**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Sep 14 02:59:57 2009 Sep 14 03:00:10 At present, it really doesn't matter how strong the password is. Remote logins using passwords are disabled, and local logins require no passwords. Sep 14 03:06:24 rwhitby: how much more do you need for a pre? Sep 14 03:10:51 rwhitby: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mob/1372954414.html - 200, could be yours as of now!~ Sep 14 03:11:09 rwhitby: dropbear uninstalled cleanly Sep 14 03:12:21 the transition from no flags to flags will be interesting Sep 14 03:12:40 openssh did not start on install Sep 14 03:12:44 sshd, rather Sep 14 03:15:13 21:36 < tmzt> yeah, I'm wondering why we couldn't split the service doing phone from the one doing ui Sep 14 03:15:16 21:36 < tmzt> we should discuss that in #webos-internals though Sep 14 03:17:39 tmzt, they are separated - the jvm provides telephony services .. and can crash without causing the UI to crash at all Sep 14 03:18:01 so the ui could be shut down and phone calls handled over dbus? Sep 14 03:18:13 mickeyl: still here? Sep 14 03:19:28 should be possible, yes Sep 14 03:19:49 by jvm you mean it's java bytecode? Sep 14 03:19:52 the ril is Sep 14 03:20:15 ril ? Sep 14 03:20:25 radio interface layer Sep 14 03:20:52 yeah, Luna only accesses the functionality that is exposed by the java interface and running via it's own upstart script .. Sep 14 03:21:12 right, but bytecode or native through jni? Sep 14 03:21:19 this gets more interesting then Sep 14 03:22:21 there is a native application which i believe exposes functionality to dbus which the java service/adapter uses to expose onto dbus as well ... but Luna only gets access through the java interface Sep 14 03:24:55 can somebody paste qdbus or other dump of the dbus services? Sep 14 03:24:55 or are these currently documentsed in wiki? Sep 14 03:26:15 rwhitby: a few bugs to report, sadly. The openssh daemon does not start after install, starting it manually complains about being unable to load host keys "no host keys available -- exiting". The ssh client segfaults. When the install/uninstall is complete, the notification says, "Optware [Install|Removal] Completed" - it should say, "OpenSSH [Install|Removal] Completed" Sep 14 03:28:16 JackieRipper: thanks - the ssh client one is the only one I'm concerned about - the last one is actually how it should work "Optware" is the package type. Sep 14 03:29:10 rwhitby: The description of openssh in preware does claim the daemon will work... Sep 14 03:29:32 JackieRipper: it ran at least on the emulator Sep 14 03:30:34 I'll uninstall and install again, so I can check the log Sep 14 03:30:44 JackieRipper: regarding password strength - the answer is more about avoiding an Engadget story "too weak password set on Pre" rather than current technical requirements. Sep 14 03:32:08 rwhitby: agreed. Personally, I would like to see a completely random password, including the use of symbols, set by the *ssh post-install scripts Sep 14 03:32:24 JackieRipper: pwgen should do that Sep 14 03:32:25 The user can always change it later, and never needs to know the value. Sep 14 03:33:05 and I agree the post-install scripts will do that if the user has not modified the root password already (and none of our previous instructions have said to do that as far a I remember) Sep 14 03:33:20 rwhitby: I'm not familiar with pwgen. Does it actually update /etc/passwd? Sep 14 03:33:29 no Sep 14 03:33:46 just prints the password - will need to backtick it in sed Sep 14 03:34:38 is there a way to feed passwd a string from stdin? Sep 14 03:34:41 $() Sep 14 03:35:09 We may have to pass it through md5 and edit /etc/passwd manually Sep 14 03:36:34 * rwhitby hopes Palm fixes the busybox help in 1.2 ... Sep 14 03:37:01 rwhitby: there's something wrong with the openssh's postinstall script. There are unprintable characters and a directory named ( Sep 14 03:37:06 I'll pastebin it Sep 14 03:38:53 JackieRipper: looks ok in the autobuilder area Sep 14 03:40:08 and looks fine in an unpacked version of the ipkg from the feed Sep 14 03:40:36 * rwhitby bbiab Sep 14 03:40:47 rwhitby: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m6e37c0d2 Sep 14 03:41:08 ".pub and (.pub seem like bad paths to me Sep 14 03:41:25 JackieRipper: what's in /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.openssh.postinst ? Sep 14 03:42:20 rtwhitby: I may have missed it- How much more to you need for the fund in order to get a pre? (sorry!) Sep 14 03:42:52 open question: what's the best technical (i.e. not for binz, but for reading real technical discussion) usenet reader on macosx? Sep 14 03:43:45 jkc: depends on the cost of the Pre and shipping - my .sig on PreCentral always has the latest figure, which is currently $200 Sep 14 03:44:11 rwhitby: I like Unison, though have occasionally dropped back to tin in a shell Sep 14 03:44:33 slrn is pretty decent Sep 14 03:45:18 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Slrn.png Sep 14 03:45:29 unison is pretty good .. but not free Sep 14 03:45:50 http://www.panic.com/unison/ Sep 14 03:55:37 rwhitby: check your paypal. Pretty sure you are over the top now. Sep 14 04:00:18 rwhitby: ssh-keygen in not accepting the -f flag. The keys are being generated in the cwd Sep 14 04:03:15 rwhitby: and it is nameing them � �.pub Sep 14 04:16:41 rwhitby: another bug report: The postinstall script for bash does "echo '/var/bin/bash' >> /etc/shells". By default, the Pre doesn't have /etc/shells, so this command creates it, but only populates it with bash, which means /bin/sh and /bin/ash are no longer valid shells. Sep 14 04:17:55 rwiitby: you out there? Sep 14 04:18:50 sorry, was offline Sep 14 04:19:11 jkc: holey moley! Sep 14 04:19:29 uh oh Sep 14 04:19:35 big donation ? Sep 14 04:20:12 um, yes. Sep 14 04:20:15 * rwhitby blushes Sep 14 04:20:21 wow Sep 14 04:20:48 woohoo Sep 14 04:21:51 jkc: are you sure? Sep 14 04:22:26 JackieRipper: so it looks like the binaries for armv7 are borked. I'll probably need to package the libraries instead of just using the ones on the device. Sep 14 04:22:57 rwhitby: what are you going to do if/when the Pre comes out in Australia ah la GSM? Sep 14 04:23:13 get er dun. Sep 14 04:23:30 Eguy: the cdma pre will be used for finding a serial port. google my name and serial port to see my experience there :-) Sep 14 04:24:03 Eguy: and then jtag, etc if needed. Sep 14 04:24:28 always good to find Sep 14 04:24:35 rwhitby: I haven't set git up yet... This is the current postinst for bash: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m15299dd6 Sep 14 04:25:09 rwhitby: this is a revised script that won't break sh and ash: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m3022188 Sep 14 04:25:13 JackieRipper: oh, that's PuffTheMagic's bash, I haven't packaged it from optware yet. Sep 14 04:26:11 rwhitby: ahhh Sep 14 04:28:09 Thanks to you all. Keep it up. nite. Sep 14 04:28:29 aunt minnie strikes again http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/202886-root-how.html Sep 14 04:30:02 http://www.everythingpre.com/forum/homebrew-apps/how-to-root-the-pre-20035.html#post95077 Sep 14 04:30:15 omg... telnet?!?!?! Sep 14 04:30:44 ugh Sep 14 04:31:36 before novaterm and the sdk, yeah - we used telnetd since it came on the pre .. Sep 14 04:32:01 and left it running, open to the world? Sep 14 04:32:36 heh, I kept reading the date on that post as 6 Oct, and thought "atlanta knows better than that, why is he using telnet?" Sep 14 04:32:43 heh Sep 14 04:33:07 How are those instructions easier than running the script? Sep 14 04:33:24 look at the date Sep 14 04:33:38 6/10 Sep 14 04:34:03 optware/dropbear were suggested by the, if I recall correctly Sep 14 04:34:34 4 days after release Sep 14 04:34:37 yes Sep 14 04:34:43 6/6/2009 THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL Sep 14 04:34:59 Wednesday Sep 14 04:35:02 i didn't get my pre until that monday Sep 14 04:35:10 6 was a saturday i thought? Sep 14 04:35:22 right, and the 10th was Wednesday Sep 14 04:35:42 ah yeah Sep 14 04:36:02 so when did geist tweet that he was watching us find novaterm Sep 14 04:36:34 probably about then Sep 14 04:36:38 novaterm came way after dropbear Sep 14 04:36:48 or rather, we started using it Sep 14 04:37:38 june 10th 3:26:36am ... not sure what timezone (guessing rwhitby's timezone?) Sep 14 04:37:56 bpadalino: UTC I think Sep 14 04:38:06 ah Sep 14 04:38:06 6/10 never forget Sep 14 04:38:09 hehe Sep 14 04:38:19 geist, did you catch a movie ? Sep 14 04:38:27 nah, went home Sep 14 04:38:33 it's raining now. first time in forever Sep 14 04:38:39 whereever it is Sep 14 04:38:09 right now, that's the timezone Sep 14 04:38:56 GMT it sounds like Sep 14 04:39:03 indeed Sep 14 04:40:52 geist: hasen't rained in LA since the big bang :P Sep 14 04:41:12 norcal > socal Sep 14 04:41:13 are there fires still happening in southern california ? Sep 14 04:41:38 Don't even geist, don't even Sep 14 04:42:25 geist: anyone who can tell us the maximum reasonable amount of data to push as a ServiceMessage over dbus in one chunk> Sep 14 04:43:19 no idea Sep 14 04:44:06 250KB seems to be too big ;-) Sep 14 04:44:36 yeah, probably is Sep 14 04:45:26 I'm figuring 4K might be a nice round number. Sep 14 04:47:05 the dbus standard says 128MB, but that's a bit much for a java VM with a 10MB heap ... Sep 14 04:47:47 rwhitby: is 250kb what ipkgservice ends up trying to send ? Sep 14 04:48:19 bpadalino: actually 374K lately Sep 14 04:48:51 i see Sep 14 04:49:25 yeah, i have no idea how the internals of dbus works Sep 14 04:49:32 except it goes through a server Sep 14 04:49:39 dont know if it has to deliver it in one shot or anything Sep 14 04:49:56 see now.. novacom could handle your data Sep 14 04:49:58 geist: we're going to change it to use subscribe and send multiple chunks Sep 14 04:49:59 but no Sep 14 04:50:27 for abstracting away ipc it kind of works well it seems ... except there is some magic that has to happen for the binary data Sep 14 04:51:03 geist, i think it's being used for fetching ipkg data and sending it up to mojo .. i don't think novacom can help out there :( Sep 14 04:51:20 yeah, that's cause it can't handle the novacom Sep 14 04:51:23 it aint ready for it Sep 14 04:51:38 hahaha, yes - absolutely Sep 14 04:52:25 novacom access from mojo would solve quite a few problems, but there'd need to be a good security framework around it ;-) Sep 14 04:52:58 security model for novacom seems to be fast and loose Sep 14 04:53:11 fit for current purpose Sep 14 04:53:19 with great power comes great responsibility Sep 14 04:53:24 security is for chumps Sep 14 04:53:47 geist, do you have your root password tattoo'd on your arm? :) Sep 14 04:54:04 shart, i just had a good idea AFTER seting up my eclipse workspace Sep 14 04:54:21 i can put my eclipse workspace in dropbox so i can use the same workspace on all computers Sep 14 04:54:58 ide's are for chumps Sep 14 04:55:22 ... yeah it just isn't the same coming from me Sep 14 04:55:41 well i was using notepad++ before, but lost track of projects Sep 14 04:56:39 work tomorrow :( Sep 14 04:57:35 oil: ping Sep 14 05:03:03 geist, how many other guys end up working on the kernel stuff with you? just chrisa or a couple more people ? Sep 14 05:03:37 probably about 10 total Sep 14 05:04:03 about 8 on the official kernel team Sep 14 05:04:24 and then a few on the product driver team (where chrisa is) Sep 14 05:04:50 do the digital hardware engineers ever ask you for recommendations on components ? Sep 14 05:05:14 not as much as we'd like, but we go to schematic reviews and whatnot Sep 14 05:05:18 we add our input Sep 14 05:05:32 pre was kind of a bad example, since it was mostly designed before a lot of us started Sep 14 05:05:43 so it has some wonky, less than friendly sw stuff Sep 14 05:06:09 that's one of the places where palm is re-learning how to be integrated Sep 14 05:06:27 for too long it had bifurcated itself into hw and sw Sep 14 05:07:49 msm is a little of both Sep 14 05:08:04 msm as in what? Sep 14 05:08:17 msm7k Sep 14 05:08:32 yeah, it's a huge pain Sep 14 05:08:46 so much of the hardware is controlled by the radio Sep 14 05:08:53 hows qualcomm msm documentation versus ti omap ? Sep 14 05:09:36 i imagine most of the air interface is just stock qualcomm software you throw onto their baseband processor Sep 14 05:10:32 on the msm6k probably, like in Pre Sep 14 05:10:46 msm7k is in practically all of the android phones up until now Sep 14 05:11:10 android essentially did the linux port to it, which is showing up in the last few releases of linux Sep 14 05:11:54 did you thank your google buddies last time you saw them ? Sep 14 05:12:09 oh yes, absolutely Sep 14 05:12:15 so many of the android specific choices, device names etc. are in the kernel Sep 14 05:12:31 speaking of the MSM7627 in the Pixi... Sep 14 05:12:33 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9895/palm-pixi-processor-full-spec-sheet/ Sep 14 05:12:39 Qualcomm sent that to me the other day Sep 14 05:12:40 but the aurora tree is more generic Sep 14 05:12:54 freakout: nice, i didn't expect that Sep 14 05:12:59 freakout = shameless plug Sep 14 05:13:02 :P Sep 14 05:13:04 lol Sep 14 05:13:16 Thanks for the info Sep 14 05:13:18 geist: neither did I. They even tried to find pictures for me, but only had a generic shot Sep 14 05:13:19 i am amazed qualcomm sent you something Sep 14 05:13:27 Eguy: gotta take it where I can get it Sep 14 05:13:31 :P Sep 14 05:13:36 yeah Sep 14 05:13:41 though to be fair QC is getting better Sep 14 05:13:46 are they ? Sep 14 05:13:55 i think android beat them up enough that they finally realized that they have to deal with linux Sep 14 05:14:02 i am somewhat glad LTE is winning over anything qualcomm was pushing Sep 14 05:14:25 600MHz applications processor with floating point unit and L2 cache Sep 14 05:14:27 the more they dont cooperate, the more companies like android just go around them Sep 14 05:14:33 and then they end up not controlling anything Sep 14 05:14:38 vfp Sep 14 05:14:40 TI figured this out a long time ago Sep 14 05:14:45 vfp? Sep 14 05:15:17 like i said before, i'm very curious about the pixi power numbers Sep 14 05:15:26 and if they can get a good amount more running time out of it Sep 14 05:15:48 as are we. it's a good portion of what we spend our time on Sep 14 05:16:06 everything is measured against what power it will take, any feature has to be balanced with that, etc Sep 14 05:16:13 power management has to be built in from the beginning ... that's for sure Sep 14 05:16:19 the project i am on now was too quick and dirty Sep 14 05:16:19 and gpu, improved over 720x? Sep 14 05:16:28 and our RF board is ... terrible Sep 14 05:16:32 tmzt: dunno, i've never worked with a 72xx Sep 14 05:16:42 if you were given the radio in the dead of winter, you'd be glad you had a nice hand warmer Sep 14 05:16:43 :) Sep 14 05:16:46 tmzt: iirc, the cpu on the 7x27 is a arm1176 Sep 14 05:17:05 yeah, arm11 for the gpp, arm9 for the bb processor most likely .. Sep 14 05:17:11 haven't heard of that Sep 14 05:17:18 but it's all about the L2. putting a L2 in front of an arm will easily speed it up 3x Sep 14 05:17:47 that's why iphone got their big speedup with the 3gs. the cortex-a8 vs an arm11 is not that big of a win, but L2 cache versus none is huge Sep 14 05:18:00 absolutely Sep 14 05:18:01 vfp is missing on the others Sep 14 05:18:15 and they're 1136 Sep 14 05:18:15 tmzt: ah, yeah that too Sep 14 05:18:38 forgot that the other 7ks are like the only arm11s in the business without vfp Sep 14 05:18:49 and webkit and whatnot uses the fpu pretty hard Sep 14 05:18:55 yeah Sep 14 05:19:11 probably partog the hero problems Sep 14 05:19:19 part of Sep 14 05:19:23 is no vfp Sep 14 05:19:45 that's the nice thing about starting webos at this point in time. we can start on the leading edge of mobile cpus Sep 14 05:19:48 and not worry about older stuff Sep 14 05:19:56 we'll always have EABI, vfp, etc Sep 14 05:20:02 i was very happy to see you guys using the omap3, that's for sure Sep 14 05:20:07 it's a much better situation than even a few years ago Sep 14 05:20:09 if the gpu is that much better Sep 14 05:20:32 though we will have the neon vs no neon problem Sep 14 05:20:43 but that's much better than fpu vs no, or dealing with pre armv6 Sep 14 05:20:44 it rally hurts on the others though it could partly be the drivers Sep 14 05:20:49 yeah Sep 14 05:21:25 but still two userlands Sep 14 05:21:39 yeah Sep 14 05:21:56 something ipkg doeswell though Sep 14 05:22:21 its architecture numbers Sep 14 05:22:30 yeah Sep 14 05:22:49 yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah Sep 14 05:22:52 also, since 3rd parties dont write native code, two user spaces isn't a big deal Sep 14 05:22:53 What if God was one of us? Sep 14 05:22:59 * freakout stops singing bad songs now. Sep 14 05:24:33 still haven't decided what to do about thumb yet though Sep 14 05:24:50 you were planning on using it ? Sep 14 05:24:51 in the past i've found thumb to be a big win, but with an L2 in front of the cpu it appears to not make much difference anymore Sep 14 05:24:54 thumb1? Sep 14 05:25:08 well, thumb2 is a no brainer, once the toolchain supports it Sep 14 05:25:20 big win just due to reduces code size ? Sep 14 05:25:20 but still, if it doesn't make much of a difference, it's probably not worth it Sep 14 05:25:30 reduced rather Sep 14 05:25:31 but not on armv6 Sep 14 05:25:39 on a cache starved system, a lot of times that actually equates to higher performance Sep 14 05:25:52 i pushed for thumb real hard when i was at apple, and that's why iphone uses it Sep 14 05:26:05 ran a bunch of benchmarks and it actually ran better most of the time Sep 14 05:26:10 android does too Sep 14 05:26:18 but we really didn't have time to mess with it before getting webos out Sep 14 05:26:27 omap3 doesn't have l2? Sep 14 05:26:36 especially thumb2, which is poorly supported on all but the most current toolchains Sep 14 05:26:39 tmzt: yep, it does Sep 14 05:28:22 so the latest code sourcery arm7 toolchain supports thumb2 ? Sep 14 05:28:30 yes Sep 14 05:28:30 geist: we're a third party that writes native code, but we know how to do multiple archs. Sep 14 05:28:39 pa on msm nand or sd Sep 14 05:28:44 os Sep 14 05:28:59 rwhitby: well, also you can just target armv6 and be okay Sep 14 05:29:06 only place you'll get into trouble is neon Sep 14 05:29:20 ugh Sep 14 05:30:02 Why I dislike engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/is-this-palms-revamped-app-catalog/ Sep 14 05:30:33 would the root fs be on msm nand or sd Sep 14 05:31:03 tmzt: on pixi? Sep 14 05:31:12 if its msm nand must be jffsor yaffs Sep 14 05:31:16 yeah Sep 14 05:31:29 Ican figur it out though Sep 14 05:31:37 :) Sep 14 05:31:50 sd, same as pre Sep 14 05:32:13 interesting Sep 14 05:32:19 kesne: how come? Sep 14 05:32:26 Well Sep 14 05:32:32 PreCentral covered that Sep 14 05:32:33 Well Sep 14 05:32:45 oh right. hey, you were the tipster weren't you? Sep 14 05:32:50 appsbl must benin flash of some kind Sep 14 05:32:59 Actually, Decimation and I were Sep 14 05:33:03 Yeah Sep 14 05:33:13 tmzt: sure, modem has its own flash Sep 14 05:33:23 And Engadget grabs the photos, watermarks them and gives no mention to us or precentral Sep 14 05:33:44 heh. I blogged the same story, but i did credit Precentral with it Sep 14 05:33:48 ah, the cut-throat tech blogosphere ... Sep 14 05:33:53 lol Sep 14 05:34:15 as if any of them really matter ;-) Sep 14 05:34:20 BTW kesne, not wanting to sound too desperate, but if you've ever got a hot tip and some spare time... Sep 14 05:34:21 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news-tips.asp Sep 14 05:34:26 maybe threa room for a recovet image or something Sep 14 05:34:26 or tim@mobileinfocenter.com Sep 14 05:34:30 just saying ;) Sep 14 05:34:34 recovery Sep 14 05:34:46 freakout you from Palm Infocenter? Sep 14 05:34:55 * freakout nods Sep 14 05:35:18 we're making a very concerted effort to make our products similar for things like bootstrapping, recovery, etc Sep 14 05:35:30 sounds like a solid plan Sep 14 05:35:34 i designed a lot of how that sort of stuff works on webos, and thus far it's working pretty well Sep 14 05:36:12 good job geist Sep 14 05:36:59 do you ever go to meetings with rubinstein ? Sep 14 05:37:02 if we just think of tpartition 1 stuff moving to msm nand it makes sense Sep 14 05:37:18 anybody know the system fonts are stored? Sep 14 05:37:31 but that keeps the needndoe msm nand drivers in kernel Sep 14 05:38:09 and things like h1 had, mtd expaed to root user Sep 14 05:38:17 g1 Sep 14 05:38:21 bpadalino: no, but i have met him before Sep 14 05:38:26 used to work for him at apple too Sep 14 05:38:37 anyway, gotta go. back in a few Sep 14 05:39:03 nevermind Sep 14 05:39:17 as opposed to the clean block sd drivers on pre Sep 14 05:44:17 i wonder if the announcing GSM on tuesday rumor is true.. Sep 14 05:44:33 what event would it coincide with ? Sep 14 05:45:11 i don't even remember, i think i saw it on engadget.. Sep 14 05:46:51 unless its carrier announcement Sep 14 05:47:28 you think palm would give up an announcement to a carrier ? Sep 14 05:47:57 6800 was an interesting choice for a single technolog device Sep 14 05:48:25 JackieRipper: is there an issue with my bash? Sep 14 05:48:56 PuffTheMagic: the post-install script creates /etc/shells Sep 14 05:49:19 PuffTheMagic: and populates it only with bash, making ask and sh invalid Sep 14 05:49:25 ash* Sep 14 05:49:45 ahh Sep 14 05:49:56 so if it dont exist i should add /bin/sh also Sep 14 05:50:23 http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m3022188 Sep 14 05:51:36 i instantly change my shell in /etc/passwd to bash i never tested it with ash ;) Sep 14 05:55:02 DraX: where'd you hear that rumor? Sep 14 05:56:33 evening Sep 14 05:56:50 freakout: one of the news sites.. engadget/gizmodo/precentral/palminfocenter i don't remember which or even the details really just tuesday + maybe gsm Sep 14 05:57:03 could even have been phandroid. :) Sep 14 05:57:03 k Sep 14 05:57:13 * freakout tries not to get hopes up for unlocked GSM goodness soon... Sep 14 05:57:15 maybe someone can help when i use the media sync feature i always get installing novacom linux but no driver is found Sep 14 05:57:18 any ideas ? Sep 14 05:57:33 freakout: yeah... i want badly Sep 14 05:57:53 freakout is freaking out? Sep 14 05:58:00 lol Sep 14 05:58:03 *always* Sep 14 05:58:11 Doctors tell me it's bad for my blood pressure Sep 14 05:58:17 but what do they know Sep 14 05:58:30 probably quite a bit Sep 14 05:59:07 yeah, them with their fancy "edyookashuns" and "syense" Sep 14 05:59:59 What will be the *real* freak out is the unlocked price, I'm guessing Sep 14 06:00:11 2000 Sep 14 06:00:20 probably similar to the unsubsidized price Sep 14 06:00:22 i would think Sep 14 06:00:23 i'd lol but it's probably true /depression Sep 14 06:00:34 what would be really funny Sep 14 06:00:58 if it was announced right after rwhitby ordered a non-gsm pre Sep 14 06:01:06 oil: lol Sep 14 06:01:10 that would just be cruel Sep 14 06:01:26 oil: I have a chunk-based rawlist ready to go Sep 14 06:01:36 oh rly Sep 14 06:01:39 announced and available are two different things tho Sep 14 06:01:46 yeah Sep 14 06:01:53 oil: I made it backwards-compatible too. Sep 14 06:01:54 bpadalino: you would think indeed, but the unlocked Treo 650 commanded a pretty big premium over the US price from what i remembered Sep 14 06:01:58 but if it was announced, he wouldn't exactly be looking to buy a non-gsm pre though Sep 14 06:02:09 freakout: ah, i didn't know Sep 14 06:02:30 bpadalino: i'm not sure i do either, my memory is not terribly reliable ;) Sep 14 06:02:51 rwhitby, how do i go about using of it? Sep 14 06:03:27 oil: first, you pass "subscribe": true Sep 14 06:03:40 oil: you will get a message with "stage" == "start" which contains "filesize" and "chunksize" fields, but no "contents" field. Sep 14 06:03:40 this is per-feed? Sep 14 06:03:45 oil: yes Sep 14 06:03:49 ok Sep 14 06:03:54 well Sep 14 06:04:05 ill wait for hte explanation Sep 14 06:04:10 oil: then you will get multiple "stage" == "middle" messages, with "size" and "contents" fields. Sep 14 06:04:11 for when there is an ipk i can test iwth Sep 14 06:04:53 oil: then you will finally get a "stage" == "end" message, with no contents, but with the final "datasize" field (which may, for some reason, be smaller than the original "filesize") Sep 14 06:05:19 oil: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.8.9_all.ipk Sep 14 06:05:31 ok Sep 14 06:05:34 also Sep 14 06:05:39 oil: if you leave off the "subscribe": true, then it's the same as before. Sep 14 06:05:52 we'll have to think about how we want to to the move from no flags to flags Sep 14 06:06:10 night Sep 14 06:06:11 yes, we will. Sep 14 06:06:30 right now, i stripped all the other stuff out Sep 14 06:06:35 so it only works with flags Sep 14 06:06:52 the currently pushed version that is Sep 14 06:07:05 are we upping hte aipVersion for this split? Sep 14 06:07:15 yes, this is apiVersion 4. Sep 14 06:07:16 since pre 089 doesn't have the split Sep 14 06:07:17 4? Sep 14 06:07:18 lol Sep 14 06:07:18 Quick room question: can webOS mount external storage? i.e. sd cards, usb drives? Sep 14 06:07:20 we skipped a number? Sep 14 06:07:21 awesome Sep 14 06:07:34 can webos, or can the pre? Sep 14 06:07:41 Both :) Sep 14 06:07:53 oil: but it is backwards compatible, so we didn't really need to bump it. Sep 14 06:07:55 thanks for clarifying Sep 14 06:08:00 however, i dont know the answer to either Sep 14 06:08:02 I know webOS is Linux-based, so it's there Sep 14 06:08:09 under the surface anyway. Sep 14 06:08:19 but is there any top-level stuff that hints at it? Sep 14 06:08:30 not that ive ever seen Sep 14 06:08:53 actualy, it would be good if some other alpha tester tested ipkgservice 0.8.9 to make sure it still works with the currently released preware Sep 14 06:08:54 kk Sep 14 06:09:07 rwhitby, I'll load it up now if you'd like Sep 14 06:09:12 thx Sep 14 06:09:38 freakout: i think somebody in here mentioned that they'd been working on getting their pre to mount a umass device Sep 14 06:09:44 oil: not that chunks may be split in the middle of anything - there is no parsing to get clean breaks or anything. Sep 14 06:09:49 s/not/note/ Sep 14 06:09:49 rwhitby meant: oil: note that chunks may be split in the middle of anything - there is no parsing to get clean breaks or anything. Sep 14 06:09:58 right Sep 14 06:10:07 you just get the next 4096 chars and that's it. Sep 14 06:10:10 DraX: yeah, i thought I'd seen that too Sep 14 06:10:13 ill just be sticking them all together Sep 14 06:10:19 then parsing Sep 14 06:10:23 at the end stage Sep 14 06:10:36 yeah, I figured that would be easiest for you. Sep 14 06:10:53 that's why I give you the max size at the start Sep 14 06:11:13 huh Sep 14 06:11:17 not sure what im going to do with it Sep 14 06:11:25 considering there is no way for me to re-call a specific part Sep 14 06:11:34 if you need to preallocate a string, so save continual reallocating .... Sep 14 06:11:48 im not sure how that works with javascript Sep 14 06:11:57 neither am I :-) Sep 14 06:12:01 i just set var everything = ''; Sep 14 06:12:09 then everything += whatIgot; Sep 14 06:12:14 lol Sep 14 06:12:29 maybe we'll just move the memory problem over to your side ;-) Sep 14 06:12:35 idk Sep 14 06:12:41 its already handling the string you send ok Sep 14 06:12:48 the problem was sending it all over the bus, right? Sep 14 06:12:56 so by splitting it up, makes no difference on the js side Sep 14 06:13:05 the problem seemed to be the JSON.toString just before it went in the packet Sep 14 06:13:43 and, the service seems to have updated hte copy i hve on my pre Sep 14 06:13:56 which is has no changes to the updating/loading portion of the code from 085 Sep 14 06:14:34 good, I figured backwards compatibility was important to remove the need for a flag day Sep 14 06:14:59 Hey. Sep 14 06:15:04 but Sep 14 06:15:12 the old apps wont work with no flags Sep 14 06:15:17 and the new app wont work with flags Sep 14 06:15:19 i mean Sep 14 06:15:21 yeah Sep 14 06:15:33 rwhitby: no obvious bugs leap out (ipkgservice 0 Sep 14 06:15:34 something like that Sep 14 06:15:40 bah Sep 14 06:15:55 ipkgservice 0.8.9, preware 0.8.5 Sep 14 06:16:07 haven't tried 086 yet? Sep 14 06:16:08 xD Sep 14 06:16:15 haha Sep 14 06:16:26 Actually I was running 1.0 Sep 14 06:16:39 1.0 is garbage Sep 14 06:16:42 But reverted. I thought it sucked Sep 14 06:16:45 lol Sep 14 06:16:48 lol Sep 14 06:17:45 1.0 is better than 1.1 Sep 14 06:18:00 086 is sexy with the palm-dark theme xD Sep 14 06:18:52 :D Sep 14 06:18:54 ooooo Sep 14 06:19:01 aaaaahhhhh Sep 14 06:19:04 here I am, slaving away on memory optimisations, and oil is just adding bling ;-) Sep 14 06:19:04 oil: i wondered why you didnt do that from the beginning Sep 14 06:19:07 all your other apps were Sep 14 06:19:10 lol Sep 14 06:19:11 lol Sep 14 06:19:14 its got the option Sep 14 06:19:25 * freakout pictures oil coding whilst laden with gold chains Sep 14 06:19:29 it defaults to palm-default though Sep 14 06:19:31 And no pants, of course. Sep 14 06:19:38 rwhitby: dont bother optimizing it in C, just rewrite it with me in C :D Sep 14 06:19:57 * oil looks forward to c service Sep 14 06:20:14 really though, adding the dark styles took all of like 10 minutes Sep 14 06:20:18 oil: when can you start doing the uber monitor gui thing? Sep 14 06:20:20 mostly creating some new art Sep 14 06:20:54 when there is something i can test with that doesn't require me de-virginizing my pre :) Sep 14 06:21:26 PuffTheMagic: you may also want to include an uninstall script, so users aren't stuck with bash as their default shell after removal. Something like http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m1098f94 Sep 14 06:21:52 i htought i did remove it in the prerm script... Sep 14 06:21:58 hmm Sep 14 06:22:02 rwhitby: so the subscribtion is only on the rawlist, not rawstatus method, right? Sep 14 06:22:05 I may have missed it Sep 14 06:22:18 oil: right, I can add it to rawstatus easily if you prefer Sep 14 06:22:26 i dont think itl be a problem right now Sep 14 06:24:04 PuffTheMagic: it the prerm script removes it from /etc/shells, but not /etc/passwd Sep 14 06:24:09 oil: so any changes you see being needed, or shall I release 0.8.9 to give people time to update before the next preware? Sep 14 06:24:42 can't see any problems right now Sep 14 06:24:48 but i've only just opened the code xD Sep 14 06:25:03 i dont edit etc passwd do it? Sep 14 06:25:24 in the postinst i thought i only edit shells Sep 14 06:27:09 PuffTheMagic: If I install bash through preware, then edit my /etc/passwd to use it, then uninstall through preware, I won't be able to log in as root again Sep 14 06:27:21 even through novaterm Sep 14 06:27:33 JackieRipper: doctor, it hurts when i do that. then don't do that. Sep 14 06:27:36 well yeah if u edit it manually how is that the scripts fault Sep 14 06:28:20 i think it if dont find bash it still tries sh Sep 14 06:28:32 PuffTheMagic: it's not. That being said, it's simple enough to change any instance of /var/bin/bash to /bin/sh when you remove /var/bin/bash Sep 14 06:28:52 PuffTheMagic: not in my experience on other platforms. it may do on this one, dunno. Sep 14 06:28:56 that assuming it not already there Sep 14 06:29:04 JackieRipper: ^^ Sep 14 06:29:51 oil: I'll release 0.8.9 when you have the first working version on your machine Sep 14 06:29:54 If it's already there, it's either broken or you're removing a /var/bin/bash that was already there Sep 14 06:31:12 the shell in /etc/passwd has the full path, if you remove that shell, it will break, and in the Pre's case, the user will be forced to use webosdoctor. I'm not saying it'll be the script's fault, but it's an *easily* preventable user error. Sep 14 06:32:11 JackieRipper: i think if you are smart enough to add bash to shells you should be smart enough to remove it from shells Sep 14 06:32:26 but i guess i coul;d check shells Sep 14 06:32:35 and make sure at least /bin/sh is in there Sep 14 06:32:47 grep -c Sep 14 06:32:50 > 0 Sep 14 06:32:53 PuffTheMagic: we're talking about two different things Sep 14 06:33:03 errr passwd Sep 14 06:33:06 forgot Sep 14 06:33:15 it's not just grep -c Sep 14 06:33:23 its some sed magic Sep 14 06:33:25 big deal Sep 14 06:33:36 not something i want to do to /etc/passwd Sep 14 06:33:43 but i could probable add it Sep 14 06:34:01 if root's shell is non-existent, almost everything that runs as root will not run Sep 14 06:34:01 i was sorta against touching important files Sep 14 06:34:42 rightly so, imho. Sep 14 06:34:55 idk what you want me to say... the ipkg does not touch passwd on install Sep 14 06:35:02 i dont think it should touch it on removal Sep 14 06:35:29 It should check that's its removal won't break the entire system Sep 14 06:35:30 JackieRipper: but i might touch a file on install Sep 14 06:35:36 and require user to manaully delete it Sep 14 06:35:42 before uninstall works Sep 14 06:36:00 and that file could be FIX_YOUR_PASSWD_BEFORE_DELETING Sep 14 06:36:01 :D Sep 14 06:36:09 to not do so is extremely irresponsible Sep 14 06:36:37 its not really my chore to hold users hands, they had enough smarts to change it manually Sep 14 06:36:40 they can put it back Sep 14 06:36:57 they can't if they do the steps out of order Sep 14 06:37:09 JackieRipper: users can already install bash in optware Sep 14 06:37:17 and if they add it to shells same thing happens Sep 14 06:37:22 PuffTheMagic: w/e, I'm done Sep 14 06:37:48 s/shells/passwd Sep 14 06:38:41 JackieRipper: this is plain old, you shouldnt be messing around as root if you dont know what your are doing Sep 14 06:38:52 same reason why ubuntu dont give youa root passwd Sep 14 06:38:55 It extremely poor/lazy development to not even check that what you're doing will break the entire system, especially when the fix is *one line*. It's bad programming. Period. Sep 14 06:38:57 and makes you use sudo Sep 14 06:39:08 JackieRipper: what im doing dont break the system Sep 14 06:39:11 its the user that breaks it Sep 14 06:39:38 exec /var/bin/bash to .ashrc or something Sep 14 06:39:45 dont edit passwd Sep 14 06:45:23 PuffTheMagic: the current post-install script makes it so you will never be able to log in - even after removing bash, because it creates /etc/shells, doesn't add /bin/sh, and leave the file there when it uninstalls. Next, if someone actually uses bash, by changing a user's shell, and forgets to change it back before uninstalling, that account is broken, If that account is root, it's not fixable. I agree that it's user Sep 14 06:46:16 rwhitby: subscription works here Sep 14 06:46:18 in the emu and on my pre Sep 14 06:46:27 just pushed the changes if you want to check it out/try to break it or whatever Sep 14 06:46:28 oil: excellent Sep 14 06:46:34 I installed it through preware, and had I not already had a shell open to modify /etc/shells, I would have had to use the doctor Sep 14 06:47:40 Hey, can one of you guys port Windows CE to this Pre thing? Sep 14 06:47:47 Thank's in advance. Sep 14 06:47:56 lol Sep 14 06:49:16 lmao Sep 14 06:49:32 Let me know when you've started the BSP bringup. Sep 14 06:49:35 Bye Sep 14 06:49:46 oil: do you think it's faster or slower or no change? Sep 14 06:49:53 PuffTheMagic: I know exactly what I'm doing, and installing bash from preware almost made it so I could never log in again... It was luck that I already had a session open. Sep 14 06:49:54 rofl that was interesting Sep 14 06:51:49 oil: works here too Sep 14 06:54:06 But seriously, you guys think something more useful than WebOS will be possible on this thing in the future? Sep 14 06:54:18 Maybe Mono, Qtopia or Android? Sep 14 06:55:09 rwhitby: i didnt notice any change on the pre Sep 14 06:55:33 Package Manager Service 0.8.9 is released to the public feeds. Sep 14 06:55:43 TFGBD: I like webos Sep 14 06:55:59 TFGBD: webos is awesome Sep 14 06:56:35 PuffTheMagic: And just as you shouldn't be messing around as root when you don't know what you're doing, you should be distributing poorly written scripts when you really have no idea how things work or what the ramifications of the commands in those scripts are. And you certainly shouldn't bitch at the guy who points out your error *and* hands you the damn fix. You say, "Thanks," to that guy. Sep 14 06:56:41 Okay then... It still sounds limited Sep 14 06:56:42 and with that, I'm off to bed Sep 14 06:56:48 have a good night, y'all Sep 14 06:56:51 "sounds"? Sep 14 06:56:53 have you used it? Sep 14 06:56:54 see ya Jackie Sep 14 06:57:06 discussions of webos vs other OS's (apart from the detailed technical internals of each) can be had in #webos Sep 14 06:57:08 Nope. Sep 14 06:57:12 well then Sep 14 06:57:15 how could something sound limited unless it is a speaker Sep 14 06:57:20 It looks gay, though Sep 14 06:57:27 don't feed the troll Sep 14 06:57:33 as opposed to windows ce??! Sep 14 06:57:41 Thank you rwhitby Sep 14 06:58:00 What can I say, I have a fondness for Windows CE and the explorer shell. Sep 14 06:58:02 rwhitby: but i've got all this troll food i bought in bulk with nothing to do with it Sep 14 06:58:21 oil: you can feed him all you like in #webos - no real work happening in there at the moment. Sep 14 06:58:27 lol Sep 14 06:58:31 oil: have you got the apple fanboy antidote with you? Sep 14 06:58:50 oil: so, about that flags transition. Sep 14 06:59:14 brb Sep 14 06:59:22 oil: you don't happen to have that in a separate branch to the chunk stuff do you? ;-0 Sep 14 06:59:28 So beautiful! http://www.pmptoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/newman-mini-all-vx1000-pmp.JPG Sep 14 06:59:30 oops, ;-) Sep 14 07:00:07 don't feed the troll Sep 14 07:00:24 lol Sep 14 07:00:44 rwhitby: no, its all in that one spot Sep 14 07:00:59 oil: no probs. guess we need to work out the flags transition then. Sep 14 07:01:05 yeah Sep 14 07:01:10 with jason, and the webosgroup guys Sep 14 07:01:15 yep Sep 14 07:01:24 webosgroup guys can look at preware as an example Sep 14 07:01:28 it seems to work pretty good Sep 14 07:01:38 i think maybe the esiest way right now Sep 14 07:01:45 well Sep 14 07:01:45 n Sep 14 07:01:49 no* Sep 14 07:01:52 that wont be any easier Sep 14 07:01:53 lol Sep 14 07:01:56 so we have ipkgs in the field which do certain restarts, and we can make our ipkgs not do the restarts any time we choose. Sep 14 07:01:59 its going to be a pita nomatter how we cut it Sep 14 07:02:54 scenario (1): old ipkg, new preware. old ipkg does the restart, preware does something weird, we blame the old ipkg :-) Sep 14 07:03:01 and, that device was so ugly Sep 14 07:03:02 lolol Sep 14 07:03:12 oil: stop feeding the troll Sep 14 07:03:15 lol Sep 14 07:03:22 scenario (2): new ipkg, old preware. new ipkg doesn't work until after a reboot. Sep 14 07:03:36 rwhitby: right now, preware will hold up in the action when waiting for the service to respond so it can run the flags Sep 14 07:03:37 scenario (3): new ipkg, new preware: everything is sweet. Sep 14 07:03:54 which requires the most work? Sep 14 07:03:56 that was for 1 Sep 14 07:04:05 oil: so the service should eventually respond, since the upstart script will restart it Sep 14 07:04:15 #2, packages will require a reboot with the old preware Sep 14 07:04:33 idk if the service responds Sep 14 07:04:34 #2 is easy, we just tell people to use the new preware. Sep 14 07:04:36 it didnt in my testing anyways Sep 14 07:04:50 we really need jason to be in on this Sep 14 07:04:51 oil: might need to timeout, do a cancel, and test status. Sep 14 07:04:59 as packagemanager will need a restart on first install Sep 14 07:05:42 oil: oh, here's a thought. we can put conditionals in the postinsts for the transition period Sep 14 07:06:24 we should also be able to tell whether we are running under a new preware, or from quick install, cause quick install won't have the IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT env var set. Sep 14 07:06:38 scenario 4: a separate transitional feed for flags Sep 14 07:07:18 but yeah, fixing the postinsts / prerems is probably the easiest Sep 14 07:07:33 (dont forget those prerems, since they're the real reason for flags along with dependencys) Sep 14 07:07:40 right Sep 14 07:07:51 I think the env var saves us. Sep 14 07:08:00 well thats good Sep 14 07:08:24 and once the scripts are all changed, 086 is probably good to go as it is Sep 14 07:08:29 sans dependencies Sep 14 07:08:37 but being able to remove and update services Sep 14 07:08:49 can we get dependencies in at the same time? Sep 14 07:09:12 ah, I guess we want to get results from the memory stuff. Sep 14 07:09:15 awwwww TFGBD left Sep 14 07:09:26 and Sep 14 07:09:39 i haven't written the multiple package installation stuff yet Sep 14 07:09:54 ive been thinking about the most elegant way to go about it :/ Sep 14 07:10:11 stupid troll, trix are for kids Sep 14 07:10:51 he was real funny Sep 14 07:11:11 All trolls are funny, usually Sep 14 07:11:54 I was shocked to see an absense of Apple fanboys on the app catalog post on Engadget Sep 14 07:12:06 but genuine Pre owners Sep 14 07:12:41 usually any palm post on engadget turns into a flame war Sep 14 07:13:02 same with MS and Apple posts Sep 14 07:13:24 oil: ok, so I'll do the postinst and prerm changes to conditionalise the restarts, and then I'll test that with current WOSQI and new Preware. Sep 14 07:13:26 and when new computers come out someone always says will it run crysis Sep 14 07:13:38 oil: then we can release all that together. Sep 14 07:13:44 yeah Sep 14 07:13:49 086 seems good to go Sep 14 07:13:52 once that stuff is tested Sep 14 07:14:01 it works great with accelservice anyways Sep 14 07:14:05 oooh Sep 14 07:14:08 big news http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/lg-officially-announces-gw620-its-first-android-phone/ Sep 14 07:14:10 and i dont think there is any other outstanding bugs Sep 14 07:14:33 lol Sep 14 07:14:36 my last phone was an LG Sep 14 07:14:46 a dumbphone Sep 14 07:14:59 oil: oh, BTW, did you get the log to pop up on an install error? Sep 14 07:15:06 oh Sep 14 07:15:07 yeah Sep 14 07:15:09 i was going to do that Sep 14 07:15:26 but i was going to say more "there was an error" ok - see log Sep 14 07:15:42 while you're there, can you put the title of each of those sections *below* the stdErr and stdOut text? Sep 14 07:15:46 but i was also going to change how the logs were handled Sep 14 07:15:50 so it could go on the main scene also Sep 14 07:16:06 titles of esctions below stderr and out? Sep 14 07:16:11 yep Sep 14 07:16:16 i dont fallow Sep 14 07:16:23 oil: I mispoke, it turned into a flamewar Sep 14 07:16:28 so Completed is written after the stderr and stdout lines from the completed stage Sep 14 07:16:38 instead of before Sep 14 07:17:00 its more of a "here is whats returned with this stage" Sep 14 07:17:12 the stage is completed Sep 14 07:17:17 and those are the logs that came with it Sep 14 07:17:29 Eguy: http://www.metro-pcs-phones.com/images/LG%20VX6000%20image.gif was my last phone Sep 14 07:17:33 i had it for YEARS Sep 14 07:17:39 waiting for something better Sep 14 07:17:48 oil: yeah, I'm wondering if the other way around won't be more intuitive for users? Sep 14 07:17:58 i dont know Sep 14 07:18:04 are users going to know at all what to do with it? Sep 14 07:18:10 or is it something they're going to tell us Sep 14 07:18:17 http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_X3DT-aRCXRg/RYZr9OtPshI/AAAAAAAAAHA/Dy12B9VKWss/s400/zackphone.jpg Sep 14 07:18:19 that was my last phone. Sep 14 07:18:23 That's painful oil Sep 14 07:18:24 lol Sep 14 07:18:49 it worked, thats all that really mattered Sep 14 07:18:59 oil: the way it is now, the stuff in the completed stage (which comes after the postinst stage) is actually the output from running the postinst. Sep 14 07:19:01 I feel kinda backwards with the pre LOL Sep 14 07:19:28 oil: alternatively, I can change what is sent up and just have an empty completed stage at the end. Sep 14 07:19:41 your call, I'm easy either way. Sep 14 07:19:45 lets determine what the log is for Sep 14 07:19:45 My centro worked better but it looked like **** and the OS is a decade years old Sep 14 07:19:50 to debug the service and preware Sep 14 07:19:55 or to make the user understand it: Sep 14 07:19:58 ?* Sep 14 07:20:06 this way it makes more sense for debugging Sep 14 07:20:12 to me anyways Sep 14 07:20:33 oil: is it because it matches the dbus messages? Sep 14 07:20:45 decade old* I don't know how I overlooked that hmm I will shut up now Sep 14 07:21:25 it does right now Sep 14 07:21:43 and flipping them around would only make the beginning seem weird Sep 14 07:21:49 instead of the end Sep 14 07:22:38 hmm - let's leave it as-is and see what happens. Sep 14 07:23:26 leave the titles as-is and I'll see if I can come up with a better set of messages. Sep 14 07:23:35 hmmmm Sep 14 07:23:57 it also puts in the errorcode/text if there is any Sep 14 07:23:59 under each response Sep 14 07:24:00 "The package Manager Service is not running. Did you remember to install it? If you did, perhaps you should try rebooting your phone" Sep 14 07:24:05 i tried that.. but i still got the same msg Sep 14 07:24:40 tlz: how did you install it, and did you wait until the cell service had come back up? Sep 14 07:25:17 yeah i waited.. i installed it via command prompt originally Sep 14 07:25:30 did you run the postinst? Sep 14 07:25:42 yeah, it was running before :( Sep 14 07:25:44 just not now Sep 14 07:25:57 did you run the postinst when you installed the latest version? Sep 14 07:26:13 hmmm, false alarm.. it finally kicked in Sep 14 07:26:14 sorry! Sep 14 07:26:28 is 0.8.5 the newest version? Sep 14 07:26:38 of preware, yes. Sep 14 07:26:50 of ipkgservice, 0.8.9 is the latest Sep 14 07:27:05 oo i dont have the ipkgservice updated to 8.9 Sep 14 07:27:54 now i have a new question Sep 14 07:28:02 i tried to install an app the other day Sep 14 07:28:05 and it says im out of space Sep 14 07:28:11 does that mean /var is filled up? Sep 14 07:29:39 no tlz Sep 14 07:29:44 you hit the limiter Sep 14 07:29:51 No Pre for .au: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1892149#post1892149 Sep 14 07:29:51 I have the same problem Sep 14 07:31:06 LOL rwhitby is a fictional character Sep 14 07:31:26 eguy, can u fix that? :P Sep 14 07:31:29 so now I need to get a CDMA Pre from the US, and a GSM Pre from .eu when released :-( Sep 14 07:31:56 and big warranty problems if I get an oreo. Sep 14 07:32:09 Indeed Sep 14 07:32:17 don't open the slider Sep 14 07:32:49 tlz: no I can't :P I suspect it will be "removed" when the catalog comes out of beta and into RC1 ;) Sep 14 07:33:27 damn Sep 14 07:33:38 so you gotta choose which apps u really want lol Sep 14 07:33:53 it's in a binary file, so we can't easily patch it either Sep 14 07:34:09 i think some people really just dont take care of their stuff Sep 14 07:34:12 mine has no oreo Sep 14 07:34:26 weak sauce! i want more apps! Sep 14 07:34:27 lol Sep 14 07:34:36 mine has no oreo Sep 14 07:34:39 it moves what feels like a millimeter give when open Sep 14 07:34:48 which is just so it actually slides open and closed Sep 14 07:34:58 but my screen does have a clicky feeling on the left side when closed Sep 14 07:35:08 mine does that also Sep 14 07:35:14 but only if i pinch it Sep 14 07:35:18 so i dont pinch it Sep 14 07:35:28 Mine's a bit more than that Sep 14 07:35:37 but it is not worth getting a new one over Sep 14 07:36:02 So http://www.mobicity.com.au/palm-pre.html seems to be my best shot at a GSM Pre when released. Sep 14 07:36:08 no dead pixels Sep 14 07:36:17 and just a little of lightbleed at the bottom Sep 14 07:36:35 I have 3 burn spots on the top left but you can't see them at all Sep 14 07:36:42 no dead pixels Sep 14 07:36:49 OUCH rwhitby Sep 14 07:36:53 899 Sep 14 07:37:01 you can buy a scooter for that much Sep 14 07:37:02 yeah, ouch for sure Sep 14 07:37:15 Availability: Currently stocked. REALLY??? Sep 14 07:37:19 LOL Sep 14 07:37:19 that's USD$770 Sep 14 07:37:31 Eguy: the PRE-order is currently stocked. Sep 14 07:37:45 Well Sep 14 07:37:55 every pre-order is stocked ;) Sep 14 07:37:57 they just bulk order from hong kong or somewhere when they get them there. Sep 14 07:38:35 It should say available to order instead Sep 14 07:38:52 yeah, no one would be silly enough to actually order off that site until it's released. people have checked them out and they seem legit - they have a history of importing latest phones as they are released. Sep 14 07:39:37 3MP camera huh? Sep 14 07:39:56 i thought the canadian pre was gsm? Sep 14 07:39:57 it snot? Sep 14 07:40:03 Negative Sep 14 07:40:14 * oil knows nothing about cell services Sep 14 07:40:43 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1119842&p=51 has lots more info on .au Pre :-) Sep 14 07:41:05 ahhh whirlpool Sep 14 07:41:33 The australian's home on the interwebnetz Sep 14 07:42:23 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1119842&p=55#r1083 in particular Sep 14 07:43:23 * rwhitby bbl Sep 14 07:43:33 I am going to sleep Sep 14 07:44:42 eguy Sep 14 07:44:50 what Sep 14 07:44:55 hows it goin Sep 14 07:45:04 going well Sep 14 07:45:07 sweet Sep 14 07:45:08 but I am going to sleep Sep 14 07:45:09 how was your weekend Sep 14 07:45:43 good Sep 14 07:45:45 yours? Sep 14 07:46:08 eh Sep 14 07:46:11 i worked all weekend Sep 14 07:46:18 930am to 1130pm today Sep 14 07:46:22 ouch Sep 14 07:46:30 alright see you on the other side Sep 14 07:46:36 that sucked pretty bad, and saturday was a crappy day too Sep 14 09:49:29 rwhitby: those whirlpool threads are depressing. Sep 14 09:49:41 I didn't know they'd gotten rid of Brett Murray too Sep 14 09:49:47 He was my last remaining contact with Palm AU Sep 14 09:50:02 But he was never allowed to say anything substantial. Sep 14 09:50:13 Always referring me back to the US office. Sep 14 09:50:52 Guess we'll be importing European Pres. Maybe you can steal one from the Playbite trade show in London on the 15th Sep 14 09:51:08 If you wanna buy plane tickets, I'll be your wingman ;) Sep 14 11:18:17 Yay, engadget used my tip and thanked me :) Sep 14 11:31:07 lol Sep 14 11:31:14 Decimation: kesne wants words with you :P Sep 14 12:01:34 good evening, does anyone know how to start a newly installed service without rebooting? thanks,greg Sep 14 12:16:22 i like how engadget used his screenshots for the article. Sep 14 15:07:12 Zuchmir2: ping Sep 14 15:07:33 pong Sep 14 15:53:18 hello. Sep 14 15:56:32 im able to connect to ssh by localip but not external ip, anyone knows why? Sep 14 16:17:33 I was just thinking about preware and webos quick install and patches and the scripts or steps performed in the next steps section of accessing linux.... is it possible to add those to either or both? Sep 14 16:18:44 Also wondering how are the patches added to preware? Is that something I would be able to help with getting the patches added to it? Sep 14 16:49:13 lastseen destinal Sep 14 16:49:35 I don't think he exists Sep 14 16:52:04 left my machine at home running pidgin without changing nick or signing off :( Sep 14 16:53:16 doh Sep 14 16:53:28 ssh :) Sep 14 16:53:55 you run pidgin for irc ? =\ Sep 14 16:54:29 sure. I already use it for all kinds of other IM protocols so one-stop shopping Sep 14 16:54:42 pidgin works pretty well for IRC really Sep 14 16:56:13 killall pidgin /muahaha Sep 14 16:59:14 i will have to check it out Sep 14 17:01:30 i crashed pidgin, lol wtf Sep 14 17:01:57 A2NY: there you go breaking things again :P Sep 14 17:02:13 Yep. I also use Pidgin for everything...irc, ICQ, etc etc etc... even XMPP Sep 14 17:02:14 "/join webos-internals" = crash Sep 14 17:04:05 oh well Sep 14 17:16:34 Zuchmir3: yo Sep 14 17:16:48 destinal_: ping Sep 14 17:23:49 PuffTheMagic: pong Sep 14 17:24:06 Zuchmir2: subscriptions are working again sorta Sep 14 17:24:28 cool, what do you mean "sorta" Sep 14 17:24:30 but i still need the SUBSCRIPTIONS_ST thing Sep 14 17:24:53 LSSubscriptionAcquire still needs the // Sep 14 17:25:10 that's what i thought Sep 14 17:25:21 that's where -14 comes Sep 14 17:25:25 even if it dont use LSSubscription reply Sep 14 17:25:31 Zuchmir2: yeah i get where you were going now Sep 14 17:25:39 Zuchmir2: but is there anyway we can make that macro more generic Sep 14 17:25:49 so we dont need one for each monitor Sep 14 17:26:26 yeah, add a "folder" prefix, and "function" prefix Sep 14 17:28:04 to the struct? Sep 14 17:28:13 swich to PM now that you are backoneline Sep 14 17:30:07 http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/thanks-for-coming-out-to-the-engadget-show/ Sep 14 17:59:01 So... writing services in Java is still a homebrew-only thing, right? Sep 14 18:01:32 yes Sep 14 18:09:09 Crud. Hate to write a service just to do a binary upload in HTTP Sep 14 18:09:48 Though, I suppose that might be a useful service Sep 14 18:12:17 you can't put binary data using html ? Sep 14 18:12:31 Well, not using XMLHttpRequest anyway Sep 14 18:12:37 ah Sep 14 18:12:40 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=7002#p7002 Sep 14 18:13:07 I haven't tried using an actual form with a file input field in an app, but that seems limited. Sep 14 18:13:30 If input="file" even works in an app Sep 14 18:14:39 I wonder if a generic HTTP file upload service would be too broad and troublesome, rather than specifically a Flickr upload service Sep 14 18:20:06 ajax.Post? Sep 14 18:20:08 or similar? Sep 14 18:20:27 No, ajax.post doesn't work Sep 14 18:20:52 This would be a Java service that doesn't corrupt binary data on the way out the door Sep 14 18:27:06 geist: some OE developers have asked about the recipes being released, any possibility of that or is it waiting on a repo or other infrastructure first? Sep 14 20:58:45 freakut: lol, why would that be? Sep 14 21:01:31 rwhitby, anyone: i cant find the ipkg service on the git, any assistance to give? Sep 14 21:02:27 nvm Sep 14 21:11:08 lol Sep 14 21:32:56 Decimation_ : he was cranky that Engadget didn't credit Precentral with the scoop ;) Sep 14 21:33:30 ouch, didnt notice Sep 14 21:33:40 in the tip, i said credit precentral Sep 14 21:33:45 but at the end i did the old Sep 14 21:33:49 - Mitchell R. Sep 14 21:33:57 lol Sep 14 21:34:05 i'd watch your ass :P Sep 14 21:34:09 :P Sep 14 21:37:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTjNInBA7JQ Sep 14 21:37:21 smart guy right there, no sarcasm at all in my comment! Sep 14 22:13:14 don't we all just *love* donate-ware Sep 14 22:13:37 yes, that Sep 14 23:08:06 morning Sep 14 23:08:53 rwhitby: morning. so, when you getting your pre? Sep 14 23:09:12 gkatsev: bpadalino is looking at one today for me I believe. Sep 14 23:09:17 cool Sep 14 23:10:05 as for a GSM Pre in .au, things are looking bleak on that front: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1892149#post1892149 Sep 14 23:10:32 So I'll have to import a GSM Pre from somewhere else in the world as well :-( Sep 14 23:12:24 but looking good for gsm Pre in general? Sep 14 23:12:25 PuffTheMagic: pong Sep 14 23:22:29 gsm pre? Sep 14 23:22:35 * mickeyl suddenly stops on the way to bed Sep 14 23:22:38 ;) Sep 14 23:23:35 rwhitby: theres a pre for sale about a block away for 200 dollars Sep 14 23:24:02 mickeyl: no word yet, but I'm getting a CDMA Pre sent to me. Sep 14 23:24:14 mickeyl: in the short term, it seems that the graphical process can be disabled with the gsm stack active Sep 14 23:24:18 Decimation_: good or bad esn Sep 14 23:24:21 good Sep 14 23:24:22 rwhitby: ok, fair enough. good for some first bits of RE Sep 14 23:24:38 mickeyl: http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=1892149#post1892149 :-( Sep 14 23:24:43 tmzt: oh, good. something like runlevel 3? Sep 14 23:24:48 rwhitby: said clean esn. Sep 14 23:25:01 rwhitby: that kind of sucks, but you have enough friends around the world that can arrange a shipment Sep 14 23:25:02 mickeyl: somewhat, the phone stuff is a java process Sep 14 23:25:18 rwhitby: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mob/1372954414.html Sep 14 23:25:20 they use upstart though, not runlevels Sep 14 23:25:29 mickeyl: yeah, the only concern is the hw build quality - hopefully that is all fixed before the GSM Pre. Sep 14 23:25:42 (upstart) yeah. what i wanted to see in OE since years... Sep 14 23:25:52 but alas no one interested and i can't do everything Sep 14 23:25:59 * mickeyl mumbles Sep 14 23:26:01 ;) Sep 14 23:26:22 rwhitby: is that an issue on the cdma pre? Sep 14 23:26:28 Decimation_: bpadalino is looking at one that includes a touchstone too Sep 14 23:26:30 serious, i mean? Sep 14 23:26:42 mickeyl: early on it was - I think it's all fixed now. Sep 14 23:27:20 mickeyl: I'm a stickler for dead pixels though. Sep 14 23:27:32 rwhitby: hehe Sep 14 23:27:36 dead pixels suck Sep 14 23:27:41 hot ones as well Sep 14 23:27:55 never seen one in a PDA or phone though Sep 14 23:27:59 must have been lucky Sep 14 23:28:13 mickeyl: lots of reports of them early on for Pre. dunno about now. Sep 14 23:28:30 rwhitby: how much? Sep 14 23:28:41 hmm, sounds like quality problems on the factory line Sep 14 23:32:09 does anyone know whether palm / sprint is swapping out for dead pixels, and do I risk ending up with worse? Sep 14 23:32:44 mickeyl: my theory is there were not enough perfect phones in the first few batches, so they let nearly-good ones through, knowing that Sprint customers could just keep swapping them at no cost until they got a good one. Sep 14 23:33:06 rwhitby: yes, manufacturers do that some times... Sep 14 23:33:10 destinal1: they swap for pixels. Sep 14 23:33:41 (first 30 days though, after that 100 deductable of course with insurance) Sep 14 23:34:18 1 year warranty from Palm also Sep 14 23:34:35 what's Palm's pixel policy? Sep 14 23:34:56 I think it should cover that it wouldn't cover damager though. Sep 14 23:35:05 Templarian: since they can develop during the first year they either will swap for free on dead pixels or they won't Sep 14 23:35:13 I'm not sure about that, but Sprint replaced my SO's Pre with a failed power button at the 70 day mark Sep 14 23:35:39 it shouldn't be a 30 days thing Sep 14 23:35:40 With chunks missing from the plastic due to her... clumsyness Sep 14 23:40:11 quiet in here Sep 14 23:40:14 g'night Sep 14 23:41:40 zsoc: that's because we just all quit talking right when you joined. Sep 14 23:45:00 Templarian, wouldn't be the first time :> Sep 14 23:52:05 * rwhitby does the equivalent of a webos doctor on the emulator Sep 14 23:53:46 Decimation_: http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mob/1372954414.html Sep 14 23:53:48 detroit metro craigslist > oakland co > for sale / wanted > cell phones Sep 14 23:53:50 This posting has been deleted by its author. Sep 14 23:53:52 (The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.) Sep 14 23:54:20 works fine for me Sep 14 23:54:35 OK then Sep 14 23:55:07 http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/14/palm-pixi-processor-chipset-specs-get-detailed-at-last/ Sep 14 23:56:31 bclancy: wb Sep 14 23:57:12 rwhitby: ?? Sep 14 23:57:15 Robi_: welcome to the internet... your lag time is a bit off though. Sep 14 23:57:22 bclancy: welcome back Sep 14 23:57:26 o Sep 14 23:58:43 Templarian: tell that to the twitter news bot ;] Sep 15 00:00:30 rwhitby: I just read your post/responce on precentral mentioning the upcoming Preware 0.9. I might have some time to test or check some work if you need that. Sep 15 00:10:04 egaudet: ping Sep 15 00:10:12 * zsoc 's package manager service just crashed Sep 15 00:10:37 and my java services rebooted Sep 15 00:10:42 zsoc: oom error? Sep 15 00:11:14 rwhitby, no error, preware didn't start, went to restart it, told me package manager wasn't loaded, and my cellular radio restarted Sep 15 00:11:30 zsoc: check /var/log/messages for an OOM error Sep 15 00:11:50 if there is one there at the right time, we know the reason, and the Preware latest git HEAD should fix it. Sep 15 00:12:10 rwhitby, ah ok, i'll check, also worked after a 3rd restart Sep 15 00:12:29 Anyone that can give me guidance on getting all of the patches from the wiki/ quilt repository to the feed for preware? Unless of course this is already preped to be eminantly added Sep 15 00:13:30 StoneRyno: see the thread on PreCentral about an open standard patch management process. then contribute there. Sep 15 00:13:50 yeah it was an OOM error Sep 15 00:14:23 zsoc: I should have a new preware in the alpha testing feed soon. just have to do some testing here first. Sep 15 00:14:45 rwhitby: did u figure out the mem prob? Sep 15 00:15:14 jho_: yep, we believe we have. Sep 15 00:15:19 what was it? Sep 15 00:15:38 rod rod, he's our man, if he can't do it... er.. well prolly no one else would bother trying. Sep 15 00:16:16 ok will check out the thread....... Sep 15 00:16:27 Hey Sep 15 00:17:07 jho_: message too big on dbus Sep 15 00:17:15 jho_: so we've split it into 4K chunks. Sep 15 00:18:06 well, actually dbus may well be able to handle it, but the java vm's heap didn't like 375KB of string allocations in JSONObject.toString() Sep 15 00:18:07 so rwhitby: what could a newbie such as myself expect to see from the great once he gets a pre ? :) Sep 15 00:19:09 Decimation_: well, I expect development will slow for some period, while I try out all the homebrew available in Preware ... Sep 15 00:19:16 rwhitby: ah cool. how did you find that out? =) Sep 15 00:19:27 rwhitby, ah so _that's_ what was between lines 26 and 27, mystery solved. Sep 15 00:19:31 jho_: OOM dumps from good beta testing reports. Sep 15 00:20:04 zsoc: brilliant picture btw. I was out for dinner but laughed when I saw it. Sep 15 00:20:34 jho_, glad :) i always wanted to be 'that guy' that made something so amusing you just had to shake his hand. Unfortunately, I can apparently, only do it once, and when I'm not trying. Oh well. Sep 15 00:21:04 keep trying Sep 15 00:21:08 jho_, and yes, of course you were out to dinner, i think that was the point actually ;) Sep 15 00:24:28 rwhitby: I know Jason (webos quick install) has added the ability to add some patches using it but I don't know what exactly he has done to do it. I sent him a PM asking about it cause I want to help out in getting patches availble by a feed or as part of bothpreware and quick install Sep 15 00:25:00 heh. I dont mess too much with the gf =) she's short but can be a fireball Sep 15 00:25:03 StoneRyno: he currently hand-codes line-by-line modifications, but it working on supporting the standard patch format. Sep 15 00:26:15 StoneRyno: the way to help out at the moment is to turn wiki manual modifications into patches in the modifications git repo. Sep 15 00:27:26 jho_, not sure what that means but it sounds like fun Sep 15 00:27:58 short but angry =) Sep 15 00:28:03 cool beans will check that out I wasn't quite sure at 1st how that worked but I think I may understand it enough to turn them into patches. I just got to figure out which ones don't have patches and which ones do Sep 15 00:28:41 * zsoc reads man patch.. again Sep 15 00:29:10 I assume all of the existing patches in the repository are good to go? Sep 15 00:29:25 not necessarily Sep 15 00:30:21 http://www.cardpartner.com/app/the-linux-foundation <-- this is cool Sep 15 00:35:07 hm I'm not sure I understand the steps 100% in the apply patches page for creating a patch Sep 15 00:38:39 btw has anyone looked at getting IRC onthe pre? Sep 15 00:39:11 rwhitby, pong Sep 15 00:42:08 jho_: there's a terminal now Sep 15 00:42:18 you can use that with irssi, ircII, etc. Sep 15 00:42:36 cool Sep 15 00:49:17 egaudet: I'd like to make a change to the postinst and prerm of 0.1.7 so that it works with the new restart flags - do you have any outstanding changes that I will collide with if I check that in now Sep 15 00:56:02 nope should be fine Sep 15 00:56:54 * egaudet back to watching patriots football Sep 15 00:59:22 alpha testing feed now has virtual keyboard 0.1.8, preware 0.8.6, accelservice 0.3.0, and ipkgservice 0.9.0, all ready for some serious alpha testing. Sep 15 00:59:48 zsoc, jho_: try those to see if the mem probs go away Sep 15 01:10:31 how do you get to the alpha feed? Sep 15 01:10:49 jho_: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/ Sep 15 01:11:13 okay. I'll look at it if I have a chance. I'm busy setting up hdtv right now =) Sep 15 01:11:53 jho_, don't mess up. setting up home theatre is half the experience ;) Sep 15 01:12:03 nah. I Sep 15 01:12:07 'm a luddite Sep 15 01:12:22 my gf just got a samsung Sep 15 01:12:31 I watch tv on a 19in crt Sep 15 01:12:51 rwhitby, can ipkg service be installed through preware yet? or too early to work on it? Sep 15 01:12:56 jho_, ha, nice. which samsung? Sep 15 01:13:07 ln40b630 Sep 15 01:13:14 zsoc: as of preware 0.8.6 it can Sep 15 01:13:18 ah Sep 15 01:13:23 the 650 looked interesting Sep 15 01:13:24 rwhitby, very cool, checking it out Sep 15 01:13:30 but you need wosqi to get 0.8.6 on Sep 15 01:13:37 actually, no. Sep 15 01:13:38 but I figured I will just get a mac mini to attach to it eventually Sep 15 01:13:52 if you have ipkgervice 0.9.0 already installed, you can upgrade Preware with Preware. Sep 15 01:14:01 i like the touch of color series, i know that's really superficial but i'm into it. Sep 15 01:14:16 rwhitby, couldn't you upgrade preware with preware anyway? Sep 15 01:14:18 rwhitby I usually just do ipkg -o /var update|upgrade Sep 15 01:14:35 jho_: just be careful to run the prerm's and postinst's. Sep 15 01:14:45 jho_, protip, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE turn off judder reduction on that tv, or bluerays will look like home movies. it's hidden a bit in the menu. Sep 15 01:14:54 I dont see a command for prerm Sep 15 01:15:04 I do run the sh *postinst* script Sep 15 01:15:05 tri comb? Sep 15 01:15:17 jho_: prerm is right next to postinst Sep 15 01:15:21 zsoc: turned off right away. Sep 15 01:15:31 rwhitby: not on the wiki =) Sep 15 01:15:43 jho_: you can fix that ... Sep 15 01:15:49 zsoc: the judder crap makes my eyes hurt =) Sep 15 01:16:05 jho_, lol, it is really _cool_ tho, just shouldn't be on by default. Sep 15 01:16:12 rwhitby: yeah but I'm on a craptastic laptop right now Sep 15 01:16:15 and screw blur reduction, i want blur ENHANCEMENT. Sep 15 01:16:32 zsoc: well I'll leave it on for sports Sep 15 01:16:42 * rwhitby bbl - ping me here if there are any alpha testing problems. Sep 15 01:17:00 I just wish there was an easy switch to turn it on/off based on the same input Sep 15 01:17:25 would be nice Sep 15 01:19:15 zomg i broke my phone Sep 15 01:19:47 nice one Sep 15 01:20:01 * zsoc wonders if the ipk's someone include prerm/postinsts.... and is embarrassed for not knowing Sep 15 01:20:10 s/someone/somehow Sep 15 01:21:38 which ipks? Sep 15 01:22:37 oil, most of them? You know, your ones. preware and ipk service.. Sep 15 01:23:24 rwhitby: you still around? Sep 15 01:23:32 yep Sep 15 01:23:33 jho_, he is now that you pinged him :P Sep 15 01:23:33 ipkgservice does Sep 15 01:23:36 but preware doesnt Sep 15 01:23:51 do you execute the prerm before or after the postinst? Sep 15 01:24:03 I'll update the wiki if u tell me the sequence Sep 15 01:24:15 jho_: prerm before ipkg -o /var remove, postinst after ipkg -o /var install Sep 15 01:24:37 * zsoc wonders what/where the prerm is Sep 15 01:24:44 i think we just went over this, heh. Sep 15 01:25:11 rwhitby: well the instructions say ipkg -o /var upgrade Sep 15 01:25:30 so it could be update, prerm, upgrade, postinst? Sep 15 01:25:44 jho_: upgrade is not going to be safe for patches Sep 15 01:25:47 hah, palm cast people apologized to halo 3 for me, im happy. Sep 15 01:26:01 * oil used to play A LOT of halo Sep 15 01:26:01 Decimation_, oh god what did you do? Sep 15 01:26:17 ah, missed the palmcast doing alpha releases :-( Sep 15 01:26:22 zsoc: they were hatin on halo 3, i just kindly asked for an apology :) Sep 15 01:26:33 kesne and jason are on it next week. Sep 15 01:26:40 rwhitby: hmm. Sep 15 01:26:43 * oil misses next week Sep 15 01:26:44 Decimation_, nice. Sep 15 01:26:45 xD Sep 15 01:26:49 xD Sep 15 01:26:54 xD Sep 15 01:27:02 i just wont hit play next to kesne's feed Sep 15 01:27:02 is it necessary to remove? what I've been doing is just update/upgrade/postinst and it seems to be working Sep 15 01:27:10 no patches installed Sep 15 01:27:19 Hah Sep 15 01:27:25 * zsoc still wonders what/where the prerm script is Sep 15 01:27:32 lol Sep 15 01:27:39 no ill watch Sep 15 01:27:41 I'm 15 too Sep 15 01:27:42 it will just give me more ammo Sep 15 01:27:42 jho_: it'll work for most things, but not patches, since the unpatch won't happen Sep 15 01:28:02 zsoc: right next to the postinst script Sep 15 01:28:06 so the only required change that palm gave me for dot game Sep 15 01:28:12 is to remove something i forgot to remove Sep 15 01:28:13 lol Sep 15 01:28:20 rwhitby, but the postinst script is run automagically by ipkg, isn't it? Sep 15 01:28:33 zsoc: not in offline mode Sep 15 01:28:44 but i'm not in offline mode.. Sep 15 01:28:54 zsoc: -o /var means offline mod Sep 15 01:28:57 e Sep 15 01:29:03 * zsoc facepalms Sep 15 01:29:14 * zsoc knew that, _really_ Sep 15 01:29:34 offline? Sep 15 01:29:38 I've never been able to get preware to update via preware... Sep 15 01:29:44 oh right Sep 15 01:29:45 so I just do it commandline style Sep 15 01:29:45 zsoc: it even prints out that it is not running the script Sep 15 01:29:47 the root of the fs Sep 15 01:30:12 tmzt: yeah, sorry. offline root mode is the correct term Sep 15 01:30:24 rwhitby: any reason why it's not executed automatically? Sep 15 01:30:36 yeah, I was trying to figure out why a flag had a parameter Sep 15 01:30:40 it -o meant offline Sep 15 01:31:05 jho_: that's the correct functionality for ipkg Sep 15 01:31:24 jho_: it's just that palm is using it in a slightly different way. Sep 15 01:33:11 ipkg supports alternate roots like on zaurus right? Sep 15 01:33:24 yes, that's the intended usage of -o Sep 15 01:33:30 I have made a preliminary pass over the patches ages and noted ones I'm pretty sure are missing from the git repo with ++ in from of the names Sep 15 01:34:43 There are a few patches in the repo I'm not sure what they do as I can't identify them by name when comparing the list from putty to the list on the patches page Sep 15 01:35:21 Will look into them later on to see if i can identify them from the patch file Sep 15 01:35:44 * zsoc feels silly now that he sees what the pre/postinst's do Sep 15 01:35:50 but the notation gives a good start for people to volunteer to make the patches Sep 15 01:35:52 that was my first palm cast Sep 15 01:35:57 overall good expierence. Sep 15 01:36:27 Decimation_, honestly i can't stand them. Sep 15 01:36:28 now for trig homework. Sep 15 01:36:35 I'll be hitting the sack soon so I'll try and fit in some time to work on more tomorrow Sep 15 01:37:32 zsoc: i like em. Sep 15 01:38:00 rwhitby, don't know if this is important enough, everything seems to work.. er.. preware closed itself when i updated an app, but the update worked. also launch button is nice Sep 15 01:38:21 zsoc: which app? Sep 15 01:38:43 rwhitby, the one that's updated everyday, ha, wordwhirl Sep 15 01:38:58 rwhitby: puffs services need fixin Sep 15 01:39:19 okays guys, trig homework time, will be on later...cya. Sep 15 01:39:22 oil: yep Sep 15 01:39:27 could be :) like i said, it worked at least lol, not sure how to recreate that environment, can i roll back an update? Sep 15 01:39:32 Decimation_, peace Sep 15 01:40:39 oil: I've got a situation here where I have 0.1.3 of virtual keyboard installed, and have the testing feed loaded, so 0.1.3 is in webosinternals feed and 0.1.8 is in testing feed, and the Installed Packages section is showing 0.1.8. Sep 15 01:40:46 I know I've asked this before, where's the changelog for the keyboard? Sep 15 01:40:47 oil: ipkg -o /var list_installed shows 0.1.3 Sep 15 01:41:12 zsoc: in the description Sep 15 01:41:29 is freakout here? Sep 15 01:41:43 oil: status file also has 0.1.3 Sep 15 01:42:18 huh Sep 15 01:42:43 feel like debugging it? Sep 15 01:43:12 I dunno how to debug javascript ... but I have time to learn. Sep 15 01:43:47 ill push a version of package.js that has debugging in it Sep 15 01:44:00 ok Sep 15 01:44:02 before i go, rwhitby: i heard talk about services being able to be updated and stuff and preware soon Sep 15 01:44:05 when do you expect that Sep 15 01:44:12 now Sep 15 01:44:15 :| Sep 15 01:44:48 Decimation_: alpha testing feed has them now Sep 15 01:44:59 yeah i think it's actually working Sep 15 01:45:23 rwhitby, oooo, just got a wonderful "no space left on advice" when installing 0.1.8 Sep 15 01:46:44 does that tell anyone anything? heh Sep 15 01:47:21 service 9.0 and preware 8.6? Sep 15 01:47:38 yep Sep 15 01:47:55 * chrisa yawns Sep 15 01:48:11 chrisa, am i boring you? Sep 15 01:48:53 I'll say just just to incite conflict Sep 15 01:48:57 'yes' Sep 15 01:49:03 lol Sep 15 01:49:08 chrisa, no conflict, i'm pretty darn boring Sep 15 01:49:14 The fact that there are two 'just's may be a clue though Sep 15 01:49:18 Anybody going to watch next weeks Palm Cast Sep 15 01:49:20 ? Sep 15 01:49:29 kesne, definitely not now xD Sep 15 01:49:36 xD Sep 15 01:49:41 xD Sep 15 01:49:47 Hey, no offence taken here Sep 15 01:49:56 hmm my webserver is down? Sep 15 01:49:57 just kiddin' bro, i'll be there, i'm no square Sep 15 01:50:13 chrisa, whoops Sep 15 01:50:14 Who would want to go see some 15 year old kid talk about palm pre dev Sep 15 01:50:29 kesne, er, normally, no one, but you have an app in the official catalog, so everyone ;) Sep 15 01:50:41 I think I've lost a lot of childlike wonder when it comes to maintaining my server after a decade Sep 15 01:50:49 Now rather than investigating I just grumble and restart apache Sep 15 01:51:07 zsoc: Yes, but an app with an AI that sucks Sep 15 01:51:10 Wait, you mean there's another way to do it? Sep 15 01:51:35 Best feature suggestion for checkers so far: Nipple Checkers Sep 15 01:51:41 kesne, who cares? it's an app in a catalog that is very unipressively crawling along beta atm Sep 15 01:52:37 I'm trying to port some C code (float and integer math) to javascript Sep 15 01:52:43 and javascript isn't returning the values I'd expect Sep 15 01:53:10 anyone have experiences w/ javascript ints and floats? Sep 15 01:53:19 aren't they all floats ? Sep 15 01:53:43 I'm no javascript expert Sep 15 01:53:47 rwhitby: git has logging Sep 15 01:53:57 thx Sep 15 01:54:32 trying to adapt, float z = -73.4738; int x=(int)z; z = (z-x)*100.0; Sep 15 01:54:40 so in javascript I did Sep 15 01:54:54 oil: don't see it on the server yet Sep 15 01:55:05 x=parseInt(z); z = (z-x)*100.0 Sep 15 01:55:16 but I get totally different options Sep 15 01:55:19 I mean values Sep 15 01:55:55 actually change that, the above float z should be positive Sep 15 01:56:00 I should get 47.38 Sep 15 01:56:11 but in javacript, getting 47.379999...9971 Sep 15 01:56:26 precision, precision Sep 15 01:56:35 oil: gitweb shows no changes since 0.8.6 - did you push? Sep 15 01:56:36 right Sep 15 01:56:36 rwhitby: yeah, it helps if i commit before i push Sep 15 01:56:37 xD Sep 15 01:56:44 bpadalino, but in C in works fine w/ plain floats Sep 15 01:56:49 oil: you spammer Sep 15 01:56:50 javascript is doing something funky Sep 15 01:56:54 :P Sep 15 01:57:01 any idea? Sep 15 01:57:40 spammer? Sep 15 01:57:55 i don't use js .. sorry .. but google might have some good insights Sep 15 01:58:30 spotter: Math.round Sep 15 01:58:57 oil: how do I see the logging? Sep 15 01:59:06 its in messages Sep 15 01:59:10 Use toFixed(2) Sep 15 01:59:16 http://www.mredkj.com/javascript/nfbasic2.html Sep 15 01:59:23 that seems to be some basic stuff Sep 15 01:59:39 wow, i never knew toFixed existed Sep 15 01:59:41 toFixed isn't write though Sep 15 01:59:42 thanks chrisa Sep 15 01:59:48 if it's 47.389 it truncate Sep 15 02:00:02 toFixed seems to be the thing to d Sep 15 02:00:04 I don't know JS at all Sep 15 02:00:06 wondering why javascript float behavior isn't same as C Sep 15 02:00:08 lol Sep 15 02:00:09 That was google #2 Sep 15 02:00:12 chrisa, ppfftt - yeah right! Sep 15 02:00:26 i heard chrisa is a js ninja Sep 15 02:01:15 kesne is a ninja Sep 15 02:01:26 Eguy: why do you say that? Sep 15 02:01:35 cause that checkers ai is so awesome Sep 15 02:01:38 I just have a .... *dead* Sep 15 02:01:39 xD Sep 15 02:01:49 lol Sep 15 02:02:04 Everytime I hear "shadow registers" I imagine an arm shadow government ruling the processes from behind the scenes Sep 15 02:02:44 EguyL I'm very connected, so I hear news, like 1.2 being next week Sep 15 02:03:15 1.2 is a lie Sep 15 02:03:28 That's funny, when I hear "shadow registers" I think of the hacked gstreamer register that Palm patched together to make their hacked drivers work and/or stop me from registering perfectly fine well-built plugins :P Sep 15 02:03:32 1.2 isnt Sep 15 02:03:38 Like the female orgasm Sep 15 02:03:45 Eguy: xD Sep 15 02:03:48 Eguy, nice. Sep 15 02:03:55 Did I tell you about the checkers feature suggestion? Sep 15 02:03:58 ;) Sep 15 02:04:14 I know nothing of what we did with gstreamer, but I'm pretty sure there are dragons there too Sep 15 02:04:16 the dotgame feedback i got is simple Sep 15 02:04:28 4 suggested Sep 15 02:04:28 Eguy, technically, i think pointing that comment towards kesne is "endangering the welfare of a child" Sep 15 02:04:29 2 required Sep 15 02:04:42 and the two required are just things i forgot Sep 15 02:04:51 no wonder my pre feels so hot in my pocket .. too many fire breathers in there Sep 15 02:04:53 like to remove about Sep 15 02:04:58 and add help Sep 15 02:04:59 chrisa, many dragons, and i've managed to have them all eat individual iterations of me at the same time, they are hot, dirty, and magical Sep 15 02:05:02 to the game menu Sep 15 02:05:02 lol Sep 15 02:05:04 oil: Checkers had 2 required, 2 suggested :P Sep 15 02:05:17 lol Sep 15 02:05:22 and im only going to fallow one of their suggestions Sep 15 02:05:39 two of them will take a long time Sep 15 02:05:46 and the other is stupid Sep 15 02:05:47 AHH Sep 15 02:05:57 Keen Studios website viewship is DOWN!? Sep 15 02:06:05 after all that spamming? Sep 15 02:06:07 im shocked Sep 15 02:06:10 lol! Sep 15 02:06:12 What spamming? Sep 15 02:06:12 nice oil Sep 15 02:06:21 The chatroll Sep 15 02:06:24 you borked it Sep 15 02:06:39 I just said everyone should enter the contest :/ Sep 15 02:06:46 about 20 times Sep 15 02:06:47 Ah Sep 15 02:06:49 10 times Sep 15 02:06:51 Twice Sep 15 02:06:51 lol Sep 15 02:06:55 I counted Sep 15 02:06:57 over 9000 times Sep 15 02:07:03 lol Sep 15 02:07:04 We are just giving you a hard time buddy Sep 15 02:07:10 not really.... Sep 15 02:07:11 And I'm looking at YESTERDAYS dates, silly me Sep 15 02:07:21 eguy is going to jail for giving kesne a hard time Sep 15 02:07:23 hes only 15 dude Sep 15 02:07:32 And zsoc: I don't mind :P Sep 15 02:07:37 lol Sep 15 02:07:38 oil: I could care less Sep 15 02:07:39 LOL Sep 15 02:07:48 you could? Sep 15 02:07:50 What is with all these kids developming Sep 15 02:07:52 I could Sep 15 02:07:54 developing Sep 15 02:07:58 No mispellings there Sep 15 02:08:02 I really could Sep 15 02:08:07 And Kids developing, no idea Sep 15 02:08:09 * Eguy smashes keyboard Sep 15 02:08:10 kesne, again, a joke, just poking at one :) i'm done now lol. Sep 15 02:08:20 Everyone in Keen Studios is under 18 Sep 15 02:08:29 woah there Sep 15 02:08:41 can anyone help me get connected to the pre with winscp Sep 15 02:08:52 As long as there is consent Sep 15 02:08:54 Why does everyone "joke" with me? Sep 15 02:08:56 it keeps timing out saying network error Sep 15 02:09:09 kesne, because we're jealous of how awesome you are Sep 15 02:09:16 quite simply Sep 15 02:09:17 srsly Sep 15 02:09:21 duh Sep 15 02:09:24 xD Sep 15 02:09:27 Lololol Sep 15 02:09:27 rwhitby/others: Noticed that "Preware 0.8.6 and Package Manager Service 0.9.0 are in alpha testing now." Can I get them here (or is it somewhere else)? http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/ Sep 15 02:09:29 Assuming the URL is correct, Do I still need to use the WebOSQuickInstall.jar to install them? (thx) Sep 15 02:09:42 bclancy: thats where they area Sep 15 02:09:46 are* Sep 15 02:09:53 yeah, use webosquickinstall Sep 15 02:09:58 oil, personally, that's where i like to area Sep 15 02:10:02 thx, will install them now Sep 15 02:10:20 That's What's Up. Sep 15 02:10:29 ok, then another quesiton Sep 15 02:10:50 any easy way in javascript to determine how places after a decimal point in javascript? Sep 15 02:11:00 you are only allowed one per day Sep 15 02:12:17 Wow, I was thinking about this and I think that selfawaregames is really my main competition Sep 15 02:12:31 well there is dot game but that sucks Sep 15 02:12:34 selfawaregames? Sep 15 02:12:40 dotgame soonish Sep 15 02:12:42 blocked after that Sep 15 02:12:43 srsly Sep 15 02:12:56 http://www.selfawaregames.com/ Sep 15 02:12:58 blocked isn't even worth mentioning Sep 15 02:13:09 And oil, I'm not counting those games as "competition" Sep 15 02:13:30 Coming Soon......something quite different. ooooo Sep 15 02:13:30 checkers Sep 15 02:13:32 * oil is looking to destroy checkers Sep 15 02:13:33 blocked is awesome Sep 15 02:13:46 xD Sep 15 02:13:58 zsoc: please, no need to feel sorry for oil Sep 15 02:14:02 Blocked is like checkers, same idea Sep 15 02:14:07 pretty soon ill be postin "hey guys, 24000!!!@!" Sep 15 02:14:15 xD Sep 15 02:14:24 yes blocked is like checkers without cheating AI Sep 15 02:14:28 Actually it's 36,000 oil Sep 15 02:14:35 Eguy: xD Sep 15 02:14:38 blocked and checkers are nothing alike Sep 15 02:14:43 i wrote blocked from scratch Sep 15 02:14:45 xD Sep 15 02:14:47 oil: they are IDENTICAL Sep 15 02:14:47 and it sucks Sep 15 02:15:16 oil: my dog could of wrote a better blocked Sep 15 02:15:20 Checkers has cooler graphics Sep 15 02:15:21 lol Sep 15 02:15:30 thats fine with me Sep 15 02:15:32 and cheating ai.... Sep 15 02:15:34 i didnt make any blocked art Sep 15 02:15:34 Actually, I think the dragging on blocked needs some work Sep 15 02:15:38 wait Sep 15 02:15:40 i did make some of it Sep 15 02:15:43 but, i know im not an artist Sep 15 02:15:46 blue and red? Sep 15 02:15:57 have you checked out 091 of blocked? Sep 15 02:16:03 no Sep 15 02:16:03 i changed the dragging a little Sep 15 02:16:14 seems more better Sep 15 02:16:55 That's What's Up. Sep 15 02:17:01 hmm these speakers aren't half that bad Sep 15 02:17:12 I have a pretty serious question. Has internals stayed away from tethering to appease palm or sprint? I mean, it would be uber easy to make a script that enabled usbnet, and bridged evdo with iptables... Sep 15 02:17:27 Sprint Sep 15 02:17:40 Sprint said no and palm said listen to sprint Sep 15 02:17:50 Sprint said no... where? Here? Sep 15 02:18:00 Not trying to be devil's advocate, just missed that part. Sep 15 02:18:02 I think they sent an angry email Sep 15 02:18:18 Yup Sep 15 02:18:18 Eguy is correct Sep 15 02:18:24 I'm a ninja, you can trust me Sep 15 02:18:36 lol Sep 15 02:18:46 If I added Nipple Checkers to Checkers Pro would you buy it? Sep 15 02:18:50 you can just use mytether Sep 15 02:19:06 pink nipples vs dark nipples? Sep 15 02:19:15 oil: yeah Sep 15 02:19:19 lol Sep 15 02:19:24 Er, sent it to whom? Is there a copy of this somewhere? Sep 15 02:19:59 To whoever started with wiki, I forgot who it was Sep 15 02:20:02 forgive me Sep 15 02:20:08 rwhitby? Sep 15 02:20:12 negative Sep 15 02:20:17 Eguy, was the mytether service ever released? i'm just super uncomfortable not knowing what it does for sure Sep 15 02:20:34 it hacks your pre Sep 15 02:20:38 and installs a virus Sep 15 02:20:41 ... Sep 15 02:20:46 and steals your credit card number Sep 15 02:20:54 and takes a picture of you Sep 15 02:21:01 and photoshops it Sep 15 02:21:01 Eguy: only on 1.2 Sep 15 02:21:04 it's not actually funny. Sep 15 02:21:17 you can install it from preware Sep 15 02:21:21 jason cleaned it up Sep 15 02:21:30 zsoc: it is, it's clean, Jason approved it Sep 15 02:21:34 ok, so new keyboard is lifted away from the text box, that's good Sep 15 02:21:39 kesne, oh, thank you :) Sep 15 02:21:58 * zsoc wonders where the rest of the changelog is for the keyboard Sep 15 02:21:58 And compared to Jason I'm messing with playskool toys Sep 15 02:22:27 Jason = the man Sep 15 02:22:37 with a plan Sep 15 02:22:47 Eguy: no-one sent any angry emails Sep 15 02:22:47 Jason is the other guest star of next weeks palmcast Sep 15 02:22:51 <|Jason8|Raph|> <_< Sep 15 02:22:51 to go to afghanistan Sep 15 02:22:52 <|Jason8|Raph|> >_> Sep 15 02:22:54 <|Jason8|Raph|> am not. Sep 15 02:23:03 Wha... Sep 15 02:23:21 I thought they sent an email to remove all code on the predev wiki? Sep 15 02:23:32 Eguy: How did afghanistan factor into this Sep 15 02:23:38 It rhymed Sep 15 02:23:49 A ha Sep 15 02:23:59 To much spam from rwhitby, couldnt tell Sep 15 02:24:03 Eguy: nope, no-one ever sent any emails to anyone Sep 15 02:24:15 :P Sep 15 02:24:16 Who asked to have it removed then? Sep 15 02:24:21 rwhitby, i was going to say, that seems WAY outta character for Sprint Sep 15 02:25:26 ameng, ping? Sep 15 02:25:37 well forgive me for my ignorance Sep 15 02:25:37 zsoc: pong Sep 15 02:25:45 Eguy: no-one asked. tethering is a violation of the sprint terms of service for all the plans that are available for the Pre. until there is a carrier that allows tethering, you can't do it legitimately. Sep 15 02:26:25 I see Sep 15 02:26:31 it's not available on BellMo either. Sep 15 02:26:48 lol, anyone here know the show "America's got talent" ? Sep 15 02:26:54 yeah Sep 15 02:27:01 ameng, i'm curious about your direcfb work, where are you at and what are the future plans? wondering if i could help at all Sep 15 02:27:26 Eguy: saying yeah to me? Sep 15 02:27:26 * sportman waves Sep 15 02:27:30 yeah Sep 15 02:27:38 Eguy: when there is a CDMA or GSM carrier that allows tethering legitimately, you'll see a service from us and an app to control it. Sep 15 02:27:55 Eguy: by any chance did you watch the finale tonight? Sep 15 02:27:57 * zsoc makes an upstart cdma carrier that allows tethering Sep 15 02:28:06 anyone have an issue with openssh segfaulting on the actual pre? Sep 15 02:28:13 I'm recording it...don't spill it Sep 15 02:28:22 well, the last person Sep 15 02:28:24 the singer Sep 15 02:28:26 Kevin Skinner Sep 15 02:28:33 sampson: yeah, known problem. anything in /var/log/messages? I can't debug it here cause I don't have a Pre. Sep 15 02:28:37 Decimation_, HE SAID DON"T SAY ANYTHING P Sep 15 02:28:40 is my moms is my moms cousin Sep 15 02:28:43 let me check one sec Sep 15 02:28:46 no way hahahah Sep 15 02:28:49 Sep 15 02:28:56 zsoc: lol, no? Sep 15 02:29:03 Decimation_, so he's your first cousin once removed? Sep 15 02:29:07 Eguy: yeah, hes like, from kentucky. Sep 15 02:29:13 mayfield Sep 15 02:29:18 and he catches chickens for a living Sep 15 02:29:19 lmao Sep 15 02:29:36 *caught Sep 15 02:29:36 biggest hillbilly ever, but thats my moms side of the family :P straight from kentucky. Sep 15 02:29:38 Doesnt any more Sep 15 02:29:41 zsoc: in next step i want to run gtk programs. i am glad if you can help, there is much to do to polish the current version Sep 15 02:29:49 kesne: if he doesnt win he will. Sep 15 02:30:18 He will win Sep 15 02:30:23 Or should win at least Sep 15 02:30:25 I love that guy Sep 15 02:30:45 kesne: thanks :) Sep 15 02:30:49 ameng, i'm not super knowledgeable, but much more comfortable with the fb and gtk than what i've been working on. also i'm good at testing things xD Sep 15 02:30:50 :D Sep 15 02:30:54 they showed like, his wife and kids Sep 15 02:30:55 bah comp crashed with the mojo sdk hold onnn Sep 15 02:30:58 and like house and stuff Sep 15 02:31:04 and i was like.. wow.. ive hung out with them Sep 15 02:31:05 lol Sep 15 02:31:22 He's a good singer Sep 15 02:31:26 but Sep 15 02:31:34 Eguy: i dont think he'll win Sep 15 02:31:38 yeah Sep 15 02:31:43 I liked some of the other stuff Sep 15 02:31:48 i personally am not a huge fan of him Sep 15 02:31:49 like acrodunk Sep 15 02:31:50 but hey, its family :) Sep 15 02:32:10 Decimation, well now you're almost as cool as kesne Sep 15 02:32:20 * rwhitby notes that it's now #webos-watercooler time of day ... Sep 15 02:32:24 zsoc: YAY Sep 15 02:32:29 yes, that time of day Sep 15 02:32:30 rwhitby: meh Sep 15 02:32:37 It's dead in there :( Sep 15 02:32:49 My channel is always dead Sep 15 02:32:58 Eguy: nah, i just pumped up that party Sep 15 02:33:11 I'd like to be able to see ameng's comments in between the hillbilly and singer references please. Sep 15 02:33:46 Sorry mate Sep 15 02:33:46 rwhitby: fair enough, to the cooler! Sep 15 02:33:47 and sampson's debuggin Sep 15 02:34:21 rwhitby, hey don't yell at me, i was the one that managed to get ameng to make comments ;) Sep 15 02:34:27 Quick question: where does everyone here live? Sep 15 02:34:27 * zsoc wonders where ajames is Sep 15 02:34:33 kesne, everywhere Sep 15 02:34:36 nothing in messages Sep 15 02:34:40 i just ran a strace on it let me pastebin it Sep 15 02:34:47 kesne, but you live in the UK Sep 15 02:34:55 zsoc: what made you think I was yelling at you? Sep 15 02:35:25 rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/d272d66fa Sep 15 02:35:28 strace from ssh on the pre Sep 15 02:35:29 rwhitby, anytime I think of a comment I can put a winky face at the end, I tend to type it. It's more of an obsessive-compulsive brainwave relationship Sep 15 02:36:22 zsoc: I was dead serious - but I don't think you were talking about hillbillies or singers, so why are you feeling guilty? Sep 15 02:36:57 rwhitby, i think i may have egged on one or the other of them once or twice :) Sep 15 02:37:24 what we have here is a failure to communicate Sep 15 02:37:45 occupied by real life these days , i would like to explain how the dfbadapter works in the page http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:DFBAdapter if have time Sep 15 02:37:52 zsoc: where do you think I live? Sep 15 02:37:59 jho_, i don't think i've ever succeeded in communicating :) Sep 15 02:38:00 hmmm. instant gratification overpriced hdmi cable at bestbuy or buy from monoprice... Sep 15 02:38:02 kesne, the UK Sep 15 02:38:07 Not even close Sep 15 02:38:17 guys take it to the cooler Sep 15 02:38:28 did I walk in in the middle of a fight Sep 15 02:38:30 that help you at all rwhitby? Sep 15 02:38:34 Does anyone here even know? Sep 15 02:38:45 sampson: I might have to package openssl and zlib instead of just relying on the libraries on the device ... Sep 15 02:38:46 kesne, AU then, but cooler for that :p Sep 15 02:39:04 yeah it looks like it Sep 15 02:39:44 kesne: not sure if it's fixed in pro, but I was playing checkers earlier and I got to a point where I couldn't make anymore moves Sep 15 02:39:49 It didn't game over Sep 15 02:40:06 Fixed in an update, will be pushed soon Sep 15 02:40:19 okie dok, just wanted to let ya know Sep 15 02:40:32 oil: ok, got the logging info now Sep 15 02:41:39 pastebin? Sep 15 02:42:12 rwhitby: it would probably be more wise to rely on your own libs anyways... has a greater possibility of surviving webos updates Sep 15 02:42:38 sampson: yeah, we usually do that in optware, I just handn't got around to packaging the libs yet. Sep 15 02:42:45 ah Sep 15 02:43:10 oil: so here's the thing - the Installed Packages list should only use the info from the status file, right? It should not use any info from the feeds. Sep 15 02:43:26 uh Sep 15 02:43:27 no Sep 15 02:43:32 if hte package is in the feed Sep 15 02:43:42 it should load the info the status is missing Sep 15 02:44:11 oil: http://webos.pastebin.com/d542fb8c2 Sep 15 02:44:50 oil: the reality is that I have 0.1.3 installed, but 0.1.8 Sep 15 02:45:03 thats not the first time it appeared? Sep 15 02:45:34 oil: you remember I was reporting something like this last week? I think it's the same thing. Sep 15 02:48:41 was the keyboard listed before that? Sep 15 02:49:06 kesne join the watercooler Sep 15 02:49:18 Wait what? Sep 15 02:49:33 have any of you guys had problems with the terminal app? Sep 15 02:49:39 i installed the plugin first than the app Sep 15 02:49:47 but when i launch it, it doesnt allow me to type, or anything Sep 15 02:52:36 you need the terminal service Sep 15 02:54:02 i know Sep 15 02:54:15 thats what i meant by plugin Sep 15 02:54:21 my mistake misuse of words Sep 15 02:54:23 i installed the service Sep 15 02:54:25 and the app Sep 15 02:54:25 :) Sep 15 02:54:58 sportman: zlib and openssl are now in the testing feed - can you try with them? Sep 15 02:55:20 sportman: no, you are correct, termplugin is a plugin, not a service. Sep 15 02:55:40 sampson: zlib and openssl are now in the testing feed - can you try with them? Sep 15 02:55:53 sportman: the zlib message was for sampson Sep 15 02:56:12 i take it i gotta use the quick install to get that? Sep 15 02:56:16 oil: http://webos.pastebin.com/d4bb92dcf updated with both parts of the log, sorry. Sep 15 02:57:01 sampson: there's a number of ways you can access the testing feed. Sep 15 02:57:05 rwhitby: so do i need the plugin and another service? Sep 15 02:57:26 or was i fine with just installing the plugin and the app? Sep 15 02:57:44 sampson: until oil and I get this version stuff fixed, I'd recommend downloading the ipkgs from http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/ and using wosqi to install them Sep 15 02:58:02 sportman: plugin and app are fine. what did you use to install them? Sep 15 02:58:32 preware Sep 15 02:58:38 but when i launch the app i get a black screen Sep 15 02:58:41 sportman: which version please Sep 15 02:58:41 and i can click new session Sep 15 02:58:51 but it doesnt let me type, of preware or terminal Sep 15 02:58:58 in http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/testing/ I am getting an "error reading package list" alert from WebOSQuickInstall.jar - Is something wrong or is it being updated or something? Sep 15 02:59:13 sportman: actually, are you following the installation instructions on the wiki page? Sep 15 02:59:28 bclancy: wosqi does that some times - no idea why Sep 15 02:59:34 alright installing openssh, openssl & zlib Sep 15 02:59:43 first i did it with preware Sep 15 02:59:47 ill go find the install page Sep 15 02:59:51 on the wiki if thats easier **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Sep 15 02:59:57 2009