on the first line? Oct 28 04:56:54 <oil> eh? Oct 28 04:56:55 <Rick_work> contact management, location based services, payment provisioning, network storage, messaging, combinations of the above. Oct 28 04:56:59 <dBsooner> in PreWare patches feed Oct 28 04:57:12 <dBsooner> the list.. 2 lines Oct 28 04:57:18 <oil> i think they decided against that because they're already split by category Oct 28 04:57:25 <dBsooner> Right Oct 28 04:57:34 <dBsooner> But when you "view all" it gets confusing. Oct 28 04:57:42 <oil> and im still not sure if im moving preware to two lines Oct 28 04:57:50 <oil> dBsooner which is why we have icons Oct 28 04:57:54 <dBsooner> or "Installed patches" lumps them all in as one Oct 28 04:58:13 <dBsooner> mmk Oct 28 04:58:17 <dBsooner> twas just an idea. Oct 28 04:58:19 <Rick_work> oil, check developer.sprint.com and the sprint sandbox. Low volume app develpers can use the sandbox with NO cost at up to 500 transactions a day. Oct 28 04:58:33 <Rick_work> over the next 3 months over 300 api's including call management. Oct 28 04:58:52 <oil> so its going to cost to use the api? Oct 28 04:59:03 <Rick_work> not exactly. Oct 28 04:59:12 <Rick_work> that gets complex. It depends. Oct 28 04:59:18 <oil> lol Oct 28 04:59:59 <Rick_work> but the point is, you don't have to be a fancy pants gazillion dollar registered certified developer to use the sprint network api's INCLUDING visual voice mail and call management and call forwarding and and and Oct 28 05:00:04 <Rick_work> you just use them. Oct 28 05:00:19 * oil looks forward to visual voicemail on pre Oct 28 05:00:30 <oil> maybe someone will patch it into the dialer Oct 28 05:00:30 <oil> xD Oct 28 05:01:03 <Rick_work> or you could sign up for googletalk and forward your pre's number to that. :-) Oct 28 05:01:06 <Rick_work> for free Oct 28 05:01:15 <Rick_work> which they announced in cooperation with google today Oct 28 05:01:17 <oil> yeah Oct 28 05:01:28 <oil> im interested to see what people make with it Oct 28 05:01:32 <Stugots> yeah i heard that was possible but i didnt know "how" Oct 28 05:01:38 <Stugots> with out support from the carier Oct 28 05:01:45 <Stugots> but i guess that answers that question Oct 28 05:01:57 <Rick_work> www.google.com/voice/sprint Oct 28 05:02:12 <Rick_work> use gdial pro on the pre. -- done Oct 28 05:03:29 <Stugots> Rick_work: what i meant was i heard this evening that you could use your existing number with gvoice Oct 28 05:03:35 <oil> dBsooner: for rwhitbys wifi patch: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Wifi.png Oct 28 05:03:37 <Rick_work> ahhhh Oct 28 05:03:39 <Stugots> but untill u said sprint had free forwarding Oct 28 05:03:46 <Stugots> i didnt know how it would be accompished Oct 28 05:03:55 <Rick_work> sprint said free forwarding for everyone as of nov 15 Oct 28 05:03:56 <Stugots> unless your number was not on a carrier Oct 28 05:04:00 <Stugots> :D Oct 28 05:04:07 <Stugots> that will be cool Oct 28 05:04:32 <Stugots> if Palm was wise they would integrate google voice right into the stock dialer Oct 28 05:04:33 <oil> Stugots: you get any time for wircd? Oct 28 05:04:39 <dBsooner> oil thanks! Oct 28 05:04:58 <dBsooner> POLL: Oct 28 05:05:20 <dBsooner> PRE_YYYY-MM-DD-hh-mm-ss.jpg OR IMG_ Oct 28 05:05:35 <Stugots> oil: i was gonna do some work on it today but we had random nice weather so i debadged my car and have it an over due wash Oct 28 05:05:35 <oil> ? Oct 28 05:05:36 <dBsooner> s/hh-mm-ss/hhmmss Oct 28 05:06:00 <dBsooner> Jason made a patch for "improved camera filenames" Oct 28 05:06:13 <oil> Stugots: as long as you haven't forgotten about it xD Oct 28 05:06:19 <Stugots> dBsooner: i saw some nice new patches today Oct 28 05:06:31 <Stugots> dBsooner: close dialer on hangup is long over due Oct 28 05:06:37 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:06:37 <dBsooner> yep Oct 28 05:06:41 <oil> im timid to install that Oct 28 05:06:42 <dBsooner> so anyway Oct 28 05:06:43 <dBsooner> PRE_ Oct 28 05:06:45 <dBsooner> or IMG_ Oct 28 05:06:49 <dBsooner> for image filenames Oct 28 05:06:58 <dBsooner> saved when taking a picture iwth camera Oct 28 05:07:04 <Stugots> dBsooner: make the prefix a user definable option Oct 28 05:07:08 <Stugots> dont hard code it ;) Oct 28 05:07:08 * oil has no preference Oct 28 05:07:18 <dBsooner> Stugots: You can't do that with the current patches system Oct 28 05:07:23 <oil> we need to figure out prompting the user with preware for the scripts Oct 28 05:07:26 <Stugots> dBsooner: and why not Oct 28 05:07:32 <dBsooner> oil just said why not Oct 28 05:07:32 <dBsooner> ;) Oct 28 05:07:40 <Stugots> dBsooner: u can add code to the camera app to add a menu and store the info in a cookie Oct 28 05:07:49 <Stugots> and u can do that with patches Oct 28 05:07:49 <oil> haha! Oct 28 05:07:54 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 05:08:02 * dBsooner is not the patch developer. ;) Oct 28 05:08:10 * dBsooner is just the packager. Oct 28 05:08:13 <oil> the camera doesn't exactly have a menu Oct 28 05:08:15 <oil> being a full-screen app Oct 28 05:08:21 <dBsooner> that too Oct 28 05:08:23 <rwhitby> dBsooner: the correct response is "patch welcomed" Oct 28 05:08:28 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 05:08:31 <dBsooner> "patch welcomed" Oct 28 05:08:32 <Stugots> add a button then w/e Oct 28 05:08:38 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:08:45 <dBsooner> "patch welcomed" Oct 28 05:08:45 <Stugots> dBsooner: u been listening to rwhitby too much Oct 28 05:08:58 <dBsooner> IF you saw how well he works, you would listen too. Oct 28 05:09:00 <Stugots> dBsooner: that is is a rwhitby (tm) remark Oct 28 05:09:14 <dBsooner> rwhitby: do you have a say on the PREFIX? Oct 28 05:09:16 <rwhitby> ~emulate rwhitby Oct 28 05:09:17 <infobot> Well, my work here is done. Oct 28 05:09:21 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:09:25 <dBsooner> I have it as IMG_ right now Oct 28 05:09:38 <oil> how did the patcher submit it? Oct 28 05:09:45 <dBsooner> IMG_ Oct 28 05:09:48 <dBsooner> but Oct 28 05:09:49 <oil> then leave it like that Oct 28 05:09:55 <Stugots> some of these patches are as half assed as the homebrew apps Oct 28 05:09:58 <dBsooner> Jason told me to get the newest patch off his thread Oct 28 05:10:00 <dBsooner> which is PRE_ Oct 28 05:10:25 <Stugots> dBsooner: why not PREIMG Oct 28 05:10:27 * oil thinks Stugots needs to make more patches Oct 28 05:10:28 <Stugots> or PRE_IMG_ Oct 28 05:10:29 <dBsooner> Stugots, they are all MIT Licensed, so feel free to modify them to make them better. :D Oct 28 05:10:30 <rwhitby> use PRE_, then you can blame Jason Oct 28 05:10:34 <Stugots> or JASON_ Oct 28 05:10:46 <dBsooner> How's that rwhitby? Oct 28 05:10:52 <Stugots> how about Oct 28 05:10:55 <Stugots> NOTBYJASON_ Oct 28 05:10:59 <dBsooner> ROFL Oct 28 05:11:02 <rwhitby> and, if you blame Jason, you are implicitly blaming Canada in one fell swoop ... Oct 28 05:11:03 <Stugots> :D Oct 28 05:11:19 <dBsooner> Even the aussies understand canada Oct 28 05:11:28 * rwhitby is playing with GPS settings ... Oct 28 05:11:31 <Stugots> lol canada Oct 28 05:11:32 <dBsooner> so it's occa? Oct 28 05:11:35 * oil waits for Stugots launcher icons patch that includes a new scene for manually changing the icon rows/cols and text size/etc Oct 28 05:11:38 <dBsooner> ~define occa Oct 28 05:11:40 <infobot> Use ~dict for definitions. Oct 28 05:11:44 <dBsooner> ~dict occa Oct 28 05:11:47 <infobot> Dictionary 'occa' Open Cooperative Computing Architecture Oct 28 05:11:49 <rwhitby> ocker Oct 28 05:11:52 <dBsooner> ocker! Oct 28 05:11:54 <dBsooner> thats the word Oct 28 05:12:18 <Stugots> oil: u want me to do that instead of wircd now? Oct 28 05:12:22 <oil> no Oct 28 05:12:24 <oil> not at all Oct 28 05:12:25 <dBsooner> Hehe Oct 28 05:12:32 <Stugots> oil: cause my time the next 2 weeks is limited since i have to give a talk in Toronto now Oct 28 05:12:36 <dBsooner> come on puff get my wircd so I can have wirc Oct 28 05:13:01 <Stugots> i got "volunteered" to give a talk in toronto while in texas Oct 28 05:13:13 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:13:15 <Stugots> and preparing for that sorta trumps wircd Oct 28 05:13:21 <oil> bah Oct 28 05:13:44 <oil> brb Oct 28 05:13:50 <Stugots> i need to make lisp bindings for lunaservice too Oct 28 05:13:59 <Stugots> so that I can learn lisp and do webos shit Oct 28 05:14:08 <Stugots> and not feel guilty about being unproductive Oct 28 05:14:13 <Stugots> cause i need to learn lisp fast Oct 28 05:14:52 <Stugots> well more like, not feed guilty about not doing webos stuff Oct 28 05:14:54 <rwhitby> Stugots: emacs runs on the emulator ... Oct 28 05:15:05 <tlp> oil: Maybe you can learn C and/or Java and write wircd :) Oct 28 05:15:08 <Stugots> i need to learn common lisp not emacs lisp Oct 28 05:15:28 <Stugots> tlp: lol, no Oct 28 05:15:30 <tlp> I keep debating it but anything I come up with is gonna be a serious hack. Oct 28 05:15:33 <Stugots> we are not doing any more java services Oct 28 05:15:38 <tlp> ah Oct 28 05:15:42 <tlp> too resource intensive? Oct 28 05:15:52 <Stugots> yeah, java already wastes so much memory Oct 28 05:16:07 <Stugots> the pre would be so slick if the mail and calendar app were in C Oct 28 05:16:18 <Stugots> well Oct 28 05:16:20 <Stugots> s/app/service/ Oct 28 05:16:23 <tlp> C isn't the most fun thing to write though Oct 28 05:16:27 <Stugots> the gui parts still suck majorly Oct 28 05:16:35 <Stugots> C is lots of fun Oct 28 05:16:47 <Stugots> reinventing the wheel for every program :D Oct 28 05:16:55 <tlp> Handling strings, for example, is such a pain when you're used to all of the convenience of perl/php/etc. Oct 28 05:17:10 <tlp> anyway, not trying to go into a language debate Oct 28 05:17:16 <Stugots> perl/php do not count Oct 28 05:17:26 * Rick_work doesn't think reinventing the wheel is such a big deal. Reinventing the AXLE now that's a pain. Oct 28 05:18:13 <Stugots> tlp: we could write the services in C++ easily Oct 28 05:18:24 <Stugots> but C++ is..... Oct 28 05:18:26 <Stugots> ehhh Oct 28 05:18:30 <Stugots> actually Oct 28 05:18:36 <tlp> I just want to IRC from my Pre ;) Oct 28 05:18:36 <Stugots> this could be a good time to learn D also Oct 28 05:18:54 <tlp> (without slow terminal apps over ssh) Oct 28 05:19:00 <Stugots> tlp: soon enough Oct 28 05:19:14 <tlp> irssi proxy should be neat for that Oct 28 05:19:27 <tlp> although I bet all of the channels I'm in is gonna kill the battery Oct 28 05:19:38 <Stugots> tlp: well.... Oct 28 05:19:43 <oil> i do remember Stugots saying wircd by the end of the month xD Oct 28 05:19:44 <Stugots> tlp: if i went with my first plan Oct 28 05:19:48 <oil> got a few more days :) Oct 28 05:19:48 * Rick_work thinks we should write services in haskell. Oct 28 05:19:50 <tlp> disabling AIM netted serious battery life for me Oct 28 05:20:01 <Stugots> tlp: if we used quassel Oct 28 05:20:07 * rwhitby is still wondering about the PuffTheMagic -> Stugots name change ... Oct 28 05:20:07 <Stugots> then the irc client would be really nice Oct 28 05:20:37 <Stugots> rwhitby: i told you guess/assumption was correct Oct 28 05:20:41 <Stugots> or are you wondering why? Oct 28 05:20:50 <rwhitby> I'm wondering why Oct 28 05:21:07 <Stugots> idk, i change/alternate nicks all the time Oct 28 05:21:10 <tlp> PuffTheMagic had character :p Oct 28 05:21:25 <tlp> I've been using tlp for like the past 8 years I think Oct 28 05:21:43 <Stugots> tlp: if you watched the sopranos you would see the character in Stugots too ;) Oct 28 05:21:52 <kesne> Checkers Pro should be getting an update soon Oct 28 05:22:04 <Stugots> better AI? Oct 28 05:22:15 <rwhitby> Stugots: yeah, the boat Oct 28 05:22:36 <Stugots> rwhitby: not just the boat, what it means Oct 28 05:22:47 <rwhitby> nod Oct 28 05:22:54 * oil hopes the ai doesn't just move his piece back and forth Oct 28 05:23:00 <dBsooner> rwhitby: fire off a build? Oct 28 05:23:01 <Stugots> oil: lol Oct 28 05:23:34 <Stugots> "omg, idk what to do, better go back and forth" Oct 28 05:23:42 <Stugots> been there a few times. gave up Oct 28 05:23:43 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:23:45 <rwhitby> dBsooner: done Oct 28 05:23:45 <oil> forever Oct 28 05:23:50 <oil> won't give that piece up for anything Oct 28 05:23:58 <kesne> oil: it doesnt as much anymore Oct 28 05:24:10 <oil> what about flipping the board? Oct 28 05:24:13 <kesne> I've done a complete overhaul of 90% of the app Oct 28 05:24:16 <kesne> Flipping included Oct 28 05:24:17 <oil> (thats what i see a lot of comments about) Oct 28 05:24:20 <kesne> Online play too Oct 28 05:24:25 <oil> nice Oct 28 05:24:34 <rwhitby> dBsooner: install: cannot stat `build/src-1.2.1-13/other/calulator-enable-vibration.patch': No such file or directory Oct 28 05:24:36 <kesne> I just need to finish Oct 28 05:24:36 <Stugots> kesne: what about the AI though... Oct 28 05:24:44 <dBsooner> blah Oct 28 05:24:46 <Stugots> that is like #1 killer Oct 28 05:24:51 <kesne> Stugots: AI improvements for sure Oct 28 05:24:57 <dBsooner> i forgot to change the category Oct 28 05:24:59 <oil> i still gotta go through and make my apps pixi-friendly Oct 28 05:25:01 <oil> before the 22nd Oct 28 05:25:21 <kesne> Stugots: Working on it the best I can, but it is better for sure. And the online play will help you face good people. Oct 28 05:25:29 <kesne> oil: 22nd? Oct 28 05:25:35 <oil> when the pixi is released Oct 28 05:26:00 * oil is going to play online and just move his piece back and forth forever! Oct 28 05:26:02 <oil> hahaha Oct 28 05:26:18 <Stugots> kesne: adding online play is like... the easy way out of making a good 1 player game Oct 28 05:26:25 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:26:27 <kesne> Lol Oct 28 05:26:39 <kesne> true, but 1 player is currently heavily in the works Oct 28 05:26:45 <kesne> You should notice an improvement Oct 28 05:27:06 <Stugots> kesne: there has to be some documentation and algorithms online for checkers AI Oct 28 05:27:11 <Stugots> well established Oct 28 05:27:23 <Stugots> its easier than chess Oct 28 05:27:29 <Stugots> i would imagine Oct 28 05:27:34 <kesne> Yeah Oct 28 05:27:37 <dBsooner> rwhitby: fixed Oct 28 05:27:40 <kesne> But programming it is the hard part Oct 28 05:27:43 <kesne> and making it fast Oct 28 05:27:53 <kesne> I just ran like 10 speed optimizations on this Oct 28 05:27:58 <kesne> got it running supa fast Oct 28 05:28:11 <Stugots> well when i build a CLisp for the Pre we can all write better AI on the pre :D Oct 28 05:28:20 <rwhitby> dBsooner: running Oct 28 05:29:03 <Stugots> rwhitby: dont forget to check into that opkg issue we talked about Oct 28 05:29:17 <rwhitby> Stugots: which one? Oct 28 05:29:22 <Stugots> ummm Oct 28 05:29:34 <Stugots> rwhitby: i think make sure the the db's are compat Oct 28 05:29:37 <kesne> oil: the pixi arrives on the 15th... Oct 28 05:29:52 <oil> i thought it said the 22nd Oct 28 05:29:56 <Stugots> too bad the pixi has no wifi Oct 28 05:29:59 <Stugots> that is such a killer Oct 28 05:30:39 <Rick_work> Pixie is VERY NICE. Oct 28 05:30:41 <oil> brb Oct 28 05:30:47 <Rick_work> played with one for about a 1.2 hour Oct 28 05:30:51 <kesne> Rick_work: pixi, not pixie Oct 28 05:30:57 <Rick_work> GREAT keyboard. GOOD hardware feel. Oct 28 05:31:03 <Rick_work> thin thin thin Oct 28 05:31:10 <rwhitby> kesne: it's was a pre-release model, so still pixie Oct 28 05:31:12 <kesne> Rick_work, pro's/cons? Keyboard better than pre? Fast? Oct 28 05:31:16 <Rick_work> responsive, etc. Oct 28 05:31:31 <Rick_work> keyboard better. Ever so slightly slower Oct 28 05:31:39 <dBsooner> oil, update the feeds, new icons should be there Oct 28 05:32:01 <kesne> Rick_work lack of a real center button better or worse? Oct 28 05:33:20 <dBsooner> Rick_work: they give you one? Oct 28 05:34:34 <Rick_work> better Oct 28 05:34:35 <Rick_work> no. Oct 28 05:36:16 <kesne> Rick_work: does it look nice? Oct 28 05:48:19 <destinal> rwhitby: re the last resort thing, I don't think the harsh warning is required, usb booting a pre's not going to brick it, not going to do anything bad really Oct 28 05:50:32 <destinal> like, I think the warning is totally incorrect. you can't "easily cause a perfectly good Pre that can be recovered simply using the webOS Doctor to become a Pre that requires that far more complex and unsupported by Palm procedure to get it back to life." Oct 28 05:50:35 <destinal> it's not easy to cause an issue with the method, maybe not even _possible_ to unless you boot some kind of malicious ARM code somehow which the potential user is not going to have access to Oct 28 05:52:10 <destinal> it just loads over USB into RAM and starts running it, it's not like you're overwriting bootie Oct 28 05:53:10 <rwhitby> destinal: oh, it doesn't overwrite bootie> Oct 28 05:53:23 <rwhitby> destinal: ok, agreed then. Oct 28 05:54:01 <destinal> rwhitby: right, the way it would recover bootie would be the rest of what the doctor does when you load it Oct 28 05:54:11 <destinal> normal doctor stuff Oct 28 05:54:45 <destinal> and I don't know if it really works to do that, but I hope it would. :) Oct 28 05:54:53 <destinal> rwhitby: get your dead pre to play with yet? Oct 28 05:55:00 <rwhitby> destinal: fair enough. can we reword it so that aunt minnie doesn't try that method if she has just hit the volume up button at the wrong time? Oct 28 05:55:03 <rwhitby> destinal: not yet Oct 28 05:55:24 <Rick-work> back Oct 28 05:57:06 <oil> so i take it dude never submitted his terminal padding stuff? Oct 28 05:58:08 <prestonjames> can someone tell me how to package the .patch i made as .ipk for preware? Oct 28 05:58:25 <oil> prestonjames, your best bet is submitting it to dbsooners page Oct 28 05:58:28 <destinal> oil: looks like not. I have to run to bed, but if you want to go ahead and push a new terminal release with your enhancements, that's cool Oct 28 05:59:50 <oil> maybe i'll do that Oct 28 06:00:11 <oil> has anyone tested it? Oct 28 06:00:30 <prestonjames> +oil, i need to also add an image change along with the .patch, but i don't know how to do it Oct 28 06:00:40 <destinal> oil: I'd hang around and do it myself but I have work tomorrow. I tested it but only briefly Oct 28 06:00:55 <oil> ok Oct 28 06:00:59 <oil> well, probably good enough :) Oct 28 06:01:07 <oil> prestonjames: i have no clue Oct 28 06:01:21 <rwhitby> prestonjames: chat to dBsooner Oct 28 06:01:34 * rwhitby bbl Oct 28 06:01:40 <prestonjames> thanks guys Oct 28 06:02:25 <a2ny> good evening :D Oct 28 06:06:41 <destinal> a2ny: hey. Oct 28 06:06:59 <oil> hey its teh padding guy Oct 28 06:07:42 <egaudet> prestonjames, for other patches using autopatch technology that need images, we use postinst_extra script to "install" the images and prerm_extra script to remove Oct 28 06:08:43 <destinal> oil: hey, if you guys can get that in too, even better. again, if you have time and feel like it Oct 28 06:08:53 <destinal> sorry to run out on you Oct 28 06:08:57 <oil> its ok Oct 28 06:09:09 <oil> i tagged whats there as 0.2.3 Oct 28 06:09:19 <destinal> cool Oct 28 06:09:37 <a2ny> I am working on it right now Oct 28 06:09:44 <a2ny> I just git pulled your stuff :D Oct 28 06:09:50 <prestonjames> +egaudet, is there somewhere i can go to learn more about use those scripts? i'm learning as i go here. Oct 28 06:10:12 <Rick-work> http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/10/how_important_i.html;jsessionid=RJOXL5MP0H0NBQE1GHPSKH4ATMY32JVN Oct 28 06:10:34 <egaudet> they are simple bash shell scripts prestonjames. Are you familiar with linux and shell scripts at all? Oct 28 06:11:05 <prestonjames> nope. i'm a total noob. in way over my head Oct 28 06:11:27 <egaudet> we would use them simply to backup/overwrite or copy new images into place on the pre. (And recover/remove on uninstall) Oct 28 06:12:28 <egaudet> We can write up the scripts for you if you supply us the images and where you would like them Oct 28 06:12:50 <prestonjames> ok. should i just pm you over at precentral? Oct 28 06:13:52 <egaudet> You can use dB's submission script to submit the patch (use admin notes to let us know you will be sending images too) and then email me the images with locations if you would like Oct 28 06:14:32 <prestonjames> ok, thanks for your help. Oct 28 06:14:41 <egaudet> I can probably get it all set up and pacakged into the feed tomorrow evening Oct 28 06:23:25 <Rick-work> crash -- sleep Oct 28 06:23:28 <Rick-work> gnight all Oct 28 06:23:39 <oil> good luck tomorrow rick Oct 28 06:23:46 <oil> aw Oct 28 06:34:04 <prestonjames> +egaudet, i sent you the image i need with that patch. thanks again for your help. Oct 28 06:40:52 <oc80z> whats good Oct 28 06:44:36 <egaudet> good night Oct 28 07:14:56 <dBsooner> egaudet if you're still up.. Oct 28 07:15:20 <dBsooner> Look into the camera-improved-filename-format patch Oct 28 07:15:36 <dBsooner> if you can.. cuz it's broke and I can't keep my eyes open Oct 28 07:15:44 <dBsooner> otherwise I'll work on in the am. Oct 28 07:15:45 <dBsooner> night all Oct 28 07:24:47 <jody> can anyone offer help with my palm pre? Oct 28 07:48:39 <geist> guess not Oct 28 07:53:13 <rwhitby> geist: I was going to say "there's an app for help on the Palm Pre" .... Oct 28 07:54:16 <LachAU> rwhitby...fellow aussie I believe Oct 28 07:54:20 <LachAU> adeladian even Oct 28 07:54:26 <LachAU> if my readings have been correct Oct 28 07:54:31 <rwhitby> LachAU: yep, g'day. Oct 28 07:54:46 <LachAU> you got your pre yet Oct 28 07:54:46 <LachAU> or still waiting Oct 28 07:54:46 <rwhitby> maybe you're on the same bus as me right now ... Oct 28 07:54:51 <LachAU> heh Oct 28 07:54:55 <LachAU> just got off one ;) Oct 28 07:55:01 <rwhitby> LachAU: 6 to 10 days-ish Oct 28 07:55:03 <LachAU> that was me, getting out the door Oct 28 07:55:06 <LachAU> ah ok Oct 28 07:55:29 <LachAU> im very eager to see how you go... optus? Oct 28 08:31:18 <Robi_> sweet, installing win7 on my netbook from my palm pre! Oct 28 08:46:54 <rwhitby> LachAU: vodafone here, but freakout-away is trying all three Oct 28 08:49:42 <gregroll> rwhitby: evening. did freakout get his phone? Oct 28 08:51:35 <rwhitby> gregroll: not yet Oct 28 08:52:03 <oil> lol Oct 28 08:52:36 <gregroll> damn customs Oct 28 08:52:41 <gregroll> damn expansys too :( Oct 28 08:56:43 <Robi_> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2002802#post2002802 Oct 28 08:57:42 <Robi_> sweet, installing win7 on my netbook from my palm pre! Oct 28 09:00:57 <rwhitby> another step towards skynet ... Oct 28 09:01:55 <Robi_> nah, they seem to be preventing skynet with sheer paranoia and stupidity Oct 28 09:02:10 <Robi_> that's why the per can't be a phone and in usb mode at the same time Oct 28 09:02:17 <Robi_> s/per/pre Oct 28 09:04:17 <rwhitby> Robi_: I for one am glad that Palm has stopped the onslaught of skynet with that single safety interlock. Oct 28 09:04:50 <greg_roll> Robi_: Windows 7 from your Pre lol awesome :) Oct 28 09:05:08 * rwhitby doctor's his Pre yet again ... Oct 28 09:10:02 <greg_roll> rwhitby: what did you do??? more testing? Oct 28 09:10:14 <rwhitby> greg_roll: gps testing Oct 28 09:10:40 <greg_roll> rwhitby: interesting... trying to fix the GPS 360 issue? Oct 28 09:12:43 <rwhitby> looking at standalone settings Oct 28 09:13:30 <rwhitby> didn't seem to work. then I remembered that I had bell firmware loaded, so flashing back to sprint, just in case that has any affect Oct 28 09:14:11 <greg_roll> very cool! it's cool you have a play/dev device Oct 28 09:20:10 <corecode> what's that skynet reference? Oct 28 09:26:21 <freakout> No pre yet greg_roll. I hope by friday Oct 28 09:26:48 <greg_roll> freakout: bummer, at least its only 3 days Oct 28 09:28:39 <freakout> yep Oct 28 09:29:04 <freakout> rwhitby: that's concerning. Hope the German GPS is better... Oct 28 09:33:28 <greg_roll> freakout: have you been following people success with 3G on the german pre? Oct 28 09:56:50 <freakout> greg_roll: been keeping an eye on the precentral forums but haven't had much time lately Oct 28 09:57:08 <freakout> greg_roll: no one's tried Oz yet so far as I know. which is good, 'cause I can get a news story out of it Oct 28 09:57:38 <greg_roll> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/209222-few-questions-about-german-palm-pre-5.html looks really good Oct 28 09:57:48 <greg_roll> it talks about entries that are in the db3 file but don't work Oct 28 09:58:00 <greg_roll> but people have figured out how to enable them, i think :) Oct 28 10:05:12 <freakout> yeah i saw that - dakis managed to make swisscom work Oct 28 10:05:20 <freakout> so there's hope for us all yet Oct 28 10:11:00 <corecode> what is this works/doesn't work with some SIM cards? Oct 28 10:13:54 <greg_roll> some data services may not work due to the fact the carriersettingsdatabase.db3 has login values of hs_null Oct 28 10:14:02 <greg_roll> they need to be changed to blank Oct 28 10:14:16 <greg_roll> plus there is 2 collumns that may need to be set to 1 (enabled) to work Oct 28 10:14:22 <greg_roll> pretty straigh forward Oct 28 10:26:32 <oc80z-> whats good Oct 28 10:28:36 <oc80z-> webos is developing. Oct 28 10:35:05 <oc80z-> whats the avg, 3 apps per day? Oct 28 10:35:19 <oc80z-> since 7/6/09 no? Oct 28 10:39:49 <greg_roll> freakout: you still around? Oct 28 10:47:26 <greg_roll> rwhitby: Just looked through the carrier database and I think your fine for Vodafone AU and data etc Oct 28 10:47:53 <rwhitby> greg_roll: yep, I'm expecting it all to be fine Oct 28 10:48:09 <greg_roll> everything looks enabled and correct Oct 28 10:48:14 <greg_roll> freakout on the other hand... Oct 28 10:49:49 <greg_roll> rwhitby: yet by default for me 3 is set for data access but 3 intranet no lol Oct 28 10:54:40 <oc80z-> ma -f bm would be noice. Oct 28 10:56:14 <rwhitby> EVENT_GPS_SEED_GET Option = 0, Latitude = 43, Longitude = -78, Position Sigma = 0, GPS Week = 1305, GPS ms = 298400857 Oct 28 10:56:28 <greg_roll> rwhitby: there are 3 settings in the carrier database (msAssistedAllowed, msBasedAllowed and agpsServerAddress) which do stuff around GPS. For vodafone they are set to 1,1,blank. Oct 28 10:56:39 <greg_roll> It appears GPS settings are turned on based on carrier Oct 28 10:56:55 <greg_roll> maybe because you have no carrier on your CDMA could explain why the GPS is weird Oct 28 10:59:43 <rwhitby> greg_roll: it's using stand-alone mode Oct 28 10:59:59 <rwhitby> I think the trouble is that seed is not allowing an ephemeris download from the satellites Oct 28 11:00:17 <greg_roll> rwhitby: oh ok. So that rules that out Oct 28 11:00:30 <greg_roll> wow you know alot about GPS, all that is french to me lol Oct 28 11:00:53 <rwhitby> I've read a bit in the last couple of hours ... Oct 28 11:01:11 <greg_roll> and whats seed? Oct 28 11:05:44 <rwhitby> initial position Oct 28 11:08:05 <rwhitby> for some reason it thinks I'm near Niagara Falls ... Oct 28 11:08:17 <greg_roll> oh i see thanks :) Oct 28 11:14:35 <corecode> now i just need to find a good data plan that won't drive me into poverty Oct 28 11:15:20 <corecode> so let's say i forgot the key to my own WEP protected wifi network and I only had a pre Oct 28 11:15:39 <corecode> is there a way to find the key and use the wifi net? Oct 28 11:33:05 <freakout> rwhitby: i suppose the real test will be once there's another Pre in Oz to test with. But this does not bode well Oct 28 11:36:00 <greg_roll> rwhitby: does the info you posted above ever change? and what did you run to get that info? Oct 28 11:43:39 <freakout> greg_roll: if you want some good background reading on GPS and A-GPS, check out Ars technica's article: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/01/assisted-gps.ars Oct 28 11:44:02 <greg_roll> freakout: thanks! Oct 28 11:44:05 <greg_roll> im off to bed now Oct 28 11:44:10 <greg_roll> have a good night all speak soon Oct 28 11:44:57 <freakout> g'night Oct 28 13:40:12 * rwhitby bbt Oct 28 13:47:42 <dBsooner> wee.. new terminal? xD Oct 28 14:26:57 <corecode> no sip integration for webos :/ Oct 28 14:30:53 <bmyers_here> nope Oct 28 14:31:12 <bmyers_here> no mic api anyway Oct 28 14:31:34 <corecode> seriously? Oct 28 14:31:45 <corecode> that's a killer Oct 28 14:43:21 <Stugots> did google really scrap android to get into netbooks and other devices.... like the chrome os shit? Oct 28 14:56:13 <corecode> bmyers_here: so no skype or anything else? Oct 28 15:07:03 <en0x> corecode: nope Oct 28 15:11:57 <dBsooner> egaudet: ping Oct 28 15:16:25 <nt4cats> Good morning Oct 28 15:18:02 <A2NY1> good morning Oct 28 15:23:22 <nt4cats> I just uninstalled my user-agent patch (made sites thing my Pre was an iPhone) Oct 28 15:24:25 <nt4cats> I didn't notice a difference in the sites I use, and I don't want the sites to count my device as an iPhone in any stats they collect -- I want them to see (and count me as) Pre traffic Oct 28 15:33:00 <egaudet_work> morning Oct 28 15:34:30 <nt4cats> 'lo egaudet Oct 28 15:38:20 <dBsooner> lo there Oct 28 15:38:34 <dBsooner> So I had to fix Jason's patch Oct 28 15:38:51 <dBsooner> adding function to the header controls fixes it.. just line numbers don't work Oct 28 15:40:56 <corecode> any insight on what would be needed to have nice sip integration? Oct 28 15:49:18 <dBsooner> egaudet: we need to find a way to make battery icon as percent and Showe Actual Percent compatible. Oct 28 15:50:41 <dBsooner> I wonder if I could just MERGE Show actual percent into the "Battery as Percent" and "Battery AND percent" patches? Oct 28 15:50:59 <dBsooner> then leave a show actual percent patch by itself. Oct 28 15:52:41 <Stugots> corecode: yeah run a sip daemon in the background and then write a gui to interface with it Oct 28 15:53:02 <A2NY1> dBsooner: you would have to make a separate patch for actual Oct 28 15:53:04 <dBsooner> Puff, what do you think of my idea.. --^^ Oct 28 15:53:15 <nt4cats> corecode: and make sure you're good at hiding because Sprint may just send their Ninjas to your house Oct 28 15:53:15 <Stugots> what i dea? Oct 28 15:53:15 <dBsooner> A2NY1: That's the problem. I can't. Oct 28 15:53:16 <corecode> Stugots: what about microphone, integration with the dial/address book app? Oct 28 15:53:20 <A2NY1> lol Oct 28 15:53:24 <Stugots> corecode: what about it? Oct 28 15:53:44 <corecode> is that easy or hard or already existing? Oct 28 15:53:48 <Stugots> corecode: u have access to linux... you can do what ever you can think of Oct 28 15:53:53 <dBsooner> A2NY1: Right now there are 3 separate patches. "Show Actual Percet", "Battery AS Percent" and "Battery AND Percent" Oct 28 15:54:07 <Stugots> dBsooner: i think all those patches that modify the header area need to die Oct 28 15:54:11 <Stugots> and a new patch be made Oct 28 15:54:16 <Stugots> one that alternates information Oct 28 15:54:23 <a2ny> so what are you looking to do ? Oct 28 15:54:49 <dBsooner> A2NY: If you install "Show Actual Percent", you can't install "Battery AS Percent" Oct 28 15:54:59 <dBsooner> and vice versa. Oct 28 15:55:08 <a2ny> yup, the patch halts Oct 28 15:55:11 <Stugots> ^^ the joys of patches Oct 28 15:55:21 <dBsooner> because Battery AS percent adds an extra if/fi clause Oct 28 15:55:46 <dBsooner> add the same line "SHow Actual Percent" keys off of Oct 28 15:55:54 <a2ny> so create 2 new patches Oct 28 15:55:59 <oil> aunt minnie wants both! Oct 28 15:56:00 <Stugots> no Oct 28 15:56:02 <Stugots> create 1 patch Oct 28 15:56:03 <dBsooner> No Oct 28 15:56:05 <Stugots> with both merged Oct 28 15:56:07 <dBsooner> Yes Oct 28 15:56:10 <dBsooner> that was my idea Oct 28 15:56:18 <dBsooner> Well, let me rephrase it Oct 28 15:56:29 <Stugots> yet another multimod patch Oct 28 15:56:36 <dBsooner> I want to UPDATE the "Battery AS Percent" to have "Show Actual Percent" in it Oct 28 15:56:45 <Stugots> why Oct 28 15:56:48 <dBsooner> then leave Show Actual Percent by itself as well Oct 28 15:56:56 <Stugots> leave them both by them selves Oct 28 15:57:01 <Stugots> and make a 3rd new patch Oct 28 15:57:21 <dBsooner> but I "THINK" Battery AND percent fails too Oct 28 15:57:27 <dBsooner> so it would need 2 new Oct 28 15:57:34 <Stugots> well w/e Oct 28 15:57:38 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 15:57:40 <Stugots> i hate patches Oct 28 15:57:46 <dBsooner> I am no longer working for AM Oct 28 15:57:52 <Stugots> AM? Oct 28 15:57:59 <Stugots> oh Oct 28 15:58:01 <dBsooner> Aunt Minnie Oct 28 15:58:01 <Stugots> i get it :D Oct 28 15:58:07 <oil> lol Oct 28 15:59:50 <dBsooner> yep Oct 28 15:59:50 <dBsooner> it fails too Oct 28 15:59:50 <dBsooner> So two new it is Oct 28 16:00:22 <dBsooner> So you all think there should be "Battery As Percent w/o Actual" and "Battery AND Percent w/o Actual" Oct 28 16:00:44 <dBsooner> then "Battery As Percent w/ Actual" and "Battery AND Percent w/ Actual"? Oct 28 16:05:47 <a2ny> yup Oct 28 16:06:19 <dBsooner> let me interpret that? Oct 28 16:06:36 * dBsooner got screwed by having to combine them. ;) Oct 28 16:07:53 <theonetruedevo> hi all Oct 28 16:08:08 <theonetruedevo> does anyone know if there is anyone working on a way to play flac in the music player? Oct 28 16:08:32 <en0x> theonetruedevo: you will need a flac codec Oct 28 16:08:49 <a2ny> dBsooner: that is better than me trying to use JS to control css styles right now =\ Oct 28 16:09:13 <theonetruedevo> en0x: its possible to add codecs to the music player? Oct 28 16:09:34 <en0x> u will need to add a codec to gstreamer Oct 28 16:09:51 <theonetruedevo> en0x: guess i will have to look into gstreamer :) Oct 28 16:10:09 <en0x> music player uses gstreamer to play music Oct 28 16:10:12 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, actually they can be made compatible Oct 28 16:12:03 <egaudet_work> and what was wrong with Jason's patch? Oct 28 16:12:36 <theonetruedevo> en0x: cool, i will take a look at gstreamer, thanks Oct 28 16:13:06 <a2ny> anything in mojo.log.info stores in var/logs/messages ? Oct 28 16:13:06 <en0x> kk Oct 28 16:14:29 <theonetruedevo> en0x: the webos-internals page about gstreamer has done a pretty good job dissuading me Oct 28 16:15:18 <en0x> you will just have to compile gstreamer-bad plugins Oct 28 16:15:26 <en0x> and then start working Oct 28 16:15:27 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, Jason's patch failed due to dos-mode <CR> bytes not the headers Oct 28 16:15:30 <en0x> on it if it will play Oct 28 16:15:34 <en0x> anyway KUDOS to it Oct 28 16:17:46 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, for future reference to fix those dos mode <CR> bytes, open the patch in vi and type ':se ff=unix' without the quotes and save Oct 28 16:19:14 <Stugots> people need to stop doing linux dev work in windows Oct 28 16:22:15 <nt4cats> egaudet / dbsooner: if you're on a Linux box (not your pre) -- you probably have a tool called 'dos2unix' installed ... just 'dos2unix somefile' and It'll ensure your file is formatted for unix Oct 28 16:23:42 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: oh and oh Oct 28 16:23:50 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: no you want Oct 28 16:23:59 <dBsooner> s/want/cant/ Oct 28 16:24:40 <Stugots> nt4cats: its not on my box :D Oct 28 16:25:19 <dBsooner> Because both the Battery AS/AND Percent reference 'payload.percent_ui' which is CHANGED by Actual Percent to be 'payload.percent' Oct 28 16:26:32 <dBsooner> example: $('power').innerHTML = this.getBatteryLevelPercent(payload.percent_ui, batteryLevelColor, true, 0); Oct 28 16:26:39 <nt4cats> stugots: if you're running Ubuntu, 'sudo apt-get install tofrodos'. If you're running Fedora, "yum install dos2unix'. If you're not running either of those you're a weenie. Oct 28 16:26:55 <dBsooner> that's a line ADDED by Battery AS Percent Oct 28 16:27:07 <Stugots> yes im not running those nor do I "want" dos2unux Oct 28 16:27:16 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, you can change what payload.percent_ui is very early Oct 28 16:27:17 <Stugots> i dont use windows, so i will never had a dos formatted file Oct 28 16:27:29 <egaudet_work> so you CAN change the patch to make the functionality compatible Oct 28 16:27:37 <dBsooner> I guess you culd Oct 28 16:27:46 <nt4cats> Stugots: but there are plenty of windoze drones out there who may send you a DOS-formatted file Oct 28 16:27:51 <egaudet_work> and yea dos2unix is good, thanks nt4cats Oct 28 16:27:53 <Stugots> egaudet_work: dBsooner is avoiding any coding Oct 28 16:27:54 <dBsooner> So what's your idea? Oct 28 16:28:03 <dBsooner> Yea, I don't want to code Oct 28 16:28:03 <Stugots> nt4cats: i wont use it Oct 28 16:28:06 <dBsooner> as I dont' want to maintain Oct 28 16:28:13 <egaudet_work> I code and I don't maintain Oct 28 16:28:17 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:28:24 <nt4cats> Stugots: well, you've got balls, I must say. Oct 28 16:28:25 <egaudet_work> I'll change patches and never put my name near it Oct 28 16:28:42 <dBsooner> so how would I make it compat? Oct 28 16:28:44 <egaudet_work> I'll hand my changes to the maintainer Oct 28 16:29:06 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, where is payload first defined? Is it a parameter to the function? Oct 28 16:29:12 <dBsooner> let me look Oct 28 16:29:32 <dBsooner> its a paramater to the function: Oct 28 16:29:38 <dBsooner> handlePowerNotifications: function(payload) { Oct 28 16:29:57 <Stugots> nt4cats: line endings only matter for patches anyway... which i am not involved with, so really there is no reason why I would ever recieve a dos file like that Oct 28 16:30:10 <dBsooner> payload.percent_ui = payload.percent; ? Oct 28 16:30:18 <dBsooner> var payload.percent_ui = payload.percent; ? Oct 28 16:30:19 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, first line of the function do payload.percent_ui = payload.percent Oct 28 16:30:31 <Stugots> eww Oct 28 16:30:34 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:30:47 <egaudet_work> and do not listen to Puff Oct 28 16:31:18 <dBsooner> Puff leads us astray a lot Oct 28 16:31:21 <egaudet_work> I know it's ugly and it could be better, but I don't want to get into making every single one of the 90+ patches correct or optimal Oct 28 16:31:37 * dBsooner agrees with egaudet_work! Oct 28 16:31:38 <egaudet_work> Puff will invariably bring up a good point though Oct 28 16:31:48 <dBsooner> Oh yeah.. Oct 28 16:31:52 <dBsooner> I got a response for that! Oct 28 16:32:00 * nt4cats thinks we should all get pitchforks and torches and storm Puff's castle Oct 28 16:32:04 <dBsooner> "patch welcomed" Oct 28 16:32:18 * dBsooner high fives a sleeping rwhitby! Oct 28 16:33:20 <egaudet_work> Stugots, what's the latest on your C projects? Oct 28 16:34:39 <Stugots> egaudet_work: well the C ipkg service need to use opkg instead of ipkg so we can get signed packages working, and i still have to add confirmation support, and everything needs to be API compat with existing service before we can make any improvements Oct 28 16:34:53 <Stugots> egaudet_work: and uberservice is stalled Oct 28 16:35:01 <Stugots> wircd is less stalled Oct 28 16:35:29 <egaudet_work> you still at conference? Oct 28 16:35:38 <Stugots> no i got back friday night Oct 28 16:35:47 <Stugots> egaudet_work: but i have to present something another another conference on the 7th Oct 28 16:35:53 <dBsooner> you don't add this. to payload.percent_ui = payload.percent do you? Oct 28 16:36:15 <Stugots> egaudet_work: so the free time i though i had to whip out a wircd beta went away Oct 28 16:37:39 <egaudet_work> no dBsooner Oct 28 16:38:14 <dBsooner> because it was accepted in from a call Oct 28 16:38:28 <egaudet_work> busy busy these days Puff. I've been a complete slacker of late Oct 28 16:38:31 <dBsooner> this. is only for stuff defined inside the function, correct? Oct 28 16:39:11 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, this is for the current context. Rick could explain better, I can't put it into words Oct 28 16:39:21 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:39:34 <dBsooner> OOP. That's all you have to say. Oct 28 16:39:54 <egaudet_work> if you had var blah, you wouldn't do this.blah either Oct 28 16:40:10 <Stugots> egaudet_work: plus i really want to get freeTether out the door :D Oct 28 16:40:29 <egaudet_work> freeTether :) Oct 28 16:42:13 <a2ny> whosTether ? Oct 28 16:46:39 <dBsooner> a2ny Oct 28 16:46:44 <dBsooner> I didn't realize this was your patch Oct 28 16:46:44 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:47:02 <dBsooner> you ok with that change to show actual percent? Oct 28 16:51:17 <Stugots> dBsooner: why are you messing with peoples patches, just make a new patch Oct 28 16:51:25 <Stugots> just like there are 55 versions of the 4x4 patch Oct 28 16:51:47 <dBsooner> Shut up. Oct 28 16:51:57 <dBsooner> xD Oct 28 16:52:41 <Stugots> maybe people like the existing behavior of it Oct 28 16:52:45 <Stugots> why get rid of it Oct 28 16:52:52 <dBsooner> It will function the same Oct 28 16:54:57 <oil> lol Oct 28 16:56:07 <dBsooner> oil, why laught? Oct 28 16:56:28 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: do you agree? Because I have pushed the changes and it will build in 4 mins. Oct 28 16:56:29 <a2ny> ;) Oct 28 16:56:53 <oil> i was laughing at "Stugots: just like there are 55 versions of the 4x4 patch" Oct 28 16:57:02 <dBsooner> yeah, I know. Oct 28 16:57:05 <Stugots> :D Oct 28 16:57:12 <dBsooner> But those actually change functionality Oct 28 16:57:28 <dBsooner> What I changed is strictly behind the scenes stuff. Oct 28 16:57:35 <oil> i've got the v3 icon patch Oct 28 16:57:40 <oil> imho, its the best Oct 28 16:58:37 <dBsooner> yep, me too Oct 28 16:58:47 <dBsooner> oil: did you put the "no titles" with it? Oct 28 16:58:49 <dBsooner> I like that. Oct 28 16:58:51 <oil> no Oct 28 16:58:53 <oil> i like titles Oct 28 17:00:38 <a2ny> oil: blah, so I need someone that knows js to css to fix the padding Oct 28 17:00:52 <oil> aye? Oct 28 17:00:55 <a2ny> else you get pretty 'static' borders around the terminal app :D Oct 28 17:01:35 <a2ny> I don't know how to reference the preferenced bg color back to css Oct 28 17:01:47 <a2ny> so the scene can pick it up Oct 28 17:08:41 <oil> oh Oct 28 17:08:53 <oil> palm giving out raw feeds for catalog apps Oct 28 17:10:31 <AnOutsider> ipk feeds? or just rss with info Oct 28 17:10:39 <oil> they don't say Oct 28 17:10:55 <oil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGoPQvax10U Oct 28 17:11:13 <oil> the guy clapping when they say it is probably rick Oct 28 17:11:13 <oil> xD Oct 28 17:11:29 <a2ny> lol Oct 28 17:11:33 <a2ny> the only guy that claps Oct 28 17:11:47 <oil> lol Oct 28 17:14:12 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, do I agree with what Oct 28 17:15:10 <oil> everything Oct 28 17:16:04 <Robi_> rwhitby: i had similar issues with my GPS while I was in Hawaii recently Oct 28 17:16:31 <Robi_> the old G1 geotagged pics nicely, but the pre had a terrible time finding coordinates Oct 28 17:17:14 <en0x> y is that? Oct 28 17:18:04 <AZero> probably because it disabled GPS whenever not in use and it takes a bit to realign satellites, but people want to open the camera and take it and close it Oct 28 17:18:36 <en0x> right Oct 28 17:20:08 <en0x> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNh39h02zYI&feature=related lol Oct 28 17:20:09 <Robi_> i thought of that too on the lava fields and kept the pre 'on' Oct 28 17:20:59 <Robi_> i also used the waypoint apps to continually try to get position fixed.. it took ~5-7 min to get any data and then it wasn't converging to kinds useless Oct 28 17:21:40 <Robi_> so its more the default requiring active data connectino bit Oct 28 17:32:11 <Robi_> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/206982-palm-pre-gps-additional-gps-modes-autonomous-assisted-cached.html Oct 28 17:37:08 <a2ny> anyone know how to javascript css ? Oct 28 17:38:29 * oil doesn't know what you mean Oct 28 17:40:01 <a2ny> javascript to format divs in html scene Oct 28 17:40:33 <oil> like element.style.background = '#000'; Oct 28 17:41:54 <oil> ? Oct 28 17:59:16 <a2ny> yes Oct 28 18:02:53 <a2ny> right now I am fully padded, works great, until you change the color from anything except black, then you have black borders Oct 28 18:11:12 <A2NY> silly crashing windows =\ Oct 28 18:15:57 <egaudet_work> sorry Oct 28 18:18:05 <A2NY> awk '{print $6,$7,$8,$9,$10,$11,$12,$13,$14}' Oct 28 18:18:14 <A2NY> is there a bettery way to handle that =\ Oct 28 18:19:44 <en0x> for sure there is Oct 28 18:20:04 <FreeTim3> yep for (i=4; i<NF; i++) print Oct 28 18:20:48 <FreeTim3> or you know, for (i=6, i<15; i++) print $i Oct 28 18:27:09 <egaudet_work> A2NY, cut -d' ' -f6-14 Oct 28 18:27:25 <egaudet_work> where -d is your delmiter (I assumed space) Oct 28 18:28:21 <A2NY> this is all I am doing.. Oct 28 18:28:28 <A2NY> cat /var/log/messages | grep BATTERY Oct 28 18:30:32 <egaudet_work> ? Oct 28 18:31:27 <A2NY> thanks egaudet Oct 28 19:04:51 <navinag> does anyany one why du -h and df -h in /var yields different results Oct 28 19:15:40 <egaudet_work> lsof | grep /var Oct 28 19:30:09 <Stugots> what is the link to the 1.2.1 webos dr image Oct 28 19:30:44 <oil> its on the wiki Oct 28 19:31:58 <Stugots> yeah i cant find it Oct 28 19:32:01 <Stugots> i hate the wiki Oct 28 19:32:13 <Stugots> there is no heirarchy Oct 28 19:32:27 <Stugots> and lots of orphan pages Oct 28 19:32:33 <oil> lol Oct 28 19:32:54 <FreeTim3> Thank you for volunteering to fix our wiki Oct 28 19:33:06 <oil> i usually search for "doctor" Oct 28 19:33:09 <oil> and find this page Oct 28 19:33:10 <oil> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Oct 28 19:33:11 <a2ny> hi Oct 28 19:33:25 <Stugots> oil: see i search for webos doctor Oct 28 19:33:30 <Stugots> and just get the md5sum pages Oct 28 19:33:40 <oil> its linked at the top of the md5sum page Oct 28 19:34:01 <Stugots> oil: there are LOTS of md5sum pages Oct 28 19:34:03 <a2ny> testing from irssi Oct 28 19:34:07 <oil> lol Oct 28 19:34:16 <Stugots> oil: and this page does not say what version this is Oct 28 19:34:29 <oil> i thought hte link was always to the newest Oct 28 19:34:44 <Stugots> no i dont beleive that to be true Oct 28 19:35:03 <oil> well, if thats not it, idk what it is Oct 28 19:35:54 <Stugots> FreeTim3: there is no way i could fix the wiki with out breaking it, i would need to start from scratch Oct 28 19:36:11 <Stugots> and its just easier to ask in here than search on the wiki Oct 28 19:36:50 <egaudet_work> I'm fairly certain the link on that page is to 1.2.1 Oct 28 19:39:30 <destinal> oil: it USED to always be the latest version back when there was only one URL for webos doctor Oct 28 19:39:57 <oil> well i thought people were updating it when the new one was found Oct 28 19:40:18 <destinal> oil: now they've added a random 8 character directory name to the path to uniquely identify a given version and prevent us from guessing the filename Oct 28 19:40:19 <Stugots> i tought there was more than one url Oct 28 19:40:24 <Stugots> and i though old version still existed Oct 28 19:40:30 <destinal> and prevent "accidental" releases like the 1.2.0 Oct 28 19:40:47 <destinal> Stugots: that is how it is NOW but didn't used to be before 1.2.0 came out Oct 28 19:41:07 <Stugots> destinal: which still makes my question valid Oct 28 19:41:09 <destinal> Stugots: before 1.2.0, they just overwrote the file on the CDM Oct 28 19:41:13 <destinal> s/CDM/CDN/ Oct 28 19:41:14 <infobot> destinal meant: Stugots: before 1.2.0, they just overwrote the file on the CDN Oct 28 19:41:41 <gkatsev> get the webosdr via wqi? Oct 28 19:41:51 <destinal> so yeah, someone needs to use their serial # to get the JNLP and look in the JNLP to get the JAR url Oct 28 19:42:28 <destinal> if it hasn't been posted yet Oct 28 19:43:39 <en0x> http://insidesprintnow.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/google-voice-sprint-110809/ Oct 28 19:43:42 <en0x> oh nice Oct 28 19:43:52 <gkatsev> that looks like the 1.2.1 webosdr Oct 28 19:43:57 <oil> when was 1.2.1 released? Oct 28 19:44:07 <gkatsev> a week after 1.2.0 Oct 28 19:44:08 <oil> can look at the history to see if a url was put in after that Oct 28 19:44:57 <Robi_> that was quick Oct 28 19:45:14 <gkatsev> sweet! totally setting that up. Oct 28 19:45:15 <destinal> we should start collecting all the URL's on that page now too and listing what version number each is Oct 28 19:45:49 <Stugots> ++ Oct 28 19:46:00 <Stugots> great... now i forgot why i downloaded the webosdr jar Oct 28 19:48:35 <en0x> lol Oct 28 19:49:53 <Robi_> heh twitterers appreciating the pre USB drive trick Oct 28 19:53:11 <FreeTim3> ? what trick? Oct 28 19:54:29 <en0x> idk some usb drive trick Oct 28 19:54:30 <en0x> ;] Oct 28 19:58:00 <Robi_> oh schweet, there's an update all button in preware now Oct 28 19:58:09 * Robi_ hugz whomever did that Oct 28 19:58:29 <Robi_> not that it does anything yet Oct 28 19:58:47 * Robi_ suspects rwhitby Oct 28 20:02:22 <egaudet_work> what usb drive trick? Oct 28 20:16:57 <odontastic> hmm Oct 28 20:18:52 <A2NY> hmm Oct 28 20:34:21 <Marajin> hmm Oct 28 20:34:29 <Marajin> ya know I think my AIM messaging has broken on my pre Oct 28 20:34:40 <Marajin> it says it can't connect to the server but I'm positive that aim's servers are fine Oct 28 20:39:16 <A2NY> cycle the modem ? Oct 28 20:56:33 <rwhitby> morning Oct 28 20:58:48 <oil> so i see dude never replied to your question about that feature he claims to have added Oct 28 21:03:55 <rwhitby> oil: yep. "the silence is deafening" ;-) Oct 28 21:05:41 <rwhitby> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGoPQvax10U - Dion is talking about Preware at 3:40 ... Oct 28 21:06:09 <Robi_> egaudet: no the new upgrade all button.. rwhitby was that you? Oct 28 21:06:41 <oil> rwhitby: yeah, i bet the one guy who claps at the feeds thing was rick xD Oct 28 21:06:46 <rwhitby> Robi_: it's a planned feature, that's waiting for robust dependencies to be finished Oct 28 21:06:55 <rwhitby> oil: guaranteed Oct 28 21:06:57 <Robi_> kk Oct 28 21:06:59 <oil> yeah, the update all button doesn't do anything Oct 28 21:07:00 <oil> haha Oct 28 21:07:08 * Robi_ still hugs rwhitby Oct 28 21:07:21 <oil> it pops up with something like "this doesn't work yet, lol" Oct 28 21:07:36 * Robi_ had to EPR today Oct 28 21:17:15 <Robi_> ok posted pics on my pre usb boot install post Oct 28 21:22:32 <Mousey> alternative boot? Oct 28 21:23:00 <destinal> Robi_: what post? Oct 28 21:23:05 <destinal> link? Oct 28 21:24:18 <rwhitby> destinal: Robi_ used a Pre to install windows 7 on a PC Oct 28 21:24:47 <rwhitby> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2002802#post2002802 Oct 28 21:26:32 <Robi_> ya that shoudl be it Oct 28 21:26:41 <destinal> oh, neat. basically applies to installing win7 off any usb drive Oct 28 21:26:49 <Robi_> yes Oct 28 21:27:12 <Robi_> cept that's the only large enough one i had Oct 28 21:27:17 <destinal> I've wondered how to do that before, nice writeup Oct 28 21:27:19 <Robi_> ro a bit of pre marketing Oct 28 21:27:25 <Robi_> s/ro/so Oct 28 21:27:41 <Robi_> gathered a crowd ;] Oct 28 21:27:45 <oil> lol Oct 28 21:28:25 * rwhitby hugs SirWill Oct 28 21:28:27 <Robi_> lots of interesting comments.. most start with wtf Oct 28 21:29:01 <oil> why are you hugging sirwill? Oct 28 21:29:04 <rwhitby> oil: looks like SirWill is uploading pictures for the Preware wiki page Oct 28 21:29:53 <rwhitby> (RSS feed on wiki recent changes) Oct 28 21:29:56 <destinal> what would be cool, is to be able to have lots of small livecd's on your pre and then be able to select which one to present. Oct 28 21:30:21 <oil> yeah Oct 28 21:31:52 <Abyssul> Morning Oct 28 21:33:31 <destinal> Abyssul: good afternoon :) Oct 28 21:36:50 <rwhitby> destinal: with control of the usb drive stuff, you could do that Oct 28 21:37:14 <rwhitby> we need to work out and document how all that stuff works ... Oct 28 21:41:30 <Marajin> a2ny1: sorry for slow reply, I have several times, it's just not working Oct 28 21:43:24 <Marajin> A2NY: Ah there you are :p Oct 28 21:43:43 <Marajin> A2NY: I said sorry for slow reply, I have cycled several times and gtalk signs in fine it's just aim that went bang Oct 28 21:45:23 <Abyssul> hmmm Droid can do multitasking? Oct 28 21:46:21 <A2NY> :D Oct 28 21:48:06 <Abyssul> http://www.billshrink.com/blog/total-cost-of-ownership-motorola-droid-versus-iphone-3gs-versus-palm-pre/ Oct 28 21:56:16 <Abyssul> Is there a way to raise the accelerometer above 4Hz? Oct 28 21:59:59 <Marajin> Abyssul: With a pitch shifter! Oct 28 22:01:44 <Marajin> Abyssul: more seriously though, I assume you're talking about refresh frequency? Oct 28 22:01:51 <Marajin> Abyssul: why would you need more than 4hz? Oct 28 22:02:50 <A2NY> those with the top bar battery percent, when you kill powerd what does it display ? Oct 28 22:03:31 <Marajin> 'lo lingfish Oct 28 22:03:41 <lingfish> yo... my US provider Xen box was down :/ Oct 28 22:11:09 <oil> rwhitby: getAppinfoFile? Oct 28 22:13:20 <A2NY> oil, im lazy Oct 28 22:13:35 <A2NY> get my borders working with the terminal pref Oct 28 22:13:38 <oil> A2NY welcome to the club Oct 28 22:13:42 <freakout> rwhitby: just received word from Palm (finally). SIM issues should be fixed with next webOS update Oct 28 22:14:17 <freakout> off to work. sigh Oct 28 22:14:23 <oil> sux Oct 28 22:14:46 * freakout-work nods Oct 28 22:15:01 <patm> i'm trying to do the 'turn off after x time' patch. i've done it before and it has worked fine, but now if i add options to the availableTimers list they aren't showing up in the Screen and Lock, turn off after listbox. any thoughts about this are appreciated. Oct 28 22:15:09 <dBsooner> oil Oct 28 22:15:13 <A2NY> oil Oct 28 22:15:16 <oil> now now Oct 28 22:15:18 <freakout-work> oil Oct 28 22:15:21 <oil> lol Oct 28 22:15:47 <dBsooner> What are the chances of lowering the font by 1 or 2 pt's for the patches list? Oct 28 22:16:01 <oil> why? Oct 28 22:16:43 <dBsooner> Just to get those precious 2 or 3 more letters onthe the screen Oct 28 22:16:49 <oil> lol Oct 28 22:16:49 <freakout-work> dBsooner, just fork preware. xD Oct 28 22:17:03 <dBsooner> freakout-work: Aye.. I bet the Installer guy would do it. Oct 28 22:17:15 <oil> then make wild clames of all the additions you've made that are invisible in the code Oct 28 22:17:22 <dBsooner> yes Oct 28 22:17:25 <dBsooner> It's a new language.. Oct 28 22:17:29 <freakout-work> Better Installer: now with shrooms Oct 28 22:17:39 <A2NY> I forked preware and made it faster Oct 28 22:17:42 <dBsooner> "Ghost Code" Oct 28 22:17:44 <oil> lol Oct 28 22:17:54 <zsoc> lulz Oct 28 22:17:56 <freakout-work> lol. you could make a bill cosby movie outta that i'm sure Oct 28 22:18:11 <zsoc> I'm so glad I came back just in time for that statement Oct 28 22:18:17 <zsoc> freakout-work, also, good ghost dad reference Oct 28 22:18:21 * Mousey updates feeds Oct 28 22:18:38 <PreMan> Anyone here want to try to break a simple transposition cipher? Oct 28 22:18:39 <freakout-work> zsoc, is any ghost dad reference a good reference? xD Oct 28 22:18:56 * zsoc wonders if this is #webos-cracking Oct 28 22:19:04 <zsoc> Where's Puff at? Oct 28 22:19:18 <PreMan> Someone please break the following simple transposition cipher, here's the ciphertext --> ohceltoetstscefreppinoaterosnemecrovhssiweinehfetlosulpjboaatlciaprofnoim Oct 28 22:19:28 <dBsooner> zsoc: slap Stugots and he'll tell you. Oct 28 22:19:35 * zsoc pokes Stugots Oct 28 22:19:39 <oil> Puff = Stugots Oct 28 22:19:54 <freakout-work> I liked Puff better Oct 28 22:20:13 <dBsooner> oil, really though. Like any chance? Oct 28 22:20:32 * freakout-work thinks oil should add a Prefs option to let the user choose font size Oct 28 22:20:47 <zsoc> Where's the best documentation on how to package a script/patch for the webos patches feed? Oct 28 22:20:49 <freakout-work> which is prolly a total PITA, but we'd love you for it. Oct 28 22:20:57 <zsoc> oil, also, how's wIRCd going? Oct 28 22:21:05 <Mousey> http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/ssw/cs355/proj3 Oct 28 22:21:16 <oil> dBsooner: idk, i think the font size is good how it is, just make your names shorter Oct 28 22:21:19 <Mousey> PreMan: --^ Oct 28 22:21:25 <oil> zsoc: still waiting on the service Oct 28 22:21:27 <freakout-work> oil, i also have a strange rash on my thigh. Can you recommend a good analgesic cream, or should i just stop rubbing it against foreign objects? Oct 28 22:21:27 <zsoc> Mousey, nice find Oct 28 22:21:31 <PreMan> lol Oct 28 22:21:35 <oil> afaik it hasn't even been started yet Oct 28 22:21:36 <zsoc> oil, how much have we tried to bribe Puff so far? Oct 28 22:21:40 <dBsooner> oil: It's hard. I am trying to make them as short as possible. But some of these patches are next to impossible. Oct 28 22:21:53 <oil> freakout-work: keep rubbing against foreign objects Oct 28 22:21:56 <patm> in fact, if i change any of the values to be gt 180 it fails Oct 28 22:21:58 * corq-FL is just watching the oil pile-on Oct 28 22:22:00 <A2NY> mine was easy :P Oct 28 22:22:07 <dBsooner> And if rwhitby's poll comes back as the community wants to be able to name things themselves, it will make it even harder. Oct 28 22:22:16 <dBsooner> Right now it's about 23 characters Oct 28 22:23:21 <oil> yeah, and im thinking about making it 2 lines in the list and maybe in the view scene Oct 28 22:23:25 <oil> i just haven't decided yet Oct 28 22:24:24 <patm> tharris-, can i ask you a question about your turn off after x patch? Oct 28 22:25:16 <zsoc> Where's the best documentation on how to package a script/patch for the webos patches feed? Oct 28 22:25:44 <A2NY> aren't they auto packaged ? Oct 28 22:25:49 <dBsooner> 2 lines wouldn't be a great idea. That would look bad for those that don't need 2 lines. Oct 28 22:26:07 <oil> have you seen the app catalog? Oct 28 22:26:11 <oil> it does 2 lines just fine Oct 28 22:26:14 <dBsooner> oh Oct 28 22:26:19 * dBsooner doesn't do app catalog often Oct 28 22:28:10 <Stugots> zsoc: i havent recieved any bribes yet Oct 28 22:28:41 <Stugots> and i didnt know i had to pick nicks that made people feel happy Oct 28 22:30:53 * patm slaps tharris- around a bit with a large trout Oct 28 22:30:55 <zsoc> Stugots, oh there you are. How did you go about your ip forwarding bit? Did you just enable usbnet, set DisableIpForwarding to 1 in PmConnectionManager, and iptables something like... iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE ? Oct 28 22:31:40 <Stugots> zsoc: my service mounts a new proc to /tmp/proc Oct 28 22:31:55 <zsoc> Stugots, is your service released? Oct 28 22:31:58 <Stugots> and it creates a fifo called /dev/freeTether/ip_forward Oct 28 22:32:12 <Stugots> and i mount --bind that over the real ip_forward Oct 28 22:32:18 <zsoc> Oh, that's very... efficient :P Oct 28 22:32:21 <zsoc> and safe, actually Oct 28 22:32:28 <Stugots> and i use libnotify Oct 28 22:32:37 <Stugots> to see who tries to write to that fifo Oct 28 22:32:43 <Stugots> and if tis a palm service i block the write Oct 28 22:32:57 <Stugots> if its any other service i relay it to the alternate ip_forward Oct 28 22:33:02 <zsoc> ok ok , we're all impressed, so give me the service :P Oct 28 22:34:05 <Stugots> lol Oct 28 22:34:15 <Stugots> u just need to stop PmConnectionManager Oct 28 22:34:15 <zsoc> Stugots, i mean, 'let me test it for you' Oct 28 22:34:21 <Stugots> and set ip_forward to 1 Oct 28 22:34:29 <Stugots> and then enable nat Oct 28 22:34:34 <Stugots> look in /tmp Oct 28 22:34:41 <Stugots> for a dir like pm<something> Oct 28 22:34:43 <Stugots> i forget Oct 28 22:34:46 <Stugots> in that dir is another file Oct 28 22:34:52 <Stugots> write interface=usb0 Oct 28 22:34:58 <Stugots> then restart dnsmasq Oct 28 22:35:05 <zsoc> hm Oct 28 22:35:07 <Stugots> and thene verything should work Oct 28 22:35:14 <zsoc> i assume static ip only? Oct 28 22:35:22 <Stugots> umm Oct 28 22:35:25 <Stugots> no Oct 28 22:35:28 <Stugots> u can do dhcp Oct 28 22:35:31 <Stugots> but u have to add another line Oct 28 22:35:37 <Stugots> to that file Oct 28 22:35:52 <Stugots> if u look in /etc/dnsmasq.conf Oct 28 22:35:55 <Stugots> u will see Oct 28 22:35:59 <Stugots> but dont edit that file Oct 28 22:36:02 <Stugots> edit the file in /tmp Oct 28 22:38:12 <zsoc> I got ip forwarding working pretty well with the aformentioned iptables setting. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to Aunt Minnie it.. but I guess the best option is wait for you to finish your service :P Oct 28 22:45:49 <patm> tharris- ayt? Oct 28 22:46:15 <Stugots> zsoc: u dont need to auntminne it Oct 28 22:46:19 <Stugots> im making a service/gui for it Oct 28 22:46:48 <rwhitby> oil: yes, getAppinfoFile(package:string) Oct 28 22:47:02 <Stugots> unless u are trying to steal my project ;) Oct 28 22:49:46 <zsoc> Stugots, no :( just trying to get a friend to stop bothering me Oct 28 22:50:07 <zsoc> Stugots, maybe i can help with your project :D plus the faster you get it fun, the faster wIRC service happens Oct 28 22:50:08 <oil> rwhitby: it doesn't seem to be returning the appinfo Oct 28 22:51:08 <rwhitby> oil: I thought I tested it, but will do so again now Oct 28 22:52:57 <rwhitby> oil: seems to work for me Oct 28 22:53:32 <rwhitby> oil: I get a size field and a contents field, and the contents field contains the raw contents of the appinfo file Oct 28 22:53:50 <Robi_> rwhitby: so you gonna stick with the changed GPS settings? Oct 28 22:55:02 <rwhitby> Robi_: well, neither stock nor changed settings work, so it doesn't really matter ... Oct 28 22:55:30 <Robi_> o rly? why Oct 28 22:55:41 <Robi_> thread seemed to indicate improvement Oct 28 22:55:58 <rwhitby> Robi_: no-one else in the thread is in the southern hemisphere ... Oct 28 22:56:01 <Robi_> only for US phones? Oct 28 22:56:28 <Robi_> ah, well once you do get a fix, it should help Oct 28 22:56:40 <rwhitby> Palm are aware of the problem, have requested further information from me, and I have sent them the lowest-level debug trace possible. Oct 28 22:56:42 <Robi_> sat pos fix that is Oct 28 22:56:53 <Robi_> sweet Oct 28 22:56:53 <zsoc> rwhitby, that sounds.... very long Oct 28 22:57:05 <rwhitby> zsoc: 210KB long for a single fix attempt Oct 28 22:57:15 <Robi_> why dont they just hire you Oct 28 22:57:24 <zsoc> Robi_, they couldn't pay him enough Oct 28 22:57:29 <Abyssul> why don't they just implement any of our patches? Oct 28 22:57:36 <oil> rwhitby: ah, i was calling the wrong one :( Oct 28 22:57:41 <Abyssul> There are a lot of questions we have for Palm :) Oct 28 22:57:54 <A2NY> I thought we knew them all =\ Oct 28 22:57:59 <Robi_> more fun this way Oct 28 22:58:07 <rwhitby> Robi_: if they hired me, I wouldn't be able to do any of the webos-internals stuff that I currently do. Oct 28 22:58:18 <Robi_> probably Oct 28 22:58:26 <rwhitby> Robi_: so it's likely that webos-internals is more valuable being separate from Palm Oct 28 22:58:41 <Robi_> checks and balances Oct 28 22:58:53 <rwhitby> more about supported and unsupporte Oct 28 22:58:55 <rwhitby> d Oct 28 22:59:17 <Robi_> stays more of a passion Oct 28 23:06:15 <bhern> so any folks here at the Sprint developer conference? Oct 28 23:06:38 <Robi_> virtually.. on twitter ;] Oct 28 23:06:47 <oil> rwhitby: think its safe to assume that anything with an appinfo is of 'Application' type Oct 28 23:08:29 <OrtwinR2> Is there a way to enter { and } on the terminal app? Oct 28 23:08:59 <Stugots> bhern: just rick i beleive and he is "not here" cause he is at the conference Oct 28 23:09:16 <Flashpass> I just got back from the conference :) Oct 28 23:09:48 <rwhitby> OrtwinR2: the latest Terminal has a help screen with those things Oct 28 23:10:21 <oil> but, there isn't a way to enter {} in terminal Oct 28 23:10:22 <Abyssul> Wow people can be stupid sometimes... Oct 28 23:10:46 <rwhitby> Abyssul: more than half the population is of below-average intelligence ... Oct 28 23:11:11 * rwhitby sometimes includes himself in that lower half ... Oct 28 23:11:28 <Robi_> to blend in i'm sure Oct 28 23:11:35 <rwhitby> more often than not on Monday mornings ... Oct 28 23:11:39 <OrtwinR2> Cool, didn't know about the help screen, yet, but as far as I can tell, { and } are missing... Oct 28 23:12:25 <rwhitby> Flashpass: has Rick done his talk yet? Oct 28 23:12:25 <oil> yeah, you can't do {} in terminal Oct 28 23:12:51 <Robi_> where is the vCrumbs app ? Oct 28 23:13:07 <rwhitby> oil: is that just cause we didn't have a spare mapping to put it on, or a more fundamental reason? Oct 28 23:13:43 <oil> idk Oct 28 23:13:48 <oil> i just know its not possible Oct 28 23:16:46 * Mousey erases awk Oct 28 23:16:49 <Mousey> won't be needing that i guess Oct 28 23:17:16 <Stugots> i wonder if we can get palm to replace vi with vim Oct 28 23:17:30 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:17:51 <Stugots> in fact, i have a huge todo/wishlist for palm Oct 28 23:18:24 <rwhitby> Stugots: they've got this forum thing happening with a spot for that on developer.palm.com ... Oct 28 23:18:30 <oil> i think you should get johns email Oct 28 23:18:32 <oil> and let him know Oct 28 23:18:38 <oil> LOL Oct 28 23:18:40 <Stugots> oil: john who? Oct 28 23:18:49 <rwhitby> oil's mate John Oct 28 23:19:14 <oil> isn't that his first name? Oct 28 23:19:33 <oil> Jon Oct 28 23:19:37 <oil> sorry, no h Oct 28 23:19:37 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:19:44 <Flashpass> +rwhitby: I'm not sure where his talk is/was, I don't know who he is to be honest :) Oct 28 23:19:53 <oil> Jon Rubinstein Oct 28 23:20:20 <rwhitby> Flashpass: he's the one with the webos-internals logo on his name badge, who stands up in all the Palm sessions and evangelises about webos-internals ... Oct 28 23:21:06 <rwhitby> he's doing the webOS and Open Source talk. Oct 28 23:22:11 <Flashpass> ah okay, I thik that is happening right now Oct 28 23:22:13 <Flashpass> or just ended Oct 28 23:22:23 <Flashpass> I had to go back top the office so I missed it Oct 28 23:23:13 <Flashpass> 345-430pm PST, he's probably finishing up now Oct 28 23:24:14 <Stugots> rwhitby: i havent been to their site since i got that e-mail saying the domain was changing Oct 28 23:26:43 <Stugots> well from what rick was saying the otherday about not many palm devs knowing/using our wiki i'd say after they hear his talk we get an influx of nice apps/services/plugins etc. Oct 28 23:28:05 * oil hopes so Oct 28 23:28:18 <Flashpass> they gave away rediculous amounts of stuff at the conference, was awesome Oct 28 23:28:29 <A2NY> any pixi's ;) Oct 28 23:29:15 <rwhitby> Flashpass: HTC did, did anyone else? Oct 28 23:29:21 <Flashpass> haha not that I saw, I got an HTC Hero and a BB Tour though, and a 4g usb adapter...super generous lol Oct 28 23:29:57 <Flashpass> HTC gave the most out, anyone who did coding the first day got one, and gave one away every ten minutes the following day during booth times Oct 28 23:31:54 <A2NY> impressive, go you Oct 28 23:32:28 <Flashpass> Yeah, was very fortunate, need to ask the boss to goto more conferences Oct 28 23:33:02 <PatchWelcomed> rwhitby: ^^ Oct 28 23:33:45 * rwhitby context switches, and wonders why he bothered ... Oct 28 23:34:38 * PatchWelcomed is confused. Oct 28 23:36:43 <dBsooner> egaudet, rwhitby: What do you all think of my idea to change the names of patches, but keeping them "upgradeable"? (WITHOUT having to have a separate $NAME from $TITLE.) Oct 28 23:37:16 <rwhitby> dBsooner: at what point do you remove the old package from the feed? Oct 28 23:37:27 <dBsooner> 30 days? Oct 28 23:37:42 <dBsooner> 90 days? Oct 28 23:38:08 <dBsooner> I would say no more than 90 because of the "hopeful" lifecycle of WebOS. Oct 28 23:38:32 <egaudet> I'm pretty sure it was my idea so you know how I feel Oct 28 23:38:35 <dBsooner> but I guess that doesn't really matter. Oct 28 23:38:41 <dBsooner> LOL Oct 28 23:38:51 <dBsooner> I thought your idea was the other way Oct 28 23:38:58 <Abyssul> Can anyone find out why the "<3" doesn't change to the icon in incoming text messages but they do for outgoing? Oct 28 23:39:05 <dBsooner> I apologize, "...what do you think of Eric's idea"? Oct 28 23:39:08 <egaudet> I'm confused Oct 28 23:39:34 <dBsooner> So what I described is your exact idea? Oct 28 23:39:44 <egaudet> Are you talking about the dummy package upgrade that just removes the package? Oct 28 23:39:46 <dBsooner> I guess it finally clicked what you had told me. Oct 28 23:40:16 <dBsooner> Kind of. Oct 28 23:40:21 <egaudet> or do you have a different idea? Oct 28 23:40:33 <dBsooner> It would just be an upgrade package that let the user know there is an "upgrade" for their current package Oct 28 23:41:00 <dBsooner> but the DESC would say, "<NAME> is NOW OBSOLETE. PLEASE REMOVE IT AND INSTALL <NEW_NAME>." Oct 28 23:41:10 <egaudet> yea that's what I had in mind Oct 28 23:41:12 <dBsooner> and of course Preware has the "REMOVE" button. Oct 28 23:41:18 <egaudet> except the upgrade would just be a return 1 in postinst Oct 28 23:41:22 <dBsooner> It would be even better if it wasn't "installable" Oct 28 23:41:53 <oil> wow Oct 28 23:42:01 <oil> im a little shocked that ../packageid/icon.png works Oct 28 23:42:02 <egaudet> it can't not be installable Oct 28 23:42:03 <dBsooner> and since it returned 1, it would cause a ipkg remove Oct 28 23:42:03 <egaudet> it's a package Oct 28 23:42:06 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:42:27 <egaudet> yea return 1 will make ipkgservice "remove" it Oct 28 23:42:36 <rwhitby> alternatively, we could add support for Supercedes: in Preware ... Oct 28 23:42:51 <oil> we're addin what now? Oct 28 23:42:52 <dBsooner> Yeah, that's what I had in mind. I guess I just didn't realize it was your exact message. Oct 28 23:43:06 <dBsooner> rwhitby: That would be awesome! Oct 28 23:43:17 <rwhitby> oil: ipkg supports a Supercedes: field Oct 28 23:43:22 <dBsooner> and have the IPKG_SERVICE look for a "SUPERCEDE" Oct 28 23:43:29 <rwhitby> I'm not sure how we'd use it yet. Oct 28 23:43:45 <dBsooner> so if there is a NEW_PACKAGE that is a SUPERCEDE for PACKAGE, it shows NEW_PACKAGE as the upgrade Oct 28 23:43:51 <rwhitby> oil: It's similar to Conflicts: Oct 28 23:43:58 <oil> ah Oct 28 23:47:04 <egaudet> Supercedes support would be ideal Oct 28 23:47:18 <oil> hmm Oct 28 23:47:41 * dBsooner agrees. Oct 28 23:52:14 <egaudet> alright i'll be back in a bit Oct 28 23:53:07 <dBsooner> that a hint eric? Oct 28 23:53:10 <dBsooner> egaudet: .. Oct 28 23:53:47 <oil> well Oct 28 23:54:08 <oil> application packages not in a feed look sexy now Oct 28 23:54:25 <dBsooner> new icon? Oct 28 23:54:26 <dBsooner> :D Oct 28 23:54:45 <oil> loading it right out of the app directory Oct 28 23:54:49 <dBsooner> nice Oct 28 23:54:55 <oil> which i didn't think would work Oct 28 23:55:05 <oil> i guess technically i could load any file or javascript from any app Oct 28 23:55:06 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:55:25 <dBsooner> Could having the icons preloaded into the directory and redered from there speed up load? Oct 28 23:55:42 <oil> download them? Oct 28 23:55:44 <dBsooner> in reference to all icons we currently use Oct 28 23:55:55 <dBsooner> Possibly. Store then in a cache Oct 28 23:56:01 <oil> so really, you're thinking about patch icons Oct 28 23:56:08 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 23:56:11 <dBsooner> at first Oct 28 23:56:18 <dBsooner> but then creating a cache download Oct 28 23:56:51 <dBsooner> s/cache download/download cache/ Oct 28 23:56:52 <infobot> dBsooner meant: but then creating a download cache Oct 29 00:05:01 <oil> rwhitby: what was control info for again? Oct 29 00:09:00 <rwhitby> oil: it returns the .control file from the original ipkg Oct 29 00:10:08 * Stugots is craving some Sim City 4 for some reason Oct 29 00:10:25 <Stugots> daa daa da da daaaa Oct 29 00:10:31 <Stugots> ^^ sim city theme song Oct 29 00:10:36 <oil> oh no, gonna boot to windows? Oct 29 00:10:41 <Stugots> oil: Wine Oct 29 00:10:45 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:10:48 <Stugots> oil: i wil never run windows Oct 29 00:10:50 <Stugots> ever gain Oct 29 00:10:55 <oil> imho, sim city 2000 was the best one Oct 29 00:11:00 <Stugots> naaa Oct 29 00:11:02 <Stugots> 4 is good Oct 29 00:11:04 <oil> 2 was shit Oct 29 00:11:09 <Stugots> 2000 was nice Oct 29 00:11:10 <oil> 4 is ok Oct 29 00:11:17 <Stugots> 3000 sucked Oct 29 00:11:18 <oil> i mean, 3 was shit Oct 29 00:11:19 <Stugots> 4 was good Oct 29 00:11:26 <oil> 4 was better then 3, but not as good as 2000 Oct 29 00:11:31 <Stugots> ehhh Oct 29 00:11:38 <Stugots> u were in middle school then Oct 29 00:11:39 <Mousey> the Simcity 2K Network Edition was the best Oct 29 00:11:43 <Stugots> every was sweet then Oct 29 00:11:52 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:11:53 <Stugots> Mousey: NE was stupid Oct 29 00:11:57 <oil> hell Oct 29 00:11:58 <Mousey> it was awesome! Oct 29 00:12:00 <Stugots> when i got that, it didnt work Oct 29 00:12:04 <oil> the first sim city was better then 3000 Oct 29 00:12:05 <Mousey> i wish the contemporaries were as cool Oct 29 00:12:06 <oil> lets behonest Oct 29 00:12:10 <Stugots> haha Oct 29 00:12:14 <Mousey> =P Oct 29 00:12:20 <Stugots> we need PreCity network edition Oct 29 00:12:23 <Mousey> s/as cool/networkable/ Oct 29 00:12:31 <Mousey> totally. with ESCROW Oct 29 00:12:39 <Mousey> that was cool. had to WAIT to used bought land Oct 29 00:12:51 <oil> im thinking doing that with javascript/html is going to be shit Oct 29 00:12:51 <Stugots> idk... the whole region concept in 4 is cool Oct 29 00:12:54 <Mousey> could make contracts between mayors Oct 29 00:12:57 <Mousey> that was awesome sauce Oct 29 00:12:59 <Stugots> oil: in JS Oct 29 00:13:00 <Stugots> fuck that Oct 29 00:13:00 <oil> gonna have to do it with a plugin Oct 29 00:13:04 <Stugots> do it in plugin Oct 29 00:13:06 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:13:13 <Stugots> when we get directfb shit working Oct 29 00:13:16 * oil would play it Oct 29 00:13:20 <Stugots> me too Oct 29 00:13:23 * Mousey would play that with oil Oct 29 00:13:26 <Stugots> that woul dbe the last app ever made Oct 29 00:13:32 <Stugots> cause everyone would be busy playing Oct 29 00:13:33 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:13:35 <rwhitby> just run the existing treo one under classic ... Oct 29 00:13:36 <Mousey> ha Oct 29 00:13:38 <oil> except for civilization Oct 29 00:13:41 <Mousey> oooh Oct 29 00:13:43 <Mousey> PreCiv Oct 29 00:13:48 <Mousey> based on FreeCiv anyone? Oct 29 00:13:59 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 29 00:14:03 <Stugots> Civilcation 4 and Simcity4 are the only games i play on pc any more Oct 29 00:14:07 * oil waits for mousey to finish it Oct 29 00:14:08 <Stugots> Civ 4 w/ mods ftw! Oct 29 00:14:11 * Mousey thinks . o O ( best thread Evar! ) Oct 29 00:14:26 <Mousey> i've played months long games of freeciv Oct 29 00:14:35 <Stugots> freeciv? Oct 29 00:14:37 <Stugots> is it any good Oct 29 00:14:37 <Mousey> yes Oct 29 00:14:41 <Mousey> it's AWESOME Oct 29 00:14:43 <Mousey> well Oct 29 00:14:44 <Stugots> i cant imagine it being as good as civ 4 Oct 29 00:14:46 <Mousey> it's not Civ4 Oct 29 00:14:46 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:14:49 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:14:49 <Mousey> but it's TOTALLY playable Oct 29 00:14:52 <Stugots> yeah Oct 29 00:14:54 <Mousey> open, extensive Oct 29 00:14:54 <Stugots> but its like Oct 29 00:14:59 <Stugots> '90s graphics Oct 29 00:15:00 <Mousey> fits in ram Oct 29 00:15:02 <Mousey> so what? Oct 29 00:15:04 <oil> its like civ2 Oct 29 00:15:07 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:15:08 <Stugots> yeah Oct 29 00:15:14 <oil> not that civ2 was bad Oct 29 00:15:14 <Stugots> its almost 2012 Oct 29 00:15:15 <Mousey> games are fun because they're fun, not because they're glitzy Oct 29 00:15:20 <Mousey> plus Oct 29 00:15:30 <Stugots> Mayan Cosmogenesis time Oct 29 00:15:33 <Mousey> it's FREE, so porting (the hard part) it is already done Oct 29 00:15:53 <Mousey> good luck getting Sid Meier to port Civ4 Oct 29 00:16:02 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:16:11 <oil> they did simcity on the jesusphone didn't they? Oct 29 00:16:13 <Stugots> Mousey: we can run wine on the pre :D Oct 29 00:16:20 <Mousey> oh there's a solution Oct 29 00:16:23 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:16:29 <Mousey> =P Oct 29 00:16:32 <Mousey> i'm just sayin' Oct 29 00:16:43 <Mousey> it's fun, it's foss, the hard work is done already Oct 29 00:16:51 <Mousey> should get a wesnoth port too, that'd be epic Oct 29 00:17:02 <Mousey> although, freeciv would be more fun, imho Oct 29 00:17:27 <Mousey> and pidgin, and xchat ports.. and Warzone2100 ports! Oct 29 00:17:38 <Mousey> then the Pre will finally be the n900! Oct 29 00:17:41 <Mousey> only cdma Oct 29 00:17:43 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 29 00:17:51 <Stugots> pre can never be n9xx Oct 29 00:17:59 <Mousey> oh Oct 29 00:18:02 <Mousey> n810? Oct 29 00:18:05 <Mousey> with a cel radio? Oct 29 00:18:17 <Mousey> i mean.. all those games already have maemo equivalents Oct 29 00:18:20 <Mousey> tho Maemo runs X Oct 29 00:18:23 <Mousey> so that's a difference Oct 29 00:18:34 <Mousey> higher res too.. Oct 29 00:18:39 <zsoc> freeciv ++ Oct 29 00:19:13 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 29 00:19:52 <Stugots> when is sim 5 comming out? Oct 29 00:19:58 <Stugots> Tekken 6 for ps3 is out Oct 29 00:19:58 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:20:01 <Stugots> thats gonna be money Oct 29 00:20:15 <Mousey> Prekken! Oct 29 00:20:19 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:20:26 <Mousey> now with shake and tilt input! Oct 29 00:20:34 * zsoc travels to the future to watch rod read the backlogs in realtime Oct 29 00:21:21 <oil> this is relevant -internals discussion Oct 29 00:24:30 <Stugots> so for freeTether Oct 29 00:24:31 <Stugots> im thinking Oct 29 00:24:36 <Stugots> instead of just doing ad hoc wifi Oct 29 00:24:45 <oil> gah Oct 29 00:24:45 <Stugots> im gonna let connect to an AP Oct 29 00:24:54 <Stugots> so that lots of pc's can use the pre for internet Oct 29 00:24:55 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:25:06 <rwhitby> Stugots: hostapd ftw Oct 29 00:25:20 <Stugots> rwhitby: does that work with the pre's driver? Oct 29 00:25:25 <rwhitby> Stugots: dunno Oct 29 00:25:26 <Stugots> i didnt think it did Oct 29 00:25:35 <Stugots> or else that would be another option too Oct 29 00:30:57 <rwhitby> Stugots: do you mean you're going to get the Pre to connect to an AP, and publish a route or something, or do you mean you're going to get the Pre to act as an AP? Oct 29 00:31:09 * zsoc wonders why the pre doesn't have lspci installed Oct 29 00:31:14 * zsoc wonders why lspci/usb isn't in busybox Oct 29 00:32:55 <Stugots> yeah, connect to an AP and then if other people add the pre IP as a default gw they should get internet Oct 29 00:33:02 <rwhitby> zsoc: pciutils and lsbutils in optware Oct 29 00:33:20 <zsoc> rwhitby, ah ty Oct 29 00:33:28 <zsoc> also what's this dspbridge thing? Oct 29 00:33:30 <oil> rwhitby: so control is basically the same format as rawlist? Oct 29 00:34:03 <rwhitby> oil: pretty much, but gives you the info for packages that are no longer in the feed. Oct 29 00:34:26 <rwhitby> there may be small differences depending on what ipkg-make-index does in feed index creation Oct 29 00:34:31 <zsoc> hm.. there's no /proc/bus/pci... although there is a /proc/bus/input Oct 29 00:34:56 <rwhitby> oil: e.g. we may fix stuff in the feed index for ipkgs which have bad control file info Oct 29 00:35:00 <zsoc> er, i should say /proc/bus/input/devices Oct 29 00:35:05 <Stugots> zsoc: the kernel devs definately were smoking some crack rock the day the built the kernel Oct 29 00:35:12 <Stugots> zsoc: they disabled so much usefull shit Oct 29 00:35:13 <rwhitby> oil: but the getControlFile will have the bad info, not the fixed info in the feed Oct 29 00:35:19 <zsoc> Stugots, i won't make the remark i was about to Oct 29 00:35:56 <Stugots> zsoc: :( Oct 29 00:36:06 <zsoc> oooo. cat /proc/uptime Oct 29 00:36:15 <Stugots> zsoc: if i change my nick will you? Oct 29 00:36:23 <zsoc> Stugots, most definitely not lol Oct 29 00:36:43 <Stugots> zsoc: u got no stugots :D Oct 29 00:38:27 <rwhitby> zsoc: dsp is used for media codecs - you can see some of them in the filesystem Oct 29 00:38:35 <rwhitby> s/is/seems to be/ Oct 29 00:38:36 <infobot> rwhitby meant: zsoc: dsp seems to be used for media codecs - you can see some of them in the filesystem Oct 29 00:39:37 <Stugots> zsoc: how is the secret project coming? Oct 29 00:40:38 * oil wonders what secret project is now Oct 29 00:45:33 * Stugots wonders if oil can figure it out Oct 29 00:45:41 <rwhitby> oil: the results I've seen from the secret project look promising ... Oct 29 00:45:55 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:46:23 <oil> :( Oct 29 00:46:34 <Stugots> zsoc: u figure out that last issue you had? Oct 29 00:46:39 <Stugots> with the X not working properly in Y Oct 29 00:46:54 <dBsooner> Oh man.. that's worse than Z not seeing X or Y. Oct 29 00:46:58 <Stugots> s/working properly/being detected/ Oct 29 00:46:58 <infobot> Stugots meant: with the X not being detected in Y Oct 29 00:47:33 <dBsooner> I want a cool hostname Oct 29 00:47:37 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ^^ Oct 29 00:47:49 <rwhitby> ice Oct 29 00:47:51 <Stugots> dBsooner: I name my computers after people in WuTang Oct 29 00:47:53 <Stugots> LD Oct 29 00:47:54 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:48:26 <Stugots> i've got a ODB, Methodman, Ghostface, and a Rza Oct 29 00:48:47 <dBsooner> No, they have hostmask's from FreeNode Oct 29 00:48:49 <dBsooner> I want one. :( Oct 29 00:48:52 <Stugots> oh Oct 29 00:48:53 <Stugots> cloaks Oct 29 00:48:56 <dBsooner> yes Oct 29 00:49:01 <Stugots> good luck with that Oct 29 00:49:04 <Stugots> i mean Oct 29 00:49:07 <Stugots> u can get a generic one Oct 29 00:49:09 <Stugots> easily Oct 29 00:49:16 <dBsooner> Yeah, but that's not as cool. Oct 29 00:49:18 <rwhitby> Exstatica: ping Oct 29 00:49:25 <dBsooner> we should try to get webos-internals Oct 29 00:49:30 <Stugots> but you have to get on your knees and close your eyes and do nasty things to get a project cloak Oct 29 00:49:43 <dBsooner> I vote Stugots goes and does the deed for us. Oct 29 00:49:50 <rwhitby> Stugots: or have someone on staff who likes the project Oct 29 00:49:51 <Stugots> they ar elike 10 years behind giving those out Oct 29 00:49:57 <Stugots> rwhitby: or that ;) Oct 29 00:50:10 <Stugots> or we could move to rizon Oct 29 00:50:11 <dBsooner> rwhitby: know of someone? :D Oct 29 00:50:14 <Stugots> and get them instantly Oct 29 00:50:23 <rwhitby> dBsooner: why do you think I just pinged Exstatica ... Oct 29 00:50:37 <dBsooner> Because he's a friend of yours? ;) Oct 29 00:50:50 <dBsooner> I don't ask why you ping people. Oct 29 00:50:50 <rwhitby> check his cloak ... Oct 29 00:50:51 <zsoc> Stugots, did you suggest my X was not working in my Y? I feel emasculated . Oct 29 00:51:14 <dBsooner> Blah Oct 29 00:51:15 <Stugots> zsoc: no i corrected my statement Oct 29 00:51:22 <dBsooner> freenode/staff means nothing. :D Oct 29 00:51:24 <Stugots> zsoc: i said X wasnt being detected by Y Oct 29 00:51:26 <Stugots> did u fix that/ Oct 29 00:51:28 <Stugots> ? Oct 29 00:52:01 <zsoc> Stugots, since i propagated that problem, i had been away Oct 29 00:52:09 <zsoc> pitty too, i probably could have had it fixed by now Oct 29 00:52:11 <Stugots> oh yeah Oct 29 00:52:20 <dBsooner> Stugots: you use uTorrent in wine/ Oct 29 00:52:25 <zsoc> honestly i might just wait for Pm to fix it at this point, it's such a mess Oct 29 00:52:30 <Stugots> i dont use torrent Oct 29 00:52:34 <Stugots> i use usent and ftp Oct 29 00:52:34 <dBsooner> or is transmission or something similar just as good Oct 29 00:52:46 <dBsooner> boo Oct 29 00:52:50 <Stugots> zsoc: u are like 99% done Oct 29 00:52:58 <Stugots> send me the code when u get a chance Oct 29 00:53:05 <Stugots> and a sample output Oct 29 00:53:25 * Stugots hopes he didnt give away the secret project Oct 29 00:53:29 <dBsooner> I have an account on giganews Oct 29 00:53:48 <dBsooner> But I use torrent for a lot of distro downloads Oct 29 00:53:51 <Stugots> dBsooner: why did you ask Oct 29 00:53:56 <zsoc> Stugots, i don't think it's a secret, but I greatly appreciate your discretion. There is a serious lack of discretion these days. Oct 29 00:54:17 <Stugots> zsoc: im only doing it to piss of oil Oct 29 00:54:19 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:54:23 <dBsooner> Because I am wondering why it's so hard to find a transparent uTorrent icon for the Wine Menu in Gnome Panel. Oct 29 00:54:24 <Stugots> oil: j/k Oct 29 00:54:35 * oil doesn't really care Oct 29 00:54:39 <Stugots> why would u use a windows torrent app in linux Oct 29 00:54:51 <dBsooner> because it is hecka good Oct 29 00:54:52 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:54:56 <Stugots> ok Oct 29 00:54:56 <dBsooner> and the lowest footprint i've ever seen Oct 29 00:55:01 <Stugots> ctorrent? Oct 29 00:55:12 <Stugots> dBsooner: are you using a 386 with 32mb ram? Oct 29 00:55:18 <dBsooner> Yep Oct 29 00:55:19 <dBsooner> :D Oct 29 00:55:21 <Stugots> oh ok Oct 29 00:55:30 <Stugots> then yeah wine isnt a waste Oct 29 00:55:32 <dBsooner> Actually.. I have my old 8086dx2 fired up Oct 29 00:55:43 <dBsooner> 2mb ram Oct 29 00:55:45 <Stugots> ktorrent is pretty nice Oct 29 00:55:48 <dBsooner> which is like KILLER fast Oct 29 00:55:49 <Stugots> if you are kde person Oct 29 00:55:55 * dBsooner is Gnome Oct 29 00:55:56 <Stugots> ctorrent for cli people Oct 29 00:56:09 <Stugots> i dont remember what i used in my gnome days Oct 29 00:56:18 <dBsooner> KDE is too fluffy Oct 29 00:56:18 <Stugots> im a fairly recent kde4 convert Oct 29 00:56:22 <Stugots> naaa Oct 29 00:56:25 <dBsooner> yeahhh Oct 29 00:56:26 <Stugots> its beautiful Oct 29 00:56:31 <Stugots> kde3 was ugly as shit Oct 29 00:56:38 <Stugots> i was a huge gnome fan Oct 29 00:56:40 <dBsooner> better than Compiz fusion? Oct 29 00:56:48 <Stugots> you can use compiz with kde Oct 29 00:56:51 <dBsooner> man we need a new channel Oct 29 00:56:54 <Stugots> compiz is the window manager Oct 29 00:57:02 <dBsooner> #webos-watercooler Oct 29 00:57:06 <Stugots> dBsooner: nothing productive happens in this part of the channel Oct 29 00:57:18 <Stugots> its either aunt minnie talk Oct 29 00:57:21 <Stugots> or BS like now Oct 29 00:57:22 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:57:24 <dBsooner> heh Oct 29 00:57:32 <dBsooner> Hey now.. there are some arguments Oct 29 00:57:35 <dBsooner> that lead to production Oct 29 00:57:49 <dBsooner> i.e. SUPERCEDE.. *Cough* oil *cough* Oct 29 00:58:11 <dBsooner> not so much arguments as discussions. Oct 29 01:00:52 <dBsooner> Karmic launches very very soon Oct 29 01:02:56 * zsoc builds a box to test karmic on Oct 29 01:03:35 <dBsooner> So Stugots. Oct 29 01:04:07 <dBsooner> I installed the omnibox module. Oct 29 01:04:18 <dBsooner> s/omnibox/omnibook/ Oct 29 01:04:18 <infobot> dBsooner meant: I installed the omnibook module. Oct 29 01:04:47 <dBsooner> it made my fans work more efficiently, and made my Fn+F6,F7 (brightness) keys work.. Oct 29 01:05:24 <dBsooner> But broke my wifi pretty good. Also could never get the laptop to stay turned off after shutdown. Even unloaded the module before shutdown. Still came on at exactly 3 mins powered off. Oct 29 01:05:30 <egaudet> vuze Oct 29 01:07:22 <dBsooner> lol Oct 29 01:07:31 <dBsooner> 2GHz and 1GB of ram as a minimum? Oct 29 01:09:03 <Stugots> dBsooner: well maybe you can modify the source code a little and put ifdefs around the non fan shit Oct 29 01:09:07 <Stugots> so that it dont do anything Oct 29 01:10:21 <dBsooner> or someone should start an ACPI project to create a generic ACPI driver system like MS uses Oct 29 01:10:40 <Stugots> ummm Oct 29 01:10:41 <Stugots> no Oct 29 01:10:47 <Stugots> MS breaks ACPI spec Oct 29 01:10:52 <Stugots> thats the whole issue Oct 29 01:11:03 <Stugots> well Oct 29 01:11:06 <Stugots> no thats wrong Oct 29 01:11:11 <Stugots> there is an ACPI spec Oct 29 01:11:19 <Stugots> toshiba and others dont folllow it Oct 29 01:11:27 <Stugots> then make windows drivers to fix their 1/2 assed ness Oct 29 01:11:33 <dBsooner> Yeah, I am learning toshiba is a crappy lappy Oct 29 01:11:36 <Stugots> which is why linux needs a special driver/module Oct 29 01:11:42 <Stugots> dBsooner: no Oct 29 01:11:46 <Stugots> they just have shitty bioses Oct 29 01:12:03 <dBsooner> Yeah, my Insyde BIOS is very crappy. Oct 29 01:12:04 <Stugots> dBsooner: but to be honest, my toshiba lappy is what got me into kernel hacking Oct 29 01:12:07 <Stugots> which is how i learned C Oct 29 01:12:11 <dBsooner> And I have like NO options to change anything. Oct 29 01:12:17 <Stugots> which is how i learned to use patches Oct 29 01:12:28 <Stugots> dBsooner: just comment out the non fan shit Oct 29 01:12:31 <Stugots> and then rebuild your kernel Oct 29 01:12:34 <Stugots> it shouldnt be hard Oct 29 01:12:46 <dBsooner> yeah, I'll work on that later. Oct 29 01:13:45 <dBsooner> egaudet: you working on this No APp launcher? Oct 29 01:13:49 <dBsooner> or was that for me to do? Oct 29 01:13:54 <egaudet> I haven't worked on it yet Oct 29 01:14:27 <egaudet> If you want to do it you can, I don't have a problem doing it later on though Oct 29 01:16:13 <dBsooner> ill do it now Oct 29 01:16:47 <dBsooner> did you see I committed the change to show actual percent Oct 29 01:18:29 <dBsooner> hmm Oct 29 01:18:36 <dBsooner> app-launcher-no-quick-launcher Oct 29 01:21:55 <dBsooner> egaudet: we need a new name Oct 29 01:22:06 <dBsooner> nah, that works Oct 29 01:22:22 <Abyssul> Can anyone find out why the "<3" doesn't change to the icon in incoming text messages but they do for outgoing? Oct 29 01:23:06 <dBsooner> because it doesn't <3 you Oct 29 01:24:38 <egaudet> name is fine to me Oct 29 01:24:46 <egaudet> does that mean you are doing that one dBsooner ? Oct 29 01:25:17 <dBsooner> I mean I am committing the two that came in Oct 29 01:25:23 <atlanta> hey hey Oct 29 01:25:29 <dBsooner> no-quick-launcher and the newest one Oct 29 01:25:49 <egaudet> are you doing the postinst_extra's? Oct 29 01:25:54 <dBsooner> yes Oct 29 01:25:56 <egaudet> or just commit to gitorious? Oct 29 01:26:01 <dBsooner> im doing both Oct 29 01:26:19 <egaudet> cool, patch meister! Oct 29 01:26:43 <dBsooner> Aww.. shucks. Just call me Daniel or dB, or dBsooner. Oct 29 01:27:02 <egaudet> dBsooner, it's an image replacement, which is like themes Oct 29 01:27:08 <dBsooner> i know Oct 29 01:27:10 <egaudet> and we haven't officially come up with a way to handle this yet Oct 29 01:27:13 <dBsooner> I am looking at the one in themes Oct 29 01:27:14 <egaudet> so want to discuss first Oct 29 01:27:17 <dBsooner> hmm Oct 29 01:27:19 <dBsooner> good idea Oct 29 01:27:33 <dBsooner> i'd say just store the original in the backup area Oct 29 01:27:51 <dBsooner> as long as its md5sum shows its an original and the backup doesn't exist, move it Oct 29 01:28:01 <egaudet> Should we come up with a generic postinst_extra and prerm_extra that operates within autopatch technology so that EPR will recover properly Oct 29 01:28:13 <dBsooner> Might be a good idea. Oct 29 01:29:13 <egaudet> I guess for now the only thing postinst_extra needs to do is backup the orig to .webosinternals.orig Oct 29 01:29:16 <dBsooner> how do you edit the main page on the wiki? Oct 29 01:29:26 <dBsooner> the "portals" link box on the left. Oct 29 01:29:31 <Stugots> egaudet: oh yeah Oct 29 01:29:36 <Stugots> that reminds me Oct 29 01:29:40 <Stugots> egaudet: in the C ipkg service Oct 29 01:29:48 <Stugots> we need to add a way to integrate with the browser Oct 29 01:29:53 <Stugots> so we can do web installs :D Oct 29 01:30:00 <egaudet> hmmm Oct 29 01:30:06 <egaudet> That's dangerous isn't it? Oct 29 01:30:15 <Stugots> no Oct 29 01:30:22 <Stugots> not any more dangerous than feeds Oct 29 01:30:33 <Stugots> it would still use confirmation shit Oct 29 01:30:41 <egaudet> feeds are trusted, if we allow arbitrary url's Oct 29 01:30:46 <Stugots> no they arent Oct 29 01:30:47 <egaudet> that's much more dangerous Oct 29 01:30:50 <egaudet> yes they are Oct 29 01:30:52 <Stugots> feeds are not trusted Oct 29 01:30:55 <egaudet> the default preware feeds are trusted Oct 29 01:30:58 <Stugots> so Oct 29 01:31:01 <egaudet> feeds in package service* Oct 29 01:31:02 <dBsooner> Can we talk about this later? Oct 29 01:31:07 <Stugots> anyone can make a ipkg of a \feed on preware Oct 29 01:31:14 <dBsooner> I want to hammer down this postinst and prerm for images first Oct 29 01:31:27 <Stugots> dBsooner: u cant monopiolize the channel :D Oct 29 01:31:36 <egaudet> yea but that's not the same as going to arbitrary website and installing a package Oct 29 01:31:39 <dBsooner> sigh Oct 29 01:31:48 <Stugots> egaudet: its exactly the same.... Oct 29 01:31:59 <Stugots> precentral dont filter pacakges Oct 29 01:32:07 <Stugots> that i know of Oct 29 01:32:10 <egaudet> precentral is considered trusted feed Oct 29 01:32:16 <rwhitby> Stugots: you can't remove something from a random website. if a feed goes rogure, it can be removed from preware Oct 29 01:32:37 <rwhitby> egaudet: precentral webOS apps is considered trusted feed. we don't pull anything else from there. Oct 29 01:33:16 <egaudet> rwhitby, meaning only standard homebrew apps from precentral? Oct 29 01:33:18 <egaudet> i.e. no postinst Oct 29 01:33:25 <rwhitby> egaudet: correct Oct 29 01:33:32 <rwhitby> since any joe can upload something Oct 29 01:33:33 <Stugots> rwhitby: im not seeing what the issue is a rogue ipkg is still subjected to confirmation service, regardless if its source if a feed or website, why do we need to get into the business of censoring what people can and can not install Oct 29 01:33:40 <Stugots> this is not communist russia Oct 29 01:34:19 <rwhitby> Stugots: people have many means to install stuff from random websites. Preware is not one of those means because it removes one layer of the multi-layered security model. Oct 29 01:34:21 <Stugots> are you gonna remove the whole precentra feed cause of 1 bad app? Oct 29 01:34:44 <rwhitby> Stugots: webOS apps without install scripts cannot be bad Oct 29 01:34:57 <rwhitby> we only accept webOS apps without install scripts from PreCentral Oct 29 01:35:15 <Stugots> you accept everything from precentral ;) Oct 29 01:35:20 <Stugots> err Oct 29 01:35:23 <Stugots> pym Oct 29 01:35:26 <rwhitby> Stugots: and the whole "let's invoke communism to get a reaction" doesn't work on Australians, BTW ... Oct 29 01:35:56 <rwhitby> Stugots: yes, at the moment we do. If you go rogue, that will change. Oct 29 01:36:10 <egaudet> so don't go rogue Oct 29 01:36:22 <Stugots> the "feed" cant go rogue Oct 29 01:36:24 <Stugots> an app can Oct 29 01:36:37 <rwhitby> Stugots: you approve all apps on pym, right? Oct 29 01:36:43 <Stugots> rwhitby: hell no Oct 29 01:36:49 <egaudet> dBsooner, we want to keep track of image changes in backups file, how do we handle a package that wants to overwrite an image that another package already overwrote? Oct 29 01:37:03 <Stugots> rwhitby: i am not in the business of censorship Oct 29 01:37:14 <rwhitby> Stugots: if you don't approve apps on pym which contain install scripts, then we're going to need to filter those out Oct 29 01:37:29 <Stugots> rwhitby: why? Oct 29 01:37:37 <rwhitby> Stugots: references to censorship doesn't work on Australians either ... Oct 29 01:37:46 <rwhitby> Stugots: cause it breaks the chain of trust Oct 29 01:38:08 <Stugots> rwhitby: aussies dont understand the severity of censorship? Oct 29 01:38:13 <Stugots> is that what you are saying? Oct 29 01:38:14 <Joesmith> does the the terminal application support paste? Oct 29 01:38:43 <rwhitby> Stugots: aussies understand what real censorship is, not some idealistic idea of everyone must be able to say anything via any means they want Oct 29 01:38:59 <dBsooner> egaudet: that's the hard point Oct 29 01:39:00 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 01:39:07 <dBsooner> egaudet: no it's not Oct 29 01:39:23 <dBsooner> egaudet: in postinst have it check for $file.webosinternals.orig Oct 29 01:39:32 <rwhitby> if there is a single way possible to install an app with a post-install script, which does not involve Preware, then there is no censorship. Oct 29 01:39:34 <dBsooner> if it's there, deny install. Oct 29 01:39:57 <Stugots> rwhitby: i didnt follow you there Oct 29 01:40:03 <egaudet> dBsooner, how can it deny install Oct 29 01:40:08 <egaudet> the patch has already been applied Oct 29 01:40:20 <dBsooner> no it hasn't. Oct 29 01:40:22 <egaudet> so we'd have to change the generic postinst first to call _extra first rather than last like it currently does Oct 29 01:40:35 <dBsooner> yes Oct 29 01:40:36 <rwhitby> Stugots: there is no basic human right which says that Preware must allow any application from any author with any security profile to be published. Oct 29 01:40:44 <dBsooner> wait Oct 29 01:41:25 <egaudet> Stugots, I can't access any memory region I want directly from userspace on linux... is that censorship? Oct 29 01:42:15 <rwhitby> Stugots: PYM has download links, which anyone can use to install an app which has not been reviewed by someone in the chain of trust, using a tool other than Preware (e.g. WebOS Quick Install), with them taking the responsibility for their actions, and the liability for any results Oct 29 01:43:16 <Stugots> rwhitby: using woqi is not different than using preware Oct 29 01:43:23 <Stugots> they still have to manually choose to install something Oct 29 01:43:33 <Stugots> well preware does it make it 1 step easier Oct 29 01:43:50 <rwhitby> Stugots: exactly, and we're responsible for preware, not wosqi. Oct 29 01:44:51 <Stugots> preware is a installer, it has nothing to do with the content on feeds Oct 29 01:45:19 <rwhitby> it does if it provides those feeds by default Oct 29 01:45:49 <rwhitby> and provides the means (which Palm does not provide) for malware to be transmitted and installed via those feeds ... Oct 29 01:46:18 <Stugots> then we could block all palm.com apps on precentral Oct 29 01:46:30 <Stugots> cause they have the potential to be malware Oct 29 01:46:38 <rwhitby> Stugots: how? Oct 29 01:47:54 <Stugots> they have access to e-mails and pms and other potentially confidential information Oct 29 01:48:00 <rwhitby> since you can install a palm.com app via palm-install or the official Palm APIs, that's Palm's responsibility, not ours. Oct 29 01:48:16 <Stugots> its ours if we all them to be installed via preware Oct 29 01:48:18 <Stugots> using your logic Oct 29 01:48:35 <rwhitby> sorry, but you've not used logic rules there again Oct 29 01:48:46 <rwhitby> a->b does not mean b->a Oct 29 01:50:37 <rwhitby> The responsibility of webos-internals is to make sure we don't decrease the level of security in an unacceptable way below the level that Palm provides. Oct 29 01:50:38 <Stugots> you are saying that we wouldnt allow web installs (which might be malicious) cause we cant block them (with the existing setup) but you blindly accept all com.palm apps from precentral (which might be malicious) Oct 29 01:51:04 <rwhitby> exactly. Oct 29 01:51:23 <rwhitby> for three reasons Oct 29 01:51:36 <Stugots> if we allow potentially risky packages from source A we should allow them from everywhere Oct 29 01:51:55 <rwhitby> 1) It's Palm's problem if a com.palm.* app installed via Palm APIs can do damage Oct 29 01:52:06 <rwhitby> 2) PreCentral can pull a rogue app Oct 29 01:52:13 <rwhitby> 3) PreCentral apps have many eyes Oct 29 01:52:30 <rwhitby> a random web link app does not match any of those Oct 29 01:52:32 <Stugots> we can easily block a package id in the serivcce Oct 29 01:52:41 <Stugots> which is no different that it getting pulled from a feed Oct 29 01:53:02 <Stugots> we can read a blackslist file Oct 29 01:53:09 <Stugots> before allowing an install Oct 29 01:53:36 <rwhitby> blacklists never work, the names just change faster than you can blacklist Oct 29 01:56:32 <Stugots> rwhitby: might as well remove pym now then Oct 29 01:57:03 <rwhitby> Stugots: why? the risk there is minimal at the moment, since you're the only one creating services Oct 29 01:58:26 <Stugots> but im not pre filtering anything Oct 29 01:58:31 <Stugots> nor will I Oct 29 01:59:10 <rwhitby> but if you don't feel that you can manage the risk, and the number of submitters grows to the point where you don't see and know about every submission, then perhaps we need to at least disable it by default. Oct 29 02:00:39 <rwhitby> Stugots: I believe that you know exactly every line of code that is currently on pym Oct 29 02:01:11 <rwhitby> And I doubt that you in particular would let anything on there without knowing exactly what it is too Oct 29 02:01:39 <rwhitby> (no matter how much you protest that you will let anything through on idealogical grounds) Oct 29 02:03:48 <rwhitby> I have the same belief about the canuck-software feed. Oct 29 02:06:39 * rwhitby bbl (lunch) Oct 29 02:24:28 <egaudet> oil, rwhitby, how confident are we in dependency support? Oct 29 02:25:13 <egaudet> if A depends on B, and B gets installed first and postinst runs. Now if A's postinst fails, does B's prerm run? Oct 29 02:27:41 <JayCanuck> woot, finally back to the world of the internets! Oct 29 02:27:42 <egaudet> do cross dependencies work? A and B depend on each other so they can never be installed separately? Oct 29 02:27:48 <egaudet> welcome back! Oct 29 02:28:40 <JayCanuck> wanna hear one of the many emails I received over the last fews days while I was gone, lol Oct 29 02:28:45 <JayCanuck> "how do you watch porn movies with palm pre when i go to the porn site on my phone it s ayn need flash drive how do i get that in my phone" Oct 29 02:29:26 <rwhitby> egaudet: B stays in place if A fails Oct 29 02:29:52 <dBsooner> rwhitby: can you make A tell B to remove if A fails? Oct 29 02:30:10 <rwhitby> dBsooner: no Oct 29 02:30:23 <dBsooner> that doesn't help Oct 29 02:30:47 <rwhitby> dBsooner: what if C also depends on B - why should B be removed just cause A fails? Oct 29 02:31:03 <dBsooner> We basically just want this for postisnt_extra replacement Oct 29 02:31:09 <dBsooner> package A is the patch Oct 29 02:31:18 <dBsooner> package B is the replacements.. like image replacement Oct 29 02:31:41 <rwhitby> nope, can't use dependencies for that Oct 29 02:31:45 * rwhitby bbl Oct 29 02:31:48 <dBsooner> Package A complete success, then package B runs, if it fails, remove A. Oct 29 02:31:50 <dBsooner> doh Oct 29 02:59:35 <egaudet> What's the best way to generically handle image replacements along with patches in one ipkg **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 29 02:59:57 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 28 02:59:58 2009 Oct 28 03:06:30 brb, testing init.d script Oct 28 03:25:39 Is there a way to turn on Dev mode without the touchscreen? Oct 28 03:30:13 Abyssul: meta-doctor Oct 28 03:30:18 a bit drastic ;-) Oct 28 03:44:28 Na, this user wants to retrieve some pictures Oct 28 03:52:16 the meta-doctor will wipe /media/internal ... Oct 28 04:21:43 I hate omnibook! Oct 28 04:21:51 And I give up. Oct 28 04:24:18 rwhitby: Oct 28 04:24:32 yes? Oct 28 04:24:49 Craig made a good point in his post Oct 28 04:25:00 His first paragraph. Oct 28 04:33:29 oil: ping Oct 28 04:34:55 ? Oct 28 04:38:54 oil: would you be willing to TRY dashboard installs on preware? Oct 28 04:39:05 lol Oct 28 04:39:25 yeah, i passed out yesterday and didn't test your game, sorry :/ Oct 28 04:39:41 oil: no worries dawg Oct 28 04:47:35 dBsooner: there is music app patches not using hte music app icon Oct 28 04:47:42 i know Oct 28 04:47:44 I am fixing tha tnow Oct 28 04:47:47 and Oct 28 04:47:48 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Findapps.png Oct 28 04:47:54 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Youtube.png Oct 28 04:47:56 for other new ones Oct 28 04:48:02 That's what I was waitin for Oct 28 04:48:08 what about a "Calculator" Oct 28 04:48:11 "Contacts" Oct 28 04:48:29 Findapps = App Cat? Oct 28 04:48:30 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Contacts.png Oct 28 04:48:33 yeah Oct 28 04:48:41 awesome Oct 28 04:48:56 you addeing those to the Icon page? Oct 28 04:48:57 hi guys. Oct 28 04:49:00 yeah Oct 28 04:49:02 hey rick Oct 28 04:49:03 another amazing day at sprint adc. Oct 28 04:49:05 how goes the conference? Oct 28 04:49:13 kind of a down day for palm investors, Oct 28 04:49:25 Rick_work: hey Oct 28 04:49:34 read the backlog on the conference Oct 28 04:49:38 but the palm folks are still upbeat, with reservations. Oct 28 04:49:39 thats all good news Oct 28 04:50:02 It's going to be a down something set of somethings here soon for everyone when we get a market correction Oct 28 04:50:09 im surprised they are "behind" our homebrew efforts considering their ELUA Oct 28 04:50:46 Rick_work: palm being threatened by the Hero? Oct 28 04:50:51 Stugots there are lawyers, and then there are people doing things. Oct 28 04:51:00 dBsooner: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Calculator.png Oct 28 04:51:08 thank you! Oct 28 04:51:27 Stugots at Sprint ADC, the HTC people brought 500 Android Hero's provisioned for a month of free service and handed them out to all comers. Oct 28 04:51:42 you tell me which room was full. Oct 28 04:51:44 :-) Oct 28 04:51:49 lol Oct 28 04:51:54 Rick_work: right but to have palm telling you to prmote things like services and plugins is interesting Oct 28 04:51:58 excited for tomorrow? Oct 28 04:52:18 otoh, Palm's sessions on Monday had as many people in them as ANY session, including the Sprint keynote this afternoon. Oct 28 04:52:26 Rick_work: good luck on your talk btw Oct 28 04:52:56 Thanks. I have to admit I'm a little nervous. Oct 28 04:53:42 I'm in the last slot tommorow, but I already know that I will have sprint an palm big wigs in the room. --- and I'm pushing open source and community. Oct 28 04:53:51 Rick_work: i would be too, but you represent a community that it seems like not many people have any idea about Oct 28 04:53:57 But I have to keep reminding myself that THEY ASKED ME TO COME Oct 28 04:53:58 lol Oct 28 04:54:01 Rick_work: even if you do bad you will do good ;) Oct 28 04:54:03 yeah Oct 28 04:54:55 i take it you have power for your laptop now :) Oct 28 04:55:17 and this afternoon, sprints President of wirelss and wireline services keynote basically said "we're opening up our network api to all comers with simple restful interfaces. Y'all come, y'all write interesting aps and let's all make some money. Oct 28 04:56:04 so what, data usage/minutes usage type apps? Oct 28 04:56:22 oil Oct 28 04:56:41 Do you think we could make the title smaller and make it : on the first line? Oct 28 04:56:54 <oil> eh? Oct 28 04:56:55 <Rick_work> contact management, location based services, payment provisioning, network storage, messaging, combinations of the above. Oct 28 04:56:59 <dBsooner> in PreWare patches feed Oct 28 04:57:12 <dBsooner> the list.. 2 lines Oct 28 04:57:18 <oil> i think they decided against that because they're already split by category Oct 28 04:57:25 <dBsooner> Right Oct 28 04:57:34 <dBsooner> But when you "view all" it gets confusing. Oct 28 04:57:42 <oil> and im still not sure if im moving preware to two lines Oct 28 04:57:50 <oil> dBsooner which is why we have icons Oct 28 04:57:54 <dBsooner> or "Installed patches" lumps them all in as one Oct 28 04:58:13 <dBsooner> mmk Oct 28 04:58:17 <dBsooner> twas just an idea. Oct 28 04:58:19 <Rick_work> oil, check developer.sprint.com and the sprint sandbox. Low volume app develpers can use the sandbox with NO cost at up to 500 transactions a day. Oct 28 04:58:33 <Rick_work> over the next 3 months over 300 api's including call management. Oct 28 04:58:52 <oil> so its going to cost to use the api? Oct 28 04:59:03 <Rick_work> not exactly. Oct 28 04:59:12 <Rick_work> that gets complex. It depends. Oct 28 04:59:18 <oil> lol Oct 28 04:59:59 <Rick_work> but the point is, you don't have to be a fancy pants gazillion dollar registered certified developer to use the sprint network api's INCLUDING visual voice mail and call management and call forwarding and and and Oct 28 05:00:04 <Rick_work> you just use them. Oct 28 05:00:19 * oil looks forward to visual voicemail on pre Oct 28 05:00:30 <oil> maybe someone will patch it into the dialer Oct 28 05:00:30 <oil> xD Oct 28 05:01:03 <Rick_work> or you could sign up for googletalk and forward your pre's number to that. :-) Oct 28 05:01:06 <Rick_work> for free Oct 28 05:01:15 <Rick_work> which they announced in cooperation with google today Oct 28 05:01:17 <oil> yeah Oct 28 05:01:28 <oil> im interested to see what people make with it Oct 28 05:01:32 <Stugots> yeah i heard that was possible but i didnt know "how" Oct 28 05:01:38 <Stugots> with out support from the carier Oct 28 05:01:45 <Stugots> but i guess that answers that question Oct 28 05:01:57 <Rick_work> www.google.com/voice/sprint Oct 28 05:02:12 <Rick_work> use gdial pro on the pre. -- done Oct 28 05:03:29 <Stugots> Rick_work: what i meant was i heard this evening that you could use your existing number with gvoice Oct 28 05:03:35 <oil> dBsooner: for rwhitbys wifi patch: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Image:Icon_WebOSInternals_Patches_Wifi.png Oct 28 05:03:37 <Rick_work> ahhhh Oct 28 05:03:39 <Stugots> but untill u said sprint had free forwarding Oct 28 05:03:46 <Stugots> i didnt know how it would be accompished Oct 28 05:03:55 <Rick_work> sprint said free forwarding for everyone as of nov 15 Oct 28 05:03:56 <Stugots> unless your number was not on a carrier Oct 28 05:04:00 <Stugots> :D Oct 28 05:04:07 <Stugots> that will be cool Oct 28 05:04:32 <Stugots> if Palm was wise they would integrate google voice right into the stock dialer Oct 28 05:04:33 <oil> Stugots: you get any time for wircd? Oct 28 05:04:39 <dBsooner> oil thanks! Oct 28 05:04:58 <dBsooner> POLL: Oct 28 05:05:20 <dBsooner> PRE_YYYY-MM-DD-hh-mm-ss.jpg OR IMG_ Oct 28 05:05:35 <Stugots> oil: i was gonna do some work on it today but we had random nice weather so i debadged my car and have it an over due wash Oct 28 05:05:35 <oil> ? Oct 28 05:05:36 <dBsooner> s/hh-mm-ss/hhmmss Oct 28 05:06:00 <dBsooner> Jason made a patch for "improved camera filenames" Oct 28 05:06:13 <oil> Stugots: as long as you haven't forgotten about it xD Oct 28 05:06:19 <Stugots> dBsooner: i saw some nice new patches today Oct 28 05:06:31 <Stugots> dBsooner: close dialer on hangup is long over due Oct 28 05:06:37 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:06:37 <dBsooner> yep Oct 28 05:06:41 <oil> im timid to install that Oct 28 05:06:42 <dBsooner> so anyway Oct 28 05:06:43 <dBsooner> PRE_ Oct 28 05:06:45 <dBsooner> or IMG_ Oct 28 05:06:49 <dBsooner> for image filenames Oct 28 05:06:58 <dBsooner> saved when taking a picture iwth camera Oct 28 05:07:04 <Stugots> dBsooner: make the prefix a user definable option Oct 28 05:07:08 <Stugots> dont hard code it ;) Oct 28 05:07:08 * oil has no preference Oct 28 05:07:18 <dBsooner> Stugots: You can't do that with the current patches system Oct 28 05:07:23 <oil> we need to figure out prompting the user with preware for the scripts Oct 28 05:07:26 <Stugots> dBsooner: and why not Oct 28 05:07:32 <dBsooner> oil just said why not Oct 28 05:07:32 <dBsooner> ;) Oct 28 05:07:40 <Stugots> dBsooner: u can add code to the camera app to add a menu and store the info in a cookie Oct 28 05:07:49 <Stugots> and u can do that with patches Oct 28 05:07:49 <oil> haha! Oct 28 05:07:54 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 05:08:02 * dBsooner is not the patch developer. ;) Oct 28 05:08:10 * dBsooner is just the packager. Oct 28 05:08:13 <oil> the camera doesn't exactly have a menu Oct 28 05:08:15 <oil> being a full-screen app Oct 28 05:08:21 <dBsooner> that too Oct 28 05:08:23 <rwhitby> dBsooner: the correct response is "patch welcomed" Oct 28 05:08:28 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 05:08:31 <dBsooner> "patch welcomed" Oct 28 05:08:32 <Stugots> add a button then w/e Oct 28 05:08:38 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:08:45 <dBsooner> "patch welcomed" Oct 28 05:08:45 <Stugots> dBsooner: u been listening to rwhitby too much Oct 28 05:08:58 <dBsooner> IF you saw how well he works, you would listen too. Oct 28 05:09:00 <Stugots> dBsooner: that is is a rwhitby (tm) remark Oct 28 05:09:14 <dBsooner> rwhitby: do you have a say on the PREFIX? Oct 28 05:09:16 <rwhitby> ~emulate rwhitby Oct 28 05:09:17 <infobot> Well, my work here is done. Oct 28 05:09:21 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:09:25 <dBsooner> I have it as IMG_ right now Oct 28 05:09:38 <oil> how did the patcher submit it? Oct 28 05:09:45 <dBsooner> IMG_ Oct 28 05:09:48 <dBsooner> but Oct 28 05:09:49 <oil> then leave it like that Oct 28 05:09:55 <Stugots> some of these patches are as half assed as the homebrew apps Oct 28 05:09:58 <dBsooner> Jason told me to get the newest patch off his thread Oct 28 05:10:00 <dBsooner> which is PRE_ Oct 28 05:10:25 <Stugots> dBsooner: why not PREIMG Oct 28 05:10:27 * oil thinks Stugots needs to make more patches Oct 28 05:10:28 <Stugots> or PRE_IMG_ Oct 28 05:10:29 <dBsooner> Stugots, they are all MIT Licensed, so feel free to modify them to make them better. :D Oct 28 05:10:30 <rwhitby> use PRE_, then you can blame Jason Oct 28 05:10:34 <Stugots> or JASON_ Oct 28 05:10:46 <dBsooner> How's that rwhitby? Oct 28 05:10:52 <Stugots> how about Oct 28 05:10:55 <Stugots> NOTBYJASON_ Oct 28 05:10:59 <dBsooner> ROFL Oct 28 05:11:02 <rwhitby> and, if you blame Jason, you are implicitly blaming Canada in one fell swoop ... Oct 28 05:11:03 <Stugots> :D Oct 28 05:11:19 <dBsooner> Even the aussies understand canada Oct 28 05:11:28 * rwhitby is playing with GPS settings ... Oct 28 05:11:31 <Stugots> lol canada Oct 28 05:11:32 <dBsooner> so it's occa? Oct 28 05:11:35 * oil waits for Stugots launcher icons patch that includes a new scene for manually changing the icon rows/cols and text size/etc Oct 28 05:11:38 <dBsooner> ~define occa Oct 28 05:11:40 <infobot> Use ~dict for definitions. Oct 28 05:11:44 <dBsooner> ~dict occa Oct 28 05:11:47 <infobot> Dictionary 'occa' Open Cooperative Computing Architecture Oct 28 05:11:49 <rwhitby> ocker Oct 28 05:11:52 <dBsooner> ocker! Oct 28 05:11:54 <dBsooner> thats the word Oct 28 05:12:18 <Stugots> oil: u want me to do that instead of wircd now? Oct 28 05:12:22 <oil> no Oct 28 05:12:24 <oil> not at all Oct 28 05:12:25 <dBsooner> Hehe Oct 28 05:12:32 <Stugots> oil: cause my time the next 2 weeks is limited since i have to give a talk in Toronto now Oct 28 05:12:36 <dBsooner> come on puff get my wircd so I can have wirc Oct 28 05:13:01 <Stugots> i got "volunteered" to give a talk in toronto while in texas Oct 28 05:13:13 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:13:15 <Stugots> and preparing for that sorta trumps wircd Oct 28 05:13:21 <oil> bah Oct 28 05:13:44 <oil> brb Oct 28 05:13:50 <Stugots> i need to make lisp bindings for lunaservice too Oct 28 05:13:59 <Stugots> so that I can learn lisp and do webos shit Oct 28 05:14:08 <Stugots> and not feel guilty about being unproductive Oct 28 05:14:13 <Stugots> cause i need to learn lisp fast Oct 28 05:14:52 <Stugots> well more like, not feed guilty about not doing webos stuff Oct 28 05:14:54 <rwhitby> Stugots: emacs runs on the emulator ... Oct 28 05:15:05 <tlp> oil: Maybe you can learn C and/or Java and write wircd :) Oct 28 05:15:08 <Stugots> i need to learn common lisp not emacs lisp Oct 28 05:15:28 <Stugots> tlp: lol, no Oct 28 05:15:30 <tlp> I keep debating it but anything I come up with is gonna be a serious hack. Oct 28 05:15:33 <Stugots> we are not doing any more java services Oct 28 05:15:38 <tlp> ah Oct 28 05:15:42 <tlp> too resource intensive? Oct 28 05:15:52 <Stugots> yeah, java already wastes so much memory Oct 28 05:16:07 <Stugots> the pre would be so slick if the mail and calendar app were in C Oct 28 05:16:18 <Stugots> well Oct 28 05:16:20 <Stugots> s/app/service/ Oct 28 05:16:23 <tlp> C isn't the most fun thing to write though Oct 28 05:16:27 <Stugots> the gui parts still suck majorly Oct 28 05:16:35 <Stugots> C is lots of fun Oct 28 05:16:47 <Stugots> reinventing the wheel for every program :D Oct 28 05:16:55 <tlp> Handling strings, for example, is such a pain when you're used to all of the convenience of perl/php/etc. Oct 28 05:17:10 <tlp> anyway, not trying to go into a language debate Oct 28 05:17:16 <Stugots> perl/php do not count Oct 28 05:17:26 * Rick_work doesn't think reinventing the wheel is such a big deal. Reinventing the AXLE now that's a pain. Oct 28 05:18:13 <Stugots> tlp: we could write the services in C++ easily Oct 28 05:18:24 <Stugots> but C++ is..... Oct 28 05:18:26 <Stugots> ehhh Oct 28 05:18:30 <Stugots> actually Oct 28 05:18:36 <tlp> I just want to IRC from my Pre ;) Oct 28 05:18:36 <Stugots> this could be a good time to learn D also Oct 28 05:18:54 <tlp> (without slow terminal apps over ssh) Oct 28 05:19:00 <Stugots> tlp: soon enough Oct 28 05:19:14 <tlp> irssi proxy should be neat for that Oct 28 05:19:27 <tlp> although I bet all of the channels I'm in is gonna kill the battery Oct 28 05:19:38 <Stugots> tlp: well.... Oct 28 05:19:43 <oil> i do remember Stugots saying wircd by the end of the month xD Oct 28 05:19:44 <Stugots> tlp: if i went with my first plan Oct 28 05:19:48 <oil> got a few more days :) Oct 28 05:19:48 * Rick_work thinks we should write services in haskell. Oct 28 05:19:50 <tlp> disabling AIM netted serious battery life for me Oct 28 05:20:01 <Stugots> tlp: if we used quassel Oct 28 05:20:07 * rwhitby is still wondering about the PuffTheMagic -> Stugots name change ... Oct 28 05:20:07 <Stugots> then the irc client would be really nice Oct 28 05:20:37 <Stugots> rwhitby: i told you guess/assumption was correct Oct 28 05:20:41 <Stugots> or are you wondering why? Oct 28 05:20:50 <rwhitby> I'm wondering why Oct 28 05:21:07 <Stugots> idk, i change/alternate nicks all the time Oct 28 05:21:10 <tlp> PuffTheMagic had character :p Oct 28 05:21:25 <tlp> I've been using tlp for like the past 8 years I think Oct 28 05:21:43 <Stugots> tlp: if you watched the sopranos you would see the character in Stugots too ;) Oct 28 05:21:52 <kesne> Checkers Pro should be getting an update soon Oct 28 05:22:04 <Stugots> better AI? Oct 28 05:22:15 <rwhitby> Stugots: yeah, the boat Oct 28 05:22:36 <Stugots> rwhitby: not just the boat, what it means Oct 28 05:22:47 <rwhitby> nod Oct 28 05:22:54 * oil hopes the ai doesn't just move his piece back and forth Oct 28 05:23:00 <dBsooner> rwhitby: fire off a build? Oct 28 05:23:01 <Stugots> oil: lol Oct 28 05:23:34 <Stugots> "omg, idk what to do, better go back and forth" Oct 28 05:23:42 <Stugots> been there a few times. gave up Oct 28 05:23:43 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:23:45 <rwhitby> dBsooner: done Oct 28 05:23:45 <oil> forever Oct 28 05:23:50 <oil> won't give that piece up for anything Oct 28 05:23:58 <kesne> oil: it doesnt as much anymore Oct 28 05:24:10 <oil> what about flipping the board? Oct 28 05:24:13 <kesne> I've done a complete overhaul of 90% of the app Oct 28 05:24:16 <kesne> Flipping included Oct 28 05:24:17 <oil> (thats what i see a lot of comments about) Oct 28 05:24:20 <kesne> Online play too Oct 28 05:24:25 <oil> nice Oct 28 05:24:34 <rwhitby> dBsooner: install: cannot stat `build/src-1.2.1-13/other/calulator-enable-vibration.patch': No such file or directory Oct 28 05:24:36 <kesne> I just need to finish Oct 28 05:24:36 <Stugots> kesne: what about the AI though... Oct 28 05:24:44 <dBsooner> blah Oct 28 05:24:46 <Stugots> that is like #1 killer Oct 28 05:24:51 <kesne> Stugots: AI improvements for sure Oct 28 05:24:57 <dBsooner> i forgot to change the category Oct 28 05:24:59 <oil> i still gotta go through and make my apps pixi-friendly Oct 28 05:25:01 <oil> before the 22nd Oct 28 05:25:21 <kesne> Stugots: Working on it the best I can, but it is better for sure. And the online play will help you face good people. Oct 28 05:25:29 <kesne> oil: 22nd? Oct 28 05:25:35 <oil> when the pixi is released Oct 28 05:26:00 * oil is going to play online and just move his piece back and forth forever! Oct 28 05:26:02 <oil> hahaha Oct 28 05:26:18 <Stugots> kesne: adding online play is like... the easy way out of making a good 1 player game Oct 28 05:26:25 <oil> lol Oct 28 05:26:27 <kesne> Lol Oct 28 05:26:39 <kesne> true, but 1 player is currently heavily in the works Oct 28 05:26:45 <kesne> You should notice an improvement Oct 28 05:27:06 <Stugots> kesne: there has to be some documentation and algorithms online for checkers AI Oct 28 05:27:11 <Stugots> well established Oct 28 05:27:23 <Stugots> its easier than chess Oct 28 05:27:29 <Stugots> i would imagine Oct 28 05:27:34 <kesne> Yeah Oct 28 05:27:37 <dBsooner> rwhitby: fixed Oct 28 05:27:40 <kesne> But programming it is the hard part Oct 28 05:27:43 <kesne> and making it fast Oct 28 05:27:53 <kesne> I just ran like 10 speed optimizations on this Oct 28 05:27:58 <kesne> got it running supa fast Oct 28 05:28:11 <Stugots> well when i build a CLisp for the Pre we can all write better AI on the pre :D Oct 28 05:28:20 <rwhitby> dBsooner: running Oct 28 05:29:03 <Stugots> rwhitby: dont forget to check into that opkg issue we talked about Oct 28 05:29:17 <rwhitby> Stugots: which one? Oct 28 05:29:22 <Stugots> ummm Oct 28 05:29:34 <Stugots> rwhitby: i think make sure the the db's are compat Oct 28 05:29:37 <kesne> oil: the pixi arrives on the 15th... Oct 28 05:29:52 <oil> i thought it said the 22nd Oct 28 05:29:56 <Stugots> too bad the pixi has no wifi Oct 28 05:29:59 <Stugots> that is such a killer Oct 28 05:30:39 <Rick_work> Pixie is VERY NICE. Oct 28 05:30:41 <oil> brb Oct 28 05:30:47 <Rick_work> played with one for about a 1.2 hour Oct 28 05:30:51 <kesne> Rick_work: pixi, not pixie Oct 28 05:30:57 <Rick_work> GREAT keyboard. GOOD hardware feel. Oct 28 05:31:03 <Rick_work> thin thin thin Oct 28 05:31:10 <rwhitby> kesne: it's was a pre-release model, so still pixie Oct 28 05:31:12 <kesne> Rick_work, pro's/cons? Keyboard better than pre? Fast? Oct 28 05:31:16 <Rick_work> responsive, etc. Oct 28 05:31:31 <Rick_work> keyboard better. Ever so slightly slower Oct 28 05:31:39 <dBsooner> oil, update the feeds, new icons should be there Oct 28 05:32:01 <kesne> Rick_work lack of a real center button better or worse? Oct 28 05:33:20 <dBsooner> Rick_work: they give you one? Oct 28 05:34:34 <Rick_work> better Oct 28 05:34:35 <Rick_work> no. Oct 28 05:36:16 <kesne> Rick_work: does it look nice? Oct 28 05:48:19 <destinal> rwhitby: re the last resort thing, I don't think the harsh warning is required, usb booting a pre's not going to brick it, not going to do anything bad really Oct 28 05:50:32 <destinal> like, I think the warning is totally incorrect. you can't "easily cause a perfectly good Pre that can be recovered simply using the webOS Doctor to become a Pre that requires that far more complex and unsupported by Palm procedure to get it back to life." Oct 28 05:50:35 <destinal> it's not easy to cause an issue with the method, maybe not even _possible_ to unless you boot some kind of malicious ARM code somehow which the potential user is not going to have access to Oct 28 05:52:10 <destinal> it just loads over USB into RAM and starts running it, it's not like you're overwriting bootie Oct 28 05:53:10 <rwhitby> destinal: oh, it doesn't overwrite bootie> Oct 28 05:53:23 <rwhitby> destinal: ok, agreed then. Oct 28 05:54:01 <destinal> rwhitby: right, the way it would recover bootie would be the rest of what the doctor does when you load it Oct 28 05:54:11 <destinal> normal doctor stuff Oct 28 05:54:45 <destinal> and I don't know if it really works to do that, but I hope it would. :) Oct 28 05:54:53 <destinal> rwhitby: get your dead pre to play with yet? Oct 28 05:55:00 <rwhitby> destinal: fair enough. can we reword it so that aunt minnie doesn't try that method if she has just hit the volume up button at the wrong time? Oct 28 05:55:03 <rwhitby> destinal: not yet Oct 28 05:55:24 <Rick-work> back Oct 28 05:57:06 <oil> so i take it dude never submitted his terminal padding stuff? Oct 28 05:58:08 <prestonjames> can someone tell me how to package the .patch i made as .ipk for preware? Oct 28 05:58:25 <oil> prestonjames, your best bet is submitting it to dbsooners page Oct 28 05:58:28 <destinal> oil: looks like not. I have to run to bed, but if you want to go ahead and push a new terminal release with your enhancements, that's cool Oct 28 05:59:50 <oil> maybe i'll do that Oct 28 06:00:11 <oil> has anyone tested it? Oct 28 06:00:30 <prestonjames> +oil, i need to also add an image change along with the .patch, but i don't know how to do it Oct 28 06:00:40 <destinal> oil: I'd hang around and do it myself but I have work tomorrow. I tested it but only briefly Oct 28 06:00:55 <oil> ok Oct 28 06:00:59 <oil> well, probably good enough :) Oct 28 06:01:07 <oil> prestonjames: i have no clue Oct 28 06:01:21 <rwhitby> prestonjames: chat to dBsooner Oct 28 06:01:34 * rwhitby bbl Oct 28 06:01:40 <prestonjames> thanks guys Oct 28 06:02:25 <a2ny> good evening :D Oct 28 06:06:41 <destinal> a2ny: hey. Oct 28 06:06:59 <oil> hey its teh padding guy Oct 28 06:07:42 <egaudet> prestonjames, for other patches using autopatch technology that need images, we use postinst_extra script to "install" the images and prerm_extra script to remove Oct 28 06:08:43 <destinal> oil: hey, if you guys can get that in too, even better. again, if you have time and feel like it Oct 28 06:08:53 <destinal> sorry to run out on you Oct 28 06:08:57 <oil> its ok Oct 28 06:09:09 <oil> i tagged whats there as 0.2.3 Oct 28 06:09:19 <destinal> cool Oct 28 06:09:37 <a2ny> I am working on it right now Oct 28 06:09:44 <a2ny> I just git pulled your stuff :D Oct 28 06:09:50 <prestonjames> +egaudet, is there somewhere i can go to learn more about use those scripts? i'm learning as i go here. Oct 28 06:10:12 <Rick-work> http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/10/how_important_i.html;jsessionid=RJOXL5MP0H0NBQE1GHPSKH4ATMY32JVN Oct 28 06:10:34 <egaudet> they are simple bash shell scripts prestonjames. Are you familiar with linux and shell scripts at all? Oct 28 06:11:05 <prestonjames> nope. i'm a total noob. in way over my head Oct 28 06:11:27 <egaudet> we would use them simply to backup/overwrite or copy new images into place on the pre. (And recover/remove on uninstall) Oct 28 06:12:28 <egaudet> We can write up the scripts for you if you supply us the images and where you would like them Oct 28 06:12:50 <prestonjames> ok. should i just pm you over at precentral? Oct 28 06:13:52 <egaudet> You can use dB's submission script to submit the patch (use admin notes to let us know you will be sending images too) and then email me the images with locations if you would like Oct 28 06:14:32 <prestonjames> ok, thanks for your help. Oct 28 06:14:41 <egaudet> I can probably get it all set up and pacakged into the feed tomorrow evening Oct 28 06:23:25 <Rick-work> crash -- sleep Oct 28 06:23:28 <Rick-work> gnight all Oct 28 06:23:39 <oil> good luck tomorrow rick Oct 28 06:23:46 <oil> aw Oct 28 06:34:04 <prestonjames> +egaudet, i sent you the image i need with that patch. thanks again for your help. Oct 28 06:40:52 <oc80z> whats good Oct 28 06:44:36 <egaudet> good night Oct 28 07:14:56 <dBsooner> egaudet if you're still up.. Oct 28 07:15:20 <dBsooner> Look into the camera-improved-filename-format patch Oct 28 07:15:36 <dBsooner> if you can.. cuz it's broke and I can't keep my eyes open Oct 28 07:15:44 <dBsooner> otherwise I'll work on in the am. Oct 28 07:15:45 <dBsooner> night all Oct 28 07:24:47 <jody> can anyone offer help with my palm pre? Oct 28 07:48:39 <geist> guess not Oct 28 07:53:13 <rwhitby> geist: I was going to say "there's an app for help on the Palm Pre" .... Oct 28 07:54:16 <LachAU> rwhitby...fellow aussie I believe Oct 28 07:54:20 <LachAU> adeladian even Oct 28 07:54:26 <LachAU> if my readings have been correct Oct 28 07:54:31 <rwhitby> LachAU: yep, g'day. Oct 28 07:54:46 <LachAU> you got your pre yet Oct 28 07:54:46 <LachAU> or still waiting Oct 28 07:54:46 <rwhitby> maybe you're on the same bus as me right now ... Oct 28 07:54:51 <LachAU> heh Oct 28 07:54:55 <LachAU> just got off one ;) Oct 28 07:55:01 <rwhitby> LachAU: 6 to 10 days-ish Oct 28 07:55:03 <LachAU> that was me, getting out the door Oct 28 07:55:06 <LachAU> ah ok Oct 28 07:55:29 <LachAU> im very eager to see how you go... optus? Oct 28 08:31:18 <Robi_> sweet, installing win7 on my netbook from my palm pre! Oct 28 08:46:54 <rwhitby> LachAU: vodafone here, but freakout-away is trying all three Oct 28 08:49:42 <gregroll> rwhitby: evening. did freakout get his phone? Oct 28 08:51:35 <rwhitby> gregroll: not yet Oct 28 08:52:03 <oil> lol Oct 28 08:52:36 <gregroll> damn customs Oct 28 08:52:41 <gregroll> damn expansys too :( Oct 28 08:56:43 <Robi_> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2002802#post2002802 Oct 28 08:57:42 <Robi_> sweet, installing win7 on my netbook from my palm pre! Oct 28 09:00:57 <rwhitby> another step towards skynet ... Oct 28 09:01:55 <Robi_> nah, they seem to be preventing skynet with sheer paranoia and stupidity Oct 28 09:02:10 <Robi_> that's why the per can't be a phone and in usb mode at the same time Oct 28 09:02:17 <Robi_> s/per/pre Oct 28 09:04:17 <rwhitby> Robi_: I for one am glad that Palm has stopped the onslaught of skynet with that single safety interlock. Oct 28 09:04:50 <greg_roll> Robi_: Windows 7 from your Pre lol awesome :) Oct 28 09:05:08 * rwhitby doctor's his Pre yet again ... Oct 28 09:10:02 <greg_roll> rwhitby: what did you do??? more testing? Oct 28 09:10:14 <rwhitby> greg_roll: gps testing Oct 28 09:10:40 <greg_roll> rwhitby: interesting... trying to fix the GPS 360 issue? Oct 28 09:12:43 <rwhitby> looking at standalone settings Oct 28 09:13:30 <rwhitby> didn't seem to work. then I remembered that I had bell firmware loaded, so flashing back to sprint, just in case that has any affect Oct 28 09:14:11 <greg_roll> very cool! it's cool you have a play/dev device Oct 28 09:20:10 <corecode> what's that skynet reference? Oct 28 09:26:21 <freakout> No pre yet greg_roll. I hope by friday Oct 28 09:26:48 <greg_roll> freakout: bummer, at least its only 3 days Oct 28 09:28:39 <freakout> yep Oct 28 09:29:04 <freakout> rwhitby: that's concerning. Hope the German GPS is better... Oct 28 09:33:28 <greg_roll> freakout: have you been following people success with 3G on the german pre? Oct 28 09:56:50 <freakout> greg_roll: been keeping an eye on the precentral forums but haven't had much time lately Oct 28 09:57:08 <freakout> greg_roll: no one's tried Oz yet so far as I know. which is good, 'cause I can get a news story out of it Oct 28 09:57:38 <greg_roll> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/209222-few-questions-about-german-palm-pre-5.html looks really good Oct 28 09:57:48 <greg_roll> it talks about entries that are in the db3 file but don't work Oct 28 09:58:00 <greg_roll> but people have figured out how to enable them, i think :) Oct 28 10:05:12 <freakout> yeah i saw that - dakis managed to make swisscom work Oct 28 10:05:20 <freakout> so there's hope for us all yet Oct 28 10:11:00 <corecode> what is this works/doesn't work with some SIM cards? Oct 28 10:13:54 <greg_roll> some data services may not work due to the fact the carriersettingsdatabase.db3 has login values of hs_null Oct 28 10:14:02 <greg_roll> they need to be changed to blank Oct 28 10:14:16 <greg_roll> plus there is 2 collumns that may need to be set to 1 (enabled) to work Oct 28 10:14:22 <greg_roll> pretty straigh forward Oct 28 10:26:32 <oc80z-> whats good Oct 28 10:28:36 <oc80z-> webos is developing. Oct 28 10:35:05 <oc80z-> whats the avg, 3 apps per day? Oct 28 10:35:19 <oc80z-> since 7/6/09 no? Oct 28 10:39:49 <greg_roll> freakout: you still around? Oct 28 10:47:26 <greg_roll> rwhitby: Just looked through the carrier database and I think your fine for Vodafone AU and data etc Oct 28 10:47:53 <rwhitby> greg_roll: yep, I'm expecting it all to be fine Oct 28 10:48:09 <greg_roll> everything looks enabled and correct Oct 28 10:48:14 <greg_roll> freakout on the other hand... Oct 28 10:49:49 <greg_roll> rwhitby: yet by default for me 3 is set for data access but 3 intranet no lol Oct 28 10:54:40 <oc80z-> ma -f bm would be noice. Oct 28 10:56:14 <rwhitby> EVENT_GPS_SEED_GET Option = 0, Latitude = 43, Longitude = -78, Position Sigma = 0, GPS Week = 1305, GPS ms = 298400857 Oct 28 10:56:28 <greg_roll> rwhitby: there are 3 settings in the carrier database (msAssistedAllowed, msBasedAllowed and agpsServerAddress) which do stuff around GPS. For vodafone they are set to 1,1,blank. Oct 28 10:56:39 <greg_roll> It appears GPS settings are turned on based on carrier Oct 28 10:56:55 <greg_roll> maybe because you have no carrier on your CDMA could explain why the GPS is weird Oct 28 10:59:43 <rwhitby> greg_roll: it's using stand-alone mode Oct 28 10:59:59 <rwhitby> I think the trouble is that seed is not allowing an ephemeris download from the satellites Oct 28 11:00:17 <greg_roll> rwhitby: oh ok. So that rules that out Oct 28 11:00:30 <greg_roll> wow you know alot about GPS, all that is french to me lol Oct 28 11:00:53 <rwhitby> I've read a bit in the last couple of hours ... Oct 28 11:01:11 <greg_roll> and whats seed? Oct 28 11:05:44 <rwhitby> initial position Oct 28 11:08:05 <rwhitby> for some reason it thinks I'm near Niagara Falls ... Oct 28 11:08:17 <greg_roll> oh i see thanks :) Oct 28 11:14:35 <corecode> now i just need to find a good data plan that won't drive me into poverty Oct 28 11:15:20 <corecode> so let's say i forgot the key to my own WEP protected wifi network and I only had a pre Oct 28 11:15:39 <corecode> is there a way to find the key and use the wifi net? Oct 28 11:33:05 <freakout> rwhitby: i suppose the real test will be once there's another Pre in Oz to test with. But this does not bode well Oct 28 11:36:00 <greg_roll> rwhitby: does the info you posted above ever change? and what did you run to get that info? Oct 28 11:43:39 <freakout> greg_roll: if you want some good background reading on GPS and A-GPS, check out Ars technica's article: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/01/assisted-gps.ars Oct 28 11:44:02 <greg_roll> freakout: thanks! Oct 28 11:44:05 <greg_roll> im off to bed now Oct 28 11:44:10 <greg_roll> have a good night all speak soon Oct 28 11:44:57 <freakout> g'night Oct 28 13:40:12 * rwhitby bbt Oct 28 13:47:42 <dBsooner> wee.. new terminal? xD Oct 28 14:26:57 <corecode> no sip integration for webos :/ Oct 28 14:30:53 <bmyers_here> nope Oct 28 14:31:12 <bmyers_here> no mic api anyway Oct 28 14:31:34 <corecode> seriously? Oct 28 14:31:45 <corecode> that's a killer Oct 28 14:43:21 <Stugots> did google really scrap android to get into netbooks and other devices.... like the chrome os shit? Oct 28 14:56:13 <corecode> bmyers_here: so no skype or anything else? Oct 28 15:07:03 <en0x> corecode: nope Oct 28 15:11:57 <dBsooner> egaudet: ping Oct 28 15:16:25 <nt4cats> Good morning Oct 28 15:18:02 <A2NY1> good morning Oct 28 15:23:22 <nt4cats> I just uninstalled my user-agent patch (made sites thing my Pre was an iPhone) Oct 28 15:24:25 <nt4cats> I didn't notice a difference in the sites I use, and I don't want the sites to count my device as an iPhone in any stats they collect -- I want them to see (and count me as) Pre traffic Oct 28 15:33:00 <egaudet_work> morning Oct 28 15:34:30 <nt4cats> 'lo egaudet Oct 28 15:38:20 <dBsooner> lo there Oct 28 15:38:34 <dBsooner> So I had to fix Jason's patch Oct 28 15:38:51 <dBsooner> adding function to the header controls fixes it.. just line numbers don't work Oct 28 15:40:56 <corecode> any insight on what would be needed to have nice sip integration? Oct 28 15:49:18 <dBsooner> egaudet: we need to find a way to make battery icon as percent and Showe Actual Percent compatible. Oct 28 15:50:41 <dBsooner> I wonder if I could just MERGE Show actual percent into the "Battery as Percent" and "Battery AND percent" patches? Oct 28 15:50:59 <dBsooner> then leave a show actual percent patch by itself. Oct 28 15:52:41 <Stugots> corecode: yeah run a sip daemon in the background and then write a gui to interface with it Oct 28 15:53:02 <A2NY1> dBsooner: you would have to make a separate patch for actual Oct 28 15:53:04 <dBsooner> Puff, what do you think of my idea.. --^^ Oct 28 15:53:15 <nt4cats> corecode: and make sure you're good at hiding because Sprint may just send their Ninjas to your house Oct 28 15:53:15 <Stugots> what i dea? Oct 28 15:53:15 <dBsooner> A2NY1: That's the problem. I can't. Oct 28 15:53:16 <corecode> Stugots: what about microphone, integration with the dial/address book app? Oct 28 15:53:20 <A2NY1> lol Oct 28 15:53:24 <Stugots> corecode: what about it? Oct 28 15:53:44 <corecode> is that easy or hard or already existing? Oct 28 15:53:48 <Stugots> corecode: u have access to linux... you can do what ever you can think of Oct 28 15:53:53 <dBsooner> A2NY1: Right now there are 3 separate patches. "Show Actual Percet", "Battery AS Percent" and "Battery AND Percent" Oct 28 15:54:07 <Stugots> dBsooner: i think all those patches that modify the header area need to die Oct 28 15:54:11 <Stugots> and a new patch be made Oct 28 15:54:16 <Stugots> one that alternates information Oct 28 15:54:23 <a2ny> so what are you looking to do ? Oct 28 15:54:49 <dBsooner> A2NY: If you install "Show Actual Percent", you can't install "Battery AS Percent" Oct 28 15:54:59 <dBsooner> and vice versa. Oct 28 15:55:08 <a2ny> yup, the patch halts Oct 28 15:55:11 <Stugots> ^^ the joys of patches Oct 28 15:55:21 <dBsooner> because Battery AS percent adds an extra if/fi clause Oct 28 15:55:46 <dBsooner> add the same line "SHow Actual Percent" keys off of Oct 28 15:55:54 <a2ny> so create 2 new patches Oct 28 15:55:59 <oil> aunt minnie wants both! Oct 28 15:56:00 <Stugots> no Oct 28 15:56:02 <Stugots> create 1 patch Oct 28 15:56:03 <dBsooner> No Oct 28 15:56:05 <Stugots> with both merged Oct 28 15:56:07 <dBsooner> Yes Oct 28 15:56:10 <dBsooner> that was my idea Oct 28 15:56:18 <dBsooner> Well, let me rephrase it Oct 28 15:56:29 <Stugots> yet another multimod patch Oct 28 15:56:36 <dBsooner> I want to UPDATE the "Battery AS Percent" to have "Show Actual Percent" in it Oct 28 15:56:45 <Stugots> why Oct 28 15:56:48 <dBsooner> then leave Show Actual Percent by itself as well Oct 28 15:56:56 <Stugots> leave them both by them selves Oct 28 15:57:01 <Stugots> and make a 3rd new patch Oct 28 15:57:21 <dBsooner> but I "THINK" Battery AND percent fails too Oct 28 15:57:27 <dBsooner> so it would need 2 new Oct 28 15:57:34 <Stugots> well w/e Oct 28 15:57:38 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 15:57:40 <Stugots> i hate patches Oct 28 15:57:46 <dBsooner> I am no longer working for AM Oct 28 15:57:52 <Stugots> AM? Oct 28 15:57:59 <Stugots> oh Oct 28 15:58:01 <dBsooner> Aunt Minnie Oct 28 15:58:01 <Stugots> i get it :D Oct 28 15:58:07 <oil> lol Oct 28 15:59:50 <dBsooner> yep Oct 28 15:59:50 <dBsooner> it fails too Oct 28 15:59:50 <dBsooner> So two new it is Oct 28 16:00:22 <dBsooner> So you all think there should be "Battery As Percent w/o Actual" and "Battery AND Percent w/o Actual" Oct 28 16:00:44 <dBsooner> then "Battery As Percent w/ Actual" and "Battery AND Percent w/ Actual"? Oct 28 16:05:47 <a2ny> yup Oct 28 16:06:19 <dBsooner> let me interpret that? Oct 28 16:06:36 * dBsooner got screwed by having to combine them. ;) Oct 28 16:07:53 <theonetruedevo> hi all Oct 28 16:08:08 <theonetruedevo> does anyone know if there is anyone working on a way to play flac in the music player? Oct 28 16:08:32 <en0x> theonetruedevo: you will need a flac codec Oct 28 16:08:49 <a2ny> dBsooner: that is better than me trying to use JS to control css styles right now =\ Oct 28 16:09:13 <theonetruedevo> en0x: its possible to add codecs to the music player? Oct 28 16:09:34 <en0x> u will need to add a codec to gstreamer Oct 28 16:09:51 <theonetruedevo> en0x: guess i will have to look into gstreamer :) Oct 28 16:10:09 <en0x> music player uses gstreamer to play music Oct 28 16:10:12 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, actually they can be made compatible Oct 28 16:12:03 <egaudet_work> and what was wrong with Jason's patch? Oct 28 16:12:36 <theonetruedevo> en0x: cool, i will take a look at gstreamer, thanks Oct 28 16:13:06 <a2ny> anything in mojo.log.info stores in var/logs/messages ? Oct 28 16:13:06 <en0x> kk Oct 28 16:14:29 <theonetruedevo> en0x: the webos-internals page about gstreamer has done a pretty good job dissuading me Oct 28 16:15:18 <en0x> you will just have to compile gstreamer-bad plugins Oct 28 16:15:26 <en0x> and then start working Oct 28 16:15:27 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, Jason's patch failed due to dos-mode <CR> bytes not the headers Oct 28 16:15:30 <en0x> on it if it will play Oct 28 16:15:34 <en0x> anyway KUDOS to it Oct 28 16:17:46 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, for future reference to fix those dos mode <CR> bytes, open the patch in vi and type ':se ff=unix' without the quotes and save Oct 28 16:19:14 <Stugots> people need to stop doing linux dev work in windows Oct 28 16:22:15 <nt4cats> egaudet / dbsooner: if you're on a Linux box (not your pre) -- you probably have a tool called 'dos2unix' installed ... just 'dos2unix somefile' and It'll ensure your file is formatted for unix Oct 28 16:23:42 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: oh and oh Oct 28 16:23:50 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: no you want Oct 28 16:23:59 <dBsooner> s/want/cant/ Oct 28 16:24:40 <Stugots> nt4cats: its not on my box :D Oct 28 16:25:19 <dBsooner> Because both the Battery AS/AND Percent reference 'payload.percent_ui' which is CHANGED by Actual Percent to be 'payload.percent' Oct 28 16:26:32 <dBsooner> example: $('power').innerHTML = this.getBatteryLevelPercent(payload.percent_ui, batteryLevelColor, true, 0); Oct 28 16:26:39 <nt4cats> stugots: if you're running Ubuntu, 'sudo apt-get install tofrodos'. If you're running Fedora, "yum install dos2unix'. If you're not running either of those you're a weenie. Oct 28 16:26:55 <dBsooner> that's a line ADDED by Battery AS Percent Oct 28 16:27:07 <Stugots> yes im not running those nor do I "want" dos2unux Oct 28 16:27:16 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, you can change what payload.percent_ui is very early Oct 28 16:27:17 <Stugots> i dont use windows, so i will never had a dos formatted file Oct 28 16:27:29 <egaudet_work> so you CAN change the patch to make the functionality compatible Oct 28 16:27:37 <dBsooner> I guess you culd Oct 28 16:27:46 <nt4cats> Stugots: but there are plenty of windoze drones out there who may send you a DOS-formatted file Oct 28 16:27:51 <egaudet_work> and yea dos2unix is good, thanks nt4cats Oct 28 16:27:53 <Stugots> egaudet_work: dBsooner is avoiding any coding Oct 28 16:27:54 <dBsooner> So what's your idea? Oct 28 16:28:03 <dBsooner> Yea, I don't want to code Oct 28 16:28:03 <Stugots> nt4cats: i wont use it Oct 28 16:28:06 <dBsooner> as I dont' want to maintain Oct 28 16:28:13 <egaudet_work> I code and I don't maintain Oct 28 16:28:17 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:28:24 <nt4cats> Stugots: well, you've got balls, I must say. Oct 28 16:28:25 <egaudet_work> I'll change patches and never put my name near it Oct 28 16:28:42 <dBsooner> so how would I make it compat? Oct 28 16:28:44 <egaudet_work> I'll hand my changes to the maintainer Oct 28 16:29:06 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, where is payload first defined? Is it a parameter to the function? Oct 28 16:29:12 <dBsooner> let me look Oct 28 16:29:32 <dBsooner> its a paramater to the function: Oct 28 16:29:38 <dBsooner> handlePowerNotifications: function(payload) { Oct 28 16:29:57 <Stugots> nt4cats: line endings only matter for patches anyway... which i am not involved with, so really there is no reason why I would ever recieve a dos file like that Oct 28 16:30:10 <dBsooner> payload.percent_ui = payload.percent; ? Oct 28 16:30:18 <dBsooner> var payload.percent_ui = payload.percent; ? Oct 28 16:30:19 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, first line of the function do payload.percent_ui = payload.percent Oct 28 16:30:31 <Stugots> eww Oct 28 16:30:34 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:30:47 <egaudet_work> and do not listen to Puff Oct 28 16:31:18 <dBsooner> Puff leads us astray a lot Oct 28 16:31:21 <egaudet_work> I know it's ugly and it could be better, but I don't want to get into making every single one of the 90+ patches correct or optimal Oct 28 16:31:37 * dBsooner agrees with egaudet_work! Oct 28 16:31:38 <egaudet_work> Puff will invariably bring up a good point though Oct 28 16:31:48 <dBsooner> Oh yeah.. Oct 28 16:31:52 <dBsooner> I got a response for that! Oct 28 16:32:00 * nt4cats thinks we should all get pitchforks and torches and storm Puff's castle Oct 28 16:32:04 <dBsooner> "patch welcomed" Oct 28 16:32:18 * dBsooner high fives a sleeping rwhitby! Oct 28 16:33:20 <egaudet_work> Stugots, what's the latest on your C projects? Oct 28 16:34:39 <Stugots> egaudet_work: well the C ipkg service need to use opkg instead of ipkg so we can get signed packages working, and i still have to add confirmation support, and everything needs to be API compat with existing service before we can make any improvements Oct 28 16:34:53 <Stugots> egaudet_work: and uberservice is stalled Oct 28 16:35:01 <Stugots> wircd is less stalled Oct 28 16:35:29 <egaudet_work> you still at conference? Oct 28 16:35:38 <Stugots> no i got back friday night Oct 28 16:35:47 <Stugots> egaudet_work: but i have to present something another another conference on the 7th Oct 28 16:35:53 <dBsooner> you don't add this. to payload.percent_ui = payload.percent do you? Oct 28 16:36:15 <Stugots> egaudet_work: so the free time i though i had to whip out a wircd beta went away Oct 28 16:37:39 <egaudet_work> no dBsooner Oct 28 16:38:14 <dBsooner> because it was accepted in from a call Oct 28 16:38:28 <egaudet_work> busy busy these days Puff. I've been a complete slacker of late Oct 28 16:38:31 <dBsooner> this. is only for stuff defined inside the function, correct? Oct 28 16:39:11 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, this is for the current context. Rick could explain better, I can't put it into words Oct 28 16:39:21 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:39:34 <dBsooner> OOP. That's all you have to say. Oct 28 16:39:54 <egaudet_work> if you had var blah, you wouldn't do this.blah either Oct 28 16:40:10 <Stugots> egaudet_work: plus i really want to get freeTether out the door :D Oct 28 16:40:29 <egaudet_work> freeTether :) Oct 28 16:42:13 <a2ny> whosTether ? Oct 28 16:46:39 <dBsooner> a2ny Oct 28 16:46:44 <dBsooner> I didn't realize this was your patch Oct 28 16:46:44 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 16:47:02 <dBsooner> you ok with that change to show actual percent? Oct 28 16:51:17 <Stugots> dBsooner: why are you messing with peoples patches, just make a new patch Oct 28 16:51:25 <Stugots> just like there are 55 versions of the 4x4 patch Oct 28 16:51:47 <dBsooner> Shut up. Oct 28 16:51:57 <dBsooner> xD Oct 28 16:52:41 <Stugots> maybe people like the existing behavior of it Oct 28 16:52:45 <Stugots> why get rid of it Oct 28 16:52:52 <dBsooner> It will function the same Oct 28 16:54:57 <oil> lol Oct 28 16:56:07 <dBsooner> oil, why laught? Oct 28 16:56:28 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: do you agree? Because I have pushed the changes and it will build in 4 mins. Oct 28 16:56:29 <a2ny> ;) Oct 28 16:56:53 <oil> i was laughing at "Stugots: just like there are 55 versions of the 4x4 patch" Oct 28 16:57:02 <dBsooner> yeah, I know. Oct 28 16:57:05 <Stugots> :D Oct 28 16:57:12 <dBsooner> But those actually change functionality Oct 28 16:57:28 <dBsooner> What I changed is strictly behind the scenes stuff. Oct 28 16:57:35 <oil> i've got the v3 icon patch Oct 28 16:57:40 <oil> imho, its the best Oct 28 16:58:37 <dBsooner> yep, me too Oct 28 16:58:47 <dBsooner> oil: did you put the "no titles" with it? Oct 28 16:58:49 <dBsooner> I like that. Oct 28 16:58:51 <oil> no Oct 28 16:58:53 <oil> i like titles Oct 28 17:00:38 <a2ny> oil: blah, so I need someone that knows js to css to fix the padding Oct 28 17:00:52 <oil> aye? Oct 28 17:00:55 <a2ny> else you get pretty 'static' borders around the terminal app :D Oct 28 17:01:35 <a2ny> I don't know how to reference the preferenced bg color back to css Oct 28 17:01:47 <a2ny> so the scene can pick it up Oct 28 17:08:41 <oil> oh Oct 28 17:08:53 <oil> palm giving out raw feeds for catalog apps Oct 28 17:10:31 <AnOutsider> ipk feeds? or just rss with info Oct 28 17:10:39 <oil> they don't say Oct 28 17:10:55 <oil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGoPQvax10U Oct 28 17:11:13 <oil> the guy clapping when they say it is probably rick Oct 28 17:11:13 <oil> xD Oct 28 17:11:29 <a2ny> lol Oct 28 17:11:33 <a2ny> the only guy that claps Oct 28 17:11:47 <oil> lol Oct 28 17:14:12 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, do I agree with what Oct 28 17:15:10 <oil> everything Oct 28 17:16:04 <Robi_> rwhitby: i had similar issues with my GPS while I was in Hawaii recently Oct 28 17:16:31 <Robi_> the old G1 geotagged pics nicely, but the pre had a terrible time finding coordinates Oct 28 17:17:14 <en0x> y is that? Oct 28 17:18:04 <AZero> probably because it disabled GPS whenever not in use and it takes a bit to realign satellites, but people want to open the camera and take it and close it Oct 28 17:18:36 <en0x> right Oct 28 17:20:08 <en0x> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNh39h02zYI&feature=related lol Oct 28 17:20:09 <Robi_> i thought of that too on the lava fields and kept the pre 'on' Oct 28 17:20:59 <Robi_> i also used the waypoint apps to continually try to get position fixed.. it took ~5-7 min to get any data and then it wasn't converging to kinds useless Oct 28 17:21:40 <Robi_> so its more the default requiring active data connectino bit Oct 28 17:32:11 <Robi_> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre-tips-information-resources/206982-palm-pre-gps-additional-gps-modes-autonomous-assisted-cached.html Oct 28 17:37:08 <a2ny> anyone know how to javascript css ? Oct 28 17:38:29 * oil doesn't know what you mean Oct 28 17:40:01 <a2ny> javascript to format divs in html scene Oct 28 17:40:33 <oil> like element.style.background = '#000'; Oct 28 17:41:54 <oil> ? Oct 28 17:59:16 <a2ny> yes Oct 28 18:02:53 <a2ny> right now I am fully padded, works great, until you change the color from anything except black, then you have black borders Oct 28 18:11:12 <A2NY> silly crashing windows =\ Oct 28 18:15:57 <egaudet_work> sorry Oct 28 18:18:05 <A2NY> awk '{print $6,$7,$8,$9,$10,$11,$12,$13,$14}' Oct 28 18:18:14 <A2NY> is there a bettery way to handle that =\ Oct 28 18:19:44 <en0x> for sure there is Oct 28 18:20:04 <FreeTim3> yep for (i=4; i<NF; i++) print Oct 28 18:20:48 <FreeTim3> or you know, for (i=6, i<15; i++) print $i Oct 28 18:27:09 <egaudet_work> A2NY, cut -d' ' -f6-14 Oct 28 18:27:25 <egaudet_work> where -d is your delmiter (I assumed space) Oct 28 18:28:21 <A2NY> this is all I am doing.. Oct 28 18:28:28 <A2NY> cat /var/log/messages | grep BATTERY Oct 28 18:30:32 <egaudet_work> ? Oct 28 18:31:27 <A2NY> thanks egaudet Oct 28 19:04:51 <navinag> does anyany one why du -h and df -h in /var yields different results Oct 28 19:15:40 <egaudet_work> lsof | grep /var Oct 28 19:30:09 <Stugots> what is the link to the 1.2.1 webos dr image Oct 28 19:30:44 <oil> its on the wiki Oct 28 19:31:58 <Stugots> yeah i cant find it Oct 28 19:32:01 <Stugots> i hate the wiki Oct 28 19:32:13 <Stugots> there is no heirarchy Oct 28 19:32:27 <Stugots> and lots of orphan pages Oct 28 19:32:33 <oil> lol Oct 28 19:32:54 <FreeTim3> Thank you for volunteering to fix our wiki Oct 28 19:33:06 <oil> i usually search for "doctor" Oct 28 19:33:09 <oil> and find this page Oct 28 19:33:10 <oil> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Webos_Doctor_Versions Oct 28 19:33:11 <a2ny> hi Oct 28 19:33:25 <Stugots> oil: see i search for webos doctor Oct 28 19:33:30 <Stugots> and just get the md5sum pages Oct 28 19:33:40 <oil> its linked at the top of the md5sum page Oct 28 19:34:01 <Stugots> oil: there are LOTS of md5sum pages Oct 28 19:34:03 <a2ny> testing from irssi Oct 28 19:34:07 <oil> lol Oct 28 19:34:16 <Stugots> oil: and this page does not say what version this is Oct 28 19:34:29 <oil> i thought hte link was always to the newest Oct 28 19:34:44 <Stugots> no i dont beleive that to be true Oct 28 19:35:03 <oil> well, if thats not it, idk what it is Oct 28 19:35:54 <Stugots> FreeTim3: there is no way i could fix the wiki with out breaking it, i would need to start from scratch Oct 28 19:36:11 <Stugots> and its just easier to ask in here than search on the wiki Oct 28 19:36:50 <egaudet_work> I'm fairly certain the link on that page is to 1.2.1 Oct 28 19:39:30 <destinal> oil: it USED to always be the latest version back when there was only one URL for webos doctor Oct 28 19:39:57 <oil> well i thought people were updating it when the new one was found Oct 28 19:40:18 <destinal> oil: now they've added a random 8 character directory name to the path to uniquely identify a given version and prevent us from guessing the filename Oct 28 19:40:19 <Stugots> i tought there was more than one url Oct 28 19:40:24 <Stugots> and i though old version still existed Oct 28 19:40:30 <destinal> and prevent "accidental" releases like the 1.2.0 Oct 28 19:40:47 <destinal> Stugots: that is how it is NOW but didn't used to be before 1.2.0 came out Oct 28 19:41:07 <Stugots> destinal: which still makes my question valid Oct 28 19:41:09 <destinal> Stugots: before 1.2.0, they just overwrote the file on the CDM Oct 28 19:41:13 <destinal> s/CDM/CDN/ Oct 28 19:41:14 <infobot> destinal meant: Stugots: before 1.2.0, they just overwrote the file on the CDN Oct 28 19:41:41 <gkatsev> get the webosdr via wqi? Oct 28 19:41:51 <destinal> so yeah, someone needs to use their serial # to get the JNLP and look in the JNLP to get the JAR url Oct 28 19:42:28 <destinal> if it hasn't been posted yet Oct 28 19:43:39 <en0x> http://insidesprintnow.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/google-voice-sprint-110809/ Oct 28 19:43:42 <en0x> oh nice Oct 28 19:43:52 <gkatsev> that looks like the 1.2.1 webosdr Oct 28 19:43:57 <oil> when was 1.2.1 released? Oct 28 19:44:07 <gkatsev> a week after 1.2.0 Oct 28 19:44:08 <oil> can look at the history to see if a url was put in after that Oct 28 19:44:57 <Robi_> that was quick Oct 28 19:45:14 <gkatsev> sweet! totally setting that up. Oct 28 19:45:15 <destinal> we should start collecting all the URL's on that page now too and listing what version number each is Oct 28 19:45:49 <Stugots> ++ Oct 28 19:46:00 <Stugots> great... now i forgot why i downloaded the webosdr jar Oct 28 19:48:35 <en0x> lol Oct 28 19:49:53 <Robi_> heh twitterers appreciating the pre USB drive trick Oct 28 19:53:11 <FreeTim3> ? what trick? Oct 28 19:54:29 <en0x> idk some usb drive trick Oct 28 19:54:30 <en0x> ;] Oct 28 19:58:00 <Robi_> oh schweet, there's an update all button in preware now Oct 28 19:58:09 * Robi_ hugz whomever did that Oct 28 19:58:29 <Robi_> not that it does anything yet Oct 28 19:58:47 * Robi_ suspects rwhitby Oct 28 20:02:22 <egaudet_work> what usb drive trick? Oct 28 20:16:57 <odontastic> hmm Oct 28 20:18:52 <A2NY> hmm Oct 28 20:34:21 <Marajin> hmm Oct 28 20:34:29 <Marajin> ya know I think my AIM messaging has broken on my pre Oct 28 20:34:40 <Marajin> it says it can't connect to the server but I'm positive that aim's servers are fine Oct 28 20:39:16 <A2NY> cycle the modem ? Oct 28 20:56:33 <rwhitby> morning Oct 28 20:58:48 <oil> so i see dude never replied to your question about that feature he claims to have added Oct 28 21:03:55 <rwhitby> oil: yep. "the silence is deafening" ;-) Oct 28 21:05:41 <rwhitby> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGoPQvax10U - Dion is talking about Preware at 3:40 ... Oct 28 21:06:09 <Robi_> egaudet: no the new upgrade all button.. rwhitby was that you? Oct 28 21:06:41 <oil> rwhitby: yeah, i bet the one guy who claps at the feeds thing was rick xD Oct 28 21:06:46 <rwhitby> Robi_: it's a planned feature, that's waiting for robust dependencies to be finished Oct 28 21:06:55 <rwhitby> oil: guaranteed Oct 28 21:06:57 <Robi_> kk Oct 28 21:06:59 <oil> yeah, the update all button doesn't do anything Oct 28 21:07:00 <oil> haha Oct 28 21:07:08 * Robi_ still hugs rwhitby Oct 28 21:07:21 <oil> it pops up with something like "this doesn't work yet, lol" Oct 28 21:07:36 * Robi_ had to EPR today Oct 28 21:17:15 <Robi_> ok posted pics on my pre usb boot install post Oct 28 21:22:32 <Mousey> alternative boot? Oct 28 21:23:00 <destinal> Robi_: what post? Oct 28 21:23:05 <destinal> link? Oct 28 21:24:18 <rwhitby> destinal: Robi_ used a Pre to install windows 7 on a PC Oct 28 21:24:47 <rwhitby> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2002802#post2002802 Oct 28 21:26:32 <Robi_> ya that shoudl be it Oct 28 21:26:41 <destinal> oh, neat. basically applies to installing win7 off any usb drive Oct 28 21:26:49 <Robi_> yes Oct 28 21:27:12 <Robi_> cept that's the only large enough one i had Oct 28 21:27:17 <destinal> I've wondered how to do that before, nice writeup Oct 28 21:27:19 <Robi_> ro a bit of pre marketing Oct 28 21:27:25 <Robi_> s/ro/so Oct 28 21:27:41 <Robi_> gathered a crowd ;] Oct 28 21:27:45 <oil> lol Oct 28 21:28:25 * rwhitby hugs SirWill Oct 28 21:28:27 <Robi_> lots of interesting comments.. most start with wtf Oct 28 21:29:01 <oil> why are you hugging sirwill? Oct 28 21:29:04 <rwhitby> oil: looks like SirWill is uploading pictures for the Preware wiki page Oct 28 21:29:53 <rwhitby> (RSS feed on wiki recent changes) Oct 28 21:29:56 <destinal> what would be cool, is to be able to have lots of small livecd's on your pre and then be able to select which one to present. Oct 28 21:30:21 <oil> yeah Oct 28 21:31:52 <Abyssul> Morning Oct 28 21:33:31 <destinal> Abyssul: good afternoon :) Oct 28 21:36:50 <rwhitby> destinal: with control of the usb drive stuff, you could do that Oct 28 21:37:14 <rwhitby> we need to work out and document how all that stuff works ... Oct 28 21:41:30 <Marajin> a2ny1: sorry for slow reply, I have several times, it's just not working Oct 28 21:43:24 <Marajin> A2NY: Ah there you are :p Oct 28 21:43:43 <Marajin> A2NY: I said sorry for slow reply, I have cycled several times and gtalk signs in fine it's just aim that went bang Oct 28 21:45:23 <Abyssul> hmmm Droid can do multitasking? Oct 28 21:46:21 <A2NY> :D Oct 28 21:48:06 <Abyssul> http://www.billshrink.com/blog/total-cost-of-ownership-motorola-droid-versus-iphone-3gs-versus-palm-pre/ Oct 28 21:56:16 <Abyssul> Is there a way to raise the accelerometer above 4Hz? Oct 28 21:59:59 <Marajin> Abyssul: With a pitch shifter! Oct 28 22:01:44 <Marajin> Abyssul: more seriously though, I assume you're talking about refresh frequency? Oct 28 22:01:51 <Marajin> Abyssul: why would you need more than 4hz? Oct 28 22:02:50 <A2NY> those with the top bar battery percent, when you kill powerd what does it display ? Oct 28 22:03:31 <Marajin> 'lo lingfish Oct 28 22:03:41 <lingfish> yo... my US provider Xen box was down :/ Oct 28 22:11:09 <oil> rwhitby: getAppinfoFile? Oct 28 22:13:20 <A2NY> oil, im lazy Oct 28 22:13:35 <A2NY> get my borders working with the terminal pref Oct 28 22:13:38 <oil> A2NY welcome to the club Oct 28 22:13:42 <freakout> rwhitby: just received word from Palm (finally). SIM issues should be fixed with next webOS update Oct 28 22:14:17 <freakout> off to work. sigh Oct 28 22:14:23 <oil> sux Oct 28 22:14:46 * freakout-work nods Oct 28 22:15:01 <patm> i'm trying to do the 'turn off after x time' patch. i've done it before and it has worked fine, but now if i add options to the availableTimers list they aren't showing up in the Screen and Lock, turn off after listbox. any thoughts about this are appreciated. Oct 28 22:15:09 <dBsooner> oil Oct 28 22:15:13 <A2NY> oil Oct 28 22:15:16 <oil> now now Oct 28 22:15:18 <freakout-work> oil Oct 28 22:15:21 <oil> lol Oct 28 22:15:47 <dBsooner> What are the chances of lowering the font by 1 or 2 pt's for the patches list? Oct 28 22:16:01 <oil> why? Oct 28 22:16:43 <dBsooner> Just to get those precious 2 or 3 more letters onthe the screen Oct 28 22:16:49 <oil> lol Oct 28 22:16:49 <freakout-work> dBsooner, just fork preware. xD Oct 28 22:17:03 <dBsooner> freakout-work: Aye.. I bet the Installer guy would do it. Oct 28 22:17:15 <oil> then make wild clames of all the additions you've made that are invisible in the code Oct 28 22:17:22 <dBsooner> yes Oct 28 22:17:25 <dBsooner> It's a new language.. Oct 28 22:17:29 <freakout-work> Better Installer: now with shrooms Oct 28 22:17:39 <A2NY> I forked preware and made it faster Oct 28 22:17:42 <dBsooner> "Ghost Code" Oct 28 22:17:44 <oil> lol Oct 28 22:17:54 <zsoc> lulz Oct 28 22:17:56 <freakout-work> lol. you could make a bill cosby movie outta that i'm sure Oct 28 22:18:11 <zsoc> I'm so glad I came back just in time for that statement Oct 28 22:18:17 <zsoc> freakout-work, also, good ghost dad reference Oct 28 22:18:21 * Mousey updates feeds Oct 28 22:18:38 <PreMan> Anyone here want to try to break a simple transposition cipher? Oct 28 22:18:39 <freakout-work> zsoc, is any ghost dad reference a good reference? xD Oct 28 22:18:56 * zsoc wonders if this is #webos-cracking Oct 28 22:19:04 <zsoc> Where's Puff at? Oct 28 22:19:18 <PreMan> Someone please break the following simple transposition cipher, here's the ciphertext --> ohceltoetstscefreppinoaterosnemecrovhssiweinehfetlosulpjboaatlciaprofnoim Oct 28 22:19:28 <dBsooner> zsoc: slap Stugots and he'll tell you. Oct 28 22:19:35 * zsoc pokes Stugots Oct 28 22:19:39 <oil> Puff = Stugots Oct 28 22:19:54 <freakout-work> I liked Puff better Oct 28 22:20:13 <dBsooner> oil, really though. Like any chance? Oct 28 22:20:32 * freakout-work thinks oil should add a Prefs option to let the user choose font size Oct 28 22:20:47 <zsoc> Where's the best documentation on how to package a script/patch for the webos patches feed? Oct 28 22:20:49 <freakout-work> which is prolly a total PITA, but we'd love you for it. Oct 28 22:20:57 <zsoc> oil, also, how's wIRCd going? Oct 28 22:21:05 <Mousey> http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/ssw/cs355/proj3 Oct 28 22:21:16 <oil> dBsooner: idk, i think the font size is good how it is, just make your names shorter Oct 28 22:21:19 <Mousey> PreMan: --^ Oct 28 22:21:25 <oil> zsoc: still waiting on the service Oct 28 22:21:27 <freakout-work> oil, i also have a strange rash on my thigh. Can you recommend a good analgesic cream, or should i just stop rubbing it against foreign objects? Oct 28 22:21:27 <zsoc> Mousey, nice find Oct 28 22:21:31 <PreMan> lol Oct 28 22:21:35 <oil> afaik it hasn't even been started yet Oct 28 22:21:36 <zsoc> oil, how much have we tried to bribe Puff so far? Oct 28 22:21:40 <dBsooner> oil: It's hard. I am trying to make them as short as possible. But some of these patches are next to impossible. Oct 28 22:21:53 <oil> freakout-work: keep rubbing against foreign objects Oct 28 22:21:56 <patm> in fact, if i change any of the values to be gt 180 it fails Oct 28 22:21:58 * corq-FL is just watching the oil pile-on Oct 28 22:22:00 <A2NY> mine was easy :P Oct 28 22:22:07 <dBsooner> And if rwhitby's poll comes back as the community wants to be able to name things themselves, it will make it even harder. Oct 28 22:22:16 <dBsooner> Right now it's about 23 characters Oct 28 22:23:21 <oil> yeah, and im thinking about making it 2 lines in the list and maybe in the view scene Oct 28 22:23:25 <oil> i just haven't decided yet Oct 28 22:24:24 <patm> tharris-, can i ask you a question about your turn off after x patch? Oct 28 22:25:16 <zsoc> Where's the best documentation on how to package a script/patch for the webos patches feed? Oct 28 22:25:44 <A2NY> aren't they auto packaged ? Oct 28 22:25:49 <dBsooner> 2 lines wouldn't be a great idea. That would look bad for those that don't need 2 lines. Oct 28 22:26:07 <oil> have you seen the app catalog? Oct 28 22:26:11 <oil> it does 2 lines just fine Oct 28 22:26:14 <dBsooner> oh Oct 28 22:26:19 * dBsooner doesn't do app catalog often Oct 28 22:28:10 <Stugots> zsoc: i havent recieved any bribes yet Oct 28 22:28:41 <Stugots> and i didnt know i had to pick nicks that made people feel happy Oct 28 22:30:53 * patm slaps tharris- around a bit with a large trout Oct 28 22:30:55 <zsoc> Stugots, oh there you are. How did you go about your ip forwarding bit? Did you just enable usbnet, set DisableIpForwarding to 1 in PmConnectionManager, and iptables something like... iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o ppp0 -j MASQUERADE ? Oct 28 22:31:40 <Stugots> zsoc: my service mounts a new proc to /tmp/proc Oct 28 22:31:55 <zsoc> Stugots, is your service released? Oct 28 22:31:58 <Stugots> and it creates a fifo called /dev/freeTether/ip_forward Oct 28 22:32:12 <Stugots> and i mount --bind that over the real ip_forward Oct 28 22:32:18 <zsoc> Oh, that's very... efficient :P Oct 28 22:32:21 <zsoc> and safe, actually Oct 28 22:32:28 <Stugots> and i use libnotify Oct 28 22:32:37 <Stugots> to see who tries to write to that fifo Oct 28 22:32:43 <Stugots> and if tis a palm service i block the write Oct 28 22:32:57 <Stugots> if its any other service i relay it to the alternate ip_forward Oct 28 22:33:02 <zsoc> ok ok , we're all impressed, so give me the service :P Oct 28 22:34:05 <Stugots> lol Oct 28 22:34:15 <Stugots> u just need to stop PmConnectionManager Oct 28 22:34:15 <zsoc> Stugots, i mean, 'let me test it for you' Oct 28 22:34:21 <Stugots> and set ip_forward to 1 Oct 28 22:34:29 <Stugots> and then enable nat Oct 28 22:34:34 <Stugots> look in /tmp Oct 28 22:34:41 <Stugots> for a dir like pm<something> Oct 28 22:34:43 <Stugots> i forget Oct 28 22:34:46 <Stugots> in that dir is another file Oct 28 22:34:52 <Stugots> write interface=usb0 Oct 28 22:34:58 <Stugots> then restart dnsmasq Oct 28 22:35:05 <zsoc> hm Oct 28 22:35:07 <Stugots> and thene verything should work Oct 28 22:35:14 <zsoc> i assume static ip only? Oct 28 22:35:22 <Stugots> umm Oct 28 22:35:25 <Stugots> no Oct 28 22:35:28 <Stugots> u can do dhcp Oct 28 22:35:31 <Stugots> but u have to add another line Oct 28 22:35:37 <Stugots> to that file Oct 28 22:35:52 <Stugots> if u look in /etc/dnsmasq.conf Oct 28 22:35:55 <Stugots> u will see Oct 28 22:35:59 <Stugots> but dont edit that file Oct 28 22:36:02 <Stugots> edit the file in /tmp Oct 28 22:38:12 <zsoc> I got ip forwarding working pretty well with the aformentioned iptables setting. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to Aunt Minnie it.. but I guess the best option is wait for you to finish your service :P Oct 28 22:45:49 <patm> tharris- ayt? Oct 28 22:46:15 <Stugots> zsoc: u dont need to auntminne it Oct 28 22:46:19 <Stugots> im making a service/gui for it Oct 28 22:46:48 <rwhitby> oil: yes, getAppinfoFile(package:string) Oct 28 22:47:02 <Stugots> unless u are trying to steal my project ;) Oct 28 22:49:46 <zsoc> Stugots, no :( just trying to get a friend to stop bothering me Oct 28 22:50:07 <zsoc> Stugots, maybe i can help with your project :D plus the faster you get it fun, the faster wIRC service happens Oct 28 22:50:08 <oil> rwhitby: it doesn't seem to be returning the appinfo Oct 28 22:51:08 <rwhitby> oil: I thought I tested it, but will do so again now Oct 28 22:52:57 <rwhitby> oil: seems to work for me Oct 28 22:53:32 <rwhitby> oil: I get a size field and a contents field, and the contents field contains the raw contents of the appinfo file Oct 28 22:53:50 <Robi_> rwhitby: so you gonna stick with the changed GPS settings? Oct 28 22:55:02 <rwhitby> Robi_: well, neither stock nor changed settings work, so it doesn't really matter ... Oct 28 22:55:30 <Robi_> o rly? why Oct 28 22:55:41 <Robi_> thread seemed to indicate improvement Oct 28 22:55:58 <rwhitby> Robi_: no-one else in the thread is in the southern hemisphere ... Oct 28 22:56:01 <Robi_> only for US phones? Oct 28 22:56:28 <Robi_> ah, well once you do get a fix, it should help Oct 28 22:56:40 <rwhitby> Palm are aware of the problem, have requested further information from me, and I have sent them the lowest-level debug trace possible. Oct 28 22:56:42 <Robi_> sat pos fix that is Oct 28 22:56:53 <Robi_> sweet Oct 28 22:56:53 <zsoc> rwhitby, that sounds.... very long Oct 28 22:57:05 <rwhitby> zsoc: 210KB long for a single fix attempt Oct 28 22:57:15 <Robi_> why dont they just hire you Oct 28 22:57:24 <zsoc> Robi_, they couldn't pay him enough Oct 28 22:57:29 <Abyssul> why don't they just implement any of our patches? Oct 28 22:57:36 <oil> rwhitby: ah, i was calling the wrong one :( Oct 28 22:57:41 <Abyssul> There are a lot of questions we have for Palm :) Oct 28 22:57:54 <A2NY> I thought we knew them all =\ Oct 28 22:57:59 <Robi_> more fun this way Oct 28 22:58:07 <rwhitby> Robi_: if they hired me, I wouldn't be able to do any of the webos-internals stuff that I currently do. Oct 28 22:58:18 <Robi_> probably Oct 28 22:58:26 <rwhitby> Robi_: so it's likely that webos-internals is more valuable being separate from Palm Oct 28 22:58:41 <Robi_> checks and balances Oct 28 22:58:53 <rwhitby> more about supported and unsupporte Oct 28 22:58:55 <rwhitby> d Oct 28 22:59:17 <Robi_> stays more of a passion Oct 28 23:06:15 <bhern> so any folks here at the Sprint developer conference? Oct 28 23:06:38 <Robi_> virtually.. on twitter ;] Oct 28 23:06:47 <oil> rwhitby: think its safe to assume that anything with an appinfo is of 'Application' type Oct 28 23:08:29 <OrtwinR2> Is there a way to enter { and } on the terminal app? Oct 28 23:08:59 <Stugots> bhern: just rick i beleive and he is "not here" cause he is at the conference Oct 28 23:09:16 <Flashpass> I just got back from the conference :) Oct 28 23:09:48 <rwhitby> OrtwinR2: the latest Terminal has a help screen with those things Oct 28 23:10:21 <oil> but, there isn't a way to enter {} in terminal Oct 28 23:10:22 <Abyssul> Wow people can be stupid sometimes... Oct 28 23:10:46 <rwhitby> Abyssul: more than half the population is of below-average intelligence ... Oct 28 23:11:11 * rwhitby sometimes includes himself in that lower half ... Oct 28 23:11:28 <Robi_> to blend in i'm sure Oct 28 23:11:35 <rwhitby> more often than not on Monday mornings ... Oct 28 23:11:39 <OrtwinR2> Cool, didn't know about the help screen, yet, but as far as I can tell, { and } are missing... Oct 28 23:12:25 <rwhitby> Flashpass: has Rick done his talk yet? Oct 28 23:12:25 <oil> yeah, you can't do {} in terminal Oct 28 23:12:51 <Robi_> where is the vCrumbs app ? Oct 28 23:13:07 <rwhitby> oil: is that just cause we didn't have a spare mapping to put it on, or a more fundamental reason? Oct 28 23:13:43 <oil> idk Oct 28 23:13:48 <oil> i just know its not possible Oct 28 23:16:46 * Mousey erases awk Oct 28 23:16:49 <Mousey> won't be needing that i guess Oct 28 23:17:16 <Stugots> i wonder if we can get palm to replace vi with vim Oct 28 23:17:30 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:17:51 <Stugots> in fact, i have a huge todo/wishlist for palm Oct 28 23:18:24 <rwhitby> Stugots: they've got this forum thing happening with a spot for that on developer.palm.com ... Oct 28 23:18:30 <oil> i think you should get johns email Oct 28 23:18:32 <oil> and let him know Oct 28 23:18:38 <oil> LOL Oct 28 23:18:40 <Stugots> oil: john who? Oct 28 23:18:49 <rwhitby> oil's mate John Oct 28 23:19:14 <oil> isn't that his first name? Oct 28 23:19:33 <oil> Jon Oct 28 23:19:37 <oil> sorry, no h Oct 28 23:19:37 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:19:44 <Flashpass> +rwhitby: I'm not sure where his talk is/was, I don't know who he is to be honest :) Oct 28 23:19:53 <oil> Jon Rubinstein Oct 28 23:20:20 <rwhitby> Flashpass: he's the one with the webos-internals logo on his name badge, who stands up in all the Palm sessions and evangelises about webos-internals ... Oct 28 23:21:06 <rwhitby> he's doing the webOS and Open Source talk. Oct 28 23:22:11 <Flashpass> ah okay, I thik that is happening right now Oct 28 23:22:13 <Flashpass> or just ended Oct 28 23:22:23 <Flashpass> I had to go back top the office so I missed it Oct 28 23:23:13 <Flashpass> 345-430pm PST, he's probably finishing up now Oct 28 23:24:14 <Stugots> rwhitby: i havent been to their site since i got that e-mail saying the domain was changing Oct 28 23:26:43 <Stugots> well from what rick was saying the otherday about not many palm devs knowing/using our wiki i'd say after they hear his talk we get an influx of nice apps/services/plugins etc. Oct 28 23:28:05 * oil hopes so Oct 28 23:28:18 <Flashpass> they gave away rediculous amounts of stuff at the conference, was awesome Oct 28 23:28:29 <A2NY> any pixi's ;) Oct 28 23:29:15 <rwhitby> Flashpass: HTC did, did anyone else? Oct 28 23:29:21 <Flashpass> haha not that I saw, I got an HTC Hero and a BB Tour though, and a 4g usb adapter...super generous lol Oct 28 23:29:57 <Flashpass> HTC gave the most out, anyone who did coding the first day got one, and gave one away every ten minutes the following day during booth times Oct 28 23:31:54 <A2NY> impressive, go you Oct 28 23:32:28 <Flashpass> Yeah, was very fortunate, need to ask the boss to goto more conferences Oct 28 23:33:02 <PatchWelcomed> rwhitby: ^^ Oct 28 23:33:45 * rwhitby context switches, and wonders why he bothered ... Oct 28 23:34:38 * PatchWelcomed is confused. Oct 28 23:36:43 <dBsooner> egaudet, rwhitby: What do you all think of my idea to change the names of patches, but keeping them "upgradeable"? (WITHOUT having to have a separate $NAME from $TITLE.) Oct 28 23:37:16 <rwhitby> dBsooner: at what point do you remove the old package from the feed? Oct 28 23:37:27 <dBsooner> 30 days? Oct 28 23:37:42 <dBsooner> 90 days? Oct 28 23:38:08 <dBsooner> I would say no more than 90 because of the "hopeful" lifecycle of WebOS. Oct 28 23:38:32 <egaudet> I'm pretty sure it was my idea so you know how I feel Oct 28 23:38:35 <dBsooner> but I guess that doesn't really matter. Oct 28 23:38:41 <dBsooner> LOL Oct 28 23:38:51 <dBsooner> I thought your idea was the other way Oct 28 23:38:58 <Abyssul> Can anyone find out why the "<3" doesn't change to the icon in incoming text messages but they do for outgoing? Oct 28 23:39:05 <dBsooner> I apologize, "...what do you think of Eric's idea"? Oct 28 23:39:08 <egaudet> I'm confused Oct 28 23:39:34 <dBsooner> So what I described is your exact idea? Oct 28 23:39:44 <egaudet> Are you talking about the dummy package upgrade that just removes the package? Oct 28 23:39:46 <dBsooner> I guess it finally clicked what you had told me. Oct 28 23:40:16 <dBsooner> Kind of. Oct 28 23:40:21 <egaudet> or do you have a different idea? Oct 28 23:40:33 <dBsooner> It would just be an upgrade package that let the user know there is an "upgrade" for their current package Oct 28 23:41:00 <dBsooner> but the DESC would say, "<NAME> is NOW OBSOLETE. PLEASE REMOVE IT AND INSTALL <NEW_NAME>." Oct 28 23:41:10 <egaudet> yea that's what I had in mind Oct 28 23:41:12 <dBsooner> and of course Preware has the "REMOVE" button. Oct 28 23:41:18 <egaudet> except the upgrade would just be a return 1 in postinst Oct 28 23:41:22 <dBsooner> It would be even better if it wasn't "installable" Oct 28 23:41:53 <oil> wow Oct 28 23:42:01 <oil> im a little shocked that ../packageid/icon.png works Oct 28 23:42:02 <egaudet> it can't not be installable Oct 28 23:42:03 <dBsooner> and since it returned 1, it would cause a ipkg remove Oct 28 23:42:03 <egaudet> it's a package Oct 28 23:42:06 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:42:27 <egaudet> yea return 1 will make ipkgservice "remove" it Oct 28 23:42:36 <rwhitby> alternatively, we could add support for Supercedes: in Preware ... Oct 28 23:42:51 <oil> we're addin what now? Oct 28 23:42:52 <dBsooner> Yeah, that's what I had in mind. I guess I just didn't realize it was your exact message. Oct 28 23:43:06 <dBsooner> rwhitby: That would be awesome! Oct 28 23:43:17 <rwhitby> oil: ipkg supports a Supercedes: field Oct 28 23:43:22 <dBsooner> and have the IPKG_SERVICE look for a "SUPERCEDE" Oct 28 23:43:29 <rwhitby> I'm not sure how we'd use it yet. Oct 28 23:43:45 <dBsooner> so if there is a NEW_PACKAGE that is a SUPERCEDE for PACKAGE, it shows NEW_PACKAGE as the upgrade Oct 28 23:43:51 <rwhitby> oil: It's similar to Conflicts: Oct 28 23:43:58 <oil> ah Oct 28 23:47:04 <egaudet> Supercedes support would be ideal Oct 28 23:47:18 <oil> hmm Oct 28 23:47:41 * dBsooner agrees. Oct 28 23:52:14 <egaudet> alright i'll be back in a bit Oct 28 23:53:07 <dBsooner> that a hint eric? Oct 28 23:53:10 <dBsooner> egaudet: .. Oct 28 23:53:47 <oil> well Oct 28 23:54:08 <oil> application packages not in a feed look sexy now Oct 28 23:54:25 <dBsooner> new icon? Oct 28 23:54:26 <dBsooner> :D Oct 28 23:54:45 <oil> loading it right out of the app directory Oct 28 23:54:49 <dBsooner> nice Oct 28 23:54:55 <oil> which i didn't think would work Oct 28 23:55:05 <oil> i guess technically i could load any file or javascript from any app Oct 28 23:55:06 <oil> lol Oct 28 23:55:25 <dBsooner> Could having the icons preloaded into the directory and redered from there speed up load? Oct 28 23:55:42 <oil> download them? Oct 28 23:55:44 <dBsooner> in reference to all icons we currently use Oct 28 23:55:55 <dBsooner> Possibly. Store then in a cache Oct 28 23:56:01 <oil> so really, you're thinking about patch icons Oct 28 23:56:08 <dBsooner> lol Oct 28 23:56:11 <dBsooner> at first Oct 28 23:56:18 <dBsooner> but then creating a cache download Oct 28 23:56:51 <dBsooner> s/cache download/download cache/ Oct 28 23:56:52 <infobot> dBsooner meant: but then creating a download cache Oct 29 00:05:01 <oil> rwhitby: what was control info for again? Oct 29 00:09:00 <rwhitby> oil: it returns the .control file from the original ipkg Oct 29 00:10:08 * Stugots is craving some Sim City 4 for some reason Oct 29 00:10:25 <Stugots> daa daa da da daaaa Oct 29 00:10:31 <Stugots> ^^ sim city theme song Oct 29 00:10:36 <oil> oh no, gonna boot to windows? Oct 29 00:10:41 <Stugots> oil: Wine Oct 29 00:10:45 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:10:48 <Stugots> oil: i wil never run windows Oct 29 00:10:50 <Stugots> ever gain Oct 29 00:10:55 <oil> imho, sim city 2000 was the best one Oct 29 00:11:00 <Stugots> naaa Oct 29 00:11:02 <Stugots> 4 is good Oct 29 00:11:04 <oil> 2 was shit Oct 29 00:11:09 <Stugots> 2000 was nice Oct 29 00:11:10 <oil> 4 is ok Oct 29 00:11:17 <Stugots> 3000 sucked Oct 29 00:11:18 <oil> i mean, 3 was shit Oct 29 00:11:19 <Stugots> 4 was good Oct 29 00:11:26 <oil> 4 was better then 3, but not as good as 2000 Oct 29 00:11:31 <Stugots> ehhh Oct 29 00:11:38 <Stugots> u were in middle school then Oct 29 00:11:39 <Mousey> the Simcity 2K Network Edition was the best Oct 29 00:11:43 <Stugots> every was sweet then Oct 29 00:11:52 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:11:53 <Stugots> Mousey: NE was stupid Oct 29 00:11:57 <oil> hell Oct 29 00:11:58 <Mousey> it was awesome! Oct 29 00:12:00 <Stugots> when i got that, it didnt work Oct 29 00:12:04 <oil> the first sim city was better then 3000 Oct 29 00:12:05 <Mousey> i wish the contemporaries were as cool Oct 29 00:12:06 <oil> lets behonest Oct 29 00:12:10 <Stugots> haha Oct 29 00:12:14 <Mousey> =P Oct 29 00:12:20 <Stugots> we need PreCity network edition Oct 29 00:12:23 <Mousey> s/as cool/networkable/ Oct 29 00:12:31 <Mousey> totally. with ESCROW Oct 29 00:12:39 <Mousey> that was cool. had to WAIT to used bought land Oct 29 00:12:51 <oil> im thinking doing that with javascript/html is going to be shit Oct 29 00:12:51 <Stugots> idk... the whole region concept in 4 is cool Oct 29 00:12:54 <Mousey> could make contracts between mayors Oct 29 00:12:57 <Mousey> that was awesome sauce Oct 29 00:12:59 <Stugots> oil: in JS Oct 29 00:13:00 <Stugots> fuck that Oct 29 00:13:00 <oil> gonna have to do it with a plugin Oct 29 00:13:04 <Stugots> do it in plugin Oct 29 00:13:06 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:13:13 <Stugots> when we get directfb shit working Oct 29 00:13:16 * oil would play it Oct 29 00:13:20 <Stugots> me too Oct 29 00:13:23 * Mousey would play that with oil Oct 29 00:13:26 <Stugots> that woul dbe the last app ever made Oct 29 00:13:32 <Stugots> cause everyone would be busy playing Oct 29 00:13:33 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:13:35 <rwhitby> just run the existing treo one under classic ... Oct 29 00:13:36 <Mousey> ha Oct 29 00:13:38 <oil> except for civilization Oct 29 00:13:41 <Mousey> oooh Oct 29 00:13:43 <Mousey> PreCiv Oct 29 00:13:48 <Mousey> based on FreeCiv anyone? Oct 29 00:13:59 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 29 00:14:03 <Stugots> Civilcation 4 and Simcity4 are the only games i play on pc any more Oct 29 00:14:07 * oil waits for mousey to finish it Oct 29 00:14:08 <Stugots> Civ 4 w/ mods ftw! Oct 29 00:14:11 * Mousey thinks . o O ( best thread Evar! ) Oct 29 00:14:26 <Mousey> i've played months long games of freeciv Oct 29 00:14:35 <Stugots> freeciv? Oct 29 00:14:37 <Stugots> is it any good Oct 29 00:14:37 <Mousey> yes Oct 29 00:14:41 <Mousey> it's AWESOME Oct 29 00:14:43 <Mousey> well Oct 29 00:14:44 <Stugots> i cant imagine it being as good as civ 4 Oct 29 00:14:46 <Mousey> it's not Civ4 Oct 29 00:14:46 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:14:49 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:14:49 <Mousey> but it's TOTALLY playable Oct 29 00:14:52 <Stugots> yeah Oct 29 00:14:54 <Mousey> open, extensive Oct 29 00:14:54 <Stugots> but its like Oct 29 00:14:59 <Stugots> '90s graphics Oct 29 00:15:00 <Mousey> fits in ram Oct 29 00:15:02 <Mousey> so what? Oct 29 00:15:04 <oil> its like civ2 Oct 29 00:15:07 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:15:08 <Stugots> yeah Oct 29 00:15:14 <oil> not that civ2 was bad Oct 29 00:15:14 <Stugots> its almost 2012 Oct 29 00:15:15 <Mousey> games are fun because they're fun, not because they're glitzy Oct 29 00:15:20 <Mousey> plus Oct 29 00:15:30 <Stugots> Mayan Cosmogenesis time Oct 29 00:15:33 <Mousey> it's FREE, so porting (the hard part) it is already done Oct 29 00:15:53 <Mousey> good luck getting Sid Meier to port Civ4 Oct 29 00:16:02 <oil> lol Oct 29 00:16:11 <oil> they did simcity on the jesusphone didn't they? Oct 29 00:16:13 <Stugots> Mousey: we can run wine on the pre :D Oct 29 00:16:20 <Mousey> oh there's a solution Oct 29 00:16:23 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:16:29 <Mousey> =P Oct 29 00:16:32 <Mousey> i'm just sayin' Oct 29 00:16:43 <Mousey> it's fun, it's foss, the hard work is done already Oct 29 00:16:51 <Mousey> should get a wesnoth port too, that'd be epic Oct 29 00:17:02 <Mousey> although, freeciv would be more fun, imho Oct 29 00:17:27 <Mousey> and pidgin, and xchat ports.. and Warzone2100 ports! Oct 29 00:17:38 <Mousey> then the Pre will finally be the n900! Oct 29 00:17:41 <Mousey> only cdma Oct 29 00:17:43 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 29 00:17:51 <Stugots> pre can never be n9xx Oct 29 00:17:59 <Mousey> oh Oct 29 00:18:02 <Mousey> n810? Oct 29 00:18:05 <Mousey> with a cel radio? Oct 29 00:18:17 <Mousey> i mean.. all those games already have maemo equivalents Oct 29 00:18:20 <Mousey> tho Maemo runs X Oct 29 00:18:23 <Mousey> so that's a difference Oct 29 00:18:34 <Mousey> higher res too.. Oct 29 00:18:39 <zsoc> freeciv ++ Oct 29 00:19:13 <Mousey> ^_^ Oct 29 00:19:52 <Stugots> when is sim 5 comming out? Oct 29 00:19:58 <Stugots> Tekken 6 for ps3 is out Oct 29 00:19:58 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:20:01 <Stugots> thats gonna be money Oct 29 00:20:15 <Mousey> Prekken! Oct 29 00:20:19 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:20:26 <Mousey> now with shake and tilt input! Oct 29 00:20:34 * zsoc travels to the future to watch rod read the backlogs in realtime Oct 29 00:21:21 <oil> this is relevant -internals discussion Oct 29 00:24:30 <Stugots> so for freeTether Oct 29 00:24:31 <Stugots> im thinking Oct 29 00:24:36 <Stugots> instead of just doing ad hoc wifi Oct 29 00:24:45 <oil> gah Oct 29 00:24:45 <Stugots> im gonna let connect to an AP Oct 29 00:24:54 <Stugots> so that lots of pc's can use the pre for internet Oct 29 00:24:55 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:25:06 <rwhitby> Stugots: hostapd ftw Oct 29 00:25:20 <Stugots> rwhitby: does that work with the pre's driver? Oct 29 00:25:25 <rwhitby> Stugots: dunno Oct 29 00:25:26 <Stugots> i didnt think it did Oct 29 00:25:35 <Stugots> or else that would be another option too Oct 29 00:30:57 <rwhitby> Stugots: do you mean you're going to get the Pre to connect to an AP, and publish a route or something, or do you mean you're going to get the Pre to act as an AP? Oct 29 00:31:09 * zsoc wonders why the pre doesn't have lspci installed Oct 29 00:31:14 * zsoc wonders why lspci/usb isn't in busybox Oct 29 00:32:55 <Stugots> yeah, connect to an AP and then if other people add the pre IP as a default gw they should get internet Oct 29 00:33:02 <rwhitby> zsoc: pciutils and lsbutils in optware Oct 29 00:33:20 <zsoc> rwhitby, ah ty Oct 29 00:33:28 <zsoc> also what's this dspbridge thing? Oct 29 00:33:30 <oil> rwhitby: so control is basically the same format as rawlist? Oct 29 00:34:03 <rwhitby> oil: pretty much, but gives you the info for packages that are no longer in the feed. Oct 29 00:34:26 <rwhitby> there may be small differences depending on what ipkg-make-index does in feed index creation Oct 29 00:34:31 <zsoc> hm.. there's no /proc/bus/pci... although there is a /proc/bus/input Oct 29 00:34:56 <rwhitby> oil: e.g. we may fix stuff in the feed index for ipkgs which have bad control file info Oct 29 00:35:00 <zsoc> er, i should say /proc/bus/input/devices Oct 29 00:35:05 <Stugots> zsoc: the kernel devs definately were smoking some crack rock the day the built the kernel Oct 29 00:35:12 <Stugots> zsoc: they disabled so much usefull shit Oct 29 00:35:13 <rwhitby> oil: but the getControlFile will have the bad info, not the fixed info in the feed Oct 29 00:35:19 <zsoc> Stugots, i won't make the remark i was about to Oct 29 00:35:56 <Stugots> zsoc: :( Oct 29 00:36:06 <zsoc> oooo. cat /proc/uptime Oct 29 00:36:15 <Stugots> zsoc: if i change my nick will you? Oct 29 00:36:23 <zsoc> Stugots, most definitely not lol Oct 29 00:36:43 <Stugots> zsoc: u got no stugots :D Oct 29 00:38:27 <rwhitby> zsoc: dsp is used for media codecs - you can see some of them in the filesystem Oct 29 00:38:35 <rwhitby> s/is/seems to be/ Oct 29 00:38:36 <infobot> rwhitby meant: zsoc: dsp seems to be used for media codecs - you can see some of them in the filesystem Oct 29 00:39:37 <Stugots> zsoc: how is the secret project coming? Oct 29 00:40:38 * oil wonders what secret project is now Oct 29 00:45:33 * Stugots wonders if oil can figure it out Oct 29 00:45:41 <rwhitby> oil: the results I've seen from the secret project look promising ... Oct 29 00:45:55 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:46:23 <oil> :( Oct 29 00:46:34 <Stugots> zsoc: u figure out that last issue you had? Oct 29 00:46:39 <Stugots> with the X not working properly in Y Oct 29 00:46:54 <dBsooner> Oh man.. that's worse than Z not seeing X or Y. Oct 29 00:46:58 <Stugots> s/working properly/being detected/ Oct 29 00:46:58 <infobot> Stugots meant: with the X not being detected in Y Oct 29 00:47:33 <dBsooner> I want a cool hostname Oct 29 00:47:37 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ^^ Oct 29 00:47:49 <rwhitby> ice Oct 29 00:47:51 <Stugots> dBsooner: I name my computers after people in WuTang Oct 29 00:47:53 <Stugots> LD Oct 29 00:47:54 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:48:26 <Stugots> i've got a ODB, Methodman, Ghostface, and a Rza Oct 29 00:48:47 <dBsooner> No, they have hostmask's from FreeNode Oct 29 00:48:49 <dBsooner> I want one. :( Oct 29 00:48:52 <Stugots> oh Oct 29 00:48:53 <Stugots> cloaks Oct 29 00:48:56 <dBsooner> yes Oct 29 00:49:01 <Stugots> good luck with that Oct 29 00:49:04 <Stugots> i mean Oct 29 00:49:07 <Stugots> u can get a generic one Oct 29 00:49:09 <Stugots> easily Oct 29 00:49:16 <dBsooner> Yeah, but that's not as cool. Oct 29 00:49:18 <rwhitby> Exstatica: ping Oct 29 00:49:25 <dBsooner> we should try to get webos-internals Oct 29 00:49:30 <Stugots> but you have to get on your knees and close your eyes and do nasty things to get a project cloak Oct 29 00:49:43 <dBsooner> I vote Stugots goes and does the deed for us. Oct 29 00:49:50 <rwhitby> Stugots: or have someone on staff who likes the project Oct 29 00:49:51 <Stugots> they ar elike 10 years behind giving those out Oct 29 00:49:57 <Stugots> rwhitby: or that ;) Oct 29 00:50:10 <Stugots> or we could move to rizon Oct 29 00:50:11 <dBsooner> rwhitby: know of someone? :D Oct 29 00:50:14 <Stugots> and get them instantly Oct 29 00:50:23 <rwhitby> dBsooner: why do you think I just pinged Exstatica ... Oct 29 00:50:37 <dBsooner> Because he's a friend of yours? ;) Oct 29 00:50:50 <dBsooner> I don't ask why you ping people. Oct 29 00:50:50 <rwhitby> check his cloak ... Oct 29 00:50:51 <zsoc> Stugots, did you suggest my X was not working in my Y? I feel emasculated . Oct 29 00:51:14 <dBsooner> Blah Oct 29 00:51:15 <Stugots> zsoc: no i corrected my statement Oct 29 00:51:22 <dBsooner> freenode/staff means nothing. :D Oct 29 00:51:24 <Stugots> zsoc: i said X wasnt being detected by Y Oct 29 00:51:26 <Stugots> did u fix that/ Oct 29 00:51:28 <Stugots> ? Oct 29 00:52:01 <zsoc> Stugots, since i propagated that problem, i had been away Oct 29 00:52:09 <zsoc> pitty too, i probably could have had it fixed by now Oct 29 00:52:11 <Stugots> oh yeah Oct 29 00:52:20 <dBsooner> Stugots: you use uTorrent in wine/ Oct 29 00:52:25 <zsoc> honestly i might just wait for Pm to fix it at this point, it's such a mess Oct 29 00:52:30 <Stugots> i dont use torrent Oct 29 00:52:34 <Stugots> i use usent and ftp Oct 29 00:52:34 <dBsooner> or is transmission or something similar just as good Oct 29 00:52:46 <dBsooner> boo Oct 29 00:52:50 <Stugots> zsoc: u are like 99% done Oct 29 00:52:58 <Stugots> send me the code when u get a chance Oct 29 00:53:05 <Stugots> and a sample output Oct 29 00:53:25 * Stugots hopes he didnt give away the secret project Oct 29 00:53:29 <dBsooner> I have an account on giganews Oct 29 00:53:48 <dBsooner> But I use torrent for a lot of distro downloads Oct 29 00:53:51 <Stugots> dBsooner: why did you ask Oct 29 00:53:56 <zsoc> Stugots, i don't think it's a secret, but I greatly appreciate your discretion. There is a serious lack of discretion these days. Oct 29 00:54:17 <Stugots> zsoc: im only doing it to piss of oil Oct 29 00:54:19 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:54:23 <dBsooner> Because I am wondering why it's so hard to find a transparent uTorrent icon for the Wine Menu in Gnome Panel. Oct 29 00:54:24 <Stugots> oil: j/k Oct 29 00:54:35 * oil doesn't really care Oct 29 00:54:39 <Stugots> why would u use a windows torrent app in linux Oct 29 00:54:51 <dBsooner> because it is hecka good Oct 29 00:54:52 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 00:54:56 <Stugots> ok Oct 29 00:54:56 <dBsooner> and the lowest footprint i've ever seen Oct 29 00:55:01 <Stugots> ctorrent? Oct 29 00:55:12 <Stugots> dBsooner: are you using a 386 with 32mb ram? Oct 29 00:55:18 <dBsooner> Yep Oct 29 00:55:19 <dBsooner> :D Oct 29 00:55:21 <Stugots> oh ok Oct 29 00:55:30 <Stugots> then yeah wine isnt a waste Oct 29 00:55:32 <dBsooner> Actually.. I have my old 8086dx2 fired up Oct 29 00:55:43 <dBsooner> 2mb ram Oct 29 00:55:45 <Stugots> ktorrent is pretty nice Oct 29 00:55:48 <dBsooner> which is like KILLER fast Oct 29 00:55:49 <Stugots> if you are kde person Oct 29 00:55:55 * dBsooner is Gnome Oct 29 00:55:56 <Stugots> ctorrent for cli people Oct 29 00:56:09 <Stugots> i dont remember what i used in my gnome days Oct 29 00:56:18 <dBsooner> KDE is too fluffy Oct 29 00:56:18 <Stugots> im a fairly recent kde4 convert Oct 29 00:56:22 <Stugots> naaa Oct 29 00:56:25 <dBsooner> yeahhh Oct 29 00:56:26 <Stugots> its beautiful Oct 29 00:56:31 <Stugots> kde3 was ugly as shit Oct 29 00:56:38 <Stugots> i was a huge gnome fan Oct 29 00:56:40 <dBsooner> better than Compiz fusion? Oct 29 00:56:48 <Stugots> you can use compiz with kde Oct 29 00:56:51 <dBsooner> man we need a new channel Oct 29 00:56:54 <Stugots> compiz is the window manager Oct 29 00:57:02 <dBsooner> #webos-watercooler Oct 29 00:57:06 <Stugots> dBsooner: nothing productive happens in this part of the channel Oct 29 00:57:18 <Stugots> its either aunt minnie talk Oct 29 00:57:21 <Stugots> or BS like now Oct 29 00:57:22 <Stugots> :D Oct 29 00:57:24 <dBsooner> heh Oct 29 00:57:32 <dBsooner> Hey now.. there are some arguments Oct 29 00:57:35 <dBsooner> that lead to production Oct 29 00:57:49 <dBsooner> i.e. SUPERCEDE.. *Cough* oil *cough* Oct 29 00:58:11 <dBsooner> not so much arguments as discussions. Oct 29 01:00:52 <dBsooner> Karmic launches very very soon Oct 29 01:02:56 * zsoc builds a box to test karmic on Oct 29 01:03:35 <dBsooner> So Stugots. Oct 29 01:04:07 <dBsooner> I installed the omnibox module. Oct 29 01:04:18 <dBsooner> s/omnibox/omnibook/ Oct 29 01:04:18 <infobot> dBsooner meant: I installed the omnibook module. Oct 29 01:04:47 <dBsooner> it made my fans work more efficiently, and made my Fn+F6,F7 (brightness) keys work.. Oct 29 01:05:24 <dBsooner> But broke my wifi pretty good. Also could never get the laptop to stay turned off after shutdown. Even unloaded the module before shutdown. Still came on at exactly 3 mins powered off. Oct 29 01:05:30 <egaudet> vuze Oct 29 01:07:22 <dBsooner> lol Oct 29 01:07:31 <dBsooner> 2GHz and 1GB of ram as a minimum? Oct 29 01:09:03 <Stugots> dBsooner: well maybe you can modify the source code a little and put ifdefs around the non fan shit Oct 29 01:09:07 <Stugots> so that it dont do anything Oct 29 01:10:21 <dBsooner> or someone should start an ACPI project to create a generic ACPI driver system like MS uses Oct 29 01:10:40 <Stugots> ummm Oct 29 01:10:41 <Stugots> no Oct 29 01:10:47 <Stugots> MS breaks ACPI spec Oct 29 01:10:52 <Stugots> thats the whole issue Oct 29 01:11:03 <Stugots> well Oct 29 01:11:06 <Stugots> no thats wrong Oct 29 01:11:11 <Stugots> there is an ACPI spec Oct 29 01:11:19 <Stugots> toshiba and others dont folllow it Oct 29 01:11:27 <Stugots> then make windows drivers to fix their 1/2 assed ness Oct 29 01:11:33 <dBsooner> Yeah, I am learning toshiba is a crappy lappy Oct 29 01:11:36 <Stugots> which is why linux needs a special driver/module Oct 29 01:11:42 <Stugots> dBsooner: no Oct 29 01:11:46 <Stugots> they just have shitty bioses Oct 29 01:12:03 <dBsooner> Yeah, my Insyde BIOS is very crappy. Oct 29 01:12:04 <Stugots> dBsooner: but to be honest, my toshiba lappy is what got me into kernel hacking Oct 29 01:12:07 <Stugots> which is how i learned C Oct 29 01:12:11 <dBsooner> And I have like NO options to change anything. Oct 29 01:12:17 <Stugots> which is how i learned to use patches Oct 29 01:12:28 <Stugots> dBsooner: just comment out the non fan shit Oct 29 01:12:31 <Stugots> and then rebuild your kernel Oct 29 01:12:34 <Stugots> it shouldnt be hard Oct 29 01:12:46 <dBsooner> yeah, I'll work on that later. Oct 29 01:13:45 <dBsooner> egaudet: you working on this No APp launcher? Oct 29 01:13:49 <dBsooner> or was that for me to do? Oct 29 01:13:54 <egaudet> I haven't worked on it yet Oct 29 01:14:27 <egaudet> If you want to do it you can, I don't have a problem doing it later on though Oct 29 01:16:13 <dBsooner> ill do it now Oct 29 01:16:47 <dBsooner> did you see I committed the change to show actual percent Oct 29 01:18:29 <dBsooner> hmm Oct 29 01:18:36 <dBsooner> app-launcher-no-quick-launcher Oct 29 01:21:55 <dBsooner> egaudet: we need a new name Oct 29 01:22:06 <dBsooner> nah, that works Oct 29 01:22:22 <Abyssul> Can anyone find out why the "<3" doesn't change to the icon in incoming text messages but they do for outgoing? Oct 29 01:23:06 <dBsooner> because it doesn't <3 you Oct 29 01:24:38 <egaudet> name is fine to me Oct 29 01:24:46 <egaudet> does that mean you are doing that one dBsooner ? Oct 29 01:25:17 <dBsooner> I mean I am committing the two that came in Oct 29 01:25:23 <atlanta> hey hey Oct 29 01:25:29 <dBsooner> no-quick-launcher and the newest one Oct 29 01:25:49 <egaudet> are you doing the postinst_extra's? Oct 29 01:25:54 <dBsooner> yes Oct 29 01:25:56 <egaudet> or just commit to gitorious? Oct 29 01:26:01 <dBsooner> im doing both Oct 29 01:26:19 <egaudet> cool, patch meister! Oct 29 01:26:43 <dBsooner> Aww.. shucks. Just call me Daniel or dB, or dBsooner. Oct 29 01:27:02 <egaudet> dBsooner, it's an image replacement, which is like themes Oct 29 01:27:08 <dBsooner> i know Oct 29 01:27:10 <egaudet> and we haven't officially come up with a way to handle this yet Oct 29 01:27:13 <dBsooner> I am looking at the one in themes Oct 29 01:27:14 <egaudet> so want to discuss first Oct 29 01:27:17 <dBsooner> hmm Oct 29 01:27:19 <dBsooner> good idea Oct 29 01:27:33 <dBsooner> i'd say just store the original in the backup area Oct 29 01:27:51 <dBsooner> as long as its md5sum shows its an original and the backup doesn't exist, move it Oct 29 01:28:01 <egaudet> Should we come up with a generic postinst_extra and prerm_extra that operates within autopatch technology so that EPR will recover properly Oct 29 01:28:13 <dBsooner> Might be a good idea. Oct 29 01:29:13 <egaudet> I guess for now the only thing postinst_extra needs to do is backup the orig to .webosinternals.orig Oct 29 01:29:16 <dBsooner> how do you edit the main page on the wiki? Oct 29 01:29:26 <dBsooner> the "portals" link box on the left. Oct 29 01:29:31 <Stugots> egaudet: oh yeah Oct 29 01:29:36 <Stugots> that reminds me Oct 29 01:29:40 <Stugots> egaudet: in the C ipkg service Oct 29 01:29:48 <Stugots> we need to add a way to integrate with the browser Oct 29 01:29:53 <Stugots> so we can do web installs :D Oct 29 01:30:00 <egaudet> hmmm Oct 29 01:30:06 <egaudet> That's dangerous isn't it? Oct 29 01:30:15 <Stugots> no Oct 29 01:30:22 <Stugots> not any more dangerous than feeds Oct 29 01:30:33 <Stugots> it would still use confirmation shit Oct 29 01:30:41 <egaudet> feeds are trusted, if we allow arbitrary url's Oct 29 01:30:46 <Stugots> no they arent Oct 29 01:30:47 <egaudet> that's much more dangerous Oct 29 01:30:50 <egaudet> yes they are Oct 29 01:30:52 <Stugots> feeds are not trusted Oct 29 01:30:55 <egaudet> the default preware feeds are trusted Oct 29 01:30:58 <Stugots> so Oct 29 01:31:01 <egaudet> feeds in package service* Oct 29 01:31:02 <dBsooner> Can we talk about this later? Oct 29 01:31:07 <Stugots> anyone can make a ipkg of a \feed on preware Oct 29 01:31:14 <dBsooner> I want to hammer down this postinst and prerm for images first Oct 29 01:31:27 <Stugots> dBsooner: u cant monopiolize the channel :D Oct 29 01:31:36 <egaudet> yea but that's not the same as going to arbitrary website and installing a package Oct 29 01:31:39 <dBsooner> sigh Oct 29 01:31:48 <Stugots> egaudet: its exactly the same.... Oct 29 01:31:59 <Stugots> precentral dont filter pacakges Oct 29 01:32:07 <Stugots> that i know of Oct 29 01:32:10 <egaudet> precentral is considered trusted feed Oct 29 01:32:16 <rwhitby> Stugots: you can't remove something from a random website. if a feed goes rogure, it can be removed from preware Oct 29 01:32:37 <rwhitby> egaudet: precentral webOS apps is considered trusted feed. we don't pull anything else from there. Oct 29 01:33:16 <egaudet> rwhitby, meaning only standard homebrew apps from precentral? Oct 29 01:33:18 <egaudet> i.e. no postinst Oct 29 01:33:25 <rwhitby> egaudet: correct Oct 29 01:33:32 <rwhitby> since any joe can upload something Oct 29 01:33:33 <Stugots> rwhitby: im not seeing what the issue is a rogue ipkg is still subjected to confirmation service, regardless if its source if a feed or website, why do we need to get into the business of censoring what people can and can not install Oct 29 01:33:40 <Stugots> this is not communist russia Oct 29 01:34:19 <rwhitby> Stugots: people have many means to install stuff from random websites. Preware is not one of those means because it removes one layer of the multi-layered security model. Oct 29 01:34:21 <Stugots> are you gonna remove the whole precentra feed cause of 1 bad app? Oct 29 01:34:44 <rwhitby> Stugots: webOS apps without install scripts cannot be bad Oct 29 01:34:57 <rwhitby> we only accept webOS apps without install scripts from PreCentral Oct 29 01:35:15 <Stugots> you accept everything from precentral ;) Oct 29 01:35:20 <Stugots> err Oct 29 01:35:23 <Stugots> pym Oct 29 01:35:26 <rwhitby> Stugots: and the whole "let's invoke communism to get a reaction" doesn't work on Australians, BTW ... Oct 29 01:35:56 <rwhitby> Stugots: yes, at the moment we do. If you go rogue, that will change. Oct 29 01:36:10 <egaudet> so don't go rogue Oct 29 01:36:22 <Stugots> the "feed" cant go rogue Oct 29 01:36:24 <Stugots> an app can Oct 29 01:36:37 <rwhitby> Stugots: you approve all apps on pym, right? Oct 29 01:36:43 <Stugots> rwhitby: hell no Oct 29 01:36:49 <egaudet> dBsooner, we want to keep track of image changes in backups file, how do we handle a package that wants to overwrite an image that another package already overwrote? Oct 29 01:37:03 <Stugots> rwhitby: i am not in the business of censorship Oct 29 01:37:14 <rwhitby> Stugots: if you don't approve apps on pym which contain install scripts, then we're going to need to filter those out Oct 29 01:37:29 <Stugots> rwhitby: why? Oct 29 01:37:37 <rwhitby> Stugots: references to censorship doesn't work on Australians either ... Oct 29 01:37:46 <rwhitby> Stugots: cause it breaks the chain of trust Oct 29 01:38:08 <Stugots> rwhitby: aussies dont understand the severity of censorship? Oct 29 01:38:13 <Stugots> is that what you are saying? Oct 29 01:38:14 <Joesmith> does the the terminal application support paste? Oct 29 01:38:43 <rwhitby> Stugots: aussies understand what real censorship is, not some idealistic idea of everyone must be able to say anything via any means they want Oct 29 01:38:59 <dBsooner> egaudet: that's the hard point Oct 29 01:39:00 <Stugots> lol Oct 29 01:39:07 <dBsooner> egaudet: no it's not Oct 29 01:39:23 <dBsooner> egaudet: in postinst have it check for $file.webosinternals.orig Oct 29 01:39:32 <rwhitby> if there is a single way possible to install an app with a post-install script, which does not involve Preware, then there is no censorship. Oct 29 01:39:34 <dBsooner> if it's there, deny install. Oct 29 01:39:57 <Stugots> rwhitby: i didnt follow you there Oct 29 01:40:03 <egaudet> dBsooner, how can it deny install Oct 29 01:40:08 <egaudet> the patch has already been applied Oct 29 01:40:20 <dBsooner> no it hasn't. Oct 29 01:40:22 <egaudet> so we'd have to change the generic postinst first to call _extra first rather than last like it currently does Oct 29 01:40:35 <dBsooner> yes Oct 29 01:40:36 <rwhitby> Stugots: there is no basic human right which says that Preware must allow any application from any author with any security profile to be published. Oct 29 01:40:44 <dBsooner> wait Oct 29 01:41:25 <egaudet> Stugots, I can't access any memory region I want directly from userspace on linux... is that censorship? Oct 29 01:42:15 <rwhitby> Stugots: PYM has download links, which anyone can use to install an app which has not been reviewed by someone in the chain of trust, using a tool other than Preware (e.g. WebOS Quick Install), with them taking the responsibility for their actions, and the liability for any results Oct 29 01:43:16 <Stugots> rwhitby: using woqi is not different than using preware Oct 29 01:43:23 <Stugots> they still have to manually choose to install something Oct 29 01:43:33 <Stugots> well preware does it make it 1 step easier Oct 29 01:43:50 <rwhitby> Stugots: exactly, and we're responsible for preware, not wosqi. Oct 29 01:44:51 <Stugots> preware is a installer, it has nothing to do with the content on feeds Oct 29 01:45:19 <rwhitby> it does if it provides those feeds by default Oct 29 01:45:49 <rwhitby> and provides the means (which Palm does not provide) for malware to be transmitted and installed via those feeds ... Oct 29 01:46:18 <Stugots> then we could block all palm.com apps on precentral Oct 29 01:46:30 <Stugots> cause they have the potential to be malware Oct 29 01:46:38 <rwhitby> Stugots: how? Oct 29 01:47:54 <Stugots> they have access to e-mails and pms and other potentially confidential information Oct 29 01:48:00 <rwhitby> since you can install a palm.com app via palm-install or the official Palm APIs, that's Palm's responsibility, not ours. Oct 29 01:48:16 <Stugots> its ours if we all them to be installed via preware Oct 29 01:48:18 <Stugots> using your logic Oct 29 01:48:35 <rwhitby> sorry, but you've not used logic rules there again Oct 29 01:48:46 <rwhitby> a->b does not mean b->a Oct 29 01:50:37 <rwhitby> The responsibility of webos-internals is to make sure we don't decrease the level of security in an unacceptable way below the level that Palm provides. Oct 29 01:50:38 <Stugots> you are saying that we wouldnt allow web installs (which might be malicious) cause we cant block them (with the existing setup) but you blindly accept all com.palm apps from precentral (which might be malicious) Oct 29 01:51:04 <rwhitby> exactly. Oct 29 01:51:23 <rwhitby> for three reasons Oct 29 01:51:36 <Stugots> if we allow potentially risky packages from source A we should allow them from everywhere Oct 29 01:51:55 <rwhitby> 1) It's Palm's problem if a com.palm.* app installed via Palm APIs can do damage Oct 29 01:52:06 <rwhitby> 2) PreCentral can pull a rogue app Oct 29 01:52:13 <rwhitby> 3) PreCentral apps have many eyes Oct 29 01:52:30 <rwhitby> a random web link app does not match any of those Oct 29 01:52:32 <Stugots> we can easily block a package id in the serivcce Oct 29 01:52:41 <Stugots> which is no different that it getting pulled from a feed Oct 29 01:53:02 <Stugots> we can read a blackslist file Oct 29 01:53:09 <Stugots> before allowing an install Oct 29 01:53:36 <rwhitby> blacklists never work, the names just change faster than you can blacklist Oct 29 01:56:32 <Stugots> rwhitby: might as well remove pym now then Oct 29 01:57:03 <rwhitby> Stugots: why? the risk there is minimal at the moment, since you're the only one creating services Oct 29 01:58:26 <Stugots> but im not pre filtering anything Oct 29 01:58:31 <Stugots> nor will I Oct 29 01:59:10 <rwhitby> but if you don't feel that you can manage the risk, and the number of submitters grows to the point where you don't see and know about every submission, then perhaps we need to at least disable it by default. Oct 29 02:00:39 <rwhitby> Stugots: I believe that you know exactly every line of code that is currently on pym Oct 29 02:01:11 <rwhitby> And I doubt that you in particular would let anything on there without knowing exactly what it is too Oct 29 02:01:39 <rwhitby> (no matter how much you protest that you will let anything through on idealogical grounds) Oct 29 02:03:48 <rwhitby> I have the same belief about the canuck-software feed. Oct 29 02:06:39 * rwhitby bbl (lunch) Oct 29 02:24:28 <egaudet> oil, rwhitby, how confident are we in dependency support? Oct 29 02:25:13 <egaudet> if A depends on B, and B gets installed first and postinst runs. Now if A's postinst fails, does B's prerm run? Oct 29 02:27:41 <JayCanuck> woot, finally back to the world of the internets! Oct 29 02:27:42 <egaudet> do cross dependencies work? A and B depend on each other so they can never be installed separately? Oct 29 02:27:48 <egaudet> welcome back! Oct 29 02:28:40 <JayCanuck> wanna hear one of the many emails I received over the last fews days while I was gone, lol Oct 29 02:28:45 <JayCanuck> "how do you watch porn movies with palm pre when i go to the porn site on my phone it s ayn need flash drive how do i get that in my phone" Oct 29 02:29:26 <rwhitby> egaudet: B stays in place if A fails Oct 29 02:29:52 <dBsooner> rwhitby: can you make A tell B to remove if A fails? Oct 29 02:30:10 <rwhitby> dBsooner: no Oct 29 02:30:23 <dBsooner> that doesn't help Oct 29 02:30:47 <rwhitby> dBsooner: what if C also depends on B - why should B be removed just cause A fails? Oct 29 02:31:03 <dBsooner> We basically just want this for postisnt_extra replacement Oct 29 02:31:09 <dBsooner> package A is the patch Oct 29 02:31:18 <dBsooner> package B is the replacements.. like image replacement Oct 29 02:31:41 <rwhitby> nope, can't use dependencies for that Oct 29 02:31:45 * rwhitby bbl Oct 29 02:31:48 <dBsooner> Package A complete success, then package B runs, if it fails, remove A. Oct 29 02:31:50 <dBsooner> doh Oct 29 02:59:35 <egaudet> What's the best way to generically handle image replacements along with patches in one ipkg **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 29 02:59:57 2009