**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 03 02:59:58 2010
Jan 03 03:00:52 <jacques> rwhitby: good thinking. :-) (possible OE transition)
Jan 03 03:02:38 <dtzWill> well got portrait mode for sdlquake, but looks a little stretched hehe
Jan 03 03:03:18 <jacques> bpadalino: are the app focus changes in your paste because it's fighting with luna ?
Jan 03 03:04:04 <dtzWill> can someone help me using git? :/
Jan 03 03:04:05 <bpadalino> no, no fighting ..
Jan 03 03:04:10 <bpadalino> i was flicking it up and clicking it back in
Jan 03 03:04:12 <dtzWill> i'm ashamed to say i can't commit my changes
Jan 03 03:04:56 <jacques> bpadalino: ah cool. mdklein (I think) had said he had flickering dueo to the two apps fighting for the fb
Jan 03 03:05:10 <zsoc> dtzWill: did you 'add' the files with changes?
Jan 03 03:05:54 <dtzWill> yeah, it's the push part
Jan 03 03:05:59 <dtzWill> says cannot access the url
Jan 03 03:06:11 <dtzWill> does it not know how to access the ssh keys automatically?
Jan 03 03:06:11 <bpadalino> jacques: i think it's because he was trying to go through the back door (just openGLES) and i am trying to go through SDL and Luna ..
Jan 03 03:06:41 <jacques> bpadalino: oh, testgles is a sdl app? mdklein was doing opengles test apps (no sdl)
Jan 03 03:06:53 <bpadalino> right .. testgl is the SDL app ..
Jan 03 03:06:57 <bpadalino> i am modifying it for testgles
Jan 03 03:07:16 <jacques> bpadalino: heh you replied while I was typing and I didn't look up before hitting "enter"
Jan 03 03:08:06 * Abyssul waiting for gameboy emu
Jan 03 03:08:18 <jacques> so are these "SDL_GL_RED_SIZE: requested 5, got 0
Jan 03 03:08:39 <jacques> sigh, why does when I copy from the browser it adds a return on the end that's so annoying
Jan 03 03:12:58 <rwhitby> dtzWill: git@git.webos-internals.org:games/sdlquake.git ?
Jan 03 03:13:51 <dtzWill> git@ ? not git:// or https:// ?
Jan 03 03:14:05 <dtzWill> sorry i haven't used git; wasn't sure the url format... i'll try that
Jan 03 03:14:20 <zsoc> dtzWill: i believe that's the "commit access" uri
Jan 03 03:14:39 <Jack87> zsoc: si console is orange+i (%)..... console binding of keys works but does not stick. cant run autoexec.cfg so thats not working either
Jan 03 03:14:47 <bpadalino> jacques: something about requesting an attribute change and not getting it ?
Jan 03 03:15:42 <dtzWill> http://wdtz.org/files/sdlquake -- smaller resolution, runs much better. also the console change jack was saying
Jan 03 03:15:47 <dtzWill> zsoc: gotcha
Jan 03 03:17:06 <jacques> bpadalino: do you think those messages are cosmetic or real problems?
Jan 03 03:17:12 <bpadalino> cosmetic
Jan 03 03:17:43 <jacques> :-)
Jan 03 03:19:23 <jacques> rwhitby: there is a pre rootfs in the doctor? I could unpack it, nfs mount it on the pre and chroot into it?
Jan 03 03:20:10 <thebitguru> did 1.3.5 change the location of system services?
Jan 03 03:20:34 <dtzWill> rwhitby: the url works better, but getting 'access denied', even when i explicitly use ssh-agent, not really sure what's wrong :(
Jan 03 03:23:01 <dtzWill> woo works sorry ty everyone
Jan 03 03:24:25 <jacques> dtzWill: what did you change?
Jan 03 03:24:30 <jacques> to make it work?
Jan 03 03:25:10 <dtzWill> jacques: i'm a dumbass and thuoght i was ssh'd to another machine and i wasn't. reading hostname ftl
Jan 03 03:25:38 <antianalog> just noticed the tut for tethering and it works, hell yes
Jan 03 03:30:03 <dtzWill> zsoc: i just pushed rotate 180 code
Jan 03 03:30:10 <dtzWill> for sdldoom
Jan 03 03:30:16 <dtzWill> let me know if you have an issues
Jan 03 03:30:19 <dtzWill> s/an/any
Jan 03 03:31:30 <rwhitby> jacques: the cross-compile.git Makefile unpacks the rootfs from the doctor
Jan 03 03:31:32 <zsoc> dtzWill: i'll check in a few mins, thank you
Jan 03 03:34:33 <rwhitby> dtzWill: do you know how to tag a new version, then release?
Jan 03 03:34:59 <andtew> when I try to enable add/delete launcher pages it fails!
Jan 03 03:37:21 <dtzWill> rwhitby: you told me the other day; i think i could do that. tag it with git, push the tag and change the version in the makefile that grabs it and push that too
Jan 03 03:37:24 <dtzWill> rwhitby: sound good?
Jan 03 03:37:56 <rwhitby> yep
Jan 03 03:38:18 <rwhitby> dtzWill: and update Changelog in Makefile - see the ipgkservice Makefile for an example of how to do changelogs
Jan 03 03:38:58 <dtzWill> understood
Jan 03 03:40:49 <Domingan> just wanted to test out wirc and it's working great!
Jan 03 03:41:13 <Domingan> THANKS FOR EVERYTHING YOU GUYS DO!!
Jan 03 03:42:11 <Jack87-wIRC-> advanced gestures are fun when running  wIRC
Jan 03 03:42:17 <rwhitby> jacques: updated
Jan 03 03:42:48 <rwhitby> jacques: auto-staging of libs from OE packages in the rootfs on demand
Jan 03 03:42:55 <rwhitby> jacques: next is to add headers to each
Jan 03 03:54:31 <jacques> back with food
Jan 03 03:56:13 <acydlord> i think today is the most the "Pause" feature has ever been used in my entire history of gaming.
Jan 03 03:57:06 <rick_home> Do we know why doom doesn't run on the pixi?
Jan 03 03:59:42 <dtzWill> zsoc: did you see the changes
Jan 03 04:00:02 <dtzWill> zsoc: not at all being impatient; i just want confirmation the git push worked.. :/ it claims to have
Jan 03 04:00:57 <zsoc> dtzWill: er... i do not see them
Jan 03 04:01:00 <rwhitby> dtzWill: you can check on git.webos-internals.org web interface
Jan 03 04:01:09 <dtzWill> rwhitby: of course,, ty
Jan 03 04:01:23 <zsoc> dtzWill: and what he said :)
Jan 03 04:02:35 <dtzWill> zsoc, rwhitby i'm very sorry this is such a difficulty; it's saying "everything up to date" when i push
Jan 03 04:02:37 <dtzWill> which is... confusing
Jan 03 04:02:54 <rwhitby> dtzWill: ah, is this for the tag?
Jan 03 04:02:59 <rwhitby> dtzWill: git push --tags
Jan 03 04:03:30 <dtzWill> no, haven't tagged anything yet, but ty
Jan 03 04:03:40 <dtzWill> i just wanna push the rotate doom patch, and start pushing all my quake changes
Jan 03 04:04:02 <zsoc> rwhitby: does scons have a 'clean' or 'uninstall' ?
Jan 03 04:04:43 <rwhitby> zsoc: dunno, actually.  I don't run it much myself.
Jan 03 04:06:23 <gointopless> how can I update preware?
Jan 03 04:07:13 <antianalog> open preware lol
Jan 03 04:07:16 <zsoc> rwhitby: bah, you just acted all tough defending it :P
Jan 03 04:08:27 <dtzWill> zsoc, rwhitby: okay for real now--checking out from 'commit' url made it work
Jan 03 04:09:07 <zsoc> dtzWill: cool, but if we build that _everyones_ keyboard will be on the left, including people who may not prefer that
Jan 03 04:09:08 <thebitguru> rwhitby: do you know what changed in 1.3.5 that my wolservice would stop working?
Jan 03 04:09:28 <rwhitby> thebitguru: possible the postinst script and $IPKG_OFFLINE_ROOT
Jan 03 04:09:38 <dtzWill> zsoc: oh that's why I asked before if you thought it was a good idea
Jan 03 04:09:42 <thebitguru> oh, I noticed that.  So, that's all, eh?
Jan 03 04:09:55 <zsoc> dtzWill: sorry, i'm sidetracked with my next project that will make engadget front page ;) lol
Jan 03 04:10:07 <zsoc> dtzWill: leave the commit for now, I like the idea, and rick will work on making options
Jan 03 04:10:12 <dtzWill> zsoc: haha alright sounds good
Jan 03 04:10:15 <dtzWill> zsoc: good luck
Jan 03 04:10:27 <zsoc> dtzWill: i don't need luck! i'm a webos hacker extraordinaire!
Jan 03 04:11:06 <dtzWill> zsoc: naturally
Jan 03 04:15:07 <rwhitby> holy crap
Jan 03 04:15:37 <rwhitby> destinal, jacques: from "strings" on LunaSysMgr:
Jan 03 04:15:52 <rwhitby> ProcessManager::launchNativeApp
Jan 03 04:15:56 <JMyaDaGod> Whats up guys?
Jan 03 04:16:10 <jacques> yes??? the suspense is killing me
Jan 03 04:16:19 <jacques> sorry not you JMyaDaGod
Jan 03 04:16:32 <destinal> rwhitby: nice.  we knew that palm wasn't hacking upstart services to start their native apps and that there was an official way.
Jan 03 04:16:41 <destinal> well, strongly conjectured anyway
Jan 03 04:16:43 <zsoc> rwhitby: so wait, is that a json hook?
Jan 03 04:16:46 <jacques> I like this one: std::string ProcessManager::launchNativeApp(const ApplicationDescription*, const std::string&, const std::string&, const std::string&, std::string&)
Jan 03 04:16:52 <zsoc> bah
Jan 03 04:17:01 <zsoc> you people and your binutils, why didn't you do this 2 days ago?!?!
Jan 03 04:17:03 <zsoc> :D
Jan 03 04:17:07 <oil> lol
Jan 03 04:17:08 <rwhitby> and nearby that string: Failed to launch native app %s with path: %s
Jan 03 04:17:14 <jacques> %s: %d Failed to launch native app %s with path: %s
Jan 03 04:17:21 <rwhitby> jacques: snap
Jan 03 04:17:25 <dtzWill> rwhitby: nice!!
Jan 03 04:17:30 <jacques> zsoc: :-( it was on my list to strings things
Jan 03 04:17:30 <destinal> jacques: you owe rwhitby a coke
Jan 03 04:17:45 <JMyaDaGod> make any progress on anymore SDL?
Jan 03 04:17:54 <rick_home> ok guys, so in strings, what else is near process manager?
Jan 03 04:17:56 <jacques> I'll gladly pay up next time he comes to the US :-D
Jan 03 04:18:06 <zsoc> Someone test this. Make a service call
Jan 03 04:18:07 <zsoc> gogogo
Jan 03 04:18:10 <rick_home> because if I know what's tagged as process manager, then we can figure out how to call it.
Jan 03 04:18:12 <rwhitby> so I *think* ProcessManager is the com.palm.applicationmanager service
Jan 03 04:18:14 <destinal> ok, so..  my other conjecture is there's some way to start these things from appinfo.json  (or failing that, a built-in service -- which processmanager may be?)
Jan 03 04:18:24 <jacques> heh "MemoryWatcher: Monitored native process # %d exceeded its memory quota. ProcMem = %d, restriction = %d, violation count = %d"
Jan 03 04:18:35 <jacques> bad native app!! no RAM for you!
Jan 03 04:18:45 <destinal> ah, there's memory quotas somewhere
Jan 03 04:19:05 <rick_home> well destinal  if it's just application manager we can try calling it from app manager
Jan 03 04:19:14 <rick_home> but that would be a VERY WEIRD app manager call.
Jan 03 04:19:22 <jacques> what's the ipcserver: int IpcServer::launchNativeProcess
Jan 03 04:19:28 <rwhitby> jacques: no idea
Jan 03 04:19:29 <jacques> is that something already known ?
Jan 03 04:19:33 <jacques> :-\
Jan 03 04:19:48 <rwhitby> jacques: IpcServer is used when talking to the modem - that's all I've seen of it before I think
Jan 03 04:20:11 <jacques> so maybe its responsibilities are increasing...
Jan 03 04:20:30 <jacques> does modem comm use a native process ?
Jan 03 04:20:39 <rwhitby> rick_home: other process manager things are:
Jan 03 04:20:40 <rwhitby> ProcessManager::launchBootTimeApp
Jan 03 04:20:49 <rwhitby> ProcessManager::launchNativeApp
Jan 03 04:20:58 <rwhitby> ProcessManager::launch
Jan 03 04:21:30 <rwhitby> so com.palm.applicationmanager has a launch method, right?
Jan 03 04:21:40 <jacques> I guess modem comm would need to be efficient
Jan 03 04:21:46 <rick_home> ipcserver usually refers to an inter-process-communications server.
Jan 03 04:21:54 <rwhitby> jacques: TIL is the modem comm stuff
Jan 03 04:22:03 <rwhitby> Telephone Interface Library I think
Jan 03 04:22:06 <rick_home> hold on rwhitby  I'm pulling the code for com.palm.applicatonmanager
Jan 03 04:22:29 <zsoc> rwhitby is the WHE now!
Jan 03 04:23:01 <jacques> heh it should be like a trophy that only one person can have at once
Jan 03 04:23:42 <rwhitby> zsoc: heh - I regularly do strings on the Luna binaries, just hadn't gotten to 1.3.5 yet with all the bloody ipkgservice crap over the last week
Jan 03 04:24:34 * rwhitby gets out his webOS book for appmanager service calls
Jan 03 04:25:10 <rwhitby> crap^2 - I need to go out in 5 minutes to meet friends
Jan 03 04:26:19 <test3> test
Jan 03 04:26:31 <rwhitby> ** Message: serviceResponse Handling: 2, {"returnValue":false,"errorCode":-1,"errorText":"Method \"launchNativeApp\" with signature \"s\" on interface \"org.json\" doesn't exist\n"}
Jan 03 04:26:36 <rick_home> rwhitby  applicatio manager has two methods I know of
Jan 03 04:26:36 <Daaknes> test sat
Jan 03 04:26:48 <rick_home> launch and open
Jan 03 04:26:50 <rwhitby> luna-send -n 1 luna://com.palm.applicationManager/launchNativeApp '{}'
Jan 03 04:27:06 <rick_home> but they could have ADDED launchNativeApp.
Jan 03 04:27:15 <rick_home> in 135
Jan 03 04:27:30 <rick_home> ok,  so what happens when you do that?
Jan 03 04:27:40 <destinal> rick_home: sure, added, but added to what
Jan 03 04:27:43 <rwhitby> rick_home: the error above
Jan 03 04:28:21 <rick_home> yep,
Jan 03 04:28:24 <rwhitby> ok, I gotta head out.
Jan 03 04:28:32 <rick_home> there's no "launch native app" in the framework for application manager
Jan 03 04:28:35 <rick_home> they left it out.
Jan 03 04:28:47 <rick_home> I'm going to try putting it in.
Jan 03 04:29:03 <destinal> I think application manager != process manager
Jan 03 04:29:14 <rick_home> oh JOY I love patching palm code, it's so CLEAN and READABLE.....
Jan 03 04:29:46 <youslippin> hey I just ran jstop and I have a "futurepr0n..." running?
Jan 03 04:31:23 <bpadalino> launchNativeAp? interesting
Jan 03 04:31:29 <zsoc> youslippin: pr0n you haven't seen yet
Jan 03 04:32:02 <rick_home> bpadalino  yeah, but I can't figure out how to call it from a mojo app
Jan 03 04:32:23 <bpadalino> rick_home, :(
Jan 03 04:32:30 * jacques is on the phone.
Jan 03 04:32:42 <destinal> bpadalino it may not be a service, it may be an internal function
Jan 03 04:32:48 <jacques> back
Jan 03 04:32:56 <youslippin> lol stupid me, that's who made jstop.. it's late and I'm high sue me
Jan 03 04:33:18 <bpadalino> well, i stopped looking at trying to recompile libSDL and just link against it .. and i can get an openGL triangle up there ..
Jan 03 04:33:29 <destinal> it's so awesome that webos comes loaded with exdump
Jan 03 04:33:31 <rick_home> cool
Jan 03 04:33:44 <destinal> bpadalino: yeah, all the cool kids are linking against it :)
Jan 03 04:33:49 <bpadalino> it seems like it
Jan 03 04:33:51 <destinal> but opengl, that's nice
Jan 03 04:34:08 <bpadalino> you have to do these shader programs ..
Jan 03 04:34:54 <jacques> my irc lag is insame right now
Jan 03 04:35:01 <jacques> insane
Jan 03 04:35:26 <dtzWill> bpadalino: opengl triangle? opengles?
Jan 03 04:35:58 <bpadalino> opengles
Jan 03 04:36:04 <jacques> ooooooh, no data while on voice. that explains my IRC lag of 361 sec
Jan 03 04:36:54 <zsoc> jacques: yes yes, this isn't att ;)
Jan 03 04:37:27 <jacques> signature ... hmm.
Jan 03 04:37:51 <destinal> ooh
Jan 03 04:38:17 <destinal> I think appinfo.json
Jan 03 04:38:26 <destinal> and I think we want a type of "game"
Jan 03 04:38:34 <zsoc> I've manage to get an error from SDL's error handler that is so uncommon, it has 0 results in google.
Jan 03 04:38:46 <destinal> strings on LunaSysMgr has the two keywords near each other and the other appinfo stuff
Jan 03 04:38:47 <zsoc> destinal: you may be right after all
Jan 03 04:39:39 <destinal> I still don't know how we get the binary path in there though
Jan 03 04:42:09 <jacques> I wonder if the native app has to be signed (and by whom)
Jan 03 04:42:44 <jacques> oh, maybe I'm misreading that line: "Method \"launchNativeApp\" with signature \"s\"
Jan 03 04:43:03 <jacques> the _method_ has a signature ... ?
Jan 03 04:47:40 <destinal> ok trying type of game with a main of the binary name
Jan 03 04:47:44 <destinal> let's see what happens
Jan 03 04:49:06 <jacques> destinal: do you think it has app profiles? as in type "game" would mean it could use more resources?
Jan 03 04:49:43 <jacques> about once a year I wish I had a slashdot acct so I could post. as in response to this: "
Jan 03 04:49:44 <jacques> Is it locked? That is really the "killer app" point for me. A commercially sold phone that is hacker friendly from the start.
Jan 03 04:50:18 <jacques> he's talking about the new google phone, but it's android == locked down and sand-boxed
Jan 03 04:50:38 <destinal> jacques: yeah pre definitely wins from that perspective.  true linux userland, one code to open novacom shell access
Jan 03 04:51:08 <destinal> alas luna and friends are closed
Jan 03 04:51:13 <jacques> I have a Nokia N800 and really like it, and maemo, and the N900 looks like great hardware, but I wonder about the penetration
Jan 03 04:52:10 <jacques> I really wonder if WebOS will make it to Verizon in its current unlocked state
Jan 03 04:52:34 <zsoc> jacques: it wont
Jan 03 04:53:29 <jacques> in that case, I hope the deal with Verizon doesn't negatively affect the rest of us on future updates
Jan 03 04:53:45 <jacques> because right now I'm pretty happy
Jan 03 04:54:38 <destinal> hmm, it doesn't care about type
Jan 03 04:54:51 <destinal> or seemingly not anyway
Jan 03 04:57:33 <dtzWill> anyone have thoughts for quake keybindings?
Jan 03 04:57:36 <destinal> wtf, there's rot13 in LunaSysMgr
Jan 03 04:57:54 <dtzWill> i presently have forward/back/strafe... and debatnig how to best use the touchscreen
Jan 03 04:58:15 <destinal> Pbclevtug 2009 Cnyz Vap.
Jan 03 04:58:22 <destinal> which decodes to  Copyright 2009 Palm Inc.
Jan 03 04:59:16 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 03 04:59:19 <destinal> and  /hfe/yvo/yvo_vq.fb   which is /usr/lib/lib_id.soso
Jan 03 04:59:24 <destinal> s/soso/so
Jan 03 04:59:31 <destinal> /usr/lib/lib_id.so
Jan 03 05:00:35 <destinal> turns out there is in fact no lib_id.so there
Jan 03 05:00:47 <jacques> destinal: that's hilarious
Jan 03 05:01:08 <Daaknes> dtzwill:  I would think a WASD format would work well wit a small area ofthe touchscreen for mouselook
Jan 03 05:01:27 <jacques> maybe it's libhid.so ?
Jan 03 05:01:51 <destinal> yeah, could be
Jan 03 05:02:32 <lingfish> grrr to Palm and the stupid App Catalog region crap
Jan 03 05:02:35 <lingfish> I want GeoStrings :(
Jan 03 05:03:29 <zsoc> dtzWill: touchscreen look is my vote
Jan 03 05:04:01 <zsoc> rot13 lol
Jan 03 05:04:17 <jacques> what's with the wxwidgets libs in webos? what are they used for?
Jan 03 05:06:24 <dtzWill> zsoc: what do you mean touchscreen look? right now i'm looking at implementing relative touchscreen movement to turn/look
Jan 03 05:07:47 <lingfish> Anyone in .au alive?  I'm finding that Google traffic isn't working lately
Jan 03 05:07:51 <zsoc> dtzWill: yes, that's what i mean
Jan 03 05:09:03 <Domingan> any way you could use the BT to connet to a mouse? maybe use the tilting for strafe?
Jan 03 05:10:47 <dtzWill> Domingan: if the bluetooth stack/sdl play nice a mouse could just work
Jan 03 05:10:59 <destinal> under general in /etc/palm .. BeAggressive__Bee_Eee_AGGRESSIVE=true
Jan 03 05:10:59 <destinal> ??
Jan 03 05:11:06 <dtzWill> ROFL
Jan 03 05:11:11 <dtzWill> destinal: hahahah
Jan 03 05:11:24 <destinal> downloadManager.conf
Jan 03 05:12:24 <zsoc> lulz
Jan 03 05:13:13 <Domingan> what about the accelerometer for the strafe?
Jan 03 05:13:43 <bpadalino> yeah i saw that a while ago, destinal .. pretty amusing
Jan 03 05:14:35 <zsoc> dtzWill: have you tried using sdl joystick?
Jan 03 05:14:56 <dtzWill> zsoc: the accel stuf you were talkng about?
Jan 03 05:15:12 <dtzWill> zsoc: no i haven't; but i never found accel stuff to be particularly useful way to play a fps
Jan 03 05:15:13 <zsoc> dtzWill: ya, but joystick is a standard hook, i'm sure quake supports it
Jan 03 05:15:19 <dtzWill> although i'm opening to be convinced otherwise
Jan 03 05:15:22 <zsoc> dtzWill: you're probably right lol
Jan 03 05:15:22 <dtzWill> *open
Jan 03 05:18:56 <thebitguru> I have tagged a local git repo, how can I push that tag to the remote one?
Jan 03 05:19:59 <dtzWill> hmm how to make mouse work is annoyingly difficult
Jan 03 05:20:03 <dtzWill> i mean thinking of a good idea
Jan 03 05:20:07 <dtzWill> bah
Jan 03 05:20:20 <zsoc> thebitguru: push --tags ?
Jan 03 05:20:34 <dtzWill> well and the fact that the current game polls the mouse state
Jan 03 05:20:48 <dtzWill> and so holding finger down repeatedly fires, annoying for movement
Jan 03 05:21:03 <thebitguru> zsoc: yup, thanks! :)
Jan 03 05:21:23 <zsoc> is there a good way to strace a process that is only starting for a moment before dying? like can I pipe it somehow?
Jan 03 05:21:41 <zsoc> dtzWill: re-map mouse 0 to stop the shooting issue
Jan 03 05:22:13 <dtzWill> zsoc: ?
Jan 03 05:22:31 <dtzWill> zsoc: strace command
Jan 03 05:22:45 <dtzWill> zsoc: i didn't even realize you could attach to a running process :), or at least forgot
Jan 03 05:22:47 <JMyaDaGod> zsoc u still in pizza joint lol JK
Jan 03 05:22:47 <zsoc> dtzWill: you can use it like that? ha
Jan 03 05:22:55 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: no no, :P
Jan 03 05:23:01 <zsoc> i'm actually hacking away at things :P
Jan 03 05:23:04 <dtzWill> zsoc: "you can use it like that?" my thuoghts exactly hehe
Jan 03 05:23:04 <Domingan> sounds like you didn't like the accel for strafe? it would make the controlling on the phone esier
Jan 03 05:23:45 <dtzWill> Domingan: i'm happy to implement it, but not sold.  first pass i'll use a keyboard for strafe since that's easier technically
Jan 03 05:23:58 <JMyaDaGod> zsoc: good luck in progrss wish i could help but i am no help at all lol
Jan 03 05:23:59 <dtzWill> eventually what you said is great, especially if it can be optional
Jan 03 05:28:58 <jacques> is anyone using the native toolchain from optware or is everyone native building in a debian chroot?
Jan 03 05:29:53 <thebitguru> I am using the webos repo, I just updated the version in my service's Makefile, what's the next step?  Will it get built automatically, if so, when?
Jan 03 05:30:21 <zsoc> jacques: i have a native chroot, i also have a gentoo crossdev, and i'm working on a codesorcery chain
Jan 03 05:30:43 <zsoc> thebitguru: if it's something in the regular feed, wait 15 minutes to 1 hour
Jan 03 05:31:12 <zsoc> thebitguru: what repo you working on ?
Jan 03 05:31:28 <thebitguru> zsoc: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=summary
Jan 03 05:31:30 <Jack87-wIRC> dtzWill: what happens if we find a different resolution to fire?
Jan 03 05:31:58 <dtzWill> Jack87-wIRC: different resolution?
Jan 03 05:34:23 <jacques> zsoc: for your native chroot you started with the rootfs in webosdoctor? what toolchain did you install?
Jan 03 05:34:30 <thebitguru> zsoc: http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=services/wolservice.git;a=summary that's the service
Jan 03 05:35:03 <zsoc> jacques: oh no, it's debian. just gcc (build-essential through optware repos)
Jan 03 05:35:54 <Jack87-wIRC> dtzWill: shooting without touch screen?
Jan 03 05:36:22 <bpadalino> well that stinks .. the number of haptic devices in the SDL library is 0 ..
Jan 03 05:36:28 <bpadalino> so i can't make use of palmvibe
Jan 03 05:37:21 <destinal> aha
Jan 03 05:37:47 <destinal> THere are a number of undocumented properties for appinfo.json
Jan 03 05:37:52 <bpadalino> oh yeah ?
Jan 03 05:37:59 <destinal> reading in the LunaSysMgr binary
Jan 03 05:38:30 <destinal> keywords mimeTypes type (and maybe game, or maybe that's a type) appsize requiredMemory visible transparent attributes launchPointId params
Jan 03 05:38:43 <zsoc> bpadalino: check lines starting at 731 of the patch?
Jan 03 05:38:44 <Abyssul> Lots of activity in the channel lately :p
Jan 03 05:39:16 <zsoc> Abyssul: well we're all WHEs
Jan 03 05:39:46 <destinal> I think that requiredMemory is the quota thing nappmgr enforces
Jan 03 05:39:50 <destinal> not sure though
Jan 03 05:40:08 <xcomp> destinal: so how did you guys crack quake?
Jan 03 05:40:26 <zsoc> xcomp: ask dtzWill  :)
Jan 03 05:40:38 <destinal> xcomp: I don't think we cracked quake?  oh you mean built it, yeah that's dtzWill
Jan 03 05:40:46 <xcomp> yeah that's what I meant :)
Jan 03 05:41:26 <bpadalino> zsoc, i guess i need to figure out how to initialize it first ?
Jan 03 05:41:39 <dtzWill> xcomp: working on it some more now. what kind of information are you looking for?
Jan 03 05:41:42 <destinal> oh and "removable" and "appmenu" seem to be properties as well
Jan 03 05:42:22 <xcomp> dtzWill: just what you had to do to get it to build against opengles
Jan 03 05:42:35 <thebitguru> zsoc: oh, actually it seems that the service is already updated :)
Jan 03 05:42:56 <bpadalino> intersting: VibeTonz Error: Failed to initialize API with return code -4
Jan 03 05:43:10 <dtzWill> xcomp: it isn't building against opengles
Jan 03 05:43:14 <dtzWill> xcomp: sorry to disappoint
Jan 03 05:43:24 <dtzWill> xcomp: using sdl
Jan 03 05:43:36 <xcomp> oh ... just libsdl, ic
Jan 03 05:43:47 <dtzWill> xcomp: yep
Jan 03 05:44:14 <dtzWill> hey can someone run http://wdtz.org/files/sdlquake  and tell me what that framerate is like?
Jan 03 05:44:25 <dtzWill> should be about 13--so playable but not amazing
Jan 03 05:44:28 <xcomp> so sdlquake uses pure sdl calls
Jan 03 05:44:35 <dtzWill> but that's up from 6 before
Jan 03 05:46:02 <bpadalino> well that stinks that the palmvibe stuff is no good :(
Jan 03 05:46:13 <xcomp> dtzWill: says missing stuff from a gfx directory
Jan 03 05:47:09 <hborders> is there a preferred way to setup a good linux environment (non-root user, libs, etc) on the pre w/o using gui installers?
Jan 03 05:47:27 <hborders> I'm looking to do development eventually, and I'd like to get set up with the preferred homebrew environment
Jan 03 05:47:51 <bpadalino> hborders: novacom and novaterm are your friends .. look up how to get you setup with that
Jan 03 05:47:53 <hborders> I looked through the wiki, and it looks like the setup scripts are all deprecated in favor of just using preware, etc
Jan 03 05:48:01 <hborders> yeah, i'm connected thru novacom
Jan 03 05:48:03 <destinal> hborders: they still work just fine
Jan 03 05:48:12 <ird_zzZ> it's the same thing just easier.
Jan 03 05:48:12 <ird_zzZ> :D
Jan 03 05:48:45 <destinal> hborders: I still use optware-bootstrap
Jan 03 05:48:52 <hborders> ok
Jan 03 05:49:48 <destinal> hborders:    curl http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/bootstrap/blobs/master/optware-bootstrap.sh | sh    :)
Jan 03 05:50:00 <destinal> s/bootstrap/bootstrap-manual
Jan 03 05:50:04 <hborders> i'm looking at that script right now
Jan 03 05:50:05 <hborders> ok
Jan 03 05:50:11 <hborders> i'm looking at that one now too
Jan 03 05:50:13 <destinal> they renamed it
Jan 03 05:50:16 <hborders> thanks
Jan 03 05:50:21 <xcomp> dtzWill: where to find the gfx files?
Jan 03 05:50:23 <hborders> yeah, i'm just reviewing it before I install
Jan 03 05:50:29 <destinal> hborders: heh, sensible :)
Jan 03 05:50:38 <hborders> you'll forgive me if I don't instantly trust scripts to run as root on my device
Jan 03 05:50:39 <hborders> :)
Jan 03 05:51:06 <dtzWill> xcomp: the quake shareware stuff? either grab it via preware (easier) or unpack it yourself by going...
Jan 03 05:51:08 <hborders> it looks like you guys have a good community going on here.  you're pretty much the reason I got a pre instead of a hero
Jan 03 05:51:23 <dtzWill> xcomp: http://www.libsdl.org/projects/quake/data/quakesw-1.0.6.tar.gz
Jan 03 05:51:25 <xcomp> dtzWill: oh, I need to install packages
Jan 03 05:51:27 <xcomp> ok
Jan 03 05:51:46 <destinal> hborders: yeah, for me #webos-internals was the reason I got a pre instead of an iphone 3gs about a couple weeks after pre launched
Jan 03 05:52:19 <hborders> I'm actually an iphone developer by trade.  :)
Jan 03 05:52:39 <hborders> can't reveal the app yet, its really nothing special.  just a locator for a fortune 500
Jan 03 05:53:12 <destinal> hborders: I got into the original iphone around launch, was a bit involved with some of the original reverse engineering, from-scratch toolchain stuff back when apple still thought webapps were all you needed
Jan 03 05:53:21 <destinal> but my 2g was getting pretty old
Jan 03 05:53:39 <destinal> and physical keyboards and linux are nice to have
Jan 03 05:54:08 <hborders> yeah, you're way more awesome than me.  :)  I'm a pretty awesome java developer, but i'm new to objC/C.  This iphone app is the first objc/c app i've ever done of any size
Jan 03 05:54:20 <hborders> its great to learn this stuff and get closer to the metal
Jan 03 05:54:48 * xcomp still wonders whether he should have chosen a career as a programmer instead of an EE
Jan 03 05:55:04 <destinal> hborders: actually you're probably way better at iphone apps than I am :)   what little I did know back then I've probably forgotten or is outdated
Jan 03 05:55:33 <bpadalino> xcomp, EE is much funner .. :)
Jan 03 05:55:49 <hborders> xcomp: anyone can be a programmer, its never too late
Jan 03 05:56:05 <bpadalino> plus you get these little embedded devices .. and you automatically know how to probe them and figure out what is going on ..
Jan 03 05:56:52 <xcomp> hborders: i used to develop for enlightenment.org back when I was in college
Jan 03 05:57:33 <xcomp> bpadalino: it depends... for me, even after six years as an EE I'm still very much a hacker at heart
Jan 03 05:57:40 <destinal> hborders: what was fun for me about the original iphone stuff was jailbreaking when it was all just getting figured out
Jan 03 05:57:44 <hborders> xcomp: nice
Jan 03 05:58:13 <destinal> and of course there hadn't really been a real smartphone before that IMO, and hacking it = win
Jan 03 05:58:16 <bpadalino> xcomp, i don't think the two are mutually exclusive .. i think the best ee's i know are curious and hackerish people
Jan 03 05:58:34 <xcomp> true
Jan 03 05:58:53 <BoBoYsDaDDa> i know wrong channel but i'm not getting help anywhere else so if anyone could spare the time please. i'm running suse 11.2x64 KDE and i'm trying to compile zsnes (super nintendo emulator) from the 11.1 repository for i586 i have the src.rpm but i can not figure out how to use the rpmbuild command. can someone please help
Jan 03 05:58:54 <hborders> destinal: I'm just enjoying being more of a real hacker.  coding C and working with symbols, real crash logs, and memory dumps is real
Jan 03 05:59:00 <bpadalino> how did they do that?  why did they do that?  can i do it better? .. the first 3 questions i always ask myself
Jan 03 05:59:20 <zsoc> BoBoYsDaDDa: wow, dude, not only wrong channel, that's close to wrong planet
Jan 03 05:59:37 <destinal> hborders: if you enjoy reverse engineering, we could really use someone interested in that
Jan 03 05:59:55 <zsoc> binutils ftw
Jan 03 06:00:00 <BoBoYsDaDDa> lol i admited my wrongness in the beginning zsoc.
Jan 03 06:00:14 <rick_home> hborders  boy could we  -- right now,  especially right now.
Jan 03 06:00:15 <hborders> destinal: for right now, i'm just interested in exploring the capabilities of the system.  but i thought I might try helping to reverse engineer webos doctor
Jan 03 06:00:19 <zsoc> BoBoYsDaDDa: http://rpm.org/max-rpm-snapshot/rpmbuild.8.html ?
Jan 03 06:00:57 <rick_home> most of webos doctor we understand
Jan 03 06:01:05 <hborders> k
Jan 03 06:01:09 <destinal> rick_home: at a superficial level I'd say
Jan 03 06:01:12 <rick_home> unless you're talking about the details of the bootie  rom on the phone
Jan 03 06:01:15 <xcomp> BoBoYsDaDDa: this is like going to Texas and asking for help on how to build a snowman. Even though there are people with experience there, you'd still get laughed off
Jan 03 06:01:16 <rick_home> which we don't
Jan 03 06:01:40 <hborders> i know nothing about reverse engineering roms.  i'm very good at java
Jan 03 06:02:00 <destinal> rick_home: we understand what webos doctor does, but not really the low level technical details or even what it's capable of doing
Jan 03 06:02:04 <xcomp> dtzWill: the quakesw package only contains a single file "pak0.pak". How to unpack?
Jan 03 06:02:21 <destinal> some people know a lot about certain pieces
Jan 03 06:02:24 <BoBoYsDaDDa> thanks zsoc i'm trying to make sense out of all of that. same thing i got when i    info rcmbuild            in terminal
Jan 03 06:02:40 <dtzWill> xcomp: that's it
Jan 03 06:02:56 <dtzWill> xcomp: sdlquake expects a folder 'id1' in its directory, with the pak in it
Jan 03 06:02:56 <xcomp> so just put that file in the same dir as the binary?
Jan 03 06:03:00 <xcomp> oh, i see
Jan 03 06:03:01 <xcomp> ok
Jan 03 06:03:29 <dtzWill> the game should be in good shape, except i need to work out a good control scheme
Jan 03 06:03:40 <rick_home> pak dates back to dos days,
Jan 03 06:03:40 <hborders> rick_home, destinal: i think eventually i'd like to help in some way.  I can probably reverse engineer the whole of webos doctor except the native code (hopefully there is little natvie code there)
Jan 03 06:03:45 <rick_home> stuffit can unpack it.
Jan 03 06:03:54 <dtzWill> spent all day optimizing away haha, but if you can't make it usable .. it's still unusable hehe
Jan 03 06:04:24 <rick_home> PAK files are commonly used to store data loaded by video games, such as Quake, Hexen, and Half Life; may include graphics, objects, textures, sounds, and other game data "packed" into a single file.
Jan 03 06:04:26 <hborders> but right now, i'm just trying to figure out how i can set up an ideal linux environment (non-root user, libs), and still use preware, webos quick install software
Jan 03 06:04:30 <rick_home> wikipedia to the rescue
Jan 03 06:04:33 <xcomp> stuffit ... that's some old school stuff
Jan 03 06:04:51 <rick_home> it dates back WAY before that
Jan 03 06:04:58 <zsoc> i've come to hate strace
Jan 03 06:05:03 <rick_home> it's MS DOS packaging stuff
Jan 03 06:05:23 <xcomp> dtzWill: quake segv'ed here
Jan 03 06:05:24 <Domingan> so what was the final verdict on the controls?
Jan 03 06:05:43 <hborders> also, do you think the touchstone is worth it?  I found ones online for $30US
Jan 03 06:05:45 <destinal> hborders: adding some security  in terms of privilege seperation would be nice, not sure how far you can go but certainly  a good deal more than out of the box
Jan 03 06:05:46 <xcomp> oh cool, there's a gdb binary
Jan 03 06:06:02 <destinal> hborders: I think it's worth it for the backplate alone, and yeah, it's very handy IMO
Jan 03 06:06:12 <dtzWill> xcomp: yes there is, but it really shouldn't do that :(
Jan 03 06:06:14 <xcomp> (gdb) bt
Jan 03 06:06:14 <xcomp> #0  0x00042018 in UDP_Init ()
Jan 03 06:06:21 <dtzWill> hmm i'll look into that
Jan 03 06:06:29 <dtzWill> xcomp: you are running as root, right?
Jan 03 06:06:33 <hborders> destinal: so do preware/quick install apps run as root then?
Jan 03 06:06:44 <xcomp> binary doesn't seem to have a lot of debug info in it
Jan 03 06:06:57 <dtzWill> also there was talk of mytether interferring, is that something that might apply to you?
Jan 03 06:06:57 <destinal> hborders: well your main difficulty there is that LunaSysMgr is the GUI essentially
Jan 03 06:07:06 <destinal> hborders: all one process and it runs as root
Jan 03 06:07:11 <zsoc> hborders: everything runs as root.
Jan 03 06:07:16 <xcomp> mytether?
Jan 03 06:07:19 <dtzWill> xcomp: no, it hasn't crashed in some time for me or the people that were helping me test
Jan 03 06:07:44 <dtzWill> xcomp: the pre tethering service thingy that works on "donations"
Jan 03 06:07:51 <hborders> destinal: so then running the optware manual installer shouldn't interfere with preware stuff
Jan 03 06:07:55 <dtzWill> xcomp: so debugging stuff was removed
Jan 03 06:08:08 <xcomp> i've had it for a while...doesn't seem to work lately anyways
Jan 03 06:08:12 <xcomp> maybe I should delete it
Jan 03 06:08:19 <destinal> hborders: it won't, optware lives in /opt and stays away from the stock system almost entirely
Jan 03 06:08:28 <dtzWill> yeah, although iirc the cahnges it makes might linger? don't mean to spread FUD so maybe ask someone who kws
Jan 03 06:08:28 <zsoc> hborders: we have this down to a pretty good science.. and if something _does_ break we probably know why :)
Jan 03 06:08:29 <sportman> anything else new?
Jan 03 06:08:34 <dtzWill> but that defeintiely was the cause for quake/doom dying
Jan 03 06:09:21 <hborders> destinal: cool cool.  So, I'd just install optware if I wanted to try and build my own linux apps, java services?
Jan 03 06:09:38 <hborders> sorry
Jan 03 06:09:48 <hborders> accidentally left room...damn fingers... :)
Jan 03 06:09:49 * xcomp nukes mytether
Jan 03 06:10:05 <xcomp> hmm, maybe I should reboot
Jan 03 06:10:07 <zsoc> hborders: well the optware repos have over 1,000 linux apps ready to install with ipkg, no building necessary.
Jan 03 06:10:19 <destinal> hborders: mainly if you want an extra distribution giving you the ability to install thousands of handy linux packages on the userland
Jan 03 06:10:36 <rwhitby> hborders: install optware advanced command line installer from Preware
Jan 03 06:10:37 <hborders> but is there an easy way of running them from the gui?
Jan 03 06:10:38 <destinal> hborders: but having such a userland can be very useful when making linux apps and services
Jan 03 06:11:24 <hborders> perhaps i should search the wiki more and read about the architecture of the whole system so i can ask better questions
Jan 03 06:11:53 <destinal> rwhitby: I distrust this newfangled stuff and like the bootstrap script.  also, get off of my lawn.
Jan 03 06:11:55 <destinal> :)
Jan 03 06:12:26 <destinal> I suppose I should try the new installer
Jan 03 06:12:40 <rwhitby> hborders: I'm steering people towards the new installer that I packaged into Preware
Jan 03 06:13:17 <destinal> rwhitby: how advanced is it?  does it prompt for anything?
Jan 03 06:13:30 <rwhitby> destinal: nothing.  root login ssh keys only
Jan 03 06:13:49 * rick_home off to bed.
Jan 03 06:14:00 <hborders> so, here's where i'm at right now:  I just got my pre a week ago.  i downloaded the sdk, and wrote the hello world app.  recommendations for a next step?
Jan 03 06:14:04 <rick_home> gnight all  -- you all seem to accomplish so much more after I fall asleep anyway.
Jan 03 06:14:06 <rwhitby> install openssh-sftp-server, drop your authorized_keys in /home/root/.ssh, and you're done
Jan 03 06:14:26 <zsoc> rwhitby: "ioctl(11, KDGKBENT, 0x9eaeb77c)=0" 100 times a second in a strace. probably a keyboard error? and is there a way to surpress ioctl calls in strace?
Jan 03 06:14:35 <rwhitby> rick_home: that's the only time when I get quality solid hacking time with no interruptions :-)
Jan 03 06:14:36 <rick_home> hborders  if you want to work on the linux/java side,  then do what rwhitby  just said.
Jan 03 06:15:01 <rwhitby> destinal: so, what have we learnt about LunaSysMgr while I've been away
Jan 03 06:15:14 <rick_home> rwhitby  tommorow I will look more at the launch stuff, but I suspect for now I'll just stick with the upstart.  I suspect that the launch call will require signed apps.
Jan 03 06:15:17 <destinal> I found a lot of undocumented appinfo.json stuff but don't know how to apply the knowledge yet
Jan 03 06:15:18 <hborders> so first i need to install preware, and then i need to find the installer for optware inside of preware?
Jan 03 06:15:52 <rick_home> destinal  can you dump the undocumented apinfo json stuff in the wiki or in an email to me and let me see it?
Jan 03 06:15:59 <rick_home> rboatright@gmail
Jan 03 06:16:06 <zsoc> hborders: finding things in preware is flawless. it finds things for you.
Jan 03 06:16:14 <destinal> rick_home: keywords mimeTypes type (and maybe game, or maybe that's a type) appsize requiredMemory visible transparent attributes launchPointId params Jan
Jan 03 06:16:22 <destinal> s/Jan//g
Jan 03 06:16:22 <infobot> destinal meant: rick_home: keywords mimeTypes type (and maybe game, or maybe that's a type) appsize requiredMemory visible transparent attributes launchPointId params
Jan 03 06:16:32 <rick_home> nost listening.
Jan 03 06:16:33 <rick_home> not
Jan 03 06:16:36 <rick_home> off to bed.
Jan 03 06:16:39 <zsoc> lol
Jan 03 06:16:41 <rick_home> please pretty please email
Jan 03 06:16:43 <rick_home> please?
Jan 03 06:16:45 <rick_home> gngight
Jan 03 06:16:47 <destinal> k gn
Jan 03 06:16:51 <hborders> zsoc: ha.  ok, i'll give preware a try.  worst case, i suppose i can always wipe my pre if screw things up
Jan 03 06:17:04 <rick_sleep> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Jan 03 06:17:04 <zsoc> hborders: impossible. really.
Jan 03 06:17:16 <destinal> hborders: preware is solid.  everyone uses it happily :)
Jan 03 06:17:26 <zsoc> hborders: i don't know the numbers, but i wouldn't be surprised if preware has 10,000 active users, and 95% of them know less than you about linux
Jan 03 06:18:07 <destinal> zsoc: aw, and you spoiled my statisticless (but mostly accurate) propaganda with numbers
Jan 03 06:18:15 <hborders> zsoc: ha.  i'll try and not screw it up then.  I seem to have a knack for not following directions because i think i know what i'm doing.  I wouldn't want to make you guys look bad
Jan 03 06:18:18 <hborders> :P
Jan 03 06:18:34 <zsoc> hborders: no one follows instructions. it's made that way.
Jan 03 06:18:40 <zsoc> really, i can't even make this up
Jan 03 06:18:51 <zsoc> guys at best buy install preware before they sell phones to people
Jan 03 06:18:53 <zsoc> i saw it happen
Jan 03 06:18:57 <destinal> zsoc: wow
Jan 03 06:18:57 <hborders> ha
Jan 03 06:19:18 <hborders> this does look easier than installing custom roms on a winmo phone
Jan 03 06:19:18 <dtzWill> zsoc: hahaha awesome
Jan 03 06:19:34 <destinal> DOOM would be an extra selling point, yeah?
Jan 03 06:19:34 <hborders> i did that a few times with my last one (htc touch pro)
Jan 03 06:20:53 <hborders> running webosquickinstall.jar
Jan 03 06:20:54 <bpadalino> if someone is interested in seeing an OpenGLES example: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/bkdtihbu5jwe0czpx0fng
Jan 03 06:21:04 <EdLin> oh, cool. I installed nethack. That's even better than doom. ;-)
Jan 03 06:21:36 <zsoc> bpadalino: does that compile?
Jan 03 06:22:00 <bpadalino> indeed it does
Jan 03 06:22:16 <zsoc> bpadalino: ompload the binary please?
Jan 03 06:22:45 <bpadalino> the binary is a little screwy due to the way i linked .. but if you place stuff in the right locations, it will run
Jan 03 06:23:31 <zsoc> bpadalino: i'll figure it out :P
Jan 03 06:23:36 <bpadalino> http://omploader.org/vMzU4bw/newtest
Jan 03 06:23:39 <zsoc> bpadalino: did you write that?
Jan 03 06:23:50 <bpadalino> taken from a maemo example and modifies
Jan 03 06:23:53 <bpadalino> modified for sdl
Jan 03 06:24:13 <bpadalino> grabbed originally from: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=436886 (simpleglv2.tgz)
Jan 03 06:25:16 <bpadalino> i also have no mouse input yet
Jan 03 06:26:40 <zsoc> oooooooook i'm getting permission denied? wtf
Jan 03 06:26:46 <bpadalino> chmod 755 it
Jan 03 06:26:49 <zsoc> i did
Jan 03 06:26:50 <zsoc> oh wait
Jan 03 06:26:52 <zsoc> ha
Jan 03 06:27:26 <zsoc> bpadalino: ooooohhh. we don't have your libPiranha thingy
Jan 03 06:27:35 <bpadalino> libPiranha thingy ?
Jan 03 06:27:39 <zsoc> the header
Jan 03 06:27:41 <bpadalino> we're just linking her ..
Jan 03 06:27:48 <bpadalino> we don't need no stinkin headers
Jan 03 06:27:56 <bpadalino> not trying to rebuild libSDL anymore :(
Jan 03 06:28:14 <zsoc> bpadalino: but we don't have it. where is it from?
Jan 03 06:28:34 <bpadalino> you need to ln -s /usr/lib ./usr i am pretty sure due to the way i compiled and linked it myself :(
Jan 03 06:28:52 * zsoc scratches his head
Jan 03 06:28:56 <zsoc> doesn't seem right
Jan 03 06:29:03 <destinal> bpadalino: building with  -I/usr/local/include/SDL -lSDL -lGLESv2   seems to do it
Jan 03 06:29:06 <bpadalino> do you get an error about libPiranha ?
Jan 03 06:29:37 <bpadalino> destinal: yeah boy did i screw up my build environment .. trust me
Jan 03 06:29:43 <bpadalino> but it works well enough to link together ..
Jan 03 06:29:52 <zsoc> bpadalino: i got it, just needed to run the file in /
Jan 03 06:29:59 <bpadalino> there you go
Jan 03 06:30:21 <rwhitby> bpadalino: --rpath is what you want
Jan 03 06:30:36 <bpadalino> rwhitby: yeah, definitely didn't do that right
Jan 03 06:31:28 <bpadalino> destinal: did you get it built in your environment ?
Jan 03 06:32:29 <destinal> bpadalino: yup
Jan 03 06:32:37 <bpadalino> do you see the trippy triangle ?
Jan 03 06:32:39 <destinal> I built it natively on the pre in a debian chroot
Jan 03 06:33:00 <destinal> bpadalino: yes, very psychedelic
Jan 03 06:33:11 <bpadalino> my pre is telling me i need to go to sleep now :(
Jan 03 06:33:55 <bpadalino> overall disappointed by the lack of haptic feedback support .. but nice to see it's a start i guess
Jan 03 06:34:11 <bpadalino> glad the gles stuff seems to work and is all there .. should make stuff nice ..
Jan 03 06:34:57 <destinal> bpadalino: nice POC
Jan 03 06:35:01 <zsoc> bpadalino: nice work
Jan 03 06:35:04 <xcomp> dtzWill: ok ... I removed mytether and still getting the segv
Jan 03 06:35:35 <destinal> bpadalino: interestingly it still runs in a card view but very very slowly
Jan 03 06:36:04 <bpadalino> very interesting
Jan 03 06:36:06 <bpadalino> i thought it paused it
Jan 03 06:36:15 <bpadalino> never kept it in a card view for that long
Jan 03 06:36:26 <hborders> ok, i got webosinstaller going, and i got preware going.  do i want the optware bootstrap or the optware advanced linux command line installer?
Jan 03 06:36:35 <bpadalino> http://opensource.dylogic.com/DOGLESS/Articles/About.html - might be interesting for people who want to port straight SDL OpenGL programs maybe ?
Jan 03 06:36:35 <jacques> I wonder at the mechanism of slowing down the cards.
Jan 03 06:36:50 <zsoc> bpadalino: although i must say, there is a severe lack of 3d there ;)
Jan 03 06:36:57 <bpadalino> zsoc, :(
Jan 03 06:37:12 <bpadalino> zsoc, feel free to add roations and translations ..
Jan 03 06:37:17 <bpadalino> rotations rather
Jan 03 06:37:31 <bpadalino> testmouse.c should give a good idea how to gather mouse input
Jan 03 06:37:35 <bpadalino> and figure out deltas
Jan 03 06:38:13 <bpadalino> destinal: surprisingly, top shows the executable using more CPU time when it's in card view as opposed to when it's full screen
Jan 03 06:38:15 <rwhitby> hborders: the latter will pull in the former by dependencies
Jan 03 06:38:24 <hborders> well done
Jan 03 06:38:44 <rwhitby> hborders: the former just mounts /opt
Jan 03 06:39:03 <rwhitby> the latter installs /opt/bin/ipkg-opt for getting access to the nslu2-linux.org feeds
Jan 03 06:39:17 <hborders> rwhitby: I just tweeted this, but i'll say it here too.  you guys have built a really kick-ass system here
Jan 03 06:39:36 <hborders> I just hope this doesn't become the next newton
Jan 03 06:39:51 <jacques> maybe when it's in a card, it's being rendered offscreen and scaled to the card
Jan 03 06:39:53 <destinal> bpadalino: yeah, I think the scaling luna is doing is really resource hungry
Jan 03 06:39:56 <destinal> not sure what it is exactly
Jan 03 06:40:16 <zsoc> yes that's exactly what's happening i believe
Jan 03 06:40:23 <bpadalino> destinal: but i would think luna would do that .. and not my process ?
Jan 03 06:40:32 <destinal> bpadalino: ah, it's the process?  hmm
Jan 03 06:40:33 <bpadalino> i guess maybe not
Jan 03 06:40:49 <rwhitby> hborders: the main reason to use the preware stuff instead of the old bootstrap script is that I now use the former, so it's guaranteed to stay working
Jan 03 06:41:11 <destinal> bpadalino: there's some IPC that happens between the library and luna
Jan 03 06:41:29 <destinal> so maybe luna is telling it how to scale, and what it's having your app do is ineffecient
Jan 03 06:41:52 <hborders> rwhitby: so i just installed the optware command line tools.  i'm assuming they only do my any good if i ssh in or install a terminal on preware
Jan 03 06:42:26 <bpadalino> maybe
Jan 03 06:42:46 <bpadalino> ok, night time for real .. more 3d in the morning!
Jan 03 06:43:01 <jacques> nice job bpadalino
Jan 03 06:44:27 <MiX-MaN> yo
Jan 03 06:44:29 <rwhitby> hborders: yeah, you can install the other stuff that's in Preware without doing so (e.g. the lighttpd web server), but you really should install openssh-sftp-server, and then put your authorized_keys file in place
Jan 03 06:44:57 <rwhitby> destinal: PmLogCtl set LunaSysMgr debug
Jan 03 06:45:27 <destinal> rwhitby: ah, nice
Jan 03 06:45:33 <rwhitby> I just remembered about PmLogCtl - I was using it the other day for mapping out com.palm.netroute
Jan 03 06:45:39 <rwhitby> OOHHHH
Jan 03 06:45:46 <hborders> rwhitby: it looked like optware needed dropbear installed.  dropbear said that it killed any password auth
Jan 03 06:46:00 <hborders> rwhitby: so am i screwed from novaterm now?
Jan 03 06:46:15 <jacques> novaterm bypasses all that
Jan 03 06:46:22 <zsoc> novaterm is supahacks
Jan 03 06:46:36 <rwhitby> destinal: you said "game" for type, right?
Jan 03 06:46:51 <destinal> rwhitby: it's either type game or a new property called game
Jan 03 06:46:52 <rwhitby> let me try that ....
Jan 03 06:47:09 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:32:18.045349Z [337] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: int IpcServer::launchNativeProcess(const std::string&, const char*, char* const*, int): Process org.webosinternals.sdlquake (/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/index.html) launched with pid: 1762
Jan 03 06:47:12 <zsoc> I find "novacom -t open tty://" will pretty much get into any webos device every even remotely near a usb cable
Jan 03 06:47:20 <destinal> rwhitby: very nice
Jan 03 06:47:31 <zsoc> rwhitby: waaaaiiiiittt a second. i see what you did there
Jan 03 06:47:33 <destinal> just change the name from index.html to something useful
Jan 03 06:47:56 <destinal> rwhitby: it was type game you used?
Jan 03 06:47:59 <jacques> rwhitby: ?? what did you just do ??
Jan 03 06:48:11 <zsoc> jacques: he just won the game
Jan 03 06:48:12 <destinal> I did that earlier but didn't have logging up high enough
Jan 03 06:48:23 <destinal> PmLogCtl set LunaSysMgr debug   for the win
Jan 03 06:48:24 <rwhitby> destinal: no change
Jan 03 06:48:29 <xcomp> zsoc: not in my case
Jan 03 06:48:35 <rwhitby> oh, maybe I need a rescan
Jan 03 06:48:44 <xcomp> i'm going to have to try a new cable soon
Jan 03 06:48:54 <xcomp> because novacom doesn't work for me anymore
Jan 03 06:48:57 <destinal> rwhitby: well it's launching native process as opposed to a web app right?
Jan 03 06:48:57 <zsoc> xcomp: well that's assuming your novacom is installed properly ;)
Jan 03 06:49:02 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:37:29.688201Z [649] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: void ApplicationManager::postLaunchPointChange(const LaunchPoint*, const std::string&): Posting LaunchPoint change { "id": "org.webosinternals.sdlquake", "version": "1.0.9", "appId": "org.webosinternals.sdlquake", "vendor": "WebOS Internals", "vendorUrl": "", "size": 20316160, "removable": true, "launchPointId": "org.webosinternals.sdlquake_default
Jan 03 06:49:04 <rwhitby> ", "title": "Quake", "appmenu": "Quake", "icon": "\/media\/cryptofs\/apps\/usr\/palm\/applications\/org.webosinternals.sdlquake\/icon.png", "change": "updated" }
Jan 03 06:49:09 <xcomp> zsoc: last time this happened to me i fixed it by buying a new cable
Jan 03 06:49:11 <rwhitby> rescan does something indeed
Jan 03 06:49:30 <jacques> that looks ... good
Jan 03 06:49:42 <rwhitby> bingo
Jan 03 06:49:43 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:38:05.967041Z [685] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: int IpcServer::launchNativeProcess(const std::string&, const char*, char* const*, int): Process org.webosinternals.sdlquake (/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/bin/quake) launched with pid: 1770
Jan 03 06:49:53 <rwhitby> but no card
Jan 03 06:50:04 <destinal> well there are some other directives we may need
Jan 03 06:50:04 <rwhitby> next line is 2010-01-03T02:38:06.109741Z [685] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: void IpcServer::childProcessDied(GPid, gint): pid: 1770, status 256
Jan 03 06:50:13 <zsoc> broken
Jan 03 06:50:14 <destinal> requiredMemory for one
Jan 03 06:50:22 <destinal> it may have decided you exceeded your quota of 0
Jan 03 06:50:33 <jacques> unless 0 means no quota
Jan 03 06:50:33 <hborders> rwhitby: the show wifi ssid patch is not working on my pre.  I just downloaded it, and restarted luna.
Jan 03 06:50:40 <rwhitby> root@palm-webos-device:/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake# ./bin/quake
Jan 03 06:50:41 <rwhitby>  
Jan 03 06:50:43 <rwhitby> FindFile: can't find gfx/pop.lmp
Jan 03 06:50:45 <rwhitby> Playing shareware version.
Jan 03 06:50:47 <rwhitby> FindFile: can't find gfx.wad
Jan 03 06:50:48 <zsoc> hborders: reconnect to your wifi network?
Jan 03 06:50:49 <rwhitby> Error: W_LoadWadFile: couldn't load gfx.wad
Jan 03 06:50:54 <rwhitby> I reckon it's PWD
Jan 03 06:51:05 <zsoc> rwhitby: i'm sure its PWD
Jan 03 06:51:20 <jacques> hborders: you already connected to wifi? if so, turn off wifi and turn it back on
Jan 03 06:51:28 <destinal> rwhitby: what about launchPointId
Jan 03 06:51:37 <destinal> maybe that translates to working dir
Jan 03 06:51:46 <jacques> there's an initial conditions issue
Jan 03 06:51:49 <destinal> or maybe it's binary name
Jan 03 06:51:50 <zsoc|away> ok, well much was accomplished today. night all
Jan 03 06:52:18 <rwhitby> let's try a wrapper script
Jan 03 06:52:19 <destinal> rwhitby: does doom have params?
Jan 03 06:52:19 <hborders> jarques: worky.  thanks
Jan 03 06:52:31 <rwhitby> remember to rescan
Jan 03 06:52:35 <destinal> maybe we can specify where the wad is
Jan 03 06:53:39 <rwhitby> bingo
Jan 03 06:54:28 <destinal> rwhitby: script or params?
Jan 03 06:54:49 <rwhitby> destinal: script
Jan 03 06:54:52 <zsoc|away> stop fixing things so quick i can't keep up
Jan 03 06:54:57 <rwhitby> cd ... ; ./quake
Jan 03 06:55:22 <rwhitby> gentlemen, we have native launch
Jan 03 06:55:50 <destinal> rwhitby: so all that work on upstart wasn't needed for this (not that it's not useful for other things)
Jan 03 06:55:51 <destinal> :)
Jan 03 06:55:57 <dtzWill> :D
Jan 03 06:56:05 <dtzWill> rwhitby: congrats :D
Jan 03 06:56:10 <jacques> rwhitby: so we can launch native apps by sending a message(?) to lunasysmgr(?)
Jan 03 06:56:20 <destinal> rwhitby: I had this feeling about appinfo.json  (remembering type = web)
Jan 03 06:56:29 <rwhitby> jacques: type = game in appinfo (found by destinal)
Jan 03 06:56:47 <jacques> heh, that type really says something.
Jan 03 06:56:50 <rwhitby> jacques: main = relative path in appinfo (found by PmLogCtl on LunaSysMgr
Jan 03 06:57:00 <jacques> maybe palm does care about games
Jan 03 06:57:02 <jacques> ;-)
Jan 03 06:57:03 <dtzWill> yeah it really does indicate some rather exciting things :)
Jan 03 06:57:23 <dtzWill> well not /just/ games, native could help in a number of departments
Jan 03 06:57:26 <rwhitby> freakout: you around?
Jan 03 06:57:26 <dtzWill> i wonder how they'll play it
Jan 03 06:57:29 <destinal> it also means we'll have non-games using type=game  but hehe
Jan 03 06:57:57 <rwhitby> destinal: did you see any other types
Jan 03 06:58:03 <destinal> rwhitby: negative
Jan 03 06:58:23 <destinal> rwhitby: in fact I didn't even find web.  I suspect it's just game or anything else at the moment
Jan 03 06:58:25 <JackieRipper> good morning
Jan 03 06:58:53 <rwhitby> destinal: no, I think web is required, cause we used to use that for ipkg section and things stopped working
Jan 03 06:59:06 <rwhitby> JackieRipper: g/day
Jan 03 06:59:16 <destinal> hmmm, well the string wasn't near the others
Jan 03 06:59:20 <destinal> so maybe it's elsewhere
Jan 03 06:59:43 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:42:11.204528Z [930] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: int IpcServer::launchNativeProcess(const std::string&, const char*, char* const*, int): Process org.webosinternals.sdlquake (/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/quake.sh) launched with pid: 1781
Jan 03 06:59:53 <rwhitby> that's where the script is launched
Jan 03 07:00:02 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:42:13.784271Z [933] palm-webos-device user.warning LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: virtual void IpcServer::clientConnected(int, const std::string&, PIpcChannel*) (69): Client connected org.webosinternals.sdlquake (1782)
Jan 03 07:00:11 <destinal> I'm interested in these unknown properties in appinfo:   mimeTypes appsize requiredMemory transparent  attributes launchPointId params
Jan 03 07:00:18 <dtzWill> might have to make quake easier to make it less frustrating haha
Jan 03 07:00:20 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:42:17.472930Z [936] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: void IpcClientHost::onPrepareAddWindow(int, int, int) (85): Attached to shared buffer with key: 98307, width: 320, height: 480
Jan 03 07:00:33 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ooo
Jan 03 07:00:45 <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:42:17.473358Z [936] palm-webos-device user.warning LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: MemoryWatcher: Monitored native process # 1782 exceeded its memory quota. ProcMem = 3, restriction = 0, violation count = 0
Jan 03 07:01:24 <destinal> rwhitby: also, you know all the work we did on ipkgservice and confirmation?  kind of redundant now, well, only if someone actually launches the new icon
Jan 03 07:01:45 <destinal> you can have that mount -o remount,rw; rm -rf /   app you always wanted
Jan 03 07:02:18 <destinal> s/nt/nt \//
Jan 03 07:03:16 <destinal> further, we don't actually need any of the advanced homebrew stuff
Jan 03 07:03:28 <rwhitby> destinal: blasphemy
Jan 03 07:03:37 <destinal> we could just have firstuse scripts of type game that fixup the appinfo.json after use
Jan 03 07:03:52 <rwhitby> destinal: are you thinking what I'm thinking?
Jan 03 07:04:06 <destinal> palm-install preware?
Jan 03 07:04:11 <rwhitby> PREWARE INSTALLER IN APP CATALOG
Jan 03 07:04:19 <destinal> hehe
Jan 03 07:04:26 <JackieRipper> is it me or is this a major security flaw?
Jan 03 07:04:30 <destinal> they'll probably deny it but why not
Jan 03 07:04:44 <destinal> at very least palm-install preware saves us the trouble of devmode
Jan 03 07:04:46 <JackieRipper> oops, I missed destinal pointing that out
Jan 03 07:04:57 <destinal> errr of a root launcher I mean
Jan 03 07:05:31 <destinal> no need for an installer if you have sdk or filecoaster
Jan 03 07:05:39 <egaudet> so we can run anything out of a normal ipk now
Jan 03 07:05:45 <destinal> egaudet: yup
Jan 03 07:06:11 <egaudet> and security goes out the window
Jan 03 07:06:27 <destinal> egaudet: well, it puts us on level ground with windows mobile
Jan 03 07:06:41 <destinal> if you download and run malware, so sorry, total pwnage
Jan 03 07:06:51 <egaudet> lol
Jan 03 07:07:10 <destinal> I figured this was basically inevitable for games
Jan 03 07:07:18 <destinal> unless they signed them and validated at runtime
Jan 03 07:07:25 <egaudet> yea
Jan 03 07:07:50 <jacques> LunaSysMgr definitely runs game type native apps as root?
Jan 03 07:07:52 <egaudet> well we can get Preware to remain installed/usable after a webos doctor now
Jan 03 07:08:21 <destinal> jacques: I can't see it working any other way but have not confirmed euid
Jan 03 07:08:45 <destinal> egaudet: how's that?
Jan 03 07:08:58 <jacques> there is a games user in /etc/passwd ;-)
Jan 03 07:09:12 <destinal> jacques: I think that's standard OE
Jan 03 07:09:29 <jacques> yeah I was half-way joking :-)
Jan 03 07:10:32 <egaudet>  /media/internal doesn't get wiped on doctor
Jan 03 07:10:37 <destinal> egaudet: and regarding total pwnage, palm intends for you to only be downloading catalog apps, which mitigates the downloading malware issue for aunt minnie
Jan 03 07:11:01 <destinal> we homebrew users will just have to watch out
Jan 03 07:11:10 <egaudet> destinal, what are they going to do for trust?
Jan 03 07:11:15 <jacques> there's always the doctor
Jan 03 07:11:20 <egaudet> People will submit closed binaries to the app cat
Jan 03 07:11:41 <destinal> egaudet: probably revoke offenders after the fact
Jan 03 07:11:54 <egaudet> still a little scary
Jan 03 07:11:54 <destinal> and we have no idea what their plans are to start accepting games
Jan 03 07:11:58 <egaudet> yea
Jan 03 07:12:09 <destinal> we should start submitting games though
Jan 03 07:12:12 <destinal> see what happens
Jan 03 07:12:27 <rwhitby> has the cheap registration ended yet?
Jan 03 07:12:44 <rwhitby> BTW, I think out upstart service launches the game quicker ...
Jan 03 07:12:51 <rwhitby> s/out/our/
Jan 03 07:12:51 <infobot> rwhitby meant: BTW, I think our upstart service launches the game quicker ...
Jan 03 07:13:19 <gkatsev> so, was the multiple doom windows support added just because the iphone cant do it?
Jan 03 07:13:29 <rwhitby> gkatsev: of course
Jan 03 07:13:41 <gkatsev> ok. just making sure, lol
Jan 03 07:13:53 <gkatsev> i was thinking, perhaps there is another reason.
Jan 03 07:14:06 <gkatsev> but i guess it's good enough
Jan 03 07:14:10 <destinal> and of course because the app shouldn't be less functional than doing it from command line where you could launch multiple
Jan 03 07:14:27 <rwhitby> heh, can't launch multiple quakes with appinfo type game
Jan 03 07:14:29 <gkatsev> lol
Jan 03 07:14:46 <gkatsev> working on quake on the pre now?
Jan 03 07:14:47 <destinal> rwhitby: I'm sure that's a feature :)
Jan 03 07:15:32 <rwhitby> Palm @ CES: "Look, we can launch Quake with an icon!!".  Rick in front row: "So what, we can launch *multiple* quakes with icon via upstartmgr!"
Jan 03 07:15:45 <gkatsev> lol
Jan 03 07:15:46 <jacques> can you launch multiple different processes with type "game" ?
Jan 03 07:15:49 <destinal> and of course there's no reason for game to actually be SDL, you could easily have a "game" that launches a script to do stuff including luna-send to launch a regular mojo app once ready
Jan 03 07:16:21 <gkatsev> would porting dos box to webos be feasible?
Jan 03 07:16:45 <destinal> gkatsev: probably very easy
Jan 03 07:17:08 <gkatsev> destinal: cuz bumpy's arcade fantasy seems like a great game to have tilt controls.
Jan 03 07:17:21 <gkatsev> of course, it might be easier to just recreate the game, lol
Jan 03 07:17:47 <gkatsev> ooh, port MAME to webos?
Jan 03 07:18:39 <destinal> :)  it's just a linux box now
Jan 03 07:19:09 <destinal> so long as your app is SDL, alsa, etc you're set
Jan 03 07:19:13 <gkatsev> actually, yeah, you could probably install dosbox on it as is. just need a front end
Jan 03 07:20:45 <gkatsev> and probably the same for MAME, actually.
Jan 03 07:21:15 <gkatsev> heh, MAME on the pre and then the pre will have largest collection of games compared to other mobile platforms, lol
Jan 03 07:22:11 <gkatsev> what other games are being ported to webos?
Jan 03 07:23:35 <destinal> gkatsev: I was playing with ScummVM but I ran out of space on my chroot
Jan 03 07:23:49 <destinal> looks like it should be very easy
Jan 03 07:24:11 <gkatsev> cool
Jan 03 07:24:27 <destinal> i feel kind of bad calling ./configure && make   "porting"   :)
Jan 03 07:24:40 <rwhitby> destinal: well, we still have 30 hours to keep to the 1 game every 2 days pace ...
Jan 03 07:24:53 <gkatsev> heh, "port" dosbox, mame and scummvm and webos will truly beat the iphone in terms of gaming, lol
Jan 03 07:24:54 <destinal> rwhitby: I think we'll pick up that pace dramatically
Jan 03 07:25:15 <destinal> only question is, upstart method or official method going forward
Jan 03 07:25:34 <gkatsev> destinal: whats the official method?
Jan 03 07:25:44 <gkatsev> the way regular apps are launched?
Jan 03 07:25:52 <destinal> gkatsev: you just set type=game and main=path to binary
Jan 03 07:26:11 <destinal> it's the palm official method that we figured out digging through lunasysmgr
Jan 03 07:26:19 <gkatsev> heh
Jan 03 07:26:30 <freakout> rwhitby: what'd I miss?
Jan 03 07:26:51 <rwhitby> freakout: appinfo, type=game, main=path
Jan 03 07:26:53 <rwhitby> boom
Jan 03 07:27:05 <gkatsev> this is why even if it was cheaper (plan wise) to get an iphone, id probably stick with webos anyway.
Jan 03 07:27:22 <freakout> oho. intriguing
Jan 03 07:27:24 <gkatsev> probably shouldve switched to wifi before installing quake, lol
Jan 03 07:27:47 <destinal> freakout: no more upstart hacks required, we figured out what is apparently the right way
Jan 03 07:28:19 * freakout is reading the scrollback now...
Jan 03 07:28:32 <destinal> freakout: unfortunately any ipkg you install and then run could run commands as root
Jan 03 07:28:38 <rwhitby> freakout: I found "native" looking at strings in LunaSysMgr.  destinal later found "game".  I remembered PmLogCtl, and tried type=game, then saw index.html trying to be executed. I changed index.html to bin/quake, but it didn't work. Put in a wrapper script to set the CWD correctly, and bingo.
Jan 03 07:29:13 <destinal> rwhitby: I'd been saying for a long time it was going to be appinfo.json, I think nobody believed me :)
Jan 03 07:29:14 <freakout> So this is how Palm intends to do games themselves, eh?
Jan 03 07:29:24 <destinal> freakout: I'm sure it's how need for speed works
Jan 03 07:29:35 <Jack87> gkatsev: dtzWill is hard at work on quake
Jan 03 07:30:05 <gkatsev> looks great
Jan 03 07:30:28 <rwhitby> wow, a fileCoaster resurgence
Jan 03 07:30:32 <destinal> we always knew that the startup technique was a workaround until we figured out the supported launch method
Jan 03 07:30:43 <destinal> I didn't bet on it being so soon though
Jan 03 07:31:20 <gkatsev> ooh, v1.0.1 for gdial pro
Jan 03 07:31:26 <Jack87> gkatsev: not playable yet but soon enough
Jan 03 07:31:48 <freakout> So - would this also mean potentially *any* native Linux app could be launched if you set type=game?
Jan 03 07:32:14 <destinal> freakout: yes but well, if you want to see it on the screen it needs to be SDL-based
Jan 03 07:32:38 <gkatsev> ooh, that means that we could get vlc working, no?
Jan 03 07:32:39 <rwhitby> freakout: I'll have a post up soon for you to reference
Jan 03 07:32:46 <freakout> *nodnod*
Jan 03 07:32:49 <freakout> rwhitby: cool
Jan 03 07:32:54 <destinal> gkatsev: compiling dosbox now
Jan 03 07:32:55 <gkatsev> or mplayer? since it can output to sdl?
Jan 03 07:33:40 <gkatsev> destinal: cool. the next step after we get all these "ported" would be to add tilt controls. no clue how easy or hard or where to start with that.
Jan 03 07:33:41 * xcomp is sad that he can't run quake still
Jan 03 07:34:03 <destinal> gkatsev: well for tilt controls the accelerometer is a joystick in SDL
Jan 03 07:34:11 <gkatsev> so exciting. 1.3.5 was a nice christmas/newyear present
Jan 03 07:34:19 <dtzWill> xcomp: i'm sorry about that; the same binary works for others and i don't have any immediate ideas, unfortunately
Jan 03 07:34:22 <gkatsev> destinal: so, not that hard?
Jan 03 07:34:47 <destinal> gkatsev: it should be pretty easy.
Jan 03 07:34:51 <gkatsev> cool
Jan 03 07:35:15 <xcomp> dtzWill: do you get this? FindFile: can't find gfx/pop.lmp
Jan 03 07:35:28 <gkatsev> im gonna have the whole of next week free. so, ill definitely be able to help with w/e
Jan 03 07:35:29 <xcomp> when you run it
Jan 03 07:37:29 <Robi_> I think I'm gonna have to doctor this phone
Jan 03 07:37:54 <Robi_> otherwise it's a hw issue
Jan 03 07:38:06 <Robi_> but first how to back it up properly
Jan 03 07:38:08 <JackieRipper> gkatsev: mplayer has a sdl flag in gentoo's portage, so I'd assume yes
Jan 03 07:38:47 <gkatsev> JackieRipper: well, even standard mplayer, has the -vo sdl. or something like that, or outputting video to sdl
Jan 03 07:38:52 <destinal> someone also wrote an sdl-vnc but it looks to be ancient
Jan 03 07:39:30 <gkatsev> how do i add the alpha/testing feed to preware?
Jan 03 07:39:36 <destinal> non-sdl software could be ported to use an sdl-based framebuffer, probably not hard for those who are better at developing graphics applications than I am
Jan 03 07:42:26 <destinal> Robi_: you could always just tar up everything to /media/internal and copy it off over scp or USB
Jan 03 07:43:21 <Robi_> destinal: yea I was thinking rsync
Jan 03 07:43:40 <Robi_> but tgz has it's purpose
Jan 03 07:43:54 <Robi_> i'm also not sure I want all the cruft I have in there now
Jan 03 07:44:16 <tmzt> destinal: non-sdl?
Jan 03 07:44:18 <Robi_> just the good stuff like contacts/records of calls, and contact groupings
Jan 03 07:44:28 <Robi_> and apps
Jan 03 07:44:42 <destinal> tmzt: well you'd be porting non-sdl app to sdl and then to pre
Jan 03 07:44:49 <tmzt> a right
Jan 03 07:44:59 <xcomp> i'm pretty sure you can compile mplayer with only sdl output available
Jan 03 07:44:59 <tmzt> unless it's dfb or something similar I wouldn't try
Jan 03 07:45:11 <destinal> right, I was thinking dfb especially
Jan 03 07:45:20 <tmzt> still waiting on the X port :)
Jan 03 07:45:32 <tmzt> not the rootless one, just a simple fb
Jan 03 07:45:33 <xcomp> now ... an SDL X server
Jan 03 07:45:40 <destinal> tmzt: I'm still building natively on my pre, do you have any idea how long that would take to compile? :)
Jan 03 07:45:44 <tmzt> like, Xephyr based mamybe
Jan 03 07:45:46 <gkatsev> anyway, need to get to sleep. good night and good luck
Jan 03 07:45:54 <tmzt> once ported?
Jan 03 07:45:56 <tmzt> oh
Jan 03 07:46:04 <tmzt> did you try distcc as some suggested?
Jan 03 07:46:07 <destinal> tmzt: I need to start using distcc
Jan 03 07:46:09 <destinal> not yet
Jan 03 07:46:18 <tmzt> also, sbox2
Jan 03 07:46:24 <tmzt> but it's really debian focused
Jan 03 07:46:31 <jmyaonpalmpre> what's up guys? damn I figured everyone was sleeping
Jan 03 07:46:57 <destinal> at this rate dosbox will take forever to build
Jan 03 07:47:09 <gkatsev> destinal: are you building on the pre?
Jan 03 07:47:29 <destinal> gkatsev: yes
Jan 03 07:47:41 <Robi_> time for a shower while the tgz runs
Jan 03 07:47:43 <gkatsev> wouldnt it be faster to build on the emulator?
Jan 03 07:48:10 <destinal> gkatsev: yes but the emulator is x86, I don't see the point there
Jan 03 07:48:19 <gkatsev> ah, ok
Jan 03 07:48:34 <gkatsev> well, i guess you could do cross-compile, but i guess thats annoying
Jan 03 07:48:57 <destinal> gkatsev: well, it's somewhat challenging with things that use autoconf
Jan 03 07:49:10 <destinal> I'd have to change tests around
Jan 03 07:49:19 <gkatsev> ok. havent done cross-compiling ever, so... idk.
Jan 03 07:49:33 <gkatsev> anyway, off to sleep. gl with dosbox, let me know how it goes.
Jan 03 07:49:40 <destinal> k, good night
Jan 03 07:49:50 <tmzt> gl for what?
Jan 03 07:50:10 <gkatsev> gl = goodluck
Jan 03 07:50:34 <xcomp> that it is
Jan 03 07:51:38 <jacques> the cool thing about distcc is you can run the configure and link native, but the object compiles cross
Jan 03 07:51:43 <freakout> so, rwhitby, destinal - reading back on that it appears these native launches don't work in cards?
Jan 03 07:52:17 <rwhitby> freakout: quake launches in a card
Jan 03 07:52:24 <freakout> <rwhitby> 2010-01-03T02:38:05.967041Z [685] palm-webos-device user.notice LunaSysMgr: {LunaSysMgr}: int IpcServer::launchNativeProcess(const std::string&, const char*, char* const*, int): Process org.webosinternals.sdlquake (/media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/bin/quake) launched with pid: 1770
Jan 03 07:52:24 <freakout> <rwhitby> but no card
Jan 03 07:52:37 <rwhitby> freakout: read further
Jan 03 07:52:40 <freakout> heh
Jan 03 07:52:46 <jacques> I think that was before he figured it out
Jan 03 07:53:02 * xcomp feels left out, pouts
Jan 03 07:53:16 <jmyaonpalmpre> has there been progress with quake besides running demo?
Jan 03 07:53:28 <jacques> rwhitby: where does ipkg-opt come from ? I don't see it in git.webos-internals.org
Jan 03 07:53:39 <rwhitby> jacques: optware
Jan 03 07:53:45 <xcomp> jacques: "Advanced command line installer foo"
Jan 03 07:53:47 <rwhitby> optware/bootstrap
Jan 03 07:54:11 <rwhitby> jacques: I just unpack the ipkg from optware, and repackage it for the Pre
Jan 03 07:54:52 <jacques> ok I see http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Setting_up_optware_feed
Jan 03 07:54:55 <destinal> hmm, my pre apparently didn't like compiling things, it froze, restarted, and now won't boot up , even after battery pull  :(
Jan 03 07:55:21 <freakout> oooh. bpadalino: do i read that right? You got an opengles object onscreen?
Jan 03 07:55:50 <jacques> hmm, normally I would say OOM except for the "won't boot" thing :-\
Jan 03 07:56:04 <destinal> freakout: yes and I ran his demo, can confirm it works
Jan 03 07:56:14 <freakout> destinal: nice!
Jan 03 07:56:23 <freakout> destinal: now where's the port of GLQuake? :p
Jan 03 07:56:56 <jacques> destinal: what does it do when you replace battery and turn it on?
Jan 03 07:56:57 <destinal> ack, I think maybe I have to doctor...
Jan 03 07:57:32 <KEYofR> anyone know how to log in to undernet with wicd when undernet requires the /quote pass #### before full connect, yet wicd just says "not connected" when I try to send the command. btw _this_ is exactly one of the reasons I meant the other day when I said there are reasons to use bitchx still and that it's dump and sweeping to simply say "wicd is better period"
Jan 03 07:57:43 <rwhitby> http://forums.precentral.net/showthread.php?p=2125044
Jan 03 07:58:06 <freakout> rwhitby: cool bananas
Jan 03 07:59:03 <jacques> rwhitby: didn't you mean "We *think* we have discovered the official method ..." ?
Jan 03 07:59:08 <jacques> ;-)
Jan 03 07:59:39 <rwhitby> jacques: fixed
Jan 03 07:59:53 <hborders> does the iphone user agent spoofer thing still work?
Jan 03 07:59:55 <freakout> ugh. geez I hate thinking up headlines sometimes
Jan 03 08:00:27 <jmyaonpalmpre> rwhitby :do you guys ever sleep........I'm thankful you don't or my pre wouldn't be as cool
Jan 03 08:00:41 <rwhitby> freakout: "Palm announces webOS Native SDK"
Jan 03 08:00:46 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 08:00:53 <freakout> "....it's Linux, stupid"
Jan 03 08:02:28 <jmyaonpalmpre> you can use zsoc line from earlier "we're hacks extroidaner" without spelling errors of course
Jan 03 08:02:40 <jmyaonpalmpre> hackers**
Jan 03 08:02:54 <rwhitby> freakout: "Is this Palm's webOS Native SDK?"
Jan 03 08:03:24 <freakout> oh, that's good. I had "Native webOS App Launching Secrets Uncovered" but it wasn't rolling off the tongue right...
Jan 03 08:03:51 <jacques> see palm is taking cues from google. they announced the SDK, but in the way of a complex puzzle which only webos hackers extraordinaire could decipher
Jan 03 08:03:54 * rwhitby wonders whether to tweet now, just to scoop freakout
Jan 03 08:03:58 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 08:03:59 <freakout> go ahead
Jan 03 08:04:09 <freakout> It's Precentral I'm more concerned with :p
Jan 03 08:04:15 <freakout> (as usual)
Jan 03 08:04:33 <freakout> Derek Kessler told me off on Twitter for "worrying about what other sites are doing"
Jan 03 08:04:45 <freakout> which, of course, makes me enjoy scooping them all the more, heh
Jan 03 08:05:27 <destinal> rwhitby: running doctor..  someone at palm was watch our log and decided to hit "remote nuke destinal's pre" ..  ok, probably not :)
Jan 03 08:05:28 <rwhitby> http://bit.ly/we-have-liftoff-palm-native-launch-capability
Jan 03 08:06:12 <rwhitby> freakout: I have room in the tweet for another link ...
Jan 03 08:06:17 <freakout> heheh
Jan 03 08:06:23 <freakout> give me five minutes...
Jan 03 08:06:34 <rwhitby> ok - you do the layman's version ;-)
Jan 03 08:07:01 <destinal> wow, if this doesn't proceed farther than a palm logo even in doctor, I think I have an actual brick here
Jan 03 08:07:13 <egaudet> my phone is at palm logo too
Jan 03 08:07:19 <egaudet> not going anywhere
Jan 03 08:07:22 <jacques> destinal: I can see engineers at palm looking at the last frantic messages your pre sent before it imploded and saying "what the ... ?"
Jan 03 08:07:49 * rwhitby starts dinner
Jan 03 08:07:55 <hborders> who's the original tweeter?
Jan 03 08:08:00 <hborders> so I can retweet them
Jan 03 08:08:12 <hborders> i can't follow rwhitby.  :(
Jan 03 08:08:27 <jacques> destinal and egaudet this is not a good trend
Jan 03 08:09:06 <destinal> egaudet: were you doing anything CPU intensive or disk intensive like compiling massive programs?
Jan 03 08:09:15 <jacques> did *both* of your phones die while native building?
Jan 03 08:09:29 <egaudet> what option to ps makes it wrap lines instead of cutting them off
Jan 03 08:09:30 <jacques> did you maybe fill up some partition?
Jan 03 08:09:48 <jacques> egaudet: well you could add www
Jan 03 08:09:49 <egaudet> destinal, I was doing a lot of debian chroot stuff.  Then I tried to resize2fs when I ran out of room
Jan 03 08:09:56 <jacques> ps -efwww
Jan 03 08:10:08 <destinal> egaudet: that can be pretty disk intensive, yeah
Jan 03 08:10:10 <rwhitby> hborders: @webosinternals
Jan 03 08:10:14 <hborders> k
Jan 03 08:10:16 <egaudet> but I can novaterm in still
Jan 03 08:10:20 <rwhitby> not done yet
Jan 03 08:10:35 <rwhitby> freakout: make sure you mention how long it took apple and google to release native SDKs ...
Jan 03 08:10:51 <freakout> ha! but of course...
Jan 03 08:11:03 <jacques> egaudet: see anything strange? any partitions at 99-100% utilization?
Jan 03 08:11:12 <egaudet> root      1027     1  4 00:17 ?        00:00:49 /bin/sh -e -c # Wait here until the bus is ready.  Folks waiting on me to?# "start" won't get that event until this script finishes?while :; do?    # look for ports 4444 and 4445 opened; means the busses are listening?    grep -q '00000000:115C' /proc/net/tcp \?        && grep -q '00000000:115D' /proc/net/tcp \?        && break?    usleep 10000?done    ? /bin/sh dbus_system
Jan 03 08:11:18 <jacques> destinal: can you novaterm in?
Jan 03 08:11:35 <destinal> jacques: negative, and doctor doesn't work
Jan 03 08:11:42 <destinal> never get the flashing palm logo on start
Jan 03 08:11:46 <egaudet> destinal, not even from recovery mode
Jan 03 08:11:53 <destinal> egaudet: correct
Jan 03 08:12:09 <destinal> just booted recovery, it switched from usb logo to palm logo then freeze
Jan 03 08:12:09 <jacques> destinal: you removed battery, wait, replace battery, plug into USB while holding volume up ?
Jan 03 08:12:22 <jacques> hmm
Jan 03 08:13:33 <freakout> rwhitby: quick explanation of your wrapper script for Dummies?
Jan 03 08:13:50 <oil> its a script that wraps things
Jan 03 08:14:08 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 08:14:10 <freakout> okay
Jan 03 08:14:24 <freakout> let's raise it from "Dummies" to "bloggers"
Jan 03 08:14:45 <freakout> I have the beginnings of a sentence....
Jan 03 08:14:52 <rwhitby> freakout: irrelevant - just a way to make sure we had done a 'cd' to the right directory before running the program
Jan 03 08:15:00 <egaudet> since you need to be in the directory that contains the .wad
Jan 03 08:15:13 <egaudet> ok my Pre is back up now after another reboot
Jan 03 08:15:15 <rwhitby> #!/bin/sh
Jan 03 08:15:16 <rwhitby> cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake/bin
Jan 03 08:15:17 <rwhitby> ./quake
Jan 03 08:15:19 <rwhitby> 3 lines
Jan 03 08:15:24 <freakout> "So how's it done? Rather simply, actually. All a developer needs to do is install the binary files and include a standard <I>appinfo.json</I> file that tells webOS everything about a particular app. By setting the type to "game" and pointing to a binary file, rather than your typical "index.html"
Jan 03 08:15:38 <rwhitby> yep
Jan 03 08:15:40 <Decimate> i see a post of quake on engadget working
Jan 03 08:15:42 <freakout> yada yada
Jan 03 08:15:49 <Decimate> but the version in preware is a demo :/
Jan 03 08:15:52 <Decimate> am i missing something?
Jan 03 08:16:02 <dtzWill> Decimate: i'm working on it now fwiw idk anything about engadget
Jan 03 08:16:14 <dtzWill> it's so close to wkring; just need a good control scheme
Jan 03 08:16:26 <dtzWill> Decimate: grab it from http://wdtz.org/files/sdlquake if you want an updated binary
Jan 03 08:16:34 <tmzt> freakout: woah
Jan 03 08:16:35 <EdLin> dtzWill: "WSDF"?
Jan 03 08:16:56 <EdLin> er, WASD
Jan 03 08:16:59 <freakout> tmzt: "woah" good or "woah" bad
Jan 03 08:17:12 <rwhitby> Decimate: it's via http://www.everythingpre.com/blog/quake-next-3d-shooter-ported-to-palm-pre/2010/01/02/
Jan 03 08:17:18 <rwhitby> from our youtube channel
Jan 03 08:17:23 <tmzt> freakout: good
Jan 03 08:17:23 <Decimate> oh
Jan 03 08:17:29 <dtzWill> EdLin: it's in landscape, and there's lots more to control unfortunately
Jan 03 08:17:30 <Decimate> beautiful
Jan 03 08:17:31 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 08:17:38 <freakout> everythingpre's "via" was PIC
Jan 03 08:17:41 <dtzWill> how to aim, move, shoot, jump, run, change weapons :(
Jan 03 08:18:01 <EdLin> dtzWill: shoot make that space or orange
Jan 03 08:18:02 <Decimate> can any of the controls take advantage of the accelerometer?
Jan 03 08:18:04 <rwhitby> freakout: make sure you put http://youtube.com/webosinternals  and  twitter @webosinternals in there somewhere ;-)
Jan 03 08:18:20 <Decimate>  or is that beyond possible as of now?
Jan 03 08:18:21 <rwhitby> maybe the IRC channel too ;-)
Jan 03 08:18:23 <freakout> i think something can be arranged
Jan 03 08:18:33 <EdLin> dtzWill: or do like doom's port and use the touch screen for shooting too
Jan 03 08:18:47 <dtzWill> EdLin: yep have that
Jan 03 08:18:58 <jmyaonpalmpre> wheres freakouts article going?
Jan 03 08:19:05 <dtzWill> EdLin: actually right now have touchscreen control aiming, zone on bottom for shooting, and jump in the upper corner
Jan 03 08:19:19 <dtzWill> so the touchscreen gets some good use :)
Jan 03 08:19:22 <EdLin> sounds good
Jan 03 08:19:40 <dtzWill> but yeah lots of work on making it better today--hope to get a beta out soon
Jan 03 08:20:24 <EdLin> dtzWill: thanks. :)
Jan 03 08:21:07 <jacques> destinal: any update on your pre?
Jan 03 08:21:16 <Robi_> wtf the palm just rebooted on its own
Jan 03 08:23:14 <oil> rwhitby: so palm had methods for launching these things from icons already?
Jan 03 08:23:27 * Robi_ thinks bad hardware
Jan 03 08:23:50 <EdLin> Robi_: mine's done that at least twice, it happens.
Jan 03 08:24:16 <Robi_> EdLin: together with a non working keyboard and other odd behavior..
Jan 03 08:24:18 <EdLin> Robi_: less often than my Centro. :-)
Jan 03 08:24:35 <EdLin> Robi_: oh, nm then. Take advantage of Palm's 1 year warrenty.
Jan 03 08:24:38 <Robi_> i'm getting a diff one tomorrow
Jan 03 08:24:45 <Robi_> er later today
Jan 03 08:24:52 <Robi_> since it's passed midnight
Jan 03 08:25:00 <EdLin> hope you have better luck with your new one.
Jan 03 08:26:18 <EdLin> Robi_: don't forget to webos doctor it before turning it in for warranty repairs.
Jan 03 08:26:24 <Decimate> dtzWill: how long have you been around webos-internals. i don't check here as much as i used to but i havent seen you before 1.3.5..just curious.
Jan 03 08:26:26 <freakout> rwhitby, destinal: how does this sound? Based on <I>this</I> new information, Palm's native webOS SDK may turn out to be nothing more complex than the standard tools that desktop developers have been using for <I>decades</I>, with their patches to SDL automatically forcing the correct resolution and input settings for a handheld device.
Jan 03 08:26:35 <destinal> oil: yes, you had to figure that with the native app support stuff they had in 1.3.5 that native apps using the standard ipk, appinfo.json stuff would probably be possible
Jan 03 08:26:52 <oil> right, i figured as much
Jan 03 08:27:06 <oil> (which is why i was against adding the launching ability right to preware)
Jan 03 08:27:18 <oil> but you guys figured it out?
Jan 03 08:27:39 <destinal> ooh, the new doctor doesn't have the flash logo, it has a linux console screen?
Jan 03 08:27:41 <dtzWill> Decimate: nope just kinda jumped in :)
Jan 03 08:27:50 <dtzWill> Decimate: don't worry you didn't forget me or anything
Jan 03 08:27:51 <Robi_> EdLin: i've had decent luck so far, it's been 7-8months
Jan 03 08:28:10 <Robi_> yeah was planing on a doctor to see if it resolves any issues
Jan 03 08:28:11 <Decimate> dtzWill: okay, making sure. nice work though :)
Jan 03 08:28:20 <dtzWill> ty ty
Jan 03 08:28:41 <jacques> lol: "Anyway I'm disappointed that they didn't skip q1 and go for q3 this day and age"
Jan 03 08:28:43 <EdLin> Robi_: I was refering to using Doctor to keep Palm from voiding your warranty because you patched it / ran unapproved appps
Jan 03 08:28:56 <destinal> I'm doctoring now, I have no idea what died on my pre, maybe filling up /var, but that really shouldn't
Jan 03 08:29:04 <destinal> cause that sort of problem
Jan 03 08:29:21 <jacques> destinal: how did you get it to doctor?
Jan 03 08:29:36 <dtzWill> rwhitby-pre: yt?
Jan 03 08:29:56 <destinal> jacques: had to use another system, I think virtualbox was confusing my usb subsystem, or my novacom service on windows 7 was misbehaving
Jan 03 08:30:10 <destinal> connected it to my linux laptop and doctoring there, all is well
Jan 03 08:30:13 <jacques> destinal: phew!
Jan 03 08:30:17 <Robi_> EdLin: i dont think they'd find out anyhow, its the sprint store ppl
Jan 03 08:30:38 <destinal> but the 1.3.5 doctor doesn't display a logo while flashing, it shows text scrolling as things run on the pre to prepare it
Jan 03 08:30:46 <Decimate> sprint store people are usually familar with homebrew Robi_
Jan 03 08:30:59 <jacques> destinal: interesting. I hadn't heard that
Jan 03 08:31:02 <EdLin> Robi_: true, I had USBModem and everything on my Palm Centro when I brought it to Sprint. Forgot to erase the tether app. :P
Jan 03 08:31:17 <Robi_> that's fine it'll be doctored as soon as I verify my backup
Jan 03 08:31:37 <Decimate> the guy at the local sprint store was surprised to see that precorder was avaliable to others for alpha testing because he was still doing it via command line :P
Jan 03 08:31:47 <Robi_> ;]
Jan 03 08:32:04 <Robi_> it's not like he isn't bored and can't come here
Jan 03 08:32:17 <Robi_> ON his Pre
Jan 03 08:32:26 <Robi_> wIRC ftw!
Jan 03 08:32:34 <oil> srsly
Jan 03 08:32:40 <dtzWill> jacques: lol q3
Jan 03 08:32:42 <freakout> so how long did it take Google to throw up the NDK for android?
Jan 03 08:32:49 <Robi_> ok yanked batt and palm logo is flashing this time
Jan 03 08:32:50 * jmyaonpalmpre is using wIRC laying in bed
Jan 03 08:32:51 <Decimate> preware, youview, wirc, precorder
Jan 03 08:32:57 <Decimate> my favorite homebrew apps :)
Jan 03 08:33:06 <Decimate> oh, and doom! :)
Jan 03 08:33:12 <jacques> dtzWill: some ppl will complain about anything
Jan 03 08:33:12 <antianalog> have to check out youview, don't have it
Jan 03 08:33:16 <Robi_> whats youview?
Jan 03 08:33:26 <Decimate> visual voicemail app.
Jan 03 08:33:35 <Robi_> heh
Jan 03 08:33:36 <Decimate> way better than googles visual voicemail imo
Jan 03 08:33:45 <antianalog> o i have google voice activated so i get visual voicemail
Jan 03 08:34:09 <Decimate> individual greetings for each contact, immediatly alerted when someone leaves a voicemail.
Jan 03 08:34:14 <Decimate> gives a lot of detail
Jan 03 08:34:14 <Robi_> ya i have a gvoice tab along my gmail tab
Jan 03 08:34:31 <antianalog> Decimate, sounds cool
Jan 03 08:34:40 <antianalog> i like how gvoice looks like gmail on the web
Jan 03 08:34:46 <destinal> rwhitby: have you run a 135 doctor yet?  have you noticed that it's quite verbose?
Jan 03 08:35:23 <destinal> on the pre I mean
Jan 03 08:35:24 <Robi_> ok so it booted
Jan 03 08:35:25 <Robi_> no keyb
Jan 03 08:35:35 <Robi_> I hit it a few times and keyb started working
Jan 03 08:35:44 <Robi_> psh!
Jan 03 08:36:40 <destinal> Robi_: lol, loose connection inside?
Jan 03 08:36:41 <KEYofR> I have not managed to get mytether to work _once_ and I even paid for the fuller up to datest version. grr. closest I came was one day for about an hour, and I had to manually re-write the routing table and resolv.conf , and I was never able to duplicate a functional usbnet or wifi adhoc connection even doing it manually.
Jan 03 08:37:05 <oil> KEYofR if you paid for it, get help from the developer
Jan 03 08:37:15 <KEYofR> I have never yet bothered the author though for help, which presumably would make a difference
Jan 03 08:37:18 <Robi_> KEYofR: ya it worked for me a few times but enver when i needed it
Jan 03 08:37:50 <antianalog> i enabled usbnet and followed the tut on webos-internals as well as one from the forums
Jan 03 08:37:54 <Robi_> freetether work yet?
Jan 03 08:37:58 <antianalog> don't use mytether
Jan 03 08:38:04 <antianalog> i just tether
Jan 03 08:38:22 <Robi_> its easy to make shell script to do it in terminal
Jan 03 08:38:48 <destinal> Robi_: or just add it to startup scripts
Jan 03 08:39:01 <Robi_> permatether?
Jan 03 08:39:12 <Robi_> doesn't wifi have to be off?
Jan 03 08:39:15 <Jack87> can someone start a quake wiki i am not sure how to start one. then the rest i can do. just need the page and title
Jan 03 08:39:37 <dtzWill> Jack87: on it
Jan 03 08:40:12 <Robi_> great now I cant ssh in
Jan 03 08:40:55 <destinal> and doctor freeze at 66?  sigh
Jan 03 08:41:13 <destinal> s/66/66%/
Jan 03 08:41:14 <infobot> destinal meant: and doctor freeze at 66%?  sigh
Jan 03 08:42:40 <freakout> post is up...
Jan 03 08:42:40 <freakout> http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/10016/palms-native-webos-app-secrets-revealed/
Jan 03 08:43:01 <Robi_> wow tgz is about a gig
Jan 03 08:43:32 <freakout> rwhitby: linked to your twitter in there :)
Jan 03 08:43:44 <KEYofR> Yeah you're right, it's silly. I don't need a tethering app when I know how to do everything directly.
Jan 03 08:44:02 <tmzt> right
Jan 03 08:44:05 <destinal> 66% is modem firmware reflash, eh?
Jan 03 08:44:07 <Robi_> KEYofR: it's nice to have one visually ;]
Jan 03 08:44:44 <Robi_> flick flick click and you're done
Jan 03 08:44:51 <jacques> destinal: I recall something about if it freezes there wait 10 minutes before proceeding
Jan 03 08:45:14 <jmyaonpalmpre> iphone a year and andriod 2 lol I love that!!!!!!!
Jan 03 08:45:31 <tmzt> destinal: are they flashing over serial?
Jan 03 08:45:35 <KEYofR> take a little while to get a good working script together especially for wifi but, at least theres no mystery then. and I don't mind terminal for ui ;)
Jan 03 08:45:37 <tmzt> is it ts muxed at that point?
Jan 03 08:45:51 <oil> yeah freakout, that was a nice touch
Jan 03 08:45:52 <tmzt> interesting, then we may be able to talk to qcsbl
Jan 03 08:46:12 <rwhitby> freakout: no youtube link?
Jan 03 08:46:35 <Robi_> holy moly
Jan 03 08:46:37 <freakout> Hmmm
Jan 03 08:46:48 <Robi_> so no need for a terminal app, just run xterm ? ;]
Jan 03 08:46:51 <oil> well crap
Jan 03 08:46:53 <Robi_> well w/o X
Jan 03 08:46:59 <Robi_> screen for instance
Jan 03 08:47:04 <oil> when freakout goes into the army, who are we going to have make news postings for us?
Jan 03 08:47:10 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 08:47:25 <freakout> precentral. they'll just be slow on the uptake :p
Jan 03 08:47:27 <oil> someone needs to get on precentrals writing staff or something
Jan 03 08:47:33 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 08:47:39 <Robi_> upstart
Jan 03 08:47:42 <freakout> that could be me. Dieter offered me a job again the other day
Jan 03 08:47:43 <rwhitby> tweet out
Jan 03 08:47:53 <oil> i bet if rwhitby asked to write articles for pc
Jan 03 08:47:57 <oil> dieter would let him
Jan 03 08:48:00 <KEYofR> ... in other news you don't care about... I need to tell the cook at this diner that the eggs in eggs benedict are poached, not fried
Jan 03 08:48:04 <Robi_> dangit rwhitby I can't RT that
Jan 03 08:48:08 <Robi_> it's too long
Jan 03 08:48:14 <Robi_> by 13 chars
Jan 03 08:48:25 <freakout> heh. layman's version, rwhitby? i like it
Jan 03 08:49:03 <rwhitby> I thought the new RT api allowed full 140 chars
Jan 03 08:49:13 <Robi_> IF I were using that crap
Jan 03 08:49:20 <dtzWill> rwhitby: i just pushed a beta of sdlquake, i hope i did it right. any way to monitor the autobuilder? :)
Jan 03 08:49:28 <dtzWill> or just hit refresh in preware a bunch
Jan 03 08:49:29 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 03 08:49:34 <Robi_> apps still do it the old fashioned way
Jan 03 08:49:38 <rwhitby> dtzWill: logs.nslu2-linux.org
Jan 03 08:49:41 <destinal> jacques: so I foolishly restarted my pre at 66%, apparently didn't totally hose up my modem firmware (it shouldn't have been flashing anyway since it's the same version I had) and my pre is alive again
Jan 03 08:49:48 <Robi_> web twitter does the api RT
Jan 03 08:50:02 <destinal> missing sprint package probably
Jan 03 08:50:10 <KEYofR> oh wow that's right, with the native apps and fb access, no more service+js-front-end for everything that needs more than js.
Jan 03 08:50:39 <KEYofR> (xterm)
Jan 03 08:51:06 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ty
Jan 03 08:51:09 <Robi_> destinal: rwhitby, what all have you tested running natively?
Jan 03 08:51:11 <oil> service+js is still very useful
Jan 03 08:51:18 <egaudet> anything that is a mojo app that needs native code as well still needs a service
Jan 03 08:51:20 <KEYofR> 'cept it should probably be rxvt or ? is there something lighter yet?
Jan 03 08:52:25 <destinal> egaudet: exactly, since this is *web*os, mojo should always be the default development framework unless one has a good reason to do otherwise
Jan 03 08:52:40 <oil> which is really only games
Jan 03 08:52:45 <jacques> lol fried eggs benedict
Jan 03 08:52:55 <jacques> what's the sauce, mayonaise?
Jan 03 08:52:58 <oil> or things that need more visual elements then what js can provide
Jan 03 08:53:36 <destinal> oil: right.  and even some things that we could do with a plugin if we had better docs but we'll be forced to do in SDL because it's a documented framework, I think
Jan 03 08:54:08 <oil> there is no appmenu integration, none of that
Jan 03 08:54:23 <destinal> right
Jan 03 08:54:25 <oil> id be interrested how you would spawn a banner notification or dashboard pane from sdl
Jan 03 08:54:25 <oil> lol
Jan 03 08:54:37 <KEYofR> heh. costarican cook in a NJ diner at 3:53am . I'm lucky it exists in any form
Jan 03 08:54:56 * freakout is off to make dinner
Jan 03 08:55:02 <destinal> oil: actually using service calls it may be possible to make hybrid apps
Jan 03 08:55:08 <destinal> have a mojo helper for a native program
Jan 03 08:55:09 <oil> right
Jan 03 08:55:20 <oil> not like a plugin were you could put mojo and js right over the top of it
Jan 03 08:55:25 <KEYofR> but the hollandaise does look like it was poured from an envelope as powder a few minutes ago :)
Jan 03 08:55:50 <jacques> :-S
Jan 03 08:56:02 <egaudet> alrighty I'm going to bed
Jan 03 08:56:06 <Domingan> did I read that a new version of quake is out?
Jan 03 08:56:28 <destinal> egaudet: yeah you're right, we should be able to persist preware through a doctor
Jan 03 08:56:32 <oil> but for 3d games and more i think sdl is perfect
Jan 03 08:56:40 <oil> you dont need an app menu
Jan 03 08:56:45 <oil> or any mojo stuff for that
Jan 03 08:56:52 <destinal> but it would need to be a game for that
Jan 03 08:57:07 <KEYofR> I want to see gpu-assisted non-game apps.
Jan 03 08:57:28 <freakout> I want to see the whole UI pushed through the GPU...
Jan 03 08:57:33 <rwhitby> dtzWill: done
Jan 03 08:57:39 * rwhitby bbl (dinner)
Jan 03 08:57:39 <egaudet> we could make a "game" to run the ipkgservice postinst, or a "game" to install it
Jan 03 08:57:40 <dtzWill> rwhitby: yep, testing it now
Jan 03 08:57:46 <dtzWill> rwhitby: shhhhhh i wanna test it before i announce
Jan 03 08:57:49 <dtzWill> also the wiki too
Jan 03 08:57:52 <dtzWill> ;)
Jan 03 08:57:57 <dtzWill> >_> <_<
Jan 03 08:58:11 <dtzWill> unfortunately ipk's don't update through some diff system hehe
Jan 03 08:58:17 <jmyaonpalmpre> updating quake as I text from pre thank you!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 03 08:58:42 <ShadeS> quake?
Jan 03 08:58:44 <dtzWill> jmyaonpalmpre: hold on
Jan 03 08:58:45 <dtzWill> ahhh
Jan 03 08:58:45 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 03 08:58:48 <dtzWill> rwhitby: what have you done
Jan 03 08:58:49 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 03 08:58:51 <jmyaonpalmpre> sorrry
Jan 03 08:58:52 <dtzWill> let's hope it works
Jan 03 08:58:56 <oil> same crappy icon?
Jan 03 08:58:57 <oil> lol
Jan 03 08:59:00 <dtzWill> well no i want everyone to see it
Jan 03 08:59:02 <dtzWill> just
Jan 03 08:59:04 <dtzWill> wanna test first
Jan 03 08:59:04 <dtzWill> ;)
Jan 03 08:59:23 <dtzWill> yep
Jan 03 08:59:25 <dtzWill> works :D:D
Jan 03 08:59:34 <rwhitby> dtzWill: "Testing is for Users" - Linus Torvalds
Jan 03 08:59:34 <jmyaonpalmpre> I been watching in background for a while just waiting lol
Jan 03 08:59:42 <oil> lol
Jan 03 08:59:45 <dtzWill> controls might not be obvious but they work decently well
Jan 03 08:59:58 <dtzWill> i spent some time working on them so hopefully they work well for others
Jan 03 08:59:58 <jacques> I don't get this: I have no mount for /opt in my /etc/fstab, yet it is mounted from /var
Jan 03 08:59:59 <Robi_> hah at reboot pre forgets to auto connect to my wifi ap
Jan 03 08:59:59 <oil> on screen?
Jan 03 09:00:01 <dtzWill> it's hard :(
Jan 03 09:00:06 <jmyaonpalmpre> what are they?
Jan 03 09:00:09 <dtzWill> anyway docs on what they are should be up shortly ish
Jan 03 09:00:24 <rwhitby> dtzWill: let me know when you tweet and I'll RT
Jan 03 09:00:41 <dtzWill> Jack87: updates on the quake docs? :D
Jan 03 09:00:43 <jmyaonpalmpre> ok j forward sym shoot
Jan 03 09:00:46 * Domingan testing
Jan 03 09:01:07 <jacques> rwhitby: does official optware install still use /etc/fstab for the /opt -> /var/opt mount?
Jan 03 09:01:14 <rwhitby> jacques: nope - upstart
Jan 03 09:01:19 <EdLin> rwhitby: what's your twitter?
Jan 03 09:01:21 <KEYofR> fstab is not the only way thiongs can get mounted, nor is mtab an authoritative source of info on what is mounted.
Jan 03 09:01:22 <Jack87> working on diagram now
Jan 03 09:01:31 <dtzWill> rwhitby: do you follow me?
Jan 03 09:01:34 <rwhitby> dtzWill: so how do you like our little project release processes?
Jan 03 09:01:41 <rwhitby> @webosinternals
Jan 03 09:01:43 <jmyaonpalmpre> space jump lol
Jan 03 09:01:56 <jacques> rwhitby: OK. but there is no way to use preware to install into my chroot
Jan 03 09:02:26 <jmyaonpalmpre> R gives me axe  wooooohooooo
Jan 03 09:02:50 <dtzWill> rwhitby: the Makefile autobuild and whatnot?
Jan 03 09:03:00 <dtzWill> rwhitby: works great :D
Jan 03 09:03:22 <jmyaonpalmpre> dtzwill can I look down?
Jan 03 09:03:38 <dtzWill> jmyaonpalmpre: no, but you couldn't easily on q1
Jan 03 09:03:44 <dtzWill> jmyaonpalmpre: there was q,a
Jan 03 09:03:54 <oil> oh, its still using hte upstart mojo to start it?
Jan 03 09:03:55 <jmyaonpalmpre> Z did it for me...?
Jan 03 09:03:56 * Domingan crashed it...
Jan 03 09:03:58 <dtzWill> jmyaonpalmpre: but making that work with the mouse, etc, was difficult so isn't part of it for now
Jan 03 09:04:46 <Domingan> reboot to try again...
Jan 03 09:04:52 <jmyaonpalmpre> listen it's the shit no matter what
Jan 03 09:05:03 <Domingan> hell yea$
Jan 03 09:05:05 <jmyaonpalmpre> It's working good for me
Jan 03 09:05:06 <Jack87> a and z do look up and down if you really want it
Jan 03 09:05:14 <Domingan> simply amazing
Jan 03 09:05:23 <jmyaonpalmpre> left right yet jack87????
Jan 03 09:06:10 * oil thinks it needs a little joystick overlay for movement
Jan 03 09:06:27 <dtzWill> j forward, h/n strafe left-right
Jan 03 09:06:53 <jmyaonpalmpre> o no turning? haven't played for a while?
Jan 03 09:07:52 <dtzWill> jmyaonpalmpre: touchscreen turning
Jan 03 09:08:30 <jmyaonpalmpre> was about to go to sleep.....maybe not
Jan 03 09:09:19 <dtzWill> oh damn i think the binary there is outdated
Jan 03 09:09:30 <dtzWill> there's no jump, upper left corner is supposed to be jump
Jan 03 09:09:34 <dtzWill> bottom is shoot
Jan 03 09:09:55 <jmyaonpalmpre> good thing I don't have classes again unitl 25th .........
Jan 03 09:09:55 <dtzWill> also if someone is super interface oriented and wants to come up with a better control scheme/overlay/etc let me know
Jan 03 09:11:32 * Domingan is amazed.... 
Jan 03 09:11:53 <Domingan> I wish I had your skills
Jan 03 09:12:12 <Domingan> that is amazing!
Jan 03 09:12:24 <dtzWill> updated binary being pushed, my bad guys
Jan 03 09:12:27 <dtzWill> should be up shortly
Jan 03 09:12:30 <dtzWill> includes jump
Jan 03 09:12:33 <dtzWill> idk how i did that, sorry
Jan 03 09:12:48 <dtzWill> there's a reason i wanted to test before announcing :):)
Jan 03 09:12:51 <Domingan> I have jump..
Jan 03 09:13:00 <Domingan> its space bar
Jan 03 09:13:01 <dtzWill> Domingan: er you do?
Jan 03 09:13:02 <dtzWill> oh
Jan 03 09:13:06 <dtzWill> no the upper left corner of the screen
Jan 03 09:13:09 <dtzWill> so you can run
Jan 03 09:13:10 <dtzWill> and jump
Jan 03 09:13:23 <dtzWill> otherwise jumping gaps is really really hard
Jan 03 09:13:23 <jmyaonpalmpre> dog just fucked me up
Jan 03 09:13:28 <dtzWill> haha yeah
Jan 03 09:13:31 <dtzWill> kinda hafta play on easy :)
Jan 03 09:13:31 <Domingan> ahhhhh I see
Jan 03 09:13:41 <dtzWill> i might eventually try to make it all easier to compensate  for difficult controls
Jan 03 09:13:59 <dtzWill> fwiw jhbn is normal movement, and iuk is same as ihn only /run/
Jan 03 09:14:01 <jmyaonpalmpre> hook a mouse up on mini usb lol
Jan 03 09:14:11 <Domingan> it crashed on me the first time but its working great now!!!!
Jan 03 09:14:29 <Domingan> BT mouse?
Jan 03 09:14:29 <jmyaonpalmpre> didn't crash but died lol
Jan 03 09:14:45 <dtzWill> bt mouse no idea
Jan 03 09:15:02 <dtzWill> should work although i might need to do some work since it thinks the mouse is a touchscreen right now
Jan 03 09:15:20 <dtzWill> if i had a bt mouse it might be a higher priority, althuogh if someone wants to test i could see myself working on that
Jan 03 09:15:20 <jmyaonpalmpre> imagine sitting in class whipping out mouse to play quake on phone lol
Jan 03 09:15:23 <dtzWill> hahah
Jan 03 09:15:29 <Domingan> again DAMN!!!!
Jan 03 09:15:38 <jmyaonpalmpre> crash again?
Jan 03 09:15:38 <Domingan> you RULE
Jan 03 09:15:43 <jmyaonpalmpre> ooooo
Jan 03 09:16:07 <Domingan> hahahahaha
Jan 03 09:16:25 <dtzWill> it's crashing??
Jan 03 09:16:27 <dtzWill> :/
Jan 03 09:16:33 <Domingan> no
Jan 03 09:16:34 <dtzWill> are you running other things?
Jan 03 09:16:34 <jacques> dtzWill: bt stack work needs to be done before we can have bt controllers
Jan 03 09:16:34 <dtzWill> oh
Jan 03 09:16:42 <jmyaonpalmpre> noooooooo I thought it did for him
Jan 03 09:16:49 <dtzWill> jacques: ah, okay. i thuoght someone said that worked
Jan 03 09:16:52 <dtzWill> Domingan: good to hear :D
Jan 03 09:17:10 <dtzWill> come on autobuilder
Jan 03 09:17:11 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 03 09:17:12 <dtzWill> :D
Jan 03 09:17:18 <Domingan> should have sent that in one line
Jan 03 09:17:27 <jmyaonpalmpre> was working perfectly and I'm on wIRC and 3 webpages
Jan 03 09:17:37 <destinal> dtzWill: I'm working on getting a lightweight stack working but I don't know enough about the chipset / protocol to know whether that approach will work in the short term or long term
Jan 03 09:17:40 <dtzWill> argh my apologies i'm getting excited ( re lots of small messages)
Jan 03 09:18:06 <dtzWill> destinal: ah, gotcha. i don't know much about bt myself, so props to you and gl :)
Jan 03 09:18:21 <Karotte_exe> hi
Jan 03 09:18:23 <jmyaonpalmpre> dtzwill: what's next on ur agenda?
Jan 03 09:18:42 <dtzWill> jmyaonpalmpre: i don't have one solidified
Jan 03 09:18:43 <Domingan> take over the world?
Jan 03 09:18:43 <oil> freeciv!
Jan 03 09:19:05 <dtzWill> i'm gonna go sleep and watch tv with my gf shortly
Jan 03 09:19:40 <jmyaonpalmpre> my girl sleeping next to me right now lol
Jan 03 09:19:50 <Domingan> ditto
Jan 03 09:19:53 <jmyaonpalmpre> 419 am here
Jan 03 09:20:18 <Domingan> 220
Jan 03 09:20:26 <jmyaonpalmpre> I gotta get my sleeping habits right before classes start again
Jan 03 09:20:30 <dtzWill> haha
Jan 03 09:21:03 <jmyaonpalmpre> I got an 8 am web design class ahhh
Jan 03 09:21:18 <Domingan> I'm gonna fail next semester cause I was playing quake in class
Jan 03 09:21:27 <sryan> is there a keybinding for moving a slider back in options menu in quake
Jan 03 09:21:28 <jmyaonpalmpre> lol
Jan 03 09:21:39 <dtzWill> sryan: no, that's a known bug for now
Jan 03 09:21:56 <dtzWill> sryan: but the options don't seem permanent, so... o_O just restart
Jan 03 09:21:58 <dtzWill> sryan: sorry
Jan 03 09:22:15 <sryan> ok thanks
Jan 03 09:22:43 <sryan> I just want to turn off sound :d
Jan 03 09:22:45 <destinal> dtzWill: working
Jan 03 09:22:59 <dtzWill> volume all the way down turns it off sryan
Jan 03 09:23:00 <Domingan> soooo.. multiplayer???
Jan 03 09:23:00 <Karotte_exe> hm,  im searching for a torrent app, and i found something on the wiki, but i don't understand
Jan 03 09:23:20 <destinal> dtzWill: gesture area starts becoming jump though
Jan 03 09:23:32 <jmyaonpalmpre> torrent app?
Jan 03 09:23:43 <Karotte_exe> jep
Jan 03 09:23:49 <EdLin> optware has rtorrent, but, do you really want to?!
Jan 03 09:24:00 <destinal> dtzWill: isn't it supposed to be shoot?
Jan 03 09:24:03 <dtzWill> destinal: the gesture area is jump again? i thought that was removed
Jan 03 09:24:08 <Karotte_exe> ahm, why not!?
Jan 03 09:24:11 <dtzWill> the bottom should be fire, top left should be jump
Jan 03 09:24:45 <Robi_> http://discussion.treocentral.com/webos-synergy-synchronization/189079-sync-your-palm-pre-backup-option.html
Jan 03 09:25:21 <Karotte_exe> ? there is a quake game?
Jan 03 09:25:28 <EdLin> yes
Jan 03 09:25:38 <Domingan> AUX25 unbound
Jan 03 09:26:02 <dtzWill> Domingan: oh that's an annoyance, sorry (gesture causing "aux25 unbound")
Jan 03 09:26:31 <EdLin> Palm is probably announcing native-games with 3D acceleration at CES, but the webos-internals people have figured it out ahead of time. :)
Jan 03 09:26:32 <jmyaonpalmpre> edlin: where is rtorrent at?
Jan 03 09:26:35 <Domingan> but its jumping
Jan 03 09:26:38 <destinal> dtzWill: very nice
Jan 03 09:26:48 <dtzWill> update 1.0.11 up and confirmed working
Jan 03 09:26:52 <dtzWill> ty all
Jan 03 09:26:54 <dtzWill> destinal: ty :D
Jan 03 09:27:11 <jmyaonpalmpre> THANK YOU
Jan 03 09:27:21 <EdLin> jmyaonpalmpre: it's available for the linksys slug, I assumed it was in the Pre's repositories as well.
Jan 03 09:27:34 * Domingan is jumping away from a dog
Jan 03 09:27:38 <rwhitby> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Quake needs some work ;-)
Jan 03 09:27:39 <Karotte_exe> can i load quake in preware? and when, how call's it?
Jan 03 09:27:54 <rwhitby> Karotte_exe: yes, and tap the icon
Jan 03 09:28:13 <Karotte_exe> which icon?
Jan 03 09:28:19 <rwhitby> the quake icon
Jan 03 09:28:21 <dtzWill> rwhitby: yes, WIP
Jan 03 09:28:39 <Karotte_exe> i doesn't downloaded it
Jan 03 09:29:03 <jmyaonpalmpre> ok time to sleep 430 am pzz everyone
Jan 03 09:29:12 <Domingan> here we go again....
Jan 03 09:29:17 <dtzWill> rwhitby: is there a way i can put images onto webos-internals for the wiki media
Jan 03 09:29:33 <rwhitby> dtzWill: yep, hit the upload button
Jan 03 09:29:41 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ...................
Jan 03 09:29:46 <dtzWill> rwhitby: ty, sorry
Jan 03 09:29:54 <Karotte_exe> amh, back  to the  torrent app...
Jan 03 09:29:57 <rwhitby> it's well hidden ;-)
Jan 03 09:31:10 <Karotte_exe> ahm, is there an other as : http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/RTorrent ?
Jan 03 09:32:53 <freakout> destinal / bpadalino: still around?
Jan 03 09:33:15 <freakout> what program did you use to get that opengles demo working? anymore deets to share?
Jan 03 09:33:27 <freakout> (a screenshot / video / photo would be nice...)
Jan 03 09:33:42 <destinal> freakout: I'm here
Jan 03 09:34:00 <destinal> freakout: do you have 1.3.5?
Jan 03 09:34:12 <freakout> unfortunately not
Jan 03 09:35:07 <destinal> I don't have the ability to take a video, could do a screenshot but it's not amazingly impressive, just a triangle with concentric circles in it, looks much more impressive in motion
Jan 03 09:35:16 <Karotte_exe> hey, what for a  name have quake in preware?
Jan 03 09:35:25 <oil> quake?
Jan 03 09:35:28 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 09:35:52 <Karotte_exe> ?
Jan 03 09:36:04 <freakout> destinal: that'd be fine for now. hey rwhitby, if you get a chance and feel like taking another vid, I would have the prefect excuse to link to the youtube channel ;)
Jan 03 09:36:07 <Karotte_exe> what is wrong?
Jan 03 09:36:47 <rwhitby> freakout: better for someone else to take it, then I make it a favourite, then you link.  My upload time takes hours for some weird reason.
Jan 03 09:37:31 <rwhitby> Karotte_exe: what does the feed URL for webos-internals say in your Manage Feeds page?
Jan 03 09:37:31 <kmax12> freakout: I can take a video for you
Jan 03 09:37:50 <kmax12> let me just figure out how to position my builtin webcam properly
Jan 03 09:38:06 <freakout> kmax12: sweet... the only question is whether or not destinal is willing to walk you through what's necessary
Jan 03 09:38:09 <rwhitby> kmax12: sweet
Jan 03 09:38:23 <Karotte_exe> ?
Jan 03 09:38:25 <freakout> i just want to make a post "OpenGL On webOS: works"
Jan 03 09:38:33 <kmax12> freakout: walk me through what?
Jan 03 09:38:45 <rwhitby> oh, we're not talking quake, are we?
Jan 03 09:38:56 <freakout> rwhitby: nope
Jan 03 09:38:58 <destinal> rwhitby: quake's sdl but not opengl
Jan 03 09:39:05 <rwhitby> right
Jan 03 09:39:08 <Karotte_exe> the feeds say nothing
Jan 03 09:39:17 <freakout> kmax12: destinal and bpadalino have a working demo of OpenGLes on the Pre
Jan 03 09:39:25 <rwhitby> Karotte_exe: then Preware is not installed properly.  http://install.preware.org
Jan 03 09:39:57 <Karotte_exe> im sure, because i've downloaded many apps
Jan 03 09:40:12 <rwhitby> Karotte_exe: not advanced apps probably
Jan 03 09:40:16 <freakout> Karotte_exe: I can see it fine - it's at the top of the List Of Everything...
Jan 03 09:40:33 <Karotte_exe> ah... wait
Jan 03 09:40:59 <kmax12> freakout: oh ok. sure. i thought everyone was talking about quake, but i can do that too
Jan 03 09:41:46 <freakout> kmax12: well hey, if everything goes right we may be playing GLQuake in a few days.... or you folks with 1.3.5 will be at any rate
Jan 03 09:42:42 <dtzWill> hf with quake everyone, 'night :D
Jan 03 09:42:47 <Karotte_exe> hm, i see doom, but not quake
Jan 03 09:42:56 <destinal> freakout: would metadoctoring to 1.3.5 be of interest to people like you, or unofficial patches / updates to give you SDL/opengl ?
Jan 03 09:43:26 <freakout> dtzWill: I updated palminfocenter's post on quake to mention it works now. g'night! thanks for your efforts
Jan 03 09:43:35 <freakout> destinal: "people like me"? :p
Jan 03 09:43:53 <freakout> unofficial patches/updates would be fantastic
Jan 03 09:43:58 <destinal> freakout: non-sprint people, you know.  people who are left out on all the fun :)
Jan 03 09:44:00 <dtzWill> freakout: appreciate it :D ty :)
Jan 03 09:44:05 <destinal> not to say, losers, exactly
Jan 03 09:44:07 <destinal> :P
Jan 03 09:44:08 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 09:44:20 <antianalog> how do i make a script that runs on start up?
Jan 03 09:44:28 <freakout> destinal: patches would be great. I can't metadoctor. For some utterly bizarre reason my Ubuntu doesn't like it
Jan 03 09:44:40 <freakout> furthermore, my Ubuntu can't see the Pre, either
Jan 03 09:44:43 <kmax12> I am ready to be set up for the demo of openGL if you guys still want a video
Jan 03 09:45:08 <destinal> kmax12: do you have the demo or do you need a binary?
Jan 03 09:45:12 <freakout> destinal: kmax12 is begging for some lovin', if you have the time...
Jan 03 09:45:39 <destinal> I can send binary, one sec
Jan 03 09:45:56 <Karotte_exe> cant find quake in the list:(
Jan 03 09:46:05 <kmax12> destinal: I have nothing, but I won't know what to do with a binary unless you tell me
Jan 03 09:46:25 <destinal> kmax12: do you have 1.3.5, and can you get a root shell?
Jan 03 09:47:29 <kmax12> destinal: I have 1.3.5 and idk what root shell is but I know how to type commands at root
Jan 03 09:47:50 <destinal> kmax12: that's good enough
Jan 03 09:48:22 * Domingan still tripping off quake
Jan 03 09:48:24 <Karotte_exe> hm, do i need the patch 1.3.5 to download quake?
Jan 03 09:50:01 <rwhitby> As stated in the description, it only works on 1.3.5 or later
Jan 03 09:50:51 <destinal> kmax12:  do this
Jan 03 09:51:03 <destinal> wget http://omploader.org/vMzU5Nw/webos-GL-demo; chmod 755 ./webos-GL-demo; ./webos-GL-demo
Jan 03 09:51:39 <Domingan> I got my termibal up too you mind if I play too?
Jan 03 09:51:57 <destinal> anyone is welcome to try it
Jan 03 09:52:20 <Karotte_exe> by
Jan 03 09:52:28 <destinal> sorry omploader makes mixed case URL's which are a bit hard to type in terminal
Jan 03 09:52:49 <destinal> and you can run those three commands seperately one after the other, I pasted with semicolons for brevity
Jan 03 09:53:38 <kmax12> destinal: 2 green triangles and black/white rings?
Jan 03 09:53:56 <Jack87> keymap is posted on qiki
Jan 03 09:54:00 <Jack87> wiki for quake
Jan 03 09:54:06 <destinal> kmax12: yeah, should be pulsing
Jan 03 09:54:11 <destinal> that's in OpenGL-ES
Jan 03 09:54:12 <Jack87> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Quake#Controls
Jan 03 09:54:41 <kmax12> yep
Jan 03 09:54:47 <destinal> as I said, it's not that impressive, just a first demo
Jan 03 09:54:50 <kmax12> so, you just want a video of that?
Jan 03 09:54:58 <destinal> but we could do rotating cubes or whatever tomorrow ;)
Jan 03 09:55:37 <destinal> kmax12: looks like freakout would like a video of it, yeah
Jan 03 09:55:46 <freakout> yep!
Jan 03 09:56:13 <freakout> It's nothing hugely special, but it's proof that OpenGL works  on the Pre, which is super-newsworthy
Jan 03 09:56:25 <destinal> kmax12: probably including the card opening if you can
Jan 03 09:56:38 <DominganPre> love triangles....
Jan 03 09:56:47 <freakout> i could write something without pics or vids, but that's not very web 2.0 ;)
Jan 03 09:56:56 <kmax12> video taken
Jan 03 09:57:42 <freakout> kewl
Jan 03 09:58:18 <jacques> is webos-GL-demo cross-compilable?
Jan 03 09:58:36 <destinal> jacques: I don't see why not
Jan 03 09:59:15 <destinal> jacques: bpadalino posted the code link earlier in the channel
Jan 03 10:00:00 <destinal> http://pastie.textmate.org/private/bkdtihbu5jwe0czpx0fng
Jan 03 10:00:10 <jacques> destinal: I got the code, but not sure about all the header files and the exact compiler commands
Jan 03 10:01:02 <jacques> and I thought we were having issues cross-compiling sdl apps right now
Jan 03 10:01:12 <destinal> gcc -o webos-GL-demo webos-GL-demo.c  -I/usr/local/include/SDL -lSDL -lGLESv2
Jan 03 10:01:27 <destinal> adapt that for your crosscompiler
Jan 03 10:01:48 <destinal> and I recommend using the patched palm include dir
Jan 03 10:02:02 <jacques> ooh, what's that?
Jan 03 10:02:03 <destinal> and the binaries from the doctor
Jan 03 10:02:27 <destinal> http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.3.5/libsdl-1.2.tgz  patched with  http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.3.5/libsdl-1.2-patch.gz
Jan 03 10:02:33 <jacques> oh you mean the sdl include files created with palm's patches applied
Jan 03 10:02:45 <destinal> right
Jan 03 10:02:51 <jacques> I thought it was something more tricky
Jan 03 10:03:10 <destinal> I may have applied bpadalino's extra piranha tricks but I don't know if it matters
Jan 03 10:03:32 <kmax12> destinal freakout does this link work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El6wDFfn1jw
Jan 03 10:03:58 <freakout> kmax12: yes indeedy!
Jan 03 10:04:07 <freakout> kmax12: hey, I didn't realise you were from themxweb
Jan 03 10:04:32 <jacques> hmm, I get "an error occurred please try again later"
Jan 03 10:04:36 <destinal> an error occured, please try again later?
Jan 03 10:05:05 <kmax12> jacques: that's what I got. but it didn't play ok for me
Jan 03 10:05:19 <kmax12> after a couple attempts
Jan 03 10:05:20 <destinal> I hit HQ
Jan 03 10:05:23 <destinal> and it fixed it
Jan 03 10:06:19 <kmax12> freakout: yep. im the mx from the mx web
Jan 03 10:06:27 <jacques> hmm, it's just showing me a black screen now. not even a play putton inside
Jan 03 10:06:31 <rwhitby> freakout: the video is linked on http://youtube.com/webosinternals now
Jan 03 10:06:40 <jacques> but that appears to be me
Jan 03 10:07:14 <destinal> bpadalino rocks
Jan 03 10:07:35 <destinal> even if it's not a cube ;)
Jan 03 10:07:38 <jacques> destinal: good call on the HQ
Jan 03 10:07:50 <rwhitby> probably still converting
Jan 03 10:07:59 <jacques> I always like seeing ppl's backgrounds
Jan 03 10:08:12 <jacques> mine is extremely boring pebbles one
Jan 03 10:09:09 <rwhitby> mine is the orange flowers, cause I'm always too lazy to change it after doctoring
Jan 03 10:09:11 <freakout> does bpadalino have  areal name?
Jan 03 10:09:16 <kmax12> jacques: i'll let you in on a secret, I changed my background right before recording
Jan 03 10:09:53 <freakout> lol
Jan 03 10:10:25 * oil just gets "an error occurred, please try again later"
Jan 03 10:10:26 <oil> damn youtube
Jan 03 10:10:34 <Jack87> haha i changed my background last night about 3 hours before the video. ifrst time i have set a custom background.
Jan 03 10:10:47 <Jack87> wait i lied my bike was my first custom background 5 months ago
Jan 03 10:10:50 <freakout> is there a name for that demo?
Jan 03 10:10:56 <freakout> or is it something bpadalino cooked up himself?
Jan 03 10:11:54 * DominganPre can't see the vid
Jan 03 10:12:31 <kmax12> if you get the "an error occurred..." try viewing it in high quality, I think youtube is still processing the video somewhat
Jan 03 10:12:32 <destinal> freakout: bpadalino did it, not sure if it was based on any examples and modified or totally from scratch
Jan 03 10:13:11 <rwhitby> I'm assuming a standard demo
Jan 03 10:13:26 <destinal> he gave it no name other than "if someone is interested in seeing an OpenGLES example"
Jan 03 10:13:29 <DominganPre> did anyone notice that after a doc pdf viewer is gone?
Jan 03 10:13:46 <destinal> might even be based on something from www.khronos.org
Jan 03 10:13:49 * rwhitby mutters about making sure source and instructions are up before youtube videos ....
Jan 03 10:13:50 <destinal> unsure
Jan 03 10:14:13 <freakout> geez, priorities, rwhitby
Jan 03 10:14:21 <destinal> rwhitby: all source and instructions are in the log, more permanent than wiki's, right? :)
Jan 03 10:14:28 <destinal> this will go down on our permanent record
Jan 03 10:14:43 <destinal> ok links to source, but still
Jan 03 10:15:01 <rwhitby> I, for one, welcome our google permanent record ...
Jan 03 10:15:43 <Jack87> rwhitby: anyway to make the homepage for quake on preware show http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Quake
Jan 03 10:15:45 <destinal> rwhitby: you go write up the wiki article based on this:  http://pastie.textmate.org/764660.txt?key=bkdtihbu5jwe0czpx0fng   and   this:   gcc -o webos-GL-demo webos-GL-demo.c  -I/usr/local/include/SDL -lSDL -lGLESv2
Jan 03 10:15:54 <destinal> I did stuff already :P
Jan 03 10:16:27 <rwhitby> Jack87: I can do that.
Jan 03 10:16:49 <rwhitby> destinal: I'm way behind the curve on the gles work today
Jan 03 10:17:12 <rwhitby> Jack87: it already does say that
Jan 03 10:17:28 <destinal> it's ok, it's 3am here, I'm totally about to crash.  I rescued my pre from never never land, so I'm happy
Jan 03 10:17:34 <seigex> destinals: just curious before you go
Jan 03 10:17:42 <destinal> even though it only 66% doctor'd, it's good to go
Jan 03 10:17:43 <seigex> err destinal*
Jan 03 10:17:51 <rwhitby> destinal: what you just pasted is good enough for me
Jan 03 10:18:13 <seigex> destinal: did anything ever come about the USB OTG stuff with the mciro ab cable?
Jan 03 10:18:18 <seigex> i'm about to go buy myself one
Jan 03 10:18:20 <rwhitby> freakout: put the code in the article ;-)
Jan 03 10:18:23 <destinal> seigex: I got it to power but not enumerate
Jan 03 10:18:24 <seigex> heard they sell them at a local hardware store here
Jan 03 10:18:47 <freakout> rwhitby: lol
Jan 03 10:18:52 <seigex> ok.. i'm going to go back to playing with it.. i've spent the last several months messing with linux drivers for work and i think i got a handle on it
Jan 03 10:18:57 <destinal> seigex: I think that's because I didn't kill the composite driver or reset it or sometthing
Jan 03 10:19:02 <freakout> destinal: thanks for the assist
Jan 03 10:19:12 <seigex> did you modprobe usb-storage?
Jan 03 10:19:13 <destinal> freakout: you're welcome
Jan 03 10:19:39 <destinal> the triangle is part of an evil conspiracy to brainwash smartphone enthusiasts.  thanks for helping.
Jan 03 10:19:47 <Jack87> rwhitby: nice :) thanks
Jan 03 10:20:06 <seigex> <-- stuck coding java for a blackberry at work :(
Jan 03 10:20:11 <seigex> i should shoot msyelf
Jan 03 10:20:12 <destinal> seigex: I didn't, no
Jan 03 10:20:13 <rwhitby> destinal: now we own their phones and their minds
Jan 03 10:20:32 <destinal> mwahahaha
Jan 03 10:21:22 <rwhitby> did kmax12 remember to add the reverse subliminal soundtrack?
Jan 03 10:21:40 <seigex> wow quake on the pre.. now if we can add servers and i can do quake team fortress on the pre :D
Jan 03 10:21:43 <destinal> seigex: echoing   host >  the usb otg dev entry  crashed my phone,   echoing  otg >   it   made it power plugged in devices
Jan 03 10:22:03 <destinal> but I never could enumerate
Jan 03 10:22:14 <destinal> I think it is lack of knowledge on my part
Jan 03 10:22:18 <seigex> ok.. i'm going to go buy a cable after work monday and i'll get back into it
Jan 03 10:22:20 <destinal> please let me know what you find
Jan 03 10:22:32 <destinal> even if just some random extra info
Jan 03 10:22:47 <seigex> i was doing fine then i just got frustrated and gave up cus all my homemade cables sucked
Jan 03 10:22:54 <seigex> well i'll get it working
Jan 03 10:23:00 <seigex> i just moved to a normal schedule
Jan 03 10:23:14 <destinal> seigex: cool, you can get the usb otg working, I'll get the bluetooth
Jan 03 10:23:16 <seigex> i got taken off of patrolling the fine streets of my county to a desk job writing software for my department
Jan 03 10:23:21 <destinal> :)
Jan 03 10:23:26 <seigex> good deal :)
Jan 03 10:23:37 <seigex> my goal is to plug a 2 tb harddrive into the pre
Jan 03 10:23:43 <seigex> :D
Jan 03 10:23:47 <DominganPre> lol
Jan 03 10:23:48 <seigex> and mount it
Jan 03 10:23:52 <freakout> article's up
Jan 03 10:23:53 <freakout> http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/10017/opengl-demod-on-palm-pre/
Jan 03 10:23:57 <destinal> seigex: strap them all together build a huge carrying case and you've got massive smartphone
Jan 03 10:24:07 <seigex> but that would open up a lot of possibilities by simply adding a hub
Jan 03 10:24:09 <freakout> a link for rwhitby, and a link for kmax12
Jan 03 10:24:22 <freakout> and pageviews for freakout! (hopefully)
Jan 03 10:25:12 <seigex> actually what i want to do is add a usb ethernet port
Jan 03 10:25:22 <destinal> seigex: that would definitely be handy
Jan 03 10:25:47 <destinal> night all
Jan 03 10:25:52 <freakout> night destinal
Jan 03 10:25:53 <seigex> yeah i'd get the full benefit of my 28 mb network at home
Jan 03 10:25:53 <seigex> night
Jan 03 10:26:06 <jacques1> jeez, maybe we're going to have to start pacing ourselves. one major breakthrough per day, and two on Sundays.
Jan 03 10:27:09 <rwhitby> jacques1: a well functioning project, firing on all fronts at once
Jan 03 10:27:38 <jacques1> 4:30am here and I need to get up tomorrow :-\
Jan 03 10:28:03 <DominganPre> yeah bit take a break and reload once in a while! :D
Jan 03 10:28:04 <rwhitby> heh - I'm the only one who has normal sleep hours ;-)
Jan 03 10:28:19 <jacques1> lol
Jan 03 10:28:35 <jacques1> switching to sleep mode
Jan 03 10:29:09 <rwhitby> g'night jacques1 - we'll get preware/cross-compile.git sorted in the next few days
Jan 03 10:29:27 <jacques1> definitely.
Jan 03 10:29:51 <jacques1> I'd like to be cross-compiling sdl / opengles test apps by sometime tomorrow.
Jan 03 10:30:03 <rwhitby> yep
Jan 03 10:30:26 <rwhitby> the 7th is only 4 days away ...
Jan 03 10:31:02 <jacques1> hmm. we should plan and prioritize to make the most of that time
Jan 03 10:31:20 <Jack87> rwhitby: game play video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBFKMNzWwgM
Jan 03 10:31:29 <Jack87> if you want to add it to the channel
Jan 03 10:31:45 <rwhitby> done
Jan 03 10:31:46 <oil> "This video is not yet processed."
Jan 03 10:31:48 <oil> grr
Jan 03 10:31:58 <Jack87> grr
Jan 03 10:32:03 <Jack87> it will show up im sure
Jan 03 10:32:26 <Jack87> oil: go now
Jan 03 10:33:25 <oil> yeah
Jan 03 10:33:35 <Jack87> i actually kill shit towards the end
Jan 03 10:33:41 <oil> looks like the touchpad aiming needs more sensitivity
Jan 03 10:33:59 <idontwan2know> I'm watching it now.
Jan 03 10:34:01 <idontwan2know> very cool
Jan 03 10:34:57 <Jack87> oil:  agreeded
Jan 03 10:35:02 <Jack87> also can be changed in options
Jan 03 10:35:12 <Jack87> but its a little glitchy when changed in options
Jan 03 10:38:01 <oil> while doom and quake are fun and cool on the pre and all
Jan 03 10:38:08 <oil> i dont see myself playing them all that much
Jan 03 10:38:13 <oil> considering i did a bunch back in the day
Jan 03 10:38:14 <oil> lol
Jan 03 10:39:35 <idontwan2know> It's more important as proof of concept than for the games themselves.
Jan 03 10:40:10 <idontwan2know> At least that's how I see it.
Jan 03 10:40:30 <kmax12> Jack87: beat me to it. here's my gameplay video...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV-fE4ZRTPc
Jan 03 10:40:42 <Jack87> max i like yours better 0
Jan 03 10:40:48 <Jack87> i dont talk lol
Jan 03 10:41:09 <kmax12> yours probably didn't take 3 takes like mine tho
Jan 03 10:41:23 <Jack87> lol nope i just spit it out
Jan 03 10:42:24 <oil> does multiplayer work?
Jan 03 10:43:11 <Jack87> dunno
Jan 03 10:43:14 <Jack87> who wants to try
Jan 03 10:43:19 <Jack87> lets give it a shot
Jan 03 10:43:19 <oil> lol
Jan 03 10:44:13 <Jack87> when i try to make a game only gives me local ip
Jan 03 10:44:29 <oil> lol
Jan 03 10:45:22 <oil> so
Jan 03 10:45:25 <oil> thats a no on working
Jan 03 10:45:43 <Jack87> who knows
Jan 03 10:45:48 <Jack87> someone try to join my ip
Jan 03 10:45:55 <Jack87> 68.27.27.116
Jan 03 10:46:07 <Jack87> whatever defauly port is
Jan 03 10:47:01 <oil> i typed it in and pressed enter
Jan 03 10:47:09 <oil> nothing is happening
Jan 03 10:47:17 <kmax12> Jack87: trying to join now
Jan 03 10:47:25 <kmax12> oil: same thing over here
Jan 03 10:47:28 <Jack87> im not holding my breath
Jan 03 10:47:33 * oil is
Jan 03 10:47:36 * oil is about to pass out
Jan 03 10:47:44 <Jack87> ya i dont think it works
Jan 03 10:47:48 <oil> i think its frozen
Jan 03 10:50:00 <Jack87> maybe next thing might be how to figure out networking on sdl apps
Jan 03 10:50:41 <rwhitby> SDL_net.h
Jan 03 10:51:27 <oil> forget quake though
Jan 03 10:51:31 <oil> freeciv, srsly
Jan 03 10:51:55 <oil> and lag won't be as much of a problem with a turn-based game
Jan 03 10:53:55 * Jack87 cant stand turn based games
Jan 03 10:54:00 <oil> psf
Jan 03 10:54:11 <oil> civilization is one of the best games
Jan 03 10:54:56 <acydlord> oil, just find the source for the maemo port of freeciv and then recompile it with the correct flags
Jan 03 10:55:08 * oil lets others handle that :)
Jan 03 10:55:56 <Jack87> ya this needs more sensativity. out then that it can be totaly playable
Jan 03 10:56:06 <Jack87> and soon i think up and down look will be added
Jan 03 10:56:30 <acydlord> i think zsoc|away was actually looking into porting freeciv, or at least he asked me about it
Jan 03 10:57:01 <oil> i was telling him to do it :)
Jan 03 10:57:12 <kmax12> well, good night everyone. http://themxweb.com/2010/01/03/quake-for-webos-on-the-palm-pre/#more-1449
Jan 03 10:57:23 <oil> being an elite webos hacker extraordinaire  and all xD
Jan 03 10:58:58 <acydlord> lol, indeed
Jan 03 11:22:57 <noaXess> hi all
Jan 03 11:23:12 <noaXess> is there a way to install 1.3.5 if it isn't on pre update?
Jan 03 11:24:00 <hucksy> for GSM pre?
Jan 03 11:24:10 <noaXess> over wifi..
Jan 03 11:24:35 * rwhitby bbt - night all
Jan 03 11:24:38 <noaXess> i'm in switzerland.. and on orange carrier..
Jan 03 11:24:43 <noaXess> by rwhitby
Jan 03 11:25:01 <hucksy> the firmware for gsm pre is not out yet
Jan 03 11:25:20 <hucksy> US only
Jan 03 11:25:25 <noaXess> hucksy: why gsm pre? don't understand..
Jan 03 11:25:37 <noaXess> is the us version of the pre another hardware?
Jan 03 11:25:45 <noaXess> or are in us other mobile networks?
Jan 03 11:25:52 <hucksy> yes
Jan 03 11:25:59 <noaXess> okay.. :).. so just wait..
Jan 03 11:26:26 <hucksy> same here ;)
Jan 03 11:26:29 <hucksy> germany
Jan 03 11:26:40 <noaXess> hucksy: do you know when it will be available for europe? have bought my pre in germany in a O2 shop.. and am in switzerland on orange :)
Jan 03 11:26:54 <noaXess> dann ist ja alles gut.. abwarten und tee trinken :)
Jan 03 11:27:03 <noaXess> or something other :)
Jan 03 11:27:12 <hucksy> hehe genau
Jan 03 11:27:18 <hucksy> yep, i think in 1 or 2 more weeks
Jan 03 11:30:41 <Karotte_exe> morning
Jan 03 11:35:27 <Karotte_exe> i found quake ^^
Jan 03 11:38:12 <hucksy> damnit
Jan 03 11:38:21 <hucksy> i need 1.3.5
Jan 03 11:47:58 <Sonny> hello all was wondering if there is a fix for friends book ?
Jan 03 11:49:41 <Sonny> or if someone can point me in the direction to find out
Jan 03 12:26:13 <hape> dtzWill: Thanks in advance for not using y and z for the contols. So it will be usable on german Pre also as soon as 1.3.5 is released by O2
Jan 03 13:15:02 <hape> some other are proting native apps too: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/222374-native-nesem-webos.html
Jan 03 14:17:27 <Abyssul_wIRC> quiet...
Jan 03 14:21:35 <Kyusaku> I wonder if they will have to create a native development forum soon
Jan 03 14:21:44 <nfoxTc> I think soo
Jan 03 14:39:28 <noaXess> hucksy: me too.. doom and queke are now available for 1.3.5.... please PALM go forward..
Jan 03 14:43:41 <cashen> Quake looks pretty darn good. very playable.
Jan 03 15:01:08 <radde> Hi there
Jan 03 15:05:13 <radde> I just found PreWare and Installed a few patches so far. But there is one problem, that irritates me. Some patches would show up after installation, even after restart the device the installed patch didn't worked.
Jan 03 15:05:53 <radde> Only after partcial reset, the patches actualy start working
Jan 03 15:06:22 <radde> but now i cant remove or update them over PreWare :/
Jan 03 15:06:31 <radde> Somebody have any suggestion?
Jan 03 15:09:10 <Abyssul_wIRC> EPR it and reinstall Preware
Jan 03 15:09:34 <Abyssul_wIRC> If that doesn't work, then try repair utility
Jan 03 15:09:46 <Abyssul_wIRC> then doctor as a last resort
Jan 03 15:10:07 <radde> EPR?
Jan 03 15:10:22 <radde> and what repair utility du you mean?
Jan 03 15:10:26 <Abyssul_wIRC> emergency patch recovery, right?
Jan 03 15:10:32 <radde> ah ok
Jan 03 15:10:48 <radde> try it now ;)
Jan 03 15:10:49 <Abyssul_wIRC> webos repair utility by canuck software
Jan 03 15:11:01 <Abyssul_wIRC> epr is in preware
Jan 03 15:18:00 <Trevoreon> I wonder what's next once quake is stable.
Jan 03 15:20:00 <radde> I wish i could play it ... but here in Germany we can't update to 1.3.5 jet. :/
Jan 03 15:20:17 <hucksy> ya, sucks
Jan 03 15:21:39 <radde> hopefuly they come out with it in here in a short space of time
Jan 03 15:22:00 <nfoxTc> quake runs pretty well good job guys
Jan 03 15:22:17 <hucksy> i think 1 or 2 more weeks
Jan 03 15:22:17 <Trevoreon> It's not quite worth playing yet. And Im sure you guys will get 1.3.5 soon. Im sure you'll have it before CES
Jan 03 15:22:44 <nfoxTc> yeah just the controls need some work I kno things are kimited on the pre though
Jan 03 15:22:48 <nfoxTc> limited*
Jan 03 15:22:48 <jettero> who maintains /etc/event.d/org.webosinternals.optware ?
Jan 03 15:22:55 <jettero> I'd like to add a line or two ...
Jan 03 15:23:07 <Trevoreon> The game has som framerate issues. And Im not sure why.
Jan 03 15:23:08 <cashen> radde: where in germany are you from?
Jan 03 15:23:34 <radde> Berlin
Jan 03 15:23:40 <hucksy> hehe
Jan 03 15:23:42 <hucksy> me too
Jan 03 15:23:54 <nfoxTc> they arent using the gpu yet trevoreon
Jan 03 15:23:58 <nfoxTc> i think thats all cpui
Jan 03 15:24:07 <radde> The world is small, some once said ;)
Jan 03 15:24:28 <radde> someone
Jan 03 15:24:29 <cashen> We traveled to Koln and Munich a few years ago during a back packing trip through europe
Jan 03 15:24:29 <hucksy> yep ;)
Jan 03 15:24:31 <Trevoreon> They have to be using the gpu. Thats what all this talk of the OpenGL files are about my friend.
Jan 03 15:25:11 <nfoxTc> oh wow
Jan 03 15:25:26 <hucksy> never visit both cities before
Jan 03 15:25:50 <cashen> munich was aweseom! we stayed at nathans villa i think
Jan 03 15:26:04 <hucksy> where are you from?
Jan 03 15:26:14 <cashen> Michigan
Jan 03 15:26:27 <MetaView> <-- goes and tries Duke3D in Classic....
Jan 03 15:26:31 <hucksy> oh cool
Jan 03 15:27:11 <Trevoreon> Thats why I cant figure out why the frame rate gets so sloppy. Im pretty sure it's using the gpu. If it is infact only using the cpu then Im not sure why we made such a big deal about  Doom and Quake in the first place.
Jan 03 15:27:17 <radde> oh damn i just read the description of the EPR where can i find these backed up ipk patch files normaly?
Jan 03 15:27:33 <nfoxTc> well they said Doom was using sdl
Jan 03 15:27:38 <nfoxTc> I know that for sure
Jan 03 15:27:56 <nfoxTc> But things should get better when palm releases an offical api
Jan 03 15:28:02 <cashen> ah, doesnt look like Nathan's villa in Munich, there isnt one.. it was wombats now that i think about it
Jan 03 15:28:11 <lt83850> doom wasnt the news of the release....sdl was
Jan 03 15:28:34 <lt83850> proof of concept type IMO, and its great :D
Jan 03 15:28:43 <nfoxTc> I agree
Jan 03 15:28:45 <nfoxTc> im excited
Jan 03 15:28:52 <Trevoreon> I know. But doom is a poor example of ability IMO
Jan 03 15:29:01 <lt83850> and i believe they said cpu only no gpu at all, so bigger future there if\when palm releases
Jan 03 15:29:04 <nfoxTc> farcry is next
Jan 03 15:29:09 <lt83850> hehe
Jan 03 15:29:17 <nfoxTc> ;)
Jan 03 15:29:18 <radde> What could it be, if i install a patch like the Advanced Device Menu and it do not show up after installation, even after restart?
Jan 03 15:29:28 <lt83850> restart luna
Jan 03 15:29:40 <radde> how do i do that?
Jan 03 15:29:54 <Trevoreon> If I see Quake running stable and I see what they do next, then I'll get exited.
Jan 03 15:30:00 <lt83850> get download luna manager via preware radde
Jan 03 15:30:17 <nfoxTc> I think we could see DC quality on the pre
Jan 03 15:30:27 <nfoxTc> but thats wishful thinking
Jan 03 15:30:37 <Trevoreon> What do you mean DC quality?
Jan 03 15:30:40 <nfoxTc> I mean its suposively faster then a psp
Jan 03 15:30:43 <nfoxTc> dreamcast
Jan 03 15:30:46 <radde> ok
Jan 03 15:30:50 <Trevoreon> Ah. Maybe.
Jan 03 15:30:58 <nfoxTc> wouldnt be bad at all
Jan 03 15:31:05 <Trevoreon> It does have a faster cpu and dedicated gpu than the psp
Jan 03 15:31:09 <nfoxTc> maybe some 2d multiplayer games too
Jan 03 15:31:18 <nfoxTc> yeah see we'll be in for a treat once the devs get apis
Jan 03 15:31:37 <Trevoreon> I would love to see a Hardware Accelerated emulator.
Jan 03 15:31:51 <nfoxTc> for what console?
Jan 03 15:32:02 <nfoxTc> I wouldnt mind having ff7 on my pre ;)
Jan 03 15:32:03 <Trevoreon> anything from snes to psx
Jan 03 15:32:07 <Trevoreon> EXACTLY
Jan 03 15:32:24 <MetaView> LJP should work, or?
Jan 03 15:32:30 <Trevoreon> Why rely soley on homebrew devs when there is a HUGE game library already out there.
Jan 03 15:32:31 <MetaView> it's snes
Jan 03 15:32:35 <nfoxTc> true
Jan 03 15:33:03 <nfoxTc> well we'll just have to wait and see, in the meantime im learning C so one daty I can contribute
Jan 03 15:33:24 <radde> aw .. i think i will reinstall WebOS for now and than installing all the patches new ... now i know how it works ;)
Jan 03 15:33:28 <Trevoreon> A gnuboy advance emulator would even be nice. It's already compiled for linux and everything.
Jan 03 15:34:04 <hape> MetaView: I'm impressed that you got the id games running in Palm OS. Untild today morning I was not awary how did it :-)
Jan 03 15:34:08 <cashen> Trevoreon: Checkout http://forums.precentral.net/webos-apps-software/222374-native-nesem-webos.html
Jan 03 15:34:12 <lt83850> its already avail for psp Trev
Jan 03 15:34:13 <Trevoreon> I would love to be a dev. I dont have the patience for that stuff though. I used to code characters for MUGEN and that was too tedious for me. Hahaha
Jan 03 15:34:22 <nfoxTc> haha
Jan 03 15:34:23 <lt83850> no upstart type icon though
Jan 03 15:34:28 <lt83850> can launch in terminal
Jan 03 15:34:37 <nfoxTc> Im going to try and start making a few personal patches maybe and learn from there
Jan 03 15:35:02 <hape> Aout 1.3.5 in Gemrnay. Somone sayd mit/end of Janaury. But I'm not sure where I read it
Jan 03 15:35:24 <radde> Is it possible to backup sms and emails from the palm ?
Jan 03 15:35:28 <radde> pre
Jan 03 15:35:50 <hape> And yes quake and doom do not use gl right now. I read all the text from the last nigt :-) (took me about 3 hours this moirniung)
Jan 03 15:35:56 <lt83850> email yes radde
Jan 03 15:36:12 <nfoxTc>  yeah so thats pretty strong performance to be software emulated
Jan 03 15:36:27 <nfoxTc> I think the only thing thats going to hold the pre back is controls
Jan 03 15:36:39 <nfoxTc> only so much interaction you can have with a  phone
Jan 03 15:36:46 <radde> how? lt83850
Jan 03 15:36:46 <lt83850> yeah
Jan 03 15:36:48 <Trevoreon> I actually think we have an advantage in that department
Jan 03 15:36:56 <nfoxTc> how so?
Jan 03 15:37:06 <Trevoreon> The iphone gets by fine and it doesnt have a keyboard.
Jan 03 15:37:11 <Trevoreon> We do.
Jan 03 15:37:16 <nfoxTc> true
Jan 03 15:37:16 <lt83850> radde, data transfer assistant
Jan 03 15:37:43 <lt83850> trevor, for touch type games i think it will be fine
Jan 03 15:37:51 <Trevoreon> Not to mention the gesture area.
Jan 03 15:37:52 <nfoxTc> is palm was smart thatd release a little Bbs micro usb control
Jan 03 15:37:56 <nfoxTc> bs*
Jan 03 15:37:59 <nfoxTc> controler*
Jan 03 15:38:06 <radde> I'm new with the Pre so i do not know actually where to find this assistant. lt83580
Jan 03 15:38:11 <lt83850> i love the gesture area, could be great for gaming
Jan 03 15:38:19 <lt83850> googleis best radde
Jan 03 15:38:30 <nfoxTc> I hear the gesture area returns regular asci values too
Jan 03 15:38:35 <radde> i understand
Jan 03 15:38:55 <lt83850> if you can't find it i will link
Jan 03 15:39:38 <radde> argh this wopuld mean google gets my data ... :/
Jan 03 15:39:45 <radde> would
Jan 03 15:40:00 <nfoxTc> huh?
Jan 03 15:40:04 <radde> isn't there a more direct way?
Jan 03 15:40:19 <lt83850> radde...no, hehe
Jan 03 15:40:22 <cashen> google better than MS (bing)
Jan 03 15:40:27 <lt83850> i meant google for the link
Jan 03 15:40:28 <lt83850> lol
Jan 03 15:40:40 <lt83850> not the assistant, backs up to outlook
Jan 03 15:40:44 <radde> than i simply delete my mails rather than upload them to google :D
Jan 03 15:40:56 <hucksy> hehe
Jan 03 15:41:12 <nfoxTc> what do you mean google gets your data
Jan 03 15:41:21 <hucksy> i need a google account for messaging
Jan 03 15:41:26 <hucksy> no jabber on pre yet
Jan 03 15:41:27 <hucksy> sucks
Jan 03 15:41:32 <lt83850> lol, he thought i was tellig him to backup for emails nfo
Jan 03 15:41:37 <nfoxTc> ooooo lol
Jan 03 15:41:49 <lt83850> i was telling him to search for link, hehe
Jan 03 15:42:10 <lt83850> i hate that there is no msn or live msger for pre
Jan 03 15:42:11 <lt83850> :S
Jan 03 15:42:14 <radde> i just read the steps need for the data transfering assistant, and it says that i have to create a google acount
Jan 03 15:42:16 <radde> now way
Jan 03 15:42:19 <nfoxTc> ugh msn
Jan 03 15:42:32 <nfoxTc> i have a hard time with m$ software
Jan 03 15:42:52 <Trevoreon> There is a game for the iphone that runs using quake 3's engine, It's been optomized for the iphone and even has multiplayer online over 3g. I would like to see that ported to the Pre
Jan 03 15:42:57 <lt83850> i use it most for IM, dont like new social media facebook, myspace etc...
Jan 03 15:43:08 <nfoxTc> i hear ya
Jan 03 15:43:30 <cashen> radde: whats wrong with google?
Jan 03 15:43:55 <hucksy> its... google
Jan 03 15:44:15 <MetaView> Classic has not enough mem
Jan 03 15:44:20 <cashen> so are you anti android?
Jan 03 15:44:29 <radde> i only use it for search, you know i better have as few accounts over the internet as possible
Jan 03 15:44:31 <nfoxTc> hey those familar with the beagle board you around?
Jan 03 15:44:32 <hucksy> mhm android is open source
Jan 03 15:44:38 <MetaView> where to get the natvie SDK stuff?
Jan 03 15:45:15 <lt83850> meta?
Jan 03 15:45:15 <cashen> huskey: but its still google
Jan 03 15:45:19 <lt83850> mojo?
Jan 03 15:45:28 <cashen> what browser do you use? please tell me IE
Jan 03 15:45:46 <lt83850> hehe, sometimes here cashen
Jan 03 15:46:34 <lt83850> google chrome i been liking since ares
Jan 03 15:46:45 <nfoxTc> oh god
Jan 03 15:46:46 <lt83850> its fast, but firefox+plugins>*
Jan 03 15:46:49 <nfoxTc> who here uses IE
Jan 03 15:47:01 <MetaView> yes?
Jan 03 15:47:02 <nfoxTc> you should be kicked off the internet...exspecialy if its IE 6
Jan 03 15:47:07 <cashen> Chrome is the bomb, i can't stand even FF now
Jan 03 15:47:12 <Trevoreon> I use Chrome. It's so fast and lightweight
Jan 03 15:47:26 <cashen> so fast
Jan 03 15:47:41 <nfoxTc> Ill give it a shot one day
Jan 03 15:47:41 <MetaView> nfoxTc: I use SeaMonkey
Jan 03 15:47:48 <nfoxTc> FF is my favorite right now
Jan 03 15:47:52 <MetaView> lt83850: yes?
Jan 03 15:48:07 <lt83850> metaview....were you looking for mojo?
Jan 03 15:48:27 <Trevoreon> You know what I just remembered?!?! Werent we told we'd get a beta of flash 10 mobile for the pre BEFORE 2010?
Jan 03 15:48:38 <cashen> Chrome is odd at first, then you just love it.
Jan 03 15:48:41 <lt83850> https://cdn.downloads.palm.com/sdkdownloads/1.3.5.368/sdkBinaries/Palm_Mojo_SDK-Win-1.3.5-368-x86.exe
Jan 03 15:48:45 <MetaView> I look for the env which is used to port Quake, Doom etc.
Jan 03 15:55:30 <hape> MetaView: they did it in a debina changeroot with some pachtes for sdl from the sdk that lt83850 points you too
Jan 03 15:59:22 <cashen> Anyone use google reader in here?
Jan 03 15:59:52 <jeffisageek> i do cashen
Jan 03 16:00:14 <radde> ok, i have to go ... thx for help everybody :)
Jan 03 16:00:19 <cashen> Just started, love it!
Jan 03 16:00:34 <Trevoreon> I need sleep
Jan 03 16:00:37 <nfoxTc> what is it?
Jan 03 16:00:46 <jeffisageek> yeah i use google reader daily, hourly, sometimes by the min :)
Jan 03 16:00:56 <MetaView> hape, lt83850: thx
Jan 03 16:02:13 <nfoxTc> whats it all about cashen?
Jan 03 16:04:04 <cashen> its like a news feed for websites
Jan 03 16:04:45 <jeffisageek> google reader is a great way to keep up with everything out there
Jan 03 16:04:48 <cashen> I have precentral, engadget, palminfocenter, failblog, peopleofwalmart, some youtube feeds
Jan 03 16:05:01 * lt83850 ponders on patch to auto-convert youtube videos to audio for music
Jan 03 16:05:08 <cashen> yes, its like (i hate the term but..) one stop shopping
Jan 03 16:05:21 <jeffisageek> i always say its like a dvr
Jan 03 16:05:47 <jeffisageek> you can get all the content and check it out whenever you want
Jan 03 16:05:58 <lt83850> cashen new engadget app is pretty sweet, check it out
Jan 03 16:06:13 <cashen> yeah, you can without it too, it just makes it much nicer to get to and read
Jan 03 16:06:19 <lt83850> they need to add zoom to article and pictures, and then it'll be perfect
Jan 03 16:06:49 <cashen> and share stories, comments, etc
Jan 03 16:06:50 <jeffisageek> anyone heard if there is a gowalla app in the making?  would love to have that for the palm pre
Jan 03 16:07:17 <cashen> sounds like foursquare
Jan 03 16:07:36 <cashen> no?
Jan 03 16:08:01 <cashen> I want footsprints
Jan 03 16:08:01 <jeffisageek> yeah it is.  a bit different but same concept
Jan 03 16:08:15 <cashen> I so wish the Pre had a compass...
Jan 03 16:08:20 <MetaView> me too
Jan 03 16:08:26 <jeffisageek> that would be nice
Jan 03 16:08:41 <lt83850> there is a pay app for it, didn't look that good
Jan 03 16:09:29 <cashen> but it still lacks the hardware of a digital compass
Jan 03 16:09:32 <Lumiere> it has a GPS device
Jan 03 16:09:42 <lt83850> yeah
Jan 03 16:09:44 <lt83850> uses gps
Jan 03 16:09:50 <cashen> gowalla looks global, i like
Jan 03 16:09:55 <MetaView> which isn't sufficient
Jan 03 16:09:58 <lt83850> not as fast, but pretty accurate
Jan 03 16:10:13 <Lumiere> MetaView: use movement to fake a compass
Jan 03 16:10:20 <MetaView> but SkyMap would never be possible as on Android
Jan 03 16:10:21 <Lumiere> not perfect but doable
Jan 03 16:10:30 <MetaView> but not the same
Jan 03 16:11:27 <cashen> foursquare and gowalla are almost opposites. Gowalla looks like it to find cool stuff and foursquare looks like it about telling of cool stuff. hmm gowalla looks like a nicer interface
Jan 03 16:12:29 <cashen> gowalla would be greta for travel. Oh icant wait for another europe trip...
Jan 03 16:13:06 <jeffisageek> also with gowalla you have to actually be at the location you check in at
Jan 03 16:13:17 <jeffisageek> foursquare i could check in anywhere i really want to
Jan 03 16:15:19 <cashen> ahh.... you have to change your "browsing content" in FS..
Jan 03 16:52:42 <destinal> so apparantly the pre as a native build environment is somewhat lacking, it likes to crash / reboot itself under extended heavy load or something
Jan 03 16:53:09 <destinal> left a dosbox compile running overnight and it didn't get far
Jan 03 16:56:23 <hape> msg MetaView Hi, wenn du noch da bist
Jan 03 16:57:56 <hape> ist so funny destinal you come back in and my day is nealy over^^
Jan 03 16:59:04 <braxton> hey
Jan 03 16:59:06 <hape> and tomorrow when i come back my backlog is so full that I need hours to read it. But ist is inressting to follow your all finding out new stuff
Jan 03 16:59:21 <braxton> has anyone ported putty to the pre?
Jan 03 17:00:13 <hape> braxton: why you sould? It is a windows and not a linux app. You can use the terminal and the ssh from openware
Jan 03 17:00:27 <jettero> hape is correct
Jan 03 17:00:29 <braxton> nice graphics thing
Jan 03 17:00:36 <braxton> like a card for ssh would be cool
Jan 03 17:00:42 <braxton> remember addresses
Jan 03 17:00:43 <braxton> et
Jan 03 17:00:44 <braxton> c
Jan 03 17:01:07 <SteveApos> Anyone having problems launching quake?
Jan 03 17:01:14 <jettero> yeah, the terminal should have various startup options... instead of a root shell, it could pop up a command (eg ssh hostname)
Jan 03 17:01:21 <braxton> the terminal app is causing me major issues on 1.5.3
Jan 03 17:01:25 <braxton> keeps freezing
Jan 03 17:01:28 <braxton> when i try to close it
Jan 03 17:01:37 <jettero> yeah, it sagfaults the lunasysmgr on mine, literally every other time
Jan 03 17:02:19 <hape> braxton: you can do some smallshell scrips for that purpose. so youonly type ssh_host.sh in the terminal..
Jan 03 17:02:57 <braxton> but terminal is broken
Jan 03 17:03:28 <hape> but over all you are right. A spacial ssh app, like puty in windows or pssh on the Palm OS would be nice
Jan 03 17:06:37 <Abyssul_wIRC> howdy
Jan 03 17:06:41 <braxton> hi
Jan 03 17:12:16 <Abyssul_wIRC> lots of news coming out of webos :)
Jan 03 17:16:50 <cashen> Abyssul_wIRC: like?
Jan 03 17:16:52 <bpadalino> hrm ..
Jan 03 17:17:19 <bpadalino> i slept for quite some time!
Jan 03 17:17:24 <Abyssul_wIRC> doom, quake, gpu news?
Jan 03 17:17:44 <cashen> Abyssul_wIRC: ah, ok, didnt know if there was somethign i missed
Jan 03 17:17:56 <Abyssul_wIRC> haha
Jan 03 17:18:05 <Abyssul_wIRC> opengl demo
Jan 03 17:18:13 <Abyssul_wIRC> I think that what it was
Jan 03 17:21:34 <Shiggity> Engadget app. I've seen few more pre users than normal posting up there the past few days.
Jan 03 17:22:41 <SteveApos> anybody figure out why some people can't get quake to load but doom starts up just fine?
Jan 03 17:23:05 <nw> did you download the update
Jan 03 17:23:18 <nw> someone tell me what my name is showing up as
Jan 03 17:23:26 <nw> my mirc client is driving my crazy
Jan 03 17:23:32 <SteveApos> it's showing up as nw
Jan 03 17:23:37 <nw> hmm
Jan 03 17:23:45 <SteveApos> which update are you referring to?
Jan 03 17:29:32 <SteveApos> any ideas to why quake would be giving me a segmentation fault?
Jan 03 17:29:41 <cashen> is  http://git.webos-internals.org/trac/preware/roadmap current?
Jan 03 17:30:07 <lt83850> SteveApos, works fine, do update feed i preware get latest booststrap and quake updates
Jan 03 17:30:58 <SteveApos> my preware says I have no available updates but I'll try reinstalling the bootstrap
Jan 03 17:36:39 <SteveApos> still getting the same issue lt83850
Jan 03 17:38:00 <Leathal> if i compile an app inside a debian chroot on the pre, is there any way to pull it out of debian so it can run outside of the chroot?
Jan 03 17:41:33 <rick_sleep> steve you haven't run mytether have you?
Jan 03 17:47:43 <destinal> Leathal: yeah, you just copy it
Jan 03 17:47:47 <destinal> Leathal: oh, you're gone
Jan 03 17:48:40 <destinal> g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus)
Jan 03 17:48:41 <rick_sleep> destinal  you creeps.  I go to bed and you figure out the fun stuff.
Jan 03 17:48:49 <destinal> something on my pre wanted it dead
Jan 03 17:49:02 <rick_sleep> literally just an appinfo.json and a type of game?
Jan 03 17:49:07 <rick_sleep> I'm blown away.
Jan 03 17:49:12 <destinal> rick_sleep: heh, I knew it was in there
Jan 03 17:49:21 <destinal> just had to hunt around a bit
Jan 03 17:49:44 <jbjoerk> :)
Jan 03 17:49:53 <rick_sleep> yeah, but I was planning on hunting around today.  :-)
Jan 03 17:49:54 <destinal> I wish now that we would have gone looking for it on DOOMsday as opposed to the upstart thing
Jan 03 17:50:05 <rick_sleep> No, this is better .
Jan 03 17:50:16 <rick_sleep> this way we get a SERIES of front page articles with our name on it.
Jan 03 17:50:28 <rick_sleep> from an evangelism perspective, this is the better way.
Jan 03 17:50:34 <rick_sleep> also, it's the way research works.
Jan 03 17:50:42 <destinal> release early, release often
Jan 03 17:50:43 <destinal> :)
Jan 03 17:50:49 <rick_sleep> nodnodnod
Jan 03 17:51:08 <Smubeht> for installing quake is it as easy as just installing through preware?  i did that and it doesnt launch..not sureif something is wrong with my pre or if i did something wrong
Jan 03 17:51:17 <Smubeht> it gives the notification message Quake starting
Jan 03 17:51:20 <Smubeht> but nothing opens up
Jan 03 17:51:33 <nfoxTc> Ive seen a couple other people with that problem
Jan 03 17:51:37 <StavrosLazos> yeah I have that same issue I can't figure it out
Jan 03 17:51:39 <nfoxTc> not sure what causes it though
Jan 03 17:51:52 <nfoxTc> do you guys have any other apps open?
Jan 03 17:51:59 <rick_sleep> nfoxTc  have you ever run mytether?
Jan 03 17:52:00 <StavrosLazos> contemplating running epr and seeing if it's related to a patch
Jan 03 17:52:02 <Smubeht> nothing else open
Jan 03 17:52:04 <nfoxTc> or are you tethered maybe that could cause some kind of confliect
Jan 03 17:52:08 <nfoxTc> conflict*
Jan 03 17:52:10 <Smubeht> i ran it right after a reboot
Jan 03 17:52:13 <destinal> rick_sleep: I've got to get distcc or otherwise cross-compile modify my autoconf stuff
Jan 03 17:52:18 <nfoxTc> if i didnt rick_sleep I wouldnt be talking to you here :)
Jan 03 17:52:21 <StavrosLazos> I've tried to open it after a fresh restart and couldn't run it
Jan 03 17:52:30 <destinal> my pre does not like being a build box, watchdogs killing off resource hogging g++
Jan 03 17:52:33 <rick_sleep> mytether causes massive conflicts with the binary apps
Jan 03 17:52:42 <Smubeht> i dont have mytether
Jan 03 17:52:45 <rick_sleep> he's breaking all sorts of palm code with what he's sticking in there.
Jan 03 17:52:54 <Robi_> uhh I can't tar up the device, it reboot/hangs every time
Jan 03 17:52:55 <Smubeht> heh
Jan 03 17:53:04 <destinal> rick_sleep: yeah, so it seems.  the kernel module specifically
Jan 03 17:53:38 <rick_sleep> Robi_ you can't tar up the entire device
Jan 03 17:53:40 <rick_sleep> and don't need to
Jan 03 17:53:51 <rick_sleep> just get /usr and /media
Jan 03 17:54:00 <StavrosLazos> I'll try getting rid of mytether I heard it was just one of the patches for it but I'll see if it's the program in general
Jan 03 17:54:15 <Robi_> i was going to avoid /sys and /proc
Jan 03 17:54:15 <nfoxTc> its not
Jan 03 17:54:15 <destinal> anyone who's having problems with doom or quake, the ultimate fix in my experience is to doctor
Jan 03 17:54:18 <rick_sleep> if you have a working mytether in 135  it kills binary .
Jan 03 17:54:22 <nfoxTc> because i have mytether and i havent had any problems
Jan 03 17:54:31 <destinal> every pre I've ever seen freshly doctored with 135 will play doom
Jan 03 17:54:31 <nfoxTc> not true
Jan 03 17:54:44 <nfoxTc> because my setup is fine and i play qake and doom
Jan 03 17:54:59 <destinal> nfoxTc: do you have the wifi fix in mytether turned on?
Jan 03 17:55:07 <nfoxTc> no
Jan 03 17:55:11 <destinal> that's why
Jan 03 17:55:12 <nfoxTc> i have the free version
Jan 03 17:55:22 <nfoxTc> for wifi tethering?
Jan 03 17:55:32 <destinal> the wifi tethering fix is a kernel module
Jan 03 17:55:47 <destinal> when people load it, SDL's /dev/fb1 breaks
Jan 03 17:55:59 <nfoxTc> ok i follow you so far
Jan 03 17:56:15 <nfoxTc> ah
Jan 03 17:56:37 <StavrosLazos> destinal I can play doom
Jan 03 17:56:43 <StavrosLazos> just not quake
Jan 03 17:57:16 <Smubeht> 3000 Autoreplace Words, 5x4 Icons v2, Audio/Video Attachments, Battery Icon as Percent, Call Duration in Call Log, Character Counter, Device Menu Remix with Flashlight, Enable Landscape Email, Enable Landscape Messaging, Enable LED Notifications, Gesture  Tap forInfo and Delete, Match State to Area Code, Power Button to End Calls, Read/Delete All Email, Replies/Forwards Black Font, Timestamps - Clean, Unhide Dev Mode Icon, Virtual
Jan 03 17:57:21 <Smubeht> thsoe are the patches i have
Jan 03 17:57:26 <Smubeht> i too can play doom just not quake
Jan 03 17:58:07 <destinal> StavrosLazos Smubeht: install terminal and cd into the quake directory and run ./quake
Jan 03 17:58:11 <destinal> ler's see what the error is
Jan 03 17:58:26 <DominganPre> its not the patches I have them and run both
Jan 03 17:58:27 <StavrosLazos> done that destinal gets segmentation fault
Jan 03 17:58:34 <StavrosLazos> after the console initializes
Jan 03 17:58:35 <destinal> huh
Jan 03 17:58:36 <Smubeht> what is the quake directory
Jan 03 17:59:13 <StavrosLazos> running manually that's what I tet
Jan 03 17:59:16 <StavrosLazos> get*
Jan 03 17:59:17 <destinal> cd /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications/org.webosinternals.sdlquake  I think
Jan 03 18:00:44 <StavrosLazos> bah I'm on my phone so I can't copy and paste it lol
Jan 03 18:01:18 <StavrosLazos> can't find gfx/pop.lmp is one of the errors
Jan 03 18:01:23 <hborders> is there a patch/app for replacing system sounds?  I saw a wiki article about doing it manually, but it would be ideal if there was a gui for it
Jan 03 18:02:11 <StavrosLazos> brb gunna restart and try something
Jan 03 18:02:18 <Smubeht> i cant run it with ./quake
Jan 03 18:04:25 <Smubeht> it says ./quake: not found
Jan 03 18:04:42 <Smubeht> im in the directory upto  org.webosinterlas.sdlquake#
Jan 03 18:04:51 <dtzWill> Smubeht: it's in 'bin' iirc
Jan 03 18:05:21 <Smubeht> how i get there?
Jan 03 18:06:13 <dtzWill> cd bin
Jan 03 18:06:15 <Smubeht> nvm
Jan 03 18:06:18 <dtzWill> no i mean it's... yeah
Jan 03 18:06:52 <Smubeht> ok so here is what i get
Jan 03 18:07:03 <Smubeht> Added packfile ./id1/pak0.pak (339 files)
Jan 03 18:07:15 <Smubeht> FindFile: can't find gfx/pop.lmp
Jan 03 18:07:19 <Smubeht> Playing shareware version.
Jan 03 18:07:36 <Smubeht> PackFile: ./id1/pak0.pak : gfx.wad
Jan 03 18:07:40 <Smubeht> Console initialized
Jan 03 18:07:45 <Smubeht> Segmentation fault
Jan 03 18:07:59 <dtzWill> Smubeht: ty for the log, i'll take a look
Jan 03 18:08:13 <dtzWill> i don't have much time, but i'll try to fix it as soon as i can :)
Jan 03 18:08:16 <Smubeht> np
Jan 03 18:08:37 <Smubeht> well just knowing some are having success with it working..is beyond great news so thanks very much =)
Jan 03 18:09:07 <StavrosLazos> welp no luck still can't get it to run
Jan 03 18:09:40 <Striker> hello all
Jan 03 18:09:43 <Smubeht> i wonder if its where it installed to..
Jan 03 18:09:47 <rick_sleep> hborders  no one has written one.
Jan 03 18:09:55 <Smubeht> i think that error comes when it tries to access memory it doesnt have access to
Jan 03 18:10:15 <hborders> rick_sleep: ok thanks.
Jan 03 18:10:28 <Striker> just have a ? a buddy told me to come here is there a coupon app for grocery stores ?
Jan 03 18:10:49 <Smubeht> well im off anyways thakns again for the cool updates on this front =)
Jan 03 18:10:52 <dtzWill> Smubeht: we know what a segfault is; the problem is that is the gfx/pop.lmp it apparently can't find
Jan 03 18:11:10 <Smubeht> oh
Jan 03 18:11:55 <StavrosLazos> dtz you think it's getting installed in the wrong spot for some people or not at all?
Jan 03 18:12:03 <StavrosLazos> I've been getting that since the demo
Jan 03 18:12:25 <dtzWill> ARGH i got to go everyone
Jan 03 18:12:26 <dtzWill> sorry
Jan 03 18:12:30 <dtzWill> i'll take a look when i got back
Jan 03 18:12:51 <Striker> does anyone no ?
Jan 03 18:13:57 <destinal> Striker: have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling?  not sure that helps, but its worth a shot
Jan 03 18:14:45 <Striker> destinal: uninstall what ?
Jan 03 18:15:02 <destinal> Striker: quake app
Jan 03 18:15:07 <destinal> via preware
Jan 03 18:15:12 <StavrosLazos> I have doesn't seem to do anything
Jan 03 18:15:28 <StavrosLazos> and I completely uninstalled mytether with no luck
Jan 03 18:15:30 <Striker> I'm not talking about quake destinal
Jan 03 18:16:19 <Striker> destinal: a buddy told me to come in here looking for a app for grocery store coupons
Jan 03 18:16:37 <Striker> that are local to me
Jan 03 18:16:58 <rick_sleep> Striker  this is definietly the wrong channel
Jan 03 18:17:23 <Striker> where do I go
Jan 03 18:18:00 <cashen> Striker: what?
Jan 03 18:18:52 <Striker> cashen: rick_sleep said I was in the wrong channel so I asked were do I go for this info
Jan 03 18:20:32 <Striker> rick_sleep: can you tell me where to go ?
Jan 03 18:20:58 <youslippin> precentral.net
Jan 03 18:21:36 <Striker> youslippin: for the app ?
Jan 03 18:22:03 <youslippin> not sure if it exists but if it does you'll find info there
Jan 03 18:22:29 <oc80z> woopty woop
Jan 03 18:22:54 <Striker> ok anything I can do to request the app youslippin
Jan 03 18:23:10 <youslippin> huh?
Jan 03 18:23:14 <Striker> oc80z: is that the app ?
Jan 03 18:24:11 <Striker> youslippin: you said precenteral.net if I don't find the app can I request it there ?
Jan 03 18:24:18 <destinal> rick_sleep: so, not only will it kill g++ when it's using all reseources, but if I stop luna to gain more,  the device will reboot itself soon after
Jan 03 18:24:29 <destinal> rick_sleep: it's very much not happy with what I want it to do
Jan 03 18:25:35 <youslippin> check the precentral forums.....
Jan 03 18:26:06 <Striker> youslippin: ok so I can make a request there than correct
Jan 03 18:28:43 <cal_> hmm, after updating to 1.3.5 webos quick install does not detect my phone, any ideas?
Jan 03 18:29:14 <oc80z> whats good?
Jan 03 18:29:36 <oc80z> cal_ disable NDIS tether b/s
Jan 03 18:29:38 <oc80z> restart the novacom service
Jan 03 18:30:14 <cal_> ndis? you mean mytether?
Jan 03 18:30:20 <destinal> 2010-01-03T18:21:55.609130Z [99] castle user.err UpdateDaemon: syncdata failed.
Jan 03 18:30:20 <destinal> 2010-01-03T18:21:55.609741Z [99] castle user.err UpdateDaemon: Is an external package installed in rootfs?
Jan 03 18:30:34 <destinal> oh, boy are they
Jan 03 18:33:25 <danstah> so when should we expect to see quake and doom work without the upstart service?
Jan 03 18:33:45 <cal_> oc80z: what do you mean by ndis tether
Jan 03 18:33:48 <Robi_> rick_sleep: /usr and /media you say, what about where the sqlite db is, isn't that in /var ?
Jan 03 18:35:00 <destinal> danstah: we've got that figured out and they shouldn't even need postinst.
Jan 03 18:35:14 <destinal> rwhitby was saying the app launches a little slower
Jan 03 18:35:24 <destinal> and of course you can only open one at a time
Jan 03 18:36:49 <danstah> I am way excited for it.. Really opens up a ton of possibilities.
Jan 03 18:37:19 <danstah> I just looked and saw the one on preware still requires upstart. wonder when we'll see it hit the feeds
Jan 03 18:37:21 <destinal> s/one at/one instance of a given app/
Jan 03 18:37:22 <infobot> destinal meant: and of course you can only open one instance of a given app a time
Jan 03 18:37:55 <destinal> bbl, errands
Jan 03 18:40:00 <radde> mh ... using the luna manager, to restart luna, didn't solve my Problem with most of the patches :/
Jan 03 18:41:17 <radde> For example, if i try to install the Advanced Phone Menu it do not start after installing, regardless what i do, exept doing a partial delete of the device
Jan 03 18:42:10 <radde> but after this PreWare do not longer know that this patch was installed and i can't reinstall or delete them
Jan 03 18:42:46 <radde> this is really disturbing
Jan 03 18:43:01 <radde> anybody have any other suggestions?
Jan 03 18:47:10 <radde> could it be, that many of these patches are created for WebOS 1.3.5 and since i'm restricted to 1.3.1 that i have problems with getting them to work?
Jan 03 18:48:23 <cal_> when i go to 'device management' on webos quick install, the list of apps is empty. Trying to remove old preware after phone updated to 1.3.5..?
Jan 03 18:53:36 <nfoxTc> you know would be a nice control setup for a fps?
Jan 03 18:54:21 <nfoxTc> touch screen to look around right side of gesture area (or top depending how you hold the phone) left for back and you could tap to shoot
Jan 03 18:54:39 <nfoxTc> right side = foward
Jan 03 19:00:35 <radde> damn, nobody has any suggestions for my problem?
Jan 03 19:05:42 <ird> radde: preware only installs patches for your current version of webos.
Jan 03 19:06:03 <ird> so no matter what version (I'm not sure how far back they go) but it should install the right version.
Jan 03 19:06:22 <radde> i know ... but i found no other way asking for help. :/
Jan 03 19:07:07 <ird> I'm not sure. I think rwhitby was talking about some problems on the server side of things but I can't remember.
Jan 03 19:07:19 <ird> I don't know enough about how it all works to help too much.
Jan 03 19:08:59 <radde> You know, it is really distrurbing, that i have to perform a partial delete in order to get these patches to work propper. :/
Jan 03 19:11:09 <ird> idk
Jan 03 19:11:12 <ird> It's always worked fine for me.
Jan 03 19:11:21 <ird> 90% of problems are caused by the end user :p
Jan 03 19:11:53 <radde> :D
Jan 03 19:12:40 <radde> i'm confident that i do not make some stupid mistakes  :/
Jan 03 19:13:46 <Lumiere> there was a bug in ipkgservice 0.9.27 fixed today
Jan 03 19:13:54 <KEYofR> My dad use to repair tv's and the favorite phrase was "A little knowledge will kill you." ;)
Jan 03 19:14:11 <radde> narf
Jan 03 19:14:14 <Lumiere> relating to deleteing packages
Jan 03 19:39:29 <jmyaonpalmpre> what's up guys?
Jan 03 19:39:51 <kesne> Who is guys? Can I be guys?
Jan 03 19:40:15 <danstah_> is anyone using the smart reflex 500 patch still??
Jan 03 19:41:04 <danstah_> Is it right to assume that the smart relfex is not the problem with these patches and that the change of cpu frequency is why people are having issues with the other ones
Jan 03 19:41:17 <kesne> danstah_: The dangerous one that got pulled?
Jan 03 19:41:36 <danstah_> the 500 SR one is still on preware
Jan 03 19:41:47 <jmyaonpalmpre> did anyone read precentrals story and think something was missing?
Jan 03 19:42:09 <kesne> jmyaonpalmpre: What exactly did you think was missing?
Jan 03 19:43:22 <jmyaonpalmpre> referance of wdtz
Jan 03 19:44:53 <oc80w> what's hood
Jan 03 19:47:03 <Abyssul_wIRC> man I love this 1.3.5 update. so much smoother
Jan 03 19:47:15 <sportman> when di u guys do quake?
Jan 03 19:47:17 <Abyssul_wIRC> can't wait for CES
Jan 03 19:47:21 <sportman> fucken great job
Jan 03 19:47:34 <Abyssul_wIRC> yesterday
Jan 03 19:48:04 <jmyaonpalmpre> about 4 am lol
Jan 03 19:49:19 <windzilla> I downloaded quake around 4:30 am last night, didn't get back to sleep till 8
Jan 03 19:49:36 <sportman> lol
Jan 03 19:49:38 <windzilla> thanks now I'm tired and late, thanks guys
Jan 03 19:50:52 <jmyaonpalmpre> I am just getting up now it's 250pm I was up till about 6 with quake lol
Jan 03 19:50:59 <Abyssul_wIRC> it too dark for me to play
Jan 03 19:51:16 <jmyaonpalmpre> to dark????
Jan 03 19:51:57 <jmyaonpalmpre> even with brightness on 1 I could still see it
Jan 03 19:52:06 <Abyssul_wIRC> I can barely see the environment
Jan 03 19:52:12 <danstah_> i am just waiting til i don't need to use the upstart service to launch it. Not because i have anything against it or anything
Jan 03 19:52:26 <Abyssul_wIRC> might be the sun glare or something
Jan 03 19:52:40 <kesne> You don't need upstart
Jan 03 19:52:52 <jmyaonpalmpre> yo don't now !!!!! lol
Jan 03 19:52:57 <kesne> I tried to repackage as a game and stuff
Jan 03 19:52:58 <danstah_> kesne, preware still says it needs it
Jan 03 19:53:02 <kesne> I couldnt get it working
Jan 03 19:53:08 <kesne> The preware version does need it
Jan 03 19:53:27 <jmyaonpalmpre> why don't you want upstart may I ask?
Jan 03 19:53:41 <kesne> If anyone gives me a non-upstart version, I'll gladly submit to the App Catalog just to mess with them ;)
Jan 03 19:53:45 <danstah_> i dunno. i just looked right now and it still says it depends on upsatart
Jan 03 19:54:35 <danstah_> jmyaonpalmpre, no reason really
Jan 03 19:55:15 <jmyaonpalmpre> then ur missing a whole bunch of phone for "no reason really"
Jan 03 19:55:35 <jmyaonpalmpre> fun **
Jan 03 19:55:51 <danstah_> jmyaonpalmpre, i figure it'll come out quick w/o the jumpstart so i mights as well just get it when it doesn't need the service
Jan 03 19:57:05 <kesne> Is the guy that "ported" quake in here?
Jan 03 19:57:18 <jmyaonpalmpre> I'm not sure what you think the quake ap does but ....you press app and you play no need for anything else ....stuff happens in background I guess
Jan 03 19:59:19 <Jack87> kesne: he is set away. it was dtzWill|away
Jan 03 20:00:24 <kesne> Oh okay
Jan 03 20:00:30 <hape> kesne: No dtzWill|away is still away ;)
Jan 03 20:00:38 <kesne> I really want to submit quake to Palm
Jan 03 20:00:44 <kesne> Watch the reviews flip out
Jan 03 20:00:46 <Jack87> kesne: you shold be able to pull the files from bin and package it
Jan 03 20:00:50 <kesne> *reviewers
Jan 03 20:00:54 <kesne> Jack87: I could
Jan 03 20:00:56 <kesne> But
Jan 03 20:00:57 <Jack87> to test... have you tested your method yet?
Jan 03 20:01:08 <kesne> I want his permission
Jan 03 20:01:09 <kesne> And
Jan 03 20:01:16 <kesne> I tried it and couldnt get it working
Jan 03 20:01:40 <kmax12|sleeping> kesne: what did you try?
Jan 03 20:01:47 <Jack87> okay. ya for testing reasons that is
Jan 03 20:02:06 <kesne> Changing type to game and main pointing to the ARM quake binary
Jan 03 20:02:35 <egaudet_wirc> kesne that won't work
Jan 03 20:02:40 <Jack87> hum. rwhitby was the one that orignally packaged it
Jan 03 20:03:01 <egaudet_wirc> the PWD must contain the .wad file
Jan 03 20:03:02 <kesne> egaudet_wirc: well, when the app didnt launch I figured
Jan 03 20:03:07 <kesne> Oh
Jan 03 20:03:22 <egaudet_wirc> a wrapper script to cd then run it is needed
Jan 03 20:03:30 <egaudet_wirc> and main points to that
Jan 03 20:03:44 <kesne> Okay
Jan 03 20:03:47 <Jack87> anyone know why doom startsfor some but quake doesnt?
Jan 03 20:04:15 <kesne> Where the hell is rwhitby
Jan 03 20:04:18 <kesne> He did this originally
Jan 03 20:04:24 <kesne> He probably has the IPK
Jan 03 20:04:34 <Jack87> i dunno he should of been here an hour ago he is late!
Jan 03 20:04:42 <Jack87> rwhitby: you are fired! ;)
Jan 03 20:04:58 <Shiggity_> Blast. Komodo edit won't launch anything into the emulator. No output or anything.
Jan 03 20:05:22 <egaudet_wirc> it's like 6am or somethin right
Jan 03 20:05:26 <kesne> 7am
Jan 03 20:05:33 <kesne> Where he lives
Jan 03 20:05:38 <kesne> 12PM over here
Jan 03 20:05:46 <Jack87> egaudet_wirc: its 7 he should be up by now
Jan 03 20:05:58 <kesne> I got up an hour ago
Jan 03 20:06:00 <Jack87> unless he spent all night playing with his findings
Jan 03 20:06:02 <kesne> so 11
Jan 03 20:06:04 <kesne> :P
Jan 03 20:06:17 <kesne> Though, it's monday for him
Jan 03 20:06:20 <Jack87> haha half hour ago for me. but i was also up all night testing quake
Jan 03 20:06:31 <Jack87> kesne: that is true.. omnday
Jan 03 20:06:45 <kesne> I fell asleep around 1 or 2
Jan 03 20:06:51 <kesne> Woke up at 11
Jan 03 20:07:06 <Jack87> so options menu let you customize keys
Jan 03 20:07:10 <kesne> Though, I am 15, so I'm sure that has something to do with it
Jan 03 20:07:47 <Jack87> still cant figure out why no custom settings stick and autoexec doesnt work
Jan 03 20:08:17 <kesne> Arg, I also need an app icon for quake
Jan 03 20:08:47 <Jack87> kesne: are you calling me old?
Jan 03 20:09:11 <Jack87> how about penguin with quake symbol on belly
Jan 03 20:09:12 <Jack87> i like that :)
Jan 03 20:09:29 <kesne> Jack87: That would work
Jan 03 20:09:41 <kesne> The thing is they wont accept it anyway.
Jan 03 20:09:43 <Jack87> who is making these icons
Jan 03 20:10:39 <kesne> That is a good question
Jan 03 20:18:18 <Shiggity_> Well, isn't there a license issue with the WAD file?
Jan 03 20:18:58 <Shiggity_> I mean, if you aren't distributing the copyrighted WAD, I don't see why it couldn't be submitted like Need4Speed will be.
Jan 03 20:19:54 <Shiggity_> Also, I may have been using Visual Studio for too long. Both eclipse and Komodo edit are throwing me for a loop here :-\
Jan 03 20:20:46 <Jack87> kesne: http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/webos-internals/39729d1262549997-quake-quake-icon-copy.png
Jan 03 20:21:26 <JMyaDaGod> i like that one
Jan 03 20:21:56 <Jack87> little quicky i just mad
Jan 03 20:21:57 <Jack87> made
Jan 03 20:22:04 <Jack87> i dunno if its bad to use quake logo or not
Jan 03 20:23:45 <Jack87> i can resize if needed not sure what pixels thes icons are
Jan 03 20:28:09 <Jack87> this one has nose over the steak http://forums.precentral.net/attachments/webos-internals/39730d1262550441-quake-quake-icon2-copy.png
Jan 03 20:34:00 <cal_> where is the 64bit linux version of novacom
Jan 03 20:38:13 <Lumiere> compile one?
Jan 03 20:41:23 <Jack87> hey is it good to run migration tool before or after 1.3.5 update
Jan 03 20:43:49 <Jost> Hi. Can anyone give me some help on how to get Quake to run on my Pre? It just won't start.
Jan 03 20:46:48 <gkatsev> Jost: how did you install it? from preware?
Jan 03 20:47:03 <StavrosLazos> not sure we've figured that out yet Jost I still can't get mine working either
Jan 03 20:47:18 <gkatsev> Jost: make sure to install the upstart manager service
Jan 03 20:48:15 <Jack87> Jost: its known that if you have the My Tether Wifi patch installed the game will not run. so make sure the wifi patch in my tether is not installed.
Jan 03 20:48:28 <Jost> Yes I installed via preware - and it installed the upstart manager service
Jan 03 20:48:47 <gkatsev> Jost: still doesnt work?
Jan 03 20:48:48 <Jack87> Jost: does doom work?
Jan 03 20:48:59 <StavrosLazos> I've been having that same issue since the demo
Jan 03 20:49:08 <Jost> I have no my tether patch installed
Jan 03 20:49:21 <Jost> I ll test doom right now
Jan 03 20:49:47 <egaudet_wirc> Jack87: shouldn't matter re: emh
Jan 03 20:50:04 <Jack87> egaudet_wirc: thanks
Jan 03 20:50:19 <StavrosLazos> doom works for me but quake gives a can't find gfx/pop.lmp error
Jan 03 20:50:31 <egaudet_wirc> cal_: I don't think there's 64bit novacom you need 32bit libs I believe
Jan 03 20:50:51 <Jack87> i cant figure out why doom works for some and not others... anyone have any idea
Jan 03 20:50:59 <gkatsev> yeah, you install via --force-architecture or w/e
Jan 03 20:51:41 <Jack87> cal_: http://vz.aonic.net/pre/NovacomInstaller_x64.msi give that a shot. i think it acts funny on win7
Jan 03 20:51:47 <StavrosLazos> only thing I can't figure out is why doom works fine and quake doesnt
Jan 03 20:52:06 <gkatsev> StavrosLazos: try restarting? reinstalling?
Jan 03 20:52:15 <egaudet_wirc> quake is still just a demo right?
Jan 03 20:52:26 <Jack87> egaudet_wirc: quake is playable
Jan 03 20:52:28 <Abyssul> Jack87: Is that link a breach of copyright?
Jan 03 20:52:29 <StavrosLazos> tried both
Jan 03 20:52:38 <Jack87> egaudet_wirc: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application:Quake#Known_Issues
Jan 03 20:52:51 <egaudet_wirc> Jack87: cal_ was asking for linux 64 bit
Jan 03 20:52:54 <StavrosLazos> reinstalling restarting deleting mytether all together nothing seems to work
Jan 03 20:53:35 <Jost> Doom doesn't start either. The notification area shows a message for the split of a second. But it's gone too fast to be able to read it.
Jan 03 20:53:53 <cal_> jack: using linux
Jan 03 20:54:02 <StavrosLazos> if you can't get either sounds like the upstart issue someone in the forums had
Jan 03 20:54:16 <gkatsev> cal_: ubuntu? install ia-32 and then install via --force-architecture
Jan 03 20:54:27 <StavrosLazos> reinstall quake doom and the upstart from webosqi jost
Jan 03 20:54:29 <StavrosLazos> and see if it works
Jan 03 20:54:37 <gkatsev> or from preware, lol
Jan 03 20:54:51 <cal_> gkatsev : yeah i did.. but it did this:
Jan 03 20:55:02 <cal_> Setting up palm-novacom (1.0.46) ...
Jan 03 20:55:02 <cal_> stop: Unknown job: palm-novacomd
Jan 03 20:55:02 <cal_> Killed novacomd(2511) with signal 15
Jan 03 20:55:02 <cal_> start: Unknown job: palm-novacomd
Jan 03 20:55:31 <gkatsev> does novaterm work?
Jan 03 20:55:32 <StavrosLazos> gkatsev: only said qi because someone said it didn't work from preware but worked when he reinstalled with webosqi
Jan 03 20:55:44 <cal_> gkatsev : only if i start novacomd manually
Jan 03 20:55:55 <gkatsev> StavrosLazos: i installed quake and doom via preware and both work
Jan 03 20:55:57 <cal_> for some reason it didnt create the autostart stuff
Jan 03 20:56:21 <StavrosLazos> it's not on everyones phones akatsev.
Jan 03 20:56:30 <StavrosLazos> I know mine personally won't run quake but plays doom
Jan 03 20:56:35 <gkatsev> StavrosLazos: well, why not. :)
Jan 03 20:56:37 <StavrosLazos> and both mine were preware
Jan 03 20:56:44 <egaudet_wirc> cal_: do initctl --reload-configuration
Jan 03 20:56:53 <egaudet_wirc> then start palm-novacomd
Jan 03 20:57:15 <cal_> i have to do sudo /opt/Palm/novacom/novacomd
Jan 03 20:57:17 <StavrosLazos> because preware hates me and doesn't want me to enjoy quake :)
Jan 03 20:57:21 <cal_> ok
Jan 03 20:58:06 <cal_> cal@ubuntu:~/pre_apps$ sudo initctl --reload-configuration
Jan 03 20:58:07 <cal_> initctl: invalid option: --reload-configuration
Jan 03 20:58:59 <cal_> did it without the -- and it worked (checked help)
Jan 03 20:59:14 <egaudet> sorry yea
Jan 03 20:59:24 <cal_> cal@ubuntu:~/pre_apps$ start palm-novacom
Jan 03 20:59:26 <cal_> start: Unknown job: palm-novacom
Jan 03 20:59:30 <egaudet> start palm-novacomd
Jan 03 20:59:38 <egaudet> forgot the d
Jan 03 20:59:47 <cal_> ok that worked
Jan 03 21:00:05 <cal_> so why did the dpkg fail to install the start script?
Jan 03 21:00:14 <cal_> and will this autostart on reboot now too?
Jan 03 21:01:43 <cal_> crap
Jan 03 21:02:57 <cal_> egaudet: the whole reason I did this was that my user-installed content list is empty.. under device management on webos quick install. I thought maybe i needed to upgrade novacom. its still empty however. I need to remove preware and reinstall after I did the pre update. any ideas?
Jan 03 21:04:31 <egaudet> the dpkg installs the upstart configuration file but never reloads the configuration so upstart doesn't know it exists until you do.
Jan 03 21:04:37 <egaudet> can you novaterm?
Jan 03 21:04:55 <egaudet> QI 2.96 or later, or novaterm and use the bootstrap script
Jan 03 21:05:08 <cal_> yeah i can novaterm
Jan 03 21:05:15 <cal_> and the terminal in webos quick install works
Jan 03 21:05:25 <cal_> just no app list under 'device management'
Jan 03 21:05:27 <egaudet> http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Preware#Installing.2FUpdating_via_Automated_Script_.28Bootstrap.29
Jan 03 21:06:05 <egaudet> I don't know anything about QI though
Jan 03 21:06:11 <cal_> (I didnt remove patches/themes/etc it updated on me when I didnt want it too)
Jan 03 21:07:54 <egaudet> after you get preware back running from the boostrap, install EMH to make sure migration goes through, and then install EPR to remove all patches
Jan 03 21:08:03 <cal_> i will try running EPL
Jan 03 21:08:11 <cal_> err EPR
Jan 03 21:08:34 <cal_> what is EMH?
Jan 03 21:08:58 <Skinneejay> Hello?
Jan 03 21:11:01 <Jost> Sorry, I have to ask that stupid question: Where do I get the install file for quake when I want to install it with webosqi?
Jan 03 21:12:04 <Skinneejay> Not sure if anyone is in here except you and I
Jan 03 21:13:56 <Skinneejay> My question has to do with Preware not quake
Jan 03 21:14:02 <kesne> Is that Jack guy still here?
Jan 03 21:14:22 <rick-home> Skinneejay  what is your question
Jan 03 21:14:37 <rick-home> Jost please don't try to install it via webos quick install.
Jan 03 21:14:46 <rick-home> Please use preware, it's optimized for preware.
Jan 03 21:15:04 <rick-home> Skinneejay there's a lot of people who are here, but not nessesarily at their keyboards
Jan 03 21:15:15 <Jack87> whats up kesne
Jan 03 21:15:24 <Skinneejay> I had to doctor my phone, So I reinstalled Preware and when I go back into the patches it shows I have them installed which I don't and
Jan 03 21:15:28 <rick-home> Jost if you have to use webosquickinstall it's in the webos-internals feeds.
Jan 03 21:15:30 <Jost> Well, it doesn't work when I install it with Preware
Jan 03 21:15:47 <bpadalino> wow .. we were at 140 users for quite a while .. not we're up at 172 .. i think we spiked around 200 way back when the pre first came out and we started out with it
Jan 03 21:15:50 <rick-home> jost, then it won't work with you install it with webos-quick install
Jan 03 21:15:57 <Jost> okay
Jan 03 21:16:05 <rick-home> jost what happens?
Jan 03 21:16:11 <rick-home> pre or pixie,
Jan 03 21:16:16 <Jost> pre
Jan 03 21:16:21 <rick-home> and do you have mytether installed?
Jan 03 21:16:26 <Jost> no
Jan 03 21:16:27 <ird> rick-home: so with the new upstart service. Does this open up the possibility for native homebrew?
Jan 03 21:16:28 <cal_> jack87: do i need to reinstall mytether after upgrading to 1.3.5?
Jan 03 21:16:48 <rick-home> ird,  the point is that quake and doom ARE native hombrew aren't they?
Jan 03 21:16:55 <Jack87> cal_: yes
Jan 03 21:17:12 <Jost> the notfication area displays a message very quick. Too fast to read. That's it.
Jan 03 21:17:15 <ird> rick-home: well, yes. But I meant more like native app, not games.
Jan 03 21:17:24 <rick-home> ird - as long as your app uses sdl, then launching it to a card is dead simple.
Jan 03 21:17:24 <ird> So I guess I answered my own question.
Jan 03 21:17:29 <ird> ah
Jan 03 21:17:30 <ird> ok
Jan 03 21:17:34 <rick-home> but ird, they ARE apps.
Jan 03 21:17:40 <ird> yeah
Jan 03 21:17:47 <rick-home> yeah
Jan 03 21:17:51 <gkatsev> yeah
Jan 03 21:17:53 <ird> sure
Jan 03 21:17:54 <Skinneejay> I had to doctor my phone, So I reinstalled Preware and when I go back into the patches it shows I have them installed which I don't
Jan 03 21:17:58 <rick-home> now,  be aware,  if your app is not sdl, then it's going to be a no-go
Jan 03 21:18:13 <gkatsev> Skinneejay: restart luna
Jan 03 21:18:14 <rick-home> which means, we have NOT got an x-windows server for webos
Jan 03 21:18:16 <ird> That's what I was thinking, thanks rick-home
Jan 03 21:18:22 <rick-home> it's going to have to be direct sdl
Jan 03 21:18:36 <rick-home> x-sdl is a very very dead project, but we might revive it.
Jan 03 21:18:41 <Skinneejay> I tried that twice already. Let me try one more time.
Jan 03 21:18:43 <ird> why would you need an x server?
Jan 03 21:18:48 <ird> Isn't that pretty much what luna does?
Jan 03 21:18:52 <rick-home> if you wanted to run x apps
Jan 03 21:18:58 <gkatsev> Skinneejay: try restarting the phone itself, if luna restart didnt work
Jan 03 21:19:00 <ird> oh okay
Jan 03 21:19:05 <rick-home> luna is a window manager, but it is not an X-windows window manager
Jan 03 21:19:15 <rick-home> so, you can't run x-apps.
Jan 03 21:19:47 <cal_> jack87: is there a way to do that from terminal instead of windows installer? (full version)
Jan 03 21:20:12 <ird> rick-home: I didn't know people actually wanted to run x apps :p
Jan 03 21:20:28 <rick-home> there are a LOT of x apps out there.
Jan 03 21:20:53 <rick-home> ok
Jan 03 21:21:00 <rick-home> bbiab - gotta go run errands
Jan 03 21:21:45 <Skinneejay> Do you have any other options if the restart doesn't work?
Jan 03 21:22:21 <ird> If you've tried reinstalling, restarting (luna and the phone), i'd say to webos doctor, but someone can probably help you troubleshoot without going that far.
Jan 03 21:22:37 <ird> I'm not the right person to be answering questions about this :p
Jan 03 21:22:49 <gkatsev> so, anyone porting quake 2 and 3 over to the pre?
Jan 03 21:22:59 <Skinneejay> I hope i don't have to doctor again. :(
Jan 03 21:23:11 <egaudet> Skinneejay, doctoring will not solve your issue
Jan 03 21:23:25 <ird> egaudet: thanks :)
Jan 03 21:23:44 <Skinneejay> Yea still shows up. Its so weird
Jan 03 21:23:50 <egaudet> the issue is created because the doctor installed all new Palm stock files that the patches patched.  But the doctor doesn't wipe /media/internal which is where the ipkg data is stored.
Jan 03 21:24:15 <egaudet> there are 2 things you can try... brb door
Jan 03 21:24:27 <Skinneejay> k
Jan 03 21:24:32 <Abyssul> woot woot, animated emoticons in Messaging app
Jan 03 21:24:45 <ird> now all we need is duke nukem :D
Jan 03 21:25:06 <gkatsev> duke nukem 3d? yes please
Jan 03 21:25:20 <gkatsev> wolfenstein 3d?
Jan 03 21:25:21 <ird> someone said there was an oss duke game that used sdl
Jan 03 21:25:30 <gkatsev> yes, i believe there is
Jan 03 21:27:17 <gkatsev> there is alephone/sdl (marathon) the precursor to halo
Jan 03 21:28:05 <bpadalino> it's not just SDL you have to worry about .. it's GLES instead of GL as well .. :(
Jan 03 21:28:21 <MetaView> I vote for Hexen2 :D
Jan 03 21:28:25 <egaudet> Skinneejay, so you can fix it via command line, or you can do partial erase which will wipe out all apps including preware
Jan 03 21:28:29 <bpadalino> which, unfortunately, is not trivial
Jan 03 21:28:44 <Skinneejay> mmm
Jan 03 21:28:49 <Skinneejay> which one is easier?
Jan 03 21:28:54 <Skinneejay> and safer
Jan 03 21:29:16 <gkatsev> bpadalino: but isnt having it sdl already half the battle?
Jan 03 21:29:22 <egaudet> command line will keep preware so it's better IMO
Jan 03 21:29:51 <ird> arg
Jan 03 21:29:51 <Skinneejay> if I choose to do it command line what do i need to do?
Jan 03 21:29:52 <bpadalino> gkatsev: indeed SDL is half the battle .. especially if all IO (audio, joystick, video, etc) go through there ..
Jan 03 21:29:58 <ird> the incresed threshold patch is stuck on :(
Jan 03 21:30:05 <coles> anyone thinking of porting frozen bubble? it's already SDL
Jan 03 21:30:34 <coles> (though I'm still waiting for 1.3.5 in the UK, grrr)
Jan 03 21:30:34 <bpadalino> oh frozen bubble looks like puzzle bobble which i love to play
Jan 03 21:30:47 <gkatsev> bpadalino: yep
Jan 03 21:30:54 <gkatsev> bpadalino: port it over :)
Jan 03 21:30:55 <MetaView> a nice SDL-game: Crimson Fields
Jan 03 21:31:59 <egaudet> Skinneejay, novaterm in or via terminal type:  ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove *patches*
Jan 03 21:32:13 <egaudet> Only ever do that after a doctor when you know files are stock
Jan 03 21:33:15 <Skinneejay> yea I just doctored my phone since my universal search wasn't working right. so I just go into terminal and type ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps remove *patches*
Jan 03 21:33:17 <Skinneejay> thats it?
Jan 03 21:34:04 <bpadalino> haha, frozen bubble is acdtually a hell of a lot of perl ..
Jan 03 21:34:05 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 03 21:37:11 <kesne> Anyone want to package a non-upstart quake for me?
Jan 03 21:38:13 <zsoc> zomg hi
Jan 03 21:38:45 <Skinneejay> @egaudet do I need to type anything else after that runs?
Jan 03 21:39:25 <Skinneejay> Should I do a restart or just close terminal?
Jan 03 21:41:04 <pete27> I've got an OpenGL ES/SDL WWII touch-only tower defense that I initially wrote for the iPhone (replaced the SDL layer with native iphone Obj-C apis).  Is there a doc on how to set up a compiling environment so I can build this and run it like Quake/Doom or is this more difficult than just linking/compiling against the correct libSDL/libGL and SDL.h and GL.h?
Jan 03 21:41:08 <egaudet> just fire up preware and update feeds
Jan 03 21:41:11 <egaudet> they should all be gone
Jan 03 21:41:41 <bpadalino> pete27: basically that's it ..
Jan 03 21:42:01 <bpadalino> #include "SDL.h" and "SDL_video.h" .. open the video mode
Jan 03 21:42:15 <Skinneejay> Your a lifesaver my friend. It looks all good!
Jan 03 21:42:15 <ird> are quake and doom hardware accelerated?
Jan 03 21:42:20 <Skinneejay> Thank you a ton!
Jan 03 21:43:10 <bpadalino> ird, i am not sure .. a good amount of it is abstracted away through SDL ...
Jan 03 21:43:29 <ird> bpadalino: ah
Jan 03 21:43:33 <bpadalino> the SDL libs use the graphics hardware ..
Jan 03 21:43:34 <pete27> ird: how could they run that fast without accel?
Jan 03 21:43:35 <ird> I was under the impression that it was all gpu
Jan 03 21:44:03 <bpadalino> but i don't think they are opengl(es) ..
Jan 03 21:44:18 <pete27> bpadalino: then what would they be?
Jan 03 21:44:25 <pete27> SDL just allows you to draw sprites
Jan 03 21:44:45 <bpadalino> pete, well - doom was originally released on 486's .. right ?
Jan 03 21:44:48 <pete27> do quake and doom project 3d triangles manually with sprites?
Jan 03 21:44:53 <bpadalino> and quake on pentiu 133's ?
Jan 03 21:45:08 <pete27> I don't remember, I guess it was that long ago
Jan 03 21:45:30 <bpadalino> system requirements for doom
Jan 03 21:45:31 <bpadalino> System requirements 	80386 class CPU, 4 MB RAM
Jan 03 21:45:48 <pete27> damn 1996
Jan 03 21:45:55 <pete27> for quake
Jan 03 21:46:00 <bpadalino> yeah ..
Jan 03 21:46:09 <bpadalino> so the processor there is quite capable of playing this
Jan 03 21:46:11 <pete27> So they just do some nifty ath and draw sprites
Jan 03 21:46:13 <pete27> cool
Jan 03 21:46:25 <bpadalino> q3 arena would be an interesting "port"
Jan 03 21:46:31 <pete27> Should I try and bother with opengl es yet?
Jan 03 21:46:33 <bpadalino> i saw there is a nokia n900 port .. but i haven't found the source
Jan 03 21:46:38 <bpadalino> pete27: yeah, opengles works ..
Jan 03 21:46:43 <pete27> cool
Jan 03 21:46:52 <bpadalino> there is a demo program i modified to work with SDL and draws to the screen
Jan 03 21:47:02 <bpadalino> you need the shader stuff tho ..
Jan 03 21:47:04 <pete27> i saw that
Jan 03 21:47:13 <pete27> shaders work?
Jan 03 21:47:18 <pete27> great
Jan 03 21:47:24 <pete27> Think theres a way to steal audio data so I can get projectM to work?
Jan 03 21:47:36 <bpadalino> projectM ?
Jan 03 21:47:49 <pete27> http://projectm.sf.net
Jan 03 21:48:06 <pete27> Milkdrop reimplemented in OpenGL. Music Viz.  I wrote it a few years ago
Jan 03 21:48:46 <dangerskew123> the Sauerbraten engine would be a good one to "port"
Jan 03 21:48:51 <bpadalino> there is a testmixer.c app in the SDL download that uses audio ..
Jan 03 21:48:57 <bpadalino> you can try futzing with that to get it to work the way you want it
Jan 03 21:49:25 <pete27> yeah, I'm going to run out and get food but I'll be back later.  I may need to ask for some tips, thanks!
Jan 03 21:49:33 <bpadalino> np
Jan 03 21:55:46 <KEYofR> that would be sweet. actually I miss good old dos cthugha.
Jan 03 21:58:00 <dangerskew123> yeah, any kind of music visualizer would be sweet. I love showing off my zune with it's 3d visualizer
Jan 03 21:58:25 <zsoc> did someone say tower defense? :D
Jan 03 21:59:13 <KEYofR> gpu assisted seti@pre
Jan 03 21:59:40 <dangerskew123> oooh yeah. the pre could really use a good td game
Jan 03 22:00:03 <bpadalino> seti@pre sounds like a battery killer :(
Jan 03 22:00:12 <KEYofR> it's cold where I am rght now, I need a hand-warmer and I don't mind if work can't call me ;)
Jan 03 22:00:13 <dangerskew123> lol do people still do seti? I thought everyone moved on to folding@home
Jan 03 22:02:45 <dangerskew123> So is anyone trying to get the gameboy and NES emus to launch like doom and quake?
Jan 03 22:03:21 <KEYofR> I was wondering about the plausibility of a iphone emu
Jan 03 22:04:07 <PuffTheMagic> KEYofR: you should be banned for suggesting such a thing
Jan 03 22:04:07 <PuffTheMagic> in this channel
Jan 03 22:04:14 <KEYofR> what a killer that would be, run iphone apps. so sowwy apple
Jan 03 22:04:18 <zsoc> dangerskew: fceu isn't compatible for some reason. I was working on it.
Jan 03 22:05:15 <dangerskew123> strange
Jan 03 22:05:18 <KEYofR> puff you don't want to deflate apples ego? undermine their juggernaut?
Jan 03 22:05:25 <JMyaDaGod> that  wold be funny iphone app emu
Jan 03 22:05:52 <dangerskew123> seriously, an iphone emulator?
Jan 03 22:06:03 <KEYofR> I dont mean make the pre look and act like an iphone, thats a step backwards in some ways, I mean steal their customers!
Jan 03 22:06:11 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: fceux complains about lack of hwsurface support, but every other sdl app I run with hwsurface works fine
Jan 03 22:06:33 <JMyaDaGod> zsoc what other sdl u working on ATM?
Jan 03 22:07:19 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: ported over a bunch of little games. letting the owners decide when/how to relase them. I'm not doing anything fancy these days
Jan 03 22:07:35 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: that's dtzWill and bpadalino territory :)
Jan 03 22:07:40 <dangerskew123> I do wonder if porting iphone apps would be a simple possibility further down the road of native apps, as the hardware is so simmilar
Jan 03 22:07:50 <cashen> zsoc: awesome
Jan 03 22:08:00 <zsoc> dangerskew: software is too different
Jan 03 22:08:13 <JMyaDaGod> any game is cool so it doesnt matter can u pm me a list or is it hush hush?
Jan 03 22:08:14 <zsoc> cashen: we have a catch phrase yet?
Jan 03 22:08:46 <zsoc> JMyaDaGod: lol honestly a lot of it is stuff you could do in js lol
Jan 03 22:08:55 <bpadalino> dangerskew123: the GLES portion should be simple .. the other stuff - buttons, etc .. that isn't as easy since there aren't those helpers
Jan 03 22:09:40 <bpadalino> maybe that's what palm is working on .. the standard webos look/feel for the native apps ..
Jan 03 22:10:42 <cashen> "Tux say's don't eat bad apples"
Jan 03 22:10:44 <KEYofR> wish I could have webos on smasung moment
Jan 03 22:11:00 <cashen> "Avoid the gates of hell. Use Linux"
Jan 03 22:12:19 <zsoc> "webos, a bad word in spanish" lol
Jan 03 22:12:33 <cashen> what is it in spanis?
Jan 03 22:12:37 <JMyaDaGod> KeyofR you got a moment?
Jan 03 22:13:29 <JMyaDaGod> o almost like welbos =balls
Jan 03 22:13:53 <KEYofR> no. I was getting fed up with all the half-bakery and ridiculous _downgrades_ in functionality from my previous palmos centro & treo's , so I went looking around. I like the moments hardware
Jan 03 22:14:12 <cashen> "on the 8th day, god create WebOS"
Jan 03 22:14:17 <KEYofR> but I was surprised to read all the reviews saying how the moment is actually _worse_
Jan 03 22:14:18 <JMyaDaGod> i want to get one as a secong phone
Jan 03 22:14:43 <KEYofR> that, all in all, webos is actually the best working system even compared to the various androids.
Jan 03 22:14:53 <dangerskew123> yeah I was surprised about the moment too. the hardware made it look like a winner but all the reviewers hate it
Jan 03 22:15:01 <KEYofR> I thought android had tons more money behind it
Jan 03 22:15:28 <cashen> i hate the moment, so bulky. I dislike the version of android and the keyboard is worse than the Pre's
Jan 03 22:15:50 <dangerskew123> yep, I got my pre right before the hero came out on sprint and I was having tons of second thoughts until I actually used the hero at the sprint store
Jan 03 22:15:52 <JMyaDaGod> i think i might grab hero try for 30 days and grab moment try for 30 days see whats better
Jan 03 22:16:25 <JMyaDaGod> i love pre though nothing compares IMO
Jan 03 22:16:33 <dangerskew123> if you already have a webos phone and like it, you probably will hate android
Jan 03 22:16:33 <KEYofR> but I do not not not like the pres hardware
Jan 03 22:17:35 <JMyaDaGod> sprint fucked up and gave my my upgrade back so i am gonna grab something
Jan 03 22:18:08 <KEYofR> Im guessing the hackability of webos will have it outpacing everyone else after a while, even though android has all the support and publicity
Jan 03 22:18:35 <JMyaDaGod> BB not an option so looking for best andriod on sprint
Jan 03 22:18:57 <Jack87_> KEYofR: you should wait and see what ces revieals
Jan 03 22:19:00 <dangerskew123> it seems like it. android phones are surprisingly locked down for being an open source OS
Jan 03 22:19:15 <Jack87_> i mean JMyaDaGod you should wait lol.. not KEYofR  :)
Jan 03 22:19:20 <JMyaDaGod> good point
Jan 03 22:19:41 <Jack87_> i like the prehardware other then the 8gig limit
Jan 03 22:19:41 <bpadalino> i actually like how palm lets us putz around with webos without much of a care ...
Jan 03 22:19:46 <cashen> I Think we should put Tux on his shirt, and have him holding a Pre and in text say "the Dude uses WebOS" , http://whatthecrap.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dude.jpg
Jan 03 22:19:54 <bpadalino> when i saw novaterm and root@castle# ..
Jan 03 22:20:15 <dangerskew123> who knows, mabye sprint will get the rumored pre plus as well as verizon
Jan 03 22:20:17 <en0x> nice shirts
Jan 03 22:20:20 <en0x> are always welcome...
Jan 03 22:20:24 <en0x> i would get it
Jan 03 22:20:27 <bpadalino> just seems like a nicer, more tinkerer-friendly phone ..
Jan 03 22:20:35 <en0x> webOS - MMS since day one ;)
Jan 03 22:20:39 <Jack87_> lol cashen thats funny
Jan 03 22:21:16 <cashen> Or, make Tux dressed like the dude
Jan 03 22:21:55 <KEYofR> just wish somoeone would write some damned apps. I want my audible player and pockettunes back! and really the zillion other 20 year history of palm apps for everything under the sun.
Jan 03 22:22:25 <rwhitby-pre> morning
Jan 03 22:22:33 <cashen> Evening
Jan 03 22:22:37 <zsoc> KEYofR: that's a pretty ignorant statement
Jan 03 22:22:38 <JMyaDaGod> good evening
Jan 03 22:22:57 <KEYofR> even the remix is still basically garbage fro audiobooks. books just need a few extra things that you don't need for tunes
Jan 03 22:23:02 <JMyaDaGod> i liked palm os but i dont require anything from it
Jan 03 22:23:05 <dangerskew123> I think once the SDK goes native we'll see a big explosion of apps and in general more devs who give a damn about webos
Jan 03 22:23:13 <rwhitby-pre> anything interesting overnight?
Jan 03 22:23:30 <JMyaDaGod> i made soup
Jan 03 22:23:35 <JMyaDaGod> lol
Jan 03 22:24:13 <KEYofR> zsoc: no its not ignorant at all, its quite informed. you perheps assume too much  or project a little though.
Jan 03 22:24:42 <en0x> i want NANPlayer!
Jan 03 22:25:19 <KEYofR> for instance, I did not say that I thought complex robust well tested debugged and feature rich apps should fall from the magic sky in a day. I just said it sucks that we are startoing over.
Jan 03 22:25:27 * rwhitby-pre is back at work today, so responses will be delayed
Jan 03 22:26:31 * cashen goes back to work tmorrow. :()
Jan 03 22:26:42 <KEYofR> I had apps for everything on my palms. it kills me to look at my centro and look at all the things it did that I can't do in the pre, and probably wont for a while.
Jan 03 22:26:50 <idw2k> Well, you're free to keep using your PalmOS phone and not "start over".
Jan 03 22:27:10 <ird> Is Precorder only in the testing feeds still?
Jan 03 22:27:15 <KEYofR> hardware crapped out.
Jan 03 22:27:18 <JMyaDaGod> ill sell u a centro for $50 lol
Jan 03 22:27:40 <zsoc> KEYofR: that's different. you said 'i wish someone would write some damn apps', as in everyone is sitting on their butt doing nothing.
Jan 03 22:27:40 <KEYofR> and bluetooth does work better on the pre, finally, than even the last version centro
Jan 03 22:28:35 <Dan__> rwhitby-pre, any news on when the upstart free version of quake and doom will be released?
Jan 03 22:28:35 <en0x> JMyaDaGod, is is cdma or gsm?
Jan 03 22:28:37 <zsoc> ird: precorder is on hold until the audio encoding works
Jan 03 22:29:06 <KEYofR> no, you said that I don't I said I wish someone would write some apps. or really more & more useful. I don;t need any more twiddly games and magic 8 balls and fart noise makers.
Jan 03 22:29:08 <cashen> How about this picture with a text bubble, "I said WebOS! Eff it dude, lets go hack our Pres"  http://tikimexican.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/big_lebowski_walter_gun.jpg
Jan 03 22:29:12 <ird> zsoc: what's broken?
Jan 03 22:29:18 <KEYofR> handbase or jfile would be useful
Jan 03 22:29:31 <Jack87_> i cant remember the stuff i "miss" from my palm os
Jan 03 22:29:34 <rwhitby-pre> Dan: no drive to do so as far as I know
Jan 03 22:29:59 <Dan__> rwhitby-pre, any reason why?
Jan 03 22:30:04 <hape> I contracted handbase. They could be willing if native apps are offical supported
Jan 03 22:30:11 <hape> bunt not before
Jan 03 22:30:13 <JMyaDaGod> enox:its a brand spankin "new" refurb red cdma sprint centro
Jan 03 22:30:25 <cashen> .me has to go make dinner
Jan 03 22:30:35 * cashen has to make dinner
Jan 03 22:30:37 <JMyaDaGod> ./me
Jan 03 22:30:38 <JMyaDaGod> lol
Jan 03 22:30:44 <dangerskew123> I can't believe sprint is still selling the centro
Jan 03 22:30:46 <rwhitby-pre> Dan: what's the reason to change?
Jan 03 22:30:59 <JMyaDaGod> i think they stopped selling most of them only certain colors
Jan 03 22:31:20 <idontwan2know> Pretty sure AT&T still sells the Centro, too.
Jan 03 22:31:29 <JMyaDaGod> i liked the centro
Jan 03 22:31:35 <idontwan2know> at least they did a few weeks ago
Jan 03 22:31:47 <dangerskew123> my brother got a black one right before the pixi came out
Jan 03 22:31:49 <rwhitby-pre> upstart launches faster, and allows for a webOS one-time splash screen with key bindings etc.
Jan 03 22:32:09 <destinal-returne> ah, fun stuff
Jan 03 22:32:09 <JMyaDaGod> thats what my girl uses now she was waiting on pink pixi anyword if it is still BS?
Jan 03 22:32:13 <KEYofR> vnc client, better irc client (I had to use bitchx yesterday because the vaunted wirc couldn;t log in to undernet because it didnt allow me to respond to the servers pre-full-connect prompts (/quote pass 12345)
Jan 03 22:32:22 <KEYofR> choice of email clients
Jan 03 22:32:26 <Dan__> rwhitby-pre, good to know
Jan 03 22:32:47 <Abyssul> Take cover ROD!@
Jan 03 22:32:51 <Abyssul> Kense is coming!
Jan 03 22:32:53 <Dan__> rwhitby-pre, thanks
Jan 03 22:32:59 <Jack87_> rwhitby-pre: why a onetime splash screen? what if needed to reffer back>?
Jan 03 22:33:23 <destinal> KEYofR: well, that's a simple enhancement to wirc to fix
Jan 03 22:33:44 <destinal> idontwan2know: My brother just got a hand me down centro
Jan 03 22:33:48 <KEYofR> media players that can actually play my ogg and flacs (which happens to be 99% of my tunes) pocketunes was ideal, the bookmarking and playlisting all well adjusted after lots of feedback overthe years
Jan 03 22:33:49 <destinal> I'll have to help him hack it
Jan 03 22:34:04 <destinal> rather, load apps, since I think that's all you need :)
Jan 03 22:34:25 <KEYofR> and as mentions, an audio player that has the extra features to make books convenient
Jan 03 22:34:44 <JMyaDaGod> it seems ideal for u to stay with PalmOS
Jan 03 22:34:49 <rwhitby-pre> Jack87: whichever
Jan 03 22:35:25 <destinal> KEYofR: I've listened to lots of audiobooks on remix, bookmarks and the seek bar make it posible, now a skip 20 seconds button might be a nice add, but what other features do you need?
Jan 03 22:35:27 <dangerskew123> flac is kinda terrible for a portable device that only has 8gb if storage
Jan 03 22:36:19 <KEYofR> hey I'm not denying the advantages. I like a bigger screen, flash, unix. it's just a feature deficit right now.
Jan 03 22:36:28 <Jack87_> rwhitby-pre: whichever what?
Jan 03 22:36:39 <en0x> KEYofR, go get nokia n900
Jan 03 22:37:15 <kesne> rwhitby-pre: Hey
Jan 03 22:37:19 <Jack87_> KEYofR: honestly if you dont like the pre return it?
Jan 03 22:37:20 <kesne> Jack87: I know
Jan 03 22:37:39 <Jack87_> kesne: :)
Jan 03 22:37:46 <kesne> I am here
Jan 03 22:37:56 <kesne> but rod decided not to answer my messages
Jan 03 22:38:07 <KEYofR> dest: it's very very difficult to manually go back to your place using the slider. to inaccurate. relying on the resume only works about half the time because it's very easy to accidentaly swipe right off the current file onto the next or previous, thus losing the saved position
Jan 03 22:38:18 <JMyaDaGod> whats a wimax phone windows mobile????
Jan 03 22:38:40 <dangerskew123> or just buy a dedicated PMP to satisfy your media needs. audiobooks and flac would kill the battery on the pre
Jan 03 22:38:45 <Jack87_> wimax = 4g
Jan 03 22:39:17 <KEYofR> with an 8 hour single file, I end up listening to the same 15/20 minutes 3 or 4 times sometimes, because I mostly only listen in the car, and thats about how long several car trips are
Jan 03 22:39:22 <JMyaDaGod> ooic sprint and microsft may announce wimax phone ces hmmm maybe ill try windows mobile out with my free upgrade
Jan 03 22:39:52 <dangerskew123> do NOT go windows mobile. it's a complete nightmare, imo
Jan 03 22:40:02 <KEYofR> so yeah the step ahead by fixed incriments, a few different size incriments would be real real helpful
Jan 03 22:40:13 <Jack87_> JMyaDaGod: sprint is the only one doing 4g right now (but not for phones i dont think)
Jan 03 22:40:47 <JMyaDaGod> http://news.softpedia.com/news/WM-Based-WiMAX-Phone-Expected-at-CES-2010-130521.shtml
Jan 03 22:40:48 <zsoc> Eguy: you here? this guy is out-trolling you
Jan 03 22:40:50 <KEYofR> and really the save-position in tags that the audible player does really.
Jan 03 22:41:14 <destinal> KEYofR: actually, keyboard would be great for different size skips too
Jan 03 22:41:15 <KEYofR> as in, it store your position in that file, IN the file in the equivalent of id3 tags.
Jan 03 22:41:20 <Eguy> zsoc: nobody can do that
Jan 03 22:41:23 <destinal> as well as maybe a selector bar and button
Jan 03 22:42:13 <kesne> Jack87: I wish Rod would actually pretend like i exist
Jan 03 22:42:20 <Jack87> Eguy: i think zsoc is right look back like 5-10min
Jan 03 22:42:36 <Jack87> kesne: its because you are 15 ;-)
Jan 03 22:42:37 <zsoc> kesne: he's working.
Jan 03 22:42:44 <kesne> Oh
Jan 03 22:42:48 <PreGame> lol
Jan 03 22:42:48 <kesne> Thanks zsoc
Jan 03 22:42:50 <kesne> No I feel bad
Jan 03 22:42:52 <destinal> I'm going to build a distcc cluster, starting with my main PC and a linux laptop and the pre.  I think I have an extra workstation I can add as well
Jan 03 22:42:56 <kesne> Jack87: how old are you?
Jan 03 22:42:59 <Jack87> kesne: I bet he is rading back log on his pre right now trying to catch up
Jan 03 22:43:08 <zsoc> kesne: his birthdate is in his name :p
Jan 03 22:43:17 <zsoc> kesne: what was your question? I can help
Jan 03 22:43:23 <Jack87> kesne: i dont exist to him either... zsoc bingo hehehe :)
Jan 03 22:43:31 <PreGame> zsoc: actually thats his birth year not day :P
Jan 03 22:43:43 <Jack87> zsoc: is gaming porting webos hacker remember
Jan 03 22:43:45 <zsoc> PreGame: thank you :p
Jan 03 22:43:52 <kesne> I was going to ask him for the non-upstart version of Quake
Jan 03 22:44:08 <PreGame> kesne: just remove the upstart script
Jan 03 22:44:09 <zsoc> kesne: why? upstart is faster
Jan 03 22:44:40 <zsoc> destinal: doing some candian crosscompiling?
Jan 03 22:45:03 <kesne> zsoc: to submit to palm xD
Jan 03 22:45:17 <kesne> PreGame: wish it was as simple as that
Jan 03 22:45:20 <kesne> I know it's simple
Jan 03 22:45:25 <kesne> Like three lines of codee
Jan 03 22:45:29 <kesne> but not super simple
Jan 03 22:45:34 <zsoc> kesne: just because it doesn't use upstart, clearly they are undocumented apis
Jan 03 22:45:51 <kesne> zsoc: so? You think the people that review the apps know that?
Jan 03 22:45:53 <zsoc> kesne: palm will not accept anything using nappmgr
Jan 03 22:46:04 <zsoc> kesne: yes, I know they know that.
Jan 03 22:46:13 <zsoc> kesne: palm isn't run by teenagers.
Jan 03 22:46:13 <Eguy> zsoc: who was doing it?
Jan 03 22:46:16 <kesne> zsoc: well then, just to see what the hell they say
Jan 03 22:46:31 <zsoc> Eguy: keyofr :)
Jan 03 22:46:37 <Jack87> zsoc: you had to give him an age blow didnt you haha
Jan 03 22:46:40 <Eguy> that's what I though
Jan 03 22:46:42 <Eguy> t
Jan 03 22:47:03 <zsoc> Jack87: had nothing to do with him?
Jan 03 22:47:17 <kesne> How come everyone bashes me for age?
Jan 03 22:47:17 <d0lph1nk1ng> wIrc on pre rocks!
Jan 03 22:47:26 <Jack87> zsoc: haha he is a teenager. it looked that way
Jan 03 22:47:33 <Jack87> more like a joke though
Jan 03 22:47:39 <KEYofR> doing what? trolling? admitting problems is trolling? your'e what? just in love with webos as it is right now?
Jan 03 22:47:56 <Daaknes> yeah_wIrc is pretty cool
Jan 03 22:48:19 <idontwan2know> "admitting" implies that you're reluctant about it
Jan 03 22:48:29 <KEYofR> besides the complaints were a tangent. What I was really talking about originally was why I was looking at the Moment.
Jan 03 22:48:31 <idontwan2know> what you were doing was "complaining"
Jan 03 22:48:49 <dangerskew123> yeah I'm using wirc too. listening to a live podcast and chatting in irc at the same time all on my phone is awesome
Jan 03 22:48:56 <idontwan2know> Pretty sure PalmOS has a dictionary app that will help you with that.
Jan 03 22:48:57 <KEYofR> these are the perfectly real and undeniable reasons why
Jan 03 22:48:59 * kesne brb
Jan 03 22:49:08 <kesne> Ask jack87 for my email ;)
Jan 03 22:49:19 <kesne> When you guys finally decide that I am right
Jan 03 22:49:24 <zsoc> lol
Jan 03 22:49:27 <kesne> And email me the upstart-free files
Jan 03 22:49:29 <kesne> :P
Jan 03 22:49:36 * kesne is eating
Jan 03 22:49:44 <zsoc> kesne: we'd submit preware first :P
Jan 03 22:49:51 <KEYofR> I didnt actually come in to gripe about webos, I merely did not attempt to gloss over the problems
Jan 03 22:49:59 <hape> KEYofR: By the way if you miss a PalmOS app, wy not use clssic. That is what I do
Jan 03 22:50:01 <AnOutsider> @KEYofR this probably isn't the best place to air out gripes re: palm and/or webos (no matter how innocent your intentions may be)
Jan 03 22:50:03 <Jack87> brb
Jan 03 22:50:22 <AnOutsider> learned that already ;)
Jan 03 22:50:30 <idontwan2know> Nobody is glossing over anything.
Jan 03 22:51:02 <KEYofR> god classic, theres a piece of crap. I have it. paid for it, keep it updated to latest. it crashes. goodnight classic.
Jan 03 22:51:05 <dangerskew123> yeah, we probably shouldn't have even been talking about android/the moment in the first place. it's not androidinternals lol
Jan 03 22:51:47 <Eguy> DId you really think a brand new OS would be fantastic the first year?
Jan 03 22:51:52 <Eguy> That never happs
Jan 03 22:52:00 <KEYofR> It's probably a lot of work, but its apparently only 3/4 of the work that is needed before it works well and is actually useful for the job of "run anything you used to be able to"
Jan 03 22:52:09 <Eguy> happens*
Jan 03 22:52:16 <KEYofR> of course not
Jan 03 22:52:48 <zsoc> I like webos in it's current state. I really only miss advanced bluetooth functions.
Jan 03 22:53:00 <KEYofR> everyone conveniently forgets what I SAID was I wished I couyld have webos on the Monets hardware.
Jan 03 22:53:02 <zsoc> and GPU css transitions would fix luna lag
Jan 03 22:53:09 <dangerskew123> well windows 7 has been fantastic and it's only been out a few months. I guess you couldn't really call it a "brand new" os, though.
Jan 03 22:53:09 <idontwan2know> So then you assumed that the people in this channel were unaware of the shortcomings you mentioned and needed you to make them aware so they could get to work on them?
Jan 03 22:53:11 <KEYofR> Its just mre fun to call someone a troll
Jan 03 22:53:22 <KEYofR> Moments
Jan 03 22:53:24 <zsoc> I'm just confused why you're in here spouting your opinions. I'm not terribly interested personally.
Jan 03 22:53:32 <JMyaDaGod> LOL
Jan 03 22:53:40 <KEYofR> every one was a resons to a question
Jan 03 22:54:05 <KEYofR> I did not actually say this stuff out of the blue you guys are so funny
Jan 03 22:54:11 <Eguy> LOL
Jan 03 22:54:26 <KEYofR> except the initial "wish I could get webos n a moment"
Jan 03 22:54:44 <zsoc> I was only upset by the "I wish someone would actually make a useful app".
Jan 03 22:54:51 <zsoc> Eguy: so, you using a centro right now?
Jan 03 22:55:00 <KEYofR> ah that, yes that was volunteered
Jan 03 22:55:14 <KEYofR> and perfectly valid. we have shit for apps
Jan 03 22:55:47 <AnOutsider> I'd disagree there
Jan 03 22:55:55 <zsoc> Except all the apps I use on a regular basis that I love.
Jan 03 22:56:01 <AnOutsider> compared to say the iphone, sure we have a lot less apps, but many of them are actually USEFUL
Jan 03 22:56:34 <zsoc> Personally I like webos because i'm a total geek and can do ridiculous things with this phone. But no one cares what I think so I wasn't saying it.
Jan 03 22:56:37 <Eguy> zsoc: I went back to my Pre with 1.3.5 since I can actually use my Pre without almost running over it with me car ;)
Jan 03 22:56:41 <AnOutsider> there's only 2 apps I miss fro the iphone, one is a wifi remote for my kaleidescape and the other is geo defense (game)
Jan 03 22:56:42 <KEYofR> compared to palmos! heck with iphone.
Jan 03 22:56:53 <zsoc> Eguy: I'm glad :)
Jan 03 22:57:07 <zsoc> AnOutsider: You have a wifi-controlled kaleidescope?
Jan 03 22:57:07 <Eguy> Watching precorder closely ;)
Jan 03 22:57:09 <idontwan2know> zsoc: I care what you think!
Jan 03 22:57:10 <dangerskew123> agreed, I've got all the apps I need on pre other than awesome games
Jan 03 22:57:15 <idontwan2know> Daily affirmation FTW.
Jan 03 22:57:32 <KEYofR> people have been writing counteless oddball special purpose apps for palm for ages. it'll take for ever to get all that back on a new platform.
Jan 03 22:57:48 <edektor> is there somewhere I can find the source to the OpenGL demo?
Jan 03 22:58:04 <zsoc> Eguy: Precorder isn't viable right now. The C service is written, and it's super sexy thanks to Puff. Like works 100% of the time. But the audio is just unusable. We need a DSP driven aac audio encoder that isn't broken.
Jan 03 22:58:05 <AnOutsider> @zsoc: kaleidescape, it's a media server
Jan 03 22:58:12 <zsoc> AnOutsider: OH, makes more sense ;)
Jan 03 22:58:26 <KEYofR> well except, the development tools are more powerfull now so it's probably easier to make a random new app than it was for palm
Jan 03 22:58:29 <d0lph1nk1ng> ya if we know open gl can we write webos apps now?
Jan 03 22:58:38 <zsoc> d0lph1nk1ng: yes
Jan 03 22:58:40 <Eguy> Someone needs to change the channel topic: bitching and moaning to #webos-watercooler
Jan 03 22:58:52 <KEYofR> so it probably wont take 20 years to get back on par with the last 20 years of palm stuff
Jan 03 22:58:57 <zsoc> d0lph1nk1ng: the only thing you need to learn is the SDL hooks, which are like, 5 pages worth of reading. super simple.
Jan 03 22:59:05 <KEYofR> or, 15? more than 10
Jan 03 22:59:06 <AnOutsider> haha
Jan 03 22:59:06 <destinal> d0lph1nk1ng: well you can write linux apps that run under webos, they may not use all of its functions (like doom and quake don't) -- more standalone single card type deals
Jan 03 22:59:52 <d0lph1nk1ng> zsoc, destinal : thanks and great work
Jan 03 22:59:55 <KEYofR> (years of palm apps, I was referring to, not pages of sdl docs, sorry)
Jan 03 23:00:03 <dangerskew123> god, everywhere I go if there's webos/pre/palm, there's bitching. I feel like I'm reading app catalog reviews here
Jan 03 23:00:10 <Eguy> My god, it is beautiful out today
Jan 03 23:00:30 <lt83850> eguy, east coast here....horrible weather
Jan 03 23:00:30 <Eguy> You guys should go outside once in a while :P
Jan 03 23:00:31 <lt83850> :S
Jan 03 23:00:39 <idontwan2know> Eguy: Lies. We don't have all the apps PalmOS had. Life is terrible.
Jan 03 23:00:44 <Eguy> Unless you live where it is snowing
Jan 03 23:00:50 <Eguy> LOL
Jan 03 23:00:53 <dangerskew123> yeah, it's really cold right now
Jan 03 23:01:03 <zsoc> Eguy: it is 2 degrees right now. frost bite < 10 minutes
Jan 03 23:01:08 <Eguy> Must.Have.Agendus
Jan 03 23:01:17 <Eguy> 75 degrees and sunny :P
Jan 03 23:01:23 <Eguy> Oops...shouldn't have said that
Jan 03 23:01:30 <KEYofR> its midle of the night here and freezing, and I am gettong out quite a lot these days thanks. as if that has anything to do with anything...
Jan 03 23:02:02 <lt83850> would be sweet to have a youtube downloader converter for audio (patch) and media center remote, and IM via msn or live
Jan 03 23:02:10 <lt83850> moving from winmo, all i really miss
Jan 03 23:02:19 <Eguy> you ask too much lt83850
Jan 03 23:02:31 <lt83850> and can live without
Jan 03 23:02:41 <lt83850> its not asking, just stating what i miss...and can live without
Jan 03 23:02:58 <zsoc> lt83850: you mean ripping audio from a youtube video?
Jan 03 23:03:04 <idontwan2know> Personally, I need more fart apps.
Jan 03 23:03:06 <lt83850> yeah zsoc
Jan 03 23:03:24 <lt83850> would be sweet under multitaskig
Jan 03 23:03:28 <zsoc> lt83850: very possible right now, just not as an official app
Jan 03 23:03:42 <KEYofR> a carpeneters level on a device without one straight surface on it. brilliant ;)
Jan 03 23:04:02 <zsoc> lt83850: use the regular script for youtube download, then run it through a gstreamer pipeline with playbin, demux, push the video to a fakesink and the audio to .aac file
Jan 03 23:04:12 <zsoc> dtzWill: you
Jan 03 23:04:26 <Jack87> zsoc: thats the one and only
Jan 03 23:04:27 <Eguy> Can never have enough fart apps
Jan 03 23:04:29 <zsoc> dtzWill: the touchscreen mapping, is that quake specific? Or can we use that for any sdl app?
Jan 03 23:04:58 <cal_> HM.. reinstalled the theme i like after update to 1.3.5 .. 'my light blue theme'.. background is there but icons didn't change :(
Jan 03 23:05:18 <KEYofR> not knocking things like that ofr what they are, trivial, inconsequential, starting points. people must dabble at that level first. thats fine. so, I'm not attacking every developer that made an app like that. what I'm saying is , duh, these are not useful.
Jan 03 23:05:59 <lt83850> thx zsoc
Jan 03 23:06:10 <edektor> is there somewhere I can find the source to the OpenGL demo that  bpadalino did?
Jan 03 23:06:20 <bpadalino> yeah sure ..
Jan 03 23:06:29 <destinal> edektor: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom
Jan 03 23:06:37 <edektor> ahh.. thank you
Jan 03 23:06:51 <dtzWill> zsoc: i wrote the code into the way the events are handled but as far as i know it's generic
Jan 03 23:06:52 <pete27> bpadalino: So, can you help me get a compiling environment u pfor use with the new SDL/openGL libs?
Jan 03 23:06:54 <rwhitby> edektor: look in the channel log from yesterday
Jan 03 23:07:02 <rwhitby> or there :-)
Jan 03 23:07:08 <zsoc> dtzWill: that will be very very very very useful. it's really sexy. really.
Jan 03 23:07:08 <dtzWill> zsoc: i can help if you wanna do that with doom, etc
Jan 03 23:07:14 <dtzWill> zsoc: ty :D
Jan 03 23:07:21 <bpadalino> haha, destinal has a good link
Jan 03 23:07:26 <rwhitby> kesne: as with all webos-internals products, all code is in public repositories.
Jan 03 23:07:29 <zsoc> dtzWill: doom has its own issues, doesn't like mouse controls. I think i'm going to let someone else fix it lol
Jan 03 23:07:37 <bpadalino> i should note it was a modified test from the maemo guys ..
Jan 03 23:07:43 <bpadalino> i just modified it and took out the X11 stuff
Jan 03 23:07:46 <bpadalino> and put in SDL stuff
Jan 03 23:07:48 <dtzWill> kesne: you wanted something right? and yeah the source is publicly available, i pushed it all
Jan 03 23:07:51 <edektor> so in the appinfo.json just set type as game and set main to the executable?
Jan 03 23:07:57 <kesne> rwhitby: I know, I just couldnt get it to launch, I don't know how to do the "game" stuff
Jan 03 23:07:58 <dtzWill> kesne: gpl or the id software license or whatever :)
Jan 03 23:08:08 <kesne> dtzWill: aight
Jan 03 23:08:14 <dtzWill> StavrosLazos: ping, yt?
Jan 03 23:08:15 <bpadalino> pete27: um sure .. destinal's setup is more ideal i think .. with the debian chroot ..
Jan 03 23:08:19 <bpadalino> or you can do cross compiling ..
Jan 03 23:08:26 <bpadalino> and grab the libs from the pre or a webos doctor image
Jan 03 23:08:26 <rwhitby> Jack87: "whichever" meant if you have a webOS wrapper, then you can choose to put whatever splash screen you like.  without upstart, you're forced directly into the binary (which you may not know how to add menus and stuff to yet)
Jan 03 23:08:56 <dtzWill> rwhitby: making things like emulator wrappers much easier :)
Jan 03 23:09:09 <kesne> rwhitby: how would I make Quake Upstart free?
Jan 03 23:09:26 <pete27> bpadalino: are you saying destinal's solution is to compile on the device?
Jan 03 23:09:29 <destinal> bpadalino: noted the origin on the wiki, if you want to put a link up there at some point that's cool
Jan 03 23:09:30 <rwhitby> KEYofR: I think comments about webOS capabilities in general are best voiced in #webos, where there are Palm staff and webOS developers who can actually do something about what you're talking about.   This channel is for technical discussion about the internals under webOS.
Jan 03 23:09:31 <cal_> does doom run under luna or its own manager?
Jan 03 23:10:01 <bpadalino> pete27: it's the easiest one right now .. but you can setup the cross compilation toolchain using OE .. there are instructions somewhere
Jan 03 23:10:02 <Jack87> rwhitby: i see :)
Jan 03 23:10:20 <rwhitby> In this channel, participants are expected to work out how to solve the problems with webOS, not just discuss what problems there are.
Jan 03 23:10:45 <bpadalino> heh, i like how you got my nick wrong destinal .. :) i'd actually prefer if no one mentioned me specifically if i do anything .. just anonymous is fine .. it's in the logs
Jan 03 23:11:12 <KEYofR> yeah yeah I know. I actually have a patch up in preware. a microscopic one but whatever. the unhardcode TERM one
Jan 03 23:11:13 <rwhitby> kesne: reproducible instructions for the game type are in the public log of this channel
Jan 03 23:11:15 <pete27> bpadalino: I like compiling on-device.  I don't see any links on the wik ithough, unless I'n looking in the wrong spot
Jan 03 23:11:25 <destinal> bpadalino: hehe, I typed it too fast
Jan 03 23:11:35 <kesne> rwhitby: Okay, fine, I'll do it myself :P
Jan 03 23:11:40 <zsoc> rwhitby: we need zenity now
Jan 03 23:11:41 <bpadalino> pete27: setup a debian chroot .. and that should do it ..
Jan 03 23:12:02 <bpadalino> pete27: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Debian .. something like that
Jan 03 23:12:27 <pete27> Ok
Jan 03 23:12:38 <zsoc> bpadalino, the secret webos hacker extraordinaire
Jan 03 23:12:54 <bpadalino> zsoc: shhh .. it's our little secret
Jan 03 23:13:09 <rwhitby> kesne: of course, you may want to do it on a different game, so it doesn't look like you're just piggy backing on the work of others to get an easy app in the catalog ... perhaps MAME would be a good choice.
Jan 03 23:13:18 <bpadalino> destinal: example is loosely based on this: http://wiki.maemo.org/SimpleGL_Example
Jan 03 23:13:18 <pete27> bpadalino: cool, I didn't expect that to allow me to run opengl apps in a card
Jan 03 23:13:39 <zsoc> rwhitby: lol you don't really think palm's going to take that into the catalog?
Jan 03 23:13:40 <bpadalino> pete27: it allows you to compile using gcc -lSDL -lGLESv2 i think ..
Jan 03 23:13:46 <bpadalino> and i think that is all you need ?
Jan 03 23:14:02 <pete27> right, but then I can launch that app from luna via the upstart manager and run it in a card?
Jan 03 23:14:13 <bpadalino> pete27: you can run it from the commandline
Jan 03 23:14:15 <rwhitby> zsoc: the gotta get to 2000 somehow ...
Jan 03 23:14:17 <bpadalino> and a new card will pop up
Jan 03 23:14:18 <destinal> bpadalino: my fingers want to transpose "D" and "L" in your last name -- isn't "paladino" in italian the origin of the name applied to Charlamagne's knights and tons and tons of Role Playing Tropes?
Jan 03 23:14:34 <pete27> ah, see that's not nearly as cool.  Why write an app that nobody can use?
Jan 03 23:14:41 <zsoc> rwhitby: that would be pretty bad. i mean it's a hack at best, even USING 'their' methods right now
Jan 03 23:14:48 <kesne> rwhitby: aye
Jan 03 23:14:54 <bpadalino> destinal: no idea the origin of the name .. but everyone makes the mistake .. padalino is much more rare of a name ..
Jan 03 23:15:04 <kesne> rwhitby: I've got some slaves working on it
Jan 03 23:15:08 <bpadalino> pete27: well - upstart can run it too ..
Jan 03 23:15:11 <rwhitby> bpadalino: good for ego searching ...
Jan 03 23:15:14 <zsoc> pete27: the app is for testing purposes :P
Jan 03 23:15:27 <rwhitby> bpadalino: just like 'preware' is ;-)
Jan 03 23:15:33 <bpadalino> heh
Jan 03 23:15:37 <pete27> haha
Jan 03 23:17:03 <rwhitby> kesne: do we know the specifics of the "free for open source" clause for the app catalog?  What precise definition of "open source" are they using?
Jan 03 23:17:09 <zsoc> Would hexen be a step back? Lol. it's just so fun to port these ridiculous things.
Jan 03 23:17:29 <kesne> rwhitby: no idea
Jan 03 23:17:33 <kesne> Ive actually asked
Jan 03 23:17:47 <kesne> But the $50 per app isnt in effect just yet
Jan 03 23:17:49 <kesne> so no worries
Jan 03 23:18:12 <zsoc> Oh kesne, such an opportunity finder.
Jan 03 23:18:28 <PreGame> i shall never submit to the app catalog
Jan 03 23:18:32 <destinal> rwhitby: and can you can sell open source and get in free?
Jan 03 23:18:35 <zsoc> kesne: you're lucky destinal searches through new releases tooth and nail or you wouldn't even be having this conversation ;)
Jan 03 23:18:36 <PreGame> i refuse to pay $99 to be a developer
Jan 03 23:18:58 <rwhitby> destinal: dunno, that's why I want to get the precise details, but I assume they're not defined yet.
Jan 03 23:19:06 <kesne> PreGame: I'm the same
Jan 03 23:19:17 <kesne> Lucky for me they'll wave some of my fees
Jan 03 23:19:28 <kesne> zsoc: care to elaborate?
Jan 03 23:19:31 <destinal> zsoc: rwhitby started the digging which got me curious enoughto join in
Jan 03 23:19:31 <PreGame> kesne: you already paid to submit your apps
Jan 03 23:19:49 <Abyssul> hmmm we need to get a PS3 controller or Wiimote connected to the Pre
Jan 03 23:19:49 <destinal> though i have pored through the closed palm binaries quite a bit
Jan 03 23:19:49 <kesne> PreGame: No I didn't?
Jan 03 23:19:53 <PreGame> yea you did
Jan 03 23:19:58 <PreGame> you paid to join the developer network
Jan 03 23:20:03 <kesne> $5?
Jan 03 23:20:15 <PreGame> did you join in early before they set the $99?
Jan 03 23:20:33 <kesne> They waived fees for people in the early early program
Jan 03 23:20:49 <kesne> That happened to be me
Jan 03 23:21:04 <kesne> And they're also waiving some app's fee's or at least someone else is paying them
Jan 03 23:21:09 <Jack87> waived only for a year? yo have to pay next year dont you?
Jan 03 23:21:12 <PreGame> i don't even look through the app catalog
Jan 03 23:21:14 * Abyssul bows to kesne.
Jan 03 23:21:19 <PreGame> so much spam of crappy incremental apps
Jan 03 23:21:22 <zsoc> kesne: this whole 'native app' thing, we probably wouldn't have even found it yet if destinal wasn't so thorough with looking through the 1.3.5 image
Jan 03 23:21:32 <kesne> Oh, so true
Jan 03 23:21:34 <kesne> but we are lucky
Jan 03 23:21:36 <PreGame> if i see an app i like posted on precentral then i will get it but i don't just "browse"
Jan 03 23:21:42 <bpadalino> destinal is the man
Jan 03 23:21:54 <PreGame> what this native app thing?
Jan 03 23:22:02 <Jack87> i paid for one app what a waste of money it happene dto e..
Jan 03 23:22:12 <Abyssul> I bought Paratrooper
Jan 03 23:22:14 <zsoc> PreGame: the reason doom/quake works
Jan 03 23:22:28 <PreGame> which is?
Jan 03 23:22:35 <zsoc> PreGame: basically any native linux application will now run in a card on the Pre with just some sdl hooks
Jan 03 23:22:38 <Jack87> cubix.. rubix cube app. i know there is a linux version of cubix i wonder if that can be ported over into an opengl enviorment. the one in catalog is not 3d
Jan 03 23:22:41 <egaudet> There's two parts to it
Jan 03 23:22:57 <Bad_Programmer> Kesne?
Jan 03 23:23:00 <Jack87> if somone can port linux cubix and use touch screen for changing that be awesome
Jan 03 23:23:02 <egaudet> first they have integrated SDL so that we can run native SDL apps in a card.
Jan 03 23:23:10 <kesne> Jack87: waived for a year for what I hear, but because they love me (well, more like someone loves me) the fee's fees are paid for
Jan 03 23:23:22 <kesne> Bad_Programmer: Hola
Jan 03 23:23:32 <Bad_Programmer> Hallo
Jan 03 23:23:37 <Bad_Programmer> kesne:
Jan 03 23:23:45 <kesne> yes?
Jan 03 23:23:52 <Bad_Programmer> So I'm trying to understand
Jan 03 23:23:54 <Bad_Programmer> This C++ thing
Jan 03 23:24:13 <egaudet> Secondly they have added the ability to launch a binary via appinfo.json
Jan 03 23:24:16 <bpadalino> it's a very old programming language ..
Jan 03 23:24:18 <Bad_Programmer> What I think is they exploit the underlying Linux code
Jan 03 23:24:28 <Bad_Programmer> So they can use C++
Jan 03 23:24:30 <grndslm> i was wondering how you could hook a controller up to the pre... but it's got bluetooth
Jan 03 23:24:44 <grndslm> that should make for a few options right there
Jan 03 23:24:45 <zsoc> egaudet: and that 'first' thing is actually 3 things ;) Palm has been working on this since the beginning, if I had to guess.
Jan 03 23:24:52 <bpadalino> grndslm: it also has mini usb on the side
Jan 03 23:24:59 <kesne> Bad_Programmer: Don't ask me, I just found out about this today. Good person to ask is Destinal and rwhitby
Jan 03 23:25:01 <egaudet> yea well definitely for a while
Jan 03 23:25:02 <grndslm> yea, but i'd rather not touch that usb flap
Jan 03 23:25:03 * kesne is leaving
Jan 03 23:25:06 <kesne> bye buye now
Jan 03 23:25:07 <egaudet> NFS has surely been using
Jan 03 23:25:15 <Abyssul> bpadalino: You mean micro USB right?
Jan 03 23:25:17 <dangerskew123> that's not a usb host port though
Jan 03 23:25:28 <zsoc> Bad_Programmer: what C++ thing?
Jan 03 23:25:36 <Bad_Programmer> Oh
Jan 03 23:25:39 <bpadalino> ah, yes, micro
Jan 03 23:25:44 <Jack87> oh sad world iphone has it but not pre... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2L3h1S51iQ
Jan 03 23:25:50 <Bad_Programmer> Some people have been able to use C++ on the pre
Jan 03 23:25:59 <destinal> grndslm: the flap is really resiliant
Jan 03 23:26:10 <zsoc> Bad_Programmer: c++ libs are there. why couldn't you?
Jan 03 23:26:16 <grndslm> yea, but a bluetooth controller would still be awesome
Jan 03 23:26:51 <destinal> grndslm: I'm working on porting btstack to fix that.   it compiles and runs but, well, doesn't talk to the bluetooth controller yet
Jan 03 23:27:00 <zsoc> palm actually uses c++ wrappers in some of their headers
Jan 03 23:27:15 <grndslm> nice... sounds like you're the homebrew hero of the decade, destinal!
Jan 03 23:27:16 <Bad_Programmer> Cool
Jan 03 23:27:18 <bpadalino> that cubix game looks like it could be done pretty easily using straight javascript .. right ?
Jan 03 23:27:35 <bpadalino> it's an early decade!! give it time
Jan 03 23:27:35 <Abyssul> destinal: Awesome
Jan 03 23:27:52 <destinal> grndslm: I like to play with lots of pieces but I'm not really an expert with any of them
Jan 03 23:27:57 <Jack87> bpadalino: you think so?
Jan 03 23:28:20 <bpadalino> Jack87: sure - have you seen processing.js ?
Jan 03 23:28:57 <Bad_Programmer> So how do you get a C++ program to work a the Pre?
Jan 03 23:29:05 <rbredow> Congrats on the OpenGL work.  You guys are amazing.
Jan 03 23:29:09 <Jack87> bpadalino: negative. but im not a programmer :(
Jan 03 23:29:13 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 03 23:29:22 <bpadalino> http://processingjs.org/source/basic-example/processingjs_basic-example.html - neat stuff
Jan 03 23:29:47 <rwhitby> Bad_Programmer: cross-compile it using cs07q3armel.
Jan 03 23:29:56 <zsoc> rbredow: we know
Jan 03 23:29:59 <Bad_Programmer> Thank you
Jan 03 23:30:29 <zsoc> rbredow: and by "we know" i mean "palm did all the work, we just reverse engineer apis ;)"
Jan 03 23:30:35 * cal_ stares at preware spinning cricle screen for 5 minutes .. lol
Jan 03 23:30:38 <rwhitby> rbredow: we just did some detective work - Palm actually implemented the libraries ...
Jan 03 23:30:48 <bpadalino> yeah .. we just linked it up
Jan 03 23:30:51 <rbredow> You've set expectations high.  I half-expected to find a "fix calendar bug" in Preware today.  :)
Jan 03 23:30:54 * rwhitby bbl
Jan 03 23:31:01 <bpadalino> i hope they're not mad if they announce this stuff and we stole all their thunder :(
Jan 03 23:31:06 <rbredow> yes, but reverse engineering that stuff this quickly, and making it work is pretty awesome.
Jan 03 23:31:10 <zsoc> I've never actually used my calender.
Jan 03 23:31:14 <rwhitby> lots of meetings on first day back at work ...
Jan 03 23:31:18 <zsoc> bpadalino: nah they want this i think
Jan 03 23:31:25 <bpadalino> death by 1000 meetings
Jan 03 23:31:27 <rbredow> I'm going to be at the event Thursday.  It'll be interesting to see what the vibe is.
Jan 03 23:31:31 <zsoc> rwhitby: go make some little chips or whatever it is you do ;)
Jan 03 23:31:37 <Jack87> bpadalino: that is really neat
Jan 03 23:31:47 <zsoc> Who is going to tweet from CES?
Jan 03 23:31:55 <bpadalino> does rwhitby still do ASIC stuff ?
Jan 03 23:31:57 <idontwan2know> Realistically, a great deal of the CES audience won't even know this stuff has happened.
Jan 03 23:32:00 <rwhitby> we are simply whistling to the tune that Palm's enlightened marketing and engineering managers have laid out for us to find.
Jan 03 23:32:06 <dangerskew123> ces expectations are pretty high
Jan 03 23:32:11 <rwhitby> idontwan2know: exactly
Jan 03 23:32:29 <Jack87> rwhitby: you really think its marketing?
Jan 03 23:32:38 <rwhitby> rbredow: make sure you're on wIRC while you'e there.
Jan 03 23:32:43 * zsoc wonders if we should set FlashEnable= to "true"
Jan 03 23:32:50 <idontwan2know> LOL
Jan 03 23:33:00 <dangerskew123> zsoc: do it
Jan 03 23:33:01 * rbredow goes to install wIRC.  
Jan 03 23:33:19 * rwhitby exits
Jan 03 23:33:19 <destinal> rwhitby: and yeah, we are adopting palm API's, even though they're undocumented by palm as of yet.   palm really deserves commendation for laying out this framework
Jan 03 23:34:11 <destinal> and also kudos to palm for enabling open source graphics stuff to work basically out of the box
Jan 03 23:34:17 <idontwan2know> I will say this, the fact that all this stuff is suddenly implemented at an advanced state without fanfare means that Palm has been working towards another huge CES event for a long time now.
Jan 03 23:34:31 <idontwan2know> Possibly since launch.
Jan 03 23:34:35 <destinal> idontwan2know: well, remember those job postings way back when?
Jan 03 23:34:58 <idontwan2know> Right.
Jan 03 23:35:07 <idontwan2know> At *least* since then.
Jan 03 23:35:09 <destinal> posted June 29
Jan 03 23:35:16 <bpadalino> they deserve a lot of credit for doing this with open source packages too
Jan 03 23:35:53 <destinal> bpadalino: though admittedly, it would be good if their packages were complete and buildable
Jan 03 23:36:00 <bpadalino> agreed
Jan 03 23:36:23 <Jack87> i think webos is aimed at geeks... and all the other stuff regular users do on it is just a simple given
Jan 03 23:36:26 <bpadalino> just headers are needed .. not sure what they're afraid of ..
Jan 03 23:36:32 <Jack87> a side effect result
Jan 03 23:36:39 <bpadalino> or if they just realize they're incomplete and don't care too much
Jan 03 23:36:40 <zsoc> bpadalino: has anyone emailed them yet?
Jan 03 23:36:42 <zsoc> maybe they are just waiting
Jan 03 23:36:53 <bpadalino> destinal emailed them a while ago about libPiranha stuff
Jan 03 23:36:57 <zsoc> ah
Jan 03 23:37:14 <bpadalino> maybe it's time for a new email since libSDL is incomplete
Jan 03 23:37:20 <bpadalino> maybe about libpurpleadapter too
Jan 03 23:37:27 <bpadalino> and i think i see that in the releases too, right ?
Jan 03 23:37:28 <destinal> I suppose I could email again in this context but I actually hope someone else, maybe someone who has asked for and gotten things successfully does it :)
Jan 03 23:38:24 * rbredow wonders if it's lame to ask here why I can't get wIRC to connect to freenode.net
Jan 03 23:38:47 <destinal> rbredow: we all connect to freenode with wirc  (since that's where the channel is)
Jan 03 23:38:57 <Jack87> rbredow: are you trying to use the same username you have now?
Jan 03 23:39:14 <rbredow> Using a new username...
Jan 03 23:39:25 <Jack87> oil: this is a call for you
Jan 03 23:39:26 <destinal> does clicking the server window return any error?
Jan 03 23:39:37 <destinal> like did the server deny you for some reason?
Jan 03 23:39:58 <rbredow> If I look at the server, it just says "Connecting..." and then a little bit later ~~~ Disconnected!
Jan 03 23:40:41 <bpadalino> what i am really hoping for is a nice native SDK so we can all cross compile with the same environment .. and all be happy
Jan 03 23:41:27 <dangerskew123> that's almost what I'm expecting from ces
Jan 03 23:41:28 <idontwan2know> I would think that would be reserved for special partners first (like EA and Epic?) before making its way to the general public.
Jan 03 23:42:25 <dangerskew123> perhaps. that's what MS. is doing with the zune hd
Jan 03 23:42:35 <destinal> idontwan2know: well, it IS
Jan 03 23:42:39 <destinal> for now
Jan 03 23:43:01 <destinal> idontwan2know: EA is using it to make Need For Speed in house now
Jan 03 23:43:07 <Traveler12> MS can't keep their Marketplace locked for too much longer before users, such as myself, revolt...
Jan 03 23:43:13 <destinal> based on that leaked video a while back
Jan 03 23:43:34 <rbredow-pre> Worked.  just had to try another server.
Jan 03 23:43:39 <bpadalino> i expect them to be invited up on stage to help present what they've done too .
Jan 03 23:43:40 <idontwan2know> destinal: yeah, exactly
Jan 03 23:43:42 <PreGame> destinal: check ops chan
Jan 03 23:43:48 <dangerskew123> I hope the NFS will be as good as NFS shift for iphone
Jan 03 23:44:42 <Traveler12> I vote to have the word "iPhone" banned from this channel.
Jan 03 23:45:00 <bpadalino> without the iphone, i am not sure the pre would exist
Jan 03 23:45:33 <KEYofR> trav head in sand comment
Jan 03 23:45:43 <Traveler12> =)
Jan 03 23:46:26 <destinal> dangerskew123: it's likely to be a direct port from the iphone one
Jan 03 23:48:18 <KEYofR> besides then how could you say "oh, how many apps can an iphone run at once? oh riiight."   hey theres a commercial, ps or top display instead of the coverage maps
Jan 03 23:49:44 <KEYofR> were so missing out just because of publicity money. android commercials make a huge deal over features pre already had 6 months before
Jan 03 23:50:19 <dangerskew123> DROID DOES
Jan 03 23:51:10 <idontwan2know> That's why getting on Verizon is a big deal.
Jan 03 23:51:21 <idontwan2know> It's not Motorola running all those Droid ads.
Jan 03 23:51:35 <bpadalino> i still kinda think the pre/webos is better suited for tinkerers..
Jan 03 23:51:52 <KEYofR> oit completely is. except the hardware
Jan 03 23:52:16 <idontwan2know> hardware is so overrated by phone junkies
Jan 03 23:52:48 <dangerskew123> it was even verizon who named it the droid
Jan 03 23:52:55 <KEYofR> I dont understand that statement. the pre is awkwards as hell to hold and use.
Jan 03 23:53:36 <idontwan2know> Are you serious? The Pre is usable one handed.
Jan 03 23:53:40 <KEYofR> or did you think I was talking and cpu mhz?
Jan 03 23:53:40 <idontwan2know> Try that on a droid.
Jan 03 23:53:59 <dangerskew123> the hardware is completely fine to me.  only problem my pre has is a very small amount of oreo, which is normal
Jan 03 23:54:06 <idontwan2know> but yes, I was referring to internals
Jan 03 23:54:40 <destinal> bpadalino: hmmm, so "Porting OpenGL 1.0 or OpenGL ES 1.0 applications to OpenGL ES 2.0 needs a rewrite to replace fixed function API usage with programmable shaders"
Jan 03 23:54:51 <bpadalino> yes
Jan 03 23:54:53 <KEYofR> the treo or various other handsets are well done and useable with one hand. pre, is better than a few, worse than many.
Jan 03 23:54:58 <bpadalino> they require those shaders
Jan 03 23:54:59 <destinal> bpadalino: mildly annoying
Jan 03 23:55:15 <bpadalino> destinal: i have the powervr demos for opengles2 ..
Jan 03 23:55:21 <bpadalino> but they want their powervr shell ..
Jan 03 23:55:49 <bpadalino> looked like a decent amount of code to go through to hack together something that wraps it up into SDL
Jan 03 23:56:01 <zsoc> destinal: bpadalino: we aren't the only people doing this, there are tons of docs on gles porting, and even some wrappers
Jan 03 23:56:43 <bpadalino> i saw a DOGLESS open source app .. that would take GL apps and do the GLES stuff underneath .. but not sure how primitive it is
Jan 03 23:57:02 <destinal> dogless lol
Jan 03 23:57:07 <bpadalino> http://opensource.dylogic.com/DOGLESS/Articles/About.html
Jan 03 23:58:39 <bpadalino> the pdf in their documentation says it doesn't support some stuff yet ..
Jan 03 23:58:46 <bpadalino> required for q3 arena
Jan 04 00:01:44 <destinal> bpadalino: looks like I've got a lot to learn about openGL in general and ES porting is looking like an interesting challenge
Jan 04 00:03:07 <destinal> bpadalino: I'm surprised how much of it is programming the graphics card to do things rather than just dumping data to it
Jan 04 00:03:09 <Bmyers> you guys must be having a blast over here with 1.3.5
Jan 04 00:03:41 <destinal> but I'm a total 3d acceleration newb :)
Jan 04 00:04:15 <destinal> Bmyers: yup, good times
Jan 04 00:04:20 <Bmyers> doom, playing quake now...
Jan 04 00:04:29 <Bmyers> thats great...
Jan 04 00:04:46 <webizard> been trying to play quake but it doesn't start... :(
Jan 04 00:04:53 <bpadalino> destinal: yeah, i did some opengl stuff in college, but not for years ..
Jan 04 00:05:12 <bpadalino> this whole shader stuff is all new to me
Jan 04 00:05:23 <bpadalino> seems a little wonky they have compilers built into their drivers ..
Jan 04 00:05:30 <bpadalino> and you pass in a c-like program
Jan 04 00:05:46 <zsoc> There are people who all they do for years is OpenGL, it's really deep stuff.
Jan 04 00:06:27 <bpadalino> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLSL
Jan 04 00:07:51 <Bmyers> any of you guys know if a can connect to the emu sqlite3 process with a client on my desktop?
Jan 04 00:08:10 <destinal> Bmyers: what sqlite3 process?
Jan 04 00:08:25 <destinal> Bmyers: sqlite isn't daemon based like mysql
Jan 04 00:08:30 <Bmyers> that might answer it right there..
Jan 04 00:08:47 <destinal> it's basically a totally file based database loaded inside the program that's dealing with it
Jan 04 00:08:57 <Bmyers> ah, bummer...
Jan 04 00:09:01 <Bmyers> cant get there from here?
Jan 04 00:09:13 <cal_> zaoc: doom and quake dont use opengl thou on pre?
Jan 04 00:09:26 <destinal> so if you want to manipulate it on your desktop, copy the sqlite3 db files to your desktop
Jan 04 00:09:43 <destinal> but if you want to copy them back you probably have to stop a number of services that may be working with them
Jan 04 00:10:14 <destinal> many find that ssh'ing into the pre and using the command line sqlite3 tool is a good solution for manual editing
Jan 04 00:10:22 <Bmyers> can u connect to /media/internal on the emu?
Jan 04 00:10:31 <bpadalino> cal, i don't think they use opengl .. but they may use the hardware underneath since it's abstracted away via SDL
Jan 04 00:10:53 <destinal> cal_: doom and quake are software rendered in the current port
Jan 04 00:10:56 <Bmyers> destinal: i do that now but want to load up a few thousand records of test data
Jan 04 00:11:16 <destinal> there is hardware acceleration but not for any 3d stuff in quake for instance
Jan 04 00:11:28 <destinal> just 2d type accel
Jan 04 00:11:31 <bpadalino> right
Jan 04 00:11:44 <bpadalino> though i am curious about a pixi ..
Jan 04 00:11:52 <cal_> doom just says starting.. and then nothing
Jan 04 00:11:52 <bpadalino> i am tempted to pick one up if i can find one cheap
Jan 04 00:11:58 <JMyaDaGod> Whats up guys ?
Jan 04 00:12:22 <bpadalino> might as well wait for the vzw one with wifi tho
Jan 04 00:12:39 <cal_> destinal: so doom/quake don't use the gpu chip?
Jan 04 00:12:42 <Bmyers> vzw pixi with wifi?
Jan 04 00:13:00 <destinal> cal_: well, they do, but not to do 3d raytracing stuff
Jan 04 00:13:10 <cal_> ahh
Jan 04 00:13:35 <destinal> quake would probably perform much better if we could get it working in OpenGL ES  (hardware 3d)
Jan 04 00:13:53 <nfoxTc> doom doesnt matter too much huh
Jan 04 00:14:04 <destinal> DOOM's plenty fast :)
Jan 04 00:14:11 <nfoxTc> yeah lol
Jan 04 00:14:21 <destinal> unless you want to play more than five copies at once I suppose
Jan 04 00:14:23 <nfoxTc> you think multiplayer over wifi would be possible?
Jan 04 00:14:53 <cal_> are they running as X apps or svgalib apps or what
Jan 04 00:14:59 <nfoxTc> or even better....over 3g
Jan 04 00:15:00 <destinal> cal_: SDL
Jan 04 00:15:07 <Bmyers> 3g DOOM
Jan 04 00:15:12 <Bmyers> yeah man!!!!
Jan 04 00:15:16 <nfoxTc> ha
Jan 04 00:15:33 <nfoxTc> sprint would suddenly cap "unlimited" data plans
Jan 04 00:15:36 <Bmyers> that cool. you guys crack me up over here..
Jan 04 00:15:43 <cal_> destinal: which luna does not use? so it kills luna and starts sdl when clicking the icon?
Jan 04 00:15:44 <destinal> cal_: since there are a number of SDL apps out, we have a lot of stuff we can port :)
Jan 04 00:15:51 <idontwan2know> multiplayer seems really farfetched to me
Jan 04 00:15:57 <cal_> destinal: cool!
Jan 04 00:16:03 <destinal> cal_: no, SDL and  luna get along well now
Jan 04 00:16:24 <cal_> i remember hearing something about having to kill luna to get control of the screen
Jan 04 00:16:35 <Bmyers> anyone hear of any racing games getting ported?
Jan 04 00:16:38 <destinal> cal_: that was before
Jan 04 00:16:42 <destinal> cal_: this is now
Jan 04 00:16:44 <cal_> ahh ;)
Jan 04 00:17:05 <destinal> cal_: palm included kernel drivers and system libraries and IPC between SDL and Luna
Jan 04 00:17:23 <destinal> cal_: check out this video
Jan 04 00:17:25 <destinal> El6wDFfn1jw
Jan 04 00:17:25 <zsoc> cal_: luna uses /dev/fb0, sdl apps use /dev/fb1
Jan 04 00:17:27 <destinal> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El6wDFfn1jw
Jan 04 00:17:32 <cal_> sweet, thanks
Jan 04 00:17:35 <zsoc> cal_: that's over simplifying it, but basically
Jan 04 00:17:52 <cal_> so we have the world now, so to speak ;)
Jan 04 00:17:59 <destinal> that's an SDL app, when it starts drawing, Luna puts it in a card
Jan 04 00:18:04 <destinal> basically
Jan 04 00:18:13 <Abyssul> How does that signify openGL?
Jan 04 00:18:25 <nfoxTc> i was wondering the same thing
Jan 04 00:18:27 <Abyssul> Seems like a bunch of circles moving
Jan 04 00:18:38 <destinal> Abyssul: that's written in openGL, it's being rendered by the GPU
Jan 04 00:18:39 <zsoc> Abyssul: it's written entirely to openGL ES spec
Jan 04 00:18:53 <tmzt> destinal: what kernel drivers?
Jan 04 00:18:54 <Abyssul> Hmm
Jan 04 00:18:57 <zsoc> the gpu is making those circles lol
Jan 04 00:19:06 <nfoxTc> lol but wheres the proof?
Jan 04 00:19:06 <Abyssul> That is pretty good
Jan 04 00:19:11 <KEYofR> sweet
Jan 04 00:19:13 <zsoc> nfoxTc: read the code?
Jan 04 00:19:20 <tmzt> also, isn't /dev/fb1 a workaround? wouldn't using gl with a compositor/redirector eliminate the need for that?
Jan 04 00:19:22 <destinal> nfoxTc: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom
Jan 04 00:19:25 <zsoc> nfoxTc: what proof do you want? the source is out there. many of us compiled it ourselves :P
Jan 04 00:19:40 <zsoc> tmzt: er, it does, that's why we can have more than 1 sdl app using /dev/fb1
Jan 04 00:19:52 <nfoxTc> ah ok
Jan 04 00:19:52 <Abyssul> Now we just have to wait for GPU to be implemented into Luna?
Jan 04 00:20:12 <tmzt> yeah, I would bet that doesn't work on gles 1.1
Jan 04 00:20:18 <zsoc> Abyssul: that might be awhile
Jan 04 00:20:26 <tmzt> zsoc: sorry? what's the kernel patches that redirect through userspace
Jan 04 00:20:36 <destinal> tmzt: yeah this is GLES 2.0
Jan 04 00:20:36 <tmzt> is this not the omap2fb overlay device then? it's something else
Jan 04 00:20:40 <cal_> hmm the opengl app stops when minimizing the card. no multitasking there, lol
Jan 04 00:21:14 <KEYofR> does the app stop or just the video?
Jan 04 00:21:16 <tmzt> 15:35 <+zsoc> tmzt: er, it does, that's why we can have more than 1 sdl app  using /dev/fb1
Jan 04 00:21:17 <zsoc> cal_: it doesn't stop so much than... slow down... a lot
Jan 04 00:21:20 <tmzt> you can have more than one app?
Jan 04 00:21:27 <cal_> zsoc: ahh
Jan 04 00:21:29 <zsoc> tmzt: why not?
Jan 04 00:21:30 <destinal> tmzt: the kernel patch palm applied is here http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.3.5/linuxkernel-2.6.24-patch.gz
Jan 04 00:21:35 <Abyssul> zsoc: I dont really care so much for games. I just want the GPU to speed and smooth out the WebOS UI
Jan 04 00:21:47 <zsoc> Abyssul: others think games are very important, including palm
Jan 04 00:21:48 <destinal> I don't know if they got the drivers from TI or wrote them or what
Jan 04 00:22:02 <Abyssul> zsoc: Yea I know
Jan 04 00:22:16 <Abyssul> zsoc: Not my cup of tea, but I understand its importance
Jan 04 00:22:24 <JMyaDaGod> <i think games are important even if it just to say u know my phone can do that
Jan 04 00:22:35 <tmzt> destinal: I've seen that, it's very long I got to about 25%
Jan 04 00:22:51 <destinal> yeah, a lot more than  the powervr stuff in there
Jan 04 00:22:55 <tmzt> how do you know it's being composited in userspace?
Jan 04 00:23:56 <JMyaDaGod> zsoc: what kind of programming would u need to know to be able to make head way with the pre :i am thinking of changing my class schedule this semester LOL
Jan 04 00:24:13 <destinal> tmzt: I know there are some references to compositing in palm's SDL patch and it does IPC to Luna, but I don't know for certain
Jan 04 00:24:23 <tmzt> right, but through kernel driver?
Jan 04 00:24:32 <tmzt> that's what I'm asking, I know about the IPC
Jan 04 00:24:45 <zsoc> tmzt: i'm confused about your question
Jan 04 00:25:06 <tmzt> 15:35 < tmzt> also, isn't /dev/fb1 a workaround? wouldn't using gl with a  compositor/redirector eliminate the need for that?
Jan 04 00:25:12 <tmzt> 15:35 <+zsoc> tmzt: er, it does, that's why we can have more than 1 sdl app  using /dev/fb1
Jan 04 00:25:23 <tmzt> that was an answer to my question?
Jan 04 00:25:24 <zsoc> ahh
Jan 04 00:25:34 <Abyssul> Im enjoying all this GPU business, but Im still looking for multiple settings for the vibrate function. The email vibrate sucks.... lol
Jan 04 00:25:45 <cal_> hmm doom wont start.. saw messages in log : 2010-01-04T00:24:38.955688Z [425] palm-webos-device daemon.info upstart: (00425/943703613) org.webosinternals.sdldoom goal changed from start to stop
Jan 04 00:26:13 <zsoc> tmzt: Maybe my lack of understanding lead me to believe that since we can launch more than 1 sdl/native app in cards, all on /dev/fb1, that there must be a compositor in the kernel driver.
Jan 04 00:26:42 <zsoc> cal_: you have 1.3.5, and not have mytether?
Jan 04 00:27:03 <zsoc> tmzt: but i suppose it could just be 'pausing' the surfaces not being used
Jan 04 00:27:13 <cal_> erm i like mytether ;)
Jan 04 00:28:03 <en0x> mytether suck malls
Jan 04 00:28:09 <destinal> mytether installs a kernel module that breaks all this stuff
Jan 04 00:28:21 <Abyssul> Wasnt someone porting GNUboy?
Jan 04 00:28:22 <destinal> the wifi host fix I think
Jan 04 00:28:24 <en0x> s/malls/balls/
Jan 04 00:28:24 <infobot> en0x meant: mytether suck balls
Jan 04 00:28:32 <cal_> destinal: thats not nice
Jan 04 00:28:34 <tmzt> zsoc: but they just said it closes the application when you close the card?
Jan 04 00:28:37 <cal_> is there an alternative?
Jan 04 00:28:38 <tmzt> or background it
Jan 04 00:28:45 <destinal> lol sucking malls is a funny image
Jan 04 00:28:54 <en0x> typo
Jan 04 00:28:55 <en0x> ;p
Jan 04 00:29:07 <zsoc> cal_: freetether? anyway, mytether wifi fix destroys your kernel module support
Jan 04 00:29:10 <tmzt> 15:36 < cal_> hmm the opengl app stops when minimizing the card. no  multitasking there, lol
Jan 04 00:29:26 <bpadalino> it doesn't stop - it just goes very very slowly
Jan 04 00:29:45 <antianalog> i'm having a tether issue, anyone wanna help me with it?
Jan 04 00:29:49 <Abyssul> tmzt, whats the multitask? Its to save battery and CPU ?
Jan 04 00:30:01 <cal_> zsoc: oh okay so i will just disable the patch
Jan 04 00:31:57 <rick-home> antianalog  what's your issue
Jan 04 00:32:13 <cal_> zsoc: I am guessing freetether isn't quite as ready-to-use yet.
Jan 04 00:33:01 <antianalog> rick-home, ubuntu 9.10 recognizes the pre as a network but when i connect to it i cannot view web pages
Jan 04 00:33:15 <antianalog> i did the dhcp tut on webos-internals
Jan 04 00:33:20 <zsoc> cal_: probably true, i'm unsure tho. for wired tethering it probably works fine
Jan 04 00:33:21 <antianalog> i don't know how to manually assign an ip either
Jan 04 00:33:41 <zsoc> antianalog: are you getting an ip from your pre?
Jan 04 00:33:55 <antianalog> how would i check to see that?
Jan 04 00:34:03 <MiX-MaN> whats the testing feed again?
Jan 04 00:34:45 <kerwood> antianalog: the ifconfig command is a good start
Jan 04 00:35:14 <destinal> has anyone here tried using scratchbox to build stuff for the pre?
Jan 04 00:35:23 <antianalog> ok i see usb0 when i did ifconfig
Jan 04 00:37:02 <kerwood> mytether broke over 1.3.5 on my Pixi, but I came up with a workaround --
Jan 04 00:37:02 <kerwood> it took a half-day of screwing with it.
Jan 04 00:38:17 <dtzWill> good news-- I think I figured, at least superficially, what's causing qyake to fail
Jan 04 00:38:35 <dtzWill> if it fails for you and you wanna tst the fix msg me
Jan 04 00:38:45 <zsoc> unfortunately mine works :)
Jan 04 00:39:14 <zsoc> kesne: get quake in the app catalog yet? :p
Jan 04 00:39:32 <antianalog> ok so right now it says i'm connected to both auto eth0 and auto usb0
Jan 04 00:39:52 <antianalog> on my pc
Jan 04 00:39:54 <kesne> zsoc: haha
Jan 04 00:39:56 <antianalog> that mean it's working?
Jan 04 00:40:22 <zsoc> antianalog: it means you're connected to your pre through usbnet
Jan 04 00:40:28 <zsoc> maybe not your definition of "working"
Jan 04 00:40:33 <kerwood> antianalog: has the usb0 interface been assigned an address?
Jan 04 00:40:53 <antianalog> kerwood, idk bc i don't know how to check that
Jan 04 00:41:42 <antianalog> ifconfig says usb0 with all the same info as ppp0 and eth0 and lo
Jan 04 00:43:06 <cryptk> anyone know if there has been any progress on OpenGL?  just curious
Jan 04 00:43:17 <cryptk> or opengles?
Jan 04 00:43:48 <zsoc> antianalog: you might have to run ifconfig as root to get ip
Jan 04 00:44:00 <zsoc> cryptk: progress in the sense that we proved it works?
Jan 04 00:44:14 <zsoc> antianalog: or if you're on ubuntu, use that silly 'sudo' thing
Jan 04 00:44:18 <antianalog> inet addr:192.168.0.202
Jan 04 00:44:21 <cryptk> zsoc, progress as in any closer to getting it to be usable
Jan 04 00:44:25 <antianalog> that's from my pre
Jan 04 00:44:27 <zsoc> cryptk: well then yes, it works
Jan 04 00:44:28 <antianalog> running ifconfig on my pre
Jan 04 00:44:29 <cryptk> so yeah, prooved that it works I guess
Jan 04 00:44:47 <zsoc> antianalog: no no, you need to run it on your computer to see if you got an address via dhcp. the pre's address is always 192.168.0.202
Jan 04 00:45:05 <antianalog> ok then yes, when i ran ifconfig on my pc i found and ip
Jan 04 00:45:10 <zsoc> cryptk: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom
Jan 04 00:45:12 <antianalog> for usb0
Jan 04 00:45:17 <zsoc> antianalog: please share :P
Jan 04 00:45:28 <cal_> anyone know where I can get a clean .myTether folder ;)
Jan 04 00:45:37 <antianalog> inet addr:192.168.0.138
Jan 04 00:45:43 <zsoc> antianalog: then you should be good
Jan 04 00:45:55 <zsoc> antianalog: as long as you set your iptables properly on webos
Jan 04 00:46:05 <cryptk> very nice, I will have to try that out
Jan 04 00:46:08 <antianalog> i copied a script from the forums
Jan 04 00:46:17 <antianalog> the pre-start and all that jazz?
Jan 04 00:46:23 <antianalog> MASQURADES or w/e?
Jan 04 00:46:24 <zsoc> antianalog: er, not sure
Jan 04 00:46:30 <zsoc> antianalog: Yes, the MASQ
Jan 04 00:46:32 <antianalog> let me just find the script and share
Jan 04 00:46:36 <zsoc> antianalog: no it's ok
Jan 04 00:46:41 <zsoc> really, you should be good
Jan 04 00:46:55 <Jack87> cal_: why do you need one
Jan 04 00:46:58 <antianalog> ok, so then on my pc i am connected through auto usb0
Jan 04 00:47:07 <Jack87> does doom launch for you?
Jan 04 00:47:11 <antianalog> do you d/c from the eth0?
Jan 04 00:47:31 <antianalog> cuz i thought i had to dc from the eth0 to use the usb0 connection
Jan 04 00:47:37 <cal_> jack87: doom still wont run after i disabled the mytether wifi patch.
Jan 04 00:49:41 <destinal> cal_: did you reboot?
Jan 04 00:49:58 <destinal> not sure it's needed but I'd try it
Jan 04 00:50:01 <zsoc> antianalog: that might be the case
Jan 04 00:50:17 <zsoc> destinal: reboot is necessary yes, unless he wants to play with modprobe, which i'm not sure works
Jan 04 00:50:46 <Jack87> cal_: PM me
Jan 04 00:51:10 <cal_> destinal: i believe the act of disabling the patch automaticly reboots it
Jan 04 00:52:26 <kerwood> when did lsmod stop working? or did it always not produce anything?
Jan 04 00:52:27 <zsoc> Ok. chmod 755 still gives 'permission denied' error as root. What gives?
Jan 04 00:52:41 <zsoc> kerwood: no it should work
Jan 04 00:52:48 <kerwood> hmm
Jan 04 00:53:08 <en0x> lsmod works
Jan 04 00:53:35 <destinal> zsoc: where are you running chmod 755 from?
Jan 04 00:53:48 <zsoc> destinal: root?
Jan 04 00:54:00 <destinal> err
Jan 04 00:54:09 <zsoc> destinal: ah crap
Jan 04 00:54:10 <zsoc> i see now
Jan 04 00:54:11 <destinal> like chmod 755 what, on what filesystem, assuming on your pre?
Jan 04 00:54:23 <zsoc> no no, my bad :) thanks
Jan 04 00:54:31 <destinal> np
Jan 04 00:55:02 <kerwood> welp, I guess lsmod just doesn't work on my Pixi -- I just get the 1st line and nothing else :(
Jan 04 00:55:11 <zsoc> kerwood: oh
Jan 04 00:55:16 <zsoc> kerwood: you didn't say you had a pixi
Jan 04 00:55:30 <killz> hey, did quake get removed from preware?
Jan 04 00:56:02 <kerwood> zsoc: it's not clear to me how that's different, but it's becoming clearer with time :/
Jan 04 00:56:25 <killz> anybody got a clue?
Jan 04 00:56:38 <rick-home> killz  no, quake has not been removed from preware
Jan 04 01:00:31 <killz> hmm, I wonder where it is then... I updated the feeds but I don't see it
Jan 04 01:00:54 <killz> precentral is also missing it
Jan 04 01:01:11 <QuantumB> What are you looking for?
Jan 04 01:01:41 <killz> either doom or quake
Jan 04 01:01:50 <QuantumB> Are you a US sprint user?
Jan 04 01:02:04 <killz> yep
Jan 04 01:03:26 <geist> kerwood: what is in the lsmod line?
Jan 04 01:03:37 <geist> i think there may be only one module on pixi
Jan 04 01:05:06 <Traveler12> Saw some Pixi discussions on here... Is there anything hardware-wise that is keeping the Pixi from joining in on the Quake/Doom fun?
Jan 04 01:05:08 <zsoc> geist: from 3 or 4 people i've asked, there are consistently 0 modules
Jan 04 01:05:16 <kerwood> geist: as follows: "Module                  Size  Used by"
Jan 04 01:05:31 <geist> kay. zero modules then
Jan 04 01:05:47 <geist> in general, we'd prefer zero modules on all products, but so it goes
Jan 04 01:05:54 <kerwood> same with "cat /proc/modules"
Jan 04 01:06:02 <geist> no modules then
Jan 04 01:06:06 <killz> so, anybody got a clue where I can get doom or quake? Preware is missing them...
Jan 04 01:07:31 <rick-home> killz  do you have webosquickinstall??
Jan 04 01:07:48 <killz> yeah, is it on here?
Jan 04 01:07:49 <cashen> killz: you're killing me
Jan 04 01:08:01 <zsoc> killz: preware is not missing them. if you are not seeing them, you have an issue you should look into
Jan 04 01:08:01 <killz> ...funny
Jan 04 01:08:12 <zsoc> killz: go to 'manage feeds' and see what it says under 'webos-internals'
Jan 04 01:08:29 <killz> should I reinstall?
Jan 04 01:08:43 <killz> they are all on
Jan 04 01:09:01 <rick-home> killz, they are on the webos-internals feeds in webos-quick-install
Jan 04 01:09:08 <rick-home> which is where preware gets them from as well.
Jan 04 01:09:28 <killz> ok, let me check
Jan 04 01:09:33 <rick-home> you might try refreshing feeds in preware after ensureing that the webosinternals feeds are turned on
Jan 04 01:09:37 <webizard> sure you up'd to .5
Jan 04 01:09:48 <kerwood> I found I had to use webosquickinstall to successfully update preware installer
Jan 04 01:10:09 <kerwood> then i started seeing more pkgs
Jan 04 01:10:21 <rick-home> killz  you might want to use wwebosqi  to update the package manager service
Jan 04 01:10:31 <zsoc> killz: not check they it is in, check what the feed url is below where it shows it's on :P
Jan 04 01:10:36 <zsoc> killz: do what rick just said
Jan 04 01:11:16 <rick-home> zsoc, can I as a side-question quickly?  Do we have any idea what the problem is with doom and quake on the pixi?
Jan 04 01:11:42 <zsoc> rick-home: it's somewhat of a rumor, but the pixi doesn't seem to uh... do any of the magic the pre does.
Jan 04 01:11:52 <zsoc> rick-home: noteably the kernel module and the existance of /dev/fb1
Jan 04 01:12:11 <rick-home> ahhhhh
Jan 04 01:12:36 <rick-home> so it looks like the pixi got an incomplete build of 135, or palm released the fun stuff to the pre by accident.
Jan 04 01:13:13 <cryptk> zsoc, that page you linked to me about opengles, it says to extract palms patched SDL library... is there anything out there explaining how to do that?
Jan 04 01:13:33 <kerwood> the 0.9.12 preware app shows Doom on my pixi, but I can see there's no point to getting it
Jan 04 01:13:53 <zsoc> rick-home: someone should try putting the kernel module on the pixi and modprobing it
Jan 04 01:13:59 <rick-home> and we don't have any sophisticated pixi users who can swap kernals with the pre kernal ???  or are we sure that isn't going to work?
Jan 04 01:14:29 <rick-home> cryptk  if you can find the files, 7zip will open them.
Jan 04 01:14:35 <zsoc> cryptk: destinal :D
Jan 04 01:14:43 <killz> wow, you guys were right, reinstalling preware...
Jan 04 01:14:49 <rick-home> but cryptk  you're going to have a lot of googling to do to be able to use them.
Jan 04 01:15:15 <cryptk> alright... I prolly jsut wont mess with it then, lol... I have a diff project that I need to work on.. haha
Jan 04 01:15:33 <rick-home> Unless the phrase "cross compiling an arm toolchain" is meaningful to you, and you understand why I mis-spoke when I said that, you have a couple of weeks of reading ahead of you
Jan 04 01:16:42 <dudemycar> what are the settings I need to put in for wirc on the Pre? I wanna be able to keep up with this IRC chat on my phone.
Jan 04 01:17:06 <Abyssul> irc.freenode.net server
Jan 04 01:17:24 <destinal> cryptk: it's pretty easy actually
Jan 04 01:17:26 <zsoc> rick-home: many just install debian chroots on their pre, it's fairly simple :)
Jan 04 01:17:27 <cryptk> rick-home, actually I do understand you there, lol
Jan 04 01:17:34 <Abyssul> and one of the commands in "advanced" should be "/join #webos-internals"
Jan 04 01:17:44 <Abyssul> with auto-connect turned on
Jan 04 01:17:54 <cryptk> destinal, if you feel like pointing me in the right direction?
Jan 04 01:17:55 <dudemycar> ok, thanks Abyssul. I'll try that out.
Jan 04 01:18:03 <cryptk> a good web link for me to read while I am at work tonight, lol
Jan 04 01:18:22 <destinal> cryptk:  wget http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.3.5/libsdl-1.2.tgz;  tar xvzf libsdl-1.2.tgz;  wget http://palm.cdnetworks.net/opensource/1.3.5/libsdl-1.2-patch.gz;  gunzip libsdl-1.2-patch.gz;  patch -p0 < libsdl-1.2-patch
Jan 04 01:19:21 <christpunk01> thanks Abyssul! works perfect.
Jan 04 01:20:06 <cryptk> I will try it out in a but destinal, thanks
Jan 04 01:21:26 <rick-home> killz left.  :-(  I was going to try to talk him into linking the kernal module.
Jan 04 01:21:27 <rick-home> :-(
Jan 04 01:23:08 <destinal> cryptk: added it to the wiki article  http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom
Jan 04 01:24:04 <zsoc> destinal: good boy :>
Jan 04 01:26:04 <zsoc> oil: you finish porting freeciv yet?
Jan 04 01:26:05 <destinal> rwhitby: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/OpenGL_Triangle_of_Doom  should now have enough info for anyone to build in chroot
Jan 04 01:27:25 <destinal> rwhitby: have you played with scratchbox?  I think it has some advantages over the optware build environment because it's got LD_LIBRARY_PATH hacks to make the host system totally look ARM-like to the stuff we'll be autoconfing
Jan 04 01:28:17 <destinal> in other words we should be able to ./configure && make   at least on our own cross-compile environments
Jan 04 01:28:56 <destinal> since my pre hates life as a build box, I think I'll have to switch things up before I can build a working dosbox
Jan 04 01:29:14 <dtzWill> is anyone here that had issues running quake? there were a few before.... i want to confirm that i fixed it, and fix it if not :)
Jan 04 01:29:18 <nfoxTc> what do you guys mean by a cross-compile enviroment
Jan 04 01:29:30 <rick-home> dtzWill  seems to work for me.
Jan 04 01:29:32 <dangerskew123> dosbox will be amazing
Jan 04 01:29:54 <destinal> nfoxTc: a cross compile toolchain and enough of a distribution / userland to build apps on
Jan 04 01:30:04 <nfoxTc> i c
Jan 04 01:30:08 <destinal> that is cross compiled for ARM so that it will link with what we want to build
Jan 04 01:30:15 <zsoc> nfoxTc: your computer is probably x86. the pre is arm (or a version of it). you can't run binaries/executables built on 1 architecture for a different one.
Jan 04 01:30:19 <destinal> so we can build pre binaries on a PC
Jan 04 01:30:23 <dtzWill> rick-home: yeah, it should work for most. there were a few that it didn't and i want to make sure they're fixed before i push an update :)
Jan 04 01:30:26 <zsoc> nfoxTc: look up cpu architecture :)
Jan 04 01:30:31 <nfoxTc> Ah, I see
Jan 04 01:30:37 <nfoxTc> No I understand now
Jan 04 01:30:40 <JMyaDaGod> dtzWill :quake still running good for me just showed my wife the game right now
Jan 04 01:30:45 <nfoxTc> just wasn't sure what the term ment
Jan 04 01:30:59 <nfoxTc> that has to be through some form of emulation though right?
Jan 04 01:31:01 <dtzWill> JMyaDaGod: :)
Jan 04 01:31:23 <destinal> dtzWill: how are you building quake, just the codesourcery toolchain and modified makefiles?
Jan 04 01:31:23 <zsoc> nfoxTc: not exactly. you use a cross-compile tool chain. I guess it's _sort_ of like emulation.
Jan 04 01:31:37 <dtzWill> destinal: yep
Jan 04 01:31:42 <haeffb> Pixi at your service!
Jan 04 01:31:45 <zsoc> nfoxTc: your host is one arch, but you build/compile the files against your "target" arch
Jan 04 01:31:52 <zsoc> haeffb: try to load the pvr kernel module
Jan 04 01:32:07 <haeffb> engrish pls
Jan 04 01:32:13 <rick-home> zsoc, you're probably going to have to give a LOT more information than that.
Jan 04 01:32:21 <haeffb> speak slowly and loudly. I'm old
Jan 04 01:32:21 <nfoxTc> makes sense
Jan 04 01:32:26 <nfoxTc> not really
Jan 04 01:32:33 <haeffb> i tried.
Jan 04 01:32:35 <destinal> dtzWill: how long would you say it took to get things compiling the first time from having the toolchain installed?
Jan 04 01:32:37 <haeffb> really I did
Jan 04 01:32:37 <nfoxTc> I know a little C so I can follow a little
Jan 04 01:32:40 <cashen> Interesting Interview about Flash 10.1 using GPU on mobile devices, http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplayer/articles/mobile_demos_fp10.1/popup04.html
Jan 04 01:32:45 <nfoxTc> and a little about hardware
Jan 04 01:32:50 <zsoc> rick-home: i was hoping you would provide him with the module and see if he could modprobe it :)
Jan 04 01:33:09 <rick-home> :-)  hahahahahaha
Jan 04 01:33:17 <rick-home> and furthermore hahahahaha
Jan 04 01:33:36 <zsoc> rick-home: i'm porting 2 sdl apps at the same time (with giant problems) and i have no idea where to start with even finding the module, let alone the proper way of implementing it
Jan 04 01:33:37 <dtzWill> destinal: idk 4 hours? i practiced on sdldoom first so i had a good idea of what i was doing
Jan 04 01:33:45 <dtzWill> destinal: well, better idea anyway :)
Jan 04 01:34:02 <destinal> ah, ok.  so that's why I want to set up an environment where we can just ./configure && make :)
Jan 04 01:34:04 <zsoc> rick-home: we should somehow first verify that the pixi is running the same kernel patches
Jan 04 01:34:10 <rick-home> zsoc, oh.  :-(  I thought you ment thata you had one, you needed someone with a pixi to test.
Jan 04 01:34:16 <destinal> especially with autoconf stuff it can be a pain to manually edit things
Jan 04 01:34:40 <JMyaDaGod> had anyone not updated to 1.3.5 yet???? i need a favor please
Jan 04 01:34:40 <rick-home> zsoc, is there a way to query the pixi that we can strings the kernal stuff?
Jan 04 01:34:46 <zsoc> rick-home: ok ok i'll try
Jan 04 01:35:01 <zsoc> haeffb: you there. with the face and the hair
Jan 04 01:35:10 <haeffb> who? me?
Jan 04 01:35:26 <JMyaDaGod> my boy is trying to update right now and he is saying its telling him updates not available now try again later anyone got any ideas????
Jan 04 01:35:30 <destinal> zsoc: and the eyes
Jan 04 01:35:37 <zsoc> haeffb: tell me what's in your /lib/modules/2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430/
Jan 04 01:36:04 <haeffb> uh. this is a really STOCK pixi
Jan 04 01:36:25 <rick-home> haeffb do you have novaterm on your pc?
Jan 04 01:36:28 <destinal> zsoc: too lazy to grab a pixi doctor ?
Jan 04 01:36:34 <haeffb> putty
Jan 04 01:36:42 <zsoc> destinal: i wasn't planning on doing this :P
Jan 04 01:36:55 <rick-home> haeffb  but if you have putty, then you have a non-stock pixi...
Jan 04 01:36:57 <destinal> zsoc: no worries just giving you a hard time
Jan 04 01:37:04 <haeffb> I have a non-stock Pre
Jan 04 01:37:07 <rick-home> is preware on it haeffb
Jan 04 01:37:11 <rick-home> on the pixi?
Jan 04 01:37:16 <haeffb> yeppers
Jan 04 01:37:21 <rick-home> install terminal
Jan 04 01:37:25 <rick-home> and install openssh
Jan 04 01:37:44 <rick-home> then in terminal type:  ls /lib/modules/2.6.24-palm-joplin-3430/
Jan 04 01:38:35 <haeffb> i'll let you know when I get there. gonna take a minute
Jan 04 01:38:40 <zonyl> Hi All.  Im trying to port over a SDL Vnc client and am getting this error:  video mode: SDL_HWSURFACE and/or SDL_DOUBLEBUF not supported.  Is this accurate or so I need something in my config to get doublebuffered drawing?
Jan 04 01:39:04 <zsoc> zonyl: you! yes! i'm trying to debug the same error
Jan 04 01:39:13 <rick-home> wow, the gates really ARE wide open.
Jan 04 01:39:21 <kerwood> my 1.3.5 pixi only has /lib/modules2.6.24-palm-chuck/
Jan 04 01:39:41 <zsoc> zonyl: I am 95% sure that SDL_HWSURFACE is supported, and i disabled SDL_DOUBLEBUF in my application. So I'm having trouble finding out what causes that error. Have you tried a strace?
Jan 04 01:40:05 <zonyl> zsoc: hehe. I did exactly the same thing and am at the same point! ;)
Jan 04 01:40:14 <rick-home> kerwood, that's the only /lib/modules you have?
Jan 04 01:40:15 <zonyl> do you get the black screen as well? ;)
Jan 04 01:40:18 <zsoc> kerwood: rick: haeffb:, oh it would seem to be a different kernel
Jan 04 01:40:28 <rick-home> it would, yes.
Jan 04 01:40:31 <haeffb> so, stop installing terminal?
Jan 04 01:40:32 <zsoc> zonyl: nah, my app shuts down after it gets the SDL error
Jan 04 01:40:38 <kerwood> rick-home: correct
Jan 04 01:40:43 <rick-home> geist always has said that the pixi is NOT binary compatible with the pre.
Jan 04 01:40:54 <rick-home> every time we've asked him.
Jan 04 01:40:57 <zsoc> haeffb: yeah i suppose we're good, thanks
Jan 04 01:41:00 <zsoc> kerwood: what's in that folder?
Jan 04 01:41:07 <zonyl> zsoc: I am able to get it to come up with a black screen.  unfortunately it just sits with a black screen.
Jan 04 01:41:09 <rick-home> kerwood, -- I was going to ask that.
Jan 04 01:41:24 <kerwood> let me get my usb cable
Jan 04 01:41:50 <zsoc> zonyl: er, well you need to put in something to quit after that error ;) That's a fatal SDL error. I can get you a piece of code for that, but it won't fix your issue
Jan 04 01:42:58 <zonyl> zsoc: The code I have is enabling double-buffering, so I thought maybe if I set the flag off it would just work with draw flicker.  Instead it just seems to render a black screen.
Jan 04 01:43:15 <zonyl> Ill strace it now
Jan 04 01:43:24 <kesne> Anybody know where the silver key is?
Jan 04 01:43:36 <zsoc> zonyl: have you tried just doing a straight set_vid_mode(SDL_FULLSCREEN | SDL_HWSURFACE) ? Or do you have too many other options?
Jan 04 01:44:44 <kerwood> zsoc, rick-home: http://webos.pastebin.com/m3fa31451
Jan 04 01:44:59 <zonyl> zsoc: The only bit I am setting is screen->flags & SDL_DOUBLEBUF
Jan 04 01:45:21 <zonyl> zsoc: But the code implies that it needs Doublebuffer to work, which is confirming what I am seeing.
Jan 04 01:45:47 <cal_> how can I run doom from the command line? maybe it will spit out an error message that way. still cant figure out why it wont start.. disabled the mytether wifi patch.
Jan 04 01:45:52 <zsoc> zomg: er.. well i'm fairly certain webos-sdl does _not_ support doublebuf
Jan 04 01:46:02 <zsoc> zomg: whoops, not you, zonyl
Jan 04 01:46:10 <dtzWill> zsoc: i didn't think it did either
Jan 04 01:46:14 <zsoc> zonyl: there is no other mention about SDL_HWSURFACE anywhere?
Jan 04 01:46:25 <dtzWill> zsoc: or hwsurface actually lol
Jan 04 01:46:31 <dtzWill> zsoc: mine doesn't support hwsurface iirc
Jan 04 01:46:35 <zonyl> zsoc: I can use HWSURFACE optionally, but that is returning an error as well
Jan 04 01:46:42 <zsoc> dtzWill: er, it has to support hwsurface.
Jan 04 01:46:55 <zsoc> dtzWill: unless it uses it as a wrapper for swsurface?
Jan 04 01:46:59 <rick-home> zsoc kerwood  -- it looks like the stuff is just absolutely not in there.
Jan 04 01:47:12 <dtzWill> zsoc: maybe i misread the error msg, i had a lot  going on--but i thuoght it didn' support hwsurface
Jan 04 01:47:29 <zonyl> dtzWill: Well that is what I am seeing as well
Jan 04 01:47:34 <zsoc> rick-home: yep, just not there
Jan 04 01:47:50 <zsoc> dtzWill: i'm fairly certain i had a small game running that _only_ supported hwsurface, but i'll doublecheck
Jan 04 01:48:19 <zonyl> Darn.  This VNC client only supports DB or HW :(
Jan 04 01:49:08 <zsoc> We have to get to the bottom of this HW stuff
Jan 04 01:49:35 <rick-home> somehwere there's a palm os programmer laughing at us.
Jan 04 01:50:04 <geist> rick-home: to be more specific, pre supports instructions the pixi does not have
Jan 04 01:50:09 <zonyl> Am I missing something here: open("/etc/fb.modes", O_RDONLY)         = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
Jan 04 01:50:11 <rick-home> zsoc, there's more to it than just copying in the ko files from the pre isn't there????
Jan 04 01:50:14 <Abyssul> Palmos or Webos programmer?
Jan 04 01:50:18 <geist> regards to binary compatibility
Jan 04 01:50:32 <zonyl> I hardly know anything about SDL.  Do I need to configure fb.modes?
Jan 04 01:50:36 <tmzt> sdl supports double buffering I'm pretty sure, with SDL_flip()
Jan 04 01:50:50 <rick-home> geist, thanks for the clarification.
Jan 04 01:51:07 <tmzt> but pixi has neon?
Jan 04 01:51:10 <tmzt> or just vfp
Jan 04 01:51:10 <geist> pixi is an arm1176 so it's an armv6k + vfp
Jan 04 01:51:19 <geist> pre is cortex-a8 so it's armv7 + neon
Jan 04 01:51:22 <tmzt> 36 is the one without vfp then?
Jan 04 01:51:29 <tmzt> 76 is with?
Jan 04 01:51:34 <geist> no, there are multiple 1136 variants
Jan 04 01:51:35 <tmzt> geist: heard you wrote an os :)
Jan 04 01:51:40 <geist> 1176 just only comes in vfp form
Jan 04 01:51:50 <geist> 1136j-s 1136jf-s
Jan 04 01:52:13 <zsoc> zonyl: no, i ran into the fb.mode thing too, it's done automatically
Jan 04 01:52:14 <tmzt> which is in msm7x0x?
Jan 04 01:52:16 <geist> tmzt: a few, yes
Jan 04 01:52:27 <geist> tmzt: msm7x0x != pixi
Jan 04 01:52:33 <geist> pixi is an 7x27
Jan 04 01:52:34 <tmzt> I know
Jan 04 01:52:35 <tmzt> it's 7x27
Jan 04 01:52:37 <zsoc> zonyl: strace is a little confusing, "open(" doesn't mean it's accessing it, it means it's writing to it
Jan 04 01:52:41 <tmzt> sorry, just clearing something up
Jan 04 01:52:46 <rick-home> geist,  I assume, that like always, you will tell me that the sdl stuff isn't in the purview of what you work on, and that we will have to go find another kernal programmer to break HIS knees for questions.
Jan 04 01:52:48 <geist> the 7201s are i think just plain 1136j-s
Jan 04 01:52:51 <geist> no fpu
Jan 04 01:53:07 <geist> one of the primary differences in 7x27 is the addition of L2 + vfp
Jan 04 01:53:07 <zonyl> zsoc: Do you have something in /etc/fb.modes?
Jan 04 01:53:20 <tmzt> I haven't even looked at qdsp stuff on Pixi kernel yet
Jan 04 01:53:35 <geist> i can neither confirm nor deny the existence of sdl
Jan 04 01:53:38 <zsoc> zonyl: no no one does, it gets created and removed. the exact thing that is happening is "fbset > /etc/fb.modes". you can do that manually if you want.
Jan 04 01:53:48 <tmzt> zsoc: it should probably have stat'd first
Jan 04 01:53:58 <rick-home> geist, that's ok, we don't NEED you to confirm or deny that.  :-)
Jan 04 01:54:45 <zsoc> tmzt: i'm no strace expert :) maybe it should have
Jan 04 01:55:02 <tmzt> geist: and better gpu, and hopefully better framebuffer overlay capability in mdp
Jan 04 01:55:33 <tmzt> so I'll pull 2.6.24 vanilla and patch, is that right?
Jan 04 01:55:48 <bpadalino> they should be both linked from opensource.palm.com to grab
Jan 04 01:56:05 <bpadalino> i just made some chocolate chip w/ coconut cookies that came out pretty fantastic
Jan 04 01:56:38 <zsoc> zonyl: why not recompile the application using SWSURFACE? There should be no absolute reason you need 1 or the other. unless it's an i/o thing. it's just a matter of where memory is stored
Jan 04 01:56:58 <tmzt> geist: is this ok? ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.24.tar.bz2
Jan 04 01:57:20 <tmzt> destinal: no sdl on pixi yet?
Jan 04 01:57:27 <geist> that is 2.6.24 yes
Jan 04 01:57:33 <geist> thoughi highly recommend pulling it down with git
Jan 04 01:57:37 <rick-home> tmzt  no sdl on the pixi
Jan 04 01:57:39 <geist> then you can apply the patch and hack if you want to
Jan 04 01:57:45 <tmzt> the patch is a git diff?
Jan 04 01:57:54 <tmzt> hmm, so just use the v2.6.24 tag?
Jan 04 01:57:59 <geist> yah
Jan 04 01:58:01 <tmzt> make sense since I have a local copy to reference then
Jan 04 01:58:02 <zsoc> geist: can you find me the palm dev that disabled HWSURFACE in the sdl patch instead of just having HWSURFACE provide a SWSURFACE?
Jan 04 01:58:17 <geist> zsoc: i can neither confirm nor deny the existence of sdl
Jan 04 01:58:18 <tmzt> geist: I prefer to work with 2.6.27 or 2.6.32+ for msm stuff
Jan 04 01:58:25 <geist> tmzt: as do i
Jan 04 01:58:29 <rick-home> I _KNEW_ he was going to say that.
Jan 04 01:58:47 <tmzt> geist: good, hope you guys use alsa/drm if you don't already
Jan 04 01:58:47 <zsoc> geist: What? it's on opensource.palm.com.. your company released it's existence :P
Jan 04 01:58:52 <geist> zsoc: i can neither confirm nor deny the existence of sdl
Jan 04 01:59:00 <zsoc> geist: ok :)
Jan 04 01:59:17 <bpadalino> geist, how was your new years ?
Jan 04 01:59:28 <geist> wasn't terrible
Jan 04 01:59:30 <tmzt> geist: seen this yet? http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/dwalker/linux-msm.git;a=summary
Jan 04 01:59:32 <Abyssul> is geist a palm employee or something?
Jan 04 01:59:36 <tmzt> geist: and the lkml thread
Jan 04 01:59:44 <tmzt> geist: very android specific though
Jan 04 01:59:49 <bpadalino> Abyssul: yeah, he does low level/kernel stuff
Jan 04 01:59:57 <Abyssul> thats cool
Jan 04 02:00:08 <bpadalino> hrm, what makes the newer kernels nicer to work with the MSM stuff ?
Jan 04 02:00:08 <geist> tmzt: is that the android msm branch?
Jan 04 02:00:31 <zonyl> zsoc: Well it doesnt error out now with SDL_SWSURFACE but still the black screen.
Jan 04 02:00:34 <tmzt> geist: that's the new upstream attempt to merge Dream support
Jan 04 02:00:41 <tmzt> but way too android amss specific
Jan 04 02:01:00 <zonyl> zonyl: Strace shows it is waiting in the input loop, but wireshark shows no activity, which is odd.
Jan 04 02:01:04 <geist> sadly that's the only way to deal with msm
Jan 04 02:01:10 <geist> amss is a requirement and it's not going away
Jan 04 02:01:14 <tmzt> I've been trying to get us (#htc-linux) to adopt _ops structs for this amss stuff
Jan 04 02:01:14 <geist> msm is such a disaster
Jan 04 02:01:27 <zsoc> zonyl: now i can't help you :) There are reasons why you would need one over another (for instance, SDL_HWSURFACE's support of DOUBLEBUF), but I don't know the intricacies of these things. I'm played with sdl for about 5 days now.
Jan 04 02:01:28 <rick-home> geist, if I sent you a tenner would you at some hypothetical future time, buy the lead for some hypothetical future palm sdl release a beer?  :-)
Jan 04 02:01:34 <tmzt> right, but it's not amss, it's that the ce devices, the android devices, the Palm devices use a different api
Jan 04 02:01:44 <geist> seriously guys, quit askingme about sdl
Jan 04 02:01:50 <geist> i'm going to have to leave the channel if you keep it up
Jan 04 02:01:56 <rick-home> geist  I'm not asking.
Jan 04 02:01:59 <rick-home> fine
Jan 04 02:02:02 <geist> quit joking then
Jan 04 02:02:03 <rick-home> will do.
Jan 04 02:02:20 <rick-home> saddly, right now, that's pretty much all we're talking about sir.
Jan 04 02:02:25 <geist> kay
Jan 04 02:02:34 <Abyssul> rawr
Jan 04 02:02:35 <dangerskew123> lol
Jan 04 02:02:39 <zsoc> rick-home: lol i think he meant don't talk to _him_ about it, but he has a point
Jan 04 02:02:40 <bpadalino> yowza
Jan 04 02:02:42 <rick-home> might want to ignore us for a few days.
Jan 04 02:02:49 <rick-home> he does.  you're right.
Jan 04 02:02:56 <zsoc> rick-home: i'm curious about who yelled at him ;)
Jan 04 02:02:57 <rick-home> geist, point taken.
Jan 04 02:03:07 <rick-home> zsoc,  no questions.
Jan 04 02:03:07 <Abyssul> rubenstein himself? :p
Jan 04 02:03:13 <dangerskew123> it'll be like that until the ces announcement hopefully
Jan 04 02:03:23 <rick-home> Abyssul  we're going to be polite and go back to work.
Jan 04 02:03:34 <zsoc> rick-home: Oh c'mon. We're not doing anything wrong. but fine.. back to work :P
Jan 04 02:04:13 <rick-home> dangerskew, I understand about lines.   I live with them all the time.
Jan 04 02:04:19 <zsoc> zonyl: have you tried using SDL_FULLSCREEN?
Jan 04 02:05:00 <zonyl> zsoc: Ill think I tried that a while ago, but as long as I have my toolchain working, ill give it a shot again.
Jan 04 02:05:38 <zsoc> zonyl: i just can't see how double buffering is _necessary_ (alberit a nice feature). But again, SDL documentation isn't wonderful imo
Jan 04 02:05:52 <zonyl> FWIW: This is the code I am tinkering with: http://www.ferzkopp.net/joomla/software-mainmenu-14/4-ferzkopps-linux-software/21-sdlvnc
Jan 04 02:06:41 <zsoc> zonyl: what's supposed to happen when you run it? does it connect directly? or does it come up with a setting screen? it could use zennity
Jan 04 02:06:45 <cal_> hmm so doom doesnt run from the icon for me, but if i run it from the command line after doing "export SDL_FBDEV=/dev/fb0" it works (although the screen acts a bit funky with residual images when clicking it)
Jan 04 02:07:16 <bpadalino> cal, on a pre or pixi ?
Jan 04 02:07:20 <cal_> pre
Jan 04 02:07:24 <bpadalino> weird
Jan 04 02:07:45 <cal_> am i supposed to be using fb0 or fb1?
Jan 04 02:08:01 <zonyl> zsoc: It would appear the code goes right to the connetion and renders the vnc buffer right from the get go.  The only thing it is doing besides that is setting the window title.
Jan 04 02:08:56 <zsoc> zonyl: try NOFRAME instead of FULLSCREEN? If you look through the webos-sdl patch it plays with how a lot of standard video variables are utilized
Jan 04 02:10:34 <zonyl> zsoc: Fullscreen just renders the black card just like the rest.  Ill try noframe
Jan 04 02:15:03 <zsoc> zonyl: btw, i just verified i have a program running that only uses set_vid_mode(SDL_FULLSCREEN | SDL_HWSURFACE);
Jan 04 02:15:27 * atlanta is back from his social life
Jan 04 02:16:33 <zonyl> zsoc: Well thats good news.  I am going to re-grab the source from scratch and try this again.
Jan 04 02:16:56 <bpadalino> well .. why not do like what the testmouse.c does ?
Jan 04 02:16:59 <bpadalino> since we know that works too
Jan 04 02:17:06 <bpadalino> init the video ..
Jan 04 02:17:16 <bpadalino> then use SDL_ANYFORMAT ?
Jan 04 02:17:25 <zsoc> bpadalino: oh no very bad
Jan 04 02:17:30 <bpadalino> oh is it ?
Jan 04 02:17:32 <zsoc> there's a reason that's a test file
Jan 04 02:17:39 <bpadalino> oh, ok
Jan 04 02:18:21 <zsoc> Besides, something like SDL_FULLSCREEN | SDL_HWSURFACE might as well _be_ ANYFORMAT, you'll still letting the webos-sdl set things like resolution and palette
Jan 04 02:18:43 <kesne> CRAP
Jan 04 02:18:50 <kesne> I have school tomorrow D:
Jan 04 02:18:51 <zsoc> bpadalino: it's just really confusing to me that I have something working with HWSURFACE, but me and zonyl have run into the same error with separate applications trying to use it also
Jan 04 02:18:59 <zsoc> kesne: lol, i have work tommorow? that sucks too
Jan 04 02:19:18 <kesne> zsoc: Work > School
Jan 04 02:19:33 <kesne> work can actually be a challenge
Jan 04 02:19:45 <zsoc> kesne: not when you do a monkey job
Jan 04 02:19:50 <bpadalino> nah, it's just meetings :)
Jan 04 02:19:51 <kesne> oh...
Jan 04 02:19:56 <kesne> zsoc: what do you do?
Jan 04 02:19:57 <zsoc> bpadalino: i wish i was in meeting all day
Jan 04 02:20:19 <kesne> I wish Keen Studios could be my day job, and not have to go to school
Jan 04 02:20:22 <zsoc> kesne: oh you know, boring stuff
Jan 04 02:20:52 <zonyl> zsoc: No you dont.. ;)  If it wasnt for my Pre, I would commit suicide during some of my all-day meetings
Jan 04 02:21:07 <zsoc> zonyl: lol, i'll take your word for it :)
Jan 04 02:21:23 <bpadalino> kesne: go to school and go through all of college .. it'll be good times
Jan 04 02:21:44 <rick-home> Bored?  Lonely?  Don't want to work? Need free food?  Feel like bothering your co-workers?  Feeling underappriciate?  Have a Meeting!!!!
Jan 04 02:21:46 <kesne> I plan on going to college
Jan 04 02:21:57 <kesne> Rick-home: haha
Jan 04 02:22:06 <rick-home> kesne  I wish it was funny.
Jan 04 02:22:10 <rick-home> meetings suck
Jan 04 02:22:14 <kesne> Hell, my grades are too good not to go to college
Jan 04 02:22:19 <kerwood> rick-home: that's dangerously close to the truth
Jan 04 02:22:19 <bpadalino> i've got a 9a on monday ..
Jan 04 02:22:27 <bpadalino> too early for me
Jan 04 02:22:29 <zonyl> The only graphics class I was taught 20 years ago was Xlib/Motif ;)
Jan 04 02:22:51 <zonyl> This FB/SDL stuff is all greek to me..
Jan 04 02:22:53 <rick-home> you had a graphics class???
Jan 04 02:23:13 <kesne> I wish I had a graphics class... :/
Jan 04 02:23:14 <zonyl> rick-home: Yep.  On the DEC VMS systems
Jan 04 02:23:19 <rick-home> I had fortran IV,  RPG III, and Honeywell Assembler.
Jan 04 02:23:22 <EdLin> zonyl: what school was this? Mine did COBOL, so I didn't bother with computer science.
Jan 04 02:23:37 <rick-home> on Univ of Ks's honeywell mainframe.
Jan 04 02:23:54 <rick-home> average job turnaround was 7 hours from submitting card deck to getting print out.
Jan 04 02:24:05 <zonyl> EdLin: www.msoe.edu
Jan 04 02:24:28 <bpadalino> zsoc: how do you check for SDL errors other than stuff returning null ?
Jan 04 02:24:33 <zsoc> I need to get to the bottom of this, it's driving me nuts
Jan 04 02:24:35 <bpadalino> i see SDL_SetError ..
Jan 04 02:24:43 <zonyl> For many years I wrote computer animation (lightwave) plugins for Sun Ultrasparc systems
Jan 04 02:24:53 <zsoc> bpadalino: SDL_GetError()
Jan 04 02:24:56 <bpadalino> ah
Jan 04 02:24:58 <zsoc> bpadalino: toss that in a print
Jan 04 02:25:01 <bpadalino> do you try that stuff ?
Jan 04 02:25:23 <zsoc> bpadalino: er... i'm not really good at.. uh.. C... really.. very much... ashamed to say
Jan 04 02:25:30 <rick-home> zonyl  for those years I was rwriting accounting software
Jan 04 02:25:34 <bpadalino> oh ..
Jan 04 02:25:38 <zsoc> bpadalino: i've patched/debugged countless things.. but i'm not a "read docs and build from scratch" type guy
Jan 04 02:26:08 <zonyl> rick-home: I got invited to James Cameron's house party in LA one year.  Was a real blast for a while.
Jan 04 02:26:11 <zsoc> bpadalino: But yes, I implemented SDL_GetError(), it gives very very vague errors :P i'm going to start looking into SDL source for error handling
Jan 04 02:26:14 <bpadalino> oh i see .. it returns the string
Jan 04 02:26:28 <bpadalino> what are the errors you're getting ?
Jan 04 02:26:28 <zsoc> bpadalino: I think ther error that tells you that you don't support SDL_HWSURFACE is actually triggered by something else
Jan 04 02:27:00 <zsoc> bpadalino: we had the same error on two applications, "SDL_HWSURFACE and/or SDL_DOUBLEBUF not supported"
Jan 04 02:27:17 <bpadalino> i see where that is in the patch
Jan 04 02:27:22 <bpadalino> line 13132
Jan 04 02:27:46 <zsoc> bpadalino: wait, that's in the palm patch? Crap
Jan 04 02:27:54 <bpadalino> yeah
Jan 04 02:27:56 <zsoc> bpadalino: but that's only when you use hwsurface AND doublebuf, right?
Jan 04 02:27:57 <bpadalino> libsdl-1.2/src/video/fbcon/SDL_fbvideo.c - should be there
Jan 04 02:28:02 <bpadalino> nah .. i think or
Jan 04 02:28:14 <zsoc> bpadalino: but i have this game working with hwsurface.... wtf
Jan 04 02:28:28 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 04 02:28:34 <zsoc> ok, let me double check EVERYTHING
Jan 04 02:28:35 <bpadalino> lets see what is going on in that file
Jan 04 02:28:42 <zsoc> make sure that this game doesn't try a work around
Jan 04 02:30:49 <zsoc> bpadalino: if (flags & (SDL_HWSURFACE | SDL_DOUBLEBUF)) <-- i'm pretty sure that's AND
Jan 04 02:30:54 <zsoc> bpadalino: | != ||
Jan 04 02:31:00 <rgb45> Evening everyone, I know the games and such are a big priority for you all right now. But if anyone has some time to investigate a newly dicovered way of recording audio, I think it may be really interesting.
Jan 04 02:31:09 <bpadalino> | is bitwise or ..
Jan 04 02:31:10 <dannns> hello, I'm having a problem with the webos-internals feed not working in PreWare, ir says feed in the URL, and the manual feed entry field is grayed out
Jan 04 02:31:12 <zonyl> zsoc:  Fullscreen and HW both didnt produce an error! However, the program still sits at a black card.  This might just be a program problem afterall.
Jan 04 02:31:13 <rgb45> http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/199237-app-request-voice-recorder.html#post2126201
Jan 04 02:31:30 <zsoc> dannns: i'm listening
Jan 04 02:31:31 <bpadalino> so you take your current flags, AND them with your mask, which is OR'd together ..
Jan 04 02:31:36 <bpadalino> if anything is left over, it's true ..
Jan 04 02:31:40 <bpadalino> otherwise, those flags weren't set
Jan 04 02:31:51 <zsoc> bpadalino: er... so in english, you're saying to me that that _is_ "or" ?
Jan 04 02:31:51 <rgb45> An audio test application was found that is able to record and playback audio.
Jan 04 02:31:55 <dannns> I've tried removing and reinstalling preware and package manager, but same
Jan 04 02:32:05 <bpadalino> & = bitwise and .. | = bitwise or ..
Jan 04 02:32:15 <PuffTheMagic> all we are gonna hear in here for the next 2 months is SDL huh
Jan 04 02:32:24 <bpadalino> possibly
Jan 04 02:32:33 <PuffTheMagic> zsoc: i still have no doom in preware
Jan 04 02:32:37 <zsoc> dannns: you are using wosqi 2.96?
Jan 04 02:32:40 <PuffTheMagic> yet other feeds get updated just fine
Jan 04 02:33:01 <bpadalino> Puff, i had the same problem after the migration .. then i looked at the feed file ..
Jan 04 02:33:03 <dannns> zsoc: yes I used WOSQI 2.96 for the reinstall
Jan 04 02:33:04 <bpadalino> and it was uninitialized
Jan 04 02:33:08 <bpadalino> so the postinst wasn't run
Jan 04 02:33:12 <bpadalino> once i ran it, everything was fine
Jan 04 02:33:18 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: that doesn't make sense. make sure your webos-internals feed is working. you have emergency patch/migration tools? and make sure you don't have testing feeds on
Jan 04 02:33:37 <dannns> zsoc: I'm trying it again just in case, thanks, I'll report back
Jan 04 02:33:48 <zsoc> dannns: reinstall just the package manager service, and make sure you click 'yes' to your postinst. you'll know it works because you'll get a 'phone offline'
Jan 04 02:34:01 <zsoc> PuffTheMagic: what would you like to hear in here instead of sdl?
Jan 04 02:34:07 <kerwood> dannns: for what it's worth, I got things jumpstarted with Preware Installer, then tore into it with wosqi
Jan 04 02:34:37 <zsoc> bpadalino: i'm sorry, i didn't get your other comment, what was your decision on the patch? It's or?
Jan 04 02:34:51 <bpadalino> zsoc, try setting the SDL_HWSURFACE along with SDL_OPENGLES ?
Jan 04 02:35:39 <zsoc> bpadalino: can't do that if i'm not using SDL_GL_SetAttribute
Jan 04 02:35:50 <zsoc> bpadalino: and since i'm not using opengl/es, i'm not setting any attributes :P
Jan 04 02:36:08 <zsoc> bpadalino: UNLESS, you're saying there's a way to use SDL_OPENGLES as sort of a wrapper just to get away with HWSURFACE working
Jan 04 02:36:42 <bpadalino> i am a little confused by the patch they have .. let me read into it some more
Jan 04 02:36:51 <zsoc> bpadalino: it's only about 16,000 lines? Right? :)
Jan 04 02:37:22 <zsoc> bpadalino: thank you :) maybe we should start a wiki page with just some unorganized notes about the patch so far? something new devs can look at just to figure out what is different in webos-sdl
Jan 04 02:37:33 <bpadalino> go for it
Jan 04 02:37:37 <zsoc> I can't wait in a couple of months I think we'll be having these convos in #webos ;)
Jan 04 02:37:52 <zsoc> although it'll probably be in js api context :P
Jan 04 02:38:22 <zsoc> I wonder if palm will patch webGL to support sdl hooks.. or just have it be mojo
Jan 04 02:39:51 <zonyl> zsoc: It connects!
Jan 04 02:39:57 <bio-> my phone is a preware virgin. it's not possible to install preware with the new update right now?
Jan 04 02:40:02 <zsoc> bpadalino: Ok. right this very second I am running a small game which _only_ supports HWSURFACE.
Jan 04 02:40:12 <zonyl> zsoc: What is the screen depth of the pre? 24bit?
Jan 04 02:40:12 <bpadalino> interesting
Jan 04 02:40:14 <zsoc> zonyl: !!!! nice! Is it working? Like do you see things?
Jan 04 02:40:17 <zsoc> zonyl: 32
Jan 04 02:40:35 <zsoc> Hey guys, I think zonyl just got an SDL VNC client working :>
Jan 04 02:40:48 <dangerskew123> awesome!
Jan 04 02:40:57 <zsoc> bpadalino: i can link you the code if you want to build it, or send you the binary
Jan 04 02:41:00 <zonyl> zsoc: Just a black screen yet
Jan 04 02:41:03 <dannns> zsoc: kerwood: Uninstalling and reinstalling preware and ipkgservice from wosqi worked, thanks! Now I can try Quake :D
Jan 04 02:41:08 <zsoc> zonyl: oh, ok then, you'll get there ;)
Jan 04 02:41:11 <bpadalino> nah, i believe you
Jan 04 02:41:20 <zonyl> zsoc: But I got it actually connecting to the server
Jan 04 02:41:28 <zonyl> I believe the depth is wrong
Jan 04 02:41:35 <zsoc> zonyl: i jumped the gun lol
Jan 04 02:41:37 <zonyl> cause I thought it was 24bpp ;)
Jan 04 02:41:40 <zsoc> zonyl: yeah, 32 is what you want :)
Jan 04 02:41:58 <zsoc> zonyl: Just for future reference, webos-sdl automatically scales for resolution, but NOT for bitrate
Jan 04 02:42:06 <zsoc> lets put that in the wiki lol
Jan 04 02:42:41 <zonyl> zsoc: It scales the surface res?  Thats cool.
Jan 04 02:42:43 <bpadalino> yeah, 8888 .. that's the way it work
Jan 04 02:42:43 <bpadalino> s
Jan 04 02:42:46 <MarkhamDev> I found a hash code that enables Number Masking in the 1.3.5 code
Jan 04 02:43:04 <zsoc> zonyl: i suppose :) it's pretty common for embedded sdl stuff. but you don't want it to, scaling eats resources
Jan 04 02:43:12 <Decimation> MarkhamDev: elaborate :O
Jan 04 02:43:16 <MarkhamDev> but I don't exactly know what number making is.
Jan 04 02:43:25 <zsoc> bpadalino: 8888 what?
Jan 04 02:43:26 <MarkhamDev> ##7436581# pops up a dialog that says 'Toggle Number Masking'
Jan 04 02:43:30 <bpadalino> RGBA
Jan 04 02:43:30 <zsoc> bpadalino: oh, the scaling, yes
Jan 04 02:43:31 <bpadalino> 32-bits
Jan 04 02:43:43 <zsoc> bpadalino: we need to reference all this stuff, with patch line numbers
Jan 04 02:44:00 <zonyl> zsoc: Are you crashing luna a lot when playing with SDL?  I have luna go down about once every 5 launches of my test client.
Jan 04 02:44:01 <zsoc> Who around here feels like they aren't contributing? :)
Jan 04 02:44:09 <zsoc> zonyl: yep
Jan 04 02:44:17 <zsoc> zonyl: i have an idea for that tho
Jan 04 02:44:52 <zsoc> zonyl: i think luna is restarting itself, not so much crashing, based on memory allocation. there's some leeway to play around with that... and as Destinal pointed out, you can assign memory values if you launch from an actual app natively
Jan 04 02:45:32 <rgb45> zsoc: I enjoy all of you guys tearing webOS to shreds... or at least building it up frantically. :)
Jan 04 02:46:14 <zsoc> rgb45: this is fun as hell, i hated this type of stuff before i started playing with webos. I think I just like embedded stuff
Jan 04 02:46:49 <Decimation> MarkhamDev: yeah, idk howto use it :/
Jan 04 02:47:26 <rgb45> you think Palm enjoys seeing you all discover this stuff or does it ruin their fun at CES? ;)
Jan 04 02:47:31 <MarkhamDev> so nobody knows what Number Masking is?
Jan 04 02:47:32 <zonyl> zsoc: Interesting. Ill have to check that in a bit.  I think video is working now and wireshark showed me it is stalling on vnc authentication.  Im going to have to dive into the actually program logic / vnc protocol now.
Jan 04 02:48:29 <zonyl> rgb45: I have mixed feelings about the blogs raining the parade on the CES introduction.  I want whatever is best for my Stock!
Jan 04 02:48:38 <MarkhamDev> BTW, I just updated http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Pre_Specific_Hash_Codes to reflect the new hash codes added with 1.3.5
Jan 04 02:48:51 <zsoc> MarkhamDev: good work
Jan 04 02:48:56 <dtzWill> oh wow building opengles isn'y bad at all
Jan 04 02:48:56 <rgb45> zonyl: amen to that
Jan 04 02:49:05 <bpadalino> it isn't! it's fun even
Jan 04 02:49:18 <dtzWill> for some reason i expected it to be a nightmare--thanks to whoever put together the trippy triangle hehe
Jan 04 02:49:23 <zsoc> zonyl: if you get this working, we would _love_ to distribute it with Preware (assuming it's GPL?)
Jan 04 02:49:43 <zonyl> The original is LGPL
Jan 04 02:49:57 <zsoc> zonyl: then i guess it's up to you :)
Jan 04 02:50:04 <zonyl> I am a GPL fanboi though ;)
Jan 04 02:50:18 <zsoc> dtzWill: no, it's quite ok actually :)
Jan 04 02:50:28 <zsoc> zonyl: you'll fit in here, lol
Jan 04 02:50:35 <bpadalino> dtzwill, now you just need to start hacking away at it and get more demos working
Jan 04 02:50:45 <dtzWill> bpadalino: i think i might
Jan 04 02:50:49 <zsoc> zonyl: and from source to preware feeds is one very small step. rwhitby ;)
Jan 04 02:51:02 <bpadalino> dtzwill, there is a decent book on opengles 2.0 stuff ..
Jan 04 02:51:23 <bpadalino> i think this book: http://www.amazon.com/OpenGL-ES-2-0-Programming-Guide/dp/0321502795
Jan 04 02:51:26 <zsoc> dtzWill: if you decide to port hexen, there's an issue with cdrom and music. it's probably not worth the trouble
Jan 04 02:51:51 <zonyl> I am really glad Mr. Whitby is a part of the community now.  Too bad freesmartphoneos seems to have stalled on the Pre though
Jan 04 02:51:58 <dtzWill> zsoc: aww
Jan 04 02:52:46 <MarkhamDev> Does anybody know what toggling 'Experimental Mode' does?
Jan 04 02:53:07 <zsoc> dtzWill: it's doable, you just have to rip all the references to music out of everything. i got about halfway there and decided to debug this hwsurface thingy
Jan 04 02:53:15 <zsoc> dtzWill: btw, i've confirmed SDL_HWSURFACE works
Jan 04 02:53:24 <bpadalino> zsoc, why has freesmartphoneos stalled on the pre ?
Jan 04 02:53:54 <zsoc> bpadalino: what is freesmartphoneos?
Jan 04 02:54:10 <dtzWill> zsoc: gotcha. i checked it while using sdlquake and sdl reported it didn't like hwsurface--probably some other flag, or combination, that was failing
Jan 04 02:54:13 <zonyl> bpadalino: Their 30day challenge has come and gone a while ago.  Little activity in their wiki regarding the pre.
Jan 04 02:54:16 <dtzWill> zsoc: sorry for spreading misinformation :)
Jan 04 02:54:27 <Cynthia> Hello, anyone here able to help - WebOS Quick Install is not seeing my pre - any suggestions?
Jan 04 02:54:38 <zsoc> dtzWill: well now i'm hoping i'm not spreading it. it hwsurface seems to only fail when you also ask for doublebuf
Jan 04 02:54:50 <zsoc> Cynthia: devmode on?
Jan 04 02:55:01 <zonyl> http://www.freesmartphone.org
Jan 04 02:55:04 <dtzWill> zsoc: oh i think i was
Jan 04 02:55:46 <Cynthia> +zsoc: yes :) i had this working a few weeks ago. got a new computer for christmas lol now i cant get it to work again
Jan 04 02:55:49 <zsoc> dtzWill: how are you getting quake to work now? swsurface?
Jan 04 02:56:00 <dtzWill> zsoc: yeah
Jan 04 02:56:04 <zonyl> zsoc: Actually, Im doing doublebuf now as well.   It likes FULLSCREEN HWSURFACE and DOUBLEBUF now
Jan 04 02:56:06 <bpadalino> oh whoops ..
Jan 04 02:56:07 <bpadalino> i am sorry
Jan 04 02:56:11 <bpadalino> zonyl it was meant for
Jan 04 02:56:14 <zsoc> zonyl: no that's quite impossible.
Jan 04 02:56:22 <zsoc> bpadalino: i figured it out :)
Jan 04 02:56:53 <zsoc> zonyl: and if indeed you _are_ doing that now, please pastebin me the exact source code relating to the video surface
Jan 04 02:57:06 <zonyl> zonyl: Hmm.. Pretty sure I have all options selected.
Jan 04 02:57:41 <MarkhamDev> Does anybody know what toggling 'Experimental Mode' does?
Jan 04 02:57:46 <zsoc> zonyl: yeah, that's the issue i was having with 1 application. setting flags didn't seem to actually uh... handle the same way, or as expected
Jan 04 02:57:51 <zsoc> MarkhamDev: on what?
Jan 04 02:58:04 <zsoc> Cynthia: are you using wosqi 2.96?
Jan 04 02:58:09 <rgb45> Excuse my ignorance, but is the so called "hardware-acceleration" actually enabled thanks to 1.3.5 even though there is basically no information to go on for anyone to develop but some brilliant minds like yourselves?
Jan 04 02:58:25 <MarkhamDev> in the phone app if you type ##6346843277# you get a "Experimental mode enabled" dialog
Jan 04 02:58:42 <zsoc> rgb45: pretty much. although most of us aren't too brilliant. palm has done the brilliant work
Jan 04 02:58:59 <zsoc> MarkhamDev: dunno? grep around for it in patches?
Jan 04 02:59:42 <zsoc> MarkhamDev: i'm guessing it does something experimental. you could try it if you're brave.
Jan 04 02:59:56 <Cynthia> +zsoc no, i am trying to do WebOS QuickInstall this site im following http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/199090-preware.html
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