**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 02 02:59:57 2010
Jan 02 03:00:04 <jettero> it's something they're still cooking I take it?
Jan 02 03:00:10 <Abyssul> rwhitby: Is it possible to transfer http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/222140-how-audio-record-precorder.html#post2121821 into a app with the upstart service?
Jan 02 03:00:14 <jettero> personally, I'd rather they come up with video recording before sdl
Jan 02 03:00:18 <cryptk-ppre> zsoc: thanks
Jan 02 03:00:59 <zsoc> jettero: nah it's all done, they just gotta release it
Jan 02 03:02:31 <rick_home> zsoc sdl made viewfinder work ok didn't it?  with the gstream sink splitter?
Jan 02 03:02:46 <Lumiere> zsoc: is there an updated Luna Manager for 1.3.5?
Jan 02 03:02:51 <zsoc> rick_home: yeah, but audio doesn't work, i mean it never did really
Jan 02 03:02:56 <zsoc> Lumiere: ask oil?
Jan 02 03:03:11 <zsoc> hmm.. i may have broke luna
Jan 02 03:03:16 <Lumiere> lol
Jan 02 03:03:59 <cryptk-ppre> Lumiere: luna manager from preware works fine for me...
Jan 02 03:06:29 <zsoc> aannddd i had to restart twice to get luna to load lol
Jan 02 03:07:29 <cryptk-ppre> zsoc: what did you do to it? lol
Jan 02 03:07:40 <zsoc> cryptk: not quite sure :)
Jan 02 03:08:51 <cryptk-ppre> lol
Jan 02 03:10:22 <tlp> wow, Doom on the Pre is slick.
Jan 02 03:10:32 <tlp> zsoc: any idea what was wrong with my Pre yesterday? SDL works fine now.
Jan 02 03:10:50 <zsoc> tlp: not sure really
Jan 02 03:10:51 <tlp> a bit tricky to play, but I bet I can get used to it
Jan 02 03:11:03 <zsoc> tlp: having a keybinding problem
Jan 02 03:11:04 <tlp> haha, I'm glad, because I was considering doctoring.
Jan 02 03:11:26 <tlp> what would be neat is a native WebOS Repair Tool.
Jan 02 03:13:22 <jacques> back from watching avatar in 3d
Jan 02 03:15:08 <destinal>  jacques: the movie was awesome for visuals / immersion alone
Jan 02 03:15:24 <tlp> dude, jacques
Jan 02 03:15:29 <tlp> I just got back from that. Incredible movie.
Jan 02 03:15:33 <tlp> worth every penny
Jan 02 03:15:47 <tlp> (don't skimp out on the 3D either if you haven't seen it; it is good.)
Jan 02 03:16:28 <Lumiere> cryptk-ppre: I don't see luna manager from preware
Jan 02 03:16:57 <jacques> it was amazing. truly.
Jan 02 03:17:50 <tlp> I guess some people had issues with the plot... kind of a bummer, because I enjoyed it so much. Anyway, I'll stop with the offtopic hype :)
Jan 02 03:18:14 <tlp> I wonder how quickly Doom is going to kill my battery.
Jan 02 03:18:21 <PuffTheMagic> tlp: its not like you are interrupting anything productive
Jan 02 03:18:34 <tlp> yeah
Jan 02 03:18:53 <tlp> I just want to respect rwhitby's rules
Jan 02 03:19:20 <tlp> zsoc: I think the "fire" button should be j, if that's possible.
Jan 02 03:19:26 <tlp> Sym is killing me :)
Jan 02 03:19:46 <zsoc> tlp: touch the screen
Jan 02 03:19:52 <tlp> ahh, wicked
Jan 02 03:19:55 <zsoc> unless you only have 1 hand
Jan 02 03:20:03 <tlp> I'm a lot more enthusiastic about webOS the past few days
Jan 02 03:20:03 <zsoc> in which case i'm very sorry
Jan 02 03:20:05 <tlp> hahaha
Jan 02 03:20:06 <zsoc> lol
Jan 02 03:20:16 <tlp> I played with a Droid last night and was kinda nervous.
Jan 02 03:20:21 <zsoc> eh
Jan 02 03:20:32 <tlp> not to start a flame war, but they are doing some cool things
Jan 02 03:20:42 <zsoc> sure, nothing against android
Jan 02 03:20:47 <zsoc> besides it's super closed
Jan 02 03:20:53 <tlp> yeah, which is weird
Jan 02 03:20:57 <tlp> coming from Google and all
Jan 02 03:20:59 <zsoc> I just like using my webos device, as my every day device, it's just efficient
Jan 02 03:21:06 <zsoc> tlp: google is not your friend
Jan 02 03:21:10 <destinal> tlp: well the code is open, except the stuff that isn't part of the core android
Jan 02 03:21:17 <tlp> the Pre is my first smart phone, so I have no idea how it stacks up against other things
Jan 02 03:21:24 <tlp> I'm impressed with just about every device I've tried
Jan 02 03:21:29 <destinal> tlp: but the userland on the device is nowhere near what one expects of linux
Jan 02 03:21:35 <zsoc> tlp: i agree, i come from 'no smartphone' as well
Jan 02 03:21:46 <tlp> the on-screen keyboard the Droid has is good. Ditto with the iPhone's. I can't type with our homebrew one.
Jan 02 03:21:52 <zsoc> android impresses me, but i can't hack it.
Jan 02 03:21:56 <tlp> yeah, that sucks
Jan 02 03:22:01 <tlp> I'll try to keep a list of pros and cons in mind
Jan 02 03:22:02 <cashen> I played with the Hero and Moment for 3-4 days over Christmas and hated them both.
Jan 02 03:22:08 <zsoc> and google scares the crap out of me
Jan 02 03:22:26 <tlp> they are scary... but so far I like a lot of what they've done
Jan 02 03:22:26 <zsoc> they are crawling this chat as i speak
Jan 02 03:23:19 <cashen> Google has become everything they were against when they started
Jan 02 03:23:26 <destinal> zsoc: they are crawling everything everywhere
Jan 02 03:23:45 <tlp> I like the idea of having a massive repository of knowledge, which seems to be their primary objective
Jan 02 03:23:50 <destinal> a legion of spiders
Jan 02 03:23:53 <tlp> everything should be digital
Jan 02 03:24:01 <cashen> Even people?
Jan 02 03:24:09 <DiscreetControl> google = agents
Jan 02 03:24:10 <egaudet> surrogates
Jan 02 03:24:11 <tlp> eh? I dunno :p
Jan 02 03:24:16 <tlp> Avatar!
Jan 02 03:24:22 <cashen> whoa
Jan 02 03:24:23 <destinal> nah, I like the benefits
Jan 02 03:24:26 <tlp> so much cooler than surrogates
Jan 02 03:24:31 <zsoc> tlp: they map you by address. they know your home, your work, your friends, and your phone. and share your information with their advertisers
Jan 02 03:24:43 <tlp> hm
Jan 02 03:24:56 <egaudet> avatar good?
Jan 02 03:25:23 <brit> help. My preware won't do anything after I did the webos update. What do I do??!
Jan 02 03:25:49 <zsoc> brit: reinstall the ipkgservice, run migration tool
Jan 02 03:26:49 <brit> thanks!
Jan 02 03:27:04 <tlp> egaudet: It is amazing.
Jan 02 03:29:38 <destinal> hey, what do you know, "scp -c blowfish" does significantly help speed copying to the pre.
Jan 02 03:39:07 <zsoc> I just realize i know the guy who ported quake to linux
Jan 02 03:39:11 <zsoc> i need to make a phone call
Jan 02 03:40:09 <cryptk-ppre> hahaha
Jan 02 03:40:38 <cryptk-ppre> can we handle 2 3d accel games for the pre in a week
Jan 02 03:40:42 <jauderho> I know one of the quake guys
Jan 02 03:41:57 <nfoxTc_> the doom release...is it the full game?
Jan 02 03:42:26 <cashen> Cincy is getting rolled.
Jan 02 03:42:39 <zsoc> nfoxTc_: yeah, why?
Jan 02 03:42:49 <nfoxTc_> just curious
Jan 02 03:43:01 <nfoxTc_> Still can't figure out whats wrong with preware zsoc heh
Jan 02 03:43:18 <zsoc> jauderho: which one? :D
Jan 02 03:43:24 <jauderho> ddt
Jan 02 03:43:51 <jauderho> he left id a long time ago
Jan 02 03:43:57 <zsoc> jauderho: so did zoid :)
Jan 02 03:43:58 <destinal> nfoxTc_:  if in doubt , doctor
Jan 02 03:44:10 <nfoxTc_> i did...twice
Jan 02 03:44:21 <zsoc> what?
Jan 02 03:44:25 <nfoxTc_> ever since i upgraded to 1.3.5 I keep getting ipgk errors
Jan 02 03:44:33 <destinal> nfoxTc_:  "nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. "
Jan 02 03:44:42 <nfoxTc_> when I try to install anything from preware
Jan 02 03:45:04 <zsoc> nfoxTc_: if it's happening through doctors, you are doing something wrong
Jan 02 03:45:27 <destinal> nfoxTc_: did you try doctor?
Jan 02 03:45:41 <nfoxTc_> yes, ill give you guys the error I get one sec
Jan 02 03:46:45 <nfoxTc_> Error Installing: See IPKG LOG
Jan 02 03:46:47 <nfoxTc_> then...
Jan 02 03:47:02 <Wahots> great job on doom guys - how do you change the key bindings?
Jan 02 03:47:18 <zsoc> Wahots: there are issues with that
Jan 02 03:47:25 <nfoxTc_> Failed ErrorGenericMEthodException: Failure during 'install' operation
Jan 02 03:47:40 <Wahots> oh? what issues?
Jan 02 03:48:48 <nfoxTc_> hmm let me try this with dev mode on
Jan 02 03:49:03 <nfoxTc_> brb
Jan 02 03:49:20 <zsoc> ah crap
Jan 02 03:49:28 <Wahots> maybe I can help :)
Jan 02 03:49:33 <zsoc> x86 assembly in the sdlquake port
Jan 02 03:49:39 <cryptk-ppre> you break luna again zsoc?
Jan 02 03:49:48 <zsoc> cant cross compile assembly :P
Jan 02 03:49:57 <bpadalino> zsoc, how much asm ?
Jan 02 03:50:34 <Wahots> oh the asm code is what controls key bindings?
Jan 02 03:50:36 <zsoc> bpadalino: 2k wort
Jan 02 03:50:37 <zsoc> h
Jan 02 03:50:42 <bpadalino> zsoc, what about the maemo port ?
Jan 02 03:50:43 <zsoc> Wahots: no no no not at all
Jan 02 03:50:44 <bpadalino> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/sdlquake/ ?
Jan 02 03:51:00 <zsoc> bpadalino: oh. i completely forgot about that lolo
Jan 02 03:51:05 <zsoc> bpadalino: thank you for keeping me sane
Jan 02 03:51:09 <bpadalino> np
Jan 02 03:51:34 <Wahots> ohhh quake!
Jan 02 03:52:24 <Wahots> zsoc: what was the problem then?
Jan 02 03:52:26 <acydlord> yeah, dont forget about all the maemo ports since the NITs are omaps too
Jan 02 03:53:07 <zsoc> Wahots: not sure. there are certain keys i just can't bind properly for no reason
Jan 02 03:54:21 <Wahots> zsoc: maybe I can help, but if rod couldn't figure it out yet, I may not be able to hehe
Jan 02 03:54:31 <zsoc> Wahots: no one has looked at it yet
Jan 02 03:54:54 <zsoc> Wahots: all i know is when i  bind back, it goes turbo forward, and when i bind strafeleft, it goes turbo straferight
Jan 02 03:55:23 <Wahots> ohhhh
Jan 02 03:55:24 <destinal> nfoxTc_: you can try doctoring in recovery mode
Jan 02 03:55:44 <destinal> nfoxTc_: hold down volume up while plugging in USB, it should go to a USB logo, then run doctor on your PC
Jan 02 03:55:48 <bpadalino> it would be interesting to cross compile the test programs from the libsdl palm patch ..
Jan 02 03:55:53 <bpadalino> and see what type of data you can get from it
Jan 02 03:55:59 <Wahots> weird, where is the related code?
Jan 02 03:56:13 <zsoc> bpadalino: er.. there's no real good _source_ for the maemo port
Jan 02 03:56:23 <destinal> bpadalino: I'm really not good with crosscompilation yet -- I'm going native compile on debian chroot :)
Jan 02 03:56:25 <bpadalino> zsoc, http://wardenclyffetower.com/MaemoFiles/sdlquake/sdlquake.htm - bottom of the page
Jan 02 03:56:34 <destinal> bpadalino: I find myself wrestling with ./configure
Jan 02 03:56:34 <bpadalino> destinal, hehe .. :)
Jan 02 03:56:48 <bpadalino> destinal: yeah i hear you there .. i never got the hang of it either
Jan 02 03:57:57 * destinal goes to set up reverse tunnel to apt-get upgrade on debian chroot now
Jan 02 03:59:08 <destinal> s/tunnel/tether/
Jan 02 03:59:08 <Wahots> zsoc: the last time I delt with keyboard input shit, I made a simple app that prints the scan codes and tied it to the lib I was using with my main app
Jan 02 03:59:25 <destinal> ~botsmack
Jan 02 03:59:26 <infobot> OWW!
Jan 02 04:00:34 <zsoc> Wahots: the palm sdl port has an... interesting scan code patch, and i don't know enough to make heads or tails of it
Jan 02 04:01:20 <Wahots> can you point me in the direction to look at it? :)
Jan 02 04:01:52 <zsoc> Wahots: the palm patch is on opensource.palm.com ... packages.. 135.. libsdl patch, but i'm not even sure that's the problem
Jan 02 04:02:31 <destinal> there's a test app already it seems
Jan 02 04:02:40 <Wahots> it's a good start
Jan 02 04:02:43 <bpadalino> there's a testkeys.c i think ..
Jan 02 04:02:44 <destinal> in sdl
Jan 02 04:02:55 <Wahots> great!
Jan 02 04:03:07 <zsoc> Wahots: there's a .doomrc that lets you edit mapping with ascii chars, and sdldoom src is downloadable public domain
Jan 02 04:03:52 <zsoc> bpadalino: theres a testkeys... thats unacccessable?
Jan 02 04:04:17 <bpadalino> it's part of libsdl i guess .. so it could be compiled as a test to run on the device ?
Jan 02 04:04:27 <bpadalino> if i had a cross compile setup, i'd give it a shot
Jan 02 04:04:43 <zsoc> oh, ok then ill give it a toss\
Jan 02 04:05:17 <bpadalino> there's also a testmouse.c which would be interesting too
Jan 02 04:05:35 <destinal> zsoc: you needed build-essential and what else for chroot?  been a while since I built one of these
Jan 02 04:05:46 <bpadalino> testgl too
Jan 02 04:06:11 <zsoc> destinal: what are you trying to do?
Jan 02 04:06:22 <zsoc> bpadalino: i have libsdl... i dont see these things
Jan 02 04:06:32 <bpadalino> under the test directory ?
Jan 02 04:06:54 <destinal> zsoc: installing any debi
Jan 02 04:06:54 <destinal> an
Jan 02 04:06:56 <zsoc> oh it's in the lib _source_, my bad, 1 sec i'll compile it
Jan 02 04:07:12 <zsoc> destinal: i'm confused, why would you need build-essensial to install a chroot?
Jan 02 04:07:26 <zsoc> destinal: the deb image is prebuilt
Jan 02 04:07:46 <destinal> zsoc: no, to _compile_ inside the deb
Jan 02 04:08:00 <destinal> nevermind
Jan 02 04:08:07 <destinal> I'll figure it out
Jan 02 04:08:28 <zsoc> destinal: you just need build-essential
Jan 02 04:08:31 <destinal> kk
Jan 02 04:08:37 <zsoc> destinal: and whatever libs you need for what you're building
Jan 02 04:08:42 <bpadalino> sorry - i should have been more clear :(
Jan 02 04:08:45 <zsoc> destinal: why didn't you say that to begin with :P
Jan 02 04:08:46 <zsoc> lol
Jan 02 04:09:06 <zsoc> bpadalino: nah you're good, i was the idiot that didn't draw a difference between source and developer libs :P
Jan 02 04:10:11 * zsoc builds all of the tests
Jan 02 04:10:20 <zsoc> nice little inclusion by the sdl folks
Jan 02 04:10:30 <bpadalino> yeah, and nice of palm to update their tests too
Jan 02 04:10:40 <bpadalino> remember to -DPALM when you compile
Jan 02 04:10:46 <bpadalino> and apply the patch
Jan 02 04:10:51 <zsoc> its like a mini conformance test
Jan 02 04:11:03 <zsoc> bpadalino: palm didn't update testkeys
Jan 02 04:11:08 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 04:11:12 <bpadalino> not that one, but testmouse they did
Jan 02 04:11:16 <bpadalino> that looks like an interesting one too
Jan 02 04:12:12 <zsoc> hmmm.. ill need it for testmouse yes
Jan 02 04:12:22 <zsoc> ill just cut that part of the patch for the test files
Jan 02 04:13:10 <bpadalino> neat
Jan 02 04:15:55 <destinal> zsoc: or you could download libsdl and the patch from palm and extract the sdl and apply the patch, then you'll have everything in the proper c files :)
Jan 02 04:16:58 <zsoc> testkeys works
Jan 02 04:17:02 <zsoc> all seems right too
Jan 02 04:17:13 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 02 04:17:31 <zsoc> how does patching work again? patch folder/ patchfile.patch ?
Jan 02 04:18:09 <ird> awesome
Jan 02 04:18:21 <ird> there's already an upstart service :D
Jan 02 04:18:37 <destinal> zcat libsdl-1.2-patch.gz | patch -p0
Jan 02 04:18:52 <bpadalino>  patch -p0 < patch-file-name-here
Jan 02 04:18:57 <bpadalino> or what destinal said
Jan 02 04:19:20 <destinal> mine is only if you're too lazy to gunzip the patch first :)
Jan 02 04:19:23 <zsoc> ooo... patch in the compressed form lol
Jan 02 04:19:24 <zsoc> fancy
Jan 02 04:19:43 <zsoc> bpadalino: what is the -dpalm you speak of?
Jan 02 04:19:50 <bpadalino> -DPALM when you compile ..
Jan 02 04:19:56 <bpadalino> so you get the #ifdef PALM
Jan 02 04:20:02 <destinal> bpadalino: add it to EXTRAFLAGS in the Makefile
Jan 02 04:20:04 <destinal> of sdl
Jan 02 04:20:10 <bpadalino> do what destinal says
Jan 02 04:20:11 <bpadalino> he knows
Jan 02 04:20:16 <destinal> EXTRA_CFLAGS
Jan 02 04:20:20 <zsoc> hm ok
Jan 02 04:20:26 <destinal> = whatever ...    -DPALM
Jan 02 04:20:33 <zsoc> destinal: can't i just set that as an environmental variable?
Jan 02 04:20:49 <zsoc> EXTRA_CFLAGS="-DPALM" make ?
Jan 02 04:20:52 <ird> zsoc: would it be possible to use the accelerometer to move around in doom?
Jan 02 04:20:53 <destinal> no
Jan 02 04:21:08 <destinal> makefile vars aren't environment vars
Jan 02 04:21:18 <bpadalino> ird, with some hacking of the doom code yeah .. the sdl code has accelerometer stuff in it ..
Jan 02 04:21:37 <zsoc> ird: maybe. but if i get that to work. then i'd rather use touchscreen for looking left/right
Jan 02 04:21:44 <bpadalino> hrmm ..
Jan 02 04:23:45 <destinal> ird: I'd use accelerometer for *strafing* left / right
Jan 02 04:23:52 <destinal> looking, do on the screen
Jan 02 04:24:26 <bpadalino> i am not sure what type of events you get from the hidd about the accelerator ..
Jan 02 04:24:32 <bpadalino> if it's granular like that or whatnot
Jan 02 04:24:48 <destinal> granular?
Jan 02 04:25:17 <bpadalino> destinal: nevermind - it appears as the joystick input which you can poll
Jan 02 04:25:35 <zsoc> bpadalino: is that true? i thought that but I dont understand all of the patch
Jan 02 04:25:47 <zsoc> i must admit, i am no hacker extraordinaire :(
Jan 02 04:25:49 <destinal> the joystick is accelerometer and haptic then I guess
Jan 02 04:25:50 <bpadalino> zsoc, yeah .. look at line 9562 of the patch
Jan 02 04:26:07 <bpadalino> +	if (joystick->index == 0) {
Jan 02 04:26:07 <bpadalino> +		joystick->naxes = 3;
Jan 02 04:26:09 <bpadalino> +		joystick->nhats = 0;
Jan 02 04:26:11 <bpadalino> +		joystick->nballs = 0;
Jan 02 04:26:13 <bpadalino> +		joystick->nbuttons = 0;
Jan 02 04:26:15 <bpadalino> +		joystick->name  = accelerometerName;
Jan 02 04:26:17 <bpadalino> +		return 0;
Jan 02 04:26:18 <destinal> ah
Jan 02 04:26:19 <bpadalino> +	}
Jan 02 04:26:21 <bpadalino> sorry for the semi large paste ..
Jan 02 04:26:23 <bpadalino> but it says 3 axes, and nothingelse ..
Jan 02 04:26:38 <zsoc> bpadalino: ah, a 3 axis joystick
Jan 02 04:26:38 <zsoc> lol
Jan 02 04:26:43 <bpadalino> yes
Jan 02 04:26:43 <bpadalino> :)
Jan 02 04:26:45 <zsoc> i notcied that before i even came back
Jan 02 04:26:52 <zsoc> maybe i am the hacker extraordinaire after all
Jan 02 04:26:55 <zsoc> xD
Jan 02 04:27:25 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 02 04:28:37 <oc80z> whats good rwhitby
Jan 02 04:28:42 <oc80z> hi zsoc
Jan 02 04:29:00 <zsoc> oc80z: yo
Jan 02 04:29:51 <tmzt> what's with using joystick for accels?
Jan 02 04:30:05 <tmzt> they should be evdev's with x and z I think
Jan 02 04:30:07 <bpadalino> using accelerometer for joystick :)
Jan 02 04:31:14 <zsoc> patched and compiling sdl tests
Jan 02 04:31:33 <bpadalino> neato
Jan 02 04:31:36 <zsoc> bpadalino: wait, so shouldnt just turning on the joystick make it work?
Jan 02 04:31:44 <bpadalino> zsoc, possibly ?
Jan 02 04:31:50 <tmzt> doesn't hidd grab devices?
Jan 02 04:31:59 <bpadalino> tmzt, this apparently talks to hidd
Jan 02 04:32:11 <zsoc> tmzt: there's this 'event' thing going on in palms patches that seems to handle each uid properly
Jan 02 04:32:22 <tmzt> uid?
Jan 02 04:32:26 <zsoc> er, hid
Jan 02 04:32:30 <tmzt> ah
Jan 02 04:32:32 <tmzt> right
Jan 02 04:32:39 <zsoc> user GENERALLY = human ;)
Jan 02 04:32:41 <bpadalino> HibLib.h
Jan 02 04:32:45 <bpadalino> HidLib.h rather
Jan 02 04:32:56 <bpadalino> which we don't seem to have ?
Jan 02 04:32:58 <tmzt> zsoc: yes, but I'm thinking permissions when you say uid
Jan 02 04:33:01 <bpadalino> +#include "hid/IncsPublic/HidLib.h"
Jan 02 04:33:08 <zsoc> tmzt: that i understand lol
Jan 02 04:33:17 <zsoc> bpadalino: toss that in doom somewhere? :P
Jan 02 04:33:28 <tmzt> so doom now, X later?
Jan 02 04:33:36 <zsoc> why x?
Jan 02 04:33:38 <tmzt> this using overlays thing is pretty cool
Jan 02 04:33:41 <zsoc> luna is awesome
Jan 02 04:33:50 <tmzt> get it figured out on 1.3.5?
Jan 02 04:33:52 <zsoc> direct fb access ftw
Jan 02 04:33:59 <tmzt> directfb is just fbdev
Jan 02 04:34:02 <tmzt> nothing special
Jan 02 04:34:08 <zsoc> er, it's not really directfb
Jan 02 04:34:14 <tmzt> can't even work with luna to handle contention/compositing
Jan 02 04:34:26 <zsoc> OH you mean luna
Jan 02 04:34:27 <zsoc> right
Jan 02 04:34:44 <Wahots> zsoc: Ok I looked at the code, funny enough I was right kinda - search the patch for "FIXME" - Palm did a half ass job with the mapping so you are essentially running in to bitmap wierdness
Jan 02 04:34:51 <zsoc> but sdl is using fb console, which in this case is a custom written opensource palm kernel frambuffer driver
Jan 02 04:35:02 <tmzt> it's not using fb console
Jan 02 04:35:04 <zsoc> Wahots: you seem like the man for the job
Jan 02 04:35:06 <tmzt> fb console is a text console
Jan 02 04:35:20 <tmzt> it seems to not be in /sys/class/graphics so I'm guessing it's disabled
Jan 02 04:35:25 <tmzt> in Palm's kernel
Jan 02 04:35:37 <Wahots> zsoc: fine with me, other then the two glasses of wine I've had haha - but ya I can fix this
Jan 02 04:35:41 <tmzt> fb console (fbcon) is a text console rendering on a framebuffer memory device
Jan 02 04:35:45 <tmzt> (fbdev)
Jan 02 04:35:50 <zsoc> tmzt: yes and ?
Jan 02 04:36:05 <tmzt> 20:16 <+zsoc> but sdl is using fb console, which in this case is a custom  written opensource palm kernel frambuffer driver
Jan 02 04:36:07 <zsoc> it's not disable
Jan 02 04:36:10 <tmzt> and that's not correct
Jan 02 04:36:17 <zsoc> tmzt: sdl is using fbcon, i can't make it up
Jan 02 04:36:19 <tmzt> fbcon is disabled (not in sysfs)
Jan 02 04:36:26 <zsoc> it's virtual
Jan 02 04:36:27 <tmzt> it's not, it's using the underlying fbdev
Jan 02 04:36:31 <tmzt> hmm?
Jan 02 04:36:44 <tmzt> it's using a secondary /dev/fb1
Jan 02 04:36:51 <Wahots> only thing that sucks is that libsdl will need to be recompiled and I guess a "patch" will need to be made which will be a dependency for sdl apps
Jan 02 04:36:53 <tmzt> which is hardware overlay I think, somehow rgb
Jan 02 04:37:00 <bpadalino> neat ..
Jan 02 04:37:04 <tmzt> SDL abi should not change
Jan 02 04:37:11 <bpadalino> virtual size of fb1 is 320x1440 ..
Jan 02 04:37:23 <tmzt> okay, but that's still not a fbcon
Jan 02 04:37:36 <tmzt> fbdev - the framebuffer device
Jan 02 04:37:43 <tmzt> fbcon - a console over top of the fbdev
Jan 02 04:37:47 <zsoc> tmzt: then it's a misnomer. all SDL docs refer to fb access as fbcon
Jan 02 04:37:51 <tmzt> the binding changed in a recent kernel
Jan 02 04:37:58 <jacques> bpadalino, for offscreen rendering?
Jan 02 04:38:03 <tmzt> zsoc: what SDL docs, specific to Palm?
Jan 02 04:38:15 <bpadalino> jacques: not sure .. i guess so ?
Jan 02 04:38:18 <bpadalino> or for scrolling ?
Jan 02 04:38:24 <zsoc> tmzt: no, specific to anywhere in the sdl dev community
Jan 02 04:38:26 <tmzt> hopefully offscreen
Jan 02 04:38:31 <jacques> and/of multibuffering maybe
Jan 02 04:38:39 <zsoc> tmzt: if you export SDL_VIDEODRIVER to anything BUT fbcon, it doesn't work :P
Jan 02 04:38:40 <tmzt> zsoc: hmm, that seems wrong
Jan 02 04:38:42 <bpadalino> they did say they want to do triple buffering (n their comments)
Jan 02 04:38:46 <tmzt> can you give me a link?
Jan 02 04:38:47 <dtzWill> Wahots, tmzt: any reason you'd install this new sdl /over/ the old one? seems unnecessarily dangerous
Jan 02 04:38:57 <bpadalino> so maybe that's it since 1440/3 = 480 ?
Jan 02 04:39:34 <bpadalino> zsoc, what does testgl do when you run it ?
Jan 02 04:39:41 <Wahots> dtzWill: all I'm doing is fixing their broken keymapping, they did a half ass job and even have a "FIXME" in their patch since they likely didn't plan to use the library yet
Jan 02 04:39:42 <tmzt> from console?
Jan 02 04:39:50 <zsoc> tmzt: http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_envvars
Jan 02 04:40:04 <Wahots> replacing it wouldn't be dangerous
Jan 02 04:40:10 <zsoc> tmzt: i'm thinking... maybe it's just a hook palm uses.
Jan 02 04:40:19 <dtzWill> Wahots: understood, sorry if i misunderstand you--the talk of abi potential changes sounded like you were replacin it
Jan 02 04:40:24 <zsoc> Wahots: not dangerous, complicated to distribute :p
Jan 02 04:40:25 <tmzt> http://linux-fbdev.sourceforge.net/
Jan 02 04:40:35 <tmzt> hmm, this goes back to before kernel inclusion
Jan 02 04:40:36 <zsoc> tmzt: yes i saw that :)
Jan 02 04:40:40 <zsoc> hmm
Jan 02 04:40:48 <Wahots> zsoc: ya, thats what I'm trying to figure out how it would be done - binary patch? hehe
Jan 02 04:40:50 <zsoc> tmzt: ok then
Jan 02 04:40:58 <dtzWill> Wahots: haha okay--just seemed 'simpler' to have the preware sdl apps use the 'fixed' one etc
Jan 02 04:41:05 <zsoc> Wahots: I would love it. bsdiff is available. rod would freakout tho
Jan 02 04:41:05 <dtzWill> Wahots: shrug
Jan 02 04:41:12 <tmzt> zsoc: they used a historical name and didn't change it for compatibility
Jan 02 04:41:17 <tmzt> but current usage is fbdev
Jan 02 04:41:20 <jacques> if necessary we can distribute modified libs and put them earlier in the link path
Jan 02 04:41:24 <zsoc> tmzt: ok then, everyone is right but me :) i will fix my vocabularly
Jan 02 04:41:27 <Wahots> thats ok, rod knows I'm a little crazy :P
Jan 02 04:41:43 <Wahots> but Palm is using bsdiff for updates now, so why not?
Jan 02 04:41:49 <zsoc> Wahots: er, bspatch rather, it's in webos as of 131
Jan 02 04:41:51 <zsoc> right
Jan 02 04:41:52 <dtzWill> jacques: that's what i was suggesting, not out of necessity but simplicity/safety
Jan 02 04:42:01 <jacques> dtzWill, I agree with you.
Jan 02 04:42:07 <tmzt> Wahots: yeah, will ipkg ever support that?
Jan 02 04:42:11 <dtzWill> jacques: :) kk
Jan 02 04:42:22 <zsoc> Ok. what tests am i running?
Jan 02 04:42:25 <Wahots> tmzt: don't ask me, I don't write ipkg :P
Jan 02 04:42:33 <tmzt> so where does this gltest run?
Jan 02 04:42:35 <bpadalino> zsoc, you could run the mouse test .. or the gl test
Jan 02 04:42:36 <tmzt> testgl
Jan 02 04:42:42 <zsoc> I've tried to have the binary patching conversation, rod doesn't want to have it.
Jan 02 04:42:43 <tmzt> from the command line?
Jan 02 04:42:56 <bpadalino> tmzt, yeah - they are tests included in the sdl lib ..
Jan 02 04:43:06 <bpadalino> palm has updated some of them to work with their patches .
Jan 02 04:43:11 <zsoc> o i broke it
Jan 02 04:43:15 <tmzt> hmm, cool
Jan 02 04:43:16 <bpadalino> whoops
Jan 02 04:43:21 <tmzt> so there's a proper gl driver in 1.3.5?
Jan 02 04:43:24 <tmzt> for the sgx?
Jan 02 04:43:35 <bpadalino> there is also a whitebox directory
Jan 02 04:43:46 <bpadalino> tmzt, not sure .. was just wondering what happened when that was all built up!
Jan 02 04:43:48 <bpadalino> :)
Jan 02 04:43:50 <Wahots> zsoc: if you don't get to the patch by tomorrow, I'll work on it - I just don't want to work on it when I'm having to excessively use backspace to communicate haha
Jan 02 04:43:59 <zsoc> Wahots: lol its cool
Jan 02 04:44:09 <zsoc> tmzt: yes
Jan 02 04:44:19 <zsoc> tmzt: if you have 135, lsmod :)
Jan 02 04:44:25 <tmzt> I don't have a Pre
Jan 02 04:44:29 <tmzt> what's the driver called?
Jan 02 04:44:30 <zsoc> oh
Jan 02 04:44:39 <Wahots> zsoc: have they put ping/traceroute in yet?
Jan 02 04:44:41 <bpadalino> pvrsvrkm or something ?
Jan 02 04:44:46 <zsoc> tmzt: pvrsrvkm
Jan 02 04:45:00 <destinal> ah
Jan 02 04:45:02 <bpadalino> powervr server/service kernel module ?
Jan 02 04:45:04 <bpadalino> something like that
Jan 02 04:45:04 <destinal> we're missing a little bit more
Jan 02 04:45:10 <zsoc> destinal: ?
Jan 02 04:45:10 <bpadalino> destinal: oh yeah ?
Jan 02 04:45:20 <destinal> in the configure we need to --enable-webos=yes
Jan 02 04:45:34 <zsoc> destinal: crap ok, doing it now
Jan 02 04:45:34 <tmzt> are they driving it from the dsp or something?
Jan 02 04:45:37 <bpadalino> --enable-haptic=yes too!
Jan 02 04:45:43 <tmzt> what do they mean by server?
Jan 02 04:45:46 <zsoc> tmzt: powervr is the gpu...
Jan 02 04:45:47 <destinal> that would take care of the DPALM stuff
Jan 02 04:45:50 <bpadalino> tmzt, not sure ..
Jan 02 04:45:51 <destinal> no need to edit the makefile
Jan 02 04:45:52 <tmzt> zsoc: I know
Jan 02 04:45:56 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 04:45:58 <destinal> it also gets the libraries it depends on
Jan 02 04:46:01 <zsoc> destinal: you mean _instead_ of dpalm, or AND?
Jan 02 04:46:02 <destinal> Piranha for one
Jan 02 04:46:05 <destinal> instead of
Jan 02 04:46:09 <bpadalino> destinal is an elite hacker
Jan 02 04:46:09 <zsoc> tmzt: wel you seem to know things, to keep explaining :)
Jan 02 04:46:15 <tmzt> -DPALM as in define Palm
Jan 02 04:46:28 <destinal> tmzt: right, it defines PALM
Jan 02 04:46:34 <tmzt> zsoc: explaining what? I just mean I know what powervr/pvr is
Jan 02 04:46:37 <bpadalino> destinal: you mean headers ?
Jan 02 04:46:38 <tmzt> PALM
Jan 02 04:46:40 <destinal> and changes the link flags
Jan 02 04:46:43 <zsoc> tmzt: your dsp comment
Jan 02 04:46:49 <tmzt> it's a guess
Jan 02 04:47:00 <tmzt> if they use the dsp arm to driver pvr/sgx that's interesting
Jan 02 04:47:04 <tmzt> gets around a few issues
Jan 02 04:47:11 <tmzt> but creates new ones
Jan 02 04:47:38 <tmzt> 2.1M gzipped :)
Jan 02 04:48:03 <zsoc> ok lets try this again
Jan 02 04:48:15 <destinal> rwhitby: I was wrong on the -DPALM, you don't need to set that manually, you DO need to --enable-webos
Jan 02 04:48:17 <destinal> in configure
Jan 02 04:49:00 <bpadalino> sounds like we'll be missing a couple more headers
Jan 02 04:49:08 <destinal> zsoc: and you'll need to copy the libs it needs to link to into your build system
Jan 02 04:49:23 <zsoc> destinal: i didn't have a problem building. what libs?
Jan 02 04:49:42 <destinal> zsoc: you wouldn't have a problem building, you would have a problem linking the sdl lib if you ever tried
Jan 02 04:49:56 <destinal> bpadalino: I think we're good for headers
Jan 02 04:50:03 <bpadalino> ah ok
Jan 02 04:50:10 <bpadalino> i thought HidLib.h we'd need
Jan 02 04:50:16 <destinal> bpadalino: mainly because it didn't fail to build
Jan 02 04:50:20 <destinal> bpadalino: only link
Jan 02 04:50:20 <zsoc> testmouse is amazing
Jan 02 04:50:24 <bpadalino> ah cool
Jan 02 04:50:24 <zsoc> someone go testmouse
Jan 02 04:50:32 <bpadalino> zsoc, amazing ?
Jan 02 04:50:36 <bpadalino> multiple fingers and all ?
Jan 02 04:50:45 <Wahots> zsoc: you guys are working on quake?
Jan 02 04:50:47 <zsoc> bpadalino: 5 finger discount
Jan 02 04:50:50 <bpadalino> wowzers
Jan 02 04:50:56 <zsoc> I have never had so much fun in my life
Jan 02 04:50:58 <zsoc> we need to package this
Jan 02 04:51:01 <bpadalino> haha
Jan 02 04:51:01 <zsoc> it's the best game ever
Jan 02 04:51:06 <bpadalino> package the test application
Jan 02 04:51:07 <bpadalino> :P
Jan 02 04:51:13 <Wahots> lol
Jan 02 04:51:22 <zsoc> YOU CAN MOVE 5 MICE POINTERS AT ONCE
Jan 02 04:51:28 <zsoc> i can barely fit 5 fingers on my screen
Jan 02 04:51:38 <zsoc> destinal: go build it, you're basically there
Jan 02 04:52:09 <zsoc> still can't get anything GL to work
Jan 02 04:52:10 <egaudet> so if they are using hidd stuff in libsdl, that will give us what we need to start getting into it destinal
Jan 02 04:52:17 <destinal> zsoc: I'm doing the official way (./configure && make && make install && cd test && ./configure && make ) etc
Jan 02 04:52:34 <zsoc> including sdlgears or testgl
Jan 02 04:52:41 <zsoc> destinal: good good :) do testmouse first lol
Jan 02 04:52:50 <bpadalino> zsoc, does testgl error out ?
Jan 02 04:53:02 <zsoc> bpadalino: the same way anything gl seems to.. missing apis
Jan 02 04:53:16 <zsoc> bpadalino: well techincally there' no libgl.. it's build into libsdl
Jan 02 04:53:18 <destinal> GL is basically not there the way GL-ES is
Jan 02 04:53:36 <destinal> right?
Jan 02 04:53:43 <zsoc> sort of
Jan 02 04:53:47 <zsoc> It's a problem with me tho
Jan 02 04:53:52 <zsoc> linking my libraries wrong
Jan 02 04:54:00 <destinal> zsoc: ah, maybe my system will be happy
Jan 02 04:54:01 <zsoc> because what it's complaining isn't defined is definitely defined
Jan 02 04:54:01 * Wahots pokes zsoc 
Jan 02 04:54:07 <zsoc> destinal: yes i bet it will
Jan 02 04:54:09 <zsoc> Wahots: wat?
Jan 02 04:54:18 <Wahots> ya'll working on quake?
Jan 02 04:54:30 <destinal> Wahots: we're working on understanding the library first :)
Jan 02 04:54:42 <zsoc> Wahots: er, sort of. it's complicated. i can't port sdlquake directly because it uses x86 assembly code
Jan 02 04:54:49 <bpadalino> there is a libGLESv2.so
Jan 02 04:54:49 <zsoc> Wahots: so i'm poking through the maemo port
Jan 02 04:54:54 <Wahots> ah thats what you were saying
Jan 02 04:55:05 <zsoc> bpadalino: yeah, i symlinked against libglesv2
Jan 02 04:55:10 <Wahots> so someone needs to write new asm
Jan 02 04:55:13 <bpadalino> so it should work i think ?
Jan 02 04:55:16 <zsoc> bpadalino: but i think there's more stuff.. er.. in the other one
Jan 02 04:55:40 <destinal> zsoc: so the reason you thought we were missing stuff at first is you didn't --enable-webos
Jan 02 04:55:51 <destinal> and I saw the ifdef's and missed where configure sets it
Jan 02 04:55:53 <bpadalino> zsoc: did you copy over icon.bmp ?
Jan 02 04:55:59 <bpadalino> since itneeds that to run as well
Jan 02 04:56:04 <zsoc> bpadalino: huh?
Jan 02 04:56:11 <egaudet> :D SDL_WebOsEvent.c
Jan 02 04:56:16 <bpadalino> testgl needs that icon.bmp in the test directory
Jan 02 04:56:21 <zsoc> egaudet: yes, it's all so sexy
Jan 02 04:56:35 <zsoc> bpadalino: not my issue, but it will be once i fix this one lol
Jan 02 04:56:46 <bpadalino> oh, what issue do you have ?
Jan 02 04:57:34 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: /usr/lib/libOMX.TI.AAC.encode.so
Jan 02 04:57:42 <zsoc> bpadalino: missing opengl APIs
Jan 02 04:58:20 <bpadalino> libGLES_CM.so also has good stuff in it for GL ..
Jan 02 04:58:23 <destinal> ugh, still not wanting to link piranha etc
Jan 02 04:58:37 <bpadalino> like glPushMatrix
Jan 02 04:58:42 <bpadalino> destinal: :(
Jan 02 04:58:43 <egaudet> where is HidLib.h
Jan 02 04:58:48 <bpadalino> egaudet: i couldn't find it
Jan 02 04:58:55 <zsoc> bpadalino: yes that's what i need
Jan 02 04:58:59 * zsoc thinks
Jan 02 04:59:04 <tmzt> is SDL using RGB or YV12 on the overlay?
Jan 02 04:59:06 <egaudet> Well we won't get it I don't think
Jan 02 04:59:18 <egaudet> It's part of their closed hidd stuff?
Jan 02 04:59:25 <bpadalino> egaudet: i think so ..
Jan 02 04:59:36 <tmzt> it says it's in the Public headers doesn't it?
Jan 02 04:59:37 <bpadalino> egaudet: depends on exactly what we need from it tho ..
Jan 02 05:00:16 <egaudet> Looks like mainly we'll need HidHandle_t
Jan 02 05:00:40 <destinal> egaudet: so I don't get why my build doesn't fail then.. odd.
Jan 02 05:00:49 <destinal> it should if it is needed
Jan 02 05:00:53 <zsoc> I have libGLESv2 linked to libGL
Jan 02 05:01:00 <bpadalino> destinal: it's just pointers ?
Jan 02 05:01:02 <jacques> where does piranha come from?
Jan 02 05:01:07 <egaudet> destinal, are you building in Palm's stuff?
Jan 02 05:01:08 <bpadalino> jacques: inside of palm
Jan 02 05:01:17 <jacques> ah
Jan 02 05:01:19 <destinal> jacques: piranha is a closed source palm graphics framework
Jan 02 05:01:31 <jacques> good to know
Jan 02 05:01:40 <Wahots> ok I'm going to wander off and finish my bottle of wine, good night all!
Jan 02 05:01:59 <jacques> `night Wahots
Jan 02 05:02:37 <zsoc> Ok. someone help me think this out.
Jan 02 05:02:47 <bpadalino> whats up zsoc ?
Jan 02 05:02:51 <zsoc> Palm patches an sdl libgl test
Jan 02 05:03:01 <rwhitby> oc80z: tried DOOM?
Jan 02 05:03:03 <zsoc> but doesn't stop it from including libGL.so.1
Jan 02 05:03:15 <zsoc> which doesn't exist
Jan 02 05:03:16 <zsoc> what
Jan 02 05:03:37 <destinal> rwhitby: so I'm building *something* but it doesn't quite match what palm distributes,  it doesn't link to needed .so libs from palm and thus leaves unresolved symbols
Jan 02 05:03:49 <destinal> trying to figure out if --enable-webos is enough
Jan 02 05:04:27 <bpadalino> i'd guess --enable-webos should be enough ..
Jan 02 05:04:37 <bpadalino> why can't you link against piranha ?
Jan 02 05:04:43 <destinal> and others are bringing up the fact that certain headers are #include'd that we don't have, yet my build isn't failing
Jan 02 05:04:59 <bpadalino> destinal: and i t hink it's because all references are just pointers ..
Jan 02 05:05:02 <egaudet> ahh hmm I'm looking at standalone mode stuff but that doesnt look to be used by enable-webos
Jan 02 05:05:03 <bpadalino> with no deallocations ..
Jan 02 05:05:08 <bpadalino> rather
Jan 02 05:05:10 <bpadalino> dereferences
Jan 02 05:05:13 <zsoc> oh its a build issue
Jan 02 05:05:26 <zsoc> SDL_opengl.h i'm sure is suppose to be patched
Jan 02 05:05:37 <bpadalino> i don't need to  know what's inside a structure if i am just passing around pointers
Jan 02 05:05:54 <egaudet> what's napp?
Jan 02 05:05:57 <zsoc> hm, no it isnt
Jan 02 05:05:57 <destinal> bpadalino: true, so you think maybe the #include was redundant
Jan 02 05:06:05 <bpadalino> destinal: possibly
Jan 02 05:06:22 <zsoc> destinal: are you building ok? i need to see if my problem is environmental
Jan 02 05:06:55 <bpadalino> destinal: so what other issues are you having trouble with?
Jan 02 05:06:56 <destinal> zsoc: I'm building ok, it's just that something in the make process isn't linking palm's libs (they're not even here so I can be sure of that) :)
Jan 02 05:07:20 <zsoc> interesting
Jan 02 05:07:32 <bpadalino> hrm .. so when you -lPiranha, the system doesn't know what that means ?
Jan 02 05:07:55 <destinal> bpadalino: I mean that whatever line is making SDL isn't  doing a -lPiranha by all appearances
Jan 02 05:08:14 <egaudet> libnapp.so is that a Palm specific library?
Jan 02 05:08:15 <destinal> and since it's a .so  not all symbols really need to be resolved before run time
Jan 02 05:08:18 <destinal> link at run
Jan 02 05:08:29 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 05:09:16 <bpadalino> libnapp.so looks very palm specific
Jan 02 05:09:22 <bpadalino> IPC stuff
Jan 02 05:09:34 <bpadalino> and LSHandle stuff
Jan 02 05:10:04 <tmzt> doesn't IPC wrap dbus?
Jan 02 05:10:08 <egaudet> that's what they are using for the event stuff in the default "integrated" mode it looks like.  They use hidd for standalone mode
Jan 02 05:10:19 <zsoc> test apps are so fun
Jan 02 05:10:26 <tmzt> destinal: though you had all the surface stuff figured out, what is LSHandle?
Jan 02 05:10:45 <tmzt> egaudet: what are integrated/standalone modes?
Jan 02 05:11:05 <egaudet> looking at the sdl stuff
Jan 02 05:11:12 <destinal> root@castle:/# ipkg info libnapp|grep -i dep
Jan 02 05:11:12 <destinal> Depends: codesourcery-arm (>= 2007q3), luna-service (>= 1.0.0), luna-sysmgr-ipc (>= 1.0)
Jan 02 05:11:53 <destinal> root@castle:/# echo `ipkg files libnapp|grep -v P`
Jan 02 05:11:53 <destinal> /etc/event.d/nappmgr /usr/bin/nappmgr /usr/lib/libnapp.so
Jan 02 05:12:52 <destinal> root@castle:/# cat /etc/event.d/nappmgr
Jan 02 05:12:53 <destinal> # nappmgr
Jan 02 05:12:53 <destinal> # manages fb1 video layer and other resources that might be left hanging by a terminated game
Jan 02 05:13:01 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 02 05:13:10 <tmzt> this is from Palm?
Jan 02 05:13:15 <destinal> yup
Jan 02 05:13:16 <tmzt> they are supporting this stuff then?
Jan 02 05:13:20 <tmzt> (games)
Jan 02 05:13:25 <bpadalino> yeah
Jan 02 05:13:27 <zsoc> lol testcursor crashes luna. it starts a cursor. the patch stops it. test util starts it. patched libs stop it. over and over. until poof.
Jan 02 05:13:29 <tmzt> nice
Jan 02 05:13:33 <rwhitby> tmzt: what you do think they are going to announce at CES?
Jan 02 05:13:42 <rwhitby> games man, games.
Jan 02 05:13:44 <tmzt> rwhitby: no clue
Jan 02 05:13:47 <destinal> description     "Native app manager"
Jan 02 05:13:49 <tmzt> but using the overlay?
Jan 02 05:13:52 <tmzt> cool
Jan 02 05:13:53 <bpadalino> hey now!
Jan 02 05:13:59 <tmzt> plugins still?
Jan 02 05:14:08 <egaudet> ooooh
Jan 02 05:14:16 <destinal> - /usr/bin/nappmgr is a daemon
Jan 02 05:14:18 <egaudet> Native App Manager :p
Jan 02 05:14:32 <destinal> it's running on my pre, dunno about yours
Jan 02 05:14:36 <tmzt> I see that, how does luna coordinate with overlay'd graphics?
Jan 02 05:14:42 <zsoc> Ok. I can't get anything GL to work
Jan 02 05:14:46 <egaudet> yea it's running on mine
Jan 02 05:14:52 <tmzt> I didn't know dispc supports argb overlays
Jan 02 05:15:09 <bpadalino> zsoc, hrmm .. what are your errors ?
Jan 02 05:15:09 <zsoc> tmzt: luna seems to just stuff the surface in a card. prolly some mojo magic
Jan 02 05:15:16 <zsoc> bpadalino: many and varying.
Jan 02 05:15:20 <destinal> rwhitby: so you know how when you throw away the DOOM card the process gets killed and all is well?  I think we have nappmgr to thank
Jan 02 05:15:20 <bpadalino> paste online ?
Jan 02 05:15:33 <bpadalino> destinal: indeed it seems that way
Jan 02 05:15:40 <rwhitby> cool
Jan 02 05:15:45 <tmzt> are you sending it the pid or is it getting it from the pipe?
Jan 02 05:15:54 <egaudet> NApp_SetOrientation
Jan 02 05:15:54 <tmzt> are you dieing on -EPIPE ?
Jan 02 05:16:06 <tmzt> so X is possible then?
Jan 02 05:16:21 <destinal> tmzt: sure, why not?
Jan 02 05:16:29 <rwhitby> so, how are we going to autobuild this stuff?
Jan 02 05:16:42 <destinal> rwhitby: first we need to *build* this stuff *at all*  :)
Jan 02 05:16:46 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 02 05:16:56 <bpadalino> destinal: what errors are you running into ?
Jan 02 05:17:19 <tmzt> destinal: nice, I'm happy to help as always, but I think you have it
Jan 02 05:17:38 <tmzt> would so like to see you guys able to use abiword or whatever other apps
Jan 02 05:17:57 <zsoc> destinal: testsprite is also amazing
Jan 02 05:17:59 <zsoc> lol
Jan 02 05:18:02 <destinal> bpadalino: don't have the error but it's a runtime error
Jan 02 05:18:09 <destinal> not build or link
Jan 02 05:18:10 <zsoc> and runs at 70fps
Jan 02 05:18:14 <destinal> well runtime link
Jan 02 05:18:15 <bpadalino> destinal: what's the runtime error ?
Jan 02 05:18:35 <egaudet> destinal, what are you using for an arm userland to build
Jan 02 05:18:38 <destinal> that it's missing symbols from piranha and hidd, essentially
Jan 02 05:19:05 <destinal> because it doesn't add them to libsdl's link specifications
Jan 02 05:19:07 <egaudet> piranha and napp not hidd right
Jan 02 05:19:08 <bpadalino> destinal: hrmm .. there is a loader environement variable you can set, isnt there ?
Jan 02 05:19:16 <destinal> err, yeah
Jan 02 05:19:34 <zsoc> hm, testwin broke my topbar
Jan 02 05:20:08 <bpadalino> ldconfig or something ?
Jan 02 05:20:35 <destinal> root@castle:/# echo `strings /usr/lib/libSDL.so |grep \.so$`
Jan 02 05:20:35 <destinal> libnapp.so libPiranha.so libpalmvibe.so libEGL.so /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so libGLES_CM.so
Jan 02 05:20:38 <destinal> that's the real one
Jan 02 05:20:47 <destinal> mine doesn't have those first few
Jan 02 05:20:59 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 05:21:12 <bpadalino> so yours doesn't try to load it up ?
Jan 02 05:21:28 <destinal> right, doesn't even know to try, so the symbols don't resolve
Jan 02 05:21:49 <destinal> so I need to find where the library is getting created and why it's not using the palm patch
Jan 02 05:21:58 <zsoc> Gesture area maps as ascii 231
Jan 02 05:22:21 <zsoc> 231 is ç
Jan 02 05:22:31 <zsoc> that might cause an issue in some countries lol
Jan 02 05:22:41 <destinal> lol I can't believe we didn't even notice napp = native app until tonight :)
Jan 02 05:22:52 <bpadalino> yeah for real
Jan 02 05:23:36 <zsoc> is nappmgr launchable with any options?
Jan 02 05:23:50 <destinal> zsoc: it just runs in the foreground when I run it with --help
Jan 02 05:24:23 <egaudet> zsoc, you talking about the meta key code?
Jan 02 05:24:42 <zsoc> egaudet: sure
Jan 02 05:24:46 <destinal> zsoc: strings doesn't suggest anything interesting either IMO ... ooh, except
Jan 02 05:24:49 <destinal>  ..   -test
Jan 02 05:25:04 <Jack87-wIRC> zs
Jan 02 05:25:07 <zsoc> destinal: my connect fails :(
Jan 02 05:25:11 <destinal> same here
Jan 02 05:25:20 <destinal> it must be trying to connect somewhere to report info
Jan 02 05:25:33 <destinal> but without that it runs in the foreground happily
Jan 02 05:25:41 <Jack87-wIRC> any luck with strafe
Jan 02 05:25:45 <zsoc> Jack87-wIRC: wahots figured out the keyboard mapping issue, waiting on his fix
Jan 02 05:26:08 <ird> Happy hacking guys.
Jan 02 05:26:11 <ird> I'm going to bed.
Jan 02 05:26:12 <destinal> ooh and with nappmgr stopped doom is unhappy when not in a card
Jan 02 05:26:17 <destinal> it goes fullscreen to black screen
Jan 02 05:26:35 <zsoc> so the luna hook is a service, interesting
Jan 02 05:26:53 <Jack87-wIRC> nice. this is an exciting project
Jan 02 05:26:54 <destinal> zsoc: well it still runs fine in a card
Jan 02 05:26:56 <zsoc> we can try some service requests..
Jan 02 05:26:57 <destinal> just not fs
Jan 02 05:27:14 <Jack87-wIRC> on screen controls next?
Jan 02 05:28:20 <zsoc> Jack87-wIRC: and/or accelerometer
Jan 02 05:28:33 <destinal> ooh except native apps in a card seem to be suspended anyway at least drawing-wise
Jan 02 05:28:52 <destinal> without nappmgr
Jan 02 05:28:55 <destinal> interesting
Jan 02 05:29:20 * destinal goes back to trying to build, fix links
Jan 02 05:29:26 <Jack87-wIRC> I wonder ifwe will ever see half life on this thing. original ran on open gl on my old 433mhz box
Jan 02 05:29:29 <bpadalino> yeah fix those links..
Jan 02 05:30:06 <destinal> Jack87-wIRC: first, get the source code to Half life then :)
Jan 02 05:30:24 <bpadalino> --enable-video-opengles
Jan 02 05:30:28 <bpadalino> that may have to happen as well ?
Jan 02 05:30:30 <bpadalino> just saying
Jan 02 05:31:01 <destinal> wish they would include documentation on how _they_ build it
Jan 02 05:31:11 <jacques> that would be nice
Jan 02 05:31:17 <Jack87-wIRC> I can't remember if it was open or not. I think so. that's how cs and otther mods were made
Jan 02 05:31:43 <zsoc> quake first :p
Jan 02 05:32:13 <Jack87-wIRC> grive and irc bad mix maybe when I'm off freeway
Jan 02 05:32:21 <destinal> lol
Jan 02 05:32:40 <bpadalino> zsoc, did you get anwyhere with that quake maemo port ?
Jan 02 05:32:41 <destinal> wirc can definitely entice one into risky driving ;)
Jan 02 05:33:05 <Jack87-wIRC> hl cs are pretty hardcore
Jan 02 05:33:42 <joshua> half life isn't open source, valve aren't that cool
Jan 02 05:34:01 <zsoc> bpadalino: been playing with sdl test
Jan 02 05:34:07 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 05:34:44 <egaudet> destinal, how are you building?  You have an arm userland for cross compiling?
Jan 02 05:34:51 <destinal> bpadalino: good catch..  why oh why did they set : --enable-video-opengles and --enable-webos to NO by default?
Jan 02 05:35:00 <destinal> how many other incantations do we have to add?
Jan 02 05:35:09 <bpadalino> hehe
Jan 02 05:35:28 <destinal> --actually-build-dont-tell-anyone
Jan 02 05:35:48 <zsoc> destinal: bpadalino: can you figure out what --enable-video-opengles actually configures?
Jan 02 05:36:15 <bpadalino> yeah
Jan 02 05:36:55 <bpadalino> http://pastie.textmate.org/private/ytjqrhwwkz7xchoeo6ta
Jan 02 05:36:59 <bpadalino> that's all it says
Jan 02 05:37:01 <egaudet> -llibpalmvibe
Jan 02 05:37:03 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: ?
Jan 02 05:37:10 <egaudet> err -lpalmvibe
Jan 02 05:37:30 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: i don't know what this is, wondering if it was new
Jan 02 05:37:35 <bpadalino> egaudet: haptic feedback
Jan 02 05:38:01 <bpadalino> there are a lot of different options for the haptic stuff
Jan 02 05:38:09 <bpadalino> sawtooth, sine, blah blah blah
Jan 02 05:38:21 <destinal> bpadalino: haptic defaults yes, at least
Jan 02 05:38:24 <zsoc> bpadalino: all in nice ascii art comments
Jan 02 05:38:46 <bpadalino> zsoc, indeed! that was amusing
Jan 02 05:38:59 <bpadalino> but i think that is actually a patch from someone else
Jan 02 05:39:09 <bpadalino> it's commented nicely and whatnot
Jan 02 05:39:30 <bpadalino> destinal: do you have GLES/gl.h and GLES/egl.h ?
Jan 02 05:39:32 <destinal> bpadalino: well, did you notice the "palm is" and "palm is not" in the patch?
Jan 02 05:39:41 <destinal> think maybe 3rd party help
Jan 02 05:39:51 <bpadalino> destinal, no where is that at ?
Jan 02 05:40:26 <jacques> bpadalino, are those header files standard ?
Jan 02 05:40:31 <bpadalino> jacques: yes
Jan 02 05:40:44 <jacques> ah great. I was hoping.
Jan 02 05:40:44 <bpadalino> http://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/
Jan 02 05:40:48 <bpadalino> looks like there are from there
Jan 02 05:40:53 <jacques> thakns
Jan 02 05:41:24 <destinal> +#ifdef PALM // Palm's implementation of GL is only partial and it goes through GL-ES
Jan 02 05:41:32 <destinal> okay, it's not much evidence of anything
Jan 02 05:41:49 <destinal> but it is "palm's" and not "our"
Jan 02 05:41:55 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 05:42:24 <bpadalino> oh, that's because it's under: +#ifdef SDL_VIDEO_OPENGL
Jan 02 05:42:33 <bpadalino> you want SDL_VIDEO_OPENGL_ES
Jan 02 05:42:36 <bpadalino> which is right below it
Jan 02 05:43:46 <egaudet> Comments in 3rd person like that I think are common from companies no?
Jan 02 05:45:35 <egaudet> destinal, does autconf barf for you?
Jan 02 05:46:16 <zsoc> i have to go to bed
Jan 02 05:46:33 <bpadalino> night zsoc
Jan 02 05:47:02 <oil> elite webos hackers sleep?
Jan 02 05:47:05 <oil> lies!
Jan 02 05:47:16 <bpadalino> hahah
Jan 02 05:47:16 <zsoc> oil: you forgot the extraordinaire
Jan 02 05:47:26 <zsoc> oil: say it
Jan 02 05:47:38 <zsoc> oil: say it oil
Jan 02 05:47:43 <zsoc> oil: say it to me
Jan 02 05:47:52 * oil walks away slowly
Jan 02 05:47:55 * zsoc taps foot impatiently
Jan 02 05:48:02 <bpadalino> diva :)
Jan 02 05:48:43 <zsoc|sleeper-ext> hmph
Jan 02 05:49:22 <sleeper-extraord> bah ok i give up
Jan 02 05:49:43 <zsoc|away> happy hacking
Jan 02 05:50:38 <egaudet> they patched configure.in but not configure
Jan 02 05:50:48 <bpadalino> strange
Jan 02 05:50:49 <egaudet> the CheckIpod() stuff was making autoconf barf for me
Jan 02 05:51:08 <egaudet> I comment that out and now I have the palm modified configure
Jan 02 05:51:15 <bpadalino> very nice
Jan 02 05:52:03 <egaudet> but I'm a cross compile noob, so I'm not sure what I need to have
Jan 02 05:52:37 <bpadalino> they use codesourcery 2007q3 or something right ?
Jan 02 05:53:42 <egaudet> I have the toolchain, but do I need an arm userland for all the standard includes?  Right now the makefile is generated to -I/usr/include which I don't think is proper
Jan 02 05:54:48 <bpadalino> for the headers it shouldn't matter .. for linking, it will matter where you link against
Jan 02 05:55:02 <bpadalino> the headers just define library methods, which are the same for whatever platform (right?)
Jan 02 05:55:36 <egaudet> I hope
Jan 02 05:58:12 <bpadalino> it's time for me to go to bed too .. night .. hopefully the morning will have some good results
Jan 02 06:00:06 <egaudet> night
Jan 02 06:08:04 <rwhitby> re
Jan 02 06:08:47 <rwhitby> destinal: what's the status?
Jan 02 06:10:59 <egaudet> I don't think we can build this without headers for Piranha, napp ...
Jan 02 06:13:58 <destinal> rwhitby: family emergency .. back now
Jan 02 06:15:04 <egaudet> destinal, did you use autoconf to generate a palm-patched configure?
Jan 02 06:15:32 <destinal> egaudet: I patched, and then  ./configure --enable-webos --enable-video-opengles
Jan 02 06:15:41 <egaudet> the configure isn't patched, configure.in is
Jan 02 06:15:58 <egaudet> so you are using unpatched configure (hence --enable-webos not working right?)
Jan 02 06:16:31 <destinal> egaudet: I don't think that's true since -DPALM is getting set
Jan 02 06:17:05 <egaudet> grep enable-webos configure
Jan 02 06:17:31 <destinal> hmm
Jan 02 06:17:42 <destinal> I guess I'll grab autoconf and try that
Jan 02 06:18:18 <egaudet> autoconf didn't work for me until I commented out the CheckIpod() stuff, dunno why, but after that I got a good configure and my build dies looking for Piranha header
Jan 02 06:18:43 <destinal> well that would be progress at least
Jan 02 06:20:34 <egaudet> Although I am really still new to all the cross compiling stuff.  I added a -I to include headers from a userland PuffTheMagic had given me a while ago, but I'm sure there's a more correct configure way to get set up right.  I'm just winging it.
Jan 02 06:20:40 <egaudet> ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvfb.cc:5:30: error: Piranha/PContext.h: No such file or directory
Jan 02 06:25:13 <rwhitby> are you guys trying to rebuild the SDL library, or just trying to build something against headers, and then a dummy library stub before running on the device?
Jan 02 06:25:38 <dtzWill> out of curiosity, is there a reason that gnuboy, etc, aren't being packaged up like doom was? (other than time?)
Jan 02 06:25:54 <destinal> rwhitby: we were trying to build test programs initially and it seemed like building against the real library would be simplest (back when we didn't think anything was missing)
Jan 02 06:27:14 <egaudet> I wish we could just get all the headers for everything! :P
Jan 02 06:27:15 <destinal> I can copy in ones from the device into my chroot and probably still build test programs, but it would have been nice not have to make a stub library for the autobuild
Jan 02 06:27:55 <oil> i don't think the gnuboy developer ever comes in here
Jan 02 06:29:11 <dtzWill> oil: okay.  just seemed that with the sweet upstart setup, throwing a wrapper app/rom chooser would be a fun project :)
Jan 02 06:29:17 <dtzWill> or at least something someone might do
Jan 02 06:30:48 <rwhitby> dtzWill: well, we have an exception at the moment where only a very few people are able to build the DOOM! binary that is now on your Pre.  That's a situation that we prefer *not* to have.
Jan 02 06:31:16 <rwhitby> We prefer that all packages in Preware from webos-internals can be built from source by the autobuilder, which means that anyone can replicate the build at any time.
Jan 02 06:31:27 <dtzWill> ah, i thought it was just me (just started poking at it today)
Jan 02 06:31:41 <destinal> dtzWill: once we have a repeatable build environment for DOOM, many people can apply a similar configuration to other apps / games too
Jan 02 06:31:46 <dtzWill> rwhitby: thanks for the explanation
Jan 02 06:31:49 <rwhitby> So the next task is to work out how to autobuild it, and then we can go to town on other games
Jan 02 06:32:02 <rwhitby> (with lots of people doing lots of games in parallel)
Jan 02 06:32:18 <dtzWill> rwhitby, destinal: absolutely understood, and that makes sense.  i wasn't sure why people weren't jumping on that already :)
Jan 02 06:33:16 <rwhitby> unless these guys work it out earlier, I'll be spending my next solid hacking period getting libSDL into the autobuilder toolchain directory, just like we did with liblunaservice which allowed us to autobuild the upstart manager service.
Jan 02 06:33:48 <destinal> rwhitby: I resorted to building on the pre because I lack the knowledge on how to make autobuild stuff cross compile  prroperly -- you guys in the optware project have a _lot_ more experience at that
Jan 02 06:34:22 <destinal> unfortunately the pre is slow at compiling things
Jan 02 06:34:38 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, that's all good - a solid build recipe in a native environment (perhaps documented on a wiki page) is a prerequisite to being able to cross-compile
Jan 02 06:35:44 <egaudet> where'd you get headers on the Pre?
Jan 02 06:36:37 <destinal> http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m48fd1c6c
Jan 02 06:36:41 <destinal> same error here as well
Jan 02 06:36:59 <destinal> and I didn't need to mess with ipod stuff more than
Jan 02 06:37:05 <destinal> sh autogen.sh ./configure --disable-ipod --enable-webos --enable-video-opengles
Jan 02 06:37:13 <destinal> s/sh/sh & /
Jan 02 06:37:13 <infobot> destinal meant: sh &  autogen.sh ./configure --disable-ipod --enable-webos --enable-video-opengles
Jan 02 06:37:29 <destinal> oh well, you know what I mean
Jan 02 06:37:39 <egaudet> hehe yea
Jan 02 06:38:47 <destinal> so how hard is this stub library approach you guys took before with lunaservice or whatever?
Jan 02 06:38:52 <egaudet> destinal, you compile on the Pre itself?  How/where did you get the standard headers for /usr/include ?
Jan 02 06:39:08 <destinal> egaudet: it's a chroot into a  debian image
Jan 02 06:39:44 <destinal> I just did apt-get install build-essential    and went for it
Jan 02 06:39:54 <egaudet> ahh ok
Jan 02 06:39:56 <jacques> biab
Jan 02 06:40:16 <rwhitby> destinal: it's dead easy if you have headers with prototypes for the functions you need from the libraries
Jan 02 06:40:57 <destinal> rwhitby: well we should have the headers I think you mean
Jan 02 06:41:10 <rwhitby> well, let's get them in a repo then.
Jan 02 06:42:08 <destinal> ok, there are 322 headers in the palm-patched SDL lib
Jan 02 06:42:26 <rwhitby> ok, I think I'm done with the packaging emergencies for the day (myflashlight, mvapp, etc), so I can start looking at this now
Jan 02 06:42:42 <rwhitby> where's the wiki page we're all contributing to?
Jan 02 06:43:29 <trim-mobile> sup
Jan 02 06:43:30 <destinal> rwhitby: heh, so far the irc channel is what we have.  lack of slowing down to organize the information I think
Jan 02 06:43:47 <oil> lol
Jan 02 06:44:01 <destinal> what do we want in the wiki?
Jan 02 06:44:11 <destinal> I can perform brain dump :)
Jan 02 06:44:51 <rwhitby> for a start, a list of URLs which are our source material, so we're all working on the same thing
Jan 02 06:45:00 <destinal> ok I'll make a LibSDL Research page
Jan 02 06:45:33 <rwhitby> the way these things work best is to have at least three people all being able to get to the same point with the same input materials
Jan 02 06:45:55 <rwhitby> so, libsdl* tarballs and patches from opensource.palm.com - what else?
Jan 02 06:50:35 <rwhitby> hmm - seen these 'c' (name of file) scripts in libsdl-* ?
Jan 02 06:51:48 <rwhitby> the patches for libsdl-image and libsdl-net only touch that file, so that would have the compilation keys in it
Jan 02 06:52:35 <destinal> rwhitby: ok, so...  This is the wiki page we'll all be contributing to for now :)
Jan 02 06:52:36 <destinal> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/LibSDL_Research
Jan 02 06:53:01 <rwhitby> sweet, thx.
Jan 02 06:54:54 <rwhitby> ok, so the're using $STAGING_INCDIR/SDL ..
Jan 02 06:56:30 <rwhitby> and we have SDL_config.h
Jan 02 06:58:45 <destinal> rwhitby: ah, the "c" script that seems to run a c.pl in /opt/nova/piranh?
Jan 02 06:58:53 <destinal> s/h?/ha?/
Jan 02 06:58:54 <infobot> destinal meant: rwhitby: ah, the "c" script that seems to run a c.pl in /opt/nova/piranha?
Jan 02 06:59:11 <destinal> and re the test directory, yes, I follow you
Jan 02 06:59:22 <rwhitby> Makefile.in diff shows that Palm has added SDL_opengles.h and SDL_opengles_ext.h
Jan 02 06:59:33 <icarus> will preware not work with the latest update of webOS?
Jan 02 06:59:58 <rwhitby> icarus: http://twitter.com/webosinternals from a few days ago
Jan 02 07:00:14 <v3ritas> @icarus PreWare works perfectly fine with 1.3.5
Jan 02 07:00:21 <rwhitby> or the Preware thread on PreCentral
Jan 02 07:01:48 <rwhitby> destinal: the interesting diffs in the patches are those that create new files ...
Jan 02 07:01:58 <rwhitby> SDL_WebOsEvent.h for instance ...
Jan 02 07:02:37 <icarus> its just, ive update, and im getting an error "TypeError: Cannot read property 'length' of undefined"
Jan 02 07:02:44 <icarus> updated*
Jan 02 07:02:47 <rwhitby> icarus: yep
Jan 02 07:03:07 <rwhitby> you need Package Manager Service 0.9.27
Jan 02 07:03:29 <egaudet> the webosevent files are interesting, there's two of them, one using napp and one using hidd
Jan 02 07:03:40 <v3ritas> @icarus: Use webOS Quick Install to update / re install the Package Manager Service
Jan 02 07:04:01 <icarus> v3ritas: the bootstrap?
Jan 02 07:04:38 <rwhitby> bootstrap script will update you to 0.9.27
Jan 02 07:04:59 <v3ritas> @icarus: the bootstrap is another option. Personally i had to restore my Pre due to rediculous lag, but as rwhitby said, the bootstrap also works
Jan 02 07:06:09 <rwhitby> destinal: pity they didn't write a README.WebOS in the libSDL dir ... ;-)
Jan 02 07:06:20 <destinal> rwhitby: heh, I thought so too :)
Jan 02 07:06:34 <destinal> rwhitby: any way to make patch ignore missing files?
Jan 02 07:06:47 <icarus> i couldn't use the quick install last time i tried because of some java issue, so i did the bootstrap
Jan 02 07:06:48 <rwhitby> echo 'n' | patch ....
Jan 02 07:06:51 <rwhitby> sorry,
Jan 02 07:06:53 <icarus> but i understand the risks
Jan 02 07:06:56 <rwhitby> yes 'n' | patch ...
Jan 02 07:07:06 <destinal> ah, of course
Jan 02 07:07:25 <rwhitby> icarus: http://bit.ly/preware-bootstrap is the most robust way to install or upgrade Preware
Jan 02 07:07:28 <ali1> anyone knows what else to do to have additional codecs other than recompiling ffmpeg?
Jan 02 07:07:50 <ali1> i really have no clue on gstreamer itself.
Jan 02 07:08:16 <icarus> i noticed there hasn't been a port of mplayer just yet
Jan 02 07:08:35 <destinal> rwhitby: err except stdin for patch is usually the patch itself
Jan 02 07:09:00 <icarus> rwhitby: thanks
Jan 02 07:09:28 <rwhitby> destinal: yes 'n' | (patch ... < ....) ?
Jan 02 07:11:04 <egaudet> throw your stdout away
Jan 02 07:11:30 <destinal> yes 'n'|(patch -p0 < ../libsdl-1.2-patch)    fails, still prompts me
Jan 02 07:11:30 <egaudet> patch < file > /dev/null  ?
Jan 02 07:11:40 <destinal> oh?
Jan 02 07:11:47 <egaudet> patch < file > tmpfile
Jan 02 07:11:57 <destinal> so it is
Jan 02 07:12:00 <destinal> nice thx
Jan 02 07:12:00 <egaudet> then it auto assumes N i believe
Jan 02 07:12:33 <destinal> so     patch -p0 < ../libsdl-1.2-patch > /dev/null     gives us only new files
Jan 02 07:13:02 <destinal> ./include/SDL_haptic.h ./include/SDL_opengles_ext.h ./include/SDL_opengles.h ./src/audio/SDL_mixer_arm.h ./src/events/webos/SDL_WebOsEvent.h ./src/events/webos/SDL_WebOsHook.h ./src/events/webos/SDL_WebOsTypes.h ./src/events/webos/tslib.h ./src/haptic/SDL_syshaptic.h ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbgles.h ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvfb.h ./src/video/SDL_glesfuncs.h
Jan 02 07:13:07 <destinal> are the headers
Jan 02 07:13:19 <rwhitby> hmm - /usr/bin/m4:configure.in:865: bad expression in eval: m4_Cursor + 2 + 1
Jan 02 07:13:44 <destinal> rwhitby: that's odd, autoconf worked fine on it for me
Jan 02 07:14:06 <destinal> are you doing this on OSX?
Jan 02 07:14:13 <rwhitby> destinal: this is trying to build host on karmic
Jan 02 07:14:18 <destinal> hmmm
Jan 02 07:14:33 <rwhitby> figured I'd try host first, then cross
Jan 02 07:16:04 <rwhitby> ok, let's try optware libsdl dir cross, without and with palm's patch
Jan 02 07:16:39 <rwhitby> optware has libsdl-1.2.11 - do we know what version Palm started with?
Jan 02 07:17:14 <jacques> libs have same major and minor numbers, so I would hope the API wasn't changed
Jan 02 07:17:16 <destinal> 1.2.13.2 ?
Jan 02 07:17:27 <destinal> or is that 1.2.13?
Jan 02 07:17:34 <jacques> libSDL-1.2.so.0.11.2
Jan 02 07:18:03 <destinal> weird, the config.in says
Jan 02 07:18:05 <destinal> SDL_MAJOR_VERSION=1
Jan 02 07:18:05 <destinal> SDL_MINOR_VERSION=2
Jan 02 07:18:05 <destinal> SDL_MICRO_VERSION=13
Jan 02 07:18:08 <jacques> hich is same as on my gentoo and fedora workstations
Jan 02 07:18:28 <rwhitby> WhatsNew says 1.2.13
Jan 02 07:18:31 <jacques> destinal: yes, the lib name is the same in 1.2.13
Jan 02 07:18:36 <destinal> ah, ok
Jan 02 07:18:43 <rwhitby> ok, update optware to 1.2.13 first then
Jan 02 07:20:48 <egaudet> rwhitby, that m4 error is the same one I get
Jan 02 07:21:12 <jacques> it's a shame that we're so close to being able to cross-build the patched sdl libs, but we are only missing a few header files?
Jan 02 07:21:17 <egaudet> It works when I comment out CheckIPod stuff in configure.in
Jan 02 07:21:30 <rwhitby> jacques: oh, someone's tried cross-build already?
Jan 02 07:22:12 <egaudet> I'm cross building
Jan 02 07:22:18 <jacques> rwhitby: I said it badly. if someone could native build them, I am confident we could get them cross-building
Jan 02 07:22:33 <jacques> and I guess someone did try :-)
Jan 02 07:22:51 <rwhitby> egaudet: cross-building on what host OS with what build env?
Jan 02 07:22:57 <jacques> but we can't even native build them ATM
Jan 02 07:23:19 <egaudet> ubuntu karmic, using toolchain from build.git
Jan 02 07:23:55 <egaudet> took that debian image that's in our wiki and mounted it and use the usr/include from it as --oldincludedir=
Jan 02 07:23:58 <rwhitby> egaudet: awesome, that's what I'm targetting
Jan 02 07:24:01 <egaudet> in configure
Jan 02 07:24:14 <egaudet> ./configure --disable-ipod --enable-webos --enable-video-opengles --oldincludedir=/opt/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/usr/includ
Jan 02 07:24:35 <rwhitby> ah, let me know what it needs from that includedir and I'll get it into staging
Jan 02 07:24:39 <egaudet> no idea if that's "correct" but it works up to the failure from missing Piranha headers
Jan 02 07:24:42 <jacques> ugh, and libPiranha.so is not tiny
Jan 02 07:24:56 <jacques> so it might not be easy to derive headers
Jan 02 07:24:56 <egaudet> I know at the least it needs select.h
Jan 02 07:25:24 <rwhitby> egaudet: sorry, I mean non-system headers
Jan 02 07:25:46 <egaudet> It may not need any
Jan 02 07:26:13 <egaudet> I just didn't know where to get system headers for arm so I took the debian image
Jan 02 07:27:22 <jacques> system headers come from two places: libc and kernel
Jan 02 07:27:30 <icarus> rwhitby: success
Jan 02 07:29:04 <icarus> though preware seems to have forgotten all my previously installed packages
Jan 02 07:29:13 <icarus> even though they are still installed
Jan 02 07:30:43 <rwhitby> icarus: emergency migration helper
Jan 02 07:30:53 <rwhitby> also listed in those places I said ;-)
Jan 02 07:31:58 <icarus> rwhitby: :)
Jan 02 07:32:20 <icarus> http://www.precentral.net/sites/precentral.net/files/articleimages/Dieter%20Bohn/2009/12/EMH.png
Jan 02 07:33:16 <destinal> rwhitby: so should we focus on trying to get the proper SDL to build, or just replicating zsoc's technique which was to link against the unpatched SDL lib, knowing we lose some functionality that DOOM doesn't use
Jan 02 07:34:10 <jacques> my concern is: some of the most interesting stuff is what was added by Palm to SDL
Jan 02 07:34:19 <destinal> jacques: very true
Jan 02 07:34:40 <rwhitby> destinal: I'm going to try and get palm's patches libSDL to cross-compile as an optware package
Jan 02 07:34:47 <jacques> another concern is: spending a lot of time reversing stuff, when Palm might release the header files as part of a SDK in a few days
Jan 02 07:35:18 <rwhitby> jacques: hmm - I hadn't even considered an SDK release at CES
Jan 02 07:35:39 <destinal> knowing Palm I think it'll be private for a while longer
Jan 02 07:35:50 <jacques> well maybe I am wrong in thinking that
Jan 02 07:36:11 <destinal> exclusive for a while, then if they release it it will be to early beta people, then eventually public a while later
Jan 02 07:36:37 <rwhitby> destinal: yeah, I'd agree.
Jan 02 07:36:53 <rwhitby> egaudet: do we know the full .configure command line from anywhere in the patches?
Jan 02 07:36:57 <rwhitby> perhaps a config.log file?
Jan 02 07:36:59 <jacques> it's possible we could hack things so that SDL with Palm's patches is cross-built, but certain things are #defined out in the code because they require headers we don't have
Jan 02 07:37:18 <egaudet> not that I've noticed yet
Jan 02 07:37:34 <destinal> jacques: yeah, we either fake headers to make it work or comment out the minimum that uses those headers to make it work
Jan 02 07:37:37 <destinal> the latter is faster
Jan 02 07:37:50 <rwhitby> destinal, jacques: yeah, that's where I'm going
Jan 02 07:37:51 <jacques> that's not particularly satisfying. I'd almost rather be one or the other, all stubbed out, or all functional cross-built libs
Jan 02 07:37:54 <egaudet> I also take back what I said earlier about the oldincludedir= part, I have to manually edit Makefile to add arm system include path
Jan 02 07:38:09 <jacques> destinal: yeah I'm thinking the latter of those two options
Jan 02 07:38:16 <jacques> (that you mentions)
Jan 02 07:38:34 * rwhitby creates optware/make/sdl-webos.mk
Jan 02 07:39:12 <destinal> jacques: I hear you but I think building a totally stub library for something this big will take quite a while
Jan 02 07:39:19 <rwhitby> it is big
Jan 02 07:39:58 <jacques> destinal: yep. I'm just expressing that I haven't thought of a "clean" solution yet (there may be none at this stage)
Jan 02 07:40:11 <destinal> *nods*
Jan 02 07:40:41 <jacques> so many variables, including loss of momentum
Jan 02 07:41:00 <jacques> sometimes it really *is* better to have a "good enough for now" solution
Jan 02 07:41:28 <destinal> right, we can always get closer to perfect, but if it works, people can start hacking on their sdl projects
Jan 02 07:42:30 <jacques> my thoughts exactly
Jan 02 07:43:07 <rwhitby> nod
Jan 02 07:43:23 <jacques> it's not as if we know the right thing to do and just don't want to spend the time/effort. at this point I don't think we have enough information to know the "best" way to go
Jan 02 07:43:55 <rwhitby> ok, palm-patched SDL is currently building in opware
Jan 02 07:44:07 <Robi_> oooh
Jan 02 07:44:11 <rwhitby> jacques: are you set up for optware builds?
Jan 02 07:44:21 <jacques> rwhitby: yep
Jan 02 07:44:21 <rwhitby> building, not built.
Jan 02 07:44:34 <destinal> Robi_: we expect build to fail for the moment :)
Jan 02 07:44:44 <rwhitby> jacques: shall I check in sdl-webos.mk so we can collaborate?
Jan 02 07:44:48 <sportmankid> so whats the latest and greatest project you guys are working on
Jan 02 07:44:53 <Robi_> progress since last time i peeked in
Jan 02 07:45:11 <jacques> rwhitby: please do
Jan 02 07:45:12 <Robi_> poor zsoc
Jan 02 07:45:14 <rwhitby> egaudet: are you set up for optware builds?
Jan 02 07:45:39 <rwhitby> ok, first error is:
Jan 02 07:45:40 <rwhitby> ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvideo.c:805: error: 'struct SDL_PrivateVideoData' has no member named 'Visible'
Jan 02 07:45:42 <Robi_> destinal: there's things to learn from failure that simple doesn't exist otherwise
Jan 02 07:45:53 <rwhitby> do we need fbcon ?
Jan 02 07:46:01 <destinal> rwhitby: you shouldn't get that
Jan 02 07:46:13 <Robi_> s/simple/simply
Jan 02 07:46:15 <destinal> -DPALM fixes that which is set by --enable-webos
Jan 02 07:46:19 <egaudet> no
Jan 02 07:46:32 <egaudet> i don't think
Jan 02 07:46:43 <destinal> I think we do need fbcon actually
Jan 02 07:46:57 <destinal> but anyway that error goes away with proper defines, or did for me
Jan 02 07:47:12 <rwhitby> egaudet: the approach I've been taking (circuitous as it is) is to build stuff in optware, then unpack it into the build.git staging area
Jan 02 07:47:27 <destinal> rwhitby: you autogen'd and configured with the switches I listed on the wiki?
Jan 02 07:47:43 <rwhitby> destinal: didn't autogen, only configured
Jan 02 07:47:48 <destinal> you need autogen
Jan 02 07:47:54 <destinal> they only patch the .in
Jan 02 07:48:01 <icarus> hmm, im not seeing emergency migration helper in preware, ive got the webos-internals turned on
Jan 02 07:48:10 <icarus> i see someone also had this issue in the forums though
Jan 02 07:48:22 <icarus> their method of solving it doesnt seem to have worked
Jan 02 07:49:42 <rwhitby> destinal: ok, so I need to patch the .in to remove the ipod stuff that fails
Jan 02 07:49:47 <destinal> no
Jan 02 07:49:58 <Robi_> icarus: ya weird, my preware doesn't know about some patches it applied ;-/
Jan 02 07:49:59 <destinal> rwhitby: you need to build a new configure script
Jan 02 07:50:03 <destinal> based on palm's patched .in
Jan 02 07:50:04 <rwhitby> destinal: but my autogen fails with the m4 error above
Jan 02 07:50:21 <destinal> rwhitby: it autogens for me on debian chroot
Jan 02 07:50:22 <rwhitby> icarus: what's the feed URL in Manage Feeds for webos-internals?
Jan 02 07:50:46 <icarus> hang on, im rebooting the pre
Jan 02 07:50:48 <rwhitby> egaudet: what did you patch?
Jan 02 07:50:52 <jacques> I missed the M4 error
Jan 02 07:50:57 <destinal> you don't need to patch the ipod stuff
Jan 02 07:51:01 <sportmankid> anyone working on more games?
Jan 02 07:51:05 <destinal> the disable switch fixes that
Jan 02 07:51:11 <rwhitby> hmm - /usr/bin/m4:configure.in:865: bad expression in eval: m4_Cursor + 2 + 1
Jan 02 07:51:38 <destinal> sportmankid: working on making new games possible / repeatably buildable (not sexy, I know)
Jan 02 07:51:58 <egaudet> destinal, the disable doesn't fix it
Jan 02 07:52:04 <egaudet> it's an error at autogen time
Jan 02 07:52:09 <destinal> what?
Jan 02 07:52:11 <destinal> I get no such error
Jan 02 07:52:12 <destinal> at all
Jan 02 07:52:36 <jacques> is this a shell issue?
Jan 02 07:52:45 <egaudet> I don't know why, maybe our version of  m4?
Jan 02 07:53:03 <egaudet> rwhitby, I commented out the CheckIPod routine in configure.in and then ran autogen.sh
Jan 02 07:54:09 <jacques> worst case we generate the configure once and then hack that as necessary
Jan 02 07:54:33 <destinal> so the other question is, how important is it to have an sdl library that builds?  is having the headers etc and palm's binary libraries good enough?
Jan 02 07:54:57 <jacques> destinal: good question. I was wondering same
Jan 02 07:55:10 <tmzt> to improve it
Jan 02 07:55:15 <tmzt> to support the Pixi
Jan 02 07:55:15 <tmzt> etc.
Jan 02 07:55:18 <jacques> if we had all the parts, I would definitely want to build it - more flexible
Jan 02 07:55:32 <tmzt> also, would like to split out the backend to build an X ddx eventually
Jan 02 07:55:37 <tmzt> since Xsdl is very very dead
Jan 02 07:55:49 <rwhitby> jacques: sdl-webos.mk checked into optware
Jan 02 07:55:49 <destinal> jacques: sure, that's definitely why we started on this path, we prefer the whole stack to build from the bottom up
Jan 02 07:56:00 <destinal> just saying if we can't, it's not a huge loss for now
Jan 02 07:56:08 <jacques> destinal: agreed
Jan 02 07:56:59 <rwhitby> egaudet: I'll add that as a patch to sdl-webos.mk in optware
Jan 02 07:57:02 <tmzt> rwhitby: is X something you would be interested in having by the way?
Jan 02 07:57:06 <egaudet> where's optware
Jan 02 07:57:25 <destinal> tmzt: I personally think X would be very useful
Jan 02 07:57:53 <destinal> in the way classic is useful
Jan 02 07:57:54 <rwhitby> egaudet: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/AddAPackageToOptware
Jan 02 07:58:01 <tmzt> destinal: is classic useful?
Jan 02 07:58:08 <rwhitby> egaudet: should build fine on karmic
Jan 02 07:58:11 <tmzt> this would be full speed or not worth it
Jan 02 07:58:13 <destinal> if you need apps you can't run in a webos-aware way, yes
Jan 02 07:58:18 <tmzt> it would even have glx redirection of gles stuff
Jan 02 07:58:44 <destinal> it would expand our library of software dramatically
Jan 02 07:59:12 <destinal> true ports are always better but we'll never see enough of those to make X unimportant
Jan 02 08:00:16 <destinal> plus network transparancy is a big win
Jan 02 08:01:08 <destinal> for that matter vnc, rdesktop are apps we should think about for SDL
Jan 02 08:01:13 <icarus> rwhitby: nvm, got it
Jan 02 08:03:26 * oil cant wait
Jan 02 08:05:41 <rwhitby> jacques: configure.in patch added to optware sdl-webos
Jan 02 08:06:29 <egaudet> patch: **** Can't create file /source/optware/tmp/ppu8VbKX : No such file or directory
Jan 02 08:06:46 <jacques> rwhitby: what's the proper optware target for pre: cs08q1armel or pre ?
Jan 02 08:07:01 <rwhitby> jacques: cs08q1armel is what I use in general
Jan 02 08:07:14 <jacques> rwhitby: ok
Jan 02 08:07:17 <rwhitby> then I use pre for stuff like kernel modules
Jan 02 08:07:25 <jacques> good to know
Jan 02 08:07:27 <egaudet> rwhitby, make sdl-webos should just work?
Jan 02 08:07:29 <rwhitby> feel free to just use pre if you like
Jan 02 08:07:55 <rwhitby> egaudet: did you set up the platform ?
Jan 02 08:08:15 <tmzt> nothing outside of that should be pre specific
Jan 02 08:08:32 <tmzt> even codesourcery specfic, I'm confused
Jan 02 08:09:19 <egaudet> no
Jan 02 08:09:31 <rwhitby> jacques: but I have started using the pre platform for stuff that I'm putting into build.git
Jan 02 08:09:43 <rwhitby> jacques: for this exercise, let's use pre
Jan 02 08:09:46 <jacques> aha
Jan 02 08:10:26 <rwhitby> then we can put conditionals in the generic package *.mk files with abandon, using OPTWARE_PLATFORM=pre
Jan 02 08:10:46 <rwhitby> (since cs08q1armel is used for *lots* of different optware targets)
Jan 02 08:11:23 <rwhitby> egaudet: start with "make pre-target"
Jan 02 08:11:34 <rwhitby> egaudet: then "cd pre ; make sdl-webos"
Jan 02 08:12:22 <jacques> how do I gt svn to stop asking "Client certificate filename"
Jan 02 08:13:38 <jacques> configure completed, building ...
Jan 02 08:13:48 <tmzt> edit the libcurl config I think
Jan 02 08:13:58 <rwhitby> jacques: I use svn+ssh://svn.nslu2-linux.org/svnroot/optware/trunk
Jan 02 08:14:04 <jacques> ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvfb.cc:5:30: error: Piranha/PContext.h: No such file or directory
Jan 02 08:14:09 <jacques> :-)
Jan 02 08:14:12 <rwhitby> jacques: or use svn:// rather than https
Jan 02 08:14:45 <rwhitby> jacques: that's in an optware build?
Jan 02 08:14:57 <jacques> dammit. c++  :-|
Jan 02 08:16:15 <jacques> maybe we should undefine PALM in ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvfb.cc
Jan 02 08:16:23 <jacques> effectively turning it into a stub
Jan 02 08:16:51 <rwhitby> jacques: that's an optware build?
Jan 02 08:17:06 <jacques> rwhitby: yep
Jan 02 08:17:14 <jacques> next hurdle: ./src/events/webos/integrated/SDL_WebOsEvent.c:5:25: error: napp/NApp_c.h: No such file or directory
Jan 02 08:17:23 <rwhitby> excellent.  so we have a repeatable build environment now
Jan 02 08:17:36 <rwhitby> one where we can share patches and fixes through svn
Jan 02 08:18:00 <Robi_> cool
Jan 02 08:18:29 <rwhitby> destinal: so, what's the licensing status of libSDL - are we going to get NApp_c.h from Palm?
Jan 02 08:18:41 <rwhitby> jacques: I just got to the same place with Piranha
Jan 02 08:19:18 <destinal> rwhitby: it's the same situation as safari.  LGPL program that isn't completely released and they probably won't feel it's incomplete just because we can't build it
Jan 02 08:19:24 <destinal> s/safari/webkit/
Jan 02 08:19:25 <infobot> destinal meant: rwhitby: it's the same situation as webkit.  LGPL program that isn't completely released and they probably won't feel it's incomplete just because we can't build it
Jan 02 08:19:26 <destinal> tired
Jan 02 08:20:07 <rwhitby> destinal: ok, so we need to do it ourselves then.  no free lunch.
Jan 02 08:20:16 <jacques> SDL_WebOsEvent.c is not nearly so easy to get past
Jan 02 08:20:21 <destinal> rwhitby: legally they're obligated to give it to us
Jan 02 08:20:52 <jacques> since it's a webos-specific file, the NApp calls are all over it and not inside #ifdefs
Jan 02 08:21:18 <destinal> rwhitby: they had to release this package because of SDL's LGPL license, and so they have to release complete corresponding code for the binary they distribute
Jan 02 08:21:33 <destinal> unfortunately unless things have changed over there it may be hard to explain that
Jan 02 08:21:38 <rwhitby> destinal: whether or not they are, it's clear based on previous discussions that we're not going to get it soon, right?
Jan 02 08:21:43 <destinal> agreed
Jan 02 08:22:04 <grndslm> anybody know why my pre keeps illuminating ever minute or so after i turn it off?
Jan 02 08:22:05 <jacques> tho I think we have enough info to generate protos for the NApp calls, so we could beiold a stub lib
Jan 02 08:22:14 <grndslm> it's in airplane mode... :-/
Jan 02 08:22:34 <rwhitby> jacques: do a stub for that file, and have sdl-webos.mk swap it in
Jan 02 08:22:38 <destinal> so this may be of interest to you guys.. the dependencies for building the test programs are stacking up.  right now at: libnapp.so libPiranha.so libpalmvibe.so libEGL.so /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so libGLES_CM.so libLunaSysMgrIpc.so libfreetype.so.6 libmjson.so libcjson.so libdbus-1.so.3 libgdbus.so.0 liblunaservice.so libgthread-2.0.so.0 libglib-2.0.so.0
Jan 02 08:22:42 <grndslm> nothing in particular comes up... just the unlock screen
Jan 02 08:23:17 <tmzt> and so they have to release complete
Jan 02 08:23:18 <tmzt>                   corresponding code for the binary they distribute
Jan 02 08:23:20 <rwhitby> grndslm: I've seen that too on my dev cdma pre running 1.3.5 - haven't worked out why yet
Jan 02 08:23:21 <destinal> I'm trying to build with palm's binaries as a side effort and copying everything each one seems to want
Jan 02 08:23:22 <tmzt> for the part that's LGPL
Jan 02 08:23:28 <tmzt> they can distribute .o of the rest
Jan 02 08:23:31 <tmzt> as long as it builds
Jan 02 08:23:34 <tmzt> is my understanding
Jan 02 08:24:08 <destinal> tmzt: uh, anything they link as part of the same object has to be LGPL, and all we want is the same libraries
Jan 02 08:24:17 <tmzt> what?
Jan 02 08:24:17 <destinal> just with their modifications and corresponding means they build and run
Jan 02 08:24:17 <egaudet> NNumDevices
Jan 02 08:24:18 <egaudet> :(
Jan 02 08:24:19 <grndslm> rwhitby:  i didn't see this with stock doctor, i don't think... i used meta'd 1.2.1 (don't ask why) and then upgraded to 1.3.5
Jan 02 08:24:22 <rick_home> rwhitby destinal I'm off to bed.  I'm sorry I didn't fix the wrapper for doom tonight, I got trapped into debugging someone elses javascript
Jan 02 08:24:30 <rick_home> and it's 0225 here, and I'm beat.
Jan 02 08:24:44 <rick_home> I'll do it tommorow unless oil does it first.
Jan 02 08:24:47 <rwhitby> tmzt: depending on where you want to position yourself in the grey area, you could go as far just distributing instructions to replace the LGPL'd source objects in the .so file
Jan 02 08:24:55 <rick_home> in the mean time, you guys ought to compile an NES emulator
Jan 02 08:24:59 <tmzt> destinal: I'm pretty sure that the closed part can be closed, as long as the source for the LGPL part is available and linkable with .o to produce the original
Jan 02 08:25:26 <destinal> tmzt: anything that's part of the same .so FILE they distribute, they have to release
Jan 02 08:25:30 <destinal> GPL is clear on that
Jan 02 08:25:36 <rwhitby> tmzt, destinal: you're both just stating the two ends of the LGPL grey area that has never been tested in court as far as I know
Jan 02 08:25:38 <tmzt> at least there are multiple programs realesed that way
Jan 02 08:25:40 <destinal> the grey area is for things linked at run time or derivative works
Jan 02 08:25:50 <tmzt> yes, but I'm talking specifically about LGPL
Jan 02 08:25:51 <tmzt> not GPL
Jan 02 08:26:02 <tmzt> and I'm going on what FSF says, not a legal opinion
Jan 02 08:26:28 <destinal> tmzt: LGPL has the same restrictions for the stuff it's made up of as GPL, just that you can write programs that use the library and link them and they don't have to be GPL too
Jan 02 08:26:36 <rwhitby> jacques: you've got the access to push fixes to make/sdl-webos.mk and sources/sdl-webos/* ?
Jan 02 08:26:53 <tmzt> destinal: the .o thing has been done for years
Jan 02 08:27:00 <destinal> tmzt: not really
Jan 02 08:27:19 <rwhitby> destinal: actually, the wording is different between GPL and LGPL, at least at the 2 and 2.1 versions respectively
Jan 02 08:27:20 <destinal> tmzt: what you're thinking about is derivative works like the kernel, and a module.  not the same thing here
Jan 02 08:27:22 <tmzt> I could find some examples
Jan 02 08:27:27 <tmzt> I'm not
Jan 02 08:27:30 <tmzt> LGPL
Jan 02 08:27:51 <destinal> regardless I'd rather hack on this than debate licenses :)
Jan 02 08:28:10 <rwhitby> :-)
Jan 02 08:28:17 <rwhitby> egaudet: get anywhere with optware build?
Jan 02 08:28:26 <tmzt> right, let Palm do compliance and weigh the risks
Jan 02 08:28:49 <Robi_> easier to ask forgiveness later
Jan 02 08:28:54 <destinal> tmzt: and anyway none of us can enforce it legally if it comes down to it, that would be up to the sdl copyright holders
Jan 02 08:29:16 <tmzt> destinal: right, and the courts
Jan 02 08:29:19 <tmzt> not arguing that
Jan 02 08:29:20 <egaudet> i just finished make toolchain
Jan 02 08:29:27 <tmzt> only common practice for years with LGPL
Jan 02 08:30:51 <egaudet> my build fails rwhitby
Jan 02 08:31:04 <rwhitby> egaudet: what host OS ?
Jan 02 08:31:16 <egaudet> ubuntu karmic
Jan 02 08:31:21 <egaudet> it's because of the X
Jan 02 08:31:42 <rwhitby> egaudet: I use karmic server, and only install what is needed
Jan 02 08:31:45 <tmzt> what X?
Jan 02 08:31:48 <egaudet> ./configure --host=arm-none-linux-gnueabi --enable-webos --enable-video-opengles --disable-video-x11 --disable-video-directfb --disable-esd
Jan 02 08:32:05 <tmzt> take the host stuff out of PKG_CONFIG_PATH
Jan 02 08:32:08 <tmzt> that's the easy way
Jan 02 08:32:08 <rwhitby> egaudet: make sdl-webos ?
Jan 02 08:32:26 <egaudet> the above configure is what I do locally and it builds.
Jan 02 08:32:46 <egaudet> specifically the disable-video-x11  for the current error I'm getting which is due to select.h from -I/usr/include
Jan 02 08:32:53 <egaudet> contains x86 assembly
Jan 02 08:34:53 <sportman> so is there a way to compile stuff out of a debian chroot now?
Jan 02 08:35:08 <sportman> im curious how they compiled doom
Jan 02 08:35:13 <sportman> or if there is documentation
Jan 02 08:35:14 <egaudet> I got SDL_WebOsEvent.c wrapped with #ifdef PALM (after undef'ing it) to the point where only one error
Jan 02 08:35:24 <oil> zsoc just typed "make"
Jan 02 08:35:25 <tmzt> sportman: huh?
Jan 02 08:35:26 <oil> and whala
Jan 02 08:35:27 <oil> xD
Jan 02 08:35:38 <egaudet> oil, whala without palm's patches
Jan 02 08:35:47 <sportman> tmzt, im wondering if there is documentation on how they compiled doom for web os
Jan 02 08:35:56 <destinal> ack ack s/whala/voila/g
Jan 02 08:36:00 <rwhitby> sportman: "they" == "us"
Jan 02 08:36:15 <sportman> i know they = you guys
Jan 02 08:36:19 <dtzWill> bah it's late
Jan 02 08:36:25 <rwhitby> zsoc|away in particular, and we're getting it to a repeatable state
Jan 02 08:36:28 <dtzWill> anyone know anything about __libc_csu_init and __libc_csu_fini ?
Jan 02 08:36:31 <joshua> phrase it correctly or they can't reveal the secret
Jan 02 08:36:37 <sportman> ps good job :)
Jan 02 08:36:45 <tmzt> csu?
Jan 02 08:36:55 <tmzt> sportman: what does it have to do with debian though?
Jan 02 08:36:55 <sportman> rwhitby did you guys end up documenting it?
Jan 02 08:37:17 <rwhitby> sportman: nope, it really was just "make" in the right build environment
Jan 02 08:37:25 <tmzt> they haven't ended up anything yet
Jan 02 08:37:27 <tmzt> I think
Jan 02 08:37:29 <dtzWill> tmzt: not sure, tbh. something code sourcery specific? their crt1.o references it, which is the core of my current problem
Jan 02 08:37:31 <tmzt> they are still working on it
Jan 02 08:37:41 <tmzt> dtzWill: I don't think anything is cs specific
Jan 02 08:37:43 <rwhitby> dtzWill: I've seen that somewhere before
Jan 02 08:37:43 <tmzt> it's just GNU
Jan 02 08:37:58 <dtzWill> yeah that was a silly thought
Jan 02 08:38:02 <sportman> tmzt a while ago sometimes people would compile stuff in a chrooted debian enviornment on the pre
Jan 02 08:38:04 <rwhitby> tmzt: we're using the cs toolchain
Jan 02 08:38:08 <dtzWill> however it's a real issue :(
Jan 02 08:38:10 <sportman> im not sure how they compile stuf fnow
Jan 02 08:38:33 <rwhitby> sportman: cross-compilation is what we use for all the stuff in the feeds
Jan 02 08:38:48 <tmzt> sportman: sure, that's possible
Jan 02 08:38:50 <dtzWill> the only place i find that symbol defined is  in libc.a shipped with the cs toolchain... but that doesn't seem particularly helpful for something that needs to run on the pre's libc
Jan 02 08:39:03 <tmzt> rwhitby: I know, I mean why would cs have things not in GNU
Jan 02 08:39:08 <tmzt> something that core
Jan 02 08:39:16 <dtzWill> so anyway just wondering if someone out there was "oh i ran into that before" :)
Jan 02 08:39:41 <tmzt> infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.dai0178b/AppNote178.pdf -
Jan 02 08:39:47 <sportman> rwhitby got a link for noobs like me to read up on cross compilation specifically for pre
Jan 02 08:39:59 <tmzt> dtzWill: try google :) it's even in the suggest box for init and fini
Jan 02 08:40:40 <rwhitby> dtzWill: yeah, I ran into it before, but don't remember what I did
Jan 02 08:40:48 <dtzWill> i appreciate that you have information; but i've been googling long before i came to bother you folk with it
Jan 02 08:41:10 <tmzt> --no_ref_cpp_init
Jan 02 08:41:50 <tmzt> apparently it's a difference between arm aeabi c++ support and gnu's
Jan 02 08:41:52 <tmzt>  nstead the GNU C library equivalent, __libc_csu_init(), is
Jan 02 08:41:52 <tmzt> used to perform this initialization as part of the standard GNU
Jan 02 08:41:52 <tmzt> application startup code, and no special linker reference is
Jan 02 08:41:52 <tmzt> required.
Jan 02 08:41:58 <egaudet> rwhitby, any change to the optware ?
Jan 02 08:41:59 <tmzt> that's all I can find
Jan 02 08:42:18 <destinal> ugh.. ldd not working on ARM ..
Jan 02 08:43:09 <tmzt> strings |grep lib
Jan 02 08:43:14 <tmzt> it never works correctly
Jan 02 08:43:35 <destinal> tmzt: yeah, but layer upon layer of that is painful, ldd will quickly say "not found"
Jan 02 08:43:44 <destinal> oh well
Jan 02 08:44:06 <tmzt> oh, this is in a script
Jan 02 08:44:20 <tmzt> yeah, don't listen to me, but it's helpful for putting together rootfs's
Jan 02 08:44:22 <dtzWill> tmzt: tyvm that is very useful and informative
Jan 02 08:45:06 <dtzWill> tmzt: not sure what arm*gcc is doing putting calls to cpp static initializers? but i'll attribute that lack of understanding to the time of night :)
Jan 02 08:45:07 <rwhitby> egaudet: current optware sdl-webos should get all the way to the missing Piranha headers
Jan 02 08:45:19 <rwhitby> egaudet: do you get that far, or are you failing on the toolchain?
Jan 02 08:45:22 <destinal> tmzt: yeah, I guess I could script it..
Jan 02 08:45:40 <egaudet> rwhitby, I'm failing on a earlier file
Jan 02 08:45:41 <tmzt> dtzWill: I'm not either
Jan 02 08:45:56 <rwhitby> sportman: all the optware stuff is compiled using this: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Optware/AddAPackageToOptware
Jan 02 08:45:56 <tmzt> dtzWill: seems this is to make aeabi compatible with linux and gnuc
Jan 02 08:45:59 <egaudet> locally in my other build I just completed a build of the library
Jan 02 08:46:25 <rwhitby> egaudet: an earlier file in a "make sdl-webos" build?
Jan 02 08:46:29 <egaudet> 3 files had to be dummied up
Jan 02 08:46:47 <egaudet> ./src/audio/dma/SDL_dmaaudio.c:166: error: impossible constraint in 'asm'
Jan 02 08:46:56 <rwhitby> egaudet: can you make a -p1 patch of the modified files?
Jan 02 08:47:03 <egaudet> yea
Jan 02 08:47:07 <rwhitby> egaudet: then I can put that in sources/sdl-webos/* in optware
Jan 02 08:47:16 <rwhitby> and automate it
Jan 02 08:47:36 <rwhitby> then you, jacques and I should all be able to get to the same place repeatably
Jan 02 08:48:13 <tmzt> dtzWill: is it possible that Palm built some of this with ARM's compliler?
Jan 02 08:48:16 <tmzt> or toolchain
Jan 02 08:49:02 <dtzWill> tmzt: i don't see why not; but i don't have enough information to assert they did
Jan 02 08:49:46 <egaudet> where do you want the patch
Jan 02 08:49:49 <rwhitby> tmzt: we know that palm use cs07q3armel
Jan 02 08:50:02 <dtzWill> tmzt: my current issue actually was, as a test of getting my cross-compiling setup down, that i can't build sdldoom because of crt1.o's undefined references to __libc_csu_init and ^_fini
Jan 02 08:50:06 <sportman> thanks rwhitby, plannign on giving it a read tomorrow
Jan 02 08:50:07 <rwhitby> egaudet: email to me, until we get you optware commit access
Jan 02 08:50:20 <tmzt> I'm confused by that too
Jan 02 08:50:22 <sportman> what are you guys working on at the moment? :-p
Jan 02 08:50:27 <tmzt> someday I will understand this build stuff
Jan 02 08:50:34 <tmzt> most unix stuff makes perfect sense to me
Jan 02 08:50:50 <tmzt> do you have any static constructors?
Jan 02 08:50:53 <rwhitby> sportman: getting Palm's patched libSDL to cross-compile in an environment we can use to create a stub library that we can then use to port SDL games
Jan 02 08:51:04 <tmzt> like statically initialized c++ class instances?
Jan 02 08:51:20 <tmzt> isn't libSDL full of them?
Jan 02 08:51:33 <rwhitby> egaudet: I'm heading out now
Jan 02 08:51:41 <sportman> that would be great :D
Jan 02 08:51:45 * sportman loves games
Jan 02 08:51:47 <sportman> lol
Jan 02 08:51:50 <egaudet> rwhitby, sent
Jan 02 08:51:57 * rwhitby bbl
Jan 02 08:52:00 <sportman> rwhitby are there plans to develop some sort of joystick overlay?
Jan 02 08:52:04 <sportman> on the touch screen
Jan 02 08:52:08 <sportman> alright ttyls
Jan 02 08:52:28 <destinal> sportman: that would usually be up to the creator / porter of an individual app
Jan 02 08:54:01 <destinal> sportman: since keyboard is somewhat awkward on the pre I imagine we'll see a lot of touchscreen and accelerometer used with a little bit of keyboard, and eventually wiimote etc once we port better bluetooth support
Jan 02 08:55:14 <sportman> :-p
Jan 02 08:55:44 <sportman> sounds good to me :D
Jan 02 08:56:29 <destinal> in the meantime, I should probably sleep a bit (~2am here)
Jan 02 08:56:34 <destinal> night all
Jan 02 09:04:27 <dtzWill> hahaha my little test project is complete: sdldoom compiled, runs, and video is rotated 180 so the keyboard is on the left
Jan 02 09:04:30 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 02 09:04:37 <dtzWill> only took... way too long
Jan 02 09:04:43 <dtzWill> ty everyone :)
Jan 02 09:04:56 <jacques> well I was making a header file NApp_c.h but did we just #define around it?
Jan 02 09:05:18 <jacques> I'm down to constants now
Jan 02 09:05:30 <linksocc> dtzWill: you mind sharing?
Jan 02 09:06:18 <dtzWill> linksocc: at what level did you want me to share? (i'm more than happy to, just not sure what you're asking)
Jan 02 09:06:37 <dtzWill> if you want the binary you can have it, but the keybindings are the same they were originally so that's probably not the most useful
Jan 02 09:06:52 <linksocc> just the binary I guess
Jan 02 09:06:54 <dtzWill> and i'd change them, but see all the work with getting them to work properly
Jan 02 09:07:43 <dtzWill> so not really ready to distribute, but if people want the 180 flip i'd be happy to send a patch for the next release
Jan 02 09:08:18 <linksocc> yeah do it that would make it much better on the thumbs
Jan 02 09:09:13 <dtzWill> to be clear it's only a 180 flip--not a 90 rotate.  so the biggest point was simply that most people are used to movement being in their left hand, etc
Jan 02 09:09:24 <dtzWill> so not sure what you mean about easier on the thumbs, although if it is woo
Jan 02 09:10:10 <rwhitby-pre> nice
Jan 02 09:10:59 <rwhitby-pre> dtzWill: share the build instructions?
Jan 02 09:11:27 <linksocc> well bc my left thumb feels more acure for the small keys for some reason
Jan 02 09:11:40 <ali1> seconded the build instructions
Jan 02 09:12:47 <dtzWill> sure; i can try to consolidate what i was doing
Jan 02 09:12:59 <dtzWill> to be clear i'm using (mostly) the libraries on the pre
Jan 02 09:13:13 <dtzWill> (as opposed to this new libsdl approach)
Jan 02 09:13:23 <rwhitby-pre> native build, ok
Jan 02 09:13:36 <dtzWill> well native libraries, but cross-compiled
Jan 02 09:13:51 <dtzWill> so i wouldn't call it native build, but if you would, then sure :)
Jan 02 09:15:22 <rwhitby-pre> ah, I see.
Jan 02 09:15:26 <rwhitby-pre> good plan
Jan 02 09:15:49 <rwhitby-pre> which headers?
Jan 02 09:16:47 <dtzWill> well this is kinda lame but for the libsdl headers i'm actually using my system's, which is a complete hack. that said, it would be the same as vanilla of the libsdl palm uses if i had done it 'right'
Jan 02 09:17:08 <rwhitby-pre> ok
Jan 02 09:17:22 <dtzWill> sorry to be disappointing, it was mostly an exercise in trying to figure out what was possible, and not driven by elegant design decisions
Jan 02 09:17:32 <rwhitby-pre> yeah, zsoc said plain headers works for doom
Jan 02 09:17:48 <rwhitby-pre> it's good to do both in parallel
Jan 02 09:18:06 <dtzWill> also i wanted to learn enough SDL to make the video flip :) hehe
Jan 02 09:18:34 <dtzWill> errr rotate
Jan 02 09:18:36 <dtzWill> you get the idea
Jan 02 09:20:17 <dtzWill> ali1: if you're still interested in what i got up and running i can throw together some instructions at some point, but I don't think i did anything that wasn't done before.... just did it again myself heh
Jan 02 09:20:50 <dtzWill> so if you're up with what i think zsoc was doing then i think it might not be a significant contribution
Jan 02 09:21:16 <dtzWill> although that csu_init/csu_fini stuff was crazy
Jan 02 09:22:13 <ali1> the one thing i didn't get is if you didn't modify the doom source, where did you set up the key binds
Jan 02 09:22:28 <ali1> thats kind of why i want to know the build process
Jan 02 09:23:22 <dtzWill> ah, you aren't interested in the toolchain insanity haha
Jan 02 09:23:34 <ali1> i already have my tool chain set up, heh
Jan 02 09:24:00 <ali1> i just recompiled ffmpeg and that seems to work
Jan 02 09:24:32 <dtzWill> ali1: !! excellent
Jan 02 09:24:54 <dtzWill> yeah i'm happy that i have a toolchain configured, can get cracking on some stuff
Jan 02 09:25:04 <dtzWill> ffmpeg can be a real pain, so congrats on that
Jan 02 09:25:30 <ali1> actually it was simple since running ffmpeg on the pre will spit out options used for configure
Jan 02 09:25:34 <dtzWill> i didn't play with the keybindings, so they're whatever worthless defaults they normally are
Jan 02 09:25:50 <rwhitby-pre> you guys got any build environments set up, like OpenEmbedded or something?
Jan 02 09:25:55 <ali1> i just copied those and replaced whatever i needed
Jan 02 09:26:17 <ali1> i'm using code sourcery package
Jan 02 09:26:21 <dtzWill> ali1: gotcha, smart approach :).
Jan 02 09:26:28 <dtzWill> rwhitby-pre: i'm also using the code sourcery
Jan 02 09:26:31 <egaudet> rwhitby-pre, so we can check against the include/SDL_config.h file to get the correct configure
Jan 02 09:27:01 <rwhitby-pre> build env, not toolchain
Jan 02 09:27:10 <rwhitby-pre> e.g. for an autobuilder
Jan 02 09:27:16 <rwhitby-pre> egaudet: nod
Jan 02 09:27:26 <ali1> oh, nope.
Jan 02 09:27:27 <egaudet> although I can't get some things right with my set up
Jan 02 09:27:32 <egaudet> like the alsa
Jan 02 09:27:35 <jacques> touch /home/packages/nslu2/optware-svn-20100102.a/pre/builds/sdl-webos/.built
Jan 02 09:27:43 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: it built
Jan 02 09:27:45 <dtzWill> rwhitby-pre: i think my misunderstanding of your question answers it :)
Jan 02 09:28:46 <dtzWill> ali1: so were you able to in fact build doom, just not the keybindings? b/c i had assumed that other than the sdl lameness zsoc was talking about that changing keybindings would be easy (via rc file)
Jan 02 09:29:02 <rwhitby-pre> jacques: nice - committing changes back to optware?
Jan 02 09:29:46 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: I made two header files: napp/NApp_c.h and PalmVibe.h, then copied libnapp.so libpalmvibe.so libPiranha.so into pre/staging/opt/lib
Jan 02 09:30:14 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: what's best way to handle the two header files?
Jan 02 09:30:21 <dtzWill> jacques: so you can build the patched libsdl now?  !
Jan 02 09:30:37 <jacques> dtzWill: FWIW, yes
Jan 02 09:30:43 <ali1> dtzWill: i haven't tried building it yet but i'm pretty sure i can when i get to it
Jan 02 09:30:47 <rwhitby-pre> jacques: just a patch?
Jan 02 09:31:02 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: OK
Jan 02 09:31:08 <dtzWill> jacques: nice
Jan 02 09:32:28 <ali1> trying to compile this gst plugin is driving me crazy
Jan 02 09:36:07 * Jack87-WebIRC watches all the excitment before bed
Jan 02 09:36:57 * ali1 needs to look into an extensive tutorial in linux build environments
Jan 02 09:37:05 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: you just edit the .doomrc file in the doom bin directory
Jan 02 09:38:36 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: you define the keys via ascii but for some reason it doesnt like some keys on the original doom. zsoc sent me a custom binary that allowed me to use ascii to define my keys but i cant get up and down to work in the menu screen strafe left and back still act funky as hell
Jan 02 09:39:50 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: oh that explains part of what's going on at my end
Jan 02 09:40:03 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: what is going on
Jan 02 09:40:22 <dtzWill> since there's no published sdldoom patch i assumed they built it using the vanilla
Jan 02 09:40:47 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: there isn't a make target which unpacks but does not configure? am I missing some clever way to generate the patch?
Jan 02 09:41:36 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: i haven't tested too extensively, but lots of keyboard weirdness.
Jan 02 09:41:48 <rwhitby-pre> jacques: I just run diff manually, put it in sources, then add to .mk and rebuild
Jan 02 09:42:01 <acydlord> night gents
Jan 02 09:42:03 <dtzWill> i expected the same rc to work the same since i didn't touch that code; but if they're using a special binary that parses it differently than that could be it
Jan 02 09:42:20 <egaudet> where does one get opengles
Jan 02 09:43:30 <rwhitby-pre> zsoc said there was no patches required, but that's why I want to rebuild to check
Jan 02 09:43:33 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: OK. I guess I'm just blanking on how to run diff against nothing
Jan 02 09:43:38 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: ya i believe so.
Jan 02 09:43:48 <egaudet> no patches required for what?
Jan 02 09:43:49 <rwhitby-pre> diff -BurN
Jan 02 09:44:06 <egaudet> doom?
Jan 02 09:44:07 <rwhitby-pre> sdldoom
Jan 02 09:44:20 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: thanks
Jan 02 09:44:21 <dtzWill> well it doesn't work here, same rc, replaced the one shipped from preware
Jan 02 09:44:33 <dtzWill> using the sdldoom sources from the webos-internals git repo
Jan 02 09:45:08 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: he posted a link to the binary he sent me which actually uses standard ascii i can try to find it in the log... but ya menu up and down dont work and neither does strafeleft and back keys
Jan 02 09:45:55 <egaudet> i can't get the alsa or opengles to configure properly just by using ./configure, so I'm just hacking configure screw it
Jan 02 09:48:28 <tmzt> why not?
Jan 02 09:48:38 <tmzt> I'm sure some alsa utilities are missing
Jan 02 09:48:44 <tmzt> is gles using pkg-config?
Jan 02 09:48:46 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: to be clear, without this new ascii binary even less than what you said would be working right?
Jan 02 09:49:15 <Jack87-WebIRC> egaudet: go ask the guys at #sdl ?
Jan 02 09:49:26 <dtzWill> only things i have working are strafe right and fire... afaict--maybe some obscure things but certainly not the same movement that was possible on the preware version
Jan 02 09:49:37 <egaudet> it's palm added stuff
Jan 02 09:49:57 <tmzt> ascii binary?
Jan 02 09:50:41 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: kind of... without the new binary its hard to customize some of the keys.. if i remember righ y and j and like m were not actual ascii standard values without the new binary
Jan 02 09:51:15 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: okay. i'm not trying to change anything, i'm just using the .doomrc that shipped in preware.
Jan 02 09:51:32 <dtzWill> tmzt: sorry that was unfortunatel ambiguous. i meant the new binary that parses the rc ascii values better
Jan 02 09:51:41 <dtzWill> +y
Jan 02 09:52:59 <Jack87-WebIRC> hum... i think zsoc said he had to mess with the binary  a ton before he could get the key bindings to work
Jan 02 09:54:12 <rwhitby-pre> which indicates a missing patch for the changes he made
Jan 02 09:54:57 <dtzWill> oh foo. sdlquake causes the compiler to segfault x.x
Jan 02 09:55:32 <dtzWill> hmm wait i think i missed a line
Jan 02 09:55:33 <dtzWill> haaha
Jan 02 09:56:01 <Jack87-WebIRC> Dec 31 08:45:09 <zsoc> ok fixed key mapping Dec 31 08:45:27 <zsoc> and by fixed i mean "hack till i broke it"
Jan 02 09:59:15 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby-pre: yes... earlier today he posted a different doom binary file yo use because the original he wrote acted fun while keymapping via ascii values
Jan 02 10:00:01 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby-pre: but this new binary file does not map the up and down keys while in the menu screen :( his not sure why. any ideas?
Jan 02 10:00:12 <rwhitby-pre> no
Jan 02 10:00:21 <egaudet> well I got the configure line, I just can't get alsa or opengles to work right locally
Jan 02 10:01:05 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: OK patch made and sdl-webos.mk modified - how do I commit those?
Jan 02 10:02:09 <rwhitby-pre> using https://...
Jan 02 10:05:44 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: committed
Jan 02 10:06:00 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: but remember what I said about having to copy those libs into staging
Jan 02 10:06:09 <rwhitby-pre> will replicate when I get home
Jan 02 10:06:12 <jacques> this patch does not address that (of course)
Jan 02 10:06:39 <rwhitby-pre> jacques: we'll need to do a doctor unpack for those, like we used to for nslu2
Jan 02 10:06:54 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: makes sense
Jan 02 10:07:16 <jacques> hmm, optware doesn't know about the doctor
Jan 02 10:07:31 <egaudet> rwhitby-pre, are you not doing autogen.sh in optware?
Jan 02 10:08:20 <egaudet> what's the svn equivalent of git pull ?
Jan 02 10:09:02 <jacques> svn up
Jan 02 10:09:03 <dtzWill> svn up
Jan 02 10:10:16 <rwhitby-pre> egaudet: we are - did you svn up?
Jan 02 10:12:11 <jacques> rwhitby-pre: I just started with a clean optware checkout, and sdl-webos failed on the link (as I would expect)
Jan 02 10:12:22 <rwhitby-pre> cool
Jan 02 10:13:16 <rwhitby-pre> jacques: so we shared lib link, then package, autobuild, then unpack in preware build staging
Jan 02 10:13:38 <rwhitby-pre> then start on sdldoom
Jan 02 10:13:40 <egaudet> we need to get opengles in there
Jan 02 10:14:44 <jacques> yeah I should try staging it
Jan 02 10:16:11 <rwhitby-pre> I just had a thought - if we can get the right sdl headers, we can just do the doctor unpack trick for the libs in preware staging
Jan 02 10:16:45 <tmzt> why isn't it building though?
Jan 02 10:16:49 <tmzt> just that armel error?
Jan 02 10:17:28 <egaudet> one of you with optware access want to add the following to the configure
Jan 02 10:18:11 <egaudet> --disable-cdrom --disable-diskaudio --disable-esd --disable-oss --disable-video-oga --disable-video-directfb --disable-video-dummy --disable-video-x11
Jan 02 10:18:51 <rwhitby-pre> egaudet: optware is working for you now?
Jan 02 10:19:54 <egaudet> with the above fixes yea
Jan 02 10:20:15 <egaudet> all the way to linking
Jan 02 10:20:17 <rwhitby-pre> excellent - that's three then
Jan 02 10:21:01 <rwhitby-pre> egaudet: what do you think of optware as a build env?
Jan 02 10:21:07 <egaudet> and then we are only missing alsa + opengles to get the configure working as Palm's
Jan 02 10:21:18 <egaudet> I think it's fine
Jan 02 10:21:39 <rwhitby-pre> alsa should be in optware
Jan 02 10:21:53 <rwhitby-pre> make alsa-stage or something
Jan 02 10:22:56 <egaudet> alsa-lib-stage
Jan 02 10:23:04 <jacques> we are agreed on those configure changes?
Jan 02 10:23:18 <jacques> (they look fine to me)
Jan 02 10:23:38 <dtzWill> haha sdlquake on the pre :D
Jan 02 10:23:53 <egaudet> well they check out with the resultant SDL_config.h file in the Palm patch
Jan 02 10:24:00 <dtzWill> don't have keys working yet, and framerate seems a wee bit slow but there's all KINDS of reasons for that
Jan 02 10:24:39 <dtzWill> but still sweet 3d goodness
Jan 02 10:24:40 <rwhitby-pre> dtzWill: sounds like we need to get you set up commit access
Jan 02 10:24:58 <dtzWill> sounds good :)
Jan 02 10:25:18 <egaudet> I get errors building alsa-lib-stage
Jan 02 10:25:27 <dtzWill> although i think i'll need to spend some time merging into the nice staging stuff you've done--in particular regarding libsdl
Jan 02 10:26:16 <dtzWill> but quake!! haha
Jan 02 10:26:19 * dtzWill is having too much fun
Jan 02 10:26:40 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: any progress with quake?
Jan 02 10:26:52 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: i can run it
Jan 02 10:26:58 <zinge> not sure if it matters, or is already known, but the sdldoom process doesn't seem to close when the card is tossed
Jan 02 10:27:00 <dtzWill> and the startup demo works just great
Jan 02 10:27:20 <dtzWill> haven't tried keybindings yet, don't seem to work immediatley
Jan 02 10:27:23 <dtzWill> BUT 3d quake goodness
Jan 02 10:27:23 <dtzWill> hah
Jan 02 10:27:27 <tmzt> why is alsa required to be binary?
Jan 02 10:27:27 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: wow very nice.
Jan 02 10:27:37 <tmzt> something is patched for omap? that makes no sense
Jan 02 10:27:51 <tmzt> also, if alsa is working on pixi would be very good to know
Jan 02 10:28:05 <Jack87-WebIRC> did original quake have mouse controls for looking up and down i cant recall (was too young at the time)
Jan 02 10:28:45 <dtzWill> bah i get q1 and q2 confused
Jan 02 10:28:47 <dtzWill> i thought q1 did
Jan 02 10:28:50 <jacques> ouch, 4:30am here
Jan 02 10:28:58 <dtzWill> jacques: same :(
Jan 02 10:29:01 <egaudet> rwhitby-pre, or jacques could either of you verify the SDL_config.h after building alsa and sdl-webos contains: #define SDL_AUDIO_DRIVER_ALSA_DYNAMIC "libasound.so.2"
Jan 02 10:29:12 <zinge> pshh, it's 530am here :-)
Jan 02 10:29:26 <rwhitby-pre> 9pm here :-)
Jan 02 10:29:38 <zinge> silly australia :-p
Jan 02 10:29:41 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: looking at youtube vide doesnt look like quake 1 did...
Jan 02 10:29:46 <rwhitby-pre> egaudet: will do when I get home
Jan 02 10:30:08 <egaudet> alright I'm going to bed
Jan 02 10:30:27 <dtzWill> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK0xwQ9mYmc
Jan 02 10:30:30 <Jack87-WebIRC> we will have to see duke nukem on here.. all the original 3d shooters
Jan 02 10:30:49 <zinge> wolfenstein?
Jan 02 10:30:59 <dtzWill> youtube seems to suggest it did?
Jan 02 10:31:01 <dtzWill> (see link)
Jan 02 10:31:16 <Jack87-WebIRC> zinge: yes that to
Jan 02 10:31:22 <jacques> make alsa-lib-stage didn't work
Jan 02 10:31:28 <jacques> build error
Jan 02 10:31:50 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: you are right it does in that video.. .the one i watched didnt. hum intresting
Jan 02 10:33:35 <dtzWill> meh anyway good times. it'll take some more effort to make it a solid app (good controls, etc) but seeing some q1 goodness on my phone is a nice reward for the toolchain fun :)
Jan 02 10:33:47 <dtzWill> so with that i think i'm gonna hit the hay
Jan 02 10:33:55 <dtzWill> 'night all, gl and good work :)
Jan 02 10:33:55 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: i wonder if there is a chance to key bind gesture area for weapon changes when running finger across from one side to the other like in application switching from screen lock app
Jan 02 10:34:17 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: goodnight!
Jan 02 10:34:27 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: no idea about keybinding but i don't see why some change could be make to make that happen... eventually :)
Jan 02 10:34:31 <joshua> i dont think duke was ever fully open sourced, so the closest you are gonna get its the port on icculus.org
Jan 02 10:35:09 <joshua> you know what would be cool... dosbox
Jan 02 10:35:18 <Jack87-WebIRC> joshua: i am glad you are on top of finding this stuff :)
Jan 02 10:35:50 <joshua> i was a part of the whole linux gaming community for a while. heh
Jan 02 10:36:02 <joshua> worked for loki for a bit doing QA/support
Jan 02 10:36:31 <Jack87-WebIRC> very nice
Jan 02 10:37:15 <Jack87-WebIRC> joshua: know of any emulators worthy of porting?
Jan 02 10:37:54 <joshua> this would definitely be cool to have http://scummvm.sourceforge.net/
Jan 02 10:38:22 <rwhitby-pre> yeah, scummvm
Jan 02 10:38:25 <dtzWill> oooo
Jan 02 10:38:29 <dtzWill> errr i mean i'm sleeping
Jan 02 10:38:30 <dtzWill> :)
Jan 02 10:39:43 <Jack87-WebIRC> lol dtzWill
Jan 02 10:39:59 <Jack87-WebIRC> ya scummvm b pretty sweet.. nice collection!
Jan 02 10:40:37 <joshua> theres a genesis emulator for SDL http://tamentis.com/projects/dgen/
Jan 02 10:41:48 <dtzWill> fwiw, to leave you with something: http://wdtz.org/files/sdlquake and run it with the shareware stuff http://www.libsdl.org/projects/quake/data/quakesw-1.0.6.tar.gz
Jan 02 10:41:52 <dtzWill> run as root
Jan 02 10:42:02 <dtzWill> and see some 3d goodness haha
Jan 02 10:43:04 <joshua> quake would be a real 3D test, doom was written before 3D hardware. heh
Jan 02 10:43:51 <Jack87-WebIRC> where does one learn to port these suckers
Jan 02 10:44:16 <rwhitby> dtzWill: thx - mind if we package that up?
Jan 02 10:44:32 <dtzWill> disclaimer on the above: only grab that if you want to see the startup demo and stuff--the keybindings don't work yet
Jan 02 10:44:41 <Jack87-WebIRC> if i just ran the sdl quake file via terminal would it run
Jan 02 10:44:54 <dtzWill> rwhitby: absolutely, and other than it being late i'd be happy to help package it
Jan 02 10:45:04 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: yes, if you had the shareware stuff
Jan 02 10:45:22 <dtzWill> or if you don't wanna ssh in you can wget it from terminal and then tar xvf it
Jan 02 10:45:24 <rwhitby> dtzWill: git clone preware/build.git
Jan 02 10:45:31 <dtzWill> rwhitby: yep i got that
Jan 02 10:45:46 <rwhitby> dtzWill: ok, so you see how things are done?
Jan 02 10:46:17 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: you better head out before you know it youll be up another few hours
Jan 02 10:46:20 <rwhitby> dtzWill: I /msg'd you my email address for your public ssh key
Jan 02 10:46:34 <dtzWill> rwhitby: I believe so--i could probably make the wrapper etc, it made sense to me earlier when i was looking at it
Jan 02 10:46:42 <dtzWill> and mirroring existing work is a lot easier :):)
Jan 02 10:47:07 <rwhitby> dtzWill: that's why I want to get sdldoom building in there, then others can mirror that
Jan 02 10:47:26 <dtzWill> understood
Jan 02 10:48:37 <rwhitby> dtzWill: what's your background in open source development?
Jan 02 10:49:46 <dtzWill> rwhitby: had similar fun on the iphone back before the real sdk, wrote a few apps-- http://inewsgroup.googlecode.com in particular
Jan 02 10:50:10 <dtzWill> but as for working in larger open source groups, less unfortunately
Jan 02 10:50:46 <rwhitby> dtzWill: where's the source link for sdlquake?
Jan 02 10:50:51 <dtzWill> but helped (where i could) tackle some of the same issues with the iphone, worked a bit with saurik_noping, etc
Jan 02 10:51:03 <dtzWill> http://www.libsdl.org/projects/quake/src/sdlquake-1.0.9.tar.gz
Jan 02 10:51:14 <dtzWill> from http://www.libsdl.org/projects/quake/
Jan 02 10:51:27 <lt83850> inewsgroups?
Jan 02 10:51:30 <rwhitby> dtzWill: thx - I'll package this up as Quake Demo
Jan 02 10:51:31 <lt83850> client for iphone?
Jan 02 10:51:35 <lt83850> usenet
Jan 02 10:51:36 <lt83850> ?
Jan 02 10:51:40 <dtzWill> lt83850: yep yep
Jan 02 10:51:43 <lt83850> nice
Jan 02 10:52:08 <xcomp> rwhitby: quake in preware? Big win.
Jan 02 10:52:12 <dtzWill> lt83850: yeah, i rewrote it for the sdk but i got busy and that didn't pan out... so never had a chance to hit the app store with it (for free, but still)
Jan 02 10:52:43 <rwhitby> dtzWill: running quake now - yep, this is worth packaging as a demo, just for the "one game every 2 days" newsworthyness of it ;-)
Jan 02 10:52:55 <dtzWill> rwhitby: haha excellent
Jan 02 10:53:08 <dtzWill> also i sent you my key lemme know when you get it
Jan 02 10:53:18 <rwhitby> dtzWill: let me know how you'd like to be referred to in the attribution ?
Jan 02 10:53:43 <rwhitby> dtzWill: got the email, but no attachment that I can see
Jan 02 10:54:05 <dtzWill> "Will Dietz (dtzWill)" or similiar, whatever parallels the existing attribution style
Jan 02 10:55:25 <dtzWill> rwhitby: well that's a shame. sorry about that
Jan 02 10:56:02 <Jack87-WebIRC> where do i place the sdlquake file? in the folder of the shareware stuff after i tar -xdf?
Jan 02 10:56:11 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: yep
Jan 02 10:56:19 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: err
Jan 02 10:56:26 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: to be clear, it'll extract into /id1
Jan 02 10:56:45 <dtzWill> you want sdlquake at the same level as the id1 directory
Jan 02 10:56:47 <dtzWill> not inside the id1
Jan 02 10:56:54 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: awesome thanks.. i am so new kind of a dummy sorry
Jan 02 10:57:08 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: no apologies needed, glad it works
Jan 02 10:57:44 <rwhitby> dtzWill: key received and added.
Jan 02 10:57:50 <dtzWill> rwhitby: thanks
Jan 02 10:58:03 <rwhitby> dtzWill: it'll be in games/sdlquake
Jan 02 10:58:05 <Jack87-WebIRC> cant figure out how to run it. i keep getting permission denied
Jan 02 10:58:09 <dtzWill> rwhitby: i think then i'll take your advice, and get some sleep before i'm here forever :)
Jan 02 10:58:13 <dtzWill> rwhitby: sounds perfect
Jan 02 10:58:17 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: chmod ugo+x sdlquake
Jan 02 10:59:28 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: thanks... that worked.. now i am lacking the wad file :-/
Jan 02 11:00:20 <Jack87-WebIRC> do i need to extract pak file some how?
Jan 02 11:01:34 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: i'll msg you and work this out, hopefully :)
Jan 02 11:01:48 * rwhitby starts packaging - should take about 15 to 30 mins
Jan 02 11:02:30 <joshua> the pak goes in id1 directory
Jan 02 11:03:17 <dtzWill> rwhitby: sounds good, ty
Jan 02 11:04:46 <joshua> heres some demo file mirrors http://www.filewatcher.com/m/quake106.zip.9094045.0.0.html
Jan 02 11:05:34 <joshua> erm but its compressed heh
Jan 02 11:07:02 <joshua> need to use lha to decompress resource.1
Jan 02 11:08:59 <joshua> well thats how you do it from the CD anyway
Jan 02 11:09:19 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC says that the keybindings from doom work for him
Jan 02 11:09:31 <dtzWill> err maybe not
Jan 02 11:09:40 <dtzWill> sorry Jack87-WebIRC, i got excited
Jan 02 11:09:46 <dtzWill> however apparently it crashes when he starts a new  game
Jan 02 11:09:57 <dtzWill> just fyi
Jan 02 11:10:03 <dtzWill> but we knew there was work to be done
Jan 02 11:10:22 <joshua> is there a config file? and is it writable... maybe you can get a log as to why it crashes
Jan 02 11:10:31 <rwhitby> dtzWill: maybe I'll package and push it to the feeds, but not announce it - see who finds it :-)
Jan 02 11:10:56 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: did you try to run new game yet?
Jan 02 11:11:14 <rwhitby> nope
Jan 02 11:11:19 <Jack87-WebIRC> might just be my phone that crashes... who knows
Jan 02 11:11:41 <rwhitby> worked for me - threw away one card, and started another
Jan 02 11:12:00 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: running the game works fine... but starting a new game
Jan 02 11:12:16 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: hit some keyboard keys it will bring up menu and enter button works
Jan 02 11:12:55 <dtzWill> yeah now i'm curious
Jan 02 11:12:56 <dtzWill> god dammit
Jan 02 11:12:56 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 02 11:14:17 <Jack87-WebIRC> try it on yours
Jan 02 11:15:45 <dtzWill> trying
Jan 02 11:17:13 <dtzWill> hmm
Jan 02 11:17:27 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: yeah, new game segfaults
Jan 02 11:17:33 <ali1> build environments are mind numbingly useful
Jan 02 11:18:05 <dtzWill> ali1: oh?
Jan 02 11:18:53 <ali1> its a lot less messy than hacking away at configure/Makefile scripts
Jan 02 11:20:16 <rwhitby> ali1: which are you using?
Jan 02 11:20:36 <ali1> scratchbox, i wanna take a look at openembedded later
Jan 02 11:21:45 <rwhitby> yeah, I'd like to get OE with an external toolchain set up
Jan 02 11:21:52 <rwhitby> I could never get scratchbox to work
Jan 02 11:22:22 <rwhitby> ok, packaging done, just waiting for my slow upload link
Jan 02 11:22:50 <ali1> scratchbox was pretty simple on my ubuntu vm
Jan 02 11:22:58 <tmzt> switch to qemu-arm
Jan 02 11:23:01 <tmzt> or maybe obs
Jan 02 11:23:04 <tmzt> like mer is doing
Jan 02 11:23:10 <tmzt> sbox2 is not too bad
Jan 02 11:24:41 <Jack87-WebIRC> Segmentation fault
Jan 02 11:24:53 <ali1> yeah those things are awesome
Jan 02 11:25:01 <Jack87-WebIRC> whats that mean anyway rwhitby
Jan 02 11:25:17 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: what's that?
Jan 02 11:25:23 <tmzt> something bad happened
Jan 02 11:25:30 <tmzt> usually a bad/null pointer
Jan 02 11:25:37 <tmzt> but you have to use gdb to find out what
Jan 02 11:25:56 <rwhitby> usually dereferencing a null pointer
Jan 02 11:26:28 <dtzWill> didn't even occur to me to check for gdb in ipkg
Jan 02 11:26:42 <rwhitby> dtzWill: should be there in optare
Jan 02 11:26:47 <rwhitby> optware
Jan 02 11:26:52 <rwhitby> ipkg-opt
Jan 02 11:26:57 <dtzWill> yeah, it is
Jan 02 11:27:06 <dtzWill> just didn't hit me; i assumed my phone had no debugger
Jan 02 11:27:14 <dtzWill> certainly not one i could easily install :o)
Jan 02 11:27:29 <rwhitby> dtzWill: we can get you commit access to that too ;-)
Jan 02 11:28:10 <dtzWill> hehe :D
Jan 02 11:28:43 <rwhitby> ok, this upload is going to take some time, and I need to go out for an hour or so, the autobuilder might even build and release it while I'm gone ...
Jan 02 11:29:07 <tmzt> so is there a fully standalone obs?
Jan 02 11:29:13 <tmzt> like one you can download/install
Jan 02 11:29:39 <rwhitby> obs?
Jan 02 11:30:01 <tmzt> sorry, wrong channel
Jan 02 11:30:15 <tmzt> opensuse build system
Jan 02 11:32:14 <Jack87-WebIRC> well here is a teaser for people for now
Jan 02 11:32:19 <Jack87-WebIRC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVdhJC63ThQ
Jan 02 11:33:13 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: added to webosinternals channel
Jan 02 11:34:27 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: awesome
Jan 02 11:35:14 <hape> Jack87-WebIRC: Dose the video work for you? cannot play it in FF
Jan 02 11:35:37 <rwhitby> works here
Jan 02 11:35:46 <Jack87-WebIRC> hape: seems to work
Jan 02 11:35:54 <Jack87-WebIRC> my first youtube upload lol
Jan 02 11:36:28 <hape> hmm, only get a timeline of 37sec and a black sceen ind IE and FF
Jan 02 11:36:53 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: so both our firsts are in that channel :-)  I expect it's not Dieter's first.
Jan 02 11:36:54 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby:  link me to the channel
Jan 02 11:37:09 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: just tweeted it
Jan 02 11:37:19 <Jack87-WebIRC> haha i dont tweet
Jan 02 11:37:35 <rwhitby> http://twitter.com/webosinternals
Jan 02 11:37:42 <rwhitby> you can also guess the youtube from that ;-)
Jan 02 11:37:44 <Jack87-WebIRC> i honestly dont know the first thing about tweting
Jan 02 11:37:55 <rwhitby> neither did I before this project
Jan 02 11:38:28 <rwhitby> upload done, let's see if it builds
Jan 02 11:39:34 <rwhitby> autobuilder has it
Jan 02 11:40:23 <rwhitby> 9MB ipk
Jan 02 11:40:39 <hape> Jack87-WebIRC: It works from the webosinternas youtoob channel. Sorry, don't knw why it was hanging
Jan 02 11:40:57 * rwhitby has first time packaging success ;-)
Jan 02 11:41:14 <rwhitby> hape: probably still converting or something
Jan 02 11:41:30 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: you havent packaged before?
Jan 02 11:42:01 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: no, I didn't test anything before pushing it to the autobuilder.  no typos.
Jan 02 11:42:46 <hape> that is ansom, hope we get 1.3.5 soon in germany
Jan 02 11:43:10 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: should i see it in preware now?
Jan 02 11:43:18 <rwhitby> *now*
Jan 02 11:43:23 <hape> must start to dig aout the old Doom/quke CDs to have the full wad files hand when it comes ..
Jan 02 11:46:04 <dtzWill> fixed the crash on new game
Jan 02 11:46:21 <ali1> what was it?
Jan 02 11:46:22 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: does it start new game?
Jan 02 11:46:24 <dtzWill> havent looked at the keybindings
Jan 02 11:46:25 <rwhitby> works
Jan 02 11:46:27 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: yes
Jan 02 11:46:31 <dtzWill> but you can't move since no keys
Jan 02 11:46:32 <dtzWill> haah
Jan 02 11:46:39 <Jack87-WebIRC> nice.. link to the new files?
Jan 02 11:46:43 <rwhitby> installed with Preware - launcher also worked first time without testing :-)
Jan 02 11:46:50 <dtzWill> rwhitby: NICE :)
Jan 02 11:47:00 <dtzWill> ali1: the biggest thing was giving it more memory
Jan 02 11:47:01 <rwhitby> it's in Preware now
Jan 02 11:47:15 <dtzWill> i also did a few things from the maemo port
Jan 02 11:47:28 <dtzWill> removed the icon that shows disk i/o, ec
Jan 02 11:47:29 <dtzWill> *etc
Jan 02 11:47:34 <dtzWill> (they claim that was buggy)
Jan 02 11:47:52 <dtzWill> fwiw afaik keybindings should just be that autoexec.cfg
Jan 02 11:47:56 <dtzWill> if someone wants to try
Jan 02 11:48:01 <rwhitby> dtzWill: how long did it take to port?
Jan 02 11:48:19 <dtzWill> years
Jan 02 11:48:20 <dtzWill> >_>
Jan 02 11:48:25 <dtzWill> i actually don't remember
Jan 02 11:48:41 <dtzWill> but 5 hours? not much
Jan 02 11:48:42 <rwhitby> less than 4 hours?
Jan 02 11:48:45 <dtzWill> maybe?
Jan 02 11:49:03 <dtzWill> why? :)
Jan 02 11:49:09 <rwhitby> for the tweet of course
Jan 02 11:49:14 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: zsoc ported another game today on the fly with the pre itself no computer. not sure what you should ask him
Jan 02 11:49:26 <rwhitby> dtzWill: are you following @webosinternals ?
Jan 02 11:49:44 <dtzWill> yes i am
Jan 02 11:49:45 <dtzWill> :)
Jan 02 11:49:45 <rwhitby> dtzWill: got a twitter name?
Jan 02 11:49:47 <dtzWill> wdtz
Jan 02 11:50:48 <dtzWill> ali1: actually i also changed the optimization level, haven't verified fix holds after removing so here's hoping compiler isn't being annoying
Jan 02 11:52:12 <dtzWill> ali1: and fixed some printf trigraph stuff, not really sure what that was about
Jan 02 11:52:29 <dtzWill> sorry for the verbose-ish changelog, you asked :)
Jan 02 11:52:39 <rwhitby> dtzWill: you have all the commit rights you need to update the version if you want
Jan 02 11:53:09 <ali1> no thats cool its what i wanted to know
Jan 02 11:53:31 <dtzWill> arg looks like the dang compiler is causing issues
Jan 02 11:53:32 <rwhitby> dtzWill: tag the games/sdlquake.git repo, then use the same tag in the VERSION string in preware/build.git/apps/sdlquake/Makefile.  Push both and the autobuilder does the rest.
Jan 02 11:53:52 <hape> jep quake needs a config.cfg file with the key binings
Jan 02 11:54:00 <hape> I have one handy if it is neede
Jan 02 11:54:16 <dtzWill> hape: a config for the pre?
Jan 02 11:54:43 <dtzWill> rwhitby: gimme a sec, i'm a bit of a git n00b for whatever reason i've mostly used svn
Jan 02 11:54:44 <Jack87-WebIRC> by the way rwhitby preware version launches on the spot
Jan 02 11:55:19 <hape> no from the win/dos version. I expect them to be the same
Jan 02 11:55:27 <hape> as it only setzt the keys
Jan 02 11:55:42 <hape> all like: bind / "impulse 10            "
Jan 02 11:55:48 <rwhitby> dtzWill: I'm afk for some time soon
Jan 02 11:56:15 <dtzWill> rwhitby: okay ty for the heads up
Jan 02 11:57:13 <rwhitby> dtzWill: what's there is good enough for the next hours :-)
Jan 02 11:58:11 <dtzWill> :)
Jan 02 12:04:30 * rwhitby bbt
Jan 02 12:04:41 <rwhitby> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2123142
Jan 02 12:06:04 <Jack87-WebIRC> i added my reply :)
Jan 02 12:13:13 * ali1 compiles... compiles...... compiles.........
Jan 02 12:16:42 <en0x> looks like now u have fun with sdl
Jan 02 12:16:43 <en0x> ;]
Jan 02 12:30:22 <geist> sdl is fun
Jan 02 12:30:32 <geist> i use it a lot for all my gfx projects
Jan 02 12:31:23 <en0x> can u write a rich game by using sdl?
Jan 02 12:32:46 <geist> i've been working on a game engine off and on for the last year
Jan 02 12:42:37 <Jack87-WebIRC> Yay for Quake http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/222222-quake.html
Jan 02 12:48:10 <lt83850> nice
Jan 02 13:02:22 <jettero> where is that page that shows starting appplications from the command line, rescanning, things like that
Jan 02 13:03:43 <jettero> ahh, Luna_Send
Jan 02 13:23:44 <hape> dtzWill: here are the key bindig from the dos version if it helps to get the right config files into the id2 folder
Jan 02 13:23:54 <hape> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2123187&posted=1#post2123187
Jan 02 13:34:23 <freakout> Woah. Quake now?
Jan 02 13:56:03 <nfoxTc> finally got preware working guys
Jan 02 13:57:09 <nfoxTc> now does anyone know what the back button is in doom :p
Jan 02 15:06:57 <rlopin> Just saw quake demo on Preware. It looks great.
Jan 02 15:12:38 <rlopin> Hi zsoc -- love the Doom port. It is quite playable after you practice for a few minutes with the keyboard.
Jan 02 15:14:50 <zsoc> rlopin: hopefully wahots will fix palms keybinding issues :)
Jan 02 15:15:07 <zsoc> wheres the webos hacker extrodinaire that ported sdlquake?
Jan 02 15:15:44 <zsoc> I'm curious how he got around the x86 assembly issue...
Jan 02 15:15:48 <rlopin> @zsoc -- I thought that was your port as well. Saw the demo this morning
Jan 02 15:16:11 <zsoc> rlopin: no no, I just get other people excited so they can do all the real work
Jan 02 15:16:51 <rlopin> lol -- sounds like some great software project managers I know
Jan 02 15:19:54 <rlopin> Quake app in Preware lists 'maintainers' as Rod Whitby and dtWill. Assuming dtWill is the developer and Whitby the package release manager.
Jan 02 15:21:09 <zsoc> dtzWill: hey you
Jan 02 15:21:58 <zsoc> this is becoming a regular thing for rod. repackaging stuff that people in the states do at 4am lol
Jan 02 15:22:26 <rlopin> lol -- what time is it in Australia for him?
Jan 02 15:25:43 <rlopin> Just googled it - didn't realize Australia had 5 different time zones depending on which territory you are in. Chalk it up to my dumb American geography education. :-P
Jan 02 15:25:45 <zsoc> right now? 230am?
Jan 02 15:26:05 <zsoc> rlopin: lol yes. at 4am est it's 10pm where he is
Jan 02 15:26:12 <zsoc> er, no. 8pm
Jan 02 15:26:14 <zsoc> sorry
Jan 02 15:26:25 <zsoc> 14 hrs differencei believe
Jan 02 15:26:39 <zsoc> or 16
Jan 02 15:26:48 <zsoc> I'm going to stop trying to count now.
Jan 02 15:27:26 <rlopin> http://www.worldtimezone.com/time-australia24.php
Jan 02 15:28:07 <rlopin> what's the issue with keybinding you referred to a couple of posts back?
Jan 02 15:30:41 <zsoc> rlopin: there's some sort of.. scanning.. that palm hacked together. I can bind _most_ keys but some will just always do something else
Jan 02 15:30:51 <zsoc> dunno, wahots seemed to know why
Jan 02 15:31:34 <FreeTim> I'd like to play with that... especially want step-right and step-left to work... where is the rc file on the Pre?
Jan 02 15:31:57 <FreeTim> I forget where all the DOOM secrets are on these maps... it's been years, I only remembered one so far :)
Jan 02 15:32:26 <FreeTim> which is after the zig-zag area, on the wall to the right  (before the door)
Jan 02 15:35:12 * Lumiere doesn't see quake in preware...
Jan 02 15:39:03 <zsoc> Lumiere: it's _not_ in the testing feeds, so if you have them enabled you have to go back into regular
Jan 02 15:39:12 <Lumiere> i don't
Jan 02 15:39:21 <zsoc> FreeTim: .doomrc is in org.webosinternals.sdldoom/bin
Jan 02 15:39:53 <zsoc> FreeTim: left strafe always goes turboright strafe and back always goes turbo forwards
Jan 02 15:40:02 <zsoc> Lumiere: update your feeds?
Jan 02 15:40:04 <FreeTim> thanks. Didn't the new 1.3.5 move apps to a new location?  -oh never mind I can wiki that  :)
Jan 02 15:40:09 <Lumiere> did
Jan 02 15:40:19 <zsoc> FreeTim: /media/cryptofs/apps
Jan 02 15:40:30 <FreeTim> zsoc:  RocKin'  - thanks!
Jan 02 15:40:40 <zsoc> FreeTim: and then the regular path (/usr/palm/applications)
Jan 02 15:40:51 <FreeTim> I cannot WAIT until Monday so I can show this 3D game aaround at work LOL
Jan 02 15:41:05 <zsoc> Lumiere: list of everything, search quake?
Jan 02 15:41:23 <Lumiere> all I see is the Earthquake (shake api)
Jan 02 15:41:46 <zsoc> Lumiere: odd. double check 'manage feeds', make sure webos-internals is on?
Jan 02 15:41:57 <zsoc> Lumiere: oh, and that it's 1.3.5
Jan 02 15:42:13 <zsoc> FreeTim: technically still no opengl yet
Jan 02 15:42:31 <FreeTim> technically :)
Jan 02 15:42:47 <Lumiere> yes, yes
Jan 02 15:43:17 <zsoc> I mean opengl is there. just no demo using it yet. destinal should be the closest in that department
Jan 02 15:43:54 <Lumiere> 0.9.5 is the latest preware public version (it isn't showing updates)
Jan 02 15:45:16 <zsoc> Lumiere: 0.9.5 of preware? nope
Jan 02 15:45:24 <zsoc> you need at least 0.9.12
Jan 02 15:46:13 <Lumiere> it isn't showing an update... so I just need to download it and use quickinstall?
Jan 02 15:46:44 <zsoc> which means you probably have <0.9.27 of ipkgservice, which means your stuff didn't migrate properly for 135
Jan 02 15:46:50 <zsoc> Lumiere: do you have terminal?
Jan 02 15:47:06 <Lumiere> yea
Jan 02 15:47:12 <Lumiere> (or I did)
Jan 02 15:47:33 <zsoc> Lumiere: see if it opens.
Jan 02 15:48:08 <Lumiere> it doesn't show up... so yea it didn't migrate properly
Jan 02 15:48:14 <Lumiere> (yay... <_<)
Jan 02 15:48:29 <zsoc> Lumiere: no I mean do you still have terminal app in your launcher
Jan 02 15:48:33 <Lumiere> I do not
Jan 02 15:48:41 <Lumiere> I did before the upgrade
Jan 02 15:49:12 <zsoc> Lumiere: ok, you need wosqi then. just uninstall/reinstall package mgr service, then open preware and run the migration helper
Jan 02 15:49:18 <zsoc> that should take care of it
Jan 02 15:54:16 <Lumiere> I don't see migration helper
Jan 02 15:56:21 <zsoc> Lumiere: list of everything 'emer'
Jan 02 15:57:02 <Lumiere> limited emergency button
Jan 02 15:57:06 <Lumiere> is all I see
Jan 02 15:59:24 <Gav_Oracle> hi, was wondering if anyone could help me to delete a folder from my Pre?
Jan 02 16:00:51 <Gav_Oracle> i'm trying to follow the instructions at the bottom of this post:
Jan 02 16:00:53 <Gav_Oracle> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/218671-package-manager-service.html#post2123197
Jan 02 16:01:23 <Gav_Oracle> but don't want to have to install novaterm if I don't have to
Jan 02 16:03:31 <en0x> is jstop borked?
Jan 02 16:03:37 <en0x> it doesnt show how much memory is used
Jan 02 16:04:10 <zsoc> Lumiere: this is perplexing. I suppose the best option here is to upgrade to both the newest version of package mgr service and preware.
Jan 02 16:05:40 <Lumiere> zsoc: k
Jan 02 16:06:11 <Lumiere> zsoc: I did a fresh reset, upgraded to 1.3.5
Jan 02 16:06:47 <Lumiere> then went to install preware and it failed, so I used wosqi and installed them
Jan 02 16:06:53 <Lumiere> but it is still odd
Jan 02 16:06:57 <zsoc> Lumiere: it's a little odd. I'm just not familiar enough with the issue you're running into. and this isn't the best time of day to find preware devs around
Jan 02 16:07:10 <zsoc> Lumiere: ah wait, what version of wosqi?
Jan 02 16:07:21 <Lumiere> 2.96
Jan 02 16:07:53 <Gav_Oracle> is it possible to remove the /media/cryptofs folder using the linux commandline option in quick install?
Jan 02 16:07:53 <zsoc> hmph
Jan 02 16:08:14 <zsoc> Gav_Oracle: yes, but if you have 135 you probably don't want to
Jan 02 16:08:19 <en0x> Gav_Oracle, why u want to do that?
Jan 02 16:08:30 <Gav_Oracle> i don't have 1.3.5, i have a gsm 1.3.1
Jan 02 16:08:31 <zsoc> Lumiere: try the preware bootstrap?
Jan 02 16:09:02 <Gav_Oracle> i'm trying to fix the ipkg manager following the instructions here: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/218671-package-manager-service.html#post2123197
Jan 02 16:09:30 <Lumiere> I installed 0.9.12 and uninstalled .9.5
Jan 02 16:09:31 <zsoc> Gav_Oracle: mount -o remount,rw /; rm -r /media/cryptofs; mount -o remount,ro /
Jan 02 16:09:33 <cryptk> en0x, it seems that JStop is a little borked... not showing mem usage on my pre either
Jan 02 16:10:33 <zsoc> Lumiere: what version of ipkgservice?
Jan 02 16:10:53 <Lumiere> 9.27
Jan 02 16:10:56 <Gav_Oracle> zsoc: thanks trying now
Jan 02 16:11:13 <bpadalino> neat, quake got compiled and whatnot ?
Jan 02 16:11:20 <cryptk> just noticed something... I checked out the new quake this morning... when I just now started JSTop sdlquake was still listed in there as running...
Jan 02 16:11:50 <cryptk> looks like sdldoom does the same...
Jan 02 16:11:58 <cryptk> are they not closing properly/completely?
Jan 02 16:12:52 <Gav_Oracle> zsoc: right think thats removed it ok. now i'll just re-add the service, restart and pray
Jan 02 16:13:02 <en0x> i;m giving up with all the doom quake stuff
Jan 02 16:13:03 <en0x> :p
Jan 02 16:13:12 <en0x> when we get some decent games let me know
Jan 02 16:13:12 <en0x> :P
Jan 02 16:13:48 <en0x> tux racer would be fun ;)
Jan 02 16:13:50 <cryptk> I am hoping for Quake III
Jan 02 16:13:53 <cryptk> I loved that game
Jan 02 16:14:05 <bpadalino> did they release that open source ?
Jan 02 16:14:20 <Lumiere> there is an open source version
Jan 02 16:14:33 <Lumiere> for tuxracer
Jan 02 16:14:48 <cryptk> what is keeping there from being a service that we can use to run normal linux apps in a card?
Jan 02 16:14:55 <cryptk> assuming of course they were compiled correctly
Jan 02 16:14:57 <Lumiere> no x?
Jan 02 16:15:18 <cryptk> that would be one...
Jan 02 16:15:29 <Gav_Oracle> zsoc: if this works fine for me do you have any objections to me adding the command you gave me to the forum thread?
Jan 02 16:15:31 <zsoc> cryptk: no, they are closing, that's just how nappmgr handles/names the card
Jan 02 16:15:31 <bpadalino> they need to use SDL .. GTK is not currently an option
Jan 02 16:15:50 <cryptk> ahh
Jan 02 16:16:07 <cryptk> so pretty much as long as a linux app runs with sdl we can port it over fairly easily..
Jan 02 16:16:31 <Lumiere> zsoc: manually updated to .9.12 for preware .9.27 ipkgservice
Jan 02 16:16:33 <zsoc> Gav_Oracle: err.. only if there was a GIANT warning that says DO NOT DO THIS ON 1.3.5
Jan 02 16:16:54 <Lumiere> still nothing on emer
Jan 02 16:17:24 <zsoc> Lumiere: try manually updating feeds? ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps update
Jan 02 16:17:37 <rlopin> @Gav_Oracle  Jstop got borked for me too after 1.3.5. Although you can still perform a garbage collection.
Jan 02 16:18:02 <Gav_Oracle> zsoc: ok, i'll add the giant warning :) btw preware now loads perfectly.THANK YOU
Jan 02 16:18:21 <zsoc> Lumiere: wait, what do you mean 'manually updated'? wosqi right? becase the postinst needs to run for the service or it won't fix anything
Jan 02 16:18:27 <zsoc> Gav_Oracle: np
Jan 02 16:18:32 <bpadalino> oh, there is a quake3 sdl port at ioquake3.org
Jan 02 16:18:34 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 02 16:18:37 <Lumiere> I said yes to the postinst
Jan 02 16:18:46 <Lumiere> on wosqi
Jan 02 16:19:08 <Lumiere> got it
Jan 02 16:19:13 <Lumiere> the manual feed update helped
Jan 02 16:19:40 <zsoc> bpadalino: yeah, that's where the current working demo came from I'm sure
Jan 02 16:20:00 <bpadalino> zsoc, no demo of quake3 i saw for the pre yet .. just quake ..
Jan 02 16:20:03 <zsoc> Lumiere: emerg migration helper, restart luna, webos should do the rest
Jan 02 16:20:09 <Lumiere> doing it now
Jan 02 16:20:21 <zsoc> bpadalino: OH we need to get opengl working first I'm sure
Jan 02 16:20:24 <Lumiere> thank god for linux :)
Jan 02 16:20:36 <rlopin> Would be great if we could get a C-64 emulator. Apple rejected the initial one submitted to their app store and I believe only accepted it once there was a way for them to make money off the C-64 software.
Jan 02 16:20:39 <bpadalino> zsoc, you should try to compile a simple SDL openGL program then
Jan 02 16:20:50 <bpadalino> that we know the libraries have functions for
Jan 02 16:20:58 <zsoc> bpadalino: weren't you here yesterday ? :p
Jan 02 16:21:10 <bpadalino> i missed what the errors were
Jan 02 16:21:13 <zsoc> bpadalino: testgl and sdlgears both fail. I know the problen
Jan 02 16:21:20 <bpadalino> please, share :)
Jan 02 16:21:34 <rlopin> They made the emulator porter disable BASIC.
Jan 02 16:21:51 <zsoc> bpadalino: my userland compile seems to be incorrect. by standard opengl libs are kept in /usr/lib/opengl.so.1
Jan 02 16:22:00 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 16:22:10 <bpadalino> yeah that would be bad
Jan 02 16:22:27 <zsoc> bpadalino: but on webos they are in 2 places. libGLESv2 and another one
Jan 02 16:22:37 <bpadalino> libGLES_CM
Jan 02 16:22:42 <bpadalino> CMS ?
Jan 02 16:22:50 <bpadalino> libGLES_CM
Jan 02 16:22:55 <zsoc> bpadalino: right. so I an symlink either to libgl.so.1 but not both
Jan 02 16:23:13 <cryptk> ok, all of this talk is way over my head << not a coder
Jan 02 16:23:17 <cryptk> but I just want to say thanks
Jan 02 16:23:18 <bpadalino> hrmm ..
Jan 02 16:23:18 <zsoc> thereis probably a 'proper' library compilation environment process that fixes that
Jan 02 16:23:31 <cryptk> all these new game possibilities are awesome
Jan 02 16:23:33 <zsoc> bpadalino: which is why I think destinal is the closest
Jan 02 16:23:40 <cryptk> and you guys are awesome for making it happen
Jan 02 16:24:01 <zsoc> cryptk: we are clearly webos hackers extraordinaire
Jan 02 16:24:07 <lt83850> lol
Jan 02 16:24:18 <cryptk> zsoc: indeed you are
Jan 02 16:24:47 <cryptk> now if you can figure out a way to increase the frame rate a bit on quake and make it playable...
Jan 02 16:25:33 <zsoc> cryptk: opengl :) we need to figure out the lib issue first
Jan 02 16:25:47 <zsoc> the apis are there, _almost_ fully opengl es compatible
Jan 02 16:26:06 <cryptk> ahh, so in other words, you are working on it but with no real gauge of how close you are... but eventually it will just click and work...
Jan 02 16:27:10 <bpadalino> zsoc, you can't just include those .so files in your gcc line? gcc -o testgl testgl.c /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so /usr/lib/libGLES_CM.so .. does that work ?
Jan 02 16:27:16 <zsoc> cryptk: I'm not close. but many others are. it _should_ be a simple enough fix
Jan 02 16:27:34 <zsoc> bpadalino: for some reason that doesn't work. I don't remember why
Jan 02 16:28:50 <bpadalino> hrm ..
Jan 02 16:31:44 <bpadalino> so we have 2 libs we need to treat as one for linking and that is our current barrier ?
Jan 02 16:33:06 <frozenbinary> hey guys
Jan 02 16:33:27 <frozenbinary> sooo my phone is stuck in passthrough mode, i did ##usbpass# and its asking for an auth code
Jan 02 16:33:32 <rlopin> Googled around syntax for gcc'ing testgl.c. Found a comment mentioning that 'at the top of testgl.c, there is a #ifdef HAVE_OPENGL statement. Before that, #define HAVE_OPENGL and recompile.'  Not sure if that helps at all.
Jan 02 16:33:36 <frozenbinary> i tried my SPC but it wasnt it
Jan 02 16:34:34 <frozenbinary> anyone home ?
Jan 02 16:36:15 <FreeTim> yep, but don't know the answer :)
Jan 02 16:36:24 <frozenbinary> haha
Jan 02 16:36:28 <bpadalino> maybe we need to change how testgl works and is more a testgles instead ..
Jan 02 16:36:51 <frozenbinary> i tried the standard ones,  000000 , my SPC/MSL , last digits of phone #
Jan 02 16:37:13 <zsoc> rlopin: yea it's compiled fine. that's not the issue.
Jan 02 16:37:14 <frozenbinary> is there any way to install a terminal APP through filecoaster ?
Jan 02 16:37:25 <zsoc> it's a complicated userland issue that's over my head
Jan 02 16:37:52 <zsoc> frozenbinary: filecoaster is for breaking things
Jan 02 16:38:10 <bpadalino> zsoc, but you're a webos hacker elite!! you can do it
Jan 02 16:38:14 <frozenbinary> well thats the only homebrew solution i have on my phone
Jan 02 16:38:40 <frozenbinary> any other way to get to a terminal on the pre while i am stuck in usb passthrough ?
Jan 02 16:38:58 <frozenbinary> all i need to do is send MPT x
Jan 02 16:39:04 <bpadalino> frozenbinary: you can't just back your way out of it ?
Jan 02 16:39:27 <frozenbinary> bpadalino: back out ? what do you mean
Jan 02 16:39:27 <rlopin> frozenbinary:  I switched over from FileCoaster to Preware a while ago and haven't looked back since. Preware is so much better from a UI,Functional and Speed perspective.
Jan 02 16:39:46 <frozenbinary> okay thats what i aimed to do this morning, but found out i was stuck in passthrough
Jan 02 16:39:47 <bpadalino> you're in some screen that wants a password ?
Jan 02 16:39:48 <frozenbinary> since my upgrade
Jan 02 16:39:50 <frozenbinary> yeah
Jan 02 16:40:05 <frozenbinary> dial ##usbpass# and it shows an authorization prompt
Jan 02 16:40:05 <bpadalino> and you want to get out of it ?
Jan 02 16:41:33 <frozenbinary> well, i can get out of it, but then i am still stuck in usbpassthrough mode
Jan 02 16:41:50 <frozenbinary> which is for editing memory and whatnot
Jan 02 16:42:31 <frozenbinary> here is a pic of it
Jan 02 16:42:32 <frozenbinary> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2793/4224511692_4e1b51d516.jpg
Jan 02 16:42:49 <frozenbinary> unless i can get a terminal program on my phone, or figure out that password, im stuck haha
Jan 02 16:43:19 <en0x> call palm
Jan 02 16:43:20 <en0x> ;]
Jan 02 16:44:10 <rlopin> http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/221208-palm-pre-stuck-diag-mode.html
Jan 02 16:45:25 <frozenbinary> is the MSL the same as the SPC ?
Jan 02 16:45:38 <en0x> no
Jan 02 16:45:49 <frozenbinary> lol
Jan 02 16:45:58 <frozenbinary> well, i am off to do some searching
Jan 02 16:46:24 <frozenbinary> atleast in passthrough i can use QXDM to search the memory
Jan 02 16:47:42 <bpadalino> it looks like logctld has a validate method ..
Jan 02 16:47:46 <bpadalino> which takes in the code and your SN
Jan 02 16:48:31 <bpadalino> change app/controllers/usbpassthrough-assistant.js for the usbpassthrough app .. line 262 has the onSuccess ..
Jan 02 16:48:35 <rlopin> Would Palm tech support not give out the SPC if you call them? What's to lose by tryinh?
Jan 02 16:48:37 <bpadalino> make the onFailure look like the onSuccess
Jan 02 16:49:11 <frozenbinary> i have the SPC code
Jan 02 16:49:15 <Guinness`> I was just reading through the problems folks have had since updating to 1.3.5 and came accross a lot of discussion about the "My Flashlight" app.  I have had this running for several versions with no problems, but the talk about a serious security hole in an early version really concerns me... so I used Preware & WOSQI to search for the service--with no luck.  All I could find was the app itself, which I selected for uninst
Jan 02 16:49:22 <Guinness`> (sorry for the flood there)
Jan 02 16:49:39 <frozenbinary> i thought hte SPC and MSL were the same
Jan 02 16:49:56 <Guinness`> can anyone help me find the service on my Pre?
Jan 02 16:50:14 <frozenbinary> the service ?
Jan 02 16:50:28 <Guinness`> yeah, it requires a service and an app
Jan 02 16:52:34 <steveapos> Guiness: were the security concerns with the old service or the new one pregame wrote for 1.3.5?
Jan 02 16:52:47 <Guinness`> old
Jan 02 16:53:02 <steveapos> ah gotcha
Jan 02 16:53:18 <Guinness`> http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/211641-missing-flashlight-app-service-2.html#post2054402
Jan 02 16:53:50 <rlopin> http://www.howardforums.com/archive/topic/1571-1.html   speaks about SPC vs MSL codes
Jan 02 16:54:23 <Guinness`> com.pregame.prelease.ipk is the service, but I can't even find the one running on my Pre, so can't check the version or remove it
Jan 02 16:55:27 <steveapos> doesn't show the service in your preware?
Jan 02 16:55:32 <Guinness`> no
Jan 02 16:56:35 <Guinness`> and I deleted the app that showed in Preware & WOSQI, so that no longer shows either... but the app is still there and it still works
Jan 02 16:57:18 <rlopin> I installed the myFlashLight app last night for the first time via Preware. Is that version safe to use? (it installed LED Manager Service)
Jan 02 16:57:31 <steveapos> hmm let me go get to a comp I'm on my phone atm sounds like you're going to have to delete it manually.
Jan 02 16:57:32 <Guinness`> yes
Jan 02 16:57:57 <steveapos> do you have terminal access guinness?
Jan 02 16:58:25 <Guinness`> yeah
Jan 02 16:59:05 <Guinness`> and I'm poking around with Internalz atm, but I think I need to reinstall that after updating to 1.3.5...  the "info" function doesn't work
Jan 02 16:59:08 <steveapos> kk gimme a sec to get to my computer I'll help you look because I think the old service is prob still on my phone too
Jan 02 16:59:17 <Guinness`> cool, thanks
Jan 02 17:07:52 <grundprinzip> Hi, I've got a question: Anybody knows if it is possible to perform a service request on a private service? (e.g. com.palm.audio)
Jan 02 17:08:15 <JayCanuck> any pixi users here?
Jan 02 17:08:29 <destinal-sleep> zsoc bpadalino: so, does autobuild work on this new quake?
Jan 02 17:08:42 <grundprinzip> when I execute luna-send palm://com.palm.audio/system/getVolume '{}'
Jan 02 17:08:43 <grundprinzip> it works
Jan 02 17:08:44 <bpadalino> *shrug* i have no idea about anything :(
Jan 02 17:08:54 <destinal-sleep> bpadalino: just wondering if you guys read back through yet to see if they got that far
Jan 02 17:08:56 <zsoc> destinal-sleep: ask the guu who did it
Jan 02 17:08:58 <grundprinzip> but not with the public bus
Jan 02 17:09:04 <grundprinzip> luna-send -P palm://com.palm.audio/system/getVolume '{}'
Jan 02 17:09:09 <bpadalino> destinal: i saw that it got compiled ..
Jan 02 17:09:12 <bpadalino> and linked
Jan 02 17:09:14 <bpadalino> but nothing else
Jan 02 17:09:51 <JayCanuck> grundprinzip it'll work if your app's id starts with com.palm though an app with that namespace won't be submittable to the app  catalog
Jan 02 17:10:00 <bpadalino> i'd be curious about getting the gl stuff tested and working .. and how to go through that process as well
Jan 02 17:10:26 <bpadalino> i think rwhitby did setup something to autobuild .. egaudet found some other configure options to disable other stuff
Jan 02 17:10:48 <grundprinzip> JayCanuck thx, any other chance to modify the message using some hidden parameters in PalmServiceBridge?
Jan 02 17:11:05 <JayCanuck> not as far as i knoew
Jan 02 17:11:30 <JayCanuck> any Palm Pixi users in here?
Jan 02 17:11:34 <bpadalino> so i was thinking about nappmgr this morning ..
Jan 02 17:11:34 <grundprinzip> is the check for com.palm hardcoded? Can you point me to a location in a jar/so file?
Jan 02 17:11:59 <bpadalino> and i got to thinking that might be a good sign that palm is going to come out with a cross compilation kit for developers ..
Jan 02 17:12:04 <bpadalino> which makes our lives so much easier
Jan 02 17:12:23 <bpadalino> maybe jacques had the same idea
Jan 02 17:12:32 <destinal> bpadalino: sure, the only question is how long until it's public
Jan 02 17:12:36 <bpadalino> true
Jan 02 17:12:44 <bpadalino> so you currently have a chroot you compile on ..
Jan 02 17:13:06 <bpadalino> do you copy the libs over to link against them ?
Jan 02 17:13:07 <destinal> bpadalino: yup.  I need to learn more about how optware does things so I can make and share cross compiling things
Jan 02 17:13:27 <destinal> bpadalino: yes, copied over from webos
Jan 02 17:13:41 <destinal> bpadalino: I haven't actually gotten anything to run yet though, I think I was missing some libs
Jan 02 17:13:58 <zsoc> destinal: did you compile sdl test folder?
Jan 02 17:14:26 <destinal> zsoc: I was too ambitious, tried compiling and linking against palm's version
Jan 02 17:14:38 <destinal> zsoc: and somewhere I ended up in .so dependency hell
Jan 02 17:14:38 <zsoc> so did i
Jan 02 17:14:53 <zsoc> hm
Jan 02 17:15:01 <zsoc> which binaries?
Jan 02 17:15:03 <destinal> zsoc: did you copy all kinds of webos libs into your chroot?
Jan 02 17:15:15 <zsoc> destinal: sure, all of them
Jan 02 17:15:22 <destinal> ah, that's my problem then I suppose
Jan 02 17:15:25 <destinal> I tried to copy specific onesd
Jan 02 17:15:30 <destinal> and obviously missed something
Jan 02 17:15:40 <zsoc> destinal: errr. well I also didn't compile all of sdl
Jan 02 17:15:48 <destinal> I just wanted to build test libs
Jan 02 17:15:56 <zsoc> destinal: I don't think we can. I only compiled the test libs
Jan 02 17:16:02 <destinal> err test bins
Jan 02 17:16:19 <destinal> zsoc: well, we're missing headers piranha and others to build the whole thing
Jan 02 17:16:36 <zsoc> destinal: eveythin works but testgl because of a lib issue. I was hoping your full build would fix that
Jan 02 17:17:14 <zsoc> destinal: our gl es support is in libGLES_CM and libGLESv2, but we need both and I can only symlink 1 to libgl.so.1
Jan 02 17:17:27 <zsoc> I think it's an easy problem but I don't know the answer
Jan 02 17:18:25 <destinal> zsoc: err?
Jan 02 17:19:16 <zsoc> destinal: there's another answer. we can cross compile mesa3d and use it's libGL
Jan 02 17:19:31 <destinal> I don't see how building against a custom build is any different than building against palm's
Jan 02 17:19:39 <destinal> they should create the same libraries
Jan 02 17:19:59 <destinal> I think running the ./configure in test lib dir may be an important thing though
Jan 02 17:20:11 <destinal> did you do that/
Jan 02 17:20:13 <destinal> ?
Jan 02 17:21:30 <zsoc> destinal: yes you have to run configure
Jan 02 17:21:36 <zsoc> and/or add -DPALM
Jan 02 17:21:47 <zsoc> non gl test bins work fine
Jan 02 17:22:10 <zsoc> so the issue is getting gl stuff to build against/use GL ES instead of standard gl
Jan 02 17:22:23 <zsoc> there are lotsof docs online about that for other platforms
Jan 02 17:22:29 <bpadalino> i've yet to see the error pasted somewhere so i could read what's wrong :(
Jan 02 17:23:10 <zsoc> bpadalino: nothing 'goes wrong' per se. the error is 'cant find function so and so' and whatever 'so and so' is depends on which lib you link, it's missing apis from the other one
Jan 02 17:23:50 <bpadalino> but you should be able to pass -L into gcc and let it find them ..
Jan 02 17:24:00 <bpadalino> though, some functions are NOT defined by either of those libs ..
Jan 02 17:24:09 <bpadalino> so we'd need to modify testgl to be more of a testgles
Jan 02 17:24:28 <zsoc> I found a patch to build mesa3d for arm
Jan 02 17:25:15 <zsoc> bpadalino: so you're saying I should compile the individual test bin source, with all normal arguments, plus -L and the relative location of each of those libs?
Jan 02 17:25:51 <zsoc> -L /path/lib1 /path/lib2?
Jan 02 17:25:57 <bpadalino> yeah, just try gcc -o testgl testgl.c -L/usr/lib and see what happens
Jan 02 17:26:50 <zsoc> 1 sec
Jan 02 17:27:23 <destinal> zsoc: there's one ES lib that isn't in /usr/lib btw
Jan 02 17:27:36 <bpadalino> hrm .. which lib is that ?
Jan 02 17:27:53 <zsoc> destinal: please tell
Jan 02 17:28:03 <Lumiere> I wonder if there is any nintendo ds code
Jan 02 17:28:06 <Lumiere> for opengl
Jan 02 17:28:15 <Lumiere> (arm based as well)
Jan 02 17:28:21 <bpadalino>  /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so  - that one ?
Jan 02 17:28:27 <Lumiere> might help with some of it
Jan 02 17:29:04 <destinal> bpadalino: yeah, that one
Jan 02 17:29:10 <destinal> not sure what EGL is
Jan 02 17:29:19 <bpadalino> 000005a0 T eglSubDrvBufferConfig
Jan 02 17:29:26 <bpadalino> that appears to be the only real thing defined in there
Jan 02 17:30:43 <zsoc> destinal: that's just the layer for the driver. egl stuff. hardware
Jan 02 17:31:29 <zsoc> crap what am I doing again?
Jan 02 17:31:36 <zsoc> -L/usr/lib?
Jan 02 17:32:52 <zsoc> the sdl stuff I need is in /usr/include
Jan 02 17:32:53 <dirs> i've seem that someone made a doom version using a api for internal hardware access
Jan 02 17:33:02 <bpadalino> -I/usr/include ..
Jan 02 17:33:06 <dirs> is there some docs about it?
Jan 02 17:33:31 <UZHans> I donated directly to deep Thought Software to get the full version of RemoteWin, now the app catalog is telling me that there is an update, however when I try to download it it tells me that there was a problem downloading the app, should I be able to download the update even though I didn't purchase the app through the catalog?
Jan 02 17:34:21 <UZHans> Also, is there user access to the app catalog error log?
Jan 02 17:34:53 <zsoc> bpadalino: it's missing sdl.h, which is silly because it's in /usr/include
Jan 02 17:34:55 <destinal> UZHans: if you didn't originally buy it on catalog, the catalog won't update you, IIRC
Jan 02 17:35:01 <Abyssul> UZHans: Contact the developer
Jan 02 17:35:02 <bpadalino> weird
Jan 02 17:35:06 <zsoc> bpadalino: I think the makefile does deeper thins.
Jan 02 17:35:16 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 02 17:35:31 <UZHans> thank you
Jan 02 17:36:24 <dirs> sorry but ireally
Jan 02 17:37:12 <dirs> ops.. i really want to know if there is a way to run java code
Jan 02 17:37:23 <dirs> so if someone knows about doom and quake
Jan 02 17:37:24 <zsoc> bpadalino: OH I need to use sdl-config
Jan 02 17:37:45 <zsoc> dirs: java what? we run java services all the time
Jan 02 17:37:46 <destinal> dirs: you can (and always have) run java code with no GUI at this point
Jan 02 17:37:56 <dirs> zsoc: ohh
Jan 02 17:39:01 <destinal> there's no display support in the current java runtime at this point -- it would be tricky to add, we'd need to build graphics libraries against SDL
Jan 02 17:39:16 <destinal> s/graphics/the java graphics/
Jan 02 17:39:16 <infobot> destinal meant: there's no display support in the current java runtime at this point -- it would be tricky to add, we'd need to build the java graphics libraries against SDL
Jan 02 17:39:23 <zsoc> bpadalino: -I/usr/include/SDL -L/usr/lib
Jan 02 17:39:36 <bpadalino> how does that work out ?
Jan 02 17:40:05 <dirs> i want to run a library like a webservice inside mobile and use javascript to use it
Jan 02 17:40:36 <dirs> but i didn't see how can I run java code
Jan 02 17:40:43 <dirs> i'm looking in the docs
Jan 02 17:40:54 <dirs> but didn't found :(
Jan 02 17:41:28 <zsoc> bpadalino: bah I forgot to compile with opengl support lol, 1 sec
Jan 02 17:41:34 <bpadalino> opengles
Jan 02 17:41:55 <gfxcomplex> Hello
Jan 02 17:42:00 <gfxcomplex> any one home?
Jan 02 17:42:12 <gfxcomplex> I have an palm-install problem
Jan 02 17:42:17 <destinal> dirs: a java program that implements a web server and your service functionality?
Jan 02 17:42:31 <destinal> dirs: I recommend making a standard webos service instead
Jan 02 17:42:51 <destinal> they can be accessed in mojo apps
Jan 02 17:42:52 <dirs> destinal: hmm how can i make that?
Jan 02 17:43:04 <gfxcomplex> I get "FAILDED_IPKG_INSTALL" after palm-install --install ".ipk"
Jan 02 17:43:32 <gfxcomplex> I replaced ".ipk" with my package
Jan 02 17:43:48 <gfxcomplex> I have novacom running
Jan 02 17:44:03 <gfxcomplex> I can get a list from install
Jan 02 17:44:08 <gfxcomplex> via -l
Jan 02 17:45:04 <real-steveapos> anyone having trouble launching the quake demo?
Jan 02 17:45:18 <destinal> dirs: I'm surprised to find this but apparently this isn't well documented in the wiki
Jan 02 17:45:31 <destinal> dirs: there's this, http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Java_Services
Jan 02 17:45:42 <dirs> ahh thanks!
Jan 02 17:45:44 <gfxcomplex> How can I get a log for errors on installs
Jan 02 17:46:00 <gfxcomplex> I need more info then FAILED_IPKG_INSTALL
Jan 02 17:46:18 <gfxcomplex> I have searched the forums for that error and found nothing
Jan 02 17:46:30 <gfxcomplex> I can install via -b usb
Jan 02 17:46:34 <destinal> dirs: also check git http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/  for examples
Jan 02 17:46:35 <gfxcomplex> but not the emu
Jan 02 17:47:26 <destinal> dirs: for instance preware is based on our own java service, ipkgservice, http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/ipkgservice.git
Jan 02 17:47:33 <dirs> destinal: interesting helped me a lot thanks
Jan 02 17:47:45 <gfxcomplex> I do see that the ports are diffrent for the usb and the tcp
Jan 02 17:47:53 <gfxcomplex> should that be the case?
Jan 02 17:48:02 <dirs> destinal: i know if there are limitations about libraries?
Jan 02 17:48:36 <destinal> dirs: here's info from palm on USING system services,  http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1538
Jan 02 17:48:58 <destinal> dirs: they don't tell you how to make them since that's unsupported my the mojo SDK (but of course we still do it) :)
Jan 02 17:49:00 <zsoc> bpadalino: cannot find -lGL (being the standard gl flag)
Jan 02 17:49:03 <dirs> and, what about aproval process, it will pass? did you know or shot ? :P
Jan 02 17:49:10 <bpadalino> destinal: how did you get around the Piranha/PContext.h ?
Jan 02 17:49:19 <destinal> dirs: you can't get it approved
Jan 02 17:49:26 <destinal> dirs: this is useful for homebrew only at this point
Jan 02 17:49:42 <bpadalino> zsoc, no need for -lGL since you're including those GLES libs?
Jan 02 17:49:44 <dirs> hmm
Jan 02 17:50:00 <destinal> dirs: no java anything can be approved for catalog
Jan 02 17:50:13 <destinal> mojo only
Jan 02 17:50:28 <destinal> dirs: but you can make an app and publish it in preware for free
Jan 02 17:50:31 <zsoc> bpadalino: er, ok hold on. I'm doing this in term app lol
Jan 02 17:50:42 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 02 17:50:53 <bpadalino> no usb cable to run it through novaterm ?
Jan 02 17:51:01 <zsoc> bpadalino: I don't think it works that way. I may have to redefine -lGL for ld
Jan 02 17:51:13 <dirs> destinal yah maybe with admob :P
Jan 02 17:55:35 <zsoc> bpadalino: ok now my compiling environment is set up right, I'm getting compiling errors, 1 for each opengl api :)
Jan 02 17:55:54 <bpadalino> hrmm .. what are the errors ?
Jan 02 17:56:15 <destinal> dirs: yeah, admob is a good idea
Jan 02 17:56:20 <zsoc> bpadalino: undefined reference to 'api'
Jan 02 17:56:25 <zsoc> 1 for each api
Jan 02 17:56:40 <bpadalino> do you have a missing header file ?
Jan 02 17:56:43 <destinal> lets you give something away to users but still make money on it
Jan 02 17:57:13 <bpadalino> some headers here may be helpful: http://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/ ?
Jan 02 17:57:15 <zsoc> bpadalino: well. I have those 2 .so's in.. oh wait. hahaha 1 sec
Jan 02 17:57:21 <bpadalino> ok
Jan 02 17:57:32 <zsoc> I have them in the SDL lib and not usr/lib
Jan 02 17:57:33 <destinal> bpadalino: I didn't get around it
Jan 02 17:57:44 <bpadalino> destinal: just made the ifdef an ifndef ?
Jan 02 17:58:23 <destinal> bpadalino: well the first compile didn't have it properly defined, so it built anyway, when I fixed that it started failing so I moved on to just trying to build the test apps against palm's binary libs and the headers from their package
Jan 02 17:58:34 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 02 17:59:10 <zsoc> bpadalino: same issues when the two gl libs are in /usr/lib
Jan 02 17:59:19 <zsoc> it may just not support gl yet
Jan 02 17:59:58 <bpadalino> nah, i believe it does support it .. mdklein said he had some gl stuff working without the SDL .. so the libs work i think
Jan 02 18:00:23 <zsoc> bpadalino: I would need to see that to believe it
Jan 02 18:00:42 <bpadalino> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL
Jan 02 18:01:54 <zsoc> bpadalino: no. those won't run on a standard webos device
Jan 02 18:02:06 <zsoc> bpadalino: I want it to work with the headers we have now
Jan 02 18:02:45 <bpadalino> specifically going through SDL then
Jan 02 18:02:52 <zsoc> bpadalino: and I'm not compiling against egl libs
Jan 02 18:03:13 <zsoc> bpadalino: we have to for it to work. and sdl libs _have_ a semi-complete opengl es spec
Jan 02 18:07:26 <zsoc> anyone here know anything about ld?
Jan 02 18:07:31 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: ping? :p
Jan 02 18:09:20 <zsoc> bpadalino: how would I specify lib name instead of having ld look for it? lower case or uppercase -l? and can I have multiple files linked?
Jan 02 18:10:18 <bpadalino> yeah you shoud be able to ..
Jan 02 18:10:27 <bpadalino> -L should link those libs directly
Jan 02 18:14:37 <zsoc> bpadalino: ok. I'm asking the guys in #opengl also what standard procedure is in this situation
Jan 02 18:18:26 <zsoc> -L/usr/lib/libGLES_CM is still erroring out
Jan 02 18:22:25 <zsoc> I mean I don't have to build against these libs, but I need to work against them :p
Jan 02 18:23:30 <zsoc> I'm going to try the egl stuff...
Jan 02 18:24:00 <zsoc> OH I SEE NOW
Jan 02 18:24:29 <zsoc> libGLESv2 links against the PVR libs, which makes sense now
Jan 02 18:24:35 <rick_home> afternoon zsoc
Jan 02 18:24:38 <zsoc> bpadalino: so again, you seemed to be right
Jan 02 18:24:43 <zsoc> rick_home: yello joe
Jan 02 18:25:02 <zsoc> rick_home: go make opengl work :p
Jan 02 18:25:10 <bpadalino> whoops
Jan 02 18:25:52 <rick_home> zsoc  in your dreams...
Jan 02 18:26:19 * rick_home is an end-user-app level guy
Jan 02 18:26:32 <rick_home> what you're doing is deep wizardry
Jan 02 18:26:54 <rick_home> So, may I ask what the outcome of last nights session was?
Jan 02 18:27:07 <rick_home> if any?
Jan 02 18:28:52 <zsoc> rick_home: dunno. read the logs. I got nothing done :( got more done this morning on my phone lol
Jan 02 18:28:59 <Templarian> Do we have to download the wad files for quake to work?
Jan 02 18:29:01 <Robi_> poor zsoc ;]
Jan 02 18:29:15 <zsoc> Templarian: it downloads in the postinst
Jan 02 18:29:31 <Templarian> My quake doesn't work. :(
Jan 02 18:29:50 <zsoc> Templarian: it's just a demo video, and it's not mine :)
Jan 02 18:30:36 <Templarian> After selecting new game is it suppose to work or crash?
Jan 02 18:30:52 <zsoc> Templarian: it's supposed to crash
Jan 02 18:31:05 <Templarian> Just making sure, figured it wasn't done.
Jan 02 18:32:33 <rick_home> what sdl apps have gotten compiled and work so far?
Jan 02 18:35:15 <zsoc> rick_home: I've compiled about 30 simple test apps or simple games, and then doom
Jan 02 18:35:21 <zsoc> rick_home: and now tis quake demo
Jan 02 18:35:35 <zsoc> rick_home: nothing gl yet, that's what I'm working on
Jan 02 18:36:05 <rick_home> zsoc -- wondered if anyone had compiled an gameboy or nes emulator,  but I figure the gl stuff is more important.
Jan 02 18:36:19 <rick_home> once you had doom up as a demo you've done your job there.
Jan 02 18:36:55 <zsoc> rick_home: someone is working on gnuboy, and I'm looking into fceux after I can figure out how to compile sane gl apps
Jan 02 18:37:08 <rick_home> k
Jan 02 18:37:11 <rick_home> just wondered.
Jan 02 18:37:31 <zsoc> rick_home: for you rick, any answer you want :)
Jan 02 18:39:05 <zsoc> rick_home: it's also not full opengl es spec right now. I need to go through by elimination and see which apis were left out. I'm willing to bet they are gpu intensive ones.
Jan 02 18:39:19 <zsoc> don't want homebrew melting peoples phones lol
Jan 02 18:42:16 <egaudet> morning
Jan 02 18:44:58 <egaudet> zsoc you got opengles lib?
Jan 02 18:46:45 <cal_> update seems to have broken preware.. just reinstall it?
Jan 02 18:47:04 <egaudet> yea
Jan 02 18:47:11 <egaudet> well reinstall package manager service
Jan 02 18:47:41 <zsoc> egaudet: no, we can't use it
Jan 02 18:48:05 <zsoc> egaudet: well maybe we can. but we don't need it. we have the ti gl libs
Jan 02 18:48:05 <egaudet> why
Jan 02 18:48:51 <egaudet> Palm configures with enable-video-opengles, but we can't unless we have opengles ?
Jan 02 18:53:40 <egaudet> headers
Jan 02 18:53:41 <zsoc> egaudet: ... the apis are in the libGLES_CM and libGLESv2 and they reference libpvr* for the actual functions
Jan 02 18:55:11 <zsoc> egaudet: the advantage is, the references in the sdl libs are the only supported opengl es apis
Jan 02 18:55:26 <zsoc> egaudet: otherwise we are compiling things we can't run
Jan 02 18:59:06 <egaudet> Don't you need a lib to link against that has the gles functions like Gbcon_GLES_MakeCurrent
Jan 02 18:59:48 <egaudet> if someone wanted to build a game that uses these functions
Jan 02 19:00:36 <kmax12> great job on quake quys: http://themxweb.com/2010/01/02/quake-demoed-on-pre/
Jan 02 19:04:27 <destinal> kmax12:  :)
Jan 02 19:06:31 <zsoc> egaudet: probably. but for test apps we don't. no one is yet to run an opengl app on an sdl surface
Jan 02 19:08:31 <zsoc> egaudet: can you explain to me the difference between -l and -L in gcc?
Jan 02 19:08:42 <egaudet> -L is like -I
Jan 02 19:08:48 <egaudet> it tells where to look for a library
Jan 02 19:08:56 <egaudet> -l gives the library name
Jan 02 19:09:25 <zsoc> egaudet: ok, and can I have more than one -L?
Jan 02 19:09:38 <egaudet> yep
Jan 02 19:10:26 <destinal> zsoc: you said you were also able to compile the quake thing today too?
Jan 02 19:10:35 <destinal> zsoc: also as simple as "make" or harder?
Jan 02 19:12:26 <destinal> I confirmed the quake on the build system is a download, not built there
Jan 02 19:12:29 <destinal> like sdldoom
Jan 02 19:13:22 <destinal> zsoc: you said you were also able to compile the quake thing today too?  also as simple as "make" or harder?  ( I confirmed the quake on the build system is a download, not built there, same as with sdldoom)
Jan 02 19:13:26 <zsoc> egaudet: ok sorry. so before my phone crashed what I was saying. it only works if I -L down to a particular file, not just the folder
Jan 02 19:13:33 <zsoc> and I have 6 libs to linl
Jan 02 19:14:01 <egaudet> -L only takes a search dir
Jan 02 19:14:15 <zsoc> destinal: quake wasn't me. but it works on ross compile
Jan 02 19:14:23 <egaudet> if you wanted to use libsdl.so in /opt/lib for instance you would do -L /opt/lib -lsdl
Jan 02 19:14:32 <zsoc> egaudet: odd. why won't it accept my libs then :(
Jan 02 19:14:47 <zsoc> hm oh I see
Jan 02 19:15:01 <destinal> zsoc: iI knew it wasn't your doing originally, I thought you had said you had reproduced it (although that's probably not really important)
Jan 02 19:15:09 <zsoc> so -L/usr/lib/GL -lGL ?
Jan 02 19:15:17 <xcomp> yeah that should do it
Jan 02 19:15:27 <zsoc> ok I try
Jan 02 19:15:38 <zsoc> ld seems to have problems with my GL folder
Jan 02 19:16:13 <xcomp> shouldn't there be a -lGLU in there as well?
Jan 02 19:16:40 <xcomp> and -lGLcore
Jan 02 19:18:42 <destinal> xcomp: depends on whether gl links those or the program binary has to
Jan 02 19:20:30 <xcomp> destinal: he's compiling a binary right? Nothing is going to link itself unless it is added to the compiler flags
Jan 02 19:20:44 <egaudet> zsoc, what's your ld line output
Jan 02 19:20:50 <xcomp> i came in late to the discussion though
Jan 02 19:21:38 <zsoc> egaudet: I honestly don't know what that means. I shouldn't be doing this lol
Jan 02 19:21:39 <destinal> xcomp: .so's can link other .so's
Jan 02 19:22:01 <destinal> xcomp: so if libgl links those others, you don't need to have your program do the same, it can link libgl and libgl can link the others
Jan 02 19:22:02 <egaudet> what error are you getting?
Jan 02 19:22:33 <xcomp> destinal: I see what you're saying. I've never actually seen libGL link the others though
Jan 02 19:23:21 <zsoc> libGLES* link libpvr*, that much I know
Jan 02 19:23:36 <destinal> xcomp: yeah, I think you're right
Jan 02 19:23:44 <egaudet> rwhitby, reminder for lsdiff when you get a chance
Jan 02 19:23:51 <zsoc> egaudet: general undefined api errors. if I use -lGL I get the whole 'ld doesn't know what you're looking for' errors
Jan 02 19:24:05 <egaudet> zsoc, can I get a pastebin of your output?
Jan 02 19:24:25 <destinal> zsoc: you probably need to -lGLU -llGLcore like xcomp mentioned
Jan 02 19:24:51 <zsoc> egaudet: not while I'm on my pre you can't :(
Jan 02 19:25:07 <zsoc> destinal: glu and core aren't necessary for this test app...
Jan 02 19:25:13 <egaudet> oh you are doing all this on pre
Jan 02 19:25:23 <windzilla> hello all, wanted to stop in and thank people for all the great work
Jan 02 19:25:28 <destinal> zsoc: you should just open ssh over EVDO and make a user for egaudet :)
Jan 02 19:25:50 <zsoc> destinal: I has no linux box at work
Jan 02 19:25:54 <windzilla> I also wanted to ask if anyone was looking at porting duke3d? the reason is it has been ported to maemo here http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/duke3d/1.5.8-0maemo5/
Jan 02 19:26:08 <destinal> zsoc: on the pre I mean
Jan 02 19:26:20 <windzilla> and i didn't know if that might make life easier in porting it to webOS
Jan 02 19:26:21 <xcomp> windzilla: don't think duke uses sdl...
Jan 02 19:26:21 <zsoc> egaudet: right now I am. I have a cc env at home tho, same basic issue
Jan 02 19:26:36 <zsoc> destinal: oh lol. no :( my dirty pictures...
Jan 02 19:26:58 <zsoc> windzilla: yes, it does
Jan 02 19:27:09 <zsoc> not that it uses sdl, but maemo stuff can sometimes make things easier
Jan 02 19:27:14 <xcomp> windzilla: actually...it does
Jan 02 19:27:16 <windzilla> xcomp, thanks, it was a question beyond my knowledge, just figured since the controls are all made for touchscreen and keyboard already
Jan 02 19:27:19 <windzilla> oh, ohk
Jan 02 19:27:20 <xcomp> so that would be interesting
Jan 02 19:27:53 <egaudet> zsoc, are you sure your ld command is getting the -L and -l ?
Jan 02 19:28:32 <zsoc> egaudet: huh? you mean gcc?
Jan 02 19:28:34 <rwhitby> mornig
Jan 02 19:28:35 <xcomp> duke3d is open sourced and uses sdl, so it might actually be easier to get to a playable state than quake
Jan 02 19:29:03 <jacques> re rwhitby
Jan 02 19:29:12 <zsoc> xcomp: is it opengl?
Jan 02 19:29:20 <windzilla> yea thats what i was wondering, the files i pointed to should also include controls optimized for touchscreen-based navigation and keyboard
Jan 02 19:30:00 <xcomp> zsoc: still investigating... http://icculus.org/duke3d/
Jan 02 19:30:12 <nfoxTc> wow you guys are having fun with sdl
Jan 02 19:30:13 <egaudet> yea
Jan 02 19:30:15 <windzilla> don't know about open gl but n900 uses the exact same chip as pre
Jan 02 19:31:31 <egaudet> is there any doco on what you did to build doom zsoc?
Jan 02 19:33:03 <zsoc> egaudet: I am the webos hacker extraordinaire
Jan 02 19:33:08 <zsoc> egaudet: I typed 'make'
Jan 02 19:33:18 <youslippin> +1 Duke Nukem.  I've got some old custom maps from back in those days!:)
Jan 02 19:33:30 <nfoxTc> question, how much does doom "push" the pre...any idea how much more we can exspect out of the hardware at this point?
Jan 02 19:34:14 <destinal> nfoxTc: someone reported it started getting slow with 10 doom windows simultaneously
Jan 02 19:34:17 <Leathal> nfoxTc: almost certainly quite a bit more
Jan 02 19:34:21 <zsoc> nfoxTc: I can run doom on a 33mhz processor
Jan 02 19:34:42 <nfoxTc> hmm
Jan 02 19:35:04 <destinal> zsoc: I used to do just that right after the game came out
Jan 02 19:35:12 <xcomp> nfoxTc: doom isn't much more than a proof of concept at this point
Jan 02 19:35:34 <Leathal> that quake port is done in software rendering right?
Jan 02 19:35:42 <Guinness`> Duke4  \m/
Jan 02 19:36:35 <MetaView> Duke3D yeah!
Jan 02 19:36:49 <destinal> Duke Nukem Forever!
Jan 02 19:37:14 <FreeTim2> it's time to Kick ass and chew bubble gum
Jan 02 19:37:30 <MetaView> What are you waiting for?
Jan 02 19:37:30 <destinal> and I'm all out of gum
Jan 02 19:37:32 <nfoxTc> hmmm
Jan 02 19:37:41 <nfoxTc> im excited then
Jan 02 19:37:48 <Jack87-WebIRC> morning all
Jan 02 19:37:49 <nfoxTc> maybe we can get something almost...dreamcast quality?
Jan 02 19:37:54 <nfoxTc> or is that exspecting too much
Jan 02 19:37:56 <destinal> Jack87-WebIRC: mornign
Jan 02 19:38:24 <destinal> nfoxTc: have you seen the need for speed video of it running on the pre?  I think we can do pretty well
Jan 02 19:38:41 <nfoxTc> yeah but I thought it was a fake
Jan 02 19:38:51 <destinal> nfoxTc: not likely
Jan 02 19:38:57 <destinal> nfoxTc: I say real
Jan 02 19:39:52 <destinal> it's just a bit too coincidental that Palm has just given us native app support in 1.3.5 right after that demo comes out suggesting you need a 1.3.(x) version of Nova (webos) to run it
Jan 02 19:40:00 <MetaView> duke will run without problem, just the lack of good game keys
Jan 02 19:40:05 <zsoc> nfoxTc: it's real. look at it.
Jan 02 19:40:45 <nfoxTc> hey zsoc i love the doom port...but why no back button lol
Jan 02 19:41:05 <destinal> nfoxTc: because real space marines never look back
Jan 02 19:41:19 <zsoc> nfoxTc: palm sdl patch key scan mapping bug
Jan 02 19:41:37 <zsoc> wahots is the resident key scanning expert
Jan 02 19:41:41 <destinal> nfoxTc: eyes on the prize, always forward
Jan 02 19:41:49 <nfoxTc> ha
Jan 02 19:43:20 <Jack87-WebIRC> did wahots present you with anything zsoc  about fixing the menu/strafe back
Jan 02 19:43:51 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: he was looking into it. he said a binary patch seems like the only good optiob, which is bad news
Jan 02 19:44:02 <zsoc> so we probably need to patch doom core
Jan 02 19:44:21 <nfoxTc> sounds complicated
Jan 02 19:44:31 <destinal> zsoc: on the other hand that means it'll probably be fixed in a webos update.
Jan 02 19:44:35 <windzilla> I have no programing knowledge outside of statistics (r and stata) so basically, none, but if i can help somewhere i would be happy too, perhaps wiki updates?
Jan 02 19:44:36 <destinal> not that we want to wait
Jan 02 19:44:48 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: what would be benefit of patch vs rewriting it?
Jan 02 19:44:51 <MetaView> I could do the doom-patch
Jan 02 19:45:17 <MetaView> I spend several month with the linuxdoom source some years ago
Jan 02 19:45:57 <JMyaDaGod> Whats up guys Thanks to everyone that worked on the Doom I truly am happy with my PRE
Jan 02 19:46:11 <zsoc> egaudet: -L/usr/lib/GL -lGL gives 'ld: cannot find -lGL'
Jan 02 19:46:33 <xcomp> zsoc: is there a libGL.so in /usr/lib/GL?
Jan 02 19:46:39 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: well. we are hackers extraordinaire
Jan 02 19:46:49 <zsoc> xcomp: there shouldn't have to be
Jan 02 19:46:59 <egaudet> zsoc, yes
Jan 02 19:47:02 <xcomp> zsoc: if you're adding -lGL there has to be
Jan 02 19:47:06 <egaudet> that's what your -L and -l is looking for
Jan 02 19:47:08 <destinal> JMyaDaGod: :)  It's awesome that Palm has added support for native apps and SDL games.  (and that we found it before anything official was said about it)
Jan 02 19:47:22 <xcomp> zsoc: if you say -lGL, you're telling gcc "link libGL.so"
Jan 02 19:47:28 <zsoc> egaudet: well crap. I can't symlink a libGL.so
Jan 02 19:47:35 <egaudet> huh?
Jan 02 19:47:40 <JMyaDaGod> Yes i am so happy with my phone and the whole team that works hard everyday to make it better THANKS
Jan 02 19:47:42 <xcomp> where exactly is libGL.so?
Jan 02 19:47:42 <egaudet> where is libGL.so ?
Jan 02 19:48:01 <nfoxTc> Id love to help you guys one day
Jan 02 19:48:04 <zsoc> egaudet: we don't want libGL, we want libGLES_CM and libGLESv2
Jan 02 19:48:05 <nfoxTc> I really like what your doing
Jan 02 19:48:21 <rwhitby> gah, I borked preware via ledmanager :-(
Jan 02 19:48:24 <xcomp> zsoc: then you should say -lGLES_CM -lGLESv2
Jan 02 19:48:32 <JMyaDaGod> I have a question.... is there like a guide somewhere on the web how to port SDL just so i can read up a little on it??
Jan 02 19:48:35 <zsoc> xcomp: thank you
Jan 02 19:48:35 <destinal> rwhitby: morning!
Jan 02 19:48:50 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: we just started doing this 3 days ago
Jan 02 19:48:51 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: is pulling an all nighter now?
Jan 02 19:49:04 <egaudet> yep, zsoc remember -l<namespec> just says find library named lib<namespec>.so (or just .a if not using shared)
Jan 02 19:49:08 <JMyaDaGod> yea i mean just in general not for pre
Jan 02 19:49:08 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: no he wakes up at 6, like an old guy
Jan 02 19:49:20 <destinal> zsoc: :P
Jan 02 19:49:21 <zsoc> egaudet: thank you. I am a gcc nub
Jan 02 19:49:21 <Jack87-WebIRC> haha that explains it
Jan 02 19:49:23 <rwhitby> egaudet: a warning, so you don't trip over it too - if anyone runs ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/app on a 1.3.1 device, it will *create* that directory and start tripping all the "does /media/cryptofs/apps" exists checks everywhere
Jan 02 19:49:32 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: what more do you need to do with ledmanager?
Jan 02 19:49:42 <destinal> rwhitby: ugh
Jan 02 19:49:48 <egaudet> rwhitby, shouldn't we put a better check then
Jan 02 19:49:52 <egaudet> instead of "does this dir exist"
Jan 02 19:49:56 <zsoc> rwhitby: yeah, we had to help a guy on 131 gsm remove his /media/cryptofs folder earlier
Jan 02 19:50:02 <rwhitby> ledmanager is fixed (removed those calls), but yes we need to fix the checks
Jan 02 19:50:42 <destinal> but how do we improve them?
Jan 02 19:50:52 <JMyaDaGod> you guys need any testers for anything?
Jan 02 19:50:53 <tlp> Doom is surprisingly fun and playable.
Jan 02 19:51:07 <rwhitby> destinal: good question
Jan 02 19:51:14 <JMyaDaGod> My 5 year old son loves doom
Jan 02 19:51:24 <tlp> it has new life on the pre
Jan 02 19:51:32 <tlp> Do any of you guys know if Google intends to release Sky Map for webOS?
Jan 02 19:52:30 <nfoxTc> hey is there anyway someone like me can help you guys?
Jan 02 19:52:36 <rwhitby> destinal: I'd rather not put in things like (version >= 1.3.5) or something
Jan 02 19:52:41 <MetaView> tip. without compass?
Jan 02 19:52:42 <Leathal> tlp: skymap requires an internal compass, so probably not
Jan 02 19:52:46 <egaudet> rwhitby, check for mount?
Jan 02 19:52:55 <rwhitby> egaudet: yeah, that should do it
Jan 02 19:52:55 <tlp> ah, I see. I figured it was all GPS.
Jan 02 19:52:58 <destinal> rwhitby: I think we should check the palm config
Jan 02 19:53:28 <rwhitby> destinal: egaudet has the answer I think, if /media/cryptofs is mounted
Jan 02 19:53:29 <zsoc> he has anyone gotten a phonecall while in landscape? lol
Jan 02 19:53:32 <destinal> grep cryptofs /etc/palm/luna.conf
Jan 02 19:53:36 <tlp> Is the acceleration provided by Palm entirely closed-source?
Jan 02 19:53:37 <rwhitby> that's a good version-independent check
Jan 02 19:53:39 <tlp> i.e. a binary blob?
Jan 02 19:54:30 <destinal> rwhitby: luna.conf I'm telling ya
Jan 02 19:54:32 <dtzWill> hello all, having fun?
Jan 02 19:54:37 <tlp> maybe I'll check the wiki before asking questions.
Jan 02 19:55:05 <JMyaDaGod> zsoc: you mean and the notifaction comes on bottom freaked me out first time i saw it
Jan 02 19:55:10 <rwhitby> morning dtzWill
Jan 02 19:55:14 <dtzWill> morning :)
Jan 02 19:55:15 <destinal> rwhitby: otherwise when I start unmounting cryptofs you'll break me :)
Jan 02 19:55:17 <zsoc> yeah lol
Jan 02 19:55:26 <dtzWill> fwiw the crash on game start is fixed i'll push that when i can
Jan 02 19:55:38 <Leathal> dtzWill: nice work on quake
Jan 02 19:55:45 <dtzWill> Leathal: ty
Jan 02 19:55:46 <rwhitby> destinal: ok, so if /etc/palm/luna.conf contains the string /media/cryptofs/apps
Jan 02 19:55:52 <zsoc> dtzWill: what environment are you compiling on?
Jan 02 19:55:59 <JMyaDaGod> quake up and running?????????
Jan 02 19:56:31 <dtzWill> zsoc: cross-compiling with libs copied off of my pre (using 08q1 code sourcery)
Jan 02 19:56:37 <destinal> rwhitby: yeah, I think that's safest and immune to most custom hacking
Jan 02 19:56:51 <dtzWill> JMyaDaGod: yeah but no keybindings
Jan 02 19:57:03 <dtzWill> JMyaDaGod: and it could be faster :) hehe
Jan 02 19:57:14 <Leathal> dtzWill: quake's running in a software renderer right? dumb question i know
Jan 02 19:57:16 <zsoc> dtzWill: excellent :) so I suppose the x86 assembly isn't an issue while cross compiling on a x86 host machine?
Jan 02 19:57:17 <destinal> dtzWill: opengl quake would be faster
Jan 02 19:57:22 <destinal> I think
Jan 02 19:57:35 <tlp> I hope Luna takes advantage of the GPU at some point.
Jan 02 19:57:42 <JMyaDaGod> dtzWill: oic
Jan 02 19:57:59 <destinal> zsoc: I think he's using a version that was already ported away from x86 and removes the ASM
Jan 02 19:58:00 <zsoc> tlp: it will. just needs css transform hooks
Jan 02 19:58:04 <tlp> Is this "Fixing Unknown Packages" thing with Preware normal? It seems to happen every time
Jan 02 19:58:07 <tlp> zsoc: wicked.
Jan 02 19:58:17 <zsoc> destinal: ah that's what I was looking for lol
Jan 02 19:58:47 <dtzWill> zsoc: haha no the x86 asm would have to be ported to arm hehe
Jan 02 19:59:29 <dtzWill> zsoc, destinal: turns out that the sdlquake x86 assembly
Jan 02 19:59:35 <dtzWill> is entirely optional
Jan 02 19:59:45 <destinal> dtzWill: aha, smart design
Jan 02 19:59:50 <tlp> yeah, I'm pretty sure Quake has been ported to other platforms
Jan 02 20:00:00 <tlp> I think I had it running on my Jornada 720
Jan 02 20:00:00 <dtzWill> they just override symbols with faster equivalents on the link order
Jan 02 20:00:10 <dtzWill> so no asm just falls back to the c equiv
Jan 02 20:00:17 <tlp> (which is ARM)
Jan 02 20:00:27 <zsoc> destinal: egaudet: bpadalino: sorry about the spam, looking for insight. I can compile against standard open gl libs, but then I can't run the application. and when I compile against the opengl es binaries included on webos, I get undefined errors for many open gl apis. is this just a lack of support?
Jan 02 20:00:29 <dtzWill> you drop dosasm and ... d_draw.o off the makefile and that loses the asm difficulties
Jan 02 20:00:32 <destinal> tlp: well, the c gets compiled for ARM
Jan 02 20:00:50 <xcomp> destinal: i think sdlquake still uses opengl for rendering polygons, just uses sdl for input/audio/video
Jan 02 20:01:04 <zsoc> dtzWill: good to know :) nice work.
Jan 02 20:01:13 <bpadalino> zsoc, which api's specifically ?
Jan 02 20:01:14 <Leathal> has anyone taken a look yet at this nanoGL wrapper the maemo guys are using to get 3d accleration out of GL-quake 1/2/3?
Jan 02 20:01:18 <tlp> there are so many SDL apps out there... this is exciting stuff.
Jan 02 20:01:21 <MetaView> quake runs well on a PalmOS centro too
Jan 02 20:01:38 <zsoc> sdl !gl to my knowledge
Jan 02 20:02:03 <xcomp> zsoc: is there some documentation of any sort on GLES somewhere?
Jan 02 20:02:08 <dtzWill> zsoc: ty, you too :)
Jan 02 20:02:09 <Leathal> 3d acceleration is a little beyond me, but it looks like nanoGL allows most GL games to run under GLES
Jan 02 20:02:14 <xcomp> it might just be a GL/GLES thing
Jan 02 20:02:21 <dtzWill> also whoever was asking it does /not/ build in the autobuilder
Jan 02 20:02:29 <dtzWill> mostly b/c the autobuilder doesn't have my build env :(
Jan 02 20:02:35 <zsoc> bpadalino: about 30+, can't paste from my pre atm. I can name some of them?
Jan 02 20:02:45 <tlp> uhm. So I've got OpenSSH running on port 22, and dropbear running on port 222.
Jan 02 20:02:55 <dtzWill> and since there are efforts to get the aptched libsdl, and Piranha and friends all in there that wasn't a priority
Jan 02 20:03:02 <destinal> tlp: lol
Jan 02 20:03:05 <bpadalino> zsoc, please do
Jan 02 20:03:21 <zsoc> bpadalino: also, some of them complain from testgl.c, and others from libGLES_CM and v2
Jan 02 20:03:48 <tlp> probably not kind to my battery :p
Jan 02 20:03:49 <zsoc> dtzWill: where did you come from btw?
Jan 02 20:03:52 <bpadalino> so it's just because you can't get them to link to each other or something ?
Jan 02 20:03:58 <destinal> dtzWill: I think I'm going to try autobuilding based on binaries.  if the libs are LGPL, we can host the binaries.
Jan 02 20:04:01 <jacques> dammit. why can't distros agree on locations for things like arch and uname
Jan 02 20:04:08 <destinal> dtzWill: we can always improve
Jan 02 20:04:10 <destinal> later
Jan 02 20:04:35 <jacques> gentoo: /usr/bin/uname /bin/arch F12: /bin/uname /usr/bin/arch
Jan 02 20:04:43 <zsoc> bpadalino: you know. even glBegin is unreferenced. and I know every version of gl has that :p
Jan 02 20:04:56 <dtzWill> destinal: soudns good. if you need help getting quake to bulid i
Jan 02 20:05:01 <Leathal> okay well if anyone is interested here's a link to a gl-quake source that supposedly compiles with opengles 3d hardware acceleration http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/quake_v105_src.7z
Jan 02 20:05:13 <dtzWill> *i'd be happy, i just didn't commit my makefile, etc, since it uses my own build env setup
Jan 02 20:05:24 <jacques> and of course configure hardwires the locations
Jan 02 20:05:32 <dtzWill> Leathal: ooo nice
Jan 02 20:05:55 <dtzWill> Leathal: didn't mean to ignore your suggestions, that nanoGL sounds useful even if i'm not entirely sure how it works :):)
Jan 02 20:06:24 <xcomp> zsoc: i'm looking at the openGL ES reference right now and I don't see a glBegin function
Jan 02 20:06:26 <Leathal> dtzWill: haha it's cool. documentation is ridiculously hard to find on this stuff. its all from the maemo and beagleboard communities
Jan 02 20:06:31 <dtzWill> zsoc: i've been following loosely but haven't had much time to start a project, the doom port drew me in :)
Jan 02 20:06:38 <zsoc> bpadalino: it's gotta be a linking issue. I'm going to go read some opengles docs and find out what's normal prceedure
Jan 02 20:06:40 <tlp> is it normal to have /opt mounted twice?
Jan 02 20:06:55 <rwhitby> destinal: if `grep /media/cryptofs/apps /etc/palm/luna.conf` ; then ...
Jan 02 20:07:00 <bpadalino> glBegin isn't defined in any of the libGLES libraries
Jan 02 20:07:07 <zsoc> dtzWill: ah, glad I could suck in good devs ;)
Jan 02 20:07:17 <xcomp> yeah, GLES is clearly a subset of GL
Jan 02 20:07:19 <Leathal> here's quake2 http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/quake2_v102_src.7z and the quake3 arena engine http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/q3a_v101_src.7z for what its worth
Jan 02 20:07:36 <xcomp> stuff must be ported
Jan 02 20:07:49 <destinal> rwhitby: minus the backticks, maybe with -q
Jan 02 20:07:51 <tlp> wow, Q3A. That would be wicked awesome.
Jan 02 20:07:56 <egaudet> zsoc, what are you building the libsdl tests?
Jan 02 20:07:57 <MetaView> The nicest game so far I've ported on PalmOS is Hexen2, have a look, would be great on WebOS
Jan 02 20:07:59 <dtzWill> yeah it would
Jan 02 20:08:02 <destinal> if grep -q /media/cryptofs/apps /etc/palm/luna.conf; then
Jan 02 20:08:03 <egaudet> how are you linking the GL
Jan 02 20:08:09 <rwhitby> destinal: gotcha
Jan 02 20:08:20 <zsoc> bpadalino: so.. hm.. so why would palm patch sdl test files that aren't opengles compatible?
Jan 02 20:08:21 <Leathal> xcomp: yeah in those src zips is a wrapper that interprets the gl crap in a way that works with opengles from what i understand
Jan 02 20:08:30 <bpadalino> zsoc, no idea
Jan 02 20:08:37 <bpadalino> maybe they just did a global replace for the widths ?
Jan 02 20:08:40 <bpadalino> http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Introduction_to_OpenGL_ES
Jan 02 20:08:42 <bpadalino> good intro
Jan 02 20:08:45 <dtzWill> just b/c i'm curious where's this testgl, etc, you gurys are playing with?
Jan 02 20:08:56 <bpadalino> lets make a testgles.c and see if we can get it to compile and link appropriately
Jan 02 20:09:19 <zsoc> egaudet: what do you mean how?
Jan 02 20:09:51 <egaudet> zsoc, are you editting the Makefile and putting in -lGL ?
Jan 02 20:10:03 <rwhitby> bah - all this good fun and I'm stuck fixing bloody packaging problems again today :-(
Jan 02 20:10:05 <zsoc> bpadalino: please do. I think my env is good for gles compatible things
Jan 02 20:10:25 <jacques> rwhitby: and I with distro compatibility issues
Jan 02 20:10:38 <Leathal> btw does anybody still have that old fceux ipk that used to be on preyoumind.org a few months ago?
Jan 02 20:10:48 <jacques> comparing config.log's now
Jan 02 20:11:07 <zsoc> egaudet: there's a 'has gl' config option.
Jan 02 20:11:39 <zsoc> Leathal: puff said that ipk is gone
Jan 02 20:11:46 <zsoc> Leathal: that was my next port
Jan 02 20:11:56 <xcomp> so it seems that once we have a gles demo working, the key would be an opengl->gles wrapper library for webos
Jan 02 20:12:17 <tlp> Leathal: I don't think that would work anyway, would it?
Jan 02 20:12:21 <zsoc> egaudet: which ads -lGL, but I remove it and add -lGLES_CM and -lGLESv2
Jan 02 20:12:28 <Leathal> zsoc: blargh, yeah i gave up on gnuboy for now because it refuses to build with SDL support
Jan 02 20:12:46 <Leathal> tlp: probably not, but im bored and it was worth a shot seeing what happened :p
Jan 02 20:12:54 <egaudet> arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc -o testgl testgl.c -g -O2 -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -I/usr/include -DHAVE_OPENGL -L/usr/lib -lSDL -L/usr/lib -ldogless -lGLES_CM -lm
Jan 02 20:13:02 <tlp> Leathal: how about gngb?
Jan 02 20:13:10 <rwhitby> found a problem in the ipkgservice postinst script too which could explain some not starting problems
Jan 02 20:13:18 <zsoc> tlp: fceux should work fine
Jan 02 20:13:21 <tlp> there's also mednafen
Jan 02 20:13:47 <tlp> zsoc: the one Puff built? I thought it'd need to be built against the version of SDL on the phone
Jan 02 20:13:50 <destinal> rwhitby: wow,  the 3rd party bt stack the iphone guys use to play wiimote games compiles and runs on my pre in debian chroot.    http://code.google.com/p/btstack   -- no idea if it's actually doing anything useful, it probably needs *some* porting to really work, but hey, that's a start
Jan 02 20:13:55 <zsoc> egaudet: how did you find my term syntax? lol yes that's what I'm using.
Jan 02 20:14:14 <egaudet> i just configure and make testgl for that
Jan 02 20:14:56 <zsoc> egaudet: well except I don't have -ldogless, and I also link glesv2
Jan 02 20:14:57 <tlp> Leathal: haha, I can provide you an endless list of SDL emulators to try if you're bored. ;)
Jan 02 20:15:12 <zsoc> egaudet: does it work for you? :p
Jan 02 20:15:14 <egaudet> yea I don't know what the heck is -ldogless?
Jan 02 20:15:35 <tlp> I don't have a build environment set up for the Pre, and I doubt it'd be good to actually compile stuff on the device itself.
Jan 02 20:16:12 <zsoc> egaudet: ok I'm going to try this with glgears, although I'm assuming the same error
Jan 02 20:16:30 <zsoc> maybe there is just no standard sdl gles support
Jan 02 20:16:30 <zsoc> which is very possible
Jan 02 20:16:58 <zsoc> tlp: sdl ports compile fine on-device
Jan 02 20:17:07 <zsoc> tlp: doom takes < 1 minute
Jan 02 20:17:12 <tlp> cool. Is gcc and all that in Preware?
Jan 02 20:17:21 <xcomp> i see nanogl in the nokia q3 sources
Jan 02 20:17:29 <tlp> if it's easy to get going, I'll try building some stuff myself
Jan 02 20:17:31 <zsoc> tlp: no, debian chroot, apt uses optware repos
Jan 02 20:17:35 <tlp> ah
Jan 02 20:18:09 <egaudet> zsoc, I get a bunch of undefineds but that is because I don't have any of the other libraries that GLES_CM and SDL need in my path
Jan 02 20:18:25 <zsoc> also thhe gp2x projects are a good place to look for sdl and opengles stuff
Jan 02 20:18:29 <bpadalino> testgl may need to be modified to be gles compatible
Jan 02 20:18:30 <bpadalino> :(
Jan 02 20:18:44 <destinal> heh, btstack is missing some devices and things, but it's nice the code is so portable, this is promising
Jan 02 20:18:47 <zsoc> egaudet: get it from the pre. it's the libpvr* ones
Jan 02 20:18:49 <dtzWill> bpadalino: sorry, where's this testgl from?
Jan 02 20:19:05 <bpadalino> dtzWill: libSDL
Jan 02 20:19:07 <bpadalino> in the tests dir
Jan 02 20:19:15 <zsoc> dtzWill: libsdl core has a /tests. and palms sdl port has patches for /test files
Jan 02 20:19:20 <dtzWill> bpadalino: ty
Jan 02 20:19:24 <egaudet> libsrv_um
Jan 02 20:19:30 <zsoc> dtzWill: testmouse is the best. 5 fingers all recognized at once :D
Jan 02 20:19:33 <egaudet> libIMGegl
Jan 02 20:19:37 <Krystal> I updates to 1.3.5 and I cannot install anything from preware. :(
Jan 02 20:19:40 <tlp> destinal: any luck with the SDL terminal?
Jan 02 20:19:46 <egaudet> packing up all the pre libs now
Jan 02 20:19:58 <Abyssul> Krystal: Give some more details
Jan 02 20:19:59 <zsoc> egaudet: huh? where are you seeing those?
Jan 02 20:20:21 <Krystal> What detaisl do you need?
Jan 02 20:20:26 <zsoc> destinal: sdlterm should be a pretty straight port
Jan 02 20:20:26 <egaudet> in my output, complaining that libGLES_CM needs them
Jan 02 20:20:27 <destinal> tlp: I think the SDL terminal stuff is a library for making a terminal-like screen in an application of your own, but it would be a great start.  no, I've been more focused on the autobuild stuff
Jan 02 20:20:36 <tlp> ah
Jan 02 20:20:37 <dtzWill> zsoc: haha excellent i gotta try that
Jan 02 20:21:12 <bpadalino> destinal: i've put together some headers that help get through stuff .. though i am not sure if it really works or is just silly ..
Jan 02 20:21:15 <Abyssul> Krystal: What do you meaning nothing is installing? Is it a IPKG error? Do the feeds not load?
Jan 02 20:21:46 <Krystal> correct, i am getting the IPKG error
Jan 02 20:22:01 <dtzWill|food> bbiab
Jan 02 20:22:11 <Abyssul> For all packages, or just a specific one Krystal?
Jan 02 20:23:27 * Jack87-WebIRC starts playing doom. has to beat level 5
Jan 02 20:23:42 <tlp> I was doing that, but I need to go eat lunch :p
Jan 02 20:24:16 <destinal> bpadalino: sounds good, and could be useful
Jan 02 20:24:38 <rwhitby> destinal: so I had an idea overnight
Jan 02 20:24:48 <rwhitby> destinal: we should create a staging area git repo
Jan 02 20:25:19 <rwhitby> destinal: it includes all the headers, and it pulls the library binaries automatically out of downloaded files
Jan 02 20:26:15 <rwhitby> destinal: we should be able to use this for cross-compilation of anything against Palm libraries
Jan 02 20:26:34 <rwhitby> destinal: if we don't have open source headers, we reverse-engineer them and include our own versions
Jan 02 20:27:09 <rwhitby> then a clone of the staging repo, and the cs07q3armel toolchain, should be all you need to cross-compile anything for the Pre
Jan 02 20:27:10 <zsoc> egaudet: can you pastebin undefined compilation errors so I an verify we afe having the same issue?
Jan 02 20:27:14 <acydlord> So if nothing gets developed for awhile, i'll know its because zsoc ported doom and everyone is busy playing it
Jan 02 20:29:05 <cryptk> I know I have been playing doom alot lately... can't wait for OpenGL support to be figured out...
Jan 02 20:29:17 <zsoc> there are also libs available for the Pandora handheld console that are sdl and gles
Jan 02 20:31:58 <zsoc> check out cpasjuste's quake3 opengles port for Pandora
Jan 02 20:33:26 <destinal> pandora has an OMAP 3430 also doesn't it?
Jan 02 20:33:53 <zsoc> yeah. only downside is it uses X11
Jan 02 20:33:56 <Abyssul> I can only play the first level of doom
Jan 02 20:33:59 <Abyssul> the rest is shareware?
Jan 02 20:34:05 <cryptk> CPU 	600+ MHz OMAP3530
Jan 02 20:34:09 <zsoc> Abyssul: you're doin it wrong
Jan 02 20:34:15 <Abyssul> Probably :p
Jan 02 20:34:19 <cryptk> that is from wikipedia on the Pandora handheld
Jan 02 20:34:19 <xcomp> cpasjuste only provides binaries, no source
Jan 02 20:34:38 <zsoc> xcomp: oh. whoops
Jan 02 20:34:44 <destinal> by the way I think I found my ideal controller for palm pre DOOM
Jan 02 20:34:48 <destinal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNigpv6BdJ0&feature=fvw  Zeemote JS1
Jan 02 20:34:57 <xcomp> zsoc: I'm checking out the iphone q3 source now
Jan 02 20:35:00 <destinal> first we need bluetooth working :)
Jan 02 20:35:03 <zsoc> also, apparently a common opengl -> port issue is glBegin()'s everywhere
Jan 02 20:35:42 <zsoc> destinal: when we get touch mouse controls we won't need a joy stick
Jan 02 20:35:44 <xcomp> right now I'm looking at two different gles ports of q3 but neither uses sdl
Jan 02 20:35:52 <rwhitby> destinal: comments on staging repo idea?
Jan 02 20:35:58 <xcomp> meaning there's probably work to be done there
Jan 02 20:36:02 <bpadalino> zsoc: when you compile testgl, change the #include to incldue SDL_opengles.h instead
Jan 02 20:36:09 <bpadalino> that would probably givey ou better warnings
Jan 02 20:36:14 <destinal> rwhitby: I like the idea (sorry, was distracted) :)
Jan 02 20:36:18 <bpadalino> like i think glOrtho should be glOrthof or glOrthox
Jan 02 20:37:19 <bpadalino> once you get those errors out of the way at compile time, i think it should work
Jan 02 20:37:23 <bpadalino> Orthof for floats, Orthox for fixed point
Jan 02 20:37:39 <rwhitby> destinal: once I get this ipkgservice mess sorted out I'll start a repo
Jan 02 20:37:41 <destinal> rwhitby: considering all the binaries for ARM are in the doctor, we could obvioously pull those from there
Jan 02 20:37:50 <destinal> rwhitby: and of course the open source repos for lib headers etc
Jan 02 20:37:51 <rwhitby> destinal: exactly, and the SDK for i686 ones
Jan 02 20:37:56 <acydlord> i remember one of the maemo doom ports had touch controls
Jan 02 20:38:30 <rwhitby> destinal: I think this will shorten the cross-compilation effort significantly
Jan 02 20:38:41 <SineOt> Speaking of Doom ports... Am I correct in thinking that the Pixi build for Doom hasn't been updated past 1.1.0? :x
Jan 02 20:39:04 <rwhitby> SineOt: reports where that it would not work on the Pixi
Jan 02 20:39:09 <rwhitby> so the build was removed
Jan 02 20:39:16 <egaudet> zsoc, I think I fixed my env so now I get all those undefined
Jan 02 20:39:25 <acydlord> yeah, video hardware on the pixi is too different than the pre
Jan 02 20:39:30 <SineOt> Hm. Well, okay I guess.
Jan 02 20:39:30 <rwhitby> If someone has the 1.1.0 build working on a Pixi, then I will reinstate Pixi for 1.1.2
Jan 02 20:39:39 <acydlord> i really wish they would have kept an omap proc in the pixi as well
Jan 02 20:39:58 <egaudet> like glPopAttrib which looks like it's part of libGL but not libGLES from the pre, so we can't build testgl as is
Jan 02 20:40:22 <SineOt> I've got as far as getting it to stick on "Error: Could not initialize SDL: Unable to open a console terminal" but that seems like a pretty dead end error.
Jan 02 20:40:38 <acydlord> did anyone ever rebuild sdldoom to use fb0 to re-test it on a pixi? im too lazy
Jan 02 20:41:11 <cryptk> found a possibility of quake 3 on sdl
Jan 02 20:41:12 <cryptk> http://mitglied.lycos.de/Q3Coderz/quake3sdl/
Jan 02 20:41:13 <bpadalino> egaudet: change the #include  to SDL_opengles.h
Jan 02 20:41:23 <bpadalino> and then you get compiler errors for the undefined
Jan 02 20:41:33 <bpadalino> then we can hack away and see how terrible it looks when you get rid of stuff
Jan 02 20:41:36 <SineOt> If you use "export SDL_FBDEV=/dev/fb0" to set it to use that, it dies on that above error, acydlord
Jan 02 20:41:41 <xcomp> cryptk: the problem really right now is porting from opengl to opengles
Jan 02 20:41:46 <acydlord> SineOt, thanks
Jan 02 20:45:35 <Abyssul> Wtf, why are my homebrew apps listed under the Update app
Jan 02 20:45:47 <Abyssul> Doom, Battery monitor, etc
Jan 02 20:45:54 <Abyssul> Oh
Jan 02 20:45:59 <Abyssul> Ha I feel stupid
Jan 02 20:48:39 <rwhitby> Abyssul: we're hoping Palm will update them for you ;-)
Jan 02 20:48:46 <jacques> destinal: was it you who suggested additional configure options for sdl-webos last night?
Jan 02 20:48:55 <bpadalino> egaudet had a nice list
Jan 02 20:49:03 <bpadalino> and his configure line too
Jan 02 20:49:29 <jacques> rwhitby: the additional configure options (I think especially --disable-video-x11) allowed sdl-webos to build on my gentoo box
Jan 02 20:49:42 <jacques> bpadalino: thanks I think it was him now that you mention it
Jan 02 20:49:49 <egaudet> yea the x11 was messing up my build too
Jan 02 20:49:54 <rwhitby> jacques: in optware?
Jan 02 20:50:06 <jacques> egaudet: yeah mine was picking up /usr/include == bad
Jan 02 20:50:10 <zsoc> SineOt: you have a pixi?
Jan 02 20:50:13 <jacques> rwhitby: yes
Jan 02 20:50:24 <egaudet> The extra ones I suggested were all the discrepencies between a palm patched include/SDL_config.h vs. manually running configure
Jan 02 20:50:27 <zsoc> egaudet: did you make the changes bpadalino suggested?
Jan 02 20:50:30 <jacques> rwhitby: I modified the sdl-webos.mk ; shall I commit it?
Jan 02 20:50:35 <egaudet> zsoc, yea
Jan 02 20:50:36 <rwhitby> jacques: yes please
Jan 02 20:50:58 <egaudet> I if 0'd all the non-existant stuff just to get it to build, but that's not going to do us any good I don't think
Jan 02 20:51:05 <SineOt> zsoc: yeah, I do
Jan 02 20:51:05 <zsoc> egaudet: how many undefines we looking at?
Jan 02 20:51:46 <zsoc> SineOt: does lsmod show the pvr module is loaded?
Jan 02 20:52:15 <egaudet> there's not all that many, but enough
Jan 02 20:52:53 <egaudet> http://webos.pastebin.com/m11ecdc96
Jan 02 20:53:02 <SineOt> Hm, lsmod just returns "Module Size Used by" and nothing else
Jan 02 20:53:04 <rwhitby> ok, looking for alpha testers for ipkgservice 0.9.29, specifically anyone still on 1.3.1
Jan 02 20:54:04 <rwhitby> but I need a couple on 1.3.5 as well please
Jan 02 20:54:09 <bpadalino> egaudet: on line 498, try changing that else statement to SDL_OPENGLES
Jan 02 20:54:09 <xcomp> zsoc, rwhitby - how do you know how to define the "window" that gl uses as a rendering surface?
Jan 02 20:54:13 <bpadalino> instead of SDL_OPENGL
Jan 02 20:54:25 <rwhitby> egaudet: note that 0.9.29 does not have the stuff from 0.9.28 in it
Jan 02 20:54:35 <rwhitby> (just a fixed 0.9.27)
Jan 02 20:54:57 <jacques> committed
Jan 02 20:55:24 <xcomp> because if we can do that, I have here source code of a simple gles 3d game that could easily be ported to webos from what I'm seeing
Jan 02 20:55:24 <egaudet> bpadalino, my lines are all changed, what's the context?
Jan 02 20:55:35 <egaudet> I just ran it and have a bunch of junk on my screen now
Jan 02 20:55:40 <xcomp> it's written for arm/wince
Jan 02 20:55:52 <zsoc> SineOt: that's not eight
Jan 02 20:55:52 <bpadalino> if logo && USE_DEPRECATED check ..
Jan 02 20:55:56 <bpadalino> it puts the video_flags ..
Jan 02 20:55:57 <zsoc> SineOt: *right
Jan 02 20:56:00 <bpadalino> video_flags = ..
Jan 02 20:56:10 <rwhitby> destinal: thx for the better grep line
Jan 02 20:56:24 <zsoc> egaudet: wait. it compiled?
Jan 02 20:56:29 <egaudet> 60.45 FPS
Jan 02 20:56:41 <bpadalino> egaudet: junk meaning bad or junk meaning 'cool' ?
Jan 02 20:56:41 <egaudet> bpadalino, SDL_OPENGLES undeclared
Jan 02 20:56:42 <SineOt> Yeah, I don't know what's up with it. It's fresh as could be, I full erased yesterday and doctored to 1.3.5 :x
Jan 02 20:56:52 <windzilla> has anyone taken a look at this opengl to gles converter? http://www.unrealvoodoo.org/hiteck/projects/maemo/
Jan 02 20:56:56 <zsoc> xcomp: window I'd is NULL for fbdev, if that's what you're asking
Jan 02 20:57:06 <egaudet> junk meaning cool, like it opened a card with a bunch of color crap as if it's running a test ;)
Jan 02 20:57:26 <xcomp> zsoc: ah, i see
Jan 02 20:57:30 <egaudet> http://webos.pastebin.com/d5dd3b778
Jan 02 20:57:34 <xcomp> might be even easier then
Jan 02 20:57:42 <bpadalino> egaudet: should be defined in SDL_video.h ..
Jan 02 20:57:47 <bpadalino> +#define SDL_OPENGLES    0x00000040  /* Create an OpenGL-ES rendering context */
Jan 02 20:59:03 <windzilla> there seems to be a gl to gles runtime converter here http://www.unrealvoodoo.org/git/ dunno if that does anything for anyone
Jan 02 21:00:00 <rwhitby> Looks like Rubenstein edged me out for geek of the year. http://www.precentral.net/fast-company-names-jon-rubinstein-geek-year
Jan 02 21:00:01 <xcomp> zsoc: http://xcomputerman.com/files/jellyfish_src.tar.gz
Jan 02 21:00:27 <jacques> rwhitby: I voted for you.
Jan 02 21:00:39 <rwhitby> thx jacques
Jan 02 21:00:53 <zsoc> xcomp: egaudet is the man with the proper environment atm
Jan 02 21:01:24 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: haha anyway i can bind a key to mini map i am so lost on level 6
Jan 02 21:01:39 <xcomp> egaudet: want to take a look at that link?
Jan 02 21:01:45 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: lol
Jan 02 21:01:46 <egaudet> what is it
Jan 02 21:02:05 <zsoc> egaudet: small gles sdl game I think
Jan 02 21:02:05 <rwhitby> destinal: interesting article from benno: http://benno.id.au/blog/2010/01/01/monkey-patching-javascript
Jan 02 21:02:11 <xcomp> it's apparently a simple opengl es game written for arm/wince
Jan 02 21:02:19 <bpadalino> egaudet: did you ever change your #include to be SDL_opengles.h instead of SDL_opengl.h ?
Jan 02 21:02:22 <egaudet> arm/Release/libGLES_CM.dll
Jan 02 21:02:23 <xcomp> looks like porting it would not take a lot of time at all
Jan 02 21:02:27 <egaudet> bpadalino, yea
Jan 02 21:02:29 <bpadalino> ok
Jan 02 21:02:52 <rwhitby> egaudet: do we need to update any patching stuff for the new robust cryptofs check?
Jan 02 21:02:54 <bpadalino> surprised to see the vendor, renderer and other strings to be null ..
Jan 02 21:02:55 <bpadalino> hrm
Jan 02 21:03:09 <xcomp> no sdl in there from what I can tell
Jan 02 21:03:40 <egaudet> rwhitby, I don't think so it just uses IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT
Jan 02 21:04:17 <egaudet> isn't the only thing that needs fixing ipkgservice?
Jan 02 21:04:40 <rwhitby> egaudet: preware-bootstrap and precorder-bootstrap scripts
Jan 02 21:04:48 <rwhitby> egaudet: optware-bootstrap upstart script
Jan 02 21:06:15 <egaudet> xcomp, there is no makefile hmm
Jan 02 21:06:43 <egaudet> it has dll's, is it a winmo game?
Jan 02 21:06:55 <xcomp> egaudet: yeah, wince
Jan 02 21:07:06 <xcomp> it would have to be ported
Jan 02 21:07:36 <xcomp> egaudet: something a lot simpler: http://embedded.org.ua/opengles/gles_pointz.tar.gz
Jan 02 21:07:44 <xcomp> gles/sdl demo
Jan 02 21:08:38 <rwhitby> egaudet: PING - EPR has the same problem as ledmanager - it will create /media/cryptofs/apps on a 1.3.1 device
Jan 02 21:09:02 <rwhitby> egaudet: ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove $i needs a grep -q check around it
Jan 02 21:09:58 <xcomp> egaudet: how do you set up your build environment
Jan 02 21:10:25 <rwhitby> netstatd has the same problem
Jan 02 21:12:01 <SineOt> zsoc: so from reading on google, lsmod just returns the contents of /proc/modules right? would there be another way to look at what /proc/modules contains without using lsmod?
Jan 02 21:12:28 <egaudet> rwhitby, so?
Jan 02 21:12:40 <zsoc> SineOt: ls -la /proc/modules?
Jan 02 21:12:48 <Jack87-WebIRC> yay found my way
Jan 02 21:12:53 <egaudet> what does it matter if there is a /media/cryptofs/apps on 1.3.1?
Jan 02 21:13:29 <bpadalino> SineOt: cat /proc/modules
Jan 02 21:13:31 <egaudet> as long as the installers aren't making the assumption that its existence means to install there
Jan 02 21:14:17 <rwhitby> egaudet: "first do no harm" - we need to put the check in, even if we've fixed ipkgservice, cause other stuff might be making the same check (e.g. netstatd is)
Jan 02 21:15:39 <egaudet> I don't think we are doing harm though.  I should not be limited on what I can create.  I think EPR is correct to blindly remove from both
Jan 02 21:16:26 <rwhitby> egaudet: you don't think creating a /media/cryptofs on 1.3.1 is ham?
Jan 02 21:16:29 <rwhitby> harm?
Jan 02 21:16:31 <egaudet> no
Jan 02 21:16:39 <egaudet> it's just a directory
Jan 02 21:16:43 <SineOt> zsoc: it exists, -r--r--r-- and owned by root
Jan 02 21:16:52 <egaudet> the "harm" is that others wrongly assume things about it existing
Jan 02 21:16:58 <SineOt> bpadalino: cat just kicks back to a prompt with no other output
Jan 02 21:17:03 <rwhitby> egaudet: ok, what if Palm don't do a mkdir -p when they migrate from 1.3.1 to 1.3.5 - such a rogue directory could cause a webOS OTA update failure
Jan 02 21:17:10 <bpadalino> SineOt: i get different output ..
Jan 02 21:17:14 * Jack87-WebIRC scored a rocket launcher
Jan 02 21:17:59 <bpadalino> http://pastie.textmate.org/private/epowq6vaadcc3zpohzwf8a
Jan 02 21:18:14 <SineOt> bpadalino: are you on a Pre?
Jan 02 21:18:21 <egaudet> rwhitby, I dont' think it can cause any failures.  But I will put the checks in EPR, I think the bigger point though is nothing should assume anything about the existence of the dir
Jan 02 21:18:40 <rwhitby> egaudet: I agree nothing should assume it.  Postel's law applies here though.
Jan 02 21:19:04 <nfoxTc> I know you guys are probably going to kill me for this...but which phone has "faster" hardware pre or iphone
Jan 02 21:19:04 <rwhitby> "Be conservative in what you do; be liberal in what you accept from others."
Jan 02 21:19:05 <egaudet> rwhitby, is that netstatd correct?  you have no [] for if grep
Jan 02 21:19:10 <nfoxTc> just curious
Jan 02 21:19:20 <rwhitby> egaudet: yep, no [ ] is the correct form
Jan 02 21:19:24 <nfoxTc> because it seems so far like the pre might surpass the iphone
Jan 02 21:20:16 <en0x> holy shit that flash leds are so bright
Jan 02 21:20:16 <en0x> :S
Jan 02 21:20:34 <nfoxTc> yeah i noticed that too enox lol
Jan 02 21:21:50 <en0x> i;m blind now
Jan 02 21:22:03 <SineOt> bpadalino, zsoc: http://pastie.textmate.org/764317
Jan 02 21:22:23 <en0x> there should be a warning "do not point it at your eyes"
Jan 02 21:23:00 <bpadalino> SineOt, weird - reboot ?
Jan 02 21:23:22 <SineOt> Already have twice, same result :/
Jan 02 21:23:30 <bpadalino> sorry man - no idea
Jan 02 21:23:41 <zsoc> bpadalino: it's a pixi
Jan 02 21:23:51 <bpadalino> oh i have even less of an ide
Jan 02 21:23:51 <bpadalino> a
Jan 02 21:24:16 <egaudet> rwhitby, pushed
Jan 02 21:24:19 <SineOt> Yeah that seems to be the general consensus when it comes to the Pixi haha
Jan 02 21:24:28 <rwhitby> egaudet: thx
Jan 02 21:24:58 <nfoxTc> lol i did the exact same thing en0x
Jan 02 21:25:08 <nfoxTc> nice flashlight though
Jan 02 21:27:56 <egaudet> xcomp, so I grabbed all the libraries off the Pre put them somewhere and use that with rpath-link
Jan 02 21:28:15 <egaudet> Using the toolchain built from the build.git repo to cross compile
Jan 02 21:28:51 <egaudet> that's my "environment".  I'm just winging it.  But I don't know enough about SDL/opengl/Windows to easily port those links
Jan 02 21:29:44 <bpadalino> wing it good
Jan 02 21:30:07 <SineOt> Pulling /proc/modules from my Pixi with WebOS Quick Install, and opening it Vi on the phone... It's just a zero length file
Jan 02 21:30:18 <bpadalino> SineOt: yeah it doesn't work like that
Jan 02 21:30:19 <bpadalino> :(
Jan 02 21:30:31 <bpadalino> it's dynamically created when you cat it
Jan 02 21:30:33 <zsoc> SineOt: lsmod should output things
Jan 02 21:31:00 <SineOt> There's something weird going on, because lsmod and cat just don't see anything
Jan 02 21:31:29 <SineOt> And yeah I'm not exactly anywhere near proficient when it comes to Linux and that sort of stuff, but from reading and looking at everything it seems all the people who are don't have a Pixi
Jan 02 21:31:33 <zsoc> SineOt: I have no reason to believe it works on the pixi
Jan 02 21:32:30 <SineOt> it definitely seems that it doesn't
Jan 02 21:34:08 <nfoxTc> zsoc what would be a good start to start developing some homebrew apps?
Jan 02 21:34:22 <nfoxTc> Im reading K&R right now actualy...so hopefully C
Jan 02 21:34:45 <bpadalino> think of what you want your phone to do .. then pull out whatever tools you need to make it happen
Jan 02 21:35:34 <nfoxTc> hmm
Jan 02 21:36:01 <nfoxTc> sounds good
Jan 02 21:38:20 <rwhitby> SineOt: if the Pixi had wifi, then I'd buy on for development from donations people have sent to me personally.  But it's no good here without wifi.
Jan 02 21:39:21 <SineOt> there's hope, since apparently the Verizon Pixi that's due sometime in the next few months will have Wifi on it if all the leaks are to be believed
Jan 02 21:39:30 <egaudet> where do I get GLES/gl.h and GLES/egl.h
Jan 02 21:39:48 <bpadalino> egaudet: they should be available from khronos
Jan 02 21:40:21 <bpadalino> http://www.khronos.org/registry/gles/
Jan 02 21:40:47 <zsoc> egaudet: I don't think all of gles is usable
Jan 02 21:41:00 <frozenbinary> so anyone figured out how to disable usb passthrough in 1.3.5 ?
Jan 02 21:41:31 <jacques> do we know which opengl es profile the current pre driver implements?
Jan 02 21:41:51 <grndslm> frozenbinary:  http://forums.precentral.net/palm-pre/222045-1-3-5-usb-passthrough-code-webos.html
Jan 02 21:41:57 <bpadalino> jacques: we could look at the symbols and see what is listed and what isn't ?
Jan 02 21:42:20 <jacques> bpadalino: yep. if nobody else does it I will.
Jan 02 21:42:34 <bpadalino> i don't know which symbols are es 2.0 specific
Jan 02 21:45:08 <Mark_M|away_> I'm trying to modify some of the EXIF attributes in the JPEGs from the camera but exiftool gives me a Bad IFD2 directory warning so I can't overwrite the data.
Jan 02 21:46:52 <nfoxTc> hmm I have no idea what patch caused it...but now everytime i get a phone call the camera app opens
Jan 02 21:47:54 <oc80z> whats good
Jan 02 21:48:25 <jwPebcakError_> After I installed the latest webos update preware just sits and spinns on downloading feeds. Did I mess something up?
Jan 02 21:48:46 <dtzWill> does anyone know offhand what version of sdl the pre has?
Jan 02 21:48:58 <oc80z> jwPebcakError_ did u swipe and retry
Jan 02 21:49:09 <jwPebcakError_> a few times now
Jan 02 21:49:30 <jwPebcakError_> I also truned off all the theme feeds since those always took a long time
Jan 02 21:49:47 <ihateyourband> dtzWill: 1.2  http://opensource.palm.com/1.3.5/index.html
Jan 02 21:49:57 <dtzWill> ihateyourband: ty
Jan 02 21:50:21 <jwPebcakError_> before I did the latest webos update I ran the EPR to uninstall all the patches first
Jan 02 21:50:29 <Jack87-WebIRC> jwPebcakError_: try uninstalling preware using webos quick install (package manager to) reinstall it both
Jan 02 21:51:02 <jwPebcakError_> ok I give that a try
Jan 02 21:51:46 <Jack87-WebIRC> when you get preware running again run the emergeny migration tool doohicky
Jan 02 21:52:42 <ihateyourband> nfoxTc: Maybe the "Launch Camera When Unlocked In Landscape" patch? Was doing this to me on message/email notifications
Jan 02 21:53:07 <nfoxTc> hmm
Jan 02 21:53:52 <bpadalino> jacques: silly me .. the name of the lib is libGLESv2.so .. so i am guessing it's v2
Jan 02 21:53:56 <bpadalino> i feel so silly
Jan 02 21:54:46 <tmzt> is there another version of sdl than 1.2?
Jan 02 21:55:13 <bpadalino> yeah i think the version palm is using is a little older
Jan 02 21:55:38 <jwPebcakError_> Its been a long time since I've used WebOS Quick install. will I need to update the app by any chance? Or webOSdoctor?
Jan 02 21:55:40 <bpadalino> oh .. maybe 1.2 is the latest
Jan 02 21:55:47 <zsoc> dtzWill: 1.2.13 more specifically
Jan 02 21:55:56 <dtzWill> zsoc: ty
Jan 02 21:56:00 <zsoc> tmzt: 1.3 is in testing
Jan 02 21:56:04 <tmzt> sdl has been version 1.2 for years
Jan 02 21:56:09 <tmzt> all I'm saying
Jan 02 21:56:15 <tmzt> most of the changes are to modules
Jan 02 21:56:21 <zsoc> jwPebcakError_: do you have terminal app installed?
Jan 02 21:56:25 <tmzt> cool, 1.3 is coming
Jan 02 21:56:37 <jwPebcakError_> +zsoc: no
Jan 02 21:57:08 <zsoc> jwPebcakError_: then get webos quickinstall 2.9.6, it's a quick fix
Jan 02 21:59:39 <hape> zsoc: Did you tested with the real doom.wad. I did with one user and it is not stable. Could it be that it is the same memory preoblem that dtzWill had with quake.
Jan 02 22:00:24 <hape> The doom.wad is 9MB. Could you add the same memory extesion that dtzWill did for quake to doom when you recompile it for the next time
Jan 02 22:00:25 <zsoc> hape: I'm not sure what you mean. I used the suggested wad
Jan 02 22:00:41 <hape> yes that is the demo/shaware veion.
Jan 02 22:00:42 <tmzt> maybe try the one they use on rockbox?
Jan 02 22:00:45 <zsoc> hape: what would be the advantage
Jan 02 22:00:58 <dtzWill> hape: seems to work with doom2, fwiw
Jan 02 22:01:00 <hape> it only has 6 episodes. The full verion had all Episodes
Jan 02 22:01:17 <zsoc> hape: oh. hm
Jan 02 22:01:26 <hape> dtzWill: I'm surprised as the source said it should not
Jan 02 22:01:35 <tmzt> can't you split a wad anyway?
Jan 02 22:01:53 <Jack87-WebIRC> hape: are episodes the leves?
Jan 02 22:02:03 <hape> jep
Jan 02 22:02:03 <zsoc> split a wad.
Jan 02 22:02:14 <hape> zsoc: ?
Jan 02 22:02:20 <sportman> rwhitby how goes progress?
Jan 02 22:02:25 <tmzt> I mean have parts in different zip files
Jan 02 22:02:30 <Jack87-WebIRC> hape: i am on level 7 or 8 something like that i konw i am passed 6
Jan 02 22:02:33 <tmzt> so they don't have to all be mmap'd
Jan 02 22:02:37 <hape> a wad file is aspecial file system from ID. you can not change it
Jan 02 22:02:44 <egaudet> I built a non-working libSDL with palm patches
Jan 02 22:02:46 <tmzt> what?
Jan 02 22:03:01 <rwhitby> sportman: in which area?
Jan 02 22:03:07 <bpadalino> egaudet: haha, it doesn't work ?
Jan 02 22:03:14 <zsoc> egaudet: mine works. and I'm a noob lol
Jan 02 22:03:33 <zsoc> egaudet: so did you have a gl demo working?
Jan 02 22:03:37 <destinal> hape: well, you can change it, but yeah, you don't want to
Jan 02 22:03:40 <egaudet> I put it on the device and doom doesn't work, and testgl seg faults
Jan 02 22:03:44 <jwPebcakError_> Thanks guys
Jan 02 22:03:46 <bpadalino> awesome
Jan 02 22:03:48 <egaudet> although at least mine has GetAttribute unlike palm's
Jan 02 22:04:03 <egaudet> then again I probably screwed something up royally
Jan 02 22:04:07 <bpadalino> :)
Jan 02 22:04:19 <zsoc> egaudet: what does doom do?
Jan 02 22:04:26 <egaudet> nothing
Jan 02 22:04:31 <zsoc> egaudet: could be an nappmgr issue
Jan 02 22:04:38 <egaudet> i didn't try to launch it comand line but it probably would seg fault
Jan 02 22:04:56 <hape> dtzWill: did you mean the second episdode with doo2.wad or the wad from the real DOOM II?
Jan 02 22:05:17 <bpadalino> egaudet: did you use the headers i came up with to build, or did you remove some stuff ?
Jan 02 22:05:21 <SteveApos> welp not sure what the hell i just installed, but now my keyboard is dead lol
Jan 02 22:05:51 <zsoc> SteveApos: that's unlikely to be a software issue
Jan 02 22:06:04 <egaudet> bpadalino, ahh good point forgot I removed stuff
Jan 02 22:06:09 <egaudet> DOH
Jan 02 22:06:15 <dtzWill> hape: doom2.wad, the wad from doom II
Jan 02 22:06:19 <bpadalino> whoops
Jan 02 22:06:29 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: pull battery and put it backin... see if that helps... a restart is always a good idea when shit like that happens
Jan 02 22:06:33 <hape> Jack87-WebIRC: you will get to level 10 the it is the end of the sharware version
Jan 02 22:06:51 <hape> dtzWill: and it worked?
Jan 02 22:06:51 <SteveApos> i'll give it a shot getting ready to pull out the battery as we speak
Jan 02 22:06:57 <bpadalino> egaudet: i am curious what your testgl looked like when it can
Jan 02 22:06:59 <dtzWill> hape: yes, at least for the first level or so
Jan 02 22:07:01 <bpadalino> s/can/ran/
Jan 02 22:07:02 <infobot> bpadalino meant: egaudet: i am curious what your testgl looked like when it ran
Jan 02 22:07:05 <frozenbinary> so i cant replace the usbpassthru js file , without being in USB mode ... to get in usb mode you hold the volume up button and plug in the usb cable right ?
Jan 02 22:07:12 <dtzWill> hape: ultimate doom died for me as well
Jan 02 22:07:16 <egaudet> a bunch of colorful lines
Jan 02 22:07:16 <egaudet> lol
Jan 02 22:07:18 <egaudet> in a card
Jan 02 22:07:23 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 02 22:07:43 <egaudet> I think there's a bug in libSDL
Jan 02 22:07:46 <egaudet> at least it seems like a bug to me
Jan 02 22:07:54 <bpadalino> ??
Jan 02 22:07:56 <SteveApos> anyone ever figure out whats been causing the quake demo to give certain people the starting message and then nothing happens?
Jan 02 22:08:06 <egaudet> SDL_video.c, line1624
Jan 02 22:08:24 <egaudet> It seems to me it should be "&& this->GLES_GetAttribute" not "&& video->GL_GetAttribute"
Jan 02 22:08:29 <zsoc> egaudet: ask in #sdl
Jan 02 22:08:41 <zsoc> egaudet: oh wait
Jan 02 22:08:46 <zsoc> no that's a palm issue
Jan 02 22:08:49 <egaudet> yea
Jan 02 22:08:49 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: that can be caused by having my tether wifi patch installed.
Jan 02 22:08:54 <zsoc> sdl isn't gles specific
Jan 02 22:09:25 <dtzWill> SteveApos: maybe  they don't have enough free memory?
Jan 02 22:09:27 <SteveApos> Jack87: just having it installed or in use?
Jan 02 22:09:46 <egaudet> where are your headers again bpadalino ?
Jan 02 22:09:54 <SteveApos> dtzWill: thats what I thought at first too because it looked like it was trying to open a card but theres no memory error
Jan 02 22:10:02 <bpadalino> i pasted them here: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/w7eeyu0hbfjyh6cm5ihaq
Jan 02 22:10:08 <bpadalino> no idea if that works or not
Jan 02 22:10:26 <destinal> SteveApos: you have to run from the terminal to see if there is an error about /dev/fb1
Jan 02 22:10:32 <dtzWill> SteveApos: you ran it from the terminal?
Jan 02 22:10:37 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: having the wifi patch applled for mytether not the program itself. you can remove it in the options menu of the wifi section in my tether
Jan 02 22:11:15 <bpadalino> egaudet: video and this are the same thing... but yeah, i agree it should check for GLES not GL_GetAttribute
Jan 02 22:11:15 <SteveApos> oh well all i have is the app itself not the patch and no dtz havent tried terminal yet
Jan 02 22:11:23 <SteveApos> btw battery fixed the keyboard jack
Jan 02 22:11:59 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: glad that worked.. so if you open your camera right now can you take pictures?
Jan 02 22:12:24 <SteveApos>  yeah pictures just worked fine
Jan 02 22:12:39 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: are you on web os 1.3.5?
Jan 02 22:12:49 <SteveApos> yeah
Jan 02 22:13:05 <Jack87-WebIRC> then i am fresh out of ideas... dtzWill take your swing at it
Jan 02 22:15:00 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: what am i swinging at?
Jan 02 22:15:33 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: what might be causing his error... any ideas?
Jan 02 22:16:25 <Jack87-WebIRC> wait SteveApos have you even tried it yet? are you getting the error?
Jan 02 22:16:34 <bpadalino> egaudet: hopefully using that stuff allows for linking ..
Jan 02 22:16:35 <SteveApos> just reinstalled gimme a sec
Jan 02 22:17:42 <egaudet> no more seg fault with your headers :)
Jan 02 22:17:43 <SteveApos> yeah still just getting starting and nothing happens jack
Jan 02 22:18:01 <destinal> egaudet: you can now build a working lib from source?
Jan 02 22:18:20 <egaudet> "working" let me try doom, hold on
Jan 02 22:18:27 <SteveApos> phone slowed up for a little bit like it was trying to load it, but nothing happens
Jan 02 22:18:37 <bpadalino> whoa
Jan 02 22:18:40 <bpadalino> no more seg faults ?
Jan 02 22:18:45 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: does doom work for you?
Jan 02 22:18:48 <egaudet> bpadalino, that's right :P
Jan 02 22:18:52 <egaudet> how do I run doom command line?
Jan 02 22:18:55 <SteveApos> yeah doom works perfectly
Jan 02 22:18:59 <SteveApos> thats why i cant figure this out
Jan 02 22:19:03 <SteveApos> not sure why quake wouldnt
Jan 02 22:19:07 <bpadalino> egaudet: just run the doom binary i thought ?
Jan 02 22:20:05 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: ya now thats really odd. can you open terminal or ssh into the pre and try running the game then see if you get any messages
Jan 02 22:20:08 <egaudet> W_Init: Init WADfiles.
Jan 02 22:20:08 <egaudet> Error: W_InitFiles: no files found
Jan 02 22:20:08 <jacques> bpadalino: oh nice you did the PContext.h one. I just punted on that
Jan 02 22:20:30 <bpadalino> jacques: yeah - i went through and figured out what methods were available and whatnot
Jan 02 22:20:34 <SteveApos> Yeah Jack thats what i was getting ready to try
Jan 02 22:20:35 <bpadalino> egaudet: gotta run from the file where the binary is
Jan 02 22:20:45 <bpadalino> from the location where the binary is
Jan 02 22:20:51 <bpadalino> since it looks in . for the wad
Jan 02 22:21:11 <rwhitby> Anyone running ipkgservice 0.9.29 successfully now?  on 1.3.1 or 1.3.5 ?
Jan 02 22:21:20 <egaudet> ahh ok
Jan 02 22:21:28 <egaudet>  /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdldoom/bin/doom: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZN10PContext2D12CreatePixmapEjj
Jan 02 22:21:47 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: i dont think the terminal app will display the error mightneed to ssh into the phone... or use nova term
Jan 02 22:21:49 <en0x> rwhitby, runs fine on 1.3.5
Jan 02 22:21:54 <jacques> bpadalino: mind if we merge your derived headers into optware? I made some last night but yours look better
Jan 02 22:22:18 <dtzWill> how did you guys build testgl? some gles->gl library?
Jan 02 22:22:42 <ihateyourband> rwhitby: Also 1.3.5 and good to go
Jan 02 22:22:53 <bpadalino> jacques: go nuts
Jan 02 22:23:04 <jacques> bpadalino: ty
Jan 02 22:23:12 <bpadalino> but it looks like the symbol lookup is no good ..
Jan 02 22:23:14 <bpadalino> hrmm ..
Jan 02 22:23:51 <destinal> PContext2D::CreatePixmap(unsigned int, unsigned int)
Jan 02 22:23:55 <bpadalino> yeah i  jsut did that
Jan 02 22:23:56 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 02 22:23:56 <destinal> c++filt'd
Jan 02 22:24:00 <destinal> :)
Jan 02 22:24:02 <bpadalino> did i not have one of those in that header ?
Jan 02 22:24:14 <bpadalino> oh, i did define it ..
Jan 02 22:24:17 <bpadalino> but it couldn't find it ?
Jan 02 22:24:22 <destinal> bpadalino: isn't undefined symbol a failure to link?
Jan 02 22:24:32 <destinal> to find the right function in a linked lib
Jan 02 22:24:58 <destinal> egaudet: can you tell me what you have linked to your SDL lib?
Jan 02 22:25:04 <destinal> s/to/by/
Jan 02 22:25:05 <infobot> destinal meant: egaudet: can you tell me what you have linked by your SDL lib?
Jan 02 22:25:33 <destinal> echo `strings /usr/lib/libSDL.so |grep \.so$`
Jan 02 22:25:38 <bpadalino> destinal , yeah i think so ..
Jan 02 22:25:44 <bpadalino> 0006abf0 W PSoftContext2D::CreatePixmap(unsigned int, unsigned int) const
Jan 02 22:25:51 <destinal> it should be:     libnapp.so libPiranha.so libpalmvibe.so libEGL.so /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so libGLES_CM.so
Jan 02 22:25:58 <rwhitby> ok, I think I'm out of ipkgservice fixing hell now.  Where are we up to?
Jan 02 22:26:17 <bpadalino> i wonder if i need that .. to define PSoftContext2D and PContext2D is an interface ?
Jan 02 22:26:18 <egaudet> libnapp.so libPiranha.so libpalmvibe.so libEGL.so /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so libGLES_CM.so
Jan 02 22:28:14 <bpadalino> i wonder if i have to change over that header ..
Jan 02 22:28:40 <bpadalino> to be PSoftContext2D ... but i wonder if PContext2D is just an interface or what the deal is
Jan 02 22:29:21 <destinal> rwhitby: bpadalino has made some headers that seem to get us most of the way there
Jan 02 22:29:24 <jacques> destinal: there are needed libs which end in .so.?
Jan 02 22:29:32 <jacques> I prefer: "arm-none-linux-gnueabi-objdump -p libSDL-1.2.so.0.11.2 | grep NEEDED
Jan 02 22:29:33 <jacques> "
Jan 02 22:29:44 <destinal> jacques: ah, objdump
Jan 02 22:29:46 <destinal> good idea
Jan 02 22:29:46 <bpadalino> virtual PPixmap *CreatePixmap( unsigned int width, unsigned int height ) ; in the header instead?
Jan 02 22:30:01 <rwhitby> nice of Palm to leave that on the device ...
Jan 02 22:30:08 <jacques> destinal: yeah I am learning to really like objdump :-)
Jan 02 22:30:31 <zsoc> I feel so removed from society. I'm in a pizaa place on an irc dev channel lol
Jan 02 22:30:45 <JMyaDaGod> at least your eating lol
Jan 02 22:31:00 <rwhitby> zsoc: your concept of society just needs adjusting
Jan 02 22:31:12 <destinal> rwhitby: welcome to the new society :)
Jan 02 22:31:34 <rb2k> almost bought a palm pre... then I found out that the european version is being treated like crap :-/
Jan 02 22:31:56 <rwhitby> rb2k: blame your carriers
Jan 02 22:32:00 <rb2k> I do
Jan 02 22:32:04 <rb2k> damn them!
Jan 02 22:32:14 <rwhitby> they're the ones holding up the 1.3.5 update, not Palm
Jan 02 22:32:30 <rb2k> on the other side, palm could have had the balls apple does and at least kept a grip on that stuff
Jan 02 22:32:36 <destinal> rb2k: worry not -- we'll route around them
Jan 02 22:32:46 <rb2k> also: no paid apps, no "real way" of setting APNs
Jan 02 22:32:47 <rwhitby> rb2k: they're not big enough to do that
Jan 02 22:32:52 <rb2k> sadly, yes
Jan 02 22:33:07 <rb2k> *sigh*
Jan 02 22:33:16 <JMyaDaGod> anyone in here use centro batterys as backups?
Jan 02 22:33:30 <rwhitby> Palm is tiny compared to the hold that carriers have over consumers in the US and EU who are prepared to give up their control over their phone for pricing subsidies.
Jan 02 22:33:36 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: nah, not eating lol
Jan 02 22:33:48 <JMyaDaGod> o just using wifi
Jan 02 22:33:49 <JMyaDaGod> ?
Jan 02 22:33:50 <jacques> hmm, objdump doesn't show these as NEEDED, but I also see references to: libasound.so.2 libEGL.so /usr/lib/egl/libeglsubdrv.so libGLES_CM.so
Jan 02 22:33:51 <destinal> JMyaDaGod: wow, centro batteries are cheap on ebay
Jan 02 22:34:01 <rwhitby> If everyone bought unlocked GSM devices, the carriers would no longer have any power.
Jan 02 22:34:03 <zsoc> comuting time brb
Jan 02 22:34:03 <jacques> maybe they are optional ?
Jan 02 22:34:16 <rb2k> the sad thing is that it USED to be like that in Germany
Jan 02 22:34:20 <rb2k> before the iphone
Jan 02 22:34:27 <rb2k> most devices were available on all networks afair
Jan 02 22:34:55 <JMyaDaGod> i have probably 5 of them batteries sitting around been scared to use them..... ive seen thread where people say they use them but just wanted to ask people in this room since the seem smarter than average palm user lol
Jan 02 22:35:03 <rwhitby> rb2k: yep, so the consumers have given the power back - you can't blame the carriers for acting like businesses and accepting the power back
Jan 02 22:35:13 <bpadalino> so where do we stand with the libsdl stuff?
Jan 02 22:35:30 <rb2k> I blame the carriers for not getting that they just supply the network
Jan 02 22:35:35 <rb2k> they keep on coming up with new crap
Jan 02 22:35:38 <rb2k> and it never works
Jan 02 22:35:43 <destinal> the carriers are fighting against becoming commodities (which they should be) -- your land-line phone company doesn't try to own your home or your phone
Jan 02 22:35:49 <Jack87-WebIRC> JMyaDaGod: ya o ise centro battery as a back up
Jan 02 22:36:05 <rwhitby> rb2k: carriers that are just pipes become commodities.  shareholders don't like companies that are commodities.
Jan 02 22:36:17 <JMyaDaGod> ok thanks Jack87 thats a reliable source thanks
Jan 02 22:36:22 <jacques> gred FTL
Jan 02 22:36:32 <jacques> s/e/ee/
Jan 02 22:36:32 <infobot> jacques meant: greed FTL
Jan 02 22:36:36 <egaudet> I cant find PContext2D references anywhere
Jan 02 22:36:45 <bpadalino> egaudet: yeah it's PSoftContext2D
Jan 02 22:36:48 <destinal> they _should_ be commodities.  we don't need value adds from the vendor, it should present a standard set of services
Jan 02 22:36:58 <bpadalino> but they call it PContext2D in the file ..
Jan 02 22:37:05 <destinal> the creativity should happen on the device which you can use on any carrier
Jan 02 22:37:06 <bpadalino> not sure how to do that ..
Jan 02 22:37:13 <bpadalino> egaudet: maybe make those functions virtual in the header ?
Jan 02 22:37:15 <Jack87-WebIRC> JMyaDaGod: haha i wouldnt call me reliable source. but it hasnt caused me any problems
Jan 02 22:37:32 <bpadalino> that way it will give PSoftContext2D a way to grab them ?
Jan 02 22:37:35 <rwhitby> destinal: it's only the consumers that can drive that, by buying unlocked phones
Jan 02 22:38:13 <JMyaDaGod> Jack87-WebIRC: is there is a work around for the mytether free for 1.3.5?
Jan 02 22:39:06 <destinal> rwhitby: makes me wish I would have waited for the German GSM pre and imported it for use on ATT or Tmobile... or I suppose I could have supported nokia which sells unlocked phones directly to anyone anywhere
Jan 02 22:39:14 <destinal> the N900 looks cool :)
Jan 02 22:39:16 <egaudet> I haven't done C++ for so long, not sure how to do that bpadalino
Jan 02 22:39:24 <jacques> egaudet: are you trying to run a cross-compiled libsdl.so ?
Jan 02 22:39:32 <egaudet> yea jacques
Jan 02 22:39:41 <bpadalino> egaudet: just type "virtual" before the function names in that PContext2D
Jan 02 22:39:46 <Jack87-WebIRC> JMyaDaGod: i havent tried it. i would imagine just reinstalling it would have it workig again
Jan 02 22:39:48 <bpadalino> rebuild .. and see if that helps
Jan 02 22:40:08 <jacques> egaudet: ah OK :-) it has to be configured / built perfectly for that to work
Jan 02 22:40:15 <jacques> I guess we aren't there yet
Jan 02 22:40:35 <egaudet> well we are almost there, the holdup is the missing palm headers
Jan 02 22:40:40 <JMyaDaGod> i mean i didnt even get it working on 1.3.1 the wifi that is..... is it possible?
Jan 02 22:40:41 <jacques> (quite yet)
Jan 02 22:40:50 <egaudet> the only thing I dont' have in mine is alsa
Jan 02 22:41:17 <jacques> egaudet: did you build yours from an optware checkout?
Jan 02 22:41:19 <egaudet>  /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdldoom/bin/doom: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZTV10PContext2D
Jan 02 22:41:25 <egaudet> jacques, no
Jan 02 22:41:46 <jacques> oh :-(
Jan 02 22:41:54 <egaudet> I'm sure it would work
Jan 02 22:41:59 <egaudet> with a couple tweaks
Jan 02 22:42:06 <bpadalino> hrmm ..
Jan 02 22:42:09 <bpadalino> a vtable is now missing ?
Jan 02 22:42:42 <bpadalino> oh ok .
Jan 02 22:43:04 <bpadalino> that doesn't really help too much it seems .. maybe we do need to define PSoftContext2D
Jan 02 22:43:21 <destinal> hmm, $4.89 w/ free shipping 1150mAh OEM centro batteries on ebay
Jan 02 22:43:26 <destinal> I may have to snag a couple
Jan 02 22:43:53 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: SteveApos is getting segfault running quake
Jan 02 22:44:21 <bpadalino> egaudet: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/gedmlbtsqelcgmfcghnva - what if you try that ?
Jan 02 22:45:19 <egaudet> what env var do I set to add a library path?  LD_LIBRARY_PATH ?
Jan 02 22:45:32 <egaudet> does that work at build time
Jan 02 22:45:36 <nfoxTc> so how long did it take you guys to actualy program preware?
Jan 02 22:46:15 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: he is getting the segfualt when trying to launch the game (not enter a new game like we ran into last night)
Jan 02 22:46:34 <egaudet>  /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdldoom/bin/doom: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libSDL-1.2.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZN14PSoftContext2D12CreatePixmapEjj
Jan 02 22:47:01 <dtzWill> egaudet: what are you trying to do? -Wl,-rpath=LIBPATH hard-codes in the same search path that LD_LIBRARY_PATH uses
Jan 02 22:47:10 <dtzWill> egaudet: or do you mean for compilation/linking use?
Jan 02 22:47:34 <rwhitby> nfoxTc: it was about a month
Jan 02 22:47:36 <idontwan2know> Maybe I'm being dense here, but what good do Centro batteries do you unless you happen to have a Centro around to charge them in?
Jan 02 22:47:47 <bpadalino> oh, there needs to be a const in there
Jan 02 22:47:50 <egaudet> dtzWill, I wanted it to pick them up for compliation/link without modifying the makefile
Jan 02 22:48:21 <rwhitby> egaudet: LDFLAGS ?
Jan 02 22:49:13 <egaudet> rwhitby, what's the process for finding the libs like -lnapp when building sdl-webos from optware
Jan 02 22:49:29 <SteveApos> dtzWill: do you know what would cause quake to give this error root@palm-webos-device:/# sh quake
Jan 02 22:49:29 <SteveApos> Added packfile ./id1/pak0.pak (339 files)
Jan 02 22:49:29 <SteveApos> FindFile: can't find gfx/pop.lmp
Jan 02 22:49:29 <SteveApos> Playing shareware version.
Jan 02 22:49:29 <SteveApos> PackFile: ./id1/pak0.pak : gfx.wad
Jan 02 22:49:30 <SteveApos> Console initialized.
Jan 02 22:49:32 <SteveApos> Segmentation fault
Jan 02 22:49:34 <bpadalino> egaudet: change it to be const like this ..
Jan 02 22:49:43 <bpadalino> const PPixmap * CreatePixmap( unsigned int width, unsigned int height ) ;
Jan 02 22:49:47 <rwhitby> egaudet: they need to be staged first
Jan 02 22:49:59 <jacques> egaudet: I just put them in staging/opt/lib/ and it found them
Jan 02 22:50:01 <zsoc> OOOooook. So where we at?
Jan 02 22:50:17 <rwhitby> egaudet: but I'm working on a better solution in preware/build.git for this stuff that no longer needs optware
Jan 02 22:50:29 <bpadalino> zsoc, trying to get the silly headers i put together with a libsdl built from our own stuff to match up what's out there ..
Jan 02 22:50:48 <en0x> is ipkgservice signed now? i no longer get the script message
Jan 02 22:50:49 <en0x> :)
Jan 02 22:50:51 <zsoc> bpadalino: what was missing that we needed extra headers?
Jan 02 22:50:58 <dtzWill> SteveApos: no idea. can you do a 'md5sum id1/pak0.pak' from that directory?
Jan 02 22:51:06 <bpadalino> zsoc: ./src/video/fbcon/Piranha/PContext.h
Jan 02 22:51:15 <bpadalino> ./src/haptic/linux/PalmVibe.h
Jan 02 22:51:17 <SteveApos> yeah let me get back to the bin directory real quick
Jan 02 22:51:24 <bpadalino> and ./src/events/webos/integrated/napp/NApp_c.h
Jan 02 22:51:52 <egaudet> bpadalino, ./src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvfb.cc:13: error: invalid conversion from 'const PPixmap*' to 'PPixmap*'
Jan 02 22:51:54 <dtzWill> SteveApos: sure. that command should help determine if perhaps pak0.pak somehow got corrupt/incomplete
Jan 02 22:52:04 <Jack87-WebIRC> JMyaDaGod: oh no.. the wifi will not work on the free one
Jan 02 22:52:14 <bpadalino> ruh roh
Jan 02 22:52:28 <egaudet> what lib is PSoftContext2D in, maybe I'm missing that link?
Jan 02 22:52:28 <zsoc> bpadalino: hm... that seems fun.
Jan 02 22:52:32 <SteveApos> says theres no such file
Jan 02 22:52:56 <Jack87-WebIRC> inside the id1 dir
Jan 02 22:53:06 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: cd id1
Jan 02 22:53:13 <SteveApos> lol my bad
Jan 02 22:54:07 <bpadalino> ah crap ..
Jan 02 22:54:56 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: lol i put id1 (one) needs to be idl (L)
Jan 02 22:55:03 <bpadalino> egaudet: move the const to the end of the line right before the ; ..
Jan 02 22:55:35 <destinal> bpadalino: pretty sure it's libPiranha
Jan 02 22:55:51 <bpadalino> destinal: what is ? i am lost :(
Jan 02 22:56:06 <destinal> err egaudet: pretty sure it's libPiranha
Jan 02 22:56:17 <egaudet> I can't find CreatePixmap in libPiranha
Jan 02 22:56:18 <bpadalino> oh, yeah it's libPiranha
Jan 02 22:56:23 <bpadalino> it's there
Jan 02 22:56:55 <bpadalino> hrmm .
Jan 02 22:57:14 <egaudet> nm libPiranha.so | grep CreatePixmap
Jan 02 22:58:03 <atlanta> hey hey
Jan 02 22:58:19 <SteveApos> root@palm-webos-device:/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/bin/id1# md5sum pak0.pak
Jan 02 22:58:19 <SteveApos> 5906e5998fc3d896ddaf5e6a62e03abb  pak0.pak
Jan 02 22:58:40 <bpadalino> egaudet: yeah you're right .. i think it's a W in libSDL .. what does W mean in nm ?
Jan 02 22:58:58 <zsoc> bpadalino: So, from what you can tell, how much of the full OpenGL ES spec is missing from Palm's libsdl port?
Jan 02 22:59:10 <bpadalino> zsoc, i think it's all there?
Jan 02 22:59:21 <egaudet>   "w" The symbol is a weak symbol that has not been specifically tagged as a weak object symbol.  When a weak defined symbol is
Jan 02 22:59:21 <egaudet>                linked with a normal defined symbol, the normal defined symbol is used with no error.  When a weak undefined symbol is
Jan 02 22:59:21 <egaudet>                linked and the symbol is not defined, the value of the symbol is determined in a system-specific manner without error.
Jan 02 22:59:21 <egaudet>                On some systems, uppercase indicates that a default value has been specified.
Jan 02 22:59:21 <zsoc> bpadalino: oh, then we're pretty golden.
Jan 02 22:59:24 <egaudet> woops
Jan 02 22:59:33 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: do you thinking moding the config file will bind keys?
Jan 02 23:00:02 <bpadalino> egaudet: capital W is the same thing ?
Jan 02 23:00:06 <egaudet> yea
Jan 02 23:00:32 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: sure; i just don't know what the values are. it's on my agenda to log all the keys as they're pressed and see if i can't make a reasonable config
Jan 02 23:00:39 <bpadalino> hrmm ..
Jan 02 23:00:49 <bpadalino> egaudet: so that W is in libSDL
Jan 02 23:00:53 <SteveApos> dtzWill: that help at all?
Jan 02 23:01:06 <Jack87-WebIRC> SteveApos: ...
Jan 02 23:01:07 <Jack87-WebIRC>  md5sum pak0.pak 5906e5998fc3d896ddaf5e6a62e03abb  pak0.pak
Jan 02 23:01:13 <dtzWill> SteveApos: thanks for the remidner sorry
Jan 02 23:01:19 <dtzWill> SteveApos: yes that means your pak0.pak is just fine
Jan 02 23:01:24 <egaudet> yea so I don't know what that means?  inline or something?
Jan 02 23:01:25 <dtzWill> which it really should be, but o_O
Jan 02 23:01:31 <ird> does anyone else get a blank sms back instantly after sending one?
Jan 02 23:01:40 <ird> sometimes.
Jan 02 23:01:46 <atlanta> ird: negative
Jan 02 23:02:11 <nfoxTc> sometimes ird..but only when my imaginary friend isnt mad at me
Jan 02 23:02:17 <ird> heh
Jan 02 23:02:29 <ird> Maybe it's a network issue.
Jan 02 23:02:32 <frozenbinary> sometimes
Jan 02 23:02:46 <ird> It's happened over multiple WebOS versions and installs.
Jan 02 23:03:01 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: looks like the menu buttons need their own set of bindings maybe?
Jan 02 23:03:42 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: Looks like we can use the gesture area. It gives an ascii value
Jan 02 23:04:00 <frozenbinary> really?
Jan 02 23:04:06 <frozenbinary> thats neat
Jan 02 23:04:08 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: nice.. that would be awesome for changing weapons
Jan 02 23:04:49 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: now the back gesture acts as escape on doom
Jan 02 23:04:55 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: yeah hold on, lemme run that utility again and see which one it is
Jan 02 23:04:55 <synnine> maybe someone can help me with the pdf extract & landscape patch?
Jan 02 23:04:56 <egaudet> bpadalino, you think we are going to have to disassemble CreatePixmap and make it ourselves?
Jan 02 23:05:03 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: Yeah, back gesture gives 'esc' ascii, go figure right? ;)
Jan 02 23:05:06 <BoBoYsDaDDa> ok i know this isn't a linux help chan but can someone please tell me what i am doing wrong with this unzip command? unzip -d /usr/local/games/epsxe/ /Home/Download/epsxe160lin.tmp
Jan 02 23:05:10 <bpadalino> egaudet: i am not sure .. :\
Jan 02 23:05:26 <zsoc> BoBoYsDaDDa: unzip? ew
Jan 02 23:05:40 <egaudet> anyone can read assembly good, the function has less than 30 instructions
Jan 02 23:05:48 <dtzWill> zsoc: good find with the gesture area!
Jan 02 23:06:33 <synnine> how do you launch the pdf extractor?  yes I'm stupid.
Jan 02 23:06:33 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: ya.. lol. as for full swipe that be nice to know. i dont think it will work on doom (i dont think it had next weapon just number keys) but for quake and some others it will come in really handy
Jan 02 23:06:35 <egaudet> http://webos.pastebin.com/m349f2c78
Jan 02 23:07:04 <synnine> doesn't show up in launcher
Jan 02 23:07:10 <acydlord> Jack87-WebIRC, full swipe may cause issues with some who have advanced gestures enabled
Jan 02 23:07:29 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: did you ever upload the sdlquake file
Jan 02 23:08:07 <Jack87-WebIRC> acydlord: when i have doom running doing fullswipe doesnt do anything (i have advanced gestures enabled)
Jan 02 23:08:21 <synnine> damn, back to google.
Jan 02 23:08:35 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: which sdlquake? that doesn't crash? not yet no
Jan 02 23:08:39 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: the working sdlquake file
Jan 02 23:08:49 <swisstomcat> well, here i am
Jan 02 23:08:51 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: I can upload it and link here; publishing it more won't be useful yet
Jan 02 23:08:54 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: one sec
Jan 02 23:09:17 <acydlord> Jack87-WebIRC, ahh, forgot that sdl probably handles the keymap subsystem at that point
Jan 02 23:09:25 <Jack87-WebIRC> ya thats what i ment. i want to play with key bindings (i really dont know what i am doing so dont think i will be useful)
Jan 02 23:09:26 <rwhitby> zsoc: do we have a diff of any and all of the source file changes that you made to compile sdldoom?
Jan 02 23:09:35 <acydlord> and i think pgup pgdown did next/prev weapon
Jan 02 23:10:00 <Mark_M> Sounds like a Doom discussion
Jan 02 23:10:09 <zsoc> rwhitby: no, i'm keeping them all to myself
Jan 02 23:10:23 <Jack87-WebIRC> acydlord: id it did then we should be in luck :)
Jan 02 23:10:28 <bitshifter_wirc> Jack87-WecIRC: full swipe swaps cards for me in doom
Jan 02 23:10:32 <rwhitby> zsoc: how much are you charging?
Jan 02 23:10:32 <swisstomcat> so, how do i help?
Jan 02 23:10:39 <zsoc> rwhitby: you really thought i was kidding when i said i typed 'make' ?
Jan 02 23:10:47 <Mark_M> Hey rwhitby and zsoc, Great job on Doom!!!!
Jan 02 23:10:50 <zsoc> rwhitby: the only thing 'breakthrough' i did was realize when you ran an sdl app, it worked :P
Jan 02 23:10:57 <dtzWill> ooooo quake recognizes both forward and backwards gesture (thanks zsoc for the idea)
Jan 02 23:11:01 <dtzWill> so we can bind them :D
Jan 02 23:11:10 <rwhitby> zsoc: no, but you have two different binaries in play, so a source file has changed somewhere.
Jan 02 23:11:26 <Mark_M> I guess we have to thank Palm for including the SDL
Jan 02 23:11:34 <rwhitby> zsoc: e.g. for the keybindings one you send to Jack87-WebIRC
Jan 02 23:11:35 <zsoc> rwhitby: actually no, i changed SDL headers
Jan 02 23:11:47 <dtzWill> bah i haev to disable optmizations to get quake to work completely; which drops the fps abuot 30%
Jan 02 23:11:50 <dtzWill> :(
Jan 02 23:11:53 <rwhitby> zsoc: right - those are the diffs I'm talking about
Jan 02 23:11:54 <zsoc> rwhitby: the one i sent to him, was me _removing_ key bindings, so .doomrc would work
Jan 02 23:12:02 <Mark_M> Has anyone played with the EXIF data in JPEGs?
Jan 02 23:12:03 <Jack87-WebIRC> acydlord: i was mistaken bitshifter_wirc is right it odes actually swipe cards :(
Jan 02 23:12:06 <zsoc> rwhitby: so the one he has, is an unpatched sdldoom
Jan 02 23:12:33 <rwhitby> zsoc: ok, can you send the sdl header diffs then please?
Jan 02 23:12:37 <zsoc> dtzWill: damn skippy we can. now look in 'mouse' for turnleft and turnright
Jan 02 23:12:43 <zsoc> rwhitby: i don't understand. There aren't any.
Jan 02 23:12:44 <swisstomcat> mark_m: also ask in #webos
Jan 02 23:12:50 <acydlord> Jack87-WebIRC, sad hat.
Jan 02 23:12:57 <Mark_M> swisstomcat thanks
Jan 02 23:12:59 <nfoxTc> hmm how are you guys going to handle looking up and down in quake?
Jan 02 23:12:59 <zsoc> dtzWill: er, webos sdl uses 'mouse' as touchscreen.
Jan 02 23:13:05 <nfoxTc> or any other fps
Jan 02 23:13:11 <zsoc> nfoxTc: gotta be touchscreen look
Jan 02 23:13:11 <dtzWill> zsoc: i'm not sure if sdlquake is recognizing the touchscreen
Jan 02 23:13:15 <zsoc> dtzWill: it does
Jan 02 23:13:23 <zsoc> dtzWill: if it recognizes a mouse, it recognizes the ts
Jan 02 23:13:24 <rwhitby> zsoc: 09:41 zsoc: rwhitby: actually no, i changed SDL headers
Jan 02 23:13:26 <dtzWill> zsoc: did you do something for doom to recognize, say, taps?
Jan 02 23:13:26 <nfoxTc> ah ok, not bad
Jan 02 23:13:26 <acydlord> yeah, a tap on the screen is mouse1
Jan 02 23:13:28 <Mark_M> Yeah, it looks like everyone is too engrossed in Doom and Quake
Jan 02 23:13:57 <zsoc> rwhitby: Ok. I originally changed headers to bind keys, before I realized how .doomrc worked. Changing those headers broke .doomrc, so I changed them back (ie: unchanged them) to fix the .doomrc settings functioning
Jan 02 23:14:00 <nfoxTc> ooo so you can drag to look around? and tap is a click
Jan 02 23:14:03 <Mark_M> Next will be guiding with the acceleramoter
Jan 02 23:14:18 <rwhitby> zsoc: there is one binary in Preware, and a different binary in Jack87-WebIRC's hands.  That means there is a change somewhere.  I'm looking for the change which matches what we released.
Jan 02 23:14:21 <zsoc> dtzWill: a "tap" is mouse click 0
Jan 02 23:14:31 <ali1> from what i saw in the SDL, accelerometer is the joystick
Jan 02 23:14:31 <zsoc> rwhitby: oh.
Jan 02 23:14:36 <Jack87-WebIRC> if we can scroll on browser we should be able to control look on quake right?
Jan 02 23:14:43 <Jack87-WebIRC> browser scrolls up down left right!
Jan 02 23:14:45 <zsoc> rwhitby: er, 1 second.. i don't think i have the old header.
Jan 02 23:14:46 <Jack87-WebIRC> same with picture apps
Jan 02 23:14:58 <synnine> I want to smash my pre into bits
Jan 02 23:15:06 <zsoc> rwhitby: well if you're using 'standard' headers, youd have a match to what Jack87 has
Jan 02 23:15:09 <rwhitby> zsoc: please don't tell me we released a binary for which we no longer have source ...
Jan 02 23:15:25 <zsoc> rwhitby: hold on i have it somewhere
Jan 02 23:15:29 <rwhitby> thx
Jan 02 23:15:35 <zsoc> rwhitby: but it's useless, but ok
Jan 02 23:15:50 <zsoc> rwhitby: it was /usr/include/sdl/SDL_keysym.h
Jan 02 23:15:55 <rwhitby> it may be useless, but it's what's in the binary that everyone is using ....
Jan 02 23:16:55 <egaudet> http://webos.pastebin.com/m5664d492
Jan 02 23:17:05 <synnine> what's a good channel to get help with the pdf vier patches?
Jan 02 23:19:00 <acydlord> hmm, i'm thinking about creating a webos subreddit on reddit
Jan 02 23:19:26 <synnine> shit not even an answer for that?  fuck it, time to go beat off to some porn.
Jan 02 23:19:43 <egaudet> bpadalino, destinal , any other ideas?
Jan 02 23:20:05 <destinal> egaudet: I'm getting to where you are now
Jan 02 23:20:14 <ihateyourband> synnine: The pdf extractor is to extract the program, not pdf's as far as I know
Jan 02 23:20:21 <dtzWill> aw no optware valgrind :)
Jan 02 23:21:28 <ali1> man i wish i can look into palm's media demuxers to see what the hell they're doing
Jan 02 23:21:35 <destinal> egaudet bpadalino: http://webos.pastebin.com/m260581f1
Jan 02 23:21:47 <zsoc> rwhitby: http://www.pastebin.ca/1735571
Jan 02 23:21:57 <destinal> egaudet bpadalino: lots of Piranha related problems
Jan 02 23:22:07 <egaudet> the only header you need for opengles is EGL/egl.h
Jan 02 23:22:17 <bpadalino> whee
Jan 02 23:23:17 <egaudet> GLES/gl.h can be empty and GLES/egl.h just include EGL/egl.h
Jan 02 23:23:36 <bpadalino> destinal, so are those all the functions i defined in the PContext.h header ?
Jan 02 23:24:40 <zsoc> ali1: it's just standard TI GST stuff with dsp bridge access tossed in
Jan 02 23:24:51 <zsoc> ali1: 'presumably'
Jan 02 23:25:58 <rwhitby> zsoc: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=games/sdldoom.git;a=commit;h=e135de26d7bc54a6997926fd48b004d33736c924
Jan 02 23:26:14 <zsoc> rwhitby: oh how fancy of you :P
Jan 02 23:26:37 <rwhitby> zsoc: just making sure our binaries are reproducible
Jan 02 23:26:56 <zsoc> rwhitby: its sort of a silly hack. but the keybindings _and_ the menu directions work ;)
Jan 02 23:30:17 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: so in your hack the ascii values change? but menu works?
Jan 02 23:30:47 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: that's because I told SDL that the 'up,down,left,and right' keys were ascii 'h,g,y,b'
Jan 02 23:30:55 <zsoc> in other words, i didn't map them, i changed their key binding
Jan 02 23:31:14 <zsoc> as in, when you press h,g,y,b you are also pressing up,down,left,right
Jan 02 23:31:46 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: oh... and in the doomrc file they are not actually up down left right
Jan 02 23:31:55 <feyesh> Hi
Jan 02 23:32:13 <dtzWill> zsoc: i wrote a simple patch that reverses the video for sdldoom
Jan 02 23:32:21 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: they are, but they aren't
Jan 02 23:32:25 <dtzWill> since it made sense to me and perhaps others; does that sound useful?
Jan 02 23:32:31 <zsoc> dtzWill: ... like makes it go backwards?
Jan 02 23:32:36 <zsoc> dtzWill: oh, upsidown
Jan 02 23:32:37 <dtzWill> rotates 180
Jan 02 23:32:41 <dtzWill> sorry
Jan 02 23:32:45 <zsoc> dtzWill: yes, multiple people wanted that
Jan 02 23:32:47 <bpadalino> destinal: i am pretty confused about this whole thing .. :(
Jan 02 23:33:25 <bpadalino> i think PValue is a superclass of PFixed .. and PFixed is what everything uses for real ?
Jan 02 23:33:43 <dtzWill> zsoc: okay b/c what you're doing sounds update-worthy shortly and might me nice to merge them
Jan 02 23:33:50 <dtzWill> also would change what kind of keybindings make sense :)
Jan 02 23:34:03 <Jack87-WebIRC> hum zsoc i think you will need to set up launcher with options for these games or rwhitby can since he has been doing the launcher.. so the option for left/right hand and custom key bindings
Jan 02 23:34:21 <zsoc> dtzWill: we can't left strafeleft or back to work
Jan 02 23:34:38 <rwhitby> Jack87-WebIRC: rick_home is working on the launcher app
Jan 02 23:34:48 <zsoc> dtzWill: strafeleft always goes turbo straferight, doesn't matter what binding we use. wahots thinks it's a bug in webos sdl
Jan 02 23:35:01 <rwhitby> but we need to work out how to pass through options to the upstart script
Jan 02 23:35:04 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby thanks... rick_home did you get that ;)
Jan 02 23:35:23 <dtzWill> zsoc: didn't wahots also say he fixed this bug?
Jan 02 23:35:42 <zsoc> dtzWill: not while i was around. it was going to have to be a binary patch unless he came up with an sdldoom src patch
Jan 02 23:35:56 <zsoc> dtzWill: i think he said he had fixed similar key scanning issues before
Jan 02 23:36:22 <dtzWill> zsoc: ah i might have misunderstood
Jan 02 23:36:35 <dtzWill> zsoc: in fact i probably did :0
Jan 02 23:36:36 <dtzWill> *:)
Jan 02 23:36:44 <zsoc> xD
Jan 02 23:36:46 <zsoc> as oil says
Jan 02 23:37:24 * rwhitby bbl - zsoc, dtzWill: you guys are the app owners, so update as you see fit :-)
Jan 02 23:37:48 <zsoc> that involved fixing things... heh
Jan 02 23:38:16 <ird> rwhitby: a friend of mine showed up while I was playing the pod cast.
Jan 02 23:38:24 <ird> rwhitby: He said your accent was... desirable..
Jan 02 23:38:41 <Abyssul> lol wtF?
Jan 02 23:39:16 <zsoc> I agree.
Jan 02 23:39:29 <feyesh> has anyone had issues with 1.3.5 update?
Jan 02 23:39:54 <zsoc> feyesh: if you didn't read docs about how to be migration ready, then everyone _should_ have issues
Jan 02 23:40:24 <ird> I just thought it was kind of funny.
Jan 02 23:40:35 <ird> I'm not attracted to men btw.
Jan 02 23:40:47 <zsoc> ird: I couldn't be in the same room as rod and tim
Jan 02 23:40:57 <zsoc> ird: that's probably unnecessary info
Jan 02 23:41:05 <ird> Why?
Jan 02 23:41:17 <ird> I didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.
Jan 02 23:41:30 <zsoc> ird: what's the difference? no one's having ideas :P
Jan 02 23:42:09 <ird> This is why I shouldn't come here when I'm... tired.
Jan 02 23:42:40 <zsoc> ird: lol no i get it man, i've said many ridiculous things... 'tired'.
Jan 02 23:45:35 <ird> zsoc: :)
Jan 02 23:45:51 <ird> left handed cigarettes and whatnot.
Jan 02 23:45:57 <zsoc> in fact, i'm going to go get tired right now
Jan 02 23:46:11 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: back gesture is esc on quake as well
Jan 02 23:46:40 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: on mine it does 'AUX24" and "AUX25" or something for forward back (don't remember the numbers)
Jan 02 23:47:29 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: i am on the demo screen it keeps bring up the menu. and when i enter single player doing it goes back to main menu
Jan 02 23:47:38 <dBsooner> rwhitby: ping
Jan 02 23:47:45 <acydlord> well im off for awhile, gotta try to shave 4 seconds off my lap time in gran turismo 5
Jan 02 23:47:49 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: nice
Jan 02 23:48:27 <Jack87-WebIRC> what tools can i use to figure out the output of keys
Jan 02 23:49:01 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: the sdl test utility testkeys comes to mind
Jan 02 23:49:28 <freakout> blehc
Jan 02 23:49:28 * zsoc wonders if he could hack the lock/unlock/power key as a 'trigger' button
Jan 02 23:49:51 <zsoc> freakout: what? I was talking about you earlier
Jan 02 23:50:01 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: during the demo back gesture pops up aux25 is unbound, hit f4 to set
Jan 02 23:50:03 <Jack87-WebIRC> :)
Jan 02 23:50:10 <freakout> zsoc: my ears were burning
Jan 02 23:50:23 <freakout> Do you really think the Pre's power button could withstand being a trigger?
Jan 02 23:50:40 <zsoc> freakout: no, but i want to do it anyway :P
Jan 02 23:50:43 <freakout> what I really want is a way to flip the screen orientation...
Jan 02 23:50:44 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: can you hack the accele as a mouse?
Jan 02 23:50:50 <zsoc> freakout: dtzWill already did it
Jan 02 23:50:55 <freakout> aha!
Jan 02 23:50:57 <freakout> cool.
Jan 02 23:51:01 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: it's a joystick, and it's already hacked
Jan 02 23:51:08 <freakout> dtzWill: I posted about your work on Palm Infocenter, btw
Jan 02 23:51:13 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: nice :) hehe
Jan 02 23:51:24 <freakout> Now all I need is webOS 1.3.5 so I can play with all this myself :)
Jan 02 23:51:27 <Jack87-WebIRC> maybe that can be used for viewing!
Jan 02 23:51:34 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: mouse=touchscreen, joystick=accelerometer
Jan 02 23:51:47 <zsoc> freakout: ah, that's why you're grumpy ;)
Jan 02 23:52:09 <freakout> dtzWill: so obviously you can flip it so the keyboard is on the left, but can you flip the orientation into portrait as well?
Jan 02 23:52:47 <zsoc> freakout: webos-sdl forces resolution scaling
Jan 02 23:52:55 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: updated sdlquake http://wdtz.org/files/sdlquake
Jan 02 23:52:56 <destinal> these test programs are pretty cool though
Jan 02 23:53:00 <dtzWill> enjoy
Jan 02 23:53:02 <zsoc> freakout: with a binary patch to libsdl.so we could do it
Jan 02 23:53:11 <dtzWill> no more crashing, etc, and touchpad works if it is warpy as heck
Jan 02 23:53:24 <zsoc> destinal: they are _super_ cool, testmouse is my favorite
Jan 02 23:53:28 <zsoc> and sprite is funny
Jan 02 23:53:39 <destinal> heh, 5 mice, yup
Jan 02 23:54:17 <destinal> hmm, testlock crashed luna but kept running
Jan 02 23:54:30 <zsoc> the fact that testcdrom is even there is funny
Jan 02 23:55:11 <dtzWill> although fps is down from 9 or so to 6 on mine
Jan 02 23:55:13 <dtzWill> :(
Jan 02 23:55:20 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: this is awsome worked like a charm just replaced the quake file in the package rwhitby had created and runs off launcher
Jan 02 23:55:32 <ird> zsoc: what are these test apps?
Jan 02 23:56:04 <zsoc> ird: download/extract sdl 1.2 source. apply palm sdl patch (opensource.palm.com) and config/install what's in the /test folder
Jan 02 23:56:10 <Jack87-WebIRC> enter is jump
Jan 02 23:56:11 <Jack87-WebIRC> lol
Jan 02 23:56:19 <zsoc> cross compile of course, and run on the pre
Jan 02 23:56:23 <Jack87-WebIRC> a looks up
Jan 02 23:56:39 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: it's gotta be slow as heck with no gles no?
Jan 02 23:56:51 <ird> wow I totally have no idea how to cross compile :p
Jan 02 23:56:53 <ird> seriously.
Jan 02 23:57:07 <ird> Google here I come...
Jan 02 23:57:08 <zsoc> ird: yeah, i swear it took me 3 weeks to even comprehend it.
Jan 02 23:57:20 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: ya much laggier then the demo
Jan 02 23:57:21 <ird> I mean, I know what it is..
Jan 02 23:57:24 <ird> Just how to do it.
Jan 02 23:57:43 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC, zsoc: the crash before was a compiler related issue
Jan 02 23:57:43 <zsoc> ird: now I have 3 userlands tho :) Albeit I don't have the best option... which is the codesorcery stuff
Jan 02 23:57:46 <dtzWill> that i'm looking into it now
Jan 02 23:57:49 <zsoc> dtzWill: interesting
Jan 02 23:58:01 <dtzWill> i mean 10fps or so is terrible and gles would reaalyyy help
Jan 02 23:58:08 <dtzWill> but 6fps is so much worse
Jan 02 23:58:15 <zsoc> lol
Jan 02 23:58:22 <dtzWill> i mean almost half the fps :(
Jan 02 23:58:25 <zsoc> dtzWill: well the gles guys are chugging away...
Jan 02 23:58:29 <Jack87-WebIRC> touch scree does forward back going up and down look right and left.. but fires whole time finger is on screen
Jan 02 23:58:30 <dtzWill> yep :)
Jan 02 23:58:41 <Jack87-WebIRC> i wonder if tapping gesture has a key value
Jan 02 23:58:42 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: yeah that seemed to be my experience
Jan 02 23:58:52 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: that's ok, we'll remove the map for mouse button 1
Jan 02 23:58:55 <dtzWill> the maemo port did something to make the touchscreen work better i might look at that
Jan 02 23:59:04 <ird> zsoc: couldn't I just compile it on the pre?
Jan 02 23:59:13 <bpadalino> too sloooow
Jan 02 23:59:16 <zsoc> ird: that's the "quickest" option, yes, native compilation
Jan 02 23:59:20 <zsoc> bpadalino: it's not back for most things
Jan 02 23:59:27 <ird> It probably wouldn't be any slower than my pc.
Jan 02 23:59:31 <zsoc> ird: it's just bad for a lot of reasons.
Jan 02 23:59:34 <ird> I've seen faster netbooks these days.
Jan 02 23:59:40 <nfoxTc> hey it possible to save in doom?
Jan 02 23:59:52 <zsoc> ird: but yes, one of the userlands I use often is debian chroot
Jan 02 23:59:57 <zsoc> nfoxTc: sure, do it all the time
Jan 03 00:00:08 <zsoc> ird: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian
Jan 03 00:00:12 <nfoxTc> how?
Jan 03 00:00:24 <ird> zsoc: I found the kernel wiki page.
Jan 03 00:00:33 <ird> It has cross compilation instructions.
Jan 03 00:00:44 <zsoc> nfoxTc: back gesture to esc/menu, and then 'save'?
Jan 03 00:00:44 <Jack87-WebIRC> if i lightly swipe on screen moves... without fire intresting
Jan 03 00:01:02 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: there's a fake 'pressure sensitivity
Jan 03 00:01:15 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: i think it's based on how 'big' the touch area being used is
Jan 03 00:01:23 <zsoc> it's in the sdl port patch
Jan 03 00:01:27 <zsoc> ird: what page?
Jan 03 00:02:08 <ird> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Custom_Kernels#Download_and_install_the_cross-compiler
Jan 03 00:02:49 <nfoxTc> ah thanks zsoc
Jan 03 00:02:51 <Jack87-WebIRC> if turned revers... maybe volume key can become fire and second fire
Jan 03 00:02:55 <Jack87-WebIRC> mouse one and two
Jan 03 00:03:10 <nfoxTc> didn't know I could back gesture on doom :p
Jan 03 00:03:35 <Jack87-WebIRC> so keyboard in left hand for finger can control fire while touching screen can act as a mouse in joystick motion
Jan 03 00:04:04 <Jack87-WebIRC> placing finger top right hand corder i that makes sens
Jan 03 00:04:22 <zsoc> nfoxTc: turns out gesture pad passes regular ascii values
Jan 03 00:04:37 <zsoc> "back" is the little c with the squiggly below it :>
Jan 03 00:04:52 <zsoc> er, no, back is esc,, the squiggly c was something else
Jan 03 00:04:53 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: when you get a chance see if volume buttons do anything
Jan 03 00:05:16 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: using those for a game is a terrible idea
Jan 03 00:05:36 <zsoc> lets use the mute toggle switch to reload ;)
Jan 03 00:05:45 <Jack87-WebIRC> haha
Jan 03 00:06:22 <nfoxTc> hmm never would have thought that
Jan 03 00:06:26 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: terrible idea why? i guess they are kind of hard to push but not too bad if you got used to it
Jan 03 00:06:40 <Jack87-WebIRC> its like triger buttons on a consol controler
Jan 03 00:06:42 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: they aren't made to be pressed 2835239482 times
Jan 03 00:06:53 <zsoc> plus then you can't change the volume if we somehow steal their luna hook :P
Jan 03 00:07:43 <Jack87-WebIRC> haha they would be so fun though
Jan 03 00:08:23 <zsoc> hmm... resize2fs breaks my phone.
Jan 03 00:08:26 <zsoc> and yet i keep using it
Jan 03 00:08:54 <Jack87-WebIRC> , and / are starfeleft right
Jan 03 00:09:36 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: for quake??
Jan 03 00:10:06 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: ya.. the key bindings are pretty straight forward on the config file
Jan 03 00:10:17 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: not sure how to control menu though
Jan 03 00:10:30 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: the arrow keys ;)
Jan 03 00:10:38 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: oh of course
Jan 03 00:12:37 <destinal-nirc> ugh,pc issues
Jan 03 00:12:46 <bpadalino> uh oh .. sounds bad
Jan 03 00:12:51 <ird> Who does the Preware webpage?
Jan 03 00:13:14 <ird> They should put in the faq "Why is the FAQ empty?"
Jan 03 00:13:14 <gkatsev> ird: Templarian and rwhitby
Jan 03 00:13:14 <ird> :D
Jan 03 00:13:22 <cashen> Templarian: Ping
Jan 03 00:13:27 <ird> I thought it was him.
Jan 03 00:13:28 <destinal-nirc> bpadalino: master boot record fubar
Jan 03 00:13:33 <bpadalino> ouch
Jan 03 00:13:55 <Templarian> :(
Jan 03 00:14:54 <cashen> Templarian: DId you complete the image for the swag?
Jan 03 00:14:58 <Jack87-WebIRC> changing the config file doesnt actualyl change it in the game it self
Jan 03 00:15:05 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: o_O
Jan 03 00:15:32 <Templarian> cashen: what's the image for swag?
Jan 03 00:15:37 <Jack87-WebIRC> the config file is a good guide to know whats what but sure not playable lol
Jan 03 00:16:02 * Templarian really should write down all these things he's suppose to be designing up.
Jan 03 00:16:24 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: do enough keys work that if we changed them it would be playable
Jan 03 00:16:27 <Templarian> I know I'm suppose to be designing up a large tux in a lab coat. Was that it?
Jan 03 00:16:27 <dtzWill> ?
Jan 03 00:16:46 <cashen> could be
Jan 03 00:17:06 <cashen> How is it coming?
Jan 03 00:17:35 <oil> Templarian: riding a unirocn
Jan 03 00:17:47 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: yes we can make it playable for sure
Jan 03 00:18:03 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: good good, so doesn't sound like an sdl bug....
Jan 03 00:18:08 <dtzWill> maybe?
Jan 03 00:18:09 <Jack87-WebIRC> so i figured out what happens when i change the keys.. everytime i run the game it overwrites my changees
Jan 03 00:18:26 <Jack87-WebIRC> the file goes back to default
Jan 03 00:18:27 <dtzWill> oh that's curious
Jan 03 00:18:34 <zsoc> Templarian: can my stuff say "webOS hacker extraordinaire" -Engaget.com on it? ;)
Jan 03 00:18:56 <dtzWill> where are you changing it?
Jan 03 00:18:56 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: i think it unpacks the pak file each time
Jan 03 00:19:01 <dtzWill> try putting your changes in autoexec.cfg
Jan 03 00:19:03 <Jack87-WebIRC> config.cfg
Jan 03 00:19:04 <dtzWill> not config.cfg
Jan 03 00:19:13 <Jack87-WebIRC> oh ok
Jan 03 00:19:37 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: where is autoexec.cfg. is it in the back?
Jan 03 00:20:06 <Jack87-WebIRC> pak*
Jan 03 00:20:32 <dtzWill> no, just put it in id1/, so id1/autoexec.cfg
Jan 03 00:20:37 <cashen> zsoc: due to costs, all the stickers will be the same :(
Jan 03 00:20:54 <zsoc> cashen: ah, no, I was making a jest :) no apologies, swag is a great thing
Jan 03 00:22:29 <cashen> I can't wait to have it on my car and have someone notice it
Jan 03 00:23:05 <cashen> I'mg going to send a couple to Jon now that he is geek of the year
Jan 03 00:25:09 <zsoc> cashen: i wonder if his palm has preware on it
Jan 03 00:25:11 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: no luck
Jan 03 00:25:35 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: i dont know if its exectuying it
Jan 03 00:26:40 <dtzWill> bummer
Jan 03 00:27:55 <Jack87-WebIRC> if we could open console we could bind keys
Jan 03 00:28:08 <Jack87-WebIRC> but i dunno if there is a way to do ` on the pre
Jan 03 00:29:02 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: he could edit the SDL_keysym.h header and recompile it ;)
Jan 03 00:29:06 <dtzWill> i thuoght it was tilde, but that doesn't work either
Jan 03 00:29:25 <Jack87-WebIRC> `~ same key
Jan 03 00:29:31 <Jack87-WebIRC> ~=shit
Jan 03 00:29:46 <freakout> zsoc: the "gles guys are chugging away"?
Jan 03 00:29:47 <Jack87-WebIRC> can we run it in the emulator?
Jan 03 00:29:48 <zsoc> shiFt you mean?
Jan 03 00:29:59 <zsoc> freakout: I don't think I said that. But it sounds like me
Jan 03 00:30:02 <Jack87-WebIRC> lol yes shift
Jan 03 00:30:13 <zsoc> freakout: there are like 3 geniuses here trying to get a userland to compile compatible opengl es stuff
Jan 03 00:30:33 * oil scratches the "f" off his shift key
Jan 03 00:30:40 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 00:30:40 <Jack87-WebIRC> someone have 1.3.5 emulator they can try to test this on
Jan 03 00:30:48 <Jack87-WebIRC> lol oil@
Jan 03 00:30:51 <freakout> I always thought of the Windows key as my "shit" key
Jan 03 00:31:09 <frozenbinary> i am so pumped about openGL!!!
Jan 03 00:31:12 <freakout> as in "SHIT, I pressed it and now I've been kicked back to the desktop in the middle of a fragging spree"
Jan 03 00:31:53 <zsoc> Why is novacom file transfer 3 times faster than drag and drop usb?
Jan 03 00:32:05 <Jack87-WebIRC> dtzWill: think arrow keys will work on the emulator? perhaps can bind keys within that and package up the file after
Jan 03 00:32:17 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: haha no idea i hardly use the emulator
Jan 03 00:32:31 <dtzWill> Jack87-WebIRC: I would imagine /not/? but i don't have any good idea to back that up with
Jan 03 00:32:32 <Jack87-WebIRC> rwhitby: you are our emulator expert.
Jan 03 00:32:51 <zsoc> he can recompile against altered sdl keysym headers...
Jan 03 00:33:06 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: do it
Jan 03 00:33:15 <Jack87-WebIRC> atleast give us a ` key :)
Jan 03 00:33:17 <zsoc> i can't. he has everything patched and what not.
Jan 03 00:34:03 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: so he just changes 96 to a different key
Jan 03 00:35:33 <Jack87-WebIRC> zsoc: what do you mean
Jan 03 00:35:47 <Jack87-WebIRC> my pre is restarting luna now.. it was just sitting there wt
Jan 03 00:35:53 <Jack87-WebIRC> eh oh it powered off
Jan 03 00:35:58 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: that's pretty common with the crap we're doing lol
Jan 03 00:35:58 <Jack87-WebIRC> did i kill it who knows
Jan 03 00:36:10 <zsoc> Jack87-WebIRC: this is why some have 'developer' devices :D
Jan 03 00:37:09 <bpadalino> i still don't understand what is defined in libSDL and what is in libPiranha
Jan 03 00:37:10 <zsoc> dtzWill: if you don't mind, and you have a second, you can back up /usr/include/SDL/SDL_keysym.h , make a copy, and change the value of '96' to a different ascii value from an accessable key. that would give Jack access to conosole
Jan 03 00:37:25 <bpadalino> the W part in libSDL is confusing to me
Jan 03 00:37:32 <zsoc> bpadalino: me neither. I can't find any useful docs on piranha
Jan 03 00:37:44 <bpadalino> there will be no docs on piranha since it's all internal to palm
Jan 03 00:37:57 <zsoc> bpadalino: ooooooh. did we shoot them an email yet?
Jan 03 00:38:00 <bpadalino> its mainly that 'W' from nm on that CreatePixmap ..
Jan 03 00:38:09 <bpadalino> not sure, usually destinal pesters them about Piranha :)
Jan 03 00:38:21 <destinal> heh
Jan 03 00:38:26 <destinal> I think they hate me
Jan 03 00:38:26 <zsoc> bpadalino: how do i repeat the command to get the information that confuses you?
Jan 03 00:38:37 <zsoc> destinal: they hate me too, but i'm super nice so they are super nice back ;)
Jan 03 00:38:49 <bpadalino> nm libSDL.so | c\+\+filt | grep CreatePixmap
Jan 03 00:38:49 <Jack87> zsoc: should i be able to do that on my phone (iif it ever boots up)
Jan 03 00:38:53 <zsoc> rick_home: go get us piranha header. they _sort_ of have to give it to us anyway...
Jan 03 00:39:03 <bpadalino> i don't understand what a weak symbol is .
Jan 03 00:39:07 <bpadalino> or how we figure out where it goes
Jan 03 00:39:09 <zsoc> Jack87: no, it needs to be done in the development library you compile against
Jan 03 00:39:20 <Jack87> zsoc: roger that
Jan 03 00:40:26 <tmzt> get resolved at link time
Jan 03 00:40:35 <tmzt> but is also in the so
Jan 03 00:40:39 <tmzt> so it can be replaced
Jan 03 00:40:45 <tmzt> I think so at least
Jan 03 00:41:01 <zsoc> bpadalino: isn't the whole purpose of a weak symbol is it doesn't _need_ to be defined?
Jan 03 00:41:11 <bpadalino> i have no idea
Jan 03 00:41:16 <bpadalino> this is a capital W ..
Jan 03 00:41:47 <bpadalino> the system defines the whole thing ?
Jan 03 00:41:49 <zsoc> bpadalino: yeah, that's a weak symbol. it shouldn't affect much if that's the only problem
Jan 03 00:41:52 <bpadalino> just confuses the crap out of me
Jan 03 00:41:53 <egaudet> If it's not defined in any lib other than SDL, then maybe it's an inline or something directly in PContext.h
Jan 03 00:41:57 <zsoc> if you don't define it, it becomes 0 with no error
Jan 03 00:42:22 <egaudet> It needs to be defined as the code calls it
Jan 03 00:42:40 <Jack87> would changing write permitions help the config.cfg from reverting back
Jan 03 00:43:23 <Jack87> i might need to doctor my phone wont go past palm screen shit havent backed up
Jan 03 00:43:39 <bpadalino> destinal: so if you nm on your libSDL .. do those functions come up as W's ?
Jan 03 00:44:01 <jacques> I think a weak symbol is link-time variable
Jan 03 00:44:04 <zsoc> Jack87: pull battery, unplug from power source, put battery in, wait
Jan 03 00:44:17 <zsoc> Jack87: some times when you crash with sdl stuff it needs a second boot for luna to load
Jan 03 00:44:22 <jacques> (dynamic link-time)
Jan 03 00:44:53 <Jack87> i dont think i was running quake at the time of crash. hum... anyway i guess this gives me an excuse to go eat
Jan 03 00:45:36 <zsoc> lol yes
Jan 03 00:45:46 <lingfish> Mornin'.
Jan 03 00:46:11 <zsoc> yoyoyoyo
Jan 03 00:46:19 <lingfish> zsoc: nice work on DOOM :)
Jan 03 00:46:31 <zsoc> lingfish: yes yes, my famous 'make'
Jan 03 00:46:42 <jacques> hmm, in my googling for weak symbol I see a lot of "behavior is not defined by spec" and "implementation dependent"
Jan 03 00:46:54 <lingfish> zsoc: I'm surprised ... not having dug more, I'd have thought it'd need an xbuild etc...
Jan 03 00:47:05 <lingfish> I thought Pre's could only currently run JS stuff
Jan 03 00:47:23 <lingfish> Is it literally just a linux ARM binary?
Jan 03 00:47:38 <zsoc> lingfish: there's a lot of things that need porting, but we got lucky with doom, it didn't butt heads with any of palms sdl patch changes
Jan 03 00:47:41 <destinal> lingfish: Native app support is new in 1.3.5
Jan 03 00:47:49 <egaudet> bpadalino, I tried __attribute__((weak))
Jan 03 00:47:52 <egaudet> seg fault
Jan 03 00:48:01 <Jack87> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=10064
Jan 03 00:48:06 <lingfish> destinal: meaning what exactly.. native Linux ELF or what?
Jan 03 00:48:31 <destinal> lingfish: well, you could always run native linux binaries, but now we have an SDL library that cooperates with Luna
Jan 03 00:48:51 <lingfish> destinal: any API doco on it yet?
Jan 03 00:48:52 <lingfish> :)
Jan 03 00:48:54 <destinal> so we can do graphics stuff, it just launches, makes SDL calls to create a surface, Luna finds out and opens a card
Jan 03 00:49:13 <zsoc> well, sort of like that ;)
Jan 03 00:49:19 <egaudet> bpadalino, so I don't get undefined symbol anymore now that I made it weak but I seg fault, don't know if it's related
Jan 03 00:49:22 <zsoc> we're not entirely sure about the whole thing. it just works
Jan 03 00:49:28 <lingfish> hmmm.
Jan 03 00:49:36 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 03 00:49:43 <zsoc> lingfish: you should have seen my face when i ran my first sdl test app
Jan 03 00:49:48 <lingfish> O2 still haven't done anything.
Jan 03 00:50:03 <lingfish> zsoc: hahahaha, yes... bust a few muscles grinning to hard? :)
Jan 03 00:50:34 <lingfish> I just hope and pray now that Palm go the rest of the way soon with another update, and use the GPU all through Luna et al.
Jan 03 00:50:40 <sepi> hi. so I just updated to 1.3.5 and forgot to migrate some preware apps. is the data of those apps now gone?
Jan 03 00:50:46 <lingfish> It still shits me a little that the iCrap scrolls and whatnot super-smooth
Jan 03 00:50:55 <bpadalino> egaudet: if you strace when you run, does it show an invalid pointer access or something ?
Jan 03 00:51:21 <zsoc> lingfish: it was just an app that used sdl-image to display a bit map on screen. i thought it was just 'overlay'ing luna. then i pressure the gesture button and it zoomed out in a card. there's a log here somewhere. my capslock was definitely stuck
Jan 03 00:51:49 <lingfish> heheheh
Jan 03 00:52:10 <lingfish> Simple DirectMedia Layer.
Jan 03 00:52:20 <zsoc> simple indeed lol
Jan 03 00:52:59 <destinal> brb, still fighting with my computer
Jan 03 00:53:01 <sepi> does anyone know if the data saved by homebrewn apps is backupped to the palm servers too?
Jan 03 00:53:11 <lingfish> sepi: highly doubt it
Jan 03 00:53:14 <egaudet> do i just strace doom it?
Jan 03 00:53:16 <zsoc> most definitely not
Jan 03 00:53:35 <sepi> lingfish: so it's gone I guess ... :(
Jan 03 00:53:38 <lingfish> egaudet: good practice is a -f too... follow fork()'s, if the code has any
Jan 03 00:54:02 <lingfish> sepi: I'm not 100% sure, but last I heard, cloud backups were only builtin Pre stuff.
Jan 03 00:54:15 <zsoc> sepi: it might still be in your /var/ somewhere
Jan 03 00:54:24 <sepi> ahh, I'll have a look then
Jan 03 00:54:31 <zsoc> sepi: not sure how app data works, a cookie or database file
Jan 03 00:54:34 <Jack87> what would sdlquake-reset
Jan 03 00:54:39 <Jack87> do
Jan 03 00:54:47 <zsoc> Jack87: reset .... something?
Jan 03 00:55:17 <Jack87> can i run consol command swhile in ssh i wonder
Jan 03 00:55:34 <sepi> zsoc: Yeah, me neither
Jan 03 00:55:39 <sepi> normally it just works :)
Jan 03 00:55:52 <zsoc> sepi: #webos might be more the place
Jan 03 00:57:01 <sepi> hmm, I thaught that one was more for mojo programming
Jan 03 00:57:34 <rwhitby> dBsooner: syn|ack
Jan 03 00:58:01 <dBsooner> rwhitby: Have you heard reports of any of the patches causing the Touchstone not to work?
Jan 03 00:58:07 <lingfish> I've still gotta work out my Calendar hacks for Facebook
Jan 03 00:58:22 <rwhitby> dBsooner: nope, touchstone failures are common enough that you don't need patches to do it
Jan 03 00:58:37 <dBsooner> rwhitby: I had a bunch of them installed and I lost touchstone charging
Jan 03 00:58:42 <rwhitby> freakout: no quake article?
Jan 03 00:58:43 <dBsooner> it flat out didn't register being on it.
Jan 03 00:58:58 <freakout> rwhitby: que? I think I'm the only one who's done one...
Jan 03 00:59:00 <lingfish> dBsooner: that is TRULY bizarre!
Jan 03 00:59:05 <lingfish> dBsooner: did you figure which patch it was?
Jan 03 00:59:07 <freakout> http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/10015/quake-ported-to-palm-pre/
Jan 03 00:59:08 <dBsooner> I ran EPR (which removed all patches.. yah!) and it all started working again.
Jan 03 00:59:10 <zsoc> sepi: your issue is mojo related. where is legit app data stored? :)
Jan 03 00:59:14 <rwhitby> freakout: oh, I didn't see it tweeted
Jan 03 00:59:32 <freakout> I guess precentral just don't care about you guys :p
Jan 03 00:59:32 <lingfish> freakout: HI!
Jan 03 00:59:33 <dBsooner> lingfish: Not yet.. I am re-installing what I had 5 by 5 to narrow it down
Jan 03 00:59:50 <freakout> If you like, I can fax those "PIC-exclusive-agreement" contracts over now :p
Jan 03 01:00:05 <freakout> lingfish: howdy-ho! how's the pre treating you...
Jan 03 01:00:16 <rwhitby> freakout: heh
Jan 03 01:00:21 <lingfish> freakout: dude... 99.98% happy :)  Love my toy
Jan 03 01:00:46 <lingfish> My only complaints are this annoying carrier dependancy on updates... the Oreo effect... and no GPU akshun
Jan 03 01:00:47 <dBsooner> rwhitby: Did you or someone fix the "Unknown packages' issue?
Jan 03 01:00:56 <lingfish> freakout: what about you?
Jan 03 01:01:06 <rwhitby> dBsooner: dunno
Jan 03 01:01:29 <dBsooner> rwhitby: All of a suddon I don't get 160 "fixing" anymore
Jan 03 01:01:32 <rwhitby> ird: re cross-compiling - I'm setting up something now that will be developer-friendly
Jan 03 01:01:47 <freakout> lingfish: my complaints: battery life, slow-ass PIM apps as compared to PalmOS, oreo effect. The GPU is being worked on right here at ground zero, I believe... well, if we belive zsoc at any rate. Which is a bit of a leap.
Jan 03 01:01:47 <dBsooner> you know the 160 themes not being "known"
Jan 03 01:01:50 <zsoc> dBsooner: it's the prethemer feed, ask anoutsider
Jan 03 01:01:50 <rwhitby> dBsooner: either you turned off themes, or AnOutsider fixed them
Jan 03 01:02:14 <zsoc> freakout: well we won't be able to make Luna use the gpu :P
Jan 03 01:02:14 <freakout> lingfish: oh, and no GPS nav app! God I miss TomTom
Jan 03 01:02:19 <dBsooner> I'm thjinking of turning off that feed anyway.. I wish there was a way to speed it up.
Jan 03 01:02:31 <lingfish> freakout: well yeah, I didn't even mention batt life... that's a given.  I'm hoping to god that 1.3.5 fixes it for me, as I'm on Voda and their coverage ain't too smick
Jan 03 01:02:34 <lingfish> shmick
Jan 03 01:02:36 <freakout> zsoc: Oh go on, set yourself a challenge
Jan 03 01:02:44 <lingfish> freakout: oh yeah, and no Latitude.  I miss that.
Jan 03 01:03:57 <rwhitby> zsoc: rubinstein's palm definitely has preware on it - I added a test and phone home a couple of versions ago ...
Jan 03 01:04:10 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 01:04:28 <freakout> rwhitby: so what is he installing? "sexy ladies" theme?
Jan 03 01:04:38 <zsoc> rwhitby: "a test and phone home"? Is that some oz lingo?
Jan 03 01:04:41 <chezbi> lol
Jan 03 01:04:57 <rwhitby> freakout: I cannot disclose anything about individual user preferences that Preware records ...
Jan 03 01:05:06 <freakout> Good
Jan 03 01:05:14 <lingfish> hhahahaaa
Jan 03 01:05:18 <freakout> then you won't be able to disclose I've been downloading the "sexy blokes" theme :p
Jan 03 01:05:24 <lingfish> PREWARE BIG BROTHERS US?!?!?!
Jan 03 01:05:33 <rwhitby> freakout: nope, I won't be able to disclose that fact
Jan 03 01:05:54 <lingfish> rwhitby: does Tim use the manwhore theme?
Jan 03 01:06:26 <freakout> lingfish: How uncouth. I prefer the term "escort"
Jan 03 01:06:31 <Jack87> it doesnt look like its running the autexec.cfg file like it should
Jan 03 01:07:06 <lingfish> I say we need an app that discloses all that Preware knows
Jan 03 01:07:25 <lingfish> That information should be all MIT license.
Jan 03 01:07:30 <zsoc> rwhitby: no really, i didn't understand what you said.
Jan 03 01:07:36 <rwhitby> sepi: use the emergency migration helper utility
Jan 03 01:07:37 * atlanta is here and ready to test
Jan 03 01:08:20 <lingfish> atlanta: That's nice :)
Jan 03 01:08:30 <atlanta> lingfish: indeed it is my friend
Jan 03 01:08:35 <zsoc> atlanta: well start chilling in here on the regular :P
Jan 03 01:09:02 <lingfish> freakout: oh and yeah... the annoying Touchstone issue.
Jan 03 01:09:24 <freakout> lingfish: that got you too?
Jan 03 01:09:34 <freakout> oh, christ.
Jan 03 01:09:44 <lingfish> freakout: just the 100% charing bing bing thing
Jan 03 01:09:44 <atlanta> zsoc: ok i will and i wanna learn the coding part to when i come to that point ;-)
Jan 03 01:09:57 <lingfish> Strangely fixed with the business card solution... f'ing weird
Jan 03 01:10:12 <rwhitby> lingfish: you saw my surgery photos?
Jan 03 01:10:23 <atlanta> yay can recieve vcards correctly
Jan 03 01:10:33 <freakout> "Personal mobile telephones are permitted to be used at limited times during training. As a general rule, you will be permitted to use your mobile phone each evening before or after the evening meal and on sundays between 8.00 and 10.30am."  <-- I'm gonna suffer serious Pre withdrawal
Jan 03 01:10:45 <lingfish> rwhitby: no?!?  Ah, did you retro fit something?  I was gonna do the same thing, just trace a circle and cut it out, double-back tape it to it
Jan 03 01:10:47 <sepi> rwhitby: didn't do anything :(
Jan 03 01:10:53 <zsoc> freakout: you going to jail?
Jan 03 01:10:54 <freakout> rwhitby: I saw. Shame nothing came of it
Jan 03 01:10:57 <sepi> rwhitby: I ran it before upgrading
Jan 03 01:11:02 <freakout> zsoc: close enough... boot camp
Jan 03 01:11:07 <rwhitby> sepi: before it now use
Jan 03 01:11:09 <rwhitby> no use
Jan 03 01:11:11 <zsoc> freakout: ew
Jan 03 01:11:25 <freakout> zsoc: It's better than a cell centre :)
Jan 03 01:11:28 <rwhitby> we depend on freakout to defend australia.  shocking I know.
Jan 03 01:11:35 <zsoc> ha
Jan 03 01:11:36 <lingfish> ugh
Jan 03 01:11:38 <lingfish> God help us
Jan 03 01:11:40 <zsoc> Australia has many enemies
Jan 03 01:11:45 <zsoc> i just.. can't think of any atm
Jan 03 01:11:51 <lingfish> zsoc: me, for a start.
Jan 03 01:11:54 <zsoc> well you guys have all that desert. we might want that
Jan 03 01:12:02 <rwhitby> zsoc: that's why we're ok with freakout doing the job
Jan 03 01:12:04 <freakout> There's NZ. We've been fighting a secret battle for millenia
Jan 03 01:12:04 <lingfish> Fucking backwater public transport retarded place
Jan 03 01:12:05 <oil> rwhitby: btw: http://i46.tinypic.com/2r3z7m0.png
Jan 03 01:12:06 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 01:12:16 <lingfish> rwhitby: pics and don't STFU
Jan 03 01:12:32 <rwhitby> oil: nice
Jan 03 01:12:32 <freakout> oil: lol @ error message
Jan 03 01:12:40 <freakout> Please keep that.
Jan 03 01:12:55 <tlp> zsoc: shouldn't g be reverse in Doom?
Jan 03 01:12:55 <Jack87> rwhitby: what did i need to do to allow permisions in launching quake again. the command you sent me yesterday
Jan 03 01:13:03 <lingfish> WARNING: READ THIS!
Jan 03 01:13:03 <Jack87> chm...
Jan 03 01:13:22 <rwhitby> oil: of course I just had a thought in the shower this morning that SDL in a card actually allows us to do real dialogue-based install stuff ...
Jan 03 01:13:38 <zsoc> tlp: sdl bug
Jan 03 01:13:45 <zsoc> tlp: it _is_ reverse
Jan 03 01:13:46 <tlp> ah
Jan 03 01:13:46 <sepi> Hey, btw. there is a little bug in doom. the keybindings don't work on a german pre. z is inverted with y.
Jan 03 01:13:49 <rwhitby> oil: but this is much sexier
Jan 03 01:14:06 <lingfish> rwhitby: pics :P
Jan 03 01:14:12 <rwhitby> sepi: ah, going left isn't used that much in germany ...
Jan 03 01:14:18 <Jack87> rwhitby: nm got it chmod ugo+x sdlquake
Jan 03 01:14:23 <sepi> rwhitby: haha
Jan 03 01:14:26 <zsoc> lol
Jan 03 01:14:27 <rwhitby> lingfish: pics of what?
Jan 03 01:14:33 <lingfish> rwhitby: surgery?
Jan 03 01:14:48 <oil> rwhitby: thats just the messages portion of it
Jan 03 01:15:00 <rwhitby> lingfish: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/touchstone
Jan 03 01:15:07 <lingfish> ta
Jan 03 01:15:08 <tlp> Doom is actually fun on the pre because it's such a pain in the ass to play :p
Jan 03 01:15:13 <sepi> rwhitby: I wanted to fix it, but I guess it's hardcoded in the binary or save in the wad?
Jan 03 01:15:39 <rwhitby> sepi: you'll need to ask the WHE for that, I'm just the PM
Jan 03 01:15:45 <oil> waity
Jan 03 01:15:50 <oil> "rwhitby: oil: of course I just had a thought in the shower this morning..."
Jan 03 01:15:51 <oil> "lingfish: rwhitby: pics :P"
Jan 03 01:16:07 <lingfish> hahahahaa
Jan 03 01:16:10 <lingfish> ahem.
Jan 03 01:16:21 <lingfish> THEY'RE FOR FREAKOUT!
Jan 03 01:16:30 <lingfish> He needs "comfort" whilst getting a boot up his camp
Jan 03 01:16:54 <freakout> I just save Rod's Precentral interviews for that on an endless loop
Jan 03 01:17:01 <freakout> Helps me go to sleep :p
Jan 03 01:17:05 <lingfish> mmmm.... Rodcast
Jan 03 01:17:23 <rwhitby> so, what's a good name for a repo that builds a cross-compilation environment including headers, libs unpacked from doctors or sdk, and toolchains ?
Jan 03 01:17:28 <lingfish> I always love hearing an aussie talk amongst yanks... our accent seems so strange
Jan 03 01:17:37 <oil> lol
Jan 03 01:17:49 <lingfish> rwhitby: xtoolpre
Jan 03 01:17:54 <rwhitby> lingfish: I have an accent?
Jan 03 01:18:03 <zsoc> lingfish: do you realize when you guys say "beer can" it sounds like a jamacian saying "bacon" ?
Jan 03 01:18:05 <oil> whilst listening i tried to say words the same way rwhitby was saying them
Jan 03 01:18:07 <lingfish> We all do.  :)
Jan 03 01:18:07 <oil> and i was unable to
Jan 03 01:18:13 <freakout> rwhitby: DrFrankenstein
Jan 03 01:18:15 <lingfish> zsoc: HAHAHAHAA
Jan 03 01:18:29 <zsoc> lingfish: i laughed about that for 4 days straight
Jan 03 01:18:33 <ird> rwhitby: re: cross compiling. awesome :D
Jan 03 01:18:38 <lingfish> mmm, bacon
Jan 03 01:18:53 * rwhitby chooses preware/cross-compile.git
Jan 03 01:18:59 <zsoc> rwhitby: good idea
Jan 03 01:19:17 <lingfish> rwhitby: oh god... this surgery is a mess... i'm just doing to cut a bus card into a circle and tape to the top :P
Jan 03 01:19:41 <rwhitby> lingfish: surgery didn't work anyway.
Jan 03 01:19:49 <lingfish> doh
Jan 03 01:20:01 <atlanta> grrrrrr i get so mad when users give an app 5 stars because they cant install
Jan 03 01:20:03 <atlanta> not my fault lol
Jan 03 01:20:05 <lingfish> And damnit, in true dork style, I'll even do photos of the process.
Jan 03 01:20:06 <zsoc> rwhitby: and technically that stuff isn't "sticky", it just has a high coefficient of friction
Jan 03 01:20:37 <lingfish> zsoc: I was wondering actually... becaus I haven't even removed the plastic film... does it build up with gunk?
Jan 03 01:20:48 <lingfish> I think its called "micro suction" or some wanky name?
Jan 03 01:20:51 <Jack87> rwhitby: why wont the changes i make to config.cfg for quake stick. it reverts to default at launch each time
Jan 03 01:20:56 <lingfish> I'm worried it'll just clug with dust
Jan 03 01:20:59 <zsoc> lingfish: warm soapy water, good as new in 5 minutes
Jan 03 01:21:13 <lingfish> zsoc: ah very nice.
Jan 03 01:21:19 <jacques> well, that was fun. crashed my workstation
Jan 03 01:21:27 <rwhitby> Jack87: you'll have to ask the WHE, I'm just the PM
Jan 03 01:21:46 <lingfish> I'm vexed that the charger itself lets you change plugs... right now I have to run with a stupid euro changer adaptor
Jan 03 01:21:49 <Abyssul> lol rod's accent...
Jan 03 01:21:54 <lingfish> So I'll be buying the "traveller kit"
Jan 03 01:22:10 <rwhitby> lingfish: the Palm traveller kit includes *two* aussie adapters
Jan 03 01:22:32 <rwhitby> (Palm did that at my request)
Jan 03 01:22:49 <Robi_> wow my keypad stopped working, can't type anything
Jan 03 01:22:50 <lingfish> rwhitby: very nice!  So it has two of everything?
Jan 03 01:23:06 <rwhitby> lingfish: nope, just two australian adapters
Jan 03 01:23:18 <rwhitby> one US, one UK, one EU
Jan 03 01:23:19 <lingfish> lol... man you must have a good dialog with them
Jan 03 01:23:35 <rwhitby> lingfish: they did that after Rubinstein started using Preware
Jan 03 01:23:39 <lingfish> rwhitby: tell those idiots to talk to ME about the three largish bugs I've found and that nobody has responded to
Jan 03 01:23:41 <Abyssul> Lol
Jan 03 01:23:47 <freakout> rwhitby: lol. been meaning to get one of those kits myself
Jan 03 01:23:50 <Abyssul> I wonder what phone Rubinstein uses
Jan 03 01:23:50 <freakout> that's handy
Jan 03 01:23:56 <zsoc> rwhitby: aussie adapters are the ones with the two IEC prongs at 45 degree angles?
Jan 03 01:24:04 <rwhitby> zsoc: yep
Jan 03 01:24:05 <lingfish> zsoc: yep.. like "asian eyes"
Jan 03 01:24:15 <zsoc> lingfish: i'm asian
Jan 03 01:24:17 <freakout> lingfish: racist!
Jan 03 01:24:21 <lingfish> hahahahaa
Jan 03 01:24:24 <zsoc> xD
Jan 03 01:24:25 <lingfish> A smiling one!
Jan 03 01:24:42 <lingfish> rwhitby: did you just order yours from Precentral?
Jan 03 01:24:43 * freakout apologies to all asians in the chan for both zsoc and lingfish
Jan 03 01:25:01 <lingfish> What, I can't even say the word "asian" anymore :P
Jan 03 01:25:15 <rwhitby> lingfish: yep.  got a dodgy one two (the one I did surgery on) and they sent out a replacement free of charge.
Jan 03 01:25:23 <rwhitby> one too even
Jan 03 01:25:28 <lingfish> rwhitby: cool.
Jan 03 01:25:32 <lingfish> shipping is the killer :(
Jan 03 01:25:45 <rwhitby> lingfish: I Cc'd dieter on the support request ;-)
Jan 03 01:26:04 <lingfish> hahaha
Jan 03 01:26:18 <zsoc> who the heck uses scons?
Jan 03 01:26:34 <rwhitby> scons is good
Jan 03 01:26:40 <rwhitby> we use it at work
Jan 03 01:26:49 <tmzt> it's pretty cool
Jan 03 01:26:50 <rwhitby> good for cross-platform building
Jan 03 01:26:56 * zsoc clearly knows nothing
Jan 03 01:26:59 <tmzt> if everything used it cross platform would be easy
Jan 03 01:27:03 <tmzt> but only on linux :)
Jan 03 01:27:15 <rwhitby> I should use it in preware/cross-compile.git, just to make cross-compilation even harder ;-)
Jan 03 01:27:23 <zsoc> Does anyone else find apts verbage "selecting previously deselected package" very awkward?
Jan 03 01:27:35 <rwhitby> tmzt: we use it on windows too
Jan 03 01:28:01 <destinal> zsoc: apparently, fceux does :)
Jan 03 01:28:12 <tmzt> I mean it's not as versatile as autotools on other platforms
Jan 03 01:28:25 <rwhitby> destinal: ok, now how should preware/cross-compile.git be laid out
Jan 03 01:28:28 <tmzt> but autotools has largely been replaced by pkg-config anyway
Jan 03 01:28:39 <lingfish> tmzt: and that's a good thing ;)
Jan 03 01:28:40 <tmzt> and languages like vala that can deal with .pc names automatically
Jan 03 01:28:54 <tmzt> I mean the detection parts of autotools
Jan 03 01:29:10 <rwhitby> destinal: obviously separate trees for armv6, arvm7, i686 target libs and binaries
Jan 03 01:29:20 <zsoc> i like pkg-config
Jan 03 01:29:26 <rwhitby> destinal: I guess includes go along with those too
Jan 03 01:29:39 <destinal> rwhitby: hmm, aren't headers typically common?
Jan 03 01:30:17 <rwhitby> destinal: but for toolchains, do we require linux, or do we put an extra level there too so we can have a Darwin-compiled cs07q3armel toolchain too ...
Jan 03 01:31:00 <rwhitby> destinal: armel headers might be different from i686 headers - one tree is from CS, other is from crosstool-ng
Jan 03 01:31:48 <destinal> rwhitby: I'm comfortable requiring linux, personally
Jan 03 01:31:51 <zsoc> dtzWill: you catch my keysym comment?
Jan 03 01:32:02 <Robi_> just received my SSD drive from NewEgg and it's 120G. I ordered a 30G.
Jan 03 01:32:04 <rwhitby> destinal: I wouldn't mind personally being able to build on darwin
Jan 03 01:32:35 <zsoc> crap, does webos have zenity?
Jan 03 01:32:46 <destinal> rwhitby: but you're targeting linux, and you may need linux headers
Jan 03 01:32:55 <zsoc> Robi_: did they charge you the same amount?
Jan 03 01:33:03 <destinal> I mean it could work, but will add complexity, if you're comfortable with that, cool
Jan 03 01:33:10 <Robi_> yep
Jan 03 01:33:19 <Robi_> weird thing is.. the packaging doesn't say apart from the sticker what it is
Jan 03 01:33:23 <Robi_> it has 2 bar codes one is for a 30g and the smaller one is for 120g
Jan 03 01:33:31 <zsoc> ha
Jan 03 01:34:35 <Robi_> just looked inside to make sure! ;]
Jan 03 01:34:43 <destinal> zsoc: apt-get install'ing zenity wants 90 megs of other stuff
Jan 03 01:34:56 <zsoc> destinal: mostly unnecessary :P
Jan 03 01:35:14 <Robi_> so wtf isn't my pre keyboard working at all
Jan 03 01:35:41 <jacques> headers are not common if you are talking about kernel or libc
Jan 03 01:36:03 <rwhitby> zsoc: oil is working on the front-end for a zenity port to webOS
Jan 03 01:36:23 <zsoc> rwhitby: ah ok
Jan 03 01:37:02 <lingfish> rwhitby: did you take those pics with your Pre?
Jan 03 01:37:03 <rwhitby> destinal: the triplet for the toolchain directory will probably allow for it anyway
Jan 03 01:37:10 <rwhitby> lingfish: nope, camera
Jan 03 01:37:21 <lingfish> rwhitby: yeah, thought so.  No AF is quite annoying.
Jan 03 01:37:34 <rwhitby> dunno if the pre can do 1cm macro
Jan 03 01:37:59 <zsoc> it definitely cant
Jan 03 01:38:07 <rwhitby> destinal, jacques: so I'm figuring we go with 2007q3armel
Jan 03 01:38:22 <rwhitby> (since we know that's what Palm uses for the rootfs)
Jan 03 01:38:45 <zsoc> what glib/libc versions?
Jan 03 01:39:40 <lingfish> zsoc: yep, agreed.  My 5D Mk II can though, brilliantly of course ;)
Jan 03 01:40:02 <destinal> rwhitby: cool
Jan 03 01:40:37 <rwhitby> zsoc: same as what Palm uses
Jan 03 01:41:04 <zsoc> rwhitby: ok then, that's my vote :P (if i got one?)
Jan 03 01:42:57 * oil makes another "elite webos hacker extraordinaire " joke
Jan 03 01:42:58 <jacques> rwhitby: I say we use same exact toolchain as Palm until we have a compelling reason not to
Jan 03 01:43:22 <jacques> rwhitby: however... it would be nice to be able to easily test other toolchains
Jan 03 01:43:42 <jacques> but 2007q3 by default is my vote
Jan 03 01:43:55 <zsoc> the only compelling reason i can think of is some things seem not to like compiling against a libc older than me
Jan 03 01:44:23 <jacques> so, apparently webos has kernel support for NFS but not userspace...
Jan 03 01:44:52 <jacques> anyone already mounted an NFS filesystem on the Pre and can tell me what I need to install? (would just save me time)
Jan 03 01:45:00 <rwhitby> jacques: yeah, ability to have different toolchains is a must, if only for the case where Palm updates their toolchain for a future version
Jan 03 01:45:40 <jacques> my current error is: "RPC: failed to contact local rpcbind server" so I assume I need portmap ?
Jan 03 01:46:48 <jacques> rwhitby: I want to do some performance testing, and simple multiple toolchain support would save a lot of time
Jan 03 01:47:08 <cashen007> wIRC is nice.  very easy to use
Jan 03 01:47:09 <dtzWill> zsoc: back, change tilde for console? yeah i'll do taht
Jan 03 01:48:31 <rick_home> rwhitby  evening.
Jan 03 01:48:31 <jacques> hmm, nfs-utils is not in webos optware
Jan 03 01:49:05 <rwhitby> rick_home: g'day
Jan 03 01:49:42 <atlanta> ok time to go interact with my social life
Jan 03 01:49:42 <atlanta> bbl
Jan 03 01:50:47 <rwhitby> jacques: git.webos-internals.org/preware/cross-compile.git
Jan 03 01:51:02 <rwhitby> jacques: I'll be updating that regularly as I flesh this out
Jan 03 01:52:33 <jacques> rwhitby: cool. I'll be checking it out regularly
Jan 03 01:53:20 <Jack87> what is extream
Jan 03 01:53:30 <Jack87> xtream
Jan 03 01:55:32 <jacques> ooooooh, all I had to do was mount -o nolock ...
Jan 03 01:55:46 <jacques> tho that might not be ideal...
Jan 03 02:00:42 <en0x> hmm
Jan 03 02:00:57 <en0x> i wonder if i should doctor my pre for shits and giggles
Jan 03 02:01:02 <en0x> nothing wrong with it
Jan 03 02:03:34 <zsoc> en0x: meta doctor :D
Jan 03 02:03:47 <en0x> why metadoctor?
Jan 03 02:05:25 <rwhitby> cause it's 'meta'
Jan 03 02:05:40 <nfoxTc> i like this phone a ,ittle more every day\n
Jan 03 02:05:47 <en0x> lol i find no use for it now
Jan 03 02:05:54 <rick_home> so do a lot of the rest of us nfoxTc
Jan 03 02:06:02 <en0x> since the apps r on media
Jan 03 02:06:13 <nfoxTc> just seen the quake demo heh\n
Jan 03 02:07:02 <en0x> it drops frames
Jan 03 02:07:05 <en0x> in few scenes
Jan 03 02:07:07 <en0x> hmm
Jan 03 02:07:11 <rick_home> it's a demo
Jan 03 02:07:17 <en0x> who cares
Jan 03 02:07:18 <en0x> :p
Jan 03 02:07:35 <rick_home> en0x  the source is posted.  Go fix it.  :-)
Jan 03 02:07:52 <zsoc> Hm, is there anyway to 'get back into' a shell once it's lost? it's still there busy as a bee, i'm just not in it
Jan 03 02:07:53 <en0x> hehe
Jan 03 02:08:02 <nfoxTc> thats running on the cpu only right\n
Jan 03 02:08:34 <en0x> zsoc, so u stopped working on precorder now?
Jan 03 02:08:42 <nfoxTc> thats why its slow enox\n
Jan 03 02:08:55 <zsoc> en0x: the new flawlessly awesome version is done, but it's useless until the audioencoder gets fixed
Jan 03 02:09:00 <zsoc> en0x: waiting on palm. it's dsp stuff
Jan 03 02:09:13 <tmzt> zsoc: what's it doing? you can try stealing the pty but it's not likely to work
Jan 03 02:09:19 <tmzt> also, in future use screen :)
Jan 03 02:09:22 <zsoc> tmzt: compiling something :P
Jan 03 02:09:31 <en0x> zsoc, and when they said that they will fix it?
Jan 03 02:09:40 <rick_home> en0x  they never say nuthin
Jan 03 02:09:42 <en0x> it took them 5 updates to fix aac+ issues
Jan 03 02:09:42 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:09:47 <rick_home> .
Jan 03 02:09:49 <zsoc> en0x: they didn't. but they have to fix it to get their video recorder working. they probably already have the fix actually
Jan 03 02:10:06 <en0x> got viewfinder working? :P
Jan 03 02:10:19 <Jack87> why does everyone call it viewfinder
Jan 03 02:10:29 <zsoc> en0x: no, but if the audio encoder worked i would. just a hop skip and a jump now with sdl surfaces
Jan 03 02:10:29 <Jack87> its live view the phone doesnt have a viewfinder
Jan 03 02:10:32 <ird> Isn't viewfinder the disney toy?
Jan 03 02:10:32 <en0x> i call it as others do
Jan 03 02:10:33 <tmzt> overlay
Jan 03 02:10:33 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:10:33 <Jack87> and never will
Jan 03 02:10:43 <nfoxTc> lol\n
Jan 03 02:10:52 <tmzt> ird: I think it's Milton Bradley actually
Jan 03 02:10:59 <en0x> hehe
Jan 03 02:11:11 <Jack87> well en0x its live view ;)
Jan 03 02:11:21 <en0x> Jack87, r  u that spmmer from precentral forum?
Jan 03 02:11:25 <ird> btw
Jan 03 02:11:26 <ird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viewfinder
Jan 03 02:11:30 <zsoc> en0x: yes that's him lol
Jan 03 02:11:34 <en0x> lol
Jan 03 02:11:35 <zsoc> en0x: he's a spammer in here too ;)
Jan 03 02:11:39 <en0x> gee
Jan 03 02:11:44 <en0x> go play in different sandbox
Jan 03 02:11:45 <en0x> :D
Jan 03 02:11:46 <cashen007> I do. I just drilled a hole in my phone to get my "viewfinder" to work
Jan 03 02:12:03 <ird> cashen: best fix I've heard yet.
Jan 03 02:12:12 <ird> But I don't think there is a patch for that.
Jan 03 02:12:17 <cashen007> ird: : spanks
Jan 03 02:12:18 <nfoxTc> palm must love you guys zsoc
Jan 03 02:12:31 <ird> cashen007: no thanks
Jan 03 02:12:38 <en0x> hmm i havent tweeted anything in 2 days
Jan 03 02:12:39 <en0x> lol
Jan 03 02:12:43 <cashen007> ha, thankk
Jan 03 02:12:46 <ird> I haven't tweeted in.. months.
Jan 03 02:12:50 <en0x> lol :P
Jan 03 02:12:54 <Jack87> hum.... but i dont spam... i nag
Jan 03 02:13:03 <ird> The last time I tweeted I was drunk in a bar.
Jan 03 02:13:04 <en0x> its snowing here... i havent moved from my house for last 2 days
Jan 03 02:13:17 <ird> It's odd that I remember that.
Jan 03 02:13:43 <en0x> when i was starting tweeting
Jan 03 02:13:55 <cashen007> it's like 5 degrees here
Jan 03 02:14:06 <en0x> i was twitting something like"i'm taking a crap now... i should be done in 5 "
Jan 03 02:14:09 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:14:25 <en0x> hehehehe
Jan 03 02:14:32 <ird_zzz> is there no way to link a nick on this network?
Jan 03 02:14:39 <en0x> the slogan is tell us what u r doing...
Jan 03 02:14:40 <lingfish> So, opinions sought.  I'm noticing some random and annoying rendering issues with a website from my Pre.  A large news site.  I need help troubleshooting it... who can help me?
Jan 03 02:14:51 <en0x> lingfish, what site?
Jan 03 02:14:57 <en0x> free6.com? :>
Jan 03 02:15:00 <ird_zzz> oh wait
Jan 03 02:15:01 <ird_zzz> I'm stupid
Jan 03 02:15:03 <lingfish> en0x: theage.com.au, one of our biggest news sites
Jan 03 02:15:09 <zsoc> nfoxTc: why?
Jan 03 02:15:14 <Jack87> costco.com and samsclub.com wont render right either
Jan 03 02:15:15 <en0x> oh u australian u
Jan 03 02:15:15 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:15:26 <lingfish> en0x: I find that some days it just renders crap -- it goes to a tiny full width view
Jan 03 02:15:29 <tmzt> they work on iPHone?
Jan 03 02:15:34 <cashen007> I notice some odd lines after 135
Jan 03 02:15:36 <lingfish> and I don't know why, or how to troubleshoot it, hence who to blame?
Jan 03 02:15:39 <tmzt> ird: huh? freenode.net has instructions
Jan 03 02:15:43 <ird> yes
Jan 03 02:15:46 <ird> I found that.
Jan 03 02:15:54 <ird> I just wasn't looking for "group"
Jan 03 02:16:03 <tmzt> ah right
Jan 03 02:16:08 <en0x> Jack87, costco doenst work for me at all
Jan 03 02:16:09 <nfoxTc> well you guys are helping sell the pre
Jan 03 02:16:24 <lingfish> en0x: mobile.theage.com.au
Jan 03 02:16:32 <Jack87> en0x: when i first got the pre it was only white now sometimes some of the page shows up
Jan 03 02:16:45 <ird_zzZ> alright
Jan 03 02:16:50 <en0x> its white on mine
Jan 03 02:16:54 <lingfish> en0x: Can you try?  See how they have that blue bar across?  I suspect they're forcing a width attribute?
Jan 03 02:17:02 <lingfish> en0x: never fails on the iCrap
Jan 03 02:17:21 <lingfish> All: well it renders.. its just a width issue...
Jan 03 02:17:22 <en0x> the mobile version?
Jan 03 02:17:32 <lingfish> yep
Jan 03 02:17:33 <en0x> oh
Jan 03 02:17:37 <en0x> yap it looks like crap
Jan 03 02:17:46 <en0x> desktop version looks much better
Jan 03 02:17:47 <en0x> )
Jan 03 02:17:54 <lingfish> en0x: right.. and its random.  One day (today) works excellent, the next no
Jan 03 02:18:02 <lingfish> and I just don't have the 2.0 skills to work out why :(
Jan 03 02:18:11 <Jack87> lingfish: looks fine
Jan 03 02:18:12 <en0x> maybe its not loading the css in full?
Jan 03 02:18:44 <lingfish> Jack87: hrm, try a reload and cache flush?
Jan 03 02:19:04 <lingfish> en0x: perhaps... but again, how to troubleshoot that?  Is there logging for the web app, blah blah...
Jan 03 02:19:20 <lingfish> en0x: the css looks cachable enough from headers and cachability
Jan 03 02:19:43 <Jack87> agan fine
Jan 03 02:19:43 <lingfish> And it's leaning towards a bug in the browser... but wanna be sure
Jan 03 02:19:56 <en0x> maybe its a bug who whows
Jan 03 02:20:01 <en0x> knows*
Jan 03 02:20:03 <lingfish> Jack87: weird.  Try again tomorrow or something... some days good, some bad... flushing caches usually doesn't fix it
Jan 03 02:20:11 <en0x> when u dont have any tools to debug it
Jan 03 02:20:29 <lingfish> I just want to hookup with someone who can help t-shoot it once and for all
Jan 03 02:20:34 <en0x> maybe the browser in webos uses some magic palm proxy servers
Jan 03 02:20:35 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:20:48 <Jack87> lingfish: ya. i flushed cashe and it worked. i am on wifi at the momment
Jan 03 02:20:52 <lingfish> nah... done all that.. sniffed packets and whatnot
Jan 03 02:21:16 <en0x> i dont use wifi on my pre anymore
Jan 03 02:21:22 <en0x> evdo is fast enough for me
Jan 03 02:21:23 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:21:27 <lingfish> I usually use Firebug, but that's not helping me
Jan 03 02:21:40 <Jack87> on wifi for ssh
Jan 03 02:21:58 <lingfish> So, no thoguhts on who to talk to?  Or where?  precentral forums ?
Jan 03 02:22:08 <en0x> lingfish, try there first
Jan 03 02:22:30 <en0x> Jack87, well when i'm sshing i use wifi too but when i dont have to ssh i just use evdo
Jan 03 02:22:41 <en0x> i havent sshed to my pre since 1.3.5 update
Jan 03 02:22:52 <lingfish> hmm.
Jan 03 02:23:25 <cashen007> I need a tablet with webos
Jan 03 02:24:14 <en0x> tablet wont happen anytime soon
Jan 03 02:24:28 <en0x> not until palm will create vk
Jan 03 02:24:53 <oil> palm shouldnt make a tablet
Jan 03 02:24:57 <oil> they should focus on phones
Jan 03 02:25:04 <rwhitby> jacques: updated
Jan 03 02:25:33 <en0x> they should create a pedobear
Jan 03 02:25:34 <en0x> :D
Jan 03 02:26:17 <en0x> so everyone is now gettin better battery life since the update?
Jan 03 02:26:28 <lingfish> en0x: not I... damned O2 :P
Jan 03 02:26:32 <zsoc> en0x: i am at work where i have a bad signal
Jan 03 02:26:52 <en0x> zsoc, when i'm working i have bad signal too no bars at all
Jan 03 02:26:58 <en0x> only verizon have coverage
Jan 03 02:27:04 <zsoc> en0x: roaming ftw
Jan 03 02:27:23 <en0x> yap'
Jan 03 02:27:41 <lingfish> Don't you guys get slugged hard with roaming?
Jan 03 02:27:53 <nfoxTc> its funny how my pre inspired me to move to linux on my pc
Jan 03 02:28:24 <lingfish> Here in .au roaming is NOT a good thing for the wallet
Jan 03 02:28:28 <jacques> rwhitby: got it
Jan 03 02:28:29 <BoBoYsDaDDa> i did the same on my laptop. now if i could just make sense of the thing
Jan 03 02:28:35 <en0x> well i'm happy that linux days are over for me nfoxTc
Jan 03 02:28:45 <nfoxTc> what distro boboysdadda?
Jan 03 02:28:47 <Jack87> lingfish: roaming is free on sprint and other networks now before it didnt use to be
Jan 03 02:28:49 <nfoxTc> whys that en0x
Jan 03 02:28:49 <sparklo> did anyone try to tether your pre through bluetooth? not mywifi
Jan 03 02:29:08 <lingfish> Jack87: wow.. lucky.
Jan 03 02:29:21 <en0x> nfoxTc, no life... u only do... compile/configure/compile/configure// and for days try to figure out why something is not working :P
Jan 03 02:29:39 <rwhitby> jacques: based on that, how do you think the rest should be laid out?
Jan 03 02:29:44 <lingfish> Can someone explain data roaming, in a GSM context?
Jan 03 02:29:53 <dtzWill> zsoc, Jack87: changing the headers don't cahnge the values reported by libSDL
Jan 03 02:30:00 <jacques> rwhitby: looking...
Jan 03 02:30:02 <rwhitby> jacques: we just need a staging/include dir, right?
Jan 03 02:30:04 <en0x> lingfish, it will use different service provider for data
Jan 03 02:30:04 <nfoxTc> not at all en0x
Jan 03 02:30:13 <en0x> nfoxTc, not with ubuntu
Jan 03 02:30:14 <nfoxTc> what distro did you use?
Jan 03 02:30:15 <zsoc> dtzWill: sure it does
Jan 03 02:30:17 <en0x> but ubuntu sux!
Jan 03 02:30:22 <nfoxTc> yeah im using ubuntu
Jan 03 02:30:23 <zsoc> dtzWill: quake uses those values on compile
Jan 03 02:30:26 <en0x> i used linux for too long man
Jan 03 02:30:26 <jacques> rwhitby: we definitely need that
Jan 03 02:30:29 <nfoxTc> nah its much much better then windows
Jan 03 02:30:30 <djk> trying to use webosdoctor but it doesn't see the pre connected even though Novacom is running and the USB shows it there. Any ideas?
Jan 03 02:30:33 <en0x> ~10 yrs
Jan 03 02:30:37 <en0x> and i still use it at work
Jan 03 02:30:39 <lingfish> en0x: but if I manually search for a network (in pref above), and it doesnt find any others... no dice right?
Jan 03 02:30:40 <nfoxTc> i vbox windows when i NEED it
Jan 03 02:30:48 <zsoc> lingfish: roaming is free on sprint plans here
Jan 03 02:30:49 <en0x> lingfish, afaik no
Jan 03 02:30:52 <rwhitby> jacques: maybe staging/armv7/{include,lib,bin} and symlink over to rootfs?
Jan 03 02:30:55 <dtzWill> i'll look more but it doesn't actually have a big table of symbol to ascii values, it probably just does some transformation
Jan 03 02:30:57 <en0x> zsoc, we not talking about sprint
Jan 03 02:31:05 <zsoc> en0x: your mom is i thought
Jan 03 02:31:05 <lingfish> en0x: does it tell you if it has data roamed?
Jan 03 02:31:17 <en0x> zsoc, she talks about a lot of stuff ;D
Jan 03 02:31:21 <Jack87> dtzWill: zsoc did it with doom :-/
Jan 03 02:31:26 <en0x> lingfish, nope
Jan 03 02:31:39 <lingfish> en0x: ta.
Jan 03 02:31:45 <en0x> lingfish, on sprint in roams only in 1x which is similar to edge
Jan 03 02:31:47 <jacques> rwhitby: what's the rootfs (dir) for?
Jan 03 02:31:57 <lingfish> I still can't even MMS :(
Jan 03 02:32:02 <rwhitby> jacques: unpacked doctor rootfs, for getting libs from
Jan 03 02:32:03 <lingfish> I can't send.. but I can receive
Jan 03 02:32:04 <en0x> lingfish, why so :(
Jan 03 02:32:09 <en0x> cant change settings/
Jan 03 02:32:11 <en0x> ?
Jan 03 02:32:13 <jacques> rwhitby: ah, then yeah
Jan 03 02:32:20 <lingfish> en0x: dunno... haven't worked it out.  Settings look fine, either manually set or auto
Jan 03 02:32:21 <Robi_> has anyone heard of ones keyboard stopped working?
Jan 03 02:32:26 <nfoxTc> whats wrong with ubuntu en0x?
Jan 03 02:32:33 <rwhitby> jacques: ln -s /wherever-your-webos-doctor-archive-is ./doctors
Jan 03 02:32:38 <lingfish> en0x: I've tried hassling Voda as I'm pretty convinced its their fault... I'm getting BILLED for them...
Jan 03 02:32:50 <en0x> suckers
Jan 03 02:32:55 <en0x> i had something like that on my SE
Jan 03 02:32:56 <lingfish> en0x: I put another carriers SIM in and it worked fine...
Jan 03 02:33:02 <rwhitby> jacques: stuff in downloads will be distributed by the autobuilder, stuff in doctors will not
Jan 03 02:33:24 <lingfish> Any Aussies alive here using Voda and MMS successfully?
Jan 03 02:33:34 * rwhitby has never sent an MMS
Jan 03 02:33:45 <lingfish> rwhitby: but you're not Voda either
Jan 03 02:33:55 <rwhitby> lingfish: yeah, I'm vf
Jan 03 02:33:59 <cashen007> I love sprint
Jan 03 02:34:07 <lingfish> rwhitby: well shit... can we test please? :)
Jan 03 02:34:11 <en0x> nfoxTc, do u know what ubuntu means?
Jan 03 02:34:25 <en0x> lingfish, well then it looks like provider issue
Jan 03 02:34:27 <nfoxTc> its something african I cant remember what though
Jan 03 02:34:29 <rwhitby> lingfish: talk me through it
Jan 03 02:34:39 <tmzt> en0x: evdo doesn't roam?
Jan 03 02:34:43 <lingfish> rwhitby: literally just create a new msg, attach a pic.
Jan 03 02:34:44 <lingfish> send...
Jan 03 02:34:48 <en0x> tmzt, never for me
Jan 03 02:34:50 <en0x> only 1x
Jan 03 02:34:53 <tmzt> try updating prl
Jan 03 02:34:53 <dtzWill> zsoc: i just ended up hardcording q->backquote
Jan 03 02:34:59 <en0x> tmzt, did that
Jan 03 02:35:10 <en0x> i'm on ..78
Jan 03 02:35:14 <en0x> or somethiing like that
Jan 03 02:35:14 <Jack87> dtzWill: so that worked?
Jan 03 02:35:26 <en0x> nfoxTc, ubuntu means I Can't Install Debian
Jan 03 02:35:27 <zsoc> dtzWill: if it works :)
Jan 03 02:35:27 <en0x> hahaha
Jan 03 02:35:29 * en0x hides
Jan 03 02:35:48 <nfoxTc> lol, well ubuntu is my first linux distro so im new
Jan 03 02:35:54 <tmzt> en0x: it means I don't like the debian-desktop package and it's impossible to configure
Jan 03 02:35:59 <nfoxTc> so far im never going back to windows
Jan 03 02:36:10 <en0x> tmzt, hehehe :P
Jan 03 02:36:19 <tmzt> and get the same experience each time
Jan 03 02:36:25 <en0x> yeah right
Jan 03 02:36:27 <dtzWill> zsoc: hehe if the config reading can't work i might have to hardcore it all o_O
Jan 03 02:36:30 <dtzWill> lo
Jan 03 02:36:32 <dtzWill> l
Jan 03 02:36:33 <en0x> i'm running debian on 2 desktops at work
Jan 03 02:36:36 <en0x> with no issues
Jan 03 02:36:36 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:36:37 <dtzWill> although don't see why config reading wouldn't work....
Jan 03 02:36:40 <tmzt> oh, and the runtime liking of drivers really simpified things with atheros
Jan 03 02:36:50 <tmzt> en0x: hah, it must have changed
Jan 03 02:37:02 <en0x> well i'm using the experimental branch
Jan 03 02:37:05 <en0x> but still
Jan 03 02:37:05 <en0x> :)
Jan 03 02:37:08 <en0x> its debian
Jan 03 02:37:08 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:37:19 <tmzt> I switched to ubuntu at warty release
Jan 03 02:37:25 <tmzt> but I really do like debian
Jan 03 02:37:26 <en0x> before that i used to use gentoo for 5 yrs
Jan 03 02:37:34 <tmzt> I also have used that on mobile devices
Jan 03 02:37:37 <nfoxTc> whats debian like?
Jan 03 02:37:45 <tmzt> ubuntu without the gui installer
Jan 03 02:37:48 <nfoxTc> i tried slackware before ubuntu...oh god was that scary
Jan 03 02:37:51 <en0x> nfoxTc, like ubuntu but not that fancy
Jan 03 02:37:52 <en0x> :P
Jan 03 02:37:58 <en0x> slackware is nice
Jan 03 02:37:58 <en0x> :)
Jan 03 02:38:05 <en0x> looking for challenge?
Jan 03 02:38:09 <en0x> install openbsd
Jan 03 02:38:09 <en0x> ;)
Jan 03 02:38:14 <nfoxTc> i couldnt get my pre tethered so i gave up on slack ha
Jan 03 02:38:24 <nfoxTc> ill vm it one day
Jan 03 02:38:27 <tmzt> couldn't set up a route?
Jan 03 02:38:44 <tmzt> doesn't it use redhat like configuration?
Jan 03 02:38:45 <en0x> tmzt, probably no graphical configurator
Jan 03 02:38:45 <en0x> :p
Jan 03 02:38:49 <nfoxTc> couldnt even get it to reconize the phone...I prolly just needed novacom drivers
Jan 03 02:38:55 <tmzt> no
Jan 03 02:38:58 <tmzt> just udev working
Jan 03 02:39:04 <en0x> tmzt, slackware? is uses *BSD init
Jan 03 02:39:07 <lingfish> Jack87: blam... mobile.theage isn't rendering right, just tried again now
Jan 03 02:39:23 <en0x> the rest is linux like
Jan 03 02:39:54 <dtzWill> nfoxTc: slackware 'just worked' with tethering for me fwiw
Jan 03 02:40:05 <nfoxTc> when it comes to speed is slackware that much faster then ubuntu?
Jan 03 02:40:29 <zsoc> What a ridiculous error.
Jan 03 02:40:48 <zsoc> "So something's not working.. it's either this thing, or this other entirely unrelated thing."
Jan 03 02:41:02 <tmzt> yes
Jan 03 02:41:02 <en0x> lol
Jan 03 02:41:12 <rwhitby> operating systems are just tools.  use whichever one is needed at the time for the task at hand.
Jan 03 02:41:16 <tmzt> zsoc: whay error?
Jan 03 02:41:29 <dtzWill> nfoxTc: listen to rwhitby :)
Jan 03 02:41:40 <nfoxTc> yeah, ubuntu suits me pretty well right now
Jan 03 02:41:43 <zsoc> tmzt: nothing related to anything i've been talking about in here, just using this as a whiteboard for my frustration :)
Jan 03 02:42:36 <destinal> rwhitby:  ok, I NEED to get a cross compiler working with autoconf.... ScummVM is taking an incredibly long time to compile on the pre
Jan 03 02:42:59 <Jack87> it works!!!
Jan 03 02:43:13 <Jack87> binding keys via console works
Jan 03 02:43:23 <destinal> Jack87: awesome
Jan 03 02:43:33 <nfoxTc> in doom?
Jan 03 02:43:47 <Jack87> quak
Jan 03 02:43:47 <jacques> destinal: is it C++ ?
Jan 03 02:43:54 <destinal> jacques: yes
Jan 03 02:43:59 <jacques> ugh.
Jan 03 02:44:10 <Jack87> shit but i cant get it to stick after restarting the game
Jan 03 02:44:14 <jacques> distcc FTW :-D
Jan 03 02:45:28 <destinal> I suspect even when I'm done sound isn't going to work because I didn't have alsa set up .. think this is an overnight compile as-is.
Jan 03 02:46:08 <destinal> Just wanted to see if it would work, didn't count on how long it would take to build
Jan 03 02:46:18 <tmzt> why would it rebuild everything?
Jan 03 02:46:56 <destinal> tmzt: it wouldn't need to rebuild everything, I just have no idea how long it'll take to finish the current build.  building again with alsa should be pretty fast after
Jan 03 02:47:09 <jacques> destinal: is it paging like crazy?
Jan 03 02:47:42 <jacques> destinal: try stopping LunaSysMgr that should free up a lot of RAM
Jan 03 02:47:46 <destinal> jacques: not really, mostly CPU-bound
Jan 03 02:47:59 <jacques> I'm surprised.
Jan 03 02:49:29 <destinal>  stopping luna does seem to help a bit though
Jan 03 02:50:00 <jacques> distcc is in webos optware :-)
Jan 03 02:50:30 <destinal> jacques: good idea, that
Jan 03 02:50:53 <rwhitby> jacques: I'm going to make a packages directory, with subdirs for each package to be staged, and Makefiles for each which do what is required to put the right stuff in staging/${ARCH}
Jan 03 02:51:49 <bpadalino> well, i can't get anything to show up on the screen, but i get some decent output from my modified testgl file: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/hydiqaxnhol8v5nfymmxw
Jan 03 02:51:55 <destinal> jacques: how does one set up a cross compiler to build something from autoconf, anyway?  is it just a matter of changing which CC you point at and library patch etc?
Jan 03 02:52:21 <sparklo> is there any command to shutdown pre from terminal? i tried shutdown -now, but it does not work
Jan 03 02:52:26 <jacques> rwhitby: sounds good.
Jan 03 02:52:30 <rwhitby> destinal: usually command line args to configure
Jan 03 02:52:56 <zsoc> Can someone confirm webos-libsdl's ability to render SDL_HWSURFACE?
Jan 03 02:53:05 <zsoc> I'm starting to doubt the gpu's involvement here.
Jan 03 02:53:53 <jacques> destinal: sometimes the config.cache needs to be primed.
Jan 03 02:54:23 <jacques> but what rwhitby said about cmdline args does the same thing so nm :-)
Jan 03 02:54:42 <jacques> you just need to know what the values should be, which can be tricky
Jan 03 02:54:50 <rwhitby> destinal: see the optware setup for a good example of what to give to configure
Jan 03 02:55:01 <jacques> ideally the configure script is run on the native env
Jan 03 02:55:12 <bpadalino> zsoc: from the palm patch ...
Jan 03 02:55:15 <bpadalino> +#if defined PALM
Jan 03 02:55:15 <bpadalino> +	if (flags & (SDL_HWSURFACE | SDL_DOUBLEBUF)) {
Jan 03 02:55:15 <bpadalino> +	    SDL_SetError( "SDL_HWSURFACE and/or SDL_DOUBLEBUF not supported\n");
Jan 03 02:55:15 <bpadalino> +	    return(NULL);
Jan 03 02:55:17 <bpadalino> +	}
Jan 03 02:55:29 <zsoc> bpadalino: keep looking tho, that's a very small portion
Jan 03 02:55:29 <rwhitby> jacques: I reckon I'll name the packages as per the OE packages in the Palm rootfs ipkg database
Jan 03 02:55:29 <jacques> oh, maybe rwhitby was talking about paths and such, I am talking about other values
Jan 03 02:55:35 <zsoc> bpadalino: that seems to be used for... something
Jan 03 02:56:07 <jacques> rwhitby: that should avoid some potential confusion :-)
Jan 03 02:56:07 <rwhitby> jacques: then maybe one day this will transition into OE itself
Jan 03 02:56:13 <bpadalino> world 71 seems to be just hitting the gesture area .. world 69 is a forward gesture .. and escape is a backward gesture, btw
Jan 03 02:56:33 <zsoc> bpadalino: look at line 13333 of the patch
Jan 03 02:56:42 <rwhitby> jacques: I might even be able to use the .list files to stage the appropriate libs automatically ;-)
Jan 03 02:57:14 <jacques> destinal: the bad configure scripts want to compile a test app and run it to get a result. those don't work too well by default when cross-compiling
Jan 03 02:57:18 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 03 02:57:41 <rwhitby> jacques: yeah, for those we usually patch out the config script with the desired outcome
Jan 03 02:58:40 <jacques> that's probably better since config.cache isn't universally supported
Jan 03 02:58:51 <jacques> at least it didn't used to be
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jan 03 02:59:58 2010