**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 19 02:59:56 2009 Dec 19 03:24:43 we can arrange a pink pixi. Dec 19 03:24:48 Anything is paintable. Dec 19 03:24:59 I know someone who is perfectly capable of the work. Dec 19 03:25:31 but you need to get her to get the artist series back-plates. Snakeskin to match her boots..... Dec 19 03:30:49 jhojho: an ex of mine had a blue everything. Dec 19 03:31:18 car, laptop, phone, camera... Dec 19 03:38:04 blue is okay. pink is just so PINK Dec 19 03:38:13 in other news. my macbook is here!!!!! Dec 19 03:38:35 now crossing fingers that I dont have another broken one like the first one. Dec 19 03:39:00 i'm afraid to start it up Dec 19 03:54:57 the.office.mp4 18% 12MB 173.0KB/s 05:13 ETA Dec 19 03:54:57 Sprint 3G Dec 19 03:55:09 Faster than DSL. Dec 19 03:55:37 and you're downloading movies over it? Dec 19 03:55:38 lol Dec 19 03:55:50 videos/tvshows* Dec 19 04:24:47 12mb? what is that a 3 minute clip? Dec 19 04:26:38 Hello Dec 19 04:27:03 So, I've decided to create my first patch for webos, and I a question Dec 19 04:27:14 could be a compressed h264 1/2hr episode Dec 19 04:27:23 adamrmcd: shoot Dec 19 04:27:29 :) Dec 19 04:27:47 One of the files i'm looking to modify has already been touched by several patches already installed on my Pre Dec 19 04:28:04 is Quilt smart enough to "do the right thing" and munge multiple patches together when installing? Dec 19 04:28:24 or, should I try to revert this file back to its original state before I try coding my change? Dec 19 04:28:43 adamrmcd: you should really create the patch on a virgin emulator Dec 19 04:28:56 :) that's probably a good idea ;) Dec 19 04:29:48 The patch I'm creating allows the user to select their IM status (online, away, offline) in the device menu. Dec 19 04:30:11 eventually this will lead to a program that automagically sets your status to "away" if idle Dec 19 04:31:14 adamrmcd: yeah, I'm after something like that Dec 19 04:32:38 * rwhitby needs a good scripting interface to dbus on the Pre Dec 19 04:32:38 I plan on querying the accelerometer every X minutes to see if the device is "moving" Dec 19 04:33:17 with enough fuzz hopefully it can determine if its in your pocket or sitting on the desk. Dec 19 04:34:17 but interpreting /var/tmp/hidd/AccelerometerEventSocket should be fun Dec 19 04:34:21 adamrmcd: but yes, the patch should be against orginal files Dec 19 04:34:55 Will Quilt properly munch multiple patches together, esp if their chunks are fairly close to each other? Dec 19 04:35:22 adamrmcd: well, we don't actually use quilt for patches any more in Prewar Dec 19 04:35:25 Preware Dec 19 04:35:44 we just run straight patch Dec 19 04:35:50 hmm. Dec 19 04:36:04 adamrmcd: are you going to write a service for looking at the hidd socket? Dec 19 04:36:17 That's the plan Dec 19 04:36:36 Java or C ? Dec 19 04:36:37 I've found that the built in event-watcher will not be sufficient. I cannot have a program running in the foreground (defeats the purpose) Dec 19 04:37:19 Possibly extend the AccelerometerService to do some sort of one-time query directly Dec 19 04:37:50 adamrmcd: are you interested in distributing it through the webos-internals feed? Dec 19 04:37:55 ofcourse Dec 19 04:38:13 rwhitby: you own webos-internals on gitorious.org? Dec 19 04:38:22 adamrmcd: yep Dec 19 04:38:36 Neat ;) Dec 19 04:38:39 adamrmcd: but dBsooner runs it Dec 19 04:39:23 Well, I cloned a copy of modifications.git, so I'll start playing in there... what type of approval process is there for submitting upstream (to you)? Dec 19 04:39:52 adamrmcd: http://www.dbsooner.com/webospatchupload.php, then we give you commit access to maintain it. Dec 19 04:41:21 rwhitby: you don't happen to be Rod Whitby? :O Dec 19 04:41:33 adamrmcd: I am Dec 19 04:41:42 I was listening to your PalmCast 68.5 today on the road :D Dec 19 04:41:55 did it put you to sleep? Dec 19 04:42:00 No, it was fascinating :) Dec 19 04:42:20 I used to do a lot of development on the Plucker project in OS 3..5; but I havn't touched Palmdev since then. Dec 19 04:42:42 cool. what other open source background do you have? Dec 19 04:42:46 I randomly selected that podcast as something to listen to on my drive ;) Dec 19 04:42:48 So I've creates a small patch that I would like to apply. How do I actually do that since the root fs is ro? Dec 19 04:43:26 I run http://array.org/ubuntu ... created a customized kernel for netbook PCs, and am working on a OSS netbook project very similar to Web OS Dec 19 04:43:28 mcolyer: which wiki instructions are you following? Dec 19 04:43:53 rwhitby: none, I created the patch myself Dec 19 04:44:23 adamrmcd: awesome, what's your gitorious.org username? Dec 19 04:44:25 rwhitby: some Linux kernel contributions, etc etc. Dec 19 04:44:33 adamrmcd ;) Dec 19 04:46:04 adamrmcd: you have commit on gitorious now. The form is still best for giving dBsooner all the other meta-data for the patch package in preware Dec 19 04:46:23 rwhitby: Its awesome that you've done all this WebOs work without ever actually owning a Pre (as of that podcast recording) Dec 19 04:46:51 rwhitby: is there a wiki page which describes how to properly format/apply your own patch? Dec 19 04:47:07 adamrmcd: you're not following @webosinternals ... Dec 19 04:47:28 on twitter? .. not yet ;) Dec 19 04:47:28 adamrmcd: had a CDMA one now for a while, and finally got my GSM one last week. Dec 19 04:48:28 rwhitby: I tried for the longest time to avoid the CDMA model available in Canada; tried to procure a GSM from Germany, but, bit the bullet a few days ago. Dec 19 04:48:57 mcolyer: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Applying_Patches#Information_for_developing_patches Dec 19 04:49:21 adamrmcd: I've switched from the Treo 650 to a German Pre with a remapped keyboard. Dec 19 04:49:53 adamrmcd: when you're ready with the service we'll get you access to git.webos-internals.org too Dec 19 04:50:39 rwhitby: I do need to run, but it's great to meet you :) .. I hope to submit the first half of my idea as a patch by this weekend, and hopefully get the actual accelerometer program done before CES next month. Dec 19 04:50:56 adamrmcd: excellent. welcome aboard. Dec 19 04:50:58 rwhiby: Much obliged ;) Dec 19 04:51:03 ttyl Dec 19 04:51:15 rwhitby: thanks thats part of what I was looking for. How do I get the root fs to be rw? Dec 19 04:52:23 mcolyer: look above on that page Dec 19 04:54:57 rwhitby: thanks, now I got it. Dec 19 13:19:20 morning Dec 19 13:22:27 Anyone want to test the new Web Server available in Preware? Dec 19 14:01:14 ...cant get my preware to update Dec 19 14:03:53 DarkSpecter: there was an error in a PreCentral ipkg. I've fixed the feed now, try again. Dec 19 14:10:06 how's AUPT coming? Dec 19 14:10:30 zsoc: it's in the testing feed, signed and all Dec 19 14:10:52 funny, its still hanging at checking package manager version Dec 19 14:11:05 i'll reboot again Dec 19 14:11:31 rwhitby: I have x23 of ipkg mgr and x13 for preware. I suppose AUPT is a separate app/install or option somewhere? Dec 19 14:11:58 zsoc: you'll need .26 for ipkgservice for the signed stuff Dec 19 14:13:05 ah ok. Dec 19 14:13:35 then you use the testing patch feed rather than the normal one Dec 19 14:13:50 simple enough Dec 19 14:14:58 is oil maintaining luna manager still? it would be cool if we had a way to 'reset' custom C services (like a stop/start). Dec 19 14:16:37 zsoc: I was just thinking about an upstart manager app about half an hour ago, for the new Lighty Web Server optware utility in Preware Dec 19 14:17:48 yes yes I was looking at that. would be very nifty. Dec 19 14:18:57 rwhitby: is it safe to install bootstrap via preware when there already is a manual bootstrap Dec 19 14:19:22 DarkSpecter: it's designed to be, but there could be bugs Dec 19 14:19:41 well, then consider me a betatester Dec 19 14:20:06 DarkSpecter: go for it Dec 19 14:22:12 lighttpd works Dec 19 14:22:26 of i go to make it secure :P Dec 19 14:23:28 DarkSpecter: I've tested it with ssl client certs Dec 19 14:24:34 DarkSpecter: I'll probably add another package which enables ssl client certs by default, with https pointing to / - then all you need to do is drop in your ca.crt and server.pem and you've got full access to the device Dec 19 14:27:11 as long as you dont make / availabe via DAV that way ;) Dec 19 14:28:27 rwhitby: what port is used by default? Dec 19 14:34:44 my pre hates me Dec 19 14:35:42 zsoc: 80 Dec 19 14:36:05 DarkSpecter: why not make / available via ssl client cert protected DAV ? Dec 19 14:37:26 rwhitby: having root writable to just anyone is usualy not realy a briliant idea ;) Dec 19 14:38:35 rwhitby: ah, so its more of a wifi thing :) do aussie mobile companies block 80 as well? all US ones do Dec 19 14:39:22 a terminal is one thing, its scary enough for kids that usualy only know windows and icons to not mess around with it to much, but having the entire innards of your pre available in your fav. browser ... danger will robinson Dec 19 14:39:55 DarkSpecter: it's not writeable to anyone if it's ssl client cert protected Dec 19 14:40:30 if someone is smart enough to create their own ssl client certs, then they're smart enough to have access to root :-) Dec 19 14:40:39 not anyone, but there are anough dangerous owners out there too ;) Dec 19 14:41:43 every kid can generate a self signed cert, all they need to do is to google for a howto, and after that all there is to it is not to mess up the order in which to coppy and paste the commands Dec 19 14:42:03 DarkSpecter: in my experience, rwhitby is generally _over_ security consceous, so I generally agree with him on stuff like this ;) Dec 19 14:42:46 DarkSpecter: I'm talking about *client* certs, not *server* certs. Dec 19 14:43:18 zsoc: i guess i'm a bit paranoid ;) Dec 19 14:43:29 anyone can create a self-signed server cert, but it's not so easy to create your own CA and generate SSL client certs from it Dec 19 14:45:00 http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/securitymonkey/howto-securing-a-website-with-client-ssl-certificates-11500 Dec 19 14:45:07 first hit on google ;) Dec 19 14:45:45 yep, I contend that anyone who can follow that post is qualified to access root over DAV Dec 19 14:46:33 zsoc: my paranois is probably from back when i was a gentoo dev, it's unbeliveable how much stupidity is possible just because someone "can" Dec 19 14:47:03 10% of people will be able to get a command line. 10% of those can get openssl running. 10% of those can create the CA. 10% of those can install the client cert in their browser. Dec 19 14:47:42 i just hope you are right *g Dec 19 14:47:42 DarkSpecter: but over 50% of the people who get through all that will be below average intelligence for that group Dec 19 14:48:31 DarkSpecter: don't worry, a Preware package would never enable DAV on / out of the box. But it would allow for such by easy editing of a config file. Dec 19 14:49:40 heh. as long as it's not a service where all it takes is a simple swipe on the right switch to get r/w / access i guess you are right Dec 19 14:57:21 rwhitby: from what you just described, there are 200 people in the world that could install a client cert in their browser lol Dec 19 14:58:10 are you one of them ? :P Dec 19 15:01:13 heh - just served the preware.org site off my Pre :-) Dec 19 15:01:17 DarkSpecter: I imagine 50 of them are in the channel :) Dec 19 15:02:29 HOLY SCHIT Dec 19 15:02:34 rwhitby IS AWAKE? Dec 19 15:03:24 rwhitby: did AU finally join the us in the idea that 0900 is time to get up? Dec 19 15:03:53 no he's actualy sleeping beside his keyboard, what you see here is his typing reflex :P Dec 19 15:04:02 that's damn impressive. Dec 19 15:04:16 especially the quality in that emoticon Dec 19 15:07:55 New in Preware from WebOS Internals: A Web Server on your Pre: http://bit.ly/preware-lighttpd Dec 19 15:08:12 ....ok i've had enough, dropbear is dying now Dec 19 15:16:40 rwhitby: not to be a broken record, but people are going to try to use that over evdo in the US, port 80 won't work Dec 19 15:17:11 zsoc: it's not enabled over evdo out of the box anyway - wifi only Dec 19 15:17:59 rwhitby: ah ok. so you can serve, but only when your device is chillin at home on your touchstone ;) Dec 19 15:19:04 zsoc: you can edit the port in lighttpd.conf, and the iptables in the upstart script. Dec 19 15:19:29 * rwhitby bbt - night all Dec 19 15:21:10 I had my Pre serving over evdo on port 8000 with cron job for dns updates... I couldn't figure out the convinence of it. I guess it was cool and all. Dec 19 16:07:50 hi! can I access to a console with root login in the emulator? Dec 19 16:11:44 man, i wonder if anyone's working on a good reference card for webos development... i'm absorbing this stuff slowly but it takes forever. Dec 19 16:25:00 dsevil: the answer is yes, but that's probably #webos teritory Dec 19 16:37:31 fair enough... i keep forgetting that there's sanctioned development :) Dec 19 16:38:49 (you mean there's people who don't write hacky patches? pshaw!) Dec 19 17:52:44 I just made this ----> http://webonastick.com/webos/patches/hide-app-vendors-1.3.1.patch Dec 19 17:55:07 screenshots: http://webonastick.com/webos/images/hide-app-vendors/ Dec 19 18:03:56 dsevil, nice :-) Dec 19 18:05:35 hey is there a packet sniffer avail for web os? Dec 19 18:06:05 you want to sniff all your data ? Dec 19 18:06:42 mhmm well data over a wifi network Dec 19 18:08:09 just posted a thread: http://tinyurl.com/hideappvendors Dec 19 18:08:09 you could potentially intercept the packets, sure .. but no app for it yet Dec 19 18:08:15 (goes to precentral forums) Dec 19 18:08:18 anything available? Dec 19 18:08:22 jacques: thanks! Dec 19 18:08:50 ah I c so I'd have to write my own Dec 19 18:09:07 any idea how complex? I know c pretty well Dec 19 18:10:37 not complex most likely - there are C services for reference .. Dec 19 18:10:52 and you would just use pcap or something, right ? Dec 19 18:11:10 or a wrapper for tcpdump ? Dec 19 18:11:25 dBsooner: if you're here I just submitted it to you via the form. Dec 19 18:11:52 dsevil: cool.. I'll get to it sometime today. I have some more stuff to do with the kids real quick. Dec 19 18:12:11 not to familar with those terms I only really know the standard c libary Dec 19 18:12:29 pointers structs ect ect never too it much further Dec 19 18:12:56 nfoadikt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pcap Dec 19 18:12:59 took* Dec 19 18:13:29 if you're ambitious, it would probably take an afternoon Dec 19 18:14:04 thanks Dec 19 18:15:22 dBsooner: thanks! Dec 19 18:15:59 what exactly is a wrapper? Dec 19 18:24:47 bpadalin1|work: you overestimate peoples ambitiousness ;) Dec 19 18:26:32 think it'd be harder zsoc ? Dec 19 18:27:34 :) Dec 19 18:33:46 nfoadikt: just saying, being familiar with C and being familiar with linux utilities / webos stack are very different Dec 19 18:33:55 but, prove me wrong :D Dec 19 18:34:06 yeah I might try one day Dec 19 19:48:44 mytether removes webosinternals service? that sounds important. will that break any other apps? Dec 19 20:42:54 did you guys know the pre's touchscreen is capable of at least 10 points of contact following ? Dec 19 20:50:06 I did not Dec 19 20:50:34 although I would imagine on a screen so tiny anything more then 3 or 4 would be fairly pointless Dec 19 20:51:51 it was difficult enough to watch the dots go around and count the different colored circles Dec 19 20:51:53 10 finger pong Dec 19 20:52:25 though a 2-finger or 3-finger flick/gesture similar to the ones on apple's trackpad might be interesting Dec 19 21:33:23 is it possible to write c/c++ applications on pre with libstdc++ package thats on preware? Dec 19 21:35:35 they won't be card apps unless you adhere to the NPAPI plugin and write some wrapper for it .. but native apps are all good for the little linux box Dec 19 21:48:24 after having more time to think about that video of the palm pre theme for the iphone..ive began to hate the maker even more. Dec 19 21:55:41 why? Dec 19 21:56:00 it just bothers me Dec 19 21:56:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snXCC9mTvI4 Dec 19 21:56:04 AH. Dec 19 21:56:55 whats that quote? Dec 19 21:57:08 imitation is the highest form of flattery? Dec 19 21:58:07 dsevil: thanks for making that patch configurable - was it the emergence of dijit which swung the balance? Dec 19 22:01:12 i would be shocked if nobody ever copies the card model Dec 19 22:01:20 its a very good idea for mobile phones Dec 19 22:02:01 oil: loaded Lighty yet? Dec 19 22:02:09 lighty? Dec 19 22:04:33 http://bit.ly/preware-lighttpd Dec 19 22:05:22 lol Dec 19 22:05:30 i have no need for a webserver on my pre Dec 19 22:05:31 haha Dec 19 22:06:16 ah, that's where you might be wrong. The current page talks about external access. Where I'm going with this is http://localhost/ .... Dec 19 22:23:10 Lots of stuff becomes possible with a built-in web server accessed through the built-in browser ... Dec 19 22:24:23 rwhitby, the gcc in pre-optware, is it usable? Dec 19 22:24:42 jacques: what's what I've been waiting for you to arrive to determine ;-) Dec 19 22:25:01 (and replace if it's not) Dec 19 22:25:31 we know that Palm uses cs07q3armel, and we're using cs08q1armel in optware Dec 19 22:25:34 heh, well I'm mostly interested in a cross-toolchain, but if we figure out how to get external storage on the pre through the USB port... Dec 19 22:25:52 assuming the USB can be a host, at least do OTG Dec 19 22:26:27 i dont understand the difference between webservice serving up the media partition to the web browser Dec 19 22:26:29 and normal mojo apps Dec 19 22:26:43 oil: webservice is running as root Dec 19 22:26:49 which are basically html pages Dec 19 22:26:55 being served to luna Dec 19 22:27:02 Think 'webmin' Dec 19 22:27:19 back later. Dec 19 22:27:21 why not have an app that does it Dec 19 22:27:25 and a service to drive it? Dec 19 22:27:31 considering the service runs as root Dec 19 22:27:41 oil: cause that would be work, and it's already done this way Dec 19 22:28:06 but you could have an app access an ajax server ... Dec 19 22:29:09 ajax server? Dec 19 22:29:38 those words together make no sense Dec 19 22:29:50 think a local version of google maps - I don't know what the correct term is. Dec 19 22:30:07 but then you need a database running Dec 19 22:30:19 something like mysql Dec 19 22:30:20 and php Dec 19 22:30:22 mysql works fine on the Pre Dec 19 22:30:27 as does php-fcgi Dec 19 22:30:28 and now you're running a bunch of extra crap on the pre Dec 19 22:30:36 yep Dec 19 22:30:38 sounds like a good way to kill your battery Dec 19 22:30:46 having mysql and a web serverrunning all the time Dec 19 22:31:02 they don't do anything unless their serving requests - no impact on battery Dec 19 22:31:14 only impact is mem Dec 19 22:31:24 which is not exactly something we have a bunch of Dec 19 22:31:32 (which is a scarce resource) Dec 19 22:31:59 it just seems like running a web server and doing all that stuff is the least elegant way to do anything on the pre Dec 19 22:32:10 like back when that was the only way to get a terminal window right on the pre Dec 19 22:32:19 run web server, install that web terminal program Dec 19 22:32:23 access it through browser Dec 19 22:32:33 look at how much nicer termina;+termplugin is Dec 19 22:32:57 Interestingly, the wIRCd takes more mem than lighttpd on my Pre ... Dec 19 22:33:04 lol Dec 19 22:33:05 oil: no argument Dec 19 22:33:25 if there's a Pre service and app for it, it will always be better. Dec 19 22:33:54 if i see an app in preware that requires me to install a webserver+mysql+php to be useful Dec 19 22:33:55 If there's a linux web server for it, you can have it today, at a cost of memory. Dec 19 22:33:57 i won't be installing it Dec 19 22:34:25 excellent, cause that will give you an incentive to replace it by a real implementation ;-) Dec 19 22:34:33 lol Dec 19 22:34:34 no it wont Dec 19 22:34:44 thats supposed to tell the developer to stop being lazy and make it right the first time Dec 19 22:34:57 hah, you say that now, but I know you won't be able to resist the challenge ... Dec 19 22:35:03 no, i will Dec 19 22:35:06 its easy Dec 19 22:35:21 :-) Dec 19 22:35:48 * oil goes to get food, brb Dec 19 23:05:21 htop is a handy ipkg-opt package to see mem usage and cpu usage of various processes. Dec 19 23:08:58 not funny, why can i only use ssh over wifi while a page in the browser is loading O.o Dec 19 23:09:39 We thought it'd be funny? Dec 19 23:24:06 * rwhitby bbl Dec 19 23:44:18 so I held a Nexus One lsat night Dec 19 23:44:28 1GHz proc, snappy Dec 19 23:44:49 Robi_, the OS isn't as slick as WebOS tho, is it? :) Dec 19 23:47:44 nope it's a somewhat improved android, but it's still android Dec 19 23:48:01 the hw was nice tho, felt solid Dec 19 23:48:19 could prolly hack it to run webOS Dec 20 00:01:50 you can hack other platforms to run WebOS? Dec 20 00:14:11 rwhitby: not really. I don't have too much of a problem with dijit; their apps are spread out and not so many. it was really just an example. Dec 20 00:15:04 * oil agrees with trekkers post that they should actually go away instead of just dim Dec 20 00:16:44 EdLin: I think you'd have to hack WebOS to run on another platform :p Dec 20 00:16:59 But I'm pretty sure that's next to impossible without the source code. Dec 20 00:17:01 oil: is that what all the [Moderator Deletion] is about? Dec 20 00:17:33 I guess unless the hardware is compatible. Dec 20 00:18:41 oh, i read it before that happened haha Dec 20 00:19:05 It'd be best if palm just looked at the fact that every review for Brighthouse Labs app is negative and punted them. Dec 20 00:19:10 yeah, i didn't get to see the brouhaha. Dec 20 00:19:20 its going to cost them a bunch Dec 20 00:19:21 What happened? Dec 20 00:19:56 so much per app per year Dec 20 00:20:04 hope they make that up with purchases Dec 20 00:20:19 sdodson: yeah that's my initial response but read chuq's (WebOsDev) posts in palm's forums. he made some excellent points, he really doesn't want to go down the censorship road. Dec 20 00:24:54 wtf is Brighthouse Labs app? Dec 20 00:25:36 a company Dec 20 00:25:41 Brighthouse Labs is an app vendor. They have 1/6 of the apps on the App Catalog. Dec 20 00:25:41 oh Dec 20 00:25:47 lol Dec 20 00:25:51 they're all practically the same Dec 20 00:27:13 What were the [Moderator deletion]s right at the end of those two posts? Dec 20 00:28:37 i dont completely remember Dec 20 00:29:00 trekker came in and was like "i wish this would delete them instead of just make them dark" Dec 20 00:29:15 and the other guy was like "omgwtf be greatful, don't just waltz in here and be angry" Dec 20 00:29:26 and the other guy was like "i've been here longer then you, blah, blah, blah" Dec 20 00:30:41 rwhitby-pre: to answer your question, I wasn't specifically motivated by dijit; it was just an example. Dijit's apps are far fewer and spread out, not all chunked together like Brighthouse's. Dec 20 00:32:05 oil: I guess you're paraphrasing... he must have come across as particularly nasty. Dec 20 00:32:40 oil: but what is all thise talk/commotion about? Dec 20 00:36:48 idk why it was deleted Dec 20 00:37:05 it didn't seem that particularly nasty for a forum to me Dec 20 00:37:35 someone must have been a tad oversensitive. Dec 20 00:45:22 on the internet? Dec 20 00:45:26 no, that can't be true Dec 20 00:45:27 :) Dec 20 00:53:23 wow.. Dec 20 00:53:26 just for the iphone Dec 20 00:53:27 Brighthouse Labs specializes in the following types of applications. Dec 20 00:53:28 Books (372) • Business (5) • Education (18) • Entertainment (837) • Finance (1) • Games (56) • Healthcare & Fitness (2) • Lifestyle (10) • Music (6) • Navigation (475) • News (521) • Photography (1) • Reference (16) • Social Networking (10) • Sports (1127) • Travel (230) • Utilities (17) Dec 20 00:53:52 1127 sports apps? Dec 20 00:53:52 wow Dec 20 00:55:05 "We develop mobile applications for devices including the iPhone, iTouch, Palm Pixi and the Palm Pre. Committed to developing useful and fun apps that appeal to both niche and local markets, we're certain we have an app that you'll enjoy." Dec 20 00:55:10 I don't know. Dec 20 00:55:22 They make shitty apps, but it's not illegal to make a shitty TV and sell it. Dec 20 01:00:52 There's a patch for that ... Dec 20 01:02:20 the difference is apples business model vs palms Dec 20 01:02:29 apple doesn't charge you per-app you want to sell Dec 20 01:04:10 palms model discourages selling hundreds of crappy apps versus a few good ones Dec 20 01:04:55 like an app for every single hockey team, versus a hockey app that has every team in it Dec 20 01:11:01 I don't know. Dec 20 01:11:14 I tend to lean towards what Chuq said in a thread I was reading. Dec 20 01:11:18 About the whole wallpaper thing. Dec 20 01:11:39 A 0.99 cent app for one team will sell better than a 4.99 app with all of them. Dec 20 01:11:54 It's not the amount of apps that bother me. Dec 20 01:11:59 It's having to scroll through them all. Dec 20 01:15:08 ird: have a link to the thread? Dec 20 01:15:40 hmm.. Dec 20 01:15:44 hang on maybe. Dec 20 01:17:23 http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?p=14372 Dec 20 01:17:36 Page 2 Dec 20 01:19:51 sdodson: Dec 20 01:27:24 ird: thanks Dec 20 01:27:54 np **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 20 02:59:56 2009