**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 05 02:59:58 2009
Sep 05 03:00:05 <bpadalino> you can pass novaterm a string to help figure out which device you want to connect to
Sep 05 03:00:23 <bpadalino> castle = phone, qemu = emulator
Sep 05 03:00:23 <robo45h> I bet that's it. I used:  novacom -t open tty://
Sep 05 03:00:31 <robo45h> Yem. Emu.
Sep 05 03:00:57 <robo45h> What's the connect string for the phone via USB?
Sep 05 03:01:10 <bpadalino> novacom -h to get instructions
Sep 05 03:01:16 <bpadalino> i think there may be a list argument ?
Sep 05 03:01:21 <bpadalino> to list which available connections there are
Sep 05 03:01:28 <jauderho> that's a fairly sizable diff
Sep 05 03:01:41 <bpadalino> jauderho: looks like a lot of language stuff ..
Sep 05 03:01:57 <jauderho> no that much lang stuff
Sep 05 03:01:58 <bpadalino> but indeed lots of changes for a simple 0.1 update
Sep 05 03:02:07 <jauderho> more removing a lot of development code
Sep 05 03:02:10 <jauderho> and test utils
Sep 05 03:02:31 <Rick_home> Only in 1.2.0-0830: /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs/etc/event.d/LunaDownloadMgr
Sep 05 03:02:32 <jauderho> kind of wish they would leave that in or at least on the SDK side to test/learn
Sep 05 03:05:13 <bpadalino> there's plenty here to learn from, that's for sure
Sep 05 03:05:44 <bpadalino> Only in 1.2.0-0830: /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.contacts/app/views/list/send-contact-popup.html - neat
Sep 05 03:06:20 <bpadalino> new app: Only in 1.2.0-0830: /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.crotest - wonder what it does!
Sep 05 03:06:29 <MW-> hello everyone
Sep 05 03:07:17 <robo45h> Wow. I have no clue how to novacom into the phone vs. the emu. -h doesn't give a useful list of devices.
Sep 05 03:07:59 <bpadalino> what does novacom -l show ?
Sep 05 03:08:25 <robo45h> 56073 75c15c06f5211ba794d6ec391f9b2b59649b7a94 tcp emulator
Sep 05 03:09:16 <bpadalino> so just the emulator ?
Sep 05 03:09:17 <bpadalino> no castle ?
Sep 05 03:09:26 <robo45h> right.
Sep 05 03:09:34 <bpadalino> so you don't have the phone connected ?
Sep 05 03:09:49 <bpadalino> and in devmode ?
Sep 05 03:10:16 <robo45h> I do have it connected and I think I put it in devmode. How can I check if it's in devmode?
Sep 05 03:10:20 <MW-> bpadalino: I'm running the crotest program now.  It's letting you do automatic testing or manual testing of stuff
Sep 05 03:10:34 <bpadalino> MW, neat - what type of stuff ?
Sep 05 03:10:49 <MW-> "hardware buttons, Touch sensors, Screen, Audio,Power, GPS"
Sep 05 03:10:56 <bpadalino> robo, type the devmode code and see if ti says it's still in dev mode
Sep 05 03:11:08 <bpadalino> i am not sure if it's still upupdowndown or if it changed :(
Sep 05 03:11:14 <bpadalino> MW, neat!
Sep 05 03:11:18 <MW-> I just ran it with luna-send
Sep 05 03:12:19 <MW-> interesting there is a "Send Results" button
Sep 05 03:12:38 <MW-> It just said "The results were sent to Customer Service."
Sep 05 03:12:44 <MW-> Ah well
Sep 05 03:12:49 <robo45h> Well, I'm still on 1.1.0 so devemode shouldn't have changed. I didn't know 1.2 was out
Sep 05 03:12:54 <Templarian> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Template:Tux what does the far right one look like without rolling over it.
Sep 05 03:12:59 <bpadalino> it isn't out for real - just leaked ..
Sep 05 03:13:04 <robo45h> figured that
Sep 05 03:13:27 <bpadalino> ah
Sep 05 03:15:58 <Ikyo> I get to have some fun now :)
Sep 05 03:16:12 <MW-> It seems to be running a lot better in 1.2 but could be imagination
Sep 05 03:16:21 <v3ritas> Anyone here try out 1.2 & have any issues?
Sep 05 03:16:25 <bpadalino> phone looks like it got a lot of work as well ?
Sep 05 03:16:35 <bpadalino> MW, is there any big difference with the dialer ?
Sep 05 03:16:36 <MW-> no issues yet but I disabled the UpdateDaemon right away
Sep 05 03:16:59 <robo45h> The devmode app shows a slider with the word ON visible, which I believe means I'm in devmode (those webos sliders are confusing to me)
Sep 05 03:17:08 <MW-> the volume was lower on dialing digits... it shows the number in addition to just "Mobile, or Home"
Sep 05 03:17:16 <MW-> There was no nasty "Beeeeeeeeep" when I ended a call
Sep 05 03:17:18 <v3ritas> MW-: Thanks for the reply.  Just being able to save images in the browser makes me want to try 1.2, but i'm a bit hesitant because i dont want to mess it up =
Sep 05 03:17:35 <Ikyo> Did they fix the notification tone issue?
Sep 05 03:17:47 <MW-> I don't know.  Let me make a call and test myself
Sep 05 03:17:50 <MW-> text
Sep 05 03:18:24 <Decimation> ;)
Sep 05 03:18:33 <MW-> yes
Sep 05 03:18:35 <MW-> it was totally super quiet
Sep 05 03:18:56 <MW-> Barely noticable in your ear while on the call and I had the volume on max
Sep 05 03:19:08 <Ikyo> how about different tones for SMS?
Sep 05 03:19:40 <MW-> Nope
Sep 05 03:19:56 <bpadalino> init framework went from 191 -> 200 .. neat
Sep 05 03:20:13 <Ikyo> well I will continue to work on that patch then....got my new server tonight, but couldn't get extra RAM for it.
Sep 05 03:20:39 <bpadalino> Only in 1.2.0-0830: /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs/usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/com.palm.oddService.service - odd indeed!!
Sep 05 03:20:44 <robo45h> bp -- fiddled with the usb cable and I see castle now. Duh. how many times in my life has it been the cable?
Sep 05 03:20:59 <bpadalino> always physical layer
Sep 05 03:20:59 <bpadalino> :)
Sep 05 03:21:59 <MW-> Lots of code changed a bit... adds a semicoln in a lot of places where there wasn't any before ..
Sep 05 03:22:31 <Ikyo> thank god they are cleaning code up
Sep 05 03:22:32 <robo45h> OK... next question... novacom'd into the phone. How come "vi" doesn't work right? It's like the wrong TERM setting or something
Sep 05 03:23:01 <bpadalino> no idea robo - sorry :(
Sep 05 03:23:10 <jauderho> Sadly, the @Palm #Pre browser is still missing features compared to iPhone. Compare http://bit.ly/h9w42 vs http://bit.ly/IycoJ
Sep 05 03:23:12 <bpadalino> it works well for me
Sep 05 03:23:51 <MW-> yeah I can see a lot of lceaned up code
Sep 05 03:24:03 <robo45h> bp: Really? You're using novacom to connect and it works fine? Hmmm. I get esc sequences and it doesn't paint correctly.
Sep 05 03:24:08 <MW-> robo: are you using it with putty?
Sep 05 03:24:14 <MW-> or just the cmd line ?
Sep 05 03:24:24 <robo45h> Not using putty. Using novacom
Sep 05 03:24:42 <MW-> oh.. yeah it never worked right for me in there..
Sep 05 03:24:56 <bpadalino> jauderho, what are the importance of the things missing from the pre browser ?
Sep 05 03:25:00 <robo45h> So I should install putty and use that instead?
Sep 05 03:25:05 <BsCaBl> um, so palm battery died, plugging it in gives me a big, battery symbol, how do i get the thing to turn back on, i was in the middle of a VERY important convo.. help please :(
Sep 05 03:25:09 <MW-> once you have ssh installed, yeah
Sep 05 03:25:24 <jauderho> bpadalino: look at steve's site, it's pretty informative.
Sep 05 03:25:24 <Templarian> BsCaBl: you can't.
Sep 05 03:25:29 <MW-> BsCaBl: wait for the battery to charge..about 15 minutes
Sep 05 03:25:37 <nebula> anyone familiar with the mojo calls to play wav's within an app?
Sep 05 03:25:38 <jauderho> run through it with a standard browser.
Sep 05 03:25:39 <BsCaBl> thats it, okay, thanks! :D
Sep 05 03:25:56 <robo45h> MW thanks...
Sep 05 03:26:06 <robo45h> bp: thanks
Sep 05 03:27:08 <BsCaBl> why did it give me approx 2 dsecod sto plug in and then go to so dead it wont power on? :(
Sep 05 03:27:21 <jauderho> bpadalino:  there are some basic features missing from the pre browser such as the ability to cache a redir (which means having to take another trip out to the server if you get a 302/301)
Sep 05 03:27:25 <MW-> the battery is just too low
Sep 05 03:27:38 <bpadalino> interesting
Sep 05 03:28:12 <jauderho> also looks like the JS loads serial instead of parallel
Sep 05 03:28:13 <bpadalino> no browser seems to support || CSS -> JS .. whatever that means
Sep 05 03:28:19 <jauderho> which will like to be a biggie
Sep 05 03:28:25 <bpadalino> oh, || is parallel script loading ?
Sep 05 03:28:32 <jauderho> bpadalino:  not true
Sep 05 03:28:44 <jauderho> firefox 3.6alpha2 passes all tests now
Sep 05 03:28:52 <bpadalino> oh ..
Sep 05 03:28:56 <bpadalino> i was looking at: http://stevesouders.com/ua/report.php?v=0
Sep 05 03:29:15 <jauderho> || CSS -> JS is the whole CSS blocks when it bumps into JS thing
Sep 05 03:29:19 <Eguy> Evening good people of webos-internals
Sep 05 03:29:42 <jauderho> what this means is "supposedly ff3.6 will load css and js in parallel"
Sep 05 03:29:59 <bpadalino> ah
Sep 05 03:30:33 <bpadalino> on a single core system, does it matter if it's done in parallel or serially ?
Sep 05 03:30:44 <lmorchard> It's not CPU blocked, it's network blocked
Sep 05 03:30:50 <Ikyo> Has anyone heard about DDR3 memory being in short supply?
Sep 05 03:30:58 <bpadalino> OH - you mean fetching css and js in parallel
Sep 05 03:31:02 <jauderho> what is strange is that different versions of the pre browser seems to gain/lose features.
Sep 05 03:31:11 <bpadalino> that is a little weird
Sep 05 03:31:33 <jauderho> it's not a single core/vs multi-core issue. it's a matter of how quickly you can get the resources to render.
Sep 05 03:31:37 <lmorchard> Loading CSS / JS in parallel is tricky.  Need to be sure of dependencies & etc
Sep 05 03:31:56 <jauderho> lmorchard: agreed. I have yet to see ho ff3.6 does it.
Sep 05 03:32:01 <bpadalino> does webkit support that is really the main question, right ?
Sep 05 03:32:18 <lmorchard> Yeah, I'm not sure either... there were a bunch of intern presentations on it, but I missed it :/
Sep 05 03:32:20 <jauderho> the pre also limits to 10-11 connections
Sep 05 03:32:35 <jauderho> vs 60 for the iphone
Sep 05 03:32:49 <bpadalino> that is strange indeed
Sep 05 03:33:37 <bpadalino> do web servers actually allow 60 connections from the same host ?
Sep 05 03:33:53 <rwhitby> jauderho: so is there a real problem with ipkgservice 0.8.2 ?
Sep 05 03:33:57 <bpadalino> oh, conns/host is different
Sep 05 03:33:58 <bpadalino> i see
Sep 05 03:34:14 <jauderho> and from when I looked at the kernel, recycle conns was not set
Sep 05 03:34:31 <rwhitby> jauderho: or was your hang on 0.8.0 ?
Sep 05 03:34:32 <jauderho> rwhitby: no afaik. I was on 0.8.0.
Sep 05 03:34:45 <rwhitby> jauderho: excellent - thanks for following up.
Sep 05 03:34:45 <jauderho> rwhitby: seems to work now for me. i will continue to monitor
Sep 05 03:36:17 <jauderho> e.g. et.ipv4.tcp_tw_reuse = 1
Sep 05 03:36:17 <jauderho> net.ipv4.tcp_tw_recycle = 1
Sep 05 03:36:17 <jauderho> et.ipv4.tcp_tw_reuse = 1
Sep 05 03:36:18 <jauderho> net.ipv4.tcp_tw_recycle = 1
Sep 05 03:36:28 <jauderho> oops sorry about double paste
Sep 05 03:37:20 <bpadalino> so it is using it ?
Sep 05 03:37:27 <jauderho> it is not
Sep 05 03:37:31 <bpadalino> oh
Sep 05 03:37:41 <bpadalino> suggest it up
Sep 05 03:37:41 <jauderho> thats from my linux box. just illustrating the params
Sep 05 03:37:45 <bpadalino> gotcha
Sep 05 03:38:13 <jauderho> ah-hah
Sep 05 03:38:19 <jauderho> another clue in the puzzle
Sep 05 03:38:31 <jauderho> looks like 1.2 is still using webkit 3.2.1
Sep 05 03:38:39 <jauderho> BUT there are some other changes.
Sep 05 03:38:44 <jauderho> see http://stevesouders.com/ua/report.php?v=det&pb=iPhone+3.1
Sep 05 03:38:55 <Ikyo> Anyone use firewire800?
Sep 05 03:38:56 <jauderho> scroll to the right and look at the user agent string
Sep 05 03:39:05 <tlp> sweet, 1.2 reportedly has regular copy and paste
Sep 05 03:39:25 <jauderho> 7C116a vs 7C106c (1.1)
Sep 05 03:39:39 <jauderho> maybe that means a newer v8 engine
Sep 05 03:40:44 <bpadalino> those are iphone vers ?
Sep 05 03:40:52 <bpadalino> pre stays at 525.27.1
Sep 05 03:40:57 <jauderho> no
Sep 05 03:41:09 <jauderho> it is part of the Mobile substring
Sep 05 03:41:21 <jauderho> probably a build number for palm
Sep 05 03:41:40 <jauderho> 525.27.1 is webkit 3.2.1
Sep 05 03:42:03 <jauderho> I mean 528.16
Sep 05 03:42:19 <bpadalino> 528.16 is in the iphone user agent ..
Sep 05 03:43:59 <theo> i keep seeing stuff about ledthrobber in some of the 1.2 files, in the defaultprefrences.txt file there is a refrence to ledthrobberenabled: false could this be the pulsing we have been asking for when you recieve a new message and the screen is off???
Sep 05 03:46:04 <bpadalino> possibly ?
Sep 05 03:46:10 <bpadalino> follow it
Sep 05 03:46:13 <bpadalino> see where it is
Sep 05 03:48:44 <theo> looks like the pre can also accept vcards now, not sure if it was doing that before or not
Sep 05 03:49:01 <jauderho> theo: set it to true and see what happens
Sep 05 03:49:27 <theo> once i flash to it i will
Sep 05 03:49:45 <theo> does anyone have 1.2 flashed that might want to test this out??
Sep 05 03:49:53 <MW-> what file is it in, theo?
Sep 05 03:49:56 <MW-> I'll check
Sep 05 03:50:42 <theo> etc\palm\defaultPreferences.txt
Sep 05 03:50:52 <tlp> rwhitby: whoa, didn't realize you were in .au and lacked a Pre
Sep 05 03:51:08 <rwhitby> sadly, that's the situation.
Sep 05 03:51:22 <bpadalino> but every mention of a gsm pre makes rwhitby happier
Sep 05 03:51:27 <jauderho> rwhitby is a machine with the emulator =)
Sep 05 03:51:36 <jauderho> GSM PRE!
Sep 05 03:51:42 <jauderho> see happy rwhitby
Sep 05 03:51:46 <theo> 1.2 has all the photos of sim cards and other gsm pre goodies
Sep 05 03:51:47 <MW-> Ok, I'm restarting, theo
Sep 05 03:52:02 <MW-> It's "true" now
Sep 05 03:52:03 <theo> mw: awesome, lets hope it does something
Sep 05 03:52:08 <psykoz> so did we find out if 1.2 is truly out?
Sep 05 03:52:12 <rwhitby> I'm a bit worried that when I first lay my hands on a real device I'll say "eww - that just feels wrong" and then have to go buy something else ...
Sep 05 03:52:27 <bpadalino> quite possible rwhitby
Sep 05 03:52:31 <theo> lol... lets hope that doesnt happen
Sep 05 03:52:59 <rwhitby> meh - it won't affect the community much - I don't do much around here anyway ...
Sep 05 03:52:59 <bpadalino> if we see rwhitby /part this channel once the pre comes out in .au - we will know his verdict
Sep 05 03:53:13 <jauderho> rwhitby: well the oreo thing is a bit offputting.
Sep 05 03:53:23 <jauderho> I was running around trying to find a hook awl today
Sep 05 03:54:10 <theo> mw: are you sending yourself a message with the screen off to see if you get a pulse
Sep 05 03:54:34 <MW-> It just restarted
Sep 05 03:54:35 <MW-> Sending now
Sep 05 03:55:04 <MW-> Waiting for it to re-shut off the screen (I'm ignoring it) and we'll see what the led does
Sep 05 03:55:24 <MW-> Nothing yet, though
Sep 05 03:56:08 <MW-> yeah doesn't seem to be doing anything.
Sep 05 03:56:34 <jauderho> it is a fingerprint magnet tho
Sep 05 03:56:42 <MW-> Oh.. I think I notice a difference..
Sep 05 03:56:48 <theo> aaahhh, i had my hopes up.... let me check something real quick
Sep 05 03:56:53 <theo> really what is it??
Sep 05 03:57:01 <MW-> I'm not sure if it was that way before... is it supposed to light up when you flick up to get the launcher?
Sep 05 03:57:13 <MW-> all 3 LEDs light up at the same time and then turn off
Sep 05 03:57:25 <bpadalino> yeah - that happened before
Sep 05 03:57:28 <theo> mine is doing that
Sep 05 03:57:39 <MW-> hmm.. nothing I can notice then
Sep 05 03:58:12 <MW-> let's see if we can find where else LEDThrobberEnabled is
Sep 05 03:59:03 <Ikyo> What is the link to get it and I will see if I can't find the file
Sep 05 03:59:52 <jauderho> off-topic: has anyone else watched "defying gravity"?
Sep 05 04:00:04 <theo> give me a second i need to find it again
Sep 05 04:00:22 <theo> http://megaupload.com/?d=3TH1CAKN
Sep 05 04:00:26 <theo> thats it
Sep 05 04:01:09 <Ikyo> ty
Sep 05 04:01:15 <theo> np
Sep 05 04:02:00 <Ikyo> I will see about loading all of the files up in BBEdit then doing a massfind
Sep 05 04:02:18 <bpadalino> grep works well
Sep 05 04:02:46 <theo> yeah the program im using to compare files does not have a mass find builtin
Sep 05 04:03:01 <Ikyo> yeah, but I am going to rip the jar apart and not install it
Sep 05 04:03:31 <theo> thats what ive done so far, there are a lot of changed added and deleted files compared to 1.1
Sep 05 04:04:04 <Ikyo> Wondering if they have released it to Sprint engineers yet for testing
Sep 05 04:05:23 <theo> possibly, but i pretty sure this is not complete yet so who knows
Sep 05 04:05:28 <Ikyo> I so hope 10.6 Server doesn't take much Ram
Sep 05 04:08:32 <theo> well they have added a way to remove apps from the catalog and the handset, file called apprevokedalert_scene.html shows this "Palm had to delete this application from the App Catalog and your device. If you paid for this app, your money will be refunded. OK"
Sep 05 04:08:45 <kesne_> Anyone here know how to use SetTimeout in an app?
Sep 05 04:08:53 <theo> however still fishing for more info on the ledthrobber
Sep 05 04:08:59 <PreGame> yep
Sep 05 04:09:20 <PreGame> window.setTimeout(function,1000);
Sep 05 04:09:48 <MW-> I'm grepping the entire device, but it's being slow
Sep 05 04:10:11 <rwhitby> Review of Preware: http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/review-preware-by-webos-internals-an-advanced
Sep 05 04:11:21 <theo> mw: it only has 10,000 plus files to look at... i would imagine it might take a second or 2
Sep 05 04:12:28 <bpadalino> can the config lines scroll instead of going to the next line - it's a little ambiguous, isn'tit ?
Sep 05 04:13:11 <rwhitby> theo: you know about his page, right? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/WebOS_Doctor_version_1.2.0-0830
Sep 05 04:14:14 <theo> did not, thanks you
Sep 05 04:14:23 <PreGame> do they make palm services public in 1.2?  so you don't have to name your apps com.palm?
Sep 05 04:18:00 <Ikyo> ledthrob returns nothing
Sep 05 04:18:04 <Ikyo> what is the text file name?
Sep 05 04:18:15 <freakout> com.palm.app.screenlock - is that referring to keyguard or the proximity sensor?
Sep 05 04:18:46 <theo> etc\palm\defaultPreferences.txt
Sep 05 04:18:47 <MW-> my grep is still going
Sep 05 04:19:31 <Ikyo> yeah, I am doing it on my desktop
Sep 05 04:19:54 <theo> i also have it running on the desktop
Sep 05 04:20:14 <Ikyo> ./usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/controllers/securityconfig-assistant.js
Sep 05 04:20:29 <Ikyo> ./usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/models/SystemService.js
Sep 05 04:20:43 <theo> im looking at those files too
Sep 05 04:20:54 <psykoz> anyone else get annoyed with their f-key nub (love how palm put the nub on the f-key), anyway just razorbladed mine off, Bobbit style...
Sep 05 04:20:55 <Ikyo> parameters: {keys:["showAlertsWhenLocked","sysUiEnableNextPrevGestures","LEDThrobberEnabled","onDeviceDemoRunning"]},
Sep 05 04:21:42 <freakout> (never mind!)
Sep 05 04:21:43 <psykoz> my f-key can no longer f my thumb :)
Sep 05 04:22:03 <MW-> did you see this one
Sep 05 04:22:07 <MW-> ledThrobberToggleModel: {
Sep 05 04:22:07 <MW->                  value: false,
Sep 05 04:22:07 <MW->         },
Sep 05 04:22:12 <theo> do you see in securityconfig-assistant it states //Mojo.Event.listen($('blinkAlerts'),'mojo-property-change', this.toggleLEDThrobber.bindAsEventListener(this)) , notice the "blinkalerts
Sep 05 04:23:01 <MW-> yeah .. could uncomment and see what happens ..
Sep 05 04:23:07 <Ikyo> all pertain to the screenlockkkk
Sep 05 04:25:02 <theo> mw: changing all false values to true might just work
Sep 05 04:25:23 <MW-> I uncommented...rebooting.gonna see what happens.
Sep 05 04:25:35 <theo> have my fingers crossed
Sep 05 04:25:52 <theo> this would be great
Sep 05 04:30:13 <MW-> rebooting again
Sep 05 04:30:40 <theo> can you tell a difference in reboot time with 1.2?
Sep 05 04:30:46 <MW-> no but I never did it often
Sep 05 04:30:54 <Ikyo> Sometimes I do stuff so ass backwards
Sep 05 04:31:03 <theo> lol... such as?
Sep 05 04:31:08 <MW-> I forgot to change it to true when I first restarted
Sep 05 04:31:10 <MW-> but I had it uncommented
Sep 05 04:31:57 <Ikyo> I just got a new machine that I am going to use as my server instead of the bigger machine....more like I am too lazy to move stuff over
Sep 05 04:32:34 <theo> lkyo: lol, file transfers aren't always plesent
Sep 05 04:32:34 <Ikyo> I use it for a media server in the bedroom and have like 90 HD movies on it.
Sep 05 04:32:51 <MW-> There are som new errors I think I see in /var/log/messages I don't recall before 1.2
Sep 05 04:32:57 <rwhitby> has anyone running 1.2 tested whether the app limit has been fixed?
Sep 05 04:32:58 <Ikyo> 90 movies at around 7 gigs each
Sep 05 04:33:29 <Ikyo> then I have to move the application preferences over....it is bad enough having to redo my music
Sep 05 04:33:54 <MW-> No blinking yet that I can see...
Sep 05 04:34:00 <PreGame> also check if you can use palms services in applications that don't start with an id of com.palm
Sep 05 04:34:18 <theo> app pref are a pita
Sep 05 04:35:42 <theo> mw: that folder is empty in the expanded jar file, so i cant see anything new or old
Sep 05 04:36:21 <MW-> yeah I don't have any blinking LED that I can notice yet
Sep 05 04:36:38 <MW-> Except.. for when I hit the power/lock button
Sep 05 04:36:42 <MW-> all 3 LEDs blink for a split second
Sep 05 04:36:46 <MW-> it could have been that way before, though
Sep 05 04:37:15 <theo> mw: something tells me that everything needed for this is not there yet
Sep 05 04:37:31 <theo> mw: that doesnt happen when i press the power button
Sep 05 04:37:46 <MW-> only TO lock not to unlock
Sep 05 04:38:18 <theo> yeah they never flash
Sep 05 04:38:22 <MW-> actually I just realized, it's not even locking at all
Sep 05 04:38:53 <theo> uh oh
Sep 05 04:39:16 <Ikyo> okay, try this
Sep 05 04:39:29 <Ikyo> go into the config for screenlock
Sep 05 04:39:42 <Ikyo> then go into the security config section
Sep 05 04:39:57 <Ikyo> see if you have a toggle for blinkalerts
Sep 05 04:40:05 <MW-> it's messed up
Sep 05 04:40:08 <MW-> there's no more slider for Brightness
Sep 05 04:40:16 <MW-> and under "Secure Unlock" there's no options
Sep 05 04:40:37 <MW-> yeah none of it is is responding to anything
Sep 05 04:41:01 <MW-> going to put back the backup
Sep 05 04:41:13 <theo> was getting ready to say
Sep 05 04:41:14 <theo> that
Sep 05 04:41:29 <oil> rwhitby you saw my problem?
Sep 05 04:42:05 <MW-> I will try just putting the options to true now without uncommented the other code and see what happens.
Sep 05 04:42:34 <destinal> lol, you sent results to customer service, like, with your name on them?
Sep 05 04:43:04 <MW-> destinal: I did by accident in the new test app
Sep 05 04:43:53 <destinal> bpadalino: lol, oddservice?  I missed that
Sep 05 04:46:42 <theo> the best thing about this ledthrobber is that it shows that they really are listening...lol
Sep 05 04:47:53 <destinal> theo: well, depending on what it actually is, right?
Sep 05 04:48:06 <theo> good point,
Sep 05 04:48:43 <theo> keeping my hopes up, everything i have seen in the files points to blinkingalerts\
Sep 05 04:49:15 <MW-> I am still looking through it to get it, theo
Sep 05 04:49:39 <theo> speaking of that, im going to do a search for blinking alerts and see what i find
Sep 05 04:50:49 <rwhitby> oil: couldn't work out what was happening.  do you have code I can try?
Sep 05 04:52:04 <theo> oops blink, not blinking
Sep 05 04:57:01 <theo> lkyo: have you looked in the securityconfig-scene.html it show the option for blinking alerts, i think you were on to something with checking in the screen settings
Sep 05 04:57:41 <theo> <!--<div class="palm-info-text single" x-mojo-loc=''>           The gesture area blinks when new notifications arrive.      </div>-->
Sep 05 04:58:27 <MW-> what file was that, theo
Sep 05 04:58:51 <theo> just a sec
Sep 05 04:59:18 <theo> usr\palm\applications\com.palm.app.screenlock\app\views\securityconfig\securityconfig-scene.html
Sep 05 04:59:23 <MW-> thnx
Sep 05 04:59:45 <theo> maybe if we remove the <!-- it will enable that option in the settings
Sep 05 04:59:56 <MW-> I'm messing around with some code.. it's missing some in the program
Sep 05 05:00:29 <theo> well at least we know what it is now... "The gesture area blinks when new notifications arrive":
Sep 05 05:01:47 <MW-> I just found another area of commented code
Sep 05 05:02:09 <theo> same file or a different one??
Sep 05 05:02:12 <MW-> diff
Sep 05 05:02:26 <theo> ?
Sep 05 05:02:34 <MW-> checking to see if it is'd efined or not
Sep 05 05:02:38 <MW-> line 252
Sep 05 05:03:34 <theo> inside the securityconfig-assistant.js file, right?
Sep 05 05:03:38 <MW-> es
Sep 05 05:03:39 <MW-> yes
Sep 05 05:08:35 <theo> mw: have you found anything else
Sep 05 05:08:49 <MW-> I am restarting.. I just did osmething
Sep 05 05:09:28 <MW-> I think it will be here in the menu in a sec
Sep 05 05:10:08 <theo> im going to assume you activated all the code that was not functional
Sep 05 05:10:09 <MW-> it was
Sep 05 05:10:11 <MW-> I just toggled it to on
Sep 05 05:10:12 <MW-> :)
Sep 05 05:10:16 <theo> ooooohhhhhhhhh
Sep 05 05:11:15 <MW-> it's working!
Sep 05 05:11:21 <MW-> The LED is glowing on and off
Sep 05 05:11:22 <freakout> MW: sweet!
Sep 05 05:11:25 <theo> sweet
Sep 05 05:11:30 <theo> i knew that was it
Sep 05 05:11:36 <theo> good job mw
Sep 05 05:12:00 <MW-> I am going to remove some code I added and see if it still works
Sep 05 05:12:21 <MW-> but the toggle works
Sep 05 05:12:27 <MW-> it's back off now by toggling to off
Sep 05 05:12:38 <theo> well there is one patch that we dont have to worry about applying any longer
Sep 05 05:13:06 <theo> i like how it has the toggle switch
Sep 05 05:13:40 <theo> ikyo: you were right about it being in the settings
Sep 05 05:13:47 <freakout> Theo, MW, I'm blogging this
Sep 05 05:14:00 <MW-> Sweet
Sep 05 05:14:08 <theo> great...which post are you putting it in??
Sep 05 05:14:18 <freakout> send me a  /msg with your real names if you want credit under them, or I'll jsut use your handles
Sep 05 05:14:32 <theo> theoottesen
Sep 05 05:14:32 <freakout> (or you can say 'em here if you prefer)
Sep 05 05:14:35 <freakout> Palm Infocenter
Sep 05 05:15:35 <MW-> Yeah it stil works without the code I had unnecessarily added
Sep 05 05:15:55 <theo> mw: i wonder why they had it disabled
Sep 05 05:16:44 <MW-> do you want to know all the lines I uncommented?
Sep 05 05:16:53 <theo> yeah that would be great
Sep 05 05:17:05 <MW-> I kept everything at false
Sep 05 05:17:17 <MW-> 54, 55
Sep 05 05:17:37 <MW-> 248-253
Sep 05 05:18:06 <MW-> and the <--div area in the index.html
Sep 05 05:18:09 <MW-> err
Sep 05 05:18:18 <MW-> securityconfig-scene.html
Sep 05 05:20:04 <theo> not sure what the div area is??
Sep 05 05:20:23 <MW-> it's on line
Sep 05 05:21:10 <MW-> 92 - 97
Sep 05 05:21:17 <MW-> you want to remove the starting <!-- on line 92
Sep 05 05:21:25 <MW-> and the ending --> on 97
Sep 05 05:21:40 <MW-> and again on 101 and 103
Sep 05 05:22:06 <freakout> MW, where is the toggle located?
Sep 05 05:22:09 <theo> thats odd, they are not there on the copy i have
Sep 05 05:22:15 <freakout> The screen & lock settings?
Sep 05 05:22:24 <MW-> yes do you want a screen shot
Sep 05 05:22:24 <MW-> ?
Sep 05 05:22:28 <freakout> oooo!
Sep 05 05:22:32 <freakout> yes please :D
Sep 05 05:22:34 <MW-> one sec
Sep 05 05:22:53 <theo> do you want to post this on precentral with the screenshot?
Sep 05 05:24:58 <MW-> where should I send the screenshot to
Sep 05 05:25:34 <theo> shoot me one at theo.ottesen@gmail.com
Sep 05 05:25:46 <theo> thanks
Sep 05 05:25:48 <freakout> i msg'd my email addy MW
Sep 05 05:26:39 <MW-> Sent
Sep 05 05:27:35 * freakout tips hat
Sep 05 05:28:41 <MW-> where are you posting it to, freakout?
Sep 05 05:29:59 <freakout> Palm Infocenter, michael, i'm a writer there
Sep 05 05:30:14 <MW-> OK.. I'm adding it ot the PreCentral thread that's 30 pages too
Sep 05 05:30:17 <freakout> if you guys wanna post at Precentral i'm not gonna complain. (nor could I stop you :P )
Sep 05 05:30:59 <theo> lol
Sep 05 05:33:30 <MW-> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1871109&posted=1#post1871109
Sep 05 05:36:58 <theo> mw: awesome
Sep 05 05:37:04 <theo> what to uncover next
Sep 05 05:37:56 <oil> test 60 app limit
Sep 05 05:38:17 <theo> mw: how many apps do you have installed right now??
Sep 05 05:38:49 <theo> theres also the matter of weather or not it the amount of apps, or simply the space that is used
Sep 05 05:38:52 <MW-> not anywhere close to that many
Sep 05 05:38:56 <theo> lol
Sep 05 05:39:23 <theo> i know im getting ready to flash my phone to 1.2 and it'll take awhile to get to that number
Sep 05 05:39:32 <oil> just load up filecoaster or preload and start tapping install
Sep 05 05:39:43 <theo> oil: lol
Sep 05 05:41:00 <oil> doesnt matter what you install
Sep 05 05:41:04 <oil> just see if you eventually hit the limit
Sep 05 05:43:14 <MW-> The blinking LED is working for missing a call too.. just tested that
Sep 05 05:43:17 <MW-> Not just SMs
Sep 05 05:43:30 <theo> oooh that is sweet
Sep 05 05:43:35 <oil> hopefully it wont even need a patch
Sep 05 05:43:49 <oil> just somethinig they forgot to turn on in the leak
Sep 05 05:44:05 <MW-> they had to have it commented for a reason ..
Sep 05 05:44:05 <oil> i dont understand adding options that work, then commenting them
Sep 05 05:44:20 <oil> like the pages stuff for the launcher?
Sep 05 05:44:24 <oil> has ANYONE ran into a problem with it?
Sep 05 05:45:16 <MW-> I have no idea
Sep 05 05:45:18 <theo> i never had a problem with the pages
Sep 05 05:45:25 <theo> never heard of any either
Sep 05 05:47:24 <theo> mw: does it clear instantly after checking the message??
Sep 05 05:48:05 <MW-> It doesn't blink when youre using the phone
Sep 05 05:48:08 <MW-> only when it's locked
Sep 05 05:48:18 <MW-> I'm just using the phone for some other stuff right now and am actually amazed how much faster it is
Sep 05 05:48:24 <theo> that is perfect
Sep 05 05:48:43 <MW-> the universal search is pulling up a contact in < 1 sec and showingall the details and the AIM status
Sep 05 05:48:46 <oil> sure its not just because you had to restart to doctor?
Sep 05 05:48:47 <oil> xD
Sep 05 05:48:59 <MW-> I already have all the optware installed and ssh and 9 cards open
Sep 05 05:49:00 <oil> and no installed apps running in the background stealing processor power
Sep 05 05:49:03 <theo> yeah i was going to wait to flash but i think that is going to change
Sep 05 05:49:17 <MW-> and maybe 10-15 apps
Sep 05 05:49:21 <theo> wow, thats impressive
Sep 05 05:49:43 <MW-> and samba running too
Sep 05 05:50:05 <freakout> lol. Your Pre's battery must really *hate* you, MW
Sep 05 05:50:11 <MW-> It's at 100% :)
Sep 05 05:50:46 <theo> how long does the flash take?
Sep 05 05:50:53 <oil> HOURS
Sep 05 05:51:00 * oil really doesnt know
Sep 05 05:51:01 <oil> xD
Sep 05 05:51:08 <theo> god i hope not...lol
Sep 05 05:51:11 <MW-> 10-15min
Sep 05 05:51:26 <theo> its starting now so lets test it out
Sep 05 05:51:31 <chrisa> As excited as everyone is, it's probably not a good idea to install a build that isn't released. Since the web doctor was mistakenly uploaded with that image in the first place who knows if the build is even an accepted build
Sep 05 05:51:43 <MW-> just be sure to go into novacom right away and disable the updatedaemon
Sep 05 05:52:03 <theo> gotcha
Sep 05 05:52:20 <MW-> chrisa: you do have to think about the fact... why go through the effort of making a WebOS Doctor for an unstable build?
Sep 05 05:52:41 <chrisa> Build systems build pretty much everything all the time
Sep 05 05:53:19 <ameng1> destinal: do you know some software to display the raw  argb pixel data on linux?
Sep 05 05:53:20 <MW-> I don't know how their system works... but I wouldn't guess it would make an entire new Doctor for each build
Sep 05 05:54:05 <chrisa> Building a new doctor image isn't any different from building any other. Just shoving a new ramdisk into an existing framework
Sep 05 05:54:37 <destinal> well a new rootfs, but same difference
Sep 05 05:54:51 <chrisa> It's both
Sep 05 05:55:13 <chrisa> technically we could say rootfs and uImage
Sep 05 05:56:07 <destinal> right
Sep 05 05:56:13 * oil <<3's battles of technicality
Sep 05 05:57:33 <destinal> ameng1: I haven't heard of one
Sep 05 05:58:10 <destinal> ameng1: but it should be easy enough to write something that loads the data into a pixbuf / drawable in gdk
Sep 05 05:58:57 <destinal> are you trying to validate whether the data is getting copied over?
Sep 05 05:59:09 <ameng1> yeah
Sep 05 06:02:16 <ameng1> now just to see if dfb have rightly written the image data to its mem file. then i can change the way the plugin end reading it for debugging
Sep 05 06:05:13 <ameng1> do you set up the program and run on emulator?
Sep 05 06:32:52 <chrisa> rwhitby: you around?
Sep 05 06:34:48 <oil> maybe hes on his way home?
Sep 05 06:35:01 <oil> or
Sep 05 06:35:08 <oil> its saturday in australia
Sep 05 06:35:13 <oil> so hes probably not at work
Sep 05 06:35:13 <oil> lol
Sep 05 06:35:44 <theo> mw you still around??
Sep 05 06:38:16 <chrisa> I recall hearing people had written services for the bus, but I don't see any on the wiki
Sep 05 06:44:56 <ameng1> destinal: penguins on emulator, hahaha
Sep 05 06:45:10 <destinal> ameng1: congratulations!
Sep 05 06:45:19 <destinal> does it perform ok?
Sep 05 06:45:56 <destinal> reasonably decent speed, etc?
Sep 05 06:46:13 <ameng1> it seems the mmap does not work. i directly fread the mem file now
Sep 05 06:46:28 <ameng1> the speed on emulotor seems ok
Sep 05 06:47:10 <ameng1> i 'll look why mmap does not work , strange
Sep 05 06:48:09 <ameng1> mmap will fast than fread , i now just use a regular file as the mem file ,the speed seems ok, will change the regular file to a tmpfs file
Sep 05 06:49:01 <ameng1> and close all printf thing. hehe
Sep 05 06:49:55 <destinal> heh :)
Sep 05 06:50:49 <destinal> great, so you need to figure out the mmap thing, and then still handle input from the plugin?
Sep 05 06:51:21 <ameng1> yeah , you could help me with input thing on plugin end
Sep 05 07:38:46 <rwhitby> chrisa: here now
Sep 05 07:47:24 <chrisa> rwhitby: am I mistaken, or have people posted native services providing new calls to dbus for webos apps?
Sep 05 07:48:36 <destinal> chrisa: we've put up a bunch of java services and I think PuffTheMagic just got a working native binary one in c
Sep 05 07:48:51 <chrisa> Is his just linking normal dbus libraries?
Sep 05 07:48:54 <destinal> and yeah, lunaservices model, dbus, accessed from mojo apps
Sep 05 07:49:05 <destinal> chrisa: he's linking lunaservices
Sep 05 07:51:03 <destinal> it was based on checking out palm's libpurple-adapter code and reimplementing some missing headers that weren't included in that from scratch.
Sep 05 07:51:48 <DdAaDd> I dont see the network name on the PalmPre.. what should I do?
Sep 05 07:54:00 <rwhitby> chrisa: yep, as destinal said, a number in Java (just using the existing Palm classes) and one in C.
Sep 05 07:54:17 <rwhitby> chrisa: we are very careful not to redistribute any Palm code.
Sep 05 07:55:45 <rwhitby> chrisa: Preware, for example, uses a Package Manager Service, which is written in Java, and provides webOS apps with an API to talk to ipkg directly (including running postinst and prerm scripts with secure informed user consent to deter malware incorporated into installation scripts running as root)
Sep 05 07:55:48 <destinal> rwhitby: though we totally can redistribute the LGPL stuff  :)
Sep 05 07:55:55 <rwhitby> destinal: yep
Sep 05 07:56:10 <chrisa> rwhitby: it feels like you like to keep reminding me that you don't redistribute palm code
Sep 05 07:56:58 <rwhitby> chrisa: it's the one thing that Palm employees (not you) have specifically come here and told us not to do :-)
Sep 05 07:57:10 <chrisa> gotcha
Sep 05 07:58:32 <rwhitby> chrisa: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=blob;f=org/webosinternals/ipkgservice/IPKGService.java is one of the Java services.
Sep 05 07:58:58 <chrisa> I'm just curious to see how native stuff is coming along
Sep 05 07:59:13 <rwhitby> chrisa: http://git.preyourmind.org/?p=us.ryanhope.sysfsbatteryservice;a=blob;f=src/main is the C service.
Sep 05 07:59:50 <rwhitby> chrisa: the worst thing at the moment is that you have to restart java-serviceboot to get the new .jar file into the classpath when you install a new service.
Sep 05 08:00:15 <rwhitby> restarting java-serviceboot when installing a new package is like trying to change the tyres on a moving car ...
Sep 05 08:00:48 <destinal> (I've said, we should just reboot, but people don't want to wait that long)  :)
Sep 05 08:01:00 <rwhitby> C services will be much better - no need to restart the whole LSMessage infrastructure just to install a new service and launch it)
Sep 05 08:01:45 <rwhitby> chrisa: that last URL should be http://git.preyourmind.org/?p=us.ryanhope.sysfsbatteryservice;a=blob;f=src/main.c (I missed the .c off the end)
Sep 05 08:02:54 <destinal> rwhitby: hmm, don't see a COPYING there.  he did say it would be OSS, right?
Sep 05 08:03:13 <destinal> I see "all rights reserved" at the top
Sep 05 08:03:52 <rwhitby> destinal: http://git.preyourmind.org/?p=us.ryanhope.sysfsbatteryservice;a=tree
Sep 05 08:04:00 <destinal> ah, ok
Sep 05 08:07:41 <rwhitby> but yeah, we do need to go through and put proper notices on all our files ...
Sep 05 08:09:14 <oil> http://i25.tinypic.com/k2oco9.png
Sep 05 08:09:15 <oil> eh?
Sep 05 08:12:03 <rwhitby> oil: apart from the date being the 9th of May, 2009 it looks great.
Sep 05 08:13:01 <oil> you know
Sep 05 08:13:09 <chrisa> There are better ways to build the json response than he is doing
Sep 05 08:13:16 <chrisa> But otherwise, this looks about normal
Sep 05 08:13:26 <oil> when they release a phone in another country, ill go about making the dates look right xD
Sep 05 08:14:36 <oil> better as-in faster?
Sep 05 08:15:28 <TheBat> Arrrg. I still haven't gotten my Pre yet
Sep 05 08:15:44 <TheBat> The good news? it's only $189 without a contract for me
Sep 05 08:16:10 <rwhitby> chrisa: are you referring to the java service or the C service?
Sep 05 08:16:36 <chrisa> The C one
Sep 05 08:18:51 <TheBat> Anyone know about getting a Virtual host here on the IRC?
Sep 05 08:19:48 <rwhitby> we need to speed up the ipkgservice java one, probably by accessing the lists and status files directly, and will try passing the information unparsed up to the javascript to see whether we can remove a couple of layers of parsing and reparsing the same information.
Sep 05 08:22:49 * oil is willing to give it a shot
Sep 05 08:22:59 <oil> should be pretty easy with how i have things setup now
Sep 05 08:24:42 <rwhitby> theo: are you guys going to create a patch for the message notification ?
Sep 05 08:31:22 <theo> i would imagine so, havent talked to mw about it, but i will shoot him a pm in the morning, as of now its 430 in the am and i think i should sleep.
Sep 05 08:36:52 <oil> nonsense
Sep 05 08:36:54 <oil> call him up!
Sep 05 08:37:43 <theo> if anyone else would like to do this i can give out the instructions real quick
Sep 05 08:44:36 <theo> uncomment these lines in the file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/controllers/securityconfig-assistant.js 54, 55, 248-253  then go to the file /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.screenlock/app/views/securityconfig/securityconfig-scene.html and then remove the <!-- from line 92, and on 97  and the same thing on 101 and 103 run pkill LunaSysMgr through putty and once it comes back up the setting will be in the scre
Sep 05 08:45:06 <theo> and now i am off to bed, i will post that up tomorrow
Sep 05 08:49:54 <oil> so
Sep 05 08:50:17 <oil> grouping plugins, services, and "linux binaries" into one list/option
Sep 05 08:50:20 <oil> what should it be called?
Sep 05 08:55:29 <rwhitby> Support Programs ?
Sep 05 08:55:42 <oil> too long
Sep 05 08:55:49 <oil> "Available Support Progrms"
Sep 05 08:55:52 <oil> Programs*
Sep 05 08:55:54 <oil> i dont think itl fit
Sep 05 08:56:00 <rwhitby> Support Items
Sep 05 08:56:18 <rwhitby> Support Helpers?
Sep 05 08:56:24 <rwhitby> Dependencies ?
Sep 05 08:56:50 <rwhitby> Libraries ?
Sep 05 08:57:02 <oil> libraries would fit
Sep 05 08:57:14 <rwhitby> Support Utilities
Sep 05 08:57:35 <rwhitby> Applications and Libraries are two concepts that most users understand ...
Sep 05 08:58:25 <oil> ok
Sep 05 08:58:48 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic will hate it :-)
Sep 05 08:58:54 <oil> qwll
Sep 05 08:58:56 <oil> well*
Sep 05 08:58:57 <oil> thats a given
Sep 05 09:00:07 <rwhitby> "Unimportant Stuff" ;-)
Sep 05 09:00:21 <oil> that WILL piss him off
Sep 05 09:00:22 <oil> lol
Sep 05 09:03:33 <freakout> You may be giving users too much credit, rwhitby :P
Sep 05 09:04:29 <oil> well for now
Sep 05 09:04:52 <oil> since there isnt any dependency support
Sep 05 09:04:58 <oil> if they dont turn the option on to see them
Sep 05 09:05:03 <oil> they'll appear in the applications lists
Sep 05 09:24:40 <rwhitby> freakout: "tizzy" ?
Sep 05 09:25:14 <freakout> *minor* tizzy
Sep 05 09:25:29 <freakout> C'mon, you're not excited? :P
Sep 05 09:27:01 <freakout> my dictionary says "an excited state of agitation", hehe
Sep 05 09:27:22 <oil> where are you seeing tizzy?
Sep 05 09:27:22 <rwhitby> girls get into a tizzy, not manly webos-internals developers ;-)
Sep 05 09:27:33 <freakout> oil: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9889/pre-webos-12-brings-led-notifications-remote-app-removal/
Sep 05 09:27:34 <rwhitby> oil: check our press page :-)
Sep 05 09:27:50 <rwhitby> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Press_Room
Sep 05 09:27:53 <freakout> oo, we're being re-linked already? cool
Sep 05 09:28:13 <rwhitby> freakout: I put anything that my Google Alerts finds in there ...
Sep 05 09:28:33 <freakout> oh crap. bbl, my rice is boiling over
Sep 05 09:28:57 <chrisa> People always jump to the worst conclusions when they see something like remote app removal support
Sep 05 09:29:10 <chrisa> I may have to blame amazon for that now
Sep 05 09:30:29 <rwhitby> I'm assuming it's to delete Preware when the App Store download rates get too low ;-)
Sep 05 09:35:03 * rwhitby has no illusions about the miniscule imact that homebrew will have once the Palm App Catalog is in full force ... 
Sep 05 09:35:03 <rwhitby> ... impact ...
Sep 05 09:40:28 <freakout> chrisa, like I wrote in the article, i hope that Palm uses it for good and not evil
Sep 05 09:40:39 <freakout> And I've mailed their PR for official comment
Sep 05 09:41:20 <freakout> But the potential to have your own desires as a user overridden are still a bit disconcerting.
Sep 05 09:41:32 <freakout> No one likes to think they don't have control over their own computers
Sep 05 09:42:09 * oil bets someone will make a patch that disables it just like there is for the iphone
Sep 05 09:42:16 <oil> not that i condone such an act
Sep 05 09:42:18 <oil> xD
Sep 05 09:42:21 * freakout will be the first to alpha it for you ;)
Sep 05 09:42:54 <oil> freakout: i pushed all my changes to preware from this evening
Sep 05 09:42:59 <oil> feel free to play around with it
Sep 05 09:43:10 <oil> :)
Sep 05 09:43:22 <oil> but now, im going to sleep
Sep 05 09:43:27 <freakout> oo, funky. Will do after dinner, beer, and bath. waiting for my chilli to cook.
Sep 05 09:43:29 <rwhitby> night oil
Sep 05 09:43:31 <freakout> sleep tight oil!
Sep 05 10:02:47 <greg_roll> rwhitby: had a chance to look at IPKG Installer? Also have you setup a git for me?
Sep 05 10:06:48 <rwhitby> greg_roll: didn't get to that today yet
Sep 05 10:07:15 <rwhitby> greg_roll: all the 1.2 stuff has been a distraction ;-)
Sep 05 10:09:10 <rwhitby> greg_roll: can you please email me an openssh key, and a preferred username for git access ?
Sep 05 10:11:45 <jettero> you shouldn't need to do that with git... the coolest part about it is the lack of a central repo.  Just pull from eachother...
Sep 05 10:14:57 <rwhitby> jettero: that assumes that everyone can or wants to set up a publicly accessible repository
Sep 05 10:15:04 <jettero> not really
Sep 05 10:15:06 <rwhitby> for example, no-one is going to be able to git pull from my laptop ...
Sep 05 10:15:11 <jettero> they could just use github or gitorious
Sep 05 10:15:28 <jettero> in fact, on github, you could actually see a graphical representation of who did what and you can use the gui to organize
Sep 05 10:15:32 <rwhitby> or git.webos-internals.org, which is what I requested that information for ...
Sep 05 10:15:48 <jettero> there's nothing wrong with what you're doing.  I just think it misses one of git's coolest features
Sep 05 10:15:50 <rwhitby> github is not open source
Sep 05 10:15:56 <jettero> what?
Sep 05 10:16:10 <rwhitby> the source code that runs github is not open
Sep 05 10:16:15 <jettero> so?
Sep 05 10:16:42 <rwhitby> one needs to wonder why
Sep 05 10:16:57 <jettero> because it's a for profit company
Sep 05 10:17:11 <jettero> there's nothing to lose though.  every git checkout is a complete repo, so if you find you hate github, move
Sep 05 10:17:20 <greg_roll> Is there a quick help or doco on how to create a key? I'm on Windows BTW
Sep 05 10:17:52 <rwhitby> and how does that make it better than git.webos-internals.org then?
Sep 05 10:17:52 <jettero> many projects are hosted on github, a private repo, repo.or.cz etc... it really doesn't hurt to have like 10 central repos
Sep 05 10:18:10 <jettero> because you wouldn't need to do all this key adding.  you could just see what others wrote and choose to pull from it (or not)
Sep 05 10:18:33 <jettero> it's a whole new way to look at it
Sep 05 10:19:06 <jettero> I'm all done selling this though.  There's nothing wrong with what you're doing.  It's just  the old way is all
Sep 05 10:19:06 <rwhitby> it is an alternative project management method, yes.  but not the only one.
Sep 05 10:19:54 <rwhitby> jettero: no need to sell - pulling stuff is great when you have a set of lieutenants that all know how to use git expertly like Linus does
Sep 05 10:20:09 <jettero> that's just fud
Sep 05 10:20:40 <jettero> there's like a billion foss projects on github all using the new way: fork and pull requests
Sep 05 10:20:59 <jettero> that way anyone can write a patch.  they don't need special permission
Sep 05 10:21:34 <rwhitby> anyone can do the same with git.webos-internals.org - anyone can clone and put up the clone anywhere they like and send a pull request
Sep 05 10:21:40 <jettero> yes
Sep 05 10:21:45 <jettero> that's exactly my point
Sep 05 10:21:59 <jettero> no need to collect ssh keys from people liek that.  IT's the old svn/cvs way to do things
Sep 05 10:22:31 <jettero> github and gitorious (et all) just automate the process with visualization tools
Sep 05 10:22:35 <rwhitby> you keep trying to paint the two alternatives as one is bad and one is good ...
Sep 05 10:22:37 <jettero> (and free public hosting)
Sep 05 10:22:50 <jettero> Yes, I defintely think the new way is better
Sep 05 10:23:11 <jettero> which is why I brought it up.  I'd like to save you the headache of the key collection thing.  But it really isn't bad.
Sep 05 10:23:16 <jettero> it's just my opinion
Sep 05 10:23:36 <rwhitby> and it's a good opinion
Sep 05 10:23:37 <jettero> you have to try the new way to really feel it.  It's different
Sep 05 10:23:54 <rwhitby> I don't share the 100% one way and 0% the other way view ...
Sep 05 10:23:58 <jettero> I just wondered if you'd really participated in a foss project on something like github where you didn't need to be added first
Sep 05 10:24:09 <jettero> so I brought it up.
Sep 05 10:25:03 <rwhitby> here's the scenario - we have an autobuilder.  that autobuilder runs from a git repo.
Sep 05 10:25:41 <jettero> I'm all done dude.
Sep 05 10:26:33 <greg_roll> rwhitby: do I run ssh-keygen -t XXX to create the key for you?
Sep 05 10:27:36 <jettero> greg_roll: that would be correct, but only send the .pub part
Sep 05 10:28:31 <rwhitby> Unless we have a central repo which people can push to, then one of two things needs to happen.
Sep 05 10:28:31 <rwhitby> either (1) there needs to be a single person who is a point of failure who pulls the latest stuff to be built
Sep 05 10:28:31 <rwhitby> or (2) there needs to be some out-of-band method to tell the autobuilder what to pull
Sep 05 10:28:33 <rwhitby> we don't want (1) cause then there is a single point of failure, and one person going on holidays bottlenecks the whole community
Sep 05 10:28:34 <rwhitby> we don't want (2) cause eventually we want every developer to be able to cause an autobuilder run just by running git tag
Sep 05 10:29:08 <jettero> that definitely makes sense.
Sep 05 10:29:15 <jettero> the other beauty part of git is that you can do whatever you want
Sep 05 10:29:31 <jettero> are you doing the autobuild as a hook?
Sep 05 10:30:05 <rwhitby> sure, no probs.  just wanted to let you know the background so you don't think the choice is out of ignorance of the two alternate processes.
Sep 05 10:30:44 <jettero> not ignorance with the bad connotation mind you.  I was just trying to be helpful as I only *wondered* if you'd tried the new forknpull style...
Sep 05 10:30:59 <rwhitby> jettero: not yet - just polling every 15 mins at the moment
Sep 05 10:31:29 <rwhitby> jettero: it is true that I have not participated in the forknpull style other than kernel machine maintenance
Sep 05 10:31:30 <jettero> I use a commit hook on my bash-profile-repo to fix various things each time I push to it
Sep 05 10:31:53 <rwhitby> so it could well be that I've set the autobuild regime up to suit my prejudice :-)
Sep 05 10:31:57 <jettero> it is not difficult.  but with an autobuild cron might make more sense
Sep 05 10:32:27 <greg_roll> thanks jettero
Sep 05 10:32:37 <rwhitby> yeah, doing it every 15 means that the locking is much easier than doing it with a hook.  just see if the previous run is still going.
Sep 05 10:33:02 <rwhitby> I guess a hook could easily do that too, but then you'd need to queue the new build somehow
Sep 05 10:33:10 <jettero> well, you could do that from a hook too... and the hook could check to see if it's running too often or whatever.  But then you might get a stale commit where you dont' get a rebuild
Sep 05 10:33:53 <rwhitby> I'm sure it could be done.  I've just done things the lazy way and copied the infrastructure from the nslu2-linux.org project that I run.
Sep 05 10:34:17 <jettero> I have found with foss on github... if I fork and write a bunch of stuff... (the author doesn't even have to know); the author tends to review and pull.  The first time I did that was pure delight... so that's why I brought it up
Sep 05 10:34:45 <rwhitby> jettero: I do thing the forknpull style makes a lot of sense for individual open source apps.
Sep 05 10:34:56 <jettero> right, but not for this.
Sep 05 10:35:06 <jettero> unless you want a team of managers that just sit around reviewing pull requests
Sep 05 10:35:15 <rwhitby> yeah
Sep 05 10:36:36 <rwhitby> greg_roll: I'll set up the repo in about 2 hours time
Sep 05 10:36:51 * rwhitby bbl
Sep 05 10:37:00 <jettero> I really want to write a ton of webos code ... but I took on this freelance client so I could put some scratch together before school starts.
Sep 05 10:37:14 <jettero> it's kinda killing me to sit here working on docs when I have apps to write. :(
Sep 05 10:45:58 <greg_roll> rwhitby: thanks
Sep 05 10:51:30 <jettero> 10000k/{root}
Sep 05 10:51:57 <jettero> (that would be a vim command typed in the wrong window)
Sep 05 11:31:28 <greg_roll> does anyone know how to debug a luna-service? I'm writing one but getting the error "java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError". Nothing more :(
Sep 05 11:52:34 <rwhitby> greg_roll: you can write to stdout, and then run java-serviceboot manually to see the console output
Sep 05 12:05:31 <rwhitby> greg_roll: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/ipkg-installer.git;a=summary
Sep 05 12:05:49 <rwhitby> greg_roll: git clone git@git.webos-internals.org:tools/ipkg-installer.git
Sep 05 12:10:13 <greg_roll> rwhitby: thanks ill setup gtalk
Sep 05 12:16:11 <DesktopMa> which gsm bands does the Bell Pre support?
Sep 05 12:21:22 <rwhitby> DesktopMa: none.  it's CDMA
Sep 05 12:22:46 <DesktopMa> I'm not too well versed in wireless bands, would it work in europe?
Sep 05 12:26:22 <rwhitby> no
Sep 05 12:26:37 <DesktopMa> the Bell product page says 3G but I'm not sure if you can have 3G over cdma or how that works
Sep 05 12:26:53 <rwhitby> 3G is a marketing term
Sep 05 12:26:56 <tmzt> evdo
Sep 05 12:27:08 <rwhitby> The Pre is not yet UMTS.
Sep 05 12:27:22 <DesktopMa> ah right.
Sep 05 12:27:25 <tmzt> had no idea Bell had cdma neywork though
Sep 05 12:27:34 <tmzt> thoyght only telus did
Sep 05 12:30:10 <DesktopMa> seems like they do. "CDMA 850 and 1900, 1xRTT and EVDO highspeed mobile internet"
Sep 05 12:36:55 <freakout> jhoff80 posted a decent video of 1.2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cCJNcXfddE
Sep 05 12:43:27 <DesktopMa> has there been any more research on 3d drivers?
Sep 05 13:10:54 <Decimation> heh
Sep 05 13:11:00 <Decimation> well, messaging is go to support invitation
Sep 05 13:11:01 <Decimation> s
Sep 05 13:11:05 <Decimation> they have a lot set up
Sep 05 13:11:11 <Decimation> and there is a commented block that says
Sep 05 13:11:18 <Decimation> /This needs to be cleaned up when we start supporting invitations
Sep 05 13:16:01 <tmzt> Decimation: read the openpandora gp32x forums
Sep 05 13:16:35 <tmzt> sorry
Sep 05 13:16:40 <tmzt> DesktopMa:
Sep 05 13:36:53 <PuffTheMagic> DesktopMa: lol 3d drivers.....
Sep 05 13:36:58 <PuffTheMagic> DesktopMa: we need 2d first
Sep 05 13:47:05 <un_designer> hello precentral people :D
Sep 05 13:48:38 <PuffTheMagic> un_designer: im gonna pretend you didnt say that
Sep 05 13:49:24 <un_designer> ok hellow webos-internals people :-)
Sep 05 13:49:38 <mplspades> Hello everyone. :)
Sep 05 13:50:06 <un_designer> anyone seen egaudet (emoney_33) on precentral around?
Sep 05 13:50:17 <PuffTheMagic> yeah hes around he all the time
Sep 05 13:50:21 <PuffTheMagic> might be asleep right now though
Sep 05 13:50:26 <PuffTheMagic> i forget what tz he is
Sep 05 13:51:10 <un_designer> hm that's actually a good idea.. to include TZ info with people's nick on here and in the forum
Sep 05 13:51:29 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 13:51:44 <PuffTheMagic> yeah its hard keep track
Sep 05 13:52:59 <mplspades> well actually good morning... would anyone mind tossing me a bit of help? i've been kinda racking my mind with this.. issue.
Sep 05 13:53:39 <PuffTheMagic> mplspades: if your issue does not involves patches or modifying palm code i can/will try to help ;)
Sep 05 13:54:11 <mplspades> Well, not a patch exactly. more like the optware, and using ssh with putty.
Sep 05 13:54:30 <PuffTheMagic> oh
Sep 05 13:54:34 <PuffTheMagic> thats a legit questions
Sep 05 13:54:46 <PuffTheMagic> mplspades: whats the issue
Sep 05 13:54:54 <mplspades> How would I reset my username and pass?
Sep 05 13:55:09 <PuffTheMagic> the extra user you created?
Sep 05 13:55:13 <PuffTheMagic> or your root password
Sep 05 13:55:15 <PuffTheMagic> ?
Sep 05 13:55:31 <PuffTheMagic> and what do u mean reset a username
Sep 05 13:55:34 <PuffTheMagic> havent heard that before
Sep 05 13:55:36 <PuffTheMagic> delete?
Sep 05 13:55:36 <mplspades> The one I set up with optware, I assume extra
Sep 05 13:56:10 <PuffTheMagic> to just change your password use novaterm to get into bash
Sep 05 13:56:18 <PuffTheMagic> and type 'passwd <username'
Sep 05 13:56:23 <PuffTheMagic> and type 'passwd <username>'
Sep 05 13:56:42 <PuffTheMagic> and it will prompt you to enter and confrm the password
Sep 05 13:56:45 <mplspades> at the root castle?
Sep 05 13:56:51 <PuffTheMagic> yeah
Sep 05 13:57:02 <PuffTheMagic> castle is just the hostname of the pre
Sep 05 13:57:27 <mplspades> Uno momento, por favor.
Sep 05 13:58:39 <mplspades> My god, it worked!
Sep 05 13:58:59 <mplspades> I appreciate the help. Now one more question.. Why the hell doesn't novaterm just have c & p?!
Sep 05 14:00:31 <PuffTheMagic> it does
Sep 05 14:00:34 <PuffTheMagic> well
Sep 05 14:00:37 <PuffTheMagic> in linux
Sep 05 14:00:41 <PuffTheMagic> shift+ins
Sep 05 14:00:43 <PuffTheMagic> is paste
Sep 05 14:00:51 <PuffTheMagic> just about always
Sep 05 14:01:06 <PuffTheMagic> and ctrl+shift+c usually will do a copy
Sep 05 14:01:13 <PuffTheMagic> but its not the best terminal out there
Sep 05 14:01:25 <PuffTheMagic> thats why ssh is recommended
Sep 05 14:01:31 <PuffTheMagic> then you can use what ever terms your want
Sep 05 14:01:33 <PuffTheMagic> with better support
Sep 05 14:02:46 <mplspades> I just want to paste into novaterm.
Sep 05 14:03:00 <PuffTheMagic> try shift+ins
Sep 05 14:03:11 <PuffTheMagic> but i would recommend you get out of novaterm as fast as possible
Sep 05 14:03:22 <PuffTheMagic> its broken in other ways you dont even know yet ;)
Sep 05 14:03:31 <mplspades> Oh? Like?
Sep 05 14:07:57 <PuffTheMagic> mplspades: like nano dont work properly
Sep 05 14:08:54 <Decimation> when is the real 1.2 expected to release?
Sep 05 14:10:13 <freakout> Decimation: in the next fortnight, I'd say.
Sep 05 14:10:36 * rwhitby bbt
Sep 05 14:10:36 <freakout> Palm say they want to get the App Catalog revamp up-and-running by "mid-September"
Sep 05 14:10:57 <Decimation> i really wish i could copy images from the web into the email app
Sep 05 14:11:08 * rwhitby points to http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/ipkg-installer.git;a=summary for anyone interested ...
Sep 05 14:11:38 * freakout smiles, contemplates staying up to 1am again
Sep 05 14:11:56 <rwhitby> open source stand-along IPKG (supports multiple ipkgs in a bundle) installer, for java or .net
Sep 05 14:12:01 <rwhitby> stand-alone that is
Sep 05 14:12:34 <freakout> No Quick Install required anymore eh?
Sep 05 14:12:40 * Decimation is checking it out rwhitby :D
Sep 05 14:12:59 <rwhitby> when this is productised, that will be the case for ipkg installs.  of course WebOS Quick Install does more than just ipkg installs.
Sep 05 14:13:24 <freakout> of course, of course
Sep 05 14:14:18 <rwhitby> I'll probably incorporate it into the autobuilder for webos-internals ...
Sep 05 14:14:36 <rwhitby> (at least the java cross-platform one)
Sep 05 14:15:41 * rwhitby hits the sack before it turns Father's Day
Sep 05 14:16:00 <AnOutsider_> Father's day was in June
Sep 05 14:16:01 <AnOutsider_> at least here
Sep 05 14:16:10 <AnOutsider_> wahat the heck
Sep 05 14:16:13 <rwhitby> tomorrow (15 mins time) here.
Sep 05 14:16:50 <rwhitby> AnOutsider:  that ipkg installer should work for theme ipkgs too ;-)
Sep 05 14:17:02 <AnOutsider> which one is that?
Sep 05 14:17:10 <AnOutsider> the one the guy posted about on Precentral?
Sep 05 14:17:13 <rwhitby> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/ipkg-installer.git;a=summary
Sep 05 14:17:22 <rwhitby> the same
Sep 05 14:17:23 <PuffTheMagic> i wonder how bad i can break my pre today
Sep 05 14:17:29 <PuffTheMagic> by installing latest upstart
Sep 05 14:17:37 <AnOutsider> go for it
Sep 05 14:17:43 <AnOutsider> has anyone leaked out the 1.2 image?
Sep 05 14:17:44 <PuffTheMagic> i want dbus for upstart
Sep 05 14:17:52 <AnOutsider> I'm fairly certain palm did that intentionally
Sep 05 14:17:52 <PuffTheMagic> then i can make ui for starting/stopping services
Sep 05 14:17:55 <AnOutsider> crafty art they
Sep 05 14:18:04 <PuffTheMagic> AnOutsider: use old shit on purpose?
Sep 05 14:18:05 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Sep 05 14:18:16 <AnOutsider> old shit?
Sep 05 14:18:21 <AnOutsider> in the 1.2 release?
Sep 05 14:18:30 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: I think AnOutsider was referring to the 1.2 leak, not upstart.
Sep 05 14:18:33 <PuffTheMagic> oh
Sep 05 14:18:34 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Sep 05 14:18:40 <AnOutsider> hehe
Sep 05 14:18:42 <PuffTheMagic> its not that it was leaked
Sep 05 14:18:45 <PuffTheMagic> its avaiable
Sep 05 14:18:52 <PuffTheMagic> though the rom site
Sep 05 14:18:55 <AnOutsider> I thought they patched it
Sep 05 14:18:56 <PuffTheMagic> thats hardly a leak
Sep 05 14:18:58 <AnOutsider> ohh palm.com/ROM
Sep 05 14:19:11 <rwhitby> sorry, "unintentional release"
Sep 05 14:19:28 <AnOutsider> heh, that's what I mean.I think they're just trickling it out
Sep 05 14:19:29 <rwhitby> it's no longer available from any palm site
Sep 05 14:19:34 <PuffTheMagic> ehh i think its a pattern
Sep 05 14:19:36 <AnOutsider> that, or they really need to tighten down on their procedures
Sep 05 14:19:42 <PuffTheMagic> latest release was available in webosdr first
Sep 05 14:19:43 <PuffTheMagic> then emu
Sep 05 14:19:49 <rwhitby> yeah, it's intentional.
Sep 05 14:19:49 <PuffTheMagic> then ota
Sep 05 14:20:08 <PuffTheMagic> they are getting ready for the release
Sep 05 14:20:13 <rwhitby> it's so they can give it to us without having to officially acknowledge us.
Sep 05 14:20:22 <AnOutsider> from the posts, sounds like it's going to be a good one
Sep 05 14:21:10 * rwhitby retires
Sep 05 14:21:25 <AnOutsider> night man
Sep 05 14:21:41 * PuffTheMagic builds upstart 0.6.3 for armv7
Sep 05 14:21:43 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 14:26:26 <mplspades> Alright, how do I give my extra user root privilages.. I dont understand what step i missed.
Sep 05 14:28:42 <PuffTheMagic> mplspades: edit /etc/groups
Sep 05 14:28:49 <PuffTheMagic> and add your user to the wheel group
Sep 05 14:28:59 <PuffTheMagic> then you can run 'su -'
Sep 05 14:29:03 <PuffTheMagic> to gain root access
Sep 05 14:29:07 <PuffTheMagic> or use the sudo method
Sep 05 14:29:13 <PuffTheMagic> it should all be on the wiki
Sep 05 14:30:50 <mplspades> It is, but I just dont see how to do the editing, i see it says change shell to bash and add some lines which are apparently folders, but .. is that exactly what i type?
Sep 05 14:31:51 <mplspades> if i sudo every command will it work?
Sep 05 14:32:04 <PuffTheMagic> there should be something about editing /etc/sudoers
Sep 05 14:32:08 <PuffTheMagic> err not editing
Sep 05 14:32:13 <PuffTheMagic> but echoing a line into it
Sep 05 14:34:09 <mplspades> Well.. I got to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps and read all about sudo and a few other commands, I'm still lost, even though I dont feel like I'm an idiot. I used to like linux, now it scares me. :\
Sep 05 14:35:48 <mplspades> But after testing it out it appears and I can just sudo all the commands. :x all this for a friggin theme. I love my pre too much. lol.
Sep 05 14:36:21 <PuffTheMagic> "all this"... linux is easy :D
Sep 05 14:36:27 <PuffTheMagic> some people use it as their one and only OS
Sep 05 14:36:28 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 14:36:54 <PuffTheMagic> could u imagine if the pre ran windows :D
Sep 05 14:36:57 <AnOutsider> "all this for a friggin theme" heh... easier way is coming
Sep 05 14:37:11 <AnOutsider> linux is a good base OS for a lot fo things
Sep 05 14:37:13 <AnOutsider> of*
Sep 05 14:37:21 <PuffTheMagic> its a good OS for everything period
Sep 05 14:37:39 <PuffTheMagic> :/
Sep 05 14:37:47 <PuffTheMagic> i figured out why palm didnt use latest upstart
Sep 05 14:38:02 <AnOutsider> cuz it's windows based? :)
Sep 05 14:38:10 <PuffTheMagic> ha no
Sep 05 14:39:19 <AnOutsider> please do go on
Sep 05 14:39:27 <AnOutsider> and eff this holiday weekend. All my damn shows cancelled
Sep 05 14:39:29 <PuffTheMagic> it has to do with cross compiling
Sep 05 14:39:39 <mplspades> Nah I always knew linux was superior. For some reason I used to use freebsd.. but.. i'm copying a bunch of lines of code thats what I meant.
Sep 05 14:39:47 <PuffTheMagic> im building armv7 binary on an i686 box
Sep 05 14:39:50 <PuffTheMagic> and part of the build
Sep 05 14:39:54 <PuffTheMagic> make a little helper tool
Sep 05 14:39:58 <PuffTheMagic> that is used to build more shit
Sep 05 14:40:05 <PuffTheMagic> but that tool gets built as armv7
Sep 05 14:40:11 <PuffTheMagic> then when it is used to finnish building
Sep 05 14:40:17 <PuffTheMagic> it can be run on the i686 box
Sep 05 14:40:32 <PuffTheMagic> so that little tool needs to be built for i686 first to complete the build
Sep 05 14:40:37 <PuffTheMagic> then it needs to be rebuild for armv7
Sep 05 14:40:45 <PuffTheMagic> and i dont think palm wanted to figure that out
Sep 05 14:42:46 <AnOutsider> haha, so many things make me picture palm's dev team as a small group of coders struggling with a lot
Sep 05 14:43:35 <PuffTheMagic> well for a company to go opensource
Sep 05 14:43:43 <PuffTheMagic> esp to Linux where there are 1000000000 options for everything
Sep 05 14:43:51 <PuffTheMagic> and the same number of ways to solve problems
Sep 05 14:43:56 <PuffTheMagic> they arent doing that bad of a job
Sep 05 14:44:23 <PuffTheMagic> and if they arent long time linux users them selves they probably arent up on the trends
Sep 05 14:44:53 <PuffTheMagic> but luna is a pretty slick UI, well designed, maybe not documented the best
Sep 05 14:45:00 <PuffTheMagic> i dont think they are idiots
Sep 05 14:45:12 <PuffTheMagic> but they definatly have their work cut out for them
Sep 05 14:45:42 <PuffTheMagic> if they dont get Bluetooth improved they are gonna loose customers
Sep 05 14:46:46 <AnOutsider> well really webos is a desparate attempt at saving the company
Sep 05 14:47:06 <AnOutsider> so it's no surprise they threw together a team quickly and muddled their way through it all to get a product to market
Sep 05 14:47:18 <AnOutsider> and to be honest, they got a lot more done correct than apple did out the gates
Sep 05 14:47:18 <PuffTheMagic> "quickly"
Sep 05 14:47:22 <PuffTheMagic> ?
Sep 05 14:47:36 <PuffTheMagic> seems like its been in the works for a few years now
Sep 05 14:47:37 <AnOutsider> quickly. how long do you think apple worked on the iphone OS?
Sep 05 14:48:01 <AnOutsider> you can also tell they put that sucker through a lot of usability testing before it went out. There were bugs, but man, out the box that OS was slick and polished
Sep 05 14:48:21 <AnOutsider> palm is tidying up as we go, which is likely we (thankfully) have so many updates in such a relatively short period
Sep 05 14:48:28 <AnOutsider> 1.2 will make update #2 IIRC
Sep 05 14:48:32 <AnOutsider> err #3
Sep 05 14:49:09 <PuffTheMagic> well apple basically extended their ipod platform into a cell phone
Sep 05 14:49:34 <AnOutsider> not really
Sep 05 14:49:47 <AnOutsider> if anything, the ipod platform as it exists now (the touch) came from the iPhone OS dev I believe
Sep 05 14:50:02 <AnOutsider> iphone OS was very different than their current iPod OS's
Sep 05 14:50:13 <PuffTheMagic> everything after the 5g video
Sep 05 14:50:18 <PuffTheMagic> was iphone testing
Sep 05 14:50:18 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 14:50:33 <AnOutsider> heh
Sep 05 14:50:49 <AnOutsider> regardless. Their OS was in the works for a long time, and it was extremely polished when it came out
Sep 05 14:50:49 <PuffTheMagic> when i got my 5g video there was already talk about a touchscreen ipod
Sep 05 14:50:57 <PuffTheMagic> and that just turned into a phone
Sep 05 14:51:05 <AnOutsider> well you're just proving my point lol
Sep 05 14:51:18 <AnOutsider> how long did apple work on the iPhone OS vs how quickly palm came to market with WebOS
Sep 05 14:51:44 <AnOutsider> COMPLETELY different than anything they'd done in the past. By your own accounts, apple has been slowly building to the iPhone OS with all their iPod builds
Sep 05 14:51:48 <PuffTheMagic> well i wouldnt say plam was quick... apple was long
Sep 05 14:51:49 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 14:52:07 <AnOutsider> relatively quickly
Sep 05 14:52:08 <AnOutsider> better?
Sep 05 14:52:19 <PuffTheMagic> fine...
Sep 05 14:52:25 <PuffTheMagic> it still wasnt a bad 1.0.0 though
Sep 05 14:52:46 <PuffTheMagic> besides obex it does everything i would expect
Sep 05 14:52:55 <AnOutsider> lol nor did I say it was
Sep 05 14:53:01 <PuffTheMagic> and since its a linux box in my hand im like a pig in shit
Sep 05 14:53:08 <AnOutsider> haha
Sep 05 14:55:45 <bpadalino> i think 18 months was the development time for the pre hardware and software .. though apparently the foleo was linux based as well
Sep 05 14:55:49 <Decimation> i like 1.2
Sep 05 14:57:03 <AnOutsider> if so, 18 months is a very short time to both new hardware AND software from the ground up
Sep 05 14:57:19 <mplspades> i think i understand what to do.
Sep 05 14:57:53 <mplspades> I'm in etc, but i dunno how to create a file. and one i do I create a file called shells, and insert the other lines to make my shell my bash?
Sep 05 14:58:46 <mplspades> i see how to edit wit vi but not how to create..
Sep 05 14:58:55 <bpadalino> AnOutsider: absolutely .. and considering how polished the pre is .. it's amazing what they did
Sep 05 14:58:59 <bpadalino> very short development cycle
Sep 05 14:59:30 <PuffTheMagic> where did you hear 18months?
Sep 05 15:00:20 <bpadalino> isn't that basically when they brought rubinstein in ?
Sep 05 15:00:41 <AnOutsider> bp, the pre is polished, but it could use more. Some of Mojo is aesthetically unpleasing. For example, the email app
Sep 05 15:00:55 <bpadalino> AnOutsider: absolutely - not saying it doesn't need work ..
Sep 05 15:01:00 <AnOutsider> I can't stand reading emails on it because of how the subject/sender area is. Huge ugly gradiented gray blob
Sep 05 15:01:28 <AnOutsider> with some prettier styles and more responsive touch, I think it'd make it much better
Sep 05 15:01:41 <AnOutsider> I still kinda wish we coudl widgetize the "desktop"
Sep 05 15:02:01 <bpadalino> i honestly like the desktop the way it is - and kind of wish the launch bar at the bottom would go away
Sep 05 15:02:30 <AnOutsider> a blank screen? what good is that?
Sep 05 15:02:44 <bpadalino> i can bring it up using the wave if i want but i find myself searching for anything i want to do anyway
Sep 05 15:02:52 <AnOutsider> I was kind of excited for AHS. It was a slight disappointment, but a step int he right direction
Sep 05 15:03:30 <czarphanguye> Mmm.. So I updated ipkgservice and did the typical `sudo sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst` and now it goes `line 31: stop: not found` & `line 32: start: not found`  What?
Sep 05 15:03:46 <bpadalino> they need a better use for the button as well
Sep 05 15:04:10 <bpadalino> i think the back gesture is overrated and the button could replace that ..
Sep 05 15:04:15 <AnOutsider> agreed. I'm curious to see how things will go with pixie/eos
Sep 05 15:04:28 <AnOutsider> gestures are always kind of hit or miss with me
Sep 05 15:04:40 <bpadalino> i like the up gesture
Sep 05 15:04:46 <bpadalino> because it's easy
Sep 05 15:05:11 <bpadalino> and hard to screw up - but the back is much more difficult to do one handed while walking
Sep 05 15:06:37 <PuffTheMagic> bpadalino: i dont think you need to swipe, i think you can do a double tap
Sep 05 15:06:48 <bpadalino> double tap on the left hand side ?
Sep 05 15:06:49 <PuffTheMagic> tap on right then tap on left
Sep 05 15:06:57 <PuffTheMagic> nope
Sep 05 15:06:59 <PuffTheMagic> guess not
Sep 05 15:07:10 <AnOutsider> i like double tap
Sep 05 15:09:39 <mplspades> omg i cant exit our of edit mode in vi
Sep 05 15:10:13 <AnOutsider> escape
Sep 05 15:10:18 <AnOutsider> then :q!
Sep 05 15:10:24 <AnOutsider> or :wq if you want to save
Sep 05 15:10:25 <mplspades> hit it or type it?
Sep 05 15:10:31 <AnOutsider> hit the escape key
Sep 05 15:10:37 <AnOutsider> then TYPE :wq to save
Sep 05 15:10:39 <mplspades> ... im a dummy for that.
Sep 05 15:10:42 <AnOutsider> or :q!
Sep 05 15:10:45 <AnOutsider> :)
Sep 05 15:10:46 <mplspades> I was typing esc.
Sep 05 15:10:47 <mplspades> :/
Sep 05 15:10:49 <AnOutsider> hahah
Sep 05 15:10:51 <Decimation_> 1.2 is SOOO much snappier.
Sep 05 15:10:56 <AnOutsider> stop teasing
Sep 05 15:11:01 <PuffTheMagic> yeah
Sep 05 15:11:02 <PuffTheMagic> stfu
Sep 05 15:11:07 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 15:12:17 <czarphanguye> so, for what ever reason when I just type 'stop' or 'start' my ssh isn't looking into /sbin/  How and where do I add that?
Sep 05 15:13:03 <PuffTheMagic> sounds like your patch is messed up for some reason
Sep 05 15:13:59 <Decimation_> the dialer opens so quickly
Sep 05 15:13:59 <Decimation_> its lovely :D
Sep 05 15:13:59 <Decimation_> im gonna go look for commented code.
Sep 05 15:19:11 <mplspades> ok, now that i made the shell file, i edit the passwd file, and change my user shell parameter to.. what? /bin/ash
Sep 05 15:19:11 <czarphanguye> Nvm, got it.  Edit /etc/profile & add :/sbin to PATH=.  Meh
Sep 05 15:19:57 <PuffTheMagic> you shouldnt have needed to change anything about your shell
Sep 05 15:20:06 <PuffTheMagic> unless u installed bash or some other shell
Sep 05 15:20:11 <PuffTheMagic> and u want it as your default
Sep 05 15:21:37 <mplspades> wait, so this isn't... arg..
Sep 05 15:22:41 <mplspades> what exactly does this shell thing do?
Sep 05 15:25:53 <mplspades> nevermind, i think I understand now. lol. i've been struggling with this for no reason.
Sep 05 15:34:49 <Decimation_> okay guys, i really need some help
Sep 05 15:35:19 <psykoz> decimation_, so you web doctored 1.2 onto your phone? :)
Sep 05 16:07:05 <Decimation_> psykoz: yup
Sep 05 16:07:39 <Decimation_> as long as you dont open the "updates" app, you're good.
Sep 05 16:30:02 <Decimation_> rwhitby: so I see you noticed precentral is starting another closed-source project :)
Sep 05 16:38:06 <Templarian> Decimation_: (he's still sleeping)
Sep 05 16:47:44 <corq-FL> is there a simplified way  or a howto, to upgrade the package manager service? I don't have a windows machine handy for messing with webOS doctor; all linux machines at home, trying to do this from CLI :/
Sep 05 16:49:03 <bpadalino> i don't quite understand the question ?
Sep 05 16:52:07 <corq-FL> preware mentions the package manage service needs an upgrade, but mentions should be done via webOS quick install
Sep 05 16:52:48 <corq-FL> since my pre is rooted I was hoping to update via the command line, instead.
Sep 05 16:53:00 <Decimation_> corq-FL: what OS do you have?
Sep 05 16:53:10 <Decimation_> quick install works on all of them...
Sep 05 16:53:16 <corq-FL> ubuntu Jaunty
Sep 05 16:53:46 <Decimation_> corq-FL: yeah, quick install works fine on linux.
Sep 05 16:53:53 <corq-FL> Hmmm ok, I never could get webOS Doctor to detect the pre via usb on ubuntu, not sure why
Sep 05 16:54:11 <Decimation_> for quick install
Sep 05 16:54:21 <Decimation_> just put your phone in dev mode, and you are ready to go
Sep 05 16:54:32 <Decimation_> Templarian: i know he's sleeping, but he'll see it when he awakes :D
Sep 05 16:54:34 <corq-FL> ah ok will try that
Sep 05 16:55:00 <Decimation_> corq-FL: service upgrades should be supported in preware itself soon, still not 1.0 yet, so be patient :D
Sep 05 16:55:02 <corq-FL> I assumed quick install would give me same trouble webOS doctor did.
Sep 05 16:55:23 <Templarian> :P
Sep 05 16:55:43 <corq-FL> Oh, not impatient, I love tinkering ;-) but yeh always want new features too lol kid, candy store, etc...
Sep 05 17:00:15 <bpadalino> you trying to install preware ?
Sep 05 17:01:00 <corq-FL> cool, I see now. I totally thought quick install was a derivative of webOSDoctor, my bad for not at least trying it.
Sep 05 17:01:09 <corq-FL> Have preware, was trying to update it.
Sep 05 17:01:14 <bpadalino> oh
Sep 05 17:01:16 <bpadalino> i gotcha
Sep 05 17:01:29 <bpadalino> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware#Updating_via_IPKG - cli method if you care
Sep 05 17:03:33 <Decimation_> corq-FL: yup, the doctor is a little tricky sometimes.
Sep 05 17:03:41 <Decimation_> sometimes the next button wont light up
Sep 05 17:03:43 <Decimation_> in that case
Sep 05 17:03:45 <corq-FL> Hmm that might be what I was trying to do, ended up at the original install Ipkg pages instead. I was prolly too vague in the wiki search what I was trying to accomplish. Appreciate it.
Sep 05 17:03:47 <Decimation_> follow these steps
Sep 05 17:03:59 <Decimation_> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/How_To_Recover
Sep 05 17:25:46 <PuffTheMagic> DesktopMa: what closed source project?
Sep 05 17:32:41 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: ping
Sep 05 18:02:12 <PuffTheMagic> oil: ping
Sep 05 18:30:37 <destinal> PuffTheMagic: hey
Sep 05 18:30:56 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: last night when you were talking with rwhitby about sysfsbatterysercice
Sep 05 18:31:00 <AZero> what is the command to search a file for a specific word?
Sep 05 18:31:04 <PuffTheMagic> were all the license stuff ok
Sep 05 18:31:07 <AZero> linux cmd
Sep 05 18:31:21 <PuffTheMagic> destinal: i meant to ask you if you want your name in the lunaservices.h file
Sep 05 18:31:26 <AZero> i know :129 will bring to a certain line
Sep 05 18:31:34 <AZero> any1 know the command to string search?
Sep 05 18:32:39 <Eguy> anyone see the 1.2 led pulse? :D
Sep 05 18:32:41 <PuffTheMagic> egrep -r "asadjlajdljdlajda" path
Sep 05 18:32:51 <Meech> quick question...
Sep 05 18:32:52 <PuffTheMagic> Eguy: i saw the post about it
Sep 05 18:33:02 <Eguy> very exciting
Sep 05 18:33:10 <Meech> does anyone know how to remove the boot splash ?
Sep 05 18:33:25 <PuffTheMagic> omg this qemu-arm thing is so damn slow
Sep 05 18:33:45 <AZero> is there a command that i can text search within the file
Sep 05 18:33:45 <Meech> I want to see the scrolling text...  diagnostic purposes.  INSTEAD OF THE PALM OR CUSTOM LOGO's
Sep 05 18:33:46 <AZero> ?
Sep 05 18:33:57 <PuffTheMagic> AZero: i answered u
Sep 05 18:34:17 <AZero> ok ill try that outside the file
Sep 05 18:35:53 <Meech> anyone know?
Sep 05 18:36:58 <AZero> sorry don't know meech
Sep 05 18:38:03 <Eguy> You can't meech
Sep 05 18:38:15 <Eguy> it needs to be towo images afaik
Sep 05 18:38:16 <Meech> uhhh... it's linux
Sep 05 18:38:20 <Meech> you can.
Sep 05 18:38:21 <Eguy> two
Sep 05 18:38:38 <Meech> i'll just have to figure it out as I do with Desktop systems.
Sep 05 18:38:39 <Eguy> Well obviously you know then, find out! ;)
Sep 05 18:39:21 <AZero> Once you have the file open, search (or scan) for "TelephonyCommands.sendDTMF". There are two instances. At the end of this page are approximate line numbers, but these can change from version to version.
Sep 05 18:39:32 <AZero> how do I search or scan the file?
Sep 05 18:41:12 <bpadalino> yeah you can do that meech .. i forgot how ..
Sep 05 18:41:14 <PuffTheMagic> AZero: are u in a text editor?
Sep 05 18:41:16 <bpadalino> orange + c ?
Sep 05 18:41:19 <bpadalino> to see console ?
Sep 05 18:41:24 <AZero> yeah I'm in putty vi
Sep 05 18:41:26 <bpadalino> during bootup? i forgot
Sep 05 18:41:29 <AZero> i guess that is text editor
Sep 05 18:41:39 <AZero> SSHing under root
Sep 05 18:41:52 <PuffTheMagic> bpadalino: i htink u need usb plugged in for it too
Sep 05 18:42:00 <bpadalino> oh do you ?
Sep 05 18:42:01 <bpadalino> ok
Sep 05 18:42:07 <bpadalino> i've never tried it
Sep 05 18:42:11 <Meech> bpadalino if you remember...  hit me up.  if not I am going to search the file system.
Sep 05 18:42:31 <PuffTheMagic> Meech: just reboot
Sep 05 18:42:31 <bpadalino> meech, it's definitely in the logs for the channel
Sep 05 18:42:33 <Meech> I am just tired of restarting my phone to then have to wait 2 minutes for it to come up.
Sep 05 18:42:46 <bpadalino> i think geist mentioned it
Sep 05 18:42:51 <bpadalino> and someone else confirmed
Sep 05 18:42:54 <bpadalino> orange + x ?
Sep 05 18:42:58 <PuffTheMagic> i've done it
Sep 05 18:43:02 <PuffTheMagic> when i was testing my custom kernels
Sep 05 18:43:05 <bpadalino> there you go
Sep 05 18:43:11 <PuffTheMagic> i just dont remember if its orage + c or volup+c
Sep 05 18:43:21 <PuffTheMagic> and i think u needed usb connected
Sep 05 18:43:22 <bpadalino> volup+c might be it
Sep 05 18:43:35 <bpadalino> meech, try those and see what happens and let us know
Sep 05 18:43:54 <AZero> any idea on the search cmd while in the file?
Sep 05 18:44:02 <AZero> :wq! quit and exit
Sep 05 18:44:03 <bpadalino> in vi ?
Sep 05 18:44:05 <AZero> is there not a text find
Sep 05 18:44:08 <bpadalino>  /<searchstring>
Sep 05 18:44:17 <AZero> do I have to do :
Sep 05 18:44:19 <bpadalino> so /one will search for one
Sep 05 18:44:20 <bpadalino> no
Sep 05 18:44:21 <PuffTheMagic> AZero: saying you were in vi would have helped
Sep 05 18:44:30 <AZero> sorry puff, not super familiar =/
Sep 05 18:45:24 <AZero> thanks that worked!
Sep 05 18:46:04 <AZero> i didn't know you could edit these files without vi
Sep 05 18:46:13 <PuffTheMagic> install optware
Sep 05 18:46:15 <PuffTheMagic> then install nano
Sep 05 18:46:18 <PuffTheMagic> or emacs
Sep 05 18:46:22 <PuffTheMagic> or some other editor
Sep 05 18:46:33 <AZero> are those easier?
Sep 05 18:46:37 <Eguy> I gotta do something about optware...my Pre is "out of var space"
Sep 05 18:46:37 <AZero> more efficient?
Sep 05 18:46:44 <PuffTheMagic> nano is easy
Sep 05 18:46:47 <PuffTheMagic> i hate vi
Sep 05 18:47:03 <PuffTheMagic> Eguy: shrink media-internal
Sep 05 18:47:05 <AZero> do i have to install it on the pre too?
Sep 05 18:47:06 <PuffTheMagic> back it up first
Sep 05 18:47:13 <PuffTheMagic> AZero: yeah
Sep 05 18:47:15 <AZero> or just connect via SSH and because it's linux
Sep 05 18:47:17 <AZero> oh
Sep 05 18:47:24 <PuffTheMagic> Eguy: take a gig from mi and give it to var
Sep 05 18:48:57 <Eguy> can you remind me the link on the wiki, I am a bit too lazy right now ahahaha
Sep 05 18:51:51 <PuffTheMagic> i dont thinki put that on the wiki
Sep 05 18:52:30 <zachtib> hey, I had a question about the Terminal app: is there a way to have is run as a limited user instead of root, and have it start in that users home directory? as it is, I run 'su zach; cd' everytime I start the terminal, but I'd like to avoid having to do that if possible
Sep 05 18:53:45 <Eguy> my linux knowledge ends there hah  what do I need to do
Sep 05 18:54:01 <bpadalino> good suggestion zach
Sep 05 18:54:22 <PuffTheMagic> zachtib: that is sorta complicated
Sep 05 18:54:32 <PuffTheMagic> zachtib: cause you woudl need to go in an actually add a user to do that
Sep 05 18:54:36 <PuffTheMagic> which most people dont have
Sep 05 18:54:48 <PuffTheMagic> so we cant set a default like that
Sep 05 18:55:12 <bpadalino> can the terminal front end query for users in the system to choose who to login as ?
Sep 05 18:55:20 <zachtib> PuffTheMagic, right, but it could be an option
Sep 05 18:55:35 <PuffTheMagic> zachtib: yes we've tossed around the idea
Sep 05 18:55:39 <zachtib> PuffTheMagic, I'd even be willing to go an midify my installed copy manually if it's possible
Sep 05 18:55:51 <PuffTheMagic> zachtib: sure its possible
Sep 05 18:55:53 <PuffTheMagic> its opensource
Sep 05 18:56:00 <PuffTheMagic> zachtib: if u have an armv7 toolchain
Sep 05 18:56:07 <PuffTheMagic> the can change it and rebuild the plugin if you want
Sep 05 18:56:13 <Meech> nope...  didn't work.
Sep 05 18:56:25 <zachtib> (also, just noticed that installing irssi via optware doesn't work, on runtime it throws an error about libperl.so missing)
Sep 05 18:56:39 <PuffTheMagic> install perl first
Sep 05 18:56:39 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Sep 05 18:56:45 <PuffTheMagic> but remind rwhitby about it
Sep 05 18:58:09 <zachtib> PuffTheMagic, k
Sep 05 18:59:07 <zachtib> does ipk-opt not resolve dependencies? I'm too used to apt
Sep 05 18:59:16 <PuffTheMagic> it should
Sep 05 18:59:43 <bpadalino> i didn't realize irssi required libperl either
Sep 05 19:00:05 <bpadalino> oh, irssi scripts can be perl
Sep 05 19:00:11 <PuffTheMagic> zachtib: an irc client in mojo is next on my list
Sep 05 19:00:39 <zachtib> PuffTheMagic, that will be awesome :D
Sep 05 19:00:54 <zachtib> I need to start working on my javascript more so I can start on some homebrew
Sep 05 19:01:06 <zachtib> never really done any web development
Sep 05 19:01:39 <Rick_home> back
Sep 05 19:01:54 * PuffTheMagic really wants to cry at how slow qemu-arm-system is
Sep 05 19:02:04 <PuffTheMagic> compiling upstart 0.6.3 is gonna take forever
Sep 05 19:02:23 <Rick_home> sorry
Sep 05 19:02:48 <Rick_home> it explains why emulator is 8086 and not qemu arm
Sep 05 19:03:07 <PuffTheMagic> most def
Sep 05 19:04:59 <PuffTheMagic> just the configure part is taking forever
Sep 05 19:05:06 <PuffTheMagic> im not even at compiling yet
Sep 05 19:05:19 <PuffTheMagic> this better friggen work on the device when im done
Sep 05 19:06:46 <PuffTheMagic> and it failed
Sep 05 19:06:49 <PuffTheMagic> no pkg-config
Sep 05 19:06:52 <PuffTheMagic> damn this image
Sep 05 19:09:58 <Rick_home> why can you not cros compile it?
Sep 05 19:10:35 <PuffTheMagic> cause part of the build process builds a helper tool to do somet of the building
Sep 05 19:10:47 <PuffTheMagic> and when you cross compile, that tool becomes arm
Sep 05 19:10:51 <PuffTheMagic> which wont run on x86 box
Sep 05 19:10:54 <PuffTheMagic> so the build fails
Sep 05 19:11:08 <PuffTheMagic> and i dont know how to fix the makefiles
Sep 05 19:11:09 <Rick_home> ah
Sep 05 19:11:15 <PuffTheMagic> so that it builds it twice
Sep 05 19:11:25 <Rick_home> so you would how to re-do the makefile to make the tool in 8086 to allow the
Sep 05 19:11:26 <Rick_home> right
Sep 05 19:11:28 <Rick_home> nevermind
Sep 05 19:11:36 <PuffTheMagic> :)
Sep 05 19:11:37 <Rick_home> WAY beyond my linux wizard classiification.
Sep 05 19:11:50 <PuffTheMagic> im an autotools noob
Sep 05 19:11:53 <PuffTheMagic> that is way over my head
Sep 05 19:12:39 <PuffTheMagic> im gonna have to make a mojito to drink while this compiles
Sep 05 19:14:20 <PuffTheMagic> Rick_home: when is that conference you are talking at?
Sep 05 19:15:36 <Rick_home> Sprint Developer conference, santa clara, October 28th
Sep 05 19:16:08 <Rick_home> http://www.sprintadp09.com/sprint_ADP.html
Sep 05 19:19:39 <theo> MW you around??
Sep 05 19:25:30 <theo> Im getting ready to post the blinkin notifiication patch is anyone is interested
Sep 05 19:27:55 <en0x> will it work on 1.1? :P
Sep 05 19:28:20 <theo> not sure i dont believe anyone has attempted that
Sep 05 19:38:56 <mbetter> ahoy
Sep 05 19:53:14 <mbetter> how does webos decide to reindex the file system
Sep 05 19:59:55 <theo> patch is up  http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/201642-patch-blinking-led-notifications.html
Sep 05 20:08:33 <mbetter> okay so i can mount a windows shares in /media/internal
Sep 05 20:08:50 <mbetter> but i have to go to usb mode and back to get the pre to reindex the files
Sep 05 20:09:15 <mbetter> is there any way to manually force a reindex?
Sep 05 20:25:58 <PuffTheMagic> reindex?
Sep 05 20:27:46 <mbetter> well, when i load the music player, it sees the same stuff that it did before
Sep 05 20:27:52 <mbetter> unless i go into usb mode and out
Sep 05 20:28:14 <PuffTheMagic> nfc
Sep 05 20:28:54 <mbetter> ?
Sep 05 20:29:19 <mbetter> what's nfc?
Sep 05 20:37:41 <corq-FL> bpadalino thx for the command line tip upgrade for the ipkg service that worked.
Sep 05 20:40:02 <bpadalino> no problemo
Sep 05 20:40:35 <corq-FL> just for insanity's sake I tried to get ubuntu to see the pre from the java apps but neither webOSdoctor nor the quick install see it, while I can run novacomd and everything seems ok. *headscratch* oh well not urgent now anyway.
Sep 05 20:40:54 <corq-FL> novacomd from commandline that is.
Sep 05 20:41:12 <corq-FL> <-- thinks it's weird that linux can't see linux :/
Sep 05 20:41:19 <bpadalino> novacomd or novacom ?
Sep 05 20:41:27 <bpadalino> novacomd should be running as the daemon which sees the device
Sep 05 20:42:47 <corq-FL> yes novacomd: [2009/9/5 16:41:59] novacomctl socket ready to accept
Sep 05 20:43:13 <corq-FL> but then novaterm sees no device.
Sep 05 20:44:09 <corq-FL> my linux machine at work can at least see device in novaterm, at least on the day when I rooted it
Sep 05 20:44:29 <Decimation__> am i the only one who's sick of people totally misusing the term "brick"
Sep 05 20:44:32 <corq-FL> here on this machine, notsomuch
Sep 05 20:45:07 <corq-FL> heh, but it's Apple jailbreaker's fault ;-)
Sep 05 20:45:42 <mbetter> bbl
Sep 05 20:47:11 <bpadalino> corq, you need to start novacomd and then plug the pre in ..
Sep 05 20:50:55 <corq-FL> ok. sigh, no joy. running novacomd from commandline (looks as if running ok), then for instance launching webosquickinstall...
Sep 05 20:51:22 <corq-FL> and try to do "device management" just for giggles,
Sep 05 20:51:27 <bpadalino> you're not getting the procedure
Sep 05 20:51:37 <bpadalino> start novacomd ... plug the pre in to USB ...
Sep 05 20:53:26 <corq-FL> Yes I've tried both ways: novacomd > plugin pre (in dev mode) -> then webosquickinstall -> no love
Sep 05 20:54:05 <corq-FL> i tried a 2nd time and waited for it to prompt me, in case that precise instruction was a detection process.
Sep 05 20:54:21 <bpadalino> *shrug* sorry man
Sep 05 20:55:14 <corq-FL> hehe nah that's cool I appreciate all the effort and I have root on this so must things I can do via command line. I do appreciate your effort
Sep 05 20:57:43 <corq-FL> only thing I can think of is that doing this from a netbook maybe the usb ports on the netbook don't provide enough power on the usb port to detect somehow. I've tried all the different usb ports too.
Sep 05 21:00:17 <bpadalino> how do you have a root shell ?
Sep 05 21:01:38 <corq-FL> on my machine at work I suceesfully install novacom via a deb.ipa pkg I'd found, and followed the wiki instructions, mostly. I just can't repruduce my good fortune on the netbook here at hime.
Sep 05 21:02:23 <bpadalino> strange
Sep 05 21:05:57 <corq-FL> I had old laptop I threw xp on for the one webosdoctor reload had to do in June, even then it was damn stubborn detecting the device,m but finally did. Since then I've been beta with Win7 on the laptop and I just need to put it back on XP to have handy for rescuing the palm. I just really wanted to try getting ubuntu to work with it. Not a big deal, it charges from the netbook fine, and sees ut as a flash drive when needed.
Sep 05 21:15:56 <kesne> Hello all
Sep 05 21:25:16 <Decimation__> corq-FL: works fine with windows 7, and ubuntu.. lol
Sep 05 21:26:02 <Decimation__> hi kesne
Sep 05 21:32:03 <corq-FL> Decimation: I must just be lucky :/
Sep 05 21:32:29 <Decimation__> :P
Sep 05 21:46:31 <PuffTheMagic> just another friendly announcement, preyourmind.org is ready for people to start testing/using, you want non precentral project hosting check it out
Sep 05 21:46:37 <PuffTheMagic> auto feed generation
Sep 05 21:47:24 <PuffTheMagic> gotta create your own ipk's though
Sep 05 21:52:02 <oil> does it let you add that your package is dependent on this other package?
Sep 05 21:57:14 <PuffTheMagic> i had that in an older version
Sep 05 21:57:19 <PuffTheMagic> i havent reimplemented it yet
Sep 05 21:57:35 <PuffTheMagic> i mean i can add a plain text entry field
Sep 05 21:57:45 <PuffTheMagic> which would be fine
Sep 05 21:57:58 <PuffTheMagic> but u would have to enter in the info in exact ipkg syntax
Sep 05 21:58:11 <PuffTheMagic> the version i had before used drop down boxes
Sep 05 21:58:21 <PuffTheMagic> but only worked with projects on the website
Sep 05 21:58:37 <PuffTheMagic> so the text entry field will probably be needed for cross feed compatibility
Sep 05 21:58:48 <PuffTheMagic> so later tonight
Sep 05 21:58:54 <PuffTheMagic> like after dinner
Sep 05 21:58:55 <oil> xD
Sep 05 21:58:57 <PuffTheMagic> est time
Sep 05 21:59:00 <PuffTheMagic> i will will add deps
Sep 05 21:59:01 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 21:59:06 <PuffTheMagic> as a plain text field
Sep 05 21:59:07 * oil needs to go get breakfast
Sep 05 21:59:11 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Sep 05 21:59:12 <oil> lunch?
Sep 05 21:59:14 <oil> idk
Sep 05 21:59:20 <oil> its 2:58
Sep 05 21:59:21 <PuffTheMagic> brunch
Sep 05 21:59:22 <oil> but i just woke up
Sep 05 21:59:23 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Sep 05 21:59:26 <PuffTheMagic> thats like lupper
Sep 05 21:59:32 <oil> perfect
Sep 05 21:59:35 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Sep 05 21:59:41 <PuffTheMagic> i was up mad early
Sep 05 21:59:44 <PuffTheMagic> like 9am today
Sep 05 21:59:47 <PuffTheMagic> idk why
Sep 05 21:59:47 <oil> me too
Sep 05 21:59:51 <oil> i went to sleep at like 3am
Sep 05 21:59:51 <PuffTheMagic> i love the mornings though
Sep 05 21:59:58 * oil is NOT a morning person
Sep 05 22:00:13 <PuffTheMagic> aww i love it, calm, cool, quiet, get mad shit done
Sep 05 22:00:22 <PuffTheMagic> i hate waking up late such a waste of a day
Sep 05 22:00:34 <oil> i probably wont sleep tonight
Sep 05 22:00:39 <oil> lol
Sep 05 22:00:43 <oil> woke up way too late
Sep 05 22:02:12 <PuffTheMagic> haha
Sep 05 22:02:51 <oil> brb, gettin lupper
Sep 05 22:02:59 <oil> xD
Sep 05 22:17:46 <PuffTheMagic> dinner time
Sep 05 22:25:13 <Decimation__> hiii everyoneeeeeee.
Sep 05 22:25:22 <AnOutsider> ello ello
Sep 05 22:26:34 <Decimation__> hey AnOutsider
Sep 05 22:26:38 <Decimation__> still workin on the themer?
Sep 05 22:26:44 <AnOutsider> mmhmmm :(
Sep 05 22:27:17 <Decimation__> gettin anywhere? :D lol
Sep 05 22:27:52 <AnOutsider> oh yeah def. right now I'm working on the website end. working with designers to come up with an easy way to standardize themes and manage them
Sep 05 22:28:08 <AnOutsider> right now most of them are zipping up randomly named files with .docs with instructions on where to unzip to
Sep 05 22:28:25 <Decimation__> yeah, jason had a good zip service he was workin on
Sep 05 22:30:55 <AnOutsider> even still, unless that zip can understand written sentences, it's not realistic to use it to put themes in a standard form for everyone to use
Sep 05 22:31:12 <AnOutsider> I think outside of the app, I'm going to package the themes as zip files and installable jar files
Sep 05 22:31:17 <AnOutsider> should cover the baes
Sep 05 22:31:21 <AnOutsider> bases*
Sep 05 22:35:08 <bpadalino> all your base are belong to us
Sep 05 22:35:29 <quotemstr> What would it take for WebOS to support applications written in a non-HTML toolkit?
Sep 05 22:36:09 <AnOutsider> heh
Sep 05 22:36:18 <bpadalino> you'd need to shove that toolkit into the plugin architecture
Sep 05 22:36:37 <bpadalino> and then run it as a plugin
Sep 05 22:36:42 <quotemstr> But there's no particular reason an entire card couldn't be a plugin, right?
Sep 05 22:36:58 <bpadalino> that's how terminal and classic bothwork
Sep 05 22:37:03 <quotemstr> (Not that I plan to actually do any of this: I'm just curious.)
Sep 05 22:37:05 <bpadalino> as well as pdf viewer i believe
Sep 05 22:40:03 <quotemstr> Thanks. I wonder whether it'd eventually be possible to run (recompiled, of course) N900 applications.
Sep 05 22:41:05 <bpadalino> display is only one problem there .. how do you actually access the rest of the data ?
Sep 05 22:41:32 <bpadalino> if it's all done via dbus on the n900, then it makes it a bit easier ... but still difficult
Sep 05 22:42:24 <bpadalino> unless you're willing to really rip those application frameworks apart and dedicate yourself to doing so ..
Sep 05 22:42:28 <seekis> so how can we get webos 1.2
Sep 05 22:42:31 <bpadalino> i'd say don't hold your breath
Sep 05 22:42:55 <bpadalino> seekis, some people have posted links .. but the "release" wasn't ready for prime time and things like updates don't work
Sep 05 22:43:03 <quotemstr> bpadalino: No, you just write a card that runs an application over X11.
Sep 05 22:43:04 <seekis> thats fine
Sep 05 22:43:07 <seekis> i just want to check it out
Sep 05 22:43:27 <quotemstr> bpadalino: Then run the other application as a separate native process and talk to it from the Xserver-plugin.
Sep 05 22:43:27 <bpadalino> seekis, there are chat logs of this channel that you can read for links
Sep 05 22:43:46 <bpadalino> so you really just want x11 in a card
Sep 05 22:43:55 <quotemstr> Right.
Sep 05 22:44:05 <bpadalino> good luck mucking around with x11 :)
Sep 05 22:44:09 <seekis> and how do i get to those...
Sep 05 22:44:09 <bpadalino> or writing an x11 adapter
Sep 05 22:44:14 <bpadalino>  /topic
Sep 05 22:44:15 <quotemstr> I happen to *like* X11, you insensitive clod. :-)
Sep 05 22:44:29 <bpadalino> the source is pretty intense from what i understand
Sep 05 22:45:05 <quotemstr> It's much improved since the x.org split.
Sep 05 22:45:08 <bpadalino> ah
Sep 05 22:45:17 <bpadalino> time for me to go .. bbl
Sep 05 22:46:40 <seekis> ...this should be fun...
Sep 05 22:53:56 <quotemstr> So from a plugin, you get at a screen buffer by waiting for a draw event and *getting a raw framebuffer pointer* from the event struct?
Sep 05 22:54:09 <quotemstr> Aren't there functions for things like blitting images, drawing geometric shapes, and so on?
Sep 05 23:04:03 <theo> MW: I put a patch for the ledthrobber on precentral http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/201642-patch-blinking-led-notifications.html
Sep 05 23:04:13 <MW> I saw that
Sep 05 23:04:29 <MW> what I've been working on now is trying to get yahoo msgr working in the IM :)
Sep 05 23:05:24 <theo> how's that coming along for you?
Sep 05 23:05:42 <Eguy_> I hope Jason integrates the LED patch into the next quickinstall ;) *hint hint8
Sep 05 23:05:43 <Eguy_> *
Sep 05 23:06:26 <theo> well if they enable it for the acutal 1.2 release (hopefully) then we wont even need the patch
Sep 05 23:06:51 <oil> Eguy_: im sure he will
Sep 05 23:06:55 <Eguy_> hah
Sep 05 23:07:00 <Eguy_> I don't think so theo
Sep 05 23:07:09 <oil> he has already "thanked" on that first post
Sep 05 23:07:10 <oil> lol
Sep 05 23:07:16 <Eguy_> hey what happened to my nick... stupid freenode
Sep 05 23:07:39 <theo> lol... yeah i think i have my hopes up
Sep 05 23:08:01 <Eguy> you are better off patching it yourself
Sep 05 23:08:34 <Eguy> You would think they would enable SMS/Email/PDF rotation by default as well
Sep 05 23:08:40 <oil> true
Sep 05 23:08:44 <oil> or adding launcher pages
Sep 05 23:08:55 <Eguy> I wonder who would fine that useful???????
Sep 05 23:08:57 <theo> yeah, or a lot of the commented out feature
Sep 05 23:08:59 <Eguy> find*
Sep 05 23:09:19 <Eguy> I like how Palm decides for us what is there or not
Sep 05 23:09:26 <Eguy> ha... we'll show them!
Sep 05 23:13:53 <theo> just noticed they are adding support for skype
Sep 05 23:14:28 <MW> theo: I got it to show up as a button in the Add IM field but when you login it doesnt connect
Sep 05 23:14:31 <MW> and dumps error msgs in the syslog
Sep 05 23:14:54 <Eguy> http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/05/atandt-yanks-blackberry-bold-visual-voicemail-software-update/ :D
Sep 05 23:17:55 <theo> what are the logs saying??
Sep 05 23:22:19 <theo> MW: what files are you changing to get it to show up??
Sep 05 23:42:49 <quotemstr> What's going on with the alleged libpurple-adapter GPL violation?
Sep 05 23:45:37 <DraX> oh god, i hope if they did gpl violate their solution isn't to replace libpurple :(
Sep 05 23:50:04 <Templarian> I like how the libpurple site says http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/WhatIsLibpurple
Sep 05 23:50:31 <Templarian> "Palm - Maybe used in the messenger on the Palm Pre? "
Sep 05 23:52:03 <Decimation> :P
Sep 05 23:56:14 <MTW> hey
Sep 05 23:56:23 <MTW> is there a package to enable led notifications yet
Sep 05 23:56:36 <theo> there is a patch
Sep 05 23:56:43 <MTW> got a link?
Sep 05 23:56:43 <theo> and its only for 1.2
Sep 05 23:56:47 <MTW> im updating to 1.2
Sep 05 23:56:57 <theo> http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/201642-patch-blinking-led-notifications.html
Sep 05 23:57:19 <MTW> thanks
Sep 05 23:57:24 <theo> np
Sep 05 23:57:55 <quotemstr> Is there a way to differentiate the email and text message tones?
Sep 05 23:58:24 <MTW> god i hate precentral
Sep 05 23:58:27 <MTW> is it anywhere else?
Sep 05 23:58:40 <oil> wow
Sep 05 23:58:58 <MTW> shit site wants me to reg
Sep 05 23:59:05 <Decimation> goodness....
Sep 05 23:59:06 <oil> its really not that bad
Sep 05 23:59:14 <Decimation> MTW: its a good site
Sep 05 23:59:18 <MTW> i'd rather not reg
Sep 05 23:59:21 <Decimation> but if you are just going there for the patch
Sep 05 23:59:23 <Decimation> don't both
Sep 05 23:59:31 <Decimation> us members don't want members like that.
Sep 05 23:59:33 <oil> then you'd rather not get led notification
Sep 05 23:59:34 <oil> lol
Sep 05 23:59:45 <MTW> you two guys need to stop sucking each others dick and get back to the question
Sep 05 23:59:50 <MTW> Is it anywhere else?
Sep 05 23:59:51 <oil> lol
Sep 05 23:59:55 <oil> i didnt make it
Sep 05 23:59:59 <oil> i have no clue if its anywhere else
Sep 06 00:00:10 <Decimation> MTW: you are quite charming.
Sep 06 00:00:11 <oil> i would have downloaded it and emailed it to you
Sep 06 00:00:23 <oil> but, im too busy sucking Decimations dick to do that
Sep 06 00:00:27 <MTW> understandable.
Sep 06 00:00:31 <Decimation> you really know how to ask a question.
Sep 06 00:00:32 <wall---> http://www.bugmenot.com/view/precentral.net
Sep 06 00:00:38 <wall---> there is your login
Sep 06 00:00:43 <oil> hes not smart enough for bugmenot
Sep 06 00:00:44 <MTW> great work, thanks
Sep 06 00:00:45 <Decimation> yeah, gay men only.
Sep 06 00:00:45 <Decimation> get out please.
Sep 06 00:00:51 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:01:51 <Decimation> MTW: i'd like to personally congradulate you for being the biggest prick to ever join this IRC channel.
Sep 06 00:01:54 <theo> i would have gladly sent it to you if you would have asked a little more appropriately instead of talking shit
Sep 06 00:01:57 <MTW> you need to stop talking
Sep 06 00:02:00 <MTW> all you do is bitch
Sep 06 00:02:22 <oil> wow
Sep 06 00:02:34 <Decimation> oil, you know you can kick him.. right.
Sep 06 00:02:52 <oil> can i?
Sep 06 00:02:59 <Decimation> i think.
Sep 06 00:03:01 <MTW> auto rejoin is on. you are going to have to ban
Sep 06 00:03:04 <Decimation> right click on his name and try.
Sep 06 00:03:06 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:03:07 <Decimation> yeah, just ban him.
Sep 06 00:03:09 <oil> no i cant
Sep 06 00:03:14 <oil> im only +v not +o
Sep 06 00:03:24 <Decimation> ah.
Sep 06 00:03:26 <wall---> only chanserv is +o in here
Sep 06 00:03:38 <oil> someone who can make themselves +o will come ban him
Sep 06 00:03:44 <Decimation> does rwhitby control that?
Sep 06 00:03:56 <MTW> sand...
Sep 06 00:04:01 <theo> seriously are you 12, "auto join is on"... please tell me you're joking.
Sep 06 00:04:02 <oil> im sure others have it too
Sep 06 00:04:06 <MTW> auto-rejoin
Sep 06 00:04:06 <oil> no
Sep 06 00:04:07 <MTW> as in
Sep 06 00:04:07 <MTW> you kick
Sep 06 00:04:12 <MTW> my client rejoins
Sep 06 00:04:15 <oil> auto rejoin is grievers paradise
Sep 06 00:04:16 <MTW> nothing occurs.
Sep 06 00:04:23 <Decimation> do you enjoy being somewhere you aren't wanted?
Sep 06 00:04:24 <oil> all it does
Sep 06 00:04:26 <oil> is force peoplet o ban you
Sep 06 00:04:34 <MTW> i don't consider 4 dorks the measure of that
Sep 06 00:04:36 <oil> since a kick does nothing
Sep 06 00:04:39 <MTW> 4 dorks don't want me
Sep 06 00:04:44 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:04:45 <MTW> boo fucking hoo
Sep 06 00:04:51 <oil> wow
Sep 06 00:05:06 <Decimation> well, i guess he should stay.
Sep 06 00:05:14 <theo> really, arent you the genius that came asking for our help....
Sep 06 00:05:19 <oil> yeah
Sep 06 00:05:32 <Decimation> he's ran his mouth, asked for help like a prick, trash talked precentral, and called us dorks.
Sep 06 00:05:40 <Decimation> he is doing all the right things to stay!
Sep 06 00:05:44 <MTW> precentral is a shit site
Sep 06 00:05:46 <oil> dont forget we're sucking each others dicks
Sep 06 00:05:51 <oil> you forgot that one
Sep 06 00:05:54 <MTW> i should not have to register to register to download stuff
Sep 06 00:05:56 <Decimation> yeah, i can't even talk right no
Sep 06 00:05:56 <Decimation> w
Sep 06 00:05:59 <Decimation> my mouth is full.
Sep 06 00:06:02 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:06:06 <Decimation> YES YOU SHOULD, ROFL.
Sep 06 00:06:06 <oil> damn straight it is
Sep 06 00:06:07 <MTW> take a dick or two out
Sep 06 00:06:23 <edektor> who is getting banned?
Sep 06 00:06:26 <MTW> no one
Sep 06 00:06:31 <Decimation> if i had it my way, you'd have to have 10 post to download.
Sep 06 00:06:32 <oil> MTW wants to be banned
Sep 06 00:06:55 <theo> decimation: i agree
Sep 06 00:07:02 <MTW> that's idiotic
Sep 06 00:07:03 <oil> idk, 10 posts to download?
Sep 06 00:07:05 <MTW> i have my communities
Sep 06 00:07:07 <oil> that would cause more spam
Sep 06 00:07:09 <MTW> i don't want to be part of yours
Sep 06 00:07:12 <oil> then leave
Sep 06 00:07:15 <MTW> no
Sep 06 00:07:19 <oil> then you do
Sep 06 00:07:23 <Decimation> you just need a good staff oil
Sep 06 00:07:28 <MTW> not of precentral
Sep 06 00:07:31 <MTW> i don't mind it here
Sep 06 00:07:33 <theo> if you want something that people are working hard to create for the community then you should at least participate in it
Sep 06 00:07:33 <Decimation> and a good community to report spammers.
Sep 06 00:07:35 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:07:45 <MTW> rather not, theo
Sep 06 00:07:59 <edektor> MTW: what you need help with
Sep 06 00:08:12 <Decimation> edektor: don't help this fool.
Sep 06 00:08:23 <MTW> nothing atm
Sep 06 00:08:25 <MTW> pre is updating
Sep 06 00:08:27 <oil> he needs help with some manners
Sep 06 00:08:30 <edektor> I just want to know what he is trying to accomlish
Sep 06 00:08:33 <MTW> dec, just because you are butthurt doesn't mean you need to rage
Sep 06 00:08:39 <theo> mtw: dont really care what you would rather do, wasnt talking to you
Sep 06 00:08:41 <edektor> *accomplish
Sep 06 00:08:46 <Decimation> sorry, i'll control myself MTW.
Sep 06 00:08:53 <MTW> i just wanted the stupid led thing without regging for precentral
Sep 06 00:08:56 <MTW> someone gave me a login
Sep 06 00:08:58 <MTW> so im fine atm
Sep 06 00:09:18 <Decimation> could you honestly not take the minute to register?
Sep 06 00:09:23 <MTW> rather not
Sep 06 00:09:25 <MTW> im not going to post there
Sep 06 00:09:27 <MTW> so no need to reg
Sep 06 00:09:46 <Decimation> not even a "thank you" ?
Sep 06 00:09:55 <MTW> no thank you. more of a fuck you for forcing reg
Sep 06 00:10:00 <quotemstr> Decimation: You realize this channel is publicly logged, right?
Sep 06 00:10:09 <theo> if you would have just been even somewhat  polite i would have sent it to you, i am the one who made it.
Sep 06 00:10:17 <MTW> good work there
Sep 06 00:10:22 <Decimation> quotemstr: you're point?
Sep 06 00:10:24 <MTW> i've been wanting something like that for a while
Sep 06 00:10:45 <quotemstr> Decimation: That you're making yourself look foolish in public.
Sep 06 00:10:51 <theo> it is already built into 1.2, the just had it disabled
Sep 06 00:10:56 <Decimation> I'm making myself look folish? lmao
Sep 06 00:10:58 <MTW> yeah i read
Sep 06 00:11:10 <MTW> yes, you are
Sep 06 00:11:17 <edektor> quotemstr: who cares
Sep 06 00:11:17 <MTW> you are raging just because someone doesn't want to reg on precentral
Sep 06 00:11:17 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:11:22 <MTW> you are so god damn butthurt over nothing at all
Sep 06 00:11:24 <MTW> it's sad
Sep 06 00:11:26 <Decimation> oil: do you believe these people?
Sep 06 00:11:42 <oil> yes
Sep 06 00:11:45 <MTW> i don't want to reg on precentral
Sep 06 00:11:46 <MTW> so what
Sep 06 00:12:13 <Decimation> thats fine, but if you don't wanna register, don't come in here, talk shit, and ask for stuff that is avaliable on the site.
Sep 06 00:12:23 <edektor> MTW: why do you need to reg to see what you want to see on precentral
Sep 06 00:12:23 <MTW> no, no, and no
Sep 06 00:12:29 <MTW> i just needed a file
Sep 06 00:12:30 <MTW> they force reg
Sep 06 00:12:45 <MTW> in order to dl attachments you have to regh
Sep 06 00:12:47 <MTW> *reg
Sep 06 00:12:48 <MTW> fuck that
Sep 06 00:12:51 <edektor> what file?
Sep 06 00:12:59 <MTW> already got it, but the led notifications hack
Sep 06 00:13:01 <oil> led patch
Sep 06 00:13:07 <Decimation> and to you quotemstr: you can't be serious.
Sep 06 00:13:17 <edektor> all you do is uncomment come code in the sceen app
Sep 06 00:13:23 <MTW> alright, my internet is going to drop as im installing virtual box. don't rejoce, i'll be back
Sep 06 00:13:32 <MTW> *spelling
Sep 06 00:13:34 <oil> edektor hes not smart enough for that
Sep 06 00:13:47 <MTW> pre shit isn't my speciality
Sep 06 00:14:01 <Decimation> MTW: this is my first time expierencing with linux, i did fine.
Sep 06 00:14:14 <MTW1> back
Sep 06 00:14:18 <edektor> MTW: will have come +o homies by then
Sep 06 00:14:18 <edektor> some*
Sep 06 00:14:28 <MTW1> no +o with a brain will ban me for what i've done
Sep 06 00:14:38 <MTW1> i've insulted dorks/the holy precentral
Sep 06 00:15:07 <edektor> MTW: what is your specialty?
Sep 06 00:15:10 <oil> just ignore him, he will go away
Sep 06 00:15:22 <MTW1> you guys should stop hating
Sep 06 00:15:28 <Decimation> seriously, no one reply to that guy, his lack of manners is embarrasing.
Sep 06 00:15:29 <MTW1> its just sad
Sep 06 00:15:46 <theo> you know you fall under the dork category also, you are sitting at home, on your computer bitching in an irc chat room, hacking your phone..... think about it
Sep 06 00:15:54 <MTW1> nah
Sep 06 00:15:55 <oil> no, not hacking
Sep 06 00:16:08 <oil> copy/pasting
Sep 06 00:16:09 <MTW1> you guys don't know when to shut up, do you
Sep 06 00:16:21 <Decimation> i believe you have it the other way around.
Sep 06 00:16:44 <Decimation> MTW1: not joking at all here, i'd consider a theropist.. you truly do have problems talking to people.
Sep 06 00:16:52 <MTW1> only to dorks like yourself!
Sep 06 00:17:05 <quotemstr> Decimation: How old are you?
Sep 06 00:17:06 <edektor> MTW1: what is your specialty?
Sep 06 00:17:07 <Decimation> so we're all dorks here?
Sep 06 00:17:13 <MTW1> not all of you
Sep 06 00:17:14 <MTW1> just you.
Sep 06 00:17:23 <Decimation> ahh, just me.
Sep 06 00:17:26 <MTW1> edektor, why does it matter. has nothing to do with the pre
Sep 06 00:17:36 <edektor> just interested..
Sep 06 00:17:38 <Decimation> quotemstr: sh.
Sep 06 00:17:44 <MTW1> ah
Sep 06 00:17:50 <MTW1> i've done some interesting stuff on another platform
Sep 06 00:17:54 <MTW1> but nothing with the pre
Sep 06 00:17:55 <edektor> why does it matter that it matters?
Sep 06 00:18:09 <edektor> what platform?
Sep 06 00:18:17 <Decimation> MTW1: ever owned an iphone?
Sep 06 00:18:32 <MTW1> yes, but that's not what i'm talking about
Sep 06 00:18:40 <MTW1> edektor, if you want to know, i can pm you about it
Sep 06 00:18:47 <oil> its a secret?
Sep 06 00:18:53 <MTW1> no
Sep 06 00:19:09 <Decimation> we'd all like to hear.
Sep 06 00:19:10 <edektor> I dont see why you cant tell me here
Sep 06 00:19:24 <MTW1> not going to give douchebag over there ammo
Sep 06 00:19:25 <Decimation> rwhitby: ping.
Sep 06 00:19:39 <oil> so its embarrassing?
Sep 06 00:19:44 <MTW1> also, it's private
Sep 06 00:19:54 <MTW1> it involves hardware one is not legally allowed to own
Sep 06 00:20:08 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:20:09 <MTW1> forget about it
Sep 06 00:20:11 <Decimation> private, but you are willing to let someone just met in an IRC channel know?
Sep 06 00:20:13 <edektor> the platform is that secret
Sep 06 00:20:25 <MTW1> anyway
Sep 06 00:20:26 <edektor> was is it? winMo
Sep 06 00:20:26 <edektor> I hope not
Sep 06 00:20:29 <MTW1> whats going on in here
Sep 06 00:20:42 <Decimation> nothing, just being our dorky selves.
Sep 06 00:20:48 * oil is writing code
Sep 06 00:20:51 <MTW1> busy dling the webos doctor thing, setting this machine up with the sdk and the usual noboish crap
Sep 06 00:20:56 * oil is also laughing at MTW
Sep 06 00:21:05 * Decimation is with oil on that one
Sep 06 00:21:13 <MTW1> don't h8
Sep 06 00:21:27 <theo> i love being a dork...
Sep 06 00:21:27 <Decimation> you came in here 'hating' so don't talk to us about it.
Sep 06 00:21:40 <MTW1> only you
Sep 06 00:21:43 <MTW1> all i did was ask for a link
Sep 06 00:21:54 <MTW1> and you went off defending precentral like you are married to it
Sep 06 00:21:54 <edektor> android? iphone? symbian?
Sep 06 00:22:03 <Decimation> you started off calling precentral shit
Sep 06 00:22:06 <edektor> blackberry?
Sep 06 00:22:07 <MTW1> IT IS
Sep 06 00:22:11 <Decimation> im pretty sure everyone here is a member at that site?
Sep 06 00:22:21 <theo> the problem with that is the only link ive put up yet is on precentral....
Sep 06 00:22:22 <Decimation> its a shit site that apparently has a patch you want.
Sep 06 00:22:22 <MTW1> no need to defend it
Sep 06 00:22:25 <edektor> MTW1: what to you recommend as an alternative?
Sep 06 00:22:39 <MTW1> just disable forced reg
Sep 06 00:22:43 <MTW1> let me dl files without signing up
Sep 06 00:22:45 <MTW1> thats my only big problem
Sep 06 00:23:09 <Decimation> its nice to have an account there so that if you have a problem with your phone
Sep 06 00:23:12 <Decimation> you can post it there
Sep 06 00:23:15 <Decimation> and always get an answer
Sep 06 00:23:22 <MTW1> great, but i'm not interested in that
Sep 06 00:23:23 <Decimation> its a nice site, with a great team of developers.
Sep 06 00:23:25 <MTW1> see, you can like it
Sep 06 00:23:27 <MTW1> i can not like it
Sep 06 00:23:36 <MTW1> but you don't have to rush to it's defense every time its attacked
Sep 06 00:23:50 <AnOutsider> which site are we talking about here?
Sep 06 00:23:55 <Decimation> then don't come in here trashing it with an IRC full of members
Sep 06 00:23:57 <MTW1> because there are genuine problems with precentral
Sep 06 00:23:58 <Decimation> AnOutsider: precentral.
Sep 06 00:24:00 <MTW1> no.
Sep 06 00:24:06 <MTW1> i will bash it everywhere i want
Sep 06 00:24:13 <AnOutsider> ohh
Sep 06 00:24:17 <AnOutsider> whats wrong with precentral?
Sep 06 00:24:20 <MTW1> and you should grow up and accept that people don't always agree with you
Sep 06 00:24:32 <MTW1> ads everywhere (not that it matters, they are all blocked) and forced reg
Sep 06 00:24:46 <Decimation> thats fine, i dont care if you don't like it
Sep 06 00:24:51 <Decimation> but because you don't like something
Sep 06 00:24:54 <MTW1> great, not stop talking about it
Sep 06 00:24:56 <Decimation> doesn't mean you have to trash talk it.
Sep 06 00:24:57 <MTW1> *now
Sep 06 00:25:04 <MTW1> but i decided to do so
Sep 06 00:25:06 <MTW1> such is my right
Sep 06 00:25:19 <AnOutsider> I have ad blocker, but what's wrong with a site using ads for revenue? better than a forced payment no?
Sep 06 00:25:22 <Decimation> as is my right to call you out on it.
Sep 06 00:25:25 <AnOutsider> I plan to support prethemer with ads
Sep 06 00:25:33 <MTW1> and you seem like a child each time you do so
Sep 06 00:25:41 <MTW1> in reality, people disagree without getting into huge fights
Sep 06 00:25:44 <MTW1> and you are the one causing said fight
Sep 06 00:25:58 <Decimation> MTW1: i believe many would have a different opinion.
Sep 06 00:26:03 <AnOutsider> well then...
Sep 06 00:26:11 <MTW1> you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who disagrees with me
Sep 06 00:26:14 <AnOutsider> http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=tools/ipkg-installer.git;a=summary is this the same thing greg_roll was working on?
Sep 06 00:26:20 <AnOutsider> oh ya, there's his name :)
Sep 06 00:26:26 <Decimation> AnOutsider: yes.
Sep 06 00:26:34 <edektor> why did you need to get the file from precentral anyway?
Sep 06 00:26:36 <MTW1> oh great
Sep 06 00:26:36 <oil> figured it out
Sep 06 00:26:38 <edektor> wasnt it on quilt or preware
Sep 06 00:26:41 <AnOutsider> MTW1: FWIW, I disagree. I don't see what's wrong with ads, and what's wrong with having to register to post?
Sep 06 00:26:47 <AnOutsider> keeps out spam and fly-by-nighters
Sep 06 00:26:48 <MTW1> nah, edektor
Sep 06 00:26:57 <MTW1> i shouldn't have to reg just to get a file
Sep 06 00:26:57 <edektor> not on Quilt
Sep 06 00:27:00 <MTW1> i don't want to be part of that community
Sep 06 00:27:08 <AnOutsider> ooo, you mean the attachments
Sep 06 00:27:15 <MTW1> ye
Sep 06 00:27:16 <MTW1> *yes
Sep 06 00:27:19 <AnOutsider> yeah I can see why that would be a pain, but I can also see why they would do it
Sep 06 00:27:32 <MTW1> yeah
Sep 06 00:27:32 <MTW1> see
Sep 06 00:27:34 <MTW1> you are an adult
Sep 06 00:27:34 <AnOutsider> bandwidth is money #1, #2 they want to discourage lurkers and promote an active community
Sep 06 00:27:36 <MTW1> when i disagree
Sep 06 00:27:40 <AnOutsider> good reasons IMO
Sep 06 00:27:41 <MTW1> you don't go into a frenzy
Sep 06 00:27:45 <AnOutsider> haha
Sep 06 00:27:47 <AnOutsider> no, no frenzy
Sep 06 00:27:51 <MTW1> we can have a normal, reasoned discussion
Sep 06 00:27:57 <MTW1> something that other guy is not capable of
Sep 06 00:28:02 <AnOutsider> don't u go calling me reasonable bitch
Sep 06 00:28:05 <AnOutsider> ;)
Sep 06 00:28:07 <MTW1> lol
Sep 06 00:28:23 <AnOutsider> ok so now i gotta figure out how to use git
Sep 06 00:28:31 <AnOutsider> im a new SVN user :p
Sep 06 00:28:35 <edektor> AnOutsider: what you wanna know?
Sep 06 00:28:35 <MTW1> ah
Sep 06 00:28:54 <Decimation> :)
Sep 06 00:29:07 * Decimation praises oil.
Sep 06 00:29:26 <AnOutsider> nah just need to get it set up so I can pull this source down
Sep 06 00:29:34 <AnOutsider> I'm going to toy with auto-packaging themes tonight
Sep 06 00:30:08 <AnOutsider> oh wait. 1.1, isnt this the same version he posted on precental? I've already got that
Sep 06 00:31:49 <Decimation> well, thank you oil, there goes one headache.
Sep 06 00:39:31 <destinal> To be clear, I have no problem with anyone criticizing any particular site but insulting other members of the channel and in general acting offensively, I _do_ have a problem with.
Sep 06 00:39:57 <destinal> Channel policy states: We expect all participants to treat each other with respect, irrespective of skills or status.
Sep 06 00:40:22 <oil> it only started with saying he doesn't like pc, which i dont care if he likes it or not
Sep 06 00:40:27 <oil> but then he got angry and insulting
Sep 06 00:40:32 <destinal> yeah, that's totally out of line
Sep 06 00:41:00 <Decimation> could care less if he likes the site
Sep 06 00:41:17 <Decimation> but expressing an opinion, and trash talking have a fine line between them
Sep 06 00:41:20 <Decimation> one that was crossed.
Sep 06 00:41:55 <destinal> well I think there was a pretty broad line that he careened over at a rapid clip :P
Sep 06 00:44:28 <Decimation> destinal: one could say so :P
Sep 06 00:44:47 <Decimation> lol, was i in the wrong at all?
Sep 06 00:45:10 <oil> totally
Sep 06 00:45:18 <Decimation> :O
Sep 06 00:45:22 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:46:41 <theo> thats hilarious, leave to go to the store come back and my favorite person has been removed.... so sad
Sep 06 00:46:47 <destinal> quotemstr: ping
Sep 06 00:47:07 <oil> he was your favorite person?
Sep 06 00:47:31 <theo> lol... sure, i thought you knew that....jk
Sep 06 00:49:03 <theo> he has every right to not like a site but as destinal stated, there is no reason to attack other members just because you dont get what you want
Sep 06 00:49:42 <Decimation> lol, whatever though, he's gone now.
Sep 06 00:49:53 <freakout> Personally, I don't like Precentral either. But it's a hate born out of jealousy. Their community is so much friendlier than the one on my site. :P
Sep 06 00:49:57 <Decimation> just another idiot.
Sep 06 00:50:13 <freakout> And the haven't invitied me on the PalmCast yet.
Sep 06 00:50:25 <freakout> Elitist snobs!
Sep 06 00:50:29 <AnOutsider> hehe
Sep 06 00:50:33 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:50:56 <theo> which they should do immediately
Sep 06 00:51:00 <destinal> freakout: Precentral is pretty cool, though I think competition is a good thing, I don't really one any one site to dominate :)
Sep 06 00:51:10 <freakout> Maybe it's because I can't spell "invited"....
Sep 06 00:51:10 <destinal> s/one any/want any/
Sep 06 00:51:12 <infobot> destinal meant: freakout: Precentral is pretty cool, though I think competition is a good thing, I don't really want any one site to dominate :)
Sep 06 00:51:21 <freakout> lol @infobot
Sep 06 00:51:44 <destinal> ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:51:44 <infobot> destinal: thanks
Sep 06 00:51:57 <Decimation> ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:51:57 <infobot> thanks, Decimation
Sep 06 00:52:01 <Decimation> :D
Sep 06 00:52:11 <oil> i wonder what happens if you feed him too many snacks
Sep 06 00:52:16 <Decimation> everyone deserves a treat infobot..
Sep 06 00:52:19 <freakout> Let's find out
Sep 06 00:52:22 <oil> lol
Sep 06 00:52:29 <freakout> ~botsnack ~botsnack ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:30 <infobot> :), freakout
Sep 06 00:52:32 <oil> is it like overfeeding a foldfish?
Sep 06 00:52:33 <destinal> hey, infobot needs to keep his girlish figure
Sep 06 00:52:35 <oil> goldfish*
Sep 06 00:52:41 <freakout> "It's wafer-thin...."
Sep 06 00:52:45 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:45 <infobot> Decimation: thanks
Sep 06 00:52:45 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:46 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:46 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:46 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:47 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:48 <Decimation>  ~botsnack
Sep 06 00:52:50 <destinal> Decimation: stop
Sep 06 00:52:51 <oil> ohh
Sep 06 00:52:54 <freakout> http://youtube.com/watch?v=BlK62rjQWLk
Sep 06 00:52:57 <Decimation> destinal: lol, k.
Sep 06 00:53:43 <destinal> ~thanks for not flooding, infobot
Sep 06 00:53:44 <infobot> destinal: bitte
Sep 06 00:54:11 <theo> lol thats what the infobot looks like now
Sep 06 00:54:29 <Decimation> ~thanks infobot, you're a doll :D
Sep 06 00:54:29 <infobot> Decimation: no problem
Sep 06 00:54:38 <Decimation> lol, thats great.
Sep 06 00:55:04 <freakout> just wait, theo and Decimation. It gets sooooo much worse
Sep 06 00:59:21 <oil> he explodes?
Sep 06 00:59:39 <freakout> Lol
Sep 06 00:59:45 <freakout> oil: spoilers! spoilers!
Sep 06 01:00:31 <oil> sorry
Sep 06 01:01:04 <freakout> j/k
Sep 06 01:01:22 <freakout> It's from 1983. I think you can safely ignore spoiler warnings after the first two decades
Sep 06 01:08:41 <rwhitby> Decimation: they are saying the precentral app is closed for proprietary API to the site reasons.
Sep 06 01:08:53 <oil> yeah, i was asking about that
Sep 06 01:09:13 <oil> when i was asked to "join the team"
Sep 06 01:09:40 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: regarding licensing, we saw COPYING at the top level, but main.c just had all rights reserved in it rather than the normal GPLv2 file header.  We knew your intent, but the header in main.c in isolation would be confusing to others.
Sep 06 01:11:42 <destinal> rwhitby: I don't think that someone can authorize you to use an API in one app and not another
Sep 06 01:12:12 <rwhitby> Decimation: you are not the only one sick of people totally misusing the term "brick"
Sep 06 01:12:32 * oil will brb
Sep 06 01:13:51 <destinal> since unauthorized access laws are the only thing that they have to leverage against someone using an unofficial app, in this case, the public will be authorized to use the web services they provide
Sep 06 01:14:20 <rwhitby> heh - I would have kicked MTW immediately after he talking about people sucking parts of other people's anatomy in channel
Sep 06 01:14:40 <Decimation> rwhitby: people seem to not know what brick means.
Sep 06 01:14:50 <destinal> rwhitby: it seems that some ops hadn't used chanserv to gain ops before
Sep 06 01:14:53 <rwhitby> (since he's been kicked before, he no longer gets warnings)
Sep 06 01:15:37 <destinal> rwhitby: so regarding secret public API's, I really can't see how precentral can expect to keep them proprietary.   just about every other major company that has made one has seen it reverse engineered and a compatible app made public
Sep 06 01:16:01 <freakout> rwhitby: but it was getting me so hot
Sep 06 01:16:08 <Decimation> i wonder how paid app store apps will work
Sep 06 01:16:20 <Decimation> won't people just SSH in a spread em on the net?
Sep 06 01:17:40 <destinal> Decimation: yeah, it's unknown at this point what they're planning to avoid that if anything
Sep 06 01:18:01 <destinal> it's really the same problem with any copyrighted data in any distribution model
Sep 06 01:18:28 <destinal> they can create copy protection mechanisms, but they'll be cracked, and so on
Sep 06 01:18:29 <Decimation> my guess is they'll sniff down people spreading paid apps and put lawsuits in their faces.
Sep 06 01:19:24 <destinal> well, really it's up to the copyright holders
Sep 06 01:19:27 <Rick_home> Well,   our business model involves unique ID with web services for advanced function.
Sep 06 01:19:41 <Rick_home> and basic function is on the free demo app
Sep 06 01:20:13 <Rick_home> I honestly can't think of any other way to do it on the Pre.
Sep 06 01:20:15 <destinal> Rick_home: meaning you're putting key functionality on the web service that isn't easily replicated in the app?
Sep 06 01:20:29 <Rick_home> we're putting SOME functionality on the web.
Sep 06 01:20:59 <Rick_home> for instance,  on a db app,  upload an access table, or an excel spreadsheet and we perform conversion FOR you and the app grabs it in native format.
Sep 06 01:21:15 <destinal> ah
Sep 06 01:21:27 <freakout> Strict DRM on apps wouldn't help anyway. Just look on bittorrent for iPhone apps sometime, they're everywhere.
Sep 06 01:22:05 <Rick_home> or in an ebook reader program,  upload your PDB  or your rocketbook file or mobipocket or whatever, and the app magically downloads a native format ebook.
Sep 06 01:22:32 <Rick_home> small charges for web services,  monthly subscription or pay by the piece,
Sep 06 01:22:42 <Rick_home> and the base program runs just fine if you want to do all the work yourself.
Sep 06 01:22:54 <Rick_home> so,   download the free program.  It works.
Sep 06 01:23:38 <rwhitby> destinal: that's the reason kesne gave for the precentral app being closed.  it's a reasonble rationale from precentral - obviously as you state it has no weight in law, but they are big enough to sway opinion without law in their particular market.
Sep 06 01:23:53 <Rick_home> buy the upgrade to the web service program,  and it gets the serial number from teh phone  and registers you
Sep 06 01:24:42 <Rick_home> and yes, we have to have a mechanism (probably mail you)  to register a different phone.
Sep 06 01:24:44 <Rick_home> Big deal
Sep 06 01:24:55 * rwhitby wonders whether those people getting involved in feeding the MTW troll considered whether future employers will be able to use Google to look up IRC nicks ... :-)
Sep 06 01:25:23 <Rick_home> the point isn't to keep people from using the app, the point is to get people to pay $0.50  or $0.99  for a transaction or $3 a month for unlimeted access -- these prices not yet set... just by example
Sep 06 01:28:02 <zsoc> zomg what'd i miss?
Sep 06 01:28:37 <Rick_home> check the logs
Sep 06 01:28:42 <Rick_home> no one wants to repeat that.
Sep 06 01:28:49 <zsoc> Right :)
Sep 06 01:29:24 <Rick_home> an hour an a half ago.
Sep 06 01:29:53 <Rick_home> wb PreGame
Sep 06 01:30:23 <Rick_home> So.....    I got the schedule for Sprints conference.
Sep 06 01:30:35 <Rick_home> 4 hour webos programming workshop on day one.
Sep 06 01:30:38 <Rick_home> None on day 2
Sep 06 01:30:53 <Rick_home> and I get a 45 minute slot in the LAST SLOT OF THE DAY on day 3.
Sep 06 01:30:55 <Rick_home> :-(
Sep 06 01:30:57 <Rick_home> oh well.
Sep 06 01:31:35 <Rick_home> so,  Marco and I have decided we're going to community-organize a webos session during the android and winmoble programming sessions on day 2,,  in the evening.
Sep 06 01:31:44 <Rick_home> We'll take over a lobby or a loung or something.....
Sep 06 01:31:48 <Rick_home> signs-are-us.
Sep 06 01:32:10 <AnOutsider> goddamnit. eff ANT
Sep 06 01:32:14 <destinal> Rick_home: pwned
Sep 06 01:32:18 <destinal> Rick_home: but yeah, good idea
Sep 06 01:32:22 <Rick_home> tha's the plan
Sep 06 01:32:58 <Rick_home> we figure that during the webos sessions PALM is doing on day 1,  we can semi-announce where we will do a community session on day 2,
Sep 06 01:33:01 <zsoc> Why is there so little preware love on precentral? I can't even read their forums anymore.
Sep 06 01:33:08 <destinal> so is it Sprint internal?
Sep 06 01:33:14 <Rick_home> which we will use to foment attendance on day 3.  :-)
Sep 06 01:33:36 <Rick_home> preware not glitzy enough.   and has a long load time up front.  people think it's hung.  Needs a progress bar.
Sep 06 01:33:56 <Rick_home> not QUITE sure how to do that.  but the service COULD feed back a counter as it info's each package....
Sep 06 01:34:15 <Rick_home> but right now that big spinning circle is a turn off.  People think the program's hung
Sep 06 01:34:26 <zsoc> Heh, it's funny. Preload gives WAY too much info.
Sep 06 01:34:54 <zsoc> It was great actually, it failled at loaded a package, and it's response message was that the Install Succeeded Successfully at Package_Install_Fail or something similar.
Sep 06 01:35:10 <destinal> rwhitby: it really depends on what their API will be useful for, could be cool to make an app that consumes it
Sep 06 01:35:20 <destinal> but I kind of doubt it's worth the effort
Sep 06 01:36:15 <destinal> zsoc: lol
Sep 06 01:36:15 <zsoc> rwhitby, also, just in the way of a quick update. gstreamer is giving me super difficulties building properly. I can build plugins with the libs but that restricts me in testing.
Sep 06 01:36:44 <destinal> zsoc: can you elaborate?
Sep 06 01:38:33 <zsoc> destinal, on the gst issues?
Sep 06 01:38:54 <destinal> yeah, what doesn't build and why
Sep 06 01:38:57 <destinal> that sort of thing
Sep 06 01:38:58 <rwhitby> Rick_home: Preware just isn't the tool for the instant gratification generation ;-)
Sep 06 01:39:30 <destinal> I really have doubts as to whether the service calling ipkg at the command line is really going to be the best answer long term
Sep 06 01:39:50 <tlp> I hope Palm ships 1.2 with the LED stuff enabled by default
Sep 06 01:39:57 <tlp> I guess that'd be an easy patch for Preware
Sep 06 01:40:03 <rwhitby> destinal: agreed.  oil and I are going to try just passing up the lists and status file contents as-is, and see how fast that is.
Sep 06 01:41:00 <rwhitby> if that fails, then the next step would be for the service to work in the background on boot and update an sqlite db before Preware is even launched.
Sep 06 01:41:12 <zsoc> destinal, gst isn't available in the arm debian repos (although all of the plugins and various other support libs are), and i can't get the source to configure without ridiculous glib problems. i haven't put too much time into it, i'm fairly certain i could figure it out tho
Sep 06 01:41:59 <rwhitby> then there is always demand-loading of app data - only load the info you need as you're scrolling through the apps in the list.
Sep 06 01:42:16 <rwhitby> there are plenty of ways to speed things up once the functionality is correct.
Sep 06 01:43:01 <Rick_home> yep
Sep 06 01:43:12 <Rick_home> but a progress bar solution would work too.
Sep 06 01:43:20 <Rick_home> people can be patient if they know somehitn is HAPPENING
Sep 06 01:43:26 <Rick_home> that spinner tho,  that has to die.
Sep 06 01:43:27 <Rick_home> :-)
Sep 06 01:43:53 * zsoc wonders about the best way to kill wake up messages
Sep 06 01:45:05 <rwhitby> Rick_home: so a progress bar that progresses at a couple of pixels per second (total length == 5 minutes) and then just jumps to the end when we're ready?
Sep 06 01:45:31 <zsoc> genius.
Sep 06 01:45:58 <Rick_home> rwhitby:   Brilliant.  You australians are so CREATIVE....
Sep 06 01:46:07 <rwhitby> then people will say "wow, look how fast Preware does all those things at the end ..."
Sep 06 01:46:46 <freakout> Rick_home: it's the LSD in our water supply. ;)
Sep 06 01:46:56 <Rick_home> now that's something I never thought of .    a FAKE progress pill.
Sep 06 01:46:58 <Rick_home> :-)
Sep 06 01:47:25 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: re: the license thing...
Sep 06 01:47:36 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: yep
Sep 06 01:47:43 <PuffTheMagic> i didnt want to put the whole gpl2 in the header
Sep 06 01:47:50 <PuffTheMagic> so if there is something else i should add let me know
Sep 06 01:48:07 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: there's a 15 line short form
Sep 06 01:48:16 <PuffTheMagic> got link?
Sep 06 01:48:23 <rwhitby> or even just "Licensed under the GPLv2" instead of "all rights reserved"
Sep 06 01:48:51 <oil> puff: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/200660-preware-17.html#post1872410
Sep 06 01:48:55 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: I think the AccelService Java has the header I'm thinking of at the top.
Sep 06 01:49:51 <tmzt> what internals stuff is only on precentral.com?
Sep 06 01:50:53 <rwhitby> tmzt: precentral.net?, none yet cause fileCoaster can't handle advanced homebrew apps, and Dieter has only just put in the flags in the DB to allow him to exclude them from the fileCoaster feed.
Sep 06 01:50:55 <Rick_home> all webos-internals stuff is on our git repo
Sep 06 01:51:25 <rwhitby> tmzt: PreYourMind.org is a good site for -internals stuff
Sep 06 01:51:50 <Rick_home> gpl2  program header short form at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html#TOC4
Sep 06 01:52:33 <rwhitby> tmzt: PuffTheMagic runs it, and it handles everything regarding advanced homebrew nicely.
Sep 06 01:52:55 <rwhitby> tmzt: the other option is just put it on git.webos-internals.org and get the autobuilder to handle it.
Sep 06 01:53:30 <oil> rwhitby: how about just adding a second info method for testing just passing the data without preprocessing it
Sep 06 01:53:43 <rwhitby> WebOSGroup.com is a new site too
Sep 06 01:53:54 <oil> and canuck software
Sep 06 01:54:01 <oil> though he doesnt have a site i dont think
Sep 06 01:54:08 <rwhitby> oil: yeah - rawlist(feed) and rawstatus
Sep 06 01:54:22 <tmzt> rwhitby: I'm not sure if you were here the first time mtw here?  He certainly wasn't treated with the respect discyssed in the current policy
Sep 06 01:54:29 <rwhitby> oil: no, canuck-software is just a feed for his own apps, not a submission site
Sep 06 01:54:38 <oil> ah
Sep 06 01:55:15 <rwhitby> tmzt: mtw is actaully a repeat offender.  He's already had warnings and was kicked weeks ago.
Sep 06 01:55:59 <tmzt> I know, I mean the first time a few weeks after the Pre was realesed
Sep 06 01:56:16 <rwhitby> tmzt: although I do agree that people got pulled into his particular style of trolling too easily, and we didn't have the mechanics of enacting the policy documented for the ops to follow
Sep 06 01:57:00 <rwhitby> tmzt: if I remember correctly, he wasn't actually kicked on that occasion, but was talked down and left on his own accord.
Sep 06 01:57:01 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: nice plug ;)
Sep 06 01:57:04 <oil> getting treated badly months ago makes his current acts acceptable?
Sep 06 01:57:18 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i talked to Templarian about making little affiliate banners
Sep 06 01:57:28 <PuffTheMagic> i think he forgot about it
Sep 06 01:57:40 <Templarian> Sorry about that
Sep 06 01:57:49 <PuffTheMagic> lol no prob
Sep 06 01:58:29 <Templarian> I'm going to design one up for my site i'll try to get something that can be quickly pasted in.
Sep 06 01:58:33 <rwhitby> tmzt: people can express any opinion they want about any site in here (in line with the on-topic guidelines of course), but the first sign of disrespect for other participants is the tipping point.
Sep 06 01:58:44 <tmzt> may I missed part of today's discusson, I only saw where it reached the personal attacks stage
Sep 06 01:59:10 <rwhitby> tmzt: you will notice that PuffTheMagic and I can have quite robust arguments, but have never disrespected each other.
Sep 06 01:59:13 <tmzt> or accusationsof same
Sep 06 01:59:18 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Sep 06 01:59:21 <PuffTheMagic> robust
Sep 06 01:59:21 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Sep 06 01:59:24 <tmzt> sure
Sep 06 02:00:00 <rwhitby> that's the way in which we expect disagreements to be handled between channel participants.
Sep 06 02:00:19 * Templarian can't wait to see the new Jay Leno
Sep 06 02:00:39 <PuffTheMagic> i cant wait for new Big Bang
Sep 06 02:00:53 <Templarian> Of course puff we all are.
Sep 06 02:01:11 <PuffTheMagic> fyi
Sep 06 02:01:25 * PuffTheMagic is still trying to build upstart 0.6 for armv7
Sep 06 02:01:50 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic, what issue are you having?
Sep 06 02:02:07 <PuffTheMagic> well i cant cross compile it
Sep 06 02:02:18 <PuffTheMagic> so ihave to build it with qeum and an arm image
Sep 06 02:02:24 <PuffTheMagic> so i found a debian image
Sep 06 02:02:30 <PuffTheMagic> but its lenny
Sep 06 02:02:39 <PuffTheMagic> and lenny has dbus 1.2.1
Sep 06 02:02:45 <PuffTheMagic> and i need >1.2.4
Sep 06 02:02:55 * zsoc wonders what debian image he's using
Sep 06 02:02:56 <PuffTheMagic> which means i have to build a shit load of deps from scrach
Sep 06 02:03:15 <PuffTheMagic> http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/arm/
Sep 06 02:03:33 <tmzt> has anyone run ubuntu/X yet?
Sep 06 02:03:43 <quotemstr> tmzt: On the Pre?
Sep 06 02:03:43 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic, Is 5.0.1 Lenny?
Sep 06 02:03:59 <PuffTheMagic> 5.0.1 of what?
Sep 06 02:04:03 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic, Debian
Sep 06 02:04:06 <PuffTheMagic> nfc
Sep 06 02:04:07 <tmzt> yes
Sep 06 02:04:12 <PuffTheMagic> im not a debian person
Sep 06 02:04:14 <PuffTheMagic> i use gentoo
Sep 06 02:04:21 <PuffTheMagic> but i thought this would be quick
Sep 06 02:04:39 <PuffTheMagic> but this damn emulator is slow as hell
Sep 06 02:05:01 <zsoc> Ah yes, it seems to be lenny. Guess it's the same image I have then.
Sep 06 02:05:16 <tmzt> x86 emulator?
Sep 06 02:05:37 <PuffTheMagic> no qemu-arm
Sep 06 02:05:56 <PuffTheMagic> sid has dbus 1.2.16
Sep 06 02:06:05 <PuffTheMagic> but i havent seen a arm image for sid
Sep 06 02:06:14 <PuffTheMagic> so compile it is
Sep 06 02:06:33 <PuffTheMagic> too bad the upstart devs couldnt make a proper makefile
Sep 06 02:07:50 <zsoc> autotools to the rescue? :P
Sep 06 02:07:59 <PuffTheMagic> they are using autotools
Sep 06 02:08:06 <PuffTheMagic> but they fail
Sep 06 02:08:09 <PuffTheMagic> for cross compile
Sep 06 02:08:14 <tmzt> PuffTheMagic: you just debootstrap it
Sep 06 02:08:22 <PuffTheMagic> what?
Sep 06 02:08:30 <tmzt> debian sid
Sep 06 02:08:50 <PuffTheMagic> i just need to build dbus and its deps
Sep 06 02:08:57 <PuffTheMagic> and im on the dbus part now
Sep 06 02:09:09 <PuffTheMagic> but i dont think u realize how slow qemu-arm is
Sep 06 02:09:13 <tmzt> are you looking for an image?
Sep 06 02:09:17 <PuffTheMagic> it feels like a 300Mhz p3
Sep 06 02:09:19 <tmzt> I do
Sep 06 02:09:29 <tmzt> use qemubuilder
Sep 06 02:09:35 <tmzt> and kqemu
Sep 06 02:09:42 <tmzt> should be faster
Sep 06 02:10:08 <PuffTheMagic> i thoght i would give kvm a shot
Sep 06 02:10:11 * zsoc curses at the gst configure file
Sep 06 02:10:23 <tmzt> for arm?
Sep 06 02:10:32 <tmzt> not sure that works
Sep 06 02:10:44 <PuffTheMagic> yeah prob not
Sep 06 02:11:08 <tmzt> kqemu does because of the way it works
Sep 06 02:11:23 <PuffTheMagic> does virtualbox support arm?
Sep 06 02:11:25 <tmzt> it judt executes blicks of code
Sep 06 02:11:28 <tmzt> no
Sep 06 02:11:39 <PuffTheMagic> lame
Sep 06 02:14:01 <oc80z> whats good
Sep 06 02:15:11 <zsoc> arm seems to be a heavily neglected architecture in general
Sep 06 02:15:34 <tmzt> vbox is a pc emulator
Sep 06 02:15:54 <tmzt> it uses some qemu code but it's not qemu
Sep 06 02:16:21 <PuffTheMagic> thats not to say the couldnt add other arch support down the line
Sep 06 02:16:31 <PuffTheMagic> qemu didnt support everything initially
Sep 06 02:16:43 <tmzt> right
Sep 06 02:16:52 <tmzt> but it's a product
Sep 06 02:18:17 <Rick_home> and as a product, they only write stuff that pays.... :-)
Sep 06 02:18:21 <zsoc> i like how the configure file for gst doesn't check for pkg-config, but it won't build without it.
Sep 06 02:18:21 <Rick_home> trust me on this.
Sep 06 02:19:12 <rwhitby> heh - this kill switch is really scaring the people who "donated' $10 for mytether ...
Sep 06 02:21:17 <oil> haha
Sep 06 02:21:20 <Rick_home> kill switch?
Sep 06 02:21:23 <oil> well
Sep 06 02:21:24 <oil> its a donation
Sep 06 02:21:29 <oil> its not like they're paying for anything
Sep 06 02:21:45 <rwhitby> Rick_home: 1.2 has traces of remote disablement of apps
Sep 06 02:22:06 <Rick_home> ah
Sep 06 02:22:14 <Rick_home> well.
Sep 06 02:22:17 <Rick_home> hmm
Sep 06 02:22:26 <freakout> Still waiting for official comment from Palm on that.
Sep 06 02:22:32 <rwhitby> oil: the problem is that aonic has said "I'll always be able to make mytether work, no matter what changes"
Sep 06 02:22:36 <freakout> Sometimes I suspect their PR doesn't like me.
Sep 06 02:22:40 <Rick_home> I suppose a competant tethering app would disable the kill switch.  :-)
Sep 06 02:22:46 <zsoc> and now i can't umount my chroot :<
Sep 06 02:23:06 <rwhitby> zsoc: /proc still mounted?
Sep 06 02:23:21 <zsoc> rwhitby, proc went fine, i had to force /dev, and / won't umount
Sep 06 02:23:47 <rwhitby> zsoc: a process in the chroot still running?
Sep 06 02:24:10 <zsoc> rwhitby, er.. define 'running'? apt was complaining about something or other.. i'm pretty sure i killed it
Sep 06 02:24:50 <zsoc> nope, killed now.
Sep 06 02:26:04 <zsoc> Ok, now everyone umounts fine except /
Sep 06 02:26:46 <zsoc> the img is full, i mean i'm umounting it so i can resize it, should stop me from umounting no?
Sep 06 02:35:07 <Rick_home> really annoyed at the mojo documentation just now.
Sep 06 02:35:17 <Rick_home> REALLY REALLY annoyed at playSound()
Sep 06 02:35:21 <Rick_home> blarg.
Sep 06 02:35:39 <Rick_home> which Palm had included some decent clicks and pops and tings in playSound.
Sep 06 02:35:48 <Rick_home> -which + wish
Sep 06 02:36:37 <zsoc> ha, i've never seen someone use patch syntax
Sep 06 02:38:56 <tharris-> yeah that was funny
Sep 06 02:39:12 <tharris-> most use s/blah/blarg/
Sep 06 02:40:18 <zsoc> sed ftw
Sep 06 02:41:45 <Rick_home> s/blah/blarg  is a "recent" inovation in on-line chat.
Sep 06 02:42:02 <Rick_home> my fingers learned before that became the common parlance.
Sep 06 02:42:04 <zsoc> recent?
Sep 06 02:42:07 <destinal> rwhitby: it looks like from the text that the remove app is for recalling apps installed from the catalog
Sep 06 02:42:08 <Rick_home> nodnod
Sep 06 02:42:16 <rwhitby> yep
Sep 06 02:42:21 <zsoc> Hm.. I see the quotes... 8 years not recent enough? oldie
Sep 06 02:42:34 <Rick_home> zsoc:   I was moderating live on-line roleplaying  prior to 1982
Sep 06 02:42:44 <oil> destinal: but really, they're all just packages, right?
Sep 06 02:42:48 <Rick_home> and was participating in chat rooms prior to 1980
Sep 06 02:42:52 <rwhitby> destinal: but they wouldn't be allowed to talk about homebrew apps in webOS code anyway, so that's not definitive.
Sep 06 02:42:59 <Rick_home> is 30 years ago long enough?
Sep 06 02:43:09 <zsoc> Oldie indeed :)
Sep 06 02:43:36 <Rick_home> here's the sad thing.   There's a good chance that I was older _then_ than you are now......
Sep 06 02:43:37 <destinal> personally it bothers me that they can even do that.  shades of amazon w/ kindle
Sep 06 02:44:00 <destinal> Is this my device or Palm's?
Sep 06 02:44:18 <Rick_home> it's your device, but those are Palm's apps.  and it's SPRINT's network
Sep 06 02:44:22 <Rick_home> so.....
Sep 06 02:44:37 <oil> destinal: its palms
Sep 06 02:44:45 <oil> lol
Sep 06 02:44:47 <destinal> Rick_home: wrong on both counts
Sep 06 02:44:53 <Rick_home> you can HAVE your device,  and do anything you want with it.  unless you want to use THEIR apps, and Sprint's network.  In which case,   my bat, my ball, my rules.
Sep 06 02:45:04 <zsoc> You don't own anything or have any rights, deal with it :P
Sep 06 02:45:49 <destinal> Over my own infrastructure and using ANY carrier that still allows me to log in, Palm can decide what to pull back off my device?  People _should_ be concerned
Sep 06 02:46:18 <Rick_home> destinal:   that's their view.   You may disagree.   Feel free to patch away remote kill.
Sep 06 02:46:31 <oil> which im sure will be a patch released shortly after 1.2
Sep 06 02:46:37 <oil> (hell, or before like led notifications)
Sep 06 02:46:38 <Rick_home> hehehehehe  ya think?
Sep 06 02:46:41 <zsoc> destinal, Yes, but people aren't. They don't want to think for themselves. The whole world is socialist :P
Sep 06 02:46:44 <destinal> sure, but I'm offended by the erosion of assumed rights, people should be up in arms
Sep 06 02:47:02 <AnOutsider> probably because it rarely does anything
Sep 06 02:47:02 * oil gets pitchfork and rallies the townfolk
Sep 06 02:47:11 <AnOutsider> Gogole has it in Android I beleive, and Apple has it in the appstore
Sep 06 02:47:19 <AnOutsider> all the hissy0fits amounted to nothing
Sep 06 02:47:20 <destinal> oil: don't forget the torches
Sep 06 02:47:32 <oil> yeah
Sep 06 02:47:36 <oil> the townfolk will get those
Sep 06 02:47:50 <destinal> this is a _computer_
Sep 06 02:47:57 <oil> lol
Sep 06 02:48:23 <destinal> if apple started pulling this stuff on a mac, LOTS of people would be pissed
Sep 06 02:48:34 <AnOutsider> thats the thng
Sep 06 02:48:35 <oil> LOTS?
Sep 06 02:48:36 <Rick_home> yes destinal   we know.  8 gig linux box that happens to run a phone app if you really want to.
Sep 06 02:48:38 <Rick_home> we know.
Sep 06 02:48:38 <tharris-> remember it is a phone and they pull it on that
Sep 06 02:48:39 <AnOutsider> remote kill exists on the iphone
Sep 06 02:48:44 <oil> i didnt know that many people had mavs
Sep 06 02:48:50 <oil> macs*
Sep 06 02:49:01 <rwhitby> here's the thing - most people in the US don't pay full price for phones, so how can they expect the carriers and manufacturers to treat them like they do?
Sep 06 02:49:02 <Rick_home> apple DOES pull this stuff on iphones.
Sep 06 02:49:12 <destinal> oil: that's the thing, lots of people who didn't even BUY a mac would be pissed at the very idea
Sep 06 02:49:21 <oil> lol
Sep 06 02:49:44 <destinal> but people think, oh, phone, not computer.  it's wrongheaded thinking given the direction things are going, mobile devices will be our primary computing devices
Sep 06 02:50:08 <rwhitby> destinal: that's because your society has valued subsidies over ownership.
Sep 06 02:50:15 <Rick_home> so,  get a group of buddies and build one.
Sep 06 02:50:16 <oil> the pre is more powerful then my primary pc 2 pcs ago
Sep 06 02:50:19 <oil> xD
Sep 06 02:50:20 <Rick_home> oh yeah,  they tried that.
Sep 06 02:50:28 <zsoc> rwhitby, that subsidized cost comes from the carrier in exchange for a commission to the dealer. If you screw them on the service, they charge back the dealer. Carrier isn't giving you a thing.
Sep 06 02:50:38 * freakout wonders if he's too late to join the mob. Has shiny pitchfork
Sep 06 02:50:45 <oil> shiny?
Sep 06 02:50:49 <oil> you need to fight more battles with the man
Sep 06 02:50:52 <rwhitby> Rick_home: I have 4 openmoko devices :-)
Sep 06 02:50:52 <destinal> well, that's the thing, we will be able to opt-out, but it's still just a bad status quo, and I think people should be pissed at palm, that's all.
Sep 06 02:50:59 <AnOutsider> haha u guys are crazy
Sep 06 02:51:08 <AnOutsider> alright im doen fighting with ipkg installer, night folks
Sep 06 02:51:12 * Rick_home pitchfork is rusty and has horseshit on it...  all the better to cause tetnis with
Sep 06 02:51:21 <oil> haha
Sep 06 02:51:33 <Rick_home> rwhitby:   you and six other guys.
Sep 06 02:51:35 <Rick_home> :-)
Sep 06 02:51:51 <rwhitby> Rick_home: I didn't pay for any of mine ;-)
Sep 06 02:52:23 <destinal> palm pays lip service to open standards and open source and then quietly goes about building all the same control-stealing stuff apple did.
Sep 06 02:52:23 <freakout> destinal: The argument about the iPhone's draconian rules that goes "oh, it's like a video game console" infuriates me. No, it's a very capable mobile computer, Apple have just crippled it. /rant
Sep 06 02:52:24 <Rick_home> ahhhhhh  so all that subsidy talk is just hot air then?   People GIVE you phones because your SPECIAL  :-)   ((( GD&R )))
Sep 06 02:52:47 <rwhitby> destinal: I didn't think Palm has said anything about open source in their marketing.
Sep 06 02:53:04 <rwhitby> destinal: the community has said lots, but Palm has just used open source as a tool.
Sep 06 02:53:04 <Rick_home> nope   that's been all us.
Sep 06 02:53:42 <rwhitby> Rick_home: people give me phone so I can help create communities and infrastructure to support them :-)
Sep 06 02:53:56 <rwhitby> Rick_home: but Palm hasn't got the message about that yet ..
Sep 06 02:53:59 <Rick_home> like I said.  You're special..
Sep 06 02:54:06 <Rick_home> I know someone else like that
Sep 06 02:54:14 <Rick_home> teams just kind of crystalize around him.
Sep 06 02:54:20 <Rick_home> it's always amazing to watch
Sep 06 02:54:39 <destinal> freakout: actually
Sep 06 02:54:49 <destinal> freakout: the PSP is a very capable mobile computer too
Sep 06 02:54:54 <rwhitby> Rick_home: my main phone, I've always personally paid full unsubsidised price.
Sep 06 02:55:11 <rwhitby> My Treo 650 cost over AUD$1K
Sep 06 02:55:21 <oil> ouch
Sep 06 02:55:23 <nebula> ahhh
Sep 06 02:55:32 <rwhitby> I expect the Pre will cost AUD$900
Sep 06 02:55:38 <oil> and i only payed $1k for my car
Sep 06 02:55:46 <nebula> anyone elses battery door creaking like a mofo?
Sep 06 02:55:47 <oil> haha
Sep 06 02:56:03 <oil> nebula: mine does sometimes, but it was because of the "paper-hack"
Sep 06 02:56:12 <oil> i readjusted it in the back and it went away
Sep 06 02:56:18 <nebula> ugh mine is getting worse every day
Sep 06 02:56:30 <nebula> can't figure out where to put the electrical tape
Sep 06 02:56:46 <oil> in your ears?
Sep 06 02:56:48 <nebula> pretty soon i'm just gonna super glue the farker shut
Sep 06 02:56:53 <Abyssul> lol
Sep 06 02:56:57 <oil> lol
Sep 06 02:57:02 <Abyssul> Then when you need to remove the battery, your screwed
Sep 06 02:57:07 <Abyssul> and it WILL happen
Sep 06 02:57:33 <nebula> wellll
Sep 06 02:57:40 <nebula> that's why i do, because i have 3 batteries
Sep 06 02:57:42 <destinal> nebula: mine did until I got a touchstone, the touchstone back cover fixed that
Sep 06 02:57:47 <nebula> w00t
Sep 06 02:57:55 <nebula> touchstone ftw!
Sep 06 02:57:57 <nebula> double win
Sep 06 02:59:23 <corq-FL> yeh touchstone and the new back makes all the difference in the feel of the phone
Sep 06 02:59:46 <freakout> destinal: that is true. Actually pretty much anything can be, it's all about the parent company's attitude towards those who want to mod it
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 06 02:59:57 2009