**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 02:59:57 2009
Oct 20 07:18:03 <jauderho> whoa.
Oct 20 07:18:13 <jauderho> LunaSysMgr just crashed for me.
Oct 20 07:18:53 <jauderho> anyone seen this error before? http://webos.pastebin.com/m3b1a1e0
Oct 20 07:22:02 <rwhitby> jauderho: nope
Oct 20 07:22:56 <jauderho> it's a nastly little one. trying to a lunasysmgr start results in the same error. rebooting now to see if that fixes things. noticed that java was chewing up 68% cpu constantly
Oct 20 07:23:05 <jauderho> which is why I tried to restart lunasysmgr
Oct 20 07:24:51 <jauderho> hmm. seems to be better after a restart. strange.
Oct 20 07:45:37 <Mousey> Luna Manager (the app) also has a button for restarting jaba
Oct 20 07:45:43 <Mousey> s/aba/ava/
Oct 20 07:45:43 <infobot> Mousey meant: Luna Manager (the app) also has a button for restarting java
Oct 20 07:46:06 <freakout> i like my java with milk and two sugars
Oct 20 07:50:11 <Mousey> i like my java like i like my women
Oct 20 07:50:15 <Mousey> ground up and boiled
Oct 20 07:50:23 <freakout> lmao
Oct 20 07:50:51 <freakout> Mousey, i thought you were going to bust out a bit of Airplane!/Flying High! there....
Oct 20 07:51:04 <freakout> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDh_gjL586A
Oct 20 07:51:53 <Mousey> lawl
Oct 20 07:51:54 <oc80z_> whats good
Oct 20 07:52:04 <Mousey> YOU'RE GOOD!
Oct 20 07:52:06 * Mousey points
Oct 20 07:52:08 <oc80z_> i was just talking to jeff hawkins buddy
Oct 20 07:52:12 <freakout> Spaghetti Bolognese, oc80z
Oct 20 07:52:16 <freakout> It's delicious.
Oct 20 07:52:20 <freakout> Wait, what?
Oct 20 07:52:22 <oc80z_> im vegan.
Oct 20 07:52:23 <freakout> Hawkins?
Oct 20 07:53:26 <oc80z_> 'theres still no Undo, is there'
Oct 20 07:54:44 <Mousey> you can't spell undo without AWESOME!
Oct 20 07:54:56 * freakout blinks
Oct 20 07:55:00 * freakout reads again
Oct 20 07:55:20 * freakout dies a little inside and walks away
Oct 20 08:03:49 <Mousey> and with that...
Oct 20 08:20:56 <oc80z_> woopty woop
Oct 20 08:25:51 <melee> anyone here?
Oct 20 08:57:42 <freakout> oil, ping
Oct 20 09:04:06 <Deeps> hey, just heard about the appspace limit issue caused by /var being a small partition
Oct 20 09:04:33 <Deeps> seeing various guides involving making random links for apps to /media, or replacing the paritions with lvm volumes
Oct 20 09:05:11 <Deeps> why cant you just symlink /var to /media/internal/.var/ ?
Oct 20 09:18:40 <oc80z_> that was the workaround.
Oct 20 09:19:49 <oc80z_> funny that the 'close slider to end calls' is not working.
Oct 20 09:22:33 <Deeps> well, the workaround looks more like a big script that creates separate links on a per-app baiss
Oct 20 09:22:51 <oc80z_> ah, there we go, had to throw on a few more deps.
Oct 20 09:23:14 <oc80z_> yeah i think that was teh work around ever since.
Oct 20 09:23:30 <Deeps> i'm guessing you dont know the reasoning behind that decision then
Oct 20 09:23:47 <Deeps> so back to my original question, why not just symlink /var to /media/internal/.var/?
Oct 20 09:23:56 <oc80z_> purhaps the difference is between a rooted and non rooted pre.
Oct 20 09:32:13 <oc80z_> its not going to work like that.
Oct 20 09:38:24 <oc80z_> you know why right
Oct 20 09:41:07 <oc80z_> *yawn*
Oct 20 09:41:29 <oc80z_> almost out of work
Oct 20 09:47:02 <oc80z_> hey'd i tell you i met a devhead for handspring
Oct 20 09:47:08 <oc80z_> from*
Oct 20 09:47:45 <oc80z_> he was so harping webos had no Undo
Oct 20 09:48:22 <oc80z_> in text... and in contacts phone nunbers.. etc..
Oct 20 09:49:05 <tmzt> it has html based widgets
Oct 20 09:49:13 <tmzt> maybe too light for undo?
Oct 20 09:49:16 <oc80z_> deeps, are you going to ln ur var to mediainternal/var
Oct 20 09:49:32 <tmzt> doesn't use existing toolkit
Oct 20 09:49:34 <oc80z_> he said somthing along the lines of that tmzt
Oct 20 09:49:46 <Deeps> oc80z_: i'm not doing anything, i'm just asking questions looking for information
Oct 20 09:49:53 <tmzt> no shortcuts on the recognizer area?
Oct 20 09:50:13 <tmzt> shortcut cxvzy
Oct 20 09:50:16 <tmzt> I mean
Oct 20 09:50:18 <oc80z_> Deeps: check the format of the partitions.
Oct 20 09:50:34 <oc80z_> that works
Oct 20 09:50:43 <oc80z_> thats how i cut/paste and select.
Oct 20 09:50:51 <tmzt> ah good
Oct 20 09:50:57 <Deeps> oc80z_: i cant, i dont have a pre yet
Oct 20 09:52:04 <oc80z_> deeps: oohh yeah /var has binarys on it too, it wouldnt work well on a FAT32 mount.
Oct 20 09:52:17 <tmzt> loop
Oct 20 09:52:25 <tmzt> well
Oct 20 09:52:43 <tmzt> wasn't this all figured out months ago?
Oct 20 09:52:45 <Deeps> oc80z_: i've run binaries on fat32 filesystems under linux without issue
Oct 20 09:52:52 <oc80z_> tmzt , if you accidently mess up a contacts phone number and delete or "escape" you made those changes perm./
Oct 20 09:53:56 <oc80z_> Deeps: but its a critical part of webos(internals)
Oct 20 09:54:25 <oc80z_> i am all against putting /var/ on media/internal.
Oct 20 09:55:17 <oc80z_> mvapps however is tight.
Oct 20 09:55:25 <Deeps> oc80z_: i'm aware it's a very important part of a linux system, i'm looking for specifics, it's okay if you dont know, i can idle until someone who does shows up :)
Oct 20 09:55:42 <oc80z_> its a great backend for whats coming.
Oct 20 09:56:04 <tmzt> oc80z_: I see
Oct 20 09:57:06 <tmzt> Deeps: there's a check for the amount of space
Oct 20 09:57:32 <oc80z_> /dev/mapper/store-var 253920     87784    166136  35% /var
Oct 20 09:57:36 <tmzt> it's very confusing, rwhitby has done a lot of research on it but there's no easy way to solve it
Oct 20 09:57:53 <oc80z_> FreeTim3: mrnn.
Oct 20 09:57:55 <Deeps> tmzt: if that's the case, then how can replacing /media/internals and /var with lvm volumes, and then dynamically resizing them, resolve it?
Oct 20 09:57:57 <tmzt> he's working on something though
Oct 20 09:58:29 <tmzt> break the check? I don't know
Oct 20 09:58:29 <Deeps> as i've seen that posted somewhere as a solution to the problem, simply increasing the size of the /var partition
Oct 20 09:58:47 <tmzt> right, that seems to be the approach
Oct 20 09:59:00 <tmzt> but it requires a special procedure
Oct 20 09:59:04 <oc80z_> that would resolve it.
Oct 20 09:59:20 <tmzt> and you still have to keep a lot of /var free
Oct 20 09:59:32 <tmzt> so it's wasted space
Oct 20 09:59:43 <tmzt> please talk to him
Oct 20 10:00:04 <Deeps> having looked at the guide posted by diomark? on precentral forums, all he's done is resize the parittion sizes, not modified any checks
Oct 20 10:00:07 <oc80z_> heh
Oct 20 10:00:14 <Deeps> heh, that does seem like the best idea, i'll idle til he shows :)
Oct 20 10:00:22 <oc80z_> overkill
Oct 20 10:01:30 <oc80z_> takes too much
Oct 20 10:02:16 <Deeps> ah, reading on that forum posts has some stuff from rwhitby, shoulda just read on
Oct 20 10:02:27 <oc80z_> mvapp is the most logical way to go about it.
Oct 20 10:03:35 <oc80z_> ur not going to mess with ext /var/ /opt
Oct 20 10:03:52 <Deeps> nm, read the thread, got what i was looking for, ta tmzt, oc80z_
Oct 20 10:04:37 <oc80z_> ..and?
Oct 20 10:05:04 <Deeps> if you're interested, it's because some (advanced) homebrew apps require features of ext3 that aren't present in vfat, specifically symlinks
Oct 20 10:05:43 <oc80z_> gee, i wonder if /opt and /var will work on fat32
Oct 20 10:05:57 <oc80z_> cause you see to do it all the time so it muzt wrk
Oct 20 10:06:11 <oc80z_> are you running Linux95?
Oct 20 10:06:17 <tmzt> ?
Oct 20 10:06:18 <Deeps> as such, you have to symlink each app individually to a store within /media/internals, if, and only if, you use these (Advanced) homebrew apps
Oct 20 10:06:48 <tmzt> oc80z_: libraries need symlinks
Oct 20 10:06:58 <einalex> I'd like my pre to show available ad-hoc networks as well..
Oct 20 10:06:59 <tmzt> or you have to install multiple copies
Oct 20 10:07:05 <einalex> any idea on how to do that?
Oct 20 10:07:13 <tmzt> if they beacon
Oct 20 10:07:19 <tmzt> maybe
Oct 20 10:07:20 <oc80z_> yeah
Oct 20 10:07:24 <Deeps> alternatively you could just replace /media/internals with a symlink to somewhere on /var, and have /var use up all your space, but that'd cause problems for windows users
Oct 20 10:07:32 <oc80z_> well, the script is the easy part
Oct 20 10:07:40 <Deeps> eitherway, i got the information i was after, so thanks guys :)
Oct 20 10:07:56 <oc80z_> deeps: get your self a palm pre.
Oct 20 10:08:16 <Deeps> oc80z_: i wanna, but it's prohibitively expensive in europe still, unless you get one with a QWERTZ keyboard
Oct 20 10:08:21 <Deeps> well, in the uk at least
Oct 20 10:08:28 <Deeps> ~£800 over 2 years
Oct 20 10:08:38 <Deeps> with a poor plan too
Oct 20 10:08:51 <oc80z_> yeah the keymappings are the least of the problems.
Oct 20 10:08:53 <Deeps> or £800 over 18 months with a worse plan
Oct 20 10:09:03 <oc80z_> 800 eu too
Oct 20 10:09:13 <Deeps> i'd get one sim free from germany if it wasn't for the keyboard
Oct 20 10:09:29 <oc80z_> the keyboard mapping shouldnt be an issue imo
Oct 20 10:09:32 <tmzt> that's being worked on
Oct 20 10:09:43 <einalex> tmzt: yes, they beacon...but i think they somehow get filtered before teh gui shows the networks..
Oct 20 10:09:45 <Deeps> invovles hardmodding the keyboard to fix what you're looking at at the very minimum
Oct 20 10:09:50 <tmzt> it's a token in the first partition of the sd
Oct 20 10:09:54 <Deeps> which is beyond what i'm willing to do personally
Oct 20 10:09:59 <oc80z_> welll deeps
Oct 20 10:10:00 <oc80z_> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Solution_to_App_Catalog_Installation_Limit
Oct 20 10:10:00 <tmzt> no
Oct 20 10:10:14 <oc80z_> look under : Proposal to Dev Community
Oct 20 10:10:26 <tmzt> einalex: maybe it's javascript then
Oct 20 10:11:12 <tmzt> we should look at replacing the palm service with connman at some point
Oct 20 10:11:13 <Deeps> oc80z_: yep
Oct 20 10:11:42 <einalex> tmzt: yes, i thought so. where would i look? any idea?
Oct 20 10:11:43 <tmzt> and get libertas driver working
Oct 20 10:11:58 <oc80z_> morning einalex
Oct 20 10:11:58 <tmzt> I don't do patching stuf
Oct 20 10:12:07 <einalex> hi oc80z_
Oct 20 10:12:28 <oc80z_> Deeps: its really a hard mod.
Oct 20 10:12:28 <tmzt> future upgrades or maybe current might break adhoc though
Oct 20 10:12:39 <tmzt> oc80z_: it's not
Oct 20 10:12:49 <tmzt> if rwhitby is right
Oct 20 10:12:57 <einalex> well the driver does it...i can enable it via the shell
Oct 20 10:13:03 <Deeps> i'm confused, what are you guys talking about now? heh
Oct 20 10:13:13 <oc80z_> no sure, whats the adhoc/wifi topci
Oct 20 10:13:19 <einalex> but thats somehow inconvenient ;)
Oct 20 10:13:56 <Deeps> i was talking about hardmodding the keyboard to be (visibly) QWERTY again, i'm sure the softmods to adjust the software keyboard layout aren't overly complex
Oct 20 10:14:06 <einalex> the wifi/adhoc topic is: how to get the wifi-network-list to show ad-hoc networks
Oct 20 10:17:04 <tmzt> einalex: look at the javascript and find out where it request the list from
Oct 20 10:17:05 <einalex> oh i might be getting somewhere :)
Oct 20 10:17:14 <einalex> atleast a little bit nearer to the interesting files
Oct 20 10:17:20 <tmzt> if the filtering is there your good
Oct 20 10:17:23 <einalex> tmzt: working on that now
Oct 20 10:17:46 <tmzt> if not you might need a service
Oct 20 10:18:21 <oc80z_> oh
Oct 20 10:18:24 <oc80z_> you can do it
Oct 20 10:18:36 <oc80z_> from terminal *shrug*
Oct 20 10:19:13 <einalex> yes you can. but i'd rather click a button than hit around 50 keys on the pre
Oct 20 10:21:42 <einalex> http://pastebin.com/d2fb7f587
Oct 20 10:21:52 <einalex> how about that?
Oct 20 10:22:19 <einalex> from /usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/models/WifiService.js
Oct 20 10:23:20 <oc80z_> chea?
Oct 20 10:24:15 <oc80z_> what about connecting?
Oct 20 10:24:33 <einalex> conencting is in there too
Oct 20 10:24:42 <einalex> (in the file, not the paste)
Oct 20 10:26:07 <oc80z_> right
Oct 20 10:26:20 <einalex> i found the html as well
Oct 20 10:26:32 <oc80z_> is there a /usr/sbin/wifidriver required?
Oct 20 10:26:36 <rwhitby> Deeps: can't move the whole of /var cause /media/internal is vfat.
Oct 20 10:26:54 <Deeps> rwhitby: lol, yes, thats what oc80z_ said
Oct 20 10:27:11 <rwhitby> it's symlinks which is the problem, more than binaries.
Oct 20 10:27:19 <Deeps> rwhitby: was thinking more interms of just moving /var/../apps over to /media/.../.apps or whatnot
Oct 20 10:27:30 <oc80z_> this is true?
Oct 20 10:27:34 <Deeps> yeah, i saw your followups on diamark's forum post regarding simply resizing /var
Oct 20 10:27:46 <rwhitby> Deeps: we have advanced homebrew apps that also use symlinks
Oct 20 10:27:46 <oc80z_> einalex:  iwconfig eth0 mode ad-hoc essid palmpre
Oct 20 10:28:00 <Deeps> rwhitby: yep, i saw that on your post
Oct 20 10:28:12 <einalex> oc80z_: yeah so what?
Oct 20 10:28:22 <Deeps> 1105.04 < Deeps> if you're interested, it's because some (advanced) homebrew apps require features of ext3 that aren't present in vfat, specifically symlinks
Oct 20 10:28:39 <einalex> oc80z_: i know i can do it with the shell, i even created a script for that. but i want it in the gui
Oct 20 10:28:46 <oc80z_> einalex: u have to shut down wifi from the gui, in order to enable adhoc, right?
Oct 20 10:28:56 <einalex> yes
Oct 20 10:29:03 <rwhitby> Deeps: the logical layout of the qwertz keyboard has been solved - you just need to repaint the keys
Oct 20 10:29:09 <einalex> otherwise the gui just changes mode back to managed
Oct 20 10:29:18 <Deeps> rwhitby: yep, picked up on that too! :)
Oct 20 10:29:35 <einalex> i guess that's happening because the pre is searching for a network
Oct 20 10:29:45 <rwhitby> I'm personally going to do a Pre transplant from a CDMA Pre keyboard to a GSM Pre.
Oct 20 10:30:15 <Deeps> rwhitby: any ideas what possible issues could come from replacing /media/internals with a symlink to /var, other than breaking support for windows machines?
Oct 20 10:30:24 <oc80z_> werd
Oct 20 10:30:38 <Deeps> i've never dealt with presenting as usb mass storage from a linux machine
Oct 20 10:30:39 <rwhitby> Deeps: some of the three modes that come up when you plug in USB would break.
Oct 20 10:30:57 <Deeps> three modes?
Oct 20 10:31:01 <rwhitby> so fine for an individual to do, but not good for instructions for the general public
Oct 20 10:31:16 <rwhitby> USB Disk and Media Sync
Oct 20 10:31:44 <oc80z_> Deeps: ive also seen WebOS format /media/internal after seeing it was not fat32
Oct 20 10:33:05 <oc80z_> so forget about installing win7 off ntfs in usb mode
Oct 20 10:33:49 <oc80z_> havnt tried fat yet , backtrack workd.
Oct 20 10:34:48 <einalex> ah, found the controller...let's have a look
Oct 20 10:34:52 <oc80z_> einalex: /usr/local/bin/wifi-mfg-labtool
Oct 20 10:35:04 <oc80z_> oh u coding?
Oct 20 10:35:39 <einalex> right now i'm looking at devicemenu-assistant.js
Oct 20 10:36:02 <tmzt> einalex: then you'll probably need a service
Oct 20 10:36:43 <einalex> hm, there is a service..
Oct 20 10:36:54 <einalex> ofcourse..
Oct 20 10:37:10 <einalex> i have to find out where the crucial stuff happens
Oct 20 10:37:51 <tmzt> but that one is closed
Oct 20 10:38:05 <tmzt> and the logic is probably in it
Oct 20 10:38:33 <tmzt> because it's easier then sending wext events as json
Oct 20 10:38:41 <einalex> hm
Oct 20 10:38:55 <einalex> i'm still hoping they call it with paramters
Oct 20 10:38:59 <einalex> (that i can change)
Oct 20 10:41:14 <oc80z_> hmm
Oct 20 10:41:45 <einalex> http://pastebin.com/d39e256f8
Oct 20 10:41:48 <einalex> not good
Oct 20 10:42:02 <einalex> the whole thing is based on access points
Oct 20 10:42:47 <oc80z_> oh hey
Oct 20 10:43:09 <oc80z_> everything i just mentioned is in wiki/ad-hock-networking
Oct 20 10:43:10 <oc80z_> hehe
Oct 20 10:43:36 <einalex> whci wiki?
Oct 20 10:44:04 <rwhitby> probably the one in the /topic ...
Oct 20 10:44:08 <einalex> i can't find the page..
Oct 20 10:44:12 <einalex> pls post a link
Oct 20 10:44:57 <rwhitby> there's a search box on the left side, which found it as the second hit
Oct 20 10:44:57 <einalex> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=ad-hoc&fulltext=Search
Oct 20 10:44:59 <einalex> when i used it, it returned nothing
Oct 20 10:45:09 <rwhitby> try "ad hoc networking"
Oct 20 10:45:29 <einalex> wiki/Ad-Hoc_Networking
Oct 20 10:45:30 <rwhitby> why it doesn't like the hyphen, I don't know.
Oct 20 10:45:41 <einalex> would be the url then..
Oct 20 10:47:46 <oc80z_> mm yea
Oct 20 10:48:20 <oc80z_> rwhitby: is there a OK> prompt you can get to
Oct 20 10:48:24 <oc80z_> to access nvram, prom , w/e
Oct 20 10:49:26 <einalex> Robi_: are you working on the ad-hoc networking thing? if so, i'd like to help. feel fre to msg me or contact me on jabber: einalex@jabber.ccc.de
Oct 20 10:49:59 <oc80z_> i think that post is old.
Oct 20 10:50:19 <oc80z_> hmm
Oct 20 10:54:10 <oc80z_> how long till a mediaplayer comes out.
Oct 20 10:56:34 <oc80z_> or a 'media control point'
Oct 20 10:56:37 <einalex> i guess that's a thing so many people are interested in..
Oct 20 10:56:41 <einalex> it won't take too long
Oct 20 10:57:00 <oc80z_> well
Oct 20 10:57:09 <oc80z_> i hope it will have 'save/cache' features.
Oct 20 10:57:19 <oc80z_> so you can take whatever it is, on the run.
Oct 20 10:58:48 <oc80z_> eg, at home on the LAN, or over OpenVPN, list the movies/music like all uPnP Players do, its just xml.. ushare and mediatomb are great opensource examples... then ah.. have the option to save teh file to mediainternal.. to play it back when on a plane/subway/taxi or stream it
Oct 20 10:59:27 <oc80z_> atleast mp4's , transcoding can be done server end with mediatomb.
Oct 20 10:59:32 <einalex> well
Oct 20 10:59:34 <einalex> i'm out
Oct 20 10:59:36 <einalex> cu later
Oct 20 10:59:39 <oc80z_> shieeeet
Oct 20 10:59:41 <oc80z_> u get my msg?
Oct 20 10:59:48 <einalex> i have a feeling i will be creating a lot of software for the pre ..
Oct 20 11:00:20 <oc80z_> well contact that person i said to contact
Oct 20 11:00:35 <oc80z_> im sure they can collaborate.
Oct 20 11:09:08 <oc80z_> find -name Family.Guy.* -exec ffmpeg -i source.avi -f psp -r 29.97 -b 768k -ar 24000 -ab 64k -s 320×240  '{}' \;
Oct 20 11:09:29 <oc80z_> this should work out
Oct 20 11:46:03 * freakout is on the hunt for some interesting stories to blog about
Oct 20 11:46:09 <freakout> Anybody got anything?
Oct 20 12:15:16 <Thomaschaaf> -.- borked my phone again.. stupid patch didn't work with 1.1.3..
Oct 20 12:15:36 <Thomaschaaf> When calling I don't have a screen anymore just the card..
Oct 20 12:16:03 <Thomaschaaf> an empty card..
Oct 20 12:16:21 <en0x> that sucks
Oct 20 12:16:37 * alphaone is missing his pdf viewer..
Oct 20 12:17:25 <Thomaschaaf> I really want/need webos 1.3
Oct 20 12:17:54 <alphaone> Does webos 1.3 have support for both cdma and gsm?
Oct 20 12:18:00 <alphaone> (as 1.1.2 has)
Oct 20 12:18:24 <rwhitby> 1.3 is not released, so who knows?
Oct 20 12:18:43 <alphaone> Not in the US?
Oct 20 12:18:46 <rwhitby> nope
Oct 20 12:18:50 <rwhitby> 1.2.1 is the latest
Oct 20 12:19:02 <Thomaschaaf> Nope
Oct 20 12:19:04 <Thomaschaaf> germany
Oct 20 12:19:22 <Thomaschaaf> and alot of patches make the phone goo bork
Oct 20 12:19:24 <alphaone> okay, must have misheard then
Oct 20 12:19:35 <rwhitby> there are reports of people running 1.2.1 on gsm pre
Oct 20 12:19:36 <freakout> Thomaschaaf, why not just upgrade to 1.2.1?
Oct 20 12:19:59 <Thomaschaaf>  How to?
Oct 20 12:20:02 <Thomaschaaf> I have GSM
Oct 20 12:20:07 <Thomaschaaf> TEll me how and I will
Oct 20 12:20:24 <en0x> use the webosdoctor
Oct 20 12:20:27 <freakout> well, according to our mega-brain friend rwhitby, the webOS Doctor automatically detects the correct modem firmware no matter which version you flash
Oct 20 12:20:32 <rwhitby> Thomaschaaf: all the doctor images have both CDMA and UMTS firmware
Oct 20 12:20:52 <freakout> Thomaschaaf, so you just need to find a copy of the 1.2.1 doctor.
Oct 20 12:21:08 <freakout> Bell or Sprint, your choice ;)
Oct 20 12:21:10 <Thomaschaaf> rwhitby are you guys sure?
Oct 20 12:21:16 <rwhitby> I have flashed GSM 1.1.3 doctor onto a Sprint CDMA phone, and it correctly flashed the CDMA firmware and ran well.
Oct 20 12:21:19 <rwhitby> However,
Oct 20 12:21:36 <rwhitby> I cannot tell you what will happen when running 1.2.1 on GSM phone, as I have not tested that myself.
Oct 20 12:21:49 <Thomaschaaf> what would be the worst that would happen?
Oct 20 12:21:52 <rwhitby> I *assume* it will work fine, but you need to make your own decision.
Oct 20 12:21:54 * freakout is a gamblin' man, and bets it will work just fine.
Oct 20 12:22:25 <rwhitby> Thomaschaaf: well, the worst that could happen is a completely bricked phone, but that's never happened to anyone yet.
Oct 20 12:22:44 <Thomaschaaf> rwhitby: that would mean it wouldn't boot?
Oct 20 12:22:47 <rwhitby> the likely failure case would be a borked phone, which you then reflash back to 1.1.3 to repair
Oct 20 12:22:58 <rwhitby> bricked means it is unrecoverable by any software means.
Oct 20 12:23:07 <alphaone> Thomaschaaf: I'm running 1.2.1 on a GSM Pre
Oct 20 12:23:24 <en0x> hmm looks liek palm borked the backup software on 1.2.1
Oct 20 12:23:26 <Thomaschaaf> alphaone: what provider?
Oct 20 12:23:34 <rwhitby> there you go - direct confirmation from alphaone
Oct 20 12:23:42 <alphaone> let me double check
Oct 20 12:23:45 <alphaone> But I'm pretty sure
Oct 20 12:24:01 <AnOutsider> morning all
Oct 20 12:24:20 <freakout> morning AnOutsider. How's tricks?
Oct 20 12:24:22 <alphaone> arg
Oct 20 12:24:26 <AnOutsider> tricks?
Oct 20 12:24:27 <alphaone> 1.1.3, 1.2.1, 1.3
Oct 20 12:24:32 <alphaone> Stupid numbers
Oct 20 12:24:35 <AnOutsider> you calling me a pimp?
Oct 20 12:24:40 <freakout> AnOutsider: lol
Oct 20 12:24:48 <freakout> AnOutsider: clearly we have a slang problem
Oct 20 12:25:04 <alphaone> Sorry, 1.1.3 here
Oct 20 12:25:10 <tmzt> alphaone: radio works?
Oct 20 12:25:13 <alphaone> I'm not getting used to these version numbers
Oct 20 12:25:27 <Thomaschaaf> I just want 1.3 already :P
Oct 20 12:25:30 <tmzt> oh
Oct 20 12:25:36 <en0x> next month
Oct 20 12:25:44 <Thomaschaaf> will probably have icq and msn right?
Oct 20 12:25:56 <en0x> hmm
Oct 20 12:26:00 <Thomaschaaf> what do you guys think it will incorperate a lot of patches?
Oct 20 12:26:08 <en0x> my battery on pre dies in 5 hrs
Oct 20 12:26:12 <alphaone> screw that. I need real xmpp
Oct 20 12:26:14 <en0x> when ther is no coverage
Oct 20 12:26:27 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: doubtful on MSN or ICQ - the former they'll be waiting to incorporate properly with Synergy for contacts, and that might be awhile
Oct 20 12:26:37 <freakout> and the latter just isn't popular enough anymore
Oct 20 12:26:39 <rwhitby> I suspect it will have whatever best suits Palm's marketing and revenue generating needs, and have little regard for what anyone in this channel desires.
Oct 20 12:27:03 <en0x> they have their plan
Oct 20 12:27:04 <rwhitby> At least if I was running Palm that's what I would do.
Oct 20 12:27:11 <en0x> dont worry they know what to do imho
Oct 20 12:27:30 <freakout> If I was running Palm, I'd be selling unlocked phones direct.
Oct 20 12:27:39 <en0x> right
Oct 20 12:27:45 <en0x> for 200 bucks
Oct 20 12:27:48 <en0x> not 500
Oct 20 12:27:53 <freakout> en0x: yep ;)
Oct 20 12:28:11 <freakout> although, they must save a bundle on tech support costs by offloading the problems to the carriers
Oct 20 12:28:12 <zomg> in the land of freedom you can't buy a pre w/o contract? =)
Oct 20 12:28:15 <en0x> i wonder when sprint will switch to gsm
Oct 20 12:28:28 <rwhitby> freakout: that's not a winning strategy for the early phase of a new platform in markets where the carriers dominate the sales channels.
Oct 20 12:28:57 <freakout> rwhitby: And that's why I'm *not* running Palm ;)
Oct 20 12:28:59 <rwhitby> Palm has to keep the carriers happy to get the sales channel to get uptake.
Oct 20 12:29:12 <Thomaschaaf> freakout: germany uses mostly icq..
Oct 20 12:29:35 <zomg> Do people anywhere except germany use that? :D
Oct 20 12:29:38 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: then please ignore my culturally-biased perspective ;)
Oct 20 12:29:41 <zomg> It's pretty awful :/
Oct 20 12:30:01 <rwhitby> Thomaschaaf: I bet Harald Welte doesn't use it ;-)
Oct 20 12:30:01 <zomg> I do remember that back in 1996 or something icq was basically the best
Oct 20 12:30:03 <en0x> icq was popular 8 yrs ago
Oct 20 12:30:04 <en0x> ;]
Oct 20 12:30:04 <Thomaschaaf> freakout: yea I have a couple brazillian friends who use ICQ too
Oct 20 12:30:25 <freakout> rwhitby: There's other reasons for Palm to go through carriers too. Subsidies, for instance, so they can get more phones into hands.
Oct 20 12:30:50 <rwhitby> freakout: exactly.
Oct 20 12:30:50 <freakout> rwhitby: They did try selling the Treo Pro unlocked when they couldn't find a carrier partner. Failed pretty miserably
Oct 20 12:30:50 <en0x> in UK they have qwerty keyboard?
Oct 20 12:30:51 <en0x> or qwertz?
Oct 20 12:30:58 <rwhitby> en0x: qwerty, but all locked
Oct 20 12:30:59 <freakout> en0x: QWERTY.
Oct 20 12:31:13 <en0x> ok
Oct 20 12:31:15 <rwhitby> there is no unlocked qwerty gsm version available anywhere in the world
Oct 20 12:31:21 <en0x> wonder how hard it will be to unlock it ;)
Oct 20 12:31:29 <freakout> Which is *bizarre*, IMO.
Oct 20 12:31:30 <rwhitby> (except for my frankenpre in a couple of weeks time)
Oct 20 12:31:36 <freakout> and mine too!
Oct 20 12:31:53 <en0x> hmm i didt take my pre apart
Oct 20 12:31:54 <freakout> See, I understand partnering with the carriers.
Oct 20 12:31:59 <en0x> i wonder if there is room for gsm chip
Oct 20 12:32:00 <rwhitby> freakout: yours won't have a qwerty keyboard, just a fake qwerty keyboard.
Oct 20 12:32:13 <freakout> rwhitby: mine will be hand-painted :o
Oct 20 12:32:23 <rwhitby> I'm going to do a keyboard transplant operation.
Oct 20 12:32:28 <freakout> rwhitby: mine will be a work of *art*
Oct 20 12:32:36 <Thomaschaaf> hmm I will try webos 1.2.1 today..
Oct 20 12:32:38 <rwhitby> mine will be a work of *science*
Oct 20 12:32:43 <freakout> lol
Oct 20 12:32:50 <Thomaschaaf> maybe it will have qwerty keyboard thioughj
Oct 20 12:33:13 <rwhitby> Thomaschaaf: you can change logical keyboard layout today on any Pre on any firmware.
Oct 20 12:33:15 <freakout> rwhitby: Blogger and hacker meet, conflict
Oct 20 12:33:40 <en0x> hmm i wonder if anybody from palm will leak unlock codes for pre
Oct 20 12:33:41 <en0x> :)
Oct 20 12:34:02 <rwhitby> en0x: they are usually imei-specific, aren't they?
Oct 20 12:34:04 <freakout> en0x, a hack will be out within weeks. I'd bet you a kidney
Oct 20 12:34:26 <en0x> lol
Oct 20 12:34:31 <Thomaschaaf> okay so I will see you again later
Oct 20 12:34:33 <en0x> my kidneys are good
Oct 20 12:34:38 * freakout waves to Thomaschaaf 
Oct 20 12:34:40 <freakout> good luck!
Oct 20 12:34:48 <en0x> rwhitby: ok but for example nokia etc have unlock codes
Oct 20 12:34:53 <Thomaschaaf> I will do a report where would I post that?
Oct 20 12:35:01 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: here first
Oct 20 12:35:08 <Thomaschaaf> hehe :D
Oct 20 12:35:20 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: and then I *suppose* you could go to PreCentral.... if you really *must*.... :p
Oct 20 12:35:21 <Thomaschaaf> and after that? webos-internals website?
Oct 20 12:35:26 <Thomaschaaf> hehe
Oct 20 12:35:29 <Thomaschaaf> bye
Oct 20 12:35:34 <rwhitby> Thomaschaaf: webos-internals mailing list
Oct 20 12:35:38 <tmzt> anybody traced the diag program?
Oct 20 12:35:53 <tmzt> I know it's a usb serial port
Oct 20 12:36:33 <tmzt> actually
Oct 20 12:36:33 <tmzt> actually
Oct 20 12:37:04 <tmzt> is modem rset modem pmic power down possible with omap on?
Oct 20 12:37:36 <tmzt> anything in sysfs?
Oct 20 12:37:58 <tmzt> and can anybody supply lsusb -v -v following that
Oct 20 12:45:43 * rwhitby bbt - night all
Oct 20 13:57:10 <AnOutsider> precentral needs a proof-reader ;)
Oct 20 13:57:14 <AnOutsider> "The contacts app is quite good with the Synergy unified contract, Tasks is has seen some minor improvements"
Oct 20 15:01:38 <jettero> mmm moved /opt/ to a 500meg loopback file on /media/internal
Oct 20 15:01:42 <jettero> (still ext3
Oct 20 15:01:43 <jettero> )
Oct 20 15:02:06 <jettero> admit it, you're jealous
Oct 20 15:25:37 <bpadalino|work> did anyone see jwz give up with webOS ?
Oct 20 15:26:13 <gkatsev> he gave up on it?
Oct 20 15:26:39 <hozer> seems like the sign that something is useful when JWZ gives up on it :P
Oct 20 15:26:45 <hozer> got a link?
Oct 20 15:28:01 <bpadalino|work> yeah hold
Oct 20 15:28:21 <bpadalino|work> http://jwz.livejournal.com/1108212.html
Oct 20 15:28:53 <gkatsev> and his theme on livejournal isnt very good...
Oct 20 15:29:12 <gkatsev> ouch. he left the pre for an iphone
Oct 20 15:29:24 <bpadalino|work> yeah, which is surprising given his previous stances
Oct 20 15:30:02 <gkatsev> and he just said apple is worse than palm in terms of dev support
Oct 20 15:30:47 <gkatsev> but i can definitely understand some of his converns. palm really needs to make all apps start up much more snappily
Oct 20 15:31:45 <bpadalino|work> still not sure i can take his previous stances seriously when he abandons all his problems with palm when he picked up an iphone
Oct 20 15:32:26 <bpadalino|work> almost like someone who has been using linux for ages, finally just gets fed up with screwing around with drivers and switches to windows
Oct 20 15:33:15 <bpadalino|work> i think he has a better chance putting more effort into playing with the underlying linux system and getting rid of luna than he does with an iphone
Oct 20 15:35:33 <hozer> bpadalino: see, some of us actually need phones that *work*
Oct 20 15:36:26 <hozer> throwing out luna would mean having to go back to some half-functional openmoko/freesmartphone dialer :P
Oct 20 15:36:49 * hozer is also irritated by a lot of the same things .. slowness, what have you
Oct 20 15:37:30 <bpadalino|work> i think they include oprofile if you want to see what is taking up all the cpu time ...
Oct 20 15:39:17 <gkatsev> wonder why he didnt leave the pre for the hero or something like that
Oct 20 15:39:47 <bpadalino|work> he said android reviews were pretty terrible
Oct 20 15:40:35 <gkatsev> the g1 was bad hardware. the other is supposed to be much much better
Oct 20 15:43:11 <xorg> yo all
Oct 20 15:43:26 <bpadalino|work> arguing with jwz sounds pretty useless anyway ... it's difficult to just even figure out what his mindset is and if he has internal conflicts
Oct 20 15:43:28 <xorg> q on posting tags to repository for 'mvapp'
Oct 20 15:43:54 <xorg> I've setup the tag for PreWare description
Oct 20 15:44:03 <xorg> when doing git push --tags
Oct 20 15:44:16 <xorg> get.. The git:// url is read-only.
Oct 20 15:45:32 <xorg> was able to commit the code just fine, but can't push the tags
Oct 20 16:11:47 <Robi_> einalex: it's already done with the Tether App
Oct 20 16:18:40 <Marajin> allo allo allo
Oct 20 16:19:29 <Marajin> gkatsev: what're you on about? my pre launches apps faster than my ipod touch (2g) does
Oct 20 16:19:58 <Marajin> as for android phones, meh the g1 and g2 and hero are all underwhelming same old schitt with the MSM 7xxx series
Oct 20 16:20:27 <Marajin> from memory the hero has a higher clock but it's still an underperforming chipset from everything I see
Oct 20 16:24:44 <Marajin> gkatsev: if you were complaining about boot time I'd grok as the pre takes like 4-5 times longer than the iphone 3gs to boot but I don't note much lag with launching apps
Oct 20 17:03:17 <Mousey> i need to figure out how to restart Luna from the command line and have it actually stick in my brain
Oct 20 17:03:25 * Mousey feels a shell script coming on
Oct 20 17:03:31 <Mousey> OMGRESTARTLUNA.sh
Oct 20 17:08:09 <FreeTim3> mousey: ya just create a small script file ... i have a file named 'ht' that I keep all my oft-used stuff in... then it's easy to cat ht and cut/paste
Oct 20 17:08:32 <FreeTim3> Not really a script file but just a plain text file with oft-used or useful commands right on my Pre
Oct 20 17:09:44 <Mousey> ah
Oct 20 17:09:45 <Mousey> yah
Oct 20 17:09:55 <Mousey> sometimes i hose it so good tho, all i can do is restart luna
Oct 20 17:11:25 <Mousey> i'd run it right now if i could
Oct 20 17:11:40 <Mousey> 1231 root      19  -1  462m 182m 7964 D  3.0 76.3   2:33.01 LunaSysMgr
Oct 20 17:11:49 <Mousey> 76%! no apps open!
Oct 20 17:11:59 <Mousey> completely unresponsive ;_;
Oct 20 17:12:17 * Mousey kicks ampache mobile in the shins
Oct 20 17:12:26 <gkatsev> Marajin: idk... it takes a few seconds for all my apps to launch and stuff. takes forever for the ui of the phone app to match the actual call status as well. i mean, it is just within bearable for me so im not really complaining, but there is a lot of room for improvement is basically the point.
Oct 20 17:13:07 * Mousey doesn't know where all that came from, but agrees about the phone call->status thing
Oct 20 17:14:15 <Mousey> oh, it just respawns.. that's handy
Oct 20 17:14:17 <gkatsev> Mousey: we are talking about jwz quitting palm/pre/webos for the iphone.
Oct 20 17:14:32 <Mousey> shill
Oct 20 17:14:45 <Mousey> the iphone? not even android?
Oct 20 17:14:49 <Mousey> has to be a check involved
Oct 20 17:15:09 <Mousey> it certainly ain't on technical merit
Oct 20 17:15:17 <Mousey> </rant>
Oct 20 17:15:41 <Mousey> <rant>
Oct 20 17:15:43 <Mousey> not even maemo?!?!
Oct 20 17:15:46 <Mousey> </rant>
Oct 20 17:23:16 <Flashpass> Rick_work: Hey, thanks for the BT recommendation, bought and installed it last night, works awesome and cable free :D
Oct 20 17:23:50 <en0x> i wonder what palm did to piss off the guy who wrote twee
Oct 20 17:23:51 <en0x> :)
Oct 20 17:23:59 <en0x> i know something with the approval or something
Oct 20 17:24:03 <en0x> but what exacly
Oct 20 17:25:45 <Rick_work> Flashpass  good to know.  Mic worked well,   handsfree phone as well as music?
Oct 20 17:26:44 <Rick_work> Mousey  after all the crap he gave palm about their approval process and their lack of openness, to get an Iphone is just -- well,  errr..
Oct 20 17:33:25 <gkatsev> what about twee?
Oct 20 17:33:37 * Mousey struggles with ampache mobile
Oct 20 17:34:57 <egaudet_work> He said the switch to iphone had nothing to do with the development and apple is worse in that regard (lack of openness etc...) but he switched to the iphone because it "just worked", i.e. it's more polished in it's functionality as a smartphone etc...
Oct 20 17:39:51 <FreeTim3> mousey I think all the luna commands known so far are listed on wiki
Oct 20 17:40:36 <Mousey> k
Oct 20 17:40:41 <Mousey> i'm just not rtfming
Oct 20 17:41:44 <FreeTim3> We could add more there, though, if we find any.    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Luna_Send
Oct 20 17:42:43 <Mousey> thanks
Oct 20 17:43:26 <Chais_z3r0> hi thar
Oct 20 17:44:24 <Chais_z3r0> could someone please help me getting the mojo plugin to run with eclipse 3.5.1?
Oct 20 17:48:45 <Chais_z3r0> on osx. forgot to mention that
Oct 20 17:49:46 <Rick_work> Chais_z3r0  almost none of the regulars here use eclipse.  Most of us switched over to Komodo with the webos IDE add on some time ago
Oct 20 17:49:48 <Rick_work> sorry
Oct 20 17:50:13 <Chais_z3r0> well... i'm flexible ^^
Oct 20 17:50:37 <Rick_work> www.templarian.com/komodo
Oct 20 17:50:48 <Chais_z3r0> if you have something better than eclipse i'm listening
Oct 20 17:51:02 <Rick_work> it's better
Oct 20 17:51:03 <Chais_z3r0> 404
Oct 20 17:51:03 <Chais_z3r0> 
Oct 20 17:51:25 <Rick_work> my bad
Oct 20 17:51:36 <Rick_work> that changed to http://webos.templarian.com
Oct 20 17:51:56 <Rick_work> take the komodo link at the top
Oct 20 17:52:31 <Rick_work> works fine in osx
Oct 20 17:56:11 <gkatsev> webos.termplarian.com/komodo
Oct 20 17:56:14 <gkatsev> :)
Oct 20 17:56:21 <gkatsev> crap
Oct 20 17:56:28 <gkatsev> s/term/tem/
Oct 20 17:56:35 <gkatsev> webos.termplarian.com/komodo
Oct 20 17:56:37 <gkatsev> s/term/tem/
Oct 20 17:56:38 <infobot> gkatsev meant: webos.templarian.com/komodo
Oct 20 17:57:58 <Marajin> gkatsev: sorry for the pause, ok, I grant you the UI isn't perfect yet, but hey it's new, things can only get better one hopes :)
Oct 20 17:59:43 <Chais_z3r0> named Add-on 0.4.2b2
Oct 20 17:59:45 <Chais_z3r0> ?
Oct 20 17:59:46 <gkatsev> Marajin: right. i agree. if there was a better phone on sprint, i might have switched to it by now, but there isnt, not really at least. im definitely sticking with sprint for a while now cuz it is one of the cheapest plans i can get and i get great reception here
Oct 20 18:00:26 <Marajin> Rick_work: hypocritical? :p
Oct 20 18:00:46 <Marajin> gkatsev: well I'm ukdian :) but..
Oct 20 18:01:06 <gkatsev> ukdian? lol
Oct 20 18:01:09 <Marajin> Rick_work: ah sorry, that probably seemed random, I didn't realise I'd scrolled back a bit and thought you'd only just said switching to iphone was "a bit ..."
Oct 20 18:01:24 <Marajin> gkatsev: well I'm part irish, scottish, welsh and majoritatively english.. so UKdian ;)
Oct 20 18:01:32 <tmzt> gkatsev: better than?
Oct 20 18:01:37 <gkatsev> lol.
Oct 20 18:01:45 <Marajin> but I've noticed that the US routinely gets gypped on carrier tariffs
Oct 20 18:02:10 <gkatsev> idk, i think sprint is actually one of the better carriers in terms of plans and stuff
Oct 20 18:02:15 <Marajin> I paid like 45 bucks/month for 1200 minutes, 1000 texts, unlimited data, unlimited wifi and 75% off international calling
Oct 20 18:02:19 <Rick_work> Marajin it's interesting that you say that. (gyped)
Oct 20 18:02:25 <gkatsev> tmzt: better than?? the pre is one of the best phones on the sprint network
Oct 20 18:02:38 <Rick_work> Marajin  what carrier?
Oct 20 18:02:42 <tmzt> if there was a better phone on  sprint, i might have switched to it by now
Oct 20 18:02:48 <tmzt> so better than Pre?
Oct 20 18:02:49 <Marajin> Rick_work: o2... pre is o2 exclusive in uk/eu
Oct 20 18:02:54 <tmzt> what would be better than Pre?
Oct 20 18:03:01 <Deeps> Marajin: and you get all that for £30pm?
Oct 20 18:03:01 <gkatsev> tmzt: nothing, thats the point
Oct 20 18:03:06 <Marajin> Deeps: sure
Oct 20 18:03:40 <Deeps> o2 site disagrees, guessing you got that deal from retentions?
Oct 20 18:03:43 <Marajin> if you phone up and go '...nuh, I don't want to pay that' they'll routinely drop like 15ppm
Oct 20 18:03:46 <Marajin> sure
Oct 20 18:03:48 <gkatsev> i get 500 mins, unlimited text, data, mms, and gps for $60
Oct 20 18:03:49 <Marajin> but it's so easy to get
Oct 20 18:03:54 <tmzt> anybody know if cdma or gsm Pre's have a radio firmware upgrade?
Oct 20 18:03:54 <Marajin> they didn't argue, that was their first offer
Oct 20 18:03:59 <Deeps> yep
Oct 20 18:04:01 <tmzt> it would be in doctor image?
Oct 20 18:04:12 <Rick_work> and I get 450 mobile to land line minutes, unlimited mobile to mobile (any carrier) unlimited text, unlimited data, unlimited mms and gps and nav for $69.
Oct 20 18:04:15 <Deeps> the thing to consider is you dont have unlimited data btw, you have 500mb data
Oct 20 18:04:19 <Deeps> (on o2)
Oct 20 18:04:31 <Marajin> Deeps: nah they say you do but they don't police it
Oct 20 18:04:37 <Rick_work> honestly I don't see that the $9 diff is a big deal  and unlimited mobile to moible makes a big diff
Oct 20 18:04:43 <Marajin> same deal with their broadband..
Oct 20 18:04:50 <Marajin> they /say/ it has this fair usage clause
Oct 20 18:04:58 <Chais_z3r0> depending on which data package you have
Oct 20 18:05:03 <gkatsev> sprint is also has like 500mb free roaming data and free voice roaming. definitely most affordable carrier
Oct 20 18:05:03 <Marajin> but damn if I haven't downloaded hundreds of gig in a month with 0 interest from them
Oct 20 18:05:10 <Chais_z3r0> for o2 at least
Oct 20 18:05:18 <Deeps> Marajin: they've certainly started monitoring for tethering, i've used data on my PAYG o2 sim in the past by tethering for £1/day np, whereas as of a few months ago, they took all £15 credit in about a minute of browsing
Oct 20 18:05:31 <gkatsev> also, since they have the agreement with verizon about using their towers (hence the free roaming stuff) sprint technically has best service, lol
Oct 20 18:05:36 <Marajin> well yeah but that's PAYG for ya
Oct 20 18:05:44 <Marajin> you get sodomized for using it at all
Oct 20 18:06:00 <Marajin> TBH I have a standalone 3d modem deal
Oct 20 18:06:06 <Marajin> so I don't care about tethering
Oct 20 18:06:08 <Deeps> heh, you say that but i got 12 months "unlimited data and wifi" for £20 one off ;)
Oct 20 18:06:32 <Marajin> yeah except they police you to the 500 barrier ;)
Oct 20 18:06:44 <Marajin> they don't police me, so what you got was "unlimited" what I got IS unlimited
Oct 20 18:06:49 <Chais_z3r0> sorry to interrupt you, but which download do i need?
Oct 20 18:07:04 <Deeps> Marajin: wouldn't know, i've never come close to hitting the mythical 500mb barrier on my payg
Oct 20 18:07:11 <Marajin> heh :)
Oct 20 18:07:14 <Marajin> well no worries then
Oct 20 18:07:21 <Rick_work> Chais_z3r0  you need to download the Komodo editor
Oct 20 18:07:29 <Rick_work> then download the xul of the IDE plugin
Oct 20 18:07:30 <Deeps> and eitherway, £20 one off for 500mb for a year seems like a good deal
Oct 20 18:07:31 <Marajin> all I can say is I've abused the buggery out of their barriers and they haven't even sent me a warning text or letter
Oct 20 18:07:34 <Rick_work> then download the code completion
Oct 20 18:07:48 <Deeps> £1.66 per month for 12 motnhs for 500mb per month data? cant complain ;)
Oct 20 18:07:52 <Chais_z3r0> i see only the add-on the code completer and the beautifier
Oct 20 18:08:07 <Marajin> Deeps: yeah, opens your eyes how overpriced data charges are huh? :p
Oct 20 18:08:14 <Deeps> aye
Oct 20 18:08:20 <Rick_work> Chais_z3r0  http://www.activestate.com/komodo_edit/
Oct 20 18:08:23 <Deeps> just need to get my hands on a sim-free pre now and i'll be a happy man
Oct 20 18:08:25 <Marajin> 3 quid per meg with no tariff, but 1.66 per 500 meg otherwise?
Oct 20 18:08:45 <Marajin> madness I say
Oct 20 18:08:46 <Deeps> since i dont use voice or sms either, do all that over 3g atm without any issue
Oct 20 18:08:54 <Marajin> fair enough
Oct 20 18:09:00 <Marajin> I use my phone rather a lot with work so.. eh
Oct 20 18:09:24 <Marajin> and TBH 20 of the 30 quid I'm paying is technically just paying off the phone
Oct 20 18:09:42 <Deeps> considerring getting an iphone 3gs tbh, since i cant get a qwerty gsm pre for the same price
Oct 20 18:09:46 <Marajin> what with the 'simplicity' deals being roughyl 20 quid cheaper than a normal contract under the assumption you're providing a prepaid for phone
Oct 20 18:10:03 <Marajin> Deeps: don't do it! stay away from the dark side!
Oct 20 18:10:13 <Marajin> ..well ok, they shiney dark side but :p
Oct 20 18:10:19 <Deeps> btw, all i'm doing is using an iphone 3g payg sim that someone sold on ebay for a tenner with a ten quid topup
Oct 20 18:10:39 <Deeps> 20quid all in got me a tenner call+sms time + 12 motnhs 3g + wifi ;)
Oct 20 18:10:47 <Marajin> cool :)
Oct 20 18:10:51 <Marajin> whatever works for you mate
Oct 20 18:10:55 <Marajin> but the point oriiiginally
Oct 20 18:10:59 <Marajin> was that americans get pwned
Oct 20 18:11:04 <Deeps> oh, yes, lol, agreed
Oct 20 18:11:15 <Deeps> brits too though compared to other parts of europe :(
Oct 20 18:11:26 <Deeps> and the spanish more so! ::((
Oct 20 18:11:30 <Marajin> I'm to this day pissed about SMS prices actually
Oct 20 18:11:37 <Marajin> 10-12 pence per message?
Oct 20 18:11:41 <Marajin> for 160 bytes of data?
Oct 20 18:11:43 <Marajin> c'mooooon
Oct 20 18:12:15 <Marajin> what's the true value of an SMS? like 0.0000001 pence?
Oct 20 18:12:49 <Rick_work> the true value is what the market will bear.
Oct 20 18:12:58 <Marajin> ok, semantics check..
Oct 20 18:13:04 <Marajin> what's the true /cost/ of a text
Oct 20 18:13:09 <Rick_work> ahhhh
Oct 20 18:13:12 <Deeps> originally, 0
Oct 20 18:13:16 <Rick_work> vastly different question.
Oct 20 18:13:16 <Deeps> litterally
Oct 20 18:13:39 <Deeps> sms was a byproduct of the gsm protocol that nokia exploited
Oct 20 18:13:43 <Marajin> yeah
Oct 20 18:14:05 <Marajin> well you have to consider some overhead on the network
Oct 20 18:14:05 <Deeps> eventually upgrades became necessary for carriers to handle the load caused by the massive amounts of sms's
Oct 20 18:14:09 <Marajin> there's maintainence and such..
Oct 20 18:14:15 <Marajin> so it has a cost
Oct 20 18:14:16 <Marajin> but eh
Oct 20 18:14:21 <Marajin> not 10-12p per message
Oct 20 18:14:29 <Deeps> thus it stopped being a byproduct of gsm voice and started being the driving force behind further deployments
Oct 20 18:14:35 <Marajin> heh :)
Oct 20 18:14:36 <Marajin> yeah
Oct 20 18:14:36 <Chais_z3r0> right. you could easily transmit any amount of sms in the overhead traffic of the data connections
Oct 20 18:14:38 <Rick_work> answer:  I have no way to establish that, but the data points I would be interested in are: number of packets transiting the array of towers for all services, number of packets for sms, and the total cost of operating the towers, plus their amoritized construction costs.
Oct 20 18:14:52 <Marajin> text mania hit the UK long ago I remember that
Oct 20 18:14:58 <Marajin> I was still at school
Oct 20 18:15:02 <Deeps> genie with their free sms chips
Oct 20 18:15:13 <Deeps> included international sms too, bless them
Oct 20 18:15:28 <en0x> in poland ppl can write 500 text messages in a week
Oct 20 18:15:29 <en0x> ;D
Oct 20 18:15:33 <en0x> and i'm like LOL
Oct 20 18:15:47 <Marajin> Deeps: heh :)
Oct 20 18:15:49 <en0x> and the stupid thin on american carriers is that
Oct 20 18:15:52 <Marajin> Deeps: I remember those I think
Oct 20 18:16:00 <en0x> whgen you receive a sms it will charge you
Oct 20 18:16:07 <en0x> it should only charge you when u send
Oct 20 18:16:12 <Marajin> en0x: one again, americans get pwned ;)
Oct 20 18:16:19 <Deeps> joys of failure to bill roaming charges properly too were exceptional
Oct 20 18:16:22 <en0x> well i live in us
Oct 20 18:16:23 <Marajin> yeah my GF grew up in california
Oct 20 18:16:24 <Rick_work> thats stupider than charging the CALLING PARTY for a cell call?
Oct 20 18:16:31 <Marajin> went nuts about people sending texts
Oct 20 18:16:38 <Deeps> spanish operator movistar used batch billing on sms's, orange uk expected to be informed for roaming sms immediately
Oct 20 18:16:44 <Marajin> cause even if they have a tariff that saves them the costs..
Oct 20 18:16:47 <en0x> Marajin: thats why I love sprint
Oct 20 18:16:47 <Marajin> the recipient may not
Oct 20 18:16:55 <Deeps> so my orange payg chip with 17p credit gave me thousands of free sms's worldwide
Oct 20 18:16:56 <en0x> Marajin: because they dont charge for received sms
Oct 20 18:17:02 <en0x> Marajin: even from out of country
Oct 20 18:17:02 <en0x> :D
Oct 20 18:17:08 <Marajin> en0x: o rly? Might mention that to her family
Oct 20 18:17:12 <en0x> right
Oct 20 18:17:25 <en0x> my brother texts me from poland
Oct 20 18:17:29 <en0x> and I dont get charged
Oct 20 18:17:35 <Marajin> nifty :)
Oct 20 18:17:36 <en0x> only when I text him back to polish carrier
Oct 20 18:17:39 <Deeps> Rick_work: yeah, charging the receiver makes more sense than charging the person making the call, especially when there's no way to determine whether it's a mobile you're dialing, as is the case in many places, including the USA and hong kong
Oct 20 18:17:41 <en0x> i get charged 20 cents
Oct 20 18:18:03 <Marajin> en0x: that's less nifty :P
Oct 20 18:18:10 <Deeps> charging to receive a text, however, is unfair imo, as you cant refuse a text
Oct 20 18:18:10 <en0x> right
Oct 20 18:18:14 <Deeps> you can refuse to take a call though
Oct 20 18:18:22 <en0x> Marajin: but i got workaround ;D
Oct 20 18:18:27 <Marajin> Deeps: precisely my GF's hangup on the issue
Oct 20 18:18:40 <Marajin> Deeps: it's just not fair because she had virtually no control over it
Oct 20 18:18:41 <en0x> ur gf is badass
Oct 20 18:18:42 <en0x> :D
Oct 20 18:18:47 <Deeps> indeed
Oct 20 18:19:06 <Marajin> she just phoned her carrier and demanded they block any sms traffic to her phone in the end
Oct 20 18:19:10 <en0x> and thats why i love sprint unlimited messaging etc
Oct 20 18:19:11 <Marajin> that's the only choice she really had
Oct 20 18:19:14 <en0x> fuck u att and tmobile
Oct 20 18:19:14 <en0x> :D
Oct 20 18:19:25 <Deeps> that sucks
Oct 20 18:19:32 <Deeps> but necessary if you get a lot of spam, i guess
Oct 20 18:19:33 <Marajin> we have tmobile in the UK, I haven't met anyone that uses their service yet :p
Oct 20 18:19:49 <Deeps> i know loads of android users on tmobile
Oct 20 18:20:01 <Marajin> Deeps: her number had been reallocated, and the previous owner had signed up for a bunch of text alerts, news items and shit
Oct 20 18:20:09 <Marajin> Deeps: was driving her mad and driving her bill up
Oct 20 18:20:13 <en0x> come one
Oct 20 18:20:16 <Deeps> they're trying to convince me away from the pre to some mythical new android device that'll have a physical keyboard
Oct 20 18:20:24 <en0x> i was paying extra 15 bucks for unlimited txt messages on att
Oct 20 18:20:26 <Deeps> Marajin: damn.
Oct 20 18:20:26 <Marajin> Deeps: I only know one guy who has a G1 :p
Oct 20 18:20:35 <en0x> i was paying 50 bucks for cheapest plan
Oct 20 18:20:43 <en0x> plus text messages 15 buck
Oct 20 18:20:44 <Marajin> Deeps: eh? the hero? it's ok, the CPU can't cope with the UI
Oct 20 18:20:49 <en0x> no internet and mms
Oct 20 18:20:52 <Deeps> Marajin: nope, the hero doesn't have a keyboard
Oct 20 18:21:05 <Marajin> Deeps: it doesn't? O.o then only the G1 does afaik
Oct 20 18:21:08 <Deeps> yep
Oct 20 18:21:12 <Deeps> it's some soon to be released device
Oct 20 18:21:24 <Rick_work> The new motorola android has a keyboard I thought
Oct 20 18:21:30 <mdklein> the droid does
Oct 20 18:21:31 <Marajin> Deeps: well hey, if it has a proper chipset instead of an MSM then maybe it's worth a sniff ;)
Oct 20 18:21:39 <en0x> the new motorola android phone has a weird name
Oct 20 18:21:40 <Deeps> hehe
Oct 20 18:21:42 <tmzt> it's msm
Oct 20 18:21:45 <Marajin> but I'll make do with my pre for now since I only got it on saturday
Oct 20 18:21:49 <tmzt> hey Marajin, why?
Oct 20 18:21:51 <Marajin> tmzt: msm 7xxx?
Oct 20 18:21:51 <Deeps> haha
Oct 20 18:21:59 <tmzt> yes I think so
Oct 20 18:22:03 <tmzt> don't have source yet
Oct 20 18:22:10 <tmzt> not sure if it's 7x27 either
Oct 20 18:22:11 <Deeps> i was gonna get one sent over from germany til i discovered they were chipping qwertz
Oct 20 18:22:16 <Marajin> tmzt: why avoid the msm? cause it underperforms consistently on every OS as far as I hear
Oct 20 18:22:30 <chrisa> Not true
Oct 20 18:22:34 <Deeps> and there's no way i can justify 480euros on a phone without a proper keyboard
Oct 20 18:22:36 <chrisa> The problem is the particular MSM chosen
Oct 20 18:22:37 <tmzt> chrisa: you have 27
Oct 20 18:22:43 <chrisa> tmzt: I clarified
Oct 20 18:22:49 <Marajin> the snapdragon is cool but I haven't actually heard of a workable MSM7xxx phone
Oct 20 18:22:55 <tmzt> but dzo just told me that ati can only draw into framebuffer
Oct 20 18:23:02 <tmzt> and mdp/ppp still does dma over mddi
Oct 20 18:23:14 <chrisa> I don't understand why android handsets keep using the last gen chips
Oct 20 18:23:21 <Marajin> chrisa: yes the MSM 72/75 series :P
Oct 20 18:23:24 <tmzt> Marajin: snapdragon has a faster apps core, but it's the same smi stuff we've been working with for the last year
Oct 20 18:23:37 <tmzt> me neither
Oct 20 18:23:42 <tmzt> but they also don't pull codeaurora
Oct 20 18:23:44 <PuffTheMagic> yo yo
Oct 20 18:23:47 <tmzt> so no clue really
Oct 20 18:23:51 <Marajin> hey PuffTheMagic
Oct 20 18:24:00 <egaudet_work> what's up puff
Oct 20 18:24:06 <Rick_work> http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/US-EN/Consumer-Product-and-Services/Mobile-Phones/ci.Motorola-CLIQ-US-EN.alt
Oct 20 18:24:09 <tmzt> oh, and Samsung and Motorola are completely different kernels
Oct 20 18:24:11 <chrisa> I don't even think besides the x27 line that the earlier ones have FPUs
Oct 20 18:24:11 <Marajin> tmzt: yeah well that's intel's P4 trick isn't it? fighting bad design with faster clocks
Oct 20 18:24:17 <Marajin> tmzt: but it technically works
Oct 20 18:24:20 <tmzt> and added a bunch of OEM rpc stuff on amss
Oct 20 18:24:53 <tmzt> chrisa: no, but great to know 27 does :) karmic won't work on non-vfp
Oct 20 18:25:05 <PuffTheMagic> oil preware needs a watermake logo in the background like mediafly has
Oct 20 18:25:09 <chrisa> Also, it's a good time to mention that it was funny when you guys (well, the news sites) were posting rumors that the pre was changing to 7x27
Oct 20 18:25:16 <tmzt> Rick_work: that's cliq, not sholes/droid
Oct 20 18:25:26 <tmzt> we have kenrel source for cliq, it's on opensource.motorola.com
Oct 20 18:25:57 <chrisa> tmzt: you'd be amazed how many floats/doubles webkit uses ...
Oct 20 18:25:58 <tmzt> chrisa: why? I thought it was confirmed
Oct 20 18:25:58 <tmzt> I can guess, the luna stuff is nice
Oct 20 18:26:07 <chrisa> tmzt: no, I mean pre specifically. There were rumors saying pre went omap->msm
Oct 20 18:26:11 <tmzt> it would be nicer if you used sgx though :)
Oct 20 18:26:14 <tmzt> ah
Oct 20 18:26:15 <chrisa> When they were just confused and mixing up a pixi leak
Oct 20 18:26:28 <tmzt> no, the d digitial stuff confirmed omap3
Oct 20 18:26:38 <Chais_z3r0> now that i have komodo, i guess i need the add-on
Oct 20 18:26:39 <tmzt> I was excited for year
Oct 20 18:26:43 <chrisa> Pretty sure we said pre was omap well before it came out
Oct 20 18:26:48 <tmzt> yeah
Oct 20 18:26:51 <chrisa> analysts and rumormongers are just generally dumb
Oct 20 18:26:51 * mdklein wonders how long he has to wait for 1.2.x on opensource.palm.com... 
Oct 20 18:27:05 <tmzt> chrisa: this is why I'm launching a good blog :) someday
Oct 20 18:27:10 <tmzt> oh, oops
Oct 20 18:27:20 <tmzt> but I have no sources
Oct 20 18:27:46 <tmzt> chrisa: the funnier part is the used the gsm codename for Pre
Oct 20 18:27:55 <chrisa> Neither do some of the analysts
Oct 20 18:27:56 <chrisa> tmzt: which codename?
Oct 20 18:28:07 <tmzt> I just recognized
Oct 20 18:28:09 <tmzt> it
Oct 20 18:28:19 <tmzt> now I forget
Oct 20 18:28:24 <chrisa> I don't remember the carrier codenames for it, just our internal one
Oct 20 18:28:49 <tmzt> but they used it for a next generation Palm before d:digital
Oct 20 18:29:04 <tmzt> I had dmesg somewhere, it's in the top
Oct 20 18:29:13 <tmzt> or that tokens stuff rwhitby posted
Oct 20 18:30:22 <PuffTheMagic> ok. for the record. irssi on terminal on pre BLOW@s
Oct 20 18:30:57 <Marajin> PuffTheMagic: pah :p
Oct 20 18:31:06 <tmzt> it's the first part of the machine name before castle
Oct 20 18:31:13 <Marajin> PuffTheMagic: it sucks worse on angstrom on a HTC Kaiser ;)
Oct 20 18:31:55 <Chais_z3r0> lol PuffTheMagic interesting idea ^^
Oct 20 18:31:57 <PuffTheMagic> wait till i get wIRC/wIRCd ut
Oct 20 18:32:20 <chrisa> Am I the only person who doesn't like these horizontal sliders android seems to use?
Oct 20 18:32:26 <chrisa> Granted, I don't like sliders much in general
Oct 20 18:32:49 <Marajin> chrisa: yes, you're a loner ;) :p
Oct 20 18:32:49 <Deeps> chrisa: you mean the G1? (Android is an OS, not a phone o_O)
Oct 20 18:32:59 <Mousey> man.. what?
Oct 20 18:33:11 <chrisa> Deeps: the vast majority of android phones use a horizontal slider
Oct 20 18:33:23 <chrisa> Maybe because they all are just mimicing the G1. I'm not sure
Oct 20 18:33:34 <Deeps> i thought the G1 was the only phone that had a keyboard  (And thus a slider?)
Oct 20 18:33:37 <PuffTheMagic> i think horiz sliders make better use of screen space
Oct 20 18:33:50 <Chais_z3r0> i can't see any webos specific things in komodo yet oO
Oct 20 18:34:03 <mdklein> eh, most winmo sliders also are horizontal
Oct 20 18:34:03 <tmzt> and the paste expired
Oct 20 18:34:04 <PuffTheMagic> the pre is too narrow for lines of text
Oct 20 18:34:10 <chrisa> I think I'm past the point in my life where I want my phone to look like a gameboy while I'm using it
Oct 20 18:34:23 <Deeps> i think the point of the horizontal is to have bigger keys
Oct 20 18:34:30 <tmzt> Deeps: only android phone? it was until cliq/sholes
Oct 20 18:34:37 <Marajin> chrisa: heh :) I wish I still had my original 80s gameboy :p
Oct 20 18:34:38 <tmzt> calgary??
Oct 20 18:34:50 <chrisa> Mine is probably in ohio somewhere, still working
Oct 20 18:34:52 <chrisa> Those things do not die
Oct 20 18:35:04 <tmzt> chrisa: ohio? where?
Oct 20 18:35:05 <chrisa> Much like my first gen working NES
Oct 20 18:35:11 <tlp> PuffTheMagic: yep, it really does blow. Hence why I've been excited about your IRC service :p
Oct 20 18:35:13 <chrisa> columbus
Oct 20 18:35:26 <Deeps> tmzt: not out still though :(
Oct 20 18:35:26 <tlp> I can easily envision an awesome webOS IRC client. I drew one out on paper a few months ago.
Oct 20 18:35:26 <tmzt> I'm in akron, little far to go looking though
Oct 20 18:35:30 <egaudet_work> horizontal sliders are much better
Oct 20 18:35:53 <chrisa> I grew up in columbus so my mental image of the rest of ohio is something akin to a mad max wasteland, except with rednecks
Oct 20 18:36:09 <PuffTheMagic> tlp oil has a basic gui working
Oct 20 18:36:18 <chrisa> egaudet_work: fair enough. I don't like pre's slider either
Oct 20 18:36:19 <tmzt> well, you keep coming north on 71 or 77 or something and you find civilization again
Oct 20 18:36:27 <tlp> PuffTheMagic: Does it do anything, or is it a mock-up?
Oct 20 18:36:33 <PuffTheMagic> just waiting for the service ;)
Oct 20 18:36:36 <tlp> ah
Oct 20 18:37:10 <tlp> I'm not sure what you have in mind for the service, but the IRC protocol is super basic. An IRC client amounts to a plain text parser.
Oct 20 18:37:38 <tlp> You could pass the raw protocol text to the webOS app and it could parse it in JavaScript.
Oct 20 18:38:02 <tlp> so that the service would basically just be dealing with sockets
Oct 20 18:38:41 <Flashpass> quick question, when I stream music via bluetooth from my pre, is it a lossy transmission?
Oct 20 18:38:50 <chrisa> irc is that wheel that just keeps being reinvented
Oct 20 18:39:13 <Marajin> long live IRC :p
Oct 20 18:39:21 <Marajin> chrisa: and yeah it is, it's almost as bad as MUDs
Oct 20 18:39:31 <hozer> bah, just build finch and run it from the terminal :P
Oct 20 18:39:36 <tmzt> chrisa: now you have me looking for this codename or I'm just remembering wrong
Oct 20 18:39:42 <tmzt> I guess they all have nova-
Oct 20 18:40:02 <Marajin> hozer: finch can be annoyingly unstable
Oct 20 18:40:12 <mdklein> hozer likes unstable things
Oct 20 18:40:39 <Marajin> it's random too, I noticed on my server sometimes it runs for weeks then one day poof.. and othertimes it'll crash 3 times in an hour
Oct 20 18:41:04 <Marajin> it seems related to the msn protocol though majoritatively so somethings probably upsetting it related to msn/live messenger
Oct 20 18:41:08 <mdklein> right now xchat aqua crashes every time I right-click, so I really can't talk about stability of IRC clients...
Oct 20 18:41:35 <Marajin> mdklein: that'd be a mac version yes?
Oct 20 18:41:41 <mdklein> yes
Oct 20 18:41:44 <Marajin> right
Oct 20 18:41:55 <Marajin> tempting though it is I'm trying not to make silly comments about macs :(
Oct 20 18:42:05 <mdklein> it used to work, I just haven't had time to debug what changed
Oct 20 18:42:29 <chrisa> I used a first gen ibook g4 running debian as my main development system for all of college
Oct 20 18:42:48 <Marajin> I used to have a powerbook g4 and I had an intel mac mini
Oct 20 18:42:50 <chrisa> Then the logic board died out like nearly every other apple laptop back then
Oct 20 18:42:54 <Marajin> I tried to like OS X, god knows I tried
Oct 20 18:43:00 <tmzt> chrisa: how long ago was that?
Oct 20 18:43:16 <Marajin> but I just can't do it :(
Oct 20 18:43:34 <Chais_z3r0> you're coming from linux?
Oct 20 18:43:43 <chrisa> 02-08
Oct 20 18:44:12 <chrisa> ?
Oct 20 18:44:24 <mdklein> I think I had gentoo running on my g4s, it was kind of funny one year at a conference apple reps came over and noticed all the powerbooks at our booth, but every single one was running some version of linux...
Oct 20 18:44:24 <chrisa> I couldn't use osx, the ui bothered me
Oct 20 18:44:57 <Marajin> mdklein: heh :)
Oct 20 18:45:07 <Marajin> mdklein: yeah I ended up running gentoo on my powerbook g4
Oct 20 18:45:20 <Marajin> then the screen hinge snapped for no real reason I know of
Oct 20 18:45:23 <Marajin> and I just got fed up
Oct 20 18:45:23 <mdklein> I don't mind os-x as much since 10.5... I generally work in it, on the g4s, I'd have mac-on-linux for any os-x needed work
Oct 20 18:45:33 <mdklein> ugh, I went through 3 hinges on my g4
Oct 20 18:46:17 <Marajin> TBH of the.. 4 macs I've owned in my life I never actually bought any of them
Oct 20 18:46:35 <Marajin> the only apple products I've ever purchased were an ipod classic and an ipod touch 2G
Oct 20 18:46:35 <mdklein> that too, I only have them for work
Oct 20 18:47:01 <Marajin> I just detest them as a company too much to bring myself to pay them any significant wonga
Oct 20 18:47:36 <chrisa> I can't buy their products because they force a trackpad I cannot use
Oct 20 18:47:38 <mdklein> I won an ipod touch once, but the gf decided to wash my gym clothes without checking pockets, and it didn't like to swim :(
Oct 20 18:47:52 <Marajin> mdklein: heh :)
Oct 20 18:48:06 <Marajin> mdklein: man you should be glad you get your clothes washed for you :p
Oct 20 18:48:18 <Marajin> ...well you should if you hadn't lost connection :>
Oct 20 18:48:20 <mdklein> damn accidental right clik
Oct 20 18:48:25 <Marajin> aha, wb mdklein  :p
Oct 20 18:48:29 <Marajin> mdklein: man you should be glad you get your clothes washed for you :p
Oct 20 18:50:15 <mdklein> brb
Oct 20 18:55:41 <egaudet_work> where's dBsooner
Oct 20 18:55:47 <egaudet_work> ~seen dBsooner
Oct 20 18:55:52 <infobot> dbsooner <n=dbsooner@ip98-184-140-94.tu.ok.cox.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 17h 10m 10s ago, saying: 'I just hate my routers cuz I want to have pptp client on my router, but all of my routers are only 2MB rom space.'.
Oct 20 19:07:25 <tmzt> but pptp is a small plugin to ppp
Oct 20 19:07:26 <tmzt> pppd
Oct 20 19:07:32 <tmzt> and mostly in the kernel anyway
Oct 20 19:08:21 <tmzt> chrisa: what's wrong with the trackpad?
Oct 20 19:08:42 <tmzt> two fingers is right mouse button
Oct 20 19:10:05 <chrisa> I cannot stand tapping trackpads, and enabling notap is the first thing I do after an os install
Oct 20 19:10:25 <chrisa> and needing multiple fingers is annoying to me
Oct 20 19:11:05 <tmzt> ah, ok
Oct 20 19:14:48 <Thomaschaaf> now working on getting the 1.2.1 on GSM
Oct 20 19:15:06 <en0x> did it flashed fine?
Oct 20 19:15:21 <Thomaschaaf> I am now downloading the webdoctor..
Oct 20 19:15:28 <Thomaschaaf> just got home..
Oct 20 19:15:43 <Thomaschaaf> so 16 mins.. till dl is finished
Oct 20 19:15:59 <Thomaschaaf> is there a faster mirror..
Oct 20 19:16:00 <en0x> i see
Oct 20 19:16:07 <en0x> i thought that u flashed it already
Oct 20 19:16:13 <Thomaschaaf> 200kb/s on a 1600 kb/s line sucks
Oct 20 19:17:02 <Thomaschaaf> I hope it will even let me flash..
Oct 20 19:17:17 <Thomaschaaf> I currently don't have a sim lock would suck if that got changed..
Oct 20 19:17:56 <Thomaschaaf> do you think a reflashing would solve it if that was the case and would I get to return it saying it doesn't work anymore after I used the webdoctor..
Oct 20 19:18:02 <Thomaschaaf> since that is all i'm doing..
Oct 20 19:19:22 <en0x> you will be able to flash back
Oct 20 19:19:33 <en0x> and you for sure can exchange it
Oct 20 19:19:35 <en0x> if it broke
Oct 20 19:19:39 <Thomaschaaf> is there a way to get all the sim contacts into the palm cloud or google cloud? I really hate retagging everyone after flashing it..
Oct 20 19:19:55 <tmzt> throw it very high
Oct 20 19:20:00 <Rick_work> The doctor should just work Thomas
Oct 20 19:20:03 <tmzt> wait, what?
Oct 20 19:20:11 <HattCzech> anyone here had issues with exchange for their pre? i'm getting "unable to validate incoming mail server settings"
Oct 20 19:20:19 <Mousey> i'd still like to be my own cloud and store them in my local ldap database =(
Oct 20 19:20:34 <Thomaschaaf> Mousey ExchangeserveR?
Oct 20 19:20:41 <Mousey> OpenLDAP
Oct 20 19:20:41 <Rick_work> Thomaschaaf  doesn't the "first run" app give you the opportunity to do that?
Oct 20 19:21:02 <Mousey> eGroupware, to be precice
Oct 20 19:21:05 <Thomaschaaf> uhm maybe.. but now it's to late :(
Oct 20 19:21:15 <Rick_work> Thomaschaaf  you're flashing it.
Oct 20 19:21:22 <Rick_work> that will re-run the first-use app.
Oct 20 19:21:27 <Thomaschaaf> yea but already have a palm acc
Oct 20 19:21:40 <Rick_work> should still be ok guy....
Oct 20 19:22:54 <Mousey> everybody bitches about the cloud, and warns about the cloud, and dooms and naysays about the cloud, but when it comes to standing up and acting, hosting your own data in your own machines.. nobody thinks that's a good idea.. =(
Oct 20 19:23:18 <Mousey> faust would be so proud
Oct 20 19:23:23 <Thomaschaaf> Mousey: you could write an app for that ;)
Oct 20 19:23:29 * freakout loves having his data on his own machine
Oct 20 19:23:31 <Mousey> Thomaschaaf: there's tons of apps for it
Oct 20 19:23:43 <Mousey> but i'm still tied to Palm Profile, mysteriously
Oct 20 19:24:35 <tmzt> Mousey: push opaque data to remote machines
Oct 20 19:24:54 <Mousey> doesn't untie me from palm profile
Oct 20 19:25:08 <Mousey> its not about obscurity, or opaquity, or even anonimity
Oct 20 19:25:41 <Mousey> and talking about it just makes me feel worse, cuz i'll just look like a kook..
Oct 20 19:25:47 <Mousey> so whatever
Oct 20 19:25:49 <Thomaschaaf> I hate when the connection sucks.. why doesn't palm have a descent connection so I can dl the webdoctor faster?
Oct 20 19:26:03 <tmzt> Palm's connection?
Oct 20 19:26:23 <Thomaschaaf> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/rom/p121r0d10092009/sr1ntp121rod/webosdoctorp100ewwsprint.jar slow as fuck from germany
Oct 20 19:32:24 <Rick_work> it's not the servers,
Oct 20 19:32:34 <Rick_work> palm's downloads to here are very fast.
Oct 20 19:32:39 <Rick_work> they need to mirror in europe
Oct 20 19:32:39 <tmzt> it's a cdn
Oct 20 19:32:44 <tmzt> there's no mirror somewhere?
Oct 20 19:32:48 <tmzt> makes no sense
Oct 20 19:34:00 <freakout> Mousey: for me it's just about reliability. At the end of the day I trust having my own copy of my data more than I do having it all on someone else's machine
Oct 20 19:34:17 <freakout> Mousey: even if that machine(s) are vastly more powerful and reliable than my own ;)
Oct 20 19:34:30 <Mousey> freakout: yes, but still no syncml
Oct 20 19:34:36 <Thomaschaaf> 3%
Oct 20 19:34:40 <tlp> oil: do you have any screenshots of the UI you worked up for wIRC?
Oct 20 19:34:51 <Thomaschaaf> whohooo 6%
Oct 20 19:35:56 <Mousey> freakout: that's exactly right. but everybody loves their wool helmets too much i guess
Oct 20 19:36:47 <freakout> Mousey: they will learn... (cue ominous music)
Oct 20 19:37:36 <Mousey> see, that goes back to "d, and warns about the cloud, "
Oct 20 19:37:51 <Mousey> but whatever, i guess its offtopic to begin with
Oct 20 19:40:34 <Thomaschaaf> freakout: yeye 54%
Oct 20 19:40:43 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: lol
Oct 20 19:40:55 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: yes, I'm sure the percentage going up is very exciting
Oct 20 19:41:01 <Thomaschaaf> haha :D
Oct 20 19:41:04 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: .....for you :o
Oct 20 19:41:09 <Thomaschaaf> :(
Oct 20 19:41:12 <freakout> lol
Oct 20 19:41:34 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: I'll be excited when it's finished and working ;)
Oct 20 19:42:13 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: we can scream and do a little happy dance like a girl telling her friends that she's getting married
Oct 20 19:44:38 <Thomaschaaf> hmm not moving along at 66%
Oct 20 19:44:45 <Thomaschaaf> ah okay forget that
Oct 20 19:44:50 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: lol
Oct 20 19:45:08 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: go make a cup of coffee or a cocktail or something while yu wait
Oct 20 19:45:11 <freakout> do some push-ups
Oct 20 19:45:16 <freakout> go for a run
Oct 20 19:45:26 <Thomaschaaf> 4chan iwll do :P
Oct 20 19:45:44 <freakout> haha
Oct 20 19:45:48 * freakout goes to get ready for work...
Oct 20 19:46:19 <Thomaschaaf> booooooting
Oct 20 19:46:46 <Thomaschaaf> freakout: wait at what time do you wrok?
Oct 20 19:47:02 <Thomaschaaf> weernt you up like 7 hours ago?
Oct 20 19:47:28 <freakout> Thomaschaaf: I'm in Oz. Went to bed at midnight. Work is 8am shift today :(
Oct 20 19:47:39 <Thomaschaaf> Oz?
Oct 20 19:47:44 <freakout> australia
Oct 20 19:47:49 <Thomaschaaf> oh okay
Oct 20 19:48:00 <Thomaschaaf> do you even have the palm there?
Oct 20 19:48:37 <tlp> oil: ah, found it in my URL log. Your UI looks a lot like mine. :D
Oct 20 19:48:49 <Thomaschaaf> no german :(
Oct 20 19:50:06 <oil> aye?
Oct 20 19:50:26 <tlp> yep, except you actually have real mockups and not just drawings.
Oct 20 19:51:01 <oil> ok?
Oct 20 19:51:08 <oil> idk what we're talking about
Oct 20 19:51:14 <tlp> 13:33 < tlp> oil: do you have any screenshots of the UI you worked up for wIRC?
Oct 20 19:51:47 <oil> oh
Oct 20 19:55:06 <oil> you made a gui?
Oct 20 19:56:08 <Thomaschaaf> can I see the UI design?
Oct 20 19:57:13 <freakout> oil: And can I post your mockup? under the category of "homebrew app preview"? :)
Oct 20 19:57:16 <tlp> oil: Yep. The first thing I did after playing around with my Pre for a few days was draw out how I thought a webOS IRC client would work, but abruptly abandoned the project when I found out the SDK can't deal with sockets.
Oct 20 19:57:37 <oil> freakout it doesn't do shit
Oct 20 19:57:39 <tlp> you guys are more equipped than I am to do this anyway, so I'm glad you have similar ideas
Oct 20 19:59:05 <Thomaschaaf> yo!
Oct 20 19:59:06 <Thomaschaaf> yo1
Oct 20 19:59:08 <Thomaschaaf> its working
Oct 20 19:59:09 <tlp> I was going to do it over AJAX with a PHP backend, but I never really liked that idea.
Oct 20 19:59:16 <Thomaschaaf> now lets try to call someone :D
Oct 20 19:59:20 <oil> yeah, thats a really bad idea
Oct 20 20:00:06 <Thomaschaaf> calling works
Oct 20 20:00:12 <Flashpass> has there been any news or information about a possible skype chat application by chance?
Oct 20 20:00:32 <oil> probably wont be for a while
Oct 20 20:00:51 <Thomaschaaf> you can't access the mic..
Oct 20 20:00:51 <Flashpass> why is that?
Oct 20 20:00:54 <Thomaschaaf> maybe with 1.3
Oct 20 20:01:06 <oil> even so, it would need to be done with a service
Oct 20 20:01:13 <oil> you're not going to be doing skype calls over ajax
Oct 20 20:01:14 <oil> lols
Oct 20 20:01:17 <Flashpass> Ah, I would mostly like it for the chat capabilities though honestly.
Oct 20 20:03:47 <Thomaschaaf> I think libpurple actually has that funcatioality..
Oct 20 20:04:01 <Thomaschaaf> at least miranda does I think
Oct 20 20:05:08 <chrisa> People have the headers for purple connectors now don't they?
Oct 20 20:05:09 * oil goes back to work
Oct 20 20:05:42 <Abyssul> On what Oil?
Oct 20 20:05:57 <oil> uh, my job
Oct 20 20:06:03 <oil> lunch is over :(
Oct 20 20:06:09 <Abyssul> Haha
Oct 20 20:06:33 <Thomaschaaf> is there a way to get the keyboard lit up and have the screen dark?
Oct 20 20:07:11 <gkatsev> check brightness unlinked or w/e the app is called
Oct 20 20:08:38 <Abyssul> Wow... is Engadget just about Apple?
Oct 20 20:09:00 <gkatsev> no
Oct 20 20:09:11 <Abyssul> Theres like 10 Apple articles back to back
Oct 20 20:09:15 <gkatsev> the engadget show's first guest was john rubenstein
Oct 20 20:09:21 <gkatsev> Abyssul: new apple stuff today
Oct 20 20:09:32 <Abyssul> Well that makes sense I guess
Oct 20 20:10:09 <Thomaschaaf> the mac mini server looks cute..
Oct 20 20:10:14 <Thomaschaaf> but EXPENSIVE
Oct 20 20:10:18 <gkatsev> their new mouse looks kind of cool, actually
Oct 20 20:10:53 <freakout> oil: No, but it's pretty.
Oct 20 20:11:22 <freakout> oil: and PreCentral haven't covered it yet ;)
Oct 20 20:11:42 <Abyssul> People are so stupid... This person is asking for a patch to have the Pre answer calls when they open the slider
Oct 20 20:11:47 <freakout> chrisa: if you're talking about libpurple, the answer is yes
Oct 20 20:12:20 <chrisa> Have people tried to get pidgin's irc support working?
Oct 20 20:12:27 <chrisa> I mean, pidgin irc usage is awful, but still
Oct 20 20:12:29 <freakout> chrisa: well, greg_roll has
Oct 20 20:12:38 <Abyssul> Greg_Roll will be working on that soon
Oct 20 20:12:39 <freakout> but only in a preliminary sense
Oct 20 20:12:46 <freakout> he's still working on Facebook chat right now
Oct 20 20:12:55 <freakout> not having much luck thus far.
Oct 20 20:12:56 <Abyssul> I don't think he will be useing Pidgins though
Oct 20 20:15:56 <chrisa> Of all things to work on I'm amazed facebook chat is a priority
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 20:16:14 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 22:16:14 2009
Oct 20 22:16:34 * Mousey stares blankly
Oct 20 22:17:53 <Marajin> Mousey: around about the point it gets to 'No need to panic, no need to cry, I'm an undercover agent working for the FBI... but the poor guy nearly fainted, when to him she did say.. Hey, my name is fritz! these are not real tits and I'm with the CIA!"
Oct 20 22:18:21 <Mousey> lulz
Oct 20 22:19:00 <Marajin> great song :)
Oct 20 22:19:14 <Mousey> by?
Oct 20 22:19:36 <Marajin> um, well I don't know if he wrote it but I heard it sung by billy connelly
Oct 20 22:19:53 <Mousey> *nod*
Oct 20 22:20:43 <einalex> Robi_: the tethering app doesn't work on my gsm pre
Oct 20 22:21:18 <Abyssul> When can we get a patch that will enable a "Time til lock" for the Pre? I hate having to enter my PIN each time I want to respond to a text message.
Oct 20 22:21:24 <Abyssul> I would kill for that
Oct 20 22:21:48 <einalex> Abyssul: why don't you just disable hat?
Oct 20 22:22:11 <Abyssul> Because I rather have the burden than have people in my texts and photos
Oct 20 22:22:35 <Abyssul> Like just last week I had to give my phone to a teacher to go to the bathroom and when I came back he tried to read my messages
Oct 20 22:23:15 <sepi> wtf
Oct 20 22:23:15 <Robi_> einalex: oh rly?
Oct 20 22:23:23 <Robi_> you tell raja about it?
Oct 20 22:23:30 <Robi_> einalex: , the concept is silly simple
Oct 20 22:23:50 <einalex> not yet..
Oct 20 22:24:06 <Robi_> einalex: you just use the linux commands to get ipforwarding going
Oct 20 22:24:17 <Robi_> einalex: you can look at all the scripts it uses
Oct 20 22:24:26 <einalex> Abyssul: you could manually lock it before giving it away
Oct 20 22:24:50 <Abyssul> A PIN lock?
Oct 20 22:24:56 <Abyssul> Thats troublesome...
Oct 20 22:25:12 <Robi_> einalex: just look at the forums on how to get log data from the app.. then some patience, since you're probably not the only one its not working for
Oct 20 22:25:50 <Abyssul> Why not just have the ability for a timer or a certain combo with the keys that (center button and power button? or meta key + center) that will manually lock the Pre with the PIN.
Oct 20 22:25:58 <einalex> Abyssul: less troublesome than reentering the pin everytime you get it back from standby
Oct 20 22:25:59 <Marajin> Abyssul: to a teacher? man how old are you
Oct 20 22:26:04 <Abyssul> 17
Oct 20 22:26:20 <Marajin> and you have to give up your phone to go to the toilet?
Oct 20 22:26:23 <Abyssul> Our school was on lockdown due to the shooting and they didn't want us calling people.
Oct 20 22:26:59 <Marajin> man we have to grill our kids just to get them to turn their phones to silent and they /leave/ our place at 16
Oct 20 22:27:11 <sepi> does PalmDatabase also contain the calendar data?
Oct 20 22:27:52 <einalex> Robi_: i will, although i'd really prefer to have ad-hoc networks appear in the network list..
Oct 20 22:28:13 <Robi_> generally they do
Oct 20 22:28:20 <sepi> also, I cannot find anything about running python or ruby on the pre. Has this been done before?
Oct 20 22:28:32 <Robi_> if you make one on yor laptop, the Pre will see it
Oct 20 22:28:55 <Robi_> the harder part is to make one on the Pre, but not that hard as it's just linux
Oct 20 22:29:27 <sepi> I'd like to write a script that can somehow send my calendar to my server
Oct 20 22:29:58 <einalex> Robi_: well with my pre they don't
Oct 20 22:30:09 <einalex> but i'm on the gsm one with webos 1.1.3 i think
Oct 20 22:30:23 <Robi_> wifi chip doesn't care
Oct 20 22:30:59 <Robi_> so you're saying if you change your network to an AP it shows, but ADHoc doensn't?
Oct 20 22:31:06 <Robi_> AP=infrastructure
Oct 20 22:31:50 <einalex> i say when i enable the wifi via the gui
Oct 20 22:31:58 <einalex> the list of available networks
Oct 20 22:32:11 <einalex> shows just infrastructure networks
Oct 20 22:32:23 <einalex> but no ad-hoc networks
Oct 20 22:35:45 <Robi_> odd, it shouldn't care
Oct 20 22:35:46 <rwhitby> sepi: python and rubi are in optware.
Oct 20 22:35:52 <Robi_> perhaps there's some filter in the UI
Oct 20 22:36:15 <Robi_> compare it to the iwconfig output in a terminal
Oct 20 22:36:15 <einalex> i had a look at the javascript
Oct 20 22:36:34 <einalex> and it is accespoint specific to  a degree
Oct 20 22:36:53 <einalex> that makes me wonder if someone even thought about doing adhoc with it..
Oct 20 22:37:06 <einalex> then again it could just be a naming issue
Oct 20 22:37:10 <Robi_> ya we did long ago
Oct 20 22:39:15 <Robi_> there an update for your device yet?
Oct 20 22:39:20 <Robi_> 1.2.x?
Oct 20 22:39:29 <einalex> no
Oct 20 22:39:34 <einalex> unfortunately not
Oct 20 22:39:53 <Robi_> ad hoc worked for us in 1.x, so it must be something custom from your provider
Oct 20 22:40:32 <einalex> we should probably compare the related files
Oct 20 22:40:49 <einalex> generate diffs and look whats different..
Oct 20 22:44:31 <Abyssul> Anyone wanna look into this? http://tinyurl.com/yju4xr7
Oct 20 22:45:08 <en0x> i dont use autolock
Oct 20 22:45:08 <en0x> :P
Oct 20 22:46:48 <zsoc> Abyssul, I think it would be easier to create a patch that _stopped_ autolock from engaging without a certain key command. or maybe a "Switch" that turned it on in off (instead of having to go into a menu, just a quick trigger)
Oct 20 22:46:53 <sepi> rwhitby: ohh, ok, I only looked in the wiki. thanks
Oct 20 22:47:12 <Abyssul> Thats kind've what I'm asking :)
Oct 20 22:47:16 <Abyssul> Its a start
Oct 20 22:48:03 <en0x> i would go with a patch that is using a switch to turn it on or off
Oct 20 22:48:13 <en0x> something like double tap next to center button for keyboard
Oct 20 22:48:17 <en0x> that would beneat
Oct 20 22:48:21 <Abyssul> Easier said than done...
Oct 20 22:48:23 <zsoc|away> yeah, actually, one of those "trigger" apps... would probably be a super sinch to copy
Oct 20 22:48:25 <en0x> right
Oct 20 22:48:28 <zsoc|away> change the one variable or what not
Oct 20 22:50:19 <einalex> so Robi_, you know the needed files, could you just link them on a wiki page and post me the url? i'd look into it then..
Oct 20 22:50:41 <Robi_> doesn't work that way
Oct 20 22:51:16 <Robi_> for an app to be able to turn on/off wifi there's the need to have terminal services start/stop
Oct 20 22:51:36 <Robi_> for that ther's the webos-internals service you install, so scripts can be executed
Oct 20 22:51:53 <Robi_> then you can hook that into a webos app and run it
Oct 20 22:54:39 <Abyssul> It can't just be a key combination or a timer?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 22:56:54 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 23:36:15 2009
Oct 20 23:38:25 <freakout> DarthPooh: lol. shoulda known
Oct 20 23:38:47 <freakout> chrisa: tell us the release date and we'll know when to be ready :p
Oct 20 23:39:15 <chrisa> Lets call it today, I already have a pixi
Oct 20 23:39:52 <Templarian1> hehe.
Oct 20 23:41:04 <freakout> infobot has quit??!!
Oct 20 23:42:05 <sepi> Is it possible that the images made by the pre are pretty agressively sharpened?
Oct 20 23:43:20 <Templarian1> freakout: suicide. Don't worry it's being fixed so it doesn't happen again (I would presume)
Oct 20 23:43:37 <freakout> chrisa: amazing!
Oct 20 23:43:42 * freakout blogs madly
Oct 20 23:43:56 <chrisa> I had one a year ago, I cheat
Oct 20 23:44:07 <freakout> chrisa: you're biased as a member of the team of course, but which do you like better as everyday phone - Pre or Pixi?
Oct 20 23:44:08 <Templarian1> ~botsnack
Oct 20 23:44:25 <Templarian1> rwhitby: does the bot run on the webos-internals server?
Oct 20 23:44:42 <Templarian1> (if so wake it up)
Oct 20 23:45:00 <chrisa> I'm leaning towards pixi actually. I prefer the form factor, the keyboard doesn't have to be so flat and not needing to slide it open to type is nice
Oct 20 23:46:10 <chrisa> But I'm a vocal slider-hater
Oct 20 23:46:52 <freakout> chrisa: I love the candybar form factor. if Pixi had wifi I'd be all over it
Oct 20 23:47:22 <freakout> chrisa: but with such crummy data plans in Oz (the best you can get is 1GB) wifi is a dealbreaker for webOS
Oct 20 23:48:39 <Templarian1> I don't use wifi... 3g is just as faster and always there.
Oct 20 23:48:54 <Templarian1> s/faster/fast/
Oct 20 23:48:54 <infobot> Templarian1 meant: I don't use wifi... 3g is just as fast and always there.
Oct 20 23:49:04 <Templarian1> ~botsnack
Oct 20 23:49:05 <infobot> :), Templarian1
Oct 20 23:49:47 <freakout> welcome back infobot
Oct 20 23:49:59 <Templarian1> 1gb is still a decent amount though but yea not good enough without wifi
Oct 20 23:50:55 <Templarian1> What number gives usage * and what number?
Oct 20 23:53:11 <Templarian1> i guessed lol it's *4
Oct 20 23:53:34 <Templarian1> i'ved 2minutes in 10 days lol.
Oct 20 23:54:57 <rwhitby> Templarian1: no, infobot is independent
Oct 20 23:56:14 <Templarian1> Yea, i've only used 293MB of data, we need a torrent app.
Oct 20 23:58:07 <Templarian1> rwhitby: you should let the robots think for themselves i've seen how this ends... it doesn't end well.
Oct 20 23:58:46 <rwhitby> Templarian1: as long as infobot can't flash a Pre, we're still ok.
Oct 20 23:58:58 * rwhitby is now off listening to PalmCast Live. http://chatroll.com/palmcast-live
Oct 21 00:02:12 <Templarian1> rwhitby: it's over capacity... :(
Oct 21 00:03:53 <destinal> I've only used 33megs in the last couple of days.  hmm.
Oct 21 00:04:37 <Templarian1> Yea, I use my phone for video lately and music so...
Oct 21 00:04:52 <Templarian1> And a lot of surfing the internet. I'll hit 5gb the minute we get flash.
Oct 21 00:05:20 <destinal> turns out I've used a lot fewer minutes than I thought, most are mobile to mobile minutes which I guess aren't counted against me on sprint now?
Oct 21 00:06:00 <Templarian1> Correct... thus my 2min
Oct 21 00:09:51 <Templarian1> Makes me wonder why we even have minutes anymore are they just a formality.
Oct 21 00:12:47 <destinal> Templarian1: well, I guess they want their $ for terminating calls to the PSTN / land-lines
Oct 21 00:12:56 <destinal> whichever
Oct 21 00:13:20 <Templarian1> What's a land line?
Oct 21 00:13:25 <Templarian1> (hehe)
Oct 21 00:15:22 <Decimation> ugh, i cant chat on the palmcast
Oct 21 00:15:27 <Decimation> the chat box is full
Oct 21 00:15:28 <thatdude> I installed the patch Rod worked created, the one that shows the WIFI SSID instead of the carrier string...
Oct 21 00:15:52 <thatdude> Now how in the world this patch started working when I uninstalled it when it was not working when it was installed oO
Oct 21 00:16:09 <thatdude> Rod... get yourself a pre! :P
Oct 21 00:16:29 <destinal> Abyssul, einalex: I think the thing to do is add a lock icon to the menu that pops up when you hold the power button.  then patch the pin-assistant to auto-unlock unless a value is set by hitting that
Oct 21 00:18:16 <destinal> thatdude: that's a very good idea.  SSID changes a lot more often than you carrier :P
Oct 21 00:19:18 <Decimation> thatdude: he has a pre :/
Oct 21 00:19:34 <rwhitby> thatdude: I have a German GSM Pre on the way.  Courtesy of a big donation from PreCentral.
Oct 21 00:19:56 <thatdude> destinal: Lol
Oct 21 00:20:05 <thatdude> Decimation: Not yet..
Oct 21 00:20:19 <thatdude> rwhitby: That's great news
Oct 21 00:20:23 <rwhitby> thatdude: I have a CDMA Pre which does not work as a phone in Australia
Oct 21 00:20:39 <Decimation> thatdude: yes, he has a cdma pre to use, no phone service, but its still there.
Oct 21 00:20:54 <rwhitby> The CDMA one is courtesy of community donations.
Oct 21 00:21:00 <Templarian1> rwhitby: that reminds me since you don't need the cdma pre have you thought of a contest?
Oct 21 00:21:15 <rwhitby> Templarian1: CDMA Pre will be used for development.
Oct 21 00:21:18 <Templarian1> (unless you keep it for testing)
Oct 21 00:21:29 <rwhitby> GSM Pre will hopefully be my phone if it works well enough.
Oct 21 00:21:40 <thatdude> rwhitby: Yeah I agree, continue to use the hone for development
Oct 21 00:21:48 <rwhitby> You don't want to do the stuff I do on your real phone.
Oct 21 00:21:57 <Templarian1> How is GSM internet in Australia?
Oct 21 00:22:19 <rwhitby> Much better than US, but no unlimited plans.
Oct 21 00:22:39 <thatdude> rwhitby: So seriously, your patch is working for me when uninstalled, mostlikely because I have yet to restart Luna but just found it hilarious.
Oct 21 00:23:01 <rwhitby> all patches will continue to work until uninstalled
Oct 21 00:23:04 <rwhitby> and Luna Restart
Oct 21 00:23:12 <thatdude> +rwhitby: I know
Oct 21 00:24:10 <jettero> if you know, it doesn't sem that hilarious
Oct 21 00:24:28 <thatdude> Anyone hearing/viewing PalmCast Live?
Oct 21 00:24:55 <Decimation> rwhitby: cant be that bad what you do :P
Oct 21 00:25:22 <thatdude> Decimation: hahaha
Oct 21 00:26:44 <thatdude> Who is Keith?
Oct 21 00:27:04 <jettero> who jettero
Oct 21 00:27:12 <jettero> haha typo
Oct 21 00:27:25 * jettero was checking to see if his pdcp cloak was still going
Oct 21 00:27:26 * thatdude was about to use a trout
Oct 21 00:27:32 <jettero> seems like 100 years ago since I donated
Oct 21 00:28:47 <thatdude> Btw I got the tweed on the server update, nice upgrade.
Oct 21 00:28:55 * Templarian1 hehe got 1mb per 10sec good enough for streaming.
Oct 21 00:29:57 <jettero> if the weather is really nice and I stick my phone out the window, and everyone else is asleep I can get almost 6meg on evdo
Oct 21 00:30:14 <thatdude> jettero: You actually tried it?
Oct 21 00:30:23 <jettero> what? out the window?
Oct 21 00:30:37 <jettero> not literally... if that were necessary, I'd walk outside
Oct 21 00:30:39 <jettero> I don't open windows
Oct 21 00:30:49 <jettero> not since like 1992
Oct 21 00:30:57 <sugardave> badum dum sheee
Oct 21 00:31:43 <jettero> there should be a badum dum sheee app
Oct 21 00:31:46 <rwhitby> thatdude: Still hoping for more community donations to cover the full cost of the RAM ...
Oct 21 00:32:14 <jettero> ram for?
Oct 21 00:32:21 <thatdude> rwhitby: You may know this already or not but when patch is installed while wifi is enabled it does not show after Luna is restarted.  It starts working when wifi gets turn off and back on.
Oct 21 00:32:53 <jettero> might be enough to restart powerd then
Oct 21 00:33:17 <jettero> I find that fixes lots of things, including when the powerd goes crazy and drives the loadavg to 4 for hours on end (killing the battery)
Oct 21 00:33:23 <rwhitby> thatdude: yeah, there will be lots of cases where it does not get updated properly.  We'll find and fix them one by one.
Oct 21 00:33:27 <jettero> just restart it, bam, all better
Oct 21 00:34:10 <thatdude> jettero: I agree but the patches should all work after Luna restart unless specified.
Oct 21 00:35:03 <jettero> I've actually been wondering if the powerd going crazy is my fault
Oct 21 00:35:16 <jettero> I don't clean up the things from my apps very well, what happens if you don't clean up mojo events?
Oct 21 00:35:20 <jettero> could that be it?
Oct 21 00:35:34 <jettero> no time to investigate meaningfully... but I mean to figure that out
Oct 21 00:36:17 <Templarian1> jettero: if they aren't doing anything not a whole lot... if they are calling other code it could just be ram intensive and effect you during the garbage collection.
Oct 21 00:37:29 <thatdude> Who is Keith Newman from PalmCast Live, I wanna tell him how annoying he looks chewing on gum.
Oct 21 00:38:01 <jettero> Templarian1: that's kinda what I figured, if I follow, it felt like the events (Tap listeners and thigns) should get caught by a garbage collector... but the examples show explicitly turning off the listeners ...
Oct 21 00:38:46 <jettero> some of the tap events push scenes and things, but it seems like they should stop listening when their widgets get dested
Oct 21 00:38:49 <Templarian1> jettero: they will persist, event's don't disappear unless you tell them to.
Oct 21 00:39:13 <Templarian1> (oh yea widgets should remove their own events if it is coded right on palms end)
Oct 21 00:39:15 <jettero> I'll have to go back and clean that up then
Oct 21 00:39:28 <jettero> oh
Oct 21 00:39:31 <jettero> wait, which is it? :)
Oct 21 00:40:03 <Templarian1> It matters what you are doing if you remove a scene it will kill the events.
Oct 21 00:40:19 <jettero> Palm shows cleaning up the events, ... in the way I clean things up when I'm not being sloppy... but I'm hoping if I forget to clean something up, and someone closes the app ... my events won't jam up their Pre (assuming I ever released anythign).
Oct 21 00:40:47 <jettero> ok ok, I'm all set then
Oct 21 00:41:11 <Templarian1> Oh yea an app close kills everything associated with it.
Oct 21 00:41:21 <jettero> when the powerd goes crazy, it makes me supersitions.  Is it because I tapped the screen 7 times? was it that extra cpu of coffee?
Oct 21 00:41:38 <jettero> is it my typing tonight?
Oct 21 00:42:18 <jettero> is it the whole app kill? or is it a per scene thing?
Oct 21 00:43:00 <Templarian1> If you close all the cards and it's not a headless app it dies when the last card is closed.
Oct 21 00:43:28 <Templarian1> The garbage collection on webOS needs work so those random stutters you may see (300ms), is caused by the GC and not technically your app.
Oct 21 00:44:52 <jettero> I like GC that uses ref counting better for that reason... but GC loops can be one well... I'll just wait patiently
Oct 21 00:45:52 <Templarian1> The GC should be in a low level priority... meh.
Oct 21 00:47:21 <Templarian1> Really though if you wanted you could write perfect JS and not need GC, but that isn't going to happen.
Oct 21 00:50:44 <playya_> vala uses refcounting for memory management
Oct 21 00:52:59 <jettero> I'm rather glad the days of malloc() and free() are over.  I wouldn't expect to have to do that in such a high level language as JS
Oct 21 00:53:05 <jettero> (or similar)
Oct 21 00:53:41 <jettero> (also, I still malloc() and free() when I'm down there...)
Oct 21 01:00:11 <Technobabble> would anyone like a parts pre?  i dropped one in the pool and just got a new one.  i have no use for it and i was wondering if someone else would
Oct 21 01:05:02 <jettero> the part I really want to be able to swap is the screen cover... but I'm under the impression it's very attached to the digitizer
Oct 21 01:05:06 <jettero> (sp?)
Oct 21 01:05:28 <en0x> ok
Oct 21 01:05:41 <en0x> what version of prl u have?
Oct 21 01:06:07 <en0x> i got 60655
Oct 21 01:08:41 <Templarian1> jettero: you still have to call "delete" on larger ram intenstive things.
Oct 21 01:10:01 <en0x> any1?
Oct 21 01:13:47 <jettero> what is "prl u have?"
Oct 21 01:13:51 <jettero> please use all the letters
Oct 21 01:14:32 <en0x> PRL
Oct 21 01:14:39 <en0x> preffered raming list
Oct 21 01:14:43 <en0x> in cdma phones
Oct 21 01:14:45 <Abyssul> roaming
Oct 21 01:14:49 <en0x> device info/more info
Oct 21 01:14:53 <en0x> bottom
Oct 21 01:14:58 <jettero> isn't that a regional thing?
Oct 21 01:15:04 <en0x> nah
Oct 21 01:16:19 <jettero> I appear to be on 60652
Oct 21 01:16:29 <en0x> old
Oct 21 01:16:32 <jettero> the PRL updater on the dialer didn't work for me, so I just called sprint
Oct 21 01:16:42 <en0x> it works after 1.2.0
Oct 21 01:17:05 <en0x> they fixed it
Oct 21 01:17:05 <jettero> why don't they just push those out?
Oct 21 01:17:05 <en0x> or they fixed it in 1.2.1
Oct 21 01:17:05 <en0x> something like tha
Oct 21 01:17:05 <en0x> t
Oct 21 01:17:05 <en0x> who knows
Oct 21 01:17:05 <en0x> :S
Oct 21 01:17:38 <Abyssul> 60655 here
Oct 21 01:17:40 <jettero> it says there's no update available
Oct 21 01:17:49 <jettero> doesn't seem fixed to me... I'll call sprint tomorrow
Oct 21 01:17:51 <en0x> what state?
Oct 21 01:17:54 <Abyssul> SC
Oct 21 01:17:55 <jettero> MI
Oct 21 01:17:59 <en0x> MA here
Oct 21 01:18:15 <jettero> sya I've never seen one of those work.  I think sprint is kinda half-assed in MI
Oct 21 01:18:20 <jettero> (not just on pre)
Oct 21 01:19:55 <en0x> well
Oct 21 01:19:59 <en0x> anyway i like sprint
Oct 21 01:20:00 <en0x> ;D
Oct 21 01:20:25 <Templarian1> (jettero probably does also since he lives in MI)
Oct 21 01:20:25 <en0x> i had nextel/att/tmobile/cingular/att/verion/sprint
Oct 21 01:20:37 <en0x> i had verizon for 2 hrs
Oct 21 01:20:37 <en0x> ;)
Oct 21 01:21:53 <en0x> so far i'm so happy with sprint
Oct 21 01:22:04 <en0x> only the thing that pisses me off is cdma
Oct 21 01:22:12 <en0x> so i cant use my phone in europe
Oct 21 01:22:13 <en0x> :(
Oct 21 01:22:19 <rwhitby> Technobabble: I'd love a parts Pre.
Oct 21 01:22:22 <rwhitby> Technobabble: how much?
Oct 21 01:22:30 <Technobabble> probably just shipping
Oct 21 01:22:40 <Technobabble> it was under water for about 10 minutes
Oct 21 01:22:46 <Templarian1> en0x: where do you go in europe you could just get one of those cheap ones.
Oct 21 01:22:51 <Technobabble> so i'm not sure how much use you'll get out of it, screen still works though
Oct 21 01:23:16 <rwhitby> Technobabble: have you tried rinsing with pure alcohol and then leaving to dry?
Oct 21 01:23:19 <en0x> Templarian1: poland mostly
Oct 21 01:23:22 <en0x> my home country
Oct 21 01:23:23 <Technobabble> no
Oct 21 01:23:28 <Technobabble> denatured?
Oct 21 01:23:29 <en0x> i usually buy prepaid there
Oct 21 01:23:40 <Technobabble> i can get me a whole gallon of that shit at home depot
Oct 21 01:23:42 <en0x> and i have unlocked SE
Oct 21 01:23:43 <en0x> :)
Oct 21 01:23:48 <rwhitby> Technobabble: anything that evaporates without leaving a residue
Oct 21 01:24:14 <rwhitby> Technobabble: open it up, rinse, leave to dry
Oct 21 01:24:35 <rwhitby> Technobabble: if that fails, I'll buy it from you.
Oct 21 01:24:47 <Technobabble> http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhb/R-100139444/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Oct 21 01:24:50 <Technobabble> think that'd work?
Oct 21 01:25:05 <rwhitby> Technobabble: google it - there's lots of sites that talk about it.
Oct 21 01:25:50 <Technobabble> well either way, i wanna give it to someone who'll do more good with the parts than i would
Oct 21 01:25:57 <rwhitby> dunno what you call it there, we call it isopropyl alcohol here
Oct 21 01:26:09 <Technobabble> 'cause all i'll end up doing is taking it apart and just stareing at the parts
Oct 21 01:26:15 <Templarian1> (same thing in the states rwhitby)
Oct 21 01:26:16 <jettero> no no, I love sprint.  I jus tthink they're a little half assed
Oct 21 01:26:28 <rwhitby> Technobabble: I will use the qwerty keyboard in my Pre transplant, and will use the rest to try and find serial and jtag ports.
Oct 21 01:26:28 <jettero> all carriers suck.  You have to pick the suck that sucks least for you
Oct 21 01:26:55 <rwhitby> Technobabble: how long ago was it dunked?
Oct 21 01:27:00 <Technobabble> bout 10 minutes
Oct 21 01:27:06 <rwhitby> (cause you want to stop rusting asap)
Oct 21 01:27:11 <Technobabble> but i took the battery out ASAP and dried it out as best i could
Oct 21 01:27:15 <en0x> jettero: right
Oct 21 01:27:20 <Templarian1> jettero: a little, they called me the other day to see if I wanted to upgrade my package... I have the highest one... turns out they can't see customer details / current package till after they call.
Oct 21 01:27:30 <rwhitby> Technobabble: yep, open it, rinse it, dry it.  There's a reasonable chance it might work.
Oct 21 01:27:43 <Technobabble> it's been 3 days, but i'll try the alcohol thing
Oct 21 01:27:51 <rwhitby> oh, three days ago?
Oct 21 01:27:52 <Technobabble> i wanna try to get some pics out of it if possible
Oct 21 01:28:17 <rwhitby> might have started rusting by now if water still in it
Oct 21 01:28:19 <jettero> I have friends who specialize in PDAs, iPods phones...
Oct 21 01:28:33 <jettero> they have a business that people send things to from all over ...
Oct 21 01:28:41 <Technobabble> i doubt there's water still in it, it's still taken apart
Oct 21 01:28:46 <jettero> I don't think they'd try to get the pictures though.  they kinda rofl water damage
Oct 21 01:28:57 <rwhitby> Technobabble: water in the connectors and stuff
Oct 21 01:29:13 <Technobabble> i blew it out with my air nozzel first thing
Oct 21 01:29:18 <rwhitby> e.g. keyboard to main board connector
Oct 21 01:29:28 <Technobabble> oh, yeah probably
Oct 21 01:29:36 <Technobabble> idk, either way, i have a new one and this one's up for parts
Oct 21 01:29:49 <Technobabble> if you put it to good use, i'll donate it to fight the good fight
Oct 21 01:30:05 <rwhitby> Technobabble: ok, I'll take it, will pay shipping, and also some extra for your trouble.
Oct 21 01:30:18 <Technobabble> k, msg me your addr
Oct 21 01:30:55 <rwhitby> Technobabble: see /msg
Oct 21 01:31:00 <Templarian1> rwhitby: if can when you are done and only have the case fill it with something and video tape it skipping across a lake.
Oct 21 01:31:26 <Technobabble> lol
Oct 21 01:31:45 <rwhitby> Technobabble: did you get the /msg ?
Oct 21 01:31:52 <Technobabble> yeah
Oct 21 01:32:15 <Templarian1> If not only a year and i'll do it with my real one screen on and flash at night, hopefully it looks cool.
Oct 21 01:38:46 <egaudet> google down?  runnn
Oct 21 01:39:33 <Templarian1> egaudet: that's not possible.
Oct 21 01:41:33 <egaudet> honestly, I don't think I've searched the web without google for quite some time, I feel so lost :P
Oct 21 01:42:02 <egaudet> dare I try bing
Oct 21 01:42:07 <Templarian1> You can just bing it.
Oct 21 01:42:09 <zsoc> google is pretty evil
Oct 21 01:43:11 <Templarian1> zsoc: this channel is logged, Google heard you.
Oct 21 01:43:40 <zsoc> Templarian1, that's ok, they don't know who I am in this iteration ;)
Oct 21 01:44:22 <egaudet> haha you said "they don't know"...
Oct 21 01:44:33 <egaudet> they know...
Oct 21 01:44:42 * zsoc changes his nick and uses tor to reconnect to freenode
Oct 21 01:45:12 <Templarian1> It's futile, they know everything.
Oct 21 01:45:36 * zsoc wonders how many tor exit nodes google runs
Oct 21 01:46:16 <Templarian1> Also remember google voice, it can track phones now also.
Oct 21 01:46:48 * Templarian1 was actually just kidding, but the more he thinks about it the more it seems very plasuable.
Oct 21 01:47:15 <zsoc> Google Voice also transcribes your calls and voicemails :P
Oct 21 01:47:43 <zsoc> Scary thing is, if they offered a free 'google phone' with service in exchange for all of your privacy, tons of people would still use it
Oct 21 01:47:53 <zsoc> But, waaaaay off topic. Sorry.
Oct 21 01:47:53 <Technobabble> that's scary
Oct 21 01:48:19 <Templarian1> (I would probably sign up, they probably know it all already)
Oct 21 01:58:56 <Technobabble> uh oh
Oct 21 02:01:36 <Technobabble> okay, so if you put the battery from a phone that had been previously submerged in water, it'll cause your phone to continually reboot
Oct 21 02:01:40 <Technobabble> so don't do that
Oct 21 02:27:41 <freakout> oh good god
Oct 21 02:27:46 <freakout> jwz whines again
Oct 21 02:28:11 <freakout> and switches *to an iphone*
Oct 21 02:28:19 <freakout> i mean, friggin' hell
Oct 21 02:28:34 <freakout> he bitches about Palm's developer policies and then switches to the most dracoinian distributor out there?
Oct 21 02:28:41 <freakout> NUTCASE
Oct 21 02:28:52 <Templarian1> He just wanted attention.
Oct 21 02:31:09 <freakout> Templarian1: no kidding
Oct 21 02:31:19 <freakout> Templarian1: like a toddler throwing tantrums
Oct 21 02:31:29 <thatdude> fuck is jwz?
Oct 21 02:31:36 <Templarian1> (I have no idea)
Oct 21 02:31:51 <thatdude> beats me
Oct 21 02:33:31 <freakout> jwz is a developer
Oct 21 02:33:34 <freakout> a good one
Oct 21 02:33:54 <freakout> but also a freaking idiot
Oct 21 02:34:07 <freakout> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Zawinski
Oct 21 02:35:12 <zsoc> I just nominated that article for speedy deletion citing WP:NO
Oct 21 02:35:46 <thatdude> lol
Oct 21 02:36:27 <thatdude> I actually checked his blog, if you need to be entertain check... http://jwz.livejournal.com/1108212.html
Oct 21 02:37:21 <thatdude> "Palm's developer relations is that they are setting up a closed ecosystem, and Apple is even worse than Palm in that regard. (And while Palm is also slow and unresponsive to respond to developers, Apple is, again, even worse.)" --Enough said... he goes and get an iPhone.
Oct 21 02:37:28 <rwhitby> hey, but he has a cool front door that phones you when someone is there ...
Oct 21 02:37:56 <Templarian1> (my eyes are bleeding... he's definately a developer).
Oct 21 02:38:59 <zsoc> rwhitby, and I have a front door I can unlock from my cell phone, so what? :>
Oct 21 02:39:42 <zsoc> At first that nomination was a joke.. but the more I look at the article...
Oct 21 02:39:54 <rwhitby> Templarian1: the blog looks good under UV light in the nightclub ..
Oct 21 02:40:10 <thatdude> lol
Oct 21 02:41:41 <Templarian1> lol
Oct 21 02:42:16 <bpadalino> he is a very confusing guy
Oct 21 02:43:42 <thatdude> http://www.jwz.org/hacks/
Oct 21 02:44:35 <rwhitby> he has valid points in the latest blog entry.
Oct 21 02:44:53 <Templarian1> Of course webOS is far from perfect.
Oct 21 02:45:23 <Templarian1> But as a developer he should know it takes time for new OS's to get their berrings.
Oct 21 02:45:36 <thatdude> What people tend to not recognize that the iPhone is ahead 3 years compare to the Pre.
Oct 21 02:45:56 <Templarian1> thatdude: who doesn't recognize that... hehe.
Oct 21 02:47:05 <thatdude> Templarian1: Gimps I say!
Oct 21 02:48:39 <thatdude> Developers can't design for sh!t
Oct 21 02:48:52 <egaudet> what did you just say
Oct 21 02:49:28 <thatdude> egaudet: You heard me
Oct 21 02:49:28 <Templarian1> thatdude: Sure they can. They just make medeocure developers.
Oct 21 02:49:40 <Templarian1> I
Oct 21 02:49:51 <Templarian1> I've never once seen a Guru developer that can design though.
Oct 21 02:50:14 <Templarian1> (or have any eye for design in life / art / graphical.
Oct 21 02:50:20 <Templarian1> )
Oct 21 02:50:29 * thatdude agrees with Templarian1
Oct 21 02:50:56 <thatdude> black and white or black or neon is their color of choice
Oct 21 02:50:59 <egaudet> design is a waste of THEIR time :P
Oct 21 02:51:35 <egaudet> it's proper time management
Oct 21 02:51:56 <Templarian1> Black and white always works good. :), but then again look at the Preware icon that's nice and the colabration between two devs. hehe.
Oct 21 02:52:39 <thatdude> Templarian1: I like the design of Preware
Oct 21 02:53:15 <thatdude> Templarian1: The first thing I said to myself... nice logo.
Oct 21 02:53:40 <Templarian1> Thanks.
Oct 21 02:54:23 <thatdude> Templarian1: Who idea was it to change the terminal icon and what reason. I would prefer the old one; just my choice.
Oct 21 02:54:56 <Templarian1> That was back when we were unifiying the webOS-internals projects icons.
Oct 21 02:55:06 <Templarian1> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Icons
Oct 21 02:55:35 <thatdude> Templarian1: Yeah that came to min
Oct 21 02:55:56 <thatdude> Templarian1: You made the patch icons, they are great.
Oct 21 02:57:58 <Templarian1> thatdude: nah, oil did that, I made all the small icons and most of the random other icons on the ice.
Oct 21 02:59:57 <Templarian1> (the actual large patch was me though)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 21 02:59:59 2009