**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 18 02:59:57 2009 Oct 18 03:03:55 i know no one cares but still :p Oct 18 03:04:10 i think i need the phone to edit the db3 file Oct 18 03:04:16 i cant do it through the doctor Oct 18 03:15:13 I don't think it's an issue of nobody caring. I think it's an issue of nobody really being here. Oct 18 03:20:46 yeah Oct 18 03:20:52 you are right Oct 18 03:21:37 Anyone home? I have 2 questions... Oct 18 03:21:45 Morning Oct 18 03:22:02 Ha....speak of the devil... Oct 18 03:22:29 One of my questions had to do with your emergency 911 patch Abyssul... Oct 18 03:22:34 Sure go ahead Oct 18 03:22:50 I was going to ask if someone knew how to get it added to the feeds so we can install via preware Oct 18 03:22:54 What would be the quickest way to uh.. 'lengthen' this b/dash.history? Oct 18 03:23:15 s/this/the Oct 18 03:23:29 Someone would have to add it. I don't wish to have access to the feed. Oct 18 03:23:55 So you would rather it not be added via Preware? Oct 18 03:24:06 I want it to be, but Im not doing it myself Oct 18 03:24:30 Did you install it via QI? Oct 18 03:24:30 Oh...ok...that's why I stopped in here to see if anyone had the capability to add it. Oct 18 03:25:08 I haven't installed it yet....I'm currently using Ubuntu and I'd have to reboot to my WINXP system...which isn't a big deal...will probably do it tomorrow Oct 18 03:25:19 Mmk Oct 18 03:25:24 Also, if there is an issue, it can be removed with WebOS QI, correct? Oct 18 03:25:46 I just kind've threw it together in 30 minutes Oct 18 03:25:54 so I dont know any bugs which is why I asked Oct 18 03:26:04 It seems like one member has a problem with uninstalling it Oct 18 03:27:15 Ok... Oct 18 03:27:18 Next question... Oct 18 03:27:30 Was FairDinkum removed from the feeds? Oct 18 03:27:40 Maybe temporarly Oct 18 03:27:47 Someone posted earlier that they could not find it and I also did a search and could not find it either Oct 18 03:27:59 I haven't been here lately, but Im sure they are probably switching feeds with it Oct 18 03:28:11 ok.... Oct 18 03:28:20 I haven't heard of any reason to remove it permentally Oct 18 03:29:34 ok...will check back tomorrow to see if it shows up again...thanks Oct 18 03:29:50 No problem Oct 18 03:29:59 Yay 222 thanks overall on forums :D Oct 18 04:17:01 Wow there are a lot of patch requests that seem interesting Oct 18 04:17:07 and they dont seem difficult either Oct 18 04:23:02 evening folks Oct 18 04:24:43 Howdy Oct 18 04:24:56 Jason hasnt logged on :( Oct 18 04:25:29 heh, I sent him a DM on twitter, and he's been tweeting Oct 18 04:25:31 *shrug* Oct 18 04:25:40 gonna remove zips from prethemer until the spec is updated Oct 18 04:26:29 My themes been disabled for weeks Oct 18 04:27:42 what you mean Oct 18 04:28:49 My theme is inoperable without .css modifications Oct 18 04:29:22 and there hasnt been support for that since QI was updated 2-3 weeks ago Oct 18 04:30:07 ahh yeah Oct 18 04:30:43 I did have plans to eexpand prethemer to allow uploading of whole css files which would then be converted to patches with the themes, but I'd rather get patching stable first Oct 18 04:31:05 like I said, jason did post a tweet about maybe getting an update this weekend, so maybe at that point things'll be good to go Oct 18 04:34:08 omg omg omg omg omg Oct 18 04:34:54 i think i came up with a workaround for the ip_forward issue with out stopping any services or editing of binaries! Oct 18 04:34:54 yea? Oct 18 04:36:28 well, soudns like an important breakthrough Oct 18 04:36:42 apologies I can't be more excited since I have no clue as to what you're talking about ;) Oct 18 04:37:04 puff is making his own mytether Oct 18 04:37:29 oh, one that would be free and actually work consistently? Oct 18 04:37:31 no waiz Oct 18 04:37:33 ;) Oct 18 04:37:58 I can't hate, I had free, fast internet on vacation with mytether. Just a pain in the bizzut to use Oct 18 04:37:59 yourTether Oct 18 04:38:03 not myTether Oct 18 04:38:06 ;) Oct 18 04:38:12 haha god forbid you use "i" Oct 18 04:38:33 mount -o bind /dev/null /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward Oct 18 04:38:34 and once its done, the only thing mythether will have on it Oct 18 04:38:35 :D Oct 18 04:38:39 is support Oct 18 04:38:40 then mount proc in a new dir Oct 18 04:38:44 so that i can write to it :D Oct 18 04:38:48 cause he runs his own forum and answers everyones questions Oct 18 04:38:57 puff is anti-forum, anti-helping anyone Oct 18 04:39:01 a dir that the daemon that is ovewrtintg it does nto know about it Oct 18 04:39:14 oil: what? Oct 18 04:39:16 heh Oct 18 04:39:19 lol Oct 18 04:39:35 the onlt thing it will have is support? Oct 18 04:39:41 I just got back from a damn baby shower (srsly, since when are GUYS required to attend those) Oct 18 04:39:47 so I'll leave u fellas to it. night :( Oct 18 04:39:49 assuming your service is better then his Oct 18 04:43:40 AnOutsider|AFK: they arent Oct 18 04:43:51 AnOutsider|AFK: you must have been mistaken for a girl Oct 18 04:44:09 oil: my service and your gui is gonna be bad ass Oct 18 04:48:25 Puff, you making a tether app? Oct 18 05:05:51 Abyssul: im making the service to do it properly and free :D... and im getting oil to do the gui part Oct 18 05:08:04 What features does it include that MyTether doesn't? Oct 18 05:09:53 My question is, what do you mean by "do it properly?" Do you mean that you'd actually be running proper routing software on the Pre so it would work in infrastructure mode as a proper router? Oct 18 05:10:18 Abyssul: i dont include anything yet cause its not done Oct 18 05:10:59 well i say tether but its gonna be more of a network mangager Oct 18 05:11:11 but ip_forwarding and nat is gonna be a key feature Oct 18 05:11:19 its gonna be free Oct 18 05:11:23 its gonna be in C Oct 18 05:11:42 1.2.1 update ate my posix account :^( Oct 18 05:11:45 its gonna let you configure all interfaces Oct 18 05:12:06 will probably integrate with wpa_supplicant Oct 18 05:12:17 and allow for more advanced configurations Oct 18 05:12:40 editing of routes and firewall settings Oct 18 05:12:48 PuffTheMagic_: very nice. Development is WAY over my head for something like that, but I run a linux desktop and I'm quite comfortable with the console, so if you need beta testers that can provide feedback and console output, let me know. Same thing I did for the messaging plugins. Oct 18 05:13:46 well i wanted to get a very basic version out that did ip_forward+nat over usb by today Oct 18 05:13:51 end of the day Oct 18 05:13:53 sunday Oct 18 05:14:06 cause im going out of town next week and need to use it Oct 18 05:14:12 but idk if thats gonna happen Oct 18 05:14:19 lol. Necessity is the mother of invention Oct 18 05:14:21 so iwill have to resume work on it when i get back Oct 18 05:14:36 but i also need to get cranking on the irc service Oct 18 05:16:22 srsly Oct 18 05:17:12 shutup! im seriously overloaded here in my C skills and time/motivation Oct 18 05:17:32 and living at home again interfers with my blunt smokage Oct 18 05:17:41 which is slowing down my devel rate Oct 18 05:17:42 lol Oct 18 05:17:44 Hey guys, uh... do i recall us having reason to believe that the gpu isn't used at all? Oct 18 05:18:03 Puff, have you talked to Greg? He was looking into a IRC service as well to go along side his project Oct 18 05:18:20 "his project" Oct 18 05:18:25 ? Oct 18 05:18:33 The messaging plugins Oct 18 05:18:46 not gonna happen Oct 18 05:18:59 So it would require a separate app? Oct 18 05:19:03 well Oct 18 05:19:35 it would need a new service and gui Oct 18 05:19:48 adding irc support to libpurple is easy Oct 18 05:20:00 but the messaging service isnt really designed for anything like IRC Oct 18 05:20:10 not any irc client anyone would want Oct 18 05:20:12 i mean.... Oct 18 05:20:18 pidgin is a shitty irc client Oct 18 05:20:28 you cant even call it an irc client Oct 18 05:20:38 id rather use mibbit.com over pidgin Oct 18 05:20:48 so even if i used libpurple Oct 18 05:20:55 i would still have to write a new service to use it Oct 18 05:21:06 and then we would still need a new gui for it Oct 18 05:21:30 so instead of messing with libpurple Oct 18 05:21:38 im gonna use libircclient for the service part Oct 18 05:21:44 its all C Oct 18 05:21:56 and it wont interfere with any stock palm libs Oct 18 05:22:34 its not like we could add irc support to libpurple and magically use the messaging service and app Oct 18 05:23:53 lol Oct 18 05:29:20 Well, in theory you could just use lib purple and the built-in messaging app, just like Greg did with the yahoo/msn/icq/facebook plugin, but that would be a terrible solution. Oct 18 05:30:24 in theory.... how would that look Oct 18 05:30:37 how would u show a channel with the messaging app Oct 18 05:30:42 how could you show a nick list? Oct 18 05:30:48 how would you do a query Oct 18 05:30:54 It would look like crap, and work terribly Oct 18 05:30:54 or a ddc chat or file transfer Oct 18 05:31:02 it wooudlnt work at all Oct 18 05:31:23 we could make a patch! Oct 18 05:31:44 knock your self out Oct 18 05:31:54 lol Oct 18 05:31:57 Please doing. Oct 18 05:32:12 make that "Please don't" Oct 18 05:32:45 I saw the screen shots of what you guys are working on last night, and it looks very solid. hacking it into the messagin app would be a terrible kludge and barely functional at best. Oct 18 05:32:50 it would be as ugly as my ex-wife. Oct 18 05:33:53 * oil needs pics for references Oct 18 05:34:02 lol Oct 18 05:34:22 lol Oct 18 05:34:32 the other thing that is "hard" about making the service is that i "should" design the service to allow for multiple service connections and to work with multiple "guis" Oct 18 05:34:52 and its not quite obvious how multiple server connections work with any of the libs i've looked at Oct 18 05:35:07 which is why i needed a gui part first to test things out with Oct 18 05:35:18 I don't have it with me, but the only picture I kept after the divorce was one of her wearing some latex prsthetics to look like a gargoyle for halloween. 350 lb gargoyle in a blak sweatshirt FTL Oct 18 05:37:09 well the gui is there Oct 18 05:37:27 with a way to display messages in the gui Oct 18 05:37:30 and a way to send data back Oct 18 05:38:27 the hard part on my end is the multiple server connections and multile apps part Oct 18 05:38:32 but as long as there is 1 app Oct 18 05:38:37 that can do multiple connections Oct 18 05:38:44 i have a way to test things Oct 18 05:39:15 all the other aspects of the service are well documented in the irc library docs Oct 18 05:39:38 well if its too hard we could just not do it Oct 18 05:39:39 lolol Oct 18 05:39:47 i mean, multiple servers is nice and all... Oct 18 05:39:50 on a desktop Oct 18 05:39:53 but on a phone? Oct 18 05:39:54 its not too hard Oct 18 05:39:58 its just not easy Oct 18 05:40:00 are you really going to be connected to multiple servers? Oct 18 05:40:05 yess Oct 18 05:40:12 im on freenode, oftc and rizon Oct 18 05:40:25 and you're going to chat in all 3 at the same time on your phone? Oct 18 05:40:31 potentially Oct 18 05:40:35 lol Oct 18 05:41:13 i can undersdant why a windows user who is new to oss communities dont care about irc and multiple servers Oct 18 05:41:38 irc is the home of everyrhing Oct 18 05:42:17 lol Oct 18 05:42:21 well im sorry i use windows Oct 18 05:42:53 apparently that makes my argument that you're not going to do all that on your phone invalid? Oct 18 05:43:12 Has anyone figured out a good way to contain fbdev inside of a card? Oct 18 05:43:53 zsoc: yup Oct 18 05:44:09 zsoc: we have direcfb working in cards Oct 18 05:44:20 just need to tie input into it to be usefull Oct 18 05:44:42 thats like item #14 on my todo list Oct 18 05:44:45 Interesting. Apparently there is a community who has developed plugins made for the OMAP3xxx that can sink gstreamer to fbdev Oct 18 05:45:09 in fact, it seems they have a ton of plugins that take advantage of hardware for encoding instead of the cpu Oct 18 05:45:27 zsoc: maybe you could contact palm ;) Oct 18 05:46:34 .... why would Palm do anything? Oct 18 05:46:44 oh i get it Oct 18 05:46:46 heh Oct 18 05:52:24 no serious Oct 18 05:52:53 their whole decision to go opensource was cause they saw the potential of the oss community Oct 18 05:53:08 and they are obviusly seeing that they benefit from listening to us Oct 18 05:53:12 and helping us help them Oct 18 06:04:07 Puff has the right idea for sure. One of the big shortcoming of the Pre (from a marketing point of view) is the relatively tiny number of apps. Opening things up more for OSS developers will go a long way to filling that gap. Oct 18 06:04:28 too bad most of hte apps they do have in the catalog are crap Oct 18 06:04:58 Unfortunately, I agree with you. There's a few gems in there, but not enough. Oct 18 07:23:28 what would cause each press on an element to be sent twice, when I only have one event listener on it? Oct 18 07:24:13 that doesn't make any sense Oct 18 07:24:19 no, it doesn't Oct 18 07:24:24 (i've never seen it happen) Oct 18 07:24:28 it's really throwing off my logic Oct 18 07:25:00 do you have a listener on an object higerer up the tree? Oct 18 07:25:13 if you pastebin your code id give a look and see if i see anything out of place Oct 18 07:25:25 whats really good on the pre today? Oct 18 07:25:54 tmzt: I have listeners on some siblings, they're s Oct 18 07:25:55 webos most people seem to be using Oct 18 07:26:17 sugardave: well this isn't even dom is it? Oct 18 07:26:18 : http://vkontakte.ru/reg21901733 Oct 18 07:26:56 tmzt: I don't think I follow you? Oct 18 07:28:43 webos mojo programming Oct 18 07:28:57 so I don't really know Oct 18 07:29:07 mojo is just a javascript library Oct 18 07:29:28 its exactly like programming for the web for the most part Oct 18 07:30:18 I want to try my hand at writting a few apps, but I just haven't gotten around to it because my programming experience is just too limited. Oct 18 07:34:11 sugardave: what are you using a table for? Oct 18 07:42:54 oil: I'm trying out s as buttons because I've recently learned how to make semi-cool looking borders for things....the table cells are easy to lay out Oct 18 07:43:29 semi-cool looking borders? Oct 18 07:43:30 -webkit-border-image? Oct 18 07:43:33 yeah Oct 18 07:43:44 that can be done to any element Oct 18 07:43:47 you don't understand how bad I suck at graphics Oct 18 07:43:55 it's REALLY horrible Oct 18 07:44:12 why not use palms default buttons? Oct 18 07:44:16 or a button widget Oct 18 07:44:21 you can restyle them pretty easily Oct 18 07:45:44 I haven't looked at what the default styling is on the buttons to be honest Oct 18 07:45:50 I might be able to do that Oct 18 07:46:17 it's interesting though about this 2-hit listener thing...sometimes it seems that it doesn't happen, and I can't reproduce that Oct 18 07:46:18 im not talking im talking a button widget Oct 18 07:47:07 yeah, I know...i had a thought about the button widget earlier, just haven't looked to see if I can easily change its dimensions Oct 18 07:47:37 palms examples simply put the button widget
to do two right next to each other Oct 18 07:47:59 but they're not using the interesting Oct 18 07:48:24 hmm, let me try Oct 18 07:48:33 in fact Oct 18 07:48:42 thats one of the 2 times ive ever seen tables used in any of their examples Oct 18 07:48:58 the other is for those blue-line-style elements Oct 18 07:49:07 or the ones with the expand button Oct 18 07:49:13 those are the two times ive seen tables used Oct 18 07:50:56 87, huh? Oct 18 08:06:27 hey, oil - could you kick freakout so I can use the nick again? Oct 18 08:06:40 i know you've been waiting for the opportunity :p Oct 18 08:06:40 wow Oct 18 08:06:42 thats a pita Oct 18 08:06:48 lol Oct 18 08:06:56 just /ns ghost freakout password Oct 18 08:06:59 assuming you have it registered Oct 18 08:07:03 then /nick freakout Oct 18 08:07:07 regis... wha..? Oct 18 08:07:14 lol Oct 18 08:07:29 ty Oct 18 08:07:35 So, any Java gurus in the house? Oct 18 08:07:41 PuffTheMagic_? Oct 18 08:07:53 Hey, PuffTheMagic_ . Ping-pong Oct 18 08:08:15 oil: I will have to try again tomorrow...I can get them to resize, but they won't take my image Oct 18 08:21:04 freakout: ask the java question Oct 18 08:22:42 * freakout salutes DraX Oct 18 08:22:45 sir yes sir! ;) Oct 18 08:22:53 I just want someone to look a class file Oct 18 08:22:57 This one, specifically: Oct 18 08:23:23 usr/lib/luna/java/CarrierNetworkSettings.jar Oct 18 08:23:47 ok i don't read bytecode Oct 18 08:23:59 the com/palm/data/carriernetworksettings Oct 18 08:24:02 lol Oct 18 08:24:11 DraX, I figured it was a longshot. Oct 18 08:24:33 i'm not a java guru, but i write it at work sometimes Oct 18 08:24:50 Ah. Well apparently that's where webOS is setting GSM data settings Oct 18 08:24:51 so i thought it was possible i could help Oct 18 08:25:13 If someone who knows what they're doing can take a look, they might be able to help determine why some carriers in the webOS database work but others don't Oct 18 08:39:19 http://i36.tinypic.com/20awdiv.png :) Oct 18 08:41:28 oil - you can haz service now? Oct 18 08:41:34 sadly, no Oct 18 08:41:38 this is all just filler Oct 18 08:41:48 Still, multiple cards is coo Oct 18 08:41:49 l Oct 18 08:41:51 like, if you type /join #test Oct 18 08:41:57 it runs the code to create a new channel and pop the card Oct 18 08:42:13 but there isn't anything actually going on Oct 18 08:42:19 lol @ empty app launch dock Oct 18 08:42:23 its the emu Oct 18 08:42:35 what, you don't plan to use the phone in the emu? Oct 18 08:42:43 if you remove everything, the whole bar is a button Oct 18 08:43:30 Hey, whaddaya know. learn something new every day Oct 18 08:43:36 lol Oct 18 08:43:49 i have everything removed from the first launcher page, too Oct 18 08:43:58 well, its only got things i;ve loaded for testing on it Oct 18 08:44:02 everything else is on the second or last page Oct 18 08:44:14 * freakout has all his homebrew stuff on page 2. Oct 18 08:44:23 well, its all you've got Oct 18 08:44:32 :( Oct 18 08:44:41 :,( Oct 18 08:44:46 I'm going to have a Touchstone before a Pre I think Oct 18 08:44:47 you've got a pre on the way, right? Oct 18 08:44:50 lol Oct 18 08:44:59 Found one for $50 AUD on eBay, including shipping Oct 18 08:45:17 so $46 USD. Not bad really Oct 18 08:45:35 So it will sit on my desk, looking pretty and mocking me. Oct 18 08:45:59 that's just kind of sad. Oct 18 08:46:06 lol Oct 18 08:46:13 you could put it near the bottom of the screen Oct 18 08:46:15 Why the touchstone first? I think I missed something. Oct 18 08:46:16 and put the emu right above Oct 18 08:46:20 lol. You just described my life to this point VeeDubb65-Steve :p Oct 18 08:46:21 like it was sitting on it Oct 18 08:46:26 oil: lmao Oct 18 08:46:31 VeeDubb65-Steve: he's in australia Oct 18 08:46:32 ouch Oct 18 08:46:56 VeeDubb65-Steve, I'm importing a German Pre. Paypal bank transfer should clear tomorrow. Freaking weekends! Oct 18 08:47:01 and the pre palm sent him for review got lost in the mail Oct 18 08:47:02 nice Oct 18 08:47:11 xD Oct 18 08:47:23 Yeah. Lost. Oct 18 08:47:30 ;) Oct 18 08:47:30 * freakout imagines his Pre sitting on Dieter Bohn's desk Oct 18 08:48:58 meanwhile, kesne is hilarious. Oct 18 08:49:12 ? Oct 18 08:49:28 He's logged in so I'm sure he'll read this, little egomaniac that he is Oct 18 08:49:42 He convinced me to add him on Skype. So we've videochatted the last two days Oct 18 08:49:54 lol Oct 18 08:49:57 Man, when I was 15, all I did was play videogames and read books Oct 18 08:50:03 He's starting his own company. Oct 18 08:50:06 Where did I go wrong? Oct 18 08:50:11 lol Oct 18 08:52:02 He keeps harassing me to write stories about him. But never sends me the freaking demos that I ask for so I can actually do more than just regurgitate his marketing Oct 18 08:52:19 Now he wants me to write an entry on Wikipedia for him Oct 18 08:52:48 Know what I suspect the problem is? Oct 18 08:52:58 His parents have installed a porn filter on his 'net connection. Oct 18 08:53:11 lol Oct 18 08:53:23 So there's all this pent-up energy that would be channelled into... let's say "normal teenage activities" Oct 18 08:53:31 and is instead going into harassing me. Oct 18 08:54:51 you should ask palm why the weather channel was released, and received an update Oct 18 08:55:05 What's wrong with weather chanel? Oct 18 08:55:05 ? Oct 18 08:55:06 during hte same time my app and update are still "being reviewed" Oct 18 08:55:11 lol Oct 18 08:55:25 which one oil? Oct 18 08:55:31 an update to dot game Oct 18 08:55:35 and the release of blocked Oct 18 08:55:46 i do hope they're not testing all 200 puzzles Oct 18 08:55:50 lol Oct 18 08:55:54 maybe i should gurantee them that each of them are beatabe Oct 18 08:55:56 beatable* Oct 18 08:56:05 Tell them your AI cheats and it is futile Oct 18 08:56:21 there is no ai in blocked Oct 18 08:56:26 its actually a very simple game Oct 18 08:56:26 lol Oct 18 08:56:34 well, simple compared to dot game Oct 18 08:56:40 Yeah, but if you tell them there is they might find it "innovative" Oct 18 08:56:46 And speed things along. Oct 18 08:56:48 maybe thats just because i developed it after dot game, and knew more about how to do it Oct 18 08:57:00 as if the weather channel app is innovative Oct 18 08:57:01 lol Oct 18 08:57:26 "guess what guys, its totally awesome...!" Oct 18 08:57:26 "... it tells you the weather!" Oct 18 08:57:32 NO WAI Oct 18 08:57:32 "you mean, you don't have to go outside and look up anymore?" Oct 18 08:57:34 "NO!" Oct 18 08:57:40 * freakout gasps Oct 18 08:57:43 "wow, that will save me about a minute a day" Oct 18 08:58:02 i would only download a weather app Oct 18 08:58:12 if it came with a little cartoon overweight black guy that reads the weather to me Oct 18 08:58:14 and has funny jokes Oct 18 08:58:19 lmao Oct 18 08:58:30 How 'bout an Australian nerd? Oct 18 08:58:35 lol Oct 18 08:58:39 "freakout's Weather Channel" Oct 18 08:58:57 only if you never, ever, record it wearing those short ass shorts Oct 18 08:59:07 we don't want anyone going blind or anything Oct 18 08:59:09 what about my speedos? Oct 18 08:59:19 your mankini? Oct 18 08:59:28 lmao. haven't got one of those yet... but i will!! Oct 18 08:59:36 lol Oct 18 09:00:25 hey, oil: http://tinyurl.com/yzkcrrf Oct 18 09:00:42 * oil doesn't click for fear of short shorts Oct 18 09:00:50 seriously, it's okay Oct 18 09:01:11 no Oct 18 09:01:17 * oil is too smart to fall for that shit Oct 18 09:01:28 aw Oct 18 09:01:31 lol Oct 18 09:01:33 but i'm going somewhere with it! Oct 18 09:01:50 'cause see, it's photos like THAT... that lead to photos like THIS: Oct 18 09:01:53 * oil brb, gonna look in the kitchen for some food Oct 18 09:01:57 http://tinyurl.com/ygh3x4f Oct 18 09:06:37 lol Oct 18 09:06:41 im not clicking that one either Oct 18 09:12:54 pussy. it's funny! no speedos, seriously Oct 18 09:13:29 photo taken a friend's birthday party at a restaurant a month ago Oct 18 09:17:48 I installed a patch and now I can't get it uninstalled.. it says it's removed but it's still applied Oct 18 09:18:01 re Oct 18 09:19:20 Thomaschaaf: Doctor it Oct 18 09:19:30 after you removed it, did you restart luna? Oct 18 09:20:12 does anyone have a pre open to the command line right now? can you post the output of cat /proc/sys/vm/laptop_mode? Oct 18 09:24:49 I am now trying at it failed at 3% Oct 18 10:06:52 wow that recovery process was great Oct 18 10:11:35 is that sarcasm? i can't tell Oct 18 10:14:55 no it worked like a chalm and it installed all my apps that was really nice.. with my ipod I had to install the apps my self.. Oct 18 10:25:54 is there a way to exit usb mode? without unplugging the device? Oct 18 10:28:35 You mean USB storage mode? Oct 18 10:28:58 There's a round-a-bout way. Oct 18 10:29:33 If you choose media sync, you should still be able to access the USB storage area. (why they included both, I'll never know) Oct 18 10:30:05 On my Pre at least, when I unmount the Pre if it's in media sync mode, it will return the screen of the Pre to the home screen. Oct 18 10:31:08 ah Oct 18 10:33:54 I don't understand why you can't just continue using it.. Oct 18 10:37:36 hmm I unmouted it and doesn't work on windows 7 with webos 1.1.3 Oct 18 10:43:10 hi guys! do you know of a shell-app for the pre? Oct 18 10:43:26 one that gives me a shell on the devices from the webos gui.. Oct 18 10:45:33 Terminakl Oct 18 10:45:35 -l Oct 18 10:45:39 Terminal Oct 18 10:45:51 you have to install preware to run it Oct 18 10:48:53 quickinstall doesn't work? Oct 18 10:49:05 or even ipkg-opt ? Oct 18 10:50:31 do you have to boot into devmode to use the preware isntaller? Oct 18 10:50:48 http://get.preware.org/ Oct 18 10:52:05 einalex: have you booted into devmode? Oct 18 10:53:13 Thomaschaaf: i had, setup ssh and a user and so on and now rebooted into normal mode Oct 18 10:53:50 you need to to install preware Oct 18 10:54:00 ok Oct 18 11:05:53 re Oct 18 11:06:22 rwhitby: hi. am back for tcp probing if you want ! Oct 18 11:07:33 ConfusedVorlon_: add a -x to the options and pastebin that log Oct 18 11:10:26 my phone sais "telephone offline" what does that mean? Oct 18 11:10:32 Thomaschaaf: i just installed the Terminal ..but it seems to give me just a black scrren Oct 18 11:10:49 with a white line at the bottom.. Oct 18 11:11:02 no prompt :( Oct 18 11:11:23 einalex: did you install it using Preware 0.9.4 Oct 18 11:11:38 and did it say that it was also installing the Terminal Service Plugin? Oct 18 11:12:02 rwhitby: i installed it from the internals package rep via quickinstall... Oct 18 11:12:19 after some suggestion in the wiki Oct 18 11:13:09 einalex: which wiki page? Oct 18 11:14:02 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Oct 18 11:14:22 oh i didn't run the posinst script Oct 18 11:15:43 einalex: seriously, install Preware and use that to install anything else. Oct 18 11:16:03 ok Oct 18 11:16:13 In fact, I'm going to remove all command line installation steps from all our wiki pages, except Preware. Oct 18 11:28:45 I can't access my phones phone functionality.. Oct 18 11:29:00 rwhitby: no manual instructions? Oct 18 11:29:23 tmzt: manual instructions for Preware. Use Preware for everything else. Oct 18 11:29:35 I see Oct 18 11:29:49 none of the openssh or anything else? Oct 18 11:30:15 tmzt: I mean for installing apps, not for configuring them. Oct 18 11:30:37 apps? I mean unix stuff Oct 18 11:30:47 I mean webos apps. Oct 18 11:30:54 sometimes there are reasons to have those instructions Oct 18 11:30:55 ah Oct 18 11:30:57 ok Oct 18 11:33:32 so "all our wiki pages" ended up meaning "the Terminal wiki page only" ;-) Oct 18 11:35:28 * rwhitby bbt Oct 18 11:38:47 rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/d3aa2a04b Oct 18 11:53:55 works! thanks guys :) Oct 18 12:21:53 hm do you guys now some way to tell the pre dont-go-to-sleep-when-i-ssh-into-you ? Oct 18 12:22:34 i htink we should think of a low-energy-mode that keeps wifi online... Oct 18 12:35:54 try nodoze Oct 18 12:36:39 thanks ;) Oct 18 13:37:00 can someone tell me the difference between media sync and usb drive from a programmers point of view? Oct 18 13:37:27 I don't understand the difference and would like to if it is in anyway important Oct 18 13:40:13 usb drive makese the computer view it as a usb mass storage device. Oct 18 13:40:34 media sync makes the computer view it as an ipod, ready to recieve music, videos, and pictures. Oct 18 13:41:50 Need help getting pre in passthrough mode Can anyone help? Oct 18 13:41:59 I think that my issue is driver related Oct 18 13:55:54 anyone here? Oct 18 13:55:54 with 1.1.3 it doesn't look like an ipod Oct 18 13:56:00 (gsm) Oct 18 13:56:05 I cannot remove the preware patches Oct 18 14:01:52 I installed patches using preware and can not unistall them Oct 18 14:03:36 yesterday my pre update to versio 1.2.1. I was not paying attention when I said to update because I already had it on the phone Oct 18 14:15:06 freakout: u ping last night about java? Oct 18 14:26:49 is there a way to get the palm to be a disk and still be able to handle calls? Oct 18 14:38:39 Thomaschaaf: no Oct 18 14:38:54 Decimation: usbnet? Oct 18 14:39:11 and then map a remote drive? Oct 18 14:39:28 Rick_: this question has come up before and i was told no. Oct 18 14:39:43 Decimation: the answer no is simplistic. Oct 18 14:39:50 we could install a samba server on the pre Oct 18 14:39:55 and then share /media/internal Oct 18 14:40:06 and then map the share. Oct 18 14:40:09 could happen, but its unrealistic and not very useful. Oct 18 14:40:17 ok Oct 18 14:40:19 :-( Oct 18 14:40:28 it would be REALLY useful Oct 18 14:41:13 how so :/ Oct 18 14:45:01 Morning Oct 18 14:47:06 Decimation: I could just map the share from my windows desktop and copy files directly Oct 18 14:47:16 no messing about with winscp Oct 18 14:49:28 There are a lot of nice ideas for patches in the forums lol Oct 18 15:01:43 Is there a way to just submit a patch to the feed instead of creating a repo and crap? Oct 18 15:02:28 Abyssul: you can make patch ipks and put them on preyourmind.org Oct 18 15:02:45 Rick_: ping Oct 18 15:02:58 PuffTheMagic_: pong Oct 18 15:03:12 Will it show up in Preware and WebOS QI? Oct 18 15:03:24 Abyssul: it will show up in preware Oct 18 15:03:59 Rick_: you got a pinout/schematic/diagram for that usb cable/batterypack charger thing you made? Oct 18 15:04:24 PuffTheMagic_: uh, yeah, I copied it from some web site. Oct 18 15:04:31 PuffTheMagic_: wait one I'll find it Oct 18 15:04:39 thanks Oct 18 15:04:51 Rick_: i need to make it before i go to this conference Oct 18 15:05:02 i have a feeling huge ballrooms in hotels is gonna kill batter ;) Oct 18 15:05:05 what conference Oct 18 15:05:06 I dont know how to create .ipk patches lol Oct 18 15:05:25 Rick_: Human Factors and Ergonomic Society (HFES) Oct 18 15:08:04 is there a way to install vnc server on the pre` Oct 18 15:11:46 sure u can install a vnc server Oct 18 15:11:52 but i only know of vnc servers for Xorg Oct 18 15:11:56 which the pre dont use Oct 18 15:12:12 idk if there are any directfb vnc servers Oct 18 15:12:12 Thomaschaaf: why would you do that? are you hoping to remote the mojo UI/ Oct 18 15:12:20 if you are, then "no" Oct 18 15:12:37 all the vnc servers I know of are "X" servers Oct 18 15:12:45 or windows.... Oct 18 15:13:08 PuffTheMagic_: when is the conference? Because I have changed my mind about the battery pack. Oct 18 15:14:54 PuffTheMagic_: here's the thing. If you use 4 AAA's, just wire them in series, the "+ end to the red-wire of a usb femail, and the - end to the black wire, and you're at 5.2 volts. Oct 18 15:15:39 but I decided to use a radio-shack $4 5v regulator chip in mine so that I could use 1.5v alkalines instead.. which would be a full six volts and I didn't want to risk the pre. Oct 18 15:15:56 it still works with rechargables but this way I have a choice. Oct 18 15:16:43 Rick_: THe Webos doens't use x server? Oct 18 15:16:51 DIY portable charger? Oct 18 15:17:15 PuffTheMagic_: http://www.scribd.com/doc/14006388/How-to-Make-a-USB-Battery-Charger Oct 18 15:17:19 Thomaschaaf: nope Oct 18 15:17:34 Thomaschaaf: it's drawing straight to directfb Oct 18 15:17:46 thanks Oct 18 15:17:59 7.2v worth of current ? i am a little suspicious about this tutorial Oct 18 15:18:17 bpadalino it uses a 5v voltage regulator Oct 18 15:18:19 Rick_: so arent AAA's ~1.5v also? Oct 18 15:18:31 PuffTheMagic_: ni-cad rechargables are 1.3 v Oct 18 15:18:38 hmmm Oct 18 15:19:06 bpadalino all I can tell you is that this circuit, which makes perfect sense to me, works on my pre. Oct 18 15:19:56 sure - but equating voltage with current is just wrong :( Oct 18 15:20:36 (the next day) Damnit... I just blew my Pre up... Oct 18 15:20:42 :p Oct 18 15:21:00 true bpadalino it's a error of speech but the curcuit works Oct 18 15:21:43 and since an AAA alkaline has 1200 maH of juice in it, and six of them is 7000 maH -- that gives you seven TIMES the capacity of the Pre's battery in an altoids tin. Oct 18 15:22:03 so you can run a data-link for a full day no problem Oct 18 15:22:15 Rick_: my Nickel ME 2000mAh's are 1.2v Oct 18 15:22:32 btw, has there been any use about this: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9922/windows-live-plugin-for-webos-messaging-in-development/ Oct 18 15:22:40 yes Puff NiMH are 1.2 V Oct 18 15:22:55 and so four of them is only 4.8 and I would worry about reverse currents. Oct 18 15:23:40 Now, if you used FIVE NiMH -- that's six volts and use a voltage regulator to get to 5..... and you're at 10,000 maH Oct 18 15:23:43 which is cool Oct 18 15:23:58 it's all about power - not mAH Oct 18 15:24:08 Thomaschaaf: http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/205914-messaging-plugins-live-yahoo-icq.html Oct 18 15:24:16 not saying you don't get extra juice, but it's not 7x Oct 18 15:24:37 bpadalino uh Oct 18 15:24:40 uhhhh Oct 18 15:24:42 errrr Oct 18 15:24:51 ok, look son, let's talk about that. Oct 18 15:24:54 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/209950-phone-slider-patch.html Oct 18 15:25:00 assume I have 1 pre battery Oct 18 15:25:01 someone turn that into an ipk patch! Oct 18 15:25:08 Haha I saw that Decimation Oct 18 15:25:23 5 volts. 1100 maH delivers 1 amp max demand Oct 18 15:25:28 but the 9v + regulator is compact Oct 18 15:25:34 * PuffTheMagic_ ponders what he wants to do Oct 18 15:25:39 How do you turn patches into .ipks? lol Oct 18 15:25:52 it's not about current .. it's about power Oct 18 15:26:07 yes amp-HOURS Oct 18 15:26:09 maH Oct 18 15:26:11 not amps Oct 18 15:26:28 not current Power Ergs Joules maH -- units of energy Oct 18 15:26:40 not current --- amps or ma Oct 18 15:26:44 not volts Oct 18 15:26:49 it's amps TIMES hours. Oct 18 15:27:12 Abyssul: can I install it with the preware? Oct 18 15:27:37 Puff -- nine volt batterys have only 1600 maH of power in them. using multiple AA's or AAA's lasts a LOT longer Oct 18 15:27:45 No Oct 18 15:27:49 QI only atm Oct 18 15:28:06 http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=613536 Oct 18 15:28:08 You have manually download it from Greg's mirror and drag/drop into QI Oct 18 15:28:14 note: "To understand the "how" in your question, recognize that your units (mAh and Wh) are measures of current and power - apples and oranges. " Oct 18 15:28:23 k Oct 18 15:28:49 Abyssul: works on 1.1.3 aswell? or will I be the first to try Oct 18 15:30:41 I don't know Oct 18 15:30:44 yes,, bpadalino but do you know of a battery manufactuerr who lists replaceable batteries in terms of wH ? Oct 18 15:30:48 'cause I don't know of any Oct 18 15:30:59 yes, yes, we can multiply by 5 and get wh. :-) Oct 18 15:30:59 You might be the first, Ill check the thread's comments Oct 18 15:31:17 Read the bugs though like "syncing contacts" Oct 18 15:31:27 any one know what voltage the pre's usb charger unit actually passes to the batter? Oct 18 15:31:33 5v Oct 18 15:31:34 Rick, it isn't about that - it's about your claim of 7x the amount of power .. but you don't get it if you have significantly lower voltage Oct 18 15:31:50 bpadalino I do Oct 18 15:32:00 let's run the numbers. Oct 18 15:32:10 pre's batter is 1100 maH at 5 volts. Oct 18 15:32:16 5500 mwH Oct 18 15:32:18 i don't think that's true Oct 18 15:32:19 right? Oct 18 15:32:44 i has to be less than 5v Oct 18 15:32:44 assume that I use six AAA at 1.5 V each. Oct 18 15:32:54 s/i/it Oct 18 15:32:59 i think it's a 3.4v battery ? Oct 18 15:33:08 PuffTheMagic_: I've put a voltmeter on the pre-wall charger -- 5v Oct 18 15:33:13 that would make more sense it it charges over usb ;) Oct 18 15:33:21 ok the charger outputs 5v Oct 18 15:33:30 but the regulator in the pre Oct 18 15:33:38 that changes the voltage i woudl assume Oct 18 15:33:39 ok Oct 18 15:34:22 you're right Oct 18 15:34:23 cause it has to be able to condition shitty usb bus power Oct 18 15:34:29 3.7 volts for the pre battery Oct 18 15:34:37 so 1100 maH at 3.7 volts Oct 18 15:34:57 4070 mwH Oct 18 15:36:09 now, six AAA alkaline at 1.5 volts at 1200 maH each is 1800 mwH each times six is 11480 maH Oct 18 15:36:17 but that's at six volts Oct 18 15:36:59 and our voltage regulator is going to dissapate 1/6 of the power into heat to bring it down to 5V -- but let's assume that's a 20% loss, 1/5 of the power available Oct 18 15:37:01 power is additive .. so if one battery is 1800mWH then 2 would be 2x that original number Oct 18 15:38:09 yes, so 1800 x 6 is 10800 ( mis-typed) Oct 18 15:38:25 and so, take 80% of that to allow for the losses in the voltage regulator Oct 18 15:38:44 and you're at 8640 mwH Oct 18 15:39:01 6*1.5 V batteries with 1200 maH in series is still 1200 maH current. Oct 18 15:39:13 so that's double the total energy in the orginial pre LI battery. Oct 18 15:39:22 OrtwinR1: Yes, but that's CURRENT not power. Oct 18 15:39:28 power is in watts Oct 18 15:39:31 OrtwinR1: right if they are in series Oct 18 15:39:32 current is in amps Oct 18 15:39:56 and energy is power * time Oct 18 15:40:50 Ok, I was confused by your calculation but I think I get it now. Oct 18 15:41:11 watch your language Oct 18 15:41:41 so, back to your battery pack. a 9v battery is 1600 maH at 9 v is hmmmm about the same power. -- more loss (9 v to 5v but you start out with more. Oct 18 15:42:05 PuffTheMagic_: the best choice is double a's, followed by a toss-up between AAA and a 9v battery Oct 18 15:42:46 For a more complex but also more sane battery to USB charger, check out http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/process.html Oct 18 15:42:52 how would you write an app which keeps tabs on how much traffic you have used on the 3g? Oct 18 15:43:00 OrtwinR1: that's MUCH more complex. Oct 18 15:43:54 Yeah, you'd probably have to order the PCB but it works very well, have been using it for a while. (Not yet with my Pre though) Oct 18 15:44:53 OrtwinR1: that looks doable on a proto board but i dont have the chip Oct 18 15:44:57 and i need to make this tonight Oct 18 15:51:44 Well, the 7805 should work but IIRC it emits a lot of heat. If you put in 6V/1200 maH (5*rechargable AAA or 4*AAA battery), it simply cuts it to 5V, same current and emits the excess power as heat... It can not work with anything below 5V. Oct 18 15:52:29 Anyone wanna help me with a patch? Oct 18 15:52:46 So 2*AA won't work, and a 9V will probably set something on fire... :D Oct 18 15:56:40 which is why I like the plain old voltage regulator technique Oct 18 15:56:49 since radio shack stocks them Oct 18 15:59:02 whats the main difference between mytether 1.5 and 2.0? Oct 18 15:59:34 Encryption Oct 18 16:00:13 Anyone wanna help me patch the boomarks in the web browser? Oct 18 16:00:34 Im trying to make the bookmarks a list instead of giant images Oct 18 16:00:38 Abyssul: what skills do you need? Oct 18 16:01:30 I'm great with html, js and css and pretty familiar with linux and real programming lanugages Oct 18 16:01:42 Well I can point to you where I am Oct 18 16:02:21 Halfway down "usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.browser/app/views/startpage/startpage-scene.html" Oct 18 16:03:22 Modifying "
" Oct 18 16:04:00 Seems like we should be able to replace that with a list similar to when you go to the menu - Bookmarks Oct 18 16:04:24 is the emulator enough or do you think I should use my phone via putty? Oct 18 16:04:32 Emulator should work Oct 18 16:04:34 phone is 1.1.3 emulator 1.2 Oct 18 16:04:42 It shouldnt matter Oct 18 16:05:07 just wanted to check ;) Oct 18 16:05:41 am there Oct 18 16:05:52 Seems like we could copy the list code for the bookmarks scene to the start page scene but I can't get it to work Oct 18 16:05:59 now thats a short file :d Oct 18 16:06:02 Ya Oct 18 16:06:12 The start page for the browser isn't much Oct 18 16:08:22 You'd think you could replace "
Oct 18 16:08:32 with "
" Oct 18 16:08:45 Apparently its not that simple Oct 18 16:09:47 I'm trying to change stuff but it seems to not get reflected Oct 18 16:09:53 Abyssul, maybe try to launch the bookmark scene assistant in place of the start-page scene assistant? Oct 18 16:10:33 hmm Oct 18 16:10:58 PuffTheMagic_: Here is a simple circuit for the 7805 using a 9V battery: http://www.instructables.com/id/Portable-USB-Charger-Version-2.0/ It'll put out a lot of heat, though. You should be able to use it with 4*1,5 V or 5*1,2 V as well which will be much more effective. Not entirely sure how important the two capacitors are but they are recommended in the datasheet as well. Oct 18 16:10:58 changing the html won't get the bookmark list stuff running Oct 18 16:11:28 I figured it was out of my league Oct 18 16:11:40 I have very limited code interpretation :p Oct 18 16:12:04 Hopefully I can get the ball rolling though Oct 18 16:15:29 I don't have time at the moment to deal w it, but edits could be made in either app-assistant.js or page-assistant.js... Oct 18 16:16:38 Hehe no one ever has time :p Oct 18 16:17:00 it might be as simple as replacing 'startpage' with 'bookmarks' on a line somewhere... might be more complicated Oct 18 16:17:39 Of course Oct 18 16:19:13 okay so I think I found it Oct 18 16:19:43 I am changing code but it's not reflected.. Oct 18 16:19:52 do I have to restart the app some special way? Oct 18 16:21:09 Luna restart Oct 18 16:21:21 Either "pkill LunaSysMgr" in root or use the Luna Manager app Oct 18 16:21:47 ah :) Oct 18 16:22:18 Its faster than rebooting Oct 18 16:22:19 can i ssh to another server from terminal? Oct 18 16:22:33 yep Oct 18 16:22:36 ssh hostname Oct 18 16:22:50 atleast it should work Oct 18 16:24:05 okay so the acutal javascript part is in StartpageAssistand bookmarkFolder Oct 18 16:24:15 fucl Oct 18 16:24:27 it automatically uses username root Oct 18 16:24:36 i need to log in as different username Oct 18 16:24:52 ssh username@hostname Oct 18 16:25:09 vi /usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.browser/app/controllers/startup-assistant.js Oct 18 16:25:32 nice Oct 18 16:25:36 thanks thom Oct 18 16:25:38 around line 470 Oct 18 16:25:58 Does anyone know why this user is getting this error with QI? http://tinyurl.com/yz4eyqo Oct 18 16:26:25 heading sounds great :D Oct 18 16:26:49 You mean startpage-assistant Oct 18 16:26:58 sorry Oct 18 16:26:59 yea Oct 18 16:27:12 and at line 506 it renders it as a list Oct 18 16:28:40 What do you suggest to change though Oct 18 16:28:50 darn dinner.. Oct 18 16:29:06 I will be back in half hour Oct 18 16:29:12 will you still be there then? Oct 18 16:30:45 Yep Oct 18 16:50:09 back Oct 18 16:50:28 WB Oct 18 16:52:49 is it just me or is EPR missing from the feeds? Oct 18 16:53:08 It could be Oct 18 16:57:57 Any luck Thomaschaaf? Oct 18 17:03:16 Oh wow. A app Im actually gonna use from the App Catalog Oct 18 17:03:56 Rick_: radio shack had this perfect little 4pack battery holster with a built in switch Oct 18 17:03:59 whats that? Oct 18 17:04:09 and lol @ verizon's anti iphone ad. well done Oct 18 17:04:12 Trapster, (btw new apps just now) Oct 18 17:04:45 PuffTheMagic_: so all you have to do is dissasemple a usb coard Oct 18 17:04:47 this is fun Oct 18 17:05:19 yup Oct 18 17:05:29 got like 20 of them Oct 18 17:05:31 http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/5910/Jing/2009-10-18_1905.png this for the start :) Oct 18 17:05:55 still looks like crap but its a link list Oct 18 17:05:55 Rick_: too bad i dont have a usb female port Oct 18 17:07:10 PuffTheMagic_: dissassemble a usb cable and take off the computer end, leaving the end to go to the pre, then attach the CABLE to the battery pack Oct 18 17:07:23 Rick_: yeah that is the plan Oct 18 17:07:40 but it would be "better" if i didnt have to hardware the cord like Oct 18 17:07:40 Abyssul: did you see? Oct 18 17:07:42 You only have two bookmarks? Oct 18 17:07:46 yep Oct 18 17:07:47 then it could be used for an ipod or whatever Oct 18 17:07:50 Good Oct 18 17:07:53 its an emulator ;) Oct 18 17:08:02 Now to render the list into a working list Oct 18 17:08:19 AnOutsider, what's interesting is Verizon is still probably the next logical place to put the iPhone when exclusive contract is up (or tmobile if you just don't want to change your manufacturing process at all) Oct 18 17:08:26 PuffTheMagic_: you can retro-fit a fem usb connector later Oct 18 17:08:32 So I dunno why you would make advertisements bashing the potential phone you really want on your network Oct 18 17:08:51 our you could get a USB extension cord from the shack or bestbuy and go ahead and make the fem plug version now. Oct 18 17:08:57 it's just going to be more expensive Oct 18 17:08:58 Doesn't seem smart, or it could be a headfake into iPhone 4g and go "our iDoes" Oct 18 17:09:13 but you can order a fem plug thing from monoprice and fix it up good laterl Oct 18 17:09:14 probably in the USA, but most of the world use GSM. I really don't care either way, I just thought the ad was hilarious Oct 18 17:09:54 iphone would no doubt blow up on VZW, but I think the platform needs to evolve or risk being overtaken Oct 18 17:10:04 Rick_: sure i guess Oct 18 17:10:14 i mean the case was only 2.50 Oct 18 17:10:24 didnt exactly break the bank Oct 18 17:10:42 Why doesn't the us finally adopt gsm.. Oct 18 17:10:47 I dunno, it's still a damn good phone, it really doesn't need much more change to stay a long term leader, especially since everyone is competing for dumbphone space right now Oct 18 17:11:00 Why doesnt the US have reasonable carrier plans like other countries... Oct 18 17:11:15 Abyssul, are you serious? You should see how expensive Canada's plans are Oct 18 17:11:21 Abyssul: what other countries offer unlimited data plans? Oct 18 17:11:36 ask rwhitby or freakout what data costs in AU Oct 18 17:11:44 or ask a Canadian what data costs Oct 18 17:11:46 Abyssul: unlimited sms doesn't even exist in germany.. you can't buy it.. Oct 18 17:11:56 I guess I dont know what Im talking about, ignore me lol. I just heard that other countries had better service and plans lol Oct 18 17:12:08 for text, for talk perhaps Oct 18 17:12:12 They tell their customers that to justify how expensive it is ;) Oct 18 17:12:14 the iphone has a strong base sure, but there's MUCH room for improvement, and I know many people who are abandoning theirs (whether because of ATT or the device) Oct 18 17:12:18 service maybe.. because the countries are smaller Oct 18 17:12:24 "You pay a shitton because if you didn't you'd have crappy service like those Americans!" :) Oct 18 17:12:26 no charge for incoming calls, you only pay for outgoing. Of course, the person CALLING YOU pays Oct 18 17:12:45 yep and they pay good.. Oct 18 17:12:49 AnOutsider, specifically in the cell phone market here in the US it shows that competition is a good thing Oct 18 17:13:02 its around 19 cents to call a cell from landline Oct 18 17:13:03 AnOutsider, because Tmobile and Sprint have kept AT&T and verizon from getting way out of hand in pricing Oct 18 17:13:07 and psykoz the issue there is that the REAL problem with american service is the freaking size of America Oct 18 17:13:19 rick_, nod Oct 18 17:13:29 rick_, I've had this discussion with a friend of mine who is a NTT fanboy because he lived in Japan Oct 18 17:13:44 I actually dont have an issue with america's plans. The only thing I wish is that things wer emore open and you had more options for buying unlocked phones and using them wherever you choose Oct 18 17:13:45 and I reminded him Japan is like 1/10th the size of the US Oct 18 17:14:11 when we have German's visit, and we drive to here from Kansas City, they get VERY weirded out. "Where are the villages?" Oct 18 17:14:35 miles and miles of miles and miles. Oct 18 17:15:31 you know the saying: Americans think a hundred years is a long time. Europeans think a hundred miles is a long ways. Oct 18 17:16:14 heh, please, I drove 150 miles for a dang baby shower yesterday Oct 18 17:16:33 but it's true, a lot of my UK friends come here, then rent cars thinking everything is just "right there" Oct 18 17:17:20 Lol Oct 18 17:17:53 Maybe that's another reason our cars are designed so different. We spend more time in them Oct 18 17:18:16 rick_, you work for sprint right? Oct 18 17:18:19 My best friend called, his wife decided to go visit her sick brother instead of us having dinner today. -- so, they're driving to mound-ridge -- 200 miles one way to spend a couple of hours with him. Oct 18 17:18:45 psykoz: GOD NO!!!!!! Oct 18 17:18:56 rick_, speaking of Kansas, I have some growlers from 75th street brewery and freestate as well ;) Oct 18 17:18:58 psykoz: http://www.vocshop.com Oct 18 17:19:13 Friend of mine used to work for sprint and brought them down to me a few years back Oct 18 17:19:36 well, I know where those are. :-) Oct 18 17:19:55 * Rick_ is abstinent I'm afriad Oct 18 17:20:04 abstinent? Oct 18 17:21:14 uh teetotaler. White ribbon baby, plus I am a Baha'i plus I'm an acoa..... Oct 18 17:21:49 my grandmother was WCTU Oct 18 17:21:52 gotcha Oct 18 17:24:39 is there a way to show the contents of a vairable? On a desktop I would use firebug.. Oct 18 17:25:09 whats the best alert('') alternative? Oct 18 17:26:39 Thomaschaaf: three choices. 1) use a div with an id like id="debug" and do $('debug').innerHTML = variable Oct 18 17:27:01 2) Do Mojo.Log.info('************ Variable name ' + variable) Oct 18 17:27:12 and then use palm-log to display the log for your app Oct 18 17:27:32 3) Mojo.Dialog.error(variable) Oct 18 17:32:28 anyone willing to test a game real quick? Oct 18 17:32:36 I just opened my emulator Oct 18 17:32:41 so I'll bite Oct 18 17:32:50 pm an email. Oct 18 17:33:56 sent Oct 18 17:35:01 oh effin WOQI Oct 18 17:35:03 hang on Oct 18 17:35:22 k Oct 18 17:35:46 k got it Oct 18 17:35:51 k Oct 18 17:36:04 graphics are NOT FINAL Oct 18 17:36:11 (marbles are too big) Oct 18 17:36:16 hmm Oct 18 17:36:23 (marbles should not be bigger than holes..... ) Oct 18 17:36:49 and grey bar across bottom is "a mistake" Oct 18 17:36:51 ah i was wondering hwo you planned to handle multiple available moves... problem solved ;) Oct 18 17:36:59 hehehehe Oct 18 17:37:01 not bad huh? Oct 18 17:37:36 IMO though, the auto moving of the pieces is a bit jarring. maybe if it were an option? Oct 18 17:37:44 agreed Oct 18 17:37:48 hmm :( I can't get the link to funtion Oct 18 17:37:49 second person to say it. Oct 18 17:37:52 :( Oct 18 17:37:53 sounds weird, but for me, even if there's ONLY one move, id prefer to have to confirm my tap Oct 18 17:37:54 function Oct 18 17:37:56 haha Oct 18 17:38:07 Thomaschaaf: what are you trying to do? Oct 18 17:38:28 AnOutsider: try pressing the options Oct 18 17:38:44 I did and got stuck so I had to choose something Oct 18 17:38:51 unless a backswipe would remove the menu Oct 18 17:38:57 oh blast. Oct 18 17:39:00 didn't think of that. Oct 18 17:39:03 Some user wanted to have the bookmarks on the startpage be a list Oct 18 17:39:04 ;) Oct 18 17:39:05 :-( Oct 18 17:39:06 Rick_, we are trying to turn the start page of the Browser app to display the bookmarks as a list Oct 18 17:39:15 ahhhh Oct 18 17:39:22 going to stay the hell OUT of that discussion. Oct 18 17:39:30 Kind've like if you used the menu bookmark list Oct 18 17:39:54 one more thing, when I'm out of moves or after having it solve for me, perhaps provide a non-invasive dialog to present options? I kinda feel like I'm getting hustled out of the store haha Oct 18 17:40:00 like "ok, you're done here, move along pal" Oct 18 17:40:26 I like the solve it feature though Oct 18 17:41:09 the options thing can probably easily be solved by having the menu disappear on another tap of options or allowing for a backswipe gesture Oct 18 17:41:25 Abyssul it seems like a crazy heck of work to just to get that feature integrated :( Oct 18 17:41:28 though, when it's named options, I think of a menu opening up allowing me to change marble colors, and tap settings. So perhaps "Layout" Oct 18 17:42:18 I was just wondering Thomaschaaf. If its hard then ignore it Oct 18 17:43:58 Abyssul I just don't think it's worth it Oct 18 17:44:06 Thats ok. :) Worth a shot Oct 18 17:44:19 In my spare time I just try to develop simple patchs for people. :) Oct 18 17:44:45 Thomaschaaf: instead of modifying the startpage, it would be simpler to launch the bookmark page that already exists Oct 18 17:57:31 where can I get the video hack for the pre? Oct 18 18:01:19 every one gone? Oct 18 18:01:35 Thomaschaaf: search precentral Oct 18 18:01:38 or search the wiki Oct 18 18:07:06 Rick_: can't find any app Oct 18 18:07:19 its in the Oct 18 18:07:37 "video no gui" thread somewhere the app is on the canuck site someplace Oct 18 18:08:09 ah ok Oct 18 18:09:40 and it's pre-pre-pre alpha Oct 18 18:10:16 AnOutsider: we're thinking themes eventually. but we have to get it WORKING first. Oct 18 18:10:45 AnOutsider: change options to "layouts" and would a "tap outside the menu" be good enough isntead of catching backswipe or do I need to catch backswipe too? Oct 18 18:14:09 tap outside the menu would be good, it's intuitive Oct 18 18:14:57 palm-log is a life-saver :) Oct 18 18:36:27 can i get dash to stop trying to parse my ('s and )'s in other utility's inputs? Oct 18 18:50:52 wsup Oct 18 18:53:04 clouds Oct 18 18:53:05 stars Oct 18 18:53:09 the Burj Dubai Oct 18 18:55:22 lol Oct 18 18:56:33 Rick_: http://omploader.org/vMmtqbA Oct 18 18:56:35 it works Oct 18 18:56:41 hello all Oct 18 18:56:43 yet terrible photo shitty lighting here Oct 18 18:56:47 i can a new one later Oct 18 18:56:54 i come to you with a particular problem with my palm pre that i have flashed to cricKet Oct 18 18:57:10 Rick_: just need to drop in hot glue where the cable enters the case so it dont get pulled out Oct 18 18:57:13 now that i know it works Oct 18 18:57:35 when i try and write the nai and what not through TilIpcTest nothing holds and i can't get data or mms working Oct 18 18:57:38 can anyone help Oct 18 18:58:13 PuffTheMagic_: congrats Oct 18 18:58:58 prelogix: i dont believe it will work the way the phone is provisioned Oct 18 18:58:59 is there a regulator in there, or just 4 batteries? Oct 18 18:59:52 PuffTheMagic_: Oct 18 19:00:11 atlanta i've been searching 3 forums 2 nights straight its frustrating lol, there are tons that say it works and have gotten it working but you know the attitudes on hofo aren't so great and mobilefiles and pre forums all link to dead file downloads for qinrays 1.0.3 Oct 18 19:00:34 it seems my only problem is that i can't get the settings to hold Oct 18 19:04:13 PuffTheMagic_, what is that for exactly? Oct 18 19:05:03 PuffTheMagic_, if that's for your phone, you will want to consider a 7805 regulator Oct 18 19:05:35 does anyone know where i can get qinrays 1.0.3 webos? every single link i find is dead Oct 18 19:06:34 or is that something i can't ask for here Oct 18 19:08:09 prelogix: have u looked here Oct 18 19:08:10 http://discussion.treocentral.com/cdma-north-america/198637-palm-pre-network-switch-guide.html Oct 18 19:08:16 zsoc: i dont need a 7805,, id ont even have 5v with 4 1.2v batteries Oct 18 19:08:34 PuffTheMagic_, oh those are rechargeable... n/m then :) Oct 18 19:11:49 PuffTheMagic_: and 4.2 seems to work fine. which makes sense since the internal batt is 3.7 Oct 18 19:11:59 4.8 Oct 18 19:12:17 atlanta: yes i have, i've been following those instructions from the start, i haven't been able to get the settings to work, the furthest i got was the phone giving me a message about not being able to make the data connection Oct 18 19:12:50 gotcha Oct 18 19:12:59 well thats probably just about the most i can help Oct 18 19:13:00 sorry Oct 18 19:16:13 thank you, i'll restart from the start and try it again, maybe it will work Oct 18 19:21:22 Rick_: yeah its definately enough (since its working ;) ) Oct 18 19:22:02 PuffTheMagic_: is it actually charging the battery tho? Oct 18 19:22:09 is your % going up? Oct 18 19:22:17 umm let me see Oct 18 19:23:45 Rick_: the rawcoulombs is going up Oct 18 19:23:52 COOL Oct 18 19:24:16 yeah and percent Oct 18 19:25:19 Rick_: the enclose battery case w/ built in switch really made this very stream lined and clean looking Oct 18 19:25:20 PuffTheMagic_, 2Ah batteries? Oct 18 19:25:51 4x 2000mAh 1.2v batteries Oct 18 19:25:54 and 2 Ah batterys Oct 18 19:26:08 Well it'll get you a full charge :) Oct 18 19:26:28 so 2000 * 1.2 is 4.8 watt-hours Oct 18 19:27:20 where the built in pre-batter is 1100 maH at 3.7 -- 4.07 watt-hours Oct 18 19:27:26 so, you'll double your battery life. Oct 18 19:27:38 and if you take a second set of rechargables..... Oct 18 19:37:32 i doubt i will ne 8 watt-hours of use in 1 day Oct 18 19:37:36 ;) Oct 18 19:41:01 ip forwarding :> Oct 18 19:55:34 do you have sometimes issue with ur pre and screen? sometimes the screen wont turn on Oct 18 19:55:43 the pre is working and all but screen is black Oct 18 19:56:42 en0x: so u still have the origional screen protector on it? Oct 18 19:56:44 yeah ahd that this morning when trying to install an app fromt he catalog Oct 18 19:56:49 my mom ad an issue like that Oct 18 19:56:57 the top part of the screen protector was curling up Oct 18 19:57:02 no i dont Oct 18 19:57:04 and intefering with the proximity sensor Oct 18 20:00:19 hi everyone Oct 18 20:02:00 I was doing beta testing NDA's with someone in here... who was it? Oct 18 20:02:19 How do I update a file in git? Oct 18 20:03:10 I replaced a file, then commit, then push, but it says everything is up-to-date without changing anything Oct 18 20:10:50 nothin atlanta, just tryin to make some money :P Oct 18 20:34:28 ok, that game is now feature complete - graphics still need work, but game is complete Oct 18 20:34:36 Who wants to try a quick test ????/ Oct 18 20:36:12 you can reshoot it to me, emu still open Oct 18 20:37:03 coming Oct 18 20:37:52 AnOutsider: it's feature complete, needs help menu and fishinshed graphics and it's done Oct 18 20:37:56 custom layouts now works Oct 18 20:38:05 dismiss picklist by clicking outside of it Oct 18 20:38:29 when you do a custom layout you get a "start" button in the lower right corner (graphics suck on that, it will be fixed.) Oct 18 20:38:51 I wish the dialogs were more in keeping with the theme, but there you go I am _not_ doing custom dialogs. Oct 18 20:39:12 heh Oct 18 20:43:27 heh I like it Oct 18 20:43:35 "Sorry, I just can't solve custom layouts" Oct 18 20:44:02 thanks Oct 18 20:45:51 you like that I did away with automove? Oct 18 20:48:09 immensely Oct 18 20:48:17 it's less... jarring I guess Oct 18 20:48:41 kk Oct 18 20:49:03 if I had another day, I would make a db to store custom layouts in and you could name them and save them. Oct 18 20:49:07 but screw that. Oct 18 20:51:29 has anyone here done research into the feasibility of: updating the version of V8 the Pre uses, updating the version of webkit, or updating Apache Harmony? Oct 18 20:57:01 enormous: cant do it Oct 18 20:57:13 webcore is missing lots of headers Oct 18 20:59:17 dang. bust my bubble just like that will ya! Oct 18 21:01:51 enormous: but based on the fact that palm chose to use v8 (either cause its so bad ass or cause its the only thing that works properly) then I would assume those teams in palm respobsivle for webcore will update it when it provides some sort of significant improvement Oct 18 21:06:09 PuffTheMagic_: thanks for the response. I was reading a thread the other day which piqued my curiosity, so I figured someone here had surely looked into it. Oct 18 21:09:19 well i tried building webcore the first day i had my pre Oct 18 21:09:22 and i coudlnt do it Oct 18 21:09:32 they didnt give us the headers to all the native graphics libs Oct 18 21:09:53 which could enable us to make really nice 2d apps Oct 18 21:13:04 are there other devices that use the OMAP3430 that we could "borrow" from? Oct 18 21:14:12 what would we "borrow" Oct 18 21:15:10 if they happen to ship with updated libraries? Oct 18 21:15:31 there are no other "devices" with webos Oct 18 21:15:46 lol Oct 18 21:16:00 enormous: and the headers we are missing are from custom palm libs Oct 18 21:16:11 which are heavily based on gpl'd stuff Oct 18 21:16:17 so we might have a case to argue Oct 18 21:16:24 but its like their bread and butter Oct 18 21:16:27 and they are resisting Oct 18 21:16:53 I know nothing else ships with webos, but webos is running atop linux, so there's got to be some similarities (if they're also running linux underneath) Oct 18 21:17:15 i thought resistance was futile Oct 18 21:18:01 enormous: you are missing the point, webcore... the heart of the luna/webos env that runs on the pre... the code that v8 is built into requires headers from palm for custom palm libraries Oct 18 21:18:13 nothing else on earth can help us with that Oct 18 21:18:28 besides hard core reverse engineering Oct 18 21:18:30 shouldn't those headers technically be available under the LGPL? Oct 18 21:18:34 or palm gpl'ing the headers Oct 18 21:18:45 freakout: p\robably, but they dont want to give them up Oct 18 21:18:57 heh. i know. where's destinal anyway? Oct 18 21:19:17 i've been meaning to talk to him about it for ages. But keep missing him. i think he might be afraid of me Oct 18 21:19:24 been meaning to write a post about it for ages Oct 18 21:20:19 oil: resistance if futile only if you have the Borg onside Oct 18 21:20:30 oil: and I doubt you want MS to take over webos-internals :p Oct 18 21:20:59 * freakout is off to work. (shudder) Oct 18 21:21:05 lol Oct 18 22:44:24 Rick_: i just realized I didnt look to see what the charging "rate" was using my battery back.... Oct 18 22:51:00 100,500,700,1000? Oct 18 22:51:04 i should check it out Oct 18 23:26:04 Well arn't we full of discussion today :) Oct 18 23:29:57 Abyssul: sssh, they're sleeping I think ;) Oct 18 23:30:10 WHAT?! Oct 18 23:30:32 * oil has been awake for like 2 and a half hours Oct 18 23:32:20 Nonsense Oct 18 23:35:20 we've been chatting for the better part f 12 hours today. one gets tire Oct 18 23:35:44 heh Oct 18 23:35:55 Abyssul: don't ask me, I only got my pre yesterday Oct 18 23:36:09 Abyssul: and never joined this room before an hour ago :p Oct 18 23:37:35 Welcome Marajin :) Have any linux, java, html experience? Oct 18 23:37:50 well yes, but I also have a 16 hour a day job :p Oct 18 23:38:05 and I have a UK pre, so I'm stuck with 1.1.3 for now :( Oct 18 23:38:10 Ya, I saw you guys rambling about a DIY portable charger earlier Oct 18 23:38:28 * Marajin ponders. Oct 18 23:39:51 Abyssul: besides, Java makes me twitch and I have to go have a smoke and a large scotch afterwards :p Oct 18 23:40:03 Rofl Oct 18 23:40:24 you may laugh, but it's true! :p Oct 18 23:42:02 I know little code so it's outta my league :) Oct 18 23:42:13 * Marajin used to be a pro software dev. Oct 18 23:42:25 and then I ended up running a school Oct 18 23:42:27 I just take care of all the newbies. Oct 18 23:42:30 don't ask me how, I don't know yet Oct 18 23:42:35 Lol Oct 18 23:43:31 better you than me :p taking care of teenagers for a day job tends to disenchant you with taking care of newbies after hours ;) Oct 18 23:44:24 understandable :p Oct 18 23:44:54 heh :) Oct 18 23:45:27 I hope they hurry up with 1.2 for EU models... the battery life is shocking right now :P Oct 18 23:46:41 i thought eu was skipping 1.2 Oct 18 23:46:46 and going to 1.3 with te us Oct 18 23:46:48 the us* Oct 18 23:47:00 oil: Could be, don't really care if they do or don't, but 1.1 clearly has a coupla issues Oct 18 23:47:49 I was pretty amused that it shipped with 1.1.2 and updated itself to 1.1.3 within an hour of me unboxing it.. given that UK release was friday and I unboxed it at like 10am on saturday Oct 18 23:48:35 well, my pre came with 1.0.2 on it, and as soon as it had a connection it went to 1.0.3 Oct 18 23:48:48 figures Oct 18 23:48:50 there is quite a time difference between what they send to be put on stock units, and when it actually launches Oct 18 23:48:54 its not surprising Oct 18 23:49:38 time better spent working on 1.2 I say! :P Oct 18 23:49:50 Abyssul: do anything else besides comforting newbies? Oct 18 23:50:24 lol Oct 18 23:51:00 Marajin: you can flash the UK Pre with 1.2 y'know ;) Oct 18 23:51:13 freakout: a who what now? Oct 18 23:52:01 freakout: without it going horribly wrong? ;) Oct 18 23:52:15 lol, yep Oct 18 23:52:27 rwhitby tested with his CDMA Pre by flashing it with the German Doctor Oct 18 23:52:52 it will detect the correct modem Oct 18 23:52:56 sounds like askin for trouble Oct 18 23:52:59 freakout: wouldn't that be flashing a US pre with a EU firmware? Oct 18 23:53:00 lol Oct 18 23:53:08 i.e. kinda the opposite of what I want? Oct 18 23:53:14 Yep, but no reason the reverse shouldn't work. You can be our guinea pig :p Oct 18 23:53:23 lol Oct 18 23:53:25 If everything goes wrong you can just re-doctor back to 1.1.3 Oct 18 23:53:34 I'm going to do it myself when i get mine Oct 18 23:53:38 I'm not really inclined to try flashing the wrong firmware onto a device that I only got yesterday Oct 18 23:53:44 lol Oct 18 23:53:47 Fair enough Marajin Oct 18 23:54:00 I mean sure, in theory I can flash back again but.. Oct 18 23:54:07 there's always that chance that it'll go boom Oct 18 23:54:12 and as far as battery life Oct 18 23:54:28 once you're used to the phone and aren't opening it to play with it every 20 mins Oct 18 23:54:34 you'll find your battery lasts much longer Oct 18 23:54:43 lol Oct 18 23:55:13 oil: if it can go from 35% to stone dead while I'm /asleep/ it has issues Oct 18 23:55:26 * freakout wonders if he is crazy to be thinking about it when he's been waiting so long for a Pre Oct 18 23:55:30 you don't charge it while you're asleep? Oct 18 23:55:36 oil: I forgot to plug it in Oct 18 23:55:37 i always just stick mine on the touchstone when i hit the sak Oct 18 23:55:41 wake up to full battery Oct 18 23:55:44 they didn't ship my touchstone yet :( Oct 18 23:55:48 :/ Oct 18 23:56:09 they said it'd come same day as the phone but it never did Oct 18 23:56:24 which could get interesting as I'm obviously at work on monday Oct 18 23:56:41 my touchstone will probably arrive before my Pre Marajin ;) Oct 18 23:56:48 freakout: how'd you manage that? :p Oct 18 23:56:59 Marajin: found a great deal on ebay Oct 18 23:57:00 hes importing the pre Oct 18 23:57:10 anyone notice the touchstone is cheaper in the UK than the US btw? :p Oct 18 23:57:15 it's like 15 dollars cheaper Oct 18 23:57:29 * oil stopped paying attention to the price after he got one Oct 18 23:57:44 Marajin: Touchstone is coming from hong kong for $50USD including shipping, not bad at all. Pre is coming from Germany for 481 EUR. still waiting for the frakking PayPal bank transfer to clear :( Oct 18 23:58:04 freakout: more money than sense some people ;) Oct 18 23:58:14 * Marajin just shouted at o2 till he got a free pre and touchstone. Oct 18 23:59:02 * Marajin is probably not a nice man at 8am while suffering lack of caffeine and nicotine and being made late for work by bumbling sales reps. Oct 19 00:00:29 Marajin: I can't help it, I'm a Palm addict. they're bastards. should stop making such cool devices Oct 19 00:00:52 I also ended up with like.. 1200 minutes/1000 sms/unlimited data/unlimited wifi hotspots/75% discount on international calls Oct 19 00:01:42 freakout: Palm just got pathetic around about the Lifedrive.. I bought one, played with it for a while and went 'wtf, my T3 was faster and had more usable ram..' and gave it to a friend Oct 19 00:01:47 but the pre won me back Oct 19 00:02:14 in the meantime I've had 3 HTC devices and a HP RX3715 Oct 19 00:03:01 the LD could have been so cool :( but with a stoneage OS and pitiful "dynamic heap memory"... Oct 19 00:04:09 from memory it had 6.5MB versus my T3s.. 12?14? Oct 19 00:04:35 but large storage, wifi and bluetooth inbuilt.. it could have been awesomeness Oct 19 00:06:01 see that's what always worried me slightly about palm at the time.. they were technically making awesome hardware and then hobbling it with PalmOS versions that hadn't significantly improved in years Oct 19 00:06:18 but then WebOS arrived and all is forgiven :P Oct 19 00:07:14 Marajin: lol Oct 19 00:07:17 Abyssul: I killed the conversation :( Oct 19 00:07:23 Marajin: another LifeDrive Victim, I see Oct 19 00:07:32 freakout: common is it? :p Oct 19 00:07:50 Marajin: yep. I'm a blogger @ palminfocenter. The hatred I see for the LD there is stunning sometimes Oct 19 00:08:04 freakout: see technically I loved the LD but the OS I hated Oct 19 00:08:14 Marajin: It's died down in recent years as the memory fades, but it's still not a popular device Oct 19 00:08:22 Marajin: yeah, that was the complaint Oct 19 00:08:46 freakout: say.. did they ever /actually/ release a single OS6 device? :p Oct 19 00:08:59 Marajin: lol. nope Oct 19 00:09:03 OS5.5 and 6 were simultaenous release but I have never ever seen an OS6 device Oct 19 00:09:12 Marajin: the closest you could ever get was downloading the Cobalt simulator Oct 19 00:09:18 heh :p Oct 19 00:09:19 (which I have) Oct 19 00:09:32 mind you, it was a MILDLY facelifted garnet Oct 19 00:09:35 so what was the point? Oct 19 00:09:46 Marajin: under-the-hood it had some great improvements Oct 19 00:09:53 sure but no practical benefits Oct 19 00:09:58 Marajin: but the BeOS people that PalmSource had working on it screwed up on a lot Oct 19 00:10:11 But BeOS was awesome Oct 19 00:10:16 Marajin: no crashing? Proper multithreading? better multimedia? Better BT? UMTS? Oct 19 00:10:20 is_computer_on_fire() ? c'mon! c'mon! Oct 19 00:11:26 BeOS was poop Oct 19 00:11:43 PuffTheMagic_: your sense of humour app crashed :( Oct 19 00:12:19 i just came back from the store and saw BeOS and awesome in the same sentense Oct 19 00:12:28 that bypassed all humor or sarcasm modules Oct 19 00:12:41 clearly you have defective software, upgrade immediately Oct 19 00:14:41 freakout: anyway, yeah, I still have a soft spot for palm so as long as the pre doesn't suddenly do something drastic I'll cope :p Oct 19 00:15:29 besides, I got sick of my WM phone locking up :P Oct 19 00:17:38 see the fact that I don't like how it deals with SMSs and don't find some of the configuration settings logically placed or even existent at all.. hasn't really put me off :p Oct 19 00:17:46 * freakout really, really, really, really really really really hates his job Oct 19 00:17:57 freakout: ... dare I ask what your job is? Oct 19 00:18:18 the only reason he doesn't like it is they don't let him wear his shorts Oct 19 00:18:25 temp job right now. Call center. A career i will be exceedingly happy to leave behind for the Army in january :) Oct 19 00:18:40 lol Oct 19 00:18:49 freakout: You don't sound like the kinda guy I want to trust with a semi automatic rifle ;) Oct 19 00:19:00 oil: And I have to wear a tie too. Seriously. In a frakkin' call center? who gives a shit? Oct 19 00:19:04 Marajin: lol Oct 19 00:19:05 lol Oct 19 00:19:34 freakout: I run an independent school and I don't wear a tie so yeah a liiiittle extreme to require it in a call center :p Oct 19 00:19:52 Marajin: one of the questions they ask you in the interview is "Are you aware you may be ordered to take a human life?" Oct 19 00:20:19 freakout: I'd probably get refused since I'd reply '...no shit sherlock' Oct 19 00:20:20 Marajin: and I'm like "having worked in customer service for the last 5 years, I am more than ready. Give me a gun now please Oct 19 00:21:06 freakout: well I'm 260+ lbs, I don't need a gun ;) Oct 19 00:21:39 freakout just scares all the bad guys away by showing too much skin Oct 19 00:22:03 oil: I sense some tension between you two, have you thought about marriage councelling? ;) Oct 19 00:22:09 lol Oct 19 00:22:12 lo Oct 19 00:22:13 l Oct 19 00:22:23 the pics will make you go blind Oct 19 00:22:31 I'm already blind! Oct 19 00:22:50 * Marajin cleans his bottle-bottom glasses and peers myopically at the screen. Oct 19 00:23:47 freakout: what company do you call center for? I'll make a mental note never to phone 'em ;) Oct 19 00:25:24 omg Oct 19 00:25:30 i just found.... a floppy disk Oct 19 00:25:42 PuffTheMagic_: a floppy floppy disk? 5.25"? Oct 19 00:25:53 3.5" Oct 19 00:26:05 oil: the pics will only make you go blind if you whack off over them too much :p Oct 19 00:26:12 ohhh Oct 19 00:26:14 marajin: Star Track Express right now. Transport company Oct 19 00:26:22 hey, rwhitby is the one who said it made him go blind Oct 19 00:26:34 PuffTheMagic_: Bah! You modern people with the fancy new tech! Oct 19 00:26:45 * Marajin grew up on microdrive tapes! Oct 19 00:26:57 ah the heady days of the sinclair QL :p Oct 19 00:27:10 Marajin: my first computer was a Vic 20 w/ punch cards Oct 19 00:27:21 well it was my dads Oct 19 00:27:30 but that wsa the first one i used Oct 19 00:27:34 I donated my QLs to a computer museum! Oct 19 00:27:35 lol Oct 19 00:27:43 one of them was modded to buggery Oct 19 00:28:11 rehoused in a custom built case with dual microdrives and dual 3.5" floppy drives and a meg of RAM! Oct 19 00:28:14 and a new PSU Oct 19 00:28:36 * freakout 's first computer was a 286. He feels so young compared to you old fogies Oct 19 00:28:36 and a 3 stage modem! didn't even need an accoustic coupler! Oct 19 00:28:48 freakout: I'm 23 :p I just started /young/ Oct 19 00:30:49 an im 2 years older than Marajin Oct 19 00:30:54 marajin: crap, I'm 25. Didn't start till about 5 or 6 though Oct 19 00:30:56 lol Oct 19 00:31:04 25 must be the magic age. so is oil Oct 19 00:31:09 lol Oct 19 00:31:13 it is magical Oct 19 00:31:32 1984 was a good year for the world ;) Oct 19 00:31:42 You realise we're all going to be burnt out by the time we're 35 right? :p Oct 19 00:31:49 psh Oct 19 00:32:48 oil: 30 for you, I suspect ;) Oct 19 00:32:52 has palm mentioned if they ever plan to support audio in the SDK? Oct 19 00:33:12 it is Oct 19 00:33:15 just not very well Oct 19 00:33:15 AnOutsider: Audio is a capitalist luxury! Oct 19 00:33:17 oh Oct 19 00:33:19 you mean in the emu Oct 19 00:34:00 ya Oct 19 00:34:13 annoying having to run on the phone and debug Oct 19 00:34:26 can't seem tog et palm-log to work ont he device either so im stuck with outputting data into divs Oct 19 00:34:31 audio on the pre is crap though Oct 19 00:34:32 its too slow Oct 19 00:34:57 mayhap, doesn't change that having it in the emu would make building this app easier tho ;) Oct 19 00:35:45 what app? Oct 19 00:35:49 don't you dare say fart app Oct 19 00:36:09 oil: you mean we don't want to be like iPhone users? :( Oct 19 00:36:48 oil: the fart app it total awesome Oct 19 00:36:53 my brother used it at his work Oct 19 00:37:04 put it my one of his co workers Oct 19 00:37:07 PuffTheMagic_: *which* fart app? there's like 3475897348945237942893 of them Oct 19 00:37:14 the first one Oct 19 00:37:16 lol Oct 19 00:37:23 haha Oct 19 00:37:35 he put it on timer Oct 19 00:37:42 nah, figured I'd finish up this datpiff app since apple is taking forever with the iphone version and palm is actually allowing submissins Oct 19 00:37:45 just as he was walking back to his desk witha group of people it went off Oct 19 00:37:52 s/submissins/submissions/ Oct 19 00:37:53 AnOutsider meant: nah, figured I'd finish up this datpiff app since apple is taking forever with the iphone version and palm is actually allowing submissions Oct 19 00:40:07 * Marajin ponders the 1.2 changelog and wonders what a hetrogenous exchange account is Oct 19 00:40:46 You ponder too much Oct 19 00:41:04 Abyssul: I know :( I blame palm, they've made me ponderous Oct 19 00:42:33 Is that a word? lol Oct 19 00:42:40 Googling it now lol Oct 19 00:42:44 yes it is Oct 19 00:42:50 Im amazed o.O Oct 19 00:43:24 of course it generally means something that is large and slow moving Oct 19 00:43:55 But you dont always take things literally Oct 19 00:44:10 no that'd be sensible and thus I have no truck with it ;) Oct 19 00:46:26 well guys, I better get some sleep since I have to get up in 5 hours Oct 19 00:47:25 does the webos plugin for komodo disable logging for apps deployed to the device? Oct 19 00:49:14 catcha around Abyssul, oil, PuffTheMagic_, freakout, et al Oct 19 00:49:21 Peace Oct 19 00:49:35 Abyssul: peace? never ;) Oct 19 00:50:46 Marajin: later mate Oct 19 01:27:05 PuffTheMagic_: you still around? Oct 19 01:30:45 yeah Oct 19 01:33:55 The java question I wanted to ask is prolly stupid Oct 19 01:34:15 PuffTheMagic_: there's a .class file that seems to be in charge of loading up the carriernetworksettings Oct 19 01:35:04 ok....? Oct 19 01:37:04 PuffTheMagic_: wondered if there was any possibility of a homebrew solution to the SIM card bug that international users have been having Oct 19 01:37:19 where webOS doesn't seem to load the correct carrier settings from the database Oct 19 01:40:44 morning Oct 19 01:42:04 freakout: lol... so you are saying that out of the box gsm phones dont even work on the O2 network they shipped on? Oct 19 01:45:35 PuffTheMagic_: lol Oct 19 01:45:41 freakout: or people using them off O2's network have issues? Oct 19 01:45:45 PuffTheMagic_: no, they work on O2 and most german providers Oct 19 01:45:53 PuffTheMagic_: yeah exactly. But only some people Oct 19 01:46:10 does the phone "work"? Oct 19 01:46:11 PuffTheMagic_: It's weird, 'cause the database contains 240 carriers, all with correct settings so far as can be told Oct 19 01:46:23 is it just the display of the carrier string that is not correct? Oct 19 01:46:29 like in the upper left corner? Oct 19 01:46:34 PuffTheMagic_: nope Oct 19 01:46:48 PuffTheMagic_: In some cases ppl can still make phone calls, sms etc but no network or MMS Oct 19 01:46:53 PuffTheMagic_: In others it doesn't work at all. Oct 19 01:47:18 PuffTheMagic_: But I have no idea if the problem is with that file or not Oct 19 01:47:23 well if its java it can be fixed easily Oct 19 01:47:24 * freakout waves to rwhitby, by the by Oct 19 01:48:08 * rwhitby waves back, with hands covering my eyes just in case ... Oct 19 01:48:09 supposedly palm or O2 are going to issue an update to fix it, but no one has any clue what timeframe. a homebrew fix would be sweet if its possible Oct 19 01:48:14 hang on, i'll find the file location Oct 19 01:50:43 there we go Oct 19 01:50:47 PuffTheMagic_: usr/lib/luna/java/CarrierNetworkSettings Oct 19 01:51:03 PuffTheMagic_: and then within that com/palm/data/carriernetworksettings Oct 19 01:51:07 freakout: i cant do that tonight Oct 19 01:51:13 possibly this week i could look at it Oct 19 01:51:18 but ineed to finnish packing Oct 19 01:51:39 PuffTheMagic_: No worries mate, my Pre won't be here till after that anyways ;) Oct 19 01:51:54 PuffTheMagic_: and hopefully it'll work straight away anyways Oct 19 01:53:01 PuffTheMagic_: what are you packing for? Oct 19 01:53:05 (back in 10) Oct 19 01:54:10 freakout: HFES conference Oct 19 01:54:25 sim card? Oct 19 01:54:34 how do you know it's that? Oct 19 01:57:10 freakout: I still haven't pulled the trigger on my GSM Pre purchase. Are you able to test yours with a Vodafone SIM? Oct 19 01:57:15 (when you get it) Oct 19 02:00:13 tmzt: read the mailing list Oct 19 02:00:22 i think somneone showed it reads from the sim card Oct 19 02:00:37 ok Oct 19 02:00:38 rwhitby: yep Oct 19 02:00:50 rwhitby: I'm gonna test all 4 - telstra, vodafone, optus, 3 Oct 19 02:01:15 rwhitby: fortunately my friends are on a diverse collection of networks :) Oct 19 02:01:40 freakout: nice Oct 19 02:02:19 I might try taking apart the CDMA Pre this weekend to work out how easy it will be to swap keyboards before I pull the trigger on the purchase. Oct 19 02:02:32 lol Oct 19 02:02:50 rwhitby: the keymap file seems to detect whether you have QWERTY or QWERTZ Oct 19 02:03:01 Have to remember to take home the guitar pick case opening tool ... Oct 19 02:03:06 freakout: which file? Oct 19 02:03:14 rwhitby: one sec Oct 19 02:04:03 http://buckycomputing.net/uploads/ladies-love-linux.jpg Oct 19 02:04:25 the key caps are that important to you? Oct 19 02:04:32 hidd does a lot of things Oct 19 02:06:36 rwhitby: /usr/lib/liblunakeymaps.so Oct 19 02:07:14 freakout: how did you determine it's operation? Oct 19 02:10:58 rwhitby: opened it in Notepad. heh. the detection is in plain-text Oct 19 02:11:11 rwhitby: I could be way off of course Oct 19 02:11:49 mojo provided gesture event, but the docs did not mention, heh Oct 19 02:12:43 detection? how? Oct 19 02:12:52 freakout: which version of webOS ? Oct 19 02:13:20 gesturestart , gesturechange and gestureend event Oct 19 02:13:41 rwhitby: from the 1.2 doctor i believe Oct 19 02:14:54 freakout: must be, no such file in 1.1.3 doctor Oct 19 02:16:04 rwhitby: heh. I'll email you a copy when i get home tonight Oct 19 02:16:48 freakout: I'm looking in the 1.2.1 doctor now. Don't ever email me copyright files, thanks. Oct 19 02:17:31 nope, not there either - are you sure of the filename? Oct 19 02:17:51 ah libLunaKeymaps.so Oct 19 02:18:23 KEYBOARD_TOKEN, KEYBOARD_AZERTY, KEYBOARD_QWERTZ, KEYBOARD_QWERTY Oct 19 02:18:34 rwhitby, that's it Oct 19 02:18:41 and sorry 'bout the email. I was just joking of course. Oct 19 02:18:44 webosGetDeviceKeymap Oct 19 02:18:48 * freakout looks guiltily at Palm lurkers :p Oct 19 02:19:10 and /dev/tokens/HWoRev Oct 19 02:19:28 oh Oct 19 02:19:34 very android like Oct 19 02:19:35 com.palm.properties.KEYoBRD Oct 19 02:20:13 and /dev/tokens/PN - 180-10644-0, 180-10642-0, 180-10724-0 Oct 19 02:20:17 and iphone like Oct 19 02:20:23 tmzt: tell me more ... Oct 19 02:21:35 freakout: I wonder if a one byte binary patch to this library will acheive the desired result. Oct 19 02:21:47 just s/QWERTZ/QWERTY/ in the file Oct 19 02:22:21 rwhitby: wouldn't that be convenient... Oct 19 02:22:31 * freakout could then just alter his kb with a tiny paintbrush ;) Oct 19 02:22:47 rwhitby: it's not positive Oct 19 02:22:59 freakout: I'm wondering if the keyboard itself can be taken apart, and the keycaps swapped. Oct 19 02:23:04 rwhitby: I mean using /dev in that way is very android like Oct 19 02:23:33 no clue how it's getting the keymap use for the hardware Oct 19 02:23:45 but I don't think replacing it will change anything but the keycaps Oct 19 02:23:47 rwhitby: you seen the Pre teardown guides? Oct 19 02:24:06 rwhitby: it's an evil-looking jigsaw, i wouldn't be confident in my own tearapart abilities Oct 19 02:24:36 ah, the capital leters are probably just defines in an enum Oct 19 02:25:19 anything in upstart events create /dev/tokens ? Oct 19 02:25:49 can someone with a Pre handy do "/sbin/tokens --list" and pastebin the output? Oct 19 02:27:17 freakout: I reckon a tool to rewrite the KEYoBRD token in flash should do the trick Oct 19 02:27:22 that would persist across doctoring too Oct 19 02:27:35 rwhitby: *most* excellent Oct 19 02:28:05 in partition 1? Oct 19 02:28:08 whoever is pastebining tokens, remove the DMSVR and DMCL tokens first, since they contain keys Oct 19 02:28:13 is the format known now? Oct 19 02:28:18 why would anyone want to destroy their beautiful pre. Oct 19 02:28:23 keys? Oct 19 02:28:56 what kind of keys? Oct 19 02:30:29 how do i get to development mode on a pre with a bad esn Oct 19 02:30:44 http://webos.pastebin.com/d3a428b0 Oct 19 02:31:28 Guest65712: try the webos-internals meta-doctor - there is a PreCentral thread on it in the WebOS Internals forum Oct 19 02:32:12 tmzt: we have a tool to list, and the raw contents of the partition, so the format is effectively known :-) Oct 19 02:32:53 thanks Oct 19 02:33:23 wow, I wonder what DM is then Oct 19 02:33:38 probably not qualcomm dm with that secure of a protocol Oct 19 02:33:54 could be device management, like provisisioning remote erase Oct 19 02:34:04 but why does that need carrier Oct 19 02:47:55 rwhitby: one more working international carrier for the list (etisalat) http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/209222-few-questions-about-german-palm-pre-2.html#post1984019 Oct 19 02:50:51 hey everyone :/ Oct 19 02:51:40 hi **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 19 02:59:59 2009