**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 09 02:59:56 2009 Nov 09 03:00:07 so what made you want to do a risc machine ? Nov 09 03:01:10 me? well, i'd rather do a risc machine than a cisc machine :) Nov 09 03:01:31 geist, should the pre go into sleep mode while plugged into power? it should right? Nov 09 03:01:47 not sleep when powered Nov 09 03:01:51 just dim screen Nov 09 03:01:52 plugged in how? straight from the wall to the usb port? Nov 09 03:01:58 or on the puck? Nov 09 03:02:24 geist, not touchstone, but usb, or from palm wall charger. mine doesn't sleep either way, and because of that, never charges (or takes forever to charge) Nov 09 03:02:37 when it's unplugged, it sleeps just fine Nov 09 03:02:39 what does it do? full screen on? Nov 09 03:02:40 geist, very true - or you could do that whole cisc -> risc thing ... or VLIW might be interesting - it's supposed to be really good for keeping a processor busy Nov 09 03:02:59 bpadalino: yeah, but i have a cheapo fpga, probably can't handle too much more Nov 09 03:03:09 entry level cyclone II Nov 09 03:03:11 geist, i can force the screen off, but even if i wait 5 minutes, when i turn it back on, no screen lock. also lunasysmgr is at like 20-40% cpu usage at all times Nov 09 03:03:27 zsoc: dunno, that sounds fishy Nov 09 03:03:36 yeah that sounds bad :( Nov 09 03:03:37 i'm pretty sure it wont do anything different Nov 09 03:03:40 it does indeed, just started happening. maybe it'll visit the doctor Nov 09 03:03:53 cyclone2's sound decent tho .. not a bad chip to work with Nov 09 03:03:54 something is probably keeping it out of sleep Nov 09 03:04:10 only happens plugged in tho, so someone's triggering it Nov 09 03:04:16 bpadalino: yeah, acutally it's pretty good. one of the android guys i was talking to the other day is doing a full NES in his Nov 09 03:04:21 he's got the 6502 bits working Nov 09 03:04:32 yeah, he can probably put 4 or 5 NES's in one Nov 09 03:04:43 though he's got a bigger board Nov 09 03:04:49 some larger cyclone III with a screen Nov 09 03:04:58 oh yeah, probably the nios ii embedded kit Nov 09 03:05:00 with the 3c120 Nov 09 03:05:03 that's a big part Nov 09 03:05:23 it's a NEEK Nov 09 03:05:31 yeah: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc3-embedded.html Nov 09 03:05:55 yeah, those are nice Nov 09 03:06:01 http://www.konkers.net/blog/ Nov 09 03:06:05 those new cyclone4's with the embedded transceivers for PCIe built in look nice too Nov 09 03:06:42 though i just toggle virtual bits at work when i program fpga's .. Nov 09 03:06:55 i just did a simple FSK demodulation algorithm for work the other day Nov 09 03:07:15 i farted around a bit with what level of coding you can get away with in verilog Nov 09 03:07:26 and it turns out that for the initial decode stuff at least you can be pretty darn high level Nov 09 03:07:33 the altera stuff is smart enough to see through it Nov 09 03:07:41 oh yeah man - it's pretty intelligent Nov 09 03:07:50 if you get into VHDL, you can get even higher Nov 09 03:07:53 and more abstract Nov 09 03:07:54 i had been structurally wiring everything up for the longest time Nov 09 03:07:57 and it will slice right through it Nov 09 03:08:13 VHDL is nice since you can have records (think: c structs) as inputs/outputs Nov 09 03:08:16 anyway, i'm working on getting my head around the memory interface Nov 09 03:08:29 do you have sdram on your board ? Nov 09 03:08:43 yeah, and sram, and the cyclone II has about 256k of embedded mem cells Nov 09 03:08:52 oh yeha, the DPRAM is nice! Nov 09 03:08:55 we use them all the time Nov 09 03:09:04 i'll probably just use that at first. the altera thing has some premade ram cells you can do Nov 09 03:09:26 once you learn how to infer them - they make total sense Nov 09 03:09:56 using those as async fifos to cross clock domains is so nice Nov 09 03:09:56 but, mostly using iverilog and gtkwave at the moment Nov 09 03:09:59 works pretty well Nov 09 03:10:08 yeah - it is definitely the cheapest way to go Nov 09 03:10:12 and works very well Nov 09 03:10:31 fits my style, less clicky more typey Nov 09 03:11:04 absolutely - all fun stuff Nov 09 03:11:19 i just love looking at the rtl output to see what the compiler did with it Nov 09 03:11:22 totally love it Nov 09 03:11:29 as far as the instructions, i'm looking at the back end of llvm Nov 09 03:11:36 looks like it's *reasonably* portable Nov 09 03:11:46 retargeting for your own isa ? Nov 09 03:11:50 as in, not an insane amount of work to target Nov 09 03:11:51 yeah Nov 09 03:12:33 it's a cheesy little 32bit risc machine with 16 bit instructions, but it should be full featured Nov 09 03:12:33 i was impressed with llvm when i was looking at it, but i am not an AST/grammar/syntax master at all Nov 09 03:12:56 yeah, i ran some of my vector code through it and it generated crazy efficient stuff for core2/sse Nov 09 03:13:00 much better than stock gcc Nov 09 03:13:20 that is impressive ... Nov 09 03:13:53 does it do better than gcc with arm as well ? Nov 09 03:14:17 probably not at the moment. the arm support for codegen is happening as we speak Nov 09 03:14:25 tons of changes per day, so i suspect it's still immature Nov 09 03:14:28 i gotta say the only part i really cant stand about verilog is the lack of enumerated types for finite state machines ... it just irks me so much Nov 09 03:15:19 i at least like they're focusing on being full featured, efficient and easily extensible ... those are all very good traits Nov 09 03:16:14 oh, and i don't like the lack of real/complex functions for use during synthesis (software radio uses lots of sin/cos/atan at compile time) Nov 09 03:16:16 yeah Nov 09 03:17:00 i think when i am done with this current project at work, i'm going to try to work on doing a turbo decoder ... which sounds really interesting Nov 09 03:18:25 so are you going to have just 1 ALU in your risc machine, or multiple like a DSP ? Nov 09 03:19:58 boy this is not on topic at all .. :( fueled by too much home brew Nov 09 03:22:55 heh Nov 09 03:23:40 buddy came over and i made beef stew .. he made a cream ale ... boy are his brews really tasty Nov 09 03:25:30 hows the bay this time of year? does it stay pretty consistent all year round ? Nov 09 03:28:11 it's starting to cool off Nov 09 03:28:25 might start getting a little bit of rain, though it generally kicks in in late december Nov 09 03:28:32 do you get snow out there ? Nov 09 03:28:37 never Nov 09 03:28:53 nice Nov 09 03:29:23 we'll start getting snow soon ... and getting into the teens Nov 09 03:33:25 later yall Nov 09 03:46:30 zsoc|away: services are damons Nov 09 03:47:22 wait Nov 09 03:53:07 again Nov 09 05:05:08 ya know, im really shocked that there is almost 700 themes in preware Nov 09 05:05:24 and the people who do teh feeds haven't put in some sort of categorization yet Nov 09 05:05:30 talk about hard to find what you might want Nov 09 05:07:06 oil: it's such a personal preference thing that I'm not sure how you would categorise ... Nov 09 05:07:22 it could at least be attempted Nov 09 05:07:52 sports would be one Nov 09 05:07:55 tv and movies Nov 09 05:08:11 those wouldn't be a personal thing Nov 09 05:08:21 games Nov 09 05:08:26 that would categorize a lot of them Nov 09 05:09:14 "Yet another random one" is one of the latest ... Nov 09 05:09:34 it doesn't mean dont categorize them Nov 09 05:09:39 but yeah, I agree with you Nov 09 05:09:40 just because some dont fit an easily defined category Nov 09 05:09:45 thats what misc/other cateogires are for Nov 09 05:10:06 80% at least would fit in a category Nov 09 05:10:15 right Nov 09 05:18:25 installer has been quiet Nov 09 05:18:34 i wonder if itl get a new release once we push this preware update out Nov 09 05:22:08 I agree that the Theme feed is a PITA. Nov 09 05:22:15 oil: it will be a good indication of a pattern ;-) Nov 09 05:22:29 i've got the theme feeds disabled on my pre Nov 09 05:22:32 not in the emu though Nov 09 05:22:44 why i just noticed them all with still no categories Nov 09 05:23:15 I typically have kept them turned off. They are on tonight because I doctored my phone, and am just getting everything up and going again. Preware defaults with them on. Nov 09 05:49:05 I'm setting up linux access.... I ran the sh script... I set a username / password, but now when I attempt to ssh in, it gives me access denied using those credentials. Is there a way I can easily remove that user and then manually recreate it from novaterm? Nov 09 06:18:12 rwhitby: just pushed an update to preware Nov 09 06:18:17 needs A LOT of testing Nov 09 06:19:00 what kind of stuff neeeds testing in it Oil, and when you say pushed, is that pushed to preware as in anyone can download it? Nov 09 06:19:36 when i say pushed, i mean to the repo Nov 09 06:19:45 and, testing is needed for the extra loading Nov 09 06:20:01 that grabs data from appinfo and control files for packages that aren't in feeds Nov 09 06:21:04 but, yeah, anyone could pull it from the repo Nov 09 06:21:15 and palm-package/palm-install it to their pre Nov 09 06:22:36 Hey, can you tell me how to remove a user that I apparently mangled the password on (command line) Nov 09 06:22:54 i don't know much about command line on the pre Nov 09 06:22:57 ive never done it to mine Nov 09 06:24:46 ahhh Nov 09 07:47:31 oil: will test tonight Nov 09 07:54:36 oil: first test hung on "Fixing Unknown Packages" :-) Nov 09 07:55:02 lol Nov 09 07:57:16 there was a bug Nov 09 07:57:23 if there was no unknown it wouldn't know what to do Nov 09 07:57:25 now it does Nov 09 07:57:42 figured it was something like that :-) Nov 09 07:59:53 im also going to fix the no-feeds error Nov 09 07:59:56 where it will just load anyways Nov 09 08:02:31 oil: hey, I've finally got this Package Manager Service not running problem to occur on the emulator. Nov 09 08:04:00 oh? Nov 09 08:09:56 lots of "user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: Error in callmap.c:1904" Nov 09 08:10:05 and "user.crit LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: Could not find call 193 to cancel." Nov 09 08:10:29 and then things in general fall over in a heap for Luna Nov 09 08:10:58 man the pre boor process seems like it needs parallelization Nov 09 08:11:06 s/boor/boot Nov 09 08:16:16 oil: seems to persist after reboot too. Nov 09 08:21:32 rwhitby: thoughts on why? Nov 09 08:22:12 looks like the .jar is missing from /usr/lib/luna/java for a start. Nov 09 08:22:57 Chello there Nov 09 08:26:23 oil: scratch that - forgot that I'd uninstalled preware with wosqi :-) Nov 09 08:27:47 well, no wonder its not running Nov 09 08:27:48 hahaa Nov 09 08:28:03 ok updated version doesn't hang :-) Nov 09 08:29:23 I guess the easiest way to test is to disable all feeds ... Nov 09 08:29:38 ah, that's the bug you were talking about :-) Nov 09 08:29:50 its fixed, right? Nov 09 08:31:40 yep, get "Done!" immediately Nov 09 08:32:08 ok, 4 installed packages (ipkgservice, preware, patch and diffstat) Nov 09 08:32:17 ipkgservice is listed in Unknonw Nov 09 08:33:07 cause it is Nov 09 08:33:07 lol Nov 09 08:33:20 wait Nov 09 08:33:26 thats cause its got appinfo Nov 09 08:34:00 so it doesn't check the control file Nov 09 08:34:19 hmm - appinfo doesn't have Type information Nov 09 08:35:03 right Nov 09 08:35:34 what do we get from appinfo that control file doesn't give us? Nov 09 08:36:03 info for apps with no control file Nov 09 08:36:18 so we should check for control file first? Nov 09 08:36:58 idk, should we? Nov 09 08:37:12 control file is only useful for apps that were in feeds that aren't in feeds anymore Nov 09 08:37:29 yep, e.g. packages installed from disabled feeds Nov 09 08:37:47 like the single theme that people will install and then disable the theme feeds Nov 09 08:38:15 lol Nov 09 08:38:26 missing control file is just for app catalog apps, right? Nov 09 08:38:33 well a theme wouldn't have an appinfo Nov 09 08:38:38 so it would go right to control Nov 09 08:40:43 I think we need to go control file first (cause that's the info we control) and then appinfo if that does not exist or even to overwrite the control file info. Nov 09 08:42:01 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=commit;h=9130df74daca54859f87fbe61eaf6cdf207eca12 Nov 09 08:42:02 >:) Nov 09 08:42:19 hehe Nov 09 08:42:46 oil: for the list of everything, if there is no updated time available in the package, should we now use the installed time instead? Nov 09 08:43:11 isnt installed time also listed? Nov 09 08:43:42 it is - I mean for the sorting of the list of everything by time Nov 09 08:44:40 i.e. if we don't have updated time info for a package at the end of reading all the feeds, then default that field to installed time from the control file Nov 09 08:44:58 then time sorting will use that to give a good approximation Nov 09 08:45:19 so sort by different values Nov 09 08:45:56 oil: I was thinking just when reading a control file, then overwrite the updated time field if it is blank Nov 09 08:46:16 but it wouldnt be updated time Nov 09 08:46:18 its installed time Nov 09 08:46:57 right. it's the best approximation you have without feed data Nov 09 08:47:27 but does it even matter Nov 09 08:47:35 i dont think many people will be using it with all the feeds turned off Nov 09 08:47:47 and by many, i mean, nobody is going to Nov 09 08:48:40 i think lots of people will have a theme installed and the theme feeds turned off Nov 09 08:49:03 so it doesn't really matter, cause its just one package Nov 09 08:49:27 well, the UNKNOWN section in the list of everything just sticks out :-) Nov 09 08:49:38 when you ahve all the feeds turned off Nov 09 08:49:59 with all teh feeds on, its 700 packages down Nov 09 08:50:03 and nobody ever scrolls that far Nov 09 08:50:23 the list of everything is only useful for searching Nov 09 08:50:28 or seeing all recent pacakges Nov 09 08:50:31 packages* Nov 09 08:50:34 brb, laundry Nov 09 08:50:34 interestingly, it seems to have updated time data for diffstat and patch, but not ipkgservice and preware Nov 09 08:59:27 oil: where is the appinfo file and control file actually read? all I see is a commented out call at package.js:58 Nov 09 09:00:57 from packages Nov 09 09:03:28 i made it so it always loads control file after appinfo Nov 09 09:03:31 weather it finds something or now Nov 09 09:06:27 s/now/not/ Nov 09 09:06:27 oil meant: weather it finds something or not Nov 09 09:17:21 oil: with this new splash screen, we have an opportunity for a dicontinuity in preference defaults. Nov 09 09:17:59 what should the default settings be so that as many things as possible are discoverable (e.g. EPR, MvApp, etc) Nov 09 09:19:17 what do you mean? Nov 09 09:21:40 http://www.webos-internals.org/index.php?title=Application_talk:Preware&diff=0&oldid=6758 Nov 09 09:21:48 lol @ adding a feature request i just added... Nov 09 09:23:06 oil: well, is there a way to set the defaults so people can see EPR somewhere other than the list of everything? Nov 09 09:23:34 where is it at? Nov 09 09:25:22 it'll be a Linux Applications Nov 09 09:25:56 if we show the available other by default Nov 09 09:25:59 the main scene will scroll Nov 09 09:26:07 the list of everything wouldn't be visible without scrolling Nov 09 09:26:57 oh, can we change the name of the show all package types preference? Nov 09 09:27:35 ? Nov 09 09:27:54 maybe "Show All Packages Together" Nov 09 09:28:18 thats too long Nov 09 09:28:39 since the preference is in the "Main Scene" section, and when you set it to yes you don't see any package types in the main scene, you see them in the next scene down :-)_ Nov 09 09:29:23 BTW, I think that one should default to yes, and then the splash screen tells people how to get the shortcuts to specific package types on the main screen Nov 09 09:29:57 "Show Type Shortcuts" and invert polarity maybe Nov 09 09:30:12 so now we're making all sorts of changes to its functionality right before 1.0? Nov 09 09:30:13 lol Nov 09 09:31:28 oil: no change to functionality, just changing the string that names of the preference Nov 09 09:31:53 it will still do exactly the same thing, but will default to the opposite value Nov 09 09:32:33 i.e. out of the box, you have Package Updates, Available Packages, Installed Packages, List of Everything, and space to spare (even on a Pixi) Nov 09 09:33:07 then the splash screen and preference name indicates to people that they can use to to add "shortcuts" to particular package types (Applications, Patches, Themes, Other) on the main screen. Nov 09 09:33:21 rwhitby agreeing with what puff wanted months ago? Nov 09 09:33:25 * oil marks calendar Nov 09 09:33:58 oil: sometimes it takes me some time to see the benefit of Puff's good ideas :-) Nov 09 09:34:02 lol Nov 09 09:34:21 but really, we can make changes till we're blue in the face, and people STILL wont be able to find it Nov 09 09:34:24 note that doing this without the splash screen would cause chaos Nov 09 09:34:29 we could put "EPR HERE" in teh main menu Nov 09 09:34:32 and people would STILL ask where it is Nov 09 09:35:07 this way we have three rows spare on the pre and two rows spare on the pixi out of the box, right? Nov 09 09:35:40 I wonder if we could put a "Featured Package" there, that we control through the feeds somehow .... Nov 09 09:35:51 ohh Nov 09 09:35:53 that sounds like a bad idea Nov 09 09:36:06 yeah, very partisan. you're right. Nov 09 09:37:37 but I think it's beneficial to take the opportunity before 1.0 to change the default so that Available Packages is the default out of the box, and people can select what things they want to appear instead of it. Nov 09 09:39:05 oil: maybe even a message row at the bottom, which could display things like "Your Feeds Need Updating" when people change the feed management settings. Nov 09 09:40:01 basically, I think a spare row is a good thing for future expansion, and this is our best chance to teach people about package types out of the box instead of showing just a subset of types on the main scene by default Nov 09 09:44:06 brb, laundry Nov 09 09:47:29 bbiab (dinner) Nov 09 09:47:58 I'd still really like to get Manage Feeds in the top-level menu, but I know I'll loose that discussion :-) Nov 09 09:48:25 maybe I'll release a Patch for Preware ;-) Nov 09 09:57:49 lol Nov 09 09:58:20 morning Nov 09 09:58:35 oh, you're awake, eh? Nov 09 09:58:54 i usually IRC when sleeping, myself ;-) Nov 09 09:59:02 well I'm dressed and my eyes are open Nov 09 09:59:05 awake is subjective ;) Nov 09 09:59:14 your nick says otherwise Nov 09 09:59:47 bah Nov 09 09:59:50 bullies! Nov 09 09:59:51 :p Nov 09 10:00:39 anyway, afk, break time ;) Nov 09 10:03:30 oil: how about "Show Available Types" and invert the polarity of the preference? Nov 09 10:04:06 it defaults to "No", and when you switch it to "Yes" you get the set of Show ... things under it which can also be switched to Yes Nov 09 10:18:41 rwhitby, oil: Did I see someone say Preware 1.0? Nov 09 10:18:44 coming soon? Nov 09 10:18:54 eventually Nov 09 10:19:04 when it's ready Nov 09 10:19:13 sigh. Nov 09 10:19:13 after 9.9.50 Nov 09 10:19:21 and here i thought i had a free news story coming up ;) Nov 09 10:19:31 maybe we'll piggy-back on the 1.3.1 release ... Nov 09 10:19:43 call it Preware 1.3.1 too :-) Nov 09 10:19:45 hahaha Nov 09 10:19:57 Put out a version of the meta-doctor that installs Preware by default ;) Nov 09 10:20:12 In the meantime, I'll have to settle for bitching about faulty Touchstones and calling it news: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9984/the-bad-touchstone/ Nov 09 10:20:39 mine does that sometimes Nov 09 10:20:43 if i don't have it on just right Nov 09 10:20:49 it did it when i had a shitty case, too Nov 09 10:21:25 Yeah. Mine does it if you don't sit the pre on *exactly* right Nov 09 10:21:37 but even when it is, it repeatedly cycles once it hits 100%, no matter how it's sitting Nov 09 10:22:41 bad patch is my guess Nov 09 10:23:41 Yep. Oh well, I'm getting a free replacement. eBay seller didn't even want the old one back - said customs costs back to hong kong weren't worth the bother Nov 09 10:23:58 So the dodgy one can go and sit on my desk at work :) Nov 09 10:27:29 i've been thinking about buying another one so it can be on my desk Nov 09 10:27:42 a whole 5 feet from the one on my night stand Nov 09 10:27:49 simply because moving it abck and forth is a pain Nov 09 10:30:06 lol Nov 09 10:30:09 * freakout has too Nov 09 10:30:40 freakout: one of mine is like that Nov 09 10:30:41 Just spoke with O2's press office. They're going to find out for me when the GSM Pre webOS will be brought to parity with the US version :) Nov 09 10:30:43 (i hope) Nov 09 10:31:07 marajin: it seems like a very common problem Nov 09 10:31:14 freakout: it is Nov 09 10:31:27 but not very surprising, considering they're just being slap-dash glued in at the factory it seems Nov 09 10:31:29 freakout: though if I make a point of aligning it properly both my touchstones are fine Nov 09 10:31:50 If I make a point of aligning it properly mine charges to 100% but continually cycles no matter what. Nov 09 10:32:03 I tried the piece of paper fix, and some duct tape, but no dice. Nov 09 10:32:03 freakout: ah, mine go stable if they're straight Nov 09 10:32:14 although I did hit one of them several tiems to achieve that Nov 09 10:32:22 freakout, remove patches Nov 09 10:32:42 oil: have tried Nov 09 10:32:46 No luck. Nov 09 10:32:54 The only patches I have are the messaging patch Nov 09 10:32:56 oil: heh, I have one at work and one at home to save carrying the charger around yeah Nov 09 10:32:59 (enter key for new line) Nov 09 10:33:05 oil: but not quite as bad as 5 feet apart Nov 09 10:33:11 and the battery percentage patch Nov 09 10:33:19 I thought that might be the prob Nov 09 10:33:22 but seems not. Nov 09 10:33:23 i have no need to charge it at work Nov 09 10:33:29 its good all day Nov 09 10:33:40 it would just be nice to have one on my desk when im programming Nov 09 10:33:42 Mine isn't, it gets quite a lot of email pushed to it Nov 09 10:33:45 without constantly moving it back and forth Nov 09 10:33:46 as i do now Nov 09 10:34:13 It'd probably survive the day, just, but then if I needed it in the evening then it'd likely fail Nov 09 10:34:18 so I don't risk it Nov 09 10:34:24 car charger? Nov 09 10:34:26 I just live in hope that they patch better PM Nov 09 10:34:36 oil: I don't spend that much time in my car Nov 09 10:34:48 extra battery? Nov 09 10:34:52 I only live like 3 miles from work Nov 09 10:34:55 they got that battery chargin station Nov 09 10:35:03 oil: ...yeah OR I could just use the touchstone on my desk :p Nov 09 10:35:05 i wish i lived that close to where i work Nov 09 10:35:39 oil: heh :) I used to live next door to my work Nov 09 10:35:53 just roll out of bed in the morning last minute and saunter next door Nov 09 10:35:55 it's rather nice Nov 09 10:37:23 idk Nov 09 10:37:27 i dont think id want to be THAT close Nov 09 10:37:31 people would bug you Nov 09 10:37:36 want to hang out during lunch, etc Nov 09 10:50:00 oil: I'm very anti-social during my lunch break Nov 09 10:50:21 I read a book and put in headphones, even if I'm not listening to anything, just so they'll leave me alone xD Nov 09 10:56:51 oil: how do I remove the cookie for testing? Nov 09 11:00:37 cookies.js line 133 Nov 09 11:05:32 oil: should we change "Available Other" to "Available Misc" ? Nov 09 11:05:56 or maybe not. Nov 09 11:07:09 idk whats wrong with other Nov 09 11:07:20 yeah, other fits better Nov 09 11:07:36 egaudet has been asking for it to be changed to miscellaneous Nov 09 11:07:42 but thats too long Nov 09 11:07:48 Misc would probably fit Nov 09 11:08:00 really i dont see why it cant just be other Nov 09 11:08:05 misc is not the right world though Nov 09 11:08:22 s/world/word/ Nov 09 11:08:23 rwhitby meant: misc is not the right word though Nov 09 11:11:46 * oil hits the sack Nov 09 11:13:53 oil: good night Nov 09 12:42:06 rwhitby - saw your suggestion I stop by for realtime debug. Had to leave for work and can't stay online here. I'll be free again about 23:00 GMT. Sorry. Nov 09 12:42:58 dwhitman: it's 11:15pm here (GMT+10:30) Nov 09 12:43:52 I'm in USA (Pennsylvania) GMT-6. Hope to talk later. Nov 09 12:44:09 dwhitman: I'm around - catch me when you can. Thanks. Nov 09 13:22:49 ok, who is ready for some Preware alpha testing ? Nov 09 13:23:34 freakout: you're always up for a good splash screen ... Nov 09 13:23:47 me me me Nov 09 13:23:52 ipkgservice 0.9.17 and preware 0.9.6 are in the testing feeds Nov 09 13:24:28 good i added it to my feed list Nov 09 13:25:03 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.9.17_all.ipk and http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.preware_0.9.6_all.ipk for those who need URLs. Nov 09 13:27:06 "Ok, I've read this. Let's continue... Nov 09 13:27:40 hmm Nov 09 13:27:46 its fixing some nknown packages Nov 09 13:27:49 1 of 30 Nov 09 13:28:55 and nothing happens the spinner is going and going Nov 09 13:29:42 ok finaly got it to work Nov 09 13:32:08 en0x: it really took time for fixing the unknowns? Nov 09 13:33:03 the spinner was spinning for few minutes so to get rid of it i updated feeds and it fixed apps in second Nov 09 13:33:46 hmm - any possible reason? Nov 09 13:34:08 hmm corrupted package list? Nov 09 13:34:09 idk Nov 09 13:35:52 fixing unknown packages means that it is reading the appinfo files for apps from the app catalog so it can display them correctly Nov 09 13:37:26 after updating feeds worked fine and is working fine installing removing apps or patches Nov 09 13:37:33 en0x: did the tips for first-timers make sense? Nov 09 13:38:05 yap Nov 09 13:45:09 en0x: did you get "Available Applications" or "Available Packages" by default on the main screen? Nov 09 13:47:33 available packages Nov 09 13:47:48 then i had to go in the prefs and change the setting to how it was before Nov 09 13:48:32 en0x: and the tips made that clear enough or not? Nov 09 13:49:04 is there a way to get that tips screen back again? after clicking continue? Nov 09 13:49:51 not at the moment. Nov 09 13:50:21 you clicked to say you'd read it ;-) Nov 09 13:50:44 right Nov 09 13:50:44 :P Nov 09 13:51:48 at some point we'll flesh out the help screen a bit more ... Nov 09 13:52:11 ye for the low advanced ppl Nov 09 13:52:14 ok brb Nov 09 13:53:40 hmm - the Welcome to Preware screen keeps coming up every time I start Preware here. Does that happen for you? Nov 09 14:02:10 * rwhitby bbt - please get others to test these new versions Nov 09 14:14:19 rwhitby, nope it just came up once Nov 09 14:57:02 wait Nov 09 16:09:08 oil, I think we should probably get rid of this "Available" stuff in preware. Just list "Applications, Patches, Themes, Miscellaneous". Have show installed as available default and then add "Installed" if they set options to not show installed as available Nov 09 16:10:58 Does everyone with voice work on the webos internals project? Nov 09 17:41:11 hows everyone Nov 09 17:41:37 peachy Nov 09 17:42:18 cool cool.. Nov 09 17:43:13 nn Nov 09 17:46:27 umm think imma expand on the call block patch today finnally have time Nov 09 17:49:41 how about adding a * to the end of a contact name to be on the block list ? or would an app to add a number be better? Nov 09 17:54:50 atlanta: app to add a number is better Nov 09 17:55:50 don't mess with my contact data if you don't have to Nov 09 17:56:40 I always hated the crap that datebk & agendus added to events, for example Nov 09 18:14:18 yo? Nov 09 18:24:46 puffy! i love it Nov 09 18:40:02 bah, can't install app cat apps Nov 09 19:41:23 It's too bad you can't put a rating on the patches available in Preware Nov 09 19:41:29 because a lot of them are awesome Nov 09 19:47:19 hello...i am having a problem with the app catalog and the not enough memory error...i have tried to work the mvapp workaround, but actually get stuck on the installing terminal step Nov 09 19:47:42 first of all, i cannot even find terminal or terminal service plugin in preware. i have had them installed before, but they no longer show up in preware for me Nov 09 19:48:20 if I install them through quickinstall, then when I try to run terminal, it says that termplugin is not running and that it is needed for terminal to run, even though device management of QI says it is installed Nov 09 19:48:25 can anyone offer any advice? Nov 09 19:51:03 in preware, go to list of everything and type "term" Nov 09 19:51:17 i've done that about a dozen times...terminal does not show up Nov 09 19:51:36 mvapp, terminal, and terminal service plugin do not show up in my preware...i have it updated to 0.9.5 Nov 09 19:52:25 app menu -> preferences -> installed is available to yes Nov 09 19:53:26 ok, refreshing the feeds...should Linux Applications be available under the categories of applications? Nov 09 19:53:58 no Nov 09 19:54:01 available other Nov 09 19:54:13 available other doesn't show by default, can put it on in preferences menu Nov 09 19:56:17 ok, with installed available, terminal still does not show up under list of everything Nov 09 19:58:53 can you access linux? Nov 09 19:58:59 yes Nov 09 19:59:06 sounds like webos-internals feed isn't in there Nov 09 19:59:23 do ls -l /var/etc/ipkg Nov 09 19:59:39 interestingly, mvapp only showed up in preware after I installed it with QI...will post the results in a second, gotta get putty up Nov 09 20:00:51 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 Sep 20 22:05 arch.conf -> /etc/ipkg/arch.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 69 Oct 31 22:32 canuck-software.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 102 Oct 31 22:32 optware.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 57 Oct 31 22:32 pimpmypre.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 73 Oct 31 22:32 precentral-themes.conf -rw-r--r-- 1 root root Nov 09 20:01:52 sorry didn't post all...canuck-software.conf, optware, pimpmypre, precentral-themes, precentral, prethemer, preyourmind, webos-internals, webos-patches Nov 09 20:02:11 cat /var/etc/ipkg/webos-internals.conf Nov 09 20:03:04 this feed is not configured - please make sure the postinst script is executed to create this feed Nov 09 20:05:59 not sure what that means... Nov 09 20:06:01 re-install package manager service Nov 09 20:06:10 through preware or QI or doesn't matter Nov 09 20:07:25 not sure if you can do it through preware or not Nov 09 20:07:34 qi it is Nov 09 20:09:19 i'm uninstalling, restarting luna, and then reinstalling Package Manager Service...thanks for your help so far Nov 09 20:09:28 what would cause that particular feed not to load? Nov 09 20:10:03 the feed didn't get installed Nov 09 20:10:19 may have been an error in your initial package manager installation that didnt run the postinst correctly Nov 09 20:10:20 dunno Nov 09 20:11:37 just reinstalled, restarting luna before running preware to see if it works Nov 09 20:15:28 hmm, still not working after the reinstall....confirmed with the cat command Nov 09 20:15:55 your install isn't doing something right Nov 09 20:16:02 command line time Nov 09 20:16:08 ok Nov 09 20:16:09 mount -o rw,remount / Nov 09 20:16:40 good to go Nov 09 20:19:50 sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice.postinst Nov 09 20:21:07 weird...No packages removed. Nothing to be done. ls: /var/etc/ipkg/*.disabled: No such file or directory. then restarted java Nov 09 20:21:35 do the cat Nov 09 20:22:43 src/gz webosinternals http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/all Nov 09 20:23:04 src/gz webosinternals-armv7 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/armv7 Nov 09 20:23:31 ok should be good now Nov 09 20:24:02 cool...i'll hit you back in a min and let you know if it worked Nov 09 20:26:22 cool egaudet, i appreciate your help man Nov 09 20:26:31 it worked... Nov 09 20:26:47 if this was the forums, i'd be hitting you up with a thanks Nov 09 20:28:49 Do you guys know how to make prettier bookmarks in webOS's web browser? Nov 09 20:29:06 The preloaded bookmarks have their own icons, rather than screencaps of the website Nov 09 20:29:40 i'd like to have a web browser home page that loaded all of my bookmarks, not just the first 12 Nov 09 20:29:55 way beyond my abilities to create though Nov 09 20:30:44 that's possibly a simple hack Nov 09 20:31:58 i don't know how to code in java and html and whatever else webos uses...my engineering background only taught me c++ (old school!) and i unfortunately don't have time to learn how to program for webos Nov 09 20:32:20 too bad Nov 09 20:32:49 yeap, school continually gets in the way of doing what i really would like to do Nov 09 20:37:07 there's a variable called _maxShowCount in the browser that is set to 12... I'm willing to bet you could tweak that Nov 09 20:37:58 test message Nov 09 20:38:04 ]/usr/palm/applications/com.palm.app.browser/app/controllers/startpage-assistant.js Nov 09 20:38:40 line ten Nov 09 20:38:52 I don't have many bookmarks, so I'm not going to play with it Nov 09 20:40:43 hey thanks man, i appreciate it Nov 09 20:43:29 anyone want to recomend some led lights? Nov 09 20:44:58 ultraviolet Nov 09 20:45:05 did I misunderstand the question? Nov 09 20:47:20 i haf a new shelf, and my current lamp is failing Nov 09 20:47:38 buy a candle Nov 09 20:47:38 :P Nov 09 20:47:55 it will be romantic and all the other crap Nov 09 20:47:56 :) Nov 09 21:16:52 morning Nov 09 21:17:03 morning, rwhitby Nov 09 21:17:47 Mornin all Nov 09 21:17:52 Hello Nov 09 21:19:04 Latest: my Pre hits eXpansys HK end of this week :D Nov 09 21:19:07 anyone alpha test the new Preware and Package Manager Service in the last 6 hours? Nov 09 21:19:27 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.9.17_all.ipk and http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.preware_0.9.6_all.ipk Nov 09 21:19:30 Not yet I will if you need Nov 09 21:19:40 rwhitby: what's new? Nov 09 21:19:58 lots of good stuff. Nov 09 21:20:19 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=applications/preware.git;a=tag;h=360958cd383f6ce20202478f9693c295981f06df Nov 09 21:20:24 Okie dokie going to test it out Nov 09 21:20:38 and http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git;a=tag;h=64d81537abe13d49777bbef9da0ac6e202dd8394 Nov 09 21:26:48 gah, that first URL doesn't wrap :( Nov 09 21:29:37 Well use this then http://hex.io/1m0k Nov 09 21:30:11 * FreeTim3 is not a fan of wicked pissah lengthy URLs Nov 09 21:31:11 Nah I meant the text within the GIT report Nov 09 21:31:11 wicked pissah! Nov 09 21:31:19 lol Nov 09 21:31:22 wtf? Nov 09 21:31:25 boston thing Nov 09 21:31:32 how random! Nov 09 21:31:37 * Mousey goes back to lurking Nov 09 21:31:43 Yep especially Billerica area, some of Revere... :) Nov 09 21:33:45 * Mousey feels schooled Nov 09 21:33:52 * rwhitby is ambivalent to URL lengths, since you never actually type them anywhere. Nov 09 21:34:19 rwhitby: except when I need to extract one from my emulator and get in my desktop browser Nov 09 21:34:22 ouch Nov 09 21:35:11 is that billerrica or bilrica lol Nov 09 21:35:24 * egaudet_work works in billerica Nov 09 21:44:42 so, no alpha test reports yet? Nov 09 21:44:42 anyone figure out why the pre cant play Google Voice mp3 voicemail Nov 09 21:44:42 ? Nov 09 21:44:52 rwhitby: post those links up again Nov 09 21:45:01 http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.9.17_all.ipk and http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.preware_0.9.6_all.ipk Nov 09 21:45:56 ok thanks gonna uninstall current and give this a go Nov 09 21:46:17 why uninstall current? Nov 09 21:46:27 overwriting will work Nov 09 21:46:28 ? Nov 09 21:46:38 yep, since the version changed Nov 09 21:46:48 overwriting only fails when the version is the same Nov 09 21:46:49 oh ok Nov 09 21:47:24 a nice ipkg install http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/webos-internals/testing/all/org.webosinternals.ipkgservice_0.9.17_all.ipk will work right Nov 09 21:47:30 I did not know greg's messaging plugin was patching :( outside of APT Nov 09 21:47:31 or do i need to add -o /var Nov 09 21:48:22 atlanta: always -o /var Nov 09 21:48:27 okkk Nov 09 21:48:28 atlanta: and you need to run the postinst Nov 09 21:48:28 doing now Nov 09 21:48:44 ok Nov 09 21:48:46 * rwhitby wonders if any of the books in http://blog.palm.com/palm/2009/11/my-palm-pre-the-missing-manual-for-everything-for-dummies.html mention Preware or WebOS Internals ... Nov 09 21:50:23 * dBsooner-work learned a big lesson yesterday.. Nov 09 21:50:40 hey rwhitby where does the postint extract to Nov 09 21:50:40 ? Nov 09 21:50:43 "Don't slam your hands down on your keyboard in frustration when the keyboard is the laptop.." Nov 09 21:50:51 * atlanta is sorry for being a semi noob Nov 09 21:51:07 atlanta: it's listed at the end of the Preware wiki page Nov 09 21:51:20 ok Nov 09 21:51:39 oh come on rwhitby.. be nice Nov 09 21:52:01 :-( Nov 09 21:52:02 lol Nov 09 21:52:04 found it Nov 09 21:52:42 btw.. Yeah, my personal laptop's 500GB hard drive said.. "Uh Oh.." last night.. I got some bad sectors. Nov 09 21:52:55 At least it semi-works.. :D Nov 09 21:53:34 dBsooner-work, NOTE: the messaging plugin uses several text patches to messaging app outside of APT. Keep in mind Nov 09 21:53:36 Created the RMA today with seagate.. paid the 20 bucks for advance processecing (they send the new drive via 2 day UPS BEFORE i return the old) :D Nov 09 21:53:58 egaudet_work: what? Nov 09 21:54:21 rwhitby: got it up and runnign Nov 09 21:54:35 dBsooner-work, was I unclear? Nov 09 21:54:47 egaudet_work: what messaging plugin? Nov 09 21:55:07 http://forums.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/205914-messaging-plugins-live-yahoo-icq.html Nov 09 21:55:29 i donm't use live, icq or yahoo Nov 09 21:55:32 so I would have never looked Nov 09 21:55:34 ;) Nov 09 21:56:51 so when the new drive gets here, should I make the data partition FAT? Nov 09 21:56:58 egaudet_work: yeah, the intent is to autopatch it up Nov 09 21:57:06 (once it's ready to go in preware) Nov 09 21:57:13 FAT32* Nov 09 21:57:15 whats the speed/relaibility differences betwen NTFS and FAT32? Nov 09 22:01:04 dBsooner-work: if the answer to the question "do I have files over 4 gigs" is yes, don't make it FAT, otherwise, it depends upon what level of data interchange you need with other operating systems Nov 09 22:01:45 has anyone looked at auto correct service, security wise? Nov 09 22:02:30 EdLin: I meant FAT32, not FAT. Does that make a difference? Nov 09 22:02:59 dBsooner-work: not in this case. > 4gig files aren't supported in any version of FAT Nov 09 22:03:08 And basically I wanted a filesystem that is native for both windows and linux Nov 09 22:03:16 EdLin: that sucks Nov 09 22:03:25 dBsooner-work, do you really have files > 4gig? Nov 09 22:03:33 EdLin: dvd's > 4gigs Nov 09 22:03:46 dBsooner-work: linux supports NTFS using NTFS-3g and user-space file system drivers. Nov 09 22:03:56 egaudet_work: yep.. lots of dvd's Nov 09 22:04:00 iso format Nov 09 22:04:27 EdLin: I know.. but its very sloppy.. I had tons and tons and tons of index problems when using linux's ntfs-3g Nov 09 22:04:35 Doesn't Windows have 3rd party ext3 addon? Nov 09 22:04:54 i think I would feel safer going that route.. windows driver for ext3 Nov 09 22:05:04 than linux driver for ntfs Nov 09 22:05:04 dBsooner-work: FAT will corrupt any file over 4gigs. You have no choice but not to use FAT Nov 09 22:05:20 dBsooner-work: there's one for EXT2 that works with EXT3. Nov 09 22:05:27 or forget your dvd's, compress them Nov 09 22:05:40 you can turn them into good quality avi's < 2GB Nov 09 22:05:41 problem is extracting them Nov 09 22:05:43 to burn them Nov 09 22:05:44 ;) Nov 09 22:05:55 why would you do that on a shared FAT fs? Nov 09 22:06:02 I wouldn't Nov 09 22:06:07 so what's the problem? Nov 09 22:06:16 id do it on a shared ntfs Nov 09 22:06:33 both your linux and windows have big enough partition to do that on their private partitions no? Nov 09 22:06:38 I usually set it up as 50gb part for linux, 50gb for windows, 400 gb for storage Nov 09 22:06:50 I don't see why you need to extract/burn on a shared partition Nov 09 22:07:04 you burn often? Nov 09 22:07:12 no Nov 09 22:07:23 whenever the storage drive fills up Nov 09 22:07:33 you have less than 4 gigs free on your private partitions? That's not good either. Nov 09 22:07:39 i get what i pay for with my giganews account Nov 09 22:07:43 i auto grab a lot of stuff Nov 09 22:07:52 EdLin: no i don't. Nov 09 22:08:24 that'll create fragmentation on ext3 or probably NTFS. Nov 09 22:08:46 (NTFS supposedly also takes care of fragmentation using free space, in a broken way since XP.) Nov 09 22:08:51 so there is no real good solution Nov 09 22:09:08 dBsooner-work: good solution is to rethink having 50gb partitions Nov 09 22:09:36 the solution to windows/linux interoperability is MacOSX, NFS and VirtualBox ;-) Nov 09 22:09:40 1 terabyte is available for less than $1000 Nov 09 22:09:42 1 terabyte is available for less than $100 Nov 09 22:09:43 oops Nov 09 22:09:54 rwhitby++ Nov 09 22:10:04 EdLin: not for a lpatop Nov 09 22:10:05 except VMWare Fusion, not VB. ;-) Nov 09 22:10:21 dBsooner-work: even a laptop can do better than 100GB. Nov 09 22:10:23 you can get a 1.5TB Seagate for $97 right now on newegg, btw. Nov 09 22:10:25 what's a good java decompiler for ubuntu Nov 09 22:10:40 * Robi_ pats EdLin Nov 09 22:10:41 EdLin: whatever virtualisation works for you. Nov 09 22:10:59 rwhitby: I think that's how I am going to end up doing it. Nov 09 22:11:03 rwhitby: I have both, because vb is after all, part of the Palm Pre emulator. Nov 09 22:11:18 EdLin: VB does everything I need, so I just use one :-) Nov 09 22:11:35 rwhitby: Windows and NTFS for everything. Then VB or VM different OS's and just use built in Shraed Folders. :D Nov 09 22:11:43 hey rwhitby using it now Nov 09 22:11:47 * EdLin has space for both, and earlier paid for VMWare which is better enough to justify it. Nov 09 22:12:10 what I like th emost about my vmware 6? Nov 09 22:12:14 how about linux+VB for everything Nov 09 22:12:14 :P Nov 09 22:12:21 RDA.. I love having a true raw disk access for my vmachine Nov 09 22:12:32 EdLin: I paid for VMWare 5 on windows, and didn't carry it across to Mac cause the free VB did everything I needed, and supported USB2 better. Nov 09 22:12:37 VB don't run My WIndows 7 64 bit really well Nov 09 22:12:48 rwhitby: I got a mac before VB existed for OS X anyway. Nov 09 22:13:07 at least in free form, I don't know if it had an OS X flavor before Sun made it into freeware Nov 09 22:13:18 probably not Nov 09 22:13:39 egaudet_work: I have given up on ubuntu again. Nov 09 22:13:49 anyone know why some moveapp'd apps can't update in the app catalog? Nov 09 22:13:58 egaudet_work: At least as the primary OS. Linux jsut doesn't play well with my Toshiba laptop. Nov 09 22:14:29 dBsooner-work: give it a year or two, and whatever drivers you need someone will have written. ;-) Nov 09 22:14:47 once I get a new laptop, I will probably move back. But having to fight over and over and over again to get one part of the ACPI to work just to break another part is really annoying. Nov 09 22:15:08 EdLin: I have given it over a year now.. The problem with Toshiba ACPI has been around for years. Nov 09 22:15:16 rwhitby: working pretty well Nov 09 22:15:35 Then Toshiba moved away from Phoenix BIOS to this Insyde H2O ... which made it even worse. Nov 09 22:15:42 dBsooner-work: really? Toshiba used to make very nice small laptops before Vista, my roommate has one, those too? Nov 09 22:16:02 EdLin: My laptop is very nice.. it's BIOS sucks. Nov 09 22:16:19 let me reword that.. the ACPI support in the BIOS sucks Nov 09 22:16:46 MS actually controls the ACPI with its own propriatary drivers.. and does a very good job. Nov 09 22:16:58 Linux.. yeah.. it doesn't. I have tried every "fix" out there.. Nov 09 22:17:17 atlanta: any comments on the splash screen tips? Nov 09 22:17:18 dBsooner-work: MS embraced and extended ACPI, the spec works fine, but vendors break the spec with MS cooperating on the incompatibilities. Nov 09 22:17:43 dBsooner-work, EdLin: are you guys going to alpha test Preware? Nov 09 22:17:54 The closest I came was Omnibook.. but it caused my WiFi to not work properly 90% of the time (would cause bad tranmissions, extremely slow speed, etc.) I would have to disconnect/reconnect the wifi every 10 mins to make it work right. Nov 09 22:18:25 rwhitby: I'd love to, but I haven't gotten a Palm Pre yet. I'm still on a Centro, playing with the emulator until I decide what new phone to get when my Sprint Premier membership discount starts in a month or two. Nov 09 22:18:44 Omnibook also liked to turn on my laptop after it shuts down.. exactly 3 minutes after power is off, it boots back up. Nov 09 22:18:49 the app catalog gets stuck with a huge yellow triangle that you can't back gesture from Nov 09 22:18:56 I even unloaded the module before shut down.. and still did it. Nov 09 22:19:07 dBsooner-work: that sounds like the "zombie" feature Nov 09 22:19:29 sugardave: yeah.. only way around it was to pull the battery after shutdown Nov 09 22:19:36 awesome Nov 09 22:19:41 DIE DAMMIT! Nov 09 22:19:42 pull it out, put it back in. (kill all power to laptop, causing the timer to die) Nov 09 22:19:44 yeah.. Nov 09 22:19:47 app catalog unavailable, try again Nov 09 22:20:01 So anyway, I am sick of having to "look for a solution" to everything I want to do with my laptop. Nov 09 22:20:12 So i am back to windows where "most solutions" are already there. Nov 09 22:20:29 rwhitby: sure.. what's new? Nov 09 22:20:29 rwhitby: maybe you could tell me what the pros and cons are to getting a Palm Pre vs. Android, though that's probably also off-topic here. ;-) Nov 09 22:21:11 luke kilpatrick did a nice podcast about taht EdLin Nov 09 22:21:27 Robi_: are you suggesting that the app catalog is currently unavailable? Nov 09 22:21:29 Robi_: URL? Nov 09 22:21:35 like, they might be updating apps? Nov 09 22:21:42 the pre still won for him, but there were a few good points for the new droid Nov 09 22:21:57 it's very unfortunate, re: the whole ACPI, bios/MS stuff Nov 09 22:22:03 sugardave: yes and no because i just updated a few other apps w/o issue, i have 4 that i can't update Nov 09 22:22:16 EdLin: sec gotta search my twitter stream Nov 09 22:22:49 lkilpatrick My Follow up post on the review of the Droid VS Palm Pre VS iPhone with @scobleizer http://bit.ly/yKxbV - Cinch http://bit.ly/3wXsGZ Nov 09 22:22:57 I'm actually looking at Pre vs. the Android phones on Sprint, I can't really afford switching to Verizon until my contract is up. Nov 09 22:23:10 you'll pay more for verizon Nov 09 22:23:38 Pre101 Stupid app rejection of the week: http://bit.ly/42YTqp (via @jkira) I think maybe Palm would be more welcoming. Nov 09 22:23:45 I know, I really want to stay with Sprint. Nov 09 22:23:56 patience Nov 09 22:26:38 wow, these guys are rich, they have multiple smartphones. ;-) Nov 09 22:26:48 damn the app catalog. i just updated one and the next fails Nov 09 22:27:03 now i'm stuck with 3 i can't update Nov 09 22:27:24 Robi_: stop breaking the app catalog, I'm hoping my update goes in today Nov 09 22:27:39 it just cance's my download Nov 09 22:27:55 and i have to quit the app Nov 09 22:33:37 egaudet_work: I know. It's very unfortunate. MS has made it very easy for OEM's/BIOS manuf's to ignore ACPI conventions Nov 09 22:34:55 dBsooner-work: emails have been released from Microsoft during the latest antitrust trials that say that when they were making the ACPI implementation on Windows, one of the criterias was "how can we break Linux?" Nov 09 22:35:18 really? Nov 09 22:35:21 yes Nov 09 22:35:24 that's really upsetting. Nov 09 22:35:44 that's Microsoft. They believe in breaking standards for a reason. Nov 09 22:35:49 yup Nov 09 22:35:59 it's part of their business model Nov 09 22:36:44 that's something I like about Apple, they have contributed to a lot of standards and don't do embrace and extend often that I know of. Nov 09 22:36:58 Apple is evil in other ways. ;-) Nov 09 23:00:46 thats od Nov 09 23:00:57 i plugged in my pre and my usb keybord messedu p Nov 09 23:30:58 * rwhitby just got handed an Internation Signature Article card from the post office - may well be my GSM Pre ... Nov 09 23:33:18 but I need to wait 2 hours till the post office gets it back. Nov 09 23:34:04 Congrats rwhitby Nov 09 23:34:16 Just pushed app number 5 up to the app cat. Nov 09 23:34:25 see how long this takes. Nov 09 23:35:46 app cat? where? can i pet it? Nov 09 23:35:52 :) Nov 09 23:36:41 har har hard Nov 09 23:36:48 lol Nov 09 23:36:56 g2g, bbl Nov 09 23:37:04 ok, who is willing to be the lab-test-rat for vocshop games LATEST weird little creation? Nov 09 23:39:49 wow - a report on the forum that the Pixi is live and is updating to 1.3.1 OTA. Nov 09 23:40:37 http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2024292#post2024540 Nov 09 23:41:24 1.3.1 is out?! Nov 09 23:41:45 Mousey: Probibly not for pre's Nov 09 23:41:51 just for pixis i guess... which are not officially out Nov 09 23:42:02 Pixi's can ping the server with a different ID Nov 09 23:42:15 * rwhitby smells a patch in that ... Nov 09 23:42:15 ah Nov 09 23:42:18 I guess you could crack the update app to call saying it's a pixi... Nov 09 23:42:27 sooooooooooo, will we have to epr prior to patch? Nov 09 23:42:29 that would be awsome Nov 09 23:42:35 (feels like a dumb question) Nov 09 23:42:44 s/patch/upgrade/ Nov 09 23:43:01 Mousey: the answer to that question is, was, and always will be: yes. Nov 09 23:43:07 do an update check Nov 09 23:43:27 rwhitby: figured. thanks tho Nov 09 23:43:36 * Mousey did an update check Nov 09 23:43:46 we need a reEPR Nov 09 23:43:51 but.. should check if it's not a Pixi-oriented version of the OS... the pixi has different hardware and therefore differents drivers needed Nov 09 23:51:32 soo.. umm... this browser multi-mod patch is supposed to scroll up a page when i press the shift button, right? Nov 09 23:51:46 'cause it's not doing anything right now... all the other buttons work, tho Nov 09 23:59:37 * rwhitby bbl Nov 10 00:16:19 brainstorm: There should be an "update phone software version" button in preware that runs epr for you, verifies all patches are gone, and then gives you a "safe to update" message that will let the average user feel confident about updating their webos version. Nov 10 00:16:37 It could be combined with the idea of a 'preware profile', that would reinstall your patches after update Nov 10 00:17:19 rwhitby: was it your pre? Nov 10 00:17:37 <_droO> zsoc-yes++ Nov 10 00:17:38 dBsooner-work: won't know for 4 hours - stuck in meetings Nov 10 00:17:47 rwhitby: now that sucks Nov 10 00:17:53 rwhitby: I would skip said meetings for the Pre. Nov 10 00:19:01 zsoc: we were actually looking at making Preware do that anyway. rwhitby was talking about having Preware remember state of installed patches/apps and auto-update/install them after upgrade. Nov 10 00:19:57 Java is platform independent right? I should be able to compile a java service on x86 that works on arm? Nov 10 00:20:32 zsoc: yep Nov 10 00:21:07 rwhitby: any more brainstorms on the idea I just mentioned? Nov 10 00:21:47 Anyone happen to know the debian based package names for the necessary java packages? is it part of javacc? or java-compiler? Nov 10 00:22:16 or java6-sdk? Nov 10 00:24:03 sun-java6 or something Nov 10 00:24:23 err Nov 10 00:24:29 egaudet, ah, sun-java5-jdk it would seem? :> Nov 10 00:24:33 er, java6 Nov 10 00:24:43 on karmic for me the sun jdk wasn't working Nov 10 00:24:50 I installed the uhh other one Nov 10 00:25:05 lol, i don't use karmic, luckily enough Nov 10 00:25:15 seems many things are missing/not working from the karmic repos Nov 10 00:25:26 I _do_ have 1 ubuntu box tho, I use it for some things. Nov 10 00:26:52 egaudet: on karmic sun java6 jdk worked for me Nov 10 00:27:04 but then again, nothing else worked well. But that was hardware releated. Nov 10 00:27:24 sun-java6-jdk: Depends: sun-java6-bin (= 6-15-1) but 6-16-0ubuntu1.9.04 is to be installed Nov 10 00:27:52 .9.04 is not karmic Nov 10 00:27:54 so i quit and got gcj or something else Nov 10 00:27:57 you got repos all messe dup Nov 10 00:28:06 yea I don't care though Nov 10 00:28:14 hate java anyway Nov 10 00:29:30 rwhitby: dwhitman back from work. Got time for some debugging? Nov 10 00:29:58 dwhitman, i think he's in a meeting Nov 10 00:30:20 thanks, zsoc. I'll check back later. Nov 10 00:30:33 dwhitman, what are you debugging? maybe someone else could help? Nov 10 00:31:02 Trouble installing Preware. Long thread of notes w/ rwhitby on precentral Nov 10 00:31:24 Everything looks installed, but ipkg service stops Nov 10 00:33:25 i can see why he'd be interested in debugging it. he probably wants to see live dbus stuff. i could try going through it but would probably fail :< Nov 10 00:33:41 you tried removing/reinstalling the package manager service i suppose right? Nov 10 00:34:12 Thanks anyway. Best if he's at least involved; we've already eliminated a lot of obvious stuff from earlier exchanges. Nov 10 00:34:17 dBsooner-work, how did you get sun jdk in karmic? Nov 10 00:34:22 gotcha gotcha :) sorry you missed him :/ Nov 10 00:34:43 my package manager shows sun-java-6-bin latest version as that 9.04 pacakge Nov 10 00:36:40 egaudet, you might need to activate additional repos? maybe preposed? Nov 10 00:39:43 egaudet: I have no idea. I followed a how to I am sure Nov 10 00:40:09 egaudet: I bet your using the sun repo Nov 10 00:40:19 and if you are, you need to change jaunty to karmic in that repo conf Nov 10 00:40:47 look in my properties for the sun java package under versions it has 6-16-0ubuntu1.9.04 (now) and 6-15-1 (karmic) Nov 10 00:40:51 I think they screwed up not me Nov 10 00:41:03 i am using all the karmic repos Nov 10 00:41:10 already verified in sources.list Nov 10 00:41:32 sun isn't released in the ubuntu repos Nov 10 00:41:34 its in the sun repos Nov 10 00:41:42 ? Nov 10 00:42:15 I don't know what you are saying dBsooner-work Nov 10 00:43:00 neither do I Nov 10 00:43:09 I am pissed at my dispatcher right now Nov 10 00:44:05 lol Nov 10 00:46:53 just did "sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jdk" on my karmic server Nov 10 00:46:58 everything installed just fine Nov 10 00:47:20 6-15-1 is the sun-java6-jdk Nov 10 00:47:31 What's the best way to set a variable via user input from an app, into a script that a java service calls? Like lets say I'm using the IntegerPicker API, and I want to grab that info and export it $MyAppLengthVariable, and then my java service runs a script that includes the same variable.. is that possible? Or does my java service have to run a script to export the variable first? Nov 10 00:47:59 of course that server is i386 Nov 10 00:49:43 did that question make any sense? Nov 10 00:52:28 you'd send whatever you want to the service via a serviceRequest call from mojo Nov 10 00:53:05 then the java service I believe can set the variable in the environment and execute the shell script. I THINK ipkgservice does something like this Nov 10 00:54:13 Yeah I got a javaservice working that runs sh scripts. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to 'pull' the variable from the IntegerPicker API. It's probably something obvious. I should just look at another app that does this (trys to think of one...) Nov 10 00:56:06 serviceRequest is actually pretty nifty Nov 10 00:56:57 zsoc, you don't pull from mojo to shell script Nov 10 00:57:08 and by don't I mean can't Nov 10 00:57:41 you'd do that in the mojo, when the integer picker selects one, then call the serviceRequest and pass a json like "param: value" Nov 10 00:57:42 .... what do you mean? like I need to set variables from mojo to a variable in the service and then have the service set that variable? Nov 10 00:58:12 i see. Nov 10 00:58:17 and the best way to have the service set a variable is... export? Nov 10 00:58:21 look at ipkgservice Nov 10 00:58:25 good idea Nov 10 00:58:55 i know ipkgservice does it for the restart flags in postinst Nov 10 00:59:20 hey all Nov 10 00:59:25 ... where does it get those flags from? packaging standard? Nov 10 01:00:29 what flags? Nov 10 01:00:57 the restart flags thing I was talking abotu Nov 10 01:01:36 is it possible to login to your profile via wifi? Nov 10 01:01:39 is the service sets an env var before calling the postinst script, the postinst script sees it (this is used in postinst to restart luna only when not run from ipkgservice) Nov 10 01:02:25 for your case you'd first want to get some parameter passed from mojo to service. Which is done in parameters: element passed to serviceRequest() Nov 10 01:02:32 parameters: {} is a json Nov 10 01:03:13 then yuor service gets this luna message and parses the json, gets your value out and sets it in an env var, that the shell script would use Nov 10 01:08:06 egaudet, thank you, i'll make sense out of that :) Nov 10 01:08:33 the example services and ipkgservice are good places to learn regarding that stuff Nov 10 01:25:15 anybody know where i can find the quinray activation rom? Nov 10 01:27:53 ok, got it :p Nov 10 01:35:32 This is a ridiculous question... where is the source located for the ipkg manager service? Nov 10 01:41:36 zsoc: in the git... it's probably listed on the preware page on the wiki. Nov 10 01:43:45 i've been poking around the git, but i'll check the page, ty Nov 10 01:44:24 i don't suppose the src is anywhere in the ipk? Nov 10 01:45:42 zsoc: u have a problem using git? Nov 10 01:45:53 OH Nov 10 01:45:56 NOT THE GITWEB Nov 10 01:46:06 Man, I am slow like a noob sometimes. Nov 10 01:48:00 I suppose the gitweb has it too. When I said "poking around git", I was referring to the directory listings at preware.org. I'm confused. Drinking. Tired. And learning new things I shouldn't be taking on, all at the same time :P Nov 10 02:05:41 Query, did the newest perl release (4/11) break irssi? or am I completely nuts and doing something wrong? Nov 10 02:07:17 getting an undefined symbol from le perl destruct level Nov 10 02:14:52 So, is it safe to assume I can use the executeCMD() function created for ipkgservice as long as i use it in something that's GPLv2? Nov 10 02:21:10 I'm also confused about "env.put"... it seems to set a variable, but i'm not quite sure how (see: what i need to import that makes it work) Nov 10 02:27:56 ah, the answer lies in "i know nothing about java". i'll shut up now Nov 10 02:41:00 * oil brb Nov 10 02:42:37 In the world of patches, can someone tell me what this part @@ -94,9 +94,15 @@ means? Nov 10 02:45:27 SirWill, it somehow denotes the location of where the lines following it are located, within the file named prior to it Nov 10 02:46:08 I figured that was the case, was just trying to identify how to find that location manually in a file. Nov 10 02:46:22 I appreciate the answer however Nov 10 02:46:55 SirWill, may I ask why? That doesn't seem necessary for some reason. Nov 10 02:47:21 I mean, diff can make a patch and patch can apply it, aren't those the only 2 things you do with patches? :) Nov 10 02:47:29 I'm trying to adapt patches for 1.3.1 Nov 10 02:47:49 I'm trying to find out where the code was put in to the 1.2.1 patch so I can identify where to put it in the 1.3.1 native code. Nov 10 02:47:56 Oh.... it's probably easier for the maintainer to re-make the patch. Or take the patched file and run diff against the 1.3.1 original Nov 10 02:48:24 so that I can create the file and make the diff. Nov 10 02:48:54 Well it 1) helps to know who the maintainer is, and 2) if the maintainer doesn't have 1.3.1 available yet then they can't exactly update it. ;) Nov 10 02:49:04 I'm trying to do my part to support the community. Nov 10 02:49:24 SirWill, well, you could look at the patch yourself, and look at the minus lines, and find those lines in the 1.3.1 version, and go from there. Nov 10 02:50:23 Yeah, that is the road I'm heading down now. I was just curious if that equated to a certain line number in the file and things like that. Nov 10 02:50:39 Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. Nov 10 02:50:55 SirWill, it probably does, but I'm not sure I've ever ran into anyone that made a manual patch file ;) maybe... Nov 10 02:51:15 Just my 2 cents, I don't know much really. Just know I only make patches with git. Then again, I've only ever patched mutliple files at the same time. Nov 10 02:51:37 which patches are yours? Nov 10 02:53:06 er... none of the ones in the feeds available through preware/WOQI, but if you're interested in seeing backported gstreamer modules, I can show you my work :> Nov 10 02:55:50 SirWill, may i ask what you have worked on? I assume, with 1.3.1 access you have done something interesting :) Nov 10 02:56:54 oil, did you write the executeCMD function? Nov 10 02:57:05 don't assume anything interesting. Because I haven't. I've ported one patch thus far to 1.3.1 I've dabled in a bit, I have nothing in the catalog, or in homebrew. I'm not a programmer YET. Nov 10 02:57:32 Oh... then it's curious you have 1.3.1, but maybe this isn't the place to mention that. Nov 10 02:57:42 As to how I got it, well I asked Chuq VERY nicely. Nov 10 02:57:52 No no, like I said, not the place to mention that. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 10 02:59:57 2009