**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 08 02:59:57 2009 Sep 08 03:09:33 has anyone successfully installed samba and written to /media/internal over the network? Sep 08 03:09:59 i am having a couple of hiccups following the wiki and need some help Sep 08 03:14:46 sorry the_snowdog that's pretty far out for most of us Sep 08 03:15:42 well in that case, anybody familiar with upstart scripts? Sep 08 03:16:46 aka, why an upstart script is failing to run? i've checked the syntax multiple times and it is similar to other scripts that are being run... Sep 08 03:19:35 * oil just write mojo Sep 08 03:24:19 write keyboard config and theme installer app Sep 08 03:24:23 :D Sep 08 03:26:36 which will all require a service, no? Sep 08 03:27:12 are the configs in /media/internal? Sep 08 03:27:17 yep Sep 08 03:28:15 i could talk to jason about using the filemanager service Sep 08 03:28:55 anyone here know pulseaudio at all? Sep 08 03:29:03 That's going to need a service? :( Sep 08 03:29:06 a little, destinal Sep 08 03:29:13 Mojo doesn't have any file management stuff huh Sep 08 03:29:18 epv: so I'm working on getting sound in the emulator working Sep 08 03:29:24 cool Sep 08 03:29:27 I've gotten it so paplay /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav makes sound Sep 08 03:29:40 but paplay -d pringtones /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav is silent Sep 08 03:29:55 mojo can't read a simple text file Sep 08 03:30:05 and I need the proper sinks to be working if luna is to make sound Sep 08 03:30:15 no local storage at all except sqlite and cookies Sep 08 03:30:17 it shows up in pactl as a sync Sep 08 03:30:19 mojo can read an array of json's file Sep 08 03:30:25 can read text Sep 08 03:30:35 oil: I reckon Jason would be up for that collaboration. Sep 08 03:30:54 (the service of his is closed source, but he's willing to work with others at the API level) Sep 08 03:31:05 yeah Sep 08 03:31:05 palmGetResource() = read text file Sep 08 03:31:47 huh i wonder if it's a dummy sink in the emulator Sep 08 03:31:57 can it write? Sep 08 03:32:28 ok now you are asking for too much Sep 08 03:33:10 what good is a theme manager or config editor if it can't save anything Sep 08 03:34:24 well they can just use DB Sep 08 03:34:38 but getting theme into /media/internal/ I guess needs a service Sep 08 03:34:43 epv: in /etc/pulse/system.pa load-module module-null-sink sink_name=pringtones Sep 08 03:35:07 the pre has the same thing Sep 08 03:35:34 themes are images and a config file? Sep 08 03:35:37 i was thinking maybe change it to whatever the default sink is, just to see Sep 08 03:35:52 epv: if I try playing over the default sink, it works Sep 08 03:35:58 the pre probably has some luna thing that redirects streams from the null sinks to something else? Sep 08 03:36:12 oil, yea Sep 08 03:36:27 i don't have a working emulator because i don't have a 32 bit box to put it on right now Sep 08 03:37:01 id have to be in com.palm.blarg to do file downloads to /media/internals Sep 08 03:37:06 (i havent looked at that much myself) Sep 08 03:37:13 paplay -d pcm_output /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav or paplay /usr/palm/sounds/phone.wav works Sep 08 03:37:33 and using the filemanager service it could read/write the config files Sep 08 03:37:35 epv: emulator works on 64 bit operating systems Sep 08 03:37:43 it does now? huh cool Sep 08 03:37:47 epv: always did Sep 08 03:37:51 epv: what's your issue? Sep 08 03:37:51 really? Sep 08 03:37:52 I don't know if I want to use a closed-source service Sep 08 03:38:00 lol Sep 08 03:38:28 for some reason i thought it didn't work on 64 bit linux when it first came out Sep 08 03:38:46 egaudet: have another suggestion? Sep 08 03:38:53 if it's a quick read/write, why not just create a new service? Sep 08 03:38:58 We could package themes as ipkg Sep 08 03:39:08 granted it's prolly easier just using palm's builtin ish Sep 08 03:39:10 thats not a config editor though xD Sep 08 03:39:28 Config editor will be simple as database modifications Sep 08 03:39:36 And if we need more support we can write our own service Sep 08 03:39:40 epv: people didn't know how to install novacom at first on 64 bit but --force-architecture and ia32-libs fixes it Sep 08 03:39:53 oh heh :) Sep 08 03:40:02 that's what i get for listening to the crap on precentral threads Sep 08 03:40:11 lolol Sep 08 03:42:52 epv: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Installing_novaterm_on_ubuntu_64-bit (it's not limited to ubuntu though) Sep 08 03:44:01 thanks Sep 08 03:44:03 nice thing about amd64, it just runs ia32 code Sep 08 03:44:05 egaudet: I suggest themes as ipkgs, and then a db to manage them. Sep 08 03:44:06 sure Sep 08 03:44:19 rwhitby, it is one way but I don't like it Sep 08 03:44:24 i didn't have any trouble with novacom, though Sep 08 03:44:43 and vbox is vbox Sep 08 03:44:53 egaudet: which bit don't you like? Sep 08 03:45:02 the emulator image is just your average x86 linux vm Sep 08 03:45:25 I feel there will be a lot of theme creators that struggle with turning it into an ipkg, and it will be harder for users to manage their installed themes Sep 08 03:45:48 sure you need the sun java jre for the palm-emulator command to work and talk to vbox, but that's universal also Sep 08 03:46:48 epv: so how can I figure out how these null sinks are routed? Sep 08 03:47:02 i was just trying to figure that out. Sep 08 03:47:29 egaudet: talk to AnOutsider about adding keyboard theme ipkg creationg functionality to his site. Sep 08 03:47:51 egaudet: http://www.prethemer.com/ Sep 08 03:48:31 (when it's done) you just upload images and it creates the ipkg, including postinst and prerm scripts. Sep 08 03:49:27 Hmmm Sep 08 03:49:28 then we create a Keyboard Themes category in Preware and people just use Preware to install and uninstall the themes that the configure app can choose between. Sep 08 03:49:42 just an idea ... Sep 08 03:50:18 can we easily modify database from postinst script Sep 08 03:50:47 there is a remap-sink module, which mihgt be useful Sep 08 03:50:50 http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/Modules#module-remap-sink Sep 08 03:51:59 egaudet: dunno. Sep 08 03:52:21 egaudet: you should be able to run sqlite3 command line from postinst Sep 08 03:53:30 I guess the postinst/prerm then could add/remove available themes in the db Sep 08 03:53:43 epv: it's got to be possible without compiling new modules, doesn't it? Sep 08 03:54:38 egaudet: so the last one installed is activated by default, and you can change the config using the app if you want. Sep 08 03:55:08 aw, crappy, it's not built :( Sep 08 03:55:21 egaudet: you could even package up the app with the patch, like we do for ipkgservice and the secure informed user consent stuff Sep 08 03:55:41 * rwhitby bbl Sep 08 03:55:48 That's what I was thinking, since the patch isn't an app itself Sep 08 03:58:33 the problem with including hte patch with the app Sep 08 03:58:44 would be someone orange-tap-remove the app Sep 08 03:58:54 that would list it as not-installed, right? Sep 08 03:59:00 no prerem for the ipk Sep 08 03:59:58 in alsa config # create nullvirtual devices, alsa clients attched here will be re-routed according to policy by the pulseaudio plug-in module-route-streams Sep 08 04:00:47 but it looks like they don't use module-route-streams, but rather module-palm-policy.so Sep 08 04:00:57 that's unfortunate. Sep 08 04:04:19 oh btw webos 1.1 and 1.2 seem to have the same kernel Sep 08 04:04:38 the 1.2 wifi module loads in 1.1 (and has Adhoc mode disabled) Sep 08 04:04:47 so i suppose the 1.1 one will load in 1.2, also Sep 08 04:05:14 epv: ah, good to know Sep 08 04:05:23 epv: so they went out of their way to disable that? wow Sep 08 04:05:35 and it is indeed the sd8xxx.ko module that disallows adhoc mode Sep 08 04:05:46 yeah. no change in the wifi tools or anything else Sep 08 04:06:04 just a huge reminder for everyone to snag a doctor image now while you can :) Sep 08 04:06:06 destinal: see my message? Sep 08 04:06:08 heh yeah Sep 08 04:06:23 of course it won't help when a new kernel comes out, though i guess we can build our own Sep 08 04:06:54 well, eventually we need to get an open source driver going for that chipset, I've heard there are some in new kernels Sep 08 04:07:10 has anyone looked into whether there's open source support for the device? i don't care about adhoc mode but packet injection and monitor mode would kick ass Sep 08 04:07:43 ameng: yeah, got it. I'll look at what you sent here in a sec Sep 08 04:08:17 i sent that last weekend Sep 08 04:08:27 ameng -- how close are you to having something you can show the rest of us? We've been seeing you chatting with destinal and we're excited. Sep 08 04:08:51 very soon i think Sep 08 04:09:18 will hook the project to webos-internals.org Sep 08 04:09:53 really looking forward to it. Sep 08 04:10:31 not that I can USE it you understand, but it's exciting that we will have a platform to build binary stuff onto. Sep 08 04:12:02 ameng I'm not a person who even tries to program down in the depths of the os where you are operating, but do I understand correctly that what you're doing is providing a sort of an interface to a standard graphics library which can then render in webOS at binary speed? Sep 08 04:12:30 it's nice they at least used wireless-extensions isntead of some wack proprietary interface Sep 08 04:12:33 now it runs in the way that it can run dfb program with out modification in a seperate process. the graphics part runs well with luna. i now work on input driver Sep 08 04:13:00 oh wow, that's pretty neat Sep 08 04:13:18 so now you're trying to take screen touches and pass them to dfb programs as mouse movements???? Sep 08 04:13:29 yeah Sep 08 04:13:34 gosh Sep 08 04:13:51 i actually wrote a drive . now testing it Sep 08 04:14:00 driver Sep 08 04:14:15 Rick_home: see? ameng is doing cool stuff :) Sep 08 04:14:46 If he's that close to having input TOO instead of using the complex pass-through techniques that classic used, I'm amazed. Sep 08 04:15:13 my first goal is run dfbterm, next will run gtk program Sep 08 04:15:16 oh there's a marvell 8686 driver in 2.6.28 it looks like Sep 08 04:15:46 if you can run a gtk program that opens up a world of stuff. Sep 08 04:16:14 x windows. heh Sep 08 04:16:38 sure theoretically it can, cause gtk can be based on directfb Sep 08 04:16:59 this is why i ported dfb to luna Sep 08 04:19:51 oil, wouldn't that be an issue whether the app is with the patch or not? Sep 08 04:20:26 egaudet: but the patch doesn't have an icon that can be orange-taped, right? Sep 08 04:20:39 i mean, i dont even know if its a problem Sep 08 04:20:46 that was just me thinking out loud Sep 08 04:20:54 oh right Sep 08 04:21:49 eboard. pychess. both are straight gtk apps. Sep 08 04:22:41 I've been beating my head trying to port the one-and-only javascript FICS client to mojo. The thing is so Internet Exploder specific I think my head is turning to mush. If we could just run eboard of pychess, then we're DONE. that would be nice. Sep 08 04:23:16 If it gets orange-tap deleted, that means the app directory gets removed from /var/..? So preware will see it as uninstalled? Sep 08 04:23:39 epv wouldn't x be kinda heavy for this processor? Even with a -very- light screen manager ? Sep 08 04:23:47 I mean that would be cool and all, but uh Sep 08 04:24:01 sure, but it's still fun :) Sep 08 04:24:21 I have _got_ to get a cross-compiling tool chain set up Sep 08 04:24:23 :-( Sep 08 04:24:42 Rick_home: or just start compiling on your pre :) Sep 08 04:24:45 actually the dfb x serve rprobably isn't too bad. you could run windowless things or whatever, i guess Sep 08 04:24:49 egaudet: thats what im thinking Sep 08 04:25:46 Rick_home: or start with building stuff for your emulator to experiment with Sep 08 04:25:51 I'll check it out, but if that's the case then definitely can't put them together Sep 08 04:25:57 since that's just standard gcc on ubuntu or whatever Sep 08 04:26:36 destinal: ameng is the dfb going to work on the emulator TOO !?!?!?!?! Sep 08 04:26:39 egaudet: if i install a normal app from preware, then orange-tap it, it shows in preware as uninstalled Sep 08 04:26:55 Rick_home: of course, the emulator is where it's being developed for ease :) Sep 08 04:27:06 good god Sep 08 04:27:38 oil, do you know if prerm gets run? Sep 08 04:27:49 i dont Sep 08 04:27:52 but i would doubt it Sep 08 04:29:21 ameng I'll leave you alone so you can go back to flipping bits. But several of us are very anxious to see what you've got. Sep 08 04:29:29 yea you are probably right, I don't think any of the palm apps have the postinst/prerm scripts. So forget that, keyboard can never have a visible icon Sep 08 04:29:40 If you would be willing to release a demo WITHOUT input, I would be excited to see it ./ Sep 08 04:30:21 * oil is with rick Sep 08 04:31:11 ameng I know some people are reluctant to have the world look over their shoulder... but if you would consider a pre-alpha peek, a bunch of us would be greatful :-) Sep 08 04:31:36 ~seen mrvc Sep 08 04:31:37 mrvc was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 22d 1h 20m 55s ago, saying: 'Zuchmir2: hmm... don't know'. Sep 08 04:31:56 lol Sep 08 04:32:02 long time Sep 08 04:32:05 des, that's kinda sad. Sep 08 04:32:23 wonder what happened. He worked so hard on the early releases of terminal. Sep 08 04:32:56 is that the guy who gave me shit for asking how many commits back something stopped working? Sep 08 04:32:57 heh Sep 08 04:33:26 Rick_home: basically terminal wouldn't exist in its current form without mrvc Sep 08 04:33:54 so yeah, I hope he's doing ok and comes back sometime Sep 08 04:34:24 anyone know what "period" is for in the com.palm.vibrate service request? Sep 08 04:34:44 epv: ah, yeah, I still think when you pointed that out that we had a huge performance regression and worked around it by compiler optimizations Sep 08 04:35:14 if you say for it to vibrate for x ms, period is how frequently it should do that buzz for 250 ms every 2000 ms Sep 08 04:35:19 but I don't think it works.... Sep 08 04:35:27 epv: I think it still needs looked into but at this point I wonder if directfb term will give terminal a run for its money soon Sep 08 04:35:34 oh that was a different thing, thouhg.. the thing i was asking about was something totally trivial like i think rotation no longer causing SIGWINCH Sep 08 04:35:52 Rick_home: that's what i thought, but with testing, it appears to not work like that :0 Sep 08 04:36:11 dest: possibly, but it'd still call for a bunch of work like coping with the pre's keyboard, etc Sep 08 04:36:23 true Sep 08 04:36:25 if only it did work, that would be nice Sep 08 04:37:10 HattCzech: that's what I said, it doesn't work. Sep 08 04:37:25 yeah, sorry, i was just confirming that Sep 08 04:38:00 if i have this.var1 and this.var2 ... is there a way i can access them using an i=1 or i=2 ? like this.var(i) (or something similar)? Sep 08 04:38:20 HattCzech: no Sep 08 04:38:26 well Sep 08 04:38:28 that's not true Sep 08 04:38:35 but again, the solution is evil Sep 08 04:38:38 haha Sep 08 04:38:39 why not use an array? Sep 08 04:38:39 ahhh Sep 08 04:38:54 because i've got it setup like an object, and the names vary Sep 08 04:38:59 this.var[1] this.var[2] Sep 08 04:39:00 etc Sep 08 04:39:16 note that in javascript arrays do not have to be declared and arrays may be sparse Sep 08 04:39:40 so you can create this.var[24] and this.var[176] and have those be the only two and it's ok Sep 08 04:40:02 well, i'm trying to make it work with preferences, and i may switch it... Sep 08 04:40:22 but currently, it's settings.enabled = true, settings.something = test Sep 08 04:40:36 and i want to be able to access those based on a parameter name Sep 08 04:40:42 but if you really REALLY want to do what you said (ick ick shudder shudder shudder) You could eval("this.var" + "x") where x is 1 or 2 or whatever Sep 08 04:40:54 AAGHJHGW Sep 08 04:41:04 i looked at eval, but that seems to work mostly with numbers Sep 08 04:41:04 right destinal Sep 08 04:41:14 oh no HattCzech eval works with anything Sep 08 04:41:17 but please Sep 08 04:41:24 don't go there. Don't go to the dark side. Sep 08 04:41:27 hahah, sounds like i should avoid it Sep 08 04:41:28 eval is evil Sep 08 04:41:32 lol okay Sep 08 04:42:01 uh Sep 08 04:42:27 HattCzech: you have settings.enabled = true and settings.frog = green and settings.dog = bark Sep 08 04:42:41 yeah Sep 08 04:42:49 and why do you have dog or frog and not settings.dog or settings.frog ? Sep 08 04:42:52 this['var2'] ? Sep 08 04:42:58 or am i not seeing what you want to do? Sep 08 04:43:04 drax that's perfectly valid. Sep 08 04:43:07 egaudet: yeah, orange tap means no visible app for any advanced homebrew Sep 08 04:43:10 this['var'+x] Sep 08 04:43:22 uhhhhhh Sep 08 04:43:32 uhhhhhhh Sep 08 04:43:33 rwhitby: orange tap means no visible app? Sep 08 04:43:51 yeah Sep 08 04:43:52 * destinal fails to parse Sep 08 04:43:56 if you have var1 and var2 Sep 08 04:44:06 drax, I don't think that works. Sep 08 04:44:06 you can do like this['var'+x] where x is 1 or 2 Sep 08 04:44:11 it does Sep 08 04:44:13 Rick_home: i would have settings.dog and settings.frog and settings.enabled... i think i'm missing what you're asking Sep 08 04:44:20 really? Wow. Sep 08 04:44:21 destinal: if an app that has a visible icon and postinst/prerem scripts Sep 08 04:44:30 it can be orange-tap removed from the launcher Sep 08 04:44:30 oh oh Sep 08 04:44:32 without running prerem Sep 08 04:44:50 http://fbdc06f6671404c8.paste.se/ Sep 08 04:44:59 drax if I have done this.var1 = "123" Sep 08 04:45:01 subscript and dot notation are both valid for object access in javascript Sep 08 04:45:16 see the paste for an example using spidermonkey Sep 08 04:45:21 wow Sep 08 04:45:27 also Sep 08 04:45:27 well, learn something new every day Sep 08 04:45:35 a[1] == a['1'] Sep 08 04:45:39 thanks. That may come in handy. Sep 08 04:45:43 a[1] is just sugar Sep 08 04:45:44 yes, I knew that. Sep 08 04:45:45 DraX: that's awesome... and exactly what i needed Sep 08 04:45:56 HattCzech: :) Sep 08 04:46:12 is that still considered the "dark side"? :) Sep 08 04:46:17 not at all Sep 08 04:46:28 *taps fingers* excellent... Sep 08 04:46:33 DraX: but a['frog'] works fine? Sep 08 04:46:37 Rick_home: yes Sep 08 04:46:49 and it is an OBJECT same as a.frog not an array element? Sep 08 04:46:50 Rick_home: well it'd return undefned in the context i gave in the paste ;) Sep 08 04:46:58 right Sep 08 04:47:02 you can also do Sep 08 04:47:05 a['length'] Sep 08 04:47:12 where a instanceof array Sep 08 04:47:22 well well well.... Sep 08 04:47:31 another way javascript is cool Sep 08 04:47:33 yay Sep 08 04:47:38 destinal: the ability for a user to orange tap an app, and have it removed without running a prerm script, means that any service, plugin, patch etc which needs a prerm script cannot have a visible app bundled in the same ipkg. Sep 08 04:47:41 somehow, in all the years I've written JS I never knew that. Sep 08 04:47:43 i really like it, it takes some getting used to though Sep 08 04:47:49 no kidding. Sep 08 04:48:06 in python i have to have special reflection functions to do the same thing Sep 08 04:48:08 so a.length() is the same as a['length'] Sep 08 04:48:10 (or cheat and use __dict__) Sep 08 04:48:11 weird. Sep 08 04:48:12 rwhitby: well we should be doing them with dependencies anyway Sep 08 04:48:21 Rick_home: a.length() is the same as a['length']() Sep 08 04:48:28 Rick_home: a.length is the same as a['length'] Sep 08 04:48:37 ahhhhhhhh Sep 08 04:48:39 destinal: right Sep 08 04:49:00 the former returning the length of the array and the latter returning some weird value stored in that object. Sep 08 04:49:15 no Sep 08 04:49:18 no? Sep 08 04:49:20 they'd both return the length Sep 08 04:49:35 js> var b = [1,2,3] Sep 08 04:49:35 js> b.length Sep 08 04:49:35 3 Sep 08 04:49:35 js> b['length'] Sep 08 04:49:38 3 Sep 08 04:49:40 we avoided that whole problem with terminal / termplugin for instance by just separating it into two packages, though I think we did that for another reason altogether (the architecture thing) Sep 08 04:49:42 Sep 08 04:49:43 so, from a programmers perspective they're the same , which is what I said. Sep 08 04:49:53 they are exactly the same Sep 08 04:49:55 no difference at all Sep 08 04:50:04 I'm reviewing the accessing linux page and in the procedure it appears to have some points that are obsolete or more complicated then thay have to be........ Sep 08 04:50:06 they both internally call [[Get]] Sep 08 04:50:25 according to 262 at least Sep 08 04:50:38 StoneRyno: like what? and can you fix it? Sep 08 04:51:00 weird... i just tried it with the () and it didn't work (for the length) Sep 08 04:51:02 I'm working on it just want to consult on the changes before doing so Sep 08 04:51:17 length is not a function Sep 08 04:51:23 those you can't do [[Call]] on it Sep 08 04:51:25 thus Sep 08 04:51:42 right Sep 08 04:51:44 i did it on a string Sep 08 04:51:53 length is a property. of an array. Sep 08 04:52:06 this segment isn't needed: If you are using 32 bit Windows XP or Vista there is a novaterm program at the following address: [http://tkgeisel.com/stuff/novaterm-1.zip novaterm1.zip] Download it and unzip it into the sdk/bin directory. Then, just like the Mac and Linux users you can just type '''novaterm'''. Sep 08 04:52:17 test = "user"; test["length"] worked Sep 08 04:52:20 i mean, toString is a property too, just one that happens to be a function. :) Sep 08 04:52:31 StoneRyno: you're suggesting that they just use novacom ? Sep 08 04:52:43 or has novaterm gotten into the latest windows sdk? Sep 08 04:52:44 StoneRyno: novaterm > novacom open Sep 08 04:53:10 novaterm is MUCH NICER than using novacom -t /open:tty Sep 08 04:53:25 * Rick_home probebly mis-typed that Sep 08 04:53:27 hey, its StoneRyno, the guy who thinks there should only be 1 installer Sep 08 04:53:30 xD Sep 08 04:53:32 I am using 32bit XP and can simply type novacom -t open tty:// to get to root castle Sep 08 04:53:43 yes StoneRyno true Sep 08 04:53:45 very true Sep 08 04:53:48 StoneRyno: yes, but try using vi .. ;) Sep 08 04:53:56 but novaterm has advantages over novacom Sep 08 04:54:18 you CAN just use it, but if you download novaterm yuou get a full blown terminal for future use. Sep 08 04:54:24 ok I'm just trying to help clear things up a bit since there have been several threads started about how confusing the procedure is Sep 08 04:54:27 even copy and paste people have trouble with in cmd novacom Sep 08 04:54:48 StoneRyno: it's confusing to download and run a program? Sep 08 04:54:59 we would dump novacom altogether and go with novaterm 100% if it worked on 64 bit windows, but it doesn't Sep 08 04:55:07 so I was trying to see what I could do to make it more clear or easier to follow Sep 08 04:55:07 I have source, but no one has come forward to work on it. Sep 08 04:55:46 which is why I wanted to consult before making any major changes Sep 08 04:56:27 StoneRyno: would you be willing to simply put that paragraph into a "sidebar box" indented in a different color perhaps, and tag it with "for advanced users" or are you suggesting a LINK to that paragraph somewhere. ??? Sep 08 04:56:52 typography can cover many sins Sep 08 04:58:46 ok so novaterm is an alternative to putty? where as novacom is just for simple stuff to get you to using either of those? Sep 08 04:59:33 oil: ok, I think I've got an atomic way to restart LunaSysMgr. Sep 08 04:59:56 * oil is about to submit dotgame to palm Sep 08 05:00:22 oil: "killall -HUP LunaSysMgr" Sep 08 05:04:26 I think basically those who have gotten confused didn't know what to do with certain parts of the instructions Sep 08 05:05:08 StoneRyno: novaterm is *like* putty but over novacom's protocol to the novacom daemon Sep 08 05:05:12 oil, going to charge? Sep 08 05:05:35 I'd pay $1 Sep 08 05:05:37 I'm adding a bullet point about palm-install since it is used for installing package files and most likely will only be used if you are testing your own app or one for someone who gave you a package file right? Sep 08 05:06:00 oil: still working on restartjavaserviceboot Sep 08 05:06:04 StoneRyno: and yeah novacom open tty (etc) can allow you to do simple thing easily without downloads Sep 08 05:06:46 StoneRyno: but it lacks proper terminal controls (like vt100 emulation, etc) so you can basically only do one command line at a time type stuff, and you can't copy and paste Sep 08 05:06:55 StoneRyno: these days would it make more sense to dump palm-install and poit to webos quick install instead even for ipks? Sep 08 05:07:06 well you can, through cmd.exe's mark, copy mark, paste but it's awkward Sep 08 05:07:31 palm-install won't work for advanced homebrew, for instance. Sep 08 05:08:00 exactly so why use it at all. Sep 08 05:08:04 get them started right Sep 08 05:08:21 and it's cross platform so we don't have windows-and mac and linux versions of the instructions Sep 08 05:08:22 well quick install requires a 200 > megabyte < doctor download, right? Sep 08 05:08:29 nodnod Sep 08 05:08:31 I was thinking we could add a bullet point about using quick install and loading preware etc for installing released homebrew stuff Sep 08 05:08:38 but I guess that's no big deal for people in the modern world Sep 08 05:08:48 :P Sep 08 05:08:51 haha Sep 08 05:08:52 destinal: which they need handy anyway if they are preparing properly for homebrew ... ;-) Sep 08 05:09:00 hehe, good point Sep 08 05:09:41 DraX: you still around? Sep 08 05:10:00 HattCzech: yes Sep 08 05:10:25 if this["test"] returns an array... how do i access an element in the array? Sep 08 05:10:27 why does webos quick install need a copy of the webos doctor .jar? Sep 08 05:10:36 HattCzech: this['test'][0] Sep 08 05:10:38 epv: for the java classes to talk to novacom Sep 08 05:10:42 ohh Sep 08 05:10:56 HattCzech: or var arr = this['test']; arr[0]; Sep 08 05:11:00 oh its just a java frontend for the novacom install stuff? Sep 08 05:11:03 i havne't tried it yet. Sep 08 05:11:25 i tried that... it may be that i'm trying this['list'+var] and trying to get that to work Sep 08 05:11:34 epv: well it uses the classes to do normal installs and a lot more Sep 08 05:11:42 HattCzech: could be that the variable isn't defined Sep 08 05:11:47 if not you'll get undefined returned Sep 08 05:11:54 and then when you try to subscript undefined you'll get an exception Sep 08 05:12:25 try ('list'+var in this) Sep 08 05:12:32 epv: quick install can apply a lot of small patches it calls "tweaks" Sep 08 05:12:36 will tell you if that property actually exists Sep 08 05:12:39 i see Sep 08 05:12:41 epv: and it can install from feeds like ours Sep 08 05:12:45 ok. Sep 08 05:12:48 including postinst / prerm Sep 08 05:12:49 i'm getting the actual name... so var="Users" and ... ['list'+var] gives me 'listUsers' Sep 08 05:13:02 and listUsers is defined and i'm trying to access it (that's the array) Sep 08 05:13:04 is listUsers a function? Sep 08 05:13:18 it's an array Sep 08 05:13:32 are you sure? Sep 08 05:13:57 var listUsers = ["test1", "test2", "test3"]; Sep 08 05:14:16 can i get a bit more context please? Sep 08 05:14:21 a snippit of the code would help Sep 08 05:14:37 sure... one sec Sep 08 05:15:14 oil: looks like "killall java" is the solution for atomically restarting java-serviceboot ... Sep 08 05:15:31 there is only one situation where you'd be able to access listUsers with this Sep 08 05:15:34 can someone with a real Pre confirm there is only one java process running? Sep 08 05:15:35 given how you define it Sep 08 05:15:41 http://webos.pastebin.com/d3d4aa385 Sep 08 05:15:44 so I need to see the code to see what kind of scoping situation you're in Sep 08 05:15:58 this is just for me testing Sep 08 05:16:12 document.write(['list'+key]); Sep 08 05:16:20 you tried with this[...] right? Sep 08 05:16:22 document.write? Sep 08 05:16:42 i didn't try with this Sep 08 05:16:49 HattCzech: you need to use this Sep 08 05:16:50 wow Sep 08 05:16:52 simple Sep 08 05:16:57 hahaha Sep 08 05:17:12 ['list'+key] declares a single item array Sep 08 05:18:32 rwhitby, yea Sep 08 05:19:35 root@castle:/# ps -ef | grep java | wc -l Sep 08 05:19:35 1 Sep 08 05:19:39 Is there instructions on the wiki for setting up putty for someone who just installed the SDK and wants to use putty to access linux? Sep 08 05:20:05 HattCzech: basically it's some_object[index] or some_object.index Sep 08 05:20:16 okay Sep 08 05:20:54 HattCzech: this is a special object that refers to the current context. If you're not in an object or didn't using Function.{apply,call} it's probably going to be a diference to the global object Sep 08 05:21:00 StoneRyno: i'm not sure, but to connect, it's localhost on port 5522 Sep 08 05:21:01 i used the old method of novaproxy and setup for wifi access so I haven't looked at how the newer ways work exactly Sep 08 05:21:26 since var listUsers is not in a function, it's being defined in the global object Sep 08 05:21:37 so, coincidentally you can access it via this Sep 08 05:21:46 hmmm, intereting Sep 08 05:21:51 usually you'll want to put something like that in a actual object like var obj = {}; obj.xxx = 1; Sep 08 05:21:52 interesting* even Sep 08 05:21:57 and then do obj['xxx'] Sep 08 05:22:20 can i do the reverse of that? Sep 08 05:22:29 HattCzech: what do you mean? Sep 08 05:22:36 obj[xxx] = value ? Sep 08 05:22:39 yes Sep 08 05:22:43 okay good Sep 08 05:22:58 so has anyone else with preware 0.8.5 had this issue? M "Available patches" option is greyed out Sep 08 05:23:03 s/M/My/ Sep 08 05:23:04 psykoz meant: so has anyone else with preware 0.8.5 had this issue? My "Available patches" option is greyed out Sep 08 05:24:31 yup Sep 08 05:24:56 do you have the virtual keyboard installed? Sep 08 05:25:00 I do Sep 08 05:25:05 then its working great Sep 08 05:25:15 it defaults to not display installed packages as available Sep 08 05:25:17 HattCzech: the book that jon resig is working on right now (secrets of a javascript ninja) talks about a lot of that aspect of js in detail Sep 08 05:25:21 Oh, so if I uninstall that, it will show "1" is available, correct? Sep 08 05:25:22 but you can change it in the preferences page Sep 08 05:25:27 right Sep 08 05:25:33 Wow, nice ;) Sep 08 05:25:34 you can find it in the installed list Sep 08 05:25:37 or in the everything list Sep 08 05:25:39 I felt like I broked something Sep 08 05:25:43 no Sep 08 05:26:15 DraX: cool, thanks for the help Sep 08 05:26:54 HattCzech: np happy to help Sep 08 05:27:42 rwhitby: yes, only one java process Sep 08 05:28:03 man i hope server-side js catches on Sep 08 05:28:32 <-- builds pre kernel for fun Sep 08 05:28:52 plus bridging and vlan modules. whee Sep 08 05:31:46 DraX: since you seem pretty good with nifty tricks... is there a way to store a variable like var = value1 || value2 (where value1 is undefined, it'll take on value2)? Sep 08 05:32:01 yes Hatt Sep 08 05:32:07 exactly like that Sep 08 05:32:10 rick said that there is a messy way to do it, but it shouldn't be used Sep 08 05:32:18 HattCzech: right, x = x || 1; Sep 08 05:32:23 when i tried that, it errored Sep 08 05:32:39 let me try it again... Sep 08 05:32:40 it's var x = value1 || value2; Sep 08 05:32:43 you need the variable name Sep 08 05:33:02 there is also ternary conditional expressions Sep 08 05:33:08 (condition) ? true : false; Sep 08 05:33:12 if you need to do something more fancy Sep 08 05:35:27 wow javascript has that? cool Sep 08 05:35:32 will it work on undefined? Sep 08 05:35:42 yes undefined is fasly Sep 08 05:35:44 falsy Sep 08 05:36:01 does order matter? Sep 08 05:36:02 so is 0 Sep 08 05:36:18 err Sep 08 05:36:23 in what context? Sep 08 05:36:47 i have sound.enabled = this.soundOn || this.user.options.sound.enabled Sep 08 05:36:51 and it doesn't seem to work Sep 08 05:37:11 is sound defined? Sep 08 05:37:18 yes Sep 08 05:37:22 is soundOn Sep 08 05:37:31 not necessarily Sep 08 05:37:47 well then all of this.user.options.sound.enabled has to be Sep 08 05:37:56 when soundOn isn't Sep 08 05:38:10 yeah Sep 08 05:38:18 this.user.options.sound.enabled is defined Sep 08 05:38:35 what error are you getting? Sep 08 05:39:18 not an error, but it doesn't store the variable... i'm adding logging to check it Sep 08 05:39:54 pastebin Sep 08 05:39:57 ahhh okay, i'm an idiot Sep 08 05:40:06 it's WORKING, just not the way i want it to Sep 08 05:40:53 ok, so i want it to use soundOn IF AND ONLY IF it exists, otherwise, use user.options.sound.enabled Sep 08 05:41:00 a=b||c is the same as if (b) a=b else a=c Sep 08 05:42:20 HattCzech: sound.enabled = soundOn || this.user.options.sound.enabled should do that Sep 08 05:42:48 ok I've worked in some notes and such to the accessing linux procedure have a look at it and see if you think the changes I made are good Sep 08 05:43:01 well, it's a toggle, so soundOn is the value after being toggled, user.options.sound is a saved value Sep 08 05:43:16 oh, if soundOn is false Sep 08 05:43:20 it'll skip it Sep 08 05:43:21 the saved value remains true after the toggle happens, so then i've got false|| true Sep 08 05:43:21 :) Sep 08 05:43:26 yeah Sep 08 05:43:28 you can do Sep 08 05:43:41 ('soundOn' in this) ? this.soundOn : ....; Sep 08 05:43:48 or Sep 08 05:44:06 (typeof soundOn !== 'undefined') ? this.soundOn : ...; Sep 08 05:44:18 you probably don't need the typeof, and can do soundOn !== undefined; Sep 08 05:44:23 but IE does not like this Sep 08 05:44:26 yeah, that's what i had before Sep 08 05:44:28 because undefined is undefind and it gets ocnfused Sep 08 05:45:06 hmmm Sep 08 05:45:07 only think needed to add to the changes I made is steps for using putty for 1st time accessors if they choose to use it before setting up to use it via wifi Sep 08 05:45:30 i guess i could declare it, then check it... but sadly not a 1 liner :/ Sep 08 05:46:21 what's wrong with var x = (typeof soundOn !== 'undefined') ? this.soundOn : this.user.options.sound.enabled ? Sep 08 05:46:27 ehhh, and there's really no point in doing that... i can just stick with the if !== undefined ... soundOn ... else ... user.options Sep 08 05:46:55 i've never used the question mark, how does it work? Sep 08 05:47:02 use the conditional expression, it'll piss off jslint! :) Sep 08 05:47:05 it's Sep 08 05:47:14 (conditional) ? true : false; Sep 08 05:47:16 so if you do Sep 08 05:47:26 var x (true) ? 1 : 0; Sep 08 05:47:28 err Sep 08 05:47:31 var x = (true) ? 1 : 0; Sep 08 05:47:33 okay, that works Sep 08 05:47:34 then x will be 1 Sep 08 05:47:41 if you change true to false, x will be 0 Sep 08 05:47:46 and jslint complains about it, so it's got to be good. Sep 08 05:47:53 lol Sep 08 05:48:55 hahahah nice, i like that Sep 08 05:48:58 oil: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.6_all.ipk with 'restartluna' and 'restartjava' methods. 'restartjava' will always return false, since it restarts the messaging service, but 'status' should be ready as soon as it restarts itself. Sep 08 05:49:14 jslint said "no errors found" Sep 08 05:49:23 although i do have quite a bit unchecked :) Sep 08 05:49:24 odd Sep 08 05:49:29 it used to complain about that Sep 08 05:49:50 one of the guys at work used to try to jslintify my code Sep 08 05:49:54 he stopped after a while.. Sep 08 05:50:01 hahahahhahah awesome Sep 08 05:50:31 i jslintify mine so i make sure i don't miss random stuff (then i obfuscate it :) ) Sep 08 05:51:21 js2-mode catches most of the random stuff for me Sep 08 05:51:29 what's the point, it has to be de-obfuscated to run it doesn't it? Sep 08 05:52:27 nope Sep 08 05:52:58 i'm not hardcore about it... but it just removes end lines and spaces and stuff Sep 08 05:53:01 does novaterm require the pre to be connected by USB to use it? Sep 08 05:53:06 kinda a pain to read :) Sep 08 05:53:17 Until you beautify it Sep 08 05:54:00 heheh yeah, but i make it a take a little longer Sep 08 05:54:16 so it's just a minor annoyance rather than any sort of deterrant Sep 08 05:54:21 for now Sep 08 05:54:40 Function.toString() Sep 08 05:54:44 is the best beautifier Sep 08 06:00:03 DraX: you're awesome, i just removed like 20 lines from my code :) Sep 08 06:01:01 huh Sep 08 06:01:13 one of the "tags" in palms application submission page is "vlc" Sep 08 06:01:24 nah i've just spent to much time with js Sep 08 06:01:37 is there an xor? Sep 08 06:01:42 destinal: ping Sep 08 06:01:51 rwhitby: pong Sep 08 06:02:06 destinal: does termplugin need a RestartLuna or RestartJava ? Sep 08 06:02:11 (or something else) Sep 08 06:02:34 RestartLuna (only if upgrading) Sep 08 06:02:41 i.e. when you upgrade termplugin, do not reboot, and restart the terminal app, what else needs to have happened to make sure you are using the updated termplugin.so Sep 08 06:02:47 HattCzech: isn't that !x || !y ? Sep 08 06:03:04 yeah Sep 08 06:03:12 there is no special operator for it Sep 08 06:03:17 damn Sep 08 06:03:17 destinal: ok, thanks. Sep 08 06:03:19 okay Sep 08 06:06:46 you can xor 2 numbers in javascript can't you (x^y) Sep 08 06:07:18 bitwise xor yeah Sep 08 06:07:38 oh, and !x || !y isn't xor... i'm looking at it now, though Sep 08 06:07:48 or your own xor can just be (a) ? !b : b Sep 08 06:09:03 hmmm... Sep 08 06:09:11 rwhitby did the method names change? Sep 08 06:09:31 egaudet: brilliant! Sep 08 06:09:40 oil: yes Sep 08 06:09:47 * rwhitby bbl Sep 08 06:10:08 var blarg = ( x ? x : y ); Sep 08 06:10:13 is usually how i would do it Sep 08 06:10:27 oil that is just x || y Sep 08 06:10:32 yeah Sep 08 06:10:37 but that's not xor Sep 08 06:11:36 right Sep 08 06:11:38 sorry Sep 08 06:11:41 i only half payed attention Sep 08 06:15:28 so for a keyboard config database, think it would suffice to be just a key:json pair Sep 08 06:19:37 has anyone looked at how the camera app functions? Sep 08 06:19:43 and communicates with hardware? Sep 08 06:20:24 HattCzech: so what are yo working on anyway? :) Sep 08 06:21:10 my app, txt manager Sep 08 06:21:33 for managing sms? Sep 08 06:21:38 yup Sep 08 06:22:43 but i need palm to open up some shit before i can submit it to the app catalog :/ Sep 08 06:26:48 hey optware didnt set my ssh user and pass up right. you know where i can root into and fix that? Sep 08 06:57:12 oil: accelservice 0.2.0 can be used to test the new flags. Sep 08 06:59:31 can someone direct me to a link to download webos doctor Sep 08 07:00:03 i think the link changed and the .jar file doesn't work because of that Sep 08 07:00:32 is passwd broken? Sep 08 07:00:40 every pass returns me a too weak Sep 08 07:01:18 http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/pre/recoverytool/index.html Sep 08 07:01:25 that will give you the 1.1.0 version Sep 08 07:01:33 thanks Sep 08 07:01:49 i'm sure there are ones where you don't have to go through the stupid serial number crap Sep 08 07:02:58 rfk2: if you download webOS Quick Install, it'll grab the Doctor for you as well. Sep 08 07:03:15 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install.html Sep 08 07:03:34 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctor Sep 08 07:03:34 p100ewwsprint.jar Sep 08 07:03:42 i did download the webos quick install Sep 08 07:03:43 uh. http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctor Sep 08 07:03:48 sorry. can't cut/paste Sep 08 07:03:56 but it gives me an error Sep 08 07:04:04 http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/pre_p100eww/webosdoctor/p100ewwsprint.jar Sep 08 07:04:12 huh. use epv's link then :P Sep 08 07:04:12 there. Sep 08 07:04:24 java.io.filenotfoundexeption Sep 08 07:04:37 thats the error i get Sep 08 07:04:48 downloading the link epv gave me now Sep 08 07:05:03 didn't expect that i needed to give the serial number Sep 08 07:06:28 maybe they do it just so they will be sure to give you the version for your carrier Sep 08 07:07:02 maybe Sep 08 07:07:20 it's just the pre takes a long time to start up Sep 08 07:08:06 it's so nice that they give you a useful and usb-accessible bootloader Sep 08 07:09:00 damn cookies session timed out. didn't know cookies were required Sep 08 07:10:02 anyone alive? Sep 08 07:10:09 how to make fs read/write? Sep 08 07:10:23 im in noveterm right now trying to fix ssh Sep 08 07:10:48 search the wiki, i know for a fact the information for making it readwrite is there Sep 08 07:11:26 i found it on a forum thx Sep 08 07:14:06 so does web os quick install just run web os doctor or does it just run it with certain flags Sep 08 07:36:27 http://i32.tinypic.com/aew9z8.png Sep 08 07:47:40 how do i get the webosquick install to recognize the webosdoctor Sep 08 07:48:03 what name does it need to be or what folder does it need to be in Sep 08 07:49:49 is there no support for vista or something? Sep 08 07:54:19 rfk2 are you running vist 32 or 64 bit? Sep 08 07:55:06 <|rfk2|> vista 32 Sep 08 07:55:38 do you have both the webosquick install and the webosdoctor files in the same directory (folder) Sep 08 07:56:11 <|rfk2|> have them in the desktop folder aka Public Desktop Sep 08 07:57:07 <|rfk2|> but the webos doctor is also a .jnlp file Sep 08 07:57:34 have you tried right clicking the files and select open with ....java Sep 08 07:58:09 <|rfk2|> i have now Sep 08 07:58:15 <|rfk2|> but same thing happens Sep 08 07:58:18 java (tm) platform SE binary Sep 08 07:58:24 <|rfk2|> yes Sep 08 07:58:24 what happens? Sep 08 07:58:57 <|rfk2|> for the web os docter nothing appears to happen except the hard drive light flashes Sep 08 07:59:15 do you have the latest version of java installed ? Sep 08 07:59:27 <|rfk2|> and for the web os quick install it just asks to download the webos docter Sep 08 07:59:30 <|rfk2|> yes i do Sep 08 07:59:38 <|rfk2|> updated a few minutes ago Sep 08 07:59:53 http://www.java.com/en/download/dt_verify.jsp?plugin=true&latest=true&users_jre=1.6.0_16 Sep 08 08:00:05 double check with that link Sep 08 08:00:16 <|rfk2|> Version 6 Update 16 Sep 08 08:00:20 ok Sep 08 08:00:24 oil: org.webosinternals.luna-manager ? Sep 08 08:00:41 oil: shall I create a repo? Sep 08 08:01:29 * rwhitby wonders why all the people giving rfk2 random links didn't just point him to the webos doctor wiki page ? Sep 08 08:01:41 rfk2 have you read this thread yet? Sep 08 08:01:43 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/194832-webos-quick-install.html Sep 08 08:02:25 hmm rfk2 is from san diego also Sep 08 08:03:15 |rfk2|: webos quick install does not run the webos doctor. please read the precentral thread before going any further (especially post #1 on the thread) or you will likely completely wipe your phone by mistake. Sep 08 08:03:33 rwhitby can i ask you question Sep 08 08:03:56 <|rfk2|> yes i have read that page Sep 08 08:04:02 anyone can ask me a question. but if it's answered on the wiki or in the doco I'm likely not to answer it ... Sep 08 08:04:22 <|rfk2|> although i just realized he linked to the file to manually download webos doctor Sep 08 08:05:39 <|rfk2|> don't know how i would wipe my phone completely by mistake because it's supposed to "guide" you through Sep 08 08:06:00 to protect an idea for an app is there anything you can do? can you copywrite things like an idea or does it have to be more a fully functioning compiled program that is copywritten Sep 08 08:06:03 <|rfk2|> alright now it works Sep 08 08:06:20 <|rfk2|> guess i just needed the .jar file instead of the .jnlp file Sep 08 08:07:19 |rfk2|: a number of people have run the webos doctor instead of the webos quick install, and complained loudly to the author because their phone got wiped. Sep 08 08:07:43 BTW, the wiki page would have given you the URL for the .jar file directly. Sep 08 08:08:03 daybreak1199: ideas can be patented, code can be copyrighted. Sep 08 08:08:15 names can be trademarked Sep 08 08:08:19 <|rfk2|> does the web os doctor guide them through the fix or does it do it with no usere interaction Sep 08 08:08:30 oil: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/lunamanager.git;a=summary Sep 08 08:14:57 |rfk2|: dunno, I don't have a Pre and the doctor doesn't run against the emulator Sep 08 08:15:27 <|rfk2|> ok Sep 08 08:17:05 rwhitby: for someone that thinks they have a really good idea for an app but very little experience developing..would you suggest to patent the idea for the app then look for a developer to partner with? Sep 08 08:17:57 daybreak1199: I'd suggest you ask a lawyer if the potential dollars involved are big enough. Sep 08 08:18:05 <|rfk2|> now that i got this far i got the common no device found error Sep 08 08:18:18 rfk2 are you in dev mode? Sep 08 08:18:43 <|rfk2|> no don't think i have the dev mode installed Sep 08 08:18:44 |rfk2|: and you've read the troubleshooting guide, right? Sep 08 08:18:58 <|rfk2|> have the devoloper sdk on my computer installed Sep 08 08:19:17 <|rfk2|> says it can't find novacom Sep 08 08:19:26 |rfk2|: and you've read the troubleshooting guide, right? Sep 08 08:19:32 <|rfk2|> but the web os quick install installed novacom Sep 08 08:19:36 <|rfk2|> no not yet Sep 08 08:19:43 ... Sep 08 08:19:55 <|rfk2|> going to now though Sep 08 08:19:57 you need to see if the novacom service is running... Sep 08 08:20:31 <|rfk2|> guessing i check the processes that are running or go into services Sep 08 08:20:44 |rfk2|: in general, if there is doco or troubleshooting guides, it's a good idea to exhaust those before coming here :-) Sep 08 08:21:00 <|rfk2|> yeah Sep 08 08:21:12 <|rfk2|> came here first due to the first error Sep 08 08:21:31 * oil cant push it? Sep 08 08:21:38 they are far more likely to be useful than some random guy ... (no offense to daybreak1199) Sep 08 08:21:44 rwhitby: so there is no quick way to protect the idea of an app without investing alot of money by talking with a lawyer? Sep 08 08:21:44 <|rfk2|> ok novacom is running now Sep 08 08:22:20 lol..ya i understand..i just thought i'd throw out some tips i ran accross in the wiki Sep 08 08:22:35 oil: git@git.webos-internals.org:applications/lunamanager.git ? Sep 08 08:23:14 daybreak1199: patents are expensive Sep 08 08:24:38 rwhitby: i had an idea they were expensive. are most developers doing it because they love coding or are some ding it with and end goal of trying to sell the app as a product? Sep 08 08:25:14 <|rfk2|> some people are just giving the app away free until it hits the app store Sep 08 08:26:57 rfk2: i understand that, I dont have any experience writing an app..but i feel i have this great idea for one and i am trying to figure out how to get my idea into reality Sep 08 08:28:06 oil: able to push? Sep 08 08:28:30 * rwhitby bbml Sep 08 08:34:57 <|rfk2|> ok so did i need to install the developer sdk or did i just have to type upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Sep 08 08:35:04 rwhitby: i pushed it Sep 08 08:35:46 <|rfk2|> because it seems like all i needed to do was type upupdowndownleftrightleftrightbastart Sep 08 08:36:42 <|rfk2|> in the process right now so it seems that i won't be having problems now Sep 08 08:36:59 btw you cannot patent an idea Sep 08 08:37:03 fyi :P Sep 08 08:37:21 <|rfk2|> makes sense Sep 08 08:38:11 <|rfk2|> i'm sure you could patent it if you actually make it or make part of it Sep 08 08:38:33 you can patent it if you make a model or something Sep 08 08:38:41 start to turn the idea into reality Sep 08 08:38:47 or plan to Sep 08 08:39:00 i know lots of companies file patents early Sep 08 08:39:30 but either way you cant really patent software Sep 08 08:39:32 afaik Sep 08 08:40:12 or code actually Sep 08 08:42:53 so nobody doing this webos internals has any dirt on the camera hardware? Sep 08 08:49:16 <|rfk2|> if your talking about what i'm thinking there is an app for the camera that has a delay and also removes the camera shutter sound too Sep 08 08:51:46 * oil bets hes wondering about video recording Sep 08 09:04:34 video Sep 08 09:04:45 i was thinking about working on something Sep 08 09:04:54 didnt know if any progress was made Sep 08 09:04:55 * oil wins Sep 08 09:04:58 preware thread in the precentral homebrew section still lists 0.8.0 Sep 08 09:05:06 yeah Sep 08 09:05:08 i gotta update that Sep 08 09:05:46 http://gizmodo.com/333346/iphone-video-recording-now-working-with-drunknbass Sep 08 09:06:02 maybe if i can get it working i can relive that lol Sep 08 09:11:24 oil, do you recall the date of the leaked 1.2 webos doctor build? Sep 08 09:11:35 the build date, rather Sep 08 09:14:22 no Sep 08 10:04:21 <|rfk2|> unfortunately i'm still getting the no device detected error Sep 08 10:07:21 <|rfk2|> everything seems to be right Sep 08 10:07:32 <|rfk2|> but i still get that error Sep 08 10:07:52 <|rfk2|> only thing i can think of is that novacom didn't install correctly Sep 08 10:09:45 <|rfk2|> i'm going to see if reinstalling novacom fixes it Sep 08 10:17:28 <|rfk2|> well uninstalling and reinstalling didn't fix it Sep 08 10:17:37 <|rfk2|> don't know whats wrong Sep 08 10:18:12 <|rfk2|> but what ever it is it's probably something obvious that i never would of thought of Sep 08 10:18:38 <|rfk2|> can't find anything in troubleshooting Sep 08 10:19:22 <|rfk2|> oh wait Sep 08 10:19:25 <|rfk2|> hold on Sep 08 10:28:57 same error Sep 08 10:41:43 everything is correct though is the thing Sep 08 10:42:28 except that when i re-installed novacom it didn't appear in the services window anymore Sep 08 10:57:14 DID I HEAR VIDEO RECORDING Sep 08 10:57:14 AHHH VIDEO RECORDING Sep 08 10:57:14 lol, first day of school, bye guys. Sep 08 11:16:43 this is really annoying Sep 08 11:16:52 everything is right Sep 08 11:17:00 exept novacom Sep 08 11:17:09 and i can't get novacom right Sep 08 12:15:46 Package Manager Service 0.8.6 is released - no new features for users, but will be a prerequisite for a new app called Luna Manager, and also the next version of Preware. Sep 08 12:21:59 what is going on Sep 08 12:22:07 ipkg service is crashing every two days Sep 08 12:22:08 wtf Sep 08 12:32:14 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.lunamanager_0.0.1_all.ipk ready for alpha testing Sep 08 12:32:24 (thanks to oil) Sep 08 12:35:33 wow, the developer.palm.com api reference is totally out of touch with com.palm.app.messaging ... Sep 08 12:35:41 to the point of being "wrong" or "useless" Sep 08 12:35:47 I mean, you guys said, but still Sep 08 12:36:02 I guess I'll just use the source Sep 08 12:49:30 * rwhitby bbt Sep 08 12:54:39 rwhitby: luna manager looks nice Sep 08 13:20:05 morning folks Sep 08 14:48:25 morning Sep 08 14:50:20 hmm Sep 08 14:50:34 l.mp4: ISO Media, MPEG v4 system, version 1 Sep 08 14:50:45 pre should be able to open this right? Sep 08 15:09:01 depends on the internal codec Sep 08 15:14:42 VIDEO: [mp4v] 624x352 24bpp 23.976 fps 0.0 kbps ( 0.0 kbyte/s) Sep 08 15:14:46 hmm Sep 08 15:14:48 looking good Sep 08 15:25:16 PuffTheMagic: did you make any headway with thos LS* functions? Sep 08 15:25:27 sora Sep 08 15:26:08 LSMessageIsSubscription() basically just looks for subscription:true as a param Sep 08 15:26:20 LSSubscriptionProcess() i think creates a new process Sep 08 15:26:33 but idk how to use it properly Sep 08 15:26:34 or at all Sep 08 15:28:11 how did you compile batteryservice? Sep 08 15:28:48 i am using gentoo and my cross toolchain to build a mini arm userland Sep 08 15:29:13 what Makefile / gcc command? Sep 08 15:29:28 then i do something like this Sep 08 15:29:32 INC_DIR="-I${ROOT}usr/include/ -I${ROOT}include/" Sep 08 15:29:48 LDFLAGS="-L${ROOT}lib -L${ROOT}usr/lib" Sep 08 15:29:57 so that i can build against the correct root Sep 08 15:30:30 ./autogen.sh; ./configure --build=armv7a-softfloat-linux-gnueabi Sep 08 15:30:40 but ROOT is hardcoded in configure.in right now Sep 08 15:30:47 i meant to make the a config option or env var Sep 08 15:31:11 and i should switch form --build to --host Sep 08 15:31:18 but when i use host it dont find the right pkg-config Sep 08 15:31:24 and i havent looked into fixing that Sep 08 15:32:24 can you pastebin the Makefile you are using, i'll work off of that Sep 08 15:33:06 all the autotools files are in the git repo Sep 08 15:44:22 http://josephcrawford.com/2009/09/08/sun-v100-rackmount-servers-free/ Sep 08 15:50:53 jcrawford: damn... so bad i dont live closer Sep 08 15:51:30 hmm, can't compile, it needs libsysfs which i don't have for cross-compiling :-( Sep 08 15:51:48 Zuchmir2: so build it :D Sep 08 15:51:54 maybe i'll fix the src to NOT use libsysfs, instead just read the file Sep 08 15:52:05 why cant u just build libsysfs Sep 08 15:52:12 where's the src? Sep 08 15:52:17 PuffTheMagic, yea and shipping them would cost like $40 each Sep 08 15:52:24 sysfsutils Sep 08 15:52:40 Zuchmir2: http://linux-diag.sourceforge.net/Sysfsutils.html Sep 08 15:52:55 SF.net has conf for arm? Sep 08 15:53:07 shouldnt need anything special Sep 08 15:53:12 just configure it for the toolchain Sep 08 15:53:15 and then build Sep 08 15:53:55 probably easier to just mod those few calls to a simple read_file() call (the one i pastebin'ed a few days ago) Sep 08 15:54:10 Zuchmir2: you are gonna need a bettery arm userland Sep 08 15:54:17 if you are gonna be doing services Sep 08 15:54:31 you will need cjson.so Sep 08 15:54:37 libcjson.so Sep 08 15:54:42 and libmjson.so Sep 08 15:54:54 to link against lunaservices.so Sep 08 15:56:39 hmm, where are those libs? Sep 08 15:57:14 hou need libgdbus too Sep 08 15:57:38 Zuchmir2: it might be easier for me to tar.lzma the userland i made Sep 08 15:57:47 but i need to rebuild it using glibc 2.6 Sep 08 15:58:00 ok Sep 08 15:58:00 cause right now its using 2.9 Sep 08 15:58:26 that's fine; they're abi compatible Sep 08 15:58:38 i'm compiling against eglibc 2.9 Sep 08 15:58:50 no problems so far Sep 08 15:59:08 ajames: i built a few things with 2.9 and they worked find Sep 08 15:59:09 fine Sep 08 15:59:10 but Sep 08 15:59:17 i just tried building ruby Sep 08 15:59:22 and it wants 2.6 Sep 08 15:59:42 ah Sep 08 15:59:47 well Sep 08 15:59:53 when i copied the binary and so to the pre Sep 08 16:00:01 thats when it said could not find 2.6 Sep 08 16:00:23 but you built against 2.9? Sep 08 16:00:52 yeah i built ruby i with my cross env with gcc 4.4 and glibc 2.9 Sep 08 16:00:57 you said you used gentoo's cross toolchain, right? Sep 08 16:01:07 AnOutsider: ping Sep 08 16:01:11 ajames: i used gentoo's crossdev to build a toolchain Sep 08 16:01:21 then i use some special emerge wrappers to build other packages with it Sep 08 16:01:24 and install them in a special dir Sep 08 16:01:28 i tried using debian's emchain Sep 08 16:01:47 i've made some ebuilds for the special palm libs Sep 08 16:01:51 like libgdbus Sep 08 16:01:53 and the jsons Sep 08 16:01:55 but it had a lot of breakage Sep 08 16:02:07 ajames: i'd suggest gentoo, its pretty good for this type of stuff Sep 08 16:02:12 the instructions in eglibc's src package are dead easy though Sep 08 16:02:28 eglibc? Sep 08 16:02:36 and i only have to set CC Sep 08 16:02:50 it's a fork focused on embedded linux Sep 08 16:02:59 better than uclibc? Sep 08 16:03:15 larger Sep 08 16:03:27 meant for systems with mmu's Sep 08 16:03:28 locale/nls works i bet though :D Sep 08 16:03:34 it sure does Sep 08 16:03:43 uclibc works fine on mmu boxes Sep 08 16:03:57 but eglibc doesn't work on mmu-less boxes Sep 08 16:03:58 i have a whole uclibc gentoo system for my OLPC Sep 08 16:04:00 it runs kde4 Sep 08 16:04:01 :D Sep 08 16:04:02 just like glibc Sep 08 16:04:10 crazy Sep 08 16:04:21 puff: http://pastebin.com/d2dfc712f Sep 08 16:04:28 no one though i would get kde4 built on uclibc Sep 08 16:05:03 Zuchmir2: what are you sending me? Sep 08 16:05:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evMPY3alRkU Sep 08 16:05:07 5:20 Sep 08 16:05:19 slight mod: http://pastebin.com/d6ae5d420 Sep 08 16:05:37 this is using read_file_len() instead of all the libsysfs Sep 08 16:05:37 oops Sep 08 16:05:37 wrong window Sep 08 16:05:37 lol Sep 08 16:05:57 Zuchmir2: that solves like 1 out 4 issues you have Sep 08 16:06:06 and the pre has libsysfs on it Sep 08 16:06:12 so final version is still gonna use that Sep 08 16:07:08 i know i could have read it directly Sep 08 16:07:29 but i wanted to use libsysfs, i never used it before and it got features i might use down the road as i learn it better Sep 08 16:08:00 also you are using GString , which could be replaced with simple malloc()/free() Sep 08 16:08:31 as i can see, the libsysfs is good for files that have multiple params Sep 08 16:08:50 s/can see/would guess/ Sep 08 16:08:50 Zuchmir2 meant: as i would guess, the libsysfs is good for files that have multiple params Sep 08 16:10:04 ... also the g_convert() i think is only needed for that ID file, which IMHO is output wrong as text Sep 08 16:10:41 Zuchmir2: yes i know i dont need to use gstring, i was just following in the steps of libpurpleadapter as i was learning, and since liblunaservice, using glib and its already loadded why not use them Sep 08 16:10:52 i dont get why malloc/free is better than using gstring Sep 08 16:11:14 Zuchmir2: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/bluetooth/libgdbus-0.2.tar.bz2 Sep 08 16:11:17 you need that Sep 08 16:11:51 and http://oss.metaparadigm.com/json-c/json-c-0.9.tar.gz Sep 08 16:12:27 and this http://sourceforge.net/projects/mjson/files/mjson/1.1/mjson-1.1.tar.bz2/download Sep 08 16:13:58 because gstring has to malloc/free for every time you append data Sep 08 16:14:10 yeah i realize that Sep 08 16:14:13 which is why i used it Sep 08 16:14:19 i didnt want to append shit my self Sep 08 16:14:56 a more compact version of your code: http://pastebin.com/d23a5f246 Sep 08 16:15:00 Zuchmir2: u need this for mjson http://omploader.org/vMmI3NQ Sep 08 16:15:59 char *jsonResponse = malloc(strlen(attribute) + sizeof("{\"" "\":\"" "\"}") + strlen(str) + 1); Sep 08 16:16:03 how is that correct? Sep 08 16:17:08 AnOutsider: http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/197022-video-recording-real-no-gui-4.html Sep 08 16:17:41 what's the issue with that, sizeof() calculat4e how many bytes that would require Sep 08 16:18:28 that does not look like it allocates enough space Sep 08 16:18:45 what's it not taking into account? Sep 08 16:19:40 well maybe it does as i look more... the spaces in sizeof throw me off Sep 08 16:19:59 does this look better: char *jsonResponse = (char *)malloc(strlen(attribute) + sizeof("{\"\":\"\"}") + strlen(str) + 1); Sep 08 16:20:24 Zuchmir2: im sure there are efficiency improvements all over, yes my C sucks, would still like to focus on getting basic functionality working before optimizations Sep 08 16:20:35 it's basically the sprintf minus the %s Sep 08 16:20:39 just hardcode it to 7 Sep 08 16:21:10 yeah, but i don't want to start learning 200 libs, to be able to focus on a project :-) Sep 08 16:21:34 hardcode makes it hard to read/understand Sep 08 16:21:49 you dont need to learn a libsysfs, i already had it working Sep 08 16:21:59 the subscription stuff needs to happen regardless of that part Sep 08 16:22:02 yeah, but have to compile etc Sep 08 16:22:05 Zuchmir2, I think a comment with a hardcode of 7 would be easier to read than that sizeof Sep 08 16:22:17 and you will still need libmjson libjson libgdbus Sep 08 16:22:23 so what is 1 more... Sep 08 16:22:26 ' /* {"":""} = 7 */ Sep 08 16:23:18 1 more = 1 more pain :-) Sep 08 16:24:07 does anyone know exactly what version of binutils and gcc the pre userland was built with? Sep 08 16:24:18 Zuchmir2: building these is so trivial with gentoo Sep 08 16:24:20 upgrade your OS :D Sep 08 16:25:48 don't have gentoo installed Sep 08 16:25:50 gcc 4.2.? Sep 08 16:25:55 yeah prob 4.2 Sep 08 16:25:59 which .h file has LSErrorInit() etc Sep 08 16:26:08 binutils-2.17.50.0.8 Sep 08 16:26:22 Zuchmir2: we dont have anything from palm about LS* Sep 08 16:26:34 Zuchmir2: i implemented a few typedefs in include/lunaservice.h Sep 08 16:28:35 you didn't put the declares for the LS* functions in there, so i thought they were elsewhere Sep 08 16:28:49 yeah i didnt put them in there Sep 08 16:28:54 cause it seemed to link with out them Sep 08 16:29:05 i've only put in there what i've needed to compile so far Sep 08 16:44:00 who manages the interface for preware? is that oil? Sep 08 16:44:27 puff: http://pastebin.com/d10770cd7 is the declares, so it compiles cleaner Sep 08 16:45:29 ... and methods, for cleaner compile: http://pastebin.com/df7c8b27 Sep 08 16:45:32 i though it was pretty clean Sep 08 16:45:36 to begin with Sep 08 16:45:50 did you enable some extra cflags for more warnings? Sep 08 16:46:29 why would you do that to methods[] Sep 08 16:46:40 the way i had it was exactly like it is in libpurple-adapter Sep 08 16:46:42 i like using -Wall to make sure there no errors Sep 08 16:47:35 becuase you declared void* ptr1; and you passed a pointer to a function, that's not exactly a void * Sep 08 16:47:49 then change the declare Sep 08 16:47:58 that decleare is not set in stone Sep 08 16:48:04 that was my guess to get it compiling Sep 08 16:50:17 is this better: http://pastebin.com/d5df2cb65 Sep 08 16:51:00 Zuchmir2: you love the My* stuff dont you :D Sep 08 16:51:12 i changed to: #define MY_CALLBACK(x) x and it comiles clean Sep 08 16:52:54 that's so it doesn't clash with any "builtin" or other decalres elsewhere Sep 08 16:53:12 oil: you around? Sep 08 16:55:46 for all i know, LSCallbackPtr could be completely diff in the "real" .h's and as soon as they are released will cause conflics and/or hard to find errors, by prefixing My, it sorta eliminates that issue Sep 08 16:57:45 i just dont even get the purpose of masking the warning Sep 08 16:57:51 by using this typedef Sep 08 16:58:33 that way -Wall doesn't complain Sep 08 16:58:50 ... easier to find *real* errors Sep 08 16:59:32 yeah but now our service is differing from a tried and true official service Sep 08 17:00:04 but i guess that will have to be Sep 08 17:00:22 techniacally, "void *", and "MyLSCallbackPtr*" occupiy the same amount of bytes in memory Sep 08 17:00:59 i.e. on 32-bit platform, they are both 32-bit, on 64-bit platform 64-bit, so no diff Sep 08 17:01:29 it's simply for the compiler to know what to expect there Sep 08 17:01:45 ... an warn if it finds something else Sep 08 17:02:49 example, say you accidently declared: static bool validate_battery(LSHandle* lshandle, LSMessage *message/*, void *ctx*/) with the proper declare, the compiler will warn you, and you have to decide it is/sn't ok Sep 08 17:03:45 if everything is void *, the compiler knows nothing abut what to expect Sep 08 17:04:09 btw: LibpurpleAdapter.c only uses 2 parameters: { "login", login }, not 3 Sep 08 17:04:16 i know Sep 08 17:04:18 but Sep 08 17:04:23 when I used 2 Sep 08 17:04:32 ever 3 methods worked Sep 08 17:04:35 every 3 Sep 08 17:04:50 so like the first, fourth, seventh etc. Sep 08 17:04:58 when i added in the extra field Sep 08 17:05:03 then every method worked Sep 08 17:05:07 so idk whats up with that Sep 08 17:05:11 ok, so because they had the real .h file, it didn't need the 3rd param, it was implied Sep 08 17:05:44 implied? Sep 08 17:06:17 if you get rid of the NULL now, it will still work, as the struct has a known size Sep 08 17:06:57 before the compiler thought there are 2 32-bit values in the struct, now it knows there are 3 Sep 08 17:07:31 k Sep 08 17:08:03 so even if you don't put anything there the compiler knows to pad that (not necessarily NULL, but something is there) Sep 08 17:08:31 but it's fine as is, i forgot you had to do trial 'n error for that Sep 08 17:12:47 btw how do you know the structure layout of LSError ? Sep 08 18:50:25 whats good? Sep 08 19:12:26 anyone have issues w/ the package managemnt services? Sep 08 19:12:28 service Sep 08 19:12:30 it goes nuts on me Sep 08 19:12:40 preware says unable to contact it Sep 08 19:12:46 and then phone gets very slow Sep 08 19:12:51 like its chewing up cpu cycles Sep 08 19:13:36 after the upgrade? Sep 08 19:13:47 ? Sep 08 19:13:50 from X to 8.02? Sep 08 19:14:25 with webosquick,jar w/e Sep 08 19:14:39 oc80z, you talking to me? Sep 08 19:15:14 mm,mya Sep 08 19:17:41 WebOSQuickInstall.jar?? Sep 08 19:21:09 spotter: reboot Sep 08 19:21:11 your pre Sep 08 19:21:17 see if its better Sep 08 19:21:28 it does get better when I reboot Sep 08 19:21:31 but it can happen again Sep 08 19:21:39 can or does? Sep 08 19:21:46 does Sep 08 19:21:50 not always Sep 08 19:21:52 if ran into the same-like issues. Sep 08 19:21:52 that should only happen after upgrades possibly Sep 08 19:21:56 idk why its happening other times Sep 08 19:22:01 this happens on startup Sep 08 19:22:06 as if the service is going wonky Sep 08 19:22:11 lol how u think? will apple release new itunes tomorrow with blocked pre access? Sep 08 19:22:12 it probably is Sep 08 19:22:13 yeah its a service issue imo Sep 08 19:22:14 :> Sep 08 19:22:23 spotter: can you ssh in? Sep 08 19:22:28 egaudet_work: going to webosboston? Sep 08 19:22:31 I have terminal Sep 08 19:22:40 so if I can get that open can do stuff Sep 08 19:22:43 but not occuring right now Sep 08 19:22:53 bout to bike to mit Sep 08 19:22:54 but no ssh? Sep 08 19:23:01 hmm Sep 08 19:23:03 actually do have ssh Sep 08 19:23:06 installed optware Sep 08 19:23:09 but haven't used it Sep 08 19:23:10 i mean u can use terminal Sep 08 19:23:13 but it will be harder Sep 08 19:23:18 as barely have wifi on Sep 08 19:23:21 spotter: type 'initctl events' Sep 08 19:23:26 en0x: yes, then palm will get access to it again in 1.2 or 1.1.1, lol Sep 08 19:23:43 spotter: do u need any events after typing that Sep 08 19:23:49 like do you see ipkgservice restarting? Sep 08 19:24:16 gkatsev: i dont think that they will block it now if they will do then they will block some ipods too Sep 08 19:24:18 its just sitting there Sep 08 19:24:20 doing noithing Sep 08 19:24:32 spotter: thats good for the most part Sep 08 19:24:37 org.webosinternals.ipkgservce Sep 08 19:24:40 is it being "slow" right now? Sep 08 19:24:47 no Sep 08 19:24:50 en0x: we'll see. there might not be a new itunes tomorrow Sep 08 19:24:57 no can't make it :( Sep 08 19:25:05 but i dont care. dont use itunes. it sucks... Sep 08 19:25:11 egaudet_work: aww Sep 08 19:25:40 spotter: when it starts running slow can do this again and check to see if its restarting? Sep 08 19:25:43 ok Sep 08 19:25:44 i dont use it too Sep 08 19:25:50 so its probably continually restarting? Sep 08 19:25:57 i.e. starts, dies, starts, dies? Sep 08 19:25:59 thats my guess Sep 08 19:26:00 is that the guess? Sep 08 19:26:03 ok Sep 08 19:26:25 i cant believe how much java is on this thing Sep 08 19:26:37 how much? Sep 08 19:26:38 java uses up like 20-30% of cpu Sep 08 19:26:43 how do i just restart ipkg services without rebooting the phone? Sep 08 19:26:55 err Sep 08 19:26:58 s/cpu/mem/ Sep 08 19:27:16 en0x: stop org.webosinternals.ipkgservcice Sep 08 19:27:22 start org.webosinternals.ipkgservcice Sep 08 19:27:23 sup puff Sep 08 19:27:30 tlz: hi Sep 08 19:27:33 how goes it Sep 08 19:27:40 good i guess Sep 08 19:28:09 PuffTheMagic: who is working on the luna manager? maybe he can add that so i can restart ipkgservice from luna manager Sep 08 19:28:10 So, last night my ipkgservice was down, had to where I was at manually restart it via terminal, made me think it'd be nice if there was a GUI service manager Sep 08 19:28:22 because every two days i get no ipkgservice running Sep 08 19:28:23 :S Sep 08 19:28:29 en0x: i am making an upstart service and gui Sep 08 19:28:43 which will make most of luna manager useless Sep 08 19:28:51 oh i see Sep 08 19:28:57 what is Luna Manager? Sep 08 19:29:03 nice let me know if it will be ready for beta testing Sep 08 19:29:06 PuffTheMagic: ^ Sep 08 19:29:17 yea no prob Sep 08 19:29:19 anyone running preware 0.8.2 and have it stuck on the loading screen? Sep 08 19:29:28 i'm running 0.8.6 Sep 08 19:29:36 i am gonna start on the upstart service once i get subscriptions working in sysfs battery service Sep 08 19:29:58 i'm waiting for irc client :( Sep 08 19:30:06 enox Sep 08 19:30:10 just use irssi in terminal ;) Sep 08 19:30:26 i dont like it Sep 08 19:30:32 tlz: everyone gets that in 082, upgrade to 085 Sep 08 19:31:10 tlz: well i dont mind it but i dont like it i tried all scrollz, epic+lice, irssi, bitchx Sep 08 19:31:33 irssi sucks Sep 08 19:31:45 and im not even talking about on the pre Sep 08 19:31:55 there is nothing better than native irc client for webos Sep 08 19:31:57 and if say screen+irssi ownz Sep 08 19:32:01 then you havent tried quassel Sep 08 19:32:04 and i whipped up the luna manager Sep 08 19:32:06 if i update preware via ipkg -o /var upgrade Sep 08 19:32:11 restarting services should restart ipkgservice Sep 08 19:32:12 do i need to run the postinst Sep 08 19:32:22 preware doesnt have a postinst Sep 08 19:32:23 I've been using screen/irssi for a decade now Sep 08 19:32:27 Good luck changing that habit Sep 08 19:32:28 but the package manager does Sep 08 19:32:31 so, you will need to do it for that Sep 08 19:32:41 since preware 085 requires package service 085 Sep 08 19:32:54 do you know the path to where it is Sep 08 19:32:59 no Sep 08 19:33:08 eh, i'll just search for it lol Sep 08 19:34:03 at one point couldn't I upgrade package manager from preware? Sep 08 19:34:29 oil, for those of us who don't have easy access to a computer, hard to upgrade service :) Sep 08 19:34:41 terminal Sep 08 19:35:31 hmmmm Sep 08 19:35:38 now its stuck on checking version Sep 08 19:35:54 i think i should webOSdr my phone and try running like that for a few days, cuz data and voice have been horrible for me Sep 08 19:37:42 chrisa: yeah i know there are some die hard irssi fans Sep 08 19:37:49 chrisa: i like giving them a hard time Sep 08 19:37:51 :D Sep 08 19:40:26 hehe Sep 08 19:40:42 i'm partial to bx because me and panasync used to talk Sep 08 19:40:51 but i've never given irssi a change Sep 08 19:42:27 bitchx sux big time Sep 08 19:42:38 :( Sep 08 19:47:36 seriously you people need to try quassel Sep 08 19:47:41 its client/server based Sep 08 19:47:50 so you can run the server part on your local box or on a server Sep 08 19:48:01 and it keeps your connected all the time if u run it on a server that is always up Sep 08 19:48:07 then u can use a client on any platform Sep 08 19:48:34 and if using a remote server then all your channels will be there Sep 08 19:48:40 with all their backlogs etc. Sep 08 19:48:44 so it's a bounce ? Sep 08 19:48:46 i called sprint about service in my house Sep 08 19:49:14 bpadalino|work: i guess... idk what a bounce is specifically.. Sep 08 19:49:44 You can do all that with an irssi plugin Sep 08 19:49:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNC_(software) Sep 08 19:49:46 and told them i was thinking about returning the phone and switching back to verizon because of service in my house Sep 08 19:49:46 and they just said Sep 08 19:49:46 the airave is $100, thanks, bye. Sep 08 19:49:46 DIDNT EVEN OFFER IT FOR FREE :P Sep 08 19:49:50 Or just use screen/irssi ;) Sep 08 19:50:05 screen is where it's at Sep 08 19:50:19 i don't even use 1/100th of what screen can do Sep 08 19:50:22 and it's great Sep 08 19:54:27 does this run on anyones pre browser? http://webkit.org/blog-files/3d-transforms/morphing-cubes.html Sep 08 20:08:51 hello Sep 08 20:12:08 Zuchmir2: ping Sep 08 20:18:42 Got a question on preware, how does it affect battery life? Sep 08 20:21:07 puff: pong Sep 08 20:24:19 well preware 0.8.5 seems a little faster but still is hung on the laoding screen Sep 08 20:24:36 close and reopen Sep 08 20:24:57 odd Sep 08 20:24:58 Got a question on preware, how does it affect battery life? Sep 08 20:25:00 mine preware is damn fast Sep 08 20:25:16 I've found that if it hangs for me, it'll load up no problem after I close and reopen Sep 08 20:25:17 30 seconds and its done with updating feeds and loading Sep 08 20:25:19 why is the close/reopen necessary? Sep 08 20:25:32 I could just be impatient :D Sep 08 20:25:52 i wonder why app catalog is faster than preware Sep 08 20:26:16 en0x: beats me I found filecoaster faster, but less featured not tried 8.5 yet Sep 08 20:26:31 i'm on 8.6 Sep 08 20:26:31 :) Sep 08 20:27:03 Does anyone know where to get the source code for the termplugin? Sep 08 20:27:42 I have terminal and terminal service installed but I don't get a command prompt... does it require root access Sep 08 20:28:04 just black screen? Sep 08 20:28:18 yes Sep 08 20:28:18 Bsims: ^ Sep 08 20:28:25 Bsims: change the colors Sep 08 20:28:30 font colors and background Sep 08 20:29:27 nevermind. Sep 08 20:29:32 I just noticed the link to the source in the wiki Sep 08 20:29:54 Hrm I'll try that Sep 08 20:32:07 No joy stays black even when I set the background to red Sep 08 20:32:18 I've not rooted the phone at all though Sep 08 20:33:03 Arg. Sep 08 20:33:23 Apparently the glitorious page is broken. Sep 08 20:33:42 gitorious* Sep 08 20:33:58 Zuchmir2: i have a userland for u to test Sep 08 20:34:19 http://preyourmind.org/files/pre-dev-userland-0.0.1_alpha.tar.bz2 Sep 08 20:34:34 Bsims: did you reboot? Sep 08 20:35:05 Nope I;ll try that Sep 08 20:40:24 No joy Sep 08 20:40:40 still black screen even though I set it to white Sep 08 20:43:10 en0x: any ideas? Sep 08 20:43:31 nope Sep 08 20:43:35 ask rwhitby Sep 08 20:43:35 Hmm. Sep 08 20:43:35 ;) Sep 08 20:44:28 Bsims, have you tried removing them and reinstalling it? Sep 08 20:47:27 PuffTheMagic: looking at it now Sep 08 20:48:03 Zuchmir2: http://preyourmind.org/content/gentoo-based-cross-development-userland Sep 08 20:48:13 im gonna expand in there about it Sep 08 20:48:19 and explain how it made it Sep 08 20:48:23 you really should get gentoo Sep 08 20:50:39 ird: No but I can Sep 08 20:51:22 When I first installed it, nothing worked. Sep 08 20:51:28 After removing and installing again, it worked fine. Sep 08 20:52:28 Does anyone know where to get the termplugin source? The links in the wiki go to a repo that no longer exist. Sep 08 20:54:26 Hrm I can't remove the terminal background service till I get home, but reinstalling the app did nothing Sep 08 20:54:27 http://git.webos-internals.org Sep 08 20:54:55 grrr Sep 08 20:55:07 egaudet_work, thanks. Sep 08 20:55:23 I had tried doing that through cl but it kept asking for a password. Sep 08 20:59:20 are all those files needed? etc, packages, ... Sep 08 21:01:30 Zuchmir2: needed? prob not. maybe useful at some point? maybe... Sep 08 21:01:44 Zuchmir2: i can exclude them from future builds/releases Sep 08 21:01:46 no biggie Sep 08 21:01:49 This is why I wish I'd stuck with learning to program when I was younger. Sep 08 21:02:13 ird: i didnt learn till i was older Sep 08 21:02:25 granted im not great, i know a little about a lot of stuff Sep 08 21:02:50 I've finally found something I want to do, I just can't figure my way through all this stuff to figure out how it works. Sep 08 21:05:39 I just need to figure out how to write a plugin that I can interact with via mojo. Sep 08 21:05:53 But the termplugin (and the mojo side of it aswell) don't make much sense. :p Sep 08 21:06:11 Does the term plugin support curses? I assume it doesn't Sep 08 21:07:00 yeah it does Sep 08 21:07:02 nano works Sep 08 21:07:50 interesting, I'm curious what they do to properly render the terminfo in mojo Sep 08 21:08:18 Zuchmir2: the files in the packages dir should make it easy to ipks for binary libs/apps Sep 08 21:09:45 chrisa, it's all open source - check i tout Sep 08 21:10:07 ird: what are you interested in doing Sep 08 21:10:13 there might be some others here that share your interest Sep 08 21:10:17 esp if its plugin related Sep 08 21:10:27 hrm, maybe i read that wrong - mojo only gives the blank canvas .. the plugin renders all the text Sep 08 21:10:48 So the plugin is just sending a buffer back? Gotcha Sep 08 21:10:55 yes Sep 08 21:12:25 hmm gitorious is failing Sep 08 21:13:14 what's up at gitorious ? Sep 08 21:13:46 The term plugin Sep 08 21:14:02 oh - i think there is a more recent git repo on webos-internals Sep 08 21:14:03 hold Sep 08 21:14:19 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=plugins/termplugin.git;a=summary Sep 08 21:15:14 yeah we dont use gitorious for anyhting any more i dont thin Sep 08 21:15:24 its all been moved to git.webosinternals.org Sep 08 21:15:44 indeed Sep 08 21:16:18 Looks like a lot of this code is adapted from another project Sep 08 21:18:08 i think it is a derivative of the example plugin available via mozilla Sep 08 21:18:23 Looks that way, a lot of it is mozilla/yahoo code Sep 08 21:19:31 NPP_HandleEvent is where i think most of the guts/brains end up being spawned from Sep 08 21:19:56 PuffTheMagic, I'm wanting to create a plugin that allows you to connect to IRC servers etc. Sep 08 21:20:08 And a mojo app that uses it to allows you to IRC from the pre. Sep 08 21:20:53 ird, what about a socketservice that just allows mojo/JS to connect to raw sockets ? Sep 08 21:21:16 I guess that would be more useful in the long run. Sep 08 21:21:18 For other apps. Sep 08 21:21:29 technically something like that could connect to the local novacom socket and get a terminal that way - so the terminalplugin wouldn't really require all the C++ stuff Sep 08 21:22:01 I'm just not a programmer (Although it's my intent to learn with this.) The only languages I've ever had much experience are all web based html\css\php Sep 08 21:22:38 there's always time to learn! Sep 08 21:23:00 Exactly, I'm just not sure where to start. Sep 08 21:23:15 services using Java are easier to write Sep 08 21:23:27 I thought that. Sep 08 21:25:18 bpadalino|work, What all would I need to learn about to write a plugin like this? Sep 08 21:25:39 I'm not exactly a linux guru or anything :p Sep 08 21:25:40 plugin or service ? Sep 08 21:25:43 er Sep 08 21:25:44 service, yeah Sep 08 21:26:42 a service - you can take a look at the other services on the webos git repo .. i believe most of them (except the battery one) is written in Java .. you will need to understand interfaces, exceptions and callbacks ... but it's a good place to start Sep 08 21:27:18 I see. Sep 08 21:27:20 Thanks. Sep 08 21:27:52 good luck Sep 08 21:28:15 What about sockets? Sep 08 21:28:19 w00t, webosboston Sep 08 21:29:14 ird, you can use google to figure out how to open up a socket on google .. Sep 08 21:29:22 erm, in java Sep 08 21:29:29 google google bing bing google .. sorry Sep 08 21:29:58 Speaking of.. Sep 08 21:29:59 http://lmgtfy.com/ Sep 08 21:30:00 :p Sep 08 21:30:17 lmgtfy.com/?q=bing Sep 08 21:30:26 i heard bing is the new way to google Sep 08 21:31:11 Meh. Sep 08 21:31:13 To each his own. Sep 08 21:31:16 I prefer google. Sep 08 21:32:32 bpadalino|work, for future reference, do browser plugins have to be C++? Sep 08 21:34:14 i am not sure it's a language thing, but it just needs to implement the NPAPI interface Sep 08 21:35:57 what about the nmomi interface? Sep 08 21:37:10 bing is good for searching porn Sep 08 21:39:04 HattCzech: for preware interface, just put suggestions on the wiki discussion page so they are public. Sep 08 21:41:55 heh - at no point did spotter tell us what version of ipkgservice he was having problems with, and at no point did anyone ask him ... Sep 08 21:48:16 ird: u dont want to do IRC as plugin Sep 08 21:48:25 ird: that is something that should be done as a service Sep 08 21:48:39 ird: and that is number 2 on my todo list Sep 08 21:49:00 ird: it could be done right now as a java service Sep 08 21:49:04 but i want to make it a C service Sep 08 21:49:27 and we need to figure out 1 more thing before we can start on that service Sep 08 21:49:44 ird: and me and oil alreayd have designs for the irc app Sep 08 21:49:47 uhh my pre just locked up Sep 08 21:50:04 nothing responding, whats the key combo to reboot? Sep 08 21:51:37 ird: and a IRC service/plugin would probably be a too big of a project to jump into to start learning C or java Sep 08 21:51:49 although i have a habbit of taking on big projects to learn with Sep 08 21:51:59 so i really have no right in saying that Sep 08 21:52:19 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/6730/preware-085-released-with-speed-enhancements/ Sep 08 21:57:37 ajames, we should think about a gstreamer page for the webOS internals wiki, or atleast added information into the video recording page Sep 08 21:57:57 looks like mashing the keys did it Sep 08 21:57:58 sigh Sep 08 21:58:08 wonder if there are crash logs Sep 08 21:59:03 In my experience, mashing keys generally fixes most problems. Sep 08 21:59:11 Robi_, /var/logs ? Sep 08 21:59:25 s/logs/log Sep 08 21:59:49 http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-go-it <- interestingly, it mentions WebOS Quick Install, Preware and PreLoad, but not fileCoaster. Sep 08 22:00:54 I like the guy that wrote that Sep 08 22:04:21 AnOutsider: ya here? Sep 08 22:07:33 zsoc: can't ssh in atm, will have to wait. Sep 08 22:08:04 Robi_, why not? also there's always novacom or usbnet. Sep 08 22:08:15 or install the terminal app from preware xD Sep 08 22:08:36 no cable Sep 08 22:08:50 ah Sep 08 22:08:57 i'm not going to spend 20 min typing on the lil keyb Sep 08 22:09:05 i have work to do Sep 08 22:09:13 lol its fun xD but i dont blame you :> Sep 08 22:09:52 Also, please someone slap me the next time i use 'lol' as punctuation, it's becoming a bad habit. Sep 08 22:17:53 hah, guys, seems 1.2 is coming out today. Sep 08 22:17:53 we already have the full changelog Sep 08 22:18:36 ~lart zsoc Sep 08 22:18:36 * infobot executes killall -TERM zsoc Sep 08 22:18:55 zsoc: just ask infobot to slap you :-) Sep 08 22:19:18 today? oooohhhhh, goodie Sep 08 22:19:51 Decimation_: do you have a time? :) haha Sep 08 22:20:30 10:57 today, GMT+12:45 timezone Sep 08 22:20:43 rwhitby, heh, thanks for the tip :) Sep 08 22:21:46 (and if you don't believe there is such a timezone, look at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=63) Sep 08 22:21:50 Decimation_, what do you mean by "have the full changelog"? Sep 08 22:22:00 I never doubt you rod. Sep 08 22:26:53 within the next hour Sep 08 22:26:53 1.2 will be released :) Sep 08 22:27:53 en0x: according to sprints site 1.2 is already out :) Sep 08 22:33:31 * rwhitby bbl Sep 08 22:35:17 cool cool Sep 08 22:36:16 does anyone here have any certifications of any sort? i found out that i can get some of them paid for and i'm wondering what's userful Sep 08 22:36:20 useful* Sep 08 22:39:08 Decimation, where is the changelog? Sep 08 22:39:41 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202049-1-2-comming-out-today.html Sep 08 22:39:42 that post Sep 08 22:39:49 but it is located on the sprint site Sep 08 22:39:58 if you go in your account, then check updates Sep 08 22:40:06 Ah Sep 08 22:40:07 Thanks. Sep 08 22:40:16 also says today is the date released. Sep 08 22:40:27 and 1.1 was released about 20 minutes from now Sep 08 22:40:31 so we'll see what happens :) Sep 08 22:40:52 Either it's coming or someone at sprint messed up, I guess. Sep 08 22:41:13 nah, palm site changed also Sep 08 22:41:13 http://kb.palm.com/wps/portal/kb/na/pre/p100eww/sprint/home/page_en.html Sep 08 22:41:17 the box on the right Sep 08 22:41:24 the one that says Palm webOS Sep 08 22:41:26 used to say Sep 08 22:41:31 Palm webOS 1.1 Sep 08 22:41:34 so they are changing stuff.. Sep 08 22:42:22 ird: so if you have an interest in contributing to the irc service or client i will most definately message you on it when we are ready to start Sep 08 22:42:34 and nothing is keeping you from making your own Sep 08 22:42:54 im just saying oil and I already have a good idea of how the mojo is gonna be Sep 08 22:42:55 Whatup webos-internals? Sep 08 22:42:56 PuffTheMagic: working on an IRC client now? Sep 08 22:43:01 Decimation: soon Sep 08 22:43:08 once i figure out subscriptions in C services Sep 08 22:43:10 that's an app i'd love. Sep 08 22:43:30 That change log is seriously non exhaustive, they missed at least a few things. Sep 08 22:43:41 once you figure out subscriptions, make that progress bar on preware possible before starting the IRC client :P Sep 08 22:43:57 Been a while since I have been able to play with my Pre the way I want to.. Had it since 06/06... Can anyone confirm or deny any issues with the patches from the git repositories? I am on 1.1 and am getting several hunk errors trying to apply some of the patches. Sep 08 22:43:57 PuffTheMagic, Sure, let me know. I'm not sure how much I can help though. I'm still teaching myself how to work with mojo etc Sep 08 22:44:25 DeCiBeL: don't both with patches, there is a new update coming out today. Sep 08 22:44:31 Preware = DA SHIZNET! I am soo happy with that. Sep 08 22:44:32 PuffTheMagic, If I wanted to go about making a simple service (just stop and start, 'start' passing a command to shell, and 'stop' acting like a ctrl+c), where would I start? Sep 08 22:44:45 1.2? Sep 08 22:44:48 or 1.1.X? Sep 08 22:44:56 ird: well once we start all the code will be on git so you can see the code and helo out as you can Sep 08 22:45:03 DeCiBeL: 1.2 Sep 08 22:45:10 zsoc: what? Sep 08 22:45:11 Awesome! Where was this info leaked from? Sep 08 22:45:22 oh Sep 08 22:45:24 the sprint site :P Sep 08 22:45:27 Ha! Sep 08 22:45:29 PuffTheMagic, I was told you're the man to ask about services. i believe the words used were "PuffTheMagic is service-making machine" Sep 08 22:45:32 I don't trust it then. Sep 08 22:45:36 zsoc: there already are services for executing arbitrary commands Sep 08 22:45:37 do you have an account on the sprint website to view your phone? Sep 08 22:45:43 you dont need to reinvent the wheel Sep 08 22:45:44 But of course Sep 08 22:45:48 I never log in there Sep 08 22:45:49 go to it Sep 08 22:45:51 No Sep 08 22:45:54 PuffTheMagic: there are? which ones? Sep 08 22:45:55 PuffTheMagic, Ah... then I guess I'll use those ;) I'll go poke about Sep 08 22:45:55 :D Sep 08 22:45:56 and hit the check for software updates button Sep 08 22:46:05 it will show you :P Sep 08 22:46:09 Sweet.. Maybe it will happen. Sep 08 22:46:12 rwhitby: what about that commander app? Sep 08 22:46:14 PuffTheMagic: we pulled the arbitrary command service. Sep 08 22:46:18 oh Sep 08 22:46:24 hehe Sep 08 22:46:25 well its still "out there" Sep 08 22:46:37 only in source form Sep 08 22:46:39 Nother question: PLEASE.. No offense to PreLoad or Filecoaster... Sep 08 22:46:41 Decimation: oh no shit Sep 08 22:46:43 hmm Sep 08 22:46:43 seems dangerous no? rather than a service that does 1 specific thing? I guess I don't fully understand how it works. Sep 08 22:46:49 But why the heck are they still devel'ing? Sep 08 22:47:02 we pulled the ipkg. and I mean *completely" pulled it (i.e. rewrote git history) Sep 08 22:47:05 ex0x: yeah, lol Sep 08 22:47:15 zsoc: yep, that's why we pulled it. Sep 08 22:47:18 Preware is leaps and bounds ahead of both, but yet they are still developing. Sep 08 22:47:31 rwhitby, could I possibly use it, or something like it, as a template for making my own service? Sep 08 22:47:34 DeCiBeL: both of those have different feature sets. Sep 08 22:47:46 zsoc: just use one of the existing services Sep 08 22:47:52 rwhitby: Aye.. But those feature sets are in Preware, No? Sep 08 22:47:54 rwhitby: I say you and preload combine :) Sep 08 22:47:54 (the source code, for a template) Sep 08 22:47:58 DeCiBeL: no Sep 08 22:48:04 I see.. I'll go find the simplest one :P Sep 08 22:48:05 (they are not in preware) Sep 08 22:48:09 I did find a bug in Preware.. Sep 08 22:48:20 rwhitby: preware needs wall paper downloads Sep 08 22:48:20 Actually 2 Sep 08 22:48:28 Decimation: PreLoad and Preware are open source, so anyone can combine the two Sep 08 22:48:30 of course 1.2 allows you to just get them off the web. Sep 08 22:48:51 Decimation: Preware is an ipkg installer. Nothing more. If a wallpaper is packaged as an ipkg, it can be installed. Sep 08 22:49:18 rwhitby, a service + cpcrook's svn app = working camcorder app. It could have been done weeks ago. Sep 08 22:49:38 I deobfuscated Filecoaster a long time ago Sep 08 22:49:48 lmao, guys, palm has a funny staff. Sep 08 22:49:49 http://www.palm.com/us/assets/images/support/detail/sidebar_webos_swu120.gif Sep 08 22:49:49 Dude that makes it got all over me about it and has been crying foul ever since. Sep 08 22:49:49 DeCiBeL, sounds immoral Sep 08 22:50:10 change the 2 to 1 and 0 to see the old images Sep 08 22:50:15 but the new one is much better :) Sep 08 22:50:17 zsoc: IN what sense? As in the word sounds funny? Or as in "don't ever do that"? Sep 08 22:50:28 so Decimation, how do you find out about this stuff ahead of time? (1.2 release and all) Sep 08 22:50:51 HattCzech: sprint site told me all i know. Sep 08 22:50:59 ahhh, where? Sep 08 22:51:06 go to your account on the site Sep 08 22:51:06 DeCiBeL, it's just not good habit. if they want to make closed-source software, that's their prerogative. as a user, just don't use it. deobfuscating is sleezy. Sep 08 22:51:10 then check for software updates Sep 08 22:51:15 Anyway.. I had an old version of Terminal installed and Preware thought it was up to date and wouldn't allow me to install/upgrade it. Sep 08 22:51:19 it will show 1.2 with a full changelog. Sep 08 22:51:31 I ended up installing it through the QuickInstall GUI Sep 08 22:51:32 hahahaahah awesome Sep 08 22:51:35 upgrading.. Sep 08 22:51:42 released today, nice Sep 08 22:51:50 But then it added a SECOND Terminal Service. Sep 08 22:51:58 HattCzech: yup Sep 08 22:51:59 zsoc: if I had a Pre, camcorder *may* have been done weeks ago ;-) Sep 08 22:52:06 * Decimation will be back in 15 minutes Sep 08 22:52:07 send/receive vcard! heheh Sep 08 22:52:20 thank god filtering in email Sep 08 22:52:50 zsoc: I completely agree. I told him: If you want to make your software completely closed source.. don't program in Java/Css/Html..... (Hint, not going to happen at this time with WebOS). Sep 08 22:53:00 DeCiBeL: I expect you didn't use -o /var when you installed it the first time. Sep 08 22:53:05 Simple reason I did it was to add a seperate sort column. Sep 08 22:53:14 rwhitby: Aye, I did. Sep 08 22:53:20 rwhitby, honestly there's almost nothing to it. just seems silly. i guess the point is, don't make an app if it's not fully featured. plus, at this point, i've tried to contact cpcrook for a week or more. i'd feel wrong using parts of his app. even if i remake an app from scratch, it'll be eerily similar to his Sep 08 22:53:42 zsoc: I don't agree. Release early, release often. Sep 08 22:54:05 zsoc: if it's open source, use it. that's what open source means. Sep 08 22:54:27 rwhitby, ok, well my awkwardness about cpcrooks progress still stands. it's like the guy did all the legwork and then vanished. I'm not so sure about the open source part, I didn't see any mention anywhere in the code about GPL or what not. I'll have to look. Sep 08 22:54:47 if it doesn't specifically say it's open source, you can't use it. Sep 08 22:55:01 all code is proprietary by default. Sep 08 22:55:08 Right, that's why I said that. Sep 08 22:55:30 * rwhitby bbl Sep 08 22:55:55 If a program is released under "GPL" it should be open-source. Sep 08 22:56:08 zsoc, yeah, that situation is tricky... Sep 08 22:56:33 i'm trying to make an app that i can hopefully sell, but i have no way of preventing people from using my code... Sep 08 22:56:45 DeCiBeL, well it wasn't *released* at all, just an SVN. I mean he put a note on the wiki it's ok to download it :P but that' about it Sep 08 22:56:56 HattCzech, then don't make it on the pre. Sep 08 22:57:13 hehehe, yeah, that's one way to do it Sep 08 22:57:16 HattCzech, or have it rely on proprietary compiled plugins and services. Sep 08 22:57:23 then it should fall under the terms & conditions of the SVN host. Sep 08 22:57:42 DeCiBeL, the point is, i don't even think the guy would mind, just can't find 'im Sep 08 22:57:59 True. Better to ask first. Sep 08 22:58:05 i haven't played with plugins or services yet, but that's an idea Sep 08 22:58:11 I would give it X days then just use it. Sep 08 22:58:16 zsoc: start the app Sep 08 22:58:23 don't release till you hear from him though. Sep 08 22:58:50 so which app are you talking about? preload or something? Sep 08 22:59:00 a video camera i believe. Sep 08 22:59:07 Decimation, hm.. and now that ajames is doing all the legwork on gst plugin building... i could take the time to make the app. Sep 08 22:59:08 ahhh Sep 08 22:59:22 zsoc: do it, it won't hurt Sep 08 22:59:41 he published all his work, i'm sure he would love to see someone make the app. Sep 08 22:59:57 Decimation, k, i'll start it a bit later. the thing is basically done. just some bug-controlling and service making. I hope making a working service isn't as difficult as i hope it's not Sep 08 22:59:58 :> Sep 08 23:00:45 until then, bbl Sep 08 23:01:02 zsoc: one more thing. Sep 08 23:01:24 Decimation: what did i hear about 1.2 being out Sep 08 23:01:27 ahh, guess i missed you. Sep 08 23:01:38 PuffTheMagic: sprint's site says its released today. Sep 08 23:01:41 its till not on opensource. or avail for OTA Sep 08 23:01:51 Decimation, nope, you got me Sep 08 23:02:18 zsoc: figure out how to access the camera preview yet? Sep 08 23:02:28 PuffTheMagic: i never said it was out Sep 08 23:02:35 i said sprint's site says its coming. Sep 08 23:02:37 Decimation, the short answer is no, the long answer is yes Sep 08 23:02:40 or maybe the other way around Sep 08 23:03:02 any brief explaination i can get? im curious. Sep 08 23:03:08 i actually kind of looked into it, briefly. Sep 08 23:04:01 Decimation: well saying that Sprint says it was releases sounds like you are saying it out :D Sep 08 23:04:21 according to sprint, it is released on 9/8/09 Sep 08 23:05:05 and thats not the dumbass customer service Sep 08 23:05:09 Decimation, will have to wait till later, really got it jet, but it involves mimicing the camera app Sep 08 23:05:12 THIS IS DA INTERWEB Sep 08 23:05:26 zsoc: i'll love to hear about it. Sep 08 23:07:55 hello, does anyone here know where to find lunaservice.h and/or other palm include files? They are required to compile some of there open source files. Thanks Sep 08 23:11:12 greg_roll, they *may* know over in #webos they deal more with the SDK, if no one is able/at keyboard to answer here Sep 08 23:11:44 greg_roll: it dont exist Sep 08 23:11:51 palm didnt give it to us Sep 08 23:11:57 huh Sep 08 23:12:09 greg_roll: im in the process of making my own lunaservice.h Sep 08 23:12:20 i have enough implemented that allows me to build a custom C service Sep 08 23:12:30 it might be enough to build libpurple-adapter Sep 08 23:12:31 idk Sep 08 23:12:34 havent tried yet Sep 08 23:12:45 but i can link against liblunaservice.so Sep 08 23:12:48 for my own servier Sep 08 23:12:49 service Sep 08 23:13:24 Zuchmir2: did that userland work out for you? Sep 08 23:15:16 PuffTheMagic: awesome, you read my mine :) i need to compile the libpurple-adapter ;) Sep 08 23:16:43 if I get the notice for the update tonight, is 'quilt pop -a' all I need to do beforehand? Anything more involved? Sep 08 23:18:28 PuffTheMagic: is there are chance you could share? Or even compile a custom libpurple-adapter from code for me? I've been working on Messenger support for the Pre Sep 08 23:18:47 i'd love a copy of lunaservice.h as well Sep 08 23:19:30 its strange to open source something but not give you all the files you need to compile Sep 08 23:19:54 that is technically against the gpl Sep 08 23:22:50 i don't know too much about the gpl but i would have to agree with you Sep 08 23:23:16 from GPLv2 part 3: complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable Sep 08 23:23:52 People need to learn wtf the term "bricking and phone" means. Sep 08 23:23:59 Is there any document that gets sent to carriers that isn't immediately leaked? Sep 08 23:24:14 chrisa: what was leaked? Sep 08 23:25:01 Just looking at engadget Sep 08 23:25:12 ajames: very good. I'll see what PuffTheMagic says about a copy of his. Maybe ill contact palm Sep 08 23:25:57 I've never even heard of prethinking Sep 08 23:26:37 oil: looks like today it really is going to come out Sep 08 23:26:40 What are people going to do if we release a new product? Will all the sites buy new domains like foobagcentral, everythingfoobag, foobagthinking? Sep 08 23:28:01 decimation if it's a popular product, won't matter, they'll buy those ;-) Sep 08 23:28:49 corq: excuse me? Sep 08 23:29:36 Doh; sorry, I scrolled up, mistook you for chrisa Sep 08 23:39:48 chrisa: we at PalmInfocenter sitting pretty in that regard. :P Sep 08 23:42:39 chrisa: that's why the "Pre" in "Preware" means "before", not anything to do with the trademarked "Palm Pre(accent)" ;-) Sep 08 23:43:09 freakout: PreCentral will just create EosCentral ... Sep 08 23:46:32 Eosware 0.8.5 Sep 08 23:46:43 rwhitby: so will you name it postware at some point? Sep 08 23:47:04 Middleware is next chrisa ;) Sep 08 23:47:09 chrisa: nope, cause it's always for software that is yet to be submitted or accepted by the official App Catalog. Sep 08 23:47:28 I should look into how that process is going to work Sep 08 23:47:47 (of course Palm will need to open up the Native SDK for some of the apps to be accepted ...) Sep 08 23:49:17 chrisa: at the moment, the process seems to be: (1) Palm checks the homebrew gallery for nice apps (2) Palm contacts the authors of those apps and asks them to submit (3) Palm reviews and asks for lots of changes (4) App finally appears in Palm App Catalog. Cycle time seems to be about a month currently. Sep 08 23:49:44 I mean the actual review once the catalog is life Sep 08 23:49:52 *live Sep 08 23:53:58 rwhitby: do the developers get and compensation? Sep 08 23:54:16 HattCzech: dunno - those details are kept private I expect. Sep 08 23:54:45 ahhh okay Sep 08 23:56:56 interesting cycle Sep 08 23:57:40 bpadalino: that is just from my observations from authors posting on PreCentral - it may hold very little relationship to reality ;-) Sep 08 23:57:59 who needs reality when you have PreCentral forums! :) Sep 08 23:58:00 holly molly this class is so booooring Sep 08 23:58:23 and redsox r playing today too Sep 09 00:13:38 Hello, I have never used irc before, but I had a question about about the "Next Steps" part of the root access procedure? Sep 09 00:13:54 just ask Sep 09 00:14:25 curious here.. should one uninstall the OSK before updating? Sep 09 00:14:51 OSK ? Sep 09 00:15:02 OnScreenKeyboard Sep 09 00:15:04 oh Sep 09 00:15:15 updating to what ? Sep 09 00:15:24 probably 1.2 Sep 09 00:15:26 from 1.1 to 1.2 (when it finally goes) Sep 09 00:15:30 i mistakenly mismatched my passwords during the initial user set up and now it says password unchanged... I have never set one up successfully so what would that password be? And how do I change the password at this point? Sep 09 00:15:34 I am currently "preparing" my device Sep 09 00:15:58 superduperpre: which step are you on? Sep 09 00:16:04 superduperpre: novacom to your pre then execute: passwd username Sep 09 00:16:12 it doesn't hurt to get rid of it ... though i don't think it would break the install of the new system .. Sep 09 00:16:26 are you currently "logged in" via RAW/novacom? Sep 09 00:16:33 I have just turned off DevMode and rebooted Sep 09 00:17:02 did you install an ssh server? Sep 09 00:17:38 decibel- if it is part of the optware quilt and associated stuff then yes I have Sep 09 00:18:26 enox, would I use novaterm like i have been or use novacom like you mentioned? Sep 09 00:18:46 superduperpre: novaterm i meant sorry Sep 09 00:18:47 superduperpre: you are on this page? http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Sep 09 00:19:19 superduperpre: do you have putty? Sep 09 00:19:31 decibel: yes I just finished this "To finish off, turn Developer Mode back to "Off" (which will reboot your Pre). " Sep 09 00:19:43 superduperpre: cool, do you have putty? Sep 09 00:20:08 I have putty as an .exe which was part of SDK... will that do? Sep 09 00:20:26 oh lord.. don't get those confused Sep 09 00:21:06 ok... thanks. Sep 09 00:21:07 PuTTY = way to "terminal" into the pre.. get a command prompt. SDK = Software Development Kit = Way to Program for the Pre. Sep 09 00:21:30 And yes, that will work Sep 09 00:21:33 I'm starting to think someone at sprint just screwed up. Sep 09 00:21:34 Sorry, I read that wrong. Sep 09 00:21:41 but the SDK did provide a putty.exe file in its folders... is that the same? Sep 09 00:21:48 Yes, that is fine. Sep 09 00:21:53 open that Sep 09 00:21:55 great! Sep 09 00:22:07 will do... one minute Sep 09 00:22:12 then you need to put in the address field the ip addressw of your pre Sep 09 00:22:17 and change the port to 222 Sep 09 00:22:24 and makes sure type is ssh Sep 09 00:22:57 ok... following the directions now... just a minute while find my ip with whatismyip Sep 09 00:23:11 that's going to give you your external IP Sep 09 00:23:23 you need your internal ip.. unless you have setup the ssh client to allow external connections Sep 09 00:23:43 and (if connected from the pre via your wifi router) you have forwarded port 222 to your pre's internal ip Sep 09 00:23:44 ok... how about "myip" the other homebrew? Sep 09 00:23:51 yes, do that one. Sep 09 00:24:08 one min... Sep 09 00:24:40 ird: That makes no sense. "Someone at sprint just screwed up".... It should read, "Someone at sprint is always screwing up.." Sep 09 00:24:46 lol Sep 09 00:24:51 i want 1.2 Sep 09 00:24:54 !!! now! Sep 09 00:24:59 Aye.. as do I. Sep 09 00:25:08 I just want to see if the laggyness of the dialer is fixed. Sep 09 00:25:22 DeCiBeL, Maybe they will screw up and send me an airrave Sep 09 00:25:24 DeCiBeL: I get this: "login as:" Sep 09 00:25:31 I just want the calendar not to take 3 hours to load a single day Sep 09 00:25:40 Example.. HORRIBLE choppyness of the scroll through the call log/address list Sep 09 00:25:44 DeCiBeL: oh the dialer was pissing me off and still is Sep 09 00:25:48 especially call log Sep 09 00:26:00 superduperpre: Ok.. type your username you made in the earlier steps Sep 09 00:26:04 press enter Sep 09 00:26:14 then type your password you tried to set it to. Sep 09 00:26:34 ird: They did screw up and sent me an airravce. Sep 09 00:26:38 airave* Sep 09 00:26:47 But it gets moody at times. Sep 09 00:26:50 "then type your password you tried to set it to." should I use the first or second one (the mismatch)? Sep 09 00:27:15 If I don't leave about 70Kbps upload available PER CALL, it gets choppy on the audio Sep 09 00:27:28 superduperpre: try both Sep 09 00:27:36 superduperpre: then try to leave it blank Sep 09 00:27:51 did you happen to do "passwd root" anytime? Sep 09 00:27:57 DeCiBeL, I have NO signal inside my house. Sep 09 00:28:05 ird: I had 1 bar with the pre Sep 09 00:28:07 if I was lucky Sep 09 00:28:08 Sometimes if I stand in the same place for 5 minutes and don't move it will get a bar. Sep 09 00:28:25 But if I move a cm the call gets dropped. Sep 09 00:28:31 decibel: both passwords were "access denied"... Sep 09 00:28:33 My lg rumor had better signal :p Sep 09 00:28:38 Where with my TP, Touch, Mogul, Q9, Q, Centro, 700wx, 700p, etc I had 4 bars Sep 09 00:29:09 superduperpre: try leaving the pw blank Sep 09 00:29:17 superduperpre: did you do "passwd root" anytime? Sep 09 00:29:23 decibel... the blank attempt doesnt work either Sep 09 00:29:25 i think that the strenght calc in webos if fcked Sep 09 00:29:38 i am not sure what "password root" is? Sep 09 00:29:57 superduperpre: you will need to enable dev mode, hook back up to the cable and start novaterm again Sep 09 00:30:12 u would be better of with webos quick install Sep 09 00:30:14 then connect via RAW method and change the pw Sep 09 00:30:28 en0x: yeah, do it that way. Sep 09 00:30:58 ok... doing it now. it will take several minutes for the rebootoing process? Sep 09 00:31:00 was the Quick Install for me to do? Sep 09 00:31:52 nah, just do it the way i said Sep 09 00:32:24 * DeCiBeL is still debating whether or not to spend the money on Classic. Sep 09 00:32:30 when you say RAW method, do you mean to repeat all the entries and steps on teh "Next Steps" wiki page? Sep 09 00:32:46 no Sep 09 00:33:00 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Portal:Accessing_Linux Sep 09 00:33:05 do the steps on that page Sep 09 00:33:12 to get back to a "command prompt' Sep 09 00:33:18 where you can set the passwd of your user Sep 09 00:33:36 ok... just connecting, and nothing more. I will chime back in once I have done that... Sep 09 00:33:51 cool, I am afk for a bit.. gotta eat Sep 09 00:34:28 THANKS for all your help and en0x!!! I will go back rhough the log of texts and try this solution Sep 09 00:36:10 passwd username Sep 09 00:36:32 oops... wrong window, Srry! Sep 09 00:36:53 username should be the username you chose when you installed the optware stuff. Sep 09 00:36:59 hehe Sep 09 00:36:59 not literally the word username. Sep 09 00:37:04 funny Sep 09 00:37:15 reminds me of "where's the any key?!?!" Sep 09 00:37:27 We were all like that at some point.\ Sep 09 00:37:33 I remember those days. Sep 09 00:37:45 indeed Sep 09 00:38:10 It just sucks that a lot of people online are assholes to you when you ask a question. Sep 09 00:38:40 arrogance doesn't get people far Sep 09 00:40:06 hahaha... too funny. "any" key. yes... n00b here for sure. working on it now... Thanks!! Sep 09 00:40:19 :) Sep 09 00:45:18 Hi... when attempting to change the passwd, I keepo getting "bad password: too weak"... what are the passwd requirements? Sep 09 00:45:20 so i think i heard some of you guys talk about having ruby on the pre Sep 09 00:45:30 .... Ruby will be available for the pre shortly Sep 09 00:45:40 in Preware Sep 09 00:45:42 :) Sep 09 00:47:07 hi how do i send a message to someone that was helping me? obviously not by clicking on their name! Sep 09 00:47:29 don't pm ppl without their permission plz Sep 09 00:47:46 ok I am so sorry... I didn't know and wont do that! Sep 09 00:47:57 what? Sep 09 00:47:59 sorry about that Sep 09 00:47:59 en0x: really? I've never some across that convention - can you educate me why? Sep 09 00:48:13 i never heard it either Sep 09 00:48:17 maybe dcc chat Sep 09 00:48:18 but not pm Sep 09 00:48:27 priv on irc omg Sep 09 00:48:28 :p Sep 09 00:48:32 /query nick Sep 09 00:48:37 well it pisses me off Sep 09 00:48:39 :P Sep 09 00:49:02 en0x... do you know if there are passwd stringency requirements? Sep 09 00:49:04 someone must be using irssi ;_ Sep 09 00:49:16 PuffTheMagic: /dcc chat and /query are different Sep 09 00:49:20 i know Sep 09 00:49:34 and i cant imagine needing to ask someone before doing a /query Sep 09 00:49:41 but maybe i could see it for /dcc Sep 09 00:49:44 why not Sep 09 00:49:47 ok time to go home Sep 09 00:49:49 lecture is over Sep 09 00:49:49 I keep getting "bad password: too weak" when I try your fix Sep 09 00:49:50 lol Sep 09 00:49:51 bbl Sep 09 00:50:05 ok... maybe not. Sep 09 00:52:05 superduperpre: make it at least 7 characters with a number Sep 09 00:52:13 and a capital Sep 09 00:52:23 roo Sep 09 00:52:24 Examp1e Sep 09 00:52:27 throw a special character in there too Sep 09 00:52:32 and make sure it's UTF8! Sep 09 00:52:34 PuffTheMagic: i was in that ruby conversation Sep 09 00:52:35 Thanks... trying now... Sep 09 00:52:46 some guy said one of hte twitter apps was using it Sep 09 00:52:49 and i proved him wrong Sep 09 00:53:00 oh no... sorry to ask but will just typing into novaterm make it UTF8? Sep 09 00:53:14 ha, ignore that comment Sep 09 00:53:29 bpadalino: your confusing the poor fella Sep 09 00:53:43 I am more ready for WTF than UTF but I am gonna keep persevering!! just a min... Sep 09 00:54:14 i am so sorry Sep 09 00:54:16 :( Sep 09 00:54:20 So, has anyone actually attempted to call Sprint Level 2 support, or Palm? Sep 09 00:55:13 root123 Sep 09 00:55:21 is not working? Sep 09 00:55:26 put a capital Sep 09 00:55:28 Root123 Sep 09 00:55:34 and taht will probably be too week Sep 09 00:55:41 weak* Sep 09 00:55:45 why does someone want to call sprint level 2 support ? Sep 09 00:55:53 no one WANTS to Sep 09 00:56:04 but I have actually had a COUPLE decent ones that knew WTF was going on. Sep 09 00:56:22 hrm .. i guess i was wonderng what the reasoning might be for calling them now ? Sep 09 00:56:45 "WTF! False advertisement! Get my update to me now, or you will have a lawsuit first thing in the morning.." Sep 09 00:56:54 oh, for the 1.2 update Sep 09 00:57:13 it happens when it happens Sep 09 00:57:22 enjoy the rest of the internals show :) Sep 09 00:59:00 bpadalino: real helpful :D Sep 09 00:59:30 yeah i suppose i am not a very helpful person tonight :( Sep 09 00:59:38 being a jerk with the UTF8 comment .. Sep 09 00:59:46 then not being irate that we don't have the update Sep 09 00:59:50 oil: ok, flags are in and accelservice has had the postinst updated to *not* do the stuff that flags should do, so we can use it to test. is there anything else we need on the service or infrastructure side? Sep 09 01:00:18 rwhitby: Flags? Sep 09 01:00:21 another field? Sep 09 01:00:38 PostInstallFlags, PostRemoveFlags. Sep 09 01:00:41 +bpandalino: on my side, I dont mind, as then I get to learn the jokes, albeit slowly!! Sep 09 01:00:44 please dont say you are gonna do what i then Eguy suggested a long time ago Sep 09 01:00:48 i dont think so Sep 09 01:00:53 :( oh god it is true Sep 09 01:00:59 superduperpre: thanks .. i still feel bad Sep 09 01:01:14 :-) Sep 09 01:01:26 rwhitby: i suggested custom install fucttions a long time ago and you wanted to maintain ipk compat Sep 09 01:01:47 lolol Sep 09 01:01:53 what a good idea you had long ago Sep 09 01:01:59 stfu Sep 09 01:02:05 its not about that i had the idea Sep 09 01:02:10 it about how it got rejected Sep 09 01:02:13 and now its being implemented Sep 09 01:02:22 Hmmm... now I am no longer getting the "weak passwd" message, it just says "cannot change passwd and gives the directory. Sep 09 01:02:26 it was found to be needed Sep 09 01:02:32 * oil wasnt part of the rejection Sep 09 01:02:36 but now its the only way preware can do it Sep 09 01:02:38 superduperpre: type "whoami" Sep 09 01:02:40 oil: why is it needed now? Sep 09 01:02:42 and tell me what it says. Sep 09 01:02:51 lets say you go to install the accell example Sep 09 01:03:06 ok decibel... almost done with e reboot... Sep 09 01:03:06 its going to say "oh, you need the service too, shal i install it?" Sep 09 01:03:08 i mean if these are special hooks for doing things like service restarts Sep 09 01:03:09 so it installs the service Sep 09 01:03:14 ok that is ok Sep 09 01:03:15 runs postinst Sep 09 01:03:19 kills the service Sep 09 01:03:23 never installs the app itself Sep 09 01:03:29 ok so that is not whati though they were at fist Sep 09 01:03:37 with the flags, we can do them after everything is done Sep 09 01:03:40 my idea was to not use posinst format at all Sep 09 01:03:48 and have custom hooks for every "type" of action Sep 09 01:03:48 oh Sep 09 01:03:58 * egaudet was for that idea too Sep 09 01:04:01 but u are doing it just for service restarts and stuff Sep 09 01:04:05 which is fine Sep 09 01:04:06 right Sep 09 01:04:11 Huh?? It says I am "root"... But I went through all the "Next Steps" and saw the optware get installed via "sh" Sep 09 01:04:13 i really need to get the upstart service working Sep 09 01:04:27 superduperpre: you are supposed to be root Sep 09 01:04:28 which means u guys that know C need to help me figure out how to do subscriptions Sep 09 01:04:39 ok... phew. Sep 09 01:04:42 they are hints for stuff which will happen on the next reboot anyway, but an installer can use the hints to make the installation process not require a reboot for services and plugins. Sep 09 01:04:48 why doesn't the ipkgservice restart services? Sep 09 01:04:59 superduperpre: are you typing "passwd username" where username is the user you created? Sep 09 01:05:08 like "passwd DeCiBeL" Sep 09 01:05:20 yes... and now trying again Sep 09 01:05:47 it says "changing password for [username]" Sep 09 01:05:47 egaudet: to properly install a service for the very first time, you need to restart java-serviceboot. unfortunately, doing that kills the messaging subsystem which is used to communicate with services. Sep 09 01:06:02 egaudet: (including ipkgservice) Sep 09 01:06:21 egaudet: I think of it like trying to change the tyres on a moving car .... Sep 09 01:06:24 are we sure that is the only way and what I meant was, why can't ipkgservice kill the service once it is done everything else Sep 09 01:06:24 Anyone good with cross compiling? I am following http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Optware_Cross_Compilation. The cs08q1armel installs correctly. But when I try and install the i686g25 version (for the emulator) it fails to install Sep 09 01:06:38 make central services that require constant communication C instead of java so they can run more like daemons and not require the 1 java process Sep 09 01:06:48 ok.. then it should ask for a password, then to confirm, right? Sep 09 01:07:03 I get "passwd: cannot update password file /etc/passwd" Sep 09 01:07:06 bpadalino: yes, that is another way to fix the problem. Sep 09 01:07:39 superduperpre: try "mount / remount,rw" Sep 09 01:07:48 egaudet: it is the only way for installation of a *new* java service, where the .jar file is not in the classpath of the java process already Sep 09 01:07:58 then do "passwd username" Sep 09 01:08:52 hrmm .. Sep 09 01:08:54 greg_roll: I use exactly that on the webos-internals autobuilder - what's the problem you are seeing? Sep 09 01:08:56 decibel, I get "mount: mounting / on remount,rw failed: no such file oy" Sep 09 01:09:03 java has dynamic classloading capabilities ... Sep 09 01:09:18 its pretty bad when my pre is saying Oye!! Sep 09 01:09:29 have we tried to figure out if we can have the ipkgservice load the new jar into the jvm without killing it ? Sep 09 01:09:35 bpadalino: cool, perhaps we can use those. Can you unload an existing class and replace it by a new one? Sep 09 01:09:50 bpadalino: you're talking to a java newbie here - no idea. Sep 09 01:09:51 good question! Sep 09 01:09:58 i'm not a pro myself Sep 09 01:10:00 ooops.. sorry superduperpre Sep 09 01:10:10 especially when it comes to the classloader Sep 09 01:10:17 and then on top of that, a custom jvm :\ Sep 09 01:10:24 trial and error will be the answer to that one Sep 09 01:10:29 superduperpre: forgot the -o.. it should be mount -o remount,rw / Sep 09 01:10:42 ok... tryingnow... Sep 09 01:10:52 bpadalino: if we can find a way to remove the need for these hint flags, I'm all for it. but the key point is that they are just hints - they should do nothing that a reboot will not automatically fix. Sep 09 01:10:53 Who does the killing of the java service right now? Sep 09 01:11:17 egaudet: at the moment, it's done in the postinst, and that's why we had to disable that in Preware. Sep 09 01:11:59 and the plan going forward is? Sep 09 01:12:30 "Password for [username] changed by root"!!! Sweet!!! Thanks so much for your patience DeCiBeL!! Sep 09 01:12:42 You are welcome. Sep 09 01:12:50 now do: mount -o remount,ro / Sep 09 01:12:50 that Preware will be able to have a dialog with the user, and do these things once at the end of the whole installation process (including dependencies) giving the user an informed choice about when their phone is going to loose it's cellular connection. Sep 09 01:12:54 then reboot Sep 09 01:12:59 rwhitby: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javatips/jw-javatip70.html - some information java classloading using jars ? Sep 09 01:13:02 +rwhitby: when i run "cd i686g25; make directories ipkg-utils toolchain" on ubuntu 9.10 i get the following error Sep 09 01:13:04 Can you give me a link to learn about what I just did so I can educate myself? Sep 09 01:13:07 Now you should be able to login to your Pre through Putty and SSH Sep 09 01:13:10 cannot stat '/optware/i686g25/toolchain/build/targets/i686-unknown-linux-gnu/build/build-libc-headers/gnu/lib-names.h': No such file or directory Sep 09 01:13:14 greg_roll: ah, we use 8.04 on the autobuildr Sep 09 01:13:35 superduperpre: It used to be in the old wiki.. but the sh scripts all do it for you. Sep 09 01:13:47 rwhitby: oh ok no worries, i will give that a go! thanks once again :) Sep 09 01:13:58 What you did was set the root filesystem (/) into ReadWrite mode (so you can change the files). Sep 09 01:14:04 rwhitby, is preware going to stay open and wait for re-contact with ipkgservice to inform the user that it is done? Sep 09 01:14:19 Then you change the password for "username" which echos information the the /etc/passwd, /etc/shadow, etc files Sep 09 01:14:23 greg_roll: 8.04 server with build-essential and curl should just about do it I think. Sep 09 01:14:34 egaudet: that's up to oil to determine whether it's possible ;-) Sep 09 01:14:37 then you set the root filesystem (/) back into ReadOnly mode Sep 09 01:14:46 decibel: OK... good toknow! Thanks so much, I was doing great until that fiasco! Thanks for getting me on my feet again... I appreciate it. Sep 09 01:14:57 no problem Sep 09 01:15:09 rwhitby: thanks. I will build up a VM right now. would 8.04 workstation be ok? or do I need server? Sep 09 01:15:13 egaudet: the good news is that i've been able to work out how to get the upstart script to retry the launch, and predictably get the service back up and running. Sep 09 01:15:27 must be possible to just call any routine in ipkgservice and once it returns you know services are back up. Sep 09 01:15:38 retry what launch? Sep 09 01:15:41 greg_roll: workstation is fine too - I just use server on the autobuilder to keep the size of the VM down and not have too many unknown dependencies. Sep 09 01:15:54 egaudet: doesn't ipkgservice set a state file? Sep 09 01:16:00 Ok folks... so excited now. I am off to go get my root on! Thanks again for all the help... I can't wait until I can contribute something to the community! By now... Sep 09 01:16:01 why not just stat the statefile? Sep 09 01:16:18 egaudet: the launch of the service Sep 09 01:16:30 oh nice Sep 09 01:16:44 egaudet: without doing respawn in the upstart script, which I believe is the cause of the reported slowdowns Sep 09 01:17:08 egaudet: I used the Palm CustomizationService upstart script as an example of how to do it properly. Sep 09 01:17:13 don't most services set a statefile?? .. in /var/run.. Sep 09 01:17:34 the slowdowns occur because something is killing the java process and it's re-starting ... at least that is my hypothesis Sep 09 01:17:38 so you can tell if a service is started by just stat'ing that file. Sep 09 01:18:06 DeCiBeL: it's a java service. the upstart script only tries to launch it, the state of the upstart job does not always reflect the running status of the service. Sep 09 01:18:14 i've had a couple times when preware would say the service is not running (even though it was) - slowdown occurs/phone goes dead ... then it works when re-run Sep 09 01:18:27 rwhitby: Ahh.. I didn't know it was a java service. Carry on. Sep 09 01:18:32 rwhitby: thanks :) Sep 09 01:18:38 bpadalino: my hypothesis is the respawn in the upstart scripts (which we've removed now for ipkgservice and accelservice) Sep 09 01:18:48 interesting Sep 09 01:19:01 bpadalino: you'll see lots of respawn messages in /var/log/messages when it happens. Sep 09 01:19:46 Did precentral take a break? Sep 09 01:19:51 bpadalino: at least that was one symptom I saw and think I have cured. there may well be other symptoms I don't see on the emulator. Sep 09 01:21:03 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=blob;f=upstart/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice is my latest recommendation for java service upstart scripts. Sep 09 01:21:34 at worst, it retries every 10 seconds, so should not slow down a phone even in erroneous conditions. Sep 09 01:21:49 So what is postinst doing nowadays? Sep 09 01:21:57 and only retries for a maximum of 20 times, but usually gets it on the first try. Sep 09 01:22:28 wow! you weren't lying when you said messages got flooded Sep 09 01:22:31 that was insane Sep 09 01:22:31 INSANE Sep 09 01:22:45 egaudet: all the other stuff :-) Sep 09 01:23:07 egaudet: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=blob;f=control/postinst Sep 09 01:23:38 egaudet: or http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/accelservice.git;a=blob;f=control/postinst for a minimal java service postinst Sep 09 01:24:20 I still haven't fully tested whether that needs an initctl start in it, or whether the upstart script depending on java-serviceboot will be enough. Sep 09 01:24:52 things seem to work fine at the moment, but of course I can't test on a real phone. Sep 09 01:25:03 got my new phone today! only to find out it came broken :( Sep 09 01:25:17 !! Sep 09 01:25:41 brand new phone was sent to me to replace my old one and it is broken Sep 09 01:25:46 dang Sep 09 01:26:13 EvanDotPro: wb Sep 09 01:27:07 :) thanks. good to be back... i've had an insane couple of weeks. hopefully i'll be able to spend more time in here again though. things are settled down a bit. Sep 09 01:28:45 bpadalino: so does the respawn theory fit what you are seeing? Sep 09 01:29:05 yeah - and it seems to suck up a ton of resources and go nuts .. Sep 09 01:29:14 maybe i should download my messages log and see what exactly happened Sep 09 01:32:03 wth Sep 09 01:32:44 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202049-1-2-comming-out-today-9.html#post1878640 Sep 09 01:32:48 I DONT SEE AN UPDATE Sep 09 01:33:28 Decimation: me either Sep 09 01:33:34 and I have been hitting refresh a lot Sep 09 01:33:36 Decimation: Day isn't over, it's 6:33 Palm time. Sep 09 01:33:59 is that just a photoshop job? Sep 09 01:34:13 since what the last one was 21MB and it was 1.1? Sep 09 01:34:30 oh yeah Sep 09 01:34:33 that is photoshopped Sep 09 01:34:38 you can tell the 1.2 is darker than the 0 Sep 09 01:34:46 and the 7 is darker than the 1 Sep 09 01:34:59 it's a horrible job Sep 09 01:35:02 yeah Sep 09 01:35:35 rwhitby: 2009-09-09T01:20:27.513648Z [33719] castle user.crit java: Java heap full, exiting VM. Sep 09 01:35:58 that starts the problem Sep 09 01:36:07 DeCiBeL: nice catch :) Sep 09 01:36:16 :D Sep 09 01:36:17 bpadalino: interesting. a cause or just a symptom of some other cause? Sep 09 01:36:34 rwhitby: seems to be the cause .. let me paste the relevant information Sep 09 01:37:50 lol Sep 09 01:37:57 yeah decibel =p Sep 09 01:38:26 tharris- hinted to it.. but I proved it. ;) Sep 09 01:38:32 LOL Sep 09 01:38:41 i thought it was obvious =p Sep 09 01:38:46 I am SICK of eMule. I need a better mp3 search agen. Sep 09 01:39:11 people still use emule? Sep 09 01:39:24 rwhitby: http://pastie.textmate.org/610474.txt?key=25b7gaqxdjppuq13dc1sw - what's your take ? Sep 09 01:39:37 Rumormills seem to be going full bore this week Sep 09 01:39:55 chrisa, hows your Pixie, huh ? Sep 09 01:40:02 oil: I haven't downloaded music in ages. I just went with my old faithful.. Sep 09 01:40:02 fashionable? Sep 09 01:40:08 bpadalino: a big email? Sep 09 01:40:16 rwhitby: a big email ? Sep 09 01:40:18 oil: gotta better recommendation? Besides actually paying the .99/song? Sep 09 01:40:31 bpadalino: what is a pixie? Sep 09 01:40:31 bpadalino: PowerdActivityStart: (com.palm.mail.imap.ImapTransport-imapsync Sep 09 01:40:37 bpadalino: just before the VM fills Sep 09 01:40:44 torrents Sep 09 01:40:56 blah.. i on;y need individual songs Sep 09 01:41:08 I guess I cuold search for the album then just select the song Sep 09 01:41:15 rwhitby: i didn't get an email at that time ... Sep 09 01:41:17 I have a bunch of albums missing 1 or 2 songs Sep 09 01:41:38 bpadalino: Palm got the crash report - I'm sure they'll let us know if Preware is at fault ;-) Sep 09 01:42:20 did they take the crash report or did u send it to them Sep 09 01:42:33 tharris-: rdxd: Creating report for Java OOM : java : java OOM Sep 09 01:42:40 yeah Sep 09 01:43:49 i'll see if i can get it to crash again Sep 09 01:43:59 What was all this talk about services i missed when i was gone? Sep 09 01:49:02 next time it crashes, i'll get the message log .. Sep 09 01:50:41 did not see any security changes in those update notes.... Sep 09 01:52:11 does it make me an elitest if i think that webos installer is cheating? Sep 09 01:52:19 rwhitby: another interesting line ... Sep 09 01:52:22 rwhitby: 2009-09-09T01:20:48.953284Z [33741] castle user.notice root: org.webosinternals.ipkgservice upstart: returnVal is ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returnValue":false,"errorCode":-1,"errorText":"Launch helper exited with unknown return code 0"} Sep 09 01:52:26 i want 1.2 :/ Sep 09 01:53:11 bpadalino: is that after the VM crashed? Sep 09 01:53:17 bpadalino: is that with ipkgservice 0.8.6 ? Sep 09 01:53:18 yes, but i think after it came back up .. Sep 09 01:53:27 not with 0.8.6 - but with the one right before it i believe Sep 09 01:53:42 bpadalino: you should see a later line where it matches and restarts ipkgservice successfully Sep 09 01:54:11 Zuchmir2: ping Sep 09 01:54:17 indeed, after another one or two failures .. Sep 09 01:54:22 it says 1, then 2, then done Sep 09 01:54:38 rwhitby, was that naughty arbitrary code service called "prelease"? Sep 09 01:55:52 bpadalino: good - it's working as designed then. Sep 09 01:57:08 0.8.5 for the service Sep 09 02:01:58 oh, if you have problems with webosdoctor, remove/reinstall novacom and restart the service Sep 09 02:02:01 just helped me :) Sep 09 02:02:03 lol, apparently engadget posted that fake 1.2 picture Sep 09 02:02:15 then shortly after deleted the article ;) Sep 09 02:03:19 Hey guys Sep 09 02:03:45 does anyone know why I can not subscribe to a particular service Sep 09 02:03:47 for example Sep 09 02:03:48 luna-send -n 1 'palm://com.palm.telephony/radioDebugSet' '{"subscribed":"true"}' Sep 09 02:03:50 returns Sep 09 02:03:55 ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returnValue":true,"errorText":"","errorCode":0,"subscribed":false} Sep 09 02:06:02 * rwhitby posts http://www.precentral.net/prepping-your-pre-webos-12-remove-those-tweaks#comment-23503 to give the facts of tweaks and the 1.2 update Sep 09 02:06:10 schulman: try luna-send -n 1 'palm://com.palm.telephony/radioDebu Sep 09 02:06:19 rwhitby: noticed the addition to the packaging standards Sep 09 02:06:22 i like :) Sep 09 02:06:33 what is the difference? Sep 09 02:06:41 greg_roll: it looks similar Sep 09 02:07:17 sorry it got cut off Sep 09 02:07:24 zsoc: there have been a number of services with root escalation exploits. org.webosinternals.services has been pulled (including completely removing the ipkg from all git history) due to it. early versions of com.pregame.prelease (before Jason rewrote it to restrict the operation for the flashlight app) also were at fault. Sep 09 02:07:37 luna-send -n 1 'palm://com.palm.telephony/radioDebugSet' '{subscribe:true}' Sep 09 02:07:38 rwhitby: i prefer a doctor anyway :) Sep 09 02:07:44 rwhitby, how does WOSQI apply/remove patches? Sep 09 02:07:54 zsoc: ah, i see you are back in, my explaination awaits :) Sep 09 02:07:55 ahh Sep 09 02:07:58 the ol' subscribe Sep 09 02:08:00 not subscribed Sep 09 02:08:11 schulman: when you subscribe, you will also need to give a number greater than 1 for the -n option. Sep 09 02:08:18 yeah Sep 09 02:08:21 I am looping now Sep 09 02:08:26 I think I need to do enable:true too Sep 09 02:08:37 BOOM Sep 09 02:08:46 I guess typing subscribe was the problem Sep 09 02:08:48 by the way Sep 09 02:08:54 anyone interested in some INTENSE radio stats Sep 09 02:08:55 Decimation, i'll trade you for teaching me how a service works ;) or pointing me to the source of one of the simpler services to look at Sep 09 02:09:04 try setDebugRadio Sep 09 02:09:12 sorry Sep 09 02:09:14 radioDebugSet Sep 09 02:09:15 egaudet: WOSQI uses a very laborious line-oriented manual "patch" process. it does not use patch or quilt. Sep 09 02:09:24 it is query they use in ##DEBUG# Sep 09 02:09:39 which gives you a ton of information about the radio, more than I ever ever seen any EVDO card give Sep 09 02:09:39 Whhhhat Sep 09 02:10:10 I'm going to boldly state that there will be 0 problems removing patches (specifically virtual keyboard) using patch after update Sep 09 02:10:40 It has so much more information than palm://com.palm.telephony/signalStrengthQuery Sep 09 02:11:01 but everyone should still remove it before updating :D Sep 09 02:12:44 rwhitby: re your posts ... the only tweak that i can see being problematic are tweaks which traverse multiple applications ... but i can't think of any that do that ... on-screen keyboard modifies the mojo framework, but the whole framework would be re-installed Sep 09 02:12:59 i tend to think 1 and 2 will be the norm .. and 3 probably won't happen Sep 09 02:13:32 bpadalino: agreed, but Palm could easily change the way they do updates without our knowledge until after the fact ... Sep 09 02:14:00 bpadalino: since I know they have a pre-update generic script execution capability built-in Sep 09 02:14:23 is that often used with ipkgs ? Sep 09 02:14:29 bpadalino: in fact, they even have provision to be able to update the libipkg.so binary as part of an update, and have the rest of the update use the new library. Sep 09 02:14:46 interesting Sep 09 02:14:47 bpadalino: no, this is palm specific update process stuff, wrapped around the ipkg stuff. Sep 09 02:15:00 I don't even think multi-app tweaks would be a problem if using gnu patch Sep 09 02:15:21 bpadalino: they would use that pre-update script capability, for example, for repartitioning. Sep 09 02:15:32 I'm gonna do some testing Sep 09 02:15:40 I just realized today that the reason we dont have msn or yahoo transports in messenger/synergy is probably due to the fact that they dont offer open protocols Sep 09 02:15:41 ah - gotcha Sep 09 02:15:51 and that its sad that it took me this long to catch this Sep 09 02:16:02 egaudet: agreed - they way we (webosinternals) are doing stuff is designed to fail-safe. unfortunately, others are not following our lead ... Sep 09 02:17:01 bpadalino: BTW, shame on you for having org.webosinternals.shell still on your device - just waiting for a rogue app to own you? Sep 09 02:17:13 indeed Sep 09 02:17:17 but it didn't happen !!! Sep 09 02:17:23 i was disappointed :( Sep 09 02:17:26 not yet .... Sep 09 02:17:36 i kept waiting for "PrePwner" to come to the webosinternals feed Sep 09 02:17:38 but it never came Sep 09 02:17:48 * rwhitby has been considering writing a "vulnerability detector" for the Pre Sep 09 02:18:04 heh, "PreOwned!" would be another amusing name for a pre app Sep 09 02:18:05 what would u even be looking for Sep 09 02:18:10 even as an ebay/craigslist app Sep 09 02:18:14 hey that is my conference paper name! Sep 09 02:18:22 ohnoes! Sep 09 02:18:30 tharris-: existence of org.webosinternals.services or org.webosinternals.shell is the easiest one to detect. Sep 09 02:18:32 * egaudet hates not being able to update package manager service through preware Sep 09 02:18:42 tharris-: calling 'ls' through com.pregame.prelease is the next one Sep 09 02:18:45 I thought I used to be able to Sep 09 02:18:53 rwhitby, as in an IDS, or file check type? Sep 09 02:18:54 It's all Aunt Minnie's fault! Sep 09 02:18:57 greg_roll: would there be any reason why a luna-send works, but when I try to do this.controller.serviceRequest to do the same thing, it fails? Sep 09 02:18:58 egaudet: oh, you need to look in the source for the secret code Sep 09 02:18:59 welll i have other ideas =p Sep 09 02:19:13 greg_roll: do I have to set up a "private" dbus instance? Sep 09 02:19:26 i just need an update emu or a phone :/ Sep 09 02:19:28 srevice or preware source? Sep 09 02:19:44 acydlord: just a simple one that checks for known vulnerabilities - nothing sophisticated. Sep 09 02:19:50 egaudet: not telling ;-) Sep 09 02:20:53 anyone familiar with browser plugin here? why I can not get pen up (down) event in NPP_HandleEvent (already got key events)? Sep 09 02:22:30 egaudet: FYI, Jason is working on replacing the existing WOSQI manual patching with patch or quilt. Sep 09 02:22:45 he's been getting advice from me about how to use quilt Sep 09 02:23:00 "/// TODO: should we sanitize the filename so it's not '/etc/passwd'"<-- i think this is my favorite comment in the whole of webOS Sep 09 02:23:21 schulman: sorry i dont know. I'm sure someone here would know Sep 09 02:23:21 forget quilt Sep 09 02:23:40 quilt is a command line patch management, I don't believe we have any use for it behind the gui Sep 09 02:23:45 if I just finished rooting and setting up Next Steps and /etc/shells files should I stay away from WOSQI now... are the processes incompatible? Sep 09 02:23:47 egaudet: yeah, I told him to look at what you are doing for the virtual keyboard Sep 09 02:23:55 in the terminal I send: luna-send -n 10 'palm://com.palm.telephony/radioDebugSet' '{enable:true, subscribe:true}' Sep 09 02:24:09 superduperpre: processes are compatible - just don't do the same patch/tweak in both Sep 09 02:24:52 great! Thanks... I am going all manual now! Sep 09 02:25:11 this.controller.serviceRequest( 'palm://com.palm.telephony',{ Sep 09 02:25:11 method: 'radioDebugSet', Sep 09 02:25:12 parameters: {enable:'true', subscribe:'true'}, Sep 09 02:25:12 onSuccess: function(response) { Sep 09 02:25:12 callback(true, "success", response.extended); Sep 09 02:25:12 }, Sep 09 02:25:14 onFailure: function(response) { Sep 09 02:25:16 callback(false, "failure", ""); Sep 09 02:25:17 STO Sep 09 02:25:18 } Sep 09 02:25:18 P Sep 09 02:25:20 }); Sep 09 02:25:24 Woops Sep 09 02:25:26 sorry Sep 09 02:25:30 that is very much my bad Sep 09 02:26:25 http://pastebin.com/m294318fa Sep 09 02:27:27 Sorry, I have the flu, not thinking straight Sep 09 02:27:42 schulman: I hate it when that happens Sep 09 02:28:35 egaudet: I think Jason is just using quilt so he can manage the creation of updated patches himself. Sep 09 02:29:32 Seriously, landscape for any app requiring input has got to come. Sep 09 02:30:33 I don't get it, I thought patch creators managed the updates of patches? Sep 09 02:31:34 egaudet: well, anyone can do an update for 1.1 to 1.2 if they know what they are doing - especially for the simpler patches in the modifications repo. Sep 09 02:32:04 oooh he's going to handle the 1.2 updating Sep 09 02:32:14 egaudet: if Jason is doing that for the patches he has imported into WOSQI, I'll be very happy if he updates the patch repo at the same time, and have invited him to do so. Sep 09 02:32:34 schulman: i know when i deved Prebrew sometimes I had to change parameters: {enable:'true', subscribe:'true'}, to either parameters: {enable:true", subscribe:"true"}, Sep 09 02:32:41 or remove the quotes entirely Sep 09 02:32:42 (since he's getting a nice donation stream for using the patches we've collated from the community) Sep 09 02:32:46 We need patch support Sep 09 02:32:50 in preware Sep 09 02:33:15 greg_roll: yeah, boolean arguments are different from string arguments Sep 09 02:33:30 ok let me try Sep 09 02:34:18 thanks rwhitby explained it much better :) Sep 09 02:34:27 bbs lunch time, good luck! Sep 09 02:34:38 let me give it a try Sep 09 02:35:16 if I did '{enable:true, subscribe:true}' on the command line, then I would assume they are boolean Sep 09 02:38:49 egaudet: dont make me slap you for talking about patches in preware beyond in ipks Sep 09 02:38:59 egaudet: he is gonna suck up all his time maintaining patches Sep 09 02:39:08 he wont be able to do anything else Sep 09 02:39:33 there is no maintaining patches in preware Sep 09 02:39:38 there is patch support in preware Sep 09 02:39:43 PuffTheMagic: it's a living, if the donations are rolling in at a fast enough rate Sep 09 02:39:51 egaudet: "patch" support Sep 09 02:39:55 patch and patch -R Sep 09 02:40:16 egaudet: you keep forgetting, patches will collide and touch the same files Sep 09 02:40:26 do a simple dry run, if they don't apply, don't install and say bye Sep 09 02:40:33 :/ Sep 09 02:40:53 or someone refreshes the patch to make it work Sep 09 02:41:00 which is what he is gonna be doing Sep 09 02:41:01 all the time Sep 09 02:41:09 who refreshes the patch? Sep 09 02:41:33 if we never install a patch that conflicts, how is there a problem? Sep 09 02:41:51 There are very few current patches that conflict, but there are many useful patches Sep 09 02:42:05 so right now it will eb easy Sep 09 02:42:22 but as more patches come in Sep 09 02:42:29 large patches Sep 09 02:42:32 not just uncomments Sep 09 02:42:37 there will be issues Sep 09 02:42:53 and the patch creators can handle them Sep 09 02:43:50 i hate when i forget to reset my scrollback Sep 09 02:43:52 They are going to have to be handled anyway, whether we have preware support patches or not Sep 09 02:44:00 egaudet: yeah, we're going to improve Preware's error reporting so that people clearly know when to talk to the Preware developers and when to talk to the ipkg maintainer. Sep 09 02:44:42 egaudet: you cant make the assumption that devs are gonna work together to make sure their patches are compat Sep 09 02:44:57 PuffTheMagic, I am not making that assumption. I am saying that is NOT preware's problem Sep 09 02:45:04 just perfomed the " wiki/Blocking_Updates " commands via root in novaterm... so hopefully I can wait and see what is affected before dealing with the 1.2 fallout!! Sep 09 02:45:15 and any users who have problems with conflicting patches can talk to the patch creators, not preware developers Sep 09 02:45:22 egaudet: i know its not preware's problem, rwhitby said Jason was gonna be updating patches Sep 09 02:45:38 since someone over there is making a quilt patch manager or something Sep 09 02:45:41 manager installer Sep 09 02:45:42 But to completely not support patches in the on-device gui is a major mistake IMO Sep 09 02:45:55 egaudet: we already do as ipks Sep 09 02:46:04 PuffTheMagic: no, Jason is just using quilt himself - it's not in a tool Sep 09 02:46:10 and there is exactly 1 patch as ipk right now Sep 09 02:46:26 Note to self, running grep on the entire root recursively will cause the phone to heat up Sep 09 02:46:27 rwhitby: yeah but what is he gonna do with all those patches one hes refreshes them? Sep 09 02:46:51 egaudet: and? nothing is stopping devs from making more... Sep 09 02:46:58 PuffTheMagic: I've asked him to push them back to the gitorious.org modifications repo Sep 09 02:47:00 except they aren't... Sep 09 02:47:00 zsoc: we've all done that Sep 09 02:47:11 And there are a lot of .patch files out there Sep 09 02:47:26 and PreLoad will be able to install them eventually if not soon Sep 09 02:47:32 zsoc: It'll also make the device reboot sometimes Sep 09 02:47:49 there will not be much incentive for patches as ipkgs Sep 09 02:47:50 lmorchard, good to know, oh quiet shadow in the corner, glad i got your attention :) Sep 09 02:47:56 rwhitby: that reminds me, what exactly was pimpmypre talking about with an easier way to install patches.. Sep 09 02:48:07 Lurking is my M.O. Sep 09 02:48:18 egaudet: we could get the autobuilder to automatically create ipkgs from .patch files .... Sep 09 02:48:22 lmorchard: any idea why it reboots? Sep 09 02:48:23 lmorchard, then you've seen me make a fool of my self on a regular basis ;) Sep 09 02:48:30 Decimation_: no idea. Sep 09 02:48:31 Why does everything have to be ipkg Sep 09 02:48:33 i had that happen during a 'sync' once Sep 09 02:48:43 Hmm, not sure about sync Sep 09 02:48:48 forget I said that Sep 09 02:48:55 but I think a grep might touch something under /dev that doesn't like being read Sep 09 02:49:01 egaudet: Preware is not gonna be some monolithic swiss army knife jack of all trades apps Sep 09 02:49:04 autobuilding .patch into ipkg is ok Sep 09 02:49:04 * lmorchard talks straight out of his anus Sep 09 02:49:18 zsoc: ping Sep 09 02:49:30 PuffTheMagic, I thought that was the point so that preware would be able to install everything from simple mojo apps to advanced homebrew apps Sep 09 02:49:44 other apps start using ipkgservice and have patch support, that leaves exactly what incentive for users to use preware? Sep 09 02:50:23 Users want a one-stop-shop... period Sep 09 02:50:33 and that's what they'll use Sep 09 02:50:55 * lmorchard wants a pony Sep 09 02:51:05 unicorns that fart rainbows!! :D Sep 09 02:54:22 greg_roll: It is a "Permission Denied" error Sep 09 02:54:58 greg_roll: do I have to do something to the application to give it permission to access these things Sep 09 02:55:12 be within the com.palm namespace ? Sep 09 02:55:30 yeah Sep 09 02:55:37 com.palm.telephony Sep 09 02:55:40 oh Sep 09 02:55:42 I have to be within it Sep 09 02:55:50 interesting Sep 09 02:55:56 egaudet: f' one-stop-shop they are on a linux box now... little single use apps ftw! Sep 09 02:56:03 bpadalino: can I temporarily join it? Sep 09 02:56:07 :) Sep 09 02:56:12 lol dream on PuffTheMagic Sep 09 02:57:24 egaudet: (not to take away the work ony our oskb) i really dont care about winning the hearts of aunt minnies by installing patches for them Sep 09 02:57:33 bpadalino: yeah you are right Sep 09 02:57:37 we really dont need those types of users Sep 09 02:58:23 you only want to support people who know what they are doing, which is a tiny minority Sep 09 02:58:35 i dont want to support anyone really Sep 09 02:58:43 lol I know you don't Sep 09 02:58:48 and you don't have to Sep 09 02:58:52 i want to make useful stuff i want to use and like Sep 09 02:58:57 but for an app like preware, that's already the direction Sep 09 02:58:59 and if other people use it on the way then all tbe better Sep 09 02:59:30 bpadalino: Yep, changing the namespace fixed it, great call Sep 09 02:59:50 egaudet: here is the thing... ipk's for patches are superior Sep 09 02:59:51 why? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 09 02:59:56 2009