**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 02 02:59:58 2009 Sep 02 03:00:21 did they fail to get it in their feed somehow? Sep 02 03:00:27 or just break the formatting? Sep 02 03:00:59 all sorts of formatbreaking Sep 02 03:01:05 they have html right in the xml Sep 02 03:01:11 without CDATA wrapping it Sep 02 03:01:23 if any html tag doesn' Sep 02 03:01:28 doesn't have a closing tag Sep 02 03:01:32 it makes xml parsing puke Sep 02 03:02:10 oil: ouch Sep 02 03:02:14 yeah Sep 02 03:02:31 and some tags dont have closing tags Sep 02 03:02:31 I would hope they would fix it to protect against attack Sep 02 03:02:38 like Sep 02 03:02:47 but the correct format is Sep 02 03:03:04 right, a tag without a matching close ends in /> Sep 02 03:03:14 they really just need to add cdata Sep 02 03:03:19 then everything should be okeydokey Sep 02 03:03:38 assuming the java xml parser uses it correctly or whatever Sep 02 03:04:08 how does it even work now? Sep 02 03:04:17 magic Sep 02 03:04:29 lol Sep 02 03:04:32 :P Sep 02 03:06:32 rwhitby, ok, thanks Sep 02 03:08:01 how does one do ~ in terminal? Sep 02 03:09:30 the Terminal app for pre you mean? Sep 02 03:10:14 gkatsev: notice that the Twee entry in the XML does not have a URL for the ipkg ? Sep 02 03:10:34 No URL, no entry in preware.org Sep 02 03:10:41 ah, yes Sep 02 03:10:52 thats also probably why filecoaster wouldnt donwload it Sep 02 03:10:58 Best to ask the Twee author about that then. Sep 02 03:16:13 yep, looks like the website doesnt have the ipk either... Sep 02 03:16:23 in other niews, NaNplayer looks amazing Sep 02 03:16:57 how come I'm thinking Not a Number Sep 02 03:18:07 does nan really stand for anything else? Sep 02 03:18:11 thats what i thought as well. not sure what hes referring to Sep 02 03:18:28 nan... isn't that indian bread Sep 02 03:18:29 good stuff Sep 02 03:18:43 yep, ive made some Sep 02 03:18:46 so it's either a bread player or a non-numeric one Sep 02 03:18:47 its yummy Sep 02 03:18:58 a non-numberic bread player? Sep 02 03:19:13 GPS playlists? weird Sep 02 03:19:58 I've never really felt like, I'm driving in denver, I want different music than when I'm driving in LA Sep 02 03:20:03 no Sep 02 03:20:08 its so when you walk into your friends house Sep 02 03:20:09 stil much sexier than the built in music player Sep 02 03:20:11 it starts playing music Sep 02 03:20:21 (really, i dont know what its for) Sep 02 03:20:31 if someone adds 150% playback speed, im keeping my mp3 player at home Sep 02 03:20:50 150% playback? audiobooks>? Sep 02 03:20:58 audiobooks and podcasts Sep 02 03:21:12 I don't think I could deal with all the chipmunks Sep 02 03:21:31 "Then preware came out and holy codfish it was awesome." <- real user comment :-) Sep 02 03:21:47 destinal: if you do it well, the pitch should not change a lot, if at all, and itll sound normal, just a bit quick Sep 02 03:21:48 Indeed Sep 02 03:22:36 hmm Sep 02 03:22:50 take 1 of plopping libgstasf from debian into pre not working Sep 02 03:22:56 wish pre came w/ ldd Sep 02 03:22:57 yeah 150% really isn't bad, actually it's quite good. Sep 02 03:23:11 would be awesome if prepodder added it, (or whatever its called now) Sep 02 03:23:15 then could see if it wasnt linking right Sep 02 03:25:31 rwhitby: almost sounds like someone from ze Bible Sep 02 03:25:39 "And on the sixth day..." Sep 02 03:25:49 "...Preware was released, and all was good." Sep 02 03:26:14 rwhitby: you should add the holy codfish line to the taglines in the app :) Sep 02 03:26:26 oil, rwhitby, or to whom it may concern, why can preware install an app that wont install in filecoaster due to the not enough memory error? Sep 02 03:26:43 does it have to do with the service being used? Sep 02 03:26:52 kmax12: we use secret ancient inca technology Sep 02 03:27:06 * freakout plays pan-pipes Sep 02 03:27:08 rwhitby, are you sure pre is armel? Sep 02 03:27:13 nothings working for me Sep 02 03:27:20 well, 5 year old ipkg technology ... Sep 02 03:27:21 even static ldd from debian Sep 02 03:27:27 is it a specific version of debian I need? Sep 02 03:27:36 spotter: the optware feed is cs08q1armel from codesourcery. Sep 02 03:27:50 hmm Sep 02 03:27:58 but debian ldd doesn't run Sep 02 03:28:14 so it's definitely armel ABI, but there are about 50 other things which could cause it to be incompatible ... Sep 02 03:28:40 agreed Sep 02 03:28:46 but ldd being static should avoid all of them Sep 02 03:29:18 spotter: have you looked in optware for an ldd binary? Sep 02 03:29:32 hmm Sep 02 03:29:34 wait Sep 02 03:29:37 ldd isn't static Sep 02 03:29:39 its shell script Sep 02 03:29:40 isn't ldd a script? Sep 02 03:29:46 destinal, :) Sep 02 03:29:49 beat you Sep 02 03:29:51 :) Sep 02 03:29:58 let me guess Sep 02 03:30:00 no bash on pre Sep 02 03:30:08 yeah, bash in optware Sep 02 03:30:23 I need optware in preware :) Sep 02 03:30:25 but not in default install Sep 02 03:30:33 you could try switching it to /bin/sh Sep 02 03:30:40 rwhitby, why not just combine optware and terminal Sep 02 03:30:42 for now Sep 02 03:30:49 users use terminal to setup optware Sep 02 03:30:52 the sh on the default install is smarter than the original bourne by quite a bit Sep 02 03:30:56 I mean to configure it Sep 02 03:30:59 create ssh key.... Sep 02 03:31:12 spotter: you can just run the bootstrap script Sep 02 03:31:22 where is it? Sep 02 03:31:46 it's listed on the wiki page for installing optware Sep 02 03:32:04 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Sep 02 03:32:10 I see Sep 02 03:32:27 bbiab Sep 02 03:33:59 so how do I get ldd w/ optware? Sep 02 03:34:04 it might mean that twee iscoming to the app store? Sep 02 03:34:34 though, that means that it wont be free for long :(, though, if its 99 cents or something, i might actually pay Sep 02 03:34:41 * gkatsev is a poor college student Sep 02 03:35:21 if people depend on the app store to prevent piracy, the ipkg format it uses is not going to be kind to them Sep 02 03:35:30 it appears that appsource is down Sep 02 03:35:43 or rather the app catalog Sep 02 03:36:39 Hello.... Sep 02 03:36:51 hmm Sep 02 03:36:56 my optware didn't come w/ opt/bin/bash Sep 02 03:38:09 Max finally got it!!! Sep 02 03:38:18 rwhitby, you here? Sep 02 03:38:34 wut up ppl? Sep 02 03:38:39 1st timer here... Sep 02 03:38:57 spotter: yep Sep 02 03:38:58 I had to bring a new guy in... Sep 02 03:39:01 maxima2k53: welcome Sep 02 03:39:12 thanks rwhitby Sep 02 03:39:32 hmm Sep 02 03:39:35 figured out how to install bash Sep 02 03:39:40 /opt/bin/ipkg-opt install bash Sep 02 03:40:03 maxima2k53: so how is Preware 0.8.0 treating you? Sep 02 03:40:17 Tell him it sucks!! haha jk Sep 02 03:40:20 its actually awesome Sep 02 03:40:23 love the screenshots Sep 02 03:40:28 hmm Sep 02 03:40:31 what's "escape" in termal Sep 02 03:40:33 Yeah Rod the update is awesome Sep 02 03:40:33 i.e. in vi Sep 02 03:40:33 and loads much quicker.... Sep 02 03:40:37 Splmonster: I wouldn't care, it's all oil's work anyway ;-) Sep 02 03:40:45 b4 it would hand when loading...now its gr8 Sep 02 03:40:47 haha!! Thank YOU oil Sep 02 03:40:58 so what stopping someone from stealing the source to my App if it's all stored as js files on the pre? Sep 02 03:41:06 should i just give all the credit to Rod? haha Sep 02 03:41:25 figured it out Sep 02 03:41:27 orange-spce Sep 02 03:41:45 Insanefury: nothing other than honesty Sep 02 03:42:15 yea because we don't really compile anything on the pre do we? Sep 02 03:42:19 it's all like open source Sep 02 03:43:04 OBFUSCATION!!!!! Sep 02 03:43:07 Insanefury: we compile plugins and services Sep 02 03:43:35 webOS really expects you to have anything secret on the server side Sep 02 03:43:36 i c Sep 02 03:43:49 which isn't much help in the case of purely local apps, admittedly Sep 02 03:44:05 Insanefury: I've included source with my commercial apps for the last 25 years. Sep 02 03:44:26 which reminds me, I was going to research how Active Home Screen does their registration stuff ... (but not publish anything I find of course) Sep 02 03:44:38 hehehehehe Sep 02 03:45:06 of course, none of my customers are particularly interested in digging through a quarter of a million lines of source.... Sep 02 03:45:29 rwhitby: I still need to get that stupid virtual running so that I can set up a cros compile tool chain Sep 02 03:45:33 I will work on that tommorow Sep 02 03:45:36 :-( Sep 02 03:45:43 Doh! I forgot to fix the date format in Preware 0.8.0 Sep 02 03:45:50 I want to compile a "real" chess engine Sep 02 03:46:12 It still has that weird month-first thing happening ... Sep 02 03:46:41 Get on it then haha Sep 02 03:47:40 hmm Sep 02 03:47:59 don't know why gstreamer doesn't seem to see the asf plugin I dropped in Sep 02 03:48:05 ldd seems to show that everything resolves correctly Sep 02 03:48:56 spotter: you found an ldd somewhere? Sep 02 03:50:24 idd? Sep 02 03:52:01 Why does preware's screenshots say 0.7.8 :P Sep 02 03:53:18 cause thats what i took it in when i was testinbg Sep 02 03:53:31 ill take some new ones ;( Sep 02 03:55:15 rwhitby, yes Sep 02 03:55:17 installed optware Sep 02 03:55:24 then modified it for /opt/bin/bash Sep 02 03:55:28 and the shell script works fine Sep 02 03:56:22 oil: front page and Preware app page? Sep 02 03:56:52 eh? Sep 02 03:57:11 oh, I'm looking at the two-up screenshot on the wiki page Sep 02 03:57:24 you're talking about the six shots Sep 02 03:58:56 ill fix both Sep 02 03:59:42 though Sep 02 03:59:47 we probably dont really need 6 in preware Sep 02 03:59:52 that was just for testing Sep 02 04:04:09 hmm Sep 02 04:04:24 anyone have /var/lib/media/gstreamer-0.10/registry.bin Sep 02 04:04:39 I just deleted mine in an effort to get it to recreate it w/ asf lib and its not recreating Sep 02 04:04:45 so killed all my gstreamer stuff Sep 02 04:05:07 * zsoc considers something along the lines of mv registry.bin registry.bin.bck Sep 02 04:06:13 :) Sep 02 04:06:18 yes, that would have been smarter Sep 02 04:06:32 if some can place it on a webserver somewhere (scp?) it be great for me Sep 02 04:08:37 anyone? Sep 02 04:10:20 er, this is a file on my pre? Sep 02 04:10:22 1 sec Sep 02 04:11:51 yes Sep 02 04:11:58 /var/lib/media/gstreamer-0.10/registry.bin Sep 02 04:13:02 spotter, just get it out of the doctor Sep 02 04:13:03 if u downloaded sdk and ran the emulator Sep 02 04:13:09 couldn;t u get it from the sdk? Sep 02 04:13:16 yes Sep 02 04:13:23 or you could get it out of the webosdoctor jar Sep 02 04:13:46 true Sep 02 04:14:25 hmm Sep 02 04:14:35 its not in the main fs Sep 02 04:14:59 i got it Sep 02 04:15:19 can you scp it to some web server? Sep 02 04:15:30 preferably w/o a ~ as I don't know how to do ~ in pre terminal app Sep 02 04:15:31 :) Sep 02 04:16:14 er.. http://filebin.ca/mvqeze/registry.bin Sep 02 04:16:37 danke Sep 02 04:17:12 :) Sep 02 04:18:15 fixed it Sep 02 04:19:51 anyone kno how to enable wep for tethering ? Sep 02 04:20:43 Zuchmir2: how to look the output of "printf" in browser plugin? Sep 02 04:22:20 anyone knows? Sep 02 04:23:41 Good evening Sep 02 04:23:45 * zsoc smiggledoinks at everyone Sep 02 04:28:21 gnight Sep 02 04:34:29 Bit late to report, but Preware 0.8.0 goes gangbusters Sep 02 04:35:04 anyways Sep 02 04:36:10 off to bed Sep 02 04:36:18 annoyed w/ palm for really messing w/ gstreamer Sep 02 04:36:27 they are not making it easy to plop plugins in Sep 02 04:36:36 as they have a very static registry that doesn't want to be rebuilt Sep 02 04:37:40 palm screwed us in gstreamer it seems Sep 02 04:37:58 they seemed to have explicitly taken steps to prevent users from dropping in new support Sep 02 04:38:31 spotter that stinks. wonder why? Sep 02 04:38:36 dont know Sep 02 04:38:59 but they replaced gstreamer's built in registry support of the library plugins w/ their own minimal version it seems Sep 02 04:39:04 from my curosry examination Sep 02 04:39:15 and I can't figure out a constructive reason for them to have done it Sep 02 04:39:34 That's a shame. when i first heard they were gs i thought "sweet! easy to mod" Sep 02 04:39:42 yes Sep 02 04:39:44 me too Sep 02 04:39:49 sort of pissed now Sep 02 04:40:30 on behalf of users everywhere, I implore you not to give up :D Sep 02 04:41:56 anyway, enjoy your sleep Sep 02 04:42:23 though it appears to be very close (or same) as regular registry.bin Sep 02 04:44:21 it's not a different version or something? Sep 02 04:44:33 can you tell from the source code patches what is changed in it? Sep 02 04:45:51 pretty syre Sep 02 04:46:04 I'm guessing that they compiled it w/ GST_DISABLE_REGISTRY Sep 02 04:46:15 which makes gstreamer ignore most of its registry handling code Sep 02 04:46:23 then they added their own function that reads their own registry Sep 02 04:46:39 so if you delete the file, it dies (i.e. what happened to me) Sep 02 04:46:46 while in regular gstreamer it juts rebuilds the file Sep 02 04:47:24 spotter: have you look at the patches to gstreamer that Palm have released? Sep 02 04:47:41 yes Sep 02 04:47:49 I just said what I saw Sep 02 04:47:57 they add their own registry reading function Sep 02 04:48:12 whose only purpose seems to be if they compile w/ GST_DISABLE_REGISTRY Sep 02 04:48:28 can you tell if they have any custom fields in the registry? Sep 02 04:48:54 its a binary file, it appears to be similar, but not exactly the same as my ubuntu version Sep 02 04:48:58 but doesn't say much Sep 02 04:49:01 too difficult to tell Sep 02 04:49:19 would have to take their "read" code, and run it against ubuntu's registry to see if it can parse it Sep 02 04:49:23 I mean from the source code patches that access the registry file Sep 02 04:49:34 its independent of any other code it seems Sep 02 04:49:43 could someone verify the name of the db file in this directory for me "/var/palm/data/file_.usr.lib.luna.system.luna-applauncher_0" Sep 02 04:50:12 they added their own gst/GstReadBinRegistry.c file Sep 02 04:51:01 ok, so I know this isn't in any way a support channel, but just real quick: has anyone had their touch screen go completely nuts and start ghost clicking all over the place rapidly? Sep 02 04:51:47 i wouldn't think it would be related to software, much less dev-moding/rooting the device, but thought I'd see if anyone else has seen this before I return it for defective hardware Sep 02 04:52:10 facebook emailing the guy :) Sep 02 04:52:17 doubt I'll get an answer, but who knows :) Sep 02 04:53:27 examancer: are you the guy who posted on PreCentral about that, thinking that the Pre had been hacked? Sep 02 04:53:35 LOL Sep 02 04:53:42 no, i know that isn't the case Sep 02 04:53:49 and no, I did not post there Sep 02 04:53:50 lolol Sep 02 04:53:57 the "ghost touches"? Sep 02 04:54:00 ok, seems that it has happened to someone else then Sep 02 04:54:05 examancer, I've had my touch screen go nuts Sep 02 04:54:09 It could be Patrick Swayze Sep 02 04:54:09 i am definitely getting the same symptom though Sep 02 04:54:12 i.e. not take clicks in certain area Sep 02 04:54:23 they even did a youtube video - they thought someone was intentionally accessing playlists and stuff Sep 02 04:54:24 act as if its already has one click (so when I try to scroll it zooms instead) Sep 02 04:54:34 rofl Sep 02 04:54:38 I reboot and its fine Sep 02 04:54:39 mine won't respond and then it just starts showing the little click animation all over the screen for no reason Sep 02 04:54:46 did you reboot it? Sep 02 04:54:52 i've rebooted it, yes Sep 02 04:54:56 and no fix? Sep 02 04:54:59 then probably defective Sep 02 04:55:06 Why can't the damn emulator have sound and the audio service running Sep 02 04:55:11 i'm getting ready to wipe it clean. sometimes after reboot it works fine for a few minutes Sep 02 04:55:15 but thats as long as it goes Sep 02 04:55:21 the reason im asking for the file name in /var/palm/data/file_.usr.lib.luna.system.luna-applauncher_0 is because i believe it would be possible to create an app for windows and other os to be able to rearrange the programs in the launcher, once the issue with limited app installs is fixed it will make it quicker to be able to organize with a mouse and have the program write the changes to that database file. Sep 02 04:56:17 examancer: I'd say doctor it, don't load any homebrew, wait for it to happen again, take a video for proof, then take it back and get it replaced. Sep 02 04:56:44 video is a good idea incase it suddenly decides to work for a few minutes when i show up at the sprint store :-P Sep 02 04:56:46 rwhitby: the depends is already in the feed? Sep 02 04:56:51 thanks for the tip Sep 02 04:56:58 oil: yes Sep 02 04:58:06 examancer: show the serial number in the video Sep 02 04:58:20 then they can't say you faked it Sep 02 04:58:25 I'm hoping the file name is 0000000000000005.db, can someone verify Sep 02 04:58:29 i was just thinking how to identify that its mine... that makes sense Sep 02 04:58:39 hopefully my web cam is good enough to capture that Sep 02 04:58:52 otherwise i might just write my name on a peice of paper so they at least know its MY video Sep 02 04:59:05 ROFL: this.announcer.announceDialFail(4242, "you're riding the failboat."); Sep 02 05:01:02 rwhitby: none of them have " (x.x.x)" yet? Sep 02 05:01:11 oil: nope Sep 02 05:01:32 oil: preware probably should depend on a >= for ipkgservice soon Sep 02 05:04:49 could you maybe put something like that in there so i can use it for testing? Sep 02 05:05:21 Rick around? Sep 02 05:05:33 oil: I'll put one in for accelexample Sep 02 05:05:38 ok Sep 02 05:08:27 done Sep 02 05:08:35 ok Sep 02 05:09:17 no one can verify that file name? Sep 02 05:10:15 theo: no such file on the emulator Sep 02 05:10:22 are they split by ',' Sep 02 05:10:27 or ', ' Sep 02 05:10:34 oil: could be either Sep 02 05:10:35 (if you cant tell, one has a space) Sep 02 05:10:38 ok Sep 02 05:11:16 rwhitby: thanks Sep 02 05:11:42 could someone look on the device and see if that file is present and verify the name Sep 02 05:12:15 this is the file that save the application order inside the launcher menu Sep 02 05:12:15 always "space(x.x.x)"? Sep 02 05:13:02 it is a simple sqlite db file Sep 02 05:14:39 oil: again, could be either Sep 02 05:15:06 who makes this shit up? Sep 02 05:15:09 lol Sep 02 05:15:22 rwhitby: very good news, the pre will power a usb hub or keyboard in OTG mode with a micro-A adapter cable plugged in Sep 02 05:15:36 lol Sep 02 05:15:38 I don't see anything in dmesg, and have to install lsusb or whatever Sep 02 05:16:27 so I'm not sure if it's actually detecting anything there, but that could just be drivers Sep 02 05:18:37 echo otg > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc.0/mode Sep 02 05:18:37 destinal: how to look the output of "printf" in browser plugin? Sep 02 05:18:38 whats good Sep 02 05:18:46 then plug something in, and it lights up Sep 02 05:18:57 are there any meshed patches released yet ? :( Sep 02 05:19:03 should i? Sep 02 05:19:22 ameng: run LunaSysMgr in the foreground Sep 02 05:19:44 initctl stop LunaSysMgr; LunaSysMgr Sep 02 05:20:06 then you'll see the fprintf's to stderr easily Sep 02 05:20:20 ok Sep 02 05:20:47 rwhitby have you a palm nw? Sep 02 05:20:57 nw? Sep 02 05:21:00 now* Sep 02 05:21:13 I have had Palm devices for many years. Sep 02 05:21:21 And use a Treo 650 currently. Sep 02 05:21:24 ahh.. yes but THEE palm ;] Sep 02 05:21:26 grr... my touchpad was acting up so bad I couldn't even navigate to reset the device. had to remote wipe. i'll know once and for all if its a hardware issue soon Sep 02 05:21:59 oc80z: no GSM Pre released yet. and no-one has donated a CDMA Pre (which won't work as a phone here) either ... Sep 02 05:22:13 hmmph Sep 02 05:22:19 rwhitby: damn, nobody will get excited about something as cool as usb otg almost working. :) Sep 02 05:22:43 destinal: I'm excited. I was waiting until you pasted the output from lsusb ... Sep 02 05:22:58 rwhitby can you webos http://openpandora.org/ Sep 02 05:23:06 imagine. Sep 02 05:23:13 heh, I need to NOT use usbnet for once Sep 02 05:23:24 oc80z: webOS is not open source, so I doubt that I could. Sep 02 05:23:25 not set up for wifi, just a sec Sep 02 05:24:09 yeah imagine, i read the chipset is identical Sep 02 05:25:06 where are all of the JS gurus..... Sep 02 05:26:05 rwhitby: was kind of tongue in cheek, I realize the *almost* part takes something out of it. can you believe I hardly ever use wifi on this thing? (evdo is usually just fine) Sep 02 05:27:08 destinal: getting the power to work is the easy bit - talk to me when you have enumeration ;-) Sep 02 05:27:41 rwhitby: actually I was more worried about power than anything else Sep 02 05:28:08 I'm not a USB otg chipset expert but I imagine they could have not connected a couple of traces on the board and we'd be stuck using injectors Sep 02 05:28:33 destinal: plenty of battery-powered hubs that came out of openmoko hacking Sep 02 05:30:05 hmm Sep 02 05:38:06 eyyyyy folks Sep 02 05:38:30 ah, yes, twee is moving to the official app catalog, wah, i have to wait till it gets there... Sep 02 05:40:40 alas, no enumeration, so there's work to be done still.. I wonder if there's some conflict with the gadget module Sep 02 05:41:25 or if the musb_hdrc driver's not quite working properly Sep 02 05:42:03 so with preware is it okay to just ipkg -o /var update / upgrade ? Sep 02 05:42:13 psykoz: yeah Sep 02 05:42:32 Thanks ;) Sep 02 05:42:42 psykoz: as long as you run prerm and postinst manually Sep 02 05:42:55 huh? :O Sep 02 05:43:11 well usually in an update you won't need to change the stuff that prerm and postinst changes, right? Sep 02 05:43:13 if it tells you "not running foo due to offline mode" then you need to run foo Sep 02 05:43:32 I mean, it's not never Sep 02 05:43:32 destinal: it can easily happen - I almost decided to do it for ipkgservice 0.8.0 Sep 02 05:44:08 well we need a command like ipkg-foo that supports an "almost offline" mode :) Sep 02 05:44:35 destinal: yeah, I've been considering recompiling Palm's ipkg with a simple patch like that Sep 02 05:44:54 install it as a "preware" binary ... Sep 02 05:45:15 make it a dependency of the service. Sep 02 05:45:44 or just include it in ipkgservice Sep 02 05:46:23 the trouble is, that to install such an improved ipkgservice, you need to run a postinst ... Sep 02 05:46:26 catch 22 Sep 02 05:46:39 psykoz: so, right now, I don't know of any service or plugin that _needs_ prerm and postinst *between versions* so you should be okay, (which is what I meant) Sep 02 05:46:50 but soon the same thing could be problematic Sep 02 05:46:59 says ipkgservice not running Sep 02 05:47:01 hm...terminal doesnt work, just black screen. but its 1:45AM, guess itll wait till tomorrow Sep 02 05:47:01 ;( Sep 02 05:47:08 destinal: virtual keyboard patch most certainly does Sep 02 05:47:37 psykoz: did you install the ipkgservice? Sep 02 05:47:39 you need to revert the old patch before installing the new Sep 02 05:47:42 rwhitby: aha. patches Sep 02 05:47:47 gkatsev, yes Sep 02 05:48:08 psykoz: what rwhitby said then Sep 02 05:48:48 oh well worst case scenario I'll just uninstall/reinstall Sep 02 05:48:49 not a big deal ;) Sep 02 05:48:50 also, restart might help Sep 02 05:52:44 wow, a lot fewer kernel modules on castle than qemux86 Sep 02 05:52:59 it's almost monolithic on the pre Sep 02 05:54:15 wanted to play with the usb gadget module config, but not happening easily Sep 02 05:55:28 anway, night guys Sep 02 05:57:18 damn that StopGeek guy was harsh. we're wannabe iphone users now? Sep 02 05:57:33 gkatsev: good night Sep 02 05:57:35 * oil wishes he was Sep 02 05:57:51 oil: huh? Sep 02 05:57:58 kidding Sep 02 05:58:24 heh, you should have gone a little more over the top so it was obvious Sep 02 05:58:35 ill remember that next time Sep 02 05:59:14 * freakout adds oil to the list of non-believers Sep 02 05:59:35 * freakout prepares for witch trial Sep 02 05:59:35 non-believers? Sep 02 05:59:50 ;) Sep 02 05:59:56 ALL U PRETARDS R PRETARDED Sep 02 05:59:59 'k there, I said it Sep 02 06:00:05 * oil hasn't been watching the chat Sep 02 06:00:12 Anyone around that knows JS fairly well? Sep 02 06:00:14 NO ALL U ITARDS ARE TRDED Sep 02 06:00:46 they're all retired? Sep 02 06:00:53 lol Sep 02 06:01:07 bloody hell, it feels like the engadget comment section Sep 02 06:01:34 http://imgur.com/vKy5j.jpg Sep 02 06:02:25 preware is definitely the secks now with screenshots and other stuff Sep 02 06:02:31 srsly Sep 02 06:02:58 hey rwhitby wut exactly does the accelerometer service do? Sep 02 06:03:20 * freakout adds oils link to Motivational bookmarks folder. (no really, I have one) Sep 02 06:03:27 lol Sep 02 06:04:02 rwhitby: afternoon, I just sent you an update IPKG Installer. Let me know what you think... Sep 02 06:05:24 maxima2k53: the accel service is to adjust the sampling rate of the accelerometer Sep 02 06:05:29 http://i30.tinypic.com/vsgy8h.png Sep 02 06:05:35 service/plugin view more like mockup? Sep 02 06:05:47 with icon list instead of screenshots Sep 02 06:06:10 yeah, lol, screenshots of services is an amusing idea Sep 02 06:06:17 yeah Sep 02 06:06:18 well Sep 02 06:06:18 @ destinal so its supposed to help the pre right? Sep 02 06:06:25 the mockup had app icons that depend on them Sep 02 06:06:29 so, thats what it now does Sep 02 06:06:40 oil: nice Sep 02 06:06:41 tapping the icon, takes you to the apps view Sep 02 06:07:09 bc i just installed it on the pre and it made it verrrrryyyyy slow and i uninstalled it and it went back to normal Sep 02 06:07:09 though Sep 02 06:07:11 most have just 1 Sep 02 06:07:19 infacty Sep 02 06:07:28 all plugins and services are used once only Sep 02 06:07:29 lol Sep 02 06:07:32 hopefully thatl change Sep 02 06:09:36 yeah, we need to make sure we're making good architectural choices there too Sep 02 06:09:53 right now we've basically written support for what we need for the app we're working on right now Sep 02 06:10:26 with the exception of accel and led I guess Sep 02 06:11:02 destinal: but the whole consent thing is architected so any app can use ipkgservice Sep 02 06:11:17 rwhitby: that's true Sep 02 06:11:51 good work on that by the way -- I still haven't had a chance to review that code :-/ Sep 02 06:12:34 but it seems to be pretty well laid out Sep 02 06:12:42 thanks for the information guys...gn Sep 02 06:13:03 destinal: Jason was asking whether his Internalz app could use the termplugin to run a command (getting user consent of course) Sep 02 06:13:35 rwhitby: it's totally built to not allow exactly that Sep 02 06:13:44 alas Sep 02 06:14:30 with the security fixes we put in a while back, termplugin only accepts input from Luna directly now Sep 02 06:15:22 which as a downside makes it not very useful for other apps, on the upside, it means it's not useful for command execution by malicious apps either Sep 02 06:16:15 really the stuff about sending key codes from luna was a hack, the proper way (and what we do now) is to get focus and let luna send us the events directly Sep 02 06:16:32 s/from luna/from mojo app/ Sep 02 06:16:33 destinal meant: really the stuff about sending key codes from mojo app was a hack, the proper way (and what we do now) is to get focus and let luna send us the events directly Sep 02 06:19:23 destinal: re batteryadapter Sep 02 06:19:40 destinal: i couldnt get the palm batteyr info over luna-send Sep 02 06:19:49 ah Sep 02 06:20:00 so maybe you use luna-send with shit that requires subscriptions Sep 02 06:20:01 idk Sep 02 06:20:11 luna-send never returns Sep 02 06:20:18 but it might work in mojo Sep 02 06:20:30 and since its not documented that i know of... Sep 02 06:20:41 Bah. http://www.facebook.com/palm?v=app_116254863245&viewas=703904926 is open to US residents only. Sep 02 06:20:42 luna-send works with every service call I've ever seen Sep 02 06:20:48 i am willing to bet my service provides more info Sep 02 06:20:49 Someone win me a Palm Pre ... ;-) Sep 02 06:20:59 destinal: did u try the battery info Sep 02 06:21:24 PuffTheMagic: not yet, no Sep 02 06:21:31 destinal: maybe i was tyring on the emu with no battery Sep 02 06:21:32 idk Sep 02 06:21:36 destinal: try it Sep 02 06:21:47 have a palm service URL handy? Sep 02 06:22:57 it won't return because it is private....at least that is what it was showing on the ones I tried Sep 02 06:23:15 Ikyo: luna-send uses the private bus by default Sep 02 06:23:35 PuffTheMagic: also what do you think about my usb OTG mode that provides power but doesn't enumerate devices? Sep 02 06:23:39 hmm, mine kept spitting out an org.json error Sep 02 06:24:07 I suspect kernel issues Sep 02 06:24:13 destinal: probably Sep 02 06:24:30 g_composite logic probbaly bad Sep 02 06:24:51 it's a good sign though that it is at least registering otg mode and my cable's probably good Sep 02 06:25:54 I bought the micro-A male to standard female adapter cable on digikey, others have used them on N800's I think Sep 02 06:26:30 destinal: i cant find the info for the percentage thing now Sep 02 06:26:36 i looked at the patch Sep 02 06:26:56 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Show_Actual_Battery_Percentage Sep 02 06:27:40 I forget, was there a button combo on the device to take screenshots? or did I imagine that? Sep 02 06:28:02 orange sym p? Sep 02 06:28:25 PuffTheMagic: yeah it looks like it may be subscription only Sep 02 06:28:32 ie it doesn't have an initial return Sep 02 06:28:47 interesting Sep 02 06:29:26 oil++ # thanks! Sep 02 06:30:01 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_GPS_Tracking Sep 02 06:30:15 Mojo.Service.Request('palm://com.palm.power/com/palm/power/', {method: 'batteryStatusQuery',}); Sep 02 06:30:23 right, and Sep 02 06:30:28 luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.power/com/palm/power/batteryStatusQuery {} Sep 02 06:30:55 doesn't return a response like most do Sep 02 06:31:23 looks like it may subscribe you Sep 02 06:31:45 so maybe until the system gets a new update you won't see anything Sep 02 06:32:35 ...its provision wednesday! Sep 02 06:32:42 oc80z: ? Sep 02 06:36:59 exactly Sep 02 06:37:18 So there are reports of accelservice borking people's Pre's. Can anyone confirm or deny? Sep 02 06:37:28 lol Sep 02 06:37:33 * oil hasnt installed it Sep 02 06:37:42 i.e. does accelservice and accelexample work together for anyone as designed? Sep 02 06:38:10 it worked for egaudet_zzz at least ... Sep 02 06:38:22 ah, no evdo after webosdoc Sep 02 06:39:00 destinal: to subscribe, you need to send '{"subscribe":"true"}' and use a bigger number than 1 for the -n option to luna-send Sep 02 06:40:50 i also found instead of -n and a number try -t and a number. -t will show output for x number of seconds, where -n waits for a certain number of responses Sep 02 06:41:29 -t 20 and subscribe, still nothing. maybe battery updates are just really infrequent Sep 02 06:41:42 and it doesn't seem to ever come back with an initial one Sep 02 06:41:44 rtn n' stuff. Sep 02 06:41:50 i really should write that # down Sep 02 06:42:44 luna-send -t 10 palm://com.palm.location/getCurrentPosition '{"subscribe":"true"}' works though Sep 02 06:42:51 so I know I'm trying the right concept Sep 02 06:45:04 k time for bed Sep 02 06:45:09 BED?! Sep 02 06:45:10 night all Sep 02 06:45:14 there's hacking to be done! Sep 02 06:45:56 oil: I know, I fail. hack sleep, and then I'll get more done :) Sep 02 06:46:19 lol Sep 02 06:46:19 later Sep 02 06:46:21 one more thing to try.... Sep 02 06:46:33 cat /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/w1_master_slaves to get the battery ID Sep 02 06:46:52 then cat /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/IDNUMBER/getpercent to get the battery percent Sep 02 06:47:03 **untested as I don't have a Pre** Sep 02 06:47:14 root@castle:/var/home/root# cat /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/w1_master_slaves Sep 02 06:47:14 32-0008404532f8 Sep 02 06:47:36 root@castle:/var/home/root# cat /sys/devices/w1_bus_master1/32-0008404532f8/getpercent Sep 02 06:47:37 44 Sep 02 06:47:42 looks good to me Sep 02 06:47:48 greg_roll FTW Sep 02 06:48:17 what have I missed today? Sep 02 06:48:24 EVERYTHING Sep 02 06:48:32 oh noes Sep 02 06:48:39 can someone fill me in lol Sep 02 06:48:41 cool! not sure if you can use that in an app though Sep 02 06:48:45 1.2 was released Sep 02 06:49:06 xD Sep 02 06:49:10 hahahaha Sep 02 06:49:14 I called it! Sep 02 06:49:17 lol Sep 02 06:49:17 :P Sep 02 06:49:39 I had a bad day dream Sep 02 06:49:47 1.2 was released, I had to redo all my mods hahahahahha Sep 02 06:50:00 HAHA Sep 02 06:50:25 so seriously what happened today? Sep 02 06:50:31 I haven't fired up preware yet hahaha Sep 02 06:50:34 yikes eguy Sep 02 06:50:53 someone released a crappy blocked clone Sep 02 06:50:54 xD Sep 02 06:51:16 should we not mesh some of those patches? Sep 02 06:51:24 :/ Sep 02 06:51:36 haha Sep 02 06:51:44 I had wifi on all day today Sep 02 06:51:52 battery life not better than evdo :( Sep 02 06:52:01 wooho Sep 02 06:52:06 lots of app updates Sep 02 06:53:22 woohoo Sep 02 06:53:49 greg_roll: shall I set up an ipkg-installer repo for you as per our email conversation? Sep 02 06:54:50 rwhitby I can update the ipkgservice with terminal right? Sep 02 06:54:53 Eguy: Preware 0.8.0 - check the screenshots support Sep 02 06:55:04 Eguy: sure, run the postinst Sep 02 06:55:12 roger roger Sep 02 06:58:19 working great sir rwhitby Sep 02 06:58:33 Eguy: don't thank me, oil did everything ;-) Sep 02 06:58:39 a Sep 02 06:58:40 h Sep 02 06:58:44 * Eguy bows to lord oil Sep 02 06:59:17 rwhitby: yes that would be great! I sent you the latest version by email. Im just working on the dotnet version now... Sep 02 06:59:25 rwhitby: did you get access to change logs via Preware? Sep 02 06:59:32 I'm just the servant who scoops up the crumbs under Lord Oil's table, and shares them with the hungry masses .... Sep 02 06:59:54 psh Sep 02 07:02:12 wooooooooot Opera 10.0 <3 Sep 02 07:02:36 Eguy: in the PreCentral feed? Sep 02 07:02:46 rwhitby: yes Sep 02 07:02:57 ? Sep 02 07:02:58 cool - does Preware install it ok? Sep 02 07:03:21 or does the Opera postinst restart services ? Sep 02 07:03:48 I'm just talking about opera for desktop... Sep 02 07:04:00 10 went final today Sep 02 07:04:06 oh, sorry, I thought you were being on-topic ;-) Sep 02 07:04:12 ;) Sep 02 07:04:17 on topic though Sep 02 07:04:19 rwhitby: get a pre yet? Sep 02 07:04:33 heh Sep 02 07:04:34 is there a way to put in change logs in preware? Sep 02 07:04:44 :( Sep 02 07:04:59 Robi_: nope, no GSM Pre for Australia yet, and no-one has won me a spare CDMA one in the facebook competition for me to use the non-phone features at least ... Sep 02 07:05:09 funkatron did. Sep 02 07:05:18 how many have hands on witha gphone? Sep 02 07:05:49 rwhitby: im keeping a close eye on this site http://www.mobicity.com.au/palm-pre.html Sep 02 07:06:14 $900?! Sep 02 07:06:15 ouch Sep 02 07:06:23 greg_roll: $899 is about what I expected for an unlocked Sep 02 07:06:26 you can say ouch again Sep 02 07:06:37 shit Sep 02 07:06:44 err Sep 02 07:06:44 thats $100 cheaper then my car Sep 02 07:06:50 is that legit? Sep 02 07:06:51 HAHA Sep 02 07:06:59 the unlocked verizon storm , is moar Sep 02 07:07:04 thats in Australian $$$ unlocked Sep 02 07:07:12 you can use your car to run over a per pwner and pwn it Sep 02 07:07:20 apparently they will be getting the GSM stock from hongkong Sep 02 07:07:37 i think the Telstra Aus version will be out in Jan according to www.ow.com.au (via phone call) Sep 02 07:07:40 yeh like the iphone clone Sep 02 07:07:43 then rwhitby can actually test with a pre Sep 02 07:07:47 greg_roll: the list of bands is interesting. I thought there were separate EU and NA versions of the UMTS pre. Sep 02 07:07:48 * oil wont know what to think Sep 02 07:07:51 nice and cheap heh. Sep 02 07:08:00 offfffff topicccccccc Sep 02 07:08:03 ;) Sep 02 07:08:07 w/e what should the topic be Sep 02 07:08:22 preware 0.8.1 Sep 02 07:08:25 true. Sep 02 07:08:26 xD Sep 02 07:08:36 1.2 Sep 02 07:08:38 ;) Sep 02 07:08:39 haha Sep 02 07:08:45 out tomorrow Sep 02 07:08:54 greg_roll: I'm calling bs on the list of bands on that site Sep 02 07:08:56 yeah Sep 02 07:09:06 * Robi_ waves, nite Sep 02 07:09:07 i hope it has some missing features Sep 02 07:09:29 greg_roll: but I'm really hoping I'm wrong and they are right. Sep 02 07:09:32 +50 on the new preware though Sep 02 07:09:36 working good Sep 02 07:09:42 greg_roll, rwhitby: January could be right. Sep 02 07:09:53 change log is my only request ;) Sep 02 07:09:56 I make a point of harrassing Palm AU and the telcos every coupla weeks. Sep 02 07:09:58 whats new in 8.1 and 1.2 Sep 02 07:10:00 * oil thinks canuck software feed needs dependencies Sep 02 07:10:00 Eguy: have you experienced the full-screen screenshot viewer scrolling sideways? Sep 02 07:10:15 * oil thinks it also needs some last-update times Sep 02 07:10:19 yeah i hope its right! I want a Pre. (sorry for the off topic talk :) ) Sep 02 07:10:29 They're so freaking cryptic. I thought it would be August here, but no dice Sep 02 07:10:36 oooooohhh Sep 02 07:10:38 hey, getting the founder of this channel a Pre is *always* on-topic. Sep 02 07:10:38 wupps Sep 02 07:10:56 I didn't realize there was a change log in the precentral feed Sep 02 07:10:59 *facepalm* Sep 02 07:11:02 there isnt Sep 02 07:11:04 well Sep 02 07:11:12 unless the developer puts it in their description Sep 02 07:11:16 yeah Sep 02 07:12:04 Tried bugging folks at your local stores, rwhitby? Sep 02 07:12:13 I'm actually planning that myself next week. Sep 02 07:12:14 and webos-internals is way too lazy to do anything like that, unless I get the autobuilder to automate it from the git tag comment ... Sep 02 07:12:15 they don't have the, Sep 02 07:12:34 oil: LOL blocked car Sep 02 07:12:42 If US stores can leak inventories and so forth, I figure there must be an AU one out there willing to do the same Sep 02 07:12:42 freakout: local stores in Adelaide suck. The only non-carrier store that knew about Palm has dropped them. Sep 02 07:12:43 yeah Sep 02 07:12:44 i know Sep 02 07:12:49 as long as i give the right secret handshake Sep 02 07:12:51 at first i was liek "WHAT SOMEONE ELSE MADE ONE?" Sep 02 07:12:55 hahaha Sep 02 07:12:56 then tried it out Sep 02 07:12:58 SUE SUE SUE SUE SUE Sep 02 07:12:58 and it was crap Sep 02 07:13:00 so, i dont care Sep 02 07:13:07 no dragging or flicking Sep 02 07:13:14 then with the money you make Sep 02 07:13:14 you tap a side Sep 02 07:13:16 and it moves one space Sep 02 07:13:20 you can send ol Rod there a Pre ;) Sep 02 07:13:24 so beating a puzzle takes like 90 taps Sep 02 07:13:33 instead of 8 flicks Sep 02 07:13:41 and there is only 30 puzzles Sep 02 07:13:46 * oil looked at the code Sep 02 07:13:53 and they did it with 0 mojo Sep 02 07:13:57 its all in index.html Sep 02 07:14:48 though Sep 02 07:14:51 now i feel bad for the guy Sep 02 07:14:51 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/201038-blocked-car.html Sep 02 07:15:05 you gotta have the mojo baby yeah! Sep 02 07:15:20 heh, webos 1.1 is available for download Sep 02 07:15:26 i think i had an old webosdoc Sep 02 07:15:57 been out for a while mate ;) Sep 02 07:16:03 xD Sep 02 07:16:08 I am liking Screamager Sep 02 07:16:31 I used it during a meeting across the room LOL Sep 02 07:18:44 rwhitby: you see http://i30.tinypic.com/vsgy8h.png? Sep 02 07:19:09 http://tinyurl.com/kwdooa cheap pc Sep 02 07:19:43 oil: yeah, it's a shame so much space gets used for a single icon in most cases now (and probably no more than 2 in the medium term0 Sep 02 07:20:06 yeah Sep 02 07:20:12 but it will expand as things grow Sep 02 07:20:18 and more general services get used by more things Sep 02 07:20:25 maybe a button to push to see a list of all the app icons and titles of the apps that use it Sep 02 07:21:15 then you can use that same view for all the dependencies of an app Sep 02 07:21:37 ping-pong between the two views using those buttons ... Sep 02 07:21:55 we need a gui refresh app Sep 02 07:22:05 that does the luna-send blah blah Sep 02 07:22:13 * oil had been thinking about that Sep 02 07:22:22 Eguy: you could write an app that uses ipkgservice to do that Sep 02 07:22:24 after using destinals terminal Sep 02 07:22:32 I COULD write an app Sep 02 07:22:40 however, I don't have the time ;) Sep 02 07:22:42 and people who use preware will already have the ipkgservice Sep 02 07:22:44 hey Sep 02 07:22:51 2 apps 1 service!?!?! Sep 02 07:22:54 yep Sep 02 07:22:57 lol Sep 02 07:23:04 when its in the service Sep 02 07:23:10 ill whip up an app with 3 buttons or whatever Sep 02 07:23:11 just for that Sep 02 07:23:28 rescan and restartservices are already there Sep 02 07:23:37 what's the command for what Eguy is talking about? Sep 02 07:23:45 itl take me less time to make the app then it would templarian to create the icon Sep 02 07:24:01 and i dont remember if thats his name Sep 02 07:24:05 i usually t+tab it out Sep 02 07:24:22 rwhitby: luna-send -n 1 palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} Sep 02 07:24:34 no Sep 02 07:24:35 we got that one Sep 02 07:24:36 the other one Sep 02 07:24:42 that quickinstall does after a tweak Sep 02 07:24:51 oh Sep 02 07:24:56 I am talking about that one Sep 02 07:24:57 where it goes back to the palm logo Sep 02 07:24:59 for a second Sep 02 07:25:05 so you don't have to do a reboot Sep 02 07:25:12 after you use terminal Sep 02 07:25:19 that should be an option though Sep 02 07:25:26 along with rescan and servicerestart Sep 02 07:25:47 thats the one that something like the virtual keyboard would use, right? Sep 02 07:25:54 to reload the framework Sep 02 07:25:58 Hi, Rick_work. R u still here? Sep 02 07:26:02 woah Sep 02 07:26:09 just realized a new feature of win 7 Sep 02 07:26:14 sweet! Sep 02 07:26:23 i havent upgraded yet Sep 02 07:26:29 ...yeah? Sep 02 07:26:31 which is? Sep 02 07:26:33 ill have to get a new video card to be able to do it Sep 02 07:26:41 you can click in the area in media center Sep 02 07:26:45 it doesnt support one of mine ;( Sep 02 07:26:47 the timeline of the recording Sep 02 07:26:55 to skip anywhere Sep 02 07:26:56 wow - I just looked at how WebOS Quick Install does tweaks. Sep 02 07:27:04 ok Sep 02 07:27:07 I sure hope Jason is getting lots of donations. Sep 02 07:27:19 as much as pregame? Sep 02 07:27:22 hmmm really oil? Aero in 7 is WAY less intensive than Vista was Sep 02 07:27:27 yeah Sep 02 07:27:28 cause the way he is doing those tweaks is *very* labour intensive Sep 02 07:27:31 but my card just isnt supported Sep 02 07:27:32 and 915 chipsets are supported Sep 02 07:27:37 finally Sep 02 07:27:49 its got a vista driver Sep 02 07:27:54 but not a 7 driver Sep 02 07:28:05 and i dont think i could do without my right monitor Sep 02 07:28:08 i would feel lopsided Sep 02 07:28:51 I heard they gave 915 a WDDM driver in 7 Sep 02 07:29:18 I am running win 7 on a netbook with full aero hahaha Sep 02 07:29:19 http://i30.tinypic.com/29gj5tx.jpg Sep 02 07:29:23 * oil needs that right monitor Sep 02 07:29:26 oil: in virtual Keyboard there is a file that determine which theme of keyboard you r using, Can I use Another kb_config.json for each language? let say spanish and english use another theme of keyboard. is it possible? Sep 02 07:29:47 Dogy: i know nothing about the virtual keyboard Sep 02 07:30:13 Where's Rick? Sep 02 07:30:14 Dogy: there is one kb_config.json for the keyboard Sep 02 07:30:20 sleeping? Sep 02 07:30:26 I don't think you can use 2 at the same time Sep 02 07:30:41 So how can I set on theme for each language? Sep 02 07:30:57 make a copy of the original json? Sep 02 07:31:04 and rename the original one Sep 02 07:31:15 I copied kb_config.json Sep 02 07:31:45 and tried to put it under resources/xx_xx but it doesnt worked Sep 02 07:32:03 hmm Sep 02 07:32:26 I wish I could help you furthur Sep 02 07:32:35 further* Sep 02 07:32:53 maybe I should delete the original file and leave only those under resources/xx_xx u think it could help? Sep 02 07:33:06 possibly Sep 02 07:33:11 save a backup though Sep 02 07:33:16 let me check. I let u know Sep 02 07:33:22 * oil looks forward to multiple screenshots in the pc feed rwhitby Sep 02 07:33:58 oil: we got a static test xml file from PreCentral, and it looks good - it should go live tomorrow I expect. Sep 02 07:34:07 good Sep 02 07:34:22 lulz Sep 02 07:34:23 oil Sep 02 07:34:33 coo setup Sep 02 07:34:48 lol Sep 02 07:35:02 my 2 monitors are enough for me hahaa Sep 02 07:35:09 2 were enough Sep 02 07:35:17 u got 2 22 inche? Sep 02 07:35:21 screens Sep 02 07:35:21 ? Sep 02 07:35:25 2 19s Sep 02 07:35:25 I have 1 24 and one 21 Sep 02 07:35:34 but then i got the 27 incher to go between them Sep 02 07:35:35 xD Sep 02 07:35:38 Why u need all that? Sep 02 07:35:46 why not? Sep 02 07:35:51 why yes? Sep 02 07:35:59 multitasking? Sep 02 07:36:10 yea Sep 02 07:36:18 What CPU i've got? Sep 02 07:36:20 i have trouble using pcs with 1 monitor nowadays Sep 02 07:36:25 freaking hell oil. Looks like you'd pilot the Enterprise with that rig Sep 02 07:36:26 ive got 2 at work, and 3 at home Sep 02 07:36:35 lol enterprise Sep 02 07:36:42 core 2 quad Sep 02 07:36:52 which one oil? Sep 02 07:36:56 I have a q9450 Sep 02 07:36:58 idk Sep 02 07:37:03 q6600? Sep 02 07:37:08 i dont remember which one Sep 02 07:37:09 Equy, now the keyboard isnt starting... Sep 02 07:37:15 Got any other Idea? Sep 02 07:37:20 think with me... Sep 02 07:37:22 Dogy: do you have at least one json? Sep 02 07:37:29 I am about to go to sleep :( Sep 02 07:37:34 i got to post one up Sep 02 07:37:37 * oil IS going to sleep Sep 02 07:37:39 yes but not in his original place.. Sep 02 07:37:43 later Sep 02 07:37:53 lies! Sep 02 07:38:01 i put it under resources/xx_xx Sep 02 07:38:12 well it has to be in /media/internal/virtual-keyboard dogy Sep 02 07:38:18 or it won't work Sep 02 07:38:38 So can I open there maybe a resources folders? Sep 02 07:38:56 you don't need a resources folder... Sep 02 07:39:03 http://i31.tinypic.com/2446255.jpg Sep 02 07:39:06 heh Sep 02 07:39:23 Or add something to the file? Sep 02 07:39:33 that is ghetto Sep 02 07:39:37 those crts Sep 02 07:39:53 http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1039114/Rig.jpg --- Mine. i dual on the big TV often, but no need right now Sep 02 07:39:53 move to LCD monitors.. Sep 02 07:40:32 only XBOX360? no wii? Sep 02 07:40:45 No games I want, Dogy Sep 02 07:41:08 I've posted mine before but since we are so off topic as usual when I speak in here Sep 02 07:41:32 :) Sep 02 07:41:36 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3374378442_3f665c22e3_b.jpg Sep 02 07:41:48 Send more room pics Sep 02 07:41:55 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3534/3464897980_8a29554d97_b.jpg Sep 02 07:42:22 this is better, Sep 02 07:42:28 I like ur working space Sep 02 07:42:38 look at all that piping. would't wanna spring a leak eguy Sep 02 07:42:55 you have no idea how tough that tubing is Sep 02 07:43:05 you need garden shears to cut it ;) Sep 02 07:44:00 * freakout laughs to self, hides garden shears behind back Sep 02 07:44:08 hahahah Sep 02 07:44:10 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3464898064_f5d55753f5_b.jpg Sep 02 07:44:20 there is all the fire hazard behind my desk Sep 02 07:44:34 LOL @ xbox HD-DVD Sep 02 07:44:43 close out special ftw! Sep 02 07:44:45 poor, poor HD-DVD Sep 02 07:44:50 I got it for like $30 Sep 02 07:44:54 not bad Sep 02 07:44:55 with 5 free hd-dvd's Sep 02 07:45:18 picture and sound quality is the same as blu-ray Sep 02 07:45:27 but now I have a blu-ray burner so haha Sep 02 07:45:33 dual format Sep 02 07:45:42 what editor are you guys useing to build Palm pre apps? Sep 02 07:46:10 dreamweaver Sep 02 07:46:27 i'm still weighing my options, being mostly a novice Sep 02 07:46:42 so far notepad++ has been the easiest Sep 02 07:46:53 http://farm1.static.flickr.com/168/399153177_c1688ccdae_o.jpg Sep 02 07:46:54 and eclipse well it over complicates stuff Sep 02 07:46:58 that is what it looks like fired up Sep 02 07:47:17 rofl water cooling nice Sep 02 07:47:24 * freakout starts IP trace, intends to rob Eguy's house Sep 02 07:47:31 10 degrees load ;) Sep 02 07:47:44 hahah freakout Sep 02 07:47:54 dreamweaver have any plugins for palm sdk? Sep 02 07:48:01 you will be met with my nice M249 auto turret ;) Sep 02 07:48:54 You just keep giving the info away, Eguy. Now I know to send my dog in as a decoy first Sep 02 07:49:04 frakout: http://www.freewebs.com/biohazard_uk/trespassers%20will%20be%20shot.jpg Sep 02 07:49:08 freakout* Sep 02 07:49:08 Or actually, my sister. I like the dog Sep 02 07:49:14 LOL Sep 02 07:49:26 lol @ piv Sep 02 07:49:29 *pic Sep 02 07:49:53 http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1221/1411500834_5287b19d7e.jpg?v=0 Sep 02 07:49:54 LOL!!! Sep 02 07:50:13 that is some hell of a prosecution Sep 02 07:50:15 that's one helluva prosecution Sep 02 07:50:21 echo much? haha Sep 02 07:50:21 hahahah Sep 02 07:50:25 weird Sep 02 07:50:57 Okay. excuse me for a bit. Sep 02 07:51:08 oh, before I go, any Win novacom experts in the room? Sep 02 07:51:18 I asked over in #webos, but no one seem to know. Sep 02 07:51:28 what is teh problem Sep 02 07:51:29 http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2003/SharpEdgeSign.jpg Sep 02 07:51:30 LOL Sep 02 07:51:35 that is one of my favorite pics Sep 02 07:51:39 Even though I can see the Novacom service running in the task manager, the Emulator refuses to see it. Sep 02 07:51:59 * freakout bookmarks Sep 02 07:52:09 * rwhitby wonders why Eguy even bothers keeping #webos-watercooler registered ;-) Sep 02 07:52:17 hahaha Sep 02 07:52:27 * Eguy wonders the same thing Sep 02 07:52:47 so no-one else here has tried accelservice and accelexample? Sep 02 07:52:49 this is obvious but did you restart the service freakout? Sep 02 07:53:02 yep. Sep 02 07:53:13 uninstall and reinstall? Sep 02 07:53:14 About 6,000,000,000 times. Sep 02 07:53:17 Indeed. Sep 02 07:53:22 hmmmm Sep 02 07:53:25 I have the Linux version working properly. Sep 02 07:53:33 But Windows has made this a point of pride now. Sep 02 07:53:40 which version Sep 02 07:53:43 of winblows Sep 02 07:53:44 It is not allowed to win. Sep 02 07:53:49 Win Vista 32 Sep 02 07:54:09 disable your firewall and restart novacom and then the emulator Sep 02 07:54:14 hmmm Sep 02 07:54:21 greg_roll: shall do. Sep 02 07:55:31 good idea greg_roll Sep 02 07:56:33 Fail :( Sep 02 07:56:40 :( Sep 02 07:56:51 Stopped novacomd process via task manager Sep 02 07:57:01 Disabled Win Firewall Sep 02 07:57:20 Restarted novacomd. Sep 02 07:57:24 Restarted emulator. Sep 02 07:57:25 No dice. Sep 02 07:57:46 do you have putty or telnet on your computer? Sep 02 07:57:56 SDK comes with putty, don't it? Sep 02 07:58:08 (yes it does) Sep 02 07:59:22 what am I trying to connect to? Sep 02 08:00:36 * rwhitby bbl Sep 02 08:01:15 ok conntect to 127.0.0.1 port 6968, select TELNET, and select close window to never Sep 02 08:01:21 what output do you get? Sep 02 08:01:30 ehhh no dice Sep 02 08:02:11 50922 d2ec00859e36ab67341ce494dff800b211e64230 tcp emulator Sep 02 08:02:48 ok now try Sep 02 08:02:55 ok conntect to 127.0.0.1 port 50922, select TELNET, and select close window to never Sep 02 08:02:58 what happens? Sep 02 08:04:56 unrecognized command. odd Sep 02 08:05:21 thats right, looks like its working fine Sep 02 08:05:39 whats happening exactly?? Sep 02 08:06:00 I really don't know. So far as I can tell, Vbox, the SDK and Novacom have all installed cleanly. Sep 02 08:06:14 I can clearly see Novacom running in the list of processes. Sep 02 08:06:26 But I continually get the "Novacom not running" error message when I start the emulator. Sep 02 08:07:28 oh ok what OS? Sep 02 08:07:33 Vista32 Sep 02 08:07:36 and is it 32bit or 64bit? Sep 02 08:07:38 cool thanks Sep 02 08:07:58 try going to C:\Program Files\Palm\SDK\bin Sep 02 08:08:16 right click on palm-emulator.bat and select run as administrator Sep 02 08:09:18 no dice. Sep 02 08:09:41 Infuriating. I've tried running novacomd as Admin too. Sep 02 08:13:17 hmmm very odd! Sep 02 08:13:51 Indeed. I was kinda hoping I was just stupid. But it seems it's just out to get me Sep 02 08:14:03 yeah everything seems fine! Sep 02 08:14:14 i must run guys, have a good night Sep 02 08:14:15 is there any way to run patches using an app built into the pre that are not ipk (like the on screen keyboard) Sep 02 08:14:25 none rooted pre that is Sep 02 08:14:26 thanks for trying greg_roll Sep 02 08:14:35 nws :) Sep 02 08:15:45 by none rooted pre i mean not using quilt to apply the patch Sep 02 08:16:41 oh man i feel like a ghost talking ot myself now Sep 02 08:17:17 I'd help if I could, but I ain't your man :P Sep 02 08:18:09 im probably looking for a responce from rwhitby Sep 02 08:18:49 He bbl'd aboot half an hour ago Sep 02 08:19:00 what u think about windows 7? Sep 02 08:19:08 ur using it? Sep 02 08:19:19 it is amazing Sep 02 08:19:28 Why's that? Sep 02 08:19:32 should I use it? Sep 02 08:19:39 it be nice to have a app banage patches Sep 02 08:19:39 or stay with my Vista? Sep 02 08:19:48 it seems the same.. Sep 02 08:19:48 mannage Sep 02 08:20:06 nah Sep 02 08:20:15 It's much better than vista Sep 02 08:20:24 in what ways? Sep 02 08:20:35 its not same as vista dogy... but i myself am stiicking with xp as long as there is still support in programs for it just like i did with win 2k Sep 02 08:21:01 Ok. so what the big different of it? Sep 02 08:21:10 what it's imrpove? Sep 02 08:26:26 speeeeeeeed Sep 02 08:26:33 UI Sep 02 08:28:23 ? Sep 02 08:28:27 that's it? Sep 02 08:29:34 yeah Sep 02 08:29:45 of course not Sep 02 08:30:02 the interface is the same? Sep 02 08:30:02 there are tons of enhancements just go look at the windows website Sep 02 08:30:08 how is everyone tonight Sep 02 08:30:30 Hello Sep 02 08:30:40 Trying irc on the pre Sep 02 08:31:03 Eguy: What Sym button at the virtual Keyboard is doing? Sep 02 08:31:05 Exit Sep 02 08:31:41 anyone had any luck getting kismet working on the pre? Sep 02 08:35:16 kismet? what is it? Sep 02 08:35:38 its a wifi scanning program Sep 02 08:35:48 also a chocolate bar Sep 02 08:35:50 =) Sep 02 08:36:16 google kismet... Sep 02 08:36:41 i've never heard of the candy bar though...are you in the states? Sep 02 08:36:44 kismet rocks Sep 02 08:37:38 its like a crunch bar Sep 02 08:37:48 id love to see a kismet app...maybe a netcat app or aircrack-ng..could port all of those to a really slick gui.. Sep 02 08:37:52 but i ment kismet the unix program rocks Sep 02 08:38:16 they are all unix bassed Sep 02 08:38:24 ya for sure it does...i havent used the new release much..still using an older version Sep 02 08:42:43 is it normal to have 16 established connection on the pre..with no apps running? Sep 02 08:55:50 b Sep 02 08:57:53 Eguy: what the job of the templates? Sep 02 09:08:55 erra Sep 02 09:09:05 any workarounds for invalid certificates over EAS Sep 02 09:21:13 hrmz Sep 02 10:09:56 what is eas? Sep 02 10:18:43 exchange for cellphones Sep 02 10:28:08 Hi folks. just got a pre but I live in a non-cdma world. Can anyone point me in the right direction to get started using it? (I need to skip the 'set up palm profile' bit to begin with). Thanks Sep 02 10:39:03 anybody there? Sep 02 10:39:07 ConfusedVorlon_: I was able to skip the first use by "rooting" the phone and touching a file Sep 02 10:39:17 ConfusedVorlon_: it's definitely a quite time of the morning Sep 02 10:39:29 almost noon in non-cdma world! Sep 02 10:39:34 I think, since the phone is all sprint exclusive, you'll have trouble using it for anything. I don't think it does gsm yet Sep 02 10:40:14 it'd be a fine solution for iTouch like capabilities... seems sad though, no phone calls. :( Sep 02 10:40:31 how did you skip the first use? the instructions for rooting say 'enable dev mode' which I can't do until I skip first use! Sep 02 10:40:40 just want it to test apps until gsm comes out Sep 02 10:40:44 so wifi is fine Sep 02 10:41:01 oh, word. Dunno how you root the phone until you get the non-minimalized LunaSysMgr Sep 02 10:41:04 lemme think. Sep 02 10:41:40 didn't come up with anything, but I do wonder if you've tried to get it in dev mode Sep 02 10:41:55 the konami code really might work on the minimalized lunasysmgr Sep 02 10:42:37 you mean just type it while looking at the first use app? Sep 02 10:43:07 yeah... I'm not hopeful, but it's probably your only shot Sep 02 10:43:08 :( Sep 02 10:43:37 I think it's part of the universal search interface, so I suspect it does not work Sep 02 10:43:44 nothing happening Sep 02 10:43:59 yeah... there are some really knowledgable people here. I'd try back during western business hours Sep 02 10:44:08 thx Sep 02 10:44:15 also check the main site http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Main_Page ... Sep 02 10:44:48 if you can get root shell, it's pretty easy to get the lunasysmgr working Sep 02 10:45:01 there must be some way to do it. >:| Sep 02 10:54:33 ok, I booted into recovery mode. and now palm-launch can at least see the device. typing novaterm runs novaterm - but I don't think I'm actually in the device Sep 02 10:54:49 I can do a command like nduid to get device id, but ls gives nothing Sep 02 11:01:01 ls may give nothing because you're in your homedir Sep 02 11:01:06 try ls -al /etc/passwd Sep 02 11:01:18 the root homedir probably doesn't have any files in it Sep 02 11:03:53 nope - I get a 'command not found' for ls Sep 02 11:04:16 I think I have a site that explains what to do though... Sep 02 11:16:54 command not found is a lot different than nothing. :) Sep 02 11:16:54 anyone tried the ahs demo? Sep 02 11:17:03 how about /bin/ls .? Sep 02 11:39:11 hmm Sep 02 11:39:17 what was the command to refresh launcher? Sep 02 11:40:11 nvm Sep 02 11:44:36 ConfusedVorlon_: did you find the skip activation wiki page? Sep 02 11:45:12 ConfusedVorlon_: (where have I run into you before? nslu2-linux? openmoko?) Sep 02 12:40:45 wow, I suck at wiki Sep 02 13:21:27 gu Sep 02 13:21:33 hi* lol Sep 02 14:36:39 ConfusedVorlon_: there is a howto on the wiki to bypass activation Sep 02 14:36:54 ConfusedVorlon_: it involves modifying the webos dr image Sep 02 14:37:02 and the flashing your pre with the modified image Sep 02 14:37:26 oops Sep 02 14:37:35 screen was scrolled up and i didnt realize Sep 02 14:58:36 ConfusedVorlon_: if you have any problems with those instructions, i may be able to help. I actually did them. Sep 02 15:00:26 wsup people Sep 02 15:02:58 hi atlanta. Sep 02 15:03:10 Decimation: hello there what you u p2 Sep 02 15:03:22 nothingg, playing on the pre, the usual :D Sep 02 15:06:06 lol Sep 02 15:06:07 cool cool Sep 02 15:06:17 im going through code now Sep 02 15:06:33 gonna make a patch so that you have to hold the emergency call button instead of tapping it Sep 02 15:06:39 i called 911 on a mistake Sep 02 15:12:42 v4lyfe2: those instructions are really muddled (one for good ESN, one for bad ESN, skip first use, patch first use, manually fix md5's) Sep 02 15:13:16 v4lyfe2: talking about this page: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Bypassing_Activation Sep 02 15:14:16 atlanta: never happened to me Sep 02 15:14:22 but ive seen the precentral complaints Sep 02 15:14:25 v4lyfe2: you were able to follow them though? Sep 02 15:15:03 also we need a script or tool for patching / rebuilding doctor images Sep 02 15:17:09 Decimation: yea it happen to me last night lol Sep 02 15:17:40 happened to me once Sep 02 15:18:21 lol yea so im just gonna change the tap to a hold Sep 02 15:18:32 and have it added to the tweak list Sep 02 15:20:39 any C experts here Sep 02 15:20:46 im having a unicode/utf-8 issue Sep 02 15:20:58 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Komodo_WebOS_Add-on_Install I know quite a few of you guys use Komodo, mind checking out the new article and seeing if anything was left out (special thanks to FreeTim for writing it). Sep 02 15:24:01 I wouldn't call myself a C expert, but I do code in it every day Sep 02 15:30:28 Templarian: nice nice maybe ill start using Komodo now Sep 02 15:30:38 because eclipse pain in my butt Sep 02 15:31:09 atlanta: all of you should be using Komodo. hehe. brb going to go get ripped off an buy my books for this school year. Sep 02 15:31:37 hi folks: back again. Looking for help on how to bypass activation. I have installed modified webos image and can enable wifi. However I still have to sign up for a profile and that step fails (thought the profile is created on palm's server). Any ideas? Sep 02 15:32:30 have also tried to novaterm. If I connect in usb (recovery) mode, then novaterm seems to find a device. However it doesn't seem to be actually doing anything on the device Sep 02 15:36:10 Templarian: what classes you taking Sep 02 15:38:06 Just Accounting ones and getting a some of my business ones and my last high level General Education cred. Sep 02 15:38:43 And my last econ class. Sep 02 15:39:26 cool cool Sep 02 15:39:26 brb just had to print schedule (I work on campus so time to walk to the other side). Sep 02 15:45:31 anyone have the link to the preload ipk Sep 02 15:45:33 ? Sep 02 15:46:30 I used quilt to install "add-onscreen-keyboard.patch" It looked like it worked, I restarted luna, "quilt applied" show it, but I can't get the keyboard to show :( Sep 02 15:46:42 go into the messaging app Sep 02 15:46:44 Do not use quilt Sep 02 15:46:47 create a new message Sep 02 15:46:53 quilt was the only method that worked Sep 02 15:47:02 swankgd: preware works fine. Sep 02 15:47:04 quilt is not supported Sep 02 15:47:06 using anything else gave me an error in the post-install script Sep 02 15:47:23 you will be on your own with that method with future updates Sep 02 15:47:26 poo... i cant add insurance for the phone, so, hopefully, it will oreo on me and i could get it replaced, lol Sep 02 15:47:39 okay, then I guess I need help debuggin preware Sep 02 15:47:41 if you got an error in the postinst script it is most likely due to not having pristine files Sep 02 15:47:59 I followed the instructions to a T Sep 02 15:48:05 e.g. if you had previously installed via quilt, the preware install will fail until you remove the patch via quilt Sep 02 15:48:07 gkatsev: i can get sprint to get you a new phone if your willing to sit on the phone for an hour or so with them? Sep 02 15:48:13 the error I get is "I did Sep 02 15:48:22 I did remove the patch before tyring freeware Sep 02 15:48:25 preware rather Sep 02 15:48:34 :/ Sep 02 15:48:49 swankgd, did removing the patch give any errors? Sep 02 15:48:52 nope Sep 02 15:48:53 is it still in your quilt series? Sep 02 15:49:01 nope Sep 02 15:49:18 if you do a quilt pop -f on the patch and then quilt delete it, could you run an md5sum on the following file: Sep 02 15:49:32 the error I get in teh post script is that /var/usr/bin/patch doen't exist Sep 02 15:49:39 "/usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitFramework191_15.js Sep 02 15:49:45 ohhh ok Sep 02 15:49:48 nevermind my previous comment Sep 02 15:50:05 k Sep 02 15:50:08 what version of preware are you using? Sep 02 15:50:41 whatever's linked at WebOS internals Sep 02 15:50:43 "/var/usr/bin/patch is the "GNU patch binary" which is a dependency of the virtual keyboard package, and should get installed automatically when using preware to install keyboard Sep 02 15:51:56 hmmm Sep 02 15:52:00 Hi folks; wondering if I'm missing something on connecting to the device. Is it enough to go into recovery mode and just type novaterm, or do I need to activate developer mode? Sep 02 15:52:27 swankgd, what version of preware Sep 02 15:52:55 I'll have to 0.8.0 Sep 02 15:53:21 (damnit, I have to stop half-typing responses before answering your questions) Sep 02 15:53:28 v0.8.0 Sep 02 15:54:29 are you comfortable with linux command line? Sep 02 15:54:47 after removing the quilt patch and deleting it from the series could you tell me the output of the following command (run as root): Sep 02 15:54:52 yup Sep 02 15:55:00 md5sum /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitFramework191_15.js Sep 02 15:55:38 0e5cbf40b9d2f9856600169cc690200e Sep 02 15:56:09 good Sep 02 15:56:38 run 'ls -l /var/usr/bin/patch' Sep 02 15:56:59 nothing Sep 02 15:56:59 Does preware show either the "GNU patch binary" or "virtual keyboard" as installed? Sep 02 15:57:09 nope Sep 02 15:57:22 wait, lemme check the gnu patch binary Sep 02 15:57:52 yeah, gnu patch is there, keyboard not Sep 02 15:58:34 btw, side note, when I'm logged into putty over EV, it's continually spitting out powerd wakeup and sleep messages Sep 02 15:58:40 annoying Sep 02 15:59:10 yea that is normal (powerd daemon) Sep 02 15:59:16 ok so uninstall the gnu patch binary Sep 02 15:59:24 and then try to install the virtual keyboard Sep 02 16:00:12 preware says I gotta use Quick Install to remove Sep 02 16:00:31 really? it doesnt let you remove it Sep 02 16:01:06 nope, says it doesn't support removing plugins, have to use Quick Install Sep 02 16:01:41 just do 'ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.patch Sep 02 16:02:19 it probably shouldn't be listed as service/plugin, it's not that special just literally the GNU patch binary Sep 02 16:04:39 so after removing, should I just go straight to installing virtual keyboard? Preware will recognize the dependency and install the patch library automatically? Sep 02 16:05:25 ooooh, looks like it's working, phone rebooting now Sep 02 16:05:38 yea should Sep 02 16:05:39 :D Sep 02 16:05:48 luna rebooting not phone Sep 02 16:05:56 restarting* Sep 02 16:05:59 so it looks like some bit of virtual keyboard was hanging around, had to do an ipkg remove to remove patch tools Sep 02 16:06:15 patch library Sep 02 16:06:47 it works! *happy dance* Sep 02 16:06:48 Not sure why it failed in the first place, but apparently the gnupatch binary can't be uninstalled with preware 0.8 Sep 02 16:07:05 :) Sep 02 16:07:21 actually, get the feeling it was the still seeing a virtual keyboard ependency and that was the plugin it was talking about Sep 02 16:07:50 when I did the ipkg remove on path library, it gave me the dependency error Sep 02 16:07:57 really Sep 02 16:08:07 interesting Sep 02 16:08:27 but ipkg remove of the virtual keyboard worked. Sep 02 16:08:48 so preware was not showing keyboard as installed even though ipkg thought it was Sep 02 16:08:54 yup Sep 02 16:09:07 Anyway you can track back all of your steps? Sep 02 16:09:15 oy Sep 02 16:09:47 I just wonder where we went wrong initially Sep 02 16:10:18 We'll want to iron out these issues before the next keyboard release Sep 02 16:10:53 broad strokes - tried command line/quilt method of installing keyboard. Installed WebOS Quickinstall Sep 02 16:11:12 tried to install keyboard with quickinstall via commandline Sep 02 16:11:19 tried to install keyboard via webos GUI Sep 02 16:11:23 installed PreWare Sep 02 16:11:54 at that point I think PreWare thought the keyboard was installed, so I did a "remove" in PreWare (appeared to work) then tried to install, failed Sep 02 16:12:35 then just kinda looped back and forth between installing and uinstalling in preware, and using quilt, and using ipkg command line Sep 02 16:13:03 I might have some of those steps out of order, did most of this at 1AM Sep 02 16:14:16 that's cool, I think the issues were as follows. None of the ipkg methods would work after the quilt method, since the ipkg postinst verifies md5sum of stock 1.1.0 files before applying patch. Since the quilt method modified them, the ipkg postinst check failed. Secondly I don't think quickinstall handles dependencies correctly yet, so that may be why the patch binary got mucked up Sep 02 16:15:00 cool Sep 02 16:15:36 btw, how do I make the keyboard go away? Sep 02 16:15:43 tap gesture area once Sep 02 16:15:44 (not uninstall, just get it off the screen) Sep 02 16:17:59 thanks so much for the help! Sep 02 16:18:39 anytime, let me know if you have any other issues Sep 02 16:18:52 will do Sep 02 16:19:36 BIZZARE. Sep 02 16:19:37 ahem. Sep 02 16:19:38 sorry. Sep 02 16:19:49 Had to get that out there. Sep 02 16:19:58 Wow this guy does NOT like the pre... http://www.stopgeek.com/onscreen-keyboard-for-palm-pre.html Sep 02 16:20:07 But I've just had a curious experience. Sep 02 16:20:40 what's up? Sep 02 16:20:42 Despite the novacom not running error message, webOS Quick Install can send apps to my Windows emulator just fine. Sep 02 16:21:02 Bloody thing's been driving me up the wall all freaking day trying to fix it Sep 02 16:21:09 I never thought to just try it and see what happens. Sep 02 16:21:26 The error message lied to me. Sep 02 16:21:32 I feel so... betrayed. Sep 02 16:21:39 hehehehehe Sep 02 16:21:41 (Sorry if that's an anticlimax to my outburst) Sep 02 16:22:28 * freakout returns webos-internals to its regularly scheduled programming Sep 02 16:23:07 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/JetsSelfInflictedWipeCrash Sep 02 16:24:07 Winner, Most Obtuse Wiki Entry 2009 Sep 02 16:24:49 it's a crash log related to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pager_Nagger Sep 02 16:26:29 * freakout awards himself his own trophy: Winner, Misunderstanding Tech Stuff 2009 Sep 02 16:27:00 ....which works equally well for my novacom troubles. Sep 02 16:27:14 Okay, 2.26am, time to power down this infernal machine. Sep 02 17:04:20 Hey Guys, long time no chat Sep 02 17:04:42 quick request, does anyone have the originial un-patched file that the keyboard is applied to? Sep 02 17:04:54 i cannot apply the VKB patch Sep 02 17:09:13 helloooo everyone. Sep 02 17:13:05 hi folks, is there a way I can ssh into my pre with root access (so I can upload files with my ssh gui app) Sep 02 17:13:34 BeingBoston, have you previously applied with quilt? Sep 02 17:13:46 oh he left, nm Sep 02 17:23:24 ok, now trying to edit a file with vi - but it doesn't seem to save. Any ideas? have tried sudo vi ... Sep 02 17:23:33 may have to mount rw Sep 02 17:23:40 how do I do that? Sep 02 17:23:46 mount -o remount,rw / Sep 02 17:23:50 change the file Sep 02 17:24:05 mount -o remount,ro / Sep 02 17:24:06 and reboot Sep 02 17:24:09 (i think) Sep 02 17:25:39 doesn't seem to change anything Sep 02 17:28:19 what was the command line tool to get/put files to the device? Sep 02 17:31:55 villo.me Sep 02 17:43:29 What's up peeps Sep 02 17:45:54 first C service right here => http://omploader.org/vMjlwcg Sep 02 17:45:56 :D Sep 02 17:46:02 I have away for a while. Preware is actually out :) Sep 02 17:46:04 BatteryAdapter 0.0.1 Sep 02 17:46:08 for armv7 Sep 02 17:46:09 :D Sep 02 17:46:15 Sup Puff Sep 02 17:46:46 thatdude: see above, thats whats up :D Sep 02 17:47:12 What is it Sep 02 17:48:19 A service to get various information about the state of the battery. Sep 02 17:48:24 Hmmm Sep 02 17:50:02 C service! woohoo Sep 02 17:50:27 good job Puff, can't wait to take a look Sep 02 17:54:07 now to take care of the rest of the little bits on the website Sep 02 17:54:41 http://preyourmind.org/project/batteryadapter Sep 02 17:55:18 * thatdude is lost. Sep 02 17:55:47 thatdude: lost about what? Sep 02 17:55:48 * thatdude will come back once he deals with the dragon. Sep 02 17:56:53 PuffTheMagic: Trying to understand the purpose of getting information from the battery. Sep 02 17:57:09 thatdude: there might not be any purpose Sep 02 17:57:19 this was a POC demo app Sep 02 17:57:29 but someone could make an uber-battery/charge monitor Sep 02 17:57:35 if they wanted Sep 02 17:59:02 but i didnt realize ipkg info shows the control file from the ipk Sep 02 17:59:07 instead of the info in the feed Sep 02 17:59:34 which is really lame Sep 02 18:02:30 PuffTheMagic: Are you still thinking about doing an IRC service of some kind? Sep 02 18:02:38 yup Sep 02 18:02:47 now that i can make C services Sep 02 18:02:52 PuffTheMagic: which method are you using to obtain the battery info? Sep 02 18:03:01 i used libsysfs Sep 02 18:03:23 to read from /sys/bus/w1/devices/32-00084051ca73 Sep 02 18:03:34 oh good, you're not still grepping logs Sep 02 18:03:43 lol hell no Sep 02 18:04:08 chrisa: you think i would waste time making a service in C to wrap around shell commands? Sep 02 18:04:50 Considering some of the other things I've seen people do so far, yes Sep 02 18:05:06 I'm a bit shocked people didn't think to check sysfs for battery information for months Sep 02 18:07:25 chrisa: palm provdides batter info over dbus already Sep 02 18:07:32 but u need to subscribe to get the info Sep 02 18:07:40 you cant just ask for 1 little thing and get an answer Sep 02 18:07:47 and i dont know if they export all the info I do Sep 02 18:08:10 Not true, there is a lot more via sysfs than the batterystatusquery returns Sep 02 18:08:24 not true what? Sep 02 18:08:33 Better info over dbus Sep 02 18:08:44 Luna simply only needs to care about so much of the gas gauge's information Sep 02 18:08:53 wait a sec Sep 02 18:08:59 you sound liek you are contridicting your self Sep 02 18:09:01 i said i DONT think the palm services exports ALL the info Sep 02 18:09:14 compared to what i am exporting form sysfs Sep 02 18:09:22 so are you agreeing with that? Sep 02 18:09:34 I'm not even talking about your service at all Sep 02 18:09:41 I'm comparing the dbus response vs the sysfs information Sep 02 18:09:50 right Sep 02 18:10:01 well my service provides everything in sysfs over dbus Sep 02 18:12:23 I'd be wary of using dbus for an irc transport layer Sep 02 18:12:51 ummm why Sep 02 18:13:04 its not much difference from how messaging is currently working Sep 02 18:13:20 libpurple-adapter uses dbus Sep 02 18:13:57 There's a difference between how IM clients interact and how much volume you can flood on the bus with a couple irc channels and server status Sep 02 18:14:12 I'm sure it would work, but you could have some pretty adverse effects too :) Sep 02 18:15:30 well i dont exactly want to create a new IPC Sep 02 18:16:05 and i dont want to use a plugin either Sep 02 18:22:06 i am not very experienced with it, but i would hope that dbus could take an extremely large volume of requests Sep 02 18:22:33 it seems like a such a core component that I would expect that to be part of its job Sep 02 18:34:58 well Quassel uses dbus Sep 02 18:35:11 so i would imagine dbus can handle it Sep 02 18:38:40 Huh, I hadn't heard of quassel before. that looks pretty cool Sep 02 18:40:11 Puff is the source for your battery adapter available? Sep 02 18:54:36 JS people i need u in #webos :D Sep 02 18:57:11 what for? Sep 02 18:59:32 Puff: is the .C file available as well (for the battery-service)? Sep 02 19:05:23 Zuchmir2: yeah http://git.preyourmind.org/?p=us.ryanhope.batteryadapter;a=summary Sep 02 19:07:20 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1864891 I know you guys are all busy, but if you have time thank this thread or post a comment. I don't really have any cred on Precentral hehe. Sep 02 19:09:07 thanks, got it, where is the "lunaservice.h"? is that in the SDK? Sep 02 19:09:52 ok, i see it now Sep 02 19:12:19 Zuchmir2: no its in my source, its a half/assed attempt Sep 02 19:12:46 Zuchmir2: everything in lunaservice.h was needed to get that very basic service working Sep 02 19:13:05 im sure i will be adding more into it down the road Sep 02 19:13:19 Zuchmir2: i will probably make a separate repo just for that file Sep 02 19:13:23 for people to pull from Sep 02 19:16:01 ok, don't fully understand the code, have to read more about dbus and how it works Sep 02 19:16:20 Zuchmir2: what part of it dont you understand Sep 02 19:16:45 Zuchmir2: do you understand the java service code? Sep 02 19:17:01 so think it would be possible to make a service to allow mojo to inject hard keyboard events deep into luna, so that other plugins receive the event (e.g. browsweradapter) Sep 02 19:17:26 all LS*() calls, what they do Sep 02 19:17:57 ... and the magic numbers such as "w1", "32-00084051ca73" Sep 02 19:18:03 Zuchmir2: that is black box shit, i can only guess what they do based on the name of the function Sep 02 19:18:15 Zuchmir2: like LSFreeError Sep 02 19:18:18 that is pretty obvious Sep 02 19:18:27 it frees the LSError struct Sep 02 19:18:42 ... also, int len = strlen(attr->value);, and yet you use (len - 1) all over Sep 02 19:18:42 the w1 and 32-0000.... shit is from sysfs Sep 02 19:19:10 the w1 stuff has nothing to do with dbus or lunaservices in general Sep 02 19:19:18 its just how i was getting info to return over dbus Sep 02 19:19:25 nad the len-1 shit Sep 02 19:19:34 was to remove a trailing newline Sep 02 19:20:00 again all that stuff really has nothing to do with dbus or lunaservices Sep 02 19:20:05 the part that matters is Sep 02 19:20:10 this app sits in the background, or gets launched upon every request from JS Sep 02 19:20:29 Zuchmir2: its in the background not wasting any cpu really Sep 02 19:20:33 Zuchmir2: LSMessageReply() Sep 02 19:20:37 oh, ok so the response is with '\n' Sep 02 19:20:52 LSMessageReply is what sends a message over dbus Sep 02 19:21:22 one of the params for that is a string in json format Sep 02 19:21:29 thats where you put the data Sep 02 19:21:44 if you are sending a message Sep 02 19:22:02 if you are reciving a message there is a json string you can read Sep 02 19:22:27 Zuchmir2: i was reading data from files in /sys and then sending the result over dbus Sep 02 19:22:35 :Templarian JSLint seems to crash my Komodo every time on the latest alpha Sep 02 19:22:48 so the \n thing (which i didnt want) came from the /sys file Sep 02 19:24:32 ok, now i see what it's doing, never used libsysfs.h Sep 02 19:26:25 flpalm: hmm... nothings really changed in the alpha. Did you recently paste code I'm told illegal characters cause this. Sep 02 19:26:43 nope, it is weird as it used to run Sep 02 19:26:44 Zuchmir2: it was my first time using libsysfs too Sep 02 19:26:57 mlapalm Sep 02 19:27:12 Templarian: I had some other addons that I uninstalled in case it was them, but no go Sep 02 19:27:42 ok, looking at: id shows garbage, maybe that should be translated to HEX Sep 02 19:27:53 flpalm: mind if I pm you? Sep 02 19:28:08 Templarian: not a problem Sep 02 19:28:29 Zuchmir2: lol Sep 02 19:28:47 Zuchmir2: u had to pick the one field that returns unicode characters Sep 02 19:29:01 Zuchmir2: my conversion to utf8 isnt perfect Sep 02 19:29:09 i am assuming the initial codepage Sep 02 19:29:13 loking through all files to see what they have of interest :-) Sep 02 19:29:18 i need to use getenv to try and get the correct ones Sep 02 19:29:28 Zuchmir2: the rest of them should return usefull stuff Sep 02 19:29:43 Zuchmir2: u using luna-send or looking in /sys directly? Sep 02 19:29:45 why not just return a hex string Sep 02 19:29:57 looking in /sys Sep 02 19:30:21 Zuchmir2: i wanted 1 function to process everything Sep 02 19:30:30 i shouldnt need to encode each file differently Sep 02 19:30:52 you werent using luna-send anyway Sep 02 19:31:03 but my output should match Sep 02 19:31:10 for the most part Sep 02 19:31:11 correct, i ws pointing out potential prob Sep 02 19:31:11 for id Sep 02 19:31:22 i just need to get the right initial code page Sep 02 19:31:27 before i convert to utf8 Sep 02 19:31:40 g_convert(value,len-1,"UTF-8","ISO-8859-1",NULL,NULL,NULL) Sep 02 19:31:49 right now i assume ISO-8859-1 Sep 02 19:31:52 is the ID unicode? Sep 02 19:32:10 yeah its got some unicode characters in there Sep 02 19:32:11 or is it binary digits Sep 02 19:32:36 its unicode Sep 02 19:34:17 castle / # cat /sys/bus/w1/devices/32-00084051ca73/id Sep 02 19:34:17 2sÊQ castle / # castle / # luna-send -n -1 palm://us.ryanhope.batteryadapter/id {} Sep 02 19:34:17 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"id":"2s?Q@"} Sep 02 19:34:31 What's the Gstring stuff? Sep 02 19:34:36 mine has 8 bytes, and no terminating '\n' Sep 02 19:35:18 strace says: open("id", O_RDONLY) = 3; read(3, "2\353\364K@\10\0005", 4096) = 8 Sep 02 19:35:46 Zuchmir2: not sure what you are telling me Sep 02 19:35:49 im not a C expert Sep 02 19:35:54 just dabble here and there Sep 02 19:36:12 that looks to me like an 8 byte hex code Sep 02 19:36:38 Zuchmir2: i want the same output as if i cat the file Sep 02 19:36:43 i dont want to convert anything Sep 02 19:36:58 egaudet_work: its a string ;) Sep 02 19:37:19 that was the (partial) output from: strace cat id > /dev/null Sep 02 19:37:21 egaudet_work: since C dont reallyhave strings Sep 02 19:37:51 Zuchmir2: i want the output to look like it does in a terminal not going though strace Sep 02 19:38:10 why not just use a char buffer Sep 02 19:38:12 sscanf Sep 02 19:38:13 sprintf Sep 02 19:38:17 egaudet_work: glib has some functions to work with gstrings sorta like the methods you would find in OO languages Sep 02 19:38:18 all this g_string stuff Sep 02 19:38:34 egaudet_work: cause its easier to use gstring? Sep 02 19:38:48 i understand, but what i'm saying is, that the id is not normal text, it should be treated as special binary Sep 02 19:38:50 egaudet_work: cause i was using libpurpleadapter as an example? Sep 02 19:38:59 just curious Sep 02 19:39:21 egaudet_work: convienence factor Sep 02 19:39:33 ... also, since this is 8 bytes (w/o LF), you r loosing the last byte Sep 02 19:39:40 i would have done something like sprintf(buf, "{%s:%d}", ...) Sep 02 19:39:50 ... with your (len - 1) stuff Sep 02 19:40:05 Zuchmir2: i can change it to look for \n instead Sep 02 19:40:09 i was just lazy Sep 02 19:40:16 So i was wondering what the g_string stuff would give/save over that Sep 02 19:40:37 egaudet_work: not having to do all the allocation stuff Sep 02 19:41:16 simple maxlen array or malloc isn't much stuff though Sep 02 19:41:16 egaudet_work: its C, there are 1000 ways to do everything Sep 02 19:41:21 i know i know Sep 02 19:41:46 egaudet_work: considering the pre dont have much mem i wanted to avoid using MAXLEN stuff Sep 02 19:41:58 id have to image the glib methods are fairly efficient Sep 02 19:42:04 imagine Sep 02 19:42:08 but idk for sure Sep 02 19:42:14 whats the max app's you can install on the pre? cant find on wiki Sep 02 19:42:24 well they can't be doing much aside from realloc's right Sep 02 19:42:28 like i said, im not expert, i look at examples and build upon them and learn as i go Sep 02 19:42:41 but I guess that's good if they manage the allocation like that, does make it more convenient Sep 02 19:43:07 egaudet_work: lunaservice links against glib Sep 02 19:43:11 so its already loaded Sep 02 19:43:14 i figured why not use it Sep 02 19:43:52 and it is a 0.0.1 release :D Sep 02 19:43:53 anyone know the app limit? is it 62? Sep 02 19:44:12 JamesBaud: i beleive is number of (apps per page * number of pages) Sep 02 19:44:13 It's an awesome 0.0.1 release Sep 02 19:44:17 which i think is 20 * 3 Sep 02 19:44:30 i have 5 pages Sep 02 19:44:45 then you can have 100 apps probably Sep 02 19:44:49 but when i try to install another app says "not eough room", i got 3 gigs free Sep 02 19:45:07 the beginnings of C luna services :D. Hopefully eventually I can find a way to simulate a hard keyboard event Sep 02 19:45:40 you've used 4 gigs! Sep 02 19:45:58 music Sep 02 19:46:08 JamesBaud: installing an app from palm catalog? Sep 02 19:46:13 JamesBaud: or with Preware> Sep 02 19:46:14 ? Sep 02 19:46:19 but that partition isnt used for apps anyway Sep 02 19:46:41 egaudet_work: i have an idea Sep 02 19:46:42 for u Sep 02 19:46:47 idk if it can be done Sep 02 19:46:57 preware Sep 02 19:46:59 well, filecoaster Sep 02 19:47:09 filecoaster != preware Sep 02 19:47:19 filecoaster !== preware Sep 02 19:47:22 preware does not have issues that filecoaster does Sep 02 19:47:37 i checked the forums, it looks like other ppl running into same issue, i think there is a limit Sep 02 19:47:52 egaudet_work: on 1-10 what is your linux knowledge/experience Sep 02 19:47:57 JamesBaud: use preware Sep 02 19:48:01 and i bet it will get installed Sep 02 19:48:07 let me try Sep 02 19:48:17 I'd say somewhere between 7-8 Sep 02 19:48:26 but my learning ability is 10+ Sep 02 19:48:34 so you are familar with out /dev/input/mice is a composite of all input devices right? Sep 02 19:49:22 I have a general idea Sep 02 19:49:27 ok well it is Sep 02 19:49:30 anyway Sep 02 19:49:32 oh shit, Preware worked perfect!, thanks PuffTheMagic Sep 02 19:49:38 JamesBaud: np Sep 02 19:49:52 preware ftw Sep 02 19:50:00 lol Sep 02 19:50:18 egaudet_work: so maybe you can rename the /dev/input/event# file for the keyboard to something ele Sep 02 19:50:19 else Sep 02 19:50:23 then make a new device Sep 02 19:50:30 with the name of the old keyboard event file Sep 02 19:50:33 which is a composite Sep 02 19:50:39 so it would include real keyboard commands Sep 02 19:50:50 and the ones you inject with a service Sep 02 19:51:23 oil: we need to talk Sep 02 19:51:37 oil: see pm Sep 02 19:51:51 * oil feels like hes being called to the principals office Sep 02 19:52:09 PuffTheMagic: are you breaking up with him? after all he's done for you? Sep 02 19:52:21 Puff: is this in a feed? Sep 02 19:52:32 Zuchmir2: not yet, working on that Sep 02 19:53:07 Hmmm, so take the existing code right out of the kernel for the keyboard events and add in service hook to inject "fake" ones... Sep 02 19:53:14 didn't try it yet, but in my /sys/ it's NOT 32-00084051ca73 it's some other number Sep 02 19:54:13 really Sep 02 19:54:15 hmm Sep 02 19:54:18 not good Sep 02 19:54:33 egaudet_work: maybe that would work too Sep 02 19:54:53 egaudet_work: you could add a sysfs or debugfs interface to it Sep 02 19:54:58 to inject shit maybe Sep 02 19:55:17 Zuchmir2: what number is it Sep 02 19:55:21 i'm guessing you will need to look for /sys/bus/w1/devices/32-*/ Sep 02 19:55:28 0008404bf4eb Sep 02 19:55:28 yeah probably Sep 02 19:55:42 thanks for the info on that Sep 02 19:56:35 Puff, so above are you saying that I could write a device that would keep the existing /dev/input/event# functionality and add to it Sep 02 19:58:00 yeah most likely Sep 02 19:58:02 however Sep 02 19:58:15 the input devices are built into the kernel Sep 02 19:58:20 not as a module Sep 02 19:58:26 so you would need to build a whole new kernel for that Sep 02 19:58:38 but if you rename the device Sep 02 19:58:44 you could make a composite device Sep 02 19:58:48 as a standalone module Sep 02 19:59:25 going to read about composite device Sep 02 20:00:36 well thats just what i call it Sep 02 20:00:54 actually Sep 02 20:00:59 you might be able to make a module Sep 02 20:01:05 that extends the existing input device Sep 02 20:01:16 and provide the sysfs or debugfs interface Sep 02 20:01:27 debugfs is easier Sep 02 20:01:36 but needs to be enabled in kernel if its not by default Sep 02 20:01:42 which means rebuild of kernel is neeeded Sep 02 20:01:46 but sysfs is already in Sep 02 20:01:49 so you could use that Sep 02 20:03:28 egaudet_work: on a side note, cant you strip the function or 2 that you need from palms code to make the oskb under "Fair use" and create your own standalone package that dont require patches? Sep 02 20:05:31 Well I suppose I could find and strip the couple I need from the browser adapter, but I don't know how much goes into the SmartTextEngine Sep 02 20:06:41 But I still need a way to get those into teh browser plugin no? Sep 02 20:11:41 Puff: maybe cd /sys/bus/w1/devices/32-*/ before the app launches, and just use a function like: http://pastebin.com/d4784332b to read the entire file into ram Sep 02 20:19:04 what about uinput Sep 02 20:21:16 I could build uinput as a module, and use that to send keyboard events to the kernel no? Sep 02 20:24:46 The battery sysfs directory name is going to be different from battery to battery Sep 02 20:25:31 i scrolled up to read the log while i was gone, and the first thing i saw was "preware ftw" Sep 02 20:25:38 my day is good already. Sep 02 20:26:23 Hey all, my old windows mobile phone has finally died so I'm going to nab myself a Pre soon. I see once you get into the linux system you can easily run bash, irssi, finch (was surprised actually at libpurple being in there), rtorrent, snownews, and the only app I'm heavily focused on for command line usage for its simplicity and flexibility is mplayer, anyone know if anyone is working for packaging mplayer? I'd love to help if I could in any way if tha Sep 02 20:26:51 erm, why would you want mplayer on it? Sep 02 20:27:02 I suppose you could build it in a chroot and then have it run off DirectFB Sep 02 20:27:04 to easily handle basically any media format? Sep 02 20:27:07 punzada: you could run vlc, since its on optware Sep 02 20:27:19 ah, wasn't aware vlc was packaged, nifty. Sep 02 20:27:26 I was shocked at the list of fantastic software on the list :P Sep 02 20:27:37 But to use mplayer you would basically need to kill the UI, term in and then run the video by hand Sep 02 20:27:44 That doesn't make much sense for a mobile device Sep 02 20:27:55 hmm, fair enough. Sep 02 20:44:02 punzada: we're working a universal adapter of sorts to make it very easy to port directfb apps to run under luna Sep 02 20:44:17 so eventually we'll get to having all these GUI apps without killing the UI Sep 02 20:45:22 not going with browser plugins to keep use of cards? Sep 02 20:45:41 nifty. Sep 02 20:55:21 i assume they would use the plugin to expose the graphics array to whatever program wants to write into it .. so keep the cards, but make it all transparent Sep 02 20:58:36 that will be pretty cool. Can't wait for stuff like fceu. Sep 02 21:11:29 destinal: why not use directfb though luna/cards? Sep 02 21:11:35 has anyone considered implementing some form of gnash with the webkit browser or is bascially everyone waiting on palm to include flash functionality from adobe? Sep 02 21:12:09 punzada: i mentioned that once Sep 02 21:12:23 didnt do anything with it Sep 02 21:12:28 not high on my priority list Sep 02 21:12:32 indeed Sep 02 21:12:35 i sorta hate flash and flash pages Sep 02 21:12:47 agreed, it's sadly a necessary evil for many pages these days though. Sep 02 21:13:02 if a site only uses flash i just wont use it Sep 02 21:13:04 their loss Sep 02 21:13:14 usually its a car dealership or something Sep 02 21:13:20 esp since html5 didn't rectify any type of common ground Sep 02 21:13:23 with the video tag Sep 02 21:13:48 I basically just want to be able to get to youtube/google video eventually, most flash I could care less about. Sep 02 21:14:40 and ... apparently there is a youtube app Sep 02 21:14:44 I'm dumb Sep 02 21:15:08 also m.youtube.com works Sep 02 21:15:29 wow that basically seals it, pre it is. Sep 02 21:16:01 punzada: and palm and adobe said flash is coming. rumors say in october Sep 02 21:17:58 yeah saw those on the few forums I've been browsing, will be nice to see that come to pass. Sep 02 21:20:41 It will just be nice to longer have a win mobile phone. lol. Sep 02 21:20:45 gnash or one ofthe other oss flash plugins "should" work Sep 02 21:20:53 i should try and build one Sep 02 21:21:07 PuffTheMagic: Go right ahead. Sep 02 21:21:17 # emerge-armv7a-softfloat-linux-gnueabi gnash -p Sep 02 21:21:19 :D Sep 02 21:21:36 might not work on arm htough Sep 02 21:23:14 ewww depends on kde3 Sep 02 21:23:16 fuck that Sep 02 21:24:49 why does it take my phone 5 minutes and 30 seconds to boot Sep 02 21:24:56 what could I have done? lol Sep 02 21:25:02 gnash depends on kde3? ouch. Sep 02 21:27:54 should i doctor it guys? Sep 02 21:28:17 Yea if there is no other solution to the problem Sep 02 21:28:27 Don't know enough about it, but a 5 min+ boot is certainly an issue. >> Sep 02 21:29:25 why are you even restarting your phone? Sep 02 21:29:28 time to make a list of all the apps i have installed :D Sep 02 21:29:35 gkatsev: i restarted to test the boot time :D Sep 02 21:29:40 ah, lol Sep 02 21:30:00 would be cool if we could save installed apps to OPML or something from preware Sep 02 21:30:10 my current phone doesn't even boot Sep 02 21:30:11 im about to call sprint customer service to complain about service in my house Sep 02 21:30:11 >> Sep 02 21:30:15 see if they can change anything Sep 02 21:30:24 but i don't want it to take 5 minutes if they want me to restart my phone. Sep 02 21:30:40 Decimation_: they should be able to give you the airrave or whatever its called Sep 02 21:31:24 lets hope Sep 02 21:31:28 im gonna doctor my phone Sep 02 21:33:21 in soviet russia, phone doctors you Sep 02 21:34:41 One thing I'm excited about with the pre is a having a standard 3.5mm headphone jack again, my current phone has these annoying proprietary miniusb headphones Sep 02 21:34:51 it's the little things that count :P Sep 02 21:42:17 wth Sep 02 21:42:20 i was doctoring Sep 02 21:42:26 and it was at the battery charging thing Sep 02 21:42:32 then it hung at 0% for 5 minutes Sep 02 21:42:38 then it said the phone disconnected Sep 02 21:42:43 but nothing disconnected? Sep 02 21:44:52 you guys told me to do something before Sep 02 21:44:55 like, hold the volume key Sep 02 21:44:57 or something.. Sep 02 21:45:03 anyone know what im talking about Sep 02 21:45:09 Yes Sep 02 21:45:16 thatdude: what do i do? Sep 02 21:45:29 Heh we had this conversation before Sep 02 21:45:59 lol, was it us? Sep 02 21:46:21 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover Sep 02 21:47:04 Just power off the Pre. Hold the volume up button and power up your pre. Sep 02 21:47:23 Then press next and continue with the recovery. Sep 02 21:48:33 thank you Sep 02 21:50:47 off to home Sep 02 21:53:49 nice, doctoring Sep 02 21:53:50 finally. Sep 02 22:18:19 punzada: did you look in optware for mplayer? Sep 02 22:18:50 I did. Sep 02 22:19:24 oh, it's not there? Sep 02 22:20:03 correct, not there Sep 02 22:22:06 I guess that makes sense, even though optware was ported to openmoko, it already had mplayer so I guess no-one bothered to put it in optware. Sep 02 22:24:01 yeah probably Sep 02 22:24:13 would be a nice down the line addition to the pre I would imagine though Sep 02 22:24:23 mplayer is just nice all over ;p Sep 02 22:24:47 punzada: is there a codec that you need that the pre media player dont support? Sep 02 22:25:01 im not understanding how mplayer would be useful Sep 02 22:25:14 well I don't have my pre yet I'm just a giant mplayer fanboy Sep 02 22:25:22 so I wouldn't know at this point ;p Sep 02 22:27:27 punzada: i like mplayer too, and im a pure linux user, no windows here for 10 years, but unless you are gonna ditch Luna and run your own UI just about every standalone app is gonna be useless on the Pre Sep 02 22:28:22 punzada: were you the one that came in here a few weeks ago with some directfb/plugin code for destinal? Sep 02 22:30:51 naw, first time in here today Sep 02 22:32:02 I just figured maybe a luna-based front end to mplayer would be possible was my only thinking, i'm not sure of the logistics well enough of the pre yet to make those assumptions thats why i asked Sep 02 22:32:26 I intend to play and hack the hell out of the thing but a seperate UI isn't in my scheme of things or plans Sep 02 22:34:01 can someone do me a favour? I'm having DNS problems with my ISP. What's the IP addresses of the opendns nameservers? Sep 02 22:34:38 Our nameservers are 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220. Sep 02 22:35:36 hmm - seems there's something *really* weird going on. I can access IRC, but can't even ping those addresses from my openwrt router. Sep 02 22:36:13 time to reboot the cable modem before calling the ISP ... Sep 02 22:41:55 punzada: the problem with a mplayer front end is that mplayer would have to be wrapped in a browser plugin Sep 02 22:42:33 ah, I see. Sep 02 22:42:40 punzada: and since mplayer is a binary and not a lib Sep 02 22:42:45 that is basically impossible Sep 02 22:42:49 but Sep 02 22:42:58 the palm media player uses ffmpeg Sep 02 22:43:03 i am pretty sure Sep 02 22:43:07 oh nice Sep 02 22:43:09 that i did not know Sep 02 22:43:10 which is all that mattters :D Sep 02 22:43:13 <3 ffmpeg as well Sep 02 22:43:24 but it dont support all codecs Sep 02 22:43:38 probably only the codecs that can be hw decoded Sep 02 22:43:44 idk Sep 02 22:43:49 i havent tried many moviews yet Sep 02 22:44:18 punzada: http://opensource.palm.com/1.1.0/index.html Sep 02 22:44:25 that is a link to the opensoruce stuff palm uses Sep 02 22:44:35 i am pretty sure ffmpeg/gstreamer isused for media Sep 02 22:44:55 yup, gstreamer def is Sep 02 22:45:08 and ffmpeg is mostly for conversion as far as i'm aware, but I guess it could be piped into other tools Sep 02 22:45:26 naa ffmpeg is for decoding too Sep 02 22:45:30 not just conversion Sep 02 22:45:45 ffmpeg is the heart of mplayer Sep 02 22:46:09 you know what would be cool though Sep 02 22:46:17 a uPNP video client Sep 02 22:46:25 to play streaming video :D Sep 02 22:46:55 lol, dammit, no free airave. Sep 02 22:47:40 i also wonder if i can use the camera on the pre and opencv to make an iris scanner :D Sep 02 22:48:00 use that for the lock instead of the keypad Sep 02 22:48:23 or some face recognition Sep 02 22:59:04 is there any file on the pre that shows where the apps are on the launcher Sep 02 22:59:20 like.. a file listing the apps, page by page, in order. Sep 02 22:59:58 i would have to say yes Sep 02 23:00:05 or else, how would it know where to put them? Sep 02 23:00:07 anyone know where it is? lol Sep 02 23:02:31 Decimation_: in a db yes Sep 02 23:02:37 which is a file Sep 02 23:02:43 but its not a plain text file Sep 02 23:02:45 :D Sep 02 23:02:51 :( Sep 02 23:03:01 Decimation_: its sqlite though Sep 02 23:03:05 its not rocket science Sep 02 23:03:09 * oil loves giving answers that aren't really answers Sep 02 23:03:16 * Decimation_ notices. Sep 02 23:03:30 PuffTheMagic: im thinking about making an app to organize them Sep 02 23:03:32 * oil also loves lmgtfy Sep 02 23:03:46 a lot quicker than doing it on the device. Sep 02 23:03:51 Decimation_: i was gonna add something to preware to do that Sep 02 23:03:53 well Sep 02 23:03:55 was thinking about it Sep 02 23:04:05 PuffTheMagic: please do. Sep 02 23:04:08 adding/removing pages directly from preare Sep 02 23:04:20 installing apps directly to a certain page Sep 02 23:05:20 it'd be nice. Sep 02 23:05:23 * freakout does not want to close the xchat window but needs to reboot. Dilemmas, dilemmas... Sep 02 23:05:37 * freakout says "Oh, bugger it." Sep 02 23:05:44 * Decimation_ hates closing his xchat window Sep 02 23:06:01 * freakout never knows what he's going to miss!! Sep 02 23:06:37 If you folks come up with the most awesomest webOS hack that ever lived, do tell me whence I return, would you? :D Sep 02 23:06:56 okay Sep 02 23:07:02 * Decimation_ waits for him to leave so he can talk about it Sep 02 23:07:07 lol Sep 02 23:07:11 bastards! Sep 02 23:12:12 PuffTheMagic: mplayer via a browser plugin would work, Sep 02 23:12:47 destinal: how? its not a library Sep 02 23:12:48 easiest way would be to just use the browser plugin as an adapter for the external binary to use as display and input Sep 02 23:12:53 its a standalone application Sep 02 23:13:02 so is PalmClassic Sep 02 23:13:13 what? Sep 02 23:13:22 classic is a separate binary Sep 02 23:13:26 uses its own process Sep 02 23:13:40 all plugins/sercices have their own process Sep 02 23:13:42 that process talks via a socket or something with it's instantiated plugin Sep 02 23:13:50 PuffTheMagic: no they don't Sep 02 23:13:58 termplugin is entirely in Luna Sep 02 23:14:02 when running Sep 02 23:14:03 no its not Sep 02 23:14:10 yes, it is Sep 02 23:14:36 its symbols are loaded into that process in that thread and executed there Sep 02 23:14:38 define entirely in luna Sep 02 23:14:43 LunaSysMgr Sep 02 23:15:04 a library is not a process Sep 02 23:15:09 each card i believe is a thread Sep 02 23:15:10 a library becomes part of the linking process Sep 02 23:15:15 destinal: i know Sep 02 23:15:24 but all services implement a tread Sep 02 23:15:25 thread Sep 02 23:15:27 well LunaSysMgr is one process though Sep 02 23:15:30 however many threads Sep 02 23:15:44 thread==process Sep 02 23:15:49 no Sep 02 23:15:59 not in pthreads IIRC Sep 02 23:16:12 one process, many threads Sep 02 23:16:26 :/ Sep 02 23:16:35 so PalmClassic is a totally different binary Sep 02 23:16:41 a process = one thread that can spawn many threads Sep 02 23:16:46 its plugin executes it and then opens a socket it shares Sep 02 23:17:04 destinal: PalmClassic is then a service Sep 02 23:17:10 a non dbus service Sep 02 23:17:15 well not really Sep 02 23:17:25 it's like a standalone app that talks to a plugin Sep 02 23:17:32 the plugin isn't it's client Sep 02 23:17:41 its a daemon with its own ipc Sep 02 23:17:49 which makes it a non dbus service Sep 02 23:18:01 well, but if the plugin provides services to the daemon Sep 02 23:18:06 how thin do you want to slice this? Sep 02 23:18:17 plugins doesnt provide services Sep 02 23:18:30 they're just two processes for crying out loud Sep 02 23:18:35 anyway Sep 02 23:18:38 Luna(and its plugin) Sep 02 23:18:39 mplayer dont create a socket Sep 02 23:18:42 and PalmClassic Sep 02 23:18:43 that i know of Sep 02 23:18:50 so there is no way to interface with it Sep 02 23:18:50 so yeah you have to port apps Sep 02 23:18:58 so no way to make use of it in a plugin' Sep 02 23:18:58 you'll port them to the adapter model Sep 02 23:19:04 no Sep 02 23:19:14 DOOM will run in luna Sep 02 23:19:25 via its own plugin, that instantiates it and renders for it Sep 02 23:19:27 when we get there Sep 02 23:19:34 when we get there Sep 02 23:19:34 lol Sep 02 23:19:41 how about keeping this in the present Sep 02 23:19:47 so right now, the adapter model doesn't work Sep 02 23:19:51 but ameng is working on it Sep 02 23:19:51 and that would be a heavily modified doom Sep 02 23:19:56 no, it wouldn'tr Sep 02 23:20:09 directfb will make all this really transparent Sep 02 23:20:26 an app needs to support directfb in the first place Sep 02 23:20:30 which is a small portion of apps Sep 02 23:20:32 very small Sep 02 23:20:33 SDL does Sep 02 23:20:39 ooooh Sep 02 23:20:44 so now we can use Mame too Sep 02 23:20:47 heh Sep 02 23:21:07 you are bringing in too many things that dont have to do with mplayer Sep 02 23:21:16 mplayer provides no IPC that i know of and no lib Sep 02 23:21:19 the point is, you'll port your app to the adapter model Sep 02 23:21:22 so it would be useless in a plugin Sep 02 23:21:28 the adapter is the plugin Sep 02 23:21:33 ? Sep 02 23:21:36 I never said it was trivial Sep 02 23:21:42 im lost Sep 02 23:21:49 adapter/service != plugin Sep 02 23:21:55 yes it is Sep 02 23:22:14 Adapter is a word for plugin as palm uses it Sep 02 23:22:19 no Sep 02 23:22:30 adapter is used for compiled non-java services Sep 02 23:22:37 aka Libpurple-adapter Sep 02 23:22:38 why can't it be both? Sep 02 23:22:42 cause its NOT Sep 02 23:22:47 plugins are plugins Sep 02 23:22:51 plugins are nsplugins Sep 02 23:23:03 adapters are standalone dbus daemons Sep 02 23:23:03 palm calls them adapters, ls your browser plugisn dir Sep 02 23:23:17 palm calls what adapters? Sep 02 23:23:24 all the shipping Browser Plugins Sep 02 23:23:28 that come in webos Sep 02 23:23:31 the only thing i've seen with the term adapter is libpurple adapter Sep 02 23:23:41 then you haven't seen that much :) Sep 02 23:23:45 BrowserPlugins are exactly that broswer plugins Sep 02 23:23:54 and services are services Sep 02 23:23:59 but things to adapt things are adapters Sep 02 23:24:07 and there are services to adapt things and plugins to adapt things Sep 02 23:24:12 they adapt things differently Sep 02 23:24:15 omg Sep 02 23:24:21 give me an example of an adapter Sep 02 23:24:24 that is not libputple Sep 02 23:24:26 purple Sep 02 23:24:31 ls /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins Sep 02 23:24:42 those are not adapters Sep 02 23:24:53 check out the FILENAMES Sep 02 23:25:08 Isn't the Office plugin an adapter? Sep 02 23:25:15 all plugins are Sep 02 23:25:20 that palm ships Sep 02 23:25:31 its a fucking plugin Sep 02 23:25:35 plugins are .so's Sep 02 23:25:38 they cant be run from cli Sep 02 23:25:43 adapters can run from cli Sep 02 23:25:46 there are not .so's Sep 02 23:25:46 looked at the filenames yet? Sep 02 23:25:51 i dont care about the file name Sep 02 23:25:52 but yet Sep 02 23:25:58 s/yet/yes/ Sep 02 23:26:14 root@qemux86:/usr/lib/BrowserPlugins# ls Sep 02 23:26:14 BrowserAdapter.so LunaMediaAdapter.so PDFAdapter.so Sep 02 23:26:14 BrowserAdapterData OfficeAdapter.so Sep 02 23:26:16 how can we talk about different things if we are gonna say everything is an adapter Sep 02 23:26:20 no infobot PuffTheMagic Sep 02 23:26:20 so adapters adapt things Sep 02 23:26:29 they are not plugins necessarily Sep 02 23:26:30 that is a retarded definition Sep 02 23:26:32 or services necessarily Sep 02 23:26:34 lol Sep 02 23:26:37 I'm using Palm's definitions Sep 02 23:26:47 plam didnt give us a def list Sep 02 23:26:49 they call both adapters, by _function_ Sep 02 23:26:50 you are making it up Sep 02 23:26:52 it's obvious Sep 02 23:26:53 Puff, you shoulda been watching when the channel first started Sep 02 23:26:59 they call it because that's what they >> DO << Sep 02 23:27:04 they adapt things Sep 02 23:27:07 destinal: i would probably killed my self by now Sep 02 23:27:19 I watched someone from Palm pull a semantic trick that made sargun's head explode Sep 02 23:27:23 it's not a technical definition] Sep 02 23:27:29 it's their terminology Sep 02 23:27:29 I wanna go dig it up in the log now. Sep 02 23:27:56 an adapter plugs in to something and talks to something else Sep 02 23:28:03 destinal: its your interpretation of their terminology Sep 02 23:28:05 libpurple-adapter plugs into lunaservice and talks to purple Sep 02 23:28:13 and calling 2 different things an adapter is useless Sep 02 23:28:22 Palm is the ones who did it Sep 02 23:28:32 that dont mean we need to Sep 02 23:28:37 how are you the one to call one instance right and another instance wrong? Sep 02 23:28:42 * rwhitby reckons that if there are 5 files with Adapter in the name, then Palm probably refers to them as Adapters .... Sep 02 23:28:56 then why do we call them plugins? Sep 02 23:29:09 Traceback (most recent call last): Sep 02 23:29:09 File "", line 1, in Sep 02 23:29:09 NameError: name 'talker' is not defined Sep 02 23:29:10 because NPAPI is a plugin definition standard Sep 02 23:29:16 thats the problem i am getting Sep 02 23:29:21 can anyone help Sep 02 23:29:26 and its directory is /usr/lib/BrowserPlugins Sep 02 23:29:39 your C service is a Service Sep 02 23:29:43 what good is calling a ns/gecko plugin in .so format an adapter just like we call libputpleadapter which is a standalone daemon an adapter also??? Sep 02 23:29:50 a "System Service" to use their terminology Sep 02 23:30:05 libpurpleadapter is only an adapter because of libpurple that it adapts Sep 02 23:30:11 other C services aren't called that Sep 02 23:30:19 what other C services are there? Sep 02 23:30:34 :1.7 (busname=com.palm.pubsubservice pid=1057 procname=/usr/bin/pubsubservice) Sep 02 23:31:01 lol so if it links to a library its an adapter Sep 02 23:31:13 If you use it to adapt something it's an adapter Sep 02 23:31:17 it's not a technical term Sep 02 23:31:28 guess i should rename my program to GlibLibSysfsMJsonCJsonBatteryAdapter Sep 02 23:31:32 no idea why you assumed it was Sep 02 23:31:56 destinal: you calling a service a plugin is what i really had the issue with Sep 02 23:32:02 call it batteryservice Sep 02 23:32:03 How come the emulator does not use /dev/input Sep 02 23:32:43 can someone help me with rooting my palm pre Sep 02 23:32:54 egaudet: why would anything have to use /dev/input? Sep 02 23:33:07 PuffTheMagic: I never called a service a plugin Sep 02 23:33:12 Isn't that where Luna is getting the input events Sep 02 23:33:16 s/where/how Sep 02 23:33:18 if it plugs into luna via NPAPI, I call it a plugin Sep 02 23:33:24 if it plugs in to hidd, I call it a plugin Sep 02 23:33:38 dont know what that is except a folder right Sep 02 23:33:59 lets just call them all "things" Sep 02 23:34:11 oil: how about widgets, wait that's taken :( Sep 02 23:34:16 <--noob Sep 02 23:34:19 battery thing Sep 02 23:34:20 package thing Sep 02 23:34:23 terminal thing Sep 02 23:34:28 virtual keyboard thing Sep 02 23:34:54 oil: shiny clever don't smash it thing Sep 02 23:35:15 that works too Sep 02 23:35:45 I watched someone from Palm pull a semantic trick that made sargun's head explode Sep 02 23:35:49 * Sargun had a had explode? Sep 02 23:35:52 FreeTim: I redid that wiki page earlier. Sep 02 23:35:55 egaudet: no, it's not where Luna is getting the input events Sep 02 23:36:03 egaudet: Luna is getting the input events from hidd Sep 02 23:36:09 hidd gets them from its plugins Sep 02 23:36:13 WTF Sep 02 23:36:17 i just doctored Sep 02 23:36:18 well using the term adapter should be banned since its useless, its a service or a plugin, dont matter if it links to another libary Sep 02 23:36:19 some of its plugins may get them from /dev/input Sep 02 23:36:20 and restored Sep 02 23:36:28 Sargun: may have been saurik Sep 02 23:36:33 and it says i dont have any contacts in my palm profile Sep 02 23:36:33 ? Sep 02 23:36:36 WTF IS THIS Sep 02 23:36:44 I'll check the logs later. it was cdm Sep 02 23:36:47 fail Sep 02 23:36:50 destinal, in the end someone HAS to get it from /dev/input no? Or do they have some other they are getting from kernel to user space? Sep 02 23:36:55 maybe you should get a second opinion Sep 02 23:37:13 wtf, why would this happen Sep 02 23:37:16 PuffTheMagic: Palm actually uses an adapter model for their internal plugin architecture. they wrap npapi for whatever app using a standard palm proprietary library, abstracting a lot of stuff in the process Sep 02 23:37:55 I wish they had given us the code, but since they didn't I want to come up with a universal abstraction that makes graphics and I/O simple to extend to separate processes Sep 02 23:38:08 so we can easily port traditional GUI apps to running under luna Sep 02 23:38:18 starting with directfb if ameng can get it rolling Sep 02 23:38:57 basically, we don't want to shove huge apps into Luna Sep 02 23:39:13 much better to shove in an "adapter" if you will that talks to an external process / binary Sep 02 23:39:49 as soon as you said adapter you lost me Sep 02 23:40:19 s/adapter/intermediary plugin/ Sep 02 23:40:44 infobot is MIA again Sep 02 23:40:46 :( Sep 02 23:40:51 lol Sep 02 23:41:24 destinal: Its busy downloading 1.2 Sep 02 23:41:36 xD Sep 02 23:42:07 Now *this* is funny: http://www.premobilephone.com/2009/09/new-palm-pre-dev-wiki-now-known-as-web.html Sep 02 23:42:26 "The First Blog on the World Wide Web to Cover Everything about Palm's Pre Cell Phone." and they only just realised the wiki moved ... Sep 02 23:42:49 lolol Sep 02 23:43:50 OMGWTFBBQ, The Wiki moved??? Sep 02 23:43:53 scoop! Sep 02 23:44:18 is there anyone able to help with an error i am getting trying to root my palm pree Sep 02 23:44:20 * freakout blogs madly Sep 02 23:44:55 rofl Sep 02 23:45:29 just tried to install quilt-lite Sep 02 23:45:32 errored me Sep 02 23:45:35 told me to come here. Sep 02 23:46:37 root@castle:/# ipkg-opt update Sep 02 23:46:37 /bin/sh: ipkg-opt: not found Sep 02 23:46:38 lol, wtf. Sep 02 23:46:48 why doesn't that work.. Sep 02 23:47:45 egaudet: the emulator has different plugins (after all, it has a PS/2 keyboard) Sep 02 23:48:15 its hid plugins send the same kinds of events up to luna but get their info from different places Sep 02 23:48:22 and of course it has way fewer hid plugins Sep 02 23:49:29 it lacks a proximity sensor and accelerometer and ambient light sensor and other stuff Sep 02 23:50:21 OK well I successfully linked device created by uinput to keypad0, killed hidd (it restarts) and watched my user created a's print to the emulator Sep 02 23:51:06 egaudet: cool. please don't use that mechanism for anything you distribute. :) Sep 02 23:51:47 why? Sep 02 23:51:57 if we need custom input mechanisms we should create hidd plugins Sep 02 23:52:16 fit into the architecture properly Sep 02 23:52:33 Messing around with ways to show support for webOS-Internals on precentral http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5954/supportg.png (remember it's on a gray background). Sep 02 23:52:37 we can't create hidd plugins (yet) though Sep 02 23:52:38 destinal: you have to run it with root don't you? Sep 02 23:52:43 err sorry Sep 02 23:52:47 :( Sep 02 23:52:51 Decimation_* Sep 02 23:53:01 egaudet: well I'm working on reverse engineering it. want to help? :) Sep 02 23:53:14 yes if I can Sep 02 23:53:44 keypad0 is just a symlink (if i relinked to another input event it wouldn't do too much damage) Sep 02 23:53:55 egaudet: check out /etc/hidd Sep 02 23:53:56 but anywhoooo, how far have you gotten Sep 02 23:54:23 and the PLUGINS var in /etc/event.d/hidd Sep 02 23:54:42 the latter will give you the name of the xml configuration file in the former directory Sep 02 23:54:52 plugins? Sep 02 23:54:58 you mean adapters? Sep 02 23:55:05 heh Sep 02 23:57:16 Decimation_: try /opt/bin/ipkg-opt Sep 03 00:00:37 destinal, have you started disassembling any of the hid plugins? Sep 03 00:01:23 better question have you any leads as to how they interface with luna Sep 03 00:05:11 somehow palm manages to lose all my contacts Sep 03 00:05:14 this is great. Sep 03 00:05:47 How Decimation? Sep 03 00:05:55 idk Sep 03 00:06:11 I had the same thing happen to me after a WebOS doctor Sep 03 00:07:10 my palm profile keep my contacts or something Sep 03 00:07:12 wtf. Sep 03 00:07:33 Yep same thing happened to me and a friend Sep 03 00:07:53 i plan on getting something free out of this for my "troubles" Sep 03 00:07:55 It refuses to upload my Palm Profile. It only imports a few pieces of data. Sep 03 00:08:14 yeah, google contacts for me it is. Sep 03 00:08:43 They don't have a fix yet. I still have a ticket with them on the issue Sep 03 00:09:22 Still pissed about it Sep 03 00:10:43 * oil grabs pitch fork and rallies the villagers Sep 03 00:11:02 You forgot the torches Sep 03 00:11:09 i can only carry one thing Sep 03 00:11:14 the other villagers will get those Sep 03 00:11:22 You Pre in one hand and pitchfork in another? Sep 03 00:11:57 yesh Sep 03 00:12:30 there is really no way to get em back.. this sucks. Sep 03 00:13:05 they wouldnt still be on their server? Sep 03 00:13:08 * oil has been using one of those sync programs to send it to outlook Sep 03 00:13:18 I had to import what I had from my dumb flipphone Sep 03 00:13:36 How many Pre's have you replaced Decimation? Sep 03 00:14:52 * oil still has his first Sep 03 00:15:10 4th Sep 03 00:15:19 ouch Sep 03 00:15:42 dead pixel Sep 03 00:15:44 dead pixel Sep 03 00:15:46 dead pixel Sep 03 00:15:51 now here i am Sep 03 00:16:08 perfect is where i've always been Sep 03 00:16:56 I've had to return my emulator six times Sep 03 00:17:01 :P Sep 03 00:17:02 lol Sep 03 00:17:18 freaking QA, Palm! heard of it? Sep 03 00:17:21 :P Sep 03 00:18:43 anyone familiar with the lighttpd install available? Sep 03 00:19:35 AZero: from optware? Sep 03 00:19:37 I've got the DNS working and SSH, can see HTML files but it's having trouble with php files. Sep 03 00:20:08 I'm just trying to get the php working Sep 03 00:20:21 I am fairly certain the culprit is lighttpd Sep 03 00:20:44 AZero: are you installing these things from optware? Sep 03 00:20:53 I was doing it through novaterm Sep 03 00:21:13 not super familiar with optware, for some reason i thought it was already installed on the pre Sep 03 00:22:00 i set everything up with webos Sep 03 00:22:09 not real familiar with optware Sep 03 00:22:18 only thing i found on it was to install it to the emulator Sep 03 00:23:04 AZero: what command did you use to install it? Sep 03 00:23:18 i haven't installed optware Sep 03 00:23:39 all I am really trying to do is track my phone if it gets stolen Sep 03 00:24:03 i don't know if i can post URLs in here Sep 03 00:24:13 ill show you the guides I followed in pm if you want to help Sep 03 00:27:57 AZero: you can post URLs in here, no probs. Sep 03 00:29:27 AZero (and anyone else looking for info on how to use Optware packages): take a browse through http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo Sep 03 00:29:38 especially http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/DeployPHPWebAppUsingFastCGI might be of interest to you Sep 03 00:31:13 cannot find these packages Sep 03 00:31:19 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/DeployPHPWebAppUsingFastCGI Sep 03 00:31:30 i put in the top commands and couldn't find the packages Sep 03 00:31:34 is there a wget command for it? Sep 03 00:31:59 yea so, I'm looking at HidPlugins.xml. and they have different sockets for each plugin right ? Sep 03 00:32:27 right Sep 03 00:32:37 Luna must be communicating with only the keypad socket for key events Sep 03 00:32:43 not at all Sep 03 00:32:50 the socket is just between the plugin and hidd Sep 03 00:33:04 hidd I believe uses dbus to talk to luna Sep 03 00:33:24 do i need to run through the optware setup? Sep 03 00:33:30 or maybe its own socket, it's been a while since I looked Sep 03 00:34:09 lol, im on the phone with palm Sep 03 00:34:10 ok just had the lightbulb moment destinal, now I see how it's fitting together Sep 03 00:34:12 asking about my contacts Sep 03 00:34:15 rwhitby: cannot find package libstdc++ Sep 03 00:34:22 this guy has literatly had me do 6 partial erases Sep 03 00:34:26 i dont even do em anymore Sep 03 00:34:28 when talking about hidd we were talking about the daemon that is actually talking to luna (over dbus or however) Sep 03 00:34:35 and just say okay and set my phone down for 5 minutes Sep 03 00:34:47 right, human interface device daemon is my guess as to what it's meant to stand for Sep 03 00:34:58 and it uses a collection of these sockets to send different things, and we can create our own to send the SAME thing as the keypad one Sep 03 00:35:00 and stuff plugs into it Sep 03 00:35:04 right Sep 03 00:35:28 no reason you can't have five keyboards plugged in at once AFAIK Sep 03 00:35:31 well the description in event.d says human 'input' device daemon Sep 03 00:35:50 okay that makes sense, since the ambient light thing is input also Sep 03 00:35:56 as is accelerometer, etc Sep 03 00:35:57 * oil feels the need for 5 keyboards at once Sep 03 00:36:48 They'll go nicely with your 700 monitors oil. Sep 03 00:36:59 seriously Sep 03 00:36:59 AZero: which package requires it (remember that wiki page was written for an NSLU2, and the Pre will be different regarding which libraries are already on the device) Sep 03 00:37:21 So the plugins export one function, called PluginTable I think (have to check my notes) that is dynamically loaded and then called by hidd, and the plugin returns what I think is a struct of pointers to its functions (a callback table) Sep 03 00:38:04 I started working on a test harness but haven't gotten that far yet Sep 03 00:38:07 So guys, we need to start preparing for the 1.2 webOS update. What from webos-internals is likely to break apart from quilt-installed patches (which you use quilt pop -a to remove first) and the virtual keyboard (which you remove using Preware first) ? Sep 03 00:38:38 ok so what do i install to get php files to be read? Sep 03 00:39:15 AZero: have you read the lighttpd documentation? Sep 03 00:39:19 when is this 1.2 update rumored? Sep 03 00:39:22 egaudet: sorry to be a downer, I know you can probably get farther right this minute with your kernel module idea Sep 03 00:39:33 i've gone through it a few times, it says the lighttpd server is running Sep 03 00:39:35 but I'm into the "right way" thing Sep 03 00:39:44 Abyssul: all I know is that some people have reported on PreCentral threads that it is in beta testing Sep 03 00:39:44 destinal, it's cool I am a big fan of doing things right as well Sep 03 00:39:50 php and a webserver on the pre? Sep 03 00:39:52 Hmm Sep 03 00:39:54 seems a little pointless Sep 03 00:40:14 php and a webserver on a pre is almost always the Wrong Thing (tm) Sep 03 00:40:22 you've clarified the hidd stuff for me, so whereas my uinput idea seemed good, our "X" is not interfacing with /dev/input directly so it's in fact wrong Sep 03 00:40:41 oil: on the contrary, it can be an easy way to get info off the Pre ... Sep 03 00:40:46 AZero: which doco did you read? urls please. Sep 03 00:41:00 well when they re-write the whole phone and sdk so that it is programmed in c++ so i can make stuff... it will break a lot of things :D Sep 03 00:41:04 Can anyone think of why my Pre locks up when I use CPU scaling while idle? Sep 03 00:41:08 destinal: "because you can" is always the Right Thing (tm) ;-) Sep 03 00:41:11 http://palmpre-hacks.com/palm-pre-hacks/how-to-installrun-a-wordpress-blog-on-a-palm-pre/ Sep 03 00:41:15 i went through that one Sep 03 00:41:23 AZero: that's not lighttpd documentation Sep 03 00:41:25 easier then an ajax call in a simple mojo app? Sep 03 00:41:45 rwhitby, let's talk murphy's law for a minute Sep 03 00:41:57 http://www.lighttpd.net/ this doesn't have commands for novaterm Sep 03 00:41:59 and say palm releases 1.2 which updates the framework.js file but doesn't touch the .css file Sep 03 00:42:10 80% of people updated before removing the kb patch Sep 03 00:42:39 oil: I just want to track my pre if it gets stolen Sep 03 00:42:44 egaudet: love disaster planning :-) Sep 03 00:42:45 now we have prerm that has a patch -R that will fail on one file, and a postinst patch (when ported to 1.2) that will fail on the css Sep 03 00:42:55 AZero: couldn't someone write a mojo app to do that? Sep 03 00:43:01 I would love that Sep 03 00:43:11 php, apache, mysql, etc seem like a good way to slow down your pre and waste battery Sep 03 00:43:15 and there are many users that will NOT be able/willing to, in their words "root" Sep 03 00:43:22 I can turn it off too Sep 03 00:43:29 but knowing how to turn it on will work temporarily Sep 03 00:43:38 egaudet: yep Sep 03 00:43:43 soooo can we get a preinst that "cleans" up screwups or something? Sep 03 00:43:58 lol Sep 03 00:43:59 i would love some install commands that would make this lighttpd work Sep 03 00:44:00 rwhitby: I wonder if we would have been better off using ipkg under / Sep 03 00:44:15 egaudet: are the .orig files there on the Pre after patch does it's work? Sep 03 00:44:17 then we could put dependencies on palm's packages Sep 03 00:44:27 is there an optimal option for novaterm install of lighttpd? Sep 03 00:44:46 rwhitby, no I should be creating backups eh Sep 03 00:44:55 AZero: there is no step-by-step - you have to learn the different parts along the way. Sep 03 00:45:22 egaudet: I thought patch left .orig files by default ... Sep 03 00:45:26 rwhitby: so when you update a package in ipkg Sep 03 00:45:27 does it? Sep 03 00:45:28 what am i missing? Sep 03 00:45:32 let me see Sep 03 00:45:34 rwhitby: does it remove dependencies? Sep 03 00:45:36 other than a php ipkg Sep 03 00:45:49 if they have an =version Sep 03 00:45:49 Are we able to change the current accelerator refresh rate? Sep 03 00:45:55 or update them, or anything? Sep 03 00:45:57 Abyssul, yes Sep 03 00:46:06 I have edited config files and that sort of thing, but nothing giving Sep 03 00:46:08 assuming you meant accelerometer Sep 03 00:46:13 Yes Sep 03 00:46:15 destinal: dunno - I think it will try and update them if the new version of the package you want to install has a different dependency Sep 03 00:46:22 sorry lol, is there a limit? Sep 03 00:46:26 destinal: depending on palm packages is just too scary for me Sep 03 00:46:29 it's in sysfs, I made a service to allow mojo apps to change it Sep 03 00:46:41 my service limits it to 1KHZ Sep 03 00:46:44 has anyone added lighttpd to their palm pre? Sep 03 00:46:45 rwhitby: well, it's getting scarier not to, I think Sep 03 00:47:10 a lot of people are potentially in for a world of breakage in 1.2 Sep 03 00:47:29 and since PuffTheMagic hasn't mentioned it lately, patches suck. :) Sep 03 00:47:30 destinal: yep, it will be a good learning experience for them ;-) Sep 03 00:47:46 No dir command in webOS terminal? Sep 03 00:47:52 ls Sep 03 00:47:55 freakout: you're in linux Sep 03 00:47:56 freakout: it's Linux Sep 03 00:48:01 i have been learning for 3 days im ready for some help =) Sep 03 00:48:01 lol Sep 03 00:48:06 Echo in here? Sep 03 00:48:14 Echo in here? Sep 03 00:48:25 dir works jus' fine on Ubuntu Sep 03 00:48:25 ok time to head home Sep 03 00:48:32 Is it teaching me bad habits? Sep 03 00:48:37 yep Sep 03 00:48:51 freakout: you can add an alias in the shell Sep 03 00:48:53 dir works fine in novaterm Sep 03 00:49:09 rwhitby: cool Sep 03 00:49:51 has anyone ever had a bug that doesn't have to do with their code it deals with someone elses? Sep 03 00:50:11 oil: the reason running it in the background is more important is so the theif does not realize they are being tracked Sep 03 00:50:35 Is there a specific date for the 1.2 update rumor? Sep 03 00:50:44 today! Sep 03 00:50:47 today Sep 03 00:50:52 hahaha Sep 03 00:50:56 Just wondering lol Sep 03 00:51:48 i know this guy who knows Sep 03 00:51:54 he has all the inside info Sep 03 00:51:58 well.. him and his friends Sep 03 00:52:04 they go by a secret group name Sep 03 00:52:07 "palm" Sep 03 00:52:18 lol. For a second I thought it'd be Illuminati Sep 03 00:52:23 lol Sep 03 00:52:29 They're also in the know. (taps nose) Sep 03 00:52:36 Not like those Freemason guys. Bloody frauds. Sep 03 00:52:38 :P Sep 03 00:52:39 the guy at the sprint store told me 1.5 will be out tomorrow Sep 03 00:52:49 lmfao Sep 03 00:52:51 with 200 apps in the catalog Sep 03 00:52:54 lol Sep 03 00:52:55 static-file.exclude-extensions = ( ".fcgi", ".php", ".rb", "~", ".inc" ) Sep 03 00:53:02 could this be what is causing php files to be excluded? Sep 03 00:53:09 yeah my friends girlfriends uncles neighbor works for palm Sep 03 00:53:09 and the gsm port is enabled on the sprint model Sep 03 00:53:10 apparently palm customer support things all problems are fixed by a partial erase. Sep 03 00:53:11 and he said today Sep 03 00:53:39 lol Sep 03 00:53:53 lol Sep 03 00:54:10 i am betting this friday, if not then, then i give up lol Sep 03 00:54:22 rwhitby, so patch will backup with -b option Sep 03 00:54:31 but not by default unless there are mismatches Sep 03 00:55:28 AZero: if my phone was stolen Sep 03 00:55:33 i would call up sprint Sep 03 00:55:34 and get a new one Sep 03 00:55:38 Screw it, I am changing my postinst to make backups, and the prerm to use backups rather than patch -R Sep 03 00:56:39 I'd find the person at the party who grabbed it and beat the snot out of them Sep 03 00:56:53 what if they're bigger then you? Sep 03 00:56:56 and with 10 of their hommies? Sep 03 00:57:08 how u gonna call sprint without ur phone? Sep 03 00:57:13 another phone Sep 03 00:57:19 then other people Sep 03 00:57:24 its not rocket science Sep 03 00:57:32 neither is beating some theifs ass Sep 03 00:57:37 lol Sep 03 00:57:43 Simple solution: overclocking script that can be activated by SMS. Whoever nicked it winds up with melted pants Sep 03 00:57:53 lol Sep 03 00:57:57 lol Sep 03 00:58:02 he still has to get php and apache to run on his pre Sep 03 00:58:04 Thats a BA script Sep 03 00:58:13 Bunch of geeks! :P Sep 03 00:58:28 Have the script set the clock speed to 900 Mhz Sep 03 00:58:29 if lighttpd will work it'll be fine Sep 03 00:58:32 beats apache Sep 03 00:58:42 but you cant get any of it working Sep 03 00:58:44 so it doesnt matter Sep 03 00:58:51 I have lighttpd working on my phone with a GPS tracking .php Sep 03 00:58:59 lolol Sep 03 00:59:02 lol Sep 03 00:59:04 gps ftw Sep 03 00:59:14 * oil would write mojo app to do it Sep 03 00:59:23 after enabling it and changing settings Sep 03 00:59:27 change its appinfo to be invisible Sep 03 00:59:30 and forget about it Sep 03 00:59:33 You can do it, but you dont want to. Sep 03 00:59:39 i could care less Sep 03 00:59:46 im paying insurance/etc on my phone Sep 03 00:59:55 im damn well going to get my money worth Sep 03 01:00:03 not go into some dark alley looking for the thief Sep 03 01:00:08 Abyssul: Sep 03 01:00:11 that's what im trying to do! Sep 03 01:00:21 im real far actually Sep 03 01:00:36 i just need to get lighttpd to read php Sep 03 01:00:41 lol Sep 03 01:01:23 i got the web server up and everything Sep 03 01:01:25 i can ssh to it Sep 03 01:01:30 got webos working as far as i can tell Sep 03 01:01:41 I hope WebOs is working :) Sep 03 01:01:50 err Sep 03 01:01:50 yeah Sep 03 01:01:53 i meant mysql Sep 03 01:02:19 oil i have no idea how to write those programs and make them invis otherwise i'd take that avenue Sep 03 01:02:47 plus configuring all this stuff will help me learn how to host my other website from one of my backup computers Sep 03 01:03:28 lol Sep 03 01:03:40 Oil wont help lol Sep 03 01:03:48 lol Sep 03 01:04:14 egaudet: so you need to do a virtual-keyboard update before palm releases 1.2, to get everyone having .orig files on the device Sep 03 01:04:40 lol Sep 03 01:04:43 gogog Sep 03 01:04:45 or there will be mass confusion and noob speak going on Sep 03 01:04:51 yea working on it now Sep 03 01:05:00 how can I test my ipkg Sep 03 01:05:04 * oil knows preware will be blamed Sep 03 01:05:13 will ipkg -o /var install work? Sep 03 01:05:15 I think AZero has already figured it out in an earlier comment Sep 03 01:05:28 "wtf mY keybaord thingy doent work aymore?" Sep 03 01:05:40 egaudet: yes, and then you need to manually run the postinst Sep 03 01:05:52 yup Sep 03 01:06:00 egaudet: actually, moving a .orig back *after* a 1.2 update where someone didn't remove the patch previous, would be a bad thing. Sep 03 01:06:06 wait so I need to create md5sums of the PATCHED file too Sep 03 01:06:18 lol Sep 03 01:06:19 just thought of that at the same moment as you lol Sep 03 01:06:46 this patch-as-ipk business sounds like a real pita Sep 03 01:06:54 ya think Sep 03 01:06:56 lol Sep 03 01:06:58 lol Sep 03 01:07:11 oil: that's why we're using egaudet as the guinea pig :-) Sep 03 01:07:20 :P Sep 03 01:07:25 cause he's a scripting wizard Sep 03 01:07:45 OK crack a hole in this plan... Sep 03 01:07:57 oil: the same issues arise with patch in quilt, so the ipkg is invariant. Sep 03 01:08:08 ah Sep 03 01:08:34 postinst checks md5sums from webosdoctor image, patches files, creates md5sums file of patched files Sep 03 01:08:36 if someone doesn't quilt pop -a before an update, they are in the same position as the one that the prerm and postinst needs to deal with Sep 03 01:08:37 im thinkin the available patches button needs a splash screen Sep 03 01:08:49 prerm checks patched md5sums and moves orig back if match Sep 03 01:08:52 "These WILL FUCK UP YOUR PHONE if you don't remove them before updating" Sep 03 01:09:04 I like Oil's idea Sep 03 01:09:05 oil: in reality, they won't. Sep 03 01:09:10 NO, we will make it seemless for the user Sep 03 01:09:18 lol Sep 03 01:09:18 oil: either palm updates framework, or they don'. Sep 03 01:09:23 and by "these" Sep 03 01:09:27 i mean "this patch" Sep 03 01:09:31 cause there is only 1 Sep 03 01:09:40 if they do, then they update all files and obliterate the patch. the prerm fails and the palm still works. Sep 03 01:09:44 hmmm what about the files I create though Sep 03 01:10:01 if they don't update framework, the patch still works. Sep 03 01:10:13 Won't matter because it will remove the calls from the framework. Sep 03 01:11:10 * rwhitby turns logging on for www.webos-internals.org and ipkg.preware.org, so he can see when Palm uses webos 1.2 to access them ... Sep 03 01:12:03 hehehe Sep 03 01:12:17 why would palm use webos 1.2 to access those websites? Sep 03 01:12:38 PreGame: if someone is beta testing 1.2, and access those sites, we'll know about it. Sep 03 01:12:52 why would you go to those sites on the pre? Sep 03 01:13:08 PreGame Sep 03 01:13:10 Any JS gurus want to help me track down a bug and fix the notification during calls issue? Sep 03 01:13:17 same reason you'd go to precentral.net on a Pre ... Sep 03 01:13:19 PreGame: Hey you never know Sep 03 01:13:31 why would someone go to www.google.com on a Pre ? Sep 03 01:13:33 i dont go to precentral.net on a pre really Sep 03 01:13:41 nor would i go there on a beta testing pre Sep 03 01:13:46 PreGame: but that's just you. Sep 03 01:14:51 * oil goes to precentral or webos-internals sometimes from his pre Sep 03 01:14:59 ive got some subscribed threads/watched pages Sep 03 01:19:17 i would not be surprised if someone on the pre from Palm went ot precentral to test some homebrew Sep 03 01:19:26 i browse desktop sites all the time on the train (on my pre) Sep 03 01:19:43 or viewed stuff Sep 03 01:21:06 There are people at palm who have gone to precentral, and who have tried preware/etc Sep 03 01:21:31 keyboard?? Sep 03 01:22:04 interesting to hear Sep 03 01:24:27 and what do they think? Sep 03 01:25:54 oil: there's a post on PreCentral that says that someone talked to Judy (I think that's the name) in developer relations, and they love homebrew sites cause it allows them to find good authors for the real app catalog. Sep 03 01:27:10 I'm still of the opinion that BGR doesn't like palm/products very much Sep 03 01:27:39 So I'm looking at the giant warning on the pager/nagger page, and wondering if it could contain any more factual errors Sep 03 01:28:20 I mean, I guess it could Sep 03 01:28:23 probably Sep 03 01:28:28 chrisa, which post clued you in to that ? Sep 03 01:28:29 but the entire warning is unfounded Sep 03 01:28:29 what factual errors are you jiggering over? Sep 03 01:28:29 :) Sep 03 01:28:32 In short, sqlite is designed for one user per database Sep 03 01:28:35 false Sep 03 01:28:57 the implication that a SELECT statement will create a lock... false Sep 03 01:29:22 indeed, I think it was the calendar application that caused my horrible crash Sep 03 01:29:30 hence my reply Sep 03 01:29:45 I wrote to the talk page Sep 03 01:29:57 linked aqlite's official FAQ Sep 03 01:30:05 sqlite's too Sep 03 01:30:58 The reason I initially thought it was the nagger is that it's the only thing I had really done to the phone. I didn't really occur to me the calendar app could crash that badly just from a few poorly timed operator decisions Sep 03 01:31:08 heh Sep 03 01:31:28 rebooting during a long calendar operation is a very bad idea... Sep 03 01:31:33 * egaudet begins to hate patches Sep 03 01:31:51 I hated patches, then switched to using git for everything Sep 03 01:32:03 chrisa++ Sep 03 01:32:14 I don't see myself patching luna at any point... Sep 03 01:32:48 git is awesome, it's the having to list every single patched file and do the md5sums and etc... in my postinst/prerm scripts that I'm hating Sep 03 01:32:50 I should have put also at the head of that Sep 03 01:33:10 What do you guys use in Linux in order to access files using sftp? Sep 03 01:33:11 egaudet: you could pretty easily automate that Sep 03 01:33:25 jettero: did you change the main wiki page then, Sep 03 01:33:27 ???? Sep 03 01:33:44 I have to create the automation Sep 03 01:34:15 unless you are saying there is already a way Sep 03 01:34:25 fuck it I would just use a mix of ssh and sftp Sep 03 01:34:48 Rick_home: I don't fully understand that question Sep 03 01:35:05 Rick_home: I added a reply to the warning danger on the pager nager script page Sep 03 01:35:10 My pre needs a root Sep 03 01:35:16 it has one Sep 03 01:35:20 you need access to it is all Sep 03 01:35:36 jettero: but aren't you saying that the warning is incorrect based on your updated data? Sep 03 01:35:39 do I have to dig it up Sep 03 01:36:07 Rick_home: I don't know what caused the crash. I *think* it was palms calendar operation combined with my reboot Sep 03 01:36:16 ok Sep 03 01:36:21 gak. there are 2 apps called shoutcast. wth.... Sep 03 01:36:25 back to awk Sep 03 01:36:27 just wondered if thed main page had been updated. Sep 03 01:36:35 what is the main page? Sep 03 01:36:39 of the wiki? or of pager nagger? Sep 03 01:36:40 nevermind Sep 03 01:36:48 the big red warning is gone. Someone udpated it Sep 03 01:37:02 oh, it was on the front page too? Sep 03 01:37:11 yeah, I really don't think the nagger can cause the crash Sep 03 01:37:23 even if it did lock a table, it looks to me like luna gets mad about it, but doesn't crash Sep 03 01:38:17 ... I was pretty freaked out after the db rebuild. I wasn't thinking clearly. :) Sep 03 01:38:44 Quick room ping: any highly recommended reading for beginner's JS? Sep 03 01:39:16 internet? Sep 03 01:39:19 lol Sep 03 01:39:22 js is best learned by example Sep 03 01:39:24 I meant actual dead-trees Sep 03 01:39:35 oh, there was a wonderful dhtml book from ages past Sep 03 01:39:38 probably not relevant anymore Sep 03 01:39:45 ponder Sep 03 01:39:48 what was that Sep 03 01:39:53 try http://www.google.com/search?q=doug+crockford+good+stuff&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a Sep 03 01:40:06 john resig suggested: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-JavaScript-Developers-Wrox-Programmer/dp/047022780X Sep 03 01:40:31 * freakout tips hat to room Sep 03 01:40:41 Has anyone looked at the o'reilly webos book? Sep 03 01:40:46 Curious how it is Sep 03 01:40:54 waste of time Sep 03 01:41:09 Good, but assumes a level of JS familiarity already Sep 03 01:41:16 hmmm Sep 03 01:41:19 first five chapters, so far o'reilly site has over 200 errors that have been reported Sep 03 01:41:26 what he said ^^ Sep 03 01:41:33 it lies, even MORE than palm's on-line documentation does. Sep 03 01:41:37 * freakout defers to more experienced hands Sep 03 01:41:46 and those are pretty bad huh Rick? Sep 03 01:41:46 it documents a version of the SDK which is at least FOUR revisions out of date. Sep 03 01:41:59 eguy, you CAN NOT trust palm's documentation. Sep 03 01:42:01 so it looks like ripping apart palm applications already on the device is a better learning mechanism Sep 03 01:42:01 the palm online docs are bad? Sep 03 01:42:02 javascript the good parts is a good book too Sep 03 01:42:28 For example. The developer.palm.com api docs say that alertDialog is in Mojo.Controller just like errorDialog is. Sep 03 01:42:31 but it isn't. Sep 03 01:42:35 Work gave me a copy of the good parts book Sep 03 01:42:38 It's in the STAGE controller..... Sep 03 01:42:58 so calling Mojo.Controller.alertDialog() gives a useless error. Sep 03 01:43:01 Rick_home: It's probably just out of sync, I doubt it was an outright lie Sep 03 01:43:07 chrisa: we'd love to use git to manage our modifications to webos, but doing so would violate Palm's copyright on the files. So we have do deal with patches. Sep 03 01:43:16 bpadaline, that a good book? Sep 03 01:43:23 It's at least THREE REVISIONS out of date chrisa. Sep 03 01:43:34 rick what is best JS book on market? Sep 03 01:43:38 tharris-, it was suggested by john resig - and he writes jquery .. so he kind of knows what he is talking about i guess Sep 03 01:43:49 heh Sep 03 01:43:50 and since the web site is a dump if the jsdoc docs from ramework, there's no EXCUSE for it being out of date. Sep 03 01:43:58 tharris it takes 2. Sep 03 01:44:06 1) Crockford: Javascript the good parts. Sep 03 01:44:48 my favorite programming book is "Pointers on C" Sep 03 01:45:00 and while I certainly agree with Resig that Professional Javascript Development is a good book, Sep 03 01:45:13 once you have JS -TGP then you need a true reference to JS. Sep 03 01:46:17 which IMHO and in david Crocfords, takes you to the rhino book JavaScript: The Definitive Guide by David Flanagan Sep 03 01:46:46 my favorite programming book, the one I try to get everyone to actually WORK THROUGH is "The Little Schemer" Sep 03 01:46:58 although I understand your point bpadalino Sep 03 01:47:22 if you actually WORK THROUGH the little schemer, you will understand recursion, and closure. Sep 03 01:49:08 there's too many topics i don't understand fully Sep 03 01:49:36 one of the sad points of my life was when I found that Palm chose prototype instead of YUI Sep 03 01:50:11 For me, the big one would be lambda. I may be too old. I'm not sure. But I'm going to make another pass at it soon. Sep 03 01:51:03 so this Little Schemer book is good? Sep 03 01:51:18 Rick_home: wtf does The Forbidden Dance have to do with programming? Sep 03 01:51:19 yes, its not bad Sep 03 01:51:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AfTl5Vg73A Sep 03 01:51:22 :P Sep 03 01:51:35 i prefer jquery Sep 03 01:52:19 v4lyfe2_: the Little Schemer may be the most important programming book written in the last 30 years. Sep 03 01:52:25 but. Sep 03 01:52:31 BUT Sep 03 01:52:38 do not expect it to be a reference. Sep 03 01:52:45 hmm Sep 03 01:52:47 do not expect it to teach you syntax Sep 03 01:52:51 htdp.org is more of a reference book Sep 03 01:52:53 sounds like someone talking about their favorite band Sep 03 01:52:54 or how to cut and paste functions. Sep 03 01:53:08 no, i want more of the theory Sep 03 01:53:12 It will re-shape your mind into a new and different path. Sep 03 01:53:19 something between abstract math notation and cut-n-paste Sep 03 01:53:24 and cause you to think about problems from a different perspective. Sep 03 01:53:35 basically, it teaches recursion. Sep 03 01:53:41 that would be great Sep 03 01:53:50 but in a way you have never ever seen. Sep 03 01:53:58 and in the process, you learn how to write a simple dialect of scheme. Sep 03 01:54:07 oil: another one for the Preware tributes page: "its like christmas everyday now" (http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1865200) Sep 03 01:54:07 *yawn*, it's scheme/lisp, it's not some new plane of enlightenment Sep 03 01:54:11 it sucks, matthias felleisen is currently not teaching and might not teach any classes until i graduate from northeastern Sep 03 01:54:12 You're upselling a bit much Sep 03 01:54:26 chrisa -- it is not scheme lisp Sep 03 01:54:34 that's my point. Sep 03 01:54:38 sigh. Sep 03 01:54:49 chrisa. it's not about syntax or about language. Sep 03 01:54:56 it's about -- nevermind. Sep 03 01:55:07 Rick_home: i get you Sep 03 01:55:26 Ok, chrisa, let me ask you. What's a good book on the lambda calculus. Sep 03 01:55:40 because without THAT you have serious trouble mastering functional languages. Sep 03 01:55:52 I didn't say it wasn't a good book. But you're making it out to be a life changing experience Sep 03 01:56:00 well, for me it was. Sep 03 01:56:06 but then, as I say, I'm old. Sep 03 01:56:36 so, it was absolutely a life-changing experiance. I was very very much a procedural programmer who had learned to manage in an OOP environment. Sep 03 01:56:45 i think it will definitely change the way you look/think about programming again. even if not by much Sep 03 01:56:49 Crockford loves it (who knew he was an Amazon reviewer?) Sep 03 01:56:59 "Despite its flaws, the book has a very loyal following and that is because it works. It teaches one thing, a thing that is very difficult to teach, a thing that every profession programmer should know, and it does it really well. These are lessons that stick with you. You need to grab a sandwich and study this book." Sep 03 01:57:14 it's a very small book Sep 03 01:57:20 it doesn't take very long to do Sep 03 01:57:29 rwhitby: it is like christmas =) except christmas feels a little slow Sep 03 01:58:07 Crockford's older than I am. :-) Sep 03 01:58:25 68? Sep 03 02:01:50 yep Sep 03 02:01:58 i never really picked up in lisp/scheme very well .. Sep 03 02:02:14 if you're a C guy, I would understand why. Sep 03 02:02:33 js is so easy once you know scheme fairly well Sep 03 02:02:38 yep Sep 03 02:02:43 i would assume the reverse is true as well Sep 03 02:02:44 i write VHDL for a living now - which is even more ridiculous Sep 03 02:02:46 js IS SCHEME In C syntax. Sep 03 02:02:58 i go to northeastern right now,into course is in scheme. cuz of felleisen Sep 03 02:03:00 which is why it drives the Java programmers freaking insane. Sep 03 02:03:17 it was a really fun course, especially because of my professor (olin shivers) Sep 03 02:03:23 brb Sep 03 02:03:26 'cause they keep expecting it to have classes.... and it doesn't and it bothers them. Sep 03 02:05:18 jauderho: first rule of performance - get the functionality correct first, then profile, then optimise. Sep 03 02:05:38 rwhitby: nodnodnodnodnod Sep 03 02:05:42 oh I know =) just saying. Sep 03 02:06:50 jauderho: the "Updating", "Loading", "Parsing" is the profiling that is in place, and it's currently pointing at getting the info from the lists files in ipkg through ipkg, through the service java, through dbus, into the webOS app. Sep 03 02:07:18 that's a lot of indirection Sep 03 02:11:12 has anybody been able to save there own image to the mediaDB? Sep 03 02:23:05 Rick_home: got a sec? Sep 03 02:27:23 sure Sep 03 02:27:34 edektor: yes Sep 03 02:27:43 nebula: what can I help you with Sep 03 02:27:45 i've got a metronome app that i'm workin on, needs some tidying Sep 03 02:27:50 nodnod Sep 03 02:28:05 what's the issue? Sep 03 02:28:09 Rick_home: did you take image from the camera or get it from somewhere else? Sep 03 02:28:33 edektor: I'm not sure I understand what you're asking Sep 03 02:29:10 nebula what's the issue? Sep 03 02:29:23 like capture the image from the camera or like save it from the web to the pictures Sep 03 02:29:39 jauderho: yeah, that's probably why it's slow :-) - we're looking at how to remove at least one level Sep 03 02:30:08 Rick_home: pm, the sounds don't play, and the "beat" only flashes once. i'll show you the original source page. Sep 03 02:30:12 jauderho: the other three levels seem to be mandated by the webOS architecture Sep 03 02:30:49 so it seems (at least till a native SDK shows up) Sep 03 02:31:28 Rick_home: have you seen this? http://gizmodo.com/5351348/amazon-kindle-2-hacked-to-run-linux Sep 03 02:31:59 in theory you could have a service that handled all the book decode/uncompress part Sep 03 02:32:18 for the ereader app Sep 03 02:32:57 "We're not really sure what the practical applications of a Linux Kindle would be" uhh they must not understand linux or hackers Sep 03 02:33:20 lol Sep 03 02:33:36 anything to get rid of the HORRID shortcovers app Sep 03 02:33:37 If a toaster ran Linux I could make it practical Sep 03 02:33:42 UGH sucks so much. Sep 03 02:37:13 ok back to these scripts now Sep 03 02:37:46 off the top of anyone's head, what's a shell command to strip the 1st char of a string Sep 03 02:40:46 hrmm .. does the pre have sed installed ? Sep 03 02:40:57 echo 'string' | sed -e 's/.//' Sep 03 02:41:11 hello Sep 03 02:41:25 yea Sep 03 02:41:28 awk and sed Sep 03 02:41:35 are my best friends in postinst/prerm Sep 03 02:41:38 Haha Sep 03 02:41:45 sed 's/.\(.*\)/\1/' Sep 03 02:41:52 will strip the first character Sep 03 02:42:08 so will sed -e 's/.//' ^^ Sep 03 02:42:13 oh, i just saw that Sep 03 02:42:17 :D Sep 03 02:42:50 now explain yours to me Sep 03 02:42:57 ooh, an epaper device running linux? Sep 03 02:43:05 \1 is the first capture group .. which is in the first ()'s Sep 03 02:43:53 * atlanta looking at the warning destinal put on the pager nagger Sep 03 02:44:20 yello Sep 03 02:44:26 atlanta: it's not confirmed that pager nagger is totally responsible for that wiping incident, but it may be, and it at least caused a conflict Sep 03 02:44:41 I'd buy a kinda and put linux on it just so I could have steaming top output on e-paper, would only need to charge the thing once a month Sep 03 02:44:48 so there is a conflict with multiple reads to the sqlite Sep 03 02:44:48 ? Sep 03 02:45:04 atlanta: yeah, sqlite is single user (one process access) Sep 03 02:45:28 and it looks like in some cases Luna has the ability to freak out about its database and wipe and recreate it Sep 03 02:45:38 destinal: I feel so close Sep 03 02:46:01 the directfb-plugin stuff Sep 03 02:46:07 destinal: wtf is the sqlite on the phone programmed like that Sep 03 02:46:08 ? Sep 03 02:46:18 atlanta: well sqlite is single user period Sep 03 02:46:33 maybe i need some of your help if you have time Sep 03 02:46:35 atlanta: and Luna was designed to expect sole access to its own databases Sep 03 02:46:35 far as i knew sqlite did select locks just like mysql Sep 03 02:46:49 atlanta: no Sep 03 02:46:54 destinal: oh ok darn Sep 03 02:47:14 yea i believe when it puts the lock luna doesnt see the database and spaz Sep 03 02:47:26 like u said Sep 03 02:47:28 wierd Sep 03 02:47:37 /me thinks its time to read up on sqlite Sep 03 02:48:51 atlanta: it flock() or similar the whole file Sep 03 02:48:53 whats the diff between push and pop scene? Sep 03 02:49:06 and the conjecture (unproven) is that Luna considered a locked file to be corrupt Sep 03 02:49:29 shouldn't be hard to test but I haven't taken the time to Sep 03 02:50:24 destinal: oh ok yea im going to take time and check it out Sep 03 02:50:27 PreGame: you're kidding rigtht? Sep 03 02:50:27 at any rate, we really shouldn't have shell scripts in cron messing with back end db stuff, it's just not a good way to go Sep 03 02:50:32 that's sarcasm. Sep 03 02:50:35 destinal: the docs say it can do multi selects Sep 03 02:50:38 rwhitby, sorry to ding you... anyone ever get in touch with cpcrook? Sep 03 02:50:39 just not inserts Sep 03 02:50:46 zsoc: not that I know of Sep 03 02:51:27 atlanta: pager nagger should be done in a mojo app, really Sep 03 02:51:40 destinal: indeed Sep 03 02:51:46 but a cron script could call the mojo app .... :-) Sep 03 02:52:01 Rick_home: aaaaaaaaaaaaghghghghghhg! *jumps from building* Sep 03 02:52:24 oh, I guess I was on the ground anyway Sep 03 02:52:26 :P Sep 03 02:52:31 hehehehehehehehehehehehe Sep 03 02:52:38 destinal: isnt there a way to monitor text through a service call Sep 03 02:52:42 ""Pats des on the head"" Sep 03 02:54:05 atlanta: monitor text? Sep 03 02:55:03 I figure the thing to do is subscribe to whatever service delivers SMS Sep 03 02:55:15 destinal: yea thats what i mean Sep 03 02:55:15 then just go nuts whenever you get one Sep 03 02:55:37 destinal: i thought i seen a subscribe code for something like that Sep 03 02:55:49 it'll probably require a com.palm namespace Sep 03 02:55:54 but not a big deal I guess Sep 03 02:56:39 you need that anyway for fine-grained control over vibration Sep 03 02:57:05 and then of course the LED service could let you have fun with LED alerting at the same time, if anyone cares about that feature Sep 03 02:57:20 I don't, personally, alarm and vibrate are what I want Sep 03 02:57:25 Who's in charge of the webosinternals twitter? Sep 03 02:58:48 can't you patch the messaging app rather than monitoring SMS through service calls? Sep 03 02:59:04 zsoc: a few people. Sep 03 02:59:11 egaudet: that would work Sep 03 02:59:13 Templarian, ok then :) just curious. Sep 03 02:59:31 zsoc: if you have really important news post it in here and it might go up. Sep 03 02:59:38 rwhitby, is there a quick way to 'undo' staging/compiling done by optware, or should i just rm -rf the dirs? Sep 03 02:59:48 Templarian, er, I wanted to know just _in case_ I had some really important news ;) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Sep 03 02:59:57 2009