**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Sep 12 02:59:56 2009 Sep 12 03:01:01 I have, what is, in fact, i am sure, an absolutely, ridiculous, obscene, and ignominious question, that i'm certain if i thought really hard, i would figure out the answer to. Sep 12 03:01:42 A chrooted environment, generally speaking, has similar access to hardware (/dev) that the root environment does, assuming the chroot is set up properly? Sep 12 03:03:07 yes Sep 12 03:03:14 Thank you :) Sep 12 03:03:27 if /proc and /dev are setup properly Sep 12 03:04:04 indeed that i'm certain of :) Sep 12 03:07:20 hi Sep 12 03:07:47 * zsoc peers at seigex Sep 12 03:15:04 whee. downloading 10.6.1 now. Sep 12 03:15:14 woops wrong window Sep 12 03:15:42 * oil is intrigued Sep 12 03:15:47 yeah i'm curious now Sep 12 03:16:12 oh, probably the new mac os update Sep 12 03:16:14 * oil googled 10.6.1 and it came up with a bunch of macos Sep 12 03:16:15 yeah Sep 12 03:16:23 * oil is bored now Sep 12 03:16:27 i remember someone making fun of that yesterday, the .1 thing Sep 12 03:16:31 lol Sep 12 03:16:44 oil, well i'm reconfiguring 0.10.21 now, if that interests you Sep 12 03:16:52 a little Sep 12 03:17:07 im working on 0.9.1 of blocked Sep 12 03:17:14 then getting back to 0.8.6 of preware xD Sep 12 03:17:18 oil, you made blocked? Sep 12 03:17:22 yeah Sep 12 03:17:43 who was that clownhat that made "blocked car"? Sep 12 03:17:49 lol Sep 12 03:17:50 no clue Sep 12 03:17:56 I like your version :) Sep 12 03:18:08 me too xD Sep 12 03:18:10 What's on the whiteboard for 0.8.6? Sep 12 03:18:28 postinst/prerem flags Sep 12 03:18:33 so we can get dependencies working Sep 12 03:18:44 so if you try to install myflashlight for example Sep 12 03:18:46 hey, i was just asking about that Sep 12 03:18:50 it autoinstalls the flashlight service as well Sep 12 03:18:54 rod is so vague sometimes ;) Sep 12 03:19:01 but we need to get postinst/prerem flags working first Sep 12 03:19:09 or dependencies arent possible Sep 12 03:19:17 btw ever since I upgraded to 0.8.5 of preware, the service seems to keep crashing Sep 12 03:19:17 but, they're in the feed, just waiting for me to actually use them Sep 12 03:19:18 xD Sep 12 03:19:24 It will be nice once useful optware stuff is available. You can install apps that force install services that force install opt-ported cli apps, right? Sep 12 03:19:26 really? Sep 12 03:19:44 zsoc: right Sep 12 03:19:52 jauderho: can you get us a copy of your /var/log/messages? Sep 12 03:20:54 jauderho: WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND SOMEONE WITH THE CRASH PROBLEM Sep 12 03:20:59 oil, so, in theory, you're almost up-engineering cli applications for everyday pre usage :) I need think of some really useful cli app to build a service for... Sep 12 03:21:01 thank you for checking in. Sep 12 03:21:05 no worries Sep 12 03:21:12 ESPECIALLY ONE IN ALL CAPS Sep 12 03:21:16 I was about to reboot to get 10.6.1 installed Sep 12 03:21:17 can you get us your /var/log/messages Sep 12 03:21:19 hold on Sep 12 03:21:21 first Sep 12 03:21:23 let me log into the pre Sep 12 03:21:23 please Sep 12 03:21:28 pretty please? Sep 12 03:21:32 in all caps ? Sep 12 03:21:35 with sugar on top? Sep 12 03:21:39 (((Which I point out got his attention))) Sep 12 03:21:50 * oil hopes messages has something useful in it xD Sep 12 03:22:11 what do I need to grep for? Sep 12 03:22:34 * zsoc knows so many grep jokes, that makes him chuckle Sep 12 03:22:41 lol Sep 12 03:22:42 can you just grab the entire file and either email it or pastebin it? Sep 12 03:22:47 sure Sep 12 03:22:50 yeah the whole thing Sep 12 03:22:52 >> is your friend Sep 12 03:22:53 the pre has been behaving oddly Sep 12 03:23:00 jauderho: webosinternal would be a start, if there is other confidential stuff in it Sep 12 03:23:07 I just got a call 5 mins ago Sep 12 03:24:23 jauderho: what would be good is to rm /var/log/messages, then reboot, then send it immediately after the first sign of a problem. Sep 12 03:24:27 http://webos.pastebin.com/m3d75388d Sep 12 03:25:25 yo zsoc Sep 12 03:25:26 I can only paste that right now. Sep 12 03:25:33 gf just showed up and I have to go to dinner Sep 12 03:25:37 or she will kill me Sep 12 03:25:44 back in an hour or so Sep 12 03:25:44 thanks jauderho Sep 12 03:25:58 * zsoc exits with unknown return code 0; Sep 12 03:26:01 seigex, yo? Sep 12 03:26:26 rwhitby: the PoweredActivityStart is right before th app starts talking to the service Sep 12 03:26:30 to keep the phone awake Sep 12 03:26:40 oil: right Sep 12 03:26:43 and PoweredActivityEnd is where its done talking or its closed Sep 12 03:26:48 or 15 mins passes Sep 12 03:26:54 so the question is why is line 27 happening Sep 12 03:27:04 yeah Sep 12 03:27:06 ive never seen that Sep 12 03:27:33 this is a grep webosinternals of the log Sep 12 03:27:38 yeah Sep 12 03:27:50 we need the bit between lines 26 and 27 Sep 12 03:28:02 maybe he can rm it and try to get it to happen again when hes done eating Sep 12 03:28:08 then send the complete file Sep 12 03:28:28 stupid girlfriends, always stopping us from figuring out what's inbetween lines 26 and 27 Sep 12 03:28:50 lol Sep 12 03:29:55 haha Sep 12 03:30:01 and more Sep 12 03:30:33 so the only thing which could cause the ipkgservice upstart goal to change from stopped to start is if java-serviceboot is started. Sep 12 03:31:10 and it says "start on started hidd" Sep 12 03:31:23 which says "start on stopped finish" Sep 12 03:31:42 which says "start on stopped dbus_session" Sep 12 03:31:58 which says "start on stopped dbus_system" Sep 12 03:32:10 which says "start on stopped configure" Sep 12 03:32:21 "start on stopped bootmisc" Sep 12 03:32:31 "start on stopped networking" Sep 12 03:32:50 http://filebin.ca/cuvohe Sep 12 03:33:16 c-c-c-combo breaker! Sep 12 03:33:57 nice Sep 12 03:34:03 that needs to go on the wiki Sep 12 03:34:07 xD Sep 12 03:34:13 ends up at "start on stopped updater ok" Sep 12 03:34:13 xD xD Sep 12 03:34:26 zsoc: nice one Sep 12 03:34:44 rwhitby, i try Sep 12 03:34:45 lol Sep 12 03:36:20 ok, so the Palm Updater runs, and it triggers start java-serviceboot, and that causes ipkgservice to check again whether the service is up. Sep 12 03:37:02 lines 36, 37, 38 are the three tries that it makes while it is waiting for the messaging services to come back up. Sep 12 03:37:24 note that ipkgservice itself does not restart anything. Sep 12 03:37:59 I suppose the question is, why does it only happen on some pres? Sep 12 03:38:14 this seems to happen hourly in the log we've got Sep 12 03:38:23 does the palm updater run hourly? Sep 12 03:38:55 rwhitby, sounds right, i remember your buddy mentioning something like that in his privacy article Sep 12 03:40:58 eno: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=optware/nano/Makefile - repackaging optware for Preware. Sep 12 03:41:53 rwhitby, er.. nano is all set, right? Sep 12 03:42:04 zsoc: yep Sep 12 03:42:23 rwhitby, we got some sort of... order, set up for this project? or just taking suggestions? Sep 12 03:42:47 zsoc: but I need to update optware bootstrap to add the path for terminal for aunt minnie Sep 12 03:42:57 zsoc: there's a thread on PreCentral for suggestions Sep 12 03:43:14 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 12 03:44:42 any mojo developers in here? Sep 12 03:44:53 no Sep 12 03:44:53 since the other room is quiet Sep 12 03:44:58 of course not Sep 12 03:45:10 * oil may be able to answer a question Sep 12 03:45:29 * Templarian thinks patience padwan Sep 12 03:45:30 i'm just going out of my fucking mind from this stupid audio object Sep 12 03:45:38 no such thing Sep 12 03:45:39 oh Sep 12 03:45:46 it wont instantiate Sep 12 03:45:48 i havent played with the audio thing Sep 12 03:45:52 i heard its a bitch though Sep 12 03:46:03 the thing is i'm lookin gat the source of that new music program Sep 12 03:46:17 and i'm doing pretty much what they do in a round about way Sep 12 03:46:29 but this.audioPlayer = new Audio(); crashes the program Sep 12 03:46:33 heh Sep 12 03:46:37 doesn't make sense Sep 12 03:46:38 lol Sep 12 03:47:47 sigh Sep 12 03:47:50 * seigex shoots himself in the temple Sep 12 03:48:13 * Templarian draws cool chalk siloute. Sep 12 03:49:18 hmmm .. not much of a crime scene Sep 12 03:49:43 * zsoc puts up yellow tape Sep 12 03:49:50 cop: "it appears he was trying to find whats between lines 26 and 27" Sep 12 03:51:02 oil, ha, forced meme time Sep 12 03:51:03 seigex: as much as I hate saying what I am about to say, my technique in this situation is to do EXACTLY what they other guy did, character for character line for line Sep 12 03:51:06 and make THAT work Sep 12 03:51:08 haha Sep 12 03:51:13 and _then_ change things one line at a time. Sep 12 03:51:23 litterally Sep 12 03:51:26 one line at a time Sep 12 03:51:34 the audio thing is an ABSOLUTE BITCH Sep 12 03:51:39 and I gave the hell up Sep 12 03:51:48 well its already got a demotivational poster Sep 12 03:51:52 thats like meme step 1 Sep 12 03:52:07 but really, the first thing is to do it EXACTLY like the successful one did. Sep 12 03:52:24 Uh, dumb question is this NaNplayer your talking about? Sep 12 03:52:40 because he had to run in com.palm namespace for him to be able to do what he did.... Sep 12 03:52:42 oil, 1.) go to 2ch.us, 2.) open each board, one by one 3.) post motivational poster in each one 4.) sit in a park and wait till you hear some teenager say it 5.) ???? 6.) profit Sep 12 03:53:38 its only funny here though Sep 12 03:53:45 Are there any docs about that com.palm.* namespace thing? Sep 12 03:54:12 oil, it's only funny here _now_, people will *make* it funny other places. meme's dont need to make sense. scene kids prove this. Sep 12 03:54:21 lol Sep 12 03:56:38 rick, well the problem is that he uses alot of ajax to get all his details and i had to bypass that for the time being .. but for the most part i am :) Sep 12 03:57:12 and btw.. if you want to make your own playlist.. figure out the ajax, pull some json from their site and you can get a list to all the m4a links and titles of all the songs from that player :D Sep 12 03:57:19 not that i did that or anything Sep 12 03:57:43 <-- lays back down in the chalk line Sep 12 03:57:56 damnit i reinstalled the sdk and now palm-package wont work Sep 12 03:58:12 * oil goes to subway, brb Sep 12 03:59:00 <-- just ordered pizza hut Sep 12 03:59:03 mmm pizza n beer Sep 12 04:01:42 pizza and dos equis ftw Sep 12 04:03:14 oil: I'm about to go to subway to get lunch! Sep 12 04:03:50 subways in au? Sep 12 04:05:04 MOTHERT FUCKER Sep 12 04:05:11 mmm subway Sep 12 04:05:17 the services example works Sep 12 04:05:25 i guess i'm just a douchebag Sep 12 04:05:26 seigex, hey, i dont' know about webos, but in webos-internals we don't like the profanity Sep 12 04:08:11 zsoc: +1 Sep 12 04:08:59 oil: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1888277&posted=1#post1888260 has a preware javascript error in the log file attached. Nothing to do with the restarting, but though you might like to see it. Sep 12 04:12:35 bbl Sep 12 04:13:08 oh well.. sorry i don't remember internals being a family-friendly room back at the start Sep 12 04:13:14 damn the sonic boom was loud Sep 12 04:13:28 and since i've never been to the webos room aside from today.. i wouldn't know if they are either Sep 12 04:15:31 seigex: we got a lot of 12 and 14 year old programmers, and this is a publicly logged channel Sep 12 04:16:58 thats cool.. i just didn't remember it being an issue back in the day.. i'll refrain from it Sep 12 04:23:04 subway is delicious Sep 12 04:23:54 and Sep 12 04:24:04 that javascript error shouldn't have happened Sep 12 04:24:14 he tried to start preware while it was open Sep 12 04:24:18 but it shouldnt have errored Sep 12 04:28:20 is there such a thing as a dev for rent? Sep 12 04:29:16 Checkers update should be coming soon Sep 12 04:29:23 Already submitted Sep 12 04:30:28 hello Sep 12 04:30:47 Hello Guest65825! Sep 12 04:31:04 Im trying to get some help Sep 12 04:31:21 Me too Guest Sep 12 04:31:26 I need some help Sep 12 04:31:37 What kind? We offer all sorts of help. Sep 12 04:31:49 I need a pixi Sep 12 04:31:55 lol Sep 12 04:31:59 I just got a palm pre about a week ago, and have been trying to get my mandriva linux machine to recognize the device but the novacomd keeps giving me an error message Sep 12 04:32:01 Eguy is here to help people with mental issues Sep 12 04:32:08 Oh Sep 12 04:32:10 * Eguy nods Sep 12 04:32:11 Pre Issues Sep 12 04:32:20 What's a Pre kesne? Sep 12 04:32:25 is anyone here familiar with mandriva linux and how to get this to work Sep 12 04:32:28 Uh, we don't talk about WebOS in here. Sep 12 04:32:35 jk jk Sep 12 04:32:37 Alright Sep 12 04:32:46 Can you tell us the error? Sep 12 04:32:58 Error messages would be nice Sep 12 04:34:28 And if there are none, just try hitting your head on the computer in frustration, usually helps. Sep 12 04:34:28 novacom_usb_rx_thread:326: error reading packet, shutting down, rc: -1 Sep 12 04:34:48 Well, it seems that it is having an issue reading a packet. xD Sep 12 04:35:04 sorry was trying to get it but was in the wrong terminal Sep 12 04:35:15 Alright Sep 12 04:35:20 Eguy: any guess Sep 12 04:35:33 while your up... Sep 12 04:35:40 hmm Sep 12 04:35:47 I used alien to convert the deb package into rpm and did not get any errors Sep 12 04:35:50 I have a packet you can borrow if you want Sep 12 04:35:52 then installed it Sep 12 04:35:59 I'm not a linux user Sep 12 04:36:01 the rpm was fine? Sep 12 04:36:04 So I wouldnt know :/ Sep 12 04:36:20 and then when I run it thats all I get Sep 12 04:36:38 running that message indefinetely Sep 12 04:37:20 My only guess is something happened with the rpm Sep 12 04:37:29 it's crashing midway Sep 12 04:38:27 I also tried converting the deb package as a tar.gz but there is not a way to compile the file or anything of the sort Sep 12 04:39:19 Im quite intrigued the reasoning behind palms choice, why they did not release the packages as tar.gz so that everybody would be able to make use of it Sep 12 04:40:06 Eguy: are you asking people what a pre is again? Sep 12 04:40:07 I think it is a tar.gz Sep 12 04:40:08 Eguy: jerk Sep 12 04:40:19 destinal: don't call me a jerk Sep 12 04:40:21 :P Sep 12 04:40:32 destinal: I am just trying to get some answers here Sep 12 04:40:32 nah, it was an imperitive verb Sep 12 04:41:21 yo destinal Sep 12 04:41:26 seigex: hey Sep 12 04:42:20 destinal, you ever get a chance to play with the usb cable? Sep 12 04:43:10 seigex: yeah Sep 12 04:43:29 seigex: I was able to get the chipset into OTG mode and get it to power my device with my A cable Sep 12 04:43:33 but no enumeration :( Sep 12 04:43:35 nice Sep 12 04:43:41 thats a big step tho.. i need to get that damn cable Sep 12 04:43:50 err sorry cussed again :) Sep 12 04:44:01 heh, no worries. get the damn cable. :) Sep 12 04:44:22 destinal, if you can power it on.. then it supports otg mode :) its a matter of having the drivers installed to run the device Sep 12 04:44:25 what were you trying to use? Sep 12 04:44:30 or plug in Sep 12 04:44:46 if its a thumbdrive you need to insmod usb-storage.ko Sep 12 04:45:36 why am i having such a PITA problem with webos Sep 12 04:45:43 seigex: well I plugged in a usb hub Sep 12 04:46:05 seigex: and since the system already has a built-in usb hub I figured it would recognize Sep 12 04:46:23 but lsusb doesn't show it, which it should even if no drivers Sep 12 04:46:30 same with flash and keyboards Sep 12 04:46:33 nothing in lsusb Sep 12 04:47:20 PuffTheMagic thinks it's something wrong with the composite device Sep 12 04:47:51 can you guys stop spamming the channel please? Sep 12 04:48:36 Eguy: you're a downer Sep 12 04:48:43 hahahhaha Sep 12 04:48:49 Eguy: have a pixie yet? Sep 12 04:49:00 destinal: It's in the mail Sep 12 04:49:24 It's pixi but that is ok Sep 12 04:49:28 Eguy: wonder if it outruns the proverbial "check" Sep 12 04:49:40 pixie's the codename, so good enough also Sep 12 04:49:48 Oh no! someone just stole it Sep 12 04:49:51 oh well.... Sep 12 04:50:01 just like touchstone is codenamed "puck" Sep 12 04:50:10 and pre is codenamed castle Sep 12 04:50:10 hahahhaa yes Sep 12 04:50:27 the pre is codenamed laggy, not enough memory p100 Sep 12 04:50:45 Eguy: it's a fast CPU, it's the OS that's a hog Sep 12 04:50:51 destinal.. u much of a JS programming? Sep 12 04:50:53 programmer* Sep 12 04:50:58 seigex: no, not really Sep 12 04:51:11 I muddle through when needed Sep 12 04:51:14 Luna is a resource whore Sep 12 04:51:21 a dirty dirty hog Sep 12 04:51:38 hmmm Sep 12 04:52:16 * Eguy is watching landing replays...those guys are amazing pilots Sep 12 04:52:17 Lol, I should make the topic: Luna is a ... dirty dirty ... resource whore Sep 12 04:52:26 hahaha Sep 12 04:52:57 no surprise...it's java isn't it? Sep 12 04:53:05 rwhitby: idk why he got that error, i dont get it here Sep 12 04:53:11 hemna: no, written in c++ Sep 12 04:53:12 that javascript error that is Sep 12 04:53:12 Java is built in yes Sep 12 04:53:22 Not all java though Sep 12 04:53:34 Java is used in the services backend, I don't think any of the frontend code is java Sep 12 04:53:43 javascript != java Sep 12 04:53:52 oh wrong convo Sep 12 04:53:57 seigex: lol Sep 12 04:54:03 <-- drinking Sep 12 04:54:04 don't mind me Sep 12 04:54:06 seigex: there's a lot of java in the backend Sep 12 04:54:07 lol Sep 12 04:54:13 ah ok...luna is the webkit wrapper then Sep 12 04:54:29 hemna: Luna is the entire GUI, but yeah, it's based on webkit Sep 12 04:54:57 the LunaSysMgr binary has like 40 linked .so's Sep 12 04:55:09 destinal.. yeah i misread the convo :) Sep 12 04:55:09 uses lots of code from lots of places Sep 12 04:55:28 LunaSysMgr then? Sep 12 04:56:33 LunaSysMgr is the majority of "Luna" and basically the binary that does the GUI, yeah Sep 12 04:58:04 http://webos.pastebin.com/m3aafc350 Sep 12 04:58:11 well no $#%$ Sep 12 04:58:25 my whole problem i was having is because i didn't add Audio.js framework to the main html page Sep 12 04:58:33 i spent about 9 hours tryin gto get it to work Sep 12 04:58:39 God I love being a programming Sep 12 04:58:42 seigex: dog Sep 12 04:58:43 programmer* Sep 12 04:58:49 s/og/oh/ Sep 12 04:58:50 destinal meant: seigex: doh Sep 12 04:58:56 haha Sep 12 04:59:06 wait.. still don't know if its gonna work or not Sep 12 04:59:08 a programming dog? Sep 12 04:59:21 rwhitby: on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. Sep 12 04:59:32 especially a programming dog Sep 12 04:59:32 yea Sep 12 04:59:39 <--- a programming nothing right now Sep 12 04:59:42 goosh. lots of .so's Sep 12 05:00:34 rwhitby: I have a programming dog Sep 12 05:01:32 * rwhitby attempts to recompile iTerm to fix the meta key problem with emacs in snow leopard ... Sep 12 05:02:17 rwhitby: how IS snow leopard anyhow? I hear a lot of vaguely negative reviews Sep 12 05:02:28 destinal: it is crap Sep 12 05:02:44 rwhitby: the problem with emacs is the G4 cpu Sep 12 05:02:54 * rwhitby ignores egal Sep 12 05:03:42 destinal: I waited for .1, and it seems fine. No bugs that I have encountered yet. The emacs thing is actually a reasonable behaviour (meta key is doing i18n instead of ESC+) Sep 12 05:04:08 s/dog/snow leopard/ Sep 12 05:04:14 * Eguy thinks rwhitby always ignores me Sep 12 05:04:35 rwhitby: does it add anything worthwhile? Sep 12 05:04:48 I like the pre-app expose Sep 12 05:04:54 * destinal used to have a hackintosh a while back. Sep 12 05:04:55 s/pre-app/per-app/ Sep 12 05:04:55 rwhitby meant: I like the per-app expose Sep 12 05:04:56 64bit support Sep 12 05:05:05 well Sep 12 05:05:10 enhanced 64bit Sep 12 05:05:20 and the apps have been ported to coco Sep 12 05:05:26 instead of rosetta Sep 12 05:05:37 SL seems good to me Sep 12 05:05:40 no problems Sep 12 05:06:07 and it feels a lot snappier Sep 12 05:06:47 hmm Sep 12 05:06:52 geist: cool, I may buy it a copy and put it on some spare (farily modern) x86 hardware. Sep 12 05:06:53 It froze on me the other day Sep 12 05:06:53 destinal: thats not that many .so :D Sep 12 05:07:26 I'll put it this way: SL is ok if it was what leopard was, it is not an upgrade of any sort Sep 12 05:07:28 I use linux for a desktop usually but OSX is one of the better unix GUI's IMO Sep 12 05:07:33 not worth paying for Sep 12 05:07:37 I need to recompile my patches to KeyRemap4MacBook which map FN to Control_L, Option_L+FN to FN, and Command_L to Option_L (except when with TAB and BackQuote) Sep 12 05:07:45 meh, $29 Sep 12 05:08:07 the same as win 7 is what vista should of been Sep 12 05:08:15 but 7 is worth paying for Sep 12 05:08:20 just not $200-400 Sep 12 05:08:40 destinal: there is no gdb for the pre is there? Sep 12 05:08:48 I used to be the go to guy for tech support for my friends but I'm slowly forgetting windows stuff, thankfully :P Sep 12 05:08:56 i thought we shipped with gdb on the pre Sep 12 05:09:04 the minicore thing uses it for a backtrace Sep 12 05:09:27 i need to double check Sep 12 05:09:36 all os's should be free like linux Sep 12 05:09:44 Eguy: ++ Sep 12 05:09:53 you should be able to use what ever you want Sep 12 05:10:00 you buy the computer, you choose the os Sep 12 05:10:01 Eguy: you can use what ever you want Sep 12 05:10:11 its just not all free ;) Sep 12 05:10:15 all software should be free in fact Sep 12 05:10:35 well thats why i use linux Sep 12 05:10:38 developers need to eat Sep 12 05:10:38 all mine is :D Sep 12 05:10:39 * punzada nods Sep 12 05:10:52 * Eguy will drink to this conversation Sep 12 05:11:08 geist: yeah, pre ships with gdb Sep 12 05:11:24 6.8 Sep 12 05:11:28 i could see us remove it at some point Sep 12 05:11:35 we use it to do backtraces Sep 12 05:11:42 but its pretty expensive for that purpose Sep 12 05:12:23 i think the newer version of glibc that we may switch to eventually has proper unwind support Sep 12 05:14:01 I was surprised how rich the webos userland is by default. not sure how much of that is just stock OE and how much added Sep 12 05:14:31 a bit of both Sep 12 05:14:32 where can i go to find It Sep 12 05:14:54 (pm etc) Sep 12 05:15:15 how do i use gdb if i need to pass my app args Sep 12 05:15:46 ahh i go t it Sep 12 05:16:01 yeah, its a bit weird Sep 12 05:17:21 Checkers Pro Sep 12 05:17:24 Will be very nice Sep 12 05:17:44 I'm not paying for your louse apps kesne Sep 12 05:17:47 :P Sep 12 05:17:50 kesne: but when do we get Checkers Business and Checkers Ultimate? Sep 12 05:17:57 lousy* Sep 12 05:18:10 * rwhitby now has a working iTerm/emacs combination again, thanks to https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2857326&group_id=67789&atid=518975 Sep 12 05:18:15 Haha Sep 12 05:18:16 omg Sep 12 05:18:21 They arent lousy Sep 12 05:18:22 that security thread made me cry Sep 12 05:18:23 oh yes Sep 12 05:18:26 sourceforge Sep 12 05:18:27 19000 downloads Sep 12 05:18:31 oh yes nebula Sep 12 05:18:35 nebula1: a beauty, wan't it? Sep 12 05:18:38 we talked about that earlier Sep 12 05:18:42 security thread? Sep 12 05:18:44 i just submitted a reply Sep 12 05:18:51 we need norton for webos Sep 12 05:19:00 punzada: it was on @webosinternals twitter Sep 12 05:19:03 psh, i dont even want clamwv ;p Sep 12 05:19:08 We sould write an antivirus app for the pre. Sep 12 05:19:09 clamav* Sep 12 05:19:14 a paid antivirus app Sep 12 05:19:18 hahah yes Sep 12 05:19:18 port clam over Sep 12 05:19:20 norton disk doctor Sep 12 05:19:21 it doesn't have to _DO_ anyting Sep 12 05:19:23 as well as chkrootkit Sep 12 05:19:24 ;P Sep 12 05:19:26 it just CLAIMS to do somthing Sep 12 05:19:28 Rick_home: I was going to write a known vulnerability reporter ... Sep 12 05:19:28 and demands money Sep 12 05:19:38 donate the pointless money to rwhitby's pre fund Sep 12 05:19:51 Rick_home: all it needs to do is spot org.webosinternals.services and com.pregame.prerelease ... Sep 12 05:20:07 woahhhhhhhhhh Sep 12 05:20:11 ok... that entire reply i just wrote is gone... the forums are dead Sep 12 05:20:12 zing for rwhitby Sep 12 05:20:46 must be the 1.2 release that killed the forums Sep 12 05:20:59 aaaand they're back Sep 12 05:21:10 yay my post made it Sep 12 05:21:12 ive managed to avoid synching my facebook so far, if i use friendsflow is it going to synch? Sep 12 05:21:19 nope Sep 12 05:21:26 rwhitby: check my wikipedia link at the end Sep 12 05:21:49 so slowww Sep 12 05:22:06 nice! tin foil hat Sep 12 05:22:29 this thread needed more tin foil hats Sep 12 05:22:53 it needed more closed Sep 12 05:22:57 nebula1: I personally wouldn't allow a node on the internet with a root password accessible to ssh ... Sep 12 05:22:58 and delete Sep 12 05:23:30 nebula1: security thread? Sep 12 05:23:41 rwhitby: that's what the thread focuses on, though Sep 12 05:23:52 so, with that... they still have to brute force in Sep 12 05:23:54 OH NOES WEBOS VIRUS! Sep 12 05:23:56 rwhitby: you spent way too much time on your reply in that thread btw.... Sep 12 05:24:01 destinal: https://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/3922981826 Sep 12 05:24:31 Eguy broke precentral Sep 12 05:24:35 rawr Sep 12 05:24:44 I did, I did Sep 12 05:24:49 destinal: don't read it, just go to the last post and make a tin foil hat Sep 12 05:25:10 T3CK is an idiot Sep 12 05:25:31 because I can access my computer, some web site must be able to also Sep 12 05:25:45 right. Sep 12 05:25:50 i HAD to reply Sep 12 05:26:05 yay, arguing on the internet Sep 12 05:26:08 it's called exploits, people... they exist. people FIX them Sep 12 05:26:22 geist: special oly.... bah nevermind Sep 12 05:26:23 arguing on the internet ftw! Sep 12 05:26:28 nebula1: well, they're called vulnerabilities Sep 12 05:26:41 nebula1: and yeah, they exist and have existed. not unique to webos Sep 12 05:26:44 destinal: /me edits post. Sep 12 05:26:55 which is why i pointed at generalizing Sep 12 05:27:05 what Sep 12 05:27:10 how did I double post Sep 12 05:27:10 * destinal does security for a living Sep 12 05:27:32 so people like this make me angry with their disinformation and FUD Sep 12 05:27:35 social engineering is prevented with tin foil hats Sep 12 05:28:10 people that wear tinfoil hats are easier to social engineer from my experience Sep 12 05:28:26 when did the tin foil hat meme begin? Sep 12 05:28:29 remind me Sep 12 05:28:52 destinal: good call with the :%s/exploits/vulnerabilites/g Sep 12 05:28:59 someone was bound to troll me Sep 12 05:30:20 and others besides the ipkg email one have existed, and palm has been fairly quick to fix them AFAIK Sep 12 05:30:28 okay I posted Sep 12 05:30:32 you guys drew me in Sep 12 05:30:34 though they've done it pretty quietly Sep 12 05:30:51 Eguy: and double posted, at that Sep 12 05:30:52 ! Sep 12 05:31:07 I deleted the second one Sep 12 05:31:21 ya i know just messin Sep 12 05:31:33 I did at first though Sep 12 05:31:33 research was done and found that the tin foil would actually just act as antennas to PROJECT your thoughts to the government Sep 12 05:31:38 because the server is overloaded Sep 12 05:31:40 im using a clicky keyboard Sep 12 05:31:42 * nebula1 grabs his tin foil hat and goes to bed Sep 12 05:31:45 ibm model M Sep 12 05:32:10 Pliers: noooo Sep 12 05:32:22 * Eguy goes in the 1940's backyard bunker Sep 12 05:32:33 * nebula1 builds one Sep 12 05:33:07 * Pliers goes in the 1940s and punches wife Sep 12 05:33:15 hah Sep 12 05:33:23 rwhitby: jhoff replied with more info Sep 12 05:33:23 that actually made me laugh Sep 12 05:34:06 gah - snow leopard has an 'echo' which no longer supports -n Sep 12 05:34:10 i hate when people incorrectly apply the term hacker Sep 12 05:34:23 yes Sep 12 05:34:26 Eguy: from your signature, you've been through way too many palm devices ;p Sep 12 05:34:44 i should file to trademark the term hacker Sep 12 05:34:45 I know Sep 12 05:34:49 palm has all my money Sep 12 05:34:57 then if i see someone missusing it i can fine them Sep 12 05:35:03 and they give me crappy buggy devices to thank me Sep 12 05:35:11 but enough about the 700p Sep 12 05:35:19 haha, i think palm/sprint snatched all the rest of my spending money for the year Sep 12 05:35:20 lol Sep 12 05:35:31 I still can't bring myself to buy a touchstone Sep 12 05:35:34 seems like such a waste Sep 12 05:35:40 rwhitby: isn't echo usually a shell builtin? Sep 12 05:35:46 it is so awesome z0r1111oneone!! Sep 12 05:35:54 or you mean /bin/echo specifically? Sep 12 05:36:32 i'm still planning to build my own touchstone Sep 12 05:36:35 punzada: I thought so originally, but I really like it Sep 12 05:36:51 acydlord: sonicare mod? Sep 12 05:37:00 * Eguy agrees with destinal Sep 12 05:37:00 eguy thats a good idea Sep 12 05:37:12 destinal: Makefiles use /bin/sh, not /bin/bash Sep 12 05:37:13 i actually have a space colgate brush when i bought a few on sale for $6 Sep 12 05:37:19 spare^ Sep 12 05:37:21 when I first got the Pre I said NO WAY I am going to buy a puck and now I have 2 Sep 12 05:37:34 the matte back is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better Sep 12 05:37:40 but, why not spend 1/5th the price on just ... a usb cable? ;x Sep 12 05:37:49 rwhitby: hmm.. my /bin/sh still has echo as a builtin Sep 12 05:37:51 odd Sep 12 05:37:55 does plugging something in really that much of an invoncience? Sep 12 05:38:01 i mean the tech is cool but seems kinda pointeless Sep 12 05:38:05 pointless* Sep 12 05:38:22 not completely pointless Sep 12 05:38:34 hmm, looks like my sh is a symlink to dash though Sep 12 05:38:44 plugging and unplugging the usb cable will cause stress on the port and cause it to break over time Sep 12 05:38:58 fair enough Sep 12 05:39:07 and with the touchstone you can have something on your desk or night stand you just toss your phone onto Sep 12 05:39:16 no need to roll up your cable and disconnect it Sep 12 05:39:29 destinal: ok, it works on the command line, but seems to fail in the Makefile, let me do some more digging before making rash judgements. Sep 12 05:39:40 although I have to say, props to palm for including those silver dots letting you know the correct orientation of the cable, can't tell you how many times I would go the opposite way on my last phone Sep 12 05:39:49 it does get H O T after charging though Sep 12 05:39:59 mine gets hot with the regular charger, quite hot Sep 12 05:40:25 I was streaming the shuttle landing while I was driving today and my pre got so hot I couldn't touch it, I had to leave it in the passenger seat Sep 12 05:40:28 acydlord: plus it's held at a good angle and the gecko feet / nanotube stuff and magnets work great, and the back alone is worth it IMO Sep 12 05:40:40 yeah, i could probably cook my breakfast on my phone when charging it Sep 12 05:41:02 the thermal control on the pre is a HUGE F- IMO Sep 12 05:41:02 destinal i'm too poor to afford the touchstone Sep 12 05:41:12 worse than an apple laptop Sep 12 05:41:20 Eguy, i know, they should have included a case fan =x Sep 12 05:41:24 the stock backplate *creaks* Sep 12 05:41:25 ugh Sep 12 05:41:37 * ashi__colo bought 3 touchstones Sep 12 05:41:47 I hate the stock backplate Sep 12 05:41:50 I've heard of this, I haven't removed it to look at the battery because mine still feels pretty solid Sep 12 05:41:51 I tried using it Sep 12 05:41:52 home, work, and car Sep 12 05:41:55 destinal: yes it does, the matte one should be included Sep 12 05:41:58 I'm so used to my touchstone Sep 12 05:42:02 destinal i actually ordered a mat of that gecko sticker stuff awhile back Sep 12 05:42:14 i have it stucl on random things for custom mounts Sep 12 05:42:44 I love that sticker pad bottom thing Sep 12 05:42:54 I need to get a touchstone for my car Sep 12 05:43:29 are they using neodium or iron-ferride magnets in the touchstone? Sep 12 05:43:50 okay I'm back Sep 12 05:43:54 I don't have a place for a puck in my car Sep 12 05:44:06 destinal: it's weird - "echo -n" in the Makefile doesn't work, but "/bin/echo -n" does Sep 12 05:44:14 if peeps still want to debug preware Sep 12 05:44:24 Eguy, you have a windshield dont you? Sep 12 05:44:25 rwhitby: to me that means the shell builtin may be defective Sep 12 05:44:31 acydlord: they use depleted uranium for the touchstone Sep 12 05:44:37 haha Sep 12 05:44:46 rwhitby: I'd try manually running /bin/sh Sep 12 05:44:49 and then echo -n blah Sep 12 05:44:56 destinal: ah, yes. that fails too. Sep 12 05:45:05 acydlord: It's illegal to mount things on your windshield in california Sep 12 05:45:10 So it looks like Snow Leopard has taken the hard line on echo -n in /bin/sh Sep 12 05:45:22 Eguy, as it should be everywhere Sep 12 05:45:31 did the original bourne shell lack -n? Sep 12 05:45:57 it should be illegal to drive in LA unless you actually can Sep 12 05:46:04 I could make a movie on all the shitty drivers here Sep 12 05:46:47 * rwhitby wonders what the easiest way is to determine running on MacOSX vs Linux in a python script ... Sep 12 05:47:02 Eguy, they did make a movie, it was called Mad Max Sep 12 05:47:19 all this mention of OSX is making my skin burn Sep 12 05:47:37 yeah but that was australia Sep 12 05:47:51 a country that isn't as developed as modern ones like america Sep 12 05:47:53 Escape from LA then Sep 12 05:47:56 rwhitby uname ? Sep 12 05:48:07 did oil leave? Sep 12 05:48:21 rwhitby: you could just ECHO=`which echo` and $ECHO -n whatever or alias echo=`which echo` Sep 12 05:48:41 that should avoid the builtin and work on any platform Sep 12 05:49:02 no i didnt Sep 12 05:49:24 destinal: I just hard-coded /bin/echo in the Makefile Sep 12 05:49:28 (for the -n cases) Sep 12 05:49:47 * rwhitby continues to ignore egal Sep 12 05:49:50 heh, but what if i don't use /bin? Sep 12 05:49:51 okay Sep 12 05:49:55 heh, ok, I think you're safe Sep 12 05:49:58 so what lines do you want from the log Sep 12 05:50:10 i'm back from din-din with the gf Sep 12 05:50:14 rwhitby always ignores me Sep 12 05:50:21 I'm used to it :( Sep 12 05:50:22 jauderho: http://filebin.ca/cuvohe Sep 12 05:50:55 jauderho: zsoc whipped that one up for us :-) Sep 12 05:50:59 rwhitby: lol Sep 12 05:51:05 LOL Sep 12 05:51:08 ROFLMAO Sep 12 05:51:26 * destinal doesn't get it. in-between likes 26 and 27?' Sep 12 05:52:01 jauderho: zsoc posted it within 7 minutes of you leaving. Sep 12 05:52:15 * destinal reads scrollback Sep 12 05:52:19 brb going to watch F1 Sep 12 05:52:50 well no irc on the pre means I missed that part earlier Sep 12 05:52:55 but just scrolled back Sep 12 05:53:05 jauderho: so we need the full log between lines 26 and 27 in the grep webosinternals you pasted Sep 12 05:54:23 jauderho: we believe that the palm updater running hourly is someone causing your java-serviceboot to restart. Preware's Package Manager going offline is a symptom on that, not a cause. Sep 12 05:55:05 let me look Sep 12 05:55:20 jauderho: jhoff80 on PreCentral is seeing similar stuff: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=post1888260 Sep 12 05:55:23 TIP: do not ctrl-z less message on the pre Sep 12 05:55:43 oops: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1888260 Sep 12 05:58:10 * punzada just found the 'soundboard' app Sep 12 05:58:19 this shall be fun when out with my friends Sep 12 05:58:29 as much fun as the fart app? Sep 12 05:58:43 * oil is actually shocked there is only one in homebrew and none in the catalog Sep 12 05:58:44 really Sep 12 05:58:44 i am Sep 12 05:58:53 maybe they're waiting till they can charge Sep 12 05:59:00 so the answer to my python question before is "sys.platform" Sep 12 05:59:11 what about this java problem? Sep 12 05:59:14 oil: ooh - a price war on fart apps ... Sep 12 05:59:40 okay. this is taking a while to cut and paste Sep 12 05:59:41 hold on Sep 12 06:04:18 what I wanna know is why is there so much damn fearmongering in the pre community Sep 12 06:04:36 is the pre the phone of choice for ludites? Sep 12 06:04:49 fearmongering? Sep 12 06:05:20 acydlord: I blame aunt minnie Sep 12 06:05:36 poor aunt minnie Sep 12 06:05:37 she's pure evil Sep 12 06:06:49 okay Sep 12 06:06:55 here is the pastebin Sep 12 06:06:56 http://webos.pastebin.com/dbb2453a Sep 12 06:07:29 looks like I had a reboot Sep 12 06:08:51 "user.err powerd: LIBPOWERD: g_strescape: assertion `source != NULL' failed" can't be good.. Sep 12 06:09:22 I've also been having some strange gcal issues. Sep 12 06:10:32 not sure why there is the need for the pubsubservice to run/fail Sep 12 06:10:59 jauderho: so was the reboot at line 791 intentional? Sep 12 06:11:13 probably. Sep 12 06:11:28 I've been trying to fix the oreo issue so took the battery out. Sep 12 06:11:41 I dont remember a unscheduled reboot Sep 12 06:13:03 the one that seems to start at line 364 Sep 12 06:13:57 jauderho: ok, so what's the Preware behaviour that you are reporting during this log timeframe? Sep 12 06:14:07 well I've been doing orange+sym+r Sep 12 06:14:14 so I try to bring preware up Sep 12 06:14:18 it either hangs Sep 12 06:14:26 or complains that the service is not running Sep 12 06:14:33 huh Sep 12 06:14:37 so its a service problem? Sep 12 06:14:37 cause to me that log just looks like a normal reboot, and then it takes some time for the system to come up and the package manager service to start. Sep 12 06:14:38 xD Sep 12 06:15:04 well you asked for those lines =) Sep 12 06:15:06 jauderho: how long do you wait after rebooting before trying to run Preware? Sep 12 06:15:15 oh quite a while Sep 12 06:15:38 until the evdo connects? Sep 12 06:15:41 well Sep 12 06:15:46 I just got the message again Sep 12 06:15:56 and I'm home Sep 12 06:15:57 on wifi Sep 12 06:16:25 jauderho: ok, between lines 51 and 52 next Sep 12 06:16:30 (from the original paste) Sep 12 06:16:40 sorry, 50 and 51 Sep 12 06:16:46 which message are you guys hunting for? Sep 12 06:16:53 2009-09-12T00:21:59.004119Z to 2009-09-12T00:22:11.124816Z Sep 12 06:17:24 we're looking for what is causing java-serviceboot to restart, which in turn causes all services to go offline for some time, which you are experiencing as Preware hanging. Sep 12 06:17:25 the one that screws everything up? Sep 12 06:17:39 I've had a simular problem. open preware...loads feeds...see available apps...minimize preware card...come back to it say in an hour or so..bring the card forward...i click update feeds...and usually i get a pop up that tellsm me package manager service isn't running.. Sep 12 06:17:59 daybreak1199: what versions of service and preware please Sep 12 06:18:16 and how where they installed, and have you rebooted since they were installed Sep 12 06:18:31 were they installed fresh, or over the top? Sep 12 06:18:38 i dont see the service is not running error unless i close it while it is updating and then open it again Sep 12 06:18:52 only hang i'm seeing now is when its loading the precentral feed Sep 12 06:19:13 acydlord: for how long does it pause? Sep 12 06:19:24 anywhere from 10-30 seconds Sep 12 06:19:41 aunt minnie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsCcnkkM0vU Sep 12 06:19:45 acydlord: and that's in the "Loading" phase? Sep 12 06:19:50 CRAP Sep 12 06:19:59 rwhitby, yeah, in the loading phase Sep 12 06:20:01 the logs just rotated Sep 12 06:20:03 hold on Sep 12 06:20:54 oo ooo Sep 12 06:20:59 acydlord: and does it ever hang longer than 30 secs in that phase? Sep 12 06:21:01 I just saw a java OOM Sep 12 06:21:09 jauderho: bingo. Sep 12 06:21:28 bingo Sep 12 06:21:35 rwhitby, i don't believe so. i've gotten impatient a few times and closed it, reopened it and it went faster Sep 12 06:21:36 stop using so much memory =) Sep 12 06:21:48 oil: we need an app that watches for java-serviceboot restarts, and pops up a BSOD ... Sep 12 06:22:04 someone needs to run spellcheck too Sep 12 06:22:05 2009-09-12T00:22:10.951721Z [5709] castle user.err contextupload: [taskSchedulerUp: 294]: Task schedler not up!! Sep 12 06:22:26 lol, logitech did something like that during the beta for the harmony 900, it showed the dont taze me bro picture on screen Sep 12 06:22:28 "WebOS has just restarted your Pre - please wait 5 minutes until you use Preware again" Sep 12 06:22:32 rwhitby: i have package manager 0.8.6 preware 0.8.5 > i have rebooted since they had been installed. they were installed with quickinstall 2.03 Sep 12 06:23:06 daybreak1199: can you capture and pastebin /var/log/messages across the period where that happens? Sep 12 06:23:23 an app that watches for restarts? Sep 12 06:23:24 yes..the next time i will Sep 12 06:23:31 okay Sep 12 06:23:34 egh world of goo has fucked up my perception of text for the night Sep 12 06:23:35 here is the pastebin Sep 12 06:23:36 http://webos.pastebin.com/d5c870baa Sep 12 06:23:49 I see something typed out with very little support under it and am thinking to myself "that text is about to fall over to the right" Sep 12 06:24:03 psykoz, thats alright, i have code burned into my retinas now Sep 12 06:24:42 fwiw I have a lightly modded pre Sep 12 06:24:46 ;) at least the code you have burned into your retinas is in hopefully some form of english or what not Sep 12 06:24:54 I remember when I used to program hardware drivers in assembler Sep 12 06:24:57 this is the only additional service pkg I am running Sep 12 06:25:14 Assembler burned into your retinas is almost like kanji Sep 12 06:25:46 haha Sep 12 06:25:48 lunasysmgr is sucking up 308MB virtright now Sep 12 06:25:57 ouch Sep 12 06:26:28 leak somewhere? Sep 12 06:26:29 jauderho: do you see any relationship between the number of times you "update feed" in preware, and the prevalence of Java OOM errors causing a service restart? Sep 12 06:26:41 no Sep 12 06:27:02 is there any way you can test that hypothesis to prove or disprove it? Sep 12 06:27:13 I restarted earlier due to my pre acting very strangely (could not answer call) Sep 12 06:27:14 e.g. watching mem stats which hitting Update Feeds many times? Sep 12 06:27:23 s/which/while/ Sep 12 06:27:25 rwhitby meant: e.g. watching mem stats while hitting Update Feeds many times? Sep 12 06:27:42 hmm, how difficult would it be to have a daemon running that detects when the pre is slid upward and perform an action Sep 12 06:28:31 punzada, probably not hard, it's in there somewhere already to turn the backlight for the keyboard on Sep 12 06:28:43 hmm, indeed it is Sep 12 06:29:06 rwhitby: okay. trying now Sep 12 06:29:26 hmm. this time it went through. Sep 12 06:29:31 304MB Sep 12 06:30:06 okay. now it failed Sep 12 06:30:52 any java gurus in the house? Sep 12 06:31:28 I see this in ps Sep 12 06:31:30 http://webos.pastebin.com/d30884ec1 Sep 12 06:31:35 I thought the whole premise of the hype about Java was that you couldn't leak memory with it ... Sep 12 06:31:46 the pre does try to load an immense amount of jars Sep 12 06:31:55 well you can't leak leak mem Sep 12 06:32:05 haha, i always thought java was a system resource hog Sep 12 06:32:13 but with long running processes and things not being freed up Sep 12 06:32:38 look at the pastebin and the crazy number of jars. Sep 12 06:32:48 plus this is a pretty old version of apache harmony Sep 12 06:33:03 newer revs claim to be "better" Sep 12 06:33:10 jauderho: that process is the whole dbus services process - pretty much most of the API is in that service. Sep 12 06:33:28 jauderho: that pastebin is normal Sep 12 06:33:49 (by the processes and what they are doing - dunno what the normal memory usage is) Sep 12 06:33:57 I wasn't saying it's not normal just that lots are consumed. Sep 12 06:34:13 what does the mem consumption for lunasysmgr for people say? Sep 12 06:34:25 jauderho: does it increase monotonically on update feeds ? Sep 12 06:34:35 it does not Sep 12 06:34:42 at least teh couple of times I have tried it Sep 12 06:34:52 I could reboot and see where it starts Sep 12 06:35:06 hold on Sep 12 06:35:14 let me stop and start lunasysmgr Sep 12 06:38:36 I wonder if palm looked at different libc s Sep 12 06:39:24 okay a freshly started lunasysmgr clocks in at 148MB virt for me. Sep 12 06:40:27 opening preware makes it jump to 190MB Sep 12 06:40:38 lunsysmgr or the java process? Sep 12 06:40:54 lunasysmgr Sep 12 06:41:22 launched fine. now closing out and retrying preware Sep 12 06:41:43 now at 193MB Sep 12 06:41:53 jauderho: we're interested in the size of the java process, not the LunaSysMgr C/C++ binary process Sep 12 06:42:41 but if LunaSysMgr is monotonically increasing that's a general problem as well, but not one related to anything Preware could be doing Sep 12 06:43:24 (the worst that could be happening is that Preware is triggering an existing leak in LunaSysMgr if it keeps increasing) Sep 12 06:44:00 I'm interested in the size of the java process with all the .jar files in the arguments, since that is the one that the OOM error is coming from ... Sep 12 06:44:30 okay Sep 12 06:44:43 java at 86612 Sep 12 06:45:16 and is it stable or does it increase with each feed update? Sep 12 06:45:29 seems stable Sep 12 06:45:33 for now Sep 12 06:46:16 yup Sep 12 06:46:20 staying constant Sep 12 06:47:00 lunasysmgr is definitely increasing in size. now up to 206 Sep 12 06:48:13 brb Sep 12 06:48:18 rebooting to 10.6.1 Sep 12 06:53:38 oil: any idea if anything in ipkgservice or preware would use a lot of mem in LunaSysMgr ? Sep 12 06:54:08 oil: I was suspecting the rawlists, but that would be in the java process Sep 12 06:54:10 is it after multiple requests? Sep 12 06:54:15 or just starting off Sep 12 06:55:03 ugh, what is an itouch Sep 12 06:56:20 back Sep 12 06:58:05 Eguy, a crapple product Sep 12 07:00:23 apple makes an itouch? Sep 12 07:00:32 is that from their sex toy line? Sep 12 07:00:36 ipod touch Sep 12 07:00:39 * rwhitby ignores egay Sep 12 07:00:43 people call it an itouch Sep 12 07:00:46 OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH you mean IPOD TOUCH Sep 12 07:01:04 * Eguy thinks rwhitby is a fanboy :) Sep 12 07:01:17 linux of course Sep 12 07:01:33 apple people can not afford to buy all the vowels to spell out ipod touch cause apple rapes them on retail pricing Sep 12 07:01:42 HAH! Sep 12 07:01:48 that was a good laugh Sep 12 07:02:19 i remember how pissed one of my friends was when i showed her should could have gotten the same laptop as the macbook pro except with an asus logo Sep 12 07:02:27 for $600 instead of $3600 Sep 12 07:02:33 the truth hurts Sep 12 07:02:42 yeah Sep 12 07:02:50 hackintosh Sep 12 07:03:03 she was like "but apple parts" blah blah, so i whipped out the field service manual Sep 12 07:03:12 same parts, built in the same factory Sep 12 07:03:17 * Eguy nods Sep 12 07:03:28 i dont really see the point in a hackintosh Sep 12 07:03:34 ohhh dear.... why do people think different Sep 12 07:03:42 i mean yeah, their mickey moused version of unix is cute Sep 12 07:04:05 but if i wanted my computer to treat me like i was an idiot i'd just torrent vista Sep 12 07:04:28 /oswar Sep 12 07:04:30 you know why the average joe likes a mac? Sep 12 07:04:46 it's the stability of Linux, without the multiplicity of distributions. Sep 12 07:04:49 because it's the trendy computer to have at the moment Sep 12 07:05:03 ^ Sep 12 07:05:13 Not only what rwhitby said Sep 12 07:05:14 but Sep 12 07:05:18 and people are loose with their money Sep 12 07:05:28 every single person i know that owns a mac has admitted it was about 90% aesthetics Sep 12 07:05:31 I think mac fills an important niche, you need the extremes of proprietary and openness, it helps development overall Sep 12 07:05:35 I have linux geeks all the time tell me "you're not leet like we are because you don't use a unix desktop" Sep 12 07:05:36 nice vista joke acydlord Sep 12 07:05:45 at least microsoft doesnt treat every customer like a moron Sep 12 07:05:48 * rwhitby loves Linux, but hates Linux distribution GUIs - they are way to bloated for the main purpose of just arranging shell windows on the screen .... Sep 12 07:05:58 But, I administer tons of unix servers, I am very proficient with BSD and Solaris, etc Sep 12 07:06:06 the thing is, my desktop is a gateway to my job Sep 12 07:06:08 rwhitby, apparently you've never seen crunchbang Sep 12 07:06:16 WHAT acydlord???? Have you ever called MS support? Sep 12 07:06:18 and I would rather spend 1 hour getting my desktop up and running whether it was OSX or Windows Sep 12 07:06:20 acydlord: I rest my case Sep 12 07:06:26 rwhitby: not everyone lives in a terminal and wants a simple tiled window manager Sep 12 07:06:28 Eguy, not in a long time Sep 12 07:06:35 granted, I basically do Sep 12 07:06:38 but not everyone does Sep 12 07:06:40 Oh wait, they are the morons not us Sep 12 07:06:47 there are percs to having lifetime msdn status Sep 12 07:06:51 and never have to troubleshoot it, compile something, twist some lever etc. I want to make money fixing other people's problems,a nd I want to pay someone to fix my small problems that can be fixed for $50-200 Sep 12 07:07:20 psykoz: +1 Sep 12 07:07:20 i cant afford to pay to have things fixed i can fix myself Sep 12 07:07:24 nor would i want to Sep 12 07:07:55 Hey, if everyone used linux I couldn't grossly overcharge clients for tech support Sep 12 07:08:03 Using Windows or OSX doesn't make you bad, it makes you smart if you say "15 hours of my time is worth $1500 and I would rather save $1500 and spend $300 on something that works than spend $0 and waste $1500 hours of my time fixing my own problems." Sep 12 07:08:08 OS X pays me nicely Sep 12 07:08:27 now 80% of the clients I have with major problems have Macs Sep 12 07:08:30 rwhitby, *bows* thank you, thank you Sep 12 07:08:36 me runs osx and linux simultaneously on the same machine continuously, with a windows vm being started occasionally. Sep 12 07:08:47 simultaneously? Sep 12 07:08:57 i own one mac, simply for testing purposes Sep 12 07:09:02 ^ same Sep 12 07:09:15 i got it free from someone to prove that macs are vulnerable to virii Sep 12 07:09:17 sure. linux vm under virtualbox on a mac laptop. used to have the same on a windows laptop. Sep 12 07:09:24 oh Sep 12 07:09:28 with virtualization sure Sep 12 07:09:33 Oh and I usually end up saying take it to the genius bar because they are obviously the smartest people alive Sep 12 07:09:52 haha, i quit working on macs after i got my cert Sep 12 07:10:11 and they told me i'd have to send apple money any time i worked on one as a charge to recertify the computer Sep 12 07:10:12 this will get linux die hards fired up Sep 12 07:10:13 but it's so true Sep 12 07:10:15 http://karendecoster.com/open-letter-to-linux-geeks.html Sep 12 07:10:29 hmm, i'm a linux diehard, time to give it a read Sep 12 07:10:45 hahahah Sep 12 07:10:47 oooo. trying hard to get fired up. Sep 12 07:10:49 meh Sep 12 07:11:09 To writer: nobody cares about you complaining on your blog Sep 12 07:11:37 who's got blocked with moves saved and wants to check something in the new version for oil? Sep 12 07:11:38 It's like twitter but unfortunately, people care on twitter when their friends are going to sit down on their couch Sep 12 07:11:43 the thing i hate about articles like that Sep 12 07:11:50 * punzada yawns Sep 12 07:11:54 that wasn't too bad Sep 12 07:11:56 is that everyone assumes that linux is always broken and therefore must be worked on constantly Sep 12 07:11:59 she doesn't like or need linux, that's fine. Sep 12 07:12:56 acydlord: doesn't need to be broken to be a time sin Sep 12 07:12:58 sink Sep 12 07:13:01 I'm a linux diehard but i'm not an evangelist. I care that it works for *me* for my uses, and on my hardware. I could care less who else runs it as long as there is *some* community (and viable participation from major hardware vendors to at least SOME extent) Sep 12 07:13:09 rwhitby++ Sep 12 07:13:31 rwhitby still ignoring me? Sep 12 07:13:44 Was it the broken Pre I sent you? Sep 12 07:13:46 I sink enough time into linux on embedded devices. no way I want to waste that precious time deciding which of the 50 million linux guis to use. Sep 12 07:13:54 rwhitby, when it is working fine it is no more a tome constraint than any other OS Sep 12 07:14:08 time^ Sep 12 07:14:09 I chat with Karen a lot, and she has very valid points, it's not that whether Linux is broken or not, its someone like her would have to invest 10, 15, 30 hours changing to linux, learning it, maybe a driver doesn't work right for her laptop, maybe there's not a wireless driver at all for her laptop, etc.. Sep 12 07:14:25 and when you're pulling $35, 75, 125, $200/hour from people doing work Sep 12 07:14:33 how many people do you know that jumped from windows to mac instantly? Sep 12 07:14:40 acydlord: agreed - that's not the part of the lifecycle of adoption that I'm talking about. Sep 12 07:14:40 It's not very appealing to spend time fixing your problems Sep 12 07:14:55 acydlord: too many unfortunately Sep 12 07:15:15 acydlord: I did. all the apps I used were available on both. Sep 12 07:15:23 Eguy, i mean knowing all the ins and outs of the os Sep 12 07:15:36 (including virtualbox, being the main one that I was concerned about) Sep 12 07:15:41 say they want to change the theme, change icons, customize it fully Sep 12 07:15:47 rwhitby: ironically that's how I moved to linux from windows, I found myself using vlc, pidgin, firefox, openoffice and was like 'why the hell am I still using windows?' Sep 12 07:15:51 lol. Sep 12 07:15:53 virtualbox is pretty good especially being free Sep 12 07:16:02 make changes that the mickey moused GUI doesnt want you to make Sep 12 07:16:08 acydlord, I find myself being more compelled to an OS that requires less than 5 minutes of tweaking a few annoyances to make me happy Sep 12 07:16:09 i get better performance from vb then vmware Sep 12 07:16:13 acydlord: it the "customize it fully" mentality which is the time sink Sep 12 07:16:20 acydlord, 10 years ago, I found myself enjoying an OS that was a hobby to tweak to make me happy Sep 12 07:16:29 amazing how that works Sep 12 07:16:48 my last linux install took 5 minutes from boot until i had a fully functioning desktop installed and loaded in Sep 12 07:16:57 5 mins? Sep 12 07:17:01 cant remember the last time that could be said about mac or windows Sep 12 07:17:13 was it tiny? because taking a few gigs to copy can take more then that Sep 12 07:17:15 >> Sep 12 07:17:27 it's about 2.5 gigs on disk Sep 12 07:17:39 Until you run into some Intel IWI drivers or something on a random laptop ;) Sep 12 07:17:47 and then 5 minutes gets turned into an hour or 2 ;) Sep 12 07:17:49 acydlord: all OS's have a fully functional desktop 5 minutes from boot. Sep 12 07:18:04 rwhitby, i'm talking about install time Sep 12 07:18:25 "my OS can be installed faster than yours on a specific piece of hardware" :) Sep 12 07:18:38 acydlord: all machines bought from the shop with an OS preinstalled have a full functional desktop 5 minutes from boot, irrespective of OS being linux, windows, or osx. Sep 12 07:18:44 to throw the other side of the fence, my last windows install invovled about 4 forced restarts during driver installation Sep 12 07:18:47 the linux kernel isnt as small as it used to be Sep 12 07:18:52 * Eguy is waiting for vmware 7 Sep 12 07:18:53 99.99999% of computer users never install an OS Sep 12 07:19:10 everyone seems to think it still has the same minimal hardware support that it did 10 years ago Sep 12 07:20:04 for someone who wants to treat a computer as a tool, rather than a religion, there is virtually no difference between linux, windows and osx. Sep 12 07:20:08 the main thing i dont like about OSX, other than all the blatant gpl violations is that it treats the user like a moron Sep 12 07:20:40 i use my computers as tools, windows and osx wont fit the bill for what i need them to do Sep 12 07:20:52 and if google gets their way, the OS will be even more irrelevant than it is now .... Sep 12 07:20:57 osx is too restrictive without spending forever breaking their drm measures Sep 12 07:21:06 and windows is just not stable enough yet Sep 12 07:21:19 acydlord: ah, but you are one of the 0.0000001% of users for which any of that matters. Sep 12 07:21:22 acydlord: I am on windows 3.1 right now Sep 12 07:21:26 very stable Sep 12 07:21:36 Eguy, windows 3.1 doesnt have networking support :p Sep 12 07:21:45 ahhh but I hacked it Sep 12 07:21:55 but Sep 12 07:21:58 it does have skifree Sep 12 07:22:01 and skifree is amazing Sep 12 07:22:20 haha, i remember skifree Sep 12 07:22:27 hehe me too Sep 12 07:22:41 one day i will get tired of the internet... and install microsoft BOB on all my computers Sep 12 07:22:41 I just downloaded it again the other day Sep 12 07:22:49 the original dev released a slightly updated/patched version Sep 12 07:22:54 works perfectly in wine Sep 12 07:22:55 remember when windows 95 crashed on stage when bill was presenting it? Sep 12 07:23:04 punzada, just found the perfect c-c-c-c-combo breaker for os wars Sep 12 07:23:07 skifree Sep 12 07:23:08 jauderho: so are you back with any updated memory trends? Sep 12 07:23:18 hold on Sep 12 07:23:20 lol Sep 12 07:23:25 I'm messing with calendar setups Sep 12 07:24:25 grr Sep 12 07:24:49 if you add a new calendar feed to google calendar, does it show up for you automatically on the pre? Sep 12 07:24:52 anyone? Sep 12 07:24:54 yes Sep 12 07:24:59 usually takes a bit though Sep 12 07:25:05 hmm Sep 12 07:25:20 I just tried a sync now but did not seem to make a difference. Sep 12 07:25:23 oh well Sep 12 07:25:31 usually you will see it within 24 hours Sep 12 07:26:32 well lunasysmgr is at a hefty 269mb now Sep 12 07:26:47 wooho Sep 12 07:26:51 losing weight Sep 12 07:27:00 and java is at 92396 Sep 12 07:27:08 so there is some growth there but not much. Sep 12 07:27:16 I have not fired up preware again Sep 12 07:27:25 while rebooting the mac Sep 12 07:27:36 jauderho: try repeatedly updating the feeds Sep 12 07:27:39 just opened a few web pages and tried to get the calendar thingie fixed Sep 12 07:28:47 after last invocation, java mem usage goes to 90348 Sep 12 07:29:13 stays the same for seconf invoke Sep 12 07:29:32 same for third Sep 12 07:29:52 if you can update the feeds 10 times, and the java stays the same, then I'm calling the ipkgservice to be not leaking. Sep 12 07:30:45 * Eguy apologises to rwhitby Sep 12 07:33:20 so what would it be then Sep 12 07:33:21 the app? Sep 12 07:35:02 well it's seemingly stable now Sep 12 07:35:23 oil: I'm suspecting that someone completely independent is causing the java-serviceboot restart, and every other app probably just does a retry if they get a service dbus error - I think we just need to add some retry stuff into the preware app. Sep 12 07:35:28 did it 6 times and got bored. Sep 12 07:35:41 jauderho: and LunaSysMgr is stable size too? Sep 12 07:35:51 now hovering around 255MB Sep 12 07:35:55 still porky Sep 12 07:36:05 but yes Sep 12 07:36:06 but not increasing? Sep 12 07:36:29 * rwhitby calls preware and ipkgservice as symptoms, not causes. Sep 12 07:37:03 I wonder if lunasysmgr has a pretty lazy gc. it's not very aggressive at reclaiming mem. Sep 12 07:39:10 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/202500-how-about-roam-switch.html Sep 12 07:39:21 okay. I'm off to talk to the gf for a bit. back in a while Sep 12 07:39:26 that is the most ridculous topic ever made on a discussion board Sep 12 07:39:44 anyone know if the Pre is capable of recording audio? If not, anyone working on a project to enable this for homebrew apps? Sep 12 07:41:17 hmm a quick audio notes app would be nice come to mention it Sep 12 07:42:25 cant access the mic in the sdk, dunno about through the apis Sep 12 07:42:55 yeah, there are tons of possibilities. the iPhone has quite a few cool apps. Sep 12 07:43:20 just a few Sep 12 07:43:22 apps Sep 12 07:43:24 I suppose it is possible, might take a bit of hacking though. Hopefully Palm opens it up at some point. Sep 12 07:43:29 only 50,000 plus Sep 12 07:44:12 and thats only the fart apps Eguy Sep 12 07:44:13 anyone have blocked installed with some saved moves in it? Sep 12 07:44:19 i want to make sure the new version clears them Sep 12 07:44:23 ahhh good point acydlord Sep 12 07:44:40 http://www.precentral.net/sites/precentral.net/files/webos-homebrew-apps/feeds/blocked_0.9.1.ipk Sep 12 07:44:43 I did notice the pre fart app is going to be a paid app.... is he kidding? Sep 12 07:45:54 didnt see that Sep 12 07:46:04 he really is taking a play from the apple book Sep 12 07:51:26 jauderho: so, any other theories about your java vm out of memory errors? Sep 12 07:52:01 (now that we seem to have removed preware and ipkgservice from the list of possible offenders) Sep 12 07:52:13 what other crap you got installed? Sep 12 07:53:56 hey Sep 12 07:54:14 i need 1.2 Sep 12 07:54:35 can someone help me with that plz Sep 12 07:55:26 it's on precentral Sep 12 07:55:36 do u have a link Sep 12 07:55:43 not handy Sep 12 07:55:47 ok Sep 12 07:55:52 do a search Sep 12 07:55:58 kk Sep 12 08:00:46 oh hey, 802.11n was made official today Sep 12 08:04:01 wow Sep 12 08:05:07 was it? Sep 12 08:05:10 I missed that Sep 12 08:05:33 * Eguy throws out all old n stuff Sep 12 08:05:44 just another way to make money I suppose Sep 12 08:07:06 * oil will stick with g Sep 12 08:07:12 till n is saturated anyways Sep 12 08:07:32 all keep my g stuff for when n gets saturated lol Sep 12 08:07:33 the difference between a regular HD and a velociraptor drive is astounding Sep 12 08:07:54 cause velociraptors make everything better Sep 12 08:08:00 hey i still cant find a link to download 1.2 Sep 12 08:08:00 indeed Sep 12 08:08:13 when i hooked up my first velociraptor i thought my computer was gonna hover Sep 12 08:09:08 CAn someone send me 1.2 plz Sep 12 08:09:08 I just did a couple of windows updates on my rig with the velociraptors and it was like 56k vs cable Sep 12 08:09:33 Sloppyjm, that is not what this channel is for Sep 12 08:09:43 who want to test my directfb plugin on emulator? I can send you a file Sep 12 08:09:53 Sloppyjm, here http://tinyurl.com/nrh6yd Sep 12 08:10:04 lmgtfy FTW Sep 12 08:10:15 hahah yes Sep 12 08:10:20 live.lmgtfy.com Sep 12 08:10:36 ok Sep 12 08:10:36 * oil <<3's it, uses it all the time Sep 12 08:11:53 ameng|home: what does it do sofar? Sep 12 08:12:14 run dfbterm Sep 12 08:12:34 ameng|home: is the source anywhere? Nothing personal, but I try not to run random binaries from people on the internet ;-) Sep 12 08:13:21 damn that was a fast lap Sep 12 08:14:15 hah, the source will put into webos-internals.org soon. I just want to see if i build it correctly now Sep 12 08:14:58 ameng|home: cool - I can help you with the repo on webos-internals.org - please send me an ssh key and your preferred repo name Sep 12 08:17:18 so what did the crashing come down to>? Sep 12 08:18:05 oil: no idea, but there is no evidence that it's ipkgservice or preware. Sep 12 08:19:42 oil: but if we put the retry stuff in preware, then we can deflect the misdirected blame elsewhere ;-) Sep 12 09:20:12 I'm pleased to report that ameng|home is a genius :-) Sep 12 09:21:00 no genius , heh Sep 12 09:21:41 * oil too Sep 12 09:21:57 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:DirectFB_Terminal.png Sep 12 09:22:13 arrow? Sep 12 09:22:53 it's a big cursor :-) Sep 12 09:23:26 its part of the window? Sep 12 09:23:29 or its from your os? Sep 12 09:23:40 it's in the window Sep 12 09:23:41 hah, do you managed to move and resize the terminal window , its tricky Sep 12 09:23:56 whats the point of the cursor? Sep 12 09:24:20 we can hide the cursor if you do not want it Sep 12 09:24:44 put cursor=no in .directfbrc Sep 12 09:24:55 its still taps, right? Sep 12 09:25:03 does the ripple still appear? Sep 12 09:25:05 this is pre-alpha, the fact that it is there is amazing in itself. Sep 12 09:26:39 so this allows things like emulators / whatever else to go into a card? Sep 12 09:26:59 yep, using directfb Sep 12 09:27:04 awesome Sep 12 09:27:15 way to go ameng! Sep 12 09:28:11 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=plugins/dfbadapter.git;a=summary is ready for uploading :-) Sep 12 09:29:09 oil: I think we will have a lot of dfb and gtk apps on it soon. heh Sep 12 09:29:43 * oil googled and found ut2004 uses dfb Sep 12 09:29:56 lol Sep 12 09:37:05 * oil cant wait for all the new stuff Sep 12 10:21:57 hello again, can anyone tell me if the linux on the pre is 32bit or 64bit? thanks! Sep 12 10:22:21 32? Sep 12 10:22:28 * oil doesnt really know, just a guess Sep 12 10:24:46 cat /proc/cpuinfo Sep 12 10:25:46 jettero: are you able to run that command? i don't have a pre Sep 12 10:25:58 it doesn't actually say Sep 12 10:26:11 bummer :( Sep 12 10:26:21 just having some trouble cross compiling for the Pre Sep 12 10:26:26 can cross compile fine for the emulator Sep 12 10:26:30 http://pastebin.com/d3cde3ae5 Sep 12 10:26:50 the emu seems to be my intel e4500 processor Sep 12 10:27:02 so ... you wouldn't need to *cross* compile for it Sep 12 10:27:12 I'm using an arm cross compiler for my pre and the apps run great Sep 12 10:27:25 I don't think it's a 32vs64 situation. I think it's just arm Sep 12 10:28:55 jettero: are you using optware? where I try and compile and include .so librarys from the webosdoctor it says LD: skipping incompatible library. Even though im using the cs08q1armel toolchain Sep 12 10:29:28 are you sure you're using the right ld? Sep 12 10:29:42 I find, with cross compilers, I tend to end up using the /usr/bin/ld without really forcing the issue Sep 12 10:30:09 I did link against some pre .sos, but I tared /usr/lib and moved it to an -l location Sep 12 10:30:12 oh! its using /usr/bin/ld Sep 12 10:30:16 called it Sep 12 10:30:25 emulator is just i686 Sep 12 10:30:40 which one should i call for the native pre compile? Sep 12 10:30:46 on the pre, it's armel 32 bit Sep 12 10:31:18 greg_roll: dunno, you'd have to investigate a little, but usualy it's LD=`dirname $CC`/ld Sep 12 10:31:40 jettero: thanks :) ill have a play Sep 12 10:31:50 rwhitby: thanks :) Sep 12 10:45:25 is it file base or sh? Sep 12 10:45:28 shm Sep 12 10:47:35 tmzt: shm Sep 12 10:47:45 ok Sep 12 10:47:52 (assuming you're referring to the directfb work) Sep 12 10:48:05 sdl is next? Sep 12 10:48:16 yeah Sep 12 10:49:12 I don't quite get it though Sep 12 10:49:52 seems it would require recompilation Sep 12 10:50:09 of the dfb program Sep 12 10:50:18 no need Sep 12 10:50:44 how does it work Sep 12 10:51:14 I'll explain it on the wiki page :) Sep 12 10:51:26 ok Sep 12 10:52:22 kdrive/Xvfb should be very similar Sep 12 10:54:57 generally, just abstracting the npplugin as hardwares window buffer -> screen input event ->input device from directfb Sep 12 10:55:18 for directfb Sep 12 10:56:34 why directfb ? because so many gui tool kit can based on it ( gtk , qt...) Sep 12 10:58:59 so generic adapter? Sep 12 10:59:05 yeah Sep 12 10:59:20 called dfbadapter Sep 12 10:59:23 I see its still netscape code Sep 12 10:59:33 right Sep 12 10:59:52 the main part is in directfb code Sep 12 10:59:55 nd the process you fork determines what is shown Sep 12 11:00:12 yeah Sep 12 11:00:30 so if we want vnc or X Sep 12 11:00:44 or rdp Sep 12 11:01:39 if that can based on directfb. i know there is http://directfb.org/index.php?path=Projects%2FXDirectFB Sep 12 11:02:21 next step i will run gtk programs on the adapter Sep 12 11:02:52 rwhitby: sorry I was upstairs.. processing pictures. Sep 12 11:03:09 I do not have much installed and only two patches applied Sep 12 11:03:34 I'm not entirely sure what causes the oom Sep 12 11:04:23 CC=gcc Sep 12 11:04:35 heh, c-n-p accident Sep 12 11:04:36 nm Sep 12 11:05:29 tmzz: now so many things need to refined or restructured, feel free to contribute Sep 12 11:05:58 sorry , tmzt Sep 12 11:07:11 time for meal , catch up your guys later Sep 12 11:07:18 it could be that lunasysmgr turns out to be a gigantic mem hog causing other things to oom Sep 12 11:07:27 and java happens to be the unlucky one. Sep 12 11:07:42 the oom killer is indiscriminate. Sep 12 11:08:40 I cant't understand why they used java just for jni Sep 12 11:08:55 since the mem listed in top is 256mb + 128mb swap. Sep 12 11:09:13 and with lunasysmgr occasionally chewing 300+mb.... Sep 12 11:09:25 tmzt, no idea. you have to ask palm Sep 12 11:10:23 I can probably think of a couple other options that could have been easier/lighter Sep 12 11:10:55 okay. back in the am Sep 12 11:48:26 jettero: i now have the compiler pointing to the correct LD but now it says "unrecognised emulation mode: elf_i386" its like its still trying tom compile for x86 :( Sep 12 11:49:09 hehe Sep 12 11:49:16 cross compilers are pretty hard to operate Sep 12 11:49:21 you'll just have to play with it Sep 12 11:49:32 sounds like you're using the wrong ld though Sep 12 11:49:55 jettero: thanks ill see if theres another Sep 12 11:49:58 eg, I have /usr/local/arm/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld <--- wrong one Sep 12 11:50:17 and /usr/local/arm/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld <---- right one Sep 12 11:50:30 no wait Sep 12 11:50:37 the first one was maybe right Sep 12 11:50:40 hehe, they're hard Sep 12 11:51:01 it's especially hard if you don't even have the right platform to test the binary on Sep 12 11:51:32 yeah it sure is, cant wait to AUS has them Sep 12 11:51:44 ill try /usr/local/arm/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-ld because im using the other now Sep 12 11:51:55 the AU pre will have to be GSM? Sep 12 11:52:15 yeah! so hopefully someone releases the GSM soon Sep 12 11:52:25 there was a rumor on precentral of 15th i think Sep 12 11:52:48 yeah, I use CC=arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc and set my path to ARM_PATH=/usr/local/arm/bin:/usr/bin and this somehow just works Sep 12 11:53:25 and thats set in MakeFile ? Sep 12 11:55:13 cool! i think its working :) Sep 12 11:55:19 jettero: thanks!!! Sep 12 11:56:41 it almost doesn't matter if it's in the makefile... if you can't get it to work from the commandline, the makefile won't help Sep 12 11:57:15 its now complaining about another library so that fixed it, thank you so much! Sep 12 11:59:44 no problem Sep 12 12:18:11 jettero: yes, the .au pre needs to be GSM Sep 12 12:19:27 does sprint exist down there? seems they'd probably need to work out a new exclusivity agreement? or does the sprint agreement only apply here in the states? Sep 12 12:20:23 sprint agreement is only in the states. sprint is not a global carrier. Sep 12 12:20:47 jettero: thank you so much, i have now successfully compiled for the Pre. :) :) :) Sep 12 12:20:54 haha Sep 12 12:21:07 you'd have gotten it eventually. You just have to play with it. Cross compilers are confusing Sep 12 12:21:09 if only i could use it lol Sep 12 12:22:14 rwhitby: right, but they could have made the agreement such that palm couldn't sell to foreign carriers unless they pay sprint or something... doubtful that they did, but they could have... Sep 12 12:22:52 * rwhitby has lost power, and 3000 people in my area are affected - some major fault. so I will only be here as long as the UPS on the router and cable modem at home lasts Sep 12 12:23:43 shitty... goodbye in advance Sep 12 12:28:29 see you soon (hopefully) rwhitby Sep 12 12:28:50 hmmm routers don't take much power Sep 12 12:29:44 well, if there's really something interesting that will keep me up, I've always got the usb datacard for the laptop Sep 12 12:57:46 damn ... I need a javascript syntax checker Sep 12 12:57:57 if you have a typo, mojo just fails to load the file Sep 12 12:58:12 (doesn't seem to report the syntax error anywhere) Sep 12 13:11:51 ls Sep 12 13:11:55 oops Sep 12 13:17:56 PreCentral has a spamming problem: 3 spam in the last 5 posts on http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1888554 Sep 12 13:25:08 happens all the time. It's not really unique to precentral. :) Sep 12 13:25:21 presumably the admins will nab it when they notice Sep 12 14:14:51 It's the first time I've noticed it on PreCentral. Sep 12 14:15:12 * rwhitby bbt - good night all Sep 12 14:17:12 alias ipkg-var='ipkg -o /var' Sep 12 14:22:05 lol, oil, takes ya long enough to accept puzzle designs :P Sep 12 15:37:26 morning Sep 12 15:38:28 sup Sep 12 15:38:44 going crazy dealing with depot Sep 12 15:39:10 haha not looking forward to that Sep 12 15:39:18 I thought it would be pretty straightforward Sep 12 15:39:23 don't want to go to fullon html 5 data but it's looking like it Sep 12 15:39:44 it is if I wanted to look everything up by key Sep 12 15:40:35 i want to look for an entry then list each object Sep 12 15:40:43 meaning itss traightforward if you wanted to lookup by key Sep 12 15:41:13 it's easy to put object in an get them out by key Sep 12 15:42:10 I just need to be able to get all records at one point Sep 12 15:43:48 ah I gotcha Sep 12 15:47:34 morning Sep 12 15:51:15 morning Sep 12 15:54:11 any of the folks that joined know much about the depot functions? Sep 12 16:17:03 bpadalino, I think I possibly resolved my webOSDoctor/Quickinstall vs. Ubuntu. Looks like I had old java remnants installed somehow inhibiting the detection of the thing in dev mode. Sep 12 16:17:14 neat Sep 12 16:17:21 congrats for figuring it out Sep 12 16:17:53 Anyway I appreciated you walking me thru it, helped me rule out what *wasn't* the issues ;-) Sep 12 16:58:23 Hello Everyone Sep 12 17:01:53 kesne: hi. Sep 12 17:02:06 Arg Sep 12 17:02:11 I like waking up to lots of news Sep 12 17:02:14 Nothing new though Sep 12 17:02:24 ahoy hoy Sep 12 17:02:35 there is some news, I'm hungry. Sep 12 17:02:40 stay tuned for breaking developments. Sep 12 17:02:41 Haha Sep 12 17:02:44 I just ate Sep 12 17:02:53 Glad I did too Sep 12 17:07:06 kesne: i know, i haven't seen a lot lately. Sep 12 17:07:36 We should make up news Sep 12 17:07:44 And talk about it Sep 12 17:07:54 and when other people join, they will be all freaked out Sep 12 17:08:33 stuff like that is always fun Sep 12 17:21:11 For some reason PreWare is getting stuck in Updating and on "Checking Version" Sep 12 17:21:14 postinst script was run Sep 12 17:21:39 kesne: nice job on the video recording app. Sep 12 17:21:54 video recording app? Sep 12 17:21:55 that you made, and released to all of us here. Sep 12 17:22:00 Yeah Sep 12 17:22:46 It works like a charm Sep 12 17:22:54 It even has a GUI and sound Sep 12 17:23:07 It's a little buggy, but it's ebtter than nothing Sep 12 17:23:10 thanks dude Sep 12 17:23:26 did you ever find a way around that memory issue? Sep 12 17:23:35 Yeah, good think i was in here while you released it. Sep 12 17:23:48 I'm sure the public will like it when you release 3 months from now. Sep 12 17:24:04 Yeah, it's really beta, and I didn't want everyone getting it Sep 12 17:24:15 fail Sep 12 17:24:19 xD Sep 12 17:24:45 fail: its not a noun, nor adjective. Sep 12 17:26:28 Hmm Sep 12 17:26:36 Anyone want to see Checkers Pro? Sep 12 17:26:51 does it come with megan fox nude? Sep 12 17:26:54 if so, I do. Sep 12 17:27:30 Yeah Sep 12 17:27:39 It lets you play on her legs Sep 12 17:28:35 The funny thing is, you could Sep 12 17:28:40 It lets you change the background Sep 12 17:28:49 AnOutsider every piece you take from the oponent reveals more of a megan fox picture Sep 12 17:28:56 kesne: right? Sep 12 17:29:02 Haha Sep 12 17:29:55 kesne: you should add that as an easter egg. shake the phone three times and type "there's no place like megan fox" three times and then you get that feature Sep 12 17:30:44 Haha Sep 12 17:30:49 I love easter eggs Sep 12 17:30:51 but Sep 12 17:30:57 Palm looks at the source Sep 12 17:31:04 I think Sep 12 17:31:13 lol, for homebrew then? Sep 12 17:31:19 Sure thing Sep 12 17:31:32 I just don't want to code it Sep 12 17:32:04 http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/kesne/checkerspro_2009-12-09_103026.jpg Sep 12 17:32:10 Shiney Sep 12 17:34:22 kesne u made checkers? Sep 12 17:34:29 No Sep 12 17:34:33 I know the guy that did Sep 12 17:34:33 if so, damned be you for making it hard Sep 12 17:34:36 oh.. well then. Sep 12 17:34:38 damned be him! Sep 12 17:34:39 We're homies Sep 12 17:34:43 haha Sep 12 17:34:45 xD Sep 12 17:34:51 Alright, so it is me Sep 12 17:35:10 Just wanted to make sure I didn't violate some copyright or something Sep 12 17:35:21 You know what I'm saying? Sep 12 17:35:31 haha yeah Sep 12 17:35:36 I'm no narc Sep 12 17:35:37 So yeah Sep 12 17:35:42 Alright Sep 12 17:35:47 Get Checkers Pro Sep 12 17:35:52 It has more Play Styles and settings Sep 12 17:35:56 And turn on Cheat Mode Sep 12 17:36:00 :) Sep 12 17:36:33 meganfox mode Sep 12 17:36:36 The AdSense account interface is temporarily unavailable due to system maintenance. AdSense is expected to be down from approximately 10:00 AM until 2:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time on September 12, 2009. Please note that your earnings will continue to be tracked as normal, and your ad targeting will not be affected during this downtime. We apologize for any inconvenience. Sep 12 17:36:37 sigh Sep 12 17:37:43 how do i start up the ipkgservice? Sep 12 17:37:46 I don't do AdSense Sep 12 17:37:56 gkatsev: For PreWare? Sep 12 17:37:59 yes Sep 12 17:38:08 I believe it automatically starts Sep 12 17:38:16 preware said it died Sep 12 17:38:32 Restart the phone, works for me Sep 12 17:39:14 Maybe I should have charged for checkers. Sep 12 17:39:17 yeah, that takes too long Sep 12 17:39:24 Well Sep 12 17:39:39 I don't know how to manually start it Sep 12 17:39:49 And it takes like three-five mins Sep 12 17:39:58 You can't live without your pre for that long? Sep 12 17:40:56 And that is a real question Sep 12 17:41:00 I mean, I coulndt Sep 12 17:41:28 there we go, its /sbin/start org.webosinternals.ipkgservice Sep 12 17:41:38 Ah Sep 12 17:41:40 :) Sep 12 17:41:42 http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/kesne/checkerspro_2009-12-09_104046.jpg Sep 12 17:42:04 Quick Poll: Would you pay for checkers pro? Sep 12 17:42:16 kesne: yes, i would, but im moneyless :/ Sep 12 17:42:16 Depends on the addiitonal features. Sep 12 17:42:26 you asked if anyone wanted to try it out though, can i? :) Sep 12 17:42:30 and the price Sep 12 17:42:37 i'd pay a dollar for the current checkers. Sep 12 17:42:41 it's all about marketing Sep 12 17:42:42 Alright Sep 12 17:43:04 The current price I'm shooting for is .99 to 1.99 Sep 12 17:43:38 kesne: what are you gonna be adding to checkers pro? Sep 12 17:44:26 A shiney silver icon and the name xD Sep 12 17:44:30 New features Sep 12 17:45:31 Why does everyone want flying kings Sep 12 17:45:34 depending on the amount of new features, id say keep current checkers free and sell pro for .99 or 1.99 Sep 12 17:46:10 That was my plan Sep 12 17:46:17 ok Sep 12 17:46:23 Pro looks super sexy though Sep 12 17:46:37 I mean the icon Sep 12 17:46:40 kesne: you should hack in some webgl and do that Sep 12 17:46:42 And the logo text was redone Sep 12 17:46:47 s/do/use/ Sep 12 17:46:47 gkatsev meant: kesne: you should hack in some webgl and use that Sep 12 17:47:31 No need to, its just checkers, no uber graphics Sep 12 17:47:41 why not? Sep 12 17:49:36 webGL implementation would be excellent in any app :) Sep 12 17:50:24 But js can do it fine Sep 12 17:50:34 webGL wouldnt work any better Sep 12 17:51:13 Anybody want to see this: http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/kesne/chessteaseriamge.png Sep 12 17:52:18 i'd love a notification based chess app Sep 12 17:52:37 notification based? Sep 12 17:52:57 playing against someone .. and when i make my move, it notifies them .. Sep 12 17:53:01 and when they make their move .. it notifies me Sep 12 17:53:19 Online chess Sep 12 17:53:23 indeed! Sep 12 17:54:05 I was thinking of faking online checkers, just setting a delay for the opponent move and setting a random difficulty Sep 12 17:54:53 go for it Sep 12 17:55:31 Haha Sep 12 17:55:34 Nah Sep 12 17:55:38 I can do real online play Sep 12 17:55:40 kesne: make an online game, it'd be cool. Sep 12 17:55:58 Only issue: It's hard Sep 12 17:56:38 :P Sep 12 17:56:52 nah, its easy Sep 12 17:56:58 all ya gotta do is code it ! Sep 12 17:57:04 lol Sep 12 17:57:07 someone told me that once, only they were serious. Sep 12 17:57:12 can pre's sense other pre's near by? Sep 12 17:57:22 bluetooth? Sep 12 17:58:39 is bluetooth PAN exposed to mojo ? Sep 12 17:58:50 * Decimation doesnt know :/ Sep 12 17:59:25 that makes two of us Sep 12 17:59:53 Just use location services Sep 12 17:59:56 but I wont Sep 12 18:00:04 I'll just put the whole thing online Sep 12 18:00:14 Anybody want to help? :D Sep 12 18:00:29 my coding doesn't go past vb/c++ :/ Sep 12 18:00:41 PHP? Sep 12 18:00:45 nosir :( Sep 12 18:00:53 ARg Sep 12 18:01:00 I need someone to do the server end Sep 12 18:01:02 but if you need a tester, im here :) Sep 12 18:01:07 For sure Sep 12 18:01:10 same thing goes for checkers pro :) Sep 12 18:01:23 Online play is in checkers pro Sep 12 18:02:32 ah, i thought it was going to be for chess. Sep 12 18:02:41 It will be too Sep 12 18:02:46 Same framework Sep 12 18:02:56 Okay Sep 12 18:03:12 ATTN: Anyone here want to help me out with the server end of Online Checkers? Sep 12 18:04:48 kesne: /notice :D Sep 12 18:04:58 :P Sep 12 18:05:04 I don't do IRC stuff Sep 12 18:05:24 xD Sep 12 18:09:34 the terminal plugin and backend are amazing Sep 12 18:09:39 just figured i'd mention that. Sep 12 18:10:06 playing vitetris and irc'ing with irssi in a screen session on my phone is about the pinnacle of what I ever wanted in life, so I can now die a happy man Sep 12 18:10:07 amazing ? you think so ? Sep 12 18:10:52 http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/web-os-development/30302d1252458737-screen-keyboard-bugs-functionality-enhancements-messaging_2009-08-09_200311.jpg Sep 12 18:10:59 lol, the onscreen keyboard is so beautiful now. Sep 12 18:11:47 a is too small .. for being a very common letter, why is it slimmer than the others ? Sep 12 18:12:26 hmm, idk. Sep 12 18:16:47 the L is also smaller .. which is used very often as well Sep 12 18:17:43 but i agree, it looks nice Sep 12 18:18:13 then again, i don't like having the letters and numbers on there at all times ... i think it's silly for the soft key to have that Sep 12 18:22:15 Considering how laggy it can get sometimes when working with multiple apps open Sep 12 18:22:36 I'm sure replacing the keys images based on people doing Orange, or some other type of modifier would make it even slower Sep 12 18:23:10 has egaudet not been updating the preware package for virtual keyboard? Sep 12 18:23:21 the smart way to do that would be to use css rules to dictate that instead of using js Sep 12 18:27:18 Hey all Sep 12 18:27:21 That theme Sep 12 18:27:39 the l isnt that bad at all Sep 12 18:28:39 considering it's one of the most commonly used letters in the english language .. being smaller than the other letters isn't that good Sep 12 18:29:25 Yeah Sep 12 18:29:39 The theme looks terrible while landscape and while typing Sep 12 18:29:46 oh yeah ? Sep 12 18:29:50 Yeah Sep 12 18:29:57 Just like every other theme Sep 12 18:30:24 one thing i'm shocked is that pulseaudio is running on the pre, I never would of expected that in a million years. Sep 12 18:30:25 look, loser, all you going to languish over today is l's being used a lot and that little l roaring its lame ugly head at yall? :) (tried to use a lot of l's) Sep 12 18:37:18 uh Sep 12 18:38:55 it was a yoke, sorry ;( Sep 12 18:40:36 oh no problem Sep 12 18:40:39 ugh Sep 12 18:40:43 Got to go everyone Sep 12 18:41:03 Have a good *insert your time of day here*. Sep 12 18:41:28 hello, I just installed preware and the only patch is to install the on-screen keyboard Sep 12 18:41:39 why aren't there a bunch of other patches? Sep 12 18:41:50 do I need to add a feed? Sep 12 18:42:08 misterikkit: thats the only one in preware, others are installable via webos quick install and quilt Sep 12 18:42:57 I'm not finding patches in webos quick install either Sep 12 18:43:17 misterikkit: they are under the menu under addons or something Sep 12 18:43:41 aha Sep 12 18:50:56 kesne: nice job on the video recording app. Sep 12 18:51:07 Doing this again? Sep 12 18:51:29 :P Sep 12 18:51:36 :) Sep 12 18:51:41 Haha Sep 12 18:56:29 http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/kesne/checkerspro_2009-12-09_115321.jpg Sep 12 18:57:29 flying kings =? Sep 12 18:58:50 Yeah Sep 12 18:59:30 http://www.boardgamespub.com/board-games/checkers/ Sep 12 18:59:34 Flying kings section Sep 12 18:59:44 Lots of new settings in this version Sep 12 19:00:14 flying kings are like bishops are in Chess Sep 12 19:00:22 they can move as far as they want in a diagonal Sep 12 19:00:29 Yeah Sep 12 19:00:49 I didn't have the rule on it because it isnt in American Checkers Sep 12 19:02:14 kesne: flying kings = beast Sep 12 19:02:21 There is also Inherit Background Sep 12 19:02:21 send me checkers pro to test. Sep 12 19:02:31 haha, you really want it? Why? Sep 12 19:02:43 Right now it's pretty basic, just more settings Sep 12 19:02:47 lol, i love new stuff :) Sep 12 19:02:54 Hah Sep 12 19:03:01 Once I get it ready you can Sep 12 19:03:08 I'm not done with flying checkers yet Sep 12 19:03:14 It doesnt work yet Sep 12 19:03:20 Inherit Background does though Sep 12 19:03:29 And same with force jump and flip board Sep 12 19:03:36 AND there are more achievements Sep 12 19:05:48 :) Sep 12 19:05:57 I'll give you a free copy Sep 12 19:06:00 because I can Sep 12 19:06:01 BUT Sep 12 19:06:22 I've looked at what tetris does, I like it, so it stops working after 30 seconds Sep 12 19:06:23 xD Sep 12 19:12:34 kesne :P Sep 12 19:38:17 lol, great. right as im about to doctor to 1.2, my g.f text me saying she made it to the volleyball finals Sep 12 19:38:20 NOW I HAVE TO WAIT Sep 12 19:38:24 dammit. Sep 12 19:42:59 Decimation: http://filebin.ca/cuvohe Sep 12 19:43:09 xD Sep 12 19:43:24 lolll :) Sep 12 19:43:31 the conversation is still going on Sep 12 19:43:33 i cant doctor Sep 12 19:43:37 this blows. Sep 12 19:47:57 omg, finally Sep 12 19:47:58 im free. Sep 12 19:55:44 hello Sep 12 21:07:39 Hey all Sep 12 21:07:50 hey Sep 12 21:07:56 How goes it? Sep 12 21:07:58 * oil brb Sep 12 21:08:18 how many downloads kesne? Sep 12 21:25:09 Sorry, was taking a shower Sep 12 21:26:02 23687 Sep 12 21:26:23 woohoo Sep 12 21:26:26 congrats Sep 12 21:26:37 I still can't download :( Sep 12 21:26:38 WHICH IS MORE THAN ACCURADIO! Sep 12 21:26:39 :D Sep 12 21:26:48 I just installed a homebrew Sep 12 21:26:58 can't install checkers :( Sep 12 21:27:04 That means that of the 10 apps pushed that day, checkers has the most downloads! :D Sep 12 21:27:41 i have 1.2 kesne, can't download it :( Sep 12 21:27:51 And I'll have the latest up on homebrew soon Sep 12 21:27:55 So no worries Sep 12 21:28:16 ty! Sep 12 21:28:28 Yeah Sep 12 21:28:30 lol I love how preware works better than the app catalog Sep 12 21:28:33 Palm allows me to :) Sep 12 21:28:34 Haha Sep 12 21:28:35 yeah Sep 12 21:32:54 interesting... "Either the ipkg or the package index are corrupt" Sep 12 21:33:04 I wonder if that is why my app catalog won't work Sep 12 21:33:21 hmm Sep 12 21:33:33 You all should be following me on twitter Sep 12 21:34:56 lolol Sep 12 21:45:09 Has anyone seen the "Either the ipkg or the package index are corrupt" error before? Sep 12 21:46:42 kesne: just installed that AccuRadio, its a nice app :P Sep 12 21:46:57 author deserves more downloads than that of the crappy checkers app :) Sep 12 21:47:05 hahaha Sep 12 21:47:27 I mean, it is checkers. Who would want to play that? Sep 12 21:47:45 probably someone who's homosexual. Sep 12 21:48:05 No, they like twister Sep 12 21:49:03 :P Sep 12 21:49:11 You guys are so nice Sep 12 21:49:20 Actually Sep 12 21:49:21 best part is, you think we're joking :) Sep 12 21:49:26 We are here for you kesne Sep 12 21:49:26 Haha Sep 12 21:49:43 The funny thing is, you could be saying things much worse Sep 12 21:49:47 So It's all good Sep 12 21:50:04 And I know... er... hope your joking Sep 12 21:50:14 :P Sep 12 21:50:21 Decimation never jokes around Sep 12 21:50:25 Haha Sep 12 21:50:37 "Kesne: love the video recording app!" Sep 12 21:50:38 hmmm i dont get this stupid new anytime plan Sep 12 21:50:56 it says 450 minutes but it says that you can call anyone anytime on any network Sep 12 21:51:04 with no limits Sep 12 21:51:05 any mobile Sep 12 21:51:06 I on the other hand, am never serious :P Sep 12 21:51:11 en0x: It's stupid, I'm not down with it Sep 12 21:51:20 en0x: only cell phones, not land lines Sep 12 21:51:22 Eguy: but your funny, and here thats all that matters Sep 12 21:51:26 Eguy: i see Sep 12 21:51:36 kesne: rwhitby doesn't think so :P Sep 12 21:51:37 Eguy: so the 450 minutes is for landlines? Sep 12 21:51:44 en0x: yes Sep 12 21:51:48 en0x: yeah Sep 12 21:51:51 kk thx Sep 12 21:51:58 now its much clearer Sep 12 21:52:01 Eguy: Well rwhitby is all serious Sep 12 21:52:10 I'm not so serious Sep 12 21:53:13 wait, kesne, you DIDNT make a video recording app. Sep 12 21:53:21 Yeah Sep 12 21:53:29 Your point? Sep 12 21:53:44 damn, i've been telling everyone i know you did! Sep 12 21:53:45 lol Sep 12 21:53:49 :P Sep 12 21:54:19 Is rwhitby even here Sep 12 21:54:21 Well Sep 12 21:54:21 I mean Sep 12 21:54:23 He is her Sep 12 21:54:25 *here Sep 12 21:54:30 but is he activly present? Sep 12 21:54:37 doesnt look like it Sep 12 21:54:43 I think he is in S3 asleep Sep 12 21:54:58 There's my computer nerd joke of the day Sep 12 21:54:59 he went nighty night. Sep 12 21:57:10 what's the deal with filecoaster is that like a closed source preware? what's the point of it? ;x Sep 12 21:58:21 preware blows. Sep 12 21:58:44 * oil makes himself op and bans Decimation Sep 12 21:58:48 lol Sep 12 21:58:50 xD Sep 12 21:59:03 filecoaster is cool in that it allows you to input the url of an IPK Sep 12 21:59:08 but it sucks UI-wise Sep 12 21:59:16 preware > FC in that regard Sep 12 21:59:18 oil has the crapiest apps in the homebrew catalog Sep 12 21:59:34 Who would want a blocked game? Sep 12 21:59:45 ;) Sep 12 22:00:07 you can't joke about that Sep 12 22:00:10 blocked is the best app. Sep 12 22:00:16 Pretty much Sep 12 22:01:03 only second to Luna Manager Sep 12 22:01:31 I think vitetris is cooler Sep 12 22:01:32 well good thing i made both of them Sep 12 22:01:33 but that's just me Sep 12 22:01:33 lawls Sep 12 22:02:02 oil: I was kidding, Luna Manager also sucks :P Sep 12 22:02:11 awwww Sep 12 22:02:24 The best app is prelease Sep 12 22:02:36 service Sep 12 22:03:02 well Sep 12 22:03:26 i've played with almost every app that interests me and have made every tweak that would interest me on the wiki, I guess I have to learn to develop now >> Sep 12 22:03:44 off you go into dev land Sep 12 22:04:19 it's too bad i'm shitty at web development as it is and that's what the whole os is based around >> Sep 12 22:04:42 Icon Ideas Sep 12 22:04:46 For Checkers Pro Sep 12 22:04:48 http://www.digi-guy.com/checkers64a.png Sep 12 22:04:49 penises Sep 12 22:04:50 many Sep 12 22:04:52 many penises Sep 12 22:04:58 http://www.digi-guy.com/checkers64b.png Sep 12 22:05:05 Which is better? Sep 12 22:05:11 oooo Sep 12 22:05:22 so basically Sep 12 22:05:24 I personally like the first one Sep 12 22:05:27 its more 'classy' imo Sep 12 22:05:29 you saw that you got downloads Sep 12 22:05:36 and are now like "oh, a pro version you gotta pay for!" Sep 12 22:05:37 ? Sep 12 22:05:40 "I paid for this app and all I got was this large penis icon" Sep 12 22:05:47 YES Sep 12 22:05:52 that's the spirit eguy Sep 12 22:05:57 Oil: no Sep 12 22:06:07 I always had the intention to make a pro version Sep 12 22:06:12 ah Sep 12 22:06:20 In fact Sep 12 22:06:23 * Eguy thinks the popularity has gone to kesne's head and he has gotten cocky Sep 12 22:06:32 eguy is right Sep 12 22:06:37 Not at all Sep 12 22:06:38 thus explains the penis icon Sep 12 22:06:50 I'm not cocky at all Sep 12 22:06:54 How am I? Sep 12 22:06:57 Elaborate Sep 12 22:06:58 silly 'pro version' stuff, what happened to the gpl, what happened to the LOVE Sep 12 22:07:06 Well Sep 12 22:07:07 gpl is a LIE Sep 12 22:07:15 like obama Sep 12 22:07:20 Just stick with Homebrew Sep 12 22:07:27 It'll have most of the pro features Sep 12 22:07:35 and easter eggs with Megan Fox Sep 12 22:07:38 the gpl is not a lie, the gpl lives on in neckbeards everywhere! Sep 12 22:07:51 ugh she is not pretty what is with the obsession of megan fox Sep 12 22:08:11 It's a joke Sep 12 22:08:15 We talked about earlier Sep 12 22:08:17 Stick with it Sep 12 22:08:18 oh Sep 12 22:08:20 my bad Sep 12 22:08:23 :P Sep 12 22:08:26 the log is too long Sep 12 22:08:28 I actually originally planned on charging for checkers Sep 12 22:08:29 Yeah Sep 12 22:08:31 It happenes Sep 12 22:08:33 cause of my nonsense chat Sep 12 22:08:43 But Checkers HB will have easter eggs Sep 12 22:08:47 ;) Sep 12 22:08:58 the HB version is always better than the catalog one Sep 12 22:09:01 like gdial pro Sep 12 22:09:04 Yeah Sep 12 22:09:11 * oil waits until the ai stops moving its piece back and forth forever Sep 12 22:09:12 because the catalog is LAME Sep 12 22:09:18 Haha Sep 12 22:09:22 That's smart Sep 12 22:09:28 It keeps it from dying Sep 12 22:09:29 kesne: the computer chetas Sep 12 22:09:33 cheats Sep 12 22:09:35 How so? Sep 12 22:09:35 its not smart Sep 12 22:09:37 its retarded Sep 12 22:09:42 someone wrote that Sep 12 22:09:42 I agree Sep 12 22:09:45 I can't get over it Sep 12 22:09:48 in the reviews Sep 12 22:09:51 Haha Sep 12 22:09:56 The reviews are hilarious Sep 12 22:09:58 i dont play the ai so it will play like a 5 year old who doesnt want to lose their piece Sep 12 22:09:58 http://www.digi-guy.com/c64x64c.png Sep 12 22:09:59 Or that one Sep 12 22:10:02 the 5 year old can get away with it Sep 12 22:10:08 your ai made me delete the app Sep 12 22:10:11 Haha Sep 12 22:10:13 The AI sucks Sep 12 22:10:16 It's ported Sep 12 22:10:21 And I'm working on fixing it Sep 12 22:10:21 so Sep 12 22:10:28 you're selling a game with an ai you didn't even write? Sep 12 22:10:33 No Sep 12 22:10:37 Checkers is free Sep 12 22:10:39 oopsies Sep 12 22:10:44 checkers pro isnt Sep 12 22:10:50 you just pulled a Joe Biden kesne Sep 12 22:10:54 said too much Sep 12 22:11:07 Checkers Pro won't use the same AI Sep 12 22:11:11 lol Sep 12 22:11:11 I'm writing a new AI Sep 12 22:11:16 Because I'm sick of the old Sep 12 22:11:17 one Sep 12 22:11:20 So :P Sep 12 22:11:34 * oil certainly wont pay for an app that moves its piece back and forth forever Sep 12 22:11:44 ahhh poor joe biden Sep 12 22:11:52 always says one sentence too many Sep 12 22:13:06 Eguy: Haha Sep 12 22:13:12 And Oil: It won't Sep 12 22:13:31 But everyone that asks in here will get pro for free anyway Sep 12 22:13:59 everytime i try to understand code on this thing it just looks like psuedocode Sep 12 22:14:05 it doesn't even look like a real language Sep 12 22:14:07 >> Sep 12 22:15:11 can someone here overclock luna so it isn't so flippin laggy???? geesh Sep 12 22:15:32 The calendar is useless, it make palm os look fast Sep 12 22:15:37 makes Sep 12 22:16:04 Eguy: you mispell a lot, and feel the need to correct it Sep 12 22:16:05 I just dislike the lack of seeing all day alarms on the calendar (i've seen the fix but am too lazy to apply it atm and just hoping palm fixes it) Sep 12 22:16:19 maybe kense can sell you a better calendar based on code he didnt write Sep 12 22:16:29 ba dum ching Sep 12 22:16:34 Oil: :P Sep 12 22:16:34 lol Sep 12 22:16:42 Havent we already gone over that? Sep 12 22:16:43 the o is not capitalized Sep 12 22:16:49 :P Sep 12 22:16:50 kesne: I type faster than I think so I often have typos and I am not happy until I correct them ;) Sep 12 22:16:55 LOL oil Sep 12 22:17:16 maybe agendus for webos will come out Sep 12 22:17:20 and not suck Sep 12 22:17:35 oil: will it make you feel better if Checkers Pro is free? Sep 12 22:17:48 anybody know what rwhitby's up to in donations? Sep 12 22:17:50 i could care less what you do with your app Sep 12 22:17:56 it takes up to 15 seconds to load a day for me in my Pre's calendar....its insane Sep 12 22:17:57 Saw that someone else posted... Sep 12 22:18:01 could? Sep 12 22:18:02 i mean couldnt Sep 12 22:18:18 :P Sep 12 22:18:20 Ugh Sep 12 22:18:21 Family Sep 12 22:18:29 Got to go everyone Sep 12 22:18:39 I know you'll talk about me while I'm gone Sep 12 22:18:49 heisenman: $120, and the guy with the spare Pre has pulled out. Sep 12 22:19:09 woah rwhitby is awake Sep 12 22:23:56 there you go oil thanks for fixing that Sep 12 22:24:19 eh? Sep 12 22:24:32 could/couldnt Sep 12 22:25:10 oh, yeah Sep 12 22:38:00 heh 8mb download in 1 second Sep 12 22:46:44 rwhitby: you should edit your preware post to also ask for the ipkg status file Sep 12 22:46:47 so we can see what they have installed Sep 12 22:47:12 rtorrent segfaults :< Sep 12 22:47:36 so we can see if all those having problems have the same some other package installed Sep 12 22:49:34 Did you figure out the packaging service crashing issue? Sep 12 22:51:56 rtorrent was running for me but i didn't do anything but load it Sep 12 22:51:59 i think rwhitby ended with blaming it on something else Sep 12 22:55:19 Hmm. I don't suppose anyone has set up an HTTP proxy in front of the emulator before? hoping to debug some HTTP requests from an app Sep 12 22:56:26 Eguy: overclock software? Sep 12 22:56:36 :-/ Sep 12 22:56:56 Hey all Sep 12 22:57:30 lmorchard: you can put a transparent proxy in front or just sniff the network (set up an open wifi for instance or use usbnet and use tcpdump or wireshar) Sep 12 22:57:30 hey Sep 12 22:57:32 loser. Sep 12 22:57:36 xD Sep 12 22:57:57 rwhitby: someone had a spare pre to give you and they didnt! Sep 12 22:58:43 does anyone know if sprint insurance covers losing your phone? Sep 12 22:58:54 I don't think so Sep 12 23:00:51 Decimation, sure it doesn't, with a $100 deductable Sep 12 23:01:01 i mean *does Sep 12 23:01:18 rwhitby: give me a 100 dollars and a pre is as good as yours :) Sep 12 23:01:33 dude Sep 12 23:01:40 It's true, he's underage, the feds won't charge him, and au won't export you Sep 12 23:01:40 that's been donated already. Sep 12 23:02:01 Also, it's insurance fraud and a felony, with jail time involved, as well as immoral and unethical ;) Sep 12 23:02:05 destinal: increase the fsb of luna :P Sep 12 23:02:10 * zsoc shakes his no-no finger at Decimation Sep 12 23:02:35 i lost it Sep 12 23:02:40 then found it after i got my new one Sep 12 23:02:54 Decimation, and this channel is logged, clearly you have already failed. Sep 12 23:03:12 or you are quite the prognosticator Sep 12 23:03:22 bahhh. they wont look into it!! Sep 12 23:03:29 oh my god card view: click to get into messaging card = LAGGGGGGGGGGGGG Sep 12 23:03:58 Eguy: there is a lot of lag getting into apps Sep 12 23:04:05 I think 1.2 fixes that lot Sep 12 23:04:16 especially if you tap on a card to get back into it Sep 12 23:04:17 Who are your parents? Ghengus Khan and Hitler? Sep 12 23:04:26 woah zsoc Sep 12 23:04:30 Eguy, maybe it's just your pre Sep 12 23:04:36 It isnt Sep 12 23:04:38 Same here Sep 12 23:04:45 Eguy, you're right, Khan wasn't so unethical. Sep 12 23:04:50 My pre knows I hate it Sep 12 23:05:12 kesne, may i ask why you are no longer the winner? Sep 12 23:05:29 why is it so hot Sep 12 23:06:12 Eguy, are you at sea level in Ecuador? Sep 12 23:06:21 zsoc: Elaborate? Winner? Sep 12 23:06:25 zsoc: How did you know? Sep 12 23:06:32 kesne, well you used to be the winner, now it appears you are the loser Sep 12 23:06:43 How so? Sep 12 23:07:18 look at your name... Sep 12 23:07:21 lol. Sep 12 23:08:37 Ah Sep 12 23:08:49 :P Sep 12 23:08:59 I will tell you how he is a loser, this is an imposter Sep 12 23:09:01 ... Sep 12 23:09:06 Haha Sep 12 23:09:13 Nah Sep 12 23:09:17 This is the real Kesne Sep 12 23:09:21 lies Sep 12 23:09:32 Otherwise I wouldnt care how many DL's checkers has Sep 12 23:09:39 whois kesne_the_winner Sep 12 23:09:44 Neither do we Sep 12 23:09:50 :P Sep 12 23:09:53 you'll see the truth then Sep 12 23:10:10 24404 by the way Sep 12 23:10:13 Ugh Sep 12 23:10:25 do you get points for downloads or something? lol Sep 12 23:10:30 i'm telling you man, make a chess game Sep 12 23:10:32 kesne does Sep 12 23:10:38 I am making a chess game Sep 12 23:10:46 * zsoc gives kesne a point Sep 12 23:10:46 Didn't I already demo it? Sep 12 23:10:46 he gets cocky points Sep 12 23:10:59 Haha Sep 12 23:11:00 Nah Sep 12 23:11:00 ego points Sep 12 23:11:03 kesne, chess game online = unlimited super saiyajinn points Sep 12 23:11:10 :D Sep 12 23:11:33 lol, didn't we already talk about this? Sep 12 23:11:37 Yes Sep 12 23:11:57 Ego Points for sure Sep 12 23:11:58 Haha Sep 12 23:12:01 great, if its online, i can play against people and just move my piece back and forth forever until they quit or sacrifice their piece Sep 12 23:12:01 Just Kidding Sep 12 23:12:06 itl be just like playing the computer Sep 12 23:12:16 oil: LMAO Sep 12 23:12:42 Also: I actually don't have a large ego Sep 12 23:12:46 oil: lmao, and i thought i was the only one. Sep 12 23:12:46 I know that Oil is better than me Sep 12 23:13:05 And same with Eguy, but in a different manner Sep 12 23:13:06 cause capital o's are better Sep 12 23:13:24 They are, sorry Sep 12 23:13:26 *oil Sep 12 23:13:29 Habbits... Sep 12 23:14:15 Oil is a douche Sep 12 23:14:22 oil is a cool lad Sep 12 23:14:23 xd Sep 12 23:14:28 *xD Sep 12 23:14:42 I want this for pre: http://www.frappster.com/2009/09/01/f1-timing-app-2009-championship-pass-soft-pauer/ Sep 12 23:16:20 Eguy, why would you want that unless you watch f1? Sep 12 23:17:03 I do Sep 12 23:17:25 oh. Sep 12 23:18:46 I'm an avid F1 van Sep 12 23:18:53 which version of vbox do i need for the emulator? I'm running a slightly dated 3.0 beta that it doesn't like Sep 12 23:19:11 dont tell me f1 just does circles Sep 12 23:19:21 quite wrong oil Sep 12 23:20:24 well its not so bad then Sep 12 23:20:29 It's not in english but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS-h6eXKT8E the starts are alsways interesting Sep 12 23:20:35 always Sep 12 23:20:40 im not going to watch a video of a race Sep 12 23:20:54 It's 3 minutes Sep 12 23:21:09 3 minutes, 3 hours Sep 12 23:21:11 it doesnt matter Sep 12 23:21:17 lol Sep 12 23:22:13 Don't dis on that stuff Sep 12 23:22:46 im not dissing Sep 12 23:22:49 hes fine to like it Sep 12 23:22:50 i dont Sep 12 23:22:54 so im not goint to watch his video Sep 12 23:22:58 F1 drivers are more athletes than any other sports Sep 12 23:23:03 lol Sep 12 23:23:15 5g's under braking Sep 12 23:23:35 4.5g's in turns Sep 12 23:24:04 while going over 100mph Sep 12 23:25:58 It's just a shame in the US they don't cover it like the do in europe Sep 12 23:32:55 lol, don't go calling someone MORE of an athelete than another athelete. Sep 12 23:33:00 thats just dumb. Sep 12 23:33:26 omg I just ran hello world in an emulator, the long the deary path has started, expect lots of cheetos, lots of pop tarts, lots of caffeinated nights and lots of bitching Sep 12 23:33:33 either that ... or I give up in a few days Sep 12 23:33:36 we'll see what happens. Sep 12 23:35:15 punzada, let's hope both Sep 12 23:35:56 zsoc: encouraging bitching? Sep 12 23:36:20 bahh Sep 12 23:36:29 my connection just dies, randomly. Sep 12 23:36:30 imposter Sep 12 23:36:39 :P Sep 12 23:37:03 connection failure, one of the bugs in your video recording app kesne. Sep 12 23:37:18 connection failure to the camera Sep 12 23:37:19 lol Sep 12 23:37:30 i think 'working' is the largest bug Sep 12 23:37:55 inside joke - SOWWY GUYS Sep 12 23:39:59 just don't get a girlfriend.. then you'll never know what's inbetween lines 26 and 27 Sep 12 23:40:43 lol, yeah, who sent that to me Sep 12 23:40:44 oil? Sep 12 23:40:57 * Decimation_ thinks its funny zsoc is looking back in the log to find the inside joke :) Sep 12 23:41:06 zsoc is the one who made that image Sep 12 23:41:25 * oil thinks decimation should have looked back in the log Sep 12 23:42:00 oil: plee3 is another java oom immediately after he starts Preware Sep 12 23:42:12 * oil doesnt know Sep 12 23:42:16 lol, oops. Sep 12 23:42:18 oil, it's ok, when i was 14 i said some of the stupidest garbage you could imagine. Sep 12 23:42:32 the ONLY thing that might make it better Sep 12 23:42:37 I could imagine Sep 12 23:42:57 is the installation is currently the only part getting the service handlers and then .close()ing them Sep 12 23:43:10 maybe if i add all that junk to the startup itl help Sep 12 23:43:12 but, i dont know Sep 12 23:43:21 my phone doesnt have the problems everyone else seems to have Sep 12 23:43:36 yeah, neither does mine ;-) Sep 12 23:43:51 ^ lol Sep 12 23:44:38 rwhitby, speaking of which, how is that going? Sep 12 23:44:39 oil: mine either.. lol Sep 12 23:45:04 zsoc: $120, and the guy with the spare pre pulled out, so back to square one. Sep 12 23:45:08 I have cured the problem by using the keyboard ot dial Sep 12 23:45:14 to Sep 12 23:45:28 rwhitby, bah, well at least he'll never have kids Sep 12 23:45:58 Eguy, you could cure the problem permanently by just using a centro :P Sep 12 23:46:05 yes Sep 12 23:46:24 * Eguy want's my non-laggy agendus :( Sep 12 23:47:14 do you need to check your calendar that much? ;x Sep 12 23:47:28 plus my centro lasts 3 weeks with the phone radio off Sep 12 23:48:07 punzada: Yes, I do have a job that requires a lot of appointments ;) Sep 12 23:48:10 i bet thats great for reception Sep 12 23:48:25 lol Sep 12 23:49:16 brb Sep 12 23:51:04 oil: hmm - just found a smell of ipkgservice involvement in the OOM: Sep 12 23:51:14 (in the oom report that plee3 posted) Sep 12 23:51:31 Thread #18: tid=1643 Name=org.webosinternals.ipkgservice Class=java.lang.Thread RunnableClass=org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.IPKGService Object=0x40791a1c Sep 12 23:51:31 RUNNING, has heap mutex Sep 12 23:51:33 java.lang.AbstractStringBuilder.enlargeBuffer(AbstractStringBuilder.java:110) Sep 12 23:51:49 so, do we have any Java gurus in the house? Sep 12 23:54:11 eep, thats an exception in an internal java class Sep 12 23:54:15 out of memory ? Sep 12 23:55:08 hmmm Sep 12 23:55:21 or a class inmplementing abstractstringbuilder is implementing it incorrectly Sep 13 00:00:27 I reckon I should be able to stat the file, then allocate the string to the right size, then read the file into it. Sep 13 00:00:59 the problem is the file is read line by line. Sep 13 00:01:31 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=blob;f=org/webosinternals/ipkgservice/IPKGService.java Sep 13 00:01:52 lines 109 to 129 Sep 13 00:02:04 and 131 to 156 Sep 13 00:02:38 I need help from a Java guru on how to reduce the memory usage of those two functions. Sep 13 00:09:51 how big, generally, are the files you are reading Sep 13 00:11:25 im assuming they are plain text files, not too big Sep 13 00:12:55 if so, get file size, and load the entire file into string, and then do search n replace for line delim maybe Sep 13 00:13:11 though stringbuilder is said to be memory concious Sep 13 00:13:16 coded so, anyway Sep 13 00:13:22 extends string buffer instead of allocating a new one Sep 13 00:13:23 etc Sep 13 00:13:46 but if you know the size of the data your'e loading, why not allocate all at once Sep 13 00:14:07 raeb: largest is 382K Sep 13 00:14:39 raeb: I'm a Java newbie, so a patch would be very welcome from a Java guru Sep 13 00:15:31 and we can tell how big it is (I assume) by stat'ing the file (but I have not done that in Java before - I can do it easily in C, Perl, Python, ... ;-) Sep 13 00:16:13 anyone on the channel know much about the depot functions? Sep 13 00:16:54 * oil knows that it sucks Sep 13 00:17:31 every app I've looked at, including the news app in the book uses methods that are not documente Sep 13 00:18:21 medicnancy: welcome to palm's documentation Sep 13 00:18:26 nothing is in the documents Sep 13 00:18:28 I'm just about ready to use the HTML 5 stuff. seems like more work then I want to do Sep 13 00:19:00 depot != html5 Sep 13 00:19:42 I know Sep 13 00:19:48 File f=new File(file); FileReader fr=new FileReader(f); char[] c = new char[(int)f.length()]; fr.read(c,0,(int)f.length()); Sep 13 00:20:10 c.toString() = your file, with line breaks still innit Sep 13 00:21:18 do a replace on it for your delim Sep 13 00:21:23 either regexp Sep 13 00:21:24 or whatever Sep 13 00:21:57 raeb: oh, in readList I need to count the Packages: lines Sep 13 00:22:18 that will actually be the big one, the non-list files are small Sep 13 00:22:47 return new String(c).replace('\n', (char)delim); Sep 13 00:23:05 rwhitby: i dont think im actually using that count you send Sep 13 00:23:09 unless delim is more than 1 char Sep 13 00:23:54 raeb: actually, in this case the delim will be \n for the lists files, so we can leave as-is Sep 13 00:24:03 sweet, return new String(c); Sep 13 00:24:44 ok, so that allocates twice the size of the file temporarily, and then char[] c goes out of scope and gets collected some time later. Sep 13 00:25:02 any way to do it with only allocating the size of the file max? Sep 13 00:25:28 new char[...] allocates memory for the file, fr.read shoudl read it directly into that memory Sep 13 00:25:47 right, but you do another new in the return Sep 13 00:25:53 return new String(C) may reallocate, so instead use return (string) c; Sep 13 00:26:15 yeah, cast to string should be ok, i'd think Sep 13 00:26:20 i'm not a java guru hehe Sep 13 00:26:43 I also wonder whether it will be better for the service to allocate on each call, or just keep a single global allocation of the largest file and reuse that for each call to readList Sep 13 00:26:45 * oil wonders if the service should simply be rewritten in c now that there is headers Sep 13 00:27:48 oil: I haven't seen a working example of an application using a C service with subscriptions yet. Sep 13 00:28:04 but I'm sure it's not far off. Sep 13 00:28:15 yeah, maybe... if you release your memory pointers java mem manager shoujdl clean it up Sep 13 00:28:15 well i could whip up an app for puffs battery service real fast Sep 13 00:28:20 if you just need to see it Sep 13 00:28:33 but to avoid garbage collection, you can allocate your list buffer at a higher scope and reuse it Sep 13 00:29:48 hey yall Sep 13 00:30:44 * zsoc peers at joesmith Sep 13 00:30:45 hey Sep 13 00:31:33 what is the name of the development chat room, I forgot :D Sep 13 00:32:14 joesmith: this one, and #webos Sep 13 00:32:27 ohh its just webos Sep 13 00:32:36 I feel silly Sep 13 00:32:45 you should Sep 13 00:32:50 xD Sep 13 00:33:16 hmm my question might be ok in here, where are app cookies stored? Sep 13 00:33:23 definitely, very silly Sep 13 00:33:31 ;( Sep 13 00:33:44 on the pre Sep 13 00:33:47 more sill Sep 13 00:33:48 y Sep 13 00:33:52 lol Sep 13 00:34:05 in a folder Sep 13 00:34:18 do you know what folder? Sep 13 00:34:25 its probably named cookies Sep 13 00:34:31 but no, i dont know Sep 13 00:34:45 i'd imagine the one you store them in Sep 13 00:35:29 right..... well I was under the impression the app cookies were all in a central location Sep 13 00:36:26 find cookies doesn't get me anywhere, but i'm not terribly familiar with the find command Sep 13 00:38:31 heh, i found his answer, good thing he's patient. Sep 13 00:46:30 oil: I thought of another alternative: You could subscribe to rawlist, and get back an initial package with total file size, then individual messages of about 1K or so each (containing up to that size of complete Package entries), and then a final flag in the last packet. Then you could do the progress bar according to the size of data received, and I can only need to allocate 1K at a time. Sep 13 00:46:51 s/initial package/initia packet/ Sep 13 00:46:51 rwhitby meant: oil: I thought of another alternative: You could subscribe to rawlist, and get back an initia packet with total file size, then individual messages of about 1K or so each (containing up to that size of complete Package entries), and then a final flag in t... Sep 13 00:47:24 save sending 385K across dbus in one hit ... Sep 13 00:47:35 we think thats the problem? Sep 13 00:51:28 the problem, it's sending 385k across dbus in one hit. Sep 13 00:53:47 Hello, I'm Gregoire Gentil, the founder of Always Innnovating, the guy behind the Touch Book: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com. This device run an OMAP3530, a touchscreen, an accelerometer, a keyboard, very similar to the Pre. I would like to try to run webOS on it. I have extracted a July-2009 webOS rootfs to the SD second partition and used our kernel http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/wiki/index.php/Kernel. The s Sep 13 00:54:25 rwhitby: if we think thats the problem, make the change to the service, and ill change the app Sep 13 00:54:29 we can see if it fixes anything Sep 13 00:55:42 hello all Sep 13 00:55:49 gregoiregentil, are you a telemarketer? Sep 13 00:56:21 zsoc: No! Sep 13 00:58:03 gregoiregentil, oh.. ok. that message seemed particularly scripted is all Sep 13 00:58:13 zsoc: Not sure to understand your question. The Touch Book is a cool device and a serious effort based on OMAP3530 (Beagleboard-like). We have optimized our own OS (starting from OE/Angstrom) and we are now investigating some other OS including Android and WebOS Sep 13 00:58:53 I'm not spaming here... My objective is to run WebOS on a device which is not a Palm Pre. A cool challenge... Sep 13 00:59:25 I agree, that is a cool challenge indeed. Sep 13 01:00:09 the funny part is that our device + our kernel + the WebOS rootfs works! I mean, I get something like shown here: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/download/webos.jpg Sep 13 01:00:22 I love webos, i think it would be a pretty good system for netbook type devices. what parts of it are copyrighted? Sep 13 01:00:37 PreHero: you mean the Touch Book? Sep 13 01:00:41 we are quite open source Sep 13 01:00:46 webos isnt Sep 13 01:00:55 Go to our wiki, you will see that we are publishing as much as we can Sep 13 01:01:08 I meant webos Sep 13 01:01:19 I think its great that your product is so open! Sep 13 01:01:22 I don't intend to do anything commercial with WebOS. Right now, I'm just taking a look and want to do a proof of concept. Nothing more Sep 13 01:01:40 Kind of an odd ball question, but I was talking today to someone that said them and their son and his friend (both with developer Android handsets) set up an SSL like Certificate encrypting their SMS messaging to one another on their Android phones. I've tried searching the web for information on this but came up blank. 1.) Could this be possible? 2.) If yes, would it be possible to do on... Sep 13 01:01:42 ...the Pre with it's Certificate management? Sep 13 01:02:25 msbullock: maybe? Sep 13 01:02:45 er. doesn't pidgin support some type of encryption? Sep 13 01:03:34 So, if anybody has any clue about the video on the Palm Pre / WebOS, I'm interested to discuss. We are using DSS2 on our system and as I see something on my screen, I guess that WebOS is using something similar. Sep 13 01:03:44 gregoiregentil, how does your chip compare to the ones in the pre? are they able to support the openGL standards? Sep 13 01:03:53 Exactly, the same... Sep 13 01:04:02 We have some 3D OpenGL games too Sep 13 01:04:18 we have also the same DSP video chip like on the Pre Sep 13 01:04:32 Hardware, it's very close. Sep 13 01:05:15 hmm, the idea is that if its able to run on the one system, it should be able to port with a little elbow greasy, in theory Sep 13 01:06:36 The virtual keyboard doesn't display the key's actual size the all get sized the same causing big layout problems Sep 13 01:07:34 Unfortunately webOS is not opensource, and therefore i imagine would be very difficult to port. Sep 13 01:09:26 I'm not trying to port anything. More to glue different pieces for a proof of concept Sep 13 01:09:29 oil: let's see whether splitting into chunks slows anything down Sep 13 01:09:37 do i hear talk of webOS on a PC? Sep 13 01:09:46 oil: we can always adjust the chunk size to optimise speed vs space Sep 13 01:09:49 Decimation_, adults are talking now, shush Sep 13 01:10:00 zsoc: lmao, cut it out. Sep 13 01:10:05 ouch Sep 13 01:10:05 Decimation_: Correct. Sep 13 01:10:14 that was pretty harsh zsoc Sep 13 01:10:22 not even I would of said such a thing Sep 13 01:10:57 gregoiregentil: you know that you can't redistribute webOS, right? Sep 13 01:11:17 it's proprietary Palm code, not open source. Sep 13 01:11:45 Is that the universal measurment of harshness? Would Eguy say it? -> Not so harsh. Would Eguy not even say it? -> Harsh Sep 13 01:11:50 rwhitby: yes. it's what I wrote above in this chat room. No commercial effort here. Sep 13 01:12:04 yes zsoc Sep 13 01:12:20 rwhitby: I'm just trying for fun to run this cool WebOS on a different hardware. Proof of concept and learning experience. Nothing more. Sep 13 01:12:34 gregoiregentil: no probs, just making sure :-) Sep 13 01:13:06 rwhitby: it's a good question and it's now clear for the records in case a Palm employee reads that... Sep 13 01:13:19 im not even sure how webos would feel on a netbookk/tablet Sep 13 01:13:36 gregoiregentil: there seem to be lots of people (not you) who seem to think that webOS is open source, and the one thing that Palm has specifically come into this channel to warn us about is redistributing copyright files. Sep 13 01:13:42 please state your intensions for the record Mr. gregoiregentil :P Sep 13 01:13:53 zsoc: cut the age jokes please ;) Sep 13 01:13:55 oil: I would reckon a bit small Sep 13 01:13:59 it might even be more interesting to rebuild something from the ground up, touch screen linux overlay wise Sep 13 01:14:08 i mean, cards are nice and all on a 3 inch screen Sep 13 01:14:22 but wouldn't i want to be able to have more the one up for interaction on a larger screen? Sep 13 01:14:31 like a browser window AND email Sep 13 01:14:38 instead of having to constantly switch back and forth? Sep 13 01:14:46 seems like you would just use a full os on such a device Sep 13 01:14:56 foleo redux Sep 13 01:15:33 rwhitby: feel free to make the change, and ill do hte mojo Sep 13 01:16:17 Well, that's an interesting discussion, and I'm sure that the Palm folks have made a lot of thinking about this. I was hoping to have more technical information and ideas to move in my funny/non-commercial/proof-of-concept experience. Sep 13 01:19:29 gregoiregentil: sure, this is a good place to have that discussion on that basis. Sep 13 01:19:49 oil: ok, but not today, maybe in 9 or 10 hours time. Sep 13 01:20:02 rwhitby: thanks. Sep 13 01:20:09 well thats only 2am my time xD Sep 13 01:22:15 and 7 over here lol. Sep 13 01:23:22 The virtual keyboard on my pre doesn't display the keys properly Sep 13 01:23:29 Help please Sep 13 01:23:55 rwhitby: re: ipkgservice... it reallly annoying me that everytime it installs it changes the fs back to ro... i think it should store the state before an install/remove and then restore the state afterwards Sep 13 01:23:57 * oil doesnt know anything about the keyboard Sep 13 01:24:31 PuffTheMagic: sure Sep 13 01:25:02 cool, thanks Sep 13 01:26:06 PuffTheMagic: feel free to make the change if you get to it before me - I won't be touching it for about 5 hours, then I'll be working on this memory problem. Sep 13 01:26:29 Can anyone help me with my keyboard prob Sep 13 01:26:50 oh im in no rush... i just did a huge overhaul to my battery service to support monitoring stuff besides the battery Sep 13 01:27:18 PuffTheMagic: cool. no worries. Sep 13 01:27:21 rwhitby: did you have any interest in doing ipkgservice over in C? Sep 13 01:27:53 PuffTheMagic: yeah, I think it should be that eventually. Sep 13 01:28:52 well now that i know enough about to do subscriptions in C it shouldnt be too hard to make it in C Sep 13 01:29:10 didnt you say there is libipkg Sep 13 01:29:42 PuffTheMagic: I'll be watching to see how well the battery app and service work together, including how easy your installation postinst and prerm are. Sep 13 01:30:29 yes, there is a libipkg I think. Sep 13 01:30:42 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 13 01:31:26 * Decimation_ is disappointed he can so quickly interprit what bbiab means... what has the internet done to me. Sep 13 01:31:46 lol Sep 13 01:33:17 lol Sep 13 01:38:29 * zsoc remembers the day he figured out what bbiab meant Sep 13 01:39:39 * Decimation_ sadly can't remember a time when he didn't :/ Sep 13 01:44:54 does anyone know offhand where to find copyrights for a particular game? Sep 13 01:45:52 the copany that created the game in question (Hexxagon) was Argo Games, who no longer exist Sep 13 01:51:52 PreHero: wikipedia sometimes says. Sep 13 01:55:56 PreHero: frequently the idea of "created" is fuzzy consider "reversi" vs "othello" Sep 13 01:56:14 the latter term is a trade mark, but the GAME, invented in 1890, went out of patent a long time ago. Sep 13 01:57:02 Also, recognize that there is a difference between COPYRIGHT and PATENT. you can not copyright a games game-play-mechanism. You can COPYRIGHT the board, but the game itself, the process of moving pieces or whatever, can only be patented, and that only lasts 17 years. Sep 13 02:00:40 People tend to get in trouble when they say "The webOS version of ____" Sep 13 02:01:10 Templarian: palm says thats what you are supposed to do.. Sep 13 02:02:17 ok, who's ready to do a sanity test on a new ipkgservice ? Sep 13 02:02:41 ::Rick Hides his head under the desk and screams "NO NO NOT TONIGHT NO!!!" :-) Sep 13 02:03:31 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.7_all.ipk Sep 13 02:03:49 I need someone to tell me it works fine with current Preware version before I release it publicly. Sep 13 02:05:35 rwhitby: whats it do? lol Sep 13 02:05:59 this one does the reduction in memory reallocations as per the discussion with raeb earlier. Sep 13 02:06:37 im installing it along with the current preware on a stock phone. Sep 13 02:06:42 raeb_: I had to do the new String at the end - for some reason fr.read returned 40 less bytes than what f.length said. Sep 13 02:07:17 rwhitby: works fine.. Sep 13 02:08:31 Decimation: Were exactly do they say that? Sep 13 02:08:55 so if i want to recreate the experience of hexxagon on the pre, what are my options? Sep 13 02:09:21 Templarian: idk, some guy on precentral asked about copyright name issues Sep 13 02:09:25 PreHero: don't say hexxagon. Just rename it and make the game. Sep 13 02:09:34 and some posted with a link to some palm forum post or something Sep 13 02:09:37 and it said that. Sep 13 02:11:07 thanks...ive never written for webos, so i was going to try the instructions for porting over javascript games on the site Sep 13 02:12:41 ipkgservice 0.8.7 is now in the public feeds. Sep 13 02:13:16 is there a webOS widget that allows a developer to make a list with checkboxes next to em? Sep 13 02:13:22 like, next to each entry in the list. Sep 13 02:26:44 Decimation: re: copyright, it honestly doesn't matter what palm says Sep 13 02:27:52 Decimation: and as Rick_home mentioned, the only real issues with games if you're not copying code or images are only trademark (on the name) and patent (on the rules) Sep 13 02:28:13 Decimation: yes, it's called a LIST Sep 13 02:28:19 a list can have ANYTHING in it Sep 13 02:28:54 Rick_home: i was saying something along the lines for an app that allows you to check a bunch of contacts, for mass text messaging Sep 13 02:29:08 or possibily a change to the contact selection scene in the messaging app Sep 13 02:29:19 would this have that use. Sep 13 02:31:34 whats going on tonight?? Sep 13 02:33:59 theo: new version of ipkgservice which hopefully doesn't trigger oom's Sep 13 02:34:39 awesome, havent gone throught the logs yet, have you started alpha testing yet Sep 13 02:34:59 * theo now going through the logs to see what he missed Sep 13 02:35:41 theo: it's in the public feeds. Sep 13 02:37:10 rwhitby: 0.8.7 correct?? Sep 13 02:37:14 yep Sep 13 02:37:33 checking it out Sep 13 02:37:43 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1889721 Sep 13 02:39:34 never had that problem, connections never reset, however every so often i would need to restart luna to restart the package manager Sep 13 02:42:47 seems like everything works well Sep 13 02:43:10 * oil hopes so Sep 13 02:43:22 * oil gets back to work on using flags Sep 13 02:44:24 oil: yeah, I'm hoping this is a quick fix for those problems, and we can do the longer term improvement later. Sep 13 02:44:31 * rwhitby bbl Sep 13 02:44:34 (just installed it and everything appears to work good, but never had those problems described). Sep 13 02:51:25 * theo crossing his fingers hoping to see ohio state win tonight Sep 13 02:58:06 * theo wonders if oil ever won that checkers game **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 13 02:59:56 2009