**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 03 02:59:57 2009 Nov 03 03:20:10 So much going on Nov 03 03:20:27 ? Nov 03 03:20:35 sarcasm Nov 03 03:20:55 Oh. I actually have a lot going on Nov 03 03:28:44 can someone help me please i am having trouble with the terminal application and the rm -f commands with it saying read only Nov 03 03:30:24 boboysdadda, remount read/write Nov 03 03:30:28 when i do the !/bin/sh it says not found Nov 03 03:31:03 i really suck at linux sorry but i'm going to need a bit more explination Nov 03 03:31:55 boboysdadda, oh.. well before i tell you this... why are you trying to rm -f things? Forceful removes are a bad thing as root if you are not familiar with linux Nov 03 03:32:33 when i use preware to install mvapp it tells me to do a rm -f command and a ln -s command after Nov 03 03:35:18 boboysdadda, ok.. well again.. not sure what you're doing.. but the command is "mount -o remount,rw /" Nov 03 03:35:25 that will make your filesystem writable Nov 03 03:35:37 put it back after with "mount -o remount,ro /" Nov 03 03:36:28 i'm just trying to follow the developers directions Nov 03 03:36:35 thankyou for the help Nov 03 03:36:57 np :> just trying to give you proper caution Nov 03 03:38:45 kk thanx. can you recomend any must have apps? Nov 03 03:39:18 boboysdadda, no, but 4x4 patch is must have Nov 03 03:39:38 i saw multiples of that is there different versions? Nov 03 03:40:16 is there a screen keyboard app? Nov 03 03:41:19 virtual keyboard patch Nov 03 03:41:29 kk thanx Nov 03 03:41:40 preware patches -> mojo -> virtual keyboard Nov 03 03:41:52 boboysdadda, try the original one first :D you can always remove it Nov 03 03:42:44 wow u guys are way better than most help irc's i go to Nov 03 03:43:50 boboysdadda, nah, we're usually pretty bad Nov 03 03:44:18 yea lol Nov 03 03:45:03 :( Nov 03 03:45:11 patches require reboot right? Nov 03 03:45:23 boboysdadda, they will generally tell you, but don't reboot your phone, just reboot luna Nov 03 03:45:59 boboysdadda, you can use the LunaSysMgr (or something like that) app to do it, or just "pkill Luna" in terminal app Nov 03 03:45:59 i need to install luna? Nov 03 03:46:00 luna restart Nov 03 03:46:01 boboysdadda: patches don't need reboot. just restart luna Nov 03 03:46:10 boboysdadda: install "Luna Manager" Nov 03 03:46:18 Yes, do what they say, ignore me :> Nov 03 03:46:25 * dBsooner is really sad. Nov 03 03:46:30 dBsooner, what's wrong mate? Nov 03 03:46:35 My bro leaves in less than 12 hours for Afghanistan. Nov 03 03:46:35 ok getting luna now Nov 03 03:46:41 dBsooner, aw :/ Nov 03 03:46:50 Yeah, trying not to get sad. Nov 03 03:46:55 boboysdadda, no no... not getting luna, getting Luna Manager. Luna is the GUI of your phone :) Nov 03 03:46:57 or should I say cry. Nov 03 03:47:08 Afg is ruff. did that one already Nov 03 03:47:12 dBsooner, sorry mate... can't say i know how you feel :/ Nov 03 03:47:13 its slowly getting better Nov 03 03:47:39 boboysdadda: luckily is the dead of winter and it will be a down time Nov 03 03:47:59 but he is going to Southeast afghanistan, to the mountains, border with with Paksistan. Nov 03 03:48:02 dBsooner: how long is he over there for Nov 03 03:48:06 7 months Nov 03 03:48:15 thats not too bad we did a year Nov 03 03:48:22 Forward insurgent sweeps. Nov 03 03:48:28 Damn marine corp. Nov 03 03:50:06 ok so after luna manager anything else thats a must have installed? Nov 03 03:50:25 "Protect Corporal Lamb" Nov 03 03:50:27 :( Nov 03 03:57:21 PuffTheMagic, ping? Nov 03 03:57:45 I need someone who is used to hearing my stupid embarrassing questions and is too used to them to laugh at me. Nov 03 03:59:12 i like stupid questions but i'm still a n00b to this Nov 03 03:59:33 lol, unfortunately it's more of a linux development question than a direct webos thing :) Nov 03 04:00:22 just ask... Nov 03 04:00:26 i know some linux gurus i can forward your question Nov 03 04:00:51 lol now i've backed myself in a corner Nov 03 04:02:07 egaudet, i've cross-compiled a utility on a host... but i have no idea how to get it to install on the target... do I need to somehow map the install directories and mv them over 1 by 1? Nov 03 04:02:57 I mean, I guess I can move the /usr/bin/foo, run it, and move files 1 by 1 it tells me it didn't find, lol Nov 03 04:03:06 what else would it need? Nov 03 04:03:11 it just seems like there is a very simple answer to this i'm missing Nov 03 04:03:11 dynamic libraries Nov 03 04:03:22 pre uses ld i suppose right? Nov 03 04:03:28 I could copy the libraries and run ldconfig? Nov 03 04:04:53 if your binary is statically linked you don't need the libraries I don't think. But however the utility was supposed to install before it just moves those files into place that's all install does really (cp and set permission) Nov 03 04:05:34 so basically yea copy the binary and any dynamic libraries you need Nov 03 04:05:35 Yes, but whatever install did.. i uh.. don't know.. really... i guess i should go look at the install file :D Nov 03 04:05:41 kk, thank you Nov 03 04:07:20 alright good luck , I'm going to bed, might catch me on wirc :P Nov 03 04:07:25 haha, Nov 03 04:07:38 * zsoc imagines waking up... checking his Pre for /queries, going back to sleep Nov 03 04:09:11 oh god, there's so many libraries Nov 03 04:11:55 I wonder if tonytony got his APN stuff fixed Nov 03 04:11:57 hmm Nov 03 04:13:22 zsoc: one thing you coulddo if you cross compiled something somewhere would be just to copy the compiled directory and run make install there. of course you'd need optware make Nov 03 04:14:22 zsoc: so the project is giong well then? ;) Nov 03 04:14:38 oil: have you guys thought about a mode for wirc where it runs headless like messenger and throws cards up when you get /msg'd? Nov 03 04:15:27 that way if you wanted to you could be logged in 24x7 and people could always get a hold of you Nov 03 04:16:39 destinal, i considered it, thank you :) Nov 03 04:16:45 freakout, yes, thanks to a nudge from ice Nov 03 04:16:56 project? Nov 03 04:17:09 video stuff? Nov 03 04:17:50 destinal, maybe ;) Nov 03 04:17:52 who wants to know? Nov 03 04:18:05 heh, I'll leave you be and let it be a surprise :P Nov 03 04:20:17 zsoc: pong Nov 03 04:20:21 im ready to laugh now Nov 03 04:22:33 no suprises, been working on media framework for what seems like ever now Nov 03 04:22:54 PuffTheMagic, I asked it in the channel :P Nov 03 04:30:42 PuffTheMagic, oh, you still don't get queries do you Nov 03 04:30:57 zsoc: i get them Nov 03 04:31:04 but im in like 1000 channels Nov 03 04:31:08 and queries show up at the bottom Nov 03 04:31:11 so i have to scrool Nov 03 04:31:13 scroll Nov 03 04:31:17 and i dont always see them Nov 03 04:31:25 ping me in channel and say to check OM Nov 03 04:31:26 PM Nov 03 04:31:36 lol you do too many things puff ;) Nov 03 04:32:44 yo all Nov 03 04:34:22 any update on 1.3 resolving app limit issues? Nov 03 04:35:02 original nick Nov 03 04:46:37 PuffTheMagic, check pm :P Nov 03 05:01:02 PuffTheMagic, pm again :) Nov 03 05:03:17 <_droO> is there a way to clear the contents of a div with js?? (on event) Nov 03 05:04:38 <_droO> nm Nov 03 05:30:16 FREAKOUT HAS PRE Nov 03 05:30:18 FREAKOUT HAS PRE Nov 03 05:30:20 FREAKOUT HAS PRE Nov 03 05:30:30 * freakout wonders if he mentioned that he has a Pre Nov 03 05:31:16 freakout, cool :) enjoy it Nov 03 05:31:21 awesome Nov 03 05:31:27 freakout: YAYAYAYAYAY!!! Nov 03 05:31:34 * oil just noticed a weird springey sound when he opens the slider Nov 03 05:31:40 * oil is going to the sprint store tomorrow Nov 03 05:31:48 * ice-11_away yells "Congrats!" from afar Nov 03 05:32:07 now you get to see how much slower the pre is from the emu Nov 03 05:32:08 HAHAHA Nov 03 05:32:15 :) Nov 03 05:32:21 lol Nov 03 05:32:26 what a shock Nov 03 05:32:32 the tracking page says it's still in-flight Nov 03 05:32:46 and then i come home and it's there on my chair Nov 03 05:33:18 now to charge the bastard up :) Nov 03 05:33:35 and then.... hack the bejesus out of it! Nov 03 05:33:59 lol Nov 03 05:34:15 okay, problem 1 Nov 03 05:34:34 * freakout forgot to buy a german-to-Oz AC adapter... Nov 03 05:34:40 haha Nov 03 05:34:50 well, that settles it Nov 03 05:34:56 i'm taking tomorrow off work to buy one. Nov 03 05:35:02 freakout, you use 240 there? Nov 03 05:35:07 yup Nov 03 05:35:24 then atleast you can skip the voltage converter :) Nov 03 05:35:53 hehe Nov 03 05:35:58 what plug do you use in oz anyway? not the europeon two round thingies? Nov 03 05:36:08 i know in NZ they use that weird angled spade Nov 03 05:36:10 nope Nov 03 05:36:14 yeah, we're the same Nov 03 05:36:17 ah i see Nov 03 05:36:27 so it's north america, just angled ;) Nov 03 05:36:35 45 degrees ftw Nov 03 05:36:42 zsoc: http://www.washington.edu/computing/global/plug_i.jpg Nov 03 05:37:00 looks like a scream mask Nov 03 05:37:37 jesus christ that takes awhile to boot.... Nov 03 05:38:03 i know i told rwhitby i'd try to activate via wifi.... Nov 03 05:38:03 freakout, don't restart it ever ;) Nov 03 05:38:10 but i am an impatient. In goes my SIM!! Nov 03 05:38:31 deweet! Nov 03 05:39:53 geist: does that mean AWESOME?? :) Nov 03 05:40:23 geist, go find the guys who are working on the video framework, and tell them native ffmpeg works 724876237 times better than gstreamer. Nov 03 05:40:24 now that I actually got my grown man cry fest over with Nov 03 05:40:29 What be goin on? Nov 03 05:42:43 so, my audio jack on my pre has crapped out. it only sounds ok in one position out of many. in other positions i either dont hear anything, hear only static, or a combination of theall these. do you think i could get them to replace it for me? Nov 03 05:43:04 sprint, that is/palm Nov 03 05:43:34 if it's the same way with a different audio cable, then yeah probably Nov 03 05:44:16 k, will try. i dont think its tyhe headphones cuz htey are brand new and sound wonderfully with my mp3 player Nov 03 05:45:18 touchstone won't work on USB power will it? Nov 03 05:45:36 freakout, depends on how much current it provides Nov 03 05:45:55 it's supposed to be 1amp... so you're pushing it with the 500ma of most usb hubs Nov 03 05:45:59 um... they say it wont. but you could probably hack something together, if you really want to Nov 03 05:46:19 you could connect 2 usb ports in .. er.. par..alell... Nov 03 05:46:36 rwhitby, greg_roll, lingfish: OPTUS confirmed working on 3G Nov 03 05:46:38 like with one of those external dvdrom/selfpoweredharddrives cords Nov 03 05:47:02 freakout: excellent! one down :) Nov 03 05:52:15 Hey guys... I have something to say Nov 03 05:53:09 Despite my wife being insanely mad at me about the hour of day here Nov 03 05:53:30 I have successfully taken a video with my pre, and watched said video back on my pre, with no outside interaction. Nov 03 05:54:17 cool Nov 03 05:54:47 gkatsev, thanks :D Nov 03 05:55:06 freakout, you'd be excited if you weren't too busy playing with your toy ;) go write a report or something :P Nov 03 05:55:34 wouldve been useful for me at the amanda palmer concert tonight Nov 03 05:56:46 gkatsev, HOLY CRAP I HATE YOU Nov 03 05:56:59 haha Nov 03 05:57:04 gkatsev, they are one of Ben Fold's favourite bands, and are therefore one of my favourite bands. Nov 03 05:57:14 well, she lives in cambridge and the concert was at my college (northeastern) Nov 03 05:57:22 ben folds is awesome as well Nov 03 05:57:41 apparently she just came back today from singapore at 5pm, the show was at 9pm Nov 03 05:57:44 lol Nov 03 05:57:45 ok, well on that note, i'm going to bed. i'm content now. 1 milestone is enough for 1 night Nov 03 05:57:53 gkatsev, yeah, they are crazy like that :> Nov 03 05:57:58 night, gl Nov 03 05:58:45 no, you know what Nov 03 05:58:52 there Nov 03 05:58:57 haha Nov 03 05:59:03 take that subspace Nov 03 06:09:06 lol Nov 03 06:09:10 first QWERTZ fail Nov 03 06:09:26 zsoc, wait, you did something cool? Nov 03 06:09:39 zsoc that's AWESOME Nov 03 06:09:54 Where's the app? :p Nov 03 06:43:10 Anyone have any clue why the standalone preware .jar installer just exits as soon as it starts on my OS X? Nov 03 06:47:40 Is there any reason to avoid creating a patch that creates a file in /media/internal ? Nov 03 06:51:43 yay! people logging in. Anybody know a good reason to not allow a patch to create a file in /media/internal/ ? Nov 03 07:49:35 so what are your thoughts on the actual device freakout? Nov 03 07:57:25 oil_pre: heh, i just wrote that up at PIC Nov 03 07:57:34 copy-and-paste in 3...2...1... Nov 03 07:57:37 * oil_pre reads it Nov 03 07:57:52 it feels GREAT in the hand. Nov 03 07:57:53 *The thin keyboard feels weird. Not bad, just going to take some adjustment. I love that commas are now a dedicated key rather than an option+ key (although I only just realised that when I looked at the typo in my post above, heh.) QWERTZ has tripped me up already, but I'm getting used to it quickly. May not even bother to hack the keyboard at this rate. Nov 03 07:57:53 *The screen looks amazing... Nov 03 07:57:53 *...but the touch calibration is a bit dodgy. I seem to keep missing targets, but will improve with practice I'm sure. Nov 03 07:57:57 * The speaker is way too damn quiet compared to the Centro. Nov 03 07:57:59 * Phone call quality sounds just like the Centro, as in "better than adequate, not quite amazing." Nov 03 07:58:02 * Phone signal strength seems weaker - I always got full bars on Centro but am only getting half-strength on the Pre. Of course, the Centro was operating on the 2G network, not the 3G, so I suppose my 3G signal might just be weaker. Nov 03 07:58:05 * Speaking of 3G, my Optus SIM card works perfectly. No compatibility problems, thank the FSM. MMS, Internet and activation all worked without a hitch. Nov 03 07:58:08 * LAG. There is definite lag when scrolling in some apps, and in sometimes when responding to touch. Palm really needs to sort out that GPU pronto. Nov 03 07:58:11 * The camera is a revelation! Shots come out looking *way* better than on the Centro. Nov 03 07:58:13 * Universal Search kicks ass. Nov 03 07:58:15 * The USB door is the cheapest, flimsiest-feeling piece of crap I've ever seen. I can just tell I'm gonna wind up breaking the damn thing off. Nov 03 07:58:20 * Flipping and flicking cards is just plain fun. Nov 03 07:58:20 * In keeping with the running theme of every Palm device I've ever owned, the headphone jack seems flaky right outta the box. Crackles or only plays the left channel unless it's in exactly right. I hope to God I don't have a repeat of the Treo 680 situation, where it died two weeks after I started using it.... Nov 03 07:58:47 That's it for now... I have this funny feeling I'll be calling in sick to work tomorrow so I can take the time to hack this thing to buggery and back. First step: Doctoring to webOS 1.2.. Nov 03 07:58:47 ( oh man, rwhitby is gonna hate me ) Nov 03 07:59:02 bbl. i'm goin' climbin... and showing this off to my trend-following iPhone-buying sheep friends... Nov 03 08:09:31 hello, I'm trying to run webos doctor (from debian) but it doesn't seem to start, just writes stuff up to: Nov 3, 2009 9:04:12 AM com.palm.nova.installer.recoverytool.CardController Nov 03 08:09:31 INFO: +++++CardController Nov 03 08:09:31 Nov 03 08:09:38 and sits there doing nothing. Nov 03 08:09:57 waiting on futex(0xb72c0bd8, FUTEX_WAIT, 15218, NULL Nov 03 08:09:57 Nov 03 08:10:02 any idea ? Nov 03 08:34:04 errrrr Nov 03 08:34:16 wtf Tim! Nov 03 08:41:02 Can someone that has an inductive charger test something for me? Nov 03 08:46:23 I am so jealous :( Nov 03 08:48:33 I needed a Pre SO badly today... was trying to find out who ran last in the Melbourne Cup and both my crappy N95 and evil Samsumg with Windows Crapbile just couldn't cut it Nov 03 08:48:41 crappy web browsers with shit rendering... Nov 03 08:53:02 morning Nov 03 08:53:53 Marajin: so was it really Preware that broke your Pre, or something else? Nov 03 09:08:09 * rwhitby makes the meta-doctor error message even more explicit for sand0 Nov 03 09:14:23 boboysdadda: if you were installing MvApp with Preware, you shouldn't need any rm or ln commands afterwards - where does it say that? Nov 03 09:14:46 freakout: congrats on the Pre Nov 03 09:16:11 Roy-Pre101: re preware installer on macosx - you need java 1.6, just like webos quick install Nov 03 09:17:34 freakout: Voda confirmed yet? Nov 03 09:18:07 xaiki`: never tried the doctor from Linux. I run it on macosx Nov 03 09:19:00 rwhitby: heya.... he's confirmed Octopus so far Nov 03 09:19:20 * rwhitby completes backlog reading, after travelling to Melbourne today, but not for the Cup. Nov 03 09:19:35 Ah you're in the awesome town? :) Nov 03 09:21:02 ;) Nov 03 09:21:43 lingfish: nope, back in ADL Nov 03 09:22:49 Day trip? Nov 03 09:23:06 yep Nov 03 09:23:18 * rwhitby bbl Nov 03 09:24:38 k Nov 03 10:29:37 re Nov 03 10:29:49 wtf.... freakout is already ready to sell his Pre, simply because it won't do Telstra's 3G?!?!? Nov 03 10:30:05 I'd be changing carrier, f that! Not to mention Telstra suck Nov 03 10:30:11 lingfish: I thought that was thewhitetower ... Nov 03 10:30:54 gah... am I confusing aliases.. Nov 03 10:31:47 <_droO> anybody good with ajax post requests? :/ i think i need to modify the http header can i do that? Nov 03 10:32:00 ok, time to start spelunking in the first-use app to see that the activation patch really does, and whether http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2013555 is a valid theory ... Nov 03 10:32:16 _droO: #webos would be the best channel to ask that in ... Nov 03 10:40:15 rwhitby: yeah, actually... that sounds plausable... Nov 03 10:41:53 ... remotely Nov 03 10:43:32 firstapp has lots of PalmSystem.version.match("Webkit3.1/v8; desktop") in it. Seems like a weird way to check if you're on the emulator or not ... Nov 03 10:44:38 heh Nov 03 10:47:08 I really wish there was a way to single-step debug javascript on the Pre, like you can with GDB and C code ... Nov 03 10:54:23 * rwhitby creates http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/FirstUse_Application_Functionality Nov 03 11:11:51 Can someone with a touchstone test something for me? Nov 03 11:28:05 Freakout: hows the Pre? Nov 03 11:35:39 whats god. Nov 03 11:37:05 uh... good+ Nov 03 11:37:33 lingfish: there is code in there to check roaming, and it should ask you if you want to continue setup while roaming Nov 03 11:52:38 rwhitby.... Nov 03 11:52:40 rwhitby... Nov 03 11:52:44 rwhitby... Nov 03 11:52:51 Vodafone works like a charm. :) Nov 03 11:53:03 greg_roll: It's pretty cool Nov 03 11:53:12 rwhitby: my GPS works great, no problems. Nov 03 11:53:22 freakout: excellent Nov 03 11:53:50 freakout: do the carrier settings have GPS assistance server data in them? Nov 03 11:54:18 rwhitby: indeed they do (i think). i recall reading a thread on precentral about it Nov 03 11:54:21 actually, i'm looking now Nov 03 11:54:36 now that i think about it, i didn't test voda GPS though. Optus works fine Nov 03 11:54:48 I was watching Google Maps track me down the road as i drove to climbing tonight Nov 03 11:54:59 freakout: I'm wondering if it's the case that GPS assistance only works over the cellular connection (i.e. carrier blocks access other than via their network) Nov 03 11:56:01 (since the assistance data doesn't make sense if you're not associated with a tower location, that would probably be the case) Nov 03 11:56:32 Sounds about right. But wouldn't that make all those people who report making that stand-alone hack work properly... horribly wrong? Nov 03 11:56:40 freakout: what's the ouput of: Nov 03 11:56:42 luna-send -i palm://com.palm.telephony/isTelephonyReady '{"subscribe":true}' Nov 03 11:56:50 lol Nov 03 11:56:58 haven't installed any hacks yet at all Nov 03 11:57:16 I had an hour to fiddle with it when i got home from work, and then i was straight off to climbing Nov 03 11:57:18 just got home now Nov 03 11:57:24 so, you don't need hacks to run command lines on the Pre Nov 03 11:57:29 ohhh Nov 03 11:57:31 right right right Nov 03 11:57:37 gimme a sec to fire up a terminal Nov 03 11:57:46 or novaterm ... Nov 03 11:59:26 just putting it in dev mode... reboot takes *forever*. People weren't exaggerating were they Nov 03 12:00:56 freakout: meta-doctor should have made it dev mode by default ... Nov 03 12:01:05 * freakout looks sheepish Nov 03 12:01:11 .......i didn't meta-doctor it yet. Nov 03 12:01:20 forgive me, rwhitby, for i have sinned Nov 03 12:01:25 I was too impatient to play. Nov 03 12:01:52 so we shall never know Nov 03 12:02:03 * freakout looks sheepisher Nov 03 12:02:10 until you get yours :p Nov 03 12:02:55 meh Nov 03 12:03:19 freakout: mine has had a german sim in it and made a phone call Nov 03 12:03:29 oh. Nov 03 12:03:41 we shall never know if you can wifi profile out of the box without a working sim Nov 03 12:04:20 I'm sorry, I really am. Nov 03 12:04:50 I didn't have the MD ready. Came home from work and found the package sitting on my chair. knew I had to go out shortly thereafter and I wanted to play straight away Nov 03 12:04:56 I was caught up in the heat of the moment... Nov 03 12:05:10 (The DHL tracking page says it hasn't even reached Oz yet) Nov 03 12:05:20 so in went the SIM... Nov 03 12:08:44 ugh, novaterm gives me a failed to connect msg Nov 03 12:08:56 so, luna-send -i palm://com.palm.telephony/isTelephonyReady '{"subscribe":true}' ? Nov 03 12:09:15 Yep, hang on. Novaterm says "failed to connect to novacomd" Nov 03 12:09:24 what host OS ? Nov 03 12:09:31 vista. POS Nov 03 12:09:47 just trying the tty command Nov 03 12:10:55 unable to find device. sigh Nov 03 12:17:57 rwhitby, i'm buggered Nov 03 12:18:10 I'm taking the day off work on Thursday to play with this properly Nov 03 12:18:18 ok Nov 03 12:18:30 Failing that, I will liase with you tomorrow night Nov 03 12:18:48 sorry! Nov 03 12:18:50 night Nov 03 12:33:38 * rwhitby bbt Nov 03 13:00:56 hmmm. Nov 03 13:28:24 good mornin Nov 03 13:43:49 rwhitby: Thank you. Somehow I glossed over that. I even checked my Java version and said '1.5', looks good! Nov 03 13:45:07 Hmm, now the question is 'how to download 1.6... Nov 03 13:48:39 Apparently it's installed but not used Nov 03 13:52:46 That's more difficult than it should be. Nov 03 13:56:04 roy what os are you using? Nov 03 13:56:09 OS X Nov 03 13:57:40 hm, WebOS Quick Installer likes to throw exceptions. Nov 03 13:58:09 Try... Nov 03 13:58:15 "Once you’ve downloaded and installed the Java beta, there’s another not-terribly-obvious step you have to do. Go to /applications/utilities/java and run the Java Preferences app." Nov 03 13:58:20 minus the beta bit Nov 03 13:58:46 and select the version you'd like Nov 03 14:00:16 Just running it manually from terminal. Not sure what the downside would be to changing Nov 03 14:01:28 Interesting... Installing from webOS Quick Install also leaves the icon for the package manager. Nov 03 14:01:43 After you reboot the phone it goes away. Nov 03 14:01:49 ah Nov 03 14:03:34 Also interesting: Preware doesn't update the Install button if it installs prerequisites and you view the list of prerequisites. Nov 03 14:03:43 It still says 'Install' even thoug it's installed. Nov 03 14:03:54 *though Nov 03 15:28:54 so does the virtual keyboard Nov 03 15:28:57 in preware work for anyone Nov 03 15:28:58 ? Nov 03 15:30:58 It did last time I had it. Nov 03 15:31:06 i cant get it to install Nov 03 15:31:07 :( Nov 03 15:31:26 What happens when you try to install it? Nov 03 15:31:41 ill try again Nov 03 15:31:43 an post the error Nov 03 15:31:48 i think its just some like post install error Nov 03 15:31:50 or something though Nov 03 15:34:04 You might try running the webOS Quick Repair on your phone to restore any modified files. Nov 03 15:34:10 yea Nov 03 15:34:12 i may have to Nov 03 15:34:20 i dont really wanna do that though Nov 03 15:34:26 everything else is working dandy Nov 03 15:34:49 Failed ErrorGenericMethodException Nov 03 15:37:54 maybe i have an obsolete version Nov 03 15:37:55 installed somewhere Nov 03 15:37:57 * sportman looks Nov 03 15:39:59 fixed it! Nov 03 15:40:00 yayyyy Nov 03 15:40:22 How'd you fix it? Nov 03 15:40:38 found out there was an obsolete version installed Nov 03 15:40:41 didnt realize it Nov 03 15:40:58 cause i didnt see it in the patch list of installed patches Nov 03 15:41:03 it was in the list of installed linux apps... Nov 03 15:41:04 thats why Nov 03 15:41:05 :/ Nov 03 15:45:58 sportman you had "OBSOLETE Virtual Keyboard" installed? Nov 03 15:49:25 has anyone see lots of SIGBUS errors in their web browser? Nov 03 15:49:35 everytime i browse to a web page my phone reboots Nov 03 15:49:50 and there is a new minicore with sigbus error in /var/minicores Nov 03 15:50:53 u fu**ed something up Nov 03 15:51:23 heh Nov 03 15:51:24 yeah Nov 03 15:51:41 sigbus is weird... i don't think i have ever seen that signal in all of my years of programming Nov 03 15:53:44 sportman ? Nov 03 15:56:23 I think there may be something weird in my browser history, is there a way to clear that out? maybe use sqllite? Nov 03 16:57:07 ~seen dbsooner Nov 03 16:57:09 dbsooner was last seen on IRC in channel #webos-internals, 11h 16m 39s ago, saying: 'What be goin on?'. Nov 03 16:57:47 so Nov 03 16:57:58 a patch was modified by dbsooner Nov 03 16:58:02 which one Nov 03 16:58:13 a user emailed me and asked why he couldn't remove it Nov 03 16:58:46 he changed the battery percent patch so it could work with the battery icon patches Nov 03 16:59:02 changing a patch doesn't change removal/install Nov 03 16:59:46 the removal is done based on the patch you installed, he can't remove because he changed the files that the patch touched in a bad way. i.e. manually or via old theme or something Nov 03 17:00:36 yeah I was thinking the same Nov 03 17:01:03 I was going to see if he could replace the bar-assistant file Nov 03 17:01:11 no Nov 03 17:01:20 EPR Nov 03 17:01:28 or remove whatever change he did (manual, theme etc...) Nov 03 17:01:57 repairing the file won't get rid of the ipkg data that says it's installed Nov 03 17:03:51 got it Nov 03 18:19:27 So is FriendsFlowBeta (avail in Preware) basically nothing? You have to have the Pay app from the app catalog now? Nov 03 18:20:37 dBsooner-work: just use lite.facebook.com, it works on the pre browser, unlike x./touch./m.facebook.com Nov 03 18:22:28 gkatsev: "Unable To Load Page: http://lite.facebook.com/ Error loading page. [2047]" Nov 03 18:22:43 dBsooner-work: what? works for me Nov 03 18:22:45 x.facebook.com DOES work in the bworser Nov 03 18:22:50 i don't know what you're talking about Nov 03 18:22:54 yokken: it does work, its just crap Nov 03 18:22:57 not really Nov 03 18:23:10 i just want a dang GOOD program Nov 03 18:23:19 one you can actually comment, reply, status, etc Nov 03 18:23:23 idk, it transfers me to touch. which when i go to an event page i cant read the info Nov 03 18:23:35 dBsooner-work: pre + mytether + ipod touch Nov 03 18:23:52 yokken: haha, nice Nov 03 18:23:58 best of both worls Nov 03 18:24:03 s/worls/worlds/ Nov 03 18:24:03 gkatsev meant: best of both worlds Nov 03 18:24:18 or save your battery life and money and just DEAL WITH IT Nov 03 18:26:45 yokken, gkatsev: neither of those answered my original question. ;) Nov 03 18:27:01 lol Nov 03 18:27:05 don't use friendsflow Nov 03 18:27:06 lol Nov 03 18:27:08 that's the answer Nov 03 18:27:37 is there an NDA associated with those who have 1.3 update? Nov 03 18:28:23 xorg: probably Nov 03 18:28:39 I don't think so really. Nov 03 18:28:47 rwhitby talks about it with us Nov 03 18:28:48 and he has it Nov 03 18:29:01 I am still waiting on my darn reply from chuq.. I'm about to call him. Nov 03 18:29:03 ah, hm... Nov 03 18:29:30 hehe, me2 Nov 03 18:29:47 xorg: no really. Nov 03 18:29:50 I got's his # Nov 03 18:29:58 Just don't want to bother him with silly stuff. Nov 03 18:30:31 any rundown on the key updates? Nov 03 18:31:47 not that I am aware of Nov 03 18:48:37 well given that there appears to be no NDA yet no one is talking about it, maybe there's not much to 1.3.1... maybe just a Pixi/additional carrier release and a few minor fixes? Nov 03 18:49:49 xorg: i hear 2.0 allows you to fly Nov 03 18:50:14 i'd rather hover than fly, but that's just me Nov 03 18:50:55 well, if you can fly, you most likely can hover as well, no? Nov 03 18:51:47 got me on that one :) Nov 03 19:05:21 IDEA: with the new webos version specific patch feeds, logic can be put into AutoPatch to make patching fully compatible and easily updateable with OTA updates! Nov 03 19:05:40 at least OTA updates from one version to a NEWER version (not 1.2.1 to 1.2.1 update bug) Nov 03 19:05:50 dBsooner-work, rwhitby, ping Nov 03 19:06:09 yep Nov 03 19:06:42 what do you say about having all patches be in all webos version patch feeds Nov 03 19:07:01 the ones that don't work for that webos version will be obsolete/dummy packages Nov 03 19:07:11 I think that could work Nov 03 19:07:17 which would remove them Nov 03 19:07:28 if a user is on a newer version that doesn't ahve it Nov 03 19:07:41 right basically Nov 03 19:08:03 and then after an OTA a user can run "update all" and valid patches will be udpated, while not-yet ported or invalid ones removed Nov 03 19:09:10 brilliant Nov 03 19:09:16 but have it display the ones that will be removed Nov 03 19:09:23 need to put logic into APT prerm to check for what version of webos is installed vs. what version of the patch is installed so that an ipkg remove can be done after an update without failing the patch -R --dry-run Nov 03 19:09:52 no it can't display the ones that will be removed Nov 03 19:10:00 preware can't get that specific Nov 03 19:10:24 sure it can Nov 03 19:10:25 ;) Nov 03 19:10:28 we just make oil work Nov 03 19:10:53 no Nov 03 19:10:59 obviously it CAN but it WONT Nov 03 19:11:04 because that's not what Preware is Nov 03 19:11:14 it SHOULD not do that Nov 03 19:11:45 that would require some OBSOLETE meta data stuff Nov 03 19:12:11 which might be the way we want to go but that's another discussion Nov 03 19:13:11 rwhitby: I used it from a Windows box @ work. Nov 03 20:53:20 morning Nov 03 20:54:38 Roy-Pre101: thanks for the bug report on not updating the state of installed dependencies Nov 03 20:55:01 Roy-Pre101: can you please add that to the Known bugs section of the Preware doco wiki page? Nov 03 21:00:22 rwhitby: morning leader Nov 03 21:01:10 rwhitby: I know my email to youis a little short on info, but Dieter will fill you in with his reply I am sure. We talked for about 20 mins a couple hours ago. Nov 03 21:03:49 about what? Nov 03 21:05:05 You guys. Ales ok. I fix all 3 networks I needed Nov 03 21:08:59 well looks like 1.2.1 is working well on my pre and no more package manager service fubars Nov 03 21:27:18 Rick_work: do i need to do something to make the plugin run? Nov 03 21:27:19 Marajin: what version was your Pre running when it had problems with Preware? Nov 03 21:28:01 rwhitby: 1.1.3 Nov 03 21:28:06 UK pre Nov 03 21:28:33 Preware was fine up till yesterday when I downloaded an update to the package manager service Nov 03 21:28:39 after that.. poof Nov 03 21:28:48 several apps just complained the package manager service was dead.. Nov 03 21:29:05 rebooting, uninstalling/reinstalling, prodding around in CLI... didn't help at all Nov 03 21:29:11 so in the end I doctor'd it to sprint 1.2.1 Nov 03 21:29:14 and now it's fine Nov 03 21:30:29 so far my only annoyance at all with 1.2.1 is that it insists on saying "English (United States)" in the language setting Nov 03 21:30:33 if you can call that an annoyance ;) Nov 03 21:31:17 rwhitby: I shall update the known problems section fo the wiki Nov 03 21:32:18 I would like to report that Preware works like a charm on my German 1.1.3 Pre Nov 03 21:32:31 As does the package manager, and a few patches that I've tried. Nov 03 21:33:08 freakout: did you install that latest update to the service yesterdayish? Nov 03 21:33:26 Mornin Nov 03 21:33:55 Marajin: i installed whatever the latest one is in the webos-internals feed. 0.9.6 i think Nov 03 21:34:01 just did it this morning. Nov 03 21:34:05 lingfish: howdy Nov 03 21:34:23 I hate you Tim :P Nov 03 21:34:29 hate h;ate HATEEEEEEEEE Nov 03 21:34:34 :D Nov 03 21:34:46 I need coffee *yawn* Nov 03 21:34:49 freakout: should be right then, .16 I believe Nov 03 21:34:59 freakout: No idea, may have been something other than the base version of WebOS :) Nov 03 21:40:33 now, daylight savings. how many minutes from now does the PalmCast start? Nov 03 21:40:53 what time EDT? Nov 03 21:40:59 8pm eastern Nov 03 21:41:07 3 hours 20 minutes Nov 03 21:41:16 rwhitby, catch my patch OTA update idea? Nov 03 21:41:34 or 200 minutes to answer your original query Nov 03 21:41:44 egaudet_work: yeah, scanned it, but it seemed you reverted thinking at the end? Nov 03 21:42:55 no the end stuff is about preware displaying which packages are going to be auto-removed vs. ones that are real packages in the feed Nov 03 21:43:09 lingfish: that's okay. i love everyone right now Nov 03 21:43:19 sugardave: thanks Nov 03 21:43:29 so one hour later relative to me now Nov 03 21:43:30 hahahah bastard :P Nov 03 21:43:51 I think we have the tools in place to begin hashing out a good update path, where EPR would never be 'required' and patches could remain installed and show as update avail after OTA Nov 03 21:44:11 egaudet_work: back after the commute - we can discuss later, but interesting idea. Nov 03 21:44:37 PuffTheMagic Nov 03 21:44:39 pm Nov 03 21:44:46 webOS-internals typo: If you want to enable any e-mail-based features in the wiki, follow it's instructions Nov 03 21:44:57 fix it Nov 03 21:44:57 should be "its" Nov 03 21:45:04 can I edit a special page? Nov 03 21:45:14 can you? Nov 03 21:45:18 ::shrug:: Nov 03 21:45:31 Don't see how Nov 03 21:46:25 All, a little news from me re Palm importing and warranty: http://geeklog.lucid.net.au/article.php?story=20091103205201486 Nov 03 21:48:37 PuffTheMagic: ping Nov 03 21:48:40 rwhitby: hey Nov 03 21:48:44 sup Nov 03 21:48:47 i'm getting the german pre O2 Nov 03 21:48:54 this is what yours is correct? Nov 03 21:48:56 settled? Nov 03 21:48:58 PuffTheMagic: i can't talk on the list Nov 03 21:49:05 PuffTheMagic: if o2 is the right company Nov 03 21:49:09 then its all settled Nov 03 21:49:10 what list? Nov 03 21:49:11 on the 13th Nov 03 21:49:19 s/list/#wirc/g Nov 03 21:49:29 i tought u said O2 was the wrong one the other day Nov 03 21:50:19 PuffTheMagic: O2 uk is locked Nov 03 21:50:22 lingfish: yeah, that's why I got it from retailer in Germany. If it breaks I can send it back to stefan to do a warrantly claim on my behalf in his local shop. Nov 03 21:50:25 o2 germany is different Nov 03 21:50:47 rwhitby: i just want to know if you are getting yours from o2 in germany unlocked Nov 03 21:50:51 if this is the case i'm all set Nov 03 21:50:54 ni|: yes Nov 03 21:50:57 great Nov 03 21:50:58 but I don't have it yet. Nov 03 21:50:59 then i'm all set Nov 03 21:51:04 rwhitby: yeah, but if O2 sell online and ship here too, same diff, it can be returned there :) Nov 03 21:51:11 so I make no guarantees of it working :-) Nov 03 21:51:22 rwhitby: well let me know if it works there Nov 03 21:51:27 lingfish: that would depend on O2 return policies, no? Nov 03 21:51:31 All, that's the last piece of research, check back on my blog for results from O2 Nov 03 21:51:48 lingfish: they may only be required to support .eu citizens or something ... Nov 03 21:52:03 Yep, that's what I need to find out. Nov 03 21:52:05 rwhitby: all i'm concerned about is that i'm getting an unlocked german pre Nov 03 21:52:07 Then I'm ordering :) Nov 03 21:52:19 and the one that i have offerered is o2 german pre Nov 03 21:52:26 i just wanted to veirfy the provider Nov 03 21:52:42 the GSM frequencies match up perfectly with att Nov 03 21:52:56 ni|: um, no they don't Nov 03 21:53:03 oh, GSM does, UMTS doesn't Nov 03 21:53:21 AT&T is not 900/2100 UMTS, is it? Nov 03 21:53:37 * rwhitby bbl Nov 03 21:53:50 rwhitby: it does match up Nov 03 21:58:32 PuffTheMagic: this is pretty awesome Nov 03 21:58:43 what? Nov 03 21:58:59 pre stuff Nov 03 21:59:03 you finally rubbed off on me Nov 03 22:01:23 it was gonna happen at some point Nov 03 22:01:32 lol Nov 03 22:01:36 i guess so Nov 03 22:01:37 its a fun platform Nov 03 22:01:41 lucky you got me instead of dodo Nov 03 22:01:43 from a user and dev pov Nov 03 22:01:45 or javashin Nov 03 22:01:53 well the dev env is so great Nov 03 22:02:07 i just watned a linux in my palm Nov 03 22:02:23 in my plam on a palm :D Nov 03 22:02:39 s/a p/a P/ Nov 03 22:02:39 PuffTheMagic meant: in my plam on a Palm :D Nov 03 22:16:22 i asked in #webos by mistake so i'm going to ask again here, i installed the termplugin and terminal packages, but when i try to run the terminal, it tells me something like "Termplugin is missing and this app is useless without it", what might be the problem here? Nov 03 22:16:46 one of the packages was 0.2.2 the other 0.2.3 Nov 03 22:17:40 is the plugin where it's supposed to be in the filesystem ? Nov 03 22:23:31 bpadalino|work: do you know where it's supposed to be? Nov 03 22:23:57 i looked around in /usr and didn't find it Nov 03 22:25:08 there is a plugins directory for luna .. it should be there .. Nov 03 22:25:25 there may have been postinsts which might have been required to run .. did you run them ? Nov 03 22:26:07 i think ipkg ran postinsts, but let me try manually Nov 03 22:27:26 how did you install ? Nov 03 22:28:50 egaudet_work: downloaded the packages from ipkg.preware.org stable repos, copied over to the phone and did "ipkg install this" "ipkg install that" as i've not set up direct internet access on the phone yet Nov 03 22:29:15 ipkg -o /var install this Nov 03 22:29:29 do NOT run ipkg install Nov 03 22:29:34 ipkg -o /var install Nov 03 22:29:47 sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/.postinst Nov 03 22:30:30 * balrog-k1n tries that Nov 03 22:30:40 make sure to ipkg remove if you already did ipkg install Nov 03 22:30:41 i'm not planning on wiping the filesystem out very often Nov 03 22:31:17 using ipkg install will install to root filesystem which will likely conflict with Palm's update system and cause the update system to see your pre as needing an update when it is already up to date Nov 03 22:32:50 * egaudet_work heads home Nov 03 22:33:08 balrog-k1n: since we need to use -o switch, scripts are not run automatically. Did you follow the Terminal install doco? Nov 03 22:33:58 ni|: which bands in UMTS match up with AT&T ? Nov 03 22:34:09 ni|: GSM will match, but UMTS? Nov 03 22:34:27 rwhitby: only to the point where it told me to use Preware because i had not set that up yet Nov 03 22:34:37 rwhitby: go to work. Nov 03 22:35:07 balrog-k1n: and you disregarded that and it didn't work ;-) Nov 03 22:35:21 ni|: : AT&T: UMTS II/ V (1900/850) - doesn't match German Pre Nov 03 22:35:42 balrog-k1n: welcome, BTW :-) Nov 03 22:35:46 i didn't disregard it... i "customised" it :) Nov 03 22:36:17 i now see that with -o it indeed skipped the postinst part Nov 03 22:36:25 balrog-k1n: still doing any moko stuff? Nov 03 22:37:03 rwhitby: moko? Nov 03 22:37:08 balrog-k1n: postinst and prerm are very important for advanced homebrew on Pre Nov 03 22:37:08 rwhitby: only using the phone as a modem but looking hopefully to switch to something like the Pre as a test platform :) Nov 03 22:37:08 xD Nov 03 22:37:35 balrog-k1n: welcome aboard then - let me know if there's anything you need. Nov 03 22:37:36 right, but since i had not used the -o first, it did run the postinst Nov 03 22:37:46 rwhitby: thanks Nov 03 22:38:09 balrog-k1n: ah - using ipkg without -o is believed to be the cause of the continual 1.2.1 updating Nov 03 22:38:20 (well, it's one theory, not proven) Nov 03 22:38:34 the wiki turns out an extremely useful resource Nov 03 22:38:39 balrog-k1n: but since you'll be running fso probably it won't matter ;-) Nov 03 22:38:55 balrog-k1n thank you for the wiki comment. Nov 03 22:38:57 balrog-k1n: unlike most wikis ? ;-) Nov 03 22:38:58 We try hard. Nov 03 22:39:07 _very_ hard aamof Nov 03 22:40:18 i've not connected it to internet yet so i don't know about updating Nov 03 22:40:38 rwhitby: i'm not at all sure about FSO, the default ui is really nice Nov 03 22:40:51 for showing off especially :) Nov 03 22:40:56 balrog-k1n: have you seen the meta-doctor yet? Nov 03 22:40:59 freakout-away: didn't you order your pre before rwhitby? Nov 03 22:41:07 s/before/after/ Nov 03 22:41:07 dBsooner-work meant: freakout-away: didn't you order your pre after rwhitby? Nov 03 22:41:07 rwhitby: yes, this is how i got through the activation Nov 03 22:41:17 rwhitby: thanks for the tool btw Nov 03 22:41:21 balrog-k1n: any improvements to meta-doctor required? Nov 03 22:41:21 iphone jailbreakers leave their root password default, get pwned: http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=4805 Nov 03 22:41:29 rwhitby: yes Nov 03 22:41:37 rwhitby: it says so on pre central Nov 03 22:41:55 ni|: says what? Nov 03 22:41:58 * Palm Pre GSM Bands: 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900 Nov 03 22:41:58 * Palm Pre UMTS/HSDPA Bands: 850 / 1900 / 2100 Nov 03 22:42:08 ni|: it's wrong. Nov 03 22:42:11 I completely re-worked the meta-doctor instructions on the wiki last night. Nov 03 22:42:16 Hmm... Nov 03 22:42:18 rwhitby: ok, then what are they Nov 03 22:42:39 ni|: .eu Pre UMTS bands are 900/2100 Nov 03 22:42:58 rwhitby: that doesn't mean the phone uses them exclusively Nov 03 22:43:08 it says specifically that it is triband Nov 03 22:43:12 the phone is triband Nov 03 22:43:22 ni|: where does it say tri-band UMTS ? Nov 03 22:43:36 http://www.precentral.net/good-news-bad-news-gsm-palm-pre-bands-and-unlocking Nov 03 22:43:40 rwhitby: ^ there Nov 03 22:44:10 ni|: I mean where is the *authoritative* source of that information, not a random blog guess from September ? Nov 03 22:44:29 (a blog guess that is wrong, BTW) Nov 03 22:44:47 rwhitby: idk you seem to be the sage around here Nov 03 22:44:52 ni|: if you're basing your purchase decision off a PreCentral article, you're going to be very sorry ... Nov 03 22:45:07 you telling me that eu 3G frequencies doesn't tell me the actual frequencies of the phone Nov 03 22:45:21 that had actual information about the phone Nov 03 22:45:37 rwhitby: where is information that invalidates that that you consider more *authoraitative* Nov 03 22:45:49 ni|: agreed. I'm telling you the info from he specificiations list in the German Pre user manual, and from private conversations I've had to Palm employees regarding developer phones .... Nov 03 22:46:18 ok, i appreciate the inside views Nov 03 22:46:27 so you are saying that the german pre won't work on 3g here only on edge Nov 03 22:46:38 the German Pre user manual clearly states the supported bands Nov 03 22:46:42 that is public information Nov 03 22:47:02 right but then why would they release phones with different frequencies Nov 03 22:47:08 because they can. Nov 03 22:47:12 ni| see http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Palm-Pre-GSM-phone-p_3530.html Nov 03 22:47:14 are you saying they are making one for all of eu including uk and germany Nov 03 22:47:17 Rick_work: thats bad design Nov 03 22:47:35 quad band voice Nov 03 22:47:36 ni|: all phone manufacturers do it. it's a simple cost issue Nov 03 22:47:42 UMTS dual band. Nov 03 22:47:57 Rick_work: thanks for the link Nov 03 22:48:01 so basically i'm in trouble for 3g Nov 03 22:48:03 ni|: one for .eu (and rest of world), one for .us, since .us is different from everywhere else Nov 03 22:48:03 period. Nov 03 22:48:24 Rick_work: quad band GSM (including EDGE data) Nov 03 22:48:29 though i'm getting this phone 3g for austrailia Nov 03 22:48:42 right Nov 03 22:48:42 ni|: 900/2100 is perfect for .au Nov 03 22:48:44 so i have no idea if its supported there Nov 03 22:48:45 including edge data. Nov 03 22:48:48 not for at&t though Nov 03 22:48:53 thats whack Nov 03 22:49:05 word Nov 03 22:49:06 Rick_work: so it won't even do data over here is what youa re saying Nov 03 22:49:07 ni|: (except Telstra Next-G, which is 850) Nov 03 22:49:20 wonderful, the terminal is now working and the problem was precisely with me not using the -o /var path which is hardcoded termplugin's in .postinst Nov 03 22:49:21 quad band GSM *including* EDGE Nov 03 22:49:21 rwhitby: well i'll deal with that when i get to my job Nov 03 22:49:24 * rwhitby bbiab Nov 03 22:49:28 ni| I'm saying that it will do edge. Nov 03 22:49:36 it will NOT do 3g Nov 03 22:49:37 *in termplugin's .postinst Nov 03 22:49:41 Rick_work: ok Nov 03 22:49:44 in the US. Nov 03 22:49:46 at least i'll have a connection maybe Nov 03 22:49:51 yep Nov 03 22:49:53 idk if they will ever come out with a US version Nov 03 22:50:01 maybe i should just wait for that.... Nov 03 22:50:07 and get a dead handset to dev on Nov 03 22:50:07 They abso-lutely WILL come out with a US version. Nov 03 22:50:17 ni|: at&t has said they'll have it in early 2010, I think q1? Nov 03 22:50:17 Rick_work: do you have any idea on a timeframe? Nov 03 22:50:42 I will give you the exact response that I have gotten from palm staff that I have spoken with. Nov 03 22:50:43 i'll be in au then Nov 03 22:50:44 :P Nov 03 22:50:51 "It can't come soon enough for us." Nov 03 22:50:56 Rick_work: heh Nov 03 22:51:13 well i'm excited if i decide to splurge and get one now it will work in au at my job Nov 03 22:51:21 Rick_work: it's interesting, I thought they were rabidly devoted to iphone Nov 03 22:51:27 Rick_work: can i map the z key to the y char Nov 03 22:51:33 and the y key to the z char code Nov 03 22:51:43 destinal: hell no they aren't Nov 03 22:51:47 destinal: they just know its a money maker Nov 03 22:51:48 no one at the levels Rod or I have access to has knowledge of the strategic plans. Our contacts are tactical. Nov 03 22:52:10 ni| yes, Rod programed that into the meta-doctor Nov 03 22:52:13 ni|: yeah you can swap to the qwerty layout, it's a token in partition1 and rwhitby's metadoctor has steps to do it Nov 03 22:52:14 though none of this is going to stop me from finishing this thread view patch on the mail app Nov 03 22:52:18 hello all Nov 03 22:53:07 what exactly do i have to delete to change the theme from one custom theme to another? Nov 03 22:53:47 destinal: thx Nov 03 22:53:48 Rick_work: thx Nov 03 22:53:56 * ni| goes back to thread patch Nov 03 22:54:03 wait last thing Nov 03 22:54:13 destinal: do you know if 3g will be triband on the us version? Nov 03 22:54:26 BoBoYsDaDDa what did you use to install your theme? Nov 03 22:54:37 preware Nov 03 22:54:41 ni| it is very unlikely to be triband Nov 03 22:54:58 then BoBoYsDaDDa just select that theme again, and choose REMOVE from preware. Nov 03 22:55:06 and you should be back to the factory theme Nov 03 22:55:15 wow i feel like a n00b thanx Nov 03 22:55:39 you can say that again Rick_work ;) Nov 03 22:55:48 ni| by the way, one more data point for you.... Nov 03 22:55:51 http://www.cellaz.com/news/4997/unlocked-gsm-palm-pre-available-in-the-us/ Nov 03 22:56:06 expansys has GSM pre's available for sale in the US. Nov 03 22:56:26 wow thats cheep lol Nov 03 22:56:28 They say in their catalog that it is DUAL BAND UMTS. Nov 03 22:59:15 Rick_work: i don't get why they are stinging on this Nov 03 22:59:19 iphone 3g is tri Nov 03 22:59:24 blackberry bold is tri Nov 03 22:59:33 thats what they are competeing with Nov 03 22:59:38 only $715...who not buy 10 Nov 03 22:59:39 ni| because they can Nov 03 22:59:42 ni|: you'll need to ask Palm marketing about that, not us. Nov 03 22:59:42 i wish webos could go on a nokia n97 Nov 03 22:59:52 Rick_work: i don't get why you say they can Nov 03 22:59:54 its a bad thing Nov 03 22:59:56 not a good thing Nov 03 23:00:05 rwhitby: agreed, i'm not trying to be a pain just get the facts Nov 03 23:00:16 ni| it saved a dollar a unit at a time they were totally broke. Nov 03 23:00:18 either way i'm still going to be writing software Nov 03 23:00:29 ni|: there are no facts related to a .us UMTS Pre. Only facts related to a .eu UMTS Pre. Nov 03 23:00:41 rwhitby: got it. Nov 03 23:00:45 thx guys Nov 03 23:00:48 anything anyone says about a .us UMTS Pre is pre-release hearsay. Nov 03 23:01:06 where are people submitting patches to palm apps? Nov 03 23:01:09 rwhitby ni| correct, there are only rumors, and poor quality those re a US gsm Nov 03 23:01:15 to dBsooner Nov 03 23:01:30 ni|: cause it's the only way to distribute changes without falling into copyright issues. webOS is not open source. Nov 03 23:01:31 is he a palm employee? Nov 03 23:01:44 ni|: who? Nov 03 23:01:53 why would i submit an patch to dBsooner Nov 03 23:01:56 no. dBsooner is a webos-internals team member Nov 03 23:02:05 ni|: oh, sorry, I thought you said "why", not "where" :-) Nov 03 23:02:15 ni|: it's the way to get it into Preware Nov 03 23:02:27 ni|: please submit direct to Palm too ;-) Nov 03 23:02:27 oh ok, yes i want to submit to palm Nov 03 23:02:38 ni|: developer.palm.com Nov 03 23:02:48 yes i think it will be well done once its not hiccuping about random things Nov 03 23:03:00 i'll send screenshots of the emulator doing thread view soon Nov 03 23:03:02 ni|: we license our patches MIT so that Palm can use them if they choose. Nov 03 23:03:23 ni|: if you submit it to preware, others can use it a lot sooner. it takes palm a while to get patches in, and I don't know that I've actually heard of any that were accepted yet (though I may just not have heard of it) Nov 03 23:03:24 i'm a kernel hacker on mac, freebsd, and plan9 os. I only use MIT or BSD Nov 03 23:03:28 ni| and the developer relations team at palm watches the preware feeds. Nov 03 23:03:42 ah ok nice Nov 03 23:03:57 well thanks for all your information Nov 03 23:03:57 I like how GSM EDGE is referred to as "useless" in http://www.cellaz.com/news/4997/unlocked-gsm-palm-pre-available-in-the-us/, when I use GSM EDGE every day on my current phone ... Nov 03 23:04:12 rwhitby: i actually use edge only on my 3g capable phones Nov 03 23:04:14 for battery sake Nov 03 23:04:29 ok don't like luna Nov 03 23:04:34 that's confirmed because we saw it on their phones at sprint dev con Nov 03 23:04:36 ni|: so that site is another example of not believing the information on random blog articles Nov 03 23:04:38 rwhitby: I used EDGE for a long time on my iphone. it was acceptable, but I find that I'm tremendously more productive on 3g Nov 03 23:05:13 see i use my phone for auxiliary email and web Nov 03 23:05:26 in general, I've found that more than 80% of tech bloggers have no idea what they are talking about. Nov 03 23:05:27 its more of a nuisance to charge it Nov 03 23:05:29 :P Nov 03 23:05:36 anyways i want to go back to tinkering with some stuff Nov 03 23:05:46 really what i want to do is get this libertas working on linus Nov 03 23:05:48 linux Nov 03 23:05:56 so we can update this kernel Nov 03 23:06:02 because thats my favorite area Nov 03 23:06:09 i'm goign to check out the sprint pre for a bit Nov 03 23:06:09 that's confirmed because we saw it on their phones at sprint dev con Nov 03 23:06:31 <_droO> ni| Nov 03 23:07:12 _droO: ? Nov 03 23:07:23 * rwhitby posts http://www.precentral.net/good-news-bad-news-gsm-palm-pre-bands-and-unlocking#comment-38679 Nov 03 23:08:23 ni|: BTW, you know that PuffTheMagic will make fun of you for believing something written on PreCentral ;-) Nov 03 23:08:40 rwhitby: we go back a ways Nov 03 23:08:48 i'm the boy genius Nov 03 23:08:56 he makes fun of me no matter what because i'm young Nov 03 23:08:59 what is PuffTheMagic ? Nov 03 23:09:32 nil->age < PuffTheMagic->age Nov 03 23:09:36 :) Nov 03 23:10:02 i have wave invites if people want them too Nov 03 23:10:06 please contact me in pm though Nov 03 23:10:11 PuffTheMagic: you get one because i love you Nov 03 23:10:13 heh, both < 0.5 x rwhitby->age then Nov 03 23:10:30 bbl i'm going to mess with this emu and a sprint pre of my friend Nov 03 23:10:33 * ni| waves Nov 03 23:10:35 Hurrah! Finally finished: Interview with Jason Robitaille: http://pre101.com/blog/2009/11/03/interview-with-jason-robitaille/ Nov 03 23:13:41 word of advice-- don't tell other pre owners at work that u hacked/customized (whichever u prefer) your pre. i have to take my laptop to work tomorrow and show 5 people how to do the same thing Nov 03 23:15:26 BoBoYsDaDDa: :D Nov 03 23:15:32 I dont know anyone who has a Pre Nov 03 23:15:33 I call that a win. Nov 03 23:16:40 i call it a headache. i don't even remember all the patches i put on mine Nov 03 23:17:15 I knew taking a picture of my damaged Invisible Shield's before I sent them back to zagg was a good idea. Even better I did it while they were attached to the piece of paper. Nov 03 23:17:21 what i would love to see is a windows application for sorting the launcher page Nov 03 23:17:47 yeah my invisible shield is scratched too. Nov 03 23:17:59 mine wasn't scratched Nov 03 23:18:01 the corners were all torn up Nov 03 23:18:37 <_droO> my invisisheild is getting kinda fucked up ;/ Nov 03 23:18:50 <_droO> a couple of the corners, on the front where the lil tabs fold over Nov 03 23:18:53 my corners are doing just fine but being a mechanic and carrying my phone around with a bunch of wrenches scratched it Nov 03 23:18:54 <_droO> are starting to bubble up Nov 03 23:19:15 oh i have the bubble on the corners but thats because i did a shitty instalation job Nov 03 23:19:16 * zsoc sighs Nov 03 23:19:18 _droO: yeah.. right in that crease Nov 03 23:19:22 <_droO> yeppp! Nov 03 23:19:23 That is exaclty where mine is always bad Nov 03 23:19:29 PuffTheMagic, ping Nov 03 23:19:45 I got my BodyGuardz installed at the mall. so, I'll probably take it back to them when the corners become bad again Nov 03 23:19:46 haha, AT&T is suing Verizon for the "theres a map for that" ads Nov 03 23:19:49 Anyway.. I sent back my Pre Full Body AND my iPod Touch 2g full body on the same piece of paper. Nov 03 23:19:58 UPS ground, w/ sig confirm. Nov 03 23:20:02 i'm going to get a new one and pay the extra 12 bucks to let the best buy guy install it Nov 03 23:20:06 ROFL Abyssul Nov 03 23:20:16 They charged me for the Touch 2g saying "we never recieved that one. but got your pre" Nov 03 23:20:25 I said.. "Impossible.. They were on the same damn piece of paper." Nov 03 23:20:49 Abyssul: on what grounds? Nov 03 23:20:58 its on engadget Nov 03 23:21:00 slander i guess Nov 03 23:21:02 Abyssul: Cease & Desist can only be called if it's FALSE Nov 03 23:21:12 what they are caliming is true Nov 03 23:21:15 I think it's hilarious Nov 03 23:21:16 Im just relying the headline lol Nov 03 23:21:35 i know its true but if u put a little pressure sometimes the other company will cave Nov 03 23:21:38 What's the easiest way to mimic ctrl+c in terminal? kill -INT ? Nov 03 23:21:49 lol Nov 03 23:21:51 Sym+C Nov 03 23:21:55 Sym = Ctrl Nov 03 23:21:57 and they are intentionally directly damaging another company by having that in a commercial Nov 03 23:22:11 <_droO> but if its true Nov 03 23:22:13 dBsooner-work, i'm sorry, not the terminal application, i mean a linux terminal :) maybe i should have said dash Nov 03 23:22:14 <_droO> can it be slander? Nov 03 23:22:14 <_droO> ;o Nov 03 23:22:43 _droO, if it's true, it's wide spread gossip, which can be defamatory Nov 03 23:22:51 http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html Nov 03 23:22:56 lookin for a way to play audio on the pre after you've ssh'd into it, tried aplay, didn't work, is there scripts to call? Nov 03 23:22:59 read that for the law on it Nov 03 23:23:03 <_droO> but if all they are doing, is showing att's own coverage map Nov 03 23:23:11 <_droO> and its accurate Nov 03 23:23:12 <_droO> ? Nov 03 23:23:13 latta, define "play audio" please? Nov 03 23:23:52 like i ssh into the pre (as if it was lost) and I want to have it just start playing music Nov 03 23:24:26 <_droO> luna-send and launch the music player Nov 03 23:24:26 <_droO> ;o Nov 03 23:24:31 i read the audio research section but can't find what program/scripts to call Nov 03 23:24:34 latta, you could probably use the gst-launch utility. Nov 03 23:24:39 ah Nov 03 23:25:07 and on the note of greek speak i'm going to go smoke Nov 03 23:25:21 not sure if playbin is available... maybe filesrc and decodebin, or a decoder Nov 03 23:25:27 try gst-inspect :) Nov 03 23:26:07 k, i tried installing vlc via ipkg, it installed, but it didnt' play the file Nov 03 23:26:45 latta, vlc command line.. probably uses ffmpeg or gstreamer anyway. besides, i can't confirm the optware version works, it may be malbuilt (like ffmpeg) Nov 03 23:28:25 you're looking at something like gst-launch filesrc=/media/internal/music/song.mp3 ! palmmp3demux ! alsasink Nov 03 23:28:41 but my gst registry is so hacked i have no idea what elements come stock on the pre Nov 03 23:28:55 zsoc: do you have a patch to the ffmpeg build for optware? Nov 03 23:29:00 and the syntax would be filesrc location=, sorry Nov 03 23:29:17 rwhitby, I rebuilt working ffmpeg, thanks to an idea by ice, that's why my video recorder works :) Nov 03 23:30:07 rwhitby, optware build is fine, it just has --disabled-encoders/decoders/muxers/aplay... so it's a media framework with no working elements ;) except uh... aac encoding i think Nov 03 23:30:30 holy shit you rebuilt ffmpeg? Nov 03 23:30:35 so like video recording owns now? Nov 03 23:30:49 there's a thread on it on PreCentral ... Nov 03 23:30:52 yokken, it's a hack at best, but yes i can recorder/encode on my device. Nov 03 23:30:55 rwhitby, there is? Nov 03 23:31:04 yummy :) Nov 03 23:31:07 g'day Nov 03 23:31:15 zsoc: well, one on video recording. dunno if it has your stuff in it or not. Nov 03 23:31:16 'ello kesne m'boy Nov 03 23:31:21 hey rwhitby Nov 03 23:31:30 mmm i wanna see the video encoding Nov 03 23:31:34 rwhitby, oh, THAT thread... not sure it has ffmpeg info on it Nov 03 23:31:49 Abyssul, it's looks much like the test videos that people uploaded to youtube. Nov 03 23:31:51 zsoc: so why haven't you added that info then ;-) Nov 03 23:32:18 zsoc: or even better, posted a link to your page on the wiki. Nov 03 23:32:44 rwhitby, because i just did this last night Nov 03 23:33:05 rwhitby, also the majority of video/gst wiki info was from me too :P Nov 03 23:33:19 er, well not the majority, but some of it Nov 03 23:33:25 i'll shut up now and do what rod says Nov 03 23:33:31 * zsoc goes and writes wiki pages and posts in forums Nov 03 23:33:44 rwhitby: so, preware? Nov 03 23:33:58 zsoc: just looking for ways to help you get more developers involved Nov 03 23:34:56 rwhitby, well jason WANTS to write the service but is never around and Puff doesn't know it yet but he'll probably end up doing it ;) Nov 03 23:35:06 and honestly I'd like to do the front end, I could use the learning experience Nov 03 23:36:04 rwhitby, I haven't forgotten about your little project, I'll probably fix your optware ffmpeg. I just wanted to contact the original.. uh.. maintainer? to see why it's compiled the way it was. maybe he needed a super light weight version for just audio encoding and i don't want to write over his thingy Nov 03 23:36:32 rwhitby: That sounds like it would be painful. Nov 03 23:36:55 zsoc: possibly. we can do different configs for different optware targets (e.g. a custom config for the Pre) Nov 03 23:37:47 zsoc, why dont you just email jason? Nov 03 23:37:53 rwhitby, that would be a riot. the pre 'custom config' would be a very standard config ... OH WAIT. I can actually make a custom pre config (i mean i have to anyway), just basically strip everything but ffmpeg and a few /usr/lib and that's it. Nov 03 23:38:16 Abyssul, we talk... he's just a busy guy :) besides, he's working on 384284 things Nov 03 23:38:25 Abyssul, plus, even if he doesn't make the app, everyone will just assume he did ;) Nov 03 23:38:47 just offering :) Nov 03 23:39:00 :) Nov 03 23:41:14 im interested in what you have to offer in the wiki page zsoc :) Nov 03 23:41:30 Abyssul, er... I can update it if you like Nov 03 23:41:50 I'm unsure what to put on there. I mean I can update it and correct all the info that's wrong, and start a new ffmpeg page Nov 03 23:42:11 alternatively i can get a working app ;) Nov 04 00:04:11 in the terminal, can you leave the Non-obviouse Keys or Preferences pane without resetting your termainal? Nov 04 00:05:09 zsoc|away: the plan I always use it to write the wiki page and get someone else to do that app ... Nov 04 00:08:02 * rwhitby finally reads http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=4805 and chuckles ... Nov 04 00:12:19 business models Nov 04 00:40:25 rwhitby, get someone else to make the app... hmm.. you are truely noble :> Nov 04 00:40:48 in theory i could take parts from jason Nov 04 00:41:02 's service and cpcrook's app to do the whole thing myself Nov 04 00:52:34 so I'm hearing all we need is a camera gui patch to use someone's amazing video work? Nov 04 00:52:53 or entire video recording app, or both :P Nov 04 00:53:18 camera service anyone? Nov 04 00:53:27 video would be nice Nov 04 00:53:39 i'd still perfer a jabber client, but video is a close second Nov 04 00:54:18 It's being worked on :P Nov 04 00:54:26 * mumbles wants an msn Nov 04 00:54:28 * Mousey wonders which Nov 04 00:54:35 egaudet, apparently my 'video work' is not amazing, but instead is nothing of interest ;) Nov 04 00:54:54 mumbles: well with a generic jabber client, you could concievably be on a jabber service with an msn transport Nov 04 00:54:59 like my server has Nov 04 00:56:02 nothing of interest for end user until there's a gui, but very much interest for us :D Nov 04 00:57:03 I should scroll up but I'm lazy, zsoc wiki? any info on your progress? Nov 04 01:03:37 mousey: jabber is working smoothly using palm's messenger with my binary patch to LibpurpleAdapter Nov 04 01:03:46 ...? Nov 04 01:03:55 lets me specify my server? can i get it from preware yet? Nov 04 01:03:58 mousey: see webos-internals list Nov 04 01:04:00 hell, can i get an ipk for you? Nov 04 01:04:03 wait. wat? Nov 04 01:04:06 mousey: no ipk Nov 04 01:04:10 * Mousey baws Nov 04 01:05:24 http://groups.google.com/group/webos-internals/browse_thread/thread/bb0c8a092a7a02e6 Nov 04 01:05:29 and yes, you can use any server Nov 04 01:05:56 * Mousey hugs LaF0rge's leg Nov 04 01:06:18 LaF0rge, hey, who are you and what awesome thing is this you did? Nov 04 01:06:43 zsoc: I'm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Welte ;) Nov 04 01:07:09 LaF0rge, oh, that's actually a binary patch Nov 04 01:07:11 amazing. Nov 04 01:07:18 crap, except i'm a sysadmin, not an ASM coder.. i'm stuck waiting for someone to dumbify it for me Nov 04 01:07:27 but there's B33R waiting for (s)he who does!! Nov 04 01:07:33 I wonder... are the headers avaible to recompile libpurple? Nov 04 01:07:38 yes Nov 04 01:07:40 it's gpl Nov 04 01:07:42 zsoc: you can also patch the source and recompile Nov 04 01:07:45 mousey: lgpl Nov 04 01:07:49 lgpl, fine Nov 04 01:07:53 still lgpl! Nov 04 01:08:25 it was just quicker for me to do the binary patch rather than setting up the entire cross compilation environment with all the headers Nov 04 01:08:34 it's a shame palm doesn't release their OE recipes Nov 04 01:08:39 LaF0rge, yes, it is lgpl. If you'd like, I can recompile it with the fix and release a new binary. I already have a nice environment hanging out Nov 04 01:08:57 zsoc: sure, feel free to go ahead. Nov 04 01:08:59 I don't blame them for keeping their OE recipes secret.. it's hard to keep anything to themselves Nov 04 01:09:10 zsoc: how {c,w]ould that fit into the preware realm? Nov 04 01:09:19 s/]/}/ Nov 04 01:09:19 Mousey meant: zsoc: how {c,w}ould that fit into the preware realm? Nov 04 01:09:50 they're only inhibiting our own education and exploitation of their awesome hardware by doing so though Nov 04 01:10:14 the money's in the hardware. that's a material good that can be reasonably exchanged for $$s Nov 04 01:10:15 awesome hardware? lol Nov 04 01:10:28 you don't like it eh Nov 04 01:10:34 I don't think anyone likes it Nov 04 01:10:35 i've rarely seen a phone with such poor mechanical quality, especially for that price Nov 04 01:10:47 I love my phone because I love webos. Nov 04 01:11:14 whats good Nov 04 01:11:50 What is the main advantage to people having Jabber working? Nov 04 01:12:16 I'm really disappointed by about anything in/on the pre, apart from the fact they use OE, .ipk and lots of standard linux userland. Nov 04 01:12:42 zsoc: that you can use jaber and avoid google being man in the middle in all yoru communication Nov 04 01:12:59 LaF0rge, we are more impressed here in america. We don't have things like openmoko/maemo :> Nov 04 01:13:33 <_droO> laforge how so Nov 04 01:13:50 <_droO> LaF0rge> I'm really disappointed by about anything in/on the pre Nov 04 01:14:21 _droO, he's saying the build quality of the phone is poor, and the webos gui can be slow at times (available memory, java services, etc) Nov 04 01:15:07 zsoc: i've never had a phone that was getting so hot while running its inefficient software stack that it's actually uncomfortable to hold in my hand. not even talking about the battery drain Nov 04 01:15:09 <_droO> yea, i was just wondering what made him think that tho Nov 04 01:15:14 http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/10/26#20091026-palm_pre-experience is the user point of view Nov 04 01:15:18 <_droO> the build qual of my phone is fine Nov 04 01:15:27 <_droO> :/ Nov 04 01:15:59 _droO, don't get me wrong, I love the Pre :D Nov 04 01:16:04 dro: it's way out of the league of what motorola, nokia, htc or even e-ten/acer are delivering these days Nov 04 01:16:15 dro: just looking at the mechanical quality Nov 04 01:16:22 <_droO> ur blog just makes you look whiney Nov 04 01:16:23 <_droO> ;/ Nov 04 01:16:31 <_droO> those are all very small complaints Nov 04 01:16:33 <_droO> in my eyes Nov 04 01:16:36 <_droO> and could/will all be fixed Nov 04 01:17:36 <_droO> *cry* no rss reader ..ok make one, use palms news app Nov 04 01:17:41 <_droO> *cry* small battery, get a bigger one Nov 04 01:17:44 dro: as indicated, this was just the user point of view since I thought people care more about that than about my ramblings of the software architecture Nov 04 01:17:50 Well, there is an rss reader Nov 04 01:18:09 LaF0rge, honestly... it uses libc 2.5 :P i can't get over that Nov 04 01:18:16 <_droO> look at the g1 Nov 04 01:18:21 <_droO> and androids 1st build Nov 04 01:19:00 i would never even consider looking at android, it's missing 5-10 years of linux userland innovations and replacing it with random crap Nov 04 01:19:09 <_droO> exactly Nov 04 01:19:17 <_droO> like why do i want to install a full root debian install on my sd card Nov 04 01:19:22 <_droO> to do shit i can do already in webos Nov 04 01:21:21 * Abyssul can't wait for WebOS 1.3.1 Nov 04 01:21:36 * rwhitby waves to LaF0rge Nov 04 01:21:51 I wanna install slackware on my pre and dial from cli Nov 04 01:21:58 laf0rge sends a 'korean wave' back to rwhitby ;) Nov 04 01:22:10 LaF0rge: ah, same timezone :-) Nov 04 01:22:25 LaF0rge: still waiting for delivery of my GSM Pre Nov 04 01:28:54 w00t Nov 04 01:28:59 ? Nov 04 01:29:00 1.3.1 doesn't break filecoaster Nov 04 01:29:03 lol Nov 04 01:29:45 you know what pisses me off? Nov 04 01:30:03 these developers that create an app that just uses functions already created by palm and sell it Nov 04 01:30:14 ? Nov 04 01:30:15 IE Nov 04 01:30:25 i'm gonna sell an app that tells you your IP Nov 04 01:30:53 err i meant someone already is Nov 04 01:30:58 rwhitby: you don't have any tracking details? Nov 04 01:31:02 lol Nov 04 01:31:26 * oil makes speedometer app using the gps and sells it for .99 Nov 04 01:31:56 i don't know if i feel more sorry for the users that 100+ users that paid for it or the developer for thinking of such a crazy way to make money Nov 04 01:31:56 lingfish: nope Nov 04 01:32:12 oil: The speedometer would be a good app to sell Nov 04 01:32:15 damn Nov 04 01:32:16 hey I can't download a new theme I went to install app there is none so there is no theme to remove need help Nov 04 01:32:16 lol Nov 04 01:32:26 the IP one is just dumb Nov 04 01:32:32 ip should be free Nov 04 01:32:43 just get the old copy of the homebrew version Nov 04 01:32:52 Sell an app that tells you if your pre is turned on Nov 04 01:32:56 naw, i don't need it Nov 04 01:33:00 i was just stating Nov 04 01:33:09 Stik: Great Idea Nov 04 01:33:22 i use the homebrew version of myip Nov 04 01:33:27 however i don't think i will pay $150 to get it into the app catalog just to make $2 Nov 04 01:33:30 its quite handy Nov 04 01:33:55 thats another thing i hate Nov 04 01:33:57 i don't know howmany people noticed Nov 04 01:34:02 but preware feeds hold old ipks Nov 04 01:34:11 palm makes you pay to enter your apps into the app catalog and still takes 30% of the sales Nov 04 01:34:15 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/precentral/ Nov 04 01:34:22 has multiple old version for apps Nov 04 01:34:37 com.appjammers.myip v 0.2 though 0.5 Nov 04 01:34:40 PreGame: It costs them money to staff that place. I suspect they're losing money on the thing Nov 04 01:34:54 so they take it off of developers? Nov 04 01:35:03 i can garantee you i will not submit my apps to the catalog Nov 04 01:35:11 i will sell them via my site Nov 04 01:35:13 They are reviewing developers apps and giving them a marketplace. Nov 04 01:35:19 i submitted to the catalog Nov 04 01:35:20 its not bad Nov 04 01:35:23 developers' apps Nov 04 01:35:26 no, only 1 person reviews the apps Nov 04 01:35:40 there's more than one person. Nov 04 01:35:46 palm can make money elsewhere instead of taking it off the developer Nov 04 01:35:50 if downloads are purchases (i haven't pushed any updates yet) i'm up lie $600 Nov 04 01:35:52 There are 4-5 now. Nov 04 01:36:09 the price of entry is a GOOD THING Nov 04 01:36:16 less shit Nov 04 01:36:22 oil: Agreed. Nov 04 01:36:23 if it costs you so much to even get into it Nov 04 01:36:24 how much you want to bet all those reviewers are doing it as a side task and do not have that is their primary job Nov 04 01:36:38 you're not going to flood it with garbage Nov 04 01:36:38 actually i think it is bad Nov 04 01:36:44 I'll bet a lot, since I met them out in California. Nov 04 01:36:49 i know the billiards game i am making will not be in the app catalog Nov 04 01:36:56 roy Nov 04 01:36:58 err Nov 04 01:37:09 oil: the ip garbage app got added Nov 04 01:37:13 its not much of a filter Nov 04 01:37:33 Agreed, they're ticking me off with that. I think right now they're stuffing apps. Nov 04 01:37:54 if he thinks he can make money Nov 04 01:37:59 he might as well Nov 04 01:38:03 its much better then apple though Nov 04 01:38:03 they want their catalog to look big so they add every app that doesn't use restricted api's Nov 04 01:38:08 imagine 1000 ip apps Nov 04 01:38:24 you mean like the 1,000 tip calculators? Nov 04 01:38:27 right Nov 04 01:38:40 wait a minute...when you push an update to your app, does it reset the download count? Nov 04 01:38:45 in the app catalog Nov 04 01:38:48 i dont think so Nov 04 01:38:53 okay Nov 04 01:39:06 ill tell you when my update to dotgame drops Nov 04 01:39:17 Isn't apples app catalogue full of useless crap? Nov 04 01:39:21 I've got an update "under review", too Nov 04 01:39:28 i got the review Nov 04 01:39:32 its just not published yet Nov 04 01:39:36 cool Nov 04 01:39:40 the only thing was to add help meues Nov 04 01:39:50 mine is a bug fix and graphics changes Nov 04 01:39:55 but i got passive aggressive with the reviewer last time Nov 04 01:39:56 so hopefully they get through it soon Nov 04 01:40:01 it was "Required in next update" Nov 04 01:40:18 I remember you talking about the response you sent :D Nov 04 01:42:58 well, it took just over 20 days from submitting my simple little update to get a review back Nov 04 01:43:10 i never understood why they ask developers to pay money to submit their app as well as take a percentage off the sales Nov 04 01:43:35 i think i will make my own app catalog which will not charge developers Nov 04 01:43:55 lol Nov 04 01:44:02 its because of the developers that palm is even making sales Nov 04 01:44:08 good luck paying for bandwidth? Nov 04 01:44:17 and getting your catalog on to every pre Nov 04 01:44:22 so that putting an app there is useful Nov 04 01:44:31 without homebrew and the apps in the catalog the pre would be about as useful as doorstop Nov 04 01:44:38 lol Nov 04 01:44:46 i'm not worried about getting my product known Nov 04 01:45:00 i am just happy with providing another alternative for developers Nov 04 01:45:17 i got unlimited bandwidth so i'm not worried Nov 04 01:45:17 maybe you didn't understand what i said Nov 04 01:45:26 why would someone put their app in your catalog Nov 04 01:45:30 if 2 people see it? Nov 04 01:45:44 alot of people use the homebrew section don't they? Nov 04 01:45:45 if they're putting it up to make money Nov 04 01:45:48 they want everyone to see it Nov 04 01:45:57 out of the total pre users using hte catalog? Nov 04 01:46:03 im sure its a pretty small percentage Nov 04 01:46:17 though i have 0 numbers to back that assumption up Nov 04 01:46:29 actually everyone i know or have met at random places uses homebrew Nov 04 01:46:33 lol Nov 04 01:47:59 PreGame: the set of people that people in this channel or on PreCentral is a very very small percentage of Pre users. Nov 04 01:48:12 s/is/know is/ Nov 04 01:48:12 rwhitby meant: PreGame: the set of people that people in thknow is channel or on PreCentral is a very very small percentage of Pre users. Nov 04 01:48:28 infobot: no botsnack for you Nov 04 01:48:28 rwhitby: :) Nov 04 01:53:10 infobot: leave rwhitby alone Nov 04 01:53:54 that was awesome Nov 04 01:53:58 ~botsnack Nov 04 01:53:58 oil: :) Nov 04 01:56:27 heh Nov 04 01:56:39 rwhitby: I updated the patches in the git repo for powersave but have not seen them show up in the preware Misc feed. is there something else I need to do? Nov 04 01:56:46 I think I heard at the sprint dev conf that fewer than 5% of Pre users have homebrew. Nov 04 01:56:53 rwhitby, do you have anyway of knowing how many active pre's have preware on them? it seems a very large percentage of people i know have it Nov 04 02:10:44 jauderho: you need to ping dBsooner to pick up the new version Nov 04 02:12:11 rwhitby: ok Nov 04 02:25:43 rwhitby ping Nov 04 02:37:55 dBsooner: ping Nov 04 02:38:17 dBsooner: rwhitby said to ping you to pick up some patches for the preware feed Nov 04 02:38:38 dBsooner: they are already in the git repo. I just updated them to have the proper license etc. Nov 04 02:38:38 what patches? :D Nov 04 02:38:44 oh okie Nov 04 02:38:48 give me a lil bit Nov 04 02:38:51 misc/misc-powersave* Nov 04 02:38:59 no hurry but figured you should know Nov 04 02:39:10 Yep, I will get them this evening. Nov 04 02:39:15 dBsooner: cool Nov 04 02:44:35 * Abyssul bows to greg_roll Nov 04 02:48:09 Anyone wanna help with my patch? Nov 04 02:48:53 I need to add like a hint text to the top of the emergency dialer that would say "Emergency Mode" Nov 04 02:49:04 where the numbers usually go **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 04 02:59:57 2009