**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 22 02:59:56 2009
Dec 22 03:33:11 * rwhitby looks at getting openwrt to cross-compile for the Pre ...
Dec 22 03:34:47 <oc80z> speaking of networking,
Dec 22 03:35:24 <oc80z> i'd like to see an snmp app
Dec 22 03:36:25 <oc80z> we could write a tunnel app, for /etc/network/if-up
Dec 22 03:37:02 <oc80z> lulz
Dec 22 03:37:49 <oc80z> yo rw, whats good? i just ran the optware-bootstrap :D
Dec 22 03:39:00 <rwhitby> that's obsolete now - just install it from Preware
Dec 22 03:40:04 <oil> lol
Dec 22 03:50:13 <oc80z> yeah, its not.
Dec 22 03:50:41 <oc80z> heh.
Dec 22 03:53:43 <oc80z> what obsolete one exists?
Dec 22 04:29:59 <branded> are there any patches that negatively affect app catalog program installs?
Dec 22 04:30:33 <branded> i'm attempting to install radiotime, but it continuously claims that i don't have enough space, even though i deleted several apps
Dec 22 04:30:35 <branded> any ideas?
Dec 22 04:34:11 <ird> radio time sucks anyways :p
Dec 22 04:38:03 <rick_home> ird - go wash your mouth with soap.  Doc Lee did a great job on that
Dec 22 04:38:26 <ird> I was kidding :)
Dec 22 05:04:43 <dBsooner> rwhitby: I need org.webosinternal.crt
Dec 22 05:30:50 <rwhitby> dBsooner: comment out SIGNER from common.mk
Dec 22 05:40:54 <jacques_pre> does devmode do something other than put the usb port in peripheral_b mode?
Dec 22 05:41:13 <rick_home> jacques_pre  not that I know of.
Dec 22 05:41:19 <rick_home> oh wait yes.
Dec 22 05:41:41 <rick_home> or perhaps no.  I thought it opened a port, but I could be wrong
Dec 22 05:42:31 <jacques_pre> thanks rick_home
Dec 22 05:43:59 <rick_home> thanks for nothing.  :-)
Dec 22 05:44:08 <rick_home> I --told-- you I'm and end-user guy.
Dec 22 05:44:12 <rick_home> OS's make me sweat
Dec 22 05:44:21 <jacques_pre> I just installed wIRC. it's nice.
Dec 22 05:45:21 <jacques_pre> I'm still getting used to the space bar on the pre.
Dec 22 05:46:27 <oil> wirc is win
Dec 22 05:47:41 * jacques_pre can't find the tab key
Dec 22 05:47:56 <rick_home> orange i
Dec 22 05:48:02 <rick_home> ctrl-i  = tab
Dec 22 05:48:13 <rick_home> or perhaps it's sym-i
Dec 22 05:48:15 <rick_home> i forget
Dec 22 05:49:07 <jacques_pre> rick_home: it seems to be just orange
Dec 22 05:49:26 <rick_home> kk
Dec 22 05:50:12 <rick_home> jacques_pre  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:wirc
Dec 22 05:50:19 <rick_home> :-)
Dec 22 05:51:21 <jacques_pre> heh, good point. someone went to the trouble to write docs; I should read them.
Dec 22 05:51:35 <oil> srsly
Dec 22 05:53:53 <oil> though i do think gesture+orange should be replaced with orange+.
Dec 22 05:53:57 <oil> for tab complete
Dec 22 05:54:08 <oil> then you dont have to move a finger up to the gesture area when typing
Dec 22 05:54:34 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: so what's your thoughts on a toolchain for building C services?
Dec 22 05:56:19 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: I would probably start with the gumstix overo (omap3) branch of OE
Dec 22 05:57:01 <jacques_pre> I built most of it a few days ago
Dec 22 05:57:47 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: got a URL for that?
Dec 22 05:57:59 <rwhitby> (perhaps not on your wirc :-)
Dec 22 05:57:59 <jacques_pre> maybe tweak the versions of some components; glibc and kernel headers
Dec 22 05:58:48 <jacques_pre> the overo branch uses more recent components than what are on the pre
Dec 22 05:59:28 <rwhitby> glibc 2.5 seems to be a sticking point with all the things in OE I've tried
Dec 22 06:00:17 <rwhitby> I'd be happiest just using the same codesourcery toolchain that Palm uses ...
Dec 22 06:00:26 <jacques_pre> I also need to use a cross-objdump and see what options the pre binaries are built with; things like ABI and floating point
Dec 22 06:00:44 <rwhitby> maybe work out how to get OE to use that ..
Dec 22 06:00:59 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: did you notice that binutils is installed on the Pre?
Dec 22 06:01:17 <jacques_pre> well glibc 2.5 is in OE
Dec 22 06:01:40 <jacques_pre> yep, I saw that
Dec 22 06:02:24 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: ah, I thought you didn't want to use the CS toolchain
Dec 22 06:02:57 <jacques_pre> you said something about a xchain we could autobuild
Dec 22 06:03:03 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: glibc 2.5 in OE didn't build for ,e
Dec 22 06:03:29 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: I guess I mean what build environment can we use with the CS toolchain
Dec 22 06:03:43 <jacques_pre> in theory we could build the CS xchain if we wanted
Dec 22 06:04:08 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: the only thing I've been able to get any success with is optware
Dec 22 06:04:15 <rwhitby> ~praise eno
Dec 22 06:04:26 <infobot> All hail eno!
Dec 22 06:04:53 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: so at the moment, I'm building libraries in optware, packaging them for /opt, then unpacking them into a staging area to build stuff for preware
Dec 22 06:05:10 <jacques_pre> the old glibc is an issue because it has some bugs (more bugs?) with cross-building
Dec 22 06:05:41 <jacques_pre> and one can run into issues if the host build env is too new
Dec 22 06:05:59 <Tiny> Does we need xp cd to run the Virtaul box in mac machine....
Dec 22 06:07:35 <rwhitby> no
Dec 22 06:08:07 <rwhitby> Tiny: which instructions are you following?  URL please ...
Dec 22 06:08:14 <jacques_pre> as an aside, can I control the auto-brightness feature on the pre?
Dec 22 06:08:24 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: I haven't seen how yet
Dec 22 06:09:09 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: ok
Dec 22 06:10:19 <Tiny> rwhitby: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_ajaxregister&view=register&sdkdownload
Dec 22 06:10:34 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: so for C services we need a xchain with a different directory structure than optware?
Dec 22 06:10:58 <Tiny> http://developer.palm.com/sdkRegister.php?prs_first_name=Karunakar&prs_last_name=Revuri&email=revurikarna%40gmail.com&news_updates=1&h=cd0a8a464a60ccc634dd0d5e1592f78d
Dec 22 06:11:10 <Tiny> Any help?
Dec 22 06:11:22 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: http://trac.nslu2-linux.org/optware/browser/trunk/make/lunaservice.mk and http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=toolchain/lunaservice/Makefile;h=be363c7b237a58fe73348b6fc7f55bf8a23dcdba;hb=HEAD
Dec 22 06:11:58 <jacques_pre> will it need lots of libs? not sure what sorts of deps the C services will require.
Dec 22 06:12:23 <dBsooner> rwhitby: pushed a ton of changes to webos-patches.
Dec 22 06:12:27 <rwhitby> Tiny: that's a page with 3 download links on it, not a set of instructions
Dec 22 06:12:35 <rwhitby> dBsooner: fixing the cert thing now
Dec 22 06:12:37 <dBsooner> build.git Makefile's updated for both versions.
Dec 22 06:12:45 <jacques_pre> heh, I wish I could throw those links to my PC
Dec 22 06:12:50 <Tiny> Can u send the link pls
Dec 22 06:12:54 <Tiny> So i can follow
Dec 22 06:12:57 <Tiny> I am very new
Dec 22 06:13:04 <Tiny> yesterday i ahve started
Dec 22 06:15:14 <jacques_pre> I think I need advanced gestures to switch between wirc and browser quickly
Dec 22 06:18:15 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: yeah, advanced gestures ftw
Dec 22 06:19:54 <oil> yeah, especially for wirc
Dec 22 06:20:10 <jacques_pre> I wonder how many web pages I can have open before things get painful
Dec 22 06:21:11 <jacques_pre> lunasysmgr up to 113mB resident
Dec 22 06:21:50 <jacques_pre> 47.3% physical RAM
Dec 22 06:22:49 <jacques_pre> heh I think I would prefer a ring instead of a chain of cards
Dec 22 06:23:00 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: there's a patch for that
Dec 22 06:23:10 * oil thinks jacques_pre should get right on that :)
Dec 22 06:23:21 <rwhitby> oh, maybe not - that patch is for launcher windows being a ring
Dec 22 06:23:33 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: really? ah
Dec 22 06:24:22 <jacques_pre> well with more than 3-4 launcher windows it would be same problem
Dec 22 06:25:13 <jacques_pre> I think my first app should be a USB mode switcher
Dec 22 06:25:41 <jacques_pre> so I can go into host mode
Dec 22 06:27:06 <jacques_pre> and hook to a powered hub
Dec 22 06:27:35 <jacques_pre> hey, are the LEDs RGB?
Dec 22 06:28:00 <jacques_pre> and do we have access to the colors?
Dec 22 06:29:03 * jacques_pre wants his LEDs to be greenish
Dec 22 06:31:06 * oil thinks a small screwdriver and a soldering iron would fix it right up
Dec 22 06:32:39 <jacques_pre> hmm, I see no color controls in /sys/class/leds
Dec 22 06:42:50 <dBsooner> rwhitby: tweeted
Dec 22 06:50:05 <amrcc> What u guys kickin on 2nite?
Dec 22 06:52:28 * jacques_pre is learning to use wIRC.
Dec 22 06:56:22 <oil> whats there to learn?
Dec 22 06:59:56 <jacques_pre> what options to set for one
Dec 22 07:00:03 <oil> oh
Dec 22 07:00:08 <oil> yeah, there is a bunch of options
Dec 22 07:00:14 <amrcc> oil: dbsooner: you guys still gettin reports of "...cards open"?
Dec 22 07:00:30 <dBsooner> eh?
Dec 22 07:00:33 <oil> mostly from being unable to agree on how something should be
Dec 22 07:00:39 <oil> so we made whatever the argument was about an option
Dec 22 07:01:30 <jacques_pre> does the server msg setting require a irc re-connect to take effect? I changed part join msg to just nick but am still getting full line.
Dec 22 07:02:00 <amrcc> are ppl still reporting "too many cards open" message and random reboots since 1.3.1
Dec 22 07:02:54 <jacques_pre> oops maybe I misread that option
Dec 22 07:02:54 <oil> jacques_pre: i dont think there is such an option...
Dec 22 07:02:59 <oil> yeah,
Dec 22 07:03:02 <oil> thats for highlighting
Dec 22 07:03:14 <oil> to highlight your nick, or the while line, or whatever
Dec 22 07:03:15 <jacques_pre> oil: I think you are right
Dec 22 07:03:18 <oil> when i say jacques_pre
Dec 22 07:03:44 <jacques_pre> ah yah I see the effect now
Dec 22 07:04:29 <oil> more options like the one you speak of are certainly on the drawing board
Dec 22 07:04:41 <oil> now that i've added different pages to the prefs scene
Dec 22 07:05:17 <jacques_pre> great!
Dec 22 07:06:12 <jacques_pre> is there a way to authenticate to the server with wIRC?
Dec 22 07:07:44 <oil> with freenode?
Dec 22 07:08:01 <jacques_pre> yep
Dec 22 07:08:32 <oil> with freenode, you can put your password into the password thing and itl auto-authenticate you
Dec 22 07:09:34 <oil> or you can always add the /msg nickserv stuff to the perform on connect list
Dec 22 07:09:48 <oil> but msgs and queries are still not seperated
Dec 22 07:10:13 <jacques_pre> thanks
Dec 22 07:17:30 <joshua> Theres no nice way to enter an IP address using the widgets on ares
Dec 22 07:17:53 <joshua> I just want four seperate number boxes next to eachother
Dec 22 07:18:18 <joshua> the drop down widget adds text next to it and is one per line, it looks dumb
Dec 22 07:18:49 <oil> ares isn't exactly the most powerful tool for creating a gui
Dec 22 07:18:56 <oil> you can do much much more with html and css
Dec 22 07:19:02 <joshua> its pretty nice, but it seems like its missing stuff
Dec 22 07:19:09 <oil> and it IS beta
Dec 22 07:19:24 <oil> but wysiwyg tools can only go so far
Dec 22 07:20:07 <joshua> you still have to write some kind of code anyway if you want an app to do anything but have useless buttons. heh
Dec 22 07:20:16 <oil> obviously
Dec 22 07:20:38 <joshua> its nice that it saves your work and you can just log in anywhere
Dec 22 07:20:44 <oil> yeah
Dec 22 07:22:12 <rwhitby> oil: have you heard of zenity ?
Dec 22 07:22:56 <oil> no
Dec 22 07:23:06 <oil> oh
Dec 22 07:23:07 <oil> yeah
Dec 22 07:23:13 <oil> you were talking about it before and i googled it
Dec 22 07:23:31 <oil> obviously you're going to want some sort of gui for it? :)
Dec 22 07:23:42 <rwhitby> yep :-)
Dec 22 07:24:18 <Jmachol> Hello everyone!
Dec 22 07:24:49 <rwhitby> my idea is that postinsts can use the zenity command line syntax to ask the user stuff, and the gui gets that pretty much as-is and then displays the right widget and gets the answer and sends it back just like we do the confirmation for ipkgservice, which then gives it back to the script as stdout.
Dec 22 07:25:46 <rwhitby> oil: the stuff on http://library.gnome.org/users/zenity/stable/zenity-introduction.html.en maps pretty well to webos widgets ...
Dec 22 07:26:40 <rwhitby> oil: so the zenity linux command line tool would be something that can do an app launch with arguments, and then get back a message from the app via dbus service calls - so it's basically a C service with a command line front-end on it
Dec 22 07:27:23 <rwhitby> oil: so then the webos quick install 'tweaks' stuff can be done in patches with postinsts that use zenity
Dec 22 07:27:40 <rwhitby> in a nice secure way
Dec 22 07:27:44 <jacques_pre> is the interface that Palm uses to communicate between services and the GUI a standard?
Dec 22 07:27:52 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: dbus
Dec 22 07:28:10 <jacques_pre> sweet
Dec 22 07:28:16 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: run "dbus-util --capture" on your Pre, and watch the flow
Dec 22 07:28:51 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: we have the headers for lunaservice, and PuffTheMagic has worked out how to talk to it from C programs
Dec 22 07:28:51 <oil> rwhitby: were you thinking "confirmation" type scene, or a card?
Dec 22 07:29:04 <jacques_pre> wow, nice
Dec 22 07:29:09 <rwhitby> oil: dunno, was looking to you for that
Dec 22 07:29:13 <rwhitby> decision
Dec 22 07:29:33 <oil> well, i've only played with the confirmation stuff a tiny bit
Dec 22 07:29:48 <oil> enough for the confirmation dialogs
Dec 22 07:29:51 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: I'm currently working on getting a "hello-world" C service to be built by the autobuilder
Dec 22 07:30:08 <oil> but i know it doesn't support some widgets and other stuff
Dec 22 07:30:14 <oil> like when i tried to get a scroller to work
Dec 22 07:30:19 <oil> but that could have been entirely my fault
Dec 22 07:30:28 <rwhitby> (hence my getting mjson, glib, and lunaservice stuff built by the autobuilder in the last 24 hours)
Dec 22 07:30:43 <rwhitby> oil: so a card then?
Dec 22 07:30:54 <oil> sounds like the best option
Dec 22 07:31:04 <rwhitby> what's the downside of a card?
Dec 22 07:31:16 <oil> idk
Dec 22 07:31:25 <rwhitby> just doesn't look as sexy?
Dec 22 07:31:25 <oil> it takes up the whole screen?
Dec 22 07:31:45 <oil> maybe we could split it up
Dec 22 07:31:54 <oil> errors/warnings/progress/text information
Dec 22 07:31:59 <oil> in confirmation stages
Dec 22 07:32:09 <rwhitby> yeah, I was thinking exactly the same thing
Dec 22 07:32:19 <oil> things like file selector/calendar etc would go in card
Dec 22 07:32:30 <Jmachol> I'm having a problem with thw vi command in putty while trying to set up a dynamic ip for my Pre. I cannot seem to find out how to properly save the file I am creating and exit the vi command. I have tried ZZ and :wq.
Dec 22 07:32:44 <Jmachol> the*
Dec 22 07:32:58 <rwhitby> Jmachol: those are the right commands for vi
Dec 22 07:33:19 <rwhitby> did you hit Esc to get into command mode?
Dec 22 07:33:37 <rwhitby> (and are you reading the basic linux usage wiki page as you go?)
Dec 22 07:33:42 * jacques_pre was just gonna ask that
Dec 22 07:34:46 <jacques_pre> so, is dbus-util part of pulse-audio? because my google search is kinda indicating that.
Dec 22 07:34:59 <Jmachol> No I did not, thank you rwhitby that solved it. And no I'm not. I thought I had hit Esc already and it printed out something. I must have hit the wrong key.
Dec 22 07:35:28 <jacques_pre> I'm running it on my pre and want to try it on my workstation
Dec 22 07:37:12 <rwhitby> root@pre:/usr/lib/ipkg/info# grep dbus-util /usr/lib/ipkg/info/*
Dec 22 07:37:12 <rwhitby> /usr/lib/ipkg/info/dbus-util.control:Package: dbus-util
Dec 22 07:37:33 <jacques_pre> does the pre have a fast javascript engine? what about HTML canvas element support?
Dec 22 07:37:45 <rwhitby> V8 and yes I think.
Dec 22 07:37:46 <oil> javascript is v8 like chrome
Dec 22 07:37:48 <oil> so pretty fast
Dec 22 07:37:56 <amrcc> out of the blue my pre started freakin out a couple weeks ago and oil and dbsooner pointed me at jstop and netstat to see what it was doin...
Dec 22 07:37:56 <oil> canvas support is "ok"
Dec 22 07:38:10 <jacques_pre> wow, better and better
Dec 22 07:39:20 <oil> canvas support is missing quite a bit
Dec 22 07:39:26 <oil> its something i hope they're working on
Dec 22 07:39:42 * jacques_pre was playing with a gameboy emulator written in js today, using canvas
Dec 22 07:39:48 <amrcc> after removin everything I had recently installed (was playin with BU and patchin TS detect) it was still the same....
Dec 22 07:40:18 <jacques_pre> I'm amazed at how far js has come while I was ignoring it.
Dec 22 07:40:25 <Jmachol> Hmm... now it says the ez-ipupdate.conf file doesn't exist after correctly applying the ZZ command from vi.
Dec 22 07:40:47 <amrcc> it was suckin batt in about 1 hr....dog slow and rebootin randomly and throwin too many cards even just tryin to load PW
Dec 22 07:41:44 <jacques_pre> sounds like some process hogging resources
Dec 22 07:41:55 <jacques_pre> CPU and RAM
Dec 22 07:42:41 <jacques_pre> 1hr batt life - wow
Dec 22 07:42:58 <amrcc> after numerous restarts/reboots/unpatchin/repatchin ... package manager finally kacked
Dec 22 07:43:41 <oil> rwhitby: looking over the zenity docs
Dec 22 07:43:51 <oil> obviously some things wont be supported
Dec 22 07:44:01 <oil> like --width and --height
Dec 22 07:44:02 <oil> lol
Dec 22 07:44:04 <amrcc> reloaded package manager with QI and the problem came back
Dec 22 07:44:24 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: gentoo doesn't have a dbus-util package. I'll keep looking :-)
Dec 22 07:44:39 <oil> jacques_pre: run it on the pre
Dec 22 07:44:40 <Jmachol> Have any of you been able to get QXDM working on Windows 7 with the Pre? I can't seem to find any Qualcomm drivers for Windows 7.
Dec 22 07:45:19 <jacques_pre> oil: I am. I want to run it on my workstation too
Dec 22 07:45:31 <oil> via ssh to pre?
Dec 22 07:45:43 <oil> i dont understand what you're going to be capturing on your workstation...
Dec 22 07:45:46 <tmzt> vsp
Dec 22 07:45:52 <tmzt> and ssh port forwarding
Dec 22 07:46:19 <tmzt> I use ddclient now, used to use ez-
Dec 22 07:46:35 <jacques_pre> oil: on the was would be unrelated to the pre
Dec 22 07:46:39 <tmzt> jacques_pre: what is the emulation written in?
Dec 22 07:46:59 <oil> i thought the dbus stuff was palm stuff
Dec 22 07:47:04 <jacques_pre> s/was/ws/
Dec 22 07:47:04 <oil> for javascript to talk to services
Dec 22 07:47:06 <infobot> jacques_pre meant: oil: on the ws would be unrelated to the pre
Dec 22 07:47:24 <oil> im not sure what other uses it would have?
Dec 22 07:47:26 <jacques_pre> dbus is used all over gnome
Dec 22 07:47:56 <jacques_pre> it's a general app intercommunication framework
Dec 22 07:48:01 <oil> ah
Dec 22 07:48:15 <amrcc> After a couple more rounds of removin and reinstallin...Tracked down all the net traffic to my pop box and finally figured out it was the changes they made to pop in 1.3.1.  I had 1600 messages in my pop...
Dec 22 07:48:33 <oil> amrcc: use imap
Dec 22 07:48:43 <jacques_pre> there is an additional layer for inter-machine comm
Dec 22 07:49:20 <amrcc> imap...i do...except for one account I can't....
Dec 22 07:49:23 * jacques_pre forgets - oh yeah, telepathy
Dec 22 07:49:24 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: you can run dbus-util in the emulator ...
Dec 22 07:50:16 <amrcc> I started pullin 10 msgs at a time and when I got it to 1530...Pre started workin normally again.
Dec 22 07:50:30 <rwhitby> woot, just compiled helloworldservice in preware/build.git
Dec 22 07:50:34 <jacques_pre> I was talking to my supervisor last week about some potential uses for dbus in our software
Dec 22 07:50:40 <tmzt> there's even a program to forward dbus over ip
Dec 22 07:50:47 <rwhitby> so theoretically, I should be able to build ipkgmgrsrv now ...
Dec 22 07:52:12 <jacques_pre> tmzt: sorry I missed your question; the gameboy emulation?
Dec 22 07:52:26 <tmzt> yes
Dec 22 07:52:35 <tmzt> is it all js? can't imagine
Dec 22 07:52:49 <jacques_pre> I didn't write it I just found it on canvasdemos.com
Dec 22 07:53:03 <jacques_pre> and yes it's supposedly all js
Dec 22 07:53:13 <rwhitby> 11754.713       PUB     call    2               org.webosinternals.helloworldservice    org.freedesktop.DBus    /org/freedesktop/DBus/RequestName       «string=“org.webosinternals.helloworldservice”, uint32=4»
Dec 22 07:53:29 <jacques_pre> needs chrome to run at 60fps
Dec 22 07:53:56 <rwhitby> oil: was ubermonsrv written in Java or C ?
Dec 22 07:54:04 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: congrats!
Dec 22 07:54:28 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: PuffTheMagic takes the credit - I'm just the packaging and autobuild monkey
Dec 22 07:54:43 <oil> rwhitby: c, im pretty sure
Dec 22 07:54:51 <oil> i think it was the first of the c service tests
Dec 22 07:55:07 <rwhitby> oil: do you have the latest source code for it?
Dec 22 07:55:13 <oil> lol
Dec 22 07:55:13 <oil> no
Dec 22 07:55:20 <amrcc> I added 10 more back in and it started freakin again.   Needless to say...my pop is now kept low...Havn't had to reboot since....
Dec 22 07:55:32 <oil> rwhitby: try to build wirc
Dec 22 07:55:32 <rwhitby> didn't PuffTheMagic say he was going to upload it to git.webos-internals.org for someone to work on?
Dec 22 07:55:33 <oil> thats c
Dec 22 07:55:42 <rwhitby> ah, right wircd
Dec 22 07:57:16 <jacques_pre> I'm only getting 20fps in firefox
Dec 22 07:57:33 * oil uses chrome over firefox
Dec 22 07:57:44 <jacques_pre> and it's taking more CPU
Dec 22 07:58:04 <amrcc> just wanted to let you guys know...cause at first all signs pointed to pkmgr....cause it was crashin and corruptin the packages file....the whole time it was an issue with the 1.3.1 pop changes...
Dec 22 07:58:12 <oil> anyways, rwhitby, i'm going to my sisters over the holidays
Dec 22 07:58:15 <oil> and im bringing my laptop
Dec 22 07:58:24 <jacques_pre> I wish I could config the chrome font rendering to not look blurry
Dec 22 07:58:29 <oil> so ill see if i can get some generic stuff for zenity going
Dec 22 07:58:31 <rwhitby> oil: so hacking time abounds?
Dec 22 07:59:06 <rwhitby> oil: I figure you just assume that the command line arguments to zenity are put into launch JSON for the app, and take it from there.
Dec 22 07:59:14 <jacques_pre> there are chromium packages for fedora now
Dec 22 07:59:25 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: does Gentoo have mjson ?
Dec 22 07:59:30 <oil> ill set it up somewhat like the other confirmation stuff
Dec 22 07:59:38 <oil> and put tests in teh launch for me to do it
Dec 22 07:59:42 <rwhitby> and if so, where are it's headers stored?  /usr/include or /usr/include/mjson ?
Dec 22 08:00:14 <rwhitby> oil: right, including the hash that we do for the confirmation stuff, and instead of passing back a boolean confirm you pass back a string
Dec 22 08:00:32 <oil> yeah
Dec 22 08:00:55 <rwhitby> ok, it's org.webosinternals.zenity
Dec 22 08:00:56 <oil> or maybe boolean for something like the question dialog
Dec 22 08:01:10 <oil> ill pass back what makes sense
Dec 22 08:01:20 <jacques_pre> rwhitby: I don't see it in the package db :-(
Dec 22 08:01:37 <oil> like obviously the error dialog wouldn't pass back anything
Dec 22 08:01:43 <rwhitby> jacques_pre: just working out where the headers should go in staging ...
Dec 22 08:02:03 <rwhitby> oil: http://library.gnome.org/users/zenity/stable/zenity-usage.html.en#zenity-usage-exitcodes
Dec 22 08:02:08 <rwhitby> need those
Dec 22 08:02:33 <rwhitby> and "When the user closes the dialog, Zenity prints the text produced by the dialog to standard output."
Dec 22 08:02:49 <rwhitby> which may be an empty string I guess
Dec 22 08:03:36 <oil> yeah
Dec 22 08:04:15 <adamrmcd> hello... I have a very quick question about Mojo.Log, but, I don't want to interrupt ;)
Dec 22 08:05:39 <adamrmcd> I'm trying to induce log messages in usr/lib/luna/system/luna-systemui/app/controllers , however, I cannot identify the application that's running to pass to `palm-log`
Dec 22 08:06:55 <adamrmcd> Is palm-log the only way to access log files, or is there something that can be run directly on the emulator CLI?
Dec 22 08:07:04 <adamrmcd> s/files/activity
Dec 22 08:07:12 <oil> tail -f /var/log/messages
Dec 22 08:07:30 <adamrmcd> Mojo.Log.info( TEXT ) doesn't log to /var/log/messages, it would seem
Dec 22 08:07:39 * oil usually uses alert()
Dec 22 08:07:54 <oil> though it could be just that you didn't set hte loglevel right in your appinfo or framework files
Dec 22 08:08:10 <oil> but, i dont know the correct values for those
Dec 22 08:08:33 <adamrmcd> possible. so you think  higher severity log level show up in /var/log/messages?
Dec 22 08:08:45 <oil> honestly, i just use alert()
Dec 22 08:08:45 <oil> haha
Dec 22 08:08:49 <oil> it always seems to show up
Dec 22 08:09:12 <adamrmcd> no kidding,... I had no idea that would work within mojo :P
Dec 22 08:09:20 <adamrmcd> but, make sense :]
Dec 22 08:09:34 <oil> yeah, it goes into messages
Dec 22 08:10:13 <oil> nothing on palm ever says
Dec 22 08:10:22 <oil> its easier to type though :)
Dec 22 08:10:26 <adamrmcd> haha!~ .. that'll work :)
Dec 22 08:10:28 <adamrmcd> thx, oil :D
Dec 22 08:10:34 <oil> and the header portion in the messages file is shorter
Dec 22 08:10:45 <oil> it just says ALERT:
Dec 22 08:10:51 <oil> intsead of appid/date/time/etc
Dec 22 08:11:57 <rwhitby> PmLogCtrl set LunaSysMgrJS debug I think
Dec 22 08:12:00 <rwhitby> something like that
Dec 22 08:16:49 <adamrmcd> one last question. `pkill LunaSysMgr` should be all that I need to do to force a app/views/*.js to be reloaded, correct?
Dec 22 08:17:03 <rwhitby> oil: wircd compiles easy, but the libirclient it depends on is not trivial :-)
Dec 22 08:17:17 <rwhitby> adamrmcd: yep
Dec 22 08:23:07 <eedrin> Hi - can anyone help me with ssh?  When I ssh into my pre the prompt says '<username>@palm-webos-device' instead of '<username>@castle'  ....is this correct?  I am having trouble creating the /etc/shells file (as specified in the "Finishing" step of http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Next_steps).  I get an error saying  '"/etc/shells" Read-only file system'
Dec 22 08:23:40 <jacques_pre> that prompt is normal
Dec 22 08:24:04 <jacques_pre> and you must remount root rw
Dec 22 08:24:34 <jacques_pre> mount -o remount,rw /
Dec 22 08:24:42 <jacques_pre> IIRC
Dec 22 08:24:52 <eedrin> when I remount as rw I get permission denied error when I try to create the /etc/shells file
Dec 22 08:25:25 <jacques_pre> is it really mounted rw?
Dec 22 08:25:37 <jacques_pre> cat /proc/mounts
Dec 22 08:26:28 <eedrin> yikes...ok what am I looking for?  (obv I am new to linux and pre etc)
Dec 22 08:27:14 <eedrin> first line is "rootfs / rootfs rw 0 0
Dec 22 08:27:15 <eedrin> "
Dec 22 08:27:28 <geist>  looks like it's rw
Dec 22 08:28:02 <eedrin> does it matter that the device name is NOT castle?
Dec 22 08:28:31 <jacques_pre> cat /proc/mounts (where's the pipe) grep store-root
Dec 22 08:29:16 <geist> we changed it at some point
Dec 22 08:29:20 <geist> 1.3 i think
Dec 22 08:29:23 <jacques_pre> cat /proc/mounts | grep store-root
Dec 22 08:29:48 <jacques_pre> rootfs always shows up rw
Dec 22 08:29:54 <eedrin> ah..ok, thought that might be it but figured I better check
Dec 22 08:30:38 <eedrin> "/dev/mapper/store-root / ext3 rw,data=ordered 0 0
Dec 22 08:30:49 <eedrin> "/dev/mapper/store-root /dev/.static/dev ext3 rw,data=ordered 0 0"
Dec 22 08:31:31 <jacques_pre> Ok so it's writable
Dec 22 08:32:05 <jacques_pre> the first of those two is relevant
Dec 22 08:32:21 <eedrin> maybe it's vi prob?  I don't see a file called shells in /etc/ so I just did "vi /etc/shells" to create it...right?
Dec 22 08:32:55 <geist> trying touching it
Dec 22 08:32:58 <jacques_pre> you could even use cat
Dec 22 08:32:59 <geist> touch /etc/shells
Dec 22 08:33:24 <jacques_pre> cat > /etc/shells
Dec 22 08:33:27 <eedrin> permission denied
Dec 22 08:33:35 <eedrin> for the touch
Dec 22 08:33:45 <joshua> did you remount read/write
Dec 22 08:33:58 <jacques_pre> Ctrl-D
Dec 22 08:34:02 <eedrin> yes, as far as I know
Dec 22 08:34:17 <jacques_pre> eedrin: you are root, right?
Dec 22 08:34:28 <eedrin> that closed the connection
Dec 22 08:35:00 <jacques_pre> joshua: his grep of /proc/mounts indicates it is rw
Dec 22 08:35:15 <eedrin> no - not root - the instructions say to use the login you created during optware setup
Dec 22 08:35:29 <jacques_pre> eedrin: argh.
Dec 22 08:35:34 <jacques_pre> heh
Dec 22 08:35:37 <eedrin> so I am using that
Dec 22 08:36:04 <eedrin> it specifically says to use that login...?!
Dec 22 08:36:07 <jacques_pre> only root should be able to write to /etc
Dec 22 08:36:38 <eedrin> "Log in with the username and password you created during the Optware installation"
Dec 22 08:36:41 <jacques_pre> ls -ld /etc
Dec 22 08:36:57 <jacques_pre> will show that only root has write perms
Dec 22 08:37:03 <hawiwo> i want to change PS1 in the terminal. How do i enter a backslash?
Dec 22 08:37:27 <eedrin> lrwxr-xr-x@ 1 root  admin  11 Mar  2  2008 /etc -> private/etc
Dec 22 08:37:27 <hawiwo> on palm pre :-)
Dec 22 08:37:46 <jacques_pre> eedrin: is there a line which says to su to root or to sudo?
Dec 22 08:37:49 <eedrin> should I just login in with root again and make the shells file from there?
Dec 22 08:38:12 <adamrmcd> oil: FWIW, alert() doesn't reliably show up in /var/log/messages, however Mojo.Log.error() does. Wierd.
Dec 22 08:38:13 <eedrin> no but I did try that - tho I may not have done it correctly
Dec 22 08:38:39 <eedrin> it says you may need to sudo so I did try that
Dec 22 08:38:40 <jacques_pre> eedrin: ok I am lost now; my /etc is not a symlink
Dec 22 08:38:53 <oil> its always been reliable for me
Dec 22 08:39:33 <eedrin> sorry I don't know what a symlink is :P  (i know...I'm a complete newbie - been 15 yrs since I did unix nad have never used linux til now)
Dec 22 08:39:35 <adamrmcd> oil: it may be the context where i'm calling it. This isn't a normal app, but a pretty low-level component of LunaSysMgr
Dec 22 08:39:36 <jacques_pre> eedrin: you did that ls on the pre?
Dec 22 08:40:07 <eedrin> doh...no
Dec 22 08:40:20 <adamrmcd> oil: but thanks again for the Mojo.Log.error() -> /var/log/messages hint. That allowed me to find my bug; ... a real knee-slapper :T
Dec 22 08:40:39 <eedrin> ok - here's ls on pre: drwxr-xr-x   45 root     root         4096 Dec 21 16:33 /etc
Dec 22 08:41:42 <jacques_pre> eedrin: you are close. you just need to have root privs to write in /etc
Dec 22 08:42:17 <jacques_pre> so either sudo vi /etc/shells or su - first
Dec 22 08:42:52 <jacques_pre> eedrin: yes that looks correct
Dec 22 08:42:58 <eedrin> ok...I did try sudo vi /etc/shells before but let me try again
Dec 22 08:43:42 <eedrin> : D
Dec 22 08:44:02 <jacques_pre> lol
Dec 22 08:44:06 <eedrin> yeah...so I must have done something wrong in the sudo before - thank you so much!
Dec 22 08:44:49 <jacques_pre> you're welcome
Dec 22 08:45:26 <eedrin> sorry to be a pest - I did try to figure this out for the last 3 hours before coming here - there's so much to learn!
Dec 22 08:46:21 <jacques_pre> I know the feeling. I know the linux part but not the rest.
Dec 22 08:46:42 <eedrin> thx again!  nite : )
Dec 22 08:47:12 <jacques_pre> later eedrin
Dec 22 09:12:49 <Tiny_> I am new to mobile development
Dec 22 09:13:03 <Tiny_> can any one help to start palm pro
Dec 22 09:13:04 <Tiny_> ?
Dec 22 09:15:38 <hawiwo> pro or pre?
Dec 22 09:22:56 <adamrmcd> Holy Crap!! .. my first patch is actually working :D:D:D
Dec 22 09:23:35 * adamrmcd does a little nerdy dance
Dec 22 09:23:44 <foxmulder> what's the patch do?
Dec 22 09:24:08 <adamrmcd> It allows you to set your IM Status (online, away, offline) in the device menu
Dec 22 09:24:21 <foxmulder> neat!
Dec 22 09:25:11 <adamrmcd> Eventually, it'll grow into an app that auto-sets your away status if the device is not moving (according to the accelerometer)... but, that'll be in Phase II :P
Dec 22 09:27:20 <adamrmcd> one last thing to do then I can git-commit and go to bed. The wife's getting a little mad :P
Dec 22 09:27:50 <rwhitby> adamrmcd: nice work
Dec 22 09:27:52 * rwhitby will use that patch
Dec 22 09:31:02 <adamrmcd> rwhitby, have a gander at adamrmcd-modifications.git in a few moments, if you're not too busy. I'm curious if I'm doing this correctly ;)
Dec 22 09:34:20 <hawiwo> where in the filesystem do i find the application data e.g. from classicnote?
Dec 22 09:41:08 <jauderho> rwhitby:  have you set up personal email certs before?
Dec 22 09:45:54 <adamrmcd> okay, git pushed. Have a good night ;)
Dec 22 09:52:30 <rwhitby> jauderho: yep, I've set up a number of certification authorities
Dec 22 09:57:19 * jacques_pre goes to sleep.
Dec 22 12:07:12 <einalex_> hm any idea why the pre would regularly crash short after rebbot with the smartflex 500 patch, it didn#t before using the patch. but now that i use the touchstone it crashed even if i don#t use it
Dec 22 12:22:12 <zefyx> einalex: yeah, because many people have had issues with those patches. thus the "dangerous" classification.
Dec 22 12:22:41 <einalex> so what is the reason?
Dec 22 13:54:47 <dBsooner> rwhitby: you still awake?
Dec 22 15:46:09 <WillJitsu> is there a known issue with alarms not going off if they were added via reloading the palm profile? I had 2 set and neither went off this morning.
Dec 22 15:49:27 <dsevil> dBsooner: thanks!  :)
Dec 22 15:53:00 <dBsooner> dsevil: does it work?
Dec 22 15:53:21 <mobgod> sup dBsooner
Dec 22 15:53:28 <dBsooner> mobgod: mornin
Dec 22 15:53:44 <mobgod> morning
Dec 22 15:54:08 <mobgod> you think you can point me in the right direction for the info im looking for
Dec 22 15:55:00 <dBsooner> mobgod: The best place to start is posting to the developer.palm.com and precentral.net forums.
Dec 22 15:55:14 <dBsooner> Asking if anyone is interested in that sort of a program, or if anyone is working on one.
Dec 22 15:55:56 <dBsooner> AFAIK, there is no such program in existance at this time.
Dec 22 15:56:11 <dBsooner> dsevil: you must retweet my tweet now. ;)
Dec 22 15:56:49 <mobgod> ok dBsooner so just post in the forums?
Dec 22 15:57:07 <dBsooner> mobgod: Yeah. You can also ask in #webos what people's thoughts are.
Dec 22 15:57:40 <dsevil> dBsooner: works on my pre
Dec 22 15:58:33 <dBsooner> dsevil: Yeah, it works on mine too.. I also "ported" it. (That's all I can say).
Dec 22 16:01:59 <dsevil> angui.sh ... heh
Dec 22 16:08:05 <mobgod> ok thanks dBsooner i did post on both
Dec 22 16:13:10 <dBsooner> Very nice rightup on Preware @ webosroundup.com
Dec 22 16:14:45 <mobgod> dBsooner u talking to me
Dec 22 16:15:37 <dBsooner> talking to everyone in general
Dec 22 16:16:19 <mobgod> oh
Dec 22 16:44:23 <Devo1> random question.  is there any way to get music player or music player remix to use .jpg files in the album folders?
Dec 22 16:45:53 <diov> Devol: if its linked to it with metadata
Dec 22 16:46:25 <Devo1> damn
Dec 22 16:46:32 <Devo1> none of my mp3s have that set
Dec 22 16:46:44 <Devo1> none of my players use that
Dec 22 16:52:09 <alkos333> Has anybody had any luck tethering to palm pre via a sub cable in linux?
Dec 22 17:02:10 <dsevil> alkos333: works for me on debian.
Dec 22 17:02:16 <dsevil> just have to add a few lines to /etc/network/interfaces
Dec 22 17:02:50 <dsevil> your mileage may vary on other distros... but generally you just need the usbnet driver(s) and it'll be usb0 instead of eth0.
Dec 22 17:16:49 <Devo1> is there an easy way to increase the memory for apps?
Dec 22 17:19:48 <gkatsev> mvapp, also, waiting till 1.3.5
Dec 22 17:20:34 <dsevil> Devo1: WebOS 1.3.5 will fix the app memory limit.
Dec 22 17:20:48 <Devo1> sweet
Dec 22 17:20:54 <Devo1> any word when 1.3.5 drops?
Dec 22 17:21:00 <gkatsev> CES?
Dec 22 17:21:03 <dBsooner> only chuqui knows
Dec 22 17:21:06 <Devo1> ahh
Dec 22 17:21:14 <dBsooner> (doubts that.. but it sounded clever)
Dec 22 17:21:16 <Devo1> 1.3.1 was such a crap update :(
Dec 22 17:21:25 <Devo1> any word if the gpu will become available?
Dec 22 17:21:27 <gkatsev> better than 1.3.1, lol
Dec 22 17:21:36 <gkatsev> Devo1: probably not
Dec 22 17:21:39 <chuqui> I know nothing...
Dec 22 17:21:46 <dBsooner> again, only chuqui knows
Dec 22 17:21:58 <chuqui> and I'm happy to prove it...
Dec 22 17:22:04 <gkatsev> Devo1: i think that gpu will be part of 2.0, as well as telekinesis
Dec 22 17:22:05 <dBsooner> Yeah, we know, we know.
Dec 22 17:22:13 <dBsooner> Adora knows all then.
Dec 22 17:22:18 <dBsooner> and she's not here to deny it.
Dec 22 17:24:08 <Devo1> I hadnt even heard about 2.0.  what is telekinesis?
Dec 22 17:24:16 <dsevil> hahah
Dec 22 17:24:34 <Devo1> and you would think that if they are doing a patch during ces they would drop something bigger then performance tweaks, to get some buzz going
Dec 22 17:24:51 <dsevil> we can speculate all we want.
Dec 22 17:25:53 <gkatsev> ~wikipedia telekinesis
Dec 22 17:26:06 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telekinesis (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{for3|Telekinesis|other uses of the word|disambiguation}} {{Paranormal |state=collapsed |image=Medium-Eva-Carriere-1912.jpg |caption=The medium Eva Carrière photographed in 1912 with a light appearing between her hands.}} The term 'psychokinesis' (from the Greek "ψ� χή", "psyche", meaning "mind, soul, heart, or breath"; and "κίνησις", "kinesis", meaning "motion, ...
Dec 22 17:26:13 <en0x> i think that they will make the vibrations longer
Dec 22 17:26:18 <en0x> so u can use pre as a dildo
Dec 22 17:26:52 <Devo1> damn, I can't wait to levitate stuff with my phone.
Dec 22 17:26:52 <en0x> ok lunch time
Dec 22 17:26:58 <Devo1> bet there isn't an app for that
Dec 22 17:27:17 <gkatsev> well, the iphone can heal wounds, so...
Dec 22 17:27:19 <dBsooner> chuqui: speaking "outside the box", do you REALLY think @Palm will wait another month for CES to announce 1.3.5? From what Rubenstein mentioned about it on the investors call, it doesn't sound like it should be an update worthy of a big-time CES announcement, no?
Dec 22 17:27:19 <gkatsev> its a trade off
Dec 22 17:28:15 <gkatsev> dBsooner: i think theyll announce 2.0 at CES and roll out 1.3.5 in the meantime. perhaps mention it at the keynote but not spend really any time on it
Dec 22 17:28:31 <dBsooner> but to me, that doesn't make sense.
Dec 22 17:28:47 <chuqui> not really something I can speak to in any detail... (gee, what a surprise)
Dec 22 17:29:10 <dBsooner> Why announce something (1.3.5) that "from the Rubensten call" looks to be "just fixing something Palm should have had fixed a long, long time ago...
Dec 22 17:29:14 <Devo1> gkatsev:  that seems likely to me as well
Dec 22 17:30:12 <chuqui> but if you think about it, thursday is christmas even and most people are scattering to their families for the holidays as I type (I'm headed to SoCal on thursday)
Dec 22 17:30:29 <gkatsev> chuqui: if you add a space before the message it wont get logged by infobot, and im sure rwhitby will delete that line from his logs as well. :D
Dec 22 17:30:29 <dBsooner> "LOOKY what we did.. we made it so you can install more apps..."... Reply: "Why was there an issue with that in the first place? It sounds as if you are patting yourself on the back for fixing something that should have never been broke and calling it a 'major success' worthy of a public announcement."
Dec 22 17:30:46 <chuqui> Palm is officially shut down the week of 12/28. some folks are working, many aren't.
Dec 22 17:31:19 <dBsooner> chuqui: sounds like a PERFECT time to release an update.. when no one is around to hear the backlash. :)
Dec 22 17:31:27 <Devo1> im sure some of the devs will be taking their laptops home with them
Dec 22 17:31:50 <chuqui> so given it's the 22nd and CES is the 7th and Palm is effectively on holiday from the 25th through the 4th...
Dec 22 17:31:51 <Rick_work> chuqi  pay not attention to dBsooner
Dec 22 17:31:55 <chuqui> anything can happen.
Dec 22 17:32:11 <gkatsev> lol
Dec 22 17:32:11 <Rick_work> with any luck,  Paul will be editing text during that lull week.  :-)
Dec 22 17:32:23 <dBsooner> Devo1: FWIW, I bet most of the 1.3.5 development is over and the code is in the hands of the carriers for QC approval. That takes forever. (I used to develop for carriers.)
Dec 22 17:32:39 <Devo1> ahh
Dec 22 17:32:58 <chuqui> gkatsev: depending on stuff not being logged is a great way to get in trouble. Either it's okay to say, or it's not. "Sshhh, this is a secret" stops working when the listeners is > than about 4.
Dec 22 17:32:59 <Devo1> I'm a startup guy. So i'm used to working strange hours in strange places
Dec 22 17:33:16 <dBsooner> Oh quiet down chuqui, we all know you have that magic red button in your office that launches the updates to the public..
Dec 22 17:33:32 <chuqui> (and I'd look gain at a calendar. CES is a lot closer than a month...)
Dec 22 17:33:42 <chuqui> closer to 2 weeks. (ahh!!!!)
Dec 22 17:33:51 <dBsooner> Yeah, I keep thinking its like first of december
Dec 22 17:33:54 <gkatsev> yeah, its 2.5 weeks or so
Dec 22 17:33:55 <dBsooner> (DOn't ask)
Dec 22 17:34:05 <Devo1> might want to get some shopping done....
Dec 22 17:34:06 <gkatsev> 12:32:58 < chuqui> gkatsev: depending on stuff not being logged is a great way to get in trouble. Either it's okay to say, or it's not. "Sshhh, this is a secret" stops working when the listeners is > than about 4.
Dec 22 17:34:16 <gkatsev> oops
Dec 22 17:34:21 <chuqui> heh
Dec 22 17:34:34 <gkatsev> accidentally right clicked
Dec 22 17:35:24 <dBsooner> hey, chuqui: are you under ben and dion?
Dec 22 17:35:37 <dBsooner> or is that a separate department as well?
Dec 22 17:35:48 <chuqui> yeah. I work for them.
Dec 22 17:36:14 <dBsooner> Good folk.. I have followed those guys for a long time.
Dec 22 17:36:18 <Rick_work> So chuqi you're going to be in Vegas?
Dec 22 17:36:51 <chuqui> no, no plans to be in vegas.
Dec 22 17:37:02 <Rick_work> awwwwwww  :-(
Dec 22 17:37:04 <chuqui> I'll be -- hiding. no, working....
Dec 22 17:37:15 <chuqui> someone's gotta hold down the fort.
Dec 22 17:37:18 <Rick_work> Still trying to figure out an event we can get together at.
Dec 22 17:37:29 <chuqui> yeah.
Dec 22 17:37:59 <Rick_work> Palm planning anything in the way of events that you WILL be at any time soon?  (first half of '10)
Dec 22 17:38:26 <chuqui> I dunno... (seriously).
Dec 22 17:38:30 <Devo1> chuqui: what do you do at palm?
Dec 22 17:38:39 <chuqui> as far as I can tell, answer email
Dec 22 17:39:01 <Devo1> haha
Dec 22 17:39:10 <Devo1> the angry ones?
Dec 22 17:39:13 <Rick_work> and answer forum posts, and chat on IRC....
Dec 22 17:39:52 <chuqui> no, I throw out the angry ones unanswered... (ducking)
Dec 22 17:40:19 <dBsooner> He only chats on IRC.
Dec 22 17:40:28 <dBsooner> He has a robot (assistant) that answers his emails.
Dec 22 17:40:35 <dBsooner> and forum posts are his alter-ego.
Dec 22 17:44:07 <hawiwo> how do i enter a '\' (backslash) in Terminal - Version: Alpha 0.2.2
Dec 22 17:53:07 <dsevil> hawiwo: I'm pretty sure there's something in the menu that tells you how to press all the keys you can't just up and type on the Pre keyboard.
Dec 22 17:55:13 <Rick_work> backslash isn't in the docs on the wiki
Dec 22 17:57:32 <alkos333> dsevil: I can't seem to figure out what modules I need to enable in the kernel to get it to work.
Dec 22 17:58:29 <alkos333> dsevil: Yeah, I got usbnet module compiled..
Dec 22 17:58:34 <dsevil> alkos333: I probably wouldn't be able to figure that out either.  Debian auto-loaded the correct modules for me.
Dec 22 17:58:48 <dsevil> I know the main one is usbnet though, but that's all I know.
Dec 22 17:59:35 <dsevil> Rick_work, hawiwo: yeah, I just looked at the menu myself and \ ain't on there.  What the?
Dec 22 18:00:41 <alkos333> dsevil: Would you be able to show me your output for lsmod"
Dec 22 18:00:42 <alkos333> ?
Dec 22 18:03:34 <dsevil> alkos333: pming
Dec 22 18:05:27 <alkos333> Hey
Dec 22 18:11:17 <alkos333> dsevil: pming :)
Dec 22 18:14:50 <Abyssul> love the new patches
Dec 22 18:21:06 <dBsooner> Abyssul: so retweet my tweet.
Dec 22 18:21:16 * dBsooner doesn't have very much love from twitter folk.
Dec 22 18:21:28 <dBsooner> I guess it's safe to say I don't have very many "tweeps".
Dec 22 18:22:50 <Abyssul> I dont have twitter
Dec 22 18:28:03 <alkos333> What did you guys add to /etc/networks/interfaces for usb0?
Dec 22 18:28:13 <elcer77> I have a theme installed, but the preware site dnt show me having it insalled.
Dec 22 18:32:06 <DarkSpecter> O.o
Dec 22 18:32:46 <DarkSpecter> unreal3 engine on the iphone, i bet now even more ppl will whine about the lack of gpu support in webos
Dec 22 18:33:07 <Abyssul> Actually I just scanned a thread on that lol
Dec 22 18:41:16 <Abyssul> what the heck is this?
Dec 22 18:41:37 <Abyssul> This patch got rid of the launcher page animations
Dec 22 18:53:51 <dBsooner> Abyssul: what patch?
Dec 22 19:32:08 <elcer77> how do I fix my theme... Is not showing that I have one when in reallity I do, I don't have option to uninstall.
Dec 22 19:57:43 <Mousey> why can i not find any info on the wiki about the legality of sideloading?
Dec 22 19:57:53 <Mousey> its it one of Those Topics(tm)?
Dec 22 19:58:11 <Rick_work> Mousey,  i don't understand what you're looking for....
Dec 22 19:58:48 <Rick_work> Palm makes no restrictions on sideloading because the sdk is freely available for download to anyone.  So, anyone can get a copy of palm-install and install anything they want.
Dec 22 19:59:05 <Rick_work> Palm also provides novaterm, so accessing the linux command line is allowed.  :-)
Dec 22 19:59:12 <Rick_work> what is it you're wanting to know?
Dec 22 20:01:37 <Mousey> well i'm talking to funambol and synthesis.ch about SyncML clients, but they're concerned about the legality of developing outside of the SDK's TOS, which is basically all that ever gets done of any value
Dec 22 20:02:11 <Mousey> so, i'm looking for a site or a wiki page or a forum topic about why webos-internals, preware, woqi is allowed (if not sanctioned) by palm to put in my responses
Dec 22 20:02:42 <Mousey> i blame JWZ for this nonsense, btw
Dec 22 20:02:58 <Rick_work> blame away.
Dec 22 20:03:09 * Mousey waves fist with righteous indignation
Dec 22 20:03:21 <Rick_work> uhm,  huh.  All I have is video
Dec 22 20:03:39 <Mousey> i know there's been discussion of it. i've seen it before, but my googlefingers are failing me
Dec 22 20:03:44 <Rick_work> Mitch Allen, Dion and Ben at Sprint Dev
Dec 22 20:03:55 <ird> my pre is annoying me.
Dec 22 20:04:04 <ird> USB mode doesn't work half the time.. :(
Dec 22 20:04:15 <Mousey> what i read, once upon a time, actually pointed out the loophole in the TOS that made it appear sideloading was allowed..
Dec 22 20:04:18 <Rick_work> where Mitch and Dion and Ben all praise webos-internals for what we've done and how cool preware is.   (in answer to the question i asked.)
Dec 22 20:04:28 <Mousey> like if it was for beta development or something
Dec 22 20:06:45 <Mousey> rats, i wish i could find it. It' be a great bullet for their stupid hiding behind bad information
Dec 22 20:07:00 <Mousey> maybe get to the REAL reason they won't commit ^_^
Dec 22 20:07:11 <Mousey> well, funambol looks far more likely to help actually
Dec 22 20:07:44 <Mousey> the forum thread was genuinely surprised by the existance of preware/webos-internals.. i hate when that happens. why dont they already know???
Dec 22 20:07:47 <Mousey> DAMN YOU JAMIE!!!
Dec 22 20:07:54 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 22 20:08:07 <dsevil> Mousey: Palm isn't exactly being dicks and stopping people from developing outside the SDK.  The fruits of such labor won't appear in the app catalog anytime soon but other than that, full speed ahead.
Dec 22 20:12:48 <Mousey> dsevil: yah, they do. you see a lot of apps in preware long before they make it to the App Catalog. as it should be, i think.
Dec 22 20:14:11 <Mousey> it's just, i'd love to have an independent SyncML client so i didn't have to sync all my contacts, calendar, pr0n to Palm's own server, just so one day when one of their disgruntled employees needs to pay off a gambling debt to some russians, my data (and countless otherses) don't get sold off
Dec 22 20:14:28 <Mousey> +sells
Dec 22 20:14:31 <Abyssul> dBsooner: wrap pages
Dec 22 20:14:33 <Mousey> -sells
Dec 22 20:17:45 <Mousey> wasn't their a direct link to the SDK on the webos-internals page?
Dec 22 20:17:56 <Mousey> s/webos-internals/wiki/
Dec 22 20:17:56 <infobot> Mousey meant: wasn't their a direct link to the SDK on the wiki page?
Dec 22 20:19:19 <Mousey> infobot sdk?
Dec 22 20:19:21 <infobot> The Palm SDK is now public, and can be downloaded from http://developer.palm.com
Dec 22 20:19:24 <Mousey> bah
Dec 22 20:23:57 <dsevil> Mousey: I was specifically talking about outside-of-SDK development
Dec 22 20:24:30 <Mousey> oh
Dec 22 20:24:33 <Mousey> well
Dec 22 20:24:35 <dsevil> (which one would probably have to do to develop a SyncML client, as the state of the SDK is now.)
Dec 22 20:24:45 <Mousey> did you know you oculd get PAID to write a SyncML client for WebOS??
Dec 22 20:24:46 <Mousey> https://webos-client.forge.funambol.org/
Dec 22 20:24:55 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 22 20:26:47 <DarkSpecter> ...forget syncml, we need a last.fm client :P
Dec 22 20:26:55 * DarkSpecter hides
Dec 22 20:27:33 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: i agree
Dec 22 20:27:48 <dsevil> i still want shazam
Dec 22 20:28:12 <Mousey> REALLY what i want is a jabber client
Dec 22 20:28:15 <Mousey> dammit
Dec 22 20:28:35 <Mousey> but i happened to find two parties considering a syncml client (#2 on my christmas list), so i got involved
Dec 22 20:28:48 <Mousey> man i wanna jabber client
Dec 22 20:28:48 <Mousey> =(
Dec 22 20:29:56 <DarkSpecter> dsevil: we dont even have simple recording app, so using the mic for apps seems to be more or less a no go right now ;)
Dec 22 20:30:29 <DarkSpecter> jabber client should be doable
Dec 22 20:31:52 <dsevil> yeah... shazam would have to be outside-SDK stuff, for now
Dec 22 20:32:06 <DarkSpecter> i mean, webos uses libpurple so we are just missing a plugin
Dec 22 20:34:01 <DarkSpecter> i havent looked at precorder yet but i guess it comes with a service that would let you use the mic in a app
Dec 22 20:34:51 <dsevil> Device Info app -> Preferences -> Interactive Tests
Dec 22 20:35:13 <dsevil> that might help you too
Dec 22 20:37:43 <DarkSpecter> Mousey: now that i think about it, the pre already has full jabber support
Dec 22 20:37:59 <DarkSpecter> just lacks configurability
Dec 22 20:38:10 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: EXACTLY
Dec 22 20:38:14 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: HALP!!
Dec 22 20:38:16 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 22 20:38:19 <DarkSpecter> lol
Dec 22 20:45:52 <DarkSpecter> Mousey: you might want to stalk the guy who made the msn mod for the pre, maybe he knows how you can hack the messaging app ;)
Dec 22 20:46:45 <Mousey> url?
Dec 22 20:48:12 <Mousey> maaaaaaaaan did apache get MAD when mysql disappeared
Dec 22 20:48:45 <DarkSpecter> http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9922/windows-live-plugin-for-webos-messaging-in-development/
Dec 22 20:48:54 <Mousey> ty!
Dec 22 20:57:42 <DarkSpecter> Mousey: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=patches/messaging-plugins.git;a=summary
Dec 22 21:08:08 <Mousey> ty
Dec 22 21:08:28 <Mousey> ah, that guy!
Dec 22 21:08:40 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: i've actually talked to him about a jabber client before. he's been in here
Dec 22 21:08:44 <Mousey> haven't seen him lately tho
Dec 22 21:08:51 <Mousey> maybe i should ping him on it. ^_^
Dec 22 21:11:01 <DarkSpecter> heh, first time webchat failed me
Dec 22 21:11:17 <linuxjacques_> you too?
Dec 22 21:11:39 <linuxjacques_> I attribute most of my webchat problems to the proxy here at work
Dec 22 21:12:05 <rwhitby> morning
Dec 22 21:12:09 <Rick_work> morning
Dec 22 21:12:48 <linuxjacques_> rwhitby: just for completeness, here is the gumstix overo OE thing I was talking about last night: http://www.gumstix.net/Overo/view/Overo-Setup-and-Programming/Setting-up-a-build-environment/115.html
Dec 22 21:14:27 <Mousey> am i incorrect to assume the SDK is available from a link in the wiki? (one that doesn't require palm's registration)(maybe i'm confusing it with WebOSdoctor)
Dec 22 21:16:29 <linuxjacques_> cool, my powerpc embedded board just booted to 2.6.32.2
Dec 22 21:23:08 <DarkSpecter> Mousey: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1661
Dec 22 21:23:52 <Mousey> nice, but is that a link in the wiki somewhere? (should/can it be?)
Dec 22 21:24:22 <DarkSpecter> no idea
Dec 22 21:24:24 <DarkSpecter> :P
Dec 22 21:24:31 <DarkSpecter> morning rwhitby
Dec 22 21:30:14 <rwhitby> Mousey: SDK download required registration at developer.palm.com I think.  webos doctor download links are on our wiki (search for webos doctor versions)
Dec 22 21:33:33 <Mousey> ok, i'm just confused then, apologies
Dec 22 21:33:49 * Mousey sends his encouragment mails anyway
Dec 22 21:50:10 <rwhitby> Mousey: there used to be some weasel words on our site about TOS stuff, but we removed it when we realised that Palm are supportive of homebrew, so we don't need to cover our asses, we just need to operate within the bounds of common sense.
Dec 22 21:51:41 <Mousey> k. well you know how "companies" love that CYA language... I'll just keep insisting "no! no! palm wants this!" and hope they can figure it out for themselves
Dec 22 21:52:05 <Mousey> i found this: https://webos-client.forge.funambol.org/
Dec 22 21:52:12 <Mousey> so now i'm gonna write that greg guy
Dec 22 21:52:17 <Mousey> cuz i want jabber!
Dec 22 21:52:18 <Mousey> ^_^
Dec 22 21:52:36 <jacques> common sense ftw
Dec 22 21:52:41 <Mousey> ooops
Dec 22 21:52:43 <Mousey> that's not jabber
Dec 22 21:53:23 * Mousey scraps his email
Dec 22 21:53:30 <Mousey> dammit, attention to detail, Mousey
Dec 22 21:54:04 <dsevil> i'll use common::sense when they port it from perl to javascript
Dec 22 21:54:08 <dsevil> (yes, that's the name of an actual cpan module.)
Dec 22 21:54:21 <dBsooner> rwhitby: you see the Preware writeup on webOSroundup.com? Very nice.
Dec 22 21:54:35 * DarkSpecter loves cpan
Dec 22 21:54:49 <dsevil> cpan is a powerful drug
Dec 22 21:55:11 <rwhitby> dBsooner: yep, a good video too
Dec 22 21:55:33 <dBsooner> Yeah? I haven't been able to view the video at work. But I did read the article.
Dec 22 21:55:46 <dBsooner> It made you sound like the best thing since sliced bread. ;)
Dec 22 21:56:18 <rwhitby> dBsooner: yeah, that didn't cost much at all ;-)
Dec 22 21:56:22 <jeffgus> Mousey, isn't funambol libs already in the Pre?
Dec 22 21:56:49 <jeffgus> so the https://webos-client.forge.funambol.org/ project should just provide api access to the existing libs
Dec 22 21:57:00 <jeffgus> well, at least i hope it is that easy. :)
Dec 22 21:58:03 <jeffgus> Mousey, check this article http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2009/06/inside-pre.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MobileOpenSource+%28Mobile+Open+Source%29
Dec 22 21:58:33 <jeffgus> err
Dec 22 21:58:35 <jeffgus> http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2009/06/inside-pre.html
Dec 22 21:58:47 <jeffgus> "In general, it is very easy to modify things, for example someone quickly modified the camera to no longer make the shutter noise even with all system sounds enabled (not that I know what the use case behind it could be...). Tethering your laptop via wifi is just a matter of changing a couple of config files. There are also things I cannot talk about, but others are (for example here and here)."
Dec 22 21:58:49 <Mousey> oh that's old
Dec 22 21:59:03 <jeffgus>  Originally Posted by LinuxGuy  View Post
Dec 22 21:59:04 <jeffgus> From ./luna/data/Apps/br/config/spds/syncml.properties
Dec 22 21:59:14 <jeffgus> # The initial URL for the SyncML request
Dec 22 21:59:28 <jeffgus> Mousey, yeah.. so if the library is in there
Dec 22 21:59:36 <jeffgus> there shouldn't be much to write
Dec 22 21:59:40 <Mousey> jeffgus: https://core.forge.funambol.org/ds/viewMessage.do?dsForumId=405&dsMessageId=84485
Dec 22 21:59:47 <Mousey> oh, well htat's SyncML
Dec 22 21:59:49 <Mousey> but yah
Dec 22 22:00:16 <Mousey> i won't buy you beer if you write the jabber client patch, cuz you won't drink it. but i'll crash your wedding! ^_^
Dec 22 22:01:02 <jeffgus> hahah
Dec 22 22:01:27 <Mousey> bbl, lunch
Dec 22 22:01:32 <jeffgus> it seems like the jabber client would also be simple
Dec 22 22:01:40 <jeffgus> Mousey, i suppose i should take a look sometime
Dec 22 22:07:03 <jacques> "open standard homebrew ecosystem" cool
Dec 22 22:07:34 <jacques> hmm, if you switch it around
Dec 22 22:07:46 <jacques> homebrew open standard ecosystem : HOSE
Dec 22 22:07:55 <jacques> d00d, you're HOSEd
Dec 22 22:09:21 <DarkSpecter> jeffgus: in theory all that should be needed is to patch up the existing gtalk stuff to allow alternate server entrys
Dec 22 22:10:20 <rwhitby> jacques: hmm - I never considered the acronym value ...
Dec 22 22:10:28 <jeffgus> DarkSpecter, yes, that does sound right.  and a simple interface
Dec 22 22:10:54 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: harald welte has already released binary patch instructions to enable jabber
Dec 22 22:11:15 <dsevil> I like how we're an "ecosystem" instead of a "loosely connected group of javascript hackers with spare time on their hands" ;)
Dec 22 22:11:33 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: got a link to that ?
Dec 22 22:11:49 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/12/04#20091204-palm_preware_catalog is where he talks about Preware
Dec 22 22:12:13 <rwhitby> http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/10/31#20091031-binary_patching_webos_for_jabber is the jabber patch
Dec 22 22:12:21 <jacques> rwhitby: well, you can't do everything :-D
Dec 22 22:12:28 <rwhitby> dsevil: gotta talk it up, you know ;-)
Dec 22 22:12:33 <DarkSpecter> thx
Dec 22 22:12:40 <dsevil> We should also say things about "synergize our core competencies in leveraging and utilizing open standards to provide a value-add for mobile devices"
Dec 22 22:13:20 <rwhitby> dsevil: that's "employ consensus-based decision making processes to synergize our core competencies in leveraging and utilizing open standards to provide a value-add for mobile devices" ...
Dec 22 22:13:32 <dsevil> You're good.
Dec 22 22:13:38 * jacques is starting to get a headache now.
Dec 22 22:13:57 <jacques> I'd rather just make up puns based on HOSE
Dec 22 22:14:31 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 22 22:16:10 <DarkSpecter> dsevil: now we need to declare a fex CxO's and make everyone a manager
Dec 22 22:16:22 <DarkSpecter> s/now/next/
Dec 22 22:16:23 <infobot> DarkSpecter meant: dsevil: next we need to declare a fex CxO's and make everyone a manager
Dec 22 22:16:51 <dsevil> haha, irc sed fail
Dec 22 22:17:01 <dsevil> nevermind
Dec 22 22:17:17 * DarkSpecter wonders if infobot can do s/foo/bar/g *eg
Dec 22 22:20:25 <jacques> can multiple themes be installed simultaneously and quickly switched?
Dec 22 22:20:35 <DarkSpecter> no
Dec 22 22:20:47 <Rick_work> jacques  they COULD but we have no "rapid switching software.
Dec 22 22:21:13 <Rick_work> at the present time the themes are copied OVER THE TOP of the default files.
Dec 22 22:21:29 <Rick_work> and the default files are safetied by copying them out to safe names first.
Dec 22 22:21:33 <jacques> Rick_work: aha. thanks that's what I inferred from something I read
Dec 22 22:21:55 <Rick_work> If we went with a different methodology, we could do that.
Dec 22 22:22:23 <jacques> are system sounds changeable?
Dec 22 22:22:25 <Rick_work> "context sensitive themes"  -- work, home, bar, location sensitive themes, subway, church, strip club
Dec 22 22:22:35 <jacques> Rick_work: yeah I like that idea a lot
Dec 22 22:22:45 <jacques> hook it up to the GPS :-)
Dec 22 22:22:52 <Rick_work> jacques yes  -- identically to themes.  you can overwrite the files that are there with different files with the same name.
Dec 22 22:23:00 <DarkSpecter> should be easy to implement
Dec 22 22:23:00 <Rick_work> no one has done sound themes that I know of.
Dec 22 22:23:16 <jacques> I hadn't seen any sound themes which is what made me wonder
Dec 22 22:23:19 <Rick_work> as I think of it I wonder why not?
Dec 22 22:24:21 * DarkSpecter imagines a HAL9000 theme ... "you've got a call dave"
Dec 22 22:24:48 <jacques> answer the call HAL
Dec 22 22:25:43 <DarkSpecter> ...even nerdier, a lcars theme with matching sounds :P
Dec 22 22:25:44 <jacques> I just want my pre to make the Droid sound (just kidding!)
Dec 22 22:26:14 <jacques> lcars?
Dec 22 22:26:25 <DarkSpecter> just google it ;)
Dec 22 22:26:42 <jacques> is it safe for work?
Dec 22 22:26:43 <DarkSpecter> ... and be afraid of what you will find
Dec 22 22:28:14 <jacques> oh that is too cool
Dec 22 22:28:26 * jacques wants.
Dec 22 22:28:42 <jacques> yes, I *am* a nerd, why do you ask?
Dec 22 22:28:48 <DarkSpecter> lol
Dec 22 22:30:56 <jacques> "My phone is a productivity tool, and I’m looking for applications that increase the versatility of that tool, not applications which reproduce the noise of bodily functions, ..."  - BUUURNNN!!!
Dec 22 22:30:58 <DarkSpecter> i have no problems with nerds, it's just that "lcars nerds" tend to be overly extreme :P
Dec 22 22:31:35 <jacques> rwhitby really has a way with words.
Dec 22 22:32:12 <DarkSpecter> PuffTheMagic: i have the ultimate project for you
Dec 22 22:33:53 <DarkSpecter> wb rwhitby-pre
Dec 22 22:36:46 <Bmed> hello
Dec 22 22:36:54 <Bmed> I need urgent help
Dec 22 22:37:13 <Bmed> can anyone help me :D?
Dec 22 22:37:45 <jacques> we can try
Dec 22 22:39:31 <Bmed> thanks, I need help with the patch multimod but I'm not sure if its the patch or my phone when I try to download something I get an error but then when I stream it works fine, I tried using filecoaster to download but the same thing happened, do you know the problem ? :D
Dec 22 22:40:50 <jacques> what's the error?
Dec 22 22:41:38 <Bmed> just has the yield yellow triangle and it doesn't download, for filecoaster it just says download failed
Dec 22 22:41:59 <Rick_work> filecoaster can not install patches
Dec 22 22:42:18 <Bmed> not patches a vid or mp3 file
Dec 22 22:42:29 <Bmed> I'm downloading not installing
Dec 22 22:42:38 <Rick_work> oh
Dec 22 22:44:06 <Bmed> :D so anyone know the problem?
Dec 22 22:44:11 <rwhitby-pre> remove the patch, see if it fixes it
Dec 22 22:44:18 <Bmed> I did
Dec 22 22:44:31 <DarkSpecter> gsm ?
Dec 22 22:44:37 <Bmed> nope
Dec 22 22:45:39 <rwhitby-pre> so did removing the patch fix it?
Dec 22 22:45:45 <Bmed> nope
Dec 22 22:46:05 <rwhitby-pre> it's not the patch then
Dec 22 22:46:21 <Bmed> yep I thought so too but I wasn't sure
Dec 22 22:46:43 <jamiehs> Bmed, can you download the file on another device?
Dec 22 22:47:04 <Bmed> wait lemme see
Dec 22 22:48:04 * DarkSpecter feels reminded of his preware not being able to install packages most of the time unless he uses wifi
Dec 22 22:48:06 <jacques> this reminds me of a question I had. is there any downside to installing the optware wget on the pre? does the pre use wget for something internally and would get confused by the different behavior vs. the busybox wget?
Dec 22 22:49:30 <Bmed> yes
Dec 22 22:49:52 <Bmed> it work with other devices
Dec 22 22:52:01 <rwhitby-pre> jacques: that might be a solution for DarkSpecter ...
Dec 22 22:52:32 <jacques> the busybox wget is very ... limited in its scope
Dec 22 22:55:33 * Mousey is reminded to install the optware wget
Dec 22 22:56:07 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby-pre: good idea, should have thought about that myself
Dec 22 22:56:56 <DarkSpecter> does preware use the new wget automagicaly ?
Dec 22 22:58:21 <rwhitby-pre> dunno
Dec 22 22:59:02 <jacques> it might depend on the PATH env var
Dec 22 23:00:39 <DarkSpecter> changing that for root is no problem, but the question is if preware evaluates roots .profile :P
Dec 22 23:01:44 <rwhitby-pre> preware just calls ipkg
Dec 22 23:01:50 <rwhitby-pre> it depends what ipkg does
Dec 22 23:02:55 <DarkSpecter> oh well, i'll just let /usr/bin/wget point to opt/bin/wget i guess
Dec 22 23:03:06 * Mousey is saved the trouble of searching
Dec 22 23:04:12 <Mousey> yay -o remount!
Dec 22 23:04:22 <DarkSpecter> ?
Dec 22 23:05:27 <Mousey> mount -o remount,rw / && mv /usr/bin/wget /usr/bin/bb.wget && ln -s /opt/bin/wget /usr/bin/ && mount -o remount,ro /
Dec 22 23:05:32 <Mousey> ftw!
Dec 22 23:05:57 <DarkSpecter> try rootfs_open ;)
Dec 22 23:06:00 <Mousey> bah
Dec 22 23:06:20 <Mousey> oooh, fancy
Dec 22 23:06:27 <Mousey> and less keystrokes too
Dec 22 23:06:30 <dsevil> you might want to be careful with that sort of thing, generally.  there could be something out there that depends on a particular behavior of busybox's implementation of something.
Dec 22 23:06:36 <DarkSpecter> and the mv is not needed, as /usr/bin/wget is just a symlink to busybox
Dec 22 23:07:04 <Mousey> i'm preserving the link
Dec 22 23:07:08 <Mousey> so i remember i made it
Dec 22 23:07:17 <Mousey> or rather, that it was made
Dec 22 23:07:27 <Mousey> yay $0!
Dec 22 23:07:46 <DarkSpecter> dsevil: true, but the worst that could happen in this case is that i wont be able to download someting, and i can fix that anytime
Dec 22 23:08:56 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby-pre: btw, webos lacks something very important, moo power ;)
Dec 22 23:09:48 * jacques remembers one time (maybe several times) when he copied something over a busybox symlink and overwrote busybox
Dec 22 23:10:41 <DarkSpecter> heh, always check your destination first :P
Dec 22 23:13:14 <Mousey> another reason i mv the links
Dec 22 23:13:16 <Mousey> =P
Dec 22 23:13:19 <dsevil> imo, if preware or its underlying services needs to use a full-blown version of wget that's not on the device by to work, that's a bug with preware or its underlying services
Dec 22 23:13:23 * dBsooner loves it when @webosinternals (rwhitby) retweets him.. he gets like +5 followers instantly.
Dec 22 23:13:30 <dsevil> s/device by to/device by default to/
Dec 22 23:13:30 <infobot> dsevil meant: imo, if preware or its underlying services needs to use a full-blown version of wget that's not on the device by default to work, that's a bug with preware or its underlying services
Dec 22 23:14:06 <rwhitby> dsevil: agreed - if someone can diagnose the GSM download problem, we can fix it.
Dec 22 23:14:08 <Mousey> unless optware wget becomes a preware dep?
Dec 22 23:14:21 <Mousey> is there a syslog?
Dec 22 23:14:22 <dsevil> Mousey: true
Dec 22 23:14:33 <jacques> hmm, I just almost blew webchat's mind (or rather my browser's mind) by asking for a channel list (at least I think that's what I asked for)
Dec 22 23:14:57 <zsoc> so I'm getting 'not enough available install space' errors in the app catalog. I have ipkg mgr service x.x.26 and my /var is almost empty.
Dec 22 23:15:04 <rwhitby> long term, I expect we might move to opkg for Preware, using libcurl ...
Dec 22 23:15:06 <DarkSpecter> Mousey: yes, Pmsyslog or something like that
Dec 22 23:15:18 <rwhitby> zsoc: turn off the partial app limit fix
Dec 22 23:15:28 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: sho nuff!
Dec 22 23:15:35 <DarkSpecter> yay for curl
Dec 22 23:15:36 <Mousey> and SCREEN!
Dec 22 23:15:39 <Mousey> yay for screne!
Dec 22 23:15:44 <zsoc> rwhitby: is this an option in preware or a palm thing?
Dec 22 23:15:44 <Mousey> s/ene/een/
Dec 22 23:15:45 <infobot> Mousey meant: yay for screen!
Dec 22 23:15:53 <rwhitby> zsoc: preware preference
Dec 22 23:15:57 <ESP> Hi All - Sorry to hit right on a question but I have been messing around with my PRE since I got it, and now I cannot install preware it just says the install failed....  I'm doing this from a mac with the jar files if that matters... Ideas?
Dec 22 23:16:15 <rwhitby> ESP: try http://install.preware.org/
Dec 22 23:16:36 <Mousey> WHAT? NO TAIL?!
Dec 22 23:16:47 <DarkSpecter> sure there is tail
Dec 22 23:17:08 <ESP> thanks for the helpful adive +rwhitby I'm way past that
Dec 22 23:17:15 <zsoc> rwhitby: thank you, fixed it
Dec 22 23:17:24 * Mousey installs full-blown less
Dec 22 23:17:33 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: no tail!
Dec 22 23:17:51 <DarkSpecter> but syslog on the palm is pretty messy, powerd kills readybility
Dec 22 23:18:13 <Mousey> DarkSpecter: grep -v powerd ressurects readability! ^_6
Dec 22 23:18:16 <Mousey> augh my eye!
Dec 22 23:18:28 <zsoc> ESP: try describing your method and errors in more detail
Dec 22 23:18:46 <rwhitby> zsoc: there's an off by one string bounds error in LunaSysMgr, and sometimes the partial app limit fix tickles it.  so for some people it sometimes needs to be off to work.
Dec 22 23:18:47 <Mousey> oh, there is a tail
Dec 22 23:18:59 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: there's a patch to remove the powerd messages
Dec 22 23:19:05 <Rick_work> yes, there is a tail.
Dec 22 23:19:10 <DarkSpecter> root@palm-webos-device:/var/home/root# which tail /usr/bin/tail
Dec 22 23:19:16 <Mousey> yah, busybox agian
Dec 22 23:19:21 <zsoc> Mousey: you are actually very funny
Dec 22 23:19:25 <Mousey> =P
Dec 22 23:19:25 <DarkSpecter>  /usr/bin/tail
Dec 22 23:19:34 <rwhitby> ESP: can novaterm connect to the device?
Dec 22 23:19:34 <ESP> Drivers are installed, I made sure everything is up-to-date already. The jar install for preware says "The program installation appears to have failed"
Dec 22 23:19:44 <zsoc> rwhitby: I see. odd. its funny it works now even when I turn it back on.
Dec 22 23:19:49 <Rick_work> oh gooody.   someone's offering antivirus software for smartphones now.
Dec 22 23:20:18 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: you mean the one that spams right into the terminal ? was 1st think i installed after terminal
Dec 22 23:20:20 <ESP> rwhitby: yes
Dec 22 23:20:21 <rwhitby> zsoc: yep, the number of installed packages changes the behaviour of the off by one bug, cause it has a different chance of getting a null in the overflow
Dec 22 23:20:23 <zsoc> Rick_work: I should see a webos anti virus, thanks for the tip. i'l include a bonus 'memory leak' cleanup
Dec 22 23:20:44 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: i mean the spam in /var/log/messages
Dec 22 23:21:00 <zsoc> Rick_work: er... s/see/make/
Dec 22 23:21:03 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: ah, right. the patch only affects what appears on the console
Dec 22 23:22:04 <Rick_work> heading home now.
Dec 22 23:22:07 <Rick_work> Bbl
Dec 22 23:22:14 <rwhitby> wow: Google Alerts just told me about http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/OriginalIswitchB - an 'rwhitby' reference from 05/19/1994 ...
Dec 22 23:22:32 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: unmessing /var/log/messages should be possible by modifying /etc/PmLog.conf though i guess
Dec 22 23:23:40 <zsoc> rwhitby: really on the ball
Dec 22 23:24:37 <ESP> it's just the IPKG install of Preware that gives that error with no log or anything I can find. I'm connected to the noacom console and checked everything seems seem fine
Dec 22 23:26:21 <rwhitby> ESP: no Java log on the host?
Dec 22 23:26:30 <rwhitby> (e.g. in /var/log/system.log on the Mac)
Dec 22 23:27:02 <Abyssul> man that nexus one is sexy
Dec 22 23:27:19 <zsoc> Abyssul: really? I don't see it
Dec 22 23:27:29 <Abyssul> On engadget
Dec 22 23:27:32 <rwhitby> jacques: are you set up to build from preware/build.git yet?
Dec 22 23:29:36 <jacques> rwhitby: I don't think so. is that something I started looking at last week and got distracted? :-\
Dec 22 23:29:39 <ESP> Well, that might help! Dec 22 17:25:59 Ceramic pkgutil[33601]: PackageKit: *** Missing bundle identifier: /Library/Receipts/Sprint SmartView Caches.pkg Dec 22 17:25:59 Ceramic [0x0-0x19782769].com.apple.JarLauncher[33580]: Dec 22, 2009 5:25:59 PM com.palm.nova.installer.core.DesktopDriversMgr$OffloadedStreamReader run
Dec 22 23:30:55 <ESP> Dec 22 17:26:04 Ceramic [0x0-0x19782769].com.apple.JarLauncher[33580]: ERROR - Installation of org.webosinternals.ipkgservice failed. Dec 22 17:26:04 Ceramic [0x0-0x19782769].com.apple.JarLauncher[33580]: Package installation failed, check log for errors. Dec 22 17:26:07 Ceramic LiveMeshAgent[12118]: [WLCDaemon/Source/WLCMoeIDCRL.mm:327] IDCRL: Unable to AuthIdentityToService  hr = -2147186590
Dec 22 23:31:34 <ESP> That is all that is realvent. actually the last line is not relavent. Thanks for the help with this by the way
Dec 22 23:31:56 <Abyssul> pastebin?
Dec 22 23:32:10 <ESP> So it looks like it is mounting the filesystem readonly
Dec 22 23:33:25 <jacques> rwhitby: OK I just checked out preware/build.git
Dec 22 23:34:51 <rwhitby> jacques: take a look in unreleased/exampleservice/...
Dec 22 23:35:44 <rwhitby> ESP: if you have command line access on the device, just use http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap
Dec 22 23:37:09 <DarkSpecter> Abyssul: i like that moving background idea, but the browser seems crapy
Dec 22 23:37:24 <DarkSpecter> @nexus
Dec 22 23:38:32 <ESP> rwhitby I have command line access open now and have several instructions open (all of which fail!) can you give me the syntax before that url?
Dec 22 23:39:39 <rwhitby> ESP: cd /tmp ; wget http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap ; sh preware-bootstrap
Dec 22 23:39:59 <jacques> rwhitby: looks nice. clean. not a lot of lines of C.
Dec 22 23:41:40 <ESP> rwhitby thanks that worked!
Dec 22 23:42:13 * jacques would have used &&'s but that's OK :-)
Dec 22 23:43:09 <Abyssul> DarkSpecter: moving background?
Dec 22 23:43:17 <rwhitby> jacques: the code is copied straight from Puff's wIRCd code
Dec 22 23:43:39 <rwhitby> jacques: but feel free to fix anything in there that you think should be fixed - I want it to be a very simple C service example
Dec 22 23:44:11 <DarkSpecter> Abyssul: watch the wallpaper when he switches workspaces in the video ;)
Dec 22 23:45:13 <rwhitby> jacques: it'd be great if you can get to the point where you can build exampleservice from source and run it on your pre
Dec 22 23:46:50 <jacques> rwhitby: I will work on that tonight. I need to write my bio for my SCALE CFP submission tonight; I have been procrastinating too much on it.
Dec 22 23:46:58 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: are you interested in trying out building a C service?
Dec 22 23:47:03 <rwhitby> jacques: thx
Dec 22 23:47:27 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: let me guess, a lunity service ? ;)
Dec 22 23:47:27 <rwhitby> jacques: it's mainly so I can determine that I haven't coded any stuff in there that depends on my environment.
Dec 22 23:47:51 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: an example service first, which will eventually become a zenity service
Dec 22 23:48:22 <Mousey> jacques: get with it!
Dec 22 23:48:24 * Mousey waves fist
Dec 22 23:48:24 <jacques> rwhitby: tonight I can try 64-bit F12 and 32-bit gentoo
Dec 22 23:48:38 <jacques> Mousey: :-(        :-P
Dec 22 23:48:44 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: dont have a toolchain on this box :(
Dec 22 23:48:46 * Mousey cracks whip
Dec 22 23:49:06 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: what type of box?
Dec 22 23:49:16 <jacques> I found all the bios from previous scales, I can just copy and paste!  :-D
Dec 22 23:49:22 <rwhitby> (preware/build.git uses it's own toolchain)
Dec 22 23:49:29 <jacques> (other people's bios)
Dec 22 23:50:07 <DarkSpecter> right now a windows box, but i my laptop should be finaly back with me tomorrow so i will be able to use a better os :P
Dec 22 23:50:45 <jacques> hmm, I need to learn how to configure curl for the web proxy here. I already have wget, yum, svn, and git configured.
Dec 22 23:51:05 <jacques> curl probably uses the HTTP_PROXY env var... maybe
Dec 22 23:52:15 <rwhitby> DarkSpecter: virtualbox and ubuntu 9.10 server
Dec 22 23:52:36 <rwhitby> (if you're on a windows box)
Dec 22 23:52:57 <jacques> ALL_PROXY=http://10.0.10.2:8080/ make toolchain FTW
Dec 22 23:55:20 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: would take at least 1h to get it set up on this box, and i need to get some sleep (1am over here)
Dec 22 23:55:34 <DarkSpecter> i should be more productive starting tomorrow
Dec 22 23:55:52 * jacques stayed up until 4am last night talking to you bums.
Dec 22 23:56:37 <DarkSpecter> i need to be @work i a few hours :P
Dec 22 23:56:55 <jacques> yeah, I come in late. there is that.
Dec 22 23:57:23 * rwhitby likes the way that timezones work better for him :-)
Dec 22 23:57:38 <DarkSpecter> rwhitby: but feel free to make me help you starting tomorrow
Dec 22 23:57:43 <jacques> rwhitby: what is your build environment?
Dec 22 23:57:55 <rwhitby> jacques: ubuntu 9.10 in virtualbox on mac laptop
Dec 22 23:58:09 <DarkSpecter> nite guys
Dec 22 23:58:10 <rwhitby> autobuilder is ubuntu 8.04 LTS
Dec 22 23:58:14 <jacques> 'night DarkSpecter
Dec 22 23:58:33 <jacques> rwhitby: both 32-bit ?
Dec 22 23:58:34 <rwhitby> jacques: I try to make as much as I can in preware/build.git work natively on darwin too
Dec 22 23:58:43 <rwhitby> jacques: yeah, everything 32 bit.
Dec 22 23:58:55 <jacques> I'm half and half.
Dec 22 23:59:11 <rwhitby> actually, I tell a lie - my quad core build box is 64 bit
Dec 23 00:00:40 <jacques> my T42 is still my main laptop, but I bought a X61 tablet when lenovo was closing them out which is doing more and more. but it cannot replace the T42 because it has a low res non-flexview display.
Dec 23 00:02:06 <jacques> so now I carry two laptops just like ka6sox. but don't tell him because I gave him tons of grief for carrying two laptops in the past.
Dec 23 00:02:46 <rwhitby> I carry a MBP15" with 8GB RAM and the Pre :-)
Dec 23 00:03:48 <jacques> rwhitby: is there a preware build make target I can use to do a quick build test? the make toolchain completed
Dec 23 00:04:53 <rwhitby> jacques: just go into unreleased/exampleservice and hit make
Dec 23 00:05:13 <jacques> 'k
Dec 23 00:06:24 <jacques> "/home/packages/palm/preware-build-git-20091222/staging/armv7/usr/include/lunaservice.h:3:18: error: glib.h: No such file or directory"
Dec 23 00:06:27 <jacques> missing dep ?
Dec 23 00:06:58 <rwhitby> jacques: ah, toolchain/glib make stage
Dec 23 00:07:11 <rwhitby> (I'll add that to make toolchain)
Dec 23 00:07:45 <jacques> yeah doing the toolchain/glib make now
Dec 23 00:08:18 <rwhitby> jacques: fix pushed
Dec 23 00:08:51 <Abyssul> I wish there was a way for my PC speakers to turn down when I get a phone call or text on my Pre via wifi
Dec 23 00:09:59 <jacques> hmm, the make in toolchain/glib apparently completed successfully, but I still get the glib.h error
Dec 23 00:11:02 <rwhitby> jacques: make stage ?
Dec 23 00:11:58 <jacques> rwhitby: heh much better
Dec 23 00:12:10 <jacques> sorry I missed the stage
Dec 23 00:12:17 <rwhitby> nw
Dec 23 00:14:00 <jacques> so it looks like it built the arm6 and arm7 unreleased/exampleservice but choked on the x86 version due to standard 64/32-bit brokededness
Dec 23 00:14:15 <jacques> probably needs a couple of -m32 in there
Dec 23 00:14:53 <jacques> I've had recent experience dealing with just these issues
Dec 23 00:16:05 <jacques> it built a 32-bit /home/packages/palm/preware-build-git-20091222/staging/i686/usr/lib/liblunaservice.so and then tried to link it in 64-bit mode (looks like)
Dec 23 00:16:27 <jacques> and skips it because it's "incompatible"
Dec 23 00:17:00 <HattCzech> anyone else having network issues?
Dec 23 00:17:38 <rwhitby> jacques: if you know of a fix, please add it
Dec 23 00:20:29 <dBsooner> rwhitby: you carry a laptop with 8GB of ram?
Dec 23 00:20:38 <dBsooner> silly MBP users
Dec 23 00:20:48 * dBsooner wishes he had that kind of money.
Dec 23 00:21:56 <HattCzech> anyone else having issues with Sprint right now?
Dec 23 00:22:45 <rwhitby> dBsooner: sure do.  it runs three virtual machines usually
Dec 23 00:23:01 <rwhitby> it's a business expense
Dec 23 00:23:07 <jacques> rwhitby: this is ugly but in the i686 target in the makefile I changed CC=gcc to CC="gcc -m32" and the build completed
Dec 23 00:23:36 <rwhitby> jacques: works for me
Dec 23 00:23:49 <rwhitby> feel free to add it
Dec 23 00:24:06 <jacques> I still need to send you my public key :-\
Dec 23 00:24:39 <rwhitby> jacques: if you run the armv7 executable on your Pre, you should be able to run: luna-send -n 1 luna://org.webosinternals.exampleservice/status '{}'
Dec 23 00:25:04 <jacques> I suspect more than this one makefile needs to be fixed. I need to relocate now, going to friends' house where I have good internet. I will build everything and try to figure a more global solution
Dec 23 00:25:29 <rwhitby> jacques: does this seem like a work-able build system for the short term?
Dec 23 00:25:37 <jacques> definitely
Dec 23 00:25:37 <rwhitby> it's quite haphazard
Dec 23 00:25:52 <jacques> maybe by your standards :-)
Dec 23 00:26:04 <rwhitby> but should give the basis for autobuilding C services
Dec 23 00:26:37 <jacques> seriously, in the short term it seems like the way to go. maybe less toolchain issues this way, and the structure seems clean to me
Dec 23 00:27:16 <rwhitby> jacques: now that you understand how it works, I'm not feeling like it's a single point of failure (me) any more
Dec 23 00:28:47 <jacques> rwhitby: well I'm slowly learning. there's so much to this project.
Dec 23 00:29:13 <rwhitby> jacques: that's why you love it.  I know ;-)
Dec 23 00:29:23 <jacques> heh heh
Dec 23 00:30:00 <PuffTheMagic> DarkSpecter: ?
Dec 23 00:31:01 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: FYI, I condensed your wIRCd C service code down to a minimal exampleservice which the autobuilder is able to build.
Dec 23 00:31:52 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: it's in http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=tree;f=unreleased/exampleservice if you are interested
Dec 23 00:32:03 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: yeah i will go in there and comment it up
Dec 23 00:32:06 <PuffTheMagic> doxygen style
Dec 23 00:32:19 <PuffTheMagic> and probably add some more code for examples
Dec 23 00:32:29 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: did you happen to get anywhere with doc building?
Dec 23 00:33:51 <rwhitby> PuffTheMagic: nope.  to recap, we want to run a "make docs" target and copy that to the Trac area, right?
Dec 23 00:36:11 <jacques> biab
Dec 23 00:37:24 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: i was thinking about a variable in the autobuilder makefile represents a command to build docs (it does not need to be a make target specifically) which if non-zero would run.... the output files dont need to be copied anywhere as long as they are accessible to Trac, idealy they would be in a path accessable via http or ftp as well
Dec 23 00:38:06 <PuffTheMagic> rwhitby: the Trac part just need to know what dir they are in on the userland... which does not need write permissions, so no need to copy anything just for trac
Dec 23 00:39:24 * rwhitby bbl
Dec 23 00:42:52 <oc80z> whats good
Dec 23 01:46:13 <HattCzech> confirmed at the store that Sprint is fubared in my area
Dec 23 02:36:32 <jacques> rwhitby, I think the glib dep change in preware build broke something
Dec 23 02:44:25 <jacques> rwhitby, ah there's a missing "\" before the "staging/usr/include/glib.h" line you added to the Makefile
Dec 23 02:59:12 <zsoc> So it just came to my attention that having a touchstone very close to your  laptop is probably a bad idea.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 23 02:59:57 2009