**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 06 02:59:57 2009 Sep 06 03:00:18 destinal: In Palm's case, the way they've mostly kept out of the way of homebrewers is a big tick Sep 06 03:00:20 IMO Sep 06 03:01:08 not only kept out of its way Sep 06 03:01:20 but in an "application" sense Sep 06 03:01:23 taken from it Sep 06 03:01:41 like contacting developers on precentral to work with them to move their apps to the official catalog Sep 06 03:01:50 how is that? Sep 06 03:01:52 yeah, well they're going to deliver apps developed by the homebrew community, but only if the homebrew author stops making the code available any other way :( Sep 06 03:02:01 right Sep 06 03:02:25 not that i have an iphone or keep up on their "jailbreaking" apps Sep 06 03:02:30 that's status quo tho Sep 06 03:02:35 but have they ever looked to get one in their store? Sep 06 03:02:51 that's a good point Sep 06 03:03:05 i dont think is going to use the remote removal in a bad way, as open as everything is and as far as everything has gotten i dont think they will be ingnorant enough to piss of the community that is keeping them going Sep 06 03:03:05 they just try to kill everything that isnt official Sep 06 03:03:08 but apple is inundated with apps Sep 06 03:03:13 right Sep 06 03:03:20 apple just wants to control the world Sep 06 03:03:25 lol Sep 06 03:03:52 apple wants to, microsoft thinks they do, and google secretly does. Sep 06 03:03:59 haha Sep 06 03:04:13 seriously what is the point in having to activate a phone through a music app, its stupid Sep 06 03:04:14 theo: palm wants to control all app distribution for the OS they've made, and take a 30% cut from all sales. Sep 06 03:05:28 destinal: in their own right the deserve to earn some money, but i dont think they are going to remove homebrew to do it, dont forget many developers would also like to make money from their apps Sep 06 03:05:32 which is where apple started, but they locked things down in a pretty draconian manner (maybe partly because of the ATT subsidy profit % they gained by it) Sep 06 03:05:50 theo: nobody "deserves to earn some money" Sep 06 03:06:06 toushce Sep 06 03:06:36 but i have no problem with going through the app store once we actually get some apps that ill use Sep 06 03:07:33 but once they charge, i wont "download to check out" as many Sep 06 03:07:55 sure, but I think that developers shouldn't be required to agree to never distributing through another store. the homebrew community stuff seems to be exempted via the "test" clauses, maybe, but why shouldn't I be able to sell my apps anywhere I want? Sep 06 03:08:08 with all the bad press that apple got from pulling the google voice app, i dont think any other company is going to shoot themselves in the foot like that Sep 06 03:08:14 I am a bit disappointed they don't allow other stores. That's how it worked in the good ol' days of Palm OS. Sep 06 03:08:17 destinal, it's called .. a contract? Sep 06 03:08:25 er, or an exclusivity deal :) Sep 06 03:09:00 zsoc: it's a condition on the SDK EULA -- so if you never agree to a EULA for the SDK and never want to sell anything through their store, you could. Sep 06 03:09:08 But they've needed a central, official app repository for ages. Sep 06 03:09:11 err could sell somewhere else Sep 06 03:09:12 I see. Sep 06 03:09:21 ill be in and out, playing some cod...lol Sep 06 03:09:35 The multitude of third-party stores with bad interfaces was one of the reasons third-party apps never really took off for the masses on the original Palm OS. Sep 06 03:09:35 Ok, my chroot is complaining there's no space on device, but there's plenty of space on device, what is that about? Sep 06 03:10:22 zsoc: did you use a disk image loopmounted? and if so, how much space is free on the image file? Sep 06 03:10:26 * freakout is getting uncomfortable with the fence post up his clacker Sep 06 03:10:49 destinal, yes, and i just resized it from 500M to 1000M, so plenty. Sep 06 03:11:29 you resized the image file AND the ext3 fs? Sep 06 03:11:55 er... I assumed resize2fs would do both? Sep 06 03:12:02 eh, yeah I guess so Sep 06 03:12:10 so "df" shows enough space? Sep 06 03:12:12 i even ran fsck on it after Sep 06 03:12:26 df shows "cannot read table of mounted filesystems" :P Sep 06 03:12:37 no, a df from outside the chroot Sep 06 03:12:44 right Sep 06 03:13:01 no it shows 100% used Sep 06 03:13:02 odd Sep 06 03:13:17 did you unmount before resizing and mount again after? Sep 06 03:13:21 490575 used with 0 available. Sep 06 03:13:34 Yeah of course, it wouldn't have let me resize anyway while mounted, but yes funny unmounted Sep 06 03:14:56 strange, looks like the resize2fs didn't work right Sep 06 03:15:18 actually, e2fscking shows it didn't resize right at all Sep 06 03:15:19 hm Sep 06 03:15:30 * zsoc goes to troubleshoot, sorry for the bother Sep 06 03:17:48 woot Sep 06 03:21:05 Who was it in here looking for +speed options in the/a music player? Sep 06 03:28:11 ok, who's up for some Preware 0.8.2 alpha testing? Sep 06 03:28:41 always at the worse time Sep 06 03:28:43 yeah i'll bite Sep 06 03:28:53 er.. if glib ever finishes building Sep 06 03:32:51 am i testing something in particular? Sep 06 03:32:55 im down Sep 06 03:33:05 * zsoc rumages through the software Sep 06 03:33:08 just to make sure it doesnt blow anything up? Sep 06 03:33:41 zsoc: if it runs and can see apps then that's all we need to verify that it works on a non-preware-developer's Pre. Sep 06 03:33:49 rwhitby, what is with you and making these requests at lunchtime? :P Sep 06 03:33:51 rwhitby, looks good Sep 06 03:34:03 freakout: oil drove the timing of this one Sep 06 03:34:10 * freakout glares at oil Sep 06 03:34:15 hey, its lots better Sep 06 03:34:26 is it suppose to load faster? it seemed faster Sep 06 03:34:40 not supposed to Sep 06 03:34:43 zsoc: magic inca technology Sep 06 03:34:47 oil: no update probably Sep 06 03:34:54 it should default to every launch Sep 06 03:35:09 oh, just magic inca technology Sep 06 03:35:14 lol Sep 06 03:35:23 * freakout busts out the pan-pipes Sep 06 03:36:13 it'd be really good if someone runs 0.8.2, and then updates the wiki page with what they find from a user's perspective ... Sep 06 03:37:08 hm, ok it's broken Sep 06 03:37:10 or it's me Sep 06 03:37:11 Preware 0.8.2 is released. Sep 06 03:38:25 wait a minute Sep 06 03:38:29 he said it's broken Sep 06 03:38:35 and you said it is released Sep 06 03:38:35 oh i unbroke it Sep 06 03:38:39 there's somthing wrong there. Sep 06 03:38:42 :-) Sep 06 03:38:44 luckily enough it was me Sep 06 03:38:57 so seriously, where's the changelog? Sep 06 03:39:17 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=shortlog Sep 06 03:39:22 0.8.2. Looks good. (Runs for food.) Sep 06 03:40:21 another solid release. i like it. back to playing with fire now for me. Sep 06 03:41:34 feature suggestion: Allow you to immediately launch an app after installing it Sep 06 03:41:52 * rwhitby bbl Sep 06 03:44:09 * zsoc likes the config options Sep 06 03:46:30 Feature suggestion: Update all button? Sep 06 03:47:19 building glib on the pre is painful Sep 06 03:48:50 I'll test :D Sep 06 03:49:32 0.8.2 working great Sep 06 03:50:06 distinal: ping Sep 06 03:50:30 destinal: ping Sep 06 03:50:57 ameng1: hey Sep 06 03:51:48 the real world has an unfortunate way of creating distractions away from hacking ;) Sep 06 03:51:57 ameng1: how's it going over there? Sep 06 03:52:31 I want to pass dfb program name from js, but using (embed) object.src in js doesnot work Sep 06 03:53:42 not figure out why mmap does not work, changing dfb to use tmpfs file Sep 06 03:59:36 destinal: we spoke about feeds for preware... is there a place to upload closed-source app to a standard feed, or is it prefered to use seperate feed? Sep 06 04:00:21 abyssul: there used to be an update all button, did he take it out?? Sep 06 04:00:31 i think it was a wip though Sep 06 04:01:29 Zuchmir2: if the app is straight mojo, you can upload it to precentral if it's closed-source and requires binary, then there currently is no repository. Sep 06 04:01:43 i want to webos doctor my phone but really dont want to have to re-link all of my contacts (this took me about 5 hours and was no fun) - has anyone figured out how to backup/restore them? Sep 06 04:02:19 Mogren: you could just cp the database Sep 06 04:02:44 i've heard that doing that breaks the phone activation? Sep 06 04:02:46 Rick: it contains binary Sep 06 04:02:50 then put it back on after the restore Sep 06 04:03:01 hmmm I dont know Sep 06 04:03:35 that's why i was wondering, i set up a feed, but think it would be easier for users to NOT have to setup feed info as well Sep 06 04:03:42 could i copy the new db and just insert the rows i need and then overwrite it? what format is it? can i access it on the pc? Sep 06 04:03:54 ameng1: so you can create a method exposed through the npruntime to initialize the plugin and call it with a parameter for a program name Sep 06 04:03:59 sqlite3 Sep 06 04:04:03 i think Sep 06 04:04:40 ameng1: so basically the embedded plugin object has a callable method to initialize with a string of the program name Sep 06 04:04:43 Zuchmir2: I'm not sure we'd add a default feed to Preware which included closed source services or plguins. closed source webOS apps are no problem, as long as they don't use custom services or plugins. Sep 06 04:04:50 there are some possible security risks. Sep 06 04:05:13 of course any end-user can add a custom feed themselves using WebOS Quick Install's file transfer mechanism Sep 06 04:05:38 Zuchmir2: that was one of the ones where I figured you'd have to create your own feed and get them to add it since I don't think any of the existing feeds will host binary plugins Sep 06 04:05:43 so maybe let's modify the preware app to allow adding feed in the app (instead of going into novaterm)? Sep 06 04:06:00 Zuchmir2: that has been planned for a bit Sep 06 04:06:15 Zuchmir2: that's on the roadmap - we just need to work out how to make sure only a user can do it, and not a rogue webOS app adding a rogue feed. Sep 06 04:06:15 everyone wants to do it I think, just haven't gotten there yet Sep 06 04:06:34 rwhitby, turing question? Sep 06 04:07:00 zsoc: no, just the same secure informed user consent service that we currently employ for postinst and prerm scripts Sep 06 04:07:53 oic Sep 06 04:10:30 ok, so maybe a conf page which has 2 fields, 1) feed url and 2) unique id, and just do the equiv of: echo "src/gz $uniqueID http://$url" > //var/etc/ipkg/`echo $url|cut -d/ -f1`-uniqueID.conf Sep 06 04:10:44 ok, i hear the concern Sep 06 04:11:43 Zuchmir2: just /var/etc/ipkg/uniqueID.conf is enough - see the current set in ipkgservice 0.8.2 for examples of the convention. Sep 06 04:12:07 uniqueid should be recognisably related to the URL Sep 06 04:12:49 ok Sep 06 04:13:35 "configure: error: Need libxml2 for glib2 builds -- you should be able to do without it -- this needs fixing" <-- ok, are my eyes decieving me or is that a config error with a dev comment in it that says the error shouldn't exist? Sep 06 04:18:02 anyone know what a "D2GlobalInc" tweak format is? Sep 06 04:18:13 mentioned on http://www.precentral.net/webos-12-brings-led-notifications Sep 06 04:18:25 rwhitby: he makes sh scrips Sep 06 04:18:29 scripts Sep 06 04:18:44 just paste into terminal and it does the work for you Sep 06 04:18:56 I see. Sep 06 04:18:56 rwhitby: he makes "paste this into terminal" scripts Sep 06 04:19:03 sounds safe Sep 06 04:19:05 they're not actually sh scripts Sep 06 04:19:10 they're "past this" scripts. Sep 06 04:19:13 and they just wget from the repo? Sep 06 04:19:14 Oh, I thought they were Sep 06 04:19:15 paste Sep 06 04:19:22 mmm. copypasta Sep 06 04:19:31 they wget from his own website I think Sep 06 04:19:36 rwhitby: no, they just copy from a message in the precentral forums Sep 06 04:19:43 ugh Sep 06 04:20:01 so no safety at all. does he use patch or quilt or anything? Sep 06 04:20:17 is that really a "format"? i mean seriously. Sep 06 04:20:23 rwhitby: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/194531-howto-official-d2globalinc-1-1-0-howtos.html Sep 06 04:20:49 Ah yes, Rick you are right....I thought I remembed seeing bin/sh but I was wrong Sep 06 04:20:50 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/201581-official-d2-global-inc-1-2-0-howtos-update-status-thread.html Sep 06 04:21:05 no rwhitby no patch Sep 06 04:21:07 no quilt Sep 06 04:21:09 no nothing Sep 06 04:21:20 pure edit cut and paste scripts Sep 06 04:21:55 which is really helpful to super duper n00bs Sep 06 04:22:06 and lazy people such as me self ;) Sep 06 04:22:51 * zsoc facepalms Sep 06 04:22:54 does he have uninstall scripts too? Sep 06 04:23:07 Yes Sep 06 04:23:16 yes Sep 06 04:23:19 do they work? Sep 06 04:23:22 yes Sep 06 04:23:29 at the head of the howto links we just posted. Sep 06 04:23:35 has anybody come some similar to xml2json but html2json Sep 06 04:23:36 they're full of stuff liike Sep 06 04:23:40 # Sep 06 04:23:42 echo MAKING MODIFICATIONS TO compose-assistant.js - FIX BROKEN FORMATTING IN REPLY-FORWARD EMAILS - PART 1 Sep 06 04:23:44 sed -i "s/var splitIndex = originalText.indexOf(\" var splitIndex = originalText.indexOf(\" # Sep 06 04:23:58 seen something* Sep 06 04:26:03 basically his uninstalls just cp his backups back over his modified files Sep 06 04:26:14 Hm. This is an issue. at the rate i'm going with builds, if i keep having to fix dependency issues, my pre's battery is going to be dead in another hour. either my box doesn't supply enough current over usb, or pegging the pre's cpu at 500mhz for an hour is going to drain it no matter what. Sep 06 04:26:20 because sed works, and because his commands are well formed, basically the things work fine. Sep 06 04:26:23 * rwhitby bbl - good luck to d2globalinc - he and Jason keep the tweakers off our support load :-) Sep 06 04:26:33 lol Sep 06 04:26:39 not enough though rwhitby ;) Sep 06 04:27:16 zsoc: plug the pre into the palm supplied power supply with the palm supplied cable Sep 06 04:27:44 that will up the power transfer rate to 1 amp instead of .7 amps Sep 06 04:27:55 does "preload" have the safety mechanism you spoke of? Sep 06 04:28:43 Zuchmir2: I don't htink any of us have read through prload's code. Sep 06 04:28:45 Rick_home, .7? i would be surprised if my poor powersupply even had that going. Sep 06 04:29:03 so zsoc plug it into the wall. Sep 06 04:29:05 I don't think it's _possible_ to read through preload's code. Sep 06 04:29:16 Rick_home, can't, i'm connected through novacom :) Sep 06 04:29:38 zsoc: more the pitty you. next time, use a computer with a decent USB port. :-) Sep 06 04:29:45 Sorry, I was more making a comment or jest rather than asking for advice. But your advice is correct, I should plug it into the wall :P Sep 06 04:30:12 zsoc: next time, connect via wifi and plug into the wall. Sep 06 04:30:33 although I have talked to people who have experianced thermal shutdown of their pre on extended use. Sep 06 04:30:47 so you might think about sitting it on a cool pad of some sort. Sep 06 04:30:49 sometimes even the 1 watt isn't enough tho. i have people tell me their pre LOST some charge after being on all night. installed terminal, ps -e, and see all sorts of funny services running i don't recognize. Sep 06 04:31:01 people get crazy with filecoaster/preload and just install/run everything Sep 06 04:31:50 and my xml2lib make is breaking Sep 06 04:32:46 sorry guy Sep 06 04:33:36 i'm sure somehow it's my fault. Sep 06 04:33:45 i will get this to work. Sep 06 04:34:00 i'll show pops! i'll show everyone! Sep 06 04:47:53 is there's a better place to talk about a terminal bug? Sep 06 04:48:05 i can't find any listed developers/channels on the wiki Sep 06 04:48:49 uh Sep 06 04:48:56 destinal had something to do with terminal Sep 06 04:49:05 idk if hes here right now or not Sep 06 04:49:08 or who else worked on it Sep 06 04:49:10 those sentences didn't really make sense together, maybe i'm just sleep deprived Sep 06 04:49:33 he had everything to do with terminal until the last few releases, and he could tell you who those people are i'm sure Sep 06 04:49:58 and, is it a bug, or a feature? Sep 06 04:50:04 mike: what's the bug? Sep 06 04:50:28 * zsoc thinks it's a mis-feature Sep 06 04:50:37 lol Sep 06 04:50:38 it's a bug. twice i've installed terminal via preware and when i launch the application, it hangs. not text, no prompt, etc. Sep 06 04:50:49 you need the terminal plugin Sep 06 04:50:54 * oil could have answered that Sep 06 04:50:58 the second time i did a clean install via webos doctor, and had the same result Sep 06 04:51:07 did you install the terminal plugin? Sep 06 04:51:19 doublechecking Sep 06 04:51:36 we really need to get dependencies working in preware xD Sep 06 04:52:18 oil, speaking of which, where would one even start with something like that? just a standardized checking script imbedded in each app? Sep 06 04:52:34 really Sep 06 04:52:39 we get teh dependency list Sep 06 04:52:43 it just isnt using it Sep 06 04:52:49 because of postinst/prerem scripts Sep 06 04:53:16 the postinst for java services are restarting java Sep 06 04:53:19 is the latest preware blocking other feeds? Sep 06 04:53:42 so if you try to install the app, it trys to install the service, which restarts java, and the ipkg service, and it never installs the app Sep 06 04:53:56 ah Sep 06 04:54:00 Zuchmir2: no? Sep 06 04:54:00 oil: yeah, terminal service plugin is installed Sep 06 04:54:15 if its installed, then im not sure why its not working Sep 06 04:54:23 i'm pretty sure it's bug ;-) Sep 06 04:54:25 holy crap i think my libxml2 finally made. Sep 06 04:54:51 mikeDOTd, er.. did you try.. uninstalling them both, and reinstalling them in the correct order and newest versions? Sep 06 04:54:56 this feed was working for me last week, but not after upgrading: http://www.shiur.org/pda/palm-pre/feed Sep 06 04:55:05 um Sep 06 04:55:11 i had a similar "bug" to that during an update, almost seems like an order version Sep 06 04:55:15 is the configuration still in the filder? Sep 06 04:55:16 zsoc: i haven't, but i'll try installing the plugin first this time Sep 06 04:55:17 folder*? Sep 06 04:55:28 mike: you may need to pkill LunaSysMngr Sep 06 04:55:48 Zuchmir2: i've rebooted since the install Sep 06 04:55:52 idk if an update to the ipkgservice removes manual configs or not Sep 06 04:56:02 the feed is still there Sep 06 04:56:30 huh Sep 06 04:56:45 i cant think of any reason it wouldnt show up Sep 06 04:56:48 i mean the conf to the feed is still there Sep 06 04:56:58 yeah Sep 06 04:57:14 let me test it in the emulator Sep 06 04:57:45 if i go into available apps -> feeds, i don't see the feed listed Sep 06 04:58:15 from the main scene does it appear in appmenu->list configs Sep 06 04:58:43 under WebOS-Internals Feed (all) i see terminal listed, but not terminal service plugin. When I try to remove terminal service plugin via preware, it gives me a message saying "Preware doesn't currently support removal of plugins. Pleas use WebOS Quick Install to remove this plugin." Sep 06 04:59:01 mikeDOTd remove it with quick install Sep 06 04:59:11 oil: it's not listed under quick install Sep 06 04:59:17 huh Sep 06 04:59:25 list-configs shows the conf file Sep 06 04:59:57 oil: ah wait, it's under the WebOS-Internals (Pre) feed Sep 06 05:00:34 god i wish i knew some sort of god i could pray to while running builds Sep 06 05:00:38 Zuchmir2 whats the name of the app? Sep 06 05:01:13 oil: thanks. installing the terminal plugin via quick installs seems to have fixed it. Sep 06 05:01:33 there's only one app there Sep 06 05:01:41 i mean, whats its "title" Sep 06 05:01:45 i can see its id Sep 06 05:01:56 (im going to see if its in the list of everything) Sep 06 05:02:31 Jewish Books Sep 06 05:03:29 it should be in the "Books" category - that's where it was yesterday Sep 06 05:03:56 huh Sep 06 05:04:00 * oil sees it there :/ Sep 06 05:04:55 you're running ipkgservice and preware 0.8.2? Sep 06 05:05:24 you're sure you got the line right in the .conf file? Sep 06 05:05:53 i followed instructions of "Installing via IPKG" (on http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Preware) Sep 06 05:06:09 cat /var/etc/ipkg/org.shiur.conf : src/gz org.shiur.armv7 http://www.shiur.org/pda/palm-pre/feed Sep 06 05:07:07 Apparently iphone pictures save gps coordinates in the exif data of photos? if that's true, that's terrible. Sep 06 05:07:41 Zuchmir2: i really dont know what to tell you Sep 06 05:08:05 after appmenu->update feeds from the main scene, its still not there? Sep 06 05:09:27 gonna try ipk remove;ipk install fresh ... Sep 06 05:09:30 0.8.2 broke it D: Sep 06 05:10:15 its just weird it works for me but not him Sep 06 05:10:17 with the same setup Sep 06 05:10:37 Who was it that warned me it's ridiculous to try to build things on the pre, speed wise? Sep 06 05:11:47 doing update feeds... still doesn't show :-( Sep 06 05:12:12 iol: how many "Books" did you see (in category books) Sep 06 05:12:13 anything appearing in /var/log/messages? Sep 06 05:12:19 2 Sep 06 05:12:56 yours and "simple lds scriptures" Sep 06 05:14:40 hmm, i can see the server spitting out: 200 for Packages.gz, but nothing on my pre Sep 06 05:15:00 var/log/messages: nothing Sep 06 05:16:12 luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/info {package:"org.JewishContent.JewishBook"} Sep 06 05:16:14 anything? Sep 06 05:17:16 it shows up Sep 06 05:17:20 hmm Sep 06 05:17:26 oh Sep 06 05:17:27 stupid me Sep 06 05:17:36 you're running 0.8.2 of preware, right? Sep 06 05:17:43 yeah Sep 06 05:17:45 it defaults to not show installed apps as "available" Sep 06 05:17:52 * zsoc just said that :P Sep 06 05:17:52 it should appear in installed, and in the list of everything Sep 06 05:18:05 you can change the preference to show installed as available Sep 06 05:18:13 from the appmenu>preferences in the main scene Sep 06 05:18:23 then itl appear in the books category again Sep 06 05:18:51 maybe i shouldnt have defaulted that option to false Sep 06 05:18:56 ok, :-) Sep 06 05:19:34 i didnt even think that you would have had it installed already Sep 06 05:19:43 and that it wouldnt have appeared Sep 06 05:19:58 i have no problem with it Sep 06 05:20:11 it makes more sense to not show installed as available Sep 06 05:20:22 one thing i will tell you tho, a lot of people consider 'total apps' to be 'total apps', and they might think they are missing a feed, that's what i thought at first Sep 06 05:20:44 available applications is different for everyone Sep 06 05:21:05 depending on how many catalog apps and other non-feed apps you have installed Sep 06 05:21:44 emulator shows 192 for me my pre says 177 Sep 06 05:22:00 (with installed as available off) Sep 06 05:22:26 yeah, that fixed it, when debugging stuff, and things change, u can go crazy trying to find where something broke Sep 06 05:22:38 lol Sep 06 05:22:42 it wasnt broken Sep 06 05:22:44 that was a new feature Sep 06 05:22:45 xD Sep 06 05:23:09 true Sep 06 05:23:13 for ME it was broken (ie i didn't see MY feed) Sep 06 05:23:19 lol Sep 06 05:23:31 that luna send is what made it click Sep 06 05:23:36 that ipkgservice found it Sep 06 05:23:46 ... and i'm trying changes on the server etc ... :-) Sep 06 05:24:02 hopefully we'll get feed management into preware soonish Sep 06 05:24:56 i guess if i pasted: "Status":"install user installed", someone may have picked it up Sep 06 05:25:33 it doesn't sound like feed managment is a real option, as preventing rogue app is almost imporssible Sep 06 05:26:12 ...unless u do confirmation dialog like postinst Sep 06 05:26:21 yeah Sep 06 05:26:31 we're afraid of an app installing a feed? Sep 06 05:27:13 hmm, i wonder if a rogue app can mimic pressing "OK" to that dialog? Sep 06 05:27:18 yeah Sep 06 05:27:38 i dont think it can Sep 06 05:27:48 the service calls that app specifically Sep 06 05:27:51 and passes it a hash Sep 06 05:28:07 when you press a button, it returns that hash with the confirm true/false Sep 06 05:28:47 in case anyone asks, it takes 28 minutes to build gst on a pre. Sep 06 05:29:09 ill be sure to remember that Sep 06 05:29:35 and a rogue app can't send a "true"? Sep 06 05:29:56 would the rogue app know the hash? Sep 06 05:30:51 i'm not sure if the app gets that info somewhere Sep 06 05:31:03 i would also hope not Sep 06 05:31:45 well the service generates it and sends it itself Sep 06 05:31:46 I noticed the Sysfs Battery Service listed in Preware. Are there currently any applications using this service? Sep 06 05:31:56 so i dont know where the rogue app would get it Sep 06 05:32:10 WillJitsu: i dont think so Sep 06 05:32:13 PuffTheMagic would know Sep 06 05:32:30 WillJitsu: no not yet Sep 06 05:32:36 ok thanks Sep 06 05:32:57 * oil wonders what said service/app will do Sep 06 05:33:28 oil: it could show all the info Sep 06 05:33:45 but how useful is that info Sep 06 05:33:54 the battery info? Sep 06 05:33:57 yeah Sep 06 05:34:08 more then where is it between 0 to 100% Sep 06 05:34:12 ... since the basic info is in the status bar Sep 06 05:34:21 well Sep 06 05:34:26 maybe it knows how fast its charging Sep 06 05:34:29 charing rate Sep 06 05:34:30 "eta to 100%" Sep 06 05:34:34 voltage Sep 06 05:34:37 that would be pretty cool Sep 06 05:34:43 current Sep 06 05:34:51 lots of info Sep 06 05:35:02 * oil would write mojo Sep 06 05:35:25 * oil is really waiting for irc service Sep 06 05:35:33 u can start on the gui Sep 06 05:35:42 for what? Sep 06 05:35:43 you dont need to wait for service Sep 06 05:35:47 to implement most of it Sep 06 05:35:52 yeah Sep 06 05:35:59 but most of it is interaction with the service Sep 06 05:36:06 no Sep 06 05:36:07 writing code to push scenes/etc is nothing Sep 06 05:36:12 most of it is displaying content Sep 06 05:36:16 and organizing it well Sep 06 05:36:22 yeah Sep 06 05:36:24 small part is getting the info Sep 06 05:36:25 ;) Sep 06 05:36:27 we need an old woman focus group Sep 06 05:36:35 lol Sep 06 05:36:37 no Sep 06 05:36:47 its for the uber nerd Sep 06 05:36:53 lol Sep 06 05:36:57 so i think i just broke my pre Sep 06 05:37:01 i think we already agree on how its to work Sep 06 05:37:09 i will need some people to scp me some file Sep 06 05:37:09 multiple scenes for each channel/pm Sep 06 05:37:12 err Sep 06 05:37:14 ompload them Sep 06 05:37:21 if they have 1.1.2 Sep 06 05:37:29 1.1.2? Sep 06 05:37:30 or what ever is the pre-1.2 update Sep 06 05:37:36 what ever is latest Sep 06 05:37:36 1.1? Sep 06 05:37:39 sure Sep 06 05:37:45 ompload? Sep 06 05:37:50 :D Sep 06 05:37:55 ompload is awesome Sep 06 05:38:04 webosdoctor image? Sep 06 05:38:15 i guess Sep 06 05:40:18 fuck Sep 06 05:40:25 now it really hosed Sep 06 05:40:37 sux :( Sep 06 05:40:53 can it show input current while chargin? Sep 06 05:40:54 all cause oil cant scp/ompload me 3 files Sep 06 05:41:10 3 files? Sep 06 05:41:19 * oil never saw any talk about what files they were Sep 06 05:41:24 but yeah, my pre isnt "rooted" Sep 06 05:41:29 its a virgin Sep 06 05:42:39 root your damn pre Sep 06 05:42:43 lol Sep 06 05:43:23 oil: how do u install stuff on there w/o rooting? Sep 06 05:43:44 novaterm is all it takes Sep 06 05:44:17 palm-install or webosquickinstall Sep 06 05:44:28 or now, preware Sep 06 05:44:41 * oil is aunt minnie Sep 06 05:44:43 xD Sep 06 05:44:51 so seriously... Sep 06 05:44:55 someone with a pre save me Sep 06 05:44:58 :) Sep 06 05:44:59 thatis rooted Sep 06 05:45:01 Zuchmir2 to the rescue Sep 06 05:45:09 tar.gz your /sbin Sep 06 05:45:15 and send it to me Sep 06 05:45:16 :D Sep 06 05:45:39 like i said before, can't you just get that stuff out of the doctor rootfs image? Sep 06 05:45:47 not sure i have the latest OS Sep 06 05:46:00 1.1? Sep 06 05:46:02 1.1.0 Sep 06 05:46:04 its been out a while Sep 06 05:46:06 i need something that dont segfaultt Sep 06 05:46:14 1.2 was leaked, not released Sep 06 05:49:37 ok no segfault nows Sep 06 05:49:43 ftw Sep 06 05:51:14 oil: so im gonna make an upstart service Sep 06 05:51:19 wanna make a mojo for it :D Sep 06 05:51:27 upstart service? Sep 06 05:51:31 mw: did you ever get anywhere with the yahoo Sep 06 05:51:38 oil: listen to upstart events Sep 06 05:51:42 start stop services Sep 06 05:51:47 respawn shit Sep 06 05:51:49 ah Sep 06 05:51:56 what does the mojo need to do? Sep 06 05:52:01 can even emit events Sep 06 05:52:14 well at the very min, allow people start start or stop any service on the system Sep 06 05:52:20 ah Sep 06 05:52:24 including apps? Sep 06 05:52:28 no Sep 06 05:52:34 things with event.d file Sep 06 05:52:38 oh Sep 06 05:52:46 sure Sep 06 05:52:48 ill do the mojo Sep 06 05:53:34 lol Sep 06 05:53:41 my led service likes to die Sep 06 05:53:49 what a list of stuff thats running Sep 06 05:53:52 there must be a bug Sep 06 05:53:52 and a on off button Sep 06 05:54:16 oil: start/stop/restart/zap Sep 06 05:54:23 zap? Sep 06 05:54:34 zap is like a stop + killall Sep 06 05:54:43 ah Sep 06 05:54:57 so Sep 06 05:55:01 a list with 4 buttons on the side? Sep 06 05:55:06 on the side of each list item* Sep 06 05:55:18 * zsoc has difficultly believing the amount of libraries and common dependencies that _aren't_ available for arm* Sep 06 05:55:27 yeah thats a start Sep 06 05:55:34 start? Sep 06 05:55:39 liboil this time :P Sep 06 05:56:02 oil: well i dont know everything it can / should do Sep 06 05:56:11 ever time i write an app it evolves Sep 06 05:56:13 lol Sep 06 05:58:37 also need to make a process monitor Sep 06 05:58:38 like top Sep 06 05:58:41 for the Pre Sep 06 05:58:42 :D Sep 06 05:58:52 apps? Sep 06 05:59:06 what about apps? Sep 06 05:59:14 idk Sep 06 05:59:16 something! Sep 06 05:59:30 oil: like the screen you get when u press ctrl+alt+del in windows Sep 06 05:59:36 or if u type top in linux Sep 06 05:59:40 or ps -A Sep 06 05:59:42 * oil knows what top is Sep 06 05:59:42 lol Sep 06 05:59:51 well i want something like in mojo too Sep 06 05:59:57 with a way to kill processes Sep 06 06:00:00 its a good idea Sep 06 06:00:01 and see what is running Sep 06 06:00:02 lets do it Sep 06 06:00:06 with how much mem and cpu usage Sep 06 06:00:10 etc.. Sep 06 06:00:16 * oil waits for service Sep 06 06:00:17 xD Sep 06 06:00:24 ridiculous question. where is $HOME if only a root user exists on a system? Sep 06 06:00:40 usually /root Sep 06 06:00:44 but not on the pre Sep 06 06:10:47 i'm very excited right now Sep 06 06:11:09 it's /home/root I think Sep 06 06:12:17 PuffTheMagic: why not just untar the rootfs image in the doctor? Sep 06 06:12:23 /var/home/root Sep 06 06:12:23 /var/home/root Sep 06 06:12:27 oh someone already asked that Sep 06 06:12:46 i thought i did that and it broke it more Sep 06 06:12:50 but its all good now Sep 06 06:13:07 destinal: i asked that at least twice Sep 06 06:13:12 i'm about to find out if my painstakingly manual effort of building a local unstripped fully featured version of gstreamer can build plugins properly, and port them to the pre. If this works, I should be able to build any plugin that gstreamer can handle as of 0.10.20 that the pre hardware supports, and cp it from my chroot. Sep 06 06:13:13 yeah, nothing different is on my pre than is in that image Sep 06 06:13:35 it's where it all came from Sep 06 06:13:37 :P Sep 06 06:14:38 zsoc: is this harder than just cross compiling gstreamer for arm? Sep 06 06:18:41 would it be feasable for an app to be able to change the order of the apps on the launcher through the database that keeps the order of them. Sep 06 06:19:05 maybe? Sep 06 06:20:07 it's in a json file IIRC Sep 06 06:20:24 know the location? Sep 06 06:20:26 the db that keeps the file is an sqlite db, i just have no idea how to get an app to be able to change the values within the db Sep 06 06:20:32 yeah just a sec Sep 06 06:20:52 can you just run sql commands to it from the command line? Sep 06 06:21:17 dont have much experiance with db, you would have to tell me...lol Sep 06 06:21:18 (i mean, to query the database, etc) Sep 06 06:21:31 oh i dont know Sep 06 06:21:35 im just asking a general question Sep 06 06:21:57 the db is located here /var/palm/data/file_.usr.lib.luna.system.luna-applauncher_0 Sep 06 06:22:33 it contains all the values for each apps locations and the different pages Sep 06 06:23:15 whats a query you would run? Sep 06 06:23:22 but to be able to implement something like that into quick install would be great Sep 06 06:23:30 you would have to talk to jason about that Sep 06 06:24:01 whats the table name? Sep 06 06:24:13 ok. i have to go to sleep, my head is a'sploding. things are looking up. later all Sep 06 06:24:42 just a sec.... Sep 06 06:25:28 that file is only 1 byte? Sep 06 06:25:43 * oil is thinking thats not the right file Sep 06 06:26:06 it contains an "S" in the emulator Sep 06 06:26:14 hi all! Sep 06 06:26:18 hey Sep 06 06:26:44 on my pre it is 20,480 bytes Sep 06 06:26:48 huh Sep 06 06:27:04 well, you can run commands with sqlite3 [filename] [sql] Sep 06 06:27:19 whats a good irc client for windows? Sep 06 06:27:32 * oil uses the irc plugin built into trillian Sep 06 06:27:33 i been using mirc but dont like it Sep 06 06:27:45 i heard pidgin is ok? Sep 06 06:27:58 hum thanks oil... Sep 06 06:28:02 i dont know much about irc Sep 06 06:28:16 right now i am on xchat kinda cool i just hated mirc Sep 06 06:28:50 everything is under the properties table Sep 06 06:29:20 im sure jason could write something that did that Sep 06 06:29:24 but you would have to talk to him about it Sep 06 06:29:37 i will have to do that Sep 06 06:29:47 he would probably think it was an awesome idea Sep 06 06:29:51 especially if you showed up with all the info Sep 06 06:29:57 example queries to move shit around Sep 06 06:29:58 what not Sep 06 06:30:16 what are you trying to do theo? Sep 06 06:30:26 once the issue with running out of room for apps is fixed its going to become a pain to rearrange them Sep 06 06:31:12 i was thinking that there should be a way to rearrange the icons on the launcher page by changing the db file that keeps the setting Sep 06 06:31:28 * oil is sure its possible using hte sqlite3 command Sep 06 06:31:50 possibly having it implemented into quick install or even a seperate app on the pc Sep 06 06:32:38 i think its a great idea Sep 06 06:32:48 moving icons on the pre is slow Sep 06 06:32:52 it would save so much time Sep 06 06:33:26 hes not on aim or i would tell him to get in here and talk Sep 06 06:34:11 i just wish i knew more about sql, never been a fan of the db Sep 06 06:35:13 theo: the language you mean? Sep 06 06:35:14 oil: was thinking re: feeds... Sep 06 06:35:23 yeah Sep 06 06:35:44 or well anything to do with a database Sep 06 06:35:50 it comes in handy -- lots and lots of db engines implement some version of SQL Sep 06 06:35:54 maybe have the service wget a list of feeds from a central location, and let user choose which feed s/he wants Sep 06 06:36:16 but then its still controlled Sep 06 06:36:30 we dont want people to be able to add their own arbitrary feeds? Sep 06 06:36:32 yeah ive used them here and there just try not to get to involed with them, Sep 06 06:36:37 so like select multiple apps at once to move from page to page on launcher Sep 06 06:37:23 * oil <<3 sql Sep 06 06:37:24 controlled/centralised, i.e. anyone can contrib a feed Sep 06 06:37:40 that or actaully be able to see the sepereate pages on the pc with the app icons in the same order as on the phone, and rearrange on the pc with a mouse so it is actually quick Sep 06 06:37:53 and user chooses which feed they want (it's alot easier for aunt minie to choose a feed than go into novaterm...) Sep 06 06:38:21 ive been looking at this for a week or so, i have in my head what i think it should look like, just not the knowledge to create it Sep 06 06:38:22 what if its a company who wants to have their own custom software and use preware to keep all their phones updated? Sep 06 06:38:28 they would have to put their feed on that thing?> Sep 06 06:38:32 there are less security implications w/a controlled feed Sep 06 06:38:47 let them do it manualy Sep 06 06:38:54 ok Sep 06 06:39:13 i'm not preventing manual .conf, i just want simple adding of feeds Sep 06 06:39:23 ... which are for public Sep 06 06:40:00 yeah, it would work Sep 06 06:40:16 the service can then spi out a NUMBERED list to the app, the app sends back the number selected, and the service adds the URL Sep 06 06:40:53 IMHO that would be quite safe from rouge app (unless the rogue app spooks DNS :) Sep 06 06:41:06 s/spooks/spoofs/ Sep 06 06:41:06 Zuchmir2 meant: IMHO that would be quite safe from rouge app (unless the rogue app spoofs DNS :) Sep 06 06:42:49 it's also less prone to error Sep 06 06:43:33 * oil goes to convenience store, brb Sep 06 06:54:14 according to http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Update_1.2.0 * There is a "Send all to Car Kit" option in the Contacts Application now Sep 06 06:54:19 is this OBEX? Sep 06 06:54:34 it is there, havent tested not sure what it does Sep 06 06:56:21 hmmm obex would be cool. Sep 06 07:02:41 here is the idea i have for what an app to rearrange the launcher pages could look like http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7881/screenshotlb.jpg Sep 06 07:03:41 well with that many apps who would need an app to sort them? Sep 06 07:03:42 xD Sep 06 07:03:51 lol Sep 06 07:04:37 but really most of us have 40+ apps, it get hold having to hold your finger down, then wait for the pages to change....aaahhh Sep 06 07:04:53 *it gets Sep 06 07:05:18 lol Sep 06 07:05:30 how many pages you got? Sep 06 07:05:40 before i reflashed i have 7 Sep 06 07:05:58 im very picky about the order of apps...lol Sep 06 07:06:12 wow Sep 06 07:06:13 ive got 3 Sep 06 07:06:22 i did the patch to add more too Sep 06 07:06:24 but never added more Sep 06 07:06:30 unable to decide what to put on the new pages Sep 06 07:06:36 i have 5 pages Sep 06 07:06:43 used to have more before i did 4x4 tweak Sep 06 07:06:45 but with the 4x4 they all fit in 3 pages nicely Sep 06 07:06:48 i thnk i had 7 Sep 06 07:06:56 page 1 is palms apps / palm catalog apps Sep 06 07:07:00 page 2 is homebrew Sep 06 07:07:03 so i have most of the system setting apps preisntalled i never use in the last page Sep 06 07:07:05 page 3 is settings/ apps i never look at Sep 06 07:07:12 then default useful apps in onepage Sep 06 07:07:14 right now i have four, but it will get higher with the more i install Sep 06 07:07:16 then app catalog apps in one Sep 06 07:07:22 jack: thats where i put those too Sep 06 07:07:24 and one for favorits sites and people i call Sep 06 07:07:26 i only have a few apps from palms store Sep 06 07:07:30 and one for homebrew Sep 06 07:08:24 ya. Sep 06 07:08:49 i think i will talk to jason about that, it would be worth having if its possible Sep 06 07:08:58 i was i think the second or third person to try the new pages it was my screen shot they used in the precentral blog haha been doing it since i bought my pre Sep 06 07:09:03 it be ncie if jason can pull that off Sep 06 07:09:48 all you would need to do in the databse is cause it to change the values of the apps Sep 06 07:10:37 how are the apps organized Sep 06 07:10:49 i assume it has 2 numbers Sep 06 07:10:55 page and order Sep 06 07:10:59 i guess figure it out turn it to a gui setup with an apply button when apply is pressed rewrite the database entry Sep 06 07:11:11 im posting a screen shot of the db right now Sep 06 07:11:25 ya Sep 06 07:11:29 good call oil Sep 06 07:11:36 3 numbers Sep 06 07:11:38 page Sep 06 07:11:39 row Sep 06 07:11:40 colom Sep 06 07:11:47 i dont think row or column matters Sep 06 07:11:59 you can't skip a row or column when you place an app Sep 06 07:11:59 why not? Sep 06 07:12:09 its actually different than that, look here http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8972/screenshot2a.jpg Sep 06 07:12:31 left right and name? Sep 06 07:12:32 wtf? Sep 06 07:12:49 makes 0 sense Sep 06 07:12:52 bad database design Sep 06 07:13:12 huh Sep 06 07:13:20 its freaking weird Sep 06 07:13:26 i cant make sense of it Sep 06 07:13:31 have you yet theo? Sep 06 07:13:55 i would talk to aonic Sep 06 07:13:56 each has 2 numbers, for containers the first is where the last container (page) left off, the second is a number right after the second number of the last app Sep 06 07:14:06 yeah i know how it works Sep 06 07:14:13 he is very good at database sql and such Sep 06 07:15:31 so if a container (page) for instance 26, 43, the first app on that page is 27, 28, and the last app is 41, 42 Sep 06 07:16:26 it doesnt seem very sensible but thats how it is Sep 06 07:16:28 each page can have i think.. as many apps as you want? Sep 06 07:16:32 i really think page and order would make more sense Sep 06 07:16:35 maybe thats just me Sep 06 07:17:16 thats what it seems to be, and when you change an app everything below it in the db changes but everything above it stays the same, its very odd Sep 06 07:17:31 yeah Sep 06 07:18:08 i guess the queries would be easier this way? Sep 06 07:18:10 so is every set of numbers 0-10 is a page? Sep 06 07:18:14 less things in the where clause Sep 06 07:18:21 under the name Sep 06 07:18:33 yes Sep 06 07:19:03 update left=left+1, right=right+1 where left>(whereever the app is dropped) Sep 06 07:19:04 but each page goes up incrementally Sep 06 07:19:49 instead of update order=order+1 where order > (where the app was placed) and page=1 Sep 06 07:19:53 so the first page is 0, the second page is 1, and so on, but each app is numbered 1-10 Sep 06 07:20:24 wonder what those other values are Sep 06 07:20:27 phone numbers? websites? Sep 06 07:20:37 you got two of them on page 1 Sep 06 07:20:59 ooh, i forget, let me check Sep 06 07:21:31 container type is array? Sep 06 07:21:41 huh Sep 06 07:22:19 they are sprint apps Sep 06 07:22:31 weird Sep 06 07:22:56 yeah Sep 06 07:23:00 probably websites Sep 06 07:23:14 (i know the sprint app called "sprint" goes to a website) Sep 06 07:23:23 the one straight off the phone refers to the sprint icon as 1202208 Sep 06 07:23:28 hey, you've got the xbl friends app installed xD Sep 06 07:23:59 some day ill make that app better Sep 06 07:24:00 lol Sep 06 07:24:00 oh yeah, i live by that app... i always know when to turn on the box, i runs almost 24/7 when im at home Sep 06 07:24:18 i never touched it since originally creating it Sep 06 07:24:18 it does everything i need Sep 06 07:24:29 except to fix the list for 1.1 Sep 06 07:24:43 i had planned on adding notifications of signons for users you select Sep 06 07:24:54 i could write it much much better today Sep 06 07:24:54 lol Sep 06 07:24:54 that would be cool Sep 06 07:25:39 hell Sep 06 07:25:49 i still need to prep dotgame for palms catalog Sep 06 07:25:55 ive been too busy on preware lately Sep 06 07:27:56 i gotta get my better flashlight app into one of these feeds Sep 06 07:28:13 you have a better flashiligh oil Sep 06 07:28:19 id love to see it in action Sep 06 07:29:02 lol Sep 06 07:29:04 its like the other one Sep 06 07:29:11 but instead of a little hard-to-hit toggle box Sep 06 07:29:13 its the whole screen Sep 06 07:29:14 dot game is awesome bt the way Sep 06 07:29:19 uses its service Sep 06 07:29:19 im gonna crash, if someone gets on that might be able to do something with those bd files throw it by them, ill leave irc up if they want to shoot me a pm ill get back with them in the morning Sep 06 07:29:25 http://i29.tinypic.com/2i6mofa.png Sep 06 07:29:34 *db Sep 06 07:29:34 any idea of ajusting brightnes Sep 06 07:29:47 or even abele to toggle on off quickly Sep 06 07:29:48 no Sep 06 07:29:50 its just on or off Sep 06 07:29:53 it toggles relatively fast Sep 06 07:30:08 as fast as you can tap it Sep 06 07:30:19 oh, you mean like a strobe option? Sep 06 07:30:20 well Sep 06 07:30:20 lol Sep 06 07:30:26 what if you tapped with two fingers Sep 06 07:30:30 space for oen Sep 06 07:30:42 so as you are releasing one finger you are begging to tap with the other Sep 06 07:30:48 there is no 2 finger tap event listener Sep 06 07:30:58 strobe options was going to be next question Sep 06 07:31:11 right now i am thinking... shit whats the word Sep 06 07:31:28 idk how fast it can turn it on and off like that Sep 06 07:31:28 no not to tap at same time Sep 06 07:31:34 i just did the 2 finger tap back and forth Sep 06 07:31:37 for a little while Sep 06 07:31:39 after i was done Sep 06 07:31:45 how did it go Sep 06 07:31:46 it was still flashing for a little bit Sep 06 07:31:46 haha Sep 06 07:31:55 considering your button is entire screen it should do that Sep 06 07:31:58 hahaha ok Sep 06 07:32:09 haha see tapping at double speed Sep 06 07:32:16 intresting Sep 06 07:32:26 i think the strobe could only go so fast Sep 06 07:32:32 ya Sep 06 07:32:37 or it would add all this time after you turned it off Sep 06 07:32:51 how about brightness settings Sep 06 07:33:08 idk if the service does anything with that Sep 06 07:33:08 any chance of that Sep 06 07:33:11 it just has on and off Sep 06 07:33:17 his service does not i am pretty sure Sep 06 07:33:29 id have to talk to pregame, or jason (who changed pregames service to make it more secure and packaged it as an ipk) Sep 06 07:33:42 but just having it full screen Sep 06 07:33:46 makes all the difference imo Sep 06 07:33:52 no it does Sep 06 07:33:53 and black background Sep 06 07:34:06 just wondering about capabilities of phone i dont need any of that haha Sep 06 07:36:28 oil im not sure how to send you a pm in xchat Sep 06 07:37:10 /msg oil hey, hows it goin Sep 06 07:39:00 i think i am having trouble now Sep 06 07:39:03 lol Sep 06 07:39:07 oh well not important Sep 06 07:39:18 i sent one message just hi lol Sep 06 07:39:23 you sent 3 Sep 06 07:39:25 4 Sep 06 07:39:40 oh so they are working ok nm :) it doesnt show me what i said Sep 06 07:39:58 oil good sir, how are ya Sep 06 07:40:03 not bad Sep 06 07:40:03 we were wrong about 1.2 :( Sep 06 07:40:08 haha Sep 06 07:40:15 dual dunce hats Sep 06 07:40:22 i was only ever joking cause you kept saying 1.2 was out Sep 06 07:40:31 me too ;) Sep 06 07:40:49 I am liking the LED switch Sep 06 07:41:27 Again though, why the hell do we need to hack it to enable it...would it kill Palm to enable all these features.... Sep 06 07:41:52 lol Sep 06 07:42:34 thats what i said eguy.. in a post Sep 06 07:42:39 then i got flamed haha Sep 06 07:42:47 lazy ass Palm programmers... Sep 06 07:42:50 it was a cry to palm to stop being so lame Sep 06 07:42:59 the thing is the code is already there Sep 06 07:43:08 I don't even have time to check P|C there are so many posts Sep 06 07:43:29 re Sep 06 07:43:58 i have few i monitor Sep 06 07:44:00 but thats it Sep 06 07:44:11 It's flooded with noobs Sep 06 07:44:12 its my efforts try to help other pre owners Sep 06 07:44:25 in all honesty im a noob sadly Sep 06 07:44:58 i've got subscriptions on my posts Sep 06 07:45:14 and sometimes help out people with coding Sep 06 07:45:34 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/194526-palm-why-disable-our-features.html Sep 06 07:45:54 Oh dear Jack Sep 06 07:46:37 I read that thread Sep 06 07:46:47 and saw all the noobs and went oh no Sep 06 07:47:17 ha ya Sep 06 07:47:26 that threw me over the edge for a little while Sep 06 07:47:36 than i said fuck it Sep 06 07:47:49 they so did not understand the meaning behind the post. Sep 06 07:48:03 anyway this is probably a water cooler conversation Sep 06 07:48:03 haha Sep 06 07:48:14 as for your service.. accel Sep 06 07:48:47 i dunno what kept making the pre lag about it something must of been calling on it but it was the cause for sure Sep 06 07:48:51 #webos-internals turns into watercooler when eguy joins Sep 06 07:48:59 yes Sep 06 07:49:01 haha Sep 06 07:49:02 lol Sep 06 07:49:05 * Eguy bows to oil Sep 06 07:49:23 correction when I talk it turns into watercooler ;) Sep 06 07:49:23 i really think we need to have a webos-internals xbox live night Sep 06 07:49:31 Here here Sep 06 07:49:36 how about a css Sep 06 07:49:40 im down for that Sep 06 07:49:44 oh boy Sep 06 07:49:45 not big fan of xbox Sep 06 07:49:49 I would get pwned Sep 06 07:50:00 wait this time it's oils fault for the off topic Sep 06 07:50:01 haha i just started playing it again 2 weeks ago Sep 06 07:50:15 damn oil we moved to water cooler and look Sep 06 07:50:15 hey, if someone wants to talk hacking Sep 06 07:50:21 I used to be on a cal team Sep 06 07:50:22 the conversation can stop till they're done Sep 06 07:50:28 my brain is kinda hacked out for now Sep 06 07:50:46 its wee-morning for everyone (well, except those australian guys) Sep 06 07:50:57 not me Sep 06 07:51:02 ? Sep 06 07:51:03 well Sep 06 07:51:04 yes Sep 06 07:51:06 kind Sep 06 07:51:07 a Sep 06 07:51:13 12:50 Sep 06 07:51:15 its now tomorrow Sep 06 07:51:43 * oil checks xbl app, sees nobody is playing shadowrun, closes app Sep 06 07:51:45 yes Sep 06 07:51:47 lol Sep 06 07:51:51 shadowrun! Sep 06 07:51:59 is Sep 06 07:52:08 the best ftps on the 360 Sep 06 07:52:33 and thats coming from a guy who has ran a halo site for 5+ years Sep 06 07:52:37 lol Sep 06 07:52:43 hah Sep 06 07:53:01 not saying halo is bad Sep 06 07:53:05 its a great game Sep 06 07:53:10 just i have more fun playing shadowrun Sep 06 07:53:11 oil you are missing css talk in watercooler Sep 06 07:53:13 maybe its because i rock at it Sep 06 07:53:37 whats the watercooler channel? Sep 06 07:54:41 #webos-watercooler Sep 06 08:06:21 re Sep 06 08:08:32 hola Sep 06 08:10:38 Jack87: awesome thread, dude ;-) Sep 06 08:10:59 which thread? Sep 06 08:11:21 the disable our features thread. what a hornet's nest ... Sep 06 08:11:30 lol Sep 06 08:11:32 it was depressing.. haha most of the folk flaming i had helped out Sep 06 08:12:09 i was very angry for a little while there at the community Sep 06 08:14:40 hornet's nest? sounds interesting. precentral? Sep 06 08:15:05 yup Sep 06 08:15:11 lol Sep 06 08:15:19 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/194526-palm-why-disable-our-features.html Sep 06 08:15:26 enjoy folks Sep 06 08:15:52 * freakout holds nose, dives in Sep 06 09:08:25 pcmag.com article: Hack Your Palm Pre Sep 06 09:08:31 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352009,00.asp Sep 06 09:13:50 cool find rod Sep 06 09:15:13 fun read lol Sep 06 09:15:17 kinda lame but fun Sep 06 09:15:25 no preware mention? Sep 06 09:16:58 oil: I've sent him a note to rectify that ;-) Sep 06 09:17:07 lol Sep 06 09:17:21 and a link to your Press Room page (http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Press_Room) Sep 06 09:17:40 s/your/our/ Sep 06 09:17:40 rwhitby meant: and a link to our Press Room page (http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Press_Room) Sep 06 09:20:01 I wonder why the Libraries/Feeds list is only showing the ledservice and not the batteryservice ... Sep 06 09:20:03 * freakout wonders what oil's press room would look like Sep 06 09:20:13 * freakout Centerfolds? Sep 06 09:20:22 um, i mean, Centerfolds? Sep 06 09:20:26 LOL Sep 06 09:21:03 definitely Sep 06 09:21:31 and Sep 06 09:21:38 rwhitby just ran into the same "bug" as 2 other people sofar Sep 06 09:21:59 0.8.2 defaults to not showing installed packages in the "available" lists Sep 06 09:22:02 unless you change the setting Sep 06 09:22:17 bbl Sep 06 09:22:28 oil: I don't have it in Installed Packages either Sep 06 09:22:35 then idk Sep 06 09:22:38 it shows up on my pre Sep 06 09:22:42 and in the emulator Sep 06 09:23:59 http://preyourmind.org/services/feed/arch_i686/Packages does not list it Sep 06 09:24:09 then i must have not updated my feeds when i checked Sep 06 09:27:30 oh Sep 06 09:27:32 its in arm Sep 06 09:27:35 but not i686 Sep 06 09:27:41 (why it appears on my pre) Sep 06 09:27:42 ? Sep 06 09:27:58 so who ever used prebrew and was it any good Sep 06 09:28:07 * oil hasnt Sep 06 09:28:26 preware sucks Sep 06 09:28:31 oops Sep 06 09:28:33 wrong channel Sep 06 09:28:37 ! Sep 06 09:28:44 :P Sep 06 09:28:47 * oil ops self and bans egal Sep 06 09:28:54 hahahah Sep 06 09:29:15 seemed to me like prebrew did what sdk did but i didnt reach much about it Sep 06 09:29:15 I used it today in fact because I can't use the app catalog anymore Sep 06 09:29:21 just mentioned in pc mag article Sep 06 09:31:52 oil: should I push ipkgservice 0.8.3 ? Sep 06 09:32:08 (I fixed the homepage link in it too) Sep 06 09:32:20 um Sep 06 09:32:24 whats there is good Sep 06 09:32:24 i just had a childhood flashback reading the dev code Sep 06 09:32:30 just a couple bug fixes Sep 06 09:32:39 oil: ipkgservice, not preware. Sep 06 09:32:43 oh Sep 06 09:32:52 doesnt matter to me Sep 06 09:32:57 playing contra i did it constantly till i had 99 lives played it till i passed the game Sep 06 09:32:58 i.e. is 0.8.3 ipkgservice working fine for you Sep 06 09:32:59 though people updating to it will be good Sep 06 09:32:59 contra 3 Sep 06 09:33:03 yeah sofar Sep 06 09:33:16 since 0.8.3 or 4 or 7!? Sep 06 09:33:19 may be using load Sep 06 09:33:22 oil: yeah, figured if we get the list fix in early, then people have it for your speed improved preware :-) Sep 06 09:33:24 which is broken in 0.8.2 of hte service Sep 06 09:33:29 well Sep 06 09:33:31 it may be slower Sep 06 09:33:34 but it will be better Sep 06 09:33:47 it will seems faster with a progress bar ;-) Sep 06 09:34:21 * Eguy is hoping for a 0.9 > 1.0 skip Sep 06 09:34:52 we still gotta get flags and dependencies nailed down Sep 06 09:35:01 rwhitby: you ever get that luna restart working? Sep 06 09:35:18 oil: not yet. got distracted today. Sep 06 09:36:42 ok Sep 06 09:36:49 goodnight folk its been fun Sep 06 09:36:50 *plays the jazz music* Sep 06 09:36:58 oh really rwhitby? Sep 06 09:37:03 haha just kidding ;) Sep 06 09:37:42 * Eguy is watching astronauts screwing around Sep 06 09:43:02 * rwhitby is a bit disappointed that no-one in the channel updated the Preware wiki page to 0.8.2 for us ... Sep 06 10:11:43 changelog, rwhitby? Sep 06 10:12:55 (anything needed for "recent enhancements"?) Sep 06 10:13:09 prefs menu definitely Sep 06 10:14:23 freakout: check the git tags at http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=summary Sep 06 10:14:43 funky Sep 06 10:15:31 and roll in http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=summary too Sep 06 10:20:57 well Sep 06 10:20:59 as it turns out Sep 06 10:21:05 i got it working with individual loading!@ Sep 06 10:21:19 looks like we might just need to push 0.8.3 of preware soonish Sep 06 10:21:20 xD Sep 06 10:25:28 there we go, wiki updated Sep 06 10:25:39 hopefully to the satisfaction of the developers... Sep 06 10:25:46 ...and here comes oil to make me do it again. :P Sep 06 10:29:11 bbl Sep 06 10:36:21 if i had to say Sep 06 10:36:35 i think it seems slower then the info all at once Sep 06 10:36:44 maybe its just because im watching the number count up Sep 06 10:36:54 and sometimes it gets stuck Sep 06 10:36:59 and then you know you have to wait again Sep 06 10:41:27 i pushed what i got if anyone wants to play with it Sep 06 10:47:58 oil: I do dbus-util --capture to see where it's hanging, and it completes fine Sep 06 10:48:16 you ever see it hang? Sep 06 10:48:34 yes, before I did the capture it hung on 43 of 202 Sep 06 10:48:46 now its not hanging? Sep 06 10:48:49 once you capture that is Sep 06 10:48:54 id love to see what it says when it hangs Sep 06 10:50:35 oil: correct Sep 06 10:51:00 oil: note that each call to info results in running the ipkg command, so that's ipkg being run 202 times quickly in succession Sep 06 10:51:07 so Sep 06 10:51:08 not so good Sep 06 10:52:45 oil: I reckon doing a rawlist by feed, and printing the feedname under the spinner Sep 06 10:53:01 yeah Sep 06 10:53:04 probably faster too Sep 06 10:53:15 that means i have to hunker down and do a bunch of processing Sep 06 10:53:16 haha Sep 06 10:53:29 * oil is making progress bar graphics Sep 06 10:53:44 ill try the rawlist after that Sep 06 10:54:48 36959.958 PUB call 2904 com.palm.luna org.webosinternals.ipkgservice /com/palm/luna/private/cancel «string=“{"token":2653}”» Sep 06 10:54:54 ? Sep 06 10:55:00 36960.019 PUB return 2904 0.061 org.webosinternals.ipkgservice com.palm.luna «string=“{"errorCode":"ErrorGenericOperationNotPermitted", "errorText":"Permission Denied"}”» Sep 06 10:55:07 huh Sep 06 10:55:09 get lots of those Sep 06 10:55:39 dunno what /com/palm/luna/private/cancel is about ... Sep 06 10:56:21 get a whole lot more of them when closing the Preware app Sep 06 10:57:01 huh Sep 06 10:58:32 oil: it'll be much faster when 100 of the 202 apps moves over to the app catalog ;-) Sep 06 10:58:39 lol Sep 06 11:00:50 oil: so, we can also try caching all the info stuff in the service ... Sep 06 11:05:34 oil: put since it's the same amount of information being read line by line, then transferred over dbus, it probably wont matter whether it's parsed in the java or the app, and I can probably give you a total count of lines so you can do a progress bar as you parse through each line of each feed ... Sep 06 11:06:12 in fact, I'll add that so you get a count of lines back with the contents for rawlist and rawstatus Sep 06 11:06:25 so you can do a progress bar as you're reading and parsing it. Sep 06 11:06:50 or maybe a count of packages is better. Sep 06 11:07:24 packages for sure Sep 06 11:08:25 ok, I'll do that now. Sep 06 11:19:29 ok, done. test and push tbd Sep 06 11:22:07 oil: you still around? Sep 06 11:22:11 yeah Sep 06 11:23:12 ipkgservice 0.8.4 coming up Sep 06 11:23:29 with a "size" field in the reply from rawlist and rawstatus Sep 06 11:23:43 which denotes the number of packages contained in the reply Sep 06 11:24:15 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.4_all.ipk Sep 06 11:24:37 ok Sep 06 11:25:05 so that should be enough for a per-feed count-up of packages parsed Sep 06 11:25:29 including duplicates? Sep 06 11:25:33 (i would assume) Sep 06 11:25:48 yes, duplicates would appear in multiple feed lists Sep 06 11:26:34 and multiple versions (which should never be in a single feed, but PuffTheMagic still does it) will be counted multiple times - I just String.startWith("Package: ") Sep 06 11:27:41 if this works, we'll probably rename those methods to something more official sounding ;-) Sep 06 11:27:44 does rawlist do all Sep 06 11:27:50 or does it have to be by feed? Sep 06 11:36:29 it's by feed only Sep 06 11:37:07 (since that's how the files are split up) Sep 06 11:38:45 got ya Sep 06 11:45:43 hi folks - has anyone posted source for the new 1.2 image? I'm interested to have a look around that new LED Notifications code. (another good idea copied from Butler ;) ) Sep 06 11:46:34 ConfusedVorlon_: there are URLs for it floating around. we shouldn't post them in this publicly logged channel though. Sep 06 11:47:04 well - just incidentally, and apropos of nothing, my email address is rob@hobbyistsoftware.com ! Sep 06 11:49:53 im pretty sure there is a link in the precentral post Sep 06 11:51:58 I slotted 2 hours to learn mojopalmsdk this morning. some progress so far. can't really learn enough to do something useful in 2 hours though. :) Sep 06 11:52:37 jettero: I find getting oil to do stuff is far more efficient ;-) Sep 06 11:52:53 oil: I'll give you $5 if you make me know mojopalmask quick Sep 06 11:53:19 I maybe missed the point Sep 06 11:53:37 you'll do better by giving him a challenge rather than a fiver ;-) Sep 06 11:53:42 mojopalmask? Sep 06 11:54:44 I'm fond of a web framework for perl called mojo, so I refuse to call the palm webos sdk "mojo" anything other than palm mojo and add sdk on the end to be more pedantic about it ... Sep 06 11:54:52 palmsdkmojo or mojopalmsdk... Sep 06 11:55:13 really I think palm sdk is enough, or maybe just mojo. Sep 06 11:56:54 oil: is ipkgservice 0.8.4 ok to push to replace 0.8.3 ? Sep 06 12:00:17 how does mojo find scenes? is it -scene.html? or is it based on the app/views structure some how? Sep 06 12:04:18 uh Sep 06 12:04:20 rwhitby sure Sep 06 12:04:31 jettero, yeah? Sep 06 12:04:39 i always just add scenes with the add scene option Sep 06 12:04:41 and it does it right Sep 06 12:04:44 and i dont fudge with it Sep 06 12:05:22 add scene option? are you using an IDE or something? Sep 06 12:05:35 yeah Sep 06 12:05:52 what ide? Sep 06 12:05:58 eclipse Sep 06 12:05:59 (I'm not likely to use an IDE, but I'm curious) Sep 06 12:06:03 ahh, that makes sense Sep 06 12:10:17 but Sep 06 12:10:26 im pretty sure its due to its name Sep 06 12:10:50 ? Sep 06 12:11:01 actually Sep 06 12:11:05 it has to do with sources.json Sep 06 12:11:10 that tells it the file and the scene in that file Sep 06 12:11:29 then it loads the assistant from [Name]Assistant Sep 06 12:16:53 rwhitby: no Status?!? Sep 06 12:17:14 oil: in which? Sep 06 12:17:26 rawstatus Sep 06 12:17:31 er whatever it is Sep 06 12:17:34 rawlist? Sep 06 12:17:43 rawstatus has it Sep 06 12:18:02 rawlist does not (it's a direct copy of the Packages file from the feed) Sep 06 12:18:10 whats the difference between rawlist and rawstatus? Sep 06 12:18:46 rawlist is the feed lists files. rawstatus is the on-device ipkg database of what has ever been installed in history. Sep 06 12:19:15 do i care about rawstatus? Sep 06 12:19:29 yep, that's how you get Installed Packages Sep 06 12:20:06 so i have to do both? Sep 06 12:20:10 yep Sep 06 12:20:20 :/ Sep 06 12:20:43 those are the raw files on disk, unmodified. no ipkg commands get run when you ask for those. Sep 06 12:20:57 and update updates those files Sep 06 12:21:01 yes Sep 06 12:21:13 update updates the list files Sep 06 12:21:23 other ipkg operations operate on the status file Sep 06 12:21:37 this is turning into something that could be very temperamental Sep 06 12:21:58 how so? Sep 06 12:22:01 as every request to ipkg is asynchronous Sep 06 12:22:35 instead of just asking for "info" Sep 06 12:22:51 now its at minimum 3 requests Sep 06 12:22:54 and thats only if there is 1 feed Sep 06 12:22:56 and its not updating Sep 06 12:23:07 oil: that can't be right. Tons of the examples don't even name the scenes in the sources.json and they function. Perhaps it's poor style, but ... I think the scene: in there tells it when to load sources, rather than what the scene names are Sep 06 12:23:32 it depends on if its a "model" or a scene Sep 06 12:23:35 if you're pushing a scene Sep 06 12:23:56 im pretty sure it needs that "scenes" value Sep 06 12:24:02 oil: the update method doesn't return until the lists files are updated. then the rawlist method always reads the latest state of those files Sep 06 12:24:13 yeah, i got that Sep 06 12:24:23 oil: yeah, I think it goes off the filename. if it has a -scene.html, then it's a scene Sep 06 12:26:07 oil: as long as the readFile routine is efficient (I dunno, cause I'm not a Java expert) then this is the quickest way i know to get this info up to the app. Sep 06 12:26:18 yeah Sep 06 12:26:24 ill get it done Sep 06 12:27:31 In the meantime, I'll continue hunting for an atomic way to restart LunaSysMgr from inside a java service ... Sep 06 12:34:47 luna-send -n 1 luna://com.palm.vmstatus/stacktraces '{"json":true}' Sep 06 12:35:00 that shows some interesting info about service status Sep 06 12:46:41 rwhitby: just use Alarms or Alerts Sep 06 12:46:53 schedule a task to run at time X Sep 06 12:47:29 do they survive killing the java process in which they are running? Sep 06 12:47:47 well an alarm isnt really running Sep 06 12:47:56 it get scheduled with the RTC Sep 06 12:48:37 http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1584 Sep 06 12:48:46 idk just an idea, it might work/help Sep 06 12:49:01 if you schedule an alarm from a java process, and then kill the process, does the alarm still fire? and what context does it fire within if it does? Sep 06 12:49:23 yeah i would beleive it would fire Sep 06 12:49:33 alarms can wake up services while the phone is sleeping Sep 06 12:49:50 but not when the messaging subsystem has just been killed ... Sep 06 12:50:27 why would it matter as long as that subsystem is back up before the alarm Sep 06 12:51:00 well, it would no longer have a handle for where to deliver the message for one thing ... Sep 06 12:51:30 that is just an assumption Sep 06 12:51:55 the app dont have to be running Sep 06 12:51:59 for an alarm to call it Sep 06 12:52:00 and the thing waiting for the message will have got a connection broken as soon as the messaging system goes down - I've seen that happen myself, so that bit is not an assumption. Sep 06 12:52:16 an alarm is not a dbus/ipc message Sep 06 12:52:37 PuffTheMagic: you are responding to my question about restarting LunaSysMgr atomically, right? Sep 06 12:52:46 yeah Sep 06 12:53:29 rwhitby: but my UpstartService can do this too soon Sep 06 12:53:41 and its gonna be in C Sep 06 12:53:57 yes, that will be a better way to do it. Sep 06 12:54:32 PuffTheMagic: BTW, how come there's nothing in your i686 feed on preyourmind.org ? Sep 06 12:54:48 cause the battery service dont run on emu since it has no battery Sep 06 12:54:57 and led service is cross platform Sep 06 12:55:08 you're not going to fake it like they do for the radio service? Sep 06 12:55:21 fake what? Sep 06 12:55:26 the battery service Sep 06 12:55:48 im not understanding what I would fake exactly Sep 06 12:55:49 make it return some fake data when running on the emulator Sep 06 12:56:07 why would i waste time add junk like that into the program Sep 06 12:56:14 allow an application that uses the battery service to be tested on the emulator Sep 06 12:56:27 but its not really a test if its fake Sep 06 12:57:08 the application is tested, not the battery service. calling the battery service may be a very small part of the overall application Sep 06 12:57:35 anyway, your service, your call. Sep 06 12:57:49 rwhitby: i will release i686 stuff for things that can actually work in the emu Sep 06 12:58:07 but i have enough stuff i want to write i dont need to write fake code for a service that no one will probably use Sep 06 12:58:36 sure, it just means that any app that uses the battery service won't run on the emulator either unless you special case code ... Sep 06 12:58:59 yes battery apps wont run on the emulator Sep 06 12:59:02 since it has no battery Sep 06 12:59:17 a mojo app that is armv7 Sep 06 12:59:18 :D Sep 06 12:59:29 and not all Sep 06 12:59:41 inerestingly enough, the battery indicator on my emulator says the battery is at 89% Sep 06 12:59:54 yeah i think powerd fakes it Sep 06 13:00:08 but there is no /sys file for it Sep 06 13:00:10 yeah, how silly of them to do something like that ... ;-) Sep 06 13:00:29 i dont know which service to start next Sep 06 13:00:41 the upstart service or the procps service Sep 06 13:00:56 they should have just put code into webOS to say don't display the battery indicator if you're running on the emulator, cause the emulator has no battery ... Sep 06 13:01:33 but thats all open code Sep 06 13:01:33 anyway, your service, your call. Sep 06 13:01:40 powerd d is closed Sep 06 13:01:48 so it would be easier to hide something like that in there Sep 06 13:02:00 if anyone needs a battery service that works on the emulator, they can just derive from the gpl code. Sep 06 13:02:14 rwhitby: i might add something later Sep 06 13:02:20 but i've got 2 more services to start Sep 06 13:02:27 one of which might be useful to Preware Sep 06 13:03:22 * rwhitby bbt Sep 06 13:05:51 rwhitby: i might need your help setting up gitosis later Sep 06 13:09:24 oil: ping Sep 06 13:12:06 SUCCESS! Sep 06 13:12:09 its boatloads faster Sep 06 13:12:26 but it appears to be missing some packages? Sep 06 13:12:40 * oil eats celebratory pre-breakfast Sep 06 13:12:43 PuffTheMagic: ? Sep 06 13:13:25 oh shit Sep 06 13:13:28 u dont have a rooted pre Sep 06 13:13:29 nm Sep 06 13:13:35 HAHA Sep 06 13:13:47 i was gonna see if you wanted to whip up a battery monitor real quick Sep 06 13:13:58 so i can get subscriptions working in C Sep 06 13:14:06 which i will need for more advanced services Sep 06 13:16:42 you suck! Sep 06 13:16:44 :D Sep 06 13:21:10 well when it works Sep 06 13:21:13 ill whip one up Sep 06 13:23:42 it does work Sep 06 13:23:46 just not subscriptions yet Sep 06 13:24:03 doesnt mean i cant whip something up for it Sep 06 13:24:14 then change it to subscribe Sep 06 13:27:08 oil: im sure by the time u get the batter graphics all set so that the battery fills up with charge percentage i will have subscriptions done Sep 06 13:27:19 * PuffTheMagic just created 2 more projects on the website Sep 06 13:27:30 "Upstart Service" and "Procps Service" Sep 06 13:27:32 battery graphics? Sep 06 13:27:39 thats templarians job Sep 06 13:30:32 all u need is a battery outline, probably could make it fill with css Sep 06 13:30:47 anyway Sep 06 13:30:47 yeah, i know how to do a progress bar Sep 06 13:30:50 lol Sep 06 13:30:58 my graphics prowess is good Sep 06 13:31:06 but not so good that i dont think templarian is better Sep 06 13:31:09 you could even use a progress bar right now Sep 06 13:31:27 the battery filling is basically a sideways progress bar Sep 06 13:44:47 oil: well the thing is i sorta need a mojo app that is designed to work with subscriptions Sep 06 13:44:55 so i can test that its working Sep 06 13:45:04 cause subscriptions dont work with luna-send Sep 06 13:47:57 but i mean Sep 06 13:48:12 call, return, display Sep 06 13:48:15 versus Sep 06 13:48:23 call, return, display, return, display, return, display Sep 06 13:48:27 its hte same code Sep 06 13:48:35 plus subscription = true or some shit Sep 06 13:48:44 on your end yes Sep 06 13:48:55 s/your/mojo/ Sep 06 13:49:01 PuffTheMagic meant: on mojo end yes Sep 06 13:50:12 morning irc folken Sep 06 13:50:50 morning Sep 06 13:51:50 lol Sep 06 13:51:54 i lost track of what it was Sep 06 13:56:06 im gonna take another crack at this ipkg server side and then I quit haha Sep 06 13:56:18 rwhitby: you around? Sep 06 13:57:30 ipkg server side? Sep 06 13:58:41 ya Sep 06 13:59:01 so that whenever anyone uploads a theme, bootlogo etc, they can be downloaded as installable exe or jars Sep 06 14:05:08 sou are making a web based installer? Sep 06 14:10:18 no lol Sep 06 14:10:27 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/200981-attn-homebrew-creators-ipk-installer.html#post1862867 Sep 06 14:10:37 using greg's IPK installer Sep 06 14:10:44 but trying to run it on a centos box Sep 06 14:11:12 so i wonder why im missing some packages Sep 06 14:11:22 i want 1.2 to release :/ Sep 06 14:15:31 i could have sworn rwhitby said he used subscriptions in ipkgservice Sep 06 14:15:36 for the confirmation thing Sep 06 14:15:38 but i dont see them Sep 06 14:15:44 uh Sep 06 14:15:47 it does Sep 06 14:16:08 what function do you subscribe to? Sep 06 14:17:17 install and remove Sep 06 14:22:47 oil: so you gonna get rooted so u can use the battery service? Sep 06 14:27:25 lolol Sep 06 14:28:42 im going to figure out why my parser is missing some stuff Sep 06 14:39:20 PuffTheMagic: what is the use of the battery service? Sep 06 14:39:42 Decimation_: well, someone could make a super battery monitor Sep 06 14:39:57 Decimation_: im not saying its super useful Sep 06 14:40:12 but i wanted an easy small project to get C services working on Sep 06 14:40:14 but it is super cool!@! Sep 06 14:40:16 xD Sep 06 14:40:20 before i started on more complex stuff Sep 06 14:40:40 ahh, thats cool. Sep 06 14:40:54 hopefully someone will make a battery monitor app. Sep 06 14:41:04 what's your next project? :D Sep 06 14:41:27 Upstart Services...then Procps Service or IRC Service ;) Sep 06 14:41:36 maybe i will have to make the battery gui Sep 06 14:41:39 since oil wont root his pre Sep 06 14:41:43 lawls Sep 06 14:41:56 just tell me the method, and exactly what it returns Sep 06 14:42:01 and ill whip somethin up Sep 06 14:42:04 wont be pretty Sep 06 14:42:06 but itl let you test Sep 06 14:44:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnlzbuLRwM&feature=related Sep 06 14:44:59 getage, getavgcurrent,getcapacity,getcoulomb,getcurrent,getpercent,getrawcoulomb,gettemp,getvoltage Sep 06 14:45:01 whoa, look at the camera on that pre Sep 06 14:45:02 all return strings Sep 06 14:45:07 at like.. 1:40 Sep 06 14:45:07 but they are really numbers Sep 06 14:45:17 status,validate_battery return string strings Sep 06 14:45:19 when you take a picture, it has an animation and such Sep 06 14:45:23 and thats from january Sep 06 14:45:27 i guess palm removed it? Sep 06 14:55:53 lol, i wish palm would've kept that animation. Sep 06 15:02:12 idk Sep 06 15:02:19 it looks slower then the current camera Sep 06 15:02:25 speed > fancyness Sep 06 15:02:32 agreed Sep 06 15:02:34 for example: if i could turn off the animations for menues/popups Sep 06 15:02:35 i would Sep 06 15:02:36 especially coming from the iPhone cam Sep 06 15:02:36 BUT IT HAS A PRETTY ANIMATION LIKE DA PHONEFRUIT Sep 06 15:02:48 1.03 was WAY better Sep 06 15:03:08 oil: 1.2 improved that speed Sep 06 15:03:09 with regard to not animating popups or menus Sep 06 15:03:14 what Sep 06 15:03:18 they put the time to elss? Sep 06 15:03:20 less*? Sep 06 15:03:23 * oil wants no time Sep 06 15:03:35 * Decimation_ just noticed it was faster... Sep 06 15:03:38 brb, reboot. Sep 06 15:03:50 for animations there is "duration" Sep 06 15:05:03 they must have made it shorter Sep 06 15:06:48 destinal: ping Sep 06 15:08:15 oil: where is the duration located? Sep 06 15:08:17 do you know? Sep 06 15:08:40 http://developer.palm.com/palm-sdk/jsdoc/symbols/Mojo.Animation.html Sep 06 15:18:05 battery service isnt in the feed anymore? Sep 06 15:26:58 not sure Sep 06 15:28:09 pkg mgr updt Sep 06 15:30:30 oil: yes it is Sep 06 15:30:35 just not in the i686 feed Sep 06 15:30:38 since it dont work there Sep 06 15:30:44 but its in the armv7 feed Sep 06 15:42:27 destinal: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sep 06 15:45:32 oil: are you currently or soon gonna make a quick gui for this that i can start testing or should i just try Sep 06 15:46:23 oil: lol, just tested out the preware version you just posted Sep 06 15:46:39 it loaded at the begining with a progress bar Sep 06 15:46:43 then no packages loaded :/ Sep 06 15:49:14 yeah Sep 06 15:49:28 it needs a ipkgservice that isnt in there yet Sep 06 16:16:47 PuffTheMagic: ping Sep 06 16:16:54 Zuchmir2: pong Sep 06 16:17:11 do you know who has to free() strings allocated in services? Sep 06 16:17:52 like all C app you need to free what ever you allocate Sep 06 16:17:55 i would imagine Sep 06 16:18:00 i dont see how luna would do it for us Sep 06 16:18:06 looks like you r freeing it, would that work in MOJO? Sep 06 16:18:29 i dont get what you are asking? Sep 06 16:18:46 in plugin, when u pass stuff to mojo i'm quite sure u can't free it Sep 06 16:19:06 i dont "pass" anything to mojo Sep 06 16:19:27 i alloc some stuff for use in the service, send the message via dbus Sep 06 16:19:29 then free it Sep 06 16:19:30 the LSMessageReply() goes to mojo Sep 06 16:19:59 yeah but nothing in the reply i alloc my self Sep 06 16:20:04 but if it's not read in real-time the buffer was unallocated before it's usage Sep 06 16:20:06 except for the error handler Sep 06 16:20:17 what are u referring to here Sep 06 16:20:18 jsonResponse->str Sep 06 16:20:44 i would imagine LSMessageReply() does a strdup or something Sep 06 16:20:47 before it returns Sep 06 16:20:54 so freeing it immediately shouldnt matter Sep 06 16:21:11 LS* is in which lib? Sep 06 16:21:21 liblunaservice.so Sep 06 16:21:28 which we have no docs for Sep 06 16:21:32 nor a real header Sep 06 16:22:17 ok, so you are hoping it doesn't crash anything, ok will wait for mojo to see if that's true Sep 06 16:22:52 well it works with luna-send Sep 06 16:22:55 and no crash Sep 06 16:23:14 but hopefully some mojo will show up soon Sep 06 16:23:18 * PuffTheMagic kicks oil in the ass Sep 06 16:23:43 yeah, but that could be because it's stdout / done immediately (not kept long-term) Sep 06 16:23:48 :-) Sep 06 16:24:12 idk i just based it on libpurple-adapter Sep 06 16:24:17 so if that dont crash Sep 06 16:24:23 i dont think my example will Sep 06 16:24:27 ... was wondering if the whole ipkgservice shold be in C Sep 06 16:24:49 where's the src for libpurple-adapter? Sep 06 16:26:04 on palms opensource site Sep 06 16:26:17 Zuchmir2: i would considering redoing ipkgservice in C Sep 06 16:26:25 one i get some more complex services going Sep 06 16:26:41 i dont quite understand what is going on with the subscription stuff Sep 06 16:27:12 ipkgserivce is using subscription? Sep 06 16:28:16 yes Sep 06 16:28:23 but i will need it for other services too Sep 06 16:28:47 ok, got it Sep 06 16:29:16 mojo framework seems to be synchronous though Sep 06 16:29:17 which sucks Sep 06 16:29:18 i have a personal prefrence with C, as I know that alot better than java Sep 06 16:29:26 ... which allows me to make mods Sep 06 16:29:37 Zuchmir2: i know Java better Sep 06 16:29:43 but would rather write C Sep 06 16:32:03 i would like to contrib to it, but the amount of time for me to make a simple mod in Java is so long, i'm afraid to start Sep 06 16:32:21 lol Sep 06 16:32:43 Zuchmir2: if you want to join in on any of the C services i am gonna be working on no prob Sep 06 16:32:50 i will have to get a ssh key from you Sep 06 16:34:38 i don't mind, but i have a prefrence for the ipkg service, as that's something I need modified (to accommodate my non-OS feed) Sep 06 16:35:07 what kinda interesting services are you thinking of Sep 06 16:35:31 non-OS as is non opensource? Sep 06 16:35:38 correct Sep 06 16:35:58 i dont think preware is limited to opensource feeds Sep 06 16:36:22 but what kind of top secret closed source apps u making? Sep 06 16:36:59 Zuchmir2: after i get subscriptions working in the battery service im gonna write a Upstart service and then start on the IRC service Sep 06 16:37:25 it's not limited to OS, however the current feeds will not take CS binaries Sep 06 16:38:00 oh Sep 06 16:38:25 so if you have your own feed, then just add the feed to ipkgservice Sep 06 16:38:26 http://webos.shiur.org is the CS feed which i have, and want a simple method for users to add that feed Sep 06 16:38:49 just add it to ipkgservice Sep 06 16:39:10 as it is for end users to install preware it's not simple instructions, to have to type commands in novaterm complicates it much more Sep 06 16:39:35 what are you talking about Sep 06 16:39:43 preware and ipkgservice install with the quick install Sep 06 16:39:46 which is simple and painless Sep 06 16:39:51 i watched my brother do it Sep 06 16:39:56 no manual commands Sep 06 16:39:59 it took me 2 weeks before i decided to bite the bullet and actualy install preware, i didn't consider the steps simple Sep 06 16:40:29 yeah, but to add custom feed is more complicated, it needs command line editing files Sep 06 16:40:29 download 2 ipks, install them with the quick installer... Sep 06 16:40:34 cant really get any easier Sep 06 16:40:49 Zuchmir2: dont make the end user add the feed Sep 06 16:40:57 you can add the feed to ipkgservice Sep 06 16:40:59 in buit.git Sep 06 16:40:59 i'm running win2k, which is not supported Sep 06 16:41:01 build.git Sep 06 16:41:09 and have your feed incluced by default Sep 06 16:41:24 the community don't want CS bin feeds in there Sep 06 16:41:36 says who? Sep 06 16:41:45 why would only OS feeds get in my default? Sep 06 16:41:54 s/my/by/ Sep 06 16:41:54 PuffTheMagic meant: why would only OS feeds get in by default? Sep 06 16:42:17 destinal/rwhitby etc Sep 06 16:42:32 i thought the only opensource issue was webosprojects had to be opensource Sep 06 16:42:37 but a feed shouldnt matter Sep 06 16:42:40 they feel this open up security issues Sep 06 16:42:53 lame Sep 06 16:42:58 Zuchmir2: just make a opensource ipk Sep 06 16:43:01 that installs a new feed Sep 06 16:43:02 :D Sep 06 16:43:21 now that's an idea :-) Sep 06 16:43:43 and i dont care if its hosted on my site Sep 06 16:43:53 since its opensource :D Sep 06 16:44:35 i mean i think precentral feed has closed source stuff on it Sep 06 16:44:45 so why does the precentral feed get into preware by default Sep 06 16:44:48 but not yours Sep 06 16:44:49 they have CS, but no BINs Sep 06 16:45:18 how can you have closed source mojo apps Sep 06 16:45:22 the issue is CS JS is essentially OS Sep 06 16:45:24 the source is open by default Sep 06 16:45:40 non-GPL etc Sep 06 16:46:00 Zuchmir2: well I propose we addd a new ipkg "Type" Sep 06 16:46:03 Feed Sep 06 16:46:09 yeah, that's why the concerns are not as hihgh as CS BIN which IS CS Sep 06 16:46:11 for ipks that just manage custom feeds Sep 06 16:47:25 Zuchmir2: i will add a Feed type to my website today Sep 06 16:47:31 Zuchmir2: get a ipk for your feed Sep 06 16:48:11 ok, thanks Sep 06 16:48:56 make an account on my site Sep 06 16:49:02 create a project for your feed Sep 06 16:49:09 then create releases for that project Sep 06 16:55:47 Zuchmir2: ok project type Feed Sep 06 16:59:55 Puff: http://pastebin.com/d39e6dd1a Sep 06 17:00:20 (from: http://www.preyourmind.org/node/add/project-release/26) Sep 06 17:00:30 Zuchmir2: that could be a stale warning from something else Sep 06 17:00:41 ok Sep 06 17:00:57 seems like the project was created fine Sep 06 17:02:11 im not suggesting anything about the code you are gonna release closed source Sep 06 17:02:31 but maybe preware should display a special warning/notice for new feed installs Sep 06 17:04:30 i would agree Sep 06 17:05:04 those that want install my feed would for the most par feel comforatable accepting Sep 06 17:05:33 they use the CS for all other platforms, so there's nothing new for webos Sep 06 17:07:59 i mean i dont have an issue with closed source stuff, it does make we wonder what there is to hide though Sep 06 17:20:43 Zuchmir2: fyi,,, the site is still sorta betaish Sep 06 17:20:55 so not everything is perfect Sep 06 17:21:07 i need to fix the titles for release nodes Sep 06 17:21:12 to include teh reverse dns part Sep 06 17:21:29 and there is some code to validate the shortnames to prevent duplicates Sep 06 17:21:40 and i need to make that use the reverse dns name too Sep 06 17:22:35 but i see it in the the feed Sep 06 17:22:39 :D Sep 06 17:23:06 which site? Sep 06 17:23:18 preyourmind.org Sep 06 17:23:25 the pre hosting site i set up Sep 06 17:23:33 project hosting Sep 06 17:24:48 it looks broken: it's saying: Filename: org.shiur_.Projects_0.1.0_all.ipk (and extra _ after the reverse DNS) Sep 06 17:27:21 PuffTheMagic: I remember you talking about this Sep 06 17:27:24 its looking nice Sep 06 17:33:35 in preware->Available Packages->Feeds->PreYourMind it is not listed Sep 06 17:45:44 ... although luna-send -n 1 palm://org.webosinternals.ipkgservice/info {package:"org.shiur.projects"} does show it Sep 06 17:52:26 ok. im at a loss. i woke up this morning with my bookmarks gone and my messaging app not starting Sep 06 17:53:57 i dont even know where to begin troubleshooting Sep 06 18:13:35 is this all that has to be added to get the feed working: http://pastebin.com/d10ecce16 ? Sep 06 18:14:50 Zuchmir2: do you have ipkg-utils Sep 06 18:14:59 with that its really easy Sep 06 18:15:06 but i take it you are asking about the control file Sep 06 18:15:29 i was gonna add a feature to the website Sep 06 18:15:37 i am talking about adding the ability to preware Sep 06 18:15:38 where you can wget a control file Sep 06 18:16:08 what ability Sep 06 18:16:10 custom feeds? Sep 06 18:16:44 yeah, custom feeds, just added http://pastebin.com/d10ecce16 to my main-assistant.js it looks like it works Sep 06 18:17:19 there already is a feed view Sep 06 18:17:23 PuffTheMagic: open vs closed isn't readable vs not. open source is like free software, being able to read it doesn't give the freedom that the FSF and others are fighting for Sep 06 18:17:57 i know thats the technical def Sep 06 18:17:58 yeah, you can modify it, but you can't make new stuff based on it and distribute that work Sep 06 18:17:59 im just saying Sep 06 18:18:02 where i the feed view? Sep 06 18:18:09 its pretty funny to say something is closed source Sep 06 18:18:14 when the code is readble Sep 06 18:18:27 proprietary is a better word Sep 06 18:18:55 destinal: Zuchmir2 i could use some help Sep 06 18:19:00 I mean, all the proprietary .jar's palm distributes are readable with a decompiler, but they're just as readable in jd-gui for instance Sep 06 18:19:07 as js code is Sep 06 18:19:29 still not open source, the jars or js Sep 06 18:19:49 PuffTheMagic: sure, what's up? Sep 06 18:20:11 in available apps->feeds it does not show available "feed" feeds Sep 06 18:20:17 im not really understanding what is going on with the subscription stuff Sep 06 18:20:26 Zuchmir2: ahh Sep 06 18:20:27 yeah Sep 06 18:20:51 Zuchmir2: i wouldnt use the title "Available Feeds" Sep 06 18:21:06 is subscription = callback? Sep 06 18:21:13 PuffTheMagic: what bit? basically services that allow subscription send more than one reply back to the initial request. they hang onto the message you sent to them and reply to that message many times Sep 06 18:21:22 whenever they need to send you an update Sep 06 18:21:44 so i need to make a special thread then Sep 06 18:21:50 if i want to recieve new commands Sep 06 18:22:02 and send subscription replys Sep 06 18:22:32 well, I haven't checked out the c service code, how do you get messages from dbus? Sep 06 18:22:36 you probably need ONE reply for all subscriptions Sep 06 18:22:47 Zuchmir2: yeah i know Sep 06 18:22:54 s/reply/reply thread/ Sep 06 18:22:54 Zuchmir2 meant: you probably need ONE reply thread for all subscriptions Sep 06 18:22:55 destinal: just like in java Sep 06 18:23:04 destinal: you implement a method with certain params Sep 06 18:23:16 and one of them is the parmas to the function Sep 06 18:23:18 so you don't need a thread, right? unless you want to do things async Sep 06 18:23:21 the other is the response string Sep 06 18:23:42 which you probably do actually Sep 06 18:23:52 is there subscription in IPKGService ? Sep 06 18:23:55 yeah Sep 06 18:23:58 well the thing is right now the service Sep 06 18:24:08 just responts to get menthods Sep 06 18:24:10 methods Sep 06 18:24:13 and returns values Sep 06 18:24:20 in the latest commit i pushed Sep 06 18:24:29 i look for param subscribe:true Sep 06 18:24:32 sure, where as a service that you subscribe to will be doing other things by definition, or why subscribe? Sep 06 18:24:32 and that works Sep 06 18:24:51 i didnt understand the question Sep 06 18:25:14 subscription is just replying multiple times Sep 06 18:25:23 i get that Sep 06 18:25:24 the question is, what are you trying to solve? Sep 06 18:25:30 ie, why do you want to allow subscription? Sep 06 18:25:37 exmaple: Sep 06 18:25:40 getpercent Sep 06 18:25:52 would normally just return the percent once Sep 06 18:25:59 but if someone subscribes to getpercent Sep 06 18:26:04 i should send it repeatedly Sep 06 18:26:10 at some freq Sep 06 18:26:25 but that initial method must return Sep 06 18:26:30 so i need to create a thread Sep 06 18:26:43 to loop and do the getpercent subscriptions Sep 06 18:27:02 and that thread continues while the number of subscribers >0 Sep 06 18:27:24 ok which one of you hacked my box? Sep 06 18:27:35 zsoc: lol Sep 06 18:27:41 what? Sep 06 18:28:04 destinal, no joke, on my pre im missing my book marks for web, AND MY MESSAGING APP IS GONE. I mean GONE. and on my local box here my theme was changed Sep 06 18:28:23 destinal: who was the what for? Sep 06 18:28:30 zsoc Sep 06 18:28:44 only thing i can think of, is a usb cable got unplugged while in novacom building something unimportant... can't imagine it caused that tho Sep 06 18:29:17 PuffTheMagic: ok, that makes sense then since basically the original request would (optionally) return a single response and then add the requester to subscriptions Sep 06 18:29:34 and the other thread is checking the battery and replying to subscribers Sep 06 18:29:38 destinal, I don't suppose to want to tar up your /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.messaging/ folder for me xD :D :D :D Sep 06 18:29:48 zsoc: just get it from the webos doctor image Sep 06 18:30:08 good idea Sep 06 18:31:04 zsoc: I don't get it, you're saying you think your workstation was broken into by someone familiar with webos and how to connect to your pre to remove stuff off of IT as well? Sep 06 18:31:13 zsoc: that sounds extremely bizarre and amazingly unlikely Sep 06 18:31:36 destinal, right, and i'm agreeing that's not at all what happened. i think just my pre freaked out during the unplug, i can't find logs of it anywhere tho Sep 06 18:31:44 ah ok Sep 06 18:31:50 I'd check /var/log on the pre Sep 06 18:33:06 PuffTheMagic: basically it would work just like the java thing, you'd add the subscription message to an array and then just iterate through all of them when you have an update Sep 06 18:33:45 Oh, a kernel panic. Sep 06 18:33:49 by the way, it can be useful to luna-send -t 20 or whatever when testing (-n isn't as good for testing them) Sep 06 18:33:54 * zsoc thinks maybe he should just reimg Sep 06 18:34:11 destinal: you keep skipping the part where the issue some in Sep 06 18:34:18 ?when do you update? Sep 06 18:34:40 you need a thread Sep 06 18:34:43 yeah Sep 06 18:34:45 a worker thread Sep 06 18:34:47 rwhitby: why would preware only be showing a 193 apps?? Sep 06 18:34:50 PuffTheMagic: sure Sep 06 18:35:25 theo: it number seems to be in constant flux Sep 06 18:35:26 theo, it's now based on apps you _don't_ have installed, not including ones you do Sep 06 18:35:51 so 193 "installation candidates" essentially Sep 06 18:36:18 zsoc: that would make since, thanks guys Sep 06 18:36:21 theo: prefrences -> installed available was added Sep 06 18:36:22 Right, which I suppose is more accurate, just confusing because it's different from what had been going on :) Sep 06 18:36:47 I really hope my image is still ok. There's so much work on it. I backed it up like 374872374 times heh. Sep 06 18:37:11 Does anyone know where text message data is stored? like past messages? Sep 06 18:37:28 hmmm Sep 06 18:37:45 it may be useful to make a utility that backs up your pre to a doctor image Sep 06 18:38:04 Zuchmir2: actually Sep 06 18:38:09 I don't modify mine that much, so doctoring isn't that painful Sep 06 18:38:10 maybe all feeds should get moved to ipks Sep 06 18:38:11 :D Sep 06 18:38:46 destinal, can't we just dd the root? Sep 06 18:39:25 puff: you mean have single ROOT feed, and all other feeds added via ipk Sep 06 18:39:30 zsoc: sure. then some people may still have to run the doctor and dd back, it's a lot more time consuming Sep 06 18:39:40 depending on how badly they're hosed up Sep 06 18:40:08 zsoc: others have suggested rsync as a good option Sep 06 18:40:13 Zuchmir2: well we wouldnt need any root feed Sep 06 18:40:26 well sorta but not really Sep 06 18:40:47 there has to be a feed where the feed ipks are Sep 06 18:41:00 ehh Sep 06 18:41:04 forget i brought it up Sep 06 18:41:09 PuffTheMagic: if you start up with nothing but an feed feed, then people might not know to install a useful feed (well, like ours for instance) Sep 06 18:41:35 destinal: right im not pro-feed-feed Sep 06 18:41:50 the defaults are fine Sep 06 18:41:57 what i was really getting at Sep 06 18:42:03 was if we have an available feeds view Sep 06 18:42:10 it should show the build in feeds some how Sep 06 18:42:15 although I agree a category for feeds would be good and have ipks Sep 06 18:42:32 destinal: a Type for Feed Sep 06 18:42:33 :D Sep 06 18:42:42 right, Type Sep 06 18:42:45 cool Sep 06 18:43:15 Zuchmir2: so did you push your mod? Sep 06 18:43:19 For available feeds Sep 06 18:43:36 yes Sep 06 18:43:37 zsoc: im pretty sure its store that in the /usr/palm/applications/messeaging folder, it tends to get larger from the original, im trying to narrow done now Sep 06 18:43:54 http://git.webosinternals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb6f6dbc08451740e9eb042e778de457e4f5b81c Sep 06 18:44:00 theo, awesome.. good thing i didn't need any of those messages lol Sep 06 18:44:47 ... although someone may want to change order, and or allow hide (like libs) Sep 06 18:45:51 destinal, is there a good way to copy just the folder i need? i don't know a whole lot about the doctor but it just seems like a java restore program Sep 06 18:46:35 zsoc: sure, just copy the folder you need. it's linux. Sep 06 18:46:42 oh. Sep 06 18:46:44 right. Sep 06 18:46:52 I was just confused about the file structure Sep 06 18:46:54 cp -r or whatever Sep 06 18:47:02 or scp -r over a network Sep 06 18:47:04 or tar it Sep 06 18:47:04 or Sep 06 18:47:15 lol you don't need to keep going mate :) i'm embarressed enough lol Sep 06 18:47:16 br Sep 06 18:47:17 b Sep 06 18:47:18 :) Sep 06 18:47:50 Zuchmir2: yeah there are gonna be some prefs Sep 06 18:49:07 I actually like the idea of feed ipks since you should be able to palm-install them or install a feed from a feed from a feed, etc Sep 06 18:49:32 lol Sep 06 18:49:49 oh how we evolve this thing Sep 06 18:49:54 no need for a postinst, right? Sep 06 18:50:14 oil: what do we need to make preware work again? Sep 06 18:50:17 :D Sep 06 18:50:32 PuffTheMagic: you broke it? Sep 06 18:50:33 haha Sep 06 18:50:39 no Sep 06 18:50:45 or it was broken when you got there? Sep 06 18:50:46 oil / rwhitby did Sep 06 18:50:51 trying to make it faster Sep 06 18:51:05 should just do this in C Sep 06 18:51:08 :D Sep 06 18:51:13 now that we can Sep 06 18:51:52 you mean make a c service and implement the ipk functionality inside it, or maybe just add service functionality into the ipkg program and then add more fine grained methods to it Sep 06 18:52:09 enough of the header files have been figured out for C services ? Sep 06 18:52:14 destinal: well i am definately writing a upstart service Sep 06 18:52:27 once i get subscriptions working Sep 06 18:52:33 then we can send upstart events directly Sep 06 18:52:35 :D Sep 06 18:52:39 and listen to events Sep 06 18:52:42 and list services Sep 06 18:52:46 and start/stop them Sep 06 18:52:50 in a gui Sep 06 18:52:52 wow listen to upstart events? I hadn't thought of that Sep 06 18:52:57 destinal: :D Sep 06 18:53:00 thats why i wanted dbus Sep 06 18:53:07 in upstart Sep 06 18:53:10 which is like 0.5.x Sep 06 18:53:15 and 0.6.x Sep 06 18:53:17 of upstart Sep 06 18:53:22 but the pre uses 0.3.x Sep 06 18:53:25 how lame Sep 06 18:53:33 so the IPC is pretty shitty Sep 06 18:53:43 compared to the new dbus one Sep 06 18:53:51 but im gonna do it Sep 06 18:53:59 cause it will be sweet Sep 06 18:54:00 you said to get the new one working would require some changes in the build procedure ? Sep 06 18:54:12 new one? Sep 06 18:54:13 PuffTheMagic: in 1.2.0-0830 File /resources/webOS/nova-cust-image-castle.rootfs/sbin/upstart differs Sep 06 18:54:22 upstart 0.6 Sep 06 18:54:23 I wonder if it's updated Sep 06 18:54:32 that would be awesome Sep 06 18:54:49 unless palm makes an app to stop homebrew services Sep 06 18:54:50 lol Sep 06 18:55:03 look for dbus style functions in the new upstart ? Sep 06 18:55:09 I think preware + ipkg service has been reported to work Sep 06 18:55:57 they really changed a lot in this version, looks like updated a lot of the userland also Sep 06 18:56:08 good thing Sep 06 18:56:12 it was odl Sep 06 18:56:13 old Sep 06 18:57:09 Zuchmir2: im gonna make a branch in git for preware Sep 06 18:57:18 the goes back to before things broke Sep 06 18:57:25 and then cherry pick your 2 commits Sep 06 18:57:32 so if you want to test that branch Sep 06 18:57:35 i will give you the command Sep 06 18:57:57 i'm not using HEAD, i'm using 0.8.2, and manually modifying Sep 06 18:58:11 oh Sep 06 18:58:21 i assume the HEAD is broken Sep 06 18:58:23 er ok... clearly im missing something Sep 06 18:58:27 so thats what i was gonna put in master-feedipks Sep 06 18:58:51 i think oil mentioned something to the effect that service and mojo were out of sync Sep 06 18:58:59 yeah Sep 06 18:59:04 but i pull latest service too Sep 06 18:59:10 so rwhitby must have not pushed some commits Sep 06 18:59:21 not sure Sep 06 19:00:22 Zuchmir2: do you have more changes beyond the 2 commits Sep 06 19:00:27 if so push them to the new branch Sep 06 19:00:31 nope Sep 06 19:00:55 Is the webos image available for download in any other format that isn't a java based installer? Sep 06 19:01:04 the 2nd commit made it work nicer (since feed at the moment only has IPKG) Sep 06 19:01:37 sigh, nevermind, i'll just install jre Sep 06 19:09:35 ahh...zsoc why did you leave i just found where the text messages are stored...lol Sep 06 19:11:53 zsoc: jar = zip Sep 06 19:12:23 huh, I thought he was going to try to extract it rather than just reimage his pre Sep 06 19:14:53 some people are goofy it seems Sep 06 19:17:06 puff: were you using g_convert() for any reason besides ID? Sep 06 19:18:42 well if anyone want o know the text messages are kept in /var/luna/data/dbdata/palmdatabase.db3 Sep 06 19:19:49 destinal, do you know off hand where the webos doctor image is downloaded? All I'm getting is the app to ask me to restore my phone Sep 06 19:20:16 zsoc: messages are here /var/luna/data/dbdata/palmdatabase.db3 Sep 06 19:22:27 theo, thank you very much :) Sep 06 19:22:33 you don't have any idea how webos doctor works do you? :P Sep 06 19:23:13 sadly i do not... :-( Sep 06 19:23:17 you need to rip apart the jar file .. it's a zip .. Sep 06 19:23:18 zsoc: download the jar from the wiki link Sep 06 19:23:20 then inside there Sep 06 19:23:55 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Sep 06 19:23:58 ah, i was running the silly auto install from palms website :P Sep 06 19:23:59 thank you Sep 06 19:26:58 i looks like all it does is copy over the webos.tar, adn then copy over the spint.tar Sep 06 19:30:15 theres a little more to it, but i believe that is the jist of it Sep 06 19:31:58 it's the general diea Sep 06 19:34:02 theo: it also reflashes baseband, bootie, etc Sep 06 19:34:22 touchscreen firmware Sep 06 19:34:23 other stuff Sep 06 19:35:25 details, details! Sep 06 19:35:26 :) Sep 06 19:48:56 appserv Sep 06 20:00:25 my website/feed now supports deps :D Sep 06 20:00:42 does anyone know the oldest version of ipkgservice/preware that could install services? Sep 06 20:10:28 will all of the patches that can be installed via quilt or webosquickinstall eventually be added into Preware? Sep 06 20:11:01 no Sep 06 20:11:16 i mean people can make patches Sep 06 20:11:31 and package them as ipks Sep 06 20:11:42 but they better have good install scripts Sep 06 20:11:49 that check for when a patch fails Sep 06 20:11:53 and reverts the stuff that did Sep 06 20:11:55 gotcha Sep 06 20:12:04 or else there are gonna be some horridly broken pres Sep 06 20:12:16 heh Sep 06 20:12:21 just trying to figure out the easiest way for my friend to install some of the patches since he would probably struggle with using Putty Sep 06 20:12:56 quickinstall is probably the eaisest way without putty Sep 06 20:13:02 he shouldnt be using patches if he cant do this him self manually Sep 06 20:13:55 well we both work together and have horrible signal at work, so I want him to have the roam-only option on his phone Sep 06 20:14:02 guess I'll tell him to use webosquickinstall to do it Sep 06 20:14:42 roam only seriously should be there by default Sep 06 20:14:53 It was rediculous for them to to put it in' Sep 06 20:15:05 not to* Sep 06 20:15:18 true Sep 06 20:16:05 Especially with a phone with crazy antennae that have a mind of thir own Sep 06 20:19:05 Has anyone else noticed that the new novacom installer in 1.2 works flawless even on windows 7 Sep 06 20:22:34 does anyone know what actually checks for the 'com.palm' domain in the app id and restricts the access to certain Palm only API's? Sep 06 20:22:41 lol i borked my phone some serious Sep 06 20:23:04 the services themselves, don't seem to do the checking Sep 06 20:26:09 ok, got my messaging at working. now my launcher bar is broken. anyone know where the file tree is for that? Sep 06 20:26:48 wait, nope, that was my fault. forgot to revert a backup. ok good now Sep 06 20:26:52 bbl Sep 06 20:41:32 flpalm: part of LunaSysMgr binary i would imagine Sep 06 20:41:39 what acts as the dbus server Sep 06 20:42:16 PuffTheMagic: okay, I will look there, thanks Sep 06 20:44:41 but its closed source Sep 06 20:44:47 what do you expect to be able to change Sep 06 20:49:26 WHich services are restricted to "palm only" programs? Sep 06 20:49:37 There's nothing stopping you from just lying about your program's name. Sep 06 20:49:58 correct Sep 06 20:50:37 right, but I am looking for a way to not lie about my program name Sep 06 20:50:46 tough? Sep 06 20:51:01 look at the lunaservice jars Sep 06 20:51:07 see if you can find a way to get around it Sep 06 20:51:44 yeah, I was trying to see if there was an easy way to lie, but not lie if that makes sense--leave my appinfo correct, but still bypass the filter by setting some internal variable to system namespace Sep 06 20:52:34 Palm has a left a lot of their services locked up for seemingly no reason and I would like to bypass if possible, but keep my app's name out of their namespace Sep 06 20:53:06 flpalm: What access is blocked? Sep 06 20:53:49 quotemstr: contact access is restricted in non-palm apps to only contacts that you created Sep 06 20:54:06 It doesn't make sense that they'd do that. Sep 06 20:54:13 I want to do universal search in my app without having to resort to the renaming to the com.palm namespace Sep 06 20:54:31 Gah, I'm sick of this crap. What's wrong with making a completely open platform? Palm came so close.. Sep 06 20:54:52 flpalm: find the backend database files and read them yourself? Sep 06 20:55:45 quotemstr: I don't think I can access the filesystem either Sep 06 20:55:50 I could be wrong though Sep 06 20:55:52 as far as all the data put on the phone everything is in /var/luna/data/dbdata/palmdatabase.db3 Sep 06 20:56:23 is there a way to access that file from a standard javascript app? Sep 06 20:57:25 you would have to ask someone who is a lot more fimiliar with the two, whne it comes to that im braindead Sep 06 20:57:35 what is the question Sep 06 20:57:36 ? Sep 06 20:58:03 flpalm: nope cant access that file Sep 06 20:58:06 from the app Sep 06 20:58:54 yeah didn't think so--I was trying to figure out how they actually do the appID check to see if it was in the realm of the javascript so I could just override that functionality to allow any appID, but I didn't find it anywhere in the javascript pieces so far Sep 06 20:59:34 nope i believe its encoded into the libraries that do the functions Sep 06 21:00:54 anybody notice the perl script in the browser app on 1.2 Sep 06 21:02:05 and the keywords in the appinfo.json Sep 06 21:02:12 Im assuming the are for global search Sep 06 21:02:16 *they Sep 06 21:03:05 Running strings on /usr/bin/LunaSysMgr, there are quite a few references to "com.palm" Sep 06 21:03:30 someone want to tell me how i need to call swapScene in one of my scene Sep 06 21:03:42 i try using Sep 06 21:03:42 this.controller.swapScene Sep 06 21:03:47 but that aint working Sep 06 21:07:18 this.controller.stageController.swapScene Sep 06 21:07:53 atlanta: it is a method off of the stagecontroller as opposed to the scene controller Sep 06 21:09:43 oh ok Sep 06 21:09:44 thanks Sep 06 21:11:34 If I wrote a service to interact with an app I'm creating, how do I actually use the service from the app? Sep 06 21:12:42 the some docs on service on the wiki Sep 06 21:12:49 there are* Sep 06 21:13:56 ird: making Sep 06 21:13:58 service requestr Sep 06 21:14:21 aha Sep 06 21:14:23 I somehow missed it. Sep 06 21:14:26 Thanks Sep 06 21:16:06 not extremely helpful, but maybe I can figure it out. Sep 06 21:16:26 SNES? Sep 06 21:16:42 Wow, wrong chat much... Sep 06 21:19:01 ird: take a look at preware Sep 06 21:19:08 ird: in app/models Sep 06 21:19:27 ok. Sep 06 21:19:29 Thanks. Sep 06 21:23:19 Howdy all Sep 06 21:23:31 Hola Sep 06 21:24:19 So I was looking at the features of the leaked 1.2, I figure those are just the front end features, has anything changed about the file structure or backend? Sep 06 21:25:19 And I wonder if they've truly embraced homebrew and removed the limiter on app space Sep 06 21:25:25 Not that I am aware of Sep 06 21:26:08 Argh the stupid limiter, I can't even download/update app catalog stuff because of it. I think it will be removed when the catalog comes out of beta Sep 06 21:26:11 hmm, I was sad to see no cpu-scaling Sep 06 21:26:39 Yeah I tried a couple things and couldn't get the app catalog to free up space Sep 06 21:27:12 the /var folder can't be more than 40% used in my experiences Sep 06 21:27:28 Deleting homebrew, deleting official apps, rerouting the apps to /media/internal... Sep 06 21:28:17 I read it had something to do with thttpd or another web service Sep 06 21:30:43 man 1080p looks really good Sep 06 21:30:52 rwhitby: whats the site i can add my app to the preware feed Sep 06 21:41:25 when you try to save an image to photos in 1.2 in the broswer does it actually save it yet.. Or is that still unimplemented? Sep 06 21:47:16 edektor, a post on pre-central says it works, but I haven't tried. Sep 06 21:47:49 cause the function that is calls doesnt really do anything that I can see Sep 06 21:49:47 kesne_: pinf Sep 06 21:49:48 ping Sep 06 21:49:58 yeah? Sep 06 21:50:14 atlanta: there is no preware feed - there are webosinternals and preyourmind feeds Sep 06 21:50:22 webos Sep 06 21:50:24 there we go Sep 06 21:50:55 for both of those, if it's open source and uses -internals stuff, we can put it in the git repo and autobuild it. Sep 06 21:51:07 or you can talk to PuffTheMagic and get it on preyourmind.org Sep 06 21:51:51 Rick told me that because I'm stopping development on my app, that I should just tell you to put it on the git repo Sep 06 21:52:28 kesne_: oh, you're just going to open source it and allow the community to take it from there? Sep 06 21:52:35 eyah Sep 06 21:53:20 http://gitorious.org/webos-applications/ is what you want then. Sep 06 21:53:46 alright, thanks! Sep 06 21:55:24 Do there happen to be any webos-internals pages on the palm://com.palm.mediadb/ service? Noticed it's used in drPodder and palm apps... Sep 06 21:55:31 Do you have to have a com.palm.* appid? Sep 06 21:56:25 Zuchmir2: the concern is about closed source services and plugins, not closed source webos applications Sep 06 21:56:35 PuffTheMagic: ^^ Sep 06 21:59:01 oil: that new preware is superfast Sep 06 22:00:09 Oh hey... changing my appID to com.palm.com.decafbad.foo worked, heh Sep 06 22:00:49 witht the MIT license can you still put a price on the app Sep 06 22:00:51 ? Sep 06 22:01:04 I am getting very frustrated with trying to store objects in cookies. :-( Sep 06 22:01:16 I don't want to do a full blown database for a freaking high score. Sep 06 22:01:17 :-( Sep 06 22:01:19 blarg Sep 06 22:01:22 atlanta: Sure, but I think then the person paying it is free to share it Sep 06 22:01:26 and I'm feeling like an idiot Sep 06 22:01:47 lmorchard: ok thanks ill look more into it Sep 06 22:02:32 The MIT license is pretty short & to the point - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License Sep 06 22:02:57 cool thats what i was looking for Sep 06 22:02:59 all the others are long Sep 06 22:03:03 well some of them Sep 06 22:03:06 thanks Sep 06 22:09:46 PuffTheMagic, Zuchmir2: latest ipkgservice and preware seem to be working fine here - what problem are you experience that you are attributing to a bug in preware? Sep 06 22:13:37 wow, using the raw files has made the preware git head blazingly fast Sep 06 22:15:00 i pulled ipkgservice from head and it didnt work Sep 06 22:20:53 ok so now i am testing latest version of both Sep 06 22:21:15 and same problem Sep 06 22:21:29 nothing shows up in any category Sep 06 22:25:57 Hey can someone please remind me how to Putty into the Emulator? Sep 06 22:26:13 or is that even possible? Sep 06 22:26:36 seems like i did it once before, but cant remember how.. Sep 06 22:28:00 localhost port 5522 user:"root" pw:"" Sep 06 22:28:45 * Templarian noticing that others are starting to use the "I Support WebOS Internals" avatars on precentral. Sep 06 22:29:22 PuffTheMagic: ipkgservice from head (which is actually identical to the public release version) and Preware public release or git head all work here. Sep 06 22:29:39 cool i'll try that thanks Sep 06 22:30:16 that worked thanks :) Sep 06 22:31:34 Templarian: lol Sep 06 22:31:57 PuffTheMagic: even the new Available Feeds works Sep 06 22:32:13 well those "should" work Sep 06 22:32:22 * PuffTheMagic is rebooting Sep 06 22:32:25 seeing if that helps Sep 06 22:33:24 omg the usb port on this pre is such a piece of shit Sep 06 22:33:32 i dropped my pre the other day Sep 06 22:33:36 sorta Sep 06 22:33:42 it was attached to my laptop Sep 06 22:33:44 and i picked it up Sep 06 22:34:04 and the pre fell from about a foot onto carpet Sep 06 22:34:07 not a big deal Sep 06 22:34:17 but as it hung from the usb port something got "bent" Sep 06 22:34:20 or something Sep 06 22:34:25 ouch Sep 06 22:34:33 but now when usb is plugged in the slider aint perfect Sep 06 22:35:13 yep i just did a reboot at it still dont work Sep 06 22:37:04 yeesh... my #1 wishlist item for P120 is a sturdier form factor :P Sep 06 22:37:21 "Available Packages" Sep 06 22:37:29 never mind Sep 06 22:37:33 but it wont happen i know. Sep 06 22:37:34 i was looking at backlog without knowing it Sep 06 22:37:34 :/ Sep 06 22:39:09 I noticed things are loading faster in the new Preware myself, nice job Oil Sep 06 22:39:15 CreoBrian: P120? Sep 06 22:39:17 yes they are Sep 06 22:39:21 oil: nice work on using the raw files. Sep 06 22:39:24 082? Sep 06 22:39:27 preware is lookin pretty darn good Sep 06 22:39:28 Yeah Sep 06 22:39:36 wait till you see 083, srsly Sep 06 22:39:41 except service installation and postinstalls Sep 06 22:39:44 http://www.precentral.net/new-palm-phones-sprint-inventory-p120-and-c40 Sep 06 22:39:47 I just don't see any more available patches Sep 06 22:39:58 Did you put patch updates in with available updates? Sep 06 22:40:29 Nope Sep 06 22:40:37 Puff: i'm actually pretty excited about it, though I dont expect i'll have $ for an updated Pre Sep 06 22:40:42 only patch is virtual kb Sep 06 22:40:42 And Templarian I'm rockin the avatar on the forums, with my own little twist Sep 06 22:40:50 Yeah and it doesn't show up for me Sep 06 22:40:56 oh? Sep 06 22:41:01 do you have it installed? Sep 06 22:41:04 Most analysts are guessing its a 16gb model Sep 06 22:41:07 Available patches is greyed out Sep 06 22:41:08 k4p741nkrunch: Yea I saw didn't realise you were on earlier. Sep 06 22:41:29 * Eguy is waiting for 128gb Palm phone Sep 06 22:41:36 Also available applications dropped to 171, before 082 it was at like 211 Sep 06 22:41:44 ......for $49.99 on 2 year contract Sep 06 22:41:51 k4p741nkrunch: check the prefs for installed as available Sep 06 22:41:53 * k4p741nkrunch 1PB Palm Pre, do want Sep 06 22:42:03 hahaha 1tb Sep 06 22:42:17 Was there always Preware Preferences?? Sep 06 22:42:29 1 petabyte? sure, why not? lol Sep 06 22:42:31 "Palm Pre 2: Giving you 1TB so you can carry your whole pr0n collection...on the go!" Sep 06 22:42:40 k4p741nkrunch it was introduced in 082 Sep 06 22:43:07 1 PB so they can carry the whole internet's "pr0n collection" Sep 06 22:43:12 Eguy: the little astrick footer text that follows would be pretty funny. Sep 06 22:43:28 Did you notice that you can't click On the top left button when you're already in preferences Sep 06 22:43:59 "The internet is for porn, the internet is for porn, why do you think the net was born? Porn, porn, pornnnnn" Sep 06 22:44:15 Has anybody seen that play? Sep 06 22:44:20 A series of tubes... NOW I GET IT! Sep 06 22:44:28 its not a truck? Sep 06 22:44:49 Well the trucks are mostly plowed repeatedly into the tubes Sep 06 22:44:54 :) Sep 06 22:45:00 Anyone else have serious guesses about the P120? Sep 06 22:45:06 just wonderin Sep 06 22:45:12 what yall think Sep 06 22:45:41 > 8GB of storage hopefully Sep 06 22:45:49 but this is a watercooler conversation Sep 06 22:45:49 er Sep 06 22:45:53 * Eguy facepalms Sep 06 22:46:04 I would imagine they would increase storage, larger battery, and if they really wanna make all the early adopters upset an actual GPU Sep 06 22:46:24 PuffTheMagic: I told a like - ipkgservice 0.8.4 is still in the alpha testing feed only, not the public feed. Sep 06 22:46:54 is 083 PreWare available for alpha Sep 06 22:46:57 s/like/lie/ Sep 06 22:46:57 rwhitby meant: PuffTheMagic: I told a lie - ipkgservice 0.8.4 is still in the alpha testing feed only, not the public feed. Sep 06 22:47:10 k4p741nkrunch: take a look and see Sep 06 22:47:16 haha will do Sep 06 22:47:21 k well take care folks thanks again for sharing the genius. Sep 06 22:47:50 ipkgservice 0.8.4 and preware 0.8.3 are available in the alpha testing area Sep 06 22:48:30 but I'm going to release ipkgservice 0.8.4 to give people time to install it before preware 0.8.4 (which will have a hard dependencies on ipkgservice 0.8.4 or later) Sep 06 22:50:37 ipkgservice 0.8.4 is released, with super-fast loading support for the super-fast loading added in the next preware. Sep 06 22:50:54 awesome, dl now Sep 06 22:50:58 Me too Sep 06 22:51:14 oil: is it more than 10 times faster do you think? Sep 06 22:51:36 * rwhitby bbl Sep 06 22:53:00 hmm Sep 06 22:53:06 Downloading http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7/Packages.gz Inflating http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/preware/armv7/Packages.gz An error ocurred, return value: 5. Sep 06 22:53:35 feed updating problems? Sep 06 22:55:06 rwhitby its way faster Sep 06 22:55:31 but its still missing not parsing some packages, and i havent figured it out yet Sep 06 22:56:14 egal, idk what your problem is Sep 06 22:56:42 is the new preware under webos-applications/installer? Sep 06 22:56:53 wha? Sep 06 22:57:02 weird Sep 06 22:57:03 On gitorious Sep 06 22:57:07 maybe I will reboot Sep 06 22:57:25 oh, that was ricks start of it Sep 06 22:57:28 before i took over Sep 06 22:57:40 i dont think that does anything other then display a list of buttons Sep 06 22:58:00 I remember Preware used to have it's own section on Gitorious, now I can't find it Sep 06 22:58:15 oil: Preware is not behaving correctly Sep 06 22:58:18 its still missing pacakges Sep 06 22:58:27 i know Sep 06 22:58:33 but i dont know why :/ Sep 06 22:58:44 well it is missing sysfsbatteryservice Sep 06 22:58:51 and there is more than 1 version in the feed Sep 06 22:58:52 k4p741nkrunch: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=summary Sep 06 22:58:55 but led service works Sep 06 22:58:58 which has only 1 version Sep 06 22:59:08 yeah, idk Sep 06 22:59:16 its the battery service Sep 06 22:59:26 and teh gnu patch binary Sep 06 22:59:30 Is there currently a way to have the keyboard brightness bright and the screen light dim? Sep 06 22:59:48 Abyssul: nfc Sep 06 22:59:52 oil: well figure it out :D Sep 06 23:00:11 oil: stop being prejudice against multiple version pacakges Sep 06 23:00:24 abyssul brightness unlinked Sep 06 23:00:30 or whatever it is called Sep 06 23:01:03 Zuchmir2: ping Sep 06 23:08:12 question: has anyone installed kismet from here --> http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ and if so to run on my linux laptop i would type kismet -c (driver #),eth0 (or whatever),name (anmything) ... does anyone know what you would put when running on the pre terminal kismet -c ?,?,? Sep 06 23:08:36 Does anyone know of a way to grab an application's source from the emulator? I'm not interested in stealing code, just interested in a few techniques Sep 06 23:09:48 oil:pong Sep 06 23:10:14 whats with the addition of the 'available feeds' that doesnt work? Sep 06 23:10:42 does removing that fix the HEAD? Sep 06 23:10:57 no Sep 06 23:11:01 i was just wondering why Sep 06 23:11:25 rwhitby claims it's workinf, puff says it's not :-( Sep 06 23:11:40 its not listing anything for me Sep 06 23:11:46 i only toched that feed Sep 06 23:12:10 what? Sep 06 23:12:57 i only touched (added) the "Available Feeds", i don't know about the rest Sep 06 23:13:10 yeah, i was just wondering why Sep 06 23:13:31 what was the purpose for having that button on the main scene Sep 06 23:14:24 the feed is a seperate Type: Sep 06 23:14:40 it is? Sep 06 23:14:42 see the last entry in http://preyourmind.org/services/feed/Packages Sep 06 23:14:57 Does anyone know of a way to grab an application's source from the emulator? I'm not interested in stealing code, just interested in a few techniques.. Sep 06 23:15:07 the purpose of that type is to allow alternate feeds to be added Sep 06 23:15:43 i really think we should do that separate from the main scene Sep 06 23:15:56 adding feeds/etc that is Sep 06 23:15:59 I got JewishContent.org in my available feeds Sep 06 23:16:04 ... w/o the user having to go through command line interface to install feeed Sep 06 23:16:12 yeah Sep 06 23:16:14 have it part of hte app Sep 06 23:16:29 im just saying i dont think it belongs there on the main scene between applications and patches Sep 06 23:16:34 oil: available feeds works for me Sep 06 23:16:41 idk why it wouldnt work for u Sep 06 23:16:56 no i got the service working Sep 06 23:17:07 for some reason the 0.8.3 ipk works Sep 06 23:17:11 but if u pull from git Sep 06 23:17:11 Icons loaded so much quicker on 082 Sep 06 23:17:14 and build the jar Sep 06 23:17:18 im not talking about weather or not it works Sep 06 23:17:19 and copy it ot the pre Sep 06 23:17:22 it dont work Sep 06 23:17:38 i dont mind if it moves down on the pae and/or a prefs to hide it Sep 06 23:17:40 weather or not it belongs right there on the main scene Sep 06 23:17:56 I think it fits Sep 06 23:18:13 but it causes the main scene to scroll, something we were trying to stay away from Sep 06 23:18:13 oil: im not 100% sure about it yet Sep 06 23:18:13 I have a question. How can I remove services I installed using Preware using command lines Sep 06 23:18:18 but its fine there for now Sep 06 23:18:22 That is, if people are really gonna add new feeds Sep 06 23:18:25 the simplest way for aunt minie to install feed is to install ipk, rather than replying on misspellings Sep 06 23:18:25 oil: the main screen dont scrool Sep 06 23:18:27 scroll Sep 06 23:18:36 it does if you have libraries turned on Sep 06 23:18:42 you know, that option you asked for Sep 06 23:18:46 Mine works and I have libraries off Sep 06 23:19:01 Does anyone know of a way to grab a bunch of files from the emulator? Sep 06 23:19:04 i think its fits much better in the menu Sep 06 23:19:45 wtf is the automatically install option? Sep 06 23:19:54 i don't mind it in menu, but i think it should be an IPK vs. manualy typing in the feed URL etc Sep 06 23:19:56 something that doesnt work yet Sep 06 23:19:58 oil: yes it should be a menu item Sep 06 23:20:09 oil: what is it supposed to do? Sep 06 23:20:17 to allow it to check for updates in the background Sep 06 23:20:18 It's the take the fun out of updating crap yourself button Sep 06 23:20:23 and if you toggle that, allow it to update them Sep 06 23:20:51 It's not available yet though right Sep 06 23:21:02 right, its disabled Sep 06 23:21:16 bbl Sep 06 23:21:18 oil: can you change split "libraries" into plugins and services Sep 06 23:21:31 cause libraries dont really fit Sep 06 23:21:53 its more then plugins and services Sep 06 23:21:58 there was discussion about what to call them Sep 06 23:22:09 well i missed this... Sep 06 23:22:16 the "LinuxBinary" type goes in there also Sep 06 23:22:17 but libraries is terrible Sep 06 23:22:24 what do you think is better? Sep 06 23:22:52 well on the main screen Sep 06 23:22:56 i think available applications Sep 06 23:22:58 should be changed Sep 06 23:23:01 to available packages Sep 06 23:23:07 then when you click on that Sep 06 23:23:09 but its listing only applications Sep 06 23:23:16 you get Applications/Services/Plugins etc.. Sep 06 23:23:23 patchs Sep 06 23:23:28 really though Sep 06 23:23:32 the reason if splitting them off Sep 06 23:23:34 then patches can be removed from main screen Sep 06 23:23:39 is that 90% of users arent going to care Sep 06 23:23:44 i know Sep 06 23:23:45 once dependencies are working correctly Sep 06 23:23:51 Does anyone know of a way to grab a bunch of files from the emulator? Sep 06 23:23:51 but Libraries is such a bad term Sep 06 23:24:04 oil: how about this Sep 06 23:24:12 if services and plugins are disabled in prefs Sep 06 23:24:23 then the main screen could show avaliable applications Sep 06 23:24:33 if either or both are enabled it shoudl show available pacakges Sep 06 23:24:47 but i still think patches should go in available pacakges Sep 06 23:24:53 there should be a toggle for patches too Sep 06 23:24:57 CreoBrian you can always try to SCP info the emulator Sep 06 23:25:11 from windows? Sep 06 23:25:13 I've seen some people struggle with that though Sep 06 23:25:13 .. Sep 06 23:25:16 Yep Sep 06 23:25:22 Get WinSCP Sep 06 23:25:33 ah Sep 06 23:25:36 lol Sep 06 23:25:41 will try. Thanks for responding Sep 06 23:25:43 heh Sep 06 23:25:51 or pscp Sep 06 23:25:57 oil: i feel that the main screen should onlyt have "Pacakge updates, available pacakges, and installed pacakges" Sep 06 23:25:58 No prob Sep 06 23:26:07 I need to remove services from my phone. What's the command? Sep 06 23:26:17 which services? Sep 06 23:26:25 services are not libraries Sep 06 23:26:30 plugins are no libraries Sep 06 23:26:32 Two services I installed using Preware. Sep 06 23:26:43 linux bin applications are not libraries Sep 06 23:26:46 libs is horrible Sep 06 23:26:47 so now only 3 buttons? Sep 06 23:26:48 just click remove Sep 06 23:26:57 You can uninstall through Preware or through WebOSQuickInstall Sep 06 23:27:13 I kinda like the 3 buttons idea Sep 06 23:27:19 oil: yes... the origional draft of the main page did not take into acount feeds,patches,plugins,services etc.. Sep 06 23:27:28 Eguy: Remove of services is not support atm and I do not run Windows. Sep 06 23:27:30 we need to be able to expand more easily Sep 06 23:27:40 expand MORE? Sep 06 23:27:46 and lumping everhting non mojo into libraries is crap Sep 06 23:27:53 why? Sep 06 23:28:06 Yeah that is a problem, services were once supported now they all of a sudden aren't Sep 06 23:28:25 Oil, are service installs working on 084? Sep 06 23:28:27 k4p741nkrunch: they are just hidden cause they are not as important to oil as mojo apps Sep 06 23:28:28 thatdude: you can remove them with webos quick install Sep 06 23:28:38 to oil? Sep 06 23:28:44 or to 90% of the users Sep 06 23:28:54 oil: I do not run Windows Sep 06 23:29:27 One sec thatdude Sep 06 23:29:48 I just need the command so I can do it manually thru ssh Sep 06 23:30:05 preware isnt just for non dev users Sep 06 23:30:12 i know that Sep 06 23:30:13 Well I think the new alpha version of Preware can remove it Sep 06 23:30:23 You would have to clone the git repo to get it Sep 06 23:30:24 which is why there is the option to turn on the extra stuff Sep 06 23:30:51 so why cant the extra stuff get better orginization Sep 06 23:30:52 k4p741nkrunch: no version of preware can remove services Sep 06 23:30:56 instead of this libraries stuff Sep 06 23:31:06 the pre removal script kills services Sep 06 23:31:09 * thatdude agrees with Puff Sep 06 23:31:09 so it never actually removes the pckage Sep 06 23:31:26 what do you mean by better organization? Sep 06 23:31:34 if you click "libraries" Sep 06 23:31:37 it goes to a type-list Sep 06 23:31:38 I used to be able to update ipkgservice right from Preware Sep 06 23:31:43 services, plugins, binarys, etc Sep 06 23:31:48 thatdude: you can remove from CLI Sep 06 23:31:50 is that not good organization? Sep 06 23:31:53 no its not Sep 06 23:31:56 what platform do you have? Sep 06 23:31:58 how isnt it? Sep 06 23:32:02 none of the things in the libraries category are libraries Sep 06 23:32:05 that is problem number 1 Sep 06 23:32:11 do you have a better name? Sep 06 23:32:14 Eguy: Linux Sep 06 23:32:21 oil: why do they need a special name Sep 06 23:32:26 every package has a type Sep 06 23:32:31 Eguy: Please message me the command line cause I have to run out. Sep 06 23:32:33 what is wrong with just using the type as a filter Sep 06 23:32:41 in the available packages view Sep 06 23:32:51 that would be infinately expandable Sep 06 23:32:56 whats wrong with grouping the "barely looked at" stuff in a special category? Sep 06 23:33:09 oil: cause you are forcing your pov on others Sep 06 23:33:22 and treating mojo apps special Sep 06 23:33:30 as if they were more important or something Sep 06 23:33:32 thats what most people are going for Sep 06 23:33:35 they go to install an app Sep 06 23:33:36 not a service Sep 06 23:33:43 the service is something that goes along with the app Sep 06 23:33:53 no Sep 06 23:33:57 and by they Sep 06 23:34:00 i mean, everyone but you Sep 06 23:34:00 Eguy: Thanks a lot buddy. I gotta run now. I see your message in irssi. Thanks! Sep 06 23:34:14 oil: thatdude just said he supports what im saying Sep 06 23:34:17 so its not just me Sep 06 23:34:20 lol Sep 06 23:34:25 no worries Sep 06 23:34:30 At first run, ask the user if they will be interested in downloading services/plugins Sep 06 23:34:40 but always allow it to be changable in preferences. Sep 06 23:34:48 oil: ok so if we have Type: Application, Service, Plugin, Feed, Patch Sep 06 23:34:55 and Application is on by default Sep 06 23:34:56 and LinuxBinary Sep 06 23:34:57 and cat be disabled Sep 06 23:35:03 and the others can be disabled in preferences Sep 06 23:35:09 yeah Sep 06 23:35:22 why cant Avaiable Applications change to Available Packages Sep 06 23:35:26 and have a type filter Sep 06 23:35:36 if all the extras are disabled Sep 06 23:35:36 I like that idea Sep 06 23:35:42 you can default to Available Applications Sep 06 23:35:54 that would keep the main screen clean Sep 06 23:35:57 lol, oil.. i updated to the latest version on the git and soon realized it was a mistake. Sep 06 23:36:12 it would allow additional types Sep 06 23:36:17 What's the matter Decimation? Sep 06 23:36:35 newest version on the GIT doesn't load the packages.. Sep 06 23:36:56 I'm on the latest and it's working perfectly Sep 06 23:37:07 on the git? Sep 06 23:37:08 hah I finally helped someone Sep 06 23:37:15 * Eguy feels productive Sep 06 23:37:24 I just git cloned like 10 minutes ago Sep 06 23:37:34 hmm, wth. Sep 06 23:37:45 You get the new ipkgservice too? Sep 06 23:37:47 Decimation: i had that issue too Sep 06 23:37:54 just noticed theres a new service Sep 06 23:37:58 Decimation: you have to use the ipk from the preware feed Sep 06 23:38:10 building a jar from HEAD dont seem to work Sep 06 23:38:20 Did you reboot or pkill LunaSysMgr after installing? Sep 06 23:38:58 k4p741nkrunch: just installed the ipkg service Sep 06 23:39:00 its good now Sep 06 23:39:08 you need need to reboot or pkill LunaSysMgr though.. Sep 06 23:39:37 Yeah found that out when I was racing to be the first to get Preware 080 Sep 06 23:40:00 And I rebooted on accident instead of the latter option Sep 06 23:40:29 hmm weird I am getting permission denied over ssh Sep 06 23:40:38 with what? Sep 06 23:40:40 how do I make myself root Sep 06 23:40:44 sudo -i Sep 06 23:40:49 oil: so can you tell me why you dont like the idea I suggested, it seems like it would be clean and keep 90% of the users happy :) Sep 06 23:40:49 I forget Sep 06 23:41:03 >90% Sep 06 23:41:08 oh for god sake, thanks k4p741nkrunch Sep 06 23:41:12 not saying i dont like it Sep 06 23:41:18 92.169% approx Sep 06 23:41:31 hmm password was rejected Sep 06 23:41:52 how do i do | in terminal on the pre Sep 06 23:42:04 orange space Sep 06 23:42:09 oh no that is esc Sep 06 23:42:25 Decimation, Orange+Period Sep 06 23:42:28 orange period Sep 06 23:42:34 damn you! haha Sep 06 23:42:38 Muhahaha Sep 06 23:43:00 I need to change privleges on my account I made during the optware setup Sep 06 23:43:03 bleh Sep 06 23:43:05 Soo did you stop fat-fingering the keyboard and log in properly yet? Sep 06 23:43:06 too lazy Sep 06 23:43:09 :P Sep 06 23:43:32 is there a default root password on this thing? Sep 06 23:43:37 is it just root? Sep 06 23:43:43 It's the same password you have for your user Sep 06 23:43:57 access denied Sep 06 23:44:11 Caps lock != cruise control for awesome Sep 06 23:44:49 Hmm and you logged in before just fine or is this the first time? Sep 06 23:45:45 never as root Sep 06 23:45:50 I just use my user account Sep 06 23:46:06 but I never tried doing stuff needing root privleges Sep 06 23:46:12 can't spell today Sep 06 23:47:08 I wish I could find the page I used to setup my user. I didn't run the optware-bootstrap.sh that it says to on the wiki. I've never had an issue Sep 06 23:47:40 I can't use my linux knowledge right now, that part of my brain is out of order atm Sep 06 23:47:57 my Windows switch is on though Sep 06 23:48:39 Do you have the terminal app on your pre Sep 06 23:48:46 sudo -i = leet? Sep 06 23:49:01 yes I do Sep 06 23:49:13 sudo -i = t3h m4st3r Sep 06 23:49:20 Go to it and type passwd Sep 06 23:49:40 sudo -i = security vulnerability Sep 06 23:49:51 still rebooting from installing ipkgservice 084 Sep 06 23:49:59 lol, no ones trying to hack my pre. Sep 06 23:50:03 I'll get back to you in 3 hours when it boots back up Sep 06 23:50:15 Eguy Sep 06 23:50:26 Don't always reboot when you're done installing stuff Sep 06 23:50:43 Eguy, you don't need to reboot Sep 06 23:50:46 once you get ssh working just go to it and type pkill LunaSysMgr, much much quicker Sep 06 23:50:53 I was lazy Sep 06 23:51:02 k4p741nkrunch: you don't need to do that either. Sep 06 23:51:03 opt sym r is so easy Sep 06 23:51:12 Oooh do tell Sep 06 23:51:24 you simply let your phone sit for 15 seconds Sep 06 23:51:24 lol Sep 06 23:51:32 luna-send refresh blah blah blah Sep 06 23:51:33 ..wah Sep 06 23:51:42 mhm. Sep 06 23:51:54 You mean let it go to sleep? Sep 06 23:52:01 no.. Sep 06 23:52:01 *turns around, still booting.....* Sep 06 23:52:13 only another 2 hours to go Sep 06 23:52:15 why do you reboot ? Sep 06 23:52:27 is it because its laggy or something? Sep 06 23:52:32 For ipkgservice you need to or it will hang on updating Sep 06 23:52:38 no, didnt for me. Sep 06 23:52:41 A 10 year old computer with vista on it boots faster than a Pre Sep 06 23:52:41 Weird Sep 06 23:53:01 Eguy that's because it needs to load the awesome Sep 06 23:53:01 also has more processing power.. Sep 06 23:53:06 and more optomized code.. Sep 06 23:53:09 True Sep 06 23:53:16 lol load the awesome Sep 06 23:53:31 Is the boot done yet? Sep 06 23:53:37 The only thing it is loading is lag Sep 06 23:53:52 Yup it just came up Sep 06 23:53:55 boot should take no more than 3 minutes. Sep 06 23:54:03 You guys know of anyone working on a themer app? Sep 06 23:54:10 I'm thinking about making one myself Sep 06 23:54:13 k4p741krunch: yes Sep 06 23:54:17 work with AnOutsider Sep 06 23:54:18 I just changed the root password Sep 06 23:54:24 it worked Sep 06 23:54:55 I wrote a couple scripts that switch files and rename appropriately and it inspired me Sep 06 23:54:59 well Sep 06 23:55:02 when I say it worked Sep 06 23:55:15 I still get access denied in putty but forget it I don't really care Sep 06 23:55:27 Eguy don't give up! Sep 06 23:55:37 krunch: jason has a service working that unzips files to the correct location. Sep 06 23:55:42 I'm gonna jump! Sep 06 23:55:56 <|Jason8|Raph|> I am awesome1 Sep 06 23:56:03 Yes you are Jason Sep 06 23:56:09 <|Jason8|Raph|> :P Sep 06 23:56:14 Jason = god Sep 06 23:56:17 And apparently you are watching this thread like a hawk Sep 06 23:56:20 next to me of course Sep 06 23:56:26 :) Sep 06 23:56:27 thread != channel Sep 06 23:56:31 <|Jason8|Raph|> Actually I don't even have a Pre. Sep 06 23:56:39 <|Jason8|Raph|> And I'm pretty sure I'm not the right Jason. :P Sep 06 23:56:47 You and Rod.. so I think the genius comes from desire ;) Sep 06 23:56:48 no sir you are not ;) Sep 06 23:56:53 Zune battery life = fail Sep 06 23:56:55 Hahahaha Sep 06 23:56:58 Whoops Sep 06 23:57:04 I love my zune :( Sep 06 23:57:04 <|Jason8|Raph|> XD Sep 06 23:57:11 Your name was blue so I thought that meant God Sep 06 23:57:11 Eguy: not the hd! Sep 06 23:57:21 I have a 120 Sep 06 23:57:24 Wait wait Sep 06 23:57:28 the battery life is POOR Sep 06 23:57:34 I like my Zen Vision better Sep 06 23:57:38 That's watercooler stuff broham Sep 06 23:57:42 but I ran out of space Sep 06 23:57:56 ZuneHD = leet power + leet battery Sep 06 23:58:09 <|Jason8|Raph|> the ZuneHD looks awesome. Sep 06 23:58:22 YES Sep 06 23:58:24 I want Sep 06 23:58:30 * k4p741nkrunch points to the refreshing beverage dispenser Sep 06 23:58:31 well not really cause I need 120gb Sep 06 23:58:31 im getting ;) Sep 06 23:59:26 i have a question about kismet and using it on the pre terminal..anyone ? Sep 06 23:59:51 what is terminal? Sep 07 00:00:00 lol, shut up Sep 07 00:00:13 daybreak it won't work Sep 07 00:00:19 gotta have fun sometime eh? Sep 07 00:00:27 But I applaud you trying Sep 07 00:00:38 IRC sarcasm always gives me my fill. Sep 07 00:01:14 ya i usually run kismet on my laptop by typeing kismet -c rt2500,eth0,usb Sep 07 00:01:26 i dont know what interface to use or the driver Sep 07 00:01:28 woah my handwriting is poor Sep 07 00:01:31 The wifi chipset won't support monitor mode Sep 07 00:01:59 And the wifi is eth0 Sep 07 00:02:13 ok Sep 07 00:02:25 the Pre's lan is eth1 Sep 07 00:02:31 and firewire is eth2 Sep 07 00:02:50 Eguy do you have the P120? Sep 07 00:02:57 With the 1PB SSD? Sep 07 00:02:59 I have the P150 Sep 07 00:03:16 the cpu does 45 teraflops a second Sep 07 00:03:29 Prism based huh Sep 07 00:03:35 and it has a esata port Sep 07 00:03:54 and a 972844mah battery that weighs 3 tons Sep 07 00:04:03 Why would you need esata when you can house the Library of Congress in uncompressed pdf form on your Pre Sep 07 00:04:19 for video collection Sep 07 00:04:44 Eguy you're in watercooler..but you aren't :P Sep 07 00:04:50 I know Sep 07 00:04:54 I am going to shut up now Sep 07 00:05:04 Haha just translate Sep 07 00:05:04 i have a an cace tech airpcap usb card..would like to see if i could connect it to a usb to micro usb and see what happens..although that airpcap usb was designed for windows..not sure if there are even any drivers out for linux Sep 07 00:05:10 http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/commentary/sexdrive/2005/03/67007 Sep 07 00:05:14 gotta have it on the road Sep 07 00:06:42 So whats up with the new pack manager? What did it change? Sep 07 00:06:56 Allows for custom feeds Sep 07 00:07:01 Oh cool Sep 07 00:07:35 And it fixed the displayed size issue Sep 07 00:07:56 I wanna know why they got rid of updating patches and services on there? Sep 07 00:08:23 Splmonster: its not complete. Sep 07 00:08:30 IT used to work fine Sep 07 00:08:35 Yeah me too SPL Sep 07 00:08:37 50% fail rate on it. Sep 07 00:08:42 Oh I see Sep 07 00:08:46 Mine went 100 before Sep 07 00:08:50 how often do the feeds update? is it like 15 minutes? Sep 07 00:08:57 or you could say 50% success rate Sep 07 00:08:57 Every launch Sep 07 00:09:06 There's the optimist Sep 07 00:09:07 he means the actual feed? Sep 07 00:09:52 Can't wait for the new Palm update!! Sep 07 00:10:01 The actual one Sep 07 00:10:08 I mean I was tempted to try it within doctor Sep 07 00:10:12 Maybe it will come with an improved SDK! Sep 07 00:10:12 but decided to be patient Sep 07 00:10:24 good idea Sep 07 00:10:26 so is there a rumored release date for 1.2? Sep 07 00:10:30 today! Sep 07 00:10:37 Really? Sep 07 00:10:38 Nifty. Sep 07 00:10:44 Eguy, sarcasm isn't good all the time. Sep 07 00:10:46 Well considering it got leaked like that, its very soon I would imagine Sep 07 00:10:46 im worried about the palm update...i dont want to own a brick due to my laziness of not removing tweeks and patches before installing update Sep 07 00:10:48 * quotemstr doesn't look forward to having to re-modify all his applications Sep 07 00:11:06 haha I know Sep 07 00:11:10 no not today Sep 07 00:11:13 I hope Palm will name the next version 1.2.1 or something to avoid confusion with the leaked version. Sep 07 00:11:15 quotemstr: ah, the guy who told me i was making a fool of myself in public. Sep 07 00:11:24 But I reckon this week Sep 07 00:11:27 Maybe they will, but doubt it Sep 07 00:11:28 Decimation: You were, then. That was yesterday. Sep 07 00:11:33 I say wednesday Sep 07 00:11:35 Daybreak don't worrk about a brick Sep 07 00:11:36 Or maybe the day before. Sep 07 00:11:40 worry* Sep 07 00:11:45 maybe thursday Sep 07 00:11:52 quotemstr: you must've completely misread the conversation then. Sep 07 00:11:57 Decimation: Probably. Sep 07 00:11:58 A Palm rep told me they are working on 2.0 heavily Sep 07 00:12:02 There's not much at ALL that a clean webos doctor won't fix Sep 07 00:12:05 Decimation: I don't care anymore. Sep 07 00:12:12 quotemstr: fyi, he was banned, i wasn't ;) Sep 07 00:12:30 Decimation: Well, I'll give you another shot then. :-) Sep 07 00:12:38 ;) thank you fine sir. Sep 07 00:12:40 yeah thats true...an apple a day wont keep the webos dr away Sep 07 00:13:01 k4p741nkrunch: there is nothing a webOS doctor won't fix. Sep 07 00:13:20 It won't cure the herps Sep 07 00:13:22 haha Sep 07 00:13:36 i am trying to hook up webos dr to my 3 month old..see if i can stop the CRYING!! Sep 07 00:13:39 Well what if you went to flash the rom and unplugged the Pre from the cable halfway through Sep 07 00:13:55 you would just put it in bootloader mode. Sep 07 00:14:04 The end of the world! Y2K10 bug Sep 07 00:14:06 its happened to me actually Sep 07 00:14:07 lol Sep 07 00:14:26 Didn't you guys here smartphones will end the world. haha Sep 07 00:14:34 Cyberdyne. Sep 07 00:14:44 I almost had Ikyo unable to doctor Sep 07 00:14:52 almost. Sep 07 00:14:55 didn't happen Sep 07 00:14:59 won't ever happen :D Sep 07 00:15:18 Well there you go Daybreak, straight from the horses mouth Sep 07 00:15:22 ;) Sep 07 00:15:46 Anyone read about the Pre 16gb? Sep 07 00:15:49 yep Sep 07 00:15:52 P120 Sep 07 00:15:54 Woah there's an article? Sep 07 00:15:58 Dammit! Sep 07 00:15:59 all that will do is set him back to 9 months before, and you don't want that :D Sep 07 00:16:13 A few actually... It's also in Sprints inventory system Sep 07 00:16:21 Saw it with my own eyes!!! Sep 07 00:16:31 And I just bought this 8 gb and I'm running out of space Sep 07 00:16:44 I have plenty of space on mine, 6.4gb Sep 07 00:16:45 Yeah I saw the P120 but it wasn't confirmed a 16 GB that I knew of Sep 07 00:16:53 I have .3 gb left Sep 07 00:16:58 It was in the sprint system, 16gb Sep 07 00:17:08 My music must be terribly uncompressed Sep 07 00:17:11 Wouldn't it be sweet to have a white pre? Sep 07 00:17:14 It's all 320 kbps Sep 07 00:17:19 Hell yes Sep 07 00:17:21 k4p741nkrunch..what is taking up all your mem? Sep 07 00:17:33 I would pay extra for a white pre Sep 07 00:17:36 lol, a white pre Sep 07 00:17:38 it'd look ugly. Sep 07 00:17:44 I just have music, and not a terrible amount, maybe 50 albums Sep 07 00:17:53 huh Sep 07 00:18:06 what format is the music in? Sep 07 00:18:07 i had 5.46 gigs Sep 07 00:18:15 deleted it Sep 07 00:18:19 I believe it's mp3 Sep 07 00:18:21 useless, i have youtube, pandora. Sep 07 00:18:29 Sync with itunes Sep 07 00:18:41 But I rip them from CDs at 320kbps Sep 07 00:20:03 itunes Sep 07 00:20:05 fail Sep 07 00:20:24 What do you use? Sep 07 00:20:34 media monkey Sep 07 00:21:04 White Pre would be good Sep 07 00:21:06 I think Sep 07 00:21:11 look at the psp Sep 07 00:21:21 I'm sorry I can't use anything that sounds like one of my 6 year old sisters toys Sep 07 00:21:33 palm PRE? Sep 07 00:21:40 Media monkey Sep 07 00:21:41 sounds like a toothpaste Sep 07 00:22:04 itunes is designed to break your computer Sep 07 00:22:24 What ever happened to ripping music with a cli? :p Sep 07 00:22:34 hah Sep 07 00:22:53 or encoding, rather. Sep 07 00:23:01 I don't use abcde Sep 07 00:23:09 I use dbpoweramp to encode Sep 07 00:23:23 batch converting with a core2 qud ftw Sep 07 00:24:05 I don't buy CDs anymore though, so. I usually get them from Amazon (unless I can find them from some nefarious places) Sep 07 00:24:38 hah Sep 07 00:24:46 what is a CD? Sep 07 00:24:52 sorry I was born in 1999 Sep 07 00:24:58 LPs are the way to go. Sep 07 00:25:08 45's ftw Sep 07 00:25:14 I still have my player Sep 07 00:25:31 There's a victrola in the other room here that's older than I am. Sep 07 00:27:24 I'm kicking myself for ripping all my CDs to vorbis when I was younger. Sep 07 00:27:32 I thought for sure the pre would support it. Sep 07 00:27:41 That's what I hated about the free ipod I got. Sep 07 00:27:52 You prepared for getting a Pre when you were younger Sep 07 00:28:02 Were you younger like 3 months ago? Sep 07 00:29:03 I mean. Sep 07 00:29:18 lol Sep 07 00:29:21 flac ftw Sep 07 00:29:21 Nevermind. Sep 07 00:29:33 Sry that was totally watercooler of me Sep 07 00:29:54 Does anyone here actually HAVE 1.2? Sep 07 00:30:08 I have 1.5 Sep 07 00:30:12 I have 8.4 Sep 07 00:30:15 It's awesome Sep 07 00:30:19 Makes toast Sep 07 00:30:20 of android Sep 07 00:30:42 Man you two are like sarcasm on ADD aren't you Sep 07 00:30:43 I wonder if the android port for the pre will ever see the light of day. Sep 07 00:30:56 That would be cool. Sep 07 00:31:13 Android port = really wide image Sep 07 00:31:31 They're gonna need to work from the ground up Sep 07 00:32:26 id like to turn this pre into a complete penetration testers toolbox. maybe add 80 to 90% of the tools found on distro like backtrack 4 or oswa-assistant Sep 07 00:32:30 Plus rather than port the parts of android into an android app...why not port them over to the interface of the Pre Sep 07 00:32:41 daybreak metasploit works Sep 07 00:32:59 there is a metasploit ipk? Sep 07 00:33:32 hmm Sep 07 00:36:49 I think there is Sep 07 00:38:31 dk did make an android app Sep 07 00:41:40 android works on Pre? Sep 07 00:43:49 no Sep 07 00:44:48 what's the app then? Sep 07 00:45:27 Just presents an android interface Sep 07 00:45:33 Doesn't emulate the OS Sep 07 00:45:49 Not the whole android interface :P Sep 07 00:45:49 lmao at the history for the past half hour Sep 07 00:46:03 I said "an" not "the" :p Sep 07 00:46:18 Ahhh touchee Sep 07 00:48:54 I would love to see widgets on the Pre Sep 07 00:48:58 Non card shaped ones Sep 07 00:49:44 You have something against card shaped things? Sep 07 00:51:03 I'd like something like a weather app that just superimposed a sun, or a cloud, or a tornado on my wallpaper depending on the weather Sep 07 00:51:21 that would be cool Sep 07 00:51:24 Rofl a tornado Sep 07 00:51:45 Well... according to my Pre, there seems to be a tornado in the area Sep 07 00:51:55 lol Sep 07 00:55:19 hah Sep 07 00:55:26 I make tornados with my pre Sep 07 01:03:46 Damn, for waking up at 3 PM I'm unreasonably tired for 9 PM Sep 07 01:04:23 I'm gonna go get some coffee Sep 07 01:04:27 Peace out Sep 07 01:29:51 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.5_all.ipk ready for alpha testing. Sep 07 01:30:06 it will be a pre-requisite for the next public Preware version. Sep 07 01:31:38 looking for confirmation that it doesn't break anything in preware 0.8.2 Sep 07 01:32:11 testing now Sep 07 01:34:39 everything seems to working fine Sep 07 01:35:30 theo: thx Sep 07 01:35:43 np Sep 07 01:36:55 theo: that one has the enabler for 10x speed improvement in loading time. next version of Preware has the awesomely fast code that uses that enabler. Sep 07 01:37:18 ooohhhhh, cant wait for that Sep 07 01:37:25 oil has outdone himself yet again on this one .... Sep 07 01:38:54 10x improvement is a lot .. where was the optimization ? Sep 07 01:39:23 it was letting javascript parse the package files Sep 07 01:39:26 instead of ipkg Sep 07 01:39:38 ah interesting Sep 07 01:39:47 I wonder what the legality of me releasing something written to link to lunaservices using the assumption that everything I'm using is already "figured out" in existing homebrew native services Sep 07 01:39:59 lol Sep 07 01:40:38 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.preware_0.8.4_all.ipk ready for alpha testing. depends on ipkgservice 0.8.5 Sep 07 01:41:01 i'd think as long as everything is figured out, i am not sure you'd have an issue Sep 07 01:41:17 chrisa, what have you written ? Sep 07 01:41:18 chrisa: any service in particular you're thinking about? Sep 07 01:41:32 Mum's the word until I figure out the legality Sep 07 01:41:49 gotcha Sep 07 01:43:35 hopefully it will be in the clear Sep 07 01:43:50 Poor treo pro, nobody loved it Sep 07 01:43:53 Still $199 on sprint Sep 07 01:44:00 rwhitby: now that we have a "feed" IPK, maybe make an IPK for the test IPK, that would allow more users to test easier Sep 07 01:46:23 Hello I was looking to submit a Hold the Button game to Preware the webos-internals wiki said to ask a "rwitby". Sep 07 01:47:16 Hold the Button? Sep 07 01:47:31 chrisa, definitely an overlooked device .. but when webOS is the new hotness .. maybe you should port it on over :) Sep 07 01:47:48 That sounds like a good way to lose buckets of money Sep 07 01:48:00 testing 8.4 now Sep 07 01:48:09 oohh, i like the loading page Sep 07 01:48:23 hella fast Sep 07 01:48:24 NobisDev: just submit it to any feed that Preware supports. PreCentral, PreYourMind, etc ... Sep 07 01:49:06 Okay thank you! Sep 07 01:49:09 rwhitby: this is very nice Sep 07 01:49:11 NobisDev: is it open source? Sep 07 01:49:19 theo: oil did all the hard work Sep 07 01:49:27 I'll gladly put the source code up on my website Sep 07 01:49:28 chrisa, why would it lose buckets of money ? Sep 07 01:49:47 well then oil: this is great, so much faster Sep 07 01:49:53 It would be a lot of work in engineering hours and gain nothing for us Sep 07 01:50:01 So we'd just be setting money aflame Sep 07 01:50:07 oh, in that sense Sep 07 01:50:18 Has anyone happened to look at this file? /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.contacts/app/models/contacts_list.js Sep 07 01:50:19 I don't want to imagine trying to get the os working well with a resistive screen Sep 07 01:50:24 probably not high on the priority list Sep 07 01:50:32 i forgot it was a resistive screen device :( Sep 07 01:50:32 I hope that's all garbage test data Sep 07 01:50:44 capacitive screens just seem so much nicer Sep 07 01:50:54 lmorchard: what about it Sep 07 01:50:56 resistive are good for precision Sep 07 01:51:05 But these days what needs precision in a handheld? Sep 07 01:51:31 my experience with resistive has been terrible .. we had issues putting it in our cases without pinching the outside corners Sep 07 01:51:36 theo: It's full of names, addresses, phone numbers, and email addresses that seem to be from Palm employees Sep 07 01:51:40 lol oh is see now Sep 07 01:51:46 wasn't easy to calibrate and didn't work well at all Sep 07 01:51:47 the email addresses look munged, but the rest looks relatively real Sep 07 01:52:50 yeah i hope not, someone might get into a little bit of trouble for it not being removed Sep 07 01:52:53 I wish I had an email address lik e@pookmail.com Sep 07 01:53:12 lol Sep 07 01:54:41 who knew pookmail was an actual project: http://code.google.com/p/pookmail/ Sep 07 01:56:59 puff was talking about c services earlier.. did we get enough of the header files figured out to be able to do that ? Sep 07 01:59:23 Do what? Sep 07 02:01:15 i thought we were missing the header files for luna services in C .. which is why we stuck with java Sep 07 02:01:59 so to build services written in C that would connect on up to luna ... i suppose similar to libpurpleadapter Sep 07 02:03:16 rhitby: tested 0.8.5, looks good, i see you must've added the Type: Feed to the apps... Sep 07 02:03:39 also, i'm seeing in "List Everything" "OLDER" is before today! Sep 07 02:03:47 is that a bug or a feature? Sep 07 02:04:17 bpadalino: checkout the battery service! Sep 07 02:04:22 Well, not "now" is technically older Sep 07 02:04:42 battery service! i don't see that in the webos-internals.com git repo ? Sep 07 02:04:49 batteryservice is in C Sep 07 02:04:56 link please ? Sep 07 02:05:03 preyourmind Sep 07 02:05:08 ah Sep 07 02:05:12 http://git.preyourmind.org/ Sep 07 02:05:15 i'm so behind the times Sep 07 02:06:27 slick Sep 07 02:06:30 chrisa: it has older, today, yesterday, this week, last week, this month, last month Sep 07 02:07:09 who is ryan hope ? does he go to RIT ? Sep 07 02:07:25 followed by unknown, ... the question is why is OLDER at the begining (not before unknown) Sep 07 02:09:22 Hey guys Sep 07 02:10:12 Has anyone had issues with their Pre constantly shutting down? since i used the webos doctor at 230, my phone has shut itself off literally 8 times Sep 07 02:11:13 that sounds pretty bad :( Sep 07 02:11:49 oh, puff = ryan hope .. gotcha Sep 07 02:12:07 Yeah, i really don't know what it is. It can't be some app or something doing it, because i restored it. & i haven't been using it when it happens. I'll take it out of my pocket & it's off Sep 07 02:13:30 ok, the PreCentral full feed is now live, with multiple screenshots for apps. Check out the drPodder app under Multimedia category for an example. Sep 07 02:13:46 Big props to Dieter for updating the open feed. Sep 07 02:14:44 it look good guys Sep 07 02:15:29 Installing 0.8.4 now. Sep 07 02:18:10 oh *wow* Sep 07 02:19:26 * freakout is loving the speed. Sep 07 02:19:37 * freakout hands rwhitby and oil medals Sep 07 02:19:48 Nobel Peace Prizes, if you were wondering. Sep 07 02:20:31 * rwhitby did about 20 lines of code in the service, and oil did all the rest in the app. Sep 07 02:20:45 together we got > 10x speed improvement. Sep 07 02:20:47 Did anybody watch the live palmcast? Sep 07 02:20:54 Yep. Sep 07 02:20:57 yep Sep 07 02:21:00 Did you see the app? Sep 07 02:21:05 missed it Sep 07 02:21:05 Yep. Looks lovely! Sep 07 02:21:08 oh, missed that bit. Sep 07 02:21:15 The screenshot? Sep 07 02:21:18 You missed it? Sep 07 02:21:21 might have to now Sep 07 02:21:21 yep Sep 07 02:21:27 arg Sep 07 02:21:31 hahaha Sep 07 02:21:39 kesne, you'll have to get them to plug you again next week :P Sep 07 02:21:40 That was the best part! Sep 07 02:21:40 was busy adding the version method to ipkgservice right at that moment. Sep 07 02:21:55 lol Sep 07 02:22:37 We're all waiting for our betas, kesne. :P Sep 07 02:22:48 * freakout looks expectant Sep 07 02:23:19 kesne: is it true that your waiting on dieter to move forward in the app? Sep 07 02:23:22 did he say that Sep 07 02:23:28 or am I making that up Sep 07 02:24:35 Hmm, have people run these custom services in the emulator successfully? Sep 07 02:24:48 I should look at how the w1 bus is emulated Sep 07 02:25:19 chrisa: all the org.webosinternals.* stuff works equally well on emulator and pre Sep 07 02:25:28 mainly cause I can't get a Pre yet ;-) Sep 07 02:25:36 i think the battery always shows as charging Sep 07 02:26:00 I do know that PuffTheMagic hasn't done an i686 version of the battery service cause he thinks it's a waste of time. I don't agree. Sep 07 02:26:09 I know powerd can handle fake batteries, that may be all that is needed Sep 07 02:26:22 I haven't worked on that code in a while Sep 07 02:28:29 chrisa: if only powerd was open source we could just borrow the code ;-) Sep 07 02:28:36 haha Sep 07 02:28:39 rhitby: gonna change the sort functions to use a - b instead of multi comapres... Sep 07 02:29:02 Zuchmir2: please coordinate with oil for changes to the Preware app code. Sep 07 02:29:03 powerd is not something you want to be messing with Sep 07 02:29:06 There be dragons there Sep 07 02:29:13 yeah, I can imagine. Sep 07 02:29:33 ok Sep 07 02:29:39 oil: ping Sep 07 02:29:41 controlling all the vregs on the omap would be quite complex I expect. Sep 07 02:30:14 Zuchmir2: best thing would be to work on a branch, then push that branch so that oil can cherry pick from it. Sep 07 02:30:18 I'd have to check, but I doubt powerd touches vregs. It's a userspace service Sep 07 02:30:24 just wanted to pop my head in. i finally got a solid environment that is compiling gst plugins properly. i may have alternate filetype support very soon. Sep 07 02:30:26 That's abstracted out to the kernel / modem Sep 07 02:30:40 zsoc: kudos dude! Sep 07 02:30:47 Allowing userspace to directly modify chipset regulators and such is a scary proposition Sep 07 02:30:49 chrisa: ah, right. of course. Sep 07 02:31:11 I keep forgetting that Palm has done things properly ;-) Sep 07 02:31:34 freakout thanks :) first step towards my goal. Sep 07 02:32:01 so, anyone found the known bug in preware 0.8.4 alpha yet? Sep 07 02:32:04 Xvid? xD Sep 07 02:32:10 how do i create a branch? Sep 07 02:32:23 rwhitby: It goes so fast, it takes you back to Hill Valley 1955? Sep 07 02:32:32 88mph?! Sep 07 02:32:33 rhitby: i have OLDER comming before TODAY! Sep 07 02:32:41 What the hell is a gigawatt? Sep 07 02:32:46 dunno if that's new or an old bug Sep 07 02:32:55 new preware is fast? new package service? Sep 07 02:32:58 lmorchard: don't you mean "jiggerwatt" :P Sep 07 02:33:03 the older before today is the only one if seen so far Sep 07 02:33:45 freakout: Yes. Sep 07 02:33:48 hehe Sep 07 02:34:24 rwhitby: ws there something else Sep 07 02:34:45 theo: how do I reproduce the bug you are seeing? Sep 07 02:35:05 I can't get it either. date listing works fine here Sep 07 02:35:15 go into list of everything Sep 07 02:35:27 theo: clicking on Internalz or FileMgr hangs Preware (and the emulator for me). Sep 07 02:35:42 list of everything sorted by date looks fine here. Sep 07 02:35:50 does anyone know if Web in webOS 1.2 supports bookmarklets? Sep 07 02:36:21 rwhitby: i have Mine Searcher installed, and it's showing up in OLDER, and it's before TODAY Sep 07 02:36:40 rwhitby: Yes, same here. is that preware or canuck-software? Sep 07 02:36:54 rwhitby: figured out that it only does that if you change the setting for default sort to "last updated" Sep 07 02:37:05 freakout: we believe it's cause it's in two feeds Sep 07 02:37:43 what's in 2 feeds? Sep 07 02:37:54 Internalz and FileMgr Sep 07 02:38:03 canuck-software and precentral Sep 07 02:38:16 rwhitby: have you tried to reporduce that Sep 07 02:38:22 preware should handle it fine, but there seems to be a bug. Sep 07 02:38:27 theo: I cannot reproduce. Sep 07 02:38:27 *reproduce Sep 07 02:39:14 thats odd, after changing it back a couple of times, it is correct????? Sep 07 02:39:19 bug fixed Sep 07 02:39:30 sorry for the delay Sep 07 02:39:53 max_: not really at all Sep 07 02:45:38 Zuchmir2: feel free to change the sort functions Sep 07 02:45:56 * oil does what works, usually doesn't have any idea if its best Sep 07 02:46:04 ok, testing now Sep 07 02:47:08 Zuchmir2: if you're working on version sorting, be aware the ipkg versions we want to support can be (N:)?N(.N)*(-N)? Sep 07 02:47:35 that's why optimizing speeds things up Sep 07 02:48:13 the time i got sorting properly, but the alpha i just broke :-( Sep 07 02:49:14 Zuchmir2: will your new code be able to support the format above? Sep 07 02:49:33 (the first N: is an "epoch" which overrides/resets all following stuff) Sep 07 02:49:48 versions aren't really ever "sorted" Sep 07 02:49:53 they're compared one to the other Sep 07 02:50:30 you need to determine if one is "newer" than another for Package Updates though Sep 07 02:50:43 right Sep 07 02:50:50 cool Sep 07 02:51:25 ipkgservice 0.8.5 pushed to public feeds Sep 07 02:51:38 with apiVersion == 2 Sep 07 02:52:27 currently, the if (this.currentSort == 'date') sort() is only comparing a.date vs. b.date Sep 07 02:53:29 and? Sep 07 02:55:15 * rwhitby is not fussed about the ordering of two apps released at exactly the same second ;-) Sep 07 02:55:22 so it's not dealing w/version Sep 07 02:55:38 ok? Sep 07 02:55:41 * oil isnt sure what the problem is Sep 07 02:55:45 its sorting by date Sep 07 02:55:51 so it compares the dates? Sep 07 02:56:02 what does version have to do with date? Sep 07 02:56:06 yeah, rwitby mentioned sorting by version number Sep 07 02:56:22 there is no version sort Sep 07 02:56:53 that's what i was saying **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 07 02:59:57 2009