**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 13 02:59:56 2009 Sep 13 03:02:54 ugh Sep 13 03:03:09 I'm the only one not drunk at a party Sep 13 03:03:11 hmm since the update, i'm having trouble getting preware to load. Sep 13 03:03:27 thats never fun Sep 13 03:03:31 Yeah Sep 13 03:03:33 Well Sep 13 03:03:42 It'd be bad if I was drunk Sep 13 03:04:00 only if you remember Sep 13 03:04:06 Nah Sep 13 03:04:08 I'm 15 Sep 13 03:04:17 yes then that would be bad...lol Sep 13 03:04:24 haha Sep 13 03:05:00 get off the computer and go get drunk Sep 13 03:05:01 yay, loaded on 5th try. Sep 13 03:06:04 * oil gets another jack and coke, brb Sep 13 03:06:14 lol Sep 13 03:06:55 I hate being at a party full of drunks Sep 13 03:06:58 :-( Sep 13 03:07:01 sorry for you Sep 13 03:08:17 Haha Sep 13 03:08:19 It sucks Sep 13 03:08:32 Alright Sep 13 03:08:34 got to go Sep 13 03:10:38 got the new package, everything seems to be running better for me...ive had the problems with loading. ive started up 10 times so far, it works everytime vs about a 60-40 split before Sep 13 03:10:57 sorry, talking about the preware package manager Sep 13 03:11:24 every other time i run preware, the ipkg manager crashes my jvm Sep 13 03:11:28 it's kind of interesting Sep 13 03:11:34 always an out of heap memory crash Sep 13 03:11:37 the new or old? Sep 13 03:11:50 not sure .. 0.8.5 ? Sep 13 03:11:53 so probably old Sep 13 03:12:03 webOS Quick Install is refusing to detect my Pre, so I haven't tried the new package manager yet. Sep 13 03:12:04 yep, go get the 8.7 Sep 13 03:12:35 lol, that sucks...make sure you are in dev mode Sep 13 03:13:18 Dur, that would likely be the issue, lol. You have to be in dev mode for quick install to work? Sep 13 03:13:26 yep Sep 13 03:13:53 I hate having to reboot it so often, but ok. Sep 13 03:14:49 yeah, thats my only complaint lol...i use preware as often as possible for that very reason, that and the fact that its so easy to use! Sep 13 03:15:00 * MrNfector nods Sep 13 03:24:49 MrNfector: you know, there is no need to take your phone out of dev mode ever.. lol Sep 13 03:25:34 Hrm, I thought it presented a security issue? Sep 13 03:26:01 thats also what i hear...dev mode opens up all the ports on your phone correct? Sep 13 03:26:19 lol, there is no "real" security issue. Sep 13 03:26:25 That was my understanding. Sep 13 03:26:48 okay, ports are open. Sep 13 03:26:54 explain to me what is gonna happen. Sep 13 03:27:07 idk check out that thread on pc Sep 13 03:27:19 hes super paranoid someone is gonna hack his pre Sep 13 03:28:25 Well, it is basically just a lowend linux computer you can stick in your pocket. It could happen. =p Sep 13 03:30:31 I'm not that concerned, but there have been vulns regarding phones before, so it's not something I'd just blow off. Sep 13 03:31:32 lol Sep 13 03:33:13 oil, you sayin that you leave your phone in dev mode? Sep 13 03:33:24 yeah Sep 13 03:33:30 mines always in dev mode also Sep 13 03:33:37 rarely a day goes by its not hooked up to my computer being used in said devmode Sep 13 03:33:38 you know Sep 13 03:33:40 to develops Sep 13 03:33:46 develope Sep 13 03:33:49 shit Sep 13 03:34:10 * oil takes another drink of jack and coke Sep 13 03:34:11 hmm, swear i heard something about otherwise...maybe from the tooting instructions is what im thinking Sep 13 03:34:16 * theo just waiting for someone to figure out his evdo ip so they can send him a virus Sep 13 03:34:36 lol.... tooting Sep 13 03:34:47 haha Sep 13 03:35:11 looks like your not the only one doing bicep curls Sep 13 03:35:20 * theo believes the word rooting should be replaced with tooting Sep 13 03:35:49 just kidding, ive just been up for too many hours to not check what im typing lol Sep 13 03:54:21 * geist sends a virus to everyones evdo ip address Sep 13 03:54:39 * geist downloads a script to your /tmp Sep 13 03:55:20 * oil puts some funny shit in there for geist to see Sep 13 03:55:28 haha Sep 13 03:55:30 lol Sep 13 03:57:11 like that "between lines 26 and 27" image Sep 13 03:59:25 geist, hacker Sep 13 03:59:48 aww yeah Sep 13 04:00:04 how goes the weekend, geist ? Sep 13 04:00:13 not too bad Sep 13 04:00:22 just wqandered up to the city to poke around Sep 13 04:00:30 sitting at a coffee shop now, Ritual Sep 13 04:00:47 geist: what city? Sep 13 04:00:49 ooh, did you check out the clover coffee machine there ? Sep 13 04:00:54 yeah, i Sep 13 04:01:02 yeah im sitting about 3 feet from it now Sep 13 04:01:06 just inside the door to the left Sep 13 04:01:26 just reached over and touched it Sep 13 04:01:31 ooohh, fancy Sep 13 04:01:47 though ive visited my buddies at android, and they have one too at google Sep 13 04:02:00 thing with the clovers is its all in the settings Sep 13 04:02:07 you can still make bad cups of coffee with it Sep 13 04:02:19 yeah - i had thought about making one myself.. it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult Sep 13 04:03:47 how do your buddies like it over at google ? Sep 13 04:03:57 i think theyre just as stressed as we are Sep 13 04:04:10 no doubt its a nice place to work, amenity wise Sep 13 04:04:20 but ive seen the android office many times, its a packed mess Sep 13 04:04:27 they have no space Sep 13 04:04:54 but i have a party to go to tomorrow with the dalvik guy. hes a buddy of mine from the danger days Sep 13 04:05:03 ill ask him hows it going nowadays Sep 13 04:05:13 oh awesome - those presentations were very interesting .. Sep 13 04:05:28 yep. a lot of android is a continuation of danger really Sep 13 04:05:39 the bqasic strategy is pretty much the same, a lot of the same key players Sep 13 04:05:49 cool ideas when it came to the dalvik stuff Sep 13 04:06:04 yep, it was a lot of stuff we came up with when at danger, but didnt get a chance to do Sep 13 04:06:14 so a lot of it didnt come out of a vacuum Sep 13 04:06:20 real hard experience led to it Sep 13 04:06:35 i'm pretty happy google has the cash to do as much as it does Sep 13 04:06:45 and let people do what they want as well Sep 13 04:08:34 were you able to do the faster file transfers for novacom ? Sep 13 04:10:57 hmm? Sep 13 04:11:20 what do ou mean? Sep 13 04:11:42 i thought you were going to try sending more windows and be less send wait for ack, send next packet, etc .. Sep 13 04:11:57 oh yeah Sep 13 04:12:08 well, for better or worse i dont really work on novacom anymore Sep 13 04:12:17 we actually just hired a guy a few weeks ago to deal wityh it full time Sep 13 04:12:23 so ive given him the brain dump Sep 13 04:12:42 theres at least one big rewrite that needs to happen on the device side to simplify it Sep 13 04:12:42 wow, cool Sep 13 04:12:52 and theres a lot more emphasis that we need to make on the windows tools Sep 13 04:12:55 since it clearly stinks Sep 13 04:12:59 indeed Sep 13 04:13:17 btw, i put the source to the novaterm for windows back up Sep 13 04:13:41 cool - thanks Sep 13 04:13:51 so yeah, its a mixed bag. id like to have finished off a lot of novacom stuff, but realistically im more useful in other areas Sep 13 04:14:04 so are you back to kernel work ? Sep 13 04:14:07 yeah Sep 13 04:14:17 im much more useful to the company taking things ferom zero to mostly working Sep 13 04:14:25 and then handing it off Sep 13 04:14:30 such as bootie, novacom, etc Sep 13 04:14:36 so bringing up new boards, architectures, etc ? Sep 13 04:15:06 theoretically Sep 13 04:15:15 nice Sep 13 04:15:21 well, its not a real secret that we have more stuff to do Sep 13 04:15:26 absolutely Sep 13 04:15:36 lol Sep 13 04:15:38 clearly i cant tello you about future stuff, but we have more things coming, obviously Sep 13 04:16:13 obviously .. as an employee, do you get a good clear direction from management ? Sep 13 04:16:22 I don't think anyone believes that pre and pixi are the only devices webos will support (or even that the current architecture can't use serious innovations from time to time) Sep 13 04:16:22 yep Sep 13 04:16:26 that's great Sep 13 04:16:35 yeah, cdm keeps me in the loop Sep 13 04:16:40 very awesome Sep 13 04:16:56 i hate being a cog in the system Sep 13 04:17:14 palm is still small enough to know whats going on mostly Sep 13 04:17:22 how many meployees ? Sep 13 04:17:24 employees rather Sep 13 04:17:35 900 or so i think Sep 13 04:17:42 that is pretty good Sep 13 04:17:49 but the kernel team at least has to know pretty much everything that happens Sep 13 04:17:56 we tend to be the first that get exposed to anything new Sep 13 04:17:56 lol Sep 13 04:17:58 yeah Sep 13 04:18:04 indeed Sep 13 04:18:12 you would hope the kernel isn't the last thing on the list Sep 13 04:18:12 lol Sep 13 04:18:15 right Sep 13 04:19:21 i also tend to be the default guy to go visit the factory when in various stages of device building Sep 13 04:19:23 is palm large enough to ask things of companies like TI or Samsung for their processors ... to add better support ? Sep 13 04:19:25 i went to china 3 or 4 times for pre Sep 13 04:19:39 oh, i didn't realize you were into the manufacturing aspect too Sep 13 04:19:47 do you have a group of guys who do the layout for you guys too ? Sep 13 04:19:58 sort of. being that i do bootie, or at leas tknow it better than anyoine else Sep 13 04:20:06 it has a mfg aspect, since its the first thign that runs Sep 13 04:20:25 did you write the factory test as well? Sep 13 04:20:29 so when in the very initial stages of anything, it makes sense to have a bootloader/kernel guy/gal there to debug anything if it happens Sep 13 04:20:32 no, thankfully i didn Sep 13 04:20:34 didnt Sep 13 04:20:52 i did diagnostics in the past, and it sucked Sep 13 04:20:57 heh Sep 13 04:21:02 but since it wrote the bootloader for iphone as well, i had a similar role there Sep 13 04:21:17 went to china a few times for the iphone too ? Sep 13 04:21:23 i have the dubious honor of booting the very first iphone, hot off the assembly line Sep 13 04:21:34 nice Sep 13 04:21:37 we had to fix a couple of voltage regulators, but i booted the first proto Sep 13 04:21:46 congrats Sep 13 04:21:53 yeah, went to china for the iphone Sep 13 04:21:57 Nice. Sep 13 04:22:07 i never see any boards until they've been thoroughly smoke tested and JTAG'd Sep 13 04:22:08 its weird too, since apple and palm tend to stay at the same hotel Sep 13 04:22:19 you go downstairs for breakfast and hook up with your old apple buddies Sep 13 04:22:20 what is the reason for the difference in boot times for the pre vs the iphone? i understand the version differences and time spent on the process Sep 13 04:22:28 (my bosses son is the engineer for the Chumby device he's always over in china for that kind of stuff). Sep 13 04:22:34 'hey, hwat are you doing here?' 'oh, just visiting.. hehe' Sep 13 04:23:30 PreHero: completely different universe Sep 13 04:23:34 apples and oranges Sep 13 04:23:39 oh, before i forget, chrisa requests old omap boards of something that you're hoarding .. and requests an oscope too ;) Sep 13 04:23:51 but i know the bootloader on both runs in about the same amount of time Sep 13 04:24:09 they both take a half second or so to boot, and about a second to load the kernel, and hand off Sep 13 04:24:21 so its in the 1-2 second range from my point of view Sep 13 04:24:28 yeah - you guys get into linux pretty quickly ... it's nice Sep 13 04:25:23 yep, most of the time spent is just phisically reading the couple MB off the flash Sep 13 04:25:30 which takes in the 500ms range Sep 13 04:26:27 could optimize it but itd involve running the sdio part in dma mode, whic would require a lot more code, whiich would make the bootloader too large (64k size limit) Sep 13 04:26:39 and then itd only get back a few hundred ms Sep 13 04:26:47 which isnt really worth it in the grand scheme of things Sep 13 04:26:51 indeed Sep 13 04:27:36 thanks Sep 13 04:27:47 also, bootie runs the cpu at like 128mhz, to keep the power low Sep 13 04:27:53 which adds a few hundred ms too Sep 13 04:28:37 essentially no perceived change in the grand scheme of things Sep 13 04:28:46 right Sep 13 04:29:34 especially when lunasysmgr takes quite a while to load up .. and java as well Sep 13 04:29:46 yep Sep 13 04:30:42 mmmmm ritual coffee.. Sep 13 04:30:52 are you active on the lkml or just take what you're given ? Sep 13 04:31:02 I liked Blue Bottle better :) Sep 13 04:31:11 i like blue bottle better as well Sep 13 04:31:16 but ritual is still good. :) Sep 13 04:31:21 but they're both pretty awesome Sep 13 04:31:22 yesh Sep 13 04:31:35 I can't wait till they get to the point where they can just work on optimizations and start recoding some of that startup stuff. Sep 13 04:31:59 bpadalino: trying to be more proactive about giving back Sep 13 04:32:06 but to be honest our kernel for pre is a mess Sep 13 04:32:12 is that what the bulk of the time is during a reset? the lunasysmgr and java? the time waiting during the boot images going back and forth? Sep 13 04:32:18 its based on essentially a rogue fork of omap code from ti Sep 13 04:32:24 which isnt really anything like the mainline Sep 13 04:32:29 so theres little to give back Sep 13 04:32:40 prehero, yes Sep 13 04:33:03 PreHero: yeah, from a cold boot, linux is running within about 5-6 seconds Sep 13 04:33:27 wow, i didnt realize that the linux startup was that quick Sep 13 04:33:28 geist, so you're making it nice and pretty now ? Sep 13 04:33:38 novacom is up pretty quick Sep 13 04:33:45 i think the emulator takes longer to boot than the pre does Sep 13 04:33:54 yeah, wouldnt be surprised Sep 13 04:34:40 i think itll get faster as we released updates Sep 13 04:34:55 geist, how is TI's documentation for the omap3? our experience with the omap2 is terrible ... absolutely terrible Sep 13 04:34:56 i know folks have been looking at it Sep 13 04:35:02 bpadalino: MUCH better Sep 13 04:35:05 Theoretically the Pre doesn't need java right? I mean its core stuff could all be written in c++ right? Sep 13 04:35:21 ti is really trying to be the default hobbyist arm cpu Sep 13 04:35:24 Templarian: true - but it's a lot of code Sep 13 04:35:30 they have as much as possible documented, etc Sep 13 04:35:31 does th chip y'all are using have the arm java acceleration stuff? Sep 13 04:35:38 nah, no one does Sep 13 04:35:40 geist, that sounds better .. Sep 13 04:35:54 not even sure that cortex-a8 supports it anymore Sep 13 04:35:58 it doesn't Sep 13 04:36:00 arm has certainly deprecated it Sep 13 04:36:05 ahh Sep 13 04:36:13 bpadalino: yea... not a theory that would ever be done. Sep 13 04:36:15 jazelle was a total bust as far as i can tell Sep 13 04:36:20 yeah it was Sep 13 04:36:31 didn't know Sep 13 04:36:42 trouble is you had to license a big pile of black box from arm to use it Sep 13 04:36:51 and then you had to run precisely java vm bytecodes Sep 13 04:37:10 we could never use it at danger because our jvm was custom and used a transcoded bytecode (precursor to dalvik) Sep 13 04:37:13 it was just easier for them to say "get a good jvm" Sep 13 04:37:19 ah cool Sep 13 04:37:25 and anyway, it could only really run simple opcodes Sep 13 04:37:36 anything remotely interesting, like a virtual call, required that you trap into your code anyway Sep 13 04:37:46 and really the bulk of work in any large java system is stuff like that Sep 13 04:38:09 yeah Sep 13 04:38:41 okay, better get going Sep 13 04:38:53 need to go get in the car and head back to the south bay Sep 13 04:39:04 later Sep 13 04:39:09 and need to walk halfway across the city to get back to my car Sep 13 04:39:17 that sounds windy Sep 13 04:39:22 maybe ill see a movie at the metreon Sep 13 04:39:24 anyway, ta ta Sep 13 04:39:38 geist: you could just grab bart.. Sep 13 04:41:58 Leave bart alone, the poor boy has troubles enough coming from the family he does. Sep 13 04:42:34 :) Sep 13 04:43:23 sorry to interrupt...anyone here from San Diego? Sep 13 04:44:38 from midwest here Sep 13 04:46:05 im in san diego now...born and raised in oklahoma though Sep 13 04:46:21 ha, marine? Sep 13 04:46:29 lol yeah... Sep 13 06:11:11 a quick way to find out of dropbear ssh or open ssh is running using the novacom terminal? Sep 13 06:16:24 dropbear ssh is in the root@castle:/opt/bin dir right? Sep 13 06:17:37 am in the wrong channel? Sep 13 06:29:47 DraX: well, walked up and picked up the muni at the church station Sep 13 06:31:25 that works Sep 13 06:33:55 he took the midnight train going anywhere Sep 13 06:53:21 Checkers Contest Sep 13 06:53:22 http://keen-studios.net/2009/09/25000-checkers-downloads/ Sep 13 06:55:08 geist: we had an awesome transit meltdown friday. :D Sep 13 07:03:00 "building the future"? Sep 13 07:03:16 * oil keels over laughing Sep 13 07:03:27 anyone available to help with openssh or dropbear ssh? Sep 13 07:03:51 * oil knows nothing about it Sep 13 07:04:01 I don't maintain the website Sep 13 07:04:04 so don't ask me Sep 13 07:04:19 lol Sep 13 07:04:31 whats the something good? Sep 13 07:04:36 an ipk for the pro version? Sep 13 07:04:41 And more Sep 13 07:04:48 like? Sep 13 07:04:54 Well Sep 13 07:04:56 Good stuff Sep 13 07:05:07 daybreak1199: read the descriptions on those apps Sep 13 07:05:29 * rwhitby bbl Sep 13 07:05:45 thanks for the reply...i have just having issues...i'll go back and reread Sep 13 07:09:51 could someone take a look at this game and see if it would be an easy port into an app http://vrdefendery3k.com/ Sep 13 07:14:06 daybreak1199, just a TD game Sep 13 07:14:26 TD ? not sure what that stands for kesne Sep 13 07:14:37 Tower Defence Sep 13 07:15:26 lol yah..im kinda slow tonight.. Sep 13 07:16:24 nite all Sep 13 07:21:20 * oil looks at his towerdefense game code and sighs Sep 13 07:23:10 oil: Just release it Sep 13 07:23:13 who cares? Sep 13 07:23:18 oil: get to work Sep 13 07:23:24 * oil lols @ how much that one looks like his Sep 13 07:23:59 except mine sucks cause its not really fun to play Sep 13 07:24:03 and im not an artist Sep 13 07:24:05 oil your right Sep 13 07:25:02 Haha Sep 13 07:25:02 and mine only has 2 tower types right now Sep 13 07:25:10 Latest checkers comment: penisland.com Sep 13 07:25:18 haha Sep 13 07:25:27 xD Sep 13 07:25:35 God, I love this phone Sep 13 07:25:46 lol Sep 13 07:25:59 my battery life is so freaking awful Sep 13 07:26:01 why, cause you can check out penisland.com right from it? Sep 13 07:26:13 oil: :P Sep 13 07:26:14 I think my seidio battery is really only 1150mah Sep 13 07:26:23 I need to call them Sep 13 07:27:55 I just got really pissed at this guy who sent me a support email Sep 13 07:28:01 I bashed him a little Sep 13 07:28:12 Maybe I shouldn't have Sep 13 07:28:28 Oh well Sep 13 07:28:40 "app isn't ready, needs to be polished" Sep 13 07:28:46 And his issues were all just prefrence Sep 13 07:28:50 ugh Sep 13 07:28:59 I know checkers isnt that good Sep 13 07:29:05 I know blocked is 100x better Sep 13 07:29:09 but lets get over that Sep 13 07:29:12 lol Sep 13 07:29:15 it's still annoying Sep 13 07:29:18 checkers isnt bad Sep 13 07:29:23 no, the AI is Sep 13 07:29:26 well Sep 13 07:29:28 yeah, it is Sep 13 07:29:33 Playing two player is fine. Sep 13 07:29:33 but blocked doesnt have any ai Sep 13 07:29:39 Exactly Sep 13 07:29:50 I'm so happy that I'm rewriting it Sep 13 07:29:55 dotgame has ai Sep 13 07:29:56 wtf Sep 13 07:29:58 its a little slow Sep 13 07:29:59 but i think its ok Sep 13 07:30:01 you two are STILL talking about this? Sep 13 07:30:03 >> Sep 13 07:30:08 it just started back up Sep 13 07:30:25 This time it's totally in agreement Sep 13 07:30:29 Checkers AI sucks Sep 13 07:30:36 I'm completely rewriting it Sep 13 07:30:39 Making it SMART Sep 13 07:30:43 BUT settable Sep 13 07:30:46 :) Sep 13 07:30:48 lol Sep 13 07:30:49 ake sure you have an easter egg where it randomly cheats Sep 13 07:30:56 or you see a hand come over and tip the board Sep 13 07:31:05 make sure it doesn't do the same back and forth infinity times Sep 13 07:31:10 I wont Sep 13 07:31:17 I've already made sure Sep 13 07:31:24 Added a variable called annoy Sep 13 07:31:28 User setable Sep 13 07:31:32 lol Sep 13 07:31:45 if you set annoy to 2, it can only go back and forth 2 times Sep 13 07:32:36 :D Sep 13 07:32:58 * oil sets it to -1 Sep 13 07:33:01 Yeah Sep 13 07:33:08 Freak it out Sep 13 07:33:56 AND the new AI will be on Checkers Pro AND checkers ;) Sep 13 07:34:09 I'm not forcing users to play bad versions of games Sep 13 07:34:16 lololol Sep 13 07:34:57 Anyway, I'm off Sep 13 07:34:59 later Sep 13 08:10:32 17705 downloads of Preware since 03 Sep. Sep 13 08:10:40 lol Sep 13 08:10:56 staggering Sep 13 08:10:58 14772 downloads of ipkgservice Sep 13 08:11:26 so 3 people with problems in the PreCentral forums is not that significant ;-) Sep 13 08:11:51 of course that will include web crawlers ;-) Sep 13 08:12:55 lol Sep 13 08:13:03 what are they doing crawling .ipk files? Sep 13 08:14:34 8703 downloads from WebOS Quick Install Sep 13 08:14:56 5733 downloads from Preware Sep 13 08:16:18 Yahoo and Google are both spidering the ipkgs Sep 13 08:16:21 lol Sep 13 08:17:06 Google only spidered 12 times Sep 13 08:17:24 Yahoo 31 times Sep 13 08:18:18 * rwhitby thinks kesne's 25000 is chicken feed ... Sep 13 08:18:29 lol Sep 13 08:18:34 since what, thursday? Sep 13 08:18:43 preware in the app catalog? Sep 13 08:18:47 :P Sep 13 08:18:50 * oil submits it Sep 13 08:18:58 * oil then bitches about it not being accepted Sep 13 08:19:09 * oil takes his ball and goes home Sep 13 08:19:26 32425 downloads of ipkgs per day from ipkg.preware.org in the last 10 days Sep 13 08:21:42 * rwhitby bbl Sep 13 08:26:25 how many mb/gbs is that? Sep 13 09:27:11 oil: oh, we don't really too much care about the mb's/gb's - osuosl has at least 3 10Gb/sec pipes to Internet2, the CPU on www.webos-internals.org peaks at about 10%, the memory peaks at about 50%, there is on average only about 20 simultaneous connections, and the outgoing traffic peaks at about 1MBit/sec. Sep 13 09:31:53 ah Sep 13 10:33:51 ok, my proposal for the Dropbear and OpenSSH packages that are installable without requiring Linux command line access are that they by default allow access on wifi only through the normal ssh port 22, with ssh key authentication only. We're going to teach people how to use ssh properly by default. Sep 13 10:34:44 of course, the Pixi doesn't have wifi, so we'll need to think about what to do for it when it is released ... Sep 13 10:54:30 rwhitby: if there is directions for installation Sep 13 10:54:41 its totally going to not get fallowed Sep 13 11:05:17 oil: sure, and if the directions for activating key authentication is not followed, then it simply will not connect. fail-safe :-) Sep 13 11:06:19 oil: hey, you'll be a good alpha tester for this, since you haven't installed optware using the manual method previously. Sep 13 11:06:42 lol Sep 13 11:07:08 * freakout shakes head at oil's laziness. Sep 13 11:07:39 freakout: I believe in oil's case it's a case of principles, not laziness. Sep 13 11:07:40 im sure someone else will be willing to test it out right after a doctor xD Sep 13 11:08:00 actually Sep 13 11:08:01 oil has principles? Sep 13 11:08:08 when the pre first came out Sep 13 11:08:09 i joined here Sep 13 11:08:13 and attempted to go through the directions Sep 13 11:08:17 but it didnt work Sep 13 11:08:20 the tools wouldnt connect to my pre Sep 13 11:08:23 so i left Sep 13 11:08:28 cause i couldnt get help at the time Sep 13 11:08:35 lol Sep 13 11:08:42 this channel is full of snobs Sep 13 11:08:53 :P Sep 13 11:09:47 People turn up and say PLZ HELP MI PRE IS RETIRED Sep 13 11:10:00 and you turn them away. Sep 13 11:10:32 oil: you know what happened that day? (I just looked at the logs) Sep 13 11:10:57 no Sep 13 11:11:01 oil: you asked for help at "Jun 13 05:33:16 i try to run talk.py, and get errors" Sep 13 11:11:08 seriously Sep 13 11:11:43 then this happened: "Jun 13 05:42:21 Why are you trying to write code in thumb? Nothing on pre is compiled that way..." Sep 13 11:12:00 hahaha Sep 13 11:12:23 then this: "Jun 13 05:42:56 cdm: not true, bootie is in thumb2" Sep 13 11:13:23 Oooo, internal division within Palm Sep 13 11:13:28 * freakout blogs madly Sep 13 11:15:43 so yeah Sep 13 11:15:46 but now i dont have to know any of that Sep 13 11:15:49 and just write the mojo Sep 13 11:18:32 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 13 11:51:55 ok, I need a guinea pig for dropbear and openssh Sep 13 11:57:48 which package was it that didn't have a java restart in it? Sep 13 11:58:01 accel service? Sep 13 12:01:20 yep accelservice Sep 13 12:01:26 oil: ^^ Sep 13 12:01:31 yeah Sep 13 12:03:56 I read somewhere that palm might not continue to ship prototype with webos... seems unlikely to me ... Sep 13 12:04:03 yeah Sep 13 12:04:12 especially considering how many apps are probably using it Sep 13 12:04:18 right... Sep 13 12:04:31 preware is the first app ive written that isn't using it Sep 13 12:04:34 I was thinking about using jquery (which I know by heart) instead, but I imagine prototype will continue to be there and it's the same thing basically Sep 13 12:04:36 and, ive missed some of its features Sep 13 12:05:06 I found some prototype for jquery peeps type docs and ... I'm just going to use prototype Sep 13 12:05:25 lol Sep 13 12:05:30 ive never used jquery Sep 13 12:05:33 but ive used prototype a lot Sep 13 12:06:07 if I do an Ajax.Request(get) and the get sets a cookie... will my app store the cookie somewhere automatically? is the app like a little browser? Sep 13 12:06:42 does each app get its own cookie jar? or do they share? Sep 13 12:07:25 im pretty sure they're stored via appid Sep 13 12:07:31 i use the same name in multiple apps Sep 13 12:07:34 without any problems Sep 13 12:07:57 yeah the app is like a little browser Sep 13 12:07:59 I definitely don't mean setting a cookie by hand, I mean the website I'm hitting via ajax Sep 13 12:08:06 oh Sep 13 12:08:06 that Sep 13 12:08:07 i dont know Sep 13 12:08:12 yeah Sep 13 12:08:15 I'll have to just play with it Sep 13 12:08:20 the docs are a little thin here. ;) Sep 13 12:08:22 maybe its tied to the cookies stored from the browser? Sep 13 12:08:29 it would be interrested to see what you find out Sep 13 12:08:33 i would be* Sep 13 12:08:44 any idea where the cookies, depots and sqlites are stored for apps? Sep 13 12:08:48 I'm going to have to poke around in there Sep 13 12:08:51 no clue Sep 13 12:11:16 :) Sep 13 12:12:46 rwhitby: git version of preware now obeys the flags Sep 13 12:13:03 still not doing dependencies yet Sep 13 12:13:08 but, its almost ready :) Sep 13 12:14:06 * oil goes to sleeps now Sep 13 12:15:35 oil: awesome, I'll test it out. Sep 13 12:15:39 yea Sep 13 12:15:41 it needs thati Sep 13 12:15:45 i havent tested it on my pre yet Sep 13 12:15:51 cause im too lazy to move the usb cable right now xD Sep 13 12:15:56 ok Sep 13 12:16:08 i also added a "launch" button to installed applications Sep 13 12:16:14 and a spinner while its doing something Sep 13 12:16:28 and removed the update button from patches Sep 13 12:16:30 I just found a bug in how we run postinsts - we need to define $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT for update-alternatives to work, so I'm fixing that at the moment. Sep 13 12:16:39 forcing a removal and then reinstallation Sep 13 12:16:54 wow, lots of new stuf Sep 13 12:16:58 yeah Sep 13 12:17:04 and if you scroll down then start typing to filter Sep 13 12:17:08 it moves back to the top of hte list Sep 13 12:17:14 before you would get a blank page till you flicked it down Sep 13 12:17:54 i think i spelled out my changes in all the commit comments Sep 13 12:17:55 xD Sep 13 12:17:57 ok Sep 13 12:17:59 sleep Sep 13 12:18:00 later Sep 13 13:34:29 Looking for alpha testers for ipkgservice 0.8.8 Sep 13 13:44:14 anyone here who can test ipkgservice? Sep 13 14:03:49 Package Manager Service 0.8.8 is released - no new user visible features, but support for update-alternatives processing in installation scripts (so dropbear and openssh can both be installed, and one gets priority over the over for /opt/bin/ssh and /opt/bin/scp) Sep 13 14:13:34 * rwhitby bbt Sep 13 14:18:25 interesting about thumb2 Sep 13 14:19:09 so bootie will have to be changed for pixi, though that'a almost a given for msm Sep 13 14:36:35 so bootie will have to be changed for pixi, though that'a almost a given for msm Sep 13 14:36:43 sorry Sep 13 16:29:31 hey guys. Sep 13 16:31:29 Hello. Sep 13 16:43:59 can I just rm /opt, and relevant upstart scripts then install the actual preware apps? Sep 13 16:54:18 is there instructions somewhere how to use dropbear from preware? Sep 13 16:57:40 it's just an ssh daemon, by default in the past they've had it listening on port 222, so you just ssh to your pre's IP address:222 Sep 13 16:58:54 in preware iut was changed to 22, and requires keys Sep 13 16:59:13 the q. is how to setup the key pair on PC/pre Sep 13 17:14:44 Zuchmir2: yo Sep 13 17:14:49 hi Sep 13 17:15:14 saw you made major changes to the service Sep 13 17:15:17 Zuchmir2: im about to push a commit for your review Sep 13 17:15:22 ok Sep 13 17:15:27 i just added some memory stuff Sep 13 17:15:48 ok Sep 13 17:16:41 Zuchmir2: actually, i need to send you a nipit Sep 13 17:16:44 snipit Sep 13 17:16:59 Zuchmir2: http://pastebin.com/m13f7fb1d Sep 13 17:17:06 im getting a syntax error and i cant see why Sep 13 17:17:11 its probably obvious Sep 13 17:17:13 but im blind righr now Sep 13 17:17:55 ooh i see it Sep 13 17:17:55 :D Sep 13 17:17:56 lol Sep 13 17:20:34 ok, i did not spot the error (w/o compiling), probably have to see which line # the error is on to spot it Sep 13 17:25:43 Morning all Sep 13 17:26:20 i had a random NULL in there Sep 13 17:26:26 Zuchmir2: ok so its pushed Sep 13 17:26:37 Zuchmir2: the subscription/thread stuff isnt tied in yet Sep 13 17:26:43 so just test non-subscriptions Sep 13 17:26:47 the battery stuff works Sep 13 17:26:56 havent gotten the mem stuff working yet Sep 13 17:27:03 Zuchmir2: added some build instructions Sep 13 17:27:19 Zuchmir2: i didnt add the -rpath stuff yet so idk of it will work for you or not Sep 13 17:27:21 let me know Sep 13 17:28:54 ahh i think i know why the mem stuff aint working Sep 13 17:30:43 guys, i just checked, my build date is 5/20/09 Sep 13 17:30:47 kesne: hi Sep 13 17:30:48 maybe thats why my pre sucks? lol Sep 13 17:31:32 PuffTheMagic: Good Morning, well, morning for me :D Sep 13 17:31:47 west coast? Sep 13 17:33:03 Yep Sep 13 17:33:05 Oregon Sep 13 17:33:26 :D Sep 13 17:33:52 EVERYING WITH webOS 1.2, YOUR APP CATALOG NOW WORKS! Sep 13 17:35:05 its great :) Sep 13 17:35:37 And everyone with 1.1, it nows says FREE, not TRY ME Sep 13 17:36:25 what says free? Sep 13 17:36:45 App Price Sep 13 17:37:21 which app? Sep 13 17:37:48 all of them Sep 13 17:37:51 All of them Sep 13 17:37:55 the new app catalog has launched for 1.2 Sep 13 17:38:01 and there are A LOT of changes Sep 13 17:38:07 And 1.1 apps now say free Sep 13 17:38:23 I dont have webos 1.2 I am lame Sep 13 17:38:29 Hopefully we get the ota update soon. Sep 13 17:38:46 Finally it says free that try me thing was confusing. Sep 13 17:38:51 yeah, i wonder if the guy from palm might announce 1.2 on the engadget show tonight. Sep 13 17:39:04 Decimation: I was thinking that also. Sep 13 17:39:17 Good publicity if they fixed the itunes thing also. Sep 13 17:39:39 yep Sep 13 17:39:46 Decimation: the app catalog auto updates it self? Sep 13 17:40:10 Decimation, idk, i have 1.2 Sep 13 17:40:21 but it's live now Sep 13 17:40:26 screenshots will be out in a minute Sep 13 17:40:45 I hope they fix itunes again, I dont use it but I lik to see apple poked Sep 13 17:40:48 PuffTheMagic: No Sep 13 17:40:49 PuffTheMagic: 1.2 users had it but the server side wasn't on. Sep 13 17:40:58 It's downloading prices and stuff serverside Sep 13 17:41:09 The catalog went offline for an hour or so last night Sep 13 17:41:17 They changed all try mes to free Sep 13 17:41:28 And loaded up the 1.2 server files Sep 13 17:41:31 and on 1.2 Sep 13 17:41:37 it now gives a list of credit cards you can use Sep 13 17:41:41 mofo battery shiiiiiiiii Sep 13 17:42:40 WebOS 1.2 Catalog Topic: Will be updated with screenshots Sep 13 17:42:45 http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202835-1-2-app-catalog.html Sep 13 17:43:39 do you think we will be able to try most apps for free before we buy? Sep 13 17:44:04 I think I would like to trysomething for free before I pay Sep 13 17:44:09 Joesmith_fromcha: it's a developer choice. Sep 13 17:44:16 I think so Sep 13 17:44:36 I'm going for a full free version with added functionality in pro Sep 13 17:45:13 I'm going for always free... once I find time to start coding. Sep 13 17:45:30 I hope so, I think the quickcontacts trial is a good model, but the trial could be shorter Sep 13 17:45:55 like 2 days or something Sep 13 17:46:29 With trialware it should be long enough for constant use that they get hooked. Sep 13 17:46:44 Marketing is fun :) Sep 13 17:48:33 when I downloaded checkers from the app cat I can play against the program, wierd..... Sep 13 17:48:56 I hope someone makes a chess app soon Sep 13 17:49:11 Joesmith_fromcha: isn't there already? Sep 13 17:49:14 I am making one Sep 13 17:49:16 Well Sep 13 17:49:18 Altering one Sep 13 17:49:21 sweet Sep 13 17:49:31 yeah but it really sucks hard core Sep 13 17:49:41 the enignie Sep 13 17:49:44 not the app Sep 13 17:49:50 it cant play Sep 13 17:50:14 http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc109/ShiftyEyezz/screenshots/ Sep 13 17:50:18 new app catalog Sep 13 17:50:19 WOO Sep 13 17:51:29 Nice. Sep 13 17:51:36 sweet Sep 13 17:51:57 wait isnt pdf viewer stock Sep 13 17:52:00 and free Sep 13 17:54:08 Those are installed apps Sep 13 17:54:39 * Joesmith_fromcha doesnt know up from down Sep 13 17:55:15 yeah, idk why pdf view doesn't show up as a stock app. Sep 13 17:56:21 Beta Tag still? Sep 13 17:56:22 ARg Sep 13 17:56:34 Maybe they moved palm apps out of the OTA main update? Sep 13 17:59:11 more screenshots being uploaded Sep 13 17:59:29 Alright Sep 13 17:59:35 Thanks Decimation! Sep 13 18:01:40 done, 4 more added. Sep 13 18:02:27 No screenshots in checkers? :P Sep 13 18:02:32 well, now im overall satisfied with everything 1.2 brings. Sep 13 18:02:39 Haha Sep 13 18:02:39 kesne: gdial was the first app :P Sep 13 18:02:46 Yeah Sep 13 18:02:49 Alright Sep 13 18:04:16 gdial? Sep 13 18:05:23 tmzt: ? Sep 13 18:05:34 prototype appears to completely suck. It fires onSuccess when status=0 because of a host not found. Grrz. Sep 13 18:05:49 is it really an onSuccess when the website doesn't resolve? Sep 13 18:06:42 i found that out yesterday too Sep 13 18:06:46 what is gdial Sep 13 18:07:02 i don't get why the hell it would return onSuccess Sep 13 18:07:48 yeah, took me a while. If I hit a page on a site it can resolve it goes to onFail with the 404 Sep 13 18:08:04 but if I try to get fakefakeafakesite.com it goes to onSuccess with status=0 Sep 13 18:08:15 using Ajax.Request(), which I think is prototype Sep 13 18:08:34 (hit a page that doesn't exist on a site that does... I should say). Sep 13 18:10:10 whats ajax.request? Sep 13 18:10:48 It's the thingy that lets the thing talk to other things. Sep 13 18:11:09 * jettero tries sock puppets Sep 13 18:14:22 does it contact the server to validate that something is legit? Sep 13 18:14:35 Joesmith_fromcha: http://www.prototypejs.org/api/ajax/request Sep 13 18:15:04 thanks Sep 13 18:19:28 It's the thingy that lets the thing talk to other things. rofl Sep 13 18:20:40 what is it used for in an application? Sep 13 18:21:42 Joesmith_fromcha: you're going to have to reason it out Sep 13 18:21:56 :D Sep 13 18:22:15 you guys, what was the app catalog download limit? Sep 13 18:22:18 50 or 60? Sep 13 18:22:22 80 Sep 13 18:22:27 no... Sep 13 18:22:31 it was like 60? Sep 13 18:23:27 you can download more then that? Sep 13 18:23:29 Joesmith_fromcha: Almost every application talks to an outside server. You basically request information from the server through "requests". Sep 13 18:24:04 woah I didnt know that apps like calculator talked to a server Sep 13 18:24:09 it is also used to read files from the local file system Sep 13 18:24:24 Joesmith_fromcha: "almost every", calc is one of the few. Sep 13 18:24:43 so in an ebook reader, as you move from chapter to chapter you ajax request the next chapter's file from the local file system Sep 13 18:24:54 ahhh Sep 13 18:25:05 (since loading a full book into ram wouldn't be smart) Sep 13 18:25:59 but if it connects to an outside server and exchanges data couldlnt it be told to send data, in therory malciously? Sep 13 18:26:37 yeah, the prototype docs even say that onSuccess is invoked when status is not defined (0 here), which happens on host not found Sep 13 18:26:38 Joesmith_fromcha: Of course, but Mojo apps only have access to higher level data. Sep 13 18:26:41 so that behavior is intentional Sep 13 18:27:20 Joesmith_fromcha: your web browser constantly connnects to remote servers, some of which are malicious. Lose any sleep over it? Sep 13 18:27:31 nope :D Sep 13 18:27:42 k, webos is pretty much a fancy web browser Sep 13 18:27:48 relax Sep 13 18:27:56 or I could just use lynks and be more happy Sep 13 18:28:09 lynx is a web browser too... Sep 13 18:28:18 so is links and elinks. :) Sep 13 18:28:28 which is ugly Sep 13 18:28:41 Real web browsers use cross domain policies, but of course that idea doesn't work on a mobile device. Sep 13 18:34:53 new app catalog looks fancy Sep 13 18:35:06 Still has limit Sep 13 18:35:42 did that new update roll out yet? or are you guys just installing it early still? Sep 13 18:35:51 Not yet Sep 13 18:36:15 yeah, didn't turn up in mine, wondered if they're doing it by region or something Sep 13 18:39:08 webOS 1.2 still has a 50 app download limit. Sep 13 18:39:46 what would be the purpose of that? Sep 13 18:40:10 who knows. Sep 13 18:40:27 seems webos re-scans the image dirs, and mp3 dirs every single time... I'm betting it rescans apps too, and anything more than like 60 or 80 slows down the launcher too much Sep 13 18:40:33 jsut a hunch, no evidence Sep 13 18:40:44 indexing API Sep 13 18:43:45 Haha Sep 13 18:43:49 I just remembered something Sep 13 18:43:53 predevcamp.org Sep 13 18:44:13 and? Sep 13 18:44:40 The contest.... Sep 13 18:44:59 Heh Sep 13 18:45:03 Who is Rob____? Sep 13 18:45:10 When did he get here? Sep 13 18:45:16 Where is he going? Sep 13 18:45:58 hmm? Sep 13 18:46:58 ;) Sep 13 18:47:09 What? Sep 13 18:47:14 Confusioun Sep 13 18:48:20 I broke a little thing off of my pre today Sep 13 18:48:24 I got so mad Sep 13 18:48:29 Then I remembered Sep 13 18:48:30 NO Sep 13 18:48:34 :( Sep 13 18:48:34 I don't really care Sep 13 18:48:49 It doesnt look ANY different Sep 13 18:49:02 The USB door? Sep 13 18:49:06 Just makes it harder to fiddle with the batery door Sep 13 18:49:10 Something near it, yes Sep 13 18:49:22 I hate the usb door so I took it out as well Sep 13 18:49:57 I need to find the replacement so when I go talk to Sprint about the cracks developing around the usb port they don't look at me like I intentionally abused my phone Sep 13 18:49:58 I would remove it, but it increases the drag coefficient on the phone too much Sep 13 18:50:07 I had a nightmare someone was twisting my pre like an oreo two days ago, I swear to you Sep 13 18:50:51 Pixi has a nice thing Sep 13 18:51:33 that rubberized door is nice Sep 13 18:51:57 Yeah Sep 13 18:52:04 Who is Xyg? Sep 13 18:52:09 Why arent you rob anymore? Sep 13 18:52:42 Who is kense? Sep 13 18:52:54 It's kesne, not kense Sep 13 18:52:54 kesne, rather Sep 13 18:52:58 :P Sep 13 18:53:02 And I'm Jordan Gensler Sep 13 18:53:05 jordangens@gmail.com Sep 13 18:53:07 congratulations Sep 13 18:53:07 who is keens? Sep 13 18:53:11 support@villo.me Sep 13 18:53:13 or who is keesn! Sep 13 18:53:17 hi keesn! Sep 13 18:53:21 ;) Sep 13 18:53:41 :P Sep 13 18:53:57 Everyone says kesne like it's spelled kense Sep 13 18:54:00 it's all good Sep 13 18:54:59 is there anyway two download apps from the app catalog onto the emulator? Sep 13 18:55:21 Well, no way TWO download apps from catalog on emulator Sep 13 18:55:44 And not sure about anyway to download apps from catalog on emulator Sep 13 18:55:49 I don't use the emulator Sep 13 18:57:33 Iknow two lol Sep 13 18:58:00 I felt bad after I typed that Sep 13 18:58:06 IT's all good Sep 13 18:58:09 It happens Sep 13 18:58:34 is there one way to download them :D Sep 13 18:59:03 xD Sep 13 19:00:30 so you can only download 50 apps from the catalog, what about sideloading 50+ Sep 13 19:00:50 you can using preware Sep 13 19:01:32 right, but does homebrew count as part of the 50? Sep 13 19:01:44 I believe Filecoaster installs to the same directory as the app catalog does, so whatever you download with that program counts in that 50 Sep 13 19:02:17 not with preware, as it installs to a different directory Sep 13 19:02:30 really? Sep 13 19:02:45 not var/usr/palm/apps? Sep 13 19:03:31 Wait Sep 13 19:03:41 We are supposed to talk about webOS INTERNALS in here? Sep 13 19:04:07 I think so? Sep 13 19:04:29 so what dir does preware install to? Sep 13 19:08:36 so how does one get around the max apps? Sep 13 19:09:38 preware installs to /var/usr/palm/applications Sep 13 19:10:02 and the max apps is a limit of the app catalog and of the palm install and not of ipkg -- preware uses ipkg which doesn't CARE Sep 13 19:10:43 thanks for clarifying rick Sep 13 19:11:41 very cool Sep 13 19:12:00 preware and filecoaster install to the same DIRECTORY but they do it in different WAYS Sep 13 19:12:09 so as long as you install via ipkg no limit? Sep 13 19:19:09 what would I do if I wanted to download 50 apps from the catalog? Sep 13 19:19:34 or 51, I cant find it now but I am sure there was a way around it Sep 13 19:20:54 Joesmith_fromcha: as long as you install from preware, memory limit only Sep 13 19:21:16 which can be severe if you're installing big apps Sep 13 19:22:47 can preware install apps from the app catalog? Sep 13 19:52:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI7wTuBziEw Sep 13 19:56:03 lol Sep 13 19:57:14 found it Sep 13 19:57:32 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Symlink_Applications Sep 13 20:03:53 how to access the emulator with putty? Sep 13 20:17:41 so sprints nfl mobile live is garbage their servers must be getting hit hard with everyone trying to use it lol Sep 13 20:33:56 punzada: yea it just keeps loading. Sep 13 20:34:24 nvm just super slow Sep 13 20:34:38 mine has not been able to connect the last 4 times i tried Sep 13 20:34:55 It spins for like a solid minute. Sep 13 20:35:05 or more. Sep 13 20:36:53 3 minutes later and I can see a screen... too bad I don't care about sports. :) Sep 13 20:39:33 that is too bad ;p Sep 13 20:39:49 I like the NFL app but have little to no use for the nascar app since.. nascar sucks ;p Sep 13 20:40:30 Error - Cant connect to the server - try again later. Sep 13 20:40:30 lol Sep 13 20:40:37 fail again nfl, fail again Sep 13 20:48:01 * oil yawns Sep 13 20:48:32 Hey all Sep 13 20:48:35 * oil notices 1.2 app catalog has applications and updates/insatlled sections like preware xD Sep 13 20:49:30 Yep Sep 13 20:49:41 I also notice the first word on that Sep 13 20:51:59 can someone point me to resources on putty'ing into the emulator? Sep 13 20:52:01 eh? Sep 13 20:52:10 eh? Sep 13 20:52:50 "putty'omg"? Sep 13 20:52:53 ing* Sep 13 20:52:54 lol Sep 13 20:52:58 :/ Sep 13 20:53:01 anyways Sep 13 20:53:05 who maintains the ipkgservice java code ? Sep 13 20:53:10 ssh to 127.0.0.1 Sep 13 20:53:12 port 5522 Sep 13 20:53:16 thanks oil Sep 13 20:53:27 bpadalino: that would be rwhitby Sep 13 20:53:35 ah ok .. Sep 13 20:53:38 why? Sep 13 20:54:14 i think the code should use a static initializer for the class for getting the feeds informations ... so it doesn't have to do it all the time .. or for every object that gets created Sep 13 20:54:29 and then synchronize updates to the static information Sep 13 20:55:51 bpadalino: i will me making a new pkgmrg in C shortly Sep 13 20:56:05 oh neato Sep 13 20:56:19 after i whip up the upstart service Sep 13 20:56:26 whip it good Sep 13 20:56:29 :D Sep 13 20:56:52 when a pre-service comes along... Sep 13 20:56:58 ...you must whip it Sep 13 20:58:08 heh Sep 13 20:58:51 so besides processes, memory, battery, disk usage Sep 13 20:59:01 what other "monitors" could i add to ubermonsrv? Sep 13 20:59:12 netstats? Sep 13 20:59:30 that's probably a good thing to keep track of.. Sep 13 20:59:40 for all interfaces Sep 13 21:00:25 even know its not "monitor" it think im gonna add method to change the IO scheduler Sep 13 21:00:37 oooh Sep 13 21:00:41 what about cpufreq :D Sep 13 21:00:47 should add that in there too Sep 13 21:01:12 put them all on the list Sep 13 21:01:24 oil: ? Sep 13 21:01:47 oil: was that a yes for cpufreq stuff? Sep 13 21:02:03 and netstats Sep 13 21:02:08 yeah Sep 13 21:02:17 i am never gonna get to the upstart service now Sep 13 21:02:29 you're even got icons! Sep 13 21:02:42 i better make a 0.1.0 of the ubermonsrv with mem and battery support Sep 13 21:02:45 then to upstart Sep 13 21:02:53 and then come back to the monitor Sep 13 21:02:55 all wrapped in subscriptions? Sep 13 21:03:08 subscriptions for individual things right now Sep 13 21:03:12 ah Sep 13 21:03:13 ok Sep 13 21:03:17 "right now" Sep 13 21:03:19 that could change Sep 13 21:03:27 lol Sep 13 21:03:45 there are like 16 battery methods and 13 methods for mem Sep 13 21:03:46 :D Sep 13 21:03:55 there are gonna like 100 methods soon Sep 13 21:04:15 the more info the better the monitor thing Sep 13 21:06:12 webOS 1.2 this week Sep 13 21:06:18 For sure Sep 13 21:08:03 just like the past 2 weeks Sep 13 21:08:48 This time I have a great source Sep 13 21:08:54 It's almost 100% positive Sep 13 21:09:06 Jonny R.? Sep 13 21:15:35 http://blog.wolfire.com/2009/09/preview-of-webkits-webgl-canvas3d/ Sep 13 21:17:24 kesne how can you be so sure Sep 13 21:17:42 I just am Sep 13 21:18:54 gkatsev: sadly that wouldn't be very fast on Pre without the gl driver Sep 13 21:24:56 I hope so, I am patiently waiting Sep 13 21:25:59 Me too Sep 13 21:29:07 haha irony, i'm working on my WebOS projects while wearing a sun microsystems shirt Sep 13 21:32:26 ... Sep 13 21:33:27 erg Sep 13 21:34:15 AH Sep 13 21:34:21 29992 downloads Sep 13 21:35:25 palindromes! Sep 13 21:36:34 AHHHH Sep 13 21:36:39 29999 Sep 13 21:37:26 what is being downloaded ? Sep 13 21:37:37 http://i650.photobucket.com/albums/uu229/kesne/findapps_2009-13-09_143626.jpg Sep 13 21:37:39 Checkers Sep 13 21:37:45 ah cool Sep 13 21:37:59 I wanted to see it at 29999 Sep 13 21:38:03 bpadalino: don't bother, it is a crappy app Sep 13 21:38:10 heh Sep 13 21:38:17 ;) Sep 13 21:38:20 only 3.5 stars :( Sep 13 21:38:33 Well Sep 13 21:38:38 Read the reveiws :/ Sep 13 21:38:42 I know why Sep 13 21:38:48 Everyone here knows why Sep 13 21:39:03 And Eguy: do you hate me or something xD Sep 13 21:39:20 I am kidding buddy ;) Sep 13 21:41:08 I like the app myself, I usually lose though Sep 13 21:41:12 piece location ? Sep 13 21:41:15 that's the big issue? Sep 13 21:41:18 I am not good with checkers Sep 13 21:42:27 bpadalino: that and penisland :/ Sep 13 21:42:52 penisland.net ? Sep 13 21:42:55 i love how people are excited about downloads for checkers.... people are drying for a decent game... they will dowload anything at this rate Sep 13 21:43:05 my friend actually runs penisland.net if you want some pens Sep 13 21:43:17 lol Sep 13 21:43:24 lol Sep 13 21:43:42 what is the deal with penis talk in this room? Sep 13 21:43:54 whoa, who's talking about cock ?! Sep 13 21:44:02 i just like pens Sep 13 21:44:48 the reviews in the palm app catalogue always make me lul Sep 13 21:44:54 Yes Sep 13 21:45:03 acydlord: I always end up reading them for fun Sep 13 21:45:03 its like youtube meets iphone fanboys Sep 13 21:45:14 me too Sep 13 21:45:26 Haha Sep 13 21:45:33 The checkers ones are really bad Sep 13 21:45:49 havent seen the checkers ones yet Sep 13 21:45:56 last one i looked at was lights out Sep 13 21:46:09 Oh yeah Sep 13 21:46:12 That ones is good Sep 13 21:46:22 I haven't read the lights out ones Sep 13 21:46:52 "pretty dum gam" Sep 13 21:47:01 *game Sep 13 21:47:11 yeah lol Sep 13 21:47:21 Pretty dumb person Sep 13 21:47:40 some kid posted on my blog one time "your an a$$hole" Sep 13 21:47:50 i was like GRAMMAR FAIL Sep 13 21:48:08 went on for about a page explaining the differences of your and you're Sep 13 21:48:21 "your stupid" is always one that makes me laugh Sep 13 21:49:19 acydlord: absolutely fascinating. Sep 13 21:50:24 your ideas intrigue me and i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter Sep 13 21:50:36 lol Sep 13 21:50:56 i seem to have opened up a can of worms Sep 13 21:51:26 Woo, we should all watch this: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202857-jon-rubinstein-speaks-2.html Sep 13 21:52:07 geesh Sep 13 21:52:17 It makes you wonder about the owners of the Pre Sep 13 21:52:36 mostly 14 year olds who can't spell or have a comprehension of grammar? Sep 13 21:57:03 Eguy: Makes a guy wonder doesnt it Sep 13 21:57:49 Yes Sep 13 21:58:30 should definitely listen in on the earnings conference call on the 17th Sep 13 21:58:39 http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/13/deutsche-telekom-eyeing-sprint-nextel-for-acquisition/ this would be interesting Sep 13 21:58:47 that should be an interesting one since they will probably reveal pre numbers Sep 13 21:58:49 Originally Posted by ronnienyc View Post Sep 13 21:58:50 Jon just said he "does not know" the processor speed of the Pixie. Sep 13 21:58:55 the actual speed? Sep 13 21:59:09 it'd be tricky if it were 88MPH Sep 13 21:59:43 it's 528 or 568 or something like that Sep 13 21:59:48 it's not cortex/omap3 Sep 13 21:59:56 It's qualcomm Sep 13 22:00:10 the engadget review says the interface is fast but not at scaling images and some webpages Sep 13 22:00:48 well we know one thing is for sure.... build quality will be WAY up Sep 13 22:00:52 no oreo Sep 13 22:01:09 nothing to rock side to side Sep 13 22:01:18 arm11 for sure in the msm7200 .. but probably super easy to bring over to umts Sep 13 22:01:56 it does support openGL ES if palm ever wanted to do the 3d thing for all of webos Sep 13 22:02:32 it's not comparable to sgx, assuming it's the same ati imageon gpu from the other msm7k's Sep 13 22:03:18 16:24 < tmzt> the engadget review says the interface is fast but not at scaling images and some webpages Sep 13 22:03:24 the engadget review says the interface is fast but not at scaling some images and some webpages Sep 13 22:03:55 i believe they just do the resizing in software - nothing hardware accelerated about it currently Sep 13 22:04:37 which would explain it being faster on the Pre Sep 13 22:07:13 i'd like to see the pixi's power numbers ... i have a feeling they'll be significantly better than the pre due to smaller screen size for one, and only powering one chip instead of both modem and omap Sep 13 22:09:02 Eguy: just watch, it WILL wiggle Sep 13 22:10:23 hah Sep 13 22:14:36 morning Sep 13 22:14:58 bpadalino: there's still a modem, and it's always on on the msm chip, at least partially Sep 13 22:15:16 also, linux (aurora) doesn't have full power collapse implmented that I know of Sep 13 22:15:19 yet Sep 13 22:15:25 unless it's in 2.6.29 kernel Sep 13 22:15:30 it's a lot less silicon to power Sep 13 22:18:55 How much is too much? http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/13/brabus-e-v12-black-baron-is-cloaked-for-speed/ well that about sums it up Sep 13 22:39:21 netsplit? Sep 13 22:40:37 always Sep 13 22:45:29 I actually dont see them often on freenode Sep 13 22:45:46 I have seen it a lot Sep 13 22:46:21 unless it is a coincidence Sep 13 22:47:46 maybe its the server you're on? Sep 13 22:47:56 or maybe its the server they are on Sep 13 22:50:31 How do I access the log on the device? /var/log? Sep 13 22:52:41 in /var/log/messages Sep 13 22:53:51 Ok, is there a command to filter out messages not produced by my app? Sep 13 22:54:17 yep, grep Sep 13 22:54:26 it's a linux box. Sep 13 22:55:03 Ok, I will look that up. Sep 13 22:55:05 Thanks Sep 13 22:55:05 TIWizard: which Texas Instruments parts are you a wizard for? Sep 13 22:55:17 Calculators Sep 13 22:55:17 omap product line? Sep 13 22:55:31 Their graphing calculators Sep 13 22:56:30 ah, cool. are you working on a HP calc app for the Pre? Sep 13 22:56:41 No, not right now Sep 13 22:57:15 I might in the future, but only after the SDK has expanded a bit... Sep 13 22:57:26 TIWizard: we have a way to do bitmap graphics from native code Sep 13 22:57:39 maybe even faster than the ti calculators themselves Sep 13 22:57:49 Not through the official SDK I assume Sep 13 22:57:55 no Sep 13 22:58:39 Well, maybe after I finish the app I am currently working on Sep 13 23:00:06 Man, I love this band Sep 13 23:00:57 there's an open vti program right? Sep 13 23:01:44 Emulator? Wabbitemu is one, but it is written in C Sep 13 23:02:02 I know there's one for X Sep 14 00:12:39 rwhitby: ping Sep 14 00:13:33 Decimation: syn|ack Sep 14 00:13:55 rwhtiby: whats the total donation count to? :) Sep 14 00:15:51 Decimation: I keep it up to date in my .sig on PreCentral - currently $200 Sep 14 00:17:13 ahh, didnt notice Sep 14 00:17:14 nice. Sep 14 00:17:39 Hey Sep 14 00:17:40 rwhitby: syn->syn|ack->ack? Sep 14 00:17:42 New website theme Sep 14 00:17:44 http://keen-studios.net/ Sep 14 00:18:38 rwhitby: i shall have to remember that Sep 14 00:21:20 I got an e-book copy of the WebOS book :) Sep 14 00:25:03 acydlord: make certain to check the on-line errata pages. Sep 14 00:25:08 there are a lot of them Sep 14 00:25:25 Rick_home, will do Sep 14 00:37:29 gkatsev: at least he didn't reply RST Sep 14 00:46:34 so I just reimaged my phone with the doctor. Is there anything I can alpha or beta test? Sep 14 00:53:54 anyone figure out the out of space errors? Sep 14 00:54:06 it seems to be some artificial limit of the app catalog as preware doesn't see it Sep 14 01:19:14 JackieRipper: optware bootstrap and dropbear/openssh in preware Sep 14 01:19:22 JackieRipper: all without linux command line access Sep 14 01:19:49 spotter: it's a hard-coded limit of some sort in the LunaSysMgr Palm proprietary binary Sep 14 01:20:01 I just installed preware with WebOS Quick Install Sep 14 01:20:19 rwhitby, but what's the limit Sep 14 01:20:23 size? Sep 14 01:20:27 amount of apps? Sep 14 01:20:35 spotter: both it seems Sep 14 01:20:41 the full protocol is in the windows code now? Sep 14 01:20:44 and why would palm be so retarded to even do that? Sep 14 01:20:48 haven't found the exact number in the binary though Sep 14 01:20:53 so ssh won't be required? Sep 14 01:20:55 palm has made some braind dead decisions Sep 14 01:21:20 for the first time. I had always used the CLI before. rwhitby: so I should be able to just use preware to install optware and dropbear? Sep 14 01:21:33 JackieRipper: yes Sep 14 01:21:37 is oil here? Sep 14 01:21:46 JackieRipper: install the terminal first, so you can watch what happens Sep 14 01:21:51 rwhitby: I'll give it a shot Sep 14 01:22:14 JackieRipper: preware dropbear/openssh is standard port 22 keys only on wifi only Sep 14 01:22:27 JackieRipper: you know how to create a key and use it? Sep 14 01:22:35 rwhitby: yes Sep 14 01:22:49 rwhitby: why was 222 used to begin with? Sep 14 01:23:49 JackieRipper: just in case palm added ssh on 22 themselves, and also as just another layer of defence against script kiddies knocking on port 22 with passwords Sep 14 01:23:49 to throw the hackers off the trail Sep 14 01:24:57 ahh Sep 14 01:25:08 security through obscurity Sep 14 01:25:16 I've never been a big fan Sep 14 01:25:24 not on it's own, correct. Sep 14 01:25:44 rwhitby: so terminal is installed... next optware? Sep 14 01:26:26 JackieRipper: yep. then be ready in terminal to check some stuff out. Sep 14 01:26:41 JackieRipper: and you know you to get to the IPKG Log in Preware, right? Sep 14 01:27:01 term is open... no, I'm not familiar with the preware log Sep 14 01:27:21 after you install a package, click the OK and then check the menu for IPKG Log Sep 14 01:27:44 be ready to screenshot that if there are errors. Sep 14 01:28:18 JackieRipper: yours is the first on-Pre test of all this. Sep 14 01:28:35 cool Sep 14 01:29:17 installing optware bootstrap now Sep 14 01:29:43 JackieRipper: check for /etc/profile.d/org.webosinternals.optware and /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware Sep 14 01:29:58 and do initctl status org.webosinternals.optware Sep 14 01:31:46 /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware is there, but /etc/profile.d is missing Sep 14 01:32:09 The directory is missing Sep 14 01:32:10 JackieRipper: does IPKG Log identify the symlink error? Sep 14 01:32:22 yeah, forgot to create it. does ipkg log spot it? Sep 14 01:33:23 ln: /etc/profile.d/org.webosinternals.optware: No such file or directory Sep 14 01:33:58 ^^ That's the last line before "Completed" Sep 14 01:34:45 Finally... ugh, I hate working Sep 14 01:35:21 JackieRipper: excellent. Remove optware and I'll have a new version for you soon. Sep 14 01:35:57 cool Sep 14 01:37:27 /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware was removed on uninstall, as expected, I assume Sep 14 01:38:12 yep Sep 14 01:38:25 any errors in the ipkg log on remove? Sep 14 01:38:48 JackieRipper: optware 0.0.6 is now in the feed. Sep 14 01:39:08 we're looking for a clean install this time Sep 14 01:39:25 JackieRipper: before you reinstall can you check that /opt is not mounted? Sep 14 01:41:29 it is not Sep 14 01:41:48 good Sep 14 01:41:58 I should restart preware, correct? So it refreshes its feeds? Sep 14 01:42:09 just refresh the feeds in the menu item Sep 14 01:42:14 ahh Sep 14 01:42:45 done... installing optware Sep 14 01:43:20 JackieRipper: after you have installed optware, please reopen terminal and check that the $PATH includes /opt/... Sep 14 01:44:28 /opt/bin and /opt/sbin were added Sep 14 01:44:54 having :: in the PATH doesn't affect anything, does iT? Sep 14 01:46:00 rwhitby: there is no entry for /opt in fstab Sep 14 01:46:16 which will pose a problem, I assume Sep 14 01:47:47 JackieRipper: nope, it's done in the upstart script Sep 14 01:48:03 JackieRipper: where is :: in the path? Sep 14 01:48:46 JackieRipper: after optware is installed, can you reboot and double check that /opt is mounted and the path is correct? Sep 14 01:51:58 rwhitby: my PATH is now /usr/local/bin:.......:/sbin::/opt/bin:/opt/sbin Sep 14 01:52:25 rwhitby: that is, there are two colons between the old, standard path and the opt additions Sep 14 01:52:31 I think no big deal Sep 14 01:52:47 JackieRipper: seems that the Pre's path has a : on the end for some reason Sep 14 01:52:54 right Sep 14 01:53:12 we can choose what to do with that later, since the profile script can be easily updated and runs on every shell Sep 14 01:53:21 a simple tr -s ':' will fix it... but I doubt it needs fixing, really Sep 14 01:53:40 I'm rebooting now Sep 14 01:55:33 any reason the package service has its own icon? Does it do anything? Sep 14 01:56:13 seems to have disappeared... odd Sep 14 01:56:27 yep, it disappears on reboot. Sep 14 01:56:30 some bug in webos Sep 14 01:56:41 since we set visible:false Sep 14 01:56:51 /opt is mounted Sep 14 01:57:11 if you click on it, if just gives you a soothing message to ignore it until the next reboot. Sep 14 01:57:18 ahh Sep 14 01:59:04 next to test is dropbear? Sep 14 01:59:24 your choice, dropbear or openssh Sep 14 01:59:50 cab I do both? Use dropbear as a server and openssh as a client? Sep 14 01:59:54 yes Sep 14 02:00:13 I fixed update-alternatives support last night in ipkgservice 0.8.8 Sep 14 02:00:31 (we weren't passing the required env vars when we ran the postinst) Sep 14 02:00:59 does it matter which I install first? Sep 14 02:01:11 I'd rather not have both sshds fighting Sep 14 02:06:02 hmm - try dropbear first. Sep 14 02:06:15 ok, it's installed Sep 14 02:06:42 JackieRipper: might get a respawn storm at the moment if both are installed - I need to look at that. Sep 14 02:06:49 JackieRipper: so just install one for now. Sep 14 02:07:58 rwhitby: dropbear is installed... will I need to use terminal to create a user and/or keys? Sep 14 02:09:51 dropbear is running Sep 14 02:10:16 are upstart events and dependencies used? Sep 14 02:11:31 JackieRipper: you can use terminal to put a key in /home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys Sep 14 02:16:00 rwhitby: Permission denied (publickey). Sep 14 02:16:10 does dropbear support dsa? Sep 14 02:23:05 no Sep 14 02:23:58 gkatsev: on what basis do you say that? Sep 14 02:24:44 my understanding is it supports rsa and dss Sep 14 02:24:54 rwhitby: tried both Sep 14 02:25:00 checking perms now Sep 14 02:25:12 JackieRipper: just what I was going to suggest next :-) Sep 14 02:25:50 root's home is 755.. which should be fine, right? Sep 14 02:25:59 yep Sep 14 02:26:11 JackieRipper: anything in /var/log/messages ? Sep 14 02:27:44 user root has blank password, rejected Sep 14 02:27:47 heh Sep 14 02:29:06 ah, good. Sep 14 02:29:27 rwhitby: never mind misunderstood context and question Sep 14 02:29:46 mounted / rw, ran passwd, mounted / ro, and I can get in Sep 14 02:29:57 rwhitby: maybe just set a random root password on install Sep 14 02:30:21 but then if anyone uses usbnet and ssh as root, that's bad, nevermind Sep 14 02:30:30 destinal: that's a good idea. The user can always reset it manually if desired Sep 14 02:30:36 true, they have the key Sep 14 02:31:24 destinal: they can just get in via terminal and re-run passwd Sep 14 02:31:34 rwhitby: sure Sep 14 02:31:37 the start script for dropbear disabled password logins as it stands Sep 14 02:31:44 rwhitby: I wonder what happens if you just set root password to * Sep 14 02:31:49 JackieRipper: yep, intentionally Sep 14 02:31:58 rwhitby: and rightly so :) Sep 14 02:32:17 destinal: JackieRipper can try it :-) Sep 14 02:32:27 err I mean in /etc/passwd Sep 14 02:32:33 yep Sep 14 02:32:45 rwhitby, destinal: I think setting root's password to a random value is probably a good thing, but it may break novaterm Sep 14 02:32:54 JackieRipper: it doesn't break novaterm Sep 14 02:33:16 novaterm won't ask for the password if it's set? Sep 14 02:33:28 no, novacom daemon on the device cares nothing about root passwords Sep 14 02:33:39 ok Sep 14 02:33:45 anyone in here know php? Sep 14 02:34:03 Decimation_: I know enough to avoid it like the plague :) Sep 14 02:34:09 I know from experience it cares about root's shell, so I wasn't sure how much of the passwd entry it cared about Sep 14 02:34:51 * rwhitby snapshots the emulator and tries * in /etc/passwd for root Sep 14 02:35:17 does lvm support snapshotting? Sep 14 02:36:01 setting it to * works Sep 14 02:36:09 on the phone Sep 14 02:36:28 root:*:0:0:root:/home/root:/bin/sh Sep 14 02:36:39 brb - cigarette break Sep 14 02:36:58 destinal: Terminal seems to want to login if root passwd is * Sep 14 02:37:13 so it asks for a username and passwd and fails to log in Sep 14 02:39:49 destinal: so Terminal doesn't like a disabled root password. Sep 14 02:40:22 http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/slippers03.jpg Sep 14 02:41:06 lol Sep 14 02:41:31 so weird. Sep 14 02:41:39 rwhitby: if the password is set, will it ask? Sep 14 02:43:04 JackieRipper: if a password is empty, or set, it does not ask. Sep 14 02:43:05 answered my own question: no, it doesn't ask Sep 14 02:43:09 cool Sep 14 02:43:27 so random password looks like the only way to go Sep 14 02:43:36 time to package pwgen ... Sep 14 02:45:13 I actually miss the login in the terminal Sep 14 02:45:45 having it start a root shell without authentication.... not sure I like it Sep 14 02:48:43 JackieRipper: org.webosinternals.pwgen is now in the public feeds Sep 14 02:48:53 5 minutes exactly to package and release it Sep 14 02:49:41 rwhitby: does preware handle prerequisites yet? Sep 14 02:49:53 JackieRipper: oil is working on it right now Sep 14 02:50:03 oil: awesome Sep 14 02:50:13 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=optware/pwgen/Makefile is all I needed to write to package pwgen Sep 14 02:51:48 (since it was already in optware) Sep 14 02:52:13 JackieRipper: ok, your set for testing dropbear now? Sep 14 02:52:22 s/your/you're/ Sep 14 02:52:24 rwhitby meant: JackieRipper: ok, you're set for testing dropbear now? Sep 14 02:52:32 rwhitby: depends... Sep 14 02:53:12 rwhitby: just need to verify the testing process: blank root's password, uninstall dropbear, install pwgen, install dropbear Sep 14 02:53:24 JackieRipper: don't try and install openssh as well yet, but feed free to test removing dropbear, making sure the daemon is gone, and installing openssh Sep 14 02:54:17 JackieRipper: nope, install dropbear, install pwgen, set root's password manually choosing one from pwgen (dropbear postinst will eventually do that, or perhaps we should change it on every boot?) Sep 14 02:55:04 rwhitby: I would not change it on every boot, as the user may want to set it to a known value at some point Sep 14 02:55:17 pwgen -s -1 64 Sep 14 02:55:23 rwhitby: there's no reason for it now, but we may well discover something in the future Sep 14 02:55:35 JackieRipper: agreed Sep 14 02:55:38 rwhitby: I would also grep '^root::' || pwgen etc Sep 14 02:55:48 only randomly generate if it's null Sep 14 02:55:56 destinal: agreed Sep 14 02:56:15 is apg ported in optware? Sep 14 02:56:18 is 64 random characters strong enough? Sep 14 02:56:31 sounds excessive Sep 14 02:56:46 acydlord: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make Sep 14 02:56:54 bpadalino: it should never need to be typed Sep 14 02:57:47 still sounds excessive Sep 14 02:57:50 destinal, rather than checking for null, should we check for != 35 characters? Sep 14 02:58:18 sad, no apg Sep 14 02:58:27 acydlord: you can change that ... Sep 14 02:58:30 but if i recall apg was ported to armel for maemo Sep 14 02:58:33 * rwhitby bbiab - you guys figure out the appropriate security protocol and let me know Sep 14 02:58:40 rwhitby, true **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 14 02:59:57 2009