**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 27 02:59:56 2009 Sep 27 03:00:06 anyway i gotta run guys, goin for a walk with my bros Sep 27 03:00:11 ameng: awesome Sep 27 03:00:14 l8r Sep 27 03:00:29 I'm a Accounted and trust me every OS X (very few), dual boot to windows when they have to do stuff with Office. The ui is so counter intutive on their version. Sep 27 03:00:44 * Templarian hates when people do that. Sep 27 03:00:51 destinal: ;-) Sep 27 03:01:24 I'm just waiting till Courier UI is out so that the tablet market can be ceased once and for all. Sep 27 03:01:38 (not that it isn't already) Sep 27 03:02:06 I am waiting for the Mac trend to die Sep 27 03:02:18 ameng: there's no need for them to have waited so long, most of the hardware will be the same, someone could have been doing a lot of this stuff on a CDMA device Sep 27 03:02:27 Eguy: no kidding Sep 27 03:02:38 stephan hangs out on this channel for instance Sep 27 03:02:41 i like my mac :( Sep 27 03:02:47 Eguy: yea, and to be fair we can give 1/4 of it's share to linux. Sep 27 03:02:50 s/steph/stef/ Sep 27 03:02:50 destinal meant: stefan hangs out on this channel for instance Sep 27 03:03:16 why bpadalino? They would be ok if they were $400+ cheaper Sep 27 03:03:42 solid construction .. thin .. i like os x Sep 27 03:03:50 SOLID? Sep 27 03:03:52 WHAT Sep 27 03:04:12 apple has pretty innovative hardware designs Sep 27 03:04:18 destinal: seems the sponsor lives in Germany Sep 27 03:04:21 innovative? Sep 27 03:04:30 you must have been brainwashed Sep 27 03:04:32 Eguy: have you ever taken apart a powermac? I have Sep 27 03:04:41 Yes Sep 27 03:04:45 you can open them? Sep 27 03:04:51 you dont just buy new ones when they break? Sep 27 03:04:52 xD Sep 27 03:04:57 the magnetic connection for the power cable is nice Sep 27 03:04:59 touche oil Sep 27 03:05:20 * oil agrees that magnets are awesome Sep 27 03:05:33 * oil places his pre on the touchstone puck Sep 27 03:05:34 http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3199999796_541834d9f9_b.jpg you call that solid? Sep 27 03:05:34 Their computer construction isn't that bad. It's just the fact they throw everything back into marketing. MS puts everything into enterprise while Apple puts everything into marketing. Sep 27 03:05:38 Eguy: seriously, they do a lot of cool stuff with hardware that you don't find among clone makers, and some of the cases and board layouts are awesome Sep 27 03:05:59 Eguy: I don't mean their notebooks necessarily Sep 27 03:07:03 Eguy: I'm outside the reality distortion field, I think their stuff is overpriced and after the iphone debacle I won't buy another one of their products Sep 27 03:07:04 destinal: their desktops/all in one's are not anything special. They just put everything into a single board since they don't have to cater to all audiances. Sep 27 03:07:39 The only place they really excel in construction (design not so much), is their laptops. Sep 27 03:07:52 Templarian: have _you_ taken apart, say, a powermac? even their desktop stuff is put together with a finesse and craftsmanship that you don't find usually outside server vendors Sep 27 03:08:38 destinal: have you taken apart toshiba notebooks? Sep 27 03:08:46 They are even better than apple Sep 27 03:08:50 * oil has, and it was bullshit Sep 27 03:09:03 oil: toshiba notebook? Sep 27 03:09:11 and if it weren't for novaterm being released with the original webos doctor, i don't think we'd have had an in to the pre until the sdk was released Sep 27 03:09:13 oil...must have been crappy ones Sep 27 03:09:15 I don't work on notebooks Sep 27 03:09:15 yeah Sep 27 03:09:23 those I do just send back :P Sep 27 03:09:27 lol Sep 27 03:09:29 * Templarian loves fujitsu's tablets <3 Sep 27 03:09:39 i work at a family-owned company Sep 27 03:09:40 overpriced Templarian Sep 27 03:09:46 so basically i work on all their kids shit also Sep 27 03:10:04 Eguy: I know, the university i work for got some in last year and I helped train the faculty. Sep 27 03:10:07 they broke the power connector off inside Sep 27 03:10:17 (they were like 2k each but so nice) Sep 27 03:10:23 part of why I have desktop machines at home where possible, user serviceable parts I can do things with without being a contortionist or having to neatly stack layers of screws with a diagram about where to put them back Sep 27 03:10:43 Yes destinal Sep 27 03:10:57 Rod is gonna get very angry when he sees the log size :P Sep 27 03:11:16 i think the easiest time ive had opening laptops Sep 27 03:11:21 was an ibm x41 tablet Sep 27 03:11:22 I've always gone gaming so my computers have never been under 2k so it will be funny getting a tablet which will match my current laptop, but it will be worth it. :) Sep 27 03:11:44 Templarian: no tablet really has a good gpu lol Sep 27 03:12:08 Eguy: heh, we are kind of in watercooler mode, aren't we? Sep 27 03:12:42 indeed ;) Sep 27 03:13:10 I don't play games enough anymore for it to be worth it. I'm almost going to just get a 360 since it's such a rare occurance. Sep 27 03:13:36 Mine has a x1250 which is crap but it is better than an intel in terms of performance Sep 27 03:14:07 * oil points out that 360 > pc gaming just to start shit Sep 27 03:14:20 if guy does prerm run after everything has been uninstalled? Sep 27 03:14:21 I have a 2.5 year old 8400M T8300 Sep 27 03:14:39 if I was to backup from files to /var/usr/palm/application/xxxxxx would they be deleted before prerm is run? Sep 27 03:14:53 Forza 3 demo = amazing Sep 27 03:15:01 * Templarian thinks wow a real webos-internals question. Sep 27 03:15:11 hehe yeah :) Sep 27 03:16:22 wait this is webos-internals? Sep 27 03:16:24 ;) Sep 27 03:20:39 greg_roll: prerm should be run _before_ everything is uninstalled. thus, "pre-rm" Sep 27 03:21:00 destinal: thanks! Sep 27 03:21:41 greg_roll: congrats on working plugins, saw screenshots taken of the MSN messenger stuff Sep 27 03:22:13 destinal: thanks. Thats why i need to backup files. I updated libpurple as palms version is too old Sep 27 03:23:02 greg_roll: well, couldn't you just use a different filename? Sep 27 03:23:25 Hey all. Does anyone know if someone is working on an a way to log phone calls to the google calendar. It would be a nice addition for business users. Sep 27 03:23:45 destinal: not sure some of it is expecting a certain library even with a sym link I would replace the library for others Sep 27 03:24:26 plus by upgrading libpurple I can rollout newer version of aim, gtalk and yahoo which will have lots of bug fixes Sep 27 03:24:29 greg_roll: we've tried in the past to avoid overwriting stuff that ships on the device if we can. otherwise OTA updates and other things can cause huge problems Sep 27 03:24:47 no reason you can't have multiple versions of a lib on a device Sep 27 03:25:23 yeah I do agree with you. I will work on it. I've only just got it to work on the Pre so ill keep at it Sep 27 03:27:26 im seeing palm pre emulator info, whats this? Sep 27 03:28:42 phiq: the webos emulator is part of the palm webos SDK. (http://developer.palm.com/) Sep 27 03:29:28 Does anyone know if whitby got his pre before he went on vacation? Sep 27 03:29:36 Templarian: yes, he did Sep 27 03:29:42 thx Sep 27 03:30:03 I'm sure that's a great distraction while on vacation. lol. Sep 27 03:32:15 Ron001: that's an interesting idea .. log to calendar .. i would be interesting if you could record the conversations automatically and save them as appointment attachments Sep 27 03:33:42 http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2009/09/25/gsm-palm-pre-on-the-horizon/ , they think palm pre is more open than nokia n900, heh Sep 27 03:35:13 they should leave the pre with sprint Sep 27 03:35:39 bpadalino: you mean the voice? I had not even thought of that.I was simply referring to the time contact and duration. Here in Maryland, recording a conversation without the other parties consent breaks our wiretapping laws - couldn't do that with an official release app. Sep 27 03:36:13 ron001, you just have to make sure you abide by your local laws before recording .. that's all Sep 27 03:36:56 bpadalino: true. Its the users responsibility. Sep 27 03:37:11 indeed Sep 27 03:41:08 I imagine it would not be that hard as the call log already exists, and the google calendar sync already exists. Its just copying from one to another. Sep 27 03:41:44 indeed Sep 27 03:42:13 maybe you should suggest it on the official palm forums ? Sep 27 03:44:07 I can do that. I like to snoop here once in a while. I know veterinary medicine, not programming, but can follow most of whats being talked about - its very cool. Sep 27 03:44:31 neat Sep 27 03:46:42 anyone pretty good with list widget and ajax get available to help me out real quick? Sep 27 03:49:01 can i connect my pre to an ad-hoc network without mytether? Sep 27 03:50:00 how good are you with the command line ? Sep 27 03:51:00 i've never rooted my pre but linux is my OS Sep 27 03:51:52 should be easy peasy for you then Sep 27 03:52:18 shoot Sep 27 03:53:03 oh, i've never done it .. but the driver that's loaded can support being put into ad-hoc mode .. so you just need to set it up and make sure your iptables are correct Sep 27 03:53:38 i dont wanna set the pre in ad hoc mode Sep 27 03:53:47 i want to connect to an ad hoc network Sep 27 03:53:49 you just want to connect up to an ad hoc network Sep 27 03:53:51 from the pre Sep 27 03:53:54 yeah no idea ... you should try it out Sep 27 03:53:56 see what hapens Sep 27 03:55:26 yeah Sep 27 03:58:13 does it work ? Sep 27 03:59:23 all i have found is how to enable ad hoc on the pre Sep 27 04:00:16 do you have any ad hoc networks around you ? Sep 27 04:07:23 destinal: ping Sep 27 04:19:32 if anyone wants to buy a windows 7 ultimate key - im selling for $60... ill also burn the iso to a disc for you. Sep 27 04:20:00 what an offer.. Sep 27 04:20:41 Hello! Sep 27 04:21:40 oil: ps3 >> 360 :D Sep 27 04:21:47 ^^ just to start shit Sep 27 04:21:57 I need to get my own app off of my Pre (HDD failure) Sep 27 04:22:03 PS3 is the superior console Sep 27 04:22:32 So can anyone link me to a potential solution? My last source backup is somewhat old... Sep 27 04:22:57 It would be a bother to make that progress again Sep 27 04:23:12 I'll use SVN this time... maybe even Git! Sep 27 04:24:31 * oil just says "psh" to ps3 comment Sep 27 04:25:06 don't say "rooted" please ;) Sep 27 04:27:23 who's rooting? Sep 27 04:28:32 anyone have an idea if there is some progress on getting DivX or Xvid playback? Sep 27 04:28:50 some Sep 27 04:30:18 i just wish i was smart enough figure it out, lol. I can understand most everything people talk about, but when it comes to me actually implementing something on my own, heh....good luck Sep 27 04:31:18 i'm super excited about how far they've gotten on video recording Sep 27 04:35:03 it's all already in gstreamer Sep 27 04:35:23 making it available to mojo apps... that's harder Sep 27 04:36:12 it will have to be a plugin Sep 27 04:36:35 yeah, mediaserver is pretty opaque Sep 27 04:37:08 Just saw this commercial during SNL.. I hadn't seen it yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGPU4iNA3xQ Sep 27 04:37:11 how far have people gotten writing services in C? Sep 27 04:37:15 It sure pimps the pre. Sep 27 04:37:42 PuffTheMagic writes lots of services in C. ;) Sep 27 04:37:52 yeah, they got hte headers from palm Sep 27 04:38:08 which didnt help for shit :D Sep 27 04:38:12 nice Sep 27 04:38:18 just made legal shit easier Sep 27 04:38:22 PuffTheMagic writes his own headers Sep 27 04:38:27 lol Sep 27 04:38:31 lol Sep 27 04:38:42 im just pissed I wasted time on it Sep 27 04:38:42 well they gave it to you after you practically figured it all out Sep 27 04:38:49 do we have any headers for libpiranha? Sep 27 04:38:49 yeah Sep 27 04:38:56 ajames: some Sep 27 04:38:59 They said, "Hey.. GREAT job on writing umm... these" Sep 27 04:39:01 hehehehe Sep 27 04:39:02 but still it would have to be a plugin for video capture and not a service Sep 27 04:39:08 it would need to draw the image right in the card Sep 27 04:39:12 like the camera Sep 27 04:39:12 PuffTheMagic: sweet! Sep 27 04:39:15 dBsooner: we have like 1% of the missing headers Sep 27 04:39:19 ajames: not sweet Sep 27 04:39:21 shitty Sep 27 04:39:31 It was quite shitty Sep 27 04:39:43 and yes, I know. They will give out more.. eventually. Sep 27 04:39:53 idk about libpiranah Sep 27 04:39:55 After you write more. ;) Sep 27 04:40:06 i dont see them getting released any time soon Sep 27 04:40:20 maybe after dfb adapter is released :D Sep 27 04:40:25 hey, if it lets me compile against some of their libs, that's pretty good Sep 27 04:40:27 after we waste more time Sep 27 04:40:33 how does that FlowMotion company get such cool API's? Sep 27 04:40:46 FlowMotion? Sep 27 04:40:52 or motionapps Sep 27 04:40:58 what did they make? Sep 27 04:40:59 whatever that company name is.. give me a sec.. Sep 27 04:41:03 palmos emu Sep 27 04:41:08 yes Sep 27 04:41:09 i'm torn between wanting palm to open all of this and replacing it all with emdebian Sep 27 04:41:11 oh Sep 27 04:41:20 well they got that cause they made a special app for palm Sep 27 04:41:33 cause palm has no apps Sep 27 04:41:34 they had their hands under the table during a meeting? Sep 27 04:41:57 i vote we send dbsooner to give palm people favors to get what we need Sep 27 04:42:12 hmmm... I would have to vote no. Sep 27 04:42:17 lol Sep 27 04:43:59 everytime we release something palm does Sep 27 04:44:25 i'm sort of afraid of that with this ogg stuff Sep 27 04:44:40 they could just support it later this week with 1.2 :) Sep 27 04:45:06 So release a cool graphics library control Sep 27 04:45:07 :D Sep 27 04:45:13 Maybe they will give us WebGL Sep 27 04:45:41 GL Sep 27 04:45:50 i would be happy with decent 2d libs right now Sep 27 04:45:54 watch it ajames Sep 27 04:46:14 don't expect an os update.... just be surprised lol Sep 27 04:46:15 oh come on.. 2d is soo old school.. 1d is where it's at. Sep 27 04:46:31 we have 1d :D Sep 27 04:46:36 I know! Sep 27 04:46:36 terminal is 1d :D Sep 27 04:46:38 It's the best! Sep 27 04:46:48 No one wants/needs 2d Sep 27 04:46:59 V8-GL is what whe are going to get. Sep 27 04:47:25 we need V12 Sep 27 04:47:31 more horsepower Sep 27 04:47:41 and eguy is the one bitching about battery life all the time Sep 27 04:47:59 that's me! Sep 27 04:48:30 no, i meant the other eguy Sep 27 04:48:36 ah Sep 27 04:48:48 you mean egaudet? [old reference] Sep 27 04:49:19 lol Sep 27 04:49:57 egaudet: i figured out setting the model of the sub-widget when the list widget automagically sets it up Sep 27 04:50:30 i put the model for the toggle button in the list item model (in with name, url, etc for the rowtemplate) Sep 27 04:52:01 nice Sep 27 04:52:28 yeah, it was working without hte list widget, but i really wanted to use swipe-delete for the feeds Sep 27 04:52:55 yea swipe delete is good Sep 27 04:53:06 i saw the screenshot too :D Sep 27 04:53:07 you guys familiar with setting up responseText from ajax to listmodel? Sep 27 04:53:09 looking good Sep 27 04:53:10 Templarian: so i could really give 2 shits about V8-GL, i want raw compiled graphics:D Sep 27 04:53:35 and even when they give puff that, he still wont be happy Sep 27 04:53:35 xD Sep 27 04:53:59 Well what puff just said was that it is at least possible that he could care about V8-GL Sep 27 04:54:04 * Eguy still want's directx Sep 27 04:54:07 I would like to see a DX9 card for mobiel devices. Sep 27 04:54:14 lol Sep 27 04:54:20 Eguy: don't read my mind it's not nice. Sep 27 04:54:22 couldn't* Sep 27 04:54:25 :) Sep 27 04:54:29 sorry Templarian Sep 27 04:54:37 I couldn't help myself Sep 27 04:54:45 oil: ok so Monday!!! Sep 27 04:54:50 haha Sep 27 04:54:50 Just had to type it before I was done. :{ Sep 27 04:54:51 wIRCd Sep 27 04:54:52 I did find some rather disturbing stuff in your mind though Sep 27 04:54:57 yeah, i just finished eating dinner again... Sep 27 04:54:57 I won't go back Sep 27 04:54:58 xD Sep 27 04:55:03 oil: you will be able to connected/discoonect Sep 27 04:55:05 :D Sep 27 04:55:08 hey hey ! Sep 27 04:55:09 maybe somre more Sep 27 04:55:12 more then it can do right now Sep 27 04:55:14 which is nothing Sep 27 04:55:28 oil: no Sep 27 04:55:29 it runs Sep 27 04:55:31 and does nothing Sep 27 04:55:33 :D Sep 27 04:55:35 lol Sep 27 04:55:49 Where is my IRC client? Sep 27 04:55:53 anyways, im thinking of mostly just copying the messaging app Sep 27 04:56:00 oil: ewww Sep 27 04:56:06 that shiht is ugly Sep 27 04:56:06 lol Sep 27 04:56:08 well Sep 27 04:56:08 you can't Sep 27 04:56:10 not in colors Sep 27 04:56:15 but in general look Sep 27 04:56:20 textbox at bottom Sep 27 04:56:21 text in middle Sep 27 04:56:22 ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Sep 27 04:56:25 header at top with the channel name Sep 27 04:56:29 copy line by line the palm app :P Sep 27 04:56:35 and the button on the right will popup a list Sep 27 04:56:37 for like Sep 27 04:56:42 to see users Sep 27 04:56:43 or what not Sep 27 04:56:45 you aren't allowed to copy the messaging app anyway and distribute it Sep 27 04:56:46 that will change hte view Sep 27 04:56:51 when i meant copy Sep 27 04:56:56 when i said copy* Sep 27 04:56:57 i meant Sep 27 04:56:58 look at it Sep 27 04:57:01 and write my own shit Sep 27 04:57:02 oil: u never answered me about the main screen Sep 27 04:57:04 :P Sep 27 04:57:06 oil: Copy that wmIRC look Sep 27 04:57:07 not copy/paste line my line Sep 27 04:57:08 about it being a server list Sep 27 04:57:12 you write in your own shit oil? Sep 27 04:57:17 yeah, thats fine with me Sep 27 04:57:22 oil: ok good Sep 27 04:57:23 and a add button at the bottom Sep 27 04:57:36 oil: swipe to delete :D Sep 27 04:57:45 swipe to delete is easy cheese Sep 27 04:58:01 thanks to mojo Sep 27 04:58:03 lol Sep 27 04:58:15 so once you connect Sep 27 04:58:20 it what, pops up another card Sep 27 04:58:22 for that connection Sep 27 04:58:29 with buttons for join/pm/whatever else you want Sep 27 04:58:32 and the status messages Sep 27 04:58:37 no buttons Sep 27 04:58:41 ewww Sep 27 04:58:49 they will have to type /join #asdf Sep 27 04:58:50 ? Sep 27 04:58:51 that can all be menu shit Sep 27 04:58:55 lol Sep 27 04:58:57 for channel lists Sep 27 04:59:05 screen space is valuable Sep 27 04:59:07 right, i wasnt thinking a list Sep 27 04:59:11 dont waste it with buttons Sep 27 04:59:18 lol Sep 27 04:59:26 only button on screen is the toggle for channel/nick view Sep 27 04:59:27 menu stuff Sep 27 04:59:37 yeah, what puff said Sep 27 04:59:46 yeah what i said :D Sep 27 04:59:49 one gives you the channel view with your text Sep 27 04:59:52 dont egg puff on Sep 27 04:59:54 the other view is the nick list Sep 27 04:59:59 and its just a toggle button Sep 27 05:00:03 oil: its ok,, i dont need egging Sep 27 05:00:06 i know Sep 27 05:00:08 im automatic Sep 27 05:00:09 thats why im telling him not to Sep 27 05:00:24 lol Sep 27 05:00:47 OR.. Sep 27 05:00:53 nicklist can be another card Sep 27 05:01:00 its going to be another view in the same card Sep 27 05:01:00 so you can use swipes to get to them Sep 27 05:01:11 im so glad everyone thinks im a douche bag Sep 27 05:01:21 no, not a bag of douche Sep 27 05:01:33 hey hey now puff Sep 27 05:01:37 just very very strongly opinionated, with no self censoring Sep 27 05:01:38 oil is the douche here Sep 27 05:02:01 So each channel would be their own card? Sep 27 05:02:04 right Sep 27 05:02:08 hmm Sep 27 05:02:28 luna is going to have a hay day with ram eating Sep 27 05:02:28 i have IRC Turrets Sep 27 05:02:41 and you can use ubermonitor to check it out xD Sep 27 05:02:47 lol Sep 27 05:02:47 yes I can Sep 27 05:02:48 :D Sep 27 05:02:51 was that released yet? Sep 27 05:02:54 no Sep 27 05:02:56 its just on my pc Sep 27 05:02:57 thats it Sep 27 05:03:01 i think there was a zip at one point Sep 27 05:03:08 But I got uberservice. :D Sep 27 05:03:10 dBsooner: im gonna rewrite all the java shit in C Sep 27 05:03:10 some day Sep 27 05:03:11 :D Sep 27 05:03:22 dBsooner: u dont have uberservice Sep 27 05:03:23 I need that ubermonitor zip file Sep 27 05:03:26 u have ubermonsrv Sep 27 05:03:31 luna needs to loose some weight Sep 27 05:03:31 yeah, that Sep 27 05:03:33 uberservice isnt releaseed yet Sep 27 05:03:35 not even pushed Sep 27 05:03:35 and be less of a whore Sep 27 05:03:43 i have a super uber service in the works Sep 27 05:03:57 luna steals things Sep 27 05:04:10 yeah, there is a very very incomplete gui for the service Sep 27 05:04:28 yeah cause people keep giving me more work to do Sep 27 05:04:32 haha Sep 27 05:04:40 i have like 5 services going and i suck at C Sep 27 05:04:41 :D Sep 27 05:04:51 well... im not fast at it Sep 27 05:04:52 and i have a bunch of apps for them going Sep 27 05:04:55 and im ok at js Sep 27 05:04:57 I decided not to write that program to "rename applications, install app, move applications, delete ranemed" Sep 27 05:05:03 to get around the 50 app limit Sep 27 05:05:14 <--- give some C work to this guy Sep 27 05:05:16 I got some inside info that will be fixed "very soon" Sep 27 05:05:27 lol Sep 27 05:05:34 egaudet: the git services and the restore app is gonna be sweet :D Sep 27 05:05:43 I LOVE C Sep 27 05:05:49 i love it too Sep 27 05:05:49 I used to program for MUDS Sep 27 05:05:52 i can help with C too Sep 27 05:05:56 all in C Sep 27 05:05:58 im just not fast at writing it Sep 27 05:06:09 look at all these people wanting to help with your c Sep 27 05:06:11 i can bang out java real fast Sep 27 05:06:14 now you just need to hand some of them off Sep 27 05:06:18 PuffTheMagic, I know it is :D I should probably start helping with C rather than gathering all the patches in the universe that will probably be used by no one Sep 27 05:06:33 I use patches Sep 27 05:06:34 :D Sep 27 05:06:35 all I do all day every day is C Sep 27 05:06:37 Does anyone know what the file location is of the cookies? Sep 27 05:06:40 at work Sep 27 05:06:55 its in teh cookie jar Sep 27 05:06:59 is there a mojo app using the ubermonsrv? Sep 27 05:07:02 there is Sep 27 05:07:02 egaudet: i will redo the git server on pym so that its the same setup as repo.or.cz Sep 27 05:07:10 then it will be really easy for you all to contribute Sep 27 05:07:12 dBsooner, then go alpha test the autopatch feed! :P Sep 27 05:07:18 NO Sep 27 05:07:24 I don't want to break my pre tonight Sep 27 05:07:26 :D Sep 27 05:07:29 it won't break! Sep 27 05:07:32 I semi-promise Sep 27 05:07:35 LOL Sep 27 05:07:42 and if it does I'm 90% confident in EPR Sep 27 05:07:43 I don't want to use EPR tonight Sep 27 05:07:47 lol Sep 27 05:07:49 xD Sep 27 05:08:22 autopatch is unbreakable! Sep 27 05:08:38 There is always webosdoc Sep 27 05:08:42 jIC Sep 27 05:08:53 or repair utility Sep 27 05:08:56 Have you seen the doctor today? Sep 27 05:08:58 egaudet: http://i35.tinypic.com/e96bo0.png Sep 27 05:09:04 though, that screenshot is a lil old Sep 27 05:09:20 gimme Sep 27 05:09:46 where is it oil? Sep 27 05:09:53 in my hd Sep 27 05:09:57 holy crap no wonder the pre lags Sep 27 05:09:57 i was going to put it on pym Sep 27 05:09:58 lol.. 227MB of ram used... 200 of which is pWNED by LUNA Sep 27 05:10:06 oil: its not down yet Sep 27 05:10:08 but apparently now its going the way of the dinosaurs Sep 27 05:10:15 * Eguy hacks oils computer Sep 27 05:10:17 not to mention the fact i could never get it to work Sep 27 05:10:21 i could make a zup Sep 27 05:10:23 zip* Sep 27 05:10:25 oil: bullshit Sep 27 05:10:32 oil: you just couldnt get git to work Sep 27 05:10:35 we tried for like an hour to get me to commit Sep 27 05:10:35 yeah Sep 27 05:10:37 idk wtf Sep 27 05:10:43 oil: do you want me to make services wor work on git? Sep 27 05:10:45 which one? Sep 27 05:10:48 put the ipk somewheres Sep 27 05:10:49 exactly Sep 27 05:10:57 which is why i never brought it up again Sep 27 05:10:58 well Sep 27 05:10:59 until now Sep 27 05:11:01 i will fix git Sep 27 05:11:04 dont Sep 27 05:11:10 work on irc or ubermonsrv or something Sep 27 05:11:11 xD Sep 27 05:11:18 its ubersercice now Sep 27 05:11:24 lol Sep 27 05:11:28 since it is more than a monitor Sep 27 05:11:35 so oil, the listing of feeds is hardcoded? Sep 27 05:11:41 its gonna change acceleromter shit and cpufreq shit Sep 27 05:11:47 its in the service Sep 27 05:11:53 well Sep 27 05:11:58 its in its postinst Sep 27 05:12:02 i believe Sep 27 05:12:15 PuffTheMagic: im fine with that Sep 27 05:12:31 the app will just be what Sep 27 05:12:32 uber? Sep 27 05:12:33 oil: and any other tunable Sep 27 05:12:37 that people find Sep 27 05:12:45 "uberSomethingSomething" Sep 27 05:12:46 Could the service parse /var/etc/ipkg/ and send you a list of feeds that are installed Sep 27 05:12:54 egaudet: it does Sep 27 05:12:59 Who cares about the service is no one writes a front end UI for it. ;) Sep 27 05:13:02 i load the packages by feed Sep 27 05:13:06 autopatch isn't listed Sep 27 05:13:12 dBsooner: me and oil are tag team Sep 27 05:13:13 :D Sep 27 05:13:18 I mean when i hit feeds from available applications Sep 27 05:13:19 i do the service he do the gui Sep 27 05:13:26 its not in the package manager service postinst? Sep 27 05:13:37 ive installed the autopatch feed manually on the emu Sep 27 05:13:40 and it shows in the feeds list Sep 27 05:13:43 it loads them Sep 27 05:13:47 * PuffTheMagic wishes the emu worked Sep 27 05:13:52 oh Sep 27 05:13:53 from there Sep 27 05:13:56 well Sep 27 05:14:01 my kernel is too new and dont have pulseaudio Sep 27 05:14:02 is the autopatch feed on the wiki? Sep 27 05:14:02 available applications isnt patches Sep 27 05:14:05 its applications Sep 27 05:14:07 i cant build the vbox modules Sep 27 05:14:15 dBsooner, no it's alpha Sep 27 05:14:19 good Sep 27 05:14:19 i need to hack the emulator jar to disable pulse Sep 27 05:14:22 it wont show unless there is a app in the feed Sep 27 05:14:24 good!? Sep 27 05:14:31 good that its not on there yet Sep 27 05:14:33 as it's alpha Sep 27 05:14:34 ;) Sep 27 05:14:40 oil, well you don't know what's in a custom added feed Sep 27 05:14:42 give me the feed Sep 27 05:14:49 so how do you know what feed supplies what Sep 27 05:14:54 i do Sep 27 05:14:55 when i load them Sep 27 05:15:05 each package has "feed: this feed" Sep 27 05:15:11 when i grab the grouped list for applications Sep 27 05:15:18 so if i put one thing in autopatch with Type: Application, then it would appear in feeds view on available applications? Sep 27 05:15:19 i say, give me all the feeds from package type: applications" Sep 27 05:15:22 right Sep 27 05:15:34 oh ok that's... awesome Sep 27 05:15:43 was that sarcasm? Sep 27 05:15:45 i cant tell Sep 27 05:15:54 dBsooner, http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all/ Sep 27 05:15:58 ty Sep 27 05:16:01 oil no Sep 27 05:16:03 ok Sep 27 05:16:10 * dBsooner goes to uninstall all patches from QuickInstall Sep 27 05:16:14 really is awesome :D Sep 27 05:16:15 oil: u need to make /sarcasm work in wIRC :D Sep 27 05:16:17 if you switch your main scene to "show all package types" Sep 27 05:16:29 and you go into there Sep 27 05:16:31 and go to feeds Sep 27 05:16:36 you'll see autopatch Sep 27 05:17:27 still don't see autopatch Sep 27 05:17:40 hmm Sep 27 05:17:42 your right Sep 27 05:17:45 lol Sep 27 05:17:49 let me build latest preware Sep 27 05:18:02 i have 0.9.1 from yesterday or 2 days ago Sep 27 05:18:07 egaudet: you think stripping all patches out via QuickInstall is sufficient, or should I doctor? Sep 27 05:18:10 oil: u need to make the feed list scroll or something Sep 27 05:18:12 i just pushed a fix to the default sorting Sep 27 05:18:15 the list is overflowing now Sep 27 05:18:21 that list isnt in the newest version Sep 27 05:18:26 its got the way better list Sep 27 05:18:31 dBsooner, strip em out is fine, and even if you don't the autopatch feed packages should simply fial to install and do nothing nasty Sep 27 05:18:34 fail* Sep 27 05:18:42 that list was temporary Sep 27 05:18:46 "should" Sep 27 05:18:53 when rwhitby was like we should be able to see the feeds" Sep 27 05:18:59 so i slapped that in Sep 27 05:19:03 and if you really want to be clean, use the repair utility after removing tweaks to make sure everyhing is stock, no need to complete doctor Sep 27 05:19:21 yea well everything in software is "should" to me Sep 27 05:19:35 hmm Sep 27 05:19:42 jason's repair util? Sep 27 05:19:46 yea Sep 27 05:19:47 k Sep 27 05:19:57 all that does is check MD5 sums, no? Sep 27 05:20:01 egaudet: they show in the webos internals feed Sep 27 05:20:13 do you have that in the metadata? Sep 27 05:20:39 dBsooner, no it also lets you "repair" any files that md5sum doens't match Sep 27 05:20:52 it extracts from the doctor and updates the files that it detects aren't right Sep 27 05:20:53 the feed list in the package group scene is compiled from the feed value in the medata Sep 27 05:20:57 not from the actual feed it comes from Sep 27 05:21:07 i didn't think it could because that would be distributing palm's files Sep 27 05:21:12 what feed value? Sep 27 05:21:12 OHHH.. it uses the doctor Sep 27 05:21:14 nice Sep 27 05:21:42 egaudet http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Packaging_Standards Sep 27 05:21:50 in the source table Sep 27 05:22:18 Anyone got a sec to help diagnose an email issue? Sep 27 05:23:53 k I'll change the feed for the patch packages on the next version bump Sep 27 05:24:02 but in the newest preware Sep 27 05:24:06 if you go to preferences Sep 27 05:24:11 then in its app menu is feeds Sep 27 05:24:12 I want newest preware. :D Sep 27 05:24:20 build it Sep 27 05:24:22 thats where the new feed list is Sep 27 05:24:26 dBsooner: its in the repo Sep 27 05:25:26 * PuffTheMagic starts catching up on old entourages Sep 27 05:25:44 that doesnt sound like "working on services" Sep 27 05:25:45 xD Sep 27 05:25:56 egaudet: ubermonapp ipk http://omploader.org/vMmZpNA/ubermonitor0.0.1.ipk Sep 27 05:26:02 oil: i cant write C after 3 manhattans Sep 27 05:26:09 only 3 buttons on the main scene actually work Sep 27 05:26:14 memory, battery, service test Sep 27 05:26:26 diskstats work in the sercice now Sep 27 05:26:27 :D Sep 27 05:26:35 gonna add some net shit soon Sep 27 05:26:41 * oil waits for puff to build him an ipk so he can work with it Sep 27 05:27:00 oil: i need to get subscriptions working with the 3rd rewrite :D Sep 27 05:27:06 lol Sep 27 05:27:06 but now its 1 subscription per group Sep 27 05:27:12 much more better Sep 27 05:27:13 so u eget all memory shit in one call Sep 27 05:27:27 too bad that also means i need to rewrite shit Sep 27 05:27:35 and by rewrite, i mean, stripp out a bunch of calls Sep 27 05:27:38 lol Sep 27 05:27:51 brb Sep 27 05:28:05 yea yeah... my apps evolve as a write them Sep 27 05:28:30 btw I updated the applauncher reset scroll on page change patch on the wiki and added it to gitorious (and autopatch feed) if anyone cares Sep 27 05:28:51 I like it, I can't stand the applauncher remembering the scroll position on pages Sep 27 05:31:25 lol Sep 27 05:31:33 your patches need icons, too xD Sep 27 05:31:56 They aren't my patches :P Sep 27 05:32:23 but yea they do need icons Sep 27 05:32:36 and half of them still have ??? for description Sep 27 05:32:39 and we can use palms icons if we edit them right? Sep 27 05:33:08 i dunno Sep 27 05:33:43 so like, this patch edits the browser, the icon is the browser icon, in like grayscale or something Sep 27 05:33:51 with little patch-icon in the bottom right corner Sep 27 05:35:09 anyone with more knowledge of licensing/etc care to chime in? Sep 27 05:35:31 I would assume as long as you change it in some way Sep 27 05:35:34 that's all that amtters. Sep 27 05:35:38 It can't be an exact replica Sep 27 05:35:47 mirror it Sep 27 05:36:04 in other words, rotate it 180 degrees. ;) Sep 27 05:36:13 360? Sep 27 05:36:34 lol Sep 27 05:36:35 sure Sep 27 05:36:41 but that would be an exact replica Sep 27 05:36:41 ;) Sep 27 05:37:38 ping Decimation Sep 27 05:37:56 oil: u need to put that 360 in the trash Sep 27 05:38:30 psh Sep 27 05:38:41 The 360 is a fat pile of crap, but xbox live is where it's at Sep 27 05:38:55 I'm waiting on a new dvd-rom so I can play games again Sep 27 05:39:08 lol Sep 27 05:39:14 stupid worthlessly designed Sep 27 05:40:32 yeah Sep 27 05:40:35 ive replaced my dvd drive Sep 27 05:40:42 and fixed e74 Sep 27 05:40:49 what's e74 Sep 27 05:40:55 one red quadrent Sep 27 05:41:06 what dvd drive do you have? Sep 27 05:41:16 i dont know off the top of my head Sep 27 05:41:19 my box is a launch-box though Sep 27 05:41:22 whatever was the first one Sep 27 05:41:31 i had to go through all the firmware hacking bs Sep 27 05:41:38 just to copy my firmware from the broken drive to the new one Sep 27 05:41:43 yea that's what i know will piss me off Sep 27 05:41:43 so i wouldnt get banned online Sep 27 05:41:55 i ended up buying a sata card Sep 27 05:41:59 my onboard wasnt compatible Sep 27 05:42:07 I hope my onboard is compatible Sep 27 05:42:16 but $30 for the drive, and $15? for the card was less then a new box Sep 27 05:42:18 so it was worth it Sep 27 05:42:47 yea, I got the drive for $25 Sep 27 05:42:54 yeah, something like that Sep 27 05:42:58 it was like a year ago when i did it Sep 27 05:43:05 I'll get an elite eventually but i need to play for now! i just bought madden too Sep 27 05:43:19 damn dvd drive won't work enough to even install the game Sep 27 05:44:04 lol Sep 27 05:44:07 yeah Sep 27 05:44:12 my drive scratched gta4 to shit Sep 27 05:44:16 30%... dirty disc! Sep 27 05:44:18 when the dlc came out Sep 27 05:44:27 i got hte new drive Sep 27 05:44:27 gta4 was shit anyway Sep 27 05:44:32 and copied by friends to the hd Sep 27 05:44:34 and played it like that Sep 27 05:44:41 gta4 is a good game Sep 27 05:44:48 no Sep 27 05:44:53 i think* Sep 27 05:44:53 all the other gta's were good Sep 27 05:44:55 yea I'm taking my hdd to a buddy's and installing madden on it wihle i wait for this drive to ge tshipped from china Sep 27 05:44:56 4 sucked Sep 27 05:44:57 i could care less what you think Sep 27 05:44:57 lol Sep 27 05:45:07 couldnt* Sep 27 05:45:08 damn Sep 27 05:45:10 the new need for speed looks amazing though Sep 27 05:45:18 * oil is not a racing game fan Sep 27 05:45:24 and gta5 Sep 27 05:45:24 call of duty... november Sep 27 05:45:25 but that doesn't mean im going to say it sucks Sep 27 05:45:26 errr Sep 27 05:45:27 gt5 Sep 27 05:45:28 cant wait Sep 27 05:45:51 the good (even number) call of duty devs :D Sep 27 05:46:02 lolol Sep 27 05:46:05 http://i34.tinypic.com/2v2xnva.png Sep 27 05:46:07 is my patch icon idea Sep 27 05:46:15 idk if it breaks laws or anything though Sep 27 05:46:41 i like it if we can do it Sep 27 05:46:41 mirror it! Sep 27 05:46:54 i wish someone who knew for sure would chime in Sep 27 05:46:56 Wait Sep 27 05:47:00 You can Sep 27 05:47:04 im totally not going to waste the time on more if we cant Sep 27 05:47:05 the theme's haven't been taken down Sep 27 05:47:21 And the theme's redistribute the same icons in various colors Sep 27 05:47:27 so I am SURE it's ok Sep 27 05:47:31 not taken down YET doesnt mean anything Sep 27 05:47:35 besides they're a little slow Sep 27 05:47:43 They haven't even been yelled at Sep 27 05:47:45 or about Sep 27 05:47:58 i dont think "they're doing it!" is a good enough defense Sep 27 05:48:35 lol Sep 27 05:48:36 sure it is Sep 27 05:48:50 Ask rod Sep 27 05:49:18 egaudet: when we get someone in the know to say yay or nay on the matter ill whip em all up if they say yay Sep 27 05:49:47 sounds good to me :D Sep 27 05:49:58 well Sep 27 05:50:01 for all those that have icons Sep 27 05:50:08 app launcher doesnt have one Sep 27 05:50:09 well Sep 27 05:50:13 i guess we could use the up arrow Sep 27 05:50:19 framework though? Sep 27 05:50:20 yea we'll need a "luna" icon Sep 27 05:50:22 dont think there is an icon Sep 27 05:50:41 we could just use the moon Sep 27 05:50:45 a moon image* Sep 27 05:50:51 no.. Use a Ram chip Sep 27 05:50:56 cuz she's a ram stealing whore Sep 27 05:50:58 applauncher, luna, frameworks are the 3 we'll need Sep 27 05:59:53 Hey oil Sep 27 05:59:57 ? Sep 27 06:00:13 I just built and install 0.9.1 and now PW thinks 3 of my packages are out of date.. Sep 27 06:00:29 Internalz/FileMgr Service and Weatherman Sep 27 06:01:18 ANy ideas as why? Sep 27 06:01:31 no clue Sep 27 06:01:36 good show Sep 27 06:01:39 what version do you have installed/what version does it say is new? Sep 27 06:01:52 Filemgr service = 0.1.1 for both Sep 27 06:02:25 Weather = 1.0.5 for both Sep 27 06:02:46 hmm Sep 27 06:02:54 now it says 1.0.3 for installed Sep 27 06:03:08 i'll just update Sep 27 06:05:08 egaudet: i just whipped up a photoshop action and batch processed the icons Sep 27 06:05:14 so, when we know ill upload a zip for ya Sep 27 06:05:41 :D nice Sep 27 06:07:06 lol Sep 27 06:07:10 if you look at gnu patch in preware Sep 27 06:07:15 its got the list of dependent packages Sep 27 06:07:18 they're all the stock icons right now Sep 27 06:07:24 except the keyboard Sep 27 06:07:25 lol Sep 27 06:08:35 but the optware bootstrap has a bunch with templarians sexy icons Sep 27 06:10:05 where can i see dependent packages Sep 27 06:13:11 when you're looking at the app Sep 27 06:13:14 its like the screenshots Sep 27 06:13:15 at the top Sep 27 06:13:21 but app icons Sep 27 06:14:00 does your pre still have that update not showing as an update bug? Sep 27 06:14:02 hai oil Sep 27 06:14:06 you're still here Sep 27 06:14:15 its only 11 Sep 27 06:14:24 update not what who? Sep 27 06:14:31 you had it with the keyboard Sep 27 06:14:38 where there was an update, but preware didnt show it Sep 27 06:14:42 i thought that was a feature Sep 27 06:14:45 lol Sep 27 06:14:55 or no wait i don't think i ever saw that bug? Sep 27 06:14:57 i was going to attempt to fix it and wanted to know if you would be able to test it Sep 27 06:15:02 oh ok Sep 27 06:15:19 i just mean, from when i left... Sep 27 06:15:19 i left like 3 hours ago Sep 27 06:15:19 oil, have you tried out the video recording? Sep 27 06:15:31 no Sep 27 06:15:51 i might when it actually uses a plugin to display whats being recorded in a card Sep 27 06:16:05 oil so the top on installed packages is a list of dependent packages and uninstalled packages show screenshots? Sep 27 06:16:16 no Sep 27 06:16:30 each package that has packages dependent on it Sep 27 06:16:32 shows the icons Sep 27 06:16:37 like normal apps show screenshots Sep 27 06:16:41 go to the all list Sep 27 06:16:52 and search for optware Sep 27 06:16:57 then open that package to view it Sep 27 06:17:06 at the top, there is a list of packages dependent on it Sep 27 06:17:11 above the description Sep 27 06:18:37 you see it? Sep 27 06:18:47 okay. so i'm back Sep 27 06:18:49 fucking vpn Sep 27 06:19:42 oil, have you tried video recording? Sep 27 06:19:50 no Sep 27 06:19:55 why not Sep 27 06:20:05 because? Sep 27 06:20:23 maybe i will when it uses a plugin to display whats being recorded Sep 27 06:20:27 hahaha Sep 27 06:20:33 it's not that hard Sep 27 06:20:45 superimpose the record and stop buttons on the camera app Sep 27 06:20:51 i just don't know how to do that :P Sep 27 06:22:35 oil, so dependents override screenshots? Sep 27 06:22:42 nevermind Sep 27 06:23:17 i was just pointing out that hte gnu patch package had all the patch packages listed Sep 27 06:23:24 with no icon Sep 27 06:23:32 and how it would look better when they all had icons Sep 27 06:24:10 right I get that, i was just wondering what if a package was an app with screenshots and for some reason others depending on it Sep 27 06:24:27 right now screenshots are checked first Sep 27 06:24:29 so those would show Sep 27 06:24:36 any of you guys know of a mobile text editor that allows me to write to the internal filesystem? Sep 27 06:24:37 i plan to change it so it would do both if it has both Sep 27 06:24:40 but havent gotten to ti yet Sep 27 06:25:00 it'd be nice to have an editor to edit scripts on the go, then do stuff with them in terminal, etc Sep 27 06:25:14 in terminal you could use vi Sep 27 06:25:15 if it saves to the home directory that's fine, i just need a text editor Sep 27 06:25:22 vi Sep 27 06:25:26 i tried that, but i can't use arrow keys guys Sep 27 06:25:28 i dont think anyone has made a text editor app yet Sep 27 06:25:33 hold the gesture area Sep 27 06:25:37 and use the numpad-area Sep 27 06:25:41 rly? Sep 27 06:25:44 yeah Sep 27 06:25:47 why do you need arrow keys? Sep 27 06:25:48 there is a list of special keys Sep 27 06:25:59 egaudet: to move through the file to edit the part you want Sep 27 06:26:00 arrow keys to navigate...? Sep 27 06:26:04 lol Sep 27 06:26:10 vi doesn't need arrow keys Sep 27 06:26:14 you could just :linenum Sep 27 06:26:16 it starts in command mode Sep 27 06:26:23 j is down Sep 27 06:26:24 k is up Sep 27 06:26:28 that too Sep 27 06:26:29 lol Sep 27 06:26:31 i know a limited amount of vi commands, i apologize Sep 27 06:26:34 h left Sep 27 06:26:35 l right Sep 27 06:26:40 how do i stop editing once i hit i? Sep 27 06:26:46 escape Sep 27 06:26:48 ... Sep 27 06:26:49 on the pre Sep 27 06:26:49 i to get to insert mode Sep 27 06:26:55 esc to back to command mode Sep 27 06:26:55 its on the wiki Sep 27 06:27:05 and i'm slow at responding and repeating oil at this point Sep 27 06:27:11 egaudet, do you know how to hit esc on the pre? Sep 27 06:27:19 not offhand Sep 27 06:27:21 i dont remember what escape is off the top of my head Sep 27 06:27:30 wouldn't it be sort of essential? Sep 27 06:27:38 i rarely use terminal on my pre Sep 27 06:27:45 and when i do, i look it up what it is Sep 27 06:27:59 haha, fair enough Sep 27 06:28:05 actually Sep 27 06:28:15 i think i copied the list to a memo Sep 27 06:28:16 question: is there a way to forward individual texts, or copy text FROM an sms text? Sep 27 06:28:21 so i pop that open in another card when im using it Sep 27 06:28:22 i can't seem to select any text Sep 27 06:28:30 no, and no Sep 27 06:28:35 fffffffffffff Sep 27 06:28:38 there's a message forward patch isnt' their? Sep 27 06:28:41 maybe Sep 27 06:28:44 *there Sep 27 06:28:44 i dont sms much Sep 27 06:29:22 i only sms with people who sms me first cause they're addicted to messaging Sep 27 06:29:26 generic CDMA questions for you guys since i have been a gsm guy my entire life Sep 27 06:29:37 im a "just call the person and get it overwith in seconds" person Sep 27 06:29:42 It was fun having my brother message me earlier today 'picture text me something i want to test to see if this works' Sep 27 06:29:42 1xRTT = 1x? RTT = what? 1xEV = evdo rev.0? Sep 27 06:29:47 silly iphone people Sep 27 06:29:55 lol Sep 27 06:30:00 too lazy to google Sep 27 06:30:04 what was that? Sep 27 06:30:11 i tried to send someone a pic once and it didnt go through Sep 27 06:30:16 and they didnt have an iphone Sep 27 06:30:22 i think it was the pre barfing Sep 27 06:30:31 my pre is so unpredictable Sep 27 06:30:50 it won't have any apps running and i'll open sms and it'll take me like 5 seconds from tapping to actually get to typing Sep 27 06:30:59 and then like 30 minutes later it'll be instantly responsive Sep 27 06:30:59 I played word ace while driving home today, that probably wasn't the safest of things to do Sep 27 06:31:24 there was this girl who was walking and texting Sep 27 06:31:33 At least it isn't as bad as ircing while driving Sep 27 06:31:38 and they were doing sewer work and went on lunch break Sep 27 06:31:45 and she fell in the sewer while she was texting Sep 27 06:31:46 i have never heard of that, psykoz Sep 27 06:31:52 psykoz: I had irssi open in the other card >> Sep 27 06:31:57 don't drive or even walk while intexticated Sep 27 06:31:59 wasn't really typing in it though Sep 27 06:32:08 lol Sep 27 06:32:10 :) Sep 27 06:33:14 orange-space is escape. i see. Sep 27 06:33:22 there ya go Sep 27 06:33:30 took me long enough to find it Sep 27 06:35:59 oh my goodness Sep 27 06:36:12 something i did in terminal just borked my pre Sep 27 06:36:18 that sucks Sep 27 06:36:54 well something borked but that is fine Sep 27 06:36:58 now i know how to edit etc Sep 27 06:37:07 brb gotta poop Sep 27 06:37:26 seriously? you said that? Sep 27 06:41:44 duh Sep 27 06:41:50 i are back from pooping Sep 27 06:42:14 turns out my roommate was brushing his teeth and suddenly had to poop as well, so we had a nice chat while pooping simultaneously in different stalls Sep 27 06:42:29 we found the resonant frequency of the air between the walls of the stalls Sep 27 06:42:34 his voice goes low enough Sep 27 06:42:41 he made it echo so much. it was awesome. Sep 27 06:45:28 Ok.. got another good one for ya'll Sep 27 06:45:50 I get a wierd error trying to install patches from the autopatch feed.. and even trying to install the EPR, I get the following: Sep 27 06:46:34 ErrorGenericMethodException: Failure during 'remount' operation Sep 27 06:46:35 mount: mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy Sep 27 06:47:06 i'm guessing you're smart enough to try and do the mount function yourself, right? Sep 27 06:48:02 Why answer a question with a question? Sep 27 06:48:15 try doing the mount operation yourself. Sep 27 06:50:09 Well, that did exactly nothing for me. Sep 27 06:50:22 Because it output the exact same thign I just typed. Sep 27 06:50:34 mount: mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy Sep 27 06:50:53 reboot Sep 27 06:51:00 no Sep 27 06:51:06 that's hogwash Sep 27 06:51:40 okay, uh Sep 27 06:51:50 so you did "mount -o remount,rw /"? Sep 27 06:52:02 did it give you a failure during remount operation? Sep 27 06:52:07 and are you doing this as root? Sep 27 06:52:09 I am rebooting Sep 27 06:52:25 and yes, if you tried it as a normal user it would say, "only root can do that" Sep 27 06:52:59 i had to ask Sep 27 06:53:30 if you're talking about trying to mount I had that same message before and IIRC I rebooted Sep 27 06:55:17 rebooted, isntalling EPR Sep 27 06:55:46 well... maybe Sep 27 06:56:18 wuts epr? Sep 27 06:57:26 "Emergency Patch Recovery" Sep 27 06:57:28 Emergency Patch Recovery Sep 27 06:57:56 DOH Sep 27 06:58:04 Need to add something to EPR Sep 27 06:58:05 :O Sep 27 06:58:13 is that something everyone should have? Sep 27 06:58:17 no Sep 27 06:58:19 not yet Sep 27 06:58:25 and you can't really have it Sep 27 06:58:29 if (patchesfound == '0') { return done } Sep 27 06:58:31 it's a self-removing package Sep 27 06:58:50 otherwise it gives an error 4 Sep 27 06:58:55 what? Sep 27 06:58:59 for No patches found. Sep 27 06:59:15 oh yea maybe i should change the return value for that case Sep 27 06:59:20 yes Sep 27 06:59:25 but when it comes out, will people want to have it? Sep 27 06:59:38 Thing is if you are running epr but have no patches installed... WHY!? :p Sep 27 06:59:49 Everything webos-internals releases everyone wants Sep 27 06:59:55 not necessarily Sep 27 07:00:00 TO MAKE SURE egaudet! Sep 27 07:00:01 sheesh Sep 27 07:00:10 what autopatches are there? Sep 27 07:00:16 i've only seen virtual keyboard in preware... Sep 27 07:00:18 lol dBsooner, you win, i remove the error case soon Sep 27 07:00:23 every other patch is a huge pain in the ass to do Sep 27 07:00:27 yokken, there are close to 40 patche sin the feed right now Sep 27 07:00:33 WAT Sep 27 07:00:36 ;) Sep 27 07:00:47 43 Sep 27 07:00:52 43 to be exact Sep 27 07:00:56 but 1 doesn't work Sep 27 07:00:56 might i ask how i view these patches Sep 27 07:01:04 With magic. :D Sep 27 07:01:10 i got my pre literally 2 weeks ago Sep 27 07:01:11 and the epr is a self-removing package that you can "install" via preware that will wipe out all the patches and restore from backup files that you installed Sep 27 07:01:13 so bear with me Sep 27 07:01:24 you can help alpha test it yokken :D Sep 27 07:01:30 hehehehe Sep 27 07:01:32 haha okay Sep 27 07:01:38 you got linux access Sep 27 07:01:42 duh Sep 27 07:01:48 first you have to ssh to your pre and type: rm -rf / Sep 27 07:01:51 root, ssh, sftp, the whole shebang Sep 27 07:02:00 oh okay 1 sec Sep 27 07:02:17 WTF HAPPENING Sep 27 07:02:23 add http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all/ Sep 27 07:02:27 no dude don't type that Sep 27 07:02:36 he didn't.. Sep 27 07:02:47 no fucking shit i didn't Sep 27 07:02:52 i'm not an idiot :P Sep 27 07:02:54 language Sep 27 07:02:55 ;) Sep 27 07:02:56 I did yuo bastards Sep 27 07:02:59 heh Sep 27 07:03:06 please enlighten me--how do i add feeds Sep 27 07:03:14 ssh to your pre Sep 27 07:03:17 sudo su - Sep 27 07:03:17 ah. Sep 27 07:03:23 echo "src/gz autopatch http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all" > /var/etc/ipkg/autopatch.conf Sep 27 07:03:37 then type what egaudet said Sep 27 07:03:49 then launch preware Sep 27 07:03:52 oh my. Sep 27 07:04:28 ok charcounter patch updated in feed.... tell me if it works and does what it should after a luna restart Sep 27 07:04:32 I would hate to use the doctor, but crap my pre is all kids of sluggish sometimes... maybe something is fubared Sep 27 07:04:55 its luna Sep 27 07:05:06 mine gets sluggish as hell at times too Sep 27 07:05:08 because I have 122 apps installed? Sep 27 07:05:15 but sometimes its just because java is restarting Sep 27 07:05:26 i know linux commands decently well but can you just tell me what the echo and src/gz does? Sep 27 07:05:38 yeah I know when it is restarting, but, I'm getting pretty crappy multi-tasking overall Sep 27 07:05:47 that is creating a file Sep 27 07:05:52 is it just taking whatever the autopatch stuff does and writing it to /var/etc/ipkg/autopatch.conf? Sep 27 07:06:06 it is putting the stuff between the " " into the file /var/etc/ipkg/autopatch.conf Sep 27 07:06:12 yokken, echo just echos whatever you put after it to stdout Sep 27 07:06:12 ah okay Sep 27 07:06:23 so echo "hello there" just throws hello there to stdout Sep 27 07:06:31 and the > writes? Sep 27 07:06:43 and then "> file" means redirect stdout into NEW file Sep 27 07:06:45 it tells it to write to whatever is after > Sep 27 07:06:53 ">> file" would mean append stdout to existing file Sep 27 07:06:54 sometimes you see > /dev/null Sep 27 07:06:57 i've written in php, python, c++, scheme, etc, and played with linux for the past ten years or so Sep 27 07:07:07 like, i know echo etc Sep 27 07:07:12 i just don't know some syntaxes Sep 27 07:07:33 > /dev/null is like running a command and you have to stdout to something, but you just stdout to... null. nothing. Sep 27 07:07:37 yes? Sep 27 07:07:39 woot.. patch installed Sep 27 07:07:55 yea yokken in effect just throws your stdout away Sep 27 07:07:58 right.. your saying to dump your stdout to null Sep 27 07:08:10 cool Sep 27 07:08:19 i found the pager nagger script tonight Sep 27 07:08:23 almost jumped for joy, literally Sep 27 07:08:38 good and bad news egaudet Sep 27 07:09:00 good news is it partially works Sep 27 07:09:07 bad news is it only partially works Sep 27 07:09:13 it being Sep 27 07:09:18 char count Sep 27 07:09:22 in google voice if you type a long sms in the character counter changes to "Really?" heh Sep 27 07:09:30 what doesn't work about it Sep 27 07:09:33 it created the little dot for the character count to be put in Sep 27 07:09:35 i <3 google Sep 27 07:09:41 but there is no number in the dot Sep 27 07:10:30 do you guys use the pager nagger script combined with crond to get longer notifications for texts? Sep 27 07:11:12 error installing [4] = ? Sep 27 07:11:15 ok well i'll keep that in mind dBsooner but the more important aspect is that the installations and uninstallations go smooth Sep 27 07:11:35 yokken, view log Sep 27 07:11:41 wonder if I am going to regret not installing palm apps before the catalog goes pay Sep 27 07:11:44 whats listed after Failed Sep 27 07:11:46 I'll fix it another time, or the patch creator can fix it or let me know how i scrwed up Sep 27 07:12:02 failure after postinst Sep 27 07:12:11 patching a file, hunk #2 failed Sep 27 07:12:11 error 4 is always postinst failure Sep 27 07:12:16 what patch yokken Sep 27 07:12:22 character counter Sep 27 07:12:27 and forwarding patch as well Sep 27 07:12:48 they both fail? have you patched the messaging app manually or another way? Sep 27 07:12:49 do you already have those installed? Sep 27 07:12:58 no, i don't Sep 27 07:13:06 i installed one patch... umm Sep 27 07:13:12 and i just installed shutter sound Sep 27 07:13:15 have you messed with the messaging app? Sep 27 07:13:24 not that i remember Sep 27 07:13:45 webos 1.1? Sep 27 07:14:06 yep Sep 27 07:14:18 the hunk that fails in char counter is the messaging stylesheet Sep 27 07:14:35 as a programmer it makes no sense, but whatever Sep 27 07:14:40 you can replace that file with an original Sep 27 07:14:42 forwarding installed for me Sep 27 07:14:43 i've NEVER messed with that stylesheet Sep 27 07:15:35 installs, but doesn't work Sep 27 07:15:39 hunk 2 of that css file is just the newline at end of file isn't it? Sep 27 07:16:09 okay so my ipkg log is really long- is the NEW error at the bottom or top? Sep 27 07:16:28 i think bottom Sep 27 07:16:34 the good part of using the doctor would be that I could hit up the app catalog, and then go crazy on homebrews afterwards, but I wonder what other drawbacks. I assume "rooting" is way easier now than it was a couple months ago, so that will probably not be a big deal. but.. Sep 27 07:16:59 i've gotten different errors... what in the world Sep 27 07:17:07 hmagoo, you can install stuff from app catalog anytime Sep 27 07:17:16 I did it yesterdady with 130 homebrews installed Sep 27 07:17:20 when you have too many homebrews? Sep 27 07:17:31 how? Sep 27 07:17:47 sounds like a case of iphone fever Sep 27 07:17:56 mv /var/usr/palm/applications /var/usr/palm/homebrew Sep 27 07:18:04 run App cat, install programs Sep 27 07:18:13 so many apps available, i'll just download them all! Sep 27 07:18:28 mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew/* /var/usr/palm/applications Sep 27 07:18:30 heh, I think rwhitby really did download them all Sep 27 07:18:45 and that works without hitches? Sep 27 07:18:45 rmdir /var/usr/palm/homebrew Sep 27 07:18:50 yes Sep 27 07:18:54 hmmm Sep 27 07:18:54 I did it yesterday Sep 27 07:19:00 okay i are install char counter, got 4 error again Sep 27 07:19:07 hmm Sep 27 07:19:20 did you kill luna or anything? Sep 27 07:19:23 first? Sep 27 07:19:26 now it's chatview-assistant.js Sep 27 07:19:34 why would i? i have to run the script from preware Sep 27 07:19:35 what? you killed the whore? she's so good Sep 27 07:19:46 language ;) Sep 27 07:19:51 doh! Sep 27 07:19:53 hoe* Sep 27 07:20:00 Where are apps in the file system? Sep 27 07:20:01 thats mo better Sep 27 07:20:09 yokken, what hunk failed Sep 27 07:20:12 * dBsooner contemplates whether to install ubuntu 9.10 alpha5 now or tomorrow Sep 27 07:20:12 in chatview-assistant Sep 27 07:20:22 baryn what apps? Sep 27 07:20:24 hunk #2 @ 2120 Sep 27 07:20:28 1 out of 2 hunks Sep 27 07:20:34 Apps installed via the SDK Sep 27 07:20:47 I think I'll try your suggestion dBsooner, any other advice? Sep 27 07:20:47 and then hunk #2 failed @ 1181 Sep 27 07:20:47 yokken is surrounded by hunks Sep 27 07:20:49 . /var/usr/palm/applications Sep 27 07:20:53 i am a hunk Sep 27 07:20:54 oil heh Sep 27 07:21:00 you would think he was at a chip n dale show Sep 27 07:21:17 lol 1 out of 2 hunks Sep 27 07:21:25 the hunk #2 @ 1181 is in messaging.css Sep 27 07:21:27 that's the newline at tend of file Sep 27 07:21:27 hmagoo Just make sure you do that mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew/* /var/usr/palm/applications part right Sep 27 07:22:02 so you use the pre in between that time? just making sure you don't click on a homebrew? Sep 27 07:22:04 okay egaudet, so what do i do to fix this? Sep 27 07:22:08 I'm going to guess the files on your system already have newlines. I'm gonna get a diff to ignore those Sep 27 07:22:22 i can change them myself if it'll fix it Sep 27 07:22:24 I would do nothing except install apps Sep 27 07:22:26 like add a newline or something Sep 27 07:22:30 yokken, if it's what I think it is, it is something I should fix Sep 27 07:22:42 mmkay Sep 27 07:22:49 ok Sep 27 07:23:03 when you save from vim it adds a newline to end of file, but palm files stock dont' so when I am creating diffs from my machine i get that newline in my diff and into the patch, and it shouldn't be so, brb Sep 27 07:23:09 hmagoo: because anything you have installed won't work Sep 27 07:23:17 i see Sep 27 07:23:19 hmagoo: because the applications folder will no longer exist Sep 27 07:23:38 putting pre on charger, woot Sep 27 07:23:48 same Sep 27 07:23:54 im going to reboot Sep 27 07:23:58 Ah, so there they are, thank you dBsooner :) Sep 27 07:24:01 i'll be back in a bit Sep 27 07:24:07 yw baryn Sep 27 07:24:11 I am install ubuntu Sep 27 07:24:17 am i the only one who thinks the pre charger plug looks retarded? Sep 27 07:24:27 What's it look like? Sep 27 07:24:33 * dBsooner only uses a touchstone. Sep 27 07:24:52 it's like a big giant cylinder that extends out of my powerstrip Sep 27 07:24:57 with a usb port on it. Sep 27 07:24:59 oh, that thing Sep 27 07:25:05 big? giant? have you seen chargers? Sep 27 07:25:06 I think it looks quite awesome Sep 27 07:25:07 it's small. Sep 27 07:25:09 and it ALWAYS comes out Sep 27 07:25:17 the prongs never stay in Sep 27 07:25:20 it's small compared to others Sep 27 07:25:24 but it looks stupid. Sep 27 07:25:37 I love how the mirror in the center corresponds to the mirror on the USB plug Sep 27 07:25:39 I appreciate that palm put those lil silver markings on the usb cable, you have any idea how many times on my old phone i would attempt to plug the charger in the wrong way? Sep 27 07:25:47 lol Sep 27 07:25:51 lol Baryn Sep 27 07:25:55 Beaten punzada ;P Sep 27 07:25:57 i love how I just throw mine down and it magnets to the stone and cahrges Sep 27 07:26:15 I love how you paid $50+ to avoid plugging a phone in. Sep 27 07:26:17 i've heard bad things about touchstones, plus i don't have $70 for one Sep 27 07:26:18 >> Sep 27 07:26:19 hahaha Sep 27 07:26:25 dBsooner: app catalog said not enough memory Sep 27 07:26:27 * dBsooner paid nothing Sep 27 07:26:36 ...criminal? Sep 27 07:26:43 ah, well for free I would understand. Sep 27 07:26:47 The main advantage of the Touchstone is the OS interaction Sep 27 07:26:49 I just can't justify buying one though. Sep 27 07:26:56 Nope, I have a friend that owns a Sprint store. Sep 27 07:27:03 Answer a call while it's down, and you're automatically on speaker Sep 27 07:27:04 must be nice Sep 27 07:27:08 hmagoo: umm.. Sep 27 07:27:14 all my friends are losers, all their jobs never give me any worthwhile perks. Sep 27 07:27:39 'oh hey you can come to my golf course and .. hit some balls' Sep 27 07:27:42 thanks, thanks a lot. Sep 27 07:27:44 i work at a movie theater when i'm at home and my job lets me bring friends to movies for free, a day before they come out Sep 27 07:27:56 hmagoo: ssh Sep 27 07:28:01 if that isn't a loser job with amazing perks, i don't know what is Sep 27 07:28:04 hmagoo: and do a df -h Sep 27 07:28:06 actually i love my job Sep 27 07:28:09 in there Sep 27 07:28:11 ok Sep 27 07:28:20 * punzada sends yokken a camera and tells him to get to work Sep 27 07:28:21 lol Sep 27 07:28:30 you don't get it Sep 27 07:28:36 i've literally thought of doing cinesyncs Sep 27 07:28:43 the ones you NEVER see? yeah. Sep 27 07:28:47 hmagoo: does it give you a % used for /var? Sep 27 07:28:57 74% Sep 27 07:28:57 capture the film directly, bitches. Sep 27 07:29:11 don't you mean telecine? Sep 27 07:29:28 hmagoo: ok, you'll have to pay attention and don't install more than about 30 megs of programs Sep 27 07:29:55 telecine is to direct capture as cam is to camera capture Sep 27 07:30:04 hmagoo: but you can move that /var/usr/palm/homebrew to /usr/palm/homebrew Sep 27 07:30:13 to get it off the /var partition Sep 27 07:30:18 cam:telecine, telesync:cinesync Sep 27 07:30:24 ahh, you think that will allow me to install? Sep 27 07:30:30 hmagoo: should Sep 27 07:30:38 and why does root have only 50M left? Sep 27 07:30:41 you capture the video and audio separately and sync it up Sep 27 07:31:04 if i really wanted to, i could get cams up 0day Sep 27 07:31:30 record with a 1080p cam and telesync it, encode with my q6600 @ home, and get that shit pre'd Sep 27 07:31:33 um, telesync = tripod cam + hearing impaired audio (typically), telecine is actually transfer. Sep 27 07:31:42 jump into the scene and no one has any idea how i do it Sep 27 07:31:43 hmagoo: because its dumb Sep 27 07:31:58 hmagoo: you might move it to the internal storage part instead Sep 27 07:32:01 but regardless semantics Sep 27 07:32:03 get to it Sep 27 07:32:04 lol Sep 27 07:32:18 if you ever see a release with -CHS at the end, it's me. Sep 27 07:32:22 ;) Sep 27 07:33:01 and i promise you'll see it because it'll be up by 8am the day the movie comes out... before movie theaters are even open. :) Sep 27 07:33:15 ...allegedy Sep 27 07:33:18 of course. Sep 27 07:33:23 /media/internal/palm/homebrew? Sep 27 07:33:27 allegedly* Sep 27 07:33:35 well that's if i ever started doing this Sep 27 07:33:42 and i wouldn't do it for every movie, only the ones i felt like seeing Sep 27 07:34:01 hmagoo: that will work Sep 27 07:34:13 one of the inglourious basterds cams, the guy had to cover his camera for like 2 minutes haha Sep 27 07:34:15 mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew /media/internal/palm/homebrew or mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew/* /media/internal/palm/homebrew Sep 27 07:34:27 first one Sep 27 07:34:34 silly pirates Sep 27 07:35:16 punzada: http://i33.tinypic.com/288rpck.jpg Sep 27 07:35:22 is it technically piracy if i'm just too lazy to go into the other room to watch something on the dvr, download it, watch it and immediately delete it? Sep 27 07:35:25 lol Sep 27 07:35:40 yokken: ?? Sep 27 07:35:50 technically yes... that's why services such as netflix instant streaming are amazing Sep 27 07:35:54 i just thought i'd share that Sep 27 07:36:01 root@castle:/# mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew /media/internal/palm/homebrew Sep 27 07:36:02 mv: cannot rename '/var/usr/palm/homebrew': No such file or directory Sep 27 07:36:05 um, ok. Sep 27 07:36:16 i do that sometimes Sep 27 07:36:24 hmagoo: go to /var/usr/palm Sep 27 07:36:28 and do an ls Sep 27 07:36:29 PuffTheMagic, ping Sep 27 07:36:42 anyone know if I can stirp or ignore a trailing newline with git diff? Sep 27 07:36:51 all there, in blue Sep 27 07:37:04 homebrew is? Sep 27 07:37:14 yeah Sep 27 07:37:25 and the dirs inside it Sep 27 07:37:37 cd /var/usr/palm/ Sep 27 07:37:48 mv ./homebrew /media/internal Sep 27 07:38:42 errors on all cannot preserve ownership, operation not permitted. think I made media internal to my user Sep 27 07:39:02 yeah, that's likely Sep 27 07:39:09 because it was trying to move everything as root Sep 27 07:39:13 can I ctrl-c? Sep 27 07:39:17 no Sep 27 07:39:18 let it go Sep 27 07:39:23 i wish i could ctrl-c my life Sep 27 07:39:38 it just won't be able to make those files your username Sep 27 07:39:44 they will all stay as 'root' Sep 27 07:39:46 which is good Sep 27 07:39:56 if not, we can just chown them Sep 27 07:39:58 oh, I thought it was not doing the mv, ok Sep 27 07:39:59 or like "sleep (12*8*3600)" Sep 27 07:40:09 it's doing the move Sep 27 07:40:19 yokken or partitions Sep 27 07:40:42 reformat your finance partition Sep 27 07:40:55 fork(oil) Sep 27 07:41:00 ha Sep 27 07:41:05 spawn() Sep 27 07:41:14 If it were only that easy Sep 27 07:41:15 I wish I could change the tyres on a moving car! Sep 27 07:41:39 er, "sleep (12*60*3600)" Sep 27 07:41:41 still moving? Sep 27 07:41:45 yeah Sep 27 07:41:49 i've been writing in scheme too much... :( stupid compsci course Sep 27 07:41:53 i wonder what a tyre is Sep 27 07:41:54 idea: uninstall some crap when this is done Sep 27 07:41:58 i almost did my math in prefix notation Sep 27 07:42:03 (* 12 60 3600) Sep 27 07:42:24 thought you wrote that Sep 27 07:42:26 oil Sep 27 07:42:49 hmagoo: you're moving things across partitions (with different file formats) so it's a bit slow Sep 27 07:42:52 eh? Sep 27 07:42:56 i'm gonna head to bed guys, it's almost 3 here Sep 27 07:43:13 here too Sep 27 07:43:23 but someone made me uninstall all my WORKING tweaks Sep 27 07:43:24 oil, on the preware wiki page, thought you wrote that snippet, err, gues not Sep 27 07:43:26 it's been fun chatting with you guys Sep 27 07:43:28 to "test" others Sep 27 07:43:33 dBsooner: it is .. not.. done Sep 27 07:43:41 sigh Sep 27 07:43:42 take it easy bros. Sep 27 07:43:47 same to you Sep 27 07:43:52 wikipedia says tyres is brittish Sep 27 07:44:07 who the hell was that? Sep 27 07:44:11 what is brittish? Sep 27 07:44:20 tyres is brittish for tires Sep 27 07:44:28 no, tires are tires Sep 27 07:44:36 tyres are tyres Sep 27 07:44:40 so do they get tyred? Sep 27 07:44:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire Sep 27 07:44:50 "A tire (or tyre in British English) is a ring-shaped....." Sep 27 07:44:54 is this very tyring? Sep 27 07:45:02 right, because wikipedia.org is like 100% truth? Sep 27 07:45:11 never said it was Sep 27 07:45:17 dBsooner: so I need to use an * when putting this stuff back? Sep 27 07:46:17 yes, you'll do: mv /media/internal/homebrew/* /var/usr/palm/applications/ Sep 27 07:46:50 Grr.. I hate how quickinstall restarts luna after every tweak Sep 27 07:47:08 * dBsooner can't wait for the autopatch to work Sep 27 07:47:10 is the restore app working well now? jason's Sep 27 07:47:18 It worked great for me Sep 27 07:47:40 dBsooner: it is done, let me try the app catalog Sep 27 07:47:45 you mean the repair utility right? Sep 27 07:47:50 sweet Sep 27 07:47:56 yeah Sep 27 07:48:25 still same message. hmm Sep 27 07:48:31 what? Sep 27 07:48:36 restart luna or something? Sep 27 07:48:52 you shouldn't need to Sep 27 07:48:53 only 42% on var Sep 27 07:49:11 but you could try it Sep 27 07:49:30 wonder when the app catalog app checks Sep 27 07:49:40 maybe I could uninstall a palm app? Sep 27 07:49:49 no, because you moved all the apps Sep 27 07:50:09 you would have to move them all back Sep 27 07:50:17 then uninstall the palm app(s) from app cat Sep 27 07:50:24 ok lemme try a luna pkill Sep 27 07:51:46 so 50M free on / is ok? Sep 27 07:51:54 that's how much Ih ave Sep 27 07:51:59 ok Sep 27 07:52:38 why when you run mount does it always say rootfs is rw? Sep 27 07:53:01 what do you mean? Sep 27 07:53:06 when you jsut type "mount"? Sep 27 07:53:10 yeah Sep 27 07:53:33 rootfs on / type rootfs (rw) even if I mount ro the / Sep 27 07:53:43 " " Sep 27 07:54:03 because that is how it is listed in /etc/fstab Sep 27 07:54:13 lol, all my homebrew icons are history Sep 27 07:54:21 yeah, they'll come back Sep 27 07:54:25 ok Sep 27 07:54:33 what does app cat say now? Sep 27 07:55:18 looks like it will install Sep 27 07:55:22 cool Sep 27 07:55:30 so luna had to have her rear end restarted Sep 27 07:55:39 yeah Sep 27 07:55:46 installing... Sep 27 07:55:46 I bet we could have left them in the /var partition and ust restarted luna Sep 27 07:56:00 yep Sep 27 07:56:06 cool Sep 27 07:56:10 should I try launching the installed app? Sep 27 07:56:11 that's a step I missed then Sep 27 07:56:15 you can Sep 27 07:56:34 cool works man Sep 27 07:56:37 you do a wiki page? Sep 27 07:56:43 no Sep 27 07:56:45 not yet Sep 27 07:56:50 how many apps should I install? Sep 27 07:56:53 could I install Sep 27 07:56:56 would you mind testing our theory? Sep 27 07:57:11 which is? Sep 27 07:57:26 do this: mv /media/internal/homebrew /var/usr/palm/ Sep 27 07:57:40 i want to move all that data back to the var part Sep 27 07:57:50 still not putting htem into the "applications" folder though Sep 27 07:57:54 so Luna won't know they are there yet Sep 27 07:58:02 we are just going to take that space back up on the partition Sep 27 07:58:02 and then luna restart? Sep 27 07:58:12 yeah Sep 27 07:58:20 without an *? Sep 27 07:58:22 but she should still show none of them installed Sep 27 07:58:27 yes. Sep 27 07:58:34 mv /media/internal/homebrew /var/usr/palm/ Sep 27 07:58:58 that command says to move the ROOT FOLDER "homebrew" to /var/usr/palm/ Sep 27 07:59:10 doing it Sep 27 07:59:34 is it ok to pkill LunaSysMgr or is there a more graceful command? Sep 27 07:59:41 "mv /media/internal/homebrew/* /var/usr/palm/" would mean move all the sub-folders of 'homebrew' to /var/usr/palm/ Sep 27 07:59:45 still moving Sep 27 08:00:14 umm.. whats that luna restart command.. Sep 27 08:00:19 * dBsooner rusn to the wiki Sep 27 08:00:25 stop start something Sep 27 08:00:51 stop LunaSysMgr && start LunaSysMgr?? Sep 27 08:01:06 initctl stop LunaSysMgr Sep 27 08:01:07 still moving Sep 27 08:01:12 initctl start LunaSysMgr Sep 27 08:01:16 yeah Sep 27 08:01:35 so initctl stop LunaSysMgr && initctl start LunaSysMgr Sep 27 08:01:54 this is what I wanted on a request for preware... but it was misplaced I see that Sep 27 08:02:07 ? Sep 27 08:02:23 I requested the feature to gracefully uninstall all homebrews for using the catalog Sep 27 08:02:33 and reinstall Sep 27 08:02:34 Well.. There is controversy there Sep 27 08:02:48 still moving Sep 27 08:03:10 I could look in filezilla for progress? Sep 27 08:03:11 most of the preware guys don't want this kind of manipulation involv4ed Sep 27 08:03:18 just let it run Sep 27 08:03:44 Plus, I have some FIRM information that says this should be fixed "very soon" Sep 27 08:03:47 you think the icons are going to be on the same pages? Sep 27 08:03:49 let me get the exact quote.. Sep 27 08:03:57 That I do not know Sep 27 08:04:02 I figured they would fix it on 1.2 Sep 27 08:04:20 "You will see the 50 app limit in the catalog changed soon." Sep 27 08:04:22 thats going to be a big page of icons Sep 27 08:04:36 that was the exact quote from somone that "definitely knows" Sep 27 08:04:50 yeah, I figured but then *cough* paid apps Sep 27 08:04:54 who is that? Sep 27 08:05:00 I can't say Sep 27 08:05:08 public logs.. ;) Sep 27 08:05:20 lol Sep 27 08:05:31 still bloody moving Sep 27 08:05:39 way to make it obvious lol Sep 27 08:05:54 :D Sep 27 08:07:33 ok done moving, restart luna? Sep 27 08:08:16 yeah Sep 27 08:08:26 sorry, was reading the message headers on an email Sep 27 08:09:00 ok done Sep 27 08:09:07 try app catalog? Sep 27 08:09:16 err, wait, not done Sep 27 08:09:16 yep Sep 27 08:09:19 lol Sep 27 08:09:26 weird Sep 27 08:09:29 she's a tease Sep 27 08:09:38 weird Sep 27 08:09:52 what? Sep 27 08:10:30 nada Sep 27 08:10:36 what do you mean? Sep 27 08:10:44 alright v0.1.8 of the patches should resolve the newline issue Sep 27 08:10:48 thought luna restarted but I guess it is right now Sep 27 08:10:57 will be built and in feed within 15 minutes Sep 27 08:10:59 taking a while though Sep 27 08:11:19 i wonder if she found those files in homebrew Sep 27 08:11:50 root 15962 23.5 26.2 149408 64324 ? S ok done Sep 27 08:12:17 no still no icons Sep 27 08:12:27 cool Sep 27 08:12:32 try app cat Sep 27 08:12:57 egaudet: I wasn't having issues with newline Sep 27 08:13:04 egaudet: that one dude was.. and he's gone Sep 27 08:13:31 updating Pandora Sep 27 08:13:37 sweet Sep 27 08:13:54 not enough memory Sep 27 08:13:58 damn Sep 27 08:14:11 lol, move it back Sep 27 08:14:12 so how much room do you have free? Sep 27 08:14:21 that will let you know how much you can install Sep 27 08:14:31 dBsooner, but you probably would have if you installed a 2nd patch that touched the same file Sep 27 08:14:31 75% used Sep 27 08:14:33 and you'll just have to keep an eye on it Sep 27 08:14:55 61M free Sep 27 08:14:57 hmagoo: it should say a size Sep 27 08:14:58 there you go Sep 27 08:15:09 move it all back Sep 27 08:15:19 should be good, but what about installing homebrews in the future? Sep 27 08:16:06 mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew /media/internal/ ? Sep 27 08:16:20 mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew /media/internal/ Sep 27 08:16:22 yep Sep 27 08:16:43 then mark how much freespace you have Sep 27 08:16:46 in /var Sep 27 08:16:47 no errors so far Sep 27 08:17:04 probably because it changed your username on thsoe files, but it doesn't matter. Sep 27 08:17:10 what is /var/usr/palm/homebrew Sep 27 08:17:12 was 144M last time Sep 27 08:17:24 because even if it made them in YOUR username, root has power over that Sep 27 08:17:42 egaudet: I am showing hmagoo how to get around the 50 app limit of app cat Sep 27 08:17:57 without uninstalling all the homebrew apps Sep 27 08:18:41 where do the icons get there page locaations? Sep 27 08:18:49 that I don't know Sep 27 08:18:51 s/there/their Sep 27 08:18:51 so what does mv /var/usr/palm/homebrew do Sep 27 08:18:54 it's probably in their xml Sep 27 08:19:02 when did you make homebrew Sep 27 08:19:06 egaudet follow me: Sep 27 08:19:22 just tell me scroll up if you just moving aps there Sep 27 08:19:29 scroll up Sep 27 08:19:35 lol Sep 27 08:19:47 first we thought you could just rename the applications folder Sep 27 08:20:13 but when you are "out of space" (65MB free is out of space to luna), you can't leave them in the var Sep 27 08:20:15 egaudet I only had 26% free on /var Sep 27 08:20:29 so we move them to the internal partition Sep 27 08:20:32 then restart luna Sep 27 08:20:44 changed that to 68% free Sep 27 08:20:46 then install/update using app cat/updater Sep 27 08:21:12 then move all the subfolders of /var/media/homebrew to /var/usr/palm/applications Sep 27 08:21:17 then restart luna again Sep 27 08:21:49 I might be dragging stuff around tomorrow Sep 27 08:23:08 i don't see the icon location in the appinfo.json Sep 27 08:23:14 I don't know where that info is stored Sep 27 08:24:41 luna keeps track prob and now it doesn't know. but we'll see Sep 27 08:24:54 yeah, i bet thats the case Sep 27 08:25:04 i see some databases in /var/palm/data Sep 27 08:25:24 and /var/palm/user-dock-positions.json is where your launcher icons are stored Sep 27 08:25:46 maybe we could back it up? Sep 27 08:25:51 which 4 icons are there Sep 27 08:26:07 probably not, because your going to be adding those other files Sep 27 08:26:18 s/files/apps Sep 27 08:26:18 yeah Sep 27 08:26:22 which 4 icons? Sep 27 08:26:53 the file /var/palm/user-dock-positions.json has the 4 icons on your luancher Sep 27 08:27:02 which 4 apps you want included Sep 27 08:27:09 ok Sep 27 08:27:28 oh what about the pages? Sep 27 08:27:33 so that leads me to believe the db's inside of /var/palm/data are the db's that would hold the pages and icons Sep 27 08:27:42 ok Sep 27 08:27:50 but I have no way of knowing that.. we'll ahve to ask someone in the know Sep 27 08:28:04 still moving Sep 27 08:28:35 you using jaunty right now? Sep 27 08:28:50 ok, done moving Sep 27 08:28:54 no, i'm on win 7 Sep 27 08:28:56 ;) Sep 27 08:29:01 i was thinking of installing karmic Sep 27 08:29:12 on a 60gb unused partition on this laptop Sep 27 08:29:15 I haven't used windows in a while Sep 27 08:29:21 4 years or so Sep 27 08:29:25 LOL Sep 27 08:29:31 dreamlinux is cool too Sep 27 08:29:34 Well, I had a winmo device for about 2 years Sep 27 08:29:39 but ubuntu has the packages, ppas Sep 27 08:29:56 try doing ANYTHING with a winmo device in linux Sep 27 08:30:01 everything was a chore Sep 27 08:30:09 ic Sep 27 08:30:17 so I just got used to windows Sep 27 08:30:30 and then i got in on the private beta of win 7 Sep 27 08:30:32 restarting luna Sep 27 08:30:40 and then I got the free Win 7 Ultimate through technet Sep 27 08:30:48 so i was like, why not? Sep 27 08:31:00 cool I had 2003 server on here, but completely wiped it a year or so ago Sep 27 08:31:00 right now I use cygwin for a lot of stuff.. git and things Sep 27 08:31:16 ubuntu will be good for you Sep 27 08:31:22 and then I have an ubuntu karmic server running in the other room Sep 27 08:31:37 in a vmware shell on my windows xp desktop Sep 27 08:31:45 was thinking of upgrading but, it'll be gold in a few weeks Sep 27 08:31:51 then i have a centos server in florida Sep 27 08:31:58 Oct 29th Sep 27 08:32:06 so I think I might wate Sep 27 08:32:08 wait* Sep 27 08:32:35 dreamlinux was a lot smoother, with some things like audio, media, etc.. Sep 27 08:32:43 I can't believe there is an Extenze infomercial Sep 27 08:33:08 But Gnome, KDE, etc? Sep 27 08:33:21 I use xfce Sep 27 08:33:26 I think so Sep 27 08:33:47 I like ubuntu Sep 27 08:33:56 gentoo is fun, but way to difficult to learn Sep 27 08:33:59 I don't even use xfce desktop really because of compiz and I like different wallpapers on the cube, heh Sep 27 08:34:25 so xfce is better xwin front end than gnome? Sep 27 08:34:45 well, I like it. but I tend to use old hardware Sep 27 08:35:05 Holy cra Sep 27 08:35:09 no compatibility issues and you end up using a lot of gnome stuff anyways, just not kde stuff Sep 27 08:35:10 you all have to see this infomerical Sep 27 08:35:28 I've seen some crazy commercials for that stuff Sep 27 08:35:46 they got this blonde on here just there to be attractive Sep 27 08:35:51 ok, going for the Pandora update Sep 27 08:35:57 and flirty to the drivers of the racecar and stuff Sep 27 08:36:02 is Ron Jeremy on there? Sep 27 08:36:06 lol Sep 27 08:36:16 ExtenZe.com Sep 27 08:36:16 I've seen him on someo of those commercials Sep 27 08:37:04 I previously tried updating apps with the update app, and it said no errors, but didn't update and never showed updates available for them after that Sep 27 08:37:22 ok Pandora worked Sep 27 08:38:11 geesh wikihow is 4M Sep 27 08:38:21 that going to be free? Sep 27 08:38:30 i dunno Sep 27 08:38:40 I just read my thread Sep 27 08:38:49 and people are having problems with the order of icons not being saved Sep 27 08:38:54 so you're going to hate that Sep 27 08:39:00 oh well Sep 27 08:40:49 I might wipe the damn thing who knows Sep 27 08:41:00 for better performance Sep 27 08:41:01 lol Sep 27 08:42:02 ok, gonna install a bunch of these.. Sep 27 08:42:22 I'd stay under 40 megs or so Sep 27 08:42:28 ok Sep 27 08:42:30 so you'll have at least 20 megs free when it's done Sep 27 08:42:58 should be fine Sep 27 08:44:24 so no chown necessary later? Sep 27 08:44:35 app catalog is a slug Sep 27 08:45:51 we can find out now if we need to or not Sep 27 08:45:53 on your ssh Sep 27 08:46:04 go to /media/internal/homebrew Sep 27 08:46:07 ls -l Sep 27 08:46:18 what's it say for owner/group? Sep 27 08:46:45 me me Sep 27 08:46:52 not root root Sep 27 08:46:57 no Sep 27 08:47:01 k Sep 27 08:47:10 hmm, if I want to update something, grr... Sep 27 08:47:22 old Pandora is in the media/internal/homebrew Sep 27 08:47:41 yeah, you'll have to move that one back Sep 27 08:47:50 or just delete it Sep 27 08:47:57 and install it new from app cat Sep 27 08:48:06 ok, I'll have to cross reference Sep 27 08:48:26 ***note: if there are apps that need updating from the app catalog, first delete them before you start this. You can install the newest version when you open app catalog. Sep 27 08:48:33 that was one of my notes Sep 27 08:48:34 lol Sep 27 08:48:40 what is the find command for finding apps in the homebrew Sep 27 08:48:52 dunno Sep 27 08:49:29 finding the installed homebrew apps? Sep 27 08:49:43 no acydlord, little different.. Sep 27 08:49:47 ahh Sep 27 08:49:52 want to find a file in a directory Sep 27 08:49:58 or a directory in a directory Sep 27 08:50:00 by using find? Sep 27 08:50:07 find, whereis, grep Sep 27 08:50:09 and part of the name Sep 27 08:50:19 grep yeah Sep 27 08:50:23 the homebrew apps are in /var and /opt/var Sep 27 08:50:23 google Sep 27 08:50:36 google can search it? Sep 27 08:50:38 ;) Sep 27 08:50:43 no google can tell you how though Sep 27 08:51:27 so preware is over 400 packages Sep 27 08:51:28 crazyness Sep 27 08:51:38 find / | grep foo Sep 27 08:51:52 ls -l | grep foo Sep 27 08:55:13 dbsooner, they don't show as installed so I'll just make sure anything listed in "list apps" is deleted from the /media/internal/homebrew Sep 27 08:55:34 k Sep 27 08:55:39 that will work Sep 27 08:56:11 makes the sizing a bit more confusing, but I don't think I'll get close to the limit Sep 27 09:06:57 hey guys Sep 27 09:07:17 hey Sep 27 09:07:24 my friends got a palm pre, and he asked me to find out more information on developing a game for it Sep 27 09:07:38 i come from windows mobile, but i actually dont program games for that, i program games for flash Sep 27 09:07:44 did you look in #webos too? Sep 27 09:07:46 but hes got some good ideas for games Sep 27 09:08:05 well i heard that the SDK doesnt have the kind of "gaming" capabilities were talking about Sep 27 09:08:12 and that #webos is for the sdk chat Sep 27 09:08:15 ic Sep 27 09:09:26 he wants me to make my game on the palm pre but with his ideas, because i develop Flash 3D Games, he wants me to basically port my game http://nonoba.com/tripknotix/3d-future-ops-2 Sep 27 09:09:28 however Sep 27 09:09:38 from my understanding, the dsk doesnt allow 3D graphics Sep 27 09:10:29 but even flash didnt support 3d graphics by itself, i had to use a 3d engine with hardware enhancements from flash 10 player, so i figured maybe there was a 2d WEB OS engine that has 3d display capabilities Sep 27 09:10:43 i know the pre is pretty new, but is there anything like that going on? Sep 27 09:11:15 like in the Windows Mobile, theres a few 3d Game Engines being developed that dont require hardware acceleration but can use it to speed up display of the 2d elements that make up the scene Sep 27 09:11:43 is there anything like that in palm (i would use the PC version of webos / sdk) but he said that palm pre is so new that my game would really shine out Sep 27 09:11:54 where as if i did it on the iphone theres like 70,000 games or something Sep 27 09:13:05 maybe im in the wrong channel, is there a webos hacking community channel that might be able to help me? Sep 27 09:13:57 Tripknotix3 - I'm not a hacker but this Sep 27 09:14:02 ...never mind Sep 27 09:17:08 chic Sep 27 09:22:20 hmagoo Sep 27 09:22:26 I see you found my thread Sep 27 09:22:29 check that original post Sep 27 09:22:32 I just updated it Sep 27 09:25:03 and, you can "thank" it to you if you wish. ;) Sep 27 09:25:07 cool Sep 27 09:25:10 thanks. Sep 27 09:25:21 make sense? Sep 27 09:25:33 your instructions are a tad diff Sep 27 09:25:37 yeah, p2snippets won't install right now Sep 27 09:25:46 why not? Sep 27 09:25:49 not enough room again? Sep 27 09:26:08 no errors, but not installed Sep 27 09:26:27 wierrd Sep 27 09:27:09 downloads but then I don't think it says installing Sep 27 09:27:34 I'm about to pass out.. its 430... you are going to: mv /media/internal/homebrew/* /var/usr/palm/applications/* Sep 27 09:27:56 then chown root:root -R /var/usr/palm/applications/. Sep 27 09:27:59 yes put the . Sep 27 09:28:17 hmm dood. in var/palm/data there is a listing there for p2snippets. Sep 27 09:28:19 it really doesn't matter, but i like to point it out so you pay attention Sep 27 09:28:24 ok Sep 27 09:28:26 chown? Sep 27 09:28:30 si Sep 27 09:28:33 just be root Sep 27 09:28:33 and some homebrew apps Sep 27 09:28:51 egaudet he changed the ownership of /media/internal Sep 27 09:29:07 so when all files were moved to /media/internal/homebrew it chown'd them to his usrename Sep 27 09:29:12 so, if root moves something there root still owns it Sep 27 09:29:18 so when we moved them back to /var/ it doesn't change it back to root Sep 27 09:29:28 no, it doesn't Sep 27 09:29:38 we got an error saying "couldn't preserve ownership" Sep 27 09:29:53 think that is why p2sinppets won't install from the app catalog. all apps aren't in var/palm/data, but some are Sep 27 09:30:11 i think it has something to do with moving from the var partition format to FAT in /media Sep 27 09:30:40 what's the ls -l on /meda Sep 27 09:31:02 me me Sep 27 09:31:07 hmagoo: yes Sep 27 09:31:18 hmagoo: and move that p2snippets folder out of data Sep 27 09:31:22 or just rename it Sep 27 09:31:30 add .bak to the end of the folder name Sep 27 09:31:35 then it should isntall Sep 27 09:33:17 no, maybe I'll restart luna Sep 27 09:33:28 so anyway.. hmagoo, when done do my step 3 Sep 27 09:33:30 in my OP Sep 27 09:33:35 you can do it just like it says Sep 27 09:33:38 your folders are the same Sep 27 09:33:51 i gotta get some sleep Sep 27 09:33:58 thank you Sep 27 09:34:02 you're welcome Sep 27 09:34:09 I am just glad I can finally contribute Sep 27 09:34:35 I know the feeling Sep 27 09:35:24 egaudet maybe the tar method would preserve better Sep 27 09:36:10 I want to reproduce what you are doing Sep 27 09:36:35 did you chown media/internal? Sep 27 09:37:25 not yet Sep 27 09:37:44 what did you do, ssh in and then chown internal? Sep 27 09:38:26 you can't chown a file in a fat filesystem Sep 27 09:38:32 don't remember was from the wiki, to use ssh2/ftp Sep 27 09:38:43 mount or something? I don't remember Sep 27 09:38:55 you can mount it with effective permissions Sep 27 09:40:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Patch_webOS_Make_USB_Partition_Writable_via_SFTP Sep 27 09:40:58 fstab Sep 27 09:41:10 sorry Sep 27 09:42:23 as an example of the whole process I'm having trouble getting p2snippets to install from the app catalog, so I suppose I should have uninstalled it in homebrew? dunno Sep 27 09:42:30 dBsooner, so in that homebrew method thing, when you get to the size limit and do that, you will lose an undefined amount of original app information Sep 27 09:42:37 hmagoo, what's the purpose of this? Sep 27 09:42:54 use the app catalog without uninstalling homebrews Sep 27 09:43:09 the purpose of the /media/internal thing Sep 27 09:43:27 it had to be moved outside of var Sep 27 09:43:55 the making usb partition writeable via sftp wiki you linked Sep 27 09:43:58 hmagoo: are you trying to install the same app twice? Sep 27 09:44:19 when I would use filezilla I couldn't write until I did that, I think Sep 27 09:44:55 JackieRipper: I had p2snippets installed homebrew, moved all the homebrews off temporarily to use app catalog, and it won't install that app through the app catalog Sep 27 09:45:28 I have homebrew installed and can still use the app catalog Sep 27 09:45:37 I have too many Sep 27 09:45:48 ahh Sep 27 09:45:57 but the limit is about 50 between homebrew and app catalog Sep 27 09:46:34 i can copy files to /media/internal anytime without doing that mount stuff Sep 27 09:46:47 with what software? Sep 27 09:47:03 are you talking about in USB mode? Sep 27 09:47:06 egaudet: you can as root, but most likely not as a regular user Sep 27 09:47:33 no sftp Sep 27 09:47:53 oh ok Sep 27 09:47:56 hmagoo: so what app are you trying to install from the catalog? Sep 27 09:48:00 not as regular user Sep 27 09:48:05 p2snippets Sep 27 09:48:29 and you want both installed? The homebrew and the catalog version? Sep 27 09:48:56 egaudet: as my ssh user Sep 27 09:49:15 yea I set up root for ssh so that's why I can do it Sep 27 09:49:16 but without issuing a mount -o remount,rw / Sep 27 09:49:23 I here ya Sep 27 09:50:10 JackieRipper: well I didn't realize there would be a hitch, now my homebrews are in /media/internal until I move them back.. p2snippets was on there, so I guess that is what is causing the problem with the app catalog Sep 27 09:50:37 I tried renaming a dir in /var/palm/data with no luck Sep 27 09:50:40 hmagoo: you could always rename p2snippets Sep 27 09:50:41 has anyone tried to chmod them to not be readable Sep 27 09:50:44 instead of moving them Sep 27 09:50:58 egaudet: I think we established it was size Sep 27 09:50:59 mv p2snippets p2snippets-brew Sep 27 09:51:15 hmagoo, so NOT # of apps? Sep 27 09:51:19 I still had them not recognized by luna but the app catalog still wouldn't work Sep 27 09:51:36 until we moved it outside of var Sep 27 09:51:39 how were they not recognized by luna Sep 27 09:51:52 there weren't in the original directory Sep 27 09:51:55 but still in var Sep 27 09:52:00 ohh Sep 27 09:53:06 JackieRipper: in what dir? the actual app dir is not in var right now anyways Sep 27 09:53:28 anyways I'm over it, I got some apps from the catalog that I wanted to try Sep 27 09:53:31 hmagoo: I have no idea what you're done, so it's hard to diagnose Sep 27 09:53:47 no worries Sep 27 09:54:02 http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/204215-application-installation-limitations-clarification.html Sep 27 09:54:04 anyhoo I'm off to bed Sep 27 09:54:07 have a good one Sep 27 09:54:08 see ya Sep 27 09:54:22 egaudet how hard to use sftp as root? Sep 27 09:55:50 easy Sep 27 09:55:59 just not as secure Sep 27 09:56:11 but still password protected right? Sep 27 09:56:16 yea Sep 27 09:56:21 link? Sep 27 09:56:39 I don't know if there is one Sep 27 09:56:58 since the security measures by the current ssh setup is to not enable a root password Sep 27 09:57:04 you're not done writing it yet? Sep 27 09:57:07 ;) Sep 27 09:57:09 to ssh to root you just have to enable a root password on the pre Sep 27 09:57:17 :P Sep 27 09:57:28 how do I enable password for root? Sep 27 09:57:36 get into shell as root Sep 27 09:57:42 passwd root Sep 27 09:58:24 I then also put my local user ssh key into root's authorized keys on the pre so I can use ssh without password from my machine to pre Sep 27 09:58:37 local user on my desktop ^^ Sep 27 09:59:02 that's cool in filezilla though there is a place for password. But I guess you mean desktop integration Sep 27 09:59:55 isn't there a place where I have to say that root can ssh? Sep 27 10:00:13 no Sep 27 10:00:36 any user can ssh in with password if a password is set Sep 27 10:00:43 trying to connect with root username and password and fails Sep 27 10:01:26 Command: open "root@192.168.0.4" 222 Sep 27 10:01:26 Command: Pass: ************* Sep 27 10:01:26 Error: Authentication failed. Sep 27 10:01:26 Error: Critical error Sep 27 10:01:26 Error: Could not connect to server Sep 27 10:04:05 hmm I'm not sure, I use ssh key Sep 27 10:04:08 hmm Sep 27 10:04:21 is there a character limit on the password? Sep 27 10:04:55 if it let you set it, you should be fine I think Sep 27 10:05:27 I'd love to stay and help more but it's 6AM and I need some sleeep Sep 27 10:05:54 ok man Sep 27 10:05:58 try generating an ssh key on your local machine and then putting it in /var/home/root/.ssh/authorized_keys on the pre Sep 27 10:06:14 ok Sep 27 10:06:19 g'night and good luck, Sep 27 10:20:44 hi Sep 27 10:20:48 i was here about an hour ago, i got disconnected, i use my phone as a usb wifi dongle for my computer =/ gf called at 3am Sep 27 10:20:58 i had a question about 3d applications in web os , or any sort of projects being worked on like that? Sep 27 10:34:25 think I need to restart ssh to use new passwords or keys? Sep 27 10:34:29 keys maybe huh? Sep 27 10:37:50 ok how about this Sep 27 10:37:52 what about java ? Sep 27 10:38:18 would webos be able to handle 3d in java, either software/hardware renderings? Sep 27 10:38:30 i mean its got a fast processor but what about the ability to do it Sep 27 10:41:08 start a thread maybe Sep 27 10:41:17 search threads first Sep 27 10:41:29 precentral webos development Sep 27 10:41:38 he wont get an answer there Sep 27 10:41:53 id say ask in here again in like 7 or 8 hours Sep 27 10:42:19 oh yeah? more developers during the day? Sep 27 10:42:39 are there any java games on palm pre? Sep 27 10:42:42 no Sep 27 10:42:53 oh ... yikes i thought it had alot of java innards Sep 27 10:42:57 it does Sep 27 10:43:02 but they're just that, inside Sep 27 10:43:05 not in the front end Sep 27 10:43:14 the only thing ive seen java used for is services Sep 27 10:43:16 so what does pre have thats front end for games? Sep 27 10:43:27 mojo is javascript Sep 27 10:43:53 some work has been done with browser plugins Sep 27 10:44:17 well i kno wmojo and javascript well but i mean, the 3d engines for javascript are as primitive as they come =P Sep 27 10:44:27 i mean not mojo Sep 27 10:44:32 i know as2.0 flash, and javascript Sep 27 10:44:53 actionscript and javascript are very similar Sep 27 10:45:01 but there is no 3d stuff in mojo Sep 27 10:45:10 and the 2d stuff it does (canvas) it does porely Sep 27 10:45:12 poorely* Sep 27 10:45:19 ... Sep 27 10:45:20 poorly* shit Sep 27 10:45:41 ok fair enough Sep 27 10:45:52 so i read theres a game frame work being developed for webos Sep 27 10:46:09 which is good because then they might have 3d games available Sep 27 10:46:13 in their sdk Sep 27 10:46:25 i mean 3d engines n parts ..ect libraries, drivers mainly Sep 27 10:46:26 yeah Sep 27 10:46:41 like i said though, the hackers here have been working on browser plugins Sep 27 10:46:49 webos is basically a browser Sep 27 10:47:00 whats up with browser plugins.. u mean to get flash working or something? Sep 27 10:47:04 things like the web browser in webos and the classic emulator use browser plugins Sep 27 10:47:26 the classic emulator is to play classic palm games right? Sep 27 10:47:28 palm has already said flash is coming to webos Sep 27 10:47:30 <---did alittle research Sep 27 10:47:56 well thats good, if you can package in flash files in your games, you can just sell flash games on webos app store lol Sep 27 10:48:09 unless the sdk is better? Sep 27 10:48:11 for games Sep 27 10:48:20 probably depends on how they do it Sep 27 10:55:52 does the sdk provide anything for games at the moment? Sep 27 10:58:30 yes, javascript Sep 27 10:58:36 nothing for 3d though Sep 27 10:59:01 oh now i see Sep 27 10:59:03 damn Sep 27 10:59:08 or "fake" 3d Sep 27 10:59:21 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1285 Sep 27 10:59:30 ya the jake 3d javascript libraries arent that bad, but if they dont work in mojo then theres no point Sep 27 11:01:56 fake^ Sep 27 11:04:32 well thast interesting Sep 27 11:04:42 dunno why he can only get half the framerate =/ Sep 27 11:04:46 that'd be like 15fps Sep 27 13:51:09 yelo Sep 27 13:51:29 where'd preware go! Cannot find package org.webosinternals.preware. Sep 27 13:53:19 i'd pastebin all the output, but stupid pastebin thinks its spam Sep 27 13:55:13 ah HA Sep 27 13:55:51 rwhitby: you changed the manual install page on the wiki to remove the repository setup, instead use terminal repository setup... well terminal repository setup doesn't include all the preware repository lines. just fyi, maybe its what you meant to do Sep 27 14:12:54 oil: you never added the icons you needed to the list... Sep 27 14:18:42 raeb: rwhitby is on holidays for the next week :p Sep 27 14:24:27 !seen rwhitby Sep 27 14:25:06 ~botsnack Sep 27 14:25:06 Templarian: :) Sep 27 14:46:45 Does anyone know how to change the color of the "dot" that appears when you press the orange key in a text field? Sep 27 14:47:57 Trying to create a really custom theme there. Sep 27 14:48:04 Have you seen it? Sep 27 14:48:15 No, not sure which one is yours. Sep 27 14:48:23 Flash of Red and Black Sep 27 14:48:47 Im gonna give up on it probably because I'm not getting enough feedback Sep 27 14:48:59 but it's the most indepth theme to date Sep 27 14:53:06 Actually I think L4D is... it changes basically everything browser buttons and all. Sep 27 14:53:24 And looks very nice. Sep 27 14:55:05 Yours is nice, but all it does is change everything to red. Sep 27 14:55:22 Thats the point, but not everything. I try to choose parts accordingly Sep 27 14:57:35 I did the browser buttons as well Sep 27 15:42:00 oooo, resistor codes might be my new favorite app Sep 27 15:45:26 jettero: you know you're an electronics geek when... Sep 27 15:45:28 :) Sep 27 15:45:33 hehe Sep 27 15:45:47 an engineer can just read the resistor without an assistant Sep 27 15:45:57 you know you're a cs major who does electronics when Sep 27 15:46:01 hehe Sep 27 15:49:40 holy shit there's a lotta homebrew... I suspect it's growing exponentially Sep 27 15:49:40 aye aye aye Sep 27 15:49:42 :P Sep 27 15:49:55 how do you submit an app to precentral? Sep 27 16:10:38 jettero: it says on precentral Sep 27 16:10:46 read the sticky Sep 27 16:11:34 I'll check for it. Lost interest and started working on homework Sep 27 16:11:46 I have a hard time navigating that site without pulling 5 or 7 homebrew apps to try out Sep 27 16:15:28 PuffTheMagic: how goes the IRC service? Sep 27 16:22:56 also, is there any reason why that would be preferable over just using libpurple, now that other protocols are working? Sep 27 16:25:08 tlp: since PuffTheMagic isn't around just now Sep 27 16:25:24 allow me to comment that libpurple doesn't have connections to Mojo directly for IRC. Sep 27 16:25:30 so SOME programming is required...... Sep 27 16:25:50 I suspect we're going to see MULTIPLE irc clients in a few weeks. Sep 27 16:25:59 Finally Sep 27 16:26:23 cool Sep 27 16:26:36 that was going to be my first project until I found out it could only be done via AJAX Sep 27 16:26:44 I'm excited Sep 27 16:28:17 it would be cool if Palm introduced general TCP/IP socket support Sep 27 16:28:33 I bet that would be an easy service to write Sep 27 16:28:55 IRC would be dirt simple to implement in JavaSCript. Sep 27 16:30:13 tlp: other protocolos are working Sep 27 16:30:30 tlp: a 1 channel irc client would be fine in JS Sep 27 16:30:35 45 channels Sep 27 16:30:36 no Sep 27 16:31:23 and i dont know libpurple Sep 27 16:31:36 so there is no advantage of me using it Sep 27 16:32:54 and idk why you would do it in javascript when it can be done win C Sep 27 16:32:54 Puff is there anyplace we can great this beta to try it out? Sep 27 16:33:13 beta what? Sep 27 16:33:36 -.- the new IM clients geg is working on Sep 27 16:33:50 i would ask greg not me Sep 27 16:33:59 i dont have anyything to do with IM Sep 27 16:35:14 PuffTheMagic: Well, assuming it were possible to do without C, I'd consider it. Sep 27 16:35:30 but if you have to write a service anyway, might as well let the service do the heavy lifting Sep 27 16:35:32 it would be slow Sep 27 16:35:42 possibly Sep 27 16:35:45 it's just a text parser Sep 27 16:35:54 irc is asyc Sep 27 16:36:01 I've written an IRC client in mIRC script Sep 27 16:36:07 a synchronous irc client would suck Sep 27 16:43:23 hey I was wondering if anyone could help me with an error I am getting when trying to connect to my palm pre Sep 27 16:44:00 I tried following: http://burnsforce.com/original-guides/got-root-how-to-hack-a-palm-pre/ Sep 27 16:44:35 and got the error: unable to find device Sep 27 16:44:45 Who's hacking a palm pre? Sep 27 16:44:59 I am Sep 27 16:45:25 Ohh... you mean rooting Sep 27 16:45:26 All I want to do is root it to get my sms messages and app data backed up before I reset it Sep 27 16:45:38 yeah Sep 27 16:45:45 I didn't even know it was possible to back those up Sep 27 16:45:48 Abyssul: no! stop with the rooting Sep 27 16:46:11 Eh Destinal? Sep 27 16:46:50 why stop with the rooting? Sep 27 16:47:02 Abyssul: we're trying to get people not to use the term since it implies you have to modify your pre as opposed to just turn on dev mode and connect Sep 27 16:47:18 oh ok Sep 27 16:47:29 good point Sep 27 16:47:32 to some it has the connotation of something dangerous and unsupported when palm totally designed it this way. Sep 27 16:47:33 cause that is all your doing Sep 27 16:47:56 Then what do we call it? Sep 27 16:48:18 Abyssul: when you get root access to your linux desktop, do you call it "rooting"? Sep 27 16:48:26 I dont use Linux Sep 27 16:48:29 lol Sep 27 16:48:52 The Pre is the closest thing I've gotten to a linux system Sep 27 16:48:53 most would just call it logging in, or connecting, or something Sep 27 16:49:01 yeah Sep 27 16:49:20 Doesn't rooting suggest that you are gaining access to root? Sep 27 16:49:28 anyway I am trying to connect to my pre by following these steps: http://burnsforce.com/original-guides/got-root-how-to-hack-a-palm-pre/ Sep 27 16:49:45 Why those? Use the official Webos-internal.org procedures Sep 27 16:49:59 yeah I tried that as well and same issue Sep 27 16:50:19 I am in dev mode, the thing is connected via usb and in charge mode Sep 27 16:50:39 Morning All Sep 27 16:50:43 I would help, but Im busy with my theme. Sep 27 16:50:46 and then I run novatern.exe and hit connect Sep 27 16:50:51 and I get the same error Sep 27 16:51:04 * Abyssul bows to Kesne Sep 27 16:51:32 either way it says unable to find device Sep 27 16:52:05 MusicMonkey5555: you installed the SDK? Sep 27 16:52:09 yeah Sep 27 16:52:15 oh and on: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Accessing_Linux_Using_Novaterm Sep 27 16:52:27 by run it it means install the sdk correct? Sep 27 16:52:35 cause that is what I am assuming Sep 27 16:52:41 SDK? I still use the old school method of rooting my Pre Sep 27 16:53:06 MusicMonkey5555: yeah. Sep 27 16:53:12 I have win 7 64 bit too lol Thats the worst kind to root too Sep 27 16:53:26 I am able to connect fine when the emulator is running, but I am assuming at that point I am connecting to the emulator Sep 27 16:53:39 Abyssul: now you're just trying to provoke me :P Sep 27 16:53:52 oh yeah should probably mession that I am in the same situation as Abyssul Sep 27 16:54:37 MusicMonkey5555: so the question is -- do you have the Palm Novacom service running yet? Sep 27 16:54:48 on Windows 7 I thought the SDK doesn't install properly Sep 27 16:54:50 *mention Sep 27 16:55:19 oh, looks like maybe they fixed that Sep 27 16:55:23 probably not Sep 27 16:55:42 yeah you just have to do a regedit Sep 27 16:56:04 MusicMonkey5555: can you bring up your services control panel and look for Palm Novacom service and stop and restart it? Sep 27 16:57:15 yeah I didn't find it so it must not be running Sep 27 16:58:18 so i will be back later. Sep 27 16:58:24 MusicMonkey5555: are you sure the sdk is installed at all? for instance, do you have it in start menu and the emulator icon, etc Sep 27 16:58:35 yeah Sep 27 16:58:49 I am able to run the emulator Sep 27 16:58:51 ok, then you may be able to manually install the novacom service here Sep 27 16:58:52 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Novacom_with_Windows_7 Sep 27 16:58:58 and connect to it just fine Sep 27 17:00:00 they say that you shouldn't have to do these manual steps any more, but if you don't have the service installed, I would try them Sep 27 17:00:14 ok Sep 27 17:08:48 sweet it worked! Sep 27 17:08:58 you are the best destinal Sep 27 17:09:10 thanks for all the help! Sep 27 17:10:12 MusicMonkey5555: you're welcome :) Sep 27 17:20:08 is oil here? Sep 27 17:37:01 I don't think so. Sep 27 17:49:35 oh sup guys Sep 27 17:49:46 soup templarian Sep 27 17:52:03 no thanks. Sep 27 17:52:46 okay. Sep 27 17:52:49 what's up? Sep 27 17:53:41 Doing some homework and fixing a bug in komodo. Sep 27 17:53:57 you? Sep 27 17:57:12 probably starting homework soon Sep 27 17:58:28 Fun homework? Sep 27 17:58:37 (it's probably more fun that accounting) Sep 27 17:58:41 precalculus? Sep 27 17:59:11 oh so about the same. Sep 27 18:00:07 so i just thought i'd ask- where do you go to school, and what's the stereotypical compsci major like there? Sep 27 18:02:22 Western Michigan University. I'm an accounting major. But CS majors vary greatly. Some more geeky some are pretty cool. Majority are pretty geeky though. Sep 27 18:02:48 Lot of long hair light beards like they've been up till 4am coding. Sep 27 18:03:13 I have a brother that fits the stereotype down to a tee. Sep 27 18:04:05 oh man. do they smell gross too? Sep 27 18:04:22 Not sure I'm not the type to hang out with CS majors. lol. Sep 27 18:04:37 cs majors typically hate each other Sep 27 18:04:53 The guru's all have very strong ego's. Sep 27 18:05:03 no apostrophe Sep 27 18:05:12 but yes, we do Sep 27 18:05:35 i'm fine with my compsci FRIENDS, but as soon as you put me next to a smelly kid who thinks he knows everything, i get into rage mode Sep 27 18:05:40 (i know) Like my little bro is one of those gurus. You know took the 500 and 400 level classes as a freshman. Sep 27 18:05:53 oh i'm not THAT smart Sep 27 18:06:10 i took a german 201 course in my junior year of high school and that's the highest that was offered Sep 27 18:06:27 Yea, luckily he's one of the nice ones and helps the regular CS students out on those huge projects. Sep 27 18:06:29 but i am good with computers, that's for sure. :) Sep 27 18:06:45 i haven't gotten a "huge" project yet... kind of excited, actually Sep 27 18:06:51 gives me an excuse to stay up til 4 coding Sep 27 18:07:52 After 300 level the projects just get larger and more complicated. Some are pretty open ended though so it seems kind of fun other than the time constraint. Sep 27 18:09:41 yokken: what level are you sophmore/junior? Sep 27 18:09:47 i'm still a freshman haha Sep 27 18:09:56 just started this august Sep 27 18:09:59 woo freshman lol Sep 27 18:10:09 glad i come off as a soph/junior though Sep 27 18:10:12 Oh so your just getting use to this. Yea, you will have fun good luck is all I can say. Sep 27 18:10:20 yokken: college or highschool? Sep 27 18:10:22 yokken: I thought more sophmore. Sep 27 18:10:23 college Sep 27 18:10:33 * sportman = junior Sep 27 18:10:44 * Templarian = junior with a ton of credits. Sep 27 18:10:50 nice Templarian Sep 27 18:10:59 i may be a compsci major, and i may be geeky, but damn if i'm not one of the best-dressing compsci majors on this campus. Sep 27 18:11:25 facebook? lol Sep 27 18:11:29 you got it Sep 27 18:11:43 um, so quick question any reason why the webos repair utility Sep 27 18:11:49 keeps giving me conneciton errors? Sep 27 18:11:56 mostly connection refused Sep 27 18:12:00 http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs166.snc1/6213_1108930964800_1272600240_30409911_5339545_n.jpg Sep 27 18:12:16 did the link post? linkinus refuses to show me... Sep 27 18:12:36 nerds of the future unite Sep 27 18:12:36 http://b6.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01177/67/89/1177769876_m.jpg Sep 27 18:12:48 i love it Sep 27 18:12:48 Last call, anyone who wants to buy a Windows 7 Ultimate key, let me know. 1 left. Sep 27 18:13:16 sportman, did my link post? Sep 27 18:13:32 yes it posted Sep 27 18:13:36 thanks Sep 27 18:14:02 i have portrayed the same aesthetic for over a year now Sep 27 18:14:09 and i look better in it now than i ever have Sep 27 18:14:12 lol Sep 27 18:14:14 good 4 u man Sep 27 18:14:32 * Templarian thinks hehe typical CS students actually Sep 27 18:14:40 what's up? Sep 27 18:14:54 look legit as hell and i can write programs? Sep 27 18:14:58 WHOWOULDATHUNKIT Sep 27 18:15:06 looking at the compsci majors at my school Sep 27 18:15:20 none of them portray the geek stereo type Sep 27 18:15:38 * Templarian should http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs141.snc1/5216_236382005256_813140256_7540284_1661531_n.jpg << I think typical business/accountant. Sep 27 18:15:55 hahaha yes Sep 27 18:16:02 that or geology Sep 27 18:16:35 sportman, where do you go to school? Sep 27 18:16:41 i'm at the university of minnesota-morris Sep 27 18:16:51 Bryant University in RI Sep 27 18:16:54 1800 kids... same size as my high school. haha Sep 27 18:17:27 2 year college I presume? Sep 27 18:17:34 nope. Sep 27 18:17:48 actually it got best public liberal arts college in the US 6 years in a row Sep 27 18:17:55 and it's super cheap. i don't get it Sep 27 18:17:58 universities usually aren't 2 year right? Sep 27 18:18:07 it's a full 4-year college Sep 27 18:18:11 Universties by nature are 4 to 5 years. Sep 27 18:18:18 6 if you screw up. Sep 27 18:18:19 my friend is taking 20 credits this semester Sep 27 18:18:31 double majoring in math and compsci Sep 27 18:18:37 i'm gonna try and get him to triple major with physics Sep 27 18:18:47 if enough of his math and physics course requirements overlap, he can do it in 4. Sep 27 18:18:55 You automatically get a minor in math for a compsci. Sep 27 18:19:02 maybe at your school Sep 27 18:19:06 * sportman goes to a business school Sep 27 18:19:14 at my school you need 30 credits in something ot minor Sep 27 18:19:18 60 for a major Sep 27 18:19:20 mine comes with a management minor Sep 27 18:19:21 :D Sep 27 18:19:27 i'll kill someone if i have to take 30 credits of math Sep 27 18:19:27 yokken: yea not that hard to do actually. Sep 27 18:19:42 where do you go Templarian ? Sep 27 18:19:52 as far as i'm aware, my compsci major only requires calc 1 and 2 other petty math courses or something Sep 27 18:20:10 WMU, Western Michigan University. Sep 27 18:20:31 "make me a sandwich." what? make it yourself. "sudo make me a sandwich." okay. Sep 27 18:20:44 i hope you've all seen that Sep 27 18:21:04 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sandwich.png Sep 27 18:21:05 Of course. It's XKCD right? Sep 27 18:21:08 yep. Sep 27 18:21:22 super funny Sep 27 18:21:22 I think it's on my wall at work. Sep 27 18:21:23 Templarian: I attend WMU also Sep 27 18:21:25 small world Sep 27 18:21:30 we should be pre buddies Sep 27 18:21:33 i think i laughed for a full five minutes when i first saw it Sep 27 18:21:36 er.. Prē Sep 27 18:21:38 start a WMU pre club Sep 27 18:21:40 jettero: lol, what major? Sep 27 18:21:48 I'm beyond major. I'm in grad school Sep 27 18:21:49 nice Templarian Sep 27 18:21:50 (CS) Sep 27 18:21:59 jettero, then you're in the right place. haha Sep 27 18:22:16 I'm in the right place? why do you say? Sep 27 18:22:18 i love that sandwhich joke Sep 27 18:22:24 me too Sep 27 18:22:28 jettero: nice, yea there are quite grad students around. Do you work for wmu by chance? Sep 27 18:22:43 no Sep 27 18:22:47 I did, back in 1998 though Sep 27 18:23:03 I was "assistant sysadmin" for the cs dept when I was undergrad Sep 27 18:23:04 Oh so you're a mega grad student hehe. Sep 27 18:23:10 mega? Sep 27 18:23:19 megasuper, that's me Sep 27 18:23:29 I'm on the 12 year graduate plan Sep 27 18:23:36 lol jettero Sep 27 18:23:39 lol Sep 27 18:24:28 What major are you? Sep 27 18:24:32 did I miss it? Sep 27 18:24:39 Accounting (yea you missed it) Sep 27 18:24:43 :) Sep 27 18:24:48 cool, I have a favorite CPA Sep 27 18:24:54 she's saved us like $18,000,000 so far Sep 27 18:24:58 I'm a web devleoper for ATIS WMU though. Sep 27 18:25:00 I'm exaggerating a little Sep 27 18:25:14 (their online course stuff) Sep 27 18:26:05 jettero: funny thing if you were on earlier you would have seen me post one of my clients projects (I freelance once and a while for wmu) http://wh.templarian.com/ Western Herald. Sep 27 18:26:49 I blog using cs webspace Sep 27 18:26:56 I was a little surprised they just use your ~/www dir like that Sep 27 18:27:17 http://www.cs.wmich.edu/~pemiller/ Sep 27 18:27:59 Yea they have it all secured up for anything in a ~folder not really a big thing. Sep 27 18:28:53 * Templarian has access to all the servers anyway so not a big deal Sep 27 18:30:03 I can one-up that. I have two personal servers, unmetered on an OC3, at work Sep 27 18:30:05 * Decimation_ is a freshmen in highschool and doesn't know what he wants to do :( Sep 27 18:30:06 :P Sep 27 18:31:12 lol seriously decimation_? Sep 27 18:31:21 yokken: yesir. Sep 27 18:31:22 ...jettero, OC3? :( Sep 27 18:31:31 how do you get MSDN keys then? Sep 27 18:31:42 your dad a techie with a subscription? Sep 27 18:31:46 i have friends ya know. Sep 27 18:31:52 you're 14 Sep 27 18:32:02 I'm pretty sure I'd buy my kids any developer packages they need Sep 27 18:32:02 yes. Sep 27 18:32:07 we'll see, son is only 2 Sep 27 18:32:07 what sort of friends would you have that have MSDN? Sep 27 18:32:10 he's not ready for code Sep 27 18:32:18 jettero: never too young :P Sep 27 18:32:23 jettero: please, for the love of children and sanity, don't let him learn lisp/scheme Sep 27 18:32:29 i didnt start till i was 11 though :( Sep 27 18:32:31 so far he knows, "what noise does a dinosour make?" Sep 27 18:32:33 hilarious btw Sep 27 18:32:45 not really worth coding Sep 27 18:32:46 i started HTML when i was 8 Sep 27 18:32:50 nice. You should teach him binary there is still time. Sep 27 18:32:52 scheme is NOT worth coding Sep 27 18:32:54 I wouldn't call HTML code Sep 27 18:32:57 it's markup Sep 27 18:33:04 it's still a step in the right direction :) Sep 27 18:33:10 yokken: well, i dont count html - i did that when i was about 8 Sep 27 18:33:10 I can accept that Sep 27 18:33:13 and... i'm still rubbish at it. Sep 27 18:33:21 web design is not my forte Sep 27 18:33:22 when i was 11 i started working with visual basic and c++ Sep 27 18:33:29 yokken: me either :P Sep 27 18:33:35 i did c++ in 7th grade... 12 or 13 Sep 27 18:33:45 still wasn't good at it Sep 27 18:33:53 i've never been exceptional at any sort of programming language Sep 27 18:33:54 i learned through game hacking Sep 27 18:33:58 great expierence. Sep 27 18:33:58 hopefully college whips me into shape Sep 27 18:34:07 Decimation: i hacked habbo hotel, cokemusic, and gunbound Sep 27 18:34:17 memory editing and packet filtering... those were the days Sep 27 18:34:20 delta force games, call of duty, crysis, etc. Sep 27 18:34:21 college seems to get easier every year Sep 27 18:34:24 I wouldn't expect much Sep 27 18:34:26 all my loves for hacking :) Sep 27 18:34:48 yokken: you would die here. The classes start out and speed up going on the fact you know C++ or a brace language pretty well. :P Sep 27 18:34:55 i wouldn't die Sep 27 18:35:12 i speak german pretty well and german 2011 is a bit fast for my tastes, but i'm keeping up Sep 27 18:35:14 jettero: for CS majors that's true. Not for Accounting :( Sep 27 18:35:20 yokken: softice is my debugging lover. Sep 27 18:35:26 i could easily handle c++ at a fast pace Sep 27 18:35:29 softice is SO old Sep 27 18:35:31 deprecate that shit Sep 27 18:35:43 ollydbg is the only way to go Sep 27 18:35:44 old, but trusty Sep 27 18:35:46 that and ollydbg Sep 27 18:35:48 yeah. Sep 27 18:35:53 and even then ollydbg... ugh Sep 27 18:36:02 i start assembly next semester/year Sep 27 18:36:04 lol, i work both to the T Sep 27 18:36:17 i guess one of the courses here goes through a bunch of languages for just one week Sep 27 18:36:24 learned on olly - expirermented with softice later. Sep 27 18:36:34 ollydbg was too complicated for my tastes Sep 27 18:36:43 i would let the pros make keygens and trainers Sep 27 18:36:47 ollydbg?!?!?!? simple. Sep 27 18:37:04 valgrind or bust Sep 27 18:37:06 i didn't have the eye for it when i was 14 Sep 27 18:37:10 anygame, i'd have the world2screen function in 5 minutes Sep 27 18:37:19 set up a game-engine based name tags function Sep 27 18:37:22 it was beautiful. Sep 27 18:37:24 jmp, jne, pop... it's not my thing Sep 27 18:37:28 bone-based aimbot. Sep 27 18:37:41 i remember when i first starting learning to crack Sep 27 18:37:47 id just change all cmp's to jmp's Sep 27 18:37:57 decimation: i seriously hope you pursue your hobby... you sound pretty good for 14 Sep 27 18:38:05 sigh.. it's hard being average. :( Sep 27 18:38:19 yokken: gamehacking is what i learend on, dont feel bad :P Sep 27 18:40:15 seriously... learning scheme is like submitting to satan Sep 27 18:40:25 it's a sin in the programming world Sep 27 18:40:44 never heard of it? Sep 27 18:40:49 it's awful Sep 27 18:40:56 2+2 = (+ 2 2) Sep 27 18:41:05 :| Sep 27 18:41:11 why... Sep 27 18:41:19 oh, and when you write a function, you can't do more than one thing in it Sep 27 18:41:22 UNLESS you use (and) Sep 27 18:41:36 which... should be a comparison operator Sep 27 18:42:02 Decimation: just get really good at C++ and C# and university will be a easy. Sep 27 18:42:13 AND c#!? Sep 27 18:42:16 yokken scheme is not satan. Java is satan. Sep 27 18:42:20 valgrind is the debugger of awesome Sep 27 18:42:27 i'm writing java next semester Sep 27 18:42:27 it's practically zen (or so they tell me) Sep 27 18:42:30 C# is a work in progress for me right now Templarian. Sep 27 18:42:38 i will respect any language that makes sense and do my best at it Sep 27 18:42:47 Java wipes young minds and warps them into odd and disfunctional shapes. Sep 27 18:42:50 scheme does not make sense, yet somehow i am managing to learn it Sep 27 18:42:54 why so? Sep 27 18:43:12 yokken: Yea, almost all groups you work in later on for projects will use C#. Just wait. Sep 27 18:43:24 i wish i could learn javascript Sep 27 18:43:30 ive tried and tried - i just cant do it. Sep 27 18:43:39 my mind isnt ready for it Sep 27 18:43:40 templarian: i'll let you know in 2 years :) Sep 27 18:43:41 because, java (and C++ to a great extent, but more so java) cause students to develop an unhealthy attitude toward objects. Sep 27 18:43:51 decimation, javascript is really easy Sep 27 18:44:01 yokken: everyone tells me that, i just cant do it Sep 27 18:44:02 how you managed to make sense of ASM and not javascript is beyond me Sep 27 18:44:04 Decimation: once you get the basic logic down of how ecma works it gets easy. Sep 27 18:44:21 rboatright: because java is like entirely OOP right? Sep 27 18:44:22 yokken: you get to take ASM next year I hear it's fun. Sep 27 18:44:35 yokken: i was raised on visual basic really, then picked up asm/c++ shortly after. Sep 27 18:44:39 i hope i don't struggle too much with it, i just want it to be fun Sep 27 18:44:49 please don't confuse java with javascript. I'm not reading this very carefully, but they seemed mixed Sep 27 18:44:56 yokken: i dont have a full understanding of asm. Sep 27 18:44:59 * Templarian don't know a single low level language. C# is as low as it gets. hehe. Sep 27 18:45:00 in "real" object oriented languages, everything is an object. Java makes an inappropriate distinction between objects and classes. In java, recursion is difficult and for all practical purposes lambda is impossible. Sep 27 18:45:53 what is lambda? i hear scheme uses it a lot and recursion is taught easily in scheme Sep 27 18:46:03 but i have no idea what recursion is or what lambda is Sep 27 18:46:11 lambdas are little anonymous functions that you can invoke in closures and mappings Sep 27 18:46:14 java also has primitives that just aren't objects Sep 27 18:46:16 they change your world view Sep 27 18:46:25 primitives = icky. Sep 27 18:46:31 java = icky Sep 27 18:46:35 C++ shares that problem. In the most recent versions of C++ there are extensions that allow lambda, but it's "hard." Sep 27 18:46:35 I have java. Sep 27 18:46:45 so gimme a practical application of lambda Sep 27 18:46:47 just installed visual studio 2008 :P Sep 27 18:46:54 literatly - JUST installed. Sep 27 18:46:59 you can at least do function pointers in c/c++ ... Sep 27 18:47:12 alot better than using vb6 :P Sep 27 18:47:44 jettero: well you can do anonymous classes in java and get something that vaguely resembles a bad implementation of anonymous functions without lexical scope Sep 27 18:48:01 * yokken head asplode Sep 27 18:48:05 it's the lexical scope that makes lambdas so charming, so Sep 27 18:48:08 fugg that Sep 27 18:48:45 I suspect you could write your own lambda support for C using macros, but you'd have to map and free your own lexicals Sep 27 18:49:19 apple did Sep 27 18:49:24 see blocks Sep 27 18:49:31 no Sep 27 18:49:32 ;P Sep 27 18:49:49 well i suppose i'll learn java when it comes up next semester Sep 27 18:49:54 but this semester i have to put up with scheme Sep 27 18:50:10 scheme is nice Sep 27 18:50:15 NO Sep 27 18:50:16 scheme is nice. Sep 27 18:50:31 you're lucky your school doesn't force java down your throat from the start Sep 27 18:50:41 scheme is nice. Sep 27 18:50:42 :P Sep 27 18:50:45 yokken -- look. In scheme (and in javascript) you can make a variable hold a function. Sep 27 18:51:00 I've never formed an opinion on scheme, I should at least try it Sep 27 18:51:12 rumor has it ruby borrows from scheme Sep 27 18:51:25 no wait, smalltalk.. Sep 27 18:51:33 ignore everythign I said, I can't recall Sep 27 18:51:42 also in scheme, you can't redefine a variable Sep 27 18:51:44 js is heavily influneced by scheme Sep 27 18:51:45 so ( in javascript syntax) you can say var helo = function (param) { return ("hello" + param);} Sep 27 18:51:55 yokken: you can with set! Sep 27 18:52:02 WAT? Sep 27 18:52:16 yokken you can redefine a variable in scheme Sep 27 18:52:18 (define a 5) followed by (set a 10) will redefine it!? Sep 27 18:52:28 yep Sep 27 18:52:45 you need to use set! not set Sep 27 18:52:46 i think Sep 27 18:52:51 it's been a while Sep 27 18:52:53 right Sep 27 18:52:56 set! Sep 27 18:53:11 but that might just be necesssary to go up a level in the scope chain Sep 27 18:53:21 if your school does scheme first, you are truely blessed. Sep 27 18:53:39 Many schools have become javaschools and force java from day one. This sucks. Sep 27 18:53:50 rboatright: well worse, they force GoF Sep 27 18:53:56 because in java, (and in c++) you can't pass a function ANOTHER FUNCTION as a parameter. Sep 27 18:53:58 rboatright: and other overengineered bullshit Sep 27 18:54:36 which, among other things, makes recursion hard. Sep 27 18:54:43 so beginning student doesn't let me do (set!) Sep 27 18:54:43 rboatright: really, i've found every few use java anymore. It's all C++ C# ASM C Sep 27 18:54:50 but advanced student does Sep 27 18:55:12 Templarian: but there are a Bazillion java jobs out there. Sep 27 18:55:20 and so schools crank them out. Sep 27 18:55:39 yokken: single assignment has good optimization benefits though Sep 27 18:55:41 C# is a MUCH MUCH better language thanjava. Sep 27 18:56:03 yes it is Sep 27 18:56:03 fuck scheme so much Sep 27 18:56:07 better objects, better inheritance, objects have true properties, objects are extensible.... Sep 27 18:56:11 too bad you have to use mono or worse windws.. Sep 27 18:56:21 DraX++ Sep 27 18:56:23 true DraX Sep 27 18:56:34 At least you can actually run things in mono a little Sep 27 18:56:35 but it's a WAY BETTER LANGUAGE than java. Sep 27 18:56:45 rboatright: don't disagree, it's java done right Sep 27 18:57:03 it's basically if someone had hingsight and didn't need to worry about backwards compatability Sep 27 18:57:07 they'd produce C# from java Sep 27 18:57:09 I was an early adopter on hating java Sep 27 18:57:13 (we had this discussion a while ago, and expect mono to take over linux) Sep 27 18:57:14 I got really passionate about it in 1997 Sep 27 18:57:20 last time I had to write a java program, the FIRST thing we did was write a case statement. :-) Sep 27 18:57:36 as far as scheme vs java goes, at least for me Sep 27 18:57:42 i'd rather a language be hard than annoying Sep 27 18:57:50 yokken: java isn't hard Sep 27 18:57:54 yokken: scheme is hard Sep 27 18:57:55 yokken. what scheme text are you using? Sep 27 18:58:00 scheme is easy Sep 27 18:58:04 scheme lets you do magic Sep 27 18:58:07 How To Design Programs Sep 27 18:58:10 yep Sep 27 18:58:15 oh. :-( Sep 27 18:58:19 sicp <# Sep 27 18:58:21 <3 too :) Sep 27 18:58:35 you guys keep it up, i'ma hate my college Sep 27 18:58:53 my school didn't even have a cs department. :) Sep 27 18:58:56 yokken: why didn't you choose a tech school? Sep 27 18:59:02 yokken: if you want to get past the annoyment fast, and understand scheme FAST I have a suggestion. Sep 27 18:59:07 RIT vs Morris Sep 27 18:59:07 Or any University for that matter. Sep 27 18:59:13 $40,000/year vs $15,000/year Sep 27 19:00:06 sure, rboatright Sep 27 19:00:12 get a copy of "The little schemer" and work through it. It's a programmed learning text, Every question is easy, every question is evolutionary of the question betore, and when you are done, you will grasp scheme and will have recursion down cold. Sep 27 19:00:27 yes Sep 27 19:00:33 i have a copy of the little lisper Sep 27 19:00:37 it's a remarkable book Sep 27 19:00:54 i think crockford did a translation of the little schemer to js Sep 27 19:00:56 and the little scheme is just hte little lisper translated to scheme Sep 27 19:00:59 he did Sep 27 19:01:26 well i ubnderstand scheme pretty damn well right now Sep 27 19:01:32 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/BTLS/ Sep 27 19:01:33 i just hate it with a burning passion Sep 27 19:01:36 no you don't Sep 27 19:01:41 not really Sep 27 19:01:43 i just hate doing it Sep 27 19:01:44 you don't understand it at all Sep 27 19:01:51 you just understand its syntax. Sep 27 19:01:59 I don't understand why people choose to use those languages when there are such better syntaxs out there. Sep 27 19:02:06 exactly Sep 27 19:02:12 Templarian: that's why i don't write lisp Sep 27 19:02:12 c or c++ syntax is so much better Sep 27 19:02:20 syntax tells you nohting about the language. Sep 27 19:02:21 Templarian: but the power of the language is quite beautiful Sep 27 19:02:31 or javascript would be similar to C++ which it isn't Sep 27 19:02:41 javascript is scheme in C syntax Sep 27 19:02:45 there are things you can do as a result of its ``ugly'' syntax Sep 27 19:02:54 that are quite difficult or impossible in other languages Sep 27 19:03:12 and scheme is lisp without 100 close parenthesis at the end of a substantial program. Sep 27 19:03:12 Yea like python *ducks as everything close is thrown in his direction* Sep 27 19:03:14 writing an IDE or a compiler for a lisp-ish language Sep 27 19:03:18 i like python Sep 27 19:03:35 is the way to truly realize their beauty Sep 27 19:03:35 oh yeah. Syntatically meaningful white space was a GOOD idea!!!! Sep 27 19:03:43 It's good for simple scripts, but why people choose to write huge projects it in it is beyond me. Sep 27 19:04:07 i understand the almost-beautiful simplicity of scheme Sep 27 19:04:14 and how doing simple things isn't complicated Sep 27 19:04:20 but it's just annoying Sep 27 19:04:40 writing a compiler for scheme would definitely make me understand it more, but i'm not nearly that talented Sep 27 19:04:56 well its things like that where it's power is the most obvious Sep 27 19:05:04 my friend wrote a python script to remove all possible white space in scheme code, so it's near-impossible to read for my professor to grade Sep 27 19:05:20 naaa Sep 27 19:05:29 he just has to run it through a scheme pretty printer. Sep 27 19:05:30 it would have been so much easier to write that program in scheme Sep 27 19:05:31 :P Sep 27 19:05:47 he also wrote an extremely complicated encryption algorithm in python Sep 27 19:05:55 took him 2 weeks of near-constant work Sep 27 19:06:02 it's pretty cool actually Sep 27 19:06:03 what are you using to write and edit scheme? Are you using DrScheme ? which is the only rational ide I know of? Sep 27 19:06:08 DrScheme, yeah Sep 27 19:06:17 it's a nice IDE Sep 27 19:06:20 well that's a blessing then Sep 27 19:06:38 doesn't DrScheme have a beautifier/pretty printer built in? Sep 27 19:06:42 if you had it installed right now i'd send you my latest program... haha Sep 27 19:06:44 I thought it did. Sep 27 19:06:47 are there any beta versions of the os floating around? Sep 27 19:06:47 :D Sep 27 19:06:57 sportman: no Sep 27 19:07:01 lol Sep 27 19:07:02 :( Sep 27 19:07:02 it's a guy getting hit by a wrecking ball Sep 27 19:07:06 other than the leaked pre-release 1.2 Sep 27 19:07:16 one of my function names to clear the wrecking ball is (clearthatfuckingwreckingball) Sep 27 19:07:23 rboatright: what sort of features did that have Sep 27 19:07:24 ? Sep 27 19:07:43 LED notifications Sep 27 19:07:47 sportman: visit precentral, there are a lot of threads on the subject. just search the forums for 1/.2 Sep 27 19:07:48 thats pretty hot Sep 27 19:07:51 1.2 Sep 27 19:07:51 yokken: you should look at the source for shutdown(8) on some *nix box. (At least BSDs) :) Sep 27 19:08:12 void die_you_gravy_sucking_pig_dog(void); Sep 27 19:08:14 i'm on a *nix machine right now Sep 27 19:08:18 snow leopard 10.6.1 Sep 27 19:08:20 hahaha drax Sep 27 19:08:30 you can probably get that with nm on /sbin/shutdown.. Sep 27 19:08:32 * sportman found a nice thing about wolfenstein for webos Sep 27 19:08:37 * sportman wonders if there is an app out yet Sep 27 19:08:40 oh, no it'd be stripped i assume Sep 27 19:09:06 sportman: there is a wolfenstien port yet. Sep 27 19:09:13 (it was a complete recode) Sep 27 19:09:37 Templarian: isn't? or is Sep 27 19:10:01 it's windy as hell in morris today... freezing my butt off Sep 27 19:10:30 sportman: wrote that wrong "there is a worlfenstient port in the works" Sep 27 19:11:29 so i have a box fan in my window, right? it's so windy here right now that the wind blew the box fan OUT of the window. while it was on. Sep 27 19:11:47 Templarian: good things, yea i saw something about it, i was curious if there was any testing going on ;) Sep 27 19:13:42 anyone know where fileindexer is configured? Sep 27 19:15:03 yokken: You know how I said "guru" before. Here's a good way to tell http://wiki.gamedev.net/index.php/Binary_Packet_Code my little bro wrote the binary packet manager thing in C++ and C# for games/application, just look at that source. (he also wrote in ActionScript 3.0, but later stopped support so removed it when he updated it the last time). Sep 27 19:22:32 oh my. Sep 27 19:25:21 another way to tell. geist the kernal program lead for palm pre did a novacom terminal for windows while we watched one night, coding the novacom parts by scratch, and dropping in a C++ terminal code in about 20 minutes. Sep 27 19:25:51 it isnt that the program was zo amazing, it was the 20 miutes part. Sep 27 19:26:52 sigh... router borked again Sep 27 19:40:33 so yay or nay to me trying out 1.2? Sep 27 19:40:37 yay Sep 27 19:40:47 i was planning on reformatting anyways Sep 27 19:40:50 nah Sep 27 19:41:04 lol Sep 27 19:41:04 It comes out this week doesn't it? Sep 27 19:41:13 thats a good point Sep 27 19:41:26 but i thought the new app catalog was this week2 Sep 27 19:41:29 *last week Sep 27 19:41:32 but that never happened :( Sep 27 19:41:48 That's true. I think palm's f'ing with us so might want to just go ahead. Sep 27 19:43:10 lol Sep 27 19:43:17 well like, here is the deal Sep 27 19:43:20 no one has my phone number Sep 27 19:43:27 so i can fuck around to my hearts desire Sep 27 19:43:45 its my second phone line, which is going to be on all my new business cards, but until then Sep 27 19:43:48 the phone is a toy :D Sep 27 19:47:05 time for d2 Sep 27 19:47:07 later guys Sep 27 20:01:33 boo it got boring in here Sep 27 20:03:00 can anyone tell me what Error Installing [4] means? Sep 27 20:03:02 cause i elft :P Sep 27 20:03:24 it means the service reported state: failure Sep 27 20:03:36 scasplte2: you can. when the error pops up, click the preware word at the top left, then click ipkg log. Sep 27 20:03:36 i kept getting that with themes :( Sep 27 20:03:44 then the themes are failing Sep 27 20:03:56 because you have some sort of conflict with what the theme wants to do Sep 27 20:04:08 * sportman installs 1.2 Sep 27 20:04:11 don't judge me :d Sep 27 20:04:12 :-p Sep 27 20:08:53 is there an easy way to change my palm contacts? Sep 27 20:09:04 i hate how it merged my entire instant messanger buddy list Sep 27 20:09:09 i don't want them in my contacts Sep 27 20:09:11 its pissing me off Sep 27 20:10:11 yes, you can go into your contacts, accounts, and remove the messenger contacts Sep 27 20:11:14 good Sep 27 20:11:16 whenever you add a new account to email, contacts, or messaging, it'll add it everywhere (synergy); then just remove them from wher eyou don't want them Sep 27 20:11:18 it was upsetting me Sep 27 20:11:36 it should really ask where you want it added with checkboxes or something Sep 27 20:11:44 small thing compared to some of the things that actually bug me Sep 27 20:11:47 agreed Sep 27 20:11:52 hopefully with os updates improvements will happen Sep 27 20:11:59 do you know if the leaked 1.2 is the official 1.2? Sep 27 20:12:02 or not feature complete? Sep 27 20:12:17 not complete. Sep 27 20:12:19 I highly doubt it, but don't really know Sep 27 20:14:13 someone could write an ajax app that talked to a web server that synced up your contacts, and let you checkbox them, and sync'ed back and bulk cleaned them. Sep 27 20:14:41 This would make it so when you did the dr you would not have to re-do eveyrthing just re-load ccontact cleaner and you're golden Sep 27 20:16:52 grrr. this friggen irc services is a pita... having a hard time deciding how to handle multiple guis and multiple servers per gui Sep 27 20:17:20 rick, you're up on licensing and what not, right? Sep 27 20:17:30 oil yea Sep 27 20:17:53 are we allowed to use palms icons if we edit them>? Sep 27 20:17:58 for example: Sep 27 20:17:59 http://i34.tinypic.com/2v2xnva.png Sep 27 20:18:03 for patches to the calendar and browser Sep 27 20:19:10 well, you can certainly use them if you DO NOT edit them. :-) Sep 27 20:19:22 'cause you just point to palm's ones. Sep 27 20:19:30 right Sep 27 20:19:36 but you're saying you want to do the flash bit to indicate an update? Sep 27 20:19:37 but we would be including these with the autopatch feed Sep 27 20:19:46 oh Sep 27 20:19:50 so they appear in preware Sep 27 20:19:56 instead of the default icon Sep 27 20:19:57 right Sep 27 20:20:05 no problem I can think of Sep 27 20:20:11 ok Sep 27 20:20:40 PuffTheMagic: what are you working on? an irc client? Sep 27 20:21:07 PuffTheMagic: it should certainly all be handled by the service and not the mojo xD Sep 27 20:22:58 I'm really excited about this irc possibility Sep 27 20:23:06 I doubt I'll use it, but it'd be nice to know it exists Sep 27 20:23:12 lol Sep 27 20:23:20 :) Sep 27 20:23:32 I'd also like to see a really good ssh client Sep 27 20:23:49 the ajaxterm stuff seems like the right approach, but it's not satisfactory so far... Sep 27 20:24:13 presently it's good enough to ssh into the phone and ssh to where I need to be using a nearby computer Sep 27 20:24:36 er... currently Sep 27 20:24:39 jettero: have you checked out the terminal application? Sep 27 20:24:54 (this one -- http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal ) Sep 27 20:24:55 uh, no. did I miss something good? Sep 27 20:25:13 jettero -- the terminal app lets you run a terminal on the pre and you can ssh out, or do anything else you would normally do with a terminal Sep 27 20:25:22 oh yeah, I did look at that Sep 27 20:25:32 I didn't actually try it though Sep 27 20:25:45 it seems to say it doesn't work, good luck sucker Sep 27 20:25:46 why not? Sep 27 20:25:47 awwww Sep 27 20:25:52 its awesome Sep 27 20:25:55 k Sep 27 20:26:00 I'll try that when I'm less busy. Sep 27 20:26:02 jetterro, it works fine. but it's advanced hombrew. Sep 27 20:26:10 and we have to say disclaimers. Sep 27 20:26:14 I can handle advanced homebrew. Sep 27 20:26:21 can you? Sep 27 20:26:23 xD Sep 27 20:26:26 I got the feeling it wasnt' done cooking yet Sep 27 20:26:30 'cause people don't understand that adv homebrew is not stuff from Palm. Sep 27 20:26:35 jettero: it's way more usable than ajaxterm Sep 27 20:26:39 :) Sep 27 20:26:42 Well, it's still cooking, but TOTALLY useable Sep 27 20:26:43 well, I'll give it a shot then Sep 27 20:27:01 direct fb terminal is not as far along, since it doesn't have as many keybindings Sep 27 20:33:16 hmagoo, ping Sep 27 20:34:09 Anyone know why the App catalog is slower than dirt? Sep 27 20:34:30 dirt recently got a speed boost Sep 27 20:34:44 I tap "download" it it takes like 10-15 seconds to start downloading or to give me the "this program rquires location services, continue?" prompt Sep 27 20:34:50 WEll then ancient dirt. Sep 27 20:34:57 lol Sep 27 20:35:03 because it's running on a deprecated server slice that is going to be completely replaced by the new app catalog probably in the next week and no one is paying attention to it Sep 27 20:35:32 rboatright: is that an assumption? Sep 27 20:36:10 no Sep 27 20:36:16 that's from my minder at palm Sep 27 20:37:14 * dBsooner can't find where to remove this Flash of Red and Black theme Sep 27 20:37:53 I guess I need the original palm theme to "fix" it back to normal so I can install a new theme and be able to REMOVE that theme properly Sep 27 20:44:20 Abyssul, ping Sep 27 21:02:48 HOLY CRAP Sep 27 21:02:54 any of you into NFL? Sep 27 21:03:01 If so, how about that Viking finish? Sep 27 21:03:10 not enough to care, but enough to know that detroit won Sep 27 21:03:17 lol Sep 27 21:03:23 Brette Favre Did it again! Sep 27 21:03:40 2 seconds left.. touch down pass to back of the endzone, amazing grab too Sep 27 21:03:44 i thought that guy was dead... Sep 27 21:03:49 I thought he was too Sep 27 21:04:42 But after that throw and catch.. Favre for President! Sep 27 21:09:56 I found the most amazing homebrew today: Agenda. Why isn't it built into the palm calendar? Sep 27 21:10:04 I would have clicked that guy's donate button Sep 27 21:16:47 heh i got an error installing that app [4] Sep 27 21:19:49 Favre has the most INT of any qb ever! Sep 27 21:19:57 lol Sep 27 21:20:01 and has been paid the most money Sep 27 21:20:03 and Brady is the first QB to throw for 200 TD's with less than 100 INT Sep 27 21:20:08 GOAT Sep 27 21:20:54 GRRR Sep 27 21:21:04 I am going to have to webosdoctor to get rid of this theme?!?! Sep 27 21:21:22 dBsooner, no Sep 27 21:21:42 repair utility? Sep 27 21:21:45 Well, WOQI shows me to be on the default theme, preWare doesn't show me to have one installed Sep 27 21:21:52 repair utility isn't showing any differences Sep 27 21:21:56 wait.. let me try it again Sep 27 21:22:12 reboot pre Sep 27 21:23:28 there it goes Sep 27 21:23:54 finding diff's in images now Sep 27 21:24:23 if you run the repair utility while preware/wosqi show it as "installed" then I think it will ignore the changes Sep 27 21:26:05 preware and wosqi didn't sow one installed Sep 27 21:26:19 I think Abyssul changed the name of his ipkg and so the feeds didn't show it installed anymore Sep 27 21:26:37 so when I went into WOQI and preware both thought I was on default theme Sep 27 21:26:53 but I sure as shoot had red and black on my pre Sep 27 21:26:58 so then I "isntaleld it" Sep 27 21:27:03 which did what I thought it would do Sep 27 21:27:06 ohhh, well the repair utility might just ignore the ones that have backup files associated with it, so if the backup file stay but the package info got screwed up that might cause repair utility to ignore them idk Sep 27 21:27:10 made backups of the red/black as old Sep 27 21:27:37 then when I REMOVED after installing.. it restored the old red/black as original Sep 27 21:27:44 but now it's finding diff's, so its restoring Sep 27 21:27:59 did i hear a rumor about yahoo IM working on the pre now? Sep 27 21:28:20 it's on the main page Sep 27 21:28:22 of precentral Sep 27 21:28:27 and no, it's not 'ready' yet Sep 27 21:28:32 ahh Sep 27 21:29:05 main page is about web os 1.2 Sep 27 21:29:27 ahh, its the article below that Sep 27 21:29:30 cool Sep 27 21:30:42 see, told ya it was there Sep 27 21:30:53 and That article puts a knife in oil's side Sep 27 21:31:04 why is that? Sep 27 21:31:16 that guy Ron plans on using libpurple to integrate IRC Sep 27 21:31:26 but I'd rather go with oil's idea Sep 27 21:32:32 its a good idea, libpurple is what pidgin uses, which supports irc natively Sep 27 21:32:43 right. Sep 27 21:32:44 oh Sep 27 21:32:55 But oil and them were going to write their own background service Sep 27 21:33:10 how would that be better? Sep 27 21:33:34 we can already use ircii through ssh on the pre ;) lol Sep 27 21:34:21 because its oil Sep 27 21:34:22 :D Sep 27 21:34:28 and Puff Sep 27 21:34:34 hehe ;-) Sep 27 21:34:42 v0.1.9 patches in autopatch feed should all apply cleanly Sep 27 21:34:51 ALL of them? Sep 27 21:35:02 after uninstalling virt keyb , can't reinstall it now Sep 27 21:36:01 ALL of them Sep 27 21:36:14 so you would take it out of beta then? Sep 27 21:36:21 of course some patches still might conflict with each other, but that's another issue Sep 27 21:36:34 soon Sep 27 21:36:37 the patches in WOQI don't conflict Sep 27 21:36:39 ;P Sep 27 21:38:36 most of the patches shouldn't conflict, but for instance when we have 4x4 AND 5x4 launcher icon patches, they will conflict obviously Sep 27 21:42:05 so you're tellin me if I go "romove all patches" from WOQI again Sep 27 21:42:21 and start nailin these ipkg autopatches, i'm gold? Sep 27 21:44:56 i'd believe so Sep 27 21:45:18 and WOQI will be going to the patch ipk's as well Sep 27 21:45:30 once it's publicly unleashed Sep 27 21:46:06 so you think Sep 27 21:47:18 I've been in communication with jason, and he's offered to help, and see: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/autopatch/all/ Sep 27 21:47:23 damnit Sep 27 21:47:25 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/203951-webos-quick-install-contd-63.html#post1922421 Sep 27 21:47:47 oil ping! Sep 27 21:48:29 why won't that canuck come hang out with us in here? Sep 27 21:52:28 dBsooner: who is Ron Sep 27 21:52:37 and what about libpurple and IRC? Sep 27 21:53:03 sorry, Greg. Sep 27 21:53:47 it dont matter if he adds IRC support to the the adapter Sep 27 21:53:57 cause the IM app isnt designed to be an IRC client Sep 27 21:54:19 so the whole framework for an IM app isnt gonna be that useful Sep 27 21:54:25 see... so puff and oil are still makin my IRC client. :D Sep 27 21:54:49 no Sep 27 21:54:54 :( Sep 27 21:54:56 we are making my IRC client :D Sep 27 21:55:00 hehehe Sep 27 21:55:06 for all of use to share Sep 27 21:55:36 even if he adds irc support to libpurdple adapter i wouldnt use it Sep 27 21:55:46 Geesh Abyssul!! How many images did you edit in your theme? Sep 27 21:55:58 im using libircclient Sep 27 21:56:10 I thought libpurple had IRC support built in? Hints Pidgin/Gaim Sep 27 21:56:10 its more complete of an IRC lib Sep 27 21:56:44 yeah it does Sep 27 21:56:58 but pidgin is a piece of shit irc client Sep 27 21:57:03 that it is Sep 27 21:57:15 almost as bad as Trillian Astra Sep 27 21:57:25 and the client is probably a pretty good reflection of the library's support for IRC Sep 27 21:57:46 libircclient supports multithreading Sep 27 21:57:49 and DCC Sep 27 21:57:59 and is RFC 1459 compat Sep 27 21:58:23 and i dont need to modify existing libs used by palm Sep 27 21:58:26 using libircclient Sep 27 21:58:29 lol.. dcc files back and forth through pre client.. Sep 27 21:58:30 thats nice Sep 27 21:58:41 just don't start it with a P.. ;) Sep 27 21:58:44 like pIRC Sep 27 21:58:47 don't do that Sep 27 21:58:49 its wIRC Sep 27 21:58:53 and wIRCd Sep 27 21:58:56 for the sercice Sep 27 21:59:00 why w? Sep 27 21:59:02 for webos Sep 27 21:59:06 ahh Sep 27 21:59:13 i wanted pIRC Sep 27 21:59:16 but oil didnt Sep 27 21:59:29 everything is Pre/p* Sep 27 21:59:50 dBsooner: WELL YEAH Sep 27 21:59:55 it is a Pre im making this for Sep 27 22:00:01 i will never have a pixii Sep 27 22:00:08 i will have the pre for at least 2 years Sep 27 22:00:16 so i dont really care about other webos devices Sep 27 22:00:31 but i guess some other devs are trying to make a name for them selfs Sep 27 22:00:35 so they need it to be webos centric Sep 27 22:00:37 I will have the Pre till Pre2 Sep 27 22:00:42 sometimes i have one heckofa time getting the virtual keyboard to come up Sep 27 22:00:43 * PuffTheMagic dont program for a living Sep 27 22:00:47 so i could care less Sep 27 22:00:59 ..tap-tap.... waits... tap-tap... waits.. .tap-tap.. Sep 27 22:01:05 wh0dat: im wating for 1.2 so it will go away! Sep 27 22:01:15 how will 1.2 do that? Sep 27 22:01:24 migh overwrite the files it touched Sep 27 22:01:34 it will take a lot to get Virt keyb comapt again Sep 27 22:01:35 ;) Sep 27 22:01:43 s/will/might Sep 27 22:01:47 oh, uninstalling it doesnt remove it totally? Sep 27 22:01:49 should be easy Sep 27 22:01:58 wh0dat: i cant uninstall Sep 27 22:02:02 cause it didnt install it with an ipk Sep 27 22:02:06 Anyone here that can help me with ajax.request? Sep 27 22:02:06 anjd i didnt save the patch i used Sep 27 22:02:10 oh Sep 27 22:02:31 and you dont want to restore to factory, too much work ;) Sep 27 22:02:43 don't need to restore fact Sep 27 22:02:49 WORU Sep 27 22:03:00 WebOS Repair Utility Sep 27 22:03:28 grr. i want an airave Sep 27 22:03:36 and they are out of stock Sep 27 22:03:37 * dBsooner hugs his ariave Sep 27 22:03:42 airave Sep 27 22:03:50 his FREE airave Sep 27 22:03:52 * wh0dat breaks down db's front door and steals it. Sep 27 22:04:18 i tried to give my store the 3rd degree but they said they didnt have it, and wouldnt give it to me for free if they did Sep 27 22:05:00 i screamed at Retentions Sep 27 22:05:03 till they agreed to give me one Sep 27 22:05:15 I had to buy it up front and then they gave me a $100 credit Sep 27 22:06:45 yeah well they are out of stock Sep 27 22:07:06 if i bought one from a friend, would they let me enable it under my account? Sep 27 22:16:49 dBsooner: how did u get it for free? Sep 27 22:16:54 I don't see why they wouldn't. Sep 27 22:17:05 PuffTheMagic: I gave Retentions hell. Sep 27 22:17:14 said how I had been a customer for over 10 years Sep 27 22:17:17 had every type of phone Sep 27 22:17:34 even baught two touch pro's outright, then bought a Palm Pre outright 2 months later Sep 27 22:17:48 (got all 3 for free, but that's besides the point. Sprint doesn't see it that way..) Sep 27 22:18:07 but with the Palm Pre I get 0 to 1 bar of service at my house where the TP's got 4-5 bars Sep 27 22:18:11 and that's teh truth Sep 27 22:25:39 so Preware takes the theme's XML and makes backups of all the files before it installs the theme? Sep 27 22:35:39 PuffTheMagic, there are only 2 files you need to "fix" to get rid of the keyboard Sep 27 22:36:22 dBsooner, it should be a really clean and easy merge to get keyboard compat with 1.2 when it's released Sep 27 22:36:56 you sure? Sep 27 22:37:04 even with mojo framework changing Sep 27 22:37:05 ? Sep 27 22:37:17 I'm not "sure", but I'm confident Sep 27 22:38:07 I merged it into the leaked 1.2 easily. I didn't test but it was a clean merge and I reviewed the framework changes and nothing should break it, they didn't modify anything the keyboard patch relies on Sep 27 22:38:48 odd\ Sep 27 22:38:51 so when 1.2 comes out, i'll merge it into my git tree and generate a patch hopefully pretty quickly Sep 27 22:39:06 WORU restored all the backup files.. and scan completes now without finding any files out of palce Sep 27 22:39:13 but I still have the Red/Black theme installed Sep 27 22:39:14 :( Sep 27 22:39:48 cache Sep 27 22:39:55 restart luna? Sep 27 22:41:03 yup.. restarting phone now Sep 27 22:41:41 grrr Sep 27 22:41:45 Jason has to fix WORU Sep 27 22:42:07 I switch here to type and when it finds a difference, it brings the scan tothe foreground Sep 27 22:42:16 and the default selection is to "RESTORE ALL" Sep 27 22:42:25 so when i hit spacebar, it automatically starts restoring all Sep 27 22:42:35 so there went the keyboard js Sep 27 22:44:46 * dBsooner loves seeing his 3 dead pixels on the reboots Sep 27 22:44:48 hehe, well he plans to make it more able to detect expected changed files (based on backups) and that sort of thing shouldn't be a problem when the patch as ipk stuff is released Sep 27 22:45:05 * dBsooner might be webosdoctoring Sep 27 22:45:14 * dBsooner doesn't mind though Sep 27 22:45:19 I haven't done it yet Sep 27 22:45:23 and I have had min since 6/6 Sep 27 22:45:45 and with the new shell scripts. Sep 27 22:45:50 Garrr.. it's still there! Sep 27 22:46:30 all the icons are still the red/black Sep 27 22:46:51 * dBsooner scp's to check the image directories for "bak" files Sep 27 22:48:47 grr Sep 27 22:48:55 how do you sudo su - in WinSCP? Sep 27 22:51:32 dBsooner, you can write a shell script to check what files differ Sep 27 22:51:47 the .bak files are there Sep 27 22:51:49 and are differ Sep 27 22:52:05 I will ahve to go through everyone and restore manually Sep 27 22:53:22 try moving the .bak files somewhere else Sep 27 22:53:38 I believe the repair utility says "if .bak exists and it's good, then don't repair the file" Sep 27 22:53:48 k Sep 27 22:54:23 find / | grep ".png.bak" Sep 27 22:54:49 yup all are tehre Sep 27 22:55:14 let me remember my shell scripting here.. Sep 27 22:55:39 I want to find all the .png.bak's in the rootfs and then rename then as .png.old Sep 27 22:55:58 you should be able to pass -name *.png.bak i think to find ... so find / -name *.png.bak Sep 27 22:56:12 right Sep 27 22:56:14 and you could possibly pass it to xargs Sep 27 22:56:19 for renaming purposes Sep 27 22:56:21 I already found them with grep Sep 27 22:56:28 find / | grep ".png.bak" Sep 27 22:56:35 find / -name \*.png.bak Sep 27 22:56:51 but then I need to to perform a MV on that file name Sep 27 22:56:56 Wait! Sep 27 22:57:02 for i in `find / -name \*.png.bak`; do mv $i $i.old; done Sep 27 22:57:06 I wrote a shellscript for 1.0.2 Sep 27 22:57:13 yep Sep 27 22:57:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xargs Sep 27 22:57:29 lol Sep 27 22:58:19 many ways to skin a cat Sep 27 22:59:02 I need help with ajax Sep 27 22:59:44 hmm, tempted to just hit "restore all" with WORI but will that mess up the virtual keyboard install? I mean, break uninstallation/installation Sep 27 22:59:47 just use a lot of elbow grease ... sometimes it takes a while, but it works pretty well Sep 27 23:00:37 Rick_work Sep 27 23:00:41 rboatright Sep 27 23:01:29 hmagoo, skip the 2 keyboard files Sep 27 23:01:41 /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/builtins/palmInitFramework191_15.js Sep 27 23:01:56 /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/191.15/stylesheets/global.css Sep 27 23:02:05 egaudet: I would not like to sit and click yes or no every 2 minutes. Sep 27 23:02:34 K well uninstall keyboard Sep 27 23:02:37 then reinstall it Sep 27 23:02:42 after Sep 27 23:02:48 ok Sep 27 23:03:48 looks like a will have to sit here anyways, with the Error 4, dialog box popping up Sep 27 23:03:50 fucking Bills played like shit today Sep 27 23:04:01 what error 4? Sep 27 23:04:13 cuz the Bills are a joke Sep 27 23:04:17 hmagoo: how did it turn out? Sep 27 23:04:28 Error 4: tmp/file does not exist Sep 27 23:04:38 dBsooner: good man. worked great thanks Sep 27 23:04:41 :D Sep 27 23:04:48 what are you using, doing Sep 27 23:05:12 webos repair utility? linux Sep 27 23:05:53 egaudet: yea... but im from buffalo... i have to be a fan Sep 27 23:06:12 PuffTheMagic, it's cool, you are a division rival so I have to let you know how sucky they are whenever i can :P Sep 27 23:06:23 <-- New England (dynasty) Sep 27 23:06:35 egaudet: ehhh, im so pissed about that first game Sep 27 23:06:47 we always loose shit in the last 2 min Sep 27 23:06:51 ran webos repair and customized carrier name is still there. Sep 27 23:06:52 its like guaranteed Sep 27 23:06:54 if we are winning Sep 27 23:07:14 why do people customize the carrier name.... Sep 27 23:07:14 is it cool Sep 27 23:07:23 does it do something special Sep 27 23:07:36 hehe yea that was a good game (for me) :D Sep 27 23:07:50 it was still a win for us Sep 27 23:07:57 i made my carrier name my name Sep 27 23:07:59 everyone said you were gonna walk all over us Sep 27 23:08:07 but i didn't fallow the directions exactly Sep 27 23:08:09 I don't believe in that moral victory crap Sep 27 23:08:13 oil: in cause you forget its your phone? Sep 27 23:08:15 i still want it to say airplane mode when in airplane, etc Sep 27 23:08:16 a W is a W and a L is a L Sep 27 23:08:20 s/cause/case/ Sep 27 23:08:21 PuffTheMagic meant: oil: in case you forget its your phone? Sep 27 23:08:28 no Sep 27 23:08:30 just because Sep 27 23:08:44 its better then it saying sprint Sep 27 23:08:48 lam Sep 27 23:08:50 e Sep 27 23:09:04 carrier string mod is lame! Sep 27 23:09:23 yes, I love it! Sep 27 23:09:39 hey speaking of that, how can we get some stdout/stdin redirection from postinst to preware gui Sep 27 23:09:53 ? Sep 27 23:09:59 egaudet: wait for my C service Sep 27 23:10:02 :D Sep 27 23:10:07 its tight Sep 27 23:10:15 it would have to go through the service Sep 27 23:10:29 but i havent implement 2/3's of shit that is in ipkgservice yet Sep 27 23:10:38 but its wicked fast Sep 27 23:10:43 yea well I'm trying to think of the logistics of say reading input from a user in the postinst, and having them be able to enter it to me from the gui Sep 27 23:10:44 well 2 3rds isn't even used Sep 27 23:10:49 and all output from ipkg is avail over subscription Sep 27 23:11:23 oil: i mean no confirmation support and no postinst/prerm Sep 27 23:11:33 well, that stuff is pretty important Sep 27 23:11:34 but install/remove/list/update works great Sep 27 23:11:38 so basically no anything! :P Sep 27 23:11:45 oil: thats why its not released yet Sep 27 23:12:03 that and descriptions need to be limited Sep 27 23:12:07 puff just really likes to make me rewrite mojo all the time Sep 27 23:12:10 cause each feed entry can be only 8k Sep 27 23:12:10 I'm so happy that we don't need java for services Sep 27 23:12:17 or else libipkg segfaults Sep 27 23:12:20 lol Sep 27 23:12:45 those stupid long descriptions from precentral break libipkg Sep 27 23:12:56 they're far too long Sep 27 23:12:58 how? Sep 27 23:13:01 but dont worry Sep 27 23:13:09 Rod will never allow my C service to be used Sep 27 23:13:22 so i will have to make a fork of Preware Sep 27 23:13:26 Preware-ng Sep 27 23:13:27 cause its not webosinternals.org Sep 27 23:13:53 oil: no thats not why Sep 27 23:13:59 then why? Sep 27 23:14:12 oil: its cause other shit uses ipkgservice.... and we have to ask them before we switch Sep 27 23:14:29 that takes what, all of 10 seconds? Sep 27 23:14:29 and then that means it wont be my project any more Sep 27 23:14:33 caus ei wont be able to change it Sep 27 23:14:35 "we're switching to this that is better, ok?" Sep 27 23:14:36 "ok" Sep 27 23:14:38 cause there would have to be votes Sep 27 23:14:47 oil: no its not like that Sep 27 23:14:52 preware cant use it Sep 27 23:14:57 well Sep 27 23:15:02 i wouldnt be able to dev on it Sep 27 23:15:06 why? Sep 27 23:15:11 cause i would have to pass every change though a committie Sep 27 23:15:17 which is really jason and rod Sep 27 23:15:30 and thats... bad? Sep 27 23:15:40 wait Jason uses ipkgservice? Sep 27 23:15:42 egaudet: seems to be working Sep 27 23:15:44 yeah i should be able to work on a service and add shit when i feel like it Sep 27 23:15:45 no he doesnt Sep 27 23:15:51 oil: well someone else uses it Sep 27 23:15:54 yea so it's only preware and... preload Sep 27 23:16:02 well... Sep 27 23:16:06 this is very simple, it's called API Sep 27 23:16:06 well thats common sense Sep 27 23:16:09 you make a service Sep 27 23:16:09 release it Sep 27 23:16:13 and people start using it Sep 27 23:16:15 oil: no its not like that Sep 27 23:16:19 not with preware Sep 27 23:16:23 you're not going to change it so it breaks everything Sep 27 23:16:29 API changes need more care and should only be done as necessary Sep 27 23:16:31 we have to worry about the "ecosystem" Sep 27 23:16:32 you're going to talk to them to make sure it will still work with what they have Sep 27 23:16:43 i dont care what they have Sep 27 23:16:48 i just want to ,make a service Sep 27 23:16:51 then why make a service for them to use? Sep 27 23:16:54 and let people use it if they wayt Sep 27 23:16:55 want Sep 27 23:16:58 but that cant happen Sep 27 23:17:03 i dont understand Sep 27 23:17:11 you just really want to break anything that uses your service? Sep 27 23:17:17 isnt that shooting yourself in the foot? Sep 27 23:17:35 oil: no.... Sep 27 23:17:44 its not broken unless someone upgrades to a new version Sep 27 23:17:46 ipkgservice should supply mojo with a required set of API for ipkg stuff Sep 27 23:17:54 if preware needs version 1 of my service Sep 27 23:17:58 and i come out with version 2 Sep 27 23:18:03 nothing forces people to update Sep 27 23:18:03 and any changes to that API NEEDS to take into account others using the service Sep 27 23:18:11 egaudet: no Sep 27 23:18:11 right Sep 27 23:18:14 just basic software development practices Sep 27 23:18:15 not at all Sep 27 23:18:17 lol Sep 27 23:18:25 what good is the service if nobody uses it in their app? Sep 27 23:18:33 and if you continually break apps making changes on your own Sep 27 23:18:36 nobody is going to want to use it Sep 27 23:18:52 you come out with version 2, you make it backwards compatible Sep 27 23:18:53 so why release it in the first place? Sep 27 23:18:56 im not saying im gonna break it all the time Sep 27 23:19:02 or that i wont maintain backwards compat Sep 27 23:19:03 and if you really need to deprecate API, deprecate it Sep 27 23:19:10 give time to port up, and then remove it Sep 27 23:19:11 all im saying is that no one forces you to use the new version Sep 27 23:19:17 so nothing is really broken Sep 27 23:19:24 the devs that use it can udpate their app Sep 27 23:19:33 if they want to use the new version Sep 27 23:19:34 PuffTheMagic, yes but you don't release a version that breaks things Sep 27 23:19:41 you deprecate stuff and give time for devs to migrate Sep 27 23:19:45 egaudet: if i need to make big changes that happens Sep 27 23:19:53 then you need to tell people using it that things are changing Sep 27 23:19:56 so they can get on board Sep 27 23:19:57 It's only one person using it.. err.. one app Sep 27 23:19:57 PuffTheMagic, there's almost always a way to keep it backwards compatible Sep 27 23:20:00 besides prewaqre Sep 27 23:20:05 and you aren't talking about big changes, we are talking about API changes Sep 27 23:20:06 you guys are missing the point Sep 27 23:20:10 the point is Sep 27 23:20:12 It's not like we are talking about thousands of peopel Sep 27 23:20:12 puff cares about nobody else Sep 27 23:20:13 API is a lot different than the implementation Sep 27 23:20:20 and wants to just make changes Sep 27 23:20:21 and not care Sep 27 23:20:30 The API needs to be decided by many, and it's a set of functionality that mojo REQUIRES, period Sep 27 23:20:39 no....... Sep 27 23:20:51 uh oh.. coder drama ;) Sep 27 23:20:58 * wh0dat hides. Sep 27 23:21:10 egaudet: lets say you are making a xmms2 client Sep 27 23:21:10 i mean, if you're just going to continually release new versions that break preware, i agree with rod, preware wont use it Sep 27 23:21:18 xmms2 devs dont give a shit if theuir updates break your app Sep 27 23:21:21 they dont talk to you about it Sep 27 23:21:25 they make changes Sep 27 23:21:28 and if u want to use the new versionb Sep 27 23:21:30 can anyone shed some light on this error I get with an ampache server? "Error Invlaid Handshae - Login Failed, timestamp too old" Sep 27 23:21:32 you adapt to their changes Sep 27 23:21:38 they wouldn't change their API Sep 27 23:21:39 you dont HAVE to use the new version Sep 27 23:21:43 without deprecating, documenting etc... Sep 27 23:21:44 egaudet: they do Sep 27 23:21:58 i don't know squat about xmm2 so Sep 27 23:22:09 egaudet: why do i need tell you about the change before i make it Sep 27 23:22:15 why dont you want to Sep 27 23:22:17 because you Sep 27 23:22:19 is the real question Sep 27 23:22:20 'll piss people off Sep 27 23:22:20 why cant i say, new version works like this..... use it if you want Sep 27 23:22:25 why are you so against telling people whats going on? Sep 27 23:22:30 PuffTheMagic, because you arne't making standalone software Sep 27 23:22:51 oil: besides you... the other people that use ipkgservice dont maintain a presense around here Sep 27 23:22:51 you are IMPLEMENTING an API between Mojo and Linux Sep 27 23:22:58 and im not going out of my way to track them down Sep 27 23:23:02 im sure they have an email address Sep 27 23:23:09 that would take all of a minute to shoot them an email Sep 27 23:23:13 ipkgservice is not it's own project, it is an implementation of an API. It serves 0 purpose on its own Sep 27 23:23:23 oil: it would take them a minute to look at my documentation Sep 27 23:23:26 and look at the changes Sep 27 23:23:27 you don't have to track who uses it Sep 27 23:23:29 if they want to upgrade Sep 27 23:23:34 you should just try to follow good practices Sep 27 23:23:45 its not a them problem Sep 27 23:23:49 Documenting changes, deprecating APIs, backwards compatibilty etc... Sep 27 23:23:51 the user will see this new version and want update Sep 27 23:23:55 breaking everything that uses it Sep 27 23:24:16 It's the devs who use the service job to keep up with changes I agree, but it shouldn't be a surprise Sep 27 23:24:16 oil: wrong Sep 27 23:24:25 oil: how could people be using something i didnt release yet Sep 27 23:24:36 if i make changes in a new version it dont affect ANYONE! Sep 27 23:24:47 when are you releasing the new version? Sep 27 23:24:47 not untill they decide they want to use it Sep 27 23:24:56 its not like its packaged with preware Sep 27 23:24:58 its a seperate app Sep 27 23:25:05 its listed in the installers on its own Sep 27 23:25:09 PuffTheMagic, ipkgservice is NOT made for people who know what they are doing Sep 27 23:25:22 egaudet: sure it is Sep 27 23:25:25 if rod released an update to the package service Sep 27 23:25:26 You shouldn't be taking that attitude of "don't update unless you know what it does" Sep 27 23:25:29 it would appear in the updates section Sep 27 23:25:32 egaudet: ipkgservice is made for oil Sep 27 23:25:32 and i could install it Sep 27 23:25:38 not knowing that it breaks preware Sep 27 23:25:39 the ipkgservice should NEVER be released without backward compatibility Sep 27 23:25:59 unless there were well documented deprecated API functions that were known to be changing Sep 27 23:26:10 no egaudet that requires communication Sep 27 23:26:11 egaudet: im not saying dont update unless you know what it does, im saying dont upgrade unless you want the new features and want to make changes if they are required Sep 27 23:26:17 puff doesnt want to communicate to anyone his changes Sep 27 23:26:28 oil: thats not true Sep 27 23:26:38 i will tell you all about my changes Sep 27 23:26:41 i dont want to ask you to make a change Sep 27 23:26:42 PuffTheMagic, users dont care about ipkgservice Sep 27 23:26:44 that is the difference Sep 27 23:26:45 they don't use it directly Sep 27 23:26:49 they shouldn't care about what it does Sep 27 23:26:53 egaudet: i dont care about users either Sep 27 23:26:55 ipkgservice is a service FOR developers Sep 27 23:26:58 im talking about devs Sep 27 23:27:07 so when you update ipkgservice, it allows the users to update it Sep 27 23:27:07 I am feeling a little bit of negative energy in the once happy chat room Sep 27 23:27:08 egaudet: yes im talking about devs also Sep 27 23:27:13 but a dev is a user of my segvice Sep 27 23:27:16 and if the user CAN update, they will Sep 27 23:27:18 well, someone else who is more open and knows the place of his service will make an ipkgservice in c, and preware will use it Sep 27 23:27:25 Joesmith: im a giant asshole Sep 27 23:27:27 but if you don't coordinate with the devs, then the users get a broken product Sep 27 23:27:36 egaudet: no they dont Sep 27 23:27:40 they do Sep 27 23:27:42 if it doesnt work Sep 27 23:27:47 egaudet: again why do they have to upgrade for no reason? Sep 27 23:27:51 but it doesn';t matter, puff doesnt care about users Sep 27 23:27:57 PuffTheMagic, they WILL Sep 27 23:28:03 it doesn't matter what they SHOULD do Sep 27 23:28:19 you really have to get that thinking out of your head with this specific service Sep 27 23:28:23 hold on Sep 27 23:28:25 who cares about WHY Sep 27 23:28:31 hold on hold on Sep 27 23:28:38 ipkg spec supports depends Sep 27 23:28:44 and depends supports versions Sep 27 23:28:56 u can do Depends: ipkgservice (=1.0.0) Sep 27 23:29:01 and then the user cant upgrade Sep 27 23:29:14 well they could Sep 27 23:29:18 and they would Sep 27 23:29:24 and preware would stop working Sep 27 23:29:25 fuck them then Sep 27 23:29:28 if they are that stupid Sep 27 23:29:29 exactly Sep 27 23:29:36 we need someone to make a c ipkgservice that does care Sep 27 23:29:45 i have to say that i agree with rod Sep 27 23:30:01 it's not about them being stupid Sep 27 23:30:05 oil: i really only care about you Sep 27 23:30:06 there is nothing stupid about updating Sep 27 23:30:14 if you are the one using the service Sep 27 23:30:26 the user should not be expected to know the details of the packages and what packages are depending on specific versions etc... Sep 27 23:30:28 egaudet: yes there is Sep 27 23:30:35 you are an idiot if u update for no reason Sep 27 23:30:40 if dont know why u are doing something Sep 27 23:30:40 * oil will brb Sep 27 23:30:43 saying the dev of the installer needs to know what versions they are compatible with is fine Sep 27 23:30:43 then why do it Sep 27 23:31:03 PuffTheMagic, that's absolute bull Sep 27 23:31:42 Do you know how much time I would have to waste in order to sit there and go through every single package in ubuntu that there is an update for every day? Sep 27 23:32:07 i dont upgrade anything in gentoo with out a reason to Sep 27 23:32:11 Sorry but no, if ubuntu told me a couple packages were updated and allowed me to update but it broke a bunch of other things I'd stop using it Sep 27 23:32:11 if its not broke dont fix it Sep 27 23:32:35 PuffTheMagic, that's fine. and that's not a bad practice, but you need to stop expecting others to think exactly like you and be as knowledgeable/familiar with things like that Sep 27 23:32:37 Please take a look if you know anything about ampache http://forums.precentral.net/1923612-post406.html Sep 27 23:33:15 egaudet: if preware was smart, it would check to see if a package depends on a old version Sep 27 23:33:25 and not allow users to install something that breaks another app Sep 27 23:34:18 PuffTheMagic, no distro ever releases a package update for something that cannot work standalone Sep 27 23:34:36 You can update ipkgservice all you want, but the release needs to be controlled Sep 27 23:34:47 egaudet: thats wrong Sep 27 23:35:04 egaudet: use a distro that dont treat you like a baby Sep 27 23:35:15 PuffTheMagic, I don't want to Sep 27 23:35:29 I don't have the time to have to know about every single package on linux Sep 27 23:35:58 egaudet: i guess you dont contribute pacakges to your distro either Sep 27 23:36:03 When I want/need to know certain packages etc... I have the power and know how to get what I need Sep 27 23:36:22 but I don't want to HAVE to do that for everything on my machine, and go through the logs and see what changes may or may not effect me Sep 27 23:38:02 Bottom line is ipkgservice releases without regards to anything but your decision will never be supported, and you'd be writing ipkgservice in C only for yourself and fork preware just for your personal use. Which if that is what you want OK. Sep 27 23:38:04 * PuffTheMagic throws in the towl Sep 27 23:38:05 * PuffTheMagic done working on webos Sep 27 23:38:08 lol Sep 27 23:38:25 Is it really all or nothing with you Sep 27 23:39:06 seems that way Sep 27 23:39:59 i shouldnt have to ask every user(dev) of a service i write if I can make changes or break API Sep 27 23:40:07 dont upgrade if you dont need/want the new changes Sep 27 23:40:10 why is that hard Sep 27 23:40:35 PuffTheMagic, users have the power to update any package. That is why it is hard Sep 27 23:40:45 yeah, users can upgrade that package Sep 27 23:40:47 First off "every user(dev)" is about 3 people Sep 27 23:40:47 because it's new Sep 27 23:41:03 Second off the ipkgservice API should rarely if ever change any way Sep 27 23:41:06 dBsooner: they only can update it cause Preware isnt smart enough Sep 27 23:41:07 and if they upgrade that service package, and it breaks an app tha tuses it. Sep 27 23:41:25 egaudet: ipkgservice was the very first service i wrote Sep 27 23:41:27 Thirdly, if it DOES change the extra functionality can be made optional with backwards compatibility for the old API functions Sep 27 23:41:34 i've learned a lot since then Sep 27 23:41:37 i can do shit better Sep 27 23:41:50 1.0.0 isnt even out Sep 27 23:41:51 PuffTheMagic, OK that's fine and you can also write backwards compatible functions Sep 27 23:41:54 its beta Sep 27 23:41:58 expect shit to break Sep 27 23:42:04 egaudet: i can Sep 27 23:42:11 never said i wouldnt Sep 27 23:42:13 so confrontational Sep 27 23:42:18 but i shouldnt need to ask permission Sep 27 23:42:20 why is it so hard to keep it backwards compatible, deprecate the "old" functions, and create new ones Sep 27 23:42:37 egaudet: i never said i wouldnt try to maintain backwards compat Sep 27 23:42:43 i just dont want to have to ask permission Sep 27 23:42:45 that is bullshit Sep 27 23:42:49 it's not about trying, and it's not about permission Sep 27 23:42:59 its 100% is about that Sep 27 23:43:02 it's the fact that the entire ecosystem is resting on this stuff working Sep 27 23:43:13 then dont fucking update to it Sep 27 23:43:26 write a proper ipkg with a depends line Sep 27 23:43:28 PuffTheMagic, that will never be valid, ever ever ever Sep 27 23:43:33 fix preware so it obeys depends Sep 27 23:43:45 you cannot depend on the user to make the right update decision, so just throw that out right away forever Sep 27 23:43:54 i don't think developers really want to say "don't use my software" Sep 27 23:43:56 egaudet: this has noithig to do with the user Sep 27 23:44:01 preware can prevent upgrades Sep 27 23:44:09 if preware requires 1.0.0 Sep 27 23:44:13 PuffTheMagic, the "don't update" is a user decision Sep 27 23:44:15 why would it allow 1.1.0 Sep 27 23:44:21 maybe you just meant to word it "don't ALLOW update" Sep 27 23:44:51 egaudet: depend field is just a waste right now Sep 27 23:44:57 and it should be used Sep 27 23:45:02 no it isn't a waste at all Sep 27 23:45:11 egaudet: it is a waste cause preware dont use it Sep 27 23:45:15 all the patches use depends Sep 27 23:45:35 egaudet: its under utilized Sep 27 23:45:53 PuffTheMagic, you should NOT want to take on a project (ipkgservice) if you do not want to work with others Sep 27 23:46:13 egaudet: i work with oil all the time Sep 27 23:46:19 egaudet: its the others Sep 27 23:46:22 I hate when the update can't connect Sep 27 23:46:24 that dont spend time here Sep 27 23:46:25 There is a very small group of people who's input matters on the ipkgservice Sep 27 23:46:27 that i dont give a shit about Sep 27 23:47:18 and that is not going to change, and if you can't accept not having complete control over every last detail of ipkgservice then you shouldn't expect it to be used Sep 27 23:47:37 egaudet: i dont work on ipkgservice any more Sep 27 23:47:45 im talking about makign a new package manager service Sep 27 23:47:51 and if people want to use it fine Sep 27 23:47:55 but Sep 27 23:48:03 its never gonna happen Sep 27 23:48:29 It's simple really, I think you can contribute a lot to ipkgservice in C, but NO ONE will use it unless you follow some standard principles with a small group community decisions on API Sep 27 23:48:45 egaudet: ipkgservice is a webosinternals project Sep 27 23:48:50 i have nothing to do witht aht any more Sep 27 23:48:56 its as simple as that Sep 27 23:48:59 A) you create package manager service in C and use it only for yourself Sep 27 23:49:02 i dont by this ecosystem shit Sep 27 23:49:08 we are not a distro Sep 27 23:49:08 i say do what you want and tell everyone else to fuck off .. just do what you want Sep 27 23:49:14 we are a community of devs Sep 27 23:49:20 B) you work within the ecosystem as one of the main developers on an ipkgservice port to C Sep 27 23:49:46 PuffTheMagic, none of us devs need a damn gui installer Sep 27 23:50:08 egaudet: why cant i make a service and let oil choose to use it or not Sep 27 23:50:11 and then update the service Sep 27 23:50:16 and let oil use it or not Sep 27 23:50:18 the community DOES, and you become really selfish when you continue to say you don't give a damn about anyone but yourself Sep 27 23:51:08 egaudet: i like the gui installer... i dont want to use google to track down ipkgs Sep 27 23:51:21 PuffTheMagic, you can get them off the feeds you dont need google Sep 27 23:51:34 egaudet: i would need to "find" feeds first Sep 27 23:51:41 no you wouldn't Sep 27 23:51:46 sure i would Sep 27 23:51:48 you know what feeds there are Sep 27 23:51:56 wee!! Sep 27 23:51:56 only cause i worked on preware/ipkgsergice Sep 27 23:51:59 if it wernt for that i woudlnt Sep 27 23:52:01 * dBsooner loves WORU! Sep 27 23:53:00 PuffTheMagic, if you want a package manager service for only you, then go ahead make it Sep 27 23:53:33 but it will never be used by anyone but you Sep 27 23:53:51 egaudet: if its superior to what exists it might Sep 27 23:54:01 no it still won't Sep 27 23:54:27 egaudet: why is webos devel so much different that every other OSS devel Sep 27 23:54:36 no other library devs need to go though this bullshit Sep 27 23:54:39 not unless the devs that would use it are confident that a release would never break their system/stuff Sep 27 23:55:13 egaudet: have you ever written any OSS software before for Linux... using OSS libs Sep 27 23:55:15 ? Sep 27 23:55:19 Go make whatever change you want to the linux kernel, and don't follow standards put in place and demand Linus to put it in the kernel Sep 27 23:55:39 egaudet: thats apples and oranges Sep 27 23:55:52 I've never contributed to other OSS projects before no Sep 27 23:55:55 im not adding code to an existint project Sep 27 23:55:56 im making a brand new project Sep 27 23:56:02 and making it avail for peopel to use if they want Sep 27 23:56:23 but webos isn't Open source Sep 27 23:56:52 widows isnt either Sep 27 23:56:57 but there is OSS software for windows Sep 27 23:57:50 PuffTheMagic, are there OSS projects for Windows that are simply windows services that do nothing but provide developers an API into Windows OS Sep 27 23:58:35 you all done arguing? Cuz I got a real question about ipkg. :D Sep 27 23:59:00 when I do "ipkg -o /var list_installed" I have a package installed without a name Sep 27 23:59:03 how do i remove it? Sep 27 23:59:05 you want your package manager service to trully be open source or completely controlled by you? Sep 27 23:59:28 egaudet: are they mutually exclusive Sep 27 23:59:55 egaudet: cause you admitted you havent made oss from scratch before or contributed Sep 28 00:01:24 fine I just don't understand why you want to control a service that only serves as a link between linux and a mojo gui Sep 28 00:02:02 egaudet: cause its my project, why should only devs of mojo guis get full control of their project Sep 28 00:02:08 I don't really care one way or the other, I'm just trying to save everyone headaches ahead of time Sep 28 00:02:32 egaudet: i said like 30 min ago it would never happen anyway Sep 28 00:02:32 PuffTheMagic, if you want full control fine, I'm not saying you shouldn't. But understand that it won't be used Sep 28 00:02:52 why would oil use it if he isnt' guaranteed to have any input/control over how it effects his application Sep 28 00:03:01 egaudet: i dont get why you as a user(dev) of a service/lib get to have any say in how it works Sep 28 00:03:12 egaudet unless im making is specificlaly for you Sep 28 00:03:23 in which case i would work specifically with you Sep 28 00:03:28 I'm not saying anyone should care HOW it works, they care about the exposed API Sep 28 00:03:59 egaudet: those users(devs) dont have any say in the API typically Sep 28 00:04:04 for 99% of oss stuff Sep 28 00:04:10 uness you are an active dev also Sep 28 00:04:14 for that lib/service Sep 28 00:04:25 I know at my company if we changed APIs we would be destroying relationships with our customers' engineers using those APIs Sep 28 00:04:36 kde devs dont really dictate how qt evloves Sep 28 00:04:40 evolves Sep 28 00:06:54 What is ipkgservice's job? Sep 28 00:07:15 the Qt devs do care about how the KDE devs will feel about the changes going into Qt Sep 28 00:07:25 and a lot of Trolltech employees started off as KDE developers Sep 28 00:07:29 clee: thats not what i said Sep 28 00:07:38 * clee nods Sep 28 00:07:47 I'm just saying, it's not like KDE has *zero* effect on Qt's roadmap. :) Sep 28 00:07:47 clee: i said the kde devs dont dictate what changes happen Sep 28 00:07:53 They may not dictate it, but they do affect it. Sep 28 00:07:54 im not saying that cant influence shit Sep 28 00:08:01 sure they affect it Sep 28 00:08:23 PuffTheMagic, you don't give anyone confidence that you would "care" what installer devs wanted Sep 28 00:08:43 You give off the impression that you only care about what you want to do and that's what you are going to do, everyone else be damned Sep 28 00:08:54 here is one thing we can all agree on Sep 28 00:08:59 nobody is going to change puffs mind Sep 28 00:09:06 if Qt devs gave that impression to KDE, things would b emuch different Sep 28 00:09:10 Lol @ oil Sep 28 00:09:22 oil: have i not tried to work wiht you so far on our projects and so stuff to make it easy for you Sep 28 00:09:29 you have Sep 28 00:09:39 and i know i've said i would do that in the future Sep 28 00:09:39 I disagree, I think puff is argumentative but reflects afterwards Sep 28 00:09:52 but nobody else is writing mojo for ubermon or wirc Sep 28 00:10:02 egaudet: i will work with who ever is using my service Sep 28 00:10:06 use as in dev Sep 28 00:10:08 not end user Sep 28 00:10:10 ipkgservice is different, other people are using it Sep 28 00:10:22 oil: but i dont work on ipkgservice Sep 28 00:10:29 preload can keep using preload Sep 28 00:10:30 err Sep 28 00:10:32 well to be fair, preware could use xyzservice and not break another installer using ipkgservice Sep 28 00:10:35 preload can keep using ipkgservice Sep 28 00:10:42 egaudet: exactly Sep 28 00:10:51 if the dev of preload wnats to come here and talk to me Sep 28 00:10:53 i would work with him Sep 28 00:10:55 it's the parsing of the ipk and the feed format that has to be 100% strict and follow an agreed upon standard Sep 28 00:10:58 but im not going out of my way to find him Sep 28 00:11:06 and ask him if can make a change Sep 28 00:11:09 that is the difference Sep 28 00:11:33 egaudet: my C ipkg service would use libipkg strictly Sep 28 00:11:50 parsing feeds its not an issue here Sep 28 00:12:07 as long as installer A, B, C and D can use the same feed and ipk then all the underlying details can be specific Sep 28 00:13:07 yeah the serivcfe has nothing to do with the feed Sep 28 00:16:00 how you update a cloned repo feed with get? Sep 28 00:16:06 s/get/git/ Sep 28 00:16:06 dBsooner meant: how you update a cloned repo feed with git? Sep 28 00:16:17 dBsooner: git pull Sep 28 00:17:07 oil, ipk with icons in autopatch feed Sep 28 00:17:54 ~seen rwhitby Sep 28 00:17:56 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals (1d 3h 35m 1s) #nslu2-linux (1d 3h 35m 1s), last said: 'so it would be easy to write a service which would hide all the homebrew apps from the palm install api, and then restore them again after you've installed an app from the app catalog ...'. Sep 28 00:19:33 egaudet: they look good :) Sep 28 00:20:14 ahh Sep 28 00:20:16 you just gotta be in the dir Sep 28 00:20:36 kesne: he is on vacation for 10 days Sep 28 00:20:41 yea oil, now you need to get me 4 more Sep 28 00:20:55 Yeah I heard, just wanted to make sure. ;) Sep 28 00:21:37 does doing a git pull in the preware applications feed update the build script as well? Sep 28 00:21:58 egaudet so if you want to make an IRC service im pretty sure oil will still make the gui Sep 28 00:22:38 PuffTheMagic: you're not making the service amymore? Sep 28 00:22:42 anymore* Sep 28 00:22:46 he's trying to say that I could make one too Sep 28 00:22:50 and get you to make the gui for it Sep 28 00:22:54 I think Sep 28 00:23:04 :( Sep 28 00:23:56 lol Sep 28 00:24:13 oil: Sep 28 00:24:52 Does anyone know how to change the color of the "dot" that appears when you press the orange key in a text field? Sep 28 00:25:29 oil: well I not great at C, and shit will change in the service, the more program the better i get and the more ideas i get about how to do stuff or what I could add its not really worth my time if no one is gonna use it cause it changes Sep 28 00:27:54 PuffTheMagic; thats understandable Sep 28 00:28:15 only one mojo app would be using it Sep 28 00:28:25 Abyssul: it's somewhere in framework. Sep 28 00:28:26 says who? Sep 28 00:28:36 well if another irc app comes out Sep 28 00:28:46 you should let them know if youre going to change anything that would break their app Sep 28 00:28:51 I've checked the framwork a dozen times lol Sep 28 00:29:00 Could you help me find it lol? Sep 28 00:29:06 Abyssul: egaudet may have enountered it. Sep 28 00:29:14 in the course of working on osk. Sep 28 00:30:16 Abyssul: now that you are here.. I had a hell of a time removing your original red and black theme Sep 28 00:33:28 why do I have "All" and "themes" under THemes? Sep 28 00:34:30 eh/ Sep 28 00:34:35 in preware Sep 28 00:35:37 God I am sick of my pre giving me the error: mount mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy Sep 28 00:35:41 when I try to install anything with preware Sep 28 00:36:19 anyway, in preware: avail packages->Theme .. I have "All" and "themes" Sep 28 00:37:03 cause themes only have one category Sep 28 00:37:32 root@castle:/var/home/root# mount -o remount,ro / Sep 28 00:37:32 mount: mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy Sep 28 00:37:37 why do i get that all the time? Sep 28 00:37:52 because the device or resource is busy? Sep 28 00:37:56 lol Sep 28 00:37:58 you think? Sep 28 00:38:25 oil: you should check to see if catetories < 2 and if false show ALL Sep 28 00:39:04 i had it like that, but it was funky Sep 28 00:40:54 wierd Sep 28 00:41:01 root@castle:/var/usr/lib/ipkg/info# mount -o remount,rw / Sep 28 00:41:01 root@castle:/var/usr/lib/ipkg/info# mount -o remount,ro / Sep 28 00:41:01 mount: mounting /dev/mapper/store-root on / failed: Device or resource busy Sep 28 00:41:01 root@castle:/var/usr/lib/ipkg/info# Sep 28 00:41:18 I can remount it rw, but get the error if I remount it ro Sep 28 00:41:21 * CheebaHawk goes back to working on a service that no one will ever use cause he likes wasting time Sep 28 00:42:43 Puff you have the power to control how many people use it remember that Sep 28 00:43:06 s/control/influence Sep 28 00:44:59 so no ideas why it keeps telling me the device or resource is busy trying to remount ro? Sep 28 00:48:27 whatever you are doing stop doing Sep 28 00:49:07 lol Sep 28 00:49:18 Stop installing stuff with preware? Sep 28 00:50:08 frameworks, luna, nfl, nascar, sprinttv oil Sep 28 00:50:15 lol, i go out to eat, come back, and there was a HUGE fire down the street i missed. Sep 28 00:50:15 i hate life. Sep 28 00:50:17 icons :P Sep 28 00:50:24 dBsooner, how ar eyou connecting to pre Sep 28 00:50:29 wifi Sep 28 00:50:39 yea don't want to miss those fires... Sep 28 00:50:41 I tried it usb too Sep 28 00:50:54 sorry, wifi ssh Sep 28 00:51:00 didn't try novacom Sep 28 00:51:40 so you reboot pre, ssh into pre as user and do sudo mount -o rw,remount / Sep 28 00:51:48 and then sudo mount -o ro,remount / Sep 28 00:51:51 without doing anything else Sep 28 00:51:56 and you get error? Sep 28 01:04:41 ill try thqat in a sec Sep 28 01:04:45 making a very long for loop Sep 28 01:04:50 to rename png.bak to png Sep 28 01:09:21 f o r Sep 28 01:12:43 for i in `find / -name \*.png.bak`;do dir=`dirname $i`; j=$dir/`basename $i .png.bak`.png; mv $i $j; done Sep 28 01:20:10 egaudet: no error if I do it first thing after reboot and ssh in Sep 28 01:20:50 so log what you do to reproduce your problem Sep 28 01:21:46 egaudet: i made 4 more icons http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Icons#Patches_Icons Sep 28 01:21:54 devlauncher, nascar, nfl, and sprinttv Sep 28 01:22:35 where is the font set for the clock and network name on the home card? Sep 28 01:22:42 top left says Sprint Sep 28 01:26:56 found it Sep 28 01:30:15 anyway i can be let in on the arguement :P Sep 28 01:38:02 egaudet: having one person have control / direction over a project and having your project open source are not mutually exclusive. in fact most OSS projects are done that way Sep 28 01:38:29 egaudet: we're kind of the odd ones out here in webos-internals, and it does cause pain on occasion Sep 28 01:41:17 egaudet: ping Sep 28 01:42:02 http://blog.treonauts.com/ seems to have died. used to be a good blog. Sep 28 01:42:16 rboatright: messaged you the key Sep 28 01:42:39 yea destinal I was confusing stuff earlier Sep 28 01:42:45 dBsooner, pong Sep 28 01:42:48 woot Sep 28 01:42:53 Idea.. for Preware autopatch Sep 28 01:42:59 can you have a remove all "patch" Sep 28 01:43:09 E...P...R Sep 28 01:43:13 one that will go through and remove all the ipks that match a certain thingy Sep 28 01:43:14 :D Sep 28 01:43:19 EPR will just remove all? Sep 28 01:43:26 yea EPR will remove all Sep 28 01:43:43 so say I install like 20 patches Sep 28 01:43:46 EPR will remove them all Sep 28 01:43:48 then i can update to 1.2 Sep 28 01:43:49 :D Sep 28 01:44:07 yea, and you should even be able to update to 1.2 and then EPR and still be OK Sep 28 01:44:20 k Sep 28 01:44:30 but EPR and then update is safer Sep 28 01:44:32 i think my remount problem has to do with usb Sep 28 01:46:08 egaudet, scorll up and check my for loop Sep 28 01:46:14 I was quite impressed. Sep 28 01:47:46 :) Sep 28 01:50:16 oil: get the list of everything without themes on the git yet? Sep 28 01:52:32 the list of everything is the list of everything Sep 28 01:52:41 there is an all category under available applications though Sep 28 01:55:09 So, IYHO, how dangerous is it to open up ssh to EVDO interface? Sep 28 01:58:22 I don't know if it is so much dangerous I'd be worried about, I'd just hate my evdo bandwidth being soaked up by bruteforce attempts Sep 28 01:58:53 Atleast on an obscure port you get away from that potential bot that strobes IP's that answer to 22 and then starts spamming password attempts Sep 28 01:59:16 yeah, I have it on a diff port Sep 28 01:59:35 I am just in my work truck along on my work laptop.. I would want to have ssh access so I can use a full keyboard Sep 28 02:23:13 how the hell do you view all in the App catalog? Sep 28 02:23:27 You don't ;) Sep 28 02:23:32 that sucks Sep 28 02:23:40 I think if you do "Most Recent" Sep 28 02:23:40 lol Sep 28 02:23:48 it's the equivalent of all sorted by latest date Sep 28 02:23:48 nope, thats only 50 Sep 28 02:23:52 you only et the last 50 in most recent Sep 28 02:24:04 *grins* Sep 28 02:24:09 Did not know, go Palm ;> Sep 28 02:24:09 you have an idea oil? Sep 28 02:24:23 wait for new app store? Sep 28 02:24:38 the only time i look in the app catalog Sep 28 02:24:43 Im just installing all that I can from the current app store before I go patching with ipkg's Sep 28 02:24:47 is to look at my app to see ratings/downloads etc Sep 28 02:24:56 your app sucks Sep 28 02:25:00 :D Sep 28 02:25:06 so does yours Sep 28 02:25:08 oh wait Sep 28 02:25:15 Hey Sep 28 02:25:17 lol Sep 28 02:25:19 If I had one! Sep 28 02:25:23 You'd be sorry! Sep 28 02:26:03 boo Sep 28 02:26:09 App cat: sorry not enough memory Sep 28 02:26:21 thats what you get for installing too much crap Sep 28 02:26:25 heh Sep 28 02:26:33 It's your app that is filling it up Sep 28 02:26:51 Does anyone know how to change the color of the "dot" that appears when you press the orange key in a text field? Sep 28 02:27:03 dsBooner. rwhitby came up with the simple solution for the appcat out of space Sep 28 02:27:21 move everything out of /var/usr/palm/applications to /var/apptemp Sep 28 02:27:25 rboatright: yeah, that's my thread Sep 28 02:27:27 install whatever you want from the app catalog Sep 28 02:27:30 then move it back Sep 28 02:27:39 and you have to move it off the /var partition completely Sep 28 02:27:43 or you'll still get out of memory Sep 28 02:27:51 read the OP of the thread he posted that in Sep 28 02:27:58 I updated it last night with detailed instructions Sep 28 02:28:20 /dev/mapper/store-var Sep 28 02:28:20 248.0M 107.4M 140.6M 43% /var Sep 28 02:28:38 140MB free and Im out of memory. Sep 28 02:28:39 :D Sep 28 02:29:08 lets look in preware at home many ipkg's are installed.... Sep 28 02:29:27 46 Sep 28 02:33:47 tar cf /media/internal/applications.tar /var/usr/palm/applications.tar Sep 28 02:33:52 lol Sep 28 02:34:00 wrong window and I meant to hit backspace instead of enter Sep 28 02:34:12 i hope that there is an official change soon for the app space, you cant even download all the apps in the catalog without getting those errors Sep 28 02:35:47 what? I just installed without any problems PreHero. Sep 28 02:35:54 Had the error, don't anymore. Sep 28 02:35:59 And didn't uninstall anything. Sep 28 02:36:23 without doing all the moving of the files first? Sep 28 02:36:29 nope Sep 28 02:36:32 well yeah Sep 28 02:36:33 I didn't MOVE any Sep 28 02:36:36 I tar'd them Sep 28 02:36:59 ahh, you just shrunk them? Sep 28 02:37:19 no, tar'd them to the /media/internal partition **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 28 02:59:57 2009