**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 08 02:59:56 2009
Dec 08 03:00:19 <dBsooner> why only 20?
Dec 08 03:00:23 <rwhitby> egaudet: so does aupt work if you have existing apt patches installed and then update from aupt patches, or do you need to have aupt patches installed?
Dec 08 03:00:26 <dBsooner> it's easy to install a bunch
Dec 08 03:00:41 <dBsooner> AUPT patches installed
Dec 08 03:00:48 <Smubeht> aupt?
Dec 08 03:00:53 <dBsooner> existing APT patches don't have the right PRERM's
Dec 08 03:01:24 <dBsooner> that's why we have to do a mass version bump and hope everyone "updates" their patches BEFORE they upgrade webos
Dec 08 03:01:40 <dBsooner> Smubeht: Auto-Update Patch Technology
Dec 08 03:02:05 <egaudet> you need aupt patches installed because old patches don't have the right prerm
Dec 08 03:02:07 <dBsooner> Smubeht: It's the Predecessor of APT
Dec 08 03:02:16 <rwhitby> successor?
Dec 08 03:02:19 <dBsooner> yes
Dec 08 03:02:23 <dBsooner> successor
Dec 08 03:02:29 <dBsooner> APT is the Predecessor
Dec 08 03:02:41 <dBsooner> because Pre = before
Dec 08 03:02:45 <dBsooner> :D
Dec 08 03:02:56 <dBsooner> (yes, I had it wrong first. .. just covering it up)
Dec 08 03:03:10 <dBsooner> WHAT?!?! ALL MY CONTACTS ARE GONE!
Dec 08 03:03:18 <dBsooner> Dang you Palm Cloud!
Dec 08 03:03:26 <dBsooner> Oh wait.. I use Exchange.
Dec 08 03:03:26 <egaudet> lol
Dec 08 03:03:34 <egaudet> i definitely hate you
Dec 08 03:03:39 <dBsooner> ROFL
Dec 08 03:03:55 <dBsooner> Didn't Brady throw a crappy interception to end the game yesterday?
Dec 08 03:04:00 <egaudet> rwhitby, question will ipkgservice update the webos-patches feed version if it is disabled?
Dec 08 03:04:06 <egaudet> that hurts
Dec 08 03:04:09 <egaudet> that just really really hurts
Dec 08 03:04:11 <dBsooner> Low blow?
Dec 08 03:04:22 <egaudet> definitely! lol
Dec 08 03:05:21 <egaudet> so make sure when you guys doctor to 1.2.1 to install from the webos-patches/testing/1.2.1/ feed
Dec 08 03:05:27 <egaudet> so that you get AUPT patches
Dec 08 03:05:42 <dBsooner> egaudet: Yeah, I know.
Dec 08 03:05:45 <rwhitby> egaudet: yes, ipkgservice updates both enabled and disabled webos-patches feeds
Dec 08 03:05:51 <dBsooner> egaudet: I answered rwhitby's questions before you did. ;)
Dec 08 03:06:19 <dBsooner> Doh! I should have made a dummy account with Palm... it's restoring my crap from the app catalog
Dec 08 03:06:23 <dBsooner> this might take a min
Dec 08 03:07:52 <egaudet> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        31382 Dec  7 22:07 webos-patches.log
Dec 08 03:08:02 <dBsooner> nice!
Dec 08 03:08:07 <dBsooner> 31 KB
Dec 08 03:08:13 <dBsooner> rsync that bad boy
Dec 08 03:08:17 <dBsooner> or ftpput
Dec 08 03:08:19 <dBsooner> or scp
Dec 08 03:08:47 <egaudet> may have to think about a size limit or putting it on /media/internal
Dec 08 03:09:06 <dBsooner> compress it?
Dec 08 03:09:12 <egaudet> over time it could get quite large
Dec 08 03:09:35 <dBsooner> I thought we decided to rotate it based on version
Dec 08 03:09:47 <dBsooner> webos-patches-<version>.log
Dec 08 03:10:23 <rwhitby> it should really be on /media/internal shouldn't it?
Dec 08 03:10:38 <dBsooner> it would be MUCH easier to access by the user
Dec 08 03:10:50 <dBsooner> However, a full erase would whipe it.
Dec 08 03:11:00 <rwhitby> but a doctor wouldn't
Dec 08 03:11:08 <dBsooner> doctor would
Dec 08 03:11:19 <rwhitby> doctor keeps /media/internal now
Dec 08 03:11:23 <dBsooner> really?
Dec 08 03:11:26 <rwhitby> yep
Dec 08 03:11:32 <dBsooner> since the "new" one?
Dec 08 03:11:33 <egaudet> I think I am going to set the --no-backup-if-mismatch option with patch for AUPT
Dec 08 03:11:34 <dBsooner> or since 1.3.1?
Dec 08 03:11:44 <egaudet> so we don't get .orig files
Dec 08 03:12:03 <egaudet> cool
Dec 08 03:12:03 <dBsooner> good idear
Dec 08 03:13:02 <dBsooner> egaudet,rwhitby: samkim asked me to change the title of his latest patch.. What are we going to rule for allowing "title changes"?
Dec 08 03:13:16 <dBsooner> bout time palm backup! sheesh
Dec 08 03:15:03 <rwhitby> heh - wget preware-bootstrap works better when wifi is turned on :-)
Dec 08 03:15:28 <dBsooner> Unless you have CDMA in AU
Dec 08 03:15:38 <dBsooner> preware-bootstrap valid bit.ly now?
Dec 08 03:16:02 <dBsooner> doh! "webos20090606"
Dec 08 03:16:12 <rwhitby> dBsooner: yep
Dec 08 03:17:17 <dBsooner> egaudet: Can I add the SUB_VERSION split with skip build if SUB_VERSION = 99 to the common.mk?
Dec 08 03:17:57 <egaudet> i would rather we get rid of -99 from all building
Dec 08 03:18:01 <dBsooner> (for the -0 run)
Dec 08 03:18:23 <dBsooner> we never really decided what was best earlier.
Dec 08 03:18:30 <dBsooner> just a lot of bantering.
Dec 08 03:18:40 <egaudet> so i'd say don't put the split in because we don't want -99's to build at all
Dec 08 03:19:17 <dBsooner> well, that is what the split would do
Dec 08 03:19:19 <egaudet> IMO it should stop building altogether and save the ipk somewhere,  by -99 something we are for all intents and purposes discontinuing that package permanently
Dec 08 03:19:20 <dBsooner> make it skip the build
Dec 08 03:19:28 <egaudet> the split would only ignore the -0 building
Dec 08 03:19:39 <egaudet> it still needs to build the -99 one time
Dec 08 03:19:49 <dBsooner> not if we don't carry it over
Dec 08 03:20:01 <dBsooner> it will still build VERSIONS = 1.3.1-99
Dec 08 03:20:10 <dBsooner> but just won't build 1.3.2-0
Dec 08 03:20:10 <egaudet> for instance if need to switch autobuilder to backup server
Dec 08 03:20:27 <dBsooner> it will still build 1.3.1-99 in the normal for v in $VERSIONS run
Dec 08 03:20:37 <egaudet> it will have to rebuild EVERYTHING.  -99 is killing a package and thus should be a one time manual build and push to repo in some other place as an ipk
Dec 08 03:20:41 <egaudet> we'll figure that out after
Dec 08 03:20:46 <egaudet> that's my point
Dec 08 03:20:51 <egaudet> I don't want -99 building ever
Dec 08 03:21:22 <egaudet> I want it to be a manual build and push process because it's really just a workaround to take back a package
Dec 08 03:21:38 <egaudet> ok i have 39 patches installed
Dec 08 03:21:40 <dBsooner> grr.. stupid windows 7 and novacom and novaproxy not working
Dec 08 03:21:42 <egaudet> at least one from each category
Dec 08 03:21:44 <egaudet> OTA time?
Dec 08 03:21:59 <egaudet> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root        49986 Dec  7 22:18 webos-patches.log
Dec 08 03:28:50 <oc80> hacker
Dec 08 03:28:55 <oc80> hackery*
Dec 08 03:31:18 <dBsooner> need to remind myself to fix the preware-bootstrap.. if you enable testing feed and there is no ipkgservice ipk returned, it needs to default back to production feed
Dec 08 03:34:59 <rwhitby> heh, just hit that myself.
Dec 08 03:35:18 <dBsooner> if you answer 'no', it works fine
Dec 08 03:35:38 <dBsooner> because ipkgservice doesn't exist in testing feed right now.. so my awk for the Package version fails.
Dec 08 03:36:14 <egaudet> to get echo from bourne shell to go to stderr so preware shows it red, would I do echo "HI" 1>&2
Dec 08 03:36:50 <dBsooner> i think so
Dec 08 03:38:18 <dBsooner> egaudet: knock out some of the whitespace in the .log file
Dec 08 03:38:19 <egaudet> pushed to change return -1 to return 1
Dec 08 03:38:21 <dBsooner> that should save space
Dec 08 03:38:29 <egaudet> and echo error on dummy packages
Dec 08 03:38:54 <egaudet> meh
Dec 08 03:39:01 <egaudet> I rather look at a pretty log file :P
Dec 08 03:39:07 <dBsooner> it's sitll pretty
Dec 08 03:39:13 <dBsooner> just take out some of the line breaks
Dec 08 03:40:26 <dBsooner> so do I need to wait untill the testing feed is rebuilt before I install more patches/OTA to 1.3.1?
Dec 08 03:40:36 <egaudet> ?
Dec 08 03:40:42 <egaudet> testing feed contains 1.2.1 and 1.3.1
Dec 08 03:40:44 <dBsooner> you said you pushed return -1 to return 1
Dec 08 03:40:57 <egaudet> oh yea won't effect anything
Dec 08 03:41:02 <dBsooner> ok
Dec 08 03:41:11 <egaudet> return -1 just gives error message about negative number in return
Dec 08 03:41:18 <dBsooner> ahh
Dec 08 03:42:21 <dBsooner> egaudet: did you happen to "ipkg -o /var list_isntalled > before_ota.log" just for giggles?
Dec 08 03:42:41 <dBsooner> I did.. so I can test the amount of "*patches*" installed.. and compare it to how many are available for update
Dec 08 03:45:47 <egaudet> no i didn't
Dec 08 03:46:31 <egaudet> but now i just did
Dec 08 03:46:57 <rwhitby> egaudet: updating testing feed
Dec 08 03:52:06 <egaudet> so /media/internal/webos-patches.log is good?
Dec 08 03:52:09 <egaudet> I'll change that
Dec 08 03:53:41 <egaudet> pushed
Dec 08 03:54:16 <egaudet> this thing is taking forever to download 1.3.1 update
Dec 08 04:00:47 <dBsooner> there.. I have 45 installed
Dec 08 04:01:25 <dBsooner> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 42768 Dec 7 22:00 /var/log/webos-patches.log
Dec 08 04:04:13 <dBsooner> OTA'ing
Dec 08 04:04:59 <egaudet> I removed some newlines db
Dec 08 04:05:05 <dBsooner> woohoo!
Dec 08 04:05:18 <egaudet> still keeping it pretty
Dec 08 04:05:32 <dBsooner> yeah, with those ----'s you keep it pretty
Dec 08 04:07:04 <dBsooner> root@castle:/tmp# find / -name *.webosinternals.orig | wc -l
Dec 08 04:07:04 <dBsooner> 76
Dec 08 04:08:01 <egaudet> find / -name *.orig| wc -l
Dec 08 04:08:02 <egaudet> bet you have more
Dec 08 04:08:25 <dBsooner> sure do
Dec 08 04:08:27 <dBsooner> 15 more
Dec 08 04:09:54 <egaudet> what a wasate
Dec 08 04:10:01 <egaudet> of space
Dec 08 04:10:01 <dBsooner> ?
Dec 08 04:10:05 <egaudet> those will never be removed by anyone
Dec 08 04:10:10 <dBsooner> all the .orig's
Dec 08 04:10:12 <egaudet> yea
Dec 08 04:10:17 <dBsooner> are those installed by us?
Dec 08 04:10:22 <egaudet> auto created by patch
Dec 08 04:10:25 <dBsooner> yeah
Dec 08 04:10:28 <dBsooner> that's what I thought
Dec 08 04:10:35 <egaudet> that's why I need to put --no-backup-if-mismatch
Dec 08 04:10:57 <dBsooner> yeah
Dec 08 04:11:09 <dBsooner> half way done downloading update
Dec 08 04:11:18 <egaudet> almost done validating update
Dec 08 04:12:34 <egaudet> 1.3.1 "install now"
Dec 08 04:14:47 <dBsooner> validating..
Dec 08 04:18:27 <dBsooner> installing.. brb
Dec 08 04:21:21 <eekfuh> who knows how to get Mojo logging working on a device
Dec 08 04:28:03 <rick_home> why do people ask a question and then leave before anyone has a chance to answer.
Dec 08 04:28:08 <rick_home> that's just rude.
Dec 08 04:31:41 <zsoc> rick_home: he's a troll, it's better no one is around
Dec 08 04:38:25 <rwhitby> dBsooner: what's a patch that applied on 1.2.1 but needed changing for 1.3.1 ?
Dec 08 04:43:49 <egaudet> this confirmation dialog certainly is cumbersome for testing :P
Dec 08 04:44:13 <rwhitby> good thing we're getting rid of it with package signing ...
Dec 08 04:44:39 <egaudet> conf. dialog is going away after signing?  Awesome
Dec 08 04:44:55 <rwhitby> for trusted signed packages, yes.
Dec 08 04:45:38 <rwhitby> so, we need an example of a patch in 1.2.1 which is not in 1.3.1, and an example of a patch that changed from 1.2.1 to 1.3.1
Dec 08 04:46:08 <egaudet> character counter = not in 1.3.1
Dec 08 04:47:22 <egaudet> nvm
Dec 08 04:47:39 <JayCanuck> anyone know the mexican Pre's webosdoctor url?
Dec 08 04:47:47 <sryan> Hey is it possible to make a patch that allows palms built in task app to sync with google's tasks? (i know i've asked this before but I never got an answer)
Dec 08 04:48:14 <rwhitby> it's linux, anything is possible
Dec 08 04:48:23 <egaudet> hmm
Dec 08 04:48:49 <egaudet> a lot of patches are -0 for valid versions
Dec 08 04:48:59 <egaudet> but none of those got built
Dec 08 04:49:04 <egaudet> because the dummy package was built first
Dec 08 04:49:23 <egaudet> so we need to mass bump the major_upgrade branch and rebuild to test feed
Dec 08 04:49:48 <rwhitby> egaudet: will a clobber and rebuild work instead?
Dec 08 04:49:53 <egaudet> no
Dec 08 04:50:18 <egaudet> because -0 is built for dummy packages on every package first.  Then the idea is that all real packages start at least at -1
Dec 08 04:50:40 <egaudet> since a lot of real ones are at -0, it tries to build and sees nothing to be done since dummy package already built with -0
Dec 08 04:50:46 <rwhitby> ah
Dec 08 04:51:06 <rwhitby> egaudet: I'll be out for a while - upgrading my laptop to 8GB
Dec 08 04:51:27 <egaudet> ok, I'll try to get these versions bumped before going to sleep
Dec 08 04:51:31 <rwhitby> ok
Dec 08 04:51:42 <egaudet> dBsooner, ping
Dec 08 04:56:06 <mikepre> i just created a patch file to include some email changes that I liked into one patch, i have a 2 questions, after applying it, in preware, how do I get an email image for it, and secondly, how do i get it on the pre-ware webos list?
Dec 08 04:56:27 <mikepre> i jused JayCanucks unified diff tool to create them and then joined them into one patch
Dec 08 04:56:48 <JayCanuck> hi mikepre
Dec 08 04:57:39 <mikepre> hi Jay
Dec 08 04:57:51 <mikepre> i think my joining issue was related to my editor...
Dec 08 05:00:02 <acydlord> JayCanuck, do you still need webos doctor for the mexico pres?
Dec 08 05:00:13 <JayCanuck> yea
Dec 08 05:00:19 <JayCanuck> webosdoctor url
Dec 08 05:00:19 <zsoc> the mexico president?
Dec 08 05:00:29 <acydlord> http://www.palm.com/us/support/downloads/pre/recoverytool/webosdoctor_dl_telcel_es.html
Dec 08 05:00:36 <acydlord> thats the page on palm's site its on
Dec 08 05:01:51 <JayCanuck> yea, I need the direct download url
Dec 08 05:02:23 <acydlord> give me a few minutes and ill get that
Dec 08 05:02:29 <JayCanuck> it's found within the .jnlp file :)
Dec 08 05:07:09 <mikepre> was wondering where the direct URL was....thanks for info
Dec 08 05:13:41 <egaudet> rwhitby, pushed
Dec 08 05:20:34 <acydlord> hmm, no luck trying to download the telcel jnlp file, think someone at palm would be willing to provide it?
Dec 08 05:22:49 <egaudet> dBsooner, btw we put all the obsolete ones as VERSION = rather than VERSIONS = and we skip the dummy package building so it's all good
Dec 08 05:23:27 <egaudet> dBsooner, do we want to make top-bar-increase-font-size obsolete package -99 (it's -19 right now)?
Dec 08 05:27:21 <egaudet> pushed updated remaining VERSION = to VERSIONS = (except obsolete will stay with VERSION =)
Dec 08 05:36:52 <egaudet> added --no-backup-if-mismatch, pushed
Dec 08 05:38:14 <egaudet> I'll finish removing my patches after new versions are built to test feed.  Going to bed now.  dBsooner I'd wait for rwhitby to rebuild to test feed to continue testing
Dec 08 06:39:43 <Guest12478> yo
Dec 08 07:24:14 <lingfish> Sweet.... I can finally see the App Catalog!
Dec 08 07:24:18 <lingfish> So can another Aussie
Dec 08 07:24:22 <lingfish> only 5 apps tho
Dec 08 08:56:19 <JayCanuck> hi alll
Dec 08 10:58:31 <rwhitby> dBsooner: updated patch testing feed is pushed
Dec 08 11:17:45 <EdLin> I'm on OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard), I'm trying to run novaterm for the first time. My device is in developer mode, hooked up via USB in charge mode, but no joy.
Dec 08 11:18:07 <EdLin> I'm on OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard), I'm trying to run novaterm for the first time. My device is in developer mode, hooked up via USB in charge mode, but no joy.
Dec 08 11:24:57 <rwhitby> EdLin: I run the SDK on 10.6 all the time.
Dec 08 11:25:27 <rwhitby> EdLin: what steps did you follow to install the SDK?
Dec 08 11:50:06 <istojic> EdLin: try another USB port, seriously. i'm on 10.5.8, but same issue until i (really, i swear) connected the pre to another USB port :-(
Dec 08 12:05:47 <EdLin> istojic: yup, I tried that and it worked. :)
Dec 08 12:05:50 <EdLin> istojic: I have installed now the optware so I can ssh into it. :)
Dec 08 12:06:23 <istojic> EdLin: phew, and i thought i had the only dud macbook in the world :-/
Dec 08 12:07:22 <istojic> btw, i don't really mind using novaterm to mess with my pre, it's just that novaterm's terminal emulation is fubar. can't press enter when i "less" files...
Dec 08 12:07:50 <EdLin> istojic: I mind because I only have one microUSB cable and I want it plugged into my touchstone.
Dec 08 12:08:01 <EdLin> istojic: I'm buying a second cable tho
Dec 08 12:08:28 <istojic> don't get me started on microUSB...
Dec 08 12:08:31 * istojic fumes slightly
Dec 08 12:08:52 <EdLin> hey, it could be worse, they could use a propritary connector.
Dec 08 12:09:59 <rwhitby> EdLin: did you use the optware bootstrap script, or install via preware?
Dec 08 13:12:05 <istojic> i know it's not really an internals question, but #webos seems to be sleeping... is anyone using WebView's webViewUrlChanged event?
Dec 08 13:13:55 <istojic> btw, i got the answer to my missing memory after a wipe... it seems that i've forgotten that i've metadoctored my webOS installation so the 2gb went to /var :-D whoops...
Dec 08 13:14:42 <nonlocal> won't be needing that come 1.3.5
Dec 08 13:15:26 <istojic> i know, but well... it ain't here yet, is it?
Dec 08 13:16:59 <nonlocal> nope
Dec 08 14:35:27 <Ortwin_Pre> I can't update my Popelli Reader. Preware thinks there is a checksum mismatch...
Dec 08 14:42:57 <obladda> Ortwin_Pre: uninstall and reinstall
Dec 08 14:43:44 <dBsooner> rwhitby: are you gone?
Dec 08 14:43:50 <dBsooner> ~seen rwhitby
Dec 08 14:43:53 <infobot> rwhitby is currently on #webos-internals #oe #nslu2-linux. Has said a total of 80 messages. Is idling for 2h 33m 54s, last said: 'EdLin: did you use the optware bootstrap script, or install via preware?'.
Dec 08 14:47:49 <Ortwin_Pre> obladda: Reinstall fails with the same md5sum mismatch.
Dec 08 14:50:56 <dBsooner> Ortwin_Pre: update feeds
Dec 08 14:51:28 <Ortwin_Pre> Already did that a few times. Will try again.
Dec 08 14:58:18 <Ortwin_Pre> Updating feeds doesn't help. I suppose the package is really broken.
Dec 08 15:03:17 <dBsooner> egaudet: I fell asleep last night, but it seems it was a good thing
Dec 08 15:03:19 <dBsooner> I read the backlog
Dec 08 15:03:51 <dBsooner> did you use my mass_ver_bump on the testing feed?
Dec 08 15:03:56 <dBsooner> major_upgrade branch..
Dec 08 15:09:09 <dBsooner> nope, you just bumped all the 0's to 1's. So when we do the mass ver bump, all the 1's wil become 2's. :D
Dec 08 15:21:24 <dBsooner> egaudet: updated webospatchupload.php (form) to only output "VERSIONS =" and to include a note about screenshots.
Dec 08 15:30:35 <JayCanuck> hi all
Dec 08 15:45:59 <Ron001> how is it possible that I installed an app with ipkg and its not showing up with "ipkg list > list.txt"?  I can't find it to delete it.  Its the beta of the youview app.
Dec 08 15:46:35 <dBsooner> Ron001: how long ago did you install it?
Dec 08 15:46:40 <dBsooner> Ron001: maybe it was deleted?
Dec 08 15:46:56 <Ron001> but it is in the launcber
Dec 08 15:46:59 <Ron001> launcher
Dec 08 15:47:04 <dBsooner> and to see what you have INSTALLED you do: "ipkg -o /var list_installed"
Dec 08 15:47:12 <dBsooner> list just shows you what is available
Dec 08 15:47:23 <dBsooner> Ron001: Deleted from the Feed.. not from your phone.
Dec 08 15:48:00 <dBsooner> Good morning JayCanuck.
Dec 08 15:48:50 <Ron001> there it is, it shouldnt change my ability to remove it though, right? perhaps I typed it wrong...
Dec 08 15:49:49 <dBsooner> Ron001: "list_installed" shows everything you have installed on your phone.. "list" shows everything in the REPO that you can install.
Dec 08 15:51:03 <Ron001> is my syntax correct?   ipkg remove com.gosyntactix.beta.youview - 0.1.14
Dec 08 15:55:27 <DarkSpecter> Ron001: why dont you simply use orange + launcher icon ?
Dec 08 15:56:04 <Ron001> the delete button doesnt show up when installed that way
Dec 08 15:56:16 <dBsooner> Ron001: yes it does
Dec 08 15:56:28 <dBsooner> hold the orange button and tap on the launcher icon
Dec 08 15:56:52 <dBsooner> if it doesn't, your syntax is incorrect
Dec 08 15:57:02 <dBsooner> ipkg -o /var remove com.gosyntactix.beta.youview
Dec 08 15:58:17 <Ron001> strange, that wasn't there before!  Thanks.  I must be staying up too late.
Dec 08 16:03:43 <egaudet_work> dBsooner
Dec 08 16:03:49 <egaudet_work> how has testing gone?
Dec 08 16:04:02 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: I posted to you.
Dec 08 16:04:05 <dBsooner> scroll up
Dec 08 16:04:06 <dBsooner> or read log
Dec 08 16:04:12 <dBsooner> about an hour ago
Dec 08 16:04:17 <dBsooner> and JayCanuck is here
Dec 08 16:04:23 <dBsooner> we are talkinga bout WQI and AUPT
Dec 08 16:04:41 <egaudet_work> I can't scroll up
Dec 08 16:04:50 <egaudet_work> because there is no backlog here at work where I signed in 10 minutes ago
Dec 08 16:05:47 <egaudet_work> and the log containing anything since I was last on last night isn't up yet
Dec 08 16:05:56 <dBsooner> sure it is
Dec 08 16:06:23 <dBsooner> http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/webos-internals.txt
Dec 08 16:06:28 <dBsooner> that's the live log.. up to the second
Dec 08 16:06:48 <egaudet_work> oh i didn't know about that
Dec 08 16:06:53 <egaudet_work> brb
Dec 08 16:07:00 <dBsooner> read it.. it was 2 hours ago
Dec 08 16:07:08 <dBsooner> err 1 hour ago
Dec 08 16:07:11 <dBsooner> exactly 1 hour ago
Dec 08 16:10:13 <egaudet_work> basically you put VERSIONS =
Dec 08 16:10:16 <egaudet_work> in php script
Dec 08 16:12:25 <egaudet_work> so far I haven't had any issues removing anything after OTA
Dec 08 16:19:01 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, I also see no talk about QI and AUPT in the log?
Dec 08 16:19:37 <dBsooner> JayCanuck: Is there a way you can get a list of all the -1+'s and then compare that to the list of -0's.. Then list all the ones that ONLY HAVE -0's so the user can "remove" them.. That's the whole point of the -0's. To get the user to remove them.
Dec 08 16:19:48 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: It was via pm.
Dec 08 16:20:06 <dBsooner> I'll pastebin it..
Dec 08 16:20:56 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: http://webos.pastebin.com/d765c820d
Dec 08 16:21:30 <egaudet_work> i dunno if you want to pastebin pm's, people usually PM for private message :P
Dec 08 16:21:38 <egaudet_work> but since ya already did, I'll go read
Dec 08 16:22:55 <dBsooner> it was nothing that couldn't be read publically
Dec 08 16:22:56 <JayCanuck> wait, so the user has to manually unistall the -0 packages after each update?
Dec 08 16:23:01 <dBsooner> just let me know when you are done and I will delete it
Dec 08 16:23:40 <dBsooner> JayCanuck: Yes. They see a -0 package as an "update" to their currently installed package. And it tells them to "remove this package because it is not currently available for this version of webOS"
Dec 08 16:24:00 <dBsooner> but if a -1 or greater exists of that packageid, they will NOT see the -0
Dec 08 16:24:00 <egaudet_work> -0 is reserved for dummy pacakge (unavailable for that webos version)
Dec 08 16:24:33 <dBsooner> OH.. and something you might enjoy: We created a "log" file for all patch isntall/removes
Dec 08 16:24:41 <JayCanuck> hmm
Dec 08 16:24:52 <dBsooner> everything done by postinst/prerm is in /media/internal/webos-patches.log
Dec 08 16:24:57 <JayCanuck> current wosqi doesn't handle updates
Dec 08 16:25:00 <JayCanuck> *currently
Dec 08 16:25:18 <JayCanuck> (more accurately, the tweaks section doesn'r)
Dec 08 16:27:04 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: To answer you from earlier.. yes PHP file outputs VERSIONS = only now to the Makefile, instead of VERSION or VERSIONS
Dec 08 16:27:32 <egaudet_work> Note that the major point of AUPT is that a patch can be uninstalled after an update
Dec 08 16:27:48 <dBsooner> That's what I said.
Dec 08 16:27:57 <egaudet_work> the -0's are there for installers that support showing package updates as a courtesy to the user to let them know to uninstall it.
Dec 08 16:28:17 <egaudet_work> I still would rather people wipe their patches prior to updating but we know many will not
Dec 08 16:29:24 <JayCanuck> I guess after every time the repo is parsed, I can check each package in the backups file to see if the current repo version is -0
Dec 08 16:29:46 <JayCanuck> and also hide -0 downloads in the repo tab
Dec 08 16:30:20 <egaudet_work> would it be easier to add update support
Dec 08 16:30:22 <dBsooner> -0's are there for the user to be able to REMOVE the isntalled pacakge
Dec 08 16:30:50 <egaudet_work> so as to not possibly have to chase a moving bar, as I can't guarantee -0 will always be used in this manner
Dec 08 16:30:57 <dBsooner> well.. let me rephrase that.. -0's are there for users to KNOW to remove the installed package
Dec 08 16:31:26 <JayCanuck> yea, that's what I meant
Dec 08 16:31:27 <dBsooner> If no greater version # exists for that pacakge (-1, -2, -3, etc)
Dec 08 16:31:52 <dBsooner> brb, real work
Dec 08 16:32:08 <JayCanuck> upon repo scanning, if the package is in backups, and the version on-feed is -0, the automatically uninstall it
Dec 08 16:32:48 <dBsooner> without telling the user? :D
Dec 08 16:33:06 <dBsooner> you mean "on-feed" = "in Packages.gz"?
Dec 08 16:33:15 <JayCanuck> yea
Dec 08 16:33:19 <dBsooner> ok
Dec 08 16:33:25 <egaudet_work> "package is in backups" ?
Dec 08 16:33:26 <JayCanuck> I use the Packages file, actually
Dec 08 16:33:33 <dBsooner> ahh
Dec 08 16:33:37 <dBsooner> no uncompressing
Dec 08 16:33:38 <dBsooner> brb
Dec 08 16:34:02 <JayCanuck> meant packages file, egaudet
Dec 08 16:38:42 <egaudet_work> I don't think installers should treat -0's specially.  AUPT will be currently building them specially, but it's all to follow the existing packaging standards
Dec 08 16:39:48 <JayCanuck> what if the user chooses not to run the postinst/prerm script though?
Dec 08 16:40:07 <egaudet_work> then they can't install/remove the package unless they do
Dec 08 16:40:13 <egaudet_work> ?
Dec 08 16:40:17 <JayCanuck> wosqi lets them
Dec 08 16:40:30 <egaudet_work> uhh
Dec 08 16:41:06 <egaudet_work> That is a very advanced thing to do and should be made sure to only be used when you know what is going on
Dec 08 16:41:22 <JayCanuck> I have a popup
Dec 08 16:41:53 <egaudet_work> Popups are very frequently ignored, read quickly etc...
Dec 08 16:42:06 <egaudet_work> You can get into some bad situations when users mistakenly do this
Dec 08 16:42:21 <JayCanuck> I've heard of not yet
Dec 08 16:42:28 <JayCanuck> *none
Dec 08 16:42:38 <egaudet_work> if a package is uninstalled without running prerm, the prerm is gone and that is the ONLY thing that knows of (supposed to know of) what the postinst did
Dec 08 16:43:02 <egaudet_work> you may not hear of it because the symptoms will be very odd symptoms and rarely will the user be able to connect it back to that
Dec 08 16:45:09 <gkatsev> also, most users that would use WQI most likely know what they are doing, no?
Dec 08 16:45:28 <egaudet_work> no
Dec 08 16:45:42 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 08 16:46:13 <egaudet_work> users in general don't know what they are doing
Dec 08 16:46:14 <JayCanuck> how would you suggest alerting users, if apparently they can't read text?
Dec 08 16:46:25 <JayCanuck> some for of pictograph system? ;)
Dec 08 16:46:31 <gkatsev> bright flashing colors
Dec 08 16:46:32 <egaudet_work> a big red stop sign :P
Dec 08 16:46:35 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 16:46:44 <egaudet_work> well I mean I don't know when/how you get this popup with QI
Dec 08 16:47:41 <egaudet_work> I think it would be best to be an advanced/hidden feature, in an area of QI that let's a user know this is for experts or you better know what youa re doing
Dec 08 16:48:15 <egaudet_work> it's just scary to me at the thought of losing the prerm so easily, but I guess users can do that with partial/full erase as well
Dec 08 16:48:55 <egaudet_work> anywho, how does that fit into the AUPT discussion?  or was it just a side thought
Dec 08 16:49:09 <JayCanuck> side thought mostly
Dec 08 16:50:28 <egaudet_work> so not running prerm should not be needed in AUPT.  It may have been OK to do when patches were overwritten by an OTA and the ipkg data for the patch just needed to be removed, but prerm will still allow the ipkg removal after an OTA now
Dec 08 16:59:33 <dBsooner> JayCanuck: Can you explain how your popup works? Does it come up when the user hits install/remove and asks them if they want to run the script?
Dec 08 16:59:52 <JayCanuck> yea
Dec 08 17:00:10 <JayCanuck> 'm altering it as we speak to work as you've said
Dec 08 17:00:25 <dBsooner> so if they say "no" it just removed the package without running the script?
Dec 08 17:00:39 <JayCanuck> yea
Dec 08 17:00:47 <JayCanuck> I assume returncode 0 is the qualifier for ipkg script success eh?
Dec 08 17:01:04 <egaudet_work> yep
Dec 08 17:01:17 <egaudet_work> well the script returns 0
Dec 08 17:01:19 <JayCanuck> k, current build now follows that
Dec 08 17:01:20 <egaudet_work> on success
Dec 08 17:01:36 <egaudet_work> current build now always runs the script or?
Dec 08 17:01:43 * dBsooner thinks my support mailbox just got A LOT smaller..
Dec 08 17:02:17 <JayCanuck> current build will not uninstall/install without ipkg script success
Dec 08 17:03:02 <egaudet_work> for install, the postinst is run after the package is installed, so a failure there still leaves the package installed unless you specifically remove it as well I believe
Dec 08 17:03:14 <JayCanuck> yea, I've taken that into account
Dec 08 17:03:18 <egaudet_work> cool
Dec 08 17:03:40 <egaudet_work> as for users not running them, I still think there can be value in that in some more hidden expert menu or something
Dec 08 17:03:59 <egaudet_work> something that the user CAN do but have to go out of their way to ensure they know why they are doing it ya know
Dec 08 17:04:07 <dBsooner> but really with the new AUPT, it would be very rare a user SHOULD do that.
Dec 08 17:05:22 <egaudet_work> yea in general users won't need to, although in rare cases to recover people I've had to instruct manual ipkg removal.  It's one of those things 99% you should never need
Dec 08 17:05:23 <JayCanuck> k, so does -0 packages do anything other that work as a flag for installers to uninstall the package id?
Dec 08 17:05:44 <JayCanuck> (and other than giving the not available message)
Dec 08 17:06:24 <JayCanuck> ?
Dec 08 17:06:55 <egaudet_work> the -0 packages in AUPT are currently built as an ipk with a postinst that echos not available and then returns 1
Dec 08 17:07:56 <JayCanuck> k, ty :)
Dec 08 17:08:10 <dBsooner> because (with Preware) the user CANNOT INSTALL -0 package without uninstalling their <oldversion>-<subversion> package
Dec 08 17:08:33 <egaudet_work> so if user has 1.2.1-20 installed, then OTA to 1.3.1 and it hasn't been ported yet they will see an update to 1.3.1-0.  If they read package description they see it is not available and can uninstall.  If they update (if/when installers support updating of patches, which none do yet) then the postinst will fail and the end result it not installed anymore
Dec 08 17:09:06 <dBsooner> and that "removeal of the old" will run the PRERM that blows out the backups if the md5sum of the orig file matches the md5sum of the stock file in /usr/lib/ipkg/info/md5sumjs
Dec 08 17:10:06 <JayCanuck> makes sense
Dec 08 17:12:11 <JayCanuck> how is it handled for updates that aren't dummies, after OTA update
Dec 08 17:13:05 <egaudet_work> whether a dummy or not, the package is seen as update because patch versions start with webos version
Dec 08 17:13:54 <egaudet_work> so 1.2.1-20 is installed and then they OTA to 1.3.1 and it's been ported already so they see an update to 1.3.1-4 for instance, they update which is a remove then install
Dec 08 17:14:44 <JayCanuck> oh, so all patch ipk install now remove then apply, rather than installing over?
Dec 08 17:14:51 <dBsooner> and same logic.. user will "uninstall" the old package (which runs the PRERM and SHOULD blow out the backups.. ), then they will be able to actually INSTALL the new package (*_1.3.5-1_all.ipk, for example).
Dec 08 17:15:04 <egaudet_work> stupid netsplits
Dec 08 17:15:11 <dBsooner> damnit Freenode!
Dec 08 17:15:17 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 17:15:17 <egaudet_work> no they don't remove then apply
Dec 08 17:15:28 <egaudet_work> I'm saying the only supported "update" of a patch ipk currently is remove and then install
Dec 08 17:15:40 <egaudet_work> And no installers that I know of do this automatically
Dec 08 17:16:19 <egaudet_work> but AUPT is still in the works, and none of this is set in stone yet
Dec 08 17:16:36 <egaudet_work> already I'm starting to think of the holes that OTA can still cause troubles with
Dec 08 17:16:48 <dBsooner> and all patches have always been REMOVE then INSTALL
Dec 08 17:16:52 <dBsooner> they never installed over the top
Dec 08 17:17:03 <egaudet_work> now I think postinst might have to do a check for md5sum
Dec 08 17:17:19 <egaudet_work> postinst: if file is md5sum stock then blow away the backup and re-backup
Dec 08 17:17:49 <dBsooner> oh.. if the backup already exists
Dec 08 17:17:54 <dBsooner> as if it never got removed for some wierd reason
Dec 08 17:17:54 <egaudet_work> yea
Dec 08 17:18:00 <dBsooner> good thought
Dec 08 17:18:04 <egaudet_work> but I guess that doesn't make sense
Dec 08 17:18:22 <egaudet_work> if the files are stock md5sum that means the package was overwritten and the backups are gone
Dec 08 17:18:27 <dBsooner> well if a Prerm didn't get run..
Dec 08 17:18:38 <dBsooner> then the .webosinternals.orig might sitll exist
Dec 08 17:18:40 <egaudet_work> but then again, they could have made a backup from a modified file, then repair utility it and then touch it again
Dec 08 17:19:04 <dBsooner> no think this: I install patch..
Dec 08 17:19:05 <egaudet_work> if a prerm didn't get run it will exist but the file not stock, but then repair utility could get it stock i guess
Dec 08 17:19:13 <egaudet_work> so hmm yea I think it would be good to put in postinst
Dec 08 17:19:14 <dBsooner> no think:
Dec 08 17:19:19 <dBsooner> I install patch
Dec 08 17:19:25 <dBsooner> remove package.. but not run prerm
Dec 08 17:19:36 <dBsooner> so patch is still applied AND .orig still there
Dec 08 17:19:38 <dBsooner> I OTA
Dec 08 17:19:52 <dBsooner> patch is no longer applied because the stock file is not in palce
Dec 08 17:19:58 <dBsooner> but the .orig file will still be there
Dec 08 17:20:09 <egaudet_work> so that package was not updated by OTA
Dec 08 17:20:11 <dBsooner> so postinst won't try to back it up
Dec 08 17:20:14 <dBsooner> yes it was
Dec 08 17:20:18 <egaudet_work> then the backup file is still good
Dec 08 17:20:18 <dBsooner> OTA doesn't DELETE the directory
Dec 08 17:20:28 <egaudet_work> if it was updated by OTA then orig file is gone
Dec 08 17:20:35 <dBsooner> how?
Dec 08 17:20:35 <egaudet_work> it overwrites the whole thing
Dec 08 17:20:41 <dBsooner> not that I was aware
Dec 08 17:20:46 <egaudet_work> I thought
Dec 08 17:20:49 * dBsooner runs to look at his pre..
Dec 08 17:20:55 <dBsooner> because it has packages applied
Dec 08 17:21:10 <dBsooner> stand by
Dec 08 17:21:17 <egaudet_work> I thought updates in OTA was complete move of package directory over it
Dec 08 17:21:19 <egaudet_work> not file by file
Dec 08 17:21:31 <dBsooner> i am checking now
Dec 08 17:21:37 <dBsooner> because I havne;'t started removing packages yet
Dec 08 17:21:47 <dBsooner> so my last step was OTA to 1.3.1 with 45 patches installed
Dec 08 17:24:52 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, I take it your find is not finding anything
Dec 08 17:25:50 <dBsooner> nope
Dec 08 17:25:56 <dBsooner> no
Dec 08 17:26:01 <dBsooner> I had to install terminal
Dec 08 17:26:06 <dBsooner> wc -l was: 91
Dec 08 17:26:10 <dBsooner> 91 .orig files
Dec 08 17:26:19 <dBsooner> so YOU were wrong
Dec 08 17:26:19 <dBsooner> I was right.
Dec 08 17:26:26 <dBsooner> OTA DOES NOT erase entire dir
Dec 08 17:26:29 <dBsooner> it's file by file
Dec 08 17:26:36 <dBsooner> which is what I thought it would do
Dec 08 17:26:51 <dBsooner> I had 76 .webosinternals.orig files BEFORE OTA.. and 76 AFTER OTA
Dec 08 17:27:01 <dBsooner> I had 91 *.orig and 91 *.orig after
Dec 08 17:27:14 <egaudet_work> lies
Dec 08 17:27:21 <dBsooner> Nope
Dec 08 17:27:24 <egaudet_work> lies!
Dec 08 17:27:25 <dBsooner> I would not lie about this
Dec 08 17:27:43 <dBsooner> If I had SSH enabled over ppp0, I would show you in copy/paste
Dec 08 17:27:49 <egaudet_work> ok so postinst gets md5sum check tonight
Dec 08 17:27:54 <dBsooner> sure does
Dec 08 17:28:27 <dBsooner> it needs to remove the backup if the orig file md5sums to stock
Dec 08 17:28:30 <dBsooner> and re-backup
Dec 08 17:28:31 * xaiki always wandered why the patching system doesn't use git.
Dec 08 17:28:54 <egaudet_work> and then that should resolve the issue of people NOT removing some patches, OTA and then installing some.  EPR will still be safe
Dec 08 17:29:20 <dBsooner> yes
Dec 08 17:29:26 <dBsooner> in theory
Dec 08 17:29:28 <dBsooner> :D
Dec 08 17:29:54 <dBsooner> ok..
Dec 08 17:30:14 <dBsooner> so what happens if I were to install a package right now that modifies a file that has a backup?
Dec 08 17:30:24 <egaudet_work> right now?
Dec 08 17:30:26 <dBsooner> yeah
Dec 08 17:30:33 <egaudet_work> it would keep the backup
Dec 08 17:30:34 <egaudet_work> and modify the file
Dec 08 17:30:42 <egaudet_work> and EPR would recover an old backup
Dec 08 17:30:43 <dBsooner> and then I try to remove that package..
Dec 08 17:30:47 <dBsooner> YEP
Dec 08 17:31:00 <dBsooner> I think I just completed getting what you said earlier.
Dec 08 17:31:01 <egaudet_work> but once this is added, then your install would have fixed the backup
Dec 08 17:31:04 <egaudet_work> and EPR is safe again
Dec 08 17:31:05 <dBsooner> My brain had both thoughts in my head
Dec 08 17:31:13 <egaudet_work> :p
Dec 08 17:31:21 <dBsooner> but didn't connect the dots
Dec 08 17:31:43 <dBsooner> So would there ever be a situation a file would NOT be stock and the backup already exist?
Dec 08 17:31:57 <egaudet_work> manual modificatinos
Dec 08 17:32:00 <egaudet_work> modifications*
Dec 08 17:32:06 <dBsooner> which would then..
Dec 08 17:32:10 <dBsooner> postinst wouldn't re-backup
Dec 08 17:32:17 <dBsooner> and EPR would restore old
Dec 08 17:32:22 <egaudet_work> right
Dec 08 17:32:30 <dBsooner> buyt manual mods are "out of scope"
Dec 08 17:32:35 <egaudet_work> and then you have to repair utility
Dec 08 17:32:54 <dBsooner> JayCanuck: how does copy/paste patching work in WQI?
Dec 08 17:32:59 <egaudet_work> so if you want to touch files out of AUPT scope then don't expect AUPT recovery stuff (EPR) to work perfectly
Dec 08 17:33:11 <dBsooner> does that come across to us as a "manual mod", egaudet_workj?
Dec 08 17:33:12 <JayCanuck> copy/paste patching?
Dec 08 17:33:30 <egaudet_work> I think he means drag and drop
Dec 08 17:33:32 <dBsooner> a user just installing a .patch file
Dec 08 17:33:35 <dBsooner> yeah.. drag and drop
Dec 08 17:33:39 <JayCanuck> oh
Dec 08 17:33:50 <JayCanuck> I manually create all the files
Dec 08 17:34:21 <JayCanuck> ipkg files get created to mimic package installation
Dec 08 17:34:39 <dBsooner> using our postinst/prerm's?
Dec 08 17:34:43 <dBsooner> or ones you created?
Dec 08 17:34:47 <JayCanuck> no postinst
Dec 08 17:34:53 <JayCanuck> and a modified prerm
Dec 08 17:35:22 <JayCanuck> hi chuq
Dec 08 17:35:33 <dBsooner> chuqui: Go away.
Dec 08 17:35:37 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 17:35:45 <dBsooner> chuqui: We are discussing NDA stuff.. sheesh.
Dec 08 17:35:58 <egaudet_work> JayCanuck, no postinst?  So you mimic APT via QI without a postinst then?
Dec 08 17:36:11 <chuqui> hang on. I'll go stuff carrots in my ears... <stuff>carrots</stuff>
Dec 08 17:36:24 <chuqui> WHAT?
Dec 08 17:36:25 <chuqui> HUH?
Dec 08 17:36:33 <dBsooner> chuqui: But you don't HEAR us.. you are READING us..
Dec 08 17:36:37 <JayCanuck> I guess you could put it like that
Dec 08 17:36:39 <dBsooner> you meant cucumbers over your eyes
Dec 08 17:36:54 <chuqui> (scuttles behind potted palm)
Dec 08 17:37:11 <chuqui> oh, and good morning, all. thanks for making me so welcome here!
Dec 08 17:37:20 <chuqui> WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU
Dec 08 17:37:32 <egaudet_work> JayCanuck, modified prerm ?
Dec 08 17:37:54 <egaudet_work> waht are the drag+drop patch package ids and category/package metadata?
Dec 08 17:38:21 <JayCanuck> package metadata is optionally parsed from within the patch itself
Dec 08 17:38:37 <JayCanuck> the ids are generated based on patch name
Dec 08 17:38:47 <nebula1> yay!
Dec 08 17:38:49 <JayCanuck> ca.canucksoftware.patches.xxxx
Dec 08 17:39:49 <nebula1> chuqui: silly netsplit
Dec 08 17:40:04 <egaudet_work> Does it set a category?
Dec 08 17:40:11 <egaudet_work> and/or type
Dec 08 17:40:20 <egaudet_work> in package metadata (for instance if patch doesn't have any)
Dec 08 17:40:40 <JayCanuck> sec
Dec 08 17:42:25 <JayCanuck> in the control file, I include, in the source json:
Dec 08 17:43:14 <dBsooner> chuqui: Good morning sir. Sorry for joking on an early am.
Dec 08 17:43:34 <JayCanuck> type:"Patch", category: "WebOS Quick Install", lastupdated, title, and fulldescription
Dec 08 17:43:48 <egaudet_work> cool
Dec 08 17:43:51 <chuqui> WHAT? <remove>Carrots</remove> oh, morning! heh
Dec 08 17:43:58 <egaudet_work> alright I gotta grab some lunch
Dec 08 17:44:00 <egaudet_work> i'll bbl
Dec 08 17:44:03 <JayCanuck> ttyl
Dec 08 17:44:23 <nebula> riiight...
Dec 08 17:45:08 <nebula> rwhitby: you should have the o'reilly book shortly
Dec 08 17:45:28 <dBsooner> nebula: where's mine? :D
Dec 08 17:45:41 <oilsworkn> the mojo book?
Dec 08 17:45:43 <dBsooner> chuqui: Why don't any of the palm internal dev's hang out here?
Dec 08 17:45:54 <nebula> dBsooner: in the store? ;)
Dec 08 17:45:57 <chuqui> how do you know they don't and just don't advertise?
Dec 08 17:46:07 <nebula> dBsooner: sorry, only had one extra
Dec 08 17:46:07 <dBsooner> chuqui: Valid point.
Dec 08 17:46:15 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 08 17:46:21 <nebula> i'm a Palm spy.
Dec 08 17:46:24 <dBsooner> nebula: So send me yours.
Dec 08 17:46:28 <nebula> Palm doesn't even know it.
Dec 08 17:46:32 <nebula> dBsooner: foo!
Dec 08 17:46:38 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 17:46:42 * oilsworkn got the "rough cuts" version before the sdk was released, and downloaded a pdf of the full version when it was ready :)
Dec 08 17:46:48 <nebula> JayCanuck: how ya been?
Dec 08 17:46:52 <dBsooner> I have the PDF as well
Dec 08 17:47:01 <dBsooner> but I am an old school hard copy guy.
Dec 08 17:47:05 <JayCanuck> pretty good, still sick, but pretty good
Dec 08 17:47:09 <nebula> ugh.
Dec 08 17:47:15 <oilsworkn> though i haven't ever looked at hte pdf
Dec 08 17:47:16 <nebula> i know how that is
Dec 08 17:47:24 <oilsworkn> i did like reading about it before the sdk was out though
Dec 08 17:47:39 <nebula> chuqui: has anyone gotten a chance to gander at that audio issue i told you about?
Dec 08 17:47:49 <nebula> i'm assuming it's a 2.0 fix
Dec 08 17:48:01 <JayCanuck> zomg 2.0
Dec 08 17:48:06 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 17:48:09 <nebula> zomglolobbsauce
Dec 08 17:48:19 <nebula> s/bb/bbq
Dec 08 17:48:41 <nebula> i'm gonna put webOS on my HTC, brb.
Dec 08 17:48:43 <nebula> rofl
Dec 08 17:48:45 <dBsooner> chuqui: WHo cares about audio.. I want my app catalog to work for ... oh wait, I can't talk about that.
Dec 08 17:48:53 <nebula> haha
Dec 08 17:48:55 <JayCanuck> kense keeps talking about 2.0, saying he has inside information, yet has no specific details other than there will eventually be a 2.0, lol
Dec 08 17:49:02 * nebula punts dBsooner
Dec 08 17:49:07 <nebula> shh
Dec 08 17:49:36 <nebula> there will be a 2.0, because it's a higher iteration than 1.3
Dec 08 17:49:40 <nebula> :-D
Dec 08 17:49:42 <dBsooner> 2.0 will be Pre2.. haven't you heard?
Dec 08 17:49:53 <nebula> why not Post?
Dec 08 17:49:57 <chuqui> it's with engineering...
Dec 08 17:50:04 <chuqui> kense: love his -- enthusiasm.
Dec 08 17:50:06 <nebula> or "Present"
Dec 08 17:50:14 <nebula> Pre, Present, Post
Dec 08 17:50:32 <JayCanuck> my favourite Palm device name, would be the Palm Talisman
Dec 08 17:50:43 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 08 17:50:49 <JayCanuck> something about Talisman seems to fit the webos style nicely, lol
Dec 08 17:50:50 <nebula> how about facepalm
Dec 08 17:50:52 <dBsooner> but you had the Tungsten
Dec 08 17:50:54 <chuqui> I doubt he has much useful info on 2.0. Heck, I don't.
Dec 08 17:51:24 * oilsworkn hopes 2.0 will do the dishes
Dec 08 17:51:37 <JayCanuck> hey, chuqui, any idea if Palm will be doing a presentation @ CES '10? I know they have a booth, but have no idea about presentations
Dec 08 17:51:49 <dBsooner> forget that.. since 1.* can do wIRC while I am on the toilet.. I want 2.0 to whipe for me.
Dec 08 17:51:58 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 17:51:59 * dBsooner rofls
Dec 08 17:52:19 <nebula> so, is the method to play audio the same, or has it changed since i looked... ie., i use this.audioPlayer.play, this.PlaySound("foo");
Dec 08 17:53:05 <JayCanuck> kinda random, but chuq brought it up in my mind.
Dec 08 17:53:21 <chuqui> we'll be at CES (well, Palm will. not so sure if I will be); no details on what might happen there have been announced yet.
Dec 08 17:53:28 <nebula> someone unplugged brown
Dec 08 17:54:30 <JayCanuck> was it just me, or was it very odd that Palm retweeted about an unofficial third party backup app in progress? last I checked Palm tried to ignore homebrew in the public
Dec 08 17:55:13 <JayCanuck> c'mon, I can't be the only one who found that out-of-character, heh
Dec 08 17:56:51 <dBsooner> they tweeted the word "preware" the other day
Dec 08 17:57:11 <oilsworkn> backup solution is good when they got that class action thing about losing backups
Dec 08 17:57:41 <dBsooner> Yep
Dec 08 17:57:52 <dBsooner> but that class action is such a crappy suit.. it is so full of holes.
Dec 08 17:58:59 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 18:02:59 <dBsooner> I'm still wiating for all my old text messages/emails to be sent to me. Because the suit claims the Palm Cloud backs them up..
Dec 08 18:03:20 <oilsworkn> oh, just noticed there is a wootoff today
Dec 08 18:03:22 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 08 18:03:42 <dBsooner> what?? really?
Dec 08 18:03:43 <dBsooner> Yes!
Dec 08 18:30:05 <keith> it started last night
Dec 08 18:31:01 <dBsooner> don't they always start at midnight?
Dec 08 18:31:04 <oilsworkn> at midnight?
Dec 08 18:31:05 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 08 18:31:12 * oilsworkn was asleep before then
Dec 08 18:31:48 <acydlord> the wootoff has been going on for awhile
Dec 08 18:32:09 <oilsworkn> it always starts at midnight
Dec 08 18:32:18 <acydlord> yeah
Dec 08 18:47:05 <en0x> Motorola T505 is anyone using this?
Dec 08 18:53:18 <Rick_work> oh crud.  I didn't look this morning.  Did I miss anything good?
Dec 08 18:53:31 <Rick_work> Loading my favorite woot-off-checkner now.
Dec 08 19:07:10 <JayCanuck> wb chuqui
Dec 08 19:07:21 <chuqui> yo...
Dec 08 19:08:40 <dBsooner> anyone else getting a whole bunch of "lag check" notices?
Dec 08 19:11:04 <Rick_work> hey chuqui -- back from the fire drill?
Dec 08 19:11:25 <dBsooner> how did you know it was a firedrill?
Dec 08 19:11:45 <Templarian> lol fire drill. Love when that happens at work (and they are random so it's annoying)
Dec 08 19:12:02 <Rick_work> Ve haf ways......
Dec 08 19:12:23 <dBsooner> Am I the only one getting a bunch of "notices" from myself for a "LAGCHK" from freenode?
Dec 08 19:12:36 * oilsworkn has a feeling rick is the one who pulled the alarm
Dec 08 19:13:05 <dBsooner> wow.. that would be some LONG arms
Dec 08 19:14:02 <chuqui> Just another meeting, no firedrill so far today (knocks on, um, cubiclewood)
Dec 08 19:14:39 <Templarian> Your cubicles are made of wood... fancy.
Dec 08 19:14:56 <chuqui> well, it looks like wood. kinda
Dec 08 19:15:02 <dBsooner> chuqui: sorry to be so nosey.. How far down the food chain are you? Are you one above Adora? Or even higher?
Dec 08 19:15:09 <Templarian> Simulated wood... still fancy.
Dec 08 19:15:21 <dBsooner> you can't push pin into your cubicles?
Dec 08 19:15:43 * Adora smacks dBsooner
Dec 08 19:15:52 <dBsooner> lol
Dec 08 19:15:55 <Adora> stop trying to find out who my boss is so you can ask if I can come out and play
Dec 08 19:16:01 <gkatsev> ~lart Adora
Dec 08 19:16:08 <dBsooner> EXACTLY what I was trying to do
Dec 08 19:16:13 <gkatsev> what happened to infobot?
Dec 08 19:16:14 <oilsworkn> infobot is ALWAYS MIA
Dec 08 19:16:14 <Templarian> :P
Dec 08 19:16:15 <dBsooner> Since you never come play with me anymore.
Dec 08 19:16:24 <oilsworkn> ohh
Dec 08 19:16:25 * dBsooner misses Adora.
Dec 08 19:16:27 <gkatsev> oh, i see, it died in the netsplit or w/e
Dec 08 19:16:28 <Adora> kinda busy!
Dec 08 19:16:40 <Adora> if you guys stop writing apps, I'd hang out more
Dec 08 19:16:43 <Adora> but nooooooo
Dec 08 19:16:57 <Adora> prolific little *mumble grumble*
Dec 08 19:16:57 <dBsooner> so make chuqui review them
Dec 08 19:17:09 <dBsooner> so you have more time to do the "relations" side of "developer relations"
Dec 08 19:17:10 <chuqui> I kinda live in my own little reality.... Adora is part of a TEAM. (but I'm not jealous)
Dec 08 19:17:30 <Templarian> I can't wait finals are next week after that I'll be 100% focused on webos-internals work and the Palm Pre will get it's fully functioning WoW Armory application.
Dec 08 19:17:51 <dBsooner> chuqui != team_player ... Adora == team_player.
Dec 08 19:18:10 <Adora> Templarian: if you write something so good that it pulls my bf back into WoW, I will be very displeased.
Dec 08 19:18:14 <Adora> =]
Dec 08 19:18:21 <gkatsev> Templarian: where do you go again?
Dec 08 19:18:33 <gkatsev> dBsooner: !== & ===
Dec 08 19:18:50 <dBsooner> stupid if conditionals
Dec 08 19:18:58 <Templarian> Western Michigan University. We have a 3 week break (i'll be in florida, but it rains a lot so should work out).
Dec 08 19:18:58 <gkatsev> wow === world of warcrack
Dec 08 19:19:13 <dBsooner> bf = no fun.
Dec 08 19:19:45 <gkatsev> Adora: if he choses wow over you, then something is very wrong...
Dec 08 19:19:52 <Templarian> Adora: I don't even play the game anymore meh boring after a while.
Dec 08 19:19:54 <gkatsev> s/choses/chooses/
Dec 08 19:20:18 <Adora> gkatsev: hey, I get sucked into the Internet sometimes, too
Dec 08 19:20:35 <dBsooner> Adora: no.. he should never choose internet over you. ;)
Dec 08 19:20:37 <Adora> I never got into WoW, as much as I tried
Dec 08 19:20:43 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 08 19:20:49 <Adora> nice game, but it's no Diablo
Dec 08 19:20:52 <gkatsev> you tried getting into wow?
Dec 08 19:21:10 <gkatsev> lol, reminds me of the guild, with clara's husband
Dec 08 19:21:54 <Templarian> Adora: D3 will ruin everyone. My friends will not do anything when it comes out, they will cease to exist unless i join the game.
Dec 08 19:22:14 <gkatsev> starcraft 2 also
Dec 08 19:22:19 <Adora> I know, won't it be awesome?  =D
Dec 08 19:22:43 <Templarian> I know someone that has played it... yea awesome is an understatement.
Dec 08 19:22:52 <gkatsev> played what? D3?
Dec 08 19:22:57 <Templarian> And SC2.
Dec 08 19:23:02 <gkatsev> oh man
Dec 08 19:23:12 <dBsooner> Just give me my MUD
Dec 08 19:23:14 <dBsooner> and I am fine
Dec 08 19:23:19 <Templarian> (he's one of those gusy that payed the 500 (and his gf's 500) to get into Bliz con.
Dec 08 19:23:22 <dBsooner> forget you graphic whores
Dec 08 19:23:23 * gkatsev hands dBsooner some mud
Dec 08 19:23:26 <Templarian> guys*
Dec 08 19:24:08 <Templarian> I like how close SC2 and D3's programming departments are they copy and paste eachothers code constantly.
Dec 08 19:24:23 <gkatsev> heh, nice
Dec 08 19:25:44 <nonlocal> D3 is love, SC2 is sex. I plan to abuse both.
Dec 08 19:26:19 <gkatsev> where is infobot when you need it?
Dec 08 19:28:20 <oilsworkn> playing D3
Dec 08 19:29:26 <gkatsev> all i need is falldown (gkatsev.com/projects/falldown/falldown.shtml)
Dec 08 19:29:35 <gkatsev> soon to a preware near you
Dec 08 19:31:55 <oilsworkn> falldown?
Dec 08 19:33:03 <gkatsev> yeah, its a simple game. you have a ball that falls but there are things blocking its way, you want to keep the ball from hitting the top and dying
Dec 08 19:33:08 <gkatsev> very addictive
Dec 08 19:35:00 <egaudet_work> huh?
Dec 08 19:35:05 <egaudet_work> if it's falling how does it hit the top
Dec 08 19:35:20 * jtrucks guesses that it bounces
Dec 08 19:35:30 <gkatsev> just open the game in ff3.5
Dec 08 19:36:09 <jtrucks> I have occasional MIME issues in the mail client where I see the sig from a mailing list, but none of the content above that. Anyone else see that?
Dec 08 19:36:13 <egaudet_work> scrolling screen
Dec 08 19:36:51 * oilsworkn opened it in chrome, and it doesnt seem to work
Dec 08 19:37:25 <gkatsev> yeah, doesnt work in chrome... its still only second revision.
Dec 08 19:37:42 <gkatsev> if you have flash, you could try this one: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/falldown (not mine)
Dec 08 19:38:38 <oilsworkn> hey chuqui, what are the chances of me getting a review on one of my apps deleted?
Dec 08 19:39:36 <oilsworkn> the guy has a lot of cursing etc in his "review" aka "flame bait"
Dec 08 19:44:06 <chuqui> what's the probelm w/ the review?
Dec 08 19:44:49 <oilsworkn> its just an angry rant not related specifically related to my app
Dec 08 19:44:59 <oilsworkn> i tried to reply to him to, and that just made him more angry
Dec 08 19:45:21 <oilsworkn> i could care less that he gave me one star
Dec 08 19:45:27 <oilsworkn> couldnt care less*
Dec 08 19:45:46 <oilsworkn> its the cursing
Dec 08 19:46:02 <chuqui> if there are bad words in it, I'll remove it next time I go in and police.
Dec 08 19:46:11 <chuqui> which should be towards the end of the week, I think.
Dec 08 19:46:16 <oilsworkn> ok
Dec 08 19:50:27 <CTLAdvance-work> So many stupid reviews from people they want everything to be included in every app, even free apps
Dec 08 19:50:50 <CTLAdvance-work> one guy must have spent 10 minutes making a song using the word gay over 30 times
Dec 08 19:51:01 <oilsworkn> lol, this guy isn't that funnyt
Dec 08 19:51:04 <oilsworkn> hes just angry
Dec 08 19:51:39 * oilsworkn goes to lunch
Dec 08 19:52:43 <nonlocal> ...
Dec 08 19:52:45 <Templarian> My evlolution shirt showed up.
Dec 08 19:53:05 <Templarian> (too bad I'm not at my partents place till friday, meh)
Dec 08 19:53:07 <nonlocal> honestly, I had my nieces iPhone for two days
Dec 08 19:53:16 <nonlocal> jailbreaking it and what have you
Dec 08 19:53:38 <nonlocal> wasn't until now that I realized how far the pre still has to go
Dec 08 19:53:44 <bpadalino|work> nonlocal, did you constantly try doing the webos gestures with it ?
Dec 08 19:53:54 <nonlocal> yes
Dec 08 19:53:59 <nonlocal> I did  admittedly
Dec 08 19:54:02 <nonlocal> and
Dec 08 19:54:11 <nonlocal> backed out of games and apps
Dec 08 19:54:17 <nonlocal> thinking I'd get card view
Dec 08 19:54:57 <bpadalino|work> my biggest gripe with webos gestures is the inability to remap the center button to be the back gesture
Dec 08 19:55:14 <bpadalino|work> i feel the back gesture takes too long to execute and slows me down considerably :(
Dec 08 19:55:31 <Rick_work> pixi doesn't HAVE a center button
Dec 08 19:55:38 <Templarian> bpadalino: how would you get to a card view then?
Dec 08 19:55:47 <nonlocal> it has a center gesture area
Dec 08 19:55:50 <nonlocal> same thing rly
Dec 08 19:56:24 <bpadalino|work> Templarian: swipe up
Dec 08 19:56:51 <nonlocal> I missed the webos ui
Dec 08 19:57:04 <bpadalino|work> Rick_work: pixi can still have the center "button" get pushed, right?
Dec 08 19:57:13 <bpadalino|work> just a little tap and it's done
Dec 08 19:57:24 <nonlocal> didn't miss the lag, LOVED having my gpu used and ohhh the apps
Dec 08 19:57:25 <Templarian> bpadalino: oh yea the buttons in the way so I rarely use that gesture.
Dec 08 19:57:56 <Templarian> nonlocal: how did you like closing applications that you were going to end up having to open a few minutes later.
Dec 08 19:58:23 <nonlocal> coverd that already few sentences ago lol
Dec 08 19:58:46 <nonlocal> lost my assassins creed progress trying to go into cardview
Dec 08 19:59:04 <nonlocal> but once it was jailbroken and I installed the homebrew multitasking
Dec 08 19:59:08 * Templarian wanders in and out of conversations meh.
Dec 08 19:59:13 <nonlocal> it was fine again
Dec 08 19:59:23 <nonlocal> just have to hold the center button instead of pressing
Dec 08 20:00:14 <nonlocal> I think for the first time since June I questioned why I heart my Pre.
Dec 08 20:01:22 <nonlocal> Once I was back on my Pre I realized how much I missed my intuitive UI
Dec 08 20:01:53 <nonlocal> But its a big tradeoff for the  shee number of fun, cool and occasionally useful apps available
Dec 08 20:02:24 <nonlocal> point being, I never WANTED 'apps' gallore until I got to see what was to offer
Dec 08 20:02:40 <nonlocal> makes alot of the shoddy webos apps seem lacking
Dec 08 20:02:42 <Templarian> Meh, those will come in time. The Ape framework just got released (it's just simple long Polling framework), but that should help people write some multi-player games.
Dec 08 20:02:49 <nonlocal> save the best ones like wirc
Dec 08 20:02:55 <nonlocal> wirc is fantastic
Dec 08 20:03:12 <nonlocal> wouldn't trade it for the world
Dec 08 20:03:17 <Templarian> WebOS lacks designers. But that's because designers cost $$ most of the time.
Dec 08 20:03:44 <Templarian> How does IRC work on the iPhone... wouldn't you have to close it to do anything.
Dec 08 20:04:24 <nonlocal> Yeah to an extent, you can use multi channels but once you leave the app its game over
Dec 08 20:05:26 <nonlocal> I don't plan on leaving my Pre, Palm has my support for the long run. But damn do I feel left out.
Dec 08 20:05:42 <nonlocal> Like watching all the other kids go on a field trip you were left out of.
Dec 08 20:05:51 <gkatsev> well, you can have push apps now, which is kind of like background. not sure if there are push irc clients for the iphone though
Dec 08 20:06:07 <nonlocal> A single thread, non multitasking fieldtrip...
Dec 08 20:08:35 <nonlocal> Nothing else on the iPhone impressed me.
Dec 08 20:08:58 <nonlocal> Oh that's a lie, the virtual keyboard is remarkably accurate compared to any oher OnScreen keyboard I've used.
Dec 08 20:09:13 <nonlocal> But outside of that, the apps are what I need.
Dec 08 20:09:43 <nonlocal> I need WebGL... and  the GPU to be used in general.
Dec 08 20:10:26 <nonlocal> God I hope the beginning to mid 2010 gives me all the sweet Palm stuff I'm wishing for.
Dec 08 20:11:03 <nonlocal> Better APIs, GPU access and utilization, WebGL, Flash
Dec 08 20:14:21 <Rick_work> dBsooner ping
Dec 08 20:15:04 <Rick_work> rwhitby  ping
Dec 08 20:35:47 <xorg> is this something webosinternals could take on....
Dec 08 20:35:59 <xorg> http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3747
Dec 08 20:37:36 <dBsooner> Rick_work: ping pong
Dec 08 20:37:47 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: you have mail
Dec 08 20:38:20 <Rick_work> dBsooner  who is the maintainer on  /var/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.messaging/MessagingPlugins.sh ??
Dec 08 20:38:22 <egaudet_work> those 3 orig files are left after removing ally our patches?
Dec 08 20:38:47 <dBsooner> yes
Dec 08 20:38:56 <dBsooner> but look at my grep's
Dec 08 20:39:16 <egaudet_work> i'll have to go through it when I get home
Dec 08 20:39:18 <dBsooner> those 3 files do not have a md5sum
Dec 08 20:39:23 <dBsooner> no, its in the email
Dec 08 20:39:45 <dBsooner> those 3 files do not have an entry in /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*md5sums
Dec 08 20:40:34 <egaudet_work> because they were created
Dec 08 20:41:21 <egaudet_work> It's probably a small problem with comparing md5sums
Dec 08 20:41:38 <egaudet_work> since its probably comparing "" to "whatever md5sum is for blank file"
Dec 08 20:42:01 <egaudet_work> those orig files should be size 0
Dec 08 20:42:10 <Templarian> Hey guys I'm making the web version of my framework now, but what licence makes it open for use but restricts editing?
Dec 08 20:42:13 <dBsooner> no, they weren't created
Dec 08 20:42:19 <dBsooner> the patch file doesn't create the file
Dec 08 20:42:45 <Templarian> (same one that will be running preware's site so I need to get the licence correct).
Dec 08 20:43:34 <dBsooner> ?
Dec 08 20:43:56 <dBsooner> Umm... GNU?
Dec 08 20:44:13 <dBsooner> i am not that great with licensing..
Dec 08 20:44:22 <Templarian> Me either.
Dec 08 20:44:24 <dBsooner> I think itsw GNU GPL v2
Dec 08 20:44:40 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, yes they were created
Dec 08 20:44:44 <Templarian> definately not gnu.
Dec 08 20:44:45 <egaudet_work> ls -l the orig files
Dec 08 20:45:06 <egaudet_work> the patch DOES create those files
Dec 08 20:45:06 <dBsooner> I ill in a minute.
Dec 08 20:45:31 <dBsooner> so we need to figure out a way to delete the backup if that was the last patch to touch the file
Dec 08 20:45:35 <dBsooner> or if the patch created the file
Dec 08 20:47:00 <dBsooner> so if the file is blank, you touch *.webosinternals.orig?
Dec 08 20:47:16 <egaudet_work> if the file doesn't exist
Dec 08 20:47:25 <dBsooner> s/is blank/does not exist/
Dec 08 20:47:30 <egaudet_work> yes
Dec 08 20:47:49 <egaudet_work> i won't get into multiple patches touching a file created by another patch
Dec 08 20:47:54 <dBsooner> so prerm should delete the file if the *.webosinternals.org is empty
Dec 08 20:48:23 <egaudet_work> only if everything else can be removed
Dec 08 20:48:48 <egaudet_work> dBsooner did those prerm's succeed?
Dec 08 20:48:55 <egaudet_work> but just left the files?
Dec 08 20:49:00 <dBsooner> yes
Dec 08 20:49:02 <egaudet_work> k
Dec 08 20:49:05 <egaudet_work> i'll fix it tonight
Dec 08 20:49:06 <dBsooner> the logs are in the .txt
Dec 08 20:54:51 <egaudet_work> dBsooner, I haven't looked at the logs yet, I will athome
Dec 08 20:54:55 <egaudet_work> what about the powerd one?
Dec 08 20:54:58 <egaudet_work> what do you mean failed to -R?
Dec 08 20:56:17 <dBsooner> sec
Dec 08 20:56:51 <ird_maybe_work> Chatzilla, really?
Dec 08 21:05:01 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: http://webos.pastebin.com/d17aba584
Dec 08 21:07:21 <egaudet_work> that seems like it works as intended?
Dec 08 21:08:07 <dBsooner> kinda
Dec 08 21:08:13 <dBsooner> but why did it fail to unapply
Dec 08 21:08:47 <rwhitby> Ron001: *never* use ipkg without the -o switch
Dec 08 21:08:55 <egaudet_work> because that file was already unapplied (e.g. it is gone if it were created)
Dec 08 21:09:20 <dBsooner> maybe because that file was included in the OTA.. but didn't have an md5sum in usr/lib/ipkg/info
Dec 08 21:09:31 <egaudet_work> ??
Dec 08 21:09:36 <dBsooner> wow.. good morning rwhitby
Dec 08 21:09:40 <dBsooner> that was like hours ago
Dec 08 21:09:40 <egaudet_work> no file included in OTA doesn't have md5sum
Dec 08 21:09:41 <dBsooner> :D
Dec 08 21:09:59 <dBsooner> then how did that file get updated?
Dec 08 21:10:04 <egaudet_work> does /usr/sbin/suspend_action exist dBsooner?
Dec 08 21:10:11 <egaudet_work> in doctor
Dec 08 21:10:16 <dBsooner> because the only thing to touch is that patch
Dec 08 21:10:19 <dBsooner> I don't know
Dec 08 21:10:22 <dBsooner> im not at home
Dec 08 21:10:31 * dBsooner is actually working for once.
Dec 08 21:10:51 <egaudet_work> if it exists and the patch touched it, the OTA update updated it
Dec 08 21:10:52 * dBsooner is going to mimic rwhitby from now on and always be dBsooner
Dec 08 21:11:09 <dBsooner> then why didn't it find an md5sum?
Dec 08 21:11:14 <egaudet_work> who said it didn't?
Dec 08 21:11:19 <egaudet_work> where do you see that it did not find an md5sum?
Dec 08 21:11:39 <dBsooner> i figured it tried to md5sum match before doing a -R
Dec 08 21:11:43 <egaudet_work> the FIRST check is simply "well would this patch do a clean opposite (i.e. apply if trying to remove or remove if trying to apply)
Dec 08 21:12:07 <dBsooner> ok
Dec 08 21:12:09 <egaudet_work> md5sum is next
Dec 08 21:12:13 <dBsooner> then why is it still there?
Dec 08 21:12:21 <egaudet_work> huh?
Dec 08 21:12:24 <dBsooner> the .orig
Dec 08 21:12:24 <egaudet_work> why is what still there?
Dec 08 21:12:29 <egaudet_work> what .orig
Dec 08 21:12:32 <dBsooner> nm
Dec 08 21:12:43 <dBsooner> its not
Dec 08 21:12:46 <dBsooner> i see what your saying
Dec 08 21:12:49 <egaudet_work> right
Dec 08 21:12:51 <dBsooner> sorry to add confusion
Dec 08 21:13:00 <Rick_work> rwhitby see pm
Dec 08 21:13:19 <egaudet_work> testing is good, the more confusion we solve the better :P
Dec 08 21:13:42 <egaudet_work> Throw as many rocks as you can to see if you can penetrate the AUPT armor!
Dec 08 21:13:50 <rwhitby> xaiki: to use git for patching, you would need to git add / on the phone, which is a big amount of space taken up in the rootfs.
Dec 08 21:13:53 <dBsooner> I already did
Dec 08 21:14:03 <dBsooner> "I allow users to uninstall a patch without running prerm"
Dec 08 21:14:46 <egaudet_work> that rock missed AUPT and hit the queen in the head :p
Dec 08 21:15:20 <dBsooner> i am still floored by that
Dec 08 21:21:13 <rwhitby> Templarian: CC no derivatives is the license you're looking for
Dec 08 21:23:55 <Templarian> rwhitby: perfect. Thank you.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 08 21:26:51 2009
Dec 08 21:27:53 <Templarian> rwhitby: you don't think anyone will mind that for the base framework? (I'm redoing it, it looks an acts different than my regular framework now).
Dec 08 21:28:31 <Templarian> and*
Dec 08 21:29:51 <Templarian> rwhitby: What licence would I put on all the modules that actually control the preware site?
Dec 08 21:30:14 <Templarian> (MIT?)
Dec 08 21:31:50 <rwhitby> Templarian: dunno
Dec 08 21:32:26 <rwhitby> Templarian: I guess it depends whether Opal Coba is going to clone our website as well ...
Dec 08 21:32:47 <Templarian> Opal Coba? What's that?
Dec 08 21:33:24 <Templarian> The base framework is closed to modication, but all the modules need to be as open as possible.
Dec 08 21:34:32 <egaudet_work> the guy that copied Preware
Dec 08 21:34:53 <egaudet_work> guy/girl i duno
Dec 08 21:35:35 <Templarian> lol. Not like any of our stuff will be copyrighted once i start inserting these licence things.
Dec 08 21:36:29 <Templarian> I didn't realise Opal Coba still has the clone going.
Dec 08 21:39:32 <rwhitby> Templarian: http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/installer <- Total downloads: 3,973
Dec 08 21:40:20 <rwhitby> oil_: "Background updates coming soon." in Installer.  We can just use his code I guess ;)
Dec 08 21:42:04 <gkatsev> rwhitby: did he finally come clean? or what?
Dec 08 21:43:20 <Templarian> rwhitby: lol.
Dec 08 21:44:49 <rwhitby> gkatsev: nothing really to come clean about - he makes it clear in the description that it's Preware with some cosmetic changes.
Dec 08 21:45:11 <rwhitby> It's open source in action.  The end-user gets to make their choice.
Dec 08 21:46:25 <gkatsev> lol, i guess.
Dec 08 21:47:32 <rwhitby> he called it a different name, and complied with the license, so there's no real issue.
Dec 08 21:47:53 * Templarian just edited and deleted out half of his framework to make the "web" version. 80% chance the site will break once I commit. Fun :)
Dec 08 21:48:25 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 08 22:01:37 <Templarian> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTF_Public_License Why did no one tell me about this licence.
Dec 08 22:07:10 <gkatsev> haha
Dec 08 22:07:36 * gkatsev uses the WTFPL from now on
Dec 08 22:23:53 <Rick_work> Adora, did you review xmaspegged?
Dec 08 22:24:05 <Rick_work> Someone finally approved it.  :-)
Dec 08 22:26:35 <Adora> dunno who that was
Dec 08 22:26:41 <Adora> must have been a christmas elf  =]
Dec 08 22:30:23 * Rick_work happy feet dance. I thought it wasn't going to get out before christmas.
Dec 08 22:30:37 <Rick_work> since we submitted it WAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING.
Dec 08 22:30:59 <Rick_work> but I am told that the stupid bug that was preventing it from showing up on the testing server has been fixed.
Dec 08 22:32:05 <Rick_work> I wonder how many others were jammed up in there....
Dec 08 22:41:28 <rwhitby> oil_: ping
Dec 08 22:43:46 <oilsworkn> when the hell did my home pc get _?
Dec 08 22:44:44 <gkatsev> netsplit?
Dec 08 22:46:08 <debilater> hello
Dec 08 22:46:24 <debilater> someone here to help me with git?
Dec 08 22:48:10 <Rick_work> no one here EVER uses git.
Dec 08 22:48:27 <Rick_work> seriously, it's far more useful to just ask.  If someone knows, they usually answer
Dec 08 22:48:33 <Rick_work> what'cha need?
Dec 08 22:49:16 <debilater> ok, I cloned a repository, copied my files into it, added them, commited them. however, they do not appear on the server
Dec 08 22:49:37 <debilater> to git.webos-internals.org
Dec 08 22:50:04 <oilsworkn> rwhitby: ?
Dec 08 22:50:29 <rwhitby> debilater: which repo?
Dec 08 22:50:37 <Rick_work> if you haven't been given merge privlidges it will have to be merged by an admin
Dec 08 22:50:57 <debilater> rwhitby: application/netstat.git
Dec 08 22:51:13 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: writing the replace service, but have to do two confirms until we do signing.  since I don't get the postinst until after the first package has been removed and then installed again (since the postinst may change)
Dec 08 22:51:29 <oilsworkn> ah
Dec 08 22:51:29 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 08 22:51:37 <rwhitby> debilater: applications ?
Dec 08 22:51:40 <debilater> i'm more the svn person and new to git, I thought it would be similar, but it seems it's not
Dec 08 22:51:52 <rwhitby> debilater: you need to git push back to the server
Dec 08 22:52:00 <rwhitby> debilater: the add and commit are local to your machine
Dec 08 22:52:10 <rwhitby> debilater: make sure that you set the user.name and user.email before the commit
Dec 08 22:52:28 <debilater> rwhitby: i tried that:
Dec 08 22:52:30 <debilater> scip@loria: $ git push git@git.webos-internals.org:applications/netstat.git
Dec 08 22:52:30 <debilater> No refs in common and none specified; doing nothing.
Dec 08 22:52:30 <debilater> Perhaps you should specify a branch such as 'master'.
Dec 08 22:52:30 <debilater> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
Dec 08 22:52:30 <debilater> error: failed to push some refs to 'git@git.webos-internals.org:applications/netstat.git'
Dec 08 22:52:59 <debilater> user.name? where?
Dec 08 22:53:09 <rwhitby> debilater: git config --global
Dec 08 22:54:38 <rwhitby> debilater: add 'master' to the end of your git push line
Dec 08 22:54:53 <rwhitby> (assuming that's the name of your local branch)
Dec 08 22:55:00 <debilater> there is no global config not in ~/.git*something or /usr/local/etc/...
Dec 08 22:55:28 <rwhitby> debilater: git config --global should edit ~/.gitconfig
Dec 08 22:55:47 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: so I'll do two confirms now, and signing will fix it
Dec 08 22:55:52 <debilater> no prints just usage
Dec 08 22:56:13 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: 'replace' service, with same args as 'remove'
Dec 08 22:56:35 <rwhitby> debilater: git config --global user.name "Foo Bar"
Dec 08 22:56:49 <rwhitby> debilater: git config --global user.email "foo@bar.example"
Dec 08 22:57:04 <oilsworkn> rwhitby: ill have to go through and fix the code
Dec 08 22:57:28 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: I'll test it here, and then push .25 to testing
Dec 08 22:57:47 <oilsworkn> this will allow patches and themes to be updated
Dec 08 22:58:09 <debilater> rwhitby: ok done, it's now on the server
Dec 08 22:59:29 <rwhitby> debilater: looks good
Dec 08 22:59:57 <rwhitby> debilater: service too?
Dec 08 23:00:41 <debilater> rwhitby: arg service gives an error:
Dec 08 23:00:43 <debilater> scip@loria: $ git push git@git.webos-internals.org:applications/netstatservice.git master
Dec 08 23:00:43 <debilater> ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Repository read access denied
Dec 08 23:00:43 <debilater> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
Dec 08 23:01:09 <rwhitby> debilater: services/
Dec 08 23:01:12 * rwhitby bbiab
Dec 08 23:01:43 <debilater> oops, wrong directory
Dec 08 23:01:51 <debilater> got it, it's up too
Dec 08 23:02:49 <dBsooner> oilsworkn: repeat that last statement...
Dec 08 23:03:18 <debilater> rwhitby: as i already wrote in the email you might take a look over the service if it's structured ok as it is
Dec 08 23:05:52 <dBsooner> come on oilsworkn, humor me.
Dec 08 23:07:47 <debilater> rwhitby: and thanks a lot for the help again
Dec 08 23:08:28 <dBsooner> oh.. and after testing AUPT.. I REALLY think there should a stinkin "Remove ALL" button in Preware.
Dec 08 23:08:28 <dBsooner> :D
Dec 08 23:09:06 <rwhitby> debilater: does your service talk on dbus, or is it just a shell script daemon to create and update a file?
Dec 08 23:09:41 <debilater> rwhitby: yes just a shell daemon which updates a database (and a file currently)
Dec 08 23:10:03 <debilater> rwhitby: no dbus stuff
Dec 08 23:10:13 <rwhitby> debilater: is there any intention to make it work over dbus, or will it remain just a linux daemon?
Dec 08 23:10:39 <rwhitby> debilater: we usually reserve the name 'service' for the dbus services called by Mojo.
Dec 08 23:10:49 <debilater> rwhitby: it must be written in java then?
Dec 08 23:11:05 <rwhitby> debilater: no, we can do both Java and C services
Dec 08 23:11:13 <debilater> rwhitby: i could do that however (if i'll figure out how, haha)
Dec 08 23:11:22 <rwhitby> debilater: but there is no need to make it a service if a daemon does the job
Dec 08 23:11:48 <rwhitby> debilater: it's really your choice - I'm just looking at what to call  it and where to put it as a result of your decision
Dec 08 23:11:48 <debilater> rwhitby: for the moment it does
Dec 08 23:12:48 <rwhitby> debilater: perhaps we rename to netstatd then?
Dec 08 23:12:52 <debilater> rwhitby: rewriting it in java sounds nice but this will take more time since it's some years ago i used java (ten in fact)
Dec 08 23:13:08 <debilater> rwhitby: netstatd sounds ok
Dec 08 23:13:10 <dBsooner> rwhitby: then wIRCd breaks that rule. :D
Dec 08 23:13:30 <rwhitby> debilater: so the app just reads from the database that gets updated by the daemon?
Dec 08 23:13:38 <rwhitby> dBsooner: don't get me started on that ...
Dec 08 23:13:42 <dBsooner> HEHEHE
Dec 08 23:13:49 <dBsooner> I like pushing your buttons.. it's fun.
Dec 08 23:14:11 <dBsooner> anywho.. back to real work I go
Dec 08 23:14:34 <rwhitby> dBsooner: meh - if people want to go against conventions, then c'est la vie
Dec 08 23:15:33 <debilater> rwhitby: no. the daemon uses the database to keep track of the data and writes a json file which contains a summary, the app uses the json file afterwards. i wanted to use it the database directly, because i wanted to have graphs of the traffic history, but i failed to get this done (the libs available for graphing are either buggy or too complicated) and i'm new to javascript, so i decided to use just the file for the moment and upgrade to the data
Dec 08 23:15:55 <debilater> rwhitby: however, the database is prepared for use by the app
Dec 08 23:16:13 <rwhitby> debilater: will you want the app to control the updating of the database in any way in the future?
Dec 08 23:16:26 <debilater> rwhitby: nope, never
Dec 08 23:19:33 <rwhitby> debilater: with regard to your question on meta-packages for optware - absolutely!
Dec 08 23:20:45 <debilater> rwhitby: ah great.
Dec 08 23:21:27 <rwhitby> debilater: we could do them in the preware/build.git directly, rather than have a new repo for it
Dec 08 23:22:34 <rwhitby> debilater: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=daemons/netstatd.git;a=summary
Dec 08 23:22:57 <rwhitby> debilater: if you email me what you think should go in the Makefiles for the autobuilder, I can set that up.
Dec 08 23:23:41 <debilater> rwhitby: i sent the email already one hour ago or so
Dec 08 23:23:59 <rwhitby> debilater: ah yes, I see them now.
Dec 08 23:25:06 <debilater> rwhitby: and ignore the last one :)
Dec 08 23:45:25 <Abyssul> howdy
Dec 08 23:47:49 * Templarian gives up trying to make this site compatible with IE, feels like adding the chromeFrame install option and calling it good.
Dec 08 23:48:35 <Abyssul> I agree
Dec 08 23:48:59 <Abyssul> Though Chrome sucks on this computer, it never wants to connect properly and is like 2x slower than firefox
Dec 08 23:49:26 <dBsooner> Templarian: make it only compat with Silverlight
Dec 08 23:49:26 <dBsooner> FTW
Dec 08 23:50:13 <Templarian> I actually love the idea of silverlight just IE doesn't support half of the stuff and it's going to take forever with these debug tools to figure out what's breaking (my framework is very recursive).
Dec 08 23:50:37 * oilsworkn thinks the site shouldn't be using templarians javascript framework if it can't be made to work on ie
Dec 08 23:51:02 * dBsooner hates silverlight because it is only compatible with windows
Dec 08 23:51:02 <Templarian> Although before Firebug 1.4 came out it would lock up firebug also so the point that ie doesn't lock up is a plus.
Dec 08 23:51:39 * rwhitby loves the site design, is ambivalent about the implementation, but believes it does need to work on IE
Dec 08 23:52:04 <Templarian> Yea, I really want to make it work, but somethings breaking in IE and I'm having trouble find, I'll just keep looking
Dec 08 23:52:34 <Templarian> I deleted all the IE8 features so now it actually tries to render the page but it's hitting a snag.
Dec 08 23:52:49 * oilsworkn throws it all in a <table> tag and goes on with his day :)
Dec 08 23:52:51 <Templarian> s/IE8/JavaScript 1.8.x
Dec 08 23:53:07 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 08 23:53:09 * Templarian hits oilsworkn with a trout
Dec 08 23:53:48 <dBsooner> who's framework was this?
Dec 08 23:54:16 <Templarian> The funny part is when I first wrote this framework it worked in IE8 but that was months ago and I eventually said screw it just deleted all the IE specific stuff and it cut the size by a lot.
Dec 08 23:54:52 <oilsworkn> don't tell me you're one of those "id rather kill myself then use a table" designers
Dec 08 23:55:07 <Templarian> No, tables are great for tabular data.
Dec 08 23:55:31 <oilsworkn> ok
Dec 08 23:55:32 <oilsworkn> lol
Dec 08 23:55:36 <Templarian> If I find someone using a table for something other than tables I'll kill them. I'm not very suicidal so would never kill myself.
Dec 08 23:59:01 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: so here's what I'm thinking:
Dec 08 23:59:10 <rwhitby> 1) we implement the replace method
Dec 08 23:59:16 <rwhitby> 2) we implement signing
Dec 08 23:59:22 <rwhitby> 3) Update All works
Dec 08 23:59:27 <rwhitby> 4) AUPT works
Dec 08 23:59:49 <rwhitby> 5) Bingo - just hit "Update All" after a webOS OTA update to upgrade all Patches with no confirm screens.
Dec 09 00:00:43 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: see any roadblocks other than time and effort?
Dec 09 00:00:49 <oilsworkn> how does removal of a patch handle it if some/all of the files it patched are completely different, and different from the backups it made before patching?
Dec 09 00:00:59 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: AUPT magic
Dec 09 00:01:24 <oilsworkn> thats not really an answer
Dec 09 00:01:38 <rwhitby> I know - I don't understand it fully myself yet :-)
Dec 09 00:02:33 <rwhitby> but I tested it last night on a 1.2.1 to 1.3.1 upgrade, and AUPT worked well for the "I used Preware for everything" case
Dec 09 00:03:04 <oilsworkn> what happens if they release 1.3.6 right now
Dec 09 00:03:11 <oilsworkn> 1) not patches for it, no feed for it
Dec 09 00:03:34 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: therefore lots of unknown packages, and no updates shown
Dec 09 00:03:41 <oilsworkn> ok
Dec 09 00:03:50 <rwhitby> when the feed comes on line, then lots of updates shown
Dec 09 00:03:51 <oilsworkn> id hate to rely on having foreknowledge of updates for it to work
Dec 09 00:04:00 <rwhitby> agreed
Dec 09 00:04:39 <rwhitby> as we saw with 1.3.2 on the pixi, an update could land at any time without any warning.
Dec 09 00:05:12 <oilsworkn> and patches updated for a prerelease version need to be re-checked at release
Dec 09 00:05:24 <oilsworkn> there is no gurantee any of hte files will be the same
Dec 09 00:06:09 <oilsworkn> rwhitby: then cookie/db deletion and feed management?
Dec 09 00:06:19 <oilsworkn> how did they end up behind signing? :)
Dec 09 00:08:21 <rwhitby> oilsworkn: they didn't
Dec 09 00:08:35 <rwhitby> ipkgservice end of signing hasn't been started yet
Dec 09 00:08:51 <oilsworkn> ah
Dec 09 00:09:09 <oilsworkn> if anything, i think the order of importance starts with db/cookie removal
Dec 09 00:11:03 <oilsworkn> and im actually a little shocked it took this long for anyone to notice :)
Dec 09 00:11:09 <oilsworkn> i first noticed it when working on wirc
Dec 09 00:11:25 <oilsworkn> then like the next day or after that someone was like "hey, you know it doesnt delete cookies or databases?"
Dec 09 00:12:07 <oilsworkn> i wonder what else special palms app remove functions do
Dec 09 00:15:39 <oilsworkn> anyways, adding the replace function into preware shouldn't take long at all
Dec 09 00:18:50 <egaudet> oilsworkn, two things, 1) The backups made for patches are strictly used by EPR and nowhere else, they are a way back but only when you can't uninstall for odd reasons
Dec 09 00:19:40 <egaudet> 2) when all of the files are changed due to OTA all of the md5sums will match palm recorded md5sums in /usr/ipkg/info/*md5sums file.  Thus AUPT will now see this as the patch is already gone and wipe out the backup files and return success
Dec 09 00:19:59 <egaudet> if SOME but not all files were OTA updated, then we are in an "odd" situation that an immediate EPR is needed for
Dec 09 00:20:39 <egaudet> the only time SOME but not all should be updated is if a patch spans multiple palm packages and not all of those palm package was updated
Dec 09 00:21:40 <egaudet> the only way around that would be some serious on the fly patch modification ability, which I think is not worth the risks
Dec 09 00:22:32 <oilsworkn> well thats a much better explanation then "magic" :)
Dec 09 00:22:57 <egaudet> the postinst I'm about to push will now re-backup a file if the file is determined to be stock md5sum so as to avoid keeping old backup files after an OTA if new patches are installed before all old ones removed
Dec 09 00:23:40 <oilsworkn> so it checks the file against the md5sum list and knows that "
Dec 09 00:23:47 <oilsworkn> knows that its ok
Dec 09 00:23:53 <egaudet> yep
Dec 09 00:23:55 <oilsworkn> even though its not what it was expecting the stock file to be
Dec 09 00:24:00 <egaudet> wait
Dec 09 00:24:14 <egaudet> what is it?  removal installation or epr?
Dec 09 00:24:21 <oilsworkn> the removal
Dec 09 00:24:48 <oilsworkn> so you install patch, OTA, remove patch
Dec 09 00:24:50 <egaudet> the backup file is not "expected stock file"
Dec 09 00:25:06 <oilsworkn> right
Dec 09 00:25:09 <oilsworkn> its the original file
Dec 09 00:25:11 <egaudet> so after the OTA when you remove the patch, all the files will be seen as stock based on md5sum
Dec 09 00:25:12 <oilsworkn> stock or not
Dec 09 00:25:23 <egaudet> and thus all the orig backups will be wiped out
Dec 09 00:25:23 <oilsworkn> ok
Dec 09 00:25:28 <oilsworkn> ok
Dec 09 00:25:37 <egaudet> and then prerm returns success in which allows preware to uninstall the ipkg data
Dec 09 00:26:29 <egaudet> so the only loophole aside from modifactions outside of AUPT scope is the multi-package patch in the rare event that Palm doesn't update all the pacakges the patch touched
Dec 09 00:30:55 <debilater> rwhitby: why can't i use regular shell expressions outside a script-endscript section in an /etc/event.d file?
Dec 09 00:31:10 <rwhitby> debilater: dunno
Dec 09 00:31:19 <rwhitby> must be an upstart thing
Dec 09 00:31:21 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 09 00:35:08 <egaudet> rwhitby, dBsooner, pushed those two changes.  rwhitby when you get a chance if you could rebuild test feed.  Hoping this will be the final touch
Dec 09 00:37:43 <debilater> rwhitby: ok, i've put it into the script part. commited (and tagged), i hope that's ok now. i tested the renamed daemon on the phone, works like a charm...
Dec 09 00:38:24 <dBsooner> I pushe dwhat changes?
Dec 09 00:38:36 <dBsooner> s/push dwhat/pushed what/
Dec 09 00:42:13 <egaudet> I meant I pushed
Dec 09 00:43:18 <dBsooner> bout to say.. that's magic
Dec 09 00:45:02 <dBsooner> egaudet: mass version bump tomorrow?
Dec 09 00:45:06 <dBsooner> possibly tonight?
Dec 09 00:45:24 <egaudet> thursday night MAYBE
Dec 09 00:45:51 <dBsooner> im tellin you.. the sooner the better.. because not only does it need to be pushed.. the user needs to have UPDATED for it to work
Dec 09 00:46:07 <dBsooner> they have to have the updated package to have the new PRERM
Dec 09 00:46:14 <egaudet> i know
Dec 09 00:46:31 <dBsooner> and I doubt everyone checks more than once a day, if that.
Dec 09 00:46:33 <egaudet> but worst case if we dont get it out is everyone still has to run EPR, worst case if we get it out wrong is who knows
Dec 09 00:46:54 <dBsooner> But I found no other issues than what I pointed out.
Dec 09 00:46:58 <dBsooner> which really weren't issues.
Dec 09 00:47:04 <egaudet> we have to re-test now
Dec 09 00:47:11 <egaudet> well after the test feed is rebuilt
Dec 09 00:47:12 <dBsooner> grrr
Dec 09 00:47:27 <egaudet> altough the changes I pushed are small, I want to see a nice perfect test run
Dec 09 00:47:31 * dBsooner begs oil to build a "super secret test" Preware so I dont' have to hit "ok" a billion damn times.
Dec 09 00:47:42 <egaudet> yea that ok a million times sucks
Dec 09 00:47:43 <egaudet> lol
Dec 09 00:47:54 <dBsooner> please oil?
Dec 09 00:47:55 <egaudet> it's ipkgservice though I believe dBsooner
Dec 09 00:48:03 <dBsooner> ok then. please rwhitby?
Dec 09 00:48:07 <egaudet> can always pull and build a personal one
Dec 09 00:48:12 <dBsooner> too lazy
Dec 09 00:48:48 <Robi_> i'm with dBsooner on this one
Dec 09 00:49:20 <dBsooner> you pushed what two changes?
Dec 09 00:49:26 <dBsooner> the postinst checking md5sum and whatelse?
Dec 09 00:49:26 <Robi_> and it's my bday..
Dec 09 00:49:33 <egaudet> check the gitweb
Dec 09 00:49:36 <dBsooner> any explanation on my othe 3
Dec 09 00:49:56 <egaudet> your other 3 are created files
Dec 09 00:50:11 <egaudet> I added removal of the created files to prerm
Dec 09 00:50:12 <dBsooner> ok.. so shouldn't you be deleting those?
Dec 09 00:50:15 <dBsooner> ok
Dec 09 00:50:29 <dBsooner> i have an idea
Dec 09 00:50:33 * dBsooner write s shell script
Dec 09 00:50:35 <egaudet> of course only once everything else is deemed ok
Dec 09 00:50:38 <dBsooner> forget preware
Dec 09 00:50:47 <egaudet> exactly what I was going to do hehe
Dec 09 00:50:49 <dBsooner> I'll just do a for loop on my 45 packages
Dec 09 00:51:09 <dBsooner> ok, then you write it and share it
Dec 09 00:51:14 <egaudet> I will
Dec 09 00:51:19 <dBsooner> I don't get off work for at least another 15 minutes
Dec 09 00:51:23 <egaudet> maybe should start doctor process now then
Dec 09 00:51:40 <Robi_> here's a question, how many of you actually use the wavy menu action to select the launcher vs just button/tap
Dec 09 00:51:44 <dBsooner> I can't doctor while I am at work.. ;)
Dec 09 00:51:54 * dBsooner does
Dec 09 00:51:58 <dBsooner> because I don't have a launcher
Dec 09 00:52:09 <dBsooner> I "hide" mine
Dec 09 00:52:10 * debilaterAWAY is away [receiving transmission.../l:on]
Dec 09 00:52:14 <Robi_> o rly
Dec 09 00:53:10 <egaudet> screw the wave
Dec 09 00:53:15 <egaudet> I just do up gesture
Dec 09 00:53:23 * oilsworkn never uses wave
Dec 09 00:53:33 <egaudet> i dont use wave nor middle button
Dec 09 00:54:08 <Robi_> rarely do I do the wave
Dec 09 00:54:16 <Robi_> when showing off the phone
Dec 09 00:54:17 <oilsworkn> i use middle button
Dec 09 00:54:50 <dBsooner> egaudet: I do the up gesture for the luancher
Dec 09 00:54:55 <dBsooner> but what about QUICK launch?
Dec 09 00:54:58 <dBsooner> the 4 buttons on the bar
Dec 09 00:55:04 <dBsooner> my bar is gone
Dec 09 00:55:25 * oilsworkn uses the quick launch
Dec 09 00:55:32 <Robi_> did you also resize the windows to use that space?
Dec 09 00:55:43 <dBsooner> yes?
Dec 09 00:55:47 <dBsooner> dunno, its a patch
Dec 09 00:55:57 <Robi_> have another gadget running there?
Dec 09 00:56:38 <dBsooner> no
Dec 09 00:56:44 <dBsooner> it's "hide app launcher"
Dec 09 00:56:51 <dBsooner> or hide quick launcher
Dec 09 00:56:58 <dBsooner> i think the apps take the whole screen
Dec 09 00:57:09 <oilsworkn> they dont
Dec 09 00:57:12 <dBsooner> I can't confirm that right now because SOMEONE made me doctor to 1.2.1
Dec 09 00:57:14 <oilsworkn> there is bottom space like the launcher is there
Dec 09 00:57:25 <Robi_> in full screen yes, but in card view, ..
Dec 09 00:57:28 <oilsworkn> like the quick launch*
Dec 09 00:57:33 <oilsworkn> in card view
Dec 09 00:57:41 <oilsworkn> there is extra bottom space below cards
Dec 09 00:57:49 <oilsworkn> tis not taller or vertically centered
Dec 09 00:57:55 <oilsworkn> the launcher goes full screen though
Dec 09 00:57:59 <egaudet> oilsworkn, the patch modifies the app launcher I believe
Dec 09 00:58:02 <egaudet> to fit whole screen
Dec 09 00:58:03 <Robi_> sweet just noticed update all is supposed to work
Dec 09 00:58:05 <oilsworkn> right
Dec 09 00:58:07 <dBsooner> yes, it does
Dec 09 00:58:07 <oilsworkn> the launcher
Dec 09 00:58:10 <oilsworkn> but not the cards
Dec 09 00:58:15 <oilsworkn> the cards act as if its still there
Dec 09 00:58:17 <dBsooner> I dont' recall there being empt space
Dec 09 00:58:19 <egaudet> the cards cover it anyway...
Dec 09 00:58:23 <oilsworkn> when in card view
Dec 09 00:58:29 <dBsooner> I recall having cards covering the whole thing
Dec 09 00:58:31 <egaudet> oh
Dec 09 00:58:49 <Robi_> an exposee card view would be kinda neat
Dec 09 00:58:51 <egaudet> card view must make it seem like big blank space on bottom i get ya
Dec 09 00:58:59 <oilsworkn> yeah
Dec 09 00:59:14 <dBsooner> egaudet: get that script written.. I am headed home!
Dec 09 00:59:19 * dBsooner out!
Dec 09 01:00:06 * oilsworkn is also going home
Dec 09 01:00:32 <Robi_> "this version has no secret options." ;[
Dec 09 01:00:51 <Robi_> needs more secret optiones!
Dec 09 01:01:03 <Robi_> like cowbell!
Dec 09 01:02:20 <Robi_> wow updates install fast now
Dec 09 01:02:28 <Robi_> sweetness
Dec 09 01:03:25 <jauderho> is there a way to keep the screen off while the pre is on the touchstone?
Dec 09 01:03:40 <jauderho> just picked up my first one today.
Dec 09 01:21:29 * debilaterAWAY is back [/bin/back/gone: 29m18s]
Dec 09 01:35:12 <dBsooner> egaudet: script?
Dec 09 01:35:26 <egaudet> my pre hates me?
Dec 09 01:35:32 <dBsooner> you suck
Dec 09 01:35:34 <egaudet> why is my patch file suffixed with 0000644
Dec 09 01:36:03 <egaudet> i got the script almost working?
Dec 09 01:36:09 <dBsooner> what?
Dec 09 01:36:13 <dBsooner> it should be like 5 lines
Dec 09 01:36:34 <dBsooner> for v in $PACKS ; do
Dec 09 01:36:40 <egaudet> but when ipkg -o /var install a patch, i get a file /var/usr/palm/app*/blah/blah.patch000644
Dec 09 01:36:41 <dBsooner> ipkg -o /var install $v
Dec 09 01:37:15 <dBsooner> . /bin/sh /var/usr/lib/ipkg/info/$v.postinst
Dec 09 01:37:24 <egaudet> except I want it to work with remvoe too and i added printing and stuff
Dec 09 01:37:24 <dBsooner> done
Dec 09 01:37:29 <egaudet> :sigh:
Dec 09 01:37:30 <egaudet> forget it
Dec 09 01:37:36 <dBsooner> just do it the easy way
Dec 09 01:38:05 <dBsooner> has the repo been rebuilt with new changes?
Dec 09 01:38:55 * dBsooner writes a grep/awk script for his webos-patches_before.log to spit just the 45 packs I had installed
Dec 09 01:38:56 <dBsooner> :)
Dec 09 01:39:55 <egaudet> I'm gonna snap
Dec 09 01:40:18 <egaudet> http://webos.pastebin.com/m26e73c76
Dec 09 01:40:24 <sryan> is there any cpu overhead associated with running terminal on the pre? is using this a good method of seeing cpu usage of the os/apps?
Dec 09 01:41:29 <dBsooner> why is it doing that egaudet?
Dec 09 01:41:40 <egaudet> I HAVE NO IDEA!! :(
Dec 09 01:41:47 <egaudet> dBsooner, here's my script
Dec 09 01:41:49 <egaudet> http://omploader.org/vMnk5MA
Dec 09 01:42:05 <egaudet> mass_patch i [list_file]
Dec 09 01:42:09 <egaudet> and mass_patch r [list_file]
Dec 09 01:42:18 <egaudet> default list_file if none supplied is /media/internal/my_list
Dec 09 01:42:50 <rwhitby> egaudet: rebuilding test feed now
Dec 09 01:43:03 <egaudet> rwhitby, have you ever seen that ^^ my pastebin
Dec 09 01:43:04 <dBsooner> nice script
Dec 09 01:43:09 <rwhitby> egaudet: nope
Dec 09 01:43:23 <dBsooner> what are the perms of the folder?
Dec 09 01:43:49 <egaudet> drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Dec  8 20:39 org.webosinternals.patches.add-onscreen-keyboard
Dec 09 01:44:03 <rwhitby> egaudet: 644 is a chmod value - does that give a clue?
Dec 09 01:44:26 <egaudet> nope, i assume it's some weird permission thing but no idea why it would do that
Dec 09 01:48:32 <dBsooner> grep "org.webosinternals.patches" webos-patches
Dec 09 01:48:32 <dBsooner> .log | awk -F/ {print $2}
Dec 09 01:49:07 <dBsooner> woops.. those lines go tegether
Dec 09 01:49:33 <egaudet> whatever I'm doctoring
Dec 09 01:49:39 <dBsooner> lol
Dec 09 01:49:42 <egaudet> reboot didn't fix it
Dec 09 01:49:45 <egaudet> i seriously f'd something
Dec 09 01:49:55 <dBsooner> why doesn't my command work?
Dec 09 01:50:03 <sugardave> you're not commanding enough?
Dec 09 01:50:12 <egaudet> your command doesn't make sense
Dec 09 01:50:16 <sugardave> be firmer
Dec 09 01:50:21 <dBsooner> sigh
Dec 09 01:50:24 <egaudet> space is already file separator for awk
Dec 09 01:50:30 <egaudet> oh /
Dec 09 01:50:32 <egaudet> yea
Dec 09 01:50:33 <dBsooner> yes /
Dec 09 01:50:35 <egaudet> what is .log
Dec 09 01:50:38 <egaudet> cat .log
Dec 09 01:50:48 <dBsooner> those lones go together
Dec 09 01:50:51 <dBsooner> lines*
Dec 09 01:51:12 <egaudet> so what does your command return?
Dec 09 01:51:17 <dBsooner> grep "org.webosinternals.patches" webos-patches.log | awk -F/ {print $2}
Dec 09 01:51:31 <dBsooner> awk: cmd. line:1: Unexpected end of string
Dec 09 01:51:34 <egaudet> '{print $2}'
Dec 09 01:51:54 <dBsooner> yeah, that fixed it
Dec 09 01:51:55 <dBsooner> thanks
Dec 09 01:52:06 <dBsooner> stupid quotes
Dec 09 01:52:49 <egaudet> well while my phone doctors, I'll go watch big bang
Dec 09 01:52:52 <egaudet> brb
Dec 09 01:58:07 <rwhitby> egaudet: feed is updated
Dec 09 02:17:16 <egaudet> thanks
Dec 09 02:29:39 <DrFunk> rwhitby: you around ?
Dec 09 02:30:40 <DrFunk> wow you guys can't be that dead
Dec 09 02:31:08 <DrFunk> can someone help me out with the camera ?
Dec 09 02:33:14 <DrFunk> I was wondering if I can get help or if a patch can be made for the camera to take black and white pics
Dec 09 02:33:34 <dBsooner> I idon't know.
Dec 09 02:33:57 <DrFunk> dBsooner: don't no what part ?
Dec 09 02:34:02 <dBsooner> either
Dec 09 02:34:12 <DrFunk> lmao
Dec 09 02:35:04 <DrFunk> dBsooner: who do you think I should talk to ? PuffTheMagic
Dec 09 02:35:20 <dBsooner> zsoc?
Dec 09 02:35:39 <DrFunk> ok
Dec 09 02:35:47 <DrFunk> thanks
Dec 09 02:36:05 <DrFunk> hey Tim is back lol
Dec 09 02:37:18 <DrFunk> dBsooner: if you talk to rwhitby tell him to plz contact me ok
Dec 09 02:37:31 <dBsooner> ok..
Dec 09 02:37:47 <DrFunk> ty
Dec 09 02:40:04 <egaudet> so much for testing
Dec 09 02:40:11 <egaudet> I hate my pre
Dec 09 02:40:19 <egaudet> or rather my Pre hates me
Dec 09 02:43:51 <dBsooner> what?
Dec 09 02:43:54 <dBsooner> what did you do?
Dec 09 02:44:39 <egaudet> i doctored to 1.2.1
Dec 09 02:44:43 <egaudet> and now can't novaterm
Dec 09 02:45:11 <egaudet> it doesn't notice my usb is plugged in at all
Dec 09 02:46:36 <egaudet> ok now it works
Dec 09 02:48:21 <egaudet> dBsooner, should I use your preware bootstrap or whatever?
Dec 09 02:49:38 <egaudet> Installing org.webosinternal.ipkgservice v: FAILED
Dec 09 02:49:38 <egaudet> Failed to download org.webosinternals.ipkgservice__all.ipk
Dec 09 02:53:32 <dBsooner> don't choose y
Dec 09 02:53:34 <dBsooner> say n
Dec 09 02:53:36 <dBsooner> I havne't fixed that yet
Dec 09 02:53:43 <dBsooner> there is no ipkgservice in the testing feed right now
Dec 09 02:53:54 <dBsooner> weee.. all 45 installed successfully
Dec 09 02:56:37 <dBsooner> root@castle:/media/internal# find / -name *.orig | wc -l
Dec 09 02:56:37 <dBsooner> 82
Dec 09 02:56:37 <dBsooner> root@castle:/media/internal# find / -name *.webosinternals.orig | wc -l
Dec 09 02:56:37 <dBsooner> 76
Dec 09 02:57:08 <egaudet> can you install vkb?
Dec 09 02:57:11 <egaudet> this is pissing me OFF
Dec 09 02:57:23 <oil_> :(
Dec 09 02:58:50 <egaudet> dBsooner, hmm I get some .orig files
Dec 09 02:59:00 <dBsooner> yeah, i have 6
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 09 02:59:57 2009