**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 16 02:59:57 2009 Aug 16 03:01:03 I think my g/f is wanting me to pull a miracle out of my ass. She wants a crystal case that will take the touchstone back and a decal. Aug 16 03:07:03 I think thick cases over the touchstone back kind of eliminate the functionality of the touchstone back Aug 16 03:07:42 the magnets have to work through any case, as well as the actual induction Aug 16 03:07:54 yeap Aug 16 03:14:43 i think i saw a post on precentral Aug 16 03:14:59 anyone interested in me like.. combining messages so when someone sends you a long message Aug 16 03:15:11 it combines the multiple messages into 1 Aug 16 03:15:46 destinal: yup, unstolen, thankfully :P Aug 16 03:29:13 any luck Rick getting it uploaded? Aug 16 03:34:43 Ikyo: manage to find that miracle up your ass? Aug 16 03:35:02 nope, no luck yet Aug 16 03:35:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8tV7KISLMk&feature=channel Aug 16 03:46:25 ugh, new pre Aug 16 03:46:34 too lazy to add all my mods back. Aug 16 03:48:02 Decimation: so you have two pre's now, or you had to replace yours and ship back the original? Aug 16 03:48:18 i still have my old one as of now Aug 16 03:48:24 but within 15 days i have to send it back Aug 16 03:48:26 :( Aug 16 03:48:45 so why return the first? Aug 16 03:49:38 what's up with your original pre? Aug 16 03:49:46 they said i have to send it in Aug 16 03:49:52 they sent me a new one Aug 16 03:49:57 along with packaging to send the old one back Aug 16 03:50:03 and i have to do it within the next 15 days Aug 16 03:50:20 what's up with the pre you're sending back? Aug 16 03:51:29 lol, nothing at all Aug 16 03:51:35 i went into ##data# Aug 16 03:51:38 changed some stuff Aug 16 03:51:45 told em my internet was brokeded. Aug 16 03:51:52 they couldnt get it fixed on the phone Aug 16 03:51:56 so they sent me a new one :P Aug 16 03:52:04 why did you do that? Aug 16 03:52:10 i had dropped my phone at band camp, so i had a big chip on the top Aug 16 03:52:15 it bothered me :( Aug 16 03:52:19 hehe Aug 16 03:52:41 bad Decimation, bad. Aug 16 03:52:57 "this one time, at band camp.." Aug 16 03:53:06 "I stuck a pre in my..." Aug 16 03:53:12 destinal: don't get me started with band camp stories :P Aug 16 03:53:38 I'm surprised, sprint has given us nothing but probs with replacements int he past Aug 16 03:53:39 Decimation: from what I've heard, I should have been in band.. Aug 16 03:53:51 oh, you've got insurance? that's cool, send us $100 and we'll send you a new phone in a couple days Aug 16 03:53:55 destinal: that is, correct :P Aug 16 03:54:48 I got kicked out of band at school because of my exploitation of the private practice rooms with girls Aug 16 03:55:36 after 5th time of band director walking in on me making out with girls he said enough was enough ;) Aug 16 03:56:33 Decimation: at least your screen didn't crack when you pushd the menu button Aug 16 03:57:46 psykoz: the situation is similiar here... :P Aug 16 03:57:56 AgentSmith: ahh, you got a really bad build then. Aug 16 03:58:02 tell me about it Aug 16 03:58:15 none of htem have had good screens of the 3 i've got Aug 16 03:58:21 one is already showing signs of oreo Aug 16 03:58:24 very poor hardware quality Aug 16 03:59:00 I didn't get a screen protector, figured, I'm going to keep it in the palm case the whole time.. somehow, I got a tiny vertical scratch on the screen which in the right light is really annoying Aug 16 03:59:09 but usually I don't notice it Aug 16 03:59:25 also lost my case at band camp :P Aug 16 03:59:29 somewhere in the girls dorms Aug 16 04:01:03 I have a few small scratches on my screen, but I hate the pre-condom, and I was sorta okay with the bodyguardz but just gave up on it and took it off Aug 16 04:01:16 im caseless. Aug 16 04:04:20 ive got a small crack coming up and around from the usb port up to the screen Aug 16 04:05:01 oi that sucks gkatsev Aug 16 04:05:32 but it doesnt seem to be getting any bigger, so, thats a plus... Aug 16 04:05:46 do you think i should go to sprint and tell them about it or something? Aug 16 04:07:24 so... anyone know where i can apply coupons on the precentral store? Aug 16 04:08:23 yeah it won't matter, most sprint stores (that i've dealt with) are a big pack of lying evil people Aug 16 04:09:50 well, the guy in the store in boston gave me a 20% discount on the touchstone... Aug 16 04:10:20 i guess if the crack grows any bigger and actually starts getting on the screen itself ill have it looked at Aug 16 04:10:31 plus, i work right across from the boston sprint store, so, thats nice Aug 16 04:13:12 re-applying all your mods = pain. Aug 16 04:13:43 gkatsev: go to a sprint store and tell em. Aug 16 04:13:46 you'll get a new one. Aug 16 04:16:03 when i do, should i bother deletings patches and homebrew apps? Aug 16 04:18:17 gkatsev: do it over with the doctor - see the front page of webos-internals.org at the bottom Aug 16 04:18:36 i went in the sprint store to report a dead pixel Aug 16 04:18:40 all my mods still on Aug 16 04:18:50 they switched my phones there an then, didnt even notice :P Aug 16 04:18:58 that was a few weeks ago. Aug 16 04:19:13 yeah, i guess webosdring would be good. Aug 16 04:19:39 Decimation: the trouble is that if Sprint wanted to give us a bad name for some reason, you just gave them ammunition - "Oh, X percent of returns have homebrew installations" Aug 16 04:20:02 ill probably wait a week, just in case they dont have any in stock, cuz my gf is in town next week and a cell would be good. Aug 16 04:20:23 rwhitby: oh :/ Aug 16 04:21:35 i guess no one knows the answer about the coupon codes on the precentral store, oh well... Aug 16 04:23:50 so have you guys seen that thread about a precentral app? Aug 16 04:23:58 * rwhitby notes http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1827404#post1827404 - support for preware postinsts - I've been working with Jason for a while to get this done. Aug 16 04:26:06 rwhitby: so you should be able to install terminal on a clean pre with it now? cool. Aug 16 04:26:32 maybe we can finally end the "rooting" meme Aug 16 04:26:44 destinal: yep, that's what I've been working towards, and I think we've now got it. Aug 16 04:27:30 rwhitby: I guess now there's a good reason to make an ipkg for the optware bootstrap Aug 16 04:27:57 destinal: yep Aug 16 04:33:44 hello, anyone awake Aug 16 04:33:52 trim81: maybe Aug 16 04:33:54 i screwed up my dialpad Aug 16 04:33:59 on the pre Aug 16 04:33:59 trim81: I'm not Aug 16 04:34:11 can someone help me bring this back? Aug 16 04:34:27 trim81: any particular reason you don't want to just doctor? Aug 16 04:34:45 um, with doctor, will it erase my whole pre? Aug 16 04:34:48 hard reset? Aug 16 04:34:54 i am trying this mod here: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Turning_Off_Dialpad_Noise Aug 16 04:34:59 yeah, but anything that the pre pushed up in the cloud will come back Aug 16 04:35:09 which is most things Aug 16 04:35:12 nah, i have too much mods done to it just the way i like it Aug 16 04:35:15 ah Aug 16 04:35:25 i rtaher just get the original dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 04:35:39 OR if someone can help me bring my dialpad back.... Aug 16 04:35:42 trim81: you can get it from the doctor imag Aug 16 04:35:43 image Aug 16 04:35:56 ok, i unrared the jar file Aug 16 04:36:00 where is that file located? Aug 16 04:36:11 in the doctor Aug 16 04:36:17 File /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 04:36:32 let me try to find it Aug 16 04:36:51 you have to extract webOS.tar and nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs.tar.gz inside that Aug 16 04:36:59 ok... Aug 16 04:37:05 i think i got the file Aug 16 04:37:12 can you please tell me how to add it back now Aug 16 04:37:13 lol? Aug 16 04:37:35 i am trying it with: webos quick install Aug 16 04:37:39 will that work Aug 16 04:37:54 cant you just copy it over the messed up file? Aug 16 04:38:03 * gkatsev has never done it before, fyi Aug 16 04:38:06 ok, dumb question how do i do that Aug 16 04:38:09 trim81: does it let you copy arbitrary files? Aug 16 04:38:11 usb mode? Aug 16 04:38:22 i dont know the commands on putty Aug 16 04:38:57 trim81: I don't have familiarity with webos quick install Aug 16 04:39:29 dam, how will i get this file back onto the pre Aug 16 04:39:33 how would you do it? Aug 16 04:40:11 trim81: what os are you using? Aug 16 04:40:12 I have dropbear installed on my pre so I would just scp it over Aug 16 04:40:23 you could do it with novacom though Aug 16 04:40:42 destinal: can you copy files over novacom? Aug 16 04:40:47 gkatsev: yeah Aug 16 04:41:33 cool, though, not very useful for me... i usually just scp the files over Aug 16 04:41:37 ok so i just got the file from webdoctor Aug 16 04:41:48 how do i..... Aug 16 04:41:55 novacom or dropbear Aug 16 04:42:37 novacom Aug 16 04:43:00 ok Aug 16 04:43:05 can you decribe the steps Aug 16 04:43:20 how do i copy this file back Aug 16 04:43:25 just ordered myself the seido extended battery and the sprint clip with audiojack access Aug 16 04:43:39 trim81: ok try this Aug 16 04:43:47 novacom get file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 04:43:51 should display your current version Aug 16 04:43:54 inside putter Aug 16 04:43:54 on the pre Aug 16 04:43:59 inside putty? Aug 16 04:43:59 trim81: no Aug 16 04:44:04 run that from a command line Aug 16 04:44:13 windows shell Aug 16 04:44:15 rwhitby: on the ipkg feed, all the apps sections are "misc" Aug 16 04:44:22 ok, do i conntect with just charge mode Aug 16 04:44:24 or what Aug 16 04:44:24 destinal: command prompt. :D Aug 16 04:44:46 trim81: yeah, just charge Aug 16 04:44:46 why doesnt someone change it so they can be set by the maker, and enable categories for stuff like file coaster and webOS quickinstall Aug 16 04:44:56 trim81: make sure you're in dev mode Aug 16 04:44:59 Decimation: yes, we're waiting for PreCentral to make the category information available in their open xml feed for us to pass through to the open standard ipkg feed. Aug 16 04:45:13 I assume if you were installing stuff that you are Aug 16 04:45:49 rwhitby: also, that pimpmypre guy has that app called "PreUpdater" Aug 16 04:46:03 ok, dev mode as in konami code? Aug 16 04:46:07 i have that Aug 16 04:46:08 checks for updates on all homebrew apps.. that should be like.. incorperated into preload of filecoaster. Aug 16 04:46:16 So when Palm gets to v2.0 of webOS, will it be ... wait fo rit.. Aug 16 04:46:19 ... wait for it.. Aug 16 04:46:21 Premature Aug 16 04:46:24 ;) Aug 16 04:46:28 trim81: ok Aug 16 04:46:33 *rimshot* Aug 16 04:46:49 'novacom' is not recognized as an internal or external command Aug 16 04:46:52 in cmd Aug 16 04:47:42 trim81: huh. I guess you have a novacom daemon without the command line tools. Aug 16 04:47:53 Decimation: yes, PreUpdater is taking advantage of the open standard ipkg feed features. It's a pity that other installers like fileCoaster don't do the same. The Preware installer will have the same update-all-packages feature, since it's a standard feature of the ipkg tool. Aug 16 04:48:05 * rwhitby tweets http://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/3339935227 Aug 16 04:48:16 hmm, should i just install dropbear Aug 16 04:48:16 trim81: you could install the sdk Aug 16 04:48:22 on your windows box Aug 16 04:48:26 oh yeha! Aug 16 04:48:28 good idea Aug 16 04:48:56 * Robi_ follows Aug 16 04:49:00 rwhitby: when is one to expect the "Preware" installer, and has development even started on it, i havent heard anything. Aug 16 04:49:14 Decimation: do you know 'oil' ? Aug 16 04:49:29 * gkatsev RTed the tweet Aug 16 04:49:31 ive talked to him in here i think, rwhitby. Aug 16 04:49:45 rwhitby: how does one downgrade terminal forexample to 0.1.6 Aug 16 04:49:51 Decimation: then you'll know the quality of the homebrew apps that he produces ... Aug 16 04:50:20 ok downloading sdk now Aug 16 04:50:26 Robi_: ipkg -o /var remove , then wget , then ipkg -o /var install Aug 16 04:50:40 Robi_, i tried manually downgrading by uninstall 0.1.7 and the termplugin, then manually installing 0.1.6 + the 0.1.6 term plugin but it was unstable, I'm not sure why Aug 16 04:50:40 will i be able to copy the file over sdk? Aug 16 04:50:50 Decimation: oil is now part of the webos-internals development team, and is working on the Preware installer. Aug 16 04:50:55 rwhitby: you can combine step two and three, just ipkg -o /var install http://whatever Aug 16 04:51:19 destinal: you'll probably need some -force switches to go backwards in versions Aug 16 04:51:25 rwhitby: then i expect it will be great :) Aug 16 04:51:53 Decimation: the work he has done in the last 24 hours assures me that it will be :-) Aug 16 04:52:07 rwhitby: anything i can see? :) Aug 16 04:52:20 Decimation: the design of the app is on the wiki Aug 16 04:52:33 rwhitby: every time i do a manual install it just grabs the new stuff from the web again Aug 16 04:52:39 rwhitby: where exactly? Aug 16 04:53:01 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware Aug 16 04:53:06 only thing i didn't try it supply the full path, but did ./....ipk Aug 16 04:53:18 trim81: yeah, you'll have a novacom executable and you can copy files over with it Aug 16 04:53:33 rwhitby: this is gonna be really cool :) Aug 16 04:53:37 is that the directoty for dialpad? Aug 16 04:53:46 /// /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers Aug 16 04:53:49 Decimation: and the code is in our webos-internals applications git repository Aug 16 04:54:29 rwhitby: whats the link to the git repo Aug 16 04:55:00 haha, prejewled is hilarious Aug 16 04:55:02 trim81: that's the directory the file is in, yeah Aug 16 04:55:15 destinal": installed sdk now Aug 16 04:55:16 rwhitby: okay, im here, http://gitorious.org/webos-applications/installer, but where do i actually see the code. Aug 16 04:55:19 Decimation: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/preware Aug 16 04:55:20 do i run palm inspector.exe? Aug 16 04:55:23 trim81: no Aug 16 04:55:29 ok... Aug 16 04:55:32 so what do i do Aug 16 04:55:33 trim81: run the novacom command line i sent earlier Aug 16 04:55:36 rwhitby: thanks. Aug 16 04:55:37 Rick-home: we should delete that other installer repo Aug 16 04:55:45 novacom get file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 04:55:45 in cmd prmpt? Aug 16 04:55:49 yeah Aug 16 04:55:56 that should display it Aug 16 04:56:04 (the messed up version you have now) Aug 16 04:56:27 oks Aug 16 04:56:29 (offline root mode: not running org.webosinternals.termplugin.prerm) Aug 16 04:56:31 Decimation: it requires the ipkgservice at http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/applications/trees/master/ipkgservice, which is why the release of WebOS Quick Install 2.0 is so important. Aug 16 04:56:31 does it? Aug 16 04:56:32 a bunch of strings came up Aug 16 04:56:35 ues Aug 16 04:56:36 yes Aug 16 04:56:51 what do i do with it Aug 16 04:57:01 trim81: ok, so you need to cd to a directory with the GOOD version in it you got from the doctor Aug 16 04:57:09 ok.. Aug 16 04:57:11 how Aug 16 04:57:14 lol Aug 16 04:57:18 thanks in advance Aug 16 04:57:20 btw Aug 16 04:57:47 well, you said you found the good dialpad-assistant.js after extracting the .tar's from the doctor, didn't you? Aug 16 04:57:59 yeah Aug 16 04:58:06 so where is that file? Aug 16 04:58:07 i have the file Aug 16 04:58:11 i just dont know the cd command Aug 16 04:58:14 for copying it back Aug 16 04:58:16 @5~$^@$ Aug 16 04:58:18 root@castle:~# ipkg -o /var install http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all> Aug 16 04:58:18 on the cmd prompt Aug 16 04:58:21 Downloading http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/all/org.webosinternals.terminal_0.1.6_all.ipk Aug 16 04:58:24 Begin installation of org.webosinternals.terminal Aug 16 04:58:26 Installing org.webosinternals.terminal (0.1.7) to root... Aug 16 04:58:40 * rwhitby bbl Aug 16 04:58:45 trim81: cd c:\some\directory\with\file\in\it :) Aug 16 04:58:49 that changes directory Aug 16 04:58:51 not copy Aug 16 04:59:00 G:\preroot\webosextract\usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.phone\app\controllers\dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 04:59:07 thats my location of the GOOD file Aug 16 04:59:12 \\\\ G:\preroot\webosextract\usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.phone\app\controllers\dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 04:59:13 so do this Aug 16 04:59:16 G: Aug 16 04:59:26 ok Aug 16 04:59:26 just type G: Aug 16 04:59:29 yah Aug 16 04:59:33 then Aug 16 04:59:41 cd G:\preroot\webosextract\usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.phone\app\controllers Aug 16 04:59:44 ok Aug 16 05:00:12 novacom put file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js < dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:00:28 that will overwrite the bad one on your pre with the one in this directory Aug 16 05:01:13 bad or error response from other side: 'file open dailed" Aug 16 05:01:31 we need to have 0.1.7 removed from the repo Aug 16 05:01:33 oh right, the remote root fs is read only Aug 16 05:01:34 if you're talking to an older novacomd, try -k to endable krustymode Aug 16 05:01:45 ok, u want me to open up mount Aug 16 05:01:46 ? Aug 16 05:01:49 i know how to do that Aug 16 05:02:04 yeah you need to mount the pre's root fs read-write Aug 16 05:02:58 s/fs/filesystem/ Aug 16 05:02:59 destinal meant: yeah you need to mount the pre's root filesystem read-write Aug 16 05:03:26 why would we pull 0.1.7 from the repository? Aug 16 05:03:32 ok, i opened it now, i ran it..and it just hangs Aug 16 05:03:47 rwhitby: just installed with webos quick install Aug 16 05:03:48 after file:/// (is it 3 lines or 2?) Aug 16 05:03:53 the icon didnt show up on my launcher? Aug 16 05:03:54 ? Aug 16 05:03:59 one line Aug 16 05:04:27 one slash after file? Aug 16 05:04:31 file:/ Aug 16 05:04:33 as in what is between the quotes but without the quotes: "novacom put file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js < dialpad-assistant.js" Aug 16 05:04:47 k ill try again Aug 16 05:06:40 just ran it... and it hangs Aug 16 05:06:44 nothing happens Aug 16 05:07:02 you included the less than symbol < Aug 16 05:07:04 i just played prejewled for the past 10 minutes... Aug 16 05:07:08 oops Aug 16 05:07:13 time for sleep Aug 16 05:07:14 and dialpad-assistant.js after it? Aug 16 05:07:22 yes, i copied your whole line Aug 16 05:07:24 novacom put file:///usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/dialpad-assistant.js < dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:07:33 weird, that works fine for me Aug 16 05:07:51 I guess hit control - C Aug 16 05:08:00 and see if it fixed Aug 16 05:08:06 u mean copy? Aug 16 05:08:14 nah control C is break Aug 16 05:08:22 in this context Aug 16 05:08:52 rwhitby: yeah, not sure why but this thing just doesn't want to install for me. Aug 16 05:09:03 good night guys Aug 16 05:09:14 trim81: it's possible that even though it hung the good data did get in the file. Aug 16 05:09:17 ok, so i type control - C Aug 16 05:09:23 trim81: reboot your pre and see if you are fixed Aug 16 05:09:25 ok, should i reboot Aug 16 05:09:29 do i even need to reboot Aug 16 05:09:34 yeah just to be safe Aug 16 05:09:35 to see my new dialer Aug 16 05:09:38 since luna has a cache Aug 16 05:09:51 ok rebooting Aug 16 05:09:58 dang this sucks Aug 16 05:10:00 you can use luna-send to rescan it but I didn't want to get into that Aug 16 05:10:04 all iw anted is to silence the dial tones Aug 16 05:10:13 now i jacked up my dialer Aug 16 05:10:20 all i did was comment out 2 lines Aug 16 05:11:05 trim81: this stuff can happen if you are editing important files, thats why you always back up. Aug 16 05:11:27 dam Aug 16 05:11:33 trim81: uncomment them then Aug 16 05:11:36 :/ Aug 16 05:11:39 if this doesnt work, anything else we can do short of webosdoctor? Aug 16 05:12:16 trim81: you could get shell access via dropbear and fix it on the pre itself Aug 16 05:12:41 ok, just rebooted Aug 16 05:12:46 dialer is blank again! Aug 16 05:12:48 arggh Aug 16 05:13:07 destinal, i think i have dropbear installed Aug 16 05:13:16 how do iverify Aug 16 05:13:45 trim81: were you accessing it via putty before? Aug 16 05:13:48 yes Aug 16 05:13:54 ok do that again Aug 16 05:14:32 ok, so get back into root in putty yes?> Aug 16 05:14:36 yeah Aug 16 05:14:41 done Aug 16 05:15:00 then cd /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/ Aug 16 05:15:03 ok Aug 16 05:15:10 nano -w dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:15:29 cannot create nanoe: rad only file ssytem Aug 16 05:15:29 err they don't come with that do they Aug 16 05:15:48 .... Aug 16 05:15:55 trim81: mount -o remount,rw / Aug 16 05:16:05 ok done Aug 16 05:16:09 run nano again? Aug 16 05:16:24 yeah nano -w dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:16:27 (if you have nano) Aug 16 05:16:34 nano not found Aug 16 05:16:38 .... Aug 16 05:16:56 do you happen to know how to use vi? Aug 16 05:17:03 =( Aug 16 05:17:05 lol Aug 16 05:17:07 no Aug 16 05:17:15 trim81: do you have optware installed? Aug 16 05:17:29 try: ipkg-opt --version Aug 16 05:18:47 yes Aug 16 05:18:51 version 0.99.163 Aug 16 05:19:00 ok. next: ipkg-opt install nano Aug 16 05:19:20 sucesfully Aug 16 05:19:34 ok just for a baseline, try: wc -l dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:19:41 that'll tell you how many lines it is Aug 16 05:19:48 is thatan L Aug 16 05:19:50 an L Aug 16 05:19:51 or 1 Aug 16 05:19:55 yeah L Aug 16 05:19:58 lowercase Aug 16 05:20:31 0 dialpad -assistant.js Aug 16 05:20:33 wtf Aug 16 05:20:33 destinal: did u have a chance to anything w/terminal? Aug 16 05:20:35 does that mean Aug 16 05:20:36 I was afraid of that Aug 16 05:20:49 am i screwed? Aug 16 05:20:55 when we used put somehow there was something wrong with the command you ran and it wasn't copying from the file Aug 16 05:21:09 so it overwrote the file with nothing Aug 16 05:21:14 fawk Aug 16 05:21:14 trim81 was that "dialpad -assistant.js" or "dialpad-assistant.js"? Aug 16 05:21:32 dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:21:51 any ideas guys? Aug 16 05:22:20 trim81: do you have scp access? Aug 16 05:22:24 winscp, pscp, etc Aug 16 05:22:31 no.. Aug 16 05:22:35 is it hard to install Aug 16 05:22:38 so download pscp from the putty site Aug 16 05:23:02 destinal: have been playing w/terminal, and it looks like it's the old prob again, the old obj is being closed when u go into prefs, and NP_New() is being called when it's being activated again Aug 16 05:23:11 destinal done Aug 16 05:23:23 downloaded Aug 16 05:23:43 trim81: ok, you need to put it somewhere in your path so we can easily run it from the command line Aug 16 05:24:08 i think my upload speeds on sprint are faster than my cable modem Aug 16 05:24:08 then bring up your command line and Aug 16 05:24:09 g:\preroot\pscp.exe Aug 16 05:24:10 cd G:\preroot\webosextract\usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.phone\app\controllers Aug 16 05:25:04 done Aug 16 05:25:16 trim81: then you need to know the IP address and port number and user name you use to connect in putty Aug 16 05:25:34 um, i am conttect usb cable do i even need IP Aug 16 05:25:42 hmm Aug 16 05:25:47 how do you connect in putty then? Aug 16 05:25:52 usb cable Aug 16 05:25:55 just charge mode Aug 16 05:26:06 novaproxy Aug 16 05:26:09 ah Aug 16 05:26:12 novaproxy Aug 16 05:26:20 well that's no good then Aug 16 05:26:24 haha Aug 16 05:26:33 this is terrible Aug 16 05:26:52 trim81: open up dialpad-assistant.js in wordpad Aug 16 05:26:55 i can get to whatever you want, just need to walk me through it Aug 16 05:27:02 ok, the GOOd one? Aug 16 05:27:07 yeah Aug 16 05:27:12 notepad ++ ok? Aug 16 05:27:18 sure so long as it renders properly Aug 16 05:27:31 opened Aug 16 05:27:34 you need to select all and copy the whole file to the clipboard Aug 16 05:27:50 done Aug 16 05:27:56 then go back to your putty screen Aug 16 05:28:04 ok Aug 16 05:28:07 cd /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/ Aug 16 05:28:20 "cat > dialpad-assistant.js" (without the quotes) Aug 16 05:28:41 ok then enter? Aug 16 05:28:43 yes Aug 16 05:28:49 ok looks like it hung Aug 16 05:28:51 right Aug 16 05:28:57 now paste Aug 16 05:28:58 ok Aug 16 05:29:03 then enter? Aug 16 05:29:13 hit enter, then control-D Aug 16 05:29:23 hey.. sorry but i cant paste Aug 16 05:29:27 when i right click in putty Aug 16 05:29:33 it says ap Aug 16 05:29:42 ok Aug 16 05:29:44 control-C Aug 16 05:29:47 nevermind got it Aug 16 05:29:53 you have to do it again Aug 16 05:29:56 type control-D Aug 16 05:29:58 ? Aug 16 05:29:59 yeah Aug 16 05:30:08 then "cat > dialpad-assistant.js" (without the quotes) Aug 16 05:30:09 enter? Aug 16 05:30:20 you need to do it again since "ap" would have screwed it all up Aug 16 05:30:21 control-D then enter? Aug 16 05:30:31 just control-d should bring you back to a prompt Aug 16 05:30:34 so is there anyone out there still working on a video camera? lol Aug 16 05:30:58 ok i just ran a new one and pasted it Aug 16 05:31:04 how do i close the paste Aug 16 05:31:09 enter and then control-d Aug 16 05:31:16 then you should get another prompt Aug 16 05:31:19 then life is happy Aug 16 05:31:22 ok cool Aug 16 05:31:26 can i check the dialer now Aug 16 05:31:28 or must restrat Aug 16 05:31:31 wait Aug 16 05:31:34 ok.. Aug 16 05:31:45 im at cd prompt on putty Aug 16 05:31:58 do this Aug 16 05:31:59 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.appinstaller/rescan {} Aug 16 05:32:13 then you don't have to reboot Aug 16 05:32:31 I think Aug 16 05:32:36 not founf Aug 16 05:32:38 not found Aug 16 05:32:52 never mind then, just reboot Aug 16 05:33:07 PuffTheMagic: did u ever get the terminal prefs to work? Aug 16 05:33:08 well ok but just for kicks i opened up dialer before restarting Aug 16 05:33:10 and blank again Aug 16 05:33:11 arggh Aug 16 05:33:14 i will try to restart now Aug 16 05:33:38 yeah, if it still doesn't work after reboot, I'd say just doctor it. sorry. Aug 16 05:33:51 if that didnt work, can we try to see how many lines from that file Aug 16 05:33:55 Zuchmir2: no, like jcrawford, i cant figure out how to use Depot Aug 16 05:33:55 remmeber that command you gave me? Aug 16 05:34:10 what is depot? Aug 16 05:34:15 oh also, to mention.. i have the black dialer hack...is/was this the problem Aug 16 05:34:21 why we couldnt do it Aug 16 05:34:43 trim81: no way to tell, one patch can often cause problems with another Aug 16 05:34:46 maybe just do a whole new session when Prefs closes Aug 16 05:35:06 trim81: I think patches are a really bad way of doing this, for that reason Aug 16 05:35:14 the better way isn't here yet, but I have some ideas Aug 16 05:35:15 rebooting still, dang i have so much mods done to my liking already Aug 16 05:35:19 id hate to dctor it Aug 16 05:35:28 is there any EASY way to copy paste the entriee fiole Aug 16 05:35:32 maybe i can install ssh Aug 16 05:35:36 file* Aug 16 05:35:56 woohooo! Aug 16 05:35:58 dialer is back Aug 16 05:36:00 WORKS Aug 16 05:36:01 hahaah Aug 16 05:36:09 trim81: awesome Aug 16 05:36:11 awesome! Aug 16 05:36:17 PuffTheMagic: i actually meant how to go back and not freeze Terminal Aug 16 05:36:35 destinal, is it too much to ask for you to help me remove the dial tones Aug 16 05:36:45 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Turning_Off_Dialpad_Noise Aug 16 05:36:47 that mod? Aug 16 05:36:47 trim81: I have no idea on those patches, sorry Aug 16 05:37:14 I've never tried any of the patches myself, actually Aug 16 05:37:28 argh Aug 16 05:37:39 so question: what we did earlier is just copied/p[asted the whole dam file Aug 16 05:37:42 into putty riguht Aug 16 05:37:45 Zuchmir2: using the db is still the answer... i just have too many projects and havent gottent to it Aug 16 05:37:50 feel free to figure it out Aug 16 05:38:00 or just use database calls instead of depot Aug 16 05:38:15 i tried to use the depot once Aug 16 05:38:21 trim81: yeah, next time your life could be a lot easier Aug 16 05:38:21 haha Aug 16 05:38:27 depot sucks Aug 16 05:38:30 dont fucking work Aug 16 05:38:36 trim81: cd /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.phone/app/controllers/ Aug 16 05:38:46 trim81: cp dialpad-assistant.js dialpad-assistant.js.orig Aug 16 05:38:47 mojo docs suck donkey balls Aug 16 05:38:49 PuffTheMagic: i actually meant how to "go back", and not freeze Terminal Aug 16 05:39:03 destinal: what does cp stand for Aug 16 05:39:04 Zuchmir2: i read that... but i dont see the point Aug 16 05:39:06 copy Aug 16 05:39:07 but if u want to go back Aug 16 05:39:10 just look in the git log Aug 16 05:39:13 and revert those commits Aug 16 05:39:28 then if you ever screw up the dialpad-assistant.js, you can bring back the original by Aug 16 05:39:38 ok,, how to bring back original Aug 16 05:39:45 cp dialpad-assistant.js.orig cp dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:39:47 do u remeber which one was good? Aug 16 05:39:48 err Aug 16 05:40:01 cp dialpad-assistant.js.orig dialpad-assistant.js Aug 16 05:40:20 aha ok, THANKS destinal! Aug 16 05:40:26 Zuchmir2: no dont, but what good is prefs if they cant be stored Aug 16 05:40:34 btw, i run that command in putty right (backup)?? Aug 16 05:40:36 rwhitby: i just install the ipkg service via terminal like anything else, right Aug 16 05:40:47 ipkg -o /var install org.webosinternals.ipkgservice Aug 16 05:40:50 trim81: yeah, same as we were in earlier Aug 16 05:40:52 ... will look into storage, but want to be able to have a stable menu Aug 16 05:41:04 then hide prefs :D Aug 16 05:41:06 ... if need be, can store prefs in the plugin Aug 16 05:41:25 could store them in a text file too Aug 16 05:41:25 ie create ~/.termplugin Aug 16 05:41:35 Zuchmir2: nah, mojo is the best place for it Aug 16 05:41:40 Decimation: don't forget the postinst Aug 16 05:41:44 yeah, that's what i mean, that's why it's important that the prefs works Aug 16 05:41:47 destinal: its not really "in" mojo Aug 16 05:41:51 it would be in a database Aug 16 05:41:54 accessed by mojo Aug 16 05:41:57 rwhitby: postinst? Aug 16 05:42:00 I mean the best place for the code to do it Aug 16 05:42:10 I should state more clearly :) Aug 16 05:42:18 and yeah a sqlite3 db Aug 16 05:42:39 Decimation: use webos quick install 2.0 :-) Aug 16 05:42:42 destinal: thanks ALOT! Aug 16 05:42:44 but if it take 15 hours to figure out database and 10 min to do a text file Aug 16 05:42:48 my standing rule is this, if something CAN be done in the mojo code using native facilities, do it that way Aug 16 05:42:49 i could care less Aug 16 05:43:00 i am backing up the file now, and revert to original if it screws up Aug 16 05:43:12 trim81: you're welcome. happy hacking but be careful to backup whatever you modify, doctor is never fun. Aug 16 05:43:30 glad youre here to help...truly mean it Aug 16 05:43:51 PuffTheMagic: did u read pg 166+ of Palm webOS? Aug 16 05:44:11 trim81: thanks :) Aug 16 05:44:11 detinal: just ran: cp dialpad-assistant.js.orig Aug 16 05:44:20 rwhitby: so just package with palm-package, then use webos quick install? Aug 16 05:44:24 it gives me some muble jumbo Aug 16 05:44:28 Zuchmir2: lol no, i didnt buy that book Aug 16 05:44:30 eh, you need two parameters to cp Aug 16 05:44:40 trim81: it's cp sourcefile destfile Aug 16 05:44:55 Zuchmir2: its like beta edition Aug 16 05:45:01 the book has bugs ;) Aug 16 05:45:03 trim81: so cp dialpad-assistant.js dialpad-assistant.js.orig Aug 16 05:45:05 um, so whats the command to backup BusyBox v1.11.2 () multi-call binary Aug 16 05:45:07 Usage: cp [OPTION]... SOURCE DEST Aug 16 05:45:08 Copy SOURCE to DEST, or multiple SOURCE(s) to DIRECTORY Aug 16 05:45:10 Options: Aug 16 05:45:12 -a Same as -dpR Aug 16 05:45:13 -d,-P Preserve links Aug 16 05:45:13 trim81: NO Aug 16 05:45:15 -H,-L Dereference all symlinks (default) Aug 16 05:45:16 -p Preserve file attributes if possible Aug 16 05:45:18 -f Force overwrite Aug 16 05:45:20 -i Prompt before overwrite Aug 16 05:45:20 trim81: u shouldnt be messing that up Aug 16 05:45:21 -R,-r Recurse directories Aug 16 05:45:23 -l,-s Create (sym)links Aug 16 05:45:24 ? Aug 16 05:45:26 lol Aug 16 05:45:27 and dont paste spam in here Aug 16 05:45:28 my bad Aug 16 05:45:43 err thats not spam Aug 16 05:45:51 yeah it is Aug 16 05:45:57 you spammed my irc log Aug 16 05:46:12 destinal: so i run this? Aug 16 05:46:14 cp dialpad-assistant.js dialpad-assistant.js.orig Aug 16 05:46:50 trim81: yeah that makes a copy of the current one and gives it an orig extension. you would swap those two names around to restore Aug 16 05:47:01 ok cool got it Aug 16 05:47:47 okay, i think i got it all set up Aug 16 05:48:00 is there anyway to test if the backup was succesfful Aug 16 05:48:03 trim81: if you have problems with the command line stuff on the pre, it's all standard linux commands for the most part, you may consider some linux books Aug 16 05:48:07 rwhitby: when you open the preware app, should it just keep spinning? Aug 16 05:48:11 thats all it does for me. Aug 16 05:49:04 Decimation: you need to start the service Aug 16 05:49:09 trim81: ls -l dialpad-assistant.js dialpad-assistant.js.orig will show both Aug 16 05:49:14 how do i do that? Aug 16 05:49:22 rwhitby: how do i do that? Aug 16 05:49:25 that and it doesn't do much else Aug 16 05:49:33 (i really gotta get used to putting names before messages) Aug 16 05:49:40 destinal: yup, that showed both, THANKS AGAIN Aug 16 05:49:49 oil: i wouldnt expect it to do much so soon, just looking at it. Aug 16 05:49:58 trim81: you're welcome Aug 16 05:50:42 Decimation: luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list_installed {} Aug 16 05:50:51 that is a workaround till we automatically start it Aug 16 05:51:49 rwhitby, oil: this is looking amazing already... Aug 16 05:57:08 PuffTheMagic: you talking about the Mitch Palm WebOS book having bugs? Aug 16 05:59:06 i only know of 1 webos book Aug 16 05:59:07 destinal: if you are still here, i got the mod done on the dialer...thanks to your help Aug 16 05:59:09 thanks again Aug 16 05:59:27 trim81: :) Aug 16 05:59:38 i learned alot tonight Aug 16 05:59:40 ahah Aug 16 05:59:42 you're welcome. Aug 16 05:59:54 are you on precentral by the way? Aug 16 06:00:15 trim81: as destinal but I haven't really posted over there Aug 16 06:00:26 oh ok, just wanted to say thanks again Aug 16 06:00:31 i got the mod working Aug 16 06:00:50 so seriously... how long does it take before a drained pre can boot again Aug 16 06:00:54 trim81: cool. glad you were able to get it going and learn some things Aug 16 06:01:06 PuffTheMagic: uh, like 5 minutes if you plug it into a 1000ma source Aug 16 06:01:11 10 minutes at 500ma Aug 16 06:01:34 it's insanely long IMO Aug 16 06:01:35 ahh Aug 16 06:01:44 yeah ipod took like 40 seconds Aug 16 06:01:51 before u could get it to boot Aug 16 06:01:56 the AC charger that comes with the pre is 1000ma so use that Aug 16 06:02:01 yeah Aug 16 06:02:04 i plugged it into that Aug 16 06:02:08 and it booted right away Aug 16 06:02:11 damn usb port Aug 16 06:02:20 damn... im back to the battery logo Aug 16 06:02:24 guess it wasnt enough Aug 16 06:02:31 and the puck is about 700mA iirc Aug 16 06:03:08 PuffTheMagic: you have no idea.. lol.. i've submitted about 25 errata just from page 100 to about 130.. Aug 16 06:03:19 geist: yeah. I need to get a couple of those, a friend showed me his and it's really slick Aug 16 06:03:20 LOL Aug 16 06:03:46 i love the bedside mode it goes into when it's on it Aug 16 06:03:53 i didn't start prior to page 100.. just figured i was fixing a few one offs.. Aug 16 06:04:34 then i figured i better submit some errata.. because i can only imagine the havoc it has for completely new developers to webos and/or javascript it must be having.. Aug 16 06:04:43 my pre is now in an endless boot and fail cycle Aug 16 06:04:51 cause of no battery power Aug 16 06:04:52 the nanotubes on the bottom or whatever, it can hold on to a smooth or curved surface better than anything I've seen and the magnets hold it very stable. I'm thinking one for my car dashboard Aug 16 06:05:31 how do i turn this damn device OFF Aug 16 06:05:59 PuffTheMagic: bootie shouldn't be letting it go on until it's got a lot more charge than that Aug 16 06:06:17 i see the battery Aug 16 06:06:20 then it trys and boot Aug 16 06:06:24 and it keeps doing that Aug 16 06:07:45 this is not good Aug 16 06:07:57 geist: the logic for keeping the pre charging and not booting linux until it's charged enough for a full boot and powerd to take over, that's in bootie, right? Aug 16 06:08:05 so a custom kernel shouldn't affect it Aug 16 06:08:19 right Aug 16 06:08:25 i used setenv anyway Aug 16 06:08:31 which is for 1 boot Aug 16 06:09:41 PuffTheMagic: bizarre.. have you tried pulling the battery for a second? Aug 16 06:09:51 hey! Aug 16 06:10:13 it really should have been charging a lot longer than you said it was, if it was drained Aug 16 06:10:14 y does my client show that there are no people in this room? Aug 16 06:10:22 geist: does it charge in recovery mode? Aug 16 06:11:11 livewire1337: uh, because your client is broken? Aug 16 06:11:19 guys, is the pre's boottime "fixable"...? Aug 16 06:11:35 its not broken Aug 16 06:11:55 im using pidgin. #webos i see all the people in room Aug 16 06:11:59 lol, i mean, can it be shortened? Aug 16 06:12:08 no Aug 16 06:12:27 its mosly luna that takes forever Aug 16 06:12:29 PuffTheMagic: no Aug 16 06:12:32 kernel boots fast Aug 16 06:12:32 Decimation: by palm, it can, potentially. the bulk of the time is luna Aug 16 06:12:37 geist: PuffTheMagic: no Aug 16 06:13:03 i love my palm pre Aug 16 06:13:03 geist: its staying on longer in recovery mode than it does trying to boot :D Aug 16 06:13:29 it's not using muhc power in reocvery mode Aug 16 06:13:30 but it Aug 16 06:13:44 it's not charging, its running off of usb essentially Aug 16 06:13:59 is it possible to run shell scripts from javascript? Aug 16 06:16:16 any help Aug 16 06:16:18 ? Aug 16 06:16:38 livewire1337: study the wiki, and know thy webOS ;) Aug 16 06:17:11 livewire1337: basically, no Aug 16 06:17:24 livewire1337: but you shouldn't want to run shell scripts from javascript, either Aug 16 06:17:40 i feel like every time i take the back shell off the pre, the slider part feels more like an oreo Aug 16 06:17:43 then how are poeple making root-required apps? Aug 16 06:17:45 like its gonna twist right apart Aug 16 06:17:56 PuffTheMagic: just read pg 166+ of Palm webOS, and all appears to work ok (for add/get/prefs) Aug 16 06:18:12 like the flash light torch app Aug 16 06:18:12 what do u mean read it Aug 16 06:18:16 livewire1337: browser plugins and system services accomplish the lower level stuff for you Aug 16 06:18:18 and it appears to work Aug 16 06:18:23 rwhitby, oil: so with preware, it is just going to check each app for dependencies, then if you download.. it will also download the service? Aug 16 06:18:25 i tried to code it Aug 16 06:18:28 and it cant get it to work Aug 16 06:18:31 i read it, and implemted the sample code in prefs, and it works Aug 16 06:18:31 so... idk Aug 16 06:18:43 using database or depot? Aug 16 06:18:47 depot Aug 16 06:18:57 well try it in the terminal app then Aug 16 06:19:17 ok so my pre is fucked Aug 16 06:19:21 it wont boot back into webos Aug 16 06:19:27 http://pastebin.com/d527e73c9 Aug 16 06:19:28 since webos runs off linux and adobe has a linux based Flash is it possible that would work on the pre? Aug 16 06:19:41 PuffTheMagic: you win! Aug 16 06:20:26 PuffTheMagic: I wonder if you managed while running your custom kernel to drain the battery past normal safe levels, but your kernel and powerd weren't talking for it to know that and shut things down Aug 16 06:21:13 right Aug 16 06:21:22 it generally assumes that when the system starts up it Aug 16 06:21:31 it'll pretty mu8ch immediatelyt start charging Aug 16 06:21:56 so the threshold in bootie to let it boot is tuned for that Aug 16 06:22:21 livewire1337: unlikely, as Adobe has only released x86 and amd64 Linux binaries of flash, and the Pre is neither Aug 16 06:22:46 ooo Aug 16 06:22:47 if i pop the battery out while its plugged into the charger and its already booted Aug 16 06:22:51 will is stay running Aug 16 06:22:55 or does it need the battery? Aug 16 06:23:04 it needs the battery Aug 16 06:23:10 double lame Aug 16 06:23:15 livewire1337: you may be able to get it working in the emulator, though Aug 16 06:23:31 nice! but pointless Aug 16 06:23:36 exactly Aug 16 06:23:44 high instantaneous needs of the radio Aug 16 06:23:56 the battery acts like a large enough capacitor to ride through the relatively Aug 16 06:24:27 (reverse those two sentences) Aug 16 06:24:30 so if bootie is in charge of the safe mode charge Aug 16 06:24:35 why dont it charge in recovery mode Aug 16 06:24:49 because i was too lazy to implement that before shipping Aug 16 06:24:59 :/ Aug 16 06:25:08 its not not charging Aug 16 06:25:15 its just not doing Optimal Charging Aug 16 06:25:38 charging in the bootloader is actually a complete bitch Aug 16 06:25:54 and safe mode charging is relatively safe, since it'll get into linux soon enough Aug 16 06:25:54 so if i leave it in recovery mode it will charge a little bit? Aug 16 06:26:07 its rebooted like 100 times now Aug 16 06:26:11 but since it can sit in recovery for essentially forever, its easier not to charge there Aug 16 06:26:13 using safe mode charge Aug 16 06:26:23 I know there's something -- if you try to use recovery mode to flash it'll hold off until battery is charged, so I figured, yeah it charges.. Aug 16 06:26:25 it gets to about luna start Aug 16 06:26:27 and it dies Aug 16 06:26:29 otherwise it has to do it the really safe way, to make sure it doesnt do anything bad Aug 16 06:26:47 so its easier to just not charge in recovery mode because its not supposed to sit there very long Aug 16 06:27:07 I think the logic for that is in doctor though Aug 16 06:27:13 exactly Aug 16 06:27:21 wait what did I miss? Aug 16 06:27:26 whenever charging and batteries are involved, things start getrting squirrely Aug 16 06:27:27 run dr? Aug 16 06:27:33 where lawyers are involved, etc Aug 16 06:27:34 PuffTheMagic: actually yeah Aug 16 06:27:39 PuffTheMagic: that might do it Aug 16 06:27:44 you gotta do a bunch of stuff to make sure it doesnt do anything bad Aug 16 06:27:58 we need a dipshit charge mode Aug 16 06:28:00 so its usually safer to just not hit the high charger until you have to Aug 16 06:28:00 for those like me Aug 16 06:28:04 wat are some of the bad things that could happen Aug 16 06:28:16 stuff Aug 16 06:28:24 PuffTheMagic: because doctor has the battery paranoid reflash mode it'll give you a meter for how much your battery has charged Aug 16 06:28:32 you guys talking about chargin via usb or via touchstone? Aug 16 06:28:45 or in genreal Aug 16 06:29:01 i want that mode Aug 16 06:29:10 in a regular app Aug 16 06:29:18 its not that easy Aug 16 06:29:30 due to a wonky design on the pre, the modem actually controlls charging Aug 16 06:29:36 wow Aug 16 06:29:49 so you have to boot the modem and talk to it via a proprietary set of commands Aug 16 06:30:27 if you dont tell it to charge it'll default to 100mA trickle charge Aug 16 06:30:31 dr cant even talk to my phone Aug 16 06:30:36 thats the little bit of charging recovery mode does Aug 16 06:30:38 PuffTheMagic: but I think that means that since it does charge in recovery mode, just not fast, you can leave it trickle charging for a while Aug 16 06:30:53 a long while Aug 16 06:31:43 hey git pull works now Aug 16 06:31:58 geist did u get all this info by just snooping around the pre? seems like you know a lot of special stuff. Aug 16 06:32:04 livewire1337: lol Aug 16 06:32:11 livewire1337: he should Aug 16 06:32:19 ahh dr is charging the phone now Aug 16 06:32:57 yeah dr is punching some commands down to bootie to tell it to charge > 100 Aug 16 06:33:07 which i wont tell you how Aug 16 06:33:12 :/ Aug 16 06:33:13 dont want you mucking with that Aug 16 06:33:26 you dfont want to dick with batteries and charging Aug 16 06:33:31 I fear I must run the webOS doctor :( Aug 16 06:33:38 though the hardware has a lot of safety mechanisms built in Aug 16 06:33:47 is dr. gonna prompt me to continue once the battery is charged Aug 16 06:33:51 its still dicey for me to tell you how to mess with it Aug 16 06:33:54 PuffTheMagic: yes Aug 16 06:34:09 i think it gets it up to 25 or 30 percent or so Aug 16 06:34:11 geist do u work for palm or something? Aug 16 06:34:15 livewire1337: yes Aug 16 06:34:17 im at 28 :D Aug 16 06:34:25 niiice! Aug 16 06:34:53 Hey all! Aug 16 06:34:58 hey! Aug 16 06:35:01 PuffTheMagic: anyway, there are a bunch of ways to put the pre into electrically invalid situations thatd cause it to spontaneously reboot like that Aug 16 06:35:09 Anybody want to help me out with Checkers for the next 20 minutes :D Aug 16 06:35:10 Haha Aug 16 06:35:17 update app says "Unable To connect" :( fail Aug 16 06:35:22 which is why tossing new kernels on devices is not as cut n dry as youre probably thinking Aug 16 06:35:36 geist: i dont know why it died like, g_composite was loaded and i had charge icon Aug 16 06:36:08 well, what have you mucked with? Aug 16 06:36:34 geist: I've heard smartphones referred to as a complex power management device that also happens to have phone capabilities. ;) Aug 16 06:36:43 destinal: pretty much Aug 16 06:36:48 geist: nothing, just trying to get a fully working kernel Aug 16 06:36:52 that i compiled my self Aug 16 06:37:00 used stock palm patch Aug 16 06:37:07 we spent most of the time messing with power management Aug 16 06:37:22 getting it to work is not the hardest problem, getting the power low is Aug 16 06:37:33 oh i did change something Aug 16 06:37:34 wats special about your special kernal Aug 16 06:37:36 :) Aug 16 06:37:36 batteries need to evolve faster.. Aug 16 06:37:51 they are, problem is everyone wants smaller phones Aug 16 06:38:07 so the capacities are more or less keepiong up with the size reductions Aug 16 06:38:12 battery capacities today really aren't pound for pound THAT much better than many years ago Aug 16 06:38:24 yah, and the energy density is pretty amazing Aug 16 06:38:38 today's batteries suck and they could be better but they aren't Aug 16 06:38:56 i disagree, the batteries are quite amazing Aug 16 06:39:11 the amount of energy crammed in there is amazing Aug 16 06:39:24 tech hasn't changed in years, energy density improvements have been microscopic compared to years ago Aug 16 06:39:36 destinal are you still here? Aug 16 06:39:41 geist: i forgot i changed the default VDD1 and VDD2 OPP levels Aug 16 06:39:42 * geist shrugs Aug 16 06:39:52 PuffTheMagic: ah, thatll probably do it Aug 16 06:39:56 geist: I guess it's all relative though Aug 16 06:39:58 i lowered them ;) Aug 16 06:40:00 dick with that and youre off in unstableland Aug 16 06:40:13 destinal: can you help me with your hack? this one http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_Launcher_To_Allow_More_Icons_Per_Row Aug 16 06:40:20 PuffTheMagic: *that* is why bootie wasn't waiting long enough Aug 16 06:40:24 I was wondering Aug 16 06:40:33 whoa shoot gotta pslit again Aug 16 06:40:49 trim81: the directions should be on the wiki for how to do it Aug 16 06:40:57 AgentSmith: the cutting-edge phone I had 10 years ago had a battery physically 3x the size of the pre and used maybe 10% of the power the pre does, and battery life was comparable Aug 16 06:41:13 3x the size of the pre's battery, that is Aug 16 06:41:14 hey giest do you have any idea how many early access partners there are? Aug 16 06:41:34 no and i couldnt tell you if i knew Aug 16 06:41:35 livewire1337: that's chuq's area Aug 16 06:42:09 and anyway everyone has the SDK now so the early access program is less important Aug 16 06:42:16 how wobbly are your guys pre's when they are closed? Aug 16 06:42:35 PuffTheMagic: a degree or two each way Aug 16 06:42:36 geist: so is power mgmt an area that tne next webos update will address? maybe get scaling + smartreflex working? Aug 16 06:42:38 but the early access partners are teh only ones that can submit apps right now Aug 16 06:42:50 jauderho: dunno Aug 16 06:42:59 i think we got the kernel so that its the least of the power concerns Aug 16 06:43:06 anything farther and its just microamps Aug 16 06:43:07 destinal: mine only does it in 1 direction Aug 16 06:43:20 but seems worse each tme i take the back off Aug 16 06:43:32 versus the radio and any given app using cpu Aug 16 06:43:47 well the conservative governor was not compiled in and it looks like more recent kernels have had additional patches to cpufreq Aug 16 06:43:50 at some poiont youre just adding potential instability Aug 16 06:44:08 it doesnt do as much as youd think on the omap Aug 16 06:44:14 also wondering if there was a reason not to use CONFIG_PREEMPT Aug 16 06:44:23 youre pretty much better off running as fast as you can and just drop it to zero asap Aug 16 06:44:40 thats mostly because there are a pile of drivers from ti that are not preempt safe Aug 16 06:44:50 I see Aug 16 06:44:58 though our experience is that preempt doesnt necessary buy you anything Aug 16 06:45:08 latency isnt a big concern Aug 16 06:45:48 pandora laggs a lot Aug 16 06:46:17 but future kernels we ship will probably have preempt fixed Aug 16 06:46:20 I would think it might be since certain things/actions are still choppy. Aug 16 06:46:33 nah, most of those arent kernel latency issues Aug 16 06:46:47 especailly when you minimize it and it starts to bring up the dashboard notification Aug 16 06:46:58 I'm using the userspace cpuspeed now and it seems to help somewhat. Aug 16 06:46:59 luna has a lot of potential latency issues as do the apps at some point. the number of abstractions we're dealing with between kernel and app is amazing Aug 16 06:47:08 rright Aug 16 06:47:27 once we get up to a newer kernel and get preempt fixed it'll be interesting to see Aug 16 06:47:32 I'll bet Aug 16 06:47:39 but as it stands we cant build preempt right now, so its kind of academic Aug 16 06:47:39 I'm actually really impressed that they're able to do so much in javascript on such a small device Aug 16 06:47:55 geist: p=9 ca=99200..... what is the ca referring to Aug 16 06:47:58 what units is that Aug 16 06:47:59 harmony is due for an update too since the version that palm is using is rather old. Aug 16 06:48:00 and I'm sure the v8 js engine has a lot to do with it Aug 16 06:48:05 i think its arbitrary Aug 16 06:48:15 its straight from the coulomb counter in the battery Aug 16 06:48:17 wait, the pre uses the v8 engine? Aug 16 06:48:23 yes Aug 16 06:48:23 jauderho: yes Aug 16 06:48:23 ahh Aug 16 06:48:25 Yep Aug 16 06:48:30 American Muscle Aug 16 06:48:31 any idea when a lower level api will be available? maybe before next summer? Aug 16 06:48:32 i have preempt enabled on my kernel too Aug 16 06:48:36 seems to piss off the alsa drivers Aug 16 06:48:40 and pulseaudio Aug 16 06:48:42 PuffTheMagic: oh oh dont do that Aug 16 06:48:42 LS9 V8 in the Pre Aug 16 06:48:42 livewire1337: there's been no announcements Aug 16 06:48:48 lol Aug 16 06:48:49 it actually booted? thats amazing Aug 16 06:48:57 yeah it runs fine Aug 16 06:48:59 last time i built it with preempt it didnt even make it past post Aug 16 06:49:00 well it did Aug 16 06:49:00 LS9 bah. I'm a boxer guy myself =) Aug 16 06:49:08 is it at least something that palm has planned? Aug 16 06:49:10 PuffTheMagic: well no, you said it exploded after a little bit Aug 16 06:49:18 true Aug 16 06:49:29 look, if i were you id try building a completely stock kernel, exactly like we do first Aug 16 06:49:35 get that working, then start dicking with things Aug 16 06:49:38 but i think that was the VDD changes Aug 16 06:49:51 but generally speaking if you think something is wonky how were doing it, its probably for a reason Aug 16 06:49:57 geist: i am working on a stock kernel Aug 16 06:49:59 well i did run that Aug 16 06:50:05 i didnt couldnt use wireless Aug 16 06:50:08 or the power button Aug 16 06:50:09 livewire1337: you can already get access to some of the low level stuff the way we do. an official sdk is probably going to happen eventually too but it's likely to be a long way off Aug 16 06:50:09 geist so v8 is already part of the browser now or is it scheduled to go in? Aug 16 06:50:16 jauderho: already Aug 16 06:50:26 its really the only way alkl the javascript would work Aug 16 06:50:28 jauderho: boxer's are awesome but it's not a V8 ;) Aug 16 06:50:32 livewire1337: in webos-internals we're playing with system services and browser plugins for low level stuff and that will expand Aug 16 06:50:36 it was part of the Master Plan Aug 16 06:50:52 depending on which boxer. I'm talking german boxer not japanese. Aug 16 06:51:44 also part of the reaosn all of this works is the omap is really a pretty powerful arm cpu Aug 16 06:51:50 if v8 is already in, I would have expected sunspider performance to be a lot closer to iphone 3gs. Aug 16 06:51:52 the l2 cache is the key to the whole thing Aug 16 06:52:11 it's still over 3x slower the last time I tried. Aug 16 06:52:18 * geist shrugs Aug 16 06:52:23 dunno man, talkin to the wrong guy Aug 16 06:52:43 i'm a low level arm/kernel guy Aug 16 06:52:58 i just help get those other guys to waste all our pretty cycles we give em Aug 16 06:53:04 lol Aug 16 06:53:54 well I'll look forward to seeing preempt in and whatever power improvements you can extract then. Aug 16 06:54:08 dont expect too much Aug 16 06:54:09 Wish to HELL that google had exposed a way to trigger garbage collection FROM the javascript interpretor so you could DECIDE when you could handle a 300ms pause.... Aug 16 06:54:14 its already pretty good in kernel land Aug 16 06:54:26 jauderho: I bet the next dramatic improvements will come from luna Aug 16 06:54:33 geist - yeah, but the userland people have "rather a lot they can improve" :-) Aug 16 06:54:41 exactly Aug 16 06:54:46 well luna does take a LOT of cycles =) Aug 16 06:54:57 and the cpu is by far the largest user of power Aug 16 06:55:09 these newer cpus have a pretty high instantaneous power hit Aug 16 06:55:21 and its just getting more and more pronounced with each newer generation Aug 16 06:55:25 and when egaudet and I were reading framework to try to do that on screen keyboard it became VERY clear that there were multiple teams on luna with multiple standards. Aug 16 06:55:42 like between 0 - 300mA Aug 16 06:55:44 so, I expect that the luna folks will be "regularizing" code for quite a while Aug 16 06:55:59 there are quite a few changes with harmony between M4 and M10 Aug 16 06:56:05 someone called it 'design debt' Aug 16 06:56:27 you go into design debt to get 1.0 out the door, spend the next year payingt it back Aug 16 06:56:35 Damn and blast! I have to do a partial reset Aug 16 06:56:35 yep Aug 16 06:56:42 Boy do I know about that. Aug 16 06:56:43 woohoo for a night of reinstalling apps Aug 16 06:56:56 o fpm Aug 16 06:57:08 lucky for me I did a cp -R on /var/usr/palm/applications :D Aug 16 06:57:27 at some point you have to ship. Aug 16 06:57:38 you can't keep working internally forever. Aug 16 06:57:45 yep Aug 16 06:57:45 and shipping ALWAYS comes to early. Aug 16 06:58:04 someone told me that if you shipped it the way you wanted to, then you waited too long Aug 16 06:58:09 how do just 1 patch in quilt? Aug 16 06:58:09 I remember one project where the money guy made a public announcement ONE YEAR EARLY Aug 16 06:58:20 has palm thought about just realesing 1 webos model and improving it each year? kind of like the iphone? Aug 16 06:58:43 dunno, cant talk about future stuffs Aug 16 06:59:36 livewire: why dont you ask about opengl =) =) Aug 16 06:59:40 just kidding Aug 16 06:59:47 hehe Aug 16 06:59:56 lol Aug 16 06:59:56 yeah Aug 16 07:00:01 I think shipping has to come too early Aug 16 07:00:05 otherwise you'd never ship Aug 16 07:00:13 yep Aug 16 07:00:30 it was funny today. Some guy posted on the Palm developer forums that he was working on an arcade game and he figured that it was the first arcade game for the pre written so far. :-) Aug 16 07:00:37 haha Aug 16 07:01:04 I ((cough cough)) disabused him of that notion. Aug 16 07:01:35 even with terminal we didn't assume we made the first luna-based terminal in a browser plugin.. someone at palm probably did that years before I heard of webos :) Aug 16 07:02:06 I guess to say first third party one might be true Aug 16 07:02:14 actually youd be surprised Aug 16 07:02:22 to this day we still dont have an in house terminal app Aug 16 07:03:00 wow, it would be cool to think that some folks at palm might run our app on their pre's :) Aug 16 07:03:18 lol yea Aug 16 07:03:19 geist did you work on the bluetooth bits too? Aug 16 07:03:41 no Aug 16 07:03:45 I like how the sniffer was implemented =) Aug 16 07:04:02 bluetoof and wifi were done by the hw team Aug 16 07:04:14 I'm sure there are interesting historical reasons behind why palm made a bt stack. just surprising that it wasn't done with bluez Aug 16 07:04:19 i see Aug 16 07:04:29 destinal: agreed Aug 16 07:04:34 yeah, there some history there Aug 16 07:04:39 i think essentially bluez isn Aug 16 07:04:40 geist: can i assume p= from booties is the charge percentage? Aug 16 07:04:46 if it was bluez, would be a lot easier to add profiles Aug 16 07:04:46 isnt ready yet Aug 16 07:04:54 I figure a lot had to do with where it was two years ago too Aug 16 07:04:56 SPP etc. Aug 16 07:04:59 yah Aug 16 07:05:08 we can't think of current state for everything we're looking at, how we'd do it if we started today. Aug 16 07:05:21 I want my BT keyboard support ! =) Aug 16 07:05:33 jauderho: shouldn't be that hard Aug 16 07:05:36 that would be pretty neat Aug 16 07:05:43 i want obex push and vcards Aug 16 07:05:46 jauderho: but you'd have to kill the palm stack which would initially be bad Aug 16 07:05:48 not with the current bt setup Aug 16 07:06:04 PuffTheMagic: there IS obex and vcard in palm's stuff it seems Aug 16 07:06:07 based on strings anyway Aug 16 07:06:13 i want a way to turn on airpalmne mode but leave on wifi Aug 16 07:06:28 i'm pretty sure that bt stack is licensed from someone Aug 16 07:06:32 destinal: well wouldnt it be nice if they used it Aug 16 07:06:35 I did confirm that the pre will push phonebook to a porsche Aug 16 07:06:41 coz that's important =) Aug 16 07:06:45 niice! Aug 16 07:06:50 livewire: I'm pretty sure you can Aug 16 07:06:56 turn on airplane mode first Aug 16 07:06:58 jauderho: that's over obex? Aug 16 07:07:00 then wifi Aug 16 07:07:17 ah good ol obex. dealt with that years ago at danger Aug 16 07:07:22 to support the irda port, which we never used Aug 16 07:07:26 but still stuffed for a while Aug 16 07:07:32 destinal. probably not Aug 16 07:07:40 : jauderho oh! haha just tired! it works Aug 16 07:07:41 probably HFP/HSP Aug 16 07:07:56 livewire: I think I tried it a while ago. Aug 16 07:08:19 * PuffTheMagic wonders how long it will take for my screen to twist off Aug 16 07:08:43 you were at danger? is that why one of the backgrounds is of moraine lake? android had that as a background too Aug 16 07:08:56 its a pretty small bay area Aug 16 07:09:28 be/danger/palmsource/iphone/nupalm is a lot of the same folks Aug 16 07:09:28 true Aug 16 07:09:40 later, ima go play my copy of sc2 beta Aug 16 07:09:48 I also like how the program for flashing is called trenchcoat Aug 16 07:10:05 some good humor there. Aug 16 07:10:05 for a while we actually had a picture of a guy with an open trenchcoat Aug 16 07:10:09 LOL Aug 16 07:10:11 seen from behind Aug 16 07:10:15 root@castle:/var/home/root# trenchcoat --help Aug 16 07:10:15 trenchcoat - used for flashing (storage, not body parts) Aug 16 07:10:38 oh and bootie da bootloader isn Aug 16 07:10:43 isn't funny enough? Aug 16 07:10:56 at transmeta, we had a modified gcc compiler and the option for turning on the code packer (aka spanker) was --with-bendover Aug 16 07:11:10 yeah, so you use trenchcoat to flash bootie? Aug 16 07:11:27 trenchcoat flashes everything Aug 16 07:11:28 (along with the rest of the flash device) :) Aug 16 07:11:33 *nods* Aug 16 07:11:38 though bootie can also flash itself Aug 16 07:11:52 but only use that in development Aug 16 07:12:05 so for those who care, /usr/bin/palmsniffer is the BT sniffer Aug 16 07:12:19 haha, palm sniffer Aug 16 07:12:25 telnet to port 16888 to start the log Aug 16 07:12:31 telnet to port 16889 to stop Aug 16 07:13:23 man I can't wait for chrome for mac to become official. firefox is now officially horrible on the mac Aug 16 07:13:26 yeah the /usr/bin/Pm* is all Bt, Modem, and WiFi stuff Aug 16 07:13:30 nothing else uses that convention Aug 16 07:13:48 eh, cert management also Aug 16 07:14:49 yeah old palm stuff tended to prefix everything with Pm Aug 16 07:15:01 i had nothing to do with that, seemed kind of extraneous Aug 16 07:15:17 so we went o8ut of our way to name stuff to buck the trend Aug 16 07:15:25 heh Aug 16 07:15:33 that's just great Aug 16 07:16:01 um /usr/bin/[ ??!? Aug 16 07:16:16 look in yer linux box Aug 16 07:17:59 bet you didnt know that was there did ya Aug 16 07:18:04 its because shell stuff like Aug 16 07:18:17 doh I forgot all about those. Aug 16 07:18:34 if [ blah ... actually ends up just starting [ with arguments Aug 16 07:18:37 yeah, a lot of shells have [ as a builtin now Aug 16 07:18:45 but it's a legacy thing for those that don't Aug 16 07:18:50 right Aug 16 07:19:02 in our case im sure its symlinked to busybox Aug 16 07:19:40 geist: are you in the same building as the wifi people? Aug 16 07:19:44 no Aug 16 07:19:54 across the street Aug 16 07:20:06 throw a rock at them for me Aug 16 07:20:16 i want open wifi drivers ;) Aug 16 07:20:22 meh Aug 16 07:20:25 it works Aug 16 07:20:38 i doubt its their fault Aug 16 07:20:45 and I'm impressed with the lack of questions about WPA vs WEP vs WPA2 when setting up Aug 16 07:20:48 it just works. Aug 16 07:20:56 yeah that is nice Aug 16 07:21:05 I would rather the camera get fixed. Aug 16 07:21:11 the color balance is HORRIBLE. Aug 16 07:21:18 PuffTheMagic: in recent kernels apparently there's a marvell driver that's OSS Aug 16 07:21:29 wpasupplication handles the wpa/wpa2 stuff really nicely Aug 16 07:21:37 in .24 there is one Aug 16 07:21:39 libtertas Aug 16 07:21:44 i just cant get it to work Aug 16 07:22:00 i dont even get a firmware issue Aug 16 07:22:06 it just dont do anything when i load it Aug 16 07:22:37 geist : did palm ever try different tcp_congestion control schemes? Aug 16 07:22:43 dunno Aug 16 07:23:03 jauderho: once i get a kernel built where wifi works and the power button Aug 16 07:23:08 you can play with tcp options :D Aug 16 07:23:46 I did build a kernel but have not gotten around to trying it. Aug 16 07:24:12 I like that webos doctor works on any platform novacom does, so even though there's no official linux doctor, if you have the novacom package installed, you can just run the doctor jar and off you go Aug 16 07:24:34 thanks, a lot of that is my design Aug 16 07:24:42 net.ipv4.tcp_tw_recycle for instance could probably be set. Aug 16 07:24:43 i didnt realize doctor needed the sdk Aug 16 07:24:47 i thought it just worked Aug 16 07:24:52 hahahah opendns blocks https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console Aug 16 07:24:55 PuffTheMagic: novacom package only not full sdk required Aug 16 07:24:56 i really learned from past experience that having a single mechanism to do all that comes in handle Aug 16 07:25:01 handy Aug 16 07:25:23 and its definitely going to be the same for all future stuff, one mechanism to bind them all together Aug 16 07:25:55 geist: I like the way you think :) Aug 16 07:26:05 the factory runs essentially a modified version of the dr, 16 devices in parallel per machine Aug 16 07:26:18 just a different front end, the underlying code is all the same Aug 16 07:26:52 geist: they can just omap usb boot and bootie talks to the doctor / novacom stuff to do it all, I imagine Aug 16 07:27:00 yep Aug 16 07:27:06 nice Aug 16 07:27:17 plug it in and it'll auto install Aug 16 07:28:37 its more like the dr is a simplified version of the factory tool, which is why the java libs have extrea bits in there that arent used Aug 16 07:28:57 similarly the sdk builds on top of the same java libs to do app ijnstalls, etc Aug 16 07:29:11 yeah it makes sense that it was designed for factory and adapted to restore and then to sdk :) Aug 16 07:29:31 the whole one infrastructure thing is great Aug 16 07:29:34 well, no it was dwesihnedf that way from the start Aug 16 07:29:43 as an aside, has anyone looked at hacking a character counter for the text messaging app? Aug 16 07:29:47 which is why it may be overengineered for any one task Aug 16 07:30:15 was going to look into that but I rather not duplicate work. Aug 16 07:30:45 geist: a lot less duplication of work (and a lot fewer bugs creep in that way) Aug 16 07:31:13 yeah Aug 16 07:31:26 anyhoo, off for a little bit o wow and sleep Aug 16 07:31:42 geist: cool, good night Aug 16 07:32:47 Decimation: yes, preware and ipkgservice will handle dependencies automatically Aug 16 07:33:06 one ring to rule them all.... Aug 16 07:33:23 geist: will bootie stop sending a charge signal when it gets to 100, like can i go to bed Aug 16 07:33:29 or do i have to watch this thing Aug 16 07:33:42 should be okay Aug 16 07:34:30 k Aug 16 07:34:33 night guys Aug 16 07:34:51 * PuffTheMagic hopes he dont wake up to melted pre Aug 16 07:35:27 or house on fire Aug 16 07:37:22 ooh the touchpanel has its own firmware? Aug 16 07:50:27 PuffTheMagic: i have a working model of save/restore prefs! Aug 16 07:51:21 Zuchmir2: congrats Aug 16 07:51:35 I think a new release is in order Aug 16 07:51:51 a lot of people were complaining about that to the point of reverting to older versions, not fun Aug 16 07:52:00 ... not yet uploaded... Aug 16 07:52:09 ... and it still freezes Aug 16 07:52:21 oh, well I'd hold off until that's fixed then Aug 16 07:52:25 that was the main issue Aug 16 07:52:36 the workaround is.... Aug 16 07:52:44 prefs, close, start again Aug 16 07:52:57 I wonder why it didn't just kill and restart the plugin Aug 16 07:53:06 which is what happened when we used to switch scenes Aug 16 07:53:19 ... or just restart new session Aug 16 07:53:25 right Aug 16 07:53:43 ... which means, if u change color, you loose everything u typed Aug 16 07:54:32 I should get some sleep too Aug 16 07:54:35 good night all Aug 16 07:55:49 god night Aug 16 09:22:14 anybody still hanging out involved with the on-screen keyboard? Aug 16 10:09:32 gm Aug 16 14:17:05 bzhou * r10562 optware/trunk/make/mpd.mk - mpd: 0.15.1 -> 0.15.2 Aug 16 14:20:20 bzhou * r10563 optware/trunk/make/werc.mk - werc: 1.1 -> 1.1.1 Aug 16 15:00:32 fyck Aug 16 15:05:15 please, do go on Aug 16 15:05:54 i cant activate my pre Aug 16 15:06:00 after doing the webosdr Aug 16 15:07:50 someoen else had that prob didnt they Aug 16 15:08:55 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/198163-matrix-theme-2.html#post1826328 Aug 16 15:14:24 Puff what is it doing? Aug 16 15:23:45 morning Aug 16 15:45:11 it is morning, in many places, yes Aug 16 16:09:41 its morning here Aug 16 16:09:43 well close enough Aug 16 16:23:03 jeesh, was athere a netsplit? Aug 16 16:23:07 couldn't do anything for a while Aug 16 16:26:36 I have a question about a patch. Im trying to install QuickEvent app universal search hack and I have the diff file. Can I throw that in quilt's directory and import it as a patch or do I need to do something different? Aug 16 16:28:49 PinkFloyd: the folks who would be able to answer that are mostly asleep Aug 16 16:28:56 except one of them just woke up Aug 16 16:28:59 try asking again. Aug 16 16:29:03 :p Aug 16 16:29:04 destinal Aug 16 16:29:07 I have a question about a patch. Im trying to install QuickEvent app universal search hack and I have the diff file. Can I throw that in quilt's directory and import it as a patch or do I need to do something different? Aug 16 16:29:45 PinkFloyd: this may seem sad, but I honestly don't know much more about quilt or applying patches to webos than is on the wiki Aug 16 16:29:51 not really my area, as it were Aug 16 16:30:32 I've never actually applied a patch to my pre Aug 16 16:30:48 @_@ Aug 16 16:31:41 haha Aug 16 16:32:08 there's enough to do with plugins and services and the really internal stuff (and besides I don't think patches are the right answer) Aug 16 16:32:20 ++ Aug 16 16:32:23 well said Aug 16 16:33:54 Id just like to get this working so that adding calendar events are easier Aug 16 16:34:23 I'm considering whether the best answer is something like "monkey patches" which is an approach to do dynamic patching like cydia's stuff does Aug 16 16:34:24 or if total replacement of apps (even if it's with a new app generated by copying and patching on the device itself) is better Aug 16 16:34:43 ie, if you download MegaDialer, it will work the same for everyone Aug 16 16:35:29 but patch files against the js directly which can conflict can be a nightmare, and I've already seen people having a lot of trouble with it Aug 16 16:35:46 ++ for the copy-n-patch method Aug 16 16:35:50 over just... patching Aug 16 16:37:01 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/198265-quick-event-fast-calender-entry-adder.html Aug 16 16:37:09 There's the link to the app and diff file Aug 16 16:37:46 I guess I could always back up the file and attempt the patch anyway Aug 16 16:37:48 PinkFloyd: have you checked out the section on the wiki where it talks about applying patches and (if you're already using quilt) the stuff on using quilt on a patch file Aug 16 16:37:57 Yep, looking at it right now Aug 16 16:38:19 That's why I was asking if I could just drop this .diff file into quilt's mods directory and apply it Aug 16 16:40:35 PinkFloyd: well, put it this way. find an example of using a .patch file or .diff file (they're the same thing) in the wiki, and it'll apply to ANY .patch / .diff file Aug 16 16:40:48 They look similar Aug 16 16:40:48 regardless of where you got it Aug 16 16:40:54 ++ and -- in front of certain lines Aug 16 16:41:21 PinkFloyd: .patch = .diff (just different extensions for exactly the same thing) Aug 16 16:41:22 and a few @@ Aug 16 16:41:25 k Aug 16 16:41:30 I'll attempt this then Aug 16 16:43:40 Applying patch /opt/src/patches/global-search-assistant.js.patch Aug 16 16:43:40 patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line Aug 16 16:43:40 patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input. Aug 16 16:43:40 Patch /opt/src/patches/global-search-assistant.js.patch does not apply (enforce with -f) Aug 16 16:43:45 -_- Aug 16 16:46:33 sounds like you have a damaged patch Aug 16 16:46:45 great Aug 16 16:46:56 Means the app maker isnt a patch maker Aug 16 16:47:07 and he's posting a damaged patch for everyone to download Aug 16 16:47:09 nodnod Aug 16 16:47:14 that happens. Aug 16 16:47:23 *sigh* Aug 16 16:47:27 webosdoctor isnt working :/ Aug 16 16:48:19 It'd be nice to type "meeting 9a-10a 8/16" in universal search and have it in my calendar instead of going into the calendar itself to add something Aug 16 16:48:53 destinal: ping Aug 16 16:49:35 Zuchmir2: good morning Aug 16 16:49:47 gm Aug 16 16:50:12 did u have a chance to check out the patch for save/restore prefs? Aug 16 16:50:20 PinkFloyd: ask in the forum thread I guess Aug 16 16:50:30 did, thanks for the help though Aug 16 16:51:22 Zuchmir2: haven't, let me check here quickly Aug 16 16:52:09 it takes alot more to crash it now when going out of prefs page - not sure why it still crashes sometimes Aug 16 16:52:58 ... also when changing font sizes for some mysterious reason it scrolls out of view Aug 16 16:53:38 ping Aug 16 16:55:38 rickTest: pong Aug 16 17:04:23 Zuchmir2: u get prefs working? Aug 16 17:06:09 yup Aug 16 17:08:00 PinkFloyd: can you follow the patch instructions BY HAND and patch the file? Aug 16 17:08:15 'cause if not, then the patch is mal-formed. (could be against the wrong version of WebOS Aug 16 17:28:56 Rick-home, that's my next attempt Aug 16 17:30:20 lol, well.. the webos doctor wont work for me. Aug 16 17:30:22 thats great. Aug 16 17:30:30 Decimation: what happens? Aug 16 17:30:41 sometimes it says my phone cant be reset Aug 16 17:30:52 other times it stalls at checking system Aug 16 17:31:13 then sometimes the next button doesnt un-grey so i can click it. Aug 16 17:31:29 i got a replacement pre and i have to send me old one in Aug 16 17:31:33 so i really need to wipe it Aug 16 17:32:15 magnet Aug 16 17:32:19 Rick-home: ive tried everything.. just dont know what to do Aug 16 17:32:29 ok Aug 16 17:32:47 AHHHH Aug 16 17:32:47 welllll Aug 16 17:32:47 ok Aug 16 17:32:53 at what point does it fail? Aug 16 17:33:12 checking system usually just stalls Aug 16 17:33:15 Decimation: have you tried recovery mode? Aug 16 17:33:16 but if it gets past that Aug 16 17:33:20 it will say battery charging Aug 16 17:33:24 then say it cant be reset Aug 16 17:33:43 Decimation: where you hold down volume up and plug in usb? Aug 16 17:33:46 did you do the battery trick? Aug 16 17:33:57 right -- what I was going to ask. Aug 16 17:34:04 hold volup with the usb plugged in and insert the battery, is what I had to do. Aug 16 17:34:12 destinal: no :/ Aug 16 17:34:16 until i removed and put the battery back in it waas acting like decimation's Aug 16 17:34:18 you don't need to mess with battery Aug 16 17:34:22 just power off Aug 16 17:34:22 ^^ Aug 16 17:34:24 unplug usb Aug 16 17:34:31 hold down volume up button Aug 16 17:34:33 i did all that, still same thing. Aug 16 17:34:36 while holding it, plug in usb Aug 16 17:34:44 destinal: there are pre's that require battery out Aug 16 17:34:51 if they are sufficiently borked. Aug 16 17:34:52 ok, so that may be ok too Aug 16 17:35:06 it's probably an issue that they weren't able to really power off Aug 16 17:35:24 okay ill try this Aug 16 17:35:30 phone booting now... Aug 16 17:35:33 battery out unplug volume up plug in battery in run doctor Aug 16 17:35:39 on the brightside, my new pre is purty :) Aug 16 17:35:55 Decimation: does your phone boot normally? Aug 16 17:36:00 yeah Aug 16 17:36:04 if so, you could just do a remote wipe Aug 16 17:36:17 Rick-home: how do i do that? Aug 16 17:36:41 Rick-home: I wouldn't Aug 16 17:36:48 remote wipe is fine for out of the box folks Aug 16 17:36:57 https://ps.palmws.com/palmcsext/console/pages/LoginPage.iface Aug 16 17:37:01 ok Aug 16 17:37:03 but it doesn't wipe the actual fs or get anything outside the expected areas Aug 16 17:37:05 what he said Aug 16 17:37:19 ah Aug 16 17:37:22 so do the battery thing Aug 16 17:37:26 and the doctor will run Aug 16 17:37:50 failing that. log in with novaterm and rm / -r :-) Aug 16 17:38:29 Rick-home: I'd dd if=/dev/random of=(rootfs partition) :) Aug 16 17:39:03 destinal, Rick-home: okay, just holding the volume while plugging in didnt work Aug 16 17:39:08 so what do i need to do with the battery Aug 16 17:39:10 ? Aug 16 17:39:19 Decimation: was it powered off? Aug 16 17:39:27 yeah Aug 16 17:39:40 if you get it right there will be a big usb logo Aug 16 17:40:07 volume up Aug 16 17:40:12 (11:34:04 AM) Rick-home: battery out unplug volume up plug in battery in run doct Aug 16 17:40:38 I have never needed to do that with battery out but it shouldn't hurt. I just power off, hold vol up, plug in usb Aug 16 17:40:52 yeah, i have the usb logo destinal, but then i try and it says "We were unable to reset your phone." Aug 16 17:41:18 Decimation: try restarting novacom service Aug 16 17:43:44 battery trick did it. Aug 16 17:43:52 so far at least.. im farther than before. Aug 16 17:44:13 I keep getting this error when trying to install the terminal: (offline root mode: not running org.webosinternals.terminal.postinst) Aug 16 17:44:26 hopspitfire: that's not an error but expected behavior Aug 16 17:44:31 the -o is offline mode Aug 16 17:44:44 Oops. Aug 16 17:45:10 Well, the problem I'm having is that it's logging me in automatically Aug 16 17:45:22 well, i have a brand new pre, all modded up, and im satisfied :) Aug 16 17:45:27 I thought it was something wrong with the way I was installing it. Aug 16 17:45:29 hopspitfire: that's a feature in the new version, is it bad? Aug 16 17:46:20 before we were calling /bin/login and validating credentials even though we had already been running as root Aug 16 17:46:35 YES, if my phone gets in the hands someone, all they need to do is run a process list and they'll see that I'm running a gps tracker. Aug 16 17:46:41 aha Aug 16 17:46:49 destinal, Rick-home, now I'm stuck at this Aug 16 17:46:51 http://is.gd/2jSyF Aug 16 17:46:59 percent hasnt increased for minutes Aug 16 17:47:11 Any way I can revert to 0.1.6? Aug 16 17:47:30 Decimation: that's fine Aug 16 17:47:43 Decimation: it may take anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour from here. Aug 16 17:47:52 hopspitfire: yeah, and I'll consider that a feature request, maybe we need a terminal conf file or something Aug 16 17:48:07 Yeah, that would be really nice :) Aug 16 17:48:29 bbl Aug 16 17:48:51 Decimation: the pre will not start the doctor until the battery is more completely charged Aug 16 17:48:55 then the process will go on. Aug 16 17:49:07 we need to have 0.1.7 removed from the repo Aug 16 17:49:07 hopspitfire: do you leave dev mode running btw? Aug 16 17:49:15 Rick-home: okay, thanks for the info Aug 16 17:49:20 destinal: i do Aug 16 17:49:24 Nope, I closed that up right away Aug 16 17:49:32 did I see geist here a moment ago? Aug 16 17:49:35 ipkg refuses to downgrade .. Aug 16 17:50:35 hopspitfire: well still, your thief can konami code and then novaterm, but I guess that's harder than just clicking the term icon Aug 16 17:50:49 you don't leave it pinlocked? Aug 16 17:51:21 there's another code other than the konami code Aug 16 17:51:28 20090606 Aug 16 17:51:47 destinal: I don't think the gf would like that one ;) and it's annoying to type a code every time I want to do something Aug 16 17:51:53 yeah yeah, but I unambiguously identified what I mean right? :) Aug 16 17:52:01 destinal:But that's probably the way to go anyway Aug 16 17:52:11 well the thing is Aug 16 17:52:22 your gps tracker is likely to work for longer without a pinlock Aug 16 17:52:29 since they won't have a need to wipe it as fast Aug 16 17:52:47 That's true. Aug 16 17:52:48 so it's a balancing act Aug 16 17:53:03 gotta use the sneaky factor Aug 16 17:53:22 And the konami code is a bit too obscure to people who don't know about the Pre. Whereas a terminal is much more familiar Aug 16 17:54:06 oil, rwhitby: you told me how to start the ipkg service, and it was like, a workaround till you can start it automatically... what was the command again, i can't seem to find it. Aug 16 17:55:14 Decimation: just luna-send it something Aug 16 17:56:04 destinal: i dont know what to send :/ i'm an uber noobbb :) Aug 16 17:56:32 Decimation: so you know the standard rescan command everyone uses? Just modify it to call our service, one sec Aug 16 17:56:36 destinal: thanks for your clarification, I gotta run but I'll play with it some more. Aug 16 17:57:43 destinal: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Aug 16 17:57:46 luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/list {} Aug 16 17:58:58 destinal: how do i do "{}" on the on-device terminal Aug 16 17:59:12 uh, you don't Aug 16 17:59:20 just change {} to "a" Aug 16 17:59:30 or 42, or anything Aug 16 18:00:25 just so long as there's a parameter it doesn't matter what it is for this specific function call Aug 16 18:00:59 Decimation: we need to add a lot of support for additional keys on the emulator, alas Aug 16 18:01:45 heh, yup. Aug 16 18:02:07 the preware app is looking cool. Aug 16 18:02:44 yeah, oil's made some good progress on it Aug 16 18:03:21 bbl for real this time :) Aug 16 18:19:36 anyone familiar with setting up cron and then gps tracker script? Aug 16 18:24:35 destinal, PuffTheMagic: just fixed the small font issue (was off the screen), and the flicker (durring startup) Aug 16 18:27:43 hopspitfire is, but he's not here right now Aug 16 18:27:51 you might msg him on his talk page on the wiki Aug 16 18:27:56 mrloserpunk: Aug 16 18:29:20 Zuchmir2: we need to resize on orientation change Aug 16 18:29:52 yeah why is hospitfire never on irc Aug 16 18:29:56 but always on the wiki Aug 16 18:39:30 i will be sure to do so, thanks! Aug 16 18:44:44 has anyone been successful in updating the on screen keyboard to the newest version Aug 16 18:45:06 nope Aug 16 18:45:22 i dont havethe on dcreen keybaord installed Aug 16 18:45:47 i think the file he uploaded to git isnt the right one because i dont have orange sym and shift Aug 16 18:49:03 anyone? Aug 16 18:51:51 anyone here get popupSubmenu working? Aug 16 18:52:47 i did last night Aug 16 18:52:50 its a real pita let me tall you Aug 16 18:58:20 how did u get it to work? Aug 16 18:58:46 lots of hard work Aug 16 18:58:53 im trying to have a popupSumenu come on on a listTap event Aug 16 18:59:21 so in the listener, put the popup widget setup code Aug 16 18:59:39 heres my forum post with my code: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1251 Aug 16 19:00:23 that does nothing Aug 16 19:00:47 i even put together a zip file with a test app with what im talking about Aug 16 19:01:29 first, i would say remove the .bind after the onchoose function Aug 16 19:01:31 oil u checking thatout? Aug 16 19:01:38 ok Aug 16 19:01:45 then add a toggleCmd Aug 16 19:01:56 and you probably want placeNear: event.target, Aug 16 19:17:55 has anyone gotten the new version of the on screen keyboard to work? Aug 16 19:18:13 nope Aug 16 19:18:33 we think that at 0300 egaudet pushed the wrong version to the repositor Aug 16 19:18:40 when hegets back we'll ask him Aug 16 19:18:44 oh okay Aug 16 19:18:47 sounds good Aug 16 19:18:55 get the pitchforks! Aug 16 19:19:00 because when i push the button thats supposed to be orange Aug 16 19:19:03 alert the town! Aug 16 19:19:04 it just types orange Aug 16 19:19:11 here Aug 16 19:19:14 what did my drunk ass do Aug 16 19:19:18 lol Aug 16 19:19:18 haha Aug 16 19:19:28 cant get the new keyboard to show up :( Aug 16 19:20:21 hmm ok, let me check it out, does anything happen a blank box or anything? Aug 16 19:20:43 well i mean when i push the button thats supposed to be orange Aug 16 19:20:49 it just types orange in the textbox Aug 16 19:21:04 and i dont have shift buttons sym Aug 16 19:21:04 oh yea, orange doesn't work yet Aug 16 19:21:23 shift is yen symbol and sym is upside down ? Aug 16 19:21:52 okay well i have shift then Aug 16 19:22:04 when i push the upside down ? it doesnt do anything Aug 16 19:22:04 lol Aug 16 19:22:18 nvm Aug 16 19:22:21 it just worked Aug 16 19:22:23 im stupid Aug 16 19:22:33 sorry Aug 16 19:22:52 no it's not user friendly atm, just working on getting the functionality down Aug 16 19:22:59 in the precentral thread, someone posted images of a keyboard Aug 16 19:23:01 hey oil Aug 16 19:23:07 are you planning on implementing them? Aug 16 19:23:09 this is my code now: Aug 16 19:23:09 FirstAssistant.prototype.handleListTap = function (event) { Aug 16 19:23:09 Aug 16 19:23:09 this.sceneController.popupSubmenu({ Aug 16 19:23:09 items: [{label: 'Copy1', command: 'c1-cmd'}, Aug 16 19:23:10 {label: 'Copy2', command: 'c2-cmd'}, Aug 16 19:23:12 {label: 'View Fullscreen', command: 'fullscreen-cmd'} Aug 16 19:23:14 ], Aug 16 19:23:16 placeNear: event.target, Aug 16 19:23:18 onChoose: function(arg) { Aug 16 19:23:20 Mojo.Controller.errorDialog("it Worked!"); Aug 16 19:23:21 * oil facepalm Aug 16 19:23:22 } Aug 16 19:23:24 }); Aug 16 19:23:26 }; Aug 16 19:23:41 hckyplayer024, yes remix made some very nice images for a keyboard theme that I will definitely implement in the future. I want to get some things working first like orange key, search fields, auto-correct Aug 16 19:23:53 no toggleCmd? Aug 16 19:24:04 i dont need any of them toggled Aug 16 19:24:11 it doesn;t work? Aug 16 19:24:16 would make sense for what they are doing Aug 16 19:24:21 egaudet, thanks so much for all your help, you are doing an awesome job and I really appreciate your help Aug 16 19:24:21 this.controller.pop Aug 16 19:24:25 ? Aug 16 19:24:28 wounld't* Aug 16 19:24:31 if that doesn't work, i dont know Aug 16 19:24:46 np, let me know if you run accross any other bugs or enhancements you'd like to see in the future Aug 16 19:25:09 I also had one other question too, is there any way that you can patch the browser so you can enter URL's in landscape mode? Aug 16 19:25:15 OOOOOH wow Aug 16 19:25:26 this.controller made it work Aug 16 19:25:34 magic! Aug 16 19:25:35 facepalm Aug 16 19:26:51 hckyplayer024, I had a brief look at that and saw where they were hiding the URL. I will eventually make a patch for that, but it will not be in the kb patch, it will be its own browser patch Aug 16 19:27:41 It actually didnt' look like a big task, so we'll see if anyone is up for that task Aug 16 19:28:24 egaudet, yeah i figured it wouldnt be too hard to unhide it. Your doing an awesome job, im trying to learn how to do all this stuff and i was able to unhide dev mode icon so i figure its something similar. Maybe ill be able to do it myself Aug 16 19:29:13 Take a look at the browser app, look for the orientationChange handler, I believe it is a simple "hide" going on Aug 16 19:29:27 so at a minimum you might be able to get rid of the hide and have the URL bar stay Aug 16 19:30:10 how do you place text in the clipboard? Aug 16 19:30:27 execCommand('copy'); ? Aug 16 19:30:50 yes. it is Aug 16 19:31:03 i'll go digging around later today. Get back to you if i'm able to find a way to do it. I cant wait to see how the keyboard grows into a better and better patch. keep up the good work egaudet! Aug 16 19:31:26 destinal, PuffTheMagic: just fixed orientationChanged() Aug 16 19:52:20 howdy Aug 16 19:57:11 hey! Aug 16 20:02:05 Zuchmir2: is there a sensitivity for orientation changes Aug 16 20:02:11 in genearal Aug 16 20:02:20 cause it seems like it never rotates when i want it to Aug 16 20:02:35 but if i tip the phone ever so slightly it will rotate Aug 16 20:02:45 you have to be vertical Aug 16 20:02:50 like, edge down Aug 16 20:06:16 PuffTheMagic: dunno, the OS handles rotation Aug 16 20:06:43 PuffTheMagic: i guess u got your device working again Aug 16 20:07:06 does anyone have the original novacom from the developer.palm.com ? Aug 16 20:07:25 i had to do a fresh install of lenny and now their is no novaterm Aug 16 20:09:37 PuffTheMagic, accelservice Aug 16 20:11:24 I know when you increase the accelerometer's poll frequency, the orientation changes happen more fluidly Aug 16 20:14:13 anyone know how to make tar include all directories for all files included? ipkg seems to do that normally and my hand-crafted ipk's are missing it Aug 16 20:15:21 destinal: please explain Aug 16 20:15:49 you'd have to tar tvzf data.tar.gz from a standard ipk to see it Aug 16 20:17:29 this is pandora's for instance Aug 16 20:17:30 http://webos.pastebin.com/m17a391f1 Aug 16 20:17:59 note how every directory in any file's path has an entry added for it? Aug 16 20:18:35 this will cause extraction of the tar to create directories as opposed to just failing when it tries to create a file in a directory that doesn't exist Aug 16 20:19:08 I want to know how to do that easily with just a list of files to add to the tar, have all directories included as well Aug 16 20:19:36 hmm, i never had that prob..., lemme see Aug 16 20:20:14 well you probably don't try tar cvzf data.tar.gz /a/b/c/d/file.js e/f/g/h/file.css Aug 16 20:20:25 egaudet: my issue is more that i want to change the threshold of when an orientation change occurs Aug 16 20:20:28 and want them created on extraction even though you didn't tar up the entire dir Aug 16 20:22:06 just did: mkdir 1/2;touch 1/2/3; tar -zcf a.tgz 1/2/3;mkdir a;cd a;tar -zxf ../a.tgz and had no probs Aug 16 20:22:06 ahhh Aug 16 20:22:14 running tar normally will create all the paths, but dpkg / ipkg don't Aug 16 20:22:29 oh, i see what u mean Aug 16 20:23:16 PuffTheMagic, raise the poll frequency and see if it's really the threshold you want to change rather than the "lag" of the infrequent poll Aug 16 20:24:43 But as for the threshold I haven't come accross it yet, but I'll let you know if I do Aug 16 20:25:56 destinal: don't see such an option :-( Aug 16 20:26:35 does anyone know when they changed the packaging for novacom? Aug 16 20:26:54 im playing hell getting a terminal up Aug 16 20:27:55 Zuchmir2: it looks like the best thing may just be to use tar piped to tar (or cpio) to create a new directory tree Aug 16 20:28:02 and then tar it up recursively Aug 16 20:28:24 destinal: sounds good Aug 16 20:28:41 the main weird thing is i'm making an ipkg from stuff in-place on the system Aug 16 20:28:45 basically its a repackaging script Aug 16 20:29:18 that takes a package ipkg knows about and makes an ipk for it equivalent to the one used to install it in the first palce Aug 16 20:29:22 s/palc/plac/ Aug 16 20:29:22 destinal meant: that takes a package ipkg knows about and makes an ipk for it equivalent to the one used to install it in the first place Aug 16 20:30:19 good for backing up stock stuff into ipks useful for easy restoration, for instance Aug 16 20:30:29 havent played w/ipk much Aug 16 20:31:00 Zuchmir2: it seems to be based on (and nearly identical to) dpkg Aug 16 20:31:07 the format anyway is Aug 16 20:31:30 ok Aug 16 20:32:29 btw if you are not planing on making any mods to Terminal today, i would suggest a new release, as a number of issues have been resolved w/lastest update Aug 16 20:33:23 ... i'm guessing you haven't played with kbd-buttons on bottom Aug 16 20:35:14 how usefull would implementing the blinking attribute? Aug 16 20:37:14 ... and/or bold Aug 16 20:37:34 eh, not earthshaking, but useful Aug 16 20:38:04 sorry that I Aug 16 20:38:18 sorry that I'm working on so many random things I haven't found enough time for terminal lately Aug 16 20:38:31 i'm thinking of setting an alarm() too do the blinking Aug 16 20:38:37 ok Aug 16 20:38:45 I think bold has more value Aug 16 20:38:55 but would require font stuff Aug 16 20:39:11 i would fake bold Aug 16 20:39:32 ... drawing 2 pixels hosrizontaly instead of 1 Aug 16 20:39:50 ie instead of "..XX..." "..XXX.." Aug 16 20:40:02 even color could be used to fake it I suppose Aug 16 20:40:12 use bold as intensity in a pinch Aug 16 20:40:31 there is intensity already Aug 16 20:40:42 yeah, that's true Aug 16 20:48:50 many people turn off bold fonts in their terminal emulators anyway Aug 16 20:50:54 I think symbol entry is a lot more requested right now. Aug 16 20:51:13 though admittedly non-trivial Aug 16 20:56:34 i know, but it's a major MOJO task... not an area i feel comfortable with Aug 16 20:56:56 how do you ad text to the clipboard? Aug 16 20:59:44 how do you ad text to the clipboard? Aug 16 21:01:58 livewire1337: from what? Aug 16 21:02:21 from a div Aug 16 21:02:42 i have $("chatTo").innerHTML Aug 16 21:02:52 and i want ot add that to the clipboard Aug 16 21:06:16 livewire1337: http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Controller.StageController.html Aug 16 21:06:36 Mojo.Controller.StageController.setClipboard(escapeHTML:, escapeHTML) Aug 16 21:06:45 awesome! tanks! Aug 16 21:06:58 no problem Aug 16 21:18:44 ok, just added bold Aug 16 21:29:59 Zuchmir2: cool Aug 16 21:39:20 ... just added <> (Shift+,.) Aug 16 21:51:46 lots of tech blogs have "re-authored" the virtual keyboard story for their sites overnight :-) Aug 16 21:52:46 thats usually how it goes Aug 16 21:55:24 howdy guyssss. Aug 16 21:59:32 except all the bloggers think there was this keyboard "that was cleverly hidden away in the depths of webOS. " Aug 16 22:02:53 anyone had a chance to play with the leds Aug 16 22:02:54 ? Aug 16 22:03:02 egaudet: yeah, they want the reader to be outraged that "Palm was keeping things from them" Aug 16 22:03:23 bsdbandit: we have a ledservice in the feeds - just need an app to go with it. Aug 16 22:04:01 yea im reading the wiki with controlling leds from the shell Aug 16 22:04:03 its cool Aug 16 22:04:32 im having an issue my connection to the device stops when the phone sleeps how do i stop this Aug 16 22:13:41 Zuchmir2: new version of Terminal is in the feeds. Aug 16 22:14:35 Anyone wanting to test it out, should be able to use WebOS Quick Install 2.0 to install it with no Linux access required. Just install the termplugin from the armv7 repository first, then install the terminal app second. Don't install them both at the same time. Aug 16 22:19:30 guys is $400 a good price for a Pre, only slightly used but with all original accessories, clean ESN, and 3 extra Palm brand OEM batteries? Aug 16 22:20:20 why not buy one from sprint? Aug 16 22:20:21 i paid $500 to sprint for mine new Aug 16 22:20:56 cause i couldnt wait till december to get my palm at 299 lol Aug 16 22:21:01 because this one has no contract requirement and 3 extra batteries Aug 16 22:21:07 lol Aug 16 22:21:09 rwhitby: if an ipkg update/upgrade works, I'll check that out now Aug 16 22:21:15 sounds like an ok deal Aug 16 22:21:15 i paid $99 for mine Aug 16 22:21:18 assuming its not broken Aug 16 22:21:27 that sucks Aug 16 22:21:43 * czarphanguye paid 300 w/ 100 rebate. got it the first hour of release ;-P Aug 16 22:21:49 czarphanguye: ipkg upgrade should work, but you will need to restart LunaSysMgr - I need to put that in the postinst for the termplugin. Aug 16 22:21:51 ive put notations on like 5 peoples accounts saying they were elgible for upgrades Aug 16 22:22:04 i waited til the super deals came out Aug 16 22:22:15 ^^smart man Aug 16 22:22:15 it has a minor scratch on the screen protector but it doesnt affect the operation of the phone at all Aug 16 22:22:58 gordian are you not elgible for an upgrade or you just don't want to extend your contract Aug 16 22:23:16 if it's the elgibility i can help you out on that Aug 16 22:23:42 it's my Pre that i'm selling Aug 16 22:23:49 oh :P Aug 16 22:23:52 ;-) Aug 16 22:24:16 i can't deal with Sprint customer svc and i miss my rollover minutes Aug 16 22:24:41 i posted craiglist and the precentral forum but no interest so far Aug 16 22:25:04 i hate hearing that Aug 16 22:25:26 yeah it was a tough decision Aug 16 22:25:28 i love the phone Aug 16 22:25:33 gordian: 400 seems like a good deal, I'd prob pay that if I was afraid of the commitment but wanted a pre. Esp w/ the extra batteries. Aug 16 22:25:37 but i just assume wait for a gsm or vzw Aug 16 22:25:46 i dont think i could go back to another phone after having my pre... Aug 16 22:26:03 Decimation: ditto Aug 16 22:26:08 i know I can't deal with any other provider in these parts Aug 16 22:26:08 I love the Pre Aug 16 22:26:14 i do too Aug 16 22:26:16 all the others suck the big one. Aug 16 22:26:17 i know some of you guys will hate to here this Aug 16 22:26:23 but there are some things about my 650 that i can't live without Aug 16 22:26:25 vzw is horrible here. Aug 16 22:26:27 but the only other phone i'd consider would be the 3gs Aug 16 22:26:54 decimation: that's respectable only thing that remotely can rival the pre right now Aug 16 22:27:13 gordian: I have two 650's - I started this webos-internals thing specifically so that the Pre would be good enough to replace the 650 by the time the GSM version gets to .au ... Aug 16 22:27:23 intro: yeah, and since i am not an idot... i wouldn't totally turn into a dbag after getting it :P Aug 16 22:27:37 rwhitby: i would love to be a part of that Aug 16 22:27:52 i can still help with the emulator Aug 16 22:27:56 i just don't enjoy apple products cause im a big git like that Aug 16 22:28:00 play on words ;] Aug 16 22:28:00 gordian: by being in this channel you *are* part of that :-) Aug 16 22:28:04 i just simply can not deal with sprint Aug 16 22:28:15 well i've done several wiki entries Aug 16 22:28:19 gordian: maybe i can help with that? Aug 16 22:28:24 (thanks to help from you) Aug 16 22:28:45 intro: i doubt it but you're welcome to try Aug 16 22:28:59 i've already terminated my service though and i'm ported back to att Aug 16 22:29:09 back on my good ole 650 Aug 16 22:29:21 this is going to sound unprofessional but only reason i work for sprint is to hook up techies like me and ofcourse free service Aug 16 22:29:45 makes no difference to me why you work there Aug 16 22:29:59 do what you gotta do Aug 16 22:30:12 i've actually had a line of people waiting for me after close Aug 16 22:30:29 to put the homebrew apps on their phones lol Aug 16 22:30:50 i haven't had problems with that at all Aug 16 22:31:12 intro: just in case it matters to you, be aware that this channel is publicly logged :-) Aug 16 22:31:30 whitby: I'm aware of that ;) Aug 16 22:31:37 sweet Aug 16 22:31:48 sprint won't find me (i hope) Aug 16 22:32:09 rwhitby: thanks Aug 16 22:32:31 intro: the other reason to bring it up is so you don't inadvertently say something that will cause Sprint to come after this channel with lawyers for some reason ... Aug 16 22:34:14 gotcha Aug 16 22:35:15 the virtual kb mockup remix2000 did looks amazing Aug 16 22:53:54 gordian: what WAS your problem with sprint customer service Aug 16 22:54:03 I ask this because I have NEVER had a bad experiance. Aug 16 22:54:10 i'm with Rick Aug 16 22:54:12 and We have been sprint customers for 10 years. Aug 16 22:54:12 they've been awesome Aug 16 22:54:37 and as far as phone service, sprint's coverage AROUND HERE is massively better than anyone else. Aug 16 22:54:39 period Aug 16 22:54:50 rwhitby: new terminal isn't working out for me. no prompt, just a black screen. would you know how to downgrade back to 1.7 off the top of your head? Aug 16 22:55:24 delete the directory and re-install Aug 16 22:55:56 or perhaps gordian left. :-( Aug 16 22:56:02 'cause I really wanted to know. Aug 16 22:56:24 intro - I have to say, I've never EVER understood the stuff about sprint customer service sucking. Aug 16 22:56:30 Rick-home: where's it stored at? could I just ipkg purge? Aug 16 22:56:33 it has never ever done so for me. Aug 16 22:56:56 czarphanguye: That is better asked of rwhitby I have no idea but it SOUNDS scarey Aug 16 22:57:18 Thanks Rick some people just call into bad CS i guess Aug 16 22:57:20 it's in /var/user/palm/applications Aug 16 22:57:39 intro -- I will freely admit we've been business premier customers that whole time Aug 16 22:57:48 and I have no idea what CONSUMER cs is like Aug 16 22:57:51 normally when i help people out or activate their phone ill give them my employee line so if they run into a problem they can call me Aug 16 22:58:23 but I have a friend who is a first line supervisor for consumer CS in lenexa and _he_ insists that they do a good job and he beats his people up to do so. Aug 16 22:58:52 it's just like first impressions Aug 16 22:58:57 I know. Aug 16 22:59:02 if you're tagged with bad support that's all that will be talked about Aug 16 22:59:11 But I always wonder what specific complaints cause people like gordian to say that. Aug 16 22:59:33 no idea Aug 16 22:59:35 and as to the rollover minutes.... :-/ I've never understood the appeal. Aug 16 22:59:53 but then, I seldom come close to hitting my limits anyway. Aug 16 22:59:54 it's cool if you talk a lot to tons of people Aug 16 23:00:13 but if you have pick 3 on your account you shouldnt go over Aug 16 23:00:47 intro -- most of our phones are on a no-longer-offered plan with 6K minutes in a common pool. Only my pre is outside that. Aug 16 23:00:56 my whole immediate family has free service because my dad had worked with sprint for so long Aug 16 23:01:25 and 450 minutes is MORE than enough for me. Aug 16 23:01:50 ahhhh Aug 16 23:02:02 we have free telephone servic3e. My wife was 30 years at at&t. Aug 16 23:02:18 saddly, not free cell, but I wuldn't want at&t cell around HERE anway. service is poor. Aug 16 23:02:53 i would love for my fiance to work at att Aug 16 23:02:55 HERE being anywhere att provides cell service? Aug 16 23:03:14 learn all the terms :) Aug 16 23:04:05 the unlimited everything plan for the pre is a bit much for me Aug 16 23:04:19 considering in the last year and a half i have used less than a half hour of minutes =x Aug 16 23:06:08 anyone know why the Turn off after X patch will not work on a certain phone, but works on the other ones? I have 2 that it worked on and 1 that it doesn't. Aug 16 23:06:52 no idea, havent test that patch Aug 16 23:07:32 To make it even funnier they are all running the same WebOS Aug 16 23:07:56 ideally it should work with the phone if it's stock Aug 16 23:08:13 yeap, it should Aug 16 23:10:24 acy so get the 450 minute plan instead Aug 16 23:10:32 acydlord: Aug 16 23:10:53 they said i couldnt use that plan with the pre Aug 16 23:11:19 it doesnt include the data Aug 16 23:12:24 whoa Aug 16 23:12:25 acydlord: I don't know who you were talking to but there are 3 plans for the pre Aug 16 23:12:36 so the v8 engine is only about 544k of source Aug 16 23:13:11 http://www.nextel.com/en/stores/popups/palmpre_plan_details_popup.shtml Aug 16 23:13:17 Rick-home: any idea about the patch? Aug 16 23:13:22 unlimited 900 and 450 Aug 16 23:13:30 print that pge out and take it to htem. Aug 16 23:13:43 Ikyo: I've never looked at that patch Aug 16 23:14:19 jauderho: yes Aug 16 23:14:30 I wonder why v8 has calls to SQL Aug 16 23:14:41 I like the included headers though Aug 16 23:14:49 #include Aug 16 23:14:49 #include Aug 16 23:15:08 well thats lame Aug 16 23:15:31 the only reason i was paying 99 before was because i had 450 plan and tethering on my centro Aug 16 23:16:18 450 + tethering for 99? Aug 16 23:16:21 when was this Aug 16 23:16:57 december of 07 Aug 16 23:17:10 well thats when i got the account set up origionally Aug 16 23:17:20 he had a 450 talk plan plus a $69 unlimited data plan -- back before the really unlimited data plans were discontinued. Aug 16 23:17:32 acydlord: yep Aug 16 23:17:56 the power packs were awesome for saving money Aug 16 23:18:27 they will eventually be phasing out pretty much all plans for normal consumer except for the SE if you can tell Aug 16 23:20:26 i still need to throw the alltel prl onto my old centro so i can ship it out Aug 16 23:21:31 intro: I have a number of friends who have set up a phone consortium sotht they could do one of the big business plans for 10 phones, and split the expense. :-) Aug 16 23:22:00 rwhitby do you know if the pre browser uses the skia or cairo library? Aug 16 23:22:22 that's honestly a good way to go Aug 16 23:22:28 as long as everyone is reliable Aug 16 23:22:34 jauderho: did you look at palm's public domain repository? Aug 16 23:22:44 intro if you have a corp that yu can run it through..... Aug 16 23:23:02 I have but it's not immediately obvious which is why I thought I would ask Aug 16 23:23:05 i need to set up a business plan again so i can write off my phonebill Aug 16 23:23:10 I'm pawing through webcore right now. Aug 16 23:23:25 trying to establish which branch of v8 Palm used Aug 16 23:23:33 but it looks like they renamed everything Aug 16 23:23:39 so hard to pin down Aug 16 23:24:08 tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.zip is the windows novaterm, correct? Aug 16 23:24:44 believe so intro Aug 16 23:25:14 thanks acylord Aug 16 23:28:39 anyone use secure lock on their Pre? Aug 16 23:30:13 hmm it looks like a bunch of stuff was moved around from webkit 3-2 to webkit 4. Aug 16 23:31:22 gonna be painful for palm to move to 4... Aug 16 23:32:53 which is unfortunate Aug 16 23:33:03 because I really want the new improved webkit transforms Aug 16 23:34:40 Someone have a pre infront of them want to check something for me? Aug 16 23:35:03 It is under the Screen & Lock. If you set a pin, do you have the options to turn secure unlock off? Aug 16 23:38:20 is the secure unlock a patch? Aug 16 23:39:10 oh lmao Aug 16 23:39:10 wasnt thinking Aug 16 23:39:10 someone slap me with a freaking shark please Aug 16 23:39:41 * acydlord slaps intro with a mako Aug 16 23:39:53 on the other hand, google really seems to try to be doing TheRightThing and contributing the bridge to v8 back to Webkit so that webkit will build easily with v8 Aug 16 23:39:57 lol Aug 16 23:39:59 as an alternate JS engine Aug 16 23:40:25 rick-home. I would think the web workers in webkit 4 could be interesting too Aug 16 23:40:42 man webkit svn is HUGE. still checking out 10 mins later. Aug 16 23:40:52 lkyo: i have the secure unlock set to off Aug 16 23:42:39 what I do not understand is how palm broke webkit 3-2 functionality while building their browser Aug 16 23:42:48 If you enable it, can you disable it? Aug 16 23:43:11 according to steve souder's ua profiler, safari 3.2 scores a 7/11 http://stevesouders.com/ua/ Aug 16 23:43:37 now check out the results for the pre Aug 16 23:43:38 http://stevesouders.com/ua/report.php?v=det&pb=Palm+Pre Aug 16 23:44:12 lkyo: you cant have the simple pin, so if it's disabled their's nothing Aug 16 23:44:52 how do I turn it off if they are using a simple pin? Aug 16 23:45:32 screen/lock prefs turn off secure lock enter in the simple pin Aug 16 23:45:46 so you have a turn off option? Aug 16 23:46:45 yes Aug 16 23:47:43 so you set a simple pin and then were able to set it to off? Aug 16 23:48:01 yes Aug 16 23:48:09 you can't? Aug 16 23:48:44 on my friends phone he only has the option to change the pin and nothing else Aug 16 23:49:24 you should be able to set it to off... Aug 16 23:55:35 * Rick-home away - family stuff bbl Aug 16 23:57:08 Intro: I just did a reload from the webdoctor and it still doesn't show up. Did you actual set a simple pin? Aug 16 23:57:22 yes Aug 16 23:57:47 you should have 3 options: Aug 16 23:57:54 off, simple pin, and password Aug 16 23:58:32 now set a simple pin and save it Aug 16 23:58:38 then see if you can turn it off Aug 16 23:58:57 i did Aug 17 00:00:12 all he has now is change pin do you see that option? Aug 17 00:00:19 http://imgur.com/SfwDd.jpg Aug 17 00:00:19 yes Aug 17 00:00:34 angry baby Aug 17 00:00:38 Rick-home: sales rep said activation would be waived Aug 17 00:00:41 but it wasn't Aug 17 00:00:42 wearing a Vim shirt Aug 17 00:00:44 so i went back to the store Aug 17 00:00:48 then he said he fixed it Aug 17 00:00:50 but he didnt Aug 17 00:01:00 so i kept getting $36 past due notices Aug 17 00:01:04 and phone calls Aug 17 00:01:18 and every time i tried to explain to billing, they put me in touch with customer svc Aug 17 00:01:18 gordian: i wish i would have known i would have done it Aug 17 00:01:21 Intro: I don't see the off anywhere around there.....not sure what is up with his phone Aug 17 00:01:28 but customer svc kept sending me back to billing Aug 17 00:01:35 and seriously Aug 17 00:01:39 i'm not racist Aug 17 00:01:45 outsourcing lol Aug 17 00:01:50 but the african americans need to do something about their names Aug 17 00:01:53 no that's the thing Aug 17 00:01:57 they were all in AMERICA! Aug 17 00:02:02 lmao Aug 17 00:02:11 but even a guy in India named "Singh" will tell you his name is Steve Aug 17 00:02:31 but a damn woman named J'nuvia can't make up a more common name? Aug 17 00:02:46 "I'm not racist, but $RACIST_STEREOTYPE" Aug 17 00:02:51 lol Aug 17 00:03:02 every single person i spoke was D'shandrelle or Larincio Aug 17 00:03:08 i had someone try to tell me those odd "hood" names are traditional african names Aug 17 00:03:09 lmao Aug 17 00:03:12 Zuchmir2: hey Aug 17 00:03:15 names i couldnt write down even if i tried Aug 17 00:03:23 i dont give a shit what they are Aug 17 00:03:30 and i was like the fsck they are, which africa are we talking about? Aug 17 00:03:54 traditional african names would be either french, or a series of clicks and whistles Aug 17 00:03:57 they make Indians use common names, so wtf Aug 17 00:04:34 i'd rather people use their real names Aug 17 00:04:43 destinal: hey, are you there? Aug 17 00:04:45 they also had a tendency to hang up on me more than all of my ex girlfriends combined Aug 17 00:05:04 doesnt set a good expectation when you know customer service is lying to you right from go Aug 17 00:05:18 but they lied to me anyway! to my face! Aug 17 00:05:25 dude said he'd waive activation TWICE! Aug 17 00:05:30 then looked into my eyes and said it was done Aug 17 00:05:34 apparently you werent carrying a large enough knife Aug 17 00:05:51 maybe if i'd come in my service uniform he would've bucked up Aug 17 00:05:57 has anyone gotten bookmarklets to work with the web browser? I get an error, "Cannot find an application which can open this file." Aug 17 00:05:58 go back to that store, and leave a steaming pile of poo in the blackberry section Aug 17 00:06:12 i would but i live 2000 miles away from that store now Aug 17 00:07:03 omg this is killing me Aug 17 00:07:19 does anyone have the link saved to the theme list that someone created? i can't find it Aug 17 00:09:12 the one in the wallpapers section of precentral? Aug 17 00:10:15 im going to look and see if that's the one Aug 17 00:10:29 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-wallpapers/197037-list-themes-etc.html if you're lazy Aug 17 00:10:33 and if it is im going to swallow my dip for being such a retard Aug 17 00:10:45 ...that's the one Aug 17 00:10:57 i passed it so many times Aug 17 00:10:59 wtf Aug 17 00:11:08 there is this too http://bedark.com/ Aug 17 00:12:50 acylord: thank you for the site Aug 17 00:13:56 welcome Aug 17 00:14:01 anywho im off to play some ps3 Aug 17 00:15:11 mrvc: pong Aug 17 00:15:22 Zuchmir2: Hey Zuchmir2 Aug 17 00:15:29 hi Aug 17 00:15:34 how's it going? Aug 17 00:15:40 good Aug 17 00:15:43 anyone know what DB the securelock is in? I don't want to have to reset his phone back to factory Aug 17 00:15:50 did u see the latest mods? Aug 17 00:16:00 Zuchmir2: I pulled the latest changes Aug 17 00:16:04 havent seen u around in a while Aug 17 00:16:13 Zuchmir2: I looked at the log and saw you had done a lot of work Aug 17 00:16:31 Zuchmir2: I just get a black screen when I run terminal though Aug 17 00:16:44 Zuchmir2: yeah, I've been busy Aug 17 00:16:46 using new MOJO? Aug 17 00:17:18 Zuchmir2: yeah Aug 17 00:17:30 Zuchmir2: I re-installed the package Aug 17 00:17:43 u took from head, or pkg? Aug 17 00:18:25 try restart luna, see if that helps Aug 17 00:18:52 Zuchmir2: no, no luck Aug 17 00:18:58 hmm... Aug 17 00:19:08 u using device or emu? Aug 17 00:19:13 emu Aug 17 00:19:30 oh, didn't test on emu, my setup on emu is always crashing Aug 17 00:21:12 interesting post on v8 performance on ARM http://www.mail-archive.com/v8-users@googlegroups.com/msg01190.html Aug 17 00:22:27 ok, i see the issue... Aug 17 00:23:11 go into prefs, then exit it will clean it Aug 17 00:23:21 will try to fix this Aug 17 00:24:33 Zuchmir2: if I go into prefs, it becomes unresponsive Aug 17 00:25:39 Zuchmir2: ok, I quit and tried again and now it works Aug 17 00:28:43 Zuchmir2: If I go to preferences and come back out Aug 17 00:29:19 ok, just pushed the fix Aug 17 00:29:55 there's some bug in the going out of prefs, that is sporadic, most of the times now it works, dont know why Aug 17 00:30:03 hey guys Aug 17 00:30:22 hi puff Aug 17 00:30:33 hi PuffTheMagic Aug 17 00:31:23 whats the easiest way to set the focus to a text field widget? Aug 17 00:32:03 livewire1337 #webos Aug 17 00:32:41 nobody is ever active in that channel D': Aug 17 00:33:09 hows term coming Aug 17 00:34:12 PuffTheMagic: I've been out of it for a while Aug 17 00:34:27 PuffTheMagic: Zuchmir2 has been doing a good bit of work on it Aug 17 00:34:38 PuffTheMagic: was hoping one of you would work on the kbd stuff display and/or key-state, i'm not very good in mojo Aug 17 00:35:07 PuffTheMagic: there seem to be some issues currently Aug 17 00:35:24 PuffTheMagic: when I first run it, I just get a black screen Aug 17 00:35:35 mrvc: just fixed that Aug 17 00:35:38 PuffTheMagic: going to preferences and coming back out fixes it Aug 17 00:35:44 Zuchmir2: ok, I'll try it Aug 17 00:36:19 rm /var/palm/data/file_.var.usr.palm.applications.org.webosinternals.terminal_*/* before to make sure it's fresh Aug 17 00:36:36 ... as that's where it stores the prefs Aug 17 00:36:38 Zuchmir2: yep, that is working Aug 17 00:36:58 the issue was i had to disable drawing before reading prefs Aug 17 00:37:12 ... and there was 1 place that i forgot to re-enable Aug 17 00:37:23 Zuchmir2: got it Aug 17 00:37:24 Zuchmir2: well i am spread thing, website stuff, the ipkgservice, kernel hacking... etc. Aug 17 00:37:26 (otherwise it gave a flicker) Aug 17 00:37:43 Zuchmir2: looks like the header/footer are gone Aug 17 00:38:03 Zuchmir2: the rounded corners are cutting off text Aug 17 00:38:07 yeah, they weren't doing anything - there was nothing there Aug 17 00:38:51 we had ideas of using that area for kbd-state / kbd-keys Aug 17 00:39:03 but nothing happened w/that Aug 17 00:39:44 Zuchmir2: yeah, but it is handy to have header/footer in the meantime to avoid the rounded corners Aug 17 00:40:11 it can be put back in, but the numbers have to be adjusted... Aug 17 00:40:35 i was having trouble figuring out which numbers go where, so just pulled it out for now Aug 17 00:41:39 Zuchmir2: something is strange with the preferences, about half the time it won't go back once I go to the preferences stage Aug 17 00:41:46 Zuchmir2: everything becomes unresponsive Aug 17 00:41:53 Zuchmir2: the menu won't pull down Aug 17 00:42:00 brb Aug 17 00:42:04 Zuchmir2: the selectors won't change Aug 17 00:42:17 I can't go back, etc. Aug 17 00:42:50 yeah, that was something introduced when we added multi card Aug 17 00:43:09 don't know what the issue is, i'm getting it sporadic Aug 17 00:43:30 i found it alot less problematic with the latest HEAD Aug 17 00:44:07 if you compile w/enabling DEBUG_OUTPUT (in common.h) see if u can trace the problem Aug 17 00:45:03 ok, trying to figure out how to reproduce it consistently Aug 17 00:47:51 Zuchmir2: no, I can't get it to happen now Aug 17 00:48:17 same here, that's why i can't debug it Aug 17 00:49:12 mrvc: Zuchmir2: i got rid of the headers while i was trying to get the appmenu working Aug 17 00:49:21 i am trying to get oil involved in terminal Aug 17 00:49:28 since he has some sick mojo skills Aug 17 00:49:39 and could make terminal look nice in a heartbeat probably Aug 17 00:49:59 sounds good to me Aug 17 00:50:18 he was working on packaging stuff, no? Aug 17 00:53:59 Zuchmir2: ok, I can reproduce it consistently Aug 17 00:54:20 Zuchmir2: start with the font 8x8 Aug 17 00:54:28 Zuchmir2: Go to preferences and switch it to 6x10 Aug 17 00:54:35 Zuchmir2: go back to the terminal Aug 17 00:54:47 Zuchmir2: scroll up about half a screen Aug 17 00:54:56 Zuchmir2: go back to preferences and switch to 8x8 Aug 17 00:55:00 Zuchmir2: hang Aug 17 00:57:23 ok, i see it now..., lemme look into it Aug 17 00:58:23 at that stage it freezes the plugin Aug 17 01:04:39 now i can't reproduce it :( Aug 17 01:05:41 Zuchmir2: I left out one thing, it doesn't actually freeze until I try to go back after switching the font to 8x8 Aug 17 01:06:38 i can keep switching (many times) between those fonts w/o crashing Aug 17 01:08:37 and you are scrolling the screen inbetween? Aug 17 01:08:51 scrolling the terminal Aug 17 01:09:30 whoops, forgot that... Aug 17 01:10:13 oil, rwhitby: so the ipkgservice is auto starting with preware now :) Aug 17 01:14:06 Decimation: excellent. Aug 17 01:14:38 oil: one suggestion before you get much farther into this, setup support for app categorization sorted by the "section" parameter so when apps are categorized, it is implemented in preware. Aug 17 01:15:01 Decimation: it's already there done in that way Aug 17 01:15:15 ahh, okay. Aug 17 01:15:23 that's where libs, misc and web come from now Aug 17 01:15:42 rwhitby: ah, yes, didnt even realize... nice :) Aug 17 01:16:01 we're going to override that in the feed metadata file to show the category information from the originating submission site Aug 17 01:16:16 (e.g. the 10 categories that Palm has) Aug 17 01:16:26 so if i were to change the "section" of an app on the feed.. it would load that section on the preware app as of now? Aug 17 01:16:46 yes Aug 17 01:17:00 rwhitby: beautiful, this is coming together very nicely. Aug 17 01:17:27 it should automatically flow through from the control file that an author puts in their ipkg file to the feed Packages file and to the preware installer app Aug 17 01:18:02 so an author can actually create a whole new category at the moment just by editing the Section: field in their ipkg control file :-) Aug 17 01:18:23 i suppose custom repository support will be added also? Aug 17 01:18:51 Decimation: it's amazing what can be done when you have a group of smart people designing something up front, rather than just rushing into trying to get something out first :-) Aug 17 01:19:28 rwhitby: lol, this will definitely be the most used on-device installer when finished. Aug 17 01:21:59 rwhitby: im trying to learn about services and such, and it seems that to make an app that will record video, all you need is the prerelease service.. right? Aug 17 01:22:28 Decimation: what's the prerelease service? Aug 17 01:22:38 and where is the source code for it/ Aug 17 01:23:00 (I don't trust any service or plugin that I can't read the source code for ....) Aug 17 01:23:07 rwhitby: something made by pregame Aug 17 01:23:13 One other thing I might add is that you can use the Prelease service to execute commands and run scripts for your own applications. Just use the runCmd method. Aug 17 01:23:15 IE: palm://com.pregame.prelease/runCmd '{"cmd":"echo hello"}' Aug 17 01:23:25 straight from his post here: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/187407-my-flashlight-7-1-a.html Aug 17 01:23:43 rwhitby: its probably closed source Aug 17 01:23:44 xD Aug 17 01:23:55 whoa - what stops an app running "/bin/mail PalmDatabase.db hacker@spam-bots-r-us.com" ? Aug 17 01:24:31 rwhitby: nothing, which is a problem. Aug 17 01:24:33 Decimation: I would be very wary of such a service. Looks like a huge security hole to me. Aug 17 01:25:24 rwhitby: although it can be used for malicious apps, its very helpful if not to developers. Aug 17 01:25:53 developer can (and have already) done specific services that can not be subverted to evil purposes Aug 17 01:26:12 see the four services from webos-internals for examples. Aug 17 01:26:34 yeah, but then you need a different service for each command.. Aug 17 01:26:45 or something along those lines, idk, im a noob :P Aug 17 01:27:24 Decimation: would you put a website up which allows any shell command to be run as root on your machine simply by typing it into a public web page? Aug 17 01:27:39 rwhitby: of course not. Aug 17 01:28:04 im saying, yes, a security problem, but never the less... helpful. Aug 17 01:30:00 heh, as helpful as telling the world your root password ... Aug 17 01:30:23 rmh3093 * rdc9192bda4d8 submission-website/modules/modr8/ (9 files in 2 dirs) - Modr8 module 6.x-1.1 from 2009-Feb-04 Aug 17 01:30:26 rmh3093 * r248d2d33ab59 submission-website/modules/project/ (96 files in 19 dirs) - Project 6.x-1.x-dev from 2009-Aug-13 Aug 17 01:30:27 rmh3093 * re11f16e0beb1 submission-website/modules/project_issue/ (53 files in 11 dirs) - Project Issue Tracker 6.x-1.x-dev from 6.x-1.x-dev Aug 17 01:30:29 rmh3093 * rf9efd77c10a3 submission-website/modules/adminrole/ (LICENSE.txt README.txt adminrole.info adminrole.module) - Admin Role module 6.x-1.1 from 2009-Jan-19 Aug 17 01:30:30 rmh3093 * r26eab2c9d1ae submission-website/modules/fivestar/ (80 files in 14 dirs) - Fivestar module 6.x-1.18 from 2009-Jul-07 Aug 17 01:30:33 rmh3093 * r877b2a57a575 submission-website/modules/votingapi/ (19 files in 4 dirs) - Voting API module 6.x-2.x-dev from 2009-Jul-21 Aug 17 01:30:36 rmh3093 * r577e65c2d9d6 submission-website/modules/services/ (42 files in 12 dirs) - Services module 6.x-2.x-dev from 2009-Aug-09 Aug 17 01:30:39 rmh3093 * re9cf214b482e submission-website/modules/views/ (346 files in 28 dirs) - Views module 6.x-2.x-dev from 2009-Aug-12 Aug 17 01:30:42 rmh3093 * r5832bc00cbfb submission-website/modules/fivestar/ (80 files in 14 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-fivestar' Aug 17 01:30:45 rmh3093 * r7fadce1af1df submission-website/modules/comment_upload/ (7 files in 2 dirs) - Comment Upload module 6.x-1.x-dev from 2009-Jul-15 Aug 17 01:30:48 rmh3093 * r433f39cf76d8 submission-website/.gitignore - add .gitignore to prevent git from tracking some files Aug 17 01:30:53 rmh3093 * rd54dd9c2e0ad submission-website/modules/project/ (96 files in 19 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-project' Aug 17 01:30:58 rmh3093 * r7c5bbdd3958e submission-website/modules/adminrole/ (LICENSE.txt README.txt adminrole.info adminrole.module) - Merge branch 'module-adminrole' Aug 17 01:31:00 whoa Aug 17 01:31:01 rmh3093 * r367a49b64b6d submission-website/modules/project_issue/ (53 files in 11 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-project_issue' Aug 17 01:31:04 rmh3093 * r686260e5da9e submission-website/modules/comment_upload/ (7 files in 2 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-comment_upload' Aug 17 01:31:07 rmh3093 * rb34f6616e51b submission-website/modules/modr8/ (9 files in 2 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-modr8' Aug 17 01:31:10 rmh3093 * r82ea86f86d1d submission-website/modules/views/ (346 files in 28 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-views' Aug 17 01:31:15 rmh3093 * r4689aea33375 submission-website/modules/services/ (42 files in 12 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-services' Aug 17 01:31:19 WTG! Aug 17 01:31:22 rmh3093 * rae3d685b89c2 submission-website/modules/votingapi/ (19 files in 4 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-votingapi' Aug 17 01:31:25 rmh3093 * r98ca38e9c9df submission-website/modules/comment_upload/ (7 files in 2 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-comment_upload' Aug 17 01:31:28 rmh3093 * r3498b19d6665 submission-website/themes/acquia_marina/ (60 files in 3 dirs) - Acquia Marina Theme 6.x-1.9 from 2009-May-13 Aug 17 01:31:31 rmh3093 * r4d23d4e01d03 submission-website/ (files sites/default/files/.htaccess) - add the files dir Aug 17 01:31:34 rmh3093 * r87e7beaa967b submission-website/modules/modr8/ (9 files in 2 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-modr8' Aug 17 01:31:38 ouch, sorry folks Aug 17 01:31:39 rmh3093 * rfd9c73dc8193 submission-website/.gitignore - update .gitignore some more Aug 17 01:31:41 rmh3093 * rb6fe9ceedba8 submission-website/modules/adminrole/ (LICENSE.txt README.txt adminrole.info adminrole.module) - Merge branch 'module-adminrole' Aug 17 01:31:43 my fault. Aug 17 01:31:50 rmh3093 * r7b185f2df1ed submission-website/modules/fivestar/ (80 files in 14 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-fivestar' Aug 17 01:31:55 rmh3093 * r744dcc74eb49 submission-website/modules/project/ (96 files in 19 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-project' Aug 17 01:31:58 rmh3093 * r44a0e30c0db4 submission-website/themes/acquia_marina/ (60 files in 3 dirs) - Merge branch 'theme-acquia_marina' Aug 17 01:32:01 rmh3093 * r08f96b9e4afb submission-website/themes/acquia_marina/style.css - expand slogan area Aug 17 01:32:06 rmh3093 * re95cfb492c0a submission-website/themes/acquia_marina/style.css - Merge branch 'theme-acquia_marina-customized' Aug 17 01:32:09 rmh3093 * r027e82a02365 submission-website/modules/services/ (42 files in 12 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-services' Aug 17 01:32:12 rmh3093 * r6491427b1a97 submission-website/modules/pathauto/ (31 files in 3 dirs) - Pathauto module 6.x-1.x-dev from 2009-Aug-14 Aug 17 01:32:19 rmh3093 * r87d32d9a3ce8 submission-website/modules/project_issue/ (53 files in 11 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-project_issue' Aug 17 01:32:19 rwhitby: AHH MAKE HIM STOP Aug 17 01:32:22 rmh3093 * rb8d6401be14b submission-website/modules/views/ (346 files in 28 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-views' Aug 17 01:32:25 rmh3093 * r04909d29150d submission-website/modules/votingapi/ (19 files in 4 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-votingapi' Aug 17 01:32:30 rmh3093 * r6aecd04ea1a9 submission-website/modules/pathauto/ (31 files in 3 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-pathauto' Aug 17 01:32:33 rmh3093 * rb3b8c2841301 submission-website/modules/token/ (27 files in 2 dirs) - Token module 6.x-1.x-dev from 2009-Aug-13 Aug 17 01:32:36 rmh3093 * rba4409de4e52 submission-website/modules/token/ (27 files in 2 dirs) - Merge branch 'module-token' Aug 17 01:32:39 rmh3093 * rc9f7b8a7c822 submission-website/modules/taxonomy_block/ (6 files) - Taxonomy Block module http://drupal.org/node/548916 from 2009-Aug-14 Aug 17 01:32:42 unfortunately, I can't make it stop. Please just ignore for the moment. Aug 17 01:32:44 rmh3093 * r6161ddd06dd1 submission-website/modules/taxonomy_block/ (6 files) - Merge branch 'module-taxonomy_block' Aug 17 01:32:47 rmh3093 * r1ab53f86dfdd submission-website/modules/taxonomy_block/taxonomy_block.module - add some css to the block Aug 17 01:32:50 rmh3093 * rc040a06c5614 submission-website/modules/taxonomy_block/taxonomy_block.module - Merge branch 'module-taxonomy_block-customized' Aug 17 01:34:29 * rwhitby says 10000 mea culpa's Aug 17 01:36:38 PuffTheMagic: so you're right about #webos-internals-commits - I'll set that up now. Aug 17 01:36:54 lol Aug 17 01:37:30 ahh Aug 17 01:37:38 you need to fix the cia script Aug 17 01:37:53 is using the username that i log in with on the box Aug 17 01:37:59 instead of the fullname in the .gitconfig file Aug 17 01:38:17 yeah, the git cia script just uses the bit before the @ sign in the email address in the commit Aug 17 01:38:23 it's dumb and needs to be fixed Aug 17 01:38:32 its not dumb, its customizable Aug 17 01:38:48 I couldn't find an existing one which did better, and hadn't bothered hacking it myself yet. Aug 17 01:39:04 do you have a better script from somewhere that we should be using? Aug 17 01:42:53 mrvc: looks ike a bug in the OS, as in the above case, SessionAssistant.activate() does not get called! Aug 17 01:43:07 s/ike/like/ Aug 17 01:43:07 Zuchmir2 meant: mrvc: looks like a bug in the OS, as in the above case, SessionAssistant.activate() does not get called! Aug 17 01:43:53 i love my mommy! Aug 17 01:43:58 s/mommy/mom Aug 17 01:44:04 s/mommy/mom/ Aug 17 01:44:05 Decimation meant: s/mom/mom Aug 17 01:44:10 i hate this. Aug 17 01:44:14 i always forgot the last / Aug 17 01:44:55 your sed scripts must never work then ;-) Aug 17 01:50:44 s/mom/mum/ Aug 17 01:51:07 Zuchmir2: odd Aug 17 01:52:05 ... PrefsAssistant.deactivate() is also not being called Aug 17 01:54:33 Zuchmir2: I made the draw event handler a no-op and that prevented the problem Aug 17 01:55:29 egaudet: any updates to keyboard? Aug 17 01:58:32 i can see that: term: visibile size changed: 40x0 Aug 17 01:58:43 ... so that's a bug Aug 17 01:59:13 but normally NPP_SetWindow() is called AFTER activate Aug 17 02:00:24 gkatsev, not since the shift/sym update Aug 17 02:00:54 i dont think i got that one yet Aug 17 02:01:24 let me try it Aug 17 02:03:57 woot, in two hours ill have windows 7 ultimate RTM :) Aug 17 02:04:41 egaudet: did you see the keyboard pictures the guy posted in your thread Aug 17 02:04:47 like.. the htc touch keyboard or something Aug 17 02:05:25 Decimation: how so? Aug 17 02:05:38 gkatsev: what do you mean? Aug 17 02:05:52 Decimation: er, how are you getting win7 RTM in two hours? Aug 17 02:06:10 gkatsev: torrents are lovely :) Aug 17 02:06:15 Decimation: heh Aug 17 02:06:53 but its been nice watching windows 7 advanced Aug 17 02:07:05 mmhm Aug 17 02:07:05 ran the beta from day 1 until the RC came out Aug 17 02:07:23 i ran the prebeta from PDC for the last few months of 2008 Aug 17 02:08:22 Zuchmir2: it will still hang if no drawing is done, just locking the mutex checking for input, and unlocking Aug 17 02:08:55 Decimation, which one pictures? Remix's black mockup or the other guys windows picture? Aug 17 02:08:59 egaudet: is the "orange" button supposed to insert "orange" into the text field? Aug 17 02:09:13 gkatsev, no but it's fixed locally already Aug 17 02:09:22 ok Aug 17 02:24:31 mrvc: the issue is, one of the assert()'s are reached with a fault! Aug 17 02:24:58 i am working on a patch w/o mutex handling Aug 17 02:25:44 Zuchmir2: you want to remove the mutexes? Aug 17 02:25:48 do i have to make sure to call pthread_cond_signal(&myobj.drawn_cond); Aug 17 02:26:18 no, just add a line: if(myobj.screen.charBuf().visibleHeight() <= 0) return; Aug 17 02:26:41 which should only come before activate is called Aug 17 02:29:28 mrvc: hey there Aug 17 02:29:30 ok, just pushed the fix Aug 17 02:30:07 destinal: hey Aug 17 02:32:00 egaudet: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/198051-screen-keyboard-bugs-functionality-enhancements-6.html#post1827675 that post Aug 17 02:33:44 yea, remix does great work, I'm working on switching the keyboard over to use images for keys rather than text right now Aug 17 02:34:16 Zuchmir2: yep, that works Aug 17 02:34:24 destinal: just fixed that bug causing terminal to crash when coming out of prefs (mrvc help fix that one) Aug 17 02:34:33 ok, great! Aug 17 02:34:36 cool Aug 17 02:35:00 Zuchmir2: so, I wasn't seeing any assert Aug 17 02:35:20 bzhou * r10564 optware/trunk/platforms/ (20 files) - demoted sandbox on a dozen platforms Aug 17 02:35:39 termplugin.cpp:1370 assert(char_buf.currentRow() the currentRow was 999, the height was 1000 Aug 17 02:36:06 you saw an assertion failure? Aug 17 02:36:35 iline 1369 i added a fprintf, and saw the values there Aug 17 02:37:03 i don't know if we should be using assert() in production code Aug 17 02:37:18 it causes a crash instead of handling it gracefully Aug 17 02:37:58 it is disabled in production Aug 17 02:38:21 -DNDEBUG Aug 17 02:38:44 well that's where the error was, we did not have code to handle that error case Aug 17 02:40:57 Zuchmir2: I agree what you did fixed it, but I'm not sure how Aug 17 02:41:10 Zuchmir2: If I take out your check, I don't get an assert Aug 17 02:41:54 Zuchmir2: If I put in an explicit assert(0), it crashes Luna, which is what it should do Aug 17 02:42:14 Zuchmir2: so, I think an assert is missing somewhere Aug 17 02:42:34 Zuchmir2: and maybe memory gets overwritten Aug 17 02:43:34 could be an assert is missing somewhere Aug 17 02:45:42 sorry, char_buf.currentRow:999, char_buf.height:1000, which is ok, as (char_buf.currentRow() ... but somewhere the visibleHeight == 0 was causing the prob Aug 17 02:47:12 Zuchmir2: looks like it is the drawn_cond signal Aug 17 02:47:32 Zuchmir2: it hangs sending the drawn_cond signal Aug 17 02:48:21 Zuchmir2: so, I think what is happening is that the first draw is happening before the Select thread starts Aug 17 02:48:22 because there's no listner? Aug 17 02:48:38 that is certainly the case Aug 17 02:48:52 Zuchmir2: so, drawn_cond hasn't been initialized yet Aug 17 02:50:02 ok, so the fix is a kludge which "happens" to work Aug 17 02:50:14 we should really keep a flag then Aug 17 02:50:41 Zuchmir2: so, this is another way to fix it -- Aug 17 02:51:17 oil: woot, preware installs now, im lovin it :) add the precentral feed and it'll be as good as the rest already :P Aug 17 02:51:19 Zuchmir2: put if (myobj.selected_thread_started) {} around the pthread_cond_signal() Aug 17 02:52:10 oil: aww man, luna doesnt rescan after app installation yet :( Aug 17 02:52:38 that should be..... if (myobj.select_thread_started) ... Aug 17 02:53:03 hi; i am getting mounting /dev/hdb to /opt failded because /dev/hdb does not exist Aug 17 02:53:23 on optware install Aug 17 02:53:54 theplaz: you have to make another virtual hard disk in virtualbox Aug 17 02:53:58 the instructions have you do that Aug 17 02:54:05 on my real pre Aug 17 02:54:09 oh Aug 17 02:54:16 well that's a problem with the script then Aug 17 02:54:18 bbl Aug 17 02:54:21 i tried the install once Aug 17 02:54:45 and it did seem to go through, but could not ssh in, and username was not there next time I connected Aug 17 02:56:01 ok, that works Aug 17 02:57:10 tried to ssh in to the ip address (96.*.*.*.*) which is a verzion fios external ip and got connection refused. let me try turning off wifi Aug 17 02:57:53 ok, just pushed that mod Aug 17 02:59:28 ok connected now using ssh over evdo - but can't log in due to incorrect password **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Aug 17 02:59:56 2009