**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 08 02:59:57 2010 Jan 08 03:00:00 or so says some stuffs i read Jan 08 03:00:05 wondering if I can just walk out of work. it's my last day, surely they won't care Jan 08 03:00:11 no STO Jan 08 03:00:15 sadness Jan 08 03:00:29 heh. lastplaytest was wednesday Jan 08 03:00:40 yeah, not closed beta, open beta Jan 08 03:00:43 for preordering it Jan 08 03:00:49 ahhhh Jan 08 03:01:03 i'm gonna get it myself definitely Jan 08 03:01:08 probably just to stress test Jan 08 03:01:18 dunno what my net is gonna be like at school of sigs though Jan 08 03:01:37 If you have a pixi and have root access to it and would like to help me research something please private message me Jan 08 03:01:43 sigh. lunch break over Jan 08 03:02:01 thank god for wirc? Jan 08 03:02:14 what is the directory in which app catalog apps are stored now...just curious. Jan 08 03:02:37 Decimate: /google/it/ Jan 08 03:02:52 :) Jan 08 03:03:50 /media/cryptofs/apps .. right ? Jan 08 03:04:06 google would know Jan 08 03:04:22 scroogle ftw Jan 08 03:04:26 oil: wirc rulz. hard to chat while getting bugged by customers though Jan 08 03:04:27 google didnt answer me :( Jan 08 03:05:08 thats when you ignore customers Jan 08 03:05:58 * freakout-Pre usually does that anyway xD Jan 08 03:06:07 does pre have a fpu? Jan 08 03:07:21 yes Jan 08 03:07:24 vector even Jan 08 03:07:29 NEON Jan 08 03:07:46 oil: what's your game? and congrats Jan 08 03:08:26 lulztypo Jan 08 03:09:54 so, "make stage" isn't working for me either Jan 08 03:10:32 yeah, i think it's busted Jan 08 03:10:48 but it's not sb2 .. it's lack of libraries Jan 08 03:11:42 yeah, ordering problems Jan 08 03:11:58 you need to go into the dependencies and make stage them, then make stage the ones that depend on them Jan 08 03:12:10 dtzWill: "Blocked" Jan 08 03:12:32 i've also got "Dot Game" in there for free Jan 08 03:13:19 i am a little curious if vzw will spend a lot of money on pre commercials like they did with droid Jan 08 03:13:24 or just let it happen Jan 08 03:13:31 let it happen Jan 08 03:13:37 lol Jan 08 03:14:25 oil: yeah, apple better up their advertising so the defacto pre wave doesn't wash them away ;-) Jan 08 03:15:52 bpadalino, egaudet: perhaps we should move the libav* and sdl-mixer stuff to non-working for the moment? Jan 08 03:16:35 is this error benign: arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc: couldn't run '/home/packages/palm/cross-compile/toolchain/arm-2007q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc--specs=/usr/share/scratchbox2/modeconf/gcc-specs.simple': No such file or directory Jan 08 03:16:40 oil: oh, hey i've played that. overdue i'm sure, but congrats and gj :D Jan 08 03:16:40 in the config.log Jan 08 03:17:11 . Jan 08 03:17:18 that file exists (/usr/share/scratchbox2/modeconf/gcc-specs.simple) maybe it's a mapping issue Jan 08 03:17:43 jacques: looks like a space missing there Jan 08 03:17:47 quick question: I'm about to doctor my phone. If I copy the apps folder to my desktop and then replace it after I doctor will all my apps still work? Jan 08 03:18:20 jacques: but I think it's benign Jan 08 03:18:27 hckyplayer024: no because your registry will be corrupt, you need to use regedit Jan 08 03:19:04 rwhitby, OK I see what you mean about the missing space. it's in the config.log that way Jan 08 03:19:08 registry? I have a mac Jan 08 03:19:17 hckyplayer024: i'm sorry, i was making a jest Jan 08 03:19:32 i see didnt get it Jan 08 03:21:02 so it will work i guess Jan 08 03:21:58 so this hot app incentive thing, I wonder if it's restricted to paid apps or are free apps applicable Jan 08 03:22:17 so, I see a 1.3.5.1 update available Jan 08 03:22:23 do I need to write down all my patches Jan 08 03:22:27 Kyusaku: i'm pretty sure they explicitly mentioned a separate pool for free apps Jan 08 03:22:32 and run the patch removal Jan 08 03:22:34 D; Jan 08 03:22:38 Lumiere: 1351 does not affect anything in the patch world Jan 08 03:22:44 yay! Jan 08 03:22:48 Lumiere: er, except maybe something calender related Jan 08 03:23:05 egaudet: I've moved libav* and sdl-mixer over to non-working Jan 08 03:23:13 jacques: does it build with the latest update? Jan 08 03:23:45 I can now "make clobber ; make ; cd packages/scummvm ; make build" with no problems. Jan 08 03:24:56 not exactly a lucky day with computers Jan 08 03:25:04 ? Jan 08 03:25:25 rwhitby, update from when? I checked out about 15 minutes ago I guess Jan 08 03:25:35 2 mins ago Jan 08 03:25:35 my desktop's hard drive is making lovely grindy clicky noises occasionally and -- probably no coincidence, will not boot an operating system Jan 08 03:25:56 ZOMG I MADE A TRIANGLE Jan 08 03:26:00 why is it red.... Jan 08 03:26:15 zsoc: because you omitted the proper blood sacrifices Jan 08 03:26:20 rwhitby, heh I will check Jan 08 03:26:22 destinal: crap.. let me get my cat Jan 08 03:26:29 zsoc, because of your shader Jan 08 03:26:33 look at the shader code and the matrix Jan 08 03:26:42 that sucks, there was a dragon age savegame on there that's not backed up Jan 08 03:26:44 RGBA for each of those values Jan 08 03:26:50 just about everything else is religiously backed Jan 08 03:26:53 play with them and see what it does Jan 08 03:26:54 bpadalino: should i update my pastebin or do you already know why? Lol Jan 08 03:26:55 oh ok Jan 08 03:27:00 er, which matrix? Jan 08 03:27:01 oh, trust me - i know why Jan 08 03:27:09 the shader matrix that does something Jan 08 03:27:13 the other one doesn't do much Jan 08 03:27:20 zsoc: what is the matrix? Jan 08 03:27:55 zsoc, update the pastebin Jan 08 03:27:57 so we can all learn Jan 08 03:28:11 sdldoom now builds in cross-compile too Jan 08 03:28:22 rwhitby: very nice Jan 08 03:28:24 cd packages/sdldoom ; make build Jan 08 03:28:35 i am running it now .. the make stage Jan 08 03:28:43 looks like it finished successfully Jan 08 03:28:45 bpadalino: the one with the precision qualifier? Jan 08 03:28:55 zsoc, paste online .. i forget now Jan 08 03:29:10 still building Jan 08 03:29:21 bpadalino: http://webos.pastebin.com/m33917701 Jan 08 03:29:28 the only problem was that I pushed the sdl-mixer stuff through for egaudet's use without testing it enough from scratch (all my dependencies were already staged, so it worked fine for me) Jan 08 03:29:48 hm... no i will use my KNOWLEDGE! precision qualifiers are used in... inputs to the fragment shaders Jan 08 03:30:19 oh god reading the GLES book, all the pipeline stuff is kind of going over my head Jan 08 03:30:22 gl_FragColor = vec4( 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0 ) ; Jan 08 03:30:30 read that as ... Jan 08 03:30:39 gl_FragColor = vec4( R, G, B, A ) ; Jan 08 03:30:48 bpadalino: i believe one matrix is the input to the fragment shader and the other is the input to the vertex shader Jan 08 03:30:55 bpadalino: ah, thank you Jan 08 03:31:04 note, 0 for G and 0 for B .. Jan 08 03:31:06 bpadalino, 1.0 on A is fully opaque? Jan 08 03:31:14 yeah Jan 08 03:31:30 zsoc, NOW .. if you want ... Jan 08 03:31:38 whats the max Shader Model the shaders be? Jan 08 03:31:40 ah, it's RGBA, that's interesting. Jan 08 03:31:41 make R, G, B, A sine functions of different variables .. Jan 08 03:31:55 bpadalino: is that how you made things full of doom? :P Jan 08 03:31:55 and increment them with different values inside the main loop Jan 08 03:32:01 i ripped off doom Jan 08 03:32:03 on the pre that is. Jan 08 03:32:04 but look at that for an example Jan 08 03:32:06 nice :) Jan 08 03:32:12 and how to link local variables Jan 08 03:32:17 to variable inside your shader programs Jan 08 03:32:24 good to know Jan 08 03:32:25 you can make a nice glowing triangle Jan 08 03:32:40 bpadalino: _understanding_ how programmable shader pipelines work, make me LOVE this triangle Jan 08 03:32:55 rwhitby, staged Jan 08 03:32:58 i'll let you two be alone for a little bit :) Jan 08 03:33:22 bpadalino: that particular code, btw, causes a huge delay in the triangle being drawn (like 3-4 seconds after the card launches), any ideas? Jan 08 03:33:39 bpadalino: oh no it doesn't, nevermind Jan 08 03:33:39 which code? Jan 08 03:33:42 oh, ok Jan 08 03:33:46 i had something else going on when i launched it the first time, heh Jan 08 03:33:56 ah Jan 08 03:34:20 bpadalino: so what is the limitation of FragColor arguments? I suppose i could look it up Jan 08 03:34:26 I wonder if you could get some SSAO on the pre hmm obviously a simple demo is all that could be created and I'm sure it would be laggy but if you downsample the render targets it might work on the pre. Jan 08 03:34:30 can i use.. an array for instance? Jan 08 03:34:37 zsoc, no idea - i am not an opengles master .. Jan 08 03:34:40 consult that book Jan 08 03:34:50 or other tutorials about GLSL Jan 08 03:34:53 kk Jan 08 03:34:54 which is what you're writing Jan 08 03:34:55 My Pre seems to be dead... it's stuck at the start up.... Jan 08 03:34:56 wtf Jan 08 03:35:01 bpadalino: yes i saw :D Jan 08 03:35:08 I need a i5 or i7 laptop Jan 08 03:36:16 rwhitby, did you forget to add packages/sdldoom ? Jan 08 03:37:03 zsoc you cant use an array for fragcolor atleast I dont think so. I'm not sure though as I mainly use HLSL(directX shader langauge) not GLSL(open gl shader language). Jan 08 03:37:11 jacques: pull again Jan 08 03:37:20 Has anyone else noticed that the a in palm is a D turned backwards? Jan 08 03:37:32 rwhitby, got it thanks Jan 08 03:38:10 so http://bit.lt/webos-internals-sdk is now repeatable for everyone? Jan 08 03:38:20 http://bit.ly/webos-internals-sdk Jan 08 03:38:43 i see a little hand drawn fish Jan 08 03:38:57 Whats up guys Jan 08 03:39:10 bpadalino, me too Jan 08 03:39:19 the hand drawn fish works for me Jan 08 03:39:26 yeah I have one too Jan 08 03:39:33 hehe Jan 08 03:39:38 looks like it is repeatable Jan 08 03:39:38 :) Jan 08 03:39:49 where's the hand drawn fish in the repo? Jan 08 03:40:03 http://bit.ly/static/images/puffer_drawing.png Jan 08 03:40:32 sdldoom built Jan 08 03:40:40 rwhitby: did you mean >> P << dk Jan 08 03:40:42 * rwhitby has missed some context Jan 08 03:40:53 http://bit.ly/webos-internals-pdk Jan 08 03:41:00 ah, yes, pdk Jan 08 03:41:06 rwhitby: the sdk link is a bad link and bit.ly gives you a fish Jan 08 03:41:37 " Uh oh, bit.ly couldn't find a link for the bit.ly URL you clicked. Maybe one of the pufferfish ate it, or maybe there are some extra characters on the end of the URL. " Jan 08 03:41:45 :) Jan 08 03:41:48 not any more ;-) Jan 08 03:42:18 (refresh that page) Jan 08 03:42:34 heh, this cmd cannoe easily be done with sudo: echo "vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096" > /etc/sysctl.d/mmap_min_addr.conf Jan 08 03:42:46 fyi, I chatted a bit with Dion and Ben about what they think of the internals group "stealing" their thunder with the annoucement today. Jan 08 03:42:47 the sudo provs end at the > Jan 08 03:42:51 privs Jan 08 03:43:02 rbredow_: I chatted with Chuq too Jan 08 03:43:06 rbredow_: what did they say? Jan 08 03:43:14 they thought it was really cool. Jan 08 03:43:26 they said they like it and the devs really like it. Jan 08 03:43:39 rbredow_: I characterise it as "a little appetizer before the main course" Jan 08 03:43:40 bpadalino: also, playing with the verticies is fun (shape wise), although i can't grasp exactly how it works Jan 08 03:43:40 who here is working on DOSBox? Jan 08 03:43:41 probably there were people running around palm with DOOM / quake Jan 08 03:43:48 both of them want the platform to be as open as possible. Jan 08 03:43:58 synackfin1: I was before my PC died :) Jan 08 03:44:02 zsoc, i am sure with some tinkering you can figure it out .. Jan 08 03:44:04 destinal: I know from a contact in Palm that the guys who wrote libSDL love our stuff. Jan 08 03:44:10 and than you can rotate your shapes around Jan 08 03:44:12 lol i am sure as well Jan 08 03:44:13 I saw an online post by kayahr regarding "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'char*' .. Segmentation fault" by kayahr Jan 08 03:44:14 oh fun Jan 08 03:44:23 synackfin1: oh? Jan 08 03:44:24 bpadalino: i feel like i'm in kindergarten Jan 08 03:44:29 I LIEK SHAPS Jan 08 03:44:30 synackfin1: that's the error I was getting Jan 08 03:44:39 a glowing/rotating shape would be a nice little webos-internals 3d demo Jan 08 03:44:48 throw in some pinch zooming .. Jan 08 03:44:49 bpadalino: yes, it's making it 3d first ;) Jan 08 03:44:49 destinal: yep, he/she is getting the same error. That's a C++ uncaught exception message Jan 08 03:45:02 bpadalino: pinch zooming i think is more a function of sdl, at least input wise Jan 08 03:45:03 destinal: DOSBox is written in C, but it's apparently using some library that has a c++ implementation Jan 08 03:45:09 and some rotations based on finger flicking .. Jan 08 03:45:15 glViewPort, no? Jan 08 03:45:21 destinal: anyways, a good thing to do would be to catch the exception and print it out. Jan 08 03:45:25 and you have yourself a solid palm developer network example Jan 08 03:45:33 bpadalino: i have a rotating cube, fwiw? no lighting but that shouldn't be too terrible Jan 08 03:45:34 bpadalino: lol.. give me... 4 days... ;) Jan 08 03:45:37 synackfin1: well being c++ should make it easier to narrow down, yeah Jan 08 03:45:38 although working on gles v1 now Jan 08 03:45:42 anyone got that million $ app yet? Jan 08 03:45:42 zsoc, i give you 4 days Jan 08 03:45:45 dtzWill: stop always having to be better than me Jan 08 03:45:50 zsoc: :( Jan 08 03:46:04 dtzWill: mr. "oh i made quake, and now it has a touch joystick. i don't know sdl i just do things anyway" Jan 08 03:46:09 destinal: one easy way is to enable coredumps (`ulimit -c unlimited` in linux) and view the stacktrace Jan 08 03:46:35 yup, gdb is our friend :) Jan 08 03:46:52 anyone heard from rick ? Jan 08 03:46:55 zsoc: sorry :( Jan 08 03:46:55 zsoc: http://www.swiftless.com/tutorials/opengl/rotation.html Jan 08 03:47:04 dtzWill: lol i'm joking around man :) you do good work Jan 08 03:47:15 destinal: to get the exact error message, you'd need to rename the DOSBox main function to foobar_main, then create a main_stub.cpp that has extern "C" { int foobar_main(int, char**); } int main(int argc, char** argv) { try { return foobar_main(argc, argv); } catch(char* msg) { cout << msg << endl; return 11; } Jan 08 03:47:34 aha Jan 08 03:47:35 clever Jan 08 03:48:06 I will give it a try once I get my build environment running on this spare laptop Jan 08 03:48:11 destinal: now you'll have a C++ main function that catch the exception and report it :D Jan 08 03:48:21 alas poor desktop, its hdd is toast Jan 08 03:48:38 destinal: I'm curious, though, what library DOSBox uses that's implemented in C++ Jan 08 03:48:46 I need a faster laptop with a bigger hard drive Jan 08 03:49:21 rwhitby: tell codesourcery to get more bandwidth per download Jan 08 03:49:36 destinal: did you have to disable the CDROM support check, and change the 320x200 -> 640x400 scaler? Jan 08 03:50:06 synackfin1: I disabled CDROM init in SDL and forced fullscreen mode Jan 08 03:50:09 destinal: heh yeah those things took forever to grab Jan 08 03:50:11 not sure if the latter was needed Jan 08 03:50:25 destinal: afaict SDL_FULLSCREEN does nothing in the apps i've tried it for Jan 08 03:50:41 tried both ways, fails both ways Jan 08 03:50:52 destinal: I see, kayahr apparently rather than choosing fullscreen mode disabled the default scaler of 2x Jan 08 03:50:59 synackfin1: I made the same patch to my dosbox on my desktop and it didn't break anything Jan 08 03:51:00 oh look at that .. libEGL.so is there Jan 08 03:51:02 i didn't realize Jan 08 03:51:05 destinal: http://forums.precentral.net/webos-internals/222996-dosbox.html Jan 08 03:51:15 so I know that it's something else on the device Jan 08 03:51:19 destinal: I'm sure it's intentional, so you buy a supported distro from them. Jan 08 03:52:11 I'm still drooling over the chance to play Civilization I, Master of Orion, and Might & Magic World of Xeen on DOSBox Jan 08 03:52:40 Kings Quest V as well, I guess, since it's not yet supported by ScummVM Jan 08 03:53:13 I'll give it a try soon ... curse this slow download Jan 08 03:53:53 didn't notice any good mirrors either Jan 08 03:54:11 destinal: what are you downloading, scratchbox? Jan 08 03:54:26 synackfin1: codesourcery toolchain Jan 08 03:54:40 I don't usually have it on my laptop Jan 08 03:54:50 updating to 1.3.5.1 Jan 08 03:55:45 it's a good idea on removing that scaler Jan 08 03:56:09 my switch to fullscreen fixed it for me, but maybe it causes dosbox to turn it off or just scale properly Jan 08 03:57:01 OK GLES 1.1 doesn't work Jan 08 03:57:02 that's it Jan 08 03:57:28 egaudet: haha Jan 08 03:57:55 all these new apps like NFS are magical 1.1+ superapps or something Jan 08 03:58:18 I took the simplest example I could find and once again I find myself with color junk lines Jan 08 03:58:38 man what is up with that Jan 08 03:58:42 egaudet: wait for 1.4 Jan 08 03:58:48 there may be something special needed. wonder if the powervr sdk will be useful Jan 08 03:58:54 update done Jan 08 03:58:56 you mean wait for march Jan 08 03:59:05 There -has- to be something useful Jan 08 03:59:16 ali1: I thought 1.4 was Feb? Jan 08 03:59:17 ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo wee! what's up with that? what's up with that. oooooooooooooooooooooooooo eeee! what's up with that, what's up with that? I say whats uhhhhhhpppppp huhuuh uh uhuh ppp with tha tha that hat hth tha thtaaaaaaaaat! yow! Jan 08 03:59:20 and apparently GLES 2.0 doesn't need this -special- thing because that is working Jan 08 03:59:37 useful = special Jan 08 03:59:41 synackfin1: march is when they're releasing the "PDK" Jan 08 03:59:48 sup? Jan 08 04:00:17 egaudet: well it's gles_cm vs glesv2 Jan 08 04:00:24 zsoc: wut Jan 08 04:00:35 egaudet: it could be the libs fault, we can see if gles_cm is "standard" in the patch maybe Jan 08 04:00:39 http://webos.pastebin.com/me6625d9 Jan 08 04:00:51 what patch? Jan 08 04:01:31 egaudet: gles_cm is included in the webos-sdl patch i believe Jan 08 04:01:33 that pastebin is my proof that it doesn't just work and there's gotta be more to it. And of course we can still end up with just knowing nothing. Jan 08 04:01:40 zsoc, whaaat Jan 08 04:02:13 egaudet: er, nevermind, apparently not Jan 08 04:02:21 just the stuff in sdl_gles Jan 08 04:03:48 +#ifdef PALM // Palm's implementation of GL is only partial and it goes through GL-ES Jan 08 04:04:17 "gl-es" is a very vague term Jan 08 04:04:17 why hasn't anyone made a real VNC app Jan 08 04:04:24 are the games released today linking SDL dynamically ? Jan 08 04:04:28 entity-: someone was working on it Jan 08 04:04:37 i think so Jan 08 04:04:50 nice Jan 08 04:05:16 jacques: yes they are Jan 08 04:05:30 jacques: so we should be able to do everything they are :( Jan 08 04:05:43 get a life... who makes these fart apps Jan 08 04:05:54 i'm tempted to just run ltrace on one of those games Jan 08 04:05:56 entity-: there's an old SDL port of VNC Jan 08 04:06:12 I guess one could check out how it was ported and do the same with a new one Jan 08 04:06:35 I just thought of something Jan 08 04:06:50 Does anyone know if SDL supports alpha surface modes? Jan 08 04:07:25 give it a shot Jan 08 04:07:28 You guys try the teen repellant out? Jan 08 04:07:48 zsoc: like setAlpha, etc? it seems to, although i was having difficulty getting it to do what i wanted, i probably was just doing it wrong Jan 08 04:07:50 holy crap it does Jan 08 04:08:04 zsoc: but setAlpha, then blitting, etc, works fine Jan 08 04:09:01 dtzWill: er, i was referring to the surface itself Jan 08 04:09:14 i mean EGL would be the thing _really_ supporting it Jan 08 04:09:37 but that would allow us to create applications in shapes other than "card" Jan 08 04:09:54 zsoc, apparently there is a libEGL there .. Jan 08 04:10:11 bpadalino: er, well i know sdl uses egl :P i just mean i'm not sure if this implementation of egl supports it Jan 08 04:10:24 not sure if you'd get a card view if you just bypassed SDL and used egl Jan 08 04:10:57 bpadalino: you know me and will were talking about this, none of us have tried Jan 08 04:11:00 but we all talked about it lol Jan 08 04:11:08 less jaw, more paw Jan 08 04:11:14 technically we'd be doing the same thing sdl is already doing, it _should_ work Jan 08 04:11:40 try the original triangle demo, no mods .. Jan 08 04:11:42 although i'm unsure of the advantage at that point Jan 08 04:12:00 notes, curl is a prerequisite Jan 08 04:12:04 rwhitby: ^ Jan 08 04:12:41 yeah, I can change that to wget Jan 08 04:14:54 it's odd double buffering is supported through opengl but not sdl Jan 08 04:15:07 probably a bug they never bothered with Jan 08 04:15:47 Did anyone elses App Catalog icon "move" to the first page of their launcher? Jan 08 04:15:49 i don't recall moving it Jan 08 04:16:33 hey what are the libs one of the apps require? Jan 08 04:17:01 huh? Jan 08 04:17:12 rwhitby: reconfirmed the webos-internals PDK steps on my ubuntu 9.10 laptop Jan 08 04:17:21 all is well, doom builds easy as pie Jan 08 04:17:41 zsoc, mine is still on page 2 Jan 08 04:17:45 i love people who didn't see CES and reviewed the game, they are like "uh, how can my pre do this?" Jan 08 04:17:54 lol Jan 08 04:17:57 jacques: ok ty Jan 08 04:18:18 zsoc: the SDL games? Jan 08 04:19:02 yeah we've spent so long with iphone envy for games, it'll take some getting used to :) Jan 08 04:19:21 just checked in a tabbed nav bar patch for the app launcher, if anyone wants to poke at it: http://gitorious.org/webos-internals/modifications/blobs/raw/webos-1.3.5/app-launcher/app-launcher-page-selector.patch Jan 08 04:21:02 Also, apparently oregon trail crashes every 5 seconds Jan 08 04:21:27 dbsooner: ping Jan 08 04:22:20 anyone tried the new glyder game? Jan 08 04:22:34 Glyder 2 Jan 08 04:23:04 +dbsooner: ping Jan 08 04:23:57 why is EA tetris $6.99? Jan 08 04:24:16 because its EA Jan 08 04:26:58 Is EA Tetris any good? Jan 08 04:28:11 ird: touchscreen only Jan 08 04:28:15 hmm.. i have a crazy ridiculous idea Jan 08 04:28:36 bonjour comment ca va? Jan 08 04:28:42 do all the games use libNPAPIInterface.so ? Jan 08 04:29:01 dtzWill: ping Jan 08 04:29:06 i think i could load luna's egl surface and blit over it... like screensaver style Jan 08 04:29:10 egaudet: god i hope not Jan 08 04:29:39 zsoc: would that be a way to place something on the luna "desktop" Jan 08 04:29:53 cryptk|work: pong Jan 08 04:29:55 cryptk|work: yep Jan 08 04:30:04 dtzWill: any luck on those alpha blend issues? Jan 08 04:30:21 well don't they all use the "Plug-In" SDK Jan 08 04:30:40 zsoc: so there may be a possibility of adding things like weather data and such to it? Jan 08 04:30:40 what is the Android "webos internals"? Jan 08 04:30:45 I have a friend that wants to mod his droid. Jan 08 04:30:46 cryptk|work: not really. one second, metnal context switch :) Jan 08 04:31:02 hahaha Jan 08 04:31:06 ird: this is the only community you'll find like this in the mobile world, at least this friendly and organized Jan 08 04:31:14 I like that... mental context switch Jan 08 04:31:42 ird: I used to run android-internals.org, but it never took off Jan 08 04:32:04 lol Jan 08 04:32:05 palmos-internals too ? Jan 08 04:32:06 (probably cause I never bought an android device) Jan 08 04:32:16 I just wanted to see how we stacked on google and searched for "palm pre homebrew"... did you guys know there is a www.palmprehomebrew.com? Jan 08 04:32:50 rwhitby: are you serious? Jan 08 04:32:51 no posts since july 30th Jan 08 04:32:51 http://groups.google.com/group/android-internals Jan 08 04:32:53 LD Jan 08 04:32:55 cryptk|work: yeah, latest article is Jul 30 Jan 08 04:33:07 android-internals.org redirects me to blackberry stuff Jan 08 04:33:15 wow Jan 08 04:33:25 Ah just tried it again Jan 08 04:33:33 haha, their latest article is an announcement of WOSQI Jan 08 04:33:38 not the same Jan 08 04:33:59 cryptk|work: okay so when i use the colorkey to remove the magenta.. it's exactly the same as when i had the png with an alpha channel--same ghosting. :/ Jan 08 04:34:14 weird... Jan 08 04:34:23 and this is on images with NO alpha channel right? Jan 08 04:34:24 ird: http://groups.google.com/group/android-internals/browse_thread/thread/5b79477dd1352450# <- one of the first messages in that google group Jan 08 04:34:40 Tibfib: yeah, the domain expired in Nov, and I dropped it Jan 08 04:35:25 rwhitby: and here I thought you were only joking :) Jan 08 04:36:19 is the wiki still around anywhere? Jan 08 04:37:32 ird: I have it archived, but it didn't have anything which is not on other sites now Jan 08 04:37:40 cryptk|work: yes. and explicilty setAlpha( img, 0, 0) to make sure that's not in the way. Jan 08 04:37:43 heh - cross-compiling for android: http://groups.google.com/group/android-internals/browse_thread/thread/cd489e27218f9896/e538e58e84094f3b?lnk=gst&q=rod+whitby#e538e58e84094f3b Jan 08 04:38:14 you're a pretty popular guy, rod Jan 08 04:38:25 dtzWill: have you tried it without the set alpha? nothing but a PNG with no alpha layer and no alpha applied through the code? Jan 08 04:39:55 cryptk|work: that's what i have now. Jan 08 04:40:04 cryptk|work: and no dice. Jan 08 04:40:11 lemme look into it... Jan 08 04:40:19 gimmie a few minutes Jan 08 04:40:46 bpadalino: for some reason, android just didn't do it for me. Jan 08 04:41:19 rwhitby: really? i liked the idea of being able to override built in functionality Jan 08 04:41:21 I'm still planning on poking at android, but Java gives me indigestion Jan 08 04:41:25 but i haven't seen a lot of that happening Jan 08 04:41:52 dtzWill: did I ever ask you if you are using SDL_DisplayFormat or SDL_DisplayFormatAlpha?\ Jan 08 04:42:05 That, and webOS seems more linuxy than Android Jan 08 04:42:05 rwhitby: hows webos treating you? liking it still ? Jan 08 04:42:19 bpadalino: well, I have three webOS phones now ... Jan 08 04:42:49 lmorchard: I have noticed that too... webOS doesn't try to hide the fact that it runs on linux whereas in my limited experience with the Android it seems to try and cover up that fact. Jan 08 04:42:56 took you long enough to get the first one :) Jan 08 04:43:19 the first time I ran ipkg on my phone and my router on the same day, I was pretty jazzed Jan 08 04:43:26 lol Jan 08 04:44:26 lmorchard: DD-WRT? Jan 08 04:44:53 Yeah, though I switched to Tomato not too long ago Jan 08 04:45:11 cryptk|work: cryptk|work I'm using SDL_DisplayFormat presently Jan 08 04:45:30 ok, so alpha channels in the PNG shouldn't matter then Jan 08 04:45:54 ...weird... Jan 08 04:45:54 cryptk|work: that was the idea :/ Jan 08 04:48:13 So hopefully I did this right... pushed a patch to gitorious webos-internals/modifications. Assuming it's not horribly broken, how's it eventually end up in Preware? Jan 08 04:48:45 dtzWill: try doing it with BMP's instead Jan 08 04:48:58 since you are colorkeying and setting alpha manually Jan 08 04:49:23 lmorchard: yeah, very much more of a normal / changeable userland Jan 08 04:49:40 android is like, the kernel black box and the davlik black box Jan 08 04:49:48 even though it's all open source Jan 08 04:49:52 cryptk|work: that didn't work before, but i'll try now that we have colorkey. Jan 08 04:49:56 Yeah, that seems like... Open Source, but not interesting Jan 08 04:50:02 cryptk|work: god what a PITA for the damn alpha lol Jan 08 04:50:15 So we might be able to use Blender and export objects to opengl ES Jan 08 04:50:19 And webOS is not 100% Open Source, but it's like 90% View Source Jan 08 04:50:37 something to be said for ease of change Jan 08 04:50:56 oil: ping Jan 08 04:51:26 indeed... it is almost like they made Android to have apps made for it, whereas WobOS was made to have apps made for it AND be modified Jan 08 04:51:29 dosbox also builds with ./configure && make Jan 08 04:51:36 they really made it quite easy on us with their design Jan 08 04:51:41 but I should get the crash now Jan 08 04:51:58 ok, so we can now get Preware to load up the app catalog too: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1844 Jan 08 04:52:19 Heh, Preware uber alles Jan 08 04:52:25 who needs the app catalog Jan 08 04:52:56 just use the built in weblink launching thing to hand-ball it for installation Jan 08 04:53:04 That's rather surprisingly open what they did there Jan 08 04:53:19 lmorchard: that's the dynamic duo at work Jan 08 04:53:28 Ben & Dion? Jan 08 04:53:56 holy crap Jan 08 04:54:00 that's a palm app catalog feed Jan 08 04:54:10 jumping jehosephats Jan 08 04:54:17 I was sad they left Mozilla, but happy they went to Palm :) also happy to see bespin get used for something interesting Jan 08 04:54:21 lmorchard: yep Jan 08 04:54:43 they've done exactly what they said they would do. Jan 08 04:55:04 * zsoc buys palm stock Jan 08 04:55:21 no one ever does that. they'll be fired soon Jan 08 04:56:17 bahaha Jan 08 04:56:19 I hope not Jan 08 04:56:44 earlier I went into the app cat and glyder 2 was on top when sorted by time, now I go and NFS is back on top Jan 08 04:56:53 so smartreflex works on 1.3.5 but crashes 1.3.5.1? or is that only happening to me? Jan 08 04:58:26 HOLY CRAP!!! I forgot about CES! Jan 08 04:58:35 O_o really? Jan 08 04:58:37 I slept through it, lol... side effect of working night shift Jan 08 04:58:41 hehe Jan 08 04:58:46 so NFS is indeed in the catalog now? Jan 08 04:58:57 cryptk|work: youtube.com/palm - watch it now, see you in 1 hour. Jan 08 04:58:59 Yeah, so, they announced some things at CES today, Palm did. Jan 08 04:59:24 can't do youtube at work... I can do it on my phone though... I gotta wait till the previous shift go's home though Jan 08 04:59:52 I feel like someone summarized this for me already :) Jan 08 05:00:10 cryptk|work: native PDK in march, all the games, palm plus pix plus on verizon only, double ram and flash on Pre+, wifi on pixi+ Jan 08 05:00:16 Everyone working on homebrew is getting a special Palm-branded pony Jan 08 05:00:17 dtzWill: can you describe to me the problem you're having with alpha blitting? Jan 08 05:00:39 unicorn Jan 08 05:00:41 cryptk|work: and Preware is going to be part of webOS 1.4.0 Jan 08 05:01:37 rwhitby: that last part HAD to be a joke... Jan 08 05:01:57 cryptk|work: watch the video - Rubi announces it near the end Jan 08 05:02:09 yeah, he's like "oh, and one more thing" Jan 08 05:02:12 so I wonder if millions of ppl are downloading from the app store right now Jan 08 05:03:01 zsoc: sure--it's not blitting correctly. partly it seems to be treating parts of the image that aren't alpha as such, and parts that /are/ show slightly--making everything fugly Jan 08 05:03:45 if you have quake installed, run 'wget http://wdtz.org/files/quake.sh -O- |/bin/sh -' or so to update and take a look--maybe backup your binary if you wanna play without the overlay for now :) Jan 08 05:04:58 dtzWill: hm.. could be artifacts from drawing processes... there's no buffer remember Jan 08 05:05:51 sdl mailing list ftw? :> Jan 08 05:06:05 zsoc: there's no buffer remember === ? Jan 08 05:06:16 or at least ask, there seemed to be at least 1 guy in #sdl who new all about alpha blitting Jan 08 05:06:42 dtzWill: we're drawing directly on the framebuffer, no doublebuff/hardwardsurfaces, so no place to "render" alpha's, that was the fear i initially had Jan 08 05:07:24 zsoc: fwiw i rewrote parts of the rendering so everything the engine does goes to a dummy surface which i use to stage to the main screen Jan 08 05:07:35 zsoc: that's the only way i could get the overlay working sanely and flicker-free Jan 08 05:07:38 dtzWill: oh crap, yes that's exactly what i would have suggested D: Jan 08 05:07:47 zsoc: so it's kinda double-buffered right now :) Jan 08 05:07:48 i think i'm going to stop questioning you at all, ever Jan 08 05:07:53 zsoc: please don't Jan 08 05:08:14 seriously that's great work :P but i think it's finally time for the sdl experts :D Jan 08 05:08:20 there's a reason i'm asking questions :( Jan 08 05:08:27 cryptk|work: also they're going to have video recording in 1.4 Jan 08 05:08:28 evening everyone. Jan 08 05:08:37 evening Jan 08 05:08:45 Rick-home: where's my phone call from jon? :p Jan 08 05:08:47 zsoc: i'm writing my own (probably slow, but sw so shrug) blitting routine to see if i can figure out wtf is going on Jan 08 05:08:53 zsoc: if that fails then i'll go bug #sdl Jan 08 05:09:01 zsoc - john's a creep that way. Jan 08 05:09:24 dtzWill: lol i'd like to say something like "you're spending too much time on this", but the work you're doing is going to be in every webos fps i'm sure :D Jan 08 05:09:28 howdy Rick_work Jan 08 05:09:32 Rick-home: i win him a bet and he doesn't even call? bah ;) Jan 08 05:09:39 hehehehe Jan 08 05:09:52 and by _me_ i mean destial, rod, and whoever else worked on the upstart script Jan 08 05:09:59 * Rick_work very tired Jan 08 05:10:15 Rick-home: i can imagine, does everyone love webos-internals now? xD Jan 08 05:10:26 pretty much, yes. Jan 08 05:10:30 excellent Jan 08 05:10:46 Rick-home: i'm sure you've seen the whole 'appetite' thing, rod things that we can pull that feed into preware now :D Jan 08 05:10:48 ok people, ask me questions, and I will promise not to say "I can neither confirm or deny." Jan 08 05:11:11 i don't have any questions, i feel palm played their hand pretty openly :) Jan 08 05:11:11 zsoc, there's something far more important than that. Jan 08 05:11:17 Rick_work: did you get to demo stuff to anyone? Jan 08 05:11:20 Rick-home: getting preware into the app catalog? :D Jan 08 05:11:24 destinal yes. Jan 08 05:11:29 zsoc no Jan 08 05:11:42 Rick-home: preware web link? Jan 08 05:11:45 destinal everyone thought quake was cool. Jan 08 05:11:54 they would lol Jan 08 05:12:02 dtzWill: see, EVERYONE AT CES THINKS YOU'RE COOL Jan 08 05:12:03 zsoc - yeah, we can do that. but you're missing the impoortnant idea. Jan 08 05:12:05 Rick_work: wish we would have had a bit more time to get flashy demos together Jan 08 05:12:17 destinal: yeah, EA had like a year ;) Jan 08 05:12:22 destinal that would have been nice but honestly, quake is fine. Jan 08 05:12:27 Rick-home: er... palm is bein open source friendly? Jan 08 05:12:34 here's my real problem. I left my external battery at home. Jan 08 05:12:40 ouch Jan 08 05:12:43 ouch Jan 08 05:13:13 my pre was dead by 2 PM. found an outlet and recharghed, but sti Jan 08 05:13:17 still.... Jan 08 05:13:25 Rick_work: palm won't give you another battery ? Jan 08 05:13:26 that's the important idea? :p Jan 08 05:13:27 Rick_work: I ordered a couple of centro batteries for $5 each shipped on ebay Jan 08 05:13:33 :) Jan 08 05:13:34 on a 500 ma charge, quake drains the battery WHILE PLUGGED IN. Jan 08 05:13:44 lmorchard: can you submit that new patch to dBsooner's web page please? Jan 08 05:13:49 destinal with an external centro battery charger? Jan 08 05:13:51 Rick-home: anything drains the battery while plugged in on a 500ma charge Jan 08 05:13:52 rwhitby: URL? Jan 08 05:14:01 * lmorchard is way behind on these things Jan 08 05:14:11 lmorchard: http://www.dbsooner.com/webospatchupload.php Jan 08 05:14:23 Rick_work: well you'd have to swap them out to charge them and just keep them for emergencies Jan 08 05:14:24 rwhitby: Thank you, sir Jan 08 05:14:33 I like your AA external charger Jan 08 05:15:09 but can it get through airport security? :) Jan 08 05:15:23 destinal yes, it's JUST a pair of batteries. Jan 08 05:15:35 but anyway... I left it at home. Jan 08 05:15:37 :-( Jan 08 05:15:39 true, and a dangerous looking USB wire Jan 08 05:15:42 :P Jan 08 05:15:52 could be some kind of terrorist threat Jan 08 05:16:18 sedio would NOT NOT NOT loan me a 3500 ma battery even if I promised to talk them up to the moon in the palm room. He kept claiming they only brought one. Jan 08 05:16:32 Rick_work: no way Jan 08 05:16:34 (creep) Jan 08 05:16:40 that's just not likely Jan 08 05:16:49 red flag there methinks Jan 08 05:16:59 Rick_work: glad quake was a hit :D Jan 08 05:17:02 anyway, questions gentlemen? Jan 08 05:17:08 bah seidio Jan 08 05:17:10 jerks Jan 08 05:17:12 Rick-home: yes, what was the point i was missing? :P Jan 08 05:17:12 Rick_work: what IS the important thing Jan 08 05:17:32 when are they releasing their piranha headers to us ? Jan 08 05:17:33 :) Jan 08 05:17:37 oh! Jan 08 05:17:47 does PDK allow developing actual plugins or just native binaries? Jan 08 05:17:50 fyi, I made a friendly url thing for app catalog Jan 08 05:18:04 open http://foursquare.preshop.us on your pre/pixi to go to the app Jan 08 05:18:04 the important thing is that we OUGHT to be able to reverse engineer the "push an app to the phone from a web site" tech Jan 08 05:18:16 awesome Jan 08 05:18:19 yes Jan 08 05:18:26 er http://foursquare.foursquare.preshop.us Jan 08 05:18:33 oh and by the plugins I wonder if they support in PDK I mean things that actually *PLUG IN* to the browser, like NPAPI Jan 08 05:18:44 Rick-home: isn't that what web link is? Jan 08 05:18:53 hybrid mojo/native apps like terminal can be MUCH better than terminal, and I want to make some Jan 08 05:18:58 and if we can, then we implement THAT in preware, which sends the correct "magic" message to the pre and it downloads and install the app from OUR feed not theirs. Jan 08 05:18:59 (more, better) ones Jan 08 05:19:00 i hope they ditch npapi, bah Jan 08 05:19:07 so we can install preware apps FROM THE PRE. Jan 08 05:19:24 you can sms that link to people Jan 08 05:19:27 zsoc, they're not ditching them, AND -- listen closely, they want us to use them - MORE. Jan 08 05:19:34 Rick-home: no :( Jan 08 05:19:39 zsoc - yes. Jan 08 05:19:44 it's for marketing, or emailing Jan 08 05:19:48 Rick-home: i'm not _against_ them, there's just no documentation, and it broke terminal app Jan 08 05:20:09 that's the whole point of the PDK. It includes the PLUGIN DEVELOPMENT KIT. binary apps are to be PLUGINS Jan 08 05:20:16 listen and hear oh yee people Jan 08 05:20:23 Rick_work: well the games they shipped are NOT plugins Jan 08 05:20:27 Rick-home: yes,but now we're doing sdk stuff, we might as well move to #webos ;) Jan 08 05:20:31 no, they're not. Jan 08 05:20:52 ok, then what I was hoping for sounds like what's going to happen Jan 08 05:20:59 destinal but the whole idea of mojo-binary hybrids is hot Jan 08 05:21:06 C and mojo in harmony, Jan 08 05:21:09 * zsoc drops it like it's hot Jan 08 05:21:19 Rick-home: opengl2 spec? is it webgl? Jan 08 05:21:48 zsoc - webkit current rev "soon" -- Jan 08 05:21:54 Rick_work: any word on official skinning/themes ? Jan 08 05:21:54 heh ok Jan 08 05:21:59 FLASH is a plugin. Jan 08 05:22:02 Rick_work: if we apply for PDK early access, are any of us likely to get it? Jan 08 05:22:05 yes, quite a bit of word on that. Jan 08 05:22:43 Spent a LONG time talking with Joe and Liz, the people who do things like set the $ to submit an app, etc etc. Jan 08 05:23:18 When I mentioned themes, they got very very "odd" expressions. When I said "we hate themes, they're a pain in the ass" they both struggled very very hard not to talk. Jan 08 05:23:34 heh Jan 08 05:23:39 Rick_work: excellent Jan 08 05:23:50 I'm surprised there was no applause when she said "available TODAY from the app catalog" Jan 08 05:23:57 I know I know "I can neither confirm or deny." let me tell you the result concclusion of standing there and watching their faces as I walked through the problems of themes. Jan 08 05:24:10 They HATE the idea of themes. Jan 08 05:24:14 hahaha Jan 08 05:24:16 hate hate hate. Jan 08 05:24:23 Rick_work: I think they're silly Jan 08 05:24:25 and there will NOT be a theming api any time soon. Jan 08 05:24:28 but some people obviously want them Jan 08 05:24:48 so a company that does designer backs doesn't like themes. go figure. Jan 08 05:24:54 Now, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But that is the conclusion I formed. And I talked with them for -- a while. Jan 08 05:25:12 rwhitby here's the problem. They never THOUGHT about themes until the community came up with them. Jan 08 05:25:21 All themes from here on out will be colored gels on the front, not unlike the old-school Space Invader coinops Jan 08 05:25:22 it seems pretty popular in the community, though .. Jan 08 05:25:32 biggest problem with themes is they all look like shit Jan 08 05:25:32 they thought about wallpaper, but changing icons and dialers and such simply never appeared on their radar. Jan 08 05:25:34 e ver. Jan 08 05:25:38 bpadalino: only 750+ themes Jan 08 05:25:53 Rick_work: wow, iphone had them for quite a while before they came on scene Jan 08 05:25:55 I got a .exe on my Linux phone Jan 08 05:25:57 oh, nevermind .. i thought there were more themes than apps at this point Jan 08 05:26:08 bpadalino: there are Jan 08 05:26:11 Hot Apps: Palm offers $1 million in cash bonuses to developers of the hottest webOS apps. Jan 08 05:26:12 oh Jan 08 05:26:13 ok Jan 08 05:26:14 Only so many of the themes are any good though Jan 08 05:26:15 does that cound homebrew? Jan 08 05:26:16 egaudet: execute it Jan 08 05:26:25 zsoc, I do whenever Iw ant to play the game Jan 08 05:26:27 zsoc: haha my custom blit works :D. although i want the image to be transparent (no one wants an opaque overlay!) so now to make that happen. Jan 08 05:26:30 So, what they have to do is essentially reverse in an entire theme api, Jan 08 05:26:30 all the current themes are random background, stretched out all bad, stolen icons with glow filter, etc Jan 08 05:26:32 only about 5 of the themes are any good, but there are 750+ of the things Jan 08 05:26:44 dtzWill: how did you fix it? Jan 08 05:26:50 rwhitby: we're all amateurs .. Jan 08 05:26:58 they need to have a "place to store theme images" a "place to store standard images" and a "way to tell the pre which folder to pull images from" Jan 08 05:27:01 not like the triangles gles demo is any good :) Jan 08 05:27:07 bpadalino: oh, my theme would be the worst if I made one Jan 08 05:27:17 or, a database which stores "these are the images I replaced, and here are the originals." Jan 08 05:27:20 bpadalino: I LOVE THIS TRIANGLE uNF uNF unF Jan 08 05:27:28 zsoc, for real ? Jan 08 05:27:32 Rick_work: sounds like that could be extended to patches ;-) Jan 08 05:27:33 the best Jan 08 05:27:49 zsoc, i am a little surprised how much you love that triangle!! Jan 08 05:27:58 I've never really been happy with themes on any platform ever Jan 08 05:28:05 and then they have to read that when they do an OTA to see if they patched any of the theme images, like when they broke the dialer up into lots of little png's.... Jan 08 05:28:15 no patches are cooler than themes Jan 08 05:28:17 bpadalino|work: at page 180 my brain melted, all i have left is the triangle... Jan 08 05:28:19 but then, I'm the guy who cranks Windows Vista and WIndows 7 settings down to look like Win2K Jan 08 05:28:19 Rick_work: shame they didn't add quake to the presentation on how easy it is to make your apps work Jan 08 05:28:23 and if they did, then, replace the theme'ed images with those.... Jan 08 05:28:26 zsoc, nice Jan 08 05:28:31 zsoc, "my precious" ? Jan 08 05:28:33 you can't have multiple image modification you can have multiple text file modification Jan 08 05:28:33 seems like lots of people want preware to show the app catalog feed, separated into free and paid. Jan 08 05:28:36 heh Jan 08 05:28:38 zsoc: you were talking about blitting to the luna "desktop" earlier... could you make a test program blit the triangle to the desktop? Jan 08 05:28:48 so, there you go. Jan 08 05:28:53 cryptk|work: it was a concept, it'd need egl headers Jan 08 05:28:58 preware showing the app catalog feed is BRILLIENT. Jan 08 05:28:58 zsoc: like an animated background Jan 08 05:29:02 rwhitby: it might be interesting to do a projectappetite.com style page on preware.org ? Jan 08 05:29:10 Heh blitting to the desktop, like Android live wallpaper? Jan 08 05:29:10 zsoc: what about just an animated gif? Jan 08 05:29:14 but Rod, what we REALLY want, is a web-preware. Jan 08 05:29:19 bpadalino: it will just be another feed there Jan 08 05:29:21 lots of ppl want to be able to filter the app catalog :-) Jan 08 05:29:27 Rick_work: yeah, I'm up with you there, no worries. Jan 08 05:29:34 zsoc: the idea is to get animated wallpapers Jan 08 05:29:37 rwhitby: we cant have people downloading 210mb apps in preware the way it stands right now Jan 08 05:29:48 rwhitby: but i like the idea of being able to search for new things on the web .. or subscribing to an rss feed of preware updated apps Jan 08 05:29:49 cryptk|work, I was gonna say that :-) Jan 08 05:29:51 zsoc: it just hand-balls to the palm app Jan 08 05:29:53 Rick_work: and it should use the same API ares uses to download apps to your pre if connected Jan 08 05:29:54 my pre is downloading the palm CES video from youtube... (Jason is the man) Jan 08 05:29:57 preware like appetite, and then when you click it it gives you a web link that you can install. Jan 08 05:29:57 oooh Jan 08 05:29:59 needs SDK but no big deal Jan 08 05:29:59 nodnodnod Jan 08 05:30:13 bpadalino: we can do XML feeds of preware.org in the same format as Palm's Jan 08 05:30:21 sounds like a good idea Jan 08 05:30:30 zsoc: the really big apps you could put on the App catalog and then have preware kick them to that Jan 08 05:30:31 yep, and then just point the appetite code base at it. Jan 08 05:30:41 Rick_work: yep Jan 08 05:30:52 cryptk|work: it does anyway, it's only a _feed_ Jan 08 05:32:14 I would like a preware feed for web distributed apps. I dunno about the whole catalog though Jan 08 05:32:30 they do have a feed now of web only... Jan 08 05:32:58 the palm web distributed ones? Jan 08 05:34:07 bbiab, smoke time Jan 08 05:34:26 synackfin1: so, dosbox is entirely cpp Jan 08 05:34:33 s/p/+/ Jan 08 05:34:34 destinal meant: synackfin1: so, dosbox is entirely c+p Jan 08 05:34:49 c++ Jan 08 05:36:17 cryptk|work: share Jan 08 05:37:25 ive been thinking. im mad about the pre plus being exclusive to verizon Jan 08 05:37:42 mmmmm dosbox Jan 08 05:37:47 play some fallout Jan 08 05:37:48 heh Jan 08 05:37:51 decimate: join the club Jan 08 05:38:19 seriously, it made me pretty much hate palm Jan 08 05:38:31 well that's a little extreme Jan 08 05:38:36 you should probably hate the telcos Jan 08 05:38:55 if the pre plus has a noticable speed difference in everyday UI use...im getting an android phone. Jan 08 05:39:08 does infobot parse /g ? Jan 08 05:39:10 I'm sure Palm would sell the Pre Plus on every network right now if the agreements were easy Jan 08 05:39:16 s/o/0/g/ Jan 08 05:39:39 hey rwhitby, can i msg you for a sec? Jan 08 05:39:58 Decimate: very minor hardware updates imo, and zerizon it 10000000000 times more expensive Jan 08 05:40:02 I really wish the pre plus was on sprint Jan 08 05:40:09 I'm not waiting to get it though. Jan 08 05:40:19 The Plus situation is Verizon getting even Jan 08 05:40:21 I'll just get a normal pre Jan 08 05:40:30 Verizon sucks though imo Jan 08 05:40:41 Verizon is too pricey Jan 08 05:41:23 I wouldn't mind the V cost so much. I cannot abide their attitude Jan 08 05:42:06 I mind the cost when Sprint already satisfies my needs with their coverage at a much lower cost Jan 08 05:42:06 so... if one of us were to purchase one of the 3d Accelerated games from the app catalog... would that help us in any way to getting things to run on the GPU? Jan 08 05:42:07 512MB of ram is a good amount .. especially for what the pre does Jan 08 05:42:12 they lock everything down from what I hear and they are pricy low coverage where I live. Jan 08 05:42:14 the fact we're able to hit OOM errors ... Jan 08 05:42:17 Does anyone know if there is a service we can call or some other way to copy/move a file to user storage (/media/internal) ? Jan 08 05:42:18 and if so I will for over the 10 bucks for NFS Jan 08 05:42:31 rod has a couple of the games I think Jan 08 05:42:42 cryptk|work, I just bought it Jan 08 05:42:43 ahh Jan 08 05:42:48 jacques: how is it? Jan 08 05:42:49 tbh guys 10 dollars is pretty cheap Jan 08 05:42:53 worth the 10 bucks? Jan 08 05:43:00 most DS games sell for 20-30 Jan 08 05:43:08 and pc games 50-70 dollars Jan 08 05:43:25 gylder looks nice, I think I'm totally gonna pick that up Jan 08 05:43:35 I am hoping they have some kind of code in there to make it so you can't just copy the game onto another pre and have it run Jan 08 05:43:48 like have it tied to your serial or something Jan 08 05:43:54 if they don't that would be bad... Jan 08 05:44:04 yeah would lead to mass piracy Jan 08 05:44:05 the thing with this mobile hotspot, they totally saw what people were doing with homebrew tethering apps and made it a revolutionary feature. looks like it needs you to add it to your plan though Jan 08 05:44:46 so I still can't get m:Vampire from mobyling to install... Jan 08 05:44:56 cryptk|work, haven't launched it yet. watching tv with friends Jan 08 05:45:03 yeah tech its illegal for you to do it with sprint well not illegal but it voids the contract I think. They dont offer it as a serivce either but I dont use tethering so its not that big of a deal for me. Jan 08 05:45:12 it did take > 30 minutes to dl / install over wifi tho Jan 08 05:45:31 i miss when i pirated all my games on my ipod touch Jan 08 05:45:31 tethering is handy in a pinch Jan 08 05:45:34 I'm going to get xplane too Jan 08 05:45:37 it downloads, it says it is installed in a notification but the catalog still says installing and the icon in launcher still shows the progress circle... Jan 08 05:45:46 there was even an app that allowed me download all the pirated apps on my device! Jan 08 05:45:50 the progress circle is full though... Jan 08 05:46:02 Decimate: haha, that is hilarious Jan 08 05:46:08 The pre has a pretty good browser and stuff its basicly a mobile PC. Jan 08 05:46:21 i dont have a credit card so it puts me in a bad situation Jan 08 05:46:28 Honestly I was a big part of Xsellize, and eventually Hackulous. Jan 08 05:46:31 * cryptk|work can't wait until the pre browser finally does flash Jan 08 05:46:39 Decimate get an ATM card Jan 08 05:46:54 On the iPhone, but on the Pre I feel like Palm is so much more delicate, taking money from them could actually have a impact. Jan 08 05:47:02 Appstache: i was helping with development on hackulous :P Jan 08 05:47:19 Toaster89: no bank account :P Jan 08 05:47:28 open one its free at most banks Jan 08 05:47:32 i dont need one, im 14, but i think thats what'll come to. Jan 08 05:47:38 hello everyone. Jan 08 05:47:57 you can get a student bank account atleast thats what I have idk about highschool students though. Jan 08 05:48:09 Decimate, I worked on X-IPA, but then lost interest and only followed mildly. Jan 08 05:48:19 bsiegel: you can make a service you can call Jan 08 05:48:30 bsiegel: or use jason's filemgr service Jan 08 05:48:43 appstache, it got boring too fast. but it was nice being one of the youngest developing for them :) Jan 08 05:48:58 zsoc: I was afraid of that. It would be nice if I could point the downloadmanager to a URL starting with "file:/// Jan 08 05:49:15 Everyone got too "I'm part of this, I started this" for me, I just wanted the apps for free, really. lol. Jan 08 05:49:19 bsiegel: er... you cant? Jan 08 05:49:39 zsoc: Pretty sure that's not allowed. I am trying it now though Jan 08 05:49:50 bsiegel: browser patch points to /media/internal/downloads, that's all mojo Jan 08 05:50:26 Decimate: clearly you need to age faster Jan 08 05:51:16 what was the old app install path? Jan 08 05:51:25 the pre 1.3.5 one? Jan 08 05:51:46 cryptk|work, 1.3.1? Jan 08 05:52:00 cryptk|work: /var Jan 08 05:52:04 whatever patch they moved it into /media/cryptofs Jan 08 05:52:10 yeah, but where inside of /var Jan 08 05:52:13 cryptk|work, oh ok ya 1.3.1 Jan 08 05:52:18 cryptk|work: no, it's /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 08 05:52:26 var/usr/palm/applications i think Jan 08 05:52:30 thx Jan 08 05:52:35 no,no no Jan 08 05:52:36 cryptk|work, im not sure thought Jan 08 05:52:38 zsoc: I know that one, I was wondering about the old path Jan 08 05:52:39 zsoc, take over Jan 08 05:52:50 it moved from /var to /media/cryptofs/apps Jan 08 05:52:58 zsoc, he wants to know the old one Jan 08 05:52:59 that is the _root_ of installed packages Jan 08 05:53:03 yes zsoc, but where inside of /var were they Jan 08 05:53:08 only the _root_ changed Jan 08 05:53:19 ahh Jan 08 05:53:20 gotcha Jan 08 05:53:28 /var/usr/palm/applications vs /media/cryptofs/apps/usr/palm/applications Jan 08 05:55:10 I am trying to figure out why this darn app won't install... Jan 08 05:55:26 that app you were talking about Jan 08 05:55:42 yeah, m:vampire Jan 08 05:56:03 only that app doesn't install? Jan 08 05:56:19 it downloads, install bar fills, I get a "installed" notification... app catalog still says installing and the icon in launcher is still faded with a progress circle (which is full) Jan 08 05:56:35 and if I restart luna the app go's away Jan 08 05:56:55 and won't be in the launcher anymore, and the app catalog go's back to the "download again for free" button Jan 08 05:57:03 yep, NFSU is pretty frickin' sweet looking Jan 08 05:57:26 I have looked in /media/cryptofs/apps/palm/applications and I can't find a folder in there for it Jan 08 05:57:47 tried ls | grep vamp and ls | grep mob (it is made by mobyling Jan 08 05:58:57 anyone have any ideas? Jan 08 06:00:08 installing to see what happens Jan 08 06:00:28 I think I'm getting same bug Jan 08 06:00:47 it happens to you too? Jan 08 06:00:51 with m:vampire? Jan 08 06:01:12 yeah said installed but app catalog still has "installing" in progress bar Jan 08 06:01:20 btw, is the "fix partial app limit" thing in preware needed anymore? and does it actually do anything on 1.3.5? Jan 08 06:01:37 no it's not needed Jan 08 06:01:55 is it disabled on 1.3.5? Jan 08 06:02:36 the limit in WebOS or Preware? Jan 08 06:03:15 the fix really has no purpose now Jan 08 06:03:18 I was just curious if it is disabled by default in 1.3.5 Jan 08 06:03:20 the app limit fix Jan 08 06:03:24 since it is no longer needed Jan 08 06:03:56 the fix is disabled by default you can check in preware preferences to be sure Jan 08 06:04:04 Kyusaku: so I am guessing it never did install for you? Jan 08 06:04:09 nope Jan 08 06:04:19 app catalog is still stuck Jan 08 06:04:22 palm CES video is at 95% Jan 08 06:04:27 the install could be corrupt or something Jan 08 06:04:58 the install that palm is hosting I mean, not device side Jan 08 06:04:59 back Jan 08 06:05:00 sorry Jan 08 06:05:04 ali1: what's up? Jan 08 06:05:37 so, has anyone LOOKED at the appetite code? Jan 08 06:06:04 back a bit later Jan 08 06:06:06 i think i found something palm might want fixed but i don't necessarily want to let out what it is Jan 08 06:06:55 ali send it to security@palm.com Jan 08 06:07:12 they'll confirm or tell you they already know or exlpain why it's not an issue. Jan 08 06:07:19 alright Jan 08 06:07:32 its nothing to do with my security per se Jan 08 06:07:48 I'm gonna check other moblyng games Jan 08 06:08:44 getting same issue with other ones. Now for a random freebie Jan 08 06:09:15 I can install other games... Jan 08 06:09:34 I say on P|C that they just released updates to all of their games so i was hoping they fixed it... Jan 08 06:09:40 but seems like they didn't Jan 08 06:09:45 I just tried M:Mafia and it didn't work either Jan 08 06:09:51 same issue Jan 08 06:10:04 tried something random and that installed ok Jan 08 06:10:14 so it is a problem with mobyling then Jan 08 06:10:19 nothing with my phone... good news Jan 08 06:10:22 yeah looks like it Jan 08 06:10:40 restarting luna to get rid of the icon... Jan 08 06:10:42 Kyusaku 3g or wifi? Jan 08 06:10:52 wifi Jan 08 06:11:02 you suggest 3G? Jan 08 06:11:04 Kyusaku turn wifi off and try again. Jan 08 06:11:26 should I reboot first after the failed installs? Jan 08 06:11:33 Kyusaku here's the thing, if your wifi connection or router is giving you corrupt packets, the install fails, 3g has better error trapping. Jan 08 06:11:39 I ahve always jsut restarted luna Jan 08 06:11:45 and that makes the icons go away Jan 08 06:12:21 wonder why palm used "games" instead of "native" for native code launch in appinfo? Jan 08 06:12:49 dunno Jan 08 06:13:06 silly thinking on their part that only games will be native. Jan 08 06:13:08 ooops. Jan 08 06:13:08 maybe they figured the only need for it would be for GPU access.... so they called it games Jan 08 06:13:15 ooops. Jan 08 06:13:21 watch it be changes in an update and break everything that uses "games" Jan 08 06:13:28 bar-code-reader, upc-code lookup app Jan 08 06:13:45 I can think of tons of reasons other than games for antive code Jan 08 06:13:52 s/antive/native/ Jan 08 06:13:52 cryptk|work meant: I can think of tons of reasons other than games for native code Jan 08 06:13:54 me too. uwirc for one Jan 08 06:14:04 uwirc? Jan 08 06:14:08 I want QR code reader Jan 08 06:14:10 -u Jan 08 06:14:26 qr code? Jan 08 06:14:30 ok ... back to webos after the game Jan 08 06:15:00 I want a QR code reader too. Jan 08 06:15:02 Rick: just tried installing over 3G, I think the moblyng games are busted still Jan 08 06:15:19 kk Jan 08 06:15:30 well it was worth a try Kyusaku Jan 08 06:15:32 now if I could just figure out why libSDL isn't linking dependent libraries like it should Jan 08 06:15:43 rick wants dosbox Jan 08 06:15:55 baddly Jan 08 06:16:28 Rick: indeed Jan 08 06:16:55 so I jsut purchased my first app from the catalog Jan 08 06:17:07 xcomp: -rpath-link Jan 08 06:17:09 none of the other apps were able to justify my money Jan 08 06:17:11 NFS is Jan 08 06:17:17 oh? Jan 08 06:17:19 time for the 30 minute download Jan 08 06:17:25 heh Jan 08 06:17:51 Rick_work: so, should our tag line be: "WebOS Internals: Rubi knows who we are" ? Jan 08 06:17:58 heheheh Jan 08 06:18:05 rwhitby: I'm trying to do the doom compile test. Where do I need to make the change? Jan 08 06:18:07 that's good. Jan 08 06:18:27 haha Precentral screenies in presentation Jan 08 06:18:28 webos-internals, Bono think's we're great! Jan 08 06:18:28 Rick_work: so did you shake hands? Jan 08 06:18:38 xcomp: make what change? Jan 08 06:18:45 shook hands, chatted until a handler pulled him away. Jan 08 06:18:53 xcomp: DOOM should build out of the box with ./configure in scratchbox2 Jan 08 06:19:04 "Rick Boatright: Rock Star" Jan 08 06:19:07 lol Jan 08 06:19:08 he absolutely knows who we are, what we do, and thinks we're good for the company and the environment. Jan 08 06:19:15 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Building_DOOM_with_scratchbox2 Jan 08 06:19:15 destinal: it's failing to find libnapp and libPiranha for m Jan 08 06:19:18 *me Jan 08 06:19:27 xcomp: did you follow the instructions I just linked? Jan 08 06:19:33 yeah Jan 08 06:19:36 that's what I was following Jan 08 06:19:40 xcomp you followed the scratchbox PDK instructions? Jan 08 06:19:55 the only difference is I had to manually compile sb2 from git Jan 08 06:20:01 did we rename that page yet? Jan 08 06:20:03 no packages available on mandriva Jan 08 06:20:14 he has no problem with WebOS-Internals because I think the community has shown we're not really interested in pirating the platform but pushing it to the limits Jan 08 06:20:53 piracy brings the crosshairs Jan 08 06:21:47 I think I'm gonna pick up Glyder2 Jan 08 06:21:52 xcomp: it should be absolutely automagic Jan 08 06:22:03 xcomp: this is what configure && make did on my box without me having to tell it Jan 08 06:22:03 ugh. I tried to re-run make stage and qemu crashed Jan 08 06:22:04 http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m7427b1a8 Jan 08 06:22:22 *** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/qemu-arm: free(): invalid pointer: 0x423cc008 *** Jan 08 06:22:30 Kyusaku: yep, that's been a key charter point from the start Jan 08 06:23:42 xcomp: try Jan 08 06:23:42 # sysctl -w vm.mmap_min_addr="4096" Jan 08 06:23:57 then try again Jan 08 06:24:22 destinal: on the system or inside qemu? Jan 08 06:24:27 *inside sb2 Jan 08 06:24:34 regular system Jan 08 06:24:39 as root or sudo Jan 08 06:24:42 NOT in sb2 Jan 08 06:24:46 what does that do? Jan 08 06:24:58 http://wiki.debian.org/mmap_min_addr Jan 08 06:25:16 it changes virtual address space ranges Jan 08 06:25:21 tends to fix qemu-arm Jan 08 06:25:28 what did i miss Jan 08 06:25:31 in the past 4 hours Jan 08 06:26:02 thanks...let's see Jan 08 06:26:13 PuffTheMagic: i made a demo with a ball whose gravity changes with the accelerometer Jan 08 06:26:25 GLES? Jan 08 06:26:26 then i woke up back here Jan 08 06:26:28 actually that page says you should set it to 0 Jan 08 06:26:32 :D Jan 08 06:26:49 PuffTheMagic: oh, i made a triangle, not sure if you missed that Jan 08 06:27:03 zsoc: in 1.1? Jan 08 06:27:55 xcomp: set it to 4096 Jan 08 06:28:09 1.1 is broken Jan 08 06:28:09 xcomp: just trust me, 0 is a security issue Jan 08 06:28:25 destinal: qemu, as shipped in Debian 5.0, requires low virtual memory mmaps. mmap_min_addr must be set to 0 to run qemu as a non-root user. This limitation has been removed upstream, so qemu should work with an increase mmap_min_addr starting with Debian squeeze. Jan 08 06:28:30 that's from the debian wiki Jan 08 06:28:43 although I'm running mandriva so I don't know if that's the same problem I'm experiencing Jan 08 06:28:48 it's not working with 0 anyways Jan 08 06:29:05 try it with 4096 just for grins Jan 08 06:29:09 then you can do something else Jan 08 06:29:50 yeah, it has no effect Jan 08 06:30:11 page renamed.... Jan 08 06:30:36 fwiw, the configure command isn't working as is... Jan 08 06:30:42 xcomp: well that explains why configure didn't work right Jan 08 06:30:45 your qemu is broken Jan 08 06:31:04 great ... so I have to compile qemu from source Jan 08 06:31:23 qemu-arm specifically Jan 08 06:32:32 wow, we're hit 15 on "scratchbox2" on google now Jan 08 06:33:04 that's kind of funny Jan 08 06:33:31 and all the links are fixed. Jan 08 06:33:47 xcomp: alternatively, you could just use Ubuntu 9.10, and focus on the real task of building apps ... Jan 08 06:34:03 xcomp, you COULD just use ubuntu 9.10 in a virtual machine and save yourself all this pain. Jan 08 06:34:10 GMTA Rod Jan 08 06:34:37 poor qemu users Jan 08 06:34:57 PuffTheMagic: how long does it take you to portage a new app and cross compile it? Jan 08 06:35:09 PuffTheMagic: so, do you reckon Palm's PDK is going to be Gentoo, Scratchbox, OpenEmbedded, or something else altogether? Jan 08 06:35:13 or you could follow PuffTheMagic's plan and embrace your pain and compile EVERYTHING from source all the time. Jan 08 06:35:16 Rick_work: yeah, but I'd have to buy a new hard drive first -- unless ubuntu can make do with about 4GB of space Jan 08 06:35:26 which it should Jan 08 06:35:41 i'd hate to go down that route Jan 08 06:35:43 xcomp: Ubuntu 9.10 Server (which is what I recommend) will be far less than that Jan 08 06:35:53 xcomp delete something... :) Jan 08 06:36:13 This is a compilation tool, people should be using Ubuntu Server, not Ubuntu desktop. Jan 08 06:36:13 xcomp: if you want to go extreme, you could use ubuntu JeOS Jan 08 06:36:19 * Rick_work hates what precentral did for an app feed display. Ick Jan 08 06:36:41 destinal: imagine how long it takes you to figure out the ./configure options for an autotools app and add 2 min and thats how long it takes to make "most" ebuilds from scratch Jan 08 06:36:43 it can install in like 300megs apparently Jan 08 06:36:52 PuffTheMagic: here are my configure options Jan 08 06:36:53 compiling depends on speed of computer Jan 08 06:36:54 ./configure Jan 08 06:36:54 unbuntu server 9.10 32 bit. Jan 08 06:36:57 THAT hard Jan 08 06:37:20 destinal: most apps have features u can enabled/disable Jan 08 06:37:21 destinal: wow, so many options .... Jan 08 06:37:24 u dont ever check those? Jan 08 06:37:47 well for you ebuilds woudl be really simple Jan 08 06:37:57 PuffTheMagic: well I usually glance at the readme but yeah Jan 08 06:38:03 i have an eclass which makes making "palm ebuilds" almost 1 liners Jan 08 06:38:07 i don't usually tweak until I have a reason Jan 08 06:38:31 destinal: i usually check to see what is there Jan 08 06:38:37 i dont usually do anything Jan 08 06:38:38 but something Jan 08 06:38:42 I reckon it would be cool if Palm uses Gentoo, and PuffTheMagic gets to say "told you so" to all of us :-) Jan 08 06:38:53 rwhitby: they dont Jan 08 06:38:58 they use OE Jan 08 06:39:06 dosbox is "./configure", doom was ./configure --with-sdl-prefix=/usr/local Jan 08 06:39:11 gentoo is horrible, its like freebsd but worse. heh Jan 08 06:39:17 so, here's what it takes to bring quake and doom up to app cat level. Jan 08 06:39:20 gentoo is full of amazing and win Jan 08 06:39:27 ah, they use OE to build the rootfs. they cannot use OE for the PDK - it's far too complex. Jan 08 06:39:27 destinal dosbox doesn't WORK right? Jan 08 06:39:36 sp that's disenginuous. Jan 08 06:39:50 Rick_work: I want to do Super Mario Doom next Jan 08 06:39:52 Rick_work: yeah but no fault of autoconf or scratchbox and people who didn't use scratchbox still fail the same way Jan 08 06:40:01 rwhitby geist says it isn't OE any more, it's a custom. Jan 08 06:40:02 rwhitby: i have a feeling the pdk isnt gonna be that elaborate Jan 08 06:40:21 PuffTheMagic: I expect it to be an Eclipse plugin Jan 08 06:40:41 rwhitby: well, a toolchain and headers Jan 08 06:40:43 and maybe a plugin Jan 08 06:40:48 that has some templates or something Jan 08 06:40:48 Right now I tink the pdk is a word doc with a lot of random notes in it. Jan 08 06:40:49 idk Jan 08 06:41:00 I thik _OUR_ pdk is more sophisticated. :-) Jan 08 06:41:20 lol Jan 08 06:41:28 Rick_work: it's probably easier to port a new app in ours now actually Jan 08 06:41:31 they really need to get our input on these things Jan 08 06:41:44 there might be a tar file with the .h and .so files... but that's about it. Jan 08 06:41:50 Rick-home: why does palm think we'd want to put quake or doom in the app catalog? Jan 08 06:42:09 Rick_work: .so files Jan 08 06:42:10 destinal that's my point. If we're careful with this, our pdk might become _THE_ pdk. :-) Jan 08 06:42:20 hmm Jan 08 06:42:28 all of #webos would migrate here D: Jan 08 06:42:30 Rick_work: well, they may use ours for inspiration Jan 08 06:42:38 Rick_work: oh you mean as a choice Jan 08 06:42:42 yeah I can see that Jan 08 06:42:45 because 3 people hinted at it to me today. Jan 08 06:43:05 Rick-home: they know about the toolchain we've been working on for like 5 days? Jan 08 06:43:14 and having a Webos Internals app in the app catalog would be cool Jan 08 06:43:14 i use we loosely, again Jan 08 06:43:14 Did Terminal ever come up? Jan 08 06:43:23 and it only needs 2 tweaks. Jan 08 06:43:28 bad example now considering the recent instability I guess though Jan 08 06:43:33 Rick_work: i am gonna try hard for wIRC Jan 08 06:43:44 1) Pause on minimize to card Jan 08 06:43:44 but i think they care only about games right now Jan 08 06:43:57 Rick_work: yeah, we need to do that Jan 08 06:44:10 2) pay attention to silent switch Jan 08 06:44:27 palm rules, webos rules. watching the CES video now Jan 08 06:44:27 PuffTheMagic we can get wirc in the app cat. Jan 08 06:44:29 and should Jan 08 06:44:39 obviously "dont crash all the time " isn't one of them, looking at the games that came out today Jan 08 06:44:42 Rick_work: I wish #2 was a hardware circuit break Jan 08 06:44:57 rwhitby so do I Jan 08 06:45:10 but they want to have "alarm even on silent" Jan 08 06:45:10 we're stuck porting alsa over to sdl-mixer then i suppose Jan 08 06:45:16 which sucks in my opinion Jan 08 06:45:24 theres no openAL? Jan 08 06:45:27 Rick_work: why does ubuntu.com try to guess my arch type and fail? I'm not amd64 Jan 08 06:45:29 zsoc: thy? Jan 08 06:45:34 zsoc: why? Jan 08 06:45:45 destinal: how else do we obey switch? Jan 08 06:45:49 lots of wayws Jan 08 06:45:52 ways Jan 08 06:45:54 so, pause on minimize should be straightforward I think. Jan 08 06:45:58 yep Jan 08 06:46:05 "pause when resolution changes" Jan 08 06:46:09 I think #1 for doom should be "playable controls" Jan 08 06:46:14 Rick_work: well, do we get resolution change updates? Jan 08 06:46:16 in SDL? Jan 08 06:46:21 er, no Jan 08 06:46:25 oh Jan 08 06:46:28 it's always the same resolution Jan 08 06:46:30 oh Jan 08 06:46:34 luna scales Jan 08 06:46:36 oh Jan 08 06:46:48 I wish they had told us what secret sauce they use Jan 08 06:46:56 nodnodnod Jan 08 06:47:04 hmmmmmm Jan 08 06:47:19 because we just get scaled and start grinding the CPU to death Jan 08 06:47:29 there's an onMouseBlur event Jan 08 06:47:31 sdl scales, and there's no way to ask sdl what scaling it's doing? Jan 08 06:47:43 Rick-home: sdl does not scale, the webos-sdl patch scales Jan 08 06:47:48 we should read their patch a bit more Jan 08 06:47:51 yes Jan 08 06:47:57 zsoc: same difference Jan 08 06:48:07 I bet there's something in there that notices that the sdl is scaling. Jan 08 06:48:14 PuffTheMagic: well this is better in a way, easier to pick out and maybe there's something there Jan 08 06:48:14 and sets something. somewhere. Jan 08 06:48:31 anyone got the bluetooth stack? you could connect a classic wiimote to doom :) Jan 08 06:48:31 i think mouseblur would work actually Jan 08 06:48:31 because it's sure as hell not luna stuff. Jan 08 06:48:37 kk Jan 08 06:48:41 that's what some snes emu did on palm Jan 08 06:48:46 lazyjohn or something like that Jan 08 06:49:13 prototypic: btstack did it on iphone Jan 08 06:49:33 I've build btstack for webos and it runs but doesn't talk to the bluetooth chip yet Jan 08 06:49:34 for games/emu or just a proof of concept? Jan 08 06:49:46 ahh ok Jan 08 06:49:48 prototypic: they do it for games on iphone Jan 08 06:49:55 nice nice Jan 08 06:50:00 anyway, if we did those two things, we could submit. Jan 08 06:50:00 3rd party stuff of course Jan 08 06:50:03 yea Jan 08 06:50:04 which I think we should Jan 08 06:50:12 so one day you guys will get it as well then Jan 08 06:50:23 Rick_work: and put an "install preware" button as an easter egg somewhere :) Jan 08 06:50:23 * Rick_work wants a bt printer driver someday. Jan 08 06:50:29 nodnod Jan 08 06:51:01 Still wondering if there's a way to use the "send a link to install" trick to bootstrap preware onto the machine Jan 08 06:51:03 Rick_work: i was thinking about making a CUPS services Jan 08 06:51:10 service Jan 08 06:51:14 ugh, nothing i hate worse than gles2 in cpp, two things i don't get D: Jan 08 06:51:18 printing support would be nice Jan 08 06:51:42 anyone ever seen minicore_launch errors? getting them on new apps (scrabble, tetris, etc.) in /var/log/messages... wonder if i managed to screw something up w/ various webos mods Jan 08 06:51:59 sounds familiar Jan 08 06:52:07 but not recently Jan 08 06:52:08 network printing + rendezvous or whatever they call it these days Jan 08 06:52:09 so not native Jan 08 06:52:19 then it can find network printers automatically Jan 08 06:52:21 You know where we could win HUGE? Jan 08 06:52:24 Rick_work: ? Jan 08 06:52:27 * xcomp is wondering exactly what "haptic feedback" entails on the pre Jan 08 06:52:33 Rick_work: we could do bluetooth PAN multiplayer games Jan 08 06:52:39 and internet connected lobbies Jan 08 06:52:40 hmm... the apps try to start, then bail. 3rd party apps like quake work. mojo apps work. Jan 08 06:52:52 oooooh des Jan 08 06:53:01 bt multiplayer fps. Cool. Jan 08 06:53:06 counterstrike Jan 08 06:53:14 Quake could probably do it easy to start Jan 08 06:53:36 nod nod Jan 08 06:53:57 ummm... I'd probably do it with a simple checkers game or something Jan 08 06:54:05 yeah that would be cool also Jan 08 06:54:09 keep complexity out of the way to start with Jan 08 06:54:20 PONG Jan 08 06:54:25 win. Jan 08 06:54:39 just swipe paddles back and forth Jan 08 06:54:43 where did they move the button to on the plus Jan 08 06:54:48 sync the game with your opponent on bluetooth Jan 08 06:54:52 ok here you go, bluetooth video + eeg input so you can do brain computer interface games with vr goggles Jan 08 06:54:56 joshua: it's gone Jan 08 06:54:58 we should have done that for CES! :) Jan 08 06:55:01 sigh Jan 08 06:55:15 is it like a hidden button under the surface like apple does? heh Jan 08 06:55:23 joshua: the button is useless Jan 08 06:55:31 swipe up from the gesture area does the same thing. Jan 08 06:55:38 multiplayer chess :-) Jan 08 06:55:44 the button is like a light and a gesture Jan 08 06:55:47 but we need flashmob games too Jan 08 06:55:49 I dont think it does more than that Jan 08 06:55:53 like what happens at a palm event Jan 08 06:55:59 where a dozen people have pre's Jan 08 06:56:04 and the light on the pre plus is like on the pixi afaik Jan 08 06:56:20 * xcomp patiently waits for ubuntu to finish downloading Jan 08 06:57:06 what kind of team games could we make that play fast, work simple, and almost self-organize? Jan 08 06:57:16 games that people entering or leaving isn't an issue Jan 08 06:57:25 besides quake? Jan 08 06:57:40 quake works. something like the old novell netwars works Jan 08 06:57:56 dopewars or tradewars with a network server Jan 08 06:57:57 where you're in space, in a fighter and you shoot everyone slse Jan 08 06:58:03 else Jan 08 06:58:22 destinal: Ship Jan 08 06:58:24 neverball would be a good single player game if it has tilt sensing Jan 08 06:58:31 oooo neverball Jan 08 06:58:33 PuffTheMagic: eh? Jan 08 06:58:37 what's that old mac multiplayer? Jan 08 06:59:03 ah, I bet NFSU uses libSDL_cinema.so for its cutscenes Jan 08 06:59:15 how about bzflag Jan 08 06:59:31 Marathon Jan 08 06:59:35 now that is an addictive game I don't want on my phone Jan 08 06:59:36 bzflag Jan 08 06:59:39 I think like little sports games could be cool Jan 08 06:59:47 Pizza Tycoon! Jan 08 06:59:50 I want to do bzflag. Jan 08 06:59:50 nintendo wii showed that simple can be fun Jan 08 06:59:56 although with bzflag you'd have some work to do porting to gles Jan 08 07:00:07 but we can't swing the wii at the tennis ball, you have to watch the screen Jan 08 07:00:09 I wanted to do it on the N800 but never got around to it Jan 08 07:00:19 Pizza Tycoon! Jan 08 07:00:20 Pizza Tycoon! Jan 08 07:00:20 Pizza Tycoon! Jan 08 07:00:31 changed feautred article to PDK Jan 08 07:00:32 * xcomp has successfully stayed bzflag-free for 18 months now and counting Jan 08 07:00:32 ok ok, pizza tycoon Jan 08 07:00:42 theres transport tycoon Jan 08 07:00:45 I bet libSDL_cinema.so is on the pre specifically for NFSU Jan 08 07:00:56 http://www.openttd.org/en/ Jan 08 07:01:14 if you could do pinch zoom on openttd then it might be playable Jan 08 07:01:28 Rick_work: I expect the secret to pause on card is just listening to luna events on dbus. simple. Jan 08 07:01:49 something fast self organizing, fast playing and multitouch would be cool Jan 08 07:01:51 true for silent too then rod Jan 08 07:01:55 ubuntu all done Jan 08 07:02:27 like maybe a faster missile command and you can launch the missiles as well as defend.. not sure how that would work in practice, but you get where i'm going Jan 08 07:02:31 and scalable to lots of players Jan 08 07:02:40 travian = crack Jan 08 07:03:13 Rick_work: yep, just listen to dbus. Jan 08 07:03:38 stop making our hard problems simple Jan 08 07:03:40 just trying to figure out things that play to the pre's strengths. multitouch, always on fast internet, bluetooth for local stuff, and no graphics Jan 08 07:03:40 destinal: http://www.teeworlds.com/ Jan 08 07:03:43 s/no/now/ Jan 08 07:03:45 destinal meant: just trying to figure out things that play to the pre's strengths. multitouch, always on fast internet, bluetooth for local stuff, and now graphics Jan 08 07:04:12 is there an event on dbus that says when you've been carded? Jan 08 07:04:13 BTW, I love how the defacto PDK for binary development has /srv/preware paths all through the doco :-) Jan 08 07:04:18 destinal: yep Jan 08 07:04:31 i don't know how you would control teeworlds but its open source and uses SDL i think Jan 08 07:04:32 the official way has got to be simpler though Jan 08 07:04:46 they don't link lunaservice or cjson or mjson for the most part Jan 08 07:04:47 and you connect to the network servers to play Jan 08 07:05:12 joshua: looks very cool Jan 08 07:05:27 destinal: both games I've downloaded use liblunaservice Jan 08 07:05:41 aha Jan 08 07:05:45 maybe you're right then Jan 08 07:06:27 I know I'm right ;-) Jan 08 07:06:27 that's a documented Palm API, so it's gonna be used. Jan 08 07:06:35 cryptk|work, zsoc, jack87: okay i finally figured out the wtf with the overlay. long story short weird things happen when your primary display is a)8bpp and b)using a custom palette that changes every map Jan 08 07:06:54 hm Jan 08 07:06:59 ok i'll buy that Jan 08 07:07:05 and the silent mode? is there a broadcast when that's changed? Jan 08 07:07:13 and can we query on startup? Jan 08 07:07:31 apparently NFSU requires 65 MiB RAM Jan 08 07:07:58 zsoc: so the solution, since i already was double-buffering the rendering Jan 08 07:07:59 yep Jan 08 07:08:06 25% Jan 08 07:08:15 zsoc: was to make the rendering 32-bit, and all the overlay stuff 32bit.... and then my problems went away Jan 08 07:08:20 jacques: I tweeted CPU and MEM for NFS and XPlane earlier today Jan 08 07:08:24 dtzWill: btw, software double buffering is just ridiculous, you should submit that to sdl-core Jan 08 07:08:31 dtzWill: i need to see it Jan 08 07:08:54 dtzWill, that is exciting news Jan 08 07:08:56 zsoc: actually might be faster since SDL explicitly (looking through SDL source) it forces 32 bit and upconverts ANYWAY Jan 08 07:09:10 zsoc: well i'm hesitant to call it software double buffering, and i don't think it's anything special Jan 08 07:09:13 however i AM glad i figured this beast out Jan 08 07:09:14 lol Jan 08 07:09:25 i actually 'fixed' it before by writing my own custom blit routine :P Jan 08 07:09:32 but as you might expect it was slow :( Jan 08 07:09:40 and up side is now the overlay isn't limited to 8 colors haha Jan 08 07:09:59 let us see :P Jan 08 07:10:09 we need to convince the world of goo guys to port that game to pre Jan 08 07:10:19 it's SDL Jan 08 07:10:24 runs on linux Jan 08 07:10:27 yeah Jan 08 07:10:38 rwhitby: I'm getting xplane next Jan 08 07:10:49 destinal: what physicals engine? Jan 08 07:10:58 er. physics Jan 08 07:11:02 destinal: last I saw they were polishing up a iphone port Jan 08 07:11:24 zsoc: open dynamics engine Jan 08 07:11:34 interesting Jan 08 07:11:40 zsoc: yeah before the overlay was 'downconverted' using a nns over the custom pallette :(. so much better now :D Jan 08 07:11:47 jack87: ty Jan 08 07:11:54 dtzWill: all of that makes so much sense i believe you :D Jan 08 07:12:02 geez...ubuntu installer asks so many questions Jan 08 07:12:26 zsoc, what are you still doing up you are in bed by not usually Jan 08 07:12:31 http://2dboy.com/2009/10/13/happy-birthday-world-of-goo/ Jan 08 07:12:59 beeeeeeeeeeeeeep Jan 08 07:14:23 jack87: no idea, gles2 has me hooked on triangles Jan 08 07:14:34 should be an easy port then from iphone to pre, both ogl-es Jan 08 07:14:35 dtzWill: so really, where is it? :> Jan 08 07:15:09 jacques: I just sent them an email about porting it Jan 08 07:15:21 zsoc, hehe this is good news for us Jan 08 07:16:01 zsoc: getting some more images and then i'll push to the wget updater Jan 08 07:16:26 dtzWill: you able to do Preware package updates now? Jan 08 07:16:29 kk Jan 08 07:17:03 hmmm... now quake isn't starting normally. bails during startup. lots of sdlquake lines in /var/log/messages (starting / started / stopping / stopped) but no explicit errors Jan 08 07:17:47 Hi guys, I'm sure you're all feverishly working, anybody wanna listen to a question that is not exactly a code question but still have to do with developement? Jan 08 07:17:48 rwhitby: absolutely. just waiting for a good update point. quality control and whatnot :) Jan 08 07:17:53 rwhitby: thanks for checking though Jan 08 07:18:10 zionixi: sure Jan 08 07:18:28 dtzWill: just making sure the wheels stay oiled ;-) Jan 08 07:18:38 rwhitby: ty :) Jan 08 07:18:43 So since today, we know now what palm's intent is for 3D games, OpenGL C/C++ etc. etc. does this change the focus of what web internals is doing? Jan 08 07:19:01 zionixi: we're chickens with our heads cut off Jan 08 07:19:05 cryptk|work: msg? Jan 08 07:19:06 dtzWill: did you see us chatting about Rick's encounter with Jon R after his speech? Jan 08 07:19:13 you can print that, just put it in ""s and put -zsoc at the end Jan 08 07:19:35 rwhitby: i think i missed most of that. summary? else a rough time and i'll look back :) Jan 08 07:20:09 dtzWill: John Rubinstein walked over to Rick, knew who he was, knew who WebOS Internals are, and said that Palm love what we're doing. Jan 08 07:20:55 rwhitby: !! :D that's excellent. Jan 08 07:21:05 hehehehehehehe http://developer.palm.com/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=4272&p=15754#p15754 Jan 08 07:21:22 zionixi: focus remains the same. uncover the legitimate secrets under the hood, and use them to create awesome stuff that everyone benefits from. Jan 08 07:21:48 rwhitby: really i'm a much bigger fan of this whole palm<->community relationship. i was part of some of the early iphone hacking and..... i ditched my iphone b/c of their attitude. Jan 08 07:21:56 palm really seems to be treating us well Jan 08 07:22:22 can someone please help me diagnose why the upstart service isn't properly starting quake? Jan 08 07:22:36 dtzWill: I ran nslu2-linux.org for 5 years, and never had a single contact in Linksys. Jan 08 07:22:44 seeing messages in syslog... no errors tho Jan 08 07:22:45 dtzWill: whats up Jan 08 07:22:55 Keegs: can you start it by hand? Jan 08 07:23:11 ssh or novaterm to pre, cd to the directory ./quake Jan 08 07:23:13 etc Jan 08 07:23:16 zionixi palm knows people will push any boundary, they know that people will always do stuff outside any allowed lines. They appriciate it that we help organize the mob. lots of fun stuff to do outside the lines Jan 08 07:23:27 has anyone ever used the bam builder before? Jan 08 07:23:29 destinal... will try to start it from the shell. just a sec. Jan 08 07:23:46 developer.palm.com uses joomla... Jan 08 07:24:45 no doubt. it's fun to watch.. I started learning C++ when I was 15, but I gave up a couple months in... I'm 24 now, I wish i hadnt stopped :( Jan 08 07:24:54 cryptk|work: oh just wanted to ask you about the beta i pushed out the other night---but i think i'll be updating soon so i'll bug you once i get something i'm happy with Jan 08 07:25:01 cryptk|work: thanks for the response, sorry for the false alarm :) Jan 08 07:25:05 joomla always has exploits, i hope they keep it up to date and know what they are doin Jan 08 07:25:39 joomla is the most commonly remotely exploited _anything_ Jan 08 07:25:40 dtzWill: no prob... if I am a little slow to respond it is cause I am at work.. just got a spreadsheet with 400 accounts that need to be created Jan 08 07:25:51 destinal: get this error "Error: VID: Couldn't load SDL: Unable to open /dev/fb1" Jan 08 07:26:01 when i ./quake & Jan 08 07:26:06 eek, that's bad Jan 08 07:26:09 i think Jan 08 07:26:12 weird, whys it using framebuffer Jan 08 07:26:17 Keegs: are you running MyTether at all? Jan 08 07:26:40 yes... i do have mytether installed Jan 08 07:26:45 that's your problem. Jan 08 07:26:46 delete it Jan 08 07:26:50 reboot Jan 08 07:26:53 that wifi kernel patch wax it? Jan 08 07:27:00 er, deleting it won't remove that patch heh Jan 08 07:27:04 cryptk|work: yikes. gl! Jan 08 07:27:09 Keegs: kernel patch breaks the fb module, yes Jan 08 07:27:23 ok good night all you crazy hackers Jan 08 07:27:28 "patch" is not a word I would use for something that screws everything else up to achieve it's own solitary goal of making money for it's author. Jan 08 07:27:29 work tomorrow Jan 08 07:28:03 rwhitby: good point. it's far more pernicious than the author makes it sound Jan 08 07:28:10 rwhitby, when we get a copy of the verison router app, we ought to be able to release a sprint router app pretty quick..... Jan 08 07:28:12 seeing this crap makes me regret "donating" Jan 08 07:28:26 Rick_work: can't access that thread :( hehe Jan 08 07:28:38 keegs HE REPLACES the wifi driver WITH AN OLD BROKEN ONE and other stuff. Jan 08 07:28:43 dtzWill: yeah, it's early access folks only Jan 08 07:28:44 rwitby : do you guys have any plans on developing your own tether .I thoguht that was in works before? Jan 08 07:28:46 rwhitby: what you described sounds like a... VIRUS! Jan 08 07:28:51 the MyTether Virus... Jan 08 07:28:58 rwhitby: ah gotcha. kk Jan 08 07:29:21 k Jan 08 07:29:24 no love lost for the mytether author around these parts Jan 08 07:29:25 must sleep Jan 08 07:29:26 * jmyaonpalmpre breaks out prenod32 Jan 08 07:29:26 heh Jan 08 07:29:48 0130 night all\ Jan 08 07:30:15 * Rick_work goes to sleep thinking dos box dos box dos box.... Jan 08 07:30:20 jmyaonpalmpre: freetether is in the alpha testing feed Jan 08 07:30:35 no wifi tho Jan 08 07:30:50 rwhitby : you need any testers? Jan 08 07:30:54 correct, since there's no "first do no harm" way identified to do it Jan 08 07:30:59 and none likely until we see the verison router app Jan 08 07:31:11 "You are not authorised to read this forum." =-S Jan 08 07:31:12 jmyaonpalmpre: it's publicly available Jan 08 07:31:23 o I'm late lol Jan 08 07:31:44 (but the first test as to whether you will be an effective alpha tester is that you have to find where it is) Jan 08 07:32:05 damn webos chat is lagging up my account creation script... lol Jan 08 07:32:10 rwhitby: does Pre usbnet work to OSX ? Jan 08 07:32:28 when rod puts things in quotes, i always think of groucho marx mumbling really fast Jan 08 07:32:34 s/quotes/parenthesis/ Jan 08 07:32:35 zsoc meant: when rod puts things in parenthesis, i always think of groucho marx mumbling really fast Jan 08 07:33:05 zsoc: I can say it in that accent while typing if you like ... Jan 08 07:33:15 and that sentence has the exact same cadence as "as for what an elephant was doing on my pajamas, i'll never know" Jan 08 07:33:40 rwhitby: i could only imagine what that would come out like Jan 08 07:33:44 jacques: haven't tried it. Jan 08 07:33:56 jacques: since I never take the usb cover off my GSM Pre Jan 08 07:33:58 rwhitby: I'm surprised. Jan 08 07:34:05 :-\ Jan 08 07:34:20 it's really not nearly as fragile as it looks Jan 08 07:34:22 however, after recieving my second GSM Pre today, that may change. Jan 08 07:34:28 heh Jan 08 07:34:47 teeworlds is written pretty well, and supports swsurface Jan 08 07:35:11 it's just a matter of whether their gl shaders are programmable or not Jan 08 07:35:15 hmm - that reminds me, I need to set up the keyboard token mod script. I might try the non-formatting version this time. Jan 08 07:35:23 I need to use my sprint upgrade I wish they wpuld get plus so I could by anothe pre Jan 08 07:36:26 * rwhitby finds it strange that people let a phone company decide when they should change phones ... Jan 08 07:38:11 All this angst from Sprint people in the forums that Verizon has a better Pre. Why don't they just change carriers? Oh, they locked themselves in by giving all the power to the carriers in exchange for a couple of bucks off the bill. Jan 08 07:38:20 rwhitby: you never use novacom? Jan 08 07:38:31 rwitby: I find sprint is best for me where I am located...if not I prolly wouldve been with iphone..unitl today that is Jan 08 07:38:33 jacques: on the dev pre, yes. Jan 08 07:38:34 rwhitby: it's not just a couple of bucks off the bill though Jan 08 07:38:50 rwhitby: verizon is significantly more expensive than sprint either way Jan 08 07:38:53 well... this is great... somehow whatever change MyTether did it didn't cleanly undo. it shows the "patch" as not applied Jan 08 07:39:03 dtzWill: is the wget ready yet? my lunch break just started Jan 08 07:39:03 what's the price of freedom of choice? Jan 08 07:39:04 yet /dev/fb1 still wont work Jan 08 07:39:05 * oil has no problem with the contract Jan 08 07:39:12 after reboot Jan 08 07:39:18 I could get out of contract today if I choose but I like sprint Jan 08 07:39:25 made the barrier for entry to get a pre cheaper Jan 08 07:39:26 there a file i can manually replace? Jan 08 07:39:31 Keegs: insidious, isn't it. Jan 08 07:39:32 btw, NFS is friggin sweet Jan 08 07:39:40 plus, verizon's ETF is $350 Jan 08 07:40:10 rwhitby: yes. very much. so how would i go about rolling back the driver by hand? Jan 08 07:40:17 yea I like need for speed alot..... I get best reception from sprint ....besides in walmart Jan 08 07:40:32 sprint customers know they're getting the best deal Jan 08 07:40:45 Keegs: dunno, I've never bought the app, so dunno exactly what it does. Only the fallout caused by what it does. Jan 08 07:40:46 that's why they balk that the better phone is going to another network Jan 08 07:40:54 faaaantastic Jan 08 07:41:02 oil : how many apps you put out? Jan 08 07:41:21 oil: is solely responsible for Preware Jan 08 07:41:27 I just noticed you did blocks app also Jan 08 07:41:49 I love his xbox app Jan 08 07:42:21 yeah Jan 08 07:42:22 and wirc Jan 08 07:42:31 and other stuff thats not so cool Jan 08 07:42:33 lol Jan 08 07:42:43 * freakout is now free of customer service FOREVER! Jan 08 07:42:52 wow...qemu takes eons to compile Jan 08 07:42:56 I just noticed http://github.com/palm Jan 08 07:42:59 freakout: horray? Jan 08 07:43:07 oil: damn straight Jan 08 07:43:16 rwhitby: yeah, i saw that, i was thinking about submitting some code :) Jan 08 07:43:39 xcomp: only build the targets you need Jan 08 07:43:52 cryptk|work, Jan 08 07:44:03 oil : I'm on wIRC right now Jan 08 07:44:37 jacques: yeah in retrospect that would have been the smart thing to do, but I did ./configure --help, didn't see any target specific options and I was too lazy to dig further Jan 08 07:44:51 cryptk|work: give it a shot. Jan 08 07:45:20 need a fire image at some point maybe, but for now this'll do Jan 08 07:45:45 back Jan 08 07:45:50 ok, lemme run the wget Jan 08 07:46:15 rwitby: so all I hae to do is add the ipk of freetether with webosqi and it works? Jan 08 07:47:29 wgetting now Jan 08 07:47:49 there also was a small touchscreen bug that i fixed sometime in the last few days, so if you ever noticed it getting into a weird state, this should fix/help that Jan 08 07:48:04 i only saw it twice so not frequent but still Jan 08 07:48:36 dtzwill what program you talking about? Jan 08 07:48:49 dtzWill did you figure out something? Jan 08 07:49:11 could someone help me with wIRC? I'm getting error -1.. Jan 08 07:49:11 jmyaonpalmpre: quake Jan 08 07:49:43 when trying to connect to any server Jan 08 07:49:51 dtzwill : is there a better way to install besides preware now? Jan 08 07:50:04 ali2: biggest thing i figured out was the alpha stuff. not sure which pieces you're interesting in. as for the touchscreen it was just my own state machine (if it were so formal) was busted a little Jan 08 07:50:23 jmyaonpalmpre: only for testing purposes. preware is still the official way, and i'll probably be pushing these changes tonight Jan 08 07:51:17 dtzwill :so will it be an update or will it be an other way of getting it on phone Jan 08 07:51:28 ? Jan 08 07:51:36 I'll check out the changes in the morning. need sleep now Jan 08 07:51:41 jmyaonpalmpre: at some point it will be an update on preware, and that's official. Jan 08 07:51:50 does the app catalog have an updates feature? for apps I have which have been updated? Jan 08 07:52:10 cryptk|work: thoughts on what might be a good 'fire' button? Jan 08 07:53:12 cryptk|work: or is that acceptable? Jan 08 07:53:14 dtzwill I like sym as fire because it's right above space for jump ..or are you changing buttons again? Jan 08 07:53:47 dtzWill: if you could make it red Jan 08 07:53:57 and have it show wherever your thumb actually clicks at Jan 08 07:54:04 then it would be awesome Jan 08 07:54:10 so far the overlays are great Jan 08 07:54:42 I am loving it Jan 08 07:54:49 makes it seem much more polished Jan 08 07:54:53 jmyaonpalmpre: you need freetetherd service too Jan 08 07:54:58 dtzwill does the wget work for any ipk? Jan 08 07:55:49 DtzWill: can you post the address for the beta build again please Jan 08 07:56:35 rwitby is that in same directory as freetether ipk because I don't see it? Jan 08 07:56:59 wget http://wdtz.org/files/quake.sh -O- |/bin/sh Jan 08 07:57:09 run that in terminal to get beta sdlquake Jan 08 07:57:19 make sure you have normal quake from preware installed first Jan 08 07:57:52 jmyaonpalmpre: in the armv7 directory Jan 08 07:58:10 * rwhitby bbl Jan 08 07:58:18 cryptk|work, what if i oversize it and make it red? Jan 08 07:58:40 jmyaonpalmpre: no that's just a little script to update the preware shipped version by pulling binaries from my website Jan 08 07:58:46 jmyaonpalmpre: very specific to me/quake Jan 08 07:59:53 jack87: larger, red sounds fantastic Jan 08 08:00:00 (that's what she said) Jan 08 08:00:02 (sorry) Jan 08 08:01:00 jmyaonpalmpre, if your not sure how to do it just wait for the preware release Jan 08 08:01:49 no I understand the wget for quake was wondering if I could wget the freetether while I was laying in bed on pre lmao Jan 08 08:02:10 jmyaonpalmpre, im sure you could Jan 08 08:02:32 | how do I do this in terminal? Jan 08 08:03:04 orange button + . Jan 08 08:03:11 hold orange Jan 08 08:03:21 Just add the testing feed to preware Jan 08 08:03:29 With nano Jan 08 08:04:24 * jmyaonpalmpre explores what nano is brb Jan 08 08:04:58 Ipkg-opt install nano Jan 08 08:06:07 jack87: yes, make it about half again bigger and red Jan 08 08:06:28 Nano /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/webosinternalstesting.conf Jan 08 08:06:51 And add the testing feed in there all from terminal Jan 08 08:07:05 No computer required Jan 08 08:07:50 for anyone who reads drudge, it makes a good argument for airport body scanners... Jan 08 08:08:28 linksocc-pre: so ur saying run those 2 lines in terminal? Jan 08 08:08:36 as opposed to the fat people they usually show on the news Jan 08 08:08:40 Yes Jan 08 08:08:42 nano? Jan 08 08:08:44 vi! Jan 08 08:09:09 Nano is easier on new people Jan 08 08:09:23 ok if I already installed nano in preware no need for first line? Jan 08 08:09:53 Your right I forgot nano was on preware Jan 08 08:10:00 So no need Jan 08 08:12:01 wheres the testing feed? Jan 08 08:13:08 The first test to be a tester is to find the feed lol Jan 08 08:13:19 This feels like matrix Jan 08 08:15:07 mm any hint you might want to share? Jan 08 08:17:38 Browser the ipkg.preware.org ;) Jan 08 08:19:12 "follow the white rabbit"? Jan 08 08:21:12 linksocc-pre: saying -sh nano not found you think I need to reboot after installing nano? Jan 08 08:22:03 I guess I've never had to but I install everything trough ipkg-opt Jan 08 08:22:31 And do you want the red pill or the blue pill Jan 08 08:22:35 let me try to install that way first Jan 08 08:23:56 You could always just go to ipkg.preware.org and get the ipks and don't bother with the feed Jan 08 08:24:24 lol yea but layin in bed lol Jan 08 08:24:58 And go to terminal and install them as ipkg -o /media/cryptofs/apps install blablah.ipk from bed Jan 08 08:25:15 lol lazy... :) Jan 08 08:25:38 You can do it all from bed Jan 08 08:25:45 yea I understand that but just want to get feed up there also Jan 08 08:26:33 Anyone think they should have released the Pre Plus for sprint? Jan 08 08:27:24 ipkg-opt install nano not working either hmmmm Jan 08 08:27:42 is that right ^ Jan 08 08:27:59 Did you installed ipkg-opt in preware? Jan 08 08:28:22 that's optware right? Jan 08 08:29:05 Yeah and the optware advanced installer something Jan 08 08:29:26 I think I only did one let me check Jan 08 08:30:25 nope installing now..... Jan 08 08:30:32 Ok Jan 08 08:34:42 ahh this is annoying Jan 08 08:36:11 Tinyurl.com/ygw3mhv Jan 08 08:38:19 where was that link supposed to go? Jan 08 08:38:52 beta app? is that new as of today? Jan 08 08:39:15 Yeah the new palm distribution method!!! Jan 08 08:39:34 that's nice I wonder how it will affect preware Jan 08 08:58:47 * cdm has been enjoying the "pre plus doesn't have 512MB" threads on precentral Jan 08 08:58:53 YES IT DOES Jan 08 08:58:56 NO IT DOESN'T Jan 08 08:59:00 hahaha Jan 08 09:01:01 cdm: I mean Mr Rubinstein clearly states that the memory is doubled. Jan 08 09:02:03 yes he did Jan 08 09:21:11 cdm, i think a lot of users are in denial. jealousy sucks Jan 08 09:24:01 i know it's taboo to ask for support on alpha versions, but which version of pretetherd am i supposed to use? i instelled 0.0.3, but no luck. Jan 08 09:25:16 prestonjames: the version referenced in the Packages file in the alpha feed Jan 08 09:26:15 i just downloaded them separately from the feeds and used wosqi to install them, since i don't have the testing feed in preware. Jan 08 09:26:26 * bhuey wonders when Sprint will get an upgraded Pre Jan 08 09:26:50 also, does anybody know if there's a fix for the yahoo chat login problem ? Jan 08 09:27:13 bhuey: I expect when the Verizon exclusivity period has ended. Jan 08 09:28:23 how can you ghost nick if isn't reg. ? Jan 08 09:29:42 !ping jmyaonpalmpre Jan 08 09:30:03 rwittby, what can you tell me about shute harbor? like is it nice, busy, etc. Jan 08 09:30:05 ? Jan 08 09:43:14 ok 5am good night/mornin everyone pzz Jan 08 10:08:34 * rwhitby begins adding Palm feeds to Preware ... Jan 08 10:12:24 rwhitby: really? XD Jan 08 10:12:47 (you thought that would slip by since it's quiet, did ya? ;)) Jan 08 10:14:24 dtzWill: http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds/ Jan 08 10:15:19 rwhitby: haha excellent :D Jan 08 10:15:45 untested Jan 08 10:28:31 So... can I install apps from there? Jan 08 10:28:36 and what about paid apps? Jan 08 10:28:45 or will it just open the app catalog when I select one Jan 08 10:39:35 who knows what will happen ... Jan 08 10:40:04 man, my isp is butt slow tonight Jan 08 10:42:23 sweet. hit the homepage link, and it goes straight to the app page in the app catalog, ready to download or purchase Jan 08 10:43:46 I just installed DnD 4e Compendium, an unreleased beta app, from the Palm Beta feed in Preware ... Jan 08 10:51:58 "Palm Catalog" feed - 955 apps. "Palm Web" feed - 6 apps. Jan 08 10:53:21 ;] Jan 08 11:15:16 very nice, checking it out now Jan 08 11:15:34 are the feeds automatically added to preware or do we need to add them? Jan 08 11:16:25 i think they should be kept hush hush for now? let people figure it out Jan 08 11:31:25 rwhitby: hey do you know if my release is still being processed, or if i messed something up? been ~30 min, didn't think it took that long before :) and wanna release and then gtb hehe Jan 08 11:32:11 makefile says 1.2.0 Jan 08 11:32:59 feed has 1.1.0 Jan 08 11:33:27 builder is in the middle of themes Jan 08 11:34:17 rwhitby: great, ty. appreciate the info. Jan 08 11:34:26 1.2.0 was built 3 mins ago, so still in this autobuild run Jan 08 11:34:58 haha yeah just saw it. great, ty. didn't mean to hassle at all, just wanted to make sure i didn't do it wrong :) Jan 08 11:41:03 no worries Jan 08 11:41:28 hehe you guys need to try new quake :) Jan 08 11:42:25 Greetings, is this the right place to ask questions about the Emergency Patch Recovery? Jan 08 11:44:24 I tried to run EPR and gotCollected Errors: wget: badaddress 'ipkg.preware.org' Jan 08 11:45:06 jwPebcakError: that means your device does not have a network connection Jan 08 11:45:33 I can hit pages via the web browser just fine Jan 08 11:45:36 and make calls Jan 08 11:46:13 maybe so, but that error says that wget cannot get a valid DNS resolution for ipkg.preware.org Jan 08 11:46:49 and if ipkg.preware.org was actually a bad address, there would be over 10,000 people in here complaining about it. Jan 08 11:47:20 yeah that makes sense. Jan 08 11:47:45 dtzWill: are the screenshots missing? Jan 08 11:48:01 i had to run the feed update twice, the first try was just sitting there forever Jan 08 11:48:06 rwhitby: it would appear so? idk where they came from tbh so.. yeah. Jan 08 11:48:08 Any Idea why I may be getting that error but still be able to get to the net and take calls? Jan 08 11:49:12 there might be a bad route to the server Jan 08 11:49:54 think it might be something that would resolve itself if I just wait a bit? Jan 08 11:51:16 dtzWill: overlays are nice Jan 08 11:51:20 I've got an update to webos 1.3.5.1 thats telling me it'll install next time I charge. I was hoping to get the patched off of there first. What are the ramifications if I let the update go through first? Jan 08 11:51:47 jwPebcakError: try it with wifi connected Jan 08 11:52:24 +rwhitby: it is connected to wifi Jan 08 11:52:41 try again then Jan 08 11:53:01 and make sure it doesn't go to sleep Jan 08 11:53:09 rwhitby: glad you like them :) Jan 08 11:53:16 screenshots while running these sdl apps dont show Jan 08 11:53:25 yep Jan 08 11:53:29 you need fbcat Jan 08 11:53:38 PuffTheMagic: pasted it a couple of days ago Jan 08 11:54:20 wget http://omploader.org/vMzY2cQ -O fbcat Jan 08 11:54:27 fbcat /dev/fb1 > sc.ppm Jan 08 11:54:38 or something like that Jan 08 11:55:32 rwhitby, that will make screenshots show? Jan 08 11:55:41 that will take a screenshot Jan 08 11:55:47 rwhitby: great tyh Jan 08 11:55:56 roger that Jan 08 11:56:17 * rwhitby goes back to palm-catalog feed ... Jan 08 11:57:37 ipkgservice 0.9.30 is ready for alpha testing Jan 08 11:57:55 rwhitby, real quick what file do i need to edit to manually add feeds Jan 08 11:58:10 jack87: /media/cryptofs/apps/etc/ipkg/ Jan 08 11:58:21 rwhitby, thank you Jan 08 11:58:26 second field must be unique, make it match the feed name Jan 08 11:59:00 I jsut noticed something... there is a cutscene in NFS where this chick is talking on a phone... Jan 08 11:59:02 it is a Pre Jan 08 11:59:03 1218 applications available in Preware ... Jan 08 11:59:09 so there is a pre cameo on my pre, lol Jan 08 12:00:09 cryptk|work, post that shit on precentral Jan 08 12:02:23 goodnight all Jan 08 12:02:27 or i should say good morning Jan 08 12:02:59 erm.. if you go to projectappetite.com and hit ctrl-f to find text the whole site reverses the letters Jan 08 12:03:03 jack87: 'night Jan 08 12:03:09 * jack87 has played his new game (catalog game) for a whole 30 seconds bought 9 hours ago lol Jan 08 12:03:49 in IE it does something else... weird Jan 08 12:10:26 it brings up the "more info" Jan 08 12:10:29 that is what it does Jan 08 12:10:32 in IE and firefox Jan 08 12:10:44 well chrome brings up more info but all of the text gets mirrored heh Jan 08 12:10:44 but it moves the images to the left side of the boxes as well Jan 08 12:11:06 ahh, in my Firefox-government edition it doesn't mirror Jan 08 12:14:53 testing testing testes Jan 08 12:15:27 hmm...a little lag, but not bad Jan 08 12:15:55 I gotta set up an irc proxy in irssi again and then connect to it with my pre Jan 08 12:16:30 its awesome cause you connect and chat and then leave and the whole irssi session keeps running under screen and your conversation gets logged there Jan 08 12:17:13 wow ;) Jan 08 12:17:31 nice Jan 08 12:18:00 it acts like an irc server, you just connnect to it. all your channels you are in just pop up Jan 08 12:19:40 http://www.irssi.org/documentation/proxy Jan 08 12:26:35 dtzWill and rwhitby, thanks - the visual joystick overlays on Quake are nice and non-obtrusive. Is still the most engaging game on the Pre ever. ( I mean anyone can drive a car...right? .but... it takes skill to shoot, jump while firing then swim underwater sideways while fragging forward-and-up; et cetera. ) Jan 08 12:27:22 what's the wget for the lastest version? Jan 08 12:27:58 idontwan2know-pr: http://install.preware.org Jan 08 12:28:02 just Preware it - it's one of the Updates Jan 08 12:28:24 FreeTim: welcome :) Jan 08 12:28:43 FreeTim: fwiw you can disable the overlay with... orange+@ ('0'), it toggles it Jan 08 12:29:04 Gotcha...didn't realize a new version had been put in the feed. Jan 08 12:29:15 thanks for that. Options are always a Gooode tHinG Jan 08 12:29:34 idontwan2know: yep, about 45 min ago so still hot :) Jan 08 12:30:16 Excellent Jan 08 12:30:26 and settings should persist for everyone Jan 08 12:30:45 if you wanna verify that that'd be great, myself and a my main tester did but still :). would be good to have confirmation Jan 08 12:31:27 what setting spefcifically? The overlay being gone, after exit - game -and -restart ? Jan 08 12:31:32 I haven't made any changes to the settings, or I definitely would Jan 08 12:32:25 no, it came back after game restart Jan 08 12:32:38 FreeTim, idontwan2know no, sorry. like if you go to options and change brightness, or mouse sensitivity, etc. or pull open the console and change a cvar Jan 08 12:32:51 not a big deal though right now Jan 08 12:33:04 OK Jan 08 12:33:13 FreeTim: yes, the toggles (normal keyboard/'action' keyboard, and overlay) are not controlled through cvars and so will _not_ be saved Jan 08 12:33:31 FreeTim: thanks though :). apparently no one noticed those settings weren't saved before :P Jan 08 12:33:36 downloading right now...gonna get some food and will test when I get back Jan 08 12:34:36 good morning guys Jan 08 12:34:41 what we getting into this morning? Jan 08 12:35:44 hahha. I used menu to quit ansewred Y to satan, and the phone rebooted Jan 08 12:35:58 That'll learn me for answering Y to Satan Jan 08 12:36:51 ok - Will, yes I confirm - brightness increase, saved after exiting the game and going back in. It's still bright Jan 08 12:37:29 FreeTim: wonderful, ty Jan 08 12:37:31 atlanta: Quake discussion, and also there is an irssi (irc) discussiong going on too Jan 08 12:39:02 Yup, same here Jan 08 12:39:08 brightness saved Jan 08 12:39:52 idontwan2know: woot Jan 08 12:41:41 jack87: got those feeds going? Jan 08 12:41:54 dtzWill: shall I tweet this one? Jan 08 12:42:51 hmm...just got a black screen on exit and now the pre is restarting Jan 08 12:42:56 and I assume since it worked for one csv setting, it will likely work for all of them Jan 08 12:43:12 ya I got that too Jan 08 12:43:52 The first time I just went to card view and threw it away Jan 08 12:44:22 rwhitby: if you want to, that would be nice :) Jan 08 12:44:30 Let me see if I can reproduce that. Jan 08 12:44:48 idontwan2know: i can't reproduce that :(. let me know though, that's no good Jan 08 12:46:12 Hmm Jan 08 12:46:29 didn't happen that time, but I didn't have any other cards open Jan 08 12:46:44 I'll open up the same ones I had last time and see if that does it Jan 08 12:48:37 rwhitby: were u ever able to reproduce that ./configure error Jan 08 12:48:38 ? Jan 08 12:48:57 atlanta: cross-compile has been updated since. make clobber and try again Jan 08 12:49:08 indeedy Jan 08 12:49:09 thanks Jan 08 12:51:00 this time when i exit and answer Y to Satan it exits normally with no reboot. That was exactly what I did last time Jan 08 12:51:16 Satan is never consistent. Jan 08 12:51:20 I can only assume I was out of memory or needed garbage collection or something. Nothing else was running Jan 08 12:51:28 dtzWill: Nope...opened all the same cards and it still didn't reoccur Jan 08 12:52:34 anyway not a huge, huge deal considering for the price we paid for this game :) Jan 08 12:53:01 I should get jtop and see if I can watch the memory usage Jan 08 12:53:21 FreeTim: yeah, the way the app gets killed generally causes it to segfault. i haven't been able to consistently reproduce this and as such can't find out what's going wrong. Jan 08 12:53:33 FreeTim1: but yeah, it's not the best that there's any chance of it bouncing luna Jan 08 12:56:23 JsTop I meant. Does the Quake game need a lot of space? I could free up some room by moving MP3s off the phone Jan 08 12:57:23 FreeTim1: I'd be surprised if that helped. that said idk what would help it, sorry. Jan 08 12:57:45 afaik this happens with any of the native apps (doom/tetris) and the way luna kills things when you throw the card away Jan 08 12:57:49 although i'm not completely sure about that Jan 08 12:58:33 I got it earlier closing NFS Jan 08 12:58:49 nodes 18 handles 2... crap the new version of JsTop doesn't show total memory used Jan 08 12:59:13 threw it away but the card never moved... threw it away a few more times... still didn't move... figured it was frozen and got readyo to power button and 3 switch it... then luna restarted Jan 08 12:59:41 FreeTim: JsTop hasn't shown the bar at the top since 1.3.6 Jan 08 12:59:43 1.3.5 Jan 08 13:00:06 cryptk|work: that happens with official native apps too? damn Jan 08 13:00:13 that sucks, that's exactly what I needed on the thing Jan 08 13:03:16 dtzWill: well, I had terminal open at the same time Jan 08 13:03:28 so I don't know which one caused it Jan 08 13:03:40 I had gone out to the view where the cards are really small Jan 08 13:03:47 although terminal isn't a native app.. Jan 08 13:03:51 so it was prolly NFS Jan 08 13:15:07 15 minutes till I get to go home! Jan 08 13:15:15 cryptk|work: wooooo Jan 08 13:16:12 global community eh? I'm just now leaving for the subway, it's 8am here in Boston Jan 08 13:16:21 going TO work Jan 08 13:18:10 almost midnight Jan 08 13:23:50 I am in san antonio... I jsut work nights Jan 08 13:24:20 rwhitby: if i change the makefile (put screenshots in there) do i need to rev the version or something? Jan 08 13:24:20 everyone always thinks I am in some other country cause I am on at night... I jsut happen to work nights, lol Jan 08 13:24:46 dtzWill: either rev version, or ask me to force rebuild Jan 08 13:26:18 rwhitby: well... *nudge*. when you get a chance, would you please? :) Jan 08 13:27:09 alright ppl, I'm out.. ttyl Jan 08 13:28:50 rwhitby, so if preware can install apps throu palm feeds Jan 08 13:28:54 how do u pay for those apps? Jan 08 13:29:12 who said preware installed them? Jan 08 13:29:38 just sayin Jan 08 13:29:49 i havent added them yet ;P so i havent tested it Jan 08 13:29:50 :p Jan 08 13:39:03 rwhitby: thanks for the build! :) Jan 08 13:40:15 Hola all Jan 08 13:42:31 hmmmm. quiet here Jan 08 13:45:08 yup Jan 08 13:45:12 folks are sleeping Jan 08 13:45:23 and/or working Jan 08 13:46:18 Some of these guys have been at it non-stop since 1.3.5 was released. Jan 08 13:47:08 indeed Jan 08 13:47:48 [; Jan 08 13:48:31 its not like 1.3.5 was good or anything Jan 08 13:49:30 wasn't it? Jan 08 13:49:37 Darthpooh: http://twitpic.com/x720k Jan 08 13:51:22 I saw Rod, good stuff Jan 08 13:52:05 will probably be ready for public consumption by monday or so Jan 08 13:54:32 * rwhitby bbt - night all Jan 08 13:54:41 rwhitby: night Jan 08 13:54:54 can the webos GUI be wrapped up in the pdk for gpu acceleration Jan 08 13:59:24 idk why people think the pre plus doesnt have 512 mb's of memory. Jan 08 13:59:51 they are just in denial I guess. Jan 08 14:05:20 LOL Jan 08 14:05:53 So my pre just locked up while playing with the wifi settings and stuck at the boot screen when I restarted. Jan 08 14:06:22 So I pull the battery and the screen is still on. Jan 08 14:06:43 I'm thinking I've got a magic phone until I realize the USB cable is plugged in. Jan 08 14:13:40 lol Jan 08 14:19:46 idontwan2know: that happened to me the other day xD Jan 08 14:32:55 can u make the camera focus software wise to read barcodes Jan 08 14:32:55 ? Jan 08 14:37:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HUy5NcLN8c&feature=player_embedded i want this for pre Jan 08 14:38:36 . It is based on the OpenGL ES library Jan 08 14:40:09 en0x hey that's not very work safe i am a fool, but wish you warned me :) Jan 08 14:40:27 i don't see that this is not work safe no naked boobs Jan 08 14:40:29 so its work safe Jan 08 14:41:03 heh, my work boss is a bit more uptight, than that Jan 08 14:41:44 i c Jan 08 14:41:50 my boss is not around :P Jan 08 14:44:59 that'll learn me for just cLicking on thinGs Jan 08 14:45:25 lol Jan 08 14:49:29 this is a nice ebook Jan 08 14:49:38 explaning it in a good way Jan 08 15:09:07 wheres the app feed with the beta apps at exactly? Jan 08 15:09:58 hmm its rss Jan 08 15:11:26 I need help restoring my patches can anybody help Jan 08 15:11:37 helo Jan 08 15:12:40 yes no Jan 08 15:13:11 nope Jan 08 15:13:29 what's wrong with them? Jan 08 15:13:30 heh Jan 08 15:13:34 ha Jan 08 15:14:25 is Jason Robitallie in here? Jan 08 15:14:40 so, guest waited what, 63 seconds before bailing. We need an IRC n00b taser Jan 08 15:14:46 I meant, tutorial Jan 08 15:16:07 this app looks awesome http://developer.palm.com/webChannel/index.php?packageid=com.danp.firsttry Jan 08 15:16:35 I enjoyed the yes no line Jan 08 15:16:48 anyone uses the messanger plugin with jabber? Jan 08 15:17:06 no, but we use Jabber at work. I could test it I think here. Jan 08 15:17:49 my problem is, i cant enter username/password in the seversettings Jan 08 15:18:15 icq etc. - no probleme here Jan 08 15:18:57 joshua: ? lol Jan 08 15:19:59 btw anyone with twitter follow me! Jan 08 15:20:04 usually you want to get a nice client on your PC and set up all the transports into the jabber account to connect to irc/aim etc. and then log in mobile Jan 08 15:20:06 http://twitter.com/webosappcatalog Jan 08 15:20:11 app caatalog releases Jan 08 15:20:31 will support other catalogs shortly Jan 08 15:20:36 did i just leave... oops Jan 08 15:20:48 damn mac keyboard shortcuts Jan 08 15:22:07 joshua: how did u access that catalog Jan 08 15:22:07 ? Jan 08 15:22:50 subscribed to the RSS feed in my reader: http://developer.palm.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1844 Jan 08 15:35:40 doom/quake q... i doctored my phone and back to normal. quake/doom only run from terminal, not from icon... any ideas? Jan 08 15:36:03 need 4 speed launches fine Jan 08 15:39:00 FreeTim: can you enter any data? Jan 08 15:40:24 it didn't let me find the server. I think my workplace requires VPN login prior to the port being open, so I'm sunk Jan 08 15:41:50 xenophone: did you install the required Preware anciallary apps when prompted? Those are crucial to the scripts Jan 08 15:41:53 hmm Jan 08 15:42:02 my palm pre just hung during reboot Jan 08 15:42:18 if you skipped them, you'll get the game but it won't launch by icon, I suspect Jan 08 15:42:53 also, you webDoctor... to the current version 1.3.5.1 ? or, some older one Jan 08 15:46:48 xenophone: you have to install upstart manager i believe, uninstall doom/quake etc and reinstall with upstart manager service Jan 08 15:48:07 etx: thanks, i think it installed dependencies but i'll try again Jan 08 15:48:31 FreeTim: ok, i can't even enter a username/password.... so its just a problem on my pre ;) Jan 08 15:48:51 You got further along than did I Jan 08 15:56:11 good news, removed upstart service, reinstalled everything and quake now runs from icon Jan 08 15:57:44 Why does google reader have folders and not labels? wtf Jan 08 15:59:53 what did i miss while sleeping? Jan 08 16:07:02 Okay, asking here because I haven't seen it talked about anywhere else and wondering if it's a problem just with my Pre: Terminal seems to crash Luna more often than not when I swipe it away. Anyone else seeing this? Jan 08 16:07:32 This has NEVER happened before, it seems to be just in the past couple of weeks. Jan 08 16:09:39 1.3.5 changes caused instability in terminal Jan 08 16:10:00 we haven't figured out why, though Jan 08 16:10:23 it is a known issue and should be updated on the application page Jan 08 16:10:39 Okay, at least it's a known issue then. Workaround is easy, just don't close terminal :) Jan 08 16:11:31 time to replace it with sdlterm Jan 08 16:11:49 If anyone of you have time, http://forums.precentral.net/web-os-development/223501-do-you-think-palm-has-right-model-app-distribution.html Jan 08 16:13:33 hey whatever happened to slingbox? i thought they were one of the developers who signed up before launch. I guess they dropped out of the webos biz Jan 08 16:19:49 while i don't like silverlight can it it be ported to webos so that we can do netflix? ms does have sl for linux Jan 08 16:20:30 I wonder why Netflix went with Silverlight instead of Flash Jan 08 16:20:41 Flash is a lot more universal Jan 08 16:20:54 they used to do flash but it was hacked... not secure enough for them... htey have to appease the studios Jan 08 16:21:13 I'm sure Silverlight can be hacked too Jan 08 16:21:21 xenophone: er, silverlight is a microsoft product. you understand what that means right Jan 08 16:21:24 but it hasn't yet Jan 08 16:21:53 xcomp: yes, but i meant an unnofficial port Jan 08 16:22:16 unofficial how? you going to break into an office in redmond and steal a source disk? Jan 08 16:22:38 so anyone figure out GLES 1.1 yet Jan 08 16:23:12 http://www.insideria.com/2009/01/installing-silverlight-on-linu.html - independent silverlight port? Jan 08 16:25:20 http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/moonlight-2-expands-silverlight-capabilities-linux-662 says it's open source... Jan 08 16:25:44 moonlight Jan 08 16:25:53 still no silverlight2 compatible Jan 08 16:26:12 moonlight uses de icaza's mono engine Jan 08 16:26:33 new version has sl2 and sl3 in works Jan 08 16:26:52 and directly uses x11 with no form of acceleration Jan 08 16:27:13 so probably not an easy port to webos, then, huh? Jan 08 16:28:23 actually it uses libcairo Jan 08 16:28:49 which is dependent on X Jan 08 16:29:26 there is an experimental FB backend for cairo Jan 08 16:32:00 Would be interesting to try to implement an X11 server in SDL. Jan 08 16:32:16 X11 is a bit bloated for the Pre though. Jan 08 16:32:58 no...there's nothing that says Pre can't run X Jan 08 16:33:06 maemo runs X Jan 08 16:33:21 Well I mean an X server rendering into SDL so it's just another card. Jan 08 16:33:27 Full Video Of Palm's CES 2010 Presentation Up Now http://bit.ly/5buPVU Jan 08 16:34:18 yeah I know ... the problem is good luck trying to sit down and actually implement an X server. That is no trivial project Jan 08 16:36:19 i wonder if they're going to put anything in their catalog that shows off these new gfx abilities that I don't have to pay $10 to see Jan 08 16:37:23 like a freaking DEMO perhaps Jan 08 16:37:28 yeah Jan 08 16:39:21 I'm too cheap to spend $10 on a game for my phone.. Jan 08 16:39:27 Even if does look nice. Jan 08 16:39:32 write your own :) Jan 08 16:41:22 i've have a real job now, and it's been a long ass time since anything I've done for Palm paid my bills~ Jan 08 16:43:32 you can do it in your spare time Jan 08 16:44:00 of which we all have copius amounts, I'm sure :D Jan 08 16:44:20 FYI, my wife wants a photo hunt game. I bet she would spend $8 for one. Jan 08 16:45:13 cashen007: isn't there a photo hunt game already? Jan 08 16:46:53 I just want a triangle in GLES 1.1 Jan 08 16:46:56 sugardave: I think there are only matching games like spot the difference Jan 08 16:47:20 Maybe there's some "use 1.1 mode" call we need Jan 08 16:47:44 cashen007: I see Jan 08 16:51:05 Palm only updates their feeds every 24 hours? Isnt that the point of a feed to be realtime? Jan 08 16:51:09 bullshit, the pre-plus has video recording? does that mean they'll never add it to the pre? Jan 08 16:51:25 my $30 samsung had video recording. Jan 08 16:51:28 egaudet_work: I don't have my phone on me, but what seems to be the trouble with 1.1? the code isn't working for you? Jan 08 16:51:32 egaudet_work: are you linking against libGLES_CM or libGLESv2 ? Jan 08 16:51:37 jettero: it's coming to pre in feb Jan 08 16:52:11 jettero: yeah, video recording and flash beta in feb with webos 1.4 Jan 08 16:52:16 on all current hardware Jan 08 16:52:37 oh Jan 08 16:52:45 that was just a CES preview or something then Jan 08 16:52:46 whew Jan 08 16:52:49 jettero: could it edit? Jan 08 16:52:57 meh? Jan 08 16:53:03 edit the video Jan 08 16:53:23 bpadalino|work: correct Jan 08 16:53:46 how would I know? Jan 08 16:53:53 bpadalino|work: GLES_CM Jan 08 16:53:56 it was a precentral article link to youtube... Jan 08 16:54:11 egaudet_work: and it still doesn't work, huh ? Jan 08 16:54:19 mdklein: I can't get anything but a card with funky color lines, like broken graphics :P others have reported same Jan 08 16:54:22 bpadalino|work: right Jan 08 16:54:40 I have yet to see any 1.1 code run/work on Pre Jan 08 16:54:54 just stick with 2.0 .. it's better anyway Jan 08 16:54:56 :) Jan 08 16:54:57 I mean I know the apps use 1.1 so we know that it works, I just haven't seen any source Jan 08 16:55:15 how do you know they use 1.1 ? Jan 08 16:55:35 bpadalino|work: yea I definitely want to but the fact that all the app cat games can use 1.1 and I can't really gets on my nerves. Plus I want to port tuxracer which is a much larger chore to 2.0 than 1.1 Jan 08 16:55:42 hrm, k... I've got the powerVr sdk 1.1 demos running on the pre's framebuffer, but not in a card yet... and the fight with luna is not pleasant heh Jan 08 16:55:49 bpadalino|work: because the binaries link against GLES_CM and NOT GLESv2 Jan 08 16:56:00 I'll hopefully play with it some more tonight/this weekend Jan 08 16:56:02 oh, ok Jan 08 16:56:20 paste your 1.1 code ? Jan 08 16:56:34 it's just the straight up SDK from TI Jan 08 16:56:37 mdklein: that will be good for me to try, just dl'd the vr sdk yesterday Jan 08 16:57:35 http://webos.pastebin.com/me6625d9 Jan 08 16:57:37 I've been working on wrapping the PVRShell abstraction layer calls into a SDL window, but haven't made too much working progress there... Jan 08 16:58:23 my main thing has been lack of time Jan 08 16:58:35 I sure as hell hope Flash can be disabled in 1.4 Jan 08 16:58:52 it's a browser plugin I'm sure it can be disabled Jan 08 16:59:01 I only want Flash when I'm using sites that have useful Flash content, 95% of flash on the web is annoying ads. Jan 08 16:59:07 egaudet_work: query openGL for errors as you step through these things .. Jan 08 16:59:22 /etc/palm/browser.conf even has a configuration line to disable plugins Jan 08 16:59:38 erm /etc/palm/browser-platform.conf ? maybe it's browser-app Jan 08 16:59:44 egaudet_work: you don't setup a viewport ? Jan 08 16:59:50 Ideally, flash apps would appear as tappable windows to load them. Jan 08 16:59:56 browser.conf is luna I think, don't disable it there Jan 08 17:00:04 Sprint would like that too; saves them bandwidth :) Jan 08 17:00:29 egaudet_work: read this: http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2009/04/opengl-es-from-ground-up-part-3.html Jan 08 17:00:33 look at the viewport stuff Jan 08 17:00:54 brb Jan 08 17:01:28 lunch time Jan 08 17:01:35 bpadalino|work: glGetError() always returns 0 Jan 08 17:04:12 I hope flash content is disabled by default, have to tap it to activate Jan 08 17:04:43 Kyusaku: I think someone who knows has confirmed that it will be Jan 08 17:05:30 good, don't need spam mucking up my mobile browsing expience Jan 08 17:05:49 I think Nokia is screwed. Jan 08 17:06:36 cashen007: why is that? Jan 08 17:07:37 cdm: YOU LIVE! Jan 08 17:07:42 it's pretty tough to screw Nokia Jan 08 17:07:48 Palm, HTC, Apple, I think they banked too much on the dumbphone market. Jan 08 17:07:53 cdm: long time no see. Jan 08 17:08:02 cdm: the preplus deniers are pretty funny Jan 08 17:08:26 cashen007: yeah but they also built maemo Jan 08 17:08:51 cashen007: they've got N900 and they're posed to go further with smartphones Jan 08 17:08:55 s/os/ois/ Jan 08 17:08:56 destinal meant: cashen007: they've got N900 and they're poised to go further with smartphones Jan 08 17:10:25 have you used Maemo?? Jan 08 17:11:04 bhern: eh, I've seen videos and I know it's apparently (at least mostly) open source Jan 08 17:11:22 if I hadn't bought a pre I probably would have gotten the N900 at launch Jan 08 17:11:38 I never owned a maemo device, but i have used them, Jan 08 17:11:41 not really a big fan Jan 08 17:12:54 the maemo project is basically responsible for the scratchbox2 environment (which is very nice) that we use to make autoconf based tools and standard makefiles build and run without time intensive tweaking Jan 08 17:13:34 i'm just interested in feedback from people who have used (live on) it, developed for it, etc Jan 08 17:14:02 my own use was limited but it seemed very rough Jan 08 17:16:13 So I wonder why Pixi was left out in the cold for the new games? maybe Palm's new SDL stuff doesn't work on the Pixi's GPU yet Jan 08 17:16:33 also maybe they didn't have armv6 binaries built and tested Jan 08 17:17:39 destinal: scratchbox2 has nothing to do with not having to tweak stuff Jan 08 17:18:18 PuffTheMagic: I mean paths and hard coding things that test binaries do automatically normally Jan 08 17:18:31 believe me, it can be a lot more work normally Jan 08 17:18:44 yeah compared to manually doing it Jan 08 17:19:09 yeah, not everything is designed to be quite as cross-build friendly Jan 08 17:19:12 but all source based package managers are about equal here Jan 08 17:19:45 and you can't always find packages for your more crossbuild friendly tools Jan 08 17:20:32 but as always there's more than one way to skin this cat Jan 08 17:21:23 so i rebooted my phone this morning and my launcher was EMPTY!! Jan 08 17:21:28 scary stuff Jan 08 17:21:33 well once you have a toolchain it really dont get that much harder Jan 08 17:21:38 rebooted it again, and once again it was filled with icons Jan 08 17:21:52 I lost a lot of respect for Nokia when they recently became lawsuit happy Jan 08 17:21:57 Rather than sue, innovate, damnit. Jan 08 17:22:09 Zorin: i blame the n900 for sucking Jan 08 17:22:23 Mousey: i had a friend at work with that problem yesterday Jan 08 17:22:27 did you find out what caused it? Jan 08 17:22:32 NO! Jan 08 17:22:42 Mousey: the N900 sucking? Jan 08 17:22:53 I hadn't heard it sucked Jan 08 17:23:02 yeah, I was showing him xplane on my phone, and he wanted to go to the app catalog to check out nfs Jan 08 17:23:05 had i been at a computer i would have looked deeper. but after rebooting again and having the icons come back, i was mostly relieved Jan 08 17:23:10 and swipe, nothing Jan 08 17:23:10 yeah everyone i know with n8* and n9*'s love them Jan 08 17:23:11 The iPhone would not exist if not for the Treo. The Pre would not exist if not for the iPhone. Android would not exist if not for both of them. Competition has brought us a TON of awesome. It's a good thing, NOkia is a sore loser. Jan 08 17:23:19 destinal: well clearly whoever told you never had an n810 Jan 08 17:23:37 Mousey: oh you mean the going from tablet to brickphone thing Jan 08 17:23:43 basically Jan 08 17:23:52 they should have stayed with tablet and rivaled the iSlate Jan 08 17:23:58 nokia needs to get on more carriers and advertise in the US Jan 08 17:24:03 so you'd prefer to carry a tablet and a pre and tether? :) Jan 08 17:24:10 they are mostly a EU thing Jan 08 17:24:21 i never see nokia devices in the US Jan 08 17:24:34 except when cellphones were just starting off Jan 08 17:24:37 I almost bought an 770 when they came out Jan 08 17:24:41 they had some nice thind devices Jan 08 17:24:47 thin Jan 08 17:24:58 when that Matrix slider came out Jan 08 17:25:00 nokia was hot Jan 08 17:25:38 I'm not spending $550+ for a phone no matter what. Jan 08 17:25:51 cashen007: well the pre cost that much Jan 08 17:25:53 just subsidized Jan 08 17:26:07 i dont buy non-contract phones Jan 08 17:26:10 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/live-from-nokia-ceo-olli-pekka-kallasvuos-ces-2010-keynote/ Jan 08 17:26:21 no way i would spend 600 on a phone that is already obsolete Jan 08 17:26:34 Nokia's keynote is funny. They are basically saying how they make money off 3rd world countries Jan 08 17:26:53 If you're using a non-contract phone they should charge you less a month for service, since they're not subsidizing it. But they don't, so there's no point in getting a phone out of contract. Jan 08 17:26:59 PuffTheMagic: yeah, not capacitive? wtf? Jan 08 17:27:08 huh? Jan 08 17:27:15 the screen Jan 08 17:27:29 Nokia, 9:23AM "There are 800 million illiterate people worldwide, and many of them are our customers." Jan 08 17:27:31 they use resistive (single touch) touchscreens on the N900 Jan 08 17:27:37 Wow, fail Jan 08 17:27:41 No one should be using those anymore. Jan 08 17:27:46 epic fail Jan 08 17:27:56 that was the main reason I wouldn't want one Jan 08 17:28:07 If the NexusOne had a real keyboard I'd really like it. Jan 08 17:28:17 otherwise the phone is like a close cousin of the pre, just not underclocked Jan 08 17:28:24 My Treo 650, and now my Pre have spoiled me; I must have a hardware keyboard. Jan 08 17:28:27 its a super sized hero Jan 08 17:28:58 actually that reminds me, I mustn't forget to build maemo for the pre Jan 08 17:29:07 I think the Treo 650 should be considered the most revolutionary and best phone of the 00s. Jan 08 17:29:11 though my main reasons are less vital now that we have supported native apps Jan 08 17:29:28 New apps in the catalog, 18 of them Jan 08 17:29:49 Why didnt my palm feeds update! Jan 08 17:29:57 wtf Jan 08 17:30:02 my pre is not charging anymore Jan 08 17:30:14 the battery show that it is but it's not Jan 08 17:30:25 i shut it down and removed the battery for a minute Jan 08 17:30:27 didn't help Jan 08 17:31:04 maybe it's your charger? Jan 08 17:31:17 usb port fucked? Jan 08 17:31:39 so its been less than 24 hrs a nd NFS has 303 reviews, so i would guess thats at least 500 DLs, thats $5,000 in revenue. Jan 08 17:32:08 Not bad. I wonder how much it cost to port. Jan 08 17:32:09 NFS? Jan 08 17:32:16 really? NFS for Pre? Jan 08 17:32:18 i tried two chargers no go Jan 08 17:32:22 looks like busted usb Jan 08 17:32:24 Mousey: where u been? Jan 08 17:32:29 Mousey: which rock have you been hiding under? Jan 08 17:32:34 Since the iPhone uses OpenGL, and so does the Pre, does that mean that it's trivial to port 3D games from the iPhone tothe Pre? Jan 08 17:32:38 but.. but.. Jan 08 17:32:39 really? Jan 08 17:32:45 Mousey, yap Jan 08 17:32:58 i've been playn nfs on my pre can't get enough Jan 08 17:33:00 * Mousey has to start looking in more than just the "Patches" section Jan 08 17:33:08 I feel every prepaid phone is a nokia Jan 08 17:33:09 Zorin: in a way Jan 08 17:33:17 Zorin: however, iphone sdk uses obj-C Jan 08 17:34:01 I guess it's possible to compile obj-C on any linux, but that's probably not "officially" part of the sdk Jan 08 17:34:08 en0x: is it good? i was waiting to purchase one of these games Jan 08 17:34:14 i like it Jan 08 17:34:15 ;) Jan 08 17:34:23 I'd rather support a small developer than the big ones Jan 08 17:34:25 I'm laughing at the "Teen Repellant" app Jan 08 17:34:28 i don't think i've seen anyone who was disappointed with nfs Jan 08 17:34:29 I'm going to have to try that. Jan 08 17:35:05 i personally i'm trying to be disciplined and not pay for it since I've already blown about $200 on various stuff this month already Jan 08 17:35:20 and i'm resolving to be more fiscally disciplined this year Jan 08 17:35:33 little things like this count too Jan 08 17:37:47 Same here, especially since I Just bought a Powershot S90 Jan 08 17:40:40 i bought the golf game Jan 08 17:40:43 its pretty decent Jan 08 17:40:46 FINALLY quake update finishes downloading Jan 08 17:40:52 its pretty fun to play Jan 08 17:40:54 with the addition of SDL/OpenGL support, has there been any new developments on stuff like remote desktop/vnc, or perhaps the emulators (NES, etc)? I'm sure this question's been asked a lot, but the wiki pages for said things haven't changed Jan 08 17:41:07 still no jabber client Jan 08 17:41:08 =( Jan 08 17:41:14 still no syncml Jan 08 17:41:18 still stuck in the cloud =( Jan 08 17:41:23 lol Jan 08 17:41:38 gtalk runs on the jabber protocol, what else do you need with that? :p Jan 08 17:41:54 i have my own jabber server, as does my place of work. i can join neither Jan 08 17:41:59 thats what else i need with that Jan 08 17:42:03 have you tried using service discovery? Jan 08 17:42:03 since you ask Jan 08 17:42:17 internal jabber service, not discoverable by google Jan 08 17:42:46 my jabber server advertises transports to AIM, MSN, and YM, so if i COULD join my jabber server, i COULD take advantage of service discovery Jan 08 17:42:48 alas Jan 08 17:42:49 nothing Jan 08 17:42:51 ;_; Jan 08 17:42:51 Mousey: laforge had a patch for the jabber, right? Jan 08 17:43:04 destinal: i've only ever heard rumor Jan 08 17:43:09 there's just a hard coded user name Jan 08 17:43:12 well I use service discovery to connect to MSN via GTalk for me Jan 08 17:43:13 check Jan 08 17:43:27 patch? where?? :) Jan 08 17:43:37 destinal: and a check to make sure it's not trying to connect to another server beside's google Jan 08 17:44:19 http://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/10/31/#20091031-binary_patching_webos_for_jabber Jan 08 17:44:24 hmm he has a binary patch Jan 08 17:44:30 CoolMatty: that does me no good since all i really want is xmpp, not msn or aim Jan 08 17:44:38 destinal: thanks Jan 08 17:44:44 * Mousey does some work before spelunking Jan 08 17:45:06 yeah i need that too Jan 08 17:45:42 own jabber server and no way to connect to xmpp Jan 08 17:45:44 sucks Jan 08 17:48:38 Mousey: my point was, is you could find an open jabber server with such services, and see if they could connect to yours. basically: gtalk -> middleman jabber server -> yours Jan 08 17:48:45 annoying, but possible :/ Jan 08 17:49:56 I've never liked jabber personally anyway, for that reason of segmentation Jan 08 17:52:10 but I'm optimistic about new patches or updates improving the IM client more, especially considering its pidgin background. Jan 08 17:53:44 can someone tell me the name of the db file within: /var/preferences/com.palm.wifi Jan 08 17:53:45 I need a nettop running webOS and a tablet running webOS, share apps, one can dream Jan 08 17:53:46 thank you Jan 08 17:56:37 Hi guys. Jan 08 17:56:46 I have 15 minutes before I have to leave. Jan 08 17:57:01 I have an appointment for a 1 on 1 chat with someone. Jan 08 17:57:29 Any questions WHICH THERE IS A CHANCE MIGHT GET ANSWERED that you want to know right now, ask and I'll try to get them in. Jan 08 17:57:45 can someone tell me the name of the db file within: /var/preferences/com.palm.wifi Jan 08 18:00:45 Rick_work: what are you having for lunch? :) Jan 08 18:02:00 who are you talking with, palm? :p Jan 08 18:02:14 cause most of my questions are ones they won't/can't answer anyway :p Jan 08 18:02:36 like a more firm date of flash arriving, etc Jan 08 18:02:56 When can I get a GLES 1.1 source code demo :P Jan 08 18:03:05 MSN/Jabber support in IM? there's one Jan 08 18:03:44 CoolMatty flash will be released the day that they get working graphics stuff from qualcomm for the arm6 processor in the pixi. Jan 08 18:03:48 CoolMatty: Feb 18th, 7:00 EST. Jan 08 18:03:50 scrupul0us: prefsDB.sl Jan 08 18:04:18 Rick-home: I was under the impression they just weren't going to release it for the pixi :p Jan 08 18:04:39 CoolMatty no. nononnonoono Jan 08 18:04:51 the problem is, the gpu in the pixi is DIFFERENT than the gpu in the pre. Jan 08 18:04:55 pre has a ti chip Jan 08 18:05:00 pixi has a qualcomm chip Jan 08 18:05:00 Kyusaku: TY! Jan 08 18:05:04 heh, I didn't know the pixi had a real GPU chip in the first place Jan 08 18:05:26 yeah, pixi fail for not having a TI chip Jan 08 18:05:33 has there been any corelation discovered between homebrew and NFSU crashing? Jan 08 18:05:35 CoolMatty and it was hard enough getting opengl stuff out of ti, qualcomm is being slower Jan 08 18:05:41 doesn't palm know that TI chips > *? Jan 08 18:05:41 Kyusaku: now Ive got all my wifi networks backed up before I replace my PRE Jan 08 18:05:45 Youknowutimean no Jan 08 18:05:51 ask if the pre plus has a faster CPU and confirm the extra RAM maybe? :p Jan 08 18:06:01 except, of course for mytether which doesn't count because he's evil. Jan 08 18:06:16 CoolMatty same processor, more ram, more flash Jan 08 18:06:24 I don't use mytether anymore since it started requiring reboots and wifi driver changes Jan 08 18:07:36 I wonder how much of an impact that extra RAM will have. I imagine it'll be useful for gaming+other cards at the same time, but beyond that? Jan 08 18:07:51 nothing beyond that Jan 08 18:07:54 isn't what that mytether guy doing illegal anyways? Jan 08 18:08:01 I have a sneaky suspicion that the demo they did at CES can't be done on a regular Pre, just from everything they were doing at once Jan 08 18:08:02 xcomp yes Jan 08 18:08:06 evil Jan 08 18:08:16 I have an extra pre, I wonder if I could tether my mytether phone to my stock phone via bluetooth to make a bridge Jan 08 18:08:22 linux kernel code is gpl Jan 08 18:08:27 CoolMatty: do you have a pre? Jan 08 18:08:30 illegal as in breaking Sprint contract rules, or illegal in another manner? Jan 08 18:08:33 you can't charge people for modifications and not provide source Jan 08 18:09:02 violation of intellectual property laws, plus it breaks the freaking phone and he won't work with us on it because he insists on closed source. Jan 08 18:09:07 and any other code that isn't gpl'ed is palm proprietary Jan 08 18:09:20 he could get a dmca violation Jan 08 18:09:20 ah Jan 08 18:09:23 just another open source abuser. nothing ot see here. move along. Jan 08 18:09:41 someone should report him to the fsf Jan 08 18:09:44 yeah IMO it went off the deep end when he went "donationware" >.> Jan 08 18:09:46 but palm will just do like they did yesterday, release the software Jan 08 18:09:54 stallman sits on his ass for 30 seconds he'll be pleading for mercy Jan 08 18:10:07 palm seems to be very anxious to play nice with homebrew Jan 08 18:10:07 what? mytether wasn't illegal Jan 08 18:10:28 destinal: if he's charging people for kernel modifications, it is Jan 08 18:10:29 it's illegal on multiple fronts. if nothing else, it's breaking your contract with sprint for tether usage :p Jan 08 18:10:34 finally a manufacturer who understand how the homebrew scene works, and the benefits it brings to a device Jan 08 18:10:48 Rick_work: here is my question: how can I get a Pre plus spec (512MiB/16GiB) phone as a developer? Is there going to be anything like a developer hardware program? Jan 08 18:10:53 ok, so, no one has any questions I can ask that won't trigger ICNCOD? Jan 08 18:11:03 CoolMatty: but this only counts for US Jan 08 18:11:06 CoolMatty: there's a difference between breaking your contract and writing an app that someone may use to break their contract or may use legally Jan 08 18:11:10 Rick_work: see my question :-) Jan 08 18:11:13 Rick-home: MSN/Jabber on messenger? :p Jan 08 18:11:19 Developer phones are a hard topic. I keep pushing, rod keeps pushing they WANT to put out dev phones. Jan 08 18:11:19 jacques: I was told by palm that they are working on a developer hardware program Jan 08 18:11:25 WANT TO Jan 08 18:11:29 oh, yeah! jabber! Jan 08 18:11:30 destinal: he's charging money. that is illegal Jan 08 18:11:38 Rick_work: OK that's good enough for me Jan 08 18:11:41 xcomp: no, you can charge money for GPL stuff, total misconception Jan 08 18:11:43 thanks prototypic Jan 08 18:11:49 destinal: but you also have to provide the source Jan 08 18:11:53 and he wont' do that Jan 08 18:11:56 I'd say ask about emulators on the Pre (NES/SNES) but that's not exactly Palm's problem lawl Jan 08 18:12:00 xcomp: for the kernel module, yes Jan 08 18:12:03 xcomp: for the rest, no Jan 08 18:12:21 has he provided the source for his kernel modification? Jan 08 18:12:21 jeeez none of you are even coming up with the good questions. Jan 08 18:12:32 xcomp: didn't he just redistribute palm's old kernel module? Jan 08 18:12:39 well see, all the good ones got ruined after CES Jan 08 18:12:48 "Can you provide the files so we can compile PDK apps for the emulator" Jan 08 18:12:54 like, now we know flash is almost here, we know we have video editing coming soon, etc Jan 08 18:13:03 "is the pdk going to be sb2, or something else? " Jan 08 18:13:09 destinal: my understanding is that he is refusing to share exactly what it is he's distributing Jan 08 18:13:10 Rick_work: how about the OE config files Palm uses ? Jan 08 18:13:20 everything is black box Jan 08 18:13:32 OE == openembedded (what they use to build the rootfs) Jan 08 18:13:34 oh Jan 08 18:13:39 Palm does ---not--- use oe. The kernal is custom -- very very custom Jan 08 18:13:40 ask about mojo messenging service! Jan 08 18:13:54 what abou tit. Jan 08 18:13:54 like, when the heck is it coming >.> Jan 08 18:13:55 Rick_work: OE / rootfs has nothing to do with kernel Jan 08 18:13:56 ah Jan 08 18:14:02 haven't heard anything about it in a looong time Jan 08 18:14:03 ok jacques Jan 08 18:14:10 Rick_work: if you don't believe me, ask rod Jan 08 18:14:12 CoolMatty I'll ask Jan 08 18:14:19 Sokay I'll ask Jan 08 18:14:40 gotta run. Jan 08 18:14:41 bye Jan 08 18:14:43 cya :p Jan 08 18:14:47 good luck Rick_work Jan 08 18:14:52 xcomp: if he's violating the GPL, it's no less than palm is Jan 08 18:15:12 Palm's been rather good trying to comply with GPL though Jan 08 18:15:15 destinal: palm provides the source code for everything they use Jan 08 18:15:16 the real problem des is he's BREAKING THE PHONES Jan 08 18:15:46 why do we have to spend time / effort supporting his customers? Jan 08 18:15:48 how is palm not breaking GPL? Jan 08 18:16:00 how IS it breaking the GPL? Jan 08 18:16:04 s/not// Jan 08 18:16:04 cashen007 meant: how is palm breaking GPL? Jan 08 18:16:10 lawl Jan 08 18:16:18 yeah I hadn't heard anything about Palm breaking the GPL Jan 08 18:16:42 I think they had a couple things not open-sourced, a while back, but when pointed out to them they added it to their open source page Jan 08 18:16:47 that was all I ever heard on the matter Jan 08 18:17:21 I haven't seen anything that looks like they are not in compliance Jan 08 18:17:34 mhmm Jan 08 18:17:48 in any case, mytether is just all around bad Jan 08 18:18:11 * xcomp finally got his sb2 situation in order Jan 08 18:18:13 AFAIK, the binary-only kernel drivers they distribute are *not* GPL Jan 08 18:18:43 yeah, which is acceptable common practice Jan 08 18:18:57 so you would have to go after companies like NVidia and ATI/AMD too if you think binary drivers cannot be linked to the kernel Jan 08 18:19:04 xcomp: yeah Jan 08 18:19:11 yeah, of all the companies to comply with GPL, I'd expect Palm to do rather well. Especially considering how they've worked with the community thus far. Jan 08 18:19:25 and you would also be arguing against Linus Jan 08 18:19:32 they don't generally provide complete and corresponding code Jan 08 18:19:39 and don't seem so far to understand the need to Jan 08 18:20:07 destinal: pirahna header files? Jan 08 18:20:45 I think they should distribute them. Jan 08 18:20:49 see the SDL release and webcore / webkit and libpurple-adapter (though they did finally correct that after months) Jan 08 18:20:53 piranha Jan 08 18:20:59 if it doesn't compile, the release is not complete Jan 08 18:21:19 FSF is pretty clear Jan 08 18:21:50 yeah I agree then. Jan 08 18:21:51 rather the text of the GPL and LGPL licenses is Jan 08 18:22:04 that argument was beaten to death a while back Jan 08 18:22:12 but this seems in the class of minor oversight Jan 08 18:22:34 Palm appears to be operating in good faith. Jan 08 18:22:38 (unlike some) Jan 08 18:22:41 jacques: I don't know about that. it may be a minor oversight until it's raised and they don't fix it Jan 08 18:22:41 Linus himself makes it clear that it is OK for vendors to provide binary-only modules to load into the kernel runtime Jan 08 18:22:54 has anyone pressed Palm about the missing headers for SDL? Jan 08 18:23:29 xcomp: not talking about binary only kernel modules Jan 08 18:23:37 yeah...sorry, re-read again Jan 08 18:23:47 destinal: has the issue been raised with Palm? Jan 08 18:24:12 that's a tough one to say, considering we don't know exactly what palm's build environment is like Jan 08 18:24:22 xcomp: not at all Jan 08 18:24:27 i'm not sure gpl requires you to also disclose your build environment parameters Jan 08 18:24:36 it requires you to provide headers used to build Jan 08 18:24:45 and makefiles Jan 08 18:24:52 yeah, it requires you to provide source code Jan 08 18:24:56 in short, we have to be able to build what they build Jan 08 18:24:57 and run Jan 08 18:24:58 I don't know about makefiles Jan 08 18:25:04 yes, it does, trust me Jan 08 18:25:32 so I assume you came across these missing headers, did you alert them to it? Jan 08 18:25:48 I think it's only fair to give them a chance to fix and be in complaince again Jan 08 18:25:58 agreed. Jan 08 18:26:04 yes many months ago Jan 08 18:26:25 destinal: did you get any response at all? Jan 08 18:26:26 talked to their opensource address, was escalated to their top attorney in charge of open source Jan 08 18:26:32 had a long phone conversation with him Jan 08 18:26:41 his view was "it's not our job to help you compile things" Jan 08 18:26:53 then he's ignorant Jan 08 18:27:49 Sometimes wonder why companies have such attitudes. We're passionate about the platform, want to contribute, and they say dumb things like that Jan 08 18:28:10 yeah ... you're right about that ... they are supposed to provide makefiles Jan 08 18:28:37 Zorin: companies are concerned about intellectual property, to the point of paranoia Jan 08 18:28:38 also he views piranha as another project and one that isn't licensed under GPL or LGPL Jan 08 18:29:02 doesn't agree that the headers the GPL / LGPL programs include need to be included for them to comply Jan 08 18:29:07 I know TI, for example, is Jan 08 18:29:12 IMHO if they want to be paranoid, stay the hell away from GPL code Jan 08 18:29:33 if there is anything that would even come close to disclosing TI intellectual property in there, there's no way Palm will release it Jan 08 18:29:37 even if they want to Jan 08 18:30:14 xcomp: compliance with GPL is their choice, but if they don't want to they need to not infringe Jan 08 18:30:38 yeah, and when push comes to shove, an army of TI lawyers > any GPL claims Jan 08 18:33:04 so all this was to say -- don't hold palm up as an example of good open source citizen and slam the mytether guy just because he may be a jerk and we mostly like palm Jan 08 18:33:06 personally though I don't see why makefiles and build scripts should create IP disclosure risk for either Palm or TI Jan 08 18:33:26 destinal: OK you completely lost me there. Jan 08 18:33:35 jacques: where? Jan 08 18:33:51 destinal: err, regardless, Palm has been more opensource friendly than any other hardware company I can think of Jan 08 18:34:14 compared to, for example, ATI Jan 08 18:34:16 I think Palm is acting in good faith. I think the mytether guy is a sleazy open source abuser. Jan 08 18:34:26 that has been a thorn in the back of linux users for ages Jan 08 18:35:24 Mytether should be free. Not because of open source mantra, but because it's already "shady" functionality and charging for it just makes it easier for someone to come down on him. Jan 08 18:36:01 that's why he hides behind the "donation" mantra he spouts Jan 08 18:36:06 Plus he keeps breaking people's stuff :p Jan 08 18:36:10 too bad it wouldn't really hold up if someone pushed him on it Jan 08 18:36:17 Yep, it's not a donation if you have to donate to get it. It's a purchase. Jan 08 18:36:23 exactly. Jan 08 18:36:42 I have never agreed with the mandatory donation thing. It's a total lie. Jan 08 18:36:56 And yep, I don't dare touch MyTether. I tether, but through CLI hacks. And I do it very, very sparingly. I know it's by Sprint's good will that they haven't tried to clamp down on it harder, so I'm grateful. Jan 08 18:37:01 a four year old could see through it Jan 08 18:37:19 * xcomp takes on evas-sdl Jan 08 18:37:21 I have no reason to tether. Jan 08 18:37:30 The Pre is my only portable wifi enabled device :p Jan 08 18:37:44 The only other wifi devices I have are my desktop and my 360. Jan 08 18:37:50 And my new Pre when it gets here.. Jan 08 18:37:51 ird: Tethering was very convenient when my home internet was down for a few days last month. I limited my bandwidth usage big time but it was a godsend. Jan 08 18:38:11 I get no EVDO inside my house either :p Jan 08 18:38:17 it's great for email when you're on a train Jan 08 18:38:19 If Sprint offered reasonably priced tethering plan, I would buy it. Jan 08 18:38:20 sprint really doesn't watch tethering users like other providers do Jan 08 18:38:29 i used to tether like a mother with my 755p Jan 08 18:38:31 I just went and got a regular USB 3G card Jan 08 18:38:31 I'm not watching YouTube videos but in a pinch it's great Jan 08 18:38:33 AFAICT Sprint has *no* tetherins plan Jan 08 18:38:42 xcomp: I think if someone abused it, they'd get a talking to. I've yet to pull more than 500MB in any single month total, even the times I've tethered. Jan 08 18:38:52 you sure? I thought they did, but it was restricted to certain phones, jacques Jan 08 18:38:58 yeah, I've never gone off torrenting or something silly liek that Jan 08 18:39:02 how does one tell? Is that on your sprint accocunt summary online, or on the phone? Jan 08 18:39:13 Sprint used to allow tethering. The Treo 650 could tether, no problems, no hacks. Jan 08 18:39:14 CoolMatty: sorry, no tethering plan compatible with my Pre Jan 08 18:39:19 but at the same time I've never tried to curb my internet use while tethering Jan 08 18:39:32 there is a summary of the data usage you use FreeTim, on the account page Jan 08 18:39:45 As long as you're not browsing anything the pre can't already do, what's the difference? Jan 08 18:39:49 ok thanks Jan 08 18:39:52 However the Treo 650 was 1x only so it was rather slow tethering. Good for IM, irc, and light browsing, not much else. Jan 08 18:39:59 seeing as regular 3G usb cards have a 5GB cap, I'd say it's safe to at least use 5GB on the phone as well Jan 08 18:40:01 ird: and the Pre can do pretty much anything :-) Jan 08 18:40:06 exactly. Jan 08 18:40:12 We just need a torrent app. Jan 08 18:40:18 Besides rtorrent in optware. Jan 08 18:40:25 lol Jan 08 18:40:38 I wonder what the uplink bandwidth is like Jan 08 18:40:53 everyone was amazed at the announcement of that verizon mobile hotspot app, but the "for an additional fee" caught me and made me feel better after Jan 08 18:40:55 I can't wait for my new pre... Jan 08 18:41:00 Wobbly pre is giving me the blues. Jan 08 18:41:06 And I'm tired of this broke power button. Jan 08 18:41:12 I want a pre plus :/ Jan 08 18:41:17 but hell if I'm going to go to verizon for it Jan 08 18:41:24 I only want one for the extra space and ram. Jan 08 18:41:26 $30 more for less of a plan? no thanks >.> Jan 08 18:41:30 ahahahahahahahahaha evas has gles support already Jan 08 18:41:35 rasterman = winner Jan 08 18:41:36 CoolMatty: Someone will probably hack the + to work on sprint. Jan 08 18:41:39 It can't be that hard. Jan 08 18:41:40 i love that guy Jan 08 18:41:42 They're nearly the same. Jan 08 18:42:04 --enable-gl-flavor-gles --enable-gles-variety-sgx Jan 08 18:42:07 CoolMatty: with Verizon, everything is "extra fee" Jan 08 18:42:07 three weeks Jan 08 18:42:09 sure but how will I buy one, ird :p Jan 08 18:42:15 I want more RAM, more flash, better slider, better keyboard Jan 08 18:42:22 ird: my Pre is getting wobbly too, and only about 2 weeks old :-( Jan 08 18:42:24 For someone who uses tethering as seldomly as I do, even having to pay $5 a month more for it is too much. Jan 08 18:42:38 jacques: that's when mine started, but I had one of the originals Jan 08 18:42:56 so if we have opengl and sdl, where's my snes emulation >:( lol Jan 08 18:42:56 CoolMatty: The same way rwhitby got his in Au :p Jan 08 18:43:05 ird: mine has a september build date Jan 08 18:43:23 I really wish I knew more C/C++ so I could port those emulators better now >.> Jan 08 18:43:35 jacques: Does yours wobble even when the slider is closed? Jan 08 18:43:45 ird: i've been using hellanzb on my pre since i got it Jan 08 18:43:47 ird: yes :-( Jan 08 18:43:56 downloading shit from usenet :D Jan 08 18:44:07 usenet FTW Jan 08 18:44:08 ird: Mine moves 1mm when I try to twist it Jan 08 18:44:17 jacques: i need to make a gui for it Jan 08 18:44:22 i will probably do that soon Jan 08 18:44:31 My back piece is also broke. Jan 08 18:44:35 PuffTheMagic: sweeet Jan 08 18:44:43 It makes noises now because someone dropped it and now it won't fit back on right. Jan 08 18:44:44 so now that the app catalog is open im gonna make some sweet utilities for poeple Jan 08 18:44:49 cause i am no game developer Jan 08 18:45:15 people should start making a wish list of shit for me to work on Jan 08 18:45:22 personally I use utils much more than games Jan 08 18:45:29 same here Jan 08 18:45:35 i have consoles for games Jan 08 18:45:40 PuffTheMagic: just port zsnes to the pre and I'm happy. seriously. I will even donate for you to :p Jan 08 18:46:03 zsnes requires asm i think Jan 08 18:46:11 which is way beyond my capabilities Jan 08 18:46:26 does it? i googled and saw a zsnes using sdl, that's all I looked into though Jan 08 18:46:31 either way, some snes emulator Jan 08 18:46:35 doesnt have to be zsnes :p Jan 08 18:46:35 i want MAME Jan 08 18:46:38 we *will* get snes and mame emulators done at some point. Jan 08 18:46:47 I haven't given up on MAME yet Jan 08 18:46:55 vnc/remote desktop would be useful for actually doing work though Jan 08 18:47:03 that too Jan 08 18:47:21 and a replacement / fix for terminal Jan 08 18:47:32 oh, is there a reason Quake/Doom doesn't have music? Jan 08 18:47:36 is it like a MIDI issue or something? Jan 08 18:47:48 PuffTheMagic: SDLemmings Jan 08 18:47:49 :D Jan 08 18:47:53 i can probably get directvnc working Jan 08 18:48:16 we are gonna have to take Palms changes to SDL-video and add them to some other libraries Jan 08 18:48:27 cause there are many fb apps Jan 08 18:48:32 that dont need all the "shit" from SDL Jan 08 18:48:39 DirectFB apps Jan 08 18:48:47 mplayer! lawl Jan 08 18:48:47 they should be able to work too Jan 08 18:49:07 mplayer can output to anything Jan 08 18:49:08 I can't imagine mplayer getting very good performance on the phone Jan 08 18:49:14 if it exists, mplayer will output to it Jan 08 18:49:18 this is true Jan 08 18:49:22 CACA output ftw Jan 08 18:49:31 CoolMatty: why not? Jan 08 18:49:36 CoolMatty: if we make mplayer plugins that use the DSP it will work Jan 08 18:49:40 but why bother Jan 08 18:49:47 when the pre video player should be good enough Jan 08 18:49:53 just extend those capabilities Jan 08 18:50:05 we could also make our own gst based media player Jan 08 18:50:10 if u dont like the stock one Jan 08 18:50:19 all I want is softsub support Jan 08 18:50:22 Does anyone know if they said if the video rec app would have a limit to the length you record? Jan 08 18:50:25 cross fading Jan 08 18:50:32 normalization Jan 08 18:50:33 I can deal with the lack of mkv container or divx support Jan 08 18:50:38 eq Jan 08 18:50:55 I just want ogg and an eq and I'll be happy. Jan 08 18:51:02 CoolMatty: we can add mkv and divx to the Pre player easily Jan 08 18:51:04 Then I can stream all my music to my phone. Jan 08 18:51:07 ird: they never mentioned, but the video they recorded was 37 seconds, so it's at least longer than that :p Jan 08 18:51:09 just need to compile a gst-plugin Jan 08 18:51:18 but it will suck Jan 08 18:51:21 if it dont use the dsp Jan 08 18:51:30 mhmm Jan 08 18:51:36 Did the internals group write a backup application that dumps your information and contacts into a tar/zip file in the usb drive? Jan 08 18:51:47 Someone wrote an alpha one.. Jan 08 18:51:47 mkv would be best, plus softsub support. I'd die happy Jan 08 18:52:02 softsub should be easy to implement i would imagine Jan 08 18:52:03 yeah I remember a backup app being written Jan 08 18:52:13 :( libtool not working on efl right now Jan 08 18:52:14 mkv easier to implement but will just flat out suck Jan 08 18:52:22 yea Jan 08 18:52:40 I'm just a dreamer :p Jan 08 18:54:04 Most mkv I come across are high def.. 720p or 1080p.. I doubt the Pre will ever be able to play those Jan 08 18:54:18 it won't Jan 08 18:54:25 but that's not a problem for me Jan 08 18:54:30 I can downscale them rather easily Jan 08 18:54:44 it's encoding the subs onto the video that's actually hard >.> Jan 08 18:54:58 x264 mp4 should be good enough for everyone Jan 08 18:56:04 jacques: well I guess I'll be patient and agree with you that maybe it's just a misunderstanding over licenses and hope that it can be worked out somehow Jan 08 18:56:06 just not sure how Jan 08 18:56:33 well we can do it homebrew style maybe Jan 08 18:56:40 the docs are public for the DSP Jan 08 18:56:46 so it shouldnt be rocketscience Jan 08 18:57:04 also, you can go kick DocsToGo guys and make them release their full app >.> Jan 08 18:57:07 but i would hate to invest a lot of time on it only for palm to release it as soon as im done Jan 08 18:57:24 I doubt palm will implement mkv/subtitle support Jan 08 18:57:30 considering all the goodwill the palm guys have towards the homebrew community I'm willing to be flexible :) Jan 08 18:57:33 just doesn't seem to be a commonly requested/used feature :p Jan 08 18:58:33 I still am annoyed palm "broke" the lock screen on charging. it used to stay unlocked when charging Jan 08 18:58:34 i wonder how hard it would be to get e17 apps to work in cards :D Jan 08 18:58:54 e17? Jan 08 18:59:08 enlightenment 17 Jan 08 18:59:10 PuffTheMagic, lol e17 is being developed for liek 10 years Jan 08 18:59:15 en0x: yeah i know Jan 08 18:59:17 and never gonna hit stable Jan 08 18:59:17 :p Jan 08 18:59:22 prob not Jan 08 18:59:24 CoolMatty: Just leave the keyboard slider open when charging Jan 08 18:59:27 That's what I do Jan 08 18:59:29 but efl is a wonderful library Jan 08 18:59:36 zorin: doesn't work in 1.3.5. that's what used to do it Jan 08 18:59:37 PuffTheMagic, right Jan 08 18:59:37 :) Jan 08 18:59:44 and it works with fb Jan 08 18:59:45 :D Jan 08 18:59:55 CoolMatty: the unlock stuff needs a lot of work Jan 08 18:59:56 Really? Mine stays unlocked when charging with slider open. Jan 08 19:00:14 yeah, mine will lock itself no matter what now after 1.3.5 Jan 08 19:00:16 it's not cool that it locks and requires unlocks so frequently Jan 08 19:00:25 Hmm, are you using a Touchstone? I'm not, that may be the diff Jan 08 19:00:29 I am Jan 08 19:00:31 CoolMatty: get nodoze from preware Jan 08 19:00:50 I have the never turn off patch, but that's a recipie for dead batteries for someone forgetful like me :p Jan 08 19:01:35 CoolMatty: you want a screen lock enabled, but even when the timeout hits, you want it to not lock if it's on the charger? Jan 08 19:01:36 destinal: i think i need to focus on porting palms SDL_video changes to a DirectFB driver so that DirectFB apps can work with luna like sdl apps Jan 08 19:01:49 PuffTheMagic: that's a great idea Jan 08 19:01:50 destinal: i think that would open up the doors for a LOT of stuff Jan 08 19:01:53 bhern: yes. Jan 08 19:02:06 it shouldn't lock if it's on the charger, unless I press the power button and make it lock Jan 08 19:02:11 ~seen ameng Jan 08 19:02:15 ameng is currently on #webos-internals (3d 17h 45m 8s). Has said a total of 5 messages. Is idling for 2d 15h 17m 20s, last said: 'egaudet: yeah'. Jan 08 19:02:28 destinal: if I get into the PDK I am gonna try and press them for DirectFB support too Jan 08 19:02:43 ameng has a lot of directfb experience Jan 08 19:02:49 ok. i get it. it's contrary to the mode others want so it would need to be something that you'd have a pref for Jan 08 19:03:03 destinal: i will ping him about it after i get settled in my new Apt Jan 08 19:03:07 many (most?) people who use locks want it to trigger if they walk away from a desk or something Jan 08 19:03:10 he did that NPAPI I/O bit (which admittedly never quite got released) Jan 08 19:03:18 but this will work much better Jan 08 19:03:28 bhern: I don't know why anyone would want that, unless you had pin lock on Jan 08 19:03:37 Palm needs to add image editing support for photos Jan 08 19:03:52 crop/resize/rotate/red-eye Jan 08 19:03:52 I want photoshop app for the pre. like iphone's. >.> Jan 08 19:03:53 etc. Jan 08 19:03:58 you don't have lock on at all? Jan 08 19:04:00 PuffTheMagic: there are good dfb terminal programs already Jan 08 19:04:11 destinal: yeah which is one of the reasons i want to do this :D Jan 08 19:04:17 bhern: no, just the usual default "slide to unlock" lock Jan 08 19:04:25 destinal: there are just a shit load of DirectFB apps in general Jan 08 19:04:37 oh. i'm talking about PIN lock ("secure unlock") Jan 08 19:04:47 damn proxy here at work keeps cutting me off Jan 08 19:04:49 I have to go back and read that patch some more Jan 08 19:05:16 yeah i only glanced over it once Jan 08 19:05:28 but i get an idea of what they did Jan 08 19:05:40 why is the palm sdk default app icon so dumb and ugly. this is a major issue, someone complain to palm Jan 08 19:05:51 (just saw it on hte "prefart" app just thrown into preware today) Jan 08 19:05:52 EA tetris is great :D Jan 08 19:05:57 worth the $7 Jan 08 19:05:59 oh you have it? Jan 08 19:06:03 does it have keyborad control? Jan 08 19:06:05 *keyboard Jan 08 19:06:05 no Jan 08 19:06:08 Why? Jan 08 19:06:10 then I'm not getting it >.> Jan 08 19:06:12 touch controls are fine. Jan 08 19:06:31 I can't stand the touch controls for tetris Jan 08 19:06:32 The touch controls are way better than any of the other tetris clones we've seen. Jan 08 19:06:35 hi there. I'll be getting an unlocked GSM pre on Monday :) Jan 08 19:06:42 hooray for me! Jan 08 19:06:55 I tried it on their other tetris app demo, and it drove me nuts. Jan 08 19:07:06 ird: yeah i might get that actually Jan 08 19:07:08 I kept gesturing on accident, stuff not picking up, etc Jan 08 19:07:26 The best version of Tetris ever is still the original Game Boy Tetris. Jan 08 19:07:32 very true Jan 08 19:07:37 game boy version still alive here :D Jan 08 19:07:45 It's not the same without that music Jan 08 19:08:03 speaking of, smash bros brawl has amazing remixes of the original gameboy music Jan 08 19:08:04 should I simply install 1.3.5(.1?) using the doctor or install 1.2.1 and then let the OS update itself? I'm afraid for the baseband, might the 1.2.1 solution try to update the GSM baseband thinking it's a CDMA one? Jan 08 19:08:09 The music is probably (c) Nintendo, though, so no one else can use it. Jan 08 19:08:10 PuffTheMagic: It will definitely get me some action :D Jan 08 19:08:16 I know a girl that will play this for hours. Jan 08 19:08:18 And soduku Jan 08 19:08:26 But I got the free soduku :p Jan 08 19:08:33 *sudoku :p Jan 08 19:08:44 I knew I spelled that wrong. Jan 08 19:08:46 Oh well. Jan 08 19:09:57 are there any free weather apps like accuweather? Jan 08 19:09:58 without the ads. Jan 08 19:10:12 My Pre sometimes "falls off" wifi and can't access the net until I toggleit off and on. Annoying... Jan 08 19:10:26 dunno about lack of ads, but I like the weather channel app Jan 08 19:10:27 my evdo does the same thing Jan 08 19:10:44 it just disapears and wont come back without a reset Jan 08 19:10:50 Zorin: that happens to me, but it's a router issue here. Jan 08 19:10:54 It might be my home AP, though. It has yet to happen at work. Jan 08 19:11:08 Zorin: do you torrent at home? Jan 08 19:11:27 Sometimes, but haven't been lately and it's still happening Jan 08 19:11:29 I found torrents make my router "bounce" every so often Jan 08 19:11:29 my pre used to do a java restart every 30 seconds due to a bug in the email client. I finally switched from POP3 to IMAP and it hasn't happened since, but ugh that was annoying. Jan 08 19:11:45 It's almost always after the pre has been untouched for a few hours and on battery. Jan 08 19:11:47 it would make the phone crawl, and I'd lose phone service, for 25 of those 30 seconds Jan 08 19:12:05 Every other Precentral comment on the CES presentation is "There is no more ram" "yes there is" "nuh-uh" Jan 08 19:12:19 Who cares, the Pre isn't really RAM starved Jan 08 19:12:30 yeah Jan 08 19:12:31 it will be with those 3d games and video record and flash :p Jan 08 19:12:44 Ram is a big deal on websites that have silly amounts of mostly worthless content Jan 08 19:12:48 lol the video I saw, showed a palm representative correcting someone about ram, NO MORE RAM but a better processor Jan 08 19:12:54 like I said before, I doubt the pre itself could handle the demo they did without more RAM. they had it all going at the same time Jan 08 19:12:56 CoolMatty: I don't think they'd alienate their original userbase by releasing software that wouldn't work well on the hardware. Jan 08 19:13:22 oh you can still run it, you just cant run it all at the same time, is my point, ird :p Jan 08 19:13:34 Would be sad if that's the case. Paging to flash is slow. Jan 08 19:13:34 ah, I missed that one. Jan 08 19:13:56 predicting first patch after flash is added: flashblock Jan 08 19:14:03 So far it seems to page around 40MB of stuff out and it stays out. No thrashing Jan 08 19:14:05 I imagine they will release the Pre+ and Pixi+ to sprint eventually. Jan 08 19:14:30 CoolMatty: Hopefully they will have a simple way to disable it when you don't want it. Jan 08 19:14:33 Flash in the power menu! Jan 08 19:14:34 :p Jan 08 19:14:36 lawl Jan 08 19:14:37 er Jan 08 19:14:39 phone menu Jan 08 19:14:45 I actually worry a little about that; flash has limited write cycles; if it's writing to swap all the time, won't it wear out the chip Jan 08 19:14:47 they should do it like most browser flashblock extensions Jan 08 19:14:54 only have it start flash when you click on it Jan 08 19:14:57 Zorin: paging and such is at the whim of the OS, not the apps. So while they can design their apps to only need X amount of ram, they can't restrict the hardware from only using 256 Jan 08 19:15:29 even with sdl? Jan 08 19:15:41 I assumed flash was written via their pdk Jan 08 19:15:47 I can't comment on the SDK games are using Jan 08 19:15:51 Flash is also another beast Jan 08 19:16:30 An easier way to handle that anyway would be to have different texture sets or such, if we're talking games Jan 08 19:16:52 Though that's typically a vram thing (I don't know enough about the power vr) Jan 08 19:17:09 eh, the flash memory only has to last 2 years anyway, by then you will be getting the Pre++ Jan 08 19:18:37 nfs works in portrait? Jan 08 19:18:46 owait Jan 08 19:18:48 I don't think any of the games do Jan 08 19:18:53 It just looked like it. Jan 08 19:19:03 I forgot the camera moves when you turn Jan 08 19:22:15 is there sdl-ttf support on the device? Jan 08 19:22:21 Anyone come up with some swag ideas? sticker images? Jan 08 19:22:28 CoolMatty: no flashblock, you'll have to activate flash manually per page we think' Jan 08 19:22:49 by tapping Jan 08 19:23:57 oilsworkn: your name is a lie Jan 08 19:24:02 :) Jan 08 19:24:03 you're slacking Jan 08 19:24:07 i am Jan 08 19:24:08 :) Jan 08 19:24:16 my boss is on vacation for this week and next Jan 08 19:25:13 * oilsworkn has been wondering what all the PDK will contain Jan 08 19:25:19 oilsworkn: so you tell me, now that we have this world of native stuff awaiting us, what do we need to do next? Jan 08 19:25:27 * destinal is going to Disneyland! Jan 08 19:25:33 err... or not Jan 08 19:25:36 obviously the SDL stuff Jan 08 19:25:50 which SDL stuff though Jan 08 19:25:55 webos-internals developer convention in hawaii Jan 08 19:25:59 The stuff like people have been doing for quake Jan 08 19:26:10 just port more apps? Jan 08 19:26:10 where the buffer or whatever is put in card form Jan 08 19:26:13 but not really a mojo card Jan 08 19:26:19 like you could do with a browser plugin Jan 08 19:26:27 or a service Jan 08 19:26:33 i guess im just hoping it covers all 3 Jan 08 19:26:44 well kind of not really Jan 08 19:26:49 brb Jan 08 19:26:54 lol Jan 08 19:27:34 I wonder if the introduciton of OpenGL on webos means that we'll not see WebGL Jan 08 19:27:42 after all, why bother with WebGL if you can do OpenGL Jan 08 19:29:15 I was never too excited about WebGL Jan 08 19:29:29 seen lt83850c Jan 08 19:29:37 nebula: any word on your Pre? Jan 08 19:29:38 :D Jan 08 19:29:42 no Jan 08 19:29:45 me either.. Jan 08 19:32:06 nebula: starting to think we were had Jan 08 19:32:18 but I don't see what we were had over :p Jan 08 19:32:45 nothing much Jan 08 19:33:00 it's all logged Jan 08 19:33:21 He said charged would show up in 24hrs Jan 08 19:33:26 and I still don't see anything on my account. Jan 08 19:33:52 oil: any ideaa yet? Jan 08 19:33:52 for specifics Jan 08 19:34:10 like what do you want to see most? Jan 08 19:34:24 egaudet_work: ping Jan 08 19:34:27 * destinal-wirc needs inspiration Jan 08 19:37:20 love http://www.miniclip.com/games/canyon-defense/en/ Jan 08 19:41:33 has anyone started trying to document the webos hooks added in the palm sdl patches? Jan 08 19:42:08 destinal-wirc: sorry, i was actually workn' :) Jan 08 19:42:19 really, someone was trying to explain a problem to me Jan 08 19:42:35 but i don't have anything to do with that system, so i told them to ask someone who does Jan 08 19:42:36 lol Jan 08 19:42:43 oil: no fair Jan 08 19:42:54 hehe Jan 08 19:43:15 no fair working when you should be slacking Jan 08 19:43:25 as far as what to see from PDK Jan 08 19:43:26 idk Jan 08 19:43:35 it seems like it will be good for 3d games Jan 08 19:43:47 more Jan 08 19:43:51 Who's over the dynamic dns updater app? Jan 08 19:43:52 but has no webos-style visual styles Jan 08 19:43:55 no app menu Jan 08 19:44:06 well, from what we've seen anyways Jan 08 19:44:09 no integration with webos Jan 08 19:44:12 more just its own card Jan 08 19:44:21 self contained thing Jan 08 19:44:26 right Jan 08 19:44:32 which kind of sucks Jan 08 19:44:45 hopefully palm will bring that stuff over Jan 08 19:44:46 I hope palms pdk has npapo stuff Jan 08 19:44:51 npapi Jan 08 19:44:55 right Jan 08 19:45:03 then you could put mojo right ontop of it Jan 08 19:45:10 or use it for the heavy processing of the mojo app Jan 08 19:45:22 personally i like the webos look Jan 08 19:45:35 the buttons and lists and everything Jan 08 19:46:18 and you could submit terminal to the app catalog Jan 08 19:46:19 lol Jan 08 19:46:33 db over? also why an app? pppd already automatically runs a cript and provides the necessary details as variables. easypeasy with curl (the fake wget isn't good enough but curls built in and is good enough) Jan 08 19:47:41 though a gui front end to write that script would make it a lot simpler for users Jan 08 19:47:57 KEYofR: what are you talking about? Jan 08 19:48:00 * oilsworkn missed something? Jan 08 19:48:10 " Who's over the dynamic dns updater app?" Jan 08 19:48:55 KEYofR: there is one.. I saw it in the preware build scripts the other day Jan 08 19:48:59 I just can't find it now Jan 08 19:49:18 and I wanted to add DNS Made Easy to the list of services it allows for Jan 08 19:49:47 ah i have dnsmadeeasy myself which its one of the examples on the wiki page Jan 08 19:50:08 KEYofR: i know.. I have shell scripts that do it Jan 08 19:50:09 (im bkw) Jan 08 19:50:34 I just wanted to make it an option in that application to automatically do it in a gui Jan 08 19:51:35 here it is Jan 08 19:51:47 Optware: EZ-Ipupdate Jan 08 19:51:54 clarify: you are talking about an app that writes a pppd hook script or an app that monitors? Jan 08 19:52:41 http://git.webos-internals.org/?p=preware/build.git;a=blob;f=optware/ez-ipupdate/Makefile;h=f31d07bf6d3f01b631c70ed3a834b72480fc32d7;hb=HEAD Jan 08 19:52:42 ok in between, exipupdate runs and exits, but it's still sort of an unnecessary app as far as I can tell Jan 08 19:52:45 that was what I was talking about Jan 08 19:53:15 yeah, I see what it does now.. I'll just stick to the current way of doing it with pppd Jan 08 19:53:29 unless it handles sites that have more pain in the neck protocols than a url Jan 08 19:53:53 yeah, dnsmadeeasy is easy as pie Jan 08 20:05:49 thats probably actuallly an ideal beginner webos app devel project. Not exotic, not trivial exactly, and _useful_. (front end to write the pppd hook script) Jan 08 20:07:06 hmm, there a usable turn by turn nav for the pre yet? Jan 08 20:07:21 sprint nav? :p Jan 08 20:07:23 bog standard google maps is getting up my nose now Jan 08 20:07:26 LMFAOO Jan 08 20:07:33 Marajin_: are u in the US Jan 08 20:07:34 ? Jan 08 20:07:57 spring nav sucks Jan 08 20:08:03 TEEN REPELLENT! Jan 08 20:08:07 so awesome Jan 08 20:08:09 sprint nav is great for the price >.> Jan 08 20:08:13 actually I think it might be the compas feature on the pre itself that sucks Jan 08 20:08:23 the pre doesn't have a compass Jan 08 20:08:24 sprint nav never knows which direction I'm facing Jan 08 20:08:31 so it's always having me do uturns Jan 08 20:08:39 minimap knows which way your facing Jan 08 20:08:40 prototypic: lmfao Jan 08 20:08:42 well that's a big fail Jan 08 20:08:42 it can only tell what direction you're going based off your current and last position of GPS Jan 08 20:09:25 yeah well, sprint nav will render maps for the UK but only at high altitudes Jan 08 20:09:26 and it won't navigate :p Jan 08 20:09:31 so yeah, no compass obviously means it can't tell which way you're facing :p Jan 08 20:11:24 atlanta: no, UK Jan 08 20:12:39 my real gps still needs motion to know which way I face. Do any have a compass? worth a damn? Jan 08 20:12:51 KEYofR: nope Jan 08 20:13:24 haha so its a big fail the same as every other gps heh ok Jan 08 20:13:40 minimap will render UK Jan 08 20:13:50 no compass on pre Jan 08 20:14:01 minimap approximates one for you tho Jan 08 20:14:02 iphone 3gs is the only thing I can think of with an actual compass Jan 08 20:14:06 well, no other gps gets a confused as the pre Jan 08 20:14:11 even the shitty tomtom Jan 08 20:14:11 and let me tell you, that compass is not exactly useful even then Jan 08 20:14:26 mine's never gotten confused so :/ Jan 08 20:14:29 clearly you've never used nokia's n810/n900 GPS then Jan 08 20:14:58 sprint nav is just an interface for telenav btw Jan 08 20:16:14 maybe the issue is that it's not really gps but triangulation and maybe your position jitters a little every time the set of cell towers in your range chages. Jan 08 20:16:48 if it's using cell towers for location you're not going to be anywhere near where it says you are Jan 08 20:18:13 nah it's gps Jan 08 20:18:15 so, say, you move and drop off a tower, gain another, or both, and the triangulation shifts slightly, which to the system looks like you shifted slightly, but in some random direction, meaning, for a split second here & there, your direction of motion seemed to change then change back Jan 08 20:18:23 wild-ass-guess btw Jan 08 20:19:17 what would tower changes have to do with GPS which uses satellites for position? :p Jan 08 20:19:30 the cell towers are only needed for assisted GPS math calculations, nothing more Jan 08 20:20:02 (unless it's unable to get a GPS fix, then it'll try cell triangulation, but as I said, you won't be anywhere near where it says you are with that, it's only accurate within a few hundred meters most of the time) Jan 08 20:26:24 no pages on the wiki have NFS in them! =( Jan 08 20:26:42 GPS accuracy on my Pre seemed to go down with the 1.3.5 update Jan 08 20:27:14 Mousey: network file system? Jan 08 20:27:21 I think we should start calling the game NFSU Jan 08 20:27:24 linuxjacques: isn't that what NFS means? Jan 08 20:27:29 oooh NFSU Jan 08 20:27:30 to disambiguate Jan 08 20:27:34 NO WONDER Jan 08 20:27:47 Anyone around to help me locate the service for freetether rwhitby said it was in armvt but i dont know which one it is? Jan 08 20:28:00 armv7* Jan 08 20:28:50 CoolMatty: the G1 has a compass Jan 08 20:29:29 Mousey: you are trying to use NFS on the Pre and it's not working? Jan 08 20:29:30 There is a guy in another network where i op at that try to tell me G1 is better than Pre Jan 08 20:29:38 heh Jan 08 20:29:45 It has more software choice Jan 08 20:29:49 but otherwise.. um, no Jan 08 20:29:50 isnt hte g1 like 2 years old? Jan 08 20:29:51 destinal-wirc: would you have any idea how to make sure that libtoolize copies the right libtool into the source dir? Jan 08 20:29:57 KEYofR: where is that wiki page for the dnsmadeeasy ip update? Jan 08 20:30:10 i'm having an issue where my system has libtool 2.2 installed Jan 08 20:30:14 but sb2 uses 1.5.26 Jan 08 20:30:15 linuxjacques: well if you mean Network File System, then sure. but uh, i haven't gotten anywhere, since NFS in this channel doesn't mean what i think it means Jan 08 20:30:16 http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Tutorials_Linux_DDNS_Update_Client_wget Jan 08 20:30:24 and it's creating errors Jan 08 20:33:00 Mousey: I had the Pre mounting NFS from my desktop the other day. Is that what you're trying to do? Jan 08 20:33:07 what's not working? Jan 08 20:33:42 xcomp: what operating system are you doing this on? it would probably help me to be able to reproduce Jan 08 20:33:43 it's mis-named because it existed already before I fixed it. Jan 08 20:33:45 linuxjacques: that can be done? do i just need to install portmap and whatnot? Jan 08 20:33:54 destinal: mandriva Jan 08 20:33:59 linuxjacques: this is ipkg-opt packages i'm betting Jan 08 20:34:00 latest? Jan 08 20:34:02 yeah Jan 08 20:34:04 * Mousey searches for autofs Jan 08 20:34:46 xcomp: free or full version, and do you think it matters Jan 08 20:34:56 free, but it doesn't matter Jan 08 20:35:02 Mousey: I thought I was missing something, but when I mounted with "-o nolock" it just worked Jan 08 20:35:05 they use the same packages Jan 08 20:35:40 holy cow, there's an NFS server too!? Jan 08 20:35:48 I was trying to compile eina and eet for evas Jan 08 20:36:14 I can get around it by manually copying sb2's arm libtool over it after configure completes Jan 08 20:36:33 but I think it should probably be fixed Jan 08 20:36:36 wonder if there is anyone maintaining big old wamba list/db/wiki of dynamic dns update urls Jan 08 20:36:58 Mousey: I didn't try NFS serving from the Pre Jan 08 20:37:42 xcomp: what distro/version are you running scratchbox2 in? Jan 08 20:37:53 linuxjacques: mandriva cooker Jan 08 20:38:00 Any devs in here making their apps multi language? Jan 08 20:38:42 xcomp: I tried for a bit with Fedora12 and for expediency ended up running sb2 in an ubuntu server 9.10 VM Jan 08 20:39:25 linuxjacques: yeah ... I don't give up easily. I eventually got sb2 to work by compiling qemu from source Jan 08 20:39:25 boo Jan 08 20:39:31 no autofs or automount Jan 08 20:39:51 cashen007: I think you're looking for #webos Jan 08 20:39:53 xcomp: even though ubuntu 9.10 is what's officially supported, I'd like to be able to understand what tends to break it on other platforms Jan 08 20:40:04 so I'll try it in mandriva Jan 08 20:40:34 xcomp: eventually I'm going to get the sb2 build system working in F12 and gentoo. I just needed something up fast with minimal variables to confirm the work others were doing Jan 08 20:40:39 and by officially supported, I mean what we've chosen to officially support :) Jan 08 20:41:02 destinal: You should probably note that the qemu-arm7 binary package on mandriva was crashing for me Jan 08 20:41:15 xcomp: did you figure that out? Jan 08 20:41:31 yeah, I built from source and the crashing stopped Jan 08 20:41:37 linuxjacques: f12 = Fedora 12? Jan 08 20:41:43 i did build the later version Jan 08 20:41:49 so it might be a bugfix in qemu Jan 08 20:41:56 I found out that fedora did ... things ... to their qemu packages which made them not work. building from source worked. Jan 08 20:42:00 destinal: yep Jan 08 20:42:03 i'll see about submitting a bug report to the package maintainer Jan 08 20:42:14 wow Ares is pretty slick Jan 08 20:42:17 holy crap, the entire python2.5 was just loaded on.. yay i can python interpreter from my phone! Jan 08 20:42:21 You get a FC package working let me know I'll clone it to opensuse build service in minutes. Jan 08 20:43:22 PuffTheMagic: yeah, I haven't played with ares yet but have heard good things. it's nice for me who has relatively little CSS / html5 / javascript to think that I may be able to throw together some quick apps Jan 08 20:43:25 gah ... why does ultravnc not handle clipboard properly Jan 08 20:43:26 that would be completely sweet. yknow,... for me ;) Jan 08 20:43:38 i just logged into it for the first time Jan 08 20:44:10 destinal: it doesn't do all the html css and javascript Jan 08 20:44:18 it pretty much does just the html Jan 08 20:44:20 but not really Jan 08 20:44:52 eh? but I thought the demo had the guy putting togther some cool app in 10 minutes in a video Jan 08 20:44:52 it creates a json file that tells the ares stuff how to generate the html Jan 08 20:44:57 same here ... not much of a javascript person, I'm much more comfortable around native code Jan 08 20:44:59 you still have to do write the js that makes it work Jan 08 20:45:02 ah Jan 08 20:45:07 you still have to write and custom css Jan 08 20:45:14 which is why I suddenly got real interested after 1.3.5 Jan 08 20:45:14 it just uses palms default stuff Jan 08 20:47:47 I'm still of the belief that certain categories of apps are still far better done in mojo Jan 08 20:48:00 that is, most things except graphics intensive apps and games Jan 08 20:48:07 right Jan 08 20:48:34 but hopefully the pdk does npapi Jan 08 20:48:38 and services Jan 08 20:48:45 yup, here's hoping Jan 08 20:48:58 can't a npapi plugin talk to js? Jan 08 20:49:23 like, instead of ipkgservice, it could be a plugin that would do the extra stuff and return it to js? Jan 08 20:49:31 or is it only for displaying stuff Jan 08 20:50:06 i hope the next HW change for palm will include the dual-core ARM Cortex A9 CPU Jan 08 20:51:07 not a quad-core Armada? Jan 08 20:51:27 when is the PDK available? Jan 08 20:51:29 what about a cell processor? Jan 08 20:51:38 heh Jan 08 20:51:39 xD Jan 08 20:51:54 linuxjacques: months? Jan 08 20:52:26 oh :-| Jan 08 20:52:46 they have an email you can request early access Jan 08 20:52:53 on the pdk page on their site Jan 08 20:53:25 but again, who knows when that happens Jan 08 20:53:29 page says march for open beta Jan 08 20:53:42 around the time for game dev conference Jan 08 20:53:51 right, gdc Jan 08 20:53:52 oil: I think I shall request early access, depending on the conditions Jan 08 20:54:11 is gdc going to be in austin? i think i can get some tickets Jan 08 20:54:13 jacques: the email is at the bottom of the pdk page Jan 08 20:54:22 ali1: no clue Jan 08 20:54:25 hmm. maybe it's better to not have early access. it may limit what I can do with webos-internals Jan 08 20:54:37 oil: thanks for the info Jan 08 20:54:40 np Jan 08 20:54:43 arg its san francisco Jan 08 20:54:57 damn. I am 2.5 hrs from austin Jan 08 20:57:07 * oil is a lot further then that Jan 08 20:57:09 I would have thought the video edit would have been better than just cropping Jan 08 20:57:09 lol Jan 08 20:57:15 oil: npapi can talk to javascript Jan 08 20:57:30 do we have a gui started for upstart manager Jan 08 20:57:39 Maybe they didnt want anything more than crop so 3rd party apps would pop up Jan 08 20:57:42 i am gonna dothat in ares Jan 08 20:57:43 :D Jan 08 20:58:11 ali1: i expected Jan 08 20:58:13 what does the video editing app on iphone do? Jan 08 20:58:21 so you can just include the object and hide it Jan 08 20:58:28 and talk to it to do the extra processing Jan 08 20:58:43 virtualbox may have its quirks, but it is pretty awesome also Jan 08 20:59:01 PuffTheMagic: i wrote the little launcher script Jan 08 20:59:11 but there is no interface, its literally 60 lines Jan 08 20:59:12 oil: launcher scriot? Jan 08 20:59:19 for the sdl stuff everyone was doing Jan 08 20:59:30 PuffTheMagic: before we figured out type=game Jan 08 20:59:33 right Jan 08 20:59:45 yeah im not talking about htat Jan 08 20:59:55 i always planned onmaking a gui for upstart Jan 08 20:59:59 and a prope service Jan 08 21:00:01 proper Jan 08 21:00:08 so im gonna do that Jan 08 21:00:11 :D Jan 08 21:00:15 whats wrong with the other service? Jan 08 21:00:17 hmm, I was googling up DOSBox on smartphones to see how others have ported it, and interesting I found that the iPhone folks still haven't ported it! Jan 08 21:00:20 besides maybe being incomplete? Jan 08 21:00:28 oil: he wants to do IPC, I totally agree Jan 08 21:00:35 dBsooner: pong Jan 08 21:00:38 yeah its not using the IPC Jan 08 21:00:45 which would give us async events Jan 08 21:00:48 egaudet_work: nm.. it was a long time ago. Jan 08 21:00:50 synackfin1: apple doesn't let emulators on their device Jan 08 21:00:50 instead of polling and sys calls Jan 08 21:00:57 Does anyone else feel sony ericsson has nothing? Jan 08 21:01:16 oil: but the jailbreak community still hadn't succesfully ported it Jan 08 21:01:26 right Jan 08 21:01:35 they probably just hate dos Jan 08 21:01:46 synackfin1: I analyzed that core, it's really ugly / nonhelpful Jan 08 21:01:48 oil: hah, maybe. But there are _so_ many great games for it! Jan 08 21:01:55 i have it installed on my pc Jan 08 21:01:58 and the whole app is c++ Jan 08 21:01:59 JUST for scorched earth Jan 08 21:01:59 destinal: can you email me the core stacktrace? Jan 08 21:02:20 synackfin1: email? Jan 08 21:02:22 destinal: libSDL is in C++, I noticed all the .cc files. DOSBox is vanilla C though Jan 08 21:02:27 no, it's not Jan 08 21:02:35 async events FTW Jan 08 21:02:37 it's built with g++ and all cpp files Jan 08 21:02:42 anyone else request the necessary headers from Palm for libSDL build? Jan 08 21:03:07 destinal: really? Hmm. okay. well, did you add a try { } catch { } block inside main() to see what the char* exception msg weas? Jan 08 21:03:07 I mean they only need to give us the portions of the headers required to build libSDL, not the entire header if they don't want to right Jan 08 21:04:57 oil: haha, scorched earth is a good game. Master of Orion, Civilization, Railroad Tycoon, King's Quest V, and Might & Magic World of Xeen are some more great games for DOS Jan 08 21:05:25 oil: ScummVM unfortunately doesn't handle the new Sierra games like KQV :( Jan 08 21:05:40 oil: "new" as in post-1989 Jan 08 21:05:42 egaudet: right, just what we need to compile it Jan 08 21:06:03 I haven't asked Jan 08 21:06:15 hoped someone else would since I got a dead end last attempt Jan 08 21:07:14 I sent an email Jan 08 21:08:06 synackfin1: what do you think of the backtrace? Jan 08 21:09:51 synackfin1: err here also http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m25ed2aa Jan 08 21:11:19 destinal: strange that ticksScheduled did not save the PC Jan 08 21:11:31 destinal: is ticksScheduled() a DOSBox function ? Jan 08 21:11:33 How does Android open source compare to say WebOS Jan 08 21:12:03 egaudet: you mean open source apps for Android, or the fact that most of Android is open source? Jan 08 21:12:47 egaudet: a lot of the java/dalvik apps are closed source Jan 08 21:13:06 Do we have any information on how we create a service in webos Jan 08 21:13:16 CTLAdvance: yes Jan 08 21:13:21 destinal: I found it, it's in DOSBox, http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=ticksScheduled&hl=en Jan 08 21:13:40 CTLAdvance: there are examples in the git repository, it's not very well documented on the wiki at the moment Jan 08 21:14:04 I still have the original battle chess for doss. love it. it even had a cga version in the box with the vga version. Jan 08 21:14:05 destinal: hmm, it's only a variable, not a function Jan 08 21:14:07 CGA Jan 08 21:14:17 destinal: I don't understand why "ticksScheduled" is showing up a stackframe in the core Jan 08 21:14:40 Thanks destinal - what is the link for the repository Jan 08 21:15:11 CTLAdvance: http://git.webos-internals.org/ Jan 08 21:15:22 destinal: my guess is a corrupted stack. Did you try increasing the stack size? ulimit -s unlimited Jan 08 21:16:28 will try Jan 08 21:17:49 destinal: I'd also `nm` the dosbox binary, libs, and palm libs to see if anything defines the "ticksScheduled" function Jan 08 21:18:11 destinal: but it doesn't seem to be a function in the dosbox src, only a variable Jan 08 21:19:19 synackfin1: ah, looks like it must have exhausted the stack last time, this time it's still running but basically hanging the pre. Jan 08 21:19:35 synackfin1: it still did "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'char*'" Jan 08 21:19:40 but kept running Jan 08 21:19:56 there's a black screen and a mouse cursor that does nothing Jan 08 21:19:59 Are the projects on the git site open source I would assume? Jan 08 21:20:22 hola peeps Jan 08 21:20:24 Anyways thank you... Jan 08 21:20:30 Darth poop? Jan 08 21:20:35 what do you think now DarthPooh Jan 08 21:20:38 How original Jan 08 21:20:39 CTLAdvance: yes they are open source Jan 08 21:20:41 oh gotcha Jan 08 21:20:57 about what egaudet? Jan 08 21:21:11 Thanks Destinal Jan 08 21:21:29 we should bundle wirc with preware and have a "live support" button go to #preware-support Jan 08 21:21:47 heh, who's going to do the support? Jan 08 21:21:55 zsoc: hell no Jan 08 21:21:57 CTLAdvance: ipkgservice is java service and what makes preware work, ledservice and wircd are C services Jan 08 21:21:59 dtzWill|away: quake overlays = full of rockstar Jan 08 21:22:00 lots of good examples Jan 08 21:22:03 zsoc: not making it that easy for AM's to get here Jan 08 21:22:06 they still need to wrap up the webos GUI in their own PDK and offer more options (without the need for patches) Jan 08 21:22:07 we should put a bot on #preware-support Jan 08 21:22:30 PuffTheMagic: not here, a support channel. and we can charge like $5 for the 'support' version Jan 08 21:22:38 lol Jan 08 21:22:38 yeah ok, I'm totally high. n/m Jan 08 21:23:00 infobot: my pr3wareZ wonrt instalX0R Jan 08 21:23:11 synackfin1: looks like it eventually segfaults anyway but takes a lot longer Jan 08 21:23:15 PuffTheMagic: so what crazy native game are we working on? Jan 08 21:23:18 infobot: whut shud i do? Jan 08 21:23:28 zsoc: im not working on games Jan 08 21:23:46 PuffTheMagic: ok, lol. back to wirc/freetether? :) Jan 08 21:24:05 does anyone elses battery suck ass btw? Jan 08 21:24:12 zsoc: wIRC def, freeTether probably, upstart, and other 'productive' tools Jan 08 21:24:18 zsoc: latex editor maybe :D Jan 08 21:24:25 lulz@latex Jan 08 21:24:37 zsoc: full pdflatex suite? Jan 08 21:24:46 Lumiere: thats the plan Jan 08 21:24:49 latex suit huh? Jan 08 21:24:49 :D Jan 08 21:24:51 LOL Jan 08 21:24:56 beamer makes sweet slide shows Jan 08 21:25:01 PuffTheMagic: you're insane Jan 08 21:25:02 who's the troll? Jan 08 21:25:04 and i write papers with it Jan 08 21:25:08 Lumiere: it would be easy Jan 08 21:25:17 nextgen webos device better have an lcos projector Jan 08 21:25:21 I know, you're still insane Jan 08 21:25:27 which troll? Jan 08 21:25:34 does webos have any sort of inline spell checker? Jan 08 21:25:38 PuffTheMagic: some guy on precentral wanted openoffice Jan 08 21:25:39 DarthPooh: turn off gps and you'll dobule it Jan 08 21:25:48 Lumiere: yeah, I Jan 08 21:25:50 have Jan 08 21:25:54 openoffice is portable. i'l talk to calc. Jan 08 21:25:55 I think it Jan 08 21:26:02 is my weak signal in my house Jan 08 21:26:13 I do ok until I play quake Jan 08 21:26:19 quake kills my battery :) Jan 08 21:26:24 lol Jan 08 21:26:36 zsoc: baaa with openoffice Jan 08 21:26:44 I think quake will use less power once we get 3d acces working Jan 08 21:26:47 ipkg-opt install openoffice.org Jan 08 21:26:48 R for my stats and Latex for my writing Jan 08 21:26:50 PuffTheMagic: ok then :) Jan 08 21:26:54 and maybe a spread sheet tool Jan 08 21:26:57 gnumeric port Jan 08 21:26:57 s/acces/accel/ Jan 08 21:26:57 jacques meant: I think quake will use less power once we get 3d accel working Jan 08 21:26:58 :D Jan 08 21:27:00 openoffice would kill the palm... I think it'd be too much Jan 08 21:27:17 but what an AWESOME death1 Jan 08 21:27:18 I actually think Java SDL apps might be interesting Jan 08 21:27:22 then we can port java things Jan 08 21:27:23 OpenOffice is kind of bloated itself Jan 08 21:27:32 jacques: hey now, we just got it working well with sdl :p Jan 08 21:27:43 I'd rather see something like abiword+gnumeric :) Jan 08 21:27:46 zsoc: I'm not complaining. Jan 08 21:27:47 OpenOfficeSDL Jan 08 21:27:48 (not gonna happen) Jan 08 21:27:55 i wonder if we can run xfce in a card Jan 08 21:28:02 * Mousey still holds out for jabber and syncml Jan 08 21:28:03 jacques: and by 'we' I mean Will := Jan 08 21:28:05 dang...having to compile libungif and jpeglib Jan 08 21:28:30 PuffTheMagic: xfce supports fb? Jan 08 21:28:35 er, fbdev Jan 08 21:28:43 gtk-sdl Jan 08 21:28:55 Thanks destinal, ill keep that in mind Jan 08 21:29:11 really? wait is gtk-sdl a wrapper for anything gtk? Jan 08 21:29:31 you can use just about anything with sdl using a window hack/trick Jan 08 21:29:45 did webos get the 1.4 advance yet? Jan 08 21:29:55 errr webos internals Jan 08 21:30:01 what is this trick called? 'make a surface' ? :p Jan 08 21:30:19 I havent heard 1.4 being released yet to nda members Jan 08 21:30:20 DarthPooh: we could tell you, but then we'd have to kill ourselves Jan 08 21:30:28 Mousey: jabber should be easy... google talk == jabber Jan 08 21:30:42 well, listen whatever you gotta do afterwards is fines by me ;) Jan 08 21:30:50 DarthPooh: lol Jan 08 21:30:51 Lumiere: there's a check in palm's service for "@gmail.com" Jan 08 21:31:15 I know, but it should be doable Jan 08 21:31:21 and not that difficultly Jan 08 21:31:28 Lumiere: totally lame and laforge came up with a binary patch to change the jump if not equal to unconditional Jan 08 21:31:37 or something like that Jan 08 21:31:48 oh they put the check into the library Jan 08 21:31:49 lame Jan 08 21:35:19 i'm a little upset that Android got flash before webOS Jan 08 21:36:06 but at least they will get it before iPhoneOS Jan 08 21:37:07 sup everyone Jan 08 21:37:41 DarthPooh: if android is running something more similar to standard linux... they may not have had much to do so it was a no-brainer Jan 08 21:38:23 Lumiere: that's a joke right? Jan 08 21:38:34 only somewhat :) Jan 08 21:38:38 i hope Jan 08 21:38:44 androids stack being 'more similar to linux' than webos? Jan 08 21:39:06 zsoc: I don't know enough about the android ui to know... Jan 08 21:39:13 It isnt about UI Jan 08 21:39:14 it Jan 08 21:39:18 its about kernal Jan 08 21:39:22 err kernel Jan 08 21:39:27 stupid mini keyboard Jan 08 21:39:35 mini keyboard? Jan 08 21:39:42 dell mini 9 Jan 08 21:39:52 ah Jan 08 21:40:11 yah perked up for that eh? Jan 08 21:40:35 no i was reading, just had nothing to say Jan 08 21:40:42 until i was curious Jan 08 21:41:11 as far as I have been able to tell so far, the Pre has the closest thing to 'standard linux' of any mobile device Jan 08 21:41:17 be it phone or other Jan 08 21:41:44 its a fairly standard linux distro... Jan 08 21:41:55 cryptk: more standard than maemo? Jan 08 21:43:12 mobile phones based off linux are simplier in some ways due to less scripting than full blown OS's except they are getting fairly close to being full OS's now (i.e. Android and iPhoneOS on tablets) Jan 08 21:43:20 i think of webOS as the osx of embedded systems .. open source underneath (darwin), but the UI is all closed off other than hooks Jan 08 21:43:56 jacques, maemo may be more 'standard' I have never used one Jan 08 21:44:22 DarthPooh: did you just insinuate that linux distros are NOT "full blown OS's"? Jan 08 21:44:32 x11 up next? Jan 08 21:45:02 egaudet: lol, I meant scripting for the GUI not the distros themselves Jan 08 21:45:26 I agree with egaudet_work,just cause it doesn't run X11 and gnome doesn't make it a non-full blown OS Jan 08 21:45:32 oh you were talking about the existing mobile phones Jan 08 21:45:50 but yea same point holds, it's still a full blown OS Jan 08 21:45:52 yerp Jan 08 21:46:25 and we were talking about getting flash to work with those distros with the GUI Jan 08 21:46:58 and I said I was just disappointed Android got it first... considering Adobe was working fairly close with Palm Jan 08 21:46:59 * xcomp tries to dance around AC_CHECK_LIB fails Jan 08 21:47:07 yea well the Flash needs to be ported to those OS's true Jan 08 21:47:08 * oilsworkn doesn't download flash plugin from catalog when its released :) Jan 08 21:47:13 the lack of conceptual understanding in this channel right now is astounding Jan 08 21:47:28 cute zsoc Jan 08 21:47:33 yea well we'll be getting a lot in the next couple of months, not too much further away Jan 08 21:47:42 zsoc: well, not everyone is an elite webos hacker extraordinaire Jan 08 21:47:47 zsoc: you got me a 1.1 demo yet Jan 08 21:48:05 egaudet_work: 1.1 is broken Jan 08 21:48:17 zsoc: it's not broken, we just don't know how to use it yet Jan 08 21:48:35 it -can't- be broken, unless the app cat games are statically linking Jan 08 21:48:42 it didn't seem broken when I was playing NFSU last night Jan 08 21:48:46 but they aren't they are using 1.1 so Jan 08 21:48:48 oilsworkn: I want to see Palm give up "elite webos hacker extraordinaire" badges to folks Jan 08 21:49:01 zsoc would be the only one Jan 08 21:49:04 Maybe we need something to call and set up the egl to use 1.1 API or something I dunno Jan 08 21:49:39 I don't think so.. it's just odd. I need to look through the patch again Jan 08 21:49:51 considering 2.0 works out of the box (doomtriangle), and 1.1 doesn't (at least none of us can make a demo), but we know 1.1 works (NFS and games)... Jan 08 21:50:04 we _think_ that Jan 08 21:50:11 so did palm remove ad-hoc support in the drivers? Jan 08 21:50:12 we think what? Jan 08 21:50:16 I stated all facts Jan 08 21:52:02 whee, evas is compiling, finally Jan 08 21:55:29 :/ Jan 08 21:55:36 egaudet_work: I just don't have enough faith in the tools we used to see linked libraries because I don't undestand how they work. if you're certain tho, I trust you Jan 08 21:57:43 so you think they could be statically linking a different library zsoc ? Jan 08 21:58:04 NFSU is dynamically linking the *CM.so lib Jan 08 21:58:09 egaudet_work: or libgles_cm isn't standard. Jan 08 21:58:34 have we checksummed anything? Jan 08 21:58:41 zsoc: that would mean they changed API why would they do that Jan 08 21:58:45 egaudet_work: disassemble NfS and follow the function calls in the initialization .. Jan 08 21:59:00 I disassemble'd glyder Jan 08 21:59:04 do you have NFS bpadalino|work ? Jan 08 21:59:09 i didn't buy any games Jan 08 21:59:11 glyder works too Jan 08 21:59:18 check for main() Jan 08 21:59:24 and see what it calls Jan 08 21:59:27 glyder is good enough for me, yeah Jan 08 21:59:31 did they strip out all their symbols ? Jan 08 22:00:01 * jacques has NFSU Jan 08 22:00:15 I see glyder's specific c++ symbols Jan 08 22:00:16 ... Jan 08 22:00:34 jacques: use your binutils and find main() ... check for function calls for setting things up Jan 08 22:00:44 so it seems like they aren't stripped Jan 08 22:00:51 bpadalino|work: yep I was planning on doing that tonight Jan 08 22:01:02 nice Jan 08 22:01:20 I will say this. I'm surprised that some large game developers don't strip out their symbols. Jan 08 22:01:30 but it's good for us Jan 08 22:01:56 egaudet_work: why would they change api? it seems like they did anyway (or gles1.1 would work) Jan 08 22:02:36 zsoc: why would they change 1.1 API and leave 2.0. It's more likely just need some sort of initialization sequence to get 1.1 API to work properly no? Jan 08 22:03:06 I can't even find the SDL_Init in disassembled glyder Jan 08 22:03:49 egaudet_work: try EGLSurface Jan 08 22:03:56 it may not use sdl at all Jan 08 22:04:19 or EGLConfig / EGLDisplay Jan 08 22:04:19 grep SDL_Init xplane_default shows a hit Jan 08 22:05:40 SDL_Init is in glyder, I just don't see the symbol in the disassembly Jan 08 22:06:12 what are good options to use for objdump aside from -d Jan 08 22:06:46 SDL_GL_SwapBuffers SDL_GL_SetAttribute GL_ARB_multitexture GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap Jan 08 22:07:47 egaudet_work: -C will demangle symbol names .. Jan 08 22:08:42 -r and -R for relocation information Jan 08 22:09:14 -t will show the symbol table like when you use nm Jan 08 22:12:11 azakus: http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/Application_talk:JsTop Jan 08 22:13:07 destinal: i will have a SDL terminal working after dinner Jan 08 22:13:15 synackfin1: changing optimization to -O0 didn't help. strace on dosbox shows lots of "ioctl(12, KDGKBENT, 0x9e9e390c) = 0" Jan 08 22:13:20 PuffTheMagic: awesome Jan 08 22:13:20 destinal: and possibly a GLES SDL terminal by later tonight Jan 08 22:14:44 synackfin1: something to do with keyboard maps Jan 08 22:14:51 PuffTheMagic: please do :p Jan 08 22:15:09 PuffTheMagic: if we have a good terminal, we can submit it to catalog Jan 08 22:15:19 destinal: yeah that was my plan :D Jan 08 22:15:29 destinal: what gave you that error? I was complaining about the same strace issue Jan 08 22:15:31 PuffTheMagic: you rock :) Jan 08 22:15:36 zsoc: dosbox Jan 08 22:15:52 may be some common SDL issue Jan 08 22:15:56 on pre Jan 08 22:16:15 what were you getting it on? Jan 08 22:16:17 destinal: fceu did it to. there's something in the driver code about 'trying every hot key', but it wasn't sdl Jan 08 22:16:46 unless maybe it was an sdl routine calling that initialzation Jan 08 22:16:56 I see those from strace glyder Jan 08 22:17:22 egaudet_work: like 10000 per second? Jan 08 22:17:30 morning Jan 08 22:17:32 yea a ton scroll by Jan 08 22:17:46 or evening, but sure ;) Jan 08 22:17:52 egaudet_work: I wonder if that's causing the crashing issues with a lot of the games Jan 08 22:18:08 rwhitby: you missed it while you were asleep, webOS 2.3 came out Jan 08 22:18:15 mine didn't crash Jan 08 22:18:19 DarthPooh: rod's channel. rod's timezone. Jan 08 22:18:26 I haven't had any games crash so far, including the unofficial ones. Jan 08 22:18:28 DarthPooh: excellent, did it include Preware as planned? Jan 08 22:18:29 it seems to be on initialization Jan 08 22:18:36 egaudet_work: if you see the reviews almost every native game has crashing issues Jan 08 22:18:42 rwhitby: yup preware 1.6 Jan 08 22:18:43 ~ugt Jan 08 22:18:44 from memory, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html Jan 08 22:18:48 zsoc: ^^ Jan 08 22:19:19 love me some ugt Jan 08 22:19:29 egaudet_work: it's also odd that sdl has no KEYBOARD FLAG init flag Jan 08 22:19:36 well Jan 08 22:19:40 1.6? Jan 08 22:19:43 I'm going away for a while, so.. Jan 08 22:19:44 later Jan 08 22:19:51 so we finally got feed management working :) Jan 08 22:20:04 rwhitby: that's the second most excellent thing I've seen this week Jan 08 22:20:06 Brandon keeps piping up when he wants... Jan 08 22:20:33 second most? Jan 08 22:20:36 zsoc: I hope the first was a naked woman... Jan 08 22:20:47 zsoc: or otherwise, you have a boring ass week Jan 08 22:20:55 oilsworkn: I created a new type AppCatalog, which I figure we make the launch button just click the web redirect address. Jan 08 22:21:05 c/have/had Jan 08 22:21:06 wait, what? Jan 08 22:21:33 oilsworkn: http://twitpic.com/x720k Jan 08 22:22:08 beta, catalog, web? Jan 08 22:22:13 Preware continues to be able to show and install any webOS package on the planet. Jan 08 22:22:29 * DarthPooh hates when she watches endless hours of Friends. Awful show. Jan 08 22:22:35 DarthPooh: I'm guessing you aren't married. Jan 08 22:23:09 Whats up guys rwhitby: i got freetether on phone with service how do i get my computer to recgonize it? Jan 08 22:23:13 why else would he be watching friends? Jan 08 22:23:21 zsoc: why would you guess that? your powers of logic and deduction amaze me... Jan 08 22:23:23 oilsworkn: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feeds Jan 08 22:23:32 oops, wrong url Jan 08 22:23:42 oilsworkn: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed Jan 08 22:24:14 morning rwhitby Jan 08 22:24:20 so you're converting it to an ipk feed? Jan 08 22:24:36 just the Packages file Jan 08 22:24:42 right Jan 08 22:24:47 well thats cool Jan 08 22:24:51 seriously, lamest show ever. Jan 08 22:24:58 no more lack of info for app catalog apps Jan 08 22:25:05 oilsworkn: yeah Jan 08 22:25:08 less fixing of unknowns Jan 08 22:25:09 now, HIMYM, that Jan 08 22:25:16 is a LEGEND--- wait for it Jan 08 22:25:24 dairy show. Jan 08 22:26:19 brb, work Jan 08 22:26:31 oilsworkn: so, do you, I and egaudet_work need to get together to work out the patch dependencies installation/removall update-all scenario? we now have Jason's patches depending on services. Jan 08 22:26:48 (later, of course) Jan 08 22:27:29 interesting. work proxy blocks twitter but not twitpic Jan 08 22:27:31 DarthPooh: #webos-watercooler is a nice place. you should check it out Jan 08 22:28:02 zsoc: blow me Jan 08 22:28:23 zsoc: you Jan 08 22:28:32 zsoc: arent cute... Jan 08 22:30:15 yalll my sb2 is compiling correctly Jan 08 22:30:19 rwhitby: I asked earlier before you left, but what do you think Palm will do with the GUI? use a wrapper with the APK or does webOS have to be written? Jan 08 22:30:19 time to help you guys out Jan 08 22:30:22 after a nice nap Jan 08 22:30:35 rwhitby: the new package looks like its workign Jan 08 22:31:16 rwhitby: well, not right now, i'm not able to code anything Jan 08 22:31:30 but i do think patch dependencies work like any other dependency Jan 08 22:31:37 i dont see why it would be different Jan 08 22:32:32 DarthPooh: APK? Jan 08 22:32:52 grrrrrr Jan 08 22:32:59 oilsworkn: PDK Jan 08 22:33:12 :) Jan 08 22:33:18 seriously, I hate this keyboard... Jan 08 22:33:32 * rwhitby chuckles at the NSFW in the backlog Jan 08 22:33:33 a and p aren't anywhere near each other Jan 08 22:33:46 ? Jan 08 22:33:55 which NSFW Jan 08 22:34:09 no, but my fingers dont sit right and I hit all kinds of wrong keys... I get confuddled on it Jan 08 22:34:34 jacques: almost exactly 8 hours ago Jan 08 22:35:33 I still need to setup some sort of irc proxy Jan 08 22:35:39 on my pre Jan 08 22:37:25 seriously... this show is REALLY bad. Jan 08 22:38:16 DarthPooh: seriously, watercooler Jan 08 22:38:43 zsoc: seriously, blow me Jan 08 22:39:29 zsoc: I heart you tho. Jan 08 22:40:20 YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Jan 08 22:40:23 I have a damn triangle Jan 08 22:40:30 1.1 Jan 08 22:40:30 egaudet_work: HOW YOU DO IT Jan 08 22:40:34 i knew it! Jan 08 22:40:35 zsoc Jan 08 22:40:44 after your SDL_Init you must do: Jan 08 22:40:48 1_1init()? lol Jan 08 22:41:12 suspense ... killing ... me Jan 08 22:41:26 SDL_GL_SetAttribute(SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION, 1); SDL_GL_SetAttribute(SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION, 1); the SDL lib defaults it to 2.0 Jan 08 22:41:27 bam Jan 08 22:41:28 bada bing Jan 08 22:41:32 tuxracrer tonight maybe! Jan 08 22:41:45 egaudet_work: you sir are a prince among men Jan 08 22:41:46 egaudet_work: aha, so that setattribute I saw in my strings of xplane Jan 08 22:41:49 egaudet_work: that is amazing work (at work no less) Jan 08 22:41:51 why did you have to end that with a "maybe"? Jan 08 22:41:58 that killed the excitement Jan 08 22:41:59 at the very top Jan 08 22:41:59 yea don't tell the boss ;) Jan 08 22:42:12 lol oilsworkn Jan 08 22:42:13 * jacques calls egaudet_work's boss Jan 08 22:42:20 * egaudet_work cuts phone line Jan 08 22:42:27 dtzWill|away: when you get back read what's above this :p Jan 08 22:42:29 phone line? hello??? Jan 08 22:42:48 :P Jan 08 22:43:11 and so another wall falls Jan 08 22:43:21 Rick_work rwhitby PuffTheMagic: the reason dosbox hangs, it seems, is it's trying to perform ioctl's to get keyboard data. of course, since there's no real keyboard... Jan 08 22:43:59 why is it rying to get keyboard data rather than use SDL keyboard stuff? Jan 08 22:44:01 events Jan 08 22:44:05 destinal: did you google it/ I did a little while ago and found a post that supposedly worked around the hang Jan 08 22:44:22 dunno if it's relevant Jan 08 22:44:53 ali1: read above ^^^^ Jan 08 22:45:11 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lib.sdl/37085 Jan 08 22:45:22 alright I'm heading home now, bbl Jan 08 22:46:27 * oilsworkn shakes fist at egaudet Jan 08 22:46:58 I guess 1.1 isn't broken after all :-) Jan 08 22:48:31 PuffTheMagic: I spoke with raster about e17 - he's not interested until the Pre can run X Jan 08 22:48:44 lol Jan 08 22:50:13 * oilsworkn added catalog feeds to preware, its actually pretty cool Jan 08 22:50:47 though there are a few problems Jan 08 22:50:48 haha Jan 08 22:51:27 well, more then a few Jan 08 22:51:31 a handfull? Jan 08 22:52:22 * jacques wonders when a gles 1.1 demo will be in git Jan 08 22:55:04 it breaks type-to-search Jan 08 22:55:12 lots of data format problems Jan 08 22:55:33 "download size: false B" Jan 08 22:55:51 "last updated NaN/NaN/N :NaN AM" Jan 08 22:56:08 rwhitby, you mean enlightenment? Jan 08 22:56:10 On the pre? Jan 08 22:56:16 That'd be all kinds of crazy. Jan 08 22:56:20 doohan: yeah Jan 08 22:58:43 rwhitby: im thinking we need to move stuff around in the feed for palms stuff Jan 08 22:59:00 like, maintainer: name ? Jan 08 22:59:02 hi all Jan 08 22:59:08 shouldn't the homepage be in the source object's homepage? Jan 08 22:59:21 and add something special for catalog url? Jan 08 22:59:33 I have a question about the regular upgrades of the Pre while using Preware Jan 08 22:59:51 oilsworkn: agreed that some of the stuff needs to move around Jan 08 23:00:29 oilsworkn: it's really at proof of concept stage right now - I was waiting for your input before going further Jan 08 23:00:55 i've got the "exploded" main scene Jan 08 23:00:59 and they're lumped into other :) Jan 08 23:01:38 oilsworkn: the dependencies thing I was talking about was for the 'replace' style packages. Jan 08 23:01:43 is fbcat in optware ? Jan 08 23:01:48 oh, and lastUpdated should be timestamp, right? Jan 08 23:01:51 * rwhitby finally finishes reading overnight backlog Jan 08 23:02:17 uh Jan 08 23:02:20 replace is trickey Jan 08 23:02:24 rwhitby: backlogs are getting too big huh? Jan 08 23:02:39 but if the patch is installed through preware Jan 08 23:02:49 it will install the service as a dep Jan 08 23:02:53 and an upgrade replace Jan 08 23:02:59 wouldn't even need to touch it Jan 08 23:03:03 it being already installed and all Jan 08 23:03:34 also, not to be nit-pickey Jan 08 23:03:40 but why feeds/palm-something Jan 08 23:03:43 I wish the squarify hack were a preware-installable patch Jan 08 23:03:44 and not feeds/palm/something Jan 08 23:04:01 or run-once app like erp Jan 08 23:04:12 seems to not follow the same format as the other feeds Jan 08 23:04:30 rwhitby: so i need to get it running X then huh Jan 08 23:04:34 shouldnt be too hard ;) Jan 08 23:04:44 oilsworkn: different apps in each of the three palm feeds, not just different versions of same apps Jan 08 23:05:02 xplane has wifi multiplayer ?? Jan 08 23:05:05 webos-internals/all is different from webos-internals/armv7 Jan 08 23:05:28 oilsworkn: yeah, but that's via architecture, not via which feed the app is in Jan 08 23:05:36 they are both still in the webos-internals feed Jan 08 23:06:21 oilsworkn: I see it as first level == config file, second level == line in config file. if you want to be able to enable and disable it at will, it needs to be first level Jan 08 23:06:56 ah Jan 08 23:07:09 (and I could see people wanting to disable palm catalog feed, but keep palm web and palm beta feeds enabled, for example) Jan 08 23:07:29 oilsworkn: timestamps I just haven't done the work to convert the format yet Jan 08 23:07:42 sizes I just haven't done yet Jan 08 23:07:49 * oilsworkn wants to keep them all Jan 08 23:08:05 but really, we need to get preware to 1.0 so we can switch to the c service and get progress bars on this stuff Jan 08 23:08:16 oilsworkn: yep Jan 08 23:08:36 whats in the way, patch deps/upgrade problems Jan 08 23:08:41 and feed add/deletion Jan 08 23:09:05 oilsworkn: if we can get an aupt-happy update all, and palm feeds to launch, then that's 1.0 in my book. Jan 08 23:09:10 would be nice to be able to update individual feeds Jan 08 23:09:35 aupt-happy update all is going to be a pita Jan 08 23:09:36 jacques: with the C service we should be able to do that I think Jan 08 23:09:42 oilsworkn: yeah, it is Jan 08 23:09:42 cool Jan 08 23:09:46 those patch guys should have taken it into account that they're bat-shit crazy Jan 08 23:09:56 * oilsworkn shakes fist at dBsooner and egaudet Jan 08 23:10:02 what? Jan 08 23:10:08 exactly! Jan 08 23:10:19 :) Jan 08 23:10:19 Leave me be.. I am revamping the patch submission process Jan 08 23:10:25 Everything is going to be stored in SQL Jan 08 23:10:35 fancy-schmancy Jan 08 23:10:38 yup Jan 08 23:10:45 submission is done Jan 08 23:10:51 i am now making the admin side Jan 08 23:11:00 are you going to requite them to make a thread on pc? Jan 08 23:11:01 xD Jan 08 23:11:11 but rwhitby still denies me access to webos-internals Jan 08 23:11:13 :) Jan 08 23:11:29 oilsworkn: nope.. they aren't required to do anything they don't want to do. Jan 08 23:11:30 yeah, that rwhitby guy is a real jerk Jan 08 23:11:40 I was going to say asshole.. but jerk is more polite. Jan 08 23:11:42 xD Jan 08 23:11:50 lol Jan 08 23:12:12 * rwhitby sees what Nokia had to say ... Jan 08 23:14:38 http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/palm-files-patent-for-gps-based-location-sharing-service/ Jan 08 23:14:46 I'm having a problem with Preware and I'm hoping someone can help me. Preware is listing that I have 6 patches installed (battery icon as percent, call duration in call log, enable led notifcations, force send offline, match state to area code, and shutter sound off) although I just webos-doctored my phone and reinstalled preware and the package service. Jan 08 23:14:48 what, article about a palm patent? Jan 08 23:14:52 who are they, apple? Jan 08 23:15:43 I tried emergency patch removal, but it errors and the ipkg log says there are no patches installed (yet preware still lists those 6 as installed) Jan 08 23:15:50 any ideas? Jan 08 23:16:48 AraqirG-laptop: unfortunately in ways, /media/internal doesn't get wiped when you doctor any more, and thus the 3rd party apps directory stays around, so the ipkg library thinks you have patches installed but you actually don't Jan 08 23:17:17 easiest fix is to remove them with ipkg at the command line Jan 08 23:17:25 AraqirG-laptop: full erase, and then doctor Jan 08 23:17:26 terminal or novaterm or ssh etc Jan 08 23:17:41 AraqirG-laptop: save your data from the USB drive first Jan 08 23:17:50 rwhitby: ah, full erase would kill /media/internal which would solve the problem quickly Jan 08 23:18:01 ok, cool, I'll try those. Thanks destinal and rwhitby Jan 08 23:18:24 AraqirG-laptop: full erase means "full" - make sure you save any data you want first. Jan 08 23:18:30 of course Jan 08 23:18:36 dBsooner, well I have to say I found the patch submit amazingly effortless. I hope it wasn't by dint of you having to do manual work for each submission Jan 08 23:18:42 rwhitby: that's a good option for metadoctor -- to rebuild /media/internal on install like it used to Jan 08 23:18:52 oh yes Jan 08 23:19:03 KEYofRghh: There is always manual work on my end. Jan 08 23:19:16 rwhitby: I'm unaware of any Verizon exclusivity period Jan 08 23:19:17 KEYofRghh: What i am doing now is making it "prettier" for the user-end. Jan 08 23:19:47 KEYofRghh: I am tired of updating a spreadsheet and having people refer to the spreadsheet for current version of patches. Jan 08 23:20:03 KEYofRghh: So I decided to turn that spreadsheet into an SQL Database Jan 08 23:20:22 So the "submission process" will be exactly the same Jan 08 23:20:24 spreadsheet? Jan 08 23:20:29 what is this, the 90's? Jan 08 23:20:46 Except, there will be a NEW addition to the form.. a way to "Submit UPDATE" Jan 08 23:21:06 just copy palms model Jan 08 23:21:17 you will select the patch you want to update from the list and then hit "next" and the form will be pre-filled in with what is CURRENTLY there. Jan 08 23:21:35 bhuey: "exclusive to Verizon" means some sort of exclusivity period Jan 08 23:21:40 pre-filled in form? Jan 08 23:21:43 is webos little or big endian/ Jan 08 23:21:46 thats so web3.0 Jan 08 23:21:48 ? Jan 08 23:22:01 oilsworkn: lol Jan 08 23:22:01 bhuey: anyone who thinks differently probably is locked into Sprint and in denial at this point .... Jan 08 23:22:04 oilsworkn: keep you're mouth shut.. I don't feel like using new fancy schmancy crap Jan 08 23:22:10 Mousey: armel Jan 08 23:22:13 lol Jan 08 23:22:17 ah, little Jan 08 23:22:25 Mousey: eabi too Jan 08 23:22:46 oilsworkn: at least I am doing something.. not just sitting back and watching PC.net try to make a "Patches gallery"... which was supposed to be done like 3 months ago. Jan 08 23:22:47 rwhitby: it should be possible to get a pre+ working on sprint, lots of people have original pre's working on verizon Jan 08 23:22:57 destinal: sure Jan 08 23:23:10 people have sprint Pre's working as a phone in china Jan 08 23:23:18 precentral making a patch gallery? Jan 08 23:23:25 that seems rather.... Jan 08 23:23:33 oilsworkn: they were supposed to like forever ago. Jan 08 23:23:38 lol Jan 08 23:24:00 oilsworkn: crazy insane madness? Jan 08 23:24:14 oilsworkn: we gave the requirements, but I suspect the integration of the app catalog took precendence (which is not surprising, cause it got them into the keynote slides) Jan 08 23:24:16 i was just going to leave it blank, feel free to fill in whatever Jan 08 23:24:41 oilsworkn: very... presidential of them? Jan 08 23:25:18 destinal: it was actually my suggestion to dieter Jan 08 23:25:28 rwhitby: ah Jan 08 23:25:30 i mean, they made the app gallery for filecoaster to use Jan 08 23:25:40 all proprietary like Jan 08 23:25:43 I figured there was going to be one there eventually, so we might as well get the requirements right up front Jan 08 23:25:49 then the theme gallery for quick install Jan 08 23:25:50 rwhitby: do I still need to run webos-doctor after a full erase? Jan 08 23:25:56 i guess the patch gallery could be for quick install Jan 08 23:26:05 do they have the technical skills to manage a patch library effectively? Jan 08 23:26:17 they would hire dbsooner Jan 08 23:26:26 and pay him $0 Jan 08 23:26:34 that's gotta be a raise Jan 08 23:26:36 :P Jan 08 23:26:41 oilsworkn: read above, it was my suggestion to them (precisely cause I saw that pattern that you saw, and wanted to make sure a patch system worked with preware) Jan 08 23:27:02 rwhitby: I'm glad it hasn't happened, hope it won't happen Jan 08 23:27:07 destinal: dBsooner and egaudet were to be the initial moderators Jan 08 23:27:07 but he would get his name in the all over precentral, so thats like $100000 a month raise for dbsooner :) Jan 08 23:27:23 rwhitby: not them!! Jan 08 23:27:26 destinal: why? Jan 08 23:27:28 we'd all be doomed.. wait. Jan 08 23:27:29 :P Jan 08 23:27:31 lol Jan 08 23:27:40 destinal: I mean why do you hope it won't happen? Jan 08 23:27:59 rwhitby: uh, well I guess with good moderators like you say, it could be okay Jan 08 23:27:59 ah well Jan 08 23:28:03 woops Jan 08 23:28:19 and the webos-patches feed would go bye-bye? Jan 08 23:28:28 oilsworkn: no Jan 08 23:28:39 oilsworkn: two patch feeds would be disastrous though Jan 08 23:28:42 so we get the same problem we do with feeds? Jan 08 23:28:43 it would be fed automatically (with moderator approval in the loop) from the gallery Jan 08 23:28:48 where everything is in both? Jan 08 23:28:51 no two feeds Jan 08 23:29:08 gallery feeds git, git feeds webos-patches Jan 08 23:29:12 can I go on the record as saying patches suck ? Jan 08 23:29:19 lol Jan 08 23:29:25 I have to admit, I use a few, but it still .. ugh Jan 08 23:29:30 i like some of them :) Jan 08 23:29:33 destinal: I use 11 Jan 08 23:29:44 jeez, patchaholic over here Jan 08 23:29:55 xD Jan 08 23:30:10 and I trust egaudet's postinst enought that I'm not afraid to try out a new one Jan 08 23:30:31 i've got, like 5? Jan 08 23:30:32 I have to admit people have done things to enhance palm's apps greatly, but I sometimes wonder if total app replacement for certain functionality wouldn't be a lot cleaner Jan 08 23:30:50 like music remix Jan 08 23:30:54 destinal: no doubt that it would Jan 08 23:31:07 yeah except for copyright reasons you'd probably want from-scratch replacements Jan 08 23:31:09 destinal; I dont think so. some patches are too minor, like new card for convos Jan 08 23:31:11 I use about a dozen or so. It's a pain every update, but I'll happily take that pain and "possible to customize" vs the worse pain of "not possible to customize" Jan 08 23:31:32 oh, one of the bosses kids (family owned/run company) brought in his new baby Jan 08 23:31:34 and everyone is gathering Jan 08 23:31:35 AnOutsider: on other operating systems you'd just get a messaging app that had all the features you want, and they'd be configurable Jan 08 23:32:07 how do I submit an app to homebrew? Jan 08 23:32:10 i think the crowd is smaller then when that one truck driver brings in his pet-monkey Jan 08 23:32:18 how sad Jan 08 23:32:20 destinal: so you mean just include all aptches into a new messagng app but have it configurable? Jan 08 23:32:29 natenrb9: does it use webos-internals stuff like services or plugins? Jan 08 23:32:33 nope Jan 08 23:32:38 AnOutsider: well, you'd write a new messaging app with all that functionality Jan 08 23:32:42 natenrb9: is it open source? Jan 08 23:32:43 from scratch Jan 08 23:32:51 as in free? Jan 08 23:32:55 then have the "patches" be standard options Jan 08 23:32:55 well something like the messaging app is hooked in Jan 08 23:32:57 I gotcha Jan 08 23:33:06 natenrb9: no, as in open source Jan 08 23:33:08 i guess they do have that app default thing Jan 08 23:33:21 natenrb9: http://www.opensource.org/ Jan 08 23:33:21 rwhitby: what qualifies it as open source? Jan 08 23:33:22 but idk if you can tell it use this other app for when a message comes in/etc Jan 08 23:33:35 natenrb9: http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd Jan 08 23:33:39 because we can't generally patch calc.exe in windows, someone writes a better calculator if they want new features Jan 08 23:33:43 that's not necessarily a bad thing Jan 08 23:33:50 Heck the patch I submitted is microscopic. it is pretty annoying to even have to have a whole patch all named and tracked and maintained that just comments out a line in a script Jan 08 23:33:53 destinal: but with the messaging app for example Jan 08 23:33:57 when you recieve an sms Jan 08 23:34:01 it pops palms app Jan 08 23:34:10 to my knowledge, you can't take over Jan 08 23:34:25 At that rate the fs could someday be filled with 3 parts patch backups/diffs vs live files Jan 08 23:34:31 oilsworkn: the service talks over the bus to the messaging app, any app could do it Jan 08 23:34:42 isn't ther ea preferred apps config somewhere ... maybe I'm dreaming Jan 08 23:34:53 the preferred apps thing is different Jan 08 23:34:58 well it would have to be com.palm namespace Jan 08 23:34:59 PuffTheMagic: I don't see any way of getting X to work in sdl (short of starting X applications and grabbing their Window_IDs Jan 08 23:35:04 but... possible vs not possible. wins every time. Jan 08 23:35:04 but it's all on the bus Jan 08 23:35:08 so when you click a phone number link in an email what app it spawns Jan 08 23:35:43 or when you get a .xls which app it should open with Jan 08 23:35:57 zsoc: you could do a window manager in a card Jan 08 23:36:33 destinal: right, its all from the service Jan 08 23:36:47 rwhitby: so homebrew is only open source? (I believe mine would be open source) Jan 08 23:36:50 destinal: a window manager would require x... Jan 08 23:37:12 but you would have to change your app to start when you turn it on instead of palms Jan 08 23:37:16 zsoc: you're killing my brain Jan 08 23:37:35 since things like email are started in the background automatically Jan 08 23:37:55 Sorry. X Window is just so much overhead. even if it ran it would be garbage. Jan 08 23:37:55 I'm trying to say don't try to do every x app in its own card, you could run an x server that renders to one surface Jan 08 23:37:56 natenrb9: no, that's just a criteria I would use to advise you whether to put it in the PreCentral App Gallery, or whether to talk to us about hosting in git.webos-internals.org Jan 08 23:38:15 it wouldn't be garbage Jan 08 23:38:47 X ran on my 486SX33, this thing is much faster Jan 08 23:38:51 ah Jan 08 23:38:53 destinal: _could_ you run an x server that renders to an sdl surface? that's what I'm failing to understand. although... does maemo do that? Jan 08 23:39:03 who runs the precentral homebrew? Jan 08 23:39:06 now you're exaddurating Jan 08 23:39:08 zsoc: I don't know if anything does it but it could be done Jan 08 23:39:12 natenrb9: precentral Jan 08 23:39:16 oh ok Jan 08 23:39:26 www.precentral.net Jan 08 23:39:28 natenrb9: if you just want to get an app up, the precentral app gallery. if you want to be part of the webos-internals development effort, then we can help. Jan 08 23:39:33 zsoc: even openGL es accelerated Jan 08 23:39:36 that is what I had thought, but someone had said webos-internals... Jan 08 23:40:03 gotcha Jan 08 23:40:14 natenrb9: most apps are on precentral, some very cool ones come here :) Jan 08 23:40:25 natenrb9: either way, they all end up in Preware Jan 08 23:40:34 people who <3 arguing come here :) Jan 08 23:40:39 good evening everyone Jan 08 23:40:39 lol Jan 08 23:40:46 evening bpadalino Jan 08 23:40:47 rwhitby; how do you guys plan to handle paid apps if you integrate palm's feed? Jan 08 23:40:53 admittedly, I have not taken a look at it yet Jan 08 23:40:59 oilsworkn: no they don't Jan 08 23:41:01 oilsworkn: how can you say that?! Jan 08 23:41:06 lol Jan 08 23:41:10 :P Jan 08 23:41:20 AnOutsider: Preware palms off the install to Palm's app (see what I did there?) Jan 08 23:41:21 point proven? :) Jan 08 23:41:31 clever Jan 08 23:41:52 AnOutsider: it opens palms catalog right to the app allowing you to pay/download it Jan 08 23:41:53 destinal: xorg conf can set screen config and video mode.. but I think xorg conf was dropped a few versions ago... in favor of.. uh.. something else Jan 08 23:41:53 I like that idea since preware is on my first page and the appcat is buried somewhere else Jan 08 23:41:58 preware is basically a directory in that sense Jan 08 23:42:15 zsoc: you're still killing my brain Jan 08 23:42:37 AnOutsider: then Preware continues to include every webOS package on the planet, including the ones that people submit via the new Palm get-yourself-a-url web channel Jan 08 23:42:40 zsoc gets a new title, instead of "elite webos hacker extraordinaire" its now "brain killer!" Jan 08 23:42:48 much easier to type i must say Jan 08 23:42:56 he'll always be WHE Jan 08 23:43:09 now he's WHEBK Jan 08 23:43:11 EWHE? Jan 08 23:43:16 destinal: killing your brain generally means 'im an idiot' in my experience Jan 08 23:43:18 abbreviations make it much easier to type Jan 08 23:43:23 egaudet: you are awesome Jan 08 23:43:28 rwhitby: veddy good Jan 08 23:43:48 with that said, do you guys plan to implement any sort of content ranking API? Jan 08 23:43:49 destinal: xorg server runs the x window system... so it needs to be configured to display on an sdl fbdev surface Jan 08 23:43:58 let the feeds provide comments, ratings etc? Jan 08 23:44:01 zsoc: mainly it means I'm really confused and it's somehow all your fault :) Jan 08 23:44:09 destinal: that is _backwards_ from how sdl normally integrates with x Jan 08 23:44:09 or that I can blame you Jan 08 23:44:41 AnOutsider: now that we have a significant open feed that has that meta-data, then it makes sense to standardise the Sources format for such and presuade the other feeds to follow suit. Jan 08 23:45:02 * oilsworkn feels ratings is a bad idea Jan 08 23:45:25 for example: was bible trivia really the best app in palms catalog for months? Jan 08 23:45:28 dtzWill|away: you can probably get quake runnin on opengl now using the nanoGL libs Jan 08 23:45:30 zsoc: I understand, normally you run SDL X apps, in this case you'd have an SDL X server Jan 08 23:45:37 which may complicate running SDL X apps Jan 08 23:45:38 oh he's away Jan 08 23:45:38 the quake control overlay is awesome Jan 08 23:45:42 no, it wasnt, just, only one person who paid $6 for it decided to rate it, and gave it a 5 Jan 08 23:45:42 hmm.. there's something called 'xegl' Jan 08 23:45:54 so it was at the top with a perfect 5 forever Jan 08 23:46:13 oil: you can have ratings whilst ignoring ranking. if I actually want a bible app, I'd like to know reviews Jan 08 23:46:15 we can take xegl and replace the egl constants with sdl apis Jan 08 23:46:32 you would just not have a "top apps" category, or have better filtering/ranking algorithm Jan 08 23:46:33 i have no problem with reviews, comments Jan 08 23:46:35 i ahve a problem with a rating Jan 08 23:46:47 why so sir? Jan 08 23:46:56 oilsworkn: ratings need to be based on VOLUME Jan 08 23:47:02 its a subjective popularity contest Jan 08 23:47:06 er, volume AND mean average Jan 08 23:47:08 not indicative of the quality of the product Jan 08 23:47:13 if you have a "top rated" category yes Jan 08 23:47:24 but if I come to the app I'd like to know the average rating Jan 08 23:47:42 but all the apps in preware are free Jan 08 23:47:45 withotu reading individual reviews Jan 08 23:47:47 if there is 4 tip calcs Jan 08 23:47:49 if there are two competing apps there should be average review and number of installed users Jan 08 23:47:52 download them all, and see which you like best Jan 08 23:48:05 or... read the reviews and check out the rating and save some time Jan 08 23:48:07 hm.. there's a libxsdl but it's broken Jan 08 23:48:12 if you don't like it, move on to the next :) Jan 08 23:48:33 oilsworkn: yeah I guess the problem with ratings driving users to download things is it's a feedback loop Jan 08 23:48:34 again Jan 08 23:48:36 i dont ahve a problem with reviews Jan 08 23:48:48 my problem is with a rating, or star type system Jan 08 23:49:02 if a low stars app doesn't get downloaded it will never rise Jan 08 23:49:09 so you can doom an app from the beginning Jan 08 23:49:42 but comments and reviews of the app, i have no problem with that Jan 08 23:49:54 in theory that's true, but having run a number of sites that have media and a ranking system, people will still give something a shot Jan 08 23:50:00 xgl is an opengl xorg, which should work with xegl or an xegl hack. Jan 08 23:50:08 nice Jan 08 23:50:10 and quite often, if they feel it's been down-rated unfairly, they'll give it MORE than they feel it dweserves to balance out Jan 08 23:50:13 but I see your poitn Jan 08 23:50:16 Since I'm an atheist, if I were also a jerk atheist, and went around giving every bible app a 0 , should that really be allowed to factor in the apps rating? Ratings are kind of a broken idea. Jan 08 23:50:26 zsoc: but it would still need to be ported to SDL calls Jan 08 23:50:28 they are Jan 08 23:50:43 whoever started it should be shot Jan 08 23:50:46 :) Jan 08 23:51:00 just like the guy who first decided to make flash advertizements on websites Jan 08 23:51:02 KEYofRghh: exactly right Jan 08 23:51:10 destinal: actually, I have reason to believe not. egl api's (with the right headers) 'just works' Jan 08 23:51:13 it puts a false metric on something non-quantifiable Jan 08 23:51:30 destinal: and porting egl initialzation to sdl is pretty simple Jan 08 23:51:42 zsoc: awesome! get on it! :) Jan 08 23:51:47 so, shopping for a vacation, you aren't more likely to check out a 4 star hotel before a 1 star? Jan 08 23:52:01 thats different Jan 08 23:52:03 rwhitby: ping Jan 08 23:52:22 the people who rate hotels like that are professionals fallowing a set of rules as to what amkes it a 3 or 4 star or whatever Jan 08 23:52:25 its a signal of quality Jan 08 23:52:30 but random user#1 cares not Jan 08 23:52:30 destinal: I'm trying to figure out what method puff is using so I an use the other one :p Jan 08 23:52:31 other apps can have personal philosophical problems the same way. how about an extremely well written and thought out how-to-build-bombs database? or where to find the closest nude bar? or "escort service" etc etc etc Jan 08 23:52:39 he couldn't get this app to do what he wants because hes dumb, so he gives it 0 Jan 08 23:53:05 'omg it said could not install. 0 stars' Jan 08 23:53:15 see Jan 08 23:53:18 oil oh yeah Jan 08 23:53:20 fair enough Jan 08 23:53:27 right Jan 08 23:53:32 no responsibility for accuracy Jan 08 23:53:36 random question, about to submit this app to palm. Do beta apps show up in any feeds? Jan 08 23:53:44 and your rating affects future traffic and thus rating quality Jan 08 23:54:00 AnOutsider: it doesn't appear until its been "published" by palm i believe Jan 08 23:54:06 atleast, not in the catalog Jan 08 23:54:09 they review it first Jan 08 23:54:26 idk about the new feed thing they put out Jan 08 23:54:30 really Jan 08 23:54:36 idk since they opened everything up Jan 08 23:54:45 i only did anything in the old version Jan 08 23:54:51 forgot about that Jan 08 23:54:54 brb Jan 08 23:55:17 well web distribution requires no approval, but shows up in their feeds Jan 08 23:55:17 I'm surprised palm lets us un-brand the device so throroughly. guess they are ok with the hardware logo on the back Jan 08 23:55:29 beta though, it just says you get a link, but doesn't indicate if it shows up in feeds Jan 08 23:55:40 which I assume it does since there's a checkbox for it on projectappetite Jan 08 23:56:13 for those that care: http://developer.palm.com/app_submission.php?distribution - beta is still about as clear as mud for me though Jan 08 23:57:41 http://www.betanews.com/article/Qualcomms-multicore-Snapdragon-will-battle-Intels-Atom-using-AMDs-factory/1262970697 Jan 08 23:58:45 AnOutsider: after you submit it, you could always browse the xml to see if it appears Jan 08 23:59:34 indeed Jan 08 23:59:58 Eguy: Jan 08 23:59:58 (05:59:29 PM) chris: [resent] higher meaning you aren't due for a 2 year upgrade but you dont have to pay $599 Jan 08 23:59:59 rwhitby: that thing you asked that guy abouting porting.. it's a window manager? Jan 09 00:00:07 er Jan 09 00:00:09 wrong chan Jan 09 00:00:28 * zsoc strikes from the record Jan 09 00:00:30 e17 Jan 09 00:00:32 ? Jan 09 00:01:01 zsoc has a personal problem with the other channel Jan 09 00:01:02 thanks zsoc Jan 09 00:01:35 yes e17, I couldn't recall the name. I read now Jan 09 00:01:52 e17? enlightenment? Jan 09 00:02:01 gkatsev: yes :D Jan 09 00:02:13 is it out already? Jan 09 00:02:18 e17 includes a wm. it's mostly a wm I gues, unless you want to use the term "desktop environment" Jan 09 00:02:37 KEYofRghh: like compiz for instance? Jan 09 00:03:19 compiz is a feature or layer or ingredient, not a dt itse;f Jan 09 00:03:48 well, its a wm sorry Jan 09 00:04:30 still e16 :( Jan 09 00:04:33 but a wm is just part of a desktop, but for simple desktops is the biggest part Jan 09 00:04:41 KEYofRghh: I was going to say. I have a box that only uses compiz and x :) Jan 09 00:04:49 I see. nifty. Jan 09 00:05:06 KEYofRghh: you seem to have experience with e? Jan 09 00:05:33 used to use it way back in 14 & 15 Jan 09 00:06:02 haven't really used it since 16 other than a little farting around with my ps3 Jan 09 00:06:23 ah gotcha Jan 09 00:07:01 it's a pretty good thing luna is closed source, or we'd end up replacing it Jan 09 00:08:33 hmm.. maybe we _could_ replace it, and have a luna emulator Jan 09 00:08:37 hm, has anyone run luna in strace/ltrace? Jan 09 00:08:53 like we could box luna into an 'application' Jan 09 00:09:06 * zsoc thinks forward Jan 09 00:09:15 KEYofRghh: yes, it's very... robust Jan 09 00:11:02 destinal: so we can use egl and skip sdl if we have to. I'll have a demo tonight Jan 09 00:11:18 :o Jan 09 00:11:44 timepants: o face? Jan 09 00:11:47 anyone want to do a rotating cube now that we can get opengl 1.1 code working? Jan 09 00:11:58 AnOutsider: web distribution still goes through security checks, and will get bounced for those reasons (i.e. the link gets removed) Jan 09 00:12:00 s/gl/gles/ Jan 09 00:12:00 destinal meant: anyone want to do a rotating cube now that we can get opengles 1.1 code working? Jan 09 00:12:01 oilsworkn, "replace" for patches shouldn't be too hard, it's just remove reverse dependency order and install in order Jan 09 00:12:24 i thought it needed some remove all then install all thing when doing multiples? Jan 09 00:12:24 Would Palm/Sprint frown upon taking the Pre Plus Verizon tether code and make it available for Sprint? Jan 09 00:12:25 lol @ palm's checklist. I did beta distro btw Jan 09 00:12:28 destinal: nah we'l just port full games:) Jan 09 00:12:31 or did we already get away from that? Jan 09 00:13:03 synackfin1: I don't think that's within the scope of this channel Jan 09 00:13:06 synackfin1: if you can work out a way to do it without copyright infringement ... Jan 09 00:13:21 rwhitby, people can do PARTIAL erase before doctor to remove package data, no need for full erase Jan 09 00:14:10 egaudet: figure out opengl es 1.1 yet? :/ Jan 09 00:14:13 by the way is there a midi device on the pre or do we need a softsynth? Jan 09 00:14:20 we dont need to run X in SDL Jan 09 00:14:22 rwhitby: er, well he can't make verizons code available on a sprint device due to sprint agreements. but he could make it available for use.. for uh.. O2 purposes Jan 09 00:14:22 zsoc: ^^ Jan 09 00:14:30 PuffTheMagic: xegl? Jan 09 00:14:32 rwithby: hm, I guess it would technically be a copyright violation since owning a Pre doesn't guarantee you to Pre Plus code Jan 09 00:14:35 zsoc: we just need the VFB code in SDL Jan 09 00:14:39 zsoc: make a new driver for Xorg Jan 09 00:14:45 zsoc: you can't make verizons code available to anyone unless you have permission Jan 09 00:14:47 prob can use the fbdev driver as a base Jan 09 00:14:54 dtzWill: he did in deed figure it out Jan 09 00:14:54 and add the palm VFB stuff Jan 09 00:15:04 i cant imagine it being that hard Jan 09 00:15:08 rwhitby: you could mimic how it works I suppose. Jan 09 00:15:25 zsoc: do you think u can make a rectangle in GLES? Jan 09 00:15:36 dtzWill: opengl 1.1 is cracked thanks to egaudet's binutils sorcery Jan 09 00:15:38 zsoc: a rewrite that mimics the behaviour is perfectly acceptable Jan 09 00:15:42 PuffTheMagic: yes Jan 09 00:15:47 dtzWill: SDL_GL_SetAttribute(SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION, 1); SDL_GL_SetAttribute(SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION, 1); Jan 09 00:15:50 zsoc: then we should have GLESterm tonight Jan 09 00:15:50 :D Jan 09 00:15:58 jacques: TY Jan 09 00:16:10 oilsworkn, AnOutsider: my take on ratings is that Preware must remain non-partisan by default. Jan 09 00:16:18 knew there was some stupid resaon Jan 09 00:16:20 PuffTheMagic: lol you just need a rectangle that.. takes up the screen? how is it shaded? 100 alpha? Jan 09 00:16:21 interestingly, it switched my submission to web distribution and now Ic an't go back and change that Jan 09 00:16:25 of course it seems obvious now Jan 09 00:16:33 egaudet: TY amazing Jan 09 00:16:39 zsoc: no its obviously more than just a rectangle Jan 09 00:16:41 rwhitby: if you're pulling from a feed, that feed can supply the reviews no? Jan 09 00:16:43 i have all the GL code Jan 09 00:16:48 just needs to be ported to GLES Jan 09 00:16:51 oh oops I didn't know egaudet was still here Jan 09 00:16:52 but its only a few lines Jan 09 00:16:54 its no quake Jan 09 00:16:58 AnOutsider: supply a URL to the reviews, yes. Jan 09 00:17:01 as for actually writing reviews,t hat can be an API, but easier.. just dont allow reviews from preware Jan 09 00:17:27 * oilsworkn isn't so sure if comments/reviews should go in the ipkg feed Jan 09 00:17:30 AnOutsider: and following that URL allows whatever the feed originating site allows Jan 09 00:17:33 "rating" systems DO work, but only work with large sample sizes to weed out the extremes Jan 09 00:17:38 PuffTheMagic: no problem (er, probably, depending on the GL version) Jan 09 00:17:40 oilsworkn: they should not, just a URL Jan 09 00:18:06 oilsworkn, for dependencies only it goes remove A, remove B, install B, install A Jan 09 00:18:19 dtzWill, yes 1.1 works Jan 09 00:18:27 egaudet: it does remove A install A remove B install B Jan 09 00:18:37 you need to rate the ratings themselves, so that the ones everyone agrees are garbage, get flagged in a way they carry no weight Jan 09 00:18:48 and ok now I'm up to date and can read current messages no more backlogging Jan 09 00:18:51 rwhitby: give me an htpasswd entry for you Jan 09 00:18:55 egaudet: same thing Jan 09 00:18:57 like comments on digg or Jan 09 00:19:18 oilsworkn, it can't do that Jan 09 00:19:31 im telling you thats what it does Jan 09 00:19:39 I know what it does Jan 09 00:19:51 I'm telling you what it needs to do in order to work Jan 09 00:20:21 xcomp: mandriva's banner the first boot was funny "Welcome to localhost" Jan 09 00:20:31 when you get to package A, your logic already says remove/install B, remove/install A Jan 09 00:20:33 why, thank you! Jan 09 00:20:40 when A depends on B, right? Jan 09 00:20:50 for an update? Jan 09 00:20:53 yes Jan 09 00:20:56 is there an update to both A and B? Jan 09 00:21:00 PuffTheMagic: I won't really be available for another 2 hrs tho Jan 09 00:21:07 yes Jan 09 00:21:13 thats what it currently does Jan 09 00:21:26 replace this, replace this Jan 09 00:21:31 is what it tells the service Jan 09 00:21:54 ok so this is what it should do... remove A, remove B, install B, install A Jan 09 00:21:58 * oilsworkn thinks he should just get rid of the update all button Jan 09 00:22:02 thats teh easier solution to this mess Jan 09 00:22:08 it's not a mess Jan 09 00:22:22 it's a difficult technical problem Jan 09 00:22:33 I don't think it's that difficult Jan 09 00:22:39 the logic is all already there to build the deps list Jan 09 00:22:42 that is specific to patches Jan 09 00:22:45 to satisfy a very convenient use case Jan 09 00:22:56 it is specific to when update means replace Jan 09 00:23:05 patches are all like that but other things may require replace too Jan 09 00:23:25 yeah, I can see other apps/services/etc/ eventually needing a flag to say update really means replace Jan 09 00:23:27 oilsworkn: we should fix the confirmation dialog such that if the calling application isnt focused the confirmation goes to notification area Jan 09 00:23:33 instead of invading other apps Jan 09 00:23:41 you have two general ideas for update, either replace, or install-over Jan 09 00:23:50 ALL replace needs the above logic I described, not just patches Jan 09 00:23:53 egaudet: the entire thing needs to be rewritten to accomidate this Jan 09 00:24:01 oilsworkn, why so? Jan 09 00:24:12 becuase it wasn't developed with this case in mind? Jan 09 00:24:31 xcomp: no openssh package in mandriva? huh? Jan 09 00:25:05 eh, nevermind, package manager defaults to "packages with GUI", of course Jan 09 00:25:37 oilsworkn, where is the generic "update" method that first checks for dependencies? Jan 09 00:25:57 which is different from updateall Jan 09 00:26:02 but, its in the package.js Jan 09 00:26:04 why? Jan 09 00:26:15 update all should be a bunch of updates Jan 09 00:26:15 because it is? Jan 09 00:26:21 not special Jan 09 00:26:26 it is special Jan 09 00:26:30 a package update is one thing Jan 09 00:26:42 is there such a thing as an open source iphone game with 3d graphics ? Jan 09 00:26:44 if it sees there are dependencies that are not installed, it sends the list to the multi-update function Jan 09 00:26:47 update all is just a linear pass through each package and "update" on it Jan 09 00:27:09 update all builds the list first and goes straight to the multi-update function Jan 09 00:27:16 well I disagree with that Jan 09 00:27:26 ok? Jan 09 00:27:35 so you click update on a single package Jan 09 00:27:36 update all should simply walk the list and call the existing update function Jan 09 00:27:42 it does! Jan 09 00:27:51 * oilsworkn goes home Jan 09 00:27:53 you just said it doesn't Jan 09 00:29:46 http://gorillas.lhunath.com/ Jan 09 00:36:25 jacques: john carmack released sources for the wolf3d and doom ports, and they use opengl Jan 09 00:37:00 jacques: there's a tux racer port for iphone and doom (prboom) port for iphone Jan 09 00:38:34 sweet ! thanks guys Jan 09 00:39:29 * egaudet is working on tux racer Jan 09 00:40:02 I have it almost working, it comes on the screen but not landscaped Jan 09 00:40:30 rwhitby, egaudet: give me a htpasswd entry. :) Jan 09 00:40:42 So is anyone working on glGears? Jan 09 00:41:08 dBsooner: you're assuming that I need a login on that site ;-) Jan 09 00:41:17 rwhitby: Im assuming you'll want one Jan 09 00:41:23 egaudet: you mix up your viewport resolutions? Jan 09 00:41:30 dBsooner: yeah, probably Jan 09 00:41:35 exactly. ;) Jan 09 00:41:37 heading home. bialw Jan 09 00:42:38 what was that open source game that was based off of total annihilation? Jan 09 00:42:44 nevermind its TA Spring Jan 09 00:50:51 zsoc, no I don't think so Jan 09 00:51:04 http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/208/7407170060.jpg Jan 09 00:51:06 let me check though Jan 09 00:51:12 Not even palm knows whether it's pixie or pixi Jan 09 00:52:09 en0x: you ever get to check the make stage for setting up cross compiling? Jan 09 00:55:48 I just peeled the stock plastic screen cover off my pre for the first time ever and i got it on launch day hah Jan 09 00:55:55 grandma'n it Jan 09 00:58:50 elpollodiablo1: cross-compile.git has been updated yesterday. git pull ; make clobber ; make Jan 09 01:00:41 * rwhitby bbl Jan 09 01:01:13 @AnOutsider, are you the creator of the datpiff app? Jan 09 01:01:52 I am Jan 09 01:02:12 How's the development coming? Jan 09 01:03:49 so im getting a divide by 0 error Jan 09 01:03:49 hmm Jan 09 01:03:55 rwhitby: thanks for that info I will see what I can do with it. I might be back in later for some help Jan 09 01:03:57 when ia ctually have time to work on it, it... goes haha Jan 09 01:04:37 anyone have the appcat feeds urls? Jan 09 01:04:41 dont see it on dev.palm Jan 09 01:05:05 so have you guys been seeded 1.4 yet :P Jan 09 01:05:09 rwhitby: looks like after your tweaks to the toolchain make stage works, thanks! Jan 09 01:05:16 when running say a shell script that launches a native app from an Icon similar to launching doom, how would I have it set up so it runs as root/sudo? Jan 09 01:06:27 any ideas? Jan 09 01:06:34 elpollodiablo1: how would you set it up that it doesn't? Jan 09 01:07:06 I guess you are right, I wasnt thinking they would allow it to lauch apps as root Jan 09 01:07:19 AnOutsider: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed Jan 09 01:07:23 for security reasons but I guess that is the only way they could do it Jan 09 01:07:57 zsoc: thanks Jan 09 01:08:23 hmm - the left side of my gesture area has stopped responding Jan 09 01:11:43 thanks rod Jan 09 01:12:30 looks like apps do show up in the beta feeds Jan 09 01:12:33 guess i should pull it Jan 09 01:12:51 SDL terminal is getting pretty sweet Jan 09 01:13:07 whos working on that? Jan 09 01:13:13 brilliant idea Jan 09 01:13:19 me Jan 09 01:13:50 awesome, can't wait to check it out! Jan 09 01:14:09 someone should port blender game engine heh Jan 09 01:14:24 i'm pretty sure it'd be a ton of work tho Jan 09 01:15:11 phew - looks like it was software glitch only Jan 09 01:16:13 rwhitby, I noticed saw your tweet asking opinions on whether or not preware should include the app catalog apps... did that ever come to a vote? Jan 09 01:16:46 jjcarter: vote? I did it overnight. Jan 09 01:16:57 lol Jan 09 01:17:01 vote... for lack of a better word Jan 09 01:17:05 (well, got an initial version of the feeds ready) Jan 09 01:17:06 im not exactly sure how i connect the terminal up with bash though ;) Jan 09 01:17:07 or python Jan 09 01:17:11 or what ever shell u want Jan 09 01:17:53 rwhitby, you included all 3 feeds I assume? Jan 09 01:26:17 rwhitby PuffTheMagic everyone else -- hi hi Jan 09 01:26:24 rwhitby I found your slug replacement. Jan 09 01:26:36 Rick_work: did you give the guy my email address? Jan 09 01:26:45 ugh silly palm their feeds list has a typo Jan 09 01:26:46 jjcarter: yes Jan 09 01:26:55 rwhitby no. but I will Jan 09 01:27:37 Rick_work: please do - let him know other vendors like QNAP and Synology are finding Optware to be very beneficial for sales. In fact, both those companies reference Optware on their official web sites. Jan 09 01:27:39 it was fun. Dir Marketing palm saw me in aisle as I was coming away from Iomega and said "Hi Rick" and we chatted for a minute, and he asked what I was doing there. Jan 09 01:27:55 So, I explained, and he said "Good, because mine is dying." :-) Jan 09 01:28:02 Rick_work: hi Jan 09 01:28:04 or words to that effect. Jan 09 01:28:05 lol Jan 09 01:28:18 Rick_work: hello Jan 09 01:28:34 PuffTheMagic: you don't connect the terminal with bash Jan 09 01:28:54 PuffTheMagic: you make it open a tty and run login Jan 09 01:29:07 or something like that Jan 09 01:29:16 Iomega iconnect, Marvell Kirkwood 1ghz, out of the box running nas, samba, some linux media server, all under a custom UI. should be a simple port. Jan 09 01:29:41 When I asked if ssh or telnet was enabled, he said ICNCOD -- I'm getting really tired of hearing ICNCOD Jan 09 01:29:45 destinal: i got SDL_terminal library working... and there is an example that creates a python emulator/shell Jan 09 01:29:45 PuffTheMagic: there's code in terminal Jan 09 01:29:50 Rick_work: Optware will work out of the box on kirkwood Jan 09 01:29:52 PuffTheMagic: awesome Jan 09 01:29:55 i will check that out Jan 09 01:29:57 * destinal goes to grab :) Jan 09 01:30:06 rwhitby that's what Tom said. He's very excited. Jan 09 01:30:22 The funny part was the amazon rep standing there listening to us. Jan 09 01:30:42 Rick_work: so you're now the nslu2-linux.org evangelist too? Jan 09 01:30:57 she said "so, are there a lot of people who would buy this for something like that? and I said that the email list had thousands on it... Jan 09 01:31:02 she lit up. Jan 09 01:31:13 Amazon pretty much sole source at release. $99. Jan 09 01:31:57 which is a pretty good price even as a consumer device. Jan 09 01:32:07 I could not get an answer about how much ram is in it. Jan 09 01:32:56 ICNCOD? "I can not comment on d???" Jan 09 01:33:08 I can neithr confirm or denby Jan 09 01:33:16 ah Jan 09 01:33:38 and "Good, because mine was dying" - mine what? Jan 09 01:33:48 lemketron-away: NSLU2 Jan 09 01:33:59 Ah. I have Linkstations Jan 09 01:34:14 hacked 160, and Live 500 Jan 09 01:34:23 (running mt-daapd) Jan 09 01:35:34 Rick_work: http://twitpic.com/x720k Jan 09 01:36:12 interesting Jan 09 01:36:20 PuffTheMagic: what version is /usr/lib/libSDL_ttf-2.0.so.0.6.3 is that 2.0 or 2.0.6.3 ? Jan 09 01:37:03 I'm getting two of thoe iomega devices on day one Jan 09 01:37:48 PuffTheMagic: nevermind .. duh, palm's site Jan 09 01:40:17 Error: SDL library video initialisation failed: No available video device. Jan 09 01:40:19 I fail Jan 09 01:43:24 Isn't iconnect just like that little plug-in wall-wort NAS gizmo that everyone got excited about recently? Jan 09 01:44:08 sheevaplug Jan 09 01:44:24 similar hardware Jan 09 01:44:41 same proc series Jan 09 01:44:50 new sheeva has wifi Jan 09 01:45:07 ah, right. I wondered why they left that out of the sheeva. Jan 09 01:45:19 http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Marvell-Plug-Computer-30-and-Armada-300-and-610/ Jan 09 01:45:21 but they're $99 trying to get to $49, it seems. how much is the other one? (sorry for the OT) Jan 09 01:45:40 iconnect list is 99.99 Jan 09 01:45:50 same as nslu2 Jan 09 01:46:12 (when it was released) Jan 09 01:46:32 Huh. I didn't really "get" those things, but now that my LinkStation is stuck inside the same box as my outdated 160gb drive, I "get" it... too bad I can't load up mt-daapd on my airport extreme. :-/ Jan 09 01:47:17 * jacques still mourns the nslu2. Jan 09 01:49:43 sure is quiet in here. I guess everyone is off building things. Jan 09 01:49:56 yes.. Jan 09 01:49:57 building things. Jan 09 01:49:58 or sleeping? Jan 09 01:50:02 er Jan 09 01:50:04 I mean burning.. Jan 09 01:50:20 or burning buildings Jan 09 01:50:27 jacques is that your real name? Jan 09 01:51:23 hmmm. is Palm aware of the typo in the RSS feed lists Jan 09 01:51:53 PuffTheMagic: heh, it hates that I don't have python Jan 09 01:52:03 yeah i didnt build that Jan 09 01:52:15 python is only needed for one of the examples Jan 09 01:52:16 ird: it's one of my real names, yes Jan 09 01:52:19 well 2 of them Jan 09 01:52:37 i removed the python shit from the configure stuff and reran automake/autoconf/libtoolize/autoreconf Jan 09 01:52:55 so i have the terminal2D workin Jan 09 01:53:00 whcih is basically useless Jan 09 01:53:11 the pyterm.cc is a python emulator shell Jan 09 01:53:26 so we could probably use that to get ideas on how to make a "linux terminal" Jan 09 01:53:32 Kyusaku: what typo? Jan 09 01:53:52 the web ddistribution link is wrong Jan 09 01:54:16 spinning rainbow shapes \o/ Jan 09 01:54:19 http://developer.palm.com/rss/D/appcatalog.rss.xml should be http://developer.palm.com/rss/W/appcatalog.rss.xml Jan 09 01:54:37 destinal: maybe just pipe it to a libbash ? Jan 09 01:54:38 :D Jan 09 01:54:43 D is the regular app feed Jan 09 01:55:00 jacques: I ask because I think it's a cool name. Jan 09 01:55:09 PuffTheMagic: sure Jan 09 01:55:15 heh not libbash Jan 09 01:55:20 :P Jan 09 01:55:43 we need to mix it with another real terminal program, as I thought Jan 09 01:55:47 or just get directdb going Jan 09 01:55:57 s/db/fb/ Jan 09 01:55:57 Kyusaku: where did you see it listed incorrectly? Jan 09 01:55:58 destinal meant: or just get directfb going Jan 09 01:56:06 ird: :-) Jan 09 01:56:29 jacques: are you French? Jan 09 01:56:50 destinal: it shouldnt be "that hard" to use this library Jan 09 01:56:53 lemketron: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed Jan 09 01:56:57 destinal: i just dont know a lot about pyts :D Jan 09 01:56:59 http://omploader.org/vMzc5Zw Jan 09 01:57:05 ^^ destinal screencap Jan 09 01:57:28 lemketron: "The Feeds", second row in first table Jan 09 01:57:29 cool Jan 09 01:57:38 that's a screen cap of destinal? he's hot Jan 09 01:57:39 so?? look at rxvt for the back half? or some other terminal that claims to be small but does the terminal emulation stuff? fbi/fbterm? Jan 09 01:58:06 ird: my father is cajun Jan 09 01:58:14 Ah, copy/paste bug in the web distribution link. Thanks, will pass it along. Jan 09 01:58:27 jacques: ah, I see Jan 09 01:59:21 looks like fbterm has a vterm lib Jan 09 01:59:21 :D Jan 09 01:59:26 that might be helpful Jan 09 01:59:29 heh Jan 09 01:59:33 anyone seeing MyFlashlight Jan 09 01:59:36 magically reinstall itself Jan 09 01:59:38 over and over? Jan 09 01:59:44 recently o_O Jan 09 02:00:17 PuffTheMagic: what's the consensus on the console/term stuff in the patch? Jan 09 02:00:26 zsoc: in the patch? Jan 09 02:00:48 lemketron HI HI HI Jan 09 02:00:56 great time at CES, you should have come. Jan 09 02:01:35 PuffTheMagic: oh that's sweeet. I use black on gray everywhere for terminals. Jan 09 02:01:40 PuffTheMagic: I thought we decided there was info in the webos-sdl patch? Jan 09 02:02:02 zsoc: yeah there is Jan 09 02:02:07 zsoc: but idk what is more work right now Jan 09 02:02:17 gotcha Jan 09 02:02:17 zsoc: porting vfb stuff from SDL to DFB Jan 09 02:02:22 or learning on how to use a pty Jan 09 02:02:32 and make a proper shell Jan 09 02:02:33 idk Jan 09 02:02:35 pty's are a pita Jan 09 02:02:51 ~jacques Jan 09 02:02:52 [jacques] running rxvt quite well on the tux, tho it requires a bit of mucking with ptys, or the master of NWS station codes Jan 09 02:02:54 destinal: you want my "modified" source to play with? Jan 09 02:02:56 Rick: I wish; maybe next year. Unfortunately some folks really want us to get cranking on the next sdk already. There's no rest for the SDK team. Jan 09 02:03:05 PuffTheMagic: sure Jan 09 02:03:15 what is GL/gl.h and GL/glu.h Jan 09 02:03:24 (We've been cranking out SDK release after SDK release for 14 months now.) Jan 09 02:03:26 openGL headers Jan 09 02:03:31 Dangit, everytime I install an app from Preware, Myflashlight reappears in my launcher... any ideas? Jan 09 02:03:40 destinal, use SDL_opengles.h Jan 09 02:03:47 lemketron we know. And we're greatful Jan 09 02:03:54 destinal: there's a glu in webos? Jan 09 02:04:02 jacques: not yet ;) Jan 09 02:04:05 jacques: no, something this term program wants Jan 09 02:04:09 destinal: http://omploader.org/vMzc5aA Jan 09 02:04:14 ah ok Jan 09 02:04:15 tbz2 Jan 09 02:04:40 I've seen some stuff - one is called glues (glu for es) Jan 09 02:04:50 Lemketron, as I walked around the show talking with vendors, and quizing people on stuff I think was neat, at almost every booth the journalists interviewing the vendor in question would then see my webos-internals badge and question me. Jan 09 02:04:57 destinal: i removed some GL stuff Jan 09 02:04:59 also Jan 09 02:05:03 we can add that back later Jan 09 02:05:07 when we port it to GLES Jan 09 02:05:09 :D Jan 09 02:05:12 GLESterm Jan 09 02:05:24 glu...hmm.. I wonder if we can extend glut support Jan 09 02:05:47 i want the pre plus on sprint :( Jan 09 02:06:02 Decimate: me too Jan 09 02:06:25 if my pre is sluggish at any point where the pre plus is not, ill be SO pissed. Jan 09 02:07:09 PuffTheMagic: everything works for me except libtool .. hmm Jan 09 02:07:14 libtoolize didn't help there Jan 09 02:07:24 what are u doing? Jan 09 02:07:44 libtoolize Jan 09 02:08:18 tried to ./configure and make since my paths are different Jan 09 02:08:28 is it sad that I want the pre plus because it has no center button? Jan 09 02:08:46 Kyusaku: a little bit Jan 09 02:08:47 it's ok to want one, but that's probably not the best reason. Jan 09 02:08:52 is the extra ram in the pre plus confirmed? or a rumor? Jan 09 02:08:54 cripes.. where is dropbear started from now? since some update recently I can't login via ssh any more. connects, but no authentication modes available. Jan 09 02:09:24 kyusaku: for example: would you rather have a pre w/o the button? or a pre plus with half the RAM and flash? Jan 09 02:09:34 Decimate: confirmed Jan 09 02:10:07 jacques: heh, I just prefer the gesture area to be smooth like that. The center button has screwed with my swiping pretty often. Jan 09 02:10:10 need. more. RAM. Jan 09 02:10:23 IM SO MAD Jan 09 02:10:42 if one of my friends gets a pre plus, i wont talk to them anymore. Jan 09 02:10:48 I haven't had too many performance issues with my regular pre Jan 09 02:10:50 Decimate: no use getting mad. this is how the world works. Jan 09 02:11:04 destinal: configure bitched about libtool? Jan 09 02:11:17 i wish i had the money to get a new pre whenever it came out Jan 09 02:11:18 what are the libtool errors ? Jan 09 02:11:21 AND switch to verizon Jan 09 02:11:28 and I came from a Treo 700wx for 2 years, I'm pretty comfortable with sluggish performance Jan 09 02:11:37 i dont really like verizon though :/ Jan 09 02:11:50 PuffTheMagic: so what besides ./configure and make should I normally need here? Jan 09 02:11:54 * jacques does a yum update, emerge --sync, and apt-get upgrade all at the same time. Jan 09 02:11:59 kind of ironic i switched from verizon to sprint to get the pre though. Jan 09 02:12:05 destinal: thats it Jan 09 02:12:13 destinal: i crosscompile so I set --host= Jan 09 02:12:31 do you think the double ram will cause a noticeable performance change? Jan 09 02:13:06 for my use case? yes. Jan 09 02:13:18 PuffTheMagic: http://webos-internals.pastebin.com/m1c6f3228 Jan 09 02:13:21 but some ppl would never notice Jan 09 02:13:35 looks like configure destroys libtool etc in process Jan 09 02:13:43 will apps launch super quicker? Jan 09 02:14:04 they will if they don't have to swap out others to get RAM Jan 09 02:14:08 destinal: run 'autoreconf; libtoolize; autoconf; automake" Jan 09 02:14:36 meaning if you have lots running at once, new apps will launch quicker with more ram Jan 09 02:15:07 its gotta help web browsing a lot Jan 09 02:15:21 KEYofRghh: yeah the web cache could be much larger Jan 09 02:15:38 biggest thing it will help is running flash inside browser. Jan 09 02:15:43 okay, i never have more than 3-4 Jan 09 02:15:59 i just hope our pre doesnt stay slow and the pre plus get faster. Jan 09 02:16:23 src/Makefile.am:3: Libtool library used but `LIBTOOL' is undefined Jan 09 02:16:23 src/Makefile.am:3: The usual way to define `LIBTOOL' is to add `AC_PROG_LIBTOOL' Jan 09 02:16:24 more RAM will really help native c++ building :-) Jan 09 02:16:34 c++ building Jan 09 02:16:35 wtf Jan 09 02:16:42 why are people building on their pre? Jan 09 02:16:45 jacques: lol, crosscompile Jan 09 02:16:50 sigh. Jan 09 02:16:52 sicko's Jan 09 02:17:01 must. resist. getting into it. Jan 09 02:17:05 why not? the question is never why. Jan 09 02:17:05 I locally built before my cross compile environment got happy Jan 09 02:17:07 now is easy Jan 09 02:17:15 jacques: what ever,,, waste all your time waiting for shit to compile Jan 09 02:17:17 except for puff's libtool thing Jan 09 02:17:31 destinal: idk why you are having this issue Jan 09 02:17:38 I love cross-compiling. I also love native building. especially as a way of checking the results of the cross-compile. Jan 09 02:17:42 you have to be able to fix that stuff somehow Jan 09 02:17:58 if i stop recieving OTA updates and the pre plus still gets em, ill leave palm forsure. Jan 09 02:19:11 decimate: why do you think that'll happen? The Pre and Pre Plus are identical devices, except for some cosmetic changes like storage size; no sense in supporting one and not the either. Jan 09 02:19:21 and not the other* Jan 09 02:19:28 jacques: it seems nappmgr or luna or some watchdog kills large builds of mine anyway Jan 09 02:19:54 Templarian: ping!!!!!!!!! Jan 09 02:19:56 destinal: you should probably make your compile a service, and start it like dropbear's sshd Jan 09 02:19:57 and if I kill lunasysmgr eventually the system reboots Jan 09 02:20:19 i have a feeling they will slowly move away from it. Jan 09 02:20:28 destinal: /sbin/start (yourservice) after adding /etc/event.d/(yourservice) Jan 09 02:20:51 you can copy the dropbear script, that basically just runs sshd and doesn't do anything else Jan 09 02:20:55 eh, don't see how that would be different than logging in and running it in a shell though Jan 09 02:21:02 would get killed just as much Jan 09 02:21:16 destinal: no, sshd doesn't get killed, it's run on my phone for weeks Jan 09 02:21:26 synackfin1: sshd doesn't take the whole phone Jan 09 02:21:39 I'm telling you, I'm running in a shell with a build and all of the sudden I get Jan 09 02:21:42 Killed Jan 09 02:21:42 $ Jan 09 02:21:59 s/$/#/ Jan 09 02:21:59 destinal meant: # Jan 09 02:22:03 lol Jan 09 02:22:13 destinal: try it with /etc/event.d/ ... I think the rules are different for pids that it launches itself Jan 09 02:22:13 destinal: that would happen a lot less if you had 512MiB RAM Jan 09 02:22:14 oom? Jan 09 02:22:31 destinal: the other possibility is that you run out of memory Jan 09 02:22:31 KEYofRghh: probably Jan 09 02:23:05 destinal: I don't think it's configured to use any swap space, so if you exhaust physical memory, all apps' mallocs start failing Jan 09 02:23:05 destinal: it's quite possible we could find a way to disable the watchdog which is rebooting the system (assuming that's what's happening) Jan 09 02:23:30 jacques: it's probably more likely malloc fail as synackfin1 mentioned Jan 09 02:23:32 PuffTheMagic: can you point me towards the GLSL parts of GLESterm (or whatever library you're using for the thing you're going to call that) so I can make me some vertex arrays? Jan 09 02:23:41 I thought there was swap but I may be wrong Jan 09 02:23:47 destinal: yeah in those situations I usually keep a watch on my virtual memory usage Jan 09 02:23:54 zsoc: i wouldnt worry abou tit Jan 09 02:23:57 thre is 128MiB swap Jan 09 02:24:01 yet Jan 09 02:24:08 i have some work to do before we port it to GLES Jan 09 02:24:43 unfortuately swap does not really work over NFS Jan 09 02:25:03 maybe NBD Jan 09 02:25:09 does need for speed run lagless on the pre? i havent gotten to try it out Jan 09 02:25:09 PuffTheMagic: just show me the code or point me to the lib. I need practice porting static lists to arrays anyway (since i feel i'll be doing it for anything i'm porting and may need to assist others doing the same) Jan 09 02:25:13 PuffTheMagic: have to commute but I'll jump back on this at home. sdl term would be nice Jan 09 02:25:39 zsoc: http://www.loria.fr/~rougier/sdl-terminal.html Jan 09 02:25:41 ty Jan 09 02:25:45 zsoc: look at the example Jan 09 02:25:49 PuffTheMagic: PONG! Jan 09 02:25:49 terminal3D Jan 09 02:26:14 Templarian: do you have the "The Tux" in a 320x480 sized image? Jan 09 02:26:17 PuffTheMagic: er, what's the advantage of GL terminal again? Jan 09 02:26:23 zsoc: hw accel Jan 09 02:26:34 ... i'm missing something. it's a terminal Jan 09 02:26:35 Which tux? Jan 09 02:26:35 Oh Jan 09 02:26:39 nevermind, i get it Jan 09 02:26:42 no cpu hit Jan 09 02:26:43 Templarian: THE tux Jan 09 02:26:47 the "cute one" Jan 09 02:26:50 that we use for everything Jan 09 02:26:57 the Webos Internals tux Jan 09 02:27:03 oh no 256x265 is the largest. Jan 09 02:27:10 thats fine Jan 09 02:27:18 send it this way please :D Jan 09 02:28:02 http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/6426/tuxicons.png Jan 09 02:28:29 thanks Jan 09 02:29:34 Templarian: isn't there an vector/SVG version .. that can raster as 320x480? Jan 09 02:29:41 and you have surely damned me by giving me an irc client on my phone :) Jan 09 02:29:47 destinal: do not drive and use wirc Jan 09 02:29:54 although crap, i just pinged him, heh Jan 09 02:30:15 synackfin1: yea sure convert the little guy to an SVG and resize. Jan 09 02:30:24 PuffTheMagic: here's an SVG, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Tux.svg Jan 09 02:30:39 synackfin1: that's the ugly tux. Jan 09 02:31:02 lol.. the "ugly" tux? okay, okay, it's not as cute, I agree Jan 09 02:31:02 someone vector the cute one Jan 09 02:32:47 cuter? http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/File:Tux.svg Jan 09 02:32:59 whoops, same one Jan 09 02:33:03 oh you want the on crack one? Jan 09 02:33:22 destinal-wirc: DRIVE Jan 09 02:33:35 lol, yeah I think they want the on-crack out one Jan 09 02:33:51 zsoc: how do u do keybindings with doom Jan 09 02:33:51 ? Jan 09 02:33:58 trying to test it out with this one Jan 09 02:34:10 atlanta: you mean you want to _change_ the key bindings? Jan 09 02:34:29 zsoc: well yea Jan 09 02:34:33 i just compiled a fresh copy Jan 09 02:34:40 and only a few keys works Jan 09 02:34:51 atlanta: the doom in git? I would love kay mapped for that Jan 09 02:35:04 I can only shoot and move sideways Jan 09 02:35:05 atlanta: i'm confused, you want to play with them for yourself or you want to _fix_ how broken it is? Jan 09 02:35:10 jacques: same Jan 09 02:35:13 really broken Jan 09 02:35:22 zsoc: i want to play with it Jan 09 02:35:24 learning Jan 09 02:35:31 so i can do the sccumvm Jan 09 02:36:26 atlanta: there's a few ways.. you can edit SDL/SDL_keysym.h (which is basically a terrible idea), or you can fix the problem with DOOM sdl keyboard interaction that causes strafe left to go turbo right and back to go turbo forward Jan 09 02:36:35 i dont know what that problem is, never looked into it hard enough Jan 09 02:37:36 Templarian: check this out Jan 09 02:38:05 http://omploader.org/vMzc5cg Jan 09 02:38:05 zsoc: for the preware package which method you guys used Jan 09 02:38:05 ? Jan 09 02:38:11 zsoc: http://omploader.org/vMzc5cg Jan 09 02:38:34 looks better on the pre Jan 09 02:38:42 atlanta: er.. originally i edited the header... but i think in the latest version we edit the .doomrc file Jan 09 02:39:04 Question; is there a reason that when webos quick install copies a file to /media it runs out of room... being that thats the area it copies .ipk's to on install. Won't it fail on large ipks? Jan 09 02:39:04 PuffTheMagic: so.. now i need to fix the gl stufF? lol Jan 09 02:39:15 ie somthing like 80mb? Jan 09 02:39:26 Klownicle: no one here works on webos quick install Jan 09 02:39:34 well obviously someone uses it ;) Jan 09 02:39:41 zsoc: should i try that Jan 09 02:39:41 ? Jan 09 02:39:50 But I figured as much, heh Jan 09 02:39:58 atlanta: well like i said, that's a terrible idea Jan 09 02:40:04 Klownicle: er, i can't remember the last time i used it? Jan 09 02:40:11 .rc Jan 09 02:40:15 Klownicle: If you stick around someone might know Jan 09 02:40:24 zsoc: what should i try correctly ? Jan 09 02:40:27 Klownicle: otherwise try the forums Jan 09 02:40:39 atlanta: find the bug in the core SDL stuff, in doom's source Jan 09 02:40:40 All I know is when I choose to install a large file its quiting and fail. Jan 09 02:40:54 Hey guys, is it possible to update the radio software on my Pre to ger better reception? Jan 09 02:41:00 unless I precopy it to like /media/internal then do a manuel install Jan 09 02:41:02 zsoc: gotcha Jan 09 02:41:15 zsoc: imma try that aftre i play around with the header Jan 09 02:41:23 * atlanta isnt that great at all with C Jan 09 02:41:46 atlanta: i dont know c, you pick it up after debuging a few hundred things Jan 09 02:42:07 :-) Jan 09 02:42:11 Klownicle: thats an interesting bug, you could try jason's email/gtalk Jan 09 02:42:15 dont even see the SDL folder Jan 09 02:42:17 wierd Jan 09 02:42:23 I will have to do that Jan 09 02:42:25 atlanta: 1 sec, i'll get you started Jan 09 02:42:26 just need to find his email first Jan 09 02:42:36 Klownicle: probably on his profile on pc.net forums Jan 09 02:42:41 zsoc: thanks bud Jan 09 02:43:06 Thanks ill take a look. Jan 09 02:43:17 hmm, rwhitby hasn't updated cross-compile.git in 23 hours. I hope he's feeling OK Jan 09 02:43:46 jacques: higher priority for me: http://twitpic.com/x720k Jan 09 02:44:10 just got last updated time working Jan 09 02:44:34 rwhitby: good stuff Jan 09 02:44:35 nice Jan 09 02:45:18 rwhitby: what exactly is the palm beta feed? Jan 09 02:45:25 rwhitby: nice Jan 09 02:45:39 danstah: http://bit.ly/palm-catalog-feed Jan 09 02:45:45 atlanta: sorry got distracted, 1 sec Jan 09 02:46:37 zsoc: its ok my man working on your time Jan 09 02:46:55 rwhitby: can you say what the one beta app is Jan 09 02:47:09 did egaudet ever get his gles 1.1 stuff working ? Jan 09 02:47:25 danstah: you can see for yourself at http://ipkg.preware.org/feeds Jan 09 02:47:39 bpadalino: yep! :-) Jan 09 02:47:55 jacques: nice - was it just the viewport he needed ? Jan 09 02:47:59 rwhitby: thanks Jan 09 02:48:15 bpadalino, no Jan 09 02:48:20 yes no ? Jan 09 02:48:25 rwhitby: When will it be released? Jan 09 02:48:37 Senk_: when it's ready Jan 09 02:48:38 bpadalino: SDL_GL_SetAttribute(SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MAJOR_VERSION, 1); SDL_GL_SetAttribute(SDL_GL_CONTEXT_MINOR_VERSION, 1); Jan 09 02:48:42 SDL by default sets egl in 2.0 Jan 09 02:48:43 re all Jan 09 02:48:47 and you need that above to set it to 1.1 Jan 09 02:48:49 ahhhh Jan 09 02:48:51 I just noticed that the Feeds page mentions something about apps on freshmeat Jan 09 02:48:51 very nice Jan 09 02:48:51 (after SDL_Init) Jan 09 02:48:56 has anyone used sprint's wifi access before? Jan 09 02:49:01 Does preware have ipk installs without the use of a feed yet? Jan 09 02:49:03 how long did it take for you to find that ? Jan 09 02:49:05 atlanta: the answer is, in 3 minutes of grepping, i'm not sure where to start. maybe st_stuff.c? Jan 09 02:49:11 dang. I keep answering thinking egaudet isn't here and he pops up Jan 09 02:49:24 I was in tokyo yesterday and saw that sprint had wifi access available but was not able to get access. Jan 09 02:49:30 zsoc: ok let me check it out Jan 09 02:49:32 egaudet: if I'd known you were around I would have let you respond for yourself :-) Jan 09 02:49:36 hehe, that big flashy X on top of my screen brings me back when someone says my name :P Jan 09 02:49:44 heh Jan 09 02:49:57 egaudet: so you have a gles 1.1 demo on the wiki Jan 09 02:49:58 ? Jan 09 02:50:04 spinning cube ? :) Jan 09 02:50:07 jacques, that's quite alright, you put the info up faster than I could have typed it out :P Jan 09 02:50:23 * jacques likes copy and paste. Jan 09 02:50:39 bpadalino, no my testgl port got lost so I moved on to tuxracer Jan 09 02:50:49 neato Jan 09 02:51:09 well I should say tux "rider" since I'm using the iphone port Jan 09 02:51:18 rwhitby: Will we get a notification to upgrade? Whats the latest Preware version? I got 0.9.12 Jan 09 02:51:19 and I'm confident this will be working tonight Jan 09 02:51:20 PuffTheMagic: did you figure out how to disable the rounded corners? Jan 09 02:51:36 Terminal could benifit from them being removed also. Jan 09 02:51:54 Templarian: oh that's a good question Jan 09 02:52:12 egaudet: very cool Jan 09 02:52:15 atlanta: also g_game.c and m_misc.c both have references to keyboard inputs (and strafeleft, which is one of the issues) Jan 09 02:52:22 Senk_: Preware will give an update when it's ready Jan 09 02:52:27 * Templarian goes back to watching tv online. Jan 09 02:53:32 zsoc: thanks Jan 09 02:53:35 testing it out now Jan 09 02:53:37 Templarian: bigger version of Tux with screwdriver? Jan 09 02:53:48 looks like the keybindings are in hex so thats cool Jan 09 02:53:53 time to learn this ish Jan 09 02:54:21 why does my volume turn itself up and down Jan 09 02:54:21 autpo Jan 09 02:55:48 atlanta: keybindings are in ascii decimal, if i remember correctly Jan 09 02:55:52 i could be wrong tho Jan 09 02:55:59 rwhitby: if it's of the cartoon one, I think I have laying around, will check later. Jan 09 02:56:19 Templarian: the one at the top left of webos-internals.org Jan 09 02:59:26 well, I answered my own question. sprint apparently offers wifi access to mobile broadband customers for the record. Jan 09 02:59:38 zsoc: oh ok Jan 09 02:59:45 let me look again Jan 09 02:59:50 i was looking at cheat codes **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 09 02:59:57 2010