**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 17 02:59:58 2009
Dec 17 03:01:44 <nebula> rwhitby: yeah, usps
Dec 17 03:01:52 <nebula> heading out now, ttyl
Dec 17 03:01:59 <nebula> new job starts tomorrow!
Dec 17 03:02:07 <nebula> senior network engineer
Dec 17 03:02:11 <nebula> wewt.
Dec 17 03:03:03 <egaudet> trac ticket added i believe
Dec 17 03:04:49 <rwhitby> egaudet: what's a good patch to test with?
Dec 17 03:05:09 <egaudet> to test what with?
Dec 17 03:05:13 <rwhitby> aupt
Dec 17 03:05:35 <rwhitby> upgrading from 1.2.1 to 1.3.1
Dec 17 03:05:51 <egaudet> I'd say VKB is the best single patch to test because it covers the most cases, created dirs, images, created files, patched files
Dec 17 03:06:42 <rwhitby> ok
Dec 17 03:06:59 <egaudet> hmm so the logic in Preware seems to check if a package is depending on another when updating?
Dec 17 03:07:26 <rwhitby> yes
Dec 17 03:07:27 <egaudet> got a chicken-egg here
Dec 17 03:07:43 <egaudet> since updating in patch-world is remove/install
Dec 17 03:09:03 <egaudet> you can't remove the dependent package first because this package is depending on it, but you can't update this package until the dependent package is up to date.  Or so the logic is
Dec 17 03:10:01 <rwhitby> yeah, I think we have to remove stuff in reverse dependency order, then update stuff, then reinstall in dependency order
Dec 17 03:10:19 <egaudet> so for dependencies, update needs to be remove A, remove B, install B, install A if A is dependent on B
Dec 17 03:11:19 <rwhitby> egaudet: agreed
Dec 17 03:11:40 <rwhitby> now, what if there is a third package C, which depends on A, but does not need to be updated itself?
Dec 17 03:12:07 <egaudet> I think you just have to "update" it
Dec 17 03:12:23 <egaudet> which shouldn't effect if it it doesn't need updating since it will be a remove/install of the same thing
Dec 17 03:12:32 <egaudet> s/effect/affect/
Dec 17 03:12:33 <infobot> egaudet meant: which shouldn't affect if it it doesn't need updating since it will be a remove/install of the same thing
Dec 17 03:12:55 <rwhitby> ok, better put all that in the trac :-)
Dec 17 03:13:07 <rwhitby> what's the work-around?
Dec 17 03:13:42 <muesli> hey guys. is there a working icq messaging plugin for the pre?
Dec 17 03:15:04 <rwhitby> muesli: there's a thread on PreCentral about it
Dec 17 03:15:19 <rwhitby> it's not packaged for Preware yet, since it's early alpha.
Dec 17 03:15:41 <muesli> ok, thanks :)
Dec 17 03:16:04 <ird> I should take a look at that.
Dec 17 03:16:11 <ird> Wonder if it does fb yet.
Dec 17 03:16:31 <egaudet> the workaround is to manually remove A I guess
Dec 17 03:16:50 <muesli> ird: yeah, it seems it does
Dec 17 03:17:35 <egaudet> the "error" when tapping update in preware currently on a dependent package is show in green (stdout)
Dec 17 03:18:11 <egaudet> but it should never error out to ipkg log like I guess once dependencies are handled for this case
Dec 17 03:19:56 <rwhitby> egaudet: we can trap the "error" and move it to stderr - what's the exact string?
Dec 17 03:20:34 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 17 03:20:58 <rwhitby> (updating to 1.3.1 now)
Dec 17 03:24:18 <egaudet> (I lost the error string)
Dec 17 03:24:38 <egaudet> I don't know why I put that in parentheses lol
Dec 17 03:25:10 <PuffTheMagic> wazzap
Dec 17 03:25:29 <egaudet> wasapi
Dec 17 03:26:06 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: just got back from the holliday party for this grad program
Dec 17 03:26:15 <PuffTheMagic> seems like i am basically accepted
Dec 17 03:26:28 <PuffTheMagic> they just need my official transcript before they can say it officially
Dec 17 03:26:39 <PuffTheMagic> but i keep getting introduced as the new student
Dec 17 03:27:02 <MijoroJordan> howdy howdy
Dec 17 03:27:05 <MijoroJordan> fresh and rowdy
Dec 17 03:27:30 <MijoroJordan> who knows what's going on around here?
Dec 17 03:27:35 <egaudet> nice, congrats PuffTheMagic
Dec 17 03:27:41 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: thanks
Dec 17 03:28:07 <PuffTheMagic> now learning Lisp is unavoidable
Dec 17 03:28:16 <egaudet> lol
Dec 17 03:28:57 <PuffTheMagic> there are more people using ACT-R at RPI than there are at CMU where ACT-R was created
Dec 17 03:28:58 <PuffTheMagic> :D
Dec 17 03:29:46 <rwhitby> MijoroJordan: what do you want to know?
Dec 17 03:30:07 <MijoroJordan> I wrote a plugin
Dec 17 03:30:26 <rwhitby> cool, what type?
Dec 17 03:30:26 <PuffTheMagic> MijoroJordan: really?
Dec 17 03:30:27 <MijoroJordan> im ok with javascript, but im not much good with the rest of the system you guys have going on
Dec 17 03:30:31 <egaudet> rwhitby, how about this string to be trapped "Either the ipkg or the package index are corrupt"
Dec 17 03:30:41 <MijoroJordan> so I'm not sure how to package it so i can share it
Dec 17 03:30:44 <PuffTheMagic> MijoroJordan: yeah what is this plugin
Dec 17 03:30:49 <PuffTheMagic> there is only 1 so far
Dec 17 03:30:53 <PuffTheMagic> so u are #2
Dec 17 03:30:57 <egaudet> when ipkg update is needed
Dec 17 03:31:27 <PuffTheMagic> MijoroJordan: come on spill the beans or u get no packaging help
Dec 17 03:31:28 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Dec 17 03:31:32 <MijoroJordan> oh, sry
Dec 17 03:31:39 <MijoroJordan> its the camera patch
Dec 17 03:31:47 <PuffTheMagic> oh wait
Dec 17 03:31:47 <MijoroJordan> i was in here the other day
Dec 17 03:31:53 <PuffTheMagic> patch or plugin?
Dec 17 03:32:12 <MijoroJordan> well im using a different setup than the way you guys have most of the patches ive seen
Dec 17 03:32:21 <MijoroJordan> i didn't want to modify any of Palm's files
Dec 17 03:32:26 <MijoroJordan> so i wrote an extension
Dec 17 03:32:39 <PuffTheMagic> an "extension"?
Dec 17 03:32:48 <MijoroJordan> it wraps some of the existing methods
Dec 17 03:33:01 <MijoroJordan> injecting my code, and then calling the existing methods
Dec 17 03:33:02 <MijoroJordan> unaltered
Dec 17 03:33:25 <MijoroJordan> i think its more resiliant to version changes than modifying the actual files
Dec 17 03:33:27 <PuffTheMagic> the unlock into camera mode stuff?
Dec 17 03:33:43 <PuffTheMagic> yeah absolutly, not touching palm files is most ideal
Dec 17 03:34:08 <MijoroJordan> yea
Dec 17 03:34:21 <MijoroJordan> i took the patch i wrote before, put it in its own file
Dec 17 03:34:26 <MijoroJordan> included it in sources.json
Dec 17 03:34:29 <PuffTheMagic> yeah so then....
Dec 17 03:34:38 <PuffTheMagic> you dont have a app or patch ;)
Dec 17 03:34:51 <PuffTheMagic> you need a ipk that is more like vkb
Dec 17 03:34:55 <PuffTheMagic> or a service
Dec 17 03:35:04 <MijoroJordan> preware wouldn't be able to install this?
Dec 17 03:35:06 <PuffTheMagic> since i am assuming u drop your files into the frameworks dir?
Dec 17 03:35:12 <PuffTheMagic> preware can install anything
Dec 17 03:35:44 <MijoroJordan> its in com.palm.app.phone/extensions/cameraLaunch.sj
Dec 17 03:35:51 <MijoroJordan> and an entry in sources.js
Dec 17 03:36:05 <PuffTheMagic> oh well
Dec 17 03:36:11 <PuffTheMagic> modifying sources still needs a patch
Dec 17 03:36:18 <MijoroJordan> right
Dec 17 03:36:27 <MijoroJordan> im hoping this will still work with the existing tools
Dec 17 03:36:27 <PuffTheMagic> so even though u are creating a new file
Dec 17 03:36:40 <PuffTheMagic> your best bet is to make it all a patch
Dec 17 03:36:50 <MijoroJordan> thats what im trying to do
Dec 17 03:36:53 <PuffTheMagic> and package it like the rest of the patches
Dec 17 03:36:57 <MijoroJordan> the only reason i wrote it this other way
Dec 17 03:37:15 <PuffTheMagic> u dont have to justify it, i already understand
Dec 17 03:37:15 <MijoroJordan> is so that -- i hope -- the same patch can be applied to future versions without needing to be updated
Dec 17 03:37:42 <PuffTheMagic> well you have a few options here
Dec 17 03:37:54 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 17 03:37:54 <PuffTheMagic> you could make it all 1 patch
Dec 17 03:38:01 <PuffTheMagic> you could make it 2 patches
Dec 17 03:38:07 <PuffTheMagic> you could make it 1 patch and 1 file
Dec 17 03:38:08 <egaudet> I think it's less resistant to changes if you are duck punching?
Dec 17 03:38:18 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: he is not duckpuchning
Dec 17 03:38:21 <egaudet> cameraLuanch.js, does it override methods?
Dec 17 03:38:39 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, he has to be
Dec 17 03:39:00 <PuffTheMagic> he he is doing does not sound like what I understand duck punching to be
Dec 17 03:39:10 <PuffTheMagic> since he still has to modify existing file
Dec 17 03:39:25 <egaudet> I understand duck punching to be overwriting existing methods so as not to touch the original method
Dec 17 03:39:33 <egaudet> still need some way to get the override in
Dec 17 03:39:48 <egaudet> so it's more like duckpunching than anything else I think?
Dec 17 03:40:22 <egaudet> but anyway, if you override a method you basically guarantee your patch to be old/obsoleted when that method changes.  If you PATCH a method, you are more resistant to changes in that method that aren't in the exact context you modified
Dec 17 03:40:38 <PuffTheMagic> yeah its close
Dec 17 03:40:52 <PuffTheMagic> but i still didnt think duckpunching requires patches
Dec 17 03:41:15 <MijoroJordan> it wraps a method
Dec 17 03:41:18 <MijoroJordan> whats duckpunching
Dec 17 03:41:24 <MijoroJordan> essentially:
Dec 17 03:41:28 <muesli> gnah, managed to fill my root on the palm rather quickly. is there anything i can symlink to /var safely?
Dec 17 03:41:31 <PuffTheMagic> its like donkeypunching
Dec 17 03:41:35 <egaudet> lol
Dec 17 03:41:38 <MijoroJordan> oldMethod = Existing method
Dec 17 03:41:45 <oil> except with more feathers
Dec 17 03:41:53 <MijoroJordan> newMethod = function(){ my code; oldMethod() }
Dec 17 03:42:00 <MijoroJordan> ExistingMethod = NewMethod
Dec 17 03:42:10 <egaudet> basically
Dec 17 03:42:20 <egaudet> is that what you are doing?
Dec 17 03:42:21 <MijoroJordan> as best i can do through irc
Dec 17 03:42:24 <MijoroJordan> yea
Dec 17 03:42:47 <egaudet> ok well then that's better I guess
Dec 17 03:43:06 <egaudet> if you can actually call OUT to the old method it's more resistant to changes and better than patching you are right
Dec 17 03:43:52 <egaudet> of course it will still be made into a patch, but it's a good strategy
Dec 17 03:44:03 <egaudet> the patch will just be creating that .js file and adding it to sources.json
Dec 17 03:44:08 <MijoroJordan> it's still "patching" the app, just not the specific files
Dec 17 03:44:13 <egaudet> right right
Dec 17 03:44:21 <MijoroJordan> ok exactly, we're on the same page
Dec 17 03:44:55 <MijoroJordan> rwhitby sent me his email to ask for help on patching
Dec 17 03:45:04 <MijoroJordan> but im reading on git.webos-internals.org now
Dec 17 03:45:16 <MijoroJordan> Do i have to write this by hand?
Dec 17 03:45:33 <egaudet> write what by hand?
Dec 17 03:46:02 <MijoroJordan> the actual patch
Dec 17 03:46:09 <MijoroJordan> see... theres where my knowledge falls short
Dec 17 03:46:12 <egaudet> what OS do you use?
Dec 17 03:46:23 <MijoroJordan> i can make the phone do whatever, not sure what else is going on in this community that lets us share it tho
Dec 17 03:46:24 <MijoroJordan> mac
Dec 17 03:46:41 <egaudet> ok I assume mac has diff
Dec 17 03:46:58 <egaudet> do you know anything about diff or patches in general?
Dec 17 03:47:28 <MijoroJordan> i understand the concept
Dec 17 03:47:36 <MijoroJordan> and that patches look like svn entries
Dec 17 03:48:02 <MijoroJordan> but not what tools to run to compare diffs / export those differences into a file i can upload and get listed in preware
Dec 17 03:48:15 <egaudet> patches are basically just the output from a contextual diff utility
Dec 17 03:48:46 <MijoroJordan> kk
Dec 17 03:49:20 <egaudet> diff -BurNp <old_dir> <new_dir>  will create a diff to stdout of the contents of the directories
Dec 17 03:49:45 <MijoroJordan> what about new files / directories?
Dec 17 03:49:46 <egaudet> if you use a source control tool locally like svn, you can probably generate diffs/patches from commits
Dec 17 03:50:05 <egaudet> the above will pick up new files and dirs
Dec 17 03:50:11 <MijoroJordan> cool
Dec 17 03:50:16 <MijoroJordan> lemme give that a shot, brb
Dec 17 03:50:20 <egaudet> the N option tells it to pick up new files
Dec 17 03:50:44 <MijoroJordan> oh, one problem
Dec 17 03:51:06 <MijoroJordan> my old_dir is on my device
Dec 17 03:51:10 <egaudet> I'm assuming you want to learn this stuff, if you simply wanted a quick tool to do it for you, Jason created a diff utility that others have used.  Not sure if it is capable of new files or not, haven't used it.
Dec 17 03:51:25 <MijoroJordan> im always down to learn
Dec 17 03:51:46 <egaudet> you can extract from the doctor to get the old_dir if you want
Dec 17 03:52:01 <egaudet> creating the patch against stock files from the doctor is usually how I do it
Dec 17 03:52:34 <muesli> i'm trying to install the gregroll messaging 1.2.3 plugin via ssh with ipkg install filename
Dec 17 03:53:05 <muesli> but it doesn't seem to extract the files, and the postinst script fails then... anyone got a clue what's going on there?
Dec 17 03:54:34 <egaudet> never ever use ipkg install
Dec 17 03:54:46 <egaudet> ipkg -o /var install
Dec 17 03:54:58 <egaudet> then manually run the postinst
Dec 17 03:59:17 <muesli> egaudet: yikes, thanks
Dec 17 03:59:29 <muesli> egaudet: guess i cocked up my root then :/
Dec 17 04:04:03 <muesli> hm, installing the messaging plugin to /var didn't help much either. it's not showing up in the accounts list
Dec 17 04:04:15 <muesli> egaudet: do i have to install the webos patch 2.5.9 to /var, too?
Dec 17 04:17:16 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: u gonna join in on some wirc/wircd dev work again soon?
Dec 17 04:21:43 <muesli> ok, got the messaging plugins up and running. thanks for all the help
Dec 17 04:22:01 <muesli> just one last question. when i update to a new firmware, will this wipe my entire / (root) on my palm/
Dec 17 04:23:42 <MijoroJordan> egaudet, ive got some nice diffs here
Dec 17 04:47:21 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, 'soon' yeah.  After AUPT next is vkb and wirc
Dec 17 04:47:50 <egaudet> MijoroJordan, put them into one .patch file and submit :)
Dec 17 04:50:09 <MijoroJordan> ok, so cameraLaunch.patch is just a text file?
Dec 17 04:55:03 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: you have been talking bout that shit for weeks now
Dec 17 04:55:11 <PuffTheMagic> when u gonna get AUPT and vkb done
Dec 17 04:55:33 <egaudet> MijoroJordan, yea diffs are just text files, .patch is just what we use for the filename suffix
Dec 17 04:55:42 <egaudet> AUPT is in testing
Dec 17 04:55:57 <egaudet> VKB needs a lot of dev time but I'll be splitting between vkb and wirc and whatever else
Dec 17 04:56:22 <sslow> MijoroJordan:what does your camera patch do?
Dec 17 04:56:26 <egaudet> I've had sporadic times to develop lately (and no I actually haven't played COD in like 2 weeks!)
Dec 17 04:56:51 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: http://pastebin.com/m41ce756b
Dec 17 04:58:24 <egaudet> hahahahaaaaa
Dec 17 04:58:38 <egaudet> that's funny
Dec 17 05:00:27 <|Jason8|> Any projects around for putting android on the Pre?
Dec 17 05:04:08 <sslow> anybody here up for getting this to work on WebOS?  http://www.lifeclever.com/17-powerful-bookmarklets-for-your-iphone/
Dec 17 05:06:45 <MijoroJordan> egaudet, im looking at some patch files
Dec 17 05:07:32 <MijoroJordan> whats the format?
Dec 17 05:08:00 <MijoroJordan> some have comments, not really sure how to lay this out
Dec 17 05:08:24 <egaudet> the format is the output of the diff command
Dec 17 05:08:47 <egaudet> GNU patch that uses these files will ignore the comments above or basically any text that isn't between the diff lines
Dec 17 05:08:54 <MijoroJordan> what about the lines that start with Index
Dec 17 05:09:07 <MijoroJordan> and some have comments in them
Dec 17 05:09:15 <MijoroJordan> oh
Dec 17 05:09:18 <egaudet> for example?
Dec 17 05:09:40 <MijoroJordan> the volume for taking pictures one
Dec 17 05:09:44 <MijoroJordan> has comments on top
Dec 17 05:10:07 <egaudet> yea you can put any text you want at top
Dec 17 05:12:31 <egaudet> the GNU patch binary we use parses the diff looking for the headers first (---/+++ lines)
Dec 17 05:12:50 <egaudet> when I say "we use" I mean the standard linux GNU patch
Dec 17 05:16:38 <MijoroJordan> when does it stop?
Dec 17 05:21:13 <egaudet> the @@ numbers tell it how much more to read I believe
Dec 17 05:21:26 <egaudet> generally patch files are just created with diff utility and not hand modified
Dec 17 05:21:39 <egaudet> aside from adding comments or other information at the top
Dec 17 05:28:07 <MijoroJordan> ok cool
Dec 17 05:28:07 <MijoroJordan> thanks
Dec 17 05:29:45 <egaudet> http://www.dbsooner.com/webospatchupload.php
Dec 17 05:30:06 <MijoroJordan> can i change the "patch homepage" after I upload it
Dec 17 05:30:40 <MijoroJordan> and whats the rule on incorporating someone else's patch?
Dec 17 05:30:43 <egaudet> yea if it changes just let us know
Dec 17 05:31:02 <egaudet> dBsooner is the patch meister and does mostly all the packaging up stuff, so he'd be the first to ping
Dec 17 05:31:17 <MijoroJordan> cool
Dec 17 05:31:24 <egaudet> I can do it as well
Dec 17 05:32:07 <MijoroJordan> ok what about combining patches?
Dec 17 05:32:22 <egaudet> There's no "rules" per se, I mean you have to obey the license.
Dec 17 05:32:37 <MijoroJordan> ok idk what the license is
Dec 17 05:32:46 <MijoroJordan> can i say that my patch requires the other
Dec 17 05:32:57 <MijoroJordan> so preware installs them both
Dec 17 05:33:01 <MijoroJordan> (like it was a prerequisite)
Dec 17 05:33:02 <egaudet> yep
Dec 17 05:33:07 <MijoroJordan> how do i do that?
Dec 17 05:33:15 <egaudet> that's part of the packaging metadata
Dec 17 05:33:25 <egaudet> put it in the notes on the submission form of what it depends on
Dec 17 05:33:29 <MijoroJordan> so just leave a note to the notemeister?
Dec 17 05:33:29 <MijoroJordan> col
Dec 17 05:33:31 <MijoroJordan> cool
Dec 17 05:33:34 <egaudet> dBsooner does testing and verifications before packaging
Dec 17 05:33:41 <MijoroJordan> great to know
Dec 17 05:34:28 <MijoroJordan> side question:
Dec 17 05:34:33 <MijoroJordan> in your personal knowledge
Dec 17 05:34:44 <MijoroJordan> is it possible to make a 'standalone' isntaller for a patch
Dec 17 05:34:48 <MijoroJordan> or a homebrew app
Dec 17 05:34:54 <MijoroJordan> err, would it be possible
Dec 17 05:35:15 <egaudet> it would require novacom drivers installed and go through USB
Dec 17 05:35:30 <egaudet> sort of like Quick Install's functionality but only for the one package
Dec 17 05:35:35 <egaudet> preware for instance has a standalone installer
Dec 17 05:35:51 <MijoroJordan> right
Dec 17 05:35:57 <MijoroJordan> but preware requires webosdoc
Dec 17 05:36:04 <egaudet> I don't know what the advantages of that would be for other packages vs. feeds
Dec 17 05:36:10 <egaudet> preware does not require webosdoc
Dec 17 05:36:36 <egaudet> to install anything first time on stock pre requires dev mode on and the novacom drivers installed on your machine
Dec 17 05:37:01 <MijoroJordan> hmm
Dec 17 05:37:03 <MijoroJordan> ok
Dec 17 05:37:28 <sslow> WOSQI requires webosdoc but not preware
Dec 17 05:37:31 <MijoroJordan> i think being able to distribute patches without all this other software necessary to do it would make it easier for laymen, and would get more people building on it
Dec 17 05:37:38 <MijoroJordan> interesting
Dec 17 05:37:46 <egaudet> from there you use the novacom to communicate over USB to the device.  User friendly GUI like Quick Install or Preware installer will use novacom underneath
Dec 17 05:38:07 <MijoroJordan> and novacom is protected by palms licenses
Dec 17 05:38:18 <MijoroJordan> so you can't bundle it into a standalone installer
Dec 17 05:38:20 <egaudet> I don't think you can much simpler than Preware for laymen
Dec 17 05:38:30 <sslow> agreed
Dec 17 05:38:50 <MijoroJordan> well right now the install sequence for a first timer is:
Dec 17 05:39:20 <sslow> there is a stand alone installer for PreWare
Dec 17 05:39:31 <MijoroJordan> enable dev mode, install the sdk (or some other way of getting novacom), install preware
Dec 17 05:39:33 <MijoroJordan> then get patches
Dec 17 05:39:40 <MijoroJordan> yea, but you need novacom (right?)
Dec 17 05:40:02 <egaudet> there is a standalone installer for preware I'm not sure of what it requires
Dec 17 05:40:23 <egaudet> I believe it was the java installer requires the doctor, but the .NET one doesn't.  I can't recall
Dec 17 05:40:35 <MijoroJordan> idk, itd be worth checking.
Dec 17 05:41:01 <MijoroJordan> i guess from my point of view as a developer would be that, if i wanted to sell code, I'd rather distribute a standalone installer
Dec 17 05:41:05 <egaudet> but yes for first timers they will always be required to dev mode on and get novacom to access the phone in any way aside from app cat
Dec 17 05:41:28 <egaudet> If you want to sell code, there's an app catalog :p
Dec 17 05:41:33 <MijoroJordan> so i can link to my product from my site. and thats all a customer needs
Dec 17 05:41:44 <MijoroJordan> yea, but you ca do really cool stuff with patches
Dec 17 05:41:50 <egaudet> patches to Palm proprietary files are a little sticky
Dec 17 05:41:51 <MijoroJordan> or maybe you make a scrobbler app
Dec 17 05:42:02 <MijoroJordan> that you put in the app cat
Dec 17 05:42:14 <egaudet> scrobbler?
Dec 17 05:42:18 <MijoroJordan> and then email your users a patch installer that links into the music app and pandora
Dec 17 05:42:20 <MijoroJordan> last.fm
Dec 17 05:42:31 <egaudet> I'm not sure Palm would allow that
Dec 17 05:42:43 <MijoroJordan> so the tracks you play in all the other apps are also scrobbled
Dec 17 05:42:48 <egaudet> A standalone installer for any package is still going to need dev mode on and novacom
Dec 17 05:42:50 <sslow> i dont think youll get patches into the official palm app catalog
Dec 17 05:43:06 <egaudet> novacom is the only way to access linux from a stock phone
Dec 17 05:43:09 <MijoroJordan> sslow, exactly
Dec 17 05:43:38 <MijoroJordan> so you hav ea normal app that can be in the app store
Dec 17 05:43:47 <sslow> yes
Dec 17 05:44:06 <MijoroJordan> and then give your users -- maybe you email it to them, or send them a ;link or whatever -- an installer for patches that add to your app
Dec 17 05:44:08 <egaudet> you are patching Palm proprietary code, not sure you can sell that or what the licensing or whatnot.  IANAL
Dec 17 05:44:26 <MijoroJordan> yea... i guess.
Dec 17 05:44:31 <egaudet> why would you have an installer that patches your app?
Dec 17 05:44:37 <egaudet> rather than updating your app in the catalog?
Dec 17 05:44:45 <MijoroJordan> ideally, patching other apps
Dec 17 05:45:06 <MijoroJordan> but yea, not a very easy to do thing
Dec 17 05:45:10 <MijoroJordan> at least not commercially
Dec 17 05:45:17 <MijoroJordan> just curious what you guys thought
Dec 17 05:45:25 <egaudet> I am strongly against anything touching the rootfs in a closed manner
Dec 17 05:45:27 <MijoroJordan> im gonna duck out, but thanks for the help with patching
Dec 17 05:45:32 <sslow> are you wanting to charge for patches
Dec 17 05:45:51 <MijoroJordan> if i could get away with it...
Dec 17 05:45:59 <MijoroJordan> i see more value in patching than i do in apps
Dec 17 05:46:02 <egaudet> MijoroJordan, note that if/when you submit the patch it is under MIT open source license
Dec 17 05:46:18 <sslow> i think youd have to do that on your website
Dec 17 05:46:28 <egaudet> MijoroJordan, maybe then you should try to get Palm to contract you ;)
Dec 17 05:46:44 <MijoroJordan> i used to work for them...
Dec 17 05:46:45 <sslow> not sure how youd stop redistribution though
Dec 17 05:47:15 <MijoroJordan> i actually suggested they encourage patching (using greasemonkey as an example)
Dec 17 05:47:18 <MijoroJordan> they didn't really go for it
Dec 17 05:47:25 <MijoroJordan> but i like seeing you guys starting it up anyway
Dec 17 05:47:40 <sslow> they dont seem to mind it
Dec 17 05:47:51 <MijoroJordan> no, they don't want to piss you guys off
Dec 17 05:47:52 <sslow> no push to stop it
Dec 17 05:47:56 <MijoroJordan> you're saving their company
Dec 17 05:48:03 <sslow> exactly
Dec 17 05:51:09 <egaudet> alright, off to bed
Dec 17 06:47:33 <JayCanuck> hi all
Dec 17 06:48:37 <rkguy> does anybody know if there is a particular warranty date after which one may safely assume the ti omap processor in the pre can handle freescale clocking at 600 mhz?
Dec 17 06:48:56 <egaudet> what's the syntax for novacom exec
Dec 17 06:49:20 <weboser> ello jaycanuck
Dec 17 06:49:43 <jhojho> rkguy: no, there is no particular date. try it on the command line if you are unsure.
Dec 17 06:50:31 <rkguy> ihoiho: thanks. I was curious. that's a good suggestion
Dec 17 06:56:55 <jhojho> no worries
Dec 17 07:21:58 <rwhitby> rkguy: assuming Palm is buying 500MHz rated parts from TI, there could be parts that *only* work at 500MHz sold by TI to Palm at any time based on the various characteristics of what comes off the fab line at any time.  Why do people assume that later chips will work?
Dec 17 07:23:17 <rkguy> I didn't realize they would purposely do so. hmm
Dec 17 07:29:35 <jhojho> rwhitby: I should shoot you some of the emails richard woodruff sent me re this.
Dec 17 07:31:17 <jhojho> but we will never know the real story unless palm chimes in. =)
Dec 17 07:37:08 <rkguy> how do you send files or private chat w someone using wirc anyway? I am used to using a gui. ... in any event I'm impressed you have a connection at TI
Dec 17 07:50:11 <jhojho> nothing to impressed about. I just happened to track down the guy responsible for omap in the kernel
Dec 17 08:11:51 <rwhitby> rkguy: I do not have a connection at TI.  Chips come off the fabs with widely varying performance due to silicon and processing characteristics, and are then characterised and put into speed bins.
Dec 17 08:12:29 <rwhitby> The 500MHz speed bin may be cheaper than the 600MHz speed bin (depending on the maturity and speed margin of the design at the specific fab)
Dec 17 08:12:53 <rwhitby> One would expect that Palm would buy the cheapest chips it can which still meet the spec of the Pre (which is 500MHz, not 600MHz)
Dec 17 10:20:59 <rwhitby> I just found a way to change the keyboard type without needing to use the webOS Doctor.  Only a Luna Restart is required.
Dec 17 14:51:01 <JangKro> I have a Palm running 1.2.1 I used the PrewareInstaller-0.9.5.jar to install Preware (using web doctor 1.2.1 jar file) ... but it freezes on either "Downloading Feeds" or "Checking Package Manager Version" (which should be instantaneous it states) ... my internet is working, I verified it using the browser -- any ideas?
Dec 17 14:51:36 <JangKro> Apologies if I accidentally posted this twice: I have a Palm running 1.2.1 I used the PrewareInstaller-0.9.5.jar to install Preware (using web doctor 1.2.1 jar file) ... but it freezes on either "Downloading Feeds" or "Checking Package Manager Version" (which should be instantaneous it states) ... my internet is working, I verified it using the browser -- any ideas?
Dec 17 15:18:59 <lupos> Is anyone here? Usually have issues with IRC in my office and it's awfully quiet seeming in here considering how many people there are. o_0
Dec 17 15:19:39 <en0x> none
Dec 17 15:26:47 <JangKro> it is a silence where little is said, but much is understood
Dec 17 15:30:41 <lupos> Word. Well the silence was off putting but it lead me to figure out on my own what I was going to ask about. So... thanks! ;)
Dec 17 15:30:50 <lupos> keep up the good work all
Dec 17 16:21:10 <Shiggity> I'm having a problem with the Add Date - MM/DD patch from Preware. I removed it manually before the last major update but it's still showing up in preware.
Dec 17 16:21:35 <Shiggity> How can I remove the patch entry from Preware?
Dec 17 16:33:50 <egaudet_work> define "manually"
Dec 17 16:37:27 <Shiggity> Well, I can't remove it through the package manager anymore because I overwrote the orig pre files with the doctor.
Dec 17 16:37:46 <Shiggity> Then I removed the directories for the patch. It's still listed in Preware. How can I remove that entry.
Dec 17 16:40:01 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: ping
Dec 17 16:40:18 <Shiggity> Yes, I'm a bad boy but I wanted the newest patch when palm released it and the MM/DD patch was having issues uninstalling.
Dec 17 16:40:21 <egaudet_work> Shiggity: command line
Dec 17 16:40:32 <egaudet_work> did you try EPR
Dec 17 16:40:55 <Shiggity> egaudet_work: I did try EPR and it didn't work. What's the file I need to edit through the command line?
Dec 17 16:41:12 <egaudet_work> you need to remove the package, since you already unapplied the patch
Dec 17 16:41:24 <Shiggity> Correct.
Dec 17 16:41:45 <egaudet_work> EPR should have done both, recover backup files and remove package file.  It will be more robust in the future with AUPT.  But now that you are in this state you can do the following:
Dec 17 16:41:53 <egaudet_work> ipkg -o /var remove org.webosinternals.patches.<patch_name>
Dec 17 16:42:12 <egaudet_work> ipkg -o /var list_installed | grep patches if you want to see the installed patches package names
Dec 17 16:42:40 <egaudet_work> make sure you only remove pacakge data like that for the patch that you know is back to stock, otherwise you'll have to manually recover files later
Dec 17 16:44:25 <Shiggity> Yeah, I already manually recovered the files so I should be good there. Are you on the WebOS Internals team?
Dec 17 16:45:40 <egaudet_work> yea
Dec 17 16:46:44 <Shiggity> You guys are awesome. Love the work you've done. Bought a javascript book so I can try to help out in a few weeks :)
Dec 17 16:47:47 <egaudet_work> awesome, the more devs the better :D
Dec 17 16:51:20 <Shiggity> Nice! That worked perfectly egaudet_work.
Dec 17 16:51:38 <Shiggity> I'm a bit curious, do you guys have a page on the wiki that lists what needs help? Bug tracker by chance?
Dec 17 16:55:42 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: pong
Dec 17 16:56:05 <dBsooner> sorry, was facinated by St. Marteen's approach videos on youtube
Dec 17 16:59:05 <egaudet_work> the 3k autoreplace patch requires full restart
Dec 17 16:59:17 <egaudet_work> Shiggity: git.webosinternals.org/trac
Dec 17 16:59:38 <egaudet_work> a few of the main projects with bug tracking
Dec 17 16:59:53 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: ^^ re: 3k patch
Dec 17 17:01:07 <dBsooner> huh??
Dec 17 17:01:13 <dBsooner> Just the first one for me?
Dec 17 17:01:21 <dBsooner> 3k autoreplace requires full?
Dec 17 17:04:04 <egaudet_work> yea
Dec 17 17:04:19 <egaudet_work> at least based on that thread
Dec 17 17:07:40 <dBsooner> so, I still suggest we just note those special ones in the desccripts
Dec 17 17:07:55 <dBsooner> I don't want to be forced to restart or luna restart
Dec 17 17:13:59 <Abyssul> wow the google latitude is pretty sweet and slick
Dec 17 17:14:18 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: there's a flag for restart device
Dec 17 17:14:39 <egaudet_work> that patch and any other patch that requires device restart should use it
Dec 17 17:14:51 <egaudet_work> I will be changing EPR to also use restart device just in case
Dec 17 17:26:00 <victor_> Hi?
Dec 17 17:26:25 <chuqui> hey
Dec 17 17:27:07 <v_> Anyone there?
Dec 17 17:27:12 <v_> :)
Dec 17 17:27:47 <Shiggity> What's going on?
Dec 17 17:27:56 <v_> Hey, I have a question about openVPN for the pre
Dec 17 17:28:04 <v_> Does it work over 3g? The wiki wasn't clear on that.
Dec 17 17:28:29 <v_> re: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenVPN_for_Palm_Pre
Dec 17 17:37:51 <v_> Thanks ecrist for solving the problem; Shiggity, I found out it does work over 3g...
Dec 17 17:38:16 <ecrist> ping oc80z: someone just spoke with us in ##openvpn about the openvpn client.  looks like your ipkg is out of date - 2.1.1 is full release now, just an fyi
Dec 17 17:38:36 <Shiggity> v_, was it hard to set up and does it work with CISCO VPNs?
Dec 17 17:38:51 <ecrist> Shiggity: opevpn != cisco vpn
Dec 17 17:38:59 <ecrist> it is it's own protocol
Dec 17 17:39:07 <Shiggity> Ahhh, drat.
Dec 17 18:00:07 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: when does this flag fire the reboots?
Dec 17 18:03:01 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: just like restart luna flags
Dec 17 18:03:08 <egaudet_work> I assume
Dec 17 18:03:30 <egaudet_work> popup will say you need to restart device, like the restart luna or restart java popup
Dec 17 18:03:59 <dBsooner> I would like to see an option to "postpone"
Dec 17 18:05:48 <egaudet_work> dBsooner: yea that's been on the roadmap
Dec 17 18:08:52 <dBsooner> because of the "update all"
Dec 17 18:09:02 <dBsooner> what if a package is set with a flag to reboot in middle of "update all"?
Dec 17 18:10:40 <egaudet_work> don't know, currently it would probably prompt to reboot
Dec 17 18:13:16 <dBsooner> not good
Dec 17 18:13:17 <dBsooner> ;)
Dec 17 18:13:54 <dBsooner> you know, after I installed all my patches back on tue night, I have noticed a drastic decrease in battery
Dec 17 18:14:01 <dBsooner> of course it might be apps too
Dec 17 18:14:11 <dBsooner> but none of my apps run
Dec 17 18:16:55 <dBsooner> meaning none of my apps stay running in the background
Dec 17 18:23:38 <egaudet_work> are you in a good coverage area
Dec 17 18:36:59 <mikepre_> got a ? regarding the iPhone patch.....is this the only file that gets touched? /usr/lib/libWebKitLuna.so , and if so, to remove the patch, can I just delete the patched one, and then copy back the original one?
Dec 17 19:01:18 <dBsooner> mikepre_: we know nothing about that patch
Dec 17 19:01:30 <dBsooner> clipcarl made it... it's only used in WOSQI
Dec 17 19:01:55 <dBsooner> its a binary patch that we chose not to incorporate into APT/AUPT at this time.
Dec 17 19:14:28 <egaudet_work> mikepre_: you should be able to just remove it the same way you installed it
Dec 17 19:27:27 <beezlewaxin> I have a shell script, and I'd like to do be able to retrieve the phone's SID (CDMA System ID, example: 4139) into a variable for further processing
Dec 17 19:27:30 <beezlewaxin> I can view it using: luna-send -n 1 "palm://com.palm.telephony/sidQuery" "{}"
Dec 17 19:28:30 <beezlewaxin> but I cannot figure out how to direct the output of a luna-send command to stdout or a file, or just something that I can parse.  I'd even be ok with pull it out of /var/log/messages or anywhere I can find it.
Dec 17 19:29:38 <beezlewaxin> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to parse the output of a luna-send command from a shell script? thanks...
Dec 17 19:33:44 <dBsooner> awk?
Dec 17 19:34:04 <dBsooner> awk should do what you want
Dec 17 19:34:20 <Mousey> root@palm-webos-device:/media/internal#  luna-send -n 1 "palm://com.palm.telephony/sidQuery" "{}" 2> foo.txt
Dec 17 19:34:20 <Mousey> root@palm-webos-device:/media/internal# cat foo.txt
Dec 17 19:34:20 <Mousey> ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returnValue":true,"errorCode":0,"extended":{"value":"4186"}}
Dec 17 19:34:37 <Mousey> beezlewaxin: looks like it goes to stderr
Dec 17 19:34:46 <Mousey> so 2> filename.txt will properly redirect it
Dec 17 19:34:50 <dBsooner> right.. then awk that output to just get 4186
Dec 17 19:34:50 <Mousey> ..to a file anyway
Dec 17 19:34:51 <beezlewaxin> wow!
Dec 17 19:35:29 <Mousey> why luna-send outputs to stderr is beyond me
Dec 17 19:36:09 <beezlewaxin> so easy, thanks a million!  I coulda sworn I tried that, but I guess I didn't.
Dec 17 19:36:24 * Mousey is a helper! ^_^
Dec 17 19:36:50 <beezlewaxin> Thanks so much!  I'm using  cat foo.txt  | cut -d\" -f10
Dec 17 19:36:53 <beezlewaxin> works perfect
Dec 17 19:37:06 <Mousey> ah. well abandon cut for awk someday
Dec 17 19:37:12 <dBsooner> why even put it to file?
Dec 17 19:37:21 <Mousey> python would be nice, since the output looks like a mapping structure anyway
Dec 17 19:37:44 * Mousey knows jack about python tho
Dec 17 19:37:49 <gkatsev> python++
Dec 17 19:37:58 <gkatsev> infobot: python++
Dec 17 19:38:07 <dBsooner> Pascal FTW!
Dec 17 19:38:08 <Mousey> just doing thing++ karma's it up
Dec 17 19:38:14 <Mousey> Pascal--
Dec 17 19:38:15 <gkatsev> cobol?
Dec 17 19:38:16 <Mousey> karma Pascal
Dec 17 19:38:20 <Mousey> ~karma Pascal
Dec 17 19:38:21 <infobot> pascal has neutral karma
Dec 17 19:38:24 <Mousey> Pascal--
Dec 17 19:38:25 <Mousey> ~karma Pascal
Dec 17 19:38:31 <gkatsev> Mousey: ~pascal--
Dec 17 19:38:33 <beezlewaxin> I don't know awk, am pretty good with sed, grep, regex though...  cut is real beginner but sometimes is simplest for data of known format for me...
Dec 17 19:38:36 <gkatsev> ~karma pascal
Dec 17 19:38:37 <infobot> pascal has neutral karma
Dec 17 19:38:40 <gkatsev> ~pascal00
Dec 17 19:38:40 <Mousey> bah
Dec 17 19:38:42 <gkatsev> ~pascal--
Dec 17 19:38:46 <gkatsev> ~karma pascal
Dec 17 19:38:47 <Mousey> ~karma Pascal
Dec 17 19:38:48 <infobot> pascal has karma of -1
Dec 17 19:38:52 <Mousey> bah
Dec 17 19:39:00 <gkatsev> you have to tell infobot about it
Dec 17 19:39:03 <Mousey> clearly
Dec 17 19:39:05 <gkatsev> ~karma python
Dec 17 19:39:05 <infobot> python has karma of 13
Dec 17 19:39:08 <Mousey> infobot < rbot
Dec 17 19:39:12 <Mousey> ~python++
Dec 17 19:39:14 <gkatsev> rbot?
Dec 17 19:39:18 <Mousey> mmhmm
Dec 17 19:39:25 <gkatsev> what is rbot?
Dec 17 19:39:31 <Mousey> http://ruby-rbot.org/
Dec 17 19:39:39 <Mousey> ruby rip off of infobot
Dec 17 19:39:41 <gkatsev> rubybot... psh
Dec 17 19:39:52 <gkatsev> lol, jk
Dec 17 19:39:59 <Mousey> infobot has a couple things it does better, but rbot plays uno
Dec 17 19:40:01 <gkatsev> havent really used ruby
Dec 17 19:40:02 <Mousey> UNO!!
Dec 17 19:40:06 <Mousey> me either
Dec 17 19:40:11 <gkatsev> supybot with infobot plugin++
Dec 17 19:40:18 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 17 19:40:22 <gkatsev> supybot is python
Dec 17 19:40:36 <linuxjacques> ugh. bot abuse.
Dec 17 19:40:39 <Mousey> i should learn python better
Dec 17 19:40:43 <Mousey> ~abuse lingfish
Dec 17 19:40:44 * infobot smacks lingfish across the face. "Take that, sucker!"
Dec 17 19:40:44 <Mousey> oops
Dec 17 19:40:48 <Mousey> ~abuse linuxjacques
Dec 17 19:40:50 * infobot smacks linuxjacques across the face. "Take that, sucker!"
Dec 17 19:40:52 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 17 19:41:00 <Mousey> sorry lingfish
Dec 17 19:41:03 <gkatsev> ~lart linuxjacques
Dec 17 19:41:03 * infobot calls linuxjacques on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home
Dec 17 19:41:12 <Mousey> ~lart linuxjacques
Dec 17 19:41:13 <linuxjacques> strangely apropos
Dec 17 19:41:25 <beezlewaxin> I have worked out a way to do mms on my carrier, cricket, however it requires patching a .class file inside a jar file.
Dec 17 19:41:31 <gkatsev> ~lart linuxjacques
Dec 17 19:41:31 * infobot frags linuxjacques with his BFG9000
Dec 17 19:44:33 <beezlewaxin> My patched file is overridden with each webos update, so I have an upstart event that can go get the new file from my server automatically.  I'd like my server to know from which sid requests are originating from.
Dec 17 19:46:04 <gkatsev> beezlewaxin: each webos file could make your patch obsolete requiring a rewrite
Dec 17 19:53:24 <beezlewaxin> Maybe in more ways than one...  at the very least, I assume my patched file will be discarded after a webos update.
Dec 17 19:53:48 <dBsooner> egaudet_work: Yeah.. I have great signal.. I think it's a memory leak somewhere
Dec 17 19:54:04 <dBsooner> Because I now have "too many cards open".. again.. and nothing is open
Dec 17 19:54:22 <gkatsev> beezlewaxin: not necessarily
Dec 17 19:54:38 <loot-> i just orange+sym+r when that happens
Dec 17 19:54:45 <loot-> doesnt happen often
Dec 17 19:54:50 <beezlewaxin> When my script detects my patched file is gone, I will make a request to my server: wget or curl http://feeds.myserver.com/pre/cricket/mms/latest?sid=1234&authtoken=SHA1value&webosver=x.x.x&prlid=12345&proxyip=x.x.x.x&mdnhash=SHA1ofMDN -O /tmp/mms-patch.sh
Dec 17 19:54:51 * dsevil pops in
Dec 17 19:54:52 <egaudet_work> you can use 2>&1 to redirect the stderr to stdout
Dec 17 19:54:56 <loot-> usually after my phones been on for like 90+ days straight
Dec 17 19:54:58 <egaudet_work> rather than to file and then cat back to stdout
Dec 17 19:55:17 <dsevil> dbsooner: did you get my "i hate brighthouse labs" patch submission monday night?
Dec 17 19:55:33 <dBsooner> dsevil: I really don't know if we should put that out. ;)
Dec 17 19:55:35 <gkatsev> dsevil: what does it do? hide all BL apps from the app catalog?
Dec 17 19:55:51 <linuxjacques> heh
Dec 17 19:55:54 <dsevil> gkatsev: it turns them into the brown turds that they are
Dec 17 19:56:04 <gkatsev> dBsooner: you should just put a disclaimer before hand
Dec 17 19:56:13 <dsevil> dBsooner: why?
Dec 17 19:56:41 <dBsooner> because "brighthouse labs sucks" is an opinion.
Dec 17 19:57:44 <dBsooner> Umm.. how do I know what part of LunaSysMgr is taking up so much damn memory?
Dec 17 19:57:54 <dBsooner> 3545 root 19 -1 275m 109m 16m S 0.7 45.9 34:12.78 LunaSysMgr
Dec 17 19:57:59 <gkatsev> dBsooner: the whole of it...
Dec 17 19:58:04 <dBsooner> 275mb's?
Dec 17 19:58:05 <linuxjacques> the java part
Dec 17 19:58:14 <linuxjacques> 109 is more real
Dec 17 19:58:25 <gkatsev> just restart luna
Dec 17 19:58:33 <dBsooner> gkatsev: i know how to fix it
Dec 17 19:58:34 <dsevil> dBsooner: why does it being an opinion have anything to do with anything:?
Dec 17 19:58:41 <dBsooner> I want to know what's leaking to cause it to get hammered
Dec 17 19:59:01 <Shiggity> dsevil: I want that patch.
Dec 17 19:59:18 <dBsooner> dsevil: I will have to discuss it with Eric and Rod. I don't know what to do.
Dec 17 19:59:23 <dsevil> Shiggity: I posted a thread on the precental forums under webos patches... you can use webosqi in the mean time.
Dec 17 19:59:25 <beezlewaxin> So wasn't the 1.3.5 update supposed to happen yesterday on the 16th?
Dec 17 19:59:33 <dsevil> dBsooner: you have "Hide NFL App"
Dec 17 19:59:44 <dsevil> and "Hide NASCAR App"
Dec 17 19:59:45 <dsevil> etc.
Dec 17 19:59:54 <dBsooner> Right, but those are pre-installed apps.
Dec 17 19:59:58 <gkatsev> perhaps if you rename the patch to "hide BL apps from catalog"
Dec 17 20:00:03 <dsevil> I suppose I wouldn't mind calling it "<something> Brighthouse Labs"
Dec 17 20:00:14 <dsevil> gkatsev: Well it doesn't *hide* them, per se... ;)
Dec 17 20:00:23 <dBsooner> what does it do?
Dec 17 20:00:34 <dsevil> It browns them out ;)
Dec 17 20:00:40 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 17 20:00:42 <dBsooner> Then I don't think I will do that.
Dec 17 20:00:46 <dBsooner> hiding them is one thing
Dec 17 20:00:51 <dBsooner> but altering them is another.
Dec 17 20:01:21 <dBsooner> I don't know.. again, that's up to egaudet_work and rwhitby to comment on.
Dec 17 20:01:44 <dsevil> If you're not going to accept it as is then I wouldn't mind some alternative suggestions.
Dec 17 20:01:51 <dsevil> Actually hiding them is nontrivial... that's what I tried to do at first.
Dec 17 20:02:05 <dBsooner> I know.. Again, I have to think about it.
Dec 17 20:02:11 <dsevil> ok.
Dec 17 20:02:14 <dBsooner> And we don't just "reject" without suggesting.
Dec 17 20:02:19 <dBsooner> at least we haven't yet.
Dec 17 20:03:11 <gkatsev> there is always a first time for everything ;P
Dec 17 20:03:30 <egaudet_work> aren't they just list items?
Dec 17 20:03:41 <dsevil> They *are* just list items.
Dec 17 20:04:03 <dsevil> I tried display: none, but that makes the display go haywire when you scroll down and start going past the hidden apps.
Dec 17 20:04:14 <egaudet_work> so can you get the row element and then .hide() it
Dec 17 20:04:21 <dsevil> palm-list really isn't designed with display:none on certain of the items in mind.
Dec 17 20:05:19 <dsevil> does hide() do anything other than set display:none?
Dec 17 20:06:20 <dsevil> http://tinyurl.com/blighthouse goes to my precentral thread now, by the way.  :)
Dec 17 20:06:30 <dsevil> (the one about the brighthouse brown-lister)
Dec 17 20:07:02 <linuxjacques> maybe have the option to not display any app publisher ? they it wouldn't be picking on bh
Dec 17 20:07:47 <gkatsev> dsevil: lol. funny but innapropriate
Dec 17 20:08:57 <egaudet_work> yea a more generic "hide publisher: " would be more friendly
Dec 17 20:09:11 <egaudet_work> of course that doesn't help solve the hiding issue
Dec 17 20:09:24 <linuxjacques> true :-\
Dec 17 20:09:42 <gkatsev> dsevil: you can release tens of patches. once patch for each publisher in the app catalog, lol
Dec 17 20:09:47 <egaudet_work> but once you figure out how to hide or filter them
Dec 17 20:10:33 <dsevil> the easiest solution itself would be if the app catalog had a NOT operator... but !brighthouse, ~brighthouse, and -brighthouse don't work.
Dec 17 20:11:07 <ird> or you could be like them and release a single patch for each app they create.
Dec 17 20:11:07 <ird> :p
Dec 17 20:11:09 <gkatsev> yeah, as chuq said and we discussed yesterday on #webos, the catalog needs better search.
Dec 17 20:11:11 <ird> that'll show em.
Dec 17 20:11:19 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 17 20:11:35 <dsevil> heh
Dec 17 20:11:40 <ird> I wish I had came up with their idea first.
Dec 17 20:11:41 <gkatsev> yeah, dsevil, release 815 patches. each patch hides an app in the catalog.
Dec 17 20:11:42 <ird> I'd be rich.
Dec 17 20:12:18 <gkatsev> dsevil: when you do display:none, does it throw any errors or what not? or just messes up the gui?
Dec 17 20:12:27 <dsevil> gkatsev: just messes up the gui.
Dec 17 20:13:03 <dsevil> ird: i'm soooo sure that the fine folks at brighthouse labs are just swimming in swimming pools made of money and driving around in maseratis with fenders made of money
Dec 17 20:13:31 <gkatsev> have you tried visibility:hidden ?
Dec 17 20:13:35 <dsevil> yes
Dec 17 20:13:37 <ird> Considering all the iphone apps they've made, possibly.
Dec 17 20:14:16 <ird> Try position: fixed; right: 600px;
Dec 17 20:14:16 <ird> :p
Dec 17 20:14:26 <gkatsev> hah
Dec 17 20:14:39 <dsevil> hehehe
Dec 17 20:14:41 <linuxjacques> have they made any _good_ apps?
Dec 17 20:15:01 <gkatsev> replace their node with a blanknode height of 0px?
Dec 17 20:15:04 <ird> If they're smart, they'll release an app that launches all their other apps.
Dec 17 20:15:08 <dsevil> if so, who cares, they're still spamming douchebags.
Dec 17 20:16:05 <ird> You can't just filter the list before it gets to the point of being displayed?
Dec 17 20:16:12 <en0x> like they couldnt make one app
Dec 17 20:16:15 <en0x> for soccer
Dec 17 20:16:22 <dsevil> en0x: precisely.
Dec 17 20:16:31 <en0x> i think they want to make more money
Dec 17 20:16:48 <ird> en0x: no, they're just poor programmers.
Dec 17 20:16:51 <ird> :p
Dec 17 20:17:11 <ird> Like the people who still create webpages with tables and frames.
Dec 17 20:17:50 <en0x> hehe
Dec 17 20:17:50 <dsevil> the *programmers* aren't the cream of the crop, but the people behind brighthouse labs are most certainly douchebags.  surely they *know* they can create one ap.
Dec 17 20:17:57 <en0x> tables are evil
Dec 17 20:18:06 <dsevil> frames can die in a fire
Dec 17 20:18:40 <dsevil> surely they *also* know that most people aren't going to buy more than one or two team apps for each sport
Dec 17 20:18:53 <en0x> i havent got any apps from them
Dec 17 20:18:56 <ird> I made an example once of the differences between using <div>/css rather than tables and inline styles, or all those old elements for font, etc.
Dec 17 20:19:16 <dsevil> create one app, sell it for $4.99, instead of $0.99, and they can have a few teams if they want.
Dec 17 20:19:17 <ird> But nobody I knew that was into web design at the time gave a shit.
Dec 17 20:19:18 <en0x> i love the paratrooper game :D
Dec 17 20:19:28 <dsevil> point is, they're spamming intentionally, i'm pretty sure.
Dec 17 20:19:41 <en0x> just wait till the beta is over
Dec 17 20:19:41 <en0x> ;)
Dec 17 20:19:53 <dsevil> hopefully they won't be grandfathered in
Dec 17 20:20:11 <en0x> well so webos doctoring my pre fixed the auto backup issue
Dec 17 20:20:30 <linuxjacques> stupid web proxy here at work died
Dec 17 20:20:37 <en0x> like i care
Dec 17 20:20:47 <linuxjacques> infobot: what did I miss?
Dec 17 20:20:47 <gkatsev> like anyone cares
Dec 17 20:20:58 <gkatsev> ~sex
Dec 17 20:20:59 <infobot> [~sex] updatedb; locate; talk; date; cd; strip; look; touch; finger; unzip; uptime; gawk; head; emerge --oneshot condom; mount; fsck; gasp; more; yes; yes; yes; more; umount; emerge -C condom; make clean; sleep
Dec 17 20:21:33 <linuxjacques> I see that's the gentoo version
Dec 17 20:21:57 <en0x> yap
Dec 17 20:22:13 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 17 20:22:28 <gkatsev> linuxjacques: you got a problem with that?
Dec 17 20:23:49 <JayCanuck> hi all
Dec 17 20:24:26 <linuxjacques> gkatsev: nope. I have used gentoo on my personal machines since 2003.
Dec 17 20:25:17 <gkatsev> JayCanuck: hi, have a pre now?
Dec 17 20:25:22 <en0x> compiling packages is animal
Dec 17 20:25:30 <JayCanuck> yep :)
Dec 17 20:25:36 <gkatsev> en0x: that is not a complete sentence
Dec 17 20:25:41 <linuxjacques> heck, I built gentoo from a stage1 tarball on a compaq ipaq handheld in 2003. it took three days.
Dec 17 20:25:45 <gkatsev> JayCanuck: how do you like the lag? :D
Dec 17 20:25:49 <en0x> gkatsev, because my keyboard broken
Dec 17 20:25:49 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 17 20:25:49 <en0x> ;p
Dec 17 20:25:55 <gkatsev> linuxjacques: lol, ok.
Dec 17 20:26:31 <JayCanuck> I've turned off the phone radio completely (as it's a sprint on that wouldn't work anyway) and I getting really decent battery life, lol
Dec 17 20:26:46 <en0x> if i will turn of data
Dec 17 20:26:52 <en0x> i will get decent battery life too
Dec 17 20:26:55 <en0x> s/of/off/
Dec 17 20:27:02 <gkatsev> JayCanuck: basically using it as an internet tablet thingy?
Dec 17 20:27:10 <gkatsev>  /dev testing device?
Dec 17 20:27:18 <JayCanuck> lol, yep, patched it to look nice too ;)
Dec 17 20:27:41 <JayCanuck> it was donated, can't complain.
Dec 17 20:27:52 <dsevil> with duct tape?
Dec 17 20:27:55 <JayCanuck> it helps things sooooo much in development
Dec 17 20:27:58 <JayCanuck> lol
Dec 17 20:28:09 <gkatsev> yeah, i would assume so
Dec 17 20:28:52 <dsevil> I'm still doing that thing where you use a folded-up piece of paper as a battery shim.
Dec 17 20:29:28 <gkatsev> i have a refurb, so, dont need that
Dec 17 20:29:48 <dsevil> Yeah, my Pre is a day zero.
Dec 17 20:30:06 <gkatsev> yeah, got it replaced cuz jack died
Dec 17 20:30:32 <JayCanuck> heh, the one I got has many layers of tape on the top part of the battery :p
Dec 17 20:30:50 <en0x> dsevil, my is day zero too
Dec 17 20:33:40 <dsevil> hmm
Dec 17 20:33:58 <dsevil> can two apps use the same database via depot or html5?
Dec 17 20:34:44 <dsevil> if i'm gonna make a generic type app, i might as well make a semi-proper app in conjunction with the app catalog patch to allow the user to add/remove to his own blacklist.
Dec 17 20:42:14 <en0x> http://www.vidmax.com/video/60502/This_woman_has_the_biggest__roundest_butt_you_will_ever_see_/ omg
Dec 17 20:42:39 <gkatsev> that does not sound SFW at all
Dec 17 20:43:14 <linuxjacques> indeed. :-\
Dec 17 20:43:17 <en0x> there is a girl in bikini
Dec 17 20:45:13 <rwhitby> Batten down the hatches, a Preware article apparently was just posted on PreCentral front page ...
Dec 17 20:45:25 * oil_ cringes
Dec 17 20:45:36 <gkatsev> not just. have been there for several hours, lol
Dec 17 20:47:46 <bpadalin1|work> batten down the hatches, palm is about to report earnings in less than 15 minutes
Dec 17 20:48:39 * mikewx sells some stock
Dec 17 20:49:25 <bpadalin1|work> oh noes!
Dec 17 20:50:17 <linuxjacques> it's a perfect storm!  :-D
Dec 17 20:51:37 <rwhitby> oil_: did you notice the article shows 0.9.13 screenshot :-)
Dec 17 20:52:24 <linuxjacques> gitorious.org needs a load meter. and not to be so slow.
Dec 17 20:52:39 <oil_> yeah, and i got a pm from milo
Dec 17 20:53:10 <oil_> and palm put up the holiday specials thing, which blocked is in
Dec 17 20:53:11 <oil_> http://blog.palm.com/palm/2009/12/hohoholiday-specials-in-the-palm-beta-app-catalog.html
Dec 17 20:54:38 <gkatsev> well, they said its not only those.
Dec 17 20:56:58 <en0x> i got blocked from preware
Dec 17 20:56:58 <en0x> :D
Dec 17 20:57:23 <oil_> yeah, but i actually get a check for the other one
Dec 17 21:03:01 * dBsooner goes to buy blocked for .50
Dec 17 21:03:31 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: we use git.webos-internals.org for most things now, but patches needed to stay there cause they were references in millions of places
Dec 17 21:04:02 <rwhitby> oil_: I finally worked out how to buy stuff on my GSM Pre, so I will be purchasing Blocked today :-)
Dec 17 21:04:26 * linuxjacques waits for bitbake/oe to blow up.
Dec 17 21:04:50 <dBsooner> no, i don';t want blocked
Dec 17 21:04:53 <dBsooner> I want that other one..
Dec 17 21:04:59 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: shall I create a git repo for the OE setup stuff?
Dec 17 21:05:16 <linuxjacques> no psyco on 64-bit. I'm glad I have 4GiB RAM
Dec 17 21:05:32 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: I'm only just beginning :-)
Dec 17 21:05:43 <linuxjacques> but I guess a repo couldn't hurt
Dec 17 21:06:09 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: I upgraded the macbook to 8GB, just for OE :-)
Dec 17 21:06:18 <linuxjacques> it might take many hours just to get it building on F12 (what's on the laptop I have with me)
Dec 17 21:06:45 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: argh will 4GiB not be enough do you think?
Dec 17 21:07:05 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: should be, but I needed to run it in a VM
Dec 17 21:07:18 <rwhitby> (alongside other VMs)
Dec 17 21:07:31 <linuxjacques> I remember in 2005, before the memory use optimization, I had to get 2GiB in my thinkpad *just* for OE.
Dec 17 21:07:41 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: ah ok
Dec 17 21:08:25 <rwhitby> egaudet_work: the 1.2.1 to 1.3.1 transition worked fine, except for one patch that didn't remove (Hide Sprint TV).
Dec 17 21:08:35 <rwhitby> but the process is proven as far as I can see
Dec 17 21:09:50 * linuxjacques tries to remember how to get OE to just fetch all the source code packages.
Dec 17 21:10:28 <gkatsev> OE?
Dec 17 21:10:33 <gkatsev> oh, right
Dec 17 21:10:34 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 17 21:10:53 <gkatsev> i asked that like yesterday or something
Dec 17 21:11:26 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: prefetch
Dec 17 21:11:35 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: -c fetch I think
Dec 17 21:15:01 <linuxjacques> I'll try those when it next blows up
Dec 17 21:15:13 <linuxjacques> (with OE it's always just a matter of time)
Dec 17 21:15:40 <rwhitby> Mousey: ping
Dec 17 21:15:56 <Mousey> rwhitby: pong
Dec 17 21:17:48 * linuxjacques wonders if OE has gotten any better in the last couple of years about using multiple cores for parallel builds.
Dec 17 21:18:10 * Mousey wonders if eventually Pres/Pixi's could run OpenMoko
Dec 17 21:18:11 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 17 21:21:26 <dBsooner> Is it Pres or Pre's?
Dec 17 21:21:37 <dBsooner> or Prees?
Dec 17 21:21:41 <gkatsev> plurarl?
Dec 17 21:21:47 <dBsooner> si
Dec 17 21:21:55 <gkatsev> pres and pre's are acceptable
Dec 17 21:22:19 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: yeah, it has
Dec 17 21:23:32 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: excellent, how do I configure parallel builds? (it's not doing it by default AFAICT)
Dec 17 21:24:12 * linuxjacques is afraid to ask on #oe.
Dec 17 21:25:39 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2008/04/07/speeding-up-bitbake-builds/
Dec 17 21:25:47 <egaudet_work> rwhitby: do you know why that one patch didn't remove?
Dec 17 21:25:57 <dBsooner> which one?
Dec 17 21:26:06 <dBsooner> I am having issues getting one to remove too........
Dec 17 21:26:07 <egaudet_work> a patch package not removing is one thing I'm trying to never see
Dec 17 21:26:29 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: thanks!
Dec 17 21:26:33 <rwhitby> egaudet_work: yeah, dunno.
Dec 17 21:26:44 <dBsooner> rwhitby, egaudet_work: which one?
Dec 17 21:26:46 <egaudet_work> can I have your log file
Dec 17 21:27:07 <rwhitby> egaudet_work: I'm going to try and reproduce it first
Dec 17 21:27:21 <linuxjacques> ah heh I was reading that guy's blog last night
Dec 17 21:33:38 <dsevil> dBsooner: http://webonastick.com/webos/patches/hide-brighthouse-labs-1.3.1.patch.txt <-- "clean" version of my controversial patch + title of "Hide Brighthouse Labs" = satisfactory for now?
Dec 17 21:34:45 <dBsooner> rwhitby: Your take on adding the "Hide Brighthouse Labs" patch to the feed?
Dec 17 21:35:21 <rwhitby> dsevil: I'd prefer something which has a preference where you type in the name of the vendor(s) you wish to exclude, otherwise we are doing the exact thing that we're complaining about
Dec 17 21:35:39 <dsevil> right... this is quick-and-dirty for now
Dec 17 21:36:00 <rwhitby> maybe that's what they said too ;-)
Dec 17 21:36:07 <linuxjacques> lol
Dec 17 21:36:31 <bayshores1> can anyone help me with upgrading preware i have read numerous posts and no where i look can i find the newest version
Dec 17 21:36:54 <rwhitby> seriously, let's get oil_ involved and add a menu to the app catalog which lets you exclude a regexp of vendors
Dec 17 21:37:07 <rwhitby> bayshores1: http://install.preware.org
Dec 17 21:38:01 <dBsooner> I mean, if we include one that simply "excludes BHL" then it could be viewed as we are taking the stance against them. I think a more open "hide <insert name here>" option is better. I do agree with rod on that.
Dec 17 21:38:05 <egaudet_work> upgrade preware with preware
Dec 17 21:38:06 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: I meant to ask you about that (http://install.preware.org) the idea is to go there from the pre? because when I go from a PC I get redirected to a forum thread.
Dec 17 21:38:45 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: yeah, the forum thread is the best instructions at the moment
Dec 17 21:39:40 <linuxjacques> I need to do the metadoctor thing and increase my /var size, but I was hoping 1.3.5 would be out by now.
Dec 17 21:40:13 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: the /var increase should stay around with any OTA update
Dec 17 21:40:33 <rwhitby> (as long as they don't do a live LVM resize as part of the update)
Dec 17 21:40:46 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: OK so I will still want the /var increase even with 1.3.5 and its change in app space handling?
Dec 17 21:40:46 <bayshores1> i've tried to upgrade with preware and with quickm install and continue to get same version and preware doesn't show any upgrade available
Dec 17 21:41:22 <linuxjacques> don't answer if you are NDA constrained (naturally)
Dec 17 21:41:22 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: well, I can't say anything about any future versions of webOS, but I can say that optware will still be in /var, so you in particular will want that 2GB.
Dec 17 21:41:44 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: OK good.
Dec 17 21:41:44 <rwhitby> bayshores1: what version do you have?
Dec 17 21:41:47 <dsevil> dBsooner: I don't buy that.  I'm pretty sure it's well understood that you're simply publishing a bunch of patches from a bunch of different authors, each of whom has their own opinions.
Dec 17 21:41:55 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: email is also in /var
Dec 17 21:42:06 <bayshores1> preware is 9.12 i believe
Dec 17 21:42:17 <rwhitby> bayshores1: that is the latest
Dec 17 21:42:40 <bayshores1> ok thanks
Dec 17 21:43:08 <dBsooner> dsevil: ok.. then if rwhitby ok's it, then I'll put it in.
Dec 17 21:43:12 <linuxjacques> FWIW, I agree with the freedom of expression argument, but if the (almost) same objective can be achieved without seeming to attack someone, I would prefer that.
Dec 17 21:43:19 <rwhitby> dsevil: I'm not against publishing an individual one - I'm just saying it leaves the author open to suggestions of doing exactly what is being complained about ...
Dec 17 21:43:46 <rwhitby> dsevil: so if one wants to take the high ground, one would make it configurable
Dec 17 21:44:06 <linuxjacques> (which would also make it much more useful)
Dec 17 21:44:09 <dsevil> rwhitby: right.
Dec 17 21:44:17 <rwhitby> dsevil: and I'm sure there would be plenty of help available in here and #webos to do so
Dec 17 21:44:58 * linuxjacques can't believe his bitbake is still going.
Dec 17 21:52:51 <rwhitby> dBsooner, dsevil: how about we get the current patch in the gitorious.org repo, so people can apply it if they like using WOSQI, and collaborate on the generic version for Preware ?
Dec 17 21:54:17 <dBsooner> im good with whatever. I just didn't like the idea of singling out a given company via a patch in the public ipkg feed
Dec 17 21:54:30 <dBsooner> But, that's my opinion.
Dec 17 21:54:47 <ird> dBsooner: Do you use an adblocker?
Dec 17 21:54:56 <dBsooner> nope
Dec 17 21:55:03 <ird> Well, there goes my point.
Dec 17 21:55:09 <dBsooner> but that would hardly the same thing
Dec 17 21:55:25 <ird> Ad blocking software blocks spam.
Dec 17 21:55:35 <dBsooner> one is forcive advertising, the other is a "somewhat legitamite program"
Dec 17 21:55:54 <rwhitby> ird: my point is that you don't release an ad blocker with one hard-coded URL in it
Dec 17 21:56:03 <ird> Ah
Dec 17 21:56:07 <dBsooner> yeah, and that too
Dec 17 21:56:09 <ird> I see what you're getting at.
Dec 17 21:56:23 <dBsooner> let users decide what "blanket" to use
Dec 17 21:56:31 <dBsooner> not "block XX site"
Dec 17 21:56:36 <rwhitby> just like you shouldn't release a sports fan app with just one team in it ... get my point?
Dec 17 21:58:23 <ird> Has palm officially or unofficially said anything about it?
Dec 17 21:58:27 <ird> The lame apps I mean.
Dec 17 21:59:21 <rwhitby> ird: yes, there's a post by chuq in the developer forum
Dec 17 22:00:09 <ird> developer.palm.com?
Dec 17 22:00:19 <JayCanuck_> yea
Dec 17 22:00:36 * ird looks
Dec 17 22:00:45 <dBsooner> acutally, several posts
Dec 17 22:01:04 <dBsooner> And I see both sides of the argument.
Dec 17 22:02:57 <dBsooner> Just like you don't go to Best Buy (wal-mart, whatever) and ask them to "get rid of those belkin products because they are lame and making it hard to find my 'perfect all-product charger'" right?
Dec 17 22:03:07 <ird> crap
Dec 17 22:03:12 <ird> what's the name of the company?
Dec 17 22:03:26 <dBsooner> Brighthouse Labs
Dec 17 22:03:31 <ird> dBsooner: thanks
Dec 17 22:03:33 <dBsooner> but I don't know if its mentioned
Dec 17 22:03:48 <dBsooner> His posts were in a thread with a poll
Dec 17 22:10:26 <dsevil> as much as i want to see brighthouse labs die in a fire, i see chuq's points and i'm glad people like him are at palm.
Dec 17 22:10:31 <dsevil> instead of people like me :)
Dec 17 22:10:59 <linuxjacques> :-)
Dec 17 22:12:01 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 17 22:12:08 <gkatsev> dsevil: good points
Dec 17 22:12:41 <rwhitby> JayCanuck_: Telcel doctor link is up
Dec 17 22:13:09 <JayCanuck_> yep, added it to that one app already, heh
Dec 17 22:13:32 <dBsooner> Ares just went Public beta.
Dec 17 22:13:35 <dBsooner> retweeted.
Dec 17 22:13:37 <JayCanuck_> interesting that it's telcel specific and not a gerneric north american docter, eh?
Dec 17 22:13:58 <gkatsev> dBsooner: it did? sweet
Dec 17 22:14:09 <JayCanuck_> how is it?
Dec 17 22:14:27 <JayCanuck_> I'm a slave to komodo at the moment, lol
Dec 17 22:14:42 <dBsooner> I am still partial to Komodo myself
Dec 17 22:14:51 <gkatsev> lol, im sure Templarian is grinning right now
Dec 17 22:14:52 <dBsooner> but I was in the early beta of Ares, it's good...
Dec 17 22:14:59 <dsevil> teco forever!
Dec 17 22:15:13 <gkatsev> teco?
Dec 17 22:15:13 <egaudet_work> vi for life
Dec 17 22:15:19 <gkatsev> vim ftw
Dec 17 22:15:22 <dsevil> (i use emacs, for real.)
Dec 17 22:15:24 <JayCanuck_> any code-completion in ares?
Dec 17 22:15:35 * rwhitby uses emacs on the laptop to edit files directly on the Pre over wifi.
Dec 17 22:15:40 <bhern> ares.palm.com
Dec 17 22:15:41 <gkatsev> actually, what i do, is use vim, komodo autoreloads the pages and then i use templarians addon for deployment
Dec 17 22:15:51 <dBsooner> I haven't used in the past week.. but before it was really just good for UI dev. I didn't use it much for code completion.
Dec 17 22:16:13 <bhern> no code completion
Dec 17 22:16:27 <dBsooner> yeah, still more of a WYSIWYG editor
Dec 17 22:16:53 <bhern> but it is pretty darn cool
Dec 17 22:17:18 <egaudet_work> vi for life!
Dec 17 22:17:19 <dBsooner> Yeah, I think it is too.
Dec 17 22:17:26 <dBsooner> Forget GUI's!
Dec 17 22:17:32 <dBsooner> Give me text or give me death!
Dec 17 22:17:48 <egaudet_work> forget using the mouse
Dec 17 22:17:53 <dsevil> i generally hate IDEs, but having one online resolves many of my issues
Dec 17 22:18:01 <egaudet_work> you know how long it takes to move from the keyboard all the way to the mouse
Dec 17 22:18:03 <egaudet_work> ridiculous!
Dec 17 22:18:33 * dBsooner doesn't even have a mouse.
Dec 17 22:18:49 <egaudet_work> don't get me started on trackpads
Dec 17 22:18:57 <gkatsev> egaudet_work: ever used vimperator?
Dec 17 22:19:00 <dsevil> <-- big fan of the thinkpad clitmouse
Dec 17 22:19:00 <bhern> trackballs ftw!
Dec 17 22:19:30 <egaudet_work> gkatsev: yea but I find myself using the mouse far more often in the browser than the keyboard
Dec 17 22:19:35 <rwhitby> mind control of the cursor ...
Dec 17 22:19:36 <egaudet_work> I'm so used to just browsing with the mouse
Dec 17 22:19:55 <dBsooner> I have a trackball in my work van
Dec 17 22:20:02 <gkatsev> egaudet_work: yeah, same. but for most stuff, vimp/keyboard is so much more efficient
Dec 17 22:20:13 <dBsooner> it's much easier to use than this crappy touchpad.. especailly when hands are wet from sweat, or full of dirt.
Dec 17 22:20:25 <dBsooner> or have gloves on because it's cold as ice
Dec 17 22:20:34 <gkatsev> dBsooner: get the mouse with the fan built in
Dec 17 22:20:44 <dsevil> is ares.palm.com b0rken for anyone else or just me?
Dec 17 22:20:50 <gkatsev> just you
Dec 17 22:20:52 <rwhitby> dsevil: working here
Dec 17 22:20:53 <gkatsev> http://ares.palm.com/Ares/about.html
Dec 17 22:20:56 <dBsooner> mines working
Dec 17 22:21:12 <rwhitby> even took the forum login rather than requiring a new one
Dec 17 22:22:48 <dsevil> ah... i need firefox 3.5.x
Dec 17 22:22:54 <dsevil> i'm only running 3.0.14
Dec 17 22:23:29 <dsevil> st00pid debian, still no 3.5.x packages yet
Dec 17 22:23:38 <gkatsev> dsevil: use launchpad ppa
Dec 17 22:24:00 <gkatsev> dsevil: sure its an ubuntu repo, but it works just fine on debian as well
Dec 17 22:24:15 <gkatsev> dsevil: or upgrade to testing/unstable, im sure they have 3.5 by now
Dec 17 22:24:29 <dsevil> i use testing.
Dec 17 22:24:42 <dsevil> might have to add yet another ubuntu feed.
Dec 17 22:25:47 <gkatsev> why i kind of like ubuntu is that they have 6 months releases
Dec 17 22:26:12 <gkatsev> in karmic they baked a way to add ppas right into apt
Dec 17 22:29:03 * Templarian was grinning gkatsev :), but was also eating dinner.
Dec 17 22:29:04 <Abyssul> ares is in public beta? wow how awesome
Dec 17 22:29:30 <gkatsev> Templarian: you should integrate ares into komodo, lol
Dec 17 22:30:06 <Templarian> lol, I'm actually working on a large project atm, but that would be a cool idea.
Dec 17 22:30:31 <Templarian> (Plus tomorrow I drive 18 hours to florida)
Dec 17 22:30:51 <gkatsev> fun!
Dec 17 22:33:17 <pyro_28> hi any idea how I can uninstall a patch from preware I had to do a partial delete for some tech guy now preware doesn't know what's installed
Dec 17 22:33:30 <Abyssul> Haha, Ares doesn't have IE support
Dec 17 22:33:40 <gkatsev> why the hell should it? especially in beta?
Dec 17 22:33:46 <gkatsev> IE does not support html5
Dec 17 22:34:22 <Abyssul> Has anyone tried it out?
Dec 17 22:34:33 <gkatsev> ill try it out when i get home.
Dec 17 22:34:51 <gkatsev> but people had access to it early, so, im sure somsone here or on #webos tried it by now
Dec 17 22:34:59 * gkatsev ->  kendo practice
Dec 17 22:34:59 <Templarian> Yea, I've used it for a few minutes a while ago, but never got into it.
Dec 17 22:35:07 <bhern> it works quite well with Safari :)
Dec 17 22:35:29 <gkatsev> bye
Dec 17 22:37:02 <Abyssul> Anyone tried looking into how to extend the vibrate functionality?
Dec 17 22:37:04 <rwhitby> bhern: from what I can see, Ares looks like a great concept.  I like the integration with the SDK and Emulator.
Dec 17 22:37:30 <egaudet_work> pyro_28: install Emergency Patch Recovery
Dec 17 22:37:40 <egaudet_work> to remove all patches
Dec 17 22:37:57 <egaudet_work> and then you can re-install them
Dec 17 22:38:22 <linuxjacques> semantic point: is it really an emulator or an "emulation environment" ?
Dec 17 22:38:31 <linuxjacques> a read emulator would rock.
Dec 17 22:38:41 <linuxjacques> s/read/real/
Dec 17 22:38:41 <rwhitby> it's a webos emulator, not an omap emulator
Dec 17 22:38:43 <infobot> linuxjacques meant: a real emulator would rock.
Dec 17 22:39:01 <linuxjacques> infobot: thanks, nice to see you are finally getting on the ball
Dec 17 22:39:01 <infobot> no problem, linuxjacques
Dec 17 22:39:39 <rwhitby> it emulates the API, not the hardware, and does it by an x86 target in OE
Dec 17 22:39:52 <linuxjacques> how does it handle the DSP ?
Dec 17 22:39:58 <egaudet_work> bbl
Dec 17 22:41:32 <pyro_28> I didn't want too unless I had too lol
Dec 17 22:46:03 <linuxjacques> hmmm, it looks like my bitbake has made it past all the "dangerous" bits
Dec 17 22:50:10 <linuxjacques> any pointers to getting usbnet working to the pre?
Dec 17 22:51:16 * linuxjacques doesn't know nearly enough about the USB gadget subsystem.
Dec 17 22:53:04 <Abyssul> Do we have a tether solution for 1.3.1?
Dec 17 22:53:34 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: emulator doesn't do audio or video
Dec 17 22:54:27 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: :-|
Dec 17 22:58:46 <Decimate> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snXCC9mTvI4
Dec 17 23:01:31 <Abyssul> Are you serious?
Dec 17 23:03:02 <Abyssul> Do we take that as a compliment?
Dec 17 23:03:04 <Decimate> Abyssul: it looks JUST like it
Dec 17 23:03:09 <Decimate> EXACTLY like it
Dec 17 23:03:12 <Abyssul> Pretty close
Dec 17 23:03:14 <Decimate> its disappointing.
Dec 17 23:03:20 <Abyssul> there are animations that are off
Dec 17 23:03:27 <Abyssul> but its pretty damn god
Dec 17 23:03:30 <Abyssul> good*
Dec 17 23:03:47 <rwhitby> must be real, it has Preware in the app list
Dec 17 23:03:57 <Decimate> it seems like there are so many more possibilities on the iphone.
Dec 17 23:03:58 <Abyssul> Its not Preware
Dec 17 23:04:01 <Abyssul> its just the icon
Dec 17 23:05:02 <Abyssul> it has some tapping problems though. Like to select a card it seems
Dec 17 23:05:24 <Decimate> but they completely mimics our OS...almost to the T
Dec 17 23:05:33 <Decimate> mimiced*
Dec 17 23:05:43 <Abyssul> Its a nice complement, but then again it degrades us
Dec 17 23:06:06 <Templarian> Yea, it's pretty nice, seeing the Preware icon on there is kind of funny couldn't read what app they substitued the icon for.
Dec 17 23:06:14 <Abyssul> Calls?
Dec 17 23:06:26 <Decimate> Cydia
Dec 17 23:06:32 <Decimate> preware icon is for cydia.
Dec 17 23:06:34 <Templarian> Makes sense.
Dec 17 23:06:35 <Abyssul> oh
Dec 17 23:06:51 <Decimate> the installer made by saurik
Dec 17 23:07:00 <Abyssul> idk what cydia is lol but I can make a wild guess and say that its a iphone homebrew instaler?
Dec 17 23:07:10 <Decimate> Abyssul: yesir.
Dec 17 23:07:14 <Abyssul> Hmm
Dec 17 23:07:30 <Decimate> that really makes me mad.
Dec 17 23:07:43 <rwhitby> what does?
Dec 17 23:07:44 <Decimate> knowing how flexible the iphone OS is.
Dec 17 23:07:50 <Decimate> well, ours is too.
Dec 17 23:08:00 <Abyssul> But we dont have that kind of capability yet
Dec 17 23:08:04 <Decimate> but the flexibility they have is being taken advantage of.
Dec 17 23:08:07 <Templarian> It's not really flexible, flexible is the WM OS.
Dec 17 23:08:18 <Decimate> Abyssul: that makes me mad also,.
Dec 17 23:08:30 <destinal> Decimate:  it kind of is more flexible, because it's easier to reverse engineer objective c
Dec 17 23:08:40 <destinal> and dynamically override classes
Dec 17 23:08:57 <Templarian> Yea, but the fact that they have to write object c is their punishment for using the iPhone.
Dec 17 23:09:23 <Abyssul> But really... who is going to be able to do all that modding? The clear majority of smartphone users dont even use homebrew apps.
Dec 17 23:09:56 <destinal> Templarian: flexible is an open linux OS like openmoko or maemo
Dec 17 23:10:43 <destinal> though webos does fairly well at flexibility as well for classes of problems
Dec 17 23:11:03 <Decimate> they can mimic the look and feel of our who operating system and we can't even add widgets to our home screen...
Dec 17 23:11:34 <Abyssul> All we can make is small modifications to the source code
Dec 17 23:11:54 <Templarian> destinal: I meant in terms of skinning, but I would presume there can be skinned just as much.
Dec 17 23:12:45 <Decimate> On an off note - Ares is finally out, that's nice :)
Dec 17 23:12:48 <Abyssul> Is there a tether solution for 1.3.1? If so, where is a link?
Dec 17 23:13:31 * Templarian hasn't checked on freetethers progress in a while.
Dec 17 23:14:14 <Abyssul> Oh mytether works for 1.3.1
Dec 17 23:14:16 <edektor> Templarian: whats freetethers
Dec 17 23:14:23 <linuxjacques> anyone know about subversion.palm.com ? it's where some supposedly GPL'd source used in the webos OE build is stored
Dec 17 23:14:27 <edektor> Abyssul: Yeah but it patched the camera
Dec 17 23:14:33 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: yep, internal
Dec 17 23:14:40 <Abyssul> patched teh camera? umm what?
Dec 17 23:14:41 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: d'oh
Dec 17 23:14:59 <edektor> yeah I guess the camera had something that was preventing it from tethering
Dec 17 23:15:01 <linuxjacques> I wanna see what this goodfork stuff is
Dec 17 23:15:20 <Templarian> edektor: Oh some project that internals started, don't know where it went.
Dec 17 23:15:21 <Abyssul> well as long as it doesnt interfere with the camera functionality, but that seems weird lol
Dec 17 23:15:31 <linuxjacques> assume it's what includes the goodabort lib which some of the binaries dynamically link
Dec 17 23:15:37 <Abyssul> I think Puff gave up on it
Dec 17 23:15:39 <edektor> it make the camera unusable..
Dec 17 23:15:49 <edektor> until you unapply the patch and restart
Dec 17 23:15:57 <Abyssul> are you serious? wtf
Dec 17 23:16:04 <rwhitby> linuxjacques: opensource.palm.com
Dec 17 23:16:27 <edektor> yeah its got it's own patching/unpatching mechanism built in
Dec 17 23:17:16 <Abyssul> ima test it out
Dec 17 23:17:20 <linuxjacques> rwhitby: no goodfork there :-\
Dec 17 23:17:55 <edektor> It works great! except for the Cam
Dec 17 23:18:10 <Decimate> so who here has tried out Ares?
Dec 17 23:18:30 <edektor> Decimate: it's ok
Dec 17 23:18:32 <dsevil> I've been dicking around with it a bit.
Dec 17 23:18:37 <dsevil> Can't figure out how to delete a widget.
Dec 17 23:18:45 <Decimate> press delete on your keyboard.
Dec 17 23:18:46 <edektor> to learn from an stuff.
Dec 17 23:19:23 <dsevil> thanks!
Dec 17 23:19:24 <dsevil> haha
Dec 17 23:19:38 <edektor> but I have a bunch of different stuff open in different workspaces that I cant be tied to a single browser window
Dec 17 23:19:40 <Decimate> hah, yeah, took me a few minutes of trying to find it.
Dec 17 23:20:32 <edektor> Debugging is better in it though
Dec 17 23:24:49 <bhern> dsevil: you can also selecte the "view" tab in the left side, select an item and click the red X above the list
Dec 17 23:24:54 <Decimate> That YouView app is pretty much AMAZING
Dec 17 23:25:26 <bhern> it's good for harder to see or click on elements
Dec 17 23:27:49 <Abyssul> YouView app?
Dec 17 23:28:14 <Decimate> http://forums.precentral.net/syntactix-llc/216863-youview-visual-voicemail-app.html
Dec 17 23:30:03 <Abyssul> Umm... this works without google voice?
Dec 17 23:30:11 <Abyssul> just plug and play?
Dec 17 23:30:48 <Abyssul> or am i missing the concept
Dec 17 23:31:35 <Decimate> Abyssul: YouMail
Dec 17 23:31:42 <Decimate> uses the free youmail service.
Dec 17 23:31:42 <Abyssul> Never heard of it til now lol
Dec 17 23:32:11 <oc80z_> whats good.
Dec 17 23:32:13 <Decimate> you just go on your dialer, set up voicemail forwarding, and whenever you get a voicemail, it is able to be viewed visually.
Dec 17 23:32:24 <Abyssul> hmmm
Dec 17 23:32:24 <Decimate> app alerts you just like a regular voicemail
Dec 17 23:32:32 <Abyssul> Spiffy
Dec 17 23:32:38 <Decimate> its nothing short of a full visual voicemail app, i like it.
Dec 17 23:32:45 <oc80z_> ò¿ó Palm loses $85.4 million in latest reported quarter -- hey, it's an improvement -- Engadget
Dec 17 23:32:46 <Abyssul> But I need to sign up for youmail
Dec 17 23:32:48 <oc80z_> ew
Dec 17 23:33:21 <Decimate> yeah, its free though.
Dec 17 23:33:41 <Abyssul> ima set it up :)
Dec 17 23:33:48 <Abyssul> does the text translations work accurately?
Dec 17 23:34:06 <Decimate> text translations cost money, but i hear they are extremely accurate.
Dec 17 23:34:07 <destinal> oc80z: oh wow, yeah, half their net loss of last time is a lot better
Dec 17 23:34:29 <Decimate> Abyssul: app is in closed beta though, but if you follow instructions, you'll get accepted within a day or two...
Dec 17 23:34:34 <Abyssul> k
Dec 17 23:35:14 <Abyssul> Doesnt google do text translations?
Dec 17 23:36:38 <Decimate> yeah, they suck though.
Dec 17 23:36:47 <Abyssul> hmmm
Dec 17 23:36:54 <Decimate> anyone know how to use google wave..ive been in the beta for like.. a month and i just dont know how to use it.
Dec 17 23:37:05 <Decimate> a lesson = an invite? :)
Dec 17 23:38:20 <Abyssul> hmm.... youmail is better working but google has text translations lol
Dec 17 23:38:37 <Decimate> lol, use whatever is better for you.
Dec 17 23:38:41 <Abyssul> yea :p
Dec 17 23:38:46 <Decimate> i hate text translations.
Dec 17 23:38:53 <Abyssul> need a google voice invite though first lol
Dec 17 23:39:06 <Decimate> anyone want a google wave invite? i have 25
Dec 17 23:39:37 <Decimate> i wish i could sent out google voice invites :/
Dec 17 23:40:01 <oc80z_> heh destinal :/
Dec 17 23:41:25 <Abyssul> Anyone wanna shoot me a google voice invite? jw :)
Dec 17 23:42:03 <Decimate> i wish it was possible Abyssul :/
Dec 17 23:43:02 <linuxjacques> where is the best place to read about the webos service framework?
Dec 17 23:45:15 <Abyssul> I thought people who already have voice, can invite others?
Dec 17 23:45:17 <Abyssul> Like Wave
Dec 17 23:45:45 <destinal> oc80z_: well, in all seriousness, a company their size is expected to lose a lot of money before becoming profitable
Dec 17 23:46:29 <Abyssul> Its just good to know that the net loss isn't growing, but instead diminishing
Dec 17 23:46:52 <Abyssul> Also, there are major plans for WebOS to expand into a ton of markets
Dec 17 23:49:02 <rwhitby> Templarian: ping
Dec 17 23:50:38 <tmzt> Abyssul: only 3 invites
Dec 17 23:51:59 <Decimate> tmzt: if you have voice, you can send others invites? :/
Dec 17 23:52:20 <tmzt> only a few
Dec 17 23:52:24 <tmzt> mine are taken
Dec 17 23:52:31 <Decimate> i didnt see a spot to send any
Dec 17 23:52:36 <oc80z_> yes destinal
Dec 17 23:52:59 <Decimate> nvm
Dec 17 23:53:00 <Decimate> found it
Dec 17 23:53:07 <Decimate> Abyssul: what email do you want me to use
Dec 17 23:53:08 <Decimate> ?
Dec 17 23:53:12 <oc80z_> agreed.
Dec 17 23:53:56 <rwhitby> Is anyone in the LA area?
Dec 17 23:54:40 <Decimate> Abyssul: final chanceee :)
Dec 17 23:55:46 <linuxjacques> Los Angeles, California, US
Dec 17 23:55:50 <rwhitby> Anyone who might be going to SCALE ?
Dec 17 23:56:14 <rwhitby> https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale8x/
Dec 17 23:56:16 <dBsooner> if someone puts me up for the 3 days at a hotel, I'll go.
Dec 18 00:01:13 <dBsooner> :D
Dec 18 00:01:28 <dBsooner> rwhitby should go.
Dec 18 00:01:39 <dBsooner> It's just a skip across the big bond.
Dec 18 00:01:41 <rwhitby> we're going to have a booth there
Dec 18 00:01:47 <dBsooner> You going?
Dec 18 00:02:58 <rwhitby> probably not, but we're trying to do a presentation
Dec 18 00:03:07 <rwhitby> the booth is confirmed
Dec 18 00:03:21 <dBsooner> Free?
Dec 18 00:03:24 <dBsooner> I mean it is FOSS...
Dec 18 00:03:37 <rwhitby> we're looking for volunteers to help man the booth - helpers get a free pass to the talks
Dec 18 00:03:49 <rwhitby> we're not paying a cent
Dec 18 00:04:05 <dBsooner> I'll do my best to get a plane ticket.. I remember it was going to cost me 700 to go to ADP..
Dec 18 00:04:38 <rwhitby> but we can't afford to pay for people to get there or to stay there
Dec 18 00:05:41 <dBsooner> I know, I was kidding.
Dec 18 00:05:56 <dBsooner> I will have to look over my budget. Christmas has me a little strapped.
Dec 18 00:07:50 <dBsooner> We should get a booth in Vegas.
Dec 18 00:07:52 <dBsooner> I'd go to that for sure.
Dec 18 00:15:05 <egaudet> what is r-s permission
Dec 18 00:15:23 <tmzt> read and setuid
Dec 18 00:15:46 <dBsooner> so any file stored in that dir will get uid of user
Dec 18 00:15:47 <tmzt> when is it?
Dec 18 00:15:56 <dBsooner> or if a file changes it gets the uid of the changer
Dec 18 00:16:11 <tmzt> no where near there, might have a place to stay with a bit of notice
Dec 18 00:16:17 <tmzt> but not sure
Dec 18 00:16:28 <egaudet> well it doesn't like moving it to /media/internal/ partition
Dec 18 00:16:37 <tmzt> oh, sticky? oops
Dec 18 00:17:54 <dBsooner> because /media/internal can't keep permissions?
Dec 18 00:18:15 <tmzt> because it's vfat
Dec 18 00:18:29 <dBsooner> yes, very fat.
Dec 18 00:19:28 <egaudet> rwhitby, ping
Dec 18 00:19:36 <egaudet> yea it can't keep permissions
Dec 18 00:19:41 <rwhitby> egaudet: syn|ack
Dec 18 00:20:06 * dBsooner wonders if rwhitby can type 'syn|ack' faster than pong
Dec 18 00:20:15 * dBsooner also wonders if rwhitby just likes to be different.
Dec 18 00:20:16 <egaudet> couple things.  virtual-keyboard/ folder that is being moved to /media/internal/ is failing because of permission
Dec 18 00:21:18 <egaudet> and how can I build locally now with signing
Dec 18 00:25:00 <rwhitby> egaudet: hmm - I guess I need to put a conditional test in there
Dec 18 00:25:51 <rwhitby> egaudet: or just comment out the SIGNER line in common.mk
Dec 18 00:25:55 <Robi_> ares looks cool
Dec 18 00:26:13 <egaudet> perfect
Dec 18 00:26:44 <ka6sox> linuxjacques you here?
Dec 18 00:37:46 <PuffTheMagic> on the train again....
Dec 18 00:38:57 <Robi_> can ares import an existing project?
Dec 18 00:39:43 <rwhitby> bhern: we need git support in Ares !
Dec 18 00:39:53 <rwhitby> (it does svn and hg it seems)
Dec 18 00:40:26 <oc80z_> whats the ah , ffmpeg -syntax -for x480x320? ... for the .mp4 pre
Dec 18 00:40:47 <Robi_> rwhitby: shoudl be simple enough if it does svn
Dec 18 00:41:28 <Robi_> oc80z_: isn't that in the precorder code?
Dec 18 00:50:23 <bhern> Robi_: yes
Dec 18 00:50:48 <bhern> you can zip it up and drag-n-drop it up
Dec 18 00:51:30 <bhern> select Files tab. zip you app up. select the "Applications" folder and drop-n-drop it
Dec 18 00:51:37 <bhern> (bottom left corner)
Dec 18 00:51:46 <bhern> perhaps we should have an ares channel
Dec 18 01:01:28 <oc80z_> grr robi
Dec 18 01:01:31 <oc80z_> i hope so
Dec 18 01:10:01 * linuxjacques is changing locations and will be on later.
Dec 18 01:10:39 <oc80z_> yop
Dec 18 01:15:26 * Mercury wonders when 0.3.5 will be out and what Palm will include. :)
Dec 18 01:15:52 <dBsooner> only Palm knows when a new release will come and what version number it will actually be.
Dec 18 01:15:57 <Mercury> Er, 1.3.5, darnit.
Dec 18 01:15:59 * Mercury nods.
Dec 18 01:16:00 <Mercury> True.
Dec 18 01:17:25 <dBsooner> grrr
Dec 18 01:17:30 <dBsooner> where is PuffTheMagic when you need him
Dec 18 01:17:40 <PuffTheMagic> on a train
Dec 18 01:17:43 <dBsooner> I can never get freeTether to work
Dec 18 01:17:56 <rwhitby> dBsooner: actually, 1.3.5 was announced today by Rubenstein
Dec 18 01:17:56 <dBsooner> i isntalled it, opened it, plugged in usb.. and nothn ghappens
Dec 18 01:17:59 <PuffTheMagic> remote myTether and reboot
Dec 18 01:18:15 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: bt and usb both work
Dec 18 01:18:15 <dBsooner> I don't have myTether.. never have.
Dec 18 01:18:23 <PuffTheMagic> well your windows suks
Dec 18 01:18:34 <rwhitby> that's a given
Dec 18 01:18:39 <dBsooner> freeTether doesn't even show an IP address
Dec 18 01:18:46 <PuffTheMagic> lol
Dec 18 01:18:52 <PuffTheMagic> thats cause the service isnt running
Dec 18 01:19:02 <PuffTheMagic> it would if it were running
Dec 18 01:19:02 <dBsooner> sure it is
Dec 18 01:19:16 <PuffTheMagic> you should see an IP address for all your interfaces
Dec 18 01:19:19 <PuffTheMagic> if it was running
Dec 18 01:19:26 * ird wonders what WebOS 0.3.5 was like
Dec 18 01:19:29 <dBsooner> do you know where to look on 1.3.5?
Dec 18 01:19:44 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: huh?
Dec 18 01:20:02 <dBsooner> does it matter that the dir to your service install isn't in /var?
Dec 18 01:20:27 <PuffTheMagic> well i didnt use ipk to install it
Dec 18 01:20:30 <PuffTheMagic> on 1.3.5
Dec 18 01:20:36 <PuffTheMagic> so maybe rwhitby broke it
Dec 18 01:20:36 * dBsooner grumbles.
Dec 18 01:20:37 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Dec 18 01:20:48 <dBsooner> is your service an upstart?
Dec 18 01:20:53 <PuffTheMagic> yup
Dec 18 01:21:12 <dBsooner> in /etc/event.d?
Dec 18 01:21:17 <oc80z_> look in device manager PuffTheMagic
Dec 18 01:21:19 <PuffTheMagic> yup
Dec 18 01:21:21 * rwhitby hasn't touched freetetherd or wircd from a future webOS point of view
Dec 18 01:21:23 <dBsooner> service name?
Dec 18 01:21:25 <PuffTheMagic> oc80z_: wtf u tlaking about
Dec 18 01:21:30 <oc80z_> you in apple/linux?
Dec 18 01:21:44 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i thought u said you were gonna update wircd so you could use it
Dec 18 01:21:44 <oc80z_> dunno i just poppd in m8
Dec 18 01:22:02 <PuffTheMagic> oc80z_: pop out
Dec 18 01:22:08 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: mind if I convert freeTetherD to use IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT?
Dec 18 01:22:09 <oc80z_> PuffTheMagic: pop off umumz
Dec 18 01:22:13 <dBsooner> the postinst and stuff
Dec 18 01:22:31 <PuffTheMagic> ummm
Dec 18 01:22:32 <twixt> anyone else having issues with gmail push lately?
Dec 18 01:22:40 <twixt> ie, just plain not working :(
Dec 18 01:22:49 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: i dont know what I want to do witht he C services
Dec 18 01:22:51 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: trust me, I know what I am doing and rwhitby always double checks my works
Dec 18 01:23:02 <dBsooner> I was just going to fix the postinst script
Dec 18 01:23:09 <dBsooner> to not try to copy hard coded /var
Dec 18 01:23:19 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: well its not broken
Dec 18 01:23:34 <PuffTheMagic> it should install and run form /var just fine
Dec 18 01:23:40 <PuffTheMagic> i dont think palm will move it
Dec 18 01:23:43 <PuffTheMagic> since its not a mojo app
Dec 18 01:23:49 <dBsooner> umm.. its NOT installed in /var
Dec 18 01:23:58 <dBsooner> its installed in /media/cryptofs/apps
Dec 18 01:24:06 <dBsooner> and your postinst tries to copy /var/
Dec 18 01:24:09 <dBsooner> and its not there.
Dec 18 01:24:35 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: why its it automatically getting installed to /media/cryptofs/apps
Dec 18 01:24:38 <PuffTheMagic> something broke
Dec 18 01:24:53 <dBsooner> cp /var/etc/event.d/${PID} /etc/event.d/${PID}
Dec 18 01:24:55 <dBsooner> that line
Dec 18 01:25:13 <dBsooner> because IPKG does "ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install us.ryanhope.freetetherd"
Dec 18 01:25:17 <PuffTheMagic> the issue is that ipkgservice is forcing it to go into cryptofs
Dec 18 01:25:28 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 18 01:25:28 <dBsooner> yes.. because ipkg doesn't exist in /var anymore
Dec 18 01:26:05 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: do what ever i dont give a shit
Dec 18 01:26:08 <georgeascott> hello.  do patches need to be removed when updating apps? not the whole webos?
Dec 18 01:26:19 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: lol.. easy there killer
Dec 18 01:26:29 <dBsooner> georgeascott: negative
Dec 18 01:27:08 <georgeascott> dBsooner: much thanks.
Dec 18 01:27:36 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: I won't touch it if its a huge issue. I'll just edit my scripts locally.
Dec 18 01:44:56 <egaudet> "ipkg doesn't exist in /var anymore" doesn't really matter.  We COULD still use /var as offline root.  But to keep consistent with Palm it will stop being used yea
Dec 18 01:45:08 <egaudet> brb
Dec 18 01:46:03 <tmzt> opt now right?
Dec 18 01:46:11 <dBsooner> no
Dec 18 01:46:17 <tmzt> oh, then?
Dec 18 01:46:22 <dBsooner> and no more talky.. I guess we are still under NDA
Dec 18 01:46:23 <dBsooner> ;)
Dec 18 01:46:47 <tmzt> huh?
Dec 18 01:47:13 <tmzt> what is event.d?
Dec 18 01:54:19 <dBsooner> holy sh!t
Dec 18 01:54:27 <dBsooner> I think I just figured out what was stealing all my memory
Dec 18 01:55:31 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: cryptofs knowledge is in public domain now since it was leaked like 2 weeks ago
Dec 18 01:55:50 <dBsooner> well, I was just going on what rwhitby had pm'd me.. "NDA"
Dec 18 01:55:56 <dBsooner> I listen to the boss
Dec 18 01:56:16 <PuffTheMagic> what 2+ weeks ago
Dec 18 01:56:22 <dBsooner> no, like 2+ mins ago
Dec 18 01:59:30 <Mousey> what we need is a vnc-server for webos
Dec 18 01:59:49 <PuffTheMagic> why
Dec 18 02:00:00 <PuffTheMagic> client maybe
Dec 18 02:00:14 <PuffTheMagic> ohh err
Dec 18 02:00:18 <Mousey> no no no, server!
Dec 18 02:00:19 <PuffTheMagic> vnc not vpn
Dec 18 02:00:26 <PuffTheMagic> fuck vnc
Dec 18 02:00:29 <Mousey> yes, vnc
Dec 18 02:00:38 <Mousey> rdp?
Dec 18 02:00:56 <PuffTheMagic> why would u need/want this?
Dec 18 02:01:49 <Mousey> Seriously? vnc would be cool. I can leave my bt headset in, phone in pocket, vnc'd in on notebook/desktop, and when it rings, unminimize it to decide if i want to answer
Dec 18 02:01:57 <Mousey> -besides- all the other stuff i'd do
Dec 18 02:02:14 <PuffTheMagic> that is so retarded
Dec 18 02:02:31 <Mousey> you only say that because it's a new idea and it scares og
Dec 18 02:02:32 <Mousey> rar!
Dec 18 02:03:02 <Mousey> but there's a vnc server for iPhone and n900 that function the same way, and it's *useful*
Dec 18 02:03:12 <PuffTheMagic> lol useful
Dec 18 02:03:14 <PuffTheMagic> ok
Dec 18 02:03:18 <ka6sox> I like it!
Dec 18 02:03:39 <PuffTheMagic> there is not 1 useful reason for it
Dec 18 02:03:50 <Mousey> PuffTheMagic: sigh
Dec 18 02:03:52 <ka6sox> PuffTheMagic, but there IS
Dec 18 02:04:34 <PuffTheMagic> no there isnt, being too lazy to take your phone out your pocket is not a good use of vnc
Dec 18 02:04:36 <PuffTheMagic> its lame
Dec 18 02:04:49 <Mousey> actually, it's not lame
Dec 18 02:04:52 <ka6sox> its NOT.
Dec 18 02:04:59 <PuffTheMagic> keep telling your self that
Dec 18 02:05:08 <Mousey> i'm working on a wearable display, and being able to see my phone without taking off my monitor would be a great benefit
Dec 18 02:05:33 <ka6sox> when debugging apps its MUCH easier to work on a FULL size keyboard with a bigger screen :P
Dec 18 02:05:35 <Mousey> being able to check things in my phone without going downstairs to get it off the charger would be a great benefit
Dec 18 02:05:47 <PuffTheMagic> ka6sox: its call the emulator
Dec 18 02:06:08 <PuffTheMagic> Mousey: you only have 1 power outlet in your house?
Dec 18 02:06:13 <ka6sox> emulators are not PERFECT.
Dec 18 02:06:45 <ka6sox> PuffTheMagic,  you don't have to use it...those of us who appreciate it will.
Dec 18 02:06:54 <Mousey> PuffTheMagic: i have a charging station in the kitchen for both my and my wife's pre's
Dec 18 02:07:02 <Mousey> we don't carry them around from room to room
Dec 18 02:07:08 <Mousey> whereas, i do always have a notebook
Dec 18 02:07:51 <ka6sox> I wear a BT headset for my phone...1/2 the time I'm fumbling around to figure out who is calling.
Dec 18 02:08:18 <ka6sox> so being able to see my phone when its in my pocket is useful.
Dec 18 02:08:21 <PuffTheMagic> ka6sox: you one of those people that wear bt all day long everywhere you go?
Dec 18 02:08:31 <Mousey> PuffTheMagic, a lot of people do
Dec 18 02:08:39 <Mousey> PuffTheMagic: it's *useful*
Dec 18 02:08:49 <ka6sox> PuffTheMagic, in my business its required.
Dec 18 02:08:56 * PuffTheMagic guesses ka6sox drivers a bimmer too
Dec 18 02:09:02 <Mousey> lol
Dec 18 02:09:06 * Mousey tries to imagine ka6sox in a bmw
Dec 18 02:09:17 <ka6sox> nope, but I *do* drive at least 4hrs/day
Dec 18 02:09:28 <bpadalino> why would he need a bluetooth headset if he were in a bimmer ?
Dec 18 02:09:42 <ka6sox> and where I live you get big fines for holding up your phone to your ear or playing with it.
Dec 18 02:09:50 <PuffTheMagic> bpadalino: cause wearing bt headset makes you cool
Dec 18 02:10:05 <bpadalino> but the bimmer already has plenty of bluetooth
Dec 18 02:10:11 <Mousey> anyway.. a vnc server would be very cool
Dec 18 02:10:13 <ka6sox> PuffTheMagic, its *REQUIRED* by LAW for me to use it.
Dec 18 02:10:15 <Mousey> all the other smartphones are doing it
Dec 18 02:10:28 <ird> I hate when I go to the gas station, and the guy at the register is talking to someone on a bt headset while taking my money.
Dec 18 02:10:31 <PuffTheMagic> bpadalino: i didnt say a new bimmer
Dec 18 02:10:34 <Mousey> tho it's about 5th on my wishlist
Dec 18 02:10:35 <bpadalino> ooh
Dec 18 02:10:43 <ird> Oh, in Farsi btw
Dec 18 02:10:46 <PuffTheMagic> ka6sox: what law says on earth says you have to use bt?
Dec 18 02:10:51 <Mousey> ird: at least both hands are free ^_^
Dec 18 02:10:54 <bpadalino> i liked the bt integration in the a4 better than the 3 series :(
Dec 18 02:11:03 <PuffTheMagic> s/says on earch/on earth says/
Dec 18 02:11:19 <PuffTheMagic> i hate bt integration in all cars
Dec 18 02:11:22 <ka6sox> in my State its required to use a BT headset when you are in a vehicle and its moving
Dec 18 02:11:23 <PuffTheMagic> that i have tried
Dec 18 02:11:25 <ka6sox> (or pull over and talk)
Dec 18 02:11:38 <PuffTheMagic> ka6sox: BT or handsfree?
Dec 18 02:11:39 <ka6sox> if I pulled over every time I got a call I wouldn't move very much.
Dec 18 02:11:50 <PuffTheMagic> ka6sox: and i didnt know you were talking about just driving
Dec 18 02:12:02 <PuffTheMagic> i thought some state makes you use a bt while walking too
Dec 18 02:12:12 <PuffTheMagic> or sitting in your living room
Dec 18 02:12:17 <ka6sox> we arent that crazy yet.
Dec 18 02:12:38 <Mousey> still.. testing, basic access, whatever, vnc server would be totally useful
Dec 18 02:13:04 <PuffTheMagic> then build one
Dec 18 02:13:09 <Mousey> inorite?!
Dec 18 02:13:17 <PuffTheMagic> ?
Dec 18 02:13:18 <dBsooner> there we go
Dec 18 02:13:22 <dBsooner> I think..
Dec 18 02:13:41 * Mousey learns to program from scratch, in hopes he'll be able to figure it out before WebOS is replaced by something else
Dec 18 02:13:58 <dBsooner> Your IP Address Is: 173.130.212.148
Dec 18 02:15:38 <dBsooner> http://www.speedtest.net/result/655923788.png
Dec 18 02:15:50 <dBsooner> not bad for very very fringe EVDO coverage
Dec 18 02:16:41 * ka6sox looks at what he deps are for vncserver.
Dec 18 02:16:56 * ird Zzzz...
Dec 18 02:18:15 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: finally working?
Dec 18 02:18:24 <dBsooner> yeah
Dec 18 02:18:35 <dBsooner> A couple things I was doin wrong:
Dec 18 02:18:36 <dBsooner> 1) didn't turn off wifi
Dec 18 02:18:49 <dBsooner> 2) had the wrong Microsoft Corp driver installed for NDIS
Dec 18 02:19:10 <dBsooner> 1a) on the Pre itself*
Dec 18 02:23:49 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: lol.... you know you bitched at someone (i forget who) like 2 weeks ago when he told you your driver was wrong and you said u were not an idiot
Dec 18 02:23:49 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Dec 18 02:24:02 <dBsooner> no i didn't
Dec 18 02:24:07 <dBsooner> he never told me it was wrong
Dec 18 02:24:11 <dBsooner> he TOLD ME the wrong one
Dec 18 02:24:30 <dBsooner> he told me to use NDIS Internet Sharing Device
Dec 18 02:24:39 <dBsooner> the proper one is NDIS Composite Device
Dec 18 02:30:06 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: in an upstart script, can you ahve respawn inside a "script/endscript"?
Dec 18 02:30:28 <PuffTheMagic> idk what you are asking me
Dec 18 02:30:41 <PuffTheMagic> but im pretty sure my script works fine
Dec 18 02:30:48 <PuffTheMagic> worked
Dec 18 02:31:00 <dBsooner> no.. it doesn't. :D
Dec 18 02:31:02 <dBsooner> I promise.
Dec 18 02:31:27 <dBsooner> because /var/usr/bin/us.ryanhope.freetetherd does not exist
Dec 18 02:31:35 <PuffTheMagic> it does pre 1.3.5
Dec 18 02:31:49 <tmzt> dBsooner: no
Dec 18 02:32:04 <tmzt> respawn is a keyword for upstart
Dec 18 02:32:13 <dBsooner> tmzt ok
Dec 18 02:32:17 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: why are you messing with all that shit
Dec 18 02:32:26 <PuffTheMagic> just change /var/ to whatever it should be
Dec 18 02:32:30 <dBsooner> PuffTheMagic: because of how it installs on 1.3.5
Dec 18 02:32:36 <dBsooner> I did locally
Dec 18 02:32:41 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: dont mess with it in the repo
Dec 18 02:32:42 <dBsooner> i have it working fine locally
Dec 18 02:32:45 <dBsooner> fine
Dec 18 02:33:25 <dBsooner> well then you fix it. ;)
Dec 18 02:33:38 <egaudet> Update All, removal failed yet it continued to try to install...
Dec 18 02:33:44 <dBsooner> becasue I am sure I will have to reinstall it soon
Dec 18 02:34:25 <PuffTheMagic> i have a feeling my webos hacking time is gonna drop to nil soon
Dec 18 02:34:42 <PuffTheMagic> i have like less than 30 days to find a place ot live in Troy
Dec 18 02:34:52 <dBsooner> ouch
Dec 18 02:35:01 <dBsooner> so let me fix the upstart and postinst
Dec 18 02:35:06 <PuffTheMagic> nope
Dec 18 02:35:14 <dBsooner> I have it working fine.. just didn't know if you needed to respawn
Dec 18 02:35:22 <egaudet> why does /var/usr/bin not work?
Dec 18 02:35:25 <egaudet> the packaging is wrong
Dec 18 02:35:27 <dBsooner> if you used script/endscript
Dec 18 02:35:35 <dBsooner> grrrr
Dec 18 02:35:43 <dBsooner> egaudet.. because of -o not being /var
Dec 18 02:36:08 <tmzt> PuffTheMagic: michigan?
Dec 18 02:36:11 <egaudet> yea change the postinst to mv $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT/usr/bin/freeTetherD to /var/usr/bin/freeTetherD if you want it to stay in var
Dec 18 02:36:18 <PuffTheMagic> tmzt: Troy, NY
Dec 18 02:36:22 <tmzt> ah
Dec 18 02:36:23 <PuffTheMagic> dont change shit
Dec 18 02:36:34 <dBsooner> he told me not to touch anything
Dec 18 02:36:36 <dBsooner> :D
Dec 18 02:36:38 <egaudet> PuffTheMagic, then you do it
Dec 18 02:36:42 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: i dont think you "can" touch it
Dec 18 02:36:44 <egaudet> something has to change :p
Dec 18 02:36:49 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: i will when i get around to it
Dec 18 02:37:02 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: i was under the impression that rwhitby already had
Dec 18 02:37:07 <PuffTheMagic> cause he asked me if he could
Dec 18 02:37:20 <egaudet> didn't he ask you that like 10 minutes ago before he bbl'd
Dec 18 02:37:24 <dBsooner> What do you think I am incompitent or what?
Dec 18 02:37:36 <egaudet> incompitent hehe
Dec 18 02:37:40 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: no... like 2 weeks ago he was converting stuff
Dec 18 02:37:43 <egaudet> oh
Dec 18 02:37:50 <PuffTheMagic> and he asked me about wircd
Dec 18 02:37:53 <PuffTheMagic> and i said i woudl do it
Dec 18 02:37:53 <egaudet> OK back to ugly patching for me
Dec 18 02:37:56 <PuffTheMagic> then he asked again
Dec 18 02:37:59 <PuffTheMagic> cause he said he wanted to use it
Dec 18 02:38:10 <egaudet> slacker
Dec 18 02:38:20 <PuffTheMagic> so i figured he did or was gonna do freeTether too
Dec 18 02:38:20 <PuffTheMagic> but w/e
Dec 18 02:38:36 * egaudet doesn't have 1.3.5 yet so I don't care.... YET
Dec 18 02:38:55 <PuffTheMagic> i think instead of packing the binary in the ipk
Dec 18 02:38:57 <PuffTheMagic> i will just use post inst to wget the file
Dec 18 02:38:59 <dBsooner> So, again, do you think I am not capable of doing it right?
Dec 18 02:39:02 <PuffTheMagic> into what ever dir i fee like
Dec 18 02:39:04 <PuffTheMagic> ;)
Dec 18 02:39:11 <egaudet> why?
Dec 18 02:39:36 <egaudet> what's the advantage of wget the file separately vs. move the file from the extracted ipk?
Dec 18 02:39:41 <PuffTheMagic> dBsooner: there are more than 1 "right" way
Dec 18 02:39:48 <egaudet> rarely ;)
Dec 18 02:40:27 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: cause then i dont have to worry about the binary being installed somwhere then have to copy it or symlink it or something
Dec 18 02:40:42 <PuffTheMagic> there is more than one way to do it so that "it works"
Dec 18 02:40:44 <PuffTheMagic> no way it more right than another
Dec 18 02:40:56 <egaudet> I don't get that first statement?
Dec 18 02:41:26 <egaudet> the ipk is gotten over the network and extracted.  You always know that it is extracted to $IPK_OFFLINE_ROOT, what is the "worry"
Dec 18 02:41:46 <PuffTheMagic> egaudet: i wont want the binary to live where it is extracted
Dec 18 02:41:54 <egaudet> mv...
Dec 18 02:42:08 <egaudet> mv $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT/whereveryouputthebinary /wehrever/you/want/the/binary
Dec 18 02:42:11 <egaudet> vs.
Dec 18 02:42:24 <PuffTheMagic> why do that
Dec 18 02:42:38 <egaudet> because it's part of the package
Dec 18 02:42:41 <egaudet> and should be packaged
Dec 18 02:42:55 <egaudet> and there's no need to wget the ipk and then run the postinst which wget the binary
Dec 18 02:42:55 <PuffTheMagic> when i can wget it right wher ei want it
Dec 18 02:42:58 <egaudet> doesn't make sense to me
Dec 18 02:43:11 <egaudet> again, what does that SOLVE for you
Dec 18 02:43:31 <egaudet> why wget it to where you want it rather than move it to where you want it?  I dont' get what the problem is?
Dec 18 02:43:46 <egaudet> you could wget the upstart too
Dec 18 02:43:50 <PuffTheMagic> why is mv more correct?
Dec 18 02:43:53 <egaudet> and wget everything else
Dec 18 02:44:02 <egaudet> because then everything that the package needs can be put in the package
Dec 18 02:44:18 <egaudet> and if the package moves you dont' have to make sure dependent files in other places go with it
Dec 18 02:44:43 <PuffTheMagic> w/e.... id ont really care about this right now
Dec 18 02:44:44 <egaudet> the whole point of packaging
Dec 18 02:47:27 <egaudet> rwhitby, update all failed.  the prerm returned error but preware still removed the package and then tried to install it.
Dec 18 02:47:31 <egaudet> oil_, ^^
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 18 02:59:56 2009