**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 19 02:59:59 2009 Oct 19 03:02:42 freakout: I've started mailing list and forum threads on the subject: http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals/browse_thread/thread/fed548ed40e1af37 Oct 19 03:04:17 whats really good on the pre today? Oct 19 03:05:15 * oil is so tired of that question Oct 19 03:06:47 entity-: tokens Oct 19 03:08:00 anyone with a German QWERTZ Pre here? Oct 19 03:10:11 dang I just have the dvork one. Oct 19 03:10:50 hmm Oct 19 03:11:00 anyone here have an insight on netbooks Oct 19 03:11:04 im thinking of buying one. Oct 19 03:11:16 https://twitter.com/webosinternals/status/4981983288 Oct 19 03:12:39 hmm, i guess no one does. Oct 19 03:12:47 Decimation: hmm... that's always a hard question since new ones keep coming out and they are all so weak it's hard to compare them. Oct 19 03:13:08 Personally I would go 100% for looks. Oct 19 03:13:20 Templarian: i have a zuneHD, and pre, and a beautiful desktop... i am just lookin for the full pc expierence on the go. Oct 19 03:13:29 IM jealous Oct 19 03:13:37 I want a zune HD lol Oct 19 03:13:49 :P they're nice. Oct 19 03:13:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClCL5VUzB0g Oct 19 03:13:52 If I didn't have my pre I would of got one day one. Oct 19 03:13:59 I have a zune 30gb first gen Oct 19 03:14:01 that specifically is what im looking at. Oct 19 03:14:06 THing is a brick Oct 19 03:15:35 i just dont have money for a laptop Oct 19 03:15:38 and a netbook seems nice. Oct 19 03:16:30 The eee's look pretty nice. Oct 19 03:16:45 am i the only one who didnt know you could drag a .patch file into webosquickinstall and have it apply it!?!?!? Oct 19 03:17:47 Decimation: if you get now they ship with 7 so that's nice. Oct 19 03:18:47 meh, i could always just install it if they dont ship with it. Oct 19 03:18:59 i have a few keys Oct 19 03:19:26 I have an aspireone Oct 19 03:19:47 I don't really like dell's designs on theirs... Oct 19 03:20:12 all the english classes in our school have dell netbooks for every student Templarian Oct 19 03:20:15 i dont like them either. Oct 19 03:20:25 Rich school :P Oct 19 03:20:33 Eguy: not really :P Oct 19 03:20:53 My schools never had notebooks for every student Oct 19 03:21:06 Eguy: isn't the aspire one kind of fat? Oct 19 03:21:06 netbooks* Oct 19 03:21:07 Granted there weren't Dell notebooks when I was in school :P Oct 19 03:21:23 and either did ours till this year :P Oct 19 03:21:47 Templarian: Nah it is very light Oct 19 03:21:52 I have the 10.1 model Oct 19 03:22:11 I thought that adamo was going to be a cheap netbook then they pulled the whole why don't we just premium gouge people. Oct 19 03:22:28 Eguy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EXOZvpfcI4 <- thats what im looking at Oct 19 03:22:30 I am pleased to report that Fair Dinkum has stopped working for me as of today Oct 19 03:22:48 Ah I have the AOD250 Oct 19 03:22:51 * rwhitby turns off IRC notifications during the afternoon off-topic discussion period ... Oct 19 03:23:15 ahem evening rwhitby. It is 8pm ;) Oct 19 03:23:23 (it's 11:22, far from afternnoon hehe). Oct 19 03:24:01 Score -2 for my Pre. Fair Dinkum and Preware don''t work. Yipee Oct 19 03:24:36 Eguy: yep, the code to test for your username was included in Fair Dinkum too ... Oct 19 03:24:39 rwhitby: sorry, i use this irc channel for my insight on tech-related things :D Oct 19 03:24:51 I knew it Rod! Oct 19 03:25:03 Eguy: throw it against the wall... it might work after Oct 19 03:25:04 Decimation: you realise there are tens of thousands of other channels on this IRC server, right? Oct 19 03:25:21 PuffTheMagic_: Worked in the past ;) Oct 19 03:25:21 well i dont know which to go to! Oct 19 03:25:31 #webos-watercooler Oct 19 03:25:31 rwhitby: point me in the right direction! Oct 19 03:25:52 * Eguy thinks I should of named it #webos-internals-offtopic Oct 19 03:26:32 Eguy: it's shared so watercooler works. Oct 19 03:34:57 alphaone: can you "cat /dev/tokens/KEYoBRD" please? Oct 19 03:35:20 (or anyone else with a German qwertz Pre ...) Oct 19 03:35:25 http://i37.tinypic.com/10pu3jc.png :) Oct 19 03:39:53 oil do you have that lovely artwork of PuffTheMagic_'s? Oct 19 03:47:37 oil: ping Oct 19 03:48:19 oil: we need an app which shows all the palm://com.palm.preferences/systemProperties/Get key:string values Oct 19 03:49:41 * freakout curses people who still use imperial measurments in 2009 Oct 19 03:51:31 why so serious Oct 19 03:51:43 boooo. Oct 19 03:54:01 I'd like to submit a new patch... I have it in my repo at gitorious. I guess I'm supposed to do a merge request? When I try to select a range of commits, it warns me that I've selected a large range. Just checking that I'm doing this right... Oct 19 03:55:53 samk1: just point dBsooner to the file Oct 19 03:56:09 Eguy: http://omploader.org/vMms1OA Oct 19 03:56:14 samk1: or create a new thread in WebOS Patches in PreCentral and he should see it there. Oct 19 03:56:15 rwhitby: shows what? Oct 19 03:56:26 oil: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1550 Oct 19 03:56:40 there's *lots* more than just nduid Oct 19 03:56:40 rwhitby: ok thanks. Oct 19 03:56:50 i could whip one up Oct 19 03:56:59 what are all the keys? Oct 19 03:57:14 oil: try the values from ls /dev/tokens for a start .. Oct 19 03:57:20 I haven't found a definitive list yet Oct 19 03:57:45 not in the emulator, obv Oct 19 03:57:55 org.webosinternals.showprops? Oct 19 03:58:16 a two year old girl figured out how to flip through photos on my Palm Pre using a gesture. That is intuitive done correctly. Oct 19 03:58:50 tlp: she probably used an iphone before Oct 19 03:58:54 my two year old has no problems with the ipod touch I have either Oct 19 03:58:59 xD Oct 19 03:59:25 infact it is actually disappointing my ipod touch is a first gen with no external speaker, I want him to play some of the games on it that are written for toddlers :( Oct 19 04:00:51 LOL thanks oil Oct 19 04:01:49 freakout: I think meta-doctor might be able to change the keyboard Oct 19 04:02:08
Oct 19 04:02:36 rwhitby: nice! Oct 19 04:02:48 So I put a bodyguardz on my Pre, I am amazed as how well it deflects most dirt/fingerprint/smudging and it seems to have in my opinion made the touch better (can't explain how?) Oct 19 04:03:03 rwhitby: I'm going to have to use the MD anyways if it turns out I can't activate via Optus Oct 19 04:13:46 rwhitby: can you pastebin me a list of keys? Oct 19 04:14:57 oil: http://webos.pastebin.com/d20617e2b Oct 19 04:15:21 prepend com.palm.properties. to each of those should work Oct 19 04:15:42 and we'll want to have descriptive names in a table too, as we work out what each one is Oct 19 04:16:16 oil: http://webos.pastebin.com/d3a428b0 gives an idea of contents Oct 19 04:21:32 has anyone here applied the steps listed here to get around the app install issue.....webosDr - setting partition file sizes to get around memory limitation, I have a few questions regarding this, will this 100% solve out of disk issues, and when a new WeboS is released, will this need to be reverted in order to upgrade? Oct 19 04:22:13 mikepre: are you referring to the meta-doctor ? Oct 19 04:24:34 mikepre: even if you resize the partitions, you still need fair dinkum to get around the 64MiB limit Oct 19 04:25:19 mikepre: and an OTA upgrade should not be affected by different partition sizes, *unless* it's an OTA update which resizes partitions (which we have not seen yet, but it is technically possible for Palm to do) Oct 19 04:26:25 freakout: I reckon I need to work out how to trenchcoat from the command line, instead of as part of the doctor Oct 19 04:27:51 going to need to decompose the ramdisk that the doctor uses, and trace what it does Oct 19 04:33:15 rwhitby: im not sure how you expect me to get the data from there Oct 19 04:33:36 calling systemProperties with com.palm.properties.ProdSN or com.palm.properties.installer Oct 19 04:33:39 doesn't return anything Oct 19 04:34:56 rwhitby, I was referring to the steps listed here, http://bit.ly/kfmDb , it looks like this is differnt than the meta-doctor, I was trying to do it w/o having to doctor my pre and then re-apply all settings, logins for all my apps, and all the other settings that are not backed up in the profile Oct 19 04:44:47 oil: hmm - luna-send worked for PN and KEYoBRD at least ... Oct 19 04:45:49 rwhitby: RE trenchcoating - that would be more elegant Oct 19 04:48:00 rwhitby: not to mention faster Oct 19 04:52:01 rwhitby: private bus Oct 19 04:52:16 com.palm.org.webosinternals.shorprops Oct 19 04:52:17 xD Oct 19 04:53:08 show* Oct 19 04:54:25 oil: makes sense Oct 19 04:54:43 oil: want a repo for it? Oct 19 04:54:47 sure Oct 19 04:58:03 oil: done: git@git.webos-internals.org:applications/showprops.git Oct 19 05:07:34 i hate packing for trips Oct 19 05:07:40 always think im forgetting shit Oct 19 05:07:49 esp these little "business" like trips Oct 19 05:07:58 trying to get all my shit on 1 carry on Oct 19 05:08:12 lol Oct 19 05:09:09 real men just buy everything they need when they arrive Oct 19 05:09:15 and throw it away/expense report it when they're done Oct 19 05:09:19 you're clearly doing this wrong Oct 19 05:09:29 PuffTheMagic_: all you need is spare undies and a six-pack Oct 19 05:09:39 and you can skip the undies in a pinch Oct 19 05:10:01 yeah but this is not a business trip Oct 19 05:10:14 expense report goes back to me ;) Oct 19 05:10:53 thing is... im all used to shitty cold weather in buffalo and now i am going to texas for a week Oct 19 05:11:13 so not only will i need dress clothes for while at the conference but i need shit for after Oct 19 05:11:13 What part of Texas? Oct 19 05:11:16 its gonna be like 80 Oct 19 05:11:19 san antonio Oct 19 05:11:49 this week? if so it'll be more like 70's/50's and raining quite a bit which makes it nicer Oct 19 05:12:11 mon/tues should be 80's wed-fri 70s and some rain Oct 19 05:12:30 i hate doing 1 carry on Oct 19 05:12:34 80 there won't feel so bad since it's dry Oct 19 05:12:38 im like a girl Oct 19 05:12:44 i want to bring too much Oct 19 05:12:53 PuffTheMagic_: I thought you were a girl xD Oct 19 05:13:02 freakout, he has both parts Oct 19 05:13:07 * freakout now has to put his fantasies away :( Oct 19 05:13:15 * freakout now has brand new ones thanks to psykoz Oct 19 05:13:22 well done ;) Oct 19 05:13:37 Anyone know of a good utility for unpacking uImage files into their constituent parts? Oct 19 05:13:52 ummmm.... Oct 19 05:14:03 rwhitby: why would you need to? Oct 19 05:14:12 7zip? Oct 19 05:14:14 PuffTheMagic_: to get the rootfs out of it Oct 19 05:14:24 a uImage? Oct 19 05:14:28 arent those kernels? Oct 19 05:14:36 they are multi-part files Oct 19 05:15:05 this one in particular contains a kernel and a ramdisk Oct 19 05:15:15 hmm Oct 19 05:15:31 rwhitby: have you taken a look at the src for the tool that makes uImage Oct 19 05:15:58 rwhitby: to asnwer your question specifically, no i have no idea how to uncompress them Oct 19 05:16:00 PuffTheMagic_: I can do it manually, or write a script, but I'm lazy and am hoping that a tool already exists. Oct 19 05:16:44 rwhitby: i cant really imagine what would be in this ramdisk Oct 19 05:17:01 its not like its a distro kernel with 10000 modules Oct 19 05:17:34 PuffTheMagic_: huh? do you know what uImage file I'm talking about? Oct 19 05:18:20 not specifically ;) i've only heard of uImage's in the context of whats used on the Pre Oct 19 05:18:25 and other arm/uboot devices Oct 19 05:19:28 you can boot Gentoo from a single uImage if you wanted to. Oct 19 05:19:34 no other files required. Oct 19 05:20:33 ok.... but what specific uImage are you working with? Oct 19 05:21:43 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/showprops.git;a=summary Oct 19 05:21:57 PuffTheMagic_: nova-installer-image-castle.uImage, 12MB size Oct 19 05:22:17 ahhh Oct 19 05:22:37 oil: can you tag that as 0.1.0 please? Oct 19 05:24:26 v0.1.0 Oct 19 05:24:40 done Oct 19 05:27:06 oil: it's in the testing feed now Oct 19 05:27:37 i tested it on my pre Oct 19 05:27:39 i know it works Oct 19 05:27:45 well, except for that one that is just an object Oct 19 05:27:50 lol Oct 19 05:29:20 you see that preferences screenshot puff? Oct 19 05:30:48 oil: perfect, thanks for showprops Oct 19 05:31:53 oil: what I miss? :D preferences? Oct 19 05:32:14 http://i37.tinypic.com/10pu3jc.png Oct 19 05:32:16 * dBsooner has been taking care of his daughter who has H1N1 and himself which has it too (I think.) Oct 19 05:32:39 i had 3 employees catch it Oct 19 05:33:07 I spent most the night at the hospital with her. Oct 19 05:33:20 I cured my swine flu with bacon Oct 19 05:33:24 lol Oct 19 05:33:26 * psykoz ducks Oct 19 05:33:29 sorry man :( i know thats unnerving Oct 19 05:33:40 bad pun in there, cured... bacon ;) Oct 19 05:33:43 It was bad there.. tons of people Oct 19 05:34:04 i sent my employees home, cause they started developing flu like coughs and fevers Oct 19 05:34:08 And there is a rule at our hospitals, you have to put on a surgical mask to enter. Oct 19 05:34:20 wtf, where is ur hospital lol Oct 19 05:34:35 oil: that is awesome! I can't wait till it gets operational. :D Oct 19 05:35:02 its almost as far as i can go without one Oct 19 05:35:33 WHo has been working on the service? Oct 19 05:36:16 nobody Oct 19 05:36:39 That sucks. Oct 19 05:37:15 PuffTheMagic_ plans to start on it here eventually xD Oct 19 05:37:38 More likely he'll start on puff puff pass first ;) Oct 19 05:38:40 dBsooner, hope your daughter gets well Oct 19 05:39:19 psykoz: thanks.. She has been sick since Wed morning. Bad sick since thurs night. Oct 19 05:39:43 +100-102 fever since then. Oct 19 05:39:46 I have a son and know what it's like to deal with highly sick child ;( Oct 19 05:40:02 I have spent a lot of time sleeping on the couch with her. Oct 19 05:40:45 rwhitby: I see you renamed me from dBsooner to my real name in git.webos. xD Oct 19 05:41:08 dBsooner: it shows whatever you commited with Oct 19 05:41:16 you control it, not me. Oct 19 05:41:57 rwhitby: oh wait.. I am on linux now. nm Oct 19 05:42:03 dBsooner, I just learned that the KeyToss Search patch is now broken... Oct 19 05:42:14 rwhitby: i set my git differently in linux. Oct 19 05:42:20 samk1: eh? Oct 19 05:42:46 It's missing the image files and the postinst_extra and prerm_extra files Oct 19 05:43:53 samk1: interesting Oct 19 05:44:02 Can you help? Oct 19 05:44:21 Someone at PreCentral just posted a thread complaining about it. Oct 19 05:44:25 lol Oct 19 05:44:32 Give me a few mins Oct 19 05:44:36 thx Oct 19 05:44:56 My daughter just ran to the bathroom.. I think she's sittin there having another moment. Oct 19 05:45:01 brb Oct 19 05:45:13 poor little 5 yr old. Oct 19 05:45:14 dBsooner: go be with your family. Oct 19 05:45:22 rwhitby: nah.. I'm good. Oct 19 05:45:29 ok, sorry, i know you've got stuff going on Oct 19 05:46:19 nah, she's good.. told me to go away. :D Oct 19 05:46:26 :) Oct 19 05:46:33 link to thread? Oct 19 05:46:48 http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/210247-key-toss-not-working-properly.html Oct 19 05:47:34 I compared the ipk in the current feed to the original, and I see that several files are missing... Oct 19 05:49:37 im looking at it now Oct 19 05:50:11 the files are there in the build repo.. It might be the build script not packaging them up Oct 19 05:50:24 and that would be something rwhitby would have broke. ;) Oct 19 05:50:50 rwhitby, ping! :D Oct 19 05:53:00 samk1: I'm looking at it. Oct 19 05:53:23 ok Oct 19 05:59:31 the postinst_extra and prerm_extra aren't even making it into the ipkg Oct 19 05:59:39 neither are the png's Oct 19 06:00:03 ya, that's what I said. ;) Oct 19 06:00:26 lol Oct 19 06:02:51 rwhitby: ping Oct 19 06:04:10 dBsooner: which patch? Oct 19 06:04:19 universal search Oct 19 06:04:21 I htink I see the problem Oct 19 06:04:25 install -m 644 build/src-${VERSION}/postinst_extra build/all/usr/palm/applications/${APP_ID}/ Oct 19 06:04:25 install -m 644 build/src-${VERSION}/prerm_extra build/all/usr/palm/applications/${APP_ID}/ Oct 19 06:04:30 that's what it should be Oct 19 06:04:37 src-${VERSION} Oct 19 06:04:41 right? Oct 19 06:05:27 dBsooner: this has been caused due to the multiple commands for target problem. Oct 19 06:05:41 I knew I should have made you guys fix those ... Oct 19 06:05:46 lol Oct 19 06:06:18 so *_extra is a no go Oct 19 06:06:19 ;) Oct 19 06:06:29 dBsooner: which other patches override the .built target? Oct 19 06:07:25 camera-sound-toggle Oct 19 06:07:27 both Oct 19 06:07:41 messaging-timestamps-builtin Oct 19 06:07:50 universal-search Oct 19 06:07:55 and virtual-keyboard Oct 19 06:08:34 ok, I'll fix them now. Oct 19 06:08:44 how are you going to do that? Oct 19 06:08:52 We can't overwrite build/.built right? Oct 19 06:09:12 i'll just look at your commit diff. :D Oct 19 06:11:12 anyone know if the pre can act as a USB host like the openmoko could? Oct 19 06:11:22 I've got a frogpad keyboard I'd like to use Oct 19 06:12:29 brb.. rebooting after distro-upgrade Oct 19 06:14:55 dBsooner: feeds updated Oct 19 06:18:32 rwhitby, Thanks for fixing this so quickly! Oct 19 06:18:48 samk1: rwhitby doesn't do anything slow. ;) Oct 19 06:18:55 rwhitby: any ideas on if the pre hardware supports usb-host? Oct 19 06:18:55 :) Oct 19 06:19:07 hozer: chat to destinal about that Oct 19 06:19:24 when's a good time to find him? Oct 19 06:19:57 ~seen destinal Oct 19 06:19:59 destinal was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 2d 14h 18m 53s ago, saying: 'stefan_schmidt: no problem :)'. Oct 19 06:20:23 dBsooner, btw, I sent you a message earlier re my new patch Oct 19 06:20:23 * rwhitby bbl Oct 19 06:20:34 mmk Oct 19 06:20:45 phone slider. Oct 19 06:20:50 i saw the email Oct 19 06:21:03 ok. Do I need to do anything? Oct 19 06:21:06 i am going to get the new ones in pretty quick Oct 19 06:21:40 I'm not sure the process. It's all in your hands now? Oct 19 06:21:50 mine and egaudet's.. but mostly mine. Oct 19 06:22:10 Cool. Thanks. Let me know if you need anything. Oct 19 06:22:12 here the past couple days I have been slacking because of the wee one. Oct 19 06:22:48 no worries. all is good. Oct 19 06:23:47 lol.. rwhitby fixed it the way I thought he would Oct 19 06:24:21 did you say that the virtual keyboard was also affected? Oct 19 06:24:25 still overwriting build/.built... but added the -${VERSION} Oct 19 06:24:33 yeah, it was. Oct 19 06:24:46 but He had already fixed it Oct 19 06:24:48 in the past. Oct 19 06:24:54 ah, ok Oct 19 06:27:58 How do I make the pre notify me of a new email in a subfolder? Oct 19 06:28:20 my exchange server puts my mail to dBsooner@dbtrunk.com into a subfolder on arrival. Oct 19 06:28:33 The pre is only notifying me of new emails to main folder. Oct 19 06:30:51 Pre apps aren't exactly chock full of options Oct 19 06:31:20 I guess they chose just the main folder so you won't be getting alerts about new drafts, sent mail, etc. Oct 19 06:31:36 that's dumb Oct 19 06:31:42 feel like making a patch? ;) Oct 19 06:31:46 heh Oct 19 06:32:31 So far I haven't made any patches or apps that require a UI... Oct 19 06:33:08 blah, no need for UI.. I'll just give youa folder anme. Oct 19 06:33:15 wow Oct 19 06:33:21 you a folder name* Oct 19 06:33:36 haha Oct 19 06:34:16 I'll take a look at the email app tomorrow, just to see what it would take... Oct 19 06:36:44 has anyone played with the photo app to allow for longer exposure time ? Oct 19 06:38:48 morning Oct 19 06:39:24 samk1: give me a title and description Oct 19 06:40:04 dBsooner, give me a couple minutes Oct 19 06:40:12 This patch allows you to hang up on phone calls by sliding the Pre closed. Oct 19 06:40:17 i think I figured it out. ;) Oct 19 06:40:30 ok Oct 19 06:40:38 is the only way to hang up the touchscreen? Oct 19 06:40:46 "hang up phone calls" Oct 19 06:40:56 yeah, "keytoss" is going bye bye. ;) Oct 19 06:41:09 :( Oct 19 06:41:13 phone-slide-to-disconnect Oct 19 06:41:26 phone-slide-to-end-call Oct 19 06:41:54 yep, 2nd one. Oct 19 06:42:00 yes Oct 19 06:42:31 mk Oct 19 06:42:42 hrrm Oct 19 06:42:52 so would a slide in either direction disconnect? or just closing it? Oct 19 06:43:03 just closing it Oct 19 06:43:15 just closing Oct 19 06:43:20 oh you alrady said that Oct 19 06:43:21 ;) Oct 19 06:43:50 heh Oct 19 06:43:57 yeah, that would be nice Oct 19 06:44:02 I answer as aI read Oct 19 06:44:32 I miss the damn button on the treos Oct 19 06:44:51 I miss a lot of buttons. Oct 19 06:45:30 yeah, that's what sorta made the openmoko a no-go for me. Need a keyboard. Oct 19 06:45:54 and I need some damn arrow keys for the terminal :P Oct 19 06:50:11 hozer: map some Oct 19 06:50:17 phone-close-slide-to-end-call Oct 19 06:50:18 :D Oct 19 06:50:49 ? Oct 19 06:51:03 I renamed it again Oct 19 06:53:22 or would be it be close-slider? Oct 19 06:54:04 I still prefer KeyToss Phone Slider... Oct 19 06:54:18 lol Oct 19 06:54:49 it has to be part of our naming convention Oct 19 06:54:58 what is keytoss? Oct 19 06:55:11 KeyToss is my brand Oct 19 06:55:16 my website Oct 19 06:55:43 That's rwhitby's call Oct 19 06:55:58 phone-keytoss-phone-slider doesn't really sound right to me. Oct 19 06:56:09 It goes against the naming convention egaudet and I set. Oct 19 06:56:17 We want the title to describe the patch. Oct 19 06:56:46 KeyToss will be in the maintainer field, right? Oct 19 06:56:50 But since it's your brand, I can understand. But I want rwhitby to clear that. Oct 19 06:57:00 I will put KeyToss inthe maintainer field Oct 19 06:57:06 unless he wants "samk1" Oct 19 06:57:07 ok Oct 19 06:57:23 I can put KeyToss Oct 19 06:57:35 info@keytoss.com Oct 19 06:57:37 samk1: maintainer field and description, no problems. Oct 19 06:57:57 package id or package title, we'd need to consider that further ... Oct 19 06:57:59 I'll add it to description as well. Oct 19 06:58:05 cool Oct 19 06:58:35 I agree with rwhitby on this one. We need to consider it further because it would be in the actual package titles Oct 19 06:58:36 samk1: we want to give authors credit, but also want to reduce any extraneous information when people are searching for patches Oct 19 06:59:20 that being said, would it be "phone-close-slide-to-end-call" or "phone-close-slider-to-end-call"? Oct 19 06:59:24 thanks. I'm putting out free stuff in the hopes of strengthening the keytoss brand... Oct 19 06:59:40 slider Oct 19 06:59:43 slider Oct 19 06:59:56 s/slider/slider it is... hit enter too soon/ Oct 19 06:59:57 dBsooner meant: slider it is... hit enter too soon Oct 19 07:03:05 "KeyToss brings you this patch to allow you to end your phone call by closing the slider on your Pre." Oct 19 07:03:21 :D Oct 19 07:05:10 Actually: This will allow you to end your phone call by closing the slider on your Pre. This is another great patch from KeyToss. Oct 19 07:05:47 ok Oct 19 07:06:16 phone calls, plural.... to make it clear that all calls will be disconnected... Oct 19 07:08:07 How about, 'Developed by KeyToss.com'? It would sound like I'm praising myself... Oct 19 07:11:29 dBsooner: I agree that the first sentence of the description should just describe the functionality. Oct 19 07:12:17 Yea, That's what I thought too rwhitby. Oct 19 07:12:52 samk1: ok. Oct 19 07:13:46 * rwhitby goes back to unpacking the installer uImage to determine how to change the keyboard token ... Oct 19 07:14:24 rwhitby: trying to figure out how to make a german pre have a qwerty layout? Oct 19 07:16:01 DraX: yep Oct 19 07:16:01 DraX: see the thread in the mailing list ... Oct 19 07:16:15 i wasn't even aware there was a mailing list Oct 19 07:22:47 like? Oct 19 07:22:48 link Oct 19 07:28:18 sigh Oct 19 07:28:21 i was about to ping him Oct 19 07:28:29 rwhitby: ping Oct 19 07:28:46 dBsooner: yes? Oct 19 07:29:02 I was just otld about a possible bug in preware. Oct 19 07:29:14 "Also I found a bug in the patching. If you view the script and then choose cancel Preware thinks that the patch was installed (even though it throws an error) and i can no longer install or remove the patch. It doesn't even get removed when using the Emergency Patch Recovery. So now I have two patches not installed that Preware thinks are installed and cant fix with EPR. If you have some time to look at this and want me to tes Oct 19 07:29:14 t an update I would be happy to do so." Oct 19 07:31:30 yeah, ipkgservice should do an ipkg remove if the script is cancelled. Oct 19 07:31:44 tell them to use the Terminal to ipkg -o /var remove Oct 19 07:32:04 I will Oct 19 07:32:12 I just wanted you to know I got that message. Oct 19 07:33:20 it's now listed as a known bug on the wiki page Oct 19 07:53:29 rwhitby: if you are here, can you fire off a build? Oct 19 07:54:08 done Oct 19 07:54:32 thanks Oct 19 08:08:28 :/ Oct 19 08:11:48 connection difficulties oil? Oct 19 08:17:05 lol Oct 19 08:17:13 sometimes trillian crashes as soon as i join a channel Oct 19 08:18:38 so what is this shit, Oct 19 08:18:52 you can't have 2 sliders in the same scene with different min/max values Oct 19 08:19:00 absolutely retarded Oct 19 08:23:39 * rwhitby finds TrenchcoatStage.class in the doctor ... Oct 19 08:26:29 it just doesn't make any sense why they would have done that... Oct 19 08:28:35 oil: because they could! Oct 19 08:31:11 it means i have to do a 0-100 on all of them and do the min/max myself Oct 19 08:33:31 rwhitby: found how to patch it then? still haven't seen ml Oct 19 08:35:03 mailing list is at http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals/ Oct 19 08:35:34 it is for pure technical discussion only, no end-user support. Oct 19 08:35:47 aww, poor aunt minnie Oct 19 08:36:43 KEYoBRD is 'y' on QWERTZ, 'z' on QWERTY Oct 19 08:36:58 just to be confusing ... Oct 19 08:37:05 ah Oct 19 08:37:17 z is z on qwerty Oct 19 08:37:28 z is y on qwertz Oct 19 08:37:32 makes sense to me Oct 19 08:37:44 what is it on an azerty layout? Oct 19 08:37:48 like the naming of the tokens though Oct 19 08:38:00 z? so yes it breaks Oct 19 08:38:06 what value do they use there? Oct 19 08:38:39 I'd need to find someone with an AZERTY keyboard to find out Oct 19 08:40:25 makes sense Oct 19 08:41:07 no responses? Oct 19 08:49:04 novacom boot mem:// < nova-installer-image-castle.uImage Oct 19 08:49:18 (after "tellbootie recover") Oct 19 08:49:58 freakout: that boots you into the installer ramdisk environment Oct 19 08:50:15 from which I reckon trenchcoat can be run ... Oct 19 08:51:13 nice Oct 19 08:51:25 where does it get the initrd? Oct 19 08:51:29 inside of uImage? Oct 19 08:51:45 yep, there is a ramdisk Oct 19 08:52:12 alphaone: ^^ that's an easy way to test OE created uImage files Oct 19 08:53:15 and I reckon trenchcoat will take the castle.xml file (or a subset thereof) Oct 19 08:54:09 Nice Oct 19 08:55:41 yeah, isn't that what fso people are using? Oct 19 08:57:40 rwhitby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY Oct 19 08:58:22 Robi_: thanks - my guess for KEYoBRD on azerty is thus 'w' Oct 19 08:59:20 i saw the tweet but dont follow the KEYoBRD string Oct 19 08:59:59 Robi_: http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals/browse_thread/thread/fed548ed40e1af37 Oct 19 09:00:14 ya w Oct 19 09:01:01 token eh, funny name for it Oct 19 09:01:16 and where's the 'a' Oct 19 09:01:49 looks like you're god to g Oct 19 09:01:54 er good to go Oct 19 09:02:45 * rwhitby bbl Oct 19 09:03:54 has anyone played with the photo app to allow for longer exposure time ? Oct 19 09:04:07 msg if so, zzz time Oct 19 09:07:37 is this a symlink somewhere? Oct 19 09:07:40 '/var/preferences/com.palm.bus/public_bus_default Oct 19 09:41:31 hello guys Oct 19 09:41:35 hows it goin Oct 19 09:41:45 good good how are you? Oct 19 09:41:51 not bad Oct 19 09:42:31 waiting to get a Pre still... :( lol Oct 19 09:42:50 lol Oct 19 09:43:12 is http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/p113r0d10122009/wr640xdfgy12z/webosdoctorp100eww-wr.jar definently the doctor for UK and germany? Oct 19 09:43:27 idk Oct 19 09:43:30 isn't it on the wiki>? Oct 19 09:44:18 yeah thats what it says Oct 19 09:44:30 i would have thought they would have different ones for customisation etc Oct 19 09:45:46 looks like the doctor does have much at all Oct 19 09:45:54 greggles! good evening Oct 19 09:46:27 when are you putting your damn messaging patch in Preware? :p Oct 19 09:47:09 lol Oct 19 09:48:41 but seriously greg_roll... Oct 19 09:49:18 evening! Oct 19 09:49:28 soon, once i get it a little nicer Oct 19 09:49:35 hopefully next release Oct 19 09:50:21 lol Oct 19 09:50:30 I've heard that noise before :p Oct 19 09:50:50 And where's my Facebook chat huh? Oct 19 09:50:53 * freakout cracks whip Oct 19 09:51:10 My Pre gets here within the fortnight Oct 19 09:51:28 I need something to be bitterly disappointed about when it turns out Aussie SIMs don't work init Oct 19 09:51:51 hehehe lol Oct 19 09:52:02 Facebook is such a pain!!! Oct 19 09:52:02 i'm having no luck Oct 19 09:52:07 oil tells me I don't need it anyway Oct 19 09:52:15 but oil is just bitter because he has no Facebook friends Oct 19 09:52:19 im building a new compiling environment now to see if that helps Oct 19 09:52:23 hehe lol Oct 19 09:52:23 And no sexy pictures to share like me. Oct 19 09:52:41 greg_roll: oh? Cool. What's the issue anyways? Oct 19 09:53:18 no facebook friends because i don't have a facebook account is different Oct 19 09:53:29 lol Oct 19 09:53:34 it crashes, i think ive traced it down to glib Oct 19 09:53:38 but i dont know why Oct 19 09:53:43 are you a linux guru? Oct 19 09:53:46 oil: yeah, but you don't have an account 'cause you know that nobody will be your friend on it. Oct 19 09:53:52 greg_roll: LMAO Oct 19 09:53:57 greg_roll: if only. Oct 19 09:54:12 greg_roll: I only installed Ubuntu two months ago. Oct 19 09:55:05 says the guy who was asking what my account was so he could send me a request... Oct 19 09:55:22 hehe i need some linux C guru! Oct 19 09:56:32 oil: I have 210 friends. But one of them de-friended me the other day so I need to make up the numbers :p Oct 19 09:56:47 lol Oct 19 09:56:52 greg_roll: Hmmm. Destinal maybe? but I haven't seen him around in ages Oct 19 09:57:13 yeah i think he helped me out originally Oct 19 09:57:23 been trying to get on during the day but work has been busy Oct 19 09:57:30 * freakout hears that Oct 19 09:57:51 * freakout hates work. hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates hates it Oct 19 09:59:37 rwhitby is c pro, no? Oct 19 09:59:41 egaudet? Oct 19 10:00:07 * rwhitby has done some C in the past ... Oct 19 10:02:04 rwhitby, that's not a euphemism for crack right? Oct 19 10:02:09 glib? Oct 19 10:02:38 freakout: in libpurple :) Oct 19 10:03:04 heh Oct 19 10:04:02 yeah whenever glib calls are made (well 2 of them ive noticed) it either crashes or returns incorrect info Oct 19 10:08:59 "novacom -w -- boot mem:// < nova-installer-image-castle.uImage" is even better - waits for the device to reappear after tellbootie recover Oct 19 10:12:23 rwhitby: whats that do?? Oct 19 10:12:42 greg_roll: loads the installer ramdisk Oct 19 10:13:04 cool! Oct 19 10:13:12 now, the next thing I'm going to do can possibly brick my Pre. Oct 19 10:13:26 yes??? Oct 19 10:13:31 dun-dun-DAAAAAH Oct 19 10:13:50 going to run trenchcoat with a nop castle.xml Oct 19 10:14:56 rwhitby: what is that all about? what will that do? Oct 19 10:15:10 greg_roll: I'm working out how to change tokens Oct 19 10:15:37 rwhitby: tokens? Oct 19 10:16:23 greg_roll: http://webos.pastebin.com/d3a428b0 Oct 19 10:16:36 In particular, KEYoBRD Oct 19 10:17:10 greg_roll: Working on tricking webOS into loading the QWERTY keymap rather than QWERTZ Oct 19 10:17:12 arhhh I see where your going. Very cool! Oct 19 10:17:26 bbl Oct 19 10:17:54 wouldn't selecting English setting make 'Z' on the german Pre make it a 'Y' anyway? Oct 19 10:18:00 freakout: bye Oct 19 10:21:03 http://bit.ly/4cpjDS heh Oct 19 10:22:03 greg_roll: it does not. Oct 19 10:22:42 damn :( thats bad! I hope you figure it out Oct 19 10:23:44 good luck!!! Oct 19 10:23:58 http://webos.pastebin.com/d8d4d5b is all I've been game to do so far. Oct 19 10:24:24 Luckily, trenchcoat can write to files for testing. Oct 19 10:26:59 nice! so if you brick your phone the webosdoc can't fix it? Oct 19 10:38:59 greg_roll: I expect if I kill the bootloader, webosdoc wouldn't be able to fix Oct 19 10:39:31 there is a more primitive booting means, but I don't know how to work it Oct 19 10:40:15 rwhitby: hope you dont break it then!! Oct 19 10:41:31 heh Oct 19 10:41:46 Well ya see, this is why I didn't want to try flashing 1.2 to my UK pre ;) Oct 19 10:43:52 the next fun is trying to figure out the simlock Oct 19 10:46:09 rwhitby: isn't bootloader partly in rom? Oct 19 10:51:10 to make things difficult? Oct 19 10:58:54 Marajin: flashing 1.2 onto UK Pre should work fine. Oct 19 10:59:24 tmzt: there's a flash partition called "bootloader" with "/boot/boot.bin" flashed into it ... Oct 19 10:59:35 okay Oct 19 10:59:38 on which flash? Oct 19 10:59:45 wait, lvm? Oct 19 10:59:54 greg_roll: simlock will be on radio chip, not directly accessible from linux I expect. Oct 19 10:59:56 I can't imaging that bootie reads lvm directly Oct 19 11:00:02 right Oct 19 11:00:10 bootie doesn't need to read lvm Oct 19 11:00:19 and it's an msm chip, the possibilities and limitations are known and I assume off-topic Oct 19 11:00:30 cause /boot is a 32MB ext3 partition Oct 19 11:00:32 how does it boot? Oct 19 11:00:34 ok Oct 19 11:00:36 so not looking good for an unlock? Oct 19 11:00:37 ext3? Oct 19 11:01:04 so it needs to read ext3? Oct 19 11:01:08 greg_roll: oh, someone will work it out, but will be a modem hacker guy, not a linux developer. Oct 19 11:02:01 rwhitby: thanks, so it looks like the german pre is my go, especially if you get the keyboard sorted :) Oct 19 11:02:11 tmzt: look in castle.xml in the doctor for the details Oct 19 11:02:38 greg_roll: the theory looks sound, but I'll wait for the practical to be proven Oct 19 11:02:45 I'm just wondering if there's a lower level recovery over bootie Oct 19 11:02:53 though we had somebody here who knew Oct 19 11:02:56 I'm going to try and fool my CDMA Pre into thinking it has a qwertz keyboard Oct 19 11:02:57 (and could tell us) Oct 19 11:03:11 tmzt: I'm sure there is, I just don't know it. Oct 19 11:03:13 rwhitby: are you going to try tonight? Oct 19 11:03:19 so no checksum or anything on there? Oct 19 11:03:49 * rwhitby bbiab (kids to bed) Oct 19 11:23:41 alphaone: can you please tell me what "PmModemInfo -e" says on your device? Oct 19 11:25:40 $MODEM MODEL=UMTS Oct 19 11:25:40 $FW VERSION=CU0.5.13(127) Oct 19 11:26:11 alphaone: does it give an MEID or other unique identifier (I'm not expecting you to paste it) Oct 19 11:26:32 rwhitby: MEID is cdma, IMEI is gsm/umts Oct 19 11:26:52 $IMEI, yes Oct 19 11:26:59 alphaone: ok, thanks. Oct 19 11:37:40 hi guys Oct 19 11:37:49 i downloaded org.webosinternals.messaging_1.0.4_armv7.ipk Oct 19 11:37:54 it's now on my palm Oct 19 11:37:58 but how do i install it? Oct 19 11:44:48 marco__: use webos quick install Oct 19 11:45:03 i tried it, but maybe did not found the right file Oct 19 11:45:05 i'm using mac Oct 19 11:45:31 do you have preware on your phone Oct 19 11:45:31 ? Oct 19 11:45:33 tried to install the ipk over novaterm with 'ipkg install org.webosinternals.messaging_1.0.4_armv7.ipk Oct 19 11:45:35 yes Oct 19 11:45:38 already installed Oct 19 11:45:46 my tether run's for example Oct 19 11:45:53 marco__: you need "ipkg -o /var install ...." Oct 19 11:46:12 never run ipkg without the -o /var switch Oct 19 11:46:32 okay Oct 19 11:46:38 and from what directory? Oct 19 11:46:46 ipk is located in /tmp Oct 19 11:46:52 doesn't matter - the last argument is a pathname Oct 19 11:47:11 Clearing state_want and state_flag for pkg=org.webosinternals.messaging (arch_priority=0 flag=16 want=2) Oct 19 11:47:11 An error ocurred, return value: 4. Oct 19 11:47:12 Collected errors: Oct 19 11:47:12 Cannot find package org.webosinternals.messaging. Oct 19 11:47:12 Check the spelling or perhaps run 'ipkg update' Oct 19 11:47:20 that's the error message i got Oct 19 11:50:28 where can i download the webos quick install jar file? Oct 19 11:50:43 thought on http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/205914-messaging-plugins-live-yahoo-icq.html Oct 19 11:50:54 but i can't find a link to the jar file in the first post Oct 19 11:51:40 sorry... wrong url... http://forums.precentral.net/canuck-software/194832-webos-quick-install.html Oct 19 11:51:45 but with the same problem Oct 19 11:54:57 marco__: if you installed Preware, then you must already have webos quick install Oct 19 11:55:14 why? i did it over usb and rooted my pre Oct 19 11:56:36 marco__: which wiki page were you following? Oct 19 11:56:53 (to install Preware) Oct 19 11:57:08 we talked yesterday (if you reminding) Oct 19 11:57:23 if followed: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps Oct 19 11:57:33 that doesn't install Preware Oct 19 11:57:47 that installs Optware Oct 19 11:58:12 rwhitby: now I see why you want to move it :) Oct 19 12:00:31 my mistake was java 5 Oct 19 12:00:32 i made it Oct 19 12:00:43 but it still displays error 4 with installing messaging ipkg Oct 19 12:00:45 ?? Oct 19 12:02:31 marco__: did you install Preware? Oct 19 12:03:02 seems to be no Oct 19 12:03:07 how do i do this? Oct 19 12:03:21 marco__: first hit on Google for Preware gets the wiki page with instructions Oct 19 12:03:33 okay... i will try it Oct 19 12:04:00 greg_roll: I can't yet work out how to reflash just a token using trenchcoat, without also reformatting the /boot and lvm partitions ... Oct 19 12:04:34 rwhitby: did you workout if there's a checksum or anything? Oct 19 12:04:57 I might suggest find where /dev/tokens is populated first Oct 19 12:05:07 trying to give the script or whatever the wrong value Oct 19 12:05:34 but you may be able to use a hex editor (like lde) and just change the value in p1 directly Oct 19 12:05:37 i got it Oct 19 12:05:46 tmzt: I've found all that, it's by running trenchcoat Oct 19 12:06:09 trenchcoat runs everytime the phone boots? Oct 19 12:06:13 there is no script which populates it - population of the tokens would be done at the factory as part of final test and calibration Oct 19 12:06:13 I don't understand Oct 19 12:06:19 right Oct 19 12:06:22 no, trenchcoat runs to flash Oct 19 12:06:27 but what populates /dev/tokens Oct 19 12:06:40 possiblities, it's a virtual fs Oct 19 12:06:41 tmzt: /sbin/tokens --mount Oct 19 12:06:44 cat /proc/fs Oct 19 12:06:55 cat /proc/filesystems or cat /proc/mounts Oct 19 12:06:59 should tell you that Oct 19 12:07:05 that's a compiled program? Oct 19 12:07:10 yes Oct 19 12:07:21 and it just writes to /dev/tokens? Oct 19 12:07:24 they are just files? Oct 19 12:07:26 no Oct 19 12:07:39 then what are they? Oct 19 12:09:05 tmzt: it doesn't matter, it's the nvram I'm trying to change Oct 19 12:09:24 but you know that changing it changes the keymap? Oct 19 12:09:28 well, right Oct 19 12:09:44 but is there a checksum or something else preventing you from changing the values directly? Oct 19 12:10:03 it's in flash Oct 19 12:10:05 and what is the recovery procedure if somethign goes wrong? Oct 19 12:10:08 it's in sd Oct 19 12:10:20 right, mmcblk0 Oct 19 12:10:46 the lack of a bootloader recovery procedure is why I am using trenchcoat Oct 19 12:11:48 right Oct 19 12:11:55 but you just said that it replaces everything? Oct 19 12:13:58 rwhitby: I must be too tired, playing with phone stack on my touch pro and don't want to sleep Oct 19 12:15:44 tmzt: do you have castle.xml there? Oct 19 12:15:55 no Oct 19 12:36:03 time to test out using the doctor to change tokens Oct 19 12:42:15 here goes .... Oct 19 12:43:58 Oct 19 23:12:38 oils [0x0-0xf10f1].com.apple.JarLauncher[23978]: overwriting existing token 'KEYoBRD' Oct 19 12:48:38 * freakout holds breath Oct 19 12:49:58 * rwhitby notices http://www.expansys.com.au/d.aspx?i=189373 while waiting ... Oct 19 12:50:30 hooboy Oct 19 12:50:33 $940? Oct 19 12:51:33 $481 EUR = $780 AUD Oct 19 12:51:59 even with shipping, that's a pretty hefty premium they're charging... Oct 19 12:52:41 * freakout is trying to decide whether or not to cover tharris' floating point bug in webOS 1.1 Oct 19 12:53:01 Is it news? I appreciate Ladd's work on a geek level, but 1.1 is old hat now Oct 19 12:53:48 $160 for a 1 year warranty is a bit much ... Oct 19 12:53:51 that zinc2 is cheap even in aud Oct 19 12:54:06 phone is rebooting ... Oct 19 12:54:30 right, so we should check back with you on Wednesday rwhitby? xD Oct 19 12:55:14 http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=189373 Oct 19 12:55:39 root@castle:/# tokens --list Oct 19 12:55:46 "KEYoBRD" = "y" (1 bytes) Oct 19 12:55:53 'z' -> 'y' Oct 19 12:55:55 rwhitby: yeah, saw something else that seems to be ppc phone very cheap Oct 19 12:56:41 whz oh whz is my kezboard working funnz ? Oct 19 12:56:55 rwhitby: 500 GBP? 481 EUR = 439 GBP... expansys must make a tidy sum Oct 19 12:56:55 lol Oct 19 12:57:10 rwhitbz has kezboard? Oct 19 12:57:34 i hay kezboard Oct 19 12:57:44 nice! Oct 19 12:58:14 The next question is obvious: can this be made easy for Aunt Minnie? Oct 19 12:59:00 freakout: meta-doctor can do it Oct 19 12:59:13 rwhitby: funky Oct 19 12:59:26 rwhitby: staying up much longer? Oct 19 12:59:36 maybe I can sell the technique to these importers and take a share of the profits they are making ... Oct 19 12:59:46 there's certainly enough to go around Oct 19 13:07:41 I'm considering posting a bounty thread on PreCentral. Oct 19 13:08:22 on who/what? Oct 19 13:09:10 send me enough donations to purchase a German Pre, and I'll give the instructions ;-) Oct 19 13:09:15 lmao Oct 19 13:09:28 which forum do you think would be best? Oct 19 13:09:41 the bounty forum Oct 19 13:11:44 I know - a one week bounty. I'll release the information in one week, or as soon as donations hit the required level, whichever comes earlier. Oct 19 13:12:13 you whore, rwhitby :p Oct 19 13:13:36 I should test azerty as well ... Oct 19 13:14:06 For completism's sake, yes. Oct 19 13:20:42 Should I go to the Sprint event in two weeks? Think it's worth it -- ? Oct 19 13:24:27 * rwhitby flashes to azerty ... Oct 19 13:30:51 success? Oct 19 13:37:56 I just saw an ad in craigslist had the following sentences: All applicants MUST HAVE A BACHELOR's DEGREE... This position will be paid $10 per hour and will be part time Oct 19 13:38:24 azerty phone is rebooting ... Oct 19 13:38:31 The above is for technical support working with exchange servers and linux. Oct 19 13:39:00 thatdude: wow, what an opportunity :/ Oct 19 13:39:04 good luck finding someone who will work on exchange and linux :-) Oct 19 13:39:44 Yep, AZERTY works too. Oct 19 13:42:57 funky Oct 19 14:04:11 reality check? There are like 200 persons per IT job applicants...why shouldn't the pay drop? Oct 19 14:04:34 What's really amazing is that the schools are still advertising you can make lots of money in computers Oct 19 14:04:53 FreeTim3: $10 per hour is ridiculous Oct 19 14:05:07 FreeTim3: In Australia anyways, you could make more working at McDonald's Oct 19 14:05:20 I disagree politely. You should see how many applicants we get per position Oct 19 14:06:03 FreeTim3: I disagree somewhat impolitely. :p Oct 19 14:06:26 FreeTim3: Paying people slave wages is no way to engender employee loyalty, if such a thing even matters anymore. Oct 19 14:06:29 I mean it's just supply and demand, and with all the layoffs everywhere .... Oct 19 14:07:04 * freakout is glad not to live in a country where the economy is tanking Oct 19 14:16:06 10 dollars an hour with benifits is pretty bad. Oct 19 14:16:34 On the plus side you get one of those food cards. Oct 19 14:25:43 hey all. just a quickie. how do i remove optware safely and reinstall it? Oct 19 14:26:00 should i just blow away the dir and re-run the setup script? Oct 19 14:32:15 http://www.precentral.net/qwerty-keyboard-layout-german-palm-pre Oct 19 14:53:19 ~emulate rwhitby Oct 19 14:53:20 Well, my work here is done. Oct 19 14:53:30 * rwhitby bbt - good night all Oct 19 14:54:20 gnite rwhitby Oct 19 14:56:38 Have any of you guys seen PreGame lately? Oct 19 15:19:42 hrrm.. Is the O2 branded pre GSM, or CDMA? Oct 19 15:23:13 I want to talk to the maintainer/developer for a particular patch ("Read/Delete All Email"). Preware tells me this is 'Lclarkjr'. I'm not sure how to find/contact this person. Any ideas? Oct 19 15:23:41 if u click on his name can you email him? Oct 19 15:23:44 or her Oct 19 15:25:45 nope Oct 19 15:29:36 I installed the Enable Landscape PDF patch before the Extract PDF Viewer patch, and now seem unable to remove or upgrade either of them. Oct 19 15:29:57 (this was a couple of weeks ago, before the dependancy checking went live, and done through preware) Oct 19 15:30:22 xalbo: if you can't 'fix' it, running EPR should roll back the patches and get you to a sane starting point Oct 19 15:30:23 Can anyone point me to how the patches are applied/removed on the backend so that I can clean up this situation? Oct 19 15:31:09 xalbo: I assume you're running preware? Oct 19 15:31:09 Yeah, I'd considered that. Wanted to see if it was easy to 'fix' first, so I don't have to reinstall all the others afterwards. Oct 19 15:31:14 I am. Oct 19 15:31:39 xalbo: okay, so you know how to run EPR (I was about to tell you how to find it and run it) Oct 19 15:32:31 xalbo: I believe (but am not positive) that patches are now applied using ipkg and are in the namespace of org.webosinternals.patches. Oct 19 15:33:27 xalbo: so, theoretically you can do "ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.patches." to remove a patch Oct 19 15:35:16 xalbo: for full disclosure, I do not consider myself to be an expert in this area. I feel that I know enough that I'd do these things to my own phone without seeking an expert (and I tend to be cautious), but I have not [yet] been involved in the development or testing of preware, the ipkg service, patches, etc. Oct 19 15:35:52 Understood. Thank you for your advise, and also for the warning. Oct 19 15:36:37 I absolutely blame no one but myself for any damage I inflict, as long as I don't do anything that takes more than a WebOS Doctor to fix. Oct 19 15:36:42 :) Oct 19 15:36:46 :) Oct 19 15:41:04 That appears to have done it. Specifically, since it *didn't* run the prerm script (which was what was failing), it removed fine. Then I could remove the other and put them back on in the right order. Oct 19 15:41:08 Thank you very much! Oct 19 15:49:09 You know, automatic rotation to landscape mode is only nice if all your pictures are already oriented right. Oct 19 15:49:50 Just got an SMS that was taken sidewise. I can't turn the phone to see it right, because it keeps rotating. Reminds me of the old joke program that moves the button when the mouse gets near it. Oct 19 15:51:18 nice Oct 19 15:55:02 hmm.. does the palm pre work with orb streams? Oct 19 16:19:09 precentral makes me giggle Oct 19 16:20:03 like this thread http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/209702-gpu-access-lag-free-pre.html Oct 19 16:22:36 heh, sadly, this post reflects a sad reality: http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/209702-gpu-access-lag-free-pre-6.html#post1982593 Oct 19 16:22:39 Hmm, what about it? Oct 19 16:22:42 historically, that's palm Oct 19 16:23:39 Historically yea... Oct 19 16:24:01 so, appararently gmail has push for the pre without using it under exchange. Oct 19 16:24:02 But I'm told the reason why things are moving slow is because they are working to get webkit 4. Oct 19 16:24:23 i think 1.3 is going to have major improvements considering docs2go was delayed Oct 19 16:24:35 gkatsev: both the Pre and GMail support IMAP IDLE (which is push e-mail via IMAP) Oct 19 16:24:48 well, let's hope so Oct 19 16:25:02 perhaps even a "disable sync for this account" too Oct 19 16:25:17 and iirc palm didn't own palmos when they made the centro which is why it wasn't really updated Oct 19 16:25:17 but i could be wrong on that Oct 19 16:25:32 nt4cats: ok, i didnt know till the other day i was looking and gmail sync went to gmail prefs and saw an option to show emails as they come in instead of check every 5/15/30/60/120 minutes Oct 19 16:25:57 If they are getting ready for webkit 4 it would explain why things like canvas and such have not been extended. Oct 19 16:26:22 * gkatsev -> lunch Oct 19 16:26:56 regardless palm isn't the only one guilty of not really implementing a gpu Oct 19 16:27:12 the last 3 or 4 htc winmo phones had either not-implemented or completely broken ass drivers Oct 19 16:27:49 there's probably a really good reason as to why it wasn't used Oct 19 16:27:55 Yea, that's because WinMo is milking 6.5 till they have perfected their new OS. Oct 19 16:28:02 no it's htc's fault Oct 19 16:28:09 windows doesn't develop gpu drivers Oct 19 16:28:30 The new one will have to have it if they plan to move to tegra. Oct 19 16:29:03 ARM cannot be the future, they are probably expanding to other chips. Oct 19 16:30:26 arm is plenty powerful and there's no other embedded processor that has as much power with as little power requirements Oct 19 16:30:47 you have to realize webos is missing a lot of frameworks palm is planning to implement Oct 19 16:30:54 it's part of being an early adopter Oct 19 17:05:30 slide-closed-to-hangup!! AWEPICSOME!!!!! Oct 19 17:05:33 * Mousey glees Oct 19 17:05:34 GLEE! Oct 19 17:05:51 *ahem* Oct 19 17:05:55 morning y'all Oct 19 17:06:04 o_O Oct 19 18:24:19 ok linux gurus Oct 19 18:25:15 How do I enable seamless integration of a program in VirtualBox? Oct 19 18:25:16 * Mousey perks up Oct 19 18:25:21 * Mousey perks back down Oct 19 18:25:23 lol Oct 19 18:25:37 with the nick of Mousey and perking up... I'll leave that alone. Oct 19 18:25:45 >_> Oct 19 18:25:47 <_< Oct 19 18:25:57 what do you mean "seamless integration" anyway Oct 19 18:26:02 like install a program? Oct 19 18:26:43 Mousey: Like I am running an XP Vbox.. I want to install Outlook. Then I want to be able to launch outlook from Gnome without firing up the entire box. Oct 19 18:26:52 I know it can be done since VBox 1.5, but don't know how. Oct 19 18:26:53 YOU CAN DO THAT?!? Oct 19 18:26:56 yes Oct 19 18:26:58 this isn't vmware-fusion mate Oct 19 18:27:03 http://liquidat.wordpress.com/2007/09/05/screenshots-virtualboxs-seamless-integration/ Oct 19 18:27:15 no, it's just like fusion Oct 19 18:27:16 man, wrong channel Oct 19 18:27:24 first of all Oct 19 18:27:25 second of all Oct 19 18:27:28 cool!! Oct 19 18:27:29 lol Oct 19 18:27:40 * dBsooner does a channel list to find a virtual box channel Oct 19 18:27:55 * Mousey reconsiders virtualbox Oct 19 18:28:58 I'll switch to vmware if I can't figure it out Oct 19 18:29:06 because I don't really care either way. :D Oct 19 18:29:27 well fusion, afaik is for mac only. and is also !free Oct 19 18:29:31 (as in beer) Oct 19 18:29:40 My only beef right now with vbox is it won't fire up my first partitions win7 64bit install.. it gives me errors on it. Oct 19 18:30:04 Mousey, anything is free if you know the right people. I am a beta tester for tons and tons of companies. ;) Oct 19 18:30:23 ahh Oct 19 18:30:26 #vbox Oct 19 18:35:06 hey all. has anyone made some decent native C++ code on a rooted pre? I compiled and tried my poker simulation project for college Oct 19 18:35:10 it worked great Oct 19 18:37:34 seemless integration has worked for VirtualBox for quite some time... and opengl acceleration, as well as some beta directx support Oct 19 18:42:19 can you elaborate on the question ? Oct 19 18:43:42 sure, such as something that utilizes advanced features of c++. My test program had exceptions, classes, and templates. It all seemed to work thanks to optware :) Oct 19 18:44:18 i'm thinking ... this could be a great platform for development, because with usb tethering, one can ssh in any time and work on something :) Oct 19 18:45:01 ugh crap i gtg. i'll be back later Oct 19 19:10:48 * dBsooner grumbles Oct 19 19:11:10 * dBsooner needs to figure out how to get dd-wrt to install pptp client Oct 19 19:14:10 I am a bit confused.. binary apps can..or can't.. be compiled to run on the pre? Oct 19 19:18:32 wh0dat: the pre is an arm linux box, you can compile and run whatever you want on it. however,getting it to display in the closed-source GUI / manager (luna) is a little less straightforward (it's nothing like X). if you don't mind stopping luna (which makes your phone more a handheld linux box than a phone, in effect) you can run directfb based stuff on the display directly. (pre ships with native directfb support usable when luna isn't runni Oct 19 19:19:50 to do GUI applications inside luna in C, we've created browser plugin based applications (the same way classic does) -- for instance, the terminal app works this way. a mojo application that embeds a browser plugin which is a native binary app and renders to the screen buffer provided via the NPAPI plugin interface Oct 19 19:20:12 destinal: man that was an awsome answer, and clears everything up for me. so thats why things like doom and ninendo emulator work. Oct 19 19:20:27 I keep hearing 'cant do binary apps' then i see things like those projects. Oct 19 19:21:35 wh0dat: right, doom and the nes emu are directfb usable when luna is stopped. terminal is a browser plugin wrapped in a mojo app that runs inside luna Oct 19 19:22:19 ameng has been working on a browser plugin that is a directfb display and keyboard and mouse, in effect, so that you can do the same things inside luna Oct 19 19:22:28 and still use directfb Oct 19 19:22:59 so, even right now, if someone were motivated anough, he could write a nice 3d game for the pre using directfb, and just have an icon on the luna browser than stops luna first, then launches the game. Oct 19 19:23:23 oh.. what you said is even better i guess ;) Oct 19 19:23:42 wh0dat: yeah, more or less. for 3d in software at least Oct 19 19:24:02 wh0dat: for hardware acceleration we still have a ways to go though there is supposed to be support in the chipset Oct 19 19:24:03 yeah accessing the gpu is a whole other deal Oct 19 19:24:37 wh0dat: also killing luna is bad for those of us who use the pre as a phone Oct 19 19:24:55 you should start a news page on the wiki and post everything you just said here ;) Oct 19 19:25:06 precentral is good for news but not the kind of news you just mentioned. Oct 19 19:26:27 destinal: yeah the browser plugin sounds best. Oct 19 19:27:15 wh0dat: another thing we've thought about is to try and get virtual console switching to work properly so we can switch between native directfb and luna Oct 19 19:27:35 that would work too Oct 19 19:33:52 another thing i am confused about is this chroot thing. Oct 19 19:34:31 all it does is change some-other-directory to be / Oct 19 19:34:46 but then i hear you can 'run debian' on your pre by doing it. Oct 19 19:38:29 wh0dat: 'chroot' changes the base folder of the system, allowing you to in principle switch dynamically between various linux configurations Oct 19 19:39:33 wh0dat: IMagine if you will, you have a system in /system1 and a system in /system2... by chroot /system1 or /system2 you can select which one linux treats as the actual root (/) and thus which it tries to load the default binaries/libaries/etc from Oct 19 19:40:07 mkdir test ; chroot test <- blows up abound not finding bash Oct 19 19:40:15 wh0dat: in this case, what they're referring to is running a debian userland (which is all debian is besides the kernel really) using chroot. say you have a /debian (with /debian/bin, /debian/usr, /debian/lib etc.. all the standard debian environment compiled for the platform you're running on) -- if you chroot to it, /debian/bin "becomes" /bin, etc in the context of the chrooted environment Oct 19 19:40:27 oh i get it i would need a whole distro installed under 'test' first. Oct 19 19:40:30 thus if you were to put debian extracted into a folder on your pre, and chrooted to that folder, you'd be running debian Oct 19 19:40:32 wh0dat: correct Oct 19 19:41:08 wh0dat: if you chroot there are two parameters.. the first is the folder to treat as root and the 2nd is the relative path to the shell, which it'll assume is /bin/bash if you don't specify, from memory Oct 19 19:41:23 how do all these debian binarys run under the custom pre kernel though? Oct 19 19:41:52 wh0dat: ... linux is more or less linux.. the kernel's very point is to mask hardware from the binaries Oct 19 19:41:58 wh0dat: linux binaries aren't generally that particular as to what kernel they run under Oct 19 19:42:04 thats like copying 'nano' from a freebsd box and expecting it to run on my ubuntu box in my mind Oct 19 19:42:11 heh Oct 19 19:42:20 in itself not as ludicrous a concept as you'd expec Oct 19 19:42:21 t Oct 19 19:43:06 wh0dat: basically so long as the libraries are there and the system calls work the binary is compiled for the architecture / processor you're running it on, the kernel doesn't matter Oct 19 19:43:15 so any terminal-based linux app will run out-of-the-box on the pre? Oct 19 19:43:25 wh0dat: in theory Oct 19 19:43:26 wh0dat: so long as it's built for armel Oct 19 19:43:42 and the libraries it needs are there Oct 19 19:43:52 destinal: how much you know about open-wrt/dd-wrt/rwhitby's stuff? Oct 19 19:44:06 there's a package somewhere that installs a few hundred linux binaries on the pre I think Oct 19 19:44:21 Marajin: there's optware Oct 19 19:44:27 armel? Oct 19 19:44:28 Marajin: That would be optware. Oct 19 19:45:24 yeah, I only got me pre a few days ago so not really sure of the package names but I remembered reading about it :) Oct 19 19:45:47 wh0dat: armel is a specific ARM ABI (application binary interface), el refers to little-endian Oct 19 19:46:39 basically you need binaries built for the type of CPU / memory architecture etc you're running under, but fortunately there are a few distributions already out there for armel Oct 19 19:47:06 wh0dat: or you can always build your own binaries and then you'll be sure :P Oct 19 19:47:17 I imagine angstrom and debian arm being the most noteable there of Oct 19 19:47:50 destinal: i believe my nokia n810 also uses it Oct 19 19:48:42 wh0dat, Marajin: yeah, there's also optware which was originally started by rwhitby for the NSLU2-linux project Oct 19 19:49:06 i am going to copy a binary from my nokia to my pre and see what happends ;) Oct 19 19:49:15 wh0dat: I imagine it'll run just fine Oct 19 19:49:40 wh0dat: so long as you copy any libraries it needs that aren't already there Oct 19 19:50:35 so would it be easier than at first glance to maybe install maemos on the pre and use that as the gui interface instead of luna? Oct 19 19:50:54 wh0dat: you may be interested to know that the Nokia N900 is very very similar in hardware specs to the pre Oct 19 19:51:19 thats very interesting Oct 19 19:51:51 same cortex-a8 ARM system, same amount of RAM, Oct 19 19:52:00 some other things Oct 19 19:52:36 i have a feeling down the road we will be able to run apps made for the n900.. that would be awsome ;) Oct 19 19:52:37 wh0dat: yeah I think porting maemo would be very useful Oct 19 19:53:37 just to get it up and running shouldn't be that hard (I assume the version used in n900 has source code released already?) but interfacing the custom hardware may be trickier, I'd advise just interfacing to palm's provided services Oct 19 19:53:51 so it would become kind of a maemo webos hybrid at least to start Oct 19 19:55:54 from what I've seen of the new maemo version it looks to be quite decent, I've thought about looking into this for a bit Oct 19 19:56:41 yeah it's pretty sweet. unfortunatly it won't run on the N810.. have to upgrade to the N900. Oct 19 19:57:06 grrr Oct 19 19:57:14 seamlessRDP is a SHAM, an OLD WIVES TALE Oct 19 19:57:24 * Mousey disbelieves Oct 19 19:58:01 how is real-time sound coming along? Oct 19 20:07:49 Does the touchscreen turn off when the phone is asleep? Oct 19 20:13:58 hrrrm.. So has anyone looked at doing a Mojo-X X-server? Oct 19 20:14:13 i.e., something like what Apple's X11.app does.. Oct 19 20:21:15 * freakout is soon going to be known as "that guy that went psycho and shot up the PayPal offices" Oct 19 20:21:43 Did you guys hear about the school shooting in SC? Oct 19 20:21:46 you really do freak out a lot, don't you ? Oct 19 20:22:23 bpadalino Oct 19 20:22:26 bah Oct 19 20:22:39 bpadalino|work: when I'm waiting for Pre money to transfer, yes :p Oct 19 20:23:02 destinal: cal@castle:~$ ./gnuchess Oct 19 20:23:04 GNU Chess 5.07 Oct 19 20:25:47 morning Oct 19 20:26:17 morning. Oct 19 20:26:35 rwhitby, I thought your nick would be "rwhitby, brought to you by PreCentral.net" by now :p Oct 19 20:26:45 hehe Oct 19 20:28:31 rwhitby! Oct 19 20:28:35 I needdddeeddd you Oct 19 20:28:46 for off-topic something Oct 19 20:30:48 freakout: I even sent in the full instructions to the palminfocenter news tip, but they didn't change your article at all ... Oct 19 20:30:57 * freakout facepalms Oct 19 20:31:12 Y'know, sometimes Ryan confuses me. Oct 19 20:31:38 mail them to me? Oct 19 20:32:10 rwhitby: let me know if you have time for a quick (or not so) question about wrt and linksys. Oct 19 20:32:17 they're in the thread Oct 19 20:32:26 k Oct 19 20:39:48 :O Oct 19 20:40:03 what the hell is with people "thanking" PreCentral for donating the GSM Pre dosh? Oct 19 20:40:13 it's not like Dieter is buying *them* one Oct 19 20:43:22 sycophants Oct 19 20:50:31 freakout: so my payment has been made to my German colleague, and he will purchase on wed or thu and maybe ship on fri. He's going to check for dead pixels at the shop :-) Oct 19 20:50:38 lol Oct 19 20:50:44 Oreo too? Oct 19 20:50:59 * freakout wishes he had a credit card on PayPal instead of a bank account Oct 19 20:51:01 general checkout of hardware Oct 19 20:51:27 I'm still waiting for those drongos to process my transfer. I did it on thursday. how freaking long does it take? Oct 19 20:51:32 what's the 'oreo' bit? Oct 19 20:51:43 Rod, can he take out the OS too? Oct 19 20:52:03 DarthPooh: take out the OS? Oct 19 20:52:09 ;) nm Oct 19 20:52:27 hozer: side to side wobble. I dunno if it's ever really as bad as people say it is. Oct 19 20:53:22 I thought so ;) Mine does that a little Oct 19 20:53:22 what DarthPooh, you want them to replace it with Crackberry OS? :p Oct 19 20:53:22 rwhitby really hates those dead pixels Oct 19 20:53:22 replace it with OpenMoko!!! Oct 19 20:53:28 Android :P Oct 19 20:53:31 bpadalino|work: *everyone* hates dead pixels Oct 19 20:53:39 ewwwww Oct 19 20:53:47 bah. I already have one java-based bloated somethingorother with webos Oct 19 20:53:50 eh, i don't mind if they're out of the main viewing area Oct 19 20:54:05 Android is the new WinMob Oct 19 20:54:09 there, I said it Oct 19 20:54:12 HAH Oct 19 20:54:13 lol Oct 19 20:54:14 * freakout runs Oct 19 20:54:21 * hozer hi-5's freakout Oct 19 20:54:41 WinMo was never bad imo... never perfect either Oct 19 20:55:36 DarthPooh, right. Oct 19 20:55:40 are you serious? Oct 19 20:55:43 (Android still hasn't taken that place yet. Development on WinMo is still 10x better) Oct 19 20:55:49 winmo was SO HORRIBLE Oct 19 20:55:51 Treo 850 got close for me... Oct 19 20:55:54 The issue for me was always you got this beautiful hardware, with software that just wasn't up to scratch Oct 19 20:55:58 i finally decided to boycott all microsoft operating systems Oct 19 20:56:03 from all bare metal i own and operate Oct 19 20:56:13 And Android is living up to that again - look at Droid. Amazing specs, but an OS designed by engineers Oct 19 20:56:21 my winmo phone the HTC touch Oct 19 20:56:27 was the worst phone i ever owned Oct 19 20:56:47 well, because the hardware on that phone sucked Oct 19 20:56:54 lol Oct 19 20:56:54 worse than my original motorola startac Oct 19 20:57:03 Palm WinMo phones (sans 800w) were pretty good man Oct 19 20:57:15 700wx and 850 were solid phones Oct 19 20:57:16 i dunno i had more problems with the OS than the hardware Oct 19 20:57:17 sans 500 also Oct 19 20:57:20 HTC has had a past of putting horrible hardware and over doing the software side. Oct 19 20:57:23 it was definitely like pulling teeth slow Oct 19 20:57:25 but Oct 19 20:57:27 the OS crashing Oct 19 20:57:28 hanging Oct 19 20:57:31 http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9528/palm-treo-500v-review/ Oct 19 20:57:32 apps disappearing Oct 19 20:57:34 To quote myself Oct 19 20:57:37 the 500 was only palm by name, rebranded htc crap Oct 19 20:57:38 magically deleting all my text messages Oct 19 20:57:41 can somebody help me! Oct 19 20:57:43 The Treo 500v is *soulless* Oct 19 20:57:44 all sorts of problems with winmo Oct 19 20:58:02 that was an HTC problem loot, not a winmo Oct 19 20:58:15 the OS crashing is HTCs fault? Oct 19 20:58:16 hows that? Oct 19 20:58:17 besides, Palm always tweaked the OS under the hood, never really over it Oct 19 20:58:26 that sounds awful zealous sir Oct 19 20:58:30 HTC put on touchflo Oct 19 20:58:32 DarthPooh: yep ('bout rebranded crap) Oct 19 20:58:34 so? Oct 19 20:58:40 loot-: HTC redoes winmo almost completely. Oct 19 20:58:47 touchflo 1 = crap Oct 19 20:58:54 lead to all sorts of problems Oct 19 20:59:05 so you're telling me Oct 19 20:59:06 touchflo Oct 19 20:59:11 which had nothing to do with text messages Oct 19 20:59:21 was responsible for causing my phone to delete all my texts Oct 19 20:59:24 actually, touchflo did hook into text msgs Oct 19 20:59:25 and randomly freezing up Oct 19 20:59:44 like i said that sounds awful zealous Oct 19 20:59:50 you might not know enough about system hooks, so this might be a conversation held in vein Oct 19 20:59:52 ive used someones samsung winmo Oct 19 20:59:55 WinMo seems sorta the average ... Never really great, never really horrible Oct 19 20:59:58 and his phone does a lot of the same things Oct 19 21:00:00 how can I install audio/video attachments? Oct 19 21:00:02 randomly crashes Oct 19 21:00:02 Android seems to be goign the same way Oct 19 21:00:03 hangs Oct 19 21:00:05 etc Oct 19 21:00:43 samsung cant make a winmo phone to save their lives... go pick up a touch pro 2 and you'll see how far HTC has come in terms of touchflo Oct 19 21:01:24 everyone wants to dress up winmo, while palm (in the past) reworked the ROM Oct 19 21:01:46 * hozer just wants a usable phone with a standard contacts database, with X11 something that's the equivalent of the Ratpoinson window manager Oct 19 21:01:56 arg, I can't type Oct 19 21:02:51 why cant you just call it like it is Oct 19 21:02:51 but rat poision is so blah... you dont want PRETTY? ;) Oct 19 21:02:53 dude Oct 19 21:02:56 microsoft admits winmo sucks Oct 19 21:03:16 I know how to work winmo... therefore I can't agree wtih that statement Oct 19 21:03:23 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/09/25/151207/Ballmer-Admits-We-Screwed-Up-Windows-Mobile?from=rss Oct 19 21:03:33 haha Oct 19 21:03:34 Of course they do. Oct 19 21:03:43 zealotry Oct 19 21:03:56 loot-: the funny thing is they have the best software side out of all companies. Oct 19 21:04:12 he was bashing the time table for windows mobile 7... Oct 19 21:04:31 DarthPooh: And with good reason. Oct 19 21:04:37 agreed Oct 19 21:04:43 *what* timetable? Oct 19 21:04:50 also agreed ;) Oct 19 21:04:55 lol Oct 19 21:05:02 freakout: Windows 7 is as tight held as blizzard. lol. Oct 19 21:05:10 Windows Mobile 7** Oct 19 21:05:21 its a shame, cause I've seen winmo7 screenies Oct 19 21:05:29 DarthPooh: proper ones? Oct 19 21:05:30 very nice Oct 19 21:05:35 yerp Oct 19 21:05:36 DarthPooh: no one knows if those were real or just skins of 6.5 Oct 19 21:05:40 DarthPooh: i've seen that mockup that was leaked, that was pretty Oct 19 21:05:43 <--- NDA Oct 19 21:05:48 haha Oct 19 21:05:48 see Oct 19 21:05:52 zealotry! Oct 19 21:05:52 DarthPooh: you big tease! Oct 19 21:05:57 yah Oct 19 21:05:58 DarthPooh: email me honey ;) Oct 19 21:06:22 loot- : no conspiracy here Oct 19 21:06:41 * freakout gets ready for work. Oct 19 21:06:43 * freakout crise Oct 19 21:06:47 erm, cries. Oct 19 21:07:14 I kind of want to develop for the new Courier UI more, but it looks like WM7 will be out before then. Oct 19 21:07:58 i would rather gouge my eyeballs out and worship satan (apple) before ever running microsoft windows anything ever again Oct 19 21:08:17 tell us how you really feel about it Oct 19 21:08:21 take 5 minues Oct 19 21:08:23 minutes Oct 19 21:08:27 refocus Oct 19 21:08:31 ;) Oct 19 21:08:36 who needs refocus Oct 19 21:08:43 after over a year of not using windows Oct 19 21:08:44 me Oct 19 21:08:51 i have had no frustrations Oct 19 21:09:00 my OS does what its suppose to when i want it to Oct 19 21:09:05 none of my OS's cause me frustration Oct 19 21:09:10 plain, simple, truthful Oct 19 21:09:15 except for webOS Oct 19 21:09:19 loot-: by chance what distro of linux do you use? Oct 19 21:09:32 haha ok so you're one of those "oh i never have blue screen of death" people Oct 19 21:09:35 who lie through their teeth Oct 19 21:09:37 (doubts that) Oct 19 21:09:48 Templarian: i prefer gentoo Oct 19 21:10:11 but ive been known to use opensuse and sles/sled, ubuntu, debian etc Oct 19 21:10:11 webOS is the only real pain right now. Oct 19 21:10:21 you might not have frustration, but a shit ton of hostility and contempt Oct 19 21:10:28 i dont have trouble with webos at all Oct 19 21:10:31 loot-: I would like to see you try and blue screen 7. Oct 19 21:10:41 before 1.2 update my phone had a 70 day uptime Oct 19 21:10:42 :P Oct 19 21:11:01 webos is freakin slow Oct 19 21:11:03 Templarian: i dont have to try... the drivers will do it for me sooner or later Oct 19 21:11:07 (JS has garbage collection) Oct 19 21:11:07 irql less than zero boom Oct 19 21:11:13 uptime of being a boring fone that you cant customize without resorting to hackery Oct 19 21:11:23 loot-: drivers cannot crash 7, they sit above the kernal. :P Oct 19 21:11:23 but 70 days, good for you! /sarcasim Oct 19 21:11:30 haha Oct 19 21:11:39 if you dont like to hack Oct 19 21:11:41 go use winblows Oct 19 21:11:48 its sheep friendly Oct 19 21:11:52 baaaaaaaaaa Oct 19 21:11:58 * loot- gets the clippers Oct 19 21:11:58 Developer friendly. :) Oct 19 21:12:00 I love my win7 Oct 19 21:12:02 pfft Oct 19 21:12:09 i use to be a game developer Oct 19 21:12:10 i HATE windows Oct 19 21:12:12 especially MFC Oct 19 21:12:14 * Mousey can't figure out whats going on in htere Oct 19 21:12:21 s/ht/h/ Oct 19 21:12:23 Loot is just ranting and raving Oct 19 21:12:26 I heard windows hates you, so its probably ok Oct 19 21:12:27 oh Oct 19 21:12:27 MFC was the most horrible creation ever shoved down the throats of developers ever Oct 19 21:12:32 If you are a game developer you should love windows. They could not make game development any easier. Oct 19 21:12:48 are you freaking kidding me? Oct 19 21:12:55 * loot- rolls eyes Oct 19 21:12:56 He is just mad we all drank the windows kool-aid Oct 19 21:13:09 DarthPooh: but it was good. Oct 19 21:13:12 My kool aid was frozen :( Oct 19 21:13:22 glug glug Oct 19 21:13:23 * rwhitby checks the channel name ... Oct 19 21:13:23 oh lord. Will you people can the windows crap already and tell me where the wiki to build my own kernel for the Pre is ? :P Oct 19 21:13:32 oh btw your cult koolaid wasnt toxic... it just had exlax in it Oct 19 21:13:34 :P Oct 19 21:13:41 rwhitby: good morning sleepy. Oct 19 21:13:42 hozer: custom kernels page, or on the mailing list. Oct 19 21:13:45 Is there a law yet that states any given IRC conversation will eventually lead to a debate about which distro/OS is better? Oct 19 21:13:49 If not, I call it tlp's law. Oct 19 21:13:54 rwhitby: I don't believe in NOT feeding the trolls Oct 19 21:14:40 * Templarian pets troll and hands some food. Oct 19 21:14:46 * DarthPooh lays out corn chips and herring for the troll. Oct 19 21:14:56 * hozer needs to get OpenAFS built for the pre Oct 19 21:15:03 * DarthPooh with some Red Bull and Beef Jerky Oct 19 21:15:07 and then hack up a Debian-ARM AFS Root filesystme! Oct 19 21:15:24 Root filesystem over AFS? On a mobile phone? Oct 19 21:15:32 seems like overkill Oct 19 21:15:34 yes! With disconnected operation! Oct 19 21:15:50 but I suppose that isn't the point ;) Oct 19 21:16:01 well, the theory goes something like this.. Oct 19 21:16:30 When I want to run some random thing from Debian, I'd rather have it installed in my 'cloud hosted' 16GB root filesystem Oct 19 21:16:33 DarthPooh: so are you going to be the one who does the Meta-Doctor run for Dieter? Oct 19 21:16:48 i do all the guinea pig shit for dieter Oct 19 21:16:55 instead of pulling down a package, installing into a chroot, etc Oct 19 21:17:09 okay.. I guess it's really AFS-Chroot in this case Oct 19 21:17:36 so I run 'units' or something like that, and it just pulls down the binaries I actually want to run, and not the docs images, etc Oct 19 21:17:38 hozer: yeah, sounds more like it. Oct 19 21:18:04 and if the caching works right, the AFS cache manager takes care of keeping stuff around locally Oct 19 21:18:08 hozer: how does that run over EVDO? Oct 19 21:18:08 * jbrett can't help chuckling at DarthPooh talking about "guinea pig shit", feels so juvenile ;) Oct 19 21:18:35 jbrett: :D are you snorting too? Oct 19 21:18:44 DarthPooh: ask me after I get it built and I've hung the kernel a couple times when I'm trying to make a phonecall :P Oct 19 21:18:51 heh Oct 19 21:19:30 hozer: sounds interesting... if not overkill still :) Oct 19 21:19:36 DarthPooh: it depends on the RTT and the packet loss.. Oct 19 21:19:37 * jbrett may have tried guinea pig shit once, but never inhaled.. :*[ Oct 19 21:20:05 it's probably overkill ;) Oct 19 21:20:13 I will likely have to find more storage on my server Oct 19 21:20:19 or clean out old videos I don't need Oct 19 21:20:41 although I might have a full openmoko toolchain laying around that would free up quite a bit of space :P Oct 19 21:20:44 hozer: I usually keep a netbook lying around for those types of things (128 gb SSD) Oct 19 21:21:31 hozer: but i am imagining you are trying to travel light Oct 19 21:21:37 heh Oct 19 21:21:55 what I really want is the same damn filesystem on the server, laptop, netbook, phone, etc Oct 19 21:22:14 thats some REAL cloud action right there Oct 19 21:22:43 yeah. *FILESYSTEM*, not some hokey-ass web-based UI attempt at pretending it's a unified namespace Oct 19 21:23:02 lol Oct 19 21:24:01 cloud computing isn't real until you can build a linux kernel on the cloud-hosted filesystem Oct 19 21:24:11 TouchHD is running android 1.6, wow Oct 19 21:24:19 why? Oct 19 21:24:27 i mean, seems like a waste of the hardware Oct 19 21:25:16 nm, porting testing Oct 19 21:25:52 well, if you can survive a linux-kernel build, you can probably survive any sort of possible end-user application Oct 19 21:26:38 not so much that you'd want to do it in practice, but more as a stress test Oct 19 21:26:46 its kind of impressive actually. Boot time on the android is as bad as the Pre tho Oct 19 21:27:06 yeah, what the hell takes so long? Oct 19 21:27:22 it seems the kernel and Novaterm come up pretty quick Oct 19 21:27:34 luna Oct 19 21:27:39 it's awful Oct 19 21:27:52 so this is some big java thing that palm invented, right? Oct 19 21:27:59 so hopefully they are optimizing it Oct 19 21:28:09 maybe Rod knows more about that Oct 19 21:28:34 rwhitby: do you know of any optimization on Palm's part for making the lunasys quicker? Oct 19 21:28:53 other than utilizing the actual GPU in the damn thing! Oct 19 21:29:11 god forbid we actually use the hottest chip on the market to it's fullest Oct 19 21:29:21 heh Oct 19 21:29:35 except you optimize for this GPU, and now you can't port to anything else Oct 19 21:29:57 if GCC could compile object code for the GPU, then it'd work Oct 19 21:30:12 but it's their OS... so they should be able to optimize for any device they create Oct 19 21:30:39 but they dont even know how to optimize the var file directory for apps let alone the GPU Oct 19 21:30:54 ... breath keith.... breath... it'll be ok. Oct 19 21:31:30 whew, almost had me a meltdown there Oct 19 21:31:38 there is something about android... Oct 19 21:31:49 that I like ;) Oct 19 21:32:00 like... settings! Oct 19 21:32:18 (I really hope they are just getting ready to update everything to webkit 4) Oct 19 21:32:27 (for the gpu thing) Oct 19 21:32:28 oh noes! Palmz can haz no settingz! Oct 19 21:33:01 wishful thinking templarian? Oct 19 21:33:03 wow, it's rantfest today Oct 19 21:33:23 nah just when i am around Oct 19 21:33:27 i keep everyone in check Oct 19 21:33:41 making sure its not all unicorn and rainbow love for palm Oct 19 21:36:46 google voice voicemails http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:https://www.google.com/voice/fm/* Oct 19 21:41:54 cute Oct 19 21:42:53 hmagoo: old news it was fixed. Oct 19 21:43:10 good Oct 19 21:44:18 (like a full month ago) Oct 19 21:47:47 Tommorrow 10/20/09 2300UTC there will be an outage for webos-internals.org and preware.org as we install an extra 16GB of memory. Oct 19 21:49:03 * rwhitby bbl Oct 19 21:54:12 php by day, webos JS by night. does that make me some kinda superhero? ;) Oct 19 21:58:36 rwhitby GOODY!!!! More ram -- good idea!!! Oct 19 22:01:37 Question: what is keeping us from writing Java apps on the Pre if (most) services are already Java? Oct 19 22:01:39 Lack of access to a UI toolkit? Oct 19 22:01:59 elight two things: Oct 19 22:02:16 1) if you want to have your app in the app catalog, you can't do that because Palm says you can't. Oct 19 22:03:26 2) if you want to have your app display output and accept input through the webOS user interface, you have to write a java service that will run behind the mojo API -- or you have tofigure out how to do an embedded java applet in mojo which does not currently ACCEPT java applets, thus requiring a patch to mojo. Oct 19 22:03:42 (1) this doesn't prevent us from *selling* such apps though -- just from getting them in the app catalog. Oct 19 22:03:57 correct. Oct 19 22:03:58 (2) fuck me Oct 19 22:04:30 Frankly, it KILLS me that we have a JVM but can't write apps using all of the awesome JVM languages out there (I hate Pure Java -- it makes me sad) Oct 19 22:04:30 elight preware has java services Terminal has java and C Oct 19 22:05:01 you can write jvm all day long. but you'll have to run it through the mojo API. Oct 19 22:05:12 Right... Oct 19 22:05:13 think client-server. Oct 19 22:05:17 Sure Oct 19 22:05:34 but your customers will have to have webos-quick-install. :-) Oct 19 22:05:41 or preware Oct 19 22:05:51 if you set up your own ipk feed, which you can do Oct 19 22:06:08 And we can't legally redistribute webos-quick-install, can we? Oct 19 22:06:24 And the phone would have to be in dev mode? Oct 19 22:06:50 who wrote quickinstall anyway? Oct 19 22:06:55 Preware's the way to go ;) Oct 19 22:07:00 Jason Oct 19 22:07:15 sure you can. Oct 19 22:07:29 but webos-quick-install is depended on having the Doctor. Oct 19 22:07:33 which is a huge download Oct 19 22:07:43 there IS the preware self installer. Oct 19 22:07:50 mmhmm, which works well Oct 19 22:08:00 tested it with some know-nothings and they all managed to use it Oct 19 22:08:06 heh Oct 19 22:08:07 Also, I don't see how you could use a Mojo front end with a Java back end. Wouldn't it be an HTML-JS app that may (or may not) be styled to use Mojo with network calls to an HTTP server runnign on a JVM on localhost? Oct 19 22:08:09 * dBsooner growls. Oct 19 22:08:16 rwhitby: ping please.. :( Oct 19 22:08:45 elight - no Oct 19 22:08:58 just thinking and brainstorming aloud. I'm still newish to the Pre (not to webdev) Oct 19 22:08:59 ... hrrm Oct 19 22:09:23 elight you can write your business model in java, and use luna-send calls to send data to and from it, to invoke classes and cause it to do things. Oct 19 22:09:41 at neat trick would be putting the WebOS doctor/Novaterm/auto-preware-install on an OpenMoko Freerunner Oct 19 22:09:45 the java app doesn't -have- a UI. Mojo is the UI, the java app has an api..... Oct 19 22:09:49 Rick_work: you know much about openwrt/dd-wrt/etc? Oct 19 22:09:59 and then you just plug the freerunning into the pre and it goes and sets everything up :P Oct 19 22:10:02 Rick_work: understood Oct 19 22:10:04 dBsooner nothing at all Oct 19 22:10:08 err, freerunner. Oct 19 22:10:13 Rick_work: I love honesty. :D Oct 19 22:10:18 The Java "app" would really be "services" invoked through the Mojo API then? Oct 19 22:10:34 Which still would mean having to write a lot of, frankly, bizarre Mojo JS to write the app. Oct 19 22:11:40 * freakout wonders if the WinMob flames have died down yet... Oct 19 22:11:45 The *one* thing that Android has going for it is a (mostly) fully functonal JVM to build atop of. Although a Dalvik bug still prevents JVM languages from working there. Oct 19 22:12:10 elight expect a binary sdk from palm sometime next year. Oct 19 22:12:21 Correction: JVM languages that need to perform reflection, that is. Oct 19 22:12:33 Rick_work: Is that a guess or based on some insider knowledge? Oct 19 22:13:11 Technically, there already is a binary SDK Oct 19 22:13:15 it's called "Linux" :p Oct 19 22:13:44 freakout: Sure. Just roll your own framework top to bottom. Be my guest. ;-) Oct 19 22:13:49 lol Oct 19 22:14:02 Just port python-TK to Mojo and I'll be happy :P Oct 19 22:14:25 F that. Get Jython and other JVM languages working. Oct 19 22:14:43 Especially with a JVM already on board! Oct 19 22:15:10 how's jython get to the display? Oct 19 22:15:19 elight - Dion and Ben are -very- involved in webGL. they are very pro webkit 4 Oct 19 22:15:35 We know that a fully functional flash is coming to the Pre in the next 60 days. Oct 19 22:15:40 hozer: I did it in Java Swing 10 years ago. Take your pick of GUI toolkits. Oct 19 22:15:53 True. I have a lot of hope riding on Dion and Ben. Oct 19 22:16:09 we know that Chuq has responded in the developer forums that ports and languages are in process. Oct 19 22:16:17 put all that together and you get binary sdk next year. Oct 19 22:18:05 I'm no whiz when it comes to these things, but wouldnt apps written in some sort of compiled code run faster than apps written in js anyways? Oct 19 22:18:16 Rick_work: "ports and languages"? Oct 19 22:18:26 Support for different languages? But "ports"? Oct 19 22:18:32 personally, I'd rather NOT have flash Oct 19 22:18:34 tcp port access Oct 19 22:18:45 AnOutsider short answer "no not really" Oct 19 22:18:46 oooh Oct 19 22:19:05 javascript is a rightious and rich and expressive language Oct 19 22:19:12 I wonder if that's the XMPP "messaging service" or actual sockets. Oct 19 22:19:23 the V8 javascript interpretor is a VERY VERY highly optimized compiler Oct 19 22:19:36 really Java and C don't run any faster than Javascript does. Oct 19 22:19:53 Rick_work: it's not about speed. It's about inclusion. Oct 19 22:19:59 What is slow isn't the javascript, it's the DOM. It's the browser part that is RENDERING the images. Oct 19 22:20:03 I'm a Rubyist who comes from Java and C land. Oct 19 22:20:25 I'd like more expressive and/or familiar languages. Oct 19 22:20:39 (Nevermind an SDK that doesn't look like a giant law of Demeter violation) Oct 19 22:20:42 which is why webGL is -so- much faster as is "canvas" because it can just draw the damned dots without updating the massive object inheritance tree of the DOM. Oct 19 22:20:53 data movement is what takes time.. and generally lower level language coders tend to be more conscious about data movement Oct 19 22:20:57 thus their code runs faster Oct 19 22:21:29 hozer: Sure but those of us with a system coder background can still write JS -- just not as well as our systems/apps languages of choice. Oct 19 22:21:36 hence why I'd like wider language support Oct 19 22:21:42 Rick_work: does the pre use the v8 interpreter ? Oct 19 22:21:46 JS is pretty good though. Oct 19 22:21:59 hozer, just as a test, we did a full text search mechanism against the text in simple-bible. That is, a moderately well optimized text search mechanism against 5 meg of text data scattered in over 60 files stored in flash. Oct 19 22:22:01 jit... Oct 19 22:22:09 bhuey yes. Oct 19 22:22:15 ok, good, didn't know that Oct 19 22:22:23 Rick_work: do you work for Palm Oct 19 22:22:24 ? Oct 19 22:22:27 hozer that search ran in under 300 ms. Oct 19 22:22:34 bhuey GOD NO !!!!! Oct 19 22:22:34 Rick_work: NICE! Oct 19 22:22:39 ok Oct 19 22:22:46 but let me guess, updating a DOM would take seconds :P Oct 19 22:23:01 yeah, I'm pretty impressed with the web os system, it seems much better than the current andriod releases Oct 19 22:23:06 the search in simple-big-book against the 170 K full text image runs in under 100 ms. Oct 19 22:23:11 javascript is FAST Oct 19 22:23:29 Ok, why is the dailer app so laggy and crappy ? Oct 19 22:23:32 Rick_work: not asserting that it's slow. Again, it's a matter of language of preference -- not necessarily performance. Oct 19 22:23:40 Hell, Ruby (JRuby) is FAR slower than JS Oct 19 22:23:42 not because of the JS engine I would think Oct 19 22:23:44 that's the db that's fast Oct 19 22:23:44 right understood elight Oct 19 22:23:53 but for some apps, I woudl still use it because I can code in Ruby wicked fast compared to JS. Oct 19 22:23:55 sqlite Oct 19 22:23:58 * bhuey hates the dialer app Oct 19 22:23:59 the dialer app is laggy and slow because it's poorly written. Oct 19 22:24:12 when are we going to see a replacement ? Oct 19 22:24:13 Rick_work: my guess is the javascript compiler can optimze the memory lookups Oct 19 22:24:16 Although Prototype approximates Ruby (intentionally) in many ways -- but sucks in others. Oct 19 22:24:17 any word on that ? Oct 19 22:24:20 Robi_ what DB Oct 19 22:24:45 I hate the UI on it Oct 19 22:24:49 bhuey there are only so many hours in the day and so many coders. Oct 19 22:24:49 and the pauses Oct 19 22:25:04 I was thinking about working on it myself, but I'm doing other stuff Oct 19 22:25:05 bhuey pullthe js code out and rewrite it then. Oct 19 22:25:17 I have yet to see the sources for it yet Oct 19 22:25:17 and that sir, states the problem as well as it can be stated. Oct 19 22:25:41 heh.. so there's a lot of headroom for performance improvement in future software then, I take it? Oct 19 22:25:47 bhuey: you can get to it from novaterm Oct 19 22:25:49 yeah, it's actually one of the first things that I want to *fix* on the system, I'm happy with it otherwise Oct 19 22:25:53 in the simulator or on the device Oct 19 22:26:04 elight: my device is rooted properly Oct 19 22:26:12 I can just log into it, no problem Oct 19 22:26:33 personally, i hate that the wifi interferes MASSIVELY with my Sprint signal. Seems to be a hardware design problem... Oct 19 22:26:36 haven't done anything since the 1.2.1 upgrade though Oct 19 22:26:39 oh, has anyone noticed running novaterm making the phone laggy? Or am I just imagining things Oct 19 22:27:52 Ah, this post says a LOT: http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2296&p=8279#p8279 Oct 19 22:31:48 destinal: ping Oct 19 22:34:17 dBsooner: pong Oct 19 22:34:31 I am going to pm you since it is off topic. :D Oct 19 22:35:12 Woohoo! I made it on to Engadget! :D Oct 19 22:35:20 http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/19/unofficial-patch-lets-you-hang-up-palm-pre-calls-by-closing-the/#comments Oct 19 22:35:38 Wow... Oct 19 22:35:45 LOL Oct 19 22:35:48 Slow day in electronics? :p Jk good job Oct 19 22:35:50 Do they mention Preware? Oct 19 22:36:11 dBsooner, sorry :( Oct 19 22:36:20 hey, so how do I install this patch? preware? Oct 19 22:36:27 LOL.. Figures. We get no love. Oct 19 22:36:30 Good job though! Oct 19 22:36:39 Thanks! Oct 19 22:36:58 See what i meant about building the brand? :D Oct 19 22:37:04 Hozer: Yes or QI Oct 19 22:37:34 ... updating feeds ... ;) Oct 19 22:38:01 Oh, has anyone distributed a kernel module with preware? I would like to try to get openafs.ko built against the stock pre kernel Oct 19 22:38:10 haha, can I get this in my iPhone? no, you just wait for AT&T to drop your call Oct 19 22:38:27 "AT&T has 3G!? When are they gonna start rolling it out?" Oct 19 22:38:30 Haha Oct 19 22:39:11 samk1: You could be nice and mention Preware in the notes.. And possible webOS-Patches . ? xD Oct 19 22:39:51 I'll mention it wherever you'd like. What notes? Oct 19 22:39:53 jeeebus, can't y'all put a progress indicator in the preware update? ;) Oct 19 22:40:21 I mean comments on the engadget page.. but it's all ok. Oct 19 22:40:28 We get enough credit the way it is. Kinda. Oct 19 22:41:01 Ah. No prob. Will do. Oct 19 22:41:51 Oh wait, The "Preware" name is right at the top of the screenshot on Engadget. Oct 19 22:43:54 in the show heroes, the guy closed the slider to hang up the phone... that episode aired like 2 weeks ago. :P Oct 19 22:44:10 lol Oct 19 22:44:13 haha^ Oct 19 22:44:20 that may have originated the patch! Oct 19 22:44:28 although KeyToss would have had to endure another shitty episode of Heroes Oct 19 22:44:34 Hozer, what do you mean a progress indicator? Do you mean when you are updating the feeds for Preware? Oct 19 22:44:42 I commented on it here about how much of a lie that was. And now, not so much a lie :P Oct 19 22:45:31 I haven't checked out the patch yet, but does that patch provide it as a user option or just hard patched right in? Oct 19 22:45:46 Hard patched I believe Oct 19 22:47:10 Abyssul: yes, I'm sitting here in the preware 'update feeds' card, and it's just got a round spinny circle that's been going for the last, oh, say 10 minutes Oct 19 22:47:25 May I suggest adding an on/off option in the preferences Oct 19 22:48:50 egaudet, So far I still have never done any new UI on the Pre... but I'll look into that. Oct 19 22:49:20 egaudet: well, Hiro can travel time, so he may have gotten the patch from the future Oct 19 22:49:41 not a biggie, I just wish that most patches would be made in such a way that we could turn things on/off as a preference. Oct 19 22:50:09 destinal, that is the only logical explanation :) Oct 19 22:50:17 Yeah, I just don't know how yet. :P Oct 19 22:51:49 you could probably copy whatever else is in the phone preferences as like a toggle button or whatever for the UI aspect. But yea I'm not a mojo expert either Oct 19 22:52:16 oh, so here's a question... can you make it answer calls if you open it too? Oct 19 22:52:37 It already does that Oct 19 22:52:56 oh, so it'll auto-answer if I open the case? Oct 19 22:53:04 Open the phone, yes Oct 19 22:53:12 so, where's that documented? Oct 19 22:53:23 there's all this stuff that's sorta nebulously documented ;) Oct 19 22:53:56 Yep just tested it Oct 19 22:54:15 Also Hozer, Preware does have a progress bar when updating feeds Oct 19 22:54:20 Make sure you have the latest version Oct 19 22:54:41 hrrrm Oct 19 22:54:54 I just installed it last night :P Oct 19 22:55:01 using the command line method Oct 19 22:55:02 is the patch 1.1.3 compatible? :p Oct 19 22:55:29 Idk, it might Oct 19 22:55:32 Only one way to find out Oct 19 22:56:41 heh.. preware 0.9.4 Oct 19 22:57:49 Are you talking about the close slider to end call patch? Oct 19 22:58:00 I'm also not seeing anything on the 'installed feeds' page Oct 19 22:58:39 Rick_work: the RAM upgrade for the server has been paid for by the gracious donations of the webos-internals community. Oct 19 22:59:41 dBsooner: what's up? Oct 19 22:59:42 samk1: congrats ont he engadget mention Oct 19 22:59:52 Its about wrt stuff Oct 19 22:59:56 I just tried it on my 1.1.3 phone. It installs fine but it doesn't seem to work. My dialer looses it's gui when I use it and only the green background stays. Oct 19 22:59:58 want me to pm you? Oct 19 23:00:06 AnOutsider, Thanks! :) Oct 19 23:00:24 I installed it earlier and hung up on few peopel for the fuck of it Oct 19 23:00:25 hozer: gta02 in host mode would make a nice start to SkyNet flashing Pre's ... Oct 19 23:00:32 a feature I really wish were there from the beginning Oct 19 23:00:46 lol Oct 19 23:00:51 dBsooner: have you asked in #openwrt first? Oct 19 23:01:09 they aren't answering me at all Oct 19 23:01:17 oh openwrt... not dd-wrt. :D Oct 19 23:01:29 I just figured you were a resident expert on the matter. Oct 19 23:01:36 rwhitby: ;) .. skynet? as in Terminator skynet reference? Oct 19 23:01:49 You could always try to manually patch the "close slider to end call" option Oct 19 23:01:55 Google is Skynet Oct 19 23:03:05 heheheh, then maybe OpenMoko is the UnSkynet Oct 19 23:03:46 * hozer imagines a bunch of techo-anarchists running around flashing Pre's & Droid phones Oct 19 23:07:15 hrrm Oct 19 23:07:21 my preware is stuck at 'checking version' Oct 19 23:07:35 where might I find the logs on what the hell it thinks its doing? Oct 19 23:16:28 can't get webOS quick install to recognize that my device is connected Oct 19 23:16:39 anyone have an idea? Oct 19 23:16:47 Is it in dev mode? Oct 19 23:16:49 restarted reconnected it multiple times Oct 19 23:16:55 ill check Oct 19 23:17:31 Hozer, is Preware still not working for you? Oct 19 23:17:35 that'd do it Oct 19 23:17:37 i guess Oct 19 23:17:47 it only recognizes if dev mode is active/ Oct 19 23:19:33 Exactly AZero Oct 19 23:24:41 ty Oct 19 23:24:45 PAYPAL BANK TRANSFER COMPLETE Oct 19 23:24:48 YAY!!! Oct 19 23:24:52 * freakout orders GSM Pre Oct 19 23:26:18 ....ahem. sorry. Oct 19 23:26:27 Abyssul: let me try again.. was the server being rebooted? Oct 19 23:26:41 ah, there we go, progress bar this time Oct 19 23:33:38 hrrm, I would really like to see verbose text mode output ;) Oct 19 23:33:47 a spinning 'install' makes me nervous ;) Oct 19 23:37:09 how do I get '|' in terminal? Oct 19 23:44:03 hozer: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Oct 19 23:44:05 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Terminal Oct 19 23:44:10 search.. ;) Oct 19 23:47:27 hrrrm... the 'help' button ought to have a link to that wiki page :P Oct 19 23:51:12 hey funkatron :) Oct 19 23:51:25 nice. Oct 19 23:52:00 aaaaaahhhhh, I have a fully functional mobile SSH client finally Oct 19 23:52:12 w00t :) Oct 19 23:52:26 hrrm.. need 'tab' Oct 19 23:52:27 hello amigo Oct 19 23:53:15 now... I'm debating if I want to turn off ssh or not Oct 19 23:54:38 nah Oct 19 23:54:44 thats all i use Oct 19 23:54:49 xD Oct 19 23:54:55 well, I mean sshd Oct 19 23:55:03 again, that's all I use Oct 19 23:55:07 I ssh to my pre. Oct 19 23:55:10 what's the memory footprint of sshd vs developer mode? Oct 19 23:55:17 openssh, or dropbear? Oct 19 23:55:22 openssh Oct 19 23:55:33 openssh uses more resources than dropbear, but really it's not that bad. Oct 19 23:56:58 does android support SSH this nicely? Oct 20 00:02:38 an option would be cool. Oct 20 00:02:38 hell, we need an on/off application for patches. Oct 20 00:02:38 just a toggle for all of them Oct 20 00:02:38 with a luna restart option at the bottom. Oct 20 00:03:58 why am i getting an error installing battery percent app? Oct 20 00:04:09 says something about the root mode in ipkg log Oct 20 00:17:14 greg_roll: just sent the money for my GSM Pre :) Oct 20 00:19:24 freakout: awesome!!! Oct 20 00:19:35 is app catalog down or is it me? Oct 20 00:19:37 freakout: and now you can have the correct keyboard layout :) Oct 20 00:19:50 greg_roll: just wanted to say thanks for yahoo IM. Oct 20 00:20:11 greg_roll: Yup. all hail the meta-doctor :) Oct 20 00:20:23 greg_roll: kudos Oct 20 00:21:10 hopefully ill have a new version out soon Oct 20 00:22:12 it already does everything i need lol Oct 20 00:22:51 yahoo contacts even work when merged. i guess that is only broken for msn (which i dont use). Oct 20 00:25:30 wh0dat: app catalog workin for me Oct 20 00:25:50 its working now Oct 20 00:26:06 Wish there was an option not to make it merge with contacts Oct 20 00:26:45 yeah, would be great to have more control over what gets automatically added to your contacts Oct 20 00:28:54 hrrm.. is there any password-safe type thing for Pre and Linux? Oct 20 00:30:20 it seems like the ones I've seen so far have been the notoriously insecure 'I'm going to invent a crypt-storage scheme' type ones, where they use blowfish or something Oct 20 00:30:43 and really, I'd like to see one use an arm-binary libgnupg Oct 20 00:39:01 what does 'offline root mode' mean? Oct 20 00:40:05 that you're running the install on a pre Oct 20 00:40:09 and thats it Oct 20 00:41:07 trying to install batter percent and top bar date from Preware Oct 20 00:41:19 keeps giving me the error Oct 20 00:42:28 1/5 hunks failed Oct 20 00:42:41 offline root mode is not an error Oct 20 00:42:41 that is an error Oct 20 00:42:44 are you on a uk pre? Oct 20 00:42:49 hunk 3 failed at 1531 Oct 20 00:42:56 nah Oct 20 00:42:59 sprint Oct 20 00:43:13 errorgenericmethodexception Oct 20 00:43:29 yeah, i don't really know much about patch errors Oct 20 00:43:38 all the other hunks were offset 2 lines Oct 20 00:43:39 but it sounds like you're trying to change a file thats not as the patch expects Oct 20 00:43:43 the ones that worked Oct 20 00:43:48 yea Oct 20 00:43:50 theme Oct 20 00:43:59 sorta Oct 20 00:44:01 its the top bar Oct 20 00:44:09 just trying to add percentage to the battery Oct 20 00:45:41 have a theme installed? Oct 20 00:47:50 no Oct 20 00:47:56 default Oct 20 00:48:05 is there a theme i should install? Oct 20 00:49:40 no Oct 20 00:49:54 webos 1.2.1? Oct 20 00:49:56 yes Oct 20 00:51:55 show actual percent patch installed? Oct 20 00:52:20 something conflicts, either a manual modification or a conflicting patch is installed Oct 20 00:53:14 it has 5 pieces Oct 20 00:53:22 and i guess the 3rd one isn't finding the correct line Oct 20 00:53:59 something else modified something in that file around that hunk Oct 20 00:54:47 for instance the "show actual percentage" and "battery percent and/as icon" patches cannot be installed together Oct 20 01:38:34 I officially hate my routers Oct 20 01:43:38 dBsooner: i have your same provider and i get ~40mbit down Oct 20 01:43:52 but i dont like in oklahoma Oct 20 01:43:55 hehe Oct 20 01:44:01 er Oct 20 01:44:02 live* Oct 20 01:45:11 I get 40mbit down Oct 20 01:45:34 my route never dies Oct 20 01:45:42 I just hate my routers cuz I want to have pptp client on my router, but all of my routers are only 2MB rom space. Oct 20 01:45:47 i'd know too because i run nagios fping'ing external resources Oct 20 01:45:59 ohhh Oct 20 01:46:17 i have 3 router/firewalls right now Oct 20 01:46:23 2 linux boxes and a cisco asa Oct 20 01:47:22 cisco asa is spiffy for hardware vpn client **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 02:59:57 2009