**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 15 02:59:59 2009 Aug 15 03:05:11 jauderho: -- hi Aug 15 03:05:19 care to talk re epub for a moment? Aug 15 03:05:30 sure Aug 15 03:06:11 not trying to push it but it seems to be the most "open" amongst the multitude of ebook formats Aug 15 03:08:35 I couldn't agree more. Aug 15 03:08:37 _but_ Aug 15 03:08:48 it's a multi-file spec with integral ZIP handling Aug 15 03:08:49 lol there's always the "but" Aug 15 03:09:01 meaning, without a binary, I don't know how we can possibly support it. Aug 15 03:09:23 I'm not trying to be a creepy asshat, but there _is_ no javascript implementation of unzip Aug 15 03:09:25 does the creator of prepod hangs around here? Aug 15 03:09:43 And some experiments with the C code suggest why. consider it a factor of 12 slower. Aug 15 03:10:03 is it possible to not zip? Aug 15 03:10:12 just use the OPF? Aug 15 03:10:21 I have not looked at the standard in detail Aug 15 03:10:31 no Aug 15 03:10:36 perhaps i should reply on the forum Aug 15 03:10:59 See the standard is "take an xml document, attach the various image files, put a header file on it, and zip it up Aug 15 03:11:40 there's a list of possible formats here. Aug 15 03:11:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-book_formats Aug 15 03:11:48 personally I do not care about images Aug 15 03:12:04 but first, anyone know if it is possible to do pitch modulation and playback speed tweaking in javascript? Aug 15 03:12:06 if I'm reading a book Aug 15 03:15:31 also, for those that suggested, installing linux on my netbook did not help winXP bootup, unfortunately, though, i think im just not doing the bootable winXP usb drive correctly Aug 15 03:16:38 For the epub thing, would it help if there was a web service component that did some pre-digestion on an epub for the pre? Aug 15 03:16:44 Cloud thinking and all that Aug 15 03:16:51 UGH Aug 15 03:17:04 Robi_: what's wrong with 0.1.7? is it the packaging of the app, or was the source broken at packaging time? Aug 15 03:17:15 I do not want an ereader that has any network dependency Aug 15 03:17:30 Well, network dependency is kind of the Pre's middle name Aug 15 03:17:47 I don't mean for actually reading the book, but for loading it onto the device Aug 15 03:18:10 well the problem is storing it in some format. Aug 15 03:18:46 Well, you could have a web service unzip it and feed it to the pre in a form suitable for shoehorning into an onboard DB Aug 15 03:18:56 sending it into the cloud for zip/unzip I guess.. Aug 15 03:18:57 virtual filesystem atop sqlite or somesuch Aug 15 03:19:12 Then you could read it on a plane for all the thing cares about after that Aug 15 03:20:02 (which is what I'd do, personally, having read 10 novels in stanza on my ipod touch so far) Aug 15 03:20:33 bpadalino: did you get an arm compiler working on macosx for plugins? Aug 15 03:21:24 bpadalino: I'm trying to get the preware repo to build on macosx as well as linux. got everything working except plugins - just need to fold in a macosx cross compiler for arm Aug 15 03:24:07 jauderho: the problem with that is, the onboard db would have to have a file system to handle all the parts. Aug 15 03:24:16 a single ebook can have hundreds of illustrations Aug 15 03:25:02 writing a virtual file system sounds like a lot of work. Aug 15 03:25:11 Stanza uses fbreader's code internally Aug 15 03:26:12 Yeah, a lot of contortions for something probably best handled in native code Aug 15 03:28:34 agreed Aug 15 03:29:05 the pre doesnt allow filesystem access Aug 15 03:29:13 Hey everyone, can I get some feedback on my checkers app? http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/checkers Aug 15 03:29:18 it would be nice to have a method to read from the fs. Aug 15 03:29:48 well Aug 15 03:30:11 we could just suck it up, make it homebrew and run fbreader code in a service or plugin JUST LIKE STANZA DOES. Aug 15 03:30:13 which is tempting Aug 15 03:30:29 but that means no app catalog for the forseeable future. Aug 15 03:30:44 good evening all, how might I update the value of a richtextedit widgit? Aug 15 03:30:59 by setting the value property of the model Aug 15 03:31:02 Have there been any noises from Palm about eventually allowing native code apps? even if informal? Aug 15 03:31:12 nope Aug 15 03:31:21 only the fact that some exist Aug 15 03:31:24 seems like special exceptions for compelling homebrew would be a win for them Aug 15 03:31:28 but NOTHING On how to do that. Aug 15 03:31:31 might be Aug 15 03:31:49 Rick_home: if it means a useable ereader Aug 15 03:31:53 seems like the homebrew folks are doing them a favor too by exploring and documenting all the native stuff :) Aug 15 03:32:04 That's the issue I come back to. Aug 15 03:32:19 so what I have heard from them is Aug 15 03:32:29 they eventually would like to see opengl support Aug 15 03:32:30 BTW, folks do me a favor and rate BOTH of the games I helped mentor the programmers for 5 stars tonight, checkers and breakout -- pretty please Aug 15 03:32:34 which implies native sdk Aug 15 03:32:41 but no timeframe Aug 15 03:33:04 Rick_work: Thank you Aug 15 03:33:10 well opengl will come sooner than that, destinal is working on reversing the graphics libraries Aug 15 03:33:15 Thanks rick Aug 15 03:33:22 he is? Aug 15 03:33:24 RIck: he got the patch put up to enable downloads in 1.1.0. Want to put it up on git? Aug 15 03:33:26 I did not know that Aug 15 03:33:29 rwhitby: no - never got it working quite right Aug 15 03:33:32 Rick_home: were those predevcamp apps? Aug 15 03:33:32 :( Aug 15 03:33:34 sorry Aug 15 03:33:39 It'd be great if everyone rated Breakout and Checkers five starts :) Aug 15 03:33:42 Ratings away Aug 15 03:33:49 those are predev camp apps Aug 15 03:33:54 and I mentored both programmers Aug 15 03:34:03 Yes you did Aug 15 03:34:16 Without Rick there wouldnt be half of the things there are in the app right now. Aug 15 03:34:26 and the feedback is in the precentral app gallery, right? Aug 15 03:34:27 Max helped too :D Aug 15 03:34:33 yeah Aug 15 03:34:54 checker just beat me :-) Aug 15 03:35:14 Hah, I'm a lousy checkers player, it happens all the time Aug 15 03:35:20 I am using $('myWidget').value = 'Ha ha! It worked!'; shouldn't that update the richtextedit? Aug 15 03:35:21 I'm working on adding play modes Aug 15 03:35:40 so, what's the licensing on there two apps? Aug 15 03:35:50 breakout is GPL v2 Aug 15 03:35:50 next, get GNU Go running on the Pre, so I can *really* kill my battery life Aug 15 03:36:33 checkers is CC Aug 15 03:36:50 Someone has already contacted me actually saying the used a major part of it in one of their apps so I am happy about the licensing Aug 15 03:37:36 kesne_: CC derivs allowed or no-derivs? Aug 15 03:38:08 rwhitby: no-derivs, but that was the only option while setting it up :/ Aug 15 03:38:29 I have an idea, lets try to get Checkers and Breakout to the top! :D xD Aug 15 03:38:43 * rwhitby uses the PreLoad app's new preware.org feed support to install both apps from the PreCentral feed. Aug 15 03:40:46 well, I can't rate breakout, since I can't play it easily on the emulator. give it some key bindings and I'm there. Aug 15 03:40:53 rwhitby: is there a reason why icon don't show when browsing the preware feed in preload? Aug 15 03:41:05 kmax12: we're working on it Aug 15 03:41:42 rwhitby: what about support for description and such Aug 15 03:42:10 kmax12: description is already there in the ipkg control file, but no authors seem to set it to anything other than the title of the app. Aug 15 03:42:50 rwhitby: also, the breakout version in Preload isnt the most recent Aug 15 03:43:16 kmax12: the one in PreLoads Aug 15 03:43:26 yep Aug 15 03:43:26 kmax12: the one in PreLoad's access to the PreCentral feed on preware.org? Aug 15 03:43:37 not the PreLoad feed, the PreCentral feed. Aug 15 03:43:58 the precentral feed Aug 15 03:44:05 (PreLoad can now download apps from all three feeds - PimpMyPre, PreCentral and Preware.) Aug 15 03:44:42 (standard formats)++ Aug 15 03:45:14 how often does preware's precentral feed get updated? Aug 15 03:45:41 bbl / afk Aug 15 03:46:46 kmax12: at the moment, daily at 4am, but I will change that to hourly. Aug 15 03:47:13 can you install preload using filecoaster? Aug 15 03:49:11 kmax12: every 15 minutes now. Aug 15 03:49:33 jauderho: via a url, atm preload isnt in precentral's catalog Aug 15 03:50:04 jauderho: no, cause fileCoaster only supports the proprietary PreCentral feed, not the open PreCentral feed or any other open feed. Aug 15 03:50:20 rwhitby: great, as much as I want to support Preload though, filecoaster is just so much more convienent Aug 15 03:50:55 kmax12: yep, users of fileCoaster should petition PreGame to add support for the open standard ipkg feed format Aug 15 03:51:10 then fileCoaster users won't have to miss out on the other feeds that are available. Aug 15 03:51:33 rwhitby: as of now, are there any besides preware? Aug 15 03:51:47 kmax12: precentral, pimpmypre and preware Aug 15 03:52:39 daliclock, for instance, is only available in preware, cause the author provides an ipkg on their web site, and is happy for preware to aggregate it into an open feed. Aug 15 03:52:58 ugh. too many to keep up Aug 15 03:53:09 has there been an app with an effective on screen keyboard? Aug 15 03:53:40 jauderho: if an installer supports the open feed format, then you don't need to care where the author has uploaded the app, cause the installer comes pre-configured with the known feeds. Aug 15 03:55:34 monopolies are almost always bad for innovation - I believe in open interoperable standards so that the author can upload to the single repository of their choice, and be assured that all users get to see their app. Aug 15 03:55:44 Robi_, depends what you be effective Aug 15 03:56:07 s/be/mean by/ Aug 15 03:56:07 egaudet meant: Robi_, depends what you mean by effective Aug 15 03:56:13 well anything like a number pad or some sort of entry system Aug 15 03:56:32 Robi_: i believe one of the hangman apps has an onscreen keyboard Aug 15 03:56:36 Robi_: off the top of my head I know that dope wars has a number pad Aug 15 03:56:45 There's the on-screen keyboard patch for all text fields Aug 15 03:56:51 that too Aug 15 03:56:56 ooh ok Aug 15 03:57:05 i'll take a look Aug 15 03:57:06 egaudet: any updated to it that i can test? Aug 15 03:57:22 gkatsev, not yet working on getting the shift not to lag as much Aug 15 03:57:29 heh, cool Aug 15 03:58:04 can you send text messages with the current mojo sdk? if you can an messaging app with a oskb would be a good solution until egaudet gets his fully functioning Aug 15 03:58:19 I know andriod had chomp sms Aug 15 03:58:31 and steel browser ( web browser with oskb) Aug 15 03:58:58 you can text send basic messages with current oskb Aug 15 04:03:36 Rick, you there? Aug 15 04:05:37 Ahh Aug 15 04:05:39 no! Aug 15 04:07:03 i only see he one hangman Aug 15 04:07:09 with the nouse icon Aug 15 04:07:56 oil: I hear that you'd like to help us get the Preware installer app underway ... Aug 15 04:08:00 yeah Aug 15 04:08:39 the current state is the design wiki page, the fully-populated repos at ipkg.preware.org/feeds, and the ipkgservice. Aug 15 04:08:54 oil: do you have commit privs at gitorious? Aug 15 04:09:02 i registered an account Aug 15 04:09:16 and checked out the installer code Aug 15 04:09:29 usename 'oil' ? Aug 15 04:09:35 yeah Aug 15 04:11:16 there ISN"T any installer code. Aug 15 04:11:20 There's an empty project. Aug 15 04:11:25 I wish there was installer code Aug 15 04:11:30 i realized that after i downloaded it Aug 15 04:11:31 haha Aug 15 04:11:33 but I stoped until we had a service..... Aug 15 04:11:38 which we do now. (I think) Aug 15 04:11:42 Man, this just turned into a useful command in my Makefile - echo 'tail -f /var/log/messages | grep $(APPID)' | novacom -d $(NOVACOM_EMU_ID) open tty:// Aug 15 04:11:51 there _is_ enough of a service to get feeds and ask that things be installed, right? Aug 15 04:12:03 ignoring the whole "add a feed" security discussion for now. Aug 15 04:12:40 Rick_home: I believe so - having an app to test it will really help. Aug 15 04:12:45 nodnod Aug 15 04:13:05 so, the question is, if you are in mojo, HOW DO YOU CALL THE SERVICE which is what I've asked about 11 times. Aug 15 04:13:07 oil: the main thing about actually getting an app working is the app will be the driver for adding more features to the service Aug 15 04:13:15 the other way doesn't really work :) Aug 15 04:13:24 we won't be able to support postinst till we sort out the secure informed user consent helper service Aug 15 04:13:25 yeah Aug 15 04:13:44 fair enough. so how do we call what we have now? Aug 15 04:13:58 specifically, how do we get a list off the service? Aug 15 04:14:11 I'd start by testing it from luna-send.. Aug 15 04:14:15 (don't assume I can read java) Aug 15 04:15:00 * destinal pulls down the service Aug 15 04:15:06 nodnod destinal quietly listening for something that indicates how to do that..... Aug 15 04:15:23 ((yes yes, I know how to type luna-send. but then what? ))) Aug 15 04:15:26 is the service in preware btw? Aug 15 04:15:43 PuffTheMagic: was writing it. Aug 15 04:15:49 I don't KNOW where it is. Aug 15 04:15:56 destinal: yep, it's packaged Aug 15 04:16:21 so its installable. Aug 15 04:16:34 ipkg -o /var something? Aug 15 04:17:02 what am i doing? Aug 15 04:18:00 PuffTheMagic: you're the author of the ipkg service. :) Aug 15 04:18:02 PuffTheMagic: we've got a volunteer to write the app to drive the ipkgservice Aug 15 04:18:22 oil: have you installed the Terminal app on the emulator using the wiki instructions? Aug 15 04:18:29 no Aug 15 04:18:36 it works in the emulator? Aug 15 04:18:39 yes Aug 15 04:18:43 ill go through them then Aug 15 04:18:51 You can see what you can call via the public methods that extend Luna Aug 15 04:18:52 its required for the ipkg service? Aug 15 04:18:53 in the .java Aug 15 04:18:56 no Aug 15 04:18:58 its not Aug 15 04:19:03 oil: it uses the same instructions to set up preware is all Aug 15 04:19:03 oil: i started a mojo app Aug 15 04:19:08 once you've done that, installing the ipkgservice is exactly the same, including running the postinst script manually Aug 15 04:19:10 that talks to my service Aug 15 04:19:13 for reference Aug 15 04:19:19 but the service aint done yet Aug 15 04:19:23 but most of it works Aug 15 04:19:26 nice Aug 15 04:19:30 so you can start working on it Aug 15 04:19:35 the main parts are there Aug 15 04:19:37 which parts work? Aug 15 04:19:39 some of the extras arent yet Aug 15 04:20:10 basic list, update, install, remove should work. postinst, feed management are TBD Aug 15 04:20:19 upgrade should work too Aug 15 04:20:21 list installed, list all, list upgrades, install, remove, Aug 15 04:20:29 list feeds Aug 15 04:20:36 toggle feeds seems to delete the feed Aug 15 04:20:39 instead of renaming it Aug 15 04:20:40 ah, yes, list and toggle feeds is there too Aug 15 04:20:41 i need to fix that Aug 15 04:20:47 toggle is broken Aug 15 04:21:11 and we are still waiting on the confirmation daemon thing Aug 15 04:21:22 but enough it there u can get most of it working Aug 15 04:21:40 those are enough for an alpha release. Aug 15 04:22:11 oil, do those terms make sense to you, we've been talking about this for so long that we've developed a bit of a house jargon Aug 15 04:22:18 uh Aug 15 04:22:19 for the most part Aug 15 04:22:21 ;) Aug 15 04:22:37 i assume calling the service is much like calling palms built in services? Aug 15 04:22:43 yep Aug 15 04:23:13 exactly like calling palm's built in services. Aug 15 04:23:23 since it BECOMES a built in service. :-) Aug 15 04:23:28 yeah Aug 15 04:24:05 and using those is pretty easy Aug 15 04:24:12 oil: how many homebrew apps do you have released now? Aug 15 04:24:18 3? Aug 15 04:24:23 and a towerdefense game i have on hold Aug 15 04:24:28 because balancing it has been a pita Aug 15 04:24:34 rwhitby: since postinst doesn't work in -o /var I think the best way to get running is to Aug 15 04:24:34 ipkg install http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.0.1_all.ipk; reboot Aug 15 04:24:35 ? Aug 15 04:24:58 destinal: see the Terminal app wiki for instructions on how to handle the postinst Aug 15 04:25:17 rwhitby: oh is it updated to just manually run the postinst now? Aug 15 04:25:21 yep Aug 15 04:25:35 ok then I agree the preware / terminal way is best Aug 15 04:25:39 and the prerm to remove the symlinks too Aug 15 04:26:09 Rick_home: I made a start on packaging the installer git repo too Aug 15 04:26:14 postinst is scarry Aug 15 04:26:23 we need need a sandbox Aug 15 04:26:33 destinal: did u ever checkout that link sent you Aug 15 04:26:41 to the gentoo sandbox app? Aug 15 04:26:51 not yet Aug 15 04:27:12 rwhitby: will you make an optware package for something for me Aug 15 04:27:36 PuffTheMagic: sure, and am happy to give you optware commit privs if you want to maintain it Aug 15 04:28:22 So... ipkg -o /var that url then how do you run the postinst? Aug 15 04:28:25 rwhitby: http://dev.gentoo.org/~vapier/dist/sandbox-2.0.tar.lzma Aug 15 04:28:43 an ipk of this for armv7 will go a LONG way for making things safe Aug 15 04:29:04 oil: so once you have the feed -- ipkg install http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.0.1_all.ipk; reboot ; sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Aug 15 04:29:16 oil, what they're talking about is the fact that for preware to install services, it isn't enough to just copy them into place, you have to run a shell script to "do stuff" to the linux system Aug 15 04:29:18 err reboot last Aug 15 04:30:03 ehh installing services are pretty much drop in and resatrt luna Aug 15 04:30:08 and once you say "this app can run a shell script" then the potential exists for an EVIL app to load an EVIL shell script that does anything... anything at all, from rm -r / at the low end, to turning your pre into a spam server at the other... Aug 15 04:30:20 and i think they can be started with out a restarrt of luna also Aug 15 04:30:39 oil: eh, scratch what I said before Aug 15 04:30:47 mixed pastes accidentally Aug 15 04:30:52 so, they've been working on how to make sure that not just ANY evil app can ask the installer service to run just ANY evil script. Aug 15 04:31:02 and it turns out to be a non-trivial problem. Aug 15 04:31:19 PuffTheMagic: so this should work? Aug 15 04:31:22 ipkg -o /var install org.webosinternals.ipkgservice; sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst; pkill LunaSysMgr Aug 15 04:31:33 no there is something even better i think Aug 15 04:31:35 1 sec Aug 15 04:31:55 oil: for the two lines were you added to preware.conf, did you use '>>' on the second one? Aug 15 04:32:15 i was copy/pasting Aug 15 04:32:16 so yes Aug 15 04:32:29 so you have two lines in /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf ? Aug 15 04:32:34 one for 'all' and one for 'i686' ? Aug 15 04:32:47 one line Aug 15 04:33:00 /usr/bin/luna-helper 'luna://com.palm.vm/launch' '{"serviceName":"com.palm.calendar","className":"com.palm.calendar.CalendarService"}' Aug 15 04:33:03 run that Aug 15 04:33:09 oil: you need two lines Aug 15 04:33:24 echo "src/gz all http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all" > /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf Aug 15 04:33:24 echo "src/gz i686 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/i686" >> /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf Aug 15 04:33:24 but switch the com.palm.calendard to the right serice Aug 15 04:33:24 and same with the class path Aug 15 04:33:50 ok Aug 15 04:33:51 oil: echo "src/gz all http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all" > /var/etc/ipkg/preware.conf Aug 15 04:33:52 now there is two Aug 15 04:34:11 ok, now continue with org.webosinternals.ipkgservice install and then run the postinst Aug 15 04:34:26 /usr/bin/luna-helper 'luna://com.palm.vm/launch' '{"serviceName":"org.webosinternals.ipkgservice","className":"org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.IPKGService"}' Aug 15 04:34:28 like that Aug 15 04:34:37 but instead of org.webosinternals.termplugin.postinst Aug 15 04:34:38 its what? Aug 15 04:34:38 oil: (ignore the echo paste I did above, since now you've got two lines) Aug 15 04:34:47 its essentially what in the .service file Aug 15 04:34:49 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Aug 15 04:34:57 PuffTheMagic: cool, that works Aug 15 04:35:24 PuffTheMagic: unfortunately, that only works if the .jar file has been loaded on boot Aug 15 04:35:38 u sure? Aug 15 04:35:40 reboot when done? Aug 15 04:35:44 or is reloading luna enough Aug 15 04:35:53 oil: try this Aug 15 04:36:03 rwhitby: there has to be another command to load the jar then Aug 15 04:36:05 if the .jar file has only just now been installed for the very first time, then the script that runs the java process has to be restarted so that the .jar is in the classpath on the command line Aug 15 04:36:17 oil: /usr/bin/luna-helper 'luna://com.palm.vm/launch' '{"serviceName":"org.webosinternals.ipkgservice","className":"o Aug 15 04:36:17 rg.webosinternals.ipkgservice.IPKGService"}' Aug 15 04:36:28 its easy to edit/append the classpath Aug 15 04:36:41 (err chain those two lines) Aug 15 04:36:43 PuffTheMagic: right - there is an upstart script that needs to be restarted to do it Aug 15 04:36:47 yeah i got that Aug 15 04:36:53 rwhitby: it doesn't need an upstart script Aug 15 04:36:54 but it gave me a service not found error Aug 15 04:37:04 oil: try pkill LunaSysMgr Aug 15 04:37:07 then do it again Aug 15 04:37:07 destinal: how do you get the .jar file in the classpath then? Aug 15 04:37:18 the launch Aug 15 04:37:35 rwhitby: from the sandbox readme file...... Aug 15 04:37:37 same error Aug 15 04:37:39 right, the pkill is the same as doing the upstart script stop and start Aug 15 04:37:43 Sandbox is a library (and helper utility) to run programs in a "sandboxed" Aug 15 04:37:43 environment. This is used as a QA measure to try and prevent applications from Aug 15 04:37:43 modifying files they should not. Aug 15 04:37:52 For example, in the Gentoo world we use it so we can build applications as root Aug 15 04:37:52 and make sure that the build system does not do crazy things outside of its Aug 15 04:37:52 build directory. Such as install files to the live root file system or modify Aug 15 04:37:52 config files on the fly. Aug 15 04:37:54 oil: ok, good to know. hmm, I guess reboot Aug 15 04:38:13 its like fakeroot in debian Aug 15 04:38:20 atleast the emulator reboots faster then the pre Aug 15 04:38:21 destinal: you need to somehow re-run the shell script which sets the classpath for the java process which handles services Aug 15 04:38:28 The way sandbox works is that you prime a few environment variables (in order Aug 15 04:38:28 to control the sandbox's behavior) and then stick it into the LD_PRELOAD Aug 15 04:38:28 variable. Then when the ELF loader runs, it will first load the sandbox Aug 15 04:38:28 library. Whenever an applications makes a library call that we have wrapped, Aug 15 04:38:29 we'll check the arguments against the environment settings. Based on that, any Aug 15 04:38:31 access that is not permitted is logged and we return an error to the Aug 15 04:38:33 application. Any access that is permitted is of course forwarded along to the Aug 15 04:38:36 real C library. Aug 15 04:38:36 rwhitby: yeah you can restart the java helper service Aug 15 04:38:46 PuffTheMagic: ack please stop that Aug 15 04:39:05 destinal: people often argue against that, cause they already had the .jar installed and so the service launch works. Aug 15 04:39:09 ** Message: _response: got response {started: org.webosinternals.ipkgservice} Aug 15 04:39:09 ** Message: _connected client connected Aug 15 04:40:11 so thats what was supposed to happen? Aug 15 04:40:15 oil: yeah Aug 15 04:40:19 awesome Aug 15 04:40:34 oil: u can test the service with luna-send Aug 15 04:40:36 destinal: so it's only the very first time were you didn't have the jar file (any version) on the Pre at boot. Aug 15 04:40:45 yeah, Aug 15 04:40:50 this command Aug 15 04:40:54 initctl stop java-serviceboot; initctl start java-serviceboot Aug 15 04:41:10 right - I'll put that in the postinst for services in preware. Aug 15 04:41:13 PuffTheMagic: you said you had an example app? Aug 15 04:41:37 oil: I don't think we do. Aug 15 04:41:47 just a design for one Aug 15 04:41:48 yeah its in the applications repo Aug 15 04:41:54 its not 100% up to date Aug 15 04:42:01 but it should get you going Aug 15 04:42:06 ok Aug 15 04:42:13 PuffTheMagic: the installer app? Aug 15 04:42:29 oil: org.webosinternals.preware Aug 15 04:42:51 or just preware since rwhitby had to rename everything Aug 15 04:42:57 PuffTheMagic: ah, gotcha. Aug 15 04:43:33 oil: there is model js file that creates the interface to the ipkgservice Aug 15 04:43:43 thats the part that might/could use updating Aug 15 04:43:56 i think i will maintan a copy of that in the ipkgservice dir Aug 15 04:44:04 and have it installed with the service Aug 15 04:44:13 then the app can just refernce it in the sources.json Aug 15 04:44:33 so where is it? Aug 15 04:44:43 applications.git Aug 15 04:45:11 ah Aug 15 04:45:12 ij' Aug 15 04:45:13 ok* Aug 15 04:45:19 http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/preware Aug 15 04:45:43 git clone git@gitorious.org:webos-internals/applications.git Aug 15 04:46:07 I'm packaging it now Aug 15 04:46:20 dont package it Aug 15 04:46:25 its a piece of shit Aug 15 04:46:27 haha Aug 15 04:46:41 packaging, not pushing Aug 15 04:46:43 oil: do you have eclipse setup? Aug 15 04:46:51 yeah Aug 15 04:46:59 its an eclipse project Aug 15 04:47:01 just clone it Aug 15 04:47:03 and import it Aug 15 04:47:03 oil: please set the appinfo.json version from 1.0.0 to 0.0.1 ;-) Aug 15 04:47:06 and start hacking Aug 15 04:47:55 so Aug 15 04:48:01 is that where the app should be Aug 15 04:48:06 or webos-applications/installer? Aug 15 04:48:27 one is an app that Rick started, the other is one that PuffTheMagic started Aug 15 04:48:34 so Aug 15 04:48:36 start my own? Aug 15 04:48:37 xD Aug 15 04:48:55 dont matter Aug 15 04:49:00 I think they both want you to just reuse the preware name and go from there :-) Aug 15 04:49:13 i only pushed it to rick could work on it Aug 15 04:49:18 but he never did ;) Aug 15 04:49:20 so feel free to use the preware dir in the webos-internals applications repo Aug 15 04:49:24 and he created a new repo Aug 15 04:49:28 so use either one Aug 15 04:49:30 or make a new one Aug 15 04:49:37 i will delete mine if u make a new one Aug 15 04:50:09 since it will use a service, we'd usually put it in the webos-internals git project, rather than the webos-applications one. Aug 15 04:50:15 ok Aug 15 04:50:18 ill go off that one Aug 15 04:50:49 rwhitby: they will all be in individual git repos soon anyway Aug 15 04:50:51 so it dont matter Aug 15 04:51:15 PuffTheMagic: yes, but we won't be bringing the ones from webos-applications project over, cause they don't depend on -internals stuff Aug 15 04:51:22 what? Aug 15 04:51:34 every project should have its on git repo regardless Aug 15 04:51:44 just move them all to git.webosinternals.org Aug 15 04:51:48 not the applications *repo*, the webos-applications *project* on gitorious Aug 15 04:52:01 right Aug 15 04:52:04 * PuffTheMagic is confused Aug 15 04:52:05 the one where I've been playing Aug 15 04:52:11 (which is different from the webos-internals *project* on gitorious Aug 15 04:52:21 PuffTheMagic: we have two seperate projects on Gitorious Aug 15 04:52:24 i didnt know u have special repos Aug 15 04:52:28 the one with all the internals stuff Aug 15 04:52:35 and the one with NO INTERNALS STUFF -- pure mojo Aug 15 04:52:42 so whay Aug 15 04:52:45 what Aug 15 04:52:51 they should all have their own git repo Aug 15 04:52:54 on the new server Aug 15 04:52:55 yay Aug 15 04:52:57 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list {} Aug 15 04:53:06 returns fun things Aug 15 04:53:22 installed apps? Aug 15 04:53:32 no, available Aug 15 04:53:32 that lists all apss Aug 15 04:53:33 and some stuff not installed Aug 15 04:53:39 /list_installed Aug 15 04:53:41 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list_installed {} Aug 15 04:53:42 shows all Aug 15 04:53:48 got ya Aug 15 04:53:56 list_upgrades shows what can be upgraded Aug 15 04:54:00 as it shows in the IPKGService model Aug 15 04:54:18 root@qemux86:/opt/bin# luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list_upgrades {} Aug 15 04:54:18 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"errorCode": "ErrorGenericMethodException", "errorText": "You fail!"} Aug 15 04:54:34 lol Aug 15 04:54:43 oil: note that if you add precentral.conf and pimpmypre.conf files to /var/etc/ipkg/conf/ directory, you will get much bigger lists :-) Aug 15 04:54:45 Hi all! I have a question. Can one prototype.handleClick store two this.controller.get? Aug 15 04:54:54 whoa Aug 15 04:54:59 damn dope wars was fun Aug 15 04:55:21 i just lost an hour sucked in making 2mil Aug 15 04:55:24 Maxine_SD: that makes no sense Aug 15 04:55:25 only? Aug 15 04:55:34 destinal, oil: try this: Aug 15 04:55:44 echo "src/gz all http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/precentral" > /var/etc/ipkg/precentral.conf Aug 15 04:55:53 except Aug 15 04:55:54 two >> Aug 15 04:55:56 oops, scratch that Aug 15 04:56:02 echo "src/gz precentral http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/precentral" > /var/etc/ipkg/precentral.conf Aug 15 04:56:18 echo "src/gz pimpmypre http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/pimpmypre" > /var/etc/ipkg/pimpmypre.conf Aug 15 04:56:29 and update Aug 15 04:56:33 run those two lines, and then you have *every* homebrew app in existence available to the service Aug 15 04:56:59 destinal: i bet that error was cause u have no upgrades Aug 15 04:57:08 i probably didnt add all the right checks in that yet Aug 15 04:57:20 root@qemux86:/var/home/root# ipkg -o /var list | wc -l Aug 15 04:57:21 135 Aug 15 04:57:49 152 Aug 15 04:58:07 root@qemux86:/var/home/root# grep Package: /var/usr/lib/ipkg/lists/precentral | wc -l Aug 15 04:58:08 117 Aug 15 04:58:42 oh, I get 142 for all feeds after an update Aug 15 04:58:51 weird, mine just says "successfully terminated".. when I run ipkg -o /var list now Aug 15 04:58:57 but the service gets it fine Aug 15 04:59:00 brb Aug 15 04:59:41 destinal: you running the wrong ipkg command Aug 15 04:59:45 ? Aug 15 04:59:56 ipkg -o /var list ? Aug 15 05:00:13 root@qemux86:/var/usr/lib/ipkg# ipkg -o /var list Aug 15 05:00:13 Successfully terminated. Aug 15 05:00:13 root@qemux86:/var/usr/lib/ipkg# Aug 15 05:00:17 idk i got weird results with it too Aug 15 05:00:20 that's the right command Aug 15 05:00:20 when i was doing testing Aug 15 05:00:31 seems like there are too many places configs can be Aug 15 05:00:39 and i think palm has its own sandbox Aug 15 05:00:48 there is only one place configs are for ipkg -o /var Aug 15 05:00:49 like it can only access stuff in /var Aug 15 05:01:01 i tried using the service using ipkg-opt Aug 15 05:01:02 in /var/etc/ipkg/ Aug 15 05:01:07 and it wouldnt find anything Aug 15 05:01:19 but i could run it from cli and it would Aug 15 05:01:25 so like the opposite of your issue Aug 15 05:01:29 but basically the same Aug 15 05:01:47 destinal: what files do you have in /var/etc/ipkg/*.conf ? Aug 15 05:02:24 and is the second field on every line of every one of those files (excluding arch.conf) unique? Aug 15 05:02:38 arch.conf (-> /etc/ipkg/arch.conf) pimpmypre.conf precentral.conf preware.conf Aug 15 05:02:50 if so, make sure that the Packages file have been correctly downloaded to /var/usr/lib/ipkg/lists/.... Aug 15 05:03:35 (that's all that ipkg -o /var update really does) Aug 15 05:04:02 then ipkg -o /var list should just give you the concatenation of all those files in the lists dir Aug 15 05:06:12 so how does luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list {} work? Aug 15 05:06:22 when running ipkg -o /var list fails? Aug 15 05:06:32 destinal: good question Aug 15 05:06:48 can someone test http://filebin.ca/xfjjme/enable-browser-downloads110.patch and check it in over the top of the existing patch if it works please? Aug 15 05:06:50 oh Aug 15 05:06:51 I know Aug 15 05:06:59 I changed my path, doh Aug 15 05:07:15 heh - I bet /usr/bin/ipkg ... works Aug 15 05:07:22 putting /opt/bin first in my path is the problem Aug 15 05:07:37 yeah Aug 15 05:07:37 yeah, that's why we don't do that for normal users ;-) Aug 15 05:07:50 only for SPECIAL people Aug 15 05:08:03 well I was starting to get annoyed with busybox but I didn't want to thrash it either Aug 15 05:08:38 cd /opt/bin; rm ipkg-opt; mv ipkg ipkg-opt should do it Aug 15 05:09:09 ok, mystery solved then. Aug 15 05:11:37 140 btw Aug 15 05:11:54 I think list includes anything we've installed through other means though and thus the difference Aug 15 05:17:24 yep Aug 15 05:17:35 list includes any manual installs Aug 15 05:18:06 * rwhitby bbl - good luck oil ! Aug 15 05:18:15 lol Aug 15 05:18:20 here goes my weekend xD Aug 15 05:18:24 http://www.mykonosblu.com/images/photo_gallery7.jpg Aug 15 05:19:19 host: '.brickbreaker' is not a legal name (empty label) Aug 15 05:19:19 host: '.carpenterslevel' is not a legal name (empty label) Aug 15 05:19:28 some violations of the revdns standard Aug 15 05:19:45 kmax12: MAX !!! GO FIX YOUR APPS !!!! Aug 15 05:19:51 except he doesn't have commit . Aug 15 05:19:58 he never managed to make his ssh work Aug 15 05:20:03 which feed is that on? Aug 15 05:20:58 Robi_: Pretty room. Why post the link? Aug 15 05:21:45 pretrack and carpenterslevel and brickbreaker, all on precentral Aug 15 05:21:50 and probably a lot more Aug 15 05:22:00 heh - http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/08/palm-pre-finally-gets-that-onscreen-keyboard-no-thanks-to-palm/ Aug 15 05:22:22 so nice i'd thought i'd share Aug 15 05:22:28 "No thanks to Palm" - actually "Thanks to Palm for not hiding all their source code" Aug 15 05:22:29 rwhitby: at least they didn't use a screenshot with "ass" in it Aug 15 05:22:49 and engaget Aug 15 05:22:50 rwhitby: yeah, agree Aug 15 05:22:58 * rwhitby really bbl (couple of hours probably) Aug 15 05:23:00 and someplace else too. Aug 15 05:23:08 bye rwhitby Aug 15 05:23:20 Rick_home: I've got an RSS feed from a google alert for "WebOS Internals" now :-) Aug 15 05:23:50 ohhhh that's a clever idea Aug 15 05:24:01 egaudet: got a LOT of good press today. Aug 15 05:24:15 yourdomain.com palm.com example.com baddflashlight.baddsoftware apps.com are probably all also bad names Aug 15 05:24:18 who was that extremely hot chick doing the ustreams for PreDevCamp? XD Aug 15 05:24:39 aYellowBanana: Adora. She was in the channel earlier. Aug 15 05:24:55 shiiit. I never knew there were really attractive female geeks out there Aug 15 05:25:01 woooww.... Aug 15 05:25:05 *dreamy* Aug 15 05:25:09 haha Aug 15 05:25:17 she's in the precentral vid-casts every monday night live. Aug 15 05:25:40 I'm watching the precentral vid-casts every monday night live..... Aug 15 05:26:06 oil Aug 15 05:26:09 thank you. Aug 15 05:26:15 your welcome? Aug 15 05:26:18 Big relief off my chest. Aug 15 05:26:21 haha Aug 15 05:26:26 no, seriously. Aug 15 05:26:42 I just could NOT get started on this, nor get the team together to do what was just done. Aug 15 05:26:44 thanks you. Aug 15 05:27:13 Rick_home, where Aug 15 05:27:39 oh right yea I'm so out of it right now lol Aug 15 05:27:43 yeah, precentral isn't checking domains at all Aug 15 05:27:59 and we have a lot of palm.com, packages probably because of the private bus thing Aug 15 05:34:42 just saw the gizmodo, cool :) right now I am in a love-hate relationship with the keyboard scroll ability Aug 15 05:35:24 egaudet: brighthand, slashgear and examinar.com all linked directly to the wiki page. Aug 15 05:36:48 and mobilecrunch Aug 15 05:36:52 sweet Aug 15 05:37:10 I was gonna add a bunch of stuff to the wiki earlier but got sidetracked Aug 15 05:38:00 at some point I want to explain all the classes in the CSS that effect the keyboard. Aug 15 05:38:08 heheheheh you'll like this: Aug 15 05:38:10 The team at webOS Internals has modified a pop up menu (accessed when pressing the 'sym' key) to now include letters and symbols and an animation of a puppy playing with a leaf... OK, one of those was possibly made up.) Aug 15 05:38:33 hahaha, i should put the puppy in now Aug 15 05:39:23 http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/palm-pre-s-secret-onboard-keyboard-revealed-626498 Aug 15 05:41:29 By Gareth Beavis Aug 15 05:41:31 :D Aug 15 05:41:38 hehe Beavis Aug 15 05:42:24 "It also seems like the team is looking at integrating some predictive text-style auto correction in future builds, much like that seen on the HTC and Apple iPhone range." Aug 15 05:42:36 who the hell! Aug 15 05:42:38 lol Aug 15 05:43:45 step1: make shit up Aug 15 05:44:12 why do they think it's secret or revealed? Aug 15 05:44:29 no idea Aug 15 05:44:54 they must not understand javascript and that it can be easily edited Aug 15 05:46:03 question on app ownership for the experts. I notice that some homebrew apps have an ownership different than root:root. Is it important? haven't seen any posts regarding that. And this seems a rather obtuse question for the forums. lol Aug 15 05:46:33 talsair: that's probably a mistake in the data.tar.gz inside their archive file Aug 15 05:47:13 I believe file ownership is preserved by tar when called by ipkg to extract those Aug 15 05:47:48 ah. i thought something like that. my concern is if I change it all to root:root the next update will fail because of the funky ownership. Aug 15 05:48:37 it hasn't caused a problem I was just curious. :P Aug 15 05:48:39 we should add instructions for NOT using palm-package Aug 15 05:48:56 there is really no point for it Aug 15 05:48:59 no, it's a mistake as is, fixing it (by chown -R root:root /var/usr/palm/applications) is not going to create any other problems Aug 15 05:49:27 that should have been addressed to talsair Aug 15 05:49:47 coolies. ty :) i figured if I asked that in the forums I'd confuse a whole lot of people. Aug 15 05:50:11 Right now there's a lack of quality control in the existing feeds.. domain names that don't exist, and apparently file ownership issues Aug 15 05:50:43 * Rick_home off to bed Aug 15 05:50:47 gnight all. Aug 15 05:50:57 zzzzzzz Aug 15 05:51:18 destinal: I need you to help me get a cros-compile toolchain built Aug 15 05:51:29 The decision we made earlier is the only way we can go. Aug 15 05:51:41 what decision? Aug 15 05:51:45 we're going to have to go binary on ereader, and that means compiling the fbreader code. Aug 15 05:51:54 i noticed that about domain names. according to the webos-internals the app namingshould be somesort ofreal domain name. i'm so not at the point that I can wrap an app but i'm refreshing and learning....slowly. thanks again. Aug 15 05:51:59 destinal: ah. ok. sure Aug 15 05:52:07 stupid tab completion Aug 15 05:52:10 Rick-zzz: install gentoo Aug 15 05:52:14 Rick-zzz: sure Aug 15 05:52:19 u can get a armv7a toolhain in 1 command Aug 15 05:52:20 :D Aug 15 05:52:21 PuffTheMagic: go soak your yead Aug 15 05:52:52 haters Aug 15 05:53:15 I've used gentoo, I just didn't notice that much amazing superiority :) Aug 15 05:53:19 obviously I was doing something wrong Aug 15 05:53:44 destinal: it not "superior" Aug 15 05:53:58 yeah, I know, just more tightly tunable Aug 15 05:54:00 i mean... its better at handling deps than most distors i've used Aug 15 05:54:06 just messing with you :) Aug 15 05:54:13 and its easier to run latest software Aug 15 05:54:20 and if you hack on code its nice Aug 15 05:54:34 if u just want plug and chug you can use what ever Aug 15 05:55:43 but it does handle things like having 1000 different toolchains nicely Aug 15 05:55:46 native or cross Aug 15 05:55:47 ubuntu is the best of the typical binary distros IMO. the whole upstart thing for instance -- glad palm used that Aug 15 05:56:15 yeah i a fan of ubuntu for ex-windows users Aug 15 05:56:22 at somepoint you want more freedom Aug 15 05:56:25 arch linux is nice Aug 15 05:56:29 upgrade from ubuntu Aug 15 05:56:49 i tried everything under the sun back in the day before i switched to getnoo and stayed with it Aug 15 05:56:54 PuffTheMagic: If I need more freedom I'll generally just pull down source and compile it, not hard Aug 15 05:56:56 and it wasnt about "ricing" Aug 15 05:57:21 destinal: but if u are gonna pull source why not use a distro that has a good pm for handling source Aug 15 05:57:38 if i am gonna build from source its still nice to have a PM to track it Aug 15 05:57:43 fair enough Aug 15 05:57:44 so things can be unsinstalled nicely Aug 15 05:57:57 I started in the pre linux 1.0 days on slackware, talk about a simplistic packaging system :) Aug 15 05:58:00 ebuilds are pretty easy to whip up Aug 15 05:58:29 when i was a linux noob a guru told me to install slackware if i wanted to learn linux Aug 15 05:58:33 i did Aug 15 05:58:35 it helped Aug 15 05:58:42 gentoo install tought me more though Aug 15 05:59:23 its definately not for everyone Aug 15 05:59:31 but if u do any dev work its raelly nice Aug 15 06:00:16 can you habe multiple versions of the same package installed in ubuntu with out conflict? Aug 15 06:00:19 I think like Slackware 1.1, kernel 0.99.. tons and tons of floppies Aug 15 06:00:21 good times Aug 15 06:00:30 i remember the floppy days Aug 15 06:00:32 :D Aug 15 06:00:40 1000 floppys, 4 cd's Aug 15 06:00:59 thank god for cable interernet and live cd's Aug 15 06:01:37 uhhhggggg. Aug 15 06:01:42 2.6.24 is so damn old Aug 15 06:01:45 so much has changed Aug 15 06:01:59 why does palm have to be so slow and private about their kernel work Aug 15 06:02:06 the pre hardware is already out Aug 15 06:02:15 its not like they can have many secrets at this point Aug 15 06:04:06 PuffTheMagic: I hope when the GSM versions of the pre come out we get a lot more hackers. People into open systems are a lot more likely to have GSM phones than CDMA (and ditto for people outside the US) Aug 15 06:05:03 maybe we can get a lot more energy behind some alternative oss stacks for everything Aug 15 06:05:50 night guys. and thanks destinal for answering my question. you don't ever sleep do you. :P Aug 15 06:06:01 talsair: not enough, probably. :) Aug 15 06:06:05 talsair: good night Aug 15 06:06:06 :P Aug 15 06:07:51 I'm thinking about buying a Pre, and I'm wondering what it uses for a windowing system Aug 15 06:07:54 is it X11? Aug 15 06:08:54 no Aug 15 06:09:04 it uses directfb Aug 15 06:09:14 no x11 Aug 15 06:09:19 ah, figures Aug 15 06:09:27 but u could put it on Aug 15 06:09:32 if u wanted all that extra weight Aug 15 06:09:45 or for just shits and giggles Aug 15 06:09:48 has it been done? Aug 15 06:10:01 maybe Aug 15 06:10:16 it would be pretty easy to install a gentoo arm stage3 Aug 15 06:10:25 and build up from there Aug 15 06:10:42 i dont know what other distros would just drop right on Aug 15 06:22:58 sjanssen: the openmoko project would be a good example of something that could work if you wanted an open-source GUI Aug 15 06:23:47 it could be ported to make use of the existing services rather than trying to redo the whole platform Aug 15 06:24:06 Is there a way to stop an x-mojo-elment Scroller from scrolling Aug 15 06:24:09 dynamically Aug 15 06:34:53 destinal: the openmoko stuff is really just the interface i though Aug 15 06:35:03 there would still be some work getting a non palm userland going Aug 15 06:35:25 destinal: I'm not terribly attached to having X on a phone, I was just curious how the software is set up Aug 15 06:35:41 sjanssen: proprietary closed gui that talks directly to frame buffer, etc Aug 15 06:35:58 Puff: freesmartphone.org does kernel, modem interface and basic dbus services Aug 15 06:36:00 but the apps that run on that gui (including vendor supplied ones) are in javascript and other open formats Aug 15 06:36:32 and the services that run under it are mostly java Aug 15 06:36:43 as well as a lot of c / c++ of course Aug 15 06:37:08 but the java stuff has the advantage of being readable Aug 15 06:37:24 Java, or JavaScript? Aug 15 06:37:28 java Aug 15 06:37:37 readable with disassembly? Aug 15 06:37:37 javascript for the apps that run ON luna (the gui) Aug 15 06:37:51 java = readable by decompilation (jd-gui) Aug 15 06:37:54 right Aug 15 06:38:14 jd-gui is nice Aug 15 06:38:39 what a crazy age we live in that consumer phones run not one, but two interpreted languages :) Aug 15 06:39:04 three - bourne shell Aug 15 06:39:18 four - upstart Aug 15 06:39:57 not to mention xml Aug 15 06:40:20 not that that's exactly a programming language, but a similar parsing overhead Aug 15 06:42:53 not to mention DBUS, which is just IPC built on top of IPC Aug 15 06:49:01 how can you add a numeric value taken in from a textfield (this.model['num']) with another textfield number? I tried parseInt(this.model['num']) but that doesn't work Aug 15 06:55:56 destinal: once the gsm pre is released, the freesmartphone.org guys (who are mostly ex-mot-phone hackers) will be all over it replacing webos completely. Aug 15 06:57:08 rwhitby: for stability I'd rather like to try using the existing stack with the exception of luna and just hooking another gui into the hooks provided Aug 15 06:57:25 all the underlying stuff is solid, why not use it? Aug 15 06:58:01 PuffTheMagic will tell you why - it's not the latest and greatest kernel Aug 15 06:58:18 rwhitby: well that's easily enough fixed without eliminating the rest of the architecture Aug 15 06:58:34 well, easy enough for guys with those skills Aug 15 06:58:43 destinal: maybe not, if there's enough binaries that are tied to kernel versions Aug 15 06:58:54 has anyone tried with the latest kernel? Aug 15 06:58:56 (dunno if that's the case or not) Aug 15 06:59:16 PuffTheMagic is working on that now. Aug 15 06:59:16 I don't imagine they would be Aug 15 07:00:05 And Joey Hess has a Pre (since his blog got world-wide attention to the privacy situation more than three weeks after we talked about it here), so the Pre will have native Debian on it soon enough. Aug 15 07:01:00 destinal: actually, having the rootfs compiled for Pre and Emulator does lessen the chance of those things significantly Aug 15 07:02:59 rwhitby: he's doing a lot of things in a debian chroot environment (including running daemons there) Aug 15 07:04:51 destinal: he's on the debian installer team, so he'll be working on a native port Aug 15 07:05:06 (maybe he's waiting to get a second device) Aug 15 07:18:45 I want a second one now just because it seems to be a really cheap featureful OMAP dev board / platform :) Aug 15 07:21:02 i wish i understood the excitement about running newer kernels. heh Aug 15 07:21:52 epv: I imagine it's a means to an end, running a new kernel just to run a new kernel.. Aug 15 07:22:00 epv: +1 Aug 15 07:22:06 i suppose. Aug 15 07:30:24 On a lark, I'm currently working on the insane task of making the emulator more like a pre, by which I mean, sound, multitouch, accelerometer, virtual buttons and led's, and other bizarre things Aug 15 07:32:03 as some of you may have noticed I have an inability to stay focused on individual tasks when there's so much unexplored space Aug 15 07:33:27 haha Aug 15 07:33:30 Does anybody know of a way to disable a scroller dynamically? Aug 15 07:34:28 egaudet: I think nobody does Aug 15 07:37:22 :( Aug 15 07:38:08 the scene scroller? or some other scroller? Aug 15 07:40:21 widget. I got a x-mojo-element="Scroller" div that pops up and I want to dynamically stop the scrolling ability Aug 15 07:41:20 I could disable the scene scroller though? Aug 15 07:41:25 yeah Aug 15 07:41:44 idk if you can once its loaded Aug 15 07:42:13 this.controller.stageController.pushScene({name: 'sceneName', disableSceneScroller: true}); Aug 15 07:43:40 as far as a scroller widget Aug 15 07:43:48 you might try setting its mode to something that isn't supported Aug 15 07:43:51 like false or something Aug 15 07:57:41 good night, all Aug 15 07:57:43 * destinal goes into sleep mode. Aug 15 07:57:48 later Aug 15 08:06:02 hmm I guess I will have to re render Aug 15 08:06:22 setMode(false) didn't work? Aug 15 08:07:22 I'm not sure how to get my widget controller Aug 15 08:07:32 setMode() is a widget controller function yes? Aug 15 08:07:39 yeah Aug 15 08:08:00 this.controller.get('widgetId').mojo.setMode(false);? Aug 15 08:08:39 The widget got instantiated via instantiateChildWidgets Aug 15 08:08:55 should the "widgetId" just be the div id? Aug 15 08:09:04 yeah Aug 15 08:10:09 (granted, i have no clue if that will work) Aug 15 08:10:13 but i figure its worth a shot Aug 15 08:16:10 hmm nope Aug 15 08:16:21 then idk how to stop it :/ Aug 15 08:16:39 I guess i just have to re instantiate the widgets minus the scroller Aug 15 08:18:20 ahh well at this point I'll take what works so re render it is Aug 15 08:31:57 Hey anyone awake, can help me out? I'm trying to enable cpu scaling, trying this step root@castle:/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/ondemand# echo 30 > ./up_threshold but can't seem to find a file for up_threshold to modify Aug 15 08:33:57 wait a minute. i'm a moron Aug 15 09:10:28 Eisnerguy1 wiki * r4386 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Eisnerguy1 - New page: == Apps by [http://forums.precentral.net/members/eisnerguy1.html eisnerguy1] == [[Application:MobiOS]] Aug 15 09:17:50 hmm - I think that should just be moved to that user's page. Aug 15 09:20:48 heh - it already was duplicated at the user's page. deleted the borderline spam. Aug 15 09:46:36 oil: I've added the 'info' method to ipkgservice Aug 15 09:48:25 oil: look for version 0.0.2 in the feed Aug 15 09:49:12 luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/info {"package":"org.webosinternals.terminal"} Aug 15 09:49:12 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"Size":"6934","Section":"web","Package":"org.webosinternals.terminal","Depends":"org.webosinternals.termplugin","Filename":"org.webosinternals.terminal_0.1.7_all.ipk","MD5Sum":"831daa3127877478738f8b45951970f0","Status":"install user installed","Architecture":"all","Installed-Size":"13569","Version":"0.1.7","Maintainer":"WebOS Internals ","Source":"git://gitorious.or Aug 15 09:49:17 g/webos-internals/applications.git","Description":"Terminal"} Aug 15 11:28:14 good question mikepre, which are you referring to? Aug 15 12:18:27 I must be the only person who got online at 7am on the east coast. I do have a question regarding patch application, quilt, and manually applying patches when someone has had their coffee. Aug 15 12:36:11 morning ron001 Aug 15 12:36:21 saddly, I am the wrong person for that. :-( Aug 15 12:38:10 I don't really know enough about patch applications Aug 15 12:38:20 and 'mornin Aug 15 12:38:32 ron001: have you read the quilt documentation linked at the top of the Applying_Patches page? Aug 15 12:39:53 good morning all Aug 15 12:40:23 yes. Question is...what happens if you try to run a patch that was manually modified in the first place. I had early on manually added the add/del launcher pages mod, and now am trying to make all go through quilt Aug 15 12:40:51 so do I need to remove it manually, and then add it back with the quilt patch Aug 15 12:40:54 ron001: you should start quilt with a virgin set of files Aug 15 12:41:39 if your manual modification exactly matches a patch, you can always use patch -R to reverse apply it. If it doesn't match exactly that will just make things worse. Aug 15 12:42:53 I could always make a backup of the file first Aug 15 12:43:55 your best bet is to restore the files you changed from the webos doctor, and then start with quilt Aug 15 12:45:04 I only have this 1 mod that does not use quilt Aug 15 13:55:51 rwhitby: u get anywhere with making an ipk for sandbox... Aug 15 13:55:58 i want to do some programming this am Aug 15 13:56:33 * Templarian thinks nothing like scripting hung over. Aug 15 14:04:29 nice... Aug 15 14:04:41 the Section on the preware feed is wrong and useless Aug 15 14:05:02 Section: web <-------------- web should not be here Aug 15 14:05:08 this should be the category Aug 15 14:05:28 if we dont put the category here we have no way supporting categories in the preware program Aug 15 14:08:00 PuffTheMagic: isn't that feed standard? You would have to use the xml feed if you wanted the other stuff I believe. Aug 15 14:08:28 we dont "need" to put web/native in the Section section Aug 15 14:08:41 since web/native is only for Plam apps Aug 15 14:08:46 someone decided on this Aug 15 14:08:48 with out talking Aug 15 14:08:52 it over Aug 15 14:09:17 precentral seems to do it right Aug 15 14:10:05 well Aug 15 14:10:11 most of their Sections say misc Aug 15 14:10:23 but there is no reason we need xml for categories Aug 15 14:10:38 people just need to use the Section field for that Aug 15 14:11:23 As long as it won't mess up anything on the others. Aug 15 14:11:43 well we should tell the others also Aug 15 14:11:52 to put something meaningfull in that field Aug 15 14:12:07 cause putting web or misc for everythign is a waste Aug 15 14:14:24 well this sure puts a kink in my plans for what I was gonna do this am Aug 15 14:14:39 i was supposed to mail oil some extensions on the service Aug 15 14:14:46 a function to list all the categories Aug 15 14:15:10 and then a function that takes a category as an argument and list only the packages in that category Aug 15 14:17:27 You can still do that just filter the sections and asign misc if they are not valid. Aug 15 14:17:34 assign* Aug 15 14:17:58 i dont have to assign anything, i am just gonna return whats in that field Aug 15 14:18:10 we are just gonna have 2 categories right now ;) Aug 15 14:18:21 "web" and "misc" Aug 15 14:18:31 till somsone starts updating the feed Aug 15 14:18:34 feeds Aug 15 14:19:35 Templarian: the pre supports cloud/mesh networking right? Aug 15 14:19:53 dot-game should get expanded to multi player across pres Aug 15 14:19:55 :D Aug 15 15:04:56 PuffTheMagic: just finished the packaging, pushing the 'ebuild' (sandbox.mk) to the autobuilder now Aug 15 15:05:32 rwhitby * r10561 optware/trunk/ (Makefile make/sandbox.mk) - sandbox: Sandbox is a library (and helper utility) to run programs in a sandboxed environment. Aug 15 15:05:48 thanks Aug 15 15:05:52 that will help Aug 15 15:06:13 I'll push the autobuilder manually to get it to the feed for you before I go to bed Aug 15 15:06:29 rwhitby: u see my comments about the Section field... its really being wasted with native/web right now Aug 15 15:06:49 I think that's what palm-package puts in there Aug 15 15:07:10 :/ Aug 15 15:07:24 all the pimpmypre and precentral feeds has misc in there Aug 15 15:07:49 does the validator check to make sure that part of the appinfo.json is web or native Aug 15 15:07:56 ah, so probably palm-package does misc, and our preware packager does 'web' Aug 15 15:07:56 or can we stick anything in there Aug 15 15:08:08 ehhh idk Aug 15 15:08:30 but if "we" have our own packager we should put something useful in there Aug 15 15:08:40 and then try and get others to follow Aug 15 15:08:44 I dunno what appinfo.json requires. None of the ipkg tools look at that. Aug 15 15:08:54 yeah i know the ipks dont Aug 15 15:09:03 but i think the validator in the sdk might check Aug 15 15:09:06 ipkg itself only allows a fixed set of Section: values Aug 15 15:09:18 what? really? Aug 15 15:09:43 my "dynamic" feed from my website puts in real categoreis Aug 15 15:09:50 and that feed works fine with ipkg Aug 15 15:10:01 and if you look at other non-palm ipkg feeds Aug 15 15:10:07 they all have real categories in there too Aug 15 15:10:50 ah, scratch that. ipkg doesn't actually force any Section values, it just suggests a set of values in the error message if you don't set them. Aug 15 15:10:54 so we can put what we like. Aug 15 15:11:00 good :D Aug 15 15:11:05 then we dont need xml yet Aug 15 15:11:14 echo "The Section field should have one of the following values:" >&2 Aug 15 15:11:14 echo "admin, base, comm, editors, extras, games, graphics, kernel, libs, misc, net, text, web, x11" >&2 Aug 15 15:11:32 where is that from? Aug 15 15:11:34 palm? Aug 15 15:11:41 from ipkg-build script, not from Palm Aug 15 15:11:54 who's script is that Aug 15 15:11:57 so it's a convention, and not one that is relevant for webos apps Aug 15 15:12:01 the ipkg dev people? Aug 15 15:12:32 I think PreCentral is setting up Categories for the homebrew apps. we should just follow that if it makes sense. Aug 15 15:12:43 and not something that is even enforced by ipkg since I know other stuff works in there Aug 15 15:12:53 rwhitby: we already have our 10 categories Aug 15 15:12:58 ipkg-build is from the ipkg-utils package, which is from the ipkg authors. Aug 15 15:13:04 ahh Aug 15 15:13:06 well anyway Aug 15 15:13:19 in the service i am just gonna parse out the Section field Aug 15 15:13:27 and use that to make a category list for the app Aug 15 15:13:29 but the values they have defined are for general linux userspace apps, not relevant for webos apps. Aug 15 15:13:46 who is "they" Aug 15 15:14:00 the ipkg authors, in the ipkg-build script Aug 15 15:14:24 yeah we dont have to worry about the ipkg authors here Aug 15 15:14:28 agreed Aug 15 15:14:43 since it's not used anywhere in the code Aug 15 15:14:58 rwhitby: so I am gonna use Section for categories in the ipkgservice Aug 15 15:15:01 so nothing can break as a result Aug 15 15:15:01 spread the word Aug 15 15:15:15 so that the other sites start putting meaningfull categories in there Aug 15 15:15:56 well, we'll either need to align with PreCentral, or get them to align with the 10 categories you've defined, or come to some agreement on a combination or superset. Aug 15 15:15:59 hello, i am havin issues trying to root my pre, can anybody help?I get an error when trying to run this command sh optware-bootstrap.sh Aug 15 15:16:15 deto: please pastebin the log file from /tmp Aug 15 15:16:30 rwhitby: it dont matter how many categores there are "really" the ipkgservice can detect them all Aug 15 15:16:41 having a static list of categories is more for our website Aug 15 15:16:47 since the mockup was static Aug 15 15:16:53 and i followed that in the site i was making Aug 15 15:17:03 but in reality it could expand Aug 15 15:17:37 it dont matter to the ipkgservice, cause its only gonna return a list of used categories Aug 15 15:17:54 PuffTheMagic: I'll see if I can get PreCentral to put the category in their open xml feed, so I can work out how to pass it through to the Packages file. Aug 15 15:18:05 Similarly for PimpMyPre Aug 15 15:18:15 what does their xml feed have to do with this? Aug 15 15:18:16 sry but im a nub to all of this can elaborate a bit more? Aug 15 15:18:23 or are u generating their feed for them? Aug 15 15:18:49 PuffTheMagic: I'm generating the feed for everyone on ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ Aug 15 15:19:14 script are in the preware repo Aug 15 15:19:39 at the moment, it just downloads the ipkgs and runs ipkg-make-index Aug 15 15:20:02 i didn tknow of any of these ipkg utils Aug 15 15:20:06 in the future, it will need to merge additional information (like homepage and icon url) which is not in the ipkg file itself Aug 15 15:21:00 PuffTheMagic: sorry, I thought I'd pointed out the Makefiles that created the preware feed Aug 15 15:21:30 deto: look in /tmp - there will be an optware-bootstrap.log file there. Aug 15 15:22:07 deto: go to http://webos.pastebin.com, and then paste the contents of that file into the page at webos.pastebin.com, then tell us the url that it gives you Aug 15 15:22:27 PuffTheMagic: sandbox is now in the optware cs08q1armel feed Aug 15 15:22:36 cool thanks Aug 15 15:22:40 I'll push it to the i686g25 feed for the emulator too Aug 15 15:23:00 secure postinst's here we come Aug 15 15:23:04 PuffTheMagic: untested. Aug 15 15:23:25 it compiled and packaged, I haven't tried to run it. Aug 15 15:23:51 i will give it a test Aug 15 15:23:58 once its in the emu feed Aug 15 15:23:59 ok, it's in the i686g25 feed now too Aug 15 15:24:04 k Aug 15 15:25:29 looks like three main files: /opt/bin/sandbox, /opt/lib/libsandbox.so and /opt/etc/sandbox.conf Aug 15 15:25:46 and /opt/etc/sandbox.d/00default Aug 15 15:26:02 I should mark sandbox.conf as a conffile I guess Aug 15 15:26:18 PuffTheMagic: would the 00default file normally be edited by a human? Aug 15 15:26:32 idk i've never setup sandbox from scract Aug 15 15:26:36 it comes default on gentoo Aug 15 15:26:44 cause it uses it to wrap their packagemanager Aug 15 15:26:51 ok, have fun. I'm off to bed. Aug 15 15:26:53 so i will have to play with it a little Aug 15 15:26:55 night Aug 15 15:26:55 thanks Aug 15 15:27:05 not havin any luck finding the file Aug 15 15:27:52 PuffTheMagic: BTW, was the info method I added to ipkgservice ok? Aug 15 15:28:28 yeah i saw it, looked fine Aug 15 15:28:28 deto: what's the error it reports then - we don't have a crystal ball ;-) Aug 15 15:28:34 using it now for the categories list Aug 15 15:28:51 glad you added getInfo help function Aug 15 15:28:59 so i can use that method in other functions Aug 15 15:29:23 I just followed the existing structure. I'm not one for much original thought ;-) Aug 15 15:30:18 * rwhitby bbt Aug 15 15:30:25 ;) Aug 15 15:30:27 night Aug 15 16:43:08 # luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list_categories {} Aug 15 16:43:08 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"categories":["misc","web","libs"]} Aug 15 16:43:11 :D Aug 15 16:49:44 Puff any idea what would cause my phone to just go offline and stay offline? Aug 15 16:55:08 Ikyo: None, but it's happened to me before. Just had to reboot Aug 15 16:55:42 yeah, it is weird....did reinstalling do anything? Aug 15 16:56:52 Ikyo: people in the forum say it's due to the phone not disconnecting properly. Didn't bother reinstalling, haven't had the issue (like that) since. Aug 15 16:57:25 what is offline? Aug 15 16:57:55 PreGame: In my case, zero dail tone, no incoming or outgoing. Just dead air. Aug 15 16:58:06 i can't seem to get javascript to recognize all of the this objects in the timer function Aug 15 16:58:08 any ideas? Aug 15 16:58:17 yea, try a reboot Aug 15 17:07:47 PreGame, what do you mean Aug 15 17:08:55 Ikyo: what do u mean offline? Aug 15 17:09:08 do you mean loose signal with sprint? Aug 15 17:09:14 like over evdo? Aug 15 17:09:41 that has happened to me before Aug 15 17:09:47 i just toggle airplane mode Aug 15 17:09:49 seems to fix it Aug 15 17:09:55 i think there is a bug in the PM code Aug 15 17:10:10 yeah, it isn't coming back on at all Aug 15 17:10:15 I have tried rebooting it Aug 15 17:10:56 okay, it came on that time Aug 15 17:11:08 I am glad that I am not the only one this happens too. Aug 15 17:11:36 so do you think reseting the device will help or it is just a bug Aug 15 17:11:52 just a bug Aug 15 17:11:56 when i sit on my phone Aug 15 17:11:59 and it cant get signal Aug 15 17:12:02 is there anyway to replace a single file from the recovery kit without running the whole thing? I'd like to get my origonal /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-applauncher/app/controllers/launcher-assistant.js back Aug 15 17:12:08 i think it goes into a powersaving state Aug 15 17:12:13 and it dont come out of it Aug 15 17:12:23 ron001: no Aug 15 17:12:28 you should create a backup Aug 15 17:12:31 of the whole thing Aug 15 17:12:35 before u start hacking Aug 15 17:12:37 so I have learned! Aug 15 17:12:59 it works, it just wanted to use the patch and not manually edit it Aug 15 17:13:10 the patch is giving me errors applying Aug 15 17:13:22 Puff have you tried the phone radio off/on patch? Aug 15 17:13:30 nope Aug 15 17:13:37 the manual edit is working though Aug 15 17:13:49 i dont see a point in that patch Aug 15 17:13:57 i bought the phone so i can have a phone Aug 15 17:14:18 I was going to put it in for cases liek this Aug 15 17:38:24 grrr Aug 15 17:38:33 palm made it harder to delete the nfl and nascar app Aug 15 17:39:55 haha Aug 15 17:40:02 i'm guessing they have the directory protected Aug 15 17:40:07 i see some .sh scripts in there Aug 15 17:40:13 man, the news articles about this "newly discovered" privacy violation are amusing Aug 15 17:40:25 link? Aug 15 17:40:37 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ybenjamin/detail?entry_id=45576 Aug 15 17:40:44 this is one of the worst Aug 15 17:40:45 Yeah I love the "Palm has been watching your every move" distortion Aug 15 17:41:02 "palm pre constantly radios your location 24 hours a day, wearing down your battery!" Aug 15 17:41:03 etc. Aug 15 17:41:28 Not to mention they're all crafted around the phone watches you all the time logic and completely ignore to tell the reading audience that when you first boot up the Pre it asks you whether or not you mind if Palm collects data from you Aug 15 17:41:48 i'm also wondering why there was never this uproar about android, which actually *does* what they're saying Aug 15 17:42:06 epv, Apple funded PR Aug 15 17:42:12 heh., Aug 15 17:42:28 Apple needs something to cover up the fact they recently called their users who jailbreak Terrorists, Drug Dealers and Ruiners of AT&T's network Aug 15 17:42:29 this guy seems barely able to form an english sentence Aug 15 17:42:35 haha Aug 15 18:07:33 epv, look at that article's comments now ;) Aug 15 18:09:05 hahaha yay. Aug 15 18:16:10 MF Aug 15 18:16:24 you delete the nfl and nascar apps and they get re-added automatically Aug 15 18:16:25 FML Aug 15 18:16:57 haha that's bizarre Aug 15 18:18:12 can you chmod their folders to read only, set them to invisible and stuff? Aug 15 18:19:05 even better Aug 15 18:19:11 symlink them to /dev/null Aug 15 18:19:45 you can make a file unchangeable even by root with "chattr +i filename" Aug 15 18:20:03 symlink + chattr combo ftw Aug 15 18:20:05 :D Aug 15 18:20:59 i would rather find the service that is re-adding them and remove that Aug 15 18:21:40 ++ Aug 15 18:21:48 but for now i think the /dev/null shoudl work Aug 15 18:21:54 i dont think they delete the dir first Aug 15 18:21:59 i dont know how to do that Aug 15 18:22:23 rm -rf com.handson.app.nascar; ln -s /dev/null com.handson.app.nascar Aug 15 18:22:35 i see some .sh files in the nfl dir so i'm sure they have a service executing things Aug 15 18:23:00 well my nfl is gone and aint comming back now Aug 15 18:23:18 I deleted the nascar app and it has yet to come back Aug 15 18:24:57 actually Aug 15 18:25:04 using rm -rf will work Aug 15 18:25:10 no need to ln to dev/null Aug 15 18:25:34 but if you use the palm-install.bat -r or palm://com.palm.appinstaller/remove it will remove it then re-add it Aug 15 18:33:32 is the dev for dotgame and blocked in here Aug 15 18:33:42 or is he just a precentral person Aug 15 18:38:37 someone should make a pre to pre app transfer tool Aug 15 18:40:27 PuffTheMagic: is there a fast way to make a bluetooth PAN with another pre, or do you mean over EVDO? Aug 15 18:40:50 well i was thinking more along the lines of mesh networks Aug 15 18:40:56 with wifi or something Aug 15 18:41:00 but bt would work too Aug 15 18:41:31 maybe i will stop fucking with the kernel and start getting bluez shit working correctly Aug 15 18:41:32 :D Aug 15 18:41:54 well i still should get a working .24 built Aug 15 18:41:56 that has all features Aug 15 18:42:03 well the existing stack already has bluetooth PAN profile Aug 15 18:42:18 so bluez (while I want it for HID stuff) isn't needed for copying things Aug 15 18:42:59 it'd still be nice to have the obex stuff so you could interoperate with other phones and stuff Aug 15 18:43:05 yeah Aug 15 18:43:16 and running obexd gives us a bt dbus service for free Aug 15 18:43:23 so it will be dead simple Aug 15 18:43:36 oh have you tried running obexd? Aug 15 18:43:44 i use it on my laptop Aug 15 18:43:51 for obex stuff Aug 15 18:43:58 since it actually supports obex opp Aug 15 18:44:07 which bluez-utils does not Aug 15 18:44:16 but since its dbus based Aug 15 18:44:25 all we need to do it add it to optware and run it basically Aug 15 18:44:36 then mojo apps and use it Aug 15 18:50:35 PmBtStack seems ot have Obex calls in it Aug 15 18:50:38 s/ot/to/ Aug 15 18:50:38 destinal meant: PmBtStack seems to have Obex calls in it Aug 15 18:53:03 bbl Aug 15 19:19:44 Is it normal that orientation change events come twice? Aug 15 19:32:29 destinal: CONFIG_GPIO_KEYS_CONSOLE_TRIGGER: Aug 15 19:32:35 that is in the kernel config Aug 15 19:32:43 :D Aug 15 19:36:17 egaudet: seems like the keyboard doesnt work in the email app for typing sender. Aug 15 19:40:15 gkatsev, yea doesn't work in any search fields (yet) Aug 15 19:40:28 ah, ok Aug 15 20:09:49 woohoo, just got my rebate check from sprint Aug 15 20:17:43 bbl Aug 15 20:24:29 *sits down* Aug 15 20:24:46 OK, before I start on what is likely going to be a project that causes me lots of lost sleep... Aug 15 20:24:50 is anyone else working on a theming app? Aug 15 20:28:13 ok guys a serious question :) Aug 15 20:28:21 look in #webos :D Aug 15 20:29:03 yjsy'd noy drlgidh sy sll Aug 15 20:41:02 when i run sh optware-bootstrap.sh i get an error can anybody help? Aug 15 20:41:14 might want to post the error Aug 15 20:42:12 i just did on the webos.pastebin.com Aug 15 20:42:48 what else do i need to do in order to get some help? Aug 15 20:43:44 well im no pro here, but are you trying to do this on the emulator or to an actual PRE? Aug 15 20:44:09 actual pre Aug 15 20:44:29 im trying to root my pre Aug 15 20:44:36 Ok nevermind, I had a similar issue and it was because I didn't add the extra drive Aug 15 20:48:09 does anyone know which marvel chip is on the pre Aug 15 20:48:11 for wireless Aug 15 20:51:13 Marvell 88W8686 SDIO/GSPI Aug 15 20:51:20 is it the SDIO or GSPI version Aug 15 20:51:21 ? Aug 15 20:51:28 i need to know which firmware to use Aug 15 20:55:29 when i run sh optware-bootstrap.sh i get an error can anybody help? Aug 15 21:19:14 jhova_ what is the error you are getting? Aug 15 21:19:23 at what step does the error occur? Aug 15 21:33:19 geist: ping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Aug 15 21:34:50 hey does anybody have any idea why 'aplay Aug 15 21:35:05 -Dhw:0,0 soundfile' crashes the phone? Aug 15 21:35:37 it does play the sound first though. Aug 15 21:38:04 jjonez: no idea why, but that happened to me also Aug 15 21:41:25 epv: pita, since it happens with pjsip too Aug 15 21:42:28 cause the pre userland doesnt not have alsa libs? Aug 15 21:43:24 it works, but then crashes Luna. if there were no alsa libs, the alsa utilities for playing audio wouldn't work at all Aug 15 21:43:50 morning Aug 15 21:44:09 rwhitby: so sandbox is gonna need a little tweaking Aug 15 21:44:18 so if you want to set me up to admin it you can Aug 15 21:44:34 also what is the status of gitosis Aug 15 21:44:45 i would like to start moving some projects over to the new repo Aug 15 21:48:05 env: i think it's more that just stopping Luna since you can do that with a command and still have ssh access Aug 15 21:48:28 i lose my connection so i think it's hard reset Aug 15 21:50:15 PuffTheMagic: ok, for optware commit we use svn and SSL client certificates, so I'll email you to get the details for one of those. Aug 15 21:51:19 oil: ipkgservice 0.0.3 ipkg ready for you Aug 15 21:51:43 who is bumping the versions on that? Aug 15 21:51:51 which reminds me Aug 15 21:52:02 we need a "appinfo.json" like thing for plugins/services Aug 15 21:52:09 for versions and what not Aug 15 21:52:59 PuffTheMagic: I did it then, but have taught oil how to get a new version built whenever he needs it. Aug 15 21:53:18 agreed on plugins and services knowing their versions and reporting them as a method. Aug 15 21:53:19 yeah i told him to just checkout out the repo and run 'ant jar' Aug 15 21:53:20 then scp it Aug 15 22:07:25 hey guys :) Aug 15 22:07:36 hi aYellowBanana Aug 15 22:07:47 how are you rwhitby? Aug 15 22:08:15 I'm happy that we have oil on board to do the Preware installer client app :-) Aug 15 22:08:33 I knew that was coming! :D Aug 15 22:08:42 there always needs to be a GUI front end for packages..... xD Aug 15 22:10:36 hey, does anyone have any information on where I can get started on unlocking phones? Aug 15 22:10:52 and I don't mean downloading an easy 123 tool to do it, I mean learning how to actually unlock one Aug 15 22:10:53 :) Aug 15 22:13:45 aYellowBanana: there's a channel on efnet where that happens I believe. and forums on mobile-files.com - we prefer people use those existing forums rather than using this channel for that topic. Aug 15 22:14:18 thanks rwhitby, I didn't mean to cloud this channel, I just thought that the people in this crowd have a wide range of knowledge, and it appears I'm right :) Aug 15 22:14:27 thank you, I'll make sure to start there. Have a great day Aug 15 22:14:31 no probs Aug 15 22:14:52 there's just gonna be a flood of unlocking stuff when the gsm pre is released, and we don't want to deal with it here :-) Aug 15 22:15:09 hahaha, I can't wait! :D Aug 15 22:15:27 ok, was that a direct diss to me by oil? >_> Aug 15 22:15:45 no, he was talking to me in a private chat and I think he pasted too much Aug 15 22:18:19 and one last question, what would you say is the best online store for unlocked GSM phones? I'm planning to get something along the lines of the Touch HD, or the Omnia HD Aug 15 22:19:18 aYellowBanana: no idea. I live in a progressive country where carriers sell unlocked GSM phones :-) Aug 15 22:19:38 * aYellowBanana slams forehead into desk Aug 15 22:19:41 I am jealous of you >_> Aug 15 22:19:58 don't be too jealous. we don't have unlimited data plans. Aug 15 22:20:20 aha :( Aug 15 22:20:29 where do you live? :) Aug 15 22:20:40 .au Aug 15 22:21:01 ah. cool Aug 15 22:38:16 PuffTheMagic: i pushed in the code Aug 15 22:38:22 rwhitby, oil, PuffTheMagic: I think we start out by making feed addition via package files for now, ie we add a precentral-feed package and a pimpmypre-feed to the preware feed Aug 15 22:38:24 if you wanted to see how the scrollfades work Aug 15 22:38:42 destinal: yeah, good plan Aug 15 22:41:37 evening Aug 15 22:56:51 How many people have had the issue that their Pre will be fully functional except that the cel portion is off? I am trying to see if this is fairly common or not many people have had the issue. Aug 15 23:04:04 related to battery? Aug 15 23:05:54 It is the stock battery and the Pre is still on. Just the cel portion is off. Aug 15 23:10:38 It would be like installing the phone radio patch and using it to turn the radio off, but it won't turn back on. Aug 15 23:15:15 i've never had that happen Aug 15 23:47:39 anyone manage to get the download manager to execute in the emulator? Aug 15 23:49:34 AnOutsider: you mean the palm app store? Aug 15 23:50:13 nope, i mean writing an app Aug 15 23:50:33 errorText: com.palm.downloadmanager is not running. Aug 15 23:50:50 googling that error, seems no one has had luck getting a call to the dlmanager service to work in the emulator Aug 15 23:56:05 AnOutsider: public or private bus? Aug 15 23:57:07 I honestly don't understand what you mean by that ;) Aug 15 23:57:15 AnOutsider: that's probably your issue Aug 15 23:57:50 perhaps have a link with some background info on what I'm missing? Aug 15 23:57:55 I know it's not a documented service Aug 15 23:58:30 eh, I don't know if the public bus vs private bus distinction is written up anywhere. I'll look Aug 15 23:58:35 but to test it, try this: Aug 15 23:58:46 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.downloadmanager/someMethod {} Aug 15 23:58:53 that works Aug 15 23:58:58 if I go in via SSH and run it Aug 15 23:58:59 right, that's over the private bus Aug 15 23:59:06 AnOutsider: what's your appid ? Aug 15 23:59:18 when it doesn't work is when I run it via the "compiled" app Aug 15 23:59:19 then try this Aug 15 23:59:21 luna-send -P -n 1 palm://com.palm.downloadmanager/someMethod {} Aug 15 23:59:26 im tailing var/log/messages Aug 15 23:59:29 the capital P uses the public bus Aug 15 23:59:31 try that Aug 15 23:59:49 AnOutsider: what's your appid ? it matters for being able to make this work Aug 15 23:59:55 but isn't that the syntax to execute it directly and not from within the app? Aug 16 00:00:09 AnOutsider: yes, just check it out Aug 16 00:00:17 com.prethemer.prethemer - should it have palm in it? Aug 16 00:00:21 without the P (so public bus) it should work (or say the method was invalid) Aug 16 00:00:34 s/public/private/ Aug 16 00:00:34 destinal meant: without the P (so private bus) it should work (or say the method was invalid) Aug 16 00:00:41 AnOutsider: try com.palm.com.prethemer.prethemer for your app id Aug 16 00:00:49 ok ill give that a try Aug 16 00:00:56 AnOutsider: do you own prethemer.com ? Aug 16 00:00:59 rwhitby: I'm trying to explain it more than just tell him what to do Aug 16 00:01:06 destinal: agreed Aug 16 00:01:11 destinal it's appreciated, I dont like black boxed Aug 16 00:01:20 boxes* I like to know whats going on Aug 16 00:01:34 AnOutsider: luna send does exactly the same thing as your app does Aug 16 00:01:55 renaming the ID worked. Makes sense since it's not a documented thing Aug 16 00:01:56 AnOutsider: so this should be a valid test. without -P (private) works. WITH -P (public) won't Aug 16 00:01:58 mucho gracias Aug 16 00:01:59 destinal: wasn't trying to cut off the explanation, just give him something to test at the same time :-) Aug 16 00:02:14 AnOutsider: it's not that it's documented or not documented Aug 16 00:02:31 AnOutsider: it's that palm puts stuff on the private bus that they want to reserve for apps that ship on the pre by palm Aug 16 00:02:37 well it being undocumented, I figured maybe that was because it was a service only available to palm apps Aug 16 00:02:52 right. usually it's because they're more powerful Aug 16 00:03:07 and part of the sandbox is that apps made by mere mortals don't get to call it Aug 16 00:03:16 the distinction is the com.palm at the start of the app's namespace Aug 16 00:03:41 yeah, it seems that apps that need that won't get into the app catalog without explicit additional collaboration with palm Aug 16 00:03:59 so anything WITH that at the start of the name namespace sends all its commands over the private bus Aug 16 00:04:06 anything without (most apps) sends over public bus Aug 16 00:04:26 and you can test with -P to determine whether your apps without com.palm should be able to get to a service Aug 16 00:04:40 ahh ok, now it all makes sense Aug 16 00:04:50 [20:00] <+rwhitby> AnOutsider: do you own prethemer.com ? Aug 16 00:04:59 yes, I've got a bunch of *themer domains Aug 16 00:05:04 sweet. Aug 16 00:05:23 AnOutsider: do you have examples for android and iphone etc? Aug 16 00:05:27 though i hate the idea of using pre in the name since there's likelt a bunch of devices on the way Aug 16 00:05:37 what do you mean? Aug 16 00:05:58 do you have an existing range of themer apps for various devices? Aug 16 00:06:22 yes and no Aug 16 00:06:30 http://www.ithemer.com/ Aug 16 00:06:46 that project was shelved since Apple made it too hard to theme the iphone Aug 16 00:07:03 though in hindsight, I should've just done it since jailbreaking has become so mainstream Aug 16 00:07:20 http://www.skthemer.com/ - no jailbreaking needed, but what a crappy device Aug 16 00:07:48 AnOutsider: nice artwork anyway Aug 16 00:07:53 http://www.droidthemer.com/ - there's still no rEAL standard for theming android devices, so it would be pointless to try to compile a database of themes, so that was shelved as well Aug 16 00:08:08 gracias Aug 16 00:08:12 AnOutsider: nice - I love how the google adsense that comes up for Iceman Southpark is about searching police records :-) Aug 16 00:08:30 hhaha, i use adblock so i forgot I even added ads there Aug 16 00:08:43 that theme isn't mine though, it was used with permission by the creator Aug 16 00:09:09 I see that quick isntall is about to support ipk themes, but I figured this would still be a worthwhile project to pursue Aug 16 00:09:41 AnOutsider: do you need to write outside of /var to install a theme? Aug 16 00:12:05 *sigh* yep :( Aug 16 00:12:17 which is why I asked pregame to use prelease to execute commands Aug 16 00:13:06 haha and I just checked, dlmanager won't write tot he apps directory, though it acts like it did Aug 16 00:13:27 AnOutsider: preware is going to make that possible with postinst / prerm scripts Aug 16 00:14:30 AnOutsider: yep, you'll want to be using the ipkgservice that we're creating now :-) Aug 16 00:15:33 checking out WOSI now Aug 16 00:15:44 looks like preware is going to be a repository similar to Cydia Aug 16 00:17:29 AnOutsider: similar, using ipkg (what the pre uses natively) rather than apt Aug 16 00:18:04 right, i meant in idea, not necessarily in execution :) Aug 16 00:18:41 do you guys plan to create a themes section? if so, then it would likely be pointless to work on this Aug 16 00:18:48 with quickinstall and preware Aug 16 00:19:14 AnOutsider: there's still a need for a good web site for people to look at themes, discuss, vote, etc. Aug 16 00:19:36 just like the PreCentral app gallery Aug 16 00:19:44 right Aug 16 00:20:04 well if you guys would like me to just do the web end of things and provide XML/json feeds I can do that Aug 16 00:20:10 I'm more at home on the web anywho Aug 16 00:20:25 but yeah, if themes turn out to be just ipkgs, then preware should be able to install them Aug 16 00:20:48 well they aren't ATM Aug 16 00:20:54 AnOutsider: there's also the possibility of writing a theme management app that can use the service we're putting together to install them with one click Aug 16 00:21:11 my plan was just to store a zip file of the images, pull them down, unzip to proper directory and back up original images Aug 16 00:21:22 perhaps some advanced themes down the line that alter CSS Aug 16 00:21:45 AnOutsider: yes, uninstall is the key part of theme management Aug 16 00:21:48 but really, all that's needed is the ability to move files around (so wget, unzip, mv, cp etc) Aug 16 00:22:06 right, which would be fairly easy. just store the original images and css files of the stock apps Aug 16 00:22:51 AnOutsider: the key issue we're dealing with at the moment is how to allow things like that, but not allow a rogue webos app to get a privilege escalation to do stuff as Linux root, like sending your bank account details to a botnet ... Aug 16 00:23:30 or twitter. :D Aug 16 00:23:41 haha Aug 16 00:23:54 to be honest, I don't see a safe way to allow that Aug 16 00:23:55 which, they found out had a botnet using it to store data Aug 16 00:25:05 I mean it'll be up to responsible developers to use something like that (or prelease) in the proper manner Aug 16 00:25:15 AnOutsider: PuffTheMagic has some good ideas on using the sandbox app from Gentoo Aug 16 00:25:27 speaking of, any phone with prelease running is pretty much a potential victim to a rogue app anywho no? Aug 16 00:25:44 AnOutsider: social engineering means that bad developers can masquerade as good developers very easily Aug 16 00:25:53 mmhmm Aug 16 00:26:15 AnOutsider: indeed - many of the authors of these early "general purpose" services and apps have not thought through the security implications Aug 16 00:26:40 well, in their defense, the early days of any platform is always a bit chaotic Aug 16 00:26:43 e.g. mytether before I pointed it out to them Aug 16 00:26:46 hindsight being 20/20 and all Aug 16 00:27:29 AnOutsider: sure, but it's a mindset of people trying to be the first to get popularity or advertising revenue, without regard for the long-term implications. Aug 16 00:27:35 I suppose something liek rpelease could be written to only work at the beck and call of certain apps Aug 16 00:27:55 but even that can be exploited by another app identifying itself differently no? basically like we jsut did with changing my id to com.palm Aug 16 00:28:04 agreed there too Aug 16 00:29:27 ok enough staring at this screen for now, I need to wash my ass Aug 16 00:29:40 ohh Aug 16 00:29:56 yes, that was me you smelled Aug 16 00:30:15 um... TMI? Aug 16 00:30:16 haha Aug 16 00:39:28 should i get the extended battery? Aug 16 00:40:59 gkatsev: do you need it? Aug 16 00:42:28 Templarian: well, if i keep spaz open and read my feeds on it, when i get back home i might end up with less than 20% left Aug 16 00:43:13 and even though i use it at work now, so i could charge it at work, im not always going to be able to charge it. Aug 16 00:43:42 though, perhaps i could wait till january, when i start classes again to get another battery since the price might come down as well Aug 16 00:44:45 Sounds like you need it, I would just pick it up. Aug 16 00:45:33 yeah, especially since i am getting the seido holster with audiojack access Aug 16 00:46:20 ill use the money i got from the rebate on it, lol Aug 16 00:47:56 TMI? mayhap... but you enjoyed it anyways Aug 16 00:48:20 AnOutsider: did i? Aug 16 00:48:48 I saw it in your eyes Aug 16 00:49:07 AnOutsider: and you saw my eyes, how? Aug 16 00:49:25 isnt there supposed to be a way to apply coupon codes in the precentral store? Aug 16 00:49:45 I didn't see your eyes. It's called joking around... weird concept, yes I know. Aug 16 00:50:19 AnOutsider: ah ok, for second there i thought you managed to hack into my computer somehow or something Aug 16 00:50:23 phew Aug 16 00:50:36 well... I did, but I decided to hide that fact behind some sarcasm Aug 16 00:50:40 nice wallpaper Aug 16 00:50:42 hehe Aug 16 00:51:01 AnOutsider: yeah, its of you Aug 16 00:51:42 I get around Aug 16 00:52:14 I think I'm done with code for the day, anyone try 1vs100? Aug 16 00:53:32 ? Aug 16 00:54:07 Xbox Live Aug 16 00:54:13 their stab at a live game show Aug 16 00:55:02 i dont own any consoles Aug 16 00:55:35 then I guess that's a no :) Aug 16 00:55:47 or, rather, my PC is my console Aug 16 00:55:49 i tried to play it that first time it was in beta Aug 16 00:55:52 PC gamer for life! Aug 16 00:55:53 but couldnt get in Aug 16 00:55:57 and havent tried again Aug 16 00:56:09 (also easier to pirate the game for it, lol) Aug 16 00:56:24 I had that issue last night actually. Wouldn't connect me Aug 16 00:56:31 Maybe it gets busy on the weekends Aug 16 00:56:50 and I dunno, after staring at code for hours, the last thing I wanna do is close down all the windows I've got open and boot up a game Aug 16 00:57:08 I tried it when it was in beta a couple of times. It wasn't too bad Aug 16 00:58:53 They'd be on to something if they licensed wheel of fortune, jeopardy, price is right etc Aug 16 00:59:02 then hosted live versions of those in primetime as well Aug 16 00:59:28 that makes too much sense Aug 16 00:59:56 haha, it does doesn't it Aug 16 00:59:58 shucks Aug 16 01:01:29 Microsoft never does much that makes sense Aug 16 01:01:56 they don't, but I have to say, I love me some Windows 7 Aug 16 01:02:09 I am still sticking to OSX Aug 16 01:02:48 meh, I can't get comfy in OSX. For a laptop? definitely. For iphone dev? yup. For everyday use and web development? nah Aug 16 01:03:45 I love it. I haven't looked back since I switched to it. I sold off all my machines and went 100% mac Aug 16 01:04:09 haha, just don't start preaching to me Aug 16 01:04:29 I won't Aug 16 01:04:30 I swear, walkign into a starbucks is like walking past bible thumpers in times square Aug 16 01:04:33 ;) Aug 16 01:04:45 I am not like that at all. It's your money to spend how ever you like. Aug 16 01:04:52 same here.. love love love my mac.. wife and i both have macbook pro's.... soooo much more efficient at working on a mac than a windows machine.. plus having a real command line *nix system is a big win.. Aug 16 01:05:09 i like leo laporte's similie: it's like musalini's italy. at least the trains run on time Aug 16 01:05:09 but again.. like Ikyo is saying.. its up to you what you do with your money :) Aug 16 01:05:14 mm, i have to agree on the command line Aug 16 01:05:17 i feel natural there Aug 16 01:05:30 haha im no mac knocker, like I said, I use it for certain things Aug 16 01:05:36 i like linux for dev and windows for entertainment, i dual boot ubuntu and win7 Aug 16 01:05:42 but for main functionality, I still prefer a PC.. preferably running W7 Aug 16 01:05:57 i bought my parents 2 macbooks as well.. .. here is why.. I used to have them on windows.. and I got at least 2-3 calls a week from them on something they've screwed up.. or have spyware or whatever.. Aug 16 01:06:03 i still have erks with development on windows Aug 16 01:06:06 I use a Mac Pro and a Mac Mini for media PC's. I love running plex on it. Aug 16 01:06:12 i now hear *nothing* from them.. its great :) Aug 16 01:06:14 seven: now that I can get with Aug 16 01:06:18 well, since I have to write and support accounting software. and since ALL my customers live in windows. I gotta. Aug 16 01:06:24 mac stramlines so much that its unlikely theyll ever fuck anything up Aug 16 01:06:27 by installing or tinkering Aug 16 01:06:42 there, that's better Aug 16 01:06:49 Rick-zzz: yeah.. unfortunately at work we are a windows shop.. so i have to make the best of it Aug 16 01:06:50 ok, time for some halo :) Aug 16 01:06:53 bbl guys Aug 16 01:06:56 Rick: you want to get a laugh about accounting software? Aug 16 01:07:10 my g/f dad is still running FoxBase Pro like 2.1 DOS Aug 16 01:07:12 sure Ikyo -- but I know most of them already Aug 16 01:07:17 lol Aug 16 01:07:27 and the problem with that is? Aug 16 01:07:40 foxpro on dos is wicked fast Aug 16 01:07:54 ever tried to find a machine with a parallel port? Aug 16 01:08:06 Ikyo: simple fix available Aug 16 01:08:17 I ended up saying screw it and got him an iMac and some software that allows him to emulate it Aug 16 01:08:18 software exists which will map lpt1 to a usb port Aug 16 01:08:49 I think he is using printfil Aug 16 01:08:49 Ikyo: that's why older motherboards are handy for playing around with raw access to parallel lines :) Aug 16 01:08:54 although, we run dos apps on windows machines in a virtual pc anyway. Aug 16 01:09:15 Yeah, he is running it on a Windows XP virtual machine on a mac :) Aug 16 01:09:20 all the emulated ones may work to print Aug 16 01:09:28 Ikyo: my main bread-and-butter software is a quarter of amillion lines of Visual Foxpro 9 Aug 16 01:09:30 but not necessarily for bit banging stuff GPIO style Aug 16 01:10:07 like driving stepper motors and embedded electronics and other fun stuff Aug 16 01:10:54 for all that it seems to be on new machines you need to use a usb-connected microcontroller Aug 16 01:14:08 Honeyyyy, i'm home. Aug 16 01:20:04 Decimation: hey Aug 16 01:20:20 * oil was wondering who his honey was Aug 16 01:23:26 destinal: whats uppp :) Aug 16 01:24:25 * destinal != Decimation's honey. :P Aug 16 01:24:43 Decimation: sorry to hurt your feelings, but it just wouldn't work. Aug 16 01:25:00 haha Aug 16 01:29:15 destinal: i can keep a secret ;) Aug 16 01:31:37 wer Aug 16 01:31:39 d Aug 16 01:36:24 egaudet needs to hurry up :) I want a new keyboard to play with Aug 16 01:39:23 since more people are here....anyone other then me experience the Phone Offline bug? Aug 16 01:40:09 shift, symbol and landscape resize now work Aug 16 01:40:32 I am going out tonight so I wont' be around till tomorrow Aug 16 01:40:33 always nice to come home from vacation and have a new palm pre sitting at your door step :) Aug 16 01:41:09 Decimation: and it just sat there unstolen? lucky. Aug 16 01:42:00 then you better push the patch up E.....I will cry all not if not :) Aug 16 01:43:17 orange key is typing out "orange" when you hit it, so don't hit it Aug 16 01:43:55 I will have to hit it and then post on the forums about how it's broken :) Aug 16 01:44:04 So I take it no one else has had the Phone Offline issue? Aug 16 01:44:55 also the landscape mode will resize but not rotate if the app doesn't rotate Aug 16 01:46:43 I think Egaudet will create the single best app for the Pre this year Aug 16 01:46:51 I wont Aug 16 01:46:53 I didnt* Aug 16 01:47:58 I so want this camera, but my g/f would kill me for buying it Aug 16 01:49:46 have her killed first, duh. Aug 16 01:49:59 Ikyo, what's the problemo? Aug 16 01:52:09 Hey everyone! Aug 16 01:53:23 egaudet: pushing new version? Aug 16 01:53:33 using the symbol input is interesting Aug 16 01:53:50 I wonder if you couldn't use the same api though Aug 16 01:54:20 if there's no IM api Aug 16 01:54:22 that's what has been done. Use the same API but extend the code to handle a full keyboard tht isn't dismissed on a single keystroke Aug 16 01:54:30 trying to Aug 16 01:54:43 Agent admitted failure to sign using the key. Aug 16 01:54:43 Permission denied (publickey). Aug 16 01:54:43 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Aug 16 01:54:56 how does it get called by mojo? Aug 16 01:55:04 it's part of mojo? Aug 16 01:55:16 tmzt: we're PATCHING mojo to have the extended code linked in Aug 16 01:55:33 it's called up by a tap in the gesture area when in a text box. Aug 16 01:55:35 ah Aug 16 01:55:36 ok Aug 16 01:55:49 can I ask someone a mojo programming on listening to a listtap? Aug 16 01:55:58 but it's a very deep patch to framework.js Aug 16 01:56:07 egaudet: private message rwhitby Aug 16 01:56:12 adma: #webos Aug 16 01:56:18 ah that's pretty cool Aug 16 01:56:20 thanks Aug 16 01:56:28 Hopefully palm will look at some of this stuff and do it themselves Aug 16 01:56:44 it is to be hoped. It's pure open source, with gpl2 so that they can. Aug 16 01:57:07 Rick-home: actually, all our patches are MIT, not GPL, specifically so Palm can use them. Aug 16 01:57:10 would be nice they would use rdf like gecko toolkit does Aug 16 01:57:23 that's the secret behind firefox extensions Aug 16 01:57:29 ok can i email the patch to someone? Aug 16 01:57:34 i am being rushed out here :( Aug 16 01:58:06 you can send it to me Aug 16 01:58:42 rboatright@gmail.com Aug 16 01:58:45 we'll get it posted Aug 16 01:59:12 huh, does palm code have a tree structure to it? Aug 16 01:59:25 not sure what you're asking there tmzt Aug 16 01:59:33 the html I mean Aug 16 01:59:44 it's a dom. Aug 16 01:59:54 uh like any other dom./.... Aug 16 01:59:57 yeah Aug 16 02:00:14 I mean is there a consistent structure to it Aug 16 02:00:15 ok, so I guess I still don't understand what you're asking Aug 16 02:00:23 huh Aug 16 02:00:30 uh yes and no. Aug 16 02:00:40 ELEMENTS have a consistant structure. Aug 16 02:00:44 like, menu's go here, with this class or id Aug 16 02:00:52 oh Aug 16 02:00:53 oh, ok Aug 16 02:00:53 no. Aug 16 02:01:04 classes yes. Aug 16 02:01:06 Id's no Aug 16 02:02:28 Rick-home, emailed thanks a lot Aug 16 02:03:05 Ok gotta jump in the shower Aug 16 02:03:53 anyone do much photography? Aug 16 02:05:33 rwhitby: where was he trying to push the keyboard patch to? Aug 16 02:05:40 I have code, and a description. Aug 16 02:05:49 Rick-home: modifications repo Aug 16 02:06:00 framework subdir Aug 16 02:06:01 new one or old one? Aug 16 02:06:10 old, we haven't switched anything yet Aug 16 02:06:15 k Aug 16 02:06:27 gitorious is still the master for everything that exists in both Aug 16 02:07:23 does the optware-bootstrap.sh script set up SFTP access or will that need to be done manually afterwards? Aug 16 02:08:01 it sets it up Aug 16 02:08:04 I believe it sets it up Aug 16 02:08:21 will it give read/write access to everything? Aug 16 02:08:25 no Aug 16 02:08:43 you still need to make / rw if you want to modify it Aug 16 02:08:47 how would i set up read/write/delete access to /media/internal? Aug 16 02:09:09 that you should have Aug 16 02:09:16 let me check one second and make sure Aug 16 02:09:32 WillJitsu: /var and /media/internal are always writeable Aug 16 02:09:43 rwhitby: can you delete? Aug 16 02:10:05 If you can write, you can delete Aug 16 02:10:24 Permission denied. Aug 16 02:10:24 Error code: 3 Aug 16 02:10:24 Error message from server: Permission denied Aug 16 02:10:24 Request code: 13 Aug 16 02:10:36 I'm using WinSCP Aug 16 02:10:42 who owns the file? Aug 16 02:10:49 and what are the permissions on the file Aug 16 02:11:26 WillJitsu: I don't have a Pre, and everything in the Emulator is writeable :-) Aug 16 02:12:25 hmm looks like root owns it Aug 16 02:12:40 should I connect via WinSCP with root instead of my regular username? Aug 16 02:13:08 rwxr-xr-x is the permissions Aug 16 02:13:47 Hmm, I can't write to the folder at all Aug 16 02:14:22 looks like only the root user can write to the folder Aug 16 02:14:48 so how do I connect via WinSCP as "root" instead of "willjitsu"? Aug 16 02:16:08 it isn't going to allow it unless you have the proper key Aug 16 02:17:21 I don't use it, but I did find this: http://winscp.net/eng/docs/public_key Aug 16 02:17:34 how are other people transferring files via SFTP? Aug 16 02:17:54 I am on a Mac Aug 16 02:18:13 and can you write files to /media/internal/? Aug 16 02:18:24 nope Aug 16 02:18:35 so what's the point of setting up SFTP if you can't do anything with it? Aug 16 02:18:36 I just upload to my /var/home directory then move the files around Aug 16 02:18:45 oh Aug 16 02:19:01 :( Aug 16 02:19:14 would be nice to be able to drag/drop files to/from /media/internal/ Aug 16 02:19:32 You can upload to your home directory. The other option would be to create a key so you can log in as root. Aug 16 02:20:06 if I upload to my home directory, are the files owned by "willjitsu"? Aug 16 02:20:33 yes Aug 16 02:20:42 * rwhitby rants against the misuse of the word "donation": http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1827244 Aug 16 02:20:47 so then I'll need to ssh in and move the files to /media/internal/ as root, right? Aug 16 02:20:59 yes Aug 16 02:21:11 gotcha Aug 16 02:23:04 PuffTheMagic: PONG Aug 16 02:23:26 Ikyo: if I follow these directions, will it accomplish what I'm wanting? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Make_USB_Partition_Writable_via_SFTP Aug 16 02:23:28 geist: i have some kernel questions... idk if you want to do it here or in pm Aug 16 02:23:31 oh yea two known new bugs are if you hit the orange key it will output "orange" and landscape mode will resize but not rotate if the app does not support landscape (i.e. the messaging app) Aug 16 02:34:04 arrrrghhhh Aug 16 02:34:15 same problem egaudet was having -- can not push git Aug 16 02:34:40 no supported authentication methods exist. Aug 16 02:34:43 damn it. Aug 16 02:35:15 geist: hey. how's texas? Aug 16 02:35:24 when I get the ubuntu virtual running, I'll make a new ssh key and push it from there. Aug 16 02:35:26 :-( Aug 16 02:35:39 Rick-home: good plan Aug 16 02:36:04 hot Aug 16 02:36:12 and it got a nasty bug bite on my leg Aug 16 02:36:21 but otherwise it's pretty much like i remembered it :) Aug 16 02:36:27 being that i spent 23 years there Aug 16 02:36:27 i know i know Aug 16 02:36:38 remove git:// and ssh:// Aug 16 02:36:47 just try using git@url Aug 16 02:36:56 that worked for me when i was having issues using ssh:// Aug 16 02:37:11 geist - my profound sympathies. Texas is a lot like kansas except worse. :-) Aug 16 02:37:27 Kansas isn't so bad Aug 16 02:37:29 nah, texas has austin Aug 16 02:37:39 and the speed limit is 70 almost everywhere Aug 16 02:37:51 It better not be, I've chosen to live here for 54 years. Aug 16 02:37:52 except for the terrible speed traps each one of the little towns has Aug 16 02:38:05 Kansas doesn't have austin, but the enforced speed limit is way over 70 .... Aug 16 02:38:13 woot Aug 16 02:38:14 what part Rick? Aug 16 02:39:32 Topeka Aug 16 02:39:41 huh Aug 16 02:39:45 Texas is much cooler than Kansas Aug 16 02:39:48 Not to far at all....I live a little south of Olathe Aug 16 02:40:18 Especially KC, that city is nothing but suburbia, baby breeding and picket fences Aug 16 02:40:22 ;) Aug 16 02:41:02 except the jazz district, and the plaza, and downtown, and the rivermarket, and westport and the art district I would have to agree with you. Aug 16 02:41:09 Wait, that means I don't agree at all. :-) Aug 16 02:41:26 uhm Aug 16 02:41:39 Do you realise even Fort Worth has an art district far more superior than KC's Aug 16 02:41:55 and that's like the 5th city on the places to visit that are worth a shit in texas ;) Aug 16 02:42:03 this is damn weird....I have my RSA keys setup right, but I can't access the root account. It is still asking for a password which it shouldn't. Aug 16 02:42:38 But I am happy you guys at least have 1 art district ;) Aug 16 02:42:43 Ikyo: and you copied id_rsa.pub to ~root/.ssh/authorized_keys ? Aug 16 02:43:14 on the device? Aug 16 02:43:27 yes Aug 16 02:44:12 works for my other user just not root Aug 16 02:44:23 Ikyo: have you set a root password? Aug 16 02:47:03 RIck-home: any luck getting it sent up? Aug 16 02:47:18 Ikyo: ssh daemons will not allow key access if the password is blank Aug 16 02:47:29 mmmm Aug 16 02:47:40 picked up my touchstone for $35 today at work Aug 16 02:48:15 thank you all...that worked. Tlz I will take 2 :) Aug 16 02:48:28 lol Aug 16 02:48:39 I work for Sprint and don't get them that cheap Aug 16 02:50:30 i work for bestbuy Aug 16 02:50:53 Your cost is that low on them? Aug 16 02:50:58 yup Aug 16 02:51:09 Damn, we get 25% off, but nothing close to that Aug 16 02:51:39 I will need to get with you when I need to order some new camera lenses :) Aug 16 02:52:20 will do Aug 16 02:52:25 gotta run tho Aug 16 02:52:32 Wonder how big of a discount you get on them Aug 16 02:55:28 depends Aug 16 02:55:43 whatever cost is Aug 16 02:57:31 yeah, I was looking at picking up the Canon 18-200mm IS lens **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 16 02:59:57 2009