**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 25 02:59:56 2009 Oct 25 03:00:11 it says patching file a bunch of times Oct 25 03:00:25 thats exactly what it says? Oct 25 03:00:25 xD Oct 25 03:01:05 hckyplayer024: ok, to fix it you need to change or remove or replace a bunch of things Oct 25 03:01:20 then it says the next patch would create the file /usr/palm/frameworks/mojo/submissions/200.18/templates/kbsector/char.html, which already exists! Assurme -R [n] Oct 25 03:01:37 yeah i figured Oct 25 03:01:46 i have terminal up and am logged into root Oct 25 03:02:03 hckyplayer024: take note of all the files that report the Assume -R Oct 25 03:02:12 only that one Oct 25 03:02:28 hckyplayer024: remove that file and try again Oct 25 03:02:37 oh wow actually there are like 5 of them Oct 25 03:02:42 delete all those files? Oct 25 03:03:07 hckyplayer024: well, check in the Doctor first to see if they should be there or not Oct 25 03:03:16 lol Oct 25 03:03:46 so I have to extract webos doctor and go into that directory? Oct 25 03:05:02 hckyplayer024: I don't personally know if those files are meant to be there in normal webOS, or if they are added by the virtual keyboard patch Oct 25 03:05:41 hckyplayer024: the way that you can determine that is to unpack the files in the webOS Doctor jar file and look in the rootfs to see if they should be there or not Oct 25 03:05:58 i see, will do rwhitby Oct 25 03:06:03 thanks Oct 25 03:06:24 hckyplayer024: alternatively, you can look in the patch source file and see if it creates them or patches them Oct 25 03:06:39 is there anything in specific that is known to cause problems with webos thinking it needs to update Oct 25 03:07:25 this is the first time its happened to me, earlier today i got the message that there was an update and I left my phone on the touchstone, when I got back it was 'updated' to 1.2.1 when it was already at 1.2.1 Oct 25 03:07:39 hckyplayer024: my untested theory is things that run ipkg install instead of ipkg -o /var install Oct 25 03:08:30 okay Oct 25 03:10:16 This is some beautiful code in the default Music Player: http://pastie.org/668626 Oct 25 03:10:28 so do I need to webos doctor to prevent this from happening again? Oct 25 03:12:27 hckyplayer024: do you have command line access? Oct 25 03:12:31 yeah Oct 25 03:13:18 that code isn't redundant at all Oct 25 03:13:54 it could be a volatile and change between those two lines ;-) Oct 25 03:14:10 lol Oct 25 03:14:28 so the "startup scene" puff suggested a while ago Oct 25 03:14:46 ive got it setup to help along with people actually reading it Oct 25 03:14:54 by not showing the continue button for 5 seconds Oct 25 03:15:23 oil: first run for each new version? Oct 25 03:15:32 first run ever Oct 25 03:15:35 first new version run Oct 25 03:15:44 with different messages, etc Oct 25 03:16:14 sounds perfect Oct 25 03:16:25 rwhitby: so how do I prevent the updating from happening again? Oct 25 03:16:49 rwhitby: i just pushed the initial stuff if you wanna check it out Oct 25 03:17:12 oil: will do tonight (7 hours time( Oct 25 03:17:14 hrm, it would be good if preware did some caching... Oct 25 03:17:17 * rwhitby bbl Oct 25 03:17:25 would it? Oct 25 03:17:49 I can already see potential data use blowout on each load... Oct 25 03:18:23 you can set it to only update once daily Oct 25 03:18:29 or to only update manually Oct 25 03:18:31 Not sure of the innards... but can't the feeds be compressed over the wire, or are they already? Oct 25 03:18:39 they are already Oct 25 03:18:41 and ah ok Oct 25 03:18:44 updating is different from loading Oct 25 03:18:45 and another ok Oct 25 03:18:51 I mean when you first launch it Oct 25 03:18:52 it loads from the local files each start Oct 25 03:18:59 right Oct 25 03:19:00 go to the prefs Oct 25 03:19:08 its like the second option Oct 25 03:19:21 Checking Oct 25 03:19:27 nice. Oct 25 03:19:30 you can also flip off some feeds so you're not downloading whatever you dont want Oct 25 03:19:30 my bad :$ Oct 25 03:19:34 like, themes for example Oct 25 03:20:26 Is it normal that I've installed the RPN calc app, and when clicking Installed Packages, it is listed as "Unknown"? Oct 25 03:20:46 how did you install it? Oct 25 03:20:53 through Preware Oct 25 03:21:03 it shouldn't be unknown if its in the feed Oct 25 03:21:12 hrm, bug. Oct 25 03:21:16 maybe he removed it from the feed, and so now we don't know what type it is Oct 25 03:21:22 when did you install it? Oct 25 03:21:51 i do know hes planning to sell it in the catalog for like $15 Oct 25 03:22:07 so im not surprised he would remove it from teh free homebrew stuff Oct 25 03:22:07 Well, there's two things.... first perhaps it should store metainfo on installed pkgs locally... Oct 25 03:22:19 secondly, other metainfo like install date Oct 25 03:22:32 some packages have an installed date Oct 25 03:22:34 much like pkgsrc, or apt, or portage does Oct 25 03:22:43 it all depends on what i get from the service Oct 25 03:22:48 it only stores some information Oct 25 03:22:52 not everything in the feed Oct 25 03:22:55 for installed packages Oct 25 03:22:58 but an install date doesn' rely on a feed... Oct 25 03:23:04 right Oct 25 03:23:06 the device would know/store that Oct 25 03:23:11 im just saying Oct 25 03:23:12 if its there Oct 25 03:23:13 it shows it Oct 25 03:23:15 its not always there Oct 25 03:23:40 ok, so something, on occasion, stores date locally upon install, but not for all? Oct 25 03:23:51 (again, not sure of the backend) Oct 25 03:23:57 its ipkg in the back end Oct 25 03:24:08 ah, so it should be an ipkg function Oct 25 03:24:41 from what ive seen Oct 25 03:24:51 i only see an installed date when i install a package with palm-install Oct 25 03:24:56 when im programming Oct 25 03:24:58 Installed: 10/24/09 Oct 25 03:25:15 i rarely see it for packages installed through preware Oct 25 03:25:22 hrm, perhaps something else too... region-aware date/time formats? Oct 25 03:25:31 yeah, thats on the todo Oct 25 03:25:40 we here do sane dd/mm/yy ;) Oct 25 03:25:44 *gdr* Oct 25 03:25:45 yeah, i know Oct 25 03:25:54 at the time, it was only in america, so it wasn't exactly high priority Oct 25 03:25:58 like, say, dependencies Oct 25 03:26:03 heheheh Oct 25 03:26:15 all good, I'm not meaning to bash, just contributing. Oct 25 03:26:34 didn't think you were bashing it Oct 25 03:26:39 k Oct 25 03:27:04 he's just being careful oil, we all know how sensitive you are :p Oct 25 03:27:11 Well I think it should record that meta info no matter what the source... and I think that should include the category and feed it came from, instead of referencing online Oct 25 03:27:38 well the feeds are always downloaded to the pre Oct 25 03:27:43 Are we even running something to log "feature reqs" or design changes or whatever? Oct 25 03:27:56 I think I saw one for internals patches... but yeah Oct 25 03:27:58 as long as its in those feeds that are downloaded, preware can get to the info without using any data Oct 25 03:28:31 i've got a todo list that i sometimes put stuff on Oct 25 03:28:32 oil: yeah I get that... but as discovered here, I install, it gets pulled, I lose that metadata that was referenced elsewhere instead of in a local store Oct 25 03:28:49 well, it would have been stored locally if it wasn't removed from the feed Oct 25 03:29:17 i think storing all that data twice seems like overkill Oct 25 03:29:27 on the oft chance that its pulled from the feed Oct 25 03:29:55 maybe thats just me Oct 25 03:30:04 I disgree. I think it should be stored locally, at install time. No other pkg manager I know of works any other way, for this reason Oct 25 03:30:15 data is stored, just not all the extra junk Oct 25 03:30:31 The feeds that are dl'd should only be a catalog at install time, not beyond that, I think Oct 25 03:31:16 what if you install a package some other way, not through preware Oct 25 03:31:20 I can build firefox from pkgsrc, and then it can disappear from the NetBSD pkgsrc repository, but when I run pkg_info it'll still tell me all pertinent metainfo Oct 25 03:31:40 how would preware get the extra data? Oct 25 03:31:46 well, I gues I'm saying this should all be done by ipkg... or whatever pkg manager is used Oct 25 03:31:50 ipkg is storing some metadata, just not the extra stuff we added Oct 25 03:31:59 I'm guessing here, but Preware is a frontend more than anything right? Oct 25 03:32:00 we added a bunch of stuff to the source field Oct 25 03:32:07 descriptions, screenshot urls, etc Oct 25 03:32:14 they're all in that one field that is never stored by ipkg Oct 25 03:32:23 right, it just talks to the ipkg service Oct 25 03:32:36 thats all it does Oct 25 03:32:37 I need to understand the structure of it all a bit more. Oct 25 03:32:40 yeah, ok Oct 25 03:32:40 when you install packages that modify the top bar and launcher do you have to reset the phone for it to display Oct 25 03:32:49 so this "feature" really should be directed to the ipkg peeps Oct 25 03:32:52 sryan, a luna restart is probably all you need Oct 25 03:33:06 lingfish: well, ipkg is already on the phone Oct 25 03:33:08 its not something we add Oct 25 03:33:11 we just add feeds to it Oct 25 03:33:19 Who makes ipkg? Ah.. its a Palm builtin thing? Oct 25 03:33:26 idk Oct 25 03:33:36 i mean, i know its already on the phone Oct 25 03:33:39 i dont know who makes it Oct 25 03:33:44 i dont think its palm though Oct 25 03:34:02 yeah ok.. so the builtin manger workhorse is ipkg, and that's part of Palm's core codebase Oct 25 03:34:11 right Oct 25 03:34:19 its how they install packages through their catalog, etc Oct 25 03:34:36 gotcha Oct 25 03:34:47 so what extra local data logging does Preware do? Oct 25 03:35:00 what do you mean? Oct 25 03:35:16 Hard to explain, lemme think Oct 25 03:35:35 ok... I'm looking at an installed apps info Oct 25 03:36:01 installed, installed size, ID, type etc... they're all standard db fields that ipkg may or may not populate? Oct 25 03:36:01 right Oct 25 03:36:12 right Oct 25 03:36:44 I assume there's an API to populate that.. so if stuff is missing, why not get Preware (the "wrapper" if you will) to populate it? Oct 25 03:37:12 i dont know what you're asking Oct 25 03:37:13 lingfish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipkg Oct 25 03:37:22 it's basically a fork of debian's dpkg Oct 25 03:37:23 oil: stop LunaSysMgr && start LunaSysMgr? Oct 25 03:37:29 sryan idk, search the wiki Oct 25 03:37:34 rick_home: ah nice, thanks Oct 25 03:38:07 oil: I mean... if ipkg didn't populate the category (like it hasn't here), have Preware check that, post-install, and populate it from the feed... ie. local metadata Oct 25 03:38:18 if ipkg populates, all good Oct 25 03:38:37 there is really 2 local stores Oct 25 03:38:49 there is the "status" file with limited info of what is installed Oct 25 03:38:57 then there is the feeds which are downloaded and stored Oct 25 03:38:59 it does check both Oct 25 03:39:05 if something is installed, and in the feed, it gets all teh data Oct 25 03:39:23 the problem is when something is installed, and removed from the feed, or not in teh feed to begin with and installed in some other matter Oct 25 03:39:31 and status is a Preware-gen'd file/DB? Oct 25 03:39:39 or are they both ipkg/Palm done? Oct 25 03:39:40 no Oct 25 03:39:47 everything is created and done by ipkg Oct 25 03:40:13 preware doesn't store anything on its own Oct 25 03:40:15 ok... then I'm suggesting Preware does one too... or has the capability to reverse-populate at install time Oct 25 03:40:34 y'know just some little post-install work Oct 25 03:40:40 the problem is if something isn't installed right through preware Oct 25 03:40:44 it would be the same problem Oct 25 03:40:49 there are other app using the ipkg service Oct 25 03:40:53 all the catalog apps Oct 25 03:40:55 Agreed... and hence not Preware's problem ;) Oct 25 03:40:56 anything you palm-install Oct 25 03:42:17 It just seems that Preware can fetch the additional info at runtime and installtime (it has the feed), so why not have it throw it in ... if something else was used, meh, tough Oct 25 03:42:37 It's like... I could use RPM to install a pkg, or I could use apt (more like a frontend to RPM) Oct 25 03:42:44 or s@apt@dpkg@ Oct 25 03:42:47 I can't remember which Oct 25 03:42:59 Ideally, you only use one frontend Oct 25 03:43:07 not on the pre Oct 25 03:43:13 you would be using 2 Oct 25 03:43:16 preware and palms catalog Oct 25 03:43:22 Understood Oct 25 03:43:51 My point still stands... I reckon as an added piece of awesome, Preware could do it. ;) Oct 25 03:44:21 still just seems like it would get in the way Oct 25 03:44:29 lets say you install something with preware Oct 25 03:44:34 and it stores the extra data Oct 25 03:44:38 and you remove the app with the catalog Oct 25 03:44:43 or some other piece of software Oct 25 03:44:51 yep Oct 25 03:45:08 what im really trying to get away from, is having preware store its own database Oct 25 03:45:13 I see your point, and hence the Preware-only local "additional" store. Oct 25 03:45:24 i mean, so you install something and its removed from the feed it was installed from Oct 25 03:45:25 yeah, ok... and I'm saying to do it hehehhe Oct 25 03:45:41 do you really need an icon or screenshots for it? Oct 25 03:45:48 not really, you've already got it installed Oct 25 03:46:01 Well no, but the frontend should still be able to tell me long after the app is gone Oct 25 03:46:37 It's the same as .... receive an SMS, internally the phone remembers the number and addrbook name... you delete addr book entry... you'd expect the SMS reading app to still show you a name Oct 25 03:46:49 do you? Oct 25 03:46:56 you deleted it from the address book Oct 25 03:46:57 I would, yes. Oct 25 03:47:05 the lookup table is gone Oct 25 03:47:29 my last phone certainly went back to showing hte number if you removed the address book entry Oct 25 03:47:30 its a state thing... its on my device, it shouldn't rely on a data structure beyond the device... Oct 25 03:47:34 granted, it was a crappy phone Oct 25 03:47:36 when I'm looking up info Oct 25 03:48:00 but it does Oct 25 03:48:05 it relies on that extra data Oct 25 03:48:13 at install time. Oct 25 03:48:13 well Oct 25 03:48:14 it doesnt Oct 25 03:48:17 that should be the ONLY time Oct 25 03:48:21 it has enough iformation to do whatever with it Oct 25 03:48:27 you just want all the extra stuff Oct 25 03:48:30 thats only in the feed Oct 25 03:48:47 well if its presented to me, yeah, I want the extra stuff heh Oct 25 03:48:54 its open source, you're more then welcome to write all this stuff into it Oct 25 03:48:54 not "invalid or missing" stuff Oct 25 03:49:00 k Oct 25 03:49:44 well, apologies if I pissed you off, just debating ;) gotta run down the shops Oct 25 03:49:49 you didn't Oct 25 03:50:30 one last thing... in the palm datastore... Oct 25 03:50:40 is there a field for category etc? Oct 25 03:50:51 that comes from the feed Oct 25 03:51:04 yep ok. Oct 25 03:51:06 bbk Oct 25 04:02:30 when was rod last online? Oct 25 04:03:00 how can I copy a directory from my computer to /usr/palm/applications/ Oct 25 04:03:28 its a directory from webOS Doctor unpacked Oct 25 04:07:26 ~seen rwhitby Oct 25 04:07:27 rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals #nslu2-linux. Has said a total of 734 messages. Is idling for 50m 15s, last said: 'oil: will do tonight (7 hours time('. Oct 25 04:08:01 sryan: you can use webos quick install Oct 25 04:08:17 or you can install the optware packages on your pre and use winscp to copy it over Oct 25 04:08:34 or you can copy it into /media/internal as a usb drive and them use terminal to copy it to where you want. Oct 25 04:08:52 ok thanks Oct 25 04:51:05 Easy quesiton if anybody is around. There was talk of an app to launch a bunch of other apps with one touch. Anybody remember the name? I've been searching but I can't seem to find it. Oct 25 04:55:23 dunno Oct 25 04:57:47 sadness. I know I've seen it discussed, but everything I try searching for returns 5000 hits that have nothing to do with it. Oct 25 04:58:22 rwhitby: you are really abusing the term patch here Oct 25 04:58:58 a patch in no context is a complete replacement Oct 25 04:59:04 if i get a hole in my pants Oct 25 04:59:18 and i put a small section of fabric over the hole Oct 25 04:59:21 that is patch Oct 25 04:59:27 if i buy new pants Oct 25 04:59:30 its a replacement Oct 25 04:59:33 not a patch Oct 25 04:59:37 same with code Oct 25 05:00:18 replacing the entire object with a different version is not a patch Oct 25 05:00:58 so Oct 25 05:01:00 bout that wirc Oct 25 05:01:41 rwhitby: why cant we add an option to the feed like: "PalmCode: True" (name dont matter to me) Oct 25 05:01:45 and if that is true Oct 25 05:01:52 then preware shows another options Oct 25 05:01:54 option Oct 25 05:02:02 sorta like installed packages Oct 25 05:02:08 but a list of packages that touch palm files Oct 25 05:02:27 so that is clear to the user things that might need to be removed/reinstalled on a webos update Oct 25 05:02:54 fairly good idea? Oct 25 05:03:23 cause its pretty silly to lump a service with patches just because it will get overwritten by palm files Oct 25 05:04:02 oil: what about wirc? Oct 25 05:04:43 trips all over, right? Oct 25 05:04:51 yeah im back home Oct 25 05:04:53 :) Oct 25 05:05:38 but dont forget im on the opposite coast as you... and im in a less productive state that you right now ;) Oct 25 05:06:26 1am? Oct 25 05:06:26 psh Oct 25 05:06:34 yup Oct 25 05:06:43 i get some of my best coding done at 1am Oct 25 05:06:46 lol Oct 25 05:06:53 i get my best coding done early in the morning Oct 25 05:07:02 i get good ideas tat this time Oct 25 05:07:13 but i can focus long enough to actually code Oct 25 05:07:16 typically Oct 25 05:07:32 well not since i've been back at home Oct 25 05:07:57 if this was a couple of month ago and i was in my apartment with a blunt :D i would have had this service done by now ;) Oct 25 05:08:05 lol Oct 25 05:08:33 but i think im gonna be staring my PhD work soon Oct 25 05:08:55 so bluntage at night will resume again Oct 25 05:10:23 oil: did you have a question/comment about wirc/wircd? Oct 25 05:12:38 just when you're going to be gettin the service started Oct 25 05:20:25 i don't have much more to add to wirc until there is a service Oct 25 06:02:24 PuffTheMagic_: if you look at the discussion between greg_roll and I after you left, you'll see that we decided that his work is a combination of a new service (which doesn't touch any Palm files) and a patch to palm files. Oct 25 06:02:30 one will depend on the other Oct 25 06:19:14 rwhitby: With the current state of your dependency handling in 0.9.5, will removing a package with a dependency automatically remove the dependency as well? I realize that most package managers handle dependencies one-way, but it would be a great feature to check if there are any other packages that depend on it, and remove it if not. Oct 25 06:20:18 VeeDubb65-Steve: if package A requires package B to be installed for A to operate (e.g. A has a dependency on B), then Preware will not allow you to remove B until you have removed A (and it will tell you that you need to remove A first). Oct 25 06:21:26 right. My question is, if you remove A, and no other package depends on B, will B be uninstalled automatically? Oct 25 06:22:25 I'm guessing the answer is "no" because even apt won't do that, but it seems like it would be a good feature on an embeded system where you would have a minimal number of packages that share dependencies. Oct 25 06:24:57 No, B will not be uninstalled automatically. Note that ipkg does have the ability to distinguish between packages that have been intentionally installed by the user, versus packages that are installed as a dependency, but we can't take advantage of this in the current generation of ipkgservice - we may well be able to do this in the C rewrite. Oct 25 06:26:03 (the reason is that if we allowed ipkg to handle dependencies automatically, instead of intercepting them and forcibly installing them in the right order with Preware, then the post-install script for the dependency won't get run (since the -o /var option disables that). Oct 25 06:26:51 I can see that causing major problems with certain packages. Oct 25 06:32:40 lingfish: the installed-date and installed-size for installed packages should be in the ipkg database. Oct 25 06:33:19 lingfish: cat /var/usr/lib/ipkg/status will tell you what ipkg stores for installed packages, and /var/usr/lib/ipkg/lists/* is what is downloaded from the feeds. Oct 25 06:33:19 its not for the majority of them Oct 25 06:33:50 oil: that's weird - if that's the case we need to fix that in the C rewrite of the service Oct 25 06:41:06 http://i35.tinypic.com/eq5fnt.png Oct 25 06:52:13 command to add a header to a quilt patch, is that quilt header -e Oct 25 06:52:14 ? Oct 25 06:52:26 suddenly having a brain-fart Oct 25 07:09:41 oil: that's an excellent splash screen. Oct 25 07:09:56 VeeDubb65-Steve: I usually just edit them by hand :-) Oct 25 07:11:13 * rwhitby bbl Oct 25 07:22:26 oil: your splash screen could use a bit of jazzing up Oct 25 07:22:41 oil: turn it into a Star Wars crawl. With music. Oct 25 07:24:31 X/fbdev? Oct 25 07:24:42 nevermind Oct 25 07:24:49 how do you animate it? Oct 25 07:25:01 (thought this was mer for a second) Oct 25 07:26:52 im definately not setting it to starwars music, nor having it automatically scroll Oct 25 07:26:53 lol Oct 25 07:32:53 oil: awwwwww Oct 25 07:33:31 But that would be infuriating to the end-users Oct 25 07:33:48 especially if you made them sit through it Every. Single. Launch. xD Oct 25 07:34:11 the button at hte bottom does only appear after 5 seconds Oct 25 07:34:24 i may even up it to give them enough time to realize there is no escape and begin reading Oct 25 07:34:32 lol Oct 25 10:17:30 Anybody around? Oct 25 10:17:46 no Oct 25 10:17:50 lol Oct 25 10:18:05 I just found a really interesting entry in /etc/palm/luna.conf Oct 25 10:18:10 [KeepAliveUntilMemPressure] Oct 25 10:18:10 Applications=com.palm.app.browser Oct 25 10:18:45 Could that explain some the apparant memory leak issues with the browser and the apparant reduced battery life when the battery is left open? Oct 25 10:39:11 battery or browser? Oct 25 10:39:21 doesn't seem t be related to pm Oct 25 10:41:39 sorry Oct 25 10:41:45 when the browser is left open. Oct 25 10:42:05 People have been complaining that when the browser is left open in the background the battery life goes down. Oct 25 10:44:12 wouldn't that be the data connection then? Oct 25 10:46:47 to be honest, I'm not sure. I'm just starting to figure out some of this luna stuff. My thought was that it's keeping luna from going to sleep at all while the browser is open, which would seriously kill the battery. It would be like running "no-doze for WebOS" Oct 25 10:47:53 sounds more to be like process manager Oct 25 10:47:58 management Oct 25 10:48:12 Entirely possible. Oct 25 10:48:19 if it's swapped out it can't be using ram (if ghere's swap) Oct 25 10:48:35 if it's not running it can't be using battery Oct 25 10:48:50 other than the ram usage and that's essentially constant Oct 25 10:48:54 alright, well, it was a thought. Oct 25 10:49:01 like I said, still figuring this stuff out. Oct 25 10:50:00 I mean to say is just because something is "running" in the backround does not mean it's running Oct 25 10:50:21 unless it's waking up on events/io or something Oct 25 10:51:02 considering its "keep alive until mem pressure" Oct 25 10:51:09 means it keeps it in memory till its needed Oct 25 10:51:17 eg, leaving it open and switching to mail and back = no reload Oct 25 10:51:20 if you leave it open too long Oct 25 10:51:24 teh card "dims" Oct 25 10:51:30 and must reload hte page when you activate it Oct 25 10:51:41 thats my guess Oct 25 10:51:48 ok, thanks. Oct 25 10:51:55 only a guess Oct 25 10:52:12 well, you're guess are probably more reliable than my theories. :) Oct 25 10:53:06 and it seems sporadic-ish when it will do the dimming/reload on activate thing Oct 25 10:54:20 I was just poking around looking because there was a discussion on battery life and keeping apps open, and there were several people who said that leaving the browser open causes major battery drain, which just seems odd to me. Oct 25 10:54:53 memory leaks I can understand, but significantly lower battery life because it's sitting in the background and not doing anything doesn't make much sense to me. Oct 25 13:00:35 has anyone dissected classic yet? how does it do graphics? Oct 25 13:52:32 oil: how are you up so damn early Oct 25 14:03:03 Morning Oct 25 15:51:29 Anyone have an idea how to add "Emergency Mode" hint text to the dialpad in the emergency dialer? Oct 25 15:55:04 probably would be a html or js edit no? Oct 25 15:55:12 .js Oct 25 16:02:10 a should be trivial except that my pre already says 'SOS mode only'... Oct 25 16:23:20 y0h Oct 25 16:23:23 whats good Oct 25 17:07:04 oc80z: the opposite of bad possibly? Oct 25 17:27:29 weird, we dont have a patch for increasing the vibrate length Oct 25 17:36:02 Abyssul: Oct 25 17:37:36 ? Oct 25 17:40:43 sorry, I have something for you Oct 25 17:40:46 a question Oct 25 17:49:16 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MIT_Open_Source_License_-_webOS-Patches Oct 25 17:49:25 Do you agree with that? I hope you say yes. ;) Oct 25 18:15:08 egaudet: ping Oct 25 18:15:14 Abyssul: ping Oct 25 19:10:17 egaudet, Abyssul, rwhitby: ping Oct 25 19:28:25 samk1: Oct 25 19:28:46 You know I am not being rude right? I am trying to get everything ironed out. Oct 25 19:29:18 dBsooner: um Oct 25 19:29:50 Your hostility is a turn off. AndI want to stay as far away as possible... Oct 25 19:30:15 I don't have hostility? Oct 25 19:30:41 I am so far from hostile right now it's not even funny. Oct 25 19:31:27 your latest post can be described as passive-aggressive Oct 25 19:32:21 How? Oct 25 19:33:57 I'm not going to continue arguing this. I asked Rod for the weekend to decide. Oct 25 19:34:49 what are we fighting about? Oct 25 19:34:49 argue, argue! Oct 25 19:34:52 That's fine, but please don't be so disrespectful to me in that thread. You blatantly accused me of not following copyrights. Which I did not like. Oct 25 19:35:21 I never stated I would disregard an author's wishes, that's just childesh. Oct 25 19:35:25 You declared that all patches were open source. Oct 25 19:35:31 No, I did not. Oct 25 19:36:02 *sigh* This is why I don't want to deal with you. Oct 25 19:36:24 I highly object to someone wanting to "close source" or "not redistribute" a patch file. It is all open source, that is the point of it. Oct 25 19:36:34 that is NOT decalring all patches are open source. Oct 25 19:36:49 That is YOU adding information into a sentence missing information. Oct 25 19:37:03 you said that authors would have to opt out Oct 25 19:37:06 Yes, I can see how it can be misconstrued. Oct 25 19:37:12 No, I did not. Oct 25 19:37:20 If you don't want your patch in the webOS-Patches feed, then i would explicitly state that in your original post where the patch file is discussed. Oct 25 19:37:28 I actually stated they DID have an opt out Oct 25 19:37:29 right there. Oct 25 19:37:49 and if they don't opt out? Oct 25 19:38:16 If they don't opt out of the MIT License, then there patches will be removed from the feed. Oct 25 19:38:16 what are you guys arguing about? Oct 25 19:38:35 Err, if they OPT OUT of it. Oct 25 19:38:45 and if they don't opt out? Oct 25 19:39:18 PreGame: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/210987-webos-patches-feed-submission-form-now-online.html Oct 25 19:39:27 If they agree their patches are licensed under the MIT License, then I can keep their patches in the feed with the attached license with there copyright at the top of the file. Oct 25 19:39:46 and if they don't opt out? Oct 25 19:40:06 Why do you keep asking that? Oct 25 19:40:17 because you're not answering it Oct 25 19:40:33 Opt out of what? Oct 25 19:41:21 you said that authors should explicitly state if they don't want to be included in the webos patches feed Oct 25 19:41:28 what if they don't? Oct 25 19:42:00 If they don't explicitly state they do not want to be included AND they don't explicitly state a license, then they will not be included in the feed. Oct 25 19:42:14 Their code will be considered closed source if it is only psoted on PreCentrao. Oct 25 19:42:32 Then they don't need to explicitly state anything Oct 25 19:42:35 s/psoted on PreCentrao./posted on PreCentral.net/ Oct 25 19:42:35 dBsooner meant: Their code will be considered closed source if it is only posted on PreCentral.net Oct 25 19:43:22 OK, well at the time of my original post, I was under the impression that any files posted to PreCentral.net were under the same policies as webos-internals. Oct 25 19:43:50 I have since been shown otherwise, so I have withdrawn my statement on that and stated the current policies. Oct 25 19:44:17 and you were saying that those patches would be included in the feed - which would be violating copyright Oct 25 19:44:17 is there an easy way to make a patch file on windows? Oct 25 19:44:27 No, I did not. Oct 25 19:44:45 we're done Oct 25 19:45:00 this was my original post: Oct 25 19:45:01 I feel it should be the responsibility of the developer to submit. That being said, I would say it would be ok to go ahead and submit it on behalf of the developer if a reasonable attempt had been made to get the dev to upload with no luck. Oct 25 19:45:01 If one is submitted on behalf, you must put a "Note to admins" saying who you are and that you submitted on behalf of. Oct 25 19:45:14 No where in there does it say anything about posting or precentral. Oct 25 19:45:34 That was simply directed towards those who have already submitted to gitorious or were on the wiki Oct 25 19:45:49 I know Craig and I know he would have contacted the user if they had posted to Precentral.net Oct 25 19:46:18 can you guys take this into PM? Oct 25 19:46:23 lawl Oct 25 19:46:30 whatts good?? Oct 25 19:47:52 If you want my opinion, I think you should package KeyToss keyword search as an application and close source it. That way you can keep it in the Preware feeds and not have to open source it. Oct 25 19:48:14 It's a great product and is much more deserving of application status with closed source licensing. Oct 25 19:49:04 But you wouldn't be able to use the GPL licensed AutoPatch technology and Emergency Patch Recovery. Oct 25 19:49:17 s/GPL/GNU GPL/ Oct 25 19:49:18 dBsooner meant: But you wouldn't be able to use the GNU GPL licensed AutoPatch technology and Emergency Patch Recovery. Oct 25 19:49:44 But you can easily make your own add/remove patching setup for it. Oct 25 19:51:36 Abyssul, you there? Oct 25 19:51:39 yep Oct 25 19:51:42 Cool! Oct 25 19:51:45 Did you get my link earlier? Oct 25 19:51:50 No Oct 25 19:51:59 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/MIT_Open_Source_License_-_webOS-Patches Oct 25 19:52:36 Can we license your patches under the MIT License, putting your name as the copyright holder? Oct 25 19:52:47 Of course Oct 25 19:52:53 Thank you sir. Oct 25 19:52:59 Would you mind if I put your real name? Oct 25 19:53:00 Arn't they already under this license? Oct 25 19:53:17 Abyssul, I am just "making sure". Oct 25 19:53:32 Is that a quote from a Palm official or rwhitby? lol Oct 25 19:53:34 Abyssul: but yes. Since you posted yours to the wiki, they are. Oct 25 19:53:38 which one? Oct 25 19:53:47 "making sure" Oct 25 19:53:49 lol Oct 25 19:54:05 Rod wants me to make sure all patches are licensed under the MIT License. Oct 25 19:54:11 Mmk Oct 25 19:54:19 So you had to add that to your submittal form? Oct 25 19:54:24 Yep Oct 25 20:10:35 * Abyssul is glad to be wanted. Oct 25 20:15:51 So... how is everyone? Oct 25 20:29:48 PuffTheMagic_:that was me not going to sleep yet, i just now woke up Oct 25 21:30:13 Anyone have an idea how to add "Emergency Mode" hint text to the dialpad in the emergency dialer? Oct 25 21:36:30 when having the update feeds set to manual in preware does it load all the package information afterwards or just the packages that were updated? Oct 25 21:36:41 It doesn't update any of them Oct 25 21:36:48 You have to tell it to update them Oct 25 21:37:47 yeah, after I load the program it loads the package information and when I update feeds it loads the package information again. i'm wondering if it's loading the same package information as before Oct 25 21:38:24 if so I should just have it update package information on startup Oct 25 21:38:36 err I mean update feeds :) Oct 25 21:44:13 samk1: got your email, will respond after my commute. we're still all good. Oct 25 21:56:37 * rwhitby bbl Oct 25 21:58:41 Morning Oct 25 22:02:39 Anyone here care to help me with some php? Oct 25 22:04:10 I can try Oct 25 22:06:18 how do commits to gitorious get on the patches feed? Oct 25 22:13:03 how do you PM someone Oct 25 22:13:28 /msg message here Oct 25 22:17:12 'sorry too many cards' .. if i ever go on a murderous rampage it will because of reading that Oct 25 22:17:41 i never get that Oct 25 22:18:03 Sometimes I get that message with only 2 cards open Oct 25 22:18:21 ive gotten it with a single card Oct 25 22:18:38 now i have three though Oct 25 22:19:06 synthmole: you clone the repo first, make your changes/add stuff, then git add, then git commit -m "message", then git push Oct 25 22:19:25 synthmole: but you have to be granted push access first. Oct 25 22:19:56 i do have push access and have pushed a patch yesterday. i've been away for a while so not clear on how stuff gets on preware Oct 25 22:20:58 synthmole: I have to add a Makefile for it Oct 25 22:21:31 synthmole: I will do it when I get back in a couple hours. I have to go replace a garbage disposal and faucet for a friend. Oct 25 22:22:04 ok. so i guess until now it was manually handled by you? Oct 25 22:27:03 synthmole: it has pretty much always been this way. egaudet was the one who made the build script though. I have taken over that part. Oct 25 22:27:55 just out of curiosity what os/distro do you guys use Oct 25 22:28:34 win 7 Oct 25 23:02:33 hah, i love craigslist. Oct 25 23:02:40 why Oct 25 23:03:01 all my old pc parts = instant money :D Oct 25 23:03:39 instant? Oct 25 23:04:45 meh, instant enough Oct 25 23:23:38 sryan: osx for front-end, windows (xp) and linux (headless ubuntu 8.04 LTS server) in virtualbox VMs. Oct 25 23:27:38 http://twitpic.com/myc2s Oct 25 23:27:44 oh, wrong channel Oct 25 23:27:45 again Oct 25 23:28:05 nice... uh.. hook Oct 25 23:33:08 haha Oct 26 01:05:24 evnin Oct 26 01:18:28 the pre needs threaded e-mail badly Oct 26 01:31:40 holy fak, I'm here Oct 26 01:31:51 and so's nobody else Oct 26 01:32:36 anyone know of a way I could wget a g++ compiler for webOs? Oct 26 01:38:44 ViMac: optware Oct 26 01:39:08 I installed dropbear and can ssh Oct 26 01:39:21 is there a compiler in optware somewhere? Oct 26 01:39:38 there are 1300+ linux command line applications in optwrae Oct 26 01:40:08 http://ipkg.nslu2-linux.org/feeds/optware/cs08q1armel/cross/unstable/ contains gcc 4.2.3 Oct 26 01:40:44 you may run out of space in /var installing it though, so you will want to have an alternate solution for /opt enabled Oct 26 01:41:06 you use ipkg-opt to install it Oct 26 01:41:22 so wget that url? Oct 26 01:41:51 I'm kinda stale with linux ism, (C# coder) Oct 26 01:42:03 ViMac: there are instructions on the wiki on how to install optware Oct 26 01:43:21 the other alternative is to use cross-compilation (which is what we do for optware packages and all current webos-internals architecture-specific packages) Oct 26 01:44:40 has anyone successfully ... ahem, gotten ahold of the microphone? Oct 26 01:46:25 does cross-compilation require you to have another linux distribution running? Oct 26 01:47:02 no, yes. Oct 26 01:48:19 :-/ this is gonna be effort Oct 26 01:48:31 actually not so much, I just need another box for debian Oct 26 01:48:39 anyone got a spare? Oct 26 01:50:49 define spare? Oct 26 01:51:18 joke Oct 26 01:51:26 I need another machine to run linux Oct 26 01:51:47 ViMac: never heard of virtualization eh? Oct 26 01:52:07 anything more lightweight than vmware? Oct 26 01:52:20 * Marajin shrugs. Oct 26 01:52:26 I use virtualbox because it's free and it works Oct 26 01:53:03 if your cpu/bios/etc are up to it you'll get hardware virtualization which helps anyway Oct 26 01:53:17 that's all I need really Oct 26 01:53:21 never heard of htis Oct 26 01:53:33 might be good Oct 26 01:53:35 for me Oct 26 01:53:48 give it a shot :) it's fairly mature, and crossplatofmr Oct 26 01:54:12 in fact it's even possible to run the VMs "headless" and just connect via RDP Oct 26 01:54:21 which is bloody handy if you're running VMs on a headless server Oct 26 01:54:40 hrmm Oct 26 01:55:07 "headless" ? Oct 26 01:55:14 is that as in, not on top of an OS? Oct 26 01:55:23 headless == with no direct screen output Oct 26 01:55:26 Ooh Oct 26 01:55:32 like a headless server is a server with no monitor Oct 26 01:55:42 so what? ssh? Oct 26 01:55:44 so your only access is via ssh/rdp/etc. Oct 26 01:55:49 rdp = MS Remote Desktop Oct 26 01:55:49 nifty Oct 26 01:56:01 Oh, not telnet anymore? Oct 26 01:56:06 lol, I'm out of it Oct 26 01:56:16 well if you're running a windows VM you'd be a bit stuffed without a graphical remote client Oct 26 01:56:48 owait, I just connected Oct 26 01:56:56 you can still get around with telnet Oct 26 01:57:03 for most server-ish stuff anyway Oct 26 01:57:33 you can do the commandline shit yes but you've got no chance at fiddling with some settings without typing huge potentially error riddled lines :p Oct 26 01:57:45 script Oct 26 01:57:55 but yeah Oct 26 01:57:57 unwise unless it's a tested script :p Oct 26 01:57:58 it's not their forte Oct 26 01:58:07 iunno, MSH is pretty neat :) Oct 26 01:58:18 old cmd was getting a bit long in the tooth though Oct 26 01:58:22 is that like bash for windows? Oct 26 01:58:32 never heard of Windows PowerShell either I gather? Oct 26 01:58:37 it's a bit like bash for windows yes Oct 26 01:58:48 except the embedded scripting language is fully OO and such Oct 26 01:59:06 hrmm Oct 26 01:59:16 it even comes with a complementary set of linux style aliases to the windows commands Oct 26 01:59:21 like ls -> dir for example Oct 26 01:59:26 I think I did mess with that at one point Oct 26 01:59:34 when I was checking out ruby Oct 26 01:59:39 well it was released about the time of Vista Oct 26 01:59:41 bit before Oct 26 01:59:47 PowerShell 1 runs on XP Oct 26 01:59:53 but 2.0 needs Vista or Win7 Oct 26 02:00:48 'bout to install virtual box with networking so disconnecting for a few probably Oct 26 02:01:07 aight Oct 26 02:01:10 catcha in a bit Oct 26 02:09:26 rwhitby: Are you ok with the manor in which I am notating the licenses for the individual patches? Oct 26 02:09:50 The only other option would be to create sub-directories inside the categories on the modifications repo. Oct 26 02:10:51 dBsooner: that's all good and clear Oct 26 02:13:12 so just having /-.LICENSE is ok? Oct 26 02:13:23 should we package that .LICENSE into the IPK? Oct 26 02:13:51 dBsooner: it appears in the Sources: JSON field in the control file Oct 26 02:15:12 Do we have to repackage all of them after the .LICENSE file is added? Oct 26 02:16:08 I don't think so. Oct 26 02:16:33 as long as the LICENSE field in the Makefile is correct then all is good Oct 26 02:16:41 Ahh. Ok. Oct 26 02:16:57 LICENSE = MIT Open Source Oct 26 02:17:18 Or LICENSE = MIT, OR LICENSE = X11 Oct 26 02:17:33 as the MIT Open Source license was originally created for the X11 project. Oct 26 02:17:53 dBsooner: there are a set of strings that we use which matches what we gave to PreCentral for the app gallery submission page. Oct 26 02:19:15 Do you have a list of those strings? Oct 26 02:19:43 I need to know what to put in each of these Makefile's for the ones accepting MIT. Oct 26 02:21:13 grep LICENSE */*/Makefile Oct 26 02:21:29 (from top of preware/build.git) Oct 26 02:21:45 or look at the drop-down on the PreCentral app submission page Oct 26 02:22:42 * rwhitby bbl Oct 26 02:22:44 what about license = gpl? Oct 26 02:24:14 acydlord: that would not allow Palm to use the patch in webOS Oct 26 02:24:25 rwhitby, good point Oct 26 02:24:35 * rwhitby gone Oct 26 02:24:42 of course the gpl doesnt stop apple from "borrowing" applications Oct 26 02:34:47 egaudet, rwhitby ping Oct 26 02:42:36 Anyone have gDial Pro from the app catalog installed? Oct 26 02:45:16 nae Oct 26 02:45:23 I looked it and went '...why?' Oct 26 02:45:34 ? Oct 26 02:45:52 well the basic thing is, it's not a useless app, it's just useless t'me Oct 26 02:45:56 I was just wondering if it is compatible with this patch I have. I wanted someone that had the App Catalog version to isntall the patch. Oct 26 02:46:00 since nobody I talk to uses gtalk Oct 26 02:47:38 It theory I could install it but wouldn't my backwards EU version of webos be an issue also? Oct 26 02:47:42 *in Oct 26 02:47:53 aye. Oct 26 02:48:10 I am going to install it Oct 26 02:48:12 just to test it Oct 26 02:48:26 arrr **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 26 02:59:58 2009