagic: Read Groklaw for a really good series of explanations of copyright Aug 12 05:45:43 well where are the copyrights on the source files? Aug 12 05:46:08 as I said, in many countries, all code is auto-copywrited Aug 12 05:46:16 PuffTheMagic: The law says that anything created by a person or company is copyrighted to them BY DEFAULT Aug 12 05:46:32 the US is one of those countries Aug 12 05:47:33 i beleive it has to be filed in the copyright office for them to have any legal grounds to it Aug 12 05:47:34 Puff: One of the reasons the US is having so much press about the RIAA/MPAA taking various actions legal or no against filesharers... Aug 12 05:48:01 Is because the idea that "making available" content that you don't own (have the copyright to) is implicitly illegal in US law. Aug 12 05:48:23 PuffTheMagic: You may believe that. Every single judge doesn't. Aug 12 05:48:25 how do i know palm owns a file if the file has no copyright in it Aug 12 05:48:27 Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with that law, the current precedents being set are reinforcing that legal implication. Aug 12 05:48:31 PuffTheMagic: that may be true for patents everywhere but the US, but not copywrite Aug 12 05:48:45 Puff: If you didn't write the file, someone did. That person owns the copyright. Aug 12 05:49:24 so then someone needs my permission to post the log of the channel? Aug 12 05:49:33 if it contains my text? Aug 12 05:49:41 Whoever owns freenode owns the copyright to this text Aug 12 05:49:51 they didnt write my words though Aug 12 05:49:57 You're writing on it, but the program that's generating your content is owned by them. Aug 12 05:50:08 This is actually a really tricky part of copyright law, and IANAL Aug 12 05:50:13 So I won't get too far into this. Aug 12 05:50:30 Because I know about 2% of what I need to to be spot on legally Aug 12 05:50:49 PuffTheMagic: heisenman: No, you agreed to the TOS by connecting to the server, and _that_ gives Freenode the copyrighy Aug 12 05:50:50 But if you talk to a copyright lawyer (tort?) they'll end up giving you a similar response. Aug 12 05:50:59 *copyright Aug 12 05:51:04 Danke, eternaleye. Aug 12 05:51:12 so when does a digital file become a copy and not the origional? Aug 12 05:51:18 I didn't know there was a TOS because..uh...I read everything I should, I swear. Aug 12 05:51:34 A digital file contains content. Aug 12 05:51:38 The file is an object Aug 12 05:51:42 The content is copywritten. Aug 12 05:51:48 thats not what i asked Aug 12 05:52:00 heisenman: There's _always_ a TOS ;D (if only for CYA) Aug 12 05:52:01 Similarly in software, microsoft issues a cd with win7 on it. Aug 12 05:52:05 if i am given a file and i move it somewhere Aug 12 05:52:10 is that a copy or the origional? Aug 12 05:52:14 You own the cd you bought from the store. Aug 12 05:52:21 Microsoft owns the content on the CD. Aug 12 05:52:29 PuffTheMagic: It counts as copying when it changes hands Aug 12 05:52:48 They have a EULA granting you the license to install their content on one or more computers (depending on the EULA). Aug 12 05:52:59 But they still retain ownership of the content on the CD/DVD. Aug 12 05:53:10 i am not talking about ownership right now Aug 12 05:53:14 PuffTheMagic: If this doesn't work, the GPL doesn't work either. Which would you like: That the GPL (and all code based on it) is invalid, or that you can share the Palm files? Aug 12 05:53:21 Ah, I see. Aug 12 05:53:22 Fair use. Aug 12 05:53:33 Whether or not you are legally allowed to make a copy. Aug 12 05:53:41 s/or/and/ Aug 12 05:53:41 eternaleye meant: PuffTheMagic: If this doesn't wandk, the GPL doesn't work either. Which would you like: That the GPL (and all code based on it) is invalid, or that you can share the Palm files? Aug 12 05:54:08 infobot: FAIL Aug 12 05:54:09 extra, extra, read all about it, fail is what happens to you when you follow gamespot's game advice. standing in the fire. Aug 12 05:54:30 Stallman's ears are mow burning Aug 12 05:54:30 s/ or / and / Aug 12 05:55:10 he has no idea why, but he has the urge to scream, "It's copyLEFT, not copyright!" Aug 12 05:55:13 PuffTheMagic: heisenman: it becomes illegal redistribution when you give it to someone else and keep a copy for yourself Aug 12 05:55:23 JackieRipper: :D Aug 12 05:55:24 * psykoz grins Aug 12 05:55:27 Stallman is a nut job ;) Aug 12 05:55:31 aye Aug 12 05:55:42 right but no one has explained when a "digital" file becomes a copy Aug 12 05:55:48 But he has a katana, so be careful saying that to his face Aug 12 05:56:03 I always love: http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/su-invocation.html scroll down to section 23.5.1 Aug 12 05:56:17 PuffTheMagic: I just said it. When someone else gains access to it, and you keep access to it. Aug 12 05:56:18 if I go to the library and use their copy machine to copy a page out of a book, is the library at fault or is the person who made the copy? Aug 12 05:56:41 PuffTheMagic: when you give a copy to someone else definitely, and when you copy it to another medium, possibly Aug 12 05:56:42 brief summary from Stallman "Because I suck and couldn't do anything to fix this one problem once upon a time, I just think securing your system is absolutely retarded, infact I'll never support you securing your system, because I am on the side of insecurity" :) Aug 12 05:56:47 PuffTheMagic: Research usage for quoting is permitted under fair use, but there's a maximum limit on quantity Aug 12 05:57:11 psykoz: I've read the 'wheel' rant Aug 12 05:57:19 psykoz: actually, he did solve that one problem Aug 12 05:57:26 but he wouldn't be able to do it again Aug 12 05:57:32 he patched the kernel Aug 12 05:57:32 nod Aug 12 05:57:34 psykoz: I haven't been able to take him seriously since I saw it Aug 12 05:57:41 eternaleye, exactly ;) Aug 12 05:57:54 FOR THE PROLETARIAT Aug 12 05:57:58 eternaleye: I agree with you in practice to what we're talking about... Aug 12 05:58:04 But it's really based on the license. Aug 12 05:58:15 BSD licensing says: Do whatever you want. Aug 12 05:58:25 So under their license, you CAN give out a copy and keep it for yourself. Aug 12 05:58:43 heisenman: Yes, but we're discussing a situation (the palm files) where there is no license Aug 12 05:58:46 Puff: To make sure you understand this, let's start with ownership and move down to use. Aug 12 05:58:53 eternaleye: im just trying to figure out how a git repo is different than a library, if my copy is on the repo server and you can view the file, i cant help if you c-n-p Aug 12 05:59:10 Puff: Do you know who owns the git repository? Aug 12 05:59:20 I run the Unix side of the server room for the research branch of the largest company in the world... Satlman would *hate* me :) Aug 12 05:59:29 Once you do, do you know their TOS/licensing for that library and anything in it? Aug 12 05:59:30 Stallman, that is Aug 12 05:59:34 heisenman: And what I mean is that if he can copy the palm files, companies can rip off GPL code Aug 12 05:59:45 Stallman hates anyone Aug 12 06:00:03 He just wants his money from his sponsors ;) Aug 12 06:00:05 eternal: they often do. The legal system says: you may not violate the license terms of the owner of this content. Aug 12 06:00:07 PuffTheMagic: when you put your copy in the repo, are you going to remove it from your pre? Aug 12 06:00:15 if not, you've made a copy Aug 12 06:00:21 heisenman: can we restrict TOS to discussing services please? Aug 12 06:00:22 So they eventually fail in their wish to steal GPL'ed files. Aug 12 06:00:24 No, he loves his beard. Sadly, it isn't mutual. Aug 12 06:00:35 JackieRipper: lets say that I did for the purpose of this convo Aug 12 06:00:53 lol, im just goin through files, editing away, seeing what happens Aug 12 06:00:55 its great :) Aug 12 06:01:03 Palm would probably argue that by placing it in the repo, you're distributing it Aug 12 06:01:17 tmzt: Sorry. I don't wish to make a big deal of this, but if Puff truly doesn't understand... we could all be here all night. Aug 12 06:01:24 I'll be quiet now. Aug 12 06:01:54 JackieRipper: ehh its a library and people are just viewing the orig copy ;) Aug 12 06:02:10 I didn't mean the channel policies, I mean the term TOS Aug 12 06:02:19 1) not one at a time Aug 12 06:02:30 PuffTheMagic: Yes, but you've given access to people who normally wouldn't have access. That's illegal here. Aug 12 06:02:40 JackieRipper: multiple people can look at a book at once Aug 12 06:02:46 in a library Aug 12 06:02:49 and that is not illegal Aug 12 06:02:50 sure, but it's one book Aug 12 06:03:23 JackieRipper: i have to press/bend all rules Aug 12 06:03:25 PuffTheMagic: With computers, they can each take their own copy AND KEEP IT, even if you take down the repository Aug 12 06:03:25 when I copy the file to my harddrive to view it, it's still in the repo Aug 12 06:03:30 im not really trying t argue with you all Aug 12 06:03:35 palm is not following gpl Aug 12 06:03:46 so why should we care about their EULA Aug 12 06:03:50 palm is following gpl for the gpl code they used Aug 12 06:03:51 PuffTheMagic: The people who right laws have more practice at this than you. They are going to win. Aug 12 06:03:52 /* Copyright 2009 Palm, Inc. All rights reserved. */ Aug 12 06:03:56 *write Aug 12 06:04:07 Decimation: where is that? Aug 12 06:04:20 at the top of EVERY file im looking through Aug 12 06:04:24 Puff: in practice, Palm probably isn't going to squish you like a bug for violating their TOS. Aug 12 06:04:33 Unless you get annoying enough. Aug 12 06:04:33 the first one i looked in didnt have that Aug 12 06:04:41 heisenman: and what service are you refering to this time? Aug 12 06:04:51 every file i look at does. Aug 12 06:04:52 In theory, they COULD, because they have copyright and TOS to their code. Aug 12 06:05:24 heisenman: TOS is only relevent with services of some sort, not files Aug 12 06:05:28 heisenman: except their kernel, device drivers and most of their userland Aug 12 06:05:35 Like taxicab service, or phone service Aug 12 06:05:36 can I get a 10 words or less explanation of what this conversation is about? Aug 12 06:05:44 and/or how it started.. Aug 12 06:05:44 eternaleye: Thank you, I should have said licensing. Aug 12 06:05:46 ;) Aug 12 06:05:56 psykoz: PuffTheMagic wants to redistribute the Palm source files Aug 12 06:06:09 psykoz: "why don't we post whole files rather than diffs?" Aug 12 06:06:17 9 words Aug 12 06:06:56 answer: they are copyrighted, don't know why this is still going on. Aug 12 06:07:25 I haven't checked... palm published the source to all of their device drivers correct? Aug 12 06:07:34 Posting whole files wastes bandwidth and storage, why reinvent the wheel, the whole files are on Palm's website in various places/tools/etc. And on your phone! It would be redundant to repost them on some other site Aug 12 06:07:39 * psykoz grins Aug 12 06:07:42 device drivers are in the kernel Aug 12 06:07:48 JackieRipper: yeah the kernel code they posted seem complete Aug 12 06:08:00 cool Aug 12 06:08:07 psykoz: cause diffs are studid that why Aug 12 06:08:14 psykoz: The sources for WebOS's UI, service daemons, and apps aren't open-source Aug 12 06:08:30 psykoz: why not put the whole pre userland in the repo Aug 12 06:08:34 and use git like its meant Aug 12 06:08:38 thats where i am going Aug 12 06:08:45 They don't have to be open-source unless they used code from someone else who's license explicitly said that Palm has to opensource those applications etc.. Aug 12 06:08:56 so people getting openpandora's and iPhone 3gs's can use it :) Aug 12 06:09:09 PuffTheMagic: 1.) Git was meant for text, not binaries 2.) The own copyright on a lot of the stuff, so it's illegal in ways you can't begin to outsmart Aug 12 06:09:24 eternaleye: the palm userland is mostly text Aug 12 06:09:27 PuffTheMagic: can you give a quick summary of "like it's meant"? Aug 12 06:09:33 eternaleye: the mojo apps part is what im talking about Aug 12 06:09:44 PuffTheMagic: But the unix executables, Java jars etc aren't Aug 12 06:09:50 eternaleye: i dont mean them Aug 12 06:09:54 the plain text shit Aug 12 06:10:04 PuffTheMagic: The Java jars are what make the UI go Aug 12 06:10:16 JackieRipper: git is version control, it keep track of changes but still maintains whole files Aug 12 06:10:23 eternaleye: most of the Unix executables, aside from the jave, are gpl, though Aug 12 06:10:25 well I know we're using quilt and if we're trying to solve the problemw ith diff's does Quilt have the ability to store a backup of what lines were altered? That at least would seem to solve the patching+reverting issues on hand Aug 12 06:10:26 putting diffs in the git repo is like an oxymoron Aug 12 06:10:55 PuffTheMagic: not if that's what we're distributing Aug 12 06:10:58 And if quilt can't do that are there any diff capable apps that can? Aug 12 06:11:07 I think I get his point now Aug 12 06:11:11 JackieRipper: but a diff of a diff is useless Aug 12 06:11:18 so we could just use ftp Aug 12 06:11:24 git is not really designed for storing diffs as blobs Aug 12 06:11:24 git is overkill here Aug 12 06:11:31 tmzt: ++ Aug 12 06:11:37 PuffTheMagic: ftp lacks version control Aug 12 06:11:47 revision control++ Aug 12 06:11:49 svn/webdav doesn't Aug 12 06:11:52 JackieRipper: but we arent really using the version control part of git Aug 12 06:11:57 when storing difss Aug 12 06:11:59 diffs Aug 12 06:12:07 maybe the new format of semantic diff would be more interesting Aug 12 06:12:07 tmzt, git is just another variety of svn Aug 12 06:12:08 tmzt: but then it's still storing diffs of diffs under the hood Aug 12 06:12:09 we are using it for all the from scratch mojo apps and plugins and services Aug 12 06:12:33 PuffTheMagic: BECAUSE PALM DOESN"T OWN THE FROM SCRATCH APPS Aug 12 06:12:38 think of it as a set of instructions, but not ones that neccessarily required a unique original to develop Aug 12 06:12:40 eternaleye: I KNOW Aug 12 06:12:49 PuffTheMagic: further, I would say, considering it was written to version control the Linux kernel source, and everything else is gravy, difs if diffs is exactly* its intended use Aug 12 06:13:03 diffs of diffs Aug 12 06:13:10 PuffTheMagic: This entire conversation is pointless If you want to know why it's illegal, hire a copyright attorney. Aug 12 06:13:15 a diff of a diff is completly useless Aug 12 06:13:23 looking at a diff is hard enough for most people Aug 12 06:13:26 it so is not Aug 12 06:13:31 how are you gonna amke sense of a diff of a diff Aug 12 06:13:37 think of it as a set of instructions, but not ones that Aug 12 06:13:43 PuffTheMagic: No, it's useful if the diff is the end product. And they don't need to look at it, just feed it to patch. Aug 12 06:13:50 did not neccessarily required a unique original to develop Aug 12 06:13:51 it's not a diff of a diff... Aug 12 06:13:58 yeah it is Aug 12 06:14:07 if you change a diff, git creates a diff Aug 12 06:14:10 but even so... "what changed?" is easily answered by a diff Aug 12 06:14:33 a diff of a diff looks like ascii soup Aug 12 06:14:39 next, there's the ability to roll back changes, y'know, revisioning, which is completely missing from ftp Aug 12 06:14:55 think of it as a set of instructions, but not ones that did not neccessarily require a specific original to develop Aug 12 06:15:02 puffthemagic, show exmaple of diff of a diff that you have a hard time reading ? Aug 12 06:15:34 "wow, someone put out a new patch for mod x.... I wonder what they changed?" - a diff would tell me Aug 12 06:15:35 +-function test(a, b, c) Aug 12 06:15:41 psykoz: i have spend the last 8 years doing kernel dev work, i can read diffs in my sleep Aug 12 06:15:52 PuffTheMagic: what do you work with? Aug 12 06:16:13 but i bet most people cant follow a diff let alone a diff of a diff Aug 12 06:16:31 PuffTheMagic: git was designed to manage patches Aug 12 06:16:33 well most people have a hard time wiping their own asses Aug 12 06:16:35 so... Aug 12 06:16:37 JackieRipper: no it wasnt Aug 12 06:16:42 when has that been a valid argument for anything? Aug 12 06:16:43 the hell it wasn't Aug 12 06:16:51 it was designed to manage versions of files Aug 12 06:16:58 it creates diffs to accomplish that Aug 12 06:17:03 by managing patches Aug 12 06:17:04 yes Aug 12 06:17:14 but designed/intended are not the same thing Aug 12 06:17:35 diffs are nasty Aug 12 06:17:37 glad there are tools Aug 12 06:17:37 :P Aug 12 06:17:40 it was designed to manage patches, but intended to do versioning of files Aug 12 06:18:26 storing diffs in git is not efficient at all, may as well keep whole versions of each patch in a ftp Aug 12 06:18:34 it wastes the same amount of space Aug 12 06:18:56 Why would you store diffs in git when you can just store the source itself? Aug 12 06:21:20 zomg: cause we cant "store" palms files Aug 12 06:21:28 that is like the whole origin of this convo Aug 12 06:21:36 ahh Aug 12 06:21:49 ya makes sense in a way I guess Aug 12 06:22:00 SHA1's are derived from the content of blobs? Aug 12 06:22:05 (in git) Aug 12 06:27:06 tmzt: so to answer your question about what i do on the kernel, random shit, work on drivers, new cpu/IO schedulers. fix bugs... Aug 12 06:27:44 oh, cool Aug 12 06:27:56 i also maintain a patchset with a few other people.... since most people can seem to apply patches them selves Aug 12 06:28:04 just getting into to kernel development on the arm side Aug 12 06:28:06 and these are real linux users Aug 12 06:28:16 that cant even be botherd with patches Aug 12 06:28:36 and we are expection grandma pre user to use patches Aug 12 06:28:36 hahaha Aug 12 06:28:48 s/expection/expecting Aug 12 06:29:05 well, I've been working for msm for the last year and pxa a while before that, but still don't feel I've gotten very deep into it Aug 12 06:29:15 PuffTheMagic: you keep developing; I'll handle the n00bs Aug 12 06:29:21 :) Aug 12 06:40:11 git is orthogonal to this dicussion about patches. Aug 12 06:40:28 we used git for the modifications repo simply cause we were already using git for everything else. Aug 12 06:40:44 you could just as easily use svn or bzr or darcs or webdav or ftp. doesn't matter. Aug 12 06:40:59 we could even email the patches around like the old days. Aug 12 06:41:19 1) we have to use patches, cause the source files are palm proprietary code Aug 12 06:41:51 2) we root the patches at /, so that you don't need to *also* specify the instructions on how to apply them (one set of instructions works for *all* patches) Aug 12 06:42:24 * acydlord places a vote for BBS Aug 12 06:42:25 3) the patches are not the end product, they are an interchange format. the end product which allows Aunt Minnie to patch palm apps is not created yet, but when it is, it will use these patches under the hood. Aug 12 06:44:13 4) the way to handle new users in the channel is to point them to the wiki page which explains what to do. if they ask basic questions that google can answer, then just politely tell them to search google. if they find holes in the instructions, then thank them and require *them* to update the instructions with the fixes you give them (don't give the second fix until they have documented the first) Aug 12 06:44:13 poor aunt minnie, no pre hacking yet... Aug 12 06:44:27 mimmzie.. it was mimmzie. Aug 12 06:45:10 Rick_home> that Aunt Mimzzy could use. Aug 12 06:45:35 5) concentrate on the people to take the time to learn how to do things. they are the people who will take the load of the lead developers. you never know up front which of the new users will end up being those people, but you get a good idea from whether they go and update the wiki page as you asked or not. Aug 12 06:46:12 i just got done bash scripting all the mods and patches I have applied to my pre Aug 12 06:46:22 hopefully they dont change the code too much in the next release Aug 12 06:46:50 s/people to take/people who take/ Aug 12 06:46:50 rwhitby meant: 5) concentrate on the people who take the time to learn how to do things. they are the people who will take the load of the lead developers. you never know up front which of the new users will end up being those people, but you get a good idea from whet... Aug 12 06:48:34 poop pee poop Aug 12 06:48:41 s/pee/poop Aug 12 06:48:48 s/pee/poop/ Aug 12 06:48:50 Decimation meant: s/poop/poop Aug 12 06:49:06 poop poop pee poop Aug 12 06:49:15 s/poop pee/poop poop/ Aug 12 06:49:16 Decimation meant: poop poop poop poop Aug 12 06:49:20 nice, i figured it out Aug 12 06:49:39 6) ignore the users who do childish things in channel, or use profane language. they're usually the trouble-makers ;-) Aug 12 06:49:41 s/poop Aug 12 06:50:51 rwhitby: lol, i was just trying to figure out how to spelling correcter works, give me a break :P Aug 12 06:51:36 "but you get a good idea from whether they go and update the wiki page as you asked or not." psht. i made a wiki page for you. Aug 12 06:51:53 then ya just turn around and call me a trouble-maker... ugh, the nerve rwhitby, the nerve :) Aug 12 06:53:27 Decimation: so, what's the next patch you're going to create for us? Aug 12 06:53:42 im trying to get another icon on the quicklauncher Aug 12 06:54:01 gosh, i have to get used to typing your name in front of my message Aug 12 06:54:10 rwhitby: im trying to get another icon on the quicklauncher Aug 12 06:56:13 you know, i'm really liking how my launcher looks with so many more icons on each page.. it seems compact...a lot of information in one spot, but its neat, so it looks good. Aug 12 07:01:01 Decimation: why did your patch have to include the add/delete pages patch? would they not apply independently with context? Aug 12 07:01:29 rwhitby: i already had it in my file and was too lazy to take it out if ya wanna know the truth :P Aug 12 07:02:20 Decimation: it would be great if you could regenerate the patch without it. then people can choose whether to apply one or the other or both. it doesn't seem like there are overlaps between them. Aug 12 07:03:13 rwhitby: i need to sleep. ill do it tomorrow :) Aug 12 07:03:16 goodnightt. Aug 12 07:03:24 Decimation: thx. goodnight. Aug 12 07:04:03 7) when people say "I'll do it tomorrow" double check whether they did. those that did are the people you should concentrate on. Aug 12 07:04:29 7el? Aug 12 07:04:59 8) if you want to be cool, make up a bunch of rules throughout the conversation :P Aug 12 07:05:15 ugh, god damn smileys Aug 12 07:08:38 use ascii Aug 12 07:08:45 uh, 9) Aug 12 07:38:48 grr, how do I unapply a patch in quilt that I want unapplied but it thinks it hasn't applied? Aug 12 08:08:21 hmagoo: why does it think it hasn't applied it? note that you can use patch to apply and unapply (-R) the patch files - make sure you're in the / dir when you do it. Aug 12 08:09:51 rwhitby, because of using quilt before/after upgrades and trying to manage them, got a little messy Aug 12 08:10:23 but.. reverted back to original palm file that was patched, going to see if that helped so I don't have to unapply the patch anyways Aug 12 08:10:34 isn't it just quilt pop -a before upgrade, and then quilt push for each patch after the upgrade? Aug 12 08:11:11 long story Aug 12 08:13:05 ok, in that case patch and patch -R are the ways to do it Aug 12 08:13:11 thank you Aug 12 08:13:17 get everything back to original state, Aug 12 08:13:49 then start using quilt again from scratch - remove the /.pc directory and /opt/src/patches/* files if necessary. Aug 12 08:17:55 gotcha Aug 12 08:22:56 is this channel for palm pre devs? Aug 12 08:24:10 I think #webos is Aug 12 08:32:35 exit Aug 12 10:08:26 preware.org feed not being updated? specifically, i note that terminal has had lots of changes but is still at 0.1.6. Aug 12 10:40:55 hey guys Aug 12 10:41:01 quick question Aug 12 10:41:57 im trying to save my custom wallpaper over to the /media/internal/wallpapers directory but when i do and restart LunaSysMgr i still cannot see my wallpaper Aug 12 11:06:59 im starting to miss my android phone Aug 12 11:07:11 its just so much more snappy than the pre Aug 12 11:07:25 :( Aug 12 11:08:15 and that combined with battery life that last more than8 hours Aug 12 11:17:35 oh? Aug 12 11:18:18 I wonder if you could shut omap3 off Aug 12 11:18:28 (except wake) Aug 12 11:19:47 if the rom bootloader was fast enough it could either reboot or restore a running system without the normal low power/power save mode Aug 12 11:20:17 except that the ram is likely to require the same power no matter if the cpu was off (if it supports while (1) { Aug 12 11:20:21 read(fd, &ev, sizeof(struct input_event)); Aug 12 11:20:22 }; self refresh Aug 12 11:20:24 sorry Aug 12 11:20:26 if ((ev.type == EV_KEY) & (ev.value == 0)) return ev.code; Aug 12 11:20:59 of course this would require support in the msm chip, which it may not have Aug 12 11:22:33 blau-mikeDg: hold on, your ip says you're on your android phone Aug 12 11:26:56 i still have both lines Aug 12 11:26:59 i use my pre as my primary tho Aug 12 11:27:39 i suspect theres some stupid constant synching going on Aug 12 11:27:49 i dont need my contacts synced every 10 minutes Aug 12 11:28:24 if i had an extra pre id do some tinkering with removing shit until i get decent battery life Aug 12 11:28:37 airplane mode works fine, and dataless mode is acceptable Aug 12 11:28:54 which os (interface) are you liking better? Aug 12 11:28:57 they should give u an option Aug 12 11:29:05 automatic syncs or manual syncs Aug 12 11:29:06 etc Aug 12 11:29:17 run tcpdump Aug 12 11:29:40 tmzt: i like webos look and feel and navigation better Aug 12 11:29:52 aside from the lack of a way to change focus without the touchscreen Aug 12 11:30:06 and the web browser stomps on androids Aug 12 11:30:13 maybe navi could do that Aug 12 11:30:38 for the most part enter works to switch between text boxes Aug 12 11:30:42 it would be so great if luna was open, even if webos (mojo) was still closed Aug 12 11:30:42 which is a little helpful Aug 12 11:31:03 but android is getting such great and snappy apps Aug 12 11:31:09 well, text boxes are in the open webkit stuff I think Aug 12 11:31:10 im in love with the amazon app Aug 12 11:31:30 and google voice integration Aug 12 11:31:32 yeah, but android needs apps, I would say, if designed properly, the Pre doesn't Aug 12 11:31:40 yeah Aug 12 11:32:15 i dislike the menu area on the pre Aug 12 11:32:24 its too much of a pain to hit those tiny hitboxes to open the menu Aug 12 11:32:59 why did I have to remove my getkey() function? Aug 12 11:34:55 cause of the beef Aug 12 11:35:36 i made that up, no idea whta i meant Aug 12 11:35:46 hey, you can always use a mod by list length for moving forward or backwards in the list? Aug 12 11:36:07 not sure what you mean Aug 12 11:36:26 like if I have a list of three elements and I want the arrow keys to move through them Aug 12 11:36:45 * blau-mikeDg back to working on his android project Aug 12 11:36:54 need to get some of these bugs out then optomize for speed Aug 12 11:37:02 then figure out a use for it Aug 12 11:39:06 blau-mikeDg: i agree with you Aug 12 11:39:16 i try to hit the menu and constantly get the wrong menu Aug 12 11:39:43 i like my fix a little for it, wish theyd incorporate it so i dont have to redo it every new version Aug 12 11:39:48 or everytime i restore myd evice Aug 12 11:40:10 what was your fix? Aug 12 11:41:02 you can slide your finger down from the top of the screen Aug 12 11:41:33 through the menus to activate rather than tap to hit Aug 12 11:44:00 ah, reading from the framebuffer, not the event device ;) Aug 12 11:44:09 copy/paste from a function, oops Aug 12 11:44:23 my tweak is on the wiki somewhere Aug 12 11:45:06 * blau-mikeDg wants to toy with loading js from the web for pre apps Aug 12 11:45:21 anyone tried it yet? Aug 12 11:45:27 shouldn't that work if the securit is right? Aug 12 11:45:32 like Aug 12 11:45:39 no idea Aug 12 11:45:43 createNode("script"); Aug 12 11:45:54 .setAttribute("src", "url"); Aug 12 11:46:01 i was surprised that i can pull js and views for scenes from random locations on the device Aug 12 11:46:11 oh Aug 12 11:46:13 anywhere? Aug 12 11:46:17 blau-mikeDg: good idea for the fix Aug 12 11:46:20 webkit is running as root Aug 12 11:46:34 like my quickcut app, uses the source code views and images from the actual note app for the create new note app Aug 12 11:46:36 shortcut Aug 12 11:46:41 and that breaks destinals key thing Aug 12 11:46:55 key thing? Aug 12 11:47:11 the terminal security Aug 12 11:48:51 Pre is hvga? Aug 12 11:52:43 fuck Aug 12 11:52:52 i need a reasonable way to cache shit in java Aug 12 11:52:58 without raping memory Aug 12 11:53:30 * blau-mikeDg goes to toy with weak references Aug 12 11:58:46 fckin hangover Aug 12 11:58:47 :S Aug 12 12:01:52 reflection Aug 12 12:05:19 fucking fedex Aug 12 12:05:24 ? Aug 12 12:05:42 i called yesterday to have them hold my Ion phone since noone will be home to recieve it Aug 12 12:06:03 sigh Aug 12 12:06:29 hmm the framework files that are in /opt/PalmSDK/ are those the ones the emulator uses or are those burried somewhere else? I want to add some alterations to the depot.js and try to find out why my depot calls are not working Aug 12 12:06:44 but that would require altering the depot.js file and having the sdk see the modified version Aug 12 12:06:58 lon phone? Aug 12 12:07:06 android phone Aug 12 12:07:09 ah Aug 12 12:07:10 broke :( Aug 12 12:10:18 so any ideas how to modify the depot.js in the emulator? Aug 12 12:10:39 thats probbaly it Aug 12 12:10:52 shove a fewconsole.logs in there Aug 12 12:11:05 while ssh'd into sdk Aug 12 12:11:06 ./usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.14/javascripts/depot.js Aug 12 12:22:44 vi depot.js Aug 12 12:31:53 ya Aug 12 12:34:14 odd modifying that file and then rebooting the emulator did nothing Aug 12 12:34:45 i added Mojo.Log.error statements that started with JC but they are not in the log :( Aug 12 12:34:46 delete it Aug 12 12:34:57 why delete it? Aug 12 12:35:02 jcrawford: the files the emulator uses are in the virtualbox disk image, not /opt/PalmSDK Aug 12 12:35:02 mojo.log.error requires a certain loglevel i thought Aug 12 12:35:11 the depot.js might not have it Aug 12 12:35:21 or maybe what rwhitby said Aug 12 12:35:24 rwhitby: i am altering /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/ etc..' Aug 12 12:35:30 not the /opt/PalmSDK/ Aug 12 12:35:44 blau-mikeDg: it has it because Palm uses it in that class file Aug 12 12:36:17 dreadchicken: preware.org feed is updated whenever the authors decide to make a new release. that hasn't happened for Terminal since 0.1.6 Aug 12 12:37:35 as soon as the Terminal authors bump the version number in the preware Terminal app Makefile, the autobuilder will have the ipk in the feed within 15 minutes. Aug 12 12:41:50 wtf is going on here? Aug 12 12:41:51 http://webos.pastebin.com/m79c910a5 Aug 12 12:42:18 that is my output log, some reason the this.depot.add() is not saving state, nor is it calling my success or failure callbacks Aug 12 12:53:27 a better log: http://webos.pastebin.com/m6b58a499 Aug 12 12:53:39 mot sure why the this.depot.add is not calling my callback functions Aug 12 12:54:13 http://pastie.org/581255 Aug 12 12:54:23 that is the code for the setFirstUseComplete method Aug 12 13:07:09 * FreeTim3 is amazed at the folks who leave the irc channel after just two minutes of no response... patience, patience... Aug 12 13:08:41 described in depth: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1191 Aug 12 13:10:09 whats good Aug 12 13:10:34 hello oc80z Aug 12 13:12:00 Hi Joe. Why not set firstUseAssistant to True after setup, that is, not during cleanup ? - although I agree with you technically it should work from cleanup, perhaps this is one workaround. Aug 12 13:12:38 FreeTim: because I want to make sure the user has entered the setup data etc. Aug 12 13:13:01 I mean this is just a small sample app but in a "real" app, you would do it when the setup window was closed Aug 12 13:13:20 such as an app like a Twitter app, you need to enter your user/pass before you can do anything with the app Aug 12 13:13:28 if it does it on setup it is set before you set anything... Aug 12 13:13:41 technically it is set before you set anything in cleanup too because you never set anything :) Aug 12 13:13:46 I agree with you, and I hope palm Developer responds to you. As workaround see if you can set it somewhere earlier (when user clicks Save?) Aug 12 13:13:48 but it will be moved once I get it working Aug 12 13:14:15 yea I will add a save button and have that do the depot thing and also push a new scene Aug 12 13:14:21 maybe it just does not like the cleanup method :D Aug 12 13:14:37 That's what I'm postulating exactly Aug 12 13:15:44 does anyone know Vladamir's nick on here... I need to email to him Aug 12 13:23:39 lmorchard|away: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/epyon22/?action=view¤t=DSC00532.jpg Aug 12 13:23:53 lmorchard|away: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v227/epyon22/?action=view¤t=DSC00531.jpg Aug 12 13:24:17 lmorchard|away: What size is that? Aug 12 13:25:22 And how does it feel in your hand? Awkward? Aug 12 13:25:41 er Aug 12 13:25:54 Oops. Meant to ask that to epyon22 Aug 12 13:26:25 its the 2600 extended battery Aug 12 13:26:30 from seidio Aug 12 13:26:37 not that akward Aug 12 13:26:49 definatly alot bigger than the standard cover though Aug 12 13:27:24 I keep hoping that someone will come out with a battery that IS the back cover, thus have much more volume for cell storage. Aug 12 14:34:28 osas * r10554 optware/trunk/make/asterisk16.mk - asterisk16: 1.6.0.10 -> 1.6.0.13 Aug 12 15:15:35 blau-mikeDg: so you're saying that any app can load js from anywhere on the device? Aug 12 15:16:20 how about the sqlite3 databases? Aug 12 15:16:58 dest: wow Aug 12 15:17:02 i just came back Aug 12 15:17:05 was actually working :) Aug 12 15:17:11 heh Aug 12 15:17:11 perfect timing Aug 12 15:17:16 destinal: yeah i think you can source a js file anywhere Aug 12 15:17:19 lemme paste you my sources.json Aug 12 15:17:24 or at least a sample Aug 12 15:17:57 I think probably databases are the way to go for restricting info to one app Aug 12 15:17:59 destinal: what were you saying before on the confirmation daemon thingy... something about waiting for something... Aug 12 15:18:40 i dont think you can restrict anything on the pre in a database, i didnt see anything about password protection Aug 12 15:19:10 PuffTheMagic: talking about walls between mojo apps Aug 12 15:19:11 but there must be a way Aug 12 15:19:13 well there isnt a way to reference a database Aug 12 15:19:25 what can one app keep another from accessing, and it sounds like sqlite3 db's is the answer Aug 12 15:19:27 like say i want database file xyz Aug 12 15:19:44 { Aug 12 15:19:45 "source": "\/usr\/palm\/applications\/com.palm.app.notes\/app\/controllers\/note-assistant.js", Aug 12 15:19:45 "scenes": "note" Aug 12 15:19:45 }, Aug 12 15:19:45 sorry Aug 12 15:19:54 meant to clean that up to 2 lines before pasting Aug 12 15:20:00 PuffTheMagic: did u have a look at the latest HEAD? Aug 12 15:20:10 Zuchmir2: nope... whats new Aug 12 15:21:14 think i fixed the function in the JS Aug 12 15:21:26 not sure if now it's correct Aug 12 15:22:54 destinal: i've uploaded the mod to auto-scroll to bottom when user presses key (calling mojo) Aug 12 15:23:33 Zuchmir2: this.termplugin.keyStatesParentObj = this; Aug 12 15:23:35 whats taht about Aug 12 15:24:02 you need to make a addKeyStateListener(callback) function in termplugin Aug 12 15:24:18 which you call in the plugin when there is a event Aug 12 15:24:39 the callback function need to be passed the object with the keystates in it Aug 12 15:24:41 that gives me a handle to the parent, so i can call obj.keyStatesChanged(gesture, red, sym, shift) Aug 12 15:24:52 it has a fixed callback name Aug 12 15:25:04 that is not a great way to do it Aug 12 15:25:35 it may not be great, but if it works in phase 1, we can see hpw to tweak it for phase 2 Aug 12 15:25:36 the static part that is Aug 12 15:26:53 i just dont get how that line is even valid Aug 12 15:27:28 i suppose it can be done as this.termplugin.setKeyStatesObj(this, "keyStatesChanged"); but not sure how to do it as this.keyStatesChanged Aug 12 15:27:44 why are you exposing the object Aug 12 15:27:49 because the plugin stores that value Aug 12 15:27:52 right Aug 12 15:27:57 but why expose teh object Aug 12 15:28:03 like you are doing Aug 12 15:28:07 i dont see how that is useful Aug 12 15:28:27 because i have to have an object to call with... Aug 12 15:28:45 try to study the api.c to see how the callback happens Aug 12 15:29:30 the plugin should be calling a callback function in the JS and passing the js function the object Aug 12 15:29:36 the object it self should not be exposed Aug 12 15:29:38 i've successfully done called scroller.mojo.revealBottom() with this technique Aug 12 15:29:46 cause you still need a way to tell the js to when to read the object Aug 12 15:30:13 please explain Aug 12 15:30:50 you see how in the js, every widget has a addEventListener function Aug 12 15:31:02 you tell it why type of event and the callback to call when the event happens Aug 12 15:31:07 if need be, i can call it as this.keyStatesChanged(this, gesture, red, sym, shift) Aug 12 15:32:32 ... that's because the OS has to know you want the event, this plugin knows you want the event, when it has an "this" and there exists a function "keyStatesChanged" Aug 12 15:33:16 well then its like 80% there Aug 12 15:33:21 ... ie if(this.keyStatesChanged) { this.keyStatesChanged(gesture, red, sym, shift); } Aug 12 15:33:41 anyone please: http://webos.pastebin.com/m40dd057c Aug 12 15:33:44 hey hey Aug 12 15:34:02 so now, someone has to fill in the SessionAssistant.prototype.keyStatesChanged with code to do something usefull Aug 12 15:34:18 Zuchmir2: this.termplugin.addKeyStateListener(this.onKeyStatesChanged.bind(this)); Aug 12 15:34:42 then in the plugin you send the event to all registered event listener Aug 12 15:34:57 and there should be a removeKeyStateListener function also Aug 12 15:35:02 not sure how to do that in the C Aug 12 15:35:27 ok we can worry about that latter Aug 12 15:35:30 i get what you did now Aug 12 15:35:35 well this.termplugin.scroller = 0; would clear it Aug 12 15:35:52 Zuchmir2: is there a way disable the yellowbox now? Aug 12 15:36:16 yes, by uncommenting the #define in the common.h Aug 12 15:36:32 a dynamic way? Aug 12 15:36:56 termplugin.setShowKeyStates(true/false); Aug 12 15:37:01 ... //#define USE_MOJO_FOR_KEYSTATE Aug 12 15:37:46 nope, but i guess it can hinge on if(this.keyStatesChanged) { turn off yellow stuff } Aug 12 15:38:03 instead of having it in an #ifdef Aug 12 15:38:27 but that would break it for now, as the JS now has the this setup already Aug 12 15:38:57 as such the yellow will alway be off even though the new code has not been done yet Aug 12 15:39:49 thats not what i am asking Aug 12 15:40:23 you cant add a " if (showKeyStates) " block around the code that shows the keystates Aug 12 15:40:40 and then let the mojo set the value of showKeyStates Aug 12 15:40:44 it could default to true for now Aug 12 15:41:16 but then it would allow people who want to play with the keystates on the mojo side to disable it with out rebuilding the plugin Aug 12 15:41:22 ok, u nean expose another variable to the JS Aug 12 15:41:32 well a function Aug 12 15:41:43 like this.terminal.setTermHeight() Aug 12 15:41:59 or the setFont Aug 12 15:42:02 or setColors Aug 12 15:42:05 functions Aug 12 15:42:17 this.terminal.showKeyStates = true|false Aug 12 15:42:32 its bad practice to expose the actual variable Aug 12 15:42:38 either way is fairly simple Aug 12 15:42:54 well if you expose the variable then people can pass it bad data and crash things Aug 12 15:43:03 if you expose a function you can validate the input Aug 12 15:43:04 umm all objects expose .height .width etc Aug 12 15:43:10 same here Aug 12 15:43:29 they don't touch the variable directly, it's controlled by the plugin Aug 12 15:43:38 .height and .width "should" be private Aug 12 15:43:56 it simply "looks" like it's being set Aug 12 15:43:58 that was bad design by palm Aug 12 15:44:37 they are private, and exposed with code that handles/validates variables Aug 12 15:45:28 the API allows for get/set property, and then the C gets told which variable the JS wants to get/set, and what's the value Aug 12 15:46:12 ... have a look at the function Object_SetProperty() to see that all that get's validated (in theory) Aug 12 15:46:30 well its also a consistency thing... setFont setColors setTermHeight are all functions Aug 12 15:46:44 setShowKeyStates should follow that pattern, imo Aug 12 15:46:49 but if it works it works Aug 12 15:46:50 w/e Aug 12 15:47:30 the reason those are functions, is because at the time they were done, didn't know how to set/get properties Aug 12 15:47:54 ... also, some of them take 2 or more params Aug 12 15:48:12 making it less ideal for simple assignment Aug 12 15:49:14 but yes, setTermHeight(x) could be termHeight = x Aug 12 15:57:18 ... ok, just exposed showKeyStates, so you can now set this.terminal.showKeyStates = true | false Aug 12 15:58:40 is it defaulted to true? Aug 12 15:58:52 yes Aug 12 15:59:06 showKeyStates(true) Aug 12 16:01:55 anyone that can help with this code? Aug 12 16:02:01 http://webos.pastebin.com/m40dd057c Aug 12 16:02:35 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/198051-screen-keyboard-bugs-functionality-enhancements.html Aug 12 16:03:25 lucn bbl Aug 12 16:03:28 lunch* Aug 12 16:04:19 egaudet: did u u/l the code for that kbd? Aug 12 16:05:27 Does anyone know where the wifi settings are stored internally? It seems like the only way to get it to forget a network association is to connect to that network first. Aug 12 16:44:08 Zuchmir2, yes in modifications/frameworks Aug 12 16:46:53 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/On_Screen_Keyboard ? Aug 12 17:08:40 interesting, I hadn't considered that palm gets the info on which apps you use and how long, so they'll see metrics on the levels of homebrew adoption Aug 12 17:09:03 wonder how many combined hours of usage the terminal app has racked up around the world. :) Aug 12 17:09:05 I will update the wiki tonight Aug 12 17:09:34 egaudet_work: nice work on the osk btw Aug 12 17:11:43 thanks, glad to be able to contribute Aug 12 17:12:59 mornin guys Aug 12 17:13:09 well, actually, its the afternoon now, but meh :P Aug 12 17:13:28 Decimation: it's still morning here, so you're fine Aug 12 17:13:44 morning Aug 12 17:13:50 so how have you guys managed with the launcher? Aug 12 17:14:07 remove the text? shrink the icon height? Aug 12 17:14:37 its morning here still too ;) Aug 12 17:16:50 hi all, I'm trying to setup optware in the emulator (before doing it on my phone just to get familiar with it) and the install script never spawned the user creation function, any ideas? Aug 12 17:17:03 egaudet_work: I've still been looking for the elusive quicklauncher icon size config, probably hard-coded but maybe it could still be modified Aug 12 17:17:20 digi: not sure you can do that Aug 12 17:17:27 the emulator is a different architecture Aug 12 17:17:33 maybe someone will correct me tho Aug 12 17:17:45 blau-mikeDg: the script works on both Aug 12 17:18:17 digilink: I think it may skip the user creation on the emulator, since it ships with root ssh login Aug 12 17:18:27 oh ok Aug 12 17:18:29 destinal, I believe it might be hard-coded since stopping LunaSysMgr still shows the quicklaunch although the pre is not functional Aug 12 17:18:31 hmm ok Aug 12 17:19:08 egaudet_work: well stopping LunaSysMgr shows the whole screen, that's just the frame buffer not being wiped Aug 12 17:20:07 Ahh yes my mistake. You have the code for the launcher right? Aug 12 17:20:10 but I do think the quicklaunch may be all defined in code in LunaSysMgr since you can remove /usr/lib/palm and everything else stops working but quicklaunch dock is fine Aug 12 17:20:31 Have you attempted to track down where in the launcher it allows user to drag icon (eventually down to quicklaunch?) Aug 12 17:21:20 no, though that code could be in luna as well rather than the pseudo-app Aug 12 17:21:29 WOW I just got reason to get excited... just saw all the apps available and Asterisk is one of them!!!! Also like the package manager, very similar to apt-get, my favorite!!!! Aug 12 17:21:48 <--- just got my pre yesterday Aug 12 17:23:12 Yea you are probably right Aug 12 17:23:15 digilink: yeah, although just running a pbx on your phone doesn't have a lot of value by itself.. if pulseaudio or alsa channels worked and we added a client mojo app to make calls it would also make it a softphone Aug 12 17:23:56 true, but I can add SIP peers to it and IAX to my box back home Aug 12 17:24:30 will be handy when I have no internet connectivity besides my phone :) Aug 12 17:24:45 oh I see Aug 12 17:24:57 so then connect a sip phone to it over wifi or something Aug 12 17:25:07 yep exactly :) Aug 12 17:25:48 for example I could use x-lite on my macbook and connect it via wifi to the phone Aug 12 17:25:50 you'll have to let me know how voip codecs work over EVDO Aug 12 17:26:05 definitely.... this kicks butt!!!! Aug 12 17:26:41 Ill probably end up having to use GSM or speex, ulaw may be questionable Aug 12 17:26:48 we'll see Aug 12 17:27:04 digilink: yeah, I don't think of my pre as a phone but as a 600 mhz arm linux box that happens to run phone software. :) Aug 12 17:27:22 LOL yea good way to look at it Aug 12 17:27:49 I was really on the fence about getting one, but once Palm gave their blessing and giving us the SDK it was a no brainer for me Aug 12 17:28:34 digilink: well they still haven't made a binary sdk, but we've gotten terminal and custom system services working without any official support there Aug 12 17:29:13 thats awesome, Ive still got a bit of reading to do, I am totally blown away with what the community has done with this phone thus far Aug 12 17:29:54 I just hope Palm decides to keep access as open as it is now, this platform has massive potential Aug 12 17:35:20 rwhitby: i changed the patch name, along with removed the launcher pages from it. Aug 12 17:36:00 i need a name for my android app Aug 12 17:36:16 its a talking web browser and provides some universal search Aug 12 17:36:28 Gabby Aug 12 17:39:01 can anyone check to see if i pushed changes to git for patch correctly? Aug 12 17:39:11 where did you push them ? Aug 12 17:39:33 modifications/luna/more-icons-per-row Aug 12 17:39:40 and no, i just checked the site, i didnt :/ Aug 12 17:39:43 ugh, what am i doing wrong. Aug 12 17:40:00 git push origin ? Aug 12 17:40:05 HAH OK i see my error with the depot Aug 12 17:40:12 now to figure out a way around it :) Aug 12 17:40:18 i need to give rwhitby my ssh keys Aug 12 17:40:58 basically what is happening is this, when the app is opened it creates the depot object which opens the db and then calls a callback. However the app is not waiting for that callback to be completed so this.firstUseComplete is not set to true just yet Aug 12 17:41:12 guess this is a logic issue I need some assistance for :D anyone up for it? Aug 12 17:45:44 bpadalino: yeah, i gave him mine yesterday Aug 12 17:45:49 but it denied me permission. Aug 12 17:46:45 jcrawford, link me to the code again? Aug 12 17:47:00 http://webos.pastebin.com/m40dd057c Aug 12 17:47:27 egaudet_work: the issue is in the app controller, I am doing if( this.depot.isFirstUseComplete() !== true) Aug 12 17:47:50 the issue is that when that if is run the depot has not finished setting up yet so in the depot class this.isFirstUseComplete = undefined Aug 12 17:47:59 because it does not wait for the depot callbacks to complete Aug 12 17:48:56 any one here that can push the changes to git for me Aug 12 17:49:15 Could you just add in a depont_done variable that you loop on after calling setFirstUseComplete Aug 12 17:49:25 jcrawford: http://www.startuphire.com/search/details.php?job=58435 Aug 12 17:49:48 along with a timeout, and have both callbacks set it Aug 12 17:50:07 so i was thinking about this whole quilt usage thing Aug 12 17:50:32 why not track the pre's root with git, but keep the .git directory on media-internal Aug 12 17:50:36 in th 7gig section Aug 12 17:51:36 genius puff Aug 12 17:52:07 nebula: not my ballgame more of a sys admin role than developer :) Aug 12 17:52:12 brb Aug 12 17:52:49 PuffTheMagic, this would require everyone to start with a stock pre Aug 12 17:53:00 no it wouldnt Aug 12 17:53:25 how not? Aug 12 17:53:48 you can start using git to track changes no matter what the state of the pre Aug 12 17:54:24 you can't have different pres tracking at different states Aug 12 17:54:33 and expect a global patch to succeed Aug 12 17:56:32 Puff: do you have permissions to push changes to git Aug 12 17:57:37 egaudet_work: people with different quilt series files is not different Aug 12 17:57:48 if person has setup A and applys a patch it might fail Aug 12 18:02:44 PuffTheMagic, so what problem does maintaing / in git solve? Aug 12 18:02:50 err tracking / Aug 12 18:07:08 i guess if you just apply patches it might not be any better, if if you are editing code and want to track changes git does a better job since it "auto tracks" changes to files it already knows about Aug 12 18:07:17 no forgetting to use quilt edit Aug 12 18:07:25 to make the changes tracked Aug 12 18:10:25 ahhh ok, that does sound good Aug 12 18:11:36 but the fact that we are touching palm files is gonna make life a pain period Aug 12 18:12:01 i think we should try and figure out how to make standalone apps that can override default app behavior somehow Aug 12 18:12:49 and on a side note... has anyone thought of making a cpufreq app Aug 12 18:13:03 and or adding the proc speed to the main header Aug 12 18:13:28 If we could find a way to bring in js after/during framework initialize we could Aug 12 18:13:36 howdy fellas Aug 12 18:13:48 and has anyone looked into putting "stuff" on the desktop of the palm Aug 12 18:13:53 like a nice larger clock Aug 12 18:13:55 what's the deal with this location reporting "featuring" reporting location back to palm? Aug 12 18:14:53 http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/ Aug 12 18:14:58 pretty nice! Aug 12 18:16:41 trapster is coming to palm pre Aug 12 18:16:42 yey Aug 12 18:16:42 :D Aug 12 18:16:45 egaudet_work: what if we make a patch to the main mojo file Aug 12 18:16:49 that allows something like that Aug 12 18:16:52 I was thinking about this. does this mean if you're accused of committing a crime, law enforcement / prosecution can obtain records of everywhere you were on the day of a crime? Aug 12 18:17:06 hmm Aug 12 18:17:22 that would suck Aug 12 18:17:38 guess if im going to commit a crime, leave my phone at home Aug 12 18:17:44 I don't know who brings in/calls the palmInitFramework, but if it is in a file we can patch, then we should definitely do that. And then instead of "patching" palm files we could add our own custom ones Aug 12 18:17:45 I WAS HOME ALL DAY OFFICER Aug 12 18:18:05 If it's as simple as mojo.js that would be amazing, but I fear it might even be done in LunaSysMgr Aug 12 18:18:41 i think it might be mojo.js Aug 12 18:18:41 idk Aug 12 18:18:44 i can look Aug 12 18:19:07 I don't have access to the files at work (EVDO is almost non-existent, can't ssh to pre) Aug 12 18:19:20 * PuffTheMagic looking at mojo.js Aug 12 18:19:55 when you get a chance run LunaSysMgr on the foreground and you can see the stdout print of bringing in the palmInitFramework javascripts in builtins/ directory Aug 12 18:21:56 egaudet_work: i guess I could but there has to be a better way :) Aug 12 18:23:55 Hmm, really hoping there's a good explanation for the location and application usage reporting back to palm Aug 12 18:26:37 is no one concerned about the idea of webos uploading location and other info to palm? Aug 12 18:26:45 meh Aug 12 18:26:46 hah, oh there we go Aug 12 18:26:49 jcrawford, are you calling the depot at application close time? Aug 12 18:26:52 egaudet_work: looks like framework.js might be usefull ;) Aug 12 18:27:02 lets keep on topic, location privacy #webos ;) Aug 12 18:27:08 hah okay Aug 12 18:27:10 egaudet_work: this is how it is working currently Aug 12 18:27:11 np Aug 12 18:27:16 what dir is that in PuffTheMagic Aug 12 18:27:17 It's pretty much on topic for internals Aug 12 18:27:18 maybe mv /var/log/rdxd/pending /var/log/rdxd/pending-;touch /var/log/rdxd/pending would block that logging Aug 12 18:27:25 okay guys, im leaving for a while, but i will stay in IRC Aug 12 18:27:25 since it's a system demon sending it Aug 12 18:27:29 well im looking in the sdk Aug 12 18:27:31 egaudet_work: want to discuss this in #webos? Aug 12 18:27:33 but it has to be on the pre Aug 12 18:27:40 /opt/PalmSDK/0.1/share/framework/javascripts/framework.js Aug 12 18:27:53 if anyone finds anything reguarding 6 icons on the launcher, let me know :) Aug 12 18:28:21 on the pre it's /usr/palm/frameworks/ Aug 12 18:28:46 I don't know but i think that file (on emulator) might be analogous to the large palmInitFramework191_15.js file? Aug 12 18:31:02 Mojo.loadScript = function(path) { Aug 12 18:31:02 Mojo._injectScript(path); Aug 12 18:31:02 }; Aug 12 18:31:11 Uses document.write to add a script tag to the currently loading document. Aug 12 18:31:23 Can only be used during document load. Not recommended Aug 12 18:32:29 That sounds.... promising! Aug 12 18:34:11 Mojo.setupFramework = function() { Aug 12 18:34:17 that could be neat too Aug 12 18:35:58 also the controller_*.js files could be hacked i bet Aug 12 18:36:05 This could... open the door for... amazing things Aug 12 18:37:42 If we can get an extra js to be setup from one of those places, we could patch only that to add custom js. Have the js linked to a writeable area, allowing for an app to customize and then reboot luna Aug 12 18:52:45 Hello - does anyone know which log file is uploaded to Palm? Aug 12 18:52:58 I'm talking about this: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9864/palm-pre-reports-users-daily-actions-and-location/ Aug 12 18:54:05 Dunno, but it uploads more than that. I wiped my phone w/ webos doctor last week and it automatically reinstalled Terminal w/ no action from me. I assume that wouldn't be possible w/o also uploading either the app itself or the install URL. Aug 12 18:54:26 weird Aug 12 18:54:27 Well, that'd likely be part of the daily backup but /still/. Aug 12 18:55:22 I was just going to write an app to input tons of erroneous information into the log files. Applications opening up 100 times a minute that don't even exist, jet setting GPS locations across the globe, etc. Aug 12 18:55:51 So FWIW, anyone who installed My Tether would also find that snitched out. Aug 12 18:55:58 er, backed up. Aug 12 18:56:00 They can collect my information if they want, they just won't be able to get anything useful out of it Aug 12 18:56:25 That must be new, because none of my sideloaded apps were restored when I did the same process Aug 12 18:59:12 jjore: I don't think they back up any apps, just make a list and reinstall the ones off the catalog Aug 12 18:59:48 that was my impression Aug 12 19:00:00 jjore: it reinstall Terminal for you? Aug 12 19:00:06 Yes. Aug 12 19:00:14 that's amazing and surprising to me Aug 12 19:00:35 i was on my house phone and i nmaped my cell looking to see if the ssh port was open Aug 12 19:00:42 and Nascar too. :-( Aug 12 19:00:46 and man, the phone made all sorts of noise Aug 12 19:00:55 jjore: nascar comes on the device Aug 12 19:00:56 it was rather interesting Aug 12 19:01:14 Yes, I know. It was a mild joke. Aug 12 19:01:15 What do you mean noise? Aug 12 19:01:27 Technobabble: so that must mean there are interesting ports open that react strangely to being probed Aug 12 19:01:32 Technobabble: did you have dev mode on? Aug 12 19:02:30 jjore: when you installed terminal originally, you installed it from preware or something else? Aug 12 19:02:49 I don't recall the steps I followed. Sorry. Aug 12 19:03:00 the ones on the wiki though?: Aug 12 19:04:58 Yes Aug 12 19:05:04 some version of it anyway. Aug 12 19:05:13 I am skeptical Aug 12 19:06:23 terminal stopped at 0.1.6 version? Aug 12 19:08:05 I'm grepping for Terminal. I'll tell you what I find. Aug 12 19:08:20 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7/ last version is 0.1.6 Aug 12 19:09:48 jjore: cd /var/usr/palm/applications Aug 12 19:09:59 ls org.* Aug 12 19:10:26 or ls *term* u should see terminal there Aug 12 19:11:30 ... my guess is, doctor doesn't erase files, it only overwrites/re-installs files Aug 12 19:11:53 ... and since terminal is not their app, they dont touch it Aug 12 19:12:20 i did doctor and it whiped out everything Aug 12 19:12:43 wiped* Aug 12 19:13:38 http://pastie.org/581724 # shows it likely retained the files through the Doctor. Aug 12 19:14:13 Zuchmir2: doctor rewrites the rootfs totally AFAIK Aug 12 19:14:58 ok Aug 12 19:15:10 I used Doctor late on August 7th because I planned to show up at a predevcamp the following day. Some of the files in that directory were last modified July 30th which sounds right for when I installed Terminal Aug 12 19:15:18 ... so how do u think term survived? Aug 12 19:15:50 Zuchmir2++ Aug 12 19:15:57 jjore: the July 30th date could be the archive date which would be preserved Aug 12 19:16:21 Yes, it /could/ be. Aug 12 19:16:39 whenever you extract tar archives their dates will be restored if possible Aug 12 19:17:19 dest, dev mode is off and no ports showed on the normal scan (apparently 222 isn't a normal nmap port) Aug 12 19:17:33 and the sound i heard was through the ear piece of my normal house phone Aug 12 19:17:56 Technobabble: what was your nmap command line? and have you been able to reproduce the situation a second time Aug 12 19:17:59 ya know how when your phone is about to ring, you hear the data packets making that noise? Aug 12 19:18:05 oh, right Aug 12 19:18:22 so it was radio interference from the CDMA modem Aug 12 19:18:26 it was just an nmap -P0 ipaddr Aug 12 19:18:29 right Aug 12 19:18:34 or, hmm Aug 12 19:18:40 could it possibly have been from wifi? Aug 12 19:18:41 but i found it interesting 'cause i could hear each packet Aug 12 19:18:47 no, wifi's not on ATM Aug 12 19:18:51 "each packet?" Aug 12 19:19:08 jjore, yeah, "each packet" should be in quotes Aug 12 19:19:23 it's probably sending a bunch of the scan stuff in bunches Aug 12 19:22:57 am i supposed to be able to ssh into 222 on my CDMA network IP? Aug 12 19:22:59 or just my wifi Aug 12 19:23:10 or is it EVDO, or whatever that's called Aug 12 19:26:31 Technobabble: depends on your iptables rules in your optware-dropbear config file Aug 12 19:26:45 in /etc/event.d Aug 12 19:26:53 i'll have a check Aug 12 19:27:05 it's not on by default though, right? Aug 12 19:27:06 I think it defaults to -i eth0 Aug 12 19:27:15 for wifi Aug 12 19:27:24 dest, what's your page for your terminal program again? Aug 12 19:27:27 i'll use that Aug 12 19:28:09 Technobabble: note, it's not mine per se, I'm just one of several contributers Aug 12 19:28:10 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Aug 12 19:29:30 I kind of got the ball rolling but mrvc and Zuchmir2 have done significantly more of it then I have at this point Aug 12 19:30:25 and others from here have added important pieces Aug 12 19:34:03 Zuchmir2: doctor erases whole device Aug 12 19:34:07 from my experience at least Aug 12 19:34:15 clean slate Aug 12 19:35:49 Puff: ok, so how do u think it survive jjore's case? Aug 12 19:36:32 idk, did dr. really run completly? Aug 12 19:36:41 i know i had a clean slate when i ran dr. Aug 12 19:37:04 maybe he used an old jar instead of getting the latest from palm directly and the old one had a odd behavior Aug 12 19:37:05 idk Aug 12 19:37:35 i know the erase/reset on the plam dont do mucbh either Aug 12 19:38:09 jjore: look at the creating/mod date of the folder @ http://pastie.org/581724 it's Aug 7! Aug 12 19:39:03 which means it came back on friday Aug 12 19:40:05 http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/08/12/palm-pre-owners-big-brother-is-watching/ Aug 12 19:40:14 did anyone read this today Aug 12 19:42:50 its on precentral too Aug 12 19:42:50 :p Aug 12 19:43:36 :P Aug 12 19:43:40 yeah man Aug 12 19:44:40 bsdbandit, that scares the crap outa me Aug 12 19:45:05 did they have a way to disable it? Aug 12 19:45:12 yup Aug 12 19:45:15 end of the article Aug 12 19:45:18 precentral Aug 12 19:45:24 it's in /etc/init.d/ Aug 12 19:45:35 i think its through the firewall right Aug 12 19:45:36 ? Aug 12 19:45:46 just delete the script Aug 12 19:45:56 fuck, on a dialy basis? really? Aug 12 19:46:24 whats the name of the script Aug 12 19:46:25 ? Aug 12 19:48:33 /etc/event.d/uploadd from the looks of it Aug 12 19:49:16 sounds familiar Aug 12 19:49:22 cat it Aug 12 19:49:29 it might not even be binary Aug 12 19:49:42 * nebula -> train -> home Aug 12 19:50:20 i thought it is updater.sh Aug 12 19:50:21 ? Aug 12 19:51:09 you guys Aug 12 19:51:11 im looking at this Aug 12 19:51:13 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Alt_optmedia Aug 12 19:51:33 This document will replace step 2 of the Setting_up_optware_feed how-to. Everything before and after is the same. Aug 12 19:51:37 what does it mean by that Aug 12 19:51:57 We've known about phone home for about a month guys. Aug 12 19:52:36 ithey technobabble is it the uploadd script Aug 12 19:52:37 ? Aug 12 19:53:41 do any of the files it sends have device-id/phone-number/personal data? Aug 12 19:54:00 hey rick_work Aug 12 19:54:11 how does one disable this Aug 12 19:54:24 through the uploadd script Aug 12 19:54:30 but deleting it Aug 12 19:54:31 ? Aug 12 19:54:57 http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/Palm_Pre_privacy/ Aug 12 19:55:07 that's the disable. Aug 12 19:55:19 But as I said, we've talked about this in here for over a month. Aug 12 19:55:43 No great suprises in it. It's been sniffed, captured and the source looked at weeks go. Joey just got PRESS. Aug 12 19:55:43 i have not been with you guys a month Aug 12 19:55:53 now, I have a question. What's the big f'ing deal? Aug 12 19:55:59 I've been lurking here a few weeks and must've missed it Aug 12 19:56:06 me 2 Aug 12 19:56:14 what did you say about it rick_work Aug 12 19:56:16 ? Aug 12 19:56:52 Seemed like a big deal at first thought, but worried less and less the more I think about it Aug 12 19:57:13 the info upload doesn't concern me, but then i don't have a dead hooker in the trunk of my car. Aug 12 19:57:51 Pretty sure other phones have been doing it in one form or another for years Aug 12 19:57:53 what's it sending. Your gps position when apps on the phone crash -- a condition of service for the carrier so that they can tell which towers are causing problems. All phones do that. Aug 12 19:58:07 it's sending the crash log of apps that crash. Aug 12 19:58:21 Now I'm more concerned about Palm getting the shaft about it Aug 12 19:58:33 it's sending the ipkg list of installed apps, so they can figure out which ones are interfeering with each other Aug 12 19:58:42 and it's sending the use-order info for the apps, ditto. Aug 12 19:58:47 big f-ing deal. Aug 12 19:58:49 but i will certainly add "disable Pre phone home" to my dead hooker plan. Aug 12 19:59:02 it is NOT sending the list of web sites you visit Aug 12 19:59:02 lol Aug 12 19:59:11 it is not sending the list of phone numbers you talk to Aug 12 19:59:30 * lmorchard starts drafting plan to manufacture a Faraday cage belt case. Aug 12 19:59:32 (althoug, of course, SPRINTS routers know all that information, except when you're on wifi for the browser.) Aug 12 19:59:58 It's not sending the list of everyone you message or email with, it doesn't need to, SPRINTS servers already HAVE all that. Aug 12 20:00:19 So, bsdbandit what is it, exactly that you are concerned about here? Aug 12 20:00:34 o Aug 12 20:01:29 so where is the link to disabling that Aug 12 20:01:48 rm /usr/bin/contextupload Aug 12 20:02:23 bsdbandit: that is for the crashupload thing... i forgot i was scrolled up so the question was out of context Aug 12 20:06:09 is anyone working on adding support for other IM systems like yahoo, sametime, etc? Aug 12 20:09:33 djk1: kind of hoping that would come from palm tbh. Aug 12 20:11:12 Templarian: good point I should ask in webos not here. Aug 12 20:12:03 Templarian: fyi on the space problem I had yesterday it seems Palm has put a limit on the number of non palm apps. Aug 12 20:12:26 They might of had to still setup everything for push probably. Aug 12 20:12:27 djk1 not exactly Aug 12 20:12:41 djk1: really? Aug 12 20:12:48 Templarian not exactly Aug 12 20:12:59 no? That was the comment from on precentral Aug 12 20:13:40 and it seems valid since df -ah show plenty of space and if I delete an app I can another Aug 12 20:13:57 df in /var? Aug 12 20:13:59 djk1: curious what's your app count? Aug 12 20:14:50 * Templarian thinks hehe more apps that what the app store has atm... Aug 12 20:15:04 That part that I find not to match the response of a limit of 60 and I had 45+ in the non apps Aug 12 20:15:19 s/app store/app catelog/ Aug 12 20:15:33 djk1 how many _total_ apps did you have loaded? Aug 12 20:15:51 How many apps did you have on PAGE ONE of your launcher, and what was df of the /var partition? Aug 12 20:16:26 Yea, I think there is a limit per page... (might be 20) Aug 12 20:17:04 Ah a page limit have to check on that Aug 12 20:17:28 I have multiple pages and just move some things around Aug 12 20:18:04 * Templarian will probably figure out eventually that there is also a page limit lol Aug 12 20:18:16 what thread were you reading on precentral Aug 12 20:20:19 djk1??? Aug 12 20:22:16 djk1 Templarian -- I have had as many as 100 apps on my phone at once. Aug 12 20:22:23 I do not think there is a limit in launcher. Aug 12 20:22:25 hand on multitasking (I know human really can't really do thta;-) ) Aug 12 20:22:30 ((( although there might be))) Aug 12 20:22:44 I truely think that the only limit is the space in /var. Aug 12 20:22:58 I have run up against THat six or seven times. Aug 12 20:23:14 Remember that the iphone only allows 128 apps. Aug 12 20:23:33 but as far as I can tell, the only REAL limit is the space in /var Aug 12 20:23:39 if that is so wonder what the line is since /var has lots of space left Aug 12 20:23:43 which looks to have been SERIOUSLY under-sized. Aug 12 20:23:53 djk1 what's the df in your /var? Aug 12 20:24:07 the installer quits when the space free is < 89% Aug 12 20:24:12 248.0M 119.6M 128.4M 48% /var Aug 12 20:24:15 oooops Aug 12 20:24:23 I ment free < 11% Aug 12 20:24:24 ok, Aug 12 20:24:34 and you have three pagesin the launcher. Aug 12 20:24:39 how many apps on page one? Aug 12 20:25:39 hmmm Aug 12 20:26:20 42 but I just moved things arond Aug 12 20:26:23 around Aug 12 20:26:40 thta might be what they meant of 60 apps on the first page Aug 12 20:27:09 which would imply 180 total apps on a thre-page unmodified palm Aug 12 20:27:28 unless you add pages.... Aug 12 20:28:18 * Templarian bets someone would fill their device with just apps if the /var folder was expanded. Aug 12 20:28:23 I have addedd pages Aug 12 20:29:01 djk1: so moving the apps around didn't make a difference? Aug 12 20:30:02 not sure I have to trying more Aug 12 20:30:04 again Aug 12 20:31:47 aurgh I can't find the post I made for the reply of 60 Aug 12 20:32:18 does the palm has lsof? Aug 12 20:32:19 have Aug 12 20:32:29 oh god, i just sounded like a lolcat there, sorry guys Aug 12 20:33:09 nope, but i just installed it, disregard that Aug 12 20:33:21 you can has ipkg? Aug 12 20:33:59 destinal: ping Aug 12 20:35:19 Rick_Work: ping Aug 12 20:35:30 Rick_Work: here a link to some reference on the app limit. Not the one I have originally. Aug 12 20:35:31 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194825-filecoaster-first-pre-gui-downloader-installer-37.html Aug 12 20:41:59 Templarian: app count on first page doesn't seem to be it. I added 2 more get the error trying to add a 3rd more one to another page still get an error Aug 12 20:42:39 and still lots of space Aug 12 20:42:39 248.0M 121.5M 126.5M 49% /var Aug 12 20:43:35 I only have like 20 apps i'm no where near you guys lol... Hopefully you figure it out. Aug 12 20:44:06 do you get an error? Aug 12 20:44:44 PuffTheMagic: tested this, the info does comethough correctly: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/commit/c9ea6dab1ce0ab1e03d10766e24d5ad8362d1c25 Aug 12 20:44:46 this is while using the fileCoaster app to install Aug 12 20:46:10 hmm Aug 12 20:46:16 crap.. puff is here Aug 12 20:46:23 PuffTheMagic: so if someone want to use this, and add support for fancy stuff in JS, go ahead Aug 12 20:46:32 * dijital1 was about to rant about no multitasking Aug 12 20:47:12 Zuchmir2: how does one actually see stuff that is outputed to Mojo.Log.info Aug 12 20:47:41 /me throws a brickat puffthemagic and runs Aug 12 20:47:43 Zuchmir2: cool Aug 12 20:47:43 change info to error, and tail -f /var/log/messages Aug 12 20:47:46 :) Aug 12 20:47:59 Zuchmir2: ahh i didnt realize it used syslog Aug 12 20:48:16 ... there's also somewhere to change log level to 99, and then info is also in that file Aug 12 20:51:37 the more and more i use my pre the more and more i hate notifications Aug 12 20:51:38 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1725 Aug 12 20:51:43 i thought it would be a sweet feature Aug 12 20:51:46 but its fucking annoying Aug 12 20:56:38 PuffTheMagic: just added that file to the HEAD Aug 12 20:56:51 yeah i know about it Aug 12 20:57:05 i just didnt know "where" the output went Aug 12 20:57:13 .. so now Mojo.Log.info() will show up in /var/log/messages Aug 12 20:57:15 * PuffTheMagic finds it easier to use console.log() Aug 12 20:57:28 where does that go? Aug 12 20:57:34 stdout Aug 12 20:57:38 to sdterr? Aug 12 20:57:45 no that is console.error90 Aug 12 20:57:46 () Aug 12 20:58:02 but that means u have to startstop/start luna in fg Aug 12 20:58:33 * egaudet_work agrees, stdout wins Aug 12 21:00:25 usually i prefer stdout/stderr, but when ssh, i don't want to freeze the pre when it disconnects Aug 12 21:00:32 Zuchmir2: i do that anyway Aug 12 21:00:50 dev on the emulator... not the pre Aug 12 21:00:55 what stop/start, or freeze? Aug 12 21:01:12 run luna in fg Aug 12 21:01:27 ok, my setup the emulator segfaults if i run it in fg! Aug 12 21:01:39 so i have to use the pre Aug 12 21:02:59 that happened to me the first few times i tried it Aug 12 21:03:02 but it dont any more Aug 12 21:03:05 idk what caused it Aug 12 21:03:10 but got the segfaults too Aug 12 21:04:22 did u test this patch, and see the output? Aug 12 21:04:44 to me the output looked correct Aug 12 21:07:46 no i didnt test it yet Aug 12 21:10:51 !seen Hopspitfire Aug 12 21:11:01 or is it ~ Aug 12 21:14:47 PuffTheMagic: back Aug 12 21:15:15 PuffTheMagic: pong Aug 12 21:15:15 destinal: i keep missing your answer about the confirmation app Aug 12 21:15:26 destinal: and could you make me a new repo on gitorious Aug 12 21:15:45 kernel.git :D Aug 12 21:16:06 PuffTheMagic: I have the confirmation thing mapped out on paper but not implemented in code Aug 12 21:16:15 k Aug 12 21:16:25 PuffTheMagic: also we're moving away from gitorious to git.webos-internals.org Aug 12 21:16:35 yeah i know Aug 12 21:16:48 but it wont hurt anything ;) Aug 12 21:27:37 geist: ping!!!!! Aug 12 21:27:53 geist: can you send me the url to your omap jtag boot thingy Aug 12 21:28:16 hey anyone know how to change the wallpaper Aug 12 21:29:31 i ve uploaded the jpg images to the /media/internal/wallpapers directory but when i go to change wallpaper i cannot see it Aug 12 21:29:34 ? Aug 12 21:30:04 did you size them properly? Aug 12 21:30:33 it only shows the 12 images Aug 12 21:30:56 it does not even give me an option to chose the 13.jpg Aug 12 21:31:03 thats what i renamed the file Aug 12 21:32:29 <+Rick_Work> did you size them properly? Aug 12 21:33:00 i had an issue with a Greyscale pic, changed it to RGB and it was fine Aug 12 21:34:05 oh ok Aug 12 21:34:16 im going to download a jpg right now Aug 12 21:34:19 and try again Aug 12 21:36:46 j #webos Aug 12 21:38:33 Is the Pre wifi chipset capable of operating in infrastructure mode? Aug 12 21:38:42 ok that worked Aug 12 21:38:43 thanks Aug 12 21:41:08 destinal: what is the confirmation app? Aug 12 21:42:18 Zuchmir2: imagine a service that your service can talk to in order to ask the user if they want to do something that has an effect on the underlying linux OS or is otherwise outside the bounds of normal mojo type behavior Aug 12 21:43:02 this service talks to a headless app that describes the action and prompts for ok / cancel etc Aug 12 21:43:43 a service = native C prog? Aug 12 21:43:48 then returns confirm / deny to the calling service which then knows whether the user wants to do something (rather than just some mojo app wanting it to do something) Aug 12 21:44:45 Zuchmir2: it could be C or Java. Since palm hasn't yet released their adapter source, Java is much easier Aug 12 21:45:08 (or rather a working / complete version of their adapter C source) Aug 12 21:45:33 i can imagine using the framework i've used in terminal (api.c) we could call something like: showAlertDialog() Aug 12 21:46:06 Zuchmir2: not a browser plugin Aug 12 21:46:24 I'm talking about system services Aug 12 21:46:36 you have a browser plugin in a headless app, which popsup Aug 12 21:46:39 the kind that communicate via the lunaservice model over dbus Aug 12 21:47:11 Zuchmir2: or you can just have a headless app subscribing to a system service Aug 12 21:47:20 the dbus thingie is beyond me for the moment Aug 12 21:48:55 browser plugins are not usually the right tool for running native code in webos IMO. I default to services unless there's a really good reason for the code to be in a plugin Aug 12 21:49:20 (such as was the case in terminal, we wanted direct graphics support) Aug 12 21:49:20 agreed Aug 12 21:49:54 but somehow the info has to make it back to the browser Aug 12 21:50:12 info/prompt Aug 12 21:50:30 yeah, you should look into the system service api Aug 12 21:50:49 it's how mojo apps generally interact with just about anything low-level Aug 12 21:51:28 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?view=article&id=1538 Aug 12 21:51:30 but there mojo calls low-level, u want to do the reverse, u want low level to buble-up to the mojo Aug 12 21:52:00 Zuchmir2: that's what subscription is for Aug 12 21:52:30 when the mojo app starts up, it says, I want to hear events for anything like XYZ. then it can go to sleep and just handle those messages when they come in Aug 12 21:53:18 ok, got it Aug 12 22:04:05 PuffTheMagic: hmm? Aug 12 22:10:41 geist: destinal said you had some tool on your website that lets you boot new kernels or something Aug 12 22:11:35 geist: is the the url to your website Aug 12 22:14:07 Ah,the tech blogs have finally realised about the Pre privacy issues I've been talking about here for the last month ... Aug 12 22:31:56 Decimation: you should be able to commit to gitorious now. sorry for the delay. thanks for updating the patch. Aug 12 22:34:08 rwhitby: if i send you my ssh key now can you get me set up on the new git server Aug 12 22:34:19 and then either make me a repo or set me up to make repos Aug 12 22:34:34 PuffTheMagic: absolutely Aug 12 22:34:51 Who ever did the twitter update for precentral you didn't copy the entire link. Aug 12 22:35:01 PuffTheMagic: you got my request for keys email a couple of days ago? Aug 12 22:35:08 yeah i saw that Aug 12 22:35:11 been lazy ;) Aug 12 22:36:32 rwhitby: sent Aug 12 22:36:50 rwhitby: your twitter link re; on-screen keyboard is broken ;-/ Aug 12 22:39:20 Templarian, czarphanguye: fixed Aug 12 22:39:43 need to work out how to shorten links easily in adium twitter interface Aug 12 22:39:47 rwhitby: let me know when its ready Aug 12 22:39:50 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/On_Screen_Keyboard Aug 12 22:39:53 ty, ah.. that looks pretty neat Aug 12 22:39:59 PuffTheMagic: 'kernel.git' ? Aug 12 22:40:28 yup :D Aug 12 22:40:46 PuffTheMagic: virtual username 'PuffTheMagic' ? or something else? Aug 12 22:40:54 yeah thats fine Aug 12 22:42:55 PuffTheMagic: nope, no such tool Aug 12 22:43:23 * PuffTheMagic has a feeling geist will say no to anything i ask now Aug 12 22:43:36 PuffTheMagic: let me know when you've pushed the initial repo contents, and I'll fix the hooks afterwards for CIA reporting Aug 12 22:43:40 Mmm.. Patch should be found in /opt/src.. am I missing something? I don't see any /opt/src Aug 12 22:43:50 rwhitby: dont worry about cia on this repo Aug 12 22:44:06 merging kernel code will spam the hell out of this channel Aug 12 22:44:20 PuffTheMagic: I just dont have it Aug 12 22:44:28 not sure where destinal came up with that Aug 12 22:44:49 geist: well do you have a website? he saw something on it Aug 12 22:44:58 tkgeisel.com Aug 12 22:45:11 thanks Aug 12 22:45:53 geist: are you guys close to getting upstream with your kernel support, or is that something we shouldnt expect before years end Aug 12 22:47:16 what do you mean? Aug 12 22:48:27 PuffTheMagic: I don't think they need to push things upstream as much as migrate to the new kernel and new omap tree Aug 12 22:48:52 you said palm and the oss community had 2 parallel branches of omap3 devel going on, and you allueded to palm/you tring to switch to the upstream code Aug 12 22:48:57 destinal: yes that is what i mean Aug 12 22:49:06 * rwhitby bbl Aug 12 22:49:10 rwhitby: im not seeing it on gitweb Aug 12 22:49:18 is the repo there? Aug 12 22:49:19 we're working on it Aug 12 22:49:35 geist: right so is that something we might expect by years end? Aug 12 22:49:38 or is that a pipe dream Aug 12 22:49:45 dunno Aug 12 22:49:52 why do you care? Aug 12 22:50:01 what are you looking for specifically? Aug 12 22:52:26 geist: just not being limited to palms kernel Aug 12 22:52:46 and i was curious where getting upstream was on their priority list Aug 12 22:53:03 PuffTheMagic: you're not limited to their kernel, you can make your own from the new omap stuff Aug 12 22:53:20 yeah, us rebasing on something new != getting stuff upstream Aug 12 22:53:27 the latter is a far far harder problem to solve Aug 12 22:54:41 forget it... Aug 12 22:55:04 of course it's in our best interest to get stuff pushed upstream Aug 12 22:55:05 I think the closed marvell driver can be replaced by the newish open one.. I think there were a couple other binary kernel modules Aug 12 22:55:13 less baggage to drag along Aug 12 22:55:41 but it's no simple task, especially where we may have made changes to ship the product that isn't really okay with the larger community Aug 12 22:55:59 destinal: yes i know i ran run my own kernel i just didnt know how much of the palm hardware is supported upstream yet i didnt look into it Aug 12 22:56:05 wiki says exmap.ko and bridgedriver.ko are binary only in the current joplin-3430 Aug 12 22:56:34 besides the marvell which like I said I think there's an open replacement now Aug 12 22:56:39 but I haven't checked any of this myself Aug 12 23:00:14 geist: i was just asking about the upstream stuff cause 1) i dont get why palm still does not have an open git repo for their kernel work and 2) if you guys are close to releasing a newer kernel i might not waste my time on it Aug 12 23:00:34 but since neither seem like they are gonna happen any time soon.... Aug 12 23:00:48 PuffTheMagic: would you like fries with that? :P Aug 12 23:02:01 yes please, curly fries Aug 12 23:03:07 Palm obviously has their own priorities and improving and shipping products is a bit higher on that priority list -- I think "when it's done" is totally reasonable for the rebasing./ Aug 12 23:04:01 Again, nothing (except maybe lack of a couple of drivers) prevents us from doing our own thing with newer kernels Aug 12 23:05:35 Can somebody help me apply patches? Aug 12 23:05:46 where does ctrl+shift+l log the html? Aug 12 23:10:50 Can somebody help me apply patches on my pre? Aug 12 23:10:57 * gkatsev installs onscreen keyboard Aug 12 23:11:23 * czarphanguye also installs onscreen keyboard, used kpkill lunarsysmgr.. don't seen anything. maybe a full reboot? Aug 12 23:11:25 geist: sorry for being a dick... Aug 12 23:11:28 kesne_: what type of help? Aug 12 23:19:01 kesne_: look at the patch and see what directory the files are in that the patch applies to and cd to that directory, then count the number of directories are in the path of the patch, then to 'patch -pN < /path/to/patch' where N is the number of directories you counted Aug 12 23:19:14 I'm having trouble creating a clone of the modification repo http://webos.pastebin.com/d484d34fe Aug 12 23:19:42 mrjcarter: dont clone it, create an empty repo and add it as a remote Aug 12 23:20:56 is there a guide in the wiki with details on how to do that? currently I'm just trying to run the quilt-bootstrap script Aug 12 23:21:19 mkdir pre-modifications; cd pre-modifications; git init; git remote add webosinternals-modifications ; git fetch webosinternals-modifications Aug 12 23:22:22 git checkout mods webosinternals-modifications/HEAD Aug 12 23:22:29 git checkout -b mods webosinternals-modifications/HEAD Aug 12 23:22:42 forget the 2 commands up Aug 12 23:22:47 that was a type-o Aug 12 23:23:23 the directory "pre-modifications" should be where? in /opt/src ? Aug 12 23:25:34 mrjcarter: is this on the pre or on your desktop? Aug 12 23:25:44 desktop Aug 12 23:25:55 then it can be where ever you want Aug 12 23:26:11 well it should be able to go where ever you want Aug 12 23:26:13 Anyone using the onscreen keyboard? Does it only load when you slide out the real keyboard? Aug 12 23:26:23 but i know nothing about any of the automated scripts Aug 12 23:26:33 i know git and patch Aug 12 23:26:41 but i dont know what the scripts are doing Aug 12 23:26:52 ok thanks, I'll look into iit more Aug 12 23:27:17 czarphanguye, I believe you have to have the cursor in a text field then you tap the gesture area Aug 12 23:29:22 PuffTheMagic, maybe im not entering the the git url correctly, but when I run "get fetc webosinternals-modifications" I get fatal: 'gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git' does not appear to be a git repository Aug 12 23:29:24 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Aug 12 23:29:41 what url are you using? Aug 12 23:30:14 this is the command I entered: git remote add webosinternals-modifications Aug 12 23:30:16 git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git Aug 12 23:31:39 btw I think I misunderstood you question early, I am actually on my pre. I thought you meant using the actual webos terminal app on my pre Aug 12 23:31:49 mrjcarter: Thanks.. it helps when you know how to access it ;-) much better Aug 12 23:31:55 you better not listen to me at all then Aug 12 23:32:06 I didn't put it just anywhere though Aug 12 23:32:15 i put it in /opt/src Aug 12 23:32:20 (got that from the wiki) Aug 12 23:32:45 czarphanguye, no prob Aug 12 23:32:55 now if I can only get mine to work Aug 12 23:34:03 brb mrjcarter, then if you need some help I'll be around ;-) Aug 12 23:34:12 thanks Aug 12 23:34:53 PuffTheMagic, can you confirm that "git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git" is the correct url? Aug 12 23:35:34 looks right... but if you look on gitorious.com/webos-internals it will tell you for sure Aug 12 23:38:34 hm... i getting "fatal: Unable to look up gitorious.org (port 9418) (Temporary failure in name resolution)" when trying to git pull mods Aug 12 23:38:59 Ok now I'm getting "fatal: unable to connect a socket (Connection timed out) Aug 12 23:42:36 PuffTheMagic: there is no repo - you get to push it to create it Aug 12 23:43:23 rwhitby: that would create the initial branch... but usually it shows in gitweb regardless if its been seeded or not Aug 12 23:43:27 what is the push url? Aug 12 23:44:26 git@webos-internals.org:kernel.git Aug 12 23:44:51 k Aug 12 23:44:53 thanks Aug 12 23:45:04 hmm - maybe git@git.webos-internals.org:kernel.git in case we want to move it to a different host from the wiki later Aug 12 23:45:36 i know how to edit a .git/config Aug 12 23:45:39 so it dont matter Aug 12 23:45:42 if it changes it changes Aug 12 23:46:14 ok, the instructions will say git.webos-internals.org for everything Aug 12 23:46:23 k Aug 12 23:46:34 (since that's the gitweb address) Aug 12 23:47:27 ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied Aug 12 23:47:42 halp? Aug 12 23:49:07 PuffTheMagic: sorry, wait 1 Aug 12 23:50:08 PuffTheMagic: try now Aug 12 23:50:56 all good now Aug 12 23:51:03 but im a little confused Aug 12 23:51:10 shouldnt the url need ssh:// prefix Aug 12 23:51:15 when i add that i get an error Aug 12 23:51:20 but using no prefix works Aug 12 23:51:22 it defaults to that when you say foo@ Aug 12 23:51:25 never seen anyhthing like that before Aug 12 23:51:32 but why would it fail if i included it Aug 12 23:51:55 it fails for ssh://git@... ? Aug 12 23:52:08 yup Aug 12 23:52:20 $ git push origin master Aug 12 23:52:20 ssh: Could not resolve hostname : Name or service not known Aug 12 23:53:08 me waits while uploading kernel repo at 120KB/s Aug 12 23:53:10 note that you don't have a user account there, only 'git' does. normal gitosis setup Aug 12 23:53:23 yeah i still used git@ Aug 12 23:53:34 that is not much different that how gitorious works Aug 12 23:53:38 and that uses ssh:// Aug 12 23:54:12 wooth 20/250mb pushed Aug 12 23:54:22 s/wooth/woot Aug 12 23:54:53 root@castle:/opt/src/modifications# git clone git://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications.git results in this error: Aug 12 23:54:55 Initialized empty Git repository in /opt/src/modifications/modifications/.git/ Aug 12 23:54:56 fatal: Unable to look up gitorious.org (port 9418) (Temporary failure in name resolution) Aug 12 23:55:08 any ideas? Aug 12 23:55:50 mrjcarter: looks like network problems or firewall issues at your end Aug 12 23:56:17 mrjcarter: can you ping gitorious.org from the Pre? Aug 12 23:58:00 I'm getting Aug 12 23:58:03 ping: bad address Aug 12 23:58:19 your asking from within putty correct? Aug 13 00:02:32 yes, at the roo@castle prompt Aug 13 00:02:49 so you need to sort out your network access first, before trying to set up patching. Aug 13 00:07:09 rwhitby: r u sure you configured the kernel.git repo for gitweb correctly, i am pretty sure it should show up on gitweb even with out any branches pushed Aug 13 00:11:03 rwhitby: pinging is working fine now, but I'm still getting the same connection timed out error Aug 13 00:11:44 mrjcarter: are you sure all the firewalls and nats between your pre and gitorious.org will pass the git protocol? Aug 13 00:12:29 PuffTheMagic: looking into it ... Aug 13 00:13:30 i dont know the defauly setup for the gitweb you are using but i thought it only showed the repo on gitweb if a file existed in the git repo Aug 13 00:13:43 rwhitby: got it, had to disable both of my firewalls and it worked Aug 13 00:14:28 like git-daemon-export-ok Aug 13 00:14:49 PuffTheMagic: that file does exist Aug 13 00:15:07 drnull you here? Aug 13 00:15:37 rwhitby: you have non-fastforward-commits = false right? Aug 13 00:16:47 rwhitby: master is all pushed and its not there... its definately not cause there was no master ;) Aug 13 00:17:15 PuffTheMagic: dir permissions. fixed now. Aug 13 00:17:37 yup it is ;) thanks Aug 13 00:28:26 rwhitby: pinh Aug 13 00:28:29 ping Aug 13 00:28:48 there is an option in the gitweb.pl that can be configured with the config gile that shows the git pull url on gitweb Aug 13 00:29:00 and i beleive even a way to show the push urls too Aug 13 00:29:11 you should enable the pull url at the very least Aug 13 00:36:41 bzhou * r10555 optware/trunk/make/samba.mk - samba: 3.2.13 -> 3.2.14 Aug 13 00:41:46 Templarian: ping Aug 13 00:41:56 PuffTheMagic: pong Aug 13 00:42:14 did anyone ever make a "warning" template for the wiki Aug 13 00:42:22 like a 100% width pink/red box Aug 13 00:42:28 to contain some text Aug 13 00:42:30 Yea let me go remember what it is. Aug 13 00:42:34 maybe with a exclimation icon Aug 13 00:44:59 PuffTheMagic: guess not http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Template:Warning make it and I'll create an icon for it. Aug 13 00:45:13 i have an icon for it Aug 13 00:45:15 no worry Aug 13 00:46:10 I wanted to make a tux one for it. Aug 13 00:47:34 * rwhitby bbl (long meetings today) Aug 13 01:08:19 PuffTheMagic: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Template:Tux I added a Tux with a warning. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 13 01:24:10 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 13 01:36:14 2009 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 13 01:36:17 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 13 01:38:14 2009 Aug 13 01:40:21 bougyman: we reported that in this channel weeks ago Aug 13 01:41:07 rwhitby: sorry, i can't catch em all. Aug 13 01:41:20 looks less than serious, but more than trivial. Aug 13 01:41:47 iptables -P OUTPUT DROP alleviates any of that. Aug 13 01:47:07 just have it always report the GPS coordinates as the middle of australia Aug 13 01:52:47 hey guys Aug 13 01:53:14 i have a question about the palm pre privacy Aug 13 01:53:31 would it be ok to post how to get rid of this on the wiki Aug 13 01:53:32 ? Aug 13 01:54:26 I'd assume so Aug 13 02:01:20 I assume it would be fine. Aug 13 02:01:29 Expect that the other side of the argument will be presented to. Aug 13 02:01:31 too Aug 13 02:02:48 bougyman: not having a go at you for missing it, just letting people know that it's not something new. Aug 13 02:07:19 no, good deal. Aug 13 02:07:23 i'm glad the info is out. Aug 13 02:09:21 the niceness about webos is that we can easily modify the daemon to not upload if you feel it's an invasion Aug 13 02:11:12 i personally don't Aug 13 02:11:27 everything i do that's of any importance is over vpn or ssh. Aug 13 02:12:13 the location stuff is curious. Aug 13 02:12:17 i'd like to just bar that. Aug 13 02:12:45 i wonder if snort would render 'net unusable on this thing. Aug 13 02:12:56 i doubt it has the iptables string match built. Aug 13 02:13:04 yeah it's goofy that they'd choose to do that and not let users opt-out Aug 13 02:13:13 microsoft lets users opt-out of user data, as does apple Aug 13 02:13:41 hrm.. do we have kernel header access? Aug 13 02:13:42 * bougyman looks Aug 13 02:13:55 i could build the mods in debian against them, if so. Aug 13 02:21:13 Rboatright wiki * r4293 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/EBook-Reader - 1 Aug 13 02:29:50 some headers yes, some headers no. Depends on what you're looking for. Opensource.palm.com Aug 13 02:50:06 Templarian: i feel like i am being spammed by that damn tux Aug 13 02:51:02 lol. But the little guys cute. Takes away the boring of the whole wiki being mostly text. Aug 13 02:55:41 PuffTheMagic wiki * r4299 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels_v2 - New page: {{Warning|The directions on this page are for building a kernel for the Palm Pre using a armv7 cross toolchain. There are plenty of instructions on how to get a cross toolchain for the Pre... Aug 13 02:56:00 Im on ubuntu, need a better sftp program, reccomendations Aug 13 02:56:11 better than what? I use filezilla Aug 13 02:56:18 the default one Aug 13 02:56:22 connect to server **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 13 02:59:57 2009